Model Engine Maker

Help! => Machines, Tools and Fixtures => Topic started by: scc on February 09, 2019, 06:14:33 PM

Title: Raglan mill help
Post by: scc on February 09, 2019, 06:14:33 PM







Hi All,    My Raglan mill is in need of new leadscrews/nuts on it's x/y axis. I got away with it on the big Burrell but  cannot cope with the smaller stuff...locking gibs and adding/subtracting numbers to dials is not on :ShakeHead:
I am unsure about making new myself (the long one is to long for my lathe anyway. Thread is square 0.625 inch dia X 8 tpi, one of them is left hand. Are parts available?
Any ideas?







raglan
Title: Re: Raglan mill help
Post by: steamer on February 09, 2019, 08:13:38 PM
Is it the screw that is gone? or the nut?
Or both?

Dave
Title: Re: Raglan mill help
Post by: crueby on February 09, 2019, 08:22:10 PM
From the bottom photo, it looks like at least the screw thread is gone, the threads look very thin in the middle, that machine has made lots of swarf in its day to wear that much!
I don't know about full parts, but threaded rod and nuts are available from commercial suppliers - that looks like an Acme thread?
Title: Re: Raglan mill help
Post by: steamer on February 09, 2019, 08:30:44 PM
ACME is readily available

https://www.roton.com/product/acme-steel-screw-left-59391/



Dave
Title: Re: Raglan mill help
Post by: steamer on February 09, 2019, 08:38:02 PM
My thought is to document what is there completely.   Then purchase some threaded ACME Lead screw blank material.    Cut the old stub ends, and bore out for a close loctite fit and turn the OD of the threaded stock to fit.   Loctite them together and that takes care of the screw.

The nuts can be done similarly by boring the old nuts to accept a new nut loctited into place. 

Dave
Title: Re: Raglan mill help
Post by: steamer on February 09, 2019, 09:21:08 PM
If a lathe big/Long enough to do this isn't available SCC, and you're stuck,I'll do it for you.

I have a 9 x 36" and a 12 x 39"

Dave
Title: Re: Raglan mill help
Post by: Bluechip on February 09, 2019, 09:30:48 PM
I have no knowledge of Raglans, lead-screws et al ... but .... ages ago ( about 8 yrs.-ish ) An acquaintance was involved in a CNC engraver / wood-butchering device and I think he sourced some lead-screws from here:

https://www.automotioncomponents.co.uk/en

No idea if this helps or not ...  :headscratch:  :old:

Dave
Title: Re: Raglan mill help
Post by: scc on February 09, 2019, 11:35:52 PM
I like the Loctite idea Steamer Dave
Bluechip Dave,  thanks for the uk supplier info
At first glace I think the cost might put me off but will look into it.

Thank You all for help               Terry
Title: Re: Raglan mill help
Post by: steamer on February 10, 2019, 01:22:54 PM
The stock from Roton was not that expensive.  Shipping and VAT might be....

Dave
Title: Re: Raglan mill help
Post by: Jo on February 10, 2019, 02:16:59 PM
Lathes.co.uk do nuts, they probably also can point you in the direction of leadscrew suppliers.

Eric reckons it will cost more than the mill is worth  :(

Jo
Title: Re: Raglan mill help
Post by: scc on February 10, 2019, 08:00:59 PM
Eric could well be right Jo.     I've been looking in to it and I reckon I could buy some Acme taps and make new nuts.    I also think I could screwcut a new short shaft (the left hand one).  Looking closely at the long shaft and measuring flank thickness I think it will be OK with just the new nut.    I know it's an old machine but what could I replace it with and at what cost?          Terry
Title: Re: Raglan mill help
Post by: pgp001 on February 10, 2019, 10:58:34 PM
Why dont you add some DRO kit to it. That will overcome the problems with the worn screws.
They are available at very reasonable cost these days.

