Model Engine Maker

Engines => Your Own Design => Topic started by: Ramon on February 02, 2019, 10:43:35 PM

Title: The Oliver Tiger Mk III - a 5cc Version
Post by: Ramon on February 02, 2019, 10:43:35 PM
Hello Guys,

Before work resumes on the Corliss build I have decided to have a slight detour and have a go at making a 5cc version of the 2.5cc Oliver Tiger Mk 3. This beloved British made engine is one I have wanted to add to the others so far made but have baulked so far because of the rather complicated crankcase shape. It will be the first time machining a front induction crankcase from solid has been attempted and though the machining will be similar to the inlet on the rear induction Super Tigre (correct spelling!) made previously the addition of webs and the front bearing housing will add complications – hopefully however with some careful thought and machining, along with a fair degree of fettling, the shape will evolve to give a reasonable rendition of the original casting

These two images give an idea of the task ahead - this is an earlier version of the Mk 3, and is marked on the case as having been tuned by one 'George Copeman' - note the small lightning bolt under the exhaust in the second pic

(https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/lY8GfMwTJrEKqLzHj3g6MqQ6ft_XHltbR5HOyTGZOTgY10MrxCNE5at-vqsuUCb1ZFvR6D10cWFKEhdiEEPM8RSJSBZS-kfEExLJ3NjkfLjbAiZMdXHcCX4jJVrEofcoUMtDCyAvg9Wn0FVxuD14IYf89YAG9yX6iu8WhzP_IEyMejvpCIYm1n_FsiIkdT1Y0a5yAXPvPBAj88PzduEVfq0cXgYsgsWLgjbD9A-7Vo_KOvzcDRQYdHmgzDSXe1PkX0tZdqx071LAeg67o_bTVecNTYMIa2YF-5xKZ9zyTMBEmJRUmXfOPpu9l6q26ZsEdAqdaNCBx9W4OtDrOyXjDqgjln7YIJZPlY283KrsZ9oDomJm6UT1uVLwybgvN302zqclZ2hnzG3x4d7WzkFP-aWjPwduzVje-OqbQBytJI1kx_-vVidPEHk1eB8m6bnZB6u1OYOy1CWXOq-4tTGKfE7XsaC-RSKIgo7WgThmIF4Hylwk5dO7-yQ2rPqq30C9Cfeykf-MgpFbSk-qwY44hL6eletPPnEtO45s71YKHI90BuSt1QQPfkI-Rif1jmpAx8XcuNqkj1JgZvK8eF4aWxzlRVKGeHq7vHhKx8pXIrtLX1jxudwk10qMARc0yPgdfTlmheYhYUJKQF1h028IWLTSuw=w1218-h913-no)

(https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-w6p-tt0v4oTD1pso2hliTWvLmG7H0HTnmSyTDM-D-pTV1h74HKGPG4DdTM7BcyR9Hu-bGxts1gp11NJD82F4509vTBzbdCTUhsBsWei6TnHrbECL_toXZUTn9USpVVEULrJ3Y6l0g9yP523Jwl02MdRyR35XlnMY9WzAzAbZztkyB7UTuTB8cLyA-HBrWPTRf1jYRFIKfsVrOfJM8HQNd2jhZMX_FcjaxRss8sVc4e8MCE1IGh7-T3AhZAYAQaTHhIihrx4U5E8shBmrBdCJyElvk74ikzUMlTqWssMdwcd8m_U_h_I5i9eoSws8KAMOIghIkKWxJML8zEp7PPa1fz3qX2k2Diqh6bXK4NUTMm_CvThegWPnPm-J46Rlth94KHMfGt0mIpU6MJXWG7GWSU-jHdwEovwbjdepWLGnKmNsZkiEWv5VnRNuyMOfPNjzf-_pykYRbZQf7taY6qYrA3ryZC0qaptSLB7tRUc01lK1mYbK_yiq72Kd5a-OAE1rOQjnVdBQuSZw7vNrERuChCJqo11zyz-tgRlAU9WwJXK2gKSA3_gScG_238-LWt1JPsvD9QD_NgJN74PMh-jBcG372JkyO1JGpk4g6Jgk464fckmFTqppToGXDSZBE9ve8970D66pjdW12UxYxJ-Nw38Rg=w1218-h913-no)

This is a Russian copy of a later Mk3 produced after the originals ceased production. Various copies - rather 'differing versions' of this engine have been produced in China, Russia, Australia and here in the UK such is it's popularity and one that remains to this day

(https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/6MyIcFRSXqUlqXaMREDiU96qTBZh8ooipfZUc4s6y6EDZ2NAvclbV3sbQExkinfI9QOh-twj0DOEO_ZjzgW8tq-oRIC98bphcW0-a-1F8OM1BK_r0r9LykCExBXRCGngxOZ4d72pqg5diAWxrnxLib-KEoOYTkTIkigpQTAnJcN3A_egLPQ_xkIN7YeQUWr6YRxPY5g7FTM8J9GVLBHotARoMULmJnEGEiC-deVlDCMI3-zCa1a_nhlTnOFuKTB7uU5CV-dtMhBF6IyrcxhnKeFNoAYOH0nbVIleltZXN2G_hfoBZyWOBI2wTNf7tJMVyx3wF6THNewxo6kRz9VhU1bHmhR9NDUKQKulUGKE7fafJFc7J_wVPt3HIo0LJ2CUKK6dQtShIx3ozCJuqCWYxTU78QUx_bQXCBu5gd2D313gOW05NlVt7IMkbRNofpXlgppgWLUT1ewKUWCB7tmGw1P2RNRre8_BNfJ4zREJ5r8GHjFgkDG_1FRrnm9YKENpjf7-XcdypzFsZpn2xAkt26k-3suFmrZuZMyMA-jTAqBIdy6HKYTQfukjaaoaKdtE1r_IjJh95Osw_SeamUosKmRx18NlNre1eWUq7x9VwQGgY7D-meEf2uLBpOffkFqFKxYjeHsVGITxsCqpk3O6fahkKA=w1218-h913-no)

The Mk 3 in its original production was made in six versions over the period 1953/4 to c 1967/8. You will see that the pillars that take the cylinder head bolts are extended. This is the version to be attempted.

The Oliver engine(s) were hand made and produced at first by John (A) Oliver in a home based workshop later to be joined by his son John (S) who carried on the business until his (John S's) retirement. It is a testament to the quality and performance that they did so in this fashion for some forty plus years. More or less from the start their engines were aimed at the competitor and were firmly targeted to the tethered model car racing world. Many successes in this genre were logged up both here in the UK and on the continent. Eventually a cross over into aeromodelling was made and specifically with the developing sport of control line team racing in mind. Quick and repeating successes in this area lead on to it being the engine of choice for control line combat and it had to some extent similar standing in FAI free flight power for a while too. This success turned this well loved mark of engines into near (if not full in some eyes) legendary status even if the waiting list to own one was a long six to twelve months. The history of the Olivers, both father and son and their many engines are superbly documented in a book by John Goodall – now out of print I believe but well worth sourcing a copy if you have the interest.

(https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/Gvpzy74RK9DsonT5_2UiJ_HjmQZI5Ywk7goxEnOwcU8gTt9E31uONqTBXgh7WDR-xYFwBvoyJOUyDnfB2ry9UUE4w4CFhi_E3TcPE1F9ba895Gz5pXPxl1Oc6XE2oGbHAsxURCLxi9DN3FPzmR5heEvXGva4z8bV6m-s0WehE3jpSlsJd2ybOiK6wfh9WPeU3m3BZaeAc-BD9IDOlWUJR1JYB3_CDYtfsBdsYhNyzA5z0rM8HxJCg24fpoBIZhIpX2zMPMhvxsWOkXbESGqaBFhAG8ujkm2RJ-mP3Vn98PIBxS9aHe0zM1hPyrruYFC5Jlvgi8Eb93Ixs1GewjOtVxwLnqklnqz4qRfnGuovkkmRiV0GRzQWeT8p_PHykRLjUE1rAPXzBH6OI3FGRki2kTxUU2tpO23pDUoFZunVHqQRiaV5XgLXfkjC2MvWga131kyRzEC75MH8fmamAZJTSSwB56jiskIB9cENePBE595yMtVSNW8eHzGgUD2ztXK0UpyUU2lfcAI3JT3kHqLPoPo25JPZjKcBucASF2LpcVFBHRPEAKDNhbYOQLeW0mBgO6Ynz9L15KQnslZKP_lmyz79Dco6e-094-98XWp-YYi4sLmc2a6bQBpw9zrgJJgOFyqA03B1YoZbndKpA54tOqrirg=w1218-h913-no)

As a youngster an 'Olly Tiger' was talked about in such revered terms it was as if it were some kind of magic. I don't think that anyone I knew at that time had ever seen one - but we all knew about them from avid reading of the ‘Aeromodeller' and ‘Model Aircraft’ magazines. It would be years before I actually owned one – a Chinese made version however – and then got to use a real one (loaned by my good friend John L and the one in the first two images) in a VooDoo Team Racer.

What’s prompted this deviation from the Corliss? Well, I don't actually know. I've had a good break from machining on that but the thought of doing this engine – something that goes right back to making the ETA engines – just surfaced unexpectedly! I'm sure some will know how that happens!

A set of parts drawings have now been produced from this basic layout. (Some may note the glaring typo - Tigre instead of Tiger  :facepalm2:  Now duly corrected on the file  ::)

(https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-BAmu34uujePqDuf1wKKZzM1xLEWCOlj3tJ-K2BHQB6VDK9RoqRdQEy3BUwm5Hi8IYrNAIP98Zgu5rTzOgUjr5g43T3W9f9uS3dmgyCXvqzcnuRA-jgl8_zIdJpdEPG9_Bb7gptP28XuVVTAyAZuh2z_p9j4_HdK0Kkex-Nx6TL56VledjqHZFmPM5Hxe16o3oZHgY3ncWVuvGoE7HBl5hMmRGQcZj7mhkoJXmHj5cCsst8eto2G7sekTZvNoaNYtMzVk-rp-pJT_QZBOZtkJ_5iq7o4SQmlKN01m0Z26GgFHxJ0nWbUXPEKkOnwiPF5pHIJqIuMqVD7g6TX2gJ8eAA6eCAHQrtfBMp8hp0XSw6L6CfzdgU4sCUN1HjwR6Hxjzfw2Sw0Ssyi5UC15ST0Qbh1uCSPk7Yei3xXtEoPImDPZpGZf8SwB3PS-zO33hxItI1DuIhi51jZKTop5fA09sUzDLnh-_1hZ3Z8kOj3vWsaA_MpzMIDRRSmuvZh6MYvuqaDS1NVcZiuZMXa0zYYhr26ODADoh6RsqTJRovso2ael7mYqpxW3oLeyLjww1OXhHJUyu5b3E8MkAUQD3WsNzAhf2nS5NIeL3nbzyxDu_-wIva1nQaZNPraUFsxN4Y1DMnQHX_0D8Et7DnDOcEjiaT4Gw=w1218-h913-no)


Like the Eta's and Racers they are twin ball raced which calls for some accurate machining to get the races aligned. The material is the usual 6082 (HE30) which is nice to machine without picking up on the tool. The blocks weigh near 600gms each so as usual it will be interesting to see how much is left.

Though the building of the second batch of Eta’s and the Atomatics were covered on here in some detail, the recently built Hunters were not. There has been some request to do so from members on the control line forum I visit, some who have since joined here. It is much easier to post and add images on this forum hence the decision to ‘do it all again' here - those of you who have witnessed it before will, I hope, be tolerant of the repeated coverage of methods used

So, on that note I guess it's time to make a start. As always the cases are first - no case, no project – and, as said, they are not going to be as easy as past ones. I’d like to make a pair so will start with three cases in case of any hiccups. This is not being posted retrospectively but will be covered as it is being done so if things do go totally pear shaped there’ll probably not be a second attempt. That said, and bearing in mind another old phrase, ‘nothing ventured, nothing gained ' I guess it really is time to get to grips with making some swarf.

(https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/XCrTohHY7C4IFsHQwtR4HtjIr-t1wwqKQ5NFNw1vHMjX7CT7gkczZcQZHTyxYKfwtLUR9iz3lDW3Cr6SBFi3D3la2CI4e9Osc2tZktu03Bq0YjP5qBYxvEkfGXMfNB-D5prnAhj9sx01aU0a_DL6aI-eZw0ounnYY4cStiW5sLMU9eTq1d-LuCIXct4zYCx-xrOqZvo5yyqyBrBQKUQ0yXFr4Mu68-pkvVBL9APkQOSHZHDTtqy-O3PlxkIGnAIDc2Au-Dsu8B-Uw7NnvOQOWX_HOJ5XJjAtTbpZLtOrH0wJhUDcgSDiiQaer-RK43sjirguwD8qPFZhOSU69T31fvCUSthsG7Y-0DwAU3vj9HpJsE_64QgsvQJlPIF7nBHmv8kqvkhsQR01vG62fEXLsm_YP1EUvtN0oQ-VnheK3iOwnXM8XpaqeLf8ACmOuq11TEhLNAsTmpaDqobtC7FiUwl-YCO0I4X8XApS6_6UsxlGlvbFLG9_guA_fkK5zBIxRuBcBIY0lzgDu5d95MxxQLSTvibOJ0d0dDDd80wHKRRNiJojU60WF-ksiSAeMJGxhCQE_vqlVdIhldsP4VvGNuTXFp61KV60gFTyzDmUvEAcm3ir5-sKomnOTtymTBF9gbT4CAlHpUDW5Sdnnr-Dtyiqow=w1218-h913-no)


Well, that's enough for an intro - the 'decks have been cleared' - just need to fire the old mill up and bring those blocks square :)

Back later - Tug


Title: Re: The Oliver Tiger Mk III - a 5cc Version
Post by: b.lindsey on February 02, 2019, 11:11:49 PM
Nice project Ramon. I'll be along for the ride  :popcorn:

Bill
Title: Re: The Oliver Tiger Mk III - a 5cc Version
Post by: steamer on February 03, 2019, 12:13:38 AM
Watching along.... :popcorn:
Title: Re: The Oliver Tiger Mk III - a 5cc Version
Post by: 10KPete on February 03, 2019, 12:28:03 AM
I guess the big cats are a favorite for naming engines, and I suspect that  later mfgrs wanted to attract attention by having the name. I'm thinking of Thunder Tiger engines which were very big over here for a long time and, as far as I know, still are. I don't follow the aero engine stuff any more so I'm sure things have changed.

Count me along with the rest of the parade! 

 :ThumbsUp: :ThumbsUp:

 :popcorn: :popcorn: :popcorn:

Pete
Title: Re: The Oliver Tiger Mk III - a 5cc Version
Post by: bpudney on February 03, 2019, 04:00:08 AM
A wonderful choice Ramon!!  As a teenager in the 50s and 60s several of my clubmates had Olivers....sadly I could never afford one!  As a fan, I would have to say that Olivers really are full legends!!
Looking forward to this, will you be putting the drawings up here??
Happy New Year
cheers
Bill
Title: Re: The Oliver Tiger Mk III - a 5cc Version
Post by: Neil-Lickfold on February 03, 2019, 08:19:12 AM
I look forward to the updates as they happen.
Neil
Title: Re: The Oliver Tiger Mk III - a 5cc Version
Post by: Jo on February 03, 2019, 08:35:19 AM
 :thinking: That original crankcase looks die cast. It should be an interesting carving job

I guess the big cats are a favorite for naming engines, and I suspect that  later mfgrs wanted to attract attention by having the name.

Naming aeroplanes and aero-engines in the UK came from the Air Board Technical Department in 1918. Aeroplanes were named from the animal kingdom, while aero-engines were named independently by their makers. Even so a few British engine manufacturers had started naming their engines before the 1918 Air Ministry order: Rolls Royce for example had selected birds of prey, Cosmos engineering chose planets, ABC chose flying insects.

So it was only logical for the British model engine makers to follow full sized practise   ;)

Jo
Title: Re: The Oliver Tiger Mk III - a 5cc Version
Post by: Roger B on February 03, 2019, 08:40:32 AM
That crankcase looks to be a challenge  :)  :ThumbsUp:  :ThumbsUp: I will be following along  :wine1:

A work colleague of mine used spark erosion on his Anzani crankcase.
Title: Re: The Oliver Tiger Mk III - a 5cc Version
Post by: sco on February 03, 2019, 09:13:37 AM
Great project Ramon - will be following along closely!

Simon.
Title: Re: The Oliver Tiger Mk III - a 5cc Version
Post by: Neil-Lickfold on February 03, 2019, 09:55:44 AM
EDM is great if you have access to it, and the ability to make electrodes with the correct spark gap.
Title: Re: The Oliver Tiger Mk III - a 5cc Version
Post by: Allen Smithee on February 03, 2019, 11:19:13 AM
I used a pair of Copeman Ollie mk4s in CL combat in the early 70s - I managed to knock the whole cylinder assembly off one of them (his propnut hit squarely on the side of the fins and broke all four tiedown bolts out of the crankcase). I was a schoolkid and there was no way I could afford a replacement - these engines had been presents from doting grandparents. In desperation I sent the wreckage off to John with a highly optimistic note asking for a "repair" quote. A week later I received a brand new engine with a covering letter claiming he had found a defect in the crankcase casting and so was replacing it under the (long since expired) warranty. To this day I very much doubt any defect existed - it was John taking pity on a schoolkid. Of course a couple of years later along came richie wilkins and the shift to cheap glow motors and disposable airframes...

Anyway, in the late 80s I was flying RC and we got the craze for "funfighters" - 40" semiscale WW2 fighters for 0.19 engines and hand-launching, mostly from a range of kits by Cambria in south wales. Most people used the various .19-.25 glowmotors (HB/Veco, Enya, OS and later Irvine) and these models flew well but could be a bit iffy for solo hand-launching. I powered my Spit with a throttled Oliver Tiger Major - it was slightly lighter and more compact but mainly it turned a bigger prop (a 9-6 rather than an 8-6) which enabled it to climb away at 30degrees from even bad launches. It was a wonderful engine and it throttled better than most glows. Of course six months later we were putting HP40s in the funfighters, but that's another story.

Years later I bought an Irvine 20 diesel (which I still have) and this was very similar to the Ollie - easy to start, reliable and happy on big props. It was slightly more powerful (probably because it was Schneurle ported) and was also happy at higher revs. No one makes anything like this any more.

AS
Title: Re: The Oliver Tiger Mk III - a 5cc Version
Post by: Ramon on February 03, 2019, 10:57:18 PM
Hi Guys - thanks for taking the time to comment - hope this will live up to expectations.

No pics tonight but I have made a start and the cases are all down to block size and the first is on the lathe for boring.

Pete (10K) - Their first engine had no feline connection but was named 'Battleaxe' but then came the Jaguar, Tiger, Tiger Cub and Tiger Major. Of course there's 'Super Tigre' and as you say 'Thunder Tiger' but they are manufacturers names as opposed to specific engine names. Thunder Tiger did a fairly reasonable rendition of the OS Max 35S glow at much lower cost but too but it wasn't 'quite the same' as the original

Bill (BP) - nice to see you looking in :) Though the drawings are done (well nearly - realised there's no backplate today  ::)) they are as yet unproved and do not have limits and tolerances marked. I will update and amend as necessary as the job goes and will put them up once finished.

Jo, I think the originals were sand cast at first and then die cast in later versions. All the original engines copied so far had die cast cases. As Roger notes, the curves and transition lines on these are going to be the real challenge to replicate.

AS - You mention two engines I really would have liked to have owned - The Major and that Irvine 20 diesel (really wished I'd bought one of those at the time ::)) Saw John Oliver at Old Warden flying a vintage R/C model with a Major in. A Ben Buckle larger Junior 60 if I remember right - the throttling characteristics were exactly as you say. Myself and a friend approached JO and were given a leaflet but both of us were put off by the long lead time involved - regrettable mistake :(

Spark erosion? well I wish  ::) No this will be plain old 'dremelling', needle files and emery I'm afraid. Nice thought though.

Back soon with an update - Tug



Title: Re: The Oliver Tiger Mk III - a 5cc Version
Post by: Allen Smithee on February 04, 2019, 12:04:16 AM
Sadly the Tiger Major is long gone - I was made an unrefusable offer for it by an american collector I got chatting to after the 1995 F3D world champs in Muncie (Indiana). He offered me $3,000 for it sight-unseen because he said he'd always wanted one, and when I didn't immediately say yes he up'd it to $5,000 (I'd only hesitated for a few seconds because I didn't think I'd heard hiom correctly!). I gave him contact details and assumed I'd never hear from him, but he said he regularly travelled to the UK and sure enough two months later I got a phone call saying he'd be in london the next week. We met up, I showed him he engine and he gave me $5,000 in 100s and 50s - We went straight to the bank and paid it in (because I wouldn't know a dud dollar bill if it hit me in the face). The cash was accepted and that was that. Probably the only time lady luck has smiled on me rather than vomit in my soup...

The irvine was notable because it was my first ever genuine "started first flick" engine. I bought it new from the old Addlestone shop, and when I got it home I stuck it straight into the test stand. I opened the main needle the prescribed 1-1/4 turns, closed the throttle to just cracked and choked it to pull the fuel up. I gave it a gentle flick to see what the compression was like and it started, sitting there purring like a well-oiled sewing machine. It was always like that - it never took more than a couple of flicks to get it started. I haven't ever stripped it to see what the differences are between it and a standard Irvine 20 glow, but I suspect it would be relatively easy to make a copy using a glowmotor as a donor for the crankcase, silencer and carb body. The carb barrel has a smaller choke (as you'd expect) but all the remaining parts should be straightforward enough. Of course the original is ABC (which might be tricky to copy) but I suppose you could do it with a steel liner and cast iron or ringed aluminium piston. Anyway, if you want to borrow it to take dimensions etc just shout - Jo will always know where to find me.

