Hello from Belgium ------ corliss engine attempt

[pieterb]

Hello everybody,

I live in Belgium, ride and work on old motorcycles, do some general machining in my home workshop. On daily base I do mechanical maintenace in power plants. Last lockdown I started on a stuart s50 model engine. It stayed on the shelf for some time but now I finished the project[youtube1]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HRzUvjg0yfA[/youtube1]

Since I always try to challenge myself I would like to try the Julius De Waal Corliss engine, made from bar stock (no castings) in the metric version (easyer for me  )

Has anyone here made this one already? Are the drawings complete and/or correct?

Thank you

[Jo]

  Pieter,

Nice work on the S50 


I have only heard of one person who is planning to build (or might have started) Julius' version of the MEM Corliss - "Fizzy". He is still trying to acquire bits to make it out of.

Jo

[Kim]

Hi Pieter,
Welcome to the forum!
Nice job on the engine there, seems to be a great runner!
Kim

[fizzy]

Hi - I am making it x 1.5 bigger and have redrawn all the parts. All of the bigger parts are completed, just valve gear etc to make now. I have struggled with a few of the drawings but the one with the least detail seems to be the whole base - no problem as I will complete the engine and then machine the base to fit. It is a very simple build and most enjoyable - although there are a lot of holes to drill and tap! I have used the imperial drawings as they are more suited to how I read drawings (simple!)

[Dave Otto]

Welcome to MEM!
Nice job on the Stuart S50.

Dave

[steamer]

Welcome!!

Dave

[pieterb]

thank you all for the warm welcome!

Hi - I am making it x 1.5 bigger and have redrawn all the parts. All of the bigger parts are completed, just valve gear etc to make now. I have struggled with a few of the drawings but the one with the least detail seems to be the whole base - no problem as I will complete the engine and then machine the base to fit. It is a very simple build and most enjoyable - although there are a lot of holes to drill and tap! I have used the imperial drawings as they are more suited to how I read drawings (simple!)

@ fizzy: thanks for the info, I think I will give it a try.Time to gather some materials.........

[Roger B]

Welcome to the Forum   

[fumopuc]

Welcome to the group.


There are several build reports about this Corliss engine here at MEM.

[Ramon Wilson]

Welcome to the forum Pieter - Congratulations on finishing your S50  and 'bon voyage' on your new venture with the MEM Corliss. Several have been built and all have been fine runners so you should have few problems

Tug

[pieterb]

hello, I just discovered that there are 2 versions corliss engines from Julius De Waal online: the MEM version and the simplified Arnold Throp version. I would like to do the Arnold Throp version but al the comments where on the MEM vesion. Anyone experience with the Arnold Throp version?

[Jo]

Three of us have/are making the original Arnold Throp Corliss engine using the original drawings.

I do not know of anyone who is using Julius' drawings. I have not checked them myself

Jo

[pieterb]

Three of us have/are making the original Arnold Throp Corliss engine using the original drawings.

I do not know of anyone who is using Julius' drawings. I have not checked them myself

Jo

Ok, I supose the original drawings work with castings? Southworth castings? Are the original drawings also the Southworth drawings?

[Jo]

Yes: Arnold Throp originally designed an engine and the design was sold through Fleet Services . They folded and Arnold passed the design rights to his friend Peter Southworth to sell. Peter added some missing details to the drawings.

When Peter died the model rights passed on to Bob Potter. I am not sure if Bob sold the rights to Blackgates when he sold them the steam pumps 

Jo

[fumopuc]

Hi Pieter,
I have started some time ago to make my own CAD model, based to the Julius drawings.
So far it seems to be fine for me, but not a single chip until today.
The lump of Aluminium, specially purchased for it, is really huge.
May be a later to do project.




<a href="https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Rlhvl8YuSCo" target="_blank">http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Rlhvl8YuSCo</a>

[Ramon Wilson]

Jo - you have obviously dismissed my description of the origins of this engine on my thread on here and in the past.

