Model Engine Maker

Engines => From Kits/Castings => Topic started by: Craig DeShong on December 18, 2018, 07:53:32 PM

Title: building the Frisco Standard Model
Post by: Craig DeShong on December 18, 2018, 07:53:32 PM
When you own a live steam, coal burning locomotive; even if youíve been a bad boy and Santa leaves you a lump of coal for being on his Ďnaughty listí, it isnít really a bad thing. :embarassed:  Possibly one should appear under the tree this year but I figure Santa probably gives some leeway to Seniors. :whoohoo:   

Still, in Santaís eyes, I must have been an exceptionally good boy this year because shortly before Christmas this casting set arrived from which I can build the Frisco Standard model engine.  Poor Santa and his reindeer; having him haul around castings in his sled, he SHOULD be leaving me coal, :'( certainly glad he didnít though. :ThumbsUp:

These castings and drawings build a 1/4 scale replica of the 16 HP Frisco Standard and are distributed by Shelf Pet Models out of Oregon.  When I first heard of the company I pondered in regard to the rather peculiar name.  Upon further reflection though it seems to fit my situation fairly well; I suspect it fits others also.  They are on a shelf, and they ďsort ofĒ are my pets, and they are models soÖ..
(https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/zj5VnUWTkZBvRWgm1bwix69o3W3WjRYmjdKeeLeZxN97j95SIIGynijESi9qhUtloO_6l5j-5qI-toPrVFebvha1SXf5zCNWqyMaSRdG4nMsHEVkxvRVYSjzwGCDFVlBKyyVgythXg=w2400)

The casting set builds an exquisite twin vertical cylinder, open crankcase engine with dual side shafts and dual igniters; a photo of someone else's efforts I show you here:
(https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/6PT55XdqUn0aJXuzksSgx649H5Fox8D-yCzycqf2TW8cnR3yNruMcKY55ttrLCV1D7GjY0ywOjxjuWw0FliIPrqs_nwhzrn3KdihdKjU7kUUjEmi4VJLWrKfw8V6AzXurfd_CdFRyg=w2400)

I called Bob Banke of Shelf Pet Models about two weeks ago, asking if he had the model available.  He answered on the second ring and indicated that he had several ready to go and a PayPal payment or a money order in the mail would get one headed my way.  I sent prompt payment and the model arrived yesterday.  USPS had dropped the 30 LB. box about every way possible, but upon inspection, all the castings arrived unharmed. 

With the ďkitĒ you get the castings, some cast iron material for making pistons and cylinder liners, 41 pages of CAD produced drawings and a resource page suggesting where you can get plumbing fittings, oilers, etc.
The following few photos show the ďgoodiesĒ included in the ďkitĒ.

Jo, you can see that Sirus is really on the ball as he had his ďhenchmenĒ ready to pounce on the castings as soon as I vacated the room in which I placed them last night.   Theyíve already attempted to claim ďfondlingĒ rights, but they have been informed that they can have only ďsecond dibsĒ.

In this photo I show the cylinder block and base; also the piston and cylinder material.
(https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/g_U5lo7EFsdzJEHu1HfLFJHiI5LhoL1GbxS7swM_VYpTnZCLLKZ00cBt2fgWr3GUMj5OVDv63rHE_Do9MKj87pF1JtpnZ-lRZEszuQ3a5jR8UQh1vG56I7DOu_uG9FIneSVWRrrCpw=w2400)

This photo shows the cylinder heads, valve covers, intake and exhaust manifolds, gears (plastic bag), name plate, and a few other brass castings I have as yet to sort out.
(https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/PRw1i0hZVbHoqmx8y777LB3U00cIpXt-PQSX91_t8zA2eeI3lzyfVC7n6iPF9___1fY7Qs_tPp9oQf_W-6Y7Qt_CoClk58KH8fBwyJ2baTZoC6qfosi4DbMRxuxS1zBmLt8VovpeQw=w2400)


Last but not least these two massive brass flywheels, easily more than the weight of the other castings combined.  These finish to a seven inch diameter.
(https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/SOF8NdxSk4TEI2QUUamVS7zQa1GDm4-KT1ff8hYf89Vnm_Mi7hoUYuwtJSB5sP-S8JOLppJ8sSUFAnELQb00TRxlhRsZfYWVWLTwlHO0l7iUQQNzDWcFFdNWBtDM26_-X2gkRVClKw=w2400)

Iím thinking Christmas will be a good time to review the drawings, fondle examine the castings with respect to the drawings, and prepare to start construction early January- weather permitting.
Title: Re: building the Frisco Standard Model
Post by: Jo on December 18, 2018, 08:02:20 PM
Sounds like your Xmas day is sorted  8)

Jo
Title: Re: building the Frisco Standard Model
Post by: b.lindsey on December 18, 2018, 09:35:33 PM
Nice looking castings Craig. A lot better looking than a lump of coal for sure!!

Bill
Title: Re: building the Frisco Standard Model
Post by: Jasonb on December 19, 2018, 07:06:00 AM
Should be an interesting one to build and gives an interesting one to watch running from above with the two ignitors and their associated levers.
Title: Re: building the Frisco Standard Model
Post by: steamer on December 19, 2018, 09:22:19 AM
Oh  I like that!

Dave
Title: Re: building the Frisco Standard Model
Post by: Fowellbox on December 19, 2018, 09:32:01 AM
I don't need another project but that is so nice. I wonder what the shipping cost would be to England?
Brian
Title: Re: building the Frisco Standard Model
Post by: Jasonb on December 19, 2018, 10:30:46 AM
From the engines I have bought from the US and Canada you will be looking at £100-130GBP postage. Then you will get stung for import duty, post office handling and VAT on the total so probabaly close to an extra £200GBP
Title: Re: building the Frisco Standard Model
Post by: Roger B on December 19, 2018, 02:16:44 PM
That's a nice looking project  :ThumbsUp:  :ThumbsUp: Certainly one to follow along with  :wine1:
Title: Re: building the Frisco Standard Model
Post by: Tjark on December 19, 2018, 04:37:55 PM
A very nice looking engine, I will follow your build.

          Tjark.
 
Title: Re: building the Frisco Standard Model
Post by: Craig DeShong on December 31, 2018, 10:38:23 PM
Thanks for the above comments; Iím eagerly looking forward to building this engine.

I got a start on cutting metal on this project today.  Iíve been reviewing the drawings with various measuring devices close at hand, trying to get a feel for how to proceed.  Bob Banke, in his construction notes, warns that there isnít  much room for error with these castings in that there isnít much extra ďmeatĒ provided.  Being for-warned, I thought it prudent to mill the surfaces that require a close tolerance first, and let the minor surfaces till last.  With that in mind, I proceeded.

I thought Iíd start with the crankcase frame.  This is the base of the engine and as good a place as any to start; also the lowered numbered drawings- indicating that maybe this is the way Bob envisioned you should start.

The base of the frame casting was fairly irregular.  After some thought, I decided to just mount the thing in my mill vice and attempt to get the top surfaces level.  This I did with a test indicator and a few shims where needed; running the table back and forth and shimming where prudent.   

The top of the main bearing surfaces were addressed first.  One was fairly level; the other was cast on a slight angle.  I brought these in true as shown with a surfacing tool. (https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/Wa0_6TcJjFid_F5no83T9DbnwCZ0aBAdKBgu6miEH1PlGcpYZfoCtXiqUrZUSUKOyBXrycb_NR_6FYv1ePq2yEPZzw4D37oGouHzDRfbj36_EGr_v4m97qzIAWLZean5yHVDxP76zg=w2400)


The engine features an open crankcase with the cylinder casting mounted on pedestals, reminiscent of steam engines of the period.  The bosses for then pedestals were brought into dimension.
(https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/l9OpfUtb2DQdpRYgOpi5vDpwvZvDSEn3ustNmc4eZNrTHov-I2jH2jq2euQ_L-DMt1wypX_BzluLAKQOC9q0MV015RduIU67ikmpgLQV-42yKXwfclnxesL3Az08Wt9SJA7zV7WqQA=w2400)


Next, while everything is still square, I drilled and reamed the holes for the above mentioned pedestals.
(https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/OnIqaE6YolJTSJe4vASbzS7siXS6yYKnE-VJ90K3dBZamy0TTNW4Oixa8FiJLdRr7rQK7b4yxDq-SUX82cNKW_dpc6vxXqDgVUM_wVKsWBb53YHefya38QRq9QFtdzShwJt6UJT3Fg=w2400)


The faces of the casting where the main bearings reside were brought into dimension.
(https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/VPBcmJSUo3xKWPUmbCOJFjsPBGX3CW9uxFMbIu81BU6soNn7Qg2o6xF4DEBjcuWOrhDqtr06J8cTXGxKDi_Zgv9Drb8j20d2V09xYoh0PAcFpr_dMtzkYknCwwljGpjp1P5_y04Uug=w2400)


Next I drilled the frame mount holes for the engine.  I couldnít drill these through without drilling holes in my mill vice.  I chose to drill them nearly through but finish the holes later.  With them started, I figured I could spot these holes accurately enough to finish them.
(https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/wdVIXARYT-Dw17XTxlOmUDmKylgMKL-Yu0jKthcZXmP5dsEdacWJEN2xgl6FxrM6KzrcDEOIxb5iMDXOmLgriIopn0AoOuduDEdx6Bte7lCILReB6PjPX24uoDJkZtm5MFXMEPyKww=w2400)


Not specifically called for in the drawings, but experience has shown that itís advantageous to have the sides of the engine frame in alignment with the other frame dimensions.  Keeping the center measurement I figured earlier, I removed just enough material from both sides of this frame so that either side is a parallel reference and by locating the two sides and halving the distance between I can relocate the centerline (crankshaft line) on this casting.
(https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/xbaYo0sMdRz8RbozuRAUgCTQSlmla6aH-V2hg4ZSBLFX93Y3Q9S0jrhPKPuJc_crl93Mu8MTgoEvYqm5L0jmrmcMFDAda5BYK5eLK88Fme60hTtGuZiyW4FNA_U6tJUeesNTw23R-g=w2400)


And by performing the above operation I was able to flip the casting over and re-align the centerline to the mill table.
(https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/R2x_mERdU9XSZS6OH6nNmx-k7LJq3epwZezkade3wfsvk7gfVSLRxVtSkvAKbsN6h6blo-CVEfK4dtJzczfOf1xJUxFbtxJJ_0dZXmbO8z4RW9FFzcixTcZ4GtLXSBm7Gf3E9p9WWA=w2400)


The drawings called for this flange surface (where the engine mounts to a carriage) to be two inches from the top surface of the main bearing surface.  Even though I removed the minimum of material to get the main bearings surfaces (1st step) true, I had barely enough mater to maintain the two inches as specified in the drawings.
(https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/YKIIUfC3AzAKaPuOL2om8u6D5ACreTqRJcveQCFVzK3-fW7p5FK7hFHkovkljXYw1jAX4jvrfHt3zOz-ca_TDdU2DHdEaFJiDvI7dpyOlIztJEiHwSAiPzz9xC4tlPVRQnYqGU0b3A=w2400)


The drawings called for the bottom of the engine frame to be 3/8th inch below the above flanges.  After dropping the mill table the required 3/8th inch, the surfacing tool did not touch the surface.  Since this is a non critical measurement, and since itís advantageous to have a flat surface for the engine to rest upon (during construction) I just raised the mill table until I was able to remove some material from every part of the casting.  This really only makes the depth around .030 inch short of the 3/8th as stated in the drawings.
(https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/P4ye7buvmz_3RRknPw4G17NqeEb4CxAF7CEUVpsezdEtOmAPyJzB1c6LZP4oyE0L5jq3w3fuVuvLsH_MT8YWGj7NwG_YPZBZfltKl7cULro6i650T4RTi1WHP9kbtcceDQUAf-w5Xg=w2400)


The pedestals upon which the cylinder casting mounts are fastened by blind nuts on the under-side of the engine.  Here Iím milling relief for the nuts.  Iím just spotting these recesses over the original holes.
(https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/4nd_lT7h8ugPloK8iWI6-2jAgHJ_blHrECaQps9NSyJuulLi0tS_ebxdfcayi7V7QiIyZ-RLw1j-LVzJuO6wUaW7zlKXrIvieQt0m_apG1LqdC2O7nASrvavZ8YwQEk4_p9AzqRunQ=w2400)


Time to finish drilling the engine mount holes.
(https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/FKW1UYBQ6s3-WqmFjJ6TEAD1OsVpTvuOXxekNAJD_5PgmodZ1miEB0e85oey_y_ShShMIkzbG_5BPbhgOx3gNu_eEzHFzzEPH3YKo118y97rdtgMmQLqEmFu5u4Fwmb8GeYG3lMyDA=w2400)


Since I milled the side of the engine base in true with the other measurements, and since the bottom of the casting has been milled flat; I can just mount the engine base to a right angle plate, measure out, drill, and tap these holes for the water pump.
(https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/isQ2jGn2U7NZcU9QlZuB7zj7TTcASk1vNa4PdPzCHM0HuWaQ-frQOKG1NMslN4Bxk2iSUzIPtfRlKrt2hhhejJPbbbnikghqXx2ANQo9_FvNPkeJaJAcqT3bZsX3gpD-rU1SQBxb2A=w2400)   

That should about do it for today.  Iím not nearly ready to move on from this casting, still to be addressed are the cut out for the main bearings, the gears, and the bearing cap holes.  Good enough progress for today though.   
Title: Re: building the Frisco Standard Model
Post by: Brian Rupnow on December 31, 2018, 10:59:13 PM
Another interesting build Craig. I will be following and learning.---Brian
Title: Re: building the Frisco Standard Model
Post by: b.lindsey on January 01, 2019, 01:55:08 AM
That is some GREAT progress Craig. Nice look ing casting too!

Bill
Title: Re: building the Frisco Standard Model
Post by: Craig DeShong on January 02, 2019, 11:53:25 PM
Brian and Bill; thanks for your comments.  Thanks also for those of you silently stopping by.

Moving onward with this build.  Yesterday and today I tackled mounting the main journal caps and boring the block/caps in order to receive the main bearings and crankshaft.

In this photo Iím facing one of the journal caps.
(https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/x1BRDmUfOq8SlWPersQU7ojVa3DyFciI-APaCoHWAJWXpVdrClASq8zWAN-V40dHCXF1_80V8Hq7clT4cs1mo7JISp576U4_isvFK16wV9CtXWHkiSquzhGk4JUS7Qe5qol5uV6jyg=w2400)


Here I have one of the caps centered on the base and clamped in place.  There really isnít a good way to drill the caps and base separately.  Helical gears are located under this cap and there is minimal clearance between the four mounting bolts for the gears.  The drawings provide layout measurements for these four bolts and I used them as a reference for location of the bolts.  I used a #29 drill and drilled down through the cap and into the block.
(https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/nY9enss600QHky9Jqtq1L1N4BE_nHyV_uJS8Yh7grIZ8XKSconKyyEsA9ZxeD4yPiCMqhBYL0C7ROxn6qVVvt0eilaWzDRLkL69IBULD3DOHR1ZeDIL7UMrojk7ISubcOjlOmHGqPg=w2400)


Then removed the caps and tapped the engine base with a 8-32 hand tap.
(https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/_y_E7wkRzywb0N6F6fOCWhaTwqTGvuTtJ47uNuK9pwEmeot4ZOY19Pk0OsQ1nT0Nt6UDWChdwSVziOPeXO7PuYUCt315R74m_8cg29EVYutCejnHvX4zMbE_XHMUl2klvdC8gZ83RQ=w2400)



I then mounted the cap on a plate and spot drilled the cap with a #18 clearance drill.
(https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/NlI78PYIVi0SqPA-Kr9LSWVNNcb6F53ghSckzXl5EXD6Xrh5cUWElf1IbPPqGzPc0u9wf8DM7DjrbSYAF8bh5CLwhfHUxaU5OK_UWP9HJz-wqbCVTBjlLyyA3hCxzQqVDPX79AFjgw=w2400)


After making the necessary studs and model nuts I attached the caps to the base, I then faced the caps to the dimension of the base.
(https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/MsMszTa-hQvWD6I2wYVtZeKrb00sHRdleGUzqBhz-XS1DdVgr0QMPvy7YtJn2l64wSO1CBqy58y_qm4AmR0ZgyiVTSa25jHS0tZZlBoKkKhZ9CdNV7kn2w_KVT0JTBflDSmIqnsOFQ=w2400)



The engine base is eight inches across the bearing blocks.  Since the quill on my mill doesnít have eight inches of travel. I decided to use my right angle drive to drill/bore the bearing seats.  I started by drilling the ďnearĒ seat.
(https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/691p8QQGlfhjiSHrTlyQuc8vIs6383HfbCE_VvguOM2jRfD-FqLIe60I2u6VRzcXqnN5crO0ddvZBFNBbgkR8SjxRb1L6ZRryLjnDrr1uJCP0dhhd-QN9gEJaUbbp4bDnHfEfVqiSQ=w2400)
 

Using a long reach drill I acquired for a previous project, I drilled the ďfarĒ seat.
(https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/VcyvhXSnHYCnj1rUmPtfE8ccg-RMc8f4WgJeB3DANCjG3oCqZxpoBcp6kVJG6T6T6Std0anHFlAwGdbYpsz52CzTSHzZ6b3fgZZ0wxD0DHl3YxarWwWWAGFyKJZDgJ-GetB1ajN_BQ=w2400)



I donít have an eight inch boring bar, and attempting to locate the bearing seats by drilling/boring from both ends would be folly (for me at least).  Time to make a boring bar.  Not bad, egh?
(https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/adiG8-x63frZTSWZ2EI7zENTjKyBTRryAjYTYp5R95_WjtQ0I_Ta3c6SCJdnSgK4xODUPioPFOpjD67PJPtCChik0lgJT1-i4TXlgTFdYJl9WqFTCTkpxH4TpuxGQxaMUNWDNRjyNw=w2400)



Using my new boring bar, I bored the main bearing seats.
(https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/kozHVRpuivJMSUsHLy58GspyqhqyCP6RriG_Is-mJg0BKuwfDdVTvWy4rT4dekhRZNwJm2injVj5pmac5B6jE5bRGi89pJn3kr-qcuXGK8fnk1I8u6sbrDRB-bHOezZQu2JbTcNYeg=w2400)
Title: Re: building the Frisco Standard Model
Post by: Dave Otto on January 02, 2019, 11:56:56 PM
You are making good progress Craig, the base is coming along nicely.