AS
Title: Re: The Oliver Tiger Mk III - a 5cc Version
Post by: Tennessee Whiskey on February 05, 2019, 01:10:11 AM
Now if I was a drinker and a gambler 8) :lolb:, I’d bet a pint to a pence that when it’s running, old man Oliver would grin in approval. I’m going to love this one Tug

Cletus
Title: Re: The Oliver Tiger Mk III - a 5cc Version
Post by: Ramon on February 07, 2019, 10:31:21 PM
Thanks for looking in Whiskey  :ThumbsUp: and nice as the offer on the Irvine is AS I'll decline this one - I'm trying to reduce the list as it is :-\

Well, after one or two unexpected but pleasant domestic distractions in the last few days I've finally managed to get into the machining  ::)

The blocks were reduced to the basic dimensions plus .5mm on each face and the centres of the two bores centre drilled
(https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/T1Ula4D9LpwkjGwfq4o3IQJy-LYTcvHL_YzZatsMFSwCnRg-saRQkV_wO_KJz1ZR04Mr9iaqHAtsf0xm8HOnbBUhDSVLf3f5v2BSrq36fZ4y_HhEPT_7hBazop5xB6uC4jA-KjmXYVOEpQLSDUeVaq9up3c4rDm-eyHew1e6xvhTxgBv-x13sF7oJG4tOCFebuupw_ZrAWA6u5OG_Z1b2lCJ3SNxveSS0fAhuDzn1yJ9wvqLpUF93VPbu7JP_PcHQclP1WpFSDwn8QpysoIFDfaH8h0ISz3uX68-M1o7qQs4JSqTPALjjylsZC3QOIDiOYAIin3RE7WBzBGMb53tMmITBV-6x3BJVoBUSC2Zuk03jRgxs57XnkQmWXjSVskBBVL8G4ZgaYtmoz_RPy9jvO5Ql_WX_kp5uPt8_3AXCNrQODKmMzNt1D3E3A0ZWXufvFMilo_PpIPVU8qK3S-hwmdr9km1Y-zJaNBrlRNK__ZxWPy3jgDlkgqFJqmruTGrpimb16C-NPT897OqQE_dnCA_Z90TPBPcyeD_PrWhxsJZrQjwvPyNW0WT4lPidnYC3iSDOmTCGrwYz9Y4evuOFnrWr8KAPMF0PqGEzAcqD0e03T8c-D6Ofg5DXHd8hVVV3A23lnV_Qg4frjjnooeRVJlNvNrZmQRc=w1218-h913-no)

Before attacking the boring a plug gauge for the main bearing housing was turned along with a gauge for screw cutting the rear opening. The bearing plug gauge was made a careful .015mm down on size and the housing turned until that would just slide in. That gives a push fit for the bearing proper which will be tweaked if required on assembly for a good fit.
(https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/yEXUiZzYmYffuVkKRLWJ_ljU7nz8ShoN_mb0y80X7nVdoMKJWHAdyskVzX0Y2jIJV2FG9xT0495xxZQB1qLLNxyzHsAeY2qmOLVBNTQX3i7jilJUNcV_AlAlGuRSznozHMXePdYExCos3dz_ZC6PdJYyle2s8Tfemk_t22Yd4PDQVzhZfStHfuSBdMPRw-ZXjraZGgu5P-7tUvWqvnHeJJQmuSzOQO2QJeUxYyZ_aqX_j0VxlfpK45sFe3arFdDse87R0jvuKxNJyx2IZ9G4QGZzTAc1PWa3hGYX2DCTTQcjINyfKYDJkagafg5XmRUwRMJPSdTsxg5PkgFYtbm_2akpO7wIt7-PlVuAvJEpUm39JepFMIklGKsK69whjOVg8LRusoiP6P77s3de9pjcp40pE1cKupngnowJpAQgs5IY73bDHqeScLxLPLbZma8Gd15-RFjtXWS6qOeWy8HtgbwCYAvPhghwRHeAsIEYPvKF-jByfwViX5GbYVCjObYz_J3uGnPt-wl7fRDP1pPhEGE4vW99qKgSrQ4ePZqRJCsVyoh13Mz1HeAGIXIADwMbvOToQSO2qdz5m0SqzcaGLdwY5cOKseIjOAxezD-6GduNdvTfNjCefzCPaHo9I5TN_EqCEfm_3V1xI1bZTMNA-fLNX1tPCGVy=w1218-h913-no)

The blocks were set up to do the main bore first by the usual method of  using a 'wobble' bar. The paper under the block was there to enhance the grip.
(https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/XFOCVxj7x6oboKXfIQeYwyD1ZCdp0SZxucU47Aappreqo11mae7Nn1qB-CC5NiMGOuQYf-TMIHOE7z6YoEDX4KTkwxeyhciY241_3dfEzfdDgSqo0zglRNzVvm3X7dgcFk7TnB4A2dQXZPhb73tLQaFWto6PgfRDnWXjVAyxBbzaWl3ltaezcD1LHhP2j9LmsQRNdJkY4KENG7UIc4RgJpLvLFwqHBcTwwmcXMDEGwKjS5nDf00CbAHx0cN2fev93dIgzwo9-xUidoPyZXWLSM5MRLpRQbbdEfuhQF4tw-0zp_5Kqx3pTcaNgfJCqjetuUTDtPOtOXOQxwZudZAHboOlj4eqJt06-bkbtzbap4CkpP4VRO5aHiBeHkwmgubQ_9Q1-nveqpR6uGAy_Z2e-9L2_pJgfANopIP60cByCu3EMYGgTQnzlWlc4bYgPbQeuqgEiKjQUH0rHSXLz1DaAOdTt7xGTWshKPIpnBPrY-xE9lNvaED_6xSFQWyuR9TURrR7spdWPSev3bKJXossBXwyywDsf4lhwX7WWN6PqvvTd3gr4YAujzjxXGMK0CfB5YIrjs53N2DIe9IRfrKxIQijw13WZOcKQDE1fXkImfPth8kMrlkElMcQOlJxIiWE5MuE2p_4-bfOXY8GkRq9gAS8eGReOgSn=w1218-h913-no)

After drilling, boring and reaming for the crankshaft main diameter (12mm) the bearing housing was turned as described and tested with the gauge. I do not have really accurate measuring kit for this op - doing it this way gets as close as possible without ending up with a loose housing - final fit is down to the fitting itself
(https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/HvafS1jGz2sicE9bRxhkZ81w9PSCo682nd-sYO2jVLQ3JD-efekw9-Gfx-7JhdfCSWj4bPB1SM--sbbJsGabIPcTaqJ7aISNhKT2-M1QKZP9F-ZlQIPJllJWo1VUj0AmjkeBE_vEe2VG-edW2JElvixbTqhbljLslHfxawbTphQwW4ViyYAp-MQ6E9gieQgQQIysC0SjL-5SUA8fgus0Zr5cMg9O--CyKyQmrSYIu61Ap1lm5JyFeh3ZztUSKs_U0ahJD16JV2IWLmGINL70-cwhkN5trOqu8p6-6uxemV95nrk3w-7P7_nLkXLCXcsuZGg2bmoRuT6UmuDk_qf6FdIUFRB5FCTqbcbobR4W7JLLOBU37OR0CMfk0jGNsb73gs4zS_eAuSxt7kjH_veL-Hu97yLY9rhyuelRCqFnaxlauii82jUgHqvB_PBXQrHGj8LFckrsPWd9K4giyWj4jNJaHofa0K6EE7kec_AH-mRHMEIe15VViw2BYbzr_mq9Y-ZhF4Ehx0Bdhmbb3CWP11otVP07JlKVrMNfqheKPUlamptS73S28-r9YzvAvcdXZv0eIEnHeNVsUfU5cbmrm_3XAvPTaaRg-vvrqW4-CrsRdLgj2qHTZUVQHUG9av1vD4flclUykJn2_NQikjqxNCXlTGFz_PNV=w1218-h913-no)

Then the main bore was finished to size and screw cut for the back plate. This was done 'back to front' so that I could see when the tool reached the run out. (Tool is upside down)
(https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-hKXPq4092_HyAPfE5j50wRgjD07ujIMyC-9-D5-iUNDyy6r46iwryyrdfAY6bdrKr9xe2seTHFyEORxnmNkIOj3zl6CGcBaqEhrYehdaNP3E6jgBk4PYLUoQ-jKZy9eycMCx_rr_zwudB__TnU2GhdmxMwbDa5rU9zdJ6hbGs3xl2S5Rh-kx8Ma31N_WQVTH2Tctj8OR1r75Abv7-DwE0uvYQllLSzCcP8WmKPuPKTM_KN6L8wQkfRgZH1Y5Gbs1Rj_UdlQYdKlJxGpSBUXHvfuu70YT7lMT2J860l3fxXgJIOzOkIzGt7xFqZXR6kFNzwr9D369qTER48V8zYZkm4ot7ympHb7PijXcQ4N8vhYLCWzKjr8l4izNIZhPaRfUK-ilx2EqRepxGHggOL3wBK6c4Dg1gs_5e2ytj7n4OCoG4XwTyQVzzXjXmWs26iKzyUE9rYm3eo67pTWx44J-q7CK3tZSTsGfhjz20nN0cFAZgW6t3PmyGCpqeJQDqheclH0atBuHpqBQbI_0Us6h_mjcyg02dCu6DHwfk38NnwZ6MIE1w2vGsGuLPD5b2VBjyqWEhcCPxAyf6eb7TH8lXdmB86shwLkZ622KFYBFILnOO8rnb2PjegdV0NZIXThw4W1gwLxukgGMMk385aybXvJcQOQkbGL=w1218-h913-no)

With those ops out of the way the blocks were turned through 90 degrees and bored through for the cylinders.
(https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/uErbjKu_flt7TPqDkagakNMBKlMsl49XDE57LcJP443DqsQtsjB2JVl_5mjDu_Q9epAVn8mghDrmC9sVDWbOJbG7j1JfdSsDEPPQhw3iGEApgmQXeh1ozhWayBzUN8jwshj--t3eMDd6dpRbcorobhFXvp6g0ym5LeDVbI8N5SSLxoTP2Z7Eo307__D6IUD345JXxFvf_2A7_KRhkCM0x-uIPSb2GVklnaIiqOKIMYtzys5DOgYDb6eHBXHLR6LKdghlOR8jwj7YLlODMcp9px19SvTvSBTeiVEFqhI8_B-a6Jh7AmBzRB-VmudI6OgqC3r5AjvxOj0X3loRGCMihDDci2N96-Nr0QrWqBb7fuw3VIoOTyqRPj-kmv7SE7uscVNAdhl5d8XLh_GLip0HtE02iw6taJKrI6GhYYE-sBN7rDwH0dxF00YEehgPCutd5ln2ftVlqEycSYwD-54uzc_LC3STuW2XgCv_-pRtFOuCywgNZGcoDCkJ3TUPTZcfjOAWizGmqSXj7s1dTNtlSBosjUKeOfebLmevKg-DdEF1q89ombN1PZynQDYKOJ7VGy_pwmZxYxGILEKSU03gBMkbKRUJ5_hIv0cKBaDv7S05SUkAkkd-0KpWeMU-WhyvEVyCAsN-8zFJgZfkJFe0eZLIMcydFxhr=w1218-h913-no)

With the four cylinder bolt holes drilled and tapped that finished off the preliminary machining ready to start milling the outer profiles
(https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/Bo7bzKSbn9Npa1jikkczgRsKVz_jZN7JGWv7UpUmhBkF1GBLFDt1oQZCxKR171X8_Ms2yYmIbVynK9erabI59fJy8AC9BYrsHcQ1_lUuVvHZDScZVWW_XnfoYfGARe1qVyEPU4gAVgv1GPDi-HToKE7VWNyCVdMwGAvZe7JcvCsxUCFopBItJO0YJhGkbo24BGEDGQ6t9d_danxmYuynPEZIxF-cYUpH-aE_3VfEV-qxMsGWWI1mvsJGhamj_J7QiyT22odmn-w-3nPwD-30S1HLY4AyjredjUNOxpx24N4SKHSRK9XIVIljFsxZg0DB9p8k7PpSfJYTtA0S-h-c_KalbOfb5JleNAnq-kOWTafGSsMkPjmkXUD3fwuDeNIb6XTE4Jad0PvQ4S6q167NOTm0jy2LFvWPdQb7-7h9c7ZwxoJ27LlWjJSF5I-SggIpeM-BkCXXBQKtGIkPo8raOh1eKM0ZQ0h4vp5AydixEGl4My5Htip5igYOhcsaZxehu7QzFheSBYW3xwSvyaxpDSa2A4QO8XlJbcvckzKLVTjc5vFNCSJMsEYnuxUc33c9K9hG7JP1CSZNPPcRZblWcoyXODCU_iCRuvnwxJBfQ48_DnisjZUOTvA5rPJvQegBvTe_x4Ym8k3W5F7BrXX1WVv-EN2JzHOz=w1218-h913-no)

And this is where we are tonight after the first roughing ops on the front ends
(https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/EhIncOgnA8RyijgO2fxZr9A_byZt2Fcx5D7nFywSa4htYKz82L2k1DGbCbs2SGE0_AM6QWjuN9-gzEv29ZNhmsgQQAbTKN7-yg9pL2XoN8GCOdvLVzFcNMSQLXiGpoYp4PBSSmD5UFEWLHlHbCLzC5Jxhame1kTr_yvidDSs_Xs_jZLOZCZnPq6Koe-r7PTNeg6CaQEup2JI7VWkllVSvUe__IjIMwfqcZLS0tCSBQf6kp7OmGQ29gWQcqTWPth9F1A6NRDFpN4GsBTzhwdWL3bkkHg-spZeGELwrpRWq3MQPRd0ldH6VBVE5uB2q9bMmh7y3cjUBThHKzP1cEuCI5p7WxcagPgXarptWvAXAREAbjJ3XPG4j3fBxR8lq8XwAcfPVS2Q7mqPphelTG72ABtn-CklUFeh_7ZkQx10v-7nGn5Wdy7ZHR0dHiRUtHF86vrPfW8DVlDi9vLrZMiuLibZjwH1pifunCKQ0w9PxyjKmDdFa3PJR4KHVt0SLuzBEOAGYC6VZr26DvELCEdEEQIYet9kVW0ftLPciAf8wJrmTu-3tFjH5JR5T1xzSCgMIjwsgNY0rDCExOq2GhOu3kZpezaXw5UvJTCW5kuYToCvy33B9YeAYDio6SxzjnrNIPw0y-kZ8tFbgvJSk80xUaXmqjADohtk=w1218-h913-no)

Well that's a good start so far despite the interruptions. I'm hoping for another good day tomorrow.

That's it from the old shed tonight - hope that's of interest

Regards - Tug
Title: Re: The Oliver Tiger Mk III - a 5cc Version
Post by: steamer on February 07, 2019, 11:42:20 PM
Great start Tug!!

A proper bore gage is on the list of desirables...but they are pricey...granted.

Dave
Title: Re: The Oliver Tiger Mk III - a 5cc Version
Post by: b.lindsey on February 08, 2019, 12:38:51 AM
Looking good Tug. You might even end up with three engines if things continue to go well  :cartwheel:

Bilk
Title: Re: The Oliver Tiger Mk III - a 5cc Version
Post by: 10KPete on February 08, 2019, 12:51:03 AM
 :popcorn: :popcorn:

Pete
Title: Re: The Oliver Tiger Mk III - a 5cc Version
Post by: Neil-Lickfold on February 08, 2019, 05:10:51 AM
Great stuff to see. I like the centre and pin method for picking up holes as well. If it really needs to be right, I use blocks and indicate to zero that way. Another way is a pre bored hole made with a single point tool down a predrilled hole. Then use a finger DTI to find zero. What I like about the block method, is if I use the same blocks, can then check to see if anything has moved during any operation. You dont have to use gauge blocks, just something that is close enough and you record the numbers.  Great pics etc. Great work as well.

Neil
Title: Re: The Oliver Tiger Mk III - a 5cc Version
Post by: steamer on February 08, 2019, 12:00:20 PM
Great stuff to see. I like the centre and pin method for picking up holes as well. If it really needs to be right, I use blocks and indicate to zero that way. Another way is a pre bored hole made with a single point tool down a predrilled hole. Then use a finger DTI to find zero. What I like about the block method, is if I use the same blocks, can then check to see if anything has moved during any operation. You dont have to use gauge blocks, just something that is close enough and you record the numbers.  Great pics etc. Great work as well.

Neil

Dont forget the toolmakers button....
Title: Re: The Oliver Tiger Mk III - a 5cc Version
Post by: Ramon on February 08, 2019, 01:21:58 PM
Hi Guys,

Dave - I do have dial bore gauges but the housing was (usually is) too shallow to use them. What I'd really like is a set of three point mics to cover these diameters but what I wouldn't like is having to part with the cash to get them - for the use they'd get  ::) So far though this method has proved successful enough  :)

I have used 'blocks', both slips and made for the job on occasion Neil but as with the toolmakers buttons DRO has replaced the need for most part.

Been doing some more roughing this morning thinking that things might have to go on hold while waiting for the tap ordered for the venturi hole. Ordered a 9mm x 1mm yesterday morning from Tracy Tools, it arrived about an hour ago - that's service to be well recommended  :ThumbsUp:

Bill, so far all the 'extra' cases on previous engines have come out well enough to make an extra one. Not going to count chickens here but you might be right ;)

Thanks for looking in Pete, more pics later

Regards - Tug
Title: Re: The Oliver Tiger Mk III - a 5cc Version
Post by: Admiral_dk on February 08, 2019, 05:17:02 PM
I don't think it will be a surprise for you Ramon, but I'm already enjoying this project and hoping to start building my first CI engine in a not too distant future.

Best wishes

Per
Title: Re: The Oliver Tiger Mk III - a 5cc Version
Post by: Ramon on February 08, 2019, 06:48:24 PM
Hi Per - thought you would be here before too long  :) Good to hear you are intending to tackle an engine - do you have anything specific in mind?

Bit more roughing today - just a couple of pics to add. Doesn't seem much for what seemed like quite a bit of concentration but it would be all too easy to put a foot wrong at this stage.

Still using the faceplate, faced off the backs to finished dimension and roughed to OD and ID of the front housing to plus 1mm. This area will be finished on an expanding mandrel for accuracy.
(https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/H6GFbZ5iihjvg4AEC2HYEGdTsrKi_KIoRTub84CXY686MShQUuKMqaJ96D-8L7qSlKbQ8BqbivUhwWPWXTyEwTR0s6C59Tj2ZlIIuxG5UfK5SJ8NlreUivCJEh_WkHNvKyJ_K95Hfeqi5CsFdwtVOvSbLtvt5l6v-LSJNqDTDGG565qG3hSg6eQ305-7dQMu6aBZFuK09_1eVyT5dOjVx11HlcBk_2TnUIxxf5PsNqydWOzHdvs8TPXV1w5WfclLBA3q7hfq1gNnUfVzq2YxI7mVD8rro4gwST95eDkIpMCtXQOpTwL5i0iJx_vOYu12J8eN4NBsLgXcN8_xm3oV4XH8caX4b6ADOhio3G7t7g0RC8C_HfUw5l_bo-6antFYnnkOGG0jivUdXfauL-TVRi9DgODjwn_13hEtb4mBkSiwAr8QH5meYVUjeXoiUHBBAC_gTfywOuco9Y3cqybJ-REBxWXoGx6KcRdCcwCdXJ9TQG7evw2sb5emJZ1Ixa8RCExNF8LOCMJ9AhaGAnx9N5WsK2yFTzp5R7g99b2sRybDVXpeFl8riwyPmi1cQ96kd6bBOwS3JfsY6CxPmReSdRNFafsphslEQfMpfY4oRqDkWudyV8nfp-PsX02N3QqFQw7LPMeDxRGdiX15-NWStF-hEAKoGnId=w1218-h913-no)

Then removed some of the side waste leaving .5mm to finish. Also set up and used those new taps to do the venturi holes. The scribed ring is to give an idea where the outer diameter will be.
(https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/BzIql53Iw9fxVmdPCCu8OGz6Nxg-ScjAZ6xOSlZYbyqDdU9gz5uhaveSjVQskpOKnrr4gr93eVOoTVMK0Xch3HJLjA7IGGppXmDHP9riWy9Q5eGyzGm4WESe28XCLkNzRST-6Rnhkrla4LjksDS7ofWeN6kCequh7OZQaQQD95iCY7msNUnNsIL1y3kfD1ebJE3doObcVFV9P4JAn82zecDbBOMp5g1_DcNEFTtFnlHLmTZBt9qQMiiKlhhXNZ9T4IcV9_PQWP20KgUnwnA43aFtV8wFOpWaTHsg03Wzlkq7pn9rejNSgZ0Rt4eP36PNnMCAqnPrvYicaMF7dnlse_GpitlTnIFd-L5v1O7Jm77ylCRVkxl0zJwruPbcK5TsTbILoCxmDi7SkWLTHrdWq5J4MNuRtcRkevCMpDx2nx8zx7-BDZ_TYjWJPKxxwybU8KMsTE5f7UwBBKv0VWcsxRA8iqmDYlNw0stUlbgqVnR60lLnlBiiJlWkaUAX24nHmPsC_Uvfae2NsN2Re9iwaXJ0Zo2IgAPpCNffToZDD7rjwJ6SsABCUNBBlGheUmDEsHgsCpn0oqCElpqiZCsYOu0OC84F8Uv7C1fsdC5kaeicXW4k6UmYkwUgbyXm164DWwIH-WqcstOb4TKCdjxG7KtdlD2w-Zw9=w1218-h913-no)

Just a bit more waste removal tomorrow then things will slow down a bit as the finishing cuts start.

That's it for tonight - Tug
Title: Re: The Oliver Tiger Mk III - a 5cc Version
Post by: Neil-Lickfold on February 08, 2019, 07:33:20 PM
Fantastic work there Ramon.
There is just so many approaches to the same job it is not funny.
Thanks for the updates and great photo's.
Neil
Title: Re: The Oliver Tiger Mk III - a 5cc Version
Post by: scc on February 08, 2019, 08:13:51 PM
I'm certainly on board for this one :popcorn: :popcorn: I do enjoy watching things carved from solid.
Thank you for the detailing Ramon :ThumbsUp:         

Regards         Terry
Title: Re: The Oliver Tiger Mk III - a 5cc Version
Post by: Admiral_dk on February 08, 2019, 08:42:18 PM
Quote
Hi Per - thought you would be here before too long  :) Good to hear you are intending to tackle an engine - do you have anything specific in mind?

