Any chance of lathe and mill for £1500?

[LittleGhost]

Bear with me I will get a pic of the 'RED' lathe to show you what I meant! I cant think of the name of it and thought as it was fairly common name someone would know the company.
I like the look of this
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Myford-ML7-lathe-tooling-etc-Boxford-Colchester-Unimat-Model-engineer-/181649633471?pt=UK_Home_Garden_PowerTools_SM&hash=item2a4b2970bf
It has a few days to go so maybe I could sort something out regards seeing it



SEALEY!!! I found the red lathe lol
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Sealey-Metal-Working-Lathe-300mm-Between-Centres-/291342583853?pt=UK_Home_Garden_PowerTools_SM&hash=item43d55f082d

I couldnt find it at first and couldnt remember the name, I am assuming that this is not considered a great machine? To be really honest it looks a bit flimsy to me and the size might be restrictive? I prefer the older one myself and if its ok then at least I know that I can get a lathe for my money

[Stuart]

Logan

My best advice is to write down what you think you need in a lathe , then consider each item in turn

As Jason has said do not discount the offerings from Warco Arcuro Chester Axminster things have changed a lot in recent years and mostly they do work as delivered , some inc del. some chuck in a load of extras that you will need

If you go the used route what is the spindle nose mount ? A LOO mount or a a D1-3 are not that cheap .

Now turn your attention your the electrics you say you have single phase , OK that will limit your choice of older used industrial type lathes unless you get a phase converter or go down the VFD route assuming that the motor can be connected for 220 delta again a extra cost .

In no way am I saying a used older industrial lathe is not for you but it may come with extra baggage , missing parts bed wear , the list goes on

A good South bend or Boxford , but Myfords tend to run a bit dear

Now back to the list do you want/need a floor standing lathe or a bench top one
Power cross feed nice but not mandatory
Threading most older lathes and some new one only do infernal pitches without translation gears
With your age you may want to go with metric pitches
Do you want metric dials ? Note dials come in two types those which measure the actual cut and those which measure the reduction in the diameter

The list will be quite long but do give it a go
As other have said they are like cars first you buy them and then you need to run them , big old car may look cheap but the running costs soon mount up
Have fun and we are here to help / hinder your quest

Stuart

[Stuart]

Logan

Re the ML7

Why is it shown with the guard removed ? Note they use Babbitt bearings , they are good if they are good
But they are not available any more and a new sett of bronzes and shaft are £300 and they need to be scraped in not easy .i have done it.

Sealy keep away

As to the red I thought you ment arceurotrade sieg machines

Have a look 125 mm chuck ect metric an imp threading delivered for not much more
http://www.warco.co.uk/metal-lathes-metalworking-lathe-machine/302920-wm-240b-warco-lathe.html

To add to my previous post with a old machine if yor are unlucky to loose a spindle bearing they are mega expensive if you can get them a usual price would be more than your budget


Stuart

[Jasonb]

Logan you really need to decide on what size lathe you actually want, the red one you show will swing the same dia work as the ML7, OK its a bit shorter and a bit less robust but look into the spec a bit more. As Stuart says the red Sieg machines are a lot better than the Sealey as are the Green, cream and blue ones

Also if you are wanting to do bits for your RC Helis then a metric machine will allow you to cut metric threads far more easily and accurately.

As for milling an ex industrial machine will not have a model engineer friendly cross slide, ones with the hobbiest in mind will have a larger flat cross slide with tee slots so you can clamp work to it and also a vertical slide which will alloy you to do some milling on the lathe.

On teh subject of Helis think about the consequenses of replacing the nylon gears with aluminium. If you crash the gears won't strip but the next weakest thing up or down the line will get damaged eg a motor or rotorhead/main shaft

[LittleGhost]