Dave
Title: Re: building the Frisco Standard Model
Post by: tvoght on January 03, 2019, 12:17:02 AM
Looking good. Neat to see the Bridgeport right angle attachment in action.

--Tim
Title: Re: building the Frisco Standard Model
Post by: steamer on January 03, 2019, 01:33:56 AM
Oh I like this!!! 

Dave
Title: Re: building the Frisco Standard Model
Post by: Art K on January 03, 2019, 03:13:55 AM
Craig,
You are coming right along. The first shop I ever worked in had a right angle attachment, I think I saw it in use once. They also had the key way cutting gizmo that went on the back.
Art
Title: Re: building the Frisco Standard Model
Post by: Craig DeShong on January 03, 2019, 06:52:12 PM
Dave, Dave, Tim, and Art; thanks for your comments and encouragement.  Again, thanks for those of you silently stopping by.

Got a little done today.  I thought Iíd get the main bearings out of the way.  In this photo Iím sizing one of the bearings.
(https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/pr1tht1w18W5P47KsNvpSZsRbnnwQ5x9d4DlfIEYq10NFnD5BoAPj8irB0yu3PtpxixILlstF262yFuctHtkx-h8Jc-s4BjTEiKnIp1DIoZAvRjR4LboVjbW2Y7vRkn0eSy8lKSC_Q=w2400)


After cutting it off the stock, Iíve turned it around in the lathe and am facing the outside face.
(https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/4-6OvvDsttG-I4t_sGfbbgH8EDnAS9D498a-Gk2hP68riObwmcPp30R_XCCBha9RazK9fKFShwKdRJBN3VKx8tyuXNtUEOjgIrQKswV1l3CKKKbp_Upg9p610Z6Ih3izoQgex1LOFg=w2400)


I then drilled a starting hole in all four bearings.  This isnít the final size; I thought Iíd leave that till I have the crankshaft finished.

Even though the drawings donít call for it; I thought Iíd stake the bearings to the block.  Were one of these bearings to ďcatchĒ and start spinning in the aluminum casting, I donít believe the casting would last long. :o
(https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/K1_MqKsCyAF6l50jRJb6TLqkuOcSkYxtBQwfnBAX6RxPxPell-XNZrqe2BIxt6kUgo2MQO3d2Nd1eJSbIzcZ6B0QeePfhkt0dJ9TrEOwOZhRPN2ogQE7i4YwxvEd2GnlsFNRSu6q7A=w2400)
Title: Re: building the Frisco Standard Model
Post by: Tennessee Whiskey on January 03, 2019, 07:26:56 PM
From one of those that is silently watching: really nice work  :ThumbsUp: :ThumbsUp:

Cletus
Title: Re: building the Frisco Standard Model
Post by: 10KPete on January 03, 2019, 07:47:31 PM
This is an engine design I've admired for a long time. Watching you  build one is going to be great fun!

 :ThumbsUp: :popcorn: :popcorn:

Pete
Title: Re: building the Frisco Standard Model
Post by: Ye-Ole Steam Dude on January 03, 2019, 08:56:42 PM
Hello Craig,

Beautiful so far and going along quite well, also good idea on the bearings.

Have a great day,
Thomas
Title: Re: building the Frisco Standard Model
Post by: maury on January 03, 2019, 10:55:07 PM
Craig, Just tuned in. I noticed you have a very nice collection of engines. You are a very accomplished builder. My Hat's off to you.

I have one of these kits under my bench, and have had a false start on it. It's a very early one of the production, and the drawings had a LOT of problems, so I set it aside. Since then, I understand the drawings have been redone with the problems fixed, and I have received some of the updates. I'm in a bit of a backlog now, so the kit will have to wait it's turn, but I'm still very interested in your build. This is a very hansom engine. I saw an original at Portland Indiana several years ago.

I'm not being critical of your work, but I have a few questions. I have noticed from your pictures that some of the mounting holes and bearing cap holes have missed the center of the bosses. It's just I'd like to understand what happened. Is it the drawings, is it a build up of tolerances, or are the castings actually off? If it's just a mistake, I understand, I've made more than my share if these.

I see you are doing a splendid job on the machining, keep posting your progress.

Also, just as a note. I have seen at least one of these engines built using spark plugs instead of the authentic igniters. I urge you not to take that short cut. I have built numerous igniter engines, and find them to be more reliable starters and runners.

Good luck
maury
Title: Re: building the Frisco Standard Model
Post by: Craig DeShong on January 04, 2019, 07:29:02 PM
Maury.  Good catch.  I was going to discuss this later, when I addressed the gears but now that youíve observed the problem, Iíll address it now.  Hopefully this discussion will help someone who follows and who builds this engine.

As I stated earlier, Bob Banke specifically states in his building notes that there are close tolerances that must be observed.  I didnít fully understand this till I ran afoul of a problem.
As we all know; castings are irregular blobs upon which we impose a specific order.  No two castings are the same so someone else, building this engine, may or may not see difficulties similar to those I encountered.

As I interpreted the drawings, I established the centerline for the crankshaft by halving the distance between the two sides of the casting (x in the following diagram).  I then located the locations for the pedestals (Y).  Lastly, the locations for the base mounting holes (Z) were located.  All this seemed good.

I proceeded to drill the holes as per the drawing specifications.
(https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/WhLEcAPoua3RwXxUJZYTWtiqbhXg-Z2dEr6CDMosR5ArICGVv8a9ww8irg6y2V50CK9UM555YLvSLMll4Ix7hJyV5PnGAiNS8CNK0N6jj3Szxpqjo_A-YCi4WVl_GippBT_X5gWcNA=w2400)


When I went to position the journal caps on the base, the bottom casting lined up well with the base; the casting on the top did not line up well at all.  Rather than hold to the dimensions on the drawings, I chose to position the upper bearing cap as shown below.
(https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/OG_8p2SQqde-etoICiN0R2bfxXkTVM3An-ZRwOOg5aAyQ9Q_im_0OscgdvtqRfdiqiavgeW-2SVBR85h5J1X6Zw-6fzoC7T6uzrR_GX1d3SVsbu5716Tw1nWk6uOdnxG7MkyaOpdWQ=w2400)


Normally, this might have been ok, but with the tight tolerances required by this model, the location of the two left most threaded stanchions interfered with the position of the helical gears that drive the vertical side shaft.  You can see in this photo below.
(https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/jDvmlnDLP-RgNaIlQ-RowIVcZ4YovsPsy5LJLsPp2kyZquSsA0gGA1OqRRI02ltP_pXhGXY3OEQE-FIF8Uh8YrDko_yq1xX4cblqA3DQHbmekEbgnzZNr7yAX7_o1gYo6NlNk-RdFw=w2400)


The best remedy for this I could discern was to fill the original tapped holes in the base casting with aluminum threaded rods and re-drill the holes, holding to the dimensions given in the drawing.  The result of this is that, though the gears now have the necessary clearance, journal cap is no longer centered on the engine base casting.
(https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/lgFrwdgmn_3V_A_YjoO0q-MGOnkC8NJ5Mqbdbxo9ox6y_9q7mBDNlnd5IWAUIghtZq49K3cLLCs5xHUyY8PQuBqe8s-euSwm2F-hL4P1Yv1aFT42icU_ENHCVFMa6FgwUdylsPacCA=w2400)


As a result of my error, I needed to bore the base and bearing caps for the crankshaft bearings around .040 in. over size to get the bore ďtrueĒ.  Iíve compensated for this by making the bearing OD oversize also and I believe this isnít going to cause any residual problems.   Hopefully, I can move forward without any additional error.

Hindsight being 20-20, Iím thinking that my initial measurement layout was flawed.  Were I to do this again, I might proceed as follows:
I would locate the crankshaft centerline by placing the journal caps on the base and drawing a line down through the center of the two as shown by C/L.
I would the spot drill the eight frame mounts by center of boss, regardless of the dimensions on the drawing.  I would use these frame mounts to mount the base to a builders plate and then mill the side plate edges parallel to the C/L at a known distance, and then mill the top and bottom of the builders plate perpendicular to the C/L.
Using the C/L I would locate and drill the four pedestal mount holes (Y) and then the eight Journal cap mounts.  The location for the crankshaft main bearings could then be located and bored as I did above.
(https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/XzZxbZRaDlt-NvuG0N8K_spStVRKfTO9aObtFBeTJKE17Diuo_gvLadWcG2o2Fy8Z-W9ANZw0o9icpwhENA7bzuaf7o8jgd4YrHyTX0hns3XA-fljmKfitZgseFX6RuXaipMBjAUhw=w2400)


This would result (at least for my casting) in the casting for the engine base being a degree (probably no more) askew from the centerline of the crankshaft.  I doubt this would result in a problem.
Title: Re: building the Frisco Standard Model
Post by: maury on January 04, 2019, 08:09:28 PM
Craig, thanks for the analysis. I'd be interested in seeing the corrected build. Might even be worth trying to get another bearing cap casting. I know when I was selling kits, a number of builders wanted an extra part now and then. Was always happy to help them get a successful build.

It may be that a little pattern work is needed to properly address the problem. Are you sure you have the crank bore centered on the features of the base casting?

maury
Title: Re: building the Frisco Standard Model
Post by: Craig DeShong on January 04, 2019, 10:36:21 PM
Well, that's the problem Maury, at least with these castings.  I have the crank bore centered on the base casting features and with that, the one bearing cap won't align.  As I describe above, with the crankshaft aligned with the bearing covers, then the other measurements, as given in the drawings, won't come in align without a little fudging.
Title: Re: building the Frisco Standard Model
Post by: b.lindsey on January 04, 2019, 10:45:58 PM
That is a shame Craig. Hope your work around will turn out ok. It's a very nice engine. One would hope that castings would be prover better before release, but not always the case I guess.

Bill
Title: Re: building the Frisco Standard Model
Post by: Dave Otto on January 05, 2019, 12:20:51 AM
Hi Craig

I have some pictures that I took at the GEARS shows of a few of these completed engines, one being the original that Ed Banke (Bob's dad) had built. At least two of them have the same bearing cap that you are having troubles with shifted off the gear boss a little bit. same as what you have done with yours. Curiously on the engine that Ed had made everything lines up really nice.

If you would like to have a copy of these pictures PM me your email address and I will send them to you.

Dave
Title: Re: building the Frisco Standard Model
Post by: Craig DeShong on January 05, 2019, 02:22:05 AM
I was visiting a friend earlier today; a very competent tool and die maker who spent thirty years in the tool room before he retired.  Now he too, builds engines as a hobby.

His current project is a twin cylinder steam engine.  He was showing me a casting that came with his ďkitĒ.  Looking at it, it was obvious to see that when the part was cast, the cope and drag became somewhat misaligned.  He was discussing the care he was taking to make sure that when he machined the part from this misaligned casting, that all the required surfaces would be met.  Though the top and bottom of the casting were out of alignment he was convinced that the necessary part was still contained within the casting; his job was to bring it out.  At no time did he fault the foundry for giving him an ďout of alignmentĒ casting.

Likewise, In my discussion of the base and journal caps on this Frisco Standard Iíve tried very hard not to blame my failure on the drawings or the castings that were delivered.  It is obvious to me that an appropriately machined base and journal caps were contained within the materials provided and that a competent machinist could have successfully executed them. 

I was unable to do so to my satisfaction due to: inexperience? (Iím a computer programmer, not a professional machinist), or just plain not thinking things through enough.  Iím quite sure that were I provided with fresh casting I could execute the task much better.  I was also told that the mark of a ďgood machinistĒ is being able to get oneself out of the occasional jamb they find themselves in.   

So, weíll proceed forward with this build.  When the engine is complete it will be hard to see the error and only you and I will know too look for it.  I wonít spread the news if you wonít. :embarassed:
Title: Re: building the Frisco Standard Model
Post by: Jo on January 05, 2019, 08:25:25 AM
Though the top and bottom of the casting were out of alignment he was convinced that the necessary part was still contained within the casting; his job was to bring it out.  At no time did he fault the foundry for giving him an “out of alignment” casting.

Likewise, In my discussion of the base and journal caps on this Frisco Standard I’ve tried very hard not to blame my failure on the drawings or the castings that were delivered.  It is obvious to me that an appropriately machined base and journal caps were contained within the materials provided and that a competent machinist could have successfully executed them. 

I totally agree if the part can be taken out of an out of line casting it is worth a punt. Its all part of the additional fun of working with castings - proving to yourself you can  :)

Sometimes other flaws can make a casting unusable  :( I have seen castings delivered from foundries that had holes and deep marks on the bores of cylinders that really shouldn't have been allowed out of the foundry  :ShakeHead:


If you want to see horrors that have been repaired you want to look at the base of my third Triple Orphan 'Lucky'. A bit of a fettle around your casting on the base plate and no one will ever know  ;)

Jo
Title: Re: building the Frisco Standard Model
Post by: Roger B on January 05, 2019, 10:36:34 AM
Excellent progress  :praise2: I like the right angle attachment and a good save on the bearing cap  :ThumbsUp:  :ThumbsUp:
Title: Re: building the Frisco Standard Model
Post by: steamer on January 05, 2019, 03:14:10 PM
You might want to consider locating the second gear on a toolmakers button, and then use that button to locate the gear.
Title: Re: building the Frisco Standard Model
Post by: Craig DeShong on January 05, 2019, 10:56:28 PM
Pete, Maury, Bill, Dave, Jo, Roger, Steamer; thanks for your comments, thoughts, commiserations, etc.  Again, thanks for those silently stopping by to share in my plight.

Errors overcome and placed behind me :ThumbsUp: I sallied forth with the build. First on the agenda was making extra room on the base and under the journal cap for the crankshaft gears.  The plans recommend a fly cutter; didnít have one (at least of an adequate size) so here was another opportunity to make some home-grown tooling, the results of which you see below.
(https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/iYAwjyanqpmMwPGKnsDUnU1AcMEktqp8MJpgHjPuIzlHToxMUvw2NCRJhRJuakxb_Bgu1c791vFUXQeMLpKIzgihNQFiND-efr-xAvVE_ylruqiK-Y3_J9hGrwvUixmrzkx_WfnfZA=w2400)


This is the setup I used to cut the relief for the crankshaft gears.
(https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/KuZtPOD37wDtA3zDXaQEPAYVX24tgXYeE4J6gBGBJlikURKk2S6reh97VHcnGvftjj51Va0osaMk_rS3YMvHc7WnG4BOCCBPUioQbocXgktiRDHG7G65eYpvyi6rMYdUgTqClvoqxg=w2400)


The results after several passes
(https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/_ssi5BqAIB_m6cWhKNzshf12cSWsfgVRPv7VJCwPYhkn7unTTyQZfi_thRhkkXuaEPBXlZBLMro-1gkfb_72Snm_7PZflzPX-Wg1RTpYlsnpEau58vZVdxag_Z9J5-0V0MjSZtEZvA=w2400)



The tops of the rectangular boss on these journal caps are cut away to form oil pockets, but first I planed off the top of the cap.  A hinged brass cap will eventually be fitted.
(https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/gSupRbxqObMAzJbTnCmeJLjJ8nrsuzz3Q0AYAf-h17rrqqglXPOP0qNK9WlwzIeMCK-mcjZTOnXsKmW4LuTHoXoDkoNW6Z-nZmssWcOcIPBj5iNvFpCyCEg252a9PUaZ3yNcPiyjrw=w2400)
 


The pockets were then formed using a 3/16th inch end mill.
(https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/diJEsO0qK8WhkkRymL6zRK_kgYoRNaBNOEfHNaH8hhYbILsPvr_Kei_77xq0lr8jCVSXiwmxAEn910_gVMS9UWpWrKCGXCKIfatkbAdvFtkv191Xww7fmhV9sKjldySQhS9wuV7ApA=w2400)


Then oil holes were drilled, allowing oil to pass through the cap into the bearing and gear area.
(https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/2KmOYrPlkbfGS2NwodtAETYrnxJxSONxmopwOKY_Z4nYqU_yaqR1W2FighGjx9kpfMhoGiTgzOwc03s2_sB9nIn9mdR7pF2ID--SqqRdTZr2J9nneXxxK3Vlp7it48CCBDy0DZl_hw=w2400)



Iím not yet done with these caps.  Iíll need to drill a hole in the top of the circular boss for the vertical side shaft and Iíll also need to provide relief for the gearing.  To do this Iíll first need to have the crankshaft.

