Author Topic: Julius De Waal Corliss steam engine  (Read 2001 times)

Offline pieterb

  • Full Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 31
Julius De Waal Corliss steam engine
« on: January 10, 2021, 06:39:36 PM »
Hello all,

The attempt to build the corliss engine from bar stock has begun! I have seen in other build logs you normaly start with the big parts. I will have to search the material for these parts in leftovers and scrap bins, so I will make different parts as materials show up.

Now some advice on issues that I have at this moment:

On the drawings the cilinder is lined with a bronze bushing. If I would use cast iron for the cilinder and bronze for the piston, I think I don't need the liner.

The flywheel is really massive. If I would make this from solid cast iron, 90% of this expensive cast iron would end up in the scrap bin. I am thinking of making it in parts (center hub, spokes and a solid outer ring (tube, ring cut from slab.....). I would redesign the flywheel to make it in parts. My idea: make the hub, make nice spokes with mounting plates for the outer rim, braze the spokes in the hub, put the hub with spokes and mounting plates on the lathe and rectify outer diameter. Make ID of outer ring to fit the hub+spokes. Braze hub assembly in outer ring and rectify outer ring. It is a lot of work but I think it would look nice. See picture below for example.

I am open to advice, comments, ideas.......

Offline pieterb

  • Full Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 31
Re: Julius De Waal Corliss steam engine
« Reply #1 on: January 10, 2021, 06:43:18 PM »
Since I makes parts if I have materials I already started with the shaft. It is pre turned to 1mm above nominal size. Tommorow I will start to turn it to size.

We have a lift off........... :lolb: :lolb:

Offline Jasonb

  • Full Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 7806
  • Surrey, UK
Re: Julius De Waal Corliss steam engine
« Reply #2 on: January 10, 2021, 06:54:54 PM »
I don't think the bronze sleeve is used to create any steam passages it's just Julius liking for aluminium so you could cut the cylinder from a block of cast iron.

Have a look through Phil's thread for details of how he built up a flywheel to replicate the original, you don't have to do the rim in so many or any parts but it may prove useful.

http://www.modelenginemaker.com/index.php/topic,2154.0.html

Offline deltatango

  • Full Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 318
  • Melbourne, Australia
Re: Julius De Waal Corliss steam engine
« Reply #3 on: January 10, 2021, 09:15:10 PM »
Pieter, I also started with the crankshaft, the material was to hand and, to me, the shaft is the heart of the engine. Like Jason I think making the cylinder from CI with a bronze piston and O-ring seal is the way to go.

It's great to see another engine started!

David
Don't die wondering!

Offline pieterb

  • Full Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 31
Re: Julius De Waal Corliss steam engine
« Reply #4 on: January 12, 2021, 09:52:49 PM »
Today I finished the turning of the main shaft.
But my day was even better when I talked to my uncle about my new project. I showed him the plans and he said he probably had something for me. We took a ladder and he said to look on a sort of attic in his workshop and there was a real cast iron flywheel. I took it down and it looks realy nice. It has been up there for probably 50+ years. His dad made it long time ago. He was a mecanic who machined al sorts of things, they also made farming equipment etc.
When finished it would be some 2 inch bigger then the one on the drawing but also a little narrower, so the end weight should be more or less the same. Since my goal is not building a 100% identical scale model from an existing engine, I suppose it would work perfectly.
He asked me if I could use it, I said it was perfect. With tears in his eyes he said that his dad would be very very happy that the parts he kept and saved for all these years get a beautiful use in a project like this.....
Now there is no way back......

I also picked up a dividing table last weekend. It wil be very useful soon I guess.

Offline MJM460

  • Full Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 1320
  • Melbourne, Australia
Re: Julius De Waal Corliss steam engine
« Reply #5 on: January 13, 2021, 12:29:46 AM »
Hi Pieterb, I for one would make whatever modifications to the arrangement that are necessary to use that flywheel with its family history.

I would also not worry about the extra diameter and narrow rim.  Remember, it is not mass that is the main issue, but moment of inertia.  The contribution of each little bit of mass to moment of inertia is M x r^2, and the extra radius of the rim will easily compensate for the narrow rim having a little less mass.  The original design will not have been to a very exact requirement anyway.  A great range of flywheel inertia will work well.

What a privilege to have such a great project to show it off.  It will always be an additional talking point whenever you display your engine.

MJM460

 
The more I learn, the more I find that I still have to learn!

