Model Engine Maker

Supporting => My Workshop => Topic started by: zeeprogrammer on January 28, 2017, 04:44:37 PM

Title: Zee's Shop Beginnings
Post by: zeeprogrammer on January 28, 2017, 04:44:37 PM
Seeing as you're all model engineers, and capable of imagining that part hidden in a lump of metal...here's the beginning of my shop.

It's that section with the two windows towards the left. It measures about 13 1/2' by 20'. The windows are too high and will be dropped a bit. The 'room' to the right with the door will be a utility room (washer/dryer and storage).

Just outside of the shop will be the sink from the kitchen that's also being remodeled. The wonderful thing about the sink is that it has a hot water butler. Hot coffee will always be available.  ;D

(http://i605.photobucket.com/albums/tt139/zeeprogrammer/Family/Remodel/IMG_0206_zpsivch9vpq.jpg) (http://s605.photobucket.com/user/zeeprogrammer/media/Family/Remodel/IMG_0206_zpsivch9vpq.jpg.html)

Supposedly, things are scheduled to be complete by early May (weather permitting and all that).

As soon as the floor is in I'll be able to start setting up. I went with vinyl squares (not the stick on) over the concrete.

The left wall has no windows. There's nothing to see but my neighbor's house and I wanted wall space. The back windows look out over the backyard and boy do I look forward to that.

The shop will have the mill and lathe, desk, an old drafting table, and a couple of lab benches I retrieved from work when they replaced the lab. The benches have built-in overhead shop lights. I haven't decided whether to keep my mini-lathe and mini-mill. I suspect I will (always handy) but I may store them elsewhere if I run out of room. (Is there any doubt that won't happen?)

I'm pretty well set on the Grizzly G0759 mill that comes with a stand and DRO.

My initial thought on the lathe is the G0752. This is where (as in many elsewheres) I could use your thoughts and advice.
I haven't decided to buy a stand or build a bench.
Does anyone have one of these?
I haven't looked yet to see what accessories (primarily a QC) is available.

I'm also noodling on a name for my little world. Zee's Shop (and Zee's World) just doesn't cut it.
Knowing you people I fear to ask for suggestions...so at least keep it clean. My grand-daughter will be one of the first visitors.

Updates as I can.
Title: Re: Zee's Shop Beginnings
Post by: Steamer5 on January 28, 2017, 04:52:40 PM
Zee!

Great to see you back!

Bet you are one happy camper with the new shop started! Is Mrs's Zee happy with her new rooms too?
Shops can almost never be too big...you just gotta pay for them!
As for a name.....Cletus will chime in soon!

Cheers Kerrin
Title: Re: Zee's Shop Beginnings
Post by: b.lindsey on January 28, 2017, 04:56:15 PM
Great beginnings Zee!!  Good to see you back as well. I will hope the weather holds out for you and the renovations.

Bill
Title: Re: Zee's Shop Beginnings
Post by: mklotz on January 28, 2017, 05:01:48 PM
Spaßlager
Title: Re: Zee's Shop Beginnings
Post by: Flyboy Jim on January 28, 2017, 05:12:37 PM
That's going to be a great new shop Zee!

Machinery wise have you looked at any of the Precision Matthews equipment? http://www.machinetoolonline.com/NewlatheIndex.html It seems to get good reviews and it sounds like they're helpful folks to work with.

Their PM 10x22V Variable Speed Lathe looks pretty similar to the G0752: http://www.machinetoolonline.com/PM1030.html

Are you going to have any 220 volt power ran to your shop? Might come in handy at some point.

Keep the pictures coming.

Jim
Title: Re: Zee's Shop Beginnings
Post by: Jo on January 28, 2017, 05:24:53 PM
 :headscratch: Why is it taking until May: That should be a 6 week job..

I'm also noodling on a name for my little world. Zee's Shop (and Zee's World) just doesn't cut it.
Knowing you people I fear to ask for suggestions...so at least keep it clean. My grand-daughter will be one of the first visitors.

Zee Zone  :naughty:

Jo
Title: Re: Zee's Shop Beginnings
Post by: Kim on January 28, 2017, 06:12:04 PM
Wow Zee! That's pretty exciting!  Make sure and keep us updated with progress pictures, OK?  Can't let this build project go unattended!  We have to help you maintain quality control  :Lol:

Machinery wise have you looked at any of the Precision Matthews equipment? http://www.machinetoolonline.com/NewlatheIndex.html It seems to get good reviews and it sounds like they're helpful folks to work with.

Their PM 10x22V Variable Speed Lathe looks pretty similar to the G0752: http://www.machinetoolonline.com/PM1030.html

Are you going to have any 220 volt power ran to your shop? Might come in handy at some point.

The Precision Matthews equipment looks pretty good.  I gave it serious consideration before I ended up with my Grizzly.  I think they are basically the same equipment as Grizzly gets, and very similar quality.  I have heard inconsistent reviews of customer support. Some people say its been great, others say its pretty spotty.  They are very nice people, if you can get a hold of them.  And the owner is (reportedly) very knowledgeable on his product lines. But he's a busy guy and has a lot of people to support, so sometimes getting a hold of him seems to be the biggest issue.  I've never had a problem getting a hold of Grizzly support, and have found them to be very knowledgeable and helpful.  So, customer support is probably a toss-up here, maybe a little toward Grizzly since I think they have more people supporting their lines.

Also, availability seems to be difficult sometimes. Some people report waiting many months for an order they have placed, and some get theirs quickly.  I'm sure its because he orders the machines in batches, but can't afford to keep a very deep stock. So, if you're lucky, they have one in stock. But usually, you have to wait for the next shipment, which could be several months out.  Availability, Grizzly has the edge, but this is a short term issue.  If they have what you want in stock, or if you're willing to wait, this isn't an issue.

For me, the thing that finally tipped the balance toward Grizzly was that I have more confidence that Grizzly will still be around in 10 years to support my machine.  PM might be around, and it might not.  Its one guy (a good, honest fellow, from all accounts) who batch orders machines from China, and will provide you support.

That's how I ended up with Grizzly over PM.  But I think they are both quite good machines.

Oh, and I agree with Jim.  Make sure you get some 220 put in. And LOTS of 110v sockets everywhere. You can't have too many power outlets.

Good luck!
Kim

Title: Re: Zee's Shop Beginnings
Post by: gerritv on January 28, 2017, 07:21:33 PM
Awesome Zee!!

My shop is a bit shorter than yours. At present lots of space but now that I bought about 1000lb of steel and Al from an estate it is starting to feel smaller.
Don't be too quick to lower those windows, it might interfere with counter space or shelving above a workbench.

I have a G0602 equivalent, aka the non-variable speed version. Go for the variable speed, you won't regret the flexibility it gives to change speeds while cutting. Some will no doubt pipe up to say 'get a full gearbox' but I don't find changing the gears for threading too onerous. There is a calculator from Windows for the G0602 that gives alternate gearing, and there are some charts as well. These can lead you to leave gears in, or picks ones, that require fewer changes for your threading needs.

As for the bench, the advantage of the purpose built is that it is one less thing for you to build :-) It will make for a solid platform with leveling feet included. I had to build my own bench and I am finding it a bit lacking in rigidity but it will have to do.

Your lights should be 110v LED tubes, no heat generation and no buzzing. Also l low power needs.

I put 2 quad boxes on the wall behind my lathe/mill bench, you can't have too many plug points. This leaves me space to plug in lights, small compressor for coolant mister, machines, tool post grinder etc. On the surface with conduit will let you rejig when/if needed. Digging into drywall is not fun after the fact.

Gerrit

Title: Re: Zee's Shop Beginnings
Post by: crueby on January 28, 2017, 07:30:56 PM
The new shop is looking great! The birds will like that open ceiling...  :Lol:

Name, how about 'New Zeeland', since it is your new shop?

 :cheers:
Title: Re: Zee's Shop Beginnings
Post by: Don1966 on January 28, 2017, 07:36:19 PM
Zee glad to see things progress you old Dog. Bet your like a crawfish on a hot tin roof just jumping to get going. Happy for you bud and you could call it Zee's Close Enuf Machine Shop (Branch Office). Like that you keep in standard with Stan and Eric's Close Enuf Machine Shop. Just saying..... :pinkelephant:

Don
Title: Re: Zee's Shop Beginnings
Post by: zeeprogrammer on January 28, 2017, 07:40:13 PM
Thanks all.

I looked at the machine you mentioned Jim. It does look similar. A bit more expensive and more freight than Grizzly.
I think Kim has some good points about support.
I thought it interesting that the Grizzly machine is available on Amazon.

As for 220V...I can't imagine any need for it. Bigger machines, welding, etc. are not in my plans.
However, the dryer is right on the other side of the wall which means 220V is nearby. I'll ask the electrician about it.
Someone is going to take about circuit load...but I can work around the Saturday laundry shift  ;D

Did I mention we're going solar?

"Zee Zone"...best I've heard so far.
Hey I could use your help here Marv. Something German would be wunderbar. (I think zone is the same in German).

A pretty big expense but this is what we've saved for. It's about nesting for retirement and being able to stay here as long as possible and not having to burden our kids.

A couple of new posts since I started this one...
Gerrit - thanks. Good to know about the bench. And yes...LED lighting.
Chris - no. That would confuse our friends in a number of countries.
Don - surprised you didn't suggest Zee's Tu-Tu Shop.

A couple of pictures to explain why this is taking so long...

As of today...far side is dining room, then kitchen, and I'm standing in family room. All of which gets bumped out 8'.

(http://i605.photobucket.com/albums/tt139/zeeprogrammer/Remodel/IMG_0219_zps3qsrmblm.jpg) (http://s605.photobucket.com/user/zeeprogrammer/media/Remodel/IMG_0219_zps3qsrmblm.jpg.html)

As of yesterday...the backside of the house. Left to right is dining room (getting turned into T's 'shop'), kitchen, and family room with sun porch).

(http://i605.photobucket.com/albums/tt139/zeeprogrammer/Remodel/IMG_0198_zpshsrqbc88.jpg) (http://s605.photobucket.com/user/zeeprogrammer/media/Remodel/IMG_0198_zpshsrqbc88.jpg.html)
Title: Re: Zee's Shop Beginnings
Post by: Don1966 on January 28, 2017, 07:46:52 PM
Hey bud,where are the dancing piccys you promised? Come on man let's see them! :stickpoke:

Don
Title: Re: Zee's Shop Beginnings
Post by: crueby on January 28, 2017, 07:56:47 PM
Wait, where is the Shop Elf's bedroom?!
Title: Re: Zee's Shop Beginnings
Post by: joe d on January 28, 2017, 09:19:20 PM
Good to see you back, Zee.  The shop is going to be nice.
Here's my entry in the naming contest:  (imagine it's in the appropriate style of script)

" Zee's Schnitzelhaus und Machinengeschaft"

Cheers, Joe
Title: Re: Zee's Shop Beginnings
Post by: zeeprogrammer on January 28, 2017, 10:58:40 PM
Hey bud,where are the dancing piccys you promised? Come on man let's see them!

I'm working on it! I really am. Photocrap is stuck at 90% loading on one video. And the other video I have to get from family. T didn't realize and deleted it from her phone. (I don't want to link to FB for obvious reasons - I don't trust any of you.)

Wait, where is the Shop Elf's bedroom?!

I have no elves. Unlike you, I do not provide mint chocolate chip cookies. I haven't come up with something to entice them in. Truth be told, I think they're afraid of what they see here.

Here's my entry in the naming contest:  (imagine it's in the appropriate style of script)
" Zee's Schnitzelhaus und Machinengeschaft"

Close. But Schnitzelhaus is in T's shop. No way am I going to compete with her.

"Zee's Machinengeschaft" could work although it's not quite generic enough. I don't intend to just do machining.  ;D

Oops. That may come across a bit blasphemous.
Title: Re: Zee's Shop Beginnings
Post by: mklotz on January 28, 2017, 11:08:43 PM
It's Maschinen, not Machinen.  Darn Pennsylvanian Dutchmen.
Title: Re: Zee's Shop Beginnings
Post by: zeeprogrammer on January 28, 2017, 11:11:24 PM
It's Maschinen, not Machinen.  Darn Pennsylvanian Dutchmen.

Is that it? Is that all you can contribute? C'mon Marv. I'm counting on you for a great shop name.

And darn me...I should have caught the typo (missing 's')
Title: Re: Zee's Shop Beginnings
Post by: Maryak on January 28, 2017, 11:26:29 PM
Hi Carl,

That's great a nice new shop! Congatulations.

I like "Zee's World" as a name or perhaps "Zeeprogrammer's  Bits."

Regards
Bob
Title: Re: Zee's Shop Beginnings
Post by: mklotz on January 28, 2017, 11:34:43 PM
There are lots of people, myself included, who would be leery of entering Zee's World.  Damn, that's scarier than visiting "Marv's Mind".  Well, now that I think about it, maybe not that scary.
Title: Re: Zee's Shop Beginnings
Post by: crueby on January 28, 2017, 11:40:13 PM
There are lots of people, myself included, who would be leery of entering Zee's World.  Damn, that's scarier than visiting "Marv's Mind".  Well, now that I think about it, maybe not that scary.


Both sound like wild rides!


Welcome back Zee!
Title: Re: Zee's Shop Beginnings
Post by: zeeprogrammer on January 28, 2017, 11:40:29 PM
I like "Zee's World" as a name or perhaps "Zeeprogrammer's  Bits."

 :thinking: "Zee's Bits". I like that. It ties into my being a software engineer, yet is generic enough to be anything.

Hey Marv...what's a good German words for 'bits'? (I tried the english-german translation but got "bits" back).

On a related note...I'm not sure about spelling...schmarn? Supposedly a mess but my mom used to make what she called 'schmarn'. Old bread collected over time, left on the window sill to dry, then soaked in egg stuff and fried. (Not so unlike french toast but had a special flavor). Loved it. I topped it with applesauce and sugar. Dad used crushed pineapple.

I've tried looking but maybe it's not a real word. Mom used to talk about being wabbie-wabbie too. (Like warm and comfy.) Pronounce the 'w' as a 'v'.

P.S. No, you're right. Marv's Mind is very scary. Particularly for those that might learn something but are intent on being...
Title: Re: Zee's Shop Beginnings
Post by: mklotz on January 28, 2017, 11:52:00 PM
Those both sound like Plattdeutsch.  Try to find an online dictionary for that abomination.  You might want to ask one of the Dutchmen in your area, too, especially the Mennonites - their German is atrocious.
Title: Re: Zee's Shop Beginnings
Post by: gerritv on January 29, 2017, 12:03:31 AM
Proper Dutch would be Machine Werkplaats for machine shop. But then we are not talking about those super powers.

You could try finding some Friesians, their version of German is related to Plattdeutsch, it certainly isn't Dutch as the rest of us know it.

Gerrit
Title: Re: Zee's Shop Beginnings
Post by: Dave Otto on January 29, 2017, 01:20:51 AM
Hey Zee

It's great to see pictures of your new shop and remodel and also to see you posting again.  :ThumbsUp:


Dave
Title: Re: Zee's Shop Beginnings
Post by: zeeprogrammer on January 29, 2017, 01:36:03 AM
Those both sound like Plattdeutsch.  Try to find an online dictionary for that abomination.  You might want to ask one of the Dutchmen in your area, too, especially the Mennonites - their German is atrocious.

Mom was born/raised in Bavaria just south of Munich. The language may be low German perhaps (like being from the Ozark hills) but certainly not Mennonite, Dutch, Pennsylvania or such. I remember coming back to the states and had difficulty understanding my teacher. Not much different than an easterner trying to figure out what someone from the mid-west is saying (or vice-versa). Mom moved to Munich when she was 16, she and Opi and Omi were bombed out, rebuilt, met my dad and the rest is history.  ;D Well actually, it was Omi and Mom that got bombed out. I think Opi was a Russian prisoner by then. He came home two years after the war. One of the fortunates.

I may be misspelling 'schmarn' but it's no abomination.  ;D It was one of my favorite meals.

I hope you have a 'vabie-vabie' evening.  ;D
Title: Re: Zee's Shop Beginnings
Post by: Flyboy Jim on January 29, 2017, 02:49:36 AM

As for 220V...I can't imagine any need for it. Bigger machines, welding, etc. are not in my plans.
However, the dryer is right on the other side of the wall which means 220V is nearby. I'll ask the electrician about it.
Someone is going to take about circuit load...but I can work around the Saturday laundry shift  ;D


Here's what I'd do Zee (actually it is what I did when I finished out my hanger last winter). I ran a dedicated 220 volt circuit to my shop room to an outlet box. Then, when I moved my woodworking equipment back in, I put an extender box on that 220 volt box and then ran conduit outside the wall to my equipment that needed 220 volt. Shouldn't be expensive to have that done and then it would be there if you ever did need it. Some equipment is set up to be run on either 110 or 220 volts (minor rewiring in the motor). Given the option, it always runs way better, with more power on 220 volt. Food for thought.

Jim
Title: Re: Zee's Shop Beginnings
Post by: mklotz on January 29, 2017, 03:49:16 AM
Those both sound like Plattdeutsch.  Try to find an online dictionary for that abomination.  You might want to ask one of the Dutchmen in your area, too, especially the Mennonites - their German is atrocious.
I may be misspelling 'schmarn' but it's no abomination.  ;D It was one of my favorite meals.

I wasn't suggesting that "schman" was an abomination.  I was referring to Plattdeutsch which, to my ear, sounds like hillbilly pronounced with a mouthful of spätzele.
Title: Re: Zee's Shop Beginnings
Post by: tinglett on January 29, 2017, 03:57:54 AM
Did I mention we're going solar?

Oooo...tell us more!  Solar powered shop equipment maybe?

Todd
Title: Re: Zee's Shop Beginnings
Post by: fumopuc on January 29, 2017, 07:00:04 AM
I like "Zee's World" as a name or perhaps "Zeeprogrammer's  Bits."

 :thinking: "Zee's Bits". I like that. It ties into my being a software engineer, yet is generic enough to be anything.

Hey Marv...what's a good German words for 'bits'? (I tried the english-german translation but got "bits" back).

On a related note...I'm not sure about spelling...schmarn? Supposedly a mess but my mom used to make what she called 'schmarn'. Old bread collected over time, left on the window sill to dry, then soaked in egg stuff and fried. (Not so unlike french toast but had a special flavor). Loved it. I topped it with applesauce and sugar. Dad used crushed pineapple.

I've tried looking but maybe it's not a real word. Mom used to talk about being wabbie-wabbie too. (Like warm and comfy.) Pronounce the 'w' as a 'v'.

P.S. No, you're right. Marv's Mind is very scary. Particularly for those that might learn something but are intent on being...


Hi Carl, nice progress with your livingspace and shop extension.
Conncerning the German translation of bits, the right word should be "Binärzeichen or Binärziffer".
This is math or computer related, but as you already mentioned, the word bit in the computerworld is already global and is taken over in many languages.
Title: Re: Zee's Shop Beginnings
Post by: Niels Abildgaard on January 29, 2017, 07:17:21 AM
No lathe without power-crossfeed in my shop.
I have an earlier version of the mill mentioned and am very happy with that.
If it can be had with VFD and belt drive I would buy that.

BitZeesHaus?
Title: Re: Zee's Shop Beginnings
Post by: Roger B on January 29, 2017, 08:29:09 AM
Looks to be a fun project  :ThumbsUp:  :ThumbsUp:  :wine1:

Will this veer off in the direction of suitable germanish names rather than food?  ;)  ;)
Title: Re: Zee's Shop Beginnings
Post by: Tennessee Whiskey on January 29, 2017, 01:29:03 PM
Oh gawd, he's back and rude as ever; didn't even provide food and drinks  :lolb:. Looks like construction is moving along. Having grown up around house construction in the 60's-70's I'm amazed at the use of the lam-beams in so many applications today. Well, you asked:

1. Leave the windows high. Great place for the work bench.
2. I'm a bit concerned about the flooring. If you are talking about composiite vinyl tile (CVT), it's pretty when waxed, however, it's a major PITA to keep that way. It scratches easily and may not be very friendly with swarf and especially oily swarf. I can highly recommend just polish grinding the concrete and staining. With today's technology, they can make it look anyway you desire and cleanup is a snap.
3. 220v, Do as Jim suggested. One small 220 sub box and you can pull from it if ever desired.
4. Equipment: the mill looks good, especially if you should ever consider a CNC conversion. The lathe: I think you should squeeze just a few more pennies out of the purchasing dept and go for the G4002. I'm with Niels, I really like and use my power crossfeed. I just think a few years down the road you would be happier with it as it's just a heavier machine.
5. Name: Zee Peanut Gallery, Zee Swarf Cafe, or Zee Stinking Hoppie Haus

So those are my opinions and you know what they say about them  8), everybody has one   :lolb:. Nice to have you back, seriously. Now what's for dinner tonight? Tell everybody I said how they doing.

Cletus
Title: Re: Zee's Shop Beginnings
Post by: Don1966 on January 29, 2017, 02:24:35 PM
1. Leave the windows high. Great place for the work bench.
2. I'm a bit concerned about the flooring. If you are talking about composiite vinyl tile (CVT), it's pretty when waxed, however, it's a major PITA to keep that way. It scratches easily and may not be very friendly with swarf and especially oily swarf. I can highly recommend just polish grinding the concrete and staining. With today's technology, they can make it look anyway you desire and cleanup is a snap.
3. 220v, Do as Jim suggested. One small 220 sub box and you can pull from it if ever desired.
4. Equipment: the mill looks good, especially if you should ever consider a CNC conversion. The lathe: I think you should squeeze just a few more pennies out of the purchasing dept and go for the G4002. I'm with Niels, I really like and use my power crossfeed. I just think a few years down the road you would be happier with it as it's just a heavier machine.
5. Name: Zee Peanut Gallery, Zee Swarf Cafe, or Zee Stinking Hoppie Haus

Cletus
I agree I have that and it's a pain Zee. 220v receptacles is a must so plan on one or two.

Don
Title: Re: Zee's Shop Beginnings
Post by: Flyboy Jim on January 29, 2017, 03:00:17 PM
Oh boy.............since we're spending more of Zee's money  :naughty: to upsize his lathe, here's one that would be worth a look see: http://www.machinetoolonline.com/PM-1228VF-LB.html I'm a real fan of the D1-4 Camlock Spindle Mount and Variable Speed Brushless DC Motor Drive. Probably the attraction for me is that, coming from a Sherline background, it seems like sort of a "Super Sherline".

Here's the link to the 1st of 8 YouTube videos of Frank Hoose doing a review of this lathe: UNfUI9uo4L0
Jim
Title: Re: Zee's Shop Beginnings
Post by: zeeprogrammer on January 29, 2017, 03:27:32 PM
Thanks all.

I'll look into the 220V. They have to run it for the dryer anyway so it shouldn't be a big deal.

Yes our intent is to go solar panel. With the addition of the garage/workshop, and extending the 1st floor we're significantly adding more roof. The new HVAC for the addition and part of the house will be electric hybrid. When the time comes to replace the current HVAC and hot water heater then they'll go electric.

As for flooring. I'll stay with the vinyl (cheap and not waxed). I understand the concerns but this isn't a high production area. My current basement shop has vinyl tile and has held up pretty good.

That G4002 is an additional $1000. I don't think I can justify it.

Regarding power cross feed...I don't know much (anything) about it. Nor do I see any references to it on the Grizzly site for the two machines. Tell me more.

You're all giving me good ideas for the shop name. Thanks!

Just saw your post Jim. Nice but out of my price range. I see it has power feed but I can't figure out how it works.
Title: Re: Zee's Shop Beginnings
Post by: kvom on January 29, 2017, 03:51:49 PM
My shop has 8 220V circuits.  They are not big deal to wire in and you never know when you'll need one.  Mainly just need breaker space in the box. 

Larger air compressor my be the first use, and you might fall in love with a Bridgeport or a European piece of gear.

Leave the windows high for reasons stated earlier.
Title: Re: Zee's Shop Beginnings
Post by: kvom on January 29, 2017, 03:55:19 PM
Power cross feed on manual lathes work off the lead screw.  A lever engages a worm to gear train that engages the lead screw on the saddle.  Really useful when facing larger diameters at slow feed rates.
Title: Re: Zee's Shop Beginnings
Post by: Jo on January 29, 2017, 04:12:19 PM
Power cross feed on manual lathes work off the lead screw. 

 ::) Some Lathes take their power feeds off the leadscrew: Big C has a separate power shaft and Mr Silky has a vari speed motor fitted on his saddle for sliding, both have that all important item for power feeds: clutches  :)

Jo

Title: Re: Zee's Shop Beginnings
Post by: mklotz on January 29, 2017, 04:32:20 PM
Not that most of the mill-owning folks here would need it but power cross feed is very useful if you use a milling attachment on your lathe.
Title: Re: Zee's Shop Beginnings
Post by: Jasonb on January 29, 2017, 04:34:33 PM
Even some of the far eastern hobby lathes have a separate feed shaft to save wear on the leadscrew.  ;) and the latest ones also have clutches ;) ;)

Shop is off to a good start Zee
Title: Re: Zee's Shop Beginnings
Post by: Flyboy Jim on January 29, 2017, 04:41:17 PM
Thanks all.

I'll look into the 220V. They have to run it for the dryer anyway so it shouldn't be a big deal.

Yes our intent is to go solar panel. With the addition of the garage/workshop, and extending the 1st floor we're significantly adding more roof. The new HVAC for the addition and part of the house will be electric hybrid. When the time comes to replace the current HVAC and hot water heater then they'll go electric.

As for flooring. I'll stay with the vinyl (cheap and not waxed). I understand the concerns but this isn't a high production area. My current basement shop has vinyl tile and has held up pretty good.

That G4002 is an additional $1000. I don't think I can justify it.

Regarding power cross feed...I don't know much (anything) about it. Nor do I see any references to it on the Grizzly site for the two machines. Tell me more.

You're all giving me good ideas for the shop name. Thanks!

Just saw your post Jim. Nice but out of my price range. I see it has power feed but I can't figure out how it works.

I don't see power cross feed listed in the G0752 specs either. The PM-1022V has power cross feed listed. That might account for the price difference. Also the PM-1022V comes with a wedge type quick change tool post set, while the G0752 has a turret type. In my mind, that would make the PM-1022V a better buy than the G0752.

Jim
Title: Re: Zee's Shop Beginnings
Post by: mklotz on January 29, 2017, 05:00:37 PM
Don't underestimate the utility of a four tool turret tool post.  QCs are fine if your job requires a lot of tools and you enjoy making/buying/storing tool holders but for everyday use an indexing four banger, fitted with the right tool set, will get the job done quicker than a QC.

I have both and the turret gets more use than the QC.
Title: Re: Zee's Shop Beginnings
Post by: Tennessee Whiskey on January 29, 2017, 06:51:20 PM
Well, so it seems the finance department has vetoed most of our suggestions. So, any insight into the food situation  :lolb:

Cletus
Title: Re: Zee's Shop Beginnings
Post by: Niels Abildgaard on January 29, 2017, 07:03:05 PM
Deleted
Title: Re: Zee's Shop Beginnings
Post by: zeeprogrammer on January 29, 2017, 08:51:05 PM
Thanks all.

The G0752 is still top choice but I have more research to do and see if nifty features (that I would use) will justify going to a higher price.

As for windows...I'll leave one high and one low.  ;D
I understand the issues but I don't think I'll be standing by the window. True, the current plan is to have my desk at the other end but if I change my mind and put the desk at the window end then I would like to enjoy the wildlife. When lowered, the windows would be about 6" above the desk.

I'm not having any luck getting these videos up. One I'm trying to upload to Photobucket and it keeps dying at 90%. The other is a link to a facebook page and it doesn't seem to go there.

I'll keep trying.

I've always used a QC and like it. But that will come later and I can play with the turret tool post.

220V for an air compressor? That must be a monster. But it's a good question. I'm thinking something less than 30 gal.
The only application I can think of that requires quite a bit of air would be the blast cabinet. Sufficient?

As for food...nothing special. Last night was steak and baked potatoes and an escarole/walnut salad.

Tonight is probably left-overs.
Title: Re: Zee's Shop Beginnings
Post by: crueby on January 29, 2017, 08:56:03 PM
Have you tried using YouTube for the videos? I've had good luck there, you can still mark them Unlisted so they dont show up in the normal YouTube lists while being able to share them here. Photobucket does die around 90% a lot if you have an adblocker or flashblocker going, unless you allow just the right things through.
Title: Re: Zee's Shop Beginnings
Post by: zeeprogrammer on January 29, 2017, 10:20:44 PM
Thanks Chris. Good to know.

I've never posted to YouTube. I'll have to give it a try.
Title: Re: Zee's Shop Beginnings
Post by: zeeprogrammer on January 29, 2017, 11:40:13 PM
It's never easy.
Some of the replies have given me pause with respect to lathe choice.
And a little digging turns up a possible problem with my 1st choice - the G0752.

It sounds like it has a funny spindle thread making it difficult to attach a collet chuck.

I'm inclined to stick with Grizzly. Primarily because it's more of a known quantity and loads of people use them. I must admit to a bit of bias in that a main warehouse is in/near my home town which is silly because it's 1000 miles away now and I'm lucky to visit once a year.)

Ideally...

Variable speed
Able to attach a collet chuck
5" or bigger 3-jaw and 4-jaw
Able to turn up to 5" flywheel (bigger would be nice but that would be pretty rare).
QC available
Y distance not a biggie
Sounds like power cross feed is nice but I have no experience.

Mainly...I don't want an oddball. And seeing there's a funny spindle thread (if true) puts me off.


Title: Re: Zee's Shop Beginnings
Post by: mklotz on January 29, 2017, 11:49:19 PM
Funny spindle thread?  Surely you're going to buy a lathe with a quick change gearbox and learn to cut threads. After that the world is your oyster.

One of the first things I did after buying my (Enco) lathe was to make a collet chuck for it. 
Title: Re: Zee's Shop Beginnings
Post by: gerritv on January 30, 2017, 12:48:36 AM

Mainly...I don't want an oddball. And seeing there's a funny spindle thread (if true) puts me off.

Spindle is 1 3/4-8tpi. Not common but: Both Grizzly and LMS sell back plates for a reasonable price. How often do you need to add one? Once you make an ER32 or ER40 collet chuck (using a back plate) then you are done with that. And you can always cut the threads yourself in a moment of madness.
The chucks have locking tabs for those situations where you want/need to run in reverse.
I have a used 2003 vintage King KC1022ML, essentially a G0602. It was missing some parts, happily obtained via Grizzly. I think parts support is something worthwhile.

Gerrit
Title: Re: Zee's Shop Beginnings
Post by: zeeprogrammer on January 30, 2017, 12:57:15 AM
Wow. I'd been at this for a while but I'm realizing how little I know.
Yep...going to have to learn about back plates etc.

As for threading...I don't really expect to do much of that. On the other hand, I don't want to get 'screwed' the one time I would need to.  ;D

Regarding the collet chuck...I'm thinking of all the posts I've seen with small diameter round and/or hex parts. Seems a real nice to have.
Title: Re: Zee's Shop Beginnings
Post by: Tennessee Whiskey on January 30, 2017, 01:27:33 AM
So what was leftover and how was it. I can't imagine a stinking hoppie drinking kind of feller having any steak leftover  :lolb: :lolb:

Cletus
Title: Re: Zee's Shop Beginnings
Post by: PStechPaul on January 30, 2017, 02:23:30 AM
Looks like your shop is coming along really well. I am now starting another round of renovations on my house(s) and I will be moving my lathe and grinder and band saw into the reasonably nice room where I have my mill/drill. I would like to have the lathe and workbench at the windows, but they are very low and would be mostly obscured by the chip guard of the lathe and the tool hanging panel in the back of the workbench. I may buy the Harbor Freight four-drawer wooden workbench for the lathe, and I will probable put casters on it so it can be moved (like the home-made bench for the mill).

As for a name, how about "A to Zee Metal Health Clinic"?  :Lol:
Title: Re: Zee's Shop Beginnings
Post by: gerritv on January 30, 2017, 03:20:40 AM
There are three basic ways to get a collet chuck on the lathe:
1. Buy an ER40-MT4 collet chuck, make a draw bar and buy good collets. http://www.shars.com/products/toolholding-workholding/tool-holders/morse-taper-4-er40-er-collet-holder
2. Buy or make an ER40 collet chuck to mount on a back plate. http://www.littlemachineshop.com/products/product_view.php?ProductID=5452&category=
3. Make one to screw directly onto the spindle: http://www.projectsinmetal.com/two-handy-accessories-for-your-g0602-lathe-part-2-an-er40-chuck-adapter/

In fact that site has a lot of good info on the G0602, the belt swap version of G0752

The reason you need a collet chuck is to allow working on a piece of material, taking it out for another operation and putting it back with good concentricity assured.

Gerrit
Title: Re: Zee's Shop Beginnings
Post by: Xldevil on January 30, 2017, 05:21:41 AM
Hello.
If you like to have it a German name,what about
Zees Zerspanungsschuppen?(Zee's chipping shed)
Btw.
The word "Schmarn"is genuine bavarian German.
In Bavaria Schmarn has the meaning of a joke,nonsense,rubbish or bullshit.
Kaiserschmarren is more or less a shredded pancake.
Title: Re: Zee's Shop Beginnings
Post by: zeeprogrammer on January 30, 2017, 10:38:06 PM
The word "Schmarn"is genuine bavarian German.
In Bavaria Schmarn has the meaning of a joke,nonsense,rubbish or bullshit.
Kaiserschmarren is more or less a shredded pancake.

Thank you!
Wow. After all these years I realize now she was saying 'schmarren'
From wiki...Schmarren is also a colloquialism used in Austrian and Bavarian to mean trifle, mishmash, mess, rubbish, or nonsense.
I remember her saying it meant 'mess'.

The reason you need a collet chuck is to allow working on a piece of material, taking it out for another operation and putting it back with good concentricity assured.

Thanks for the info Gerrit. And yes that's why I'm interested.

Paul...too many words.  :D Nor do I want to include A to Y  :ROFL:
Title: Re: Zee's Shop Beginnings
Post by: zeeprogrammer on January 30, 2017, 10:45:51 PM
Forgot about Cletus (so easy to do)...

I thought it was left-over steak and taters but she surprised me with her special lamb stew. Good stuff!

And before you ask, tonight is some kind of chicken dish my daughter made. I'm hoping for her killer curry chicken but I'm thinking it's something else.

T and K do a meal swap every weekend. Saves them work, me dishes, and they're both wonderful cooks.

And that's the menu for today.
Title: Re: Zee's Shop Beginnings
Post by: mklotz on January 30, 2017, 11:16:38 PM
Why collets...

Repeatable concentricity has already been mentioned.

Secure holding of very small diameter stock.

Auto-centering of square stock (with square collets, of course)

Nothing to grab your hands or clothing when working close-in with hand tools, e.g. files, sanding wands, etc.

Ability to use pot chucks for thin disk shaped workpieces.
Title: Re: Zee's Shop Beginnings
Post by: crueby on January 30, 2017, 11:41:30 PM
Marv, what is a pot chuck? I haven't heard that term before.
Title: Re: Zee's Shop Beginnings
Post by: Flyboy Jim on January 31, 2017, 12:27:28 AM
Marv, what is a pot chuck? I haven't heard that term before.

I know............I know!! It's Pot Roast made with Chuck Roast!  :LickLips: Did I get it right!   :naughty:

Jim
Title: Re: Zee's Shop Beginnings
Post by: zeeprogrammer on January 31, 2017, 12:28:38 AM
Marv, what is a pot chuck? I haven't heard that term before.

Hee hee hee. Does anyone else know what's coming?

It turned out tonight was Chicken Kiev with cous-cous and roasted brocolli.
Oh right. Wrong forum. Sorry.

P.S. I don't know a pot chuck either.

P.P.S. Nice try Jim.  ;D
Title: Re: Zee's Shop Beginnings
Post by: Tin Falcon on January 31, 2017, 12:40:25 AM
Quote
I know............I know!! It's Pot Roast made with Chuck Roast!  :LickLips: Did I get it right!   :naughty:
Yes and NO . if you google pot chuck it directs you to pot chuck roast very tasty but no good for holding parts in the lathe. the below photo is what marv is referring to a handy tool to have

(http://sherline.com/Wordpress/wp-content/uploads/2015/07/2100_pic-468x351.jpg)
these are similar to step chucks  a well used pot chuck can be turned into a step chuck . A new one can be used that way as well but nice to be able to use for small diameters as well.   These are designed to machine to size more or less expendable tooling.
Title: Re: Zee's Shop Beginnings
Post by: crueby on January 31, 2017, 12:42:49 AM
Thanks Tin! I have seen those, just not by that name.



At least I didn't ask about a Henway.
Title: Re: Zee's Shop Beginnings
Post by: Tin Falcon on January 31, 2017, 12:46:47 AM
4- 5 pounds LOL
A Greek Urn 15 per hour US
any other questions.
Title: Re: Zee's Shop Beginnings
Post by: gerritv on January 31, 2017, 01:09:54 AM
As tasty as potchuck sounds, we are actually talking about this: http://modelenginenews.org/techniques/potc.html

Gerrit

I made Oseng Oseng, Sambal Goreng Cauliflower and rice with Kroepoek on the side. It was Indonesian night.
Title: Re: Zee's Shop Beginnings
Post by: Jo on January 31, 2017, 07:17:55 AM
Yes those are pot chucks. Both Don and I made them a little deeper when we made out Universal Pillar Tools ball handles. Those looked like little top hats with one wide slot to take the handle while the balls were held in the cup and two fractional slots to give a little more flexibility.

With very thin bits I normally use a superglue chuck  :D Of course I normally use 5Cs which are very good at holding short flanges ( e.g. <1mm) so I don't need thin piece chucks once they have a machined piece to hold on ;)

Jo
Title: Re: Zee's Shop Beginnings
Post by: mklotz on January 31, 2017, 03:03:51 PM
Marv, what is a pot chuck? I haven't heard that term before.

It was a 60's thing.  You had to be there to dig it. :-)

OK, seriously, the pictures Tin showed describe one form of it.  His version can be grasped in any chuck, including a collet chuck.  The reason I mentioned it in connection with a collet chuck is that the type I have has a 5C collet body rather than the cylindrical gripping extension.

To use them, you insert the stabilizing pin in the center so the jaws don't collapse when you pull the collet in, then machine a shallow depression of the diameter of the part into the face.  Remove the pin and loosen the collet.  It will expand enough to allow insertion of the part in the depression.  Reinstall the collet and, when tightened, the part will be held firmly and concentrically.

Obviously, pot chucks are a consumable item.  You can only cut so many depressions before the working volume is gone.  As a hobbyist though, you'll find that you use them so infrequently that they last a long time.

Cheapskates like me make their own along the lines of Tin's images.  I use a hose clamp around the circumference of the clamping volume to close the sectors down on the part.

For one-offs a superglue chuck or a watchmaker style pitch chuck can accomplish the same thing but, if you're making duplicates a pot chuck is a real asset.
Title: Re: Zee's Shop Beginnings
Post by: crueby on January 31, 2017, 06:05:37 PM
Thanks for the tips guys! There are a couple of parts coming up on my build where they will come in handy.
Title: Re: Zee's Shop Beginnings
Post by: zeeprogrammer on January 31, 2017, 10:20:38 PM
Blast you Jim. You got me thinking on those PM lathes.

I came across the PM1022V. Looks enticing.

The G0752 10x22 that I was noodling on is $1795 with freight of $109 all the way from Springfield, MO.
The PM1022V 10x22 is $1899 plus $199 freight and $49 for lift-gate. A bit more...($150-ish) but...
The PM has power cross feed, QC tool post included, and a slightly lower speed. I'm thinking wow.
They're in Pittsburgh, less than 5 hours away. Might be able to save on freight at expense of gas, but I wouldn't have to worry about freight damage.
For $100 more I can get the 10x30 (not that I would ever need it).
110V which I would prefer.

That would seem to give me everything I want but I'm still trying to understand collet chucks.

What do you think?

So some questions...

I'm thinking I want a 5C. I can use the same collets in the spindexer no? And the square and hex holders no?
Why would I consider other collet types? There are various and numerous. I don't understand the differences really except that a single collet in one type allow a small range of material while the 5C needs to be near spot on. No?

And then the more troubling issue is attaching a collet chuck. It sounds like I would need to get/make a backing plate.
If it has to be threaded then I'm in a bit of trouble as I don't have that skill yet (if ever).

PM says the spindle is MT4 internal taper, 1" bore, and direct mount. Does direct mount mean bolted?

Thanks all. Pile in please.

And blast you Jim.
Title: Re: Zee's Shop Beginnings
Post by: crueby on January 31, 2017, 10:41:10 PM
I don't know about the lathe, but the 5C collets themselves are interchangeable between the different holders/spinners. I have a set with the hex/square holders, work great with those.

For the lathe maker that is close to you, can you go look at one and get some hands-on with it to see what its like in person? Thats always a useful thing.

Other than that, I'm ducking out of the way before the pile-on lands...!
Title: Re: Zee's Shop Beginnings
Post by: Flyboy Jim on January 31, 2017, 10:44:01 PM
Blast you Jim. You got me thinking on those PM lathes.

I came across the PM1022V. Looks enticing.

And blast you Jim.

Always happy to help out where I can!  :lolb: :ROFL: :LittleDevil:

Jim
Title: Re: Zee's Shop Beginnings
Post by: crueby on January 31, 2017, 10:47:51 PM
Blast you Jim. You got me thinking on those PM lathes.

I came across the PM1022V. Looks enticing.

And blast you Jim.

Always happy to help out where I can!  :lolb: :ROFL: :LittleDevil:

Jim
Its fun to help spend someone elses money, isnt it!   :LittleDevil:
Title: Re: Zee's Shop Beginnings
Post by: 10KPete on January 31, 2017, 10:54:19 PM
Carl, I have been staying out of this fracus but now I have to pitch in:

Go with the 5C collets. They are standard the world over and fit damn near everything of any size.

For the extra $100 you will never be sorry. Take it from a guy who's spent a lot of time in front of a lathe. If you have a 10" lathe you'll need to turn an 11" part. You'll always need a bigger lathe. You can't predict what you will want to do...

The powered cross feed is a standard feature for any lathe I would own. Wouldn't do without it.

You WILL use the slower speed!! If for nothing else, threading. Yeah I know you don't know if you will do any. But believe me, once you have the capability you will use it and then wonder how you ever lived without it.

Same for the longer bed. You WILL use it someday. It's a real enhancement for little money.

Yeah it all adds up but you'll have a machine that won't stop you.

Oh, and make sure the 10" machine has at least 1/2 hp motor.

Now I need to go and bake some mint chocolate cookies for Chris. I'll let him tell you why!

Pete
Title: Re: Zee's Shop Beginnings
Post by: Flyboy Jim on January 31, 2017, 10:55:30 PM
Blast you Jim. You got me thinking on those PM lathes.

I came across the PM1022V. Looks enticing.

And blast you Jim.

Always happy to help out where I can!  :lolb: :ROFL: :LittleDevil:

Jim
Its fun to help spend someone elses money, isnt it!   :LittleDevil:

I know. You all have help me spend a lot of mine.  :shrug:

Jim

PS: Zee........why don't you give Matt a call at Precision Matthews and tell him what you want to do and get his input. He has a reputation for being pretty helpful that way.

PSS: Being able to go get it yourself would be great! It'd save on the usual shipping damage.
Title: Re: Zee's Shop Beginnings
Post by: mklotz on January 31, 2017, 11:08:23 PM
5Cs are widely available, come in all sorts of varieties including hex and square and specials (like pot chucks, expanding and emergency collets) and are easy to find used.  They come in round sizes from 1/16 to 1-1/8.

A 1" spindle bore seems a bit small to me but I guess these are smaller lathes than I have.  If you decide on a drawbar type collet chuck, ensure that the spindle bore can swallow the required drawbar.

You're going to have to learn to thread at some point.  Don't disregard that requirement in deciding on a lathe.

Do these lathes use (spit) change gears?  If so, you'll be sorry.  Get a QC box if at all possible.

Don't size the lathe by the engine projects you think now you'll want to make.  Size it by the tool projects you may want/need to make to feed your ever broadening field of engine modeling.  The lathe should be able to make all the lathe and mill accessories you've seen people building on this and other model engineering fora.

Nur meine Gedanken.
Title: Re: Zee's Shop Beginnings
Post by: crueby on January 31, 2017, 11:14:25 PM
Carl, I have been staying out of this fracus but now I have to pitch in:

Go with the 5C collets. They are standard the world over and fit damn near everything of any size.

For the extra $100 you will never be sorry. Take it from a guy who's spent a lot of time in front of a lathe. If you have a 10" lathe you'll need to turn an 11" part. You'll always need a bigger lathe. You can't predict what you will want to do...

The powered cross feed is a standard feature for any lathe I would own. Wouldn't do without it.

You WILL use the slower speed!! If for nothing else, threading. Yeah I know you don't know if you will do any. But believe me, once you have the capability you will use it and then wonder how you ever lived without it.

Same for the longer bed. You WILL use it someday. It's a real enhancement for little money.

Yeah it all adds up but you'll have a machine that won't stop you.

Oh, and make sure the 10" machine has at least 1/2 hp motor.

Now I need to go and bake some mint chocolate cookies for Chris. I'll let him tell you why!

Pete

Oooh! Cookies!  I thought I owed you some more of them for helping fix that lathe chuck! Though it will be good to see how the recipe translated to the other coast...
 :cheers:
Title: Re: Zee's Shop Beginnings
Post by: zeeprogrammer on January 31, 2017, 11:30:51 PM
Carl, I have been staying out of this fracus but now I have to pitch in:

What do you mean 'have to'?  ;D What fracas? Do you mean alternative-fracas?  :lolb:

Thanks Pete. This was helpful. A number of your posts have been.

@Jim...yeah the plan is to contact PM. I've come across a lot of reading that says they're very supportive. I think they can answer many of my questions. (That way I can make sure you guys are right.  ;D )

@Marv...I always look for your Gedanken. The spindle bore will probably always be too small but my mini-lathe is .79" and I haven't had an issue yet. Probably too few projects though. Regarding threading...I've actually done some! Yes. Yes I have.

@Pete...notice what Chris said. He 'owes' you cookies. He didn't say you'll 'get' the cookies. You'll never get them.  ;D

Yeah I'm thinking the only question is how to get a 5C collet chuck onto the lateh. PM may have some answers.
It seems it's harder to find a solution for smaller lathes than larger lathes. But my desire for a 5C collet chuck doesn't justify going even bigger on the lathe.

This isn't/won't be my only hobby. Got to find a balance somewhere.
Title: Re: Zee's Shop Beginnings
Post by: mklotz on January 31, 2017, 11:38:44 PM
This isn't/won't be my only hobby. Got to find a balance somewhere.

As you near (or pass) your nominal three score and ten, you'll learn that self-gratification is a hell of a lot more important than balance.
Title: Re: Zee's Shop Beginnings
Post by: steamer on February 01, 2017, 12:14:50 AM
Coming along nicely Carl!    Can't wait to see some chips on the floor!...

Dave
Title: Re: Zee's Shop Beginnings
Post by: Flyboy Jim on February 01, 2017, 12:22:47 AM
This isn't/won't be my only hobby. Got to find a balance somewhere.

As you near (or pass) your nominal three score and ten, you'll learn that self-gratification is a hell of a lot more important than balance.

Marv,

Having just turned 3 score and 10 last summer, I'm in total agreement with you!  :ThumbsUp:

Also, what you said dovetails right in with one of my favorite saying's which is "Anything worth doing is worth overdoing!"

And then there's what my dad used to tell me: "If you can't afford to do big things, do small things in a big way". So instead of buying a drag racer, I buy any machine shop (and other) tooling that I want!
 
Jim

Title: Re: Zee's Shop Beginnings
Post by: b.lindsey on February 01, 2017, 12:33:13 AM
A good philosophy!!  I whole-heartedly agree :)

Bill
Title: Re: Zee's Shop Beginnings
Post by: 10KPete on February 01, 2017, 12:38:55 AM
Zee, Chris sent me some mint CC cookies when he sent the chuck... yummmmm!! Now I'll send him some with the chuck so he can see if I got the recipe right.... :slap:

JIm, I like what your Dad said...

I'm just doing what ever the budget and body will allow. The heck with all this fill oss oo fee!

Pete
Title: Re: Zee's Shop Beginnings
Post by: crueby on February 01, 2017, 02:03:42 AM
Zee, Chris sent me some mint CC cookies when he sent the chuck... yummmmm!! Now I'll send him some with the chuck so he can see if I got the recipe right.... :slap:

JIm, I like what your Dad said...

