Model Engine Maker

Supporting => Vehicles & Models => Topic started by: Ye-Ole Steam Dude on September 04, 2018, 07:18:58 PM

Title: 1898 Automobile A.K.A. horseless carriage
Post by: Ye-Ole Steam Dude on September 04, 2018, 07:18:58 PM
Hello everyone,

My latest project will be to build a full size replica of a late 1800 to early 1900's automobile, a.k.a. Horseless Carriage, a.k.a. Motorized Buggy. As the steam engine pushed the Industrial Revolution into high gear (pun intended) the advent of the motorized vehicle just exploded on the scene. Almost every carriage shop, buggy shop, wagon shop and even shops that built horse drawn hearse, that could buy a gasoline engine, built their version of an “automobile.”

I have designed one based on a collection of many very similar automobiles that were built within an eight to ten year period. I have tried to keep as much of the original”looks” as possible while using the modern materials that are available today. From the outward appearance it will be hard to distinguish it from an original.

As the build progresses I will detail all of the various parts and pieces used in the construction. There will be some reverse engineering as needed to best adapt the parts that I will have to purchase and those parts that will be made from my original drawings. I still have quite a bit of design work to complete, but the Main Chassis drawings are completed and will be the first component to build.

The first step is to build a “welding fixture” where I will fabricate the main chassis. I am making the fixture out of 2x4 and 2x6 lumber rather than steel, because it will only be used one time. Once I have a rolling chassis the fixture will be taken apart to allow more room in my small shop.

Attached photos show my original Concept Design, the Welding Fixture and the limited space that I will have in my shop in the beginning. This should be a fun build and a chance for me to utilize my new machines.

Have a great day,
Thomas
Title: Re: 1898 Automobile A.K.A. horseless carriage
Post by: zeeprogrammer on September 04, 2018, 07:45:23 PM
Very cool!!  :popcorn: :popcorn:
Title: Re: 1898 Automobile A.K.A. horseless carriage
Post by: b.lindsey on September 04, 2018, 07:53:23 PM
Thomas, if you haven't checked this site out, please do.
http://www.horselesscarriagereplicas.com/plans.html

These guys come up every year to out cotton ginning days festival in October and bring their carriages with then even from Florida and Louisiana. As I recall their plans are quite reasonable and may save you some time as well as providing tried and tested designs.

Bill
Title: Re: 1898 Automobile A.K.A. horseless carriage
Post by: Ye-Ole Steam Dude on September 04, 2018, 08:38:53 PM
Thanks Zee and Bill,

Bill I do not have that link and man I really like the "Pie Wagon", thanks so much. In fact, I like all those buggies.

I already have so much time involved in my design it would be hard to not complete it, but adding or making some changes would not be hard. I will look over all the plans offered and might order several.

Again thanks for the information.

Thomas
Title: Re: 1898 Automobile A.K.A. horseless carriage
Post by: crueby on September 04, 2018, 08:55:49 PM
Excellent! Going to be following this one - got plenty of popcorn kernels ready to pop!
               :popcornsmall:     (me)

 :popcorn: :popcorn: :popcorn: :popcorn:    (shop elves)
What kind of engine are you planning on using for it?
Title: Re: 1898 Automobile A.K.A. horseless carriage
Post by: Ye-Ole Steam Dude on September 04, 2018, 10:08:48 PM
Hello Chris,

I will be using a Kohler 14-hp slant single cylinder with a 1-inch straight output shaft. I ordered it several months ago to get dimensions off of it to use on the drawings. I have most of the running gear in stock now except for the rear drive axle.

Have a great day,
Thomas
Title: Re: 1898 Automobile A.K.A. horseless carriage
Post by: bent on September 05, 2018, 09:41:16 PM
Sounds cool, will try and follow along, now that I'm back again  :popcorn:  :)
Title: Re: 1898 Automobile A.K.A. horseless carriage
Post by: Steamer5 on September 05, 2018, 10:33:41 PM
Oh goody!

Now just have to ek out  :popcorn: until the new seasons arrives........too early to plant yet

Cheers Kerrin
Title: Re: 1898 Automobile A.K.A. horseless carriage
Post by: Ye-Ole Steam Dude on September 05, 2018, 10:42:07 PM
Sounds cool, will try and follow along, now that I'm back again  :popcorn:  :)



Hey Bent, good to have you follow along. Hope to start cutting and welding on some steel this coming week.

Have a great day,
Thomas
Title: Re: 1898 Automobile A.K.A. horseless carriage
Post by: Ye-Ole Steam Dude on September 05, 2018, 10:56:53 PM
Oh goody!

Now just have to ek out  :popcorn: until the new seasons arrives........too early to plant yet

Cheers Kerrin



Welcome aboard Steamer5

Have a great day,
Thomas
Title: Re: 1898 Automobile A.K.A. horseless carriage
Post by: b.lindsey on September 05, 2018, 11:36:47 PM
Thomas, can you post a pic of the engine when you can. Would like to see it.

Bill
Title: Re: 1898 Automobile A.K.A. horseless carriage
Post by: Ye-Ole Steam Dude on September 06, 2018, 12:10:54 AM
Thomas, can you post a pic of the engine when you can. Would like to see it.

Bill


Hello Bill,

Here are 4 photos of the engine. One showing each angle. I chose this engine for many reasons, but a couple of the main points are: 1) the slant single has a fairly low profile, 2) The 1-inch straight output shaft mates up to the Driver CVT pulley, 3) All of the rest of the Driven parts mate up with the Driver, 4) The Final Rear Axle will also be 1-inch which will handle the engine and wheels/tires that I have chosen.

I spent a lot of time researching all the various "systems" that are available but chose this "collective group" because the operation will replicate that of the Circa 1800/1900 automobiles.

Have a great day,
Thomas
Title: Re: 1898 Automobile A.K.A. horseless carriage
Post by: crueby on September 06, 2018, 12:39:46 AM
That should give nice reliable running, though how are you going to hook up the pull-start rope to the hand crank on the end of the car?!    :Lol:

 :popcorn: :popcorn: :popcorn:
Title: Re: 1898 Automobile A.K.A. horseless carriage
Post by: b.lindsey on September 06, 2018, 01:00:37 AM
Should be plenty of power Thomas, likely much more that the original car had and definitely higher tech!! Thanks for the pictures.

Bill
Title: Re: 1898 Automobile A.K.A. horseless carriage
Post by: Ye-Ole Steam Dude on September 06, 2018, 01:14:39 AM
That should give nice reliable running, though how are you going to hook up the pull-start rope to the hand crank on the end of the car?!    :Lol:

 :popcorn: :popcorn: :popcorn:

Hi Chris,

It is an electric start with a backup pull start. I plan to use the electric starter and have not decided to leave or remove the rope start. The rope start is not in the way, so most likely will leave it as is. I could add a fake Hand Crank in the front...hummmm, not a bad idea.

Have a great day,
Thomas
Title: Re: 1898 Automobile A.K.A. horseless carriage
Post by: Ye-Ole Steam Dude on September 06, 2018, 01:20:44 AM
Should be plenty of power Thomas, likely much more that the original car had and definitely higher tech!! Thanks for the pictures.

Bill


Some of those old original cars used as small as 2hp engines, again they used whatever they could get their hands on. The race car that Henry Ford built had a 27-hp engine and a flywheel that weighted over 300 pounds. Those folks were quite creative.

I will remove the fuel tank on top and the muffler on top and to one side. This will lower the profile quite a bit.

Have a great day,
Thomas
Title: Re: 1898 Automobile A.K.A. horseless carriage
Post by: zeeprogrammer on September 06, 2018, 01:23:10 AM
I hope this isn't a tangent...

You're building full scale. That got me interested in finding out what the requirements are for being able to drive it on the streets, if not at least the neighborhood.
Is this something you're allowed to drive to shows, or just cruise around in? What do you have to do to allow that?
Title: Re: 1898 Automobile A.K.A. horseless carriage
Post by: Ye-Ole Steam Dude on September 06, 2018, 01:35:36 AM
I hope this isn't a tangent...

You're building full scale. That got me interested in finding out what the requirements are for being able to drive it on the streets, if not at least the neighborhood.
Is this something you're allowed to drive to shows, or just cruise around in? What do you have to do to allow that?

Hello Zee,

I have not checked in with the local law to find out if I could get it accepted for street use. My intent is to use it here around the lake. I am way out in the country, 30 miles from any city, so no problem for me to drive around the back roads to visit friends or go fishing. I do plan to take it to several of the car shows.

The way that I currently have the running gear set up will limit the top speed to 36mph, but I can change that easily.

My drawing that I attached shows it to have a steering wheel, but I also am considering a 'Tiller" steering. The tiller would be plenty safe at 36mph but getting much faster might become a problem.

Have a great day,
Thomas
Title: Re: 1898 Automobile A.K.A. horseless carriage
Post by: Johnmcc69 on September 06, 2018, 01:38:35 AM
Nice project Thomas, will be watching your design & build of it.

 John
Title: Re: 1898 Automobile A.K.A. horseless carriage
Post by: Ye-Ole Steam Dude on September 06, 2018, 08:36:12 AM
Nice project Thomas, will be watching your design & build of it.

 John



Hello John,

Thanks for following along, hope to have some progress photos early next week.

Have a great day,
Thomas
Title: Re: 1898 Automobile A.K.A. horseless carriage
Post by: Roger B on September 06, 2018, 09:16:07 AM
Looks an interesting project  :ThumbsUp:  :ThumbsUp: I will be following along  :wine1:

I remember something like this in a reprint of an old '1000 things you can make but shouldn't' book. I will see if I can find it.
Title: Re: 1898 Automobile A.K.A. horseless carriage
Post by: Ye-Ole Steam Dude on September 06, 2018, 11:26:55 AM
Looks an interesting project  :ThumbsUp:  :ThumbsUp: I will be following along  :wine1:

I remember something like this in a reprint of an old '1000 things you can make but shouldn't' book. I will see if I can find it.


Hello Roger,

That would interesting to read, if you can find let me know.

Have a great day,
Thomas
Title: Re: 1898 Automobile A.K.A. horseless carriage
Post by: Roger B on September 06, 2018, 05:46:51 PM
Hello Thomas, this is what I was thinking about. It's not quite what you are doing but may be of interest. Both are in 'The Boy Mechanic, Book 3 - 1919' reprinted by Lindsay Publications Inc inc. (Mods, if this is a problem please delete the scans and I will deal with this via PMs).
Title: Re: 1898 Automobile A.K.A. horseless carriage
Post by: Ye-Ole Steam Dude on September 06, 2018, 06:01:53 PM
Hello Roger B,

Both cars are good looking to me, I like the old stuff and how inventive the folks were. Thanks for this information.

Have a great day,
Thomas
Title: Re: 1898 Automobile A.K.A. horseless carriage
Post by: bent on September 06, 2018, 06:30:50 PM
Hook the hand-crank up to a centrifugal switch (like from a typical cap-start/cap-run electric motor) and let it be an alternate starter switch?  :Jester:
Title: Re: 1898 Automobile A.K.A. horseless carriage
Post by: Ye-Ole Steam Dude on September 06, 2018, 08:46:13 PM
Hook the hand-crank up to a centrifugal switch (like from a typical cap-start/cap-run electric motor) and let it be an alternate starter switch?  :Jester:


Hey Bent that is a great idea, I might do that.

Have a great day,
Thomas
Title: Re: 1898 Automobile A.K.A. horseless carriage
Post by: Ye-Ole Steam Dude on September 06, 2018, 08:47:58 PM
Hello everyone,

Now the fun begins, I just picked up the first load of steel tubing and angle from my supplier. Next thing is to set up the Welding Fixture with the band saw to make all the 45 degree cuts on the rectangular and square tube. Then all the 90 degree cuts can be completed. Next will be to clean all the cuts and start laying out all the pieces to be clamped into position and start the welding process.

I have worked almost exclusively the past 45 years with aluminum and forgot how heavy and dirty steel is, but the old dudes did not have aluminum back in the 1800's so I will work with it and have fun. I will calculate the weight of the main chassis and the engine frame when it is completed. On my truck is 2-joints 24-foot long and 3-joints 10-foot long.

Have a great day,
Thomas
Title: Re: 1898 Automobile A.K.A. horseless carriage
Post by: Ye-Ole Steam Dude on September 07, 2018, 05:56:14 PM
Hello everyone,

First photo shows making the first cuts on one of the 24-foot pieces means that it extends out the door of my shop. However after two long cuts ( the two side rails ) I was able to keep all the A/C in the shop. The 3rd photo shows all the main chassis pieces cut to length and temporarily in place. I will clean all the cut ends with a grinder to prepare for welding and clamp to the welding fixture after squaring everything. The last photo shows all the parts cut to length for the engine frame.

If all goes well I should have the main chassis squared up, all the gussets in place and everything tacked welded by this afternoon.

Have a great day,
Thomas
Title: Re: 1898 Automobile A.K.A. horseless carriage
Post by: crueby on September 07, 2018, 06:22:49 PM
Great start!


Though you need to make a giant penny to put in the photos to make us think its a scale model!   :Lol:


 :popcorn: :popcorn: :popcorn:
Title: Re: 1898 Automobile A.K.A. horseless carriage
Post by: Ye-Ole Steam Dude on September 07, 2018, 07:25:15 PM
Great start!


Though you need to make a giant penny to put in the photos to make us think its a scale model!   :Lol:


 :popcorn: :popcorn: :popcorn:


OH yeah like George does..... :ROFL:

I just started to tack weld the first corner and lost power to the whole neighborhood. :slap: I cannot believe this. WE are always at the end of the line so it takes forever to get the repair. Oh well!

Have a great day,
Thomas
Title: Re: 1898 Automobile A.K.A. horseless carriage
Post by: Johnmcc69 on September 07, 2018, 08:55:28 PM
Real nice start! Love that gantry crane also, that's got to be real handy.

 I love those old articles that show home built tractors, engines, & machines. You would think everyone had a home machine shop back then. (Probably built out of scrap) thanks for posting those Roger.  :ThumbsUp:

 Looking good Thomas!

 John
Title: Re: 1898 Automobile A.K.A. horseless carriage
Post by: crueby on September 07, 2018, 09:01:39 PM
Your welder knocked out the neighborhood? Gotta stop using that terrawatt laser to weld with!
 :popcorn:
Title: Re: 1898 Automobile A.K.A. horseless carriage
Post by: Ye-Ole Steam Dude on September 07, 2018, 09:21:47 PM
Your welder knocked out the neighborhood? Gotta stop using that terrawatt laser to weld with!
 :popcorn:


Come on Chris give me a break.....he he, my welder wasn't even turned on. I drove down the main road coming in and it was an old rotten pine tree that fell across the power line, just got power back on.

I will try and get more welding done tomorrow. Once I get it all squared up and clamped down, it should not take more than a couple of hours to completed welding the rectangular tubing and the gussets.

Have a great day,
Thomas

I'm going to fix a pizza and a "special" drink....or two.
Title: Re: 1898 Automobile A.K.A. horseless carriage
Post by: crueby on September 07, 2018, 09:26:10 PM
Your welder knocked out the neighborhood? Gotta stop using that terrawatt laser to weld with!
 :popcorn:


Come on Chris give me a break.....he he, my welder wasn't even turned on. I drove down the main road coming in and it was an old rotten pine tree that fell across the power line, just got power back on.

I will try and get more welding done tomorrow. Once I get it all squared up and clamped down, it should not take more than a couple of hours to completed welding the rectangular tubing and the gussets.

Have a great day,
Thomas

I'm going to fix a pizza and a "special" drink....or two.
There used to be a big old willow tree down the road from my street that knocked out the power a lot, was glad when they finally took the whole thing out!
Title: Re: 1898 Automobile A.K.A. horseless carriage
Post by: b.lindsey on September 07, 2018, 09:56:23 PM
Good start Thomas. Too bad the power interruption stopped things temporarily.

Bill
Title: Re: 1898 Automobile A.K.A. horseless carriage
Post by: Ye-Ole Steam Dude on September 08, 2018, 11:34:59 AM
Real nice start! Love that gantry crane also, that's got to be real handy.

 I love those old articles that show home built tractors, engines, & machines. You would think everyone had a home machine shop back then. (Probably built out of scrap) thanks for posting those Roger.  :ThumbsUp:

 Looking good Thomas!

 John


Hi John,

I could not live without my electric crane, it is my third hand, helper and more. I used it to lift the Mill and Lathe up on their stands without any help. I have a 115v outlet under my carport and I use the crane out there a lot. It sure will come in handy on this Buggy project, lifting the engine back and forth in place many times and lifting the body on and off the chassis.

Have a great day,
Thomas
Title: Re: 1898 Automobile A.K.A. horseless carriage
Post by: Ye-Ole Steam Dude on September 08, 2018, 06:17:57 PM
Hello everyone,

Long delay this morning because I had to wait for the stores to open so I could buy more clamps. Took a lot more clamps to hold everything in place after squaring the Chassis. Holding the Gussets in each corner required a lot more clamps, but it is worth the extra effort. The Chassis is within 1/16-inch from opposite corner to opposite corner. Not to bad for a beginner.

Photo 1 and 2 showing some of the clamps. Photo 3 showing a gusset in one corner. I used 1-1/2x1-1/2x1/8 angle to make the gussets. Photo 4 showing a welded corner on the top. And the last photo is not a rain cloud in my shop....even with a fan pointed out one window the welding smoke build up pretty fast.

Next I will turn the Chassis over and if all goes well this afternoon I should be able to complete the required welding in this phase of construction.

Have a great day,
Thomas
Title: Re: 1898 Automobile A.K.A. horseless carriage
Post by: zeeprogrammer on September 08, 2018, 07:51:25 PM
 :ThumbsUp: :ThumbsUp:

Bummer. Welding is beyond me.
Title: Re: 1898 Automobile A.K.A. horseless carriage
Post by: crueby on September 08, 2018, 08:45:18 PM
Nice!   :popcorn:
Title: Re: 1898 Automobile A.K.A. horseless carriage
Post by: Ye-Ole Steam Dude on September 08, 2018, 09:58:17 PM
Thanks guys,

Ok, the main Chassis is now completely welded. Need to do a little clean up work and it will be ready to add all the various brackets. I have the brackets drawn to scale and need to find a shop close by that can waterjet them out of plate. I have a shop that can plasma cut them if I cannot find a waterjet shop.

Have a great day,
Thomas
Title: Re: 1898 Automobile A.K.A. horseless carriage
Post by: b.lindsey on September 08, 2018, 10:00:50 PM
A good day's work there Thomas. Glad the power stayed on today too  :)

Bill
Title: Re: 1898 Automobile A.K.A. horseless carriage
Post by: Ye-Ole Steam Dude on September 08, 2018, 10:10:47 PM
A good day's work there Thomas. Glad the power stayed on today too  :)

Bill


Hi Bill,

Yes me too about the power but I was really late getting to start welding and just finished up a few minutes ago. Got my clamps and started welding and ran out of wire, no biggie had a spare roll. In the process of installing the new spool, somehow I hit the Spool Gun switch inside the cabinet and was not aware that I had done this. Got the new wire installed and turned the welder on to feed the wire into the gun, and NOTHING! What? I opened the cabinet again and hit the gun trigger and the rollers did not move??? What the hey :shrug: I un-did the latch on the rollers and re-fastened it and still nothing. I am getting a bit frustrated now. Looked inside the cabinet again and noticed the switch in the wrong position, boy that was a relief. Anyway had a good day.

Have a great day,
Thomas
Title: Re: 1898 Automobile A.K.A. horseless carriage
Post by: Kim on September 08, 2018, 11:25:09 PM
Making good progress there, Thomas!

So, what's the trade-offs between plasma vs. water-jet cutting? Why might one prefer one over the other?  I know nothing about these things.

Kim
Title: Re: 1898 Automobile A.K.A. horseless carriage
Post by: Ye-Ole Steam Dude on September 09, 2018, 06:58:21 AM
Making good progress there, Thomas!

So, what's the trade-offs between plasma vs. water-jet cutting? Why might one prefer one over the other?  I know nothing about these things.

Kim


Hello Kim,

Waterjet cutting leaves an almost perfect edge and is more accurate than Plasma. Waterjet also induces very little heat into the material being cut. To be truthful in my case it really doesn’t matter that much. The brackets that I need will be cut out of 3/16" thick mild steel so Plasma will do just fine.

Have a great day,
Thomas
Title: Re: 1898 Automobile A.K.A. horseless carriage
Post by: bent on September 10, 2018, 06:51:48 PM
There's a shop next door to where I work that does laser cutting...but they are about 2000 miles from you, so that's no help.  I assume the brackets are either (a) too fancy or (b) too numerous to just bang them out on the mini mill?

Smoke in the shop...one of the reasons I bought a Tig welder.  But your Mig welds make some of my work look like it was done by an amateur...oh wait it was.  :Lol:
Title: Re: 1898 Automobile A.K.A. horseless carriage
Post by: Ye-Ole Steam Dude on September 10, 2018, 08:24:46 PM
There's a shop next door to where I work that does laser cutting...but they are about 2000 miles from you, so that's no help.  I assume the brackets are either (a) too fancy or (b) too numerous to just bang them out on the mini mill?

Smoke in the shop...one of the reasons I bought a Tig welder.  But your Mig welds make some of my work look like it was done by an amateur...oh wait it was.  :Lol:


Hey Bent,

I could mill the brackets because there are only 8 total, but I do not have the steel plate in stock. Most companies that do the waterjeting and plasma cutting have all this material in stock and it is so much cheaper to buy from them and quicker. I will take the AutoCAD drawings on a thumb drive to a shop in Nacogdoches and have them plasma cut for me. I will post some photos of them when I get them back.

Today was spent laying out the Engine Frame and getting about half of the welding completed. Attached is a photo showing the Engine Frame clamped onto the Main Chassis. I am just using the Main Chassis as a "fixture" to hold everything in place to be welded. Should be able to finish this part tomorrow.

Have a great day,
Thomas
Title: Re: 1898 Automobile A.K.A. horseless carriage
Post by: crueby on September 10, 2018, 08:37:07 PM
Following along with great interest!
One question: when you are done with the 1:1 scale 'model' car, will you be making a baby brother for it in the model shop?
 :popcorn: :popcorn: :popcorn:
Title: Re: 1898 Automobile A.K.A. horseless carriage
Post by: Ye-Ole Steam Dude on September 10, 2018, 08:44:23 PM
Following along with great interest!
One question: when you are done with the 1:1 scale 'model' car, will you be making a baby brother for it in the model shop?
 :popcorn: :popcorn: :popcorn:


Hello Chris,

Funny thing that you ask that question. One of my friends was over last night and ask the same question. After we talked about it for a while, I am pretty sure that I will do it. I could make it remote control fairly easy, would only need 2 channels. It will not be so small that it will fit on a penny....maybe around 18-inches long.