With this in mind, I started thinking about fabricating the crankshaft.   The drawings show this as seven parts, pinned and then silver soldered together.  Iím going to attempt a one piece crankshaft.  Iíve made several one piece, single throw crankshafts with past projects, how much more difficult can a two throw crankshaft be? :ROFL:

Here Iím getting my thoughts together regarding layout; I hope my thoughts are clearer than this photo. :stickpoke:
(https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/3yE86JUnYHHS7zCZmGVJl-378MPmdenfqnZW8x44PRyS3-VwkVh0yJgZKLdRArbtnxXRGy0LYzV3o7LlGmMiYHTk5762RfLivJk1tywNw4lRnk7pZqkXxL-LYY9x4cZX0pJAkbUlgQ=w2400)
 

Iím going to remove most of the material on the mill since that will be faster (and less nerve wracking when working between the throw centers on the lathe). Here Iím locating center for one of the throws.
(https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/M9eVECInxRheJ4xyJWJqiwUUMNKhzRaPIVyWpaU7-VL59Ft1Ao72EW0dKUYzBB4w_YQa8-x8LTNIf2gx41GvwBsJ60XUPr7QTy4ZPu4xjDiK-i0fD5GYqhbNWi2WxWhgfIgx1FhEkQ=w2400)
 

Iím just removing stock, getting ready to move to the lathe.
(https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/YF0gRvsq4X_QudO2s9EALhjQMmfx42h5t7qlE6Pk4Ng9BDMxLlhcbXKiIxu_QJeFNzMRDPjtn7CF1UYQXzkQqsvUjqk1X9hKkyJcWhPe9ldhkopbQQVwS1rKMx7YpbLJWo6k_nTDnw=w2400)
Title: Re: building the Frisco Standard Model
Post by: b.lindsey on January 06, 2019, 12:04:28 AM
You are really moving along Craig. Making good use of the right angle attachment too. Still following along.

Bill
Title: Re: building the Frisco Standard Model
Post by: yogi on January 06, 2019, 12:11:29 AM
Great progress Craig!  :popcorn:
The right angle head sure comes in handy.  :ThumbsUp:
Title: Re: building the Frisco Standard Model
Post by: Art K on January 06, 2019, 03:11:54 AM
Craig,
Thanks for sharing your difficulties with the castings. It helps us who have castings be aware of things to look out for that we don't have to think about with bar stock. Granted it's a hard lesson but I must admit you came up with a great save.
Art
Title: Re: building the Frisco Standard Model
Post by: Jasonb on January 06, 2019, 07:23:35 AM
I'm following along.

Any reason you did not add the ctr drilled holes for the two throws at the same time as drilling the main one or will you be holding it off centre in a fixture rather than between ctrs?
Title: Re: building the Frisco Standard Model
Post by: Craig DeShong on January 06, 2019, 11:06:09 PM
Bill, Yogi, Art, Jason; thanks for your comments and for stopping by.

Jason- Iíll get to your question presently.

I acquired the right angle attachment shortly after I got my Bridgeport mill about five years ago; originally for some work with building my Otto Langen atmospheric engine.  Since then Iíve found it handy on numerous occasions when something is too long to mill in the conventional way.

I mounted this piece of steel on the four-jaw chuck and in the live center in the tail stock; then squared it to the ways with an indicator mounted to the crosshead on the carriage.
(https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/t3xQgG5lVdgtKh9BkdHkll_ehbPTHQjLm-mchejF5gC0oMwfptSXB7igdMYPBe3mtGIRTzhdjJYpnIR2mwieafM-wjs2a5iKMTGzdkXszPbzaHMz1vsvkKFXFBrxagtCkUSrTLVkRQ=w2400)


Then I formed a cylinder at the tailstock.  Iíll use this in a later step when I mount the piece on the mill.
(https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/XA8zm696VqSchE9_XP_Xy7uTPDAckXxXFpXnQbvqW4yrO26rqcKq7zHDdXwE_7cihFO7dlPZZrdau5Jik1peWg_53b2M2iHJL1N7NqIBJhkwCSHIruvFjrqikE33Ioor_xQb1qFGxQ=w2400)


Turning the piece around I mounted and squared it in the lathe in the same manner as above, I formed a like cylinder on the other end.  Both these cylinders are sacrificial and will only be used in the fabrication process.
(https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/VS8IoyctrccfrWxEPJ9w2hQrzZkjNLDPXjOB_iE4LBgBHKAsEW66IdM3HGNIN0bln0zzssL05XSa92G3ylvudH6eMrrQZMwlgTRhhrzXHCqhtpAbXqlPVsHx3-IfkT32-hBsSByKdg=w2400)
 

Jason- now Iím placing the centers in both ends of the work piece.  Had I done this previously Iíd have just milled them off on the lathe in the previous steps.

In this photo, the center hole in the middle will be in the center of one of the crankshaft shafts; the center on the top and bottom are center of throws and will be used during fabrication of the throws and then milled away. (https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/7po7PPQvpOe0FMTmxcwaa8FNHpUvkq3BlVwEmN7NdsiTiv1bB2Enzr26QCCKJ5ZCKnc1R_DJKrX6wGNQckINnJ-r5dphsbB5RrGukA53Xq231SIlwlo-OzniU0sO8tC8mEkJoZY9UQ=w2400)


Just showing the other end of the piece where I had, prior to the photo above, located the same centers for the same purposes.
(https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/AkK-tD2ESijxvJhdg1nQvB17Uu3bxG3WMia2cve5clqa7Cf_Zj-A72fSDJ6dILIYPrBJbqiXlGqArb_Rg0MueZKUTwb84MaWYIbrcl_0lCrANyUMVNHUmtK7W85mHVrX3fRGROJCeA=w2400)


Iím using a 1 inch by 4 inch piece of steel.  The crankshaft across the throws is a little under three inches in width.  I wanted a three inch piece of steel but my metal supplier only has this four inch piece so thatís what I bought.  I was originally planning on cutting away all the scrap as two larger pieces but I found that this piece of steel, with the crankshaft being off center was beginning to confuse me; so before I made some colossal error I thought Iíd just remove the one side.

I have a cutoff saw, but not a band saw.  I didnít want to mill one inch away and kill a perfectly good end mill in the process so I chose the nibble approach; besides it gave my trusty old mill drill something to do.  Ever since I got the Bridgeport it tends to just sit in the corner with nothing to do.
(https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/ME6ElrNaELxEHKHc1hkmL2ldClbyHwxbhokvt217zdpUxBseSLub_uzJ_6B0qXfeevjyOFC1mm8udcjXCVt8All7fD6e4VoDzlg7w994Mgf9ji_Jqe7TS1I_MR3MHF8k7Jly3s1hNA=w2400)


Might as well mill of the jagged end.
(https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/BuKmk1x-TDniodFbzaXfzDfH-XNyHI6McMEr49Tl1RwRvTuvUCivyrwRgR5UK9f00QAK_A_a0qFTNqjRQsKFN0qqubxdoN0PLRBv5UepAV0UOthXiU45bmWc6Es3Yxuqaskq8scPog=w2400)


So here we are so far.  Tomorrow Iíll be centering this piece on the mill between a center and my indexing head and begin roughing out the crankshaft throws.
(https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/bEUiLAhTk8Jg8AOVKxINSgX-vsTQo6PgCO0QxIX8wXEBoMwhwLpTxuAiJa6KdSjt5LHcm6f5yf6qn6QQUCwUo_JBlyfM5UlUJg3V-EjfcL8UNv40xPSjuNmOZrXlHUq-x-BP-H-4Tg=w2400)
Title: Re: building the Frisco Standard Model
Post by: flopearedmule on January 07, 2019, 04:04:58 AM
Craig,
I'm a silent follower, I'm enjoying your build and thanks for posting your progress.
I bought these prints awhile ago.......maybe someday.
Title: Re: building the Frisco Standard Model
Post by: Craig DeShong on January 07, 2019, 09:19:20 PM
Thanks again for your comments and for those silently stopping by.

I started on one of the cutouts for the crankshaft throws today.  This is the setup I used.
(https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/KzaurS5oN-vEKf0vqEuJrny9q8zyk6r7HT-1uz7WBDGRIS6LIOhqBnjFktv4_FznBgl2g1fjgw3tjBFDjxQNxR7V6S5JFX_e465pR442DrMpFp4W6sSAKFXIpmj2WFxhHKXsPlyhEA=w2400)


I hadnít made but one or two passes when I noticed that the piece was rotating in the chuck.  I added the right angle plate to give the work piece some vertical stability.
(https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/VK0MrpoE6UJw8DTA5gH0NU2HPQ4i89j40e8WZNS8tLuOOmBM7y5awFz1YCZeKU7kOxsTT8nNXgnOM5rVQ_OP6K-G8ijJ36p2lPBDOoqIaaHc5wW9PqZHrlRdN5j6j-ONLvv5Ls-w4w=w2400)



Several hours later, Iíve pretty much roughed in the first throw.  Iíll finish on the lathe next.
(https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/4XE5tJggktyTC8e1ZKRwefHSHjIoW45xNPapfVxJK67kK_inOQ61z9zgkWjov3ZsST4GaK6YlheHCjYQL-498F0XewrHuOhIRDk4DbYAroYqESqYAHpthQlU8pdJQkG5w8TXTPHvIQ=w2400)
Title: Re: building the Frisco Standard Model
Post by: Brian Rupnow on January 07, 2019, 11:40:36 PM
Craig--When I do that I just drill a hole about 0.030" less than the finished width of the slot, and cut most of the meat out with my bandsaw, then finish up with my lathe. As I was typing this I remembered you saying yesterday that you don't have a bandsaw. Oh well, I'm watching.---Brian
Title: Re: building the Frisco Standard Model
Post by: Jasonb on January 08, 2019, 07:19:43 AM
You could still stitch drill most of that waste out of the slot and probably also quicker to do most of the milling with it horizontal.

I see the reason for the boss now though as you have found a bit small for the leverage involved.
Title: Re: building the Frisco Standard Model
Post by: Tennessee Whiskey on January 08, 2019, 12:51:55 PM
Iím still following along and trying to become less silent  8). That looks to be a pretty long shaft also. Whatís the dimensions on it Craig?

Cletus
Title: Re: building the Frisco Standard Model
Post by: Roger B on January 08, 2019, 05:23:34 PM
I have found that when cutting crankshafts from flat bar a hacksaw with a good blade and chain drillings is quicker than turning or milling.
Title: Re: building the Frisco Standard Model
Post by: Craig DeShong on January 08, 2019, 09:26:34 PM
Brian:  :facepalm:

Jason: I think I'll go your route with the next throw, it took forever to mill the throw out.

Cletus: Always happy to hear from you

Roger:  I think you and Jason have convinced me

Much to my chagrin today, I found that my current lathe tooling isn't long enough to reach all the way down into the crankshaft throw.  Fortunately the tool holder on my lathe can accept 1/2 inch tooling which I can get in 4 inch lengths so I ordered some.  Looks like I'll be taking a  brief break from this project till the tooling arrives.
Title: Re: building the Frisco Standard Model
Post by: steamer on January 08, 2019, 10:00:23 PM
Hey Craig...any way that makes the part is the right way....just go slow and think about what you're doing...it'll be fine

Dave
Title: Re: building the Frisco Standard Model
Post by: steamer on January 08, 2019, 10:02:14 PM
I like gluing in supports between the webs im not machining to keep the crank from flexing.

You just wave a torch at it later on and the cyano lets go.  Clean up with Acetone.

Dave
Title: Re: building the Frisco Standard Model
Post by: crueby on January 08, 2019, 10:12:04 PM
I like gluing in supports between the webs im not machining to keep the crank from flexing.

You just wave a torch at it later on and the cyano lets go.  Clean up with Acetone.

Dave
Superglue will hold the packing rods well enough to handle spinning on the lathe?
Title: Re: building the Frisco Standard Model
Post by: steamer on January 08, 2019, 10:16:02 PM
I like gluing in supports between the webs im not machining to keep the crank from flexing.

You just wave a torch at it later on and the cyano lets go.  Clean up with Acetone.

Dave
Superglue will hold the packing rods well enough to handle spinning on the lathe?


Yup!!!   Think about it, when it's between centers, the lathe is squeezing on the packing.   the glue just keeps it there.  I size the packing pieces and cut them from bar stock and face to length.

Dave

Title: Re: building the Frisco Standard Model
Post by: Art K on January 09, 2019, 02:39:08 AM
Craig,
You're making good progress. Some great ideas guys, I think I'll file them away. I think when I made the Upshur I ground a 3/8 nut to fit and let the center's pressure hold it together. Val was an overhung crank.
Art
Title: Re: building the Frisco Standard Model
Post by: 10KPete on January 09, 2019, 03:30:40 AM
Dang, that's lookin' real nice! Tell that ol' leg to take a break so you can get in more shop time!

 :DrinkPint:

Pete
Title: Re: building the Frisco Standard Model
Post by: crueby on January 09, 2019, 03:38:27 AM
I like gluing in supports between the webs im not machining to keep the crank from flexing.

You just wave a torch at it later on and the cyano lets go.  Clean up with Acetone.

Dave
Superglue will hold the packing rods well enough to handle spinning on the lathe?


Yup!!!   Think about it, when it's between centers, the lathe is squeezing on the packing.   the glue just keeps it there.  I size the packing pieces and cut them from bar stock and face to length.

Dave
Ah, good point! Physics works!   :ThumbsUp:
Title: Re: building the Frisco Standard Model
Post by: Craig DeShong on January 10, 2019, 01:21:42 AM
Dave, Chris, Art, Pete; thanks for your comments.  Iíll give you another option that I use for temporarily fastening the support between the throw webs for supportÖ hot glue.  Iíve used it numerous times, easy to install and cleanup is a breeze.

UPS usually delivers to residences in my neighborhood at dark-30 but today the UPS delivery showed up mid-afternoon, so I got some work in after all.  That probably was as well because tomorrow is supposed to be CÖ..OÖ..LÖ..D and there probably wonít be any shop time.

After grinding this Ĺ inch shank down to 3/8th inch I got busy finishing the throw.  Didnít take any pictures, so after I was all done, I caught-up with the photos, youíll get the idea.

Cleaning up the left (center) throw
(https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/yeObq6iWhC7m4A8Bx2zl_OXH4DhqUAj8Zq6qvo1GZytKQ_KRWEAASUJAX2nqYuwMxWQJUcD3OSpieiw-vi1ZsTFNPCXmhO50qRgRwQFCHvPXohilhPC8m7lfKNDCwj4oj3O6b9MuGg=w2400)


  Cleaning up the right throw
(https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/RBuMoiOTu9dQ-rqIS1UFIZldEdgM6gvcRyugPvfnotAsgddANiPEmBApCD_TK4ffLbcPhslxsAf-Kc_FCe9NOzs0cAqkMGLNARwfxxYdWuSdWPiqAUjmNMxxp6SaqJqhT_HsQV22VA=w2400)


Working down to the final diameter
(https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/5PQxXWkRVOslDpNDEBKN0lwhWn2Uf8VpBB4HU7wbkVDN4AoG16-EpJht8aVdeBrv6m2Sj6s6-f5sWT4J8Bu-WxaW19EdNEtbZowlMc4WHubHly1gcp3hB4jXDn5GkWwgwbxvc_PV_A=w2400)


A little final sanding to remove a few tool marks
(https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/m9xuwwWYt_ZosR3fzj7YpQ5AVm2FZP5i6MEtQVUvireeRgyhve3OADq9IBW7hvxzy7YUSRdKK5il0Q4aQ-Sq7R7aSSP3rq3xqS0TBBxh92Jpwdlu-f2QAS5OTC9pUp9BAAh0Q26L7A=w2400)


Next Iíll move on to the left-hand throw.
Title: Re: building the Frisco Standard Model
Post by: steamer on January 10, 2019, 01:40:39 AM
Looks awesome!!   Thanks for the tip   ill try that next time.

Dave
Title: Re: building the Frisco Standard Model
Post by: crueby on January 10, 2019, 01:46:43 AM
Very well done, that is quite a big part!