Thanks Guys I am starting to get a better idea of what I want, still not 100% but the extra has started to focus me from 'I want a car' to what I actually would want from a car and if I am town driving etc (if you see what I mean). I didnt consider the dials at all! I am a native metric speaker so I am not sure how I would do with imperial.
I didnt think about spare parts for older machines!! I want a floor standing machine as I have the room and prefer to have a clear bench top. Axminster we have a very old one at school! and a 1950's Colchester Bantham that is HUGE!! But they mostly have a few small lathes with no visable make on and they are not very sturdy.
I will look closely at the new machines you mentioned, I am not so sure now on the old machine route unless I can get one in great condition (Ebay is probably not a go then) .
The panel for the work shop wont take a cheap 3 phase converter and a decent one would run about £1500 (my budget ), so I am stuck with single phase which is annoying as we had 3 phase at the old place.
I am going to have a think tonight about exactly what I want, I have been looking through the forum and while I am awe struck by the larger engines, they are not for me. Making wise I like to go small in scale and detail, I really admire the large engines but my preference seems to be the smaller scale stuff.
I had no idea about shafts so clearly need to swat up on that as I didnt have a clue what you were on about .So far I know I want something that isnt going to bend out of shape if I make a mistake (when I make a bad mistake), I want it floor standing in an ideal world.

Tooling came as a shock!! The vises etc really stunned me, then again these could be with me a long time if I buy right now so I see it as an investment.
Career wise I will be going into some form of engineering I just dont know which yet. My ideal job would be making prototypes but then again what are the realistic chances of doing that


I take the point on the helicopter, there is alot I want to change on it and to be honest if I do all the things I want to it then its little more than a template at the moment!
The motor etc is all being upgraded and I have already built the remote control unit from scratch, I also added loads of other electronics to it and balanced it, this will all need doing again but thats fine.

I am starting to lean towards metric as it seems the better option in my case, so to recap

New would be nice but I open to older machines if good and worth the money.
Floor standing is way better for me
Dosnt have to be bigger than the one I linked too and to be honest I wouldnt want to go much smaller.
I am going to look at the machines you have mentioned, I feel more confident hearing that these are not as bad as reputation made me think

[Jasonb]

You don't need to go with a rotary converter, there are plenty of VFDs about that will plug into a 13amp socket though if its a larger machine wiring it in is better and allow you to run 3phase machines with the added bonus of variable speed subject to the motor type.

The 250 series lathes I mentioned earlier are only a tiny bit less in capacity than the "huge" bantam, about 25mm less swing but they are a bit longer between centres to make up for it.

Don't be put off by the need for a cabinet, its easy enough to make a stand with storage underneath with a few bits of 100x 50 timber and an offcut of kitchen worktop.

[LittleGhost]

I like the WACO alot, Looking at it making a heavy duty stand would be so hard. I have a 8' Aquarium that I built the stand for (with my dad) and it would be similar I guess as I needed to make a stand that would take nearly 3 ton.
I like the fact they have a milling attachment as well, maybe I could get a deal if I ordered what I can in one go 
Its funny how the older machines look massive but really are not much different in size.

[Stuart]

Logan

As to size you have think out of the box

Now a brief history I have been at this for 40 plus year and have had Myfords all the from ML7 to the latest big bore job no contest here as I live 5 miles from the Chilwel works before they went bust

Over that time I have made many loco,s in 5 inch gauge at four foot long they are not small and they have been done in house no work done off site

My current project has a 240 mm flywheel and cylinders of 50mm bore all done on a Myford lathe
I do have a sieg milling machine SX3 to help out

But 60% of my time in this hobby I did not have a mill but used the lathe
So yes you have to think but you can do a lot of work with a lathe

Note I have not recommended a Myford not because they are no good but they hold the price to well for your budget

I do not do loco,s any more because I am on crutches and can't lift them around

With ref to the Warco .Note the swing as USA is 240 mm that's dia. We say 120mm centre to bed and you get a 4 jaw in as well so it's not that small yes it's a belt change , and feed done by change wheels not with a gear box but you do have a large range of threads
Stuart

[Jo]

Hi Logan, the guys are giving you lots of great advice  but I fear they might be trying to get you to run before you can walk  .

How many of the members started with something simple like a Unimat 3? If you make the mistake of sticking you finger in the wrong place at worst it will break it for you but most of the time just give you a bruise to discourage you from doing it again. It teaches you about, chucks, lathe tools and cutting tools angles. The bigger machines if you stick your finger in the wrong place  are not so forgiving 

Logan: is there a model engineering club locally or someone who has a lathe of their own? Go and talk to them, show your enthusiasm, let them show you their workshops, get them to show you how to use their lathe, get then to show you what the gadgets associated with a lathe are for. Go look at their models, talk to them about them, get them to invite you back to their workshops and when they offer you a freebie say "yes please".

