Lack of response to posts

[zeeprogrammer]

There seems to be at least two topics flowing in this thread.

1) The apparent decline of interest in the forum.
2) Receiving acknowledgement, whether by response posts, likes, thanks, etc.

With respect to the 1st, model engines is a small subset of the home machining hobby and the title of this forum makes me wonder if that's part of the problem.
Yes, additional sub-forums have been created and the chatterbox is filled with fascinating non-engine projects.
But engines are stressed to the point that some members have apologized for posting a build of a locomotive or ask permission to log an interesting non-engine topic.
I myself worried about posting a thread on a spinning wheel and tried to justify it as a finger treadle engine.

I confess I'm not a member here because of an interest in engines. (I do have an interest but not nearly to the level of many members here.)
I learn about machining here and even other subjects. The forum is full of teachers and helpers.

I never understood the complaints about lurkers or people who pop in with a question and are never seen again.
It's part of life. And, you never know when one of them decides this is for them and jumps in.
How many members started posting with..."I've been lurking for a while..."?

No I don't have any answers.

As for the 2nd item...

Marv mentioned the 'homemadetools' forum and the 'thanks' feature. I was just lurking on that forum the other night and noticed it.
Yes, I've lurked on there a number of times.
I like the thanks feature. I also like it because 'thanks' is more inclusive. How many times have you been told something you didn't like to hear but were grateful to know?
I understand the problem. Just like on other social media sites (and this forum is one) where people talk about how many likes they got or are bummed when they don't get enough.
Again, part of life.
But the thing that bothers me most is the concept of punishing the many because of the few.
Sure, there's going to be the person who spouts off about how many likes they got or argues. But that's not the case for the majority.
I deal with them by ignoring it.

Again, I have no answers. I really enjoy this forum and have learned an immense amount. I like the people.

A lot of work does go into putting together a post. But if all you're doing it for is to get acknowledgement then that's wrong.
Lack of acknowledgement is not lack of appreciation.
How many old threads have you come across that you found helpful or fascinating. Would you acknowledge it years after it was posted?

This is a free forum and free of pesky ads. Much appreciation and thanks for the admins.

My apologies. I hadn't realized I was standing on a soap box. I will go burn it now. 

BTW, as someone mentioned, posting a response revives a thread. I wouldn't want a 'like' or 'thank' feature to do that.
 

[Swarf Maker]

What a wonderfully balanced appraisal Zee.

[90LX_Notch]

Zee stated: “A lot of work does go into putting together a post. But if all you're doing it for is to get acknowledgement then that's wrong.”

While I agree with the spirit of that statement, I’ll offer another perspective.  Sometimes we need “a shot in the arm”.  When I was on the powerlifting team in college there were days that I just didn’t feel like going to the weight room.  I had stayed up late the night before studying or writing a paper and could easily justify not going.  However, I’d run across a teammate in my travels around campus who would inevitably ask if I was lifting that night.  It was that simple question that was enough get me to go.

Another “shot” is going to a show.  That always gets my enthusiasm going again to get back into the shop.  Unfortunately, COVID killed that.

-Bob

[Kim]

Well, Zee, that's a very well reasoned, thought-provoking post.

I couldn't agree more.

Personally, I like to share what I'm building and I find it enjoyable to share with others who appreciate the work and effort that go into making the things we do.  But I've made the decision that I was going to post to share, and not for accolades. My sharing isn't necessarily the master class that many other threads on this forum are.  Mine is more me sharing what I do, asking questions when I don't know, and hoping that others will point out better ways to do things so I'll learn.  And even point out where I doing stupid things that could get me hurt!  That has happened a time or two and I really appreciate the safety pointers from people!  I want to enjoy our hobby, but I want to do it safely, of course!  And I hope that others can learn from that too.

Having said all that, I also completely agree with your comment Bob.  A word of encouragement can really go a long way in how someone feels about what they're doing and can help people feel accepted as part of the group.

I also want to emphasize the point you made about lurkers.  While I'd love more people to post, I understand that there will always be lurkers.  I started as a lurker on this site before I joined & started posting.  I lurk on many other forums and never post.  I'm not a regular lurker, but I do read threads on other forums to learn.  So I understand that others will do that here, and I want to encourage that.  I WANT lurkers to be welcome.  I want them to feel so welcome that they'll even post eventually.  Maybe. If they want to.  Because in the end, you will get more out of the forum if you put something of yourself into it.  I know this first hand. I've learned SO much more by posting than I would by just reading.   But having said that, I still 'only lurk' on other forums.  Such is life.  I can't be fully committed to too many places.  And I chose THIS forum, NOT because it was engines only, but because the people were kind, helpful, and welcoming.  And there was not a lot of drama on this forum.  I loved that! And I still love that!