Offline Mcgyver

  • Full Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 294
  • Toronto
Re: Julius De Waal Corliss steam engine
« Reply #6 on: January 13, 2021, 01:08:33 PM »
great project - look forward to seeing it come together.

Do we know what engine Julius's drawings are of, or is it his own design?  He is such prodigious contributor to the hobby, but how I wish the pedigree of the engines drawn was included

Offline Jasonb

  • Full Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 7806
  • Surrey, UK
Re: Julius De Waal Corliss steam engine
« Reply #7 on: January 13, 2021, 01:49:12 PM »
It is based on the Arnold Throp design originally sold by Fleet and later Southworth. It is of the single cylinder engine which is the smallest of the various options that were available. Julius has scaled it up by approx 50% and metricated it.

It's the same basic engine as Ramon and deltatango are doing.

If you look at the bottom of any of Julius' drawings he gives the source along the top of the title block.
https://modelengineeringwebsite.com/Corliss_drawings_files/CORLISS2-A3-SHEET-01.PDF

Offline Mcgyver

  • Full Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 294
  • Toronto
Re: Julius De Waal Corliss steam engine
« Reply #8 on: January 13, 2021, 05:38:49 PM »
perfect thanks....apologies for not noticing the line above the title block.  Good form Julius!

Offline pieterb

  • Full Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 31
Re: Julius De Waal Corliss steam engine
« Reply #9 on: January 14, 2021, 09:15:24 PM »
Another couple of hours in the shop. I made the bearing stands in two pieces, wich I wil silver solder together. I just didn't have enough material to make the outer bearing stand. That will be for tomorrow.....

Offline scc

  • Full Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 930
  • Lancashire, UK
Re: Julius De Waal Corliss steam engine
« Reply #10 on: January 16, 2021, 07:02:27 PM »
Nice :popcorn:

Online gary.a.ayres

  • Full Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 1156
  • British Isles & sometimes France
Re: Julius De Waal Corliss steam engine
« Reply #11 on: January 16, 2021, 07:53:39 PM »
Wow... this looks like a phenomenally interesting - and for me educational - build.

I was looking forward to the bit where you fabricate a flywheel,  but you struck it lucky on visiting your uncle and it's great that you will be able to incorporate a bit of precious family history into your engine.  :Love:

Following...

 :popcorn:

Offline pieterb

  • Full Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 31
Re: Julius De Waal Corliss steam engine
« Reply #12 on: January 17, 2021, 08:59:45 PM »
Friday I picked up some cut off's of different diameters cast iron bar. Yesterday I took the 200mm diameter piece with me to work and cut it up to get the rectangular piece for the cilinder.
Today I started with de connection rod.

I have a question about the con rod bearings: If you look at the drawings they exist out of a single piece bearing and an adjustable wedge. The wedge is there to adjust wear in the bearing. Since the bearing is a single piece, this will not work. So this is a pure visual feature.
Are my thoughts on this correct?  Are there specialists among you who would make the bearings split, with a small gap so they are really adjustable? Or can someone give me a detail drawing of a real adjustable bearing?
Any thoughts?


Offline Ramon

  • Full Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 1926
  • Suffolk in the UK
Re: Julius De Waal Corliss steam engine
« Reply #13 on: January 17, 2021, 09:17:08 PM »
In real life they would be split and kept in position by the wedge - here's the one on my recently finished Corliss. The bearing itself was copied directly from a book on full size practice



Hope that helps you some Pieter

Tug
"I ain't here for the long time but I am here for a good time"
(a very apt phrase - thanks to a well meaning MEM friend)

Offline deltatango

  • Full Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 318
  • Melbourne, Australia
Re: Julius De Waal Corliss steam engine
« Reply #14 on: January 17, 2021, 11:56:50 PM »
Pieter,
Here is a picture of the connecting rod for the original Throp-Southworth design:



and the final product as I made it:



The angle of the wedges is 6 degrees and the diameter of the crankpin 7/16", I think you can scale everything else to your dimensions. I re-drew the whole design as a CAD model using Alibre but left all the dimensions in Imperial units.

Hope this helps.

David
Don't die wondering!

Offline pgp001

  • Full Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 779
  • West Yorkshire - UK
Re: Julius De Waal Corliss steam engine
« Reply #15 on: January 18, 2021, 09:08:53 AM »
This is the one for "Agnes" that I have drawn in Solidworks, all measurements taken from the full size engine.

