Model Engine Maker

Supporting => Tooling & Machines => Topic started by: Dave Otto on June 24, 2018, 11:56:56 PM

Title: Mill Vise From Morrison & Marvin Castings
Post by: Dave Otto on June 24, 2018, 11:56:56 PM
One day working in the shop, not long after completing the 3d CAD models and drawings for the Morrison & Marvin ďModel Builders ViseĒ I received a package in the mail. It appeared to be just a typical package but when I opened it I realized my life was going complicated for a while.

Inside were several beautifully made wax patterns of complex, unusual shapes. There were some hand sketches included but they did not help much. The sketches had dimensions larger than the patterns? Closer inspection revealed the logo of Morrison & Marvin on two of the patterns, so at least I knew where they came from.

(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10012/Vise_001.jpg)

I studied the lines and numbers and realized I must have the full size dimensions and this was a quarter scale model. Then knowing Morrison & Marvin castings are often combined to save foundry costs and provide a chucking lug I realized I was looking at a one quarter size Kurt Style Mill Vise. The number cast in the bottom "D-15" must indicate the size was 1.5", quarter size of a 6"


I called my friend Roland Morrison of Morrison & Marvin Engine Works and he told me I already had the plans sitting on my mill. He did send me some SurfCAM files that Marvin Hedberg had used to cut the molds. Unfortunately Marvin uses a older version of SurfCAM that is not compatible with the newer solid modeling programs.


Now the project was not only to machine the castings when they arrived but make working drawings so all the parts would fit. To do this, 3d CAD models of all the vise parts needed to be created and assembled.


The castings from the foundry were going to be out a few weeks, so I had some time to get going on some 3d models. Using the wax patterns, Rolandís sketches, and measuring a full size D-6 vise all the parts were modeled and assembled in Alibre. The wax patterns were the most useful in the modeling process because they were an actual representation of the castings. I needed to determine how much material would need to be removed from the machined surfaces to maintain proper alignment of the screw, nut and jaws. Marvin had left plenty of material for machining, just a matter how much of it to remove.

(http://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10012/Vise_002.jpg)
Here is a screen shot of the 3d model.


If you are interested in seeing the Model Builders Vise drawings they can be downloaded for free here.
http://www.morrisonandmarvin.com/vise_drawings.php


And if you are curious to have a look at the current state of the Mill Vise drawings they are located here.
http://www.morrisonandmarvin.com/mill_vise_drawings.php



Roland may chime in here with some interesting information about some guy named Muggli. :stickpoke:

More to follow.
Dave
Title: Re: Mill Vise From Morrison & Marvin Castings
Post by: Dan Rowe on June 25, 2018, 01:49:31 PM
Dave, I was on the website yesterday wondering when the castings would be available. This will be a fun build to watch and I can hardly wait until I can get a set of castings.

Cheers Dan
Title: Re: Mill Vise From Morrison & Marvin Castings
Post by: Dave Otto on June 27, 2018, 01:07:13 AM
Thanks for stopping by Dan,
Iím pretty sure Roland will know the status of the castings; I do know that the foundries that do investment castings tend to have long lead times.

I thought that it would be fun to include a couple pictures of the beautiful molds that Marvin machined.

(http://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10012/Vise_004.jpg)
This is the mold for the body and the nut; notice the sliding core that makes the cavity where the nut runs. There are also two more removable pieces that form the openings on the sides of the vise body. It is hard to see but there is also a removable piece for the nut because there is an undercut on the casting that would prevent the wax form being removed from the mold, not to mention nearly impossible to machine.


(http://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10012/Vise_003.jpg)
This is the mold for the base and jaw set. The jaw mold also has an insert for the same reason described above. Marvin is an absolute master at this type of work.


Thanks for checking in,
Dave
Title: Re: Mill Vise From Morrison & Marvin Castings
Post by: b.lindsey on June 27, 2018, 01:23:28 AM
That is some beautiful mold work Dave. Thanks for showing it.

Bill
Title: Re: Mill Vise From Morrison & Marvin Castings
Post by: crueby on June 27, 2018, 01:28:53 AM
Its hard to tell from their web page - do they sell the model makers vise as a complete unit, or just as castings? Its small, but really nice, would be a handy addition...
Title: Re: Mill Vise From Morrison & Marvin Castings
Post by: RolandMM on June 27, 2018, 05:29:06 PM
It should have been easy but of course it wasn't.  It is my experience that most of my projects take twice as long as expected and cost four times more.

This one was different. It took four times longer and cost eight times more.  Compared to the ModelBuilder Vise the MillVise should have been simple.  No compound curves and difficult holding problems,  all straight lines both for molds and machining.  How could it be difficult?

Disassembly of the genuine Kurt D6 sitting on my mill showed no hint of difficulty.  The half ball which is the heart of the design, could be made on the end of a piece of O1, parted off and hardened.  The left hand screw could be single pointed and the nut could be tapped by a common left hand tap. No difficult acme threads in this one. What could possibly go wrong?

Checking out different changes in the vise most of us call a "Kurt", or at least a "Kurt Type" by off shore manufacturers, I discovered "Muggli".   The patent describes it as "Vise with workpiece hold down force" invented in the 1930s

I asked around and soon had a 5" and a 6" Muggli which are very similar to a modern Kurt.  Kurt had purchased the patent about 1977, simplified the castings a little and made it a machine shop staple.

Roland

Title: Re: Mill Vise From Morrison & Marvin Castings
Post by: Dave Otto on June 28, 2018, 12:32:51 AM
Bill, Chris, & Roland, thanks for stopping by.

