Model Engine Maker

Engines => Your Own Design => Topic started by: Craig DeShong on July 31, 2020, 04:46:56 PM

Title: 3rd Generation Otto Langen
Post by: Craig DeShong on July 31, 2020, 04:46:56 PM

This will be a build log for a 3rd generation Otto and Langen atmospheric engine; the design of which Iím currently completing and will soon commence building.  Iím going to take this initial post and give a little information, for those interested, about the Otto and Langen engines in general. There will also be a bit of unabashed, self-promoting for which Iím hoping you all will forgive me.

The production of the Otto and Langen type engines abruptly ended in 1878 when Nicholas Otto introduced his ďsilent engineĒ... which was the modern four cycle engine we know today; however for an engine design that was only manufactured for around a dozen years or so the Otto and Langen atmospheric engine went through tremendous redesign and maturity.  During those dozen years three distinct generations of the Otto & Langen engine were built. 

The 1st generation Otto & Langen, introduced at the Paris exposition in 1867, is the engine with the fluted column that most of us think of when the Otto & Langen engine is mentioned.  It is the engine that is, by far, the most well-known and the most frequently modeled.  It is of historic significance that serial number one, the first commercially successful internal combustion engine to be built is still extant and can be seen by appointment at the Technikum Ė Deutz Museum in Cologne, Germany where it is occasionally run for the spectators.  A video of that engine follows:

Zs56Cii3kdg
Serial number one, in the video, was built as an un-governed engine; however, within a very short time governors were added.  Wayne Grenning has built a magnificent full size replica of one of these governed engines.  Iíve been privileged to see it in operation and it is spectacular.  Below is a video of it and its builder providing information regarding the engine and a view of it in operation.

MaWUwWEexLo
Finally I give you a video of my 1st generation Otto & Langen model that I took while it was at a show several years ago.  Iíve also had this model on exhibition at the Cabin Fever Expo on several occasions.

Vt1v9oBzmF0
Very quickly, the fluted column was abandoned as it added complexity and expense to the engine.  Engines with the basic 1st generation mechanical design, but with a round column are designated 2nd generation engines.  Both the 1st and 2nd generation engines utilize two shafts, a main drive shaft and a spur gear driven secondary shaft to control the valve and rack lift mechanism. Those with a governor control the engine speed by regulating when the exhaust gasses are released from the cylinder, thus preventing the piston from dropping immediately to the bottom of the cylinder which would begin another power cycle.     An example of such an engine is this 2 HP engine, located in Oslo, Norway.

(https://i.postimg.cc/jdXYh9yL/990.jpg)
   
So now, we finally get to the object of this build; the 3rd generation Otto & Langen engine.  In 1872, two other inventors; Gottlieb Daimler and Wilhelm Maybach joined the company.  Maybach was tasked with redesigning the Otto & Langen to simplify its construction and lower the manufacturing cost.  The resulting 3rd generation engines were characterized by having only one shaft as opposed the two the 1st and 2nd generation engines possess.

As a side note, Crossley brothers on Manchester, England revised the Maybach design and produced their own version of a 3rd generation Otto & Langen engine.    This Crossley built version does incorporate a stub secondary shaft, but in all other ways it is based upon the Maybach design.   An example of this design is the Crossley Brothers built Otto & Langen engine at the Anson Engine Museum near Manchester England.  A video of that engine follows:

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Another example of this 3rd generation engine is the Crossley built Otto & Langen from which I designed and built my Crossley Brothers Otto & Langen Model I show below:

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An example of a 3rd generation engine designed by Maybach and built by the German parent firm Gasmotoren-Fabrik Deutz is the following; serial number 2697.  The governor appears to be missing from this engine.  It is currently owned by the Danish Technical Museum in Elsinore Denmark.
I1WpO44293U
I owe a debt of gratitude to a good friend, Bill Hazzard, who has provided me with original drawings of a 3rd generation Otto & Langen and a vast quantity of photos of Otto & Langen engines in general.  This treasure trove of information assisted me in the design of the 3rd generation Otto & Langen this post introduces.  Bill has also designed and built a full size 3rd generation Otto & Langen replica, a video of which I provide below.  His engine runs beautifully as you can see in the following video.
hYaftxUBpY4
Finally Iíve included a photo that was taken many years ago in Philadelphia, Pennsylvania USA.  This photo is from the Schleicher Brothers engine works who were distributers, here in the states, for the Deutz built Otto & Langen engines.  I include the photo only to give an indication that the Otto & Langen was built in many different versions and sizes.

Having worked at a major University I suspect Iím still looking for that teachable moment; so thank you for indulging me with this somewhat lengthy narrative.  The build of this model will follow.
Title: Re: 3rd Generation Otto Langen
Post by: Vixen on July 31, 2020, 05:11:10 PM
Hi Craig,

Thanks for the short history, telling how these interesting engines evolved with time.

I feel the historical background is an important part of preserving the heritage. If no one records and tells the story, it will be lost to future generations.

When do the chips start flying?

Mike
Title: Re: 3rd Generation Otto Langen
Post by: awake on July 31, 2020, 06:14:34 PM
Craig, good to hear from you! I was just thinking the other day that it had been a while since I'd seen you post. I look forward to this next project!
Title: Re: 3rd Generation Otto Langen
Post by: Craig DeShong on August 01, 2020, 09:25:03 PM
Mike and Andy; thanks for commenting.

I'm still fiddling with the Witte; though at this point it appears to be a lost cause.

I have a bit of design to complete on this Otto Langen before I'm ready to commit to cutting metal.  Once the design is complete; and I'm nearly there; I like to go through the entire assembly process one final time on the computer- looking for interference, things that don't fit well, and other potential problems.  It's easier to correct the design than make new parts down the road!

The build will probably start shortly.. in a week or two.
Title: Re: 3rd Generation Otto Langen
Post by: Johnmcc69 on August 02, 2020, 01:22:01 AM
 :ThumbsUp:
 Great background write up!

 I look forward to following along on your journey.

  :popcorn:

 John
Title: Re: 3rd Generation Otto Langen
Post by: Craig DeShong on August 03, 2020, 12:26:21 AM
Mike, Andy, and John; thanks for showing interest in this project.  Itís going to be a interesting built.  Iím thinking that after building two Otto Langen Models, this one ought to be pretty straight-forwardÖ but as soon as I say that Iíll jinx the project for sure so Iím not saying it (ooooops looks like I just did!).

The design is all but finished.  This model will be a tad under two feet in height when complete; so it will be of the size of my fluted column, first generation model.  That makes it a larger model that the 2nd generation Crossley I built which is at 1/6th size.  The actual scale of this model is .22 inches to the full size inch; or a bit over 1/5th size. 

The scale was pretty much dictated by the flywheel casing I could find that would finish out to an Otto & Langen looking flywheel.   I have the flywheel at hand, as well as a two inch diameter honed steel cylinder tube to supply the model with a consistent diameter  bore.  I bored and honed the cylinder of my 1st generation Otto Langen myself and it was a chore to get a consistent bore.  Kirk kindly supplied me with a honed cylinder for the Crossley 2nd generation and it made getting a consistent bore a non-issue.  Iíve learned my lesson and searched out a honed cylinder for this model also.

I still have a few odds-and-ends to address before I start cutting metal but commencing the build is not far away.

Iíve attached several elevation renderings of the final assembly from my Alibre design tool so you can get an idea of what this model will look like when complete.
Title: Re: 3rd Generation Otto Langen
Post by: Craig DeShong on August 06, 2020, 06:50:52 PM
Mike; Iíve always found that discovering the history of the engines I model is part of the process.  I also like to take my models to shows where spectators almost always comment and I like to have some background information for those that are curious regarding the full size engine Iíve modeled as I feel that is part of the story.
 
Construction of the model started today.  Iím going to make the base and column and then fit the honed cylinder.

Here Iíve just mounted a 5 Ĺ inch round piece of aluminum to my lathe to begin the work on the base.
(https://i.postimg.cc/2j9H4vNW/20200806-094544.jpg)

The first order of business is to square things up and then begin forming the base flange.
(https://i.postimg.cc/BZzg802c/20200806-111914.jpg)


Iíll finish the flange later.  Here Iím boring the center in preparation for pressing in the cylinder liner.  These large presses are challenging because with such a large diameter the resistance fit can only be one half to one thousandth of an inch.  I thought Iíd error on the large side, figuring I could always smear a little JB weld on the joint if it was a sloppy fit, but I managed to hit my measurement of 2.245 inch diameter right on the nose. 
(https://i.postimg.cc/DZMqbr4y/20200806-130917.jpg)


Once again Iím making mountains of aluminum swarf; time to empty the trash bin.
(https://i.postimg.cc/qRWXtsWX/20200806-125358.jpg)
Title: Re: 3rd Generation Otto Langen
Post by: awake on August 06, 2020, 08:04:30 PM
Nicely done!

For a press fit like that, do you ever use heat / cooling? I find that just a heat gun from HF on the outside part, and the freezer for the inside part, allows for quite a bit of additional interference.
Title: Re: 3rd Generation Otto Langen
Post by: Craig DeShong on August 07, 2020, 07:46:41 PM
Andy, thanks for the interest and question.   The short answer is; no.

My mentor was an extraordinary machinist; but he was very ďold schoolĒ.  His opinion was that if you made it right it would fit together properly.
 