Phil



Offline pieterb

  • Full Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 31
Re: Julius De Waal Corliss steam engine
« Reply #16 on: January 18, 2021, 07:42:42 PM »
Tug, David, Phil,

Thank you for the info. Are the bearings in any way secured to avoid side (left-right) movement or is the only way they are secured by the wedge?

Greetings

Pieter

Offline pgp001

  • Full Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 779
  • West Yorkshire - UK
Re: Julius De Waal Corliss steam engine
« Reply #17 on: January 18, 2021, 08:55:51 PM »
Hi

On mine the shells have a flange at either end to prevent side to side movement, and the outer ones at each end have a dowel peg to prevent them rotating in the con rod.

Phil

Offline deltatango

  • Full Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 318
  • Melbourne, Australia
Re: Julius De Waal Corliss steam engine
« Reply #18 on: January 19, 2021, 05:30:08 AM »
The Southworth drawings show them located by friction only so that is how I made them. How this works out won't be known for a long time :(

Here is a picture from a real one made by Galloway's of Manchester and currently in the Science and Industry Museum there:



the acrylic cover made photography difficult but you can see the flanges that Galloways used clearly.

David
Don't die wondering!

Offline Ramon

  • Full Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 1926
  • Suffolk in the UK
Re: Julius De Waal Corliss steam engine
« Reply #19 on: January 19, 2021, 08:14:40 AM »
Hi Pieter, there are several ways the rear engine bearings were held but like DT I was not sure that without some restriction sideways movement might occur.

In the book 'Elements of Steam Engineering I found a drawing of full size practice. Unfortunately I can't scan so perhaps someone with a similar copy could help - it's on page 134.

The rear part of the bearing has flanges top and bottom on one side only - the rear face has flanges on both sides to locate the bearing on the conrod.

The front tapered part of the bearing has flanges top and bottom but the front face on one side only.

The wedge of course is securely located by the bolt

Hope that describes it well enough.

Tug
"I ain't here for the long time but I am here for a good time"
(a very apt phrase - thanks to a well meaning MEM friend)

Offline PeterH

  • Jr. member
  • **
  • Posts: 1
Re: Julius De Waal Corliss steam engine
« Reply #20 on: January 19, 2021, 05:07:47 PM »

Offline pieterb

  • Full Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 31
Re: Julius De Waal Corliss steam engine
« Reply #21 on: January 19, 2021, 08:44:18 PM »
Thank you all for the great information and tips. I will do a small design change according original design in the book Elements of Steam Engineering.

I downloaded the book and will go true it but I was looking on the net for some more info and I found this site:

http://www.survivorlibrary.com/library-download/8-category/129-library-steam-engines

There are a lot of books on steam engine......lots of reading  :thinking: :thinking:


To the engine again: the main bearings exist out of 3 parts, bottom bearing half is in 2 pieces and a single piece to half. I suppose the bearings have a ring running over the schaft, picking up the oil in the bottom of the bearing house (I don't know the name in english but we have lots of them at work). Can someone confirm the bearings are constructed like this? I can't find the rings on the drawings, that's why I ask it.

Greetings

Pieter

Offline Ramon

  • Full Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 1926
  • Suffolk in the UK
Re: Julius De Waal Corliss steam engine
« Reply #22 on: January 19, 2021, 08:49:53 PM »
Thanks for that link Pieter.

As drawn the rings are for collecting oil as you say. Three piece bearings are more to full size practice so the choice is yours - I just went for split two piece and left out the oiling rings because I intended to make the oil aquariums

Tug
"I ain't here for the long time but I am here for a good time"
(a very apt phrase - thanks to a well meaning MEM friend)

Offline pgp001

  • Full Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 779
  • West Yorkshire - UK
Re: Julius De Waal Corliss steam engine
« Reply #23 on: January 19, 2021, 10:23:43 PM »
Agnes has a three piece main bearing on the bedplate, the model engine also has this feature.

On the drawing at points A & B there were thin wood strips fitted on the full size engine, mine has been machined to fit without the use of wood strips.