Roland thanks for the information on Mr. Muggli; I think Kurt would like us all to believe they invented the angle lock vise.

Chris Iím not sure about the availability of completed vises, my guess is no but you would have to check with M&M. I can tell you that it is a fun project and a great kit that comes with not only the castings but all the hardware and materials.
I built mine almost eight years ago, I did a build thread on the other site but I donít think I ever did one here on MEM. I could if there is interest?

Here are a couple pictures of my Model Builders Vise.

(http://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10012/normal_MM_Vise_055.jpg)

(http://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10012/normal_MM_Vise_056.jpg)

(http://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10012/normal_Powarm_011.jpg)
I also scaled down a Wilton Powrarm Jr. and made one for the vise


Thanks again for checking in.
Dave
Title: Re: Mill Vise From Morrison & Marvin Castings
Post by: crueby on June 28, 2018, 12:51:42 AM
I would love to see the build thread!
Do you think it is do-able on a small (Sherline) lathe/mill? Or does it involve turning larger diameter parts?
Title: Re: Mill Vise From Morrison & Marvin Castings
Post by: b.lindsey on June 28, 2018, 12:53:13 AM
That's beautiful Dave. How much use does it see?

Bill
Title: Re: Mill Vise From Morrison & Marvin Castings
Post by: Dave Otto on June 28, 2018, 01:08:21 AM
Hey Chris, It's not very big I don't see any reason why it couldn't be built on Sherline tools. The Sherline lathe will swing the movable jaw over the bed but not the cross slide. This piece needs to be turned and bored. I will try to get a build thread put together in the near future.

Thanks Bill, It doesn't see much use because I don't want to bang it up. :Lol:  But with the 41xx steel castings, bronze nut and Acme screw it is very capable of being put to work.

Thanks again guys,
Dave
Title: Re: Mill Vise From Morrison & Marvin Castings
Post by: crueby on June 28, 2018, 01:10:10 AM
Great - thats the key piece of information, swinging that jaw piece. Probably would need an arbor or plate to hold it, but that is very do-able.
Looking forward to seeing the thread!
 :cheers:  :popcorn:
Title: Re: Mill Vise From Morrison & Marvin Castings
Post by: Johnmcc69 on June 28, 2018, 02:17:39 AM
Definitely a cool project! The molds are beautiful!
 & great work on the drawings for these vises Dave!

 John
Title: Re: Mill Vise From Morrison & Marvin Castings
Post by: kvom on June 28, 2018, 12:59:52 PM
Chris, don't get distracted.   :popcorn:
Title: Re: Mill Vise From Morrison & Marvin Castings
Post by: crueby on June 28, 2018, 01:19:20 PM
Chris, don't get distracted.   :popcorn:
No worry. Just need something to make Zee think I won't build the Stanley after the Marion!   :ThumbsDown:
Title: Re: Mill Vise From Morrison & Marvin Castings
Post by: steamer on June 28, 2018, 01:26:02 PM
Perfect size for the Aciera F1
Title: Re: Mill Vise From Morrison & Marvin Castings
Post by: Dave Otto on June 29, 2018, 12:43:42 AM
Definitely a cool project! The molds are beautiful!
 & great work on the drawings for these vises Dave!

 John

John, thanks so much for the very nice complements, they are appreciated.

Dave
Title: Re: Mill Vise From Morrison & Marvin Castings
Post by: Dave Otto on July 02, 2018, 10:32:22 PM
How about we start the week off with a couple nice sets of castings.

(http://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10012/Vise_006.jpg)
The foundry sure does a nice job on them.

Dave
Title: Re: Mill Vise From Morrison & Marvin Castings
Post by: crueby on July 02, 2018, 10:56:49 PM
Wow, nice and smooth surfaces, looking forward to seeing them come together!
Title: Re: Mill Vise From Morrison & Marvin Castings
Post by: b.lindsey on July 02, 2018, 11:03:03 PM
What are the two materials Dave? CI and bronze?

Bill
Title: Re: Mill Vise From Morrison & Marvin Castings
Post by: Mcgyver on July 02, 2018, 11:16:34 PM
what a great project and set of castings, nice work!  I've been modeling a D20 which I thought would be a good vise for a small mill and had no idea this resource existed.

Any info on availability and price of the castings?
Title: Re: Mill Vise From Morrison & Marvin Castings
Post by: Dave Otto on July 02, 2018, 11:37:54 PM
Thanks guys,

Bill the steel castings are 4140 (very tough and strong) and the other set is Bronze. Due to the very high cost I'm not sure the bronze castings are going to be available, but Roland would have to answer that for sure.

Mcgyver; Roland will also have to answer your questions on price and availability, I think the castings have a long lead time but I'm not sure how much.


Dave
Title: Re: Mill Vise From Morrison & Marvin Castings
Post by: b.lindsey on July 03, 2018, 12:02:15 AM
Ideally, one would need a surface grinder for the steel castings I would think. Certainly very nice looking castings!!

Bill
Title: Re: Mill Vise From Morrison & Marvin Castings
Post by: Johnmcc69 on July 03, 2018, 12:13:30 AM
Those are really nice looking castings. Looking forward to the machining part!

 Jo: pretty castings..would make a nice addition...& Very useful as well. :stickpoke:

 John
Title: Re: Mill Vise From Morrison & Marvin Castings
Post by: Dave Otto on July 03, 2018, 12:16:39 AM
Ideally, one would need a surface grinder for the steel castings I would think. Certainly very nice looking castings!!

