Model Engine Maker

Supporting => Vehicles & Models => Topic started by: Brian Rupnow on February 10, 2015, 12:12:11 AM

Title: Buzz Saw
Post by: Brian Rupnow on February 10, 2015, 12:12:11 AM
In days of old, when knights were bold--and chainsaws hadn't been invented----People still had to saw logs up into 16" lengths for "stove-wood" to burn in the kitchen stove, or the box-stove for heating. Although this could be done with a cross-cut saw (I sweat even thinking about it), to get enough wood cut up to last all winter, most people used a tractor driven "buzz saw". This was generally a 36" or so diameter circular saw, fitted to one end of a shaft which had a flat faced pulley on the other end. The saw was driven by a flat belt from the tractors power take off. The saw and bearing supports stayed stationary, but a "swing cradle" attached to the same supporting frame had a place to lay a six foot length of log on, and was pivoted near the bottom so the cradle and log could be  swung into the saw blade to cut off a 16" length of "firewood", then the log was advanced by hand and swung in again to cut off another length. I know from experience that you could cut a prodigious amount of wood in a day, and if you didn't keep damned good awarenes of where your hands were at all times, it would cut a hand off just as quickly as a piece of log. Since I have already designed and built a sawmill and a wood splitter (and even though they were separated in time by about a century) I am thinking of building a "buzz saw" to add to my collection of engine driven models. I just did a bit of internet searching, and there are commercially available circular saw blades 3 3/8" diameter with a 15mm center hole, which would just be about right for sawing up 1" diameter broom trees into 1 1/2" lengths---for the wood splitter, of course. I don't want to build anything for a while now, but you do have to admit, it would fit right in with my other "forestry" themed models.---Brian
(http://i307.photobucket.com/albums/nn294/BrianRupnow/BrianRupnow022/i3417_zps98a1b92a.jpg) (http://s307.photobucket.com/user/BrianRupnow/media/BrianRupnow022/i3417_zps98a1b92a.jpg.html)
Title: Re: Buzz Saw
Post by: ths on February 10, 2015, 01:54:46 AM
The broom tree won't stand a chance now. Hugh.
Title: Re: Buzz Saw
Post by: Art K on February 10, 2015, 02:26:18 AM
Brian,
I'm with you on this one. Back on the old days, when I was a teenager dad had a saw rig on the back of the Ferguson T20 tractor. I remember cutting lots of wood with that thing. Unlike your fancy log splitter my dad had two log splitters, me and my brother and a splitting mall. Wood splits better in the winter!  He had an electric clock set up so he knew if the boiler ran, 15 minutes in five years. I couldn't do that now. If you want I can get pictures of dad's saw rig.
Art
Title: Re: Buzz Saw
Post by: philjoe5 on February 10, 2015, 03:42:18 AM
As a young and foolish lad I often thought about taking my McCoy 0.35 model airplane engine and running a buzz saw with it.  Thankfully I didn't have the means,  opportunity or encouragement to do it.  Otherwise, I believe I wouldn't have the digits necessary to post this message :ShakeHead:

Cheers,
Phil
Title: Re: Buzz Saw
Post by: Jasonb on February 10, 2015, 07:26:25 AM
Didn't the cross cut rigs run by hit & miss engines come before the tractor driven ones. I had thought of doing one for my galloway bit it would have come out about 42" long, should be more managable in your scales. Best also add a drag saw to your list of implenents.

J
Title: Re: Buzz Saw
Post by: Ian S C on February 10, 2015, 11:58:33 AM
Or driven from a pulley on the jacked up back wheel of a model T Ford.  Next you'll have to build a tractor to drive the saw ::)
Ian S C
Title: Re: Buzz Saw
Post by: Brian Rupnow on February 10, 2015, 01:08:54 PM
Ian---A perfect lead in t tell my "Leonard" story again---
Leanard story
I grew up in the kinder, gentler, far more poverty stricken world of the 1950's. I have a firm belief that it wasn't necessity that was the mother of invention---poverty was. The lack of money created a world of tinkerers and inventors, simply because there was no money to buy the proper tool or machine. An older friend of mine, named Leonard had built a portable buzz saw for cutting firewood. This was basically a 48" diameter circular saw mounted on the chassis of a model A Ford, circa 1930 or 1931. The lengths of wood were lifted onto a tilting carriage, and the carriage was tilted into the saw to cut up lengths of firewood. The saw was driven by a flat belt and pulley arrangement that came from the rear of the old Fords transmission. Now, Leonard had a problem----The old 4 cylinder Ford engine had babbit bearings, so it did not take kindly to prolonged high speed revving. However, if someone didn't open the throttle and give it some gas when the log engaged the saw, the engine would stall. Leonard was a veteran tinkerer, and somehow come into the possession of a set of flyball governors off an old steam engine. He mounted them with a belt drive from the Ford engine, and hooked them up to the carburetor with a system of levers and pulleys. The theory was quite simple---under no load conditions the old Ford would set there idling, but as soon as the log engaged the buzz saw, the rpm's would drop off, and the flyball governors would open the throttle automatically. This was a perfectly good working theory!!! The problem was that Leonard somehow got one of his lever arrangements bass ackwards. When the last bolt was tightened, and the last brace welded in place, Leonard went to test his creation. He started the Ford---that part worked perfect. As soon as it started however, the flyballs began to fly outward from centrifugal force, and the farther out they flew, the more the lever mechanism opened the throttle. The engine went from zero to a zillion rpm's in the blink of an eye. Leonard leaped from the drivers seat and raced around the car to pull off the coil wire and shut down the engine---and at the same time the flyball governor self-destructed (it too was by then doing a zillion rpm's). One of the steel balls flew  and hit poor Leonard directly in the kneecap and broke it into a dozen pieces--then the old Ford engine self-destructed in a scream of tortured babbit bearings and shattered castings!! Leonard eventually recovered, though he walked with a limp ever afterwards. We all survived the 1950's, but it certainly was a time that gave rise to a lot of interesting stories.---Brian.
Title: Re: Buzz Saw
Post by: Alan Haisley on February 10, 2015, 04:29:06 PM
I can't find a "speachless" smiley.