Phil


Offline Jasonb

  • Full Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 7806
  • Surrey, UK
Re: Julius De Waal Corliss steam engine
« Reply #24 on: January 20, 2021, 07:46:35 AM »
Pieter, if you follow this thread you can see some oil rings being made, fitted and on the next page a video of them working

https://www.modelenginemaker.com/index.php/topic,9323.msg228000.html#msg228000

Offline pieterb

  • Full Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 31
Re: Julius De Waal Corliss steam engine
« Reply #25 on: January 20, 2021, 08:33:35 AM »
Jason: your setup of bearings and oil rings is the correct one. The bearing lower part should be 1 piece, with the oil ring in the middle. The turning shaft will pick up oil and keep the shaft oiled, and the rotation will bring the oil under the shaft. The only thing that I would ad to your design is a oil pocket in the lenght of the bearing (over the complete length, just not on the last 3mm on each side. This way the oil is easely distributed over the whole length but does not escape to easy on the bearing ends.This is how it is done in real life. I added a cutout of a drawing from a bearing I recently worked on. i marked the oil pocket.

Now the Julius design has the bottom bearing half cut in two to make room for the oil ring. I think it is useless in this way. I think I will just make a 2 piece bearing to start with and if I find the courage maybe change the design to something more sophisticated....


In real life these oil rings (that I have seen already) are made so that they can be opened to (dis)assemble. They have hinge and a lock. Quite a challenge to make for a 24mm shaft....
I will give a training at work on high pressure pumps next week. This pump has these oil rings. I will take some pictures when it is disassembled to show what I mean.

greetings

Offline pieterb

  • Full Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 31
Re: Julius De Waal Corliss steam engine
« Reply #26 on: January 24, 2021, 07:55:27 PM »
Hello from snowy  :lolb: :lolb: (2,5 cm) Belgium,

yes there is snow outside, so time to heat the shop and do some machining.

I finished the connection rod and the bearing stands

I also cut some bronze to make the main bearing parts. The bearings came out nice but are not finished yet. I will make the grove in the upper part and the oil hole tommorow but I will have to grind a cutter first.

The shaft fits nice but it will need some fine tuning when the bearings are completly finished. I will probably put some ground pins in the bearings to keep them in place.


A general question: how can I insert the pictures between the text? I only see the "attachments" but then they appear below the text...

Greetings


Offline Kim

  • Global Moderator
  • Full Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 4488
  • Portland, Oregon, USA
Re: Julius De Waal Corliss steam engine
« Reply #27 on: January 24, 2021, 08:15:04 PM »
Hello from snowy  :lolb: :lolb: (2,5 cm) Belgium,

yes there is snow outside, so time to heat the shop and do some machining.

A general question: how can I insert the pictures between the text? I only see the "attachments" but then they appear below the text...

You're making some great progress Pieter!  And glad you are getting to enjoy some snow.  We haven't had any this winter yet, but we still may.

As for getting your pictures inline with the text - It's not hard, but it does require a bit more effort.   To do this, you have to host your photos at some external site.  Then, you embed a link to your photo in the body of your message using the URL tags:

          [ url] http://link_to_my_photo [ /url]

For the above, I have included a space between the opening bracket and the url tag, because if I didn't it would try to embed that link as a real image and it wouldn't work because that link is made up, of course.

Many people used to use Photo Bucket to host their images (including me).  But a couple of years ago Photo Bucket changed their policy and started blocking images to the free accounts.  This broke many people's photo links.  So most of us don't use photo bucket anymore. But there are many other photo-hosting sites that people do use.

It takes a bit more effort to embed your photos in your text, but to me, it is worth it.  I much prefer to read posts with the images embedded.  Makes it more interesting and easier to follow. That's my opinion only, so take it for what its worth!

Hope this helps,
Kim

Online crueby

  • Full Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 11980
  • Rochester NY
Re: Julius De Waal Corliss steam engine
« Reply #28 on: January 24, 2021, 08:25:49 PM »
If you have this setting turned on in your forum profile,  "Show WYSIWYG editor on post page by default." then you will see a whole lot of little icons when posting. If you click on this one:

then it will put up a little box for you to paste the url of the photo on the hosting site, and clicking okay after pasting will put in the tags that Kim showed. Both ways work fine, just personal preference.

Offline pieterb

  • Full Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 31
Re: Julius De Waal Corliss steam engine
« Reply #29 on: January 24, 2021, 08:32:59 PM »
Thank you for the info, I found the icon to insert a link bur didn't know how it worked. Can you give some examples of hosting websites that work well? At the moment I only have google photos but I think this doesn't work...

Offline deltatango

  • Full Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 318
  • Melbourne, Australia
Re: Julius De Waal Corliss steam engine
« Reply #30 on: January 24, 2021, 09:27:25 PM »
That is great progress Pieter! The parts look very good.

