Model Engine Maker

Engines => From Plans => Topic started by: Dave Otto on March 05, 2016, 02:14:18 AM

Title: 1867 Otto and Langen Free Piston Engine
Post by: Dave Otto on March 05, 2016, 02:14:18 AM
Hi Everyone

My very good friend Max having just completed a Breman walking beam hot air engine (beautiful engine by the way) was looking for a new project. I had loaned him my Leanz plans many years ago and he had always thought about building the engine; except there was always a casting kit calling his name. Max has built many beautiful running engines over the years both IC and hot air. Complex engines like the Mery, Callahan Cam stopper, Olds gearless, etc. It doesnít matter which engine it is; it will run like a Swiss watch when he is finished with it. The Callahan was his first model BTW.

Max and I have been friends for many years and have traveled around SW Idaho together showing hit & miss engines, models, and hot air fans at the local engine shows. We also setup together for a number of years at the original GEARS show in Portland Oregon.

He finally decided to tackle the Otto and at 80 years; he is thinking what have I got myself into? He was thinking if I can successfully complete the column the rest of the engine should be pretty easy; at least smaller anyway. :lolb:

Max is not much on internet forums, and the ins and outs of posting pictures; but he did express the desire to share his work on this engine. I jumped at the chance to help out and do the easy work for him. He gets the hard job of keeping all the complex radii, facets, raised panels, etc. straight in his head.

So if there is interest this is going to be a team effort.

(http://i1236.photobucket.com/albums/ff451/idahoan_1960/Otto%202_zpsopt6rzvy.jpg) (http://s1236.photobucket.com/user/idahoan_1960/media/Otto%202_zpsopt6rzvy.jpg.html)
A piece of 12L14 four inches in diameter and approximately a foot long was ordered and mounted in the lathe to get the project rolling. Here it has been roughed out and in this photo the steady rest has been added, then the bore drilled and bored using a ĺĒ solid carbide boring bar supplied by a friend.


(http://i1236.photobucket.com/albums/ff451/idahoan_1960/Otto%204_zpsqzuyu1k1.jpg) (http://s1236.photobucket.com/user/idahoan_1960/media/Otto%204_zpsqzuyu1k1.jpg.html)
Next the column is further roughed down in the area where the flutes will be machined and the radius roughed in at the lower end.

(http://i1236.photobucket.com/albums/ff451/idahoan_1960/Otto%205_zpshcn9pzrg.jpg) (http://s1236.photobucket.com/user/idahoan_1960/media/Otto%205_zpshcn9pzrg.jpg.html)
The work piece was removed and flipped around and the chucking lug removed. Then using the same boring bar the counter bore for the cylinder head is machined.

(http://i1236.photobucket.com/albums/ff451/idahoan_1960/Otto%206_zpsavwahopk.jpg) (http://s1236.photobucket.com/user/idahoan_1960/media/Otto%206_zpsavwahopk.jpg.html)
Here is a shot of the counter bore after machining.

(http://i1236.photobucket.com/albums/ff451/idahoan_1960/Otto%207_zpsgonrqxbz.jpg) (http://s1236.photobucket.com/user/idahoan_1960/media/Otto%207_zpsgonrqxbz.jpg.html)
The next operation was to machine the taper of the column; this needs to be done by setting the tail stock over and running between centers. A custom catís head lathe dog was machined and fabricated to drive the work piece between centers.

(http://i1236.photobucket.com/albums/ff451/idahoan_1960/Otto%208_zpsdxke39f5.jpg) (http://s1236.photobucket.com/user/idahoan_1960/media/Otto%208_zpsdxke39f5.jpg.html)
Here is the final shot from today. The taper has been successfully machined; notice the safety wire holding the lathe dog to the chuck jaw. What else would you expect from a retired aircraft mechanic? Also notice the bull nose center on the tailstock end.
Max went into this with some reservation, but from what Iím seeing so far the column is going to be a success.

Thanks for checking in.
Max & Dave

Title: Re: 1867 Otto and Langen Free Piston Engine
Post by: Don1966 on March 05, 2016, 02:57:35 AM
Dave I will be following along on this build. This is a project I want to build eventually. I have to ask how did the boring bar work out and how many passes were need to get the bore concentric all the way? What type instrument did Max use to check the bore with and how accurate did it come out? One foot is a long haul to bore with a boring bar. By the way that's a nice start Max........ I..........like...........:ThumbsUp:

 8) Don
Title: Re: 1867 Otto and Langen Free Piston Engine
Post by: 10KPete on March 05, 2016, 04:29:45 AM
I like this approach Dave. It gives Max an 'outlet' for his efforts and gives us a great opportunity to learn and appreciate what Max
is doing.

I've learned a couple of things already!

Pete
Title: Re: 1867 Otto and Langen Free Piston Engine
Post by: fumopuc on March 05, 2016, 05:56:56 AM
Hi Dave, Max, very interesting to see that column taking shap out of this bar stock. I have printed the plans some weeks ago too and sometimes I am looking at it.
Title: Re: 1867 Otto and Langen Free Piston Engine
Post by: Jo on March 05, 2016, 07:44:31 AM
8)

We were playing the patterns for our one of these engines yesterday, but the main pattern is not a foot long  :hellno:

Jo
Title: Re: 1867 Otto and Langen Free Piston Engine
Post by: Jasonb on March 05, 2016, 07:49:44 AM
And Jo being Jo now wants it longer!

Thanks for posting Dave it will be good to follow along
Title: Re: 1867 Otto and Langen Free Piston Engine
Post by: zeeprogrammer on March 05, 2016, 12:30:49 PM
 :popcorn:

Excellent pics and comments. The work is awesome.
Title: Re: 1867 Otto and Langen Free Piston Engine
Post by: b.lindsey on March 05, 2016, 03:58:32 PM
Many thanks for starting this thread Dave. I am looking forward to following Max's work, thanks to your help.

Bill
Title: Re: 1867 Otto and Langen Free Piston Engine
Post by: Dave Otto on March 06, 2016, 04:18:40 PM
Thanks for all the great support everyone; this is going to be fun!


Don; the bore is actually a little over 8 inches; when the part was turned around and the chucking lug removed, counter bore added the lower end of the bore was exposed. Max said that he used snap gages to check the size; but found out when he was able to measure the lower end of the bore there was some taper. He blames the lathe for this.  :lolb:

Definitely pushing the limits of that boring bar; but it appears that he got away with it.

The bore will get honed or lapped and the taper will be taken care of then.


Max is a registered member here "112235" hopefully we can get him to chime in a little?


Dave
Title: Re: 1867 Otto and Langen Free Piston Engine
Post by: scc on March 06, 2016, 08:10:23 PM
Wonderful :ThumbsUp:             Terry
Title: Re: 1867 Otto and Langen Free Piston Engine
Post by: vcutajar on March 06, 2016, 08:11:31 PM
Pulled up a chair and will be eagerly following along.

Vince
Title: Re: 1867 Otto and Langen Free Piston Engine
Post by: Flyboy Jim on March 07, 2016, 07:29:10 PM
Dave,

Thanks for doing this thread. That's an impressive part!

For a newby like myself would you mind giving a little thumbnail sketch as to what this engine is all about? Maybe a link to more info.

Jim
Title: Re: 1867 Otto and Langen Free Piston Engine
Post by: fumopuc on March 07, 2016, 07:43:09 PM
Hi Jim, maybe this link will be helpfull.
http://www.modelenginemaker.com/index.php/topic,5692.0.html
Title: Re: 1867 Otto and Langen Free Piston Engine
Post by: Flyboy Jim on March 07, 2016, 08:15:35 PM
Hi Jim, maybe this link will be helpfull.
http://www.modelenginemaker.com/index.php/topic,5692.0.html

That's great thanks. I didn't know quite what I was looking for.

I did a YouTube search and was able to find some videos. What a fascinating engine!

Jim
Title: Re: 1867 Otto and Langen Free Piston Engine
Post by: Tennessee Whiskey on March 08, 2016, 12:00:27 AM
Well he definitely knows his way around the shed; does he like IPAs ? 8)

Cletus
Title: Re: 1867 Otto and Langen Free Piston Engine
Post by: Dave Otto on March 08, 2016, 01:18:28 AM
Terry, Vince, Jim & Eric; thanks for the support and nice comments.

Jim, by now you probably have figured out that the O&L is a very important part of the history of the internal combustion engine and represents some of Otto's early work. I believe this was the first successfully produced IC engine in any kind of numbers. I have had the pleasure along with some of the other list members, to stand next to one of the oldest running engines in the world; while it is running; what an amazing piece of history!

This engine is now apart and undergoing a badly needed restoration; here is the link but you most likely have to be a registered member to see the pictures.
http://www.smokstak.com/forum/showthread.php?t=154525

Eric; unfortunately Max is not a fan of bitter beer.  :Lol:

Thanks for checking in guys,
Dave
Title: Re: 1867 Otto and Langen Free Piston Engine
Post by: Dave Otto on March 08, 2016, 03:05:26 AM
Hi Everyone,

I got some progress pictures from Max this evening.

(http://i1236.photobucket.com/albums/ff451/idahoan_1960/Otto%209_zpsvkphfmyu.jpg) (http://s1236.photobucket.com/user/idahoan_1960/media/Otto%209_zpsvkphfmyu.jpg.html)
The column has been removed from the lathe and the head mounting holes are drilled and taped while there is plenty of material at the top end to clamp to. Apparently the machinist forgot to take a picture of the finished bolt pattern? :lolb:


(http://i1236.photobucket.com/albums/ff451/idahoan_1960/Otto%2010_zpslcbm1fr3.jpg) (http://s1236.photobucket.com/user/idahoan_1960/media/Otto%2010_zpslcbm1fr3.jpg.html)
Jo uses a white board; Max uses the way covers of his mill for a quick little Sharpie drawing to keep things in perspective.

(http://i1236.photobucket.com/albums/ff451/idahoan_1960/Otto%2011_zpsoz5z8d7o.jpg) (http://s1236.photobucket.com/user/idahoan_1960/media/Otto%2011_zpsoz5z8d7o.jpg.html)
Here the column is back in the lathe getting ready to machine the taper on the upper portion of the column.


(http://i1236.photobucket.com/albums/ff451/idahoan_1960/Otto%2012_zpssdakbcys.jpg) (http://s1236.photobucket.com/user/idahoan_1960/media/Otto%2012_zpssdakbcys.jpg.html)
Using a parting tool the upper decorative features are rouged out.

(http://i1236.photobucket.com/albums/ff451/idahoan_1960/Otto%2013_zpsvfgs6puh.jpg) (http://s1236.photobucket.com/user/idahoan_1960/media/Otto%2013_zpsvfgs6puh.jpg.html)
Then after much work with files and sand paper this beautiful profile appears; is that gorgeous or what?

