Author Topic: adequate boiler???  (Read 6483 times)

Offline scc

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adequate boiler???
« on: July 03, 2021, 09:27:17 PM »
Some time ago I aquired a small vertical boiler, it has been fettled now and again ever since. It is now tested to 80psi.  I connected it to my Charlesworth engine via a short, unlagged copper pipe.  When I built the engine I was sure that it would  just run on air and then sit in a case on the shelf. I failed to seal many joints properly :facepalm2:  connected to boiler.... steam every where!
I need to re-assemble with proper gaskets, etc.    Before I do that I need to know if the boiler is up to the job.
It is 3" dia x 3" tall.   It has 14 vert tubes, each 4mm dia plus a central flue 12mm dia. There is a (superheater?) coil in the top.
The Charlesworth is 1" bore x 2" stroke so  opinions please :help:        Terry

Offline steamer

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Re: adequate boiler???
« Reply #1 on: July 03, 2021, 09:41:26 PM »
Generally speaking....not by a long shot.   Perhaps for short runs at very slow speeds...but it's not going to be fun trying to get boiler feed water into that little boiler fast enough to feed that engine, at say ...80 psi
"Mister M'Andrew, don't you think steam spoils romance at sea?"
Damned ijjit!

Offline scc

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Re: adequate boiler???
« Reply #2 on: July 03, 2021, 09:45:43 PM »
Thanks for the rapid reply.    You have confirmed my suspicions :'(      My current project is the 2" x 2" Clarkson so even worse!
   Terry

Offline steamer

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Re: adequate boiler???
« Reply #3 on: July 03, 2021, 09:50:34 PM »
Thanks for the rapid reply.    You have confirmed my suspicions :'(      My current project is the 2" x 2" Clarkson so even worse!
   Terry

Link it up and run it really slow...it will work for a few minutes...but as a comparison the boiler in my boat  (a compound,  1.5 x 3.0 x 2.5) with a 13.5 sq foot water tube at 550 rpm...is JUST keeping up with it and Ive got flames at the stack!...
"Mister M'Andrew, don't you think steam spoils romance at sea?"
Damned ijjit!

Offline scc

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Re: adequate boiler???
« Reply #4 on: July 03, 2021, 09:56:19 PM »
Nuff said!

Offline john mills

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Re: adequate boiler???
« Reply #5 on: July 03, 2021, 11:22:29 PM »
you said you have connected up  while i would think it is to small for that engine to do much  try running it now you have it connected and see what it does.
                                            John   

Offline steamer

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Re: adequate boiler???
« Reply #6 on: July 03, 2021, 11:39:34 PM »
you said you have connected up  while i would think it is to small for that engine to do much  try running it now you have it connected and see what it does.
                                            John

Agreed!!!   Should be interesting....
"Mister M'Andrew, don't you think steam spoils romance at sea?"
Damned ijjit!

Offline Jasonb

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Re: adequate boiler???
« Reply #7 on: July 04, 2021, 07:13:58 AM »
So much will depend on what you mean by "run" If you want it doing work then that is a totally different need to wanting to run it for display.

As per your Clarkson thread one of those can be made to work by just blowing into it so steam volume and pressure does not have to be high when ticking over at say 40rpm doing nothing, the horizontal will use even less with it's smaller volume. My engines usually hardly lift the regulator needle off zero so you will only need say 5psi and the slower they tick over the less the volume of steam needed.

On the other hand as the work load goes up so does the pressure needed on the ends of the piston to make the engine do that work and very likely the speed will have to be a lot higher too.

Looking at my old Stuart catalogue they suggest their 504 boiler for the same dimensioned Victoria which was a  3.5 x 10 horizontal with a simple burner and small heating surface. This is not marked as a display only boiler but for the similar displacement beam engine they say a 2.5 x 8 horizontal boiler will do. You don't say what burner you have on your boiler but a ceramic gas one would no doubt see it put out more then trying to keep up with coal firing. but worth giving it a go.

There is certainly no harm in giving it a go, I tend to use liquid gasket as that has no thickness so won't muck up any fits.

Offline Zephyrin

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Re: adequate boiler???
« Reply #8 on: July 04, 2021, 09:46:19 AM »
Your 1" x 2" (double acting ?) engine running at 100 rpm needs 2.5 litre of steam per minute, and with 2 bar at the pressure gauge, this corresponds to about 4 g of water per minute, so you can easily see the allowed running time...
If the burner can generate this amount of steam, there is no reason why a posh demo is not possible...

nothing can compare to a steam engine running on steam!

But you have to warm up the engine with an hot air gun at the start to reduce condensing, as the warming up with the steam alone will last for ages and use all the available steam !

Offline scc

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Re: adequate boiler???
« Reply #9 on: July 04, 2021, 10:04:38 AM »
Thanks for the inputs :cheers:    Terry

Offline steamer

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Re: adequate boiler???
« Reply #10 on: July 04, 2021, 03:01:52 PM »
Your 1" x 2" (double acting ?) engine running at 100 rpm needs 2.5 litre of steam per minute, and with 2 bar at the pressure gauge, this corresponds to about 4 g of water per minute, so you can easily see the allowed running time...
If the burner can generate this amount of steam, there is no reason why a posh demo is not possible...

nothing can compare to a steam engine running on steam!

But you have to warm up the engine with an hot air gun at the start to reduce condensing, as the warming up with the steam alone will last for ages and use all the available steam !

Yup  I suspect he'll empty the boiler getting it warmed up   ....but I'd still give it a go!....steam rules!
"Mister M'Andrew, don't you think steam spoils romance at sea?"
Damned ijjit!

Offline RReid

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Re: adequate boiler???
« Reply #11 on: July 04, 2021, 03:24:39 PM »
Quote
But you have to warm up the engine with an hot air gun at the start to reduce condensing, as the warming up with the steam alone will last for ages and use all the available steam !

Good idea. I'll have to try that next time I steam my steamer!
Regards,
Ron

Offline Zephyrin

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Re: adequate boiler???
« Reply #12 on: July 04, 2021, 07:10:40 PM »
here is an engine similar in size to yours, ( 3/4" x 2 1/4"); the pot boiler is a copper tube 1.5" dia and 4" long...heated by an alcohol burner with 3 wicks. wheather was cold in my garage, hence the steam everywhere!

https://photos.app.goo.gl/qJ4x6SK8JqAM6ecu8

Offline steamer

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Re: adequate boiler???
« Reply #13 on: July 04, 2021, 07:31:58 PM »
Sweeet!!!   That little boiler is putting out!......my boat swings a 16" x 18" 3 blade equipoise prop............
"Mister M'Andrew, don't you think steam spoils romance at sea?"
Damned ijjit!

Offline scc

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Re: adequate boiler???
« Reply #14 on: July 04, 2021, 10:16:14 PM »
Great set up!    I am encouraged :)  but don't wait up.........I have a lot on at the moment and need to find an inexpensive system to heat said boiler. (test was done by holding a blowtorch under it!!!)   I also have to rebuild/ seal the Charlesworth.  I will get there eventually.  Thanks all :cheers:     Terry