As a computer programmer, I was safer. Positive feedback in a math program just causes an exception and stuff stops.
Title: Re: Buzz Saw
Post by: Alan Haisley on February 10, 2015, 04:30:49 PM
Maybe need a donkey engine to haul the broom trees from the closet to the sawmill?  O:-)
Title: Re: Buzz Saw
Post by: Jasonb on February 10, 2015, 04:51:55 PM
Maybe need a donkey engine to haul the broom trees from the closet to the sawmill?  O:-)

Brian has already built one of those :)
Title: Re: Buzz Saw
Post by: rleete on February 10, 2015, 05:57:52 PM
I used one of those with my uncle back when I was a teenager.  Some time in the mid 1970's.  I help load logs, and he operated the thing.  It had some sort of lever arrangement on it so it could operate with little effort.  As I remember, my brother was there as well.  I know we worked for hours, and cut up a huge pile of wood.  Lucky for me, we went back home before I got "volunteered" to help split the logs.

If I remembering correctly, the blade was quite a bit larger than that one.  Seemed like it was as tall as a man, but that's certainly an exaggeration brought on by time.
Title: Re: Buzz Saw
Post by: ShopShoe on February 11, 2015, 02:10:17 PM
I remember sometime in the 1960s seeing some farm boys using a buzz saw to cut firewood for heating their house. (Powered by a two-cylinder John Deere tractor: Once you hear it you know it forever.) They had the cut-off pieces fall into a running square-bale hay elevator which carried it over to dump in a wagon hitched to another tractor to pull it the quarter mile to the house. At the house, they had a chute set up to throw logs off the wagon and send it into the basement of the house, where it fueled a furnace instead of a stove. They could get several weeks of house-heating cut in a morning.

--ShopShoe
Title: Re: Buzz Saw
Post by: chucketn on February 11, 2015, 03:24:01 PM
When I retired from the military , my wife and I returned to my home state of New York and bought a house in a rural community near Ithaca. We soon met a retired farmer who lived nearby. We would share wood cutting labor as we both heated our homes with wood. Burt would cut storm felled oak and ash logs into 8 foot lengths, and split them lengthwise with mall and wedge. We would then cut the splits to stove length on a pto driven buzz saw mounted on the back of a Ford 9N tractor. One load for him, one load for us. Fond memories...