Have a great day,
Thomas
Title: Re: 1898 Automobile A.K.A. horseless carriage
Post by: Ye-Ole Steam Dude on September 10, 2018, 08:55:15 PM
Hey again Chris,

Here is a photo of a R/C Tug that I built out of aluminum and MIG welded it together. Twin screw with a phasing control to tie both engines together.

Have a great day,
Thomas
Title: Re: 1898 Automobile A.K.A. horseless carriage
Post by: crueby on September 10, 2018, 09:02:42 PM
Sweet tug! Always a favorite type of boat. You are already familiar with RC'ing things so the car should be easy. Won't you need a third channel for brakes though? Maybe a fourth for the ejector seat to get rid of hitchhiking squirrels...
Title: Re: 1898 Automobile A.K.A. horseless carriage
Post by: Ye-Ole Steam Dude on September 10, 2018, 09:37:54 PM
Sweet tug! Always a favorite type of boat. You are already familiar with RC'ing things so the car should be easy. Won't you need a third channel for brakes though? Maybe a fourth for the ejector seat to get rid of hitchhiking squirrels...

Hello Chris,

Using a forward / reverse electric motor there would be no need for a brake, I have used this set up before and it works OK. I have built a lot of R/C "things" over the years but boats are my number one favorite. I will have to think on that ejector seat :lolb:

Have a great day,
Thomas
Title: Re: 1898 Automobile A.K.A. horseless carriage
Post by: crueby on September 10, 2018, 11:02:21 PM
Sweet tug! Always a favorite type of boat. You are already familiar with RC'ing things so the car should be easy. Won't you need a third channel for brakes though? Maybe a fourth for the ejector seat to get rid of hitchhiking squirrels...

Hello Chris,

Using a forward / reverse electric motor there would be no need for a brake, I have used this set up before and it works OK. I have built a lot of R/C "things" over the years but boats are my number one favorite. I will have to think on that ejector seat :lolb:

Have a great day,
Thomas
Ah - I had figured you would have a gas motor in it like its big brother. With electric, 2 is all it needs.
 :cheers:
Title: Re: 1898 Automobile A.K.A. horseless carriage
Post by: Ye-Ole Steam Dude on September 11, 2018, 05:53:12 PM
Hello everyone,

More welding on the Engine Frame installing two center supports that the Engine Plate will be welded on. Used my Mill to drill out the 1-inch holes in the two down legs that weld to the Engine Frame. I will machine some Brass bushings to go into the 1-inch holes and will be held in place with ½" grade-8 bolts through the side brackets. Last photo shows the Down Legs weld to the Engine Frame. Still a lot of work to do but it is beginning to take shape.

Have a great day,
Thomas
Title: Re: 1898 Automobile A.K.A. horseless carriage
Post by: JC54 on September 11, 2018, 07:39:53 PM
Great build so far :NotWorthy:
         I started building a one off road legal vehicle that is petrol powered and now is "in the style"  of a 1932 Foden Steam Lorry. I have had to abandon the project due to ill health and am reluctantly selling it.  :'(
         In the UK a one off vehicle has to be inspected and passed by VOSA. They publish a manual of specifications for every part of a vehicles. Us builders called it "VOSA's Bible". The final test is very strict and quite expensive, I was very lucky with my build as the original vehicle was imported from USA and over 10 years old. I just needed a normal car MOT and could then register it. Any alterations after that were just "Customising"    John
Title: Re: 1898 Automobile A.K.A. horseless carriage
Post by: Ye-Ole Steam Dude on September 11, 2018, 08:44:04 PM
Great build so far :NotWorthy:
         I started building a one off road legal vehicle that is petrol powered and now is "in the style"  of a 1932 Foden Steam Lorry. I have had to abandon the project due to ill health and am reluctantly selling it.  :'(
         In the UK a one off vehicle has to be inspected and passed by VOSA. They publish a manual of specifications for every part of a vehicles. Us builders called it "VOSA's Bible". The final test is very strict and quite expensive, I was very lucky with my build as the original vehicle was imported from USA and over 10 years old. I just needed a normal car MOT and could then register it. Any alterations after that were just "Customising"    John

Hello John,

Sounds like a interesting project, too bad you are not up to completing. I would like to see a photo if you have one.

Have a great day,
Thomas
Title: Re: 1898 Automobile A.K.A. horseless carriage
Post by: JC54 on September 12, 2018, 08:58:37 PM
I will try to figure out how to add photos and post a couple tomorrow, Before and after shots  :atcomputer: :noidea:              John
Title: Re: 1898 Automobile A.K.A. horseless carriage
Post by: Ye-Ole Steam Dude on September 12, 2018, 10:33:54 PM
I will try to figure out how to add photos and post a couple tomorrow, Before and after shots  :atcomputer: :noidea:              John

Hello John,

Sounds good, looking forward to see your project.

I did a small amount of welding and cleaning up of welds this morning. Then took my drawings for the Brackets over to Nacogdoches to be plasma cut.

Got side tracked talking with Marcus owner of The Cycle Shop in Lufkin. They will custom build my wheels for the Buggy. I could spend all day at that shop, just a cool ole 50's style of business and really friendly folks.

I did get all the Axle bearings and the Jackshaft bearings in today and a bit more steel, so things are moving along.

Have a great day,
Thomas
Title: Re: 1898 Automobile A.K.A. horseless carriage
Post by: Johnmcc69 on September 13, 2018, 02:27:34 AM
Funny how that works isn't it? Take the wheel project to a bike shop. That's how the Wright brothers did it. & I think the same "bike mechanic" built the engine for that. (Based on David McColloughs book "the Wright brothers", a fascinating read..)

 Great progress Thomas!

 John
Title: Re: 1898 Automobile A.K.A. horseless carriage
Post by: Ye-Ole Steam Dude on September 13, 2018, 08:39:47 AM
Funny how that works isn't it? Take the wheel project to a bike shop. That's how the Wright brothers did it. & I think the same "bike mechanic" built the engine for that. (Based on David McColloughs book "the Wright brothers", a fascinating read..)

 Great progress Thomas!

 John

Hi John,

Marcus is an "original" old time biker and his shop is right out of the 50's. All their work is hands on as if it was for their own personal motorcycle. I am still a long ways from adding the wheels but looking forward to that time.

Have a great day,
Thomas
Title: Re: 1898 Automobile A.K.A. horseless carriage
Post by: JC54 on September 13, 2018, 03:51:57 PM
Hopefully here are the photos that I promised. The first one is vehicle as it arrived off an American aircraft carrier!!! Second pic is in it's first road legal state as a display vehicle at a local steam rally. Third pic is how far I got with rebuild 5 years ago. Not touched since due to the wife and my health problems.
Title: Re: 1898 Automobile A.K.A. horseless carriage
Post by: JC54 on September 13, 2018, 03:57:57 PM
Pic 2
Title: Re: 1898 Automobile A.K.A. horseless carriage
Post by: JC54 on September 13, 2018, 04:02:36 PM
Sorry about this, it appears my photos are too big for one post, in future will work out how to shrink them... :noidea: :atcomputer:
Title: Re: 1898 Automobile A.K.A. horseless carriage
Post by: Ye-Ole Steam Dude on September 13, 2018, 06:50:38 PM
Hopefully here are the photos that I promised. The first one is vehicle as it arrived off an American aircraft carrier!!! Second pic is in it's first road legal state as a display vehicle at a local steam rally. Third pic is how far I got with rebuild 5 years ago. Not touched since due to the wife and my health problems.

Hello John,

Really cool looking with the display of you engines. Surely would be nice to have it finished.

Thanks for sharing and have a great day,
Thomas
Title: Re: 1898 Automobile A.K.A. horseless carriage
Post by: JC54 on September 13, 2018, 08:18:13 PM
Thank you for the comments Thomas. Yes I would like to see it finished but it will have to be by somebody else if they want to make an offer and take it on.  Ultimately it will only end up in the scrapyard. Kids aren't interested and not at all mechanically minded.    John  :'( :DrinkPint:
Title: Re: 1898 Automobile A.K.A. horseless carriage
Post by: Ye-Ole Steam Dude on September 13, 2018, 09:02:11 PM
Making good progress there, Thomas!

So, what's the trade-offs between plasma vs. water-jet cutting? Why might one prefer one over the other?  I know nothing about these things.

Kim

Hello Kim my second reply,

I attached a photo of some 3/16 plate cut by waterjet, note the almost perfect edge.

Next to this is a ½ plate cut by plasma, note the rough edge, holes not round, and the center cutout is not square.

Not all plasma cutting turns out this way, but this is so poorly done I am going to have it waterjetted by another company.

This will delay me for probably another week but I just cannot use the plasma cut pieces.

Have a great day,
Thomas
Title: Re: 1898 Automobile A.K.A. horseless carriage
Post by: Kim on September 13, 2018, 10:01:31 PM
That's too bad, Thomas :(

Looks like they may need to sharpen their plasma cutter!  :ROFL:

What causes the difference?  The plasma heats it up and melts things making them less precise because it flows a little?

Kim
Title: Re: 1898 Automobile A.K.A. horseless carriage
Post by: Ye-Ole Steam Dude on September 13, 2018, 10:19:20 PM
That's too bad, Thomas :(

Looks like they may need to sharpen their plasma cutter!  :ROFL:

What causes the difference?  The plasma heats it up and melts things making them less precise because it flows a little?

Kim

Hey again Kim,

Yes plasma is heat and it creates a lot of heat in the metal that is being cut. However, the operator should make adjustments to the machine depending on the material and thickness. They ( the company that did this work for me ) had just cut some 3/16 mild steel plate and it turned out OK. It is obvious they did not re-adjust the heat range and air pressure when the 1/2 was cut. They are good people over there so I am not too upset. Really it's my fault, I knew better and should have had all of it waterjetted to start with.

Have a great day,
Thomas
Title: Re: 1898 Automobile A.K.A. horseless carriage
Post by: Flyboy Jim on September 14, 2018, 03:28:56 AM
The plasma cut piece looks, to me, like a piece that would have a piece of tubing run through it and welded. If my assumption is correct, I'm wondering just how close of a fit it needs. There may be more to this than what I'm seeing.

I'm enjoying this build thread.  :ThumbsUp:

Jim
Title: Re: 1898 Automobile A.K.A. horseless carriage
Post by: Ye-Ole Steam Dude on September 14, 2018, 07:50:47 AM
The plasma cut piece looks, to me, like a piece that would have a piece of tubing run through it and welded. If my assumption is correct, I'm wondering just how close of a fit it needs. There may be more to this than what I'm seeing.

I'm enjoying this build thread.  :ThumbsUp:

Jim

Hello Jim,

You are correct, there are four of these "bearing flanges" and they do weld to the ends of square tube to make the Axle Housings. They need to be within a 1/16-inch or less accuracy to properly align the Square Tube with the 4-bolt Bearing. The bolt holes in the Bearings are .46" diameter and I will use 3/8" bolts to secure the Bearing to the plate. Each Axle Housing will be aligned as near perfect as I can get them to the flanges before welding them in place. Flange to Tube alignment will be on the "X" and "Z" axis before welding. Final adjustment to the actual Axle will be made with the Bearings when bolted to the Flanges.

Have a great day,
Thomas
Title: Re: 1898 Automobile A.K.A. horseless carriage
Post by: Ian S C on September 14, 2018, 02:34:06 PM
In my last job we built a machine for feeding out hay for animals (sheep cows etc). Sprockets, a ratchet, and a few other bits were Plasma cut, or at one time oxy gas cut, then cleaned up with the angle grinder. The bits that fitted on shafts had a 30 mm hole, and I used to take them home and bore them to 35 mm, the shaft size we used. We finished building them about 2yrs ago, about a month ago one of the first machines (20 yr old) came in for repair, the gas cut sprockets were all OK. Some of the rest of it was a bit rough, but sitting outside for 20yrs, and being dragged around paddocks once a day during the winter feed out season, not too bad.
Here's a new one.
Ian S C
           
           
Title: Re: 1898 Automobile A.K.A. horseless carriage
Post by: Ye-Ole Steam Dude on September 14, 2018, 04:51:16 PM
Hello Ian,

Very cool looking machine. I just spent the last hour re-boring all the holes on the 3/16" plate that was plasma cut....boy what a job. The jagged edge would catch the point opening (flute) on the drill bit and cause all kinds of chatter. Had to go real slow to keep from breaking the bit. The plasma cutting hardens the metal and makes it even more difficult to drill.

I did place the order for the 4 Axle Flanges to be waterjetted with a company in Houston, that is the good news. The bad news it will take at least 10-days.

Have a great day,
Thomas
Title: Re: 1898 Automobile A.K.A. horseless carriage
Post by: Ye-Ole Steam Dude on September 14, 2018, 08:42:37 PM
Hello everyone,

Got a lot of work completed today. Made the Bushing Holders and installed them in the Down Legs on the Engine Frame. I will machine some brass bushings to go inside these Holders. So pleased that after all the welding and fabrication on the Engine Frame that the Bushing Holders aligned almost perfect with each other. I slipped a piece of pipe temporarily into the Holders to confirm the alignment. Used a lot of clamps, spacers and the electric crane to align the Engine Frame on the Chassis. Once I get everything in perfect alignment and clamped down real good, I can start to tack weld the Hanger Brackets to the Chassis. Last photo is a close up of the Hanger Brackets with the Down Leg temporarily bolted in place. I am quitting a bit early today because I want to get a fresh look and double check everything in the morning before any welding. This alignment must be perfect to allow the Engine Frame and Rear Axle assembly to run straight and true.

Have a great day,
Thomas
Title: Re: 1898 Automobile A.K.A. horseless carriage
Post by: crueby on September 14, 2018, 09:31:52 PM
Quite good progress!  I keep forgetting its full size, keep expecting to see the frame clamped in the mill.


 :popcorn:
Title: Re: 1898 Automobile A.K.A. horseless carriage
Post by: Ye-Ole Steam Dude on September 14, 2018, 10:18:49 PM
Quite good progress!  I keep forgetting its full size, keep expecting to see the frame clamped in the mill.


 :popcorn:

Hello Chris,

Remember, it is only slightly larger than your project! :shrug:

Really pleased with the work today.

Have a great day,
Thomas
Title: Re: 1898 Automobile A.K.A. horseless carriage
Post by: crueby on September 14, 2018, 10:22:29 PM
Quite good progress!  I keep forgetting its full size, keep expecting to see the frame clamped in the mill.


 :popcorn:

Hello Chris,

Remember, it is only slightly larger than your project! :shrug:

Really pleased with the work today.

Have a great day,
Thomas
Admit it, you just got tired of the shop elves having all the fun in the models!

Title: Re: 1898 Automobile A.K.A. horseless carriage
Post by: zeeprogrammer on September 14, 2018, 11:32:43 PM
Really pleased with the work today.

Always nice to see comments like that. It's a great feeling. I've felt it once or twice. (I'm lying. It's been a few more times than that.)
Title: Re: 1898 Automobile A.K.A. horseless carriage
Post by: b.lindsey on September 15, 2018, 12:17:43 AM
Great progress Thomas!! The water jet parts will be better no doubt...worth the wait. I am assuming there will be a lot of woodworking on this project too?

Bill
Title: Re: 1898 Automobile A.K.A. horseless carriage
Post by: Ye-Ole Steam Dude on September 15, 2018, 12:38:21 AM
Quite good progress!  I keep forgetting its full size, keep expecting to see the frame clamped in the mill.


 :popcorn:

Hello Chris,

Remember, it is only slightly larger than your project! :shrug:

Really pleased with the work today.

Have a great day,
Thomas
Admit it, you just got tired of the shop elves having all the fun in the models!


Hey Chris,

OK, you got me.. :embarassed:
Title: Re: 1898 Automobile A.K.A. horseless carriage
Post by: Ye-Ole Steam Dude on September 15, 2018, 12:41:47 AM
Really pleased with the work today.

Always nice to see comments like that. It's a great feeling. I've felt it once or twice. (I'm lying. It's been a few more times than that.)

Hello Zee,

Feels so good to step back and see positive progress after a long day. Even though I much rather be in my shop, I do get a bit weary by the end of the day.

Have a great day,
Thomas
Title: Re: 1898 Automobile A.K.A. horseless carriage
Post by: Ye-Ole Steam Dude on September 15, 2018, 12:50:10 AM
Great progress Thomas!! The water jet parts will be better no doubt...worth the wait. I am assuming there will be a lot of woodworking on this project too?

Bill

Hello Bill,

First off, sure glad the storm weakened before coming ashore and hope you made it OK.

Yes, all of the Body work will be wood just like the original Buggies. I am not real handy when it comes to woodworking but I will take my time and my buddy around the corner has a full blown wood shop. Actually I am looking forward to making the body.

I should have ordered all the steel parts waterjetted from the get-go, but no harm done. The axle flanges are a very important part and need to be very accurate.

Have a great day,
Thomas
Title: Re: 1898 Automobile A.K.A. horseless carriage
Post by: 10KPete on September 15, 2018, 04:27:52 AM
 :ThumbsUp: :popcorn: :popcorn:

 :cheers:

Pete
Title: Re: 1898 Automobile A.K.A. horseless carriage
Post by: Kim on September 15, 2018, 06:33:09 AM
Nice progress, Thomas. I'm enjoying watching your project come along!  Pass the popcorn, Pete :)  :popcorn:
Kim
Title: Re: 1898 Automobile A.K.A. horseless carriage
Post by: Ye-Ole Steam Dude on September 15, 2018, 10:57:21 AM
Thanks Pete and Kim,

This build is a whole lot different than making a steam engine but so far it has been as much fun. There is always the challenge and learning curve on any project but that is why we do what we do.

I am going into town today to pick up a drawing of the Hub that my wheels will use. Marcus Jr. at The Cycle Shop talked with the manufacture and told them about my project and they sent him a copy of the original drawing. Now I can design the hub adapter that will fit on the Rear Axle and secure the Wheel to the drive Axle.

Have a great day,
Thomas
Title: Re: 1898 Automobile A.K.A. horseless carriage
Post by: Kim on September 15, 2018, 05:25:21 PM
This build is a whole lot different than making a steam engine but so far it has been as much fun. There is always the challenge and learning curve on any project but that is why we do what we do.
Yes, it certainly is! Couldn't agree more!

I am going into town today to pick up a drawing of the Hub that my wheels will use. Marcus Jr. at The Cycle Shop talked with the manufacture and told them about my project and they sent him a copy of the original drawing. Now I can design the hub adapter that will fit on the Rear Axle and secure the Wheel to the drive Axle.
That's is pretty cool!
Kim

Title: Re: 1898 Automobile A.K.A. horseless carriage
Post by: Ye-Ole Steam Dude on September 15, 2018, 09:08:31 PM
Hello everyone,

Completed another major milestone on the Buggy today. Got all the Hanger Brackets that support and allow the Engine Frame to hinge up and down aligned and welded in place. The two attached photos show the Chassis upside down so the Engine Frame when down in the photo actually represents it in the up position and visa versa. The amount of travel shown in the photos is much greater than the amount that will be allowed by the Springs. This turned out to be a much more complex job than I had anticipated, but the final alignment is near perfect.

Have a great day,
Thomas
Title: Re: 1898 Automobile A.K.A. horseless carriage
Post by: Johnmcc69 on September 15, 2018, 09:22:06 PM
 :ThumbsUp:
 Nice...
 What kind of suspension will this have Thomas? Buggy springs? Something different?

 Enjoying this...

 John
Title: Re: 1898 Automobile A.K.A. horseless carriage
Post by: Ye-Ole Steam Dude on September 15, 2018, 09:58:14 PM
:ThumbsUp:
 Nice...
 What kind of suspension will this have Thomas? Buggy springs? Something different?

 Enjoying this...

 John

Hello John,

Will have original buggy springs front and rear. I purchased a pair of 18-inch for the front and a pair of 24-inch for the rear.

After I turn the Chassis over the spring brackets can be welded in place and the springs installed. I want the Buggy to sit level and I can make any needed adjustment in the rear.

Have a great day,
Thomas
Title: Re: 1898 Automobile A.K.A. horseless carriage
Post by: b.lindsey on September 15, 2018, 11:27:01 PM
Nice looking springs Thomas. Where does one find such springs? Just curious.

Bill
Title: Re: 1898 Automobile A.K.A. horseless carriage
Post by: zeeprogrammer on September 16, 2018, 01:00:16 AM
What a project! Something I dream about but beyond my skill.
Sure...I can develop those skills but other things in life are in the way.

I'll live through you.
Title: Re: 1898 Automobile A.K.A. horseless carriage
Post by: Ye-Ole Steam Dude on September 16, 2018, 01:38:11 AM
Nice looking springs Thomas. Where does one find such springs? Just curious.

Bill

Hello Bill,

I found these springs at Cottage Craft Works here in Texas. This company sell a lot of Amish made items.

Have a great day,
Thomas
Title: Re: 1898 Automobile A.K.A. horseless carriage
Post by: Ye-Ole Steam Dude on September 16, 2018, 01:49:57 AM
What a project! Something I dream about but beyond my skill.
Sure...I can develop those skills but other things in life are in the way.

I'll live through you.

Hello Zee,

Thank you for the kind words but I would like to think of this more like old fashion blacksmithing.

Have a great day,
Thomas
Title: Re: 1898 Automobile A.K.A. horseless carriage
Post by: Ye-Ole Steam Dude on September 16, 2018, 04:16:15 PM
Hello everyone,

Got both inside Hanger Brackets welded in place this morning. Next thing will be to buy some 2-1/2" wide flat bar and make some gussets to weld between the outside and inside Hanger Brackets on both sides of the Chassis. Then the Chassis will be ready to turn right-side up and start to work on all the other components. There will be a lot of work to do on the top side before installing the Rear Axle assembly.

