Author Topic: CNC 4th axis up grade  (Read 3361 times)

Offline Jasonb

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Re: CNC 4th axis up grade
« Reply #15 on: February 12, 2021, 08:44:17 PM »
Mike, I did that with the free version, though I seem to remember you said your computer may be a bit old as being a problem.

Online Vixen

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Re: CNC 4th axis up grade
« Reply #16 on: February 12, 2021, 08:56:56 PM »
Jason,
Yes, that's the problem, I do not have a computer modern enough to run the 'free' version of Fusion360  and I trying not to get involved with Windows 10. I prefer Linux.

Mike
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Sometimes, it can be a long and winding road

Offline john mills

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Re: CNC 4th axis up grade
« Reply #17 on: February 13, 2021, 02:49:31 AM »
Hi
The 4th axis is good it means you can do all the sides in one setting the relation of each face right in relation to each face .if you have to re set using fixtures to locate each face errors creap in and holding the part can be difficult .years ago i was programming to make machine parts i had no cad cam  just paper and a calculator.
one machine had an indexer 12 divisions indexed with a M code it let me nearly compleat parts with one setting.
would have been very hard to hold after machining was started to do each face i just had to calculate the coordinatess from the centreline one job had added complications that the 2d drawing was bent part way along 7deg .if you can do each face one  at a time you can get the job done depending what  can do with your cad cam
system .have fun it can be interesting       John

Online Vixen

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Re: CNC 4th axis up grade
« Reply #18 on: February 13, 2021, 03:35:14 PM »
Jason, Achim,

Does Fusion360  machine all four sides from scratch, or is it clever enough to recognise and avoid those parts previously machined?

My Estlcam CAM software can only machine each of the 4 sides from scratch, no reduced machining.

Mike
« Last Edit: February 13, 2021, 08:39:34 PM by Vixen »
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Offline Jasonb

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Re: CNC 4th axis up grade
« Reply #19 on: February 13, 2021, 07:43:26 PM »
I think you need the paid version for that and possibly even the extra "manufacturing" element.

Offline fumopuc

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Re: CNC 4th axis up grade
« Reply #20 on: February 13, 2021, 08:25:55 PM »
Hi Mike,
picture 21 and 22 ist showing this reduced machining of the remaining material from previous operations.
Kind Regards
Achim

Online Vixen

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Re: CNC 4th axis up grade
« Reply #21 on: February 13, 2021, 08:38:41 PM »
Jason/ Achim,

I can see he reduced machining in the photos now you point it out.

Thanks

Mike
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Offline fumopuc

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Re: CNC 4th axis up grade
« Reply #22 on: February 14, 2021, 07:01:40 AM »
Hi Mike,
I will try to show a bit more of the possibilities and my learning curve to reduce the surface for the cutter to work on.
The X Y frame can be selected either by the contour of the model or parts of it.
Additional it can be defined, that the cutter has to stay inside the frame, maximum on the contour or beside outside the selected contour.
I.e., one of the deep pockets in the rear. Picture 30.
The selected contour here was given by the model, more or less random.
It was selected to remove remaining material from the last operation now by a 4 mm flat end mill, all the previous roughing out was done by 6 mm flat end mill.
Visible in the simulated tool path picture 31 and the result of it at picture 32.
Another option to reduce the x y frame is by a sketch.
This I have used for another roughing out with the 3 mm ball cutter now. Picture 33.
Machined very carefully in 4 steps.
This 3 mm ball cutter was my one and only at this time. Picture 34, 35, 36, 37.
The surface in this pocket was now very close to the overall of 0,3 mm overstock, so ready prepared for the overall parallel final machining.
Due to the missing spare cutter, my target was to give as less as possible load on it.
« Last Edit: February 14, 2021, 07:31:25 AM by fumopuc »
Kind Regards
Achim

Online Vixen

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Re: CNC 4th axis up grade
« Reply #23 on: February 14, 2021, 02:29:47 PM »
Hello Achim,

Thank you for taking the time to show how you can reduce the size of the area to be worked on. My CAM software offers a similar XY frame to work within, but not the contour option.