I vividly remember my introduction to a metal lathe.  I wanted to build a live steam locomotive so I knew I would need to be some kind of machinist to do that.  Iíd never seen a metal lathe (or mill for that matter) but he and I took a trip up to a used machinery retailer near Lake Erie.  He selected the best-of-the-lot 9 inch south bend lathe in inventory and we brought it back to North Carolina and installed it in my shop.  The lathe did not come with any tooling, but with my mentors help I purchased the basics, along with a three jaw chuck and a cast iron mounting plate that fit the south bend head stock but needed machining to adapt the 3-jaw chuck.

My mentor gave me a basic lecture on how to run the lathe, grind tooling, and how to turn metal.  He then departed and left me the task of adapting the 3-jaw chuck to the mounting plate.  This was my first experience with turning metal.  I got the job done, and I did it amazingly well, especially for a raw novice.  To this day I wonder how???

So; my training has been, ďIf you do it right it will fitĒí and it seems to be a good lesson to learn in my 20 plus years of metal work.  Iím not saying that your suggestion doesnít have merit; it probably does, but I just never think of things like that.  It wasnít how I was trained.

On to the Otto Langen. 

I finished the base today.  Actually I need to drill one more hole, the passageway into the cylinder; but I need to install the cylinder liner before I can do that.

In this photo Iíve turned the work piece around in the lathe and am boring out a recess in which the cylinder ďheadĒ (a flat piece of aluminum) will mount.
(https://i.postimg.cc/xdBjtXnt/20200807-085011.jpg)


Now I have the piece on the mill and am drilling the various required holes. 
(https://i.postimg.cc/1Xr9mM6j/20200807-111747.jpg)


I wanted to drill the mounting holes before I formed the bottom flange of this part.  Drilling them first made the drilling part a lot easier than having to drill the recesses on an angles surface.  Here Iím forming the flange, used to mount the engine to its working surface.
(https://i.postimg.cc/285pLzf6/20200807-114722.jpg)

Now, back on the mill to cut out and drill the recess for the valve assembly.
(https://i.postimg.cc/8PYYFMHK/20200807-134851.jpg)

For now, this piece is complete.  Next I'll start on the column.
Title: Re: 3rd Generation Otto Langen
Post by: Craig DeShong on August 08, 2020, 10:39:18 PM
Thanks for stopping by to see the latest.

I began work on the column today.  I must admit that the thought of chucking this 5 Ĺ inch diameter 11 inch long chunk of aluminum in the lathe gave me a moment of anxiety.  The perilous moment passed quickly, once I had a center established.  The center drill, once it dug-in, pretty much stabilized the piece at the tailstock end of the lathe.

Too bad I couldnít find a piece of aluminum that was already cored through the center; it would have made this job a bit easier.  Iím going to need to bore away a lot of material.  The bore goes completely through the eleven inch length, so I thought using my steady rest might be a good idea.  Not so much to keep the piece ďtrueĒ but to eliminate a catastrophe, where the boring bar would pull the piece off center enough to pull it out of the chuck.  My steady rest isnít large enough to accommodate the diameter I need.  Fortunately I bought this piece an inch too long, so I can turn down a relief on the tailstock end small enough to ride in the steady rest.  Once I get the piece bored I can cut off this relief.

Here Iím forming said relief.
(https://i.postimg.cc/NMP3V7Ky/20200808-151320.jpg)

With the steady rest in place Iím drilling out the center large enough to accommodate my boring bar.
(https://i.postimg.cc/vZsZ3bRJ/20200808-151644.jpg)


Here Iíve turned the piece around and am just doing some surfacing work, trying to get this piece of aluminum round and true to the centers Iíve established on both ends.
(https://i.postimg.cc/Pq6fXDLH/20200808-162418.jpg)

Tomorrow Iíll begin boring out the center.  Iíll be removing a lot of material with the finished diameter of the bore being nearly 2 Ĺ inches in diameter.
Title: Re: 3rd Generation Otto Langen
Post by: crueby on August 08, 2020, 11:32:52 PM
Great start, I'll be following along.   :popcorn: :popcorn: :popcorn:
Title: Re: 3rd Generation Otto Langen
Post by: kvom on August 09, 2020, 02:42:30 PM
Good thing the steady wasn't any smaller.   8)
Title: Re: 3rd Generation Otto Langen
Post by: Brian Rupnow on August 10, 2020, 12:05:51 AM
Nice trick with the steady rest. When I made the "boiler" for the Stephenson's Rocket I was faced with a similar problem---My steady rest wasn't big enough. The "boiler" was only 6" long though, so I used a live center to support the outboard end while I machined it.
Title: Re: 3rd Generation Otto Langen
Post by: Craig DeShong on August 12, 2020, 08:39:19 PM
Kirk, Brian, and Chris; thanks for your comments.  Thanks also for those of you who just stop by to see the goings-on.

Iíll tell you; boring  a 2 Ĺ inch hole through all nine inches of this aluminum cylinder was more fun than Iíve had in years (and if you believe that for a second, I have some swamp land in Florida that Iíll sell you for a condominium project.)

Not much to say about it, other than it took a while and Iím not eager to do it again soon.  Fortunately, the diameter of the bore wasnít critical; I just needed a hole for the sleeve to pass through.  I needed to bore from both sides or I would have needed to upgrade my set of boring bars for increased rigidity.  I also needed to make a holding fixture to support the cylinder out on the lathe tailstock end (to hold the cylinder with the steady rest).

Just a few photos from the process.

(https://i.postimg.cc/v8rQVnsx/20200812-092810.jpg)

(https://i.postimg.cc/BQ7RLZX1/20200812-125323.jpg)

Iím not finished with this cylinder yet.  I still need to form the external taper down the nine inch length (a taper attachment on the lathe would be ideal for this, and Grizzly does make one for my lathe; but Iím thinking itís an expense I just donít need to make). 

I also need to drill a few holes.

All that is next on the agenda.
Title: Re: 3rd Generation Otto Langen
Post by: Vixen on August 12, 2020, 10:12:31 PM
Hello Craig,

It always amazes me how they get all that swarf into the bar in the first place. :ROFL:

That's a mighty long and thin boring bar. How did you control tool chatter? What sort of feeds and speeds did you use. Did you have to change these as the centre hole gets bigger to stay on that 'sweet spot'.

Mike
Title: Re: 3rd Generation Otto Langen
Post by: Craig DeShong on August 12, 2020, 11:15:47 PM
Mike
I was fortunate that I didnít need a smooth, accurate surface; with the exception of about one inch at the very top which, theoretically will be a slip/light press fit to the liner.  This I did with a shorter boring bar so the stiffness would give me a smooth, accurate finish: which it did.  I need a good press fit at the bottom too, but that is with the base part; a separate part which I made up thread.  This column bolts to the base.

My goal was to remove enough material so that the liner would fit in this bore.  I was able to bore from both sides of this cylinder to the center, so the maximum distance was a tad under five inches in length.  For most of the work I found that 200 RPM and a feed rate of around .005 inches per revolution could remove 0.100 inches from the diameter and give me a good consistent cut. With higher speeds or feeds the boring bar just skated over the surface and would not make a cut.   

I used this extra-long boring bar for the final cut; eight inches in length; removing around 0.025 inches from the bore.  At my latheís slowest speed (70 RPM) and lowest feed rate (around 0.002 inches per revolution) I got a good consistent last pass, thought there was chatter and the surface is not as smooth as Iíd like.  It was a matter of setting up the pass, starting the lathe, and then sitting by and reading a few chapters from my current novel while the lathe did its thing.
Title: Re: 3rd Generation Otto Langen
Post by: Vixen on August 13, 2020, 11:57:53 AM
Hello Craig

I see what you mean :wallbang: 8 inches at a feed of 0.002 inches per rev at 70 RPM will need something like 57 minutes per pass. I hope you have an interesting novel to pass the time.
Have you tried using the razor sharp polished DCGT lathe tips to reduce chatter?  The **GT tips are polished to a very sharp edge but will chip easily, they are intended primarily, for use with aluminium and cut effortlessly and are less prone to chatter.

Mike
Title: Re: 3rd Generation Otto Langen
Post by: Craig DeShong on August 14, 2020, 03:23:06 AM
Great tip Mike.  I'll have to get a few.  :ThumbsUp:
Title: Re: 3rd Generation Otto Langen
Post by: Craig DeShong on August 14, 2020, 07:17:41 PM
Thanks for stopping by to see the latestÖ

Iíve been making lots more swarf these last two days, working the outside diameter of the column down to size and with a two degree taper.  I used the compound in the lathe for this work; and my compound has enough travel that I only needed to reset twice for the full 9 inch length of the column.  Below is a view as I just finish up the taper.
(https://i.postimg.cc/VNvTGWKg/20200814-104228.jpg)


And finally a view of the column  mounted to the base.
(https://i.postimg.cc/Fz4T4yV2/20200814-133911.jpg)

Next Iíll need to do a little trim work on the honed cylinder, and then press it into this assembly.
Title: Re: 3rd Generation Otto Langen
Post by: awake on August 15, 2020, 07:36:14 PM
Looking good!
Title: Re: 3rd Generation Otto Langen
Post by: Craig DeShong on August 19, 2020, 12:48:32 AM
Thanks for the comment Andy.  Also, thanks to those of you who just silently stop by to see the latest.