Phil
Title: Re: Raglan mill help
Post by: Admiral_dk on February 11, 2019, 12:20:40 PM
I put a DRO on my lathe for similar reasons - this works nicely in regard to moving a distance, but not so well in regard to finish to the surface I'm doing with the lathe …. so a DRO isn't a complete solution in it self.
Title: Re: Raglan mill help
Post by: Steamer5 on February 11, 2019, 01:15:48 PM
Hi Terry,
 Think I've mentioned before my Dad has the same mill.
He brought it from a guy who had refurbish it. I'm not sure what was done to it, I'll ask Dad if he can remember, hes had it for quite awhile &  :old: age is creeping up on him.

On the cost front...well its either fix what you have, OR buy a replacement! I guess you could sell off the Raglan as parts to offset the new mill but I think that would be a pity!  NO I'm not looking at buying yours for spares! The cost to get it here would be horrible!

Cheers Kerrin
Title: Re: Raglan mill help
Post by: scc on February 11, 2019, 09:27:20 PM
I have had a play with the lathe and had the right change wheels for once. So I can cut a LH 8 tpi :whoohoo:  Next job is to make a suitable cutter and see what happens. If all goes well I shall order the taps for the nuts.
Thank you gents for the dro thoughts...might need to do that as well but probably only on the "modified digital caliper" route due to my limited budget.            Cheers     Terry
Title: Re: Raglan mill help
Post by: Florian Eberhard on February 11, 2019, 09:39:54 PM
Hi Terry

To me it looks as if the long screw would still be in pretty good shape - maybe just a wrong impression? But I would check that out before looking for a new screw.
The front one defenitely needs to be replaced.
Now, maybe you could adapt the acme screws (Spare parts...) from another (chinese) milling machine - for example the BF20 Design for your machine?

The Reason why i would think about htat is that - although the chinese acme screws also will not be the most accurate ones - they are most likely more accurate than a standard precision acme screw. (Which are allowed to have 0.3mm deviation per 100mm length in european "standard precision)
This is quite a lot for a milling machine - expect if you are going to use a DRO - then it won't matter. But otherwise you won't get too happy with a standard screw.

Another benefit would be that you will also get a spare nut which fits to the leadscrew...

Cheers Florian
Title: Re: Raglan mill help
Post by: steamer on February 11, 2019, 10:06:49 PM
Florian
True that, but with a dro, its less important.   Some screw stock on this side is better than others.
Dave
Title: Re: Raglan mill help
Post by: steamer on February 11, 2019, 10:12:53 PM
 Terry    if your lathe will cut that acme.  Just do it.   8)
Dave
Title: Re: Raglan mill help
Post by: scc on February 12, 2019, 09:16:30 PM
First practice on some scrap bar and a cutter ground by eye :ShakeHead:    Necessary before I spend money on taps.    I need to set up a carraige stop to make it easier to pick up the start point for every cut, and obviously grind a tool correctly.

I am not entirely convinced that I am dealing with an acme thread :thinking: Looking at an unworn end the thread flanks look parallel..a square thread? Surely an acme won't wear that way.   Unfortunately I do not  possess a good enough camera to show it. Would a square thread have been used?  More advice needed,
Title: Re: Raglan mill help
Post by: steamer on February 12, 2019, 09:28:38 PM
First practice on some scrap bar and a cutter ground by eye :ShakeHead:    Necessary before I spend money on taps.    I need to set up a carraige stop to make it easier to pick up the start point for every cut, and obviously grind a tool correctly.

I am not entirely convinced that I am dealing with an acme thread :thinking: Looking at an unworn end the thread flanks look parallel..a square thread? Surely an acme won't wear that way.   Unfortunately I do not  possess a good enough camera to show it. Would a square thread have been used?  More advice needed,

A square thread is a possibility, but square threads are thread milled in general.   For the replacement, I would go with an Acme.    If your convinced that you want to turn your new screws, I would get the tap, and tap a small piece to make a gauge...    then you can cut it to fit nicely.   

Dave
Title: Re: Raglan mill help
Post by: scc on February 12, 2019, 10:02:02 PM
Thanks Dave,      I think that's the way to proceed.