Thanks for checking in.
Dave and Max

Title: Re: 1867 Otto and Langen Free Piston Engine
Post by: fumopuc on March 08, 2016, 04:59:37 AM
Impressive, not an easy part.
Title: Re: 1867 Otto and Langen Free Piston Engine
Post by: Don1966 on March 08, 2016, 01:57:56 PM
Dave I am still amazed that Max bored the column. Beautiful work and I can tell Max has an eye for attention to details. I don't know if I could bore the column like Max did but it's good to know it can be done. Just beautiful work all around Max.........I ........... Like........ :Love:


Don
Title: Re: 1867 Otto and Langen Free Piston Engine
Post by: Dave Otto on March 08, 2016, 03:07:58 PM
Thanks Achim & Don.

Don I'm curious what your approach might be to machine the bore in the column?

Dave
Title: Re: 1867 Otto and Langen Free Piston Engine
Post by: Jo on March 08, 2016, 03:14:48 PM
My plan is to mount it on the saddle and use a between centres boring bar of +700mm long  8)

Jo
Title: Re: 1867 Otto and Langen Free Piston Engine
Post by: Jasonb on March 08, 2016, 03:26:44 PM
My thoughts are to mount on cross slide bore out the bottom and then reverse to bore out the cylinder with a shorter between ctrs bar than Jo's as the centre and tailstock spindle will fit insde the previously bored hole :)
Title: Re: 1867 Otto and Langen Free Piston Engine
Post by: Alyn Foundry on March 08, 2016, 04:19:52 PM
My plan is to mount it on the saddle and use a between centres boring bar of +700mm long  8)

Jo

Hello Jo.

I'm smiling, a few years ago a good friend of mine built the ultimate scale model 12" to the foot Otto atmospheric gas engine. Imagine that boring bar!!

I can ask Dave for some pictures if anyone's interested, not wishing to derail this interesting thread.

Oh and don't forget that the Otto Langen engine followed on from the success of …tienne Lenoir's gas engine.

Kind regards, Graham.
Title: Re: 1867 Otto and Langen Free Piston Engine
Post by: Jo on March 08, 2016, 04:40:03 PM
Oh and don't forget that the Otto Langen engine followed on from the success of …tienne Lenoir's gas engine.

http://www.modelenginemaker.com/index.php/topic,2526.msg42492.html#msg42492  :mischief:

Jo
Title: Re: 1867 Otto and Langen Free Piston Engine
Post by: Tennessee Whiskey on March 08, 2016, 07:26:41 PM
OK,  is he a lager man? :lolb:. I have got to get my old butt out there to Idyho to see how y'all keep your machines so beautiful  :NotWorthy: :ThumbsUp: :cheers:. I started to reply on the "Most Beautiful Engine " thread with regards to the fact that  people that can produce this quality work are in all essence,  some what of a prodigy.  These guys are masters,  they are to metal,  what the masters are to canvas and music.. I have some really nice Martin guitars,  but,  Eric Clapton,  I'll never be  :old:

Cletus
Title: Re: 1867 Otto and Langen Free Piston Engine
Post by: Dave Otto on March 08, 2016, 07:56:28 PM
Thanks Eric,

You noticed that Max has also mastered swarfless machining?  :lolb:

Dave
Title: Re: 1867 Otto and Langen Free Piston Engine
Post by: Don1966 on March 08, 2016, 08:17:13 PM
Thanks Eric,

You noticed that Max has also mastered swarfless machining?  :lolb:

Dave
Hey Dave, does that mean we start calling Max, Dave Otto also......... :lolb:

Don  8)
Title: Re: 1867 Otto and Langen Free Piston Engine
Post by: b.lindsey on March 08, 2016, 08:37:44 PM
More great pictures Dave....tell Max to keep 'em coming :)

Bill
Title: Re: 1867 Otto and Langen Free Piston Engine
Post by: Flyboy Jim on March 08, 2016, 08:54:24 PM
Dave,

I was just thinking the other day that I've come to the realization that machining is as much art as it is science. Max's work certainly proves that.

I've been reading up on this engine. Quite a history! It always amazes me how early in time some of this work was done. Most of the school history books just hit the major breakthroughs and don't talk much about the work that was done much earlier than that.

I haven't run across an explanation (for dummies) of how this engine actually worked. I'm sure it's out there.

Jim



Title: Re: 1867 Otto and Langen Free Piston Engine
Post by: Tennessee Whiskey on March 08, 2016, 11:12:55 PM
Jim, my point exactly.  All of us may master the basics and a few helpful tricks along the way that will satisfy us and may even amaze a few others,  however,  these builders are the exception.  These guys and PayPal are what drive old boys like us on our journey  ;)

Cletus
Title: Re: 1867 Otto and Langen Free Piston Engine
Post by: b.lindsey on March 09, 2016, 12:19:44 AM
Cletus, AMEX is going to be disappointed with the PayPal comment... :lolb:

Bill
Title: Re: 1867 Otto and Langen Free Piston Engine
Post by: Tennessee Whiskey on March 09, 2016, 01:03:57 AM
They are directly linked  :lolb: :lolb:

Cletus
Title: Re: 1867 Otto and Langen Free Piston Engine
Post by: Dave Otto on March 09, 2016, 01:23:31 AM
Just got off the phone with Max,

The column/cylinder was dropped off at the automotive machine shop today to be honed on a Sunnen machine. New Y axis power feed scheduled to be delivered tomorrow PM; so it will most likely be next week before we have more pictures to look at.  :(

Jim, unless someone beats me to it I will try to put something together on the operation of this engine; it is really pretty amazing.

Dave
Title: Re: 1867 Otto and Langen Free Piston Engine
Post by: Tennessee Whiskey on March 09, 2016, 01:46:04 AM
Now I don't know about this subbing out work :stir: :thinking:. What,  does he think he's like 80 or something?  :lolb:. My power drawbar showed up today, so, I know how he feels about shop improvements.  He will love the Y powerfeed  :ThumbsUp:.

Cletus
Title: Re: 1867 Otto and Langen Free Piston Engine
Post by: Dave Otto on March 09, 2016, 02:37:23 AM
Maybe for another thread Eric; but I swore that I would never put a power draw bar on my mill. But, I have been running some parts with multiple operations on my CNC converted Knee mill, and all this tool changing has got my old tennis elbow injury,m flared up. :lolb:

Now I'm starting to think that maybe a PDB might no be such a bad idea. Did you do some research to find the best unit?

Dave
Title: Re: 1867 Otto and Langen Free Piston Engine
Post by: Flyboy Jim on March 09, 2016, 02:54:29 AM


Jim, unless someone beats me to it I will try to put something together on the operation of this engine; it is really pretty amazing.

Dave

Thanks Dave,

I'll keep researching as well. I know it's out there someplace.

Also, I'd love to know what Max is using for a lathe and a mill.

Jim

Title: Re: 1867 Otto and Langen Free Piston Engine
Post by: Jo on March 09, 2016, 07:09:09 AM
How it works:

The engine settles with the piston at the bottom of the cylinder, so if you turn the flywheel a little the rack will lift the piston drawing in some gas and air. You now have a charged "cannon" ready for the ignition.  The combustion of the gasses forces the piston with its rack up the cylinder, which in turn pushes the pinion round but to confuse matters the pinion is on a clutch and it free wheels in this direction  ;)

As the gasses in the cylinder cool it forms a partial vacuum and it is this vacuum and the weight of the piston and its rod (rack) dropping which gives the engine its power as it now turns the pinion. As the piston reaches the bottom of its motion a rocker arm is pushed down by a pin on the rack which locks the ratchet mechanism allowing the eccentrics to turn. One of these eccentrics lifts the piston again and the other which is offset by 90 degrees moves the slide valve to open the gas and air. And so the cycle repeats  :whoohoo:

Jo

P.S. The speed is regulated by the exhaust  :naughty:
Title: Re: 1867 Otto and Langen Free Piston Engine
Post by: Stilldrillin on March 09, 2016, 09:36:22 AM
Only just found this!

Is this what you're describing, Jo?


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p1Mn97po_Tc

David.
Title: Re: 1867 Otto and Langen Free Piston Engine
Post by: Bluechip on March 09, 2016, 10:43:16 AM
Either that or a Panther engine ...  :headscratch:

Dave
Title: Re: 1867 Otto and Langen Free Piston Engine
Post by: Jo on March 09, 2016, 10:49:22 AM
 ;)
Title: Re: 1867 Otto and Langen Free Piston Engine
Post by: 10KPete on March 09, 2016, 11:10:41 AM
How it works:

The engine settles with the piston at the bottom of the cylinder, so if you turn the flywheel a little the rack will lift the piston drawing in some gas and air. You now have a charged "cannon" ready for the ignition.  The combustion of the gasses forces the piston with its rack up the cylinder, which in turn pushes the pinion round but to confuse matters the pinion is on a clutch and it free wheels in this direction  ;)

As the gasses in the cylinder cool it forms a partial vacuum and it is this vacuum and the weight of the piston and its rod (rack) dropping which gives the engine its power as it now turns the pinion. As the piston reaches the bottom of its motion a rocker arm is pushed down by a pin on the rack which locks the ratchet mechanism allowing the eccentrics to turn. One of these eccentrics lifts the piston again and the other which is offset by 90 degrees moves the slide valve to open the gas and air. And so the cycle repeats  :whoohoo:

Jo

P.S. The speed is regulated by the exhaust  :naughty:

Thank you for the excellent and very clear explanation Jo!  That has to be the strangest engine cycle I've heard about. :insane:

Pete
Title: Re: 1867 Otto and Langen Free Piston Engine
Post by: Dave Otto on March 09, 2016, 01:37:18 PM
Thanks Jo,

I just didn't have time to sit down and type it up.

Dave
Title: Re: 1867 Otto and Langen Free Piston Engine
Post by: Flyboy Jim on March 09, 2016, 02:08:51 PM
Thank you Jo, that was a great explanation. I thought it had something to do with using gravity to develop the power. The vacuum part didn't occur to me. Also, I had no idea what all went on at the lower end.

i can see why this engine was quite limited in power. Which begs the question: Were any of these engines actually used to power anything or were they just a step on the way to engineering something that would?

Jim
Title: Re: 1867 Otto and Langen Free Piston Engine
Post by: Alyn Foundry on March 09, 2016, 02:37:06 PM
For your entertainment.

3 HP Otto Crossley patent ( 1870's ) driving a winch/crane.

Being demonstrated by Geoff Challinor the museum curator.

jaGpd2RJ3m4
Here is engine number 1 Otto Langen atmospheric engine.

09cqOUHbmBI
Title: Re: 1867 Otto and Langen Free Piston Engine
Post by: zeeprogrammer on March 09, 2016, 09:41:36 PM
What a cool thread!
Fascinating!

Great explanations and videos. Thanks!!  :ThumbsUp:
Title: Re: 1867 Otto and Langen Free Piston Engine
Post by: Dave Otto on March 16, 2016, 02:15:19 AM
Hi everyone,

The new Y axis power feed has been installed and is working great. The column/cylinder has been picked up from the automotive machine shop and some fixturing made.

