Model Engine Maker

Engines => From Kits/Castings => Topic started by: Flyboy Jim on October 13, 2019, 05:38:52 PM

Title: Flyboy Jim's PM Research #5
Post by: Flyboy Jim on October 13, 2019, 05:38:52 PM
Here's the official start of my PM Research #5 build.

For various reasons I got stalled out on the build of my Parsell & Weed engine. I was just getting to a tricky part (to me) of the build when I drifted away and was hesitant to try and start up where I left off............ without getting my hand back into the whole machining process first. You see........... there's folks that have, for example, 10 years experience, machining metal. Then there's those of us, like myself, that have 1 years experience, 10 times. It's actually worse in my case, in that I only have 1 years experience, 3 times!  :-\  I'll be spending a certain amount of time reading my own past build threads to get the machining gears turning again.

So ok "motormouth" what does any of that have to do with the title of this thread?  :shrug:

Well, thanks to the generosity of Thomas and Terry, I'm now the proud owner of a PM Research Coke Bottle Engine #5 that was getting "re-homed". https://www.pmmodelengines.com/shop/steam/steam-engines/steam-engine-5/ It's going to be a great project to help get me back to my machine journey here on MEM. What a great group we have here!

My build will be a little bit slow getting started (to be explained soon), but I can still get plenty done before actually cutting metal.

Jim
Title: Re: Flyboy Jim's PM Research #5
Post by: Dave Otto on October 13, 2019, 05:52:53 PM
What are waiting for? lets get going!  :lolb:
Looking forward to following along Jim.

Dave
Title: Re: Flyboy Jim's PM Research #5
Post by: Jo on October 13, 2019, 05:54:20 PM
Lets start this easy Jim, how about you show us your castings  :stickpoke:

Jo
Title: Re: Flyboy Jim's PM Research #5
Post by: crueby on October 13, