Author Topic: Chris's Holly Pumping Engine Build  (Read 154146 times)

Offline Kim

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Re: Chris's Holly Pumping Engine Build
« Reply #90 on: March 21, 2021, 08:14:06 PM »
You're almost to the end of the waffle iron plates there Chris!  But shouldn't your help there be wearing eye protection?   At least the beer isn't open while he's operating the machinery!  You'd have Elf-OSHA (ElfSHA?) all over you for that!

Kim

Offline crueby

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Re: Chris's Holly Pumping Engine Build
« Reply #91 on: March 22, 2021, 04:03:08 PM »
You're almost to the end of the waffle iron plates there Chris!  But shouldn't your help there be wearing eye protection?   At least the beer isn't open while he's operating the machinery!  You'd have Elf-OSHA (ElfSHA?) all over you for that!

Kim
Better to have the occasional Elf-Sha visit than a Oh-Sh** !

Offline crueby

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Re: Chris's Holly Pumping Engine Build
« Reply #92 on: March 22, 2021, 04:10:10 PM »
So, with the waffle-maker patterns complete, last bit of milling is to angle the edges of the plates. For the long sides, the plates were stood up on edge and shims put at the bottom on one side and the top on the other side to tilt it over the 4.9 degree angle, checked with a protractor.

The mill height was set to cut almost to the lower edge, and passes made to take the side down, leaving a lip at the top. That lip was then taken off square to the plate by removing the shims and letting the plate stand vertical.

For the short edges, standing it up on end would leave too much sticking out of the vise, so I turned the vise sideways and put a shim under one end of the plate.

then likewise setting the plate flat and milling the lip at the top off. Here is a vieew of the completed angles - doesn't show up that great in the pictures, but in person the compound angles give a nice look, much better than the square vertical edges. I assume they did the angles to make it easier to make and remove the casting molds. Thats a good question for the casting experts out there - would something this huge be done in a sand mold, or would they have done it some other way that I cannot think of? In modern construction a lot of stuff like this would be pieced up by welding robots, but that was not an option back then.   :thinking:

Offline cnr6400

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Re: Chris's Holly Pumping Engine Build
« Reply #93 on: March 22, 2021, 05:26:43 PM »
 :ThumbsUp: :ThumbsUp: :ThumbsUp: :popcorn: :popcorn: :popcorn:

Yes on the sand casting for the originals. Such large castings would be "floor" or "pit" mouldings, actually done in the sand / loam floor of the foundry. Wood pattern for lower half of casting would be rammed up deep in the floor, parting lines arranged as usual. The upper half of the mould was often rammed up in a large "floor flask" frame grid , the pattern pulled out, and the upper half mould turned over and placed on the lower half, using the crane. Lots of weight added to the mould's upper half to resist the buouancy of the iron. The casting would be poured from a big ladle handled by the crane, or in really big pours, direct from the cupola in floor channels to the mould. Some castings if a flat top was possible with no coring were poured "open" with no top mould, and sand thrown on top after initial solidification to stop chilling / hard spots. Locomotive cast frames were done this way in some cases. Floor moulding area of foundries was an extremely dangerous workplace. Putting your boot or hand down in the wrong place could be fatal or at least result in a catastrophic injury. I witnessed a few small and medium size floor pours with cast steel (thankfully with no safety related incidents at all) during a co-op at a steel making firm when I was a student. Not long afterward, that type/scale of large casting industry, iron or steel,  pretty much disappeared in Ontario Canada. Lots of it still done in Korea and Taiwan I understand, for the ship engine / heavy equipment markets. Still several excellent foundries in Ontario doing smaller iron castings and non ferrous.
"I've cut that stock three times, and it's still too short!"

Offline crueby

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Re: Chris's Holly Pumping Engine Build
« Reply #94 on: March 22, 2021, 07:28:50 PM »
:ThumbsUp: :ThumbsUp: :ThumbsUp: :popcorn: :popcorn: :popcorn:

Yes on the sand casting for the originals. Such large castings would be "floor" or "pit" mouldings, actually done in the sand / loam floor of the foundry. Wood pattern for lower half of casting would be rammed up deep in the floor, parting lines arranged as usual. The upper half of the mould was often rammed up in a large "floor flask" frame grid , the pattern pulled out, and the upper half mould turned over and placed on the lower half, using the crane. Lots of weight added to the mould's upper half to resist the buouancy of the iron. The casting would be poured from a big ladle handled by the crane, or in really big pours, direct from the cupola in floor channels to the mould. Some castings if a flat top was possible with no coring were poured "open" with no top mould, and sand thrown on top after initial solidification to stop chilling / hard spots. Locomotive cast frames were done this way in some cases. Floor moulding area of foundries was an extremely dangerous workplace. Putting your boot or hand down in the wrong place could be fatal or at least result in a catastrophic injury. I witnessed a few small and medium size floor pours with cast steel (thankfully with no safety related incidents at all) during a co-op at a steel making firm when I was a student. Not long afterward, that type/scale of large casting industry, iron or steel,  pretty much disappeared in Ontario Canada. Lots of it still done in Korea and Taiwan I understand, for the ship engine / heavy equipment markets. Still several excellent foundries in Ontario doing smaller iron castings and non ferrous.
Fascinating! Amazing how many ways that same basic technology was used.


And this was the first time I ever heard the phrase 'bouyancy of the iron', though now that you mention it I have seen videos of casting work where weights were placed on top of the upper flask.

Thanks for the info!!

