Author Topic: Chris's Holly Pumping Engine Build  (Read 154229 times)

Online crueby

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Re: Chris's Holly Pumping Engine Build
« Reply #1035 on: August 31, 2021, 01:58:53 AM »
Thanks Propforward!!


Turns out my cousin had to reschedule the drop-off for the boat parts, nothing done on that yet.


I just got back from a trip to Boston and Maine, stories, pictures and videos tomorrow. Small hint, think giant steam pumping engines, steam powered cars, lighthouses, and views of Canada.  That should keep you scratching heads till tomorrow!!   :headscratch:

Offline cnr6400

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Re: Chris's Holly Pumping Engine Build
« Reply #1036 on: August 31, 2021, 05:35:57 PM »
Canada itself was pretty steamy last week, let alone any pumping engines or cars. Head being scratched as we speak. :Lol:

sounds like you had an interesting trip! :cheers:
"I've cut that stock three times, and it's still too short!"

Online crueby

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Re: Chris's Holly Pumping Engine Build
« Reply #1037 on: August 31, 2021, 05:43:18 PM »
Canada itself was pretty steamy last week, let alone any pumping engines or cars. Head being scratched as we speak. :Lol:

sounds like you had an interesting trip! :cheers:
The temperatures were in mid 90's when I left home in upstate NY, by the time I got to Maine it was low 70s. On Monday though, even Maine was a steambath!
Getting pics and videos loaded up now...

Online Roger B

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Re: Chris's Holly Pumping Engine Build
« Reply #1038 on: August 31, 2021, 05:46:04 PM »
I'm still following and enjoying  :praise2:  :praise2:  :wine1: Your pause will allow me to catch up properly. That slitting saw looks quite vicious   ::) Do you get much chatter with the widely spaced teeth?
Best regards

Roger

Online crueby

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Re: Chris's Holly Pumping Engine Build
« Reply #1039 on: August 31, 2021, 06:21:47 PM »
So, its been a really fun long weekend - I went up and spent the afternoon Friday at the Waterworks Museum in Boston, where they have several huge old steam powered pumping engines. Then, on up to the Logging Museum in Maine, where I spent several nights staying in the museum caretakers house out in the woods (about 1-1/2 miles to nearest road), a very quiet spot in the middle of the museum. On Saturday, several of the museum people and I went over to Kingfield Maine to the Stanley Museum where they got out three of the Stanley steam cars, and took us all out for the afternoon in them. Very exciting - I've never even seen one run before, let alone ride in one! On Sunday I took a drive way up to the northern end of the Maine coast to Lubec, also hitting the Quoddy lighthouse at the easternmost point in the continental US. Monday down to Fort Knox (no, not the one with the gold and the Bond villains, this one is an early coastal defense fort) and also the Penobscot Narrows cable stay bridge. Quite a fun weekend!

So, time for some photos and videos. Here is a compilation of clips that I put together at the Stanley run (a little long)

[youtube1]https://youtu.be/-y34iUjB8Zg[/youtube1]
And a set of pictures from the Stanley day:
https://photos.app.goo.gl/26BXUuw5jSTm6j46A
For the short version, here are the three cars we rode in:



Here is what the engine from one looks like, two cylinder with reverse, directly geared to the rear axle with no changeable gears, capable of speeds in the 40 to 70mph range (we got up about 40 max, mostly we were on side roads). This is like the model engine that I built.


This is the boiler under the hood

and what it looks like inside - outer cylinder is wrapped in 3 layers of piano wire so they could use thinner metal and make it light weight. It runs at up to 600 psi. Many vertical firetubes, low water volume, has a kerosene burner.

All it needs is a driver!


And no, I did not get to drive, it takes a bit of training to operate these, lots of controls! Did get to spend several hours out riding around in them though.



As for the waterworks museum, it has several engines including this huge Allis triple pumping engine - pumps are under the floor:

The director there gave me free access all up and down the engines, from the pumps in the lower level up to the top catwalks. We spent hours going over the engine, he took lots of notes on how things worked and I got lots of detail photos and a chance to climb around. I found a number of details that I had missed on the plans, and explained a number of things that they did not know about.
Even spotted the boiler feedwater pump over on one wall in the lower level, same type as used on a locomotive - they had been wondering what it was.

Fascinating to see the pumps down on the lower level in person, very helpful for completing the 3D CAD model I am drawing up based on the original blueprints he gave me. Unfortunately the plans for the other engines there were lost years ago in a building collapse.


