Author Topic: Gardner "0" (Alyn Foundry) - crankshaft query  (Read 1058 times)

Offline Amblejo1

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Gardner "0" (Alyn Foundry) - crankshaft query
« on: January 01, 2021, 01:20:42 PM »
Happy New Year to ALL - may it be better than the past one.

I'm just looking at the drawing for the Alyn Foundry Gardner crankshaft - it shows the oil way in the crank pin coming to the surface of the pin on the side nearest to the main shaft.

I'm thinking that if the hole opened onto the opposite side (as shown by the red arrow on the image), centrifugal force would force the oil into the bearing more effectively.

Is my thinking misguided?


Offline Amblejo1

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Re: Gardner "0" (Alyn Foundry) - crankshaft query
« Reply #1 on: January 01, 2021, 01:25:16 PM »
I seem to be struggling to attach the image.

The file name (a .jpg file of 51KB)  is showing in the "Attach:" panel below, but it doesn't seem to be getting through - perhaps the description in words explains my query anyway??

Offline Jo

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Re: Gardner "0" (Alyn Foundry) - crankshaft query
« Reply #2 on: January 01, 2021, 01:31:04 PM »

I'm thinking that if the hole opened onto the opposite side (as shown by the red arrow on the image), centrifugal force would force the oil into the bearing more effectively.


Yes that is exactly what would happen. On my Centaur Gas engine the hole is on the outside for just that reason  :) .

Jo
Enjoyment is more important than achievement.

Offline Alyn Foundry

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Re: Gardner "0" (Alyn Foundry) - crankshaft query
« Reply #3 on: January 01, 2021, 01:48:36 PM »
Hello.

This has become quite the " hoary Chestnut " for this component.

Now in its 31st year I've actually forgotten how the original was done. At the time we, Martin and I reasoned that with the oil way facing " inboard " the oil would collect and " film " the crankpin rather than be flung out all over the place.

A notable point is that the original of 1909 vintage has " Babit " White metal mains and big end shells but we drew it with Bronzes as working with White metal is very tricky for the model engineer.

I can ask a few questions with the group to confirm what Gardner " actually " did and get back to you, if that's ok?

My own engine is done this way and has run 1000's of hours. Actually ran out the Bronze shells and crankpin but after changing them to Zinc alloy zero wear has been detected.

Cheers Graham.

Offline Alyn Foundry

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Re: Gardner "0" (Alyn Foundry) - crankshaft query
« Reply #4 on: January 01, 2021, 02:25:12 PM »
A group member is going to photograph his full size engine that's undergoing restoration at this moment, I'll post the picture later.

As a Post Script to my previous reply I should have mentioned that using Bronze bearings with Steel shafts will naturally wear the Steel component heavily unless " copious " lubrication is available. Since we started using Zinc alloy, many years ago, we've seen little no no wear on either big end or mains.

Another plus is that Zinc alloy melts on the gas kitchen range and can be poured into heated Steel moulds to make nice, gravity diecast components.

Cheers Graham.

Offline Amblejo1

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Re: Gardner "0" (Alyn Foundry) - crankshaft query
« Reply #5 on: January 01, 2021, 05:16:18 PM »
I have just checked the photos of the crank on the Ruston 4YHR that I look after at Thelnetham Windmill. On that the hole is outboard.

The big end on the Ruston is whitemetal in a bronze shell. Before I moved to Norfolk, the "chief engineer" had run the engine without continuous oiling of the bearing (the centrifugal oiler ring had gone missing, so they just used the supplementary starting oiler well and ran for half an hour or more). The inevitable result was that when I became involved and ran the engine after sourcing an oiler, the big end went into melt down.  We found somebody to remetal it and I spent many hours scraping to get a good fit and it runs nicely now.

I have used soft leaded gunmetal (LG4 I think) for my first stab at the Gardner mains - I avoid hard phosphor bronze as it eats unhardened steel for breakfast. If I have trouble, I have some white metal left over from when I made new mains for my full size Wolseley WD2, so perhaps I'll make myself a pattern and mould to cast some in BS3332A alloy (tin/antimony with a touch of copper to impart a little hardness).

Many thanks for your thoughts................John

Offline Chipmaster

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Re: Gardner "0" (Alyn Foundry) - crankshaft query
« Reply #6 on: January 01, 2021, 08:50:17 PM »
Twenty or more years ago I machined my Alyn Foundry Gardner 0 type crank pin with the oil hole facing outwards or outboard and the engine has run for hundreds of hours without any sign of big end bearing wear.
Leaded bronze was used for all the bearings but I don’t know its grade I just bought ‘leaded bronze’ .

Andy

 

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