Inline 4

[Shiroth]

Before I begin, This WILL be a really slow build. Possibly an absurd amount of mistakes also... (This will be my learning build)

So awhile ago, I made a casting for an inline 4. It did not turn out the best, but I decided to roll with it anyway.
Yesterday, I got a little bit of time to putter around in my garage and ended up digging out the casting and started working.
Shortly after starting, my mill decided that the belt wasn't good enough anymore and promptly retired it.
So a few hours of today was spent installing the spare belt.




I managed to roughly cut it down square and ready to boar out. Still need to finish it to the proper size.
Filed it a bit and slipped a few times.
I will have to go get some steel and cast iron at some point.
Overall it will be 1.25" bore and 1.5" stroke.



Will have to figure out a way to clean it up a bit (suggestions welcome  )
More castings to make.
Depending on how this adventure goes, I might have to use the same castings and make a V8 design.

[Roger B]

I don't work with castings, however there are plenty on here who do and I wish you every success      I also have some long term builds 

[AlexS]

Cool casting, looping good! And 120cc engine pretty big engine.
Will follow along.

[Jo]

Nice Casting 

Is it going to be a water cooled block? Have you already sketched out the design or are you scaling up/modifying something else to provide a new engine design? 

Jo

[Shiroth]

Nice Casting 

Is it going to be a water cooled block? Have you already sketched out the design or are you scaling up/modifying something else to provide a new engine design? 

Jo

It will be water cooled.
Completely my own design. I wanted to do the casting as I found it interesting. I have been printing out molds to use for it. The latest set I made is a bit difficult to to release from the sand but is functional, I did have one attempt at the crank case top half on Saturday, but it ended up with a bubble in a bad spot. (Will have to adjust my technique)

I will Be attempting again today, but I will be sure to take a picture of the failed try before it gets melted. As this build goes along, I may clean up my molds that work the best to get a nicer finish for another future "rebuild" if successful.

Still finding it difficult to acquire some cast iron, 1144 and W1 drill rod in my area for this project.

[Shiroth]

After My second attempt with slightly different method, I still resulted with a bubble in the same place.
But not quite as bad as the first one.

I will most likely recast without any cores as a solid block to prevent the issue again and save myself a little time.
I am sure that I could use it regardless of the bubble, but I think I will redo it solid third time around.

Attempt #1 Poured straight into the top with the mold placed at an angle up to the vent.


Attempt #2 Decent outside


Attempt #2 Feed up through the bottom at a slower pour rate and angled up to the vent.


I will fiddle around with it and eventually I might learn something.

[Alyn Foundry]

Hi Shiroth.

It's difficult to tell from your photos but are you using the Cope ( top box half ) to cast in?

If you were to use the Drag ( bottom box half ) the sump areas would be facing upwards and any gasses generated could escape via the split line.

Those sumps could also be " self codding " ( using the pattern inside shape ) to create the semicircular shape rather than an additional core. Using this method can allow the use of a vent wire, from the Cope top, after Strickling to help release gasses.

The Black coloured tinge? Are you using " oil " bonded sand?

Kind regards, Graham.

[Shiroth]

Hi Shiroth.

It's difficult to tell from your photos but are you using the Cope ( top box half ) to cast in?

If you were to use the Drag ( bottom box half ) the sump areas would be facing upwards and any gasses generated could escape via the split line.

Those sumps could also be " self codding " ( using the pattern inside shape ) to create the semicircular shape rather than an additional core. Using this method can allow the use of a vent wire, from the Cope top, after Strickling to help release gasses.

The Black coloured tinge? Are you using " oil " bonded sand?

Kind regards, Graham.

Yes, I was doing it upside down =) with wire thin vent holes and my main overflow vent with the inlet.
I opted to do it upside down as I was adding the cores to the bottom half (top half upside down), cores were same sand to avoid having to use my C02
If I incorporate the "Core" sections into the main mold in a 2 part system, I should be able to pack it and do it right side up =)
Instead of having them placed in as I was doing.