They have a pair of spare beehives for the check valve plates - there are patterns of these on the check valve plates inside the pumps on both the intake and output sides of the pumps - 1520 individual valves altogether. The round discs are hard rubber, spring loaded. That beehive is almost 2' tall, quite heavy, the pump chambers have lifting cranes built into the sides.

From there we worked our way all the way up all the levels of the engine, till we were standing on the top, 60' up from the base

Along the way got a lot of detail pictures of things like the governor and valve assemblies, will be useful on the CAD model since the plans show all the pieces but not much on how they go together!


One thing he pointed out was the damage on the valve guides for the poppet valves on the LP cylinder (most are Corliss, the IP exhaust and all LP are poppet)

You can see the broken piece at the bottom center of the curved part - looks like it metal fatigued the cast iron and cracked. Some were worse than this, and had been repaired at some point with a bolted on surrounding piece. These engines ran from late 1800s till 1970.

At the logging museum, this was my front yard - mist is coming off the mill creek early in the morning:

and I just had to stop in and see my favorite machines, the herd of Lombards in the machinery hall:



Lubec is a very pretty little town on the border of Canada. This lighthouse is on the Candian side:

Lots of lobstering there:

Quite tall pilings, the tide is over 15 feet

Just down the coast is the Quoddy lighthouse, easternmost in the US

Fort Knox (the Maine one) is a large coastal defense fort from early 1800s

Great overview of it from the top of the cable stay bridge there, it has an observation deck (with elevator, fortunately) that is 420 feet up

The bridge from below





Online crueby

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Re: Chris's Holly Pumping Engine Build
« Reply #1040 on: August 31, 2021, 06:24:06 PM »
I'm still following and enjoying  :praise2: :praise2: :wine1: Your pause will allow me to catch up properly. That slitting saw looks quite vicious   ::) Do you get much chatter with the widely spaced teeth?
That saw is a fairly small diameter, a little smaller than the gear cutters, so the teeth are not that far apart, and its quite rigid, its 1/16" thick. Using it in brass it cuts very clean and smooth, no chatter. I used a medium speed and fed slow - it threw off fine powdery chips.

Online Roger B

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Re: Chris's Holly Pumping Engine Build
« Reply #1041 on: August 31, 2021, 06:46:36 PM »
What a splendid trip  :)  :)  :)  :wine1:

Ah, so the teeth are smaller than I thought, scale is always difficult to perceive  :headscratch:
Best regards

Roger

Online crueby

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Re: Chris's Holly Pumping Engine Build
« Reply #1042 on: August 31, 2021, 06:50:18 PM »
What a splendid trip  :) :) :) :wine1:

Ah, so the teeth are smaller than I thought, scale is always difficult to perceive  :headscratch:
Just measured, its 2" diameter, 1/8" long teeth. Still aggressive, but it cuts great. If it was thinner I think it would flex.

Online Kim

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Re: Chris's Holly Pumping Engine Build
« Reply #1043 on: August 31, 2021, 06:52:29 PM »
Wow!  That was some action-packed trip!  The ride in the Stanly Steamers is pretty unique.  I'll bee not many people get that opportunity!  I know I haven't.  Not to mention the personal 1 on 1 tour of the Allis pumping engines.  And the night stay at the logging museum.  You really had a lot of great and special opportunities there, Chris!

Thanks for sharing them with us!
Kim

PS - See? Just like work - you go on a trip and have to give a trip report when you get back!  :Lol:

Online Roger B

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Re: Chris's Holly Pumping Engine Build
« Reply #1044 on: August 31, 2021, 07:13:30 PM »
My thing is to have actually driven a Sentinel Steam Wagon  :)  :) I was warned not to rely on the steam brake cylinder as it took a while to warm up, stop condensing the steam and apply pressure to the brake linings. At the same transport festival ( Crich Tramway museum) I was also challenged to drive a double decker bus (Bristol FLF driver trainer) up the quarry and back, the first time using the clutch to change gear, the second time without the clutch, each crunch was a pint to the owner   :) :wine1: :old:

https://www.tramway.co.uk/
Best regards

Roger

Online crueby

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Re: Chris's Holly Pumping Engine Build
« Reply #1045 on: August 31, 2021, 11:05:15 PM »
My thing is to have actually driven a Sentinel Steam Wagon  :) :) I was warned not to rely on the steam brake cylinder as it took a while to warm up, stop condensing the steam and apply pressure to the brake linings. At the same transport festival ( Crich Tramway museum) I was also challenged to drive a double decker bus (Bristol FLF driver trainer) up the quarry and back, the first time using the clutch to change gear, the second time without the clutch, each crunch was a pint to the owner   :) :wine1: :old:

https://www.tramway.co.uk/
Great site!