 :popcorn:
Title: Re: building the Frisco Standard Model
Post by: Craig DeShong on January 10, 2019, 10:14:16 PM
Dave, Chris; thanks for stopping by.  It is a large piece to be swinging in the lathe.  Iíll be glad when I have these throws complete and I can be working outside instead of inside the throws.  One little lapse of concentration and have the throw come around and strike the tooling and UGLY things will happen. :hammerbash:

I braved the cold North Carolina weather (yea- you guys in Canada are laughing yourself silly now :lolb:) and worked on the other throw.   It was pretty much the same procedure.

Here Iím milling out between the throw shoulders (stuck to the way I did the first one- if it ainít broke, donít fix it)
(https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/KA54d9w7jvtaN7dhCJjEtV8nkntTbnFp1Kiqx2IiavfiseiEwYUVp_TfNkWcbnvTh4Hyz5AUfIXm1VxfJ-cbenGrmEH0pmIMSF6w3SFrqS4TVWcnP1IH5uofDMxpFKZu0wAmbnugcg=w2400)


Finishing up on the mill
(https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/h2O2MFGA4aCM27QYQ08zIXxp2dITUGPkBEjeYory1rRuAe23yk1t8V81I4EY-BIB3PaHs8lZKdELgkSHxWHsVgWsPCObt65zxnr9vRNtvZ1t-pUElsDni7J3RtNc_evFNRAKp8f8hg=w2400)
 
And the lathe work
(https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/cDbMlorCyW_rajS0kdSXI_0UmnNmcK8MVhw_i8I4NntdIKSMwhiiZWMXIBTJXglRw8Cc4bdEdEMSeReunNcVLaVkEHfOAVTDXGeT_uszBoga5QaA6lUssZ8kEYN0Cusc9THJUu9YkA=w2400)
Title: Re: building the Frisco Standard Model
Post by: b.lindsey on January 10, 2019, 10:46:03 PM
Coming along well Craig!! Yes the temps were rather cool today. The shop heat pump is sure helping though.

Bill
Title: Re: building the Frisco Standard Model
Post by: steamer on January 10, 2019, 10:48:33 PM
Looking great Craig....going to single digits F here tonight...without the wind chill

Dave
Title: Re: building the Frisco Standard Model
Post by: Brian Rupnow on January 10, 2019, 11:26:55 PM
Machining crankshafts makes your old heart go "pitter-patter", doesn't it!!! It was -28 C here today with the wind-chill. I had to go out and buy a new electric drill and get a different intake valve spring, and it certainly wasn't bikini weather.
Title: Re: building the Frisco Standard Model
Post by: steamer on January 11, 2019, 12:08:04 AM
Machining crankshafts makes your old heart go "pitter-patter", doesn't it!!! It was -28 C here today with the wind-chill. I had to go out and buy a new electric drill and get a different intake valve spring, and it certainly wasn't bikini weather.
Machining crankshafts makes your old heart go "pitter-patter", doesn't it!!! It was -28 C here today with the wind-chill. I had to go out and buy a new electric drill and get a different intake valve spring, and it certainly wasn't bikini weather.

 8)
Title: Re: building the Frisco Standard Model
Post by: Art K on January 11, 2019, 02:56:39 AM
Craig,
I have to ask, how far out is that lathe tool sticking out. It looks to be about 2 inches. The one lathe tool I have for that sort of thing I used on the cooling fins on Val, I needed .720 depth of cut to clear the corners of the cylinder, clears the tool by .03". A friend used the wire EDM to cut it .5 tall .25 wide blank. I should design on with radiused corners relieved in the center, for turning crank throws. Then when he has time on the machine he can make me a new one to use on a crankshaft.
Art
Title: Re: building the Frisco Standard Model
Post by: Craig DeShong on January 12, 2019, 01:03:36 AM
Bill, Dave, Brian, Art; thanks for your comments.  Thanks for everyone silently stopping by too.

Brian:
Machining crankshafts makes your old heart go "pitter-patter", doesn't it!!!
:NotWorthy:

Art: your estimate was spot on.  I have around two inches of tooling reaching into the throw.  I couldnít do much more.  I purchased some Ĺ inch tooling specifically for this task since my 3/8th inch tooling wasnít long enough.

You know, you really need to refer to the drawings every once in a while. :stickpoke:  After I finished the first throw and had setup for the second, I remembered that I needed to add this profile in the piece between the throws.  Since I have the 2nd throw already set up, might as well address that one and then go back and do the first.

Here Iím just getting started.
(https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/htjxxZCLOjNDh3Au4jMezg7jlC5dm2KGxcoG7sDh4JWZg8V2q8zKAMKsF_uEfqnWWo0YEYGPPB343b34Uhh3jeHGaozwPdPmdUnTB7S6inMKhQ4sYLjLAMd-_iD1gf0LTPkC8UYhsQ=w2400)


And here Iíve just finished this detail for the second throw.
(https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/YZbCvjkPm_36iIHJvUImXSqIm2qHTAWhNvlBABBcAh4TYivY7j7dVehLT7WKO6BBdg-PqMYAJlOVPzvfm8cZBRscOv-M1CVC6A9leI3QBVRj-_H6GNEhLpSE2sQXg1UV7xdu8aR5kA=w2400)


A detail I need to finish on this side of the throw is cutting a curve in the top of the minor and major throws.  Since we all like videos and I was getting kind-a bored hereís a video of the process.
UT1UnW3OkBg

With the crankshaft turned around and back in the lathe where it was for the first setup, :facepalm2: Iím starting on the detail for the first throw as I did above.  Since this is cosmetic, Iím not too concerned about not having this detail exactly concentric to the connecting rod journal.
(https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/ZdHHcv5g_B8UiOW-iOVUIYi4zmQLbMEPeNPv3rnwDOoQhx2sYpjpKaJW1xXTyYSEz2OzCfOOKaU7VhctYBgtKXHcdcRtkuXf5exH8LJYpxlBAF7-pFJCFzzCBfu81DL2iK9TGLrO8g=w2400)
 

A video of the same.  Since someone is bound to comment :stickpoke: on the small divot in the connecting rod journal I guess I need to explain.  Just a moment of inattention while on the mill and my end mill took this divot out of the journal. :disappointed:  Itís very small and shouldnít affect operation of the engine; in fact it might help it in that it probably will retain oil in the journal.  If you press me on it Iím going to claim that I did it on purpose. :naughty:
OUWp6t4tBcU


All done working inside these throws.  Only outside work remaining to complete. :pinkelephant:
(https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/MTt4VP8ZbCEa805F0krsjKfR2JcqZ1-DT-_PRiyNXz1VLD-HEMuP2_2VpJq8Uvw-_vefmkUefrp1Q6IR5psHas9nm4w-7JCdDUbF0As8n1UQ45MH5qAFAcDOCJA3j1X0_vwdy_LDtg=w2400)
Title: Re: building the Frisco Standard Model
Post by: steamer on January 12, 2019, 01:16:15 AM
Take a divot out of the part from a moments in attention!?    Naaw   I've never done that!!!! :embarassed: ::) :hammerbash: :zap: :Mad:

Looks good from here Craig!
Title: Re: building the Frisco Standard Model
Post by: 10KPete on January 12, 2019, 01:30:32 AM
 :ThumbsUp:

 :popcorn: :popcorn:

Pete
Title: Re: building the Frisco Standard Model
Post by: Craig DeShong on January 12, 2019, 10:03:39 PM
Dave and Pete; thanks for your input.  Thanks to those following along too.

It was a PLEASURE to be working outside the crankshaft throws today.  First order of business was to mill off these two bosses I machined into the stock to assist milling the crankshaft throws.  Donít need them anymore and in fact, theyíre in the way now.
(https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/iTShoY9cMxbcgtWWGalRQ94oq8wag_QmGnGc_Hklalp5GrkNiukzXbOM-Rd05FmJH3oiaR9q62_tlTbfqOG7nZ2uVFpUNQMjxUs_MIQEvG0JY2JQI-I7oKsU9WWniWTe-sFnctyqjQ=w2400)


This is the last time Iíll be locating the work piece in the 4-jaw chuck and laboriously centering it.
(https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/PhuKrABfSwjmp379YfkrITxRrq-veCepJZmZVPfrjk-8m4wmLB_tDgXoVTqVhZvLSP_15CrMl0bqIsBsWF4xa0hb-nhD5IRB5lEDrtHqVC8RFL2ejKWkeDpYMsuvaaQ8KbIqiSTglA=w2400)


With the piece centered, Iím turning a round end to grip with the 3-jaw chuck.  Iíll be working the piece on itís true center from now forward.
(https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/lpcaa-_cNX7d7Dex7u_FjJ9KpwXhXo-7V-AoD7Tyb-UA-4pnmQxB-zqIK0yHYXhaCTRJbcLmUUBVHg_d7wgbp_mxwBjlDurrA_rTg7vZ1hKewHrZT7hpA1kHUewJ2YJSSTiaPuatVA=w2400)


With an appropriate fixture turned to accept the 3-jaw chuck, Iíve removed lots of excess material.  I have to say, the piece, after nearly a week of work, looks like itís ready for the scrap bin.  Letís hope that changes in the next few days.
(https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/4xnxcucp0tRSIfCeGp1wR31nuZ2MOS2q8z0O2TqefSuPiRwwd1ugZaopklsLE8rCJkMnscjTSbreitgaCblbu4B6KiCNMK1wRup-Yq2c_mpppNGHmN_LZLLZdckkjTdDNnCZdTyxZg=w2400)
Title: Re: building the Frisco Standard Model
Post by: crueby on January 13, 2019, 12:15:31 AM
Quite a lot of work so far, great job!
Title: Re: building the Frisco Standard Model
Post by: gbritnell on January 13, 2019, 03:22:18 AM
While crankshafts look relatively simple there's a lot of careful setup and whittling to finish them. Just take your time and you'll get there.
gbritnell
Title: Re: building the Frisco Standard Model
Post by: Craig DeShong on January 13, 2019, 09:52:37 PM
Chris & George, thanks for your remarks.

George: Iíll agree, and Iím only making a two throw crank; I canít imagine the care and concentration to make one with eight or more throws as you (and others here) have done.

I can see the light at the end of the tunnel with this crankshaft now.  Mounted between centers (those center holes I drilled so long ago ;)), Iím starting to whittle on an outside throw side.
(https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/RAmYTEXmvRh6L6ekFyRvt918n6rnlFdq1VWjF_dMeAb0rqB7DL9n7C51eFLb9yB6k2iBa2E0pNg1Lq3gswriCis5iG7fblP6rxWKldAdugYT9-iI8YthFhBAENqzG7GbGEXBT_7Vwg=w2400)


With the outside throw side roughed out, Iím working one side of the shaft down.
(https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/opKWYrWGtGyPo2k4HjUftIh8cznlqgFk2o9nEKfUyicoKrNrFrfkSv_3iMEtfP4Z6AjjPAKqxxn1OAseoTNjEqkimhBETX0K5PoP07sJ_YfrWs8_bAtZE1h1ji7C1N4c6bIrHT0fgA=w2400)



Here I have the first shaft nearly complete.  I leave the first shaft a little over size, turn the other, then come back and finish this first one.  Maybe overkill, but I donít want a little material movement while Iím removing lots of material on the other shaft side to shift this side out of alignment.
(https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/MoLpAT8lvT4IPAlyuVNfuT2RCbFt_9bB_gW2bFEYPk-iyOIQZ54sYyvEhNaIDQJAd2-d8WuruKh8RbFqJu-OIyuCtTvM-Ix40vXaWLN0ZH0NFvGSqvh0CHElyqqKbQf3aDnpXaQcPg=w2400)


After turning the piece around in the lathe, Iím repeating the procedure on this final side.  Here, again, Iím roughing in the outside throw side.
(https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/Vaygdvc62oPR30QaU5JBNY8rJp1VjZPoBHloHa2tajk9pBytRGnI73aFU2rXPeGrT_nlLs-MisPTFlBm5A8gFjA4Vj-shZdkV3KDH1x4NUM_HAKH943Qh6IiOfspLRWWBHPUElFNfA=w2400)


With the outside throw side roughed in, Iím starting to work down this shaft side toward the final diameter.
(https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/LXXFBVxO-cYD-eN2T6FIaxBd_pDyODKlLeBLwdbrjFMBqZ7gNp2tqlAJ7YrQLsybcgZmCb9kCkWOYHaXfGciJCkujRJNVuz0KyfMQxW6vxZS1rbc2pbWVcNcvh2t5hk4du9_v5l03w=w2400)
Title: Re: building the Frisco Standard Model
Post by: Dave Otto on January 13, 2019, 10:22:11 PM
Coming along nicely Craig!

Dave
Title: Re: building the Frisco Standard Model
Post by: steamer on January 13, 2019, 10:25:24 PM
Yeah that is starting to clean up nice!!!

Terrifying at times isn't it..... :paranoia:
Title: Re: building the Frisco Standard Model
Post by: b.lindsey on January 13, 2019, 10:37:26 PM
Looks good to me Craig!! That thing is good sized too.

Bill
Title: Re: building the Frisco Standard Model
Post by: Craig DeShong on January 14, 2019, 12:22:03 AM
Terrifying at times isn't it..... :paranoia:

You betcha !  :o

The other thing I havenít mentioned yet is the way you get to practice your dance moves ;)

With that semi-square piece in the lathe, turning at around 200 RPM, there are over 13 red hot little curls of metal springing off the work piece each second.  The probability is low, but there are so many of them that occasionally mere quantity overcomes low probability and one of those red hot lathe tailings arcs up through the air and lands on your collar or the opening in your shirt  :naughty:, then finds its way down inside your shirt  :o.

As I said above, an opportunity to practice your dance moves. :embarassed: :mischief: :naughty:
Title: Re: building the Frisco Standard Model
Post by: steamer on January 14, 2019, 12:23:52 AM
Terrifying at times isn't it..... :paranoia:

You betcha !  :o

The other thing I havenít mentioned yet is the way you get to practice your dance moves ;)

With that semi-square piece in the lathe, turning at around 200 RPM, there are over 13 red hot little curls of metal springing off the work piece each second.  The probability is low, but there are so many of them that occasionally mere quantity overcomes low probability and one of those red hot lathe tailings arcs up through the air and lands on your collar or the opening in your shirt  :naughty:, then finds its way down inside your shirt  :o.

As I said above, an opportunity to practice your dance moves. :embarassed: :mischief: :naughty:

Ahyup! 8)
Title: Re: building the Frisco Standard Model
Post by: Brian Rupnow on January 14, 2019, 01:05:56 AM
I have an old arc welding helmet with the dark lens removed, only the clear lens left in it. Whenever I get into those red hot flying chip jobs I put it on. Looks silly as hell, but once you've had a red hot chip go down your shirt collar and set your chest hairs on fire it doesn't seem silly at all!!!
Title: Re: building the Frisco Standard Model
Post by: steamer on January 14, 2019, 01:51:34 AM
This style chip guard works pretty well too.
https://m.grainger.com/mobile/product/WESTWARD-Safety-Shield-2MZU9?breadcrumbCatId=19309
Dave
Title: Re: building the Frisco Standard Model
Post by: Craig DeShong on January 14, 2019, 10:04:37 PM
Thanks for those of you hanging in with me on this build, especially with this crankshaft fabrication; it was a long slogÖ but completed today (well, not really, I still need to cut the key ways)

Today was spent turning the two shafts down to their finished diameters.  I took my time with light cuts and probably made more passes than I needed, but after all that work I really didnít want to mess up here at the end.
(https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/cJbWkGYKBEuvYLw-npJjiiim-oaS6wggkbN76nEZiFH0y2Y3P9pj_U0FX1a7E-wGaIqHvjEho7jh3gNQf96ZTwIugi__Qk0zLPQN9S18dMiWNqHXQNGPM47vwnQELlfOUeaxsgxoZg=w2400)



And so, after cutting away a few pieces that were left over from the way in which I fabricated this crankshaft, and after filing and polishing away the tool marks, I give you a picture of the completed part.
(https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/5JpBPY3S_iwWBd2bAdOLhavgGp2n4hX2FKYbXQ_jiniUW-NRAnZ7r53_Y_SU0XeriObNAQqzCp7-vmWaLXBXPi8J7m2B566NMmbDwgmCPf8HApJd01RvtBrHBNieU8o5p2WjkviM2w=w2400)


Of course, the ďproof in the puddingĒ is to install the thing and see if it fits, and turns freely with no binding.
PeMf-lE_2Qw
Title: Re: building the Frisco Standard Model
Post by: Brian Rupnow on January 14, 2019, 10:32:55 PM
Very nice work Craig. I find that with crankshafts cut from solid that if you do end up with more runout than you like, you can put one end in the 3 jaw chuck and whack the other end around a bit with a dead blow hammer to get them running true. Crude, but effective.  Let me ask you a question about your previous hit and miss build. did you have an anti-backflow valve in the gas line, and if you did, what size was the ball.---Brian
Title: Re: building the Frisco Standard Model
Post by: Craig DeShong on January 14, 2019, 10:52:57 PM
Brian

With the Myers engine, the carburetor was built with an internal atmospheric valve.  The fuel fed into side of the valve seat so unless the engine was on an intake stroke, with the valve lifted to draw air (and fuel) the fuel flow was shut off.  With this arrangement I didn't need (or have) a one way valve in the fuel system. 
Title: Re: building the Frisco Standard Model
Post by: Ye-Ole Steam Dude on January 14, 2019, 11:21:48 PM
Hello Craig,

Wow, that is one heck of a crank, really great work :ThumbsUp: :headscratch:

Have a great day,
Thomas
Title: Re: building the Frisco Standard Model
Post by: steamer on January 15, 2019, 12:33:19 AM
Nicely done!!!