I'm just doing what ever the budget and body will allow. The heck with all this fill oss oo fee!

Pete


Zee, if you missed it while you were off the grid, the recipe is back a ways in my lombard thread. Guaranteed to convert shop gnomes to shop elves!
Title: Re: Zee's Shop Beginnings
Post by: zeeprogrammer on February 01, 2017, 02:41:24 AM
As you near (or pass) your nominal three score and ten, you'll learn that self-gratification is a hell of a lot more important than balance.

Yes...and...no. How's that for balance?  ;D

Approaching 3 score and 4.

@Jim...what I remember my Dad always telling me..."If you wish in one hand and crap in the other...what do you get?"
So I always made sure to continue doing the one thing.

@Pete...I'm thinking there's more to the story. Chris was supposed to send me cookies and I never got them. So how'd you get them? What part of your soul did you sell?

I'm suffering Deja Vu. This thread seems to be like all my other threads.  :Lol: But I'm not complaining if no one else is.

Up to now I've talked about getting 'yanked out of my hole' by family. Now that I'm going to be on the same floor level...I need a new phrase. Well maybe not. I'm always in a hole. I guess it's still apropos.  :(
Title: Re: Zee's Shop Beginnings
Post by: crueby on February 01, 2017, 03:04:06 AM
Hard to send you cookies without you sending the address!  :facepalm:   I have a bunch in the freezer, ready to go!


And I recall you were going to stop by here on a trip going past... That next trip never apparently happened.   :'(


As for no longer being yanked out of a hole, that's good, as long as they don't call you a hole...   :o


 :cheers:

Title: Re: Zee's Shop Beginnings
Post by: Flyboy Jim on February 01, 2017, 03:04:19 AM

Up to now I've talked about getting 'yanked out of my hole' by family. Now that I'm going to be on the same floor level...I need a new phrase. Well maybe not. I'm always in a hole. I guess it's still apropos.  :(

You're going to be way in the "hole" (monetarily) if we all have our way!  :LittleDevil:

Jim
Title: Re: Zee's Shop Beginnings
Post by: Flyboy Jim on February 01, 2017, 03:09:07 AM
Hard to send you cookies without you sending the address!  :facepalm:   I have a bunch in the freezer, ready to go!

 :cheers:

I just PM'd you my address Chris. You can send them to me!  :naughty:

Jim
Title: Re: Zee's Shop Beginnings
Post by: 10KPete on February 01, 2017, 03:10:20 AM
Zee, please stay out of holes. Physical and, very importantly, mental. I can testify that the last can be traumatic!!   :'(

 :cheers:

Pete
Title: Re: Zee's Shop Beginnings
Post by: crueby on February 01, 2017, 03:11:42 AM
Hard to send you cookies without you sending the address!  :facepalm:   I have a bunch in the freezer, ready to go!

 :cheers:

I just PM'd you my address Chris. You can send them to me!  :naughty:

Jim
Zee, your picture changed, and you learned to fly!!

 :stir:

Better jump in before they are all gone!
Title: Re: Zee's Shop Beginnings
Post by: 10KPete on February 01, 2017, 03:13:14 AM
Has anyone else noticed how much more entertaining threads are when Zee is here??? He seems to bring out the 'peak' of us all. I think it's a great thing to be associated with a group as good as this one.

Thanks,
Pete
Title: Re: Zee's Shop Beginnings
Post by: crueby on February 01, 2017, 03:15:27 AM
Has anyone else noticed how much more entertaining threads are when Zee is here??? He seems to bring out the 'peak' of us all. I think it's a great thing to be associated with a group as good as this one.

Thanks,
Pete
Its so nice to have our mascot back! 
Title: Re: Zee's Shop Beginnings
Post by: zeeprogrammer on February 01, 2017, 11:20:33 AM
 :facepalm2:

Has anyone else noticed how much more entertaining threads are when Zee is here??? He seems to bring out the 'peak' of us all. I think it's a great thing to be associated with a group as good as this one.
Its so nice to have our mascot back! 

As they say, "If I can't make an engine...bring donuts."
I recall saying in the past...This is not my fault. You all make it happen.

"recall saying in the past"? Is there another time?

So I watched a video last night of a fellow installing a stand and same/similar lathe as the PM.
How necessary is it to bolt the stand down? Good idea no doubt...but necessary?

To get the lathe and mill installed I'm thinking of using a 1 ton HF foldable shop crane.
Any thoughts? The equipment is on the order of 300 to 450 pounds.

Thanks

Title: Re: Zee's Shop Beginnings
Post by: Niels Abildgaard on February 01, 2017, 12:05:51 PM

So I watched a video last night of a fellow installing a stand and same/similar lathe as the PM.
How necessary is it to bolt the stand down? Good idea no doubt...but necessary?

To get the lathe and mill installed I'm thinking of using a 1 ton HF foldable shop crane.
Any thoughts? The equipment is on the order of 300 to 450 pounds.

Thanks

Your first question is wrong.
The stand is not nessecary.
Every lathe improves being fixed solidly to a piece of material that does not change with temperature or humidity and has a lot of internal damping.
Wood or tinplate do not quallify.
Cast a piece of concrete 3-400 kg with prearranged bolt holes.Use the very nessecary folding crane and place concrete slab where convinient.Put lathe on and shim one of the corners to make lathe behave

(http://i.imgur.com/NnYmuk9.jpg)
Title: Re: Zee's Shop Beginnings
Post by: b.lindsey on February 01, 2017, 12:13:42 PM
Zee, as for capacity, the shop crane should be more than sufficient and the fact that it can fold up is very handy too as its not something you will use daily and unfolded they take up a lot of room. The one thing you may want to look at though it the width between supports of your workbench and the clearance under it.  You don't want to have to extend the arm of the crane out any farther than you have to, and if the legs happen to butt up to the bottom skirt of the workbench (as opposed to having clearance to go underneath it) then you will still have some manhandling to do.

Bill
Title: Re: Zee's Shop Beginnings
Post by: Jasonb on February 01, 2017, 12:20:11 PM
Zee I just hired a crane for the day from a local tool hire shop, don't have the need for one often so did not want to buy and store it. If you do hire or buy one check the lifting capacity at full extension, a lot quote the max capacity when the jib is in and you may not get enough reach.

My lathe seems to works OK on its metal stand which is similar to what would be supplied with yours. My stand is not bolted to the wooden floor, lathe just bolted to the metal stand without any shimming or additional leveling work.

J
Title: Re: Zee's Shop Beginnings
Post by: zeeprogrammer on February 01, 2017, 12:22:58 PM
@Niels. Thanks. I've not seen such a setup and it seems a bit overkill for me. I understand the improvement it would give but I doubt I'd ever notice the difference in the things I would make. It does raise another question for me. I am waffling between a pre-built stand compatible with the lathe or building a wooden bench. I'm leaning towards the stand as it wouldn't be much more cost, is easy, and may provide better storage than what I could build. Hence the question as to whether it should be bolted to the floor.

@Bill. Thanks. Regarding the supports that's in part why I'm thinking of the pedestal stand where you can get a crane leg under it.

@Jason. Thanks. Just saw your post. That helps.

Thanks all everyone. So good to be able to count on help here.

I must avoid manhandling. Knees aren't that good, back is weak, and it's not the kind of 'handling' I do.  ;D
Title: Re: Zee's Shop Beginnings
Post by: Tennessee Whiskey on February 01, 2017, 12:43:09 PM
While you're shopping, check out these guys. Great customer service.

http://www.dropros.com/DRO_PROS_Weiss_Mills.htm
http://www.dropros.com/DRO_PROS_Weiss_Lathes.htm

Cletus
Title: Re: Zee's Shop Beginnings
Post by: Jo on February 01, 2017, 01:12:38 PM
I must avoid manhandling. Knees aren't that good, back is weak, and it's not the kind of 'handling' I do.  ;D

I find it is best to avoid manhandling ::)

Jo

P.S. One of these days I might get my hands on one that is worth handling   :naughty:
Title: Re: Zee's Shop Beginnings
Post by: zeeprogrammer on February 01, 2017, 05:30:42 PM
Cletus...they look just like the machines from PM.
And while looking at PM, I looked at their mills too. Their PM25V is similar in features to the Grizzly 704/759.
I'd just have to add a 2 axis DRO for X/Y.

Hm....again, just 5 hours away. I might just take a trip if they allow visitors.

PM talks about including a quill DRO. I believe that means it's not on the head. Lock the head then use the knob to micro-adjust?

So exciting.

I find it is best to avoid manhandling ::)
P.S. One of these days I might get my hands on one that is worth handling   :naughty:

Curry, wine, and then that. The temptation is so great, I may put in for a transfer to the UK.  :naughty:
Title: Re: Zee's Shop Beginnings
Post by: Tennessee Whiskey on February 01, 2017, 06:10:43 PM
Son, get your mind focused, see how them women lead you astray. We're talking machines here and she's got your mind on curry, wine, and man handling, get a grip boy  :lolb: :lolb:. Zee, I suspect that 99.44% of these machines are all the same. It's the customer service, paint scheme, and goodies included in the "buy from me" initial sales pitch that makes the difference. That's another point; don't be bashful about calling a distributor and saying "so and so offers this, what's your best shot" Look and see if Jet has anything that tickles your fancy; I gots connections here in Nashville. Bison burgers with horseradish cheese and hand cut fries tonight. Going to see Pops and Ted's Montana Grill( Ted Turner, largest Bison producer in the country)  is 4 blocks away. The Bison pot roast and veggies are stupid good  :old: 8).

Cletus



Title: Re: Zee's Shop Beginnings
Post by: mklotz on February 01, 2017, 06:28:48 PM
Here's an example of a homemade pot chuck...

(http://i81.photobucket.com/albums/j234/mklotz/tools/POT_CHUCK_zpsyhllyvja.jpg) (http://s81.photobucket.com/user/mklotz/media/tools/POT_CHUCK_zpsyhllyvja.jpg.html)

Hobbyists won't have occasion to use one often so making one may be more cost effective than buying one.
Title: Re: Zee's Shop Beginnings
Post by: zeeprogrammer on February 01, 2017, 10:47:34 PM
Son, get your mind focused, see how them women lead you astray. We're talking machines here and she's got your mind on curry, wine, and man handling, get a grip boy 

Let's see...machines or women...women or machines... :thinking:

I can't understand why it's one or the other.

@Neils...You added the picture later? I understand now what you were saying.

@Marv...I don't quite understand. I see a (large diameter) recess and then what looks like another (smaller diameter) recess around the part being held. Is there a reason for that?

Title: Re: Zee's Shop Beginnings
Post by: Tennessee Whiskey on February 01, 2017, 11:31:01 PM
OMG, T has you whipped worse than I thought. Women or Machines, at our age, are you serious  :lolb: :lolb:

Cletus
Title: Re: Zee's Shop Beginnings
Post by: Tennessee Whiskey on February 01, 2017, 11:36:42 PM
And while you're at it big boy, we need tonight's dinner menu by jiggy

Cletus
Title: Re: Zee's Shop Beginnings
Post by: zeeprogrammer on February 01, 2017, 11:48:50 PM
OMG, T has you whipped worse than I thought.

Never understood that either. Something wrong with that? You do understand the benefits right?

During remodeling it will be lots of leftovers.

Tonight it's either lamb stew or chicken Kiev. I suspect chicken Kiev. And I just heard..."dinner's ready".

So bye.
Title: Re: Zee's Shop Beginnings
Post by: zeeprogrammer on February 02, 2017, 02:14:07 AM
And I recall you were going to stop by here on a trip going past... That next trip never apparently happened.   :'(

No, next trip didn't happen. It may still. And if so, I will be by.
Don't tell the elves. I have the feeling they don't like me.

Have no expectations. I will not be bearing gifts.  ;D
Title: Re: Zee's Shop Beginnings
Post by: Niels Abildgaard on February 02, 2017, 08:45:21 AM

@Neils...You added the picture later? I understand now what you were saying.


Picture and video from a rock-solid lathe

(http://i.imgur.com/WvKsXOd.jpg)

DeFLeNPhqDY
It has made quite a difference this granite thing
Title: Re: Zee's Shop Beginnings
Post by: zeeprogrammer on February 02, 2017, 11:24:35 AM
Supposedly they break through the rear walls today.
Monday they pour concrete into the old garage for the floor. They were going to frame it but the old garage foundation is too out of kilter.
Electrical walk-through on Monday too.

There will be two windows on this side of the garage.
Shop is to the rear. No windows on this side (nothing to see).

I had wanted a two door garage but a single door makes it easier to get in and out. Particularly since I now drive a pick-up.

(http://i605.photobucket.com/albums/tt139/zeeprogrammer/Remodel/garage1_zps9aepn0b6.png) (http://s605.photobucket.com/user/zeeprogrammer/media/Remodel/garage1_zps9aepn0b6.png.html)
Title: Re: Zee's Shop Beginnings
Post by: Tennessee Whiskey on February 02, 2017, 11:41:08 AM
Looking good Zee. I'm sure it helps not having a blanket of white stuff on the ground. Pick-up eh: definitely gonna have to get you some bib overalls :mischief:

Cletus
Title: Re: Zee's Shop Beginnings
Post by: zeeprogrammer on February 02, 2017, 12:12:34 PM
Pick-up eh: definitely gonna have to get you some bib overalls :mischief:

You can take the boy out of the Ozarks but you can't take the Ozarks out of the boy.
Title: Re: Zee's Shop Beginnings
Post by: b.lindsey on February 02, 2017, 12:23:41 PM
Zee, can you do something like a floorplan, I am easily confused. I though the new shop area already had the floor poured. And isn't there a new addition across the back of the house as well? Just a simple sketch of what existed and what is new will help my simple mind :)

Bill
Title: Re: Zee's Shop Beginnings
Post by: crueby on February 02, 2017, 12:52:19 PM
Pick-up eh: definitely gonna have to get you some bib overalls :mischief:

You can take the boy out of the Ozarks but you can't take the Ozarks out of the boy.
The double wide garage door also makes it easier for the shop elves to do the four wheel drift into the garage with your truck...
It's looking great - is there a room above the garage too? Or is that for bar stock storage?
Title: Re: Zee's Shop Beginnings
Post by: mklotz on February 02, 2017, 02:48:38 PM
@Marv...I don't quite understand. I see a (large diameter) recess and then what looks like another (smaller diameter) recess around the part being held. Is there a reason for that?

There's a more complete write-up of the tool here...

http://www.homemadetools.net/forum/pot-chuck-57464#post85643

The pin in the center is not the workpiece.  It is used to load the jaws while the depression for the part is trepanned into the (consumable) chuck.  After machining it is removed, the part is inserted and the hose clamp is tightened to grip the part.  Then the whole unit is placed in the lathe chuck.

The business end of a 5C collet pot chuck looks very similar but has the 5C body behind it so it will fit directly into a collet chuck.
Title: Re: Zee's Shop Beginnings
Post by: Doc on February 02, 2017, 03:49:17 PM
Supposedly they break through the rear walls today.
Monday they pour concrete into the old garage for the floor. They were going to frame it but the old garage foundation is too out of kilter.
Electrical walk-through on Monday too.

There will be two windows on this side of the garage.
Shop is to the rear. No windows on this side (nothing to see).

I had wanted a two door garage but a single door makes it easier to get in and out. Particularly since I now drive a pick-up.

(http://i605.photobucket.com/albums/tt139/zeeprogrammer/Remodel/garage1_zps9aepn0b6.png) (http://s605.photobucket.com/user/zeeprogrammer/media/Remodel/garage1_zps9aepn0b6.png.html)



Carl that is going to be nice!!
Title: Re: Zee's Shop Beginnings
Post by: zeeprogrammer on February 02, 2017, 05:18:31 PM
@Bill...I do have drawings. I'll try and get them posted tonight. Certainly by this weekend.

@Chris...no room in attic. Originally was to be storage for stuff/crap but builder forgot and the joists are not strong enough. Not a problem. Don't really need the storage (he said).

Because we want to retire and live in this house for as long as possible, we made sure the new floor (workshop, utility, sun porch, and converted old garage) are all on the same level. We couldn't do (or afford) to raise all that up to the same level as the kitchen, living, and dining. It's two steps. But we're putting in posts so people have something to hold onto as they take the steps. If I have to in future, a little platform that goes up/down for wheelchairs can be installed.

Because of all that, the ceiling in the workshop is 9' instead of the usual 8'. Nice but makes taking use of ceiling more problematic.

@Marv. Thanks. That helped.

@Doc. Thanks!
Title: Re: Zee's Shop Beginnings
Post by: mklotz on February 02, 2017, 05:41:38 PM
Let me see if I understand this.  Your renovation plans take into account the fact that you may stay there until you reach an age where negotiating steps may be problematic but you're retiring in an area where you can get snowed in during the winter?  Do I have that right?
Title: Re: Zee's Shop Beginnings
Post by: crueby on February 02, 2017, 05:56:36 PM
Let me see if I understand this.  Your renovation plans take into account the fact that you may stay there until you reach an age where negotiating steps may be problematic but you're retiring in an area where you can get snowed in during the winter?  Do I have that right?


Thats why guys with plows on thier pickup trucks make money in this part of the world...
Title: Re: Zee's Shop Beginnings
Post by: zeeprogrammer on February 02, 2017, 06:13:01 PM
Let me see if I understand this.  Your renovation plans take into account the fact that you may stay there until you reach an age where negotiating steps may be problematic but you're retiring in an area where you can get snowed in during the winter?  Do I have that right?

Exactly right.  ;D
I'll be retired. Why would I need to go anywhere?

And not to be insensitive to T...no worry about "Hey let's go out somewhere." ;D
Title: Re: Zee's Shop Beginnings
Post by: zeeprogrammer on February 02, 2017, 10:19:28 PM
Looking at the original, top left corner and going clockwise...

Family Room
Kitchen
Dining
Living
Foyer
Garage
Laundry (with Powder Room at other end)

Looking at the modified...

Family Room kicked out about 4'
Dining and Kitchen kicked out 8' (now dining, kitchen, family have same wall)
Sun porch added to Family Room
Left of Family Room is new Utility Room
Left of Utility Room is Workshop
Left of old garage is new garage
Old garage has a new bathroom in top right corner and a closet below that.

I can't see the attachments from the preview so let's go see if that worked.
Title: Re: Zee's Shop Beginnings
Post by: zeeprogrammer on February 02, 2017, 10:26:13 PM
That worked.

The kitchen, dining, living, and foyer have 8' ceilings, all on same level.
All the rest have 9' ceilings and same level. 1' foot below the above.
See how easy it will be to go from garage to workshop?  ;D

Now look at the utility room. On the top is a closet. Next to that will be the washer/dryer with 220V.
My question is...where to put the 220V for the workshop?
I'm thinking the most likely use for 220V is an air compressor. Where would you put it?
I'm thinking in the garage on the other side of the workshop.

Just to remind people, while our plan is make this livable for ourselves as long as we can, part of the reason for the new bedroom and floors is the possibility of our folks coming to live with or even possibly our very good friend.

I doubt either of our parents will move here but their decision not to will become more difficult for them when one spouse passes on.

My parents in particular. We have few relatives. Just my sister back home and she has no children. So I'm trying to make the case that they should move here and enjoy their grand-daughters and great-grand-daughter.

T's parents likely won't in any case. They have several children close by.

Sorry to be a bit personal.  But yes, I'm a bit proud of what we're doing and why.
Title: Re: Zee's Shop Beginnings
Post by: PStechPaul on February 02, 2017, 11:09:07 PM
Those are some really major modifications! Seems like almost everything changed to some extent. You probably could have built another entire house for the same amount of effort. Of course zoning restrictions might not allow that. It does seem a shame to have all that unusable space under the roof of the garage. I can understand the joists not being strong enough for living space or heavy storage, but maybe it could be used for a model train layout?
Title: Re: Zee's Shop Beginnings
Post by: zeeprogrammer on February 02, 2017, 11:17:18 PM
I can understand the joists not being strong enough for living space or heavy storage, but maybe it could be used for a model train layout?

It would be cool. But the knees wouldn't like it.

But speaking of a model train layout...hee hee hee.

Let's remember I'm moving out of the basement. Who knows what I'll do with that.  ;D

 :( Probably nothing. Darn knees.

But I am wondering about a corner of the shop.

Eggs and bacon tonight. I was hoping for hot dogs. Today called for some soul food.
Title: Re: Zee's Shop Beginnings
Post by: Flyboy Jim on February 02, 2017, 11:26:15 PM
That looks good Zee.

The only thing I would do, if it was my place, which it isn't, would be to put a double door from the garage into the workshop. That would accomplish two things. It would make it easy to move equipment and materials from the garage into the workshop and it would give you the option to open the doors and use the garage as extra workspace, if needed, for some project. The wall space is still useable, if you have things there that are easily moved, when you want to open the doors. I've done that for two different shops now and it really comes in handy.

Good spot for the air compressor. I'd run a dedicated 220V circuit for it if possible. Then I'd also run a dedicated 220V circuit to a box somewhere in the shop. From there I'd just pull power, if needed sometime, and run it in conduit along the outside of the wall. Again that's what I did in my shop. I don't know what your power situation is, but a lot of time a large breaker installed in the main box can supply power to a smaller box that can then supply the needed circuits.

Anyway, thanks for posting the floor plan.

Jim
Title: Re: Zee's Shop Beginnings
Post by: zeeprogrammer on February 02, 2017, 11:44:48 PM
The only thing I would do, if it was my place, which it isn't, would be to put a double door from the garage into the workshop.

Originally I wanted a 36" door from the workshop into the garage. Didn't need double door as I can't imagine anything so big needing to get through. But I ran into zoning issues. Not that it couldn't be done really...but I didn't need the extra costs and hassles.

But the garage, utility room, and workshop are all on the same level. And all entries are 36" wide minimum. So moving things into the shop (or out) is not that difficult.

Something I didn't mention with the pics of layout...

There's a deck to the right of the sun porch going across the kitchen to the dining room.
I'll be able to walk straight out to a grill.

Unfortunately this means many steps to pool. But from utility room I can build a ramp to get to the pool when taking steps for ourselves or parents becomes too hard.

I also forgot to mention...the dining room will not be a dining room. It will be T's office and the dining room is moving to the old living room. We hardly use the living room. And by giving T her own office/workshop/studio...well you get my drift...it reduces the issue of my being the only one with a sanctuary.

Did I mention...my philosophy is about removing any/all support for a complaint. 41 years of excellent marriage is testament to my success.

So far.  ;D

And I know I'm fooling myself. If she saw this post...it would start with "Are you kidding? Really?".

Yeah. It sounds like I'm the one managing things. But it ain't so.
Title: Re: Zee's Shop Beginnings
Post by: Flyboy Jim on February 03, 2017, 12:28:49 AM
The only thing I would do, if it was my place, which it isn't, would be to put a double door from the garage into the workshop.

Originally I wanted a 36" door from the workshop into the garage. Didn't need double door as I can't imagine anything so big needing to get through. But I ran into zoning issues. Not that it couldn't be done really...but I didn't need the extra costs and hassles.

But the garage, utility room, and workshop are all on the same level. And all entries are 36" wide minimum. So moving things into the shop (or out) is not that difficult.

Something I didn't mention with the pics of layout...

There's a deck to the right of the sun porch going across the kitchen to the dining room.
I'll be able to walk straight out to a grill.

Unfortunately this means many steps to pool. But from utility room I can build a ramp to get to the pool when taking steps for ourselves or parents becomes too hard.

I also forgot to mention...the dining room will not be a dining room. It will be T's office and the dining room is moving to the old living room. We hardly use the living room. And by giving T her own office/workshop/studio...well you get my drift...it reduces the issue of my being the only one with a sanctuary.

Did I mention...my philosophy is about removing any/all support for a complaint. 41 years of excellent marriage is testament to my success.

So far.  ;D

And I know I'm fooling myself. If she saw this post...it would start with "Are you kidding? Really?".

Yeah. It sounds like I'm the one managing things. But it ain't so.

Grill................deck..............pool...............wife's a good cook..............you may have some of us members living there, before your parents get the chance!  :lolb:

Your last line reminds me of what Woody Allem wrote one time: "I'm the boss in our house..........my wife just the decision maker"!  :ROFL:

Jim

Title: Re: Zee's Shop Beginnings
Post by: b.lindsey on February 03, 2017, 12:56:00 AM
Thanks Zee, that clarifies things a lot!!  That looks like a great floorplan and a lot of good livable space in addition to the new shop. Perfect for the upcoming retirement years.

Bill
Title: Re: Zee's Shop Beginnings
Post by: zeeprogrammer on February 03, 2017, 01:36:08 AM
Thanks all.

We've worked hard to get here. Got a little story....

After we were married we moved to Illinois. I was going to go to photography school and we needed to get residency to afford tuition.
T always knew I should be an engineer.
At one point she said, why don't you apply for school aid and see what happens.
So I did.
Then she said, seems like you would enjoy engineering. Why not check it out.
So I did.

Just as well. I'm a lousy photographer.

That year we found $80 I'd tucked away into a glove during the move.
Up till then we had a bed on some metal frame and a couple of bean bags to sit on.
With that 80 bucks, I built a headboard for our bed, shelves, couch (using a cushion from some old RV), chair, coffee table, and ottoman.
Our first furniture.
Don't ask me why an ottoman. No idea.

Didn't do it all on my own. I was fortunate that T had her own career ideas.

So working and saving got us here.

Still have the coffee table. The kids are squabbling over who gets it when we're gone. They understand the meaning behind it.

@Jim. No. None of you will live here. Visits are fine...for a few of you.  :lolb:
Entrance fee may be a deterrent though.
Title: Re: Zee's Shop Beginnings
Post by: mklotz on February 03, 2017, 02:59:32 PM
Looks comfortable, Zee.

Have you thought about where you will place the air compressor?  The fact that you're considering a 220V unit suggests that it will be a big one and they can be very noisy.  Lots of folks exile them to a shed on the outside of the shop.

The other important use for 220 is a welder.  Not required for model engines, of course, but home repairs and shop structures, e.g., stock racks, presses, benders, etc..?
Title: Re: Zee's Shop Beginnings
Post by: Tennessee Whiskey on February 03, 2017, 08:56:07 PM
And, if not mistaken, anything using 220v is cheaper on the meter than 110v :thinking: :shrug:

Cletus
Title: Re: Zee's Shop Beginnings
Post by: zeeprogrammer on February 03, 2017, 11:00:18 PM
Have you thought about where you will place the air compressor?  The fact that you're considering a 220V unit suggests that it will be a big one and they can be very noisy.  Lots of folks exile them to a shed on the outside of the shop.

The other important use for 220 is a welder.  Not required for model engines, of course, but home repairs and shop structures, e.g., stock racks, presses, benders, etc..?

So far the thought is on the other side of the wall between the workshop and garage. i.e. in the garage. Outside wouldn't be bad but I think it would bother my near neighbor. I may enclose with move-able sound deadening walls.

I may have asked before...I don't need some monster air compressor. Something big enough for the blast cabinet should do.
Any suggestions as to size?

I don't see a welder in my future. Gotta have interest and there's nary any. But you never know when some bug bites.

@Cletus...makes sense for the dryer. Other usage would seem to small to make a significant difference. And so far...just the air comressor, if even that.

 :ThumbsUp: Roof tiles are up.
 :ThumbsUp: Back steel beam to hold the rear upper floor is in.
 :cussing: Got termites.

No structural damage but needs treating. That'll cost me another couple of weeks delay until retirement so I can pay it off.
Title: Re: Zee's Shop Beginnings
Post by: crueby on February 03, 2017, 11:22:48 PM
Termites?!


Thats what you get for living so far south in the hot zone. Well, at least farther south than me...
Title: Re: Zee's Shop Beginnings
Post by: zeeprogrammer on February 04, 2017, 01:13:23 AM
Termites?!
Thats what you get for living so far south in the hot zone. Well, at least farther south than me...

Termites vs shop elves. Tough decision?

I can kill termites with no compunction. How do you humanely get rid of shop elves?
Right. You're not trying. You keep feeding the elves. Because they do all the work.

All you do is make cookies.  :lolb:
Title: Re: Zee's Shop Beginnings
Post by: crueby on February 04, 2017, 01:18:40 AM
Termites?!
Thats what you get for living so far south in the hot zone. Well, at least farther south than me...

Termites vs shop elves. Tough decision?

I can kill termites with no compunction. How do you humanely get rid of shop elves?
Right. You're not trying. You keep feeding the elves. Because they do all the work.

All you do is make cookies.  :lolb:
Yeah.


So?


Your point?


 :shrug:
Title: Re: Zee's Shop Beginnings
Post by: zeeprogrammer on February 04, 2017, 01:05:37 PM
Termites?!
Thats what you get for living so far south in the hot zone. Well, at least farther south than me...

Termites vs shop elves. Tough decision?

I can kill termites with no compunction. How do you humanely get rid of shop elves?
Right. You're not trying. You keep feeding the elves. Because they do all the work.

All you do is make cookies.  :lolb:
Yeah.
So?
Your point?
 :shrug:

Well I was unfair and I'm glad you didn't point it out.  ;D
At least you're making cookies. I haven't made a thing in a year.  :'(
Title: Re: Zee's Shop Beginnings
Post by: Tennessee Whiskey on February 04, 2017, 01:17:54 PM
You made a mess in the yard  :lolb: :lolb:

Cletus
Title: Re: Zee's Shop Beginnings
Post by: jclouden on February 05, 2017, 08:58:05 PM
Zee,

I have followed this forum for the last 18 months but have not posted much because I felt that I have not had much to contribute.  I have however designed and built our retirement home and my retirement shop and went though many of the same issues that have been covered in this thread so I thought that I would chip in with some thoughts.

Electrical:
I was fortunate to be in no hurry so I did all of my own electrical work.  I installed a 230V, 60A subpanel for the shop and garage fed from my main panel.  All outlets in the shop are at 48" above the floor for easy access and are about 48" apart.  The outlets are fed from 3 separate breakers.  I installed 4ea. 220V outlets in the shop for a dust collector, jointer, planer and table saw and 1ea. 220V outlet in the garage for an air compressor.  You may not be planning on using any 220V equipment but having a small subpanel in the shop at least allows for future expansion.

Facilities:
I have a 36" door into the shop and it is big enough for all of the equipment that I have installed.  If you might possibly be considering some big equipment (Bridgeport mill?) in the future you might need more access.  Regarding an air compressor, I installed mine in the garage to cut down on the noise and ran piping into the shop to 3 outlets.  Rather than buy a crane I reinforced a mount in the ceiling beams that I hang a chain hoist from whenever I need to pick up equipment.  I have used it to set 600lb equipment on stands with no problem and I don't have to store a crane.

Equipment:
When I was looking at lathes I asked my retired machinist brother-in-law for his advice.  Among other things, he said not to buy a machine without power crossfeed.  All of my woodworking machines are Grizzly and I was assuming that I would stay with them for machine tools but they have no small lathes with power crossfeed.  Also, I like to pick up my machinery and Grizzly was closing down their east coast store (Muncy, PA).  My research led me to Precision Matthews in Pittsburg and their PM1022/1030.  I ended up with the PM1030V and I have been very satisfied with it.  I later bought their PM727M mill with power X feed and DRO and I really like it also.  While both of them are larger machines then I typically see on the forum, they handle all size work very well.  A bonus from my point of view is working with Matt and his willingness to  arrange for pick up in Pittsburg at my convenience.

I like to weld so I made stands for the lathe and mill with casters and levelers.  I hang the chain hoist from the ceiling mount, pick up the equipment, roll the stand under and lower the machine.  I roll the machine to its final location then lower the levelers to elevate the casters.  This has worked very well and all the equipment has been very stable.  I can always adjust the levelers up and move the equipment if necessary.

I currently use a 33 gal. 120V air compressor and it works OK for me.  I do not have a sand blaster however.

By the way, I noticed that you are from West Chester.  About 7 years ago I spent a great deal of time there designing and installing electronic systems in an estate being refurbished and added onto.  That is a very nice area.  I have since sold my business and retired.  Best of luck getting your home and shop finished.

Jon
Title: Re: Zee's Shop Beginnings
Post by: zeeprogrammer on February 05, 2017, 09:57:47 PM
Jon, thanks very much for chipping in.

Very timely too. We're planning the electrical now and the idea of having the outlets 48" above floor is an excellent idea. Thanks!

I had thought about using the ceiling for hoist help but it isn't to be. Somehow got communication mixed and the ceiling joists are not designed to take weight.
But that's okay. I can deal with it.

Very glad to hear your thoughts on the PM machines. Of everything I was looking at, leaning towards, I've been leaning the most to them.

I do like this area. A lot. We seem to be in a pocket (south of 30 and east of 202) that seems to have its own environment. You can get quite a bit of snow north of 30 or west of 202 and we don't get it. People complain of the cold, heat, humidity here but I remember living in Illinois and southern Missouri...and this is nothing. Most importantly though, I like the people, diversity, and access to all sorts of things.

BTW People always have more to contribute here than they think.

Thanks again!
Title: Re: Zee's Shop Beginnings
Post by: Tennessee Whiskey on February 05, 2017, 11:07:40 PM
+1 on the 48" outlets; remember the knees when squatting and dizzy spells while bending over  :stir:. Another vote for the 220v sub panel; hey, this many people can't be steering you wrong. What's for Super Bowl food?

Cletus
Title: Re: Zee's Shop Beginnings
Post by: zeeprogrammer on February 05, 2017, 11:34:59 PM
+1 on the 48" outlets; remember the knees when squatting and dizzy spells while bending over  :stir:. Another vote for the 220v sub panel; hey, this many people can't be steering you wrong. What's for Super Bowl food?

T's chili. I hate it. Not the food. The denial of having a 3rd or 4th serving.  ;D

Yeah, I know she's trying to keep me around. I should ask her if she's sure about that.

BTW It's not the number of people that counts. It's the quality of people.  ;D

What are you all doing for Super Bowl?
Title: Re: Zee's Shop Beginnings
Post by: crueby on February 05, 2017, 11:36:18 PM
Some covers or guards for those plugs are a good idea for any right near the lathe or mill, I was just using the fly cutter (no, not slicing flies) and noticing how far the swarf was flying, could go right into outlets that high.
Title: Re: Zee's Shop Beginnings
Post by: Flyboy Jim on February 06, 2017, 12:18:39 AM
Some covers or guards for those plugs are a good idea for any right near the lathe or mill, I was just using the fly cutter (no, not slicing flies) and noticing how far the swarf was flying, could go right into outlets that high.

Chris, as I was sitting here reading your post, I looked over at my lathe and mill. Guess what's right in the line of "flying swarf" from my fly cutter.  :facepalm:

Jim
Title: Re: Zee's Shop Beginnings
Post by: jclouden on February 06, 2017, 12:40:26 AM
I went down to the shop and looked and even with 4 outlets behind the lathe and mill, between mill, lathe, lights and dro all the outlets are filled!

Jon


Sent from my SM-T700 using Tapatalk

Title: Re: Zee's Shop Beginnings
Post by: crueby on February 06, 2017, 01:00:46 AM
I went down to the shop and looked and even with 4 outlets behind the lathe and mill, between mill, lathe, lights and dro all the outlets are filled!

Jon
Sent from my SM-T700 using Tapatalk


The nearby outlets in my shop (converted ground floor bsck bedroom) are all filled too, even the extra circuit I added that doubled the number. If you do have an open slot in a bad place, there are cheap outlet cover plugs sold for cutting drafts that you can use to cover them, essentially a plastic piece with prongs that slip into the outlet.


Title: Re: Zee's Shop Beginnings
Post by: zeeprogrammer on February 06, 2017, 01:43:41 AM
Well. Then I'm glad this came up. If it helps anyone prevent a disaster...that is great!

I will keep that in mind for sockets near flying debris.

(Not a problem until I get to the point of making debris. And I'm not talking parts.)
Title: Re: Zee's Shop Beginnings
Post by: Flyboy Jim on February 06, 2017, 02:37:55 AM
Well. Then I'm glad this came up. If it helps anyone prevent a disaster...that is great!

I will keep that in mind for sockets near flying debris.

(Not a problem until I get to the point of making debris. And I'm not talking parts.)

I'm guessing that you have a lot of debris making going on around there right now! As they say: "I've been there and done that".........not planning on doing it again (remodeling)!

Jim
Title: Re: Zee's Shop Beginnings
Post by: zeeprogrammer on February 06, 2017, 03:39:15 AM
I'm guessing that you have a lot of debris making going on around there right now! As they say: "I've been there and done that".........not planning on doing it again (remodeling)!

Yeah. Mud all around the house. Nails and pieces of 2x4s everywhere. Dust on everything. Electrical cables hanging everywhere. And it's cold.

If it weren't for some semblance of a kitchen in the upstairs bedroom I think she would have killed me by now.

But that would negate the insurance.  ;D
Title: Re: Zee's Shop Beginnings
Post by: Art K on February 06, 2017, 04:17:23 AM
Zee,
I've been lurking, things seem to be moving along. I did an addition on the back on the back of my garage a few years back. Had my niece's significant other do the electrical. All the interruptible outlets became a problem with my garage door. The city inspector said, I can't tell you, that you should run an extra outlet with a normal plug for the opener, after I leave. Something about the age of our opener didn't agree with the circut. I now have 20 X 8 rather than 8 X 12 but it still seems to small. Good luck with the project.
Art
Title: Re: Zee's Shop Beginnings
Post by: Flyboy Jim on February 06, 2017, 04:27:49 AM
I'm guessing that you have a lot of debris making going on around there right now! As they say: "I've been there and done that".........not planning on doing it again (remodeling)!

Yeah. Mud all around the house. Nails and pieces of 2x4s everywhere. Dust on everything. Electrical cables hanging everywhere. And it's cold.

If it weren't for some semblance of a kitchen in the upstairs bedroom I think she would have killed me by now.

But that would negate the insurance.  ;D

I did a total remodel of the home we had, before the one we're in now. Gutted the kitchen, 2 bathrooms, living room, and two bedrooms. We basically moved into the garage with the kitchen, dining room and living room.  After, unsuccessfully, trying to make pizza in an electric frying pan, I got ahold of a built-in oven and temporally  wired it up, sitting on saw horses in the gutted out kitchen. Then we had an oven and pizza again..............life was good!  :LickLips:

Jim
Title: Re: Zee's Shop Beginnings
Post by: zeeprogrammer on February 06, 2017, 11:31:26 AM
@Art - interesting issue. GFCI hasn't come up yet. Now it's on my list of questions. We have them only in the kitchen and bathrooms but that's because those rooms had been remodeled less than 12 years ago.

@Jim - I pulled the microwave that also works as a convection oven out of the kitchen and put it upstairs. Stole my youngest daughter's standard microwave and put that up. T got an induction plate. Stole an adjustable table from eldest daughter. And setup 3 bookshelves with dishes, food, etc. Luckily we still have access to the fridge downstairs. I do the dishes in the hall bathroom.

More concrete today and framing should get finished. Hopefully new windows around the 20th.
Title: Re: Zee's Shop Beginnings
Post by: jclouden on February 06, 2017, 01:22:23 PM
Zee,
RE GFCI:  code requires GFCI on any outlet in an unfinished or wet area.  I put outlets at each garage door opener location and they kept tripping the GFCI. This was 11 years ago.  I had to rewire the opener ceiling outlets to a non-GFCI circuit.  I would have the opener outlet(s) put on a dedicated circuit from the panel to allow easy change if needed.
Jon


Sent from my SM-T700 using Tapatalk

Title: Re: Zee's Shop Beginnings
Post by: sshire on February 06, 2017, 01:54:54 PM
Zee
Air. I installed RapidAir system as a surface mount because my walls were closed. When my brother did his shop, he installed it before the walls were closed. Both work fine. A snap to install. I've got outlets at the mill, lathe, blast cabinet, surface grinder, CNC mill, paint/powder coat and a few other places. Some for coolant systems (Noga mini cool and Microdrop both need air). As essential as electrical outlets. Plus, no air hoses to trip over. The air outlets are mostly 48" from the floor.

http://www.rapidairproducts.com/#
Title: Re: Zee's Shop Beginnings
Post by: ShopShoe on February 06, 2017, 03:10:18 PM
I have a combination of high and near-floor outlets. Some things you buy nowadays come with cords so short you can't place them on the floor and locate them where you want without "running out" of cord. Lots of extension cords is not what you want either. Since my shop is also a garage and sometimes I work outside I have multiple weather-proof outlets outside so I can work outside without running cords through doors.

Also, don't forget to put some outdoor lighting in places where you might be loading or unloading (or cleaning up that spilled whatever) when it is dark. Even if you only use it a few times a year, you will not be sorry.

My airlines are not in the wall as I worked in a place where that was done and any leaks or problems with the air system could not be easily repaired without tearing out wallboard. Besides that, I have followed the recommendation to put drains at low spots in the lines and near the outlets and it is just easier with outside lines. Plus, I have my airlines (3/4-inch piping) at tank pressure and have filter-regulators at point-of-use or where hoses connect. Most of this was installed when I restored cars and I did a lot of painting, but I believe that is the best way to do an air system.

ShopShoe
Title: Re: Zee's Shop Beginnings
Post by: zeeprogrammer on February 06, 2017, 05:39:50 PM
@Jon, Thanks. Bottom line it will be up to the electrician and whatever requirements there are. Everything is finished but the garage would be subject to wetness from the cars.

@Stan, Thanks. I'll have to look into that system at some point. I don't have any plans at this time since I don't know where all the equipment will eventually get to. I suspect I won't do fixed piping though. I haven't used air very much but I suspect that will change over time. I just don't know to what.

@ShopShoe. I'm hoping to make use of outdoors behind the shop. I couldn't put a pad down yet because there's a maximum on how much ground can be impermeable. There's a light out there as well as in front of the garage. I'm also putting in a couple of shop lights in the garage and may be able to work there with door open. The garage is ending up about 4' longer than my old one so I have extra space for benches, etc. Wow...sounds like I'm setting up like a pro...but I'm very much still a newbie.  ;D Main thing is getting space. I can decide what to do with it later. Not having space kind of limits the possibilities.
Title: Re: Zee's Shop Beginnings
Post by: zeeprogrammer on February 15, 2017, 10:38:50 PM
An update...

Some of the siding coming off. The two windows will be removed and a large one installed for the converted old garage to master bedroom.
Everything to the left of the top windows is new. Workshop is at far end of garage.

(http://i605.photobucket.com/albums/tt139/zeeprogrammer/Remodel/IMG_0228_zpssktwggn1.jpg) (http://s605.photobucket.com/user/zeeprogrammer/media/Remodel/IMG_0228_zpssktwggn1.jpg.html)

A shot from the added utility room towards a sink to the left of the new workshop. The sink is coming from the old kitchen.
It has a hot water butler...so coffee is no problem. That's right. I drink instant. Deal with it.  ;D

(http://i605.photobucket.com/albums/tt139/zeeprogrammer/Remodel/IMG_0230_zpsa9q7utkf.jpg) (http://s605.photobucket.com/user/zeeprogrammer/media/Remodel/IMG_0230_zpsa9q7utkf.jpg.html)

A shot from within the converted garage to master bedroom towards the new bathroom and closet.
We're going to put in a heated floor for the bathroom.
As most of you know, my number one goal in life is to keep her happy. Rewards are priceless.

You'll notice the floor is concrete. Originally it was to be framed but the depth and unevenness of the foundation walls was a problem.
It will be carpeted.

(http://i605.photobucket.com/albums/tt139/zeeprogrammer/Remodel/IMG_0246_zpscif8wn6b.jpg) (http://s605.photobucket.com/user/zeeprogrammer/media/Remodel/IMG_0246_zpscif8wn6b.jpg.html)

A shot from the family room towards the kitchen and beyond the old dining room.
You can see from the floor how much was expanded.
The dining room will become T's office. It has access to outside deck straight to her garden. Remember what I just said about happiness?
The new dining room will take up part of the old living room. We don't use the living room much.

(http://i605.photobucket.com/albums/tt139/zeeprogrammer/Remodel/IMG_0247_zpsp4xpcolr.jpg) (http://s605.photobucket.com/user/zeeprogrammer/media/Remodel/IMG_0247_zpsp4xpcolr.jpg.html)

A shot from the family room towards the new sun porch. You can also tell from the floor we bumped the family out a little.
They originally placed the windows in the sun porch wrong. They had to be lowered so we could see down into the yard when sitting in the sun porch.

(http://i605.photobucket.com/albums/tt139/zeeprogrammer/Remodel/IMG_0248_zpscjpbnrha.jpg) (http://s605.photobucket.com/user/zeeprogrammer/media/Remodel/IMG_0248_zpscjpbnrha.jpg.html)

Thanks for looking.
I can't understand why you would be interested in this kind of detail.
Shall I limit my posting to progress on the shop?
Title: Re: Zee's Shop Beginnings
Post by: 10KPete on February 15, 2017, 10:57:14 PM
Limit?? Not just no, but h*** no!! Some of us are gleaning ideas from work such as this. And a fellow ME doing this work is even more interesting!! That's a big project, Carl. You have more balls than I do!

Pete
Title: Re: Zee's Shop Beginnings
Post by: crueby on February 15, 2017, 11:04:06 PM
Coming along great!

You didn't say - which space is the shop elves room? Hope you didnt forget them!  :facepalm:
Title: Re: Zee's Shop Beginnings
Post by: zeeprogrammer on February 15, 2017, 11:28:01 PM
Thanks Pete.

You didn't say - which space is the shop elves room? Hope you didnt forget them!  :facepalm:

To forget them would be inviting disaster.

But no...no space. I'm putting in an anti-elf system. It's tough enough dealing with Murphy.

I can't tell you about the anti-elf system. It's proprietary and patents are in progress.
Given the abundance of elves on this forum I stand to make a fortune once the patents are granted.
A fortune!

And the patents will granted. Rest assured. You can bet those patent people deal with those troublesome gremlins too.


Title: Re: Zee's Shop Beginnings
Post by: crueby on February 15, 2017, 11:39:31 PM
Thanks Pete.

You didn't say - which space is the shop elves room? Hope you didnt forget them!  :facepalm:

To forget them would be inviting disaster.

But no...no space. I'm putting in an anti-elf system. It's tough enough dealing with Murphy.

I can't tell you about the anti-elf system. It's proprietary and patents are in progress.
Given the abundance of elves on this forum I stand to make a fortune once the patents are granted.
A fortune!

And the patents will granted. Rest assured. You can bet those patent people deal with those troublesome gremlins too.
Oh great. My shop elves saw that before I could distract them, now they are organizing a bus trip and protests in your front yard!  Using all my paint for the little signs, collecting mini tomatoes to throw...
 :facepalm:
Title: Re: Zee's Shop Beginnings
Post by: Dave Otto on February 15, 2017, 11:44:52 PM
That's looking great Zee! I'm amazed to see green grass and that you have pulled this off in the middle of winter.
Our snow finally melted and the grass, pretty well smashed flat and brown. Here's hoping that we are done with the with crap for this year.


Dave
Title: Re: Zee's Shop Beginnings
Post by: zeeprogrammer on February 16, 2017, 01:00:52 AM
Oh great. My shop elves saw that before I could distract them, now they are organizing a bus trip and protests in your front yard!  Using all my paint for the little signs, collecting mini tomatoes to throw...

If you love your shop elves...as I think you do (for whatever nefarious reasons)...you might want to put a stop to that. They won't be coming back. I am prepared.  ;D

I'm amazed to see green grass and that you have pulled this off in the middle of winter.

Thanks Dave. Yeah, for the last few years it's been pretty strange. I was worried about winter work but timing and the elements have been fortunate to us. So far.

We could have started in the fall...but that would have destroyed get-to-gethers  with the family for the holidays. And if we waited for summer that would destroy get-to-gethers to enjoy the pool and grilling. Spring would destroy T's gardening...(probably the most important thing to avoid  ;D ). Her canned goods, fresh veggies, and wonderful dinners...well, I am one fortunate man.

So instead we opted for winter. A bit of freezing upstairs because the HVAC is messed up but it's working out.

We came a long way to get here.

And this forum is part of the story now.
Title: Re: Zee's Shop Beginnings
Post by: Flyboy Jim on February 16, 2017, 04:35:49 AM
Thanks for the update, Zee. It's coming right along. Someone's doing a good job keeping the job site cleaned up.

By all means keep posting updates of the whole project.

Jim
Title: Re: Zee's Shop Beginnings
Post by: zeeprogrammer on February 17, 2017, 11:28:50 PM
A general idea of the shop.