Bill

Yes for the best accuracy and finish, you are correct. Fortunately I have access to a nice one in the shop where I work. The flat surfaces could also be carefully lapped, that is my plan for the bronze vise.

Dave
Title: Re: Mill Vise From Morrison & Marvin Castings
Post by: Jo on July 03, 2018, 06:33:18 AM
Those are really nice looking castings. Looking forward to the machining part!

 Jo: pretty castings..would make a nice addition...& Very useful as well. :stickpoke:

I had taken note :-X I am waiting to hear about the delivery times/prices and don't forget we slap import duty on them as well  :(

Jo
Title: Re: Mill Vise From Morrison & Marvin Castings
Post by: steamer on July 03, 2018, 02:27:12 PM
Nice Castings!    4150 is a challenge, but doable.    Are they stress relieved?

Dave
Title: Re: Mill Vise From Morrison & Marvin Castings
Post by: Dave Otto on July 04, 2018, 03:37:55 PM
Hey Dave

I'm not sure if the foundry stress relieves these castings or not, I'm thinking they might as they do mostly gun parts for vintage single shot rifles. This is the same material that the Model Builders Vise castings  are made from and I had no trouble machining them. It actually machines very nice, not like 12L14 though. :Lol:

Dave
Title: Re: Mill Vise From Morrison & Marvin Castings
Post by: steamer on July 04, 2018, 04:14:41 PM
Thanks Dave,

I'm glad they know what they're doing!    4150 can be tougher than woodpecker lips even at 35 RC form, so annealing it is a very good thing

I had some big mobile truck components made from 4150 once, and the shop that got the bid from the purchasing agent, had no idea what they had, so they blanked all the parts with a torch!   :lolb:

They used up every piece of their carbide trying to cut it until they finally spoke to me! :facepalm:....  can you say glass hard?

I then introduced a new heat treating term to them.....Anneal.

SMH....


Dave
Title: Re: Mill Vise From Morrison & Marvin Castings
Post by: john mills on July 05, 2018, 11:21:37 AM
does it say 4140    what is 41 50
Title: Re: Mill Vise From Morrison & Marvin Castings
Post by: steamer on July 05, 2018, 12:14:47 PM
4140 and 4150 are very similar, 4150 has a just a bit more carbon in it..

Both are considered low alloys.   4150 is a bit harder to machine.  It will harden to a bit harder condition.

Dave
Title: Re: Mill Vise From Morrison & Marvin Castings
Post by: Dave Otto on July 07, 2018, 12:04:56 AM
Hi Guys

It seems that the logical place to start is the Swivel Base


(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10012/Vise_007.jpg)
The Base is held by the chucking lug and indicated both radially and axially. The base was faced just enough to clean it up and the extra lug cut off flush. The remainder of the lug was machined into the raised boss seen in the later photos.

If you look closely you can see a small raised boss where the indicator point is on the outside edge. I machined the periphery of the base to just remove this boss. Personal preference but I think it looks more like the original with the boss removed.


(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10012/Vise_008.jpg)
The base was flipped around and indicated in. The chucking lug was carefully machined away and the cavity machined using a boring bar. The base was also faced to proper thickness and the bevel for the numbers machined. The Swivel Pin hole was also drilled and reamed for a press fit on the pin.
At this point the groove for Ĺ of the Swivel Bolt key way could have been added, but my plan was to do it in the mill using a key seat cutter.


(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10012/Vise_009.jpg)

(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10012/Vise_010.jpg)
Here are a couple pictures of the two Swivel Bases with the lathe work completed.
Note; I took a very light facing cut across the surface where the mounting bolts go, just to level the surface. It was then bead blasted so it is not real obvious.


(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10012/Vise_011.jpg)
A pair of soft jaws were machined to hold the swivel base for the next two operations.
Mounted upside down and using the swivel pin hole as my datum. The key ways, key retainer screw holes, bolt clearance holes, and swivel center mounting holes were all added.


(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10012/Vise_012.jpg)
Here is a picture of the features listed above.


(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10012/Vise_013.jpg)
The with the swivel base flipped over and dialed back in the Swivel Bolt key way was machined using a key seat cutter. One half of the keyway is in the base and the other half is in the removable Swivel Center.


(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10012/Vise_014~0.jpg)
Here is a screen shot that shows the how the swivel center mounts and forms the rest of the key way for the swivel bolts.

Thatís all for now, thanks for checking in.
Dave
Title: Re: Mill Vise From Morrison & Marvin Castings
Post by: b.lindsey on July 07, 2018, 12:44:45 AM
Those look just perfect Dave. You got a lot done!!

Bill
Title: Re: Mill Vise From Morrison & Marvin Castings
Post by: Dan Rowe on July 07, 2018, 01:14:49 AM
Dave, are you using CNC for cutting the key slot in the base? I might use the lathe for that cut.

Dan
Title: Re: Mill Vise From Morrison & Marvin Castings
Post by: Dave Otto on July 07, 2018, 07:41:46 PM
Thanks Bill.
Dan, yes I did use the CNC for the secondary operations on the Swivel Base.

Thanks for checking in guys.
Dave

Title: Re: Mill Vise From Morrison & Marvin Castings
Post by: Dave Otto on July 23, 2018, 02:01:44 AM
Hi Guys

Work continues on the vises.