Have a great day,
Thomas
Title: Re: 1898 Automobile A.K.A. horseless carriage
Post by: crueby on September 16, 2018, 05:55:45 PM
So that inside rectangle at the one end is hinged for the rear axle? One big trailing arm assembly?
 :popcorn: :popcorn: :popcorn:
Title: Re: 1898 Automobile A.K.A. horseless carriage
Post by: Ye-Ole Steam Dude on September 16, 2018, 08:03:28 PM
So that inside rectangle at the one end is hinged for the rear axle? One big trailing arm assembly?
 :popcorn: :popcorn: :popcorn:


Hi Chris,

That is correct, the rear axle, both Axle Housings, the engine, the jackshaft and the FNR transmission will all be mounted on the Engine Frame via the Engine Plate. This design will eliminate all slack and popping of the drive chain to the axle, everything moves “as one”. The Down Legs align the movement on a level plain with the Axle Housing and the fixed point on the Springs. This will show up when the Chassis is turned right side up and the Engine Plate is installed.

Have a great day,
Thomas
Title: Re: 1898 Automobile A.K.A. horseless carriage
Post by: bent on September 17, 2018, 05:55:35 PM
Ah, ok, now I see why the frame is hinged.  Looking pretty good so far, Thomas!  :popcorn:
Title: Re: 1898 Automobile A.K.A. horseless carriage
Post by: Ye-Ole Steam Dude on September 17, 2018, 07:04:19 PM
Ah, ok, now I see why the frame is hinged.  Looking pretty good so far, Thomas!  :popcorn:

Hello Bent,

My design will make more sense when all this comes together with the Chassis sitting on the axles and wheels.

Have a great day,
Thomas
Title: Re: 1898 Automobile A.K.A. horseless carriage
Post by: Ye-Ole Steam Dude on September 18, 2018, 09:33:19 PM
Hello everyone,

Did not get a lot of work done on the Buggy today because it took almost a half day to install a new Quick Change Tool Post on the lathe.

However, I did finished welding on the Engine Frame Brackets and was able to turn the Chassis right-side-up. Did a little clean up grinding on the top side welds and then re-installed the Engine Frame. Just sat the Engine Plate on to the Engine Frame to have a look and could not resist setting the Jackshaft and couple of the Sprockets on the Plate. Now that got me anxious to go for a ride...oh well that might be a while yet.

Have a great day,
Thomas
Title: Re: 1898 Automobile A.K.A. horseless carriage
Post by: b.lindsey on September 18, 2018, 09:41:38 PM
Looking great Thomas. What is the next step?

Bill
Title: Re: 1898 Automobile A.K.A. horseless carriage
Post by: Ye-Ole Steam Dude on September 18, 2018, 09:57:45 PM
Looking great Thomas. What is the next step?

Bill

Hello Bill,

Now that my lathe is ready to work again, the next thing is to make both brass bushings that hold the Engine Frame in close tolerance to the Chassis. I cannot get an exact center and align the Engine Plate until the bushing are in place. With this completed, I can get the Engine Plate tack welded to the Engine Frame, confirm it is dead center, and then start on installing the two enclosed Rear Axle housings. Not sure but I am guessing this will take several days. I cannot actually weld the Housings to the Frame until I receive the water jetted Axle Flanges.  I might run out of things to do on the Buggy waiting on the flanges.

Not to worry, I have designed a new smaller press break so I can work on it.

Have a great day,
Thomas
Title: Re: 1898 Automobile A.K.A. horseless carriage
Post by: Ye-Ole Steam Dude on September 19, 2018, 04:57:21 PM
Hello everyone,

Got an early start this morning (1:am) and things went smoothly so was able to accomplish a lot. Built a small wood guide to find and mark the dead center of the front of the Chassis.  Put a screw in the center to establish the center placement for the Engine Plate. Then I clamped the Plate in place and clamped metal holders at all four corners. Removed the Plate and spray painted the area on the Engine Frame where the Plate will cover and the same on the Plate. I know a little will burn off during the welding but wanted the “covered” area to have some paint on it after all the welding is completed.

After the paint had dried I replaced the Plate and securely clamped it down and completed all the required welding. I doubled checked to make sure that the Plate had remained dead center and it was. This was another one of those critical steps that I had been worried about because the alignment of the Engine, FNR Transmission, and the Jackshaft depended on the correct placement of the Plate.

One more critical major component to build and that will be the two enclosed Axle Housings and the mounting parts that will be welded below the Engine Frame. Cannot get started on that until I receive the water jetted Axle Flanges.

Have a great day,
Thomas
Title: Re: 1898 Automobile A.K.A. horseless carriage
Post by: bent on September 19, 2018, 06:02:10 PM
Yer havin' way too much fun, Thomas!  :D
Title: Re: 1898 Automobile A.K.A. horseless carriage
Post by: zeeprogrammer on September 19, 2018, 07:45:59 PM
Yer havin' way too much fun, Thomas!  :D

Ditto.

It's getting more and more interesting.
Title: Re: 1898 Automobile A.K.A. horseless carriage
Post by: Ye-Ole Steam Dude on September 19, 2018, 11:13:14 PM
Yer havin' way too much fun, Thomas!  :D

Hello Bent,

Yes I am and cannot get enough. This has turned out to be a really fun break from the steam engines and I love building them. I am most pleased at this point with the progress. :cartwheel:

Have a great day,
Thomas
Title: Re: 1898 Automobile A.K.A. horseless carriage
Post by: Ye-Ole Steam Dude on September 19, 2018, 11:20:31 PM
Yer havin' way too much fun, Thomas!  :D

Ditto.

It's getting more and more interesting.


Hello Zee,

I feel the same and getting anxious to get it on four wheels. The Engine Plate has made a big difference in the looks and looking forward to mounting the engine temporarily. It is after 5:pm and I have been in the shop since 1:am this morning and not tired, but hunger has forced me to shut down for the day.

Have a great day,
Thomas

Title: Re: 1898 Automobile A.K.A. horseless carriage
Post by: crueby on September 20, 2018, 12:13:33 AM
Yer havin' way too much fun, Thomas!  :D

Ditto.

It's getting more and more interesting.


Hello Zee,

I feel the same and getting anxious to get it on four wheels. The Engine Plate has made a big difference in the looks and looking forward to mounting the engine temporarily. It is after 5:pm and I have been in the shop since 1:am this morning and not tired, but hunger has forced me to shut down for the day.

Have a great day,
Thomas
And you guys claim I spend a lot of time in the shop!   :o
Hopefully this was one of those days where you just got so engrossed in the work, having fun, that time just flew by!
 :popcorn: :popcorn: :popcorn:
Title: Re: 1898 Automobile A.K.A. horseless carriage
Post by: Ye-Ole Steam Dude on September 20, 2018, 12:30:04 AM


[/quote]
And you guys claim I spend a lot of time in the shop!   :o
Hopefully this was one of those days where you just got so engrossed in the work, having fun, that time just flew by!
 :popcorn: :popcorn: :popcorn:
[/quote]

Hello Chris,

You are part right, I did get so involved that time just slipped by me, however my normal day starts around 2:am and I head to the shop as soon as I can. When all things are going so good the day passes so fast.

Have a great day,
Thomas
Title: Re: 1898 Automobile A.K.A. horseless carriage
Post by: b.lindsey on September 20, 2018, 12:54:08 AM
That was a long day Thomas!! Glad it was a fun one though  ;)

Bill
Title: Re: 1898 Automobile A.K.A. horseless carriage
Post by: zeeprogrammer on September 20, 2018, 02:51:48 AM
a.m. is no longer in my vocabulary.  ;D
'early' might be. 'late morning' or 'mid morning' might be.
Title: Re: 1898 Automobile A.K.A. horseless carriage
Post by: Ye-Ole Steam Dude on September 20, 2018, 09:32:12 PM
Hello everyone,

Short day in the shop today, only 12-1/2 hours but it was fun. Turned the Chassis upside down to be able to work on the Axle Housings and try to get them in alignment to centerline and 90 degrees to the centerline. Boy what a great feeling when it all worked out to be dead on. See attached photo, from the center of the front of the Chassis to the out back edge on both Axle Housings it was exactly 80-1/8". As soon as the Axle Flanges come in, I can install them and add the Bearings and the Rear Axle. Now when the Front Axle is installed I can square it up with the Rear Axles and know that everything will be square. Time to sit back and enjoy a mixed drink.  :DrinkPint:

Have a great day,
Thomas
Title: Re: 1898 Automobile A.K.A. horseless carriage
Post by: bent on September 20, 2018, 09:36:37 PM
12.5 hours!  Does the missus ever wonder if you're ok, or do you continue to make enough noise that she doesn't worry?  And after that much shop time, you are justified in more than one mixed drink. :cheers:
Title: Re: 1898 Automobile A.K.A. horseless carriage
Post by: Ye-Ole Steam Dude on September 20, 2018, 09:42:24 PM
12.5 hours!  Does the missus ever wonder if you're ok, or do you continue to make enough noise that she doesn't worry?  And after that much shop time, you are justified in more than one mixed drink. :cheers:

Hello Bent,

Well I had one of those years ago but she got tired of all my craziness  :slap:  :hammerbash:

Have a great day,
Thomas
Title: Re: 1898 Automobile A.K.A. horseless carriage
Post by: Ye-Ole Steam Dude on September 21, 2018, 02:46:00 PM
Hello everyone,

I bought a 1" hot rolled steel round bar and cut it to length to temporarily serve as the Rear Axle. I put it in the lathe and turned the OD down to just under 1" to allow it to slide through all the Bearings (four) real easy. It will be used to set and hold the alignment of the Bearing Flanges while the Axle Housings and Supports are being welded in place.

As a side note, I have lots of hours at the lathe since installing the new LED overhead lights and the improvement in the visibility is unbelievable. It is so much better than a gooseneck light that was limited in the area that it lit up.

Have a great day,
Thomas
Title: Re: 1898 Automobile A.K.A. horseless carriage
Post by: Ye-Ole Steam Dude on September 21, 2018, 08:30:49 PM
Hello everyone,

Took some 2-1/2 x 2-1/2 x 1/4 steel angle iron and band saw cut to a slightly long length and then milled them down to an exact length. Set my DRO on the mill for all three holes to be drilled and then beveled the face of each hole. These will be the Spring Perch brackets welded to the Chassis and will support the Springs both front and rear. Another productive day in the shop even though I had to shut down for about an hour due to a thunderstorm and lighting.

Have a great day,
Thomas
Title: Re: 1898 Automobile A.K.A. horseless carriage
Post by: b.lindsey on September 21, 2018, 10:54:44 PM
You are putting those new machines to good use Thomas. Still following your progress daily.

Bill
Title: Re: 1898 Automobile A.K.A. horseless carriage
Post by: Ye-Ole Steam Dude on September 21, 2018, 11:11:30 PM
You are putting those new machines to good use Thomas. Still following your progress daily.

Bill


Hello Bill,

Sure am enjoying the machines and the new layout in my shop. UPS just delivered the four Axle Flanges and that shop in Houston did a GREAT job. Cuts as straight as an arrow and exact to my drawing. Now the trick to weld a Flange on each end of the Housing and get them square and 90 degrees to the Housing. I have all night to think on that :noidea:

Have a great day,
Thomas
Title: Re: 1898 Automobile A.K.A. horseless carriage
Post by: b.lindsey on September 21, 2018, 11:20:09 PM
Only half a night if your day begins at 1 am Thomas  :Jester:

Bill
Title: Re: 1898 Automobile A.K.A. horseless carriage
Post by: Ye-Ole Steam Dude on September 22, 2018, 12:05:21 AM
Only half a night if your day begins at 1 am Thomas  :Jester:

Bill

Hey again Bill,

Well I will be able to sleep to 2:am because I have been out in the shop experimenting with a "jig" to hold everything in place. I have some 5-inch aluminum channel that will hold in "X" and "Y" and figured out how to hold "Z". I will take photos as I weld up the Housings and post them here. If all of this works I will be able to order the Axle as soon as my Wheels come in. :cartwheel:

Have a great day,
Thomas
Title: Re: 1898 Automobile A.K.A. horseless carriage
Post by: Ye-Ole Steam Dude on September 22, 2018, 03:06:04 PM
Hello everyone,

Got an early start this morning and cleaned up with a flapper-disc all the Axle Flanges and then beveled each hole front and back. Took the next 45 minutes experimenting with various welds on some test pieces of the square tube and some flat plate. Those of you that weld, know that welding an inside 90 on 1/8" wall tube onto ½" thick solid plate requires a bit of practice. These are not my best looking welds but they cleaned up OK and I know they are plenty strong.

I used a piece of extra heavy 5" aluminum channel to clamp all the pieces down on. Squared “x”, “Y” and “Z” and then clamped them in place. I just tack welded and staggered the tacks to prevent any heat build up. Even with this caution, having to use a high heat setting on the welder, the tube stilled crawled a bit. Cross diagonal measurement showed about a 1/16" out of square but this is well within the alignment properties of the Flanges.

Got the first Axle Housing completed and temporarily set on the Engine Frame for a reference. Learned a bit on the first one and the second one went together much easier and is almost square.
Mounted both along with the temp axle and the Bearings just to see how it will align. Now I need to make a run into town for some bolts and nuts to bolt everything together before it can all be welded in place.

Have a great day,
Thomas
Title: Re: 1898 Automobile A.K.A. horseless carriage
Post by: Tennessee Whiskey on September 22, 2018, 05:10:50 PM
Looking good Thomas. It looks like your rear end assembly is going to look and perform a lot like a Club Car utility cart I once had.

Whiskey
Title: Re: 1898 Automobile A.K.A. horseless carriage
Post by: Kim on September 22, 2018, 05:18:58 PM
That's some nice welding Thomas!
And glad you were happy with the parts this time around!  :ThumbsUp:
Second time's a charm, in this case (contrary to Zee's other thread  :naughty:).
Kim
Title: Re: 1898 Automobile A.K.A. horseless carriage
Post by: Ye-Ole Steam Dude on September 22, 2018, 05:37:50 PM
Looking good Thomas. It looks like your rear end assembly is going to look and perform a lot like a Club Car utility cart I once had.

Whiskey

Hello Whiskey,

The way it is designed is to isolate the entire drive system including the axle and wheels away from the Chassis, except for the two pivot points. This keeps the weight on the drive wheels. The Chassis and Body will "ride" on the Front Axle Springs and Rear Springs.

Have a great day,
Thomas
Title: Re: 1898 Automobile A.K.A. horseless carriage
Post by: Ye-Ole Steam Dude on September 22, 2018, 05:47:08 PM
That's some nice welding Thomas!
And glad you were happy with the parts this time around!  :ThumbsUp:
Second time's a charm, in this case (contrary to Zee's other thread  :naughty:).
Kim

Hello Kim,

Glad you cannot see all of the welds  :embarassed:, welding inside 90 degree of equal material is hard enough, but it is really hard ( at least for me ) when you have a light gauge on to a much heavier material. They all cleaned up OK and got good penetration on both parts so it is strong. Like my daddy used to say, a good coat of paint will cover a multitude of sin....

Now I wish that I had taken a photo of the water jet flange next to the plasma cut, not even close. The holes on the water jet parts are a perfect circle and did not need any clean up. Expensive but worth it to me.

Just got back from town with some bolts, so back out in the shop to fasten the Bearings to the Flanges.

Have a great day,
Thomas


Title: Re: 1898 Automobile A.K.A. horseless carriage
Post by: Ye-Ole Steam Dude on September 23, 2018, 10:40:45 AM
Hello everyone,

Was able to align and install all four Axle Flange Bearings using just two bolts (temporary) on each Bearing along with the temporary 1" axle. Two of the Flanges and Bearings had a small gap which was less than 1/16" and was closed up by tightening the bolts with very little pressure. The Bearings are self-aligning so after getting all the bolts tight, I could hand turn the axle with no resistance. I will make a temporary fixture to hold both Axle Housings in place while everything is welded.  I am both relieved and pleased that is portion of the project is completed.

Have a great day,
Thomas
Title: Re: 1898 Automobile A.K.A. horseless carriage
Post by: b.lindsey on September 23, 2018, 03:35:04 PM
That is looking really nice Thomas!!  :ThumbsUp:

Bill
Title: Re: 1898 Automobile A.K.A. horseless carriage
Post by: Ye-Ole Steam Dude on September 23, 2018, 03:42:50 PM
That is looking really nice Thomas!!  :ThumbsUp:

Bill


Hello Bill,

We all get a lot of satisfaction and other positive benefits from our hobby, but I am so pleased with the results so far on this project. There is still a very long way to go and just hoping that it will turn out OK. Thanks for the support and nice comment.

Have a great day,
Thomas
Title: Re: 1898 Automobile A.K.A. horseless carriage
Post by: Ye-Ole Steam Dude on September 24, 2018, 05:10:17 PM
Hello everyone,

Another early start this morning and got a lot of work done. All of the critical parts are now welded to the Engine Frame and alignment is spot on. Got both the front and rear Spring Perch Hangers welded in place and now ready to test fit the Springs. Removed the Engine Frame and turned the Chassis right side up and now have it on the jack stands. Have some clean up work to do on the Engine Plate before reinstalling it on to the Chassis. It is beginning to take shape now.  :pinkelephant:  :cartwheel:

Have a great day,
Thomas
Title: Re: 1898 Automobile A.K.A. horseless carriage
Post by: Vixen on September 24, 2018, 05:27:54 PM
H Thomas,

Just lurking, watching and admiring, but not saying much. Best way sometimes.

Nice work :ThumbsUp: :ThumbsUp:

Mike
Title: Re: 1898 Automobile A.K.A. horseless carriage
Post by: bent on September 24, 2018, 05:34:56 PM
Nice work so far Thomas.  What are your thoughts on the drive system, chains or belts?  Clutch is a centrifugal, or a manual (lever-tensioned v-belt?)
Title: Re: 1898 Automobile A.K.A. horseless carriage
Post by: Ye-Ole Steam Dude on September 24, 2018, 05:53:44 PM
H Thomas,

Just lurking, watching and admiring, but not saying much. Best way sometimes.

Nice work :ThumbsUp: :ThumbsUp:

Mike

Hello Mike,

Thanks for following along.

Have a great day,
Thomas
Title: Re: 1898 Automobile A.K.A. horseless carriage
Post by: Ye-Ole Steam Dude on September 24, 2018, 06:02:47 PM
Nice work so far Thomas.  What are your thoughts on the drive system, chains or belts?  Clutch is a centrifugal, or a manual (lever-tensioned v-belt?)


Hey Bent,

Drive system is a multi-part: Belt drive CVT from the motor to a Driven Clutch on a FNR transmission, from the tranny is a #40 chain to a Jackshaft, then another #40 chain down to the Driven Axle. I have selected sprockets that will limit my top end speed to 36 mph, however I can easily change the ratio and increase or decrease the top end speed. I think 36 mph will keep it "original" for the 1898 era and Buggies of that time period.

Have a great day,
Thomas
Title: Re: 1898 Automobile A.K.A. horseless carriage
Post by: Admiral_dk on September 24, 2018, 09:51:16 PM
Also following quietly along so far - but I do have a comment to :

Quote
I think 36 mph will keep it "original" for the 1898 era and Buggies of that time period.

I believe that 36 mph would have made it a world beater back then ... or close anyway ....

Great project  :ThumbsUp:    :popcorn:
Title: Re: 1898 Automobile A.K.A. horseless carriage
Post by: Ye-Ole Steam Dude on September 24, 2018, 11:14:10 PM
Also following quietly along so far - but I do have a comment to :

Quote
I think 36 mph will keep it "original" for the 1898 era and Buggies of that time period.

I believe that 36 mph would have made it a world beater back then ... or close anyway ....

Great project  :ThumbsUp:    :popcorn:


Hello Admiral_dk ,

Think you might be right, I am pushing it at bit. I had it geared at 25 to start with but that just seemed too slow, so I changed a couple of the sprockets and wound up with 36. I might need that extra speed in case I get into a race... :Lol:

Thanks for following and have a great day,
Thomas
Title: Re: 1898 Automobile A.K.A. horseless carriage
Post by: Ye-Ole Steam Dude on September 25, 2018, 09:38:00 AM
Hello everyone,

Got a bit more work done last night before turning the shop lights off. Installed both the front and rear Springs which is temporary so that I can build the rear mounting brackets and start to work on the Front Axle. Need to make a run into town to pick more supplies.

Have a great day,
Thomas
Title: Re: 1898 Automobile A.K.A. horseless carriage
Post by: Ye-Ole Steam Dude on September 25, 2018, 05:38:16 PM
Hello everyone,

Got the Engine Frame all cleaned up and installed on to the Chassis. Next thing will be to make the weld-on brackets that attach to the Enclosed Axle Housings that bolt directly to the Springs.

Next task will be to start to work on the Front Axle ( less the Spindles ) and then weld on the Spring brackets.

Have a great day,
Thomas
Title: Re: 1898 Automobile A.K.A. horseless carriage
Post by: crueby on September 25, 2018, 05:42:08 PM
Starting to look more and more like a car!
Um, it will fit through those doors when done?   :shrug:
 :popcorn: :popcorn: :popcorn:
Title: Re: 1898 Automobile A.K.A. horseless carriage
Post by: Ye-Ole Steam Dude on September 25, 2018, 06:11:04 PM
Starting to look more and more like a car!
Um, it will fit through those doors when done?   :shrug:
 :popcorn: :popcorn: :popcorn:


Hello Chris,

Yes in both cases, looking more like a car and it will (barely) go through the doors when both are opened up.

I stood on the very rear of the Chassis and gave the Springs a good test and they seemed to work OK.

Back out in the shop to get a bit more work completed.

Have a great day,
Thomas
Title: Re: 1898 Automobile A.K.A. horseless carriage
Post by: Kim on September 25, 2018, 08:41:35 PM
The springs look pretty good on there, Thomas!

The springs are attached with 3 bolts, but it seems only the center bolt can actually be tightened up.  Do the outside two just keep it from rotating?  And do you have to locktite those nuts to keep them from falling off?

Interesting build for sure!
Kim
Title: Re: 1898 Automobile A.K.A. horseless carriage
Post by: Ye-Ole Steam Dude on September 25, 2018, 09:33:54 PM
The springs look pretty good on there, Thomas!

The springs are attached with 3 bolts, but it seems only the center bolt can actually be tightened up.  Do the outside two just keep it from rotating?  And do you have to locktite those nuts to keep them from falling off?

Interesting build for sure!
Kim

Hi Kim,

All three bolts will ( when I do the final hook-up ) be tightened. The center bolt pulls up tight (metal to metal), the two outside bolts will have a rubber washer sandwiched between the Spring and the "bracket". There will be almost no compression of the Spring in this area (4.75") the length of the bracket plate. The final hook-up all the nuts will be aircraft self-locking style. And yes, the two outside bolts are for alignment and added strength.