Starting with the mill.
Between it and the lathe will be a tool chest (on wheels). I may move/replace it with other storage.
Entry is at bottom right so if I'm working at the machines I'll see people come in.

Going clockwise...
drafting table
desk
file cabinet
a couple of lab benches I got from work. they have overhead lights and socket strips. one will be for electronic work and the other as general purpose.
I might only be able to place one as I think I'm missing a pole.

The shelves represent general storage area.

And a general workbench in the middle.

Just a general idea. More storage will be put in. I need to figure out a place for the horizontal saw, grinder, blasting cabinet, photo booth.
Some of which may be under a table and pulled out as needed.

The corner near the entry may be a showcase for my unfinished and never started projects.  ;D

They put windows in the shop today. I hope to provide pictures tomorrow.

And wouldn't it be cool to have some rail track somewhere?

Thanks for looking.
Title: Re: Zee's Shop Beginnings
Post by: crueby on February 17, 2017, 11:35:04 PM
Nice!
Title: Re: Zee's Shop Beginnings
Post by: Flyboy Jim on February 18, 2017, 12:21:33 AM
Good start Zee.

One question I have: Weren't you going to have your desk in front of one of the windows?

OK two questions: Are you going to have some kind of roll around bench to put pieces and tools on while working at the lathe and mill. I'd be lost if I didn't have a nice big workbench right behind me when I'm working at my lathe and mill. Of course you might be neater than I am!  :shrug:

Anyway, I bet you're getting excited being able to start thinking about setting up your shop.

Jim
Title: Re: Zee's Shop Beginnings
Post by: steamer on February 18, 2017, 12:51:10 AM
Make a simple ladder frame with 4x4's....put 3" casters under it, and bolt the 4x6 bandsaw on top.   Now it rolls under the bench until needed.   Also good for cutting long stock outside.

Dave
Title: Re: Zee's Shop Beginnings
Post by: zeeprogrammer on February 18, 2017, 02:31:32 PM
Jim...T thinks I want a desk there and a number of people think I should...but no. The desk is at the other end of the room for a number of reasons.
1) Sunlight can be too bright and depending on angle of light make things look odd. I could use blinds but that's somewhat of a pain.
2) Having the desk at the far end is near the entry. I expect to spend the majority of my time at the desk so it's handy for people (and the hot water water butler is near!).
3) I have the milling machine to the right of the windows and swarf is an issue. I want the mill far from the entry and that's the only place. Originally it was on the other side of the room but this way I can see the entry in the corner of my eye and not get startled when someone enters.

Having said that...I may have an assembly bench there.

And regarding roll around bench...I hope to have several things I can roll around. You might recall Marv's roll-around light and small platform. Things like that.

Dave...yes...that kind of stuff. I'm going to wait until I get some of the stuff in the workshop and see what I have left. The ceiling is tall and I might be able to make use of that...having platforms etc. that I can hoist up and down (so long as not too heavy - the ceiling joints weren't designed for weight).

A couple of pics...

In the shop. To the right of the windows will be the mill.

(http://i605.photobucket.com/albums/tt139/zeeprogrammer/Remodel/IMG_0249_zpsecpenn9f.jpg) (http://s605.photobucket.com/user/zeeprogrammer/media/Remodel/IMG_0249_zpsecpenn9f.jpg.html)

In the family room looking at the sun porch.

(http://i605.photobucket.com/albums/tt139/zeeprogrammer/Remodel/IMG_0250_zpsqy8pdykf.jpg) (http://s605.photobucket.com/user/zeeprogrammer/media/Remodel/IMG_0250_zpsqy8pdykf.jpg.html)

Title: Re: Zee's Shop Beginnings
Post by: gerritv on February 18, 2017, 03:03:22 PM
Good call on the desk location. It is generally speaking bad for your eyes to have windows behind your desk. You would be constantly straining to adapt to the light from window o focus on your monitor.

The desk in my office can only be under a window, and so I have the blinds closed during the day. The one benefit is that I don't see the nearby Stop Sign runners zipping through :-)

Gerrit
Title: Re: Zee's Shop Beginnings
Post by: Dave Otto on February 18, 2017, 03:36:58 PM
Hi Zee

Grizzly has this shop planner tool, http://www.grizzly.com/workshopplanner
It might be fun to play with.

The remodel appears to be moving along nicely.


Dave
Title: Re: Zee's Shop Beginnings
Post by: Don1966 on February 18, 2017, 04:12:38 PM
Looking good Zee but I don't see a sink. A wash sink is a great addition to your shop. You will need to clean stuff and wash hands. A paint tent is also a good thing to have with ventilation to the outside. Do you plan to add a bead blaster? You will enjoy the shop when complete and it will be you escape hole. Keep the piccys coming buddy.
Title: Re: Zee's Shop Beginnings
Post by: zeeprogrammer on February 18, 2017, 04:33:45 PM
Thanks Gerrit.

Dave...I played with that planner. Fun. The only thing is you're somewhat limited in choices. Cubify takes longer but I'm able to draw pretty close to what I intend to use.

Don...just outside the entry is going to be our kitchen sink from the old kitchen. It includes a hot water butler  :ThumbsUp: To the right of the sink is a built-in roll-out trash can that was also a part of the kitchen. They're going to re-use the counter top from the kitchen too.

Yes I have a bead blaster. Not sure if I'll have room in the shop. Since it's not an everyday-use tool, I may put it in the garage on the other side of the shop wall.
Paint booth, if ever, would probably be the same.

The intent is that the stuff I'll use "a lot" will be in the shop. Other stuff will be in the garage but is easily accessible.

I remembered yesterday that I need a photo studio. That may be something that can be pulled down from the ceiling or folded up. So long as it's easy to get to and use.

Nesting is such fun.  ;D

Thanks for looking in.

All suggestions welcome.
Title: Re: Zee's Shop Beginnings
Post by: Dave Otto on February 18, 2017, 04:34:46 PM
Ditto on the sink; I have a laundry tub in my shop and would be lost with out it. With the water supply and drain located right there in the wall now would be the time to at least have them roughed in.

Dave
Title: Re: Zee's Shop Beginnings
Post by: zeeprogrammer on February 18, 2017, 05:37:19 PM
I'd showed this before but here's the plumbing for the old kitchen sink. Entry to the workshop is just to the right.
Behind the plumbing is the garage.
You can tell there's an extra 4' of length to the garage. I'll be able to use that  ;D

(http://i605.photobucket.com/albums/tt139/zeeprogrammer/Remodel/IMG_0230_zpsa9q7utkf.jpg) (http://s605.photobucket.com/user/zeeprogrammer/media/Remodel/IMG_0230_zpsa9q7utkf.jpg.html)
Title: Re: Zee's Shop Beginnings
Post by: zeeprogrammer on February 18, 2017, 06:37:22 PM
Narrowing down the lathe and mill choices...what to get?

For the lathe it's between the PM1030V and Grizzly G0752.
If one can believe the listed specs...here's the differences I have some questions about.
2nd column is PM, 3rd is Grizzly

Spindle mounting system            direct mount           1 3/4, 8 TPI         ?
Speed                                          50-2000                  100-2000            PM wins
Cross travel slide                          5                             6 1/2                   How important?
Tail Stock Quill Taper                    MT2                         MT3                    ?
Cross Power Feed                         included                  no                       PM wins
4-Jaw included                             5"                            6 1/2"                 ?
Price                                            1999                        1795                   PM wins with power feed

I'm thinking the PM wins but I am concerned about the spindle mounting system. I take it that 'direct mount' means you bolt it on?
What the advantages/disadvantages of either.
I'm wondering too about the 4-jaw but the PM one can be replaced right?

For the mill it is between the PM25MV and Grizzly G0759.
Looking at the pictures they appear identical.

Cross Travel                                  7                            5 1/2                   Why such a difference?
Longitudinal Travel                        19                          17 7/8                 Again a difference, but not much
Quill DRO                                      yes                        yes
DRO                                             option 699             included               Grizzly wins.
X Axis Power Feed option             299                       320
Price                                             1599                     1850                     Grizzly wins with DRO

So I'm leaning towards the PM again. More cost if I want to add the DRO but it seems good to get both machines from same vendor.

I didn't include features that were essentially identical.

What are your thoughts? Thanks for the help.
Title: Re: Zee's Shop Beginnings
Post by: Jo on February 18, 2017, 06:55:39 PM
Is there a gear box on the lathe. :headscratch: Throw..... Hole up the spindle.... Faceplate. Collets...

Mill: Table size, Z axis movement..... DRO is a must but can be put on later.

For those prices a good industrial machine should be an option. If you know someone who knows about machine tools..  ;)

Jo
Title: Re: Zee's Shop Beginnings
Post by: Kim on February 18, 2017, 07:01:05 PM
Tough choices Zee...

You don't say what the threading capabilities are for the two lathes, but I assume they must be comparable, since you didn't list it?

I'm betting the quality will be very similar which ever way you go.  So if you're comfortable with availability, parts, & service, I'd go with the one that you feel gives you the better deal.  If you like the PM machines, I'd do that.  As I mentioned earlier, I ALMOST went with them when I purchased my new lathe 3 years ago and I heard a lot of positive about the PM machines.  Of course, in the end, I went with Grizzly, but that was MY choice, not yours, and the decision was made on very subjective criteria.  As I said, I don't think there's going to be much difference between the two brands overall quality wise.

Go for it Zee!  I can't wait to see what you end up with!
Kim
Title: Re: Zee's Shop Beginnings
Post by: mklotz on February 18, 2017, 07:07:51 PM
Some threading operations are more conveniently done with the lathe running in reverse.  This means there is some chance that a screw-on chuck might unscrew.  Direct mount prevents that.  Not a biggy but you asked.

A quick change gear box is, IMO, essential.  You will cut threads at some point; it's not as difficult as it appears prior to doing it.

On the mill, consider X power feed an absolute essential.
Title: Re: Zee's Shop Beginnings
Post by: gerritv on February 18, 2017, 07:14:27 PM
Jo, both lathes have 1" spindle bore.
The gear trains for threading will be the same I think.
The G0602/0752 have clamps on the chuck/spindle mount to lock it in place for reverse turning.
The biggest difference between the two IMO:
1. If the PM is DI-4 cam lock then that wins. Screwing heavy lumps of metal while holding it up and not crushing your fingers by accident is something to avoid :-)
2- The PM has T-Slot cross slide. This provides a wider base for the compound. That is an area that ppl complain about on the G0602/752's. This comes into play when cutting off anything substantial. The t slot lets you mount a tool post on the rear as well as other goodies.

Gerrit
(Owner of a 2003 model King KC1022ML, aka G0602)

Now wondering if the PM1030 t slot cross slide will fit on the G0602/752/KC1022. mmmmnn, something to dream about.
Title: Re: Zee's Shop Beginnings
Post by: zeeprogrammer on February 18, 2017, 07:43:02 PM
There is thread capability. I didn't do a compare as I don't have the experience to know what to look for.
I may have missed it, but I didn't see any references to the gear box.
But these are pretty popular machines so I'm thinking any differences in threading capability won't matter to me.

Gerrit put his finger on it regarding the spindle mount.
I don't know anything about camlocks, how they work, what the machine needs or the chuck needs.
Quick searching hasn't helped yet as, again, I don't have the knowledge.

I hadn't noticed the T-slot cross slide. That's seems a big win for the PM.

Go for it Zee!  I can't wait to see what you end up with!

I am! I am! It's which it will be it is the problem.  ;D
Title: Re: Zee's Shop Beginnings
Post by: gerritv on February 18, 2017, 08:50:26 PM
I forgot to mention, ask for the manual for the PM1030. The G0752 is available on the Grizzly site.

I think the threading gear/gear box (the dials with I, II, III and A,B,C) look the same as Grizzly, if so then this Windows app will be of use: http://www.cnczone.com/forums/benchtop-machines/151573-g0602-threading-guide-windows-app.html. I didn't create it but have  plans to make it available on Android but don't hold your breath :-) The Projects in MEtal link I posted earlier also has a downloadable Excel spreadsheet which helps choose the gear train with broadest range of pitches.

The biggest pain you will have with both lathes is switching from threading back to carriage feed mode but after a while that is not too big a deal either. Unless you are doing a lot of different thread pitches it isn't too bad.

In the end it is about getting value for dollar with a price you can afford. Generally I live by the rule 'buy the best you can afford', usually avoids regrets and buying again! At least you don't have to factor in the horrible CAD<->USD exchange rate.

Gerrit
Title: Re: Zee's Shop Beginnings
Post by: zeeprogrammer on February 18, 2017, 09:23:28 PM
Thanks Gerrit.

I've only done threading twice on my mini-lathe. Once to make a small hammer and once to make a machinist's clamp.
I don't think I'll be doing much threading. For most things I want to do it seems off-the-shelf bolts/screws are available.

But every time this topic comes up, a lot of people chime in on how important thread capability is. I'd like to understand this more.

Certainly, it's a great thing for the odd repair or helping hand to a neighbor...but that seems more convenience than necessity.

So let's hear from some people...what are you specifically doing that calls for your being able to thread?
What am I missing? Because from my standpoint...I don't get the importance for the things I intend to do.

Oh...and we're talking both external and internal threading right? I'll be interested in thoughts on internal threading too.

Thanks
Title: Re: Zee's Shop Beginnings
Post by: mklotz on February 18, 2017, 09:55:04 PM
Why single point threading?

You can't get a tap big enough to make an accessory to fit on your lathe spindle.  Even if you could, you're not strong enough to turn it.

The nose on your Dremel has an oddball, proprietary thread.  You want to make an accessory.  Similar situation with lots of tools.

You're making a measuring instrument and the drunken thread resulting from a tap/die just isn't going to cut it.

You want to make a camera filter accessory for your camera and you can't find a die to cut a 1 mm pitch thread on something two inches in diameter.

You want to make a draw-in nut for your 5C collet and the tap costs $400.  (The tap wrench is another $100)

And, finally, you don't want to risk having smart asses like me in the future tell you, "I told you that you needed single point threading capability."
Title: Re: Zee's Shop Beginnings
Post by: zeeprogrammer on February 18, 2017, 09:58:00 PM
Why single point threading?

You can't get a tap big enough to make an accessory to fit on your lathe spindle.  Even if you could, you're not strong enough to turn it.

The nose on your Dremel has an oddball, proprietary thread.  You want to make an accessory.  Similar situation with lots of tools.

You're making a measuring instrument and the drunken thread resulting from a tap/die just isn't going to cut it.

You want to make a camera filter accessory for your camera and you can't find a die to cut a 1 mm pitch thread on something two inches in diameter.

You want to make a draw-in nut for your 5C collet and the tap costs $400.  (The tap wrench is another $100)

And, finally, you don't want to risk having smart asses like me in the future tell you, "I told you that you needed single point threading capability."

There's always that one feature or issue that sells a person on an idea...

It's that last one. I'm sold  ;D
Title: Re: Zee's Shop Beginnings
Post by: mklotz on February 18, 2017, 10:08:59 PM
Yeah, I win a lot of arguments with that gambit. :-)
Title: Re: Zee's Shop Beginnings
Post by: Dave Otto on February 18, 2017, 10:41:44 PM
I'm just glad you took our advise and decided to install a sink!  :lolb:


Dave
Title: Re: Zee's Shop Beginnings
Post by: zeeprogrammer on February 18, 2017, 10:59:25 PM
I'm just glad you took our advise and decided to install a sink!  :lolb:

It was always in the plans. Up to now, I had to use the kitchen or powder room.
You can imagine the results...

"Who did this!!!"
"What's this junk!!!"
"What are you doing!!!"

As I said before...happiness is keeping her happy.

That may sound a bit chauvinistic but it's not.
My philosophy applies to anyone. Make them happy...you'll be happy.

For Cletus...

Tonight is stir fry shrimp. Rice, peppers, green beans and some white wine.
It's pretty amazing what she can do with a temporary kitchen.
More amazing that she doesn't let project stop her from creating great meals.

What a second.

I'm beginning to think this isn't about me.  :thinking:
She likes her good food too.
Crap! This isn't about making me good meals. It's about her having a good meal.

Ah well. That's cool. Still a win.
Title: Re: Zee's Shop Beginnings
Post by: gerritv on February 19, 2017, 12:42:15 AM
I think we need a cooking thread! I made bitterballen  (http://coquinaria.nl/english/recipes/Stock/Kroket.htm)the other day, lovely snacks and better homemade than store bought.
Title: Re: Zee's Shop Beginnings
Post by: jclouden on February 19, 2017, 01:37:50 AM
Zee,
I think that the PM25 price includes shipping.  If you are going to pick up in Pittsburg Matt will deduct the shipping charge.  Also, I believe he will take off about 3% for cash/check.
Jon


Sent from my SM-T700 using Tapatalk

Title: Re: Zee's Shop Beginnings
Post by: zeeprogrammer on February 19, 2017, 12:52:32 PM
I think we need a cooking thread! I made bitterballen  (http://coquinaria.nl/english/recipes/Stock/Kroket.htm)the other day, lovely snacks and better homemade than store bought.

I had to look that one up. Yum!!

I think that the PM25 price includes shipping.  If you are going to pick up in Pittsburg Matt will deduct the shipping charge.  Also, I believe he will take off about 3% for cash/check.

Yes. The PM25 has free shipping. Good to know about the 3%. That would help. Thanks.
Title: Re: Zee's Shop Beginnings
Post by: ShopShoe on February 20, 2017, 02:42:30 PM
I know I'm late.

Yes, get the threading gearbox.  I'm not reading the specs for the machines you list, but what is the range of threads for the gearbox? Does the range include the threads you might want to cut in your situation? (In my dreams for a new lathe I think I will want to do small metric threads and quite a few specs stop short of what I think I would want.) Does the range of speed available include low enough for careful threading and high enough for what you might want to finish small parts?

Don't forget to compare the accessories that come with your choice. I see the same basic (It appears) lathe listed from different vendors, but one includes only 3-jaw chuck and the other includes 3-jaw, 4-jaw, faceplace, steady rest, follow rest.

Will you be adding QCTP, DRO, etc. right away or can it wait?

Thank you for asking us to spend your money for you (chuckle)

Seriously, I'm enjoying your shop build. Thanks for posting.

ShopShoe
Title: Re: Zee's Shop Beginnings
Post by: zeeprogrammer on February 20, 2017, 02:58:12 PM
Thanks ShopShoe,

PM1030                                                   G0752
8-56TPI, 21 threads (imperial)                8-72TPI, 33 threads (imperial)
0.2mm to 3.5mm pitch (metric)              0.25mm to 3.5mm, 26 threads (metric)
thread chasing dial                                   not mentioned
gear box not mentioned                           gear box not mentioned
50-2000 variable speed                            100-2000 variable speed

Pretty much the same accessories except:
G0752 has 6 1/2 4-jaw while the PM is 5"
PM has power cross feed
PM comes with QCTP. If I go for the G0752 I would get one pretty quickly.
I would wait on DRO except I'd like to add something to the tail stock quill.

As for threading...I have no idea about future needs. Most anything I've done I can get off-the-shelf or use a die.
Seems I'd be looking at the odd-ball thread or large threads and that seems it would likely be repairs.
Not something I'd be planning for.
If I go for the G0752 which has a threaded spindle...then that may be of concern/interest.

Still leaning very much to the PM machines.
Title: Re: Zee's Shop Beginnings
Post by: steamer on February 20, 2017, 04:10:17 PM
Zee    what's the spindle noses on both lathes?

If it's threaded, make sure the lathe will be able to cut the same thread pitch as the spindle nose.

Dave
Title: Re: Zee's Shop Beginnings
Post by: zeeprogrammer on February 20, 2017, 06:40:22 PM
Spindle Bore on both is 1"
Spindle Taper on both is MT#4
Direct mount for PM. For Grizzly 1-3/4, 8TPI

Is that what you mean by 'spindle nose'? (I don't see such reference in the specs.)
As to the question, you're asking if I could make a thread for the spindle? I'm assuming so but  :shrug:

and now for something completely different...

Anyone know/use Insteon?
Anyone gone solar? We're in PA and considering it. Wouldn't lease. Seems to make more sense to purchase particularly, as I understand it, a decent federal tax rebate is available.

I saw the post about kids wanting purchase tools but never making anything.
I hope I'm not one of them.  ;D
Nah. I've got projects lined up.

Title: Re: Zee's Shop Beginnings
Post by: steamer on February 20, 2017, 06:46:27 PM
Spindle Bore on both is 1"
Spindle Taper on both is MT#4
Direct mount for PM. For Grizzly 1-3/4, 8TPI

Is that what you mean by 'spindle nose'? (I don't see such reference in the specs.)
As to the question, you're asking if I could make a thread for the spindle? I'm assuming so but  :shrug:

and now for something completely different...

Anyone know/use Insteon?
Anyone gone solar? We're in PA and considering it. Wouldn't lease. Seems to make more sense to purchase particularly, as I understand it, a decent federal tax rebate is available.

I saw the post about kids wanting purchase tools but never making anything.
I hope I'm not one of them.  ;D
Nah. I've got projects lined up.

Yes...make sure that the Grizzly can turn an 8 pitch thread.  The other one is direct mount, so it's just a flange with some screws.   

Dave
Title: Re: Zee's Shop Beginnings
Post by: zeeprogrammer on February 26, 2017, 03:11:23 PM
A little update...

Decking started. Still have rails and steps to put in.
(http://i605.photobucket.com/albums/tt139/zeeprogrammer/Remodel/deck2_zpspdg0yc0d.jpg) (http://s605.photobucket.com/user/zeeprogrammer/media/Remodel/deck2_zpspdg0yc0d.jpg.html)

Another shot showing one big boo-boo. The left-most door goes to what used to be the dining room and is now T's office.
It's too small  :cussing: Was supposed to be 6' wide but is 5'. Makes it a bit more difficult to go in and out.
Although T is slim, she's 6' tall and will be carrying gardening stuff in and out.

It will be replaced. $$$

(http://i605.photobucket.com/albums/tt139/zeeprogrammer/Remodel/deck1_zps5ajj0rtd.jpg) (http://s605.photobucket.com/user/zeeprogrammer/media/Remodel/deck1_zps5ajj0rtd.jpg.html)

And a shot outside my workshop.

(http://i605.photobucket.com/albums/tt139/zeeprogrammer/Remodel/siding1_zpshuub7nfy.jpg) (http://s605.photobucket.com/user/zeeprogrammer/media/Remodel/siding1_zpshuub7nfy.jpg.html)

Apologies to Don. I tried yet again to upload the dance video. Stuck again.
Title: Re: Zee's Shop Beginnings
Post by: Flyboy Jim on February 26, 2017, 03:28:21 PM
Wow Zee............that's more than a "little update"! Looks like major progress. I bet the next update shows the BBQ and chairs on the deck!  :LickLips: :DrinkPint:

Jim
Title: Re: Zee's Shop Beginnings
Post by: kvom on February 26, 2017, 04:11:42 PM
Just caught up this thread after 2 weeks away.  A few comments:

1) Swarf on outlets can be a problem.  For the ones nearest my CNC mill I covered the unused sockets with duct tape.

2) Can't have too many outlets.  Mine are all lower than 48" but I put a power strip on the front of work benches where needed.

3) For the lathe I'd consider power cross feed a necessity.  Likewise a 5C collet chuck.  Along with collet blocks for mill work these collets make many jobs easy.  A gearbox for threads is also highly recommended.  My lathe is 11" swing and has been good for what I needed.

4) A large air compressor with connections at both lathe and mill are useful.

5) Definitely install a shop sink if at all possible.
Title: Re: Zee's Shop Beginnings
Post by: gerritv on February 26, 2017, 04:28:41 PM
The excitement must be mounting by the day now.
Title: Re: Zee's Shop Beginnings
Post by: zeeprogrammer on February 26, 2017, 04:51:28 PM
Thanks Jim. A lot more to go. Insulation next week. Then I believe drywall. And then some flooring.

@kvom: Thanks. Yes I plan to protect outlets. They are all at 4'. I have two on one side for the machines and 3 on the other. I don't know if I'll need strips. I have a couple of lab benches for the other side, and if I recall correctly, they have strips built in.

As for the lathe...the one I'm leaning towards has power cross feed. I like that machine (PM 1030V) but haven't called the vendor yet to see about a 5V collet chuck. I really really want that.

I'll probably just run hose for the air compressor rather than piping. Not sure yet.

Sink is just outside workshop door and I can't say this enough...it has a built in hot water butler for my instant coffee.  :whoohoo:

@gerritv: Indeed the excitement mounts. As does the worry. We're way over budget  :o  :'( and new ideas keep coming.   :facepalm:
Title: Re: Zee's Shop Beginnings
Post by: b.lindsey on February 26, 2017, 07:29:16 PM
That is coming along well Zee. A lot has been done since the last picture update. Bummer bout the door though.

Bill
Title: Re: Zee's Shop Beginnings
Post by: joe d on February 26, 2017, 07:49:56 PM
That's looking nice Zee.  Bet you will enjoy the view from the shop.
As to which lathe, I'd go for the PM, as the lowest speed would be more comfortable for single pointing,
especially up to a shoulder or near the chuck.

Joe
Title: Re: Zee's Shop Beginnings
Post by: crueby on February 26, 2017, 08:04:48 PM
Nice!!!
Title: Re: Zee's Shop Beginnings
Post by: Tennessee Whiskey on February 26, 2017, 08:27:58 PM
Looking good Zee. Is that Trex or similar for the decking? Don't forget an electrical outlet or three on the deck .

Cletus
Title: Re: Zee's Shop Beginnings
Post by: zeeprogrammer on February 26, 2017, 10:02:04 PM
Thanks guys.

Joe...it will probably be the PM. If I can't get the 5C collet chuck...no biggie. I don't have one now. But I suspect there must be a way.

The deck is Wolf PVC. I expect it will get hot but it's near-zero maintenance. Two outlets and a  water spigot. We're looking into adding a motorized awning. The deck is south facing and even if you can stand the deck heat...it will be hot hot hot. But also so we can sit and enjoy a summer rain (and grill).
Title: Re: Zee's Shop Beginnings
Post by: crueby on February 26, 2017, 10:54:26 PM
The awning would be a good idea, my front porch is South facing, similar size to your porch, with an overhanging roof. On bright sunny days the shade makes it perfect. Cloudy or cooler days, the direct sun is great.


Your shop elves will love it, little rockers and hammocks, grill made out of a lunchbox, tunnel into the fridge for their beer...   :ROFL:
Title: Re: Zee's Shop Beginnings
Post by: zeeprogrammer on February 26, 2017, 11:20:04 PM
Your shop elves will love it, little rockers and hammocks, grill made out of a lunchbox, tunnel into the fridge for their beer...   :ROFL:

No shop elves here. They found better digs further north.

I thank you.  ;D

There is, however, a gnome hiding out around here. I just know it.
Question will be...does he wait for the shop to arrive or does he bag it and follow his buddies northward?

Let me know if you see his footie-prints. Left foot has 6 toes. Right one has 4.
Which is probably why he's been sticking around.

He sort of fits in.

Title: Re: Zee's Shop Beginnings
Post by: crueby on February 26, 2017, 11:47:20 PM
Your shop elves will love it, little rockers and hammocks, grill made out of a lunchbox, tunnel into the fridge for their beer...   :ROFL:

No shop elves here. They found better digs further north.

I thank you.  ;D

There is, however, a gnome hiding out around here. I just know it.
Question will be...does he wait for the shop to arrive or does he bag it and follow his buddies northward?

Let me know if you see his footie-prints. Left foot has 6 toes. Right one has 4.
Which is probably why he's been sticking around.

He sort of fits in.
Sounds like they left a scout behind to build in the hidey holes and keep the rest of the caravan posted. I'll look you up in their database and see what their plans are. My bet is that they'll use the noise of the open house party to move in.


 :Lol:
Title: Re: Zee's Shop Beginnings
Post by: Dave Otto on February 27, 2017, 12:54:41 AM
It's all looking great Zee!  :ThumbsUp:

Thanks for the update.
Dave

PS. Its snowing here. >:(
Title: Re: Zee's Shop Beginnings
Post by: zeeprogrammer on February 27, 2017, 01:11:37 AM
@Chris...no worries here. I don't make mint chocolate cookies. You're a black hole to them elves.

PS. Its snowing here. >:(

I don't know whether that's good or bad. It's February and we've had 70 degrees the last few days. (Getting colder now though.)
It's just wrong. We already have flies. Weird ones. They know something is wrong. And plants are popping up.
It's going to be a bad year for plants and a good year for bugs.

And between you, me, and the rest of group, I'm hoping for a blizzard the week of March 6th. That would shut down the engineering conference I have to help preside over.
I am not looking forward to it.

Why?

It's about rolling out a software development process in the company. And I've never come across 3 software engineers that can agree on anything.
In this case, it's a couple of hundred of people with their own ideas. Worse, they're all over the world...so I have to contend with cultures.
(Don't get me wrong...cultural diversity is an underestimated asset - just look at this forum. But it does add nuances you have to be sensitive to.)

Yeah...I'm one of them engineers with an idea of how things should go. But in this case I'm the herder of the rats cats. Not looking forward to it.

I need a bat. And maybe a blanket. Have a couple of parties. Know what I mean?

 :lolb: :lolb: :lolb:

Retirement was around the corner. But this project has moved the corner.

Title: Re: Zee's Shop Beginnings
Post by: mklotz on February 27, 2017, 01:39:39 AM

No shop elves here. They found better digs further north.


The elves probably moved north to live with the pukwudgies up in Allentown. 
Title: Re: Zee's Shop Beginnings
Post by: zeeprogrammer on February 27, 2017, 02:11:18 AM
The elves probably moved north to live with the pukwudgies up in Allentown.

I thought they were out west. Near LA. Close to their leader.
Living in a place called...what is it? Oh yeah...the Garaj Mahal.

 :lolb:
Title: Re: Zee's Shop Beginnings
Post by: mklotz on February 27, 2017, 02:21:41 AM
The elves probably moved north to live with the pukwudgies up in Allentown.

I thought they were out west. Near LA. Close to their leader.
Living in a place called...what is it? Oh yeah...the Garaj Mahal.

I'm not their leader, just an aging agelast who knows them from my days in the fount of provincialism.

Nevertheless, there are certainly some weird creatures in Garaj; besides me, that is.

You do know, I trust, that pukwudgie isn't just some nonsense word...

A pukwudgie is a 2-or-3-foot-tall being from the Wampanoag folklore. Pukwudgies' features resemble those of a human, but with enlarged noses, fingers and ears. Their skin is described as being a smooth grey, and at times has been known to glow.
Title: Re: Zee's Shop Beginnings
Post by: Flyboy Jim on February 27, 2017, 02:50:02 AM
The elves probably moved north to live with the pukwudgies up in Allentown.

I thought they were out west. Near LA. Close to their leader.
Living in a place called...what is it? Oh yeah...the Garaj Mahal.

I'm not their leader, just an aging agelast who knows them from my days in the fount of provincialism.

Nevertheless, there are certainly some weird creatures in Garaj; besides me, that is.

You do know, I trust, that pukwudgie isn't just some nonsense word...

A pukwudgie is a 2-or-3-foot-tall being from the Wampanoag folklore. Pukwudgies' features resemble those of a human, but with enlarged noses, fingers and ears. Their skin is described as being a smooth grey, and at times has been known to glow.

Thanks for the clarification Marv. I was thinking that "Pukwudgies" might be shop elves that had been eating too many of Chris's mint chocolate chip cookies!  :LickLips: :ROFL:

Jim

PS: Zee, you'll be able to have a 5C chuck of some sort. It's a must as far as I'm concerned.
Title: Re: Zee's Shop Beginnings
Post by: zeeprogrammer on February 27, 2017, 10:43:04 AM
The elves probably moved north to live with the pukwudgies up in Allentown.

I thought they were out west. Near LA. Close to their leader.
Living in a place called...what is it? Oh yeah...the Garaj Mahal.

I'm not their leader, just an aging agelast who knows them from my days in the fount of provincialism.

Nevertheless, there are certainly some weird creatures in Garaj; besides me, that is.

You do know, I trust, that pukwudgie isn't just some nonsense word...

A pukwudgie is a 2-or-3-foot-tall being from the Wampanoag folklore. Pukwudgies' features resemble those of a human, but with enlarged noses, fingers and ears. Their skin is described as being a smooth grey, and at times has been known to glow.

Hence my confusion as to their leader.  :lolb:

(I had looked it up. My question is...how did that term come into your life?)

@Jim...yeah I figure there's a way to get a 5C collet chuck on the machine. I've done some searching and haven't found anyone doing it. If not commercially available I would think an adaptor can be made, or some kind of back plate used. I just don't have the experience to 'know' the solution yet. Thanks.
Title: Re: Zee's Shop Beginnings
Post by: zeeprogrammer on February 28, 2017, 12:43:31 AM
They got the deck in. That will be the outdoor shop. For grilling and smoking though.
Going to need awnings. That's south facing and gets hot.

Insulated today.
Drywall begins Wednesday.

(http://i605.photobucket.com/albums/tt139/zeeprogrammer/Remodel/deck_zpsdkycs9hu.jpg) (http://s605.photobucket.com/user/zeeprogrammer/media/Remodel/deck_zpsdkycs9hu.jpg.html)
Title: Re: Zee's Shop Beginnings
Post by: crueby on February 28, 2017, 01:11:52 AM
Those railings really set it off, looking great!

Title: Re: Zee's Shop Beginnings
Post by: 10KPete on February 28, 2017, 01:15:27 AM
That's beautiful, Zee. You'll have so much fun there.... plant a couple of shade trees.

Pete
Title: Re: Zee's Shop Beginnings
Post by: Dave Otto on February 28, 2017, 01:18:20 AM
Looks great!

Dave
Title: Re: Zee's Shop Beginnings
Post by: zeeprogrammer on February 28, 2017, 01:21:52 AM
That's beautiful, Zee. You'll have so much fun there.... plant a couple of shade trees.

 :'( :'( :'( Don't remind me. We had a beautiful pear tree about mid-way across that deck and maybe 12 feet from the house.

It was beautiful. Stunk for some reason once a year.

 :'( :'( :'( And don't remind me. I think she has plans. And they probably involve me.  :cussing:
She's already commenting on how one of our backyard trees is choking itself by the roots. Hope it lasts another year or two.

Thanks guys. That deck was an after-thought. Originally it was just behind the left most door so T could scoot out to her garden.
Title: Re: Zee's Shop Beginnings
Post by: b.lindsey on February 28, 2017, 01:36:48 AM
It really coming together Zee, is that the wider 6 foot doorway now?

Bill
Title: Re: Zee's Shop Beginnings
Post by: gerritv on February 28, 2017, 02:38:13 AM
That deck is big enough for a gathering! It's great to have somewhere covered so you can bbq etc in the rain or snow or sun. We wouldn't be without our awning.
Title: Re: Zee's Shop Beginnings
Post by: Flyboy Jim on February 28, 2017, 02:59:31 AM
Looking good Zee. Has a nice look. There's lots of awning options out there, so shouldn't be a problem getting shade until trees get bigger.

Jim
Title: Re: Zee's Shop Beginnings
Post by: Steamer5 on February 28, 2017, 03:32:24 AM
Hay Zee,
 Looking like things are moving along at a right pace! You'll be in the new rooms in no time! Judging by the "food channel" report once "T" gets her real kitchen back you waiste line is going to take a hiding!

On the 5C chuck, i too am thinking about one but having an Emco lathe with a din spindle finding rocking horse manure is way easier! However I was YouTube surfing & a clip I was watching the gent was holding the 5C in a 4 jaw chuck! He didn't give any hints on how he set it up!

Cheers Kerrin
Title: Re: Zee's Shop Beginnings
Post by: mike mott on February 28, 2017, 03:33:27 AM
Quote
We had a beautiful pear tree about mid-way across that deck

I hope that the pear wood went to the model shipbuilding community, it is a prized wood that hobby.

The shop and deck look great.

Mike
Title: Re: Zee's Shop Beginnings
Post by: crueby on February 28, 2017, 03:49:48 AM
Quote
We had a beautiful pear tree about mid-way across that deck

I hope that the pear wood went to the model shipbuilding community, it is a prized wood that hobby.

The shop and deck look great.

Mike
Swiss pear, yes.


Bradford pear, not so much!
Title: Re: Zee's Shop Beginnings
Post by: zeeprogrammer on February 28, 2017, 11:02:14 AM
@Bill: The deck is 10' wide and about 30' long. T realized she can have part of her garden along the front of it. That's the old door. They're supposed to take it out today in order to redo the header and opening but it will be 5-6 weeks before the replacement arrives.

@Gerrit: Sounds like the awning has to be roof mounted. I need to make sure we can get out of the sun porch when it is extended. BTW from the food channel...we don't go out to eat hardly at all either. Not worth the noise and expense. She loves to cook and I love her cooking. My only cost is to do the dishes. Well worth it!

We do order in on occasion.  ;D Environment counts!

@Kerrin: Interesting thought using the 4-jaw to hold the collet.

I don't recall the pear type. It was about 20' tall. Shaped somewhat like a pine cone. Small flowers. No fruit. Not sure if it's the type.

I'd thought about the wood but was not aware of T's schedule. Went to work one morning...came home,,,and it was gone. All gone.  :'(
Title: Re: Zee's Shop Beginnings
Post by: Tennessee Whiskey on February 28, 2017, 07:10:57 PM
Oh Hell yeah, the deck looks like someplace I need to bring the Traveling Cletus BBQ Crew to( maybe I could get a Television Food Network show) Stan has a Sunsetter awning, he'll give you a "no sh$t review. On the collet chuck forefront; I almost called PM today to get a clarification on "direct mount" . I understand the Dx whatever camlock, I understand the threaded spindle, i.e. 1.5"x8 tpi, but, I've never seen specs just say "direct mount" , what exactly does this mean. Back to the remodel; why should anyone have to wait that long for a standard 6'0" atrium door, cause see, I'm having to wait also on a deck restoration we're doing that requires a 6 O door . Maybe size doesn't really matter to the younger generation. Tell everybody hey and keep the nails and screws outta the driveway

Cletus
Title: Re: Zee's Shop Beginnings
Post by: zeeprogrammer on February 28, 2017, 10:08:47 PM
I almost called PM today to get a clarification on "direct mount" . I understand the Dx whatever camlock, I understand the threaded spindle, i.e. 1.5"x8 tpi, but, I've never seen specs just say "direct mount" , what exactly does this mean.

I'm thinking it's like my mini-lathe. Chuck is bolted on. When the chuck is off, you see a round plate with the spindle hole and 4 bolt holes around the perimeter.
Hold the chuck against the plate and bolt from rear through the plate.

It's a real pain. And no fun holding a chunk of metal as one's fat fingers try to get one bolt in...and then drop it.
Title: Re: Zee's Shop Beginnings
Post by: mklotz on February 28, 2017, 11:41:06 PM
And no fun holding a chunk of metal as one's fat fingers try to get one bolt in...and then drop it.

Those carefully crafted blocks of wood that hold a chuck at exactly the right height for securing aren't just things to protect the ways when some butterfingers drops it.
Title: Re: Zee's Shop Beginnings
Post by: 10KPete on March 01, 2017, 12:13:21 AM
You mean these things??

Pete
Title: Re: Zee's Shop Beginnings
Post by: zeeprogrammer on March 01, 2017, 01:44:08 AM
Well I'm glad I asked. Great ideas. Thanks.

From butterfinger phillips.

Title: Re: Zee's Shop Beginnings
Post by: Walsheng on March 01, 2017, 01:56:44 AM
Grizzly sells a plain back 5C collet chuck.  It's a bit pricey but it is a Bison and it is really really nice.  I bought one and made a back plate for it for a 10" lathe.  I am getting about .0001" run-out at the chuck and less than .0002" 8" out.

John
Title: Re: Zee's Shop Beginnings
Post by: zeeprogrammer on March 01, 2017, 02:06:10 AM
Grizzly sells a plain back 5C collet chuck.  It's a bit pricey but it is a Bison and it is really really nice.  I bought one and made a back plate for it for a 10" lathe.  I am getting about .0001" run-out at the chuck and less than .0002" 8" out.

I'll look that up. I don't know what you mean by 'plain back'.

.0001" run-out is amazing in my world.
Title: Re: Zee's Shop Beginnings
Post by: Walsheng on March 01, 2017, 02:17:44 AM
Grizzly sells a plain back 5C collet chuck.  It's a bit pricey but it is a Bison and it is really really nice.  I bought one and made a back plate for it for a 10" lathe.  I am getting about .0001" run-out at the chuck and less than .0002" 8" out.

I'll look that up. I don't know what you mean by 'plain back'.

.0001" run-out is amazing in my world.

Plain back just has some mounting holes and you need a backing plate to mount it to the lathe.  In my case the lathe has a 1-3/4" - 8 thread on the spindle and the mounting plate screws on and the chuck is bolted to the backing plate.

John
Title: Re: Zee's Shop Beginnings
Post by: zeeprogrammer on March 02, 2017, 11:22:33 PM
Drywall started today...  :whoohoo:

New master bedroom (was old garage)

(http://i605.photobucket.com/albums/tt139/zeeprogrammer/Remodel/1_Bedroom_zpswrxxrqbs.jpg) (http://s605.photobucket.com/user/zeeprogrammer/media/Remodel/1_Bedroom_zpswrxxrqbs.jpg.html)

Enlarged kitchen. The drain and pipes in the middle are for the island.
I'm hoping to wash a whole lot of dishes in there. Know what I mean?
Dare I say, almost as good as having the shop  :paranoia: But a guy has to eat.

(http://i605.photobucket.com/albums/tt139/zeeprogrammer/Remodel/1_Kitchena_zpspafkjaur.jpg) (http://s605.photobucket.com/user/zeeprogrammer/media/Remodel/1_Kitchena_zpspafkjaur.jpg.html)

New garage. The 2nd HVAC goes into that closet.

(http://i605.photobucket.com/albums/tt139/zeeprogrammer/Remodel/1_Garage_zpsw5xlig5w.jpg) (http://s605.photobucket.com/user/zeeprogrammer/media/Remodel/1_Garage_zpsw5xlig5w.jpg.html)

Enlarged family room looking towards new sun porch.

(http://i605.photobucket.com/albums/tt139/zeeprogrammer/Remodel/1_Family_zpsad68axrg.jpg) (http://s605.photobucket.com/user/zeeprogrammer/media/Remodel/1_Family_zpsad68axrg.jpg.html)

Sun porch looking out towards the deck.

(http://i605.photobucket.com/albums/tt139/zeeprogrammer/Remodel/1_SunPorch_zpssvtcfqg4.jpg) (http://s605.photobucket.com/user/zeeprogrammer/media/Remodel/1_SunPorch_zpssvtcfqg4.jpg.html)

New utility room. Washer/dryer will be to the left. More importantly, freezer and 2nd fridge on the right.
Remember what I said about eating?
T has a huge garden and cans and freezes a lot of her output.
Sshhh. I can't stand egg plant.

(http://i605.photobucket.com/albums/tt139/zeeprogrammer/Remodel/1_Utility_zpsxzvhr87p.jpg) (http://s605.photobucket.com/user/zeeprogrammer/media/Remodel/1_Utility_zpsxzvhr87p.jpg.html)

And the shop.
What the heck? It's not done. Time for a blanket party.  :cussing:
Sounds like they're installing the vinyl floor in about a week. But crap...they intend to use the room to store everything for the next stages (cabinets, etc.)

(http://i605.photobucket.com/albums/tt139/zeeprogrammer/Remodel/1_Workshop_zpsxup7efti.jpg) (http://s605.photobucket.com/user/zeeprogrammer/media/Remodel/1_Workshop_zpsxup7efti.jpg.html)

 :whoohoo:
Title: Re: Zee's Shop Beginnings
Post by: Steamer5 on March 02, 2017, 11:38:19 PM
Hi Zee,
 Looking good!
Yep know all about the food! We built new a few years back, the kitchen, for some reason, got prioity!

I know it's maybe a bit late, but lining the man play zone with plywood is the way to go, you can screw stuff to it anywhere you wont! My USLESS builder was supposed to do mine like that, he was putting up the last sheet of gib, err drywall, when I arrived!  :censored: should of jumped up & down yelled & screamed, but I'd upset him enuff......according to R!

Cheers Kerrin
Title: Re: Zee's Shop Beginnings
Post by: 10KPete on March 03, 2017, 12:11:27 AM
Looking good!! But as an old wallboard guy I have to point out that there should never be a vertical seam going up from the corner of an opening.... it'll always be cracking and you can't stop it. Joints must butt on the same timber...

Pete
Title: Re: Zee's Shop Beginnings
Post by: zeeprogrammer on March 03, 2017, 01:01:51 AM
I know it's maybe a bit late, but lining the man play zone with plywood is the way to go, you can screw stuff to it anywhere you wont! My USLESS builder was supposed to do mine like that, he was putting up the last sheet of gib, err drywall, when I arrived!  :censored: should of jumped up & down yelled & screamed, but I'd upset him enuff......according to R!

Thanks Kerrin. I suppose though that it's not too late to put plywood up over the drywall. Once I have the basics in and understand how I'm going to arrange storage...it's something to think about.

Looking good!! But as an old wallboard guy I have to point out that there should never be a vertical seam going up from the corner of an opening.... it'll always be cracking and you can't stop it. Joints must butt on the same timber...

Pete. Argh. Hmmm..wel if that happens...might be a good place for some plywood.  ;D

But I will raise the question to the builder.
Title: Re: Zee's Shop Beginnings
Post by: Art K on March 03, 2017, 05:01:57 AM
Zee,
Just wanted to say the addition looks great. Don't Know much about dry wall, they hung it in my shop & I did the mudding. Turned out ok and nothing's cracked yet. It was a PITA though, all that dust even with the mask and sanding over my head.
Art
Title: Re: Zee's Shop Beginnings
Post by: ShopShoe on March 03, 2017, 01:37:15 PM
I put plywood up above benches and wherever I thought I might want to mount things to the wall. Another product I have used around machines is 1/8-in panels (like "masonite") that have factory smooth finish applied ("blank paneling," if you can find it near the printed wallboard at your lumberyard or home center) It wipes clean easily, but can be damaged by sharp objects. Better than paint and cheaper than metal. You would put it over drywall or plywood for an easy-to-clean surface.

I ripped plywood sheets into  2-ft. by 8-ft. pieces and attached them to the wall above the benches to serve as "backsplashes." They actually are hung so the bottom is below bench-top level so that benches can be pushed to wall without damaging it. My benches are movable, but heavy enough so they stay in place so that small objects do not fall between the bench-top and the wall.

For painting the shop, I used "Kilz" primer (Disclaimer, not involved with them but use the product) over wallboard and plywood alike and followed with latex paint sold as rugged and easily cleaned (Can't remember what brand now, but was a national, not a bargain brand.)

ShopShoe
Title: Re: Zee's Shop Beginnings
Post by: zeeprogrammer on March 03, 2017, 09:40:37 PM
Thanks Art. I've done drywall and mud before. It fell into the bucket of "thing's I'll never do again".  ;D

Thanks ShopShoe. Yes. The idea is backsplashes behind the machines. Thanks for the suggestions.
Title: Re: Zee's Shop Beginnings
Post by: 10KPete on March 03, 2017, 10:25:11 PM
Thanks Art. I've done drywall and mud before. It fell into the bucket of "thing's I'll never do again".  ;D


I last hung wallboard 40 years ago, or more. When we did the garage/shop here 10 years ago I hired a couple of young'ns to do it.

I'm afraid it would have killed me.

Pete
Title: Re: Zee's Shop Beginnings
Post by: crueby on March 03, 2017, 10:32:08 PM
Thanks Art. I've done drywall and mud before. It fell into the bucket of "thing's I'll never do again".  ;D

Thanks ShopShoe. Yes. The idea is backsplashes behind the machines. Thanks for the suggestions.
A backsplash works great, keeps oil and grime off the walls. I used some prefinshed wainscoting paneling to make a 2' high surround behind the bench and at the ends. Much easier to clean than painted drywall, takes hits from flying swarf better too.
Title: Re: Zee's Shop Beginnings
Post by: zeeprogrammer on March 03, 2017, 11:15:46 PM
I did ask the builder about the drywall.

Right or wrong...he said it's less of an issue these days.
Drywall is both glued and nailed.
Headers over windows and doors are laminated.
Movement is near to nothing.

Fine I said. I know where you live.

His dad was with him. The son is 2nd generation in the business.
Actually grew up in my neighborhood. His dad lives a couple blocks away.

He's an up front guy and has stood by his claim that any mistake he makes...he'll take care or eat the cost.
He's proved that too on this project.

We're pretty happy with him. Even gotten to know his new baby.