(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10012/Vise_015.jpg)
The Swivel Center started out as a slice of 12L14 steel. Chucked up faced and turned to proper diameter; the relief for the Swivel Bolts was also added and the center hole drilled and reamed.
This is a slip fit over the center pin which is pressed into the Swivel Base.

(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10012/Vise_016.jpg)
Flipped around, the top is faced to thickness and the detail added.


(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10012/Vise_017.jpg)
Set up on a fixture plate in the mill, the mounting holes are drilled and counter bored.


(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10012/Vise_018.jpg)
I didnít take any in process pictures of the Swivel Bolts; here is a shot of the completed bolts. Notice the curves that match the circular channel in the Swivel Base assembly. The ends of the bolts were machined using the CNC. I had left them oversized from the lathe, mounted them in a collet and cut the profile.


(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10012/Vise_019.jpg)
Here are the assembled Swivel Bases.


(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10012/Vise_020.jpg)

(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10012/Vise_021.jpg)
Starting on the Body castings, the extra material left from the foundry was carefully removed in the band saw.


(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10012/Vise_022.jpg)
The Body casting was set on parallels and the cored Swivel Pin hole was dialed in. The Body was faced to .250Ē thick measured in the area between the rails. All the holes and key ways were done in one operation. The center hole which is undersized was milled to within a few thousandths and then reamed to size. In this picture all the hole locations have just been spot drilled


(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10012/Vise_023.jpg)
Here is the Body with the underside machine work completed except for deburring.
The Bodies came out pretty good, but after doing these Roland and I had some discussion about the best way to insure the bottom features are aligned with the rails and boss for the screw. Roland came up with a better order of operations to insure this, and has made these instructions available along with the plans.


(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10012/Vise_024.jpg)
Itís good to see the Body fitting the Swivel base so nicely.


(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10012/Vise_025.jpg)
Notice the little bump where the index line will be engraved, there is one on each side. These bumps were machined at the same time as the rest of features on the bottom of the Body and are machined to the same radius as the upper surface of the Swivel Base.


(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10012/Vise_025a.jpg)
A simple fixture was designed and machined to hold the Body for the rest of the machine work. The fixture has keys that engage the key slots on the bottom of the Body. It holds the body square and parallel and includes a center hole for indicating. The cut outs on the sides are for work on the index lines and the little bumps where they reside.


(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10012/Vise_025b.jpg)
The Body was mounted on the fixture and faced to thickness.

(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10012/Vise_026.jpg)
Standing the Body and fixture up on end, the hole for the screw was drilled. The surface for the Collar was also spot faced to clean up the cast surface.
By using the fixture I knew were my center line was and didnít have to mess around with indicating a pin through the center pivot hole.


(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10012/Vise_027.jpg)
The Body and fixture were set back down and indicated using a gauge pain and coax indicator.


(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10012/Vise_028.jpg)
Some machining fun! The inside of the rails were machined, this used two different cutters, a 3/16Ē end mill was used for the full depth cuts then a 1/6Ē end mill was used to go back and nibble the area on each side of the screw boss until it just blended with the other surface.
Then a key seat cutter was used to machine the cuts under the rails where the nut will bear.


(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10012/Vise_029.jpg)
The machine work on the top of the body is mostly complete


(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10012/Vise_030.jpg)
The key way for the Stationary jaw was also machined in this set up.


(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10012/Vise_031.jpg)
Last operation on the base is to counter bore the screw hole for the thrust bearing. As luck would have it I had the proper counter bore in the drawer but I did send it out to be sharpened. It is nice to have a quality sharpening service nearby.

Well that is about it for now; thanks for checking in.

Dave

Title: Re: Mill Vise From Morrison & Marvin Castings
Post by: steamer on July 23, 2018, 02:13:56 AM
Nice looking parts Dave!    That vise would look awesome on my F1!

Dave
Title: Re: Mill Vise From Morrison & Marvin Castings
Post by: crueby on July 23, 2018, 03:24:30 AM
Excellent, great looking parts!


 :popcorn:


Side question, will you be posting the pics from the rest of your build of the other vise on that thread? Looking forward to seeing the rest of that one too!

Title: Re: Mill Vise From Morrison & Marvin Castings
Post by: 90LX_Notch on July 23, 2018, 03:44:56 AM
Very nice setups Dave.

-Bob
Title: Re: Mill Vise From Morrison & Marvin Castings
Post by: b.lindsey on July 23, 2018, 12:24:32 PM
Great progress Dave. And beautiful pictures as always!!

Bill
Title: Re: Mill Vise From Morrison & Marvin Castings
Post by: fumopuc on July 23, 2018, 07:16:48 PM
Hi Dave, great pictures of an excellent Job.
Title: Re: Mill Vise From Morrison & Marvin Castings
Post by: Dave Otto on July 24, 2018, 01:09:44 AM
Thanks for the nice comments guys!
Chris, I will try to get an update on the Model Builders Vise thread posted this week.


Dave
Title: Re: Mill Vise From Morrison & Marvin Castings
Post by: steamer on July 24, 2018, 02:07:58 AM
OK so they have a bronze one and a 4140 one....right?

they look sweet!

