Model Engine Maker

Engines => Your Own Design => Topic started by: keith5700 on January 11, 2014, 01:59:55 PM

Title: 1/3rd scale V10
Post by: keith5700 on January 11, 2014, 01:59:55 PM
Hello all. After completing a V8 I decided I wanted to do another engine. V8 and V12 have been done so I thought I'd try a V10. Initial research showed there wasn't much info out there, but I figured out the firing order and crank design eventually.
To get an even firing sequence the block vee should be 72 degrees, to match the crank angles.
The Dodge Viper has a 90 degree block and unequal firing angles.
Some engines have 90 degree blocks but have an 18 degree offset on the crank pins, to compensate.
I decided on a 10 degree crank pin offset and an 82 degree block.

It'll become more apparent when I get the pics up. It took a while for me to get my head round it all.
I'm a couple of months into the build now, so I'll just bang a load of pics up first, to get up to date.

I tend to just put pics up with a brief description, so if anyone wants more info then please just ask.
I've got no secrets, everything I do is available if requested, drawings, methods etc.

I also tend to make things up as I go along, so at the moment I've no idea what the heads or exhaust or cooling system etc is going to look like.

Right, rods first.....

(http://i28.photobucket.com/albums/c201/keith5700/006_zpse9c11536.jpg)

(http://i28.photobucket.com/albums/c201/keith5700/007_zpsc0735fd8.jpg)

(http://i28.photobucket.com/albums/c201/keith5700/009_zpsbf7adc71.jpg)

(http://i28.photobucket.com/albums/c201/keith5700/010_zpsa35252a7.jpg)

(http://i28.photobucket.com/albums/c201/keith5700/011_zps08ceba39.jpg)

(http://i28.photobucket.com/albums/c201/keith5700/012_zps84fcadc2.jpg)

(http://i28.photobucket.com/albums/c201/keith5700/014_zpsef6b87e8.jpg)

(http://i28.photobucket.com/albums/c201/keith5700/009_zps1f06cfd3.jpg)
Title: Re: 1/3rd scale V10
Post by: keith5700 on January 11, 2014, 02:16:35 PM
The crankshaft was machined mostly on the milling machine using the dividing head.
The crank pin offset was easier than I thought
It took a while to make the end tooling, but I wanted to be able to do a quick re-grind in the future, if required.
I used the grinding setup from the v8 camshaft build to finish the crank off. It worked a treat.

(http://i28.photobucket.com/albums/c201/keith5700/image_zps83bf4bc6.jpg)

(http://i28.photobucket.com/albums/c201/keith5700/image_zpsd221a51b.jpg)

(http://i28.photobucket.com/albums/c201/keith5700/image_zpsa617d17d.jpg)

(http://i28.photobucket.com/albums/c201/keith5700/image_zpsf0199e9d.jpg)

(http://i28.photobucket.com/albums/c201/keith5700/image_zpsde5ea223.jpg)

(http://i28.photobucket.com/albums/c201/keith5700/image_zps3a8c0a45.jpg)

(http://i28.photobucket.com/albums/c201/keith5700/image_zpsc9bcbbc3.jpg)

(http://i28.photobucket.com/albums/c201/keith5700/image_zps077b6f45.jpg)
Title: Re: 1/3rd scale V10
Post by: keith5700 on January 11, 2014, 02:25:13 PM
The block looked like a big hefty lump but the dividing head is robust enough to machine it by just being bolted on at the one end. I thought it would need a centre steady on it, but it was fine.

(http://i28.photobucket.com/albums/c201/keith5700/image_zpse8a91acb.jpg)

(http://i28.photobucket.com/albums/c201/keith5700/image_zpsd3b5698b.jpg)

(http://i28.photobucket.com/albums/c201/keith5700/image_zps3a5dccd0.jpg)

(http://i28.photobucket.com/albums/c201/keith5700/image_zps9ced2368.jpg)

(http://i28.photobucket.com/albums/c201/keith5700/image_zpsf30bd69b.jpg)

Some of these pics are in the wrong order, as you can see.....

(http://i28.photobucket.com/albums/c201/keith5700/image_zpsff0ba972.jpg)

(http://i28.photobucket.com/albums/c201/keith5700/image_zps147be56d.jpg)

(http://i28.photobucket.com/albums/c201/keith5700/image_zps4962085d.jpg)

(http://i28.photobucket.com/albums/c201/keith5700/image_zps8e4a3bf0.jpg)

(http://i28.photobucket.com/albums/c201/keith5700/image_zps2de8b751.jpg)

(http://i28.photobucket.com/albums/c201/keith5700/image_zps1aaa4839.jpg)

(http://i28.photobucket.com/albums/c201/keith5700/image_zps26061e8a.jpg)
Title: Re: 1/3rd scale V10
Post by: Dave Otto on January 11, 2014, 03:27:48 PM
That crankshaft is a work of art!

The other parts are pretty darn nice too.

Dave
Title: Re: 1/3rd scale V10
Post by: steamer on January 11, 2014, 03:44:41 PM
A man afta me own heart.....You bored it on the 608! :jumpingsmileys:

Looks awesome Keith....when the Wallaby is done. I want to do a V12...with Steves parts.

Dave

Or ...perhaps...based on your dividing head...that's a Hardinge Cataract?
Title: Re: 1/3rd scale V10
Post by: sco on January 11, 2014, 04:05:29 PM
Agreed - awesome work there!

Thanks for posting, gives me the inclination to get back to my V8.

Simon.
Title: Re: 1/3rd scale V10
Post by: mikemill on January 11, 2014, 04:24:17 PM
Keith
Your workmanship is superb, I am interested in the non working surface's you achieve they look as though they are sand blasted, is that so? also what kind of references do you use or are you designing from scratch?

Thanks
Mike
Title: Re: 1/3rd scale V10
Post by: Roger B on January 11, 2014, 04:31:33 PM
That is magnificent  :praise2:
Title: Re: 1/3rd scale V10
Post by: smfr on January 11, 2014, 05:00:47 PM
Great stuff, Keith  :ThumbsUp: :ThumbsUp: :ThumbsUp:

Can you talk about those little split bearings a bit? Did you solder on the little peg that holds them in place?

Simon
Title: Re: 1/3rd scale V10
Post by: vcutajar on January 11, 2014, 05:53:13 PM
Great work there Keith.  All manual or CNC?

Vince
Title: Re: 1/3rd scale V10
Post by: keith5700 on January 11, 2014, 11:14:52 PM
I'm not sure what make the dividing head is, it would be nice to identify it. I'll get a pic up. I got it as a block of rust and rebuilt it.
The finish on the rods is glass bead blasting. The crank has been shot preened with 330 sized steel shot, at low air pressure, just to give an as cast finish.

The pins on the rod bearings are soft soldered in. They are made from 1/16" brazing rod.
The rods were assembled with the bearings and then drilled in one go through the end cap into the rod, so all the holes lined up.

I have no cnc equipment, so everything was done manually. I would really like to get some cnc milling capability.

I have made the cast iron liners. These were made from some extruded cast bar which machines beautifully. I bored them all at the same setting on the Rivett lathe, and they came out almost perfect. I just honed them another thou' by hand afterwards which gave an amazing finish.

(http://i28.photobucket.com/albums/c201/keith5700/image_zpsb25ecfa7.jpg)
(http://i28.photobucket.com/albums/c201/keith5700/image_zps8d3fb16d.jpg)

Title: Re: 1/3rd scale V10
Post by: b.lindsey on January 12, 2014, 12:53:26 AM
Stunning work Keith.   :praise2:   I think the bead blasting and shot peening add a lot to the look too!

Bill
Title: Re: 1/3rd scale V10
Post by: gbritnell on January 12, 2014, 03:17:20 AM
Hi Keith,
I followed everything on your first build and have complete admiration for your machining skills. In my many years of building and looking there aren't many that fit into this class, especially using hand tools. I'll definitely be following along on this build to pick up little tricks that you use for your fabrication and finishing.
When I saw your setup for line boring the block I was amazed at how little area on the cross slide you had to clamp the block down. I think this would have tensed me up to no end. One thing I did when I line bored my Holt engine was to make the bar with multiple inserts in it, one for each journal. That way I didn't have to run the carriage as far to finish the bores. I cut up pieces of 1/8th high speed steel, sharpened them and inserted them into the bar. I then miked over the bar and insert to set the cutting depth. I inserted the bar, mounted it between centers and then made my cut.
gbritnell
Title: Re: 1/3rd scale V10
Post by: fumopuc on January 12, 2014, 06:33:03 AM
Hi Keith, that is really impressive. And I have to recognize, that I am still far away of such a kind build.
Title: Re: 1/3rd scale V10
Post by: steamer on January 12, 2014, 07:08:40 AM
Right the first time....a 608 (Rivett)...nice.

The dividing head would appear to be....perhaps .... a Kempsmith.

Beautiful engine and jigs ...thanks for posting that!

Dave
Title: Re: 1/3rd scale V10
Post by: steamer on January 12, 2014, 07:17:34 AM
Here's the manual for a Kempsmith dividing head....it's 22MB...so open it carefully.

See if it matches......

http://www.vintagemachinery.org/pubs/2107/5797.pdf

Dave
Title: Re: 1/3rd scale V10
Post by: keith5700 on January 12, 2014, 08:10:52 AM
Mike, my references for designing stuff is just to keep plodding away looking at pics, and reading stuff on forums. Most things are designed from scratch these days, but I do a lot of image Googling, looking for pretty things to copy.

Hi George, the line boring was done with the boring bar running in the end two end bearings of the block.
I made the cutter from 1/8 carbide rod, and it had an m3 grub screw behind it to feed the cut in.
I did a reference cut, then dismantled it all, measured the bores and then calculated the amount to turn the grub screw to get the finished bore. Amazingly it actually worked, giving a 1 thou clearance on the crank diameters.

Dave, yes, Kempsmith dividing head. Thanks for that, identified at last.
Title: Re: 1/3rd scale V10
Post by: mikemill on January 12, 2014, 12:20:38 PM
Keith

The reason I asked about references was because I started a 1/4 scale Coswoth DFV V8 some years ago with only basic info bore, and stroke and limited CAD skills. I worked on the principle of make crank, rods, and pistons then create a block around known measurements. Then decided to dummy a block in MDF but got thoroughly confused, so put all to one side until I could as you say get your head around the problems. So the beast sits on the corner of the bench and looks at me wondering if it will ever be finished!!  As my CAD skills have improved, your thread is encouraging me to resurrect the project. Here are a few pics of how far I got.

Mike
Title: Re: 1/3rd scale V10
Post by: steamer on January 12, 2014, 01:30:24 PM
Beautiful work Mike!

Dave
Title: Re: 1/3rd scale V10
Post by: keith5700 on January 12, 2014, 01:37:44 PM
Mike, there doesn't appear to be anything wrong with your machining skills anyway, so that's a good start.
On the v8 I scaled down the small block Chevy to begin with, but it soon became apparent it wasn't going to work well, with the type of cylinder liners I wanted to use, so the bore centres are larger than scale, and the piston diameters are smaller, etc.

Your pistons are very close to each other, so in my opinion you'll have to use thin wall steel liners and machine out the whole of the block around the liners, so they are virtually touching each other. Then you'll need a top deck plate to seal it all off.

The 4 valve arrangement will be tricky too, but should be doable.

If you PM me your email I can send over a few PDFs of my v8 block if you like. It may give you some ideas you can use.

Bear in mind, in my case, crank,rods and pistons took up just 6 weeks of a 120 week build. Cheers.
Title: Re: 1/3rd scale V10
Post by: keith5700 on January 22, 2014, 10:06:39 PM
A bit more progress to report. I made the piston rings, using the same extruded (pultruded?) cast iron bar.
I used the non heat method. I'm not sure who's method this is, but I read it somewhere.
After turning and parting off the oversized rings they were mounted in a fixture and a 2 mm cutter ran through to produce the gap.
Then they were closed up in another jig and the outside diameter was turned, to be an exact fit in the bores.
The sides were flattened by fitting the ring into a little holder, and rubbing on some 2500 grade wet and dry paper on a glass flat.
Lastly the gaps were set. I went for 4 thou top ring, and 3 thou for middle and bottom rings.
I may open the top rings up a bit later if I get any form of supercharging on the engine.

(http://i28.photobucket.com/albums/c201/keith5700/image_zps8dec1e6d.jpg)

(http://i28.photobucket.com/albums/c201/keith5700/image_zpsa1b99566.jpg)

(http://i28.photobucket.com/albums/c201/keith5700/image_zps0432cbaf.jpg)

(http://i28.photobucket.com/albums/c201/keith5700/image_zpsca0804a2.jpg)

(http://i28.photobucket.com/albums/c201/keith5700/image_zpsce28a665.jpg)

I also drilled the block for the water jackets. The liners are double o ringed to seal the water system.

(http://i28.photobucket.com/albums/c201/keith5700/image_zps85bbe6b8.jpg)

(http://i28.photobucket.com/albums/c201/keith5700/image_zps52cbdbeb.jpg)

(http://i28.photobucket.com/albums/c201/keith5700/image_zpsbc88ba8c.jpg)

(http://i28.photobucket.com/albums/c201/keith5700/image_zpsca8f1cb3.jpg)
Title: Re: 1/3rd scale V10
Post by: b.lindsey on January 23, 2014, 12:36:10 AM
Man, that's a lot of rings Keith...buts its a lot of pistons and con rods too. I admire you multi cylinder guys a lot for your sheer tenacity :)

Bill
Title: Re: 1/3rd scale V10
Post by: Don1966 on January 23, 2014, 01:18:00 AM
I am awed! That is some incredible work and beautiful craftsmanship. I like........... :ThumbsUp:


Don
Title: Re: 1/3rd scale V10
Post by: steamer on January 23, 2014, 02:02:25 AM
I am going to blatantly steal that cylinder liner design for a project I'm working on!

 :ThumbsUp:


Dave
Title: Re: 1/3rd scale V10
Post by: keith5700 on February 01, 2014, 04:53:56 PM
Dave, feel free to pinch anything you wish.
Not much to show this week, but I've put a lot of hours in.
The heads have been roughed out and bolted to the block, still in the dividing head.
Most of the head machining will now be done with the dividing head.
First job was to mill out the pockets and bore the valve guide holes.
Instead of screwing the valve guides in as on the v8 I'm going to use a locknut at the top this time.
The threads are M20 x 1.
Ive put a couple of drawings in too, just for interest.
The cam drive will be different this time. I'm going for variable valve timing on the inlet cam. This works by moving the idler pulley which is between the cam pulleys. This will advance the inlet cam by, say, 20 degrees.
The downside is that I need to use seperate belts for each bank, as the left hand bank needs to run anticlockwise, but it should look nice. The gears are 0.7 module helical.

(http://i28.photobucket.com/albums/c201/keith5700/image_zps0256a94b.jpg)

(http://i28.photobucket.com/albums/c201/keith5700/image_zps7e28fde9.jpg)

(http://i28.photobucket.com/albums/c201/keith5700/image_zps835f6037.jpg)

(http://i28.photobucket.com/albums/c201/keith5700/image_zps0bd53db0.jpg)

(http://i28.photobucket.com/albums/c201/keith5700/image_zpscde1d120.jpg)
Title: Re: 1/3rd scale V10
Post by: steamer on February 01, 2014, 05:40:56 PM
That looks great Keith.   I like the locknut design.   The cylinder design simplifies the block as well.   I've considered large bore thin section ball bearings for the mains on a V12 project that I'm still sketching up.    But I really like what you've done.    Tell us more about the variable timing... :headscratch:

Dave
Title: Re: 1/3rd scale V10
Post by: dieselpilot on February 01, 2014, 10:13:49 PM
Keith, this engine looks great! I don't see how moving that idler located between the cam pulleys will have any effect on cam phasing. You'd have to change the length of belt before and after a cam to change the phasing. It would take an idler before and after the intake cam to change phase. Two are required because the overall length of the belt can't change and you don't want to change exhaust phasing. Some planning is required to get the idlers positioned correctly so as not to change the overall belt length required. I'd guess why you're driving the cams in opposite directions, but I'll simply ask why.
Title: Re: 1/3rd scale V10
Post by: steamer on February 01, 2014, 10:49:11 PM
Diesel,

I "think" he plans to change the timing idler gears before the belts.......I think..... :headscratch:
Title: Re: 1/3rd scale V10
Post by: keith5700 on February 02, 2014, 12:33:36 AM
I'll get a better drawing of the variable cam stuff up during the week. Basically the centre idler pulley comes down, which advances the inlet cam a bit. There will be some slack on the trailing side of the belt which will be taken up by a spring loaded idler. The centre idler will be hydraulically actuated.
The drawing doesn't show it very well at present.

Thg left side has to be a mirror image of the right bank for this to work properly, which also means it has to rotate the opposite way too. It's work in progress at the moment tho, but it works ok in my head.
There may be a fundamental flaw in the plan yet, but it seems like it should work.
Cheers.
Title: Re: 1/3rd scale V10
Post by: dieselpilot on February 02, 2014, 02:35:55 AM
I didn't see the spring loaded idler, so you do have two pulleys. I think that is workable. I thought that was why you had the mirrored arrangement and the idler explanation supports that.

Carry on!
Title: Re: 1/3rd scale V10
Post by: keith5700 on March 02, 2014, 07:59:55 PM
(http://i28.photobucket.com/albums/c201/keith5700/image_zpsa05f3565.jpg)

(http://i28.photobucket.com/albums/c201/keith5700/image_zps511a7cd2.jpg)

(http://i28.photobucket.com/albums/c201/keith5700/image_zps69941a3d.jpg)

(http://i28.photobucket.com/albums/c201/keith5700/image_zpsff0ae4b8.jpg)


(http://i28.photobucket.com/albums/c201/keith5700/image_zpscab7c5d0.jpg)

(http://i28.photobucket.com/albums/c201/keith5700/image_zps4ffe8c96.jpg)


Title: Re: 1/3rd scale V10
Post by: steamer on March 02, 2014, 08:04:57 PM
That looks awesome Keith....a 275GTB 3 liter Ferrari V12 is on my list....I like your design details....taking notes!

Dave
Title: Re: 1/3rd scale V10
Post by: keith5700 on March 02, 2014, 08:08:44 PM
Sorry to just bang photos up with no write up, but I lost the text when I was halfway thro uploading the photos, so I'm doing it in two halves now. Still can't get used to the tapping required on the ipad.
There's a couple of drawings which may be of interest.

I've spent ages just making multiples of various things, locknuts, valve guides, head gasket rings, etc.
Then I made a start on the cam drive system. This will all be mounted on the steel plate set into the front of the block.
Hopefully the drawing of the belt arrangement will show better how it works. One side is shown on full advance and the other on full retard.

I made the plate from bright mild steel, but it bent like a banana after the first cut off one face, so I've been fighting it all weekend trying to machine it to size and leave it flat. I'll use ordinary black bar next time.
Title: Re: 1/3rd scale V10
Post by: smfr on March 02, 2014, 08:44:30 PM
Amazing stuff, Keith! Black bar = hot-rolled from the hardware store?