Terry
Title: Re: Raglan mill help
Post by: Steamer5 on February 13, 2019, 11:39:15 AM
Hi Terry,
Looking good!
I spoke to my Dad last night about his mill. He cant remember what was done to it prior to him purchasing....given he's pushing 92 & he's had the mill he thinks 20 odd years not surprising really! The guy that did the refurbish is still around but lives 450 km's away, I'm sure he could help out.

I'll give Dad a call & ask if he can work out if the thread is square or Acme, & just to make sure I've got it right you are looking at the X & Z axis threads?? I'm off on holiday latter today......I'm at work ( Oooooooo he used THAT word    :Mad: :cussing:) & its a bit after midnight here...but will endeavor to get you the info ASAP!

Cheers Kerrin
Title: Re: Raglan mill help
Post by: scc on February 13, 2019, 05:34:51 PM
Cheers Kerin but I am going for the acme whatever.
Have a great holiday and give my best wishes to your dad.

Terry
Title: Re: Raglan mill help
Post by: Steamer5 on February 14, 2019, 04:30:51 AM
Hi Terry,
 That’s fine, when I told him that you had built a 4” traction engine on yours & that he would have to up his game, he thought you were very keen! Will pass on your wishes.
Look forward to how you get on with the refurbishment

Cheers Kerrin
Title: Re: Raglan mill help
Post by: scc on February 16, 2019, 08:43:01 PM
Thanks all for comments.     Taps arrived today so I had better get started. The original nuts do not look very well made, nothing looks concentric.  I made up a plug to approx root diameter, stuck it in the nut and set it up in the four jaw. I then bored the nut out to 0.75"
The next move is to bore and thread some round bar and loctite into the nut.
A few questions.......what grade of loctite?
                              What clearance is needed for the loctite?
                              Is a 12.5mm tapping drill ok or do I need to go bigger?


Advice obviously required and appreciated                             Terry
Title: Re: Raglan mill help
Post by: steamer on February 16, 2019, 08:46:13 PM
High Strength Cylindrical retaining


Loctite 648    0.002" clearance...and work fast to get it in there.

Love is a wonderful thing....but 648 is forever....or a torch...which ever comes first


Dave
Title: Re: Raglan mill help
Post by: steamer on February 16, 2019, 08:48:37 PM
And ....I found this...It's for the Clausing...which is my mill...and is what I'll be doing...probably in the not so distant future....

I attached it for reference.....


What your doing looks great!   Keep going!

Dave

Title: Re: Raglan mill help
Post by: steamer on February 16, 2019, 08:55:24 PM
3/4-10 right?

Title: Re: Raglan mill help
Post by: steamer on February 16, 2019, 08:57:03 PM
Let me get my Machinery Handbook....hang on

Dave

Title: Re: Raglan mill help
Post by: scc on February 16, 2019, 09:01:31 PM
Dave, mine is 5/8 x 8
Title: Re: Raglan mill help
Post by: steamer on February 16, 2019, 09:09:10 PM
OK   for 5/8-8 regardless of class I get a 1/2" tap drill     12.7mm   

https://www.engineersedge.com/hardware/internal_acme_thread_13361.htm

Dave
Title: Re: Raglan mill help
Post by: scc on February 16, 2019, 09:17:49 PM
Thanks for all the help Dave, It'll be a day or three before I get in the shed again. That Clausing looks a handy machine.

Terry
Title: Re: Raglan mill help
Post by: steamer on February 16, 2019, 09:19:53 PM
thanks Terry....It is...and this one came from a dear friend.     Ray Hasbrouck.

He bought it new in 69....and it's made a lot of parts....and is in need of some TLC sooner or later.

Dave
Title: Re: Raglan mill help
Post by: steamer on February 16, 2019, 09:30:37 PM
My machine has a factory riser, so it's a bit taller than the one in the article.   Comes in handy.