Dave
Title: Re: building the Frisco Standard Model
Post by: crueby on January 15, 2019, 12:57:47 AM
Beautiful!!
Title: Re: building the Frisco Standard Model
Post by: Johnmcc69 on January 15, 2019, 01:00:52 AM
 :ThumbsUp:
Nice work on the crank. You must be relieved that's over.

 John
Title: Re: building the Frisco Standard Model
Post by: b.lindsey on January 15, 2019, 02:03:02 PM
The video shows it well Craig. Turns over easily with just the right amount of resistance to "bed" itself in under running conditions. Nicely done!!

Bill
Title: Re: building the Frisco Standard Model
Post by: bent on January 15, 2019, 05:45:34 PM
Pretty cool! :popcorn:
Title: Re: building the Frisco Standard Model
Post by: flopearedmule on January 17, 2019, 02:02:43 AM
nice!  can't wait to see what's next?? :whoohoo:
Title: Re: building the Frisco Standard Model
Post by: Craig DeShong on January 24, 2019, 10:10:32 PM
Bill, John, Thomas, Brian, Dave, Chris, bent, Flopearedmule; thanks for your compliments and feedback.  Thanks again for the others stopping by from time to time to see my progress.

I got back from the Cabin Fever Expo (had a GREAT time) just in time for some abnormally cold weather; I also had some chores to do, so I didnít get back in the shop till today.

First on the agenda was boring the supplied gears to accept the engine shafts.  Here Iím boring the crankshaft gear.
(https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/dhbkcelTf7Z-IvVLnTJy5MeVyJnAhSLNcdTCNYMijMbYq4cC1GqqMgzqQBR-r7luRnttqvVf9cWNZ1Dm6-W-Bdj-VrLCHzkB7l-_gO43AV7IjXLz-MemV86429CtLg_7v0Xt9Q1RCg=w2400)


The helical angle on the camshaft gear is much less than that on the crankshaft gears.  The gear didnít seem to mount well in the 3-jaw chuck so I decided to make a fixture to hold it.  This is the fixture.  It has a shoulder which the gear rests upon and is slit so that the lathe chuck will compress the fixture and grip the gear.  This is the fixture (sorry for the blurry picture)
(https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/3LHv9IhWC-OHET-rQjNnm7ovdEYRDurEsAGjFt_5Z9w_78ZNTW7FV5Mym5oRbvlod2wL9YUA8SCNzA6Qleb6AII-H1ujkcH5iP7MV83dGRJxCOtbz8We5EgbmkSWkcU2ucljoGejVQ=w2400)



And here is the fixture and gear mounted in the lathe.
(https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/SRCxQ30RQRdCqR-DCr1hfUxSV-dF6SQbQjuSITcD4efirO1uaa4lXCz9UIeQjHyjizU5OJNAiB1eaHW24aeHYHvg5CXTFdOryVj4_Qt55G6lx1QxcVvP2bTmcBWmHtDBHDNujtARUA=w2400)


Here Iíve center drilled the gear, drilled the center, and am reaming the final diameter of ľ inch.  The drawings donít describe how this gear is attached to the camshaft (there is no keyway as with the crankshaft gear).  Iím thinking a press fit or just Locktite it to the shaft.  Any thoughts?  :help:
(https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/qLE0aGYhyJpTc5_uzKK2Eek6tuE0KMstPvB1_6DQA3ded5NtPRUz8SK1rfmNPuFEFEBe8KmjIvuMrHY8lEGK4iqITBMPx-Ck4JkIippq7RpT0NO5wrsxE0O4t33rTKgFqeTFB7-g4w=w2400)


I thought I took a photo of the operation of clearing space for the camshaft gear.  I guess I didnít because there wasnít one on the camera. :shrug: 

In this photo Iím fitting the gear.  The building notes indicate you should spot the hole for the lower bearing (there was no measurement given).  I did this by mounting the engine base to my mill, assembling the gear train, then rotating the crankshaft and letting the cam gear rotate on this drill center.  I moved the mill table in and out till the gear ran freely with little backlash.  This gave me the location to drill for the bottom bearing hole.  I zeroed the DRO on my mill to this location using the ABS index for the one camshaft and the INC index for the other.  This allowed me to relocate both these centers.
(https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/JuXcv_2Q4QF3aCT3x0hyFnFCh80XOKtp_elwZat_z5P6ii4LYOTEPaK-YeCz-2MFVPhYiap00mP5yZmqfT5lYeREo1XY5J8tlAwdJCMUhyAnpHsZ87R29W8XZAHILyBW9R0emh0OUQ=w2400)


Once the holes for the bottom bearings were drilled in the base, I attached the gear covers and center drilled, drilled, and reamed both gear covers using the pre-established DRO zero described above.
(https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/YgVY5lcrOV8h9piSKJSrsEh6V7tQhrblwYWE5d7_wtPyX_jT4E-AwRBdpyuidjWqUncLbbjlbrL88ViV2W1Vir9y_4P7u_zsGIr6QdkW9X4ePiv478xw7lXFIbAUE3rhZGuDX4X5ew=w2400)


With the gear covers drilled through, I could invert them in the mill vice, center on the hole, then mill clearance for the gear in the gear cover.  The building notes indicate that there is very little clearance and there is a risk of breaking through the casting in this operation.  I achieved the measurements given without a breakout. :cartwheel:
(https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/NuX9c53dJGFB2aFWAZ3uElbJ3vSFF-4TArxeYN6-_ingKnJX_C_zZ4xgvup_XO4Ol6ANiUh2NUhVA1D8s6-fZ5ZnYYL7ZFGGdCKLWl7dsGfvFUoBN_bJFljKFYKUA6_BywVYlU3AKw=w2400)


The drawings call for the steel camshaft to fit into a reamed hole in the engine base.  With the engine base being aluminum I just couldnít envision where an aluminum bearing would suffice.  Iím sure it probably works ok but I decided to oversize the hole and use a brass bearing instead.  Here Iím fabricating the bearing.  Iím using my new Arthur R Warner tooling I acquired at the Cabin Fever Expo.  I wanted to get some carbide tooling for turning flywheels and I kept walking by the Warner tooling booth and drooling; I finally bit.  The tooling comes standard with HSS inserts.  I also got some carbide inserts for the flywheels.
(https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/2oc1u4FJ522f9MxN6zK4M4quZr8luZ9GevR3hGAMphR5szU5_yfmF9ZWA6tRIuxAyFpE8-k8zm1YMsrs10067wx2Mss4WcdxX_97QJQz_DTaW-9DRN90NJ8AMhDSvf7e9Kjbec9N1g=w2400)

 
 Hard to see but here Iíve pressed the bearing into the engine base.  All ready to receive the ľ inch camshaft.
(https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/q0IVEknX7w6ifVUKQd2u5aBY0ww3UBrYs7h94C4zqzh_FwRnlUxYy9KTEXvA0J6VH7wTfKcC6SmbQgzx9IzSTDKjgfgz9O1rynyKhCljq4KqEux8iftDB1mK0ztz7lGobNwQgkMUOg=w2400)
Title: Re: building the Frisco Standard Model
Post by: steamer on January 24, 2019, 10:20:43 PM
Great work Craig!   I was going to suggest a toolmakers button with the OD a slip fit on the ID of the gear, but no need! that obviously worked great!

Dave
Title: Re: building the Frisco Standard Model
Post by: Art K on January 24, 2019, 11:21:29 PM
Craig,
It was great to meet you at Cabin Fever. Great progress on the crankshaft and helical gears.
Art
Title: Re: building the Frisco Standard Model
Post by: Craig DeShong on January 25, 2019, 12:00:08 AM
Art.
Yep, nice to associate a face with a name.  Hope you has as good a time as I did and hope your trip home was uneventfull.
Title: Re: building the Frisco Standard Model
Post by: Art K on January 25, 2019, 03:31:30 AM
Craig,
The drive back to my in laws was a wet but uneventful 30 minute drive. We have a friend staying at our house this week and he spent 20 minutes shoveling snow so he could park off the street. Then the neighbors grandson came out with the snow blower. I have to get mine running, probably just need to clean the plug, and not flood it next time. Hopefully it won't snow more before we get home Sunday.
Art
Title: Re: building the Frisco Standard Model
Post by: Roger B on January 25, 2019, 07:51:28 AM
That was quite an interesting way to set the centers for the helical gears  :ThumbsUp: I will be interested to see how the other end of the shaft is aligned  :thinking:
Title: Re: building the Frisco Standard Model
Post by: Craig DeShong on January 25, 2019, 01:32:26 PM
Roger
The building notes call for using 1/4 in. Drill rods, slightly longer than clearance allows; sharpening one end to a point, placing them in the bottom bearings, then easing the top casting down and tapping lightly to pick up a pin prick you can use for centering and drilling the top bearing.  We'll see how that goes when we get there.
Title: Re: building the Frisco Standard Model
Post by: Craig DeShong on January 28, 2019, 11:00:11 PM
Roger, Art, Dave; thanks for tuning in and commenting.  Thanks for you others that stop by to see whatís going on.

After a few days of other things that took me away from the shop; I had a full day today and made the most of it.

It was time to make the stanchions that support the cylinder and top end of the engine.  Here Iíve started forming the end of one; this end attaches to the cylinder casting. 
(https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/Dx83bp_wYEpP-9qwjw0xD43IePgaYqUl9kqiHLuz_ziXPjKHRe4VVdkTaQJR3akTH9kVWwEE_KpCSCJY8NNk_ExUqpWMFP1_lBYh3wrkggEjziy507Lig3j6i09hhTu7XFA8eNEzcg=w2400)


After cutting the piece to size and turning it around in the lathe Iím now forming the end that attaches to the engine base.
(https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/wMCk6herxTCGC6LJ6zx93vyaQIsNKW7FdjCVX8MLJ-zKFS9bmtiI7zJz2QYD8C405TQneE6MDq18payGz3-1EKKRhV-O7uuNKyGtwIXK6CDSyEMoLjZHId3A4BfM-YVIp6kPS5SBQQ=w2400)



With all four stanchions cut to length and their ends formed, itís time to put some threads on the ends.  These are 5/16th-18 threads.  I cut them mostly with the lathe, then use a re-threading die to finish. 
(https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/yEN6YAQcQ-pYWWf3WvmXuuUAU54JCqEDtV5mI4V1IykulzKbdhHUTWug0-vufH_a_5tXfteXJz6DoE9WtRseN6Pdr43Xm1lguNuNJtViOcpzdapX5yC4smLIzAQm7tVCvaXZBuly5g=w2400)


Finished and ready to install
(https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/qp79h8DKN3uqQ2CIqhMZa_YWR48BCd_F3yATiSTwWhGlOFcUCKXIRLRnxXYLbxhWe1eyinX-THe8cXChQCbdyej0IYBz4WR8bCkDCgJ3d9lDPLru46GKCB154K7elux3TJDOhELBtA=w2400)
(https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/wWwY4GW9hqbAYVcBcrAThFvQmqS0BAB8AcTpCfSoTs_kkH72cLFinfFSxu_IE3r95nFkKnNGFcGpZVwWD-DrTDgu_VstThg5fv85jnAVYhz2vh_nxH003C-PumBFy58OUO0vF6iGWQ=w2400)



Now Iím moving on to the cylinder block.   Iíve already faced it top and bottom to the correct dimension and I just finished drilling the holes that fit on the above stanchions.  Itís going to be a while till I do that however, there are lots of milling operations to be completed while I have this setup.
(https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/Ov4FtRd0a-zhxSl_oyCldC5b5LB78W8jo4xGv5hdXGpkfDI5TMlJePPqblPoAshaQKDQETFLxTXrlnG0fK0VeFhsbYI4km-n6Ium6jDSyOUorwo8prYYCEB3Tpf3ktUh6vabu_B-gg=w2400)


Here Iím boring the cylinder for the cylinder liners.  One side is complete.
(https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/KvSLqqN9QI9_ed8ZoYgwv7I1KJ_pOEwgC83xjxUHXsYQJ7R-tKsseEP336nqslo7y2aLFA6bE6b6hYHebkC3zbJMcg-j94IxW5ZW4xwd75V0IzX7s1Ia5smeTJqvAxd-XzW8IUNt7Q=w2400)


And by the end of the day, the other side is complete.
(https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/VqIKBwduv-ZtFbOCbmjSEHTKl6RAOqcbq-iMZYR-hCptZX4EZ6sGsG0hKKcIV-DwN_XkzBhWKBx-EXiqdZ9hgGRrMDvm52v4bj1be28TNpZQxG-AYTVFOvJ2BRGJZ6nD5aUbvr1ClQ=w2400)


Complete is a misnomer.  I have yet to bore out the center of each cylinder so that after Iíve pressed in the cast iron cylinder liner a space is formed for the water jacket.  Iím hoping to get at that tomorrow.
Title: Re: building the Frisco Standard Model
Post by: cheepo45 on January 28, 2019, 11:27:55 PM
Looks great!
 Scott
Title: Re: building the Frisco Standard Model
Post by: Brian Rupnow on January 28, 2019, 11:33:47 PM
Very nice Craig. You make it look easy.---Brian
Title: Re: building the Frisco Standard Model
Post by: Dave Otto on January 28, 2019, 11:46:11 PM
Nice work and progress Craig.

Dave
Title: Re: building the Frisco Standard Model
Post by: Craig DeShong on January 29, 2019, 10:42:33 PM
Scott and Dave, thanks for dropping by and thanks for your compliments. 

Today was a boring day (yea, Iíve been planning to say that since yesterday ;)).   I spent the day boring out the water jacket chambers. This is the tool I used.  I didnít have enough material (on either cylinder) to bore these jackets to the 2.125 inch diameter specified in the drawings; I would have bored through the cylinder block.  I chose a jacket thickness of 1/8th inch which left enough material on the cylinder wall so a strong grip wonít crush it but yet enough width for cooling water.  This should be ok.  Iíve heard that this engine really needs cooling water as the cylinder heats up quickly without it.
(https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/tqfQIm82p17cWBP0-4Zb7_koa2NLf6KviMvEAZPFCHJFILfS7wRPVdUNVb_TbpATTH--lEbnyTvj_N-xUvqxptAv7FRRg1mx8Hwy2rw3scl-NAhxgitHDs1RobDbG7r4LLmbARFlXw=w2400)

 

 Iíll give a helpful hint :old: to someone planning on building this model, a detail that they may not notice.  DO bore the water jackets to a depth below the water inlet boss.  In this ďprogress so farĒ photo that would be the drilled parallelogram shaped boss on the right of the cylinders in the below photo) BUT NOT to a depth of the cylinder oiler inlets (the three circular bosses just below the water inlet boss.  Water must flow into the water jacket but water cannot flow into the drilled channel from the oilers to the cylinder (havenít drilled them yet).
(https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/JvoXs2nX0Srq4X_aJYMNJ2vQMfbQ6hfbELuSB-0lgdg0rPwJ9asCTsY3aNrQV-O0JVlPasoIg96Qjh2YRyK5WyzRNlPayS-KZ5d3K1GOAYVIEfvcjcS7AMCBwuW6t81WtkdeEyazTQ=w2400)
Title: Re: building the Frisco Standard Model
Post by: steamer on January 29, 2019, 10:51:22 PM
Coming along beautiful Craig!   Got a drawing of the oiler/water passage you can share?

Dave
Title: Re: building the Frisco Standard Model
Post by: Craig DeShong on January 30, 2019, 12:10:00 AM
Dave

The drawings are copyrighted with a "do not duplicate" statement so no, probably shouldn't repro here.  I mentioned this because from the drawings, it isn't obvious, I nearly missed it myself.
Title: Re: building the Frisco Standard Model
Post by: Art K on January 30, 2019, 03:24:30 AM
Craig,
Making good progress, and good catch on the depth of the coolant jacket. Sort of have to know the intent of the design even if the prints don't specify it.
Art
Title: Re: building the Frisco Standard Model
Post by: Jasonb on January 30, 2019, 07:09:13 AM
It's starting to look more like an engine.

You have mentioned several times about the tight fits and castings being a bit small. Was this engine originally done in cast iron as it does look like the castings may have all shrunk more than originally allowed for in the patterns? You can easily see it looking at the top of the cylinder casting where the two bores look to be to far apart for the shape of the casting
Title: Re: building the Frisco Standard Model
Post by: Craig DeShong on January 30, 2019, 02:05:07 PM
I was wondering that too Brian.  I was talking to a friend at Cabin Fever who is building this model but is further along.  He stated he ran out of metal on one if the heads and had to have the casting built up to make the tolerances.  I sure hope that doesn't happen in my case.  I'll be studying this carefully when I get to the heads.  Nice to be for-warned.
Title: Re: building the Frisco Standard Model
Post by: Dave Otto on January 30, 2019, 03:52:52 PM
As far as I know this engine and  any of the other Ed Banke models were only offered in aluminum.

