Author Topic: Elmer's Oscillating Cylinder Engine #42  (Read 5538 times)

Online swarfjunky

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Re: Elmer's Oscillating Cylinder Engine #42
« Reply #75 on: May 18, 2021, 10:53:16 PM »

Yup, I've had problems with drills much over 1/4" overpowering the taper adapter on my Sherline too, brass or steel. The MT0 is pretty small for that much torque.
Chris
[/quote]

About a year ago Sherline made available a tailstock with a #1 Morse taper to support their pen making customers. It's available in inch or metric and standard or zero adjustable handwheels. It increases the taper contact area by about 35%.

Rog

Online crueby

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Re: Elmer's Oscillating Cylinder Engine #42
« Reply #76 on: May 19, 2021, 01:26:26 AM »

Yup, I've had problems with drills much over 1/4" overpowering the taper adapter on my Sherline too, brass or steel. The MT0 is pretty small for that much torque.
Chris


About a year ago Sherline made available a tailstock with a #1 Morse taper to support their pen making customers. It's available in inch or metric and standard or zero adjustable handwheels. It increases the taper contact area by about 35%.

Rog
Sherline does say not to use it for high torque stuff, since the shell into the tailstock is so thin, but could be worth a try.  Sometimes I do wish I could sprinkle some Rapidgro on the Sherline and bulk it up a notch! Still  with some care and ingenuity it will make big parts.

Online swarfjunky

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Re: Elmer's Oscillating Cylinder Engine #42
« Reply #77 on: May 19, 2021, 03:40:55 AM »

Yup, I've had problems with drills much over 1/4" overpowering the taper adapter on my Sherline too, brass or steel. The MT0 is pretty small for that much torque.
Chris


About a year ago Sherline made available a tailstock with a #1 Morse taper to support their pen making customers. It's available in inch or metric and standard or zero adjustable handwheels. It increases the taper contact area by about 35%.

Rog
Sherline does say not to use it for high torque stuff, since the shell into the tailstock is so thin, but could be worth a try.  Sometimes I do wish I could sprinkle some Rapidgro on the Sherline and bulk it up a notch! Still  with some care and ingenuity it will make big parts.

Sherline's instruction sheet states the largest diameter tool should not exceed .375". I went for the #1 Morse taper because I felt the #0 was too small for drills over 1/4" as you stated and not to enable me to use drills over 3/8" by using a larger chuck.

Rog

Offline EricB

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Re: Elmer's Oscillating Cylinder Engine #42
« Reply #78 on: May 19, 2021, 04:04:55 PM »

Sherline's instruction sheet states the largest diameter tool should not exceed .375". I went for the #1 Morse taper because I felt the #0 was too small for drills over 1/4" as you stated and not to enable me to use drills over 3/8" by using a larger chuck.

Rog

Which instruction sheet is that?

Online crueby

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Re: Elmer's Oscillating Cylinder Engine #42
« Reply #79 on: May 19, 2021, 04:28:32 PM »

Sherline's instruction sheet states the largest diameter tool should not exceed .375". I went for the #1 Morse taper because I felt the #0 was too small for drills over 1/4" as you stated and not to enable me to use drills over 3/8" by using a larger chuck.

Rog

Which instruction sheet is that?

https://sherline.com/wp-content/uploads/2020/06/4112a_inst.pdf


Offline EricB

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Re: Elmer's Oscillating Cylinder Engine #42
« Reply #80 on: May 19, 2021, 07:17:23 PM »

Sherline's instruction sheet states the largest diameter tool should not exceed .375". I went for the #1 Morse taper because I felt the #0 was too small for drills over 1/4" as you stated and not to enable me to use drills over 3/8" by using a larger chuck.

Rog

Which instruction sheet is that?

https://sherline.com/wp-content/uploads/2020/06/4112a_inst.pdf

Thanks Chris. I was looking for that kind of information in the normal lathe instructions.

Eric

Offline EricB

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Re: Elmer's Oscillating Cylinder Engine #42
« Reply #81 on: May 19, 2021, 10:31:26 PM »
Practice makes perfect right? I made some test cuts on a bit of squared stock to see if my fixture choice would work.

Since I had just thrown the tools together to check clearances, I took it all apart to indicate everything in. I've used the tilting angle table before so I squared it up the way I had in the past, with the movable plate set at 90. Then I set it back to the 5.5 degrees I wanted and locked it down. I mounted the vise and indicated the fixed jaw square to the Y axis. I put the stock in the vise and made the first cuts. The picture shows how those cuts looked as they progressed. Not exactly what I expected. I finished the entire face and measured the stock which was no longer square.

More later, time for Jeopardy. :D

Eric

Offline EricB

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Re: Elmer's Oscillating Cylinder Engine #42
« Reply #82 on: May 20, 2021, 01:11:49 AM »
Obviously my setup wasn't correct. The cutter was taking more material off the far end of the part than the near end so the angle table wasn't square to the mill table. Sherline's directions don't say how to get there from here. They suggest you visualize what a misalignment would look like. Well it looks like the picture above.