Thanks for following along and your input, have a great day.
Thomas
Title: Re: 1898 Automobile A.K.A. horseless carriage
Post by: Ye-Ole Steam Dude on September 25, 2018, 09:41:40 PM
Hello everyone,

OK here is one of those little project that wind up taking a half day to make. This is the Axle / Spring bracket that welds to the Axle and the Spring then bolts to it. The Engine Frame is held in place only by the two Springs on either side of the Chassis and the two pivot points. All of the “drive components” including the motor are mounted on the Engine Frame which is welded to the two Enclosed Axle Housings. Thus all of the combined weight is directly on the two rear Wheels. The Chassis and Body components weight is separate from the Engine Frame components and rest on both the Front and Rear Springs. I designed it this way for several reasons, one being it should produce a much softer ride.

It’s time to turn the lights off in the shop and have a glass of spirits.

Have a great day,
Thomas
Title: Re: 1898 Automobile A.K.A. horseless carriage
Post by: Kim on September 26, 2018, 05:20:59 AM
The Engine Frame is held in place only by the two Springs on either side of the Chassis and the two pivot points. All of the “drive components” including the motor are mounted on the Engine Frame which is welded to the two Enclosed Axle Housings. Thus all of the combined weight is directly on the two rear Wheels. The Chassis and Body components weight is separate from the Engine Frame components and rest on both the Front and Rear Springs. I designed it this way for several reasons, one being it should produce a much softer ride.
So, is this arrangement prototypical for these early horseless carriages?  Or are you just doing that way because it will give you a better ride?  Sorry for all the questions. I'm just quite intrigued with your build.  :)
Kim
Title: Re: 1898 Automobile A.K.A. horseless carriage
Post by: Ye-Ole Steam Dude on September 26, 2018, 08:40:47 AM

[/quote]
So, is this arrangement prototypical for these early horseless carriages?  Or are you just doing that way because it will give you a better ride?  Sorry for all the questions. I'm just quite intrigued with your build.  :)
Kim
[/quote]

Hello Kim,

You are not asking too many questions, I really appreciate the interest in my project. When I first started researching this era of “horseless carriages”, back in 2015, I was amazed at the ingenuity and ability of these early creators and builders. Most of the “automobiles” up to the end of the 1800's were of a chain drive design and there were various arrangements how the motor was connected to the driven axle. However, most had the motor mounted on the chassis and the driven axle mounted to the suspension system. This style of arrangement would allow slack in the chain when there was any up and down motion of the driven axle, like driving on a rough road. This caused a “popping” in the chain and occasionally the chain would break. If you look at some of the early photos you will notice that some of the driven sprockets were quite large and placed the chain close to the ground. As far as the design on my Buggy I believe it is unique and what I tried to do is eliminate as much of the bad elements found in a chain drive system and make improvements in other areas.

Have a great day,
Thomas
Title: Re: 1898 Automobile A.K.A. horseless carriage
Post by: bent on September 26, 2018, 06:24:36 PM
Yup on that, the double/triple reduction keeps you from having a big ungainly sprocket catching in the weeds.  The unsprung motor/drivetrain mounting should also help keep the chains from dancing around too much.   :ThumbsUp:

I'm looking forward to seeing how you put the front end together.  I'd probably weld a couple of salvaged bicycle front ends on there, but I have a hunch our wily Thomas will surprise us with something a bit more engine-e-ous.  :popcorn:
Title: Re: 1898 Automobile A.K.A. horseless carriage
Post by: Ye-Ole Steam Dude on September 26, 2018, 06:37:51 PM
Yup on that, the double/triple reduction keeps you from having a big ungainly sprocket catching in the weeds.  The unsprung motor/drivetrain mounting should also help keep the chains from dancing around too much.   :ThumbsUp:

I'm looking forward to seeing how you put the front end together.  I'd probably weld a couple of salvaged bicycle front ends on there, but I have a hunch our wily Thomas will surprise us with something a bit more engine-e-ous.  :popcorn:

Hello Bent,

Just a little more progress today. Cut the Front Axle longer than needed so that I could go ahead and weld the front Axle / Spring brackets to it. I will cut it to the correct length after the Spindles are made and ready to weld in place. As you can see, the front Axle is now bolted in place to the Springs. I will add a pair of draglinks to each side that will connect the Front Axle to the Chassis. Each link will have adjustable ends to fine tune the alignment.

All that is needed now to make this a full rolling chassis is the Rear Axle and the Front Spindles and of course the wheels/tires.  In the photos, the height of the Chassis is just one-inch lower than it will be when the wheels / tires are installed. Have not decided to make a Step or a Running Board for each side to make it easier to get in and out.

So what do you think my friend?

Have a great day,
Thomas
Title: Re: 1898 Automobile A.K.A. horseless carriage
Post by: Ye-Ole Steam Dude on October 02, 2018, 12:20:18 PM
Hello everyone,

Finally found a shop that could sandblast and primer the Chassis so I took all the parts over to Nacogdoches last Saturday. Here are couple photos showing it reassembled again with a coat of primer. Hopefully the tires and wheels will come in this week and I can get back to work getting the parts assembled to a stage-three rolling Chassis. In the meantime will work on the Press-Brake.

Have a great day,
Thomas
Title: Re: 1898 Automobile A.K.A. horseless carriage
Post by: crueby on October 02, 2018, 01:45:20 PM
Wow, looking great!


What is a press brake? Other than a pedal you press ti brake, that is?


 :popcorn:
Title: Re: 1898 Automobile A.K.A. horseless carriage
Post by: Ye-Ole Steam Dude on October 02, 2018, 02:05:27 PM
Wow, looking great!


What is a press brake? Other than a pedal you press ti brake, that is?


 :popcorn:

Hello Chris and thank you,

The primer brings all of the parts together and does add to the appearance.

Press-Brake is a machine used to make bends in metal. The one that I am building is actually a Vertical Press, meaning the Punch and Die are set up vertically, with the Punch vertically above the Die. People nowdays use the term "press-brake" to describe both a Press and a Brake. Generally a Brake is used to bend sheet metal or the lighter gauge material and in most cases is manually operated. Whereas a Press is normally used to bend heavier materials and is either hydraulic or air operated. I will convert my concept drawing into a pdf. format and post it here later today.

Have a great day,
Thomas

Title: Re: 1898 Automobile A.K.A. horseless carriage
Post by: Ye-Ole Steam Dude on October 02, 2018, 02:23:34 PM
Hello again Chris,

Attached is a pdf Concept drawing of the Press that I am making now. I sold my big 3-foot / 20-ton Press because I was not using it that much and needed the room in my shop, so I designed this one. I will have some parts to bend for the Buggy and other steam engine projects but most all bends will be less than 12-inches wide and no more than a 1/4-inch thick. The 8-ton bottle jack will provide all the power that I need to operate this Press, but I can install a 10-ton if needed, the design is built to handle 10-tons plus.

I am now milling the two outside plates that are a part of the punch. I hope to get started on milling the punch some time today. I have most of the other parts already completed.

Have a great day,
Thomas
Title: Re: 1898 Automobile A.K.A. horseless carriage
Post by: crueby on October 02, 2018, 03:17:16 PM
Hello again Chris,

Attached is a pdf Concept drawing of the Press that I am making now. I sold my big 3-foot / 20-ton Press because I was not using it that much and needed the room in my shop, so I designed this one. I will have some parts to bend for the Buggy and other steam engine projects but most all bends will be less than 12-inches wide and no more than a 1/4-inch thick. The 8-ton bottle jack will provide all the power that I need to operate this Press, but I can install a 10-ton if needed, the design is built to handle 10-tons plus.

I am now milling the two outside plates that are a part of the punch. I hope to get started on milling the punch some time today. I have most of the other parts already completed.

Have a great day,
Thomas
Excellent, sure it will find a number of uses on the projects!
 :popcorn: :popcorn: :popcorn:
Title: Re: 1898 Automobile A.K.A. horseless carriage
Post by: bent on October 02, 2018, 09:42:31 PM
Wouldn't think you'd need sandblasting since you started with such clean steel - or were you just looking to make sure all the slag got removed?  Either way, looks pretty slick in its primer coat.  Can't wait to see you mount the motor and wheels and take it for a test spin around the yard.  :)
Title: Re: 1898 Automobile A.K.A. horseless carriage
Post by: Ye-Ole Steam Dude on October 02, 2018, 10:17:34 PM
Wouldn't think you'd need sandblasting since you started with such clean steel - or were you just looking to make sure all the slag got removed?  Either way, looks pretty slick in its primer coat.  Can't wait to see you mount the motor and wheels and take it for a test spin around the yard.  :)

Hello Bent,

Sandblasting removes all the weld residue that I could not get to and it gets all the factory oil and scale off the surface. The primer paint has a really great surface to adhere to and a later sanding and second coat of primer makes for a better final paint coat.

I am getting a bit anxious to start mounting the motor and drive train but I need to wait until it is a rolling chassis.

Have a great day,
Thomas
Title: Re: 1898 Automobile A.K.A. horseless carriage
Post by: b.lindsey on October 02, 2018, 11:00:38 PM
The sandblasting and primer really make it look good Thomas. Likely a lot better than they looked back in the old days!!

Bill
Title: Re: 1898 Automobile A.K.A. horseless carriage
Post by: Ye-Ole Steam Dude on October 02, 2018, 11:06:50 PM
The sandblasting and primer really make it look good Thomas. Likely a lot better than they looked back in the old days!!

Bill


Hello Bill and thank you,

Not even sure they had primer back in those days. I plan to paint the entire Chassis in a base Black Enamel and that should make it look original.

Have a great day,
Thomas
Title: Re: 1898 Automobile A.K.A. horseless carriage
Post by: Roger B on October 03, 2018, 05:39:42 PM
You've made a lot of progress since I last looked in  :praise2:  :praise2: I await the first road tests  :wine1:
Title: Re: 1898 Automobile A.K.A. horseless carriage
Post by: Ye-Ole Steam Dude on October 03, 2018, 07:20:11 PM
You've made a lot of progress since I last looked in  :praise2:  :praise2: I await the first road tests  :wine1:

Hello Roger,

Well get your pair of goggles and duster and get ready.....you will be one of the first in the line.  :Lol:

Thanks for following along and have a great day,
Thomas
Title: Re: 1898 Automobile A.K.A. horseless carriage
Post by: Ye-Ole Steam Dude on October 08, 2018, 09:37:28 PM
Hello everyone,

Wahoooooo   :whoohoo:  :whoohoo:  :pinkelephant:  :cartwheel: I got my wheel and tires in today and boy do they look great. The wheels are 21-inch 60-spoke motorcycle tires with boulevard tires. Now I cannot wait to design the rear axle and get it on order, make the front spindles and boys and girls we will have a stage-three rolling Chassis. I think these will just highlight the Buggy.

Have a great day,
Thomas
Title: Re: 1898 Automobile A.K.A. horseless carriage
Post by: b.lindsey on October 08, 2018, 09:47:05 PM
Those look very nice Thomas!!

Bill
Title: Re: 1898 Automobile A.K.A. horseless carriage
Post by: Ye-Ole Steam Dude on October 08, 2018, 09:49:40 PM
Those look very nice Thomas!!

Bill

Hello Bill,

The photos do not do them justice, the hard chrome plating is really beautiful. I will be spending every Sunday cleaning and polishing on them.

Have a great day,
Thomas
Title: Re: 1898 Automobile A.K.A. horseless carriage
Post by: crueby on October 08, 2018, 10:49:36 PM
Boy do those look great! Really changes the look of the machine.
But, motorcycle tires? Does that mean you will be up on two wheels a lot!?!?   :o
 :cheers:
Title: Re: 1898 Automobile A.K.A. horseless carriage
Post by: Ye-Ole Steam Dude on October 08, 2018, 10:54:34 PM
Boy do those look great! Really changes the look of the machine.
But, motorcycle tires? Does that mean you will be up on two wheels a lot!?!?   :o
 :cheers:


I sure hope not  :noidea:
Title: Re: 1898 Automobile A.K.A. horseless carriage
Post by: b.lindsey on October 08, 2018, 11:08:45 PM
That much polishing will detract from shop time though  :LittleDevil:

Bill
Title: Re: 1898 Automobile A.K.A. horseless carriage
Post by: Ye-Ole Steam Dude on October 08, 2018, 11:33:37 PM
That much polishing will detract from shop time though  :LittleDevil:

Bill

Guess I will have to let the wheels go, because I'm behind schedule as it is  :facepalm:
Title: Re: 1898 Automobile A.K.A. horseless carriage
Post by: bent on October 09, 2018, 06:16:39 PM
Yup, they look right.  Liking how this is coming together!
Title: Re: 1898 Automobile A.K.A. horseless carriage
Post by: scc on October 09, 2018, 06:31:16 PM
A fascinating build Thomas,  I look forward to seeing it run. :popcorn:                Terry
Title: Re: 1898 Automobile A.K.A. horseless carriage
Post by: Ye-Ole Steam Dude on October 09, 2018, 06:40:08 PM
Yup, they look right.  Liking how this is coming together!


Hello Bent,

I am so pleased with the looks and the quality. I also think they meet the requirement for the time period and what you see on other automobiles of that day.

Worked about four hours early this morning on designing the adapter flanges and the rear axle, still not finished but getting closer.

Have a great day,
Thomas
Title: Re: 1898 Automobile A.K.A. horseless carriage
Post by: Ye-Ole Steam Dude on October 09, 2018, 06:44:10 PM
A fascinating build Thomas,  I look forward to seeing it run. :popcorn:                Terry

Hi Terry,

I will be glad to take you for a spin in it if you will take me for a ride in your machine. Both would look good at an old fashion barn raising.

Have a great day,
Thomas
Title: Re: 1898 Automobile A.K.A. horseless carriage
Post by: b.lindsey on October 12, 2018, 11:34:07 PM
Thomas, Several of the horseless carriage people are at our show this weekend from as far away as FL, and Louisiana. I will try and take some pictures of their "rides" tomorrow and post them here.

Bill
Title: Re: 1898 Automobile A.K.A. horseless carriage
Post by: Ye-Ole Steam Dude on October 13, 2018, 12:58:09 AM
Thomas, Several of the horseless carriage people are at our show this weekend from as far away as FL, and Louisiana. I will try and take some pictures of their "rides" tomorrow and post them here.

Bill

Hello Bill,

I sure would appreciate that. My brother was at the Cruising The Coast event this past weekend but none of the horseless carriage folks showed up this time. Normally there are quite a few in attendance.

Thank you and have a great weekend,
Thomas
Title: Re: 1898 Automobile A.K.A. horseless carriage
Post by: b.lindsey on October 14, 2018, 12:36:45 AM
Thomas here are a few pictures from today. The first is the curved front Olds built by a local friend who sadly passed a few years ago. The club still shows his Olds at these events. I don't have much info on the second one unfortunately. The balance of the pictures are of a build by a gentleman I talked to at some length. He started with one of the available plans but modified it a lot. He said the current engine is from a Honda motorcycle he bought second hand and then fit the engine to the chassis. Other mods include a stow away rumble seat. Hope these may be of some interest.

Bill
Title: Re: 1898 Automobile A.K.A. horseless carriage
Post by: b.lindsey on October 14, 2018, 12:37:32 AM
Found one more...the final drive on the Olds car.

Bill
Title: Re: 1898 Automobile A.K.A. horseless carriage
Post by: Ye-Ole Steam Dude on October 14, 2018, 01:00:10 AM
Thomas here are a few pictures from today. The first is the curved front Olds built by a local friend who sadly passed a few years ago. The club still shows his Olds at these events. I don't have much info on the second one unfortunately. The balance of the pictures are of a build by a gentleman I talked to at some length. He started with one of the available plans but modified it a lot. He said the current engine is from a Honda motorcycle he bought second hand and then fit the engine to the chassis. Other mods include a stow away rumble seat. Hope these may be of some interest.

Bill


Hi Bill,

Thanks so much, love all the old pictures that I can get. The first Olds was called the REO, which were Mr. Olds initials. I have some photos of the REO and will look them up. I know that I cannot, but it sure would be fun for me to attend your show sometime. I have copied and saved these to my folder.

Thanks again,
Thomas
Title: Re: 1898 Automobile A.K.A. horseless carriage
Post by: Ye-Ole Steam Dude on October 14, 2018, 01:04:18 AM
Found one more...the final drive on the Olds car.

Bill

Hey again,

Beautiful rear end, closed axle and note the grease cups for lubrication. That is some pretty sophisticated engineering for that time period. Some of those old dudes were pretty smart.

I appreciate your time taking theses photos.
Thomas
Title: Re: 1898 Automobile A.K.A. horseless carriage
Post by: b.lindsey on October 14, 2018, 01:30:29 AM
 Thomas, this gentleman aslso somehow attached a Harley Davidson clutch and transmission to the engine. This was the third engine he tried as the first two weren't powerful enough apparently, especially on an incline. Sorry, I keep recalling some of his comments.

Bill
Title: Re: 1898 Automobile A.K.A. horseless carriage
Post by: Ye-Ole Steam Dude on October 21, 2018, 02:13:45 PM
Hello everyone,

I have started on making the Rear Axle and the two Axle Hubs. The Axle Hubs will mount on to the Rear Axle and bolt up to the Wheel, this will secure the two rear Wheels to the Rear axle. I am modifying two chain sprockets to make the Axle Hubs. The sprockets have a 1-inch bore and a 1/4" keyway. I will machine a 1/4" keyway on both ends of the Axle after turning down and threading.

First I will remove the teeth and turn the OD down to a designed size. Then will turn the raised portion of the Hub down to 2.2898 inches od which will allow clearance for the bolt heads which secure the Hub to the Wheel. The next step will be to drill the five (5) holes for the 5/16" bolts.

Attached are two photos of the Sprocket and two pdf drawings of the work to be completed.

Have a great day,
Thomas
Title: Re: 1898 Automobile A.K.A. horseless carriage
Post by: Ye-Ole Steam Dude on October 24, 2018, 05:45:05 PM
Hello everyone,

Well I finally completed the two Axle Hub Adapters that connect the rear driven axle to the two rear wheels. This turned out to be a whole lot more work than I had anticipated, but I am very pleased with the way they turned out.

I have decided to make some short videos of the work that has been completed to date on the Buggy and have uploaded them to my YouTube channel. I am attaching one link which is to Part - 4 of the set.

Have a great day,
Thomas

e_Mv7LxalOw
Title: Re: 1898 Automobile A.K.A. horseless carriage
Post by: Ye-Ole Steam Dude on October 30, 2018, 10:11:16 PM
Hello everyone,

The last couple of days I have been working on the two front Spindles. Now have them almost completed and have attached some photos showing some of the assembly and a video. Pretty basic the way I designed them but a lot of parts requiring close attention so that each Spindle turns out correct. To make sure that nothing warped or became distorted, I made small welds and then let it cool down to ambient temperature before more welding. Hope to have them in primer and then final assembly within several more days.

Have a great day,
Thomas

Nv3-arv0oAs
Title: Re: 1898 Automobile A.K.A. horseless carriage
Post by: crueby on October 30, 2018, 10:39:55 PM
Excellent work Thomas! Great video to show how it all came together. Are the plans for that mechanism your own design?
Chris
 :popcorn: :popcorn: :popcorn:
Title: Re: 1898 Automobile A.K.A. horseless carriage
Post by: Ye-Ole Steam Dude on October 30, 2018, 10:53:14 PM
Excellent work Thomas! Great video to show how it all came together. Are the plans for that mechanism your own design?
Chris
 :popcorn: :popcorn: :popcorn:


Hello Chris,

Thank you for the nice comment and yes, the Buggy design is an original that I started to work on back in 2015 and completed it this year.

Have a great day,
Thomas
Title: Re: 1898 Automobile A.K.A. horseless carriage
Post by: b.lindsey on October 30, 2018, 11:20:13 PM
Nice progress Thomas. I have missed a day or so but caught up again now. It's looking great!!

Bill
Title: Re: 1898 Automobile A.K.A. horseless carriage
Post by: Ye-Ole Steam Dude on October 30, 2018, 11:30:11 PM
Nice progress Thomas. I have missed a day or so but caught up again now. It's looking great!!

Bill

Hello Bill and thank you.

Hope you are staying busy getting your shop ready so you can get back to working on a project.

Have a great day,
Thomas
Title: Re: 1898 Automobile A.K.A. horseless carriage
Post by: b.lindsey on October 30, 2018, 11:34:34 PM
Indeed I have Thomas with the shop and house both. I should get back to some real engine work in a week or so.

Bill
Title: Re: 1898 Automobile A.K.A. horseless carriage
Post by: bent on October 31, 2018, 04:46:16 PM
Good to see progress being made, keep up the good work, Thomas!
Title: Re: 1898 Automobile A.K.A. horseless carriage
Post by: Ye-Ole Steam Dude on October 31, 2018, 07:27:34 PM
Good to see progress being made, keep up the good work, Thomas!

Hello Bent,

Things are moving slowly now with these smaller parts being made. However I am really close to getting it to a rolling chassis and that will be a major step forward.

Have a great day,
Thomas
Title: Re: 1898 Automobile A.K.A. horseless carriage
Post by: Ye-Ole Steam Dude on November 01, 2018, 09:14:20 PM
Hello everyone,

Welded the Cross Link Arms on to both Front Spindles today. Also applied two coats of primer and two coats of black paint, all they need now are the Ball Joint Links to be bolted in place. I cut the tube Front Axle to the correct length, then marked half-circle cut out on both ends. I will mill out the half-circles which will allow the King Pin Bushing to be welded in place. I plan on making a jig-fixture to hold all the Front Axle parts in place when I weld everything. Another productive and fun day in the shop.

Have a great day,
Thomas
Title: Re: 1898 Automobile A.K.A. horseless carriage
Post by: crueby on November 01, 2018, 09:57:10 PM
Beauty!
All your photos need are a 2-foot-diameter penny to make it all look like a small model.   :Lol:

 :popcorn: :popcorn: :popcorn:
Title: Re: 1898 Automobile A.K.A. horseless carriage
Post by: Ye-Ole Steam Dude on November 02, 2018, 09:12:56 PM
Hello everyone,

Well another long day in the shop but did get a lot of work completed. Finished both Spindles and milled out the half-circles on each end of the Axle Tube. Made a super heavy duty jig-fixture to hold all the parts in place while being welded. Applied a coat of primer to the Axle after letting all the welds cool to ambient and got it reinstalled on the Chassis and then bolted each Spindle on to the Axle. I am attaching some progress photos and a short video.