It all becomes a big trade off between machine time and the fineness of the surface finish. With any curved 3D shape, narrow line spacing, whether linear or waterline contours will produce the finest finish but can consume vast amounts of time, measured in hours or even days of machine time. It becomes a judgement as to how much hand finishing with files, or scraper and sandpaper you are prepared to do.

Even a small diameter ball cutter can only go so far into a deep cleavage, It may be necessary to use a rounded tip engraving tool to achieve the last detail. However the machine time involved will greatly multiplied.

Mike
« Last Edit: February 14, 2021, 02:34:18 PM by Vixen »
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Offline Jasonb

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Re: CNC 4th axis up grade
« Reply #24 on: February 14, 2021, 03:16:49 PM »
You will just need to add a higher speed spindle Mike so the small tools can be run and therefore fed faster to reduce overall time. ;)

As for reach add a few long neck tools to the shoping list

https://www.shop-apt.co.uk/2-flute-long-neck-carbide-ball-nose-end-mills-55hrc/page/2/

In fact the multi axis machines tend to use a more rugby ball shaped cutter where the side can be used more so the cutting speed is higher than the "dead" spot you get at the end of a ball nose tool.

Online Vixen

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Re: CNC 4th axis up grade
« Reply #25 on: February 14, 2021, 03:39:16 PM »
Jason,

If I bought one of those ' Long Neck Ball Nose Carbide Cutter 1.5mm Dia with a 16mm long Neck' for £12, I think I would be too afraid to give it ANY feed rate at all, no matter how high the spindle speed.  :facepalm:

Mike

PS, what speeds and feeds and depth of cut would be recommended for such a long thin 1.5mm dia cutter?
« Last Edit: February 14, 2021, 03:58:41 PM by Vixen »
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Offline kvom

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Re: CNC 4th axis up grade
« Reply #26 on: February 14, 2021, 04:24:03 PM »
This thread is quite interesting.  3D by flipping the work over in the vise was pretty well understood, but doing 90 degrees is excellent.  Even without a 4th axis holding the work in a square collet block would work.

Offline Jasonb

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Re: CNC 4th axis up grade
« Reply #27 on: February 14, 2021, 04:38:23 PM »
Mike, APT are quite good and give some basic cutting parameters if you click the individual item.

https://www.shop-apt.co.uk/2-flute-long-neck-carbide-ball-nose-end-mills-55hrc/long-neck-ball-nose-carbide-cutter-1-5mm-dia-20mm-neck-length-50mm-long-55hrc.html

Yes easy to do with a collet block, spin indexer or a vertically mounted rotary table or if working on the end of a long bar just hang it out the side of your vice.

What would really impress is if the work were steadily rotating and the cutter ramping along it's length while going up and down in Z to follow the shape :)

Offline tvoght

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Re: CNC 4th axis up grade
« Reply #28 on: February 14, 2021, 04:55:01 PM »
The link below is my initial venture into 3d machining using 2 orthogonal passes. I used the squareness of the stock as a 90 degree reference, hanging the stock off the end of the vice as jasonb suggests will work for small parts. I created the model using an open-source tool oriented for more artsy 3d sculpting, but it worked quite well and would generate an STL file. Then I used Meshcam to generate g-code for the 2 passes. Meshcam is a reasonably priced Windows program which will run under Linux using the Wine emulator. That's how I use it.
I don't say it's quality work, I';m just sayin'
https://www.modelenginemaker.com/index.php/topic,5293.msg111257.html#msg111257
--Tim

Offline tvoght

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Re: CNC 4th axis up grade
« Reply #29 on: February 14, 2021, 05:09:59 PM »
And some slightly more on-topic work using the 4th axis:
https://www.modelenginemaker.com/index.php/topic,4974.msg95012.html#msg95012
--Tim

 

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