If all continues to go well...we'll have him and family over for a celebration when all is over.

Very unusual. We're fortunate.

So far.  ;D
Title: Re: Zee's Shop Beginnings
Post by: b.lindsey on March 03, 2017, 11:39:43 PM
Great progress Zee. Do you have a completion gate in mind yet?

Bill
Title: Re: Zee's Shop Beginnings
Post by: mklotz on March 03, 2017, 11:45:11 PM
Great progress Zee. Do you have a completion gate in mind yet?

Bill

For the fence? 
Title: Re: Zee's Shop Beginnings
Post by: zeeprogrammer on March 04, 2017, 12:50:16 AM
Hi Bill. Completion should be end of April to 1st week of May. (But I have suspicions - is it ever done?)

Hi Marv. Har har. But on that note...yes...we have to replace the fence too. It's all wood. 17 years old and some parts have fallen over.
Have to replace since we have a pool.We're going with aluminum rail. Supposed to be life-time. A bit more expensive than wood but considering you have to replace wood every 15 years or so...it's cheaper over the long run.

But boy...sometimes it's hard to find people willing to work. Two calls to one company and no call back. Fine. My money can go to some one who wants it (and it won't be you people).  ;D

My advice to you is worth much more than that.  :lolb:

3 cents. Not the typical 2 cents.
Title: Re: Zee's Shop Beginnings
Post by: b.lindsey on March 04, 2017, 01:20:11 AM
Guess I was on the right track, just with the wrong letter. I just went through that here Zee, 17 year old wood picket type fence held together in places with baling wire and c-clamps. Replaced with 6 foot vinyl full privacy fence to keep the dogs from barking at every cat that wanders by. Should outlast me.

Bill
Title: Re: Zee's Shop Beginnings
Post by: 10KPete on March 04, 2017, 02:17:51 AM
It sounds like you've got a genuine winner for a drywall contractor! Make sure everyone know he's a winner. Gotta support guys like that.

Yeah, wood fences.... don't have any here, just wire.

After paint comes floors. That's when you know you're getting close.

Pete
Title: Re: Zee's Shop Beginnings
Post by: Doc on March 04, 2017, 03:52:36 AM
Hi Bill. Completion should be end of April to 1st week of May. (But I have suspicions - is it ever done?)


Hahaha NO  ;)    :ThumbsUp:
Title: Re: Zee's Shop Beginnings
Post by: Maryak on March 05, 2017, 04:27:26 AM
Hi Zee,

Progressing quite nicely.

One thing we dont have these days is wooden fences or even wooden fence posts..........They make wonderful termite food!!

In our estate the fencing between neighbours is mandated as to height colour and type. i.e. 1800mm high good neighbour design, ( means both sides look exactly the same), panels and posts are colourbond metal the colour being Forest Gold or for the less sophisticated fawn or the colour of beach sand! Our rear fence sits on top of a retaining wall so at the back we have an effective 2400mm high fence. Front fences to the street are prohibited.

Regards
Bob
Title: Re: Zee's Shop Beginnings
Post by: zeeprogrammer on March 07, 2017, 11:10:13 PM
Thanks guys.

Quickie update. This week is about an engineering conference. Lots of stress and time.
Gave another presentation yesterday that started with..."had a great discussion with all of the software engineers...makes me wonder why I'm a software engineer."  ;D
My presentation today mentioned our discussion about coding standards and selecting a single language to use.
"After scraping ourselves off the walls and verifying no blood was lost...we came up with a plan".
I'm not herding cats or turtles here. More like crocs and gators.
You can't get any agreement. "What do you mean green?" "What shade of green?" "I think the name for that green is wrong".

Sigh.

Drywall is done. Supposed to starting painting on Friday.
No pics. Had to use my PC at the conference and I'm missing some cables.

I'm thinking one wall is going to be a nice orange.

Yep.

I gots my reasons.
Title: Re: Zee's Shop Beginnings
Post by: Flyboy Jim on March 08, 2017, 02:51:25 AM


I'm thinking one wall is going to be a nice orange.

Yep.

I gots my reasons.

This should be good!  :popcorn:

Jim
Title: Re: Zee's Shop Beginnings
Post by: crueby on March 08, 2017, 03:52:02 AM


I'm thinking one wall is going to be a nice orange.

Yep.

I gots my reasons.

This should be good!  :popcorn:

Jim
Orange.   Orange?


Is it so spewed hopping stinkys, stopping hinkys, oh, wait, stinking hoppys, don't show on the wall?  :noidea:
Title: Re: Zee's Shop Beginnings
Post by: Kim on March 08, 2017, 04:05:25 AM
Orange!  That's Oregon State's  color!   :ThumbsUp:
Go for it Zee!  I'll support your choice of orange :)
Kim
Title: Re: Zee's Shop Beginnings
Post by: gerritv on March 08, 2017, 01:10:41 PM
Are you really Dutch underneath it all, supporting the footie team there? :-) We take Oranje to a whole new level!

Gerrit
Title: Re: Zee's Shop Beginnings
Post by: Tennessee Whiskey on March 08, 2017, 04:31:25 PM
Good "ol Rocky Top, Rocky Top, Rocky Top Tennessee: Yeah UT Orange

Cletus
Title: Re: Zee's Shop Beginnings
Post by: zeeprogrammer on March 09, 2017, 02:16:29 AM
Nah. The orange has nothing to do with you all.  ;D

T said I should have a bold statement. So what color to use?
I had suggested canyon red...but she says that makes people hungry. I know this to be true and I need to diet.
Blue is too depressing.
Yellow makes no sense as I have southern light coming in.
Green...well...maybe...but not my favorite. Seems like I would need to go outdoors.

When we bought our first home..it was classed as a 1 and half story house. So the upstairs bedroom had interesting features with respect to the ceiling.
It was painted a kind of peach/orange.
I loved that room. Our first house.

So it's about memories.

And making people ask questions.  ;D

We'll see how it turns out.
Eventually it will have to be repainted anyway.
No doubt things will get thrown across the room. Know what I mean?  :cussing: toss :cussing: toss :cussing: toss. oops.
Title: Re: Zee's Shop Beginnings
Post by: Don1966 on March 09, 2017, 04:50:12 PM
Good to see some up date on the shop buddy. I know you'll be a happy camper when it's all done. Glad for you man and you will enjoy you space for sure. Make sure you do it the way you want it since it will be you in there anyway. Looking good and waiting for more updates....... I ..........like........ :Love:

Don
 :drinking-41:
Title: Re: Zee's Shop Beginnings
Post by: plataman on March 11, 2017, 02:40:36 PM
Zee, I have been off line for awhile so missed the introduction of your new shop addition. What a great space, and how clever of you to sell the idea of a shop by adding to the kitchen, laundry room, ha ha! By being part of your home you also benefit from the availability of heat and a/c. Smart. Lots of good suggestions from the others, I wish I had that kind of input while building my shop in the back yard several years ago. In retrospect one thing I would change is more electrical outlets. All outlets in the shop are four feet off the floor so they never get covered up by a bench but I still use a couple of power strips due to running out of juice near the bench.
Great job, looking forward to pics of the finished product.

Terry in Texas

Title: Re: Zee's Shop Beginnings
Post by: zeeprogrammer on March 11, 2017, 07:44:22 PM
Thanks Don and Terry. Much appreciated.

Time for an update.
Walls are primed. Cement board is down in kitchen. I think tiling begins later this week....if....if....
We're expecting a north-east'r on Tuesday. Many inches of snow expected.
Got my vinyl picked out for the shop floor.

Here's a view of the shop looking south.

(http://i605.photobucket.com/albums/tt139/zeeprogrammer/Remodel/wks_zpscr5zdvcw.jpg) (http://s605.photobucket.com/user/zeeprogrammer/media/Remodel/wks_zpscr5zdvcw.jpg.html)

A view looking somewhat east. That wall is where the mill (near window) and lathe will go.
That way I don't have my back to the door.

(http://i605.photobucket.com/albums/tt139/zeeprogrammer/Remodel/wke_zpsl6q9juj5.jpg) (http://s605.photobucket.com/user/zeeprogrammer/media/Remodel/wke_zpsl6q9juj5.jpg.html)

View looking north where said door is. 36". You see past door where the old kitchen sink will be.

(http://i605.photobucket.com/albums/tt139/zeeprogrammer/Remodel/wkn_zpseuvxu5hj.jpg) (http://s605.photobucket.com/user/zeeprogrammer/media/Remodel/wkn_zpseuvxu5hj.jpg.html)

A bit more work on the outside too. This shows 3 of the upper story windows replaced and siding done.
The shutters on the bay window will be gone.

(http://i605.photobucket.com/albums/tt139/zeeprogrammer/Remodel/upper%20windows_zps8grpt7wf.jpg) (http://s605.photobucket.com/user/zeeprogrammer/media/Remodel/upper%20windows_zps8grpt7wf.jpg.html)

Thanks for looking in.
Title: Re: Zee's Shop Beginnings
Post by: Dave Otto on March 11, 2017, 08:02:48 PM
That's great progress Zee!

I think you will like the vinyl tile. The shop that I work in has regular old industrial 12" square floor tile. I would like to have something like that in my shop instead of the bare concrete. Usually about once a year we move everything out that isn't tied down and they strip and re-wax it. With a good coat of wax its pretty easy to keep clean, reflects much more light and when you drop a part on it, it doesn't leave a ding like concrete does.
My shop is also the garage and shared with the cars, so the tile wouldn't work out too well for my place.

Dave
Title: Re: Zee's Shop Beginnings
Post by: crueby on March 11, 2017, 08:33:17 PM
Great progress!

Though I think the floor in the shop should be deep shag carpet (orange). You'll never have to worry about a small part rolling out of the shop. Or finding it again, for that matter....

 :popcorn:
Title: Re: Zee's Shop Beginnings
Post by: Flyboy Jim on March 11, 2017, 08:53:37 PM
Thanks for the update Zee. What a difference drywall makes! You've got me thinking about vinyl tile in my shop, so I'll be watching.

Jim
Title: Re: Zee's Shop Beginnings
Post by: crueby on March 11, 2017, 08:55:57 PM
Thanks for the update Zee. What a difference drywall makes! You've got me thinking about vinyl tile in my shop, so I'll be watching.

Jim
I take it that there is vinyl tile that is tougher than the normal sheet vinyl flooring? The normal household stuff would not hold up well to chairs/table legs with swarf in between. Commercial grade?
Title: Re: Zee's Shop Beginnings
Post by: gerritv on March 11, 2017, 09:02:22 PM
We use colours from Benjamin Moore's green range often. E.g. my work room is Guillford Green HC116. I would happily paint my shop walls that as well. Earthy, not dark, easy on the eyes. Aura version eggshell is hardy, 2 coats and very cleanable. We gravitate toward earth colours in general as they are best (IMO) for your eyes and well being.
Title: Re: Zee's Shop Beginnings
Post by: Flyboy Jim on March 11, 2017, 09:21:33 PM
We use colours from Benjamin Moore's green range often. E.g. my work room is Guillford Green HC116. I would happily paint my shop walls that as well. Earthy, not dark, easy on the eyes. Aura version eggshell is hardy, 2 coats and very cleanable. We gravitate toward earth colours in general as they are best (IMO) for your eyes and well being.

I looked that color up. I like it.  :ThumbsUp: It'd look great with some natural wood trim.

Jim
Title: Re: Zee's Shop Beginnings
Post by: zeeprogrammer on March 11, 2017, 09:22:50 PM
Thanks all.

Here's a pic of the vinyl. Appalachian Pine.

It's not what I really wanted. I wanted something more industrial and very smooth. It would have been ugly.
In this case I deferred to T as I often do. In part because she's better at this than I am. In part because...I need to eat.
This stuff is slightly ridgy but is pretty shallow. It will be glued down.
As for swarf...
The plan (and we all know what happens to plans) is to have the mill and lathe as far south away from the door and 'office' area as I can.
Keep a broom handy. And swap shoes as I go from one area to another.
Not perfect but should help.

(http://i605.photobucket.com/albums/tt139/zeeprogrammer/Remodel/vinyl_zpsphcteak0.jpg) (http://s605.photobucket.com/user/zeeprogrammer/media/Remodel/vinyl_zpsphcteak0.jpg.html)
Title: Re: Zee's Shop Beginnings
Post by: b.lindsey on March 11, 2017, 10:04:57 PM
Things are really coming together nicely Zee. I am getting excited for you even.

Bill
Title: Re: Zee's Shop Beginnings
Post by: Steamer5 on March 11, 2017, 10:21:50 PM
Hi Zee,
 Things moving along nicely......but always too slowly!
You are going to have a fun play pen when it's all done!
Don't know about this vinyl stuff on the floor, can just hear the elves jumping for joy at the new skating rink! They will be able to get to the dropped part & vanish again before you can move your head!

I was going to suggest a different door way awhile back but you commented that you were at max width allowed, luckily we don't have that issue here! Made my entry door double doored but not double normal width....hope that makes sense, each door is 20" so you can get thru ok but if needed can open the other giving a bit more space. I also have a a triple width fold back door, well just about a wall ....that can open up. When I get done everything on the workshop side will be on wheels. I helped an old friend get his loco into his workshop a couple of times, skinny door 4 guys & a right angle turn was a pain so had the chance to do something better & did!

Cheers Kerrin
Title: Re: Zee's Shop Beginnings
Post by: philjoe5 on March 11, 2017, 10:28:43 PM
Zee,
Just got onto this thread as I'm more of a lurker here these days.  What a great man-cave you're going to have.  I'm sure you'll get much enjoyment from it.

Cheers,
Phil
Title: Re: Zee's Shop Beginnings
Post by: zeeprogrammer on March 12, 2017, 01:03:18 AM
Thanks guys.

@Kerrin...I'd thought about putting in a wider door on the north wall to the garage. But yes...zoning requirements made it too expensive to be worthwhile.
But the size mill/lathe I'm looking at easily passes a 36" door.
So roll through 36" garage door to house, make a left through wide entry, and another left into 36" door of workshop.
Should be good.

And...while the shop is a nice sized shop...every inch counts and more door takes away too much.

Frankly, I'm starting to have the same problem you all do. Once the shop is in play...what to do first?
Title: Re: Zee's Shop Beginnings
Post by: crueby on March 12, 2017, 01:15:20 AM
You HAVE checked that it will make the corners?!  Seen too many cabinets that would fit the door but not the turn from th the hallway combined with the door... And one fridge stuck solid in the turnaround at the landing.
Title: Re: Zee's Shop Beginnings
Post by: Kim on March 12, 2017, 01:36:45 AM
Thanks for the Shop update Zee, its looking really good and starting to get close to being done!

So how did all your cat herding at work go this week?  Did you get them all to agree on a single coding standard?  :lolb:

Kim
Title: Re: Zee's Shop Beginnings
Post by: Steamer5 on March 12, 2017, 03:48:02 AM
Hi Zee,
 Yep down this end of the world, as long as the council is happy no problem. Oh the doors open out of the shop into the garage space so no problem there....well except for the junk....errr precious items against the triple door, both sides that have to be moved to use them!

Cheers Kerrin
Title: Re: Zee's Shop Beginnings
Post by: Jo on March 12, 2017, 08:07:16 AM
Oh the doors open out of the shop into the garage space so no problem there....well except for the junk....errr precious items against the triple door, both sides that have to be moved to use them!

I keep the big double doors between my garage and the workshop camouflaged ;) in the same way in case some low life tries getting in there and stealing my boys  >:(

Speaking of which... Zee what thoughts have you had for security?

Jo
Title: Re: Zee's Shop Beginnings
Post by: zeeprogrammer on March 12, 2017, 12:49:09 PM
You HAVE checked that it will make the corners?!

 ::) Well I make it through.

@Kim, re: cat herding. Overall it went well. Due to illness I had to leave early Wednesday and didn't make it Thursday.
You all know what happens when you miss a meeting. You get actioned.  :cussing:
The entire lead team was sick so I was in good company.

@Kerrin and Jo: Here the garage doors have to be steel. And if I recall correctly would have had to open into shop. That would have severely hampered space in shop.

@Jo: re Security. I've been thinking just cameras up to now. And an intercom out to front porch so I can answer door without leaving shop.
5 outside porch lights so corners are lit up. Area is fenced (not that that means a whole lot but helps).
I expect to have some fun with electronics too  ;D
I'll be looking into security services but doubt I'll do anything at least for a while.

Thanks all!
Title: Re: Zee's Shop Beginnings
Post by: RonGinger on March 12, 2017, 02:50:37 PM
I spent all of my working years in cities- first Detroit, then the Boston area. When I retired I moved to the coast of Maine. There is one traffic light within about a 15 mile radius. Almost no street  light- on a good nigh I can see the milky way and stars beyond belief. I have no outside lights- well, a porch light we can turn on at the front door, but its never left on.  Our town has no police department.

I rarely lock the door to my shop which is also a direct entrance to the house. The weekly newspaper has a column by the Police department of the next town and they usually have 2 or 3 arrests, usually for DUI, but sometimes domestic assault.

I like our quiet, rural town security.
Title: Re: Zee's Shop Beginnings
Post by: Walsheng on March 12, 2017, 04:43:43 PM
Although our town is pretty crime free (no stolen cars in about a 12 year stretch), I put a couple of Nest cams in my shop. Easy to set up and they send an alert to my phone if there is an interruption.
I do get an occasional big old daddy long leg spider (grand kids call them Fred and Ed) come by, peek into the camera and set them off.

Shop is coming along nicely.  You will enjoy getting lost in there.

John
Title: Re: Zee's Shop Beginnings
Post by: crueby on March 12, 2017, 04:52:07 PM
I spent all of my working years in cities- first Detroit, then the Boston area. When I retired I moved to the coast of Maine. There is one traffic light within about a 15 mile radius. Almost no street  light- on a good nigh I can see the milky way and stars beyond belief. I have no outside lights- well, a porch light we can turn on at the front door, but its never left on.  Our town has no police department.

I rarely lock the door to my shop which is also a direct entrance to the house. The weekly newspaper has a column by the Police department of the next town and they usually have 2 or 3 arrests, usually for DUI, but sometimes domestic assault.

I like our quiet, rural town security.
Wow - very different than here! Unless there is a blackout of the county on a clear night (never that lucky), the only way I've been able to see the milky way was on trips up to Maine!
Title: Re: Zee's Shop Beginnings
Post by: zeeprogrammer on March 12, 2017, 08:54:40 PM
Yeah. Sad times. Although sometimes I think it's always been that way but now we get concerned because of all the media.
Back when you had nothing but 3 TV channels (sometimes 4) things seemed better.

The area I'm in is pretty low crime and the neighborhood is great.

Unfortunately it just takes one idiot.

A few years ago my daughters were home alone and some woman came to the door, pounding, yelling, screaming, and trying to get in.
Scared the crap out of them.
The woman had the wrong house.

And...it's not always a "criminal". Sometimes it's just an idiot kid thinking fun. Who, given the chance, would realize it was stupid.
But today...we have zero tolerance. I'm not a fan of that.

I do miss the stars. We live too close to the town.

To see the Milky Way is an awesome sight.

Anyway...I'm happy enough just to see what's going on around the house. I hope to set something up to watch the night animals.
We have quite a few around here.
Title: Re: Zee's Shop Beginnings
Post by: Art K on March 13, 2017, 01:58:52 AM
Zee,
By night animals you mean raccoons right. :mischief:
Art
Title: Re: Zee's Shop Beginnings
Post by: plataman on March 13, 2017, 03:04:50 AM
Hey Zee, Just had a thought.....How about that floor framing, will it hold the lathe and mill etc.?  It would certainly ruin your day if your mill fell into the basement. Are the floor joists up to the task? Texas Terry
Title: Re: Zee's Shop Beginnings
Post by: zeeprogrammer on March 13, 2017, 10:29:24 AM
By night animals you mean raccoons right. :mischief:

Haven't seen any around here. We've got foxes, ground hogs, squirrels, mice, voles, skunks, rabbits, deer, and birds.

@Terry...The floor is concrete and there's no basement under that part of the house. Originally was going to be framed. I had expressed my concern to the builder about the ability for framing to hold the weight and my desire for minimal vibration but he was thinking concrete would be more expensive. In the end he went with concrete. I think because it was easier since he had to pour for the garage and/or the cost was a wash. (It didn't hurt the builder's father knew what I was talking about regarding having heavy machines. Not that they're that heavy.)

Title: Re: Zee's Shop Beginnings
Post by: gerritv on March 13, 2017, 11:15:12 AM
Quote
Frankly, I'm starting to have the same problem you all do. Once the shop is in play...what to do first?
I keep a note stuck near each machine with a list of parts/items/tools/additions as a reminder of things to be done when the mood strikes. If I find myself waffling I just pick one and get it done.

One thing you haven't mentioned is storage for stock. I recently bought 700lbs of steel, al and stainless stock at a bargain price. Now when I need/want to make something I can just get on with it, no more 'wonder what MetalSupermarkets will charge for that'. Still have to sort out storage for it though, that is on one of my lists :-)

Gerrit
Title: Re: Zee's Shop Beginnings
Post by: zeeprogrammer on March 13, 2017, 10:38:41 PM
Hi Gerrit. Yes...I've not mentioned stock storage. My plan, such as it is, is to get the big stuff in place. Mill, lathe, lab benches, desk, drafting table and then see what I have.
Lots of stuff to consider. Paper towel holder, mirror, tools, etc. Luckily, just on the other side of the workshop, in the garage is extra space. Because of how the house was done, I have an extra 4' by 16' of space in the garage So one idea is to use that to store seldom used things. Stock is a candidate. (However I was thinking of putting some small wood working equipment out there. I don't want wood dust in the main shop but I'm interested in making picture frames, small boxes, display bases, etc. Not furniture.)

I like the idea of using some PVC piping as storage as well as bins and some shelves. We'll see. Key is to have things labelled. So far I use one kind of aluminum and brass. But the steels are another matter.

The workshop was painted today...much to my surprise. I love my wife for her suggestion. I'm going to like this. The other 3 walls are some kind of off-white. I forget the name. Reminds me of a very light praline.

It's cloudy right now. Blizzard due in a few hours. But during the day, with no clouds...man that room is lit.

I can hardly contain myself. But must. Can't get too excited. Certainly not more than her excitement. She must win.  :naughty:

(http://i605.photobucket.com/albums/tt139/zeeprogrammer/Remodel/orange%20shop_zps3r9g4jo2.jpg) (http://s605.photobucket.com/user/zeeprogrammer/media/Remodel/orange%20shop_zps3r9g4jo2.jpg.html)
Title: Re: Zee's Shop Beginnings
Post by: Dave Otto on March 13, 2017, 10:46:14 PM
Looks great Zee!


Dave
Title: Re: Zee's Shop Beginnings
Post by: zeeprogrammer on March 14, 2017, 12:03:15 AM
Get this...the name of the color on the one wall is..."Inventive Orange".
Is that not cool?  ;D

Question is...was she stating or wishing?

The other walls are egg-white.
Title: Re: Zee's Shop Beginnings
Post by: Walsheng on March 14, 2017, 01:42:44 AM
When you were talking about an orange wall it had me wondering...but that looks really nice.
It's going to be a nice bright and warm feeling room.
I can imagine the excitement starting to build!

John
Title: Re: Zee's Shop Beginnings
Post by: Flyboy Jim on March 14, 2017, 01:49:20 AM
Get this...the name of the color on the one wall is..."Inventive Orange".
Is that not cool?  ;D

Question is...was she stating or wishing?

The other walls are egg-white.

What................no "swarf gray"?  :shrug:

Jim
Title: Re: Zee's Shop Beginnings
Post by: crueby on March 14, 2017, 02:12:27 AM
Get this...the name of the color on the one wall is..."Inventive Orange".
Is that not cool?  ;D

Question is...was she stating or wishing?

The other walls are egg-white.

What................no "swarf gray"?  :shrug:

Jim
The oily swarf flying off the mill will change that color!
Title: Re: Zee's Shop Beginnings
Post by: zeeprogrammer on March 14, 2017, 01:03:20 PM
Get this...the name of the color on the one wall is..."Inventive Orange".
Is that not cool?  ;D

Question is...was she stating or wishing?

The other walls are egg-white.
What................no "swarf gray"?  :shrug:

That would be me.  ;D

Looks like we're not going to get the storm they had said. We have maybe 3 or 4". Mostly sleet and freezing rain coming down.
Might get another 1" today they 'said'.
Title: Re: Zee's Shop Beginnings
Post by: Flyboy Jim on March 14, 2017, 01:55:46 PM

Looks like we're not going to get the storm they had said. We have maybe 3 or 4". Mostly sleet and freezing rain coming down.
Might get another 1" today they 'said'.

Hopefully the freezing rain won't do too much damage............nasty stuff! Rainy with a high of 61 here today. I'll take it gladly.... compared to what you folks are dealing with back East.

Jim

PS: I just noticed that this is post 1000 for me.  :cheers: Only 3521 more and I'll be caught up with you, Zee!  :lolb:
Title: Re: Zee's Shop Beginnings
Post by: mklotz on March 14, 2017, 02:34:13 PM
...
Lots of stuff to consider. Paper towel holder, mirror, tools, etc.
...

I realize this is way early but, having just gone through the product search myself, let me pass some information along.

On most towel holders, if you give a pull the roll will rotate and spill paper towels out in a stream onto the floor.  Similarly, if you give a sharp tug to tear off one towel, the thing will vomit towels everywhere. 

Through dedicated research aided by a really good hint, I came across this...

https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0024AKCTS/ref=oh_aui_detailpage_o01_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1

The roller has a built-in light-duty ratchet.  As soon as your pull force stops, it stops the roller from further rotation.  At that point, a sharp tug will remove what you've unrolled without starting another towel vomit.  It's all stainless steel construction so it will outlast any cheap plastic towel rack.

I bought one and installed it in my shop and I'm pleased which, you can imagine, is no easy thing to do.  The only problem is that now my wife wants one. 
Title: Re: Zee's Shop Beginnings
Post by: zeeprogrammer on March 14, 2017, 03:20:56 PM
I like that Marv. Thanks.  :ThumbsUp:
Title: Re: Zee's Shop Beginnings
Post by: Jo on March 14, 2017, 03:23:09 PM
 :headscratch: Why is it you seem to have some nice looking gadgets over that side of the pond that could be added to the collection but they want twice as much in pounds as they cost in dollars over this side :noidea:.

Jo
Title: Re: Zee's Shop Beginnings
Post by: zeeprogrammer on March 14, 2017, 03:29:02 PM
:headscratch: Why is it you seem to have some nice looking gadgets over that side of the pond that could be added to the collection but they want twice as much in pounds as they cost in dollars over this side :noidea:.

Yeah well...you have better chocolates.  ;D

And curry.
Title: Re: Zee's Shop Beginnings
Post by: crueby on March 14, 2017, 03:45:42 PM
:headscratch: Why is it you seem to have some nice looking gadgets over that side of the pond that could be added to the collection but they want twice as much in pounds as they cost in dollars over this side :noidea: .

Yeah well...you have better chocolates.  ;D

And curry.
And ale.


And architecture.


And cars.
Title: Re: Zee's Shop Beginnings
Post by: Jo on March 14, 2017, 04:35:17 PM
Ancient and modern ruins ::)

Jo
Title: Re: Zee's Shop Beginnings
Post by: crueby on March 14, 2017, 06:38:46 PM
Ancient and modern ruins ::)

Jo
Oh, like our Detroit!
Title: Re: Zee's Shop Beginnings
Post by: zeeprogrammer on March 14, 2017, 07:57:07 PM
Ancient and modern ruins ::)

Jo
Oh, like our Detroit!

Like I feel after a bit of snow shoveling.
Title: Re: Zee's Shop Beginnings
Post by: steamer on March 15, 2017, 12:08:12 AM
...
Lots of stuff to consider. Paper towel holder, mirror, tools, etc.
...

I realize this is way early but, having just gone through the product search myself, let me pass some information along.

On most towel holders, if you give a pull the roll will rotate and spill paper towels out in a stream onto the floor.  Similarly, if you give a sharp tug to tear off one towel, the thing will vomit towels everywhere. 

Through dedicated research aided by a really good hint, I came across this...

https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0024AKCTS/ref=oh_aui_detailpage_o01_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1

The roller has a built-in light-duty ratchet.  As soon as your pull force stops, it stops the roller from further rotation.  At that point, a sharp tug will remove what you've unrolled without starting another towel vomit.  It's all stainless steel construction so it will outlast any cheap plastic towel rack.

I bought one and installed it in my shop and I'm pleased which, you can imagine, is no easy thing to do.  The only problem is that now my wife wants one.

We have one of those, but with a weighted base so that it just sits upright on the counter.   It works great!    The only down side is when I get up early for work, and I make coffee and such, and I need a towel, the ratchet wakes my wife up.....having said that, it says more about how much of a light sleeper she is , than how loud the ratchet is....

Dave
Title: Re: Zee's Shop Beginnings
Post by: Flyboy Jim on March 15, 2017, 02:22:47 AM
...
Lots of stuff to consider. Paper towel holder, mirror, tools, etc.
...

I realize this is way early but, having just gone through the product search myself, let me pass some information along.

On most towel holders, if you give a pull the roll will rotate and spill paper towels out in a stream onto the floor.  Similarly, if you give a sharp tug to tear off one towel, the thing will vomit towels everywhere. 

Through dedicated research aided by a really good hint, I came across this...

https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0024AKCTS/ref=oh_aui_detailpage_o01_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1

The roller has a built-in light-duty ratchet.  As soon as your pull force stops, it stops the roller from further rotation.  At that point, a sharp tug will remove what you've unrolled without starting another towel vomit.  It's all stainless steel construction so it will outlast any cheap plastic towel rack.

I bought one and installed it in my shop and I'm pleased which, you can imagine, is no easy thing to do.  The only problem is that now my wife wants one.

We have one of those, but with a weighted base so that it just sits upright on the counter.   It works great!    The only down side is when I get up early for work, and I make coffee and such, and I need a towel, the ratchet wakes my wife up.....having said that, it says more about how much of a light sleeper she is , than how loud the ratchet is....

Dave

We have one of those!  :ROFL: If your towel doesn't tear off right away, it ends up sounding like when we use to use a clothes pin to mesh a playing card with our bicycle spokes. Referring to another thread going right now.............the younger generation might ask if there is an iPhone app for that sound.  :lolb:

Jim
Title: Re: Zee's Shop Beginnings
Post by: PStechPaul on March 15, 2017, 06:49:42 AM
What about a voice-actuated paper towel dispenser?

http://bbs.homeshopmachinist.net/threads/72929-OT-Wild-Idea-That-Needs-Really-Inexpensive-Speech-Recognition

Zee, I think your first machining project should be a fancy-pantsy towel dispenser with an inertial clutch to keep the roll from exceeding a certain RPM so you can yank off a sheet without the drama and frustration of the "wholly-roller" effect..  :ROFL:
Title: Re: Zee's Shop Beginnings
Post by: Tennessee Whiskey on March 15, 2017, 04:16:01 PM
So, are we having a "forum member only" open house?

Eric
Title: Re: Zee's Shop Beginnings
Post by: crueby on March 15, 2017, 04:29:29 PM
So, are we having a "forum member only" open house?

Eric
Which bedroom is mine? Only be staying a few months....   :hellno:
Title: Re: Zee's Shop Beginnings
Post by: Jo on March 15, 2017, 05:03:27 PM
Don't think I could stay that long: my boys would miss me  :disappointed: and Zee doesn't have any castings  :hellno:

Jo
Title: Re: Zee's Shop Beginnings
Post by: steamer on March 15, 2017, 05:21:12 PM
Don't think I could stay that long: my boys would miss me  :disappointed: and Zee doesn't have any castings  :hellno:

Jo

Come on Jo!   Help a brotha out!   Take some from the back of the pile as a house warming gift! :LittleDevil:

Dave
Title: Re: Zee's Shop Beginnings
Post by: Tennessee Whiskey on March 15, 2017, 05:28:19 PM
Women   :lolb:
Eric
Title: Re: Zee's Shop Beginnings
Post by: crueby on March 15, 2017, 05:47:48 PM
Don't think I could stay that long: my boys would miss me  :disappointed: and Zee doesn't have any castings  :hellno:

Jo
But Pennsylvania was FULL of steel mills at one time, must be SOME castings left SOMEWHERE in the area...   :Lol:
Title: Re: Zee's Shop Beginnings
Post by: Tennessee Whiskey on March 15, 2017, 05:55:47 PM
No, they have all been sold to upscale modern artists: which will use them in "early industrial manufacturing " themes. However, least somebody is doing something to preserve them  :facepalm:

Eric
Title: Re: Zee's Shop Beginnings
Post by: zeeprogrammer on March 15, 2017, 09:10:14 PM
What about a voice-actuated paper towel dispenser?

It'd probably be activated by "augh!".

So, are we having a "forum member only" open house?

Perhaps a sub-set.  ;D
Perhaps not.

Which bedroom is mine? Only be staying a few months....   :hellno:

Next door.

Don't think I could stay that long: my boys would miss me  :disappointed: and Zee doesn't have any castings  :hellno:

Who said I don't have castings? Just don't get too specific.

I came home to find two young boys in the driveway with an axe.  :thinking:

Turned out the builder hired them to clear the rest of the driveway. It's a block of ice.
I'd only shoveled, could only shovel, a small path to get the cars out.

And I wish I hadn't even done that.
Title: Re: Zee's Shop Beginnings
Post by: zeeprogrammer on March 16, 2017, 11:57:30 PM
Oh wow!  :pinkelephant:
Light in the workshop!
This is perfect. Just what I wanted.
It doesn't get better than this...

(http://i605.photobucket.com/albums/tt139/zeeprogrammer/Remodel/workshoplight_zpsxnjrhepw.jpg) (http://s605.photobucket.com/user/zeeprogrammer/media/Remodel/workshoplight_zpsxnjrhepw.jpg.html)

Reminds me of the old days.  :lolb: :lolb:
Title: Re: Zee's Shop Beginnings
Post by: Doc on March 17, 2017, 02:14:20 AM
Won't be long now!
Title: Re: Zee's Shop Beginnings
Post by: Flyboy Jim on March 17, 2017, 02:31:57 AM
That looks really great Zee.............but you might want to add one more light.  :lolb:

Getting close to when you're going to have to go and try to find your lathe and mill..............or order your new ones!  :naughty:

Jim
Title: Re: Zee's Shop Beginnings
Post by: Rivergypsy on March 17, 2017, 12:24:33 PM
Looking good! Is that white stuff still outside though??  :hellno:
Title: Re: Zee's Shop Beginnings
Post by: Tennessee Whiskey on March 17, 2017, 03:52:20 PM
Be a good place for one of those antique industrial lighting fixtures, just saying. :stir:

Eric
Title: Re: Zee's Shop Beginnings
Post by: zeeprogrammer on March 17, 2017, 10:29:30 PM
Looking good! Is that white stuff still outside though??  :hellno:

Oh yes. As ice now.

Garage door was installed today.
Cabinets were delivered yesterday but they can't install. It got too cold to grout the tile in the kitchen.

Pics? Go pound sand.  ;D
Title: Re: Zee's Shop Beginnings
Post by: Tennessee Whiskey on March 17, 2017, 10:36:44 PM
Pizza tonight? What's the wine? What's the time?

Eric

Title: Re: Zee's Shop Beginnings
Post by: Walsheng on March 18, 2017, 12:37:58 AM
Oh wow!  :pinkelephant:
Light in the workshop!
This is perfect. Just what I wanted.
It doesn't get better than this...

(http://i605.photobucket.com/albums/tt139/zeeprogrammer/Remodel/workshoplight_zpsxnjrhepw.jpg) (http://s605.photobucket.com/user/zeeprogrammer/media/Remodel/workshoplight_zpsxnjrhepw.jpg.html)

Reminds me of the old days.  :lolb: :lolb:

When we finished off the shop office we spent more time looking for the "right" fixtures.  I am still shaking my head over how much they cost!
In the shop it's just a whole bunch of florescent fixtures.
What are your plans for light fixtures?

John
Title: Re: Zee's Shop Beginnings
Post by: zeeprogrammer on March 18, 2017, 11:35:43 AM
@Eric - anchovie and a red.

@John - Two four foot long LED shop lights. End-to-end with a gap, parallel to the orange wall.

I've never used that type before and the builder tells me it will 'light up' the shop.
Perhaps. But the lights will be behind me when working on the machines so l expect to add some spot lighting.
Title: Re: Zee's Shop Beginnings
Post by: crueby on March 18, 2017, 12:32:59 PM
@Eric - anchovie and a red.

@John - Two four foot long LED shop lights. End-to-end with a gap, parallel to the orange wall.

I've never used that type before and the builder tells me it will 'light up' the shop.
Perhaps. But the lights will be behind me when working on the machines so l expect to add some spot lighting.
I used to have the shop lights, found they lit up the room nicely but lacked brightness right on the work, then switched to a combination of track lights and gooseneck lights mounted by the machines, able to aim the light right where wanted better, still reflects around to light up the whole room.
Title: Re: Zee's Shop Beginnings
Post by: gerritv on March 18, 2017, 01:03:27 PM
I have 4' led lights in the ceiling but added task lighting from Ikea: http://www.ikea.com/ca/en/catalog/products/20169658/ US price is 9.95, Canadian price $14.95

A bonus is that you get 5" round cast iron weights from the bases to machine into flywheels :-)
Title: Re: Zee's Shop Beginnings
Post by: kvom on March 18, 2017, 01:07:47 PM
No paper towel dispenser for me.  I just have a couple of rolls of blue shop towel lying about in strategic locations.
Title: Re: Zee's Shop Beginnings
Post by: Flyboy Jim on March 18, 2017, 02:35:15 PM
@Eric - anchovie and a red.

@John - Two four foot long LED shop lights. End-to-end with a gap, parallel to the orange wall.

I've never used that type before and the builder tells me it will 'light up' the shop.
Perhaps. But the lights will be behind me when working on the machines so l expect to add some spot lighting.

Zee..........were it mine (which it isn't) I'd have a string right down the middle with 4 four foot LED fixtures, end to end, as a starting point. Then as Chris did...........task lighting. The nice thing about shop lighting............you can always add more in whatever direction you want after the shop is set up. When I finished out my hanger last winter I put in 4 strings of four foot LED fixtures, for a total of 24 fixtures. My shop room in the hanger, which is about the size of your shop room, I have 4 four foot fixtures, plus one at the end over my lathe and mill, plus one portable task light for the mill. One can never have enough light...........especially as one's eyes get older.  :Lol:

Jim
Title: Re: Zee's Shop Beginnings
Post by: Tennessee Whiskey on March 18, 2017, 04:51:03 PM
Anchovies, I love them. +1 on what Jim said. The older I get the more I wish it was lit up like a Colorado grow room

Eric
Title: Re: Zee's Shop Beginnings
Post by: zeeprogrammer on March 18, 2017, 05:11:18 PM
Originally I had 4 four foot shop lights. But the builder and a few other people waved me off saying it would too bright. Two would be sufficient.

Once they're in, I'll see what I have. I think I'll be okay with that.

I have two lab benches (not sure I can get both in) with built-in shop light.

Task lighting at the mill and lathe will be added. Although I'm thinking of a rolling stand with combined task light and magnifier. We'll see.

 ;D

Didn't mean to pun.
Title: Re: Zee's Shop Beginnings
Post by: 10KPete on March 18, 2017, 05:19:59 PM
We'll see.

 ;D

Didn't mean to pun.

Rriigghhhttt...... :ShakeHead:

Pete
Title: Re: Zee's Shop Beginnings
Post by: Dave Otto on March 18, 2017, 09:34:21 PM
Hi Zee
The problem I see with only one row of lights down the middle is your body is going to be casting a shadow on your benches and tools. I have a  2 tube 4ft led fixture directly over my work benches. and this gives plenty of light in these locations. I have 10, 4ft led fixtures in my shop (garage) and there are still places that could use some more light. They were all florescent fixtures that I converted to direct wire (bypass the ballast) last summer, I love the led lights. The two lights over my benches were an afterthought because of the exact reason indicated above.

If it were me, and like Pete said, its not; I would put two rows of two and place them closer to the walls so you are not dealing with shadows. These are split into two circuits so I don't have to light up the whole place unless needed. Probably not an issue for your space.

This is a shop not a den, I really don't think you can have too much light within reason. The vinyl flooring is going to suck up some of that light if it has a wood grain finish.

Ok back to my corner now. :lolb:
Dave
Title: Re: Zee's Shop Beginnings
Post by: steamer on March 18, 2017, 09:39:23 PM
What Dave Otto Said....and let me tell you ...once there's a 5 in front of your age...those shadows really suck!...

Lots of light...no I mean LOTS of light overhead, and task lights too.      Did I say LOTS!? 


Dave
Title: Re: Zee's Shop Beginnings
Post by: crueby on March 18, 2017, 09:54:11 PM
......
They were all florescent fixtures that I converted to direct wire (bypass the ballast)
.......

Dave
What led innards did you use?
Title: Re: Zee's Shop Beginnings
Post by: Dave Otto on March 18, 2017, 10:02:11 PM
These are the ones that I used; they have gone up in price. I seem to remember paying around $10.00 each for them. The amount of light they put out compared to the old florescent tubes is quit surprising; half the wattage too. I purchased 4 tubes at first and changed out a couple fixtures; I was hooked and ordered enough to upgrade all my fixtures.

https://www.earthled.com/collections/led-t8-tube-replacements-replace-your-fluorescent-t8-t10-t12-lamps-with-led/products/thinklux-led-fluorescent-replacement-tube-4-foot-18-watt-2400-lumen-high-output-ballast-bypass-dlc-qualified-shatterproof?variant=32907738383

Dave
Title: Re: Zee's Shop Beginnings
Post by: zeeprogrammer on March 18, 2017, 10:10:59 PM
Well certainly you all have me worried. But there's nothing that can't be fixed.

Keep in mind, however many lights are on the ceiling, I'll nearly always be between them and the thing I'm looking at.  ;D
Even if they're directly above the work space.

Task lighting is a must regardless.

@Dave...at this point I don't know the specifics of the ceiling lights.
Title: Re: Zee's Shop Beginnings
Post by: awJCKDup on March 18, 2017, 10:11:18 PM
I agree with Dave, at 61, I can't get enough light. By the way Dave I love the plumb bob collection.
John
Title: Re: Zee's Shop Beginnings
Post by: Walsheng on March 18, 2017, 10:16:24 PM
Sorry to have opened this lighting can o worms but I am guessing your contractor is either 43 years old or doesn't work on very small stuff.
At 64 years old I could have a room full of klieg lights and I would still have a couple of high intensity lamps on each side of my head!  And it doesn't seem like it has been that long sinse I could rebuild a watch in a closet with no lights at all.

Perpetually in the dark John
Title: Re: Zee's Shop Beginnings
Post by: 10KPete on March 18, 2017, 10:34:30 PM
I've rigged lights in about a dozen shops now, four of which were my personal spaces. I learned long ago to put the lights very close to the walls, maybe a foot from the wall. Excellent light, no shadows. Other lights in the middle of the room and then local task lighting at machines and special places. Stick with the warm white spectrum as the intense blue bit of the spectrum put out by the bright white will drive your eyes nuts. I avoided LED's until the warm whites became available.

These old eyes sure do notice the differences.....

Pete
Title: Re: Zee's Shop Beginnings
Post by: Flyboy Jim on March 18, 2017, 10:55:26 PM
Well certainly you all have me worried. But there's nothing that can't be fixed.

Keep in mind, however many lights are on the ceiling, I'll nearly always be between them and the thing I'm looking at.  ;D
Even if they're directly above the work space.

Task lighting is a must regardless.

@Dave...at this point I don't know the specifics of the ceiling lights.

You've got that right Zee! Even with all the lights I have, there are still areas without enough light.  :shrug:

If you're anything like me, you'll find that where you thought machines and benches might be, won't be where they'll actually gravitate to. Once things settle down, you can deal with fine tuning the lighting.

Jim
Title: Re: Zee's Shop Beginnings
Post by: 10KPete on March 18, 2017, 11:04:47 PM


Once things settle down, you can deal with fine tuning the lighting.

Jim

 :ThumbsUp: :ThumbsUp:

Pete
Title: Re: Zee's Shop Beginnings
Post by: zeeprogrammer on March 18, 2017, 11:23:36 PM
Excellent. I think that problem has been well illuminated.  :lolb:
Title: Re: Zee's Shop Beginnings
Post by: Dave Otto on March 19, 2017, 12:10:01 AM
Excellent. I think that problem has been well illuminated.  :lolb:

Yes it has, we have determined that you will be working in the shadows.  :lolb:


Dave
Title: Re: Zee's Shop Beginnings
Post by: Flyboy Jim on March 19, 2017, 01:48:07 AM
Excellent. I think that problem has been well illuminated.  :lolb:

Yes it has, we have determined that you will be working in the shadows.  :lolb:


Dave

But Dave..........look at the "BRIGHT"  :ROFL: side..............at least he won't be working in the dark!  :LittleDevil:

Jim
Title: Re: Zee's Shop Beginnings
Post by: zeeprogrammer on March 19, 2017, 12:15:21 PM
Excellent. I think that problem has been well illuminated.  :lolb:

Yes it has, we have determined that you will be working in the shadows.  :lolb:


 :lolb:

I'd rather be in the shadows than the spotlight.  ;D
Title: Re: Zee's Shop Beginnings
Post by: gerritv on March 19, 2017, 12:23:13 PM

I'd rather be in the shadows than the spotlight.  ;D
Spoken like a true programmer :-)
Title: Re: Zee's Shop Beginnings
Post by: Roger B on March 19, 2017, 05:56:58 PM
I agree with put the lights near the walls so they are over the benches and the machines. Lights in the middle just cast awkward shadows.
Title: Re: Zee's Shop Beginnings
Post by: zeeprogrammer on March 19, 2017, 06:33:05 PM
I agree with put the lights near the walls so they are over the benches and the machines. Lights in the middle just cast awkward shadows.

That actually brings up a point/question. So far I've talked about where the mill and lathe would go (along the west wall) but I'm not set on that yet.
Having the lathe against the wall makes sense (so far) but I'm not convinced on the mill.

In my current basement shop (such as it is), I have an L shaped work area. One leg is against (parallel to) the wall where the lathe is. The other other leg sticks out into the room and has the mill on it. This allows me to easily get behind the mill. I've found this fairly convenient particularly when tramming, cleaning, modifying, etc.

I suspect I won't know the arrangement of the machines until I have some of the other equipment in place, figure out storage and work spaces.

Then I can modify or, rather, add lighting as needed.

As to the question...any thoughts on arrangement of machines? Against a wall? In a corner? Away from walls? I'm sure many solutions are a function of what space is available, placement of doors and windows, etc. But if you had your druthers...what would you prefer?

I think the idea of lights near the walls make sense but I'm not convinced it's a solution. My head, not to mention the mill head, will cast shadows.

Task lighting will be needed no matter what the configuration of the ceiling lights.

Won't be long!
Title: Re: Zee's Shop Beginnings
Post by: crueby on March 19, 2017, 06:43:16 PM
On mill placement, one thing I have had to do a number of times was to have one end of a long bar sticking out the side, off the mill table, while milling or drilling at the end. Comes up a lot on frame rails of vehicle models. I'd want the space on both sides of the mill for a few feet of bar stock.

And on the lathe, space for a bar to stick back through the headstock.

My $0.02
Title: Re: Zee's Shop Beginnings
Post by: Walsheng on March 19, 2017, 06:58:43 PM
I agree with Crueby.
I have my lathe so stock can go through the head stock and stick out some. I can have it stick out about 6 feet although I doubt I ever would because you would need to build in some kind of support so it doesn't whip around.
I have my mill stuck into a corner and I can have parts stick off the ends of the table, right through a doorway on one end.  It also allows me to have tools mounted on the walls on each side within arms reach.  Saves a lot of steps back and forth and with a couple of bad wheels it's a big help.

As for lighting, I highly recommend it!

John
Title: Re: Zee's Shop Beginnings
Post by: zeeprogrammer on March 19, 2017, 06:59:56 PM
Thanks for the reminder about bar stock sticking out of the lathe.  :ThumbsUp:
Title: Re: Zee's Shop Beginnings
Post by: mklotz on March 19, 2017, 07:56:56 PM
If the lathe sits to the right of the mill then stock sticking out the back of the lathe spindle can be supported by a (incrementally repositionable) support mounted on the mill table.

On a more general note...

It's impossible to a priori design a shop layout because you will only learn what layout features are important to you by working in the shop and discovering what features don't work.  On top of that, as your interests change and you age, your requirements for the shop will change and what was once a perfect design must be re-worked to fit the new situation.