Chuck
Title: Re: Buzz Saw
Post by: Brian Rupnow on February 11, 2015, 09:16:24 PM
Here we go!!! That's a 3 3/8" diameter Makita wood-saw blade, with 3/8" diameter shaft and all frames made from 1/4" aluminum plate, the cross ties between end-frames are 1/4" diameter round. and the log tray angle is 1 1/4" x 1 1/4" x 1/8" aluminum. The "log" shown is 1" diameter. There is no welding anywhere.
(http://i307.photobucket.com/albums/nn294/BrianRupnow/BrianRupnow023/BUZZSAWFULLASSEMBLYNOLOG_zps555c2530.jpg) (http://s307.photobucket.com/user/BrianRupnow/media/BrianRupnow023/BUZZSAWFULLASSEMBLYNOLOG_zps555c2530.jpg.html)
(http://i307.photobucket.com/albums/nn294/BrianRupnow/BrianRupnow023/BUZZSAWFULLASSEMBLYSWUNGOUT_zpsce2c14ca.jpg) (http://s307.photobucket.com/user/BrianRupnow/media/BrianRupnow023/BUZZSAWFULLASSEMBLYSWUNGOUT_zpsce2c14ca.jpg.html)
(http://i307.photobucket.com/albums/nn294/BrianRupnow/BrianRupnow023/BUZZSAWFULLASSEMBLYSWUNGIN_zps12827aa1.jpg) (http://s307.photobucket.com/user/BrianRupnow/media/BrianRupnow023/BUZZSAWFULLASSEMBLYSWUNGIN_zps12827aa1.jpg.html)
Title: Re: Buzz Saw
Post by: Brian Rupnow on February 12, 2015, 04:03:27 PM
Surely, someone-somewhere has built a model buzz saw!!! I can't find a link to one on google. Does anybody else know of one?
Title: Re: Buzz Saw
Post by: Jasonb on February 12, 2015, 04:42:13 PM
Seen a few belted to model traction engines, both sawbenches and racksaws there are a couple of casting sets available as well. Maybe we don't call them buzz saws ;). B
Title: Re: Buzz Saw
Post by: Brian Rupnow on February 12, 2015, 11:46:07 PM
Hang onto your hats---Here we go---
(http://i307.photobucket.com/albums/nn294/BrianRupnow/BrianRupnow023/BUZZSAWFULLASSEMBLY_zpsfef61640.jpg) (http://s307.photobucket.com/user/BrianRupnow/media/BrianRupnow023/BUZZSAWFULLASSEMBLY_zpsfef61640.jpg.html)
Title: Re: Buzz Saw
Post by: Brian Rupnow on February 12, 2015, 11:46:58 PM
(http://i307.photobucket.com/albums/nn294/BrianRupnow/BrianRupnow023/SWINGTRAYENDFRAMERH_zps856bb0ba.jpg) (http://s307.photobucket.com/user/BrianRupnow/media/BrianRupnow023/SWINGTRAYENDFRAMERH_zps856bb0ba.jpg.html)
Title: Re: Buzz Saw
Post by: Brian Rupnow on February 12, 2015, 11:47:42 PM
(http://i307.photobucket.com/albums/nn294/BrianRupnow/BrianRupnow023/SWINGTRAY_zpsd9ea2c75.jpg) (http://s307.photobucket.com/user/BrianRupnow/media/BrianRupnow023/SWINGTRAY_zpsd9ea2c75.jpg.html)
Title: Re: Buzz Saw
Post by: Brian Rupnow on February 12, 2015, 11:49:13 PM
(http://i307.photobucket.com/albums/nn294/BrianRupnow/BrianRupnow023/TRAVELLIMITERBAR_zpsd8936a2c.jpg) (http://s307.photobucket.com/user/BrianRupnow/media/BrianRupnow023/TRAVELLIMITERBAR_zpsd8936a2c.jpg.html)
Title: Re: Buzz Saw
Post by: Brian Rupnow on February 12, 2015, 11:49:52 PM
(http://i307.photobucket.com/albums/nn294/BrianRupnow/BrianRupnow023/BUZZSAW-SPACER_zpse01cc167.jpg) (http://s307.photobucket.com/user/BrianRupnow/media/BrianRupnow023/BUZZSAW-SPACER_zpse01cc167.jpg.html)
Title: Re: Buzz Saw
Post by: Brian Rupnow on February 12, 2015, 11:50:28 PM
(http://i307.photobucket.com/albums/nn294/BrianRupnow/BrianRupnow023/OILITEBRZBUSHING_zps6b5b4961.jpg) (http://s307.photobucket.com/user/BrianRupnow/media/BrianRupnow023/OILITEBRZBUSHING_zps6b5b4961.jpg.html)
Title: Re: Buzz Saw
Post by: Brian Rupnow on February 12, 2015, 11:51:05 PM
(http://i307.photobucket.com/albums/nn294/BrianRupnow/BrianRupnow023/SAWARBOR_zps3afe3dc9.jpg) (http://s307.photobucket.com/user/BrianRupnow/media/BrianRupnow023/SAWARBOR_zps3afe3dc9.jpg.html)
Title: Re: Buzz Saw
Post by: Brian Rupnow on February 12, 2015, 11:51:40 PM
(http://i307.photobucket.com/albums/nn294/BrianRupnow/BrianRupnow023/SAWBLADEKEEPER_zpsf12c5da9.jpg) (http://s307.photobucket.com/user/BrianRupnow/media/BrianRupnow023/SAWBLADEKEEPER_zpsf12c5da9.jpg.html)
Title: Re: Buzz Saw
Post by: Brian Rupnow on February 12, 2015, 11:52:15 PM
(http://i307.photobucket.com/albums/nn294/BrianRupnow/BrianRupnow023/BUZZSAWPULLEY_zps5888039f.jpg) (http://s307.photobucket.com/user/BrianRupnow/media/BrianRupnow023/BUZZSAWPULLEY_zps5888039f.jpg.html)
Title: Re: Buzz Saw
Post by: Brian Rupnow on February 12, 2015, 11:52:51 PM
(http://i307.photobucket.com/albums/nn294/BrianRupnow/BrianRupnow023/BUZZSAWENDSTAND_zpsd124c473.jpg) (http://s307.photobucket.com/user/BrianRupnow/media/BrianRupnow023/BUZZSAWENDSTAND_zpsd124c473.jpg.html)
Title: Re: Buzz Saw
Post by: Brian Rupnow on February 12, 2015, 11:53:38 PM
(http://i307.photobucket.com/albums/nn294/BrianRupnow/BrianRupnow023/BEARINGHOUSING_zps9558035b.jpg) (http://s307.photobucket.com/user/BrianRupnow/media/BrianRupnow023/BEARINGHOUSING_zps9558035b.jpg.html)
Title: Re: Buzz Saw
Post by: Brian Rupnow on February 12, 2015, 11:54:10 PM
(http://i307.photobucket.com/albums/nn294/BrianRupnow/BrianRupnow023/3375DIAMETERBLADE_zps770e04fe.jpg) (http://s307.photobucket.com/user/BrianRupnow/media/BrianRupnow023/3375DIAMETERBLADE_zps770e04fe.jpg.html)
Title: Re: Buzz Saw
Post by: Brian Rupnow on February 12, 2015, 11:54:45 PM
(http://i307.photobucket.com/albums/nn294/BrianRupnow/BrianRupnow023/BUZZSAWENDFRAMECONNECTOR_zpsa64718f1.jpg) (http://s307.photobucket.com/user/BrianRupnow/media/BrianRupnow023/BUZZSAWENDFRAMECONNECTOR_zpsa64718f1.jpg.html)
Title: Re: Buzz Saw
Post by: Brian Rupnow on February 13, 2015, 12:07:38 AM
To print any of these drawings, click on the actual drawing on your computer screen---That will take you to Photobucket. Choose "download" option from upper right corner. This will download the picture, then you can print it on whatever size paper your printer has. Good Luck!! Let me know if you build one. I take no responsibility for cut fingers!!!---Brian
Title: Re: Buzz Saw
Post by: gunna on February 13, 2015, 07:45:39 AM
Just thinking Brian, the wood of those "broom" trees will be pretty dry and hard, ie difficult to cut across the grain with a small "low-powered" saw. Perhaps you might have to source some green timber from tree prunings or similar.