Have a great day,
Thomas

oymz0teRny8
Title: Re: 1898 Automobile A.K.A. horseless carriage
Post by: b.lindsey on November 02, 2018, 09:23:35 PM
You had a good day in the shop. Looking good  :ThumbsUp:

Bill
Title: Re: 1898 Automobile A.K.A. horseless carriage
Post by: Vixen on November 02, 2018, 09:23:49 PM
Hi Thomas,

I am surprised to see no caster angle to help with self centering of the steering. I would have expected the spindles to lean backwards at about 10 to 15 degrees.

Mike
Title: Re: 1898 Automobile A.K.A. horseless carriage
Post by: Ye-Ole Steam Dude on November 02, 2018, 09:32:46 PM
Hi Thomas,

I am surprised to see no caster angle to help with self centering of the steering. I would have expected the spindles to lean backwards at about 10 to 15 degrees.

Mike

Hello Mike,

I actually thought about that and even made some drawings at 5 and 8 degrees. After looking at all the photos on some of the original Buggies I decided not to include the angle. I think because the original builders were Coach, Buggy, Wagon companies, etc, that they did not know about "tracking" and just used what they normally built.

Have a great day,
Thomas
Title: Re: 1898 Automobile A.K.A. horseless carriage
Post by: Vixen on November 02, 2018, 09:40:12 PM
Hello Mike,

I actually thought about that and even made some drawings at 5 and 8 degrees. After looking at all the photos on some of the original Buggies I decided not to include the angle. I think because the original builders were Coach, Buggy, Wagon companies, etc, that they did not know about "tracking" and just used what they normally built.

Have a great day,
Thomas

OK it's always good to be true to the original. The steering may be a little twitchy as a result, but your carriage will not be traveling so fast for this to be a problem. It's not like you are going to be flat out on the freeway. You can always cut and reweld the mounting plates if you have to.

Keep up the good work

Mike
Title: Re: 1898 Automobile A.K.A. horseless carriage
Post by: Ye-Ole Steam Dude on November 02, 2018, 09:50:56 PM
Hello Mike,

I actually thought about that and even made some drawings at 5 and 8 degrees. After looking at all the photos on some of the original Buggies I decided not to include the angle. I think because the original builders were Coach, Buggy, Wagon companies, etc, that they did not know about "tracking" and just used what they normally built.

Have a great day,
Thomas

OK it's always good to be true to the original. The steering may be a little twitchy as a result, but your carriage will not be traveling so fast for this to be a problem. It's not like you are going to be flat out on the freeway. You can always cut and reweld the mounting plates if you have to.

Keep up the good work

Mike


Hey again Mike,

One of my neighbors was over yesterday and ask me why I did not install un-equal A-arms.....and then he laughed  ;D. He also wants me to install a Chevy 350 and a 4-speed transmission. He is an old hot rodder and even his lawnmower runs fast.

Have a great day,
Thomas
Title: Re: 1898 Automobile A.K.A. horseless carriage
Post by: Ye-Ole Steam Dude on November 02, 2018, 09:55:02 PM
You had a good day in the shop. Looking good  :ThumbsUp:

Bill


Hello Bill,

Sure is nice to see half of the "wheel" parts completed. I need to make some spacer bushings for the front wheels and then they can be installed.

Thank you and have a great day,
Thomas
Title: Re: 1898 Automobile A.K.A. horseless carriage
Post by: Kim on November 03, 2018, 04:25:44 AM
Nice progress, Thomas, and nice video.
You're really moving along with this project!
Kim
Title: Re: 1898 Automobile A.K.A. horseless carriage
Post by: Ye-Ole Steam Dude on November 03, 2018, 07:27:46 AM
Nice progress, Thomas, and nice video.
You're really moving along with this project!
Kim


Hello Kim,

Thank you. At times it seems that I am in a time warp....2 days of work and no visible results. Then it all comes together and I get something completed.

Have a great day,
Thomas
Title: Re: 1898 Automobile A.K.A. horseless carriage
Post by: Ye-Ole Steam Dude on November 03, 2018, 03:22:48 PM
Hello everyone,
   
I have run into a strange problem with the Axle on each of the Spindles. This morning I tried to install the wheels on to the Spindles and could not get them to slide on past the end of the threads. I can take a piece of the 3/4 round bar that the Axles were made out of and slide it in the bearings with no problem. Note-1, it feels like a hydraulic cylinder, in other words slides OK but No slack, No tolerance.

I checked the OD on the raw material and the middle of the axle and both showed .748". Then I checked just past the “cut / gap” area going away from the threads and found it to be .751". Note-2, see photo showing the cut/gap that I machined for clearance when threading.

I hand filed the .751" area until I could get one of the bearings to slide on ( see photo ) and it felt like the raw material, No slack, No tolerance. The bearings must be an absolute .750" ID. There was a slight resistance on the bearing as it passed the “filed” area.

The raw material is 1018 which is pretty hard. My question; is it possible that the raw material expanded during the machining of the cut area? ? ?

Any help or suggestions is appreciated.

Have a great day,
Thomas
Title: Re: 1898 Automobile A.K.A. horseless carriage
Post by: Kim on November 03, 2018, 04:17:17 PM
I would have just thought that machining that gap for the end of the threads pushed up a little lip on the edge of the rod.  And that's what you would have had to file down.  This is something I've experienced quite often.

How wide was that over sized portion?   If it was very wide at all, then my theory probably isn't right.  I can't say as I've ever experienced a piece of 1018 changing in any significant way from a little machining like that.

Kim
Title: Re: 1898 Automobile A.K.A. horseless carriage
Post by: Ye-Ole Steam Dude on November 03, 2018, 04:25:06 PM
I would have just thought that machining that gap for the end of the threads pushed up a little lip on the edge of the rod.  And that's what you would have had to file down.  This is something I've experienced quite often.

How wide was that over sized portion?   If it was very wide at all, then my theory probably isn't right.  I can't say as I've ever experienced a piece of 1018 changing in any significant way from a little machining like that.

Kim

Hello Kim,

The "fat" area is over 1/4" wide. It just beats the heck out of me???? :hammerbash: :shrug:

I did run a file over the threads and that edge of the gap (the sharp edge) with the lathe running before removing the spindle. It is the same on the other spindle??? Had it not been at the same spot on both spindles then I would suspect a "flaw" on the raw stock.

Puzzled Thomas :shrug:
Title: Re: 1898 Automobile A.K.A. horseless carriage
Post by: Ye-Ole Steam Dude on November 03, 2018, 06:50:26 PM
Hello every one,

After a lot of hand file work on both of the Axles I was able to get the tires and wheels mounted temporarily. Not satisfied with the finish where I had to file so more finish work will be needed.

If anyone can figure out why the axles expanded in OD please let me know.

Have a great day,
Thomas
Title: Re: 1898 Automobile A.K.A. horseless carriage
Post by: Firebird on November 03, 2018, 08:26:36 PM
Hi Thomas

I have been following along quietly in the background and enjoying your build very much  :ThumbsUp:

One observation on your recent photos if I may.

The tyres are directional, (showing my motor trade training now). It looks like one is fitted correctly and the other is turning in the wrong direction. There should be a marking on the sidewall to tell you which is the correct way

Cheers

Rich
Title: Re: 1898 Automobile A.K.A. horseless carriage
Post by: Ye-Ole Steam Dude on November 03, 2018, 08:38:46 PM
Hi Thomas

I have been following along quietly in the background and enjoying your build very much  :ThumbsUp:

One observation on your recent photos if I may.

The tyres are directional, (showing my motor trade training now). It looks like one is fitted correctly and the other is turning in the wrong direction. There should be a marking on the sidewall to tell you which is the correct way

Cheers

Rich

Hello Rich,

You have a sharp eye, actually two of the tires were installed incorrectly. I had asked them to mount two right-side and two left-side but they gave me all four right-side. They mounted all of them to match the brake flange.

I have been so busy fussing with the front end that I have not re-mounted two of them.

Thank you and have a great day,
Thomas

PS, bye the way do you think this is enough toe-end?
Title: Re: 1898 Automobile A.K.A. horseless carriage
Post by: crueby on November 03, 2018, 08:56:45 PM

PS, bye the way do you think this is enough toe-end?
That much should make it easier to get up on two wheels!   :ROFL:
Title: Re: 1898 Automobile A.K.A. horseless carriage
Post by: Ye-Ole Steam Dude on November 03, 2018, 09:08:17 PM

PS, bye the way do you think this is enough toe-end?
That much should make it easier to get up on two wheels!   :ROFL:


 :lolb: :ROFL: :Lol: :agree:

Thomas
Title: Re: 1898 Automobile A.K.A. horseless carriage
Post by: bent on November 05, 2018, 04:51:29 PM
Thomas,

First, great progress, like how this is coming together!

On the o/s axle - is it possible that during threading the chuck squeezed the part slightly into a triangular shape (tri-lobe)?  This can be hard to detect with a typical 2-point measuring device like calipers or micrometers, but can be seen if checked with a 90-degree v-block and height gage, rolling around to measure several points along the circumference.  We occasionally get some of our 304 ss valve stems that come in tri-lobed and can't get them to stuff through the bushings, and the mike/caliper readings come out spot-on or even slightly undersized.  I've also gotten some raw bar stock with the same condition; it sounds like your bearings were checked on the raw stock and fitted ok though?
Title: Re: 1898 Automobile A.K.A. horseless carriage
Post by: Roger B on November 05, 2018, 07:10:59 PM
Slight tri lobbing by the chuck could be a problem. I have had problems with silver steel (drill rod) due to that. Still following along  :wine1:  :wine1: but it may be a long way to come for a trial drive  ::)
Title: Re: 1898 Automobile A.K.A. horseless carriage
Post by: Ye-Ole Steam Dude on November 05, 2018, 08:05:58 PM
Thomas,

First, great progress, like how this is coming together!

On the o/s axle - is it possible that during threading the chuck squeezed the part slightly into a triangular shape (tri-lobe)?  This can be hard to detect with a typical 2-point measuring device like calipers or micrometers, but can be seen if checked with a 90-degree v-block and height gage, rolling around to measure several points along the circumference.  We occasionally get some of our 304 ss valve stems that come in tri-lobed and can't get them to stuff through the bushings, and the mike/caliper readings come out spot-on or even slightly undersized.  I've also gotten some raw bar stock with the same condition; it sounds like your bearings were checked on the raw stock and fitted ok though?

Hello Bent,

Well your thinking is the best answer so far. Now that I am thinking back, that area is about where I had it in the chuck, however the "swollen" is smaller than the length of each chuck jaw. I did check the OD with my digital micrometers but I did not check all around. And yes, I did check the bearings on the original bar stock.

This just beats the heck out of me. Until someone comes up with a better explanation, I am accepting your answer so that I can sleep at night..... :insane:

Have a great day,
Thomas

Title: Re: 1898 Automobile A.K.A. horseless carriage
Post by: Ye-Ole Steam Dude on November 05, 2018, 08:11:53 PM
Slight tri lobbing by the chuck could be a problem. I have had problems with silver steel (drill rod) due to that. Still following along  :wine1:  :wine1: but it may be a long way to come for a trial drive  ::)

Hello Roger,

I have visited your beautiful country and it should not be much of a trip for you to come and take a test drive with me. I might be getting the Buggy before the horse (pun intended), I still have a lot of work to complete and not sure this darn thing will even run...stay tuned and I will keep you updated. :noidea:

Have a great day,
Thomas
Title: Re: 1898 Automobile A.K.A. horseless carriage
Post by: Roger B on November 05, 2018, 08:26:38 PM
Maybe it could be planned together with a  visit to Eric's (Tennessee Whiskey's) invitation exhibition. I would need to look at a map (or perhaps a globe) I'm not so sure of US geography. If I drive for four hours in any direction here I run out of Switzerland. The US is rather larger  ::)
Title: Re: 1898 Automobile A.K.A. horseless carriage
Post by: crueby on November 05, 2018, 09:35:32 PM
Maybe it could be planned together with a  visit to Eric's (Tennessee Whiskey's) invitation exhibition. I would need to look at a map (or perhaps a globe) I'm not so sure of US geography. If I drive for four hours in any direction here I run out of Switzerland. The US is rather larger  ::)
Here it can take longer than that to get out of one state, though your scenery is hard to match!
Title: Re: 1898 Automobile A.K.A. horseless carriage
Post by: Ye-Ole Steam Dude on November 05, 2018, 10:11:23 PM
Maybe it could be planned together with a  visit to Eric's (Tennessee Whiskey's) invitation exhibition. I would need to look at a map (or perhaps a globe) I'm not so sure of US geography. If I drive for four hours in any direction here I run out of Switzerland. The US is rather larger  ::)

Hey again Roger,

Yeah, 4-hours drive in Texas might get you out of one of our counties  :ROFL:

If I am feeling up to it, I sure would like to attend Tennessee Whiskey's invitation exhibition and of course bring the Buggy and a few of my engines. Where he is located is near the center of the state so it would be a full days drive for me. Sure would be nice to meet some of the Forum Folks face to face.

Have a great day,
Thomas

Title: Re: 1898 Automobile A.K.A. horseless carriage
Post by: Ye-Ole Steam Dude on November 05, 2018, 10:14:01 PM
Maybe it could be planned together with a  visit to Eric's (Tennessee Whiskey's) invitation exhibition. I would need to look at a map (or perhaps a globe) I'm not so sure of US geography. If I drive for four hours in any direction here I run out of Switzerland. The US is rather larger  ::)
Here it can take longer than that to get out of one state, though your scenery is hard to match!


Hello Chris,

Where I live over here on Sam Rayburn Lake, it is closer to Chicago than El Paso, Texas?

Have a great day,
Thomas
Title: Re: 1898 Automobile A.K.A. horseless carriage
Post by: crueby on November 05, 2018, 10:47:50 PM
Maybe it could be planned together with a  visit to Eric's (Tennessee Whiskey's) invitation exhibition. I would need to look at a map (or perhaps a globe) I'm not so sure of US geography. If I drive for four hours in any direction here I run out of Switzerland. The US is rather larger  ::)
Here it can take longer than that to get out of one state, though your scenery is hard to match!


Hello Chris,

Where I live over here on Sam Rayburn Lake, it is closer to Chicago than El Paso, Texas?

Have a great day,
Thomas
Dang, thats a big state!
Title: Re: 1898 Automobile A.K.A. horseless carriage
Post by: bent on November 06, 2018, 08:16:53 PM
Roger,

Has your profile always said Switzerland?  Somehow I thought you lived over this side of the pond.  My wife and I spent a week there (week of Swiss National Day), and a week in the Italian alps/lakes just last summer.  It was a bucket list trip for me, and the Alps lived up to their reputation, it was spectacular.
Title: Re: 1898 Automobile A.K.A. horseless carriage
Post by: Ye-Ole Steam Dude on November 07, 2018, 08:35:21 PM
Hello everyone,

Working on the Rear Axle again and machining the four Hub Spacer Bushings that will fit inside the Wheel Hubs to replace the ball bearings. The drawings shows the dimensions and one completed unit. I machined in the lathe two units at a time so that I could make “matched pairs”. With the bearings removed you can see inside the Wheel Hub and the offset. The Bushing fits inside this opening and then the Hub Adapter that I made earlier will bolt to the flange on the Wheel. Should finish the other two Bushings tomorrow and maybe get started on the 1-inch Axle.

Have a great day,
Thomas
Title: Re: 1898 Automobile A.K.A. horseless carriage
Post by: crueby on November 07, 2018, 08:51:30 PM
 :popcorn: :popcorn: :popcorn:
Title: Re: 1898 Automobile A.K.A. horseless carriage
Post by: b.lindsey on November 07, 2018, 11:18:43 PM
Yikes!!!!

Bill
Title: Re: 1898 Automobile A.K.A. horseless carriage
Post by: Ye-Ole Steam Dude on November 24, 2018, 08:28:24 PM
Hello everyone,

Working on the Rear Axle completing the threading on both ends. I turned the 1-inch (1018 steel) axle down to 3/4-inch and threaded that area 3/4-16 thread. The axle is so long and heavy (15-pounds) I used a stand with a ball bearing flange to support the outside end. While the axle was still in the lathe, I test fit the various parts that will make up one side of the Rear Wheel/Tire assembly.  Next will be to mark and mill out the key ways on both ends and in the middle. Then the axle will be ready to install on to the Chassis. Really getting close now... :cartwheel:

Have a great day,
Thomas
Title: Re: 1898 Automobile A.K.A. horseless carriage
Post by: crueby on November 24, 2018, 08:31:50 PM
Very nice!  Looking forward to seeing you screaming down the street!
 :popcorn: :popcorn: :popcorn:
Title: Re: 1898 Automobile A.K.A. horseless carriage
Post by: b.lindsey on November 24, 2018, 08:33:03 PM
Looking good Thomas. Nice to see an update.

Bill
Title: Re: 1898 Automobile A.K.A. horseless carriage
Post by: Ye-Ole Steam Dude on November 24, 2018, 08:38:49 PM
Very nice!  Looking forward to seeing you screaming down the street!
 :popcorn: :popcorn: :popcorn:


Hello Chris,

....screaming?????.....

Have a great day,
Thomas
Title: Re: 1898 Automobile A.K.A. horseless carriage
Post by: Ye-Ole Steam Dude on November 24, 2018, 08:40:51 PM
Looking good Thomas. Nice to see an update.

Bill

Hello Bill,

Thanks, seems like a turkey got in my way the last couple of days and did not get any work done in the shop.

Have a great day,
Thomas
Title: Re: 1898 Automobile A.K.A. horseless carriage
Post by: crueby on November 24, 2018, 08:42:39 PM
Very nice!  Looking forward to seeing you screaming down the street!
 :popcorn: :popcorn: :popcorn:


Hello Chris,

....screaming?????.....

Have a great day,
Thomas
Well, the car should scream right along. Okay, trundle quickly?Then, if the brakes don't work, you will be the one screaming!   :Lol:
Title: Re: 1898 Automobile A.K.A. horseless carriage
Post by: Ye-Ole Steam Dude on November 25, 2018, 02:20:15 PM
Hello everyone,

Here are several photos of the Rear Driven Axle temporarily assembled so that I can mark the location where the key ways are to be machined. I will mark the locations with blue tape and then confirm the dimensions with my original drawings before doing any machining. I am really pleased and relived that everything fit perfectly.

Boy I don’t know how a simple axle can become so complicated and require so much time to build, :noidea: he he he. Never the mind, it is almost finished now, more to come.

Have a great day,
Thomas
Title: Re: 1898 Automobile A.K.A. horseless carriage
Post by: Kim on November 25, 2018, 02:53:41 PM
Yeah, its amazing how much time some of these seemingly simple parts can take!  But it is looking great!  :ThumbsUp:

Thomas, what's the big disk for that's by the drive sprocket in the middle?

Kim

PS  Nice selection of fishing poles you have there too!  Is that another hobby of yours?  Displaying fishing poles  :Lol:
Title: Re: 1898 Automobile A.K.A. horseless carriage
Post by: Ye-Ole Steam Dude on November 25, 2018, 03:05:56 PM
Yeah, its amazing how much time some of these seemingly simple parts can take!  But it is looking great!  :ThumbsUp:

Thomas, what's the big disk for that's by the drive sprocket in the middle?

Kim

PS  Nice selection of fishing poles you have there too!  Is that another hobby of yours?  Displaying fishing poles  :Lol:

Hello Kim,

The large disc next to the sprocket is the Disc Brake. Yep, this is one of those "little" projects that took over 2 weeks.

I use to hand make all my fly rods and over time wound up with over 25 and ran out of rack space so I built that rack in the photo to hold my casting rods. That is in my living room  :embarassed:, had to do the assembly in there because not enough room out in the shop.

Have a great day,
Thomas
Title: Re: 1898 Automobile A.K.A. horseless carriage
Post by: bent on November 26, 2018, 07:44:39 PM
Wow, lotta progress, Thomas!

Curious, but I assume the bushings are just temporary replacements for the bearings whilst you do fitup and dimension checking?  And that the axles will eventually get some bearings at final assembly.
Title: Re: 1898 Automobile A.K.A. horseless carriage
Post by: Ye-Ole Steam Dude on November 26, 2018, 09:27:59 PM
Wow, lotta progress, Thomas!

Curious, but I assume the bushings are just temporary replacements for the bearings whilst you do fitup and dimension checking?  And that the axles will eventually get some bearings at final assembly.


Hello Bent,
 
Yes I am getting a bit more work completed on the Rear Driven Axle and will finish cutting the four key ways today. Then it is a matter of installing the Axle and all of the components in the Closed Axle Housings on the Engine Frame. The Hub Spacer Inserts (bushings) replace the ball bearings in the Wheel hubs. The Rear Wheels are secured to the Axle by the Hub Flange Adapter which has a 1/4" key way and two set screws that secure them to the Axle. The Rear Axle and Wheels are free to turn in the four Flange Bearings which are bolted to each end of the Closed Axle Housings.

Have a great day,
Thomas
Title: Re: 1898 Automobile A.K.A. horseless carriage
Post by: crueby on November 26, 2018, 09:52:09 PM
Impressive progress!
Couple things though: will Julian be drawing plans for this vehicle, and where is the giant ruler in some of the shots for scale of this 'model'?   :ROFL:
 :popcorn: :popcorn: :popcorn:
Title: Re: 1898 Automobile A.K.A. horseless carriage
Post by: Ye-Ole Steam Dude on November 26, 2018, 10:26:21 PM
Impressive progress!
Couple things though: will Julian be drawing plans for this vehicle, and where is the giant ruler in some of the shots for scale of this 'model'?   :ROFL:
 :popcorn: :popcorn: :popcorn:


Hello Chris,

rrr uuummm  uhaaa  :Doh:

Have a great day,
Thomas

Title: Re: 1898 Automobile A.K.A. horseless carriage
Post by: Ye-Ole Steam Dude on November 27, 2018, 10:27:13 PM
Hello Everyone,

Where there is a will there is a way...the Rear Axle is too wide for my small shop to slip into the Closed Axle Housings so I moved the Chassis back even with the door that goes into my house. Opened the door and was able to slip the Axle in with very little effort. I applied a good coat of Cop-Graf all over the Axle as I slid it into the Housing. There is still a lot of work to do, installing key stock, tightening all the set screws, alignment of the Driven Sprocket and the Brake Disc and some miscellaneous items, but we now have a stage-three rolling Chassis. This turned out to be one heck of a job but I am so pleased with the results.  :whoohoo: :cartwheel:

Next up will be to build and install all of the Steering system.