(http://i1236.photobucket.com/albums/ff451/idahoan_1960/Otto%20Langen%20Free%20Piston%20Engine/Otto%2013a_zpsdodanksm.jpg) (http://s1236.photobucket.com/user/idahoan_1960/media/Otto%20Langen%20Free%20Piston%20Engine/Otto%2013a_zpsdodanksm.jpg.html)
Here is the cylinder sitting on my mill table; check out the finish in the bore! The taper has been removed and a very nice finish for the ringless piston to run in; has been created by a guy with many years experience running a hone. The reflection is from my 5C collet fixture sitting behind the cylinder.

(http://i1236.photobucket.com/albums/ff451/idahoan_1960/Otto%20Langen%20Free%20Piston%20Engine/Otto%2014_zpsbc5djx3b.jpg) (http://s1236.photobucket.com/user/idahoan_1960/media/Otto%20Langen%20Free%20Piston%20Engine/Otto%2014_zpsbc5djx3b.jpg.html)

(http://i1236.photobucket.com/albums/ff451/idahoan_1960/Otto%20Langen%20Free%20Piston%20Engine/Otto%2015_zpsfr7s3qcn.jpg) (http://s1236.photobucket.com/user/idahoan_1960/media/Otto%20Langen%20Free%20Piston%20Engine/Otto%2015_zpsfr7s3qcn.jpg.html)
Using his shop made tool Max made sure the mill was properly tramed.

(http://i1236.photobucket.com/albums/ff451/idahoan_1960/Otto%20Langen%20Free%20Piston%20Engine/Otto%2016_zpsfcoxocpd.jpg) (http://s1236.photobucket.com/user/idahoan_1960/media/Otto%20Langen%20Free%20Piston%20Engine/Otto%2016_zpsfcoxocpd.jpg.html)
And then the rotary table hoisted onto the mill table.

(http://i1236.photobucket.com/albums/ff451/idahoan_1960/Otto%20Langen%20Free%20Piston%20Engine/Otto%2017_zpso0yxap03.jpg) (http://s1236.photobucket.com/user/idahoan_1960/media/Otto%20Langen%20Free%20Piston%20Engine/Otto%2017_zpso0yxap03.jpg.html)
Here is the indexing setup; a small 3 jaw chuck mounted onto the rotary table which grips the counter bore in the end of the cylinder. A spud was turned for a nice fit in the top end of the cylinder with a center for the tail stock. A piece of all thread screwed into the spud and passed through the cylinder and the rotary table holds it all tight. An Idea pinched from Phil_L; thanks Phil
(http://i1236.photobucket.com/albums/ff451/idahoan_1960/Otto%20Langen%20Free%20Piston%20Engine/Otto%2018_zpsqksgldjg.jpg) (http://s1236.photobucket.com/user/idahoan_1960/media/Otto%20Langen%20Free%20Piston%20Engine/Otto%2018_zpsqksgldjg.jpg.html)
The first (easy) octagon is machined for a reality check; all seems good!

(http://i1236.photobucket.com/albums/ff451/idahoan_1960/Otto%20Langen%20Free%20Piston%20Engine/Otto%2019_zpsnoxeifs9.jpg) (http://s1236.photobucket.com/user/idahoan_1960/media/Otto%20Langen%20Free%20Piston%20Engine/Otto%2019_zpsnoxeifs9.jpg.html)
The next octagon is machined where eventually the raised panels will be added. Starting out with a 1Ē end mill and then finishing up with a fly cutter for a nice surface finish.

Jim you had asked about Maxís machinery; he has an import 12Ēx36Ē Tida lathe and a Birmingham clone mill which is also an import. Then the various assorted other tools; band saw, grinders, sanders, etc.

More to follow.

Thanks for checking in,
Dave and Max

Title: Re: 1867 Otto and Langen Free Piston Engine
Post by: 10KPete on March 16, 2016, 03:34:28 AM
 :o :o Wow, that bore is slicker than a ....... hey, that mill is sure clean!  :embarassed:

Super nice and gettin' better!  :cartwheel:

Pete
Title: Re: 1867 Otto and Langen Free Piston Engine
Post by: Flyboy Jim on March 16, 2016, 03:47:39 AM
Thanks for the machinery info Dave.

Max the column/cylinder looks great!

Jim

Title: Re: 1867 Otto and Langen Free Piston Engine
Post by: Tennessee Whiskey on March 16, 2016, 07:18:47 PM
WOWx10, you two are just something.  It does appear the old boy can run a Sunnen hone. The best I remember,  that's one machine,  that in a fair amount of time,  produces an excellent part or can ruin one in half that amount of time.  I knew the y feed wouldn't be a problem for you two,  and he's gonna love it.  Thanks for the shot of the "wild game hoist ". I have one that has never been used and now I think I have a great place to use it  8). Dave,  I hope to get the drawbar in situ this weekend and I'll report.  Max, keep an eye on Dave and y'all keep it up.

Cletus
Title: Re: 1867 Otto and Langen Free Piston Engine
Post by: crueby on March 16, 2016, 08:01:01 PM
Incredible work! Great thread - watching with jaw on floor...   :popcorn:

You know you are having fun when you need a crane to lift your tools.... That rotary table weighs more than my mill.  :o
Title: Re: 1867 Otto and Langen Free Piston Engine
Post by: Don1966 on March 16, 2016, 08:38:58 PM
Well while your at it just as well make the column for mine. While it is still fresh in your mind..... :lolb:
That's is looking great Max and I can see the bar is going to get raised a notch high on this forum with you guys.
Yup! Got one of those hoist to, got mine from Harbor Freight. Good for lifting around the shop. I had to increase the size of the start capacitor on mine because it couldn't start to pick up on some heavier loads. Works a treat now.
Keep the photos coming guy and by the way great photos....  ;D

 8)
Don
Title: Re: 1867 Otto and Langen Free Piston Engine
Post by: zeeprogrammer on March 17, 2016, 09:06:13 PM
Awesome!

Remind me what the size of this thing is.
Title: Re: 1867 Otto and Langen Free Piston Engine
Post by: Dave Otto on March 18, 2016, 12:22:09 AM
Thanks for all the nice comments guys, and the support; it is much appreciated.

Zee the column is right around 9 3/8" tall or 238.125mm for Jo.  :lolb: Yea I know her's going to be bigger but what can I say?  :shrug:

Interesting that you guys recognize the hoist; you must all shop at that same store with the funny smell; what did Marv call it?

Max quit procrastinating and decided to tackle the the raised panels today; I have proof! I will try to get the pictures posted this evening or tomorrow after work.

Thanks for checking in,
Dave

Title: Re: 1867 Otto and Langen Free Piston Engine
Post by: Dave Otto on March 18, 2016, 11:37:17 PM
Hi Guys

As promised here are some update shots of the O&L cylinder.

(http://i1236.photobucket.com/albums/ff451/idahoan_1960/Otto%2020_zpsylwx7hxo.jpg) (http://s1236.photobucket.com/user/idahoan_1960/media/Otto%2020_zpsylwx7hxo.jpg.html)

(http://i1236.photobucket.com/albums/ff451/idahoan_1960/Otto%2021_zpsnq9yt68z.jpg) (http://s1236.photobucket.com/user/idahoan_1960/media/Otto%2021_zpsnq9yt68z.jpg.html)
All the raised panels have been machined; Max said that it wasnít as much of a pain that he thought it would be.

(http://i1236.photobucket.com/albums/ff451/idahoan_1960/Otto%2022_zpsnsz5ta7e.jpg) (http://s1236.photobucket.com/user/idahoan_1960/media/Otto%2022_zpsnsz5ta7e.jpg.html)
An operation to finish out the day; was to machine the clearance for the slide valve rod in the top flange of the cylinder.

(http://i1236.photobucket.com/albums/ff451/idahoan_1960/Otto%2023_zpsxlknsohl.jpg) (http://s1236.photobucket.com/user/idahoan_1960/media/Otto%2023_zpsxlknsohl.jpg.html)
Today was spent cutting the octagons and details just above the raised panels. Max says that he is getting tired of cutting octagons and there still is more to go! The slide valve rod clearance was also machined in the area.


The next operation will most likely be, to machine the seat for the fixed valve plate. Then onto the fluting and then finish up the octagons on the lower end. The mill head will need to be rotated and he wants to finish as much work as possible before doing this.

Thanks for checking in,
Dave & Max

Title: Re: 1867 Otto and Langen Free Piston Engine
Post by: Tennessee Whiskey on March 18, 2016, 11:48:49 PM
The work is awesome, the pictures are fantastic, but, there was a little swarf in that next to last picture  :facepalm:  Beautiful fellows

Cletus
Title: Re: 1867 Otto and Langen Free Piston Engine
Post by: Don1966 on March 19, 2016, 12:18:18 AM
The work is awesome, the pictures are fantastic, but, there was a little swarf in that next to last picture  :facepalm:  Beautiful fellows

Cletus
Oh no! We can't have swarf in the photos my god what were you thinking...... :lolb: :lolb:
Max what an awesome display of work and like dog said pictures are fantastic....... :ThumbsUp:

Don
Title: Re: 1867 Otto and Langen Free Piston Engine
Post by: b.lindsey on March 19, 2016, 12:51:16 AM
Don't know what to say other than truly exceptional work!!!

Bill
Title: Re: 1867 Otto and Langen Free Piston Engine
Post by: fumopuc on March 19, 2016, 06:55:18 AM
 Hi Dave, Max, I am watching and get shown a fantastic job.
Title: Re: 1867 Otto and Langen Free Piston Engine
Post by: Dave Otto on March 25, 2016, 12:21:27 AM
Hi Guys

Eric, Don, Bill & Achim, thanks again for the nice comments and the great support; Max said that he will try to do a better job cleaning up between cuts.  :lolb:
Work has been continuing on the cylinder and good progress is being made.

(http://i1236.photobucket.com/albums/ff451/idahoan_1960/Otto%2024_zpsn4zk6naf.jpg) (http://s1236.photobucket.com/user/idahoan_1960/media/Otto%2024_zpsn4zk6naf.jpg.html)
The next task was to machine the cavity where the slide valve body will be mounted; this took several cups of coffee and lengthy discussion at Saturday breakfast for Max to be able to wrap his head around what was needed here. The Lenaz prints arenít always easy to understand; but as usual this part of the cylinder turned out great.

(http://i1236.photobucket.com/albums/ff451/idahoan_1960/DSCN0741_zps8s6zuamf.jpg) (http://s1236.photobucket.com/user/idahoan_1960/media/DSCN0741_zps8s6zuamf.jpg.html)
With all the work being completed with the head tramed; it was time to tilt it over and cut the angles.