Offline crueby

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Re: Chris's Holly Pumping Engine Build
« Reply #95 on: March 22, 2021, 07:30:28 PM »
And no shop time this afternoon, we finally got some sunny weather up around 70F so I packed the elves into the RC submarine and took them down to the pond for the first RC run of the season. Great to get outside and play!

Offline cnr6400

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Re: Chris's Holly Pumping Engine Build
« Reply #96 on: March 22, 2021, 09:48:01 PM »
Yep, too nice outside to be inside all day. I was out at noon for a good walk.

I'll have a troll around in yoot ube and see if anyone has posted any video of floor moulding / casting of big parts.

 I wouldn't think the icebreaker would be needed on the submarine pond, but any scale iceberg floaters? Hope the elves were sobered up and had no hangovers for their silent run.  :Lol:

Hope you had fun with the RC boats.   :cheers:
"I've cut that stock three times, and it's still too short!"

Offline crueby

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Re: Chris's Holly Pumping Engine Build
« Reply #97 on: March 22, 2021, 10:36:03 PM »
Yep, too nice outside to be inside all day. I was out at noon for a good walk.

I'll have a troll around in yoot ube and see if anyone has posted any video of floor moulding / casting of big parts.

 I wouldn't think the icebreaker would be needed on the submarine pond, but any scale iceberg floaters? Hope the elves were sobered up and had no hangovers for their silent run.  :Lol:

Hope you had fun with the RC boats.   :cheers:
Perfect afternoon out - weekday so not many people around, all the ice is gone, water level was high, and the Weed Monster has not migrated back north yet!

Offline gary.a.ayres

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Re: Chris's Holly Pumping Engine Build
« Reply #98 on: March 22, 2021, 10:54:20 PM »
Impressive milling on that plate...

Offline crueby

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Re: Chris's Holly Pumping Engine Build
« Reply #99 on: March 22, 2021, 11:07:59 PM »
Impressive milling on that plate...
Thanks Gary! One plate was enough, but in this case it needs three of them so it took a fair bit longer! Even though the grid work wont be seen in the final model, it does reduce the weight by half.

Offline crueby

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Re: Chris's Holly Pumping Engine Build
« Reply #100 on: March 23, 2021, 03:51:42 PM »
Some done this morning - got the bolt holes drilled through the aluminum floor plate (currently being painted concrete grey) for the base plates and the wood base. It was too big for one go in the mill, so I laid out and drilled the holes down one side, bolted the bases on, and used them as drill guides for the other holes (after making sure they were nice and square to the floor and the proper distances apart). There are 8 holes holding each base down, one in each corner under the frame pads, and four more closer to the center. The bolts for the corners will go up through the frames, and get a nut where they come out on the frame legs (this is how the originals were).


Then, the UPS truck showed up just in time with my order from LMS of a hand tapping jig. Never used one before, but with this many holes in the bases and all the small holes to come in the frames and floor plates, thought it was worth a try. Looks very promising, did the first 8 or 10 holes pretty quick with a 2-56 tap. Couple complaints with it: it is set up and labeled for inch-size tap bases, but its set screws are all metric sockets.   :facepalm2:   The holes in the adapters for the taps are too large, so the tap gets held off-center - I made a little brass bushing for the small tap sizes to fix that, easy. Lastly, the big bolts that hold the upper frame to the base plate it came with are too long, and stuck out the bottom, causing it to rock. An extra washer fixed that. Simple stuff. Overall, I like it, and it saved me the time/materials to make my own.

And its easy enough to use that a couple cookies have bribed, er, enticed, the shop elves to help out!

Offline cnr6400

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Re: Chris's Holly Pumping Engine Build
« Reply #101 on: March 23, 2021, 04:01:57 PM »
Glad to see the cookies got the handle swingers into action!

A thought on the metric setscrews - if you change them to be a little longer you can maybe order ones with a slot for a screwdriver or cut a slot in them for one yourself. Or silver solder inch size sockets from inch capscrews onto them!

In my case I'd consider firing up my homebuilt EDM and burn the sockets out to next bigger inch size using a hex brass or copper electrode. For small setscrews it would only take a few minutes' burn time.

 :ThumbsUp: :ThumbsUp: :ThumbsUp: :popcorn: :popcorn: :popcorn:
"I've cut that stock three times, and it's still too short!"

Offline Kim

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Re: Chris's Holly Pumping Engine Build
« Reply #102 on: March 23, 2021, 04:30:55 PM »
Interesting little gadget, Chris. You'll have to let us know how you like it in a few hundred threads :)  :popcorn:
Kim

Offline Roger B

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Re: Chris's Holly Pumping Engine Build
« Reply #103 on: March 23, 2021, 05:45:03 PM »
Wonderful  :praise2:  :praise2: So many holes and so much swarf  :)  :ThumbsUp:  :wine1:

Is the tapping tool designed to be lubricated with Elfsteiner?

I tend to use my little Proxxon bench drill as a tapping tool but I am usually working against the return spring.
Best regards

Roger

Offline crueby

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Re: Chris's Holly Pumping Engine Build
« Reply #104 on: March 23, 2021, 07:38:52 PM »
Wonderful  :praise2: :praise2: So many holes and so much swarf  :) :ThumbsUp: :wine1:

Is the tapping tool designed to be lubricated with Elfsteiner?

I tend to use my little Proxxon bench drill as a tapping tool but I am usually working against the return spring.
I actually considered doing that, if I spot a used one cheap I'd have gotten it, taken off that spring, and put a t handle on the top pulley.


I'll have to look in the shop and see if the elves did any more, I have been off at the pond again.

 

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