I plan on doing a few versions of the old Danish Viking 2.5 followed by the extremely rare Viking 3.2 (a bored 2.5) and almost doing one of your specials, a Viking 5.0 - with the exception being I'm only increasing the bore, since the original is extremely long stroke = tall. This way I can use the same stock for all the versions. I got almost all the materials now, but still have to get more tools.
Title: Re: The Oliver Tiger Mk III - a 5cc Version
Post by: Tennessee Whiskey on February 08, 2019, 11:52:41 PM
Hmmm, more swarfless machining; you must be working with Dave Otto  :lolb:  Looks great old boy. I’ve got three modes of modern technology helping me watch this one  8)

Whiskey
Title: Re: The Oliver Tiger Mk III - a 5cc Version
Post by: Allen Smithee on February 09, 2019, 08:50:33 PM
My ollies had offset-bored front journals (a trick I copied for other engines that was worth 300-500 rpm). I don't know if it was an original feature or one of the mods Copeman did. essentially all but the last 50 thou or so behind the front bearing was bored again, but about 5 thou eccentric (in the direction away from the shaft port) so that there was a close fit around the shaft port and a minimal pressure seal at the front. I copied the trick for Sport 40 race engines, and on several cheap engines that suffered pick-up (galling) in that journal.

AS
Title: Re: The Oliver Tiger Mk III - a 5cc Version
Post by: Art K on February 09, 2019, 10:34:56 PM
Tug,
I must admit to knowing almost nothing about 2 stroke diesel's, especially the flying sort. I had a control line P51 with a Cox .049 when I was a kid, never got it running more than a couple circles. This sounds like an interesting build and will be following along even if I don't say much.
Art
Title: Re: The Oliver Tiger Mk III - a 5cc Version
Post by: Ramon on February 09, 2019, 11:27:41 PM
I’ve got three modes of modern technology helping me watch this one  8)

You mean yer keepin tabs on me ?  :ROFL:

That's an interesting bit of information AS - I haven't heard anything to that nature before though I can see the possible logic behind it.

John Alcock, on the Barton forum, (whose knowledge in such matters I have a great deal respect for) is of the opinion that the Copeman tuned engines were not enhanced by further machining but 'improved' by hand methods - not always to a great advantage either apparently  :o

I've only had one engine pick up and gall - that was one of the first Racers - going well then just slowed rapidly and stopped dead, the shaft seemingly locked solid. It knocked out easily enough and the merest interference had caused it - easily seen by a dark ring in the bore about a millimetre wide. A polish of the shaft and a tweak with wet and dry eliminated the problem. I've usually made the shafts in the case running area about 0.01 down on diameter since then but of course all previous engines have been rear induction - we'll have to see how this goes. I don't think at this stage I'll try what you are describing though.

I'm not out for making these as 'outright' performers but the usual ME project that hopefully will run and run well - that said I do hope these do live up to the originals.

Art - I think those Cox powered planes must have put more off than they did encourage - bit like the KK Champ over here. Too small really to get the feeling of control line flying - I remember helping my neighbours boy and his friend fly one down in his garden. Terylene 'String' lines that gave no feeling that anything was on the end ::) but we had some fun with it as I recall.

Had to take a step back today to move one forward due to brain fade  :facepalm: - more on that tomorrow with a few more pics

Regards for now - Tug
Title: Re: The Oliver Tiger Mk III - a 5cc Version
Post by: Tennessee Whiskey on February 10, 2019, 12:37:53 AM
You ain’t just a tooting, got both eyes on ya. As a matter of fact; couple of those holes look a bit large to me  ;) 8).  Just saying  :lolb: 

Whiskey
Title: Re: The Oliver Tiger Mk III - a 5cc Version
Post by: b.lindsey on February 10, 2019, 12:42:34 AM
Those crankcases are looking terrific Tug. Pay no attention to that good old boy behind the curtain  :lolb:

Bill
Title: Re: The Oliver Tiger Mk III - a 5cc Version
Post by: Neil-Lickfold on February 10, 2019, 05:10:44 AM
In the case, having the case to shaft with a clearance of Ø0.03mm to Ø0.05mm on diameter is just fine. More than Ø0.05mm on diameter and the front bearing will get more lube. Less than Ø0.03mm on diameter and the front bearing will run in a more dry state. At Ø0.02mm in diameter, it will run the risk of picking up in the housing. The pick up occurs because of the flexing of the crankshaft between the bearings when it fires. This is why there are sometimes radial score marks seen on the crankshaft of some engines. The higher the RPM and load, the more the crank can bend. On some engines, they have Ø0.07mm of clearance between the crank and the housing. It is common to have the housing a nominal to +Ø0.01mm on diameter housing, and then relieving the crankshaft between the rear bearing and the front of the shaft by Ø0.04 mm or so on diameter. It also makes fitting the rear bearing a lot easier as well, and also means that only a short distance for the rear bearing fit is required.
Neil
Title: Re: The Oliver Tiger Mk III - a 5cc Version
Post by: Ramon on February 10, 2019, 09:41:38 PM
Hello Guys, thanks for looking in.

Now you didn't say Whiskey but which two holes are they :Lol: Never fear Bill I know just what the old boy is up to ;)

The info on clearance is interesting Neil. I usually reduce the shaft in front of the bearing but not as much as you are suggesting going for more of a seal than allowing too much leakage. All made so far of course (save that Racer previously mentioned) have run without issues and though running fast at times are not running at anywhere near peak RPM's which would probably make a big difference. Given what you are saying and AS's comment on the bore being opened offset I think I will increase the annular gap slightly more than before on these, maybe one more so than the other for comparison.

All assuming of course that we end up with decent cases  ::)

As said yesterday it was a case of the old two step shuffle - one forward one back. I had set up on the face plate to rough turn the front bearing housing OD. Removing it I realised I could have roughed the ID to to ease the final operation at a later date. Set up the second one and bored it for the 8mm depth required, did the other then set the first up to do the same. Noticed on the drawing I had dimensioned this depth as 6mm so pencilled in the 8mm. It would be later in the evening dozing in front of the box and musing on the day that it hit me - the bearings were 8mm ID not 8mm thick. Not only had I not read my own drawings I'd operated on brain fade and amended the drawings to suit - Well bless my ****ing soul I thought - actually words far far worse :facepalm: :facepalm:

So, after turning some close fitting ring inserts back up goes the face plate, and the rings Loctited (638) in.
(https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/QCqoI8kzirZtswrhJoazAU_MzRjl_7h04qLtwbn66K4J975UywbwV4AAvH_j9qsJea7hN-XZFHStbHqqmGowToAXx6nkpr0VY5hCfiejcxuQplREjarZuK_ZSviVxCLD7VUB25i2p7aW8ldxWYl27l-IxkInyzCgFsk0KuDFurEyvfsaDaX9USqi7IVnPwiSIrThgLBuaGNFn_gBNDeoilzyziC9qVU1W5VzzdTQMiylPQvtraDU86AyhYIY6vcBHiZXr-8c0hE76Ey9ncoNaJ--X2w4Y7BLdp4o_bkMgdaveTFK_Eama--ei6k9Bu6RYoMboe38ooBmVMfifwqMZLi6kEM_XjHyLsby5m8hZyxQUKp0BAw1rC_qJbS-5hBRwN1vDKIqcgfD7EuHZXnG6FKSVJuUbJ8MiKAWKg9qs76lwej91xAQzYbOduy7KSYGC_kT0K3BW4GrMEXrgLu7G5gjuw8PD16VBnJIpxpDS6cZ85ONI_Tw7ZKlinVHmf0wPtt-BEQsbbfxU4CvdNqB0PcIyZdTCCzYOQc_1iENnI4Bag8IqnvkPGl5aJtkhmWPsZKeJ0uBm9sIAcgyFDZTkpNeWdb3O44BfOo4fJB29Ejz4uB6EYrsPcO-pPYJIV2cKqP6VNz2z5wcKnyl_o-1AYCbT-85SsHH=w1218-h913-no)

A quick mandrel was turned from a bit of scrap and held in the drill chuck to hold and keep the rings from twisting and the ring pressed home tight.
(https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/OKffOjnAsHCS76EH6rY_DZhxigo6L0eeeM4pTXJFqAy531iJk562GfLxK0K7CIpgOAE5JDsG-SLwySXvEKu5Bim948Vmyu0L2WxjGn3wZDs_FyWEAq6JUJKzCgzBajZEGvauNZymuXNkJ9xMczpwNfLXxQJ6T4TF4yyG849DsOzAEp7H4H-VCgXrULbAK5VbbJW6F9GX4qZo8XqIT2uF3Nz12WSZXEHX_8E9yGTegaYpxx5kyN6JttWrbV0EmA1rC1_hEMwLJE1pW5e002Ebp9mO7i_Q3xvGdYKwxNFRbXD4jzGkQJ4Uki0WS86zVQHddsBazRlbO0U9ay_eDXoOH47POTFqSAXKZU8btLJfGstSJkUhSWqM8_VTm7oHm4VN7UGoZEbZWqerZaOnJByakHsRqtzpBdXSK5FQGMn1_YEWAoLw72EwufDg0mcMPKZ10kEoNGI8cvMyDDuik0un5I0S1bdKE8dWGKfwHn2UXWGn1hTYgMNYZpr7PofQSVVL7e1YIM_KHrGZBkGxJi_TLURKxWLlupSiv2vJMfk0hpeM6o92Ns_CITVNUf-zl1Fo8kU5z-0Usp4UKXJ3szbNg2NHiNhFVM_uSGeX1R78iQdzcnOn4u0I-x5c9EUMzhhRxQXXf9YqOMVsgL4Q1vltLBz-6h1MS2X3=w1218-h913-no)

Gutted, and so sodding cross that such a mistake could be made on not one but all three cases never the less the reclaim has worked well and should have no detrimental effect on the finished case. I'll put it down to an age thing - I'm certainly feeling it these days.

Back on stream the top was brought to finish on outer dimensions and the lower side waste roughed away leaving .5mm to finish. The case was then set up on a close fitting mandrel to bring the width to size and finish the lower face of the bearers true and parallel to the bore centre line.
(https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/3VopXbgoJYx3vGi1t24v1LEzqKmzVD2Me1e-kSeNYCcu8kW7clwW-vl8TvHC5kH1xVjQ-sUYsov3hnd4_KtGI-rjEIrLZznEY1EgT-zZdUvNqZJmnnjQ3bJnFizZtMNM--R3IBuj6KAr1n7h_hPpX4YySB-lD2IaZovaQxEBQN6YzWP1foLVnNJIp7bvFAiMje3V5WKJ5o1kGmKYqH7pb-b5A0r7xub7H9l34BTodFFKXuheeT0XzMIeFmrxmx9KoEtVW8aYxpKnF1cfAEhzsPYYS5Q_G9joYbluitSmdnJ-wDWHd3DVREz9LupnIytDyzUvY1FMRpUqHRESfg6wFUChoaCeyLXeOqORzfR_Qbdk95QOg0uHca0J7Ey0-Ss_11qi2pOwq_kBggDjVv6hqtYioDDqOuu_0uEiZwou4UolzysI0aWMMPF4LZHUVmvDHRiFE2LuZyf4R0eSjX1bOJjWSA6nHQNna2wRYEDYaJArO8OpnVW-SyKQBZkuDOqkvSQJHZX2TCQfPDt4yi_dL2SJvcNQt_HPWEhnWwztdUfojv3SYyofqaIYZBhpW_sSdbPkmpyqJVvytKr_NBNp6y61opB1vOrj0mk0GK0C1RInCo1j74i3trkAtLLyeUJCeAZQnMLYSI-XW7GIBGvoNNFO93caz8Zm=w1218-h913-no)

And slowly, they are beginning to lose more weight
(https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/y7HJY95qloOHRWZy0Toa4NAO6M3k-K9zmp4aFguDJpLOGQPmq3Xl_kK3_peIEmsVBrQl2QF4PEkWnflc0EkJfIE-Ro7_AxND8Dwg0XvJuV1pCigsT9HkDlQJIAjWQi5A5lY_L2Szi2frN0Tzk5oI4bPKJ_gaHPoLaMNRo6Z_Zm7I0TA5UrscAl-y8z39m_m5g03jIoAPm6xPTk6vep9XALRbJJ2oJvjs_ut4YZJRk0xWUVhU09de0Nnp_RHLew6RLOJzG2aV7uqyfNgCDwjg2u8vyaKkOUphHnrgDFzEnYMAlRW9WNAkJDSL6Cn7ib7uBsIcao8YH6d8cuP-p1KqRwhsBskIG0--0a5NA-VMcvMe6rjNjMrDjVDLpK6Sgtbnx1YsZoaLgqUuMO4iL-trabaeDdwbu4myxd9uUkkEWl4T0BT5z9BVibg7ptXsqU7YIFPGfMB_UlNml6pEhe5YgaAtMg2REi4_Vhf3kFMG6KyuBjpzzss2Un5QGfVsG5rEzEzxSwXxXVDMocykzhHWrUiyfOlsZxUXVUgmHcJi92Gel_wsKwpEtWvKv65dTXNSDcx_SrTjsofteY0Bbz3avrsKhTuYW3RWxMjYTwqEqeB4mX-ca-OBIU7-P8QvCr1d8iM-nOhTeGWQz-6M89ewAMjsB4xFc9bu=w1218-h913-no)

Final roughing op was to reduce the lower case ready for profiling
(https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/ZvzZKolV14sNf4EPrlg-mYEIbxKKHWM-BKAHvgKD3fIUj6O87EgAmRDs1vzI3W8xeiPxPFAZuT-DIOF97yRHmtTt5dZBczvtIzSH6XNOz4v81KSpwwYkpuoVhmMvoz5wDcAceu9fOzkh4OlXo-aY1cKuDttBoagNQd-_Mtubu7A9v8fXd0tSe_jGaB1kXXlSuPT0F14JNd0d232uNz4Q4h12RzzstmrSzWDrc_HbbDN4kIfjSrQY8EpIEIyAOW5UgaTQSkiO79MCfTNn8UkG-3NrHvRpcQgUX4zlHr-ROwE5Pgi7-eEXAHpLBPpXV0DqKqarX27QfzFbJfLcEcH1S6APiCQ51T42at_Dc39Dg9NBTA1s7vFFJjOJd63cSI4UbWSKARAlNF2Mh14G6ErIcK69m9Cf9Q7ISpvcHDc3z81sRFiCo_kXu0Tfp7vudsz-8soMD1Wn9huMaO-TQC_PZRG0i_1SdbwYYdsrGRIbaDXD5lrUxw1iGfU4aap6sxUTEvn0S_6331B6o6m2qudBMWEqVf1FibmbgAqP7MAW0SARvdeUGBgx5UMUZ37S8u3rRnyGRfFb8bVod72MLxqrqcxQ5furpUfEyO1_WQmL4rUE-ALZ_QHjzj1g_4jEdNMb5Yu7BzalepkLn1N9a6uZ06oM_8Bl5Xtl=w1218-h913-no)

And this is current state of play with all of the major roughing completed
(https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/bNRHdfZWBIpeVx-6XoGoJyxPj1u8dx6PbwCqi9opBMIHqslvrm_aTYeqQ8b_Q93lNYZT7dK3tGsxT5W3A7pHjVUudYl9sjn-pUtRkd729HhXWNvS7elioDDXdzsjQvHQaMQppqm6Wo94ekPBNVOO25UM5FMclh6Gm7az85qG1A9tRss7rlHZZk62sZR22kvx22bVwYMnx0_tFPs92IIbNpI-iVC6z4v4hQghFJm67ptQXU4W-wrOIAoDFZ447hrPEKB3ipci1BiFSGEsbTCwumhiEJMMbEAvNBo5Kjy2-UAGcTSH-haYywjCwHiIV9aT58OTWfQt33Ud3VR2MMRm1gBTwLP1emfnAR1SLILbi8N5BcAJB6RuYIElyN170OrsS2ZbQNtl5Ar-bKngO70fiCBmaGyq7Mg4f_V6GaTSqIqn1_iZnfAdjzF8iFxDwk0XBFKOTwubdgS0SVfUnieYfOJvz42_UnHKqF0iOBDxX-f61Jyf2Qec-U1we9J1NIqR4u2LgbLESJZr6v0cjd9kTweHua4-pvjBQCdIlb8u0dejOW4G1KX0KK172XCVNBcmd7cnZYNqEIEqssBQCssw_fWBAVnE210nOZfUbswSle7FXo1sqLCCIGiUk3nMb9g6zambPwn6ouWOfsBYmq4OC_7zIjIRHQLk=w1218-h913-no)

Next up is to make a couple of fixtures for holding on further ops - everything will slow right down now as it will be all too easy to remove areas that don't need to be but now the fun bit begins :)

Weather's looking good for next week so the garden may have some influence on shed time

That's it for now - Tug
Title: Re: The Oliver Tiger Mk III - a 5cc Version
Post by: Tennessee Whiskey on February 10, 2019, 10:02:19 PM
Heh heh heh, the proof of a proper machinist is one that successfully rectifies his error without scrapping the part. Nice save Tug. Let Sue dabble in the garden and you won’t have to leave us in suspense, just saying  :stickpoke:

Whiskey
Title: Re: The Oliver Tiger Mk III - a 5cc Version
Post by: Ramon on February 11, 2019, 08:14:25 AM
Ha, Whiskey, now I'd say the proof of a proper machinist is one that doesn't make that sort of mistake in the first place  ;D That said of course I've long followed the principle "those who have never made a mistake haven't made anything"  ;)

There' more than a bit of dabbling - I don't think she'll be too keen to dig and prep my dahlia patch :ROFL: Nice thought though - I'll give it a try  :)

Never fear, I don't intend to take too much time away from these

Tug
Title: Re: The Oliver Tiger Mk III - a 5cc Version
Post by: Neil-Lickfold on February 11, 2019, 10:11:35 AM
It is nice to see that someone else also uses printer paper to hold parts better in the vice, as well as the added benefit of no marks on the work piece faces.
Neil
Title: Re: The Oliver Tiger Mk III - a 5cc Version
Post by: steamer on February 11, 2019, 11:11:10 AM
"......"those who have never made a mistake haven't made anything"


Beat me to it Tug!   Glad it's sorted and you're back on track.

Dave
Title: Re: The Oliver Tiger Mk III - a 5cc Version
Post by: Roger B on February 11, 2019, 11:46:09 AM
Nice save  :ThumbsUp: and good progress on the build  :praise2:
Title: Re: The Oliver Tiger Mk III - a 5cc Version
Post by: Allen Smithee on February 11, 2019, 01:18:03 PM
"those who have never made a mistake haven't made anything"

In which case I wish to claim to have been the most productive human ever to walk the face of the planet...

 :-[ :-[ :-[

AS
Title: Re: The Oliver Tiger Mk III - a 5cc Version
Post by: Ramon on February 13, 2019, 09:38:17 AM
I plan on doing a few versions of the old Danish Viking 2.5 followed by the extremely rare Viking 3.2 (a bored 2.5) and almost doing one of your specials, a Viking 5.0 - with the exception being I'm only increasing the bore, since the original is extremely long stroke = tall. This way I can use the same stock for all the versions. I got almost all the materials now, but still have to get more tools.

Hi Per - sounds good to me  :ThumbsUp: I'm not familiar with the Viking - do you have an image of one?

Neil as I'm sure you know its a very old trick but one not to be dismissed, that simple bit of paper makes a huge difference to gripping power - of vise or clamping  :agree:

Made a start on the fixtures yesterday - should be finished today and the shaping can get going

Back soon - Tug

PS - AS, how can you possibly claim to be the most productive human ever to walk the planet when you tell us clearly that you come from middle earth  :headscratch:
Title: Re: The Oliver Tiger Mk III - a 5cc Version
Post by: Allen Smithee on February 13, 2019, 01:36:39 PM
Because I am clearly not there now - one does not simply walk into Mordor...

AS

(Winter is coming!)
Title: Re: The Oliver Tiger Mk III - a 5cc Version
Post by: Jo on February 13, 2019, 04:32:11 PM
(Winter is coming!)

I would be more worried about the horizontal freezing rain driving across the runway ::) Enjoy watching Netflix

Spring is here down south   :cartwheel:

Jo
Title: Re: The Oliver Tiger Mk III - a 5cc Version
Post by: Ramon on February 14, 2019, 10:39:27 PM
Hi guys

Just to let you know that despite two very nice distracted days in the garden (had a really great start of the season bonfire :) ) some time to make a start on the initial shaping has also been found  ;)

As said  a couple of fixtures were required to be made and first off was to profile the lower part of the case. One of the fixtures was for this small 4" diameter tilting rotary table on which to mount each case.