Simon
Title: Re: 1/3rd scale V10
Post by: zeeprogrammer on March 02, 2014, 08:51:53 PM
I'd missed this thread. Awesome project. And awesome parts.
I can't wait to see this one run.
Title: Re: 1/3rd scale V10
Post by: Stuart on March 04, 2014, 08:19:17 AM
Simon

I suspect the ref to black bar means hot rolled the stuff with the scale on it

Being hot rolled it will not warp as the internal stresses have gone with the hot rolling

But as usual I may be wrong

BTW great work on the engine way beyond me and I have been at this game a long time but never done a IC one

Stuart
Title: Re: 1/3rd scale V10
Post by: BillTodd on March 04, 2014, 08:37:46 AM
Wow8-)

I opened this thread on the last post above and thought you were using a cnc machine! Fabulous machining :D

Bill
Title: Re: 1/3rd scale V10
Post by: keith5700 on March 04, 2014, 10:18:26 PM
Yes, black bar, as in the hot rolled stuff with the black, or dark grey, scale.
I realised the bright bar would bend, but I thought I'd be able to machine both sides and bring it back flat, but it didn't work. Won't use that stuff again in a hurry.

Bill, thank you, yes all manual. I need to get some cnc stuff one day, I've just about reached the limit of the manual machines.
Title: Re: 1/3rd scale V10
Post by: keith5700 on April 16, 2014, 01:02:17 PM
Doesn't time fly?
I've got a fair few pics to upload over the next few days, to bring me up to date.

Firstly the cam belt drive gear train is in....

(http://i28.photobucket.com/albums/c201/keith5700/imagejpg1_zps5b729e38.jpg)

(http://i28.photobucket.com/albums/c201/keith5700/imagejpg2_zps1bcf6f85.jpg)

Then I fancied trying the cam covers. I wanted some better lugs on them this time, compared with the V8 ones, so ended up with this design,

(http://i28.photobucket.com/albums/c201/keith5700/imagejpg3_zps54fbcfdc.jpg)

Here is a list of co-ordinates needed to do the lugs on one side. So I had to go thro this lot 4 times, but I think it was worth it.

(http://i28.photobucket.com/albums/c201/keith5700/imagejpg6_zps9b9ef41a.jpg)

(http://i28.photobucket.com/albums/c201/keith5700/imagejpg4_zpsf1d0d308.jpg)

(http://i28.photobucket.com/albums/c201/keith5700/imagejpg7_zps4e1646b7.jpg)
Title: Re: 1/3rd scale V10
Post by: keith5700 on April 16, 2014, 01:09:45 PM
With the cam covers roughed out I could then line bore the camshaft bearings. I'm using the  lathe to turn and power feed, but the alignment is taken care of by running the boring bar in the end bronze bushes. Any misalignment in the drive is taken up by the  hex. allen key shaft drive..
(http://i28.photobucket.com/albums/c201/keith5700/imagejpg10_zps8e144564.jpg)

(http://i28.photobucket.com/albums/c201/keith5700/imagejpg11_zpsa2554ced.jpg)

Then I wanted to cut the combustion chambers in the heads. To get the block volume I filled the gap with plastacine modelling clay, cut it flush and then pulled the clay out. Then the clay was pushed into a tube and measured, and the volume worked out. It worked great, far better than messing about with liquids.

I ended up with a comp. ratio of 8.3:1. No pics of head yet.

(http://i28.photobucket.com/albums/c201/keith5700/imagejpg22_zps8f6aa83a.jpg)

(http://i28.photobucket.com/albums/c201/keith5700/imagejpg23_zpsdc2e5362.jpg)
Title: Re: 1/3rd scale V10
Post by: gbritnell on April 16, 2014, 01:37:04 PM
Hi Keith,
Great work as usual. Where did you come by all the helical gears for the cam drive? Did you make them or were they off the shelf items?
gbritnell
Title: Re: 1/3rd scale V10
Post by: keith5700 on April 16, 2014, 03:37:49 PM
George, I bought the gears. I didn't want to use loads of time up making them. They were from HPC in the UK. About 75 for the 5 gears.
Cheers.
Title: Re: 1/3rd scale V10
Post by: keith5700 on April 16, 2014, 04:00:56 PM
Here is the making of the cam gear cover. Hopefully the pics are self explanetory....

(http://i28.photobucket.com/albums/c201/keith5700/imagejpg12_zps5daef707.jpg)#

(http://i28.photobucket.com/albums/c201/keith5700/imagejpg13_zps301d5cb4.jpg)

(http://i28.photobucket.com/albums/c201/keith5700/imagejpg14_zps118c095b.jpg)

(http://i28.photobucket.com/albums/c201/keith5700/imagejpg16_zps70187ec0.jpg)

(http://i28.photobucket.com/albums/c201/keith5700/imagejpg17_zps2c122008.jpg)

(http://i28.photobucket.com/albums/c201/keith5700/imagejpg18_zps6ff3ccaa.jpg)

(http://i28.photobucket.com/albums/c201/keith5700/imagejpg21_zps5fddbae0.jpg)
Title: Re: 1/3rd scale V10
Post by: Coopertje on May 07, 2014, 09:38:36 PM
Hi Keith, every time I see a post of you I have to clean my Ipad, there is drewl all over it. You are a true artist  :praise2:you brain must smoke when machining this parts, keep the mill diameter on the correct side etc. so easy to make a wrong movement and ruin the part. Keep the pics comming, although way beyond my skills I am learning and enjoying them a lot! Thanks for sharing.

Jeroen
Title: Re: 1/3rd scale V10
Post by: Sacredbloodline on May 16, 2014, 03:11:06 AM
Keith, I have been following your work for quite some time and I, like most, love your work and attention to detail. I know you're probably busy ornstuck on something but I was just wondering about progress. Also, have you done any thinking or research on the type of forced induction you might do?
Title: Re: 1/3rd scale V10
Post by: PStechPaul on May 16, 2014, 08:04:15 AM
Every time I catch up on one of these threads I learn a little more about set-up and machining, and realize there is a lot more that I didn't know and still may need to learn. I'm inspired by what is shown to be possible (especially on manual machines), yet humbled by how crude my efforts have been in comparison. But I think that is the beauty of this hobby (although it seems almost sacreligious to call it that) - there is always more to learn and better skills to acquire (or aspire to).
 
Good luck with the rest of this build. Seems you are making impressive progress!
Title: Re: 1/3rd scale V10
Post by: keith5700 on May 16, 2014, 09:03:08 PM
Thanks for comments. Yes I'm stuck on the camshafts at the moment. I'll get some pics up soon.
I finally got round to hardening one yesterday (drill rod/silver steel) , but it bent about 2mm in the centre.
I tempered it in the oven and it bent a bit more.
So I tried to straighten it, but ended up snapping it.

I hardened the other three today but these didn't bend much, due to a better heating and quenching method, so I've started grinding them up today.
Been on them two weeks so far and still got to grind lobes and then make another complete shaft.
Cheers.
Title: Re: 1/3rd scale V10
Post by: keith5700 on May 20, 2014, 12:57:05 PM
some pics....
this is the depth gauge for setting the spark plug lengths. I went for a M6 x 0.5 thread, which looks extremely fine, but it means the ptfe liner can be a bit bigger diameter than in the old M6 x 1 threaded plugs.

(http://i28.photobucket.com/albums/c201/keith5700/imagejpg2_zps9a78a35d.jpg)

This is a quick mock-up of the belt arrangement.

(http://i28.photobucket.com/albums/c201/keith5700/imagejpg1_zps67363dc5.jpg)

Cutting the timing pulley gears. This way turned out to be crap and I went over it again with a 2mm ball cutter after.

(http://i28.photobucket.com/albums/c201/keith5700/imagejpg1_zps1e70ec7f.jpg)

Vernier pulley details..

(http://i28.photobucket.com/albums/c201/keith5700/imagejpg2_zpsb9464c42.jpg)

(http://i28.photobucket.com/albums/c201/keith5700/imagejpg1_zps370d55e4.jpg)

Milling out the camshaft blanks...
(http://i28.photobucket.com/albums/c201/keith5700/imagejpg2_zpse01a719f.jpg)

Grinding the cam lobes and centre bearing journals..

(http://i28.photobucket.com/albums/c201/keith5700/imagejpg4_zps119799dd.jpg)

(http://i28.photobucket.com/albums/c201/keith5700/imagejpg1_zpsaa7e9820.jpg)


Title: Re: 1/3rd scale V10
Post by: Roger B on May 20, 2014, 02:05:10 PM
Looking good  :praise2:  :praise2:

I'm trying to understand the last picture of the cam grinding. Is the master cam on the far left, driven by the timing belt from the chuck? Is there an indexing arrangement by the timing pulley? Is there some form of scaling linkage between the master cam and the grinding wheel?

Good luck in finishing all four  :ThumbsUp:  :ThumbsUp: I struggle with one single cylinder camshaft.
Title: Re: 1/3rd scale V10
Post by: keith5700 on May 20, 2014, 08:56:44 PM
Roger, you are correct on all three observations. The indexing is on the left hand pulley in the pic.
I'll try and get a drawing up later. I made the jig for the v8 and then modded it for 1/3 scale for this, but when I looked at it I couldn't work out how I'd made it work the first time.
After a bit of head scratching I figured out how I'd done it, but a drawing will explain it better.
Cheers.
Title: Re: 1/3rd scale V10
Post by: Sacredbloodline on July 19, 2014, 05:41:41 AM
::crickets chirping::

So, Keith, any progress in the past weeks? Just curious
Title: Re: 1/3rd scale V10
Post by: keith5700 on July 21, 2014, 01:15:36 PM
Yes, I've been plodding through all the valvegear for the past 6 weeks. I started to lose my way a bit, thinking that I should be doing something else with my life. I think it's because of the boredom of making 20 off of everything on the valvegear. I'm getting sidetracked very easily.
Pics to follow soon hopefully, cheers.
Title: Re: 1/3rd scale V10
Post by: Blackrat on July 29, 2014, 01:08:29 PM
Awesome build !

PM'ed :-)
Title: Re: 1/3rd scale V10
Post by: keith5700 on August 26, 2014, 01:03:48 PM
Well I've finally got the valvegear sorted. It's taken ages, and I've got really bored with it.
Hopefully back onto some interesting stuff now.

Some random pics.....

4 x completed camshafts.
(http://i28.photobucket.com/albums/c201/keith5700/imagejpg8_zps31515e82.jpg)

Camshafts with centre needle roller bearings.

(http://i28.photobucket.com/albums/c201/keith5700/imagejpg5_zps42d41d54.jpg)

top of valve with shim fitted. I gave up measuring the gaps in the end, and just went with looking for a line of light.
This gap is about 2 thou'.
(http://i28.photobucket.com/albums/c201/keith5700/imagejpg4_zps8f4c312b.jpg)

Someone asked about the cam grinder setup earlier.
Here is the basic geometry, with 3:1 reduction from master cam.

(http://i28.photobucket.com/albums/c201/keith5700/imagejpg7_zps70632984.jpg)

Better pic of shims, and shim removal slot.

(http://i28.photobucket.com/albums/c201/keith5700/imagejpg2_zpsd83fd18e.jpg)

Collet for roughing out shims. they were hardened and then finished to size by hand.

(http://i28.photobucket.com/albums/c201/keith5700/imagejpg3_zps48956944.jpg)

These are valve blanks in pairs, before and after hardening..

(http://i28.photobucket.com/albums/c201/keith5700/imagejpg10_zps0e2f425f.jpg)

grinding the valve stems after hardening..

(http://i28.photobucket.com/albums/c201/keith5700/imagejpg11_zps0a1e346c.jpg)

I fancied covers over the cam pulleys so wasted far too much time knocking up a pair of these. Hopefully they'll be worth it..

(http://i28.photobucket.com/albums/c201/keith5700/imagejpg6_zps4b2fecc4.jpg)
Title: Re: 1/3rd scale V10
Post by: billmac on August 26, 2014, 03:42:43 PM
Keith -

That is just superb. I'm so glad that you have persisted with this through a period of boredom. Please keep us posted on progress, which should be faster now that the big numbers of parts are done.



Title: Re: 1/3rd scale V10
Post by: Roger B on August 26, 2014, 07:15:02 PM
Absolutely magnificent  :praise2:  :praise2: As I said two lobes is enough for me  ::) Still following along
Title: Re: 1/3rd scale V10
Post by: agmachado on August 28, 2014, 02:21:24 AM
No words... very cool!
Title: Re: 1/3rd scale V10
Post by: Allen Smithee on August 28, 2014, 10:07:13 AM
I hope you don't mind a few quick "clueless newbe" questions?

Am I right in assuming that the basic cam blanks are turned, and then these are put in the mill to take the bulk of the unwanted material off the cam lobes (and presumably add any keyway features) before hardenning and then finally grinding the lobes to shape?

- How close to the final shape do you take it to the final shape in the mill (ie how much do you leave to grind off after hardenning)?
- What sort of speed do you rotate the cam whilst grinding?
- Do you grind to final form in one pass or do you let the follower lift off the master cam on multiple passes until it finally gets down to the required shape? If the latter what sort of contact pressure (weight) do you put on the grind-stone?

I know nothing of grinding, but several of my potential future projects will involve camshafts and I'm toying with the idea of making a dedicated cam-grinding machine/fixture using some redundant lathe parts but I need to know a lot more before deciding whether my idea would work!

TIA,

AS
Title: Re: 1/3rd scale V10
Post by: keith5700 on August 28, 2014, 01:03:48 PM
Allen,
I started off in the mill and removed the excess in the lathe.
I did it this way as I could use the mill DRO to position the lobes accurately.
The lobes were then finally shaped in the mill with the dividing head, producing a series of flats.
I think I left about 20 thou' all round on the lobes for grinding, after hardening.
If your cams are short then you could get away with less. I had to leave enough on in case the shafts bent during hardening.
Cam rotated about 60rpm.
The follower is in contact with the master cam all the time. The whole thing is then gradually fed into the cam on the crosslide, until
you get down to the finished lobe size.
You will very quickly get a feel of what is the right feed rate.
You need to allow for coolant on the lobe all the time as it will get very hot very quickly.
you are only taking 1 or 2 tenths' per rev, if that. Any more and the grinding wheel will need trueing up all the time.
Cheers.
Title: Re: 1/3rd scale V10
Post by: Allen Smithee on August 28, 2014, 01:20:11 PM
Brilliant! Many, many thanks Keith - that's exactly what I wanted to know.

AS
Title: Re: 1/3rd scale V10
Post by: luky_13 on September 07, 2014, 04:34:05 AM
This is one smashing build. The hottest one i have ever seen!

Keep up the good work Keith. Cheers!
Title: Re: 1/3rd scale V10
Post by: keith5700 on September 22, 2014, 04:44:06 PM
A bit more progress. I wanted some bihex bolts for the cam pulleys. I modified some old m5 bolts I've had for years. Not sure I like the end result.
Then I wanted to make the exhaust manifolds. They are from 14 x 1mm wall 316 stainless tube.
I made the mandrel bender a while ago, just for this job.
It certainly beats the Cerrobend method I used on the v8.

It turned out to be harder than I thought, to get the 2 bends in the right place, so I ended up having to do each pipe in two bits.the plan was then to weld them up, but now I have the patterns I might try and copy them in one piece.

I also made the alloy jig this time, which helps. I did the v8 one by eye.

(http://i28.photobucket.com/albums/c201/keith5700/imagejpg3_zpsa2b1dc06.jpg)

(http://i28.photobucket.com/albums/c201/keith5700/imagejpg2_zps72c5744c.jpg[/[IMG]


This is the bearing/seal arrangement for the cam front bearing.



[IMG]http://i28.photobucket.com/albums/c201/keith5700/imagejpg1_zps16059b32.jpg)

V8 looks on nervously...


(http://i28.photobucket.com/albums/c201/keith5700/imagejpg4_zps521a0677.jpg)
Title: Re: 1/3rd scale V10
Post by: keith5700 on September 22, 2014, 04:51:50 PM
Well, half that post just disappeared. I'll try again.
This is the camshaft bearing/seal arrangement...

(http://i28.photobucket.com/albums/c201/keith5700/imagejpg1_zps16059b32.jpg)




(http://i28.photobucket.com/albums/c201/keith5700/imagejpg5_zps71172824.jpg)


(http://i28.photobucket.com/albums/c201/keith5700/imagejpg6_zps58e3b4b2.jpg)


(http://i28.photobucket.com/albums/c201/keith5700/imagejpg8_zps66b08c48.jpg)


(http://i28.photobucket.com/albums/c201/keith5700/imagejpg9_zps1e5ff70b.jpg)


(http://i28.photobucket.com/albums/c201/keith5700/imagejpg7_zps27273b06.jpg)



Title: Re: 1/3rd scale V10
Post by: Roger B on September 22, 2014, 06:01:12 PM
That's some complicated pipework  :praise2:  :praise2:
Title: Re: 1/3rd scale V10
Post by: rockknocker on September 23, 2014, 05:50:09 AM
Amazing work! Methinks you may have done header work before...
Title: Re: 1/3rd scale V10
Post by: Allen Smithee on September 23, 2014, 10:18:33 AM
Awesome, simply awesome.

I've had a chap called Rorsberg on the phone who wants to know if you could apply your skills and attention to detail to the design and construction of a better steering wheel electrical connection setup for his car...

 ;D

AS
Title: Re: 1/3rd scale V10
Post by: sco on September 23, 2014, 10:57:20 AM
Awesome, simply awesome.

I've had a chap called Rorsberg on the phone who wants to know if you could apply your skills and attention to detail to the design and construction of a better steering wheel electrical connection setup for his car...

 ;D

AS

 :censored:
Title: Re: 1/3rd scale V10
Post by: Jo on September 23, 2014, 10:59:29 AM
Yes he had a bit of bad luck but it has made it into a much closer competition for the rest of the season  :whoohoo:

And it is not as if anyone else is in the same class as either of them  8)

Jo
Title: Re: 1/3rd scale V10
Post by: Allen Smithee on September 23, 2014, 11:42:00 AM
Yes, it's re-levelled the field after Lewis' mechanical failures earlier in the season but I would prefer to have seen a mano-a-manno race between them (as would Lewis, by all accounts). I think that Lewis is the better all-round driver, and I think that Nico has realised that (and it hurts!) - he has won more races this year than Nico, and his charge after the safety car went in was just amazing. Reminded me of Mansell or Senna.

AS
Title: Re: 1/3rd scale V10
Post by: sco on September 23, 2014, 12:34:59 PM
Lewis is without doubt the faster of the pair but relies heavily on the engineers for car setup and tuning - we expect Nico to cope better with the ban on radio comms, he's also a much nicer guy to talk to!
Title: Re: 1/3rd scale V10
Post by: Allen Smithee on September 23, 2014, 12:44:55 PM
It will certainly be interesting - Lewis has always made extensive use of his pit crew, but how much he is dependant on them is not clear. Lewis certainly seems to have an almost schuey-like strategic grasp during a race, often better than that of the garage crew who are looking 2-3 laps ahead while Lewis is also considering the whole of the remaining race and even the rest of the season in his tactical decisions (cf the concern over the risk of a second safety car and the comment about "saving the engine" in singapore).