Sure, there are a few "always true" requirements like good lighting and an easily cleaned floor but the nuances like storage placement and organization, machine placement, etc. have to be determined evolutionarily.  I hate to use sports references but "build it and the design will come" obtains here.  Just be sure to include plenty of reorganization freedom in the original design.  You've done that - nothing is more flexible than an empty room. 

Consider obtaining some rolling tool cabinets and a heavy duty rolling table.  Being able to partially reorganize the shop layout on a short term basis is a real plus.  Short rolling drawer cabinets that can roll under a bench give you excellent, accessible drawers and can be rolled where needed.  I have one parked sideways under my work bench and it's a blessing.  I can pull the whole cabinet out (like the file drawer on a desk), open a drawer and select a tool and roll the whole thing back out of sight and do all this with one hand.

IMO, the best storage system in shops like ours is lots of shallow drawers that can carry a lot of weight and still roll easily.  It's no accident that mechanic and machinist rolling tool cabinets are designed the way they are.  Wood is pretty (I have a walnut Gerstner) but metal is thinner and stronger which means more available volume.

Just some things to think about while you're fantasizing.
Title: Re: Zee's Shop Beginnings
Post by: zeeprogrammer on March 19, 2017, 08:33:22 PM
Good points Marv and exactly what I was getting at. I won't know how to set up until I get in there and even then things will change.

I do have a couple of rolling cabinets with several drawers. The thing I can't stand about them is the top area is pretty worthless. You have to have the lid open to allow the lower drawers to open...so the lid is always open and that area becomes a messy catch all.

My intent is to disable that mechanism that locks the lower draws, keep the lid closed, and put one of my smaller cabinets on top to increase the number of drawers.
That's the intent anyway.

You did give me another thought. I have two of those wood working benches from HF. I'm thinking of putting heavy duty wheels on one for the shop. Adds height buy I'm tall anyway. The other bench will go into the garage.
Title: Re: Zee's Shop Beginnings
Post by: Art K on March 19, 2017, 11:39:04 PM
Zee,
I am an example of making due with the space I have. We added an 8 X 20 foot extension on the back of the garage. Seeing that the old shop was 8 X 12 the extra room was a godsend. But I wish I had more. The size and shape dictates where the machines are placed as well as the bench, which I put behind the lathe. If I have long stock it sticks out into the center of the room, in front of the door. Not perfect but into the wall is worse. I inherited a rolling toolbox from my dad and among other things on it I have a cast iron surface plate. With the height gauge on top all I have to do is turn around and type the tool height into the tool offset on the mill. As it is I don't have room for much else machine wise, I do have a saw I want to get set up to cut metal instead of the brown stuff and that will probably go in front of the window. I have two florescent fixtures length wise down the center of the room. One in front of the lathe the other the mill. My boss told me of a led light sale and I bought one 3 foot fixture and stuck it over the end of the other so they are at a T. Wow what a difference. I do have the two halves of the room each on their own switch, the led has a cord so I could turn it off. I'm thinkin that when the light or fixture go bad on the florescent, I will replace them with led. I'm just stating the obvious here but dont put the lathe in front of the window, just in case you throw something. :mischief:
Art
 
Title: Re: Zee's Shop Beginnings
Post by: mklotz on March 20, 2017, 12:04:21 AM
Good points Marv and exactly what I was getting at. I won't know how to set up until I get in there and even then things will change.

I do have a couple of rolling cabinets with several drawers. The thing I can't stand about them is the top area is pretty worthless. You have to have the lid open to allow the lower drawers to open...so the lid is always open and that area becomes a messy catch all.

My intent is to disable that mechanism that locks the lower draws, keep the lid closed, and put one of my smaller cabinets on top to increase the number of drawers.
That's the intent anyway.

You did give me another thought. I have two of those wood working benches from HF. I'm thinking of putting heavy duty wheels on one for the shop. Adds height buy I'm tall anyway. The other bench will go into the garage.

You need to get this type...

http://www.harborfreight.com/44-in-13-Drawer-Glossy-Red-Industrial-Roller-Cabinet-68784.html?ccdenc=eyJjb2RlIjoiMTI5OTc4MjgiLCJza3UiOiI2ODc4NCIsImlzIjoiMzM5Ljk5IiwicHJvZHVjdF9p%0D%0AZCI6Ijg1MDYifQ%3D%3D%0D%0A

of rolling cabinet.  Then put tool boxes (Gerstner, Kennedy, surface plate, etc.) on top of that.  Don't put the boxes flat on the top.  Lay some offcuts of 2 x 4 with the 4" side vertical on the roller cabinet top and stand the boxes on that.  This creates small spaces into which you can slide "stuff" that doesn't fit well elsewhere - envelopes of sandpaper, gasket material, your cookbook and diary, naughty pictures, whatever.  The boxes should be near the front of the rolling cabinet so their drawers can't be obstructed by the inevitable trash you'll lay there while searching for something in the drawers.  This will create another narrow space in the back where you can store other, odd-shaped, seldom-used stuff - squares, height gauges, thread detectives.

BTW, don't dismiss the HF rolling cabinets without looking them over first.  I've inspected them and they look pretty damn good for prices close to what I think they should cost as opposed to the silly prices for the name brands.  If Garaj Mahal had the room, I'd buy some myself.
Title: Re: Zee's Shop Beginnings
Post by: Flyboy Jim on March 20, 2017, 12:15:15 AM
Here's the chests I use that came from Home Depot: http://www.homedepot.com/p/Husky-46-in-9-Drawer-Mobile-Workbench-with-Solid-Wood-Top-Black-7440946R/206839475  I have 2 that are 46" and 3 that are 27". I also have what is basically as wooden roll around that I built a number of years ago.

As Marv said.......the Harbor Freight chests are worth a look as well.

It's great that you're able to start thinking about this stuff!  :whoohoo:

Jim
Title: Re: Zee's Shop Beginnings
Post by: zeeprogrammer on March 20, 2017, 12:17:22 AM
@Art...thanks. I like the idea of a pull-cord on a light when needed. I also don't want the lathe or mill near the window. Not just because of parts flying but also oil.

@Marv...I have one of these from HF

http://www.harborfreight.com/27-in-8-drawer-black-roller-cabinet-2-pc-combo-63026.html

Also a shorter one that I don't see in their inventory any more.

Got them on sale. I'd prefer the one you showed because of the issue with the top I'd mentioned.
But thanks for the idea of making a little space underneath the tool chest I'll put on top.

I imagine by 'naughty pictures' you mean 'engines' right?

Now...what do we mean by 'engines' eh?
Title: Re: Zee's Shop Beginnings
Post by: zeeprogrammer on March 20, 2017, 12:22:08 AM
Thanks Jim. I've been happy with HF chests and wood working benches.

Actually, I've been pretty happy with most everything I've gotten at HF. That's where I got my mill.
I knew going in that the mill would need tweaking and mods.

Just have to be careful about what you get. Things that don't get used much are okay. If you want to use something everyday...that's another story.

Just bought a couple of hardwood dollys so I can move the machines in once I get them.
I probably won't need them anymore after that so will re-purpose some of the wheels.
$15 for the dolly. Can you buy 4 heavy duty wheels for that?
Title: Re: Zee's Shop Beginnings
Post by: Flyboy Jim on March 20, 2017, 02:00:13 AM
Thanks Jim. I've been happy with HF chests and wood working benches.

Actually, I've been pretty happy with most everything I've gotten at HF. That's where I got my mill.
I knew going in that the mill would need tweaking and mods.

Just have to be careful about what you get. Things that don't get used much are okay. If you want to use something everyday...that's another story.

Just bought a couple of hardwood dollys so I can move the machines in once I get them.
I probably won't need them anymore after that so will re-purpose some of the wheels.
$15 for the dolly. Can you buy 4 heavy duty wheels for that?

Zee, you might be surprised at how much you'll use those dollys through the years. I know I have.

Jim
Title: Re: Zee's Shop Beginnings
Post by: crueby on March 20, 2017, 02:20:04 AM
Thanks Jim. I've been happy with HF chests and wood working benches.

Actually, I've been pretty happy with most everything I've gotten at HF. That's where I got my mill.
I knew going in that the mill would need tweaking and mods.

Just have to be careful about what you get. Things that don't get used much are okay. If you want to use something everyday...that's another story.

Just bought a couple of hardwood dollys so I can move the machines in once I get them.
I probably won't need them anymore after that so will re-purpose some of the wheels.
$15 for the dolly. Can you buy 4 heavy duty wheels for that?

Zee, you might be surprised at how much you'll use those dollys through the years. I know I have.

Jim
Don't the wheels on your plane work? Gotta land on the dollys?   :Lol:
Title: Re: Zee's Shop Beginnings
Post by: Flyboy Jim on March 20, 2017, 02:27:04 AM
Thanks Jim. I've been happy with HF chests and wood working benches.

Actually, I've been pretty happy with most everything I've gotten at HF. That's where I got my mill.
I knew going in that the mill would need tweaking and mods.

Just have to be careful about what you get. Things that don't get used much are okay. If you want to use something everyday...that's another story.

Just bought a couple of hardwood dollys so I can move the machines in once I get them.
I probably won't need them anymore after that so will re-purpose some of the wheels.
$15 for the dolly. Can you buy 4 heavy duty wheels for that?

Zee, you might be surprised at how much you'll use those dollys through the years. I know I have.

Jim
Don't the wheels on your plane work? Gotta land on the dollys?   :Lol:

The one I'm building doesn't have wheels yet. Come to think of it it doesn't even have landing gear yet!  :shrug:

Jim
Title: Re: Zee's Shop Beginnings
Post by: zeeprogrammer on March 20, 2017, 03:00:53 AM
Thanks Jim. I've been happy with HF chests and wood working benches.

Actually, I've been pretty happy with most everything I've gotten at HF. That's where I got my mill.
I knew going in that the mill would need tweaking and mods.

Just have to be careful about what you get. Things that don't get used much are okay. If you want to use something everyday...that's another story.

Just bought a couple of hardwood dollys so I can move the machines in once I get them.
I probably won't need them anymore after that so will re-purpose some of the wheels.
$15 for the dolly. Can you buy 4 heavy duty wheels for that?

Zee, you might be surprised at how much you'll use those dollys through the years. I know I have.

Jim
Don't the wheels on your plane work? Gotta land on the dollys?   :Lol:

The one I'm building doesn't have wheels yet. Come to think of it it doesn't even have landing gear yet!  :shrug:

Jim

You can't even call it a plane yet. Couple pieces here...couple there. It's like saying I've got flour, eggs, milk...so I must have a cake.  ;D
Finish it.  ;D

I've got 3 of those dollys. I'm thinking I can sacrifice one.
Title: Re: Zee's Shop Beginnings
Post by: Flyboy Jim on March 20, 2017, 04:07:05 AM
Thanks Jim. I've been happy with HF chests and wood working benches.

Actually, I've been pretty happy with most everything I've gotten at HF. That's where I got my mill.
I knew going in that the mill would need tweaking and mods.

Just have to be careful about what you get. Things that don't get used much are okay. If you want to use something everyday...that's another story.

Just bought a couple of hardwood dollys so I can move the machines in once I get them.
I probably won't need them anymore after that so will re-purpose some of the wheels.
$15 for the dolly. Can you buy 4 heavy duty wheels for that?

Zee, you might be surprised at how much you'll use those dollys through the years. I know I have.

Jim
Don't the wheels on your plane work? Gotta land on the dollys?   :Lol:

The one I'm building doesn't have wheels yet. Come to think of it it doesn't even have landing gear yet!  :shrug:

Jim

You can't even call it a plane yet. Couple pieces here...couple there. It's like saying I've got flour, eggs, milk...so I must have a cake.  ;D
Finish it.  ;D

I've got 3 of those dollys. I'm thinking I can sacrifice one.

I'd like to refute that................but unfortunately............. you have it exactly right!  :shrug: They aren't an airplane until they leave the ground the first time.  :whoohoo: Same for a boat............ until it's launched.

I've got 3 dollys too...............2 from Harbor Freight and one that cooked us a really nice fried oyster dinner tonight.  :LickLips:  I wonder if I got such a nice dinner because I tore myself away from doing yard work and took Ann up flying for a couple of hours this afternoon?  :naughty: It's ok........I like to do what I can to help out.  ;)

Jim
Title: Re: Zee's Shop Beginnings
Post by: steamer on March 20, 2017, 10:43:21 AM
Good points Marv and exactly what I was getting at. I won't know how to set up until I get in there and even then things will change.

I do have a couple of rolling cabinets with several drawers. The thing I can't stand about them is the top area is pretty worthless. You have to have the lid open to allow the lower drawers to open...so the lid is always open and that area becomes a messy catch all.

My intent is to disable that mechanism that locks the lower draws, keep the lid closed, and put one of my smaller cabinets on top to increase the number of drawers.
That's the intent anyway.

You did give me another thought. I have two of those wood working benches from HF. I'm thinking of putting heavy duty wheels on one for the shop. Adds height buy I'm tall anyway. The other bench will go into the garage.

You need to get this type...

http://www.harborfreight.com/44-in-13-Drawer-Glossy-Red-Industrial-Roller-Cabinet-68784.html?ccdenc=eyJjb2RlIjoiMTI5OTc4MjgiLCJza3UiOiI2ODc4NCIsImlzIjoiMzM5Ljk5IiwicHJvZHVjdF9p%0D%0AZCI6Ijg1MDYifQ%3D%3D%0D%0A

of rolling cabinet.  Then put tool boxes (Gerstner, Kennedy, surface plate, etc.) on top of that.  Don't put the boxes flat on the top.  Lay some offcuts of 2 x 4 with the 4" side vertical on the roller cabinet top and stand the boxes on that.  This creates small spaces into which you can slide "stuff" that doesn't fit well elsewhere - envelopes of sandpaper, gasket material, your cookbook and diary, naughty pictures, whatever.  The boxes should be near the front of the rolling cabinet so their drawers can't be obstructed by the inevitable trash you'll lay there while searching for something in the drawers.  This will create another narrow space in the back where you can store other, odd-shaped, seldom-used stuff - squares, height gauges, thread detectives.

BTW, don't dismiss the HF rolling cabinets without looking them over first.  I've inspected them and they look pretty damn good for prices close to what I think they should cost as opposed to the silly prices for the name brands.  If Garaj Mahal had the room, I'd buy some myself.

I have a Craftsman roll around very similar to this.    It's my mobile bench between machines.   I keep my hand tools in it as well.   It kinda works, but organize it well to maximize the space .
I put a plywood top on it that fits in the well.

Dave
Title: Re: Zee's Shop Beginnings
Post by: Flyboy Jim on March 20, 2017, 01:11:12 PM

Just bought a couple of hardwood dollys so I can move the machines in once I get them.


Zee.............I grabbed this from an earlier post of yours. Have you decided for sure on what machines you're going to be getting? 

Jim
Title: Re: Zee's Shop Beginnings
Post by: zeeprogrammer on March 20, 2017, 10:44:09 PM

Zee.............I grabbed this from an earlier post of yours. Have you decided for sure on what machines you're going to be getting? 

I'm never sure until the deed is done.  ;D

Naturally, the final decision won't be made until I write the check. But front runner (and I think winner) is the

PM-25MV Mill

and

PM1030V Lathe

At some point...one just has to make a decision...right or wrong. It's like buying a house or car.
But in this case, I'm not expecting buyer's remorse.  ;D

Sort of reminds me when I got married. It wasn't until later that I realized...YEAH! RIGHT! I DID GOOD!  :lolb:
Title: Re: Zee's Shop Beginnings
Post by: Tennessee Whiskey on March 21, 2017, 12:21:38 AM
I find nothing wrong with that decision. The machine one that is. The wife one must've been good also to keep you around  :mischief:

Eric
Title: Re: Zee's Shop Beginnings
Post by: Jo on March 21, 2017, 07:15:05 AM
Sort of reminds me when I got married. It wasn't until later that I realized...YEAH! RIGHT! I DID GOOD!  :lolb:

 :thinking:

I find nothing wrong with that decision. The machine one that is. The wife one must've been good also to keep you around  :mischief:

Eric

Model Engineer tolerant women seem to be much more common than model engineer tolerant men  :noidea:

Jo
Title: Re: Zee's Shop Beginnings
Post by: zeeprogrammer on March 21, 2017, 09:57:54 AM
Sort of reminds me when I got married. It wasn't until later that I realized...YEAH! RIGHT! I DID GOOD!  :lolb:

 :thinking:

I find nothing wrong with that decision. The machine one that is. The wife one must've been good also to keep you around  :mischief:

Eric

Model Engineer tolerant women seem to be much more common than model engineer tolerant men  :noidea:

Jo

If you can call one common.  ;D

I was in contact with PM. No real answer on using a 5C collet chuck. Can be done but with modification.
Suggestion was to go to the 1127 (has cam lock) but that's another grand.
Unless I come into some good money I'll stick with the 1030.
Once I have more experience and nerve I can think about getting/modifying a collet chuck for the 1030.
Title: Re: Zee's Shop Beginnings
Post by: gerritv on March 21, 2017, 10:59:14 AM
Zee, if you really think you need 5C then this is an option (http://www.littlemachineshop.com/products/product_view.php?ProductID=3047): Plain back so you buy a backing plate to mount it on the spindle. You machine the plate to fit the back of the collet chuck, removing runout in the process.

Alternatively go with ER40 chuck (http://www.littlemachineshop.com/products/product_view.php?ProductID=5452&category=-421559299), same idea.

Gerrit
Title: Re: Zee's Shop Beginnings
Post by: zeeprogrammer on March 21, 2017, 11:36:05 AM
Thanks Gerrit!  :ThumbsUp:

It's machining that backing plate that has me worried. But that's due to my inexperience.
Still...no problem to give it a go. If I mess up, I can try again.
Hopefully the usual pattern of 3rd try is charm will hold.  ;D
Title: Re: Zee's Shop Beginnings
Post by: kvom on March 21, 2017, 11:49:29 AM
have one end of a long bar sticking out the side, off the mill table, while milling or drilling at the end.

And on the lathe, space for a bar to stick back through the headstock.

My $0.02

On Sherline gear that's not very long.   ;D

Some people would argue that stock sticking out of lathe can be dangerous without a support, but I confess to doing so from time to time.
Title: Re: Zee's Shop Beginnings
Post by: Walsheng on March 21, 2017, 11:59:09 AM
Thanks Gerrit!  :ThumbsUp:

It's machining that backing plate that has me worried. But that's due to my inexperience.
Still...no problem to give it a go. If I mess up, I can try again.
Hopefully the usual pattern of 3rd try is charm will hold.  ;D

It's pretty simple to screw the backing plate on, machine the shoulder and drill and tap 3 holes.

John
Title: Re: Zee's Shop Beginnings
Post by: crueby on March 21, 2017, 12:32:34 PM
have one end of a long bar sticking out the side, off the mill table, while milling or drilling at the end.

And on the lathe, space for a bar to stick back through the headstock.

My $0.02

On Sherline gear that's not very long.   ;D

Some people would argue that stock sticking out of lathe can be dangerous without a support, but I confess to doing so from time to time.
True! On a sherline lathe it can only be 3/8" diameter, but long as you like as long as you can support and control the whip. For the mill, I've had 3 or 4 foot parts out the side a number of times, the end supported on an adjustable bar.
Title: Re: Zee's Shop Beginnings
Post by: Flyboy Jim on March 21, 2017, 01:04:20 PM
have one end of a long bar sticking out the side, off the mill table, while milling or drilling at the end.

And on the lathe, space for a bar to stick back through the headstock.

My $0.02

On Sherline gear that's not very long.   ;D

Some people would argue that stock sticking out of lathe can be dangerous without a support, but I confess to doing so from time to time.
True! On a sherline lathe it can only be 3/8" diameter, but long as you like as long as you can support and control the whip. For the mill, I've had 3 or 4 foot parts out the side a number of times, the end supported on an adjustable bar.

Or a person could always upgrade to one of these "bad boys": http://glockcnc.com/#!/New-for-Sherline-Lathe-Headstock-with-MT3-bore-&-Jaw-Chuck-Plate/p/45225617/category=8597973 That would give a person a 0.8" through bore.  ;) Also 5C collet chuck capability!

What do you mean "thread creep"!  :lolb: Well only a little bit!

Jim
Title: Re: Zee's Shop Beginnings
Post by: crueby on March 21, 2017, 01:11:12 PM
have one end of a long bar sticking out the side, off the mill table, while milling or drilling at the end.

And on the lathe, space for a bar to stick back through the headstock.

My $0.02

On Sherline gear that's not very long.   ;D

Some people would argue that stock sticking out of lathe can be dangerous without a support, but I confess to doing so from time to time.
True! On a sherline lathe it can only be 3/8" diameter, but long as you like as long as you can support and control the whip. For the mill, I've had 3 or 4 foot parts out the side a number of times, the end supported on an adjustable bar.

Or a person could always upgrade to one of these "bad boys": http://glockcnc.com/#!/New-for-Sherline-Lathe-Headstock-with-MT3-bore-&-Jaw-Chuck-Plate/p/45225617/category=8597973 (http://glockcnc.com/#!/New-for-Sherline-Lathe-Headstock-with-MT3-bore-&-Jaw-Chuck-Plate/p/45225617/category=8597973) That would give a person a 0.8" through bore.  ;) Also 5C collet chuck capability!

What do you mean "thread creep"!  :lolb: Well only a little bit!

Jim
Quite a selection of headstocks!


Did you see this item on their headstock category page?
http://glockcnc.com/#!/Imperial-Star-Destroyer-Late-model-good-condition/p/52036615/category=8597973



Title: Re: Zee's Shop Beginnings
Post by: Flyboy Jim on March 21, 2017, 01:19:29 PM

Quite a selection of headstocks!


Did you see this item on their headstock category page?
http://glockcnc.com/#!/Imperial-Star-Destroyer-Late-model-good-condition/p/52036615/category=8597973

I bet they'd drop the price with a cash offer!  ;)
Title: Re: Zee's Shop Beginnings
Post by: gerritv on March 21, 2017, 07:13:15 PM
Thanks Gerrit!  :ThumbsUp:

It's machining that backing plate that has me worried. But that's due to my inexperience.
Still...no problem to give it a go. If I mess up, I can try again.
Hopefully the usual pattern of 3rd try is charm will hold.  ;D
I did my first one a month or so ago to mount a BSA 4 jaw. There is usually lots of meat on the backplate to do makeovers. I used a very sharp pointy tool and placed the cross slide at an angle so 1 graduation moved in only .0005". Lots of fitting attempts at the end but it ended with needing to tap the chuck onto the backplate. You don't need much of a ridge to hold the chuck.

Do you know what spindle thread or other mount is on the PM, it doesn't say much on the page.
Title: Re: Zee's Shop Beginnings
Post by: Tennessee Whiskey on March 21, 2017, 07:33:07 PM
That's what I want to know also Gerrit, what's on the spindle nose  :thinking: :shrug:
Eric
Title: Re: Zee's Shop Beginnings
Post by: zeeprogrammer on March 21, 2017, 09:34:55 PM
Do you know what spindle thread or other mount is on the PM, it doesn't say much on the page.

That's what I want to know also Gerrit, what's on the spindle nose

? Spindle Mounting System is Direct Mount. Not sure what you all are asking.

http://www.machinetoolonline.com/PM1030.html

Depending on what you search for...if you find a PrecisionMathews site...it may be old. The one I saw was last updated 2010.
Also, when I corresponded with Matt...he'd said something about a lathe coming that was the same as one he currently offers but would have cam lock.
I assume features may change.
Title: Re: Zee's Shop Beginnings
Post by: Flyboy Jim on March 22, 2017, 02:08:27 AM
Do you know what spindle thread or other mount is on the PM, it doesn't say much on the page.

That's what I want to know also Gerrit, what's on the spindle nose

? Spindle Mounting System is Direct Mount. Not sure what you all are asking.

http://www.machinetoolonline.com/PM1030.html

Depending on what you search for...if you find a PrecisionMathews site...it may be old. The one I saw was last updated 2010.
Also, when I corresponded with Matt...he'd said something about a lathe coming that was the same as one he currently offers but would have cam lock.
I assume features may change.

Zee........I saw your post from earlier about the PM1127 having camloc chuck. It doesn't indicate that on the spec sheet. I'm wondering if the next batch will have it. That would be nice. The PM-1228 LB has camloc. The only drawback of the camloc chuck is that it costs an additional $749.........ouch!

Jim

Title: Re: Zee's Shop Beginnings
Post by: gerritv on March 22, 2017, 03:15:46 AM
Zee, if you are seriously thinking of that particular lathe then get them to provide you with a manual. The mounting style of the chuck impacts the cost of adding things such as collet chucks or even buying other chucks should the need arise.
Direct mount can mean a lot of different things.

Gerrit
Title: Re: Zee's Shop Beginnings
Post by: 10KPete on March 22, 2017, 03:56:08 AM
I am also concerned with the spindle nose. It really impacts all the tooling variations you might want to mount there!

Pete
Title: Re: Zee's Shop Beginnings
Post by: zeeprogrammer on March 22, 2017, 10:24:04 AM
Zee........I saw your post from earlier about the PM1127 having camloc chuck. It doesn't indicate that on the spec sheet. I'm wondering if the next batch will have it. That would be nice. The PM-1228 LB has camloc. The only drawback of the camloc chuck is that it costs an additional $749.........ouch!

That was my understanding. The next batch of PM1127 has a camloc. (But I could be wrong). And yes, $749 = ouch.

Gerrit and Pete...what other mounting possibilities are there? camlock, threaded, direct mount (which I take to mean bolted on)?
I'll try to get confirmation from PM.

As for tooling options...(recalling I'm really a newbie at this)...all I think about is a 3-jaw, 4-jaw, 5C collet chuck, and plate. What else?

Thanks. This is very interesting.
Title: Re: Zee's Shop Beginnings
Post by: 10KPete on March 22, 2017, 03:09:47 PM
Yesterday I emailed Quality Machine Tools about the spindle nose on the PM1022V. He responded this morning saying that the lathe has a three hole flange on it and that chucks, or other attachments, have three studs.

Why the heck the literature doesn't just say it's a flange mount, and maybe even give the BC and stud size, is beyond me.

So there's the answer, folks.  Very easy to find out.....

Pete
Title: Re: Zee's Shop Beginnings
Post by: Flyboy Jim on March 22, 2017, 03:15:54 PM
Yesterday I emailed Quality Machine Tools about the spindle nose on the PM1022V. He responded this morning saying that the lathe has a three hole flange on it and that chucks, or other attachments, have three studs.

Why the heck the literature doesn't just say it's a flange mount, and maybe even give the BC and stud size, is beyond me.

So there's the answer, folks.  Very easy to find out.....

Pete

So would that flange then have a boss on it to locate the chuck?

Jim
Title: Re: Zee's Shop Beginnings
Post by: 10KPete on March 22, 2017, 03:19:19 PM
I would assume so, Jim. That's the usual way.

Pete
Title: Re: Zee's Shop Beginnings
Post by: Jo on March 22, 2017, 03:42:43 PM
Let's talk flanges and nuts :embarassed: Zee

If the Lathe designer has been using their noddle then what you have is a chuck which has three studs in the back on which go three nuts to hold the chuck in place. The holes in the flange will be big enough for the studs with their nuts to go through without having to take off the nuts every time. This is achieved by a simple disc that goes behind the flange which has three curved slots. This allows the studs and their nuts to go through, rotate the disc and tighten the nuts  ;) Each chuck has and keeps its own nuts.

If the designer is a cheap skate/does not really know what he is doing >:( then there is no rotating disc and he expects you to get your fingers in behind the flange in that small gap to undo the nuts, remove them and position them in place back in place before doing them up again :facepalm:

Sadly most Chinese lathe manufacturers do not employ designers with any noddle  :ShakeHead: If you have big fingers you might need a camlock.

Jo
Title: Re: Zee's Shop Beginnings
Post by: gerritv on March 22, 2017, 04:01:25 PM
get the manual, if it doesn't contain this information in some detail then there is an indication of future 'fun'.

The Grizzly G0602 has an uncommon spindle thread, but there are 2 sources for backplates. I knew this before buying my used King KC1022ML by reading the manual for it and the equivalent G0602. If I only had the King manual I would be wondering about lots of things, it is not very good while the Grizzly one is excellent.
Title: Re: Zee's Shop Beginnings
Post by: 10KPete on March 22, 2017, 05:49:49 PM
Pictures do tell all! Thanks Jo. Just one question about that setup: Do the nuts need to be tightened/loosened with a wrench or does the ring have enough 'cam' to it?

Pete
Title: Re: Zee's Shop Beginnings
Post by: Jo on March 22, 2017, 06:29:26 PM
Pictures do tell all! Thanks Jo. Just one question about that setup: Do the nuts need to be tightened/loosened with a wrench or does the ring have enough 'cam' to it?

Pete

The ring is flat: Once the ring is turned you need to nip up the nuts with a spanner. The ring is just acting as a glorified washer to spread the load ;)

Jo
Title: Re: Zee's Shop Beginnings
Post by: 10KPete on March 22, 2017, 06:38:24 PM
Thanks Jo!  That's about a close to a Camloc as one can get without spending the big money. It looks to be much better than a screw-on for running in reverse.

Pete
Title: Re: Zee's Shop Beginnings
Post by: Dave Otto on March 22, 2017, 07:01:48 PM
That is the same system that is on my Weiler Tool Room lathe. There is a DIN standard for it, I would have to look to see what it is though. It does have a short taper that needs to lock up at the same time it pulls up to flange. I made two back plates when I purchased my Bison 3 and 6 jaw chucks; that was a fun little exercise. Bison didn't offer back plates that would fit my lathe.


Dave
Title: Re: Zee's Shop Beginnings
Post by: zeeprogrammer on March 22, 2017, 09:12:14 PM
Let's talk flanges and nuts :embarassed: Zee

If the Lathe designer has been using their noddle then what you have is a chuck which has three studs in the back on which go three nuts to hold the chuck in place. The holes in the flange will be big enough for the studs with their nuts to go through without having to take off the nuts every time. This is achieved by a simple disc that goes behind the flange which has three curved slots. This allows the studs and their nuts to go through, rotate the disc and tighten the nuts  ;) Each chuck has and keeps its own nuts.

Cool idea! I'll have to check.

If the designer is a cheap skate/does not really know what he is doing >:( then there is no rotating disc and he expects you to get your fingers in behind the flange in that small gap to undo the nuts, remove them and position them in place back in place before doing them up again :facepalm:

Sadly most Chinese lathe manufacturers do not employ designers with any noddle  :ShakeHead: If you have big fingers you might need a camlock.

You are very kind. I have fat fingers.

get the manual, if it doesn't contain this information in some detail then there is an indication of future 'fun'.

I couldn't find one on-line. Sent a message to Matt asking about the flange.

Regarding the flange...is it possible to modify the existing flange for slots? I really like Jo's idea.
That's been the worst part of working on my mini-mill. Always dropping nuts.
Title: Re: Zee's Shop Beginnings
Post by: crueby on March 22, 2017, 09:25:17 PM
...
That's been the worst part of working on my mini-mill. Always dropping nuts.
Hope its JUST the mill with that problem...   :ROFL:
Title: Re: Zee's Shop Beginnings
Post by: zeeprogrammer on March 22, 2017, 09:49:05 PM
...
That's been the worst part of working on my mini-mill. Always dropping nuts.
Hope its JUST the mill with that problem...   :ROFL:

Oops. Mini-lathe.

I got milling on my mind.  ;D
Title: Re: Zee's Shop Beginnings
Post by: zeeprogrammer on March 23, 2017, 09:12:51 PM
I sent an email to Matt at PM asking if the spindle mount flange was slotted.

Here's what I got...

"Yes it is slotted, you don’t have to take the nuts all the way off, just loosen them about 1 turn."

 :pinkelephant:

I think I'm sold.

Now I'll wait and see what else my fine friends come up with.  ;D
Title: Re: Zee's Shop Beginnings
Post by: Flyboy Jim on March 24, 2017, 01:58:56 AM
I sent an email to Matt at PM asking if the spindle mount flange was slotted.

Here's what I got...

"Yes it is slotted, you don’t have to take the nuts all the way off, just loosen them about 1 turn."

 :pinkelephant:

I think I'm sold.

Now I'll wait and see what else my fine friends come up with.  ;D

I'm liking the sounds of that Zee. I've heard horror stories of how hard it is to get them bolts threaded into a chuck. So anyway it would seem like a 5C collet chuck, with the same bolt pattern, would go on pretty easy.

Jim
Title: Re: Zee's Shop Beginnings
Post by: kvom on March 24, 2017, 12:59:00 PM
My lathe has a D1-3 camlock spindle, and it's an excellent system for precise registration of chucks. Although I normally swap between the 6-jaw and collet chucks most frequently, I have 3 others plus a faceplate for other situations.  Just my .02.
Title: Re: Zee's Shop Beginnings
Post by: zeeprogrammer on March 26, 2017, 10:29:39 PM
More progress and some good news.

Here's the outside of the house so far. We were warned the siding fellow is really slow...and he is...but he's doing a great job.

(http://i605.photobucket.com/albums/tt139/zeeprogrammer/Remodel/a_house_zpswcdcgnpr.jpg) (http://s605.photobucket.com/user/zeeprogrammer/media/Remodel/a_house_zpswcdcgnpr.jpg.html)

A view of the kitchen. They got templates for the counter tops the other day. The sink will be a farm sink.

(http://i605.photobucket.com/albums/tt139/zeeprogrammer/Remodel/a_kitchen_zpscsifqhia.jpg) (http://s605.photobucket.com/user/zeeprogrammer/media/Remodel/a_kitchen_zpscsifqhia.jpg.html)

A view from the kitchen into what was the dining room. Now part of it is a butler pantry. To the left of that is T's office.
To the right is the living room. We've never used it much so it's being turned into the dining room. Has enough space for a small parlor or sitting area.

(http://i605.photobucket.com/albums/tt139/zeeprogrammer/Remodel/a_butler_zpsrq0ek3pd.jpg) (http://s605.photobucket.com/user/zeeprogrammer/media/Remodel/a_butler_zpsrq0ek3pd.jpg.html)

We're reusing almost all of the old cabinets from the kitchen. This is the utility room looking towards the old kitchen sink.
The shop is to the right of the kitchen sink.

(http://i605.photobucket.com/albums/tt139/zeeprogrammer/Remodel/a_utility_zpsiggyvtaw.jpg) (http://s605.photobucket.com/user/zeeprogrammer/media/Remodel/a_utility_zpsiggyvtaw.jpg.html)

So the good news...floors should be done sometime next week including the office.
Even better, I found out they'll be asphalting the driveway towards the end of April. I thought it would be end of May.
This is good because I need the driveway in order to get the machines in.

Sorry Kim. It'll still be a while before I'm making parts. Have to prep the machines. Get the shop set up.
Help T with new garden.  :'(

But someday! Someday!
Title: Re: Zee's Shop Beginnings
Post by: Kim on March 26, 2017, 10:52:51 PM

Well, have fun in your garden Zee!  ::)  You've got to do what you've got to do to keep peace in the family.  That's the MOST important!  :ThumbsUp:

The renovation looks like its coming along quite well so  I'm sure you'll get some shop time soon!


Kim
Title: Re: Zee's Shop Beginnings
Post by: gerritv on March 27, 2017, 03:25:31 AM
Take heart, it will happen. And you can play knowing all the other stuff is done.

I spent last summer and fall on creating a pond/waterfall and finishing the half f the basement that is not my metal shop. I have to build a large deck this spring but the rest is done, done, done. so no restrictions on hobby time.

You won't know yourself once you get started on the hobbies.
Title: Re: Zee's Shop Beginnings
Post by: zeeprogrammer on March 28, 2017, 12:32:41 AM
Thanks guys.

Shop floor is in!!!

Another coat of paint and window trimming and it's done.

(http://i605.photobucket.com/albums/tt139/zeeprogrammer/Remodel/shop_floor_1_zpsm6deavjh.jpg) (http://s605.photobucket.com/user/zeeprogrammer/media/Remodel/shop_floor_1_zpsm6deavjh.jpg.html)

And a shot towards the all important old kitchen sink with hot water butler for my instant coffee!

(http://i605.photobucket.com/albums/tt139/zeeprogrammer/Remodel/shop_floor_2_zpsqjx9h08i.jpg) (http://s605.photobucket.com/user/zeeprogrammer/media/Remodel/shop_floor_2_zpsqjx9h08i.jpg.html)

 :whoohoo:

Oo. And lights. Need the lights.
Title: Re: Zee's Shop Beginnings
Post by: crueby on March 28, 2017, 12:44:00 AM
Wow - looking good!
Title: Re: Zee's Shop Beginnings
Post by: Walsheng on March 28, 2017, 12:47:46 AM
Looks great!
What are you using for heat?  Or are you just going to work fast enough to generate your own heat!

John
Title: Re: Zee's Shop Beginnings
Post by: Tennessee Whiskey on March 28, 2017, 12:49:42 AM
Looks like an old New England shop floor to me

Eric
Title: Re: Zee's Shop Beginnings
Post by: Dave Otto on March 28, 2017, 01:04:53 AM
Looks great Zee! I bet that you are pretty pleased with that.


Dave
Title: Re: Zee's Shop Beginnings
Post by: zeeprogrammer on March 28, 2017, 01:12:20 AM
Thanks all. Yeah I'm pretty excited.

Heat and A/C comes from the ceiling. The new furnace is just on the other side of the north wall.
I can't say I'm real happy about that. We'll have to see.
Air comes out near the windows and the return is near the door (on the ceiling).

How it gets to my feet I have no idea.  ;D

The bummer is...in a couple of weeks all the stuff from the upstairs goes into the shop (and other rooms) so that the upstairs carpeting and baseboard work can be done.
So it's after that I'll get the shop back.

Eric...possibly New England. Had it been pine with loads of knots...I might have felt I was back in the Ozarks.  :lolb:
Title: Re: Zee's Shop Beginnings
Post by: Doc on March 28, 2017, 01:13:59 AM
Wow everything looks like it's coming together and NICE!!
Title: Re: Zee's Shop Beginnings
Post by: b.lindsey on March 28, 2017, 01:50:53 AM
Things are looking great Zee. I haven't been able to check in as much in the last week and a lot of progress has been made since I last looked in. I like what you and T have done.

Bill
Title: Re: Zee's Shop Beginnings
Post by: Walsheng on March 28, 2017, 02:03:41 AM
Looks like an old New England shop floor to me

Eric

The shop I worked in 40+ years ago (in New England) had a shop floor that looked like that.  It was hard yellow pine and just oiled.
Great on the feet.
I have a cement floor now and some nice heavy rubber mats in front of the machines help keep your feet warm.

John
Title: Re: Zee's Shop Beginnings
Post by: Flyboy Jim on March 28, 2017, 03:02:42 AM
Looks great Zee. I'll be watching to see how the floor works out for you.............I've thought about doing the same thing to my shop floor. My walls are your basic "hanger white", but after seeing your room I may get a little more creative.

Jim
Title: Re: Zee's Shop Beginnings
Post by: Tennessee Whiskey on March 30, 2017, 01:40:39 PM
If I'm correct, your new lathe has an MT 4 in the headstock. If this is true something like this maybe the answer to a collet chuck.

http://m.ebay.com/itm/280782684861?_trkparms=aid=222007&algo=SIC.MBE&ao=1&asc=20161006002618&meid=2663bceba0274d188332051189875131&pid=100694&rk=8&rkt=24&sd=122411784391&_trksid=p2385738.c100694.m4598&_mwBanner=1

Eric
Title: Re: Zee's Shop Beginnings
Post by: wagnmkr on March 30, 2017, 02:23:23 PM
I have had that exact one for a few years, only MT3 instead of MT4. Works fine and did all I asked of it.

Tom
Title: Re: Zee's Shop Beginnings
Post by: gerritv on March 30, 2017, 04:41:57 PM
If I'm correct, your new lathe has an MT 4 in the headstock. If this is true something like this maybe the answer to a collet chuck.

http://m.ebay.com/itm/280782684861?_trkparms=aid=222007&algo=SIC.MBE&ao=1&asc=20161006002618&meid=2663bceba0274d188332051189875131&pid=100694&rk=8&rkt=24&sd=122411784391&_trksid=p2385738.c100694.m4598&_mwBanner=1

Eric

I am successfully using a ER32 version of this on my 1022. I use ER32's on my horizontal mill and didn't want to find the $ for an ER40 set as well. The only issue with this solution is that you need to make a drawbar, and when that is in place you loose the ability to run stock through the spindle.
It is of course much much better than not having a collet chuck and is a lower cost of entry.

For me it is now a temporary solution, at some point I will go the LMS bolt-onto-backplate version.

Gerrit
Title: Re: Zee's Shop Beginnings
Post by: gerritv on March 30, 2017, 04:45:27 PM
Quote
The bummer is...in a couple of weeks all the stuff from the upstairs goes into the shop (and other rooms) so that the upstairs carpeting and baseboard work can be done.
That gives you a couple of weeks to get your stuff in first! You need to practice your critical path skills on this one :-) MS Project with drag/drop of tasks and lots of over laps :-)

Gerrit
Title: Re: Zee's Shop Beginnings
Post by: Tennessee Whiskey on March 30, 2017, 07:03:45 PM
Yup, as Gerrit pointed out there are some drawbacks, however, an alternative solution. I just clicked on that one, but, they are available in most ER sizes.

Eric
Title: Re: Zee's Shop Beginnings
Post by: zeeprogrammer on March 31, 2017, 11:46:38 AM
Thanks. Yes MT#4.

MS Project. That would be a bit like taking work home.    :hellno:
Title: Re: Zee's Shop Beginnings
Post by: zeeprogrammer on April 01, 2017, 12:42:27 PM
Counter tops got installed.

(http://i605.photobucket.com/albums/tt139/zeeprogrammer/Remodel/1_Kitchena_zpsm0jykejw.jpg) (http://s605.photobucket.com/user/zeeprogrammer/media/Remodel/1_Kitchena_zpsm0jykejw.jpg.html)

Here's a couple of shots showing what we did with the old kitchen cabinets and counters.
This is a shot from what was the old garage (now a master bedroom and bath) into the hallway.
The hallway used to be the laundry and leads from the family room to the utility room, shop, and new garage.
Builder screwed up. You can't open the wall cabinet doors without interference but he says he'll fix.

(http://i605.photobucket.com/albums/tt139/zeeprogrammer/Remodel/1_HallwayA_zps4f17pogl.jpg) (http://s605.photobucket.com/user/zeeprogrammer/media/Remodel/1_HallwayA_zps4f17pogl.jpg.html)

This is from the utility room towards the old kitchen sink just outside the shop which is to the right.
Washer/Dryer should get installed next week.

(http://i605.photobucket.com/albums/tt139/zeeprogrammer/Remodel/1_UtilityA_zpsyzdz8cld.jpg) (http://s605.photobucket.com/user/zeeprogrammer/media/Remodel/1_UtilityA_zpsyzdz8cld.jpg.html)

I screwed up.  :facepalm: I didn't realize the utility room was so big and I might've gotten an extra foot, if not two, for the shop.
I made a worse mistake and mentioned this to T.
It's apparent she's a bit jealous of the size of the shop as it is.  ::)
Title: Re: Zee's Shop Beginnings
Post by: steamer on April 01, 2017, 01:25:01 PM
Love the kitchen!   

Dave
Title: Re: Zee's Shop Beginnings
Post by: gerritv on April 01, 2017, 01:39:34 PM
I feel at home already and haven't even visited yet :-)
The kitchen looks suitable for a cooking party!

Gerrit
Title: Re: Zee's Shop Beginnings
Post by: crueby on April 01, 2017, 02:22:31 PM
Nice kitchen! The shop elves are gonna be lovin that!
Title: Re: Zee's Shop Beginnings
Post by: zeeprogrammer on April 01, 2017, 02:55:55 PM
Thanks. Any time we've had family over, everyone was in the kitchen. You may as well call it the kitlivfam or famkitch.
It was quite crowded in the old kitchen when the kids and beaus arrived.
The daughters enjoy cooking too and would always be in the kitchen with T.
And the beaus, like me, are happy to be in the same room with the 'women'.

Might have something to do with the food though. I'm thinking my slapped red hand is a clue to that.

Knowing everyone congregates in the kitchen is why we felt we could convert the old living room into a dining and sitting area. The old living room was underused.
The old dining room will be T's office. Leads out to the garden.

No one has to go through my shop to get anywhere!  :pinkelephant:

All by design.  ;D

Title: Re: Zee's Shop Beginnings
Post by: Don1966 on April 01, 2017, 04:57:15 PM
Awesome Zee and I like the kitchen lights that's what I have in my kitchen.  :ThumbsUp:


Don
Title: Re: Zee's Shop Beginnings
Post by: Tennessee Whiskey on April 01, 2017, 05:13:10 PM
Boy, T and I are going to have a blast cooking in that kitchen when I come to visit. +1 on the kitchen gathering. I once thought it was because I was so entertaining, then I realized they were just hungry and thirsty  :lolb:. Looking great old boy

Eric
Title: Re: Zee's Shop Beginnings
Post by: scc on April 01, 2017, 05:47:16 PM
It's all looking lovely Zee, not long now and you can chill and really enjoy it.         Terry
Title: Re: Zee's Shop Beginnings
Post by: zeeprogrammer on April 03, 2017, 11:55:08 PM
Bad day.

Not one thing. Just that kind of day where everything seems to come together and you say 'crap'.

Crown molding not right.
Nails everywhere.
Constant interruptions at work.
Microwave finally gave out.
Spilled my drink.
Stubbed my toe.
Blew a sock.
Got no ice.
Found a zit.
Don't know why I have this bruise.
Ran out of oatmeal.
Poked myself in the eye.
Found out someone is trying to scam my social security.
Stepped on a Dorito chip that had escaped.

Just little crap.
Adds up.

My apologies. Just a little life rant.  :cussing:

At this point I generally look for a silver lining.
Stinking Hoppie!  :pinkelephant:

Crap. Out of ice.
Title: Re: Zee's Shop Beginnings
Post by: Tennessee Whiskey on April 03, 2017, 11:57:51 PM
Neat, extra dry  :mischief:

Eric
Title: Re: Zee's Shop Beginnings
Post by: 90LX_Notch on April 04, 2017, 12:16:20 AM
I've been silently following this thread and waiting for the completion to congratulate you.  I saw your bad day post and figured that it is time to break my silence.  Your silver lining is that you are getting a great shop in the end.  I'm envious Zee.  I'll be a basement shop dweller until  the day I die.

-Bob
Title: Re: Zee's Shop Beginnings
Post by: Walsheng on April 04, 2017, 12:49:45 AM
Sounds like the kind of day you worry about taking a leak!
Kitchen looks great.  We went through that while thing 20 years ago and I still have the scars (mental scars-never again.)
It will be worth it in the long run.

John
Title: Re: Zee's Shop Beginnings
Post by: crueby on April 04, 2017, 01:17:47 AM
That kind of day makes you just want to crawl back into bed at noon.
Title: Re: Zee's Shop Beginnings
Post by: zeeprogrammer on April 04, 2017, 01:40:03 AM
Thanks.

Yes, it will all be worth it.

But the biggie today was being out of ice.  ;D

Well, actually, the biggie is someone trying to scam my social security. I have no patience with certain thieves.

I say 'certain' because I do have some leeway for the desperate - I wouldn't call them thieves.

But these people are not desperate. They are thieves.

Anyone remember D&D?
Title: Re: Zee's Shop Beginnings
Post by: crueby on April 04, 2017, 02:15:23 AM
Thanks.

Yes, it will all be worth it.

But the biggie today was being out of ice.  ;D

Well, actually, the biggie is someone trying to scam my social security. I have no patience with certain thieves.

I say 'certain' because I do have some leeway for the desperate - I wouldn't call them thieves.

But these people are not desperate. They are thieves.

Anyone remember D&D?
Drunk and Disorderly or Dungeons and Dragons?


And I hope you mig welded the thieves into a cell.
Title: Re: Zee's Shop Beginnings
Post by: Flyboy Jim on April 04, 2017, 03:13:52 AM
Thanks.

Yes, it will all be worth it.

But the biggie today was being out of ice.  ;D

Well, actually, the biggie is someone trying to scam my social security. I have no patience with certain thieves.

I say 'certain' because I do have some leeway for the desperate - I wouldn't call them thieves.

But these people are not desperate. They are thieves.

Anyone remember D&D?
Drunk and Disorderly or Dungeons and Dragons?


And I hope you mig welded the thieves into a cell.