Ian.
Title: Re: Buzz Saw
Post by: Ian S C on February 13, 2015, 12:27:54 PM
If the "Buz Saw" wont do the job, perhaps something like this will, a junior hacksaw blade, and a 5 watt max power Stirling Engine. A saw similar to this could be built using coping saw blades, or some times a wood cutting blade can be got for the Junior hacksaw frame.
Ian S C
Title: Re: Buzz Saw
Post by: Brian Rupnow on February 13, 2015, 05:49:57 PM
Went down street this morning and invested a whole $11.87 on a blade.  ---And by the way, the blade is 0.036" thick at the hub area. The carbide teeth are .063" wide.
(http://i307.photobucket.com/albums/nn294/BrianRupnow/BrianRupnow023/DONKEYENGINEANDSAWBLADE004_zpsb8b96143.jpg) (http://s307.photobucket.com/user/BrianRupnow/media/BrianRupnow023/DONKEYENGINEANDSAWBLADE004_zpsb8b96143.jpg.html)
Title: Re: Buzz Saw
Post by: Tennessee Whiskey on February 13, 2015, 06:34:21 PM
Brian, digging this one also. I'm thinking a finer pitch blade is going to be best for the broom tree wood, like a finishing cut blade.  That one is an ali cutting machine   though, as well a good rough cut wood blade. .

Eric
Title: Re: Buzz Saw
Post by: jonesie on February 13, 2015, 07:15:11 PM
hi Brian you could also use a fine tooth slitting blade in what ever size and thickness you have. jonesie
Title: Re: Buzz Saw
Post by: Brian Rupnow on February 14, 2015, 09:21:38 PM
That's enough building for one day. I have enough assembled now to test run this thing. No point in spending time on the frame if the saw doesn't cut the way I want it to. I am not terribly impressed by the "look" of the sawblade. I think a slitting saw would have been closer to the look of a real buzz saw blade. Oh well, I only paid $11 for this blade. If it cuts okay, I probably won't change it.
(http://i307.photobucket.com/albums/nn294/BrianRupnow/BrianRupnow023/SAWBLADEANDSHAFTANDBEARINGSUPPORT002_zpse7cb5efe.jpg) (http://s307.photobucket.com/user/BrianRupnow/media/BrianRupnow023/SAWBLADEANDSHAFTANDBEARINGSUPPORT002_zpse7cb5efe.jpg.html)
(http://i307.photobucket.com/albums/nn294/BrianRupnow/BrianRupnow023/SAWBLADEANDSHAFTANDBEARINGSUPPORT003_zps3c3d8ede.jpg) (http://s307.photobucket.com/user/BrianRupnow/media/BrianRupnow023/SAWBLADEANDSHAFTANDBEARINGSUPPORT003_zps3c3d8ede.jpg.html)
Title: Re: Buzz Saw
Post by: Brian Rupnow on February 14, 2015, 11:25:10 PM
The blade most definitely cuts!!! It cuts very well too, and doesn't seem to put any strain on the mill.  Probably tomorrow I will jerry rig the blade and arbor up to some kind of stand and drive it with my side valve engine just to be absolutely sure. Assuming the test is successful, I think I will bolt  two pieces of 1/4" plate together and cut out both sets of frames at the same time. Since both frames have material to be cut away from the 'inside' of the perimeter, I may use my sabre saw with a metal cutting blade to cut away most of the inside material, then finish up on the mill. I can cut the outside of the frames with my bandsaw, then clean up on the mill.
(http://i307.photobucket.com/albums/nn294/BrianRupnow/BrianRupnow024/SAWBLADEINMILL001_zps28e1dd26.jpg) (http://s307.photobucket.com/user/BrianRupnow/media/BrianRupnow024/SAWBLADEINMILL001_zps28e1dd26.jpg.html)
Title: Re: Buzz Saw
Post by: Ian S C on February 15, 2015, 11:42:52 AM
I think you are going the right way with the tooth size, if you went too small(scale of a full size blade)you might have a problem with the teeth getting clogged up.
Dremmel, and Proxon make much smaller blades.