Of course in theory the one who would suffer least from a ban on radio comms would have to be "I know what to do" Raikonnen...

 :Lol:

What's your call on the best of the drivers at the moment? I'm torn between Hamilton and Alonso. I'd really love to see them both in comparable cars again. I suspect Hamilton has the edge, and he certainly looked better than Alonso when they were at Maclaren, but they've both developed and matured considerably since then.

AS
Title: Re: 1/3rd scale V10
Post by: gbritnell on September 23, 2014, 01:02:24 PM
Hi Keith,
Great work on the headers. When I built my V-twin I was confronted with some compound bends so I did as you did and made them in 2 pieces. Rather than weld them I made thin walled stainless sleeves to go over the joint then silver soldered them. By the look of your headers you might have room in your bender to manipulate 2 close bends. It's still a tricky proposition.
Fantastic work as usual.
gbritnell
Title: Re: 1/3rd scale V10
Post by: Stuart on September 23, 2014, 02:20:16 PM
Keith
Great work on the headers


All I will say to you racing hair dryer fans bring back the 3.5 litre V 10 and let's have some proper noise and realiblity.  :stir:

Stuart
Title: Re: 1/3rd scale V10
Post by: Allen Smithee on September 23, 2014, 04:56:03 PM
I will admit that for the first couple of races I missed the high-reving screams (not to mention those of the engines), but it no longer bothers me. It's a very similar sound to the turbo cars of the early 90s (as verified by watching several of the "classic F1 races" they show on the sky F1 channel on weekday evenings.

What is noiticeably different is the extra torque of these hybrids compared to their (comparatively) weedy predecessors, so drivers now have to modulate the throttle out of corners rather than just planting the right foot as soon as the car is pointing vaguely straight - the extra driver skill required is very noticeable and is separating the good from the merely competent (as Vettel is discovering). Many of the drivers have remarked that these cars feel like the most powerful cars they've ever driven because of the shear brute grunt show-up-the-backside acceleration they have. I think reducing the influence of the aero performance has also put the emphasis more on driver skill by increasing the ratio of power to grip - again, this is quite noticable with some drivers.

But most of all I agree with the basic concept of adjusting the formula so that the vast F1 R&D resources are directed towards something which could be of value to society, as they did when F1 created the Euro-NCAP programme. F1 is a hothouse for performance & reliability development, and as these technologies filter out (which is the only reason why companies like Renault, Mercedes and Honda are involved) we have the prospect of the 150mpg family estate ("station wagon" in the colonies) becoming quite likely within the next 10 years, with all the economic and environmental benefits that it would bring.

AS
Title: Re: 1/3rd scale V10
Post by: Jo on September 23, 2014, 05:09:08 PM
Guys as F1 is using turbo charged V6's and keith is building a V10  :naughty: it might be appropriate to take this discussion into chatterbox  ;)

Jo
Title: Re: 1/3rd scale V10
Post by: Ramon on September 23, 2014, 06:42:05 PM
Guys as F1 is using turbo charged V6's and keith is building a V10  :naughty: it might be appropriate to take this discussion into chatterbox  ;)
Jo

Excellent suggestion Jo  ;)

Ramon
Title: Re: 1/3rd scale V10
Post by: Allen Smithee on September 23, 2014, 07:29:10 PM
Apols chaps and chapess - my fault. I'll try not to do it again.

AS
Title: Re: 1/3rd scale V10
Post by: keith5700 on October 01, 2014, 12:50:55 PM
Well I got there in the end. I had to put on a horizontal plate so the degree wheel, for the angle of twist, still read correctly after the tube had been pulled through to set it in position for the second bend.
After a few trials for each tube were done then the final shape was pulled.
then a mirror image tube was bent at the same time, using the figures in reverse.
So, just out of interest, I had 4 figures for each tube.
1st bend angle, distance between bends, twist between bends, and 2nd bend angle.

The 2 pipes on the right were still too tight to do from one piece, so these were joined as per the original pics.

(http://i28.photobucket.com/albums/c201/keith5700/imagejpg1_zps55bde017.jpg)

(http://i28.photobucket.com/albums/c201/keith5700/imagejpg2_zpsbc5cd041.jpg)

(http://i28.photobucket.com/albums/c201/keith5700/imagejpg1_zps97cc71fa.jpg)

(http://i28.photobucket.com/albums/c201/keith5700/imagejpg2_zps89c040f6.jpg)
Title: Re: 1/3rd scale V10
Post by: ozzie46 on October 01, 2014, 02:15:52 PM
 Excellent work on the exhaust. How did you join them without a seam visible on the join?

  Ron
Title: Re: 1/3rd scale V10
Post by: keith5700 on October 01, 2014, 06:28:09 PM
Ron, I mig welded them together, using some 0.6mm stainless wire.
I'm no expert welding thin stainless so it was basically a series of big blobs, followed by hours of filing and sanding. Cheers.
Title: Re: 1/3rd scale V10
Post by: Roger B on October 03, 2014, 05:38:30 PM
I'm no expert welding thin stainless so it was basically a series of big blobs, followed by hours of filing and sanding. Cheers.

I know the feeling  ::)  but the finished job looks excellent  :praise2:
Title: Re: 1/3rd scale V10
Post by: luky_13 on October 04, 2014, 02:06:03 AM
Ron, I mig welded them together, using some 0.6mm stainless wire.
I'm no expert welding thin stainless so it was basically a series of big blobs, followed by hours of filing and sanding. Cheers.

This is almost like Van Gogh with a welding torch and emery sheets instead of a paint brush. Respect  :praise2:
Title: Re: 1/3rd scale V10
Post by: derekwarner on October 04, 2014, 02:40:42 AM
Keith......

1. to say you are an artisan of tube work is an understatement  :facepalm: ....
2. do you use any internal formers?
3. do you anneal the tubing during part any through the bending process?
4. is the tubing AISI 316L or just plain AISI 316?

Derek
Title: Re: 1/3rd scale V10
Post by: Art K on October 04, 2014, 04:17:45 AM
Keith,
I am amazed at the creativity involved in the tube bender, wow. The engine's coming along well. I discovered I was behind about 3-4 pages, had some catching up to do.
Art
Title: Re: 1/3rd scale V10
Post by: ozzie46 on October 04, 2014, 11:48:54 AM
Thanks for the info on the exhaust pipes. My fingers hurt just thinking about all the work on them.

 Ron
Title: Re: 1/3rd scale V10
Post by: keith5700 on October 21, 2014, 12:49:28 PM
Progress report....
I've finished one side and am well on the way to finishing the other side. I want this job out of the way now. Done enough filing to last a lifetime.

Derek, no annealing, yes there is an internal former, or Mandrel, which is just some 12mm round bar on the end of the thread you can see going into the end of the tube, on the bender. Tube is 316L.

Just going to put pics up, they should be self explanatory.....

(http://i28.photobucket.com/albums/c201/keith5700/imagejpg1_zpsf3c4d28a.jpg)

(http://i28.photobucket.com/albums/c201/keith5700/imagejpg3_zps16fb8e5b.jpg)

(http://i28.photobucket.com/albums/c201/keith5700/imagejpg4_zps5f667bdb.jpg)

(http://i28.photobucket.com/albums/c201/keith5700/imagejpg5_zps80c9cdea.jpg)

(http://i28.photobucket.com/albums/c201/keith5700/imagejpg6_zps7f075444.jpg)

(http://i28.photobucket.com/albums/c201/keith5700/imagejpg7_zps1b861153.jpg)

(http://i28.photobucket.com/albums/c201/keith5700/imagejpg8_zpsdbeac7f3.jpg)

(http://i28.photobucket.com/albums/c201/keith5700/imagejpg10_zps7b4b271d.jpg)

(http://i28.photobucket.com/albums/c201/keith5700/imagejpg11_zps09fedc4f.jpg)

(http://i28.photobucket.com/albums/c201/keith5700/imagejpg12_zpsf7052592.jpg)
Title: Re: 1/3rd scale V10
Post by: gbritnell on October 21, 2014, 01:03:47 PM
Keith,
What else can I say? Outstanding work! Don't get burned out. Take a leave when needed and come back when the juices are flowing.
gbritnell
Title: Re: 1/3rd scale V10
Post by: Tennessee Whiskey on October 21, 2014, 08:44:17 PM
That's ud dab boo frofro miti uoooo tah. I'm just babbling cause there's no real words for it. Just freaking beautiful :ThumbsUp:  :ThumbsUp:

E
Title: Re: 1/3rd scale V10
Post by: Ramon on October 21, 2014, 09:16:22 PM
Awesome work, awesome approach - amazing outcome  :praise2:,

Congratulations on such a fantastically rewarded effort. Gawd I bet your chuffed.  :ThumbsUp: :ThumbsUp:

Ramon

Title: Re: 1/3rd scale V10
Post by: a59effie on December 08, 2014, 04:27:05 PM
any updates love your work it is art
Title: Re: 1/3rd scale V10
Post by: keith5700 on December 09, 2014, 12:55:05 PM
Yes it is time for an update.
I finished off the 2nd set of headers......

(http://i28.photobucket.com/albums/c201/keith5700/047_zps41ae39d2.jpg)

(http://i28.photobucket.com/albums/c201/keith5700/048_zps9fcabf98.jpg)

(http://i28.photobucket.com/albums/c201/keith5700/049_zps8792e1dd.jpg)

then i wanted to make some pretty things as I was starting to get bored, so I decided to finalise all the belt runs.
The supercharger will be driven from a shaft going along the side of the block, so I made the pulleys and clamps etc. for this..

(http://i28.photobucket.com/albums/c201/keith5700/051_zps00d0df0c.jpg)

This is just the belt tension pulley arm.

(http://i28.photobucket.com/albums/c201/keith5700/052_zps3bc7ea12.jpg)

this is how it comes off the miller...

(http://i28.photobucket.com/albums/c201/keith5700/053_zps977e77d4.jpg)

and this is after 2 hours of filing and polishing, and then a quick anodise..

(http://i28.photobucket.com/albums/c201/keith5700/054_zps4c42700d.jpg)
Title: Re: 1/3rd scale V10
Post by: keith5700 on December 09, 2014, 01:02:17 PM
So this is where I'm up to as of last night.
The mechanism for the variable valve timing isn't going too well.
I want the 2 idler pulleys on each belt to keep the tension the same, as the idler is pushed into the belt, but although the CAD says it should work, it doesn't in practice, so I'm doing a bit of trial and error with different pulley centres and pulley diameters.

(http://i28.photobucket.com/albums/c201/keith5700/IMG_0039_zpsd1d333d1.jpg)

(http://i28.photobucket.com/albums/c201/keith5700/IMG_0040_zpsac643c71.jpg)

(http://i28.photobucket.com/albums/c201/keith5700/IMG_0042_zps810d349b.jpg)
Title: Re: 1/3rd scale V10
Post by: strictlybusiness1 on December 09, 2014, 02:35:32 PM
Keith,

Your apparent dedication to perfection in producing each piece, while working with manual machines, should not be ignored or minimized! This is a dying art form! I take my hat off to you for your efforts! :praise2: :praise2:

Jim Allen, ME., Tool Maker
Title: Re: 1/3rd scale V10
Post by: metalmad on December 14, 2014, 02:09:56 PM
Simply Awesome Keith :ThumbsUp: :praise2:
Pete
Title: Re: 1/3rd scale V10
Post by: Nicolas on December 14, 2014, 02:23:49 PM
Just caught up with this thread, I'm amazed :o

Incredible work, I'm already looking forward to the next update :)
Title: Re: 1/3rd scale V10
Post by: Coopertje on December 14, 2014, 02:54:50 PM
Very nice work Keith, your finishing and detail are almost unreal  :NotWorthy:

Looking forward to the next update.

Regards Jeroen
Title: Re: 1/3rd scale V10
Post by: keith5700 on January 14, 2015, 09:27:19 PM
Thanks chaps.
Managed some work over Xmas.
I mainly wanted to make the inserts for the cam covers as these were going to be slightly tricky.
It took 4 full days to make them, then I realised on one side I'd put the plug holes in 1mm out, so this took another day to sort out.
I managed to offset the o ring holes 0.5mm on the cover, and offset turn the spark plug tubes by 0.5mm.
This should make sense from the pics.

(http://i28.photobucket.com/albums/c201/keith5700/IMG_0043_zpscaee01c7.jpg)


(http://i28.photobucket.com/albums/c201/keith5700/014_zps6f0e6db3.jpg)


(http://i28.photobucket.com/albums/c201/keith5700/010_zps8612e3e9.jpg)

(http://i28.photobucket.com/albums/c201/keith5700/013_zps28277b94.jpg)



(http://i28.photobucket.com/albums/c201/keith5700/018_zps8672390d.jpg)

(http://i28.photobucket.com/albums/c201/keith5700/015_zpsfe15657b.jpg)


Title: Re: 1/3rd scale V10
Post by: KB on January 14, 2015, 09:32:04 PM

Amazing craftsmanship Keith.
I look forward to each update. Thanks.
Title: Re: 1/3rd scale V10
Post by: keith5700 on January 14, 2015, 09:36:50 PM
I also sorted out the cam belt tensioners.
I wanted a nice smooth spring system as there will be a lot of slack to take up when the variable timing pulleys operate.
I went for lever arms with a spring loaded piston in the front of the head. The levers pick up the piston through a slot in the head. I'll get some close ups later, I forgot when I assembled it.

(http://i28.photobucket.com/albums/c201/keith5700/003_zps904c021d.jpg)


(http://i28.photobucket.com/albums/c201/keith5700/004_zps2b37af60.jpg)

(http://i28.photobucket.com/albums/c201/keith5700/005_zps1ecc281c.jpg)

(http://i28.photobucket.com/albums/c201/keith5700/017_zps1f2bf317.jpg)
Title: Re: 1/3rd scale V10
Post by: Greg Haisley on January 14, 2015, 10:04:14 PM
Awesome craftsmanship !!! Keith I wish you lived in the states, I'd hire you in a New York second.
Title: Re: 1/3rd scale V10
Post by: zeeprogrammer on January 15, 2015, 12:23:35 AM
Awesome craftsmanship !!! Keith I wish you lived in the states, I'd hire you in a New York second.

Was cruising through and got stopped here. Wow!!! I mean wow!!!
Read the entire thread...I see I popped in last March...so it was great to catch up.

It's obvious you're not in the states...but I haven't figured out where you are.
Title: Re: 1/3rd scale V10
Post by: 90LX_Notch on January 15, 2015, 03:14:58 AM
Keith-

Your attention to detail and your finishing techniques really set your engines apart. They are true works of art.

-Bob
Title: Re: 1/3rd scale V10
Post by: keith5700 on February 09, 2015, 12:59:26 PM
Not much to report on the V10 front.
I've had the V8 on youtube for over a year now, but there has been a growing group of commentors who don't believe it is a running engine.
I've been accused of all sorts of things, liar, cheat, fraud etc.
So I finally got round to doing another video which should put it all to rest.
There's some funny exhaust smoking going on, ie. only smoking on one side, so that needs a look at.
We did some V10 stuff at the same time so it may be of interest to someone.
Cheers.

RUv1hv7g7WA
Title: Re: 1/3rd scale V10
Post by: /// on February 09, 2015, 01:49:03 PM
Keith, are these comments at youtube?
Ignore them, there's no shortage of idiots with only half a braincell on there :(
It wouldn't surprise me if some of the comments are from people that are fully aware it's real, but they just get their kicks out of creating a stir... youtube seems to be the biggest troll magnet.
I'm seeing more and more video's there where commenting has been disabled, smart move I reckon.

Anyway, on a lighter note, I've really been looking forward to a new installment(longtime lurker)
I love your work and I'm learning a hell of a lot from your posts.
Cheers!
Title: Re: 1/3rd scale V10
Post by: vcutajar on February 09, 2015, 02:29:04 PM
Amazing video Keith.  I would not worry too much on what is said on utube.

Vince
Title: Re: 1/3rd scale V10
Post by: stevehuckss396 on February 09, 2015, 04:57:53 PM
I have been accused of all of the same things. I had a guy at a model show feeling around the display base trying to find the speaker. Now my pal louis does it to me every show. Its ok though because I do it to him too. Its kind of the inside joke With the engine guys in my metal club.

Just disable comments on youtube. WE KNOW BETTER!
Title: Re: 1/3rd scale V10
Post by: mikemill on February 09, 2015, 05:35:39 PM
Keith

You do not need to justify yourself, your craftsmanship speaks for itself, any fool who mutters adverse comments are not worth recognition.
Keep up the good work

Mike
Title: Re: 1/3rd scale V10
Post by: fumopuc on February 09, 2015, 07:01:20 PM
Hi Keith, as Steve already mentioned,  We know better. Ignore the rest.
Title: Re: 1/3rd scale V10
Post by: Greg Haisley on February 09, 2015, 09:36:45 PM
Keith

You do not need to justify yourself, your craftsmanship speaks for itself, any fool who mutters adverse comments are not worth recognition.
Keep up the good work

Mike

I second that! The world is full of lazy critics that don't know anything. Keep up the excellent work.
Title: Re: 1/3rd scale V10
Post by: 90LX_Notch on February 09, 2015, 10:03:05 PM
Keith-

Don't fret over the YouTube nay-sayers.   We, your peers, as stated above, know what you have accomplished.  Your work is in the upper echelon of the hobby.  You have have nothing to prove.  The critics would more than likely find constructing a paper airplane a difficult task.

-Bob
Title: Re: 1/3rd scale V10
Post by: Allen Smithee on February 09, 2015, 10:07:16 PM
(http://imgs.xkcd.com/comics/youtube.png)

AS
Title: Re: 1/3rd scale V10
Post by: Allen Smithee on February 09, 2015, 10:09:51 PM
Never EVER try to reason with these idiots.

That way madness lies...

(http://imgs.xkcd.com/comics/duty_calls.png)

AS
Title: Re: 1/3rd scale V10
Post by: Artie on February 10, 2015, 01:18:26 AM
Wow! just...... WOW!

Ive replied to a couple of idiots on you channel Keith, I suspect the message isnt getting through.... I would no longer waste your time when you could be spending it cutting more metal!