After finishing the column and base it was time to turn down the one end of the cylinder liner so it can be pressed into the base.  Iíll need to borrow the use of my friendís hydraulic press to insert the liner into the column.  I might not need to oooomph of a hydraulic press, but my hand press isnít tall enough to accomidate the height.  Below I have the cylinder liner on the lathe and am turning down the end in preparation for the press.
(https://i.postimg.cc/brQcdXHx/20200815-141102.jpg)


Temporarily setting the column aside; Iím moving on to forming the platform that sits above the column.  This is a 5 inch by 5 inch by 1 ľ inch chunk of cast iron that Iíll use to form the platform.  The first task is to get it square and to the correct thickness.
(https://i.postimg.cc/Xq6mRHSp/20200816-110809.jpg)


Next Iíve located the center of the column and drilled a centering hole.  All measurements are taken from this place.  Iíve also drilled and tapped the Ĺ x 20 threaded hole in which to mount the governor.
(https://i.postimg.cc/90B8vcYn/20200818-125554.jpg)

Here Iím using my Volstro rotary milling head to place a relief on the governor mount.  Occasionally I commit a really stupid mistake and this one was failing to lock the vertical movement of the quill before I began milling the relief around the governor mount.  The weight of the milling head drew the quill down and the result was gouging out too much material.  Iím not proud of these stupid errors, but maybe those watching who have done likewise wonít feel so bad, knowing that someone else does them too.  Iím thinking a little JD weld filling, sanding, and then painting will hide this error pretty well.
(https://i.postimg.cc/vZKqRq5b/20200818-132737.jpg)


Next Iím drilling most of the holes required in the platform.  I figured I might do this now, while the piece is still square and can be held securely in the mill vice.
(https://i.postimg.cc/DZkx0SCN/20200818-142813.jpg)


Lastly today, Iíve formed some of the straight reliefs.  Tomorrow will start the turntable work in milling out the center and profiling the curved front surface.  I could use the Volstro for this too I suspect, but thatís a sizable thickness of cast iron (over ĺ inch) and the turntable is probably a better choice regarding rigidity.
(https://i.postimg.cc/wM9F5SYc/20200818-155254.jpg)
Title: Re: 3rd Generation Otto Langen
Post by: Admiral_dk on August 19, 2020, 12:44:36 PM
Quote
Iím not proud of these stupid errors, but maybe those watching who have done likewise wonít feel so bad, knowing that someone else does them too.

I wouldn't trust anyone that claims to never make mistakes - we all do from time to time ...!

Nice work and interesting project  :ThumbsUp:       :popcorn:
Title: Re: 3rd Generation Otto Langen
Post by: Craig DeShong on August 23, 2020, 10:49:16 PM
Thanks for the note of encouragement Per; nice to know others are imperfect also. :embarassed:

Thanks also for those that take the time to stop by and see the goings-on.

Yesterday I pressed the cylinder liner into the column.  I failed to take a photo of the task but everything went as planned.

Getting caught up on my photos over the last few daysÖ

Work continued on the platform.  Here Iím cutting the relief on the bottom side to accept the top of the column.
(https://i.postimg.cc/0Qjs7wk7/20200819-101045.jpg)


Still on the turntable, forming the curved front of the platform.
(https://i.postimg.cc/0rR1gXpC/20200819-115134.jpg)


Here is a shot of the finished platform with the whooopsies  :hammerbash: filled with JB Weld.
(https://i.postimg.cc/qBttTtst/20200821-093300.jpg)


Moving on to the uprights (the members that support the shaft, flywheel, and many mechanisms);  I started with this bar of cast iron.
(https://i.postimg.cc/0N2QHr5y/20200821-103956.jpg)


And whittled out the main outer dimensions of the uprights and bearing caps.
(https://i.postimg.cc/1RNzdkSw/20200823-112046.jpg)


Once the bearing caps were drilled and the uprights threaded, I bored the opening for the main bearings.
(https://i.postimg.cc/5NdtWs9G/20200823-134501.jpg)


One of the things that appeals to me about these Victorian era engines is that they not only had to perform their function, but they were also made aesthetically pleasing.  Keeping this in mind, a little decoration was required on the uprights where the bearings are fastened.  Iím putting the Volstro rotary milling head to this task.
(https://i.postimg.cc/zDws37S4/20200823-143120.jpg)


And here is a better look at the milling.
(https://i.postimg.cc/pdhNTtqB/20200823-143104.jpg)


After a few more steps; the uprights were complete.
(https://i.postimg.cc/y8xtQH4z/20200823-165204.jpg)


And finally a ďmock-upí of the platform and uprights sitting on the column.
(https://i.postimg.cc/kGwYsjT4/20200823-165928.jpg)
Title: Re: 3rd Generation Otto Langen
Post by: awake on August 24, 2020, 06:03:02 PM
Looking good!  :ThumbsUp:
Title: Re: 3rd Generation Otto Langen
Post by: Craig DeShong on August 25, 2020, 10:32:05 PM
Thanks for the complement Andy; thanks also for those just stopping by the see the progress.

Iíve spent the last two days turning a four inch diameter, five inch long piece of aluminum into the rack guide that sits atop the column.  Lots of whittling, removing more material than what was left.

I believe Iím reaching the end of making bar stock look like castings.  Most of the future work will be focused on the operating mechanism.

The sprag clutch is next on the agenda.

Hereís a view of the rack guide sitting atop the platform and column.
(https://i.postimg.cc/mZ3Df8tZ/20200825-165154.jpg)
Title: Re: 3rd Generation Otto Langen
Post by: Dave Otto on August 26, 2020, 12:25:39 AM
That looks very nice Craig!

Dave
Title: Re: 3rd Generation Otto Langen
Post by: Craig DeShong on August 27, 2020, 09:21:17 PM
Thanks for the reply Dave; thanks also for those of you stopping by to see the progress.


I know I said up thread that the clutch would be next; but upon further thought I realized I needed a shaft upon which to mount the clutch.  Therefore I decided to make the mainshaft.  Also, UPS is taking it's time delivering the material for the clutch so making the shaft was a no brain'er.

(https://i.postimg.cc/8kZQ4WV1/20200827-140651.jpg)
Title: Re: 3rd Generation Otto Langen
Post by: Craig DeShong on August 28, 2020, 09:19:53 PM
Thanks for stopping by.

As promised up thread, I started on the clutch.  The first order of business was to face off the piece and then form the two shoulders as dictated by the drawing.
(https://i.postimg.cc/B6H2XX9X/20200828-104534.jpg)


After turning the pierce around I faced it to the proper thickness.
(https://i.postimg.cc/1XzRbjHs/20200828-114110.jpg)


Then I bored out the inside to accept the rotor.
(https://i.postimg.cc/02YxcxxD/20200828-140605.jpg)

Next I mounted the piece on the mill in preparation for drilling the mount holes and ramp start/termination holes.  A near catastrophe was averted when I realized that all my drawings for drilling the mount holes and forming the ramps were mirror images of the way the part could be easily held in my mill vice.

Rather than attempt to keep in mind that all my horizontal distances on the drawing were a mirror image of the milling I needed to do and would need to be transposed during the milling; I went back to Alibre and re-built all the drawings for this part so that the orientation of the part on the drawing and all the measurements were positives of the machining I would be doling.  This slowed me down a bit today, but better to simplify the task and get the machining right rather than ruin a part with several hours of time invested.


Title: Re: 3rd Generation Otto Langen
Post by: Craig DeShong on August 29, 2020, 11:59:19 PM
Thanks for stopping by, especially with so much goings on with the virtual show.  Itís a pleasure to see the diversity of fine model being exhibited.

Though I have spent some time on the virtual show thread, I HAD to get some shop time in today.  I thought Iíd attempt to finish up the clutch body and in that, I was successful.

Here Iíve just finished drilling the six mounting holes and holes to define the six ramp start and ends.
(https://i.postimg.cc/cLHPkLKQ/20200829-135715.jpg)


Using the same setup I employed my rotary milling head to cut the ramps.  This is one area where the rotary milling head outshines a turntable.  Each ramp is an arc of a circle with the center of the arc offset from the center of the clutch body. Each of the six ramps has its own arc center location unique to it alone.

Using the rotary milling head I could set the X/Y of the mill table to the arc center, and then swing the arc through the specified number of degrees to cut the clutch ramp.
(https://i.postimg.cc/x14hwVHB/20200829-165425.jpg)


Hereís a view of the finished part.
(https://i.postimg.cc/vmxkM2tT/20200829-165902.jpg)

I've also included the drawing I made to assist in cutting the ramps.  You can see the setup on the drawing for each ramp; the offset of the center of the arc, and the beginning and ending degrees of rotation.
Title: Re: 3rd Generation Otto Langen
Post by: Craig DeShong on August 30, 2020, 10:17:12 PM
I managed to tear myself away from the virtual show to get a little work done on the Otto Langen.  Today I addressed the main drive gear.

In the following photo Iím sizing the gear blank.
(https://i.postimg.cc/85rCpTJb/20200830-104701.jpg)


And then drilled and tapped the threads used to mount the gear to the clutch.
(https://i.postimg.cc/T3FMRgrZ/20200830-112005.jpg)


After making a fixture from aluminum that was used to hold the gear while the teeth were being cut, I mounted to gear blank on the dividing head on my mill and proceeded to cut the gear teeth.
(https://i.postimg.cc/hj057dd4/20200830-143356.jpg)


Finally, I give you a photo of the completed spur gear.
(https://i.postimg.cc/V64KNPxd/20200830-152930.jpg)
Title: Re: 3rd Generation Otto Langen
Post by: Craig DeShong on September 02, 2020, 09:04:29 PM
Thanks for stopping by.