I too would like to see us be more open to non-engine builds.  As you said, they happen, but the feeling is that they are 'tolerated in moderation.  I'd like to see us change that feeling and make people feel welcome to post whatever they are building.  I hated that Chris felt he had to do his big Tonka RC truck build (sorry, I can't remember what it was really called) on a different forum.   But he did.  He posted a few teasers here.  But that broke my heart.  And we've had people post Tanks and other things and I LOVE it!  I would like to see us encourage this!  Would it help increase our contributors?  I think so.  Would it increase our readership?  I'm sure it would. That is the one change I'd like to see us make.

Sorry, guess I stole your soap box, Zee
Kim

[paul gough]

There seems to be a desire or need for some to be acknowledged for their contributions, with a number of ideas floated that may be worth considering by the powers that run this site. I would only suggest that there is an occasional need for people to be mindful of, supposedly, 'jocular' commentaries. Your 'familiararity'
may not be appreciated or your choice of a word could be off putting. I made a grave error in being too blunt to a young member about his 'Chinese' Mill and thank SCO for his rebuke in a PM. As a mild example, the previous post by Kim, uses the term 'lurker' to refer to inactive or quiescent people not manifest. We are an international forum, some words carry a nuance or inference in some cultures. This example could carry a negative connotation, I would think those that remain unobserved be termed an 'observer'. Applause to all contributors! My twopenny worth. Regards, Paul Gough.

[Daggers]

Zee & Kim  I read your comments several times, many excellent points made.
Paul your comments really hit the spot.
I am now probably regarded as a lurker, i read almost every post but i very rarely now leave reply's.
Being a engine novice i made the mistake of leaving a couple of rookie remarks, which prompted a couple of reply's which may not have meant much to the author, but did to me. The result was that i backed off and now tend to lurk.

I am also a member of a car forum which has a interesting post heading which is a daily diary. A single never ending post in which members show what they did that day. Reply’s are not necessary but the post encourages a wider range of members to participate due to the nature of a quick post. Just a thought.

I like this forum, the skill and projects shown by the members is incredible. Just be kind to each other.

[Jasonb]

I started two of the never ending threads on ME several years ago, one a general "what did you do today" and the other "workshop progress" which have been very popular and copied by at least one other model engineering forum. To keep them manageable I actually start a new one each year. The idea was to allow people to post what they had been upto with out the need to start a specific thread which can put some people off particularly new members and hopefully stimulate some responses and discussion.

[zeeprogrammer]

Thanks SwarfMaker.

Bob...your point is well taken. Encouragement (or an ego stroke to put it bluntly) is certainly a need. (SwarfMaker's post felt really good.) Even if I'd underlined or made bold the 'all' in my statement "If all you're doing it for is to get acknowledgement then that's wrong.", was unnecessary and incorrectly conveyed what I was trying to say.

Kim...you're welcome to that soapbox. I'm in complete agreement with what you said.

Paul...I'm glad you brought that up. There are a couple of members here that I tend to poke and joke around with. They seem fine with it (I've even PM'd them to be sure they were okay with it) but I do wonder how other people take it. And I too have said things that were taken differently that what was meant. Nor is it just international. Coming to the east coast from the midwest I've used 'sayings' that made people look at me sideways or ask if that was a good thing or not. I find it hard, as the speaker, to be aware of how something may come across. As a receiver, I tend (or try anyway) not to assume that what someone said was meant to be negative. I'll ask or assume it was positive or meant in jest.

On that point, I appreciate people who, when offended take it off-line and PM me with their concern rather than airing it out on the forum. This happened more often in the precursor to this forum than here.

You're correct of course about the negative connotation with 'lurker'. That will be hard to change but I'm going to try.

Funny, I can't help but think of a library or museum when people talk about 'observers' to the forum. The authors of the books will not know how their work influenced or helped someone.
I mentioned earlier about this being a social media site but it's also a library and a museum.

------

Daggers and Jason posted while I was writing this. Thumbs up to both of you.
And, Daggers, don't let it stop you. I made similar mistakes or got somewhat negative replies when I started and questioned whether to continue. It's really not much different than starting any relationship as both people learn about each other.

[Flyboy Jim]

This has been quite the thought provoking thread. Here's my input.