Amazing...and again...WOW!
Title: Re: 1/3rd scale V10
Post by: Ian S C on February 10, 2015, 11:30:20 AM
I often find it interesting listening to people talking about my Stirling Engines, sometimes saying "he should have done this, or that", I then come foreward, and introduce myself, and ask them how many engines they have built(usually none, nor any other engineering work), I then ask if they know how the engine works, and get quite a few different answers.  They then get the correct story.  There are quite a few that know a good bit more than I do in the Canterbury area of NZ, some have studied these engines at Canterbury University, others worked on the Whisper Gen.
Ian S C
Title: Re: 1/3rd scale V10
Post by: JMcRae on February 10, 2015, 05:52:33 PM
I wouldn't worry about people on youtube, your work speaks for it's self. They have nothing better to do.
Keep up the awesome work, I can't wait to see the V10 run!
Title: Re: 1/3rd scale V10
Post by: Jimsmodels on February 11, 2015, 09:16:55 PM
Keith
I have been following this from the beginning, Wow! you are a real craftsman. Don't pay any mind to those idiots. Here's a good one. I once had a guy a
Steam and Power show I was showing my model engine's at, claim my engine's weren't running on there own. So I asked him to grab a hold of the spark plug on one of my running hit miss models if he didn't think it was running on it's own. He wouldn't do it but still claimed I had a electric motor
hooked up somewhere. I finally had enough of him and just asked him politely to go away.
Anyway great work.
Jim G
Title: Re: 1/3rd scale V10
Post by: Jayykt on February 14, 2015, 08:28:22 AM
Mr. keith i recommend you watch these videos  you'll be amazed
zhMEJbUDD3g1fLGKb9J9i4i_EbWY0nIKw

check it out guys
Title: Re: 1/3rd scale V10
Post by: Brendon M on February 17, 2015, 06:49:28 AM
Are there such things as commercial turbochargers for model engines?  8)

My main concern about building a turbo would be that the compressor or turbine would self destruct.
Title: Re: 1/3rd scale V10
Post by: steamer on February 17, 2015, 11:01:45 AM
Thanks for posting that Jayykt!    Appreciate it!

Feel free to start another thread on the subject! While your at it, a short post in the introduction section would be keeping with the forum rules

Welcome to MEM!   ;D

Dave
Title: Re: 1/3rd scale V10
Post by: Jayykt on February 17, 2015, 05:33:23 PM
Brendonm-Apparently this guy fabricated his turbo from aluminum iirc but I would use titanium for something that would be subjected to such high stress levels

Steamer-No problem just wanted to share that because a lot of people doubt the possibility of a small scale turbocharger so I thought I'd give them something to think about and thank you for the welcome
Title: Re: 1/3rd scale V10
Post by: keith5700 on February 18, 2015, 07:54:06 AM
Jayykt, the turbo looks interesting and its exactly the sort of thing I had in mind when I started the V10.
It has become clear however that at the size I wanted them to be, they wouldn't work very well, ie. produce any useful boost.
I can't find much else about that heli turbo, but can only assume it's just for show.
Cheers.
Title: Re: 1/3rd scale V10
Post by: Brendon M on February 18, 2015, 12:51:25 PM
Your V10 will displace around 125cc, if I remember correctly. Being multi-cylinder, will that be able to drive a really small turbocharger intended for motorbikes? (as if you a mounting a big single for a full-sized engine)

http://www.cbr250.net/forum/honda-cbr250-general-discussion/8213-turbo.html

Hitachi HT06, fits in your hand
https://www.google.com.au/search?q=hitachi+ht06+turbo&source=lnms&tbm=isch&sa=X&ei=6YnkVJWnDsa2mwWkhoKQAg&ved=0CAgQ_AUoAQ&biw=1596&bih=781

Yamaha Turbo
http://www.realhomemadeturbo.com/forum/index.php?topic=1661.0
Title: Re: 1/3rd scale V10
Post by: keith5700 on February 18, 2015, 04:19:10 PM
Hi, yes 125cc, I reckon I could have done something with that, but unfortunately I like things to be symmetrical, which means 2 turbos, so its only 62cc per turbo, which isn't really enough it seems.
I'm too far down the line with the supercharger now anyway, but turbos was my first choice.
Title: Re: 1/3rd scale V10
Post by: MrDude_1 on March 25, 2015, 01:31:46 PM
Hi, yes 125cc, I reckon I could have done something with that, but unfortunately I like things to be symmetrical, which means 2 turbos, so its only 62cc per turbo, which isn't really enough it seems.
I'm too far down the line with the supercharger now anyway, but turbos was my first choice.

Actually, we put turbos on 50cc minibikes... so you COULD use the same commercial turbos on your 62cc per side.  There is a slight amount of turbo lag, but since you're not running this around a racetrack, I dont think that would be a big issue.
I think the biggest issue is they wont look as amazing as the rest of your engine... they're ugly cast things, with the only machine work done on surfaces you cant see from outside.
Title: Re: 1/3rd scale V10
Post by: mike mott on March 26, 2015, 04:32:24 PM
Keith I am enjoying your engine build and since I also do all my work manually I am particularly impressed by your workmanship and finishing skills.

Mike
Title: Re: 1/3rd scale V10
Post by: keith5700 on March 30, 2015, 12:44:46 PM
Right, progress report:-

I decided to try some G. Britnell style profile milling, just to pretty things up. Took absolutely ages to do both sides of the crankcase.

(http://i28.photobucket.com/albums/c201/keith5700/image.jpg1_zpswqsnxjps.jpg)

(http://i28.photobucket.com/albums/c201/keith5700/image.jpg3_zpsrcxpkhdb.jpg)

(http://i28.photobucket.com/albums/c201/keith5700/image.jpg2_zpsyofll3xl.jpg)

(http://i28.photobucket.com/albums/c201/keith5700/image.jpg10_zpsagldczat.jpg)
Title: Re: 1/3rd scale V10
Post by: keith5700 on March 30, 2015, 01:01:46 PM
Had a go at the driveshaft for the supercharger. The drive needs to be at the rear of the engine, and up to the s/c with another belt.
The supercharger will be built in to the rear of the intake plenum.

The s/c needs a 2.6:1 speed increase over engine rpm, according to my crude calcs. I was a bit concerned about the strain on the drive system when revving the engine up fast, due to the inertia of the s/c rotors and gears, so I have put a slipping clutch into the rear timing pulley. The clutch discs are ptfe.

I wanted the preload on the clutch pack to be via a Bellville conical washer, but couldn't find anywhere to buy less than 25's worth min. order, so I decided to make one.

I used some nice spring steel strip, which are actually Almen strips we use at work to measure shot peening intensity.
These were softened, drilled, turned, pressed into a cone, hardened back up, and then tempered a bit from light straw colour.
It works fine.
(http://i28.photobucket.com/albums/c201/keith5700/image.jpg3_zpsduelqmrz.jpg)

(http://i28.photobucket.com/albums/c201/keith5700/image.jpg4_zpsfdeqohhw.jpg)

(http://i28.photobucket.com/albums/c201/keith5700/image.jpg6_zpsdzwquqga.jpg)

(http://i28.photobucket.com/albums/c201/keith5700/image.jpg7_zpsxzduqk8q.jpg)

(http://i28.photobucket.com/albums/c201/keith5700/image.jpg1_zpseqxeoqci.jpg)

(http://i28.photobucket.com/albums/c201/keith5700/image.jpg5_zpsfdm5htbf.jpg)

(http://i28.photobucket.com/albums/c201/keith5700/image.jpg7_zpsiqtbjgii.jpg)

(http://i28.photobucket.com/albums/c201/keith5700/image.jpg9_zpsyruyjtgd.jpg)
Title: Re: 1/3rd scale V10
Post by: ozzie46 on March 30, 2015, 01:12:10 PM
No words,just  :pinkelephant: :pinkelephant: :pinkelephant:

 Ron
Title: Re: 1/3rd scale V10
Post by: DavidF on March 30, 2015, 03:02:43 PM
Keith, Thats looking great!!  How long until you give the plans away to the chineese??  :lolb:
<---Mr sarcasm
Title: Re: 1/3rd scale V10
Post by: Art K on March 30, 2015, 05:50:27 PM
Keith,
I must say like everyone else that I am amazed by your creativity and craftsmanship, wow.
Art
Title: Re: 1/3rd scale V10
Post by: Tennessee Whiskey on March 30, 2015, 06:51:27 PM
First of all,  great work.  Secondly,  you mentioned shot peening,  is that the way you are reproducing the cast effects?  IMHO guys like you and Britnell are just in a totally different world,  one that I admire greatly  :ThumbsUp: :ThumbsUp:

Cletus
Title: Re: 1/3rd scale V10
Post by: keith5700 on March 30, 2015, 10:37:58 PM
Thanks for positive replies, it urges me on to get better all the time.

Cletus, we have all sorts of surface treatments available at work, but most could also be done at home.
The lugs on the crankcase have been shot peened with 110 size steel shot. This will be the final finish for the large components as they are too big to get in my anodising bucket.

The supercharger bearing brackets have been peened with ceramic beads and then anodised and dunked into the black dye tank for about 10 seconds, and then heat sealed. This gives a nice blue tint.
The danger with anodising is its too easy to get carried away with all the colours and end up with a Xmas tree decoration. I'm trying to stick with shades of black and gold only on this engine.

David, i think I'll pass on that one, but it would be interesting to see how much they could make it for?
Cheers.

Title: Re: 1/3rd scale V10
Post by: billmac on March 31, 2015, 04:45:11 PM
I think your concern about the supercharger drive is well justified. The slipping clutch is a good precaution, but there may be a limited window between slipping and delivering the normal running torque required at higher revs. There are other methods of easing problems with supercharger drives that you have probably already considered; one is to use a long drive shaft with a small diameter, but well supported. This allows for a small degree of torsional wind-up which reduces snatch loading on fast rev changes. Another is to use a sprag clutch so that the supercharger is free to rotate in the reverse direction. This insulates it from snatch loads in the throttle snap shut situation.

The other concern with the drive is what happens in the event of a backfire of course.

There was quite a lot of research on supercharger drives for (full sized!) aircraft engine development.

Title: Re: 1/3rd scale V10
Post by: billmac on March 31, 2015, 04:53:09 PM
Another random thought on the supercharger drive which I forgot in my last message. Some engines suffer from torsional vibration problems because of their overall layout and the crankshaft length (long straight sixes for example). Firing order has an influence here of course. The torsional vibration can be started because the rotation of the crankshaft is not really uniform and torque is applied at points a long way down the crankshaft. This effect can be magnified through a shaft supercharger drive and become an added nuisance. Some carefully designed compliance in the drive can help. Some work on the layout of your V10 might predict whether this will be the case, but the fact that it is a small engine should limit the risk.
Title: Re: 1/3rd scale V10
Post by: keith5700 on April 14, 2015, 01:06:07 PM
Billmac, I think the clutch should be fine for this purpose. In my head I can see the difference in high speed running torque and acceleration torque to be a factor of 2 or 3 different, so hopefully there won't be any clutch slip during steady running.

I got bored with making sparkplugs, using my recently aquired Macor, (thanks again Ramon), so I decided to make a test rotor for the supercharger. The proper rotors will be 90mm long, but I just did a trial piece and cut it in half to try the mesh.
The centre distance is dictated by the already existing helical gears.

(http://i28.photobucket.com/albums/c201/keith5700/image.jpg4_zpswk4agjr8.jpg)

(http://i28.photobucket.com/albums/c201/keith5700/image.jpg5_zpscudti7rv.jpg)

(http://i28.photobucket.com/albums/c201/keith5700/image.jpg6_zpsx0jff407.jpg)

(http://i28.photobucket.com/albums/c201/keith5700/image.jpg9_zps23jzjsk9.jpg)

(http://i28.photobucket.com/albums/c201/keith5700/image.jpg7_zpsfvb9dmui.jpg)

(http://i28.photobucket.com/albums/c201/keith5700/image.jpg8_zpsjxo0vsjo.jpg)

Title: Re: 1/3rd scale V10
Post by: keith5700 on April 14, 2015, 01:17:33 PM
Then I got bored with that and had a go at the flywheel.
I cut the centre out of a purchased gear, and heat shrunk it on the flywheel.
Then cut the scallops for the crank sensor. 24 minus 1 worked fine on the V8 so I went for 30 - 1 on this one.
Finally I got the key slots cut, and drilled the flywheel for a future clutch plate.
I quite fancy a double or triple plate clutch setup. Totally useless, but would look great!

(http://i28.photobucket.com/albums/c201/keith5700/image.jpg10_zpsoafhimim.jpg)

(http://i28.photobucket.com/albums/c201/keith5700/image.jpg11_zpssajtzm2d.jpg)

(http://i28.photobucket.com/albums/c201/keith5700/image.jpg12_zpstcudxrco.jpg)

(http://i28.photobucket.com/albums/c201/keith5700/image.jpg13_zps71x8kvys.jpg)

(http://i28.photobucket.com/albums/c201/keith5700/image.jpg14_zpsoslmnenp.jpg)

Random pic of the front, minus cover plate.......

(http://i28.photobucket.com/albums/c201/keith5700/image.jpg15_zpsx8dgyvss.jpg)

Then I thought I'd better get back to the plugs, but couldn't seem to drill a 1.2mm hole concentric through the Macor. This bit is about 1/2" long, but the hole is already way off. This is with brand new Dormer drills.
I'm going to try a carbide drill from both ends, and if that doesn't work I'll try and spin the drill and the part as well.

(http://i28.photobucket.com/albums/c201/keith5700/image.jpg16_zpsnchwbsz9.jpg)


Title: Re: 1/3rd scale V10
Post by: ZAK. on April 14, 2015, 03:11:15 PM
That is first class engineering,  :) I would like to hear that running on completion.
Title: Re: 1/3rd scale V10
Post by: gbritnell on April 14, 2015, 03:12:59 PM
Hi Keith,
I'm not familiar with Macor but have used Teflon and Corian with no trouble. Maybe it's just the flutes loading up with the material and pushing the drill sideways.
gbritnell
Title: Re: 1/3rd scale V10
Post by: fumopuc on April 14, 2015, 08:53:39 PM
Finally I got the key slots cut, and drilled the flywheel for a future clutch plate.
I quite fancy a double or triple plate clutch setup. Totally useless, but would look great!

Hi Keith, this engine needs a down scaled copy of a seven  disc AP carbon clutch.
It should be possible to make it with water jet cutting from some thin cheap carbon plates.
Your engine and work is brilliant.
Title: Re: 1/3rd scale V10
Post by: Allen Smithee on April 14, 2015, 09:12:46 PM
Those clutch plates are made from carbon-ceramic rather than CFRP aren't they?

But of course it also cries out for a kevlar-cased F1 gearbox complete with KERS...

Awesome, Keith. Just awesome (as ever).

AS
Title: Re: 1/3rd scale V10
Post by: sco on April 14, 2015, 09:19:04 PM
No the clutch plates are carbon similar to the brake discs and there is no kevlar used in the casing either.

This model is exquisite in every detail though :-)

Simon.
Title: Re: 1/3rd scale V10
Post by: keith5700 on April 14, 2015, 10:15:02 PM
Hello George, I can't figure out why the drill is wandering. I've never really thought about it before, but you'd think if say a drill was ground sharp on one flute and deliberately blunt on the other, then it would cut oversize, but still stay concentric, as the part is rotating the error evenly around all the time.
Trouble is the Macor is a bit too valuable to do much testing, so I'll try the carbide drills next.

I've just had a look at multi plate clutches, again I've never took much notice up till now. It looks do-able although the splines look a bit tricky. Maybe the best thing would be to find something already splined, like a car steering knuckle joint, and base the design around that.
There's some nice gold anodising on those AP clutches though, so it's going to have to be done.
Title: Re: 1/3rd scale V10
Post by: keith5700 on April 26, 2015, 02:07:52 PM
I've been doing something else which isn't really required, for the past couple of weeks.
Since early on when I decided to include the supercharger, I've wanted to make the rotors helical, rather than straight cut.
I'm a bit out of sequence on a logical build program, but I decided to have a go at them. Basically I had to get the dividing head to turn with the x axis of the Miller, so I made a bevel box and chain and gear parts to make this happen. It was a bit awkward at times as the dividing head still has to work as it should so I can index between the 3 lobes.
The gears are there So I can reverse the helix for one of the rotors.
I did a quick test cut and it seems to work ok. Just need some ally now to make the rotors from. Be a few days now as I'm all out of materials pretty much.

(http://i28.photobucket.com/albums/c201/keith5700/image.jpg1_zpsvgwt2leb.jpg)

(http://i28.photobucket.com/albums/c201/keith5700/image.jpg2_zpsdbgozghl.jpg)

(http://i28.photobucket.com/albums/c201/keith5700/image.jpg3_zpsen3lrlhw.jpg)

(http://i28.photobucket.com/albums/c201/keith5700/image.jpg4_zpsyaucfx53.jpg)
Title: Re: 1/3rd scale V10
Post by: DavidF on April 26, 2015, 02:29:00 PM
Cool set up!  Cant wait to see the finished rotors  :ThumbsUp: :ThumbsUp:
Title: Re: 1/3rd scale V10
Post by: Greg Haisley on April 27, 2015, 04:22:06 PM
I have done this on a Cincinnati horizontal mill, but never on a bridgeport mill. Very cleaver!

Twisted rotors are more optimal than straight IMHO. Single point of contact like the GM style roots blower.
I'm guessing you will use the shim method for setting the clearance of the rotors via the angled helical gears.

Again very cleaver ~ keep up the great work.
Title: Re: 1/3rd scale V10
Post by: Roger B on April 27, 2015, 07:07:24 PM
That's a very neat setup for spiral milling  :praise2:  :praise2: Still following with interest  :ThumbsUp: :ThumbsUp:
Title: Re: 1/3rd scale V10
Post by: keith5700 on May 03, 2015, 01:31:59 PM
Well I managed the first one. Needs a lot of concentration to not lose where you are. Was listening to the football at the time and kept going wrong.

(http://i28.photobucket.com/albums/c201/keith5700/image.jpg1_zpsgyrkpzpr.jpg)


(http://i28.photobucket.com/albums/c201/keith5700/image.jpg2_zps9m5m7z76.jpg)
Title: Re: 1/3rd scale V10
Post by: fumopuc on May 03, 2015, 02:51:30 PM
WOW.
Title: Re: 1/3rd scale V10
Post by: Roger B on May 03, 2015, 07:34:58 PM
That's some serious machining  :praise2:  :praise2:
Title: Re: 1/3rd scale V10
Post by: billmac on May 05, 2015, 12:07:49 PM
Keith -

I think you have raised the bar out of site with that setup.

I am still trying to work out how you have achieved the correct form of the rotor teeth. I am guessing that you spiral milled out the centre, then adjusted the depth of cut and Y position in steps, each time spiral milling the length of the rotor. Eventually, the ball nose cutter would cut the complete shape of one side of the tooth space. You then repeat that for the other side of the tooth space. You then index around 120 degrees and repeat the whole process. I am guessing that you needed about 12 cuts for each side of the tooth space, 24 for a complete space, a total of 72 passes. Is that about right?

If so it is one of those jobs that you have to complete in one sitting using a chart, absolute total concentration and no interruptions. I am in awe of what you have achieved. Thanks for showing us.

Title: Re: 1/3rd scale V10
Post by: keith5700 on May 05, 2015, 10:14:16 PM
Yes, spot on. 93 cuts in total though. My dividing head is 9 degrees per turn of the handle, so that was the angle between cuts. I've just cut the second one tonight, that went really quick. Need to turn the telly off, and get into a routine. 3 hours for the second one. Don't want to make another ever though!
Title: Re: 1/3rd scale V10
Post by: billmac on May 05, 2015, 10:52:17 PM
Keith -

"My dividing head is 9 degrees per turn of the handle, so that was the angle between cuts. "

Ah yes, I should have thought about that. I can well understand your reluctance to repeat the job. Superb work.