Over the last few days Iíve finished up the clutch.

Once I got the hard parts completed (the clutch body and the gear) it was smooth sailing.  Here is a photo of the outboard clutch plate;  the side of the clutch that is against the left pedestal upright.   (whooops- looks like the drawing got labeled wrong)
(https://i.postimg.cc/xC5dzqZz/20200902_090727.jpg)

And next, the inboard clutch side, the side that fits up against the governor gear (to be made yet).
(https://i.postimg.cc/yxfWwWXH/20200901-121142.jpg)

Next, a family shot of all the clutch parts, prior to assembly.
(https://i.postimg.cc/CMv1MBky/20200902_101348.jpg)


And lastly, a mock-up of the shaft with attached clutch, sitting atop the column and platform.
(https://i.postimg.cc/xdyfwcn4/20200902_150534.jpg)

Hey!, with a little imagination you might guess itís gonnía be an Otto Langen engine !
Title: Re: 3rd Generation Otto Langen
Post by: Admiral_dk on September 02, 2020, 09:33:02 PM
Great progress so far and the parts look good too  :ThumbsUp:
Title: Re: 3rd Generation Otto Langen
Post by: Craig DeShong on September 04, 2020, 09:53:41 PM
Thanks for the encouragement Per.  Thanks also for those just stopping by.

While I was in a gear making mood; I thought Iíd get the rack out of the way.  I wasnít pleased with the way I made the racks for the previous Otto Langen models.  Milling the racks on my mill certainly worked, but the turntable I was using as an index-able table was prone to rotation so I needed to watch it Ēlike a hawkĒ and it was hard to maintain a consistent depth of cut as I proceeded down the stock and the rack gear teeth were cut.

This go-round, I thought Iíd use my lathe.  Iíll admit that Iíve been working metal for over twenty years and Iíve never had occasion to mount the work to the crosshead of the lathe and mount tooling in the headstock.  Thereís always a first time.

Below is the setup Iím using to cut the gear teeth in the stock that will become the rack.
(https://i.postimg.cc/kGTns9QT/20200904-120332.jpg)

And below Iím about halfway down the stock.  Iím getting some chatter and each tooth, though formed uniformly, doesnít have the nice smooth sides of the previous gear I cut.  The rack, when completed, is going to be very serviceable.  If I spend a little time with a file itís going to look a lot more presentable. 
(https://i.postimg.cc/yN82h9QC/20200904-151433.jpg])

This is another task that's taking a L...O..N..G.. time !!
Title: Re: 3rd Generation Otto Langen
Post by: steam guy willy on September 04, 2020, 10:29:16 PM
Hi Craig  Looking good  and was wondering about using ready made spur racks..?? In the HPC cat they are available in lengths up to 1828 mm

Willy
Title: Re: 3rd Generation Otto Langen
Post by: Craig DeShong on September 06, 2020, 11:02:57 PM
Thanks for stopping.

Willy; Iíd thought about purchasing a rack but hereís the thingÖ
Like many here that build models; for me itís about what Mike says in his signature, ďItís the journey that matters, not the destinationĒ.  Back twenty five years ago, when I started working metal; just turning a rod to the correct diameter was exciting.  Now, twenty five years later, it takes a bit more to give me that real feeling of accomplishment.  When I contemplated the rack I thoughtÖĒI ought to be able to make one of them myselfĒ and after some though Iíd devised a plan that I thought would work, and it has.  Itís a task that was fun and itís an accomplishment that Iím pretty satisfied with.  Yea, I could have bought it but I realized that I could make one too.

On with the buildÖ

In the following photo Iíve just completed cutting the teeth on the rack.  It took a while but the results are superior to the other two racks Iíve cut using the mill.
(https://i.postimg.cc/VLwDxqd0/20200905-132045.jpg)


Now, a little milling.  The full size Otto Langen uses a dovetail to mate the rack to the rack guide.  I suspect that I could have bought some expensive tooling and replicated this, (Geez, George would have made his own :facepalm:) but, I just couldnít see the outlay of funds; I mean, common, this thing isnít going to be THAT much true scale.

So Iíve cheated and decided to just use something like a ďtongue and grove jointĒ which is what I used on the Crossley Otto Langen.  Here Iím cutting the grove in the rack.     
(https://i.postimg.cc/zXmK682d/20200906-133322.jpg)


And after a little clean up and drilling the hole to accept the shoulder bolt to fasten the piston to the rack I show the completed rack.  ďAlmost as good as store boughtĒ, as my Mom used to say; though I believe you would have needed to grow up in the great depression (as Mom did) to fully understand the significance of that statement.
(https://i.postimg.cc/Nf1mwSWQ/20200906-140338.jpg)

Iím following a build thread Bill Hazzard is posting on Smokstak where he documents his build of his full size 3rd Generation Otto Langen I showed in the opening post of this thread.  You can see it here https://www.smokstak.com/forum/threads/one-more-otto-langen-replica-engine.208344/  if you like.

I noticed that on the full size, the rack is attached to the piston with a morse taper plug.  I hadnít thought of that but makes sense.  Oh well, too late to change the design now.  What Iím using worked on the first two Otto Langen models Iíve built and there is no reason to think it wonít work on this one too. 
Title: Re: 3rd Generation Otto Langen
Post by: crueby on September 06, 2020, 11:30:08 PM
More wonderful work, I'm off for another bag of popcorn so I can keep up!   :popcorn: :popcorn: :popcorn:
Title: Re: 3rd Generation Otto Langen
Post by: kvom on September 07, 2020, 11:49:08 AM
Nifty setups.  I imagine getting the rack aligned took some care.
Title: Re: 3rd Generation Otto Langen
Post by: Craig DeShong on September 07, 2020, 08:46:56 PM
Chris and Kirk; thanks for your comments.  Thanks also for those that just stop by to see the latest ďhappeningsĒ.

Chris: You must be out of chocolate chip cookies already! :thinking:  None left over after the show ?

Kirk: not as difficult as youíd think.  When I cut the piece of aluminum that mounted on the lathe cross slide, I made a recess in it so it fit down snugly over the cross slide platform.  This not only prevented rotation, but also assured me it's edge was perpendicular to the cross feed.  It was then a simple matter to get the rack material aligned with the edge of the piece of aluminum and I was assured that the teeth I cut would be perpendicular in the rack material.

It was a beautiful day here in North Carolina; almost to pretty to spend in the shop. :naughty:  I did spend part of the day there and made the piston.  I had slated this to be steel, but after searching my inventory, I only came up with a suitable chunk of cast iron.  There are lots of cast iron pistons out there, so cast iron it is.  The finished piston you can see below.
(https://i.postimg.cc/zXhtBq5V/20200907-144131.jpg)

Next Iíll be looking toward fastening the piston to the rack, and then making the rack guide.
Title: Re: 3rd Generation Otto Langen
Post by: crueby on September 07, 2020, 09:00:14 PM
Still a couple of bags of cookies stashed in the freezer, I make big batches!
Title: Re: 3rd Generation Otto Langen
Post by: Craig DeShong on September 10, 2020, 01:08:05 AM
Thanks for stopping by to see the latest.

A landmark event; getting the piston, rack, and rack guide installed and have everything work smoothly without binding.
sG_fHENZ4zE

Next Iíll address the piston rings.  You would think I might just purchase these but in reality, Otto Langen rings are different from normal piston rings.  Here Iíve cut out the ring blanks.
(https://i.postimg.cc/0jKrqg4K/20200909-130146.jpg)


If youíve built models for a while youíll know that everything doesnít scale linearly with the reduced size of the model, and the ability of the piston to traverse the length of the cylinder in an Otto Langen engine is a typical example of this.

The full size Otto Langen has a combined piston and rack weight that is probably close to 100 lbs.  A little resistance of the rings sliding along the bore isnít going to matter much with this amount of weight forcing the piston to the bottom of the cylinder.

This Otto Langen model has a combined piston and rack weight of a little under 1 Ĺ lbs.  You want the ring to seal but you just canít afford any appreciable frictional resistance between the rings and the cylinder wall.  This results in piston rings that are considerably thinner than standard piston rings.  Itís a tightrope walk between a ring thick enough to seal the cylinder but not too stiff to cause enough resistance that the piston will not drop to the bottom of the cylinder.   
In addition, the Otto Langen ring has the ring gap cut on a diagonal.  I suspect this is due to the high demands for a ring that seals well.  On the model, it helps create a better sealing ring, where the ring just canít press that firmly against the cylinder wall.

Iíll be taking all these issues into consideration as I make the single piston ring for this model.
Title: Re: 3rd Generation Otto Langen
Post by: crueby on September 10, 2020, 01:10:05 AM
Slick! Very impressive machine.
Title: Re: 3rd Generation Otto Langen
Post by: Craig DeShong on September 12, 2020, 12:08:10 AM
Chris: Thanks for your comment.  Thanks also for those stopping by to see the progress.

Over the last few days Iíve been continuing work on the piston ring.  Making these things is quite an ordeal since with the method Iím using, the work is quite labor intensive.  I do keep my fixtures, so if Iíll need to make another ring out there in the future, I already have the fixtures made, which will cut down appreciably on the work involved.

This is the same procedure Iíve used before; so if things seem dťjŗ vu, itís not you.