(http://i1236.photobucket.com/albums/ff451/idahoan_1960/Otto%2025_zpsq8b5tkbt.jpg) (http://s1236.photobucket.com/user/idahoan_1960/media/Otto%2025_zpsq8b5tkbt.jpg.html)
After the angles were finished the head was tramed back in and the rotary table and its tailstock were shimmed to allow the flutes in the tapered column to be machined. Max said the print called for .04Ē deep but he stopped at .03Ē because the lands between them were starting to look pretty narrow.

(http://i1236.photobucket.com/albums/ff451/idahoan_1960/Otto%2026_zpspz5gu2mx.jpg) (http://s1236.photobucket.com/user/idahoan_1960/media/Otto%2026_zpspz5gu2mx.jpg.html)
Iím not sure whatís for dinner but here is a shot of the completed cylinder/column. Iím thinking that the slide valve body may be next we will have to wait and see.

Thanks for checking in and the continued support; I think Max is breathing a huge sigh of relief about now, having all this behind him.

Dave & Max

Title: Re: 1867 Otto and Langen Free Piston Engine
Post by: Don1966 on March 25, 2016, 12:40:07 AM
This is just some jaw dropping setups and work guys.  :o  That columkn is total awesome........I ............like.......... :Love:


 :popcorn:
don
Title: Re: 1867 Otto and Langen Free Piston Engine
Post by: zeeprogrammer on March 25, 2016, 01:07:13 AM
Awesome. Just really awesome.
Beautiful work.
Title: Re: 1867 Otto and Langen Free Piston Engine
Post by: Flyboy Jim on March 25, 2016, 02:27:41 AM

(http://i1236.photobucket.com/albums/ff451/idahoan_1960/Otto%2026_zpspz5gu2mx.jpg) (http://s1236.photobucket.com/user/idahoan_1960/media/Otto%2026_zpspz5gu2mx.jpg.html)
Iím not sure whatís for dinner but here is a shot of the completed cylinder/column. Iím thinking that the slide valve body may be next we will have to wait and see.

Thanks for checking in and the continued support; I think Max is breathing a huge sigh of relief about now, having all this behind him.

Dave & Max

Dave and Max,

That's a really impressive piece of work!  :ThumbsUp: I bet Max is relieved. Thanks for posting.

That's definitely got to be a candidate for: "You know your a machinist when:"........................."You spend 2 weeks making a new candle holder for the dining room table!"   ;)

Jim



Title: Re: 1867 Otto and Langen Free Piston Engine
Post by: fumopuc on March 25, 2016, 05:01:58 AM
Fantastic, thanks for showing the different set ups.
Title: Re: 1867 Otto and Langen Free Piston Engine
Post by: b.lindsey on March 25, 2016, 01:31:00 PM
Amazing stuff....the base and column are a work of art by themselves!!

Bill
Title: Re: 1867 Otto and Langen Free Piston Engine
Post by: Dave Otto on April 28, 2016, 01:12:18 AM
Hi Guys

Here are some more pictures from Maxís shop; he is continuing to make good progress on his Otto & Langen.

(http://i1236.photobucket.com/albums/ff451/idahoan_1960/Otto%2027_zpsdyme2oyf.jpg) (http://s1236.photobucket.com/user/idahoan_1960/media/Otto%2027_zpsdyme2oyf.jpg.html)
One of the 12L14 off cuts from the column was used to make the slide valve body and the cover.

(http://i1236.photobucket.com/albums/ff451/idahoan_1960/Otto%2028_zpsuygqx5sm.jpg) (http://s1236.photobucket.com/user/idahoan_1960/media/Otto%2028_zpsuygqx5sm.jpg.html)
The shaper was used to square up the valve parts. It was also used to machine the running surfaces of the valve parts as it leaves a much nicer finish than an end mill.

(http://i1236.photobucket.com/albums/ff451/idahoan_1960/Otto%2029_zpslymrtiih.jpg) (http://s1236.photobucket.com/user/idahoan_1960/media/Otto%2029_zpslymrtiih.jpg.html)
The slide valve body has been finished and mounted on the engine. Max was not too fired up about taking the torch to all his hard work and soldering the valve body in place. He decided to screw it to the column with the four 4-40 flat head screws that you see in the channel. The body will be sealed to the column on final assembly.

(http://i1236.photobucket.com/albums/ff451/idahoan_1960/Otto%2030_zpsqlpfockj.jpg) (http://s1236.photobucket.com/user/idahoan_1960/media/Otto%2030_zpsqlpfockj.jpg.html)
Here is the slide valve and cover; the slide valve is made from cast iron to help prevent galling. The part sticking out of the bottom of the slide valve is one of the ignition points. It is spring loaded into the slide valve.

(http://i1236.photobucket.com/albums/ff451/idahoan_1960/Otto%2032_zpsscdxiguy.jpg) (http://s1236.photobucket.com/user/idahoan_1960/media/Otto%2032_zpsscdxiguy.jpg.html)
Next are a couple shots of the completed assembly installed on the column.

(http://i1236.photobucket.com/albums/ff451/idahoan_1960/Otto%2031_zpsiwbegwzj.jpg) (http://s1236.photobucket.com/user/idahoan_1960/media/Otto%2031_zpsiwbegwzj.jpg.html)


(http://i1236.photobucket.com/albums/ff451/idahoan_1960/Otto%2033_zpstnsu3xqr.jpg) (http://s1236.photobucket.com/user/idahoan_1960/media/Otto%2033_zpstnsu3xqr.jpg.html)
The next part under construction is the domed cover for the exhaust valve; here it is being roughed out in the lathe.

(http://i1236.photobucket.com/albums/ff451/idahoan_1960/Otto%2034_zpse3nro56p.jpg) (http://s1236.photobucket.com/user/idahoan_1960/media/Otto%2034_zpse3nro56p.jpg.html)
The dome is generated using the incremental cut method. Here it is roughed out and just needs some file work and polishing.

Thanks for checking in,
Dave & Max

Title: Re: 1867 Otto and Langen Free Piston Engine
Post by: Flyboy Jim on April 28, 2016, 04:13:35 AM
Dave and Max,

I was thinking about your project the other day and was wondering how it was going. Thanks for the update.

Jim
Title: Re: 1867 Otto and Langen Free Piston Engine
Post by: Dave Otto on May 01, 2016, 01:00:34 AM
Thanks for following along and checking on us Jim.

I'm still kicking around going to the Steam up (first weekend) this summer. Looks like the GEARS show is not going to happen again this year; I think that it may be over for good.

Dave
Title: Re: 1867 Otto and Langen Free Piston Engine
Post by: 10KPete on May 01, 2016, 01:12:59 AM
Thanks for following along and checking on us Jim.

I'm still kicking around going to the Steam up (first weekend) this summer. Looks like the GEARS show is not going to happen again this year; I think that it may be over for good.

Dave

What? What the heck happened?  :rant:   :Mad:

Pete
Title: Re: 1867 Otto and Langen Free Piston Engine
Post by: Dave Otto on May 01, 2016, 01:24:41 AM
I don't know the details, I recently talked to someone who lives over there and he indicated to me that it wasn't going to happen. Too bad really; the original show in Portland which was held at the National Guard Armory near PDX was a perfect place. easy access, lots of room, lots of hotels close by. etc.  I'm not sure why the show moved from there but I heard that there was a new CO at the armory and he didn't want to deal withe the model engine show. There must be more to it because as far as I know we were pretty easy to deal with.

I guess we will have to wait and see what happens.

Dave
Title: Re: 1867 Otto and Langen Free Piston Engine
Post by: Don1966 on May 01, 2016, 02:45:53 AM
More awesome work and enjoying following your progress....... :praise2:''


Don
Title: Re: 1867 Otto and Langen Free Piston Engine
Post by: fumopuc on May 01, 2016, 07:31:34 AM
Hi Dave and Max I like this thread very much. A lot of new things to learn. Max has made a great progress.
Title: Re: 1867 Otto and Langen Free Piston Engine
Post by: Dave Otto on May 15, 2016, 04:54:17 PM
Don & Achim, thanks for the nice comments and your continued support.

Here are some more progress photos from the Otto & Langen.
(http://i1236.photobucket.com/albums/ff451/idahoan_1960/Otto%20Langen%20Free%20Piston%20Engine/Otto%2035_zpsgaodlbmu.jpg)
Continuing with work on the exhaust valve cover; it is flipped around in the lathe and a ball end mill is used to hollow out the inside cavity.


(http://i1236.photobucket.com/albums/ff451/idahoan_1960/Otto%20Langen%20Free%20Piston%20Engine/Otto%2036_zpspcnohko0.jpg)
Then moved over to the mill to square up the flange and drill the mounting holes.


(http://i1236.photobucket.com/albums/ff451/idahoan_1960/Otto%20Langen%20Free%20Piston%20Engine/Otto%2037_zpsscoibo6k.jpg)
In this picture the exhaust valve reed is sandwiched between the two pieces of stock to drill the mounting hole. The valve is made form .002Ē feeler gage stock.


(http://i1236.photobucket.com/albums/ff451/idahoan_1960/Otto%20Langen%20Free%20Piston%20Engine/Otto%2038_zpspcpn0kmo.jpg)
Next the base has been laid out and sawed roughly to shape.


(http://i1236.photobucket.com/albums/ff451/idahoan_1960/Otto%20Langen%20Free%20Piston%20Engine/Otto%2039_zps9t5q6oj0.jpg)
Using the rotary table the facets are machined and the decorative ball end mill detail is also added.


(http://i1236.photobucket.com/albums/ff451/idahoan_1960/Otto%20Langen%20Free%20Piston%20Engine/Otto%2040_zpsc3bqeyqh.jpg)
Back in the lathe the center bore is opened up to accept the cylinder/column.

(http://i1236.photobucket.com/albums/ff451/idahoan_1960/Otto%20Langen%20Free%20Piston%20Engine/Otto%2041_zpsng9l5jgn.jpg)
Here is a family shot of the progress to date.


(http://i1236.photobucket.com/albums/ff451/idahoan_1960/Otto%20Langen%20Free%20Piston%20Engine/Otto%2042_zpsut9xrwrr.jpg)
After some discussion and arm twisting it was decided to not make the exhaust throttle valve that is part of the original prints. It is not a particularly good looking valve and way too large for the rest of the engine. I had this little union cock and offered it to max and we both think it looks much better. It will eventually have a length of 1/8Ē brass tubing added to finish it off.

Thanks for checking in,
Dave & Max
Title: Re: 1867 Otto and Langen Free Piston Engine
Post by: Tennessee Whiskey on May 15, 2016, 05:19:33 PM
I would venture to say that there are few machined pieces that can be considered "fine art"; this is definitely one.  You two are awesome  :cheers:.

Cletus
Title: Re: 1867 Otto and Langen Free Piston Engine
Post by: crueby on May 15, 2016, 06:12:29 PM
Simply stunning!   :NotWorthy:
Title: Re: 1867 Otto and Langen Free Piston Engine
Post by: Chipmaster on May 15, 2016, 06:48:10 PM
Your build log is inspirational.