For picture hosting I use Microsoft OneDrive space that comes free with Windows. There are others...

David
Don't die wondering!

Offline pieterb

  • Full Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 31
Re: Julius De Waal Corliss steam engine
« Reply #31 on: January 28, 2021, 09:24:38 PM »
Hello everybody,

Some progress made in making the bearing covers al little more elegant.

I also started on the cilinder tuesday. Squaring the block went perfect. I got the feed on one side perferct. I continued today. Turned the block around and started roughning, and then............disaster........apparently my quill lock was not on.......

The mill dug in the part some 1,5mm to much. I will round over the corner but then will the error will not be gone. The edge of the error will end up just on the edge of the cilinder cover.

Any ideas on the repair of the part? Can I take of 2mm more and shorten the cover 2mm (same stroke and position of stroke but how about the position of the valves)?
I make the round corners first and put the rest of the error straight and solder on a small piece of cast iron? Can you solder cast iron anyway?


Offline pieterb

  • Full Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 31
Re: Julius De Waal Corliss steam engine
« Reply #32 on: January 28, 2021, 09:30:54 PM »
Almost forgot: I promised to take some pictures from the split oil rings.

Offline Admiral_dk

  • Full Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 2086
  • S°ften - Denmark
Re: Julius De Waal Corliss steam engine
« Reply #33 on: January 29, 2021, 07:27:26 PM »
I have honestly never tried it, but many hear swear to a two component epoxy, called JB Weld.
The main reason besides it's strength, is its ability to withstand high temperature.
So you could put some of this on the end gone wrong. Let it cure for 24 hours and then mill the part like you would have done anyway. As long as you end up painting it afterwards - no one will know ....

Another option I can think off - mill enough off to make it flat again. Silver Solder (the high temp stuff) another bit onto the end. Pickle it (clean away the flush, etc. in a bath/solution).
Mill it to size again - on all five sides (the sixth is still the same) - and as this also will be wissible -> Paint.

I might have forgot one or more other options.

Online crueby

  • Full Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 11980
  • Rochester NY
Re: Julius De Waal Corliss steam engine
« Reply #34 on: January 29, 2021, 07:51:58 PM »
I've used JB Weld on parts, would say its fine for fixing a cosmetic boo-boo, would not use it on something that will have a part moving against it. Good for a mating surface that is just having a gasket and another part pressed to it too, just not quite hard enough for a bearing surface. Also there are several varieties of JB, the Qwik version sets up fast, but is not as strong. And it is not quite thick enough to stay in place on a vertical surface till it sets, it will sag some. I usually put a bit extra on then file/sand it down flush with the surface, great for filling in a hole that shouldn't be a hole, a gouge in a surface. Careful using it, any on your finger will transfer to 18 other things!!

Offline Ramon

  • Full Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 1926
  • Suffolk in the UK
Re: Julius De Waal Corliss steam engine
« Reply #35 on: January 29, 2021, 11:25:55 PM »
I guess it's time to put my JB Weld hat on a again.

I'm not going to repeat what I have posted before Pieter but if you care to look here https://www.modelenginemaker.com/index.php?topic=7688.135 and scroll down to post 136 you will see the thoughts and practical tests I have done to prove it's suitability and strength.

My apologies in advance for posting pics on your thread but you may also find the following of interest to your build.

This was the first time I used it on cast iron both for cosmetic reasons - fillets etc and for bonding parts after previous use on model aircraft silencers.




And yes the engine is still in fine working order today but it has only run on air though.


This on the other hand is built from seven pieces of cast iron simply JB welded together the only screws (2 x 8BA) being to assist in holding whilst curing. This has run on 60 psi in a steam launch









You may not have seen it but all the pipework on my corliss engine was done with JBW as opposed to silver soldering and I have just begun another marine compound which again will have the major items made from composite parts JB Welded together. A slight mistake, smaller but identical in format to yours, has quickly been resolved with it too.

The comment about slumping is a relevant one - - there are two ways of dealing with it - leave the mix for an hour or so before applying it as fillets or filler (use it as mixed for bonding) or mixing some colloidal silicate in with it which turns it into a thixotropic mix that stays where you put it. Use the Standard not the fast cure and I've found it's best to leave it a good 2 days before machining it.

Hope that helps with your build - Tug
« Last Edit: January 29, 2021, 11:30:26 PM by Ramon »
"I ain't here for the long time but I am here for a good time"
(a very apt phrase - thanks to a well meaning MEM friend)