Dave
Title: Re: Mill Vise From Morrison & Marvin Castings
Post by: zeeprogrammer on July 24, 2018, 02:20:50 PM
The finishes are amazing.
Beautiful work.  :ThumbsUp:
Title: Re: Mill Vise From Morrison & Marvin Castings
Post by: Tennessee Whiskey on July 24, 2018, 03:41:44 PM
Dave, beautiful work as usual. Now you know I have the other machine vise set and I guess now I'll have to pony up some AMEX points on this one also. Tell Luella I'll be in touch :lolb:

Cletus
Title: Re: Mill Vise From Morrison & Marvin Castings
Post by: Dave Otto on July 25, 2018, 01:14:53 AM
Thanks Guys,

Dave, yes there were some bronze castings, and the others are 4130 cast steel. Roland can clarify but I think that there is not going to be any more Bronze castings available due to the very high cost. There will be the cast steel kits available in the future but at the present time the foundry has a long lead time, I'm not sure when exactly, I'm guessing later this year.

Eric, I'm sure LuElla will happy to hear from you!

Zee, thanks for stopping by, I appreciate it.

Dave
Title: Re: Mill Vise From Morrison & Marvin Castings
Post by: Bobsmodels on July 25, 2018, 01:41:04 AM
Dave

Really nice work.  I certainly appreciate the time you take for the pictures and set-ups which will help me a lot.  Hope you can take some pics of how you do numbers on that angle, I have a few ideas for a setup but would like to see yours. 

Bob
Title: Re: Mill Vise From Morrison & Marvin Castings
Post by: Dave Otto on August 12, 2018, 09:07:17 PM
Hi Guys

Bob, thanks for stopping by and the nice comments, yes I plan to post some pictures of the engraving operation.
Next up is the machining of the nuts screws and thrust bearings.

(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10012/Vise_032.jpg)
The nut castings like all the others need little to no fettling. I went over these with a fine file and then bead blasted them.


(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10012/Vise_033.jpg)
The nuts were put in the mill vise upside down and clamped on the boss. As you can see they were set on some cardboard strips from the back of a tablet to be used as packing. The nuts were indicated along their length and adjusted to run true. This will insure the as cast features are in alignment with the machined surfaces.


(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10012/Vise_034.jpg)
The bottom surface was faced to thickness and then the sides were machined to the proper width. The sides were machined to be symmetric to the boss.


(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10012/Vise_035.jpg)
The nuts have been deburred and flipped over. The rebates are machined on each side, once again making sure to keep them symmetric to the cast boss.


(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10012/Vise_036.jpg)
In preparation for drilling a very light skim was taken across front face of the nut.


(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10012/Vise_038.jpg)
After drilling the 1/4"-28 left hand thread is tapped. The tap had to be ground back to the square drive to have enough clearance.

(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10012/Vise_037.jpg)
Using a small precision vise at the proper angle the large bevels were machined on the bottom of the nuts.


(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10012/Vise_039.jpg)
The last operation on the nuts was to carefully remove the cast radius on the angled surface of the boss. This is for clearance needed by the ball segment.
This should have been done before the large bevels were machined, then the nut could have simply been clamped on the sides and set at the proper angle. I didnít realize at the time the this radius was going to need to be removed.


(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10012/Vise_040.jpg)
The screws are machined form 1144 stress proof steel. I had done the first operations on the CNC lathe at work, including the single pointed left and right hand threads. I must have been having fun, looks like I made a few extras. :lolb:


(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10012/Vise_041.jpg)
The next operation was to mill the hex for the vise handle. I used a collet fixture and had the screw standing vertically, then the CNC was use to drive the cutter around the part.


(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10012/Vise_042.jpg)
The last operation for the screws was to machine away the excess material.


(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10012/Vise_043.jpg)
The stock is removed creating a relief behind the threads for the nut.


(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10012/Vise_044.jpg)
Early on Roland and I both searched for a proper thrust bearing for the vise and neither one of us were able to come up with anything small enough. So I decided to see if I could make on that would work. There wasnít much real estate to work with in this area; the 1.5mm balls were chosen because they were readily available and would fit in the space.

Here the ball cage has been drilled in the mill, and now in the lathe it is turned, bored and parted off.

(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10012/Vise_045.jpg)
Here is a family shot of two bearing assemblies. The bearing races were machined form O1 tool steel, hardened and ground.


(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10012/Vise_046.jpg)
The thrust bearing is assembled on the screw and packed with grease on final assembly.


(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10012/Vise_047.jpg)

(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10012/Vise_048.jpg)
Here are a couple shots showing how the nuts fit into the vise bodies.

Thanks for checking in.
Dave
Title: Re: Mill Vise From Morrison & Marvin Castings
Post by: crueby on August 12, 2018, 09:32:23 PM
Excellent sequences and explanations Dave!!


 :popcorn:
Title: Re: Mill Vise From Morrison & Marvin Castings
Post by: b.lindsey on August 12, 2018, 09:41:44 PM
Beautiful work Dave. Those look fantastic!!

Bill
Title: Re: Mill Vise From Morrison & Marvin Castings
Post by: zeeprogrammer on August 12, 2018, 09:52:24 PM
Wow. The works is just awesome.

Really makes me feel inadequate...but some day...some day!
Title: Re: Mill Vise From Morrison & Marvin Castings
Post by: Johnmcc69 on August 13, 2018, 12:39:08 AM
You would never think these are scaled down versions by looking at the details. Nice job on those thrust bearings!

 Real nice work!

 John
Title: Re: Mill Vise From Morrison & Marvin Castings
Post by: jeff l on August 13, 2018, 04:18:58 AM
awesome !
Title: Re: Mill Vise From Morrison & Marvin Castings
Post by: Dave Otto on August 15, 2018, 12:26:22 AM
Thanks for all the nice comments guys, they are appreciated.