The first task is to turn an arbor on which to mount the ring blank in order to turn its outside diameter to size.  Here you see the arbor, with the ring blank attached.  Iíve used a radiator hose clamp to compress the ring blank onto the arbor.  Then Iíve pulled a retainer down on the ring blank to hold it in its compressed state.
(https://i.postimg.cc/hGYWkC1Z/1.jpg)


With the ring blank held on the arbor, Iíve removed the radiator hose clamp.
(https://i.postimg.cc/Hx7DdQSY/2.jpg)

In this view Iíve turned the outside diameter of the ring blank down to the required 2 inch diameter of the engine bore.  (The retainer is a bit off center, so it looks like the ring blank OD isnít circular, but it is.)
(https://i.postimg.cc/fyxG0Mn1/3.jpg)


Next I made a fixture used to turn the inside diameter of the ring blank to true size.  The ring blank fits in this fixture, and then the cap is screwed down onto the ring blank to firmly hold it in place.
(https://i.postimg.cc/X7WS6B9W/4.jpg)


Here you see the fixture mounted on the lathe, ready to accept the ring blank.
(https://i.postimg.cc/Z5YGCkfD/5.jpg)


And in this photo Iíve inserted the ring blank.
(https://i.postimg.cc/htCHmC64/6.jpg)


Now Iíve screwed the cap down onto the fixture, securely clamping the ring blank into the ring grove in the fixture.
(https://i.postimg.cc/C18tWw1d/7.jpg)


Then, boring the ID of the ring blank can commence.
(https://i.postimg.cc/MH84wgM5/9.jpg)


With the ring competed, here is a photo of the ring just after removing the fixture cap.
(https://i.postimg.cc/MK54kPW0/10.jpg)


And a photo of the completed ring.
(https://i.postimg.cc/VkNhzq6x/11.jpg)


Finally, the ring mounted onto the piston.
(https://i.postimg.cc/wjbGM1R7/12.jpg)
Title: Re: 3rd Generation Otto Langen
Post by: Craig DeShong on September 12, 2020, 08:32:13 PM
Thanks for stopping by.

Today I was working on closing the cylinder of this model so I could see how well the cylinder with its new ring seals.  The ring/cylinder fit on these engines needs to be a fairly good fit because any appreciable leakage will just rob the engine of power and these things make such little power that you really canít afford to lose much to leakage.   

Below is a video of a Ďcompression testí.  I have the engine sitting on a rubber pad and as you can see the rack isnít dropping at all, even when I press it down and it bounces back against the cylinder pressure (actually the bit of leakage you see is some air leaking by the rubber pad; with the spark plug in, It wonít leak at all).  Once I tip the engine over to break the seal on the pad, the rack immediately drops to the bottom of the cylinder.  This is exactly what I want in this model.
FNJf4wyf9Ng

Now, on to a separate topicÖ one Iíve been contemplating for a while but didnít think I could pull offÖ now Iím encouraged.

The 1st generation Otto Langen engnes that were governed used a different type of governing than the 2nd and 3rd generation engines.  The 2nd and 3rd generation engines use a governor mechanism that directly releases the pawl and allows it to engage in the ratchet- thus starting another cycle.  The 1st generation engines that were governed employed a governor that held the spent exhaust gasses in the cylinder, thus not allowing the piston to settle to the bottom of the cylinder where a mechanism was tripped to start the next cycle. You can see this happening if you watch this video of Wayne Grenningís magnificent 1st generation full size reproduction.  You can even hear the exhaust gasses hiss as the governor finally allows them to escape and the piston is finally allowed to settle to the bottom of the cylinder
QlxB5WraXNM
With the piston and rack on a model weighing so little, I did not think it was possible (at the size Iím modeling)  to have a good enough seal between the piston/ring/cylinder to trap the exhaust gasses so the piston would not settle to the cylinder bottom on its own accord, but yet have a fit that has so little friction that once the gasses are allowed to escape, the piston would settle.

But it appears that I have managed to do just that with this model.  The point Iím making is that this opens the possibility for me to build a 1st generation, governor controlled model.  Iíll need to think about this for a while.   
Title: Re: 3rd Generation Otto Langen
Post by: Craig DeShong on September 17, 2020, 09:45:08 PM

Thanks for stopping by.  The last few days have occupied me in making the ratchet and pawl parts. 

Below is a close-up view of the ratchet.  It is keyed onto the end ot the mainshaft.
(https://i.postimg.cc/LXRkbq4G/20200914-133028.jpg)


Next is a bracket that holds the pawl.  I might have misled you at the beginning of this build.  The 3rd generation Otto Langen engines do have a secondary shaft; albeit a stub shaft that runs inside the main shaft.  The pawl mechanism attaches to the end of this shaft that protrudes from the main shaft.
(https://i.postimg.cc/t4WxGXcb/20200917-140252.jpg)


This is a little bolt/spindle that screws into the above bracket and holds the pawl.
(https://i.postimg.cc/T2tjtYzH/20200917-135710.jpg)


And here is a photo of the pawl.
(https://i.postimg.cc/L551cLcQ/20200917-140212.jpg)

Lastly I give you a photo of all the above assembled onto the engine.  In this view, the ratchet and pawl are engaged.
(https://i.postimg.cc/26cq731Q/20200917-140726.jpg)


And in this last view Iíve compressed the spring, dis-engaging the pawl from the ratchet.
(https://i.postimg.cc/QCKMgmGD/20200917-140739.jpg)
Title: Re: 3rd Generation Otto Langen
Post by: Craig DeShong on September 22, 2020, 09:50:19 PM
Thanks for stopping by.

Iíve been working on the ratchet escape mechanism over the last few days.  This seems to me to be a forest of levers and crank arms; if I didnít know better Iíd have thought I was making baker valve gear for a locomotive. :facepalm:

This is the arm that lifts the piston using a pin on the rack.  I have as yet to install the pin in the rack; its placement is spotted once this lift lever is installed and all the motion is verified.
(https://i.postimg.cc/5tHH6HH2/20200920-144747.jpg)


Iíd spent the entire day Saturday making this bell crank.  I didnít think to look last week to see if I have some hot rolled steel from which to make it and Saturday morning, when I looked, I did not.  I did have some cast iron and I thought, ďcast iron will be okĒ.  A little voice in the back of my mind kept saying, ďcast iron is too brittle for those long thin arms and they will breakĒ. :old:  But I ignored the voice and made the bell crank as you see in the picture below.  While fitting it, one of the arms broke, :hammerbash: I should have known better. :slap:
(https://i.postimg.cc/N0gczZtq/20200920-090839.jpg)


Anyway, yesterday I purchased some A36 hot rolled steel and today I spent the entire day re-making this bell crank. 

Itís a curious part.  Below Iíve use my rotary milling head to form some of the curves this piece requires.
(https://i.postimg.cc/Xqn7cXvF/20200922-141554.jpg)

And in this photo Iím cutting the offset to one of the arms.
(https://i.postimg.cc/jqhjq68h/20200922-145315.jpg)


I was so excited to see how well it fit I forget to take a completed picture; but here I show it mounted on the engine.  Iíll use a tapered pin to hold it on the shaft and keep it from rotating but itís position is quite critical so Iíve used some red tread locker to ďspotĒ attach it in place.  Once the Locktite dries I can drill, ream, and install the taper pin.
(https://i.postimg.cc/QMrLWwCK/20200922-161320.jpg)
Title: Re: 3rd Generation Otto Langen
Post by: Jo on September 23, 2020, 08:08:38 AM
I've done that before  :facepalm: Made a bracket out of cast Iron to find one little tap and it broke  :toilet_claw:


Much better in steel  ;)

Jo
Title: Re: 3rd Generation Otto Langen
Post by: scc on September 23, 2020, 04:06:46 PM
Absolutely wonderful Craig, it's a interesting engine to watch.   What sort of equipment used to be driven by them?  Nice set-ups and finish.    Congrats.        Terry
Title: Re: 3rd Generation Otto Langen
Post by: kvom on September 24, 2020, 12:28:15 PM
Some tricky parts there.   :ThumbsUp:
Title: Re: 3rd Generation Otto Langen
Post by: Craig DeShong on September 28, 2020, 09:24:23 PM
Jo, Terry, Kirk; thanks for your comments.

Jo: thanks for the commiseration  :facepalm2:

Terry: These things donít develop that much power.  The one owned by Rough and Tumble at Kinzer, PA., which is the most prevalent size you see, is a Ĺ HP engine.  There were smaller versions made.  The larger ones went up to 3 HP but Nicholas Otto quickly found out that larger horse powers required significantly larger engines.  These things were pretty noisy when they were under load and they hammered the foundation of whatever they were mounted on.
Iím thinking the Ĺ HP or smaller engines could do anything that a ďhand crankedĒ piece of equipment required.  Iíve read that numerous engines were sold to printers to run their presses.

Iíve been putting off the machining of the flywheel but at this point I really need it to continue.  Iíd purchased a flywheel that would finish out to a 15 inch diameter from Martin Models back before I started the build.  There is no use building at a scale for which a flywheel canít be found.

I was absolutely appalled when this flywheel was delivered.  It was/is massive.  These Otto Langen engines are characterized by large diameter flywheels with thin rims.  To get the inside diameter of the rim to the required size I needed to purchase a flywheel of this size.  I reduced the outside diameter from over 15 inches down to the 13 Ĺ inches I needed and the thickness from 1 Ĺ inches down to 1 1/8th inches.