Dave
Title: Re: building the Frisco Standard Model
Post by: Craig DeShong on February 01, 2019, 11:18:53 PM
Mystery solved... but not to my liking.  Some math shows the distance between the crankshaft journal centers to be 2.100 inches.  The drawing gives a distance between cylinder centers to be 2.256 inches.  The cylinder drawing is in error, so I have bored the cylinder block with both cylinders .078 offset from where they should be :cussing:.  I'm hoping Bob Banke will provide some guidance.
Title: Re: building the Frisco Standard Model
Post by: Dave Otto on February 01, 2019, 11:32:59 PM
I'm going to check my drawings.

Dave
Title: Re: building the Frisco Standard Model
Post by: Jo on February 02, 2019, 07:42:39 AM
At least you know what the problem is, I am surprised no one had spotted this earlier and let the designer know  :wallbang:  If you are the first to let them know you have a good justification for a replacement casting...  if others have already told them and they failed to correct matters  :rant:

Rebore slightly over size and make over size liners?  :noidea: Good luck...

Jo
Title: Re: building the Frisco Standard Model
Post by: Jasonb on February 02, 2019, 08:07:12 AM
What does the drawing for the head show? That may confirm if it is the crank or cylinder drawing that is wrong. Also look at the con rods, I've made engines where the big end is wider one side than the other which affects the offset.

Does not look like you have the option to go oversize as the water passage is so close and you have already said you could not go to drawing size. Maybe a liner with an offset bore if that does not leave on side too thin.
Title: Re: building the Frisco Standard Model
Post by: gbritnell on February 02, 2019, 12:23:45 PM
Hi Craig,
Hopefully it was never brought to the designers attention. If it was and not corrected shame on him. I would think a replacement casting would be in order but that doesn't help all the work you've done so far.
Please keep us informed.
gbritnell
Title: Re: building the Frisco Standard Model
Post by: b.lindsey on February 02, 2019, 02:05:30 PM
Craig, that can sure take the wind out of your sails!!  Very interested in what you find out from the designer and hopefully they will rectify the issue to your satisfaction.

Bill
Title: Re: building the Frisco Standard Model
Post by: Craig DeShong on February 02, 2019, 05:55:15 PM
Thanks for your comments and suggestions.

I'm not concerned regarding the time I've invested in this cylinder casting, it is what it is and being retired, I have lots of time to re-do if need be.

The 2.100 dimension is correct I believe, were the crankshaft any longer it would not fit within the crankcase.

There are two separate heads so using them as a reference to get the 'right' measurement is not an option.

With the head bolts just skimming the cylinder liner, I would need to fabricate a liner thick enough to contain the head bolts, then cut the water jacket into the liner.  This is possible in theory, not sure how well the engine would hold together with the heads attached to the cylinder liner only?

A Possability might be to offset the arms of the connecting rods on the bearings (so the arm doesn't protrude from the center of the journal but rather the edge).  I believe the geometry would work.  This would offset the pistons so they would line up center bore as they should.  Since each cylinder has a separate head this shouldn't't be a problem.  With the heads located .078 in. Further out than designed,  This would also offset the vertical side shafts further into the head casting.  I'd need to look long and hard into yhis to see what problems that might cause.

I'd prefer to get another cylinder casting, even if I end up paying for it.

I sent an email to Bob Banke few days ago and am waiting a reply.  I might need to call and I will if I don't hear back soon.
Title: Re: building the Frisco Standard Model
Post by: Dave Otto on February 02, 2019, 07:36:50 PM
Well hopefully Bob will give you a new casting. It is amazing with the number of these engines that have been built that this hasn't been corrected; my drawings are the same as yours.
I would be interested the here what Bob has to say about this if anything.

Dave
Title: Re: building the Frisco Standard Model
Post by: Jasonb on February 02, 2019, 07:39:52 PM
I did read another post on here where mention was made of two sets of drawings, the later being debugged. I can Understand Dave having an old set if they have been under the bench for a while but Craig's should be upto date.
Title: Re: building the Frisco Standard Model
Post by: Craig DeShong on February 02, 2019, 11:53:40 PM
I'm not sure how many of them have been built.  Mine is number 41.  You have to figure that some of those that were bought are still sitting on the owner's shelf.

  I have a friend who bought a casting set when tbe engine was first available.  He had problems with the head castings but l believe that has been addressed by the time I purchased mine.  My drawings refer to "old" head castings and well ad " new" castings.

He told me he saw the drawing error I experienced and adjusted before he machined the cylinders. (Would have been nice if he mentioned it to me!).  He can't remember he passed that along to Bob or not.
Title: Re: building the Frisco Standard Model
Post by: steamer on February 03, 2019, 12:11:05 AM
Hi Craig,

So was it the crank drawing or the cylinder drawing that was amiss?

Dave
Title: Re: building the Frisco Standard Model
Post by: Craig DeShong on February 03, 2019, 01:16:03 AM
Must be the cylinder.  If I allowed 2.256 inches between the centers of the two crankshaft throws, the crankshaft would not fit in the base and the dimensions on the base would not allow it.

Also, if I allowed 2.1 inches between cylinder centers, the two bores would have centered on the casting much better.
Title: Re: building the Frisco Standard Model
Post by: steamer on February 03, 2019, 01:18:27 AM
Must be the cylinder.  If I allowed 2.256 inches between the outside throws of the crankshaft it would not fit in the base and the dimensions on the base would not allow it.

OK then....been thinking about this.  I think I'd rather start the cylinder casting over, than everything below it.

Dave
Title: Re: building the Frisco Standard Model
Post by: Craig DeShong on February 14, 2019, 11:44:11 PM
And then there were two!!   :whoohoo:
(https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/TEFUWd2uGRnhvLCq_7VXTn26qIsgql-oy1sI9CE0Ms-dEnhC9-wh7amSFfLtE5u90wvzrLT0pnatjX_PZfNsoNHMNDdZVWHctgOlDSdIF2D_R3ipUKQXo3cTf-5Zx0QXC3qn31a3Hg=w2400)


If you remember with the last update, I had uncovered an error in the drawings and was trying to determine what to do about it.  I finally decided that another casting was the only solution so I contacted Bob Banke.   We had an interesting conversation.

Bob informed me that he had sold around 60 casting sets for the Frisco Standard and I was the first person to mention that the drawings might have an error in regard to the cylinder dimension.  He wouldnít really confirm that the drawings were in error, but stated that he wanted the people that bought his models to have a good experience and if I needed another casting, he would send me one; free of charge.

I thanked him profusely; then pressed him regarding the measurement that was in error.  His response was that he no longer had access to the drawings.  The template used for the drawings appear to be a ďSolid WorksĒ template (thanks Brian) so I assume he means he no longer has access to a copy of ďSolid WorksĒ to make a change. (The drawings were signed by a ďW. AustinĒ and possibly Mr. Austin is no longer available?)     

The take away from all this is that I got a new casting (free of charge) and the dimension on the drawing probably isnít going to get changed; so those in the future, who purchase this model, might fall into the same trap I did if they arenít attentive (as I was not).

Before you take what Iím saying the wrong way, I have a lot of respect for Bob.  He sincerely wants his customers to be happy: even to the extent of supplying the occasional replacement casting for free. I would purchase another of his models without a second thought (and probably will since he has another I really like and as Jo would say: (paraphrase) ďHow can you live without a cache of castings to build?Ē.

So, while all this was going on, I have one of the cast iron sleeves in my big lathe and If I remove it, Iíll never get the rough stock centered again, so there it will stay until I get the outside diameter for the sleeve (after I bore the replacement cylinders).

I thought Iíd start on the connecting rods.  The bottom crankshaft journals are brass castings with steel rods attached.  The drawings call for the casting to be drilled for the bolts and then cut through the center.
 
I attempted the cut through the center with a .018 slitting saw but the casting seized the saw and shattered it (actually two of them). :hammerbash:  I ended up buggering the job :facepalm:, but fortunately there was enough material in the casting to clean up the rough center so all is well. :insane:

If anyone can tell me how I should have split this casting in two, Iíd appreciate it.  With some things, Iím still quite the novice. :help: 

Here are the castings, complete and ready to receive the steel shafts.
(https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/xbyuJjM41eMJS0d1NC9CqyFskyODYdMdVVYgsrZK_5VgKUpTftTHXj3ltRbbU2uit8ul8827sIT9rixhkCCVPoErPPNLKgIcpKzZGY76LzIMWW4flJu7PaF2F1D6Sbmz-_r-IsgOTg=w2400)


On with the steel part.  After cutting a piece of stock to size Iím forming the wrist pin journal with my rotary milling head. (I really love this thing. :Love:)
(https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/Rjq0eybjQpWqlyT_STiMZaOEoJ93SaK5-3KJkMjCrVn5Z7enBoddjYbuJVPF0LxpGxAQiPvKJJNQFa0W-LPszPdeV0sQCiZNl4h6lRAO0lrvqWZqDXLaaM1DtnAL-i4A2dESxIddVg=w2400)



With my big lathe tied up, the connecting rods are small enough I can use my tired old 9 inch Southbend which Iím doing here.
(https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/O754qDKWOQ86PfaQgYj2BL3tfEWnqNZ_fqM9RpAzMeo4BIwNYaxECfe11sL5lT72deweHQ-VYhfrH0QS4KddSr3AjhyMeGWzDaXDxzx74imYlmP7wlyFWTG3Zr9VpeAQCcPW6kk-KA=w2400)


And here is how I left things at the close of the day; working down the diameter of the shaft.
(https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/7FmNUWT0HH3VMBFe6wc7Hcg4N6OdUcH5FQOx-MnGVeBZgCyIn5RDqOEYNqZsH-iHx3qciJGN1tmZmomsBzTg0x4Ae5WX1u3emhbU3pTMknvYwcnvJdO9XXZ8bUlZVixQFCJR7szHTw=w2400)
Title: Re: building the Frisco Standard Model
Post by: steamer on February 15, 2019, 12:00:27 AM
Oh a VOlstro!     Love that head....that and the head that BP made that lets you get around corners and stuff....those are cool!

that casting is a challenge...gripping in the vise with the part sitting in some soft aluminum or lead flashing so it doesn't move around, and saw cutting it would be my first choice.

Dave
Title: Re: building the Frisco Standard Model
Post by: Craig DeShong on February 15, 2019, 12:13:10 AM
Dave.  Holding the casting wasn't a problem.  The casting was solid (before boring it for the crankshaft journal).  My problem was that the casting kept closing down on the slitting saw, seizing it, and jamming it in the cut slot.  I was using a very slow speed, around 150 RPM.  I guess heat was the culprit but I thought I was going slow enough and was using Plenty of cutting oil.

It was a block of brass around one half inch by one inch cross section.
Title: Re: building the Frisco Standard Model
Post by: Brian Rupnow on February 15, 2019, 12:15:43 AM
Very interesting. Solidworks is great, but it is horribly, outrageously expensive. If you aren't using it professionally, there is no way in Hell you could justify it for a hobby. If the creator of this engine had a Solidworks guy draw up the plans, and now for some reason he no longer has access to the Solidworks guy, then you're right---he couldn't change the drawings. I quit paying for yearly updates (at $1800 a pop) in 2015, since being semi retired I could no longer justify the expense. And there are compatibility issues. I can open and work with anything up to and including 2015, but can not open anything created after 2015---And people with the newer versions can not save any of their files to any year prior to their current license.
Title: Re: building the Frisco Standard Model
Post by: steamer on February 15, 2019, 01:11:18 AM
Dave.  Holding the casting wasn't a problem.  The casting was solid (before boring it for the crankshaft journal).  My problem was that the casting kept closing down on the slitting saw, seizing it, and jamming it in the cut slot.  I was using a very slow speed, around 150 RPM.  I guess heat was the culprit but I thought I was going slow enough and was using Plenty of cutting oil.

It was a block of brass around one half inch by one inch cross section.

Ahh   got to wonder if its under stress.   Perhaps a cycle to red heat under the torch before you start might get the stress out.

Title: Re: building the Frisco Standard Model
Post by: crueby on February 15, 2019, 01:52:20 AM
Dave.  Holding the casting wasn't a problem.  The casting was solid (before boring it for the crankshaft journal).  My problem was that the casting kept closing down on the slitting saw, seizing it, and jamming it in the cut slot.  I was using a very slow speed, around 150 RPM.  I guess heat was the culprit but I thought I was going slow enough and was using Plenty of cutting oil.

It was a block of brass around one half inch by one inch cross section.

Ahh   got to wonder if its under stress.   Perhaps a cycle to red heat under the torch before you start might get the stress out.
With brass bar stock, an hour at 500f in the oven will stress relieve it without taking away the hardness like taking it to red heat will. Don't know if the same is true of a brass casting, seems like it would be.
Title: Re: building the Frisco Standard Model
Post by: Jasonb on February 15, 2019, 07:04:58 AM
Good outcome, suppose he could just write the revision onto the printed drawing before sending them out or add it to any build notes, don't need access to the original for that.
Title: Re: building the Frisco Standard Model
Post by: Jo on February 15, 2019, 08:37:11 AM
And then there were two!!   :whoohoo:
(https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/TEFUWd2uGRnhvLCq_7VXTn26qIsgql-oy1sI9CE0Ms-dEnhC9-wh7amSFfLtE5u90wvzrLT0pnatjX_PZfNsoNHMNDdZVWHctgOlDSdIF2D_R3ipUKQXo3cTf-5Zx0QXC3qn31a3Hg=w2400)


If you remember with the last update, I had uncovered an error in the drawings and was trying to determine what to do about it.  I finally decided that another casting was the only solution so I contacted Bob Banke. 
.....
Bob wouldnít really confirm that the drawings were in error, but stated that he wanted the people that bought his models to have a good experience and if I needed another casting, he would send me one; free of charge.


Good outcome it is always nice to buy castings from reputable suppliers  :ThumbsUp:

I think you need to buy that other set of desirable castings from him so that you have adequate casting fondling time  :mischief:

Jo
Title: Re: building the Frisco Standard Model
Post by: Craig DeShong on February 19, 2019, 12:15:08 AM
Dave, Dave, Brian, Chris, Jason, Jo; thanks for your advice and comments. 

Finished up the lathe work on one of the connecting rods
(https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/H0c2RrMSON1q7vD_Z498E_EXL6GmHtLWmEY08uyRQGldZ8kGXp8WOm--tgOafHjmfFoZw1oA47M8cWhvqNhygNs0W2U7i2OPos6mwuVP12ToUaWAMvWIhxmTE37OrEuygq3I9YpwkA=w2400)

but held off with the other.  I really wanted to get back to where I was with this cylinder casing and after a few days work, hereís the result.
(https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/Vt8CHSO7ueyisSzdTvUpVtRiFQJZ3S8JD20hNx7LtL_xuUfSOUaIiRmXQx40jFu3lWfiGQgCUkRrhEodjeV0ZDwiytvCwa8xRIP4uXKvhXQR1Byt2Fft4sNVcfc5wyxHzwWVixSACw=w2400)

Everyoneís been so nice, but many of you MUST be thinking it: so Iíll say it.  ďYouíd think that when the guy started boring the cylinders, and the bores were SO FAR OFF CENTER IN THE CASTING AND WERE SO FAR OUT OF ALIGNMENT WITH THE CORES, he would have checked the dimension????Ē  Yep, youíd think wouldnít ya; well live and learn; wonít make that mistake again.
So as you can see, using the correct dimension, the cylinder bores center nicely in the casting.  Now I can finish the cylinder liners, one of which has been waiting patiently in the lathe, partially finished, since the beginning of this cylinder dimension fiasco.
Title: Re: building the Frisco Standard Model
Post by: Art K on February 19, 2019, 12:28:45 AM
Craig,
Good to see the new cylinder turn out so well. Enough beating up on your self, by the time I see the photo it's to late anyways
Art
Title: Re: building the Frisco Standard Model
Post by: steamer on February 19, 2019, 12:38:29 AM
Dave, Dave, Brian, Chris, Jason, Jo; thanks for your advice and comments. 


Everyoneís been so nice, but many of you MUST be thinking it: so Iíll say it.  ďYouíd think that when the guy started boring the cylinders, and the bores were SO FAR OFF CENTER IN THE CASTING AND WERE SO FAR OUT OF ALIGNMENT WITH THE CORES, he would have checked the dimension????Ē  Yep, youíd think wouldnít ya; well live and learn; wonít make that mistake again.
So as you can see, using the correct dimension, the cylinder bores center nicely in the casting.  Now I can finish the cylinder liners, one of which has been waiting patiently in the lathe, partially finished, since the beginning of this cylinder dimension fiasco.


 :lolb:   Hey Craig....don't think you're the only one who's ever done it!....WE'VE ALL DONE IT....if you never make a mistake...you probably haven't done anything!...