Then think about buying your lathe and once you understand the lathe, you have a milling machine to look forward to

Jo

P.S. The cheapest place for a young beginner to pick up a lathe is at a model engineering club, it probably will be well equipped and you might even get the odd project to start you on your way. We all want to encourage the next generation   

[Roger B]

I do agree Jo.

When we start out we make mistakes  Fabian spent around £1000 having the bed on his Schaublin 102 reground. You could by two mini lathes for that money. A new bed bar for the Hobbymat is around £60. New main bearings for 'high grade' machines cost £thousands, for my mini lathe they were around £40. When lapping cylinders I could stall my lathe with my hand if something picked up, your Colchester would take my arm off.

Logan, If it was at all practical I would happily let you borrow my mini lathe and accessories to try out. The problem is I live in Switzerland and your dad may not want to drive that far. Total weight would be 75 -100kg.

[LittleGhost]

Hi Jo,
Thanks for the advice, unfortunately my nearest neighbor is 1/4 mile away and nearest town with a club is 45 miles each way................. Yes there are two farms near by with workshops but they dont have time to show me anything (I offered to pay as its scotland ) I understand the risks with larger tools and I am hoping that school will give me more access.
I have cancer so I am not at school a great deal but when I do go in I try and get into the workshop. We have a teacher near to retiring who is ace!! He has shown me stuff in lunch times but we get 45 mins and by the time I get there and get the safety gear on etc there isnt much time!
Dad isnt an engineer but has 40 years as a farmer so he can do what he calls agricultural engineering (Hits things with big hammers), he taught me too weld and cut steel with the Gas Axe. I can TIG weld but my MIG welding for some reason is rubbish. Currently I mainly use hand tools and have done so for a few years, its time to advance but choosing a start point is really hard. £1500 is for machines and I can probably get another £400 for other bits 

edit

I forgot to add I can use Taps etc and I am getting pretty slick with the file but thats because my hack sawing is just that  .
Actually I enjoy filing (is that normal?)  

[LittleGhost]

I do agree Jo.

When we start out we make mistakes  Fabian spent around £1000 having the bed on his Schaublin 102 reground. You could by two mini lathes for that money. A new bed bar for the Hobbymat is around £60. New main bearings for 'high grade' machines cost £thousands, for my mini lathe they were around £40. When lapping cylinders I could stall my lathe with my hand if something picked up, your Colchester would take my arm off.

Logan, If it was at all practical I would happily let you borrow my mini lathe and accessories to try out. The problem is I live in Switzerland and your dad may not want to drive that far. Total weight would be 75 -100kg.

I will just say its in a place I cant pronounce and we need the sat nav , I might wait until we are at the ferry before I explain where you live .
Its looking like I will go with something new like the WACO, I like that and thinking about it a bit more making a cabinet means I can make it to fit my height. My drill press isnt great but gets the job done, I have some measuring stuff from my grandad! More & Write from wayyyyyyyy back. There is even some metric stuff :O, he died just before we moved which is a shame as he was an engineer (boiler maker I think)

[Ramon Wilson]

Logan, I have just seen your reply on my Wide a Wake thread. It was not a user name I recognised so went 'in search'.

You have been given some sound and relevant advice in the previous posts so I will not try to add to it other than to say 'listen' to all of it, then make your own mind up exactly what it is you want and make the best of what ever you decide.

I am sorry to read of your situation but you are young and age is on your side so don't be in too much of a rush to begin with - I went through three (small) lathes in quick succession when starting out until settling on my Super 7 which has stood me well for over 35 years.

I wish you every success in finding what's right for you and developing a long and enjoyable model engineering career.

Kind Regards - Ramon

[LittleGhost]

Hi Ramon thanks for that. I might end up having to rob the bank of dad, but its sometimes easier to rob a real one!! I have a limit of 12 months, so as long as I have something within 6 months I will be fine. I can make do with the lathe at school for the next three months until I get something in 8 weeks time, otherwise I am going to have to go and get something next week  (if you see where I am coming from lol).
My problem is I hate waiting and I am eager to start, its a bit of a trade off because if I was utterly desperate I could sell off my other stuff. But its going to take me a while to get the workshop up to scratch before I put machines in it, I should probably post some pic of my work space before it gets fully under way.