Have a great day,
Thomas
Title: Re: 1898 Automobile A.K.A. horseless carriage
Post by: crueby on November 27, 2018, 10:42:18 PM
Nice! Handy place for a door, good planning when building the house....

Never heard of CopGraf before, had to go look that one up (anti-sieze compound). Does that have lubrication properties, would it be useful on the models for bearings and such? Or is it just to keep parts from siezing?
Title: Re: 1898 Automobile A.K.A. horseless carriage
Post by: Ye-Ole Steam Dude on November 28, 2018, 12:58:54 AM
Nice! Handy place for a door, good planning when building the house....

Never heard of CopGraf before, had to go look that one up (anti-sieze compound). Does that have lubrication properties, would it be useful on the models for bearings and such? Or is it just to keep parts from siezing?


Hello Chris,

Yes it has graphite and is SUPER slick, heat resistant, water proof, etc... This is really good stuff. You get it on your hands and it takes a lot of washing to get it off. Another brand (?spelling) Kopper-Kote I have used for many years in the marine industry.

Here is a link  https://www.antiseize.com/cop-graf-copper-and-graphite-based-anti-seize

Had to go look this one up: Kopr-Kote
https://www.jetlube.com/pages/kopr-koteIND.html

Have a great day,
Thomas
Title: Re: 1898 Automobile A.K.A. horseless carriage
Post by: bent on November 28, 2018, 05:30:18 PM
Ah, got it, did not realize all 4 wheels had roller bearings as-purchased.  You are just about ready for a test drive, just steering gear and motor mounting, then sit on a bucket and take it for a spin!  :D
Title: Re: 1898 Automobile A.K.A. horseless carriage
Post by: Ye-Ole Steam Dude on November 28, 2018, 05:35:56 PM
Ah, got it, did not realize all 4 wheels had roller bearings as-purchased.  You are just about ready for a test drive, just steering gear and motor mounting, then sit on a bucket and take it for a spin!  :D

Hello Bent,

The bucket sounds like a good idea. Spent most of this morning ordering parts to build the steering system, so now I have to wait for delivery. I am hoping that installing the motor, CVT, FRN transmission and misc parts will not be a big deal.

Have a great day,
Thomas
Title: Re: 1898 Automobile A.K.A. horseless carriage
Post by: Ye-Ole Steam Dude on November 28, 2018, 08:25:20 PM
Hello everybody,

I have put together another video, this is Part - 8 about building the Buggy.

Have a great day,
Thomas

aKu2YbZc4yE
Title: Re: 1898 Automobile A.K.A. horseless carriage
Post by: Cajun One on November 29, 2018, 06:10:07 AM
Great job Thomas your work is outstanding.. I have read through your build and pictures and have a question about the spring perches the ones on the frame are made out of angle iron and the ones on top of the axles or flat plate correct, are you going to put a arch of some type in them to match the curve of the springs are just tighten the bolts and just have a flat spot in the springs???  I'm planing on building one as well hope I have good luck as you are, I'm just in the planing stages now to cold in IL now.. Thanks again and great job :ThumbsUp: :ThumbsUp: :ThumbsUp:
Title: Re: 1898 Automobile A.K.A. horseless carriage
Post by: Ye-Ole Steam Dude on November 29, 2018, 09:07:00 AM
Great job Thomas your work is outstanding.. I have read through your build and pictures and have a question about the spring perches the ones on the frame are made out of angle iron and the ones on top of the axles or flat plate correct, are you going to put a arch of some type in them to match the curve of the springs are just tighten the bolts and just have a flat spot in the springs???  I'm planing on building one as well hope I have good luck as you are, I'm just in the planing stages now to cold in IL now.. Thanks again and great job :ThumbsUp: :ThumbsUp: :ThumbsUp:

Hello Wade,

First off welcome to the MEM forum.

Yes you are correct about the bottom Spring Perch being made from flat plate. I have some heavy duty rubber washers that will fit between the Perch and the Spring on just the front and rear bolts and act as a "spacer" on both the top and the bottom of each Spring. This allows me to make some fine adjustments to the position of the Axle relative to the Chassis. The Center bolt will always be tightened down "snug", but the bolts in front and in the rear can be adjusted causing the Spring to "roll" forward or backward a bit. Of course all the bolts will have aircraft grade self locking nuts on the final assembly. Good luck with your build and hope you share with us.

Have a great day,
Thomas
Title: Re: 1898 Automobile A.K.A. horseless carriage
Post by: Ye-Ole Steam Dude on December 06, 2018, 04:35:49 PM
Hello Everyone,

I have started on the steering system and have made a big change in my design. Originally I had a Rack & Pinion and changed that to a steering box, but did not like the finished look. So now I have gone back to the Rack & Pinion design and have to make several changes. The steering Linkage will be made out of ½" black iron pipe which has a .840" od. This will be very strong and be the right size in scale for the overall looks. I machined each end so that I can weld a 3/8" fine thread Coupling Nut which will accept the Tie Rod Ends. The second photo shows the Tie Rod Ends that will be used and one of the U-joints and the Rack & Pinion. Once I get the Tie Rods assembled and the Rack & Pinion temporarily mounted I will post more photos.

Have a great day,
Thomas
Title: Re: 1898 Automobile A.K.A. horseless carriage
Post by: crueby on December 06, 2018, 04:47:06 PM
Did you make the rack and pinion yourself?


 :popcorn: :popcorn: :popcorn:
Title: Re: 1898 Automobile A.K.A. horseless carriage
Post by: Ye-Ole Steam Dude on December 06, 2018, 05:49:42 PM
Did you make the rack and pinion yourself?


 :popcorn: :popcorn: :popcorn:

Hello Chris,

No, I surely do not have that capability. It was designed for off road racing and is extra strong and precession built.

Have a great day,
Thomas
Title: Re: 1898 Automobile A.K.A. horseless carriage
Post by: Ye-Ole Steam Dude on December 07, 2018, 07:31:21 PM
Hello Everyone,

Got both Drag Links built today. I cut the ½" Sch40 black pipe to length and inserted the 3/8" Coupling Nuts and then welded them in place. Put them in the lathe and turned down around the weld to a final shape. Next I will make the Chassis Hanger Brackets that one end of the Drag Links will bolt on to. I have to mount the Rack and Pinion before making the Axle Hanger Brackets.

Have a great day,
Thomas
Title: Re: 1898 Automobile A.K.A. horseless carriage
Post by: b.lindsey on December 08, 2018, 01:10:56 AM
More good progress Thomas. I am really looking forward to the bodywork as well.

Bill
Title: Re: 1898 Automobile A.K.A. horseless carriage
Post by: Ye-Ole Steam Dude on December 08, 2018, 01:33:09 AM
Hello Bill,

It will be a while before I can start on the body, so many small parts keep taking a long time to complete. Those Coupling Nuts that I ordered were not to a standard dimension. A 3/8" nut normally takes a 9/16 wrench and these were a bit smaller and took a 1/2" wrench. I was expecting to either turn the nut down to fit inside the pipe or do a slight bore. I wound up having to make a fixture to hold both the pipe and a nut so that the nut would be centered while being tacked in place. No big deal but it took a lot longer than expected. I still have both Tie Rods to make using the fixture.

Have a great day,
Thomas
Title: Re: 1898 Automobile A.K.A. horseless carriage
Post by: Cajun One on December 11, 2018, 10:32:28 PM
Great job Thomas glad to see you back at it what awesome work you doing fantastic skills. :ThumbsUp: :ThumbsUp: :ThumbsUp:
Title: Re: 1898 Automobile A.K.A. horseless carriage
Post by: Ye-Ole Steam Dude on December 12, 2018, 12:17:38 AM
Hello Wade,

Thank you. Work is going a bit slow because I am having to do so much reverse-engineering since I changed back to the Rack & Pinion steering system. Should have some photos ready to upload by tomorrow if all goes as planned. I am really pleased with this new setup, it is neat and clean and should work much better than the old arrangement.

Have a great day,
Thomas

Title: Re: 1898 Automobile A.K.A. horseless carriage
Post by: bent on December 12, 2018, 04:16:10 PM
Yup, I think you made a good choice Thomas, and not just because that rack and pinion box looks so sexy...but that doesn't hurt either!  Keep up the good work. :)
Title: Re: 1898 Automobile A.K.A. horseless carriage
Post by: Ye-Ole Steam Dude on December 12, 2018, 10:43:53 PM
Yup, I think you made a good choice Thomas, and not just because that rack and pinion box looks so sexy...but that doesn't hurt either!  Keep up the good work. :)


Hello Bent,

Thank you, the Rack & Pinion has been a bit more work, mainly because I change from my drawings, but it sure works good. Did not get as much completed as I wanted today but the attached photos will show that I did get all the parts temporarily in place. This allowed me to confirm that everything fit and worked without any interference. Mounting the Rack & Pinion on the Axle eliminated any change in dimensions of the Tie Rods geometry while driving. The Front Axle and all Steering components are now one unit.

Have a great day,
Thomas
Title: Re: 1898 Automobile A.K.A. horseless carriage
Post by: b.lindsey on December 12, 2018, 10:55:24 PM
Will anything be coming out of those boots Thomas? Just curious.

Bill
Title: Re: 1898 Automobile A.K.A. horseless carriage
Post by: Ye-Ole Steam Dude on December 12, 2018, 11:13:44 PM
Will anything be coming out of those boots Thomas? Just curious.

Bill


Hello Bill,

No, those "boots" are to cover and protect the ends of the Rack as it moves from one side to the other. As you know, most rack & pinions do have the tie rods attach on the ends of the rack. I choose this style for several reasons but mainly because it allowed me to locate it above the axle and still keep the "connection points" on the Rack level with the Tie Rods.

Have a great day,
Thomas
Title: Re: 1898 Automobile A.K.A. horseless carriage
Post by: b.lindsey on December 12, 2018, 11:14:49 PM
Thanks Thomas, that makes sense!!

Bill
Title: Re: 1898 Automobile A.K.A. horseless carriage
Post by: Ye-Ole Steam Dude on December 13, 2018, 10:22:39 AM
Hello everyone,

Just posted another video to youtube covering the steering system on the Buggy. It turned out a bit long but I am trying to show as much of the details as possible to help those folks that plan to build a similar car.

Have a great day,
Thomas

PSa0svUbpGA
Title: Re: 1898 Automobile A.K.A. horseless carriage
Post by: Ye-Ole Steam Dude on December 13, 2018, 04:44:53 PM
Hello Everyone,

Used my Press to make some special bends on some 1/4" thick flat iron today. These Brackets will be welded to the inside face of the Front Axle to connect the Drag Link Bars. I moved the Drag Links from parallel to the Chassis, to a “wishbone” style which places them at an angle to the Chassis and Axle.

Have a great day,
Thomas
Title: Re: 1898 Automobile A.K.A. horseless carriage
Post by: Roger B on December 13, 2018, 05:45:02 PM
That's a lot of progress since I last looked in  :praise2:  :praise2:

Bent, I have been in Switzerland all the time I have been a member of MEM although I am originally from England. I think that the profile used to show the Swiss flag but then something changed and I had to add Switzerland again.
Title: Re: 1898 Automobile A.K.A. horseless carriage
Post by: bent on December 14, 2018, 03:40:24 PM
Yup, looks good Thomas!

Roger, I guess I am mixed up, not an uncommon occurrence.  My wife and I toured the Swiss Alps this last summer, it was a fun vacation.
Title: Re: 1898 Automobile A.K.A. horseless carriage
Post by: Ye-Ole Steam Dude on December 14, 2018, 05:37:21 PM
Yup, looks good Thomas!



Hello Bent,

Thank you and I am pleased with the way this setup has turned out.

Have a great day,
Thomas
Title: Re: 1898 Automobile A.K.A. horseless carriage
Post by: Ye-Ole Steam Dude on December 14, 2018, 07:32:44 PM
Hello Everyone,

It appears that Chris and other forum members are rewarded with lots of cookies after completing work on one of their projects. An acknowledgment, of sorts, of their fine work.  :LickLips:

Well I’m not sure what the implication is, but I was only given one cookie for the work completed so far on the Buggy Project?  :embarassed:

Have a great day,
Thomas
Title: Re: 1898 Automobile A.K.A. horseless carriage
Post by: crueby on December 14, 2018, 09:35:04 PM
Dang, dude!  Thats not a cookie.  Thats a COOKIE!!


Though it is in scale to your 'model'!!!


After all your work its deserved!
Title: Re: 1898 Automobile A.K.A. horseless carriage
Post by: Ye-Ole Steam Dude on December 14, 2018, 10:48:08 PM
Dang, dude!  Thats not a cookie.  Thats a COOKIE!!


Though it is in scale to your 'model'!!!


After all your work its deserved!


Hello Chris,  :ROFL:

I was too busy to make all those little dough balls, so I dumped it out on a pizza pan and stuck it in the oven.

Have a great day,
Thomas
Title: Re: 1898 Automobile A.K.A. horseless carriage
Post by: b.lindsey on December 15, 2018, 12:59:50 AM
That will feed a lot of  shop gnomes!!!  :o

Bill
Title: Re: 1898 Automobile A.K.A. horseless carriage
Post by: bent on December 17, 2018, 08:27:42 PM
Shop gnomes would probably be daunted by the size of that thing - the noise they'd make trying to haul it away would alert you to their presence!
Title: Re: 1898 Automobile A.K.A. horseless carriage
Post by: crueby on December 17, 2018, 08:30:53 PM
Shop gnomes would probably be daunted by the size of that thing - the noise they'd make trying to haul it away would alert you to their presence!
Or all the cheering when they found it....
Title: Re: 1898 Automobile A.K.A. horseless carriage
Post by: Ye-Ole Steam Dude on December 17, 2018, 08:44:14 PM
Shop gnomes would probably be daunted by the size of that thing - the noise they'd make trying to haul it away would alert you to their presence!


Hello Bent,

I would hope so  :agree:

Have a great holiday,
Thomas
Title: Re: 1898 Automobile A.K.A. horseless carriage
Post by: Ye-Ole Steam Dude on December 17, 2018, 08:45:26 PM
Shop gnomes would probably be daunted by the size of that thing - the noise they'd make trying to haul it away would alert you to their presence!
Or all the cheering when they found it....

Hello Chris,

 :Lol: :ROFL: :lolb: :naughty:

Have a great holiday,
Thomas
Title: Re: 1898 Automobile A.K.A. horseless carriage
Post by: Ye-Ole Steam Dude on December 24, 2018, 06:42:35 PM
Hello Everyone,

More work on the front end for the Buggy and when this is all reassembled it will stay in place until everything is striped down for the final paint job.

First photo is of one of the brackets welded to the cross member on the Chassis that one of the Drag Links connects to. I have set up the Drag Links in a wishbone pattern but with two contact points on the Chassis versa one point. This offers more strength and twice as much adjustment if needed.

The second photo is showing both Drag Links in place and connected to the brackets on the cross member.

The third photo shows the under side of the Front Axle with the stop bracket welded in place. There are two stop brackets, one on each end of the Axle, and they limit the amount of travel that the Wheels / Tires can be turned. As you can see, I have welded a nut on the back side of the bracket and installed a second nut on the front side along with an “adjustment” bolt. This will allow me to limit and adjust the amount of travel of the Tires / Wheels if ever needed.

As soon as the primer dries I can reassemble the Front End and get it installed back onto the Chassis. Next up will be installing the Engine, CVT, Transmission and all the rest of the drive system.

Thanks for following along this year and I wish every body a safe and Happy Holiday,
Thomas
Title: Re: 1898 Automobile A.K.A. horseless carriage
Post by: crueby on December 24, 2018, 07:26:48 PM
More impressive work, very interesting to watch it come together!
Title: Re: 1898 Automobile A.K.A. horseless carriage
Post by: Kim on December 24, 2018, 08:45:54 PM
This is very interesting Thomas.

I'm not much of a car guy (guess I skipped that phase growing up), so can you help me understand the goal of the Drag Links?  Are they to provide torsional strength to the front axle, so that it is held in place by more than just the springs?  Or is there some other function too?

I'm learning a lot from your build here, Thomas! Thanks :)
Kim
Title: Re: 1898 Automobile A.K.A. horseless carriage
Post by: Ye-Ole Steam Dude on December 24, 2018, 08:58:46 PM
More impressive work, very interesting to watch it come together!

Hello Chris,

Thank you and hope you and the family have a wonderful Holiday.

Thomas
Title: Re: 1898 Automobile A.K.A. horseless carriage
Post by: Ye-Ole Steam Dude on December 24, 2018, 09:11:44 PM
This is very interesting Thomas.

I'm not much of a car guy (guess I skipped that phase growing up), so can you help me understand the goal of the Drag Links?  Are they to provide torsional strength to the front axle, so that it is held in place by more than just the springs?  Or is there some other function too?

I'm learning a lot from your build here, Thomas! Thanks :)
Kim

Hello Kim,

The short answer is Yes. However they not only maintain a fixed dimension square to the Chassis and Rear Axle, they allow a "twisting" of the Front Axle as it goes over uneven ground. And they maintain the center line dimension of the Front Axle from side loads. They also reduce / restrict the "rolling" action, that is to maintain the vertical center of the King Pin closely to 90 degrees to mother earth (road).

I could have made a lot simpler front end system that would have worked OK for this small car, but I kind of get carried away sometimes with my engineering. Building Hot Rods as a young man and doing quite a bit of racing, I learned to lean to the extra safety side when ever possible.

Hope you and the family have a great Holiday.

Thomas
Title: Re: 1898 Automobile A.K.A. horseless carriage
Post by: Kim on December 24, 2018, 09:22:08 PM
Thanks for the explanation, Thomas.

Same to you!  Have a Merry Christmas and a Happy New year! :)
Kim
Title: Re: 1898 Automobile A.K.A. horseless carriage
Post by: Ye-Ole Steam Dude on December 26, 2018, 08:15:48 PM
Hello everyone,

Here is another video showing the installation of the Drag Links ( completed now ) and the Stop Brackets on the Front Axle. The Front End is now installed on the Chassis and is complete except for the finial paint when all work on the entire Chassis is finished. I am really satisfied with the way all of this has turned out and so glad that I made the change to the Rack and Pinion style of steering system.

J8kimc6tS0U
Have a great day,
Thomas

PS: Chris you questioned if the Buggy would fit through the door, note it does and has been turned around (but just barely).
Title: Re: 1898 Automobile A.K.A. horseless carriage
Post by: crueby on December 26, 2018, 08:24:49 PM
Very nice, coming along great!
 :popcorn: :popcorn: :popcorn:
Title: Re: 1898 Automobile A.K.A. horseless carriage
Post by: Ye-Ole Steam Dude on December 28, 2018, 01:39:19 PM
Hello everyone,

OK the Buggy is now looking more like an automobile. As you can see from the photos the Engine, CVT w/belt, Transmission and Jackshaft are now temporarily installed in place. A lot of small items need to be built and fitted into place to get all theses parts to work together. All the cutout work on the Engine Plate appears to be spot on because so far everything is in alignment as designed.

Have a great day,
Thomas
Title: Re: 1898 Automobile A.K.A. horseless carriage
Post by: Kim on December 28, 2018, 06:16:36 PM
What?  I thought you were going to make it steam powered!  :Jester:

Looking good Thomas!  I'll be interesting to see how you mount everything there.  This is quite a project!
Kim
Title: Re: 1898 Automobile A.K.A. horseless carriage
Post by: crueby on December 28, 2018, 06:29:54 PM
 :popcorn: :popcorn: :popcorn:
Title: Re: 1898 Automobile A.K.A. horseless carriage
Post by: Admiral_dk on December 28, 2018, 08:13:15 PM
I would have tried to aim for one less layshaft (if possible) - other than that the transmission placement looks fine.
Where did you get the transmission from - did it come with the engine ?

Only other slightly annoying thing is the oil plugs (dip + entry ?) - but I'm guessing that you at least has control over what is placed where, in order to not obstruct any further  :thinking:

Best wishes

Per
Title: Re: 1898 Automobile A.K.A. horseless carriage
Post by: Ye-Ole Steam Dude on December 28, 2018, 09:20:02 PM
What?  I thought you were going to make it steam powered!  :Jester:

Looking good Thomas!  I'll be interesting to see how you mount everything there.  This is quite a project!
Kim

Hello Kim,

Look closer and you will see the "New" style of steam engine. Believe it or not I did seriously consider making a steam driven car when I first started, but after all the research I decided to move into the modern age of 1898 and take advantage of the Petrol Driven Engine. All of the components (Engine, tranny etc) are bolted down as you see them now and will only need slight forward / aft adjustment when the chains are added. I appreciate you following along.

Have a great day,
Thomas
Title: Re: 1898 Automobile A.K.A. horseless carriage
Post by: Ye-Ole Steam Dude on December 28, 2018, 09:48:28 PM
I would have tried to aim for one less layshaft (if possible) - other than that the transmission placement looks fine.
Where did you get the transmission from - did it come with the engine ?

Only other slightly annoying thing is the oil plugs (dip + entry ?) - but I'm guessing that you at least has control over what is placed where, in order to not obstruct any further  :thinking:

Best wishes
Per


Hello Per,

In order for me to be able to A) control the final top speed and B) keep the final Driven Sprocket small I had to include the Jackshaft assembly. Yes it does involve another chain and sprocket but it keeps the "drive system" as clean and simple as possible.

The Transmission is a Comet by brand and to my knowledge is the last new one in North America. Long story here but to keep it simple, Comet sold out to another company. The new company did not begin or continue production on all of the Comet products and unfortunately  for me the transmission was one of the products that production stopped. The rumor is that in time production will be continued on the transmissions. I of course had completed all my design work and did not want to substitute another brand, but could have if absolutely required. I was lucky enough to find my unit in a dealer's stock that was not known to be on the market.

As for the oil plug location, another reason that I choose this particular engine is because it has two (2) oil plugs. Look at the attached photo to the right, and below the starter, you will see the Yellow Oil Plug Cap and note it's location. There is a second Oil Plug on the same side of the engine but to the rear in a "like" location. Either plug can be reached for service but the front one is unobstructed completely. I will pipe in a drain line with a valve and a pipe cap that will allow the oil to drained below and to the front of the engine that will allow easy service. 

I appreciate you close observation and sharing with me, this could help me with a problem that I could have overlooked.