I was thinking "Dumb & Dumber"!

Jim
Title: Re: Zee's Shop Beginnings
Post by: philjoe5 on April 04, 2017, 03:23:15 AM
Great looking kitchen Zee.  I hope you are saving all the leftover granite for your workbenches.

A word of caution about this collet chuck
Quote
If I'm correct, your new lathe has an MT 4 in the headstock. If this is true something like this maybe the answer to a collet chuck.

I installed one on my Grizzly G0602 lathe and actually made a 1 3/4" - 8 nut to screw onto the spindle to allow me to leverage the chuck out of the MT4 spindle taper.  It worked fine for several uses, and then it didn't.  Last week I tried everything to get that taper to release and it was just stuck.  I finally had to bang on the drawbar with a hammer to release it, something I really do not like to do.  I had even tried a pulley remover and ended up breaking the outer pulley casting.  Don't think I'll use it again, especially since I have spindle collet systems for my other lathes.

Phil
Title: Re: Zee's Shop Beginnings
Post by: Art K on April 04, 2017, 03:35:09 AM
My lathe when I purchased it included a chunk of aluminum bar that was a sliding fit in the spindle. My collet fits in a taper and one pop with the aluminum bar pops it out. Seems like a waste of aluminum but I haven't found a better use for it yet. :ROFL:
Art
Title: Re: Zee's Shop Beginnings
Post by: zeeprogrammer on April 06, 2017, 10:33:31 PM
An update and an apology.
I mean an apology and an update.

My apologies to everyone for having had a hand in the locking of 'that' thread.
While these are sensitive times and I have strong feelings when it comes to divisive language and painting a group of people with the same brush...I should have slept on it before possibly jumping to conclusions and pounding away at the keyboard. I forgot my own advice.

I have no real update. No pics anyway as not much has changed in the last several days.

Trim work is up. Caulking and painting started.
Next week will be big. Some of the rooms will be done enough where we can move a bunch of stuff from upstairs to downstairs so they can work on the upstairs.
No biggie on the upstairs. Mainly replacing baseboard and carpet, and finishing the new windows.
Next week is also landscaping. I need that to be done so the fencing can get started and the garden boxes put in.
I mean so the garden boxes can be put in and the fencing started.  ;D

Once I have an idea of when the driveway will be done and usable then I can order the machines.  :pinkelephant:
Title: Re: Zee's Shop Beginnings
Post by: Tennessee Whiskey on April 06, 2017, 10:35:58 PM
I've always heard that the last ten percent takes forty percent of the time and that equals half of the time  :shrug:

Eric
Title: Re: Zee's Shop Beginnings
Post by: zeeprogrammer on April 06, 2017, 11:06:56 PM
I've always heard that the last ten percent takes forty percent of the time and that equals half of the time  :shrug:

Pretty much. At work the rule has been the last 10% is 90% of the job.
Getting something to work is pretty easy. Taking care of all the things that can go wrong is the hard part.  :lolb:
Title: Re: Zee's Shop Beginnings
Post by: Walsheng on April 07, 2017, 12:03:40 AM
The contractors "finished" our kitchen in 1993.  All I had to do was put up a few pieces of finish wood (can't remember why I didn't have the contractor do it.)  About 5 years ago I put the stain and urethane on them and stuck them back on the shelf. Next year they go up...I promise honey!

John
Title: Re: Zee's Shop Beginnings
Post by: zeeprogrammer on April 07, 2017, 02:27:56 AM
The contractors "finished" our kitchen in 1993.  All I had to do was put up a few pieces of finish wood (can't remember why I didn't have the contractor do it.)  About 5 years ago I put the stain and urethane on them and stuck them back on the shelf. Next year they go up...I promise honey!

 :lolb: :lolb: I've just been having a similar discussion with T.
Definitely my fault. I have to stop saying..."never mind, I'll take care of it".
Title: Re: Zee's Shop Beginnings
Post by: Steamer5 on April 07, 2017, 03:05:18 AM
Hi Zee,
 Sounds like thing are chugging along!

On the "I do that front" just remember that everyone you decided to do is LESS WORKSHOP TIME! Been there cursed that! Oh & the builder & half the tradies!


Cheers Kerrin
Title: Re: Zee's Shop Beginnings
Post by: Flyboy Jim on April 07, 2017, 03:16:43 AM
I've always heard that the last ten percent takes forty percent of the time and that equals half of the time  :shrug:

Eric

Eric..............another way I've heard that on the airplane building sites is: 80% done and 80% left to go!  :lolb:

Zee.............great progress. I'm looking forward to hearing your final final decision on your lathe and mill.  :) It's really going to be fun to see you setting up your new shop.

Jim
Title: Re: Zee's Shop Beginnings
Post by: zeeprogrammer on April 07, 2017, 04:08:02 AM
I'm looking forward to hearing your final final decision on your lathe and mill.

Unless something goes awry...it's the PM machines. PM1030v lathe and PM25MV mill.

Hmmm....as I was typing this, T came downstairs all pissed off about the markets. Hmmmmm.

Ah well...can't change the past. Time to see what I can do about the future.  ;D
Title: Re: Zee's Shop Beginnings
Post by: gerritv on April 07, 2017, 12:18:56 PM
I'm looking forward to hearing your final final decision on your lathe and mill.
Hmmm....as I was typing this, T came downstairs all pissed off about the markets. Hmmmmm.

Ah well...can't change the past. Time to see what I can do about the future.  ;D

Definitely my fault. I have to stop saying..."never mind, I'll take care of it".
We learned in 2009 that the best thing to do is look at stocks once per month, maximum. Following them daily will give you an ulcer and in the end none of it matters until you actually need to cash in.

Quote
Definitely my fault. I have to stop saying..."never mind, I'll take care of it".
That has been beat out of me by swmbo, I now let the contractor finish the job. I might touch things up later but it is done when they get paid. Retiring 9 years ago taught us the lesson that time is limited. If you can afford to get something done then let them do it.
Title: Re: Zee's Shop Beginnings
Post by: Flyboy Jim on April 07, 2017, 03:15:17 PM

Quote
Definitely my fault. I have to stop saying..."never mind, I'll take care of it".
That has been beat out of me by swmbo, I now let the contractor finish the job. I might touch things up later but it is done when they get paid. Retiring 9 years ago taught us the lesson that time is limited. If you can afford to get something done then let them do it.

Having been a "lifetime do-it-yourselfer" that's a lesson I'm still struggling to learn.  :hammerbash: When a project comes up, the conversation I have with myself usually goes like this: "I could pay someone to do it or I could pay myself to do it and take the money I save and buy some new tools". I've gotten some great tools that way and usually do a better job than the contractor does.

Jim
Title: Re: Zee's Shop Beginnings
Post by: zeeprogrammer on April 07, 2017, 10:51:53 PM
Yes, there comes the time when you choose between your time and your money.

I did our 1st kitchen in this house some 10 years ago. Soup to nuts. It was a great looking kitchen and T tells me it will take some time for her to get over losing it.

I suspect that's a lie given the new kitchen.   ;D

I like it when she lies to me.
Title: Re: Zee's Shop Beginnings
Post by: Tennessee Whiskey on April 07, 2017, 11:55:31 PM
Ten years ago I still had the desire and energy; today I'd as soon pay someone and spend the time in the shop or just watching them work. Work doesn't bother me; I can watch them doing it for hours on end  :lolb:

Eric
Title: Re: Zee's Shop Beginnings
Post by: zeeprogrammer on April 15, 2017, 03:43:55 PM
Well the shop is now full.

But not with a single thing related to machining or a shop.  :cussing:

We had to move all the stuff from upstairs and the living room into the finished areas so the builder can begin base board, trim, paint, floors.

Ran out of room.

I tried. I really tried to keep the shop empty.

It is going to be weeks before I can get into the shop.  :'(
Weeks!

But on the bright side (which I always look for)...the kitchen is in working operation.
Good meals coming up!

Title: Re: Zee's Shop Beginnings
Post by: vcutajar on April 15, 2017, 04:27:14 PM
Oh no.  From experience, once things get in there, they rarely go out.

Vince
Title: Re: Zee's Shop Beginnings
Post by: mklotz on April 15, 2017, 05:36:11 PM
I'm with Vince on this one.  Beware the wife who "just wants to put this here for a few days" or "it will hardly take up any room at all".  I speak from wide, and very bitter, experience.

Sometimes one must resort to well-planned "accidents" that involve smelly shop fluids and "misplacement" of very heavy objects in order to solve the problem.
Title: Re: Zee's Shop Beginnings
Post by: zeeprogrammer on April 15, 2017, 06:14:07 PM
No to worry. It will be gone.
For one thing, it's all stuff needed back in the other rooms once they are done.
For another, the garage is right around the corner and once that's done things may mysteriously move.

Any issues and all dish-washing stops.  ;D

An empty threat, I know, but it's all I've got.
Title: Re: Zee's Shop Beginnings
Post by: crueby on April 15, 2017, 06:55:21 PM
Any issues and all dish-washing stops.  ;D
'Snort...


Yeah, right...
Title: Re: Zee's Shop Beginnings
Post by: zeeprogrammer on April 16, 2017, 09:51:06 PM


A Christmas gift from my youngest...a FrankenSwitch.

(http://i605.photobucket.com/albums/tt139/zeeprogrammer/Remodel/FrankenSwitch_zps3irsaumg.jpg) (http://s605.photobucket.com/user/zeeprogrammer/media/Remodel/FrankenSwitch_zps3irsaumg.jpg.html)

Update...spent the last 3 days emptying the upstairs so they can begin up there. Just new base, trim, painting, and door knobs.
Carpeting upstairs won't happen until the 8th so it won't be until then that I can empty the shop.
Title: Re: Zee's Shop Beginnings
Post by: Tennessee Whiskey on April 19, 2017, 03:20:08 PM
Love the switch. In reference to a post of yours on another thread: should we expect quilting frames in the new shop? :shrug:

Cletus
Title: Re: Zee's Shop Beginnings
Post by: zeeprogrammer on April 19, 2017, 10:16:36 PM
Love the switch. In reference to a post of yours on another thread: should we expect quilting frames in the new shop? :shrug:

Nah. Not any time soon. Quilting would be a project (i.e. something to do) when I can't get into the shop.  ;D
Title: Re: Zee's Shop Beginnings
Post by: Doc on April 19, 2017, 10:24:44 PM


A Christmas gift from my youngest...a FrankenSwitch.

(http://i605.photobucket.com/albums/tt139/zeeprogrammer/Remodel/FrankenSwitch_zps3irsaumg.jpg) (http://s605.photobucket.com/user/zeeprogrammer/media/Remodel/FrankenSwitch_zps3irsaumg.jpg.html)

Update...spent the last 3 days emptying the upstairs so they can begin up there. Just new base, trim, painting, and door knobs.
Carpeting upstairs won't happen until the 8th so it won't be until then that I can empty the shop.


Thats a cool switch I like it!!
Title: Re: Zee's Shop Beginnings
Post by: zeeprogrammer on April 19, 2017, 11:07:34 PM
Thanks Doc.

Having a daughter that thought of my interests is pretty neat.

It's a cool switch...but kind of light. That is...without real feel.
Seems like it needs a bit of weight or at least resistance when moving it.

I may paint it. On the other hand, that handle would be nice in brass.
Title: Re: Zee's Shop Beginnings
Post by: mklotz on April 19, 2017, 11:16:09 PM
Are you sure that that thing is a switch?

I don't see any electrical contacts and what's that funny extra gear for?  And, for that matter, what kind of switch has gears?  It looks to me like some kind of exotic kitchen gear or maybe something used in a specialized occupation.  Have you searched its image in Google images?

Got any more pictures of it?
Title: Re: Zee's Shop Beginnings
Post by: Tennessee Whiskey on April 19, 2017, 11:19:00 PM
Hey, maybe after a quilt or two you could reverse engineer the switch into one much heavier, it's a great design  :stir: :stir: :stir:. After my day, at least let me have fun in yours  :lolb:

Cletus

Marv, resembles death row; just saying.
Title: Re: Zee's Shop Beginnings
Post by: crueby on April 19, 2017, 11:30:40 PM
Here's what the switch plate in the shop should look like:
(https://s5.postimg.org/s93k421mv/Image1.jpg)
Need some jacobs ladders sparking away off to the side too...
Title: Re: Zee's Shop Beginnings
Post by: zeeprogrammer on April 20, 2017, 12:48:10 AM
I believe she got it from here...

http://www.uncommongoods.com/product/frankenstein-switch-plate?country=US&aw_cid=696470606&aw_aid=41820586211&aw_dev=c&aw_loc=9007365&aw_key=&aw_mtype=&aw_net=g&aw_ad=157884860831&aw_pos=1o4&aw_shopid=41983&aw_prod_partid=194850157017&gclid=CO_xt_bXsdMCFdNWDQodP80DIg

I agree Marv...I should see some bare wires, lugs, and no high voltage warnings. (But it was from my daughter.)
A spark or two as you flip it would be cool.

Eric...yeah...I can't help thinking of how to 'improve it'.

Chris...now you're talking. That's the kind of image I had as a kid. Unfortunately, today's liability lawyers makes it difficult.

Ah the kid is showing up. I can see beakers, flasks, switches, dials...

I'm sure you all remember...and some of these were inspirations...

"Frankenstein"
"The Absent Minded Professor" with Fred MacMurray (i.e. flubber)
Professor Fate in the "The Great Race" (My all time favorite)
or even the old Star Trek series with all the buttons and displays

I'd better go work on my maniacal laugh...bwahahahahahahaha

It actually doesn't need a lot of work...bwahahahahaha
Title: Re: Zee's Shop Beginnings
Post by: ShopShoe on April 20, 2017, 02:06:34 PM
Don't forget "Young Frankenstein." One of the big knife switches was labeled "The Works"

(If I remember right, that was the original lab equipment from the original "Frankenstein.")

("It is pronounced 'FRONK-en-steen' ")

ShopShoe
Title: Re: Zee's Shop Beginnings
Post by: Bluechip on April 20, 2017, 03:29:11 PM
One of these is a 'must have' ...  :zap:

yjMZ5qtyCUc
Dave
Title: Re: Zee's Shop Beginnings
Post by: zeeprogrammer on April 21, 2017, 10:38:01 PM
I hadn't forgotten "Young Frankenstein". But it was well past my wonder years so I didn't include it. (Cool lab though).

@Dave...so when are you getting one?

P.S. The video doesn't open in the forum but was easy to find. Thanks!
Title: Re: Zee's Shop Beginnings
Post by: Bluechip on April 22, 2017, 11:28:36 AM
I

@Dave...so when are you getting one?



I think not .   Those things frightened the life out of me.

Spawn of Satan .... 

To get them ( ours ) going you had to stick your paws in amongst the exposed 440V AC connections, operate a lever with a magnet on it that dipped the Igniter electrode in the mercury pool at which point there was a blinding flash and a lot of growling, snarling and belching noises and away it went ....  :zap:

Senna pods NOT required ....

Thanks for the idea Carl, but I'll give it a miss .... by a long, long way ....

Dave

EDIT In fact it shoved out 100V DC @ 80A (?) so there would not be 440V AC on the contraption itself but on a transformer below it.

Still got a serious episode of ring twitter if I ever had to use it ...  :o

D.

Title: Re: Zee's Shop Beginnings
Post by: Tin Falcon on April 22, 2017, 01:28:32 PM
You need a few of these light bulbs An adaptation of the Edison 1910 design but LED

(https://5fc98fa113f6897cea53-06dfa63be377ed632ae798753ae0fb3f.ssl.cf2.rackcdn.com/product_images/files/000/098/123/legacy_product_detail_large/data?1441395862)
Title: Re: Zee's Shop Beginnings
Post by: Admiral_dk on April 22, 2017, 08:21:47 PM
Quote
EDIT In fact it shoved out 100V DC @ 80A (?) so there would not be 440V AC on the contraption itself but on a transformer below it.

There might be a transformer involved, but the Isle of Man is in the EU (still) and we got five wires coming in => 3 phases with 400 Volts between them, and 230 Volts between phase and Return (Zero) in our houses as standard - though some (as Jo) only got one phase, and the last wire is Safety Ground. Here in Scandinavia we normally got a few 3 phase 400 Volt outlets in the kitchen and a few other places in the house - although this is getting a lot less common now that most new house appliances only need single phase power. The rest of Europe differs in what outlets they have in the house, but most I've seen have all five wires going in to the fuse board in the house. 400 Volt three phase is standard in just about all industrial buildings here in Europe (unless very old).

Nice bulb Tin - haven't seen those before.
Title: Re: Zee's Shop Beginnings
Post by: Tin Falcon on April 22, 2017, 08:57:40 PM
I have a couple in my shop . My meager attempt of going for a diesel punk decor.
Title: Re: Zee's Shop Beginnings
Post by: zeeprogrammer on April 22, 2017, 10:29:56 PM
Love the bulb.
Or as we sometimes say, the bub.
Title: Re: Zee's Shop Beginnings
Post by: Tin Falcon on April 22, 2017, 10:47:57 PM
Your local Lowes or home depot should have them. A couple brand names and 40-60 watt equivalent. 
Other shape envelopes as well. My prefeered bulb these days unless I want daylight bulbs.
Title: Re: Zee's Shop Beginnings
Post by: crueby on April 22, 2017, 11:12:05 PM
Your local Lowes or home depot should have them. A couple brand names and 40-60 watt equivalent. 
Other shape envelopes as well. My prefeered bulb these days unless I want daylight bulbs.
Have you taken one apart to find out how they got the long/skinny filament to look like it is glowing? Led buried in a fiber optic length, maybe?
Oh, come on, with THIS crew, someone must have!
 :zap:
Title: Re: Zee's Shop Beginnings
Post by: Tin Falcon on April 23, 2017, 12:09:11 AM
no dissection here at $ 10 each i use them  as a bulb. I am thinking long skinny leds  they doo throw of some heat  IIRC they use about 6 watts or 10% of an incandescent. 
Title: Re: Zee's Shop Beginnings
Post by: Walsheng on April 23, 2017, 01:10:44 AM
Those are the bulbs I put in my office lights because they looked nice in the kind of old fashiony fixtures.
They sure are a yellow light and I am still not sure if they are too yellow for me.  Makes the blue paint on the walls look green, even more so at night.

John
Title: Re: Zee's Shop Beginnings
Post by: Tin Falcon on April 23, 2017, 01:46:14 AM
The warm yellow glow similar to a kerosene lamp. A feeling of nostalgia. Relaxing.
Title: Re: Zee's Shop Beginnings
Post by: Flyboy Jim on April 23, 2017, 02:59:32 AM
Love the bulb.
Or as we sometimes say, the bub.

The only time I say "bub" is when I have a bad cold!  :ROFL:

Jim
Title: Re: Zee's Shop Beginnings
Post by: Walsheng on April 23, 2017, 12:09:09 PM
The warm yellow glow similar to a kerosene lamp. A feeling of nostalgia. Relaxing.

Yes, I get that feeling when I put on the sleeve protectors, bowler anf get to work on some drawings!

John
Title: Re: Zee's Shop Beginnings
Post by: zeeprogrammer on April 25, 2017, 11:18:11 PM
I think I've got just the place for one of those Edison lights. But it won't be until I get set up.

I'm going to be a bad boy for the next several days.
T went out of town to help our dear friend go through her other hip replacement.

I'm tasked with eating T's frozen dinners that she prepared for me.

But gee...I don't get many chances for a chicken cheesesteak or a pizza from Peppermill.
And...I gotta stop off at grocery for some rocky road.

I'm fortunate that she does not travel much anymore. I would not survive my diet.  ;D

My excuse to her? Once in a while you have to eat garbage to appreciate the good food.

Yeah. Yeah. She doesn't buy it either.
Title: Re: Zee's Shop Beginnings
Post by: Walsheng on April 26, 2017, 12:58:23 AM
I understand completely about eating garbage to appreciate the good stuff!  Staying at a hotel while at NAMES I had a bowl of Frosted Flakes for breakfast (pure vacation food.)  I thought my wife was going to loose her breakfast watching me eat them.  I did some twitching during the day but a small price to pay!

John
Title: Re: Zee's Shop Beginnings
Post by: zeeprogrammer on April 26, 2017, 01:20:44 AM
I understand completely about eating garbage to appreciate the good stuff!  Staying at a hotel while at NAMES I had a bowl of Frosted Flakes for breakfast (pure vacation food.)  I thought my wife was going to loose her breakfast watching me eat them.  I did some twitching during the day but a small price to pay!

 :ThumbsUp: Hello brother.
Title: Re: Zee's Shop Beginnings
Post by: zeeprogrammer on April 28, 2017, 09:28:57 PM
A little update. We're getting close.

I'm having trouble with photobucket tonight so the pics are attached below.

1st and 2nd shot is the kitchen with back splash installed but not grouted yet.
3rd and 4th shot is the floor in living and old dining room. Getting sanded. Part of the floor is new.
5th shot is the newly installed driveway!
6th shot is the driveway and the builder's outhouse.
I had to include that. An outhouse. Brings back many childhood memories.

T is out of town. By the time she returns the driveway should be 'cured'. Then I'm thinking I can pull the trigger on getting machines.
Title: Re: Zee's Shop Beginnings
Post by: crueby on April 28, 2017, 10:13:16 PM
Looking great! But, no pics of the new shop?   :stickpoke:
Title: Re: Zee's Shop Beginnings
Post by: zeeprogrammer on April 28, 2017, 10:29:30 PM
Looking great! But, no pics of the new shop?   :stickpoke:

 :'( :'( Full of non-shop stuff. Once shelves are in closets and some of the rooms done then out it goes.

I do hope to get a lab bench in there this weekend. Just something...something...to make it a shop.

(The switch does help though.)
Title: Re: Zee's Shop Beginnings
Post by: wagnmkr on April 28, 2017, 10:49:51 PM
Is that an essential item I see in the kitchen ... a wine fridge?

Tom
Title: Re: Zee's Shop Beginnings
Post by: zeeprogrammer on April 29, 2017, 12:33:54 AM
Is that an essential item I see in the kitchen ... a wine fridge?

Yes. Not my idea. I'm not picky.

But that's her shop and she can do whatever is needed or desired to continue providing her fabulous meals.

Any one remember Strawberry Hill? Mateus? Lancer's?
College wine.
I still remember the price tag on Strawberry Hill. 89 cents.
Now it seems that's less than the tax one pays for decent bottle of wine.  :lolb:
Title: Re: Zee's Shop Beginnings
Post by: b.lindsey on April 29, 2017, 01:47:33 AM
You must have gone to a better school. I remember Thunderbird and MD 20/20...some nasty stuff  :lolb:

Bill
Title: Re: Zee's Shop Beginnings
Post by: Walsheng on April 29, 2017, 02:10:26 AM
Boons Farm Apple "Wine" here, $.99 a bottle, 6 for $5.
I get nauseous every time I think about it!  Couldn't drink any kind of wine for 25 years.

House is looking great, won't be long.

John
Title: Re: Zee's Shop Beginnings
Post by: ShopShoe on April 29, 2017, 01:57:27 PM
ME, as a freshman:

"We had a party on my floor last night."

THEM, as upperclassmen:

"20 guys in a small room, a case of Ripple, and trying all night to get some girls to come over?"

(No Comment)

Title: Re: Zee's Shop Beginnings
Post by: Tennessee Whiskey on April 29, 2017, 05:06:46 PM
Y'all had the store bought stuff: damn city boys. We had Uncle Richard's homemade grape wine and Walter Beard's corn licker, if'n he wasn't in jail for making shine. Ah, life in the big city :lolb: :lolb:

Cletus
Title: Re: Zee's Shop Beginnings
Post by: Tennessee Whiskey on April 29, 2017, 05:16:37 PM
Oh yeah; what type of cooktop and or stove is going under the modern hood vent?

Cletus
Title: Re: Zee's Shop Beginnings
Post by: zeeprogrammer on April 29, 2017, 05:57:55 PM
Oh yeah; what type of cooktop and or stove is going under the modern hood vent?

Wolf range top. Wolf oven. Miele steam oven.

T's loving the range top because it gets good and hot.
She hasn't touched the steam oven yet. She wants quality time to get to know it before using it.

We got the oven at a good deal. Came out of a home whose kitchen was being redone. Hardly used. Makes me wonder why they're bothering doing their kitchen if they don't use it.

I'm hoping she's so busy having fun in her shop that I'll be left alone to have fun in mine.  ;D
Title: Re: Zee's Shop Beginnings
Post by: Tennessee Whiskey on April 29, 2017, 08:44:12 PM
Duuuuuuuuuuude, Wolf cooking machines, steam oven, and dedicated wine thingy; maybe you should check the Hardinge website instead of Precision Matthews: that's top notch cooking equipment.

Cletus
Title: Re: Zee's Shop Beginnings
Post by: zeeprogrammer on April 29, 2017, 10:28:54 PM
Duuuuuuuuuuude, Wolf cooking machines, steam oven, and dedicated wine thingy; maybe you should check the Hardinge website instead of Precision Matthews: that's top notch cooking equipment.

Your assumption is incorrect.  ;D
Her shop is causing me to scale back my shop.    :'(

A disappointment now...but she'll be cooking, if not more often, for far longer, than I'll be machining.   :shrug:

We're way over budget but we're staying here to the end. Now's the time to take a risk. Granted...a very well studied risk.
Title: Re: Zee's Shop Beginnings
Post by: zeeprogrammer on May 04, 2017, 12:04:45 AM
As Daffy might say "This is a shop!?"

Yes. Yes it is. Somewhere behind all that crap is my shop.
T gets home this Friday.
Then I make my play.  ;D
No. Not that play. Time to schedule when I order my machines.
(What in the world am I saying? Of course that play. But I need a different play book. None of my plays have worked for years.)

Driveway is in so there's no problem rolling the machines into the shop.
Just gotta figure out some other crap details that life throws you..er...me. Well...you too.

(http://i605.photobucket.com/albums/tt139/zeeprogrammer/Remodel/A_Shop_zpsrak2jvs7.jpg) (http://s605.photobucket.com/user/zeeprogrammer/media/Remodel/A_Shop_zpsrak2jvs7.jpg.html)

I might keep that pumpkin head though. Seems apropos.
Title: Re: Zee's Shop Beginnings
Post by: 90LX_Notch on May 04, 2017, 12:09:00 AM
Add some machines to it and that picture probably looks like 80% of home shops.

-Bob
Title: Re: Zee's Shop Beginnings
Post by: Flyboy Jim on May 04, 2017, 03:23:13 AM
As Daffy might say "This is a shop!?"

Yes. Yes it is. Somewhere behind all that crap is my shop.
T gets home this Friday.
Then I make my play.  ;D
No. Not that play. Time to schedule when I order my machines.
(What in the world am I saying? Of course that play. But I need a different play book. None of my plays have worked for years.)

Driveway is in so there's no problem rolling the machines into the shop.
Just gotta figure out some other crap details that life throws you..er...me. Well...you too.

I might keep that pumpkin head though. Seems apropos.

I'm glad to hear your machines are still on the front burner Zee.  :ThumbsUp:

Jim
Title: Re: Zee's Shop Beginnings
Post by: crueby on May 04, 2017, 04:05:19 AM
Getting close!


That pumpkin head would be a good start on a steampunk robot...
Title: Re: Zee's Shop Beginnings
Post by: zeeprogrammer on May 08, 2017, 02:00:12 AM
Just a quick update...

T came home after helping a dear friend through a hip replacement.
I got in trouble. Forgot to toss a pizza box.

Pool got coped, tiled, and plastered. Now I have to go out twice a day to brush.
Fence was supposed to be in tomorrow but will be Tuesday due to rain.
Hardwood floor is done in living room, butler pantry, and T's new office. Despite my forgetting it was wet and trodding over the 2nd coat.

Getting down to details. I've got a two-page punch list. Builder said he had six items on his list. I guess we'll have an interesting discussion tomorrow.

Found out I have to wait a week to move furniture to the new floor. Which means a delay to emptying the shop so I can start nesting.

Hm...I'm thinking it's time to have that discussion with T. Can I order my machines now? Huh? Can I? Can I?

Been raining. I'll get pics soon.
Title: Re: Zee's Shop Beginnings
Post by: Doc on May 08, 2017, 02:55:26 AM
 :ThumbsUp: :ThumbsUp: :ThumbsUp:
Title: Re: Zee's Shop Beginnings
Post by: Flyboy Jim on May 19, 2017, 05:09:38 AM
OK Zee..........I see that you've re-surfaced on a couple of other threads................so thinking that we need an update on your shop/house project?  :naughty:

Jim
Title: Re: Zee's Shop Beginnings
Post by: b.lindsey on May 19, 2017, 12:16:54 PM
Yeah, we need info!!!   Did you order your new lathe yet??  :stickpoke:

Bill
Title: Re: Zee's Shop Beginnings
Post by: Don1966 on May 19, 2017, 04:29:33 PM
Yeah, we need info!!!   Did you order your new lathe yet??  :stickpoke:

Bill
Yep did you?


Don
Title: Re: Zee's Shop Beginnings
Post by: crueby on May 19, 2017, 11:21:46 PM
Mill too?


 :popcorn:
Title: Re: Zee's Shop Beginnings
Post by: zeeprogrammer on May 20, 2017, 01:12:43 AM
Uh... :paranoia:

Okay...here's the latest...

We're getting to the end of the project. A few things left that should be done next week...
Fencing
Awning
Solar
Carpeting might be an extra week or two
We're working on the punch list...which means some negotiation and arguing but it's going well. Builder is pretty decent.

Started clearing out the shop so I can put my shop in.  ;D Those who've kept up with the thread know what I mean.

The big news...T asked how much money we still needed to transfer from investments including...including...gasp...money for my shop.  :o
She's thinking of me.  :ThumbsUp:
I just haven't figured out yet why.  :thinking:

I'm thinking I'll pull the trigger on machines in the next week or two.
I have to admit...I'm a bit nervous about it. It will happen. But I might take a bit more time.

Today marks 51 weeks left until retirement. But that's just plan.
I may say screw it tomorrow...or I may say...I'd better hang on a bit more.
I'm sure most of you know what I'm going through.

I promised pictures earlier. I guess I'm promising again.  ;D

Seriously though...thanks for asking. Very much appreciated.

Oh and yes... both lathe and mill. And a few goodies to go with.
I'm jumping in with both feet and my ass.
Title: Re: Zee's Shop Beginnings
Post by: 10KPete on May 20, 2017, 01:21:43 AM
Hang in there, Carl. You and T will get there, and by Christmas you'll be able to sit back with the family and enjoy the new set-up.

 :cheers: :cheers:

Pete
Title: Re: Zee's Shop Beginnings
Post by: crueby on May 20, 2017, 01:40:24 AM
The retirement part is a big change, and its natural to be nervous about it, but with a bit of planning and confidence in the decision it works out fine. Biggest change is knowing what to do with the time, don't think you will have problems with that. People with no interests and hobbies have a big shock, you have both.


 :cheers:
Title: Re: Zee's Shop Beginnings
Post by: b.lindsey on May 20, 2017, 02:39:18 AM
That all sounds great Zee. We are on a similar retirement plan it seems, give or take a week or two. Mine is more fixed though, wouldn't be right to leave in the middle of the upcoming school year, but I definitely don't see going beyond the end of next Spring. Not counting the days yet but almost :). Keep us posted on the new equipment ordering, that's exciting....I am happy for you re: the shop, and for you and T both with the beautiful home renovations.

Bill
Title: Re: Zee's Shop Beginnings
Post by: gerritv on May 20, 2017, 02:58:20 AM
Quote
Today marks 51 weeks left until retirement. But that's just plan.
I may say screw it tomorrow...or I may say...I'd better hang on a bit more.
I'm sure most of you know what I'm going through.
From my experience you will think you need more $ when you likely already have enough in the plan. It is quite amazing how much less you spend after the first year of retirement.
Since we don't know how long we are on this earth, retiring sooner rather than later is best plan in my experience.

Gerrit
Title: Re: Zee's Shop Beginnings
Post by: Steamer5 on May 20, 2017, 06:40:21 AM
Hi Zee,
 Sounds like things are on track for shop move in day!

Only 52 weeks.....some people are lucky! Hopefully........but you never really know......I've still got another few years of tool buying to go!

My dad retired at 60, at the time it was the best thing he did, as my mum died a bit over a year latter. But he had a workshop, once he got sorted on being on his own he wondered how he ever had time to go to work! Guys would arrive....I hear you can do lathe mill etc work.....He turned 90 2 months ago & still goes & plays in the shop most days, he doesn't take on any biggish jobs anymore cause you just never know but enjoys the day!
Cheers Kerrin
Title: Re: Zee's Shop Beginnings
Post by: paul gough on May 20, 2017, 08:13:49 AM
When you retire you have to work efficiently as time goes twice as fast, not slower! You'll find out the truth of it in about ten years. Best wishes for the new establishment. Paul Gough.
Title: Re: Zee's Shop Beginnings
Post by: zeeprogrammer on May 24, 2017, 10:49:34 PM
I did it.
I done did it.
The deed is done.
I did the deed.

I ordered the machines today.  :whoohoo: :whoohoo:

But  :cussing: blast it...the lathe is on back order.  :'(

PM-25MV Mill should arrive next week.
PM-1030V Lathe will be another 5 to 8 weeks.

Got stands for both.
The Lathe comes with a QC tool post. Also a 5" 3-jaw and 4-jaw chuck, face plate, thread chasing dial, 4-way tool post, dead centers, and chip pan.
The Mill comes with stand, drawbar, and speed display.
I included a 3-axis DRO, collets, small vise, and clamping kit.

Pics of the shop's current status....
I managed to clear it out. T didn't want the cabinet anymore so I got it. It should make for a nice display case.
The two lab benches were won in a raffle at work when they changed out lab equipment.
I won one and my daughter won one. She has no place for it...so....  ;D
I'll use one for my electronic projects. The other will be general purpose.

Now I'm working on moving everything up from the basement.
It's going to be a while before I'm set.

(http://i605.photobucket.com/albums/tt139/zeeprogrammer/Remodel/Shop%20North_zpswbuczk2x.jpg) (http://s605.photobucket.com/user/zeeprogrammer/media/Remodel/Shop%20North_zpswbuczk2x.jpg.html)

My main desk and computer setup will be in the corner to the right of that cabinet.
Not very happy with the ceiling lights. I was somewhat misled. But...the benches have their own lighting and the plan always was to provide spot lighting.

(http://i605.photobucket.com/albums/tt139/zeeprogrammer/Remodel/Shop%20South_zpsmsmrvrxp.jpg) (http://s605.photobucket.com/user/zeeprogrammer/media/Remodel/Shop%20South_zpsmsmrvrxp.jpg.html)

Machines are going along the right wall between that chair and the windows.
That way I'm facing the wall that has the entry to the shop and should minimize my being startled by those people yelling at me to keep my exuberance down.  ;D

T doesn't like my setup. She thinks my desk should be near the windows so I can enjoy nature through the windows.
While I would certainly enjoy that...I don't want the outside light interfering with my computer.

Please pardon me while I  :whoohoo: :whoohoo: :whoohoo:

Having said that...and despite my being the kind of person that always seeks the bright side of things...
Will the machines arrive intact?
Will the machines arrive as expected?
Will I get the machines installed without breaking them or hurting me?

Yes...the story continues.
Title: Re: Zee's Shop Beginnings
Post by: Dave Otto on May 24, 2017, 11:11:11 PM
Great progress Zee!

The lab benches remind me of my many years working as a process equipment maintenance tech. Our production areas and clean room had them all over the place.
It will be fun to see the machines moved in. I think that I would want a work bench in front of the window and a desk for the PC located on the other end of the shop near the cabinet.

Dave
Title: Re: Zee's Shop Beginnings
Post by: mklotz on May 24, 2017, 11:29:35 PM
That china cabinet soon to be an engine display case reminded me of a visit to Hearst Castle here in California.  His office has long built-in, lighted display cases on both walls facing the huge conference table.

I can remember thinking, when I saw them,

Wow. Think of all the engines one could display there.  What a waste to fill those cases with priceless Greek vases and signed, leather-bound first editions.

There was even room in the cabinets under the cases for a nice, quiet air compressor to keep them running.

And that disused indoor Roman swimming pool.  Drain it and you have a luxurious shop space with a gold-inlaid tile floor.
Title: Re: Zee's Shop Beginnings
Post by: zeeprogrammer on May 24, 2017, 11:38:07 PM
I think that I would want a work bench in front of the window and a desk for the PC located on the other end of the shop near the cabinet.

Exactly my thinking Dave. Thanks.

Wow. Think of all the engines one could display there.  What a waste to fill those cases with priceless Greek vases and signed, leather-bound first editions.

 ;D Well it will be dual purpose. It already has my Dad's metal truck toy he had as a kid along with a miniature Coca-Cola bottle. As well as a model of my first car (Beetle). It's also holding the first few machining projects I've done.

It will be a shrine of sorts.

I look forward to filling it with more.



Title: Re: Zee's Shop Beginnings
Post by: mklotz on May 25, 2017, 12:20:25 AM
Now you need a nice brass Ho Tei in the china cabinet so you can rub his belly for good luck before attempting to tap bronze or drill stainless steel.
Title: Re: Zee's Shop Beginnings
Post by: 90LX_Notch on May 25, 2017, 12:41:25 AM
I'm jealous Carl.  That certainly is a beautiful shop space.  Congratulations.

I agree with Dave; a bench in front of the windows would be nice.  One there would be nice for assembly and benchwork.

-Bob
Title: Re: Zee's Shop Beginnings
Post by: crueby on May 25, 2017, 12:43:05 AM
Su-Weet!   :pinkelephant: :cartwheel:
Title: Re: Zee's Shop Beginnings
Post by: zeeprogrammer on May 25, 2017, 01:04:48 AM
Now you need a nice brass Ho Tei in the china cabinet so you can rub his belly for good luck before attempting to tap bronze or drill stainless steel.

I do have my superstitions. I was especially bad about 'knocking on wood'. It got to the point that every other thought I had...especially when driving...had me knocking.
No wood in the car but that didn't stop the tap-tap.

I finally broke that habit by telling myself..."knock on wood I'll never have to knock on wood again".
I haven't done it since.
Why? Because it would break the spell.  :Lol:

I also have a belief in 'things happen in 3s'. If I fail twice in a row...my confidence is such that I will succeed on the 3rd.
Or the 6th. Or the the 9th...  :facepalm2:
Title: Re: Zee's Shop Beginnings
Post by: Art K on May 25, 2017, 02:56:08 AM
Zee,
The shop is coming along well. I agree with all the others, computer monitor & lots of sunlight, not. I have to admit that if I had that floor I'd be afraid to make chips. :lolb: Hey, to bad your daughter doesn't have room for the bench, but maybe when you get it filled up. :ROFL: Looking good.
Art
Title: Re: Zee's Shop Beginnings
Post by: Flyboy Jim on May 25, 2017, 03:53:14 AM
Shop looks good Zee. I'm glad to hear you got your machines ordered.  :whoohoo:

Jim
Title: Re: Zee's Shop Beginnings
Post by: Tennessee Whiskey on May 25, 2017, 10:05:17 AM
Now doesn't that feel better?  Man that is one elegant looking home machine shop  :ThumbsUp:  I sure would like to pick out the wall art  :mischief: :LittleDevil: 

Cletus
Title: Re: Zee's Shop Beginnings
Post by: zeeprogrammer on May 25, 2017, 11:53:02 AM
Thanks all.

I sure would like to pick out the wall art  :mischief: :LittleDevil: 

There may not be a lot of room.

One wall will be the "wall of learnings"
One wall reserved for "let's see if that sticks"
One wall reserved for the usual "head banging"

There might be some room between those windows on the 4th wall.

;D

 :thinking: Maybe the ceiling. Easily view-able when I'm on the floor throwing a tantrum.
Title: Re: Zee's Shop Beginnings
Post by: b.lindsey on May 25, 2017, 12:19:43 PM
That is a beautiful space you have Zee. And will look even better once everything is in place and organized. The workbenches that you won with the overhead lighting will be great for lots of things, that was a nice score!!  Looking forward to the continuing adventures of set up and getting down to some real shop work. Anything in mind for a first "new shop" project??

Bill
Title: Re: Zee's Shop Beginnings
Post by: Jo on May 25, 2017, 06:54:00 PM
8) You can almost smell the swarf.... Speaking of which - how are you going to keep the swarf in the workshop?

And have you thought about the Workshop gnome(s) ?  They can smell a machine tool from miles away and will be moving in before you realise you have an infestation :ShakeHead:

Jo
Title: Re: Zee's Shop Beginnings
Post by: Tennessee Whiskey on May 25, 2017, 07:02:53 PM
Or, did you have the foundation pretreated for gnomes in the termite package?

Cletus
Title: Re: Zee's Shop Beginnings
Post by: crueby on May 25, 2017, 07:05:57 PM
Plates of mint chocolate chip cookies are cheaper, proven to convert harmful gnomes to helpful elves, and you can have some too!


 :Lol:
Title: Re: Zee's Shop Beginnings
Post by: Tennessee Whiskey on May 25, 2017, 07:09:17 PM
Wonderful Chris. You know a lot of recipes call for just a pinch of cream of tartar and if you spill a bit, ants won't cross though it  :facepalm2:.

Cletus
Title: Re: Zee's Shop Beginnings
Post by: bruedney on May 25, 2017, 08:13:05 PM
Anything in mind for a first "new shop" project??

Bill
I seem to recall a Monitor Steam Engine that was started some time ago. Or was that in a different universe :thinking:

Looking good Zee - Hope everything turns up soon and you can start making the workshop dirty. It looks too clean at the moment.

Cheers

Bruce
Title: Re: Zee's Shop Beginnings
Post by: crueby on May 25, 2017, 08:29:53 PM
Anything in mind for a first "new shop" project??

Bill
I seem to recall a Monitor Steam Engine that was started some time ago. Or was that in a different universe :thinking:

Looking good Zee - Hope everything turns up soon and you can start making the workshop dirty. It looks too clean at the moment.

Cheers

Bruce
Well, we could all chip in and mail Zee a starter collection of swarf!   :lolb:
Title: Re: Zee's Shop Beginnings
Post by: Tennessee Whiskey on May 25, 2017, 10:33:04 PM
Y'all send the swarf; I want to put the "over oiled chuck" splash of color onn the wall  :LittleDevil:

Cletus
Title: Re: Zee's Shop Beginnings
Post by: Don1966 on May 25, 2017, 10:59:46 PM
Geeez Zee, I am just catching up on the shop buddy and already everyone is talking about food. Sure looks great buddy and very happy for you man. I know how excited you are to finally get it and your new machines. By the way when do we get them?


 :drinking-41:
Don
Title: Re: Zee's Shop Beginnings
Post by: zeeprogrammer on May 26, 2017, 12:57:18 AM
Anything in mind for a first "new shop" project??

Yes. I have my eye on a popcorn engine from drawings that Julius provided. I've been scaling it down a bit.

Speaking of which - how are you going to keep the swarf in the workshop?

Is that even possible? But initial plan is shop shoes to change into/out of as I enter/leave the shop.
Backup plan is a swarf blower at the door.
Backup backup plan is cheese and wine to assuage T's disgust with me.

And have you thought about the Workshop gnome(s) ?

Actually yes. I've been making a few signs..."Chocolate Chip Cookies! Get them at Chris's place. Here are the directions..."
That should work...no?

I seem to recall a Monitor Steam Engine that was started some time ago. Or was that in a different universe :thinking:

:cussing: How can I continue it? There's been a few made now since then by other members..all much better than I can achieve.
Still...someday...it is a pretty cool engine.

Geeez Zee, I am just catching up on the shop buddy and already everyone is talking about food.

Funny. And I my first statement in this post is about a popcorn machine.

It's easy to get this group off track. Sometimes it only takes a word.

Tadpoles.

It's fun to look up the origin of words.






Title: Re: Zee's Shop Beginnings
Post by: zeeprogrammer on May 26, 2017, 12:58:47 AM
BTW...I got an engine hoist from HF today and put it together. Sheesh. It's bigger and heavier than I expected.
I sure hope it works out.

The mill was shipped today. They're telling me I could get it within 1 to 3 days.
Title: Re: Zee's Shop Beginnings
Post by: crueby on May 26, 2017, 01:08:04 AM

And have you thought about the Workshop gnome(s) ?

Actually yes. I've been making a few signs..."Chocolate Chip Cookies! Get them at Chris's place. Here are the directions..."
That should work...no?


Works for me! More helpers to make more engines for me!


And I'm making a lot renting them out to factories...
 :lolb:
Title: Re: Zee's Shop Beginnings
Post by: Art K on May 26, 2017, 03:43:00 AM
Zee,
I think this is what Cletus is talking about. :lolb: Beware when you use the cutoff tool and then switch to high speed turning.
(http://i1171.photobucket.com/albums/r559/Art-K/DSCN7091.jpg)
Be sure to have lens cleaning solution handy. You won't regret getting the cherry picker (engine hoist) till you don't remember who borrowed it last. :ROFL:
Art
Title: Re: Zee's Shop Beginnings
Post by: zeeprogrammer on May 26, 2017, 11:12:35 AM
Ah yes Art.

I've got some shirts that look like that too.
Title: Re: Zee's Shop Beginnings
Post by: zeeprogrammer on May 28, 2017, 11:46:58 PM
 :cussing: :cussing:

Mill was supposed to be delivered Friday. I took the day off and tracked it all day. Saw it arrived at a local depot.
Then I got a call. "Would it be okay to deliver on Tuesday?"

Like I have a choice? Residential deliveries are different than business.

Ah well.

Been worrying about how to get it in. Got dollies and an engine hoist. But driveway is brand new.
I'm thinking I'll create ruts if I dolly it from the curb to the garage.

So I'm thinking I'll have them shove it off the truck onto my pickup. Then back the pickup into the garage and use the engine hoist.

The daughters' boys have offered to help.
This might be my chance to do some damage.
Title: Re: Zee's Shop Beginnings
Post by: Walsheng on May 29, 2017, 01:21:11 AM
The last machine I had delivered, a bench top mill, was delivered by UPS Freight.  The driver told me he was not allowed to shove it on to the back of my pickup, only to the ground or on to a loading dock.  I finally talked him into it by telling him I would be responsible if anything went wrong.
How much does your mill weigh?

John
Title: Re: Zee's Shop Beginnings
Post by: crueby on May 29, 2017, 01:26:45 AM
Sounds like you need to call in the kids, along with their football team...
Title: Re: Zee's Shop Beginnings
Post by: zeeprogrammer on May 29, 2017, 01:42:46 AM
The last machine I had delivered, a bench top mill, was delivered by UPS Freight.  The driver told me he was not allowed to shove it on to the back of my pickup, only to the ground or on to a loading dock.  I finally talked him into it by telling him I would be responsible if anything went wrong.
How much does your mill weigh?

Yes. That's exactly my worry. It's UPS Freight and it's supposed to come with a lift gate.
Shipping weight is 530 pounds.
I have no idea how the driver can shove it anywhere much less my pickup.
If worse comes to worse...he can shove it to the ground, then I'll use the engine hoist to put into pickup, then drive pickup into garage.
I really don't want to use dollies or move the engine hoist across the new driveway.

I'm assuming too...that however it goes...whether on the ground or the pickup...I'll be able to get straps under the box so I can lift with the engine hoist.
If the box is flat bottomed throughout...I'm going to have to get some additional equipment (a jack of some sort) and leave the box on the street until I do.
Not too worried about theft but vandalism is something else.

@Chris...all I have is two daughters and a couple of young men. None in sports.
I'm trying to avoid calling on them. I generally avoid being obliged to anyone but more importantly...any kind of accident involving the equipment would be terrible.

Ah well. It'll get done. You've all done it.
Title: Re: Zee's Shop Beginnings
Post by: Walsheng on May 29, 2017, 02:05:40 AM
The truck will have a pallet jack and they can roll it onto the lift gate then onto the ground.
If you are worried about the dollies on the new pavement a couple of pieces of plywood, hop scotched up the driveway will keep the driveway safe.
If you have a good driver he will back up your driveway and use the pallet jack to roll it right into the garage.
 
Like you said, it will get done.  But it will require pictures!

John
Title: Re: Zee's Shop Beginnings
Post by: Flyboy Jim on May 29, 2017, 03:23:42 AM
:cussing: :cussing:

Mill was supposed to be delivered Friday. I took the day off and tracked it all day. Saw it arrived at a local depot.
Then I got a call. "Would it be okay to deliver on Tuesday?"

Like I have a choice? Residential deliveries are different than business.

Ah well.