Yes the engine was designed by Arnold Throp but it was on the commission of Terry Fleet of Fleet Engineering Services. It was sold by and not through Fleet Services and it was Terry that made all the patterns for the various versions that the engine can be built in. These were placed at a foundry that overnight shut down and 'disappeared' that not only meant the loss of the patterns but a considerable amount of paid for outstanding casting work. It was the loss of these patterns that caused the loss of this design to the ME world for several years. That is not perceived info but directly from Terry Fleet himself who assures me he still technically holds all rights to the design though has no longer any desire to be concerened with it

Arnold made patterns for just a single cylinder condensing version that was described in Model Engineer in the 1980's just when Fleet first advertised it. From the conversations I had with Peter Southworth it was never sold by Arnold and was not 'passed' to him.

As I have already described to you before, a conversation with Peter lead to him (Peter) telling me he had bought the patterns and drawings for that single cylinder at, quote' "A sale of Arnold's estate". It was that conversation that lead to the making of patterns for the rest of the design to which I built my engine. For some reason you seem to have a reluctance to accept this but I still have the letter from Peter telling me that which as you should recall I have posted before.

I have no personal interest in the matter as such but if you make a clear statement, you should be sure of the facts and relay them relatively.


Pieter, If you decide to make the version as drawn by Julius you may be interested to view my thread https://www.modelenginemaker.com/index.php/topic,7688.0.html which covers the build of this engine to the Throp castings and to David Thomas's https://www.modelenginemaker.com/index.php/topic,9540.0.html build of it currently being described

Just one observation and note of caution - it's a very heavy engine once finished

Good luck with your project whatever you choose

Tug

[Jo]

Jo - you have obviously dismissed my description of the origins of this engine on my thread on here and in the past.

Yes the engine was designed by Arnold Throp but it was on the commission of Terry Fleet of Fleet Engineering Services. It was sold by and not through Fleet Services and it was Terry that made all the patterns for the various versions that the engine can be built in. These were placed at a foundry that overnight shut down and 'disappeared' that not only meant the loss of the patterns but a considerable amount of paid for outstanding casting work. It was the loss of these patterns that caused the loss of this design to the ME world for several years. That is not perceived info but directly from Terry Fleet himself who assures me he still technically holds all rights to the design though has no longer any desire to be concerened with it

Arnold made patterns for just a single cylinder condensing version that was described in Model Engineer in the 1980's just when Fleet first advertised it. From the conversations I had with Peter Southworth it was never sold by Arnold and was not 'passed' to him.

As I have already described to you before, a conversation with Peter lead to him (Peter) telling me he had bought the patterns and drawings for that single cylinder at, quote' "A sale of Arnold's estate". It was that conversation that lead to the making of patterns for the rest of the design to which I built my engine. For some reason you seem to have a reluctance to accept this but I still have the letter from Peter telling me that which as you should recall I have posted before.

I have no personal interest in the matter as such but if you make a clear statement, you should be sure of the facts and relay them relatively.

Ramon, I have a set of these castings myself and brought them from Peter Southworth in 2004 http://www.modelenginemaker.com/index.php/topic,1295.msg17211.html#msg17211 . In writing what I did I was only repeating what I thought I remembered Peter telling me when he delivered them to me back in 2004. I do not remember your description of the origins of this model engine, I did not set out to say you are wrong or to seek to offend you I was only trying to help Pieter. I will try not to do so in the future.

Jo

[Ramon Wilson]

Oh 'Ramon' eh 

Not offended Jo - just trying to set the record straight.

This might jog your memory https://www.modelenginemaker.com/index.php/topic,1295.msg17231.html#msg17231 post #7 - you really ought to finish it you know 

There is another post of mine somewhere showing Peters letter to me regarding making the patterns but can't find it in a thread as yet - here you are though - remember it now?



Regards

Tug

[Jasonb]

Well that's a bit of a jump from an S50 to the Corliss particularly if you stick with Julius sizes that produce a larger engine. Had a quick look over the drawings and as usual there are some features that could not be machined as shown but a bit of an alteration to the design, or fabrication in place of cutting from solid should sort that out not to mention copious use of JBWeld.