Andy
Title: Re: 1867 Otto and Langen Free Piston Engine
Post by: b.lindsey on May 15, 2016, 07:49:54 PM
Always nice to see a new update on this one...beautiful, inspirational, artistic...can't say enough!!!  That is a shame about the GEARS show. I hope maybe a venue can be found to keep the show going more permanently.

Bill
Title: Re: 1867 Otto and Langen Free Piston Engine
Post by: Roger B on May 15, 2016, 08:52:38 PM
Many old pieces of machinery can be considered art forms and this is certainly one of them  :praise2:  :praise2:
Title: Re: 1867 Otto and Langen Free Piston Engine
Post by: zeeprogrammer on May 16, 2016, 01:49:21 AM
Many old pieces of machinery can be considered art forms and this is certainly one of them  :praise2:  :praise2:

 :ThumbsUp: Indeed.
Title: Re: 1867 Otto and Langen Free Piston Engine
Post by: fumopuc on May 16, 2016, 07:05:19 AM
Always a great pleasure to see a new posting in this thread with new pictures of this masterpiece. Dave, Max thanks for showing it.
Title: Re: 1867 Otto and Langen Free Piston Engine
Post by: jwcnc1911 on May 20, 2016, 02:16:45 AM
Hey all, haven't been in in a while.  I've had a little time in my shop myself so I wanted to check in here.

Not disappointed at all!  This build is fantastic!
Title: Re: 1867 Otto and Langen Free Piston Engine
Post by: Don1966 on May 20, 2016, 02:25:26 AM
That is true art in metal Dave and Max.............I...........like......... :Love:


 :popcorn:
Don
Title: Re: 1867 Otto and Langen Free Piston Engine
Post by: Dave Otto on May 24, 2016, 02:34:04 AM
Thanks for all the very nice comments guys; we appreciate your support and that you are taking the time to follow along with the Otto & Langen project.

I got busy and neglected to acknowledge all your nice comments; we do appreciate them.

Max is continuing to make great progress on the engine; or is he?

(http://i1236.photobucket.com/albums/ff451/idahoan_1960/Otto%20Langen%20Free%20Piston%20Engine/Otto%2044_zpsufagohwx.jpg)
Here is the shop helper; she is most likely responsible for all the nice work that we have been seeing.
He just keeps her around because she works for peanuts. :lolb:


(http://i1236.photobucket.com/albums/ff451/idahoan_1960/Otto%20Langen%20Free%20Piston%20Engine/Otto%2043_zpsdjc2tpdq.jpg)
Here is a shot of the exhaust reed valve that was being drilled a few pictures back; it lives under the domed cover that contains the exhaust hand cock which meters the engine speed.


(http://i1236.photobucket.com/albums/ff451/idahoan_1960/Otto%20Langen%20Free%20Piston%20Engine/Otto%2045_zpslirddbtc.jpg)
Work has started on the entablature and here it has been milled to size, the holes drilled and now the final details are being added.


(http://i1236.photobucket.com/albums/ff451/idahoan_1960/Otto%20Langen%20Free%20Piston%20Engine/Otto%2046_zpszipfzd3m.jpg)
The entablature is pretty much done and sitting on the column.


(http://i1236.photobucket.com/albums/ff451/idahoan_1960/Otto%20Langen%20Free%20Piston%20Engine/Otto%2047_zpslegxfia2.jpg)
Now it is time to start working on all the parts that mount to the entablature


(http://i1236.photobucket.com/albums/ff451/idahoan_1960/Otto%20Langen%20Free%20Piston%20Engine/Otto%2048_zpsewbwkqbm.jpg)
To keep from having to machine the long slender guide rods they will be machined in two parts; the decorative base section which will be drilled and reamed to accept the guide section that will slip into the base. The rods can be made from drill rod or some other nice TG&P stock; they will only need the top turned and threaded. A good friend built one of these engines a number of years back and that is how he made his. It makes it nice because you can easily remove the upper guide section for transport or storage.


(http://i1236.photobucket.com/albums/ff451/idahoan_1960/Otto%20Langen%20Free%20Piston%20Engine/Otto%2049_zpsphfjf4qe.jpg)
The lower section of the guides have been completed and now hold the entablature in place on top of the column. A word of caution on the Lenaz prints; the prints say to drill and tap the top of the column 10-32 but the threaded portion on the guide is ľ-28. The clearance holes in the entablature are also called out as ľ".


Thanks for checking in,
Dave & Max
Title: Re: 1867 Otto and Langen Free Piston Engine
Post by: b.lindsey on May 24, 2016, 02:26:40 PM
Another fine update guys. I love the shop helper too, as long as she knows the difference between peanuts and small parts :) Beautiful work as always.

Bill
Title: Re: 1867 Otto and Langen Free Piston Engine
Post by: sshire on May 24, 2016, 07:58:19 PM
Nice update and just beautiful work. Next year at NAMES?
Title: Re: 1867 Otto and Langen Free Piston Engine
Post by: Don1966 on May 24, 2016, 08:49:36 PM
Lovely work guys and your setting the scale high for us on this one........ :praise2:


Don
Title: Re: 1867 Otto and Langen Free Piston Engine
Post by: zeeprogrammer on May 24, 2016, 11:13:23 PM
Hm. Shop helper likes your nuts too.

I enjoy seeing squirrels and rabbits. But T is a gardener and sees them as garden pests taking food from our mouths.
She won't kill though. Not any wildlife (bees, toads, voles, mice, etc.). She just sees it as a challenge to work with or around.

Her view on life could change if she ever met some of you.  :lolb:

Sorry about the banter Dave. Although we work with metal...it's good to see the soft stuff.
Title: Re: 1867 Otto and Langen Free Piston Engine
Post by: Dave Otto on June 23, 2016, 12:21:24 AM
Hi everyone,


Well I did it again; I got busy and neglected to acknowledge all your nice comments; we do appreciate them.

Bill, Stan, Don, & Zee thanks of checking in guys.

Max is continuing to make good steady progress on his engine; the guide rods were made form drill rod and added to the assembly. I was mistaken when I said that they were going to be a slip fit on the lower portion. Max threaded the parts and they screw together.

(http://i1236.photobucket.com/albums/ff451/idahoan_1960/Otto%20Langen%20Free%20Piston%20Engine/Otto%2050_zpsly6y0anj.jpg)
The beginning stages of the upper tie bar.

(http://i1236.photobucket.com/albums/ff451/idahoan_1960/Otto%20Langen%20Free%20Piston%20Engine/Otto%2051_zps2pgoh0e9.jpg)
The bar is profiled and the center bead has been turned.

(http://i1236.photobucket.com/albums/ff451/idahoan_1960/Otto%20Langen%20Free%20Piston%20Engine/Otto%2052_zpsuldybdu2.jpg)
After the lathe work was finished the ends are rounded and the nuts machined and added to the assembly.

(http://i1236.photobucket.com/albums/ff451/idahoan_1960/Otto%20Langen%20Free%20Piston%20Engine/Otto%2053_zpsbjltcxhx.jpg)

(http://i1236.photobucket.com/albums/ff451/idahoan_1960/Otto%20Langen%20Free%20Piston%20Engine/Otto%2054_zpswshupdhj.jpg)
Here are the bearing support blocks; no in process pictures but they are pretty straight forwards parts to make.

(http://i1236.photobucket.com/albums/ff451/idahoan_1960/Otto%20Langen%20Free%20Piston%20Engine/Otto%2055_zps9lqanxmv.jpg)
After the lower supports were completed the brass bearings were then machined. Max decided not to split the bearings as there was not much to be gained except a bunch of extra work.

They do look pretty nice sitting in their respective positions. Interesting thing to note is the two shafts are not on the same plane one is about .06Ē different from the other. Not sure why Mr. Lenaz designed it this way; maybe we will understand as more of the parts are machined and added

I donít have a picture but Iím pretty sure the studs and nuts for the bearing assemblies have been completed.

(http://i1236.photobucket.com/albums/ff451/idahoan_1960/Otto%20Langen%20Free%20Piston%20Engine/Otto%2056_zpsmjhbdske.jpg)
The eccentrics which are pressed onto a common bushing and also pined together have also been completed. Iím not sure what Max is working on right at the moment; I will probably find out at breakfast Saturday morning.

Thanks again for checking in and following along.

Dave & Max
Title: Re: 1867 Otto and Langen Free Piston Engine
Post by: b.lindsey on June 23, 2016, 12:33:23 AM
Good to see more progress Dave & Max. The new parts are as beautiful as those that have come before!! Just a masterpiece!!

Bill
Title: Re: 1867 Otto and Langen Free Piston Engine
Post by: yogi on June 23, 2016, 12:57:21 AM
Great work!!!  :ThumbsUp: :ThumbsUp: :ThumbsUp:
I'm always happy to see an update on the project. Very inspiring work!  :popcorn:
Title: Re: 1867 Otto and Langen Free Piston Engine
Post by: Don1966 on June 23, 2016, 12:59:40 AM
Just down right great machining guys and ......I.........like........... :Love:


 :cheers: Don
Title: Re: 1867 Otto and Langen Free Piston Engine
Post by: Flyboy Jim on June 23, 2016, 02:59:03 AM
Stunning............a master at work!  :praise2:

Jim
Title: Re: 1867 Otto and Langen Free Piston Engine
Post by: Steamer5 on June 23, 2016, 07:30:11 AM
Hi Dave,
 Stunning work! One day maybe........I can dream......

Cheers Kerrin
Title: Re: 1867 Otto and Langen Free Piston Engine
Post by: mnay on July 11, 2016, 07:31:20 PM
He is a true artist.
Beautiful work.
Title: Re: 1867 Otto and Langen Free Piston Engine
Post by: Dave Otto on July 26, 2016, 12:33:43 AM
Bill, Yogi, Don, Kerrin, & mnay
Thanks for all the nice comments and your continued support. I have been needing to get an update posted; it seems that Max is able to crank out parts faster that I can get them posted. :lolb:
He has been busy as you can see the progress photos.

(http://i1236.photobucket.com/albums/ff451/idahoan_1960/Otto%20Langen%20Free%20Piston%20Engine/Otto%2060_zpsnbmzroaf.jpg) (http://s1236.photobucket.com/user/idahoan_1960/media/Otto%20Langen%20Free%20Piston%20Engine/Otto%2060_zpsnbmzroaf.jpg.html)
The eccentric straps were next and they are each different. After the blanks were screwed together they were bored in the mill.

(http://i1236.photobucket.com/albums/ff451/idahoan_1960/Otto%20Langen%20Free%20Piston%20Engine/Otto%2061_zpsioo0qy2c.jpg) (http://s1236.photobucket.com/user/idahoan_1960/media/Otto%20Langen%20Free%20Piston%20Engine/Otto%2061_zpsioo0qy2c.jpg.html)
Then transferred to the lathe to cut the locating groove in the ID of the bore. The two mounting holes used to hold the part to the mandrill were located in areas that would later be removed. Once the strap was mounted to the mandrill it was put in the 4 jaw chuck and dialed in.