Title: Re: 1/3rd scale V10
Post by: keith5700 on May 12, 2015, 07:54:27 AM
Moving forward, the first step was to check the centre distance of the drive gears. theoretically it should be 22.05mm. It showed that anywhere between 22 and 22.1 would work ok.
I decided to get the rotors to mesh at 22mm centres and then run them at 22.04 centres, so hopefully they wont touch.

(http://i28.photobucket.com/albums/c201/keith5700/image.jpg2_zpsybzza3q1.jpg)

I put the end holes in after the rotors were done, so I knew the holes were concentric.

(http://i28.photobucket.com/albums/c201/keith5700/image.jpg1_zpsbwbn9lmp.jpg)

I ended up lapping them together with grinding paste.

(http://i28.photobucket.com/albums/c201/keith5700/image.jpg3_zps9tqp2t3z.jpg)

(http://i28.photobucket.com/albums/c201/keith5700/image.jpg4_zpsh38tcoiw.jpg)

(http://i28.photobucket.com/albums/c201/keith5700/image.jpg5_zpsre99rojh.jpg)

(http://i28.photobucket.com/albums/c201/keith5700/image.jpg7_zps5w2qqoe6.jpg)
Title: Re: 1/3rd scale V10
Post by: Roger B on May 12, 2015, 09:30:22 AM
What can I say but 'WOW' ?  :praise2:  :praise2:
Title: Re: 1/3rd scale V10
Post by: Greg Haisley on May 12, 2015, 12:58:54 PM
  Beautiful craftsmanship and anodizing Keith!!! 

 
Title: Re: 1/3rd scale V10
Post by: cfellows on May 12, 2015, 02:27:21 PM
Wow, would never have guessed something like that could be done in the home shop.  Nice work!

Chuck
Title: Re: 1/3rd scale V10
Post by: KB on May 12, 2015, 03:48:24 PM

That was certainly worth all of the effort put into that superb set-up. Outstanding!
Title: Re: 1/3rd scale V10
Post by: fumopuc on May 12, 2015, 08:03:23 PM
Speechless but still following along.
Title: Re: 1/3rd scale V10
Post by: mike mott on May 12, 2015, 08:21:29 PM
Amazing piece of work, also the set up to get there.

mike
Title: Re: 1/3rd scale V10
Post by: DavidF on May 13, 2015, 03:11:01 PM
How did you model the rotors? Ive been trying to figure out a set myself. 2 lobes is pretty easy, but 3 lobed has been another story.
Title: Re: 1/3rd scale V10
Post by: keith5700 on May 13, 2015, 09:16:37 PM
Thanks again chaps. David, I googled 'supercharger rotor' and clicked images, and about 15 rows down, on the iPad, there was a drawing of a 3 lobed rotor. I drew this on autocad and then scaled it up to my size.its only 2d cad, so I meshed 2 rotors together and then spun them at 10 degree intervals to check the fit.
They were almost bang on, but I altered the profiles slightly to get them perfect and then made the machining drawings.
I milled the whole profile with a 10mm ball nosed cutter, in 9 degree intervals. I can let you have my drawings if they are any use, although I would rather wait until I spin them up and see if they produce any pressure first. I should know in a week or so.

Best wishes Chuck.
Title: Re: 1/3rd scale V10
Post by: Don1966 on May 13, 2015, 10:28:17 PM
Very impressive work Keith, that looks amazing.........I like.................. :praise2: :praise2:


Don
Title: Re: 1/3rd scale V10
Post by: Steve76 on June 26, 2015, 07:20:53 AM
Hi, is there any recent news on your incredible V10 project? you're doing something I can only dream about doing and I can't wait to see and hear it running.

Hope its going well,

Cheers
Steve de Adman
(wannabe model engine builder)
Title: Re: 1/3rd scale V10
Post by: keith5700 on July 24, 2015, 01:23:14 PM
Well, I'm still here. Seems I'm not much of a poster, or photographer, but I have a few pics to bring me up to date.

I made the housing for the supercharger rotors, and the gearbox housing, and then ran the rotors together with the helical gears fitted.
there was loads of interference with the rotors, so I just ran it for a bit and then removed the contact spots, and then ran it again.
This time it contacted somewhere else, so I removed those points.

Anyway, I went through this rigmarole about 12 times and they were still catching. It turns out that even though I'd closed the theoretical centrelines of the gears up a couple of thou' there was still too much backlash between the gears to keep the rotors where they should be.
there is about 4 thou' movement at the rotor tips. This needs to be 1 thou' at a guess. I ordered some gears with slightly longer centerline and I'm going to mesh them together with grinding paste, to get almost zero backlash at the centres I'm now stuck with.

Sorry for brief explanations, I don't get long for lunch here.

Pics will have to be self explanatory for the time being:-

(http://i28.photobucket.com/albums/c201/keith5700/image.jpg2_zpsjpuiheap.jpg)

(http://i28.photobucket.com/albums/c201/keith5700/image.jpg1_zps4okqtwrq.jpg)

(http://i28.photobucket.com/albums/c201/keith5700/image.jpg2_zpsmy9s9j7r.jpg)

(http://i28.photobucket.com/albums/c201/keith5700/image.jpg5_zpspuaki2k5.jpg)

(http://i28.photobucket.com/albums/c201/keith5700/image.jpg6_zpsrgihhpty.jpg)

(http://i28.photobucket.com/albums/c201/keith5700/image.jpg4_zpsgplgmz8f.jpg)

(http://i28.photobucket.com/albums/c201/keith5700/image.jpg8_zpsouzzbxuy.jpg)

(http://i28.photobucket.com/albums/c201/keith5700/image.jpg10_zpshm9vs1fn.jpg)
(http://i28.photobucket.com/albums/c201/keith5700/image.jpg11_zpsgqtde6bt.jpg)

(http://i28.photobucket.com/albums/c201/keith5700/image.jpg12_zpskxwwdj2u.jpg)
Title: Re: 1/3rd scale V10
Post by: Roger B on July 24, 2015, 03:10:30 PM
Magnificent as ever  :praise2:  :praise2: Still following and learning  :ThumbsUp:  :wine1:
Title: Re: 1/3rd scale V10
Post by: BillTodd on July 24, 2015, 03:19:01 PM
Fan- bloody -tastic :-)
Title: Re: 1/3rd scale V10
Post by: Vixen on July 24, 2015, 03:40:53 PM
Hello Keith

I have the same problem with the supercharger rotors for the 1:3 scale Mercedes W165 engine I am building. I have started a build log but that is running about 1 year behind actual progress.

My rotors are much simpler than yours. I have two lobe rotors, straight and without the twist. The W165 has a two stage supercharger (I prefer the German word: Kompressor) which requires two different rotor sets; a short, high pressure and a longer low pressure rotor. Both have identical cross sections, only the length is different.

As you have discovered, it is the backlash in the synchronising gears which causes all the trouble and allows the flanks of the rotors to touch. Idealy the rotor clearance needs to be within a few thou to prevent pressure leakage. In the home workshop we are never likely to make make our synchronising gears to that sort of precision without specialist gear honing equipment.

When I assembled my rotors, I found they touched in several places. They would rotate, but they touched. All the high spots were hand scraped and more would appear in different places when the rotors were reassembled. So pull them apart, remove the high spots, reassemble and repeat the process indefinitely. Contact was occurring on both the leading and trailing faces of the rotors and was entirely due to the backlash in the synchronising gears. It also became abundantly clear that each rotor and each gear and even each woodruff key had to be kept together as matched sets, otherwise you start all over again.

In the end I decided it was much more sensible to have generous clearance between the rotors which would also allow for some wear in the gears as they bedded in. Besides did I really want 39 psi boost pressure on model engine running on the bench? So what, if the Kompressors leak and do not make maximum pressure, it is far more important that they continue to rotate reliably. If nothing else, they will act as blenders to keep the fuel and air well mixed.

Good luck

Mike
Title: Re: 1/3rd scale V10
Post by: billmac on July 24, 2015, 04:36:54 PM
This just keeps getting better and better. Sorry to hear about the small problem with the rotors, but I am sure you will work around that. Please keep us up to date; I look forward to seeing the latest progress reports.

Title: Re: 1/3rd scale V10
Post by: Greg Haisley on July 24, 2015, 08:11:30 PM
Well, I'm still here. Seems I'm not much of a poster, or photographer, but I have a few pics to bring me up to date.

I made the housing for the supercharger rotors, and the gearbox housing, and then ran the rotors together with the helical gears fitted.
there was loads of interference with the rotors, so I just ran it for a bit and then removed the contact spots, and then ran it again.
This time it contacted somewhere else, so I removed those points.

Anyway, I went through this rigmarole about 12 times and they were still catching. It turns out that even though I'd closed the theoretical centrelines of the gears up a couple of thou' there was still too much backlash between the gears to keep the rotors where they should be.
there is about 4 thou' movement at the rotor tips. This needs to be 1 thou' at a guess. I ordered some gears with slightly longer centerline and I'm going to mesh them together with grinding paste, to get almost zero backlash at the centres I'm now stuck with.

Sorry for brief explanations, I don't get long for lunch here.

Maybe I can help you with the clearance problem. Replacing the loose gears is a must. The gears need to run minimum clearance like you said maybe a .001 or so.

  On a GMC blower the driven rotor has a splined shaft pinned into the driven rotor. The gear has to have a splined bore to match the splined shaft. This shaft allows the helical gear to move back and forth. The driven gear may be shimmed to twist this rotor independently from the driving gear to create tighter or looser rotor clearance because of the helix angle. The driving gear also has to be bolted to the rotor, preferably just like the driven gear (splined shaft pinned to the rotor). I'd start out with .010 shim stock between the driven gear and rotor, with both rotors lined up, then pin the driven rotor to the splined shaft. Now you can adjust the backlash between the rotors by adding or subtracting shims from behind the driven gear to suit the clearance you are looking for.  A street blower runs around .004 to .006 clearance at the edge to edge of the rotors.

Good luck Keith
Title: Re: 1/3rd scale V10
Post by: Vixen on July 24, 2015, 08:45:13 PM

  A street blower runs around .004 to .006 clearance at the edge to edge of the rotors.


That amount of clearance sounds very practical, sensible and generous rotor clearance

Mike
Title: Re: 1/3rd scale V10
Post by: dr_kingston on July 29, 2015, 08:19:03 AM
Hi Keith,
I built a Commer knocker type blower years ago and to overcome the sync gear backlash problem the non drive rotor shaft had 2 gears fitted. (one was 1/3d the width of the other).
The narrow gear had clearance on the bolt holes that allowed for adjustment to take out the backlash. (Zero backlash clearance is possible at start up). 
It worked for me.
Regards Dale
Title: Re: 1/3rd scale V10
Post by: Vixen on July 29, 2015, 12:33:53 PM
Dale,
That sounds like an excellent idea to eliminate the synchro gear backlash. I assume the 2/3 wide gear face is the one that does all the work and the 1/3 wide face does not transmit power, it only looks after the backlash.
I will look to see how that modification can be applied to my 1:3 scale Mercedes W165 two stage blowers.
Mike

Title: Re: 1/3rd scale V10
Post by: jschoenly on July 29, 2015, 12:44:29 PM
Man, that is just an awesome bit of design and machining there. 

I can't remember/find if I asked previously, but why the slightly offset crank pins on the throws?  Never saw that before and just curious.  Beautiful work!
Title: Re: 1/3rd scale V10
Post by: DavidF on July 29, 2015, 02:49:57 PM
Ive been looking at supercharger rotors and how they mesh and thinking about the backlash of the gears.  What im thinking is that if the rotor profiles are modeled with a cycloidal profile then it should keep the rotors from colliding even if there is some lash in the gears?? Im hoping one day to make a full scale supercharger for my flathead build. :insane:
Title: Re: 1/3rd scale V10
Post by: Admiral_dk on July 29, 2015, 11:17:08 PM
I know that Honda has used the same idea of an extra gear next to the one doing the work and the extra gear is pre-tightened with a spring - used on their gear-driven camshafts => zero backlash  :old:

http://smg.photobucket.com/user/lateott_156/media/CB-1Story/06.jpg.html (http://smg.photobucket.com/user/lateott_156/media/CB-1Story/06.jpg.html)
Title: Re: 1/3rd scale V10
Post by: dr_kingston on July 29, 2015, 11:29:00 PM
Hi Mike,
This type of backlash reduction works a treat. Yes 2/3 gear face does the driving. The 1/3 and 2/3 gears were bolted together as a complete unit and the teeth were cut on a hobber as one gear.
The gears were mated together with no spring loading for the backlash removal.
Regards Dale
Title: Re: 1/3rd scale V10
Post by: keith5700 on July 30, 2015, 08:01:24 AM
Thanks for comments/suggestions. I've got a few other projects on at the minute, so progress is slow on the V10.
I think the gears I am fitting now should have pretty much zero backlash when run in with a bit of paste.
I guessed at about 4 thou' backlash at the rotor tips, but I rigged a clock up the other day and it is 10 thou'!
This includes reducing the gear manufacturers recommended centres slightly.

Hopefully these gears will sort the problem.

Jared, the offset crank pin is there so I can have an 82 degree vee block instead of a 72 degree vee, and still have an even fire engine.
The crank offset is 10 degrees, which effectively delays the firing on the second bank by the same amount.

The wider vee gives me more space to get the intake/supercharger stuff in.
Cheers.
Title: Re: 1/3rd scale V10
Post by: jschoenly on July 30, 2015, 01:38:41 PM
Innovative!  Thanks, I had been wondering.  Keep up the awesome work, at whatever pace available!  ;)
Title: Re: 1/3rd scale V10
Post by: keith5700 on August 20, 2015, 12:45:46 PM
I've just had a week off work so I had a target to make the oil pump during the week.
I tried to remember to take photos this time too.
The pump is a 3 stage affair, with 2 x scavenge sections and 1 x pressure section, at the rear.
I've had the gears ready for a while.

there are ptfe gaskets between each face, which should seal the sections and provide a nice face for the gears to rub on.

I had to grind a 1/16" woodruff cutter down to 1.2mm, for the keyways in the shaft.

pump is now just about complete and ready for anodising over the weekend, if I can decide on the color scheme!

(http://i28.photobucket.com/albums/c201/keith5700/002_zpsrqunpj2b.jpg)

(http://i28.photobucket.com/albums/c201/keith5700/003_zpsg6w3pcjo.jpg)

(http://i28.photobucket.com/albums/c201/keith5700/004_zpshymjwhsg.jpg)

(http://i28.photobucket.com/albums/c201/keith5700/005_zpseitfcrkv.jpg)

(http://i28.photobucket.com/albums/c201/keith5700/010_zpsd4encopa.jpg)

(http://i28.photobucket.com/albums/c201/keith5700/011_zpsvinmfbdw.jpg)

(http://i28.photobucket.com/albums/c201/keith5700/013_zpsutimtfqf.jpg)

(http://i28.photobucket.com/albums/c201/keith5700/014_zpsjcat4r6n.jpg)

(http://i28.photobucket.com/albums/c201/keith5700/015_zps6mvm3nlq.jpg)

(http://i28.photobucket.com/albums/c201/keith5700/017_zpsqyxbqd0c.jpg)

(http://i28.photobucket.com/albums/c201/keith5700/020_zps0tdbbaus.jpg)
Title: Re: 1/3rd scale V10
Post by: Vixen on August 20, 2015, 05:34:54 PM
Keith
I like the idea of the ptfe gaskets between each section to seal the pump sections and to provide a nice face for the gears to rub on, but is there a risk of the gears ripping up the ptfe gasket? My Mercedes W165 is over the top with the internal oil pumps, thee pressure and four scavenge and then a separate external scavenge pump just for the blowers

What diameter is the driven shaft and what is the size of the gears?

Regards

Mike
Title: Re: 1/3rd scale V10
Post by: keith5700 on August 20, 2015, 10:04:18 PM
Mike, the ptfe sheet is 0,25 thick. It seems pretty tough so I'm hoping it will be ok. Theoretically there should be very little rubbing going on.
The driving shaft is 5mm dia. And the gears are 1/2" od.
The shaft for the idler gears is ground tungsten carbide, which I just happened to have lying about.
This creates a superb low friction bearing surface.
I have yet to test the pump, hopefully it will all be fine. Cheers.
Title: Re: 1/3rd scale V10
Post by: Vixen on August 21, 2015, 10:43:12 AM
Keith,
Thanks for all that information and advice. The pressure and scavenge pumps on the Mercedes are all 15mm OD and the shafts are 6mm OD, so things will be a little larger and easier for me. I am still a long way off starting to build the pumps, I am still at the drawing stage.
The full size Mercedes engine had hard metal plates separating the various pump sections, the pump gears rubbed against these hard metal plates. With three pressure and four scavenge pumps in the block and all those separation plates, there are many, many gasket faces; all of which will want to leak. I am looking to see if I can incorporate your idea of a combined ptfe gasket and gear rubbing surface. It may help simplify things.
There is a lot to be said for a freelance design compared to slavishly building to scale.

Cheers

Mike
Title: Re: 1/3rd scale V10
Post by: keith5700 on August 25, 2015, 01:07:21 PM
well, the oil pump project has gone off the rails a bit.
I anodised the front bearing housing, and this came out brilliant.
then I did the 3 gear housings, all at the same time. I noticed they seemed to be fizzing a bit, in the anodising tank, but thought no more of it.
Then when I dyed them, and sealed them, they looked awful.
Sometimes I get this, if I've used free cutting ally for instance.
Anyway, I decided to assemble the pump for testing, and sort the anodising out later. When I assembled the pump, with the ptfe gaskets, it looked even worse.
The pump now looks like some item of confectionery, rather than an engine part. It'll have to be plain silver I think.

(http://i28.photobucket.com/albums/c201/keith5700/image.jpg1_zps6uzwl0ty.jpg)

(http://i28.photobucket.com/albums/c201/keith5700/image.jpg2_zpsbrsonk4w.jpg)

(http://i28.photobucket.com/albums/c201/keith5700/image.jpg3_zpsvziozpng.jpg)

(http://i28.photobucket.com/albums/c201/keith5700/image.jpg6_zpsriyocjmc.jpg)
Title: Re: 1/3rd scale V10
Post by: Roger B on August 25, 2015, 01:36:15 PM
As you say that's a rather strange finish  ::) At least you should be able to test the pump system with it. There seems to be quite a large clearance between the gears and the body or is it just the angle of the picture? I thought that gear pumps had to have a close fit? (I am currently designing/starting to build one as a water pump for my horizontal engine)
Title: Re: 1/3rd scale V10
Post by: keith5700 on August 25, 2015, 02:34:40 PM
Roger, they are a lot closer than the photo. I've put a bit of a radius on the ends of the teeth to prevent any digging in on the ptfe.
There's probably around 2-3 thou' clearance.
Cheers.
Title: Re: 1/3rd scale V10
Post by: fumopuc on August 25, 2015, 06:57:56 PM
Hi Keith, I think the colour will be no real problem. The pump looks fine and more important will be the function. Waiting for the result of your sealing concept. In modern high performance engines, there are usually the gears running against the aluminium housing of the next chamber (pump housing) and the sealing is done by a grove and an o-ring.
Title: Re: 1/3rd scale V10
Post by: cfellows on August 26, 2015, 03:00:26 PM
Stunning work, Keith! 

