Author Topic: Chris's Holly Pumping Engine Build  (Read 33369 times)

Online crueby

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Re: Chris's Holly Pumping Engine Build
« Reply #360 on: April 23, 2021, 04:27:44 AM »
Its even worse, its 1000 gallons, not 100.




I was watching the third of thier videos, turns out they mentioned that the films they had were silent, and they added the sound track from other engines, so hard to know what it really sounded like. Bummer on that!  Still, all that  water movement and thousands of check valves must have meant vibration and sound. In the plans it shows the check valves as T shapes with springs, some sort of seal material. Had to be sounds from that. I remember seeing a video of a giant steam engine running a armor plate rolling mill, might have been in the show Industrial Revelations, gives some sense of sound. The pumps ran at just 10 to 20 rpm, so no high speed whirring, but thats still a lot of moving metal to rumble. Must have been mesmerizing to watch five of these in a row all going, much more so than the little electric ones they use now. Little by comparison anyway.

Online crueby

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Re: Chris's Holly Pumping Engine Build
« Reply #361 on: April 23, 2021, 04:12:41 PM »
Glad I took the time to print a prototype set of the check valve parts - there was one piece that I forgot to work out how to assemble in place in the housings. Got that fixed, reprinting those two parts...

Online crueby

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Re: Chris's Holly Pumping Engine Build
« Reply #362 on: April 23, 2021, 11:14:39 PM »
Today got the last of the holes in the pump chambers bored, and started milling the flats that connect the holes:


The rest of these will go a lot quicker than the boring did. After these flats are done, I'll lay out and start milling the slots for the brackets that go on the sides of the chambers (see the CAD rendering back several posts for a picture of that).

Weather today was decent, got out to the garage and replaced the old noisy/flickery/dim shop lights with new LED versions - LOTS brighter, and will work in cold weather a lot better too. Now just need to take a run over to the recycle place with the old tubes... Replaced the last couple of the old fluorescents in the basement too.

Online crueby

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Re: Chris's Holly Pumping Engine Build
« Reply #363 on: April 24, 2021, 03:56:29 PM »
With the pipe holes all milled, next step was to cut the slots for the side brackets to fit into. This went quickly, just three straight cuts per side, took as long to swap parts with all the little screws on the arbor as to make the cuts.

Here are the three pump chambers so far

Went through the bar stock shelves and found a perfect piece of flat stock for the verticals on the brackets:

I'll get sets of those cut to rough length, along with pieces for the horizontal shelf on top, and start bolting them together for silver soldering.

Also I have been going round and round to figure out how to make the pipe extension/flanges that fit the oblong holes. Considered piecing them up from round and flat stock, but that would be a LOT of long flat seams to get soldered watertight. I dont have any flat bar thick enough or round bar close in size to the overall width (just one short bit of 1-3/8", would need another foot of that). I do have that nice big chunk of 2-1/4" roundbar that I got to make the chambers from. If I take short sections of that, stress relieve them, and cut them lengthwise in half, I'll get chunks perfect for making the parts from. It will take yet another jig to round the ends and leave the flats in the center, but that will be easy to figure out. Again, here is what the finished chambers need to look like (too bad they will be so hidden behind all the other pipework and valve chambers! )


Online crueby

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Re: Chris's Holly Pumping Engine Build
« Reply #364 on: April 24, 2021, 05:29:01 PM »
And a little time with the band saw to make up six sets of Holly Pump Chamber Bracket Kits - lots of assembly required!


Online crueby

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Re: Chris's Holly Pumping Engine Build
« Reply #365 on: April 25, 2021, 03:39:08 PM »
Yesterday afternoon saw the bracket 'kits' drilled/tapped for small screws to hold them in place for silver soldering.

Got them assembled and clamped to the pump bodies to drill/tap a single hole in the center vertical fin (which was also notched to that hole would be shorter) to bolt the bracket to the body.

After soldering (which will be done at the same time as the pipe sections are soldered in), the vertical fins will be milled back at an angle to the body - the left/center bracket in the previous picture has a line sketched on it showing that angle.

This morning I turned my attention to the pipe sections. Not having any flat stock thick enough, I took some short lengths of the 2-1/4" bar that the pump chambers were made from and sawed (sawned? sawneded? sawed!) in them in half which gives just enough stock to make the oblong section sof the pipes, as well as an extension that will go through the pipe on the valve body and bolt to the check valve assembly (to be made later). The ends of the halves were also sawed off to cut down on milling time.


To hold them for milling, I made an arbor with a 10-32 center hole and another one 1/2" to one side (the arcs on the oblong are 1/2" on centers). Now I am drilling the holes in the blanks (left of next photo) so they can be bolted to the arbor on the rotary table (right of next photo). With this setup I can mill the profile of one end of each to fit the pump chamber openings, and the other ends to clear the openings in the valve housings. Lotsa swarf and crank turning for the next couple days!