(https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/bqlZkVLw_C9MiDIXYNz_dt_3kdUWQqOMwzQlRYqdEu2JAMevMZE9g1SCxfaHKB-GEfMb8iUcGaXstiATAJw8DPayPSESRxoshZFIL-aFabDeoj1CzW3pWoOQ7d8FdUcqmQBLMA-lzGKatNQn0Oq5QEgQNXbfV5nCM_1C0MK3s1JSnCUTn4eDjLDl1Vn5L1prY4BPd8CvtKzg7JPAAuPefBiybKLMrI3l2Ss_tSUYqwxSSlmkPdP2whL92JIii78yCm94B3ab3Yt7oP9nox0eHfpbMpWkdRUa9ueTWLEGtRbtQ4QyUFgW5OVFM58nLfuk_v80RbWB6NUtrTikBVMcNIjBkg6Ywrh16OtTeEJvdzLeEkJ62YZxyGEBKE2AEfAwjycMtcK1D_Oodro4eLluIvu7_clWMWrEdXqR6KrVGOpvD7aAuYmknD7wYvHbF2cXH5omV4oOpmH9cNlQ9SjG178k_8KZoPq4PIBt42l0EdfNb_ygSICsU2OItpmkQDobfj9iGeCzeSrJDRxzRHJk450mulEqoNx-y9LZbCNZxCNO88u7AvZJ_MUNo6IYXAM-019Alcp5QXbtDCwKyjt02r1i19eeOQyjHNaQAxR07tRx0TykIEy_Z7GNe5NGq_1cI6clpnXmI5Q8qFVfVx_UPjFj6t27fz2i=w1218-h913-no)

(https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/BwfWk6FQl53mjA56ewYYqkMQOm40mN-6tW6IpI1bgu6IDbnvVWm5xCirII5DR5fFXPEbIDuC1Tr6mZ-mnyY8XV1IJPbozDXvDlNeBuieBp8q_ZMjyrlYB4IFT96Kft8-HprqZS-75xr643CDaY10ltQI6helO1md6X08S0wav3WTHFDJ8iRaBl7fjO7UCehpyte3QIVqkMC4JbCadlbNTFym1lFj4xkewaCr45ExC7XO8ymgh9BMlu94Yhipmz5loXK3auBCjqDEstAZ9lsy5khUnkNs3dCtg0qd4zxfXkznA7RGIbOUbPR8xlH1D71nXQFfhACpHr0ZZ0mefQ16pYyeneijB3uswEh7vIIl7RvBBp_KoTDVDFnhU_RIgvjb-PKBPXf5964FSsEYuE4HIlBgAdLjB54rlkBux0RYDk6YWl0bgolgMfswSgcgltN6aw4Bs3gIe2x9VIhPo7f_xJIPu97Ih8NKU8yabMLMPZFrpwUR6uMAoFQFb9XALmLxC0ZLCzYYV-nTKQVFkW-PKQr-2Am4Rl-B2jGtQwxgG9RsgCGCcpkaFicMyRwmvv5izNCOnpO3or5XIBFGbfm--2wwxHYuuAVJEI319nFxyx8wOedcbbUl88CwAtUXUpo1LJm-VDdOT0hUuwMfvMeWo_C4MzxDgHpV=w1218-h913-no)

A first cut was made leaving about .25 mm to clean up
(https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/43EZfYm0QFvjyH6_81wo4lhswedrh8WnJI7hcajhvLjY53pkqcNW_ZipsZZK-D6kKTWSRwqvJHIvJj46_3TqvBUibf5nvLkktD8SFUXiJuAeU054TjVrLV2HeBEYXrvp991qzZROTE7kya0Fhfxy7ypSiG325F2b6hQKwWIxsiG79v4T4zoicI9LZCuW0SBSi3XVW7GKpUzaRorAWwSDKUNfk1yQgcasKVnz1kGdV2iFcW5tTUgT9F5jLVA8tmtECFVphrxVALJR1yNz7XqByPbsrIMrmka8WqYTTEsQwTOj9CtS8UqZgppYT4GRPXIfRyeSd-dFeUIeOBvUz2p0xCZEJmVHE95eiijIrHNL9Nc98Mlz621tOHGFoqYa5QYErwsqON-LoS-hz1hWiBAKEWNwDHfIzLDthjtqP__b0n2ozqcqc5494oeldkMO-zB2URxX8tJluN_q9uUUIsjVcfNG0RO2JJVr_ViOWqvw7TjgGDzlroWijFWc_cH3pP9m8wcUuMn9x5mw4yPXpBMFaMiRkXIfOAldcE5kmW8KWLBy3vyM8hTPUpSMhbHr_cFakF0_bZJ44hajrwIVeqRGqWE7NeE4foLYuKqrqCXoxzCbVnvThgGZN_ojifqo69kq7pKLCBbGU8rFoWN1inMepFqlyJ3WWkqJ=w1218-h913-no)

(https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/GAen2NXJLwUsVaYNzJhlz34DTHhjtVJ11f1ANPUR_UObf6Z5rbtF6rwPyJBTI59QFu4eTm-v93A6_Xd9hlduKLML8O_IOl4RzXAXQ5CsHfrXsN3wNr61P_wertkZmOFJHKTEzpLkXGbSEX9IQr10ZI9B1-5BqkZ1HrODyvB09GEhYI9sPm5nxspI8hif05DPx8wE2p74o7MRrSkKdG1GFxk8zXiEWSqccwE-p4uvm_D9K0aR0qGjTKEGUk_mgV4D4tGs0GlJOgXeLAXmVpnwihOBnblVJWdjST3uUMArtgeSRcLCn37g0s1gqvxSTK5rabcML6v4h5VdMkF2ANXqJnVSU7aAo-tJLAeQAux4KbnRfXM2qRR9hd2LBQ65NnhKOL9Ntk2KHYmZ97J6_Il2IAZB0O11sGlsN_Yhe2tDkWCjQqlxIVD_gJ_05Qo_KmlulQYK-wg4UZJYAirnhPTZtM9dOqcwEQNNniz291Nwv1mgKI89fDS4v5FfeFGoaAEmBXp4o2iSIWKVq-MqAwmdPwCGRWWGetr3kgh63Rhud-8kLdjvAqNo1kY1oc7l9f5Irv90urXBlAlo_NQS9SQ6Q0pPiFNoI3DltwLMhbkpjhQqjrgvWbrHSBAcn7txj-Zi3pGRpV0HNPKKn7u8QnEGgEdQW7SETNFU=w1218-h913-no)

Then the finishing cut done in quite small increments to minimise the amount of filing that will come in due course
(https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/_1kQbQyMnvEkoXhlBT90bh8m1V95c4LSiSFJT3YXHhYVt9So5fPNcYyK59EOeBdqD3fohKEplYpDyd-1VCS4Wc099ovaR9FnLHHpflsDkkQrYQTh3iWamU7cEi2YgSlVrMWJjH-RrfyB2MrRMcNdsjZMBsNbwY_0-1wl75mC3hGU5IpsTmwk0LpjNhxuRq_D3oJZB3mLJIesW-2BX3W7n64qcbjj1_DnJsVzw8FqG-FWR6I4wS2bMPNIlaebEUcSoQiTHUBIgHKgpo-Azzm9W2oWu3Xkluc8vvnX5boW92MroOjgmBvkE6e2GGEXnK2Eo624sOzKJjmzO1rdvrVBVHflyr1Z9CU2MwNygpSG-RoLOoqjvJqjxVywEmk653zDnvG7jbYBG9iO_STbujHpLOuqfRk-IWU_rUOCS_up31NjBQnnQmOUOgxUmHnzEBzSOnbXJsLc1eY6l0cb2hXt5qZVAhGvsYOuSRaBxWQVFEDi4JAALND2OShxBl1HQvJJssb8sPWVc4OUz7tQ4jx1Z1PiTi44MbhAcfSZtSmp_vema_1gx_hByQzyxI7GiM_zzV0jhBPcYMiwra4fDmby9KfzpPZfhZsGCJbflpp44CAmssjfZaIQ3noE5QG10658wOEyiOpHCOSy0sgXCoqvZ7Kjwku3tOgh=w1218-h913-no)

The lower areas behind the bearing housing were treated in a similar manner and a start on the area above the mounting lugs on one of them. This was the current state of play tonight.
(https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/uf3v7zjIzHseoii4Zr4OI2Fyr6iPKETdHeUcQQ94Rgk9TUIViBI5z8ug9oosRxe34m1gPOD7ZGMq5lye_0AA9JaVKkCWT50PFuzoQtt-9Dk7uds-0__VOwTuo1Y9HLvZ4qZ4_ahfE-qszCb9iaU2PeDRo4O-NYMe1D5DYKF9hvMoxTJiytWYc2_5x072q7htIei2bKa328QU17wxvB5c6I3CFSFPdz8lm72Lme1iEQHp4f0wkledrGN5jAzr5UPFOJUdHCGWJCjZbKE2rh5ACXG_lo1D_Dmz0_ClIpCQg5PB2SFll1RkMmC74d7vKpJfmoeh0ZuWjTrmuqMWV0ZDBOFZH4mSnm_Gyhroh_xSUVi_fTuLQVkR4LVkGLpgBC3Bg_yDaOmBxZEYkd3oOU28lUv8aGEsJcKLKbUdxLeb7nP9s6p6HOvwFQK9iqMBBvAiOf7n99AgOj-REIP8zHixVQdS2GXj3GsGgEgQ4MN3muBjjd1pRZvganszkoQPXARblmBUuoEgHvEndE6oVthoUmh3y8SObwZTChZ2gIjRgfZVJjMi_WghoUJixemltgGsQFuwT-FWl5v6S0oHb5sCaQ4jzlFjWys-JPKDioEXPSGMRGfjmnpA9kEbx9Oz-JHwQxJgBHdTYIGP-0LJKkIprDuo3mxobJw5=w1218-h913-no)

Doesn't seem much since the last post but another dual purpose fixture has also been made for machining the top areas - Rome wasn't built in a day as they say  ::)

It's a matter of slowly 'picking' away at the shaping now taking one small area at a time and doing it on each case before moving to the next bit. Very easy to machine away something that you don't want to so 'steady's the word Jack'

Hope that's of more interest - Tug

Title: Re: The Oliver Tiger Mk III - a 5cc Version
Post by: Ramon on February 17, 2019, 08:27:02 PM
Hi Guys - a few more pics of the latest progress.

I've decided to break this down into three stages, the first to be the surfaces below the engine lugs, the second will be around the top and the last will be the difficult one around the venturi inlet.

The lower 'pockets' were cut first, establishing the lower web width and the lower faces of the side webs
(https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/JMabKd1ZUB8Lq_nvmrCsAqoP1EIrD26ZBlxxNmW8XoDjmc4yiX1mN7kYso3RclnJH-OXmBllkmFjTODOuLTNJxxQ7grT2ehyImMHbuSDbjEfoKU39DzoXKFuZFN81XyOEp1ToeXiEhbrmXFJ_X3zo2gnpDfDb0nHxfofIORVxeNfXAEtX1bvw5rGbof6Fy5Eb6_tdWPSpKn_GDzA0M8pGU1CR6CAwLMdOm17Vit0_LMDIR1c9QhHOokwWq4aIMWV_1PavPONPpIjQ0TizjazkIpMt43FtLWT6ibYQ9VekcqUigc-l7MqcQEShQowob_NPB2GBX_QghhpbbZuuCdVxep8TZf_VD0gwW-8oA9ZNvh-3f7k4giOMnIiWI8Szo104stavp4XshclUhwUUhp253F9hNNDLSCnJnO3U7S0IRdWYr0H-VGmipgbM-zdCnkMDu6HofZl_fIb1ZAU1KC5UZROnArCoJTqEjJ6PSBgCJ-fLsrQPDt4QWF0O4mhPsKdeKpvjrNYW4jOhxw3KUREWtKTtm0RqkwT35kcxjZNTVzurbSGi384WaUhjU15zgdzaZGWBJ3-ZDlsEQ20sQttQKV2hUrx9sRlyxUldiSrfTyuCzQal2d8jXcS9VhAQ6xVJ_i9FOJalY_jZAl5xT_TkW4_Da9hr6v-=w1218-h913-no)

A step over chart was drawn and the profile milled with a 1/8th ball nose slot drill.
(https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/dwlnlhuRBufbiMz2OHPJjR3SYp4MWI9Iwjdd3RHbUU1I-eFRYnvdnh2IytMm7HjHBRbEjKmH0SD-rXkYXSXfGi7I-wZTcXPuqWGKJbkfszxRlckLtw2cLU7FAOiSqlI2Ll9HUzpmDe5AEdXp06FjIcAWdQ23szMUWGbVM3--ylsZ8jbyMetdH2TCVlsTRHtACTNBrSy_QTz1Z8BKfIXnj82QO9XMqmO32XFBwZxHf3Lgfuauep26nmCeqmQ80i99WIF-8Oij0cHVtW0as3mPv8L6duONHcaAU4qzW8bOCqIDGY4DnwmOd5QpU3VBbYjGhGfIg1A0kVlrF0ZGgMBthhYfo1-TMd3w0sTvav9rTClHqrPZUZG5kroZSkw03lDC-PcbFxyz1XQ8NjYvmz9YCqIv2SQZlXdk7V5I_ippR_78mr1tGCa3orbrWRchW1nQDIyk8t4It5WC4cQP6m0hdw1TzrGXkEHgQ5XFA46MzkwGAOlXfmXphTdn_OVy2ehkLUOMjQN5e6S7Zsc3ZdPwqBYLUWzkv3QJvBrFcPsh58mN9N1OUHT0YmOrZyqnSxtuogJYeknZS29d4BzqeYs0xEHWkszqWxpxFIZVnfK_mkzk7UHAU_osWi79OoPQ-wPR-HnV_1_mh-GjYfTlxEBwlInynuHN1TB8=w1218-h913-no)

Inked up with a felt tip ready for the ops I enjoy doing most - the 'fettling'
(https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/DzBxvhteI9lM0Y8hXtZyeahKDq--vVXCdcNJ4Wj1etSS_EbVW3JsoEJEzmPJh0rObcjjuHu2tFXAnvBgCxIzXYEj56SBgNycuDtLpGOML2wlTo5oRQp82mQIrFwm-tRJ7d6Dgxit_Q6Afz_iqm-AfvE6PLKWg2JzwEBEVNEsMmnkUJiOv0qj1dog4rdhd0Rqcb_MnMdYscSX9EOXHu1wdwJul1o7jytbSVjThl2EQnfg6Zp1YZI0egb90KlKPQAlpaudyWFFnn6cOd16fR5-OkSyiFYj5r7yix5Dw1l5hi3IT8ybDfm8s9WxuhMVYEzNNPRZjupgXFm0YLd4i2TWc-8TbdFuOWuBHfYP12f9hK9Pn5MhV_64fM9o6ISXKZi9bHNEoCGI7AOUc7KE9-uXliLDPgUt72dARf18eBbDz2PwO--VuxVHmDnb0ThSVLiWopySLV7a3tpuPNUiEFUwOYI-cYCDhPMWAU0EbhsI36OyBvrJ-w-qi8sd8LZ-qI2mcgaDi1UwXUcFlbJ9XhZRuiiou3Y14OifPRt6jO2qRX0OU78F5Uz-7azmvUgEBGlhldIqV4QcZsa3bh2D3kkMR7u-P2WZQ-2X2_drIo31Q9AWIAWSVskYSfHUd1YgAgpFFLN-RqgPqWqZHBZ7fnP7RS9g3ocQcyPE=w1218-h913-no)

Initial stages using a tapered 3mm diameter carbide burr in a Dremel type power tool running at about 10,000rpm
(https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/jVutC1HRX3EgKqHnG532olrjSbPYuTz-pdaXuZM5PdXVFSrS8JbV_LH5NirMdY7aHZ9SNdRb5B9GAPy5vXVFXNoVSuG61KaLFBYHW8oN2p-yg-fUc5Qav0ZmupsFPrcSDYKDRhNNsQcsJ-ZDmz_4ADFa2DPzLqztj3a4zb-zkLmU7LT3u8QljIZjmg1knHJWpwmA5e8HAAaUGeBBWEXvG8qYI2JBTmpMdug-ZM1JRyWZ02AA35lj_m3LxWsF-A4sAnAR32oLII9kI4m4rTzqiUgCAYJJfuy9xJiH2MnPU_W5G9qMF0qzFamFzHHm8kSfLKnnpidnaeKfTL4ghNK8MhU_XHTr9xekNSfdW2FH8FRRLfMAqvWXNjjUbUeXcpJUC_zsv6pAgn57crMWBjmYEp4Z5jrxgNr_EHeyBAApOSKQsUx7yUDndkzj6jf9JbqJgIlWM-W8gySIobyDnITLStksHhHRcdPZa3vzTz-r4jZOilS9vsWTtAfCs0P2bVwR4Hi3lx2aD5Waxm699Jh-xbtaYPoAWmsAkRJu5HKzUM25yKz1gRH59hLHp7l_Y994LBfLW2clzDJVxDhs1NSHqwXuAWv0tYw_ZPBE-j3E1qlhz7tmY_NJclH5EiNtBch-ytOgrn2ZnytfIHB0sqSEQf21m4j-1WjW=w1218-h913-no)

Front ends done ready for shaping the slight curvature in the rear portion
(https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/L3myUU7NPec8LNlJ-6ZCmlTBhXayNAzUGFDisa2rC8aZMY7-Ur5YuOSxmG_nfDBv95biP96ZhQaXI8FYeT6cBYJ2K6HIZFOXhOfbbMY3L2KzIiOo5n1aRg2Tjijv9ayIpaoUHEEBhQOXUSwgoi0aSc9X3KNugEx7_LWIC4-1feWjYw2MJxztcPPtIlza6CWbJRjmy1V_Kh6Z8mPFUOUAVKq1ZUgwRJLEPc81rdAq-_RKb603wHT4Wyh_zCVmLnit5S3_EGShncT_bC_OJlFBaYHLIXUY0uqTZ4M-JUpmyCh-QN9rPB93eZY72EZPIJdyaoI99SBvCLmOak9g-yjpnLtBpmiETUiHUoSA3XT0xzh8ZvIyZ5CPR57dQWwqhBoWMbLzM7YYQi6dGpY1sxWmflOdp0I7uN-8Tzw_vRB6hH1jIfUNIZI2_13XAyQHL7IR39OUH6kh1tnwoYfLpvVvcpvu1SKyke5Y5Q8_InUB7bI-arcMbXo9-XuiR23m71MD3OOmJXLmwPcYmyTmKfdBGKuQSei8Gnp6TfTF-VQxIAQTc17xL9-0Wl8y51X_PNWSPh2ikjW9EMKe_3zwDmKvlj-xtwjcBxKuX8lj-dfGKhBOWKG-FDr99ujxJS3KjAE534tKPpOn4hmdMNx_xmt2PKz-l9_mhBHG=w1218-h913-no)

Lower faces all done.
(https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/kvAQhYeg8qHCK7ncDYHDQv3NOtUYRY_QAUjR9r42RTz1ovFKcNtBhnPWCobYrrbGxP8AZjZjkUCKHk1kQY0FJk1seYl3yJM-WOeMYJITREzN7LodbK8ROBGYnjPovh9EmQKRVbvSGIVGTGbtRk86axbFYhHxdLaBrOKpDjcFvxhjGbZBPVVng1eLEjCewfnHf-Va-u0TMEzlsIrevgxKhXZg9XKRtiRRS6mC-bz_BTnalq3A3VGc0WkBQlTy2ZYasM1wUDelmL2eLLVtsOqCBp8gE4wd-unIH4ieIOsDDCsbrhLFQFAKVQ59t_unTQt0MwN6D-HG_LBpwrkQ85fbkwuU45OQW0te67jKbdlG_zRLe0cnVZ3Nb_Gohnv8n4mdZaAShBdraKG7OSQG5MkgZM5V4JrGXScFBdp_sGxomzZAzccdCRxlt_dL8XgpaOalQBoQSoxgKIE581ojCXytxkS8pOVvvYBaU0cqFapV2POeQ8y1s0o0EUdQYye4pwjwIyjS4WmYTp4ZrN3tXWiIC0WhohpO8ln_TW6Ay3bhpavt9w0j71f1_Q_Skba1JKap4aOeOwFzSwS_afrVZKzQ2pYnTT4T02k4d7qypxys8offZhexPe46I033IJTG1eVkTqk62r8qphM6CNm2OsBZL1fAInQvOZZk=w1218-h913-no)

Final(?) 'finishing' was done with a mounted grinding point running at far lower revs - just a few hundred and ostensibly 'sanding' the surface. Lots of paraffin used to stop the grinding point loading up. The surface texture looks far worse than it is in the hand. Intention was to finish these surfaces as previous engines - smoothing them and then bead blasting. This actually looks much closer to the originals engine's surface texture so it will be left as is for the moment until completely finished. I am hoping that bead blasting this surface as it now is will give a good representation of the cast original.

Next phase is to do the top - hopefully get a start on that tomorrow.

Hope you are getting too bored with these pics - they'll be a bit 'same-ish' for a while yet

Tug
Title: Re: The Oliver Tiger Mk III - a 5cc Version
Post by: steamer on February 17, 2019, 09:52:10 PM
Nicely done Ramon!    Nice bit of carving there.
Title: Re: The Oliver Tiger Mk III - a 5cc Version
Post by: b.lindsey on February 17, 2019, 10:15:08 PM
Beautiful work Ramon. Those curved surfaces look great. Nice save on the bearing depth issue too.

Bill
Title: Re: The Oliver Tiger Mk III - a 5cc Version
Post by: Admiral_dk on February 17, 2019, 10:33:54 PM
Great progress Ramon - I really admire your patience and the result of fettling those "curves"  :praise2:

I have previously started on restoring my vintage Viking here :
http://www.modelenginemaker.com/index.php/topic,6296.0.html (http://www.modelenginemaker.com/index.php/topic,6296.0.html)
But I broke my own rule about NOT modifying any original parts  :-[
So I decided not to continue down that road before I had some more time on an engine where another "cockup" wouldn't matter as much, and in the end this will be a kind of continuing the saga.
Title: Re: The Oliver Tiger Mk III - a 5cc Version
Post by: Ramon on February 18, 2019, 01:19:40 PM
Hi Dave , Bill and Per - Thanks for looking in and taking the time to comment - comments are always appreciated  :)

Shows how age affects you Per I had forgotten about your posting (and my replying :-[) on your engine  ::). I must say it's quite an imposing design so do hope you are able to pursue it much further.

I received an email from Neil this morning and as the context of it was new to me and certainly relevant to this kind of  build I thought it worth sharing - hope you won't mind Neil  :)

Ramon,
Years ago it was often required to rebore the front end of the Rossi 15
engines. The thinnest sleeve I made that was successful was  0.5mm wall.
Although mostly I made them 0.75mm wall. Some needed a sleeve like a top
hat. I always bored to final diameter and depth after the sleeve was
pressed in.  Funny enough,  for me the best way to assemble  the sleeve 
was making it a press fit and using castor oil to allow the 2 parts to
assemble. These did stay in place, even when changing the front bearing.
A common way of holding the case for the rebore was to turn a free
cutting steel mandrel that seated on the rear bearing end seat , and the
bearing diameter. It also was snug on the area of the backplate
diameter. I made these mandrels 0.01 to 0.02mm bigger than the measured
case bearing diameter, and 0.01mm bigger than the backplate seating
diameter. Heat the case until the castor oil smokes and it slips on or
off real easy.
I found that if I identify the jaws of the 4 jaw chuck with the mandrel
being turned, that I can get the mandrel to very easily be repeatably
set up again.
Great work on the engines and the cases. I like the way you did the
staircase thing to get the blend. It is neat how handy a marker pen
really can be, and ball nose and hog nose cutters.
Keep up the great work and the awesome pictures and the informative
write up.
Neil


The idea of using the castor oil to not only ease the fit of a press fit but to indicate the temperature is new one on me and sounds like a very good idea  :ThumbsUp:

I'm not too sure about holding on a mandrel just on the bearing depth but accept your experience in that it works in practice. I've always made expanding mandrels to do this kind of operation locating, usually, on the inner bearing housing and extending into and expanding inside the crankshaft hole for maximum grip and rigidity. As ever though, there's always more than one way to go about a job and this certainly gives credence to that thought . Thanks for that input Neil - it's a very useful tip indeed :ThumbsUp:

Comments are always welcome guys - I know some prefer not to have the thread interrupted but as long as they are relevant I always think they add to a thread - I'll leave that up to you but it's always nice to see that someone has taken the time to comment.