Chuck
Title: Re: 1/3rd scale V10
Post by: MrDude_1 on September 03, 2015, 08:02:20 PM

(http://i28.photobucket.com/albums/c201/keith5700/image.jpg6_zpsriyocjmc.jpg)

actually, that looks like what real "red" pumps look like after several seasons... they fade out funny.
Title: Re: 1/3rd scale V10
Post by: keith5700 on November 02, 2015, 12:47:12 PM
well, things seem to have slowed a bit. I seem to have been messing around with this oil pump for ages. However, it's finally finished and working. I changed the colour in the end and it doesn't look too bad now.
Going to get back on the supercharger now. See if I can get any useful pressure out of it.

(http://i28.photobucket.com/albums/c201/keith5700/image.jpg1_zpscoa1m5ts.jpg)

(http://i28.photobucket.com/albums/c201/keith5700/image.jpg2_zpspg2z4mwa.jpg)

(http://i28.photobucket.com/albums/c201/keith5700/image.jpg4_zpsgfr36hic.jpg)
Title: Re: 1/3rd scale V10
Post by: BillTodd on November 02, 2015, 04:10:14 PM
Mindbogglingly good  :NotWorthy: :NotWorthy:

Bill
Title: Re: 1/3rd scale V10
Post by: Greg Haisley on December 09, 2015, 05:21:05 PM
Keith,

Visited Dyers Blowers a USA company in Chicago that does nothing but make blowers for the industry. 4-71, 6-71 and 8-71 GMC style blowers.

Some information I got from these guys. They run tip to tip clearance at .007 - .008 inch clearance also tip to case at the same clearance.

The tip to tip is set by shimming the helical gear on the driven rotor forwards or backwards to clock the rotor independently from the driving rotor. The helical gear slides on a splined shaft inserted and pinned to the rotor. This is why they can set the tip to tip clearance. The other thing they said is obvious you can not have aluminum touching aluminum. Or it will weld. So the rotor profile may need some clearance work to help eliminate this. The rotors really act like fan blades pushing the air to a confined space creating the pressure.

To get the tip to clearance they move case bores up and towards each other. He said you are only creating pressure on the bottom of the case from 3 o'clock to 9 o'clock, the top is just clearance. He also said the rotors under pressure will try to bend up towards the top of the case.

I hope this info doesn't throw up a road block for you, but rather help you to finish up your engine.
Title: Re: 1/3rd scale V10
Post by: keith5700 on January 06, 2016, 01:10:20 PM
Thanks Greg, sorry I've only just noticed your reply for some reason.
I decided to park the supercharger for a while and get everything in place for a Christmas fire-up.
This would be with a simple carb, no fuel injection.
All I wanted was to test the engine mechanicals, oil pump, spark plugs and the Megasquirt, for its 10 sequential spark output.

I finished the spark plugs first. They had 15mm of Macor insulator in the nose, and then the rest was ptfe. the electrode was 1mm copper wire. Then I made a simple insert for the inlet manifold, to direct air and fuel into the inlets.

I managed to get the Megasquirt wired up and programmed, and connected to the 10x coils, which came off Toyota Yaris.
The sparks firstly came out as wasted sparks, ie firing in pairs, but after adding the hall effect sensor on the camshaft, they came out singly, and in the correct order.

this is Megasquirt 3 with about 60 wires attached

(http://i28.photobucket.com/albums/c201/keith5700/image_zpszc42mr2t.jpeg)

These are the coil packs

(http://i28.photobucket.com/albums/c201/keith5700/image_zpsynxbrpxd.jpeg)

(http://i28.photobucket.com/albums/c201/keith5700/image_zpsprtfsq1d.jpeg)

20-50 full synthetic oil aerating from scavenge pumps

(http://i28.photobucket.com/albums/c201/keith5700/image_zpsy82zjmqu.jpeg)

Part of the cooling system, in the vee of the block

(http://i28.photobucket.com/albums/c201/keith5700/image_zpscefwvxmn.jpeg)

Crappy inlet manifold insert.

(http://i28.photobucket.com/albums/c201/keith5700/image_zpsdhrcrxgn.jpeg)

Title: Re: 1/3rd scale V10
Post by: keith5700 on January 06, 2016, 01:24:58 PM
this is the test bench setup.

(http://i28.photobucket.com/albums/c201/keith5700/image_zpsmrwtgg4c.jpeg)

Basically the engine ran like a dog. I managed to get it running on 7 cylinders before I gave up.
There was obviously a problem with the spark plugs, like I had with the V8.
I made another pressure chamber so I could test fire the plugs under pressure, up to 90psi.
This showed that some of the plugs were leaking to earth before getting up to 90psi.

To cut a long ball-ache story short, it turns out that this machineable ceramic isn't that insulating after all.
once the plugs get under a bit of pressure the spark takes an easier route, which, dissapointingly, was through the side of the insulators.

That turned out to be a load of work down the pan.
I quickly remade the plug internals with one length of ptfe rod, with tungsten carbide electrodes, and fired it up last night.
It ran smooth as anything, and idled quite low too.
Still smokes a lot though, so the 3rd ring hasn't helped much.
Confidence restored, I can now carry on.

(http://i28.photobucket.com/albums/c201/keith5700/image_zpsfhlqwita.jpeg)
Title: Re: 1/3rd scale V10
Post by: Roger B on January 06, 2016, 02:38:09 PM
Great progress  :ThumbsUp:  :ThumbsUp: and always something new to learn  ::)  :headscratch: Do you have a video of the first start/run?
Title: Re: 1/3rd scale V10
Post by: gbritnell on January 06, 2016, 02:39:59 PM
Keith,
I tried to start my flathead engine several weeks ago and got a lot of oil into the combustion chambers. If you have read my thread I had made provisions for oil rings but my original design didn't work so I tried to run the engine with just compression rings. I went back and came up with a different style of oil ring and was able to mount them on the pistons fairly easily. When I ran the engine over in the lathe to check things out (without the heads on) I was still getting a little oil past the rings. Not as bad as before but enough to make the engine smoke if I tried to run it. I have made a third rework of the oil rings so I'll have to see how they do.
My 302 V-8 has 2 compression and 1 oil ring and it has never smoked from day one so I'm perplexed as to to what's going on.
I don't know if there's words enough left to describe your engine but as far as a miniature it's totally incredible. Your attention to detail is mind blowing!
gbritnell
Title: Re: 1/3rd scale V10
Post by: cwelkie on January 06, 2016, 02:47:13 PM
Wonderful to hear of your progress.
Inspiring project of the highest accord!
Charlie
Title: Re: 1/3rd scale V10
Post by: Allen Smithee on January 06, 2016, 06:13:06 PM
I quickly remade the plug internals with one length of ptfe rod, with tungsten carbide electrodes, and fired it up last night.
It ran smooth as anything, and idled quite low too.
Still smokes a lot though, so the 3rd ring hasn't helped much.

Please tell me there's a video...PLEASE... :NotWorthy: :NotWorthy: :NotWorthy:

AS
Title: Re: 1/3rd scale V10
Post by: keith5700 on January 06, 2016, 10:13:12 PM
Cheers chaps.
Actually I did video the first successful run, but I wasn't going to put it on YouTube as it's a bit too shaky and ameteurish. I'm just making some exhaust gaskets to seal things up a bit and I may take a better video and upload it.
George, I'm hoping that when I run the engine for a while then the rings may seal a bit better and reduce the smoke. I didn't run it for long as the oil spray bars for the camshafts aren't in yet so I didn't want to push my luck.
I was also hoping that the dry sump system may reduce the amount of oil thrown up onto the cylinder walls, but that remains to be seen too.
Title: Re: 1/3rd scale V10
Post by: keith5700 on February 22, 2016, 01:49:52 PM
I spent a while getting the anodising right on the cam covers, then I had to do some decorating, and then I tried making one of the inlet manifolds. These are more complex than the V8 ones as each pipe is at a different angle.
Anyway, this one took about 35 hours. Hopefully the other side will go a bit faster.

I only made 2 boo boos on this one. I've shown how I fixed these as well.

(http://i28.photobucket.com/albums/c201/keith5700/image_zpspqgrkllm.jpeg)

(http://i28.photobucket.com/albums/c201/keith5700/image_zps0xwl3wad.jpeg)

(http://i28.photobucket.com/albums/c201/keith5700/image_zpsix4tj1a1.jpeg)

(http://i28.photobucket.com/albums/c201/keith5700/image_zpsond7nf6p.jpeg)

(http://i28.photobucket.com/albums/c201/keith5700/image_zpse6imfllm.jpeg)

(http://i28.photobucket.com/albums/c201/keith5700/image_zpsr0jzfhkg.jpeg)

(http://i28.photobucket.com/albums/c201/keith5700/image_zps2zioahwy.jpeg)

(http://i28.photobucket.com/albums/c201/keith5700/image_zpsdygeiqp4.jpeg)

(http://i28.photobucket.com/albums/c201/keith5700/image_zpsza3arbnv.jpeg)

(http://i28.photobucket.com/albums/c201/keith5700/image_zpsivu8f710.jpeg)

(http://i28.photobucket.com/albums/c201/keith5700/image_zpsvbzal9jj.jpeg)

(http://i28.photobucket.com/albums/c201/keith5700/image_zpsnpuvzkdb.jpeg)

(http://i28.photobucket.com/albums/c201/keith5700/image_zpsqqizvtcx.jpeg)

(http://i28.photobucket.com/albums/c201/keith5700/image_zpsl401tu2p.jpeg)

Title: Re: 1/3rd scale V10
Post by: keith5700 on February 22, 2016, 01:52:16 PM
(http://i28.photobucket.com/albums/c201/keith5700/image_zpseld0hhil.jpeg)

(http://i28.photobucket.com/albums/c201/keith5700/image_zpsxd7zchfe.jpeg)

(http://i28.photobucket.com/albums/c201/keith5700/image_zpslzk8bjfv.jpeg)

(http://i28.photobucket.com/albums/c201/keith5700/image_zpsfizydvgo.jpeg)

(http://i28.photobucket.com/albums/c201/keith5700/image_zpsqi0sshhe.jpeg)

(http://i28.photobucket.com/albums/c201/keith5700/image_zpsx5m6qt4y.jpeg)

(http://i28.photobucket.com/albums/c201/keith5700/image_zpsgraeq7wq.jpeg)
Title: Re: 1/3rd scale V10
Post by: vcutajar on February 22, 2016, 01:59:01 PM
WOW.  Speechless.

Vince
Title: Re: 1/3rd scale V10
Post by: Vixen on February 22, 2016, 04:02:31 PM
Another fantastic piece of metal sculpture. Beautiful machined and finished.

Isn't it strange the way a CNC will always give you an extra feature for free, just where and when you don't want it.

An excellent, invisible repair. You would never know it had happened.

Mike
Title: Re: 1/3rd scale V10
Post by: keith5700 on February 22, 2016, 04:11:44 PM
Hi Mike, don't know about cnc, this was all done on a manual Bridgeport.
Title: Re: 1/3rd scale V10
Post by: Vixen on February 22, 2016, 04:20:17 PM
That makes it even more impressive.

It also shows that there is nothing a CNC can do that a manual machine can't do as well.

Mike
Title: Re: 1/3rd scale V10
Post by: Roger B on February 22, 2016, 07:58:29 PM
That is magnificent  :praise2:  :praise2:
Title: Re: 1/3rd scale V10
Post by: scc on February 22, 2016, 09:52:03 PM
This is engine modelling at it's highest level.   I could only dream about making something like this. Extremely well done :NotWorthy: :praise2: :praise2  (  I'm glad there are no wires on my steamer)           Terry
Title: Re: 1/3rd scale V10
Post by: zeeprogrammer on February 22, 2016, 10:25:33 PM
Wow. What everyone else said.
That is just amazing.  :ThumbsUp: :ThumbsUp:
Title: Re: 1/3rd scale V10
Post by: CHP on February 22, 2016, 10:51:14 PM
Keith
great work
why is there pictures with no holes in between ports and in between ports on others????
I was also trying to figure out valve configuration " intake ,spark plug and heather "they match
for number one and then  1/4 of the manifold is missing ???
is it camera angle ???
Title: Re: 1/3rd scale V10
Post by: wagnmkr on February 22, 2016, 10:54:07 PM
For Sale ... Entire miniature engineering shop. Can't even come close to that quality.

Tom
Title: Re: 1/3rd scale V10
Post by: crueby on February 22, 2016, 11:11:28 PM
Simply stunning! Incredible piece of work!

Can we try putting it in my Miata?
Title: Re: 1/3rd scale V10
Post by: steam guy willy on February 23, 2016, 02:19:12 AM
That is really impressive, i'm sure i could not make that at all      brilliant.....something to aspire to.......humbling........
Title: Re: 1/3rd scale V10
Post by: keith5700 on February 23, 2016, 07:58:46 AM
Keith
great work
why is there pictures with no holes in between ports and in between ports on others????
I was also trying to figure out valve configuration " intake ,spark plug and heather "they match
for number one and then  1/4 of the manifold is missing ???
is it camera angle ???

Lots of question marks there. I thought 2 centre holes would look ok, but they didn't, so I banged 2 more in, between pics.
Not sure what spark plug and heather means?
The intake pipes were just plonked on the top to see what the colour looked like, ie. could I leave them as polished. I decided not, so they will get shot peened shortly.
I couldn't get them any more rearwards because of the big boss on the end.
The pipes are seperated as much as I dare. The inlet manifold will then distribute further out to the valves.
My inlet pipes would have looked ridiculous if they'd stretched out to line up with all 5 intakes.


Thanks everyone for comments. Cheers.
Title: Re: 1/3rd scale V10
Post by: gadabout on February 23, 2016, 08:33:02 AM
Keith, how do you machine the bores of the manifold tubes ?
thanks
Mark
Title: Re: 1/3rd scale V10
Post by: fumopuc on February 23, 2016, 07:44:17 PM
Keith, how do you machine the bores of the manifold tubes ?
thanks
Mark

Hi Keith, a fantanstic work and very well done repair.
Same question as from Mark is in my head.
Two straight bores from each side ?
Title: Re: 1/3rd scale V10
Post by: keith5700 on February 23, 2016, 09:58:04 PM
The holes in at the moment are 8mm diameter and go in about 15mm. The through holes will be 5mm diameter, but they're not in yet. I need to make another jig first so I'm waiting till I get the other side done first.
I'll try and get a drawing up tomorrow to show the holes. The first thing I drew was the through holes, and then the rest was based around these.
Cheers.
Title: Re: 1/3rd scale V10
Post by: keith5700 on February 24, 2016, 12:49:19 PM
This is how I'll get through. I'll need to open them up a bit with a small ball ended burr. Not sure how much air this engine will actually need.

(http://i28.photobucket.com/albums/c201/keith5700/003_zpswott871t.jpg)
Title: Re: 1/3rd scale V10
Post by: keith5700 on May 03, 2016, 01:23:05 PM
Still plodding along.I've been cutting corners a bit lately as I want to get the thing running.
So stuff like variable cam timing and superchargers will have to be added later, as will odd looking
bolts and other bits and bobs.
For now I just want to see it running on a single injector, which is inside the top plenum chamber.
I'll post a pic of this later, I don't seem to have one of the plenum internals at the moment.

I've got the throttle position sensor working, and the injector wired up.
The Megasquirt has been programmed to fire the injector, so I just need to plumb the fuel in and it should fire up.

(http://i28.photobucket.com/albums/c201/keith5700/image_zpsmzqgphxq.jpeg)

(http://i28.photobucket.com/albums/c201/keith5700/image_zpsmop6vjxe.jpeg)

(http://i28.photobucket.com/albums/c201/keith5700/image_zpsiweli88x.jpeg)

(http://i28.photobucket.com/albums/c201/keith5700/image_zpsyn31zbtt.jpeg)

(http://i28.photobucket.com/albums/c201/keith5700/image_zpswc01llxu.jpeg)

(http://i28.photobucket.com/albums/c201/keith5700/image_zpsl63epi5k.jpeg)

(http://i28.photobucket.com/albums/c201/keith5700/image_zpslspp7cnr.jpeg)

Title: Re: 1/3rd scale V10
Post by: Roger B on May 03, 2016, 02:28:04 PM
Good luck for the first start  :ThumbsUp:  :ThumbsUp:  :wine1:
Title: Re: 1/3rd scale V10
Post by: steamer on May 03, 2016, 03:11:55 PM
Steamer want big Vrooooom!!!!    8-)


Sorry Steve....... 8)
Title: Re: 1/3rd scale V10
Post by: fumopuc on May 03, 2016, 07:09:21 PM
Keith, I would like to wish you good luck for the first start of your engine.
Title: Re: 1/3rd scale V10
Post by: NickG on May 03, 2016, 08:23:37 PM
This is insane, never seen / known anything like it. Congratulations, can't wait to hear it!

Sent from my LG-H340n using Tapatalk

Title: Re: 1/3rd scale V10
Post by: Admiral_dk on May 03, 2016, 08:37:41 PM
Keith - I'm sure that we are many here who are looking forward to see a video of it running - so good luck or should I say ; break a leg ?

Beautiful as usual from you.
Title: Re: 1/3rd scale V10
Post by: MrDude_1 on May 03, 2016, 09:15:17 PM
What sensor did you use for your TPS?
I could really use one that small for another unrelated project.
Title: Re: 1/3rd scale V10
Post by: zeeprogrammer on May 03, 2016, 09:51:43 PM
Wow! What others have said...stunning, insane, vrooom.
Title: Re: 1/3rd scale V10
Post by: Kim on May 04, 2016, 05:59:23 AM
Just have to get my "Me too!" in here.  Just incredible.
Can't wait to see it go!
Kim
Title: Re: 1/3rd scale V10
Post by: keith5700 on May 04, 2016, 12:49:55 PM
Me want big Vrooooom too! More likely to be big splutter, fart and smoke!

I forgot to say, the plenum colour is a bit odd. Too much blue in it. I don't know what went wrong there.
It was anodised and dyed in the same black dye as the cam covers, but came out a completely different shade.
It will have to be re-done later when I figure out the problem.

The throttle potentiometer, I think, was RS code 473-580. They call them trimmers, not pots.

A couple of pics showing the injector setup. It's just a lash-up as I expect it to all change later.

(http://i28.photobucket.com/albums/c201/keith5700/image_zpsvjkij4ok.jpeg)

(http://i28.photobucket.com/albums/c201/keith5700/image_zpsldegvewb.jpeg)
Title: Re: 1/3rd scale V10
Post by: ddmckee54 on May 04, 2016, 06:00:37 PM
Keith:

Don't want to hi-jack the thread but I got a question about your Megasquirt system.  I've been thinking about that system for my '65 Falcon engine but I'm a little intimidated about having to do all the mapping myself.  How did you do it for this engine and is that process detailed somewhere?