Ian S C
Title: Re: Buzz Saw
Post by: Brian Rupnow on February 15, 2015, 02:32:51 PM
News is not good this morning!! Saw is jerry-rigged to side valve engine. My first problem was keeping the darned belt aligned so it wouldn't fly off as soon as the saw came under load. Many of the partial cuts in the wooden dowel are a result of the belt flying off as the saw reached the heaviest part of the cut. Then when I finally got things moved around to where the belt wouldn't fly off, the engine just ran out of power and stalled about half way thru the "log". I have to ponder this now for a while. I think the sawblade at 1/16" wide is too wide for this set up. Or--the pulley on the saw is too small and needs to be bumped up in size. I didn't want to do that, because I am trying to keep the saw pulley the same size as the saw hub so the log doesn't rub on the drive belt. Or--I need a more powerful engine. The likeliest bet, and the least work for me, is to find a thinner saw blade. As I said in an earlier post, those blades come in 3 packs, which I didn't look at. There may be a thinner, finer toothed blade in the 3 pack. I will investigate this tomorrow. EDIT---I just tried a 1" balsa "log" and the saw goes thru it like poop thru a goose!!!
(http://i307.photobucket.com/albums/nn294/BrianRupnow/BrianRupnow024/SAWJERRY-RIGGED003_zps3b821cdd.jpg) (http://s307.photobucket.com/user/BrianRupnow/media/BrianRupnow024/SAWJERRY-RIGGED003_zps3b821cdd.jpg.html)
Title: Re: Buzz Saw
Post by: Jasonb on February 15, 2015, 04:26:05 PM
Brian, I think you may want to up the size of the engine pully as the blade RPM are not likely to be high enough, take a look at the other side of that cross cut rig I posted earlier and the pully is very large compared to the one on the shaft. Should also help make it "buzz"

I wonder if a 4" x 1/32" slitting saw would be an option with a lowish tooth count.