I thank you for your input, I didn't think it would be an issue upside down, but from what you said, it does make sense now =)
You gave me some inspiration to try at it some more before I give in and do it solid.
It will require some more printing and design work, but it is part of the fun.


My sand is bentonite and silica. I would like to try oil sand at some point though.
I don't know much about the technical terms for a lot of this.
As for the black tinge, I have no clue =)

[Alyn Foundry]

I've been founding for over 40 years now, in the beginning virtually every casting was a " waster " in foundry parlance.

Your casting effectively becomes a roof, trapping the fume from the core. By using the " Drag " for your casting you can ensure a greater " head " of metal is available to reduce the risk of " shrink " and porosity.

Please don't hesitate to ask questions, there's quite a few members here that already have the " T " shirt.

Kind regards, Graham.

[mnay]

Did you build the pink jeep?
Is it your own design or did you have plans for it
Looks neat.
Mike

[Shiroth]

I've been founding for over 40 years now, in the beginning virtually every casting was a " waster " in foundry parlance.

Your casting effectively becomes a roof, trapping the fume from the core. By using the " Drag " for your casting you can ensure a greater " head " of metal is available to reduce the risk of " shrink " and porosity.

Please don't hesitate to ask questions, there's quite a few members here that already have the " T " shirt.

Kind regards, Graham.

Thanks, I am sure I could learn a lot from you guys 

Just finished adjusting my strategy and attempt #3, much easier to setup my sand and remove the molds this time around. Turned out fairly decent this time, though it did have a small imperfection in the center area. But I don't think it would be a huge deal.
I did take your advise and try it right way up this time.

I did manage to stay within temperature range, around 730. Not completely sure how accurate the heat gun is though, so I may have to get a probe.
In process of making the bottom half molds



Some small pitting..


"The Hole"

[Art K]

Looks like an interesting project. It's a good sized I4. I did build a single 1.125 X 1.1 But haven't done a multi cylinder yet. I don't have the equipment to do casting but I find someone else doing it interesting.
Art

[Shiroth]

Looks like an interesting project. It's a good sized I4. I did build a single 1.125 X 1.1 But haven't done a multi cylinder yet. I don't have the equipment to do casting but I find someone else doing it interesting.
Art

I find it very interesting to cast things. It doesn't really require a whole lot of equipment to do, I started off building a MacGyver flame thrower and a propane tank foundry with plaster, sand and pearlite..
then swapped out the plaster sand abomination for some fire bricks and kaowool.

Still requires a bit of work, but I will hold off until the bottom half is poured.


Sat them together to make it look like I did something..

[Shiroth]

Finished most of the molds a few days ago, sanded and painted for a bit better finish on them and to help release easier.

Attempted to cast the bottom half of the case today when the sand mold broke before I could get it together, retried with some screws embedded into the sand to help specific parts from causing trouble. Managed to get it all together and poured. Given the first round I wasn't hopeful on the result. But very unexpectedly, it turned out nearly perfectly, aside from some discoloration.. and some extra bonus material . . .

Next pour will be the head and if I find extra time to mess about, I may attempt to recast all of them again as a second set. Once I clean up the original molds and get them all painted

[mnay]

Those castings look great. 
I am following along.
Mike

[Shiroth]

Spend a bit of time drawing up my camshaft and crank shaft in my cad to make sure all my measurements are correct. Then decided to print them off for visual reference.
Cam shaft I changed up in my cad to make the printing better in my opinion. Made all the parts slide onto a 1/4" key.

Cam has a .125 lift, Unsure if that will be good or not. Could appreciate some input on the matter.

Crank shaft I had planned to use 2" 1144 but that limits the journal's to being .5" thick, Again, I would like some input or suggestions.

Everything is subject to change =)

[Roger B]

The necessary valve lift depends on the valve diameter. 1/4 the diameter is enough. The journal diameter depends to an extent on how hard you are going to work the engine. For a 'display' engine 0.5" will be fine. If it is to be used for competition a bit bigger might be good.