The head of the Stanley museum, Susan, was very interested to see the Mann Wagon model - she had a chance to drive a Sentinel at an event in New Hampshire once.

Online crueby

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Re: Chris's Holly Pumping Engine Build
« Reply #1046 on: August 31, 2021, 11:17:44 PM »
Oh, and while touring around the Leavitt engine at the waterworks museum, we came across that worm gear that was mentioned much earlier in this thread by Sid:

I explained to the director about how worm gears work, and how it would not be possible for the flywheel to get the worm gear to turn to drive something else as Sid's tour guide claimed. He remembered back when the engine was put of for Landmark status, they had an event where the engine was turned over by a small motor for a demonstration - this worm gear is likely the remnant of that event. I could tell that the stand it is on was a home-made addition, and the gear put into the barring holes IS in mesh but there is no provision for swinging it out of the way other than removing the bolts in the stand. The metal bar is quite lightweight, and would never stand up to actual engine speeds regardless. The Leavitt engine ran at 60 RPM, which along with its odd off-center design (so that it would fit the existing building) was most of the reason it broke down so much. Now, this is the Leavitt engine in Boston, same building but different engine than the Allis that I've been showing other pictures of.Also on the Leavitt, it was mentioned about what looks like a ships steering wheel up at the valve eccentrics next to the lay shaft. While there I was able to follow the control linkages and the gearing, and determine that it was put in to be the barring method - it has a bevel gear reduction set that connects to the lay shaft, with a lever with dog clutch to engage it when desired. That wheel would give a large gear reduction to the lay shaft, which itself is directly geared to the crankshaft, to allow them to turn the engine by hand for starting - it would only take a small turn angle on the crankshaft to get it off of a top/bottom dead center condition on the HP cylinder to allow it to self start. There are barring holes on the flywheel, but the only place that you could put a long lever in to use them is obstructed by one of the catwalk support poles!




Offline cnr6400

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Re: Chris's Holly Pumping Engine Build
« Reply #1047 on: September 01, 2021, 12:28:42 AM »
Great pics Chris! looks like an excellent trip and a lot of fun. Thanks for posting the photos.  :cheers:

oh, when looking across at Canada, did you have a sudden urge to eat poutine or a peameal/back bacon sandwich, wear a toque, and add the saying "eh?" to every sentence? Or compare snowmobile specs with your neighbour? No? maybe you weren't lookin long enough, eh?  :Lol:
"I've cut that stock three times, and it's still too short!"

Online crueby

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Re: Chris's Holly Pumping Engine Build
« Reply #1048 on: September 01, 2021, 12:57:29 AM »
Great pics Chris! looks like an excellent trip and a lot of fun. Thanks for posting the photos.  :cheers:

oh, when looking across at Canada, did you have a sudden urge to eat poutine or a peameal/back bacon sandwich, wear a toque, and add the saying "eh?" to every sentence? Or compare snowmobile specs with your neighbour? No? maybe you weren't lookin long enough, eh?  :Lol:
I was wearing a baseball cap and went for some fried Haddock, not close enough, eh?





I am having Red Green show flashbacks, eh?  Toss me another brewski! Keep yer stick on the ice!

Online steamer

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Re: Chris's Holly Pumping Engine Build
« Reply #1049 on: September 01, 2021, 01:18:00 AM »
Hey Chris

The barring engine, or wheel in this case, wasn't used to get the engine off dead center....They would use starting valves for that  which were live steam fed manually into the either the IP or LP cylinder when the engine was on HP TDC or BDC..      but a good engineer would never stop it there....but thats something else

The Barring engine or wheel was used to push condensate out of cylinders without starting the engine.  This would allow the condensate to exit the condensate valves slow enough to not hammer the cylinder heads and blow them off.   

We would do this to good effect on Sabino when she was started cold, and the 750 HP tug engine when we got it running.

Dave
"Mister M'Andrew, don't you think steam spoils romance at sea?"
Damned ijjit!

 

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