To solve the problem I took it all apart and checked everything with an indicator. Turns out the bottom mounting plate wasn't square to the mill table, the pivot axis for the angle plate wasn't square to the mill table, and of course the top surface of the moveable angle plate wasn't square. Only the last one matters. What you're trying for is alignment of the imaginary line where the plane of the spindle movement along the Y axis (or in my case a plane perpendicular to the spindle axis) intersects with the plane which is the top surface of the moveable angle plate. That imaginary line needs to be parallel to the movement of mill table.

To get it right I had to start with adding shims between the mill table and the bottom of the tilt angle table until I could use the play in the other mounting bolts for final alignment.

The results are shown in the picture below. I recut the first side to square up the block, flipped it over and cut the second side. This time the edge of the cuts came out parallel with the sides of the block. After the second cut the block was still square so I did the short sides too. All the side angles came out equal.

I'm almost ready to try this on the real part. I'll probably mark out some features on my test piece and make all the cuts again just to make sure nothing moves.

Eric
« Last Edit: May 20, 2021, 03:12:52 AM by EricB »

Offline RReid

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Re: Elmer's Oscillating Cylinder Engine #42
« Reply #83 on: May 20, 2021, 02:07:10 AM »
Glad you got it figured out. I'm usually not smart enough to buy test piece insurance.
Regards,
Ron

Online crueby

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Re: Elmer's Oscillating Cylinder Engine #42
« Reply #84 on: May 20, 2021, 02:24:10 AM »
Great result, good detective work on the tilt table, something to work on for later!   :popcorn:

Offline EricB

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Re: Elmer's Oscillating Cylinder Engine #42
« Reply #85 on: May 20, 2021, 09:03:29 PM »
Great result, good detective work on the tilt table, something to work on for later!   :popcorn:

The tilt table is a very misleading device. It will do what they say but not how thay say it. Their website description says "With the base mounted square to the mill table, parts mounted to the tilted table can be machined or drilled at precise angles." That just isn't true. The moving plate has to be set square.

Eric
« Last Edit: May 21, 2021, 04:28:59 AM by EricB »

Offline EricB

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Re: Elmer's Oscillating Cylinder Engine #42
« Reply #86 on: May 27, 2021, 04:25:30 AM »
I made another test piece today. This time I used a block larger than the part I'm making to see if my setup could handle it. Let's just say it isn't as rigid as I'd like it. With the cutter feeding conventionally, chatter and vibration got out of control very fast. It was enough to unlock the Z axis and crash the cutter into the part while walking the machine across my work table. Not Fun. The solution was only increase the depth of cut only when feeding in climb. My part isn't as thick as my test piece so hopefully I won't run into the same problem.

The other problem with this setup is the operator is very exposed to the rotating tool.

Eric

Offline Flyboy Jim

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Re: Elmer's Oscillating Cylinder Engine #42
« Reply #87 on: May 27, 2021, 02:49:05 PM »
I've had the same problem with chatter with my Sherline Mill using end mills. I've had better luck using a fly cutter. In this case, the mill would have to be configured in the vertical position.

I'm also wondering if the piece could of been mounted directly to the Tilting Angle Table. Again using the mill in the vertical position.

Jim
Sherline 4400 Lathe
Sherline 5400 Mill
"You can do small things on big machines, but you can do small things on small machines".

Offline EricB

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Re: Elmer's Oscillating Cylinder Engine #42
« Reply #88 on: May 27, 2021, 06:23:52 PM »
I've had the same problem with chatter with my Sherline Mill using end mills. I've had better luck using a fly cutter. In this case, the mill would have to be configured in the vertical position.

I'm also wondering if the piece could of been mounted directly to the Tilting Angle Table. Again using the mill in the vertical position.

Jim

Hi Jim,

The only way I could control the chatter in this setup was to make lighter cuts as more of the side of the tool was cutting. It really only started when the width of the cut was greater than the diameter of the cutter. I guess the cutter was flexing more after that.

The problem with using the mill in the vertical position was the size of the part. There was not enough space between the spindle and the front of the mill column to fit the length of the cut. If you could mount the tilt table so that the pivot of the angle plate was parallel with the X axis of the mill then you could use the mill with the spindle vertical. That would take some extra mounting holes in the base plate of the tilt table but it could be done. A better idea might be an additional base plate that you could swap out if you needed to use the tool that way. I might add that to my to do list for later.

I finish the base using my setup as I intended today. No problems with chatter this time. I'm running out of parts to make.

Eric

Offline EricB

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Re: Elmer's Oscillating Cylinder Engine #42
« Reply #89 on: May 28, 2021, 02:46:46 AM »
Spurred on by the good results making the draft on the base, I finished most of the work on the bearing bracket. I still need to shape the sides. I had zero problems tapping the holes in it. Probably because I spent so little time on it.

I'm running out of excuses for not finishing the slide valve and all its associated parts. Maybe tomorrow.

Eric