Dave
Title: Re: Raglan mill help
Post by: scc on February 22, 2019, 09:20:33 PM
Time for a bit more progress.  I think this machine has had a rough time before I found it, the gib strip on the rising knee seems to have broken and had a welded repair. I shall leave well alone because it all works well on Z axis.
One of the leadscrew nuts is brass, the other bronze :ShakeHead:  I have bored them out and inserted new brass centres ( 0.002" gap and loctite 648....Cheers Dave :ThumbsUp:) I think I shall still pin them though.    I started to tap the first bush while it was still in the 4 jaw but could not get enough grip so have decided to tap them "assembled"...easier to hold.
Leaving loctite to set I started on the Y axis screw.  The old eyes were getting tired grinding the acme thread tool so stopped until tomorrow.

Terry
Title: Re: Raglan mill help
Post by: steamer on February 22, 2019, 11:49:27 PM
The picture Below is a Ultra precision drum lathe

It puts a optical finish on a copper plated steel drum weighing up to 3000 kg

the headstock has a 16 HP frameless electric motor

The stator of that motor is held in place with Loctite 648.

Considering I was the Lead Engineer on the project.....

I think the Raglan will be fine......but it's your "rice bowl"..... 8)

Dave
Title: Re: Raglan mill help
Post by: b.lindsey on February 23, 2019, 12:52:17 AM
Interesting lathe Dave  :o

Bill
Title: Re: Raglan mill help
Post by: steamer on February 23, 2019, 05:58:24 AM
Terry   do make sure you tap drilled to 12.7mm and not 12.5 like you were going to.   Thats a lot for a tap to deal with.
Title: Re: Raglan mill help
Post by: scc on February 23, 2019, 09:09:32 AM
Dave,  Tapping drill was 1/2" as per your suggestion earlier in the thread.     That looks some machine.....no need to pin it then :Lol:
Thanks         Terry
Title: Re: Raglan mill help
Post by: steamer on February 23, 2019, 01:29:41 PM
 Nuts should withstand 150 to300 ft pounds of torque....
Title: Re: Raglan mill help
Post by: steamer on February 23, 2019, 07:03:42 PM
How you making out Terry?
Title: Re: Raglan mill help
Post by: scc on February 24, 2019, 11:10:22 AM
Dave, I've ground my cutting tool and finished the thread on the short leadscrew, just the handle end to machine so quite happy with that. Left hand nut not yet tapped so that is next job before last few thou on screw to get a good fit. The long leadscrew is more of a problem...I have finished it's RH acme nut having forgotten that the screw looked like a SQUARE thread...it is :facepalm2:  It seems my only option is to remake the nut. I have cut an internal square thread before on the Burrell brake assy. so onwards and upwards as they say :cussing:
I obtained the Raglan many years ago for £60 from a reclamation yard!! so it owes me nowt.    Now and again I think of a new one, maybe SiegX2.7L...A bit fed up at the moment.    Thanks for your help and interest :cheers:

Terry
Title: Re: Raglan mill help
Post by: Jo on February 24, 2019, 11:24:37 AM
Mike I seem to recall JasonB has a little used one of those to dispose of  :-X

Jo
Title: Re: Raglan mill help
Post by: steamer on February 24, 2019, 01:18:12 PM
 :I will second Jo's comment, and as a back up, ill help with the new long screw if you need someone to turn something for ya.    Us engine nuts gotta stick together :cheers:
Title: Re: Raglan mill help
Post by: scc on February 24, 2019, 01:25:01 PM
Cheers, Jo and Dave,            I do appreciate your offer. It's a pity about the Atlantic :shrug:   For the present I shall pursue plan c and modify the RH nut.     Terry   Thanks again
Title: Re: Raglan mill help
Post by: Jasonb on February 24, 2019, 01:26:32 PM
Mike I seem to recall JasonB has a little used one of those to dispose of  :-X

Jo

Not ready to get rid of yet and it is the standard length table, long table is a bit much overhang for all but light work. Though it would make a bit more room for the new CNC.