Dave
Title: Re: Mill Vise From Morrison & Marvin Castings
Post by: steamer on August 15, 2018, 01:46:22 AM
Now when you getting those done so I can perform extensive consumer testing on the Aciera F1?....

I have a perfect example of the Aciera vise.....perfect in every way....and it's terrible really....I want a mini Kurt!...

50mm  wide   20mm high jaws on the Aciera
http://www.lathes.co.uk/aciera/index.html



Title: Re: Mill Vise From Morrison & Marvin Castings
Post by: Tennessee Whiskey on August 15, 2018, 08:42:41 PM
As I told Zee: trying to catch up. Dude, if you ever decide to give up the machining trade; you could go into the presentation of products business. The work is awesome as always, the pictures are crisp and clear, and the narrative is spot on. I have refrained, but, guess I need to get my order in and put them in the aging area with the machinist vice  :facepalm:. Just damn nice work Dave.

Eric
Title: Re: Mill Vise From Morrison & Marvin Castings
Post by: b.lindsey on August 15, 2018, 11:39:52 PM
The new DX6's are out now Dave. I will have to look but I think there is a DX4 as well.

Just checked, there is a DX4 but it's only 40.00 less than the DX6 if you can handle the larger size now weighing in at 65 lbs.
 
Bill
Title: Re: Mill Vise From Morrison & Marvin Castings
Post by: Dave Otto on August 16, 2018, 01:55:15 AM
Thanks Eric

I appreciate the nice comments, and that you take time from your busy day to look at my projects.
I think the castings are still out a ways so you have some time to ponder it. :lolb:

 :cheers:
Dave
Title: Re: Mill Vise From Morrison & Marvin Castings
Post by: Dave Otto on November 01, 2018, 10:01:16 PM
Hi Guys

Work continues on the Mill vise project and the next item/s in line are the jaws. The moveable and stationary jaws are cast in one piece. They could be cut in two and machined separately but what fun would that be? I decided to go ahead and do as much work as possible with them attached to each other.

The only part of the casting that doesnít get any machining is the internal cavity where the nut fits. Keeping this in mind it is important to keep this feature reasonably square with the machined surfaces of the jaw.

Starting out the top surface was skimmed just enough to clean it up.

(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10012/Vise_049.jpg)
Here the jaw casting is set up and the cavity indicated in; after which the up facing surface gets a light skim to clean it up.

(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10012/Vise_050.jpg)
Once the end was square with the cavity the sides could be machined; here the casting is set up in the mill vise and squared up using the previously machined surface.

(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10012/Vise_051.jpg)
Both sides were skimmed just enough to clean up the surface. I messed around with some different ways to measure the cavity to edge dimension. Putting the casting in a precision vise and using an adjustable parallel seemed to give me good repeatable readings.
The idea here was to determine how much more material to remove from each side to bring the part to final width and have the cavity centered.

(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10012/Vise_050a.jpg)
After the jaw was machined to the proper width the ends could be machined to bring the length to the proper dimension.

(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10012/Vise_052.jpg)
After the jaw casting was brought to size the rest of the features could be machined.
A program was created that covered all these features in one operation.
Here is one of the bronze castings in the vise ready to go.

(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10012/Vise_053.jpg)
Here it is after machining; the blind 5-40 screw holes will be tapped off line.

(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10012/Vise_054.jpg)
Here is one of the steel jaw castings after machining the bottom. 3d tool paths were used to machine the arc and V in the center.
You can see the area between the two jaws where there is plenty of room to saw them in two. We have a water cooled abrasive saw in the shop at work; that is what I used to cut them in two.
Some Kurt vises use a separate key to locate and align the stationary jaw and some have the key as an integral part of the jaw. When Marvin made the molds, he allowed for the jaw key to be machined as part of the jaw; so that is the way I decided to go.

(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10012/Vise_055.jpg)
Here is group shot showing before and after. Care was exercised to insure a proper sliding fit between the moveable jaw and the vise body.

(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10012/Vise_057.jpg)
After the jaws were separated they were machined to final dimension and the holes for the jaw plates drilled and tapped. Moveable jaw shown here. The center hole is where the dog point set screw goes that locks the jaw into the nut and is also used to adjust the backlash of the jaw.

(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10012/Vise_058.jpg)
And here is the stationary jaw.
After the jaws are assembled on the vise body the top surface is machined to final thickness.

More to follow and thanks for checking in.
Dave
Title: Re: Mill Vise From Morrison & Marvin Castings
Post by: Kim on November 02, 2018, 04:33:22 AM
You just always do impressive work, don't you, Dave? :)
Just love seeing your work.
Kim
Title: Re: Mill Vise From Morrison & Marvin Castings
Post by: sco on November 02, 2018, 07:47:28 AM
Really nice work - camera and machining ;-)

Simon.
Title: Re: Mill Vise From Morrison & Marvin Castings
Post by: gbritnell on November 02, 2018, 11:32:19 AM
Outstanding work Dave! If you don't mind me asking, what kind of camera and light setting are you using?
Each shot is so clear and crisp.
gbritnell
Title: Re: Mill Vise From Morrison & Marvin Castings
Post by: b.lindsey on November 02, 2018, 04:10:22 PM
Loving this thread Dave. Nice to see the update!!

Bill
Title: Re: Mill Vise From Morrison & Marvin Castings
Post by: Dave Otto on November 04, 2018, 05:42:35 PM
Thanks for the nice comments guys.

