Chris's Holly Pumping Engine Build

[crueby]

...

Hi Chris,
What scale are you going to build the engine too,
Pluss will you be doing a RC boat for it?
Gerald.

Hi Gerald,
I have not decided for sure, am leaning towards building at 1:8 scale, though that would require using the riser blocks on the lathe to turn the bores on the two engine block halves (very do-able). Otherwise I'd have to drop back to 1:12. The larger scale would keep the fasteners in a good size range too.
It would NOT be set up for an RC boat at that size - at 1:8 it would be over 7 feet long. Big enough to ride in, though the boiler would be a toasty place to sit on! I'll keep my original electric powered RC version.
Chris

[steamer]

[/quote]

It would NOT be set up for an RC boat at that size - at 1:8 it would be over 7 feet long. Big enough to ride in, though the boiler would be a toasty place to sit on! I'll keep my original electric powered RC version.
Chris
[/quote]



You got that right!    boiler front in August was 140 ....at the controls.....120+......you drink a lot of water....and I was a much younger man...
I was a volunteer Engineer on her for 12 years.    I spend over 1000 hours in her engine room, and much more than that doing engine restorations....it was a good bunch of people...

Dave

[steamer]

And  Chris, I suspect those are old pictures...but those cross head guides are about 1/4 th the length that they really are.   It's a taper gib plate with a box bearing.    The main bearings have wick boxes..., And there has always been a guard on the front of the engine from about 6' below the HP lower cylinder head all the way down to the bed plate.   at the bed plate, there is a 6" high copper band, but otherwise the guard is painted red and is held in place with "J" bolts on the front column, and bolts on the port side.  It keeps you from getting the coal rake into the cross head, and getting an arm or hand in the cross head.   

It's coming along nice!.....

AS to the other .....suprise......I think a 10,000 HP 4 legged triple from a Great White Fleet battleship. is pretty ambitious!......but its easier if your buddy has the plans for it.....      Did you know that this engine is so big, they put staybolts in the HP steam passages?.....


Dave
 

[crueby]

And  Chris, I suspect those are old pictures...but those cross head guides are about 1/4 th the length that they really are.   It's a taper gib plate with a box bearing.    The main bearings have wick boxes..., And there has always been a guard on the front of the engine from about 6' below the HP lower cylinder head all the way down to the bed plate.   at the bed plate, there is a 6" high copper band, but otherwise the guard is painted red and is held in place with "J" bolts on the front column, and bolts on the port side.  It keeps you from getting the coal rake into the cross head, and getting an arm or hand in the cross head.   

It's coming along nice!.....

AS to the other .....suprise......I think a 10,000 HP 4 legged triple from a Great White Fleet battleship. is pretty ambitious!......but its easier if your buddy has the plans for it.....      Did you know that this engine is so big, they put staybolts in the HP steam passages?.....


Dave

Hi Dave,
Yup, those pictures are from before you told me about the corsshead length, the con rod diameter, and the bearing lube boxes/oil cups. All thats been fixed on the CAD version, just didn't grab new pics yet. I've left off the big guard panel for now - wanted to be able to see things behind it easier. I have wished it wasn't there on the real engine in a lot of the pictures, it blocks view of a lot! Its been a ball CAD'ing it up, made for a few long evenings when I got on a roll with it. At one point I had a problem with Fusion, a folder full of bolt bodies were still there in the drawing, but were not showing in the component all of a sudden. I wound up on the phone with a great tech support guy from AutoCad who helped me work out a way to get the bodies back in the list again, but that was after he spent 5 minutes admiring the model and getting its background!

For the other ....surprise.... I guess that feline critter has escaped from the cloth container! I've looked up pictures from some of the other battleships with the same setup, it definitely is a monster of an engine. A 75 HP twin compound to a 10,000HP triple - Eh! A Piece Of Cake!  (well, a flippin container ship full of cake...! ) I may need another addition on the house....!

As mentioned - thanks so much for all the info!  Out at the pond today, one of the other guys in the club told me that he has a bunch of bar stock in storage from when they cleaned out his fathers' metal shop (still around, just moved to a smaller house). He (the father) used to build some wonderful steam engines, had a beaut of a tug with a boiler and engine it it that he brought to some of the RC regattas. We are going to check out his stash of bar stock, mostly brass, and I'll make him an offer on it. Sounds like it will get used on these engines!
Hmmm, what IS the load capacity of a typical wood frame house room floor.... 
Chris

 

[steamer]

Guilty as charged.    That engine needs to get built.   

[cnr6400]

"Hmmm, what IS the load capacity of a typical wood frame house room floor.... "

Chris, when the going gets tough, the tough install extra beams and columns! 