Have you crowned the pullies a sthat will help keep the belt tracking in the middle.
Title: Re: Buzz Saw
Post by: Brian Rupnow on February 15, 2015, 07:27:35 PM
Jason---There is substance to what you say, however, the greater differential there is in pulley size, the more mechanical disadvantage the engine is running at. I am running a 2:1 ratio right now. If I upped it to 3:1 as your picture shows, my engine would be at an even greater disadvantage.  I will play with saw blade thickness first. Many of the buzz saws that I have seen pictures of have a flywheel attached to the end of the saw arbor. I may have to consider that also.---Brian
Title: Re: Buzz Saw
Post by: Brian Rupnow on February 15, 2015, 07:49:56 PM
Time for some "outhouse math". I just googled it, and linear blade speed should optimally be 150 foot per second. My engine is running at 1500 RPM.  My blade is 3.375" diameter running at approximately 3000 rpm. 3.1416 x 3.375=10.6"=0.88 feet per revolution. 3000 RPM divided by 60=50 revolutions per second.   50 RPS x .88 feet=44 linear feet per second. Jason you are right--Looks like my sawblade should be turning almost 3 times faster than it currently is, unless I have bumbled the math.---Brian
http://joneakes.com/jons-fixit-database/2226-at-what-speed-should-my-saw-blades-spin-
Title: Re: Buzz Saw
Post by: Brian Rupnow on February 15, 2015, 11:16:10 PM
Makita also sells a 44 tooth blade which has a center hole to fit the saw arbor I made. (The blade I have, which is VERY aggresive has 24 teeth.) I will call tomorrow and order the 44 tooth blade.---There is a picture of it in the link.
http://www.amazon.ca/Rockwell-RW9232K-VersaCut-Circular-3-Piece/dp/B005BTM0YE/ref=pd_cp_hi_1
Title: Re: Buzz Saw
Post by: Brian Rupnow on February 16, 2015, 09:25:29 PM
And that, my friend is what a whole days work looks like!! Both end frames are finished, the 1/4" diameter cross ties are finished, and I have put a 1 degree crown on the pulley to help keep the belt on it. All the stores are closed here today for a provincial holiday, so I couldn't order my new blade. All the companies I normally do business with are closed today, and wife is at work, so I played all day in my shop!!
(http://i307.photobucket.com/albums/nn294/BrianRupnow/BrianRupnow024/EBNDFRAMESFINISHED002_zps30bee1f7.jpg) (http://s307.photobucket.com/user/BrianRupnow/media/BrianRupnow024/EBNDFRAMESFINISHED002_zps30bee1f7.jpg.html)
(http://i307.photobucket.com/albums/nn294/BrianRupnow/BrianRupnow024/EBNDFRAMESFINISHED003_zps741664ef.jpg) (http://s307.photobucket.com/user/BrianRupnow/media/BrianRupnow024/EBNDFRAMESFINISHED003_zps741664ef.jpg.html)
Title: Re: Buzz Saw
Post by: Brian Rupnow on February 17, 2015, 01:50:58 AM
I have decided that the buzz saw really needs a base which can be screwed or bolted to the table-top for actual running. So--the clearance holes which were originally called up in the underside of the endstands have changed to  #5-40 tapped holes, and a 1/4" thick baseplate has been added to allow me to firmly attach this saw to my test bench for running.
(http://i307.photobucket.com/albums/nn294/BrianRupnow/BrianRupnow024/BUZZSAWFULLASSEMBLY_zps2bf76cb3.jpg) (http://s307.photobucket.com/user/BrianRupnow/media/BrianRupnow024/BUZZSAWFULLASSEMBLY_zps2bf76cb3.jpg.html)
Title: Re: Buzz Saw
Post by: Brian Rupnow on February 17, 2015, 12:57:23 PM
(http://i307.photobucket.com/albums/nn294/BrianRupnow/BrianRupnow024/BUZZSAWBASE_zpsfa5ad7de.jpg) (http://s307.photobucket.com/user/BrianRupnow/media/BrianRupnow024/BUZZSAWBASE_zpsfa5ad7de.jpg.html)
Title: Re: Buzz Saw
Post by: Brian Rupnow on February 17, 2015, 07:15:09 PM
There we have it with 1" diameter log. Carriage swung out to receive log and carriage swung fully in to cut position. All I have left to build is the "swing limiter strap". I ordered a new fine toothed blade this morning.
(http://i307.photobucket.com/albums/nn294/BrianRupnow/BrianRupnow024/CARRIAGESWUNGINANDOUTWITHLOG001_zps92ec9f42.jpg) (http://s307.photobucket.com/user/BrianRupnow/media/BrianRupnow024/CARRIAGESWUNGINANDOUTWITHLOG001_zps92ec9f42.jpg.html)
(http://i307.photobucket.com/albums/nn294/BrianRupnow/BrianRupnow024/CARRIAGESWUNGINANDOUTWITHLOG002_zpsd72bbf3b.jpg) (http://s307.photobucket.com/user/BrianRupnow/media/BrianRupnow024/CARRIAGESWUNGINANDOUTWITHLOG002_zpsd72bbf3b.jpg.html)
Title: Re: Buzz Saw
Post by: Roger B on February 17, 2015, 07:24:59 PM
Your wife is going to wonder where all her brooms have gone  :) Still following along  :ThumbsUp:  :ThumbsUp:
Title: Re: Buzz Saw
Post by: Brian Rupnow on February 17, 2015, 09:31:40 PM
I'm finished!!!  The bar which limits the amount of "swing out" of the log carriage is finished and installed. Now I have to be honest with you---I've built a lot of models of many different things in the last five years. This, however, is the only model I have built that actually frightens me a bit.  The original buzz saws, were horribly dangerous. People worked with them every day, and let me tell you---You had to be VERY aware of where that saw blade was and where your hands were at all times. It was unusual, but grizzly accidents did occasionally happen with them. ------------And this little saw is no different!!! I own a skill saw, a sabre saw, a chainsaw, a table saw, and a bandsaw.--I am very aware of the safety requirements when using them, and fortunately I still have all of my fingers. I will put a new fine tooth blade on this model saw, will power it up long enough to make a video of it working, and then will sigh with relief when it goes up 'on the shelf" with all my other models!!!
(http://i307.photobucket.com/albums/nn294/BrianRupnow/BrianRupnow024/LIMITERBARFINISHED001_zps8f6f6ff0.jpg) (http://s307.photobucket.com/user/BrianRupnow/media/BrianRupnow024/LIMITERBARFINISHED001_zps8f6f6ff0.jpg.html)
Title: Re: Buzz Saw
Post by: ths on February 18, 2015, 07:17:19 AM
On the shelf Brian? It's too useful to go there. Hugh.
Title: Re: Buzz Saw
Post by: Jasonb on February 18, 2015, 08:26:48 AM
I'm sure you are itching to design a swing back blade guard for it Brian ;)