(http://i1236.photobucket.com/albums/ff451/idahoan_1960/Otto%20Langen%20Free%20Piston%20Engine/Otto%2062_zps1lasoltr.jpg) (http://s1236.photobucket.com/user/idahoan_1960/media/Otto%20Langen%20Free%20Piston%20Engine/Otto%2062_zps1lasoltr.jpg.html)
Mounted on a different mandrill the straps were then moved to the rotary table.

(http://i1236.photobucket.com/albums/ff451/idahoan_1960/Otto%20Langen%20Free%20Piston%20Engine/Otto%2063_zpsgxfep72r.jpg) (http://s1236.photobucket.com/user/idahoan_1960/media/Otto%20Langen%20Free%20Piston%20Engine/Otto%2063_zpsgxfep72r.jpg.html)
After much tedious cranking they're starting to look the part.

(http://i1236.photobucket.com/albums/ff451/idahoan_1960/Otto%20Langen%20Free%20Piston%20Engine/Otto%2064_zpssyre5z1c.jpg) (http://s1236.photobucket.com/user/idahoan_1960/media/Otto%20Langen%20Free%20Piston%20Engine/Otto%2064_zpssyre5z1c.jpg.html)
Here are the two finished straps.

(http://i1236.photobucket.com/albums/ff451/idahoan_1960/Otto%20Langen%20Free%20Piston%20Engine/Otto%2057_zpsg6sgdvav.jpg) (http://s1236.photobucket.com/user/idahoan_1960/media/Otto%20Langen%20Free%20Piston%20Engine/Otto%2057_zpsg6sgdvav.jpg.html)
The ratchet was machined on the end of a piece of round bar using the Spindex to mill the teeth; then parted off.
(http://i1236.photobucket.com/albums/ff451/idahoan_1960/Otto%20Langen%20Free%20Piston%20Engine/Otto%2058_zps47doszhu.jpg) (http://s1236.photobucket.com/user/idahoan_1960/media/Otto%20Langen%20Free%20Piston%20Engine/Otto%2058_zps47doszhu.jpg.html)
A pair of square headed set screws were made to secure the ratchet.

(http://i1236.photobucket.com/albums/ff451/idahoan_1960/Otto%20Langen%20Free%20Piston%20Engine/Otto%2059_zpsafyzuxoh.jpg) (http://s1236.photobucket.com/user/idahoan_1960/media/Otto%20Langen%20Free%20Piston%20Engine/Otto%2059_zpsafyzuxoh.jpg.html)
The pawl (a fussy little part) was also machined on the end of a piece of round stock then parted off at the proper thickness.

(http://i1236.photobucket.com/albums/ff451/idahoan_1960/Otto%20Langen%20Free%20Piston%20Engine/Otto%2065_zpsa5jhinbk.jpg) (http://s1236.photobucket.com/user/idahoan_1960/media/Otto%20Langen%20Free%20Piston%20Engine/Otto%2065_zpsa5jhinbk.jpg.html)
Here is a family shot of the eccentric assembly

(http://i1236.photobucket.com/albums/ff451/idahoan_1960/Otto%20Langen%20Free%20Piston%20Engine/Otto%2066_zpsaldpn3tp.jpg) (http://s1236.photobucket.com/user/idahoan_1960/media/Otto%20Langen%20Free%20Piston%20Engine/Otto%2066_zpsaldpn3tp.jpg.html)
The ratchet and pawl both have been case hardened.

(http://i1236.photobucket.com/albums/ff451/idahoan_1960/Otto%20Langen%20Free%20Piston%20Engine/Otto%2069_zpstqaf9cie.jpg) (http://s1236.photobucket.com/user/idahoan_1960/media/Otto%20Langen%20Free%20Piston%20Engine/Otto%2069_zpstqaf9cie.jpg.html)
The three spur gears were turned from cast iron stock and mounted on a mandrill to machine the teeth. The blanks were left oversize on the thickness to reduce flex and chatter while cutting the teeth. Then finished to print after the teeth were cut.

(http://i1236.photobucket.com/albums/ff451/idahoan_1960/Otto%20Langen%20Free%20Piston%20Engine/Otto%2070_zpscohsnyxr.jpg) (http://s1236.photobucket.com/user/idahoan_1960/media/Otto%20Langen%20Free%20Piston%20Engine/Otto%2070_zpscohsnyxr.jpg.html)
Here are the two shaft gears ready for the engine. I think they may get a keyway broached in them before assembly.

(http://i1236.photobucket.com/albums/ff451/idahoan_1960/Otto%20Langen%20Free%20Piston%20Engine/Otto%2067_zpszwoi49q7.jpg) (http://s1236.photobucket.com/user/idahoan_1960/media/Otto%20Langen%20Free%20Piston%20Engine/Otto%2067_zpszwoi49q7.jpg.html)
The clutch assembly has also been completed; Iím starting to wonder if my friend ever sleeps.  :lolb:

(http://i1236.photobucket.com/albums/ff451/idahoan_1960/Otto%20Langen%20Free%20Piston%20Engine/Otto%2068_zpses7vhzd3.jpg) (http://s1236.photobucket.com/user/idahoan_1960/media/Otto%20Langen%20Free%20Piston%20Engine/Otto%2068_zpses7vhzd3.jpg.html)
Here is a picture of the assembled clutch.

(http://i1236.photobucket.com/albums/ff451/idahoan_1960/Otto%20Langen%20Free%20Piston%20Engine/Otto%2071_zpsy3syu6ef.jpg) (http://s1236.photobucket.com/user/idahoan_1960/media/Otto%20Langen%20Free%20Piston%20Engine/Otto%2071_zpsy3syu6ef.jpg.html)
And just for good measure he decided to knock out the piston.

Well I think that brings us up to date. There is some rack material on order that will take some interesting modifications to turn it into the proper part.

Thanks again for following along and all you nice comments.

Max & Dave

Title: Re: 1867 Otto and Langen Free Piston Engine
Post by: crueby on July 26, 2016, 12:42:06 AM
More incredible detailed work. Wow.

 :ThumbsUp:

 :popcorn:
Title: Re: 1867 Otto and Langen Free Piston Engine
Post by: b.lindsey on July 26, 2016, 12:53:40 AM
Indeed it is as Chris said. Thanks so much for posting an update. I suspect there is more to come :)

Bill
Title: Re: 1867 Otto and Langen Free Piston Engine
Post by: Dave Otto on July 26, 2016, 01:00:21 AM
Thanks Chris & Bill

Bill, yes there will be more to come; I was able to get us up to date. Now Max has got to get busy and make more parts!  :lolb:

Dave
Title: Re: 1867 Otto and Langen Free Piston Engine
Post by: Don1966 on July 26, 2016, 01:11:59 AM
Max has set the scale high here and I am just envious of his craftsmanship........ :praise2:

Don
Title: Re: 1867 Otto and Langen Free Piston Engine
Post by: Flyboy Jim on July 26, 2016, 03:49:55 AM
Just amazing!  :praise2:

Jim
Title: Re: 1867 Otto and Langen Free Piston Engine
Post by: Kim on July 26, 2016, 06:11:12 AM
Max & Dave, beautiful pictures of beautiful work!
Thanks for taking the time to share.
Kim
Title: Re: 1867 Otto and Langen Free Piston Engine
Post by: Steamer5 on July 26, 2016, 06:15:26 AM
Hi Max & Dave,
 Still following, still enjoying & still amazed at the skills!

Cheers Kerrin
Title: Re: 1867 Otto and Langen Free Piston Engine
Post by: Jasonb on July 26, 2016, 07:43:15 AM
Thanks for the update Dave, its good to see what can be done with just the spin indexer without the need for fancy dividing heads etc.
Title: Re: 1867 Otto and Langen Free Piston Engine
Post by: fumopuc on July 26, 2016, 08:21:11 PM
Hi Dave and Max, great to see this up date. The quality of the parts is brillinant, also of the pictures. Really some nice details are shown.
Title: Re: 1867 Otto and Langen Free Piston Engine
Post by: Tennessee Whiskey on July 26, 2016, 10:59:52 PM
Max is producing some mighty fine parts there Dave. And, he does move at a good pace; reckon that squirrel is helping him :thinking: 

Cletus
Title: Re: 1867 Otto and Langen Free Piston Engine
Post by: Rivergypsy on July 27, 2016, 01:26:56 PM
I've only just caught this build thread, but wow, what beautiful craftsmanship - you two are really making me think I have to try harder  :ThumbsUp:
Title: Re: 1867 Otto and Langen Free Piston Engine
Post by: Rivergypsy on July 27, 2016, 01:27:43 PM
By the way, you are going to leave it in bare metal aren't you?!  :naughty:
Title: Re: 1867 Otto and Langen Free Piston Engine
Post by: Dave Otto on August 01, 2016, 01:14:55 AM
Thanks for all the nice comments guys, they are always appreciated.

Dave, good to have you checking in on us; this is all my friend Max's work. I'm just helping him with putting his build up on MEM; we do bat ideas around at Saturday breakfast and I help out with the occasional CAD exersiz e to clarify dimensions on some of the parts.

It will be pretty hard to paint all that beautiful machine work and it does look so nice with out paint; we will have to wait and see. The Otto & Langen engines also look pretty good painted in the original brown. I'm pretty sure that he hasn't made up his mind yet.

Thanks again guys for all your comments and continuing to follow along with us here.

Dave & Max
Title: Re: 1867 Otto and Langen Free Piston Engine
Post by: zeeprogrammer on August 01, 2016, 11:31:36 AM
Catching up here.
Like everyone said, gob-smacking work!
Title: Re: 1867 Otto and Langen Free Piston Engine
Post by: Dave Otto on September 11, 2016, 08:18:08 PM
Max continues to make great progress on the Otto & Langen
Attached are some photos to document the progress to-date.

(http://i1236.photobucket.com/albums/ff451/idahoan_1960/Otto%20Langen%20Free%20Piston%20Engine/Otto%2072_zpsuiwvt3gd.jpg) (http://s1236.photobucket.com/user/idahoan_1960/media/Otto%20Langen%20Free%20Piston%20Engine/Otto%2072_zpsuiwvt3gd.jpg.html)
The two shafts were next to be made; here the eccentric shaft is in the lathe being machined.

(http://i1236.photobucket.com/albums/ff451/idahoan_1960/Otto%20Langen%20Free%20Piston%20Engine/Otto%2073_zpscergayct.jpg) (http://s1236.photobucket.com/user/idahoan_1960/media/Otto%20Langen%20Free%20Piston%20Engine/Otto%2073_zpscergayct.jpg.html)
Test fitting the eccentric shaft; a couple small tweaks were required to position the slide valve rod in the center of the slot. Machined to the print it was ~.02Ē off center.