I made a tentative start on the top this morning - snuck away for five minutes from the shared domestic duties day  ;) Hope to make more progress this afternoon though :)

Regards - Tug
Title: Re: The Oliver Tiger Mk III - a 5cc Version
Post by: Ramon on February 19, 2019, 06:56:11 PM
Hi Guys

Thought you might like to see how that top area is panning out - pleased to say, so far so good  :)

Taking one case at a time the side profiles were done first before resetting to do the corner pillars
(https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/6waZhurbvyP-OXjNzbatFlvw1wVuKWM1M45By5inAqG9C7mv8PfnMkhgEniXUNt-cyHk_dzRf385RXvxEZBWOeClRWDI45GSUULSGnmRM5f5246HqtvA-kSGc3fsJD_DxiFSrrBU1ynuufJQPTtBtQl4cmsPMTr-ZKm7BGgESZeWCGmmBfhWkAYIIk6RUPkIXw4ggiBqsRtVjhE2wvPt8egqLAGSb3FYOYN-_oZCKCCnXlYsNHaX_Kuel37ZtY1lK_dNysUQFsL5fBJHIkZ46UALxSaotNqcQrTFpKJQn06fZRXh5SUHDqkMkGX-R3dRswklUQf_AaX-pVrMdDyNYiNQxOBcM5H-M-uG22gagV_r9Ei-Egt5mkvVwkSqLgTOcGItPHYT_lJEhnzuDlOOW7d2y0krX0V97c0u-fT6DbNRjMPSnxql0VSwLoL4HfBLJvqWgHCXuafZGi_JVX45wfmRL7qJBiC2gxNrCw1xQhAaPzuSB_viJp1zBLbuiPOrU6dsrxjND_PG-V1IkLal65T662rVghKfaEXEfXSPFkbGtSEwoCCTMd4HbTkenc6Mo54_KhKVHcUfVaKGFxkc_IxAMAguKnDXIvh0sGxIq-4BlQs1Jkjie0mancH4a0k-Cz0hkZcSzHnO9ZyxXaqNdivb8hu68cwj=w1218-h913-no)

All cutting was done using this 1/8 ball nose slot drill and plunge cutting. Tedious at a degree or two at a time but much better than the risk of that slender cutter plucking and pulling itself into the work. Depth was to the highest transition point then the fillets in the corners were gingerly milled out by eye
(https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/1Urs6ZXFBql8zC1y478WBchVICIppwM4s5W0V2VeVRm_n1yH4SaiZsQEy7LhgMuWy9apL-6Mg2LSF0FhXLk7_clYHY205UwGYGPaU_EhnhaY0uiXsIHsjU3J68hoGOmTOoXIdxnA7g6IKi2miOZpGKW_6pwIrRiP1TAuCXX1Ep3Jzx92YayFPO7TVbdO4N1flxPlrctnezuIWMlGm1mRvluSbJE1rGju-P_XMMbIGC6mV8UfeTlHLRudRMu_0N8qv9hd6YsbqvM9lhOzXlyWBQQg2AaCSmojpPTyCX-QXJK4TZKVCk_iMUoih50alL9SCtjhCq3BP9JAgUDDODj7vrhuHQaNXsQYLlgwCZQW-AcqQMSZLsDKrJ3zLamoRF12AkfJsaILwZhfsVbzqGzIrjdP01-YF4YZMwecLUjwx3tuX6C4oJ3-VYfVHF9LpNvobStQOoLyu9GKO-C4pkI1koFgIMOEN2D9qwK6UzeduwCkUYq6S8MFHjgUL4TZhabdIJwxMAQfy6QltsQny5up5Sj9rfrv2JfBtTBOqva2j7O6wgnFzSvFTpNw5woIq-f9v7vy5sienwzyPU4g8ZC1pdhK01Isi9x2VJ78dTO7sNE3kvs_lloJfu3Z5h2fPAG6p68TlAQIdGPhoxw6LGIIKw3RZHSxjkXM=w1218-h913-no)

Then the fun begins, trying to 'dremel' out the profile by hand. This looks much worse than it is and is the initial approach. Constantly inking up helps see where you are
(https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/vdknCS5IEUrT2xDEAtEdQUUtlDKwNLKQmQKzKc99fZcFRwJWMubdGwl_E41BOkhhdZF2uskOJCuW9vBDnkanWGuae1YvmmHTEmabwGprE_IfVAA_rwKCzEM9ldpm5bcaeqK0ynYmgfJqLLuVI4_ptFcwSpHkUJVxf9q9_mlGow-UR1gPumhysBBsIiiQd2jQc1duFAFFK2YtbA9J4yB-OPvwlVTu_ZI7QXFN5WFhNjG0Pl1I4IfZSnHHgJFUq0Jwb5NRjRDx71xGOYEhXoMqP7KiLd8zJg8VqU6tUZIEoGgfUQoZLKiVR3CetFa9DPmhd-MJEGPCL_cV1jt1W5wl6QhxN4vrFr9DIQdN4k5oKswOVg_AbPBrVtkBa85b2vSZknyvlhGMPwFXUWww0N-OP5aW35pmN2fX0_QotxkgHiarIYMPnru7EKRox5EzThOQeEiKB14sfdD9Hs4KfO94xDoQwKjTaFdSa_FwGElR2NXX3gHqdnnDjsOcQjyYSaiQwQ8DT6xRv2FIwnbuB0GHIbPVrODEb9Hc93QP9us7kJnNJo1ggXFx7sWkbIyHXwT52eDZVQtOH_4tWihQTxneYvD3rfhCDqOEHdrEYb-JAIVK7e-JCtizoWO76tCm1AyDMqv71DlgFUzTfmQPZ01U6dYy5zq119vh=w1218-h913-no)

This is the other side after the initial shaping - it still has some work to do on it before final 'sanding as mentioned before. Still not pretty but beginning to look like it should
(https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/TJDqjJ4K5RCWx8knzE709YGx2NtYdpYtxsY1zWcLaHEWIfoiAUmZqvgwokkpJxBG5uHER1U4Eo4F2mKW7pXFvIiLTkN8rBzC5L7P5sHPqdYATnS_OaKgpZwMO7s8noTF-ta5FrrkizZfFaCEgUTtuquvPBqoZRscldSHiSvZ-dqU3Lwkd3Ck7PtEhpd3U230WVRn7hVhcrIWV2jWi8PCZdzoVRGNUuYR3ZTdOJLs17fycj1YGdZ0r4x6vPHjMYm482Yjky-FLRg3rUXiR-Inhh1e-34wys_b8MayXcTrB9m0TIyo50VmaoiTEzd_8kqYHE9UrYdGhyTaLop_BPA-W7R0gkVp3TfTt0RUHuA7c0_m7fHvwCsBvQuAQcIopJziUg3sW7j3QdHJ0iEYB2EyVkJtT3LO8CrJ2y-qKOFAlGh-QnRmnk6VZfzm7kHgWKI8796M5-4qh164m6Ik6A3_1Idn32XeaCBWwbMG11ikv3S14WM_cevE8-t6SjCihKL1GpPBytN7YmW3_Ws6YW00jaLle2ZprmIMaxv9hT0KJ0wBJl2S8B9gUnxYALJrxY5Y8dSmTPFCHESVIICuvkqt25JJEzJJSmKAJXNyoOvD09X-40WjrBVipZtdb2CwIXovpXJ5RVT-k1fLtrdn3BhN6D5KZPhk9hji=w1218-h913-no)

I have two done to this stage, one more to do before tackling that area around the venturi - still have no plan for that as yet  ::).

As usual - hope that's of interest

Tug
Title: Re: The Oliver Tiger Mk III - a 5cc Version
Post by: sco on February 19, 2019, 08:47:57 PM
Ramon,

Still following on and impressed how you cut the profile by hand with the 'Dremel' - what type of bit are you using?

Simon.
Title: Re: The Oliver Tiger Mk III - a 5cc Version
Post by: Ramon on February 20, 2019, 01:56:59 PM
Ken -

Yes I think I am aware of the type you describe as have certainly machined similar but have not known the actual specification. I've always thought of it as like machining cast ali but the brass analogy fits just as well.

The material being used is very easy to machine - I assume it is HE30 as I was given it as such and though from a reliable source can't be 100% certain. I don't use coolant other than applied by brush but all machining on these cases so far has been carried out dry. I have not experienced any build up on tools even when roughing the blocks down. All tooling is HSS save any home made cutters.

I enjoy the challenge of machining from solid - I did consider some time back whether to go down the casting route but decided that the outlay to do so would far exceed the amount of use it would get. The nice thing about barstock is you have built in perfect datums at all stages ;)

I will try to source some 2011T3 and see if it matches what I think I've used before. If it is I have a very nice big chunk of it under the bench.

Simon - they are 3mm diameter, shaft and head, cheap carbide rotary burrs bought off Ebay. Twenty different shapes for around a tenner. So far they've more than lived up to requirements but remember its usually only on ali

Tug
Title: Re: The Oliver Tiger Mk III - a 5cc Version
Post by: Jo on February 20, 2019, 08:31:52 PM
That got someone's interest Ken he had to go and check his set of Majesco 45 castings  ::)

Jo
Title: Re: The Oliver Tiger Mk III - a 5cc Version
Post by: Jasonb on February 21, 2019, 07:31:02 AM
Machining from solid may be fun but it is not without it's compromises. For instance, and I know this is nit-picking, but with the exception of the mk 2 Tiger and one version of the cub, Olivers do not have an underside of the case which is a semi-cylindrical.

Ken, if you have a better look at Ramons drawings on the first page of this thread you will clearly see that he does not have a simple semi-cylinder, it tapers off towards the rear.
Title: Re: The Oliver Tiger Mk III - a 5cc Version
Post by: Ramon on February 21, 2019, 08:34:22 AM
Ken – you are correct, the Mk 3 does have this strange form below the engine lugs and an attempt to replicate this has been made.

Jason’s keen eye is on the ball as usual and the cases have been machined with this odd shaped area though perhaps not quite as prominently as the original. Though not shown in the pics I did this by resetting the tilting table at two separate angles and re-machined the rear portion – the transition points then ‘dremeled’ to give the curvature. As said, not exactly to the original form but close enough. I have now finished the top areas so will take a few pics to show this.

Though I do attempt to get these 5cc versions as close to the original shape as possible there are points where small compromises have to made - the reverse draft angles on the Eta cases is an example - but the overall effect is there - hopefully.

BTW I don’t see this as ‘nitpicking’ – as said previously, any comment, providing it’s relevant to the build, is always welcome – it’s input like this that makes posting worthwhile.

Norman’s Majesco is just that – majestic. A superb result. Has he done any more in similar fashion? (Edit- Do you know how he did that 'M' Logo on the transfer cover - very neat indeed)

Tug

Title: Re: The Oliver Tiger Mk III - a 5cc Version
Post by: Roger B on February 21, 2019, 11:08:37 AM
Is there an expected benefit from the shape of the Majesco exhaust, does it match the ports?  :headscratch:  Looking at the rest of the workmanship it must have been designed like that.
Title: Re: The Oliver Tiger Mk III - a 5cc Version
Post by: Ramon on February 22, 2019, 09:15:07 AM
Morning guys

Thanks for that Ken - he certainly made a convincing job of it. I've yet to do a sparkie - I have one near complete though and did intend at some stage to do a Hallam 9 from solid - the main block is prepped but it got overtook by diesels.

Simon - here's a pic of the rotary bits mentioned. The ones laying in the front are those used and include a discarded dental burr cadged from the dentist. Run at top speed on the power tool (an alleged 20,000rpm) they work very well  to take minuscule amounts off.
(https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/i9CdmC9dNRfyoO7cIul4UDkBOxOK2PZjZCiDwxga-a5HjduhPoh0dep3wJN2mlLwdC23F-oACl13JqMXPwPvEjk4L86_NhFbsaDeJ7surGHqXbElIp-BzQx6x5UQn_wsevCSOYyV-VSlVnJosvcQKSDlya5I-jSHwg1yL5Kfnv7uNyW6AA73KLy8uYnOerVPMGaR01X00ZVcnZAz1ujNLUDol2KvT_hCww8XJ1dCM_Jj6iZifv57rNXH6vIbH34yXPrkv_SbxewpzsUwFND26N5X4ELwo7ZxmUsGE5LV2x0iVnomByWjZSnNbgX1e8oobeah1ox3argcYLHXad1-WX8PfsRsKl1fnYNoTiYmo21_iovsQQbEfng6kgiYofzGpv5y2cq6TUi4uh_mVBZfL7RBbh4IJZFvlbxAEXM1GadHDDu_QK1CoEf3w5BJQLTRyyLHPNvWjc-GH0MHLeMl_pf05TIOtH1mPNNuVyCOoxzRa_k6qm_oLlRIugNjbqvlXjmtt683JlohsB6dPSXh3W_Q8a5_NPkk-aLJ46g6Ns2Wf1I2Dcjb8oxNW1ghnkZclP9iTPPDZPwQ3YYFVTcgV32GMIkdXOrK78hzyhZjJCcNfKH2M_0uHr2FfRlrCXWOVh1Q17kkhj0iTidYnNyntKvmin9gkW7E=w1218-h913-no)

Ken - this shows the attempt to contour the lower case - not quite as pronounced as the original but enough to convey the impression
(https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/gZMTNvCX3rDQhTYftZCC9kX6HvBw--VgoxHODAPHILgIgLzsczd9vfBLqxKMS43nlVA4YX_lxcZwQ2C-a7OuApNgQBxyTUIFLSmL0l-QbM7nmaAKBif-rh2BsjSB-z71iG2iAPpS2O_Z9geeUEVbzaZPPIu35O2KoHedhsFyavOnrqFKvuy5OYCGq3MXa7q_9VOZ8PvHk5BArMVqOvWcs2xXkBxRNjTQERRaq4ZcsIl-t8WWGa3oD5Aa2X8Xd22yq_ACjsDpsYaS9tQ3ba-F_CfhbLkUpfFLpf3NNVu2-y-LMQZHfScXGopCoQ-Z3YDAyOXkt5Zt6doKlD8MvpVW2wA6mfiBDPQMylOVedl-4QMjyFHmNglduptpdX4ugdGcUQ0Hwv6vmsLmB9dyrvUfEN9lNZrTa_XNkqJpbmj_AKxPm6E2TyA0KnEEYDqfUCBJHX2-q2CXYdhasFD8mIpXCVAIL59T7nV5xjLDSWx_FvXMiM1DqgROBUo_Qo-WTOEL5B8CRDs6F3cfoWSAk09XEIL0by7iiPgDlt1_hGWdVGSBT696wZ2A_Et-aliodPVXtJhfn6d1VXZkytckoFeY17BMmDoKRYTmkvjFGnhZjReLLcl68GdNVq01CQhQ0DmRxoEE1yisVQRTXMHnohLKRRbWwiX9Q5aB=w1218-h913-no)


Made a start yesterday on the final stage on the venturi area. First op was to reduce the width leaving sufficient on for final machining.
(https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/PGVS-H2rpJRrxRAAL5vfnNrqiZa9NIk0HZ1vp_uC-Ks8E8AouNxwdiZr6_Oo9NRC7wisrYDtYrOALX042DRs51xXyFQHNDsAFPv6wFTyY6Sm14elqaRwsQIruwpmlRQ13EX9nK1APjkNdTB6Du-XcMsTJjH0UFst_0sWt4_ANVcGrWvrT8Zbbq_uxTv4br8xUW61qmFYO51-FDuCvZL7EyNruj89Ygl_bXiE9GtLbrPLvN6NfbuSib5FJVZ8gC1cegK8p4HJCd9TtjFGa_uAUWXGuPBtVGf6yUAo17RjaNj2qlZf8ywUaku3pn5tdNWB85foBjhWAhck8mvUI1u3xVqZ8_UhgCCxsOo6Ju9d0c9duVq7f1-X52CUcURNr78MLy40MXstVpliOFA7lSIioeOIuj33yWdH9WjrDP4CczKCfRE_ViVVGk1TVa4ro1T-gL1HshLbK3sgVQTl71sM6maf4iV5O96KmXal9JmjYGoXipnBiseIzbFgMTOsXKNLwaJoAhB-qU2eQ9HYmpe9h_ya5B9hnNLriOfERqitNYfigALhUAS0lKJvrYnowxiHL8GQmK-4Yex5hXh-5n2y-CWEzmKgXnO3N4ZCd_Wx7lY-I4YbfZHNbKVOnbm98ZY9ewMP3QbZRsn1pTQH3e5rl7AFNfFwoJ3S=w1218-h913-no)

Some of the surplus was just done by eye and plunge milling. Looks really ugly at this stage - you just have to keep telling yourself it will get better  ::)
(https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/1DjoTXI-4f3eM_J68tNlQXl6Pmc9ehMtKxrA9VSX7T3uG5XRWwTNT0xMEGiVwKe9TLzjXpNe4wrP3iYmM3TVtZNOQonBzM80yEzzWZLpJQzRbXNKxszsFaW2g8B1EUJi57PcSP81NZBgCXoia4fEhIHtyCUbC2jKWm8xBh45sjakz2dgj9RRhqHHvSHOCAKoyoYA7qn778DhJTms0c6h-LPv4CIKn_qjWM6ZOq_4WDcpQ9ctGhidxbWC_zd-xfoc7pOniDRg0kr2E7spsfNSVXZWSNLDIIjFBqq0yBRMUCR82k0POphGvuXM0yuFiMNMSB4dpvGmB2rQvKOlAWji_aFPuj0e--I3lhvIIaDqnBLgMRTlyhdJTQOv-m-puwyMnW_ogzyLKSnS-guWa9ZWMFAyQ6u-JO1bO1tLGX-ZhK3nk9MxJYuGlgXgBxcmIGEAvqdVNucfB8UjNAPMUP_eGLvS21R7fNwgSRy_---Q2An5axwEsXYcrpghkmREwREuE5EfrNc4yUTsYoSTpQtBDqG-VWFZoIUgMZBrCZxUt6nPu4AxzpZiTpjaiaJB5XNmTP4MmxQ_mIIF2ORQu1GqxlvA8OMQqWFnhH4SCB7A1nUDdw2T6LwZDfoRfrPkKAPIdaXSpwRii_airc3CMmwd9lS_os2wkx_Q=w1218-h913-no)

The top front area was done by stepping over again
(https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/oF_bSAi0q4qxQeXZqtzEGL8QoSLs7y_B8OzNa8N7mHgBjvVfYnVZg7TTW5zXuHOk1jf_QoLwrx9QctJvk8QtEKcSbOGLmcIvcZb3jjlfUuWukd9cANEvU3N5Oh3PUBq8lxKenXglxIdpA92z4kdzY4ijh4ZyRLiZ15Kn7ernPlUJyq_IXrOHFCh7pAinfued_cq4lScGFarvkHD_Jb1GGeslj-BlQZc7QTE66CxQVS8WzJEkQsME8T2jIVCHMoauECH2wZCji8hoFhIC2CfNwa1VMcu4Xwh4t9HluBdvFWeLJLV8V-LjLIjuJMsgrJLi0Wb5wSpIegyX1677EjliFS9NfvLZCug17N8O_QwN-K-Ym4pS1u-d7q3tlG87rIgQS7ZQhhgPtUVnzN8HuDHgd4HhJcUsjiBn2pDFYTDOAag2_-9PJJjjMp5-GJ1ALf-ax4c_YgKXSAr_0pPLMR4Oxnbv226dj_eCJVaMEdkWIr4p4-SSWX9qC60vYJKx6WBQkNTEECGCb6KKt0PJd6orGjvCAr2l3TnxyafKQnKIK42ehTp4NrE2OpINcau7Dkf0-2HH6NHbcyc_w3VioGpdkmwuv8t_4t1eLXqW6n1KZGgSilkeu7ZdrcnGtHEV4ozgtHGuUEnzlJIRVl4jJKCN75mYn3F39vfU=w1218-h913-no)

Ready for more fettling
(https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/_SqfVu3Af4-4or6l9hGn2eSCoAjxzhb8fr1HRncAdbq9RaGbuUNhB5TXYunsLViFdifDMngpAQlbanaMN7_TieHLvPr8MzBf8svTnBIQX5KGtxN5vGY0VjtIDCkJ_Oq11bTKSUytmh3yab3CcgSV6hTdyaCI4W-DnwsjiDGthS9CHiZAypcj2smhWX4jfdX1U_sU0lwovl8762TM23E__WP3reGB8sR5b2S863krnm1mnua9ti-CF1qmhsYFBvIKUqPkvqJVuNIFZ8q6eHoeYvL-FYta0XUUdFaJgtyucFeRTmC5VJDRcVOaCYVXcOBbbfqblvuX-2nPT9nc79uZq4vgtawy1nZMX58p0oMtZgEmfl4QCYU8tazszvWd6fdbikeo9wtfrS59cqOUL_PKjwz-f9yYsnoyO1QWR3nFCIgfT_OtDz-l5gLnebugzK1n7Mn_IE50-wI174gyTWRzVo-Z6c4O8gPRWXOCj2VQffolms9ttC9lfcSqaOupyH2jV5BS-P0EwFo3dBm-2D8on9hMbz3zSKepGIPLpNE4LguRG0ff67TPRyMYhMR9fAkYVCKloYOb6p_LPWaL3wED2mxrtlIOFUf-ljqvN2Bm7H_dZRe82KqEk6gl4DFoQzxjXpiVpGQ5IrOwRK7W0RebrMDfrDgv6tgk=w1218-h913-no)

Still a lot of work to do to finish this but the shape is there
(https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/eISEolV7XZ2iIHUeWOawYjgOHrWy8oyHLxDW4pB6-YWdN5eP_tQSsrcL-1DHmg4XijzruJxnb0fs9p8HWnso-cgbMKHrQzBvhea5trOf6ld0tl_09MQ87FjZqC3ECj3G7dvKHx353xQKnFzfF5GLdkDQFT6bIba0mLMm4KGK9J69eKRqGQ1UveJ1f2Z9g6w9P29Ocxkx0021vxa2nT1dX5OMW7_zR52qHakBbVzjE7paIIt5j8fOM4-qLplrvFBo7N54NbbrFSeRKBaAjquxu93apXRFVizDfKQ_AZCrbQhOFaec7k6ppkZ5-TjKyzPivUmpW9aLiAB5Tk9kBelzZ2QNCkU49ny_HDJSMlazBi4QCegZjjrlUsc_SqybZJqsKh9y9bIQsm4KyF3LR0qdZek5b9MKfsZHs-aGM8UFWpqUXYiO2E0o5EDMSCGnL7sqwJTVnPkw1_qrKdg0bvkhGD0PUMrBRMafxKeeTn4NZ3rK5BDjXwhSYL7nmkEkdUMmosn7UHntGVElKgve4eMwAnI6w-j6jzhGvBCwJn-CvnY5QwaJDEPBd9NYAARA8mkj07T9cFn9sbPTOieSZcCmwj7lbkfZNsjgPTPcUiDLNsnH684N_b8vo14N7FiYGOqEJPc11AerdS-UTiQTyx1wW0xOZWEjY-Ym=w1218-h913-no)

Ready for the final op to define that venturi section
(https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/GxvFsu12LpYvlkvtVCvX3xdvJnxSQ9EzSg2FSssq0IxXOoYoPWKJQI5-nApqFcRY-ZaDmg1JjT7-2aRsnyGrrN9UH_QyzqnqffpAbfKlXIae5INaAiclyhX-LtMusv8xsluKijeivdU2A-wfRkL-XEOoRP0YXkWkiagiSpL5KCZcJByni_asC25kBriQIYXZ9CkRzip5867IoDtlDN2UJ5OPhqppfWVlFQz0UCn_I86xxb_SvPfP53C3LBfWY6Bm9hnwb9RAoL9uaMG5gmBzAb3B2cVu6IUxGsAFlu6dkCEfMUJr8whtNCBe4IcNfQQuibIejyYHpL7A6YBtiB-5YlxFS52fFS917aG4lpgCMFsilFXmuadDTBW1JoOyll6uAzq-HcmXh8a6LvxC7693eIN-DVy1IcobcPUMJaJG0z4fvf8krzuJeNYCamammXdPuxLyuGiefPTPfftUibbjchYv51BivIrRO51cOY3NWQRahoyAFypiCHVzaE11IAolGyf0luQ-xXqIsWP-sJMlvXkJnpZwO_Jv2n24QjVztXuWDM7jHtiCELERqoLGCwocpERaaUgJDOxjwCbbtYaUDwMW_0j1O4hv9DwMikNvxKN2bKTWYwgm7OnoOmVweBr-vnLFPA7a3MK7kYcnjx61zXxzUXWLU8Ab=w1218-h913-no)

Each op is done on each case rather than repeating a series of ops, that way tabs can be kept on each step. The case with the red on it is the trial one to check if things will pan out - so far so good.