[Shiroth]

The necessary valve lift depends on the valve diameter. 1/4 the diameter is enough. The journal diameter depends to an extent on how hard you are going to work the engine. For a 'display' engine 0.5" will be fine. If it is to be used for competition a bit bigger might be good.

Thanks, so a .5 valve should be my max.

As for the journals I may need to go larger as I do not have a specific plans as of yet for it, but I would not want to limit it to being a shelf toy.

Was also pondering double valves, but as of right now it is just a thought. maybe something in the future.

[Shiroth]

After pouring the bottom half (oil pan), with a small internal part. I noticed that if I intended to go larger with the journals, my pan was cut too short and wouldn't allow for the extra size crank.

So I played around a little bit with my method in which I was casting. Turns out I learned a little bit more this time around as my new pan turned out with a HUGE finish difference!

I will most likely end up creating new molds at some point to allow for extra material.

Small part turned out good




New pan with a much better finish then my original castings, I beat it with a 5lbs dead blow hammer to pack the sand more then I had been before. the core is slightly off, but it is not a problem as it can be cleaned out.

[Shiroth]

Finally got around to ordering some material! After a fair bit of scouring around hunting metal shops with no success, I finally ended up on mcmaster.com
Though it is a US shop, the inventory is nuts! and still cheaper then sourcing some of the materials in Canada I have come across.

So with any luck, I should be able to get my order soon.

**********************
EDIT.. They canceled my order on me... Not accepting orders unless it is for a business or school. 

[Shiroth]

Finally got around to ordering some material! After a fair bit of scouring around hunting metal shops with no success, I finally ended up on mcmaster.com
Though it is a US shop, the inventory is nuts! and still cheaper then sourcing some of the materials in Canada I have come across.

So with any luck, I should be able to get my order soon.

**********************
EDIT.. They canceled my order on me... Not accepting orders unless it is for a business or school. 

Reordered with my business name, delivered my 12" 1144 and 6 feet of 0.75 W1 drill rod today. Expecting the cast iron in about 1-2 weeks. Downside is that I wanted to start with the cast iron, then move to the crank after more work on my casted parts..

I did end up casting the head twice, first one I wasn't happy with, second one had a questionable spot that may or may not interfere. haven't taken any pictures of it though, but I will when I get something done with it.

Also did a little to the top half of my crank case. mostly waiting for a specific tap to arrive..

[crueby]

Finally got around to ordering some material! After a fair bit of scouring around hunting metal shops with no success, I finally ended up on mcmaster.com
Though it is a US shop, the inventory is nuts! and still cheaper then sourcing some of the materials in Canada I have come across.

So with any luck, I should be able to get my order soon.

**********************
EDIT.. They canceled my order on me... Not accepting orders unless it is for a business or school. 

That is bizarre - they have always sold to individuals worldwide in the past, though their terms/conditions state that they will evaluate non-US orders for whether they can be filled,  certain items have export restrictions but not raw metals. Must be some odd export or tax thing. Glad you were able to re-order as business!

[Shiroth]

Spent a fair amount of time over this weekend just drilling and tapping holes, 40 holes and 20 holes tapped.
I will have to go out and get a bunch of bolts now so I can bolt everything together.

Next I will have to bore out for my sleeves, and drill out the case for the crank.
It has occurred to me that I do not own a Chamfer / Debur / countersink bit to clean up my holes, yet... I will be sure to add it to my box sooner then later.
Slowly getting farther from nothing to something.

I should have used a smaller endmill to drill out the right size for the bolt head, something that I overlooked at the time.

[Shiroth]

Went for a drive today to get some bolts, Bolted it all together to make sure it all fits and there is no problems.
Other then that I have not done anything except take more pictures of it all put together.
So I figured I would post the pictures, everyone likes pictures!





Got a little marked with the key...

[propforward]

We do like pictures - and it looks mighty fine indeed. This will be very fun to follow along.

[Admiral_dk]

Nice progress 

Funny to see the 'lines from the 3D printer' on the cylinders - will that be painted or have another kind of finish later ?

Per

[Shiroth]

We do like pictures - and it looks mighty fine indeed. This will be very fun to follow along.