Don
Title: Re: 1/3rd scale V10
Post by: keith5700 on May 04, 2016, 10:11:54 PM
Keith:

Don't want to hi-jack the thread but I got a question about your Megasquirt system.  I've been thinking about that system for my '65 Falcon engine but I'm a little intimidated about having to do all the mapping myself.  How did you do it for this engine and is that process detailed somewhere?

Don

PM sent.
Title: Re: 1/3rd scale V10
Post by: keith5700 on May 13, 2016, 08:49:59 PM
One thing I've always wanted is a v10 logo for the engine, so i decided to go for it. It took a fair bit of drawing up, as you can see from the number of sheets used.
I used 4mm, 1.5mm and 1mm cutters. Then shot peened it, then anodised and then wet and dry papered the anodising off the letters.

I have just ran it with the injector, which worked well, but the spark plugs are still a problem. I'm going to have to bite the bullet and buy some proper Macor. The ptfe is melting at an alarming rate.
No video yet.

(http://i28.photobucket.com/albums/c201/keith5700/image_zpsq1jigf1t.jpeg)

(http://i28.photobucket.com/albums/c201/keith5700/image_zpsw0xtruno.jpeg)

(http://i28.photobucket.com/albums/c201/keith5700/image_zpsgsqzafxl.jpeg)

(http://i28.photobucket.com/albums/c201/keith5700/image_zpsadks1eug.jpeg)

(http://i28.photobucket.com/albums/c201/keith5700/image_zps57ovqcmp.jpeg)

(http://i28.photobucket.com/albums/c201/keith5700/image_zpsujwx6nkq.jpeg)

(http://i28.photobucket.com/albums/c201/keith5700/image_zpsimzixnsa.jpeg)
Title: Re: 1/3rd scale V10
Post by: zeeprogrammer on May 13, 2016, 10:06:41 PM
Looks sharp! Nice job.
Title: Re: 1/3rd scale V10
Post by: Dave Otto on May 14, 2016, 01:30:30 AM
Very nice Keith; your work is amazing!

Dave
Title: Re: 1/3rd scale V10
Post by: Roger B on May 16, 2016, 07:26:03 AM
Is the PTFE melting or is it being burnt away by the spark? The residue from burnt PTFE is not very pleasant  :(
Title: Re: 1/3rd scale V10
Post by: fumopuc on May 16, 2016, 08:15:14 AM
A very interesting and extensive way to make a logo. Thanks for showing your way.
Title: Re: 1/3rd scale V10
Post by: Greg Haisley on May 16, 2016, 02:43:30 PM
I'm so glad that craftsmanship and creative engineering is alive and well from craftsman of this site.

There are so many good engineers / machinists on this site that it boggles the mind.

My kids generation (millennials) has me seriously doubting the future of craftsmanship and engineering.
Maybe they will surprise me I don't know, but I hope so. I know they can master a cell phone tho. so maybe there is a ray of hope.

Great work as always Keith, no amount of words can give you the credit that you deserve.
What you do with a manual bridgeport mill and lathe is very creative and amazing.
Title: Re: 1/3rd scale V10
Post by: keith5700 on May 16, 2016, 11:06:15 PM
Thanks for comments.
I have access to cnc machines, and the logo, and the inlet pipes would have been easy to do that way, but for some reason I seem to be on a personal mission to see if all this complex stuff can still be done manually.
I think maybe after seeing George Britnells work, and some of the shapes he creates manually, I want to do the same.

Roger, melting was wrong, it's being eroded by the spark. I'll try and get a close up pic at work next week. On hols at the moment.
Cheers.
Title: Re: 1/3rd scale V10
Post by: 777engman on May 23, 2016, 04:43:49 AM
WOW freakin amazing!!!!!!!!!!! :praise2: :praise2: :praise2: :praise2:
Dean
Title: Re: 1/3rd scale V10
Post by: 777engman on June 14, 2016, 02:21:17 AM
Hi Keith just wondering if you are back from hols yet? keen to see your work of art breath fire......
Cheers
Dean
Title: Re: 1/3rd scale V10
Post by: keith5700 on June 15, 2016, 08:01:25 AM
Yes, still plodding on. Decided I'd had enough of the multi-coloured anodising so I've been stripping parts and re-anodising and dyeing, to try and get some better colour matches. Also been making plug caps in a nice polyurethane injection (syringe) mould.
Pics soon.
Title: Re: 1/3rd scale V10
Post by: 777engman on June 16, 2016, 06:49:23 AM
You make this anodizing sound so easy........ if you take a look at my v12 build thread on this link you can see my start at setting up an anodizing plant. the container is 14 liters and should be suffiecent for the size of the parts I want to do. any advice would be most welcome as this is something I have wanted to sort for a very long time, just been too chicken s..t. LOL. :popcorn:
cheers
Dean

http://www.model-engineer.co.uk/forums/postings.asp?th=90605 (http://www.model-engineer.co.uk/forums/postings.asp?th=90605)
Title: Re: 1/3rd scale V10
Post by: Roger B on June 16, 2016, 07:36:19 AM
Did you get any further with the spark plugs? It looks like you are using automotive ignition components, are these too powerful for the small plugs? High Voltage will always track across a surface in preference to jumping an equivalent gap.
Title: Re: 1/3rd scale V10
Post by: keith5700 on June 17, 2016, 01:10:41 PM
Dean, basic anodising for our hobby use is easy.
You've already got the tank, so you just need 3 or 4 plastic tanks for cleaning water, and any dyes, and a car battery, and maybe some extraction.
get your part to be coated, get the finish you require, polished, peened, scotchbrited, etc. and then clean and degrease it with washing up liquid and paintbrush under the tap.
Don't touch it with fingers after that.
Hang it, or attach it to your ally wire, or rod, (i use knitting needles, threaded into the part) and dip it into some clean de-ionised or distilled water. Then hang it in your tank and connect the car battery.
Just let the part draw any current it wants, don't bother with regulators etc. I did this for a year but you don't need to bother.
If the part takes much more than 1 amp then you may need some extraction to take the gas away. its not very nice stuff whatever it is.

I use a aquarium air bubbler to move the acid around a bit, as bubbles can form on the surface if everything is still.
Take part out after 1 hour, rinse and then straight into the dye, before it dries.
Then out of the dye, rinse, and if colour is ok then pop it in a pan of boiling distilled water for a few minutes to seal the surface.

Once cooled then you're done.
Try and keep the acid around 20 c. you will need some sort of cooler rigging up if you are using large currents.
If you need a perfect colour match then try and anodise all the parts at the same time, as it's difficult to get identical conditions in the garage for successive runs.

So, distilled or de-ionised water at every step apart from the first degrease bit.  Piece of cake!

PM me if you want any specifics.

Roger, I managed to get some proper Macor, and have made 1 plug so far. Not tried it yet as engine is partially stripped at the moment. Not far off though. I may end up looking at cutting the power output from those coil over plug modules in the future. Maybe just reducing the voltage to the coil pack would do it, as long as it doesn't balls-up the Megasquirt?
I got some proper Macor from Precision Ceramics in UK. About half the price of RS.
I paid around 50 for a 300mm length of 10mm round, including post and all the other hidden charges!

Cheers.

Title: Re: 1/3rd scale V10
Post by: Art K on June 17, 2016, 05:59:27 PM
Keith,
I just wanted to chime in on how phenomenal your engine build is, wow....
Art
Title: Re: 1/3rd scale V10
Post by: keith5700 on June 21, 2016, 07:56:15 AM
Thanks Art.
Here is the mould for the plug caps. there is a brass insert moulded into the cap, which will have an M2.5 grub screw to hold the plug wire.
The material is 2 part polyurethane, which is exactly the same stuff we use at work!
material is injected at the bottom and rises up through 2 top exits.

(http://i28.photobucket.com/albums/c201/keith5700/001_zpsfy13roos.jpg)

(http://i28.photobucket.com/albums/c201/keith5700/003_zpscnwv9ybv.jpg)

(http://i28.photobucket.com/albums/c201/keith5700/002_zpsilzbjz9l.jpg)

(http://i28.photobucket.com/albums/c201/keith5700/004_zpscdbuw55q.jpg)

(http://i28.photobucket.com/albums/c201/keith5700/005_zpsd3zmuxvu.jpg)

(http://i28.photobucket.com/albums/c201/keith5700/012_zpsmrjqfzeh.jpg)
Title: Re: 1/3rd scale V10
Post by: steamer on June 21, 2016, 10:50:15 AM
That looks Awesome Keith!

Dave
Title: Re: 1/3rd scale V10
Post by: Roger B on June 21, 2016, 11:10:08 AM
Very nice  :praise2:  :praise2: Are you able to increase the tracking length on your spark plug, for example be making the end of the insulator convex? What is the present spark path length of the insulator in comparison to the plug gap?
Title: Re: 1/3rd scale V10
Post by: gbritnell on June 21, 2016, 01:07:26 PM
Keith,
If I didn't know better I would swear I was looking at the full sized engine. Masterful work!!
gbritnell
Title: Re: 1/3rd scale V10
Post by: fumopuc on June 21, 2016, 07:35:21 PM
WOW.Awesome.
Title: Re: 1/3rd scale V10
Post by: Mayhugh1 on June 21, 2016, 10:20:24 PM
Flawless parts, perfect fits and finishes, novel machining,  high tech ignition controls... There just aren't sufficient words. I agree with George...the engine looks full size in the photos except the fact there are no oil stains, casting flaws, or gasket sealer smudges. I need to get over to this forum more often. Your posts are gems. - Terry
Title: Re: 1/3rd scale V10
Post by: keith5700 on June 22, 2016, 07:56:29 AM
Thank you once again for nice comments.
Roger, here is crumpled up print of spark plug assembly. Looks like the next smallest gap after the actual plug gap is 1.3mm, although this is where the spark seems to be going a lot of the time, instead of across the tip gap. ???

(http://i28.photobucket.com/albums/c201/keith5700/IMG_03811_zpsukzlpp0f.jpg)
Title: Re: 1/3rd scale V10
Post by: Roger B on June 22, 2016, 11:07:28 AM
Hi Keith,

Based on other HV experience the tracking length needs to be at least 5 times the spark gap otherwise the spark will tend to track rather than go across the gap. Reducing the spark gap would help, you may be able to go down to 0.25mm. Radiusing the end of the insulator to increase the tracking  length would also be good if possible. I don't know how easy Macor is to machine.
Title: Re: 1/3rd scale V10
Post by: keith5700 on June 22, 2016, 01:10:20 PM
Roger, the chamfered version A gives the longest tracking length, although all three are pretty much the same.
Macor is nice to machine, but the dust is a problem to contain.
Which would you do if you were making them, a,b or c?
Cheers.

(http://i28.photobucket.com/albums/c201/keith5700/IMG_03881_zps1xiprnkk.jpg)
Title: Re: 1/3rd scale V10
Post by: Roger B on June 22, 2016, 01:40:10 PM
I would go for B, reducing the radius if possible to increase the length. A and C have potentially sharp transitions at the center electrode which will generally tend to promote arcing and tracking. Smooth curves are best for reducing the chance of arcing.

I have attached a picture of the HV connection on a 1.5MeV electron accelerator (my day job) as an example.
Title: Re: 1/3rd scale V10
Post by: keith5700 on August 23, 2016, 01:02:47 PM
Progress quite slow at the moment, but some headway made.

I made some engine mounting brackets to bolt onto the block, and then some soft mounts, which fix to a steel cradle.
I wanted to open up the space at the back of the engine to make room for the next interesting bit I've always fancied having a go at, which is a triple plate clutch.

I realise it doesn't actually need 3 plates, but I wanted them anyway!

The clutch is almost complete now, apart from the friction 'pucks' which will be made from ptfe.

Seems completely wrong to use this as the clutch friction plate, but I use it at work for clutch packs and it works great, provided you have the room for a big enough diameter, and enough clamping force.
The clutch is operated by a cycle hydraulic brake lever.

It all works very smoothly. Just need to make the splined shaft so I can test the torque it will hold.


(http://i28.photobucket.com/albums/c201/keith5700/012_zpsbtfaqtfs.jpg)
(http://i28.photobucket.com/albums/c201/keith5700/013_zpsknm23bwn.jpg)

(http://i28.photobucket.com/albums/c201/keith5700/002_zpszafaza22.jpg)

(http://i28.photobucket.com/albums/c201/keith5700/004_zps7ipiehkp.jpg)

(http://i28.photobucket.com/albums/c201/keith5700/006_zpsddltgoqs.jpg)

(http://i28.photobucket.com/albums/c201/keith5700/008_zpsktvw0lwx.jpg)

(http://i28.photobucket.com/albums/c201/keith5700/image_zpszwstzgug.jpeg)

The design of the clutch is a bit unusual as I haven't got a bellhousing or gearbox to push against, so the arrangement is such that it pushes against itself, hence the 2 thrust bearings. Hopefully the drawing is decipherable to anyone interested.

(http://i28.photobucket.com/albums/c201/keith5700/012_zps389airkj.jpg)
Title: Re: 1/3rd scale V10
Post by: Rivergypsy on August 23, 2016, 01:13:59 PM
WOW, I'm in lust!  :mischief:

Love the photo from your day job too - I used to work on those at the Cavendish Laboratory some years ago for electron microscopes. here's a couple of pics of a gun which went in the first STEM with aberration correction which the workshop built, and I sectioned for their museum.

(http://i1342.photobucket.com/albums/o779/rivergypsy219/Electron%20Gun%20filament%20and%20wehnelt_zpslinly0uq.jpg) (http://s1342.photobucket.com/user/rivergypsy219/media/Electron%20Gun%20filament%20and%20wehnelt_zpslinly0uq.jpg.html)

(http://i1342.photobucket.com/albums/o779/rivergypsy219/PIC_0031_zpsinowb2dh.jpg) (http://s1342.photobucket.com/user/rivergypsy219/media/PIC_0031_zpsinowb2dh.jpg.html)
Title: Re: 1/3rd scale V10
Post by: 777engman on September 28, 2016, 12:34:20 AM
Hi Keith, just wondering if you are ok, haven't seen any progress reports lately. I have got the anodizing plant up and running and done 4 runs now, 3 came out really nice but 1 not so much, the sand blasted finished parts looked to anodize OK but didn't take up any dye? got any thoughts on why? you can see the results on my v12 build thread that I sent the link to you before.

cheers
Dean
Title: Re: 1/3rd scale V10
Post by: Suitable on October 06, 2016, 02:08:43 PM
Hi Keith (and everyone here! I know it's my first post... But I just had to say something on this thread!),

Just came across your builds after searching the net trying to get some ideas on what project to start next... Wowsers!  :o I'm absolutely blown away with your skill set and incredible attention to detail! Every part is a work of art! Keep up the good work and keep them pics, vids, updates and info coming! You, sir, are an artist! Thanks for the inspiration to build something spectacular! Well, I hope I can... All on manual machines too  :popcorn: Do you design and build F1 cars for your day job or what?!? I'll stop drooling on my iPad over that triple plate clutch and the rest of these parts and get back to design phase on cad now...

Thanks heaps and kind regards (from Australia)

Steve

PS: Thanks heaps to everyone here in advance for the wealth of info on this site! So much info and so much to learn! Again, sorry for the first post here too... But this is seriously a work of art!
Title: Re: 1/3rd scale V10
Post by: johntenhave on October 12, 2016, 07:00:26 PM
Progress quite slow at the moment, but some headway made.

I made some engine mounting brackets to bolt onto the block, and then some soft mounts, which fix to a steel cradle.
I wanted to open up the space at the back of the engine to make room for the next interesting bit I've always fancied having a go at, which is a triple plate clutch.

I realise it doesn't actually need 3 plates, but I wanted them anyway!

The clutch is almost complete now, apart from the friction 'pucks' which will be made from ptfe.

Seems completely wrong to use this as the clutch friction plate, but I use it at work for clutch packs and it works great, provided you have the room for a big enough diameter, and enough clamping force.
The clutch is operated by a cycle hydraulic brake lever.

It all works very smoothly. Just need to make the splined shaft so I can test the torque it will hold.


(http://i28.photobucket.com/albums/c201/keith5700/012_zpsbtfaqtfs.jpg)
(http://i28.photobucket.com/albums/c201/keith5700/013_zpsknm23bwn.jpg)

(http://i28.photobucket.com/albums/c201/keith5700/002_zpszafaza22.jpg)

(http://i28.photobucket.com/albums/c201/keith5700/004_zps7ipiehkp.jpg)

(http://i28.photobucket.com/albums/c201/keith5700/006_zpsddltgoqs.jpg)

(http://i28.photobucket.com/albums/c201/keith5700/008_zpsktvw0lwx.jpg)

(http://i28.photobucket.com/albums/c201/keith5700/image_zpszwstzgug.jpeg)

The design of the clutch is a bit unusual as I haven't got a bellhousing or gearbox to push against, so the arrangement is such that it pushes against itself, hence the 2 thrust bearings. Hopefully the drawing is decipherable to anyone interested.

(http://i28.photobucket.com/albums/c201/keith5700/012_zps389airkj.jpg)

Dear Keith,

Just a quick note to record my admiration for your vision, your design skills and your masterful execution. Wonderful, wonderful work.

Thanks for sharing it with us.

Kind regards

John


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk
Title: Re: 1/3rd scale V10
Post by: keith5700 on October 12, 2016, 09:46:57 PM
Well, thanks again for nice comments.
Rivergypsy, I'm afraid the electrical thing was someone else's post, not from my day job.
Dean, hope my PM was some use?

I've not made much progress, so no new pics. The clutch works great. Nice and smooth.
I've got a driveshaft output now, but still will be using electric drill to start.
I've made a nice cooling system from an oil cooler radiator, and mounted in a box with electric fan.

Too much other stuff going on at the moment to get much further with engine, but I'm almost ready to fire up and get the video done.
I sold the V8 recently, so would like to have a working engine again soon.
Cheers.
Title: Re: 1/3rd scale V10
Post by: 777engman on November 17, 2016, 02:17:52 AM
WOW you sold the V8, must have been a ridiculous amount of money offered to entice you to let it go, I know its hard to see our babies leave home. waah waah, I got your pm thanks Kieth your advice was very helpfull. should be uploading some photos to my v12 thread later on tonight if you want to check them out.
cheers
Dean
Title: Re: 1/3rd scale V10
Post by: keith5700 on December 10, 2016, 04:50:51 PM
Well, apologies for the delay but the video is finally done. Had real problems with the spark plugs, as usual.
Runs just about well enough for this video, but needs another set of plugs making. Some really hot running ones.
I ducted the exhaust out of some 2" pipe, which had the unexpected benefit of deepening the exhaust note, so I kept it on. Sounds good with headphones!

Hopefully this link will work.rz0Uteqfpao
Title: Re: 1/3rd scale V10
Post by: Roger B on December 10, 2016, 07:37:59 PM
Wonderful  :) Congratulations  :praise2:  :praise2:
Title: Re: 1/3rd scale V10
Post by: sco on December 10, 2016, 06:10:59 PM
That is a work of art, skill and dedication!