That's it for today

Back in due course - Tug
Title: Re: The Oliver Tiger Mk III - a 5cc Version
Post by: tangler on February 22, 2019, 10:14:20 AM
Tug,

That's terrific.  I love watching this stuff.

Looking forward to seeing the finished items in the autumn.

Cheers,

Rod
Title: Re: The Oliver Tiger Mk III - a 5cc Version
Post by: Mikesplanes on February 23, 2019, 09:28:43 AM
Hi Tug,
I am new on here.
do you keep a log of how much time it has taken?

Mike
Title: Re: The Oliver Tiger Mk III - a 5cc Version
Post by: b.lindsey on February 23, 2019, 12:56:51 PM
Some really impressive fettling there Tug!! Thanks for showing the burrs too.

Mike, when you can please post an intro in the introduce yourself section.in the meantime, welcome to the forum.

Bill
Title: Re: The Oliver Tiger Mk III - a 5cc Version
Post by: Ramon on February 23, 2019, 07:54:19 PM
Hi Rod - good to see you looking in. Yes they'll be well ready for a run at Forncett (well hopefully in the next few weeks  ;) )

Mike - I don't keep a build log as such - just the posting on here as each stage is reached or daily progress. When I'm in my workshop though I guess I average 6-7 hrs a day. I began these on the 7th of this month.

Thanks for the comment Bill, I'm beginning to realise just how much I enjoy this fetlin'


Well I'm pleased to say that the last op has gone really well - far better than anticipated in fact. The milling proved easier than imagined and the fettling has so far produced two of the three cases

First was to set the venturi true to the spindle. I turned a threaded insert to fit then held it in a threaded bush and centre drilled it after cutting the slot. This was set tight in each case in turn and centred using a ground point (discarded cutter ground to 60 degrees)
(https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/eAvLtPxZ3lSdexlRfYB7-zHFDmmrWQWugpygowMeMuuVlGgo9D4DCk01Op4M47Ftb2GcgPS0al2ggMieYNAIJhPK1SwUgZjzccYvgaEeK6JRTyXmmywnuUSmfG_eGrQLnSv7d4a2guqOfZsk_O6-PLbfbenQuSqXzockGu1jnjbu1LZ7xC2h42R7HukEC8_4-kSvvrPXH6pH9JaNN4TPM32qi03BFdw7YVTZAXyFAVWrF-NRXaUYhad6HZ_gp3seTo3eFCZSFyy2y0EB1Ta2rfOWesOD07_4BzV6aOIlCg7Fs5oVmcOt5oK8exaeljN9fYdm8vI353XDq9eJT8g-dhderP58gJuqtBafQ9QC69_ENJyoLXNdk-r1pitznbHvsddqtdLYdnbw2wHMir9xCnDiZ2xfPyFgi2uVrDVUFdDXBW_mYdIOt1tKY67fi3KVi0MISSu1xIjqLTXIgUsr4ULvyWDxClqE4AI_0X435YurcgY3OERodpdDkLtkyHKnYYBiBfm7q_fJpO10dOjNm5eoxlhXra6Pl3YQ3X0oqqOz6UPbSdb_2j3ohJqLB3qZhOKfsroqTbETywQbJtytadFNzqSs2_P0eH0G55CoVhhuR4DtAaXKEBuCXjkk87zoMgOhCvPQC2l_2Bog1TEglED_2aKgTy4C=w1218-h913-no)

The milling was done using the same 1/8 ball nose slot drill in a combination of plunge and rotary motion. The depth was judged purely by eye as small rotary movements were made on the last cut
(https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/TgOqMmGZTwRc2u-PfHnSIpGNXJRdtaM-FI1s87CYqARlqbZwgqX8BJMakqHaj2RTlXzQ3h5Lb31SKgNgWbl178bhWgrV_9JvkIZv_ipoaCJyNxku86IXTiQDyuPw3w-QvtfvCASSQqCxTcFMtGG4jR57aqlozWdG-PWdEQKmT4iEE3WnsoZcVpK4x8v5PCPPKIKjYapHuHSuOnKBE3PQnk_ZidqpgLzo9nKy041t46c1N4SHGmjlbNiEycpwdxl-6usDiqMjkjzyfxfEm8PMlhckoLWGBEQ_OIJM8QKRlsdq3iSrmH3NcNCBN5TfS2rWSdLfgqyZ8Mqj0kziC1zt43q620AJbIlz-qh9vhS_pMLjsXAsUBVWBoCvmGPPy1uG7Kfd35GUZC6Bq-A9O4ELBuNwbfYsX-S-g1jXUrsLQROWtjIjQqjnHQ547DHr-qImm3gPSEn3q5AmiEVwOnerEaVwiZlQodi-m7QvlfVGbWnDErGNH6b-ExotMG10b_NEc4jYnvB744e_AGEglTKsPgnMRqHRQituGVJRGvO6Uhv0rpDKr00l1zBZvsotO38hknpfuz7qGZcUsSChtLcAuzih3KuLmGLduIYF4fEkPWRPyyHyBqWstL9lNxWGeHaUL5uFJimbVrikNu9P-n3TXbjPdCXXSUGG=w1218-h913-no)

This was about the maximum removed - far better to leave a bit more on for filing etc than to overdo it
(https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-LIcnzoc5eRw-cUUWcK3OA8VA-RVvfzBOWvWeoQmG6ZSaFcsWwGYIZsLjyJ964pwIRBS1-1YNXOOZiW-cmeo7wwMvoBEbm92tZdHbFaz9Xvv1yNpTa2KEzHak9P59sDGlTF4097FOX39_SpznhkFWFt_3_Sj1FHccwP4DVOjToGt8qL4UwLmn0Sqsu7e1C2ZqRZawBfmi_MsPsqTE6-5e8VKPlaMQxUql7A6FaC7Xv2BXqlhn_HlOThtBel3l8zoLWqJPw--wPHHGP4HsnTIVr5--hKBvPZNpGeFLOcDE0jhSAp8ziwVQaSHzEEtvasCqfqnyJnpDx_ws5jey8gUTJxkLwFQCxs7HBX4FZVFRlgbmK0yulc4bvoxEi5b-E_rrRf0TtZJnEy7agRs58SEmYS_ccIHIR85RTuyIj2hEWorgg85GJn6Nv0DyrGQdyLfeyErgnzL4jclqT9RwcTj0qff75gwpom3pNJMRQfT4MFYiWfGgu2nbsq4CaqLEGQXsVMSLT7ObOjgGvFu6-UgrkY4aqoySGIuIjDR4MA0RvhQjfmRpHZqeA0cji8NhchI9jnm3lkByCOF5GCme_jw3eqb1wob2tKDD0-bEH9_qbRK4SgjQwfx1Y_yZs7vOAGUye_eXURL0gvqSiYJstyc_3zHoDj_f8pq=w1218-h913-no)

Here's the result after about an hours fettling on each case - mainly done with the rotary burrs and then finished off with rifflers. Though the basic shape is now there they are still not 'finished' - still a few minor machining ops to do on the lugs and the webs before the final surface finish is tackled. The one in the background has just been machined - literally - and will be fettled up tomorrow.
(https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/YXmnc-TvLUGnxvEw0GHeICr3lQr8wmKDA9K1q1We2zPBDXjUd8J_q_qsQjMYsehw3DqJQ5SpMo824HouRYaci7VcugAuNVWbrSLL1cpezhjS9395o8Zxa2_WGdasqtfT4rJnULeEYNB2sOPVmlt9oxuyQ71GxWxdEWB6dB4FVFYAYrKybrL1X-Fs0vKN8FQwcr2nevgtqiMOYA5ugC36N6uxn9L0sD2-ioaMwq8r1mz_Q_BzK506pHKwvdrAGxsaZ9tDOYoORXvlzitOQe-dkHHBmKyILk5Q0gfERIrz9rg4ECf7oMgCidZRbmFXNyvyH-LFGN6-9IfY-T3UarjbbAaQO9jKfgvkSRWLqrFcf8gvgRycYQUC1YgQ98IfHbhtanw0vR7BaypNTpb1Prfeh1eukXG64XCOxGau7IqRdLdFZERxZqDam45dnkq0nGzhQrZTx5NHwthkiBAkIeL1fWPJ0LA4zZrtK6gOxq3pxoECElHSowWVySjZb6s_jgmaZqehnTSzu68wPLbKGepm8H5pgysD2f3UpepMDUzZwTQRqMB98eTkdbPvBXPucm6IpgzW296K0l5Y48D-8LFLM1EFANmSLJqpBBVvi80yVMdeMROcJpLux8P6aoYnLwaSsaNRrfavAiXeX3hZA03dRz9jXSqCjOfE=w1218-h913-no)

Well that's the latest state of affairs, 'hot of the press' so to speak - thanks for looking in

Hope you're enjoying this as much as I am  :)

Tug
Title: Re: The Oliver Tiger Mk III - a 5cc Version
Post by: sco on February 23, 2019, 08:15:27 PM
Enjoying how these complex shapes seem to just form out of the solid - impressive work Tug!

Simon.
Title: Re: The Oliver Tiger Mk III - a 5cc Version
Post by: Admiral_dk on February 23, 2019, 08:21:40 PM
Oh we really do   :praise2:    and I'm glad that you are back to enjoying the process again  :cheers:
Title: Re: The Oliver Tiger Mk III - a 5cc Version
Post by: bpudney on February 24, 2019, 01:42:43 AM
Wonderful work Tug, really envy your skills and approach to the task!!
cheers
Bill
Title: Re: The Oliver Tiger Mk III - a 5cc Version
Post by: Kim on February 24, 2019, 06:04:08 AM
I haven't said much but have been quietly following along.  Tug, your work is more like fine carving than machining!  It's truly remarkable how you whittle these pieces from a block.  I find it just amazing.
Kim
Title: Re: The Oliver Tiger Mk III - a 5cc Version
Post by: Ramon on February 24, 2019, 01:39:32 PM
Simon, Per, Bill and Kim - Thanks for you comments guys  :ThumbsUp: glad you are enjoying it.

Just to say I now have three viable cases and have begun the final machining ops - the transfer passages were milled this morning so some pics later.

Right now the weather is just perfect so I'm in the garden for the afternoon but it looks like we do have an ongoing project  :)

Back soon - Tug
Title: Re: The Oliver Tiger Mk III - a 5cc Version
Post by: Chester on February 24, 2019, 04:47:02 PM
I’ve been in the background peering in, you certainly got my attention with your artwork here Tug
Title: Re: The Oliver Tiger Mk III - a 5cc Version
Post by: Ramon on February 25, 2019, 08:28:49 AM
Thanks Chester - always nice to 'see' a new face on here - hope you are enjoying it.

Apart from boring the front bearing housing the cases should be finished today so a couple of pics later - meanwhile there's some very distracting gloriously warm sunshine - garden time for sure  :D

Back later - Tug
Title: Re: The Oliver Tiger Mk III - a 5cc Version
Post by: Ramon on February 25, 2019, 10:10:11 PM
Well guys, pleased to tell, save for boring the front housings which should not be an issue I now have three successful machined cases ready for the rest of the project - it's all gone far better than the imagined pit falls at the outset :) That final op will come later when I start to fit the crankshaft and bearings.

Here's the last four pics of the final bits of machining -

First was to mill the four transfer passages using a cutter made previously for another engine.
(https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/9---AvPGaFEBU1DCvdEb9g4Lvyl3Edyk1bTWtj5v3HlJNnh_SI399vCVo-PpcpuJg8UPmA-v0O4qHdL8F6y_nQWopTwHsNkVIO1KRzKuXAamyKSxiP4HZSe-kHK_SHgECGwtM0VVr85IZ6Dz0Y6cbYdGjj6CaGxX3BnoicdeHQ3BD5-zbPmmVY1i-J74URf8ucXpunhHqsglI32pHhJYf-DzoI_BnaCZ1W_fJgUh_PaQB-tNpnJAlCg_A0f_-Mp6kjwR9QJ_hcy_E3i4RUc66Nb6vouj3b81GeT1j-trxOlNm0PiyhDJQUk0K8C0p_Sq0Zr_EKGaT39VplkWn-MFZmY6d11wPJVdt7D0VzUAjw2Tu8BPqU9ukQ4EdYPoKvc3wItF-BJYmUv0V0Dz-on9YXMfo_oRb2mzQA-4VJISuVQSiwyskPQwelsYxpNLaab4uZ46EeAYq59FiU_XzQ_VQFxYWuouW1_2tSn_Gjvte2QL8wNKxpKvesz0MMEMC4WPOjPjXogyH5zj6hXT3AlUT0YciUr_SW3sOU4mMgDZMMVnHYfgyftqcWWOrl1QkLAQPK_j0Z3bIoadaMRw90F5Dh9lmoxsZ7r_CIhoN5H4WRBNjySg55kG7AgwxHFkJKlaegCbQ2So6un0t30v1xWxhPAibse9ILkB=w1218-h913-no)

The ends of the lugs were milled at a 10 degree angle and then then the R/T swung at 5 degrees to to mill the webs to profile.
(https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/seyWX6L-W29xKWZeu57qAl5ZPOsqSW5MaVXxqd2As8YOcYgibLe9TpA5oZbIbTm2kmhrjYmqlCu3gLfmV4N3wa8FkRYjUwaaC1ht8Av2P829tgZND4sIgfnqfN75tEjai_1uQnn9FQu210GcxlldkN4QvBGtrmLGq0UHdcl5MdQ3bLmqlPmcAz0fYvy_sRW2MBQ2ayWB63QzTm5iT6ImvksYMs7R4chV_kPnY27PSn_cWTCe0LGl-lpF2UnQf4-8d7IYDp2s13WR6B9vXvb5WQlx2VKQyKJ56Ab3ir9JHZScrBZZ3m_bWF9gA_8-eyOOoJKa0UQLmeUK2plHT7VnpAlV0Nfv3uZfiACiF36j1sbGkWgRoaRD7V5SWin-dtilD189n0WN6WnCYjps0Y2wfx7eVL0ydNH3AaXFgRkM55v9DTedX9UR-knWyOoZUT3rUT9-TdQSElZRIhRH_8m2b9-ngJcv7ZlxShXSpmqtpjmb4fp4ELIeU_It3Lnbb6A_2GoHggv8i_3vqwX22r0Bv07MvByMHsKD6Tw3rWsCJhW2WSEWry55cR7JbRH0rqS2czlkHR1cPuJu3mvI7amXwXONXNxHC63ZZfjANxXsTZtmskwu2UQIMqkQ106ocr-FXTPrGh3hooBpMwZ2wRqy3cdHKMpRCGJk=w1218-h913-no)

With all ops completed it was just a matter of a final fettle on any high spots and then giving the whole thing a going over with a grinding point to accentuate the texture. As referred to previously - if the point is regularly dipped in paraffin this prevents the point loading up. It's run at low speed and allowed to 'judder' over the surface as opposed to removing any material. It perhaps looks far worse than it appears - it's hard to feel the surface distress by finger pressure.
(https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/ZEpsEvvLyD2LNoj7mqHdmxVJ1KVfaecBfT8QyoM5_tJ3Ygplwtq3rYtsCAvxGxyVs2EfpjUt9VHpWBvFqvNKsYBgCG7nh9KQEpCNt--31PPk4vpyWfqz2NGk0geTGbePQg5o8YXi48mEJhazLyKU6qKP4PxNqPl_w8ZE_sQSu9NK_xxuPslfFSCsQXHUIbI6qMNx2xq2Gk-FeTkpJxDD56Gz1-pL4KT8k4e3G0IU-BIHnAJGtAQDrnEmajmaZ54HXbkgRhT5BlrSsMksui_QHoQu2t-8l8Wkzed5Lh3hWCpMBXPXfa8RrfB5779Rz7GZXR-XjC0zfRhzVsGwPDpBojwda-qad3hcsmXR9tbXEJAteu_1L-EeYQEeYaBdfWFZwvYqfkw3qzzavIKG12E-H5pFW7MCECEV0ajBJhCgEVYRTdrh4GJb59Mv5p9lDNLvLSAIKrpYTY9LpiTDom2KMyHH6Op3TQUqwkfsf76yRFDK6LzZQ-2o2q2jQSaUjV80e3sihi_ejq6CC_tEhsRrorVJk6fAqw4Bcms7BeXDyAfuBD7TL9rWf3cegFDiIWyZGuBN-Y3tex5Gwa-F9wyq9oEIZhzlwBmzuJp5Ry2yV0cKAx1kcdfHW1qZ3Z1rVrbtt9pJK75EbpOcQrCm-RvrxBRHseED1KMS=w1218-h913-no)

And finally, after a good bead blast, the effect I was hoping for.  The front housing has had a skim to clean up but will be reduced to final diameter when the housing itself is bored.
(https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/HaHT5R3jiiMlUIgWOuW0L9dmU5aatT3LxSWPlEOwrzh3SmCh3YxcMSNLU3Q0gKVrEBnnWsqq9k5_y0YVxGKaLXYhdVaOREJCrEE3cpdxWhRTyrQ6zchRmF3_eHV98LyAWErpBbRb3LKonF3hBQvJ3sgUtcWRcxg4AF-iVz0yXRmgzAsy93bZzTMHlrL82Mp3w0D5vBy9hpLKiW01ME1kuJPFb1qW80BH6yt-04oEHN6pLqO22MuMfzaluqUz63WqZJWfvkABYuxi091RZRR_HhzYn_93eV7bdntIDM-A0Ko4PEV03lYx83MU1DeFM9YGA-mMzBQhxn3bWhErSrshqtLI9uL6l8ZYPz9IHAZL_yX5iaLROga2plLMgaEiLL7mqO4aCx7S9q91uAnn_qBbJo1J_Mmk313z40LjKGr7qXBE3Swqv4nO2P0L-FvCIsgUCPHLGlj2vWcPy-jX9JldENMPMfN4dAXxEntLazAr3zKFhTG7uRwlnf_rN5Ly-rpxeQW01VCNI0BPGp3sdAgasXFOwB10-Kg8R4HXE6_IbIvR41ONeyCOzBfGhO5YgL-oCIDhqBCcsbeO2CW0bIXuxBfXskgOBRGfT8n1h_Q-8DAzpcK8_0kXUJfR7uUrrGdNX69ZcDdZ_yZYJRoIOr2NmAiuQ2JQq9UL=w1218-h913-no)

I have to say that despite previous successful outcomes on machining crankcases from solid I really did not have total confidence that this would be the same - as you can imagine I'm well chuffed with the outcome and it all bodes well for the rest of the project.

If you've been following through from the start - I hope you haven't suffered overload on 'case' images - it'll definitely be something different next time

Thanks for looking in - I shall sleep happy tonight  ;)

Regards - Ol Tug
Title: Re: The Oliver Tiger Mk III - a 5cc Version
Post by: David.F on February 25, 2019, 10:10:40 PM
Hello Tug et al, I came across this thread quite by chance today and have enjoyed reading about this project.  You put my engineering skills to shame, but I'm learning all the time.  I started building a Sugden Special at school almost 50 years ago, but gave up long before it was completed.  Then a while back I acquired a Myford Super 7 and have been learning since then, making bits and bobs for my models.  I gradually progressed to making bits for model engines and eventually built two Sugdens that ran well.  Please keep up the good work with your 5cc Oliver project - and keep the words and pictures coming!  Regards, David
Title: Re: The Oliver Tiger Mk III - a 5cc Version
Post by: Ramon on February 25, 2019, 10:23:26 PM
Hello David - welcome to the forum :hi: You'll find 'all sorts of good things' on here if you have an interest in building engines not just 'diesels' either.