PS I've just done a major sort / consolidation of my metals stock 12" long or less into some nice heavy duty plastic bins that sit on a heavy plywood roller dolly with casters, rated at 2200 lb capacity - there's maybe 400 lb on it. Two columns of 5 boxes each fit the dolly and can be moved around by light hand pressure. I also re-sorted by long stock rack that is built below my surface plate stand. Now the brass is with the brass, etc. The only major sort left to do is the rats nest of 13-24" stuff on the shelf behind the lathe.

That badly behaved shop gnome you catapulted over a while ago has not helped the 13-24" rats nest much. 

[RonGinger]

I have also been a long time fan of SABINO. I now live on the river where it was originally operated- it passed by my house several times a day from its launch until it sank in the bridge accident in 1918.

I noticed in the CAD animation that the reverse lever was oscillating up and down a bit. If that was constrained would it show the die slip on the link?

I just hope you get that engine done and written up soon, I have always want to build one, but was to lazy to do the CAD. I have photos and measurements from back in the day that Dave was operating it.

[crueby]

I have also been a long time fan of SABINO. I now live on the river where it was originally operated- it passed by my house several times a day from its launch until it sank in the bridge accident in 1918.

I noticed in the CAD animation that the reverse lever was oscillating up and down a bit. If that was constrained would it show the die slip on the link?

I just hope you get that engine done and written up soon, I have always want to build one, but was to lazy to do the CAD. I have photos and measurements from back in the day that Dave was operating it.

Hi Ron,
I didn't realize that was where it ran early on!


The reverse lever movement is something I struggled with in Fusion - the bearing on the end of the valve rod should move slightly on the slide link as the engine rotates, has to since there is one pivot point for the control arms, but two sets of arms at different angles with the eccentrics out of phase. But, Fusion doesn't have a combination of joints, at least that I have worked out, that will let me model that correctly. So, I had to tie the arms to one of the valve rods and that makes the reverse lever wobble. It will NOT do that in the model!

......   I have photos and measurements from back in the day that Dave was operating it.

Really?! measurements of the engine itself? Detail photos?  Ooohhh! Send them! Send them! Please!!!  You have my email, I can send a link to my DropBox if its a large volumn too big for email. I have very few data points, just a handful of photos that show detail, just a few measurements, and some great sketches that Greg did. I have the CAD model close, but there are guestimates in a lot of places made by measuring the photos I have.

I'll be sharing out the plans when they are done, maybe we can work up a chuffing herd of Sabino engines!
Chris

[RReid]

I'll be looking forward to the Sabino, Chris.

[crueby]

I'll be looking forward to the Sabino, Chris.

Hi Ron,  Going to be a while, will be after the Holly model is done, which will be maybe spring?
Chris

[crueby]

More done on the crossheads, yesterday I got the last of the silver soldering done and cleaned up, and gave them a 'coat' of nickel plating to get the brass and steel sections looking the same.

After drilling the ends of the legs for the pump rods, this morning the parts were centered up in the four-jaw chuck and bored out to size with the compound slide set to a slight angle, just under one degree. I realized the reason they made it this way was that its the only way to assemble the crosshead on the engine. They could hoist the center section up into position, slide the tapered center in through the side of the engine frame, then add the bearing blocks at the ends. The taper is not meant to be an easily removeable one like a Morse taper, but to lock the parts together solidly on assembly.

After all three were bored out, switched to the 3-jaw and turned the center sections of the cross pins to match, without moving the compound slide unit, wanted that angle to match what was bored.

Took frequent stops to measure and check the fit, till the part would slide on to the desired spot. At such a shallow angle, taking off another thou moved the position a lot.


So, here are the parts so far, all fit together:

Next steps will be to cut out the center section of the main piece, so that the top of the con rod can get to the cross pin. Then will need to cut the tapered slots for the wedges at one end. Then can start on the bearing blocks for the ends of the pins.

[Don1966]

Looks good Dog,  but I bet you didn’t sweat solder them…….



 
Don

[crueby]

Looks good Dog,  but I bet you didn’t sweat solder them…….



 
Don

Correct! Flowed in from the side. The way they slide together, having the solder on first would have made it tough to assemble.

[Don1966]

Well there was a flat surface there on the top so the solder should of flowed good…..as fir the brass solder would wick very nicely. What I like about sweat soldering is less solder excursion!



Don

[crueby]

Well there was a flat surface there on the top so the solder should of flowed good…..as fir the brass solder would wick very nicely. What I like about sweat soldering is less solder excursion!



Don

Does silver solder flow better on a brass surface? Or is it because of the curve?