Been worrying about how to get it in. Got dollies and an engine hoist. But driveway is brand new.
I'm thinking I'll create ruts if I dolly it from the curb to the garage.

So I'm thinking I'll have them shove it off the truck onto my pickup. Then back the pickup into the garage and use the engine hoist.

The daughters' boys have offered to help.
This might be my chance to do some damage.

Zee...............bet the driver $50 that he can't roll it right into your garage.  :naughty:

Also, if you went to the UPS depot can they load it into your pickup?

Jim
Title: Re: Zee's Shop Beginnings
Post by: zeeprogrammer on May 29, 2017, 03:58:31 AM
Thanks guys.

It's a tractor-trailer coming. Backing into the garage won't happen.

I do kind of wonder about running out to the depot myself. I may call first thing Tuesday morning and see.
I suspect I'll be too late.

Not to worry.

Title: Re: Zee's Shop Beginnings
Post by: Hugh Currin on May 29, 2017, 05:41:32 AM
Zee:

I'm not a rigger, never played one on TV, and haven't even stayed at a Holiday Inn recently. But..

I remember moving some large equipment using several pipes. Use a pry bar to lift one side of the heavy thing up. May take several steps, pry up, insert block, ply up more using spacer block, repeat. Do this till you can slide the iron pipe under the edge. Use a block and tackle to pull the heavy think further onto the pipe. Before it tips forward put another pipe under the leading edge of heavy thing. Move it more, repeat. This assumes the bottom of heavy thing, or the pallet, is smooth. If not you could lift the heavy thing up enough to put 2x4s under it to make a smooth bottom. The pipes, maybe 4' long, will spread the load much better than the steel engine hoist wheels. This does have the advantage of raising the heavy thing no more than a few inches above the floor, and it can't start swinging.

When we did this we didn't even have access to an engine hoist. If you can lift it straight up it'd be easy to insert pipes and/or 2x4s.

It's worked before but your mileage may vary.

Thanks.

Hugh
Title: Re: Zee's Shop Beginnings
Post by: Jo on May 29, 2017, 08:39:47 AM
Zee don't worry yourself about moving the mill: It will be much easier than you think. As Hugh mentioned add a set of rollers (3 off bar or broom handles just wider than the mill pallet) to the kit you already have and you are ready for its arrival  :cartwheel:.


Just don't try moving it on your own :hellno:

Jo
Title: Re: Zee's Shop Beginnings
Post by: Steamer5 on May 29, 2017, 09:40:58 AM
Hi Zee,
 Don't sweat the small stuff! I spent the day lifting our spa pool up onto 4x4 post,laid flat, cause that's what I had, cut up a length of 1 1/2" dowel into 5" lengths. Put these on top of the posts & rolled the spa forward as far as it would go, blocked it up moved the posts repeat, including moving it sideways. Not fast but I got there.....my hound wasn't any help, he went in side & had a sleep!
 R got home & said, is that all you've done all day..... :Mad: :Mad:
Had to move it again, after I got the deck built, R was home that day & relished how much work went into it!
Like Jo said some rollers built the pyramids! 

We are all sure you will find a way.....after all there's an engine to build!

Cheers Kerrin
Title: Re: Zee's Shop Beginnings
Post by: Jasonb on May 29, 2017, 10:19:20 AM
When I rebuilt my workshop I use some lengths of pipe, the type used for Pony pipe clamps, could push the lathe along with one finger. To protect the drive cut an 8x4 in half, lay pipe onto that and drop the mill onto them, roll onto second half of the ply, move first half etc and just work your way up the drive.

(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v156/jasonballamy/Engineering/DSC00033_zpsrjanirnt.jpg)
Title: Re: Zee's Shop Beginnings
Post by: b.lindsey on May 29, 2017, 12:36:27 PM
Only one more day to wait Zee. I am excited for you and I am sure the move will go well with all the good suggestions above. Pictures are a must of course!!

Bill
Title: Re: Zee's Shop Beginnings
Post by: crueby on May 29, 2017, 02:11:59 PM
Just don't watch the old Laurel and Hardy episode of moving the piano up the hill to the house before moving the mill.... :hellno:
Title: Re: Zee's Shop Beginnings
Post by: kvom on May 29, 2017, 04:32:11 PM
Most likely it will be on a pallet and driver will use a pallet jack.  500 lbs on a pallet jack is not going to make an impression on a concrete drive.  And if you ordered the stand, it may or may not be a separate pallet.
Title: Re: Zee's Shop Beginnings
Post by: zeeprogrammer on May 29, 2017, 07:31:12 PM
Thanks guys.

BTW it's an asphalt driveway. Maybe 3 weeks old.
If I do have to go over it...I hope it's a bit cool to keep it hard enough.

Hopefully I don't get too excited and forget pics.

I've already got a grin and my hands are starting to get raw from wringing them together in anticipation.

On the down side...it's going to be a long time before I can make anything with it.
Putting the shop together and getting the house back in order is taking a long time.

Still...I'll be able to twiddle knobs.
Title: Re: Zee's Shop Beginnings
Post by: zeeprogrammer on May 30, 2017, 10:50:07 PM
The angst and stress of getting that mill into the garage.
All the suggestions on how to do it.
All the ideas I had to move it.
Truck driver hops out of the truck and says "Hi. You want it in the garage?" and pallet jacks it in. Boom. Done.
 :pinkelephant: :pinkelephant: :pinkelephant:
Gave him a tip anyway. Told him half of it was for a loved one of his.

Here's the truck.

(http://i605.photobucket.com/albums/tt139/zeeprogrammer/Remodel/a_truck_1_zps3uuaauht.jpg) (http://s605.photobucket.com/user/zeeprogrammer/media/Remodel/a_truck_1_zps3uuaauht.jpg.html)

In the garage.

(http://i605.photobucket.com/albums/tt139/zeeprogrammer/Remodel/a_carton_2_zpsf6bodfjh.jpg) (http://s605.photobucket.com/user/zeeprogrammer/media/Remodel/a_carton_2_zpsf6bodfjh.jpg.html)

Stand unpacked. I was surprised by the vise. It's huge! I hope it's a good one. Looks a whole lot better than the one I had.
Which, BTW, I intend to remove the base that allows the vise to rotate. I've never needed/used it on the old one. Any thoughts?

(http://i605.photobucket.com/albums/tt139/zeeprogrammer/Remodel/a_stand_3_zpshnbe65kg.jpg) (http://s605.photobucket.com/user/zeeprogrammer/media/Remodel/a_stand_3_zpshnbe65kg.jpg.html)

Looking inside the crate. Oh boy oh boy oh boy.

(http://i605.photobucket.com/albums/tt139/zeeprogrammer/Remodel/a_crate_4_zpsslfqe6ly.jpg) (http://s605.photobucket.com/user/zeeprogrammer/media/Remodel/a_crate_4_zpsslfqe6ly.jpg.html)

The mill. Still all folded up.

(http://i605.photobucket.com/albums/tt139/zeeprogrammer/Remodel/a_mill_5_zpsunsf5rvc.jpg) (http://s605.photobucket.com/user/zeeprogrammer/media/Remodel/a_mill_5_zpsunsf5rvc.jpg.html)

Some goodies that came with. I like the tool box that came with it.
11 R-8 collets. (I had 7 for the old mill).
And a clamping set.

(http://i605.photobucket.com/albums/tt139/zeeprogrammer/Remodel/a_goodie_zpsellqdfay.jpg) (http://s605.photobucket.com/user/zeeprogrammer/media/Remodel/a_goodie_zpsellqdfay.jpg.html)

Everything arrived in excellent shape.
Thanks everyone for your interest and help.

I won't be able to get this into the shop until this weekend.  :'(
Title: Re: Zee's Shop Beginnings
Post by: wagnmkr on May 30, 2017, 11:32:00 PM
Happy Birthday To Me ... Happy Birthday To Me .... Oh ... right ... that's your house, and your garage. OOPS
Title: Re: Zee's Shop Beginnings
Post by: Walsheng on May 31, 2017, 12:17:34 AM
Didn't have time to check all day and spent all day wondering how you made out.  Very glad it went well for you.  I have a real horror story regarding UPS Freight that I didn't want to share with you before you got yours delivered!
I have the same mill only the Grizzly version and I am very happy with it.  It replaced a mini-mill I had and the difference is night and day.  I have the same engine hoist also, very handy.
Glad it went so well.

John
Title: Re: Zee's Shop Beginnings
Post by: crueby on May 31, 2017, 12:20:14 AM
Ohboyohboyohboy.....!


 :pinkelephant:
Title: Re: Zee's Shop Beginnings
Post by: b.lindsey on May 31, 2017, 12:29:09 AM
Great news Zee, safely delivered, in place and most importantly no pulled backs or strained muscles. Were you expecting all the goodies that came with it or was that a surprise? Looks good and am happy for you. Maybe until the weekend arrives, you can go out and fondle it a bit. How long till the lathe arrives??

Bill
Title: Re: Zee's Shop Beginnings
Post by: Dave Otto on May 31, 2017, 12:42:16 AM
Congrats Zee!
I'm glad everything went well for you; it looks like a very nice addition to the new shop.


Dave
Title: Re: Zee's Shop Beginnings
Post by: zeeprogrammer on May 31, 2017, 12:46:29 AM
Thanks all. Very exciting.

@wagnmkr: Nope. Right house. My birthday.

@John: I'm glad you didn't tell me. And yes...the difference with the mini-mill is tremendous. It's amazing.

@Chris: Watch your elves around Christmas time. T's cookies are a contender.

@Bill: The tools were not so much a surprise as the box they came in. And the vise was a big surprise as I expected something small. The lathe is something like 5-8 weeks out.
Fondling has begun. I've been out to the garage, seems like every 10 minutes, checking something out, moving a knob, or trying to figure out what this or that is for.

@Dave: Thanks!

Overall the surprise was the quality compared to the mini-mill I had. Vise has smooth surfaces, tools are nicer, collets look higher quality, paint job looks great. I'm pretty pleased. No doubt it will be a pleasure to run.

Had a scare too. I was reading the manual and it talked about a 230V motor. What!?!? I'm not set up for that. It scared me because I realized I hadn't really checked the specs for that on the website. And guess what...I couldn't find it. But the plug is 110 and a little googling confirms 110V.

Hands still smell of oil and grease. Wonderful.
Title: Re: Zee's Shop Beginnings
Post by: 90LX_Notch on May 31, 2017, 01:33:26 AM
Cograts Carl.  I'm looking forward to your first project with it.

-Bob
Title: Re: Zee's Shop Beginnings
Post by: crueby on May 31, 2017, 02:00:31 AM
.....

@Chris: Watch your elves around Christmas time. T's cookies are a contender.
....
Yum!  Ill be the (slightly) taller elf at the back...
Title: Re: Zee's Shop Beginnings
Post by: Flyboy Jim on May 31, 2017, 02:54:12 AM
Wow this is great Zee!   :cartwheel:

It's really going to be fun watching your shop evolve.  :popcorn:

Jim

PS: I just noticed that Precision Mathews seems to have an updated website.
Title: Re: Zee's Shop Beginnings
Post by: Kim on May 31, 2017, 06:07:34 AM
Congratulations Zee!
Hope you can get it nestled into your shop and setup soon! :)
Kim
Title: Re: Zee's Shop Beginnings
Post by: Jo on May 31, 2017, 07:31:55 AM
:cartwheel:


I think that looks in the way there, that would start to annoy me  :thinking:, best start by moving the cabinet into the workshop out of the way. That will let you check out the intended location....

Then you could hide all those tools in it...

Then if you move the mill and lift in onto its base the engine crane could be put away and you could dispose of all the rubbish, it would looks so much neater and tidy and there would be so much more space  ;)

(and the Mill would have made it into the workshop for easy of fondling  ;D )

Jo
Title: Re: Zee's Shop Beginnings
Post by: Jasonb on May 31, 2017, 10:32:51 AM
Looks good Zee, worth it for the toolbox alone.

I'd consign the swivel base to the back of the cabinet stand, funny enough I used my base the other day forr the first time in 10years.
Title: Re: Zee's Shop Beginnings
Post by: steamer on May 31, 2017, 12:03:44 PM
Nice looking Mill Zee!!!!

Dave
Title: Re: Zee's Shop Beginnings
Post by: kvom on May 31, 2017, 12:43:45 PM
Looks good Zee, worth it for the toolbox alone.

I'd consign the swivel base to the back of the cabinet stand, funny enough I used my base the other day forr the first time in 10years.

I never used mine either and sold it years back.
Title: Re: Zee's Shop Beginnings
Post by: Don1966 on May 31, 2017, 01:51:11 PM
Good to see things are happening for you buddy and enjoy your new toys and shop. You earned them..... :ThumbsUp:


 :drinking-41:
Don
Title: Re: Zee's Shop Beginnings
Post by: zeeprogrammer on May 31, 2017, 10:27:54 PM
Thanks all.

And huzzah! I made my first gouge on the machine today.  :pinkelephant:
Reminds me of when I got my mini-mill and immediately drilled two divots into the bed.

Went to the garage to twirl a knob so I can see how far the bed travels to the left. The intent was to help understand where to place the mill in the shop relative to the south wall.
It did seem a little tight. And then I noticed a bit of swarf...curly metal near the column.
Hm...some leftover shaving. An old test perhaps?
Twirled a bit more. Shaving got bigger. Uh-oh.
Should have moved the table away from the column first.
It was rubbing against the support for the column's flexible cover.
Nice little gouge on the back along an aluminum covering.  :'(
Moved the table out and all was well. (And surprisingly easy to move.)

Can't see it unless you're behind the machine and know what to look for.

For me, this is a good sign. I always count on an initial boo-boo and if this is it...no biggie.
Hence, the happy dance.

Title: Re: Zee's Shop Beginnings
Post by: crueby on May 31, 2017, 11:06:52 PM
No pictures of that first "project"??


Sigh.


 :Lol:
Title: Re: Zee's Shop Beginnings
Post by: zeeprogrammer on June 02, 2017, 01:23:07 AM
No pictures of that first "project"??

Nah. You've seen plenty of swarf before.
But here's something...

I got the mill into the shop today...

The strap was well rated but I still worried about using only one.

(http://i605.photobucket.com/albums/tt139/zeeprogrammer/Remodel/Mill%20Lift_zpsagvaplyf.jpg) (http://s605.photobucket.com/user/zeeprogrammer/media/Remodel/Mill%20Lift_zpsagvaplyf.jpg.html)

Bolted down. Still some cleaning, oiling, leveling, and calibration to do.

(http://i605.photobucket.com/albums/tt139/zeeprogrammer/Remodel/Mill%20Set_zpsuvgagnn4.jpg) (http://s605.photobucket.com/user/zeeprogrammer/media/Remodel/Mill%20Set_zpsuvgagnn4.jpg.html)

And here's the project Chris. Metal always wins. My hand slipped. I didn't notice until the wrench I was using started getting pretty sticky.  ;D

(http://i605.photobucket.com/albums/tt139/zeeprogrammer/Remodel/Metal%20Always%20Wins_zps6xwqi5yf.jpg) (http://s605.photobucket.com/user/zeeprogrammer/media/Remodel/Metal%20Always%20Wins_zps6xwqi5yf.jpg.html)

For me, this represents another huzzah  :pinkelephant:
A little benign damage to the mill...a little benign damage to me...yep. All the t's are being crossed and i's dotted.
Title: Re: Zee's Shop Beginnings
Post by: b.lindsey on June 02, 2017, 01:30:26 AM
Ouch, hope its not too deep Zee. The mill looks very nice on its stand!!  The shop is taking shape already.

Bill
Title: Re: Zee's Shop Beginnings
Post by: 90LX_Notch on June 02, 2017, 01:39:00 AM
Cool zee.  Now you and the mill are "blood brothers".

-Bob
Title: Re: Zee's Shop Beginnings
Post by: Don1966 on June 02, 2017, 01:38:09 PM
Yeah Ouch buddy, that looks like it's deep. No pain no gain huh? The mill looks great and some DRO's also, cool Zee...... :ThumbsUp:


 :cheers:
Don
Title: Re: Zee's Shop Beginnings
Post by: Dreeves on June 02, 2017, 02:42:44 PM
Congrats on the new shop and Mill.  :cheers:

Dave
Title: Re: Zee's Shop Beginnings
Post by: gerritv on June 02, 2017, 11:30:10 PM
Once the machine wins then all is well for the future.
Title: Re: Zee's Shop Beginnings
Post by: Walsheng on June 06, 2017, 03:23:42 PM
The one modification I have done to my mill was to add an extension to the arm holding the DRO.  It was just too close to the handles and I kept banging my clumsy hands on it.  I could have just made a longer arm but the extension put the readout up another inch and in a more comfortable position to read (I'm 5 feet 12" tall and I hate bending over!)

John
Title: Re: Zee's Shop Beginnings
Post by: zeeprogrammer on June 11, 2017, 01:04:52 AM
Interesting John.
I'm wonder what the length of your original arm is. Mine is 14" (355mm) and doesn't look like it will be problem.
But raising it's height is something for me to think about.
I used to be 5 feet 14" but I'm getting closer to your height of 5 feet 12" now.  ;D

And, like you, I hate bending over...unless I espy a goodie.
Title: Re: Zee's Shop Beginnings
Post by: crueby on June 11, 2017, 01:15:49 AM
Interesting John.
I'm wonder what the length of your original arm is. Mine is 14" (355mm) and doesn't look like it will be problem.
But raising it's height is something for me to think about.
I used to be 5 feet 14" but I'm getting closer to your height of 5 feet 12" now.  ;D

And, like you, I hate bending over...unless I espy a goodie.
THAT'S why the shop elves stay away from your shop, you're too tall, Zee! They don't like anyone over 4'19"... :lolb:
Title: Re: Zee's Shop Beginnings
Post by: Walsheng on June 11, 2017, 01:48:21 AM
Zee:  The original arm on mine is about 14" and with the readout mounted in the middle it puts the side about 6" closer to the machine.  The gap between the edge of the readout and the crank handle got too close and I kept whacking my clumsy mitt on it.
I decided on raising it up an inch by very carefully looking through my scrap pile and coming up with a hunk of 1/2" x 1" and said bingo, engineered perfectly.
I was for years 5 foot 12" and with age a very bad knee I went down to 5 foot 11".  I had my knee replaced with some sensible stainless steel and polyethylene and with that and a lot of physical therapy and all around re-alignment I am back up to 5 foot 12"!

Have you made any chips with it yet or are you still on the admire and fondle stage?

John
Title: Re: Zee's Shop Beginnings
Post by: zeeprogrammer on June 11, 2017, 12:37:36 PM
Have you made any chips with it yet or are you still on the admire and fondle stage?

Still admiring and fondling.  ;D

Actually...still getting shop in place. I'm moving up from the basement.
And there's a lot of distractions. The house remodeling has meant spending time getting all the rooms as well as the outside done.
It doesn't help it's the beginning of summer.
Today I have to build a bunch of tomato cages out of livestock panels for T.
Title: Re: Zee's Shop Beginnings
Post by: Tennessee Whiskey on June 22, 2017, 01:26:36 PM
Well, are you still working on those tomato cages :facepalm:? What's going on here man? You can't just leave us hanging.

 :pics:

We need updates

Cletus
Title: Re: Zee's Shop Beginnings
Post by: zeeprogrammer on June 23, 2017, 02:04:28 AM
Well, are you still working on those tomato cages :facepalm:? What's going on here man? You can't just leave us hanging.
We need updates

Sorry about that. Been pretty busy.

I'm not happy with the pics. I don't seem to have good luck with my phone camera. I need to get out the better camera. But here goes...

Here's a shot of the tomato cages. This job goes on the list "I'll never do that again".
Used bolt cutters to cut the 8 feet by 50" panels into two 7 feet by 18" panels.
I've not used a bolt cutter before and didn't realize I was hitting one hand with the other when I made a cut.
After hundreds of cuts...I have a bruise from my index finger to about 1/3 of the way up my forearm. Not a good thing.
I can hardly turn the keys in my truck.
This is a typical problem of getting older...you trip, hit something, turn an ankle, whatever, and it shows up two days later and you can't remember what you did to get such a bruise.
18 panels. Then folded each in half (not easy!) and used two to create a cage. 9 cages.

But she was ecstatic. Loved them. Thinks they will last a lifetime now. Right.

(http://i605.photobucket.com/albums/tt139/zeeprogrammer/Remodel/1_Cages_zpswsby1ovw.jpg) (http://s605.photobucket.com/user/zeeprogrammer/media/Remodel/1_Cages_zpswsby1ovw.jpg.html)

A shot of the snap peas. We've been eating snap peas for days now. They are great. I take a bag to work for lunch.
T and my eldest daughter have been making wonderful dishes with them.

(http://i605.photobucket.com/albums/tt139/zeeprogrammer/Remodel/2_Peas_zpsynypazob.jpg) (http://s605.photobucket.com/user/zeeprogrammer/media/Remodel/2_Peas_zpsynypazob.jpg.html)

A shot of the boxes containing snap dragons and a zucchini plant.

(http://i605.photobucket.com/albums/tt139/zeeprogrammer/Remodel/3_Snap_zpslzhlkzj8.jpg) (http://s605.photobucket.com/user/zeeprogrammer/media/Remodel/3_Snap_zpslzhlkzj8.jpg.html)

A shot of the boxes with loads of different lettuces.

(http://i605.photobucket.com/albums/tt139/zeeprogrammer/Remodel/4_Lettuce_zpsv86vjkmn.jpg) (http://s605.photobucket.com/user/zeeprogrammer/media/Remodel/4_Lettuce_zpsv86vjkmn.jpg.html)

And now we come to some shots of the current status of the shop. Not much going on.
Still moving everything around the house and setting up.
About all I can do is look at the mill and dream.

(http://i605.photobucket.com/albums/tt139/zeeprogrammer/Remodel/5_Now1_zpscmtqggml.jpg) (http://s605.photobucket.com/user/zeeprogrammer/media/Remodel/5_Now1_zpscmtqggml.jpg.html)

(http://i605.photobucket.com/albums/tt139/zeeprogrammer/Remodel/5_Now2_zpsnijmtcak.jpg) (http://s605.photobucket.com/user/zeeprogrammer/media/Remodel/5_Now2_zpsnijmtcak.jpg.html)

(http://i605.photobucket.com/albums/tt139/zeeprogrammer/Remodel/5_Now3_zpsb8j8oruh.jpg) (http://s605.photobucket.com/user/zeeprogrammer/media/Remodel/5_Now3_zpsb8j8oruh.jpg.html)

But I'm getting there. A few more weeks before the lathe shows up.

It looks like it will be a while before I can start cutting.
I'd forgotten that my summers generally shorten shop time.

P.S. Meathead number 2 is going to ask my eldest for marriage. While she was on business he came by to...well I can't say he asked my blessing so much as he said he plans to marry my daughter. That's fine. I did the same thing. And he knows I have a shop with interesting tools that don't have to be applied just to metal.  ;D

P.P.S. About to go back to Missouri and drive my folks out here so they can visit their grand-daughters and great-grand-daughter. They won't fly.
I suspect it's the last time they'll make it out here.
They are good people.

Better than most of you.  :lolb:
I mean all of you.

I mean all of you put together.  :lolb: :lolb:
Title: Re: Zee's Shop Beginnings
Post by: b.lindsey on June 23, 2017, 02:16:13 AM
Great update Zee. Thanks!! And for the pictures too.

Bill
Title: Re: Zee's Shop Beginnings
Post by: Kim on June 23, 2017, 03:24:36 AM
Great update Zee!

Very nice gardens.  And superb tomato cages!   :D

Nice shop too! Is the lathe going on the same wall as the mill?  On the other side of the tool chest?

Kim
Title: Re: Zee's Shop Beginnings
Post by: crueby on June 23, 2017, 03:26:50 AM
Nice garden layout! But couldn't you get the garden gnomes to do that work?   :Lol:
Title: Re: Zee's Shop Beginnings
Post by: Steamer5 on June 23, 2017, 04:41:38 AM
Hi Zee,
 Bet T is very happy with the garden! Looks like everything is growing just fine! I better not show R those tomatoe cages or I know what I'll be doing!

Oh the work shop is coming along to!

Cheers Kerrin
Title: Re: Zee's Shop Beginnings
Post by: Pete49 on June 23, 2017, 04:47:27 AM
Tomato cages???? Do you get big fruit fly there or do the plants need to be beaten into submission? Down here I just put stakes (wood not meat) in to hold them up.
Pete
Title: Re: Zee's Shop Beginnings
Post by: Jo on June 23, 2017, 08:17:45 AM
Caged tomatoes what type do you grow over there? They must be real mean if you have to cage them... they are not crossed with chilli are they  ::)

They are good people.

Better than most of you.  :lolb:
I mean all of you.

I mean all of you put together.  :lolb: :lolb:

 :'(

Jo
Title: Re: Zee's Shop Beginnings
Post by: Tennessee Whiskey on June 23, 2017, 10:59:41 AM
Zee, it's looking great man. I see you have been busy around the old homestead. Meathead: now you are telling your age. Now that I think about it; y'all would have been about the same age and I can see you with that "look", Frye boots, hair do, mustache, and all. On the other hand; you are beginning to sound a lot like Archie, what with calling him meathead and then that closing statement concerning the lot of us :mischief: :lolb: :lolb: . Keep your shovel shiny.

Cletus
Title: Re: Zee's Shop Beginnings
Post by: mklotz on June 23, 2017, 03:14:45 PM
Lots of seeming bolt cutter jobs are more easily done with an angle grinder.  Cutting multi-strand steel cable is one good example as is cutting hefty padlocks.
Title: Re: Zee's Shop Beginnings
Post by: crueby on June 23, 2017, 03:32:23 PM
Lots of seeming bolt cutter jobs are more easily done with an angle grinder.  Cutting multi-strand steel cable is one good example as is cutting hefty padlocks.
Former career as a burgler?! Hmmmm...
Title: Re: Zee's Shop Beginnings
Post by: mklotz on June 23, 2017, 03:57:26 PM
Lots of seeming bolt cutter jobs are more easily done with an angle grinder.  Cutting multi-strand steel cable is one good example as is cutting hefty padlocks.
Former career as a burgler?! Hmmmm...

No, not a burglar (although I do know how to spell it).  Just a guy who has had to cut open a lot of locks for people too dumb to remember combinations or where they left their keys.  Many cable locks will even yield to a cutting disk in a Dremel although the HF 4.5" brute is faster though much noisier.

At $15 a pop the HF 4.5" is a fantastic bargain.  Cheap enough to have two - one with grinding wheel and another with cutting disk - so I don't have to change wheels.  They last forever but you do need ear protection for extended use.
Title: Re: Zee's Shop Beginnings
Post by: DICKEYBIRD on June 23, 2017, 04:32:06 PM
No, not a burglar (although I do know how to spell it).(Snicker, snicker)
Title: Re: Zee's Shop Beginnings
Post by: crueby on June 23, 2017, 05:01:59 PM
No, not a burglar (although I do know how to spell it).(Snicker, snicker)

Picky picky...

Thats what I get for typing too fast. Though, guess I didn't remember the splelling of thet wurd...   :Lol:
Title: Re: Zee's Shop Beginnings
Post by: Tennessee Whiskey on June 23, 2017, 05:04:28 PM
Just typical Marv. Ranks right up there with Jesus and Congress  :lolb: :lolb:

Cletus
Title: Re: Zee's Shop Beginnings
Post by: Walsheng on June 23, 2017, 09:26:29 PM
I am so bad at spelling I finally joined P.U.N.K.  For those not familiar it stands for People Who Can't Spell!

Thanks,

John
Title: Re: Zee's Shop Beginnings
Post by: crueby on June 23, 2017, 09:32:18 PM
I am so bad at spelling I finally joined P.U.N.K.  For those not familiar it stands for People Who Can't Spell!

Thanks,

John


Perfect!!
Title: Re: Zee's Shop Beginnings
Post by: zeeprogrammer on June 23, 2017, 10:34:49 PM
Thanks all.

@Kim - yes the lathe will be on the same wall next to the tool chest. But I may rearrange things once I have everything in place and start a routine.

@Pete - you have no idea how hard I tried to convince her to get 'normal' cages. But it was a no go. They don't last and aren't tall enough.

Caged tomatoes what type do you grow over there? They must be real mean if you have to cage them... they are not crossed with chilli are they  ::)

Kellogg's Breakfast
Jaune Flamme
Arkansas Traveler
Federle
Sheboygan
Black Cherry
Blue Beauty
Cream Sausage
Grappoli D'Iverno

I know nothing about them except how to eat them.
I never ate tomatoes before I met T. I still won't eat any tomato that isn't hers.


They are good people.

Better than most of you.  :lolb:
I mean all of you.

I mean all of you put together.  :lolb: :lolb:

 :'(



I'm just saying they're at the top  ;D
This group follows right behind (with you at top).
There is a great world of idiots behind you all.

@Marv - I tried an angle grindre (at least that's what I thought it was) but it took too long and scared T. The wire is pretty thick - not the usual tomato cage wire.
and I can see you with that "look", Frye boots, hair do, mustache, and all.

Who gave you that photo?  ;D

I used to read Mother Earth News too.
And 'The Good Life' (later the 'Good Neighbors' ) was a must see every week.

Never cared for Earth shoes though.
Loved my windbreaker.

And then there was the CPO jacket.

I now leave you with this...

"Does..your....chewing gum lose it's flavor..."

 :lolb:
I know I got a couple of you.
Title: Re: Zee's Shop Beginnings
Post by: wagnmkr on June 23, 2017, 10:48:58 PM
Yup you did ... that'll be in my head all night now ... Thanks :lolb:

Tom
Title: Re: Zee's Shop Beginnings
Post by: Tennessee Whiskey on June 23, 2017, 11:12:13 PM
Never listened to Momma anyway, yeah I swallowed it in spite ( hey, Lou is that old  :lolb: :lolb:)

Cletus
Title: Re: Zee's Shop Beginnings
Post by: zeeprogrammer on July 23, 2017, 08:30:32 PM
Hi all,

My apologies for being away for so long. Unfortunately this will continue for some time yet.

Firstly, I especially apologize to Jo for having missed the whole thing and not being here in support. I am so glad everything went well.  :wine1:

It's been some summer. Although the house construction is done, there is much yet to do in getting things back in place and filling up new places.
Flew to Missouri and drove my folks here to see the family. They won't fly. Then drove them back and flew home.
I love my folks but two days in the car with them each way...whew.
Dad turns 91 this December and Mom is 88. I hope to see them again in December.

Eldest daughter got engaged. I like the meathead. He's a good meathead. Wedding appears to be Dec of 2018. Why they want to wait so long is beyond me.

Should have the lathe within 2 or 3 weeks. Haven't done anything with the mill.

Remember the tomato cages I made out of livestock panels? 1st picture shows progress so far. The top of the cages are 6' 10" from the ground. Wow.
The bed in the background has cucumbers growing up a panel and squash behind that.

2nd picture shows how busy T has been with the garden produce. And that doesn't take into account all we've been eating.
More to come including tomato sauces, dried tomatoes, etc.

I look forward to catching up with everything.

Happy machining!  :cheers:
Title: Re: Zee's Shop Beginnings
Post by: mklotz on July 23, 2017, 08:44:11 PM
Wedding appears to be Dec of 2018. Why they want to wait so long is beyond me.

It takes a long time to plan a reception that will bankrupt you?
Title: Re: Zee's Shop Beginnings
Post by: b.lindsey on July 23, 2017, 08:48:32 PM
Hey, welcome back Zee. The garden as well as its yield both look amazing. Lots more to come no doubt as the summer progresses too.

Bill
Title: Re: Zee's Shop Beginnings
Post by: crueby on July 23, 2017, 09:05:05 PM
Glad you like the Meathead, Archie!   :Lol:
Title: Re: Zee's Shop Beginnings
Post by: Kim on July 23, 2017, 09:39:45 PM
Hi Zee,
Nice to hear from you!  Glad to see things are going well, if somewhat busy.  The gardens and canning all look great.

Make sure and post a picture of your new lathe when it arrives, we'll all be interested!
Kim
Title: Re: Zee's Shop Beginnings
Post by: Jo on July 24, 2017, 08:31:49 AM
Firstly, I especially apologize to Jo for having missed the whole thing and not being here in support. I am so glad everything went well.  :wine1:

Pleased to see you are back and we are both waiting to see your new lathe  ;)

Jo
Title: Re: Zee's Shop Beginnings
Post by: zeeprogrammer on August 02, 2017, 11:53:53 PM
Just a quick update...well no update really. Status perhaps.

Still waiting on the lathe. It's supposed to arrive in port sometime this week. Then to PM and then to me!

In the meantime I'm still working on the shop. Getting cabinets and arranging things.

Trying to work out an air compressor system. I don't need it immediately but need to plan for it. I may, I mean, will need some help on that.

Title: Re: Zee's Shop Beginnings
Post by: crueby on August 03, 2017, 12:04:13 AM
Get the shop elves working out to help lift the lathe!
Title: Re: Zee's Shop Beginnings
Post by: Tennessee Whiskey on August 03, 2017, 12:13:28 AM
So since not much has happened in the shop: how's y'all's tomatoes? It's pitiful here: not even the big producers are having any luck. The old timers don't even have a good reason why  :thinking: :shrug:

Cletus
Title: Re: Zee's Shop Beginnings
Post by: zeeprogrammer on August 03, 2017, 01:32:40 AM
So since not much has happened in the shop: how's y'all's tomatoes? It's pitiful here: not even the big producers are having any luck. The old timers don't even have a good reason why  :thinking: :shrug:

I'll have to get an updated picture. You'll recall the cages I built are about 6 and half feet high. The tomato plants are now taller than that.
I sure hope she can keep up with the produce once it starts coming in.
Most years our kitchen island is covered in tomatoes for weeks and weeks.

BTW...check your email bud. I'm asking for your help.  ;D
Title: Re: Zee's Shop Beginnings
Post by: zeeprogrammer on August 18, 2017, 10:01:53 PM
Attached is today's picture of the tomato plants.

Just a quick update...

Lathe should be delivered Thursday. Friday at the latest.
I hope to use Labor Day Weekend to get the shop to operation.

Was supposed to go down to Nashville today for the eclipse but had another episode with a bile duct blockage in my liver.
Always reminds me of that first 'Alien' movie.
T and daughter went ahead. If feeling better on Sunday I may join them.
Feeling better now but very sore.
Title: Re: Zee's Shop Beginnings
Post by: b.lindsey on August 18, 2017, 11:08:07 PM
Maybe you been eating too many tomaters zee. Hope you feel better soon though.

Bill
Title: Re: Zee's Shop Beginnings
Post by: b.lindsey on August 18, 2017, 11:15:11 PM
As for the eclipse, heard that the state legislature or other powers that be, said that state employees can't use work time to view the eclipse ( yeah right). Thirty minutes later there was an email from one of the vice Chancellor enumerating at length all the safety precautions for viewing it  :lolb:

Bill
Title: Re: Zee's Shop Beginnings
Post by: 90LX_Notch on August 19, 2017, 01:42:09 AM
Nice playhouse Carl.  How do you fit in it?

-Bob
Title: Re: Zee's Shop Beginnings
Post by: zeeprogrammer on August 19, 2017, 02:06:34 AM
Nice playhouse Carl.  How do you fit in it?

-Bob

It is nice but not ours. Neighbor's playhouse. Mine is indoors.  ;D
Title: Re: Zee's Shop Beginnings
Post by: zeeprogrammer on August 26, 2017, 12:31:24 AM
It finally came.
Good grief. This is a monster! Much bigger than I'd thought. What was I thinking?

1st pic is the lathe sitting in the garage. I have to get it into the shop somehow.
2nd pic is the goodies that came with it.
Except I'd also ordered a set of indexing tools (left down corner).

I can't get over how much bigger this is than the mini-lathe I'd had. The faceplate...good grief!

I haven't used anything but gee whiz, the difference in quality from my mini is amazing.

I'm hoping to have the shop operational during Labor Day weekend. More pics then.

I don't know what's worse...T not saying anything..or that askance look she gave me when I started opening the box.  ;D

Nothing else to say but  :pinkelephant: :pinkelephant:
Title: Re: Zee's Shop Beginnings
Post by: Dave Otto on August 26, 2017, 12:42:40 AM
Nice Zee! I'm sure that it will treat you well, and with a little time in front of it it won't seem big at all.
I remember when I brought the Weiler home it replaced a 10x24 belt drive bench lathe, it seemed huge, now not so much.

After all the work on the beautiful remodel you deserve both the shop and new machines, enjoy them my friend!!


Dave
Title: Re: Zee's Shop Beginnings
Post by: crueby on August 26, 2017, 12:49:18 AM
It finally came.
Good grief. This is a monster! Much bigger than I'd thought. What was I thinking?
...
Well, if YOU don't want it, just send it along!    :ROFL:

How bad does your face hurt from all the grinning at the new lathe? Worn the paint off the corners from fondling it?
Title: Re: Zee's Shop Beginnings
Post by: Kim on August 26, 2017, 12:55:45 AM
Congratulations Zee!  She's beautiful!  And looks just like you too. Are you handing out chocolate cigars?   :Lol:

Yes, it does feel a little overwhelming at first, when you're used to a mini lathe.  But you'll get used to it quickly and then never know how you lived with out it!

So, in your picture of all your cool tooling, I see a pin spanner.  What's that for?  I have one for a collet block and one for a keyless chuck (I guess in case it gets on so tight I can't tighten it?)  But I don't see either of those items in your goody pile.  Inquiring minds want to know!  :naughty:

Kim
Title: Re: Zee's Shop Beginnings
Post by: b.lindsey on August 26, 2017, 01:25:36 AM
Congratulations Carl. Looks like a fine machine. Now looking forward to seeing the shop all put together and ready to make something. Have you decided on that first project yet?

Bill
Title: Re: Zee's Shop Beginnings
Post by: gerritv on August 26, 2017, 02:39:49 AM
Congrats Zee, now it is real.
I moved from a Taig lathe to a King 10x22, more or less similar to your machine. FYI my wife and I got it down the outside stairs and onto the workbench so it is not too too heavy :-) Just think before moving.

Enjoy the touchy feely, it doesn't wear off too soon :-)

Gerrit
Title: Re: Zee's Shop Beginnings
Post by: Flyboy Jim on August 26, 2017, 04:38:00 AM
Looks really nice Zee. Congratulations.  :cheers: Looking forward to seeing it sitting in place.

Jim
Title: Re: Zee's Shop Beginnings
Post by: bruedney on August 26, 2017, 06:44:56 AM
It's about time Carl - we've been waiting for ages.

It's great getting new toys ( :facepalm: I mean tools)

You should have seen my wife's face when my 460kg (920lb) lathe arrived. Almost as priceless as when we brought the 1000kg (2000lb) Bridgeport home  :rant:

Can't wait to see them all installed and the Monitor engine finished.

Cheers

Bruce
Title: Re: Zee's Shop Beginnings
Post by: zeeprogrammer on August 26, 2017, 08:23:37 PM
Thanks everyone.

1st pic shows the lathe installed in the shop. Not so hard with the engine hoist but very nerve wracking.
I was happy to see that everything seems to fit.
You can see there's a lot of wall space. I figure on putting up some plywood to hold tools. Maybe a shelf or two.

2nd pic (a different version of one before) shows the goodies that came with the lathe.
@Kim...I still don't know what the pin spanner is for. I should ask Matt about that.

I had some surprises...
Even thought the lathe came with a QC, the original standard 4 tool post was included.
One of the QC tool holders is a knurler.
There's a stop so the tailstock doesn't slide off the end.
The tailstock has a locking lever so no need for a wrench.
(That was a nice surprise. I'd tried to install a lever on my mini but failed.)
Came with blue and white touch up paint. (Which is needed as there are a couple of dings.)

The only bummer was no live center but that's not a biggie.

So a couple of questions (for now)...

1) There's an oil sight glass that looks red. Normal? Is Mobilgear 627 red?
2) Other than lithium grease for gears and leadscrews, maintenance calls out 20W oil for everything else including the ways.
a) Any 20W oil? What are your recommendations?
b) Same for the mill and its table?
3) Any suggestions on what to look for or do in getting these machines ready?
4) I have a combo square with a level in it. Is this sufficient to check lathe twist? I suspect not. (I'm not even sure how to go about that...but that's for another time.)

No running of machines until I get comfortable with the controls, get the oil, clean everything, and see what adjustments are needed.

@Bill. I had some ideas for a first project but now I'm not so sure. We'll see.

Thanks again!

Title: Re: Zee's Shop Beginnings
Post by: wagnmkr on August 26, 2017, 10:27:38 PM
Nice looking lathe zee ... I have a spanner like that with the ER32 collet holder. Does the lathe need running in at certain speeds/time? No instructions with it?

Tom
Title: Re: Zee's Shop Beginnings
Post by: mklotz on August 26, 2017, 11:04:55 PM
You can see there's a lot of wall space. I figure on putting up some plywood to hold tools. Maybe a shelf or two.

Be sure that storage doesn't hold any tools you might be tempted to use while the lathe is running.  Reaching across an operating lathe is a good way to get wound up in your work - literally.
Title: Re: Zee's Shop Beginnings
Post by: Maryak on August 26, 2017, 11:14:48 PM
BZ Zee!!

Regards Bob
Title: Re: Zee's Shop Beginnings
Post by: b.lindsey on August 26, 2017, 11:18:46 PM
That is one upscale shop space Zee. Looks great though and I know you will enjoy it for years to come.

Bill
Title: Re: Zee's Shop Beginnings
Post by: zeeprogrammer on August 27, 2017, 12:02:29 AM
Thanks all.

@Tom. I don't recall running in instructions. But I plan on doing some research. I know of a great video on getting the mill up and calibrated. I suspect I'll find things on the lathe too.

@Marv. Yes. I recall your warnings in an earlier day. Usable tools will be to the far right.

@Bob. Yes. And loads more to do. I need to set up an area to store parts cabinets and hand tools. I also need to get a cart made for the horizontal saw, something made to hold raw material (my biggest problem as I'm not sure where), and maybe an air compressor system.

@Bill. Yep. That's the whole idea. If things go according to plan, I retire next year and we stay here until they come take us away. Having said that, there may be an opportunity that may put off retirement for a bit. But most likely I'll just put in a few more weeks to have a bit more toy money.

oh boy oh boy oh boy!
Title: Re: Zee's Shop Beginnings
Post by: Flyboy Jim on August 27, 2017, 12:37:15 AM
Do we get some pictures of the rest of your shop as it is now? Hint hint! It's going to be fun to see your shop progress.

Jim
Title: Re: Zee's Shop Beginnings
Post by: crueby on August 27, 2017, 12:40:23 AM
Do we get some pictures of the rest of your shop as it is now? Hint hint! It's going to be fun to see your shop progress.

Jim
Yeah, and which cabinet has the chocolate chip cookies for the shop elves?
Title: Re: Zee's Shop Beginnings
Post by: wdeputy on August 27, 2017, 12:54:33 AM
Does that spanner happen to fit the lock nuts on the outboard end of the spindle?
Walt
Title: Re: Zee's Shop Beginnings
Post by: Kim on August 27, 2017, 02:52:26 AM
@Tom. I don't recall running in instructions. But I plan on doing some research. I know of a great video on getting the mill up and calibrated. I suspect I'll find things on the lathe too.

My Grizzly lathe came with a set of "Test Run" instructions, to check all functions, like the automatic feed, direction, thread feed, emergency stop, etc.  After you went through that, it had instructions for a "Spindle Break In" which involved running the spindle in each direction for 10 minutes, for each speed in the gear box.   The instructions say its important to do the break-in before you put any real load on the spindle.  You can find every Grizzly lathe manual on line, so you could look at those and see what the say. But I would expect your lathe would have similar instructions.  Unless Matt did that for you before he shipped it?

Kim
Title: Re: Zee's Shop Beginnings
Post by: Jo on August 27, 2017, 08:28:34 AM
That looks useful  :naughty:

So Zee where are you going to put your tool holders when you are using the lathe? What's the plans with that vast hole between the legs of the lathe, are you going to add some shelves or drawers?  Have you thought about pulling out one of those drawers to the left of the lathe and putting a piece of wood on it to provide a bit of tool/odds and ends hoarding space while doing a job... Lathe oil: I use 30 grade Hydraulic oil, sounds like yours wants something a little heavier.

Why is the emergency stop button on the back of the lathe  :noidea:. Don't you love chuck guards, they all come with them (and interlocks to make sure we use them ::) ) My only machine that still has its guard on it is Big C but if anything came flying off that I can't see the guard making a lot of difference.

You are going to enjoy learning how to play with your new toy  :popcorn:

We also need to see the casting sets for the engines you are going to make on it  ;D

Jo
Title: Re: Zee's Shop Beginnings
Post by: mklotz on August 27, 2017, 03:47:39 PM
It's probably too inelegant for your gentleman's shop but it might be useful until you can find and fund a welder to make a Heppelwhite reproduction roller stand for your horizontal saw...

When I bought mine I discovered that the thin folded sheet metal legs were adequate for holding the saw off the floor but totally unsuited to support it for wheeling about.  These saws need to be movable for a lot of reasons so what I did was to use a Sawzall to cut a pallet in half, attached four hardware store casters to the pallet half and set the saw, minus its crappy as-supplied wheels,  on the pallet.

My arrangement was only meant to be a stopgap until I could devise something better but today, some quarter century or so later, it's still out there in Garaj Mahal doing its job very nicely.

A bonus is that the pallet half is wide enough that it can hold a rectangular plastic trash can under the cutoff point to catch cut off pieces and saw swarf.
Title: Re: Zee's Shop Beginnings
Post by: zeeprogrammer on August 27, 2017, 04:05:41 PM
@Jim. Working on pictures. Hopefully this evening.
@Walt. Re pin spanner. I'll check when I take the chuck off.
@Kim. Thanks. I'll look for more about running in.
@Jo. Tool holders probably above and towards right end of lathe. Nice thought about that space under the lathe. Maybe something that rolls out. I'm trying to avoid having anything too low. Usually not a problem now (a back issue flares up once in a while) but at some point I could really hurt myself. Also nice idea about using a drawer with a piece of wood to hold bits and pieces. Most likely though it will make that drawer useless.  :) I do have one of those hospitable roll-around tables that adjust up and down. The kind where the wheels go under the bed and the table allows the patient to eat. Very handy. I also have a roll-around lamp with magnifier. I intend to do something like Marv did to have tools handy.

Regarding the chuck guard...I do wonder if it's worth it. How does everyone else feel about them? Although easy to just leave up. I was also considering not putting the backsplash on but for now it should be okay. It was worthless and in the way on the mini.

Still wondering about an earlier question regarding the oil in the machine and the oil sight. I was surprised to see red. Are some oils red?

@Marv. No welder for me. I don't know how and would have to rent something. Buying one for a likely one-time use isn't worthwhile. My plan is to do something similar that you did. Most likely a chunk of plywood with some wheels and a way to lock the saw to it. You've also given me an idea on how to minimize the mess of saw swarf.

Thanks all.
Title: Re: Zee's Shop Beginnings
Post by: zeeprogrammer on August 27, 2017, 05:38:58 PM
Some pictures...
Apologies for the length of post.

1st: Machine wall. Which you've seen. I'll put some plywood above the right side of lathe to hold some tools. Probably pictures above the headstock. Shelves above the tool chest. And a bit of plywood to the left of the mill for the clamping kit and some tools. In the foreground is a HF workbench with vise. Mainly for assembly.

2nd: Southeast corner. Another HF workbench. Mainly for hand tools and parts cabinets. Above that will be some plywood to hold wrenches, drivers, etc.

3rd: Desk. I use a workstation laptop (Dell M4700) with a 2nd monitor. The other is a small TV. A LulzBot Mini 3d printer to the right. Will probably add shelves (I need some book room) and pictures on the walls.

4th: Southwest corner. You can see that hospital tray I was talking about as well as the rolling light. The eagle eye might spot a small shop vacuum next to the mill. That will go away. Tends to clog easily on curly swarf. I need to move the bigger one.

5th: Both lab benches were won at a raffle at work. Near one is general purpose. Measuring, model building, etc. To the left is an drafting table that rolls around. The air compressor will go away.

6th: Electronics bench. You can see I made some probe holders with the 3d printer. Next photo has the project.

7th: FrankenBoard. Essentially the guts of a 3d printer kit but a different electronics board. I've been having fun developing a small robotics workcell system.