I remember as a lad thinking what it would be like to actually make a 'Sugden'  :o Unlike yourself it would be many years before I actually had a go at making an engine but had had a lifetime of commercial diesel and glows in various guises before a good friend cajoled me into it a few years back.

How about making an introductory post - I 'm sure you will enjoy your stay  :)

Regards - Tug
Title: Re: The Oliver Tiger Mk III - a 5cc Version
Post by: Kim on February 25, 2019, 10:33:55 PM
Tug, those look simply amazing!  You are a real artist.
Kim
Title: Re: The Oliver Tiger Mk III - a 5cc Version
Post by: MJM460 on February 25, 2019, 10:44:52 PM
Hi Ramon, still following every step, amazing work and outstanding results as usual.

Looking forward to the next steps, no overload here.

MJM460

Title: Re: The Oliver Tiger Mk III - a 5cc Version
Post by: Jasonb on February 26, 2019, 07:09:37 AM
Another great carving Job, rest should be plain sailing now.

Do you have something under the lugs in the last photo, mask to keep the surface unblasted?
Title: Re: The Oliver Tiger Mk III - a 5cc Version
Post by: sco on February 26, 2019, 07:41:02 AM
Tug,

Wow - that finish you have achieved is amazingly uniform!  Thanks for the picture of the burrs that you posted a few days ago that I missed - will look to add some of those to the fettling armory.

Simon.
Title: Re: The Oliver Tiger Mk III - a 5cc Version
Post by: Jo on February 26, 2019, 08:12:37 AM
They almost look like real castings Tug   :pinkelephant:

Jo
Title: Re: The Oliver Tiger Mk III - a 5cc Version
Post by: Ramon on February 26, 2019, 01:54:20 PM
Ha Jo, I knew they wouldn't fool such an old casting aficionado as yourself - oh well must try harder I suppose  ;D
Compliment taken as meant Jo  ;) - thanks :ThumbsUp:

Thanks for your kind comments too guys - I'll get all the ali parts done plus I have a few small ali parts left to do for the JLE engine before starting on the rest of the components. Yes the lower faces of the lugs are still masked Jason - three layers of tape.

Roughing out the backplates and cylinders today - but the next few days have several (pleasant) distractions in them.

Back before too long though - Tug

PS The rest of the build ops will follow much the same as before on the previous builds - do you want further step by step coverage or are you happy to just see the result pics. No point in repeating it all if it isn't warranted - or wanted.
Title: Re: The Oliver Tiger Mk III - a 5cc Version
Post by: Jo on February 26, 2019, 02:44:23 PM
PS The rest of the build ops will follow much the same as before on the previous builds - do you want further step by step coverage or are you happy to just see the result pics. No point in repeating it all if it isn't warranted - or wanted.

Of course we want to see all of it: Every time there is an opportunity to learn something new   :)

Jo
Title: Re: The Oliver Tiger Mk III - a 5cc Version
Post by: JC54 on February 26, 2019, 08:44:17 PM
 :praise2: :NotWorthy: Please show every step, it really helps us learners/amateurs. :old: :DrinkPint: JC
Title: Re: The Oliver Tiger Mk III - a 5cc Version
Post by: Admiral_dk on February 26, 2019, 09:35:07 PM
I have followed all your previous builds here and enjoyed them all - and do admittedly have an extra affection for aero, motorcycle and racing engines - and still loves all the "gory details"  ;)

And even if I do understand how you get the surface finish .... but none the less  :praise2: fantastic result.
Title: Re: The Oliver Tiger Mk III - a 5cc Version
Post by: Art K on February 27, 2019, 12:03:49 AM
Tug,
Those crankcases look great. The sandblasting really is a great effect.
Art
Title: Re: The Oliver Tiger Mk III - a 5cc Version
Post by: Tennessee Whiskey on February 27, 2019, 03:49:09 AM
Tug, when I get the time, I’ll add all the words and phrases to compliment your God given talents in the metal carving department, but for now, all I can say is that is some awesome shi#te ;).  Still working on the accent  :lolb:. Talk soon,

Whiskey
Title: Re: The Oliver Tiger Mk III - a 5cc Version
Post by: Ramon on February 27, 2019, 07:59:58 AM
Morning guys - well I guess all three of you isn't exactly a majority vote but as you insist Jo , how can I possibly refuse  :D

I'll carry on 'as is' then guys  ::)

That said, there's nothing much to show and today we're off for the annual lunch with the model yachties. Be back a bit later then.

Thanks for looking in Whiskey - are you back home yet?  Yep, still working on the accent too but still can't nail that one  :ROFL:

Thanks for looking in guys - always good to hear from you :)

Regards - Ol Tug
Title: Re: The Oliver Tiger Mk III - a 5cc Version
Post by: steamer on February 27, 2019, 08:04:10 AM
Following along Tug.   
Title: Re: The Oliver Tiger Mk III - a 5cc Version
Post by: MJM460 on February 27, 2019, 08:42:40 AM
I am another vote for continuing to show the steps.  I learn something from each one. 

But I do hope that making three at one time will allow you more machining time compared with the considerable time it must take to prepare your posts.  Your effort in documenting the build and techniques you use is very much appreciated.

MJM460

Title: Re: The Oliver Tiger Mk III - a 5cc Version
Post by: Allen Smithee on February 27, 2019, 01:07:33 PM
I am another vote for continuing to show the steps.  I learn something from each one. 

#me2

AS
Title: Re: The Oliver Tiger Mk III - a 5cc Version
Post by: Neil-Lickfold on February 27, 2019, 09:14:17 PM
It is good to see a nicely documented build of making engines. Well done Tug.
Title: Re: The Oliver Tiger Mk III - a 5cc Version
Post by: b.lindsey on February 28, 2019, 02:16:18 AM
Count me in as well Tug. Keep the posts coming...please.

Bill
Title: Re: The Oliver Tiger Mk III - a 5cc Version
Post by: David.F on February 28, 2019, 09:35:17 PM
Sorry, haven't dipped in for a couple of days - please keep posting!

David (with bated breath)
Title: Re: The Oliver Tiger Mk III - a 5cc Version
Post by: Ramon on March 05, 2019, 10:24:04 PM
Hello Guys,

Not been able to get much done this week due to one or two distractions at home plus the first 'plastic model' show of the year (for me)

Ha - I got a 'first' at the East of England show on Sunday. They awarded my 1/48 scale model of an Su-27 'Flanker' best in class - only trouble was it was the 1/32 scale class  :o - it's a big subject as aircraft go and they thought it was 1/32 ::) - at least it was a red face on the judges part and not mine  ;D

Thanks for your kind comments re further posting so, as you seem keen for more  :o - without further ado then.........

After screw cutting the back-plates to a successful fit in each case I finally got to grips with the cylinder heads. Did the bores first and as the second ops would be on a mandrel these were done to another quickly turned plug gauge for consistency. They were drilled through and tapped at this stage too to give access to the mandrel screw
(https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/AXFShZ3iFJrE36RuR6FIN_NLAUp97BsOuNj7umlhXPytNrA1vVp-T8V7Vdw2ygdMJsYzr5XuAS2LJNKHuzLiG3FEHL1wnI4IPwyboD0oR8g_TOAIj7QnvE4WozYheblH_ggtuEE_0Ib_AYGVUbAYC-grRsktGMMOkCYTU3-bdLW7GbRoAyewnUGwIoYjTh_EqAqQCwT2zPWgyPdvIxfvTUimeJW2ahrTDysp4Ex0vGmEJCWGR1JJkQnd5hbzKERWHLsdWotDyjGTlikfnsiGYKYUptAiacPqmEc3U3CcTMeaLcBdrTrNlE95mf9W2FO_pGBJZijLQub-v9XVTY_UExjHGwST9tCp5wjx7BgIMvrKZCaq1JUcPi3vtLQwKjjdSleQVAjwuDPvC2M-37J7eKIPsqjNoIfapMLHu7O6v6ogc2N2npUSq2ZrqcrjJL_NKOWirod5IR5Sh274qPRmXW1zwvgfYFCqgQCDuAMERWp6LdI1rVTR7Q1El4t1hQ2ioh2MVULIx0kvCuoPR7Qnkq3p8gOripmpCicik0e1X9BT6qpmZh_eyD0d_QknLhCOudhIg9AMew_sXk9w0DYO0SqvqDBSYUbokxTXRNfR9wIYLR_LUxNqpgSSvhDlKu4tsgMuhRQtJVN_D0EhIpOlBrONe5s98eG9=w1218-h913-no)

The issue of whether to drill the bolt holes before or after machining the fins was settled some time back. I prefer to drill the holes first as though this does give interrupted cuts as the holes are passed by the tool the burrs are thrown into the holes rather than into the fin gaps. De-burring is then a simple matter of running the drill back through to clear the burrs. The holes are drilled through in two stages to limit run out and simply counterbored using an FC3 cutter
(https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/Z1g9_zYGO84uVxIiRHsJYM-xTjB34nHct5G7wnrQTPuiPmQNjsNPP0v4y4wxaS3Jeu47DurNB7HwSH3y-KHAsjLaF_9DuJl0TRJ6Wbm_sbk_UC2-N3fZfP58bYMC80RC-_b0ixPflzROMA7Kbk6QGo3SaojBg2ZMvhdaK6lXuW4VywGHRQnrBrXpbLcs_5vra7701o1VI8ip7nX8fVrlp1k5ZKsWApWvWZrd-2XxzTTRHVvR0j4sDDJ7fCoDs8v-5lkP6_FfQH-7Y3a7mgEDYILF3nnXHvNWzs4IXuaWHYkNmYGdwgvLdkiBKetf0BYlS14n9nWQINrWz6OrQdiRgZ6dTAsYhX1pkVfbijQcTArHhbqwBxIw-GEeZFSbb42NTgL2NHO-yKWss7bL2D6i9oC3FRt-dDxwutm5uvC3EbItIeUjWnUr4W5_fek3zqF9KQ-psxJ1RmZ45gU4TzKMnyjdGUJLhE96PPUtnCpMBjWBpPV8I559rj1QGTka3Tg6BSdkbc3uW7NzHo77RN7GATmDieEoj1O4_A05Pwy86xJqdJy0Kf3VQZDlezDyLU9uZTW2tLTpjzkAZRAZL6c6aVYCroCME4uxQt-irH509q6mHZPjv1gOFbws0LG3ngp5J8n-2bLoJrUxS_GwDKlDh4LZN8mHPfeC=w1218-h913-no)

The tool for cutting the fins was just a piece of HSS ground on the off hand grinder to give the required 1.4mm gap. It cut the 6mm deep slots along with the interrupted cuts where it passed the holes without any pick up issues mainly due, I'm sure to using lots of paraffin lube.
(https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/PDkKHgoHdYzoKdWM8WyiXym5fUmVh6yeSLW-VBPYF-KYdRxs9A4p7hh1F9vhHQhIniO7BnmdUAFjJw27iWo0VvkXjvmcHdmVrf3DwpOHHRP71Z6oU5l8RqpFi3Vqx0YL-Pm341JfdccB9vRVyRginKVRTkScqxb6yCWDATm1psyVq9Mh1c7P3jdhj65OpWJBdkxnDFvPBy_ZOVa-UBgW2Fzh56W6RoNoK7YivBJ1LksZ4VN-mvnRQBu9vVu3Q1rIW4002sJOM1_gHLEsj-HySkp0KKGynxMIsyIRyvh37g16W7toi9JEYtyUcqfSVp5efH4WdIkaAu8rKWzYq9Yx9bxd0w9wUPBAaAJ1Rafnm2H0HuH12F8jUa7fvDn5Dq9-iHOwtAj-REu_4Ta8YMRz8t-98yP9P5BD3vuBqUZmnjoz4StzzmhOBsA55uIuQOc4gF0nZdDd36Pd2nHiULRQVCUjXckPw6vu-wZBUJHV5GkVrv4ALDD8m42Zc8AD4eJPI_zYvahKlu321N-GC8DqScmxXqvgB6PJHtpiPXiLghg9yvuwUJ_zCWlTjS65nDT9mEcPPRk2rKUDAMhxz8tlB2GizMpXcPZMq1EaHejNYpwWxZLtOgk_Rzm3h1E7q0GULSgO5XQAuuqsJAGq5_J5-mx9mYj9qChF=w1218-h913-no)

The tops were shaped by a series of flats formed by shaving on the side of this 'favourite tool' - I think I've said before but when it comes to grinding tools I'm the most idle of machinists and will just keep tweaking the ends of previously ground tools until little is left save the very tip (which is fundamentally the only part that does the work anyway) This is one that seems to survive that process and retains it's shape for the long term for some reason
(https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/XM8pYZCdkZvK3Ig4vrEINnKZjMaJIgmUKoJ_PcLRWfB_v4XXGdvt1u-bcRA-YwWIMqedD932ndoH6j4emwGFH_xfP00FloGoZp2v9ZOBf4he79Nwx3XoC-E7YLfg0XrsT3Khk5bGysAfq7zSzlQy9bz_INV-sM1yBCgMN_yyuoIVh49VICDOF1RVCakW58kRaCqmtS-fdhBzm7dywZ7ql9y7FpKsL8AywvCgAFZLkGfBGMMFtolA6pg8nFaDk97BJ22zOrgpBi306uir1oWZYlGLUrnGD2_ieaFlc_TeCygw9jcLWB2dhGdcJOeYSB1hYWpaF8TuONUS39yPjZJ0EntP5DrubCbhI1XAE_Wd4VDWfpSw5q9CWv3l5w0uw18M2S7HyCMv3hUHzRYmZMpzsdZJFqXMwJEDjmpaA3QiHANpHRPRSewNSi_aMHkPGUfw3ub6XmBoQKsjju6BxCg0yqsd-jGBU__X-EfyGa2dvHUYiGW18tRLUSJ_mWjJYtgTcdAwjqVyShFzKMYZVTo44_Ol34yfIGyJRSRg56mLv53Q_TQSEn0GSeeqHbcmRFwYgxv_KT5hiAtAM4Hir641uJCey_tMSpjgaHq-dFV6Zs_ihLnjYDM7pBCaZu2j9Nv9uA0qyt-fXVM0sDa34PNdRutoI4Q3d1R1=w1218-h913-no)

The tops were then finished by gentle filing followed by emery, then wet and dry and finally a smoothing with a GarryFlex block and a polish with fine ScotchBrite
(https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/Xs8_h2IVmAraN9WHRq-sZazqo7n5l68vs5Ad7Bu04Pp406S-vDOe9tDGQZMov7Mq2pJFGixsTEU5FnsxeTEuG9GuoZeHA58nyFATPwXRaur9iu8Uq0jbCzCVU1-xv5HS_FMBgFdv2AK7K5IiitV7Az03BVcDjLQXEjNukrA49eJa9IC7YjuXVuaYR4s82Wmf4IAOeKTw0aG_UR5YrOm1J3hceDlRFbHnc2oYQbb_RRUovDCKytmJNN0c--lPDXI3ThEunT5k7U9fE4PDd4hNmz7zJ89agJLzP3bWxSj4HbudnNQwZRlfCMwMEydxGoWfReKvhR1m0R0J2ew_WmZk8V1hhe7hE3__DlDUG08Ow3PkhKO5P5tZ3Hsc_SB9rKkdoNhPOaKpx_Vky7yfsCnm5wZnWDD__iGJ9s4zHCGis8euHrRU31fO11qrxnFynNtPkJzIEUVSYD6eWilcLyweNwXO98jVOaZzFX_-_-bdx6Aco8iKtyQLDnNrkmG00-C-GJbdLNMbqz8PBTZNsm21t1L0gqI11zYjvYUUizMNi8ir9aBFL9EYtIWAG0lxFjoUfmpAGTyCe2-BrOXBSGKgsMAYaag81f8RGADD_jwag5i7lYpR80MDCVYo7gr5sR0WrfiTSdFRwHgH68PltONVSPzRIfDfS0hB=w1218-h913-no)

Finished ready to fit
(https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/Uo-zyzK5Gf8SDOIqyxW5DbqTjfqipPGImdKYBxt3DmXiPl3u2Bu6m8bdMb27y78-FlW7lMHzTApqSP9dKeri_w4BWpkNfSYEnqxW-sT1_yzDA_x0kaGem4bVBdHLewY5-4Ii1s9Dd17UEInR7UCw9nu9JMRvCQYxrE-UwB4dXnQQII4V_bWtOkkzcOtY0D8gcPFZo7AOQDU18-HIq-OkeXuD4PTWkjwXPzWChzXdeDSyQ0pZWpOpEBZC0MPXVI4Kqts1-xahIhpRnKKzxGGJJMcWiA02UNUFgLPeE_GCb50D-SuBlN3sfrA6lDlUL_4aC5otq65TDqo38ATPVCGSfcvVig5z6bh0ovIvochhM3OM_XfQKN7fJd-BD0wWicPF6AZU9OHsRi5tf2kby0yfq7Xp9MxbVCijfxK0Tt7vfCc9HThh048sN-9xGIBsiPQku6OqCbOjot7Nh6GIP764w67ED3b1FG1vDXMLWov13oCbZl1MoMSaO7zqOxrhbmhPWknueg8tDvs0_eidWvMX-s8oXUpJxegozdUuuFarNdSBEirydiYr8F2co4e89RRf-KwKEl6lyOtucUEvCgtcKiuH_y0Q4JFODW6p1Q9d2Z_rHC6gSUH4pWMs4i8TICJF-DGGtoT8QBURJGQwDWLU9_6_Bb4wKCjs=w1218-h913-no)

That's state of play as of tonight, a start has been made on the Prop drivers and the Prop nuts are next - the last of the 6082 ali so it won't be long before the internals are tackled  :)

Regards for now - Tug
Title: Re: The Oliver Tiger Mk III - a 5cc Version
Post by: Neil-Lickfold on March 06, 2019, 04:43:24 AM
I see you have indexing holes on the back of the chuck mount.
Can you send a picture of the setup with the spindle on the cross slide and showing the mechanism that the indexing chuck works with please.
Great stuff to see for sure.
Just cant beat mandrels etc for holding stuff, especially when you are making more than 1.
Neil
Title: Re: The Oliver Tiger Mk III - a 5cc Version
Post by: Ramon on March 06, 2019, 01:44:21 PM
Hi Neil,

I have, at some time in the past, posted pics of the dividing set up. I've no idea in which thread but still have the images on file. At the risk of being accused of repeating myself I guess it's worth a second look for those who may not have seen it so will do something for you later. Currently finishing off those last ali bits.

Thanks for that last email - been a bit preoccupied of late but will respond

Regards - Tug
Title: Re: The Oliver Tiger Mk III - a 5cc Version
Post by: Ramon on March 07, 2019, 08:01:54 PM
Hi Guys,

Today saw the last of the ali parts save the con-rods  :)

 First though - Neil, here are a few pics of my dividing set up.