I know that Blackgates took over the patterns for the "Lincoln" range that Southworth did as well as the pumps so they may well also have the Corliss ones. I know one of the members here was trying to get a set of the Lincoln ones from them but gave up after a very long wait so don't know if or when they may be able to supply anything for the Corliss.

[pieterb]

Well that's a bit of a jump from an S50 to the Corliss particularly if you stick with Julius sizes that produce a larger engine. Had a quick look over the drawings and as usual there are some features that could not be machined as shown but a bit of an alteration to the design, or fabrication in place of cutting from solid should sort that out not to mention copious use of JBWeld.

I know that Blackgates took over the patterns for the "Lincoln" range that Southworth did as well as the pumps so they may well also have the Corliss ones. I know one of the members here was trying to get a set of the Lincoln ones from them but gave up after a very long wait so don't know if or when they may be able to supply anything for the Corliss.

I also think that some parts need some fabrication, brazing a few seperate made parts together, etc to make it work, but I think it is doable. I asked the price for castings and plans at Southworth/Blackgates but I think they are not cheap, and then there is the import taxes (Brexit  )

[deltatango]

Hi Pieter and welcome to MEM. The Stuart engine looks great and runs beautifully - well done!

The Throp/Southworth Corliss engine is a step up from the Stuart in size and complexity, certainly possible but not a quick (or light weight) build.
The casting set I bought from Bob Potter may well have been the last Bob sold before passing his business to Blackgates. Right now I don't know if any more castings are or will be available so fabrication and carving from the solid may have to be the way to go. You can follow my progress at:

http://www.modelenginemaker.com/index.php/topic,9540.0.html

The drawings by Julius de Waal show a model 50% larger than the original and the flywheel is 375 mm diameter, even at 250 mm the casting I have was at the limit for a 260 mm swing lathe. For 375 you will need access to a bigger lathe than found in most model engineers w'shops! Another concern is weight, my casting set was 23 kg before machining and there hasn't been any spare metal, some bits failed to clean up to drawing. with a heavy base (necessary) I estimate the engine will be 30 kg at least - it's also nearly 1 m long so it's going to need a big shelf. Good luck with whatever you choose to do!

Also, could you please show us all what your workshop looks like? There is a thread for introductions.

David

[Ramon Wilson]

Though I downloaded the drawings at the time David I didn't take note that Julius had scaled it up 50% 

That really would make for a large model indeed - you'll need some decent kit to make that I'd guess let alone that finished weight - still if people can transport locos a big engine should not be dissimilar.

A recent try to source the Lincoln drawings and a flywheel casting proved fruitless at Maidstone and Blackgates - I would hazard a guess it will be a long time before we see their availability again if ever - fabrication of bed plates and cylinder blocks should be easy enough however - the cylinders do not have to be solid blocks they could be fabricated with JB Weld or silver solder as Jason does.

That flywheel is going to be a challenge at that size though 

Tug

[Jasonb]

There was a member with a Flywheel up for sale a week or two ago unless Fizzy bought it, this would be the original size not the enlarged one, that is the most work to fabricate or cut from solid unless a donor flywheel casting can be found.

With the large amount of aluminium in Julius' design it probably won't be that much heavier but your wallet certainly will be lighter though still likely to be cheaper than castings. His drawing is also only for the single cylinder engine so will end up about the same length as the compound with pump. If it were me making from Julius drawings then I'd go with Cast Iron block for the cylinders and also do away with a lot of the brass parts and revert to steel unless you like the bling.

If you can get a set of the Fleet or Southworth drawings from Blackgates then it may be worth drawing up your own metric version from them sized to suit available machines and designed to suit what methods you are able to build it with.

[fizzy]

Fizzy bought it !

[pieterb]

omg it's so cool to have so much great advice, tips and info. I will make a topic on my workshop (but I will clean it up first  ) and start a new topic on the corliss build.
thank you all for the warm welcome!

[pgp001]

Fizzy bought it !

Just looking at the tracking details, I reckon it will be on your doorstep tomorrow or Saturday.

Phil