(http://i1236.photobucket.com/albums/ff451/idahoan_1960/Otto%20Langen%20Free%20Piston%20Engine/Otto%2074_zpstfjcl4yg.jpg) (http://s1236.photobucket.com/user/idahoan_1960/media/Otto%20Langen%20Free%20Piston%20Engine/Otto%2074_zpstfjcl4yg.jpg.html)
Next the flywheel shaft was machined and here itís being checked for proper fit. The gears mesh very well.

(http://i1236.photobucket.com/albums/ff451/idahoan_1960/Otto%20Langen%20Free%20Piston%20Engine/Otto%2075_zpsrvheucjt.jpg) (http://s1236.photobucket.com/user/idahoan_1960/media/Otto%20Langen%20Free%20Piston%20Engine/Otto%2075_zpsrvheucjt.jpg.html)
Next the rack assembly was made; pictured here standing beside the engine.

(http://i1236.photobucket.com/albums/ff451/idahoan_1960/Otto%20Langen%20Free%20Piston%20Engine/Otto%2077_zps7vipta5s.jpg) (http://s1236.photobucket.com/user/idahoan_1960/media/Otto%20Langen%20Free%20Piston%20Engine/Otto%2077_zps7vipta5s.jpg.html)
The rack was made form a section of stock rack material. After it was brought to proper thickness and width extra material was silver soldered to each end. This allowed the details on each end to be machined.

(http://i1236.photobucket.com/albums/ff451/idahoan_1960/Otto%20Langen%20Free%20Piston%20Engine/Otto%2079_zpsuxyjz0bc.jpg) (http://s1236.photobucket.com/user/idahoan_1960/media/Otto%20Langen%20Free%20Piston%20Engine/Otto%2079_zpsuxyjz0bc.jpg.html)
If you look close you can see the lap joint where the extra material was added. Max said that if he were to do it again that he probably try to machine it from one piece. He had never cut a rack and had some reservations on how successful he would have been.
The rack and clutch gear also mesh very well.

(http://i1236.photobucket.com/albums/ff451/idahoan_1960/Otto%20Langen%20Free%20Piston%20Engine/Otto%2076_zpsiunc62kg.jpg) (http://s1236.photobucket.com/user/idahoan_1960/media/Otto%20Langen%20Free%20Piston%20Engine/Otto%2076_zpsiunc62kg.jpg.html)
As you can see the upper rack guide has also been made and added to the growing assembly. Also in this picture you can see the small bracket that holds the two arms. One arm operates the pawl and the other one serves to lift the rack assembly to pull the next charge into the cylinder.

(http://i1236.photobucket.com/albums/ff451/idahoan_1960/Otto%20Langen%20Free%20Piston%20Engine/Otto%2078_zps4h8snyhz.jpg) (http://s1236.photobucket.com/user/idahoan_1960/media/Otto%20Langen%20Free%20Piston%20Engine/Otto%2078_zps4h8snyhz.jpg.html)
The arms are fussy little parts that require many operations and some bending to make them work.

(http://i1236.photobucket.com/albums/ff451/idahoan_1960/Otto%20Langen%20Free%20Piston%20Engine/Otto%2080_zpsnh5k19ad.jpg) (http://s1236.photobucket.com/user/idahoan_1960/media/Otto%20Langen%20Free%20Piston%20Engine/Otto%2080_zpsnh5k19ad.jpg.html)
Here the arms have been installed along with the flat spring for the pawl arm. The stud will hold a limiting bracket that will act as a stop to limit the upward travel of the pawl arm.

(http://i1236.photobucket.com/albums/ff451/idahoan_1960/Otto%20Langen%20Free%20Piston%20Engine/Otto%2081_zpsedkvioh7.jpg) (http://s1236.photobucket.com/user/idahoan_1960/media/Otto%20Langen%20Free%20Piston%20Engine/Otto%2081_zpsedkvioh7.jpg.html)

One last shot of the current assembly; the Phillips head screws will be replaced with proper hardware in the future.

Thanks for checking in,
Dave & Max
Title: Re: 1867 Otto and Langen Free Piston Engine
Post by: crueby on September 11, 2016, 08:58:45 PM
That is quite an interesting mechanism, and stunning work as always!!

 :popcorn:
Title: Re: 1867 Otto and Langen Free Piston Engine
Post by: Dave Otto on September 13, 2016, 01:38:28 AM
Thanks Chris,

Yes, I think Mr. Otto spent a few late nights sorting this one out.

Dave
Title: Re: 1867 Otto and Langen Free Piston Engine
Post by: Flyboy Jim on September 13, 2016, 03:09:11 AM
Not only stunning work by Max, but stunning photography by you Dave! Could you elaborate about what camera you're using?

Jim
Title: Re: 1867 Otto and Langen Free Piston Engine
Post by: RayW on September 13, 2016, 12:02:28 PM
Beautiful workmanship. An example to us all.

Ray
Title: Re: 1867 Otto and Langen Free Piston Engine
Post by: Rivergypsy on September 13, 2016, 01:14:37 PM
WOW, amazing workmanship! this build has impressed me that much I've just downloaded the plans for this engine  :naughty:
Title: Re: 1867 Otto and Langen Free Piston Engine
Post by: Don1966 on September 13, 2016, 07:14:59 PM
Max continues to set the scale high Dave. Stunning work going on here......... :praise2:

Don
Title: Re: 1867 Otto and Langen Free Piston Engine
Post by: fumopuc on September 13, 2016, 07:45:01 PM
Hi Dave, yes that is really amazing workmanship. My regards to Max and thanks for showing us the progress.
Title: Re: 1867 Otto and Langen Free Piston Engine
Post by: b.lindsey on September 14, 2016, 01:04:26 AM
Thanks for continuing to share Max's beautiful work with the forum Dave. Stunning work and pictures.

Bill
Title: Re: 1867 Otto and Langen Free Piston Engine
Post by: Dave Otto on September 15, 2016, 01:25:46 AM
Thanks for all the nice comments guys!

Jim; a lot of the pictures Max sends me, and sometimes I take my camera over to his shop and shoot a few. Some of the last pictures were ones that I took.
I'm using a Nikon Coolpix P530, it was my choice for my 35 year anniversary  gift from my employer. I have been very happy with it.

Dave & Max
Title: Re: 1867 Otto and Langen Free Piston Engine
Post by: Rivergypsy on December 06, 2016, 03:26:52 PM
Dave, Max, any updates on this one?  :naughty:
Title: Re: 1867 Otto and Langen Free Piston Engine
Post by: Tennessee Whiskey on December 06, 2016, 07:42:16 PM
Rivergypsy,  I was just thinking about Max yesterday.  So,  what's the word there old "Sweet Nuts Otto"  ?

Cletus
Title: Re: 1867 Otto and Langen Free Piston Engine
Post by: Dave Otto on December 06, 2016, 10:29:35 PM
Guilty as charged; I have more pictures to post and I'm slipping at my duties. I will try to get something up in the next day or so.

Thanks for checking on us.
Dave
Title: Re: 1867 Otto and Langen Free Piston Engine
Post by: Rivergypsy on December 09, 2016, 03:28:31 PM
PMSL!! I'm not exactly innocent of that myself, Dave  :facepalm:
Title: Re: 1867 Otto and Langen Free Piston Engine
Post by: Dave Otto on December 24, 2016, 12:39:09 AM
Hi Guys
Here is a quick update on the Otto & Langen

Max wasnít real fired up about hogging a flywheel from the solid so he started looking for a suitable casting. It turns out that an IHC Tom Thumb flywheel is pretty close to the right size also the number and size of the spokes is also a good match.
The flywheel casting did have a counter weight but that was machined and fettled away.

(http://i1236.photobucket.com/albums/ff451/idahoan_1960/Otto%20Langen%20Free%20Piston%20Engine/Otto%2082_zpsarqwtvsn.jpg) (http://s1236.photobucket.com/user/idahoan_1960/media/Otto%20Langen%20Free%20Piston%20Engine/Otto%2082_zpsarqwtvsn.jpg.html)
Here is the mostly finished flywheel.


(http://i1236.photobucket.com/albums/ff451/idahoan_1960/Otto%20Langen%20Free%20Piston%20Engine/Otto%2083_zpsnamqzzva.jpg) (http://s1236.photobucket.com/user/idahoan_1960/media/Otto%20Langen%20Free%20Piston%20Engine/Otto%2083_zpsnamqzzva.jpg.html)
(http://i1236.photobucket.com/albums/ff451/idahoan_1960/Otto%20Langen%20Free%20Piston%20Engine/Otto%2084_zpstziflnoh.jpg) (http://s1236.photobucket.com/user/idahoan_1960/media/Otto%20Langen%20Free%20Piston%20Engine/Otto%2084_zpstziflnoh.jpg.html)
Here are a couple shots of the flywheel mounted on the engine; I think it looks pretty nice!

Work has also started on the base; I will try to get some pictures posted in the next day or three.


Thanks for checking in.
Dave & Max

Title: Re: 1867 Otto and Langen Free Piston Engine
Post by: crueby on December 24, 2016, 12:48:13 AM
That flywheel is a good match, style fits right in with the rest of the engine. An incredible project!
Title: Re: 1867 Otto and Langen Free Piston Engine
Post by: Flyboy Jim on December 24, 2016, 03:12:48 AM
That's a really nice looking flywheel and great pictures. I really like the depth of field you get.

Jim
Title: Re: 1867 Otto and Langen Free Piston Engine
Post by: Rivergypsy on January 05, 2017, 03:35:08 PM
As usual, beautiful workmanship! Can't wait to see more :)
Title: Re: 1867 Otto and Langen Free Piston Engine
Post by: Dave Otto on May 28, 2017, 04:41:01 PM
Chris Jim & Dave thanks for the comments.
Wow where does the time go. I have had these pictures for a while now and just never got around to posting them.

(http://i1236.photobucket.com/albums/ff451/idahoan_1960/Otto%20Langen%20Free%20Piston%20Engine/Otto%2085_zpsjthnv9jf.jpg) (http://s1236.photobucket.com/user/idahoan_1960/media/Otto%20Langen%20Free%20Piston%20Engine/Otto%2085_zpsjthnv9jf.jpg.html)
A wood base was made from African Padauk hard wood. The fuel and exhaust piping has also been added.

(http://i1236.photobucket.com/albums/ff451/idahoan_1960/Otto%20Langen%20Free%20Piston%20Engine/Otto%2086_zpsoj1x2vey.jpg) (http://s1236.photobucket.com/user/idahoan_1960/media/Otto%20Langen%20Free%20Piston%20Engine/Otto%2086_zpsoj1x2vey.jpg.html)
The bottom of the base was milled out to accept the S&S ignition module, batteries and to make room for the head and spark plug.
At this time the engine is pretty much finished and running. I will try to get a video of it posted in the near future.

Thanks for checking in.
Dave & Max

Title: Re: 1867 Otto and Langen Free Piston Engine
Post by: vcutajar on May 28, 2017, 05:54:42 PM
That looks really nice Dave. Thanks for keeping us up-to-date with Max's build.  Looking forward to see it running.