Thanks, it has been quite amusing thus far just casting the parts. I will have to draw up some gaskets for wifey to cut out with her Cricut.
I will need some shim or gasket in place to drill out for the crank.

Many things to do and I find it difficult to decide on..

Nice progress 

Funny to see the 'lines from the 3D printer' on the cylinders - will that be painted or have another kind of finish later ?

Per

Very slow progress, but It is slowly getting there. Most likely I will give it a light sanding and paint, I am not familiar with any finishing techniques. Not sure how you guys get the nice finishes.
But I do like the cast look, maybe I will sand blast it or something just to clean up some of the print details.

[crueby]

Following along, quite a substantial engine, nice proportions.   

[Shiroth]

Following along, quite a substantial engine, nice proportions.   

Decided to go a little larger for my first one, was hoping to make it a little easier working with slightly larger parts.

Hopefully it should get a bit more interesting when the cast iron shows up.

[Shiroth]

After contemplating a few different methods, I have decided to turn to the forum for suggestions. I will have to drill a 7/8 hole through the case for the crank and bushings. Unfortunately I do not have any drill bits long enough and my boring bar might also not be long enough. Thought about making something with my new 3/4 drill rod to do the job. But figured I would ask here before I try something and completely mess it all up.

7.5" long so I am not sure how accurate any of the methods I am thinking of would be.

Spent a good portion of today alone just thinking about it at work, and awhile longer before hand trying not to think about it.
I am confident there will be more situations like this I will have to ask for opinions on before I do something.

I appreciate any opinions or ideas 


Also, bonus picture =)

[Admiral_dk]

I seem to remember that Mike did what you should consider a few months back on the Mercedes build - with great result .... So take a look and see if it inspires you 

[Shiroth]

I seem to remember that Mike did what you should consider a few months back on the Mercedes build - with great result .... So take a look and see if it inspires you 

It is a very interesting idea, I might actually have to do something similar.
I will spend a bit of time thinking on it.

Thanks for your reply

[bent]

Don't ask me (I'm sticking to single cylinders for now), but I do agree with the Admiral that Mike's line boring jig setup looked pretty cool.

[Shiroth]

Don't ask me (I'm sticking to single cylinders for now), but I do agree with the Admiral that Mike's line boring jig setup looked pretty cool.

The main problem is that I do not have a hole already, But I am thinking of drilling a smaller hole as accurate as I can from both ends and go from there.
Maybe work up to a size that will be manageable with the same concept.

[Shiroth]

So I did end up drilling through with a few different bits, Finished with 3/4"
It ended up maybe 1/64 off in the center, but it is close enough. My ability to perfectly align things is not quite there yet, possibly lacking some toys to make life easier.

One of the next missions would be to build that boring jig.

[Shiroth]

I managed to have a bit of free time, So I opted to start on the head, since it was just sitting there looking at me.
That and I have to dial the lathe in, I haven't used the tail stock since I got it, so I am sure it will need to be adjusted.

Cut the head to size and squared up the bottom and top.
Drilled some small holes in the centers for alignment purposes if needed. (haven't decided yet to use the rotary table or straight passes)
Drew out where the piston and sleeve will line up, visual reference.

I notice I am jumping around from one thing to the next before completing anything. Mostly I am just doing the "easy" stuff that I am comfortable doing in the time I get to play.
I like to think of it as practicing for the harder stuff.

[Shiroth]

Its been a fairly hot week, so after work I couldn't muster any energy to mess about much.

My cast Iron showed up and I did mess around with the lathe for a bit, trying to get the tailstock centered. But ultimately didn't complete the task yet.

Bored out for my sleeves and worked on the Head a bit. Not too much but slowly getting there.

[Shiroth]

Update for those who were following this.
It has been a little while so I finally got around to the forum to make this update..

I will keep the details short as I am at a loss of words
It has been a rough few months. My mother was diagnosed with far too many forms of cancer early this year. She was originally given 3 months, but stuck it out until October 19th.