8th: North wall curio cabinet. T didn't want it in the living room (now a dining room) so I grabbed it. Nice for holding memories - some of the engines I've built, the cups and saucers my grandparents in Munich used to use, some bookends we got in Hawaii, souvenirs from when we lived in France and Germany, picture of my mom's house in Dortmund where she was born, my dad's toy truck, and various gifts from the kids. I used to be a robotics engineer and developed robot controllers for a company that made table-top robots and accessories for schools and training systems. The one on top of the hutch is an early version.





Title: Re: Zee's Shop Beginnings
Post by: zeeprogrammer on August 27, 2017, 05:42:25 PM
And a few more...

1st: Just outside the shop door is my sink. I need to add towel holders and soap. I'll also be putting a fire extinguisher out there.

2nd: Looking outside of east window.

3rd: Looking outside west window.

I need to put up some bird feeders.

I moved my grinder to the garage. I rarely use it and I'd rather have the mess out there. Same for a belt sander.

I figure the horizontal saw will go behind or to the side of the middle workbench. That leaves figuring out where to put raw material.

That's it so far. Thanks for your interest.
Ideas are always welcome.
Title: Re: Zee's Shop Beginnings
Post by: Tennessee Whiskey on August 27, 2017, 05:43:45 PM
Yeah, I know I'm late. Congratulations Zee, it looks great. The space under the lathe is a great place to put anything on wheels under, i.e. Shop vac, stool, cart, etc. However, swarf will accumulate there so it really does to be something movable. Personally, I'd delete the guard altogether. Maybe they are good for a teaching environment, but, we are at the age that most times we are going to know what will hurt us ( I said most times) . Yes, some oils are red. In regards to the breakin, I would read the manual extensively ( I know men hate to do that) or consult with the seller. My breakin was just like Kim's and I believe we even had to change the oil after the run in. I'm really anxious to see how the chucks change out. There are so many variations to "direct mount" . I use a heavy weight Rubbermade cart to lay my tools on as the job calls for and progresses. Then it's a simple roll back to the tool box to put them up. If I may make a suggestion: with the looks of your shop I would look for old " commercial " wooden cabinets and shelving. In your area they should be plentiful and they are usually really well built. I just think it would fit the gentalmanly decor  :cheers:. Anyhoo, that's my input and awaiting first swarf. Hey, do we get cigars  :lolb:

Cletus
Title: Re: Zee's Shop Beginnings
Post by: crueby on August 27, 2017, 05:53:15 PM
What a great setup!


For raw material storage, I'm currently using a set of shelves, with lips on front end, up one wall on the back of what was a closet. Works, but tough to see small rod and pick out pieces. I was thinking about the flat file drawer units they use for artwork, plans, etc. But, the ready made ones cost a fortune, may find some heavy duty full extension slides and make my own.
Title: Re: Zee's Shop Beginnings
Post by: Flyboy Jim on August 27, 2017, 06:47:45 PM
Great pictures and write-up Zee. You're going to love spending time out there.  :ThumbsUp:

Jim
Title: Re: Zee's Shop Beginnings
Post by: zeeprogrammer on August 27, 2017, 08:22:18 PM
 :'(

No go. Lathe won't turn on.
I checked both fuses and the socket.
Cover's interlock switch seems physically fine.

Manual says 220V but the plug is for 110V and that's what I'd ordered.

Don't know what I could be missing.

If anyone has suggestions...bring them on.
I'll contact Matt tomorrow.

 :'( :'( :'(

Too early to be  :cussing:
Title: Re: Zee's Shop Beginnings
Post by: gerritv on August 27, 2017, 08:24:58 PM
My solution for shorter pieces. Built from 2 7' long 16" wide shelves as uprights, a top, bottom and middle piece screwed in with 1/8 Masonite for the back. Basically a typical kitchen cabinet style box. Made shelves out of sam material with standard kitchen drawer slides. Didn't bother with sides or backs on the slides, it all seems to work fine with gravity holding the metal bits in place. I got the inspiration from someone on another forum.

Drill rod I store vertically in some guides, with tubes at bottom. As seen to right of drawer cabinet.

For the longer pieces that you can see cluttering the wall in behind there will be a dolly with 2 grids, one above the other, to hold things more or less upright. Might do something different for the really long stuff, over 4'.

I bought all this material from an estate, it is enabling to have stock on hand, you just look for the most suitable piece for your part.

Gerrit
Title: Re: Zee's Shop Beginnings
Post by: gerritv on August 27, 2017, 08:26:43 PM
:'(

No go. Lathe won't turn on.
I checked both fuses and the socket.
Cover's interlock switch seems physically fine.

Manual says 220V but the plug is for 110V and that's what I'd ordered.

Don't know what I could be missing.

If anyone has suggestions...bring them on.
I'll contact Matt tomorrow.

 :'( :'( :'(

Too early to be  :cussing:

Is the emergency panic switch pulled out? Did you press the rh button to enable the contactor (not sure if your lathe has that button or not.)
Title: Re: Zee's Shop Beginnings
Post by: zeeprogrammer on August 27, 2017, 08:34:15 PM
Hi Gerrit,

Yep. Emergency panic switch is pulled out. (I actually tried both ways as insane as that is.)
I did notice it was a bit loose and had tightened that up.

Oh! And yes...it's plugged in.  ;D

Reminds me of poor dad. He called because he couldn't get his printer to work. It was plugged in and he kept telling me it was connected to the computer.
After about an hour on the phone I asked for the 10th time if he was sure it was plugged into the computer and he said 'yes. here, I'll disconnect it. It's got about 15 pins."

15 pins? Should be USB dad. Did you not notice your monitor turn off? No he said. He was behind the thing.
Printer wasn't connected.

I'd also noticed the fuses were a bit loose. Makes me think something inside may be loose. I don't want go inside just yet though. I'd put a call into Matt before I do that.

P.S. I like your storage idea. I'll give that some thought.
Title: Re: Zee's Shop Beginnings
Post by: b.lindsey on August 27, 2017, 08:39:17 PM
I know it seems obvious but does the 110V outlet have power? (Circuit Breaker)

Bill
Title: Re: Zee's Shop Beginnings
Post by: zeeprogrammer on August 27, 2017, 08:46:01 PM
I know it seems obvious but does the 110V outlet have power? (Circuit Breaker)

Yes. Tested by plugging something in. Tried both receptacles.

Wondering if it's worthwhile to take the interlock off the cover and just plug it in. Just to make sure it's getting inserted correctly.
Title: Re: Zee's Shop Beginnings
Post by: mklotz on August 27, 2017, 08:55:51 PM
Is it possible that the motor has a dedicated circuit breaker of its own with a reset button?  I only ask because I have a tool that has that feature.
Title: Re: Zee's Shop Beginnings
Post by: zeeprogrammer on August 27, 2017, 09:02:27 PM
Is it possible that the motor has a dedicated circuit breaker of its own with a reset button?  I only ask because I have a tool that has that feature.

Not that I can see. One fuse in back (line fuse). One fuse in front (motor fuse). The interlock under the cover. The switches.

Granted, the manual is not accurate (as it calls out 220 for a 110 system) but I doubt the schematic would be very different.

If the motor had its own system (other than the fuse), the rest of the system should still light up.
But there's absolutely nothing.

Thanks.

There's not a lot to these systems. I think my next step is to contact the vendor tomorrow.
Title: Re: Zee's Shop Beginnings
Post by: Flyboy Jim on August 27, 2017, 09:05:37 PM
:'(

No go. Lathe won't turn on.
I checked both fuses and the socket.
Cover's interlock switch seems physically fine.

Manual says 220V but the plug is for 110V and that's what I'd ordered.

Don't know what I could be missing.

If anyone has suggestions...bring them on.
I'll contact Matt tomorrow.

 :'( :'( :'(

Too early to be  :cussing:

Does the lathe have any kind of indicator to show that power is getting to the control box?

Jim

PS: I see you answered my question while I was typing.
Title: Re: Zee's Shop Beginnings
Post by: zeeprogrammer on August 27, 2017, 09:15:05 PM
Thanks.

Nothing for it but to contact Matt. I've sent an email.

I hope to have a quick cure to this bum-itis.

I'll keep you posted. I sure hope it's one these  :facepalm:.

In the meantime...I have a bit more sobbing to do.
Title: Re: Zee's Shop Beginnings
Post by: b.lindsey on August 27, 2017, 09:34:50 PM
Its probably something simple Zee. Surely Matt tested the unit before sending it out. Meanwhile, don't sob on the machines, they will rust :)

Bill
Title: Re: Zee's Shop Beginnings
Post by: crueby on August 27, 2017, 09:48:36 PM
All plugged in and fuses okay, interlocks in.  Good.

Is it the type with a plug that is removable from the back of the machine, like a PC is? Those little buggers can be loose sometimes.

I assume you turned the switch to 'On'?   :facepalm2:
Not using metric electrons?   :ShakeHead:
Title: Re: Zee's Shop Beginnings
Post by: zeeprogrammer on August 27, 2017, 10:07:16 PM
Hi Bill. Yeah I'm hoping something simple.
I had noticed some things were loose here and there. There was also a sizable ding on the gear cover near the interlock but no damage inside. A bit of the supplied paint will take care of the ding. Not noticeable as it's in the rear.

I'm hoping something came loose in shipping. The tool case was fairly damaged so it looks like the box took a pretty good hit.
The boxes the stands were in had also some damage but nothing got to the stands themselves.

But I don't want to open the thing up until I hear from Matt.

Hi Chris. Cable is strain relief in with a screw cap. Only slightly loose and wouldn't make a difference.
Re: the 'I assume you turned the switch to 'On'....if you were here there'd be a  :slap:
And before you realize your second mistake  ;D it's a push switch.

Don't get me wrong...I, and I'm sure all of you, have had the  :facepalm: moment when you forgot the obvious.

I keep going over to it and trying it. My bum-itis may be turning into insanity (same result and all that).  ;D

Must go now. Have to squeegee my desk.
Title: Re: Zee's Shop Beginnings
Post by: Kim on August 28, 2017, 01:45:11 AM
Carl,
My lathe came without a power cord and you had to wire one up yourself.   There were different posts for 110 vs 220 in the electrical box.  Any chance they wired it for 220?  And you could move it to 110?  But it probably has a 110 plug, which makes that unlikely.  Just wanted to mention it.

I'm sure Matt will get you set right.

Kim
Title: Re: Zee's Shop Beginnings
Post by: 90LX_Notch on August 28, 2017, 02:00:00 AM
Sorry to hear about the lathe Carl.  Hopefully it can be corrected without much hassel.


Beautiful shop!  I can never post pictures of my collection of crap crammed in the dungeon(shop) now.  Thanks.


-Bob 
Title: Re: Zee's Shop Beginnings
Post by: zeeprogrammer on August 28, 2017, 03:41:20 AM
Thanks Kim and Bob.

Some good news.  :pinkelephant:
I got a reply from Matt tonight (wasn't expecting anything on a Sunday).
His suggestion was to check the cover guard and double check the cover interlock.
That got me thinking that the cover interlock might be sensitive.
That is, too far out...no good. Too far in...no good.
I had tried before but no go. This time...I tried to find baby bear's porridge.
If I get it just right... :whoohoo:

Tomorrow I'll try putting the cover back on. Some tweaking should get me there.

If I have too much trouble...I may bypass it. Why would I run the lathe without the cover?

Off to bed with great hope that my bum-itis will shortly turn into  :whoohoo:-itis.

Thanks for all your support and help.

And I never doubted Matt would come through. It's been a pleasure dealing with him.
Title: Re: Zee's Shop Beginnings
Post by: Jo on August 28, 2017, 07:46:23 AM
Some good news.  :pinkelephant:
I got a reply from Matt tonight (wasn't expecting anything on a Sunday).
His suggestion was to check the cover guard and double check the cover interlock.
That got me thinking that the cover interlock might be sensitive.
That is, too far out...no good. Too far in...no good.

When I mentioned chuck guards a page or two ago I forgot to mention one of the really annoying reasons why they are removed  ::)

Swarf tomorrow  :)

Jo
Title: Re: Zee's Shop Beginnings
Post by: Jasonb on August 28, 2017, 08:17:05 AM
Zee its not unknown for the gear cover to get a slight knock in transport and that can throw the interlock out of adjustment. Also don't forget there is one on the chuck guard too.
Title: Re: Zee's Shop Beginnings
Post by: b.lindsey on August 28, 2017, 11:51:22 PM
So what's the latest Zee? Inquiring minds need to know. Are you getting the tutu out yet?

Bill
Title: Re: Zee's Shop Beginnings
Post by: crueby on August 29, 2017, 12:03:38 AM
So what's the latest Zee? Inquiring minds need to know. Are you getting the tutu out yet?

Bill
Bill, what happens in Zee's shop, better darn well stay there! Ick!   :o
Title: Re: Zee's Shop Beginnings
Post by: b.lindsey on August 29, 2017, 12:09:15 AM
Chris, Zee's tutu is well known here on MEM. That cat is out of the bag for a while now 😃 :stir:

Bill
Title: Re: Zee's Shop Beginnings
Post by: zeeprogrammer on August 29, 2017, 01:08:14 AM
Up and running!

Just a matter of getting the interlock tab set right.
But I must admit...I have a nagging thought that I hadn't put the chuck guard down. Pretty sure I did. Nearly certain really. But it was too easy to fix.
Ah well. In any case...it's up and running.
And I'm real happy with the vendor (Matt). Quick responses, really nice, and very helpful.

Played with the knobs a bit. Time to re-read the manual. I was pretty confused with the settings and what the machine did in response.
But experience will teach me.

The tu-tu? Do you mean my standard workshop garb?

You know...I haven't seen it in a while. Now I wonder if some one (i.e. T) took the opportunity of the remodeling to 'get rid' of some things.
Catch you later...I haven't seen my favorite sock, t-shirt, and unmentionable in a while. Time for a confrontation.

Yes. Sock. Singular.
What can I say?
Title: Re: Zee's Shop Beginnings
Post by: Dave Otto on August 29, 2017, 01:25:12 AM
Up and running!

Just a matter of getting the interlock tab set right.
But I must admit...I have a nagging thought that I hadn't put the chuck guard down. Pretty sure I did. Nearly certain really. But it was too easy to fix.
Ah well. In any case...it's up and running.
And I'm real happy with the vendor (Matt). Quick responses, really nice, and very helpful.

Played with the knobs a bit. Time to re-read the manual. I was pretty confused with the settings and what the machine did in response.
But experience will teach me.



The tu-tu? Do you mean my standard workshop garb?

You know...I haven't seen it in a while. Now I wonder if some one (i.e. T) took the opportunity of the remodeling to 'get rid' of some things.
Catch you later...I haven't seen my favorite sock, t-shirt, and unmentionable in a while. Time for a confrontation.

Yes. Sock. Singular.
What can I say?

Good news Zee!  :ThumbsUp:


Dave
Title: Re: Zee's Shop Beginnings
Post by: Kim on August 29, 2017, 01:28:27 AM
Yes!  Very exciting!  :cartwheel:
Waiting to hear all the exciting news as you break in your new machine!  :popcorn:
Kim
Title: Re: Zee's Shop Beginnings
Post by: b.lindsey on August 29, 2017, 01:45:07 AM
Glad it is sorted now Zee. A sure cure for bum- itis!!

Bill
Title: Re: Zee's Shop Beginnings
Post by: Art K on August 29, 2017, 03:11:32 AM
Zee,
Great to see you got the lathe sorted out. My mill came w/o a plug so I had to go to home depot to get the plug and install it. I also had an interlock problem where while running the vibration would set off the belt cover interlock. They had an interlock kit that changed the switch and locking latch. Not been a problem since.
Art
Title: Re: Zee's Shop Beginnings
Post by: zeeprogrammer on August 29, 2017, 03:17:12 AM
Thanks all.

Very exciting. I'm hoping to clean, calibrate, and break in the machines soon.

But I just know it won't be soon.  >:(
Title: Re: Zee's Shop Beginnings
Post by: Jo on August 29, 2017, 07:04:57 AM
You know...I haven't seen it in a while. Now I wonder if some one (i.e. T) took the opportunity of the remodeling to 'get rid' of some things.
Catch you later...I haven't seen my favorite sock, t-shirt, and unmentionable in a while. Time for a confrontation.

Yes. Sock. Singular.
What can I say?

That reminds me of something that happened at work a few years ago... It was mid Winter and I was discussing something with my French colleagues when one of the other Brits walked in in his best cycling lycra  :facepalm2:. He said something about it being warm in the office and thrust his had down the front of his cycling shorts and pulled out :o a thick woolly rolled up sock. He said something about "Winter needing an extra odd sock" and my French colleague said something about "You are only trying to make it look bigger"  :headscratch:

I took my four seasons rule in the following day   :naughty:

Jo
Title: Re: Zee's Shop Beginnings
Post by: gerritv on September 01, 2017, 12:36:15 AM
Zee, your first lathe project might likely be wood work. You will need a plank to protect the ways from bouncing chucks etc.

Gerrit
Title: Re: Zee's Shop Beginnings
Post by: zeeprogrammer on September 01, 2017, 11:51:45 AM
Zee, your first lathe project might likely be wood work. You will need a plank to protect the ways from bouncing chucks etc.

Funny you mention that. It's been on my mind the last few days.

My plan was to clean, oil, and set up the machines this weekend but the family seems to have other plans.

I'm thinking of taking the advice of some and changing out the lathe oil after running in.
Calls for MobileGear 627 which apparently doesn't come in small quantities and is somewhat pricey.
Equivalents seem to have the same problem.

First though is to find out the quantity needed.

Both machines came configured in low speed.
But doesn't drilling with small bits generally need high speed?
I moved the belt on the mill to high speed. Odd thing is, the belt seems a bit looser than it was at low speed.
Title: Re: Zee's Shop Beginnings
Post by: gerritv on September 01, 2017, 01:28:46 PM
Mobilgear 627 is also known as MOBILGEAR 600 XP 100. I would contact a distributor to see if available in quarts. XP 150 is available in gallon jugs. It is essentially a synthetic ISO 100 gear oil with additives.

I think the key component of these gear lubricants (and even way oil) is the moly. Taking regular extreme pressure gear oil and adding MolySlip or Liqui-Moly would seem a relatively easy way to perhaps get similar results without buying enough for several life times.

I did buy a bottle of way oil from Grizzly and put some in a squeeze bottle. Only need a very small amount, and it sticks in place unlike regular oils so I expect a bottle to last a long time.
Title: Re: Zee's Shop Beginnings
Post by: Tennessee Whiskey on September 01, 2017, 03:14:25 PM
Zee, I think I remember seeing the oils in either McMaster or MSC in one gallon jugs. I know I bought some Mobil way and Mobile spindle oil in gallons from MSC.

Cletus
Title: Re: Zee's Shop Beginnings
Post by: mklotz on September 01, 2017, 03:48:36 PM
Zee, your first lathe project might likely be wood work. You will need a plank to protect the ways from bouncing chucks etc.

While a board to protect the ways is a good idea, you may find it advantageous to additionally build a U-shaped block that holds chucks at the correct height for mounting/demounting.  (I don't think I could get any of my eight inch screw-on chucks mounted without such a tool.)

Other woodworking projects include...

A small shallow box to go on top of the headstock.  Inevitably, you'll put tools, etc. there and the sides of the box will prevent same from being accidentally swept off to land on a hard floor or, worse, a spinning chuck.

A similar shallow box fitted with battens to sit outboard of the tailstock.  The battens on the underside keep it from being pushed off the ways.

Boxes like these serve another purpose.  When you need to access the space they occupy, you only have to pick up one item - the box - rather than futz around with a bunch of individual tools.
Title: Re: Zee's Shop Beginnings
Post by: zeeprogrammer on September 01, 2017, 05:05:46 PM
Thanks Eric.

Marv...yeah he said 'plank' but I was thinking of something like what you mentioned.

There's little room on top of the headstock and I don't want anything in the way of getting to the emergency stop (which, for whatever reason) is in back.

I intend to use that rolling hospital tray. At its highest setting it's just the right height. I can stick stuff on it and and roll it in or out of the way...or put boxes on top of it as well.
Title: Re: Zee's Shop Beginnings
Post by: Maryak on September 01, 2017, 10:23:50 PM
Hi Zee,

If you can't find MG627 in small quantities any straight SAE 30 oil will do the job.

Regards Bob
Title: Re: Zee's Shop Beginnings
Post by: zeeprogrammer on September 03, 2017, 11:11:12 PM
Both machines came configured in low speed.
But doesn't drilling with small bits generally need high speed?
I moved the belt on the mill to high speed. Odd thing is, the belt seems a bit looser than it was at low speed.

I wanted to revisit this question. Why wouldn't I reconfigure the machines to run at high speed?

Thanks
Title: Re: Zee's Shop Beginnings
Post by: b.lindsey on September 03, 2017, 11:20:51 PM
Zee, the mill is variable speed right? What are the rpm ranges for both the low and high speed belt positions?

Bill
Title: Re: Zee's Shop Beginnings
Post by: zeeprogrammer on September 04, 2017, 05:14:36 PM
Mill: 100 to 1250 and 200 to 2500.
Lathe: 50 to 1000 and 100 to 2000.

I know there are times a very slow speed is desirable but I don't know if the slowest at high is sufficient.

Thanks.

Title: Re: Zee's Shop Beginnings
Post by: b.lindsey on September 04, 2017, 07:32:21 PM
Zee, if it were me I would put both in the high position. That overlaps almost all of the low position speeds except for the very lowest ones and you can always switch to low speed for something like threading on the lathe when needed. That's just my two cents though.

Bill
Title: Re: Zee's Shop Beginnings
Post by: mklotz on September 04, 2017, 08:10:08 PM
Mill: 100 to 1250 and 200 to 2500.
Lathe: 50 to 1000 and 100 to 2000.

I know there are times a very slow speed is desirable but I don't know if the slowest at high is sufficient.

One way to get a feel for the speeds might be to look up the SFM for the materials you work most frequently and plug them into the equation that connects speed (RPM) and SFM to find the diameter you could/should machine at the recommended SFM.

DIAM = (12/Pi) * (SFM/RPM)

For example, with a material with recommended SFM = 100, your 100 to 2000 RPM yields a spread of...

D100 = (12/pi) * (100/100) = 3.8"

D2000 = (12/pi) /20 = 0.19"

Nothing cast in concrete, of course; we all ignore SFM and adjust speed "by ear" but it will give you a feel.
Title: Re: Zee's Shop Beginnings
Post by: zeeprogrammer on September 04, 2017, 08:53:26 PM
Thanks Bill. Pretty much what I was thinking.

Thanks Marv.
So at high speed for small diameter stuff (or drilling I would imagine) and low speed for larger flywheels.
This was helpful. Thanks.


Title: Re: Zee's Shop Beginnings
Post by: crueby on September 04, 2017, 08:59:01 PM
Thanks Bill. Pretty much what I was thinking.

Thanks Marv.
So at high speed for small diameter stuff (or drilling I would imagine) and low speed for larger flywheels.
This was helpful. Thanks.
and low speed for parting tool operations...
Title: Re: Zee's Shop Beginnings
Post by: mklotz on September 04, 2017, 11:03:24 PM
Thanks Marv.
So at high speed for small diameter stuff (or drilling I would imagine) and low speed for larger flywheels.

Yes, another equation that should be scratched on the inside of the lenses of your safety glasses.

SFM [surface feet per minute] = (DIAM [inches] *pi/12 [inches per foot]) * RPM [revolution per minute]

Values for SFM differ but I'll list the ones I used in my  SPEED program...


Code: [Select]
entries show SFM range

ALUMINUM AND ALLOYS 200  300
BRASS AND SOFT BRONZE 100 300
LOW CARBON STEEL 80 150
MEDIUM CARBON STEEL 60 100
HIGH CARBON STEEL 50 60
TOOL AND DIE STEEL 40 80
ALLOY STEEL 50 70
MALLEABLE IRON 80 90
SOFT CAST IRON 100 150
MEDIUM CAST IRON 70 100
HARD CAST IRON 40 60
COPPER 60 80
HIGH TENSILE BRONZE 70 90

Title: Re: Zee's Shop Beginnings
Post by: Kim on September 04, 2017, 11:04:29 PM
Hey Zee,
Just to give you another opinion...

I think I'd start with leaving them BOTH in the low speed setting.

In the 4 years I've had it, I've only used my lathe in anything higher than 800 RPM a few times.  I use the slower speeds for drilling (depending on size 100-400) and parting (100-200).  The highest speed I use with any regularity is 800 RPM for brass.  Most steel seems to work best for me at 300, to 500 RPM.

And I always use my lowest setting (70 RPM) for threading.

Maybe people will tell me I'm wrong, but that's what seems to work best and give me the best finish and least chatter.


On the mill, the lowest speed I have is about 250, and I wish I had something slower.  I notice it most when using a slitting saw.  I just have to be really careful or the saw will bog down and stop - it gets so full of chips.  I think when calculating the correct speed for a 4" slitting saw, in steel, it is more like 100 RPM, but I can't go there.  So I use 250 and just try to go really slowly.  It works, but if I had lower, I'd use it.

Just my experience.  And as I said, maybe I"m doing it wrong.

Whatever you set it at, I'm sure in a few months, you'll find the place you like to leave it most of the time - either high or low.  It would be interesting to know what you decided on.

Kim

 
Title: Re: Zee's Shop Beginnings
Post by: Jasonb on September 05, 2017, 07:37:29 AM
Zee like Kim I have only once put my similar 11x27 lathe  into high speed as I find having the very slowest 50rpm far more useful than the top end.

On other big factor is that to get down to 100rpm in the high range the motor will be running at its slowest setting which will mean it has less torque and also if running very slowly for  along time the motor fan is not turning fast so you will have minimal cooling when the lathe is likely to be under high load.

I would also fortget the published speed charts particularly when working on larger diameter work. These variable speed lathes do loose torque as the speed drops unlike a geared or fully belt driven machine so can be stalled with an average depth of cut on something like a flywheel. So the better option is to use the low range and let the motor run faster, use a fast machining speed but take a slightly shallower cut.

J
Title: Re: Zee's Shop Beginnings
Post by: zeeprogrammer on September 05, 2017, 10:35:20 PM
Thanks guys. Much appreciated.
Title: Re: Zee's Shop Beginnings
Post by: 10KPete on September 05, 2017, 11:00:10 PM
Just to reassure you, Zee, my SB 10K spends most of it's time on the big motor pulley and the center spindle pulley. Between that and back gear It covers 90% of my needs....

You aren't alone my friend!!!

Pete
Title: Re: Zee's Shop Beginnings
Post by: zeeprogrammer on October 02, 2017, 12:01:26 AM
Hi. Been a while. Going to be a while. But meanwhile...

I've been putting the shop (and house - which has a higher priority with respect to T) in order but having quite a bit of enjoyment setting up shop.

I'm figuring retirement is between Jan 2 and May 11.

Jan 2 means I get the year-end bonus.
May 11 means I turn 65 the next day. (For Americans it means eligible for Medicare.)
Any day after means I want to alleviate any fear T has about running out of money.

Unless I get pissed off. Then retirement is any day between now and pissed-off day.
Ah! Now the question is whether I call it retirement day or pissed-off day.  :lolb:

You may recall I got a LulzBot Mini 3D printer and have used it a lot to print out tool holders, a coaster for my coffee, some stuff for my robot project.
I'm pretty happy with it. Pretty much as advertised...out of the box. I haven't tried messing with the settings. Draw it, print it...fun.

In the meantime, I've been learning what I can about my new machines. Truthfully, I haven't done much with them. Getting interrupted every 30 minutes is not helpful.

One of the things that bugged me about the mill is the lack of a spindle stop. If you use the tool to hold the spindle, and the tool to loosen the drawbar...your cutter (or whatever) will drop to the table.

I came across NeilWNC's youtube where he printed a spindle stop. His is bigger...my printer doesn't go that big...so I made my own.

Yet to be tested. Just noting the possibilities when you add a 3d printer to your shop.

P.S. I have been reading the forum. What a fun group.

Title: Re: Zee's Shop Beginnings
Post by: b.lindsey on October 02, 2017, 12:55:24 AM
Hi Zee. You will likely beat me  to retirement...I am shooting for the end of May at this point. Always good to see you post, even if its just a come and go thing. Glad things are getting organized in the new shop too.

Bill
Title: Re: Zee's Shop Beginnings
Post by: wagnmkr on October 02, 2017, 01:30:39 AM
Hey Zee ... glad things are coming along. I agree with your thoughts on the 3d printer. It is handy to have. I just made a bunch of extra bobbins for the spinning wheel, and I am making some stuff for the aquariums as well.

Hope your retirement is soon and that you enjoy it.

Tom
Title: Re: Zee's Shop Beginnings
Post by: crueby on October 02, 2017, 01:34:52 AM
Good to hear that things are moving forward well, looking forward to seeing the projects roll out! First up, the Stanley?!
Title: Re: Zee's Shop Beginnings
Post by: Stuart on October 02, 2017, 07:33:36 AM
The only problem when you retire from w**k is that you do not have enough time in the day , you think how the ekk did I find time go to w**K

I stopped when I was 50 now at 70plus I have no regrets I was doing 12 hour day and nights inc Xmas day for a UK bank computer centre facilities eng

Get those machine into use before the guarantee runs out



Title: Re: Zee's Shop Beginnings
Post by: paul gough on October 02, 2017, 08:25:48 AM
Zee, Bill and anyone else, in 'retirement' time proceeds at the square of what it did when you are employed, also when you have forgotten work you eventually begin to notice the approach of total and permanent redundancy. Get on to the things that are meaningful, don't waste even one day of your new freedom. None of your life is refundable!!! Regards, Paul Gough.
Title: Re: Zee's Shop Beginnings
Post by: MHJ on October 02, 2017, 11:41:35 AM
Fully agree with the last 2 posts. One other thing: DO NOT let the locals know that you have a machine shop, lest you be pestered with:
"can yajust"
"will yajust"
"have yagot" etc, etc.

A sign on the workshop door may help, something on the lines of:
P**s Off

Which is the most polite I can think of at the moment. Enjoy yourself in there Z.
H.
Title: Re: Zee's Shop Beginnings
Post by: Jo on October 02, 2017, 12:16:37 PM
Actually I have quiet a trade in doing little jobs for people  ::)

Like last weekend I machined up for Olie a mount for his rifle and he dropped and chopped three trees for me  8)

Jo
Title: Re: Zee's Shop Beginnings
Post by: zeeprogrammer on October 02, 2017, 11:37:14 PM
Thanks all.

Actually I have quiet a trade in doing little jobs for people  ::)
Like last weekend I machined up for Olie a mount for his rifle and he dropped and chopped three trees for me  8)

The art of negotiation. I'll rub your back if you rub mine.
So I don't have a problem with people knowing I have shop. They just have to offer something in return.

Fits with my own philosophy. I can never feel obliged to someone. I must return the favor or whatever.

On another note...

Daughter was in Vegas at trade show. She's okay. Spent some time in a restroom hiding.
She was at a bar when news came in and then a jack-hammer went off outside that sent everyone stampeding.
She was in the middle of the strip and not near the site.

My sympathies to all those affected.
Title: Re: Zee's Shop Beginnings
Post by: b.lindsey on October 02, 2017, 11:56:04 PM
Such a tragic event, I hope you were able to hear from her quickly...a parents worst nightmare when you hear of something like that.

Bill
Title: Re: Zee's Shop Beginnings
Post by: Art K on October 03, 2017, 03:14:20 AM
Zee,
Glad to hear that your daughter is fine. Some of my in-laws live in Vegas, they are all fine though one was in a location that was in lock down.
Art
Title: Re: Zee's Shop Beginnings
Post by: zeeprogrammer on October 03, 2017, 10:19:00 PM
Thanks.

Waking up in the middle of the night to a phone call with my daughter saying good-bye is a nightmare.

She comes home today.

Many people grieving.
Title: Re: Zee's Shop Beginnings
Post by: zeeprogrammer on October 14, 2017, 06:36:06 PM
Can you believe it? I actually had time to play with the mill.
First thing is/was to take some measurements and see how in tram it is.

I used the Rollie Dad method. Many of you know this but I'd thought I'd show my take on it for anyone who doesn't.
And  ;D it's a way to get someone to reply and double-check me.

The approach is to 1st measure how true the head is to the column and make adjustments as needed.
Then to measure how true the column is to the table and make adjustments as needed.

Tools include a round straight rod, measuring device, and some means to attach the measuring device.
I used a 1/2" diameter roller out of a printer.
I could not use my dial test indicator as it doesn't provide sufficient range before the tip bottoms or tops out.
I used a dial indicator (.001) and did my best eye-balling I could.
The dial indicator has to be mounted from the column.
Mounting from the table gives erroneous results if the column is not true to the table.

The left diagram shows the ideal case (measuring in Y). The column is the large rectangle, the head the smaller rectangle, with the rod sticking down from it.
Just to the right shows the indicator when it's at the top or bottom position.
Take a measurement near the head. If there's any swing then move the 0 marker such that the needle swings the same distance either side.
Run the head up, and take another measurement, without changing the indicator setting.
In the ideal case, the indicator would not move or at least move the same amount either side of 0.
If the rod is truly round and straight, any movement would indicate the rod or collet is not perfectly central to the spindle.

The right diagram shows the effect if the rod (again, it must be straight) happens to be installed crookedly (or the collet is not true to the spindle).
Again, the top reading is made and the indicator adjusted such that any swing of the needle is the same to either side of 0.
The second reading will swing (because the rod is out of kilter) but in the ideal case would swing the same to either side of 0.

The 2nd attachment shows the head tilted and not true to the column. Repeating the measurements would show the 2nd reading (at the bottom of the rod) to swing a different distance to either side of 0. For example, if the needle swings left by 7 (that is, -7) but only right by 3 (that is, +3) then you add the two then divide by two to get the amount the head is out by. In this case -7+3 = -4, -4/2 = -2. The sign shows in what direction the head is tilted. (But which direction I haven't looked into yet.)

The 3rd attachment shows the effect against the table (assuming the table is true to the column).
The angle at the top is the same as the angle you see below the table (the arcs).
The purpose was to see how much the error in the Y head tilt would add to the tilt of the table to the column.

To find the angle at the top...
y = h*sin(angle)
sin(angle) = y / h (we will need this)
angle = arcsin(y/h) (we won't need this)
y, in my example is -2 (or just 2).
I made my measurements 4.75-ish apart.
The angle is so small (and the -ish in 4.75 so large) I can use this for h.
sin(angle) = 2/4.75

Assuming a 24" table, and therefore 12" from center to end, the distance at the far end from flat is again y = h * sin(angle).
h is 12" and the angle is as above.
y = 12 * sin(angle)
y = 12 * 2/4.75

Anyway...
Here's what I got on my machine...

In the Y direction, I got a swing of -.0025 to .0019 (ish) giving a tilt of (.0019 - .0025) / 2 = -.0003.
Additional measurements still came below .0006.
I don't think I'll touch that.

In the X direction, I got a swing of -.003 to .0015 (ish) giving a tilt of (.0015 - .003) / 2 = -.00075.
A bit worse but there's not a lot of travel in X. I don't think I'll touch that.

Then I inserted a short rod in the spindle, attached a long rod to it at an angle, and a dial test indicator to the end.
I lowered the indicator on one corner of the table until it just touched.
I set the fine feed control on the quill?spindle? to 0, lifted off, moved the indicator to the other corner on the same end.
I moved the indicator down (I already knew I was at the highest corner) until the indicator changed. The fine feed then told me how much lower that corner is.
Just under .001. That may be okay. Basically .00017 per inch of travel in X.
Then I swung the indicator to the other end of the table.
.026.
That's probably not good. That's better than .001 per inch along the table.

Going back to the discussion of the table and the tilt of .0003...
The contribution to the distance one end of the table changes from center is
y = 12 * (.0003 / 4.75) = .00076. Not a lot. Less than .000063 per inch.

The column is not true to the table in Y.

The only recourse is to shim the column.

But before I do that...I will repeat the measurements several times.

Sorry for the length of this post. I hope it helps someone.
Title: Re: Zee's Shop Beginnings
Post by: crueby on October 14, 2017, 07:47:40 PM
Getting the machines trued up, you'll be making Stanley Steamer parts in no time!!
Title: Re: Zee's Shop Beginnings
Post by: zeeprogrammer on October 14, 2017, 11:36:10 PM
Getting the machines trued up, you'll be making Stanley Steamer parts in no time!!

 :cussing:
I'm thinking you're already working on it. Right?

Before someone jumps in and reminds me about using the dial indicator to measure the rod (you all know who I'm talking about  ;D )...
I had changed the tip from a ball to a flat.
Title: Re: Zee's Shop Beginnings
Post by: crueby on October 15, 2017, 12:00:05 AM
Getting the machines trued up, you'll be making Stanley Steamer parts in no time!!

 :cussing:
I'm thinking you're already working on it. Right?

Yup - already working on the steam shovel. I figure you can drive me out to it in the Stanley.   :Lol:
The Stanley is still on my build list, I have liked them since I was a kid, thought a steam powered car was the neatest thing. Its just that the steam shovel has jumped it in line (rolled right over that little car!).
 :cheers:
Title: Re: Zee's Shop Beginnings
Post by: b.lindsey on October 15, 2017, 12:42:10 AM
Good to see you getting some shop time Zee. Should be making some swarf soon!!

Bill
Title: Re: Zee's Shop Beginnings
Post by: Mike R on October 15, 2017, 02:41:41 AM
Zee,


Be aware when it comes to the base/table that it is not necessarily planar and can have a twist in it.  Mine did and this threw me off for the longest time as I was using a cylindrical square on the table and measuring from the head to it, but as I moved the cylinder around the table/ table front to back or left to right I was effectively putting it at a new angle to the head and getting completely different results.


This is where "leveling" the machine comes in.  The machine doesn't need to be level so much as have the table be square to the column at the front of the travel and at the back.  Using a machinist level is one way to measure and adjust the base for any twist.  Adjustment can be as easy as tightening down one corner more than another to the stand, or shimming under the corners to remove twist.


Good luck.


Mike
Title: Re: Zee's Shop Beginnings
Post by: zeeprogrammer on October 15, 2017, 03:20:38 AM
@Chris...excuses excuses. You know you should be doing the Stanley. You said it yourself...been thinking about it since you were a kid.  ;D

@Bill..re: making swarf soon...in the scheme of life...soon could be tomorrow or next year. But yes...soon.

@Mike...Thanks! That's what I'm working on. Getting the table level to the column. I don't care if the whole thing is 45 degrees to earth. I just want the head, column, and table square to each other.

Talked to mom tonight. She wonders why I want to retire. I'm turning 65 next year mom. I want to enjoy my time with myself, my wife, and my family.
Not in that order.
Besides, the company that bought us out sucks.

She also wants me to change hobbies. She thinks that breathing in metal dust will do me in.
I'm thinking she just thinks it's dangerous.
Probably remembers her father (Opi) who discovered a bit of his finger on the shop floor at the end of the day and hadn't realized he'd cut it off earlier.

That's one of the dangers of smoking. You lose some feeling in your fingers. And toes. And mind.

I'd  :lolb: but it's really not a  :lolb: matter.

Always a balance. I can't see trading a good, fun life for an extra year or so....when those last years just amount to waiting.

Apologies if this is a downer. Just saying.
Title: Re: Zee's Shop Beginnings
Post by: Pete49 on October 15, 2017, 04:05:34 AM
retiring willbest move you'll make zee. No one to ask for time off to visit friends or family. I just hook up the teardrop and go ...takes how long to get there and back....who cares its only time.
Pete
Title: Re: Zee's Shop Beginnings
Post by: zeeprogrammer on January 21, 2018, 07:59:59 PM
It's been 3 months since I posted in this thread. Good grief.
And it's worse than that. I started this a year ago.
I got the mill in May and the lathe in August.

And I've yet to make a part.

Well there's been a lot going on, and I can produce many many excuses, but here's an update.

Experimenting with the lathe (and much help on another thread), I've learned much about the lathe and got some good finishes.
I think it's ready to make real parts.

The mill was the most difficult. It was out of tram and it took me several sessions (usually spaced weeks apart) to get it into, what I think is acceptable, tram.
Not perfect but I think workable.

Attached is a (poor) picture of a flycut. I'm not sure if you can tell...but what do you think?
There's machine marks entering and leaving which should be the evidence of being in tram (at least lengthwise along the table).

First few cuts looked really good. Then I took a shallower cut and got some squealing. Not sure what that's about but it shows on the part.
You can kind of tell on the left. Tried different speeds and feeds but didn't seem to make a difference.

I was using the type of cutter that has 3 inserts. Thoughts?

Also, I don't think I'd mentioned before...I got the table's power feed installed. Love it. I used that to feed the cutter.

I'm thinking the mill is ready for use.

Time to make something.
Title: Re: Zee's Shop Beginnings
Post by: crueby on January 21, 2018, 09:00:05 PM
Wahoo!!

 :whoohoo:

He's (almost all the way) back!

Have you decided what to start on? (stanley)   

With all new tooling, something straightforward would make sense (not that that has ever stopped us) to begin with, to work out all the kinks and learn the new controls.

 :cheers:

Title: Re: Zee's Shop Beginnings
Post by: zeeprogrammer on January 21, 2018, 09:43:58 PM
Have you decided what to start on? (stanley)   

Not sure. I've got a couple of kits that I'm thinking about.
But that popcorn engine keeps calling me.

One of the kits is the#7 Twin. Probably that.
Title: Re: Zee's Shop Beginnings
Post by: zeeprogrammer on January 26, 2018, 10:55:17 PM
It's too early to start a build thread but I've immediately run into a question...

The attached picture is the base for the PMR Twin #7 model.

You see the four posts sticking up through which the crank goes.

How to drill/ream for the crank?

Standing it up in the mill and using a long bit seems a no go. Not enough head room.
Doing it with a short drill from both ends doesn't sound like a good idea. I doubt the holes will be true. Much like tunneling from two directions.

Another option is to clamp the base to the lathe carriage and use a long bit in the chuck.
(A nice feature of the carriage is two T-slots and it happens my clamping kit from my small rotary table fits!)

Thoughts?

For the lathe I'd have to be pretty careful to be in-line with the chuck and at the right height.

P.S. I've already flycut the bottom. More on that when I start a build thread.

Thanks.
Title: Re: Zee's Shop Beginnings
Post by: crueby on January 26, 2018, 11:23:58 PM
I'm not seeing the picture...?
Title: Re: Zee's Shop Beginnings
Post by: zeeprogrammer on January 26, 2018, 11:43:43 PM
Sorry about that. It's attached now. Thanks.
Title: Re: Zee's Shop Beginnings
Post by: crueby on January 27, 2018, 12:03:44 AM
Could always mill off ghe posts in one go, close to the base, and make four bearing blocks that bolt on.
Title: Re: Zee's Shop Beginnings
Post by: b.lindsey on January 27, 2018, 12:08:18 AM
As for doing it in the mill, can you use a drill size for which you have a collet? Then ream behind the drilled holes. Just my 2 cents.
 
Bill
Title: Re: Zee's Shop Beginnings
Post by: zeeprogrammer on January 27, 2018, 12:40:55 AM
Could always mill off ghe posts in one go, close to the base, and make four bearing blocks that bolt on.

 :ShakeHead: That would destroy 'the look'.

As for doing it in the mill, can you use a drill size for which you have a collet? Then ream behind the drilled holes. Just my 2 cents.

Not sure. I do have a 3/16 collet for the first go. But would need to get a 15/64 to enlarge before reaming.
Then there's the reamer. Which looks like it could fit a 15/64 collet but I'm not sure.
The base would stand about 7". The drills and reamer would have to clear that and still get through all 4 posts. About 5" of travel.
Seems I would need 12" spindle to table. I have 11". Possible if I'm willing to move the table between operations.
I'll look into that more (mount the base in the mill) and see if my math is right.

Anyone have thoughts about using the lathe? Good or bad?

P.S. Bill...your 2 cents (as well as other forum members') are generally worth a fortune in my shop.
Title: Re: Zee's Shop Beginnings
Post by: b.lindsey on January 27, 2018, 12:50:17 AM
I assume the shaft size is 1/4".

Bill
Title: Re: Zee's Shop Beginnings
Post by: crueby on January 27, 2018, 12:55:56 AM
Couple of times i put the 3 jaw chuck on the mill spindle, so I could choke up on the drill bit and reamer, gained some soace. Depends if the thread is same on your mill and lathe?
Title: Re: Zee's Shop Beginnings
Post by: b.lindsey on January 27, 2018, 01:04:27 AM
I do it often too Chris for drilling and reaming only. Really helps on Sherline/Taig sized machines.

Bill
Title: Re: Zee's Shop Beginnings
Post by: zeeprogrammer on January 27, 2018, 01:08:45 AM
@Bill...Yes. 1/4" shaft.
@Chris...I guess that works with a Sherline. I don't see a way to put a 3 jaw chuck on the mill...and it's very large. No thread on the mill. R8.

I'll mock it up this weekend and see what kind of space I really have.

I sure am interested in people's thoughts about using the lathe to do this though. The drawings state "To ensure the Cylinder is square with the Base, chuck on the cylinder so it can be bored and the base end faced in the same setup".

That 'in the same setup' seems to imply a lathe. No? But I actually don't know what that statement means.
Title: Re: Zee's Shop Beginnings
Post by: b.lindsey on January 27, 2018, 01:17:26 AM
And two cylinders right? Zee the lathe is fine as long as you can get the height right. Fortunately the cylinder bores and crankshaft hole(s) should be at the same height.

Bill
Title: Re: Zee's Shop Beginnings
Post by: zeeprogrammer on January 27, 2018, 03:35:10 AM
And two cylinders right? Zee the lathe is fine as long as you can get the height right. Fortunately the cylinder bores and crankshaft hole(s) should be at the same height.

Right.

I'll give it a shot. What could go wrong?  ;D
Title: Re: Zee's Shop Beginnings
Post by: Jasonb on January 27, 2018, 07:37:23 AM
Zee I often use the lathe for doing the bearing holes on the large hit & miss engines and it works well.  Determine what your exact ctr height above the cross slide is and then pack up the base to suit. You may find it easier to fix the casting to a plate so you can clock the edge of the plate for the bearing holes and then rotate 90degrees, clock again and do the cylinder mounting faces so all is true and at the same height

You could also do it in the mill if you don't have a specific collet then make a simple bush to take the drill bit and to fit a larger collet with a grub screw to clamp the drill bit. Alternatively 6.0mm is a good pilot for a 1/4" reamer and collets available. Would up through a few lengths of drill starting with a standard then long series and then extra long series if needed.

(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v156/jasonballamy/Hit%20n%20Miss/1-3rd%20Galloway/IMAG1671_zps14eda184.jpg)

(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v156/jasonballamy/Hit%20n%20Miss/1-3rd%20Monitor/IMAG2343_zpsba06efb2.jpg)

(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v156/jasonballamy/Hit%20n%20Miss/1-3rd%20Monitor/IMAG2341_zps3d19a0c8.jpg)

(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v156/jasonballamy/Hit%20n%20Miss/Half%20Scale%20Gade/IMAG3103_zpstisxokz5.jpg)

(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v156/jasonballamy/Hit%20n%20Miss/Half%20Scale%20Gade/IMAG3582_zpsmwxiwraw.jpg)

Title: Re: Zee's Shop Beginnings
Post by: 10KPete on January 27, 2018, 08:04:50 AM
Jason, you've summed that up very nicely! You can do it Zee.   :ThumbsUp: :ThumbsUp:

Pete
Title: Re: Zee's Shop Beginnings
Post by: zeeprogrammer on January 27, 2018, 01:00:04 PM
Thanks!

When I talked about not having a collet to hold the drill bit or reamer..something was tickling the back of my mind.
Your post reminded me of a thread where we talked about making bushes to hold drill bits in a collet.

Even if that works for this job, I prefer trying the lathe. Holding the base vertically on its edge in the mill is a challenge in itself.

Very helpful.  :ThumbsUp:

Now to order up some longer drill bits and center drill.

Title: Re: Zee's Shop Beginnings
Post by: Jasonb on January 27, 2018, 01:14:39 PM
Zee if you are ordering a long series ctr drill than get a 1/4" one, that way you can drill and ream the first pair of bearing blocks and then use the 1/4" hole to help guide the ctr drill when you come to start the other pair.

The alternative is to use a 1/8" or 3/16" bodies ctr drill and loctite it into a suitable hole in a 1/4 dia bar that way you can just sue a standard length one.
Title: Re: Zee's Shop Beginnings
Post by: zeeprogrammer on January 27, 2018, 01:54:22 PM
Thanks Jason.

I hadn't thought about doing the blocks in pairs. Good idea.
I'll look for the long center drill and if too expensive or troublesome to get...I'm glad you suggested the alternative.