Want to see my collection of con rods for the Wallaby?    I'm looking for a fixture I can turn them into..... 8)

Carry on son Carry on!!!!   :popcorn:
Title: Re: building the Frisco Standard Model
Post by: Craig DeShong on February 20, 2019, 09:49:30 PM
Dave: not beating myself up over this, just very disappointed I didnít catch an error that I probably should have.

Moving on.

Yesterday I finished up the first cylinder liner and installed it.  Here I'm about to part it of the base sock. (https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/AE1UlP0yaiwvMs9OL7AL04yIUXnfWDw8nw04bbAAplimdUKYJqE4GoltCxp42ZSAPi_DYfJ4crWvm_yfZWhG_7sWqKljgN8uKHe3YuLyRrCfyRA9p_4V4GKP0amATuQFLTUxy9jEhg=w2400)


Today I did likewise with the second.  I used a .001 inch interference fit and the liners pressed into place a bit harder than I thought they would; still they fit the cylinder bores nicely.  When I blow into the water inlet and close of the two water outlets I donít feel any leaks.
(https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/OBpW6UCMZYXv-h4IQHdNLACmI78FAbXx9ohvgr519jRkuCJjC52Xqwm1PMOsrL-laBP4dNxwLVrk-ZWkmCM_2t3YD629pXeFUehgCr2-oemjbkIiUbXOISiKMAuM0dTqwSNtFRoa7g=w2400)
Title: Re: building the Frisco Standard Model
Post by: steamer on February 20, 2019, 11:27:24 PM
Dave: not beating myself up over this, just very disappointed I didnít catch an error that I probably should have.

Moving on.



Welcome to the club!

Looking good man!
Title: Re: building the Frisco Standard Model
Post by: b.lindsey on February 21, 2019, 12:18:12 AM
Looking great now Craig.  Just a little hitch, but good to hear the casting issue was resolved with such good service. Onward and upward now.

Bill
Title: Re: building the Frisco Standard Model
Post by: steamer on February 21, 2019, 12:27:46 AM
Looking great now Craig.  Just a little hitch, but good to hear the casting issue was resolved with such good service. Onward and upward now.

Bill

That is a sweet looking engine!

Dave
Title: Re: building the Frisco Standard Model
Post by: 10KPete on February 21, 2019, 02:17:48 AM
Oh, that's lookin' sweet! I like the liners and I'm curious how thick the walls are? The look thin....

 :ThumbsUp: :ThumbsUp:

 :popcorn: :popcorn:

Pete 
Title: Re: building the Frisco Standard Model
Post by: Craig DeShong on February 21, 2019, 02:36:35 AM
Pete
You can see the liner has a shoulder at the top to prevent the liner from working down the cylinder bore.  The shoulder is 7/8th inch long.  With the casting overbored in the center to form the water jacket, the liner is in contact with the casting for only around one inch on top and around another inch at the bottom.

The liner is 4.155 inch in length and the wall thickness at the bottom is 1/16th inch, at the top, a bit more.
Title: Re: building the Frisco Standard Model
Post by: 10KPete on February 21, 2019, 04:07:00 AM
Thanks, Craig! I would never have thought a cast iron liner could be that thin. Especially direct cooled.
Learn somethin' every day!

Cheers!

Pete
Title: Re: building the Frisco Standard Model
Post by: Roger B on February 21, 2019, 11:14:51 AM
Good progress Craig  :ThumbsUp:  :ThumbsUp:  :wine1:

Pete, the liners on my 20mm bore twin are 1.5mm thick and will have direct cooling.
Title: Re: building the Frisco Standard Model
Post by: Craig DeShong on February 21, 2019, 02:20:56 PM
Iím looking at the drawings for the pistons and, really, I need your opinion.  Here is a segment of the drawing:
(https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/Ic_0uuNpD2qUUNh5J7GeicX2XlS-_YBD6bLNoJNM__1qb3J87V-NqkSELLUDP2TplMiIlogaG7qvYYoJ-AAhb6aOh-VCEPgEYh7sTcaaSx606P72pviPvS_cgscn4C7fNnYLnNmshw=w2400)


The supplied material is a cast iron round.  The drawing specifies that you bore out the top of the piston (I assume to reduce the weight), then silver solder in a round disk to seal the top surface.  The buildersí notes specify that after this is done, you are to turn the piston to size and form the ring groves.

To me, this seems a bit convoluted when you could just make the piston directly out of aluminum (with a solid top) and still end up with a lighter piston.  Since the crankshaft has no counter weights, I would think a lighter, aluminum piston might be preferred.  Iíve made lots of aluminum pistons for IC engines and had no trouble with them.

Your thoughts ?  :help:
Title: Re: building the Frisco Standard Model
Post by: Brian Rupnow on February 21, 2019, 02:26:05 PM
Either piston will work. The piston has rings on it, so the piston can be made .001 to.002" undersized to account for differential heat expansion between the aluminum piston and cast iron sleeve.
Title: Re: building the Frisco Standard Model
Post by: Craig DeShong on February 22, 2019, 10:41:45 PM
Pete, Roger, Brian; thanks for your comments and input.  Thanks for those silently following along also.

I decided to make the pistons out of aluminum.  I have the stock and this way I donít need to silver solder them together (have I mentioned that I ABHOR silver soldering.. basically because I canít do it well?).

Any hoo, here I am, gleefully turning a blank of aluminum to the OD of the piston.
(https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/TbYUtapT4cA-VUe-LKaTPaJyMomUpEa8BloRSrbm3B4rgO4uE-PiRrVGfSkxR92P1P-fRr0U6NwVHG-hzUNdOSxkiFSbbdwTKugrgNNSOFZIR5_qm-N8za_jBKaN5ShB8wB0cofbZg=w2400)


Cutting the ring groves.  I have a friend who was walking with me around the Cabin Fever Expo a few years ago.  Heís a great modeler, so when he talks I tend to listen.  As we were walking by the Arthur Warner booth he pointed out a set of slitting tools and said ďYou need thoseĒ.  At the time I couldnít really see a use for them but Iíve learned to listen.  He was right they REALLY do come in handy from time to time, like for cutting these piston ring groves.
(https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/r2xDlwD5rHQ6CsiYNMviyPNktshtY0sIBn6fLHCnThbjIzWXQTVlxAlIo7RD8WTor9aSWhn-m98P1kQ4a-ICrzuyE38_fMhNQmEP4AWyxdPJrUqGlozFEZm-r5zER8bHrInRbL9m1Q=w2400)


Now with the piece parted from the stock and turned around in the lathe, Iím facing the piston to the correct length.
(https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/ydMpzhA9isavbCrGBNv_LrhgPLVVJTWqeJAtXqGaciZVBSL-8IEsRMJRYJMclsGecrIXF8BR7PI-h2UZyrClItsoY9oB-lp6BrDD9h9Mm6vkhJdV-RsQ3qBka-3mUJRd3TzCWNdysA=w2400)


In this photo Iím forming the skirt.
(https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/nFwMKzuf8zhzVzTaVRKYZR8iaBPCxe-UF4kNEU_cxsDbAnJuhBpN8SN5xcWFCKhE9EbY6KZ8kbofoTJk7fLVQbbkAxxPqAHzbpUR1pzNEFQD_RlaGq2OgOHrNDeaguRqdPDOUpbHng=w2400)


Time to move to the mill and drill and ream the hole for the wrist pin
(https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/5H9f1uU1iW3VQnz5iXSDUbAzWscPT-1uojx6bOSU1cYH68ArgwZ1sfkkN-rbENEL5eYg4k20BifbxIB0V3vDDspJ5EtlESOERMYC7HIfynPU6xqYkNVtpF7CCZyuNAGR_zgTwYxmPQ=w2400)

Iím hoping I will wrap up these pistons tomorrow.
Title: Re: building the Frisco Standard Model
Post by: steamer on February 22, 2019, 11:53:41 PM
Looks Awesome Craig!

Dave
Title: Re: building the Frisco Standard Model
Post by: Craig DeShong on February 23, 2019, 09:44:49 PM
Thanks for the comment Dave.

qFALsmERyxU
Got the connecting rods, rings, and pistons installed.  Everything goes up and down and round and round as it should.   :whoohoo:
Title: Re: building the Frisco Standard Model
Post by: Ye-Ole Steam Dude on February 23, 2019, 10:17:24 PM
Hello Craig,

Looking beautiful and it is coming along quite well. Great to see all the parts together and in motion on your video.

Have a great day,
Thomas

Title: Re: building the Frisco Standard Model
Post by: 10KPete on February 23, 2019, 11:31:28 PM
Nice!  :ThumbsUp:
 :popcorn:

Pete
Title: Re: building the Frisco Standard Model
Post by: Art K on February 24, 2019, 04:14:27 AM
Craig,
Looks great, everything goes round and round and up and down. :DrinkPint: I'll drink to that.
Art
Title: Re: building the Frisco Standard Model
Post by: Craig DeShong on February 25, 2019, 11:31:41 PM
Thomas, Pete, Art; thanks for your comments.  Thanks also for those silently following along.

I started working on the heads today.  These are irregular shaped castings with no really good way to hold them.  I decided to file some flats to give me some purchase on the casting and then milled a flat surface on the bottom (that mates the top of the cylinders).  Once this was attained I outside bored the cylinder protrusion.  I would have preferred to do this on the lathe, however I couldnít really figure out how to hold the casting and align it properly.  On the mill I could run my indicator back and forth and get a reasonable alignment of this irregular surface.
(https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/CYerag5TazM1HoymlLpXy1Ta6G11taUIE4MbMnicZWKJkvPpkvZPnrdppqVHdXb9EJSRjXMwsTYpkl_YGu3SPSTW-oDMXyFYbNs0V2PmeU3nugFaEA1aQcRLhRwdEDLHcn0Hyi8uyw=w2400)


The two heads are mirror images of each other; hereís the same operation on the other head.
(https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/FxdtAQPfLuHYLZvxB8D8eJT8jpZk33N52_mCyH2u4zrc6DEuRkdXF0f64mycjPsHXvJhAfkmW5_Qup-guRpyKWqCPKRsxj6nFlaSoPLOS9e-joORgyE6pyUBVuDxHdIqpi6DU6kgHA=w2400)


With a flat surface to align the casting, I scribed a line through the center of the cylinder bore and in a straight line with the front-back orientation of the casting.  This allowed me to mill the flat for the intake but more importantly, one of the two datum references for all the future measurements for machining this casting.
(https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/vnPXKWzoom_fkeyQsT9JMlrOd81BHC9JlK0ZE24WZ8mUzjST2SjhfITLpSydT9GzhLxd3M53bC5KxtyHpdkEFPSAL0FEOtlDukK-GLLUss3C2Q08F-S-XkTvgt6QNEi9gVly_4OKtA=w2400)


With the two datum references established I could locate the cylinder center from the top of the casting.   This allows me to locate and drill the head mount bolt holes.  The drawings indicate these should be drilled at the center of boss.  I wanted to verify that these holes wouldnít pierce the cylinder liner.  I decided I wanted each hole center should be at least .950 inches from the cylinder centerline.  This allowed the cylinder bolt to be located well within the aluminum casting so it would not interfere with the cylinder liner.  I did have to offset a few bolt holes away from center of casting to achieve this.
(https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/Nm-gq1z3auHdJi-JmshheY4eGJwhMkgKFzqpf2gT75pUjLBXsI6f8lo8n1Y2VcMN2mI4X12nFlnTirRSzZJbkOW6EFdzPlys09jzLbi3JEp7q5AjIBOlqkiy-n3HOo7KxmElIe7vQw=w2400)


With the heads drilled for the head bolts, I affixed them to the cylinder casting and spotted the bolt hole locations.
(https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/M_9oMXnnRbpaMGlaF2tzra546j96umLWc_9FJmvK6DyjsqnOYzLY7Z-UEVQAQiSPIV5CdfYckgMJcMPaqQJ77h4AcVbafEZrJ7I6EafMLVe_XFCavNQ4-CpOjmvMgjJxCXKjTPx2pg=w2400)


With the bolt hole locations spotted I could drill and thread the cylinder for the head bolts.
(https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/S0_6EOEyLRmyMZc6XdMewkhyH4TtjuZXFQsYvzKFmhOTnhcIektNssvZRz98QKhzLwV9sm2QojGtNj8RXH-saSxS3Olazelinc3WRhphgnLo3OgiJw1EqU5y8FewVNy9NEXsNK3nIA=w2400)
Title: Re: building the Frisco Standard Model
Post by: Dave Otto on February 26, 2019, 12:27:37 AM
Looks good so far Craig, hopefully the rest of the machine work on the heads goes ok for you.

Dave
Title: Re: building the Frisco Standard Model
Post by: steamer on February 26, 2019, 12:33:39 AM
I was afraid to ask when you posted the up and down and round and round vid.   But the heads DO reach down inside.   pwew!    8)

Dave
Title: Re: building the Frisco Standard Model
Post by: crueby on February 26, 2019, 01:02:41 AM
Craig, I have never outside bored like that, does it require a cutter with edge on other side, or running the mill backwards?
Title: Re: building the Frisco Standard Model
Post by: Jo on February 26, 2019, 08:17:56 AM
 :thinking:

Positioning those heads bolt holes looked to be a tricky job to balance things out I bet you are pleased it worked ok  :).

Jo
Title: Re: building the Frisco Standard Model
Post by: Craig DeShong on February 26, 2019, 11:00:13 PM
Chris- just ran the mill backwards (and set the down feed to up-feed since the mill was running backwards).
Jo- got to drag out the old Trigonometry and use the Pythagorean Theorem.  I could read the x & y from my DRO and by applying the theorem, as long as I got a hypotenuse of the triangle over .95 inches I knew I was good to go.  As George B. in a post not long ago said ďThe math doesnít lieĒ.

Today I started out locating the hole in each head for the vertical cam shaft.  The building notes instruct the builder to make a pointed shaft (slightly longer than the allowed space) and fit it to the base, then attach the head and ďspotĒ the location for the hole.  Iím doing this in the photo below.
(https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/Lm44ETwWzdyipWcqM8A0O_nvRHHpX-eofHrGCId8lbw0aL5dW23zIehPGC74vI-l1rDK3R7tooOx2nPN5G3nOx0loIvNSNnFkUXa06iXhHPrs8ZuRBngGPZs9xZXjrdGkWBluqFvZw=w2400)


Once the location of the hole was spotted I took measurements on the mill from the two X and Y datum, turned the head over and then re-located the location for the bearing hole.  I then center drilled, drilled and finally reamed the hole.  The drawings call for this steel camshaft to run in the aluminum casting.  Iím again choosing to use a brass bushing so I over bored the hole in preparation for installing the bushing.
(https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/m4nY6pHFbW8RE2jZI7m_mLAyhIlWyKPDf82aI-L6IdGHROp_ivHnEFyyaJhIR5hrj9W90mnKu8ZYGKoaMP8wZuumT0KAf9jIIemHzQSk1Kbr7ftDIbgn5301FGSlhZyzV7b6ncClBw=w2400)


An assembly check shows both upper camshaft bearing holes to be located correctly.  WHEW!
(https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/Xd93aF00-Gaiqj-fXoG7UgGwHgap0kJR-jrZRKn71PZaQhhK-RoJMl2Uy6aEE5p_gdGHCRoo1dhc9QD8oGURVV4pMvF-zjJiTBmsR5YkXg5uMwWxZqSD4oJ7JZ_bL22o4g9ccjQCqw=w2400)


There were a plethora of holes to be drilled thru the top of both castings.  Things went pretty well with the front casting, not so well with the rear casting. 
With the rear casting, the holes just didnít seem to locate on the established bosses well, and the two furthest outboard holes were completely off the casting!  I was thinking at first that I was working with another measurement in error, but the same measurements are used for both castings and the castings are supposed to be mirrors of each other.  Had I shifted the casting outboard more, the head bolts would not have hit their bosses.   
(https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/V_4hGOZD0EGxqr0dAocs_Q2aLhNbcoobDh4o8xXu8HJrYzbMVFj0oQPjLMJ5GzjLGpHKHZkVQS6IniFtLJ-lZK2SOqjU51VBb-o8fpTGqzw_px4CUNFbG9P4C2jlpouOEkIKNs6hHg=w2400)


I just decided to re-locate the holes for the exhaust valve pivot and the igniter pivot as seen in the drawing below.  This may (will?) require me to do a slight re-design of the rocker and pivot arms, but that probably can be accomplished later. 
(https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/pX7rw5qEAV-EKc7LofAp3TAxlc3X_3f12MiOP_uPEUf4AnVr0OO-BirPS1tCAxB-lITS6fKmMjrVd1NNXw9niLhUyadCPxx1J2hnz87m2MgU_6yk42sAN59bWfE4ABLL2m7NgD2q0g=w2400)
Title: Re: building the Frisco Standard Model
Post by: Craig DeShong on February 27, 2019, 10:15:37 PM
Work progressed on the heads today.  It was a busy day and I missed taking ďin progressĒ pictures.  I guess I was too busy concentrating on all the steps. 