Splash out on a SX3.5 DZP they make sparks fly :)
Title: Re: Raglan mill help
Post by: steamer on February 24, 2019, 01:34:38 PM
Cheers, Jo and Dave,            I do appreciate your offer. It's a pity about the Atlantic :shrug:   For the present I shall pursue plan c and modify the RH nut.     Terry   Thanks again

Fair enough   but the offer stands.   Keep it warm on the back burner... :cheers:
Title: Re: Raglan mill help
Post by: Jo on February 24, 2019, 03:14:19 PM
Cheers, Jo and Dave,            I do appreciate your offer. It's a pity about the Atlantic :shrug:   

I thought you were in Lancashire = UK is there another one  :o


JB welcome to the world of having multiple machines to choose from :-X Next you need a couple more lathes, but a DRO on the one you have would be a good start   ;)

Jo
Title: Re: Raglan mill help
Post by: scc on February 24, 2019, 06:35:37 PM
Hi Jo,   I am in Lancashire but Dave steamer is in the USA
I have made a little progress, the short screw is now complete apart from handle keyways.   (need to buy a woodruff cutter)
At first the nut would only engage about one turn so took another minimum cut...just polishing in reality......nut engages easily. I thought I'd cocked it up :'(   However I set up my DI and tested axial movement and could only get just under 2 thou.  I know it will bed in but it has to be better than before.   Next move is a new square thread insert for the RH screw nut.
I must admit I may still buy the Sieg....... :thinking:

Thanks All for your interest and support.         Terry
Title: Re: Raglan mill help
Post by: steamer on February 25, 2019, 12:50:09 AM
That looks great Terry!!!

Keep it coming!!!

Dave
Title: Re: Raglan mill help
Post by: scc on February 26, 2019, 10:05:17 PM
More progress,   sort of ;)  need to cut the keyway    no mill, not even a vertical slide!  However I clamped the leadscrew onto the small lathe toolpost, put a 3/32" endmill in the 3 jaw.....one keyway :whoohoo:
Next move was to bore out the acme insert and make a new one with a square thread. Feelers give the gap at 0.062" and the thread width is also 0.062"  Later I shall grind a new tool for the job.  Good news is that the assembled short leadscrew assembly is perfect :cartwheel: I expected an improvement but not to this degree            Chuffed!!

Terry
Title: Re: Raglan mill help
Post by: steamer on February 26, 2019, 11:51:06 PM
Congrats Terry!!!!! :jumpingsmileys: :drinking-41: :AllHailTheKing:
Title: Re: Raglan mill help
Post by: scc on February 27, 2019, 05:09:51 PM
Cheers Dave
Title: Re: Raglan mill help
Post by: scc on March 01, 2019, 09:53:06 PM
.On the last lap now. I've cut the RH square thread in the nut after making a replacement insert. I have to admit to finding this bit stressful. I do not have an accurate means of checking the thread during the process. All I could do was rely on the accuracy of my toolbit grind and the backlash equipped cross slide dial. Eventually I got the leadscrew to start but go tight. Not able to decide if the problem was thread width or depth I tried engineers blue. After considerable tickling I chickened out of further cuts and settled for a small bit of stiffness. (it will bed in :shrug:) Nearly re-assembled it looks as though the old Raglan is good for more swarf making so that is the end of this thread.  I have appreciated all your inputs, thanks for looking in :ThumbsUp:       Terry

PS.. laptop playing up so will post photos asap :headscratch:
Title: Re: Raglan mill help
Post by: scc on March 01, 2019, 09:58:18 PM
photos as above         Terry
Title: Re: Raglan mill help
Post by: steamer on March 01, 2019, 11:26:10 PM
Congrats Terry!  Nice job!
Dave
Title: Re: Raglan mill help
Post by: Jo on March 02, 2019, 07:40:16 AM
Nicely done Terry, looks like your Raglan is ready for another 50+ years of swarf making  :whoohoo:

Jo
Title: Re: Raglan mill help
Post by: Steamer5 on March 28, 2019, 09:11:35 AM
Hi Terry,
 A bit late but well done! Now is it another traction engine?


Cheers Kerrin
Title: Re: Raglan mill help
Post by: scc on March 28, 2019, 10:40:06 AM
Hi Kerrin,        Not likely!    Just a small slide valve mill engine,             Cheers             Terry