I use the bull wheel for 60 divs and an simple indent plate to lock. The top of the lathe casting was milled off to give a flat area at the correct height.
(https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/xhtufkK1q0-Ea3aQ9_1UnvyDM4lrVsdm4ze3b8CQJrUe1ZJlAqHC1RVpPo3m_tXRr2yz48bOwywBk861FxBW5sRiUPSRr1i1DcFuPdRAYYTjf-Cr0YOuleZmwWLxBLHtaIrJHro16Kcpe6f8CTRr2IgH8Xy78BNi1XZ1tQ8qrOc47KdNP0zIas1Su_HmWzVdVo_VLf9NEhkoIvujIwtzVqnVpF2vC1s5NuCOZI1j0Vf3LI07GyIdPToBf3Fi9JX2i66mfJOyJm-YkcWhFs92WNMpZGp7HI5dxZo4vk2eLPrMiI_0RZhTjtmGK5smjyjlhr9eKTkQtBgSXd4aux6IbysKL5Q0Jjp7Mh5i3XAhTuZxtL9oUdQBLgKIoodRqIeHZVl52ND-jqldCVFjTU2mlTVDEApYmMHFsg7WJ8P3BOZJvgO5_o-AoUOejRM1Mdi3hjsuF8GPSll5YFvKbudoAahktCbjtKTjCZODRz9nxJMZQltc3BYOhHJA4OnU8sTeOZZIgEjzLqS7LhGCzQnmQg0Z5RUR3W6OFAtmZKOYc490hdjRmvD0xRJz7hq4oUCs9bqQxmAdlrq3ZILCshN7mYp2UfHrpO-_j4_03CfsdobZP64xZkYE8V43EG2z4McVkRyfzxm0J712wznkGJzYaEIlOt6ESsQ=w1218-h913-no)

The plate is removed and replaced with another detent that locates in the holes in the chuck - these give 48 and 50 divs respectively
(https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/d1rVfij2uCKH1B6aXOkBgnOiroe2Mu0z0JbGwGJRIyBxMzYZ9w382CBOWNF1dHEAlfA8k-OybVc3mzuAiktp1pP3thrKoPBszXQrUPaxmENnw85blXhjdTMuT99LB6lK0LgZwgbhjF9WPcw-saynwJCxKxMH9wczBc_YpN0fxZzwVQwvg0Q28eJRInjWI25ukFq_VvIgKwC-7VaQXD78TKCcSbqQh1V4otGdGuwZWdz3kdUwf1zgGGKTzTS-9D5Lv5Sc7KRkj1xqchYjRMesQ97p6moSO526fxNnfZc37jyuiNaMApRiTI_Tgwy_QnFfxibTq0IxYKl9qZ5YDbz5WXhMBEQ6ZkO8cs5KezBd7T-A8OHuMg7ZsMMPEtoMfXIN3rEh7nrUqRsYD-llooVpvVG2xk2O398ASA8jN8t3gzbg5ZTxVWumihb1F9JwqWdugsUhjWwxIfN08NphEp5fmKqfD-z3s_hXVdfzCWiLgUmjJ_BRGve9MF_UJj4uskAk003hi_un5KVCVOnQvk7aEnveYbywjDBzTJWxHOsX2EFMa_vSuVl8-v4yyvBCBWmzMGDKF9ySDkMIOtynXbgzE5DY2hJFY2SrPEwm4uziQ_K6QCBY-rb3M0tZNrnwc9CWQPUMz1jk7e6Fz3RiGaoxL24CxfbtuCY=w1218-h913-no)


The cross slide milling spindle attachment is home made. It has a quill which is useful at times and can be set at an angle to drill/mill for instance the transfer passages in a liner
(https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/tfKmE7jgc0NEGI8kFuSo_zkNOLLQ4osfLV14bbVdeqEIVuhFmiyBMB6OnNYFphbOu05VzMT7gNE76jJpXHVXlrzZjdEWuu6pm_l6gEwZlFT8URPKFpxlDpRsgMnV_8-7c_ZfU53vTgT3cQ_webnwNy-_Zb0GUgnFF6vDKl5BzTLQTW8HRJWBi4J_pNbzdg41KvlFF8wOG8ZdAfaK8O-u15rb9w-8EWo_LfZYMb4ZzOTkWGH6--UFkLnH8vVzRpr2JlIofNr-DrNVqHN02MKPXUrZSUjWZ9OlPRUPrIgMrHxxVE-s4CP-oj8UNc5cn0529qOTgQcPYUlGMKoi6rpMC7kHcNi7aUBx3DjHjSKmcxMpaxc9jI3Epy9gjhh8rdvImtOnXdHS9HGnKJQx3CLBWBUl7ax-K3R8bErH-stn-ie3ZkVNxdnatc83_JBt2goSzCSRaph-4LpsrNAO_nbtHUS2UBA_ClkLhB3m16xDAGts_nSdLb6JXDbXk7zbsiHxfbRIvQD4pCO8I40maCxCGoNs17NxrKY9IGCAcJgUW8L8-lESGjUvLyjUqVBPCncSF1AG8mmRqXVMhqFOA9mcE2sI9HxW2U9OogL6c9xST8jeORr33mGck1SWFCdKRRRTfwbXjwe7tMTpCyDlmInfd1Ts_3Wk_xQ=w1218-h913-no)

Hope that's of use to you and maybe any others who haven't seen it before. Apologies to those who have ::)



The prop drivers have a very deep curve to the outer profile but proved easier to machine than first thought. Three blanks were bored and tapered bored to dimension. Without changing the top slide setting, a tapered mandrel was turned to hold them for the remaining ops. To do this a boring tool was used and the lathe run in reverse
(https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/jvkIUGA_eAA9MW5OvVkkb8cWpstLVIVlKmca-QUA6WZAmK70l_Qhqapu3TW7kehVTv7OqndC7i6lJac_CxzQAo4D06_HzDlwyYzitYADgBHInMF6-2g1oocHsavxY1XUaNfS-sKP4Y7594sHR2WKVZE61QE_AWyYKm1W1QHnzk_3flGFx6vnJ7lP7B4LdEPfHB56EtcM4kUGWQ4LzLUrRSKvVn2o1Wd1EjFYoU85TeyAfKNRQ_9azNkaXSdXceOdIla0Ih5I9RgvFX5mryfZNeeT0yUi8wSTPpXW4AWw0BCes2rrrQeyVZVDdBF-aR9wHsVrBF7YyJes5qawqSaUM6UHI56Bzteh6AiR0OR4RUQJ5E1brDW9eP5bZ_l-arsKv-lrbKA7FWAVAHXviBNbJXonTq8ggvJAY-5n78SINgp08bRqnCs8aus3d1HhLeMrGxSw9weR7dN41PvYV4ixG2REU-Pjp91MCxlIYVozU8HEsKgFiAtd6_P3mDpDb1QNvz9QepfnTdt2yKeFo1rwRqfE6JStfjbYPqVPP7xPc4x2CEZY29zfHc-o0YbiCsoKhf8fBIs_UJhIbndOcCCI5WLLkkRz5jQhKp08UX-BQB26VApPHIR9asImrsdgjkKmJF8K_UwjoLzzKcEqcJdyi3MHjJVNBKk6=w1218-h913-no)

The blanks were held on the mandrel by a 4BA screw and a form tool used to form the profile. This was just ground free hand - nothing exact, radius wise - and cut well from start to finish.
(https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/TAUfkW4k-3eMMQbx4uDE996kl0qMbFhsn3FAEFN7KMY-9k0PsLYlsimV244dwu8kvBcJZ4wn6oDPP350cR55Ezlm68DwFnDbLFh51Mr1zpXnDOQzUcp2w66cC8PrDSrjum9HtEIhDRFJ0sJxUzxLEZcKPhf8MbxthBrFS8MDCbcYXw0xUhIU-CMdIv0_kMugMJQLlHnYLt2vxb0GgeVpD0XqBH-xjpWbiBxktNU9N1BqKb6HIZQUgpK1z5zUIZW0wQp5AZ-UkJfRQkFQCbN_vzvybxwcjLdcekbds8n_laZ_3_fZNc_B7At4gHhcAlq32FPGbZu1ZDgGveDIMLTtRZu0SUv7AiAalBuDlNtNC7ONpGVvsf7DwZhR5c2j1eTFF3YwN03ohPsVFz7A2bLKYogOnVZq_G3tx2Kg95rFuqIVTZGKd-VTwT2bbJObLXIlygFObfOUW9_Lb7qL1dl-GgyeXYaRDlZZqICQEi4iMP07ier0CG2u7pfB20JZd530sw9BAMM7Z-ojFyH9sCmGUuBgA7Ggw-QjyMm4Vlbol_WD6hOj-UVvY4fCofWE0YrnS3SGty0cZjb_6LGoHezSw3dbqEHpXq0ZFi2kiWOgiPAlDwBNaHwLpRB1GOxVrbQKxO1SDYwVj_cHLR4VK5_2jr8KP3UGvqMn=w1218-h913-no)


(https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/Vrg3IcaoNijNdLqBY2ogbxcel9L3NDCBFwgapOZgo9u4_1y6r5zom40vkjxy-aPe3oaXwaANPp_gdzxYUk0HXdf_bGDWg6sw2f_XsObKh-Z6HoKJphqT2OaagVUpb-XUBWHxhgB-0feT2YSb679AUT_LhDROjKrYIAVTIFDnziEQ7mtPLro2zVrnefEeUnTTcgU3GueqLHWOeLE07lDuCVpNQr-6lb_IDfUyEEIyAG4ajC5Ea9DtUi_qN9V1PE2fkihlbk06gLCfYuxsf5EsGr-6FuQ8v_k-61FxX7yYTKzgssRc6N85PkDbzD8gBrlRq43JPmB2eVLYQaBAkH2AF7-XHS48I-DpFlGsAFyFVFR2BEam9Squxs3KHt9lahjVQ87w9kj7nyRD7G27j7IZ9WaKDugfWSbOkuJC8grCdMbX-zPitzegel_jNVL2vpUawQp6nK_78YDgczT6B21-TsyBWvss_3kiA36j_YyXZGZ7r81TwKWWTbaY4iykj3GD8ueZlbhlf0DBoOga_5Rmkq3zvE1ky6f-ttH2t2KvEBv9wIXFHPmv_GGGubcxLVmc6h6E4ti1pMrVk9svPPXlTLaeYl0Jwgjgr4qiqNPlPDHWG_GmoglKTJmlYMDKP9kKVV_RpUVgtnFL5h1Gtk5i3BqBKnIc1s_g=w1218-h913-no)

The knurling was done in the usual fashion - lathe run in reverse (keeps the knurl against it's holder) and slowly moved in toward the centre (note the knurled washer on the over run ;)). Big problem for me is that I don't have flood coolant and this is one job that would really benefit from it. Its just a matter of taking things slowly and trying to keep the wheel clean with a small wire brush.
(https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/VQop61dGyfvtY2AjpkZWiQmommOJffUXOLK8Pnn-F8aIfB8JA2WN6853k0EqSydpql5-JcprPWVkW3WOScA8AgTU2FfxWYIyJc82PiZKh-6P_RLVsW_SJEWUP6L9iy0mM4UC3Lbiezcj1MECwasQgtcfO5YXwvrmwon6AQNT52jmdns0FRxj_P0z7elAMJgBNiY6w1iEU_lVfLskwvS4skc4lcB6bWO9GpQGMUqvnk_5F6HXOmGSQERleYXFnDA9VLiP6oTzktbFE2_zUsLdIuJcrCow_dWQzFSdywYsQzvutRnh2Lqame5lBhplxHr1RlhGZsaheQlUlrHS93VAoNpeHe3IaFYsysmrhW3f6FQVIuAlPQUn2saOXi3lO3H05vpHqXBXb9Mg2bnlu4MTeXjl0QP1p69ksk9KdRWa-BXIOx9qOI1fLUprQ5HgQ-3ToQ4v0t8pos-JNh0_VZr3C6YzZ1-DpxgcbyrjxU8X9GnnE6MpXDoo4AKG6mBUM2g9jwLGWYV-ZHhr-VoKYjjPB2bWcVvL8pQHgBEY2vFYoao1nMjsHQWWjayB9_WN8gag38Aim1RQARd7hm9fCjJdEVegVqKGTSxtm2eCFki1Ih70b1_ZBmsXvCDhEAngX_71EWpZPTfOw9uI1HWHt2NPvWCb1wDH4qNK=w1218-h913-no)

Finished ready for the brass collets. These will be made later but with the cross top slide still unmoved and turned in the same reverse way as the mandrel was.
(https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/CBKtemJu4zlbEZaHb1lGKPGq1HuPzc3rxKcveYGNlchdvb-DBrIfchGQDzbOVRKM6t6NwlyhpKkelmFfdyglRFGkGhpGTu1GSXSwnGBz7OyJq_REAblS984U_QXv3izWkOLlO4vvA9H4W9YCLbjlY0wpt_jt7kUWUff2LiG_sqx-6U_tzn3m_hJa1Lcmawx6FNAMW62Zqhi4I9i4jvetPJHL3DFdxwaZCsm8wdguAnNE1APBHig_HWqKY9_XaA4iV7juHz6FDOV8gVps7jspEyGTAAVerpwOvS7JWEftQ7SyLtY7fDitaPkjux8uzqFNNqPkAEkLrG73u3AMhnb3N0alLSORoKb3rhJiJcHsFrhQ9F2s6-P-qK1_iRgCeIwy7EQfDpXofC_WWcIqSsXYuXvTseWOTn8jMq9FqS_lr4oBFhu21skxCauj1Z-ba8qlhp60z7YSDeYWjt-qKmMh8aWj24utY6_VxuxDXyzLbUMFnY2eJ7_vR9buYHZ18BY03vkypOD0xg7SOLfGVXoRtjA6AmgDXxq4Vxec3-Pl-F24IX2xzDXz1iWht_ejeYk0rw81SJaDMlcoAr6xFp-2c_IjSzA7UYSsdRaDiPDiXyxx7Sgog1XGw5-IyqB3RDiTC1pnVgFXbxC9e_G7sdupD3VZdyKYW9iH=w1218-h913-no)

The venturi's were simple turning jobs as were the prop nuts so here's how the parts made so far all look now. The colour coded venturi's is to ensure that the cross hole matches the thread pull up. The back plates, made some time back, are in the safest place to prevent any minor damage to the threads - liberally coated with anti gall grease and temporarily nipped up home in their cases.
(https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/aTsn02fFN6qrQRsu7vR2i4cZSdV7ccFLjVZz4XXCcJkL2ruIBsgSjOGXyQkUS4UDdJtD_LLb8wr7JREJx913mVcn7teEOGomrESfKuX63lYkGVOz5Cg3nDhwPksPAsAHbqVrCrw2tfc1XZSvpMMSeo4DuVMD4UhGA6mMKdD07T9-kI5MoHZnb2IYya08CkW7Sx_ZNrjgkSTiy0fayLsRvoSiyIK6utYXPdewUjPylq-ZnWRujYZ5-Xj2EYKXcRPEJ0npqDT_Elyatrin2JYPY1jyNs74mE7xsnyObm6DBO4HJWJ0xmrjpa5uMCVh6zXrTo7jNenzOWIOGA9dwItkRz5ZTI11TX6C76QSfxXp3ZTQKRPU2wJc8x7Bg7O-Xhy8jLZup9YhLHSkcvFlPHvysn3HsBwkCjy26EcUxnFEneAYuLxCxG7xh__skOUwGmMk8qx0R7qOigc2v1fksDJ1UReG60WprY8kG7EDr7giHN5geQJgJ9xuziw9FfrymmSct-7fKvKSMcsiJKA06ULbXeqe3Oqyb4rZ-41nSM2KdY1KVc_pEKj2U1PdAO5hnKrP9FY-zsflpB5tV7wGsBCGROQ3N1s7UMThQWmco97KdAfhv-f7GBBn6lNf-SLxz24mOgWZ3cKkOlbNuTzFsjvE6-eq8_OU-jxW=w1218-h913-no)


Well you did say you wanted more - hope that is what you meant  :)

Before staring the internal parts I'm going to finish off the ali parts outstanding on another engine.

Back soon - Tug








Title: Re: The Oliver Tiger Mk III - a 5cc Version
Post by: Tennessee Whiskey on March 07, 2019, 08:06:39 PM
Absolutely,positively, unequivocally, beautiful  :praise2:  Ain’t much else to say, besides, the drool on the keyboard makes it somewhat difficult to type (Shite man  :lolb:)

Whiskey
Title: Re: The Oliver Tiger Mk III - a 5cc Version
Post by: sco on March 07, 2019, 08:54:39 PM
Brilliant work Tug and some ideas to file away for future reference!

Simon.
Title: Re: The Oliver Tiger Mk III - a 5cc Version
Post by: Admiral_dk on March 07, 2019, 10:20:37 PM
Truly enjoyable to watch and beautiful parts - I'm betting on yet tree more stunners when you are finished  :praise2:
Title: Re: The Oliver Tiger Mk III - a 5cc Version
Post by: 10KPete on March 07, 2019, 10:38:19 PM
Beautiful work! I've never attempted an aero engine. I've flown a few.....

I really like seeing how the parts are made and discussions on the fine points are very welcome here.

Pete
Title: Re: The Oliver Tiger Mk III - a 5cc Version
Post by: Jenki on March 08, 2019, 12:40:56 AM
Hi Tug. I am not a machinist, I just "play" on a very old lathe. But I do know enough to realise what you have done so far (and on your previous engine builds) is something very special.

Keep up the good work and keep the pictures coming!
Title: Re: The Oliver Tiger Mk III - a 5cc Version
Post by: Dave Otto on March 08, 2019, 01:14:49 AM
Beautiful family shot Tug!
Your work is always amazing.

Dave
Title: Re: The Oliver Tiger Mk III - a 5cc Version
Post by: Neil-Lickfold on March 08, 2019, 02:58:51 AM
Thanks for the photos of your setup. Great stuff.
Title: Re: The Oliver Tiger Mk III - a 5cc Version
Post by: Art K on March 08, 2019, 04:29:28 AM
Tug,
I think what Whiskey is trying to say is "Holy Toledo that is some mighty fine work" At least if I miss quote him that is what I'm saying
Art
Title: Re: The Oliver Tiger Mk III - a 5cc Version
Post by: Allen Smithee on March 08, 2019, 02:19:34 PM
Interesting, inspring and educational in equal abundance, as ever!

One question - I get the various reasons why you're running the lathe in reverse, but how do you stop the chuck climbing off the spindle when you do?

AS
Title: Re: The Oliver Tiger Mk III - a 5cc Version
Post by: Ramon on March 08, 2019, 04:24:45 PM
Hi Guys - thanks for looking in and your kind comments - particularly you 'Jenki' for taking the time to register just to do so - appreciated  :ThumbsUp:

Art - don't you fear none - I have that ol south'n boy weighed up    :ROFL: he ain't foolin me none  :lolb:

AS - I don't have any means to prevent it but do make sure that the chuck is nipped up tight beforehand. I often screw cut in reverse if working to a close shoulder ie working from the shoulder. Obviously with screw cutting, as with the method of doing the tapers, only light cuts are taken so no real strain is involved.

Though it doesn't mean it won't occur, to date I've not experienced the chuck loosening in any way so don't give it much thought but you are right in that it could happen.


Well after a month of ali swarf build up I just had to have a clear up ::). It's taken the best part of the day. Workshop's now nice and pristine ready for a restart back on the last of those JLE parts. Not much there to do but enough to put these on hold for a week or so. Plus, you may recall I said elsewhere about the building work going on down the bottom of the garden - well in just over a year thirty eight trees have gone and have been replaced with three bungalows. Despite having had such a lovely backdrop over the years the light this has let into the garden is really beneficial. Today though, the work on our boundary finally began so it's going to be an even bigger distraction when the weather is fine in coming days if not weeks.

I'll get back on these as soon as possible however but bear with it for a few days eh ;) in the meantime my thanks again for all your comments

Regards - Tug
Title: Re: The Oliver Tiger Mk III - a 5cc Version
Post by: Neil-Lickfold on March 08, 2019, 08:19:38 PM
With a vfd and a micro switch, allows the control to stop the lathe and carriage to less than 0.1mm at 200rpm or so depending on the pitch of the thread being cut. You can easily stop it in the range of the normal thread relief. On a fibe pitch thread it can be stopped within about 0.04 or less every time.
Title: Re: The Oliver Tiger Mk III - a 5cc Version
Post by: sco on March 08, 2019, 09:06:58 PM
With a vfd and a micro switch, allows the control to stop the lathe and carriage to less than 0.1mm at 200rpm or so depending on the pitch of the thread being cut. You can easily stop it in the range of the normal thread relief. On a fibe pitch thread it can be stopped within about 0.04 or less every time.

Is this using a 'dead stop' feature in the vfd or making allowance for a normal ramp down to zero?

Simon.
Title: Re: The Oliver Tiger Mk III - a 5cc Version
Post by: Neil-Lickfold on March 08, 2019, 11:40:20 PM
I use the ramp down feature.  Stops in 0.2 seconds. I have the ramp start and ramp stop set the same. The micro switch is on the foreward stop. So only reverse direction can be enabled on the motor start. I leave the 1/2 nut engaged until the thread is completed. I have the micro switch on an adjustable thing to get the stop length correct.
Title: Re: The Oliver Tiger Mk III - a 5cc Version
Post by: Ramon on March 09, 2019, 10:34:11 AM
Hi Neil, thanks for the info :ThumbsUp:

I do have vfd on the lathe but having done this method for so long and with very little likely to require it in the future I'll 'stick to what I know' - besides - me an electrics don't exactly go hand in hand ::)

Tug

Title: Re: The Oliver Tiger Mk III - a 5cc Version
Post by: strictlybusiness1 on March 09, 2019, 04:08:20 PM
Ramon,

I see that you are still doing beautiful work! Keep it up!!

Jim Allen
Title: Re: The Oliver Tiger Mk III - a 5cc Version
Post by: sco on March 09, 2019, 06:43:29 PM
I use the ramp down feature.  Stops in 0.2 seconds. I have the ramp start and ramp stop set the same. The micro switch is on the foreward stop. So only reverse direction can be enabled on the motor start. I leave the 1/2 nut engaged until the thread is completed. I have the micro switch on an adjustable thing to get the stop length correct.

0.2 of a second is pretty quick - would be worried about the chuck unscrewing! Think I'll carry on with the leadscrew dog clutch lever but thanks for the suggestion.

Simon.
Title: Re: The Oliver Tiger Mk III - a 5cc Version
Post by: Jo on March 09, 2019, 06:54:07 PM
I would be more concerned about the low cycle fatigue stresses generated in the shafts by such fast slow downs  :paranoia:

Jo
Title: Re: The Oliver Tiger Mk III - a 5cc Version
Post by: Ramon on March 09, 2019, 07:22:03 PM
Jim - it's good to see you looking in and for your endorsement.

What I do pales into insignificance in comparison to your sterling workmanship but it's real nice to know that someone like yourself can enjoy it - thanks indeed  :ThumbsUp:

Regards - Tug
Title: Re: The Oliver Tiger Mk III - a 5cc Version
Post by: Neil-Lickfold on March 10, 2019, 12:13:37 AM
0.1 seconds will unscrew the chuck. At0.2 seconds it never does
Unscrew. But it also takes actually longer than 0.2 seconds to stop.
Title: Re: The Oliver Tiger Mk III - a 5cc Version
Post by: Ramon on March 12, 2019, 04:26:43 PM
Ken (Croft) - further to your PM

Unfortunately I am not able to scan only copy. For your info though - and anyone else who may be interested to read it......

Having checked through my folders the article on CIS you refer to was not published in Model Airplane News as I thought but in the Strictly I/C magazine. I have copies on many of Georges writings from MAN but they mainly refer to glo engines and predominantly for C/L speed and aerobatic usage.

The near four page CIS article was featured in the February/March 1989 issue of SIC. I believe they are still available but if you have any problems PM your address  ;)

Tug
Title: Re: The Oliver Tiger Mk III - a 5cc Version
Post by: Ramon on April 23, 2019, 10:38:40 PM
Hello Guys,

I see that quite a few have looked in over the last few weeks no doubt to see if any further progress has been made. Well, I regret to say, unfortunately there's not ::) however it has not been forgotten :)

Just to say then that this project has not been abandoned in favour of another modelling distraction but, as previously mentioned, I have found myself with some major changes in the garden and this has been occupying virtually all my time. A whole new area has suddenly become a viable proposition from a growing point of view and work to make this happen has been ongoing since.

I won't pick these engines up again until I'm well on top of this unplanned distraction but though it is now likely to be awhile rest assured, they will very much be in the forefront of any return to the confines of 'tha ol shid'. My intention is still to have them ready for the Forncett ME Day in October   ;)

In the meantime, thanks for looking in and enjoy the summer :)


Regards - Tug
Title: Re: The Oliver Tiger Mk III - a 5cc Version
Post by: Tennessee Whiskey on April 23, 2019, 11:41:56 PM
From modeling to land baron  :lolb: :lolb:

Whiskey
Title: Re: The Oliver Tiger Mk III - a 5cc Version
Post by: Ramon on April 24, 2019, 07:52:39 AM
Ha - at around sixty feet by thirty I hardly think so Whiskey  :Lol: but it's been neglected and in deep shade for so long it's taking it's toll on the old bones  :old: Might be able to grow the odd lettuce or two when all's done though  ;)

Regards - Tug