George the camera I use for most of my pictures is a Nikon Coolpix P530. I pretty much shoot everything in macro mode with the exposure and f stop set to auto. I do turn off the task lights on the machines or point them away, and try to never use the flash. I also have a Canon Power Shot point and shoot camera that I use at work for the pictures I take there, I don't remember the model though.

Thanks again,
Dave
Title: Re: Mill Vise From Morrison & Marvin Castings
Post by: Don1966 on November 04, 2018, 08:56:38 PM
Dave some awesome work as always coming from your shop, but bud sprinkle a few metal chips around so we know you did some actual work......... :lolb: just to damn clean man with awesome photos.... but you know .......I.........like.......... :Love:


 :drinking-41:
Don
Title: Re: Mill Vise From Morrison & Marvin Castings
Post by: Dave Otto on November 06, 2018, 12:03:57 AM
Thanks Don!
I'm glad to see you checking in.

Dave
Title: Re: Mill Vise From Morrison & Marvin Castings
Post by: Dave Otto on November 06, 2018, 12:05:31 AM
Hi Guys
Here are a few shots of the jaw plate machining; the jaw plates are machined form 01 tool steel and heat treated.

(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10012/Vise_059.jpg)
The first operation was to profile the plates and put the screw holes and counter bores in. I neglected to take a picture of the second operation; the parts were flipped over and faced to thickness.


(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10012/Vise_060.jpg)
The jaw plates were bagged up and heat treated in my small furnace.


(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10012/Vise_061.jpg)
The bags were carefully opened and the plates quenched in oil.


(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10012/Vise_062.jpg)
After tempering, the front and back surfaces were ground to clean them up and insure that they are flat.


(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10012/Vise_063.jpg)
After the front and backs were ground they were mounted on a fixture in pairs and the top and bottom surfaces were ground.


(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10012/Vise_064.jpg)
Here is a trial assembly of all the parts made so far.


More to follow.
Thanks,
Dave
Title: Re: Mill Vise From Morrison & Marvin Castings
Post by: Dave Otto on January 13, 2019, 11:53:08 PM
Hi Guys
Below are quite a few pictures outlining the steps I took to machine the vise handles.

(http://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10012/Vise_065.jpg)
The handle castings were a little banana shaped from the foundry; it appears that maybe they let the waxes get warm and they warped before they got around to casting them. Not a big deal the 4140 steel is very strong and springy so it can be straightened without fear of breaking.
The two piece handle was cast as one piece with the internal hex cored in the yoke. I decided to start out working on it by leaving it in one piece. Here Iím doing some final straightening; the initial straightening was done in my arbor press.
One note; because of the difficulty in getting good castings Roland is now having these cast as separate parts.

(http://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10012/Vise_065a.jpg)
A mandrel was made that is a tight push fit in the cored hex of the yoke.

(http://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10012/Vise_066.jpg)
With the yoke end pushed on the mandrel and supported by a live center the profiling of the yoke is done. I also chose to clean up the tapered section with some emery cloth.
The center hole was put in with the casting held in a 4 jaw chuck, no picture of that operation.

(http://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10012/Vise_067.jpg)
Here are 3 of the handles ready for the next operation.

(http://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10012/Vise_068.jpg)
With the casting flipped around and chucked on the excess stock, the yoke is parted off.

(http://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10012/Vise_069.jpg)
A split bushing was made to hold the yoke to drill for the pin; the bushing is also counter bored on the back side to clear the larger part of the yoke. This allowed me to slide the yoke in from the back end of the bushing with enough sticking out that I could face and chamfer the end; this was done in the lathe. I could have done the OD chamfer during the parting operation but not the ID. This makes a better looking part as everything is done in one setup.
Here the yoke is aligned with the collet block using a gauge pin and dial indicator.

(http://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10012/Vise_070.jpg)
In the mill the cored hole is dialed in, drilled and reamed for a slip fit on the dowel pin.

(http://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10012/Vise_070a.jpg)
The aluminum ball is held in a collet and backed up with a collet stop; it is faced, drilled and taped.

(http://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10012/Vise_071.jpg)
A couple sets of jaw plates were made to match the taper of the handle, always good to have a spare.
These were done using a ball end mill and 3d tool path in the mill.

(http://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10012/Vise_072.jpg)
Using the jaw plates the handle is indicated in

(http://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10012/Vise_072a.jpg)
Then turned and ready for threading.

(http://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10012/Vise_073.jpg)
The threads were single pointed

(http://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10012/Vise_074.jpg)
Checking the fit of the ball.

(http://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10012/Vise_075.jpg)
Here are some of the parts so far.

(http://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10012/Vise_076.jpg)
The handle needs a chamfer where the round meets the square. Here running the lathe in reverse and cutting on the back side a carbide boring bar is used for this operation.

(http://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10012/Vise_077.jpg)
The jaw plates will be used to do the finish machining on the square end of the handle.

(http://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10012/Vise_078.jpg)
Clamping lightly the flat is aligned, then tightened up

(http://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10012/Vise_079.jpg)
Next the cored hole is dialed in.

(http://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10012/Vise_080.jpg)
The handle is rounded and the hole drilled and reamed for a press fit on the dowel pin

(http://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10012/Vise_081.jpg)
After bead blasting and assembly it is time for a test fit on the vise, Iím quite pleased with how the handles turned out.


Thanks for checking in.
Dave

Title: Re: Mill Vise From Morrison & Marvin Castings
Post by: b.lindsey on January 14, 2019, 12:02:59 AM
Lot of work in those handles but they sure look the part and a lot prettier than the original Kurt handles too!!