Simon.
Title: Re: 1/3rd scale V10
Post by: /// on December 10, 2016, 09:10:42 PM
Sublime.
I can only dream of producing something half as good.
Great work again Keith!
Title: Re: 1/3rd scale V10
Post by: vcutajar on December 10, 2016, 10:29:46 PM
Awesome Keith.

Vince
Title: Re: 1/3rd scale V10
Post by: 90LX_Notch on December 11, 2016, 01:03:25 AM
Speechless!

Definitely world class.

Congratulations Keith on an outstanding build.

-Bob
Title: Re: 1/3rd scale V10
Post by: gbritnell on December 11, 2016, 02:31:48 AM
Keith,
What can be said? Impeccable!!!!!
gbritnell
Title: Re: 1/3rd scale V10
Post by: stevehuckss396 on December 11, 2016, 02:43:09 AM
Yeah buddy!

It's times like these that not having a computer with sound sucks!
Title: Re: 1/3rd scale V10
Post by: Brendon M on December 11, 2016, 03:16:09 AM
Hello Keith, this has to be the best news I've woken up to in a long time :D

I hope with enough time and practice, I'll be able to create masterpieces like this. Thank you for taking the time to show how it's done. :)
Title: Re: 1/3rd scale V10
Post by: kuhncw on December 11, 2016, 03:17:36 AM
Keith,

Beautiful work and a great runner.

Congratulations!

Chuck
Title: Re: 1/3rd scale V10
Post by: fumopuc on December 11, 2016, 03:36:26 AM
Hi Keith, fantastic. I do like your fully equiped test bed.
Title: Re: 1/3rd scale V10
Post by: mikemill on December 11, 2016, 01:14:45 PM
Keith
Congratulations on an exquisite build you must have a warm feel of satisfaction with a job well done.
Maybe you could give Honda/ McLaren a ring they need someone who knows what they are doing!

Mike
Title: Re: 1/3rd scale V10
Post by: Dave Otto on December 11, 2016, 07:15:52 PM
Most impressive Keith!
Beautiful engine and wonderful sound.

Dave

Title: Re: 1/3rd scale V10
Post by: steamer on December 11, 2016, 07:19:53 PM
THAT is so FREAKING AWESOME!!!!       

Made my day!

Dave
Title: Re: 1/3rd scale V10
Post by: BillTodd on December 11, 2016, 08:41:40 PM
Superb!!!

Bill
Title: Re: 1/3rd scale V10
Post by: Kim on December 12, 2016, 03:01:31 AM
"Wow!" is about all I can add to the conversation.  This is really amazing work, Keith!
Kim
Title: Re: 1/3rd scale V10
Post by: Art K on December 12, 2016, 03:58:44 AM
Keith,
There's nothing left to say, wow. The V10 sounds fantastic.
Art
Title: Re: 1/3rd scale V10
Post by: Greg Haisley on December 12, 2016, 09:55:26 PM
Full functioning artwork. Absolute beautiful art that runs.

Words can't express or describe the masterpiece you have created without a CNC machine.
Title: Re: 1/3rd scale V10
Post by: 777engman on December 18, 2016, 11:22:33 AM
 :NotWorthy: :praise2: :NotWorthy: :praise2: :NotWorthy: :praise2:Well done, Thats a freakin awesome engine mate
Thanks for sharing.
Dean
Title: Re: 1/3rd scale V10
Post by: maury on December 18, 2016, 01:59:13 PM
Kieth, I've been intermittently following this build. Don't post much any more, but this is an exquisit model. Masterful workmanship, and a great vision. Very few builders spend the effort you have, and the  attention to detail you have on this build. My hat's off to you!

maury
Title: Re: 1/3rd scale V10
Post by: keith5700 on December 20, 2016, 01:04:36 PM
Thank you all for your encouraging comments.

Tried to get some decent pics before it gets caked in burnt oil.

(http://i28.photobucket.com/albums/c201/keith5700/IMG_7600_zpsem0sa8da.jpg)

(http://i28.photobucket.com/albums/c201/keith5700/IMG_7607_zpsmt8fnjsp.jpg)

(http://i28.photobucket.com/albums/c201/keith5700/IMG_7612_zpsxuzwce5y.jpg)
Title: Re: 1/3rd scale V10
Post by: kuhncw on December 20, 2016, 03:30:07 PM
Just beautiful, Keith!!


Chuck
Title: Re: 1/3rd scale V10
Post by: Ramon on December 20, 2016, 01:32:38 PM
Awesome Keith - truly awesome :praise2: :praise2:

Extreme model engineering at its very highest level - 'Well Done' simply just doesn't seem adequate.

Congratulations on such a superb outcome, you must be feeling very contented indeed.


Regards - Ramon

Title: Re: 1/3rd scale V10
Post by: gerritv on December 20, 2016, 04:11:17 PM
Speechless.
Title: Re: 1/3rd scale V10
Post by: JMcRae on December 20, 2016, 04:29:32 PM
absolutely brilliant Keith!
Title: Re: 1/3rd scale V10
Post by: NickG on December 22, 2016, 11:01:06 PM
Absolutely amazing!


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Title: Re: 1/3rd scale V10
Post by: Flyboy Jim on December 23, 2016, 03:17:31 AM
That is one beautiful engine! Can't wait to see it running. Especially from the front ......looking at the belts!

Jim
Title: Re: 1/3rd scale V10
Post by: michelko on February 03, 2017, 06:02:01 PM
Hi keith i am working on a similar setup for spark and fuel for my bugatti engine.
Having big trobble with noise in the rpm signal. Could you please explain your system and the setup of sparkwires coils etc.?

Regards michael
Title: Re: 1/3rd scale V10
Post by: keith5700 on February 03, 2017, 09:15:11 PM
Answered on your thread, to keep your project all in one place.
Title: Re: 1/3rd scale V10
Post by: michelko on February 06, 2017, 08:52:13 PM
Keith,
Could you explain how you did the triggering for ignition/injection?
Thanks.
Michael
Title: Re: 1/3rd scale V10
Post by: keith5700 on February 09, 2017, 10:39:02 PM
Michael, sorry I missed this.
The main trigger is off the crank. The wheel is 30-1 tooth. The sensor is simple 2 wire vr type.
As I'm using full sequential ignition rather than wasted spark I then had to put a sensor on a camshaft. This is a hall sensor with a single magnet.
Title: Re: 1/3rd scale V10
Post by: zeeprogrammer on February 09, 2017, 11:20:38 PM
 :o :o :o :o :o

Just came across this for the first time.

Wow. That is some real craftmanship.  :ThumbsUp:
Title: Re: 1/3rd scale V10
Post by: ThomasM on June 18, 2017, 07:56:01 PM
Hello Keith,

Unbelievable. Someone who is not related to model engineering or metal manufacturing probably could not be able to understand how much engineering and manufacturing skills are needed for such a project. This is way of my actual skills and manufacturing abilities and it is - again - unbelievable.

Best regards,
Thomas
Title: Re: 1/3rd scale V10
Post by: Nick_G on June 18, 2017, 08:08:30 PM
.
Sublime.

I don't have a good enough command of English to express how fantastic I think the whole project is from design to construction.  :ThumbsUp:

Nick
Title: Re: 1/3rd scale V10
Post by: scc on June 18, 2017, 09:39:37 PM
WOW!!   I can only echo Nick's last comment :praise2: :praise2: :praise2:
Best Wishes      Terry
Title: Re: 1/3rd scale V10
Post by: ClaytonFirth on July 11, 2017, 02:30:33 AM
Absolutely amazing work Keith. Are you still working on this project? It would be brilliant to see this working with the supercharger!.
 :cheers:
Clayton
Title: Re: 1/3rd scale V10
Post by: keith5700 on July 13, 2017, 12:50:04 PM
hello, engine is pretty much the same still, but I have made a crude dyno, so just need some time to set it all up again and try and get some power figures.
I don't think the supercharger will ever get fitted. I'm thinking about whether to do one more engine at the moment. If I decide to do it then that will take up the next 2-3 years.
Title: Re: 1/3rd scale V10
Post by: Ye-Ole Steam Dude on July 13, 2017, 02:27:13 PM
Hi Keith, sure hope you keep us up to date on whatever project you decide to do.
Title: Re: 1/3rd scale V10
Post by: keith5700 on September 22, 2017, 12:58:09 PM
ok, update time. I've decided I'm going to make a 1/3 scale car/buggy/offroader to put the engine in. There's been too many people over the past few years asking why no-one ever puts one of these model engines in a car and get them to do some work. So we'll see why. It may be a complete disaster, especially with the V10, as there's so much stuff which has to go in with it to run.
Not sure where 10 x couilpacks are going to fit for a start!
Anyway, thats the plan at the moment.
I'm just collecting bits at the moment, and drawing up some preliminary designs.

The engine is still smoking badly so I decided to do something about it.
Removing the heads showed some cylinders far worse than others.

(http://i28.photobucket.com/albums/c201/keith5700/IMG_0463_zpsvgymgyfz.jpg)

(http://i28.photobucket.com/albums/c201/keith5700/IMG_0465_zps6fpe1slx.jpg)

first trial was to put seals on the valve stems. the only way I could think was to O ring the stems. I had to make a new set of valves, but they are all in now, and engine is running.

(http://i28.photobucket.com/albums/c201/keith5700/IMG_0464_zpse8j0kgs5.jpg)

Result is....no difference. Engine still smokes. At least I know now that it's the rings, or, lack of proper oil control ring.
So that's next on the list.

I tried to run it on the 'dyno' (friction disc and kitchen scales) but above 3000rpm it won't go into full load. I've had the fuel and ignition maps all over the range but it doesn't want to know.
I think now that it is being starved of air. the inlet system is fine for free revving, but to produce any power it needs opening up. Lots.

I need to cure the oil problem so I can get a wideband O2 sensor in the exhaust. trying to map the fuel by ear is a complete waste of time with this. Plus you can't hold a specific rpm/load position long enough to change things on the fly.

On my full sized engines I used the datalogging facility to great effect. Go for a run, look at the datalogs, and adjust fuel map in the house, whilst having tea!

So, oil problem needs solving first. If I can't do that then there's no point carrying on.
All the black oil on the bench came out of a manifold joint after about 15mins running.

(http://i28.photobucket.com/albums/c201/keith5700/IMG_0467_zpsvgtfhedz.jpg)

(http://i28.photobucket.com/albums/c201/keith5700/IMG_0468_zpswyk8ltaa.jpg)
Title: Re: 1/3rd scale V10
Post by: Roger B on September 22, 2017, 06:11:37 PM
It looks magnificent as ever  :praise2:  :praise2:

Is there a pattern to the oil burning cylinders? Are they the same on both banks? If so there could be excessive oil flow from the adjacent mains/big ends.

What is the cam timing? Is this restricting power over 3000rpm?
Title: Re: 1/3rd scale V10
Post by: Mayhugh1 on September 23, 2017, 12:00:26 AM
Keith,
I'm wondering what weight engine oil you're using and what oil pressure you're running? Immaculate work, by the way. - Terry
Title: Re: 1/3rd scale V10
Post by: keith5700 on September 23, 2017, 08:20:44 AM
Roger, the other bank of cylinders was fairly evenly discoloured. There's obviously a problem with the black one. Hopefully a snapped ring or something. The oil runs from the heads down 5 evenly spaced drain holes on the outer side of the block.
I have a 3 pronged attack planned at the moment. I'm going to shield the sides of the block so the crank can't whip up the oil from the side as it runs down. Then I'll fit a windage tray in the sump for similar reasons.
Thirdly I'm going to fit some better oil control rings. I was hoping George would have invented a ring design which solved his oil problem by now. Sorry if you have and I've missed it George.

I came up with a design which I'm happy with yesterday. I'll get some pics up later.

Cam timing is 106 atdc inlet, 250 a tdc ex. It would be great if the lack of power turned out to be a cam timing issue.

Terry, oil pressure is a fairly low 25psi. Oil is 0-30. I did have 20-50 in at the start, so I've had the full range in at some point.
Immaculate work right back to you too sir.

Any suggestions always welcome. I still do daft things occasionally. Last week I spent a frustrating hour with it only running on 8 cylinders. After multiple plug changes it turned out I'd got 2 of the coil packs the wrong way round, after a plug lead change!
Title: Re: 1/3rd scale V10
Post by: Roger B on September 23, 2017, 08:36:19 AM
What's the cam profile? You describe grinding from a master template but I can't see the opening angle mentioned. As a quick check is there an obvious overlap between the inlet opening and the exhaust closing at TDC?
Title: Re: 1/3rd scale V10
Post by: keith5700 on September 23, 2017, 11:29:36 AM
Roger, I'll have to check my figures, but they're at work at the moment. From memory I took the timing and overlap figures from a mild Comp Cams profile. I think it was their 224 grind but might have been the 214?
Title: Re: 1/3rd scale V10
Post by: keith5700 on October 11, 2017, 01:10:29 PM
Sorry for the delay. I got sidetracked making some 1/3 scale suspension pieces.
I can't find much about the cam timing figures but this is a graph I plotted at the time, which shows some overlap, but not much.
I suppose I could resurrect the variable cam timing idea if this made any difference. All the basic mechanism is there apart from an actuator.

(http://i28.photobucket.com/albums/c201/keith5700/2017-10-09%2022.01.56_zpsyo0zpiju.jpg)
Title: Re: 1/3rd scale V10
Post by: Roger B on October 11, 2017, 02:41:15 PM
Looking at that graph by the time you have lost a little motion to the valve clearance there will be no overlap. I would first check with a dial gauge and a degree wheel that you have something like the graph. If so I would try reducing the angle between the two opening points to 200 and see if that makes a difference. Hopefully there should be enough movement in your vernier adjusters.
Title: Re: 1/3rd scale V10
Post by: keith5700 on October 11, 2017, 03:55:41 PM
Will do. I'll draw up the actual curves rather than look at this theoretical one. cheers.
Title: Re: 1/3rd scale V10
Post by: Vixen on October 11, 2017, 04:45:17 PM
Maybe an idea to check as many cylinders as possible, especially the unusual colored ones.

Mike
Title: Re: 1/3rd scale V10
Post by: keith5700 on October 11, 2017, 06:17:25 PM
The engine is coming apart in a week or so. I've come up with a, hopefully, good idea for an oil ring, so if I can make a batch of these then they'll get fitted.
Photos soon if all goes well.
Title: Re: 1/3rd scale V10
Post by: 777engman on October 13, 2017, 03:34:36 AM
Hi, I am wondering if you have drilled some small oil return holes in the piston behind the oil control ring?? we did this on a few full size diesel engines that used oil from new, fixed it with no further issues. just a thought. as for power maybe put a degree wheel on the cams and check the actual timing relationship with the crank and make sure they are the same for each bank and each cam, and obviously the right spec.
cheers
Dean
Title: Re: 1/3rd scale V10
Post by: keith5700 on October 24, 2017, 08:39:27 AM
Hi Dean, sorry I missed your reply.
Yes I could try drilling the Pistons and using the existing rings, but dismantling the engine is going to be a right pain, so if I'm doing it I may as well try my new oil ring design at the same time.
The Pistons will get drilled though with my new rings.
I will be checking the cam lifts/timing etc. But at the end of the day, even if they are exactly what my spec says there's no guarantee that is the best spec for this engine. The best profile could be vastly different to what I have.
Cheers.
Title: Re: 1/3rd scale V10
Post by: michelko on December 18, 2017, 12:05:09 PM
Hi Keith,
fighting nearly the same Problems with the Bugatti. I found some info about timing on an old plan from the westburry SEAL. Maybe its helpfull?

Michael
Title: Re: 1/3rd scale V10
Post by: keith5700 on December 28, 2017, 01:51:00 PM
Thanks Michael, it was helpful.

I've not done much with the engine recently, since I got it running again after its strip down.
I've decided to build a 1/3 scale RC car to put it in, so I've made a start on that.
Been struggling with photobucket lately but I think I've got a couple of photos uploaded, I'll just see if it works.
I think it's best if I start a new thread in the vehicle section, so hopefully a full description of my plan will be up soon.

(http://i28.photobucket.com/albums/c201/keith5700/image_zpspie46w6i.jpeg)

(http://i28.photobucket.com/albums/c201/keith5700/image_zpsfkiwukeb.jpeg[/[IMG]


[IMG]http://i28.photobucket.com/albums/c201/keith5700/image_zpsd1ikhzoq.jpeg)
Title: Re: 1/3rd scale V10
Post by: keith5700 on December 28, 2017, 01:55:24 PM
Well that didn't work very well, but one of the photos got through. I need another photo host before I start another build thread. PB drives me nuts.(http://i28.photobucket.com/albums/c201/keith5700/image_zpsd1ikhzoq.jpeg)
Title: Re: 1/3rd scale V10
Post by: fumopuc on December 28, 2017, 04:01:43 PM
Hi Keith, WOW.
Great start of the rear suspensions.
Missing the camber adjustment shims.
I think the push rod in the last picture is not finished yet ?

Title: Re: 1/3rd scale V10
Post by: agmachado on December 28, 2017, 04:23:56 PM
Very nice !!!

Enviado de meu SM-N9005 usando Tapatalk

Title: Re: 1/3rd scale V10
Post by: AlexS on January 14, 2018, 10:09:53 PM
Hi Keith,

First what a masterpiece of an engine does you build! I am new here on this forum, working on a one cilinder project.

I saw that you have plans to change the valve timing. Maybe I could help you with some theoretic/simulation things. At school I've acces to a powerful Internal combustion simulation program, called GT Power. If you want I could do a couple of models with different valve timing etc. With proper inputs and specs of the engine it is possible to see lots of data, for example the fuel distribution over the cilinders or torque/power. It could give a idea what could be going on in the engine.

Maybe you could use the next info. In the book of Richard Stone, they advised specs for a valve timing as follow:

Intake opening: 10-50 degrees bTDC
            closing: 40-80 degrees aBDC

Exhaust opening: 40-80 degrees bBDC
              closing: 10-50 degrees aTDC

And the degree from TDC to max lift intake and exhaust between 104-109 degrees for low-mid range engines.

I added a picture for explain the numbers more clearly.

Greets Alex
Title: Re: 1/3rd scale V10
Post by: cam on February 24, 2018, 12:35:55 PM
Hello Keith,

very impressive!!! :ThumbsUp:

Could you please share some details, such as dimensions, bore, stroke, power, max revolutions...

Thank you very much.

Cam
Title: Re: 1/3rd scale V10
Post by: KB on February 27, 2018, 03:57:50 PM
Such an amazing engine. Awesome start on the car too!
Title: Re: 1/3rd scale V10
Post by: ccc1522 on June 30, 2018, 10:10:21 PM
Ive been really interested in this hobby and really want to get into it. I was drawn here by the video posted by keith and thought it was a very awesome build and hobby. I have a few questions however. Did you design all parts? if so could you direct me to any books or material that would help me in designing my own engine? I recently graduated with a BA in ME so i am able to use textbooks of design and calculations if need be. Secondly how were you able to design it so perfectly with the bored holes on the crankshaft for example. I understand those are very minute modifications to change very minute changes in mass and center of mass. How were you able to design such a magnificent crankshaft and find out proper counterweight design, placement and size. It is very interesting what you have done and I am very curious on the process you took for your design.