My 12 inch lathe has a removable ďgapĒ that will increase the turning diameter to 17 inches.  Iíve had the lathe for about ten years and Iíve never had the gap out but I was planning on removing it to turn this flywheel.  I was appalled when I couldnít remove any one of the four socket head cap screws that hold the gap in place.  Even with a pipe on the allen wrench to give me more leverage, none of the cap screws would budge. 

Plan ďBĒ was to turn the flywheel on my turntable as you can see in the photo below.
(https://i.postimg.cc/63W0JcGK/20200923-134228.jpg)
oooops... ok, you don't see the turntable, but you probably get the idea.  It was quite the slog.


I also needed to make the stand for the engine, because with this massive flywheel hanging off one side, the column would just fall over. 
I was concerned about perspective because the spokes on this flywheel are considerably larger in cross section than an Otto Langen flywheel should be, and I was concerned that the flywheel wouldnít look right mounted on the engine.  The jury is still out on this, but for now Iím going to let things be.  If I start cutting down the spokes, Iím letting myself in for hours and hours of filing to get them round and blended into the rim and hub.
(https://i.postimg.cc/Vvb03041/20200928-154001.jpg)
Title: Re: 3rd Generation Otto Langen
Post by: Craig DeShong on October 06, 2020, 10:53:37 PM
Thanks for stopping by.

My primary focus this past week was preparing, and then enjoying our Fall, live steam Rail Road run.  This was the last run for our clubÖ looks like our pond (from which we extract our water for the steam engines) will be drained in preparation for moving a gas pipe line that passes close by.  This is all part of the town of Apex planning.

Anyway, Iíll give you a video of my locomotive sitting in the steaming bays, building steam pressure.  I have this tub of ďphotographic coalĒ that I keep forgetting about, till I place some of it in the fire box.  Itís really smoky stuff, but great for the photographs and videos.
2ljbWOpRClY

Some folks like to charge up these grades, but I like to climb them slowly and listen to the ďstack talkĒ.
D2RFgSXPVq4

Back to the Otto Langen.  Iíve started work on the valve.  Here is a photo of the completed valve body.
(https://i.postimg.cc/Gp2WN7Vh/20201006-120936.jpg)



And here is a photo of it installed on the column.
(https://i.postimg.cc/0yHW68XP/20201006-171640.jpg)
Title: Re: 3rd Generation Otto Langen
Post by: Craig DeShong on October 07, 2020, 09:05:49 PM

Thanks for stopping by.  I spent the majority of then day in the shop and work progressed on the valve.  I finished the backplate and the slide; parts which Iíll show below.

The backplate is a part that you wonít find on the full size Otto Langen.  It is integrated into the valve frame.  I make it a separate part because it needs a smooth finish on which the slide valve moves and by making it a separate part I can use my surfacing machine to achieve a mirror, flat finish.  I show the finished backplate below.
(https://i.postimg.cc/cJYcM40p/20201007-114519.jpg)

And here I show it installed in the valve body.
(https://i.postimg.cc/NFN8fKkH/20201007-114634.jpg)


I thought I might show how the valve is ported.  My valve lacks the complexity of the fullsize, since on the fullsize, the valve must also transport a carrier flame that is re-lit outside the valve body with each cycle, and then carry that flame to the combustion chamber to fire the engine.

This photo shows my drawing for the backplate. 

The backplate has two threaded holes drilled into the left side to accept threaded tubing. .  The lower hole is continued at a smaller diameter and meets the two small holes in the backplate face.  These holes are .025 diameter and emit fuel (acetylene) into the valve.  The upper hole is continued at a smaller diameter where it intersects the vertical oblong void cut into the face of the valve.  This orifice emits air into the valve.

The oblong void below the two fuel holes is the passageway into the cylinder.  It is the only hole that passes completely through the backplate.

To complete the description, the lower, right oblong hole is the exhaust passage.  It allows the exhaust gasses to escape through some porting drilled into the backplate.  The exhaust finally finds itís way out of the backplate through a threaded hole on the right side of the backplate.  The porting passageways are plugged with set screws at the bottom and lower right.
(https://i.postimg.cc/8csJ4tL7/20201007-130831.jpg)



Below is a photo of the left side of the valve body.  Shown are the two holes which allow threaded tubing to attach to threaded holes in the left side of the backplate. The bottom hole is for fuel (acetylene) while the top hole is for air as mentioned previously.
(https://i.postimg.cc/RVNKLVTg/20201007-130649.jpg)



This photo shows the right side of the valve.  Shown is the hole which allows threaded tubing to attach to the threaded hole on the right side of the backplate.  This is the exhaust side.
(https://i.postimg.cc/nzFQjHzY/20201007-130659.jpg)



Below is a photo of the slide valve.  We need to remember that when these Otto Langen engines were built, steam was still ďkingĒ and some of the design criteria of steam engines was borrowed.  This slide valve is typical ďsteam engineĒ.
(https://i.postimg.cc/SKsnkgtD/20201007-144703.jpg)



Now Iíll give you a trio of photos with the slide valve in place.  A cover fits over the slide valve to seal the front side, the slide valve being sandwiched between this front cover and the backplate.

In this photo, the slide valve is shown in the ďat restĒ position.  This is itís position at the end of a power cycle.  In this position the exhaust passageway is connected to the port that passes into the cylinder, thus allowing the exhaust gasses to be removed from the cylinder.
(https://i.postimg.cc/8zLFZFfm/20201007-144811.jpg)



Now I show the slide valve cycled to the ďupĒ position.  Here the fuel and air passages are connected to the passageway into the cylinder.  With the piston being lifted, fuel and air is drawn into the cylinder.
(https://i.postimg.cc/c4n6JKhG/20201007-144818.jpg)



Next the valve is quickly cycled through the middle position (as shows two photos up) and moves to the ďdownĒ position.  Though the side valve still exposes the exhaust passageway, the port into the cylinder is closed.  In this position the engine fires.
(https://i.postimg.cc/qRFMJ0C7/20201007-144826.jpg)

The valve slide is then returned to the middle position where the cycle can repeat.
Title: Re: 3rd Generation Otto Langen
Post by: Craig DeShong on October 11, 2020, 01:16:47 AM
Thanks for stopping by to see the latest.

The last few days have been spent finishing the slide valve; a photo of which I supply below.
(https://i.postimg.cc/XJjzzWrQ/20201010-142758.jpg)

Of course I need to paint the model before I permanently install the valve, and upon final assembly, Iíll be sealing the valve to the cylinder body with some Permatex gasket maker.

Next on the agenda is the governor.  Once I get the governor drive gear made Iíll be able to permanently install everything on the main shaft and ďtimeĒ the engine.

There isnít much left to finish on this model; I might have it running In a few more weeks.
Title: Re: 3rd Generation Otto Langen
Post by: Craig DeShong on October 11, 2020, 09:37:30 PM
Thanks for stopping by.

I spend the entire afternoon making this bevel gear to drive the governor.  Itís a 45 tooth gear and if you know the drill you need to make three passes around the gear blank, so it takes a while.
(https://i.postimg.cc/sgjShNcZ/20201011-162656.jpg)

While Iím in a ďgear making moodĒ Iíll probably make the governor driven gear tomorrow if all goes well.
Title: Re: 3rd Generation Otto Langen
Post by: Dave Otto on October 12, 2020, 09:45:40 PM
Nice work on the gear Craig!

Dave
Title: Re: 3rd Generation Otto Langen
Post by: Craig DeShong on October 13, 2020, 10:01:02 PM
Dave; thanks for stopping by and commenting.  Thanks also for those of you who are silently following along (I guess youíre following along and not just opening this thread in error). :o

So, as a reward for stopping by; you get to see another original Craig ďfoul-upĒ. :facepalm:  If I canít laugh at these when they happen, then Iím going to be in a semi-constant state of unhappiness.   

ďCraigĒ, I said; ďThat shaft is over 5/32 inch in diameterÖ certainly its rigid enough to support the gear blank while I cut the gear teethĒ. :disagree:
(http://i.postimg.cc/50GwLtqN/20201012-183132.jpg)

ďWhooooopsieÖ Then again, maybe notĒ. :toilet_claw:
(https://i.postimg.cc/6pLLgtwY/20201012-183025.jpg)


Now, wiser and with more experience here are the governor parts after ďattempt 2Ē.
(https://i.postimg.cc/zG5Tn6WW/20201013-143259.jpg)

Iím using ball bearings on this governor as I did on the Crossley model.  I want minimal resistance to the higher speed step-up on the governor shaft.  Here are the governor parts assembledÖ.
(https://i.postimg.cc/v8VnCbtf/20201013-143439.jpg)


Itís always nice to assemble what youíve got and have a reality check.  It looks like everything is fitting nicely so far.  Obviously, there are a few more governor parts to make before I can call the governor done.
(https://i.postimg.cc/1Xh8yVr6/20201013-143601.jpg)
Title: Re: 3rd Generation Otto Langen
Post by: crueby on October 14, 2020, 01:54:28 AM
Always nice to discover new ways to whoops! 


 :popcorn:
Title: Re: 3rd Generation Otto Langen
Post by: Kim on October 14, 2020, 06:14:47 AM
Well, you're in good company, Craig! We've all done something like that before (and multiple times for some of us  :embarassed:).

Gears take a long time, but are very satisfying once you finally get them right!
Kim
Title: Re: 3rd Generation Otto Langen
Post by: Craig DeShong on October 19, 2020, 10:05:56 PM
Chris & Kim; thanks for your commiseration; good to know Iím not alone.  Thanks also for those just taking the time to silently stopping by for this progress update.