Thanks again and have a great day,
Thomas
Title: Re: 1898 Automobile A.K.A. horseless carriage
Post by: Roger B on December 29, 2018, 08:08:59 AM
Coming along nicely  :praise2: It's always good when the parts all end up in the planned positions  :)  :wine1:
Title: Re: 1898 Automobile A.K.A. horseless carriage
Post by: Ye-Ole Steam Dude on December 29, 2018, 08:22:40 AM
Coming along nicely  :praise2: It's always good when the parts all end up in the planned positions  :)  :wine1:


Hello Roger,

As you are well aware of, it is such a relief when all the parts do line up and fit where they were designed to be. From the time that I cut the first piece of steel tube, I was looking forward to the time that all the Engine and drive train parts would be installed. Not to get ahead of myself, but now I am looking forward to placing the Body on the Chassis for the first time. That is still months from now.

Have a great day,
Thomas
Title: Re: 1898 Automobile A.K.A. horseless carriage
Post by: bent on January 02, 2019, 08:34:54 PM
Looking good Thomas!
Title: Re: 1898 Automobile A.K.A. horseless carriage
Post by: Ye-Ole Steam Dude on January 02, 2019, 09:01:44 PM
Looking good Thomas!


Hello Bent,

Going really slow now, glacier slow, getting small parts designed and built.

Have a great day,
Thomas
Title: Re: 1898 Automobile A.K.A. horseless carriage
Post by: bent on January 03, 2019, 08:16:43 PM
Not gonna do a bucket run? (You know, sit on a bucket and ride the chassis around the garage) :)
Title: Re: 1898 Automobile A.K.A. horseless carriage
Post by: Ye-Ole Steam Dude on January 03, 2019, 08:53:20 PM
Not gonna do a bucket run? (You know, sit on a bucket and ride the chassis around the garage) :)


Hello Bent,

Wye yes I am, have an all white bucket that I will paint some red flames on either side and burn rubber in the shop ::)

Have a great day,
Thomas
Title: Re: 1898 Automobile A.K.A. horseless carriage
Post by: Cajun One on January 08, 2019, 08:02:03 PM
HI Thomas hope you a great holiday, Your HC is looking great cant wait to see the completed ride.Cheers :cheers: :cheers: :cheers: Wade
Title: Re: 1898 Automobile A.K.A. horseless carriage
Post by: Ye-Ole Steam Dude on January 08, 2019, 11:41:39 PM
HI Thomas hope you a great holiday, Your HC is looking great cant wait to see the completed ride.Cheers :cheers: :cheers: :cheers: Wade

Hello Wade,

Thank you and hope you and the family have a great 2019.

Have a great day,
Thomas
Title: Re: 1898 Automobile A.K.A. horseless carriage
Post by: b.lindsey on January 09, 2019, 12:40:33 AM
It really coming together Thomas. Your planning and design has paid off!!

Bill
Title: Re: 1898 Automobile A.K.A. horseless carriage
Post by: Ye-Ole Steam Dude on January 09, 2019, 05:52:47 AM
It really coming together Thomas. Your planning and design has paid off!!

Bill


Hello Bill,

I am pleased with the way it looks now and looking forward to getting the running gear assembled.

Have a great day,
Thomas
Title: Re: 1898 Automobile A.K.A. horseless carriage
Post by: Ye-Ole Steam Dude on January 28, 2019, 10:55:48 PM
Hello everyone,

OK after a couple of weeks hiatus working on the Buggy, I have uploaded a new video showing the current condition and projects. There are several components that need to be built that will require welding from the bottom side of the Engine Frame. After I get all these items completed, I will remove the Engine, Transmission and Jackshaft and then remove the Engine Frame from the Chassis and turn it over for the completed welding process.

Have a great day,
Thomas

oyAZqTR2ekE
Title: Re: 1898 Automobile A.K.A. horseless carriage
Post by: b.lindsey on January 28, 2019, 11:07:47 PM
Great to see a new update Thomas. It's coming along well.

Bill
Title: Re: 1898 Automobile A.K.A. horseless carriage
Post by: Ye-Ole Steam Dude on January 28, 2019, 11:25:09 PM
Great to see a new update Thomas. It's coming along well.

Bill

Hello Bill,

Sure will be glad to complete all this "underneath" stuff. I might go ahead and paint the Chassis while I have everything taken apart. Any last minute welds can be cleaned, primered and re-painted.

Have a great day,
Thomas
Title: Re: 1898 Automobile A.K.A. horseless carriage
Post by: crueby on January 28, 2019, 11:29:02 PM
Pretty soon you will have to chain it to the wall to keep your shop elves (or Bill and I) from taking it for a spin down the hill!


 :popcorn: :popcorn: :popcorn:
Title: Re: 1898 Automobile A.K.A. horseless carriage
Post by: Ye-Ole Steam Dude on January 29, 2019, 12:09:42 AM
Pretty soon you will have to chain it to the wall to keep your shop elves (or Bill and I) from taking it for a spin down the hill!


 :popcorn: :popcorn: :popcorn:

Hello Chris,

You, Bill and the other guys are always more than welcome to take it for a test drive :cartwheel:, however that would put you in line after me :ROFL: :ROFL:

Have a great day,
Thomas
Title: Re: 1898 Automobile A.K.A. horseless carriage
Post by: b.lindsey on January 29, 2019, 12:31:11 AM
Well for the next few days Thomas, you may be one of the few warmer places in the country. A visit would be nice. To out upper Midwest folks and most of the east coast and Canadian members, please stay warm. This polar vortex thing is some serious cold air!! ( Insert frozen emoji here)

Bill
Title: Re: 1898 Automobile A.K.A. horseless carriage
Post by: crueby on January 29, 2019, 12:49:14 AM
Its a  present from Brian! Its heading for 6 below zero (F) here... Glad the shop is in the house rather than the garage!
Title: Re: 1898 Automobile A.K.A. horseless carriage
Post by: bent on January 29, 2019, 07:38:39 PM
It's been nice up here the past couple days.  Cold crisp nights and frosty, but warm and clear days - had the top down for my drive home last night.  Feel free to put the buggy on the train and bring it up, we can drive it around a bit here Thomas!
Title: Re: 1898 Automobile A.K.A. horseless carriage
Post by: Ye-Ole Steam Dude on January 29, 2019, 08:59:44 PM
It's been nice up here the past couple days.  Cold crisp nights and frosty, but warm and clear days - had the top down for my drive home last night.  Feel free to put the buggy on the train and bring it up, we can drive it around a bit here Thomas!

Hello Bent,

I am not a cold weather person, anything below 70 is too cold for me. I did visit Seattle back in the 60's when I was working in South Dakota and the drive from Rapid City to Seattle was lovely. Not only being a lot younger, I wasn't smart enough to hate the cold back then, I'm a lot smarter now days... :Lol:

Have a great day,
Thomas
Title: Re: 1898 Automobile A.K.A. horseless carriage
Post by: crueby on January 29, 2019, 09:55:24 PM
It's been nice up here the past couple days.  Cold crisp nights and frosty, but warm and clear days - had the top down for my drive home last night.  Feel free to put the buggy on the train and bring it up, we can drive it around a bit here Thomas!

Hello Bent,

I am not a cold weather person, anything below 70 is too cold for me. I did visit Seattle back in the 60's when I was working in South Dakota and the drive from Rapid City to Seattle was lovely. Not only being a lot younger, I wasn't smart enough to hate the cold back then, I'm a lot smarter now days... :Lol:

Have a great day,
Thomas
Oh, you would hate it up here! And your head would explode if you moved way up north where Brian is!
We get about the same temperatures as you in the winter, as long as you move the decimal point....   :Jester:
Title: Re: 1898 Automobile A.K.A. horseless carriage
Post by: Ye-Ole Steam Dude on January 29, 2019, 10:28:54 PM
It's been nice up here the past couple days.  Cold crisp nights and frosty, but warm and clear days - had the top down for my drive home last night.  Feel free to put the buggy on the train and bring it up, we can drive it around a bit here Thomas!

Hello Bent,

I am not a cold weather person, anything below 70 is too cold for me. I did visit Seattle back in the 60's when I was working in South Dakota and the drive from Rapid City to Seattle was lovely. Not only being a lot younger, I wasn't smart enough to hate the cold back then, I'm a lot smarter now days... :Lol:

Have a great day,
Thomas
Oh, you would hate it up here! And your head would explode if you moved way up north where Brian is!
We get about the same temperatures as you in the winter, as long as you move the decimal point....   :Jester:

Hello Chris,

Man that hurts me to just think about it. Yesterday on the local evening news they were showing folks up north with their snow blowing machines clearing their walks and driveways. Some looked to be waist deep on either side, man I am sorry if this comes out wrong....but that is just crazy.

I pruned some plants in my flower garden yesterday with a t-shirt and jeans. However the temp dropped 20 degrees here last night. Of course it will be much warmer in the morning. Love good ole East Texas :cartwheel:

Have a warm and great day,
Thomas
Title: Re: 1898 Automobile A.K.A. horseless carriage
Post by: Kim on January 29, 2019, 10:55:29 PM
I pruned some plants in my flower garden yesterday with a t-shirt and jeans.

Thomas, I understand your dislike for the cold weather, but  I've never had any luck at pruning plants with a t-shirt.   :lolb:

But maybe that's because its not hot enough where I live  :Lol:

Kim

Title: Re: 1898 Automobile A.K.A. horseless carriage
Post by: Ye-Ole Steam Dude on January 29, 2019, 11:08:40 PM
I pruned some plants in my flower garden yesterday with a t-shirt and jeans.

Thomas, I understand your dislike for the cold weather, but  I've never had any luck at pruning plants with a t-shirt.   :lolb:

But maybe that's because its not hot enough where I live  :Lol:

Kim

Hello Kim,

OK, the key that you missed was "and jeans" :headscratch:

Have a great day,
Thomas
Title: Re: 1898 Automobile A.K.A. horseless carriage
Post by: MJM460 on January 29, 2019, 11:54:22 PM
Hi Thomas, probably not warm enough for you here either.  We haven’t exceeded 45 yet, but two days over 40 in the last week. 

Of course, that was C!

I would send some of it up to you guys in the north, but my thermodynamics text book seems to be missing the chapter on how to do it.

MJM460

Title: Re: 1898 Automobile A.K.A. horseless carriage
Post by: Ye-Ole Steam Dude on January 30, 2019, 01:03:38 AM
Hi Thomas, probably not warm enough for you here either.  We haven’t exceeded 45 yet, but two days over 40 in the last week. 

Of course, that was C!

I would send some of it up to you guys in the north, but my thermodynamics text book seems to be missing the chapter on how to do it.

MJM460

G'day MJM460,

You of course are enjoying the warmth of summer. When my old friend was still alive and living in Tasmania, I would dream of moving to the island during my winter time. Harry and I would talk on our Ham Radios almost every day and weather was always one of our main topics of discussions.

Enjoy you good weather and have a great day,
Thomas
Title: Re: 1898 Automobile A.K.A. horseless carriage
Post by: Ye-Ole Steam Dude on February 25, 2019, 05:12:47 PM
Hello everyone,

Was able to get some machining completed for the Buggy over the weekend. This brass Idler Bushing Adapter will thread onto the end of the Input Shaft of the Transmission. The IBA will fit into a 1-inch Pillow Block Bearing that will be mounted on a support bracket that is attached to the Engine Frame. This assembly is designed to support the long Input Shaft on the Transmission and carry a part of the stress/load created by the Drive Belt of the CVT coming directly from the Engine. I still have several more parts to make to complete all of this but will add it here soon.

Have a great day,
Thomas
Title: Re: 1898 Automobile A.K.A. horseless carriage
Post by: crueby on February 25, 2019, 05:55:23 PM
Nice to see this one moving forward so well - glad you labelled that last photo, made it all make sense as to where things go.
 :popcorn: :popcorn: :popcorn:
Title: Re: 1898 Automobile A.K.A. horseless carriage
Post by: Kim on February 25, 2019, 06:35:32 PM
Great to see an update Thomas!
I was about to write and ask you if everything was OK - its been weeks since the last update!  Glad to see your buggy is still moving along.  Er, uh, making progress to where it will eventually move along! :Lol:
Kim
Title: Re: 1898 Automobile A.K.A. horseless carriage
Post by: Ye-Ole Steam Dude on February 25, 2019, 07:49:33 PM
Nice to see this one moving forward so well - glad you labelled that last photo, made it all make sense as to where things go.
 :popcorn: :popcorn: :popcorn:

Hello Chris,

It will make more sense when I get the mount completed and all the parts put together.

Have a great day,
Thomas
Title: Re: 1898 Automobile A.K.A. horseless carriage
Post by: Ye-Ole Steam Dude on February 25, 2019, 08:00:19 PM
Great to see an update Thomas!
I was about to write and ask you if everything was OK - its been weeks since the last update!  Glad to see your buggy is still moving along.  Er, uh, making progress to where it will eventually move along! :Lol:
Kim


Hello Kim,

All is well here, just too many fun things to do and not enough time in a day. I did not have the right size brass round bar and did not want to turn down a 2" to 1-1/4" so I ordered it. Took almost 2 weeks to get it and it is not 460 machine brass. :shrug: Not sure what the heck it is, but it's as hard a titanium, squealed like a baby pig as I was drilling it out to 3/4". But it sure should hold the threads OK.

I also made a bunch of game calls on my wood lathe, so I was having fun waiting for the brass. :naughty:

Have a great day,
Thomas
Title: Re: 1898 Automobile A.K.A. horseless carriage
Post by: Kim on February 25, 2019, 08:07:32 PM
Thomas, Glad to hear all is well!
Yeah, I understand having other things that demand your time (fun and otherwise! :)).

I've picked up some unknown brass before.  I still have it.  I've labeled it well and try to avoid it.  I've learned it works best for me to only purchase metal that comes identified as to type.  I'm just not good enough to figure out what it is, and I've been burnt by taking pot-luck from sources that don't tell you (or likely don't know) what it is.  Like general Hardware stores and hobby stores.  I've had bad luck getting anything beyond aluminum or hot-rolled steel from them. Plus, I've found I can get things cheaper, even including shipping, from the on line places like On Line Metals or Speedy Metals.

Kim

Title: Re: 1898 Automobile A.K.A. horseless carriage
Post by: Ye-Ole Steam Dude on February 25, 2019, 08:19:23 PM
Thomas, Glad to hear all is well!
Yeah, I understand having other things that demand your time (fun and otherwise! :)).

I've picked up some unknown brass before.  I still have it.  I've labeled it well and try to avoid it.  I've learned it works best for me to only purchase metal that comes identified as to type.  I'm just not good enough to figure out what it is, and I've been burnt by taking pot-luck from sources that don't tell you (or likely don't know) what it is.  Like general Hardware stores and hobby stores.  I've had bad luck getting anything beyond aluminum or hot-rolled steel from them. Plus, I've found I can get things cheaper, even including shipping, from the on line places like On Line Metals or Speedy Metals.

Kim


Hey again Kim,

I almost always buy from the companies you listed along with several more "true" metal suppliers. However this time I only needed such a short piece and did not have enough material to put a good order together to justify freight cost, so made this purchase on eBay. Oh well, this may turn out to be the strongest thing on my Buggy :lolb:

Have a great day,
Thomas
Title: Re: 1898 Automobile A.K.A. horseless carriage
Post by: b.lindsey on February 25, 2019, 09:58:41 PM
Thanks for the update Thomas. Nice progress too.

Bill
Title: Re: 1898 Automobile A.K.A. horseless carriage
Post by: Ye-Ole Steam Dude on April 08, 2019, 08:07:21 PM
Hello everyone,

I have completed and installed the bracket that the Transmission Input Shaft Bearing is mounted on. I designed this so that the Bearing and bracket can be removed so that the Driven Pulley can be slipped off the Transmission shaft and without having to un-bolt the Transmission. This design allows replacing the Driver Pulley, the Drive Belt and the Driven Pulley really simple. I have attached a video showing the making and installing of the bracket.

Have a great day,
Thomas

LjmjoNLps9g
Title: Re: 1898 Automobile A.K.A. horseless carriage
Post by: Johnmcc69 on April 08, 2019, 10:23:35 PM
Looking good!
 :popcorn:

 John
Title: Re: 1898 Automobile A.K.A. horseless carriage
Post by: crueby on April 08, 2019, 10:25:43 PM
Very well done, fascinating to watch this come together. Where's that popcorn.... Ah, here...
 :popcornsmall:
Title: Re: 1898 Automobile A.K.A. horseless carriage
Post by: b.lindsey on April 08, 2019, 10:57:17 PM
Good to see an update Thomas. Would love to see the whole chassis now.

Bill
Title: Re: 1898 Automobile A.K.A. horseless carriage
Post by: Ye-Ole Steam Dude on April 08, 2019, 11:50:49 PM
Good to see an update Thomas. Would love to see the whole chassis now.

Bill


Hello and thanks John, Chris and Bill.

Bill here is what the Chassis looks like front and rear view today. I will start removing the Engine, Transmission, Jackshaft Assembly from the Engine Frame tomorrow. I have completed all of the brackets that are to be welded to the underside of the Engine Frame. I will remove the Engine Frame and flip it over so that I can weld up everything on the underside and then apply a coat of black paint. Before I reinstall the Engine Frame I will weld in place all the “body tabs” to the main Chassis. These body tabs will be used to bolt down the wood body and floor and then I will make a mock-up body. I am not a wood person so this will be quite a challenge for me. I have made a preliminary design for the Frame Work (skeleton) for the body and once completed will have to farm that work out to a qualified wood shop.

Thanks for following along and have a great day,
Thomas
Title: Re: 1898 Automobile A.K.A. horseless carriage
Post by: crueby on April 09, 2019, 12:29:06 AM
Looking amazing - you will be taking the shop elves up to the hardware store in it in no time!
Title: Re: 1898 Automobile A.K.A. horseless carriage
Post by: b.lindsey on April 09, 2019, 12:46:16 AM
Very nice. Thanks for the chassis pics!!!

Bill
Title: Re: 1898 Automobile A.K.A. horseless carriage
Post by: Ye-Ole Steam Dude on April 09, 2019, 12:47:25 AM
Looking amazing - you will be taking the shop elves up to the hardware store in it in no time!

Hello Chris,

Thank you, I just hope that I get it completed before I forget how to drive. My "to do list" is now about four times longer than when I started this project :thinking: I wish that I had your wood working skills and the required tools to do all of the body work.

Have a great day,
Thomas
Title: Re: 1898 Automobile A.K.A. horseless carriage
Post by: crueby on April 09, 2019, 12:50:57 AM
Looking amazing - you will be taking the shop elves up to the hardware store in it in no time!

Hello Chris,

Thank you, I just hope that I get it completed before I forget how to drive. My "to do list" is now about four times longer than when I started this project :thinking: I wish that I had your wood working skills and the required tools to do all of the body work.

Have a great day,
Thomas
I can help out with wood parts, have a shop full of brown-stuff tools and decades of practice with them... That era car is mainly flat panel bodywork, aren't they? Got plans?
Title: Re: 1898 Automobile A.K.A. horseless carriage
Post by: Ye-Ole Steam Dude on April 09, 2019, 01:19:26 AM
Looking amazing - you will be taking the shop elves up to the hardware store in it in no time!

Hello Chris,

Thank you, I just hope that I get it completed before I forget how to drive. My "to do list" is now about four times longer than when I started this project :thinking: I wish that I had your wood working skills and the required tools to do all of the body work.

Have a great day,
Thomas
I can help out with wood parts, have a shop full of brown-stuff tools and decades of practice with them... That era car is mainly flat panel bodywork, aren't they? Got plans?

Hey again Chris,

First off man you are too busy even with all you slaves elves....

Yes, almost all panels are flat. What I have drawn up ( this may be to hard to explain ) for the skeleton will be made from ( just an example haven't drawn all to scale yet ) 2" x 3" routed round radius one corner / with a relief below the radius / a second relief on top beyond the corner. I plan to use a top grade plywood for the panels that will fit inside the reliefs. I will make a drawing as an example and convert to pdf to show you. I do not want the raw edge of the ply wood to show so just internal braces will not work so my "relief skeleton" will take care of that plus add the extra strength needed. Connecting the flat sides to the top is no big problem, however I have the two 45-degree angles up on the nose (front end) and most likely will have one at the rear. I am removing the large radius on the top rear as originally drawn and replace that with some sort of angles ( two 45's or one 60 & one 30, etc ). Then there are the two side opening panels for engine access and one on top, these will require a different "relief" design. Man if I don't have you completely confused by now  :noidea: ,  :ROFL:

Anyway I think you do understand what my intent is despite my poor description. Chris I truly do appreciate your offer and it would be an honor to work with you on a project. I need to make a mockup out of some plain plywood and then make up a final design of the skeleton.

If I was not hell-bent to stay close to the circa 1800's, then I could make this out of aluminum in a minute. Several years ago I made a replica of a 1915 Field 1-Ton Truck Cab and it was really neat.

Thanks again and have a great day,
Thomas
Title: Re: 1898 Automobile A.K.A. horseless carriage
Post by: crueby on April 09, 2019, 02:30:28 AM
Thomas,  that makes perfect sense to me. I have made lots of furniture, rooms, boats, even restored horse drawn sleighs. Don't rule out panels with a curve in one axis, easy to build with thin ribs covered in flexible plywood. Compound curves are harder but doable. Marine ply and epoxy can build many shapes. Covering the edges is a great idea, adds strength too.

Oh, and extra projects are fun. Breaks up long projects with something new, and there is no hard deadline on the Marion, the build is the funnest part!
Title: Re: 1898 Automobile A.K.A. horseless carriage
Post by: Ye-Ole Steam Dude on April 09, 2019, 02:37:32 AM
Thomas,  that makes perfect sense to me. I have made lots of furniture, rooms, boats, even restored horse drawn sleighs. Don't rule out panels with a curve in one axis, easy to build with thin ribs covered in flexible plywood. Compound curves are harder but doable. Marine ply and epoxy can build many shapes. Covering the edges is a great idea, adds strength too.

Oh, and extra projects are fun. Breaks up long projects with something new, and there is no hard deadline on the Marion, the build is the funnest part!

Hello Chris,

Give me a day or two to make up a rough drawing and I will upload here for you to look over. Again I am not a wood person so open to any and all suggestions.

Have a great day,
Thomas
Title: Re: 1898 Automobile A.K.A. horseless carriage
Post by: Kim on April 09, 2019, 05:12:14 AM
The chassis is looking great, Thomas!
Can't wait to see the body take shape now.