Since then I have slowly been trying to get myself back at it and keep the old man company.

I have not made much of any progress on the build, but hopefully I can get back at it soon.

[propforward]

I’m following along. That is very tough and I’m sorry to hear about it. Sincere condolences, and I wish you all the best.

[Kim]

Very sorry to hear about your mother. A difficult time in many ways.
Kim

[Admiral_dk]

So that Dammed decease claimed another victim 

You have my full sympathy and condolences to your family.

Best wishes

Per

[Art K]

Sorry to hear about your mom. It is good you can spend the time with your dad though.
Art

[Shiroth]

I thank you guys for the responses. It has taken me well over a day to try to respond to this thread again. Socially awkwardness makes it extremely difficult.

As for the build, there was a sliver of progress after the last post and a bit more the last few days.
I attempted to fit the sleeves oversized with the oven and freezer... failed miserably and got it stuck about an inch in and almost had a panic attack.. Managed to get it out before there was a real problem though.

Then decided to slip fit it with some loctite that I do not yet have, once it shows up this week I should be able to put them in and bore them out. Opted to bore them out installed, seems easier to get the same size if I do all 4 at the same time.

Other then that, many holes have been drilled in the head.. with a bunch more to go...

[Shiroth]

Made and installed the valve seats and valve guides.
Made 1 test valve to make sure they all lined up good, but the finish is terrible on it. so I wont be using it.

Thinking of making the valves in 2 pieces. wasn't sure if anyone has done it on here or not, but I figured it might be easier to work with.

I have come to the conclusion that I will have to give the internal of the block a good cleaning to remove the sand that is still lingering before to put the liners in.

Getting closer and closer to the dreaded camshaft and crank.. one small bit at a time..
Still have some prep work before I attempt the cam shafts though.

[propforward]

Very nice progress and some lovely work.

[john mills]

How tight a fit did you have you could have relieved in the centre  would make it easer to get in with full size engines we always finished machined after fitting.
John

[Shiroth]

How tight a fit did you have you could have relieved in the centre  would make it easer to get in with full size engines we always finished machined after fitting.
John

The size I attempted was .003 if I remember correctly.
I think that the finish is what gave me the most problems though. I also don't have a press to make life easier.
Making pretty holes isn't in my skill set yet =)

I will eventually give it another go on another build. Most likely a single cylinder engine at that point.

[john mills]

when i fitted sleeves to about 3" bore thin cast iron  into alloy blocks did not use much more than that heated the bock to it would make moisture sizzle then could check the size to see it had clearance then the sleeve would slide in to sit on the step almost drop if it stops
moving it will quickly heat up and be stuck.with only a short area of contact it can have a tighter fit than when it contacts all the way.
if you have to press it takes to long and will heat up and be tight again .to press in a smooth finish and plenty of oil it should go in.
john
 

[Roger B]

Just take it slowly  You are not building a racing engine, Loctite or similar will be fine to hold the sleeves without distortion. I tend to make my valves from stainless steel screws/bolts. this reduces the amount of machining.

 

[Shiroth]

Just take it slowly  You are not building a racing engine, Loctite or similar will be fine to hold the sleeves without distortion. I tend to make my valves from stainless steel screws/bolts. this reduces the amount of machining.

Thanks. didn't even think about using a bolt / screw, Though I did end up with 6 feet of 3/4 W1 drill rod and a pile of small 0.109-0.12 rods that were cheap enough. =) I may just use the small rods and make it 2 piece, rods are already nice and smooth =)

[AlexS]

Thinking of making the valves in 2 pieces. wasn't sure if anyone has done it on here or not, but I figured it might be easier to work with.

Very cool work!

Making valves from two parts is doable. The nice thing is that you can order the valve stem with fitting tolerance. And solder both parts silver.

[AlexS]

Just take it slowly  You are not building a racing engine, Loctite or similar will be fine to hold the sleeves without distortion. I tend to make my valves from stainless steel screws/bolts. this reduces the amount of machining.

Also a big + is that bolts or the head are forged on it. What about making a crankshaft out of two big bolts?