The clearances between some of the holes is tight and I was concerned I might get some interference, especially since I didnít hold exactly to the drawings in my work yesterday.  Turns out I have only one minor interference in one of the heads; Itís with one of the valve guides and I believe once I install the guides I can touch-up the hole and everything will be ok.  The interference isnít enough to reach the valve stem.
Iíve included a few photos of the completed heads, sans the holes through to the valve guides which Iíll need to drill after I fabricate and install the guides.
Title: Re: building the Frisco Standard Model
Post by: steamer on February 27, 2019, 11:06:05 PM
Nicely Done Craig!    Very Unusual heads!  The slot is interesting...

Dave
Title: Re: building the Frisco Standard Model
Post by: Craig DeShong on March 04, 2019, 10:07:46 PM
Thanks for following along and your comments.

Work has been progressing over the last few days; I just havenít posted.  Probably time to update the project.

I have completed the valve guides and valves, lapped them, and am ready to install them.  If youíve been following Brianís hit and miss project in a parallel post, youíll notice the valves and valve guides thread into the head as Brian designed his.  This is also reminiscent of the Meyers engine I built a while back but the designer of this engine had the presence of mind to include plugs across form the valve guides so you can lap the valves and install them separate from the guides (as Brian did his).

Iíve one again strayed a bit from the drawings and builders notes.  The specs call for brass valve guides and steel valves.  I had some cast iron so I used it for the valve guides and I got some 303 stainless steel for the valves.  I have no experience with brass valve guides on an IC engine; all my previous engines have had cast iron guides so I went with the material with which Iíve had good experiences.

I suspect, when I install the valve guides, Iíll use Loctite to hold them in place; same with the plugs.  Iíve worked quite a bit to loosen up the valve guide threads, so they should screw into place fairly easily.  The drawings call for using a 4-40 socket head cap screw and nut to capture the valve guides and insert them into the heads.
Title: Re: building the Frisco Standard Model
Post by: Dave Otto on March 04, 2019, 11:48:28 PM
Lots of nice work there Craig, the heads are coming along great.

Dave
Title: Re: building the Frisco Standard Model
Post by: Craig DeShong on March 11, 2019, 09:57:58 PM
Thanks for your comment Dave.  Thanks also to those silently following along.

The mechanism has gotten pretty stiff since Iíve installed the pistons and rings.  Iíve been doing some ďrunning inĒ on the lathe to trying to loosen things up a little.

Today I worked on fabrication of the intake and exhaust cams.  There were several ways I could think of fabricating these, but I ended up using my indexing head; rotating the piece ten degrees and cutting a flat.
(https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/E5v3mHmupTD1-_lpeFxZRJDD1kAmAWs95k5fCFKbzS3EO7Wc5mxC-ByhMQRCeIXiux4sRSmDxraBZXQ38_iZp-FNDFi334DoPoXu_edhoZoDbieOIG9SuEguJiVIVbALn5k2gC2BGQ=w2400)


After a bit of filing, the flats were smoothed out and the final cam shape was attained.
(https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/7e6Fzz5Snbiz00DPmN4K9RiKKJoogmcOHQ5H48cjn10HxYzxWFWHB4o_rzeVZ-rdYzcqRCl893yjAd3P-IhUgkqKFa9b734YXj_XmN6RCyxikfE0eutprNqZ7Js_QzC1RBgkaxafpw=w2400)


The intake and exhaust cams are nearly the same shape, just with some flats cut at various places.  Here Iíve cut a flat on one of the exhaust cams and Iím now parting it off the stock.
(https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/g1DXTcthrT3u2EIrOCDmzSesZIZuqOI0UjsPIuUMKpysH0Opz9QivMP7u3wqFUjTCK1VZ_dL2xQDXr8X_-0_6bN6CjUCExOn6i6MeVnYs8lgx5aRijz-W2QtU7RmZPp-zYQZI6mfXg=w2400)


With the cams fabricated and installed, I have the model on the lathe and am performing a pit of ďrunning inĒ.
RJVQNEAk0N0
Title: Re: building the Frisco Standard Model
Post by: Brian Rupnow on March 11, 2019, 10:39:26 PM
Lovely stuff Craig. That is a very interesting engine.---Brian
Title: Re: building the Frisco Standard Model
Post by: crueby on March 11, 2019, 10:56:19 PM
Coming along beautifully!
 :popcorn: :popcorn: :popcorn:
Title: Re: building the Frisco Standard Model
Post by: Craig DeShong on March 20, 2019, 09:13:02 PM
Itís been a while since Iíve updated this thread.  Life has kept me away from the shop for some days and the work, while in the shop has been a bit tedious.

I was thinking of making a few snide remarks pertaining to how the measurements given for the intake and exhaust rockers are ďmere suggestionsĒ, but upon further reflection, this probably is the reality of this particular model.  All lengths are based upon where the side shafts land when spotted to the heads; and that is based upon the geometry used in the base (read back thread for those problems) and also the rotation of the heads.  There is no ďtrueĒ way to align the heads on the cylinders, and even a rotation of a degree or two will make significant changes in the lengths of the rocker arms.  I suspect that ďtrial and fitĒ is, in reality, the order of the day.  The rockers that resulted from my fabrication are each unique, and are not interchangeable.  They donít particularly look like then drawings either.

The intake rocker resides inside the head and is difficult to see once the rocker assemblies are complete.  In this photo I have it swung out so you can get a good look at it.  It has a roller on the end that rides on the intake cam.
(https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/u8aARKfo4S4SJ22mEP5SPeJR9iLlWNGvXqyacudaTsfMjbm0S5RfU7hfL_IlvYiAnmjW-dIr_vWcE2eSXZ7smldJgwVxhwrAY-ziYJui8pRKjQSRD6AH6arcrUPrxzAjuH5wu9_dvA=w2400)


In this photo the same rocker has been swung in place into the head.  The intake valve stem is on the right, the exhaust valve stem on the left.  I havenít assembled the exhaust rocker yet.
(https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/DsnFJ8ldirimtfys_wInysQdymLjERfGF0DVDKfDlp4ptAyasLVFRqmDtEopKfK8VHGeFP7j7iE9Husi1IF-W1sejjl9gZ7yLbI5PhRdIqrwjSMkuDEpWRVMZFh_gzHgseE2-XG2xQ=w2400)

Here is a photo of the intake rocker and intake cam assembly.  Iím just using a ľ inch drill as the cam shaft in this mock-up.  The intake valve is closed.
(https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/hBNbZM3KMCot1GKNteXFJ6vwzQy7Ztn26jmm92ySUqBfuLBDeihdG1gLw4uzXKltuzzmE4Bwe1uDOB33FUcy0qjyDVh21ozjHOkc4R8_GzbqNDhx1V-19_fBROy_VwjJWl_v3ehQ-g=w2400)


Same photo as above but with the intake cam rotated to open the intake valve.
(https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/tMPy4cb4hQkFKaHC0dz5edTwp04zrq8X3ml4zPQBf8Zke7W102U7RnLhs-UeHFWVUEsleHC5Dq_0zH_OtYS7uHJcPAcHnlBpB9XgB_qhkuHlHG3i-givEfcalmh-iQ-1zo0xRher6w=w2400)


This is a photo of the exhaust rocker.  It is a casting  and Iíve attached a roller as specified in the drawings to ride upon the exhaust cam.
(https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/9oDCj-V3YGcGMKN6d6gxr95XFWRj37RwWnUlRmJmnt0bFYu549IMhviGbZsXPSLUzAOgU3etACXzpB0ZwxpBwzycEI-Wt2_G3iVkQ5acTmnElTbz7jbkpLORLBD3KfehVn3tCf7ghg=w2400)


Here you see the exhaust rocker installed in the head .
(https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/KHipUdHgmQ-lat2fOV7aM4APc2kVpykwJqrWxpQHFw4pZjA11RiBLpErXgEu-4cx3kdIO1BCoiU6ZULy1vmn1VHiyfcXoQDyuuTgEP85IzujeKhuXtD7OmOSyEJMoaEKFlYTuIfQUA=w2400)


Another photo of the head with the intake and exhaust rockers in place.
(https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/DXLSY3ZtTAukgDANM8-CSE_HZJkxhjFIW6BaxcxqOZ3cF0wP2IbTi00W72WxVrH5Ubf-v7NVxlHd8QHLt7nToJKzv3FS77oHEs8ybe8t2-UX08n5O0ZsV39LFeaySd7YjnZPkhMdbg=w2400)


With all valves and rockers installed, hereís a short video of the rockers and valves in action.
TTJD4R8VMs4
Title: Re: building the Frisco Standard Model
Post by: Admiral_dk on March 21, 2019, 11:29:31 AM
Interesting rocker arrangement + it shows that certain new trends are just a slightly different way to make something done years ago  :old:
Title: Re: building the Frisco Standard Model
Post by: yogi on March 21, 2019, 12:54:21 PM
The engine is coming along nicely Craig!  :popcorn: :popcorn: :popcorn:

I always wondered about the valve/rocker arm arrangement on this engine. Thanks for showing the details!   :ThumbsUp:

Title: Re: building the Frisco Standard Model
Post by: gbritnell on March 21, 2019, 05:37:06 PM
The engine is certainly going to be unique! Very nice work Craig.
Gbritnell
Title: Re: building the Frisco Standard Model
Post by: b.lindsey on March 21, 2019, 10:07:30 PM
Those heads are works of art Craig. What an interesting engine.

Bill
Title: Re: building the Frisco Standard Model
Post by: Art K on March 22, 2019, 01:36:48 AM
Craig,
It's probably a good thing I didn't design that thing cause it would look very different and a lot less complex. Lookin good :ThumbsUp:
Art
Title: Re: building the Frisco Standard Model
Post by: Craig DeShong on April 05, 2019, 02:38:05 PM
Admiral, Yogi, George, Bill, Art; thanks for your comments and replies.  Thanks also to those checking in without leaving a comment.

Iíve found life really getting in the way of my shop time over these last few weeks, still progress has been made.  Iíve been working on the igniters.  To me at least the drawings arenít very clear as to how this plethora of parts go together to make an igniter system so Iíve been making parts which I can identify and then assembling them to the engine, and letting that lead me to how everything else goes together.  Many of these parts are quite small (for me at least) and they are exacting in size, so Iíve had to make a few over again once I saw how they fit and where I needed to make some adjustments.

Also, not mentioned in the drawings, but you have to make mirror images of all the non symmetrical parts because the heads are mirror images. Youíd think this might be apparent to the builder, but to this builder it wasnít till I thought about it when some parts wouldnít fit.  Here I give you a view of some of the parts to make one of the igniters.
(https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/aYGhq-ZpWngBuzMpqM0WsNu66buaEkDjti2n4SiwHLehTlRT4Zbpkzynbo7UOW2OeRczjzu-QmkB4gfOKms1uyCoA3gaI2Zb4v6fzwOJUXDCrqQxD21HSB3MvMUGqvon9A68qH_pLw=w2400)


In this photo you see the adjustment for the igniter timing.  Iím sure this worked well on the full size, it is constructed to adjust the timing on the model also but I doubt there is enough travel to make a really noticeable change. 
(https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/n--fCvfkIdDystpBQhMBzYtxu_ExUddUhSYUPGGkDoyLJEmUgEo36aSIRAEac14U-P-JAmLzAXbeAHKQj4oD3ba7ZDkMWTjGu2V6pJXzwUkhBt76RtzCTyQA9GrYu7sRuZ60_t4MxA=w2400)


This is a better view of one of the igniters; I donít have the other one completed yet. 
(https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/YpIpeChucRUcxbktC_Oomfg0IztXCjvGb329KXJ-NncfGvBos29ozw9_Xdpg7663S3whkPAJEr4KTSsGmofCEECLqLkLeqWFZplp0e8Z43GbJhbUpqbMmZz4Yd92bNqWcAV8M8y25Q=w2400)


Finally, I give you a somewhat jerky view of the engine as I turn it over slowly.  From the video you should get a fairly good idea how all this goes together.  I have verified that the igniter is tripping and resetting with a volt/ohm meter.
MsEJS1_kg6k
Title: Re: building the Frisco Standard Model
Post by: b.lindsey on April 05, 2019, 03:41:19 PM
Some fiddly parts for those igniters indeed Craig. Just curious, what are the igniter contact points?

Bill
Title: Re: building the Frisco Standard Model
Post by: Craig DeShong on April 05, 2019, 09:13:22 PM
Bill, I got some tungsten electrodes a while back I've been using for the igniter points.  The diameter is 1/8th inch so I usually need to turn it down some, which is a chore because the stuff doesn't machine well at all.
Title: Re: building the Frisco Standard Model
Post by: b.lindsey on April 05, 2019, 09:37:27 PM
Yeah I can imagine as to turning them down, but they should last. Thanks for the info.
Bill
Title: Re: building the Frisco Standard Model
Post by: Craig DeShong on April 15, 2019, 12:50:57 AM
Thanks for the comment Bill; Thanks to those of you silently following alongÖ

Work has been progressing slowly on this model.  Lots of little parts to make, and lots of fitting and re-fitting.  A while back I was thinking it might be nice to build another of these, once I get this one done and figure out all the nuances.  At this point Iím thinking I want to get it done and then run a million miles from it. :hellno:  Yep, itís been a frustrating build.

I finally have both igniters complete and functioning nicely- so my ohm meter says.  I seem to have picked up a little leakage in the intake valves.  Iím hoping itís just a shaving or two unseating them, something a thorough cleaning should flush out.  Below- a photo of the engine so far:
(https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/Yhxkp7PfLGRNSVG80efnSvLs569_IJW5h4ME-I6lhV8TfFLikCeSzj1s-jHNl_po1C1BXq1_yav1xGBVb0lLqLe1UyI1NyOrEupX4RTSvcXlBaVscZ255Tr6TcRPq9UFAIT56NDZBQ=w2400)

Iíll give you a close up of both igniters- an interesting action and as you can see: lots of little pieces.
(https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/MFuE4id6IIWGo7St7s4ho9NZvl_rgp-Yh4XeJiPEWQ8RvDN7nqGNRbC5LF0ZGDG2Ku2b29fBmYrX95EO1FK2j_C4XDrFgjKMbfi6HEVxec3y-dRkzRG9rx1QKiuXgnzA8cb8j2CuoQ=w2400)

The other igniter
(https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/5HpIkYGawI62dbtS9a2p4AijYlxS9zZTeKomm_NTBiXP1PLBPJXRm3eacmITKuVEL8xxzXe8W4AszSQC9fh3ZDtu7OK_s9xbgBJmfHvT72dUrVamJpo0BD8lPKeTOATz9PRBPFYVdQ=w2400)


Finally, a video as I turn the engine over
wS274mpQBeY
Title: Re: building the Frisco Standard Model
Post by: Brian Rupnow on April 15, 2019, 01:04:20 AM
Awesome engine Craig.---Brian
Title: Re: building the Frisco Standard Model
Post by: Dave Otto on April 15, 2019, 01:07:22 AM
One of the coolest things about the Standard engines, all the great motion on the top of the engine.
Nicely done!

Dave
Title: Re: building the Frisco Standard Model
Post by: Art K on April 15, 2019, 03:32:46 AM
Craig,
There sure are a lot of fiddly bits on that engine, looks great.
Art
Title: Re: building the Frisco Standard Model
Post by: Roger B on April 16, 2019, 08:01:34 PM
Still following along with interest  :ThumbsUp:  :ThumbsUp:  :wine1: It's a fascinating engine  :) Some of the pictures of the igniters are blocked for me  :( are they on PhotoBucket?
Title: Re: building the Frisco Standard Model
Post by: Craig DeShong on April 18, 2019, 01:44:53 AM
No Roger, the photos are hosted in Google photos.  I just tried with a browser not signed into google and still saw them so I can't imagine why they don't appear for you???
Title: Re: building the Frisco Standard Model
Post by: crueby on April 18, 2019, 01:49:18 AM
The ones in reply 162 are not showing here either, just a little icon line.
Title: Re: building the Frisco Standard Model
Post by: Art K on April 18, 2019, 03:24:45 AM
Craig,
I think you let your shop gnomes out of the shop and they are fiddling with your photos now. Dangerous thing those rascally critters and electrical gadgets. Chris is right about post 162.
Art
Title: Re: building the Frisco Standard Model
Post by: Craig DeShong on April 18, 2019, 03:53:19 AM
Those NASTY Gnomes, Chris would say, "Not enough chocolate chip cookies" no doubt.  I have the gnomes converted back into helpful shop elves and re-processed the photos.  I can see them so I'll assume y'all can too now.  Thanks for pointing this out.
Title: Re: building the Frisco Standard Model
Post by: crueby on April 18, 2019, 12:13:55 PM
Those NASTY Gnomes, Chris would say, "Not enough chocolate chip cookies" no doubt.  I have the gnomes converted back into helpful shop elves and re-processed the photos.  I can see them so I'll assume y'all can too now.  Thanks for pointing this out.
You found the right cookies for them, pics are back!   :Lol:
Title: Re: building the Frisco Standard Model
Post by: b.lindsey on April 18, 2019, 01:28:43 PM
Thanks for the video Craig. Sure will be a fascinating one to watch running.

Bill