Chris's Holly Pumping Engine Build

[derekwarner]

Goodness Swarf Maker .....when considering Chris's nuts, I am sure careful consideration was made relative to relief angle [no nuts were ever designed to have 100% [flat] engagement, but reduced by 1/96th negative to the AF dimension]

Then we must consider flat washers were never just those punched out rings, but a Graded Carbon steel, machined, then heat-treated to acceptt the induced torque 

Naturally when I quote 1/96th, as obviously being Imperial [as copied by the US] .........

I am sure Chris has any issues with his nuts in hand 

Derek

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PS...sorry ..I cannot see your location, however if in Europe & using the Si System, then nut face relief face /angle would be  reduced by 1/100 th negative to the AF dimension]

[crueby]

Just one very, very minor observation Chris.  Nuts with each face chamfered are not usually encountered in this class of heavy engineering.  The face against the part being retained is usually flat.  Double chamfers are for general purpose nuts in the hardware store is my understanding.

I went back and looked in the photos I have of the Holly engines, and you may be right on the chamfers - the outside end definitely has the corners relieved, the inside end its harder to tell with the layers of old paint and dirt but they do appear to be flat!  I have close-up photos of the ones on the Allis engine in Boston, and on those I can tell that just the outside is chamfered.

 

[crueby]

Goodness Swarf Maker .....when considering Chris's nuts, I am sure careful consideration was made relative to relief angle [no nuts were ever designed to have 100% [flat] engagement, but reduced by 1/96th negative to the AF dimension]

Then we must consider flat washers were never just those punched out rings, but a Graded Carbon steel, machined, then heat-treated to acceptt the induced torque 

Naturally when I quote 1/96th, as obviously being Imperial [as copied by the US] .........

I am sure Chris has any issues with his nuts in hand 

Derek

-----------
PS...sorry ..I cannot see your location, however if in Europe & using the Si System, then nut face relief face /angle would be  reduced by 1/100 th negative to the AF dimension]

Derek, sounds like you are talking more about how flat the faces are, I think SwarfMaker is talking more about the relief on the corners on the end faces.  Here is a closeup snipped from a photo on the Allis engine that has and extreme chamfer/roundover:

The Holly engine does not go this far on its nuts, it just has the corners of the flats rounded off, here is one on the Holly engine:

On both, its interesting to see that they sized the studs to end at the top of the nuts in most places rather than come through a thread or two - I can see in other photos that they are not bolts, they are studs/nuts. I do not have good pics of the Holly bearing cap tops, from the walkway I could only get within 40 or 50 feet and they are in the shadows. I do have a good shot of the bearing caps on the Allis, where I could get a lot closer, they are very similar in shape to the Holly:

[ddmckee54]

The solution is simple at this scale.

Assemble the engine then gob on a couple thick coats of paint over the nuts, brush painted of course.  When you're short of REAL work you send the apprentice - in your case elves - out with a bucket of paint and a paint brush, not a spray-gun. (At least that's what happened when I started work many-many moons ago.)

It'll look just like the real thing, and you won't be able to tell if the nuts are chamfered on both ends or not.

Don

[crueby]

The solution is simple at this scale.

Assemble the engine then gob on a couple thick coats of paint over the nuts, brush painted of course.  When you're short of REAL work you send the apprentice - in your case elves - out with a bucket of paint and a paint brush, not a spray-gun. (At least that's what happened when I started work many-many moons ago.)

It'll look just like the real thing, and you won't be able to tell if the nuts are chamfered on both ends or not.

Don

The LAST thing I need is my shop elves with buckets (well, thimbles) of black paint!!  Starts out fine, then the paint flicking starts, then the graffiti (Your mother was a gnome, that sort of thing) on the walls, then the bucket over the head (thiers, then mine) ....   

This morning I WAS going to start drilling/boring for the bearings, but last night I realized that to avoid interrupted cuts I needed to first take the sides of the bearing blocks down to match the width of the caps as they will be when finished. So, started that this morning instead...   

[derekwarner]

Chris....

If we could find a 130 year old copy of "Engineering Machine Practice" **  , we would find confirmation that the height of these high tensile flat washers was gauged to suit the as installed extended height, of the stud after installation ..

This procedure being a throw-back from Victorian Engineering Rules, as can be seen in your example that the end radius of the stud machined  to equal the radius of the nut

So yes, at the turn of the Century [early 1900's], accurate height reduction would have been via a surface grinding machine.....& yes each washer was match marked for each stud

We would also read that a relief was made on the lower face to equal 1 degree of angularity from the point of the hex, to the flat of the hex, then minus 1/96 of that dimension......

Earlier in this thread we mentioned that the method of applying an accurate level of induced torque for such mountings was via a 28lb hammer  over the Flogging Spanner 

** not to be confused with the popular "Machinary's Handbook" - Volume 1 [First printed 1914]

Derek

[cnr6400]

Elfensteiner stubbies and black paint - a potent combination of chemicals! (you remember what happened to Mr Ethan Oll and the green paint incident during the Mann truck build...... a shameful moment for shop elves.)   