Are you going to try driving it around without the body before you disassemble it?
Kim
Title: Re: 1898 Automobile A.K.A. horseless carriage
Post by: Ye-Ole Steam Dude on April 09, 2019, 11:30:59 AM
The chassis is looking great, Thomas!
Can't wait to see the body take shape now.

Are you going to try driving it around without the body before you disassemble it?
Kim

Hello Kim,

After I get all the bracket welding completed on the underside I will then reassemble everything. Then I will layout a temporary floorboard so that I can start installing all the control cables, peddles, steering components, and other required brackets. With all that completed I will lift the entire chassis off the floor onto stands so that a first test run can be done while checking all the controls. If all works OK, then it will be ready for a test run outdoors less the body. I really get excited every time I think about driving that thing around for the first time. I will get my buddy Paul over here to video this event.

Have a great day,
Thomas
Title: Re: 1898 Automobile A.K.A. horseless carriage
Post by: bent on April 09, 2019, 06:51:17 PM
Keep up the good work Thomas! :popcorn:
Title: Re: 1898 Automobile A.K.A. horseless carriage
Post by: Admiral_dk on April 09, 2019, 08:21:03 PM
Nice progress on a very interesting project  :ThumbsUp:

Quote
My "to do list" is now about four times longer than when I started this project :thinking:

Oh man, that's how I feel  :-X  I really need an early retirement - unfortunately not something I can afford the next 9 years .....
Title: Re: 1898 Automobile A.K.A. horseless carriage
Post by: Ye-Ole Steam Dude on April 09, 2019, 09:12:09 PM
Hello Chris @crueby

I am attaching two pdf drawings and let me state that is by no means a final design, these drawings are just to give you a general idea of what I have been thinking about:  1) showing just the outline of the Body, front, side and rear views. I have removed all the round corners and shapes to make it simple, but this can be changed if needed. 2) At the very bottom is shown the actual chassis (steel frame) and then in Green is the Bottom Rail ( this would be a part of the wood skeleton ). Note that it sits directly on top of the chassis and the ½" thick plywood floorboard would sit on top. The side panels cover this area and is shown better in the second drawing. 3) Above the Panels at the top would be the Top Rail shown in Red. This too is better depicted in the second drawing. The 1-inch radius shown would be a part of the Top Rail. Note that the Deck (top of the body) would be flush with the Rail, whereas the Side Panels would be inset by 1/4-inch. 4) There would be vertical Stays along each side for added strength and horizontal Stays going side to side for added strength. 5) The Rails would be fairly easy to make ( good close-up cross section of each shown on the second drawing ), obviously the hard parts would be the transitions from the sides to the front and rear and the angled areas and the opening in the cockpit area. 6) If need be, the Body could be made in two sections with a visible vertical seam just aft of the cockpit and ahead of the service doors on each side, under the drivers butt. By the way, the driver is drawn to scale at 72" tall for a reference. 7) There will be a “raised” Hatch opening on the aft deck for access to the engine compartment.

Drawing #2, 8) The relief area along the face of the Rails (top and bottom) are shown to be ½" allowing a 1/4" thick piece of plywood to be inserted leaving an additional 1/4" of “inset”. I am assuming that the Panels would be held in place with “brads” or “staples” and a good glue. 9) I plan to make the Body Tabs from 1-1/2 x 1-1/2 x 1/8 steel angle and cut them 2" long. They will be located all around the entire inside perimeter of the Chassis and not sure of the exact spacing at this time. 10) I am thinking about getting some 3" wide black tape (heavy duty like electrical tape) to lay down on top of the Chassis before bolting down the Bottom Rails to prevent any direct contact of wood to painted steel.

Hope this is enough for you to review and determine if this “Skeleton” is doable or not. Again, I am open to all suggestions.

One more thought I want to share with you. One of my original plans was to build the Body out of plywood and a conventional “stick” Skeleton and then cover the entire surface with several layers of a “cloth” fiber and then glass over (resin ). This would maintain the authentic appearance of an original 1800's Horseless Carriage, be super strong, fairly light weight and easy to build. The BIG downside would be the countless hours of sanding that dog-gone fiberglass to achieve the proper finish where no cloth would show in the paint. Your thoughts??

Have a great day,
Thomas
Title: Re: 1898 Automobile A.K.A. horseless carriage
Post by: Ye-Ole Steam Dude on April 09, 2019, 09:17:32 PM
Keep up the good work Thomas! :popcorn:

Hello Bent,

It is getting closer to needing that "test drivers bucket" that you have. I will need you to paint some racing flames on it... :ROFL:

have a great day,
Thomas
Title: Re: 1898 Automobile A.K.A. horseless carriage
Post by: Ye-Ole Steam Dude on April 09, 2019, 09:22:18 PM
Nice progress on a very interesting project  :ThumbsUp:

Quote
My "to do list" is now about four times longer than when I started this project :thinking:

Oh man, that's how I feel  :-X  I really need an early retirement - unfortunately not something I can afford the next 9 years .....

Hello Admiral_dk,

Let me warn you now about retiring, when you do you will find that you had more free time when you were employed  :lolb:

I was self employed and worked 24-7 but had all kinds of time for my hobbies, now I am always a month behind :facepalm:

Have a great day,
Thomas
Title: Re: 1898 Automobile A.K.A. horseless carriage
Post by: Jo on April 10, 2019, 07:24:31 AM
Let me warn you now about retiring, when you do you will find that you had more free time when you were employed  :lolb:

Too true   :facepalm:

Jo
Title: Re: 1898 Automobile A.K.A. horseless carriage
Post by: crueby on April 10, 2019, 12:50:15 PM
Hello Chris @crueby

I am attaching two pdf drawings and let me state that is by no means a final design, these drawings are just to give you a general idea of what I have been thinking about:  1) showing just the outline of the Body, front, side and rear views. I have removed all the round corners and shapes to make it simple, but this can be changed if needed. 2) At the very bottom is shown the actual chassis (steel frame) and then in Green is the Bottom Rail ( this would be a part of the wood skeleton ). Note that it sits directly on top of the chassis and the ½" thick plywood floorboard would sit on top. The side panels cover this area and is shown better in the second drawing. 3) Above the Panels at the top would be the Top Rail shown in Red. This too is better depicted in the second drawing. The 1-inch radius shown would be a part of the Top Rail. Note that the Deck (top of the body) would be flush with the Rail, whereas the Side Panels would be inset by 1/4-inch. 4) There would be vertical Stays along each side for added strength and horizontal Stays going side to side for added strength. 5) The Rails would be fairly easy to make ( good close-up cross section of each shown on the second drawing ), obviously the hard parts would be the transitions from the sides to the front and rear and the angled areas and the opening in the cockpit area. 6) If need be, the Body could be made in two sections with a visible vertical seam just aft of the cockpit and ahead of the service doors on each side, under the drivers butt. By the way, the driver is drawn to scale at 72" tall for a reference. 7) There will be a “raised” Hatch opening on the aft deck for access to the engine compartment.

Drawing #2, 8) The relief area along the face of the Rails (top and bottom) are shown to be ½" allowing a 1/4" thick piece of plywood to be inserted leaving an additional 1/4" of “inset”. I am assuming that the Panels would be held in place with “brads” or “staples” and a good glue. 9) I plan to make the Body Tabs from 1-1/2 x 1-1/2 x 1/8 steel angle and cut them 2" long. They will be located all around the entire inside perimeter of the Chassis and not sure of the exact spacing at this time. 10) I am thinking about getting some 3" wide black tape (heavy duty like electrical tape) to lay down on top of the Chassis before bolting down the Bottom Rails to prevent any direct contact of wood to painted steel.

Hope this is enough for you to review and determine if this “Skeleton” is doable or not. Again, I am open to all suggestions.

One more thought I want to share with you. One of my original plans was to build the Body out of plywood and a conventional “stick” Skeleton and then cover the entire surface with several layers of a “cloth” fiber and then glass over (resin ). This would maintain the authentic appearance of an original 1800's Horseless Carriage, be super strong, fairly light weight and easy to build. The BIG downside would be the countless hours of sanding that dog-gone fiberglass to achieve the proper finish where no cloth would show in the paint. Your thoughts??

Have a great day,
Thomas
Hi Thomas,
Some thoughts... That design looks good overall - I like the corner pieces, thats a tried-and-true way of doing the panel surrounds. Those edge pieces could be done with a tablesaw and router. As you say the corners are tricky, but they could be mitered from the same stock then sanded to round the sharp miter corner. Or make corner bits on the mill with a rotary table or CNC.

The plywood would keep it from racking in the plane of the plywood, but I think you should add some diagonal bracing/gussets/knees on the corners from horizontal-to-vertical panels (even the 45's). Otherwise forces on the corners would be concentrated on butt joints at the corners only, and even if screwed through from the outside that would be wobbly. See attached drawing for what I mean. The knee would connect the vert/horiz ribs, and take the strain off the corner trim joint.

Covering it in glass cloth and epoxy (better than polyester resin for flexibility) could certainly be done, it is expensive for large areas and as you say it does take multiple coats and sanding to get it smooth again - not a fun project if you have not done it before, there is a lot of technique to it. Another option is just to paint on the epoxy into the wood to seal it and smooth in the grain before painting. That is a lot less effort and protects the wood quite well. It would give the look of metal panels too. It would help seal the edges where the outer frame is too, though those spots could be given a bead of marine caulk when assembled to seal the edges even better. Something like 3M 5200 caulk would be perfect for that.

The boundary layer between wood and steel is a great idea. For fasteners/screws, use stainless steel or silicon bronze with the wood connections. If it is all painted, that helps a lot, varnished surfaces would be a lot of maintenance, though if you coated it in epoxy then varnish over the top (for UV protection of the varnish) its a lot easier. Though you could get stainless sheet and do the Delorean look... 

For the plywood, you mention 1/4" or 1/2", the floor would want to be thicker than that for where you would be standing, either thicker piece or two layers, plus ribs underneath.
Title: Re: 1898 Automobile A.K.A. horseless carriage
Post by: Ye-Ole Steam Dude on April 10, 2019, 02:43:16 PM
Hello Chris @crueby,

As I expected a ton of good information from you. The diagonal bracing is a must and will be an easy addition to include. I like the idea of some sort of epoxy paint but will require me to do a lot of research. Reading through your reply has given me an idea for another approach to overall construction. I have to make a run into Lufkin this morning and will stop by the paint store and have a talk with them.

Thanks so much for all your help and time.

Have a great day,
Thomas
Title: Re: 1898 Automobile A.K.A. horseless carriage
Post by: crueby on April 10, 2019, 03:01:35 PM
Hello Chris @crueby,

As I expected a ton of good information from you. The diagonal bracing is a must and will be an easy addition to include. I like the idea of some sort of epoxy paint but will require me to do a lot of research. Reading through your reply has given me an idea for another approach to overall construction. I have to make a run into Lufkin this morning and will stop by the paint store and have a talk with them.

Thanks so much for all your help and time.

Have a great day,
Thomas
While there is epoxy paint, I was thinking of just brushing on epoxy resin to seal the wood and smooth it, then painting over that. The newer epoxies dont have any amine blush (wax forming on the surface) like the older ones did. I use the System 3 Silvertip epoxy now, it is thin enough to brush/roll on, and has zero amine blush. Without putting on the cloth (which you dont need in your build) there is no weave to fill, so even a single coat is helpful, two is better, and it sands fairly easily. Then you can paint with whatever paint you want. The 3M 5200 in the joints with the edge trim would seal that up, and keep the edge grain from soaking up any moisture while driving in the rain.
 :cheers:
Title: Re: 1898 Automobile A.K.A. horseless carriage
Post by: Ye-Ole Steam Dude on April 10, 2019, 06:27:27 PM
Hello Chris @crueby,

As I expected a ton of good information from you. The diagonal bracing is a must and will be an easy addition to include. I like the idea of some sort of epoxy paint but will require me to do a lot of research. Reading through your reply has given me an idea for another approach to overall construction. I have to make a run into Lufkin this morning and will stop by the paint store and have a talk with them.

Thanks so much for all your help and time.

Have a great day,
Thomas
While there is epoxy paint, I was thinking of just brushing on epoxy resin to seal the wood and smooth it, then painting over that. The newer epoxies dont have any amine blush (wax forming on the surface) like the older ones did. I use the System 3 Silvertip epoxy now, it is thin enough to brush/roll on, and has zero amine blush. Without putting on the cloth (which you dont need in your build) there is no weave to fill, so even a single coat is helpful, two is better, and it sands fairly easily. Then you can paint with whatever paint you want. The 3M 5200 in the joints with the edge trim would seal that up, and keep the edge grain from soaking up any moisture while driving in the rain.
 :cheers:

Hello Chris,

OK, did not know about this process but it sounds like a much easier and better approach. I will google System 3 Silvertip epoxy and read up on it. Sounds like this project is doable :cartwheel:

Stopped at the paint store but the main guy was not there so I will have to catch him on the next trip. They may stock the System 3 Silvertip epoxy.

Have a great day,
Thomas

PS: I sent you a PM
Title: Re: 1898 Automobile A.K.A. horseless carriage
Post by: crueby on April 10, 2019, 06:35:11 PM
Another great resource on glueing with epoxy is from the West System folks, they do a little magazine with lots of project tips:
https://www.westsystem.com/projects/
I have used their products a lot, but think the Silvertip is better at the moment. Great info from them here:
https://www.systemthree.com/pages/resources
You can find it a lot of places online, prices do vary a bunch place to place.
Title: Re: 1898 Automobile A.K.A. horseless carriage
Post by: bent on April 10, 2019, 07:17:57 PM
Leaving some of the wood as clear finish might look really good too; maybe just the edges/trim?

I was gonna post something about a plywood body and flames, but it seems inappropriate.  I like the Model T lines, and it goes with your name and logo, Thomas!
Title: Re: 1898 Automobile A.K.A. horseless carriage
Post by: Ye-Ole Steam Dude on April 10, 2019, 07:28:24 PM
Another great resource on glueing with epoxy is from the West System folks, they do a little magazine with lots of project tips:
https://www.westsystem.com/projects/
I have used their products a lot, but think the Silvertip is better at the moment. Great info from them here:
https://www.systemthree.com/pages/resources
You can find it a lot of places online, prices do vary a bunch place to place.


Hello again Chris,

Saved both of the addresses in my favorites and will read up on them.

Have a great day,
Thomas
Title: Re: 1898 Automobile A.K.A. horseless carriage
Post by: crueby on April 10, 2019, 07:34:04 PM
Leaving some of the wood as clear finish might look really good too; maybe just the edges/trim?

I was gonna post something about a plywood body and flames, but it seems inappropriate.  I like the Model T lines, and it goes with your name and logo, Thomas!
Add on the big racing slicks on the back, headers, velocity stacks...   :Lol:
Title: Re: 1898 Automobile A.K.A. horseless carriage
Post by: Ye-Ole Steam Dude on April 10, 2019, 07:37:37 PM
Leaving some of the wood as clear finish might look really good too; maybe just the edges/trim?

I was gonna post something about a plywood body and flames, but it seems inappropriate.  I like the Model T lines, and it goes with your name and logo, Thomas!


Hello Bent,

I love the natural wood finish and will see in time if that can be worked into the build. I had planned on the instrument panel, albeit really small and sparse, to be natural and hopefully with some Brass switches and gauges.

Don't hesitate about posting something here, flames included... :Lol: after all, with the gearing (sprockets and chains) it should do a blistering 35 mph. :whoohoo:

Have a great day,
Thomas

Title: Re: 1898 Automobile A.K.A. horseless carriage
Post by: bent on April 11, 2019, 06:15:03 PM
35 mph!  You need to start engineering the roll cage and 5-pt. harness!  :ROFL:

Ooooh...oversize brass gauges and dials.  Sounds very cool.  Hmm...hard to find replicas though - lots of antique stuff on ebay going for ridiculous $.

Rock Auto has this antique-y gage, but 120 mph?  Of course you could calibrate it so 35 mph actual = 120 mph indicated...
https://www.rockauto.com/en/moreinfo.php?pk=8416388&jsn=336
Title: Re: 1898 Automobile A.K.A. horseless carriage
Post by: Tennessee Whiskey on April 11, 2019, 08:01:22 PM
Hey Thomas, I guess I am one of the ones that’s been “silently following along, but man I’m digging your build. TBH, been wanting to do something like this since the frame on my first mini-bike broke (circa 1971)   :lolb: :lolb:  if’n a fella could come up with an instrument panel from a small Mooney airplane; would you be interested? Think I can gets some pictures by Monday. Enjoy the springtime  :cheers:

Cletus
Title: Re: 1898 Automobile A.K.A. horseless carriage
Post by: Ye-Ole Steam Dude on April 11, 2019, 09:22:04 PM
35 mph!  You need to start engineering the roll cage and 5-pt. harness!  :ROFL:

Ooooh...oversize brass gauges and dials.  Sounds very cool.  Hmm...hard to find replicas though - lots of antique stuff on ebay going for ridiculous $.

Rock Auto has this antique-y gage, but 120 mph?  Of course you could calibrate it so 35 mph actual = 120 mph indicated...
https://www.rockauto.com/en/moreinfo.php?pk=8416388&jsn=336

Hello Bent,

I have seen ( but not lately ) some re-pops of old gauges in brass, guess I had better start looking again. The brass switches are still available through marine supply stores, bought some not too long ago they were a bit pricy.

In place of a roll cage, I will supply each passenger with a quart of shine....to be consumed prior to take off :DrinkPint:

Have a great day,
Thomas
Title: Re: 1898 Automobile A.K.A. horseless carriage
Post by: Ye-Ole Steam Dude on April 11, 2019, 09:36:58 PM
Hey Thomas, I guess I am one of the ones that’s been “silently following along, but man I’m digging your build. TBH, been wanting to do something like this since the frame on my first mini-bike broke (circa 1971)   :lolb: :lolb:  if’n a fella could come up with an instrument panel from a small Mooney airplane; would you be interested? Think I can gets some pictures by Monday. Enjoy the springtime  :cheers:

Cletus


Hello Cletus,

Are you talking about a Mooney Mite? I flew one of those little planes one time and that was a hot little baby and sensitive as all get-out. Don't go out of your way but would love to see some photos. Unfortunately none of the instruments would work  :thinking:, well it would be cool to have an Altimeter and a Turn Indicator on the dash  :lolb: :ROFL: That sure would get my passengers attention  :facepalm:

You need to build one of these Buggies for your place, but your machine should run on steam. When I first started working on the plans for mine, I seriously considered steam.

Thanks for following along and have a great day,
Thomas
Title: Re: 1898 Automobile A.K.A. horseless carriage
Post by: Tennessee Whiskey on April 11, 2019, 10:54:55 PM
Thomas, I think it’s from an M20 Mooney. It’s in my BIL’s estate and I can easily nab it. Headed that way this weekend and will get pictures.

Cletus
Title: Re: 1898 Automobile A.K.A. horseless carriage
Post by: Ye-Ole Steam Dude on April 11, 2019, 11:22:13 PM
Thomas, I think it’s from an M20 Mooney. It’s in my BIL’s estate and I can easily nab it. Headed that way this weekend and will get pictures.

Cletus

Hello Cletus,

OK a big Mooney, if memory servers me right that is a four place aircraft. That should have all kinds of good instruments and radios. Looking forward to see the photos.

Have a great day,
Thomas
Title: Re: 1898 Automobile A.K.A. horseless carriage
Post by: bent on April 12, 2019, 10:25:15 PM
You absolutely must have the turn/bank indicator.  Altimeter too, with a hidden switch you can throw to make it suddenly unspool at the same time the turn/bank indicator starts to roll wildly.  :Jester:

You could probably do a copper sulfate reaction to put a copper gleam on chromed gages.  Or do a little home metal spinning with brass sheet to make your own bezel ring to cover a modern chrome plated gage.  Or run a speedo cable up to a Watts governer style whirligig, with attached gage pointer for speedo readout, that would be cool too.  Or, one last idea would be a pitot-static tube rigged to a red-dyed kerosene slant-tube manometer (I think some of the early biplanes actually had these installed for airspeed indicators?).  Extra points if the pitot and static taps form part of the flying woman from a Packard/Rolls hood ornament.
Title: Re: 1898 Automobile A.K.A. horseless carriage
Post by: Ye-Ole Steam Dude on April 13, 2019, 12:07:40 AM
You absolutely must have the turn/bank indicator.  Altimeter too, with a hidden switch you can throw to make it suddenly unspool at the same time the turn/bank indicator starts to roll wildly.  :Jester:

You could probably do a copper sulfate reaction to put a copper gleam on chromed gages.  Or do a little home metal spinning with brass sheet to make your own bezel ring to cover a modern chrome plated gage.  Or run a speedo cable up to a Watts governer style whirligig, with attached gage pointer for speedo readout, that would be cool too.  Or, one last idea would be a pitot-static tube rigged to a red-dyed kerosene slant-tube manometer (I think some of the early biplanes actually had these installed for airspeed indicators?).  Extra points if the pitot and static taps form part of the flying woman from a Packard/Rolls hood ornament.

Hello Bent,

I would have to put a fan in front of the pitot-static tube to get any kind of a reading at my speed  :Jester:, however find me a Flying Woman hood ornament and I will install it.

Have a great day,
Thomas
Title: Re: 1898 Automobile A.K.A. horseless carriage
Post by: Ye-Ole Steam Dude on April 16, 2019, 11:22:56 AM
Hello Everyone,
   
I have attached a pdf drawing showing the updated Buggy’s body. This may look like a mess but it is actually two (2) different drawings, one overlaid on top of the other. The gray colored lines represents one drawing which encompasses the entire Chassis, Engine Frame, complete Drive system (less wheels and tires) and an outline of the Body. The second drawing is the revised construction design for all the individual parts that will make up the new Body itself.

Thanks to Chris @crueby for many suggestions, I have completely redesigned the actual construction and materials to build the Body and made a few appearance changes that will aide in the construction. This new design will be much stronger and a whole lot easier to build and will be also easier to apply the finish.

The reason for the overlay of the two drawings is to confirm that “everything” fits as it should. This confirms that the actual final outside and inside shape of the new Body fits on the Chassis and all structure parts / pieces ( cutouts, stays, bracing, brackets, doors, supports, etc. ) will clear as they should.

Now I need to get the Chassis work completed so that I can start to work on the “rails” and “floorboard”.

Have a great day,
Thomas