Vince
Title: Re: 1867 Otto and Langen Free Piston Engine
Post by: fumopuc on May 28, 2017, 09:09:50 PM
Hi Dave, a very good solution to hide all the electronic stuff and wiring  in the wooden base.
Waiting for the video and thanks to Max for doing this nice engine.
Title: Re: 1867 Otto and Langen Free Piston Engine
Post by: 10KPete on May 28, 2017, 11:22:32 PM
I sure do appreciate the clean work Max is doing. Every detail is crisp, clean and "right". Finishes are perfect and the 'shine' is not excessive. His work has the unmistakable look of a master...

 :ThumbsUp: :ThumbsUp:

Pete
Title: Re: 1867 Otto and Langen Free Piston Engine
Post by: 90LX_Notch on May 29, 2017, 12:46:09 PM
I sure do appreciate the clean work Max is doing. Every detail is crisp, clean and "right". Finishes are perfect and the 'shine' is not excessive. His work has the unmistakable look of a master...

 :ThumbsUp: :ThumbsUp:

Pete


Pete perfectly describes Max's work.   Beautiful execution.

-Bob
Title: Re: 1867 Otto and Langen Free Piston Engine
Post by: ShopShoe on May 29, 2017, 01:47:44 PM
I can't say better but to echo what has been said above.  This is great in all ways and I really like the presentation.

Kudos and thank you for posting.

--ShopShoe
Title: Re: 1867 Otto and Langen Free Piston Engine
Post by: b.lindsey on May 29, 2017, 07:42:08 PM
What a beautiful engine. So looking forward to seeing it run. Max has done what most of us aspire to...every detail is just phenominal!!!

Bill
Title: Re: 1867 Otto and Langen Free Piston Engine
Post by: Dave Otto on May 31, 2017, 12:51:07 AM
Guys, thank you for all the wonderful comments; Max will appreciate them and I do too.


Dave
Title: Re: 1867 Otto and Langen Free Piston Engine
Post by: zeeprogrammer on May 31, 2017, 01:28:15 AM
I have had these pictures for a while now and just never got around to posting them.

You bum.  ;D

Beautiful.  :ThumbsUp: :ThumbsUp:
Title: Re: 1867 Otto and Langen Free Piston Engine
Post by: Dave Otto on May 31, 2017, 01:48:37 AM
Thank you Zee!


Dave
Title: Re: 1867 Otto and Langen Free Piston Engine
Post by: Rivergypsy on June 09, 2017, 12:25:49 PM
The usual superlatives just don't seem to do this level of craftsmanship justice!! I do want to build one of these myself at some point, and if I can even get close to what you've done here I'll be very happy indeed - well done  :ThumbsUp:
Title: Re: 1867 Otto and Langen Free Piston Engine
Post by: TobyTetzy on November 02, 2017, 02:21:41 PM
Hello.

Verry nice engine!

I want to know where to buy this Tom Thumb Flywheel?
So anyone have dimensions of it?

I want to use it for the 1/3 IHC Famous.
It need 200x20 mm Flywheels.

Regards Toby
Title: Re: 1867 Otto and Langen Free Piston Engine
Post by: Jasonb on November 02, 2017, 03:53:10 PM
Toby, can you not get something closer to home? Have you tried TS, RC Machine or Atelier?


http://www.ts-modelldampfmaschinen.de/schwungraeder/

https://www.rc-machines.com/de/modellbau/schwungraeder

http://www.ateliermb.ch/shops/gussteile/ch/contents/de/d10.html
Title: Re: 1867 Otto and Langen Free Piston Engine
Post by: TobyTetzy on November 03, 2017, 07:54:48 AM
Thank you, Jason,

I think I found one at rc-machines.

Toby
Title: Re: 1867 Otto and Langen Free Piston Engine
Post by: Dave Otto on November 03, 2017, 12:32:40 PM
I think that Max purchased his flywheel from Don Weinbrenner at Midwest Model Engineering (316-483-4611).
I'm not sure if Don is doing engine kits anymore.

Dave
Title: Re: 1867 Otto and Langen Free Piston Engine
Post by: Dave Otto on October 03, 2018, 01:08:58 AM
Hi Guys,

Andy, (Chipmaster) had send me a message asking if I had a video of Max's Otto & Langen  running? I did not, so today after work I stopped by Max's shop; he fired up the engine and I shot a quick video of it. After it runs a while it likes to gain speed, rather than fussing with the mixture you can see me slowing the engine down with my hand on the flywheel.

The ratchet and pawl are very tricky to get to work correctly, this is the second pair that he has made for it. When the engine is running slow it latches nicely but when it speeds up it has some difficulty dropping in, you can see and hear it chattering a bit before it catches a tooth. If someone comes up with a good working profile we would love to see it. Even Emmett said in his notes that it may take several tries to get one to work properly. 

Enjoy!
EbPzVx-ysas
Dave
Title: Re: 1867 Otto and Langen Free Piston Engine
Post by: 10KPete on October 03, 2018, 01:47:28 AM
That one really runs well. I'm glad you had a chance to make the vid. Having watched the build with great interest, and now having seen it run, I've really got the itch to build one but I don't think I, or my shop, am ready....

 :praise2:

Pete
Title: Re: 1867 Otto and Langen Free Piston Engine
Post by: crueby on October 03, 2018, 02:20:38 AM
Fantastic video! Thanks!
Title: Re: 1867 Otto and Langen Free Piston Engine
Post by: Flyboy Jim on October 03, 2018, 02:53:34 AM
Great ending to a great project!  :ThumbsUp:

Thanks for posting the video Dave.
Title: Re: 1867 Otto and Langen Free Piston Engine
Post by: Jasonb on October 03, 2018, 07:14:35 AM
Thanks for the video Dave, it runs far more like the original than the one to Julius' plans that was posted a couple of days ago which is way too fast.

Did you try adjusting the exhaust restrictor to slow it down as that is what is supposed to act as a governor buy restricting how quickly the piston drops?

Also what Gas is being used to run it? THink I may have answered that having now watched to the end.
Title: Re: 1867 Otto and Langen Free Piston Engine
Post by: Craig DeShong on October 03, 2018, 11:04:03 PM
Hi Dave

You have a beauty there.  It runs very well.

My otto langen has a simular problem with the ratchet and pawl not positively engaging when it speeds up too much.  Often I can regulate the speed by controlling the exhaust. 

It seems to be susceptible to temperarure/humidity.  Sometimes I need to reguakte the acyteline pressure to get it run slow enough so the ratchet/pawl wont skip
Title: Re: 1867 Otto and Langen Free Piston Engine
Post by: Dave Otto on October 03, 2018, 11:07:44 PM
Thanks Guys

Jason, yes I understand how it works, did you notice in the video that the valve is completely shut? When the engine is cold the valve needs to be opened or the engine will die before it cycles and hits again.
What you are seeing is the leakage by the piston when warm. With careful adjustment of the fuel it will run slower but occasionally dies if it misses a cycle. We left it running a little fast for the video so it wouldn't die. Maybe a tighter fitting piston would slow it down, maybe not.

The engine doesn't have  a  way to  regulate the combustion air, just a hole in the side of the valve chest. A friend who built one of these added second tube and made a special valve so he could meter both the fuel and air. He used to bring his engine to the GEARS show and it always ran very well; although it did die occasionally (don't they all). Sadly he passed a few years ago so we can't ask him any questions.

Max is very pleased with how the engine runs so it is unlikely that he is going to start remaking parts for maybe just a few rpm slower operation.

Thanks for the ideas Craig.

Dave
Title: Re: 1867 Otto and Langen Free Piston Engine
Post by: Dave Otto on October 03, 2018, 11:12:09 PM
I have attached a picture that I took of the fuel and air valve on Gordon's engine.

Dave
Title: Re: 1867 Otto and Langen Free Piston Engine
Post by: Jasonb on October 04, 2018, 07:12:01 AM
Thanks Dave, I did see the valve handle in what is usually the closed position and wondered about that. The full size did have 3 piston rings but then again it also had a lot more weight to help the piston back down, may be worth trying  a ring on the model but you would have to find a balance between a better seal and minimal additional friction.

Wayne Grennings 1:1 replica piston
Title: Re: 1867 Otto and Langen Free Piston Engine
Post by: Craig DeShong on October 05, 2018, 01:51:47 AM
An additional note I'll add.  My engine has a steel piston, pretty heavy because it's nearly solid.  It has two rings.

After the engine runs a few hours ( I take it to shows and I'll start it and it will run nearly all day), it seems to acquire a carbon build-up near the bottom of the cylinder.  The piston will settle on the top of this ring and will not sink to the bottom of the cylinder so the cycle can repeat.

If I open the exhaust, letting the piston settle faster, it will sink through this build-up, but then it runs too fast with the result that the pawl/ratchet starts to stutter.

Time to dis assemble and clean.

Title: Re: 1867 Otto and Langen Free Piston Engine
Post by: Bjorn_B on January 05, 2019, 06:40:36 PM
This thread made me interested and I just had to see if I could at least to some degree replicate what Max has done. This is the result, as others I have some issues with the pawl mechanism, the plans are not very clear on the details of this. it runs on acetylene generated with calcium carbide/water into a bag accumulator (no pressure at all). Took me a year to complete..
Xf4kFDSj-ik
Title: Re: 1867 Otto and Langen Free Piston Engine
Post by: Dave Otto on January 05, 2019, 07:18:43 PM
Congratulations Bjorn, you have done a beautiful job on your Otto!

Its interesting that your engine has the same little issue with the pawl dragging on the ratchet wheel. Max has tried many different things to keep this from happening with out much luck.
What works the best is to keep the speed down, when the engine speeds up the dragging gets worse. If the engine is running slow it doesn't drag at all; but as the engine warms up it is hard to keep the speed down, most likely due to leakage by the piston.
If you come up with a solution please let us know.

Nice work!

Dave
Title: Re: 1867 Otto and Langen Free Piston Engine
Post by: fumopuc on January 05, 2019, 08:19:33 PM
Hi Bjorn, fantastic, a nice runner, congratulations.
Title: Re: 1867 Otto and Langen Free Piston Engine
Post by: Craig DeShong on January 06, 2019, 12:10:25 AM
Nice job with your Otto Langen.  It runs really well.

When I first got mine running, the ratchet and pawl also drug.  After a lot of fooling around Iíve pretty much eliminated this.  Unless the model is running faster that I like to run it, the mechanism usually doesnít drag.  Iíve attached a video of the mechanism I built onto the ďreleaseĒ lever.  If you observe the video closely youíll see that the spring loaded mechanism on the slide compresses up against the stop before the ratchet/pawl releases.  Once the release takes place, the spring on the slide mechanism unloads, rocking the pawl free from the ratchet.  This little bit of extra rotation of the pawl helps it clear the ratchet.

9VIfbW72wxI