Offline Jo

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Re: Chris's Holly Pumping Engine Build
« Reply #366 on: April 25, 2021, 04:17:53 PM »
 :popcorn: Its amazing what can be made by soldering bits together  :popcorn:

Jo
Enjoyment is more important than achievement.

Online crueby

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Re: Chris's Holly Pumping Engine Build
« Reply #367 on: April 26, 2021, 04:05:03 PM »
:popcorn: Its amazing what can be made by soldering bits together  :popcorn:

Jo
Pretty much the way patterns for castings are made, except they usually used wood and glue!   :cheers:

Online crueby

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Re: Chris's Holly Pumping Engine Build
« Reply #368 on: April 26, 2021, 04:12:24 PM »
Using the arbor jig thingy made last time, I started in on shaping the ends of the blanks that go into the opening in the pump chambers. First took the sides to width, same distance out from center on each side (easy with rotary table, take both sides down with same settings)


Then centered the table front to back, and took the first end down till it met the sides

then swapped the blank around and did the same on the other end. Here is a test fit of the chamber on the end

And a view from inside the chamber, showing how the part rests up against the shoulder left on the chamber opening. The holes in the part are still small, to fit the arbor screws, will take them out to final diameter after the other end of the part is milled.

So far I have three of the parts to this stage, three more to go, then will start on the other ends, which go into the valve chamber pips. There also needs to be a flange added for bolting the pipes together.

Offline EricB

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Re: Chris's Holly Pumping Engine Build
« Reply #369 on: April 26, 2021, 08:08:20 PM »
 :popcorn:

That's a lot of brass! I was wondering how these pumps were going to work after boring holes through the sides of the cylinders. I think I can see now that the piston just displaces the liguid in the vessel rather than forcing it down a bored cylinder. Is that correct?

Eric

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Re: Chris's Holly Pumping Engine Build
« Reply #370 on: April 26, 2021, 09:33:52 PM »
:popcorn:

That's a lot of brass! I was wondering how these pumps were going to work after boring holes through the sides of the cylinders. I think I can see now that the piston just displaces the liguid in the vessel rather than forcing it down a bored cylinder. Is that correct?

Eric


Exactly right. The pump chamber is just like the little hand operated boiler feed pumps we use on model boilers, a simple ram in a chamber to draw in and force out water. On the hand pumps, there is normally a single set of check valves at the end of the chamber. On this pump, there are two sets, one on each side of the chamber. The ram goes through a seal at the top, then the chamber flares out inside, so its not making contact down the length like a piston. There are three pumps, one under each piston of the engine above, and the pumps are single acting. When running, the action of the three overlap, each in a sine wave, so the final output is closer to a straight line. Not straight, but close to it, and the air pressure at the tops of the force chambers helps even it out. The videos from Cincinnati that I linked to several posts back do a great job showing animation of it all.


 :cheers:

Offline cnr6400

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Re: Chris's Holly Pumping Engine Build
« Reply #371 on: April 26, 2021, 10:48:58 PM »
 :ThumbsUp: :ThumbsUp: :ThumbsUp: :popcorn: :popcorn: :popcorn:

Offline derekwarner

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Re: Chris's Holly Pumping Engine Build
« Reply #372 on: April 26, 2021, 11:28:55 PM »
Are you going to set the axis of the pump chambers up in the mill so the gusset lines [edges/sides/tops] are in the horizontal plane, then simply slab mill them to the desired angle? [after being silver soldered?.

Derek ..[sorry  :facepalm: my face angle shown is out a bit.......but you get the drift  :ROFL: ]
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Online crueby

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Re: Chris's Holly Pumping Engine Build
« Reply #373 on: April 27, 2021, 12:05:49 AM »
Are you going to set the axis of the pump chambers up in the mill so the gusset lines [edges/sides/tops] are in the horizontal plane, then simply slab mill them to the desired angle? [after being silver soldered?.

Derek ..[sorry  :facepalm: my face angle shown is out a bit.......but you get the drift  :ROFL: ]
Not totally sure what you mean?  The pipe sections are horizontal and straight across one side to the other, at same level as the pipes coming out of the valve chambers. So, everything is square to everything else. Other than being rounded on the sides, at least. The chambers were held square to the mill by thier bases, the openings make it look like they are on an angle since they go through a round and tapered area on the chambers.


Does that make sense? I can add more pictures if not.


 :cheers:

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Re: Chris's Holly Pumping Engine Build
« Reply #374 on: April 27, 2021, 12:17:10 AM »

This should clarify what I'm making - a side and top view of the finished pump chamber. The part I'm making now is highlighted in blue.

With the corner view