I havenít posted for a week, but Iíve been busy.  Right after the last post I had an epiphany regarding the governor and decided to go a different way with it.  Iím pretty sure the ďoldĒ way would not have worked; hopefully this ďnewĒ way will.

So after working on the governor it was time for a little paint, as the weather is getting colder and my outdoor paint days are numbered.  After paint, I assembled the beast and had a good ďlook seeĒ at the result.  A few photos show below:
(https://i.postimg.cc/05BjPQDv/20201019-163339.jpg)


(https://i.postimg.cc/s2mf8Dst/20201019-163345.jpg)


Here is a view of the governor; sill a few more parts to make and assemble to connect it to the ratchet/pawl escape.  I may hold off doing that till after the first successful run.  Iím thinking this thing might well try to ďrun awayĒ without a governor, since the piston drops immediately to the bottom of the cylinder after the power stroke- thus facilitating a new ďun-governedĒ power stroke.  If it gets too crazy, I can always cut the ignition.
(https://i.postimg.cc/nrjHC4BJ/20201019-163508.jpg)



Finally I give you a video of the mechanism as I turn the engine over by hand.  Everything seems to be working as it should.  The piston lift is functioning, the clutch is working smoothly, the valve is cycling, the governor is spinning around, and the ratchet/pawl is engaging and releasing.  Iím pretty happy overall.
Ql2z4dDDk8w
Title: Re: 3rd Generation Otto Langen
Post by: Don1966 on October 19, 2020, 11:27:42 PM
I been following quietly Craig seeing the hit and miss on the gear making I will tell you your not alone when it comes to mishap and blunders. I have felt like a dumbass on many occasions. The gears turned out well so not all bad right...., :cheers:


Don
Title: Re: 3rd Generation Otto Langen
Post by: MJM460 on October 20, 2020, 12:20:57 PM
Hi Craig, That paint really brings it out well.

Good to see the mechanism going through its paces, another of your most interesting models.

MJM460

Title: Re: 3rd Generation Otto Langen
Post by: Craig DeShong on October 20, 2020, 08:20:07 PM
Thanks for the replies Don and MJM.  Thanks also for those just stopping by to see the latest update.

Iíve been so lackadaisical this last week with my posts, I thought Iíd be a ďgood boyĒ and be a bit more prompt with the updates; at least for a while. 8)

Today was spent working on the tubing to get fuel and air into the engine, and exhaust gasses out.  In the below photo you see the air and acetylene intake tubing.  The acetylene tubing is, in reality, a solid cylinder that Iíve drilled out.  It has a restrictor at one end that is drilled to .025 thousandths of an inch.  Iím thinking this might be a bit too narrow, but Iíll start there and go up if needed.
(https://i.postimg.cc/BvbFNzQD/20201020-144911.jpg)


Things get more interesting on the exhaust side.  The exhaust needs a one way check valve in order for the engine to operate correctly.  This is because the slide valve returns to the ďneutralĒ position, where the exhaust port is opened to the cylinder, before the piston has been driven down toward the bottom of the cylinder by atmospheric pressure.  Without the check valve, air would just rush into the cylinder and the engine wouldnít get all the power out of the atmospheric pressure it would otherwise. 

The full size Otto Langen engines use a ball valve and Iíve designed this little valve to function likewise.  The full size has an oval casting with internal passages; something I really canít duplicate by machining.   
(https://i.postimg.cc/ZKY5rdqv/20201020-144919.jpg)


Hereís a photo of the completed valve and tubing, ready for application of the flexible acetylene delivery tubing. 
(https://i.postimg.cc/x86Ys6dJ/20201020-145008.jpg)


I just couldnít resist making some kind of builders plate for the model.  I just made up a patent number.  Itíll be interesting to see if someone notices.
(https://i.postimg.cc/pX1Rzc73/20201020-145021.jpg)
Title: Re: 3rd Generation Otto Langen
Post by: Craig DeShong on October 23, 2020, 11:58:50 PM
Thanks for stopping by to see the latest.

Lots of odds and ends consumed the day yesterday, getting ready to try the first run of this model.  I was ready for an attempt by late in the day; but I decided to wait till the morning today so I would have time to work out any lingering problems; lucky I did because there were a few.

This morning I turned on the acetylene and switched on the ignition.  After pulling the flywheel through a few ďdeadĒ cycles to allow the gas to reach the engine I was rewarded with a rather robust, first fire, a bit larger than I expected.  Everything worked as it should on this first cycle; the ratchet and pawl cycled the valve, the upward motion of the piston was arrested by atmospheric pressure and was driven back down where the clutch engaged and spun up then flywheel.   I was surprised at how quickly the flywheel spun up; I would have thought itís mass would have required several cycles.

Things didnít go so well on the next cycle.  The ratchet and pawl engaged enough to lift the piston a bit and open the slide valve, thus pumping fuel into the engine cylinder; but the pawl and ratchet slipped and the valve motion stalled there.  As the ratchet and pawl stuttered and the slide valve remained open it began to dawn on me that all that fuel being emitted into the cylinder wasnít the best :o situation.  About the time that I realized that I needed to cut the ignition before the engine fired, the pawl and ratchet finally engaged, carried the mechanism around and closed the ignition circuit.  ÖBAM!... :o

You might remember me stating that while at a show a few years ago I inadvertently did something to overcharge the cylinder of my first generation Otto Langen model.  The resulting explosion damaged the model.  While effecting repairs I decided to install a heavy spring at the top of the cylinder to gently arrest the piston motion were this to re-occur.  I installed a spring in the Crossley and I did so in this model.  So even though I had a serious over-charge situation this morning, the spring did its job and no damage to the model occurred.

I spent the morning changing the attack angles on the pawl and ratchet; thus ensuring a more positive latch-up when the engine is at speed, and I made a new restrictor pipe for the fuel intake; thus further limiting the amount of fuel available to the engine during a normal cycle.

With these adjustments and a few more I have the ungoverned engine running fairly well.  This engine hits harder than my 1st generation model, but I want it to do so, because I want it to rapidly get up to speed where the governor will allow it to coast a while, so a power cycle needs to provide the energy to do so.

At this point, the engine is firing well.  It just runs away if I let it.  Once I get the governor fully installed Iím expecting that it will regulate the speed.

The below video isnít the first run, but itís the first Iím willing to show you.
QI8GkOcZnj4
Title: Re: 3rd Generation Otto Langen
Post by: crueby on October 24, 2020, 12:09:27 AM
That is fascinating to watch!

When the governor is in place, does it work sort of like a hit/miss where it keeps it from firing only, or can it prevent fuel being drawn in too? 

EDIT: hmmm, never thought about it on hit/miss engines either, do they still draw in fuel on the miss cycles?
Title: Re: 3rd Generation Otto Langen
Post by: awake on October 24, 2020, 12:18:58 AM
Looking good, Craig! Glad you didn't blow up the model ... or the shop!
Title: Re: 3rd Generation Otto Langen
Post by: Dave Otto on October 24, 2020, 01:28:18 AM
Congratulations on the first pops Craig.

Dave
Title: Re: 3rd Generation Otto Langen
Post by: Kim on October 24, 2020, 06:32:44 AM
That's really cool, Craig!  :cartwheel:

Kim
Title: Re: 3rd Generation Otto Langen
Post by: Jo on October 24, 2020, 08:26:51 AM
 :whoohoo:

Well done Craig

Jo &  :pinkelephant:
Title: Re: 3rd Generation Otto Langen
Post by: scc on October 24, 2020, 10:32:48 AM
Very impressive Craig, Well Done. :ThumbsUp:         Terry
Title: Re: 3rd Generation Otto Langen
Post by: Ramon on October 24, 2020, 10:38:48 AM
I confess I haven't followed your build Craig but you are to be congratulated on a superb model and a fine runner to boot - bet you've got a good grin on  :ThumbsUp: :ThumbsUp:

Regards - Ramon
Title: Re: 3rd Generation Otto Langen
Post by: kvom on October 24, 2020, 12:30:27 PM
If there's no 4th generation, what are you going to do next?   :cheers: :stir:

Great action on the engine.  Mesmerizing to look at.   :ThumbsUp:
Title: Re: 3rd Generation Otto Langen
Post by: MJM460 on October 24, 2020, 12:47:15 PM
Well done on another runner Craig.  Great to see it in action.

Having achieved that must really be encouraging as you continue getting the governor running.

MJM460

Title: Re: 3rd Generation Otto Langen
Post by: ShopShoe on October 24, 2020, 01:27:16 PM
Fantastic.

You must have been holding your mouth right for that to work so well so early.

I am intrigued by this build and can't wait for the updates.

ShopShoe
Title: Re: 3rd Generation Otto Langen
Post by: propforward on October 24, 2020, 02:25:39 PM
Superb - a mesmerizing engine to watch! Thoroughly enjoyed that.

 :ThumbsUp: :ThumbsUp: :ThumbsUp: :ThumbsUp:
Title: Re: 3rd Generation Otto Langen
Post by: Craig DeShong on October 24, 2020, 09:16:04 PM
Chris, Andy, Dave, Kim, Jo, Terry, Ramon, Kirk, MJM, Stuart, and Shopshoe; thanks ever so much for the comments and compliments.  Thanks also to those silently stopping by to see the progress.