I've posted 5 or 6 build threads during the several years I've been on MEM. I didn't do them for the accolades. Rather ...I did them for several other reasons.

1). As a complete novice I wanted to have a platform to be able to get input (not accolades.......although there were quite a few and appreciated) and ask questions during my build. I learned a huge amount this way.

2). When I start a new build, the first thing I do is search for other build threads of the same project to see how others handled various operations. I wanted to pay that forward and provide documentation for others to look at. I think that's been fairly successful...........my little Elmer's #43 thread has had over 45,000 views since it's inception.

3). There are some incredible machinists and build threads here on MEM that I really enjoy and have learned a lot from. As a new machinist, I wanted to provide examples of machining at the other end of the scale in order to, hopefully, encourage others.

4). Finally for my own benefit. I used to have a pretty good memory.............nowadays not so much. I find that being able to look back at my previous build threads is really helpful to refresh my memory of how I did various operations.

Jim

[mklotz]

Build threads are good, but only if done with care.  Nothing is more offputting than a fifteen minute video showing every detail, every swarf ribbon, of drilling, boring and threading a hole on the lathe. (The only excuse for such visual ennui would be a newbie explicit request to see how it's done.)

If you're inspired to do build threads, study Chris' (crueby) build threads.  Text-embedded still pictures of model-critical steps or elucidation of some point made in the text; videos only when the project is finished and in motion.  I think a large part of the popularity of his threads, beyond his modeling expertise, is his mastery of the build thread form.

Let's stop worrying about the exact terminology for lurkers.  All this sensitivity about imagined offenses and exact phrasing is ridiculous among a bunch of folks who, for the most part, don't know the difference between 'lose' and 'loose'.  Soon some hypersensitive wanker will be all atwitter about the fact that we talk about "bastard" files and refer to only male and female hose fittings.

[Roger B]

Let's stop worrying about the exact terminology for lurkers.  All this sensitivity about imagined offenses and exact phrasing is ridiculous among a bunch of folks who, for the most part, don't know the difference between 'lose' and 'loose'.  Soon some hypersensitive wanker will be all atwitter about the fact that we talk about "bastard" files and refer to only male and female hose fittings.

Never mind lapping and grinding 

[propforward]

Soon some hypersensitive wanker will be all atwitter about the fact that we talk about "bastard" files and refer to only male and female hose fittings.

Excellent use of Wanker. This thread was worth it just for that.

Well for what it's worth, I'm going to continue with my own build thread - gosh so magnanimous of me! I had considered abandoning it (the thread, not the engine), but when I get back to the lathe to single point threads on slender shafts with my new, improved and totally ripped-off-someone's-better-idea-than-mine support fixture, I'll push for the try line. (That is like the goal line, but in Rugby terminology). I feel somewhat and genuinely buoyed and enthused by the sentiments in this thread.

[Kim]

More good points from everyone here!

I agree completely. Lurkers has a negative connotation (even in the west coast American English that I speak ) and observer is a much less emotionally charged word. But what's more important than what we call observers is how we make them feel.  If we make them feel unwelcome, they are less likely to ever join in.

And Marv, despite my above paragraph, I agree with what you're saying.  We all need to get a little thicker skin and not take offense at the smallest perceived provocation.  Wouldn't the world be a better place if we could all do that?  Not to mention our forum!

Kim

[paul gough]

As my post seems to have provoked outrage in a recent post I should like to clarify my intent. It was not an appeal to impose literary exactitude nor some cleansed political correctness on posts. I wanted, merely, to suggest a little care with vocabulary and politeness, sensitivity if you wish, can be helpful in making people feel at ease.
No-one demands a highly cultured articulation of their work, but the same approach to language and the transmission of ideas that applies to ones engineering is not out of place, even amongst "...a bunch of folks, for the most part', don't know the difference between 'lose' and 'loose'." A somewhat judgemental and probably inaccurate assessment of the membership of the forum.
I wholeheartedly agree that Crueby's build threads are very well produced and presented, however I would urge tolerance towards less highly skilled producers of content, this forum is not a precinct exclusively for the highly skilled and knowledgeable. Regards, Paul Gough.

[Jasonb]

Although I have said I prefer a thread with the pictures placed with the text I would still rather see people posting a build thread or any other thread/post in whatever way they can than not post one at all for fear that they are not doing it "with care"

Same goes for those that may have difficulty with spelling and grammar, lets not put people off of posting if they think they are not up to other's standards. Maybe a good time to revisit this post of John Bogs from the very early days of when the forum was started

https://www.modelenginemaker.com/index.php/topic,451.0.html