 

[kvom]

Starts out fine, then the paint flicking starts

Like another well known gnome:  starts out being an oil executive in Ukraine and then blowing paint through a straw.   

[crueby]

Wow, did we head off into the weeds or what...

[crueby]

Okay - back on the build, catching up on whats been happening the last couple of days. Before boring the bearing holes, the sides of the bearing blocks needed to be taken down to width, matching the width of the bearing caps, so that there would not be an interupted cut when drilling/boring the bearing holes through them. This picture shows the block before milling off the outside:


and after:

This was done on all four blocks, and likewise milled off the inside faces.

Then on to actually boring the holes. Since the engine beds are over 3" wide, no way I could use the boring head to do it all from one side, and as described in an earlier post the option of line boring would not work out for all the beds. So, I needed a way to align the holes through when drilling from either side. Went through a few methods, and settled on this one. I took a piece of offcut aluminum from the bin, and drilled/counterbored so that it could be bolted to the mill table. This piece has a recess in the underside so that I could bore in from the top, and break through without harming the mill table.

With that block bolted to the mill table, the IP engine bed (center one with bearings on both sides) was clamped down over the block on its side, with the location of the bearing hole roughly centered over the recess on the bottom. The mill table was adjusted till the drill center was lined up with the center of the bearing hole, which is on the center of the seam between the bearing block and the cap. At this point, the mill table X/Y movements were both locked down and left locked for the rest of the steps.

After checking that the bed was square to the table, and the center of the drill was lined up, drilled the starter hole for the bearing. The finished hole will need to be 0.828" diameter.

Switched to the boring head, and started enlargine the hole...

A lot of cranking later, and the hole was out to size:

So far so good. Now to put the alignement block to actual use. The bed was unclamped and all the swarf dumped into the shop elves sandbox for them to play in. Then, drilled a starter hole through the alignment block and bored it out a ways - size of that hole is not critical, just needed to be on the same axis as the hole bored in the bed, and since the mill table was locked down that should be the case. The recess in the bottom of the plate let me bore through without harming the mill table. Carefully...


Then popped over to the lathe and turned up this little chunk of roundbar to fit the bore in the engine bed. A short nub was turned on the end to fit the hole in the alignment plate - worked out well, press fit in the plate, and sliding fit in the engine bed hole.

Then the moment of truth - slid the engine bed over the post,

 and clamped it down to the table. Then ran a drill down to the starter hole, and .... it lined right up!!   

So, all lined up, now I can bore the matching hole in the other side out to size. The shop elves have gotten the boring head reinstalled on the mill for me.

All went well till they said it was all in place and to turn it on. Too bad he was still sitting on the boring head at the time....   

[cnr6400]

 

[crueby]

[ddmckee54]

It's a good thing the elves don't know about OHSA, and even more importantly that OSHA doesn't know about the elves.  Otherwise you'd be buried in the paperwork for their Lock Out Tag Out violations.

Don

[crueby]

It's a good thing the elves don't know about OHSA, and even more importantly that OSHA doesn't know about the elves.  Otherwise you'd be buried in the paperwork for their Lock Out Tag Out violations.

Don

OSHA came a couple times, left crying and covered in swarf...  The elves used the tags as Christmas ornaments!

Speaking of angry elves, I need to stuff some down the shorts of the support people at Duplicolor paints.   
Several weeks ago I had bought some of their engine enamel in white - been using their ceramic engine paints for a long time on steam engines, boilers, RC submarines, all sorts of stuff, works great. This one can was a dud - came out like a garden hose rather than like an aerosol. Okay, they get a bad unit once in a while, not that big a deal. So, I contacted their support group, gave them the requested bar codes and batch codes, and they were very nice, and sent me a replacement can of the spray paint. Bit of a delay, but okay. This was for a new submarine model that is still in progress, so not a big deal on lost time.
It arrived today, got it shook up and fortunately did a test spray on cardboard first. SAME problem as the first can. Looked at the batch codes - its from the SAME SWARFING BATCH!       They had asked for the batch codes to track it back and do quality control checks. Gee, that worked well... At least I didn't need to sand off all the goo this time.

So, looks like the blew it on that whole batch, either a bad set of nozzles or they mixed the paint wrong, comes out as a 1/4" thick stream of goo, looks more like spray foam insulation coming out. The first can came from an auto store, this new one straight from the factory.
Just sent them another note with pictures and details, kept the language clean barely. We'll see what they say.In the meantime, I am preparing a bag of mean nasty ugly hungry rabid shop gnomes to mail them...
End rant. Back to the pumping engine!

[RReid]

Excellent solution to the boring (no, not boring, I mean the repeatable hole making) problem Chris!