Chris: Iím not THE authority on hit-and-miss though Iíll take a good stab at your question.  Hit-and-miss engines are named such, because their speed is controlled by denying them every possible power stroke.  A governing mechanism forces them to coast through one or more cycles until their speed is reduced to the degree where the governor allows them to take enough power strokes to where the governor will again limit the power strokes taken.  Once these engines are ďhittingĒ on every power cycle; further loading them will just result in them being overloaded and eventually stopping. There is no throttle.

The method usually used to deny the engine power strokes is to hold the exhaust valve open.  Most of these engines have an ďatmosphericĒ intake valve not controlled by a pushrod, just the vacuum created in the cylinder during the intake stroke opens the intake valve to allow air and fuel to be drawn into the cylinder.  With the exhaust valve open, it is doubtful any appreciable amount of fuel or air can be drawn in through the intake valve.

There appears to be more mechanical ways devised for a governor to hold the exhaust valve open than you can imagine.  Every manufacturer seems to have had their individual method.  I was told some time ago that this was due to patents and the fear of patent infringements. 

Not all hit-and-miss engines have their speed regulated by holding the exhaust valve open.   The 15 HP Witte I just modeled has its speed controlled by eliminating fuel from the input when the engine speed is to be reduced. With this method the engine goes through all the cycles it normally would; there just isnít any fuel in the cylinder to combust.

Even the two cycle Maytag washing machine engines of the 1930ís and 40ís are, technically, hit-and miss engines.  Their speed is regulated by shorting out the ignition circuit to limit the engine speed. 

This treatise could go on and on; but Iíve probably bored everyone enough and  hope Iíve answered your question.

To answer your question regarding the Otto Langen; when at speed and governor controlled, the engine coasts with the mainshaft turning my inertia of the flywheel.  All other mechanisms are at rest.  The fly ball governor keeps the pawl and ratchet from engaging, thus the piston is not lifted and the valve does not cycle to emit fuel into the cylinder. 
What I fail to discuss in the following video is this governor control (I havenít built it yet) but with a governor installed, another lever prevents the pawl and ratchet from engaging.  Thus with a governor two conditions must be met for the engine to take a power cycle.
First: the piston must be at the bottom of the cylinder (this prevents overcharging of the cylinder)
Second: the governor must be running slow enough to allow the pawl to engage the ratchet and cause an other cycle to be taken.

jTAN3t4Xo9A
Title: Re: 3rd Generation Otto Langen
Post by: crueby on October 24, 2020, 09:34:15 PM
Great descriptions, thanks!!!
Title: Re: 3rd Generation Otto Langen
Post by: Brian Rupnow on October 25, 2020, 10:22:03 PM
Very impressive Craig. The engines you post that utilize a rack and pinion---I've never seen nor heard of them before.---Brian
Title: Re: 3rd Generation Otto Langen
Post by: Craig DeShong on October 28, 2020, 01:51:48 AM
Chris and Brian; thanks for your comments.  Thanks also for those of you who just stop by to see the progress.

Brian; I hadnít known these engines existed until I attended the Cabin Fever Expo for the first time some time ago.  Someone had one of Wayne Grennings models running and I thought ďWhat a peculiar engine?Ē.  Sometime later they really caught my attention and I decided to build one.

Iíve been working on the re-design and then the fabrication of the governor.  My first design depended, to a large part, on gravity to make things work correctly.  As I got into the build I realized that at the size of parts I was using, there wasnít going to be enough gravity to make things work right.

With the redesign, when the flyballs swing out, they draw the controlling mechanism down (maybe even against a spring if needed).  Iím thinking the re-design has a much better chance of regulating the engine.  Weíll see.

Here is a photo of the component parts.
(https://i.postimg.cc/Dz53smBj/20201027-151209.jpg)


And a photo of the parts assembled and on the engine.  The whole governor stands about  1 Ĺ inches above the platform. 
(https://i.postimg.cc/fLr42p4Y/20201027-150725.jpg)
Title: Re: 3rd Generation Otto Langen
Post by: Craig DeShong on November 01, 2020, 08:57:18 PM
Thanks for stopping by to see the latest progress.

Iíve been working on trying to get the governor completed and working.  Below is a photo of the controlling lever that attaches to the governor and then holds the pawl open from engaging with the ratchet (preventing another power cycle) until the governor deems a power cycle necessary.
(https://i.postimg.cc/zXKgshgG/20201030-162219.jpg)

This was the second ďtryĒ at making this lever.  The first go resulted in a lever, but several of the dimensions were off and I needed to make a few adjustments.  I ďsort ofĒ expected this so I wasnít surprised when the first one didnít fit exactly right.

With this lever installed it was time for a test.  In the video below Iím turning the engine over by hand without fuel or ignition.  You can see that as the speed picks up, the governor engages and prevents further cycles.  When the speed has appropriately diminished, the governor allows the power cycles to resume.  Iím expecting this to work well; assuming the engine can attain sufficient speed to allow the governor to lock-out the pawl and ratchet from engaging.
8oKREwJVZLc
Now for the bad news.  While ďtuningĒ the engine I had another over charge situation.  This time the rack was damaged.  I have affected repairs by milling off the broken piece (where the piston connects to the rack) and silver soldering on a new piece.  Iíve also changed the design a bit so this area should be a bit more rigid.

On Facebook I have been following ďWayne Grennings Shop WorkĒ and I thought it interesting that while I was working on these repairs he was discussing the piston stop system on a full size Otto Langen engine he is building.  The full size uses two springs with a maximum compressive force of 2,540 lbs.  The spring on my model is a paltry 15 lbs so Iím thinking that I have way under protected this model.  To that end, Iíve ordered the stiffest spring I could find that would fit the model, a spring that requires 185 lbs of force to compress it completely.  Iíll wait to run the engine again until I have this new ďsafetyĒ spring installed.
Title: Re: 3rd Generation Otto Langen
Post by: Craig DeShong on November 05, 2020, 01:16:31 PM
Thanks for stopping by.

Itís been a few days since I last posted, so I thought Iíd give an update.

The new ďoverchargeĒ spring was delivered.  Hereís a photo of the two.
(https://i.postimg.cc/WzLZ7pPn/20201104-151333.jpg)

As you can see, the new spring is an inch longer.  Upon installation, the engine is now hitting the spring with almost every power cycle.  The new spring occupies around 1/3rd of the overall available piston travel, so that isnít actually surprising.  The engine is also running on the governor, though it slows WWWAAAAYYY down before the governor dis-engages and allows a power cycle, so Iíd like to adjust that.

The engine is also ďhittingĒ harder than Iíd like when it does take a power cycle so I need to find a way to limit the amount of gas that is available during intake.

As you can see; a few more adjustments to make before I give you the final video of the completed model.

Stay tuned, and weíll see.
Title: Re: 3rd Generation Otto Langen
Post by: Craig DeShong on November 05, 2020, 08:58:13 PM
Thanks for stopping by to see the latest.

It seems my Otto & Langen model building has come around 180 degrees.  It took over a year to get my first model to fire; at all.  This third Otto & Langen Iíve built was leaping off the table on its first run and getting it to calm down was a significant issue.

The new overcharge spring is installed; the piston might get high enough to touch it every once in a while but I donít believe it is being a major player in the running of the engine at this point.

The only issue I might address is an annoying ďtapĒ in the governor and if it keeps bothering me I might have to do something about it; for now Iím going to let it be.

The model is running fairly well and the governor is controlling its speed nicely.  It may undergo a few more ďtweaksĒ here and there as inspirations come to me (are models ever really DONE?); but Iím calling this build complete.

N4KeZiejL9A
Title: Re: 3rd Generation Otto Langen
Post by: Johnmcc69 on November 05, 2020, 09:54:46 PM
 :cartwheel:
 Very well done Craig!
 A really interesting engine to watch with all its motions.
 :ThumbsUp:
 John
Title: Re: 3rd Generation Otto Langen
Post by: Jo on November 05, 2020, 10:18:11 PM
 8) That is very nice and it runs well  :ThumbsUp:

Jo
Title: Re: 3rd Generation Otto Langen
Post by: Dave Otto on November 05, 2020, 11:46:22 PM
Beautiful work Craig!
You have it dialed in and running very nice.

Dave
Title: Re: 3rd Generation Otto Langen
Post by: Brian Rupnow on November 06, 2020, 01:07:45 AM
Great work Craig. The governor is very noticeable on the performance of that engine.---Brian
Title: Re: 3rd Generation Otto Langen
Post by: Kim on November 06, 2020, 05:18:27 AM
That's running really nicely, Craig!  Beautiful work!  :cheers:
Kim
Title: Re: 3rd Generation Otto Langen
Post by: kvom on November 06, 2020, 12:55:22 PM
Unless there's a 4G version you'll have to find something new for a project.   :stir:

Great runner for sure.
Title: Re: 3rd Generation Otto Langen
Post by: Craig DeShong on November 06, 2020, 10:25:27 PM
Thanks for your comments.  This one had a few 11th hour issues that needed addressed, but Iím very happy with it now.
Title: Re: 3rd Generation Otto Langen
Post by: Craig DeShong on November 14, 2020, 07:01:48 PM
Before I leave this project and move on to the next (haven't decided what that might be yet); I took a few days to clean up the drawings, gather up some useful information, and have posted the drawings in the "plans" section of this site incase someone in the future wants to build one of these things.

Thanks again for those who followed along through the build, and especially for those who chose to comment.