Bill
Title: Re: Mill Vise From Morrison & Marvin Castings
Post by: steamer on January 14, 2019, 12:03:10 AM
That vise is delightful!!!!

Dave
Title: Re: Mill Vise From Morrison & Marvin Castings
Post by: Tennessee Whiskey on January 14, 2019, 12:07:12 AM
Well, if thatís the best you can do, I guess weíll have to live with it  :lolb: :lolb:; at least you got rid of the swarf this time  8). Seriously, awesome as always old pal. Hey, have you looked at Liptonís sensitive drill attachment video he just posted? He had the lever printed by Shapeway: just thought about it when I was reading this. 21st century ďcastingĒ I guess  :thinking:.

Cletus
Title: Re: Mill Vise From Morrison & Marvin Castings
Post by: steamer on January 14, 2019, 12:18:55 AM
Well, if thatís the best you can do, I guess weíll have to live with it  :lolb: :lolb:; at least you got rid of the swarf this time  8). Seriously, awesome as always old pal. Hey, have you looked at Liptonís sensitive drill attachment video he just posted? He had the lever printed by Shapeway: just thought about it when I was reading this. 21st century ďcastingĒ I guess  :thinking:.

Cletus

Ok now brotha...you're holdin out on me ....send me a link to this sensitive drill attachment.
Title: Re: Mill Vise From Morrison & Marvin Castings
Post by: Dave Otto on January 14, 2019, 12:34:14 AM
Thanks guys!

Love Tom's videos, I did watch the new one on the sensitive drill attachment.
I will keep trying harder, honest I will.  :lolb:

Dave
Title: Re: Mill Vise From Morrison & Marvin Castings
Post by: 90LX_Notch on January 14, 2019, 12:56:12 AM
Some slick machining there Dave.

-Bob
Title: Re: Mill Vise From Morrison & Marvin Castings
Post by: Johnmcc69 on January 14, 2019, 01:33:00 AM
Really beautiful work there dave.  :ThumbsUp:

 John
Title: Re: Mill Vise From Morrison & Marvin Castings
Post by: 10KPete on January 14, 2019, 01:52:02 AM
All I can afford to do is drool....   :P

Pete
Title: Re: Mill Vise From Morrison & Marvin Castings
Post by: Kim on January 14, 2019, 05:59:46 AM
Just astounding work, Dave, as always!
You do an amazing job!
Kim
Title: Re: Mill Vise From Morrison & Marvin Castings
Post by: sco on January 14, 2019, 07:43:28 AM
Top job - really crisp pictures, nice write-up and outstanding work!

Simon.
Title: Re: Mill Vise From Morrison & Marvin Castings
Post by: Dave Otto on January 16, 2019, 01:10:11 AM
Bob, John, Pete, Kim, & Simon; thanks for looking in and also the very nice comments.
I do appreciate them.

Dave
Title: Re: Mill Vise From Morrison & Marvin Castings
Post by: Jasonb on January 17, 2019, 09:16:24 AM
Very Nicely made and documented Dave.

I hope your entry of it into the Alibre Competition does well.

https://www.alibre.com/vote/
Title: Re: Mill Vise From Morrison & Marvin Castings
Post by: kvom on January 17, 2019, 10:57:05 AM
Voted.   :ThumbsUp:
Title: Re: Mill Vise From Morrison & Marvin Castings
Post by: b.lindsey on January 17, 2019, 02:11:06 PM
Me too  :ThumbsUp:

Bill
Title: Re: Mill Vise From Morrison & Marvin Castings
Post by: Tennessee Whiskey on January 17, 2019, 03:14:49 PM
One more  :ThumbsUp:
Title: Re: Mill Vise From Morrison & Marvin Castings
Post by: Dave Otto on January 17, 2019, 11:54:12 PM
Thanks for the support guys!

Not much chance of winning but I thought it would be fun to enter. I entered the Model Builders vise, and 4 post oiler last year. This year they did it a little different, you up loaded your files to their Drop Box account and they chose which three to use. They came up with the name Table Vise, that was not my doing.
Last year you could upload as many files to the user gallery as you wanted. Maybe the way they did it this year would level the field some, I don't know for sure.

If they do it again next year I may have something more substantial to enter. ;)

One thing is for sure there are some very nice entries this year.

Dave
Title: Re: Mill Vise From Morrison & Marvin Castings
Post by: rideblue00 on February 04, 2019, 02:55:20 PM
Looks great so far!

Sent from my SM-T560NU using Tapatalk

Title: Re: Mill Vise From Morrison & Marvin Castings
Post by: b.lindsey on February 04, 2019, 04:07:00 PM
Hi and welcome to the forum ride blue. Please take a minute to post an introduction in the "introduce yourself" section so that we will know about your interests in model engines.

Bill
Title: Re: Mill Vise From Morrison & Marvin Castings
Post by: scc on February 04, 2019, 04:56:02 PM

Dave,      For some reason I've missed this thread before and only just caught up.  Absolutely amazing quality..both workmanship and photos/write up.  What more can I say?     AWSOME :praise2:

Regards       Terry
Title: Re: Mill Vise From Morrison & Marvin Castings
Post by: kvom on February 04, 2019, 05:17:54 PM
Most of the entries are software models without the real thing.  I voted only for those that had been built.
Title: Re: Mill Vise From Morrison & Marvin Castings
Post by: Dave Otto on February 05, 2019, 12:10:54 AM
Thanks guys, I appreciate the nice comments.

Dave