The fine blade will also have less of a tendancy to snatch as at the start and end of the cut with that existing blade at best you only have one tooth in contact and a big gullet that will want to dig in.
Title: Re: Buzz Saw
Post by: Brian Rupnow on February 18, 2015, 03:49:14 PM
If I have done this correctly, this link should get you a download of all the drawings.---Brian
http://www.mediafire.com/download/qaq9xdu4i1cqcsq/MODEL_BUZZ_SAW.zip
Title: Re: Buzz Saw
Post by: Brian Rupnow on February 18, 2015, 08:58:21 PM
The "broom tree" I showed was actually a piece of 1" diameter wooden dowel from the lumberyard. They said that it was kiln dried poplar, but it seems to be harder than any poplar that I have experience with. I tried to buy a 1" softwood (pine or spruce) dowel, but wouldn't you know it, they don't carry softwood dowel!! Not to be outdone by adversity, I grabbed a couple of short pieces of spruce from my "wood scrap pile" (yes, I have one of them to) and made my own 1" softwood dowels. This yielded a nice little pile of 'cord-wood" to try out with my buzz saw when the new blade arrives.
(http://i307.photobucket.com/albums/nn294/BrianRupnow/BrianRupnow024/MAKINGLOGSTOSAW002_zps8f43067a.jpg) (http://s307.photobucket.com/user/BrianRupnow/media/BrianRupnow024/MAKINGLOGSTOSAW002_zps8f43067a.jpg.html)
(http://i307.photobucket.com/albums/nn294/BrianRupnow/BrianRupnow024/MAKINGLOGSTOSAW003_zpsdbc88c62.jpg) (http://s307.photobucket.com/user/BrianRupnow/media/BrianRupnow024/MAKINGLOGSTOSAW003_zpsdbc88c62.jpg.html)
Title: Re: Buzz Saw
Post by: Brian Rupnow on February 19, 2015, 01:18:54 AM
Now THAT my friends, looks like a buzz saw blade!!! 44 teeth and only .028" thick. With any luck, tomorrow will see a buzz saw party!!!
(http://i307.photobucket.com/albums/nn294/BrianRupnow/BrianRupnow024/44TOOTHBLADEONBUSSSAW001_zps41472a06.jpg) (http://s307.photobucket.com/user/BrianRupnow/media/BrianRupnow024/44TOOTHBLADEONBUSSSAW001_zps41472a06.jpg.html)
Title: Re: Buzz Saw
Post by: Brian Rupnow on February 19, 2015, 04:48:40 PM
And this my friends, is the end. I had a hard time to find an engine that would run the saw without bogging down in the middle of the cut, but finally used one of my faithful old hit and miss engines. This lends even a bit more authenticity to the video, because the hit and miss engine was the engine of choice for many buzz saws.  I probably won't use this saw again, because it is amazingly dangerous, just as it's full size ancestors were. It does work, and does indeed cut the logs, albeit more slowly than the full sized buzz saws with much more powerful engines did. If you build one of these, beware--they don't know the difference between a finger and a log, and will happily saw through either!!
DKiX6ESTaV8
Title: Re: Buzz Saw
Post by: Alan Haisley on February 19, 2015, 04:57:57 PM
 :jumpingsmileys:
Nice finish, Brian. And still got all five on that hand  :)
Title: Re: Buzz Saw
Post by: Greg Haisley on February 19, 2015, 05:07:30 PM
I'm guessing your next project will be a scaled down fireplace to burn your sawed split wood.

Beautiful job Brian.  :ThumbsUp:
Title: Re: Buzz Saw
Post by: Brian Rupnow on February 19, 2015, 05:23:59 PM
Thank you, fellows. That will be my last firewood related model. i am pleased how it turned out, and already I know of at least one person who is building the model for a working diorama.--His "sawblade" however will be a piece of round aluminum with smoothed edges and no teeth.---a much safer proposition.---Brian
Title: Re: Buzz Saw
Post by: Roger B on February 19, 2015, 06:18:33 PM
Very nice demonstration  :praise2:  :praise2: You can really hear the engine picking up the load  :ThumbsUp:  :ThumbsUp: To save me (and possibly others) searching what's the bore and stroke of your hit and miss?
Title: Re: Buzz Saw
Post by: Johnmcc69 on February 19, 2015, 08:53:17 PM
Nice job Brian! Now you just need the little shed to display the saw mill, buzz saw, & splitter in.

 Now you need some model metalworking machines...  :stickpoke:

 John
Title: Re: Buzz Saw
Post by: Brian Rupnow on February 19, 2015, 11:17:35 PM
Very nice demonstration  :praise2:  :praise2: You can really hear the engine picking up the load  :ThumbsUp:  :ThumbsUp: To save me (and possibly others) searching what's the bore and stroke of your hit and miss?
That engine has a 1" bore and a 1 3/8" stroke.--Brian
Title: Re: Buzz Saw
Post by: Art K on February 20, 2015, 03:40:29 AM
Brian,
That buzz saw sure works good, Nice build.
Art
Title: Re: Buzz Saw
Post by: swilliams on February 20, 2015, 08:52:24 AM
Very nice Brian, and a great video too

Steve
Title: Re: Buzz Saw
Post by: ChipMaker on March 02, 2015, 07:36:13 PM
Brian; I have been thinking about a buzz saw too, something that my new finished Elmer's #5 geared engine (steam/compressed) air might power for a show.  I would like to have a "operator" in front of it, moving a log like it is being cut.  Below the saw setup, there would be some logs already cut.  And as for a saw blade, there are all kinds of small slot cutting blades for cheap, that could be used.  As a mater of fact, I recently tore apart a HP printer that had a plastic disk about 2" in diameter that looks exactly like a saw blade!  I think it was used to increment the printer cartridges or something.  Hobby shops that are in the model train hobby, generally have a selections of building materials, usually in plastic in many forms and shapes that are used for layout building that could be used in this project.  Let's keep this thread going and see what we can come up with.  BTW, I have used the real buzz saw on the back of a tractor; you have to keep your wits about you when doing so!  Karl, CM
Title: Re: Buzz Saw
Post by: Brian Rupnow on March 02, 2015, 08:41:19 PM
Chipmaker--See post #53. This issue has already been finished and put to bed. What is there about the thread that you would like to keep going? The design is finished and there is a download link to the updated drawings. There is a source and a part number for the saw blade on post #42. A 2" diameter blade will not work on my model because it is too small in diameter to saw thru a 1" log.----Brian
Title: Re: Buzz Saw
Post by: ChipMaker on April 25, 2015, 02:05:47 AM
Hi Brian;

I love your two color sketches of a buzz saw.  I want to make a model of one too, mine will be smaller than yours and I think that I will drive it with my Elmers #14 Wobble Plate steam (air) engine.  Harbor Freight has a assortment of small circular saw blades like for a small Dremel hand grinder that I thought I might use for mine.  I would make my buzz saw stand/frame our of very thin steel like from a tin can along with a operator made from the same material.  I would then paint it all up to look like a old time toy that would be driven by a small model (toy) steam engine. 

My son has a buzz saw that was made by his grandfather that is fitted to a Farmall Cub tractor.  We have used this buzz saw years ago, and when we do, we be sure to keep our "wits" about us!

My buzz saw is all in my head at the moment, but I will be cutting tin for it soon!  Happy building, Karl
Title: Re: Buzz Saw
Post by: Jimsmodels on June 02, 2015, 01:24:06 AM
Brian
I build a model buzz saw rig 25 years ago, but after building it, it  looked like a good way to get hurt, so I never used it . I had a guy walk up at a show, while I had it on static display, and said is that blade sharp?. He poked it with a finger and drew blood. After that I left it home. I never took any pictures
but still have it somewhere. It looks like the ones in your picture.
I build a drag saw in 15 years ago, and I run that at shows once in a while. the people get a kick out of it. I cut off small pieces and give them away. Here's a picture of it.
Title: Re: Buzz Saw
Post by: Brian Rupnow on June 02, 2015, 01:58:23 AM
Jim--judging by the responses I got to my "buzz saw" thread, I think most people thought I might be a bit crazy to build something so dangerous. and it they aren't wrong!!! It was rather terrifying to make the video of it cutting "logs' Both it and the woodsplitter worked great, but both had the ability to remove a finger in very short order. I have never ran then since making the video's. I would never run them at a show, or for that matter with anyone at all near me. I've made it thru 69 years with all my digits intact, and hope to keep it that way.
Title: Re: Buzz Saw
Post by: PStechPaul on June 02, 2015, 05:14:42 AM
I just caught up on this one. Wow, a "digital amputator"! Nice project, Brian.

Seeing the saw powered by a 5 watt Stirling engine makes me think of the USB powered chainsaw. That would be just 2.5 watts maximum (5V 500mA). Since a miniature chain saw seems very difficult, perhaps I may make a buzz saw, but for matchsticks and maybe tongue depressors.

http://www.thisiswhyimbroke.com/usb-powered-chainsaw (http://www.thisiswhyimbroke.com/usb-powered-chainsaw)
http://www.coolthings.com/the-isaw-%e2%80%93-a-usb-chainsaw/ (http://www.coolthings.com/the-isaw-%e2%80%93-a-usb-chainsaw/)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UjFlbNIo4QU
 
Here are some cool miniature tools including a pedal-powered "buzz saw":
http://www.shakerworkswest.com/OldePedalTools.htm (http://www.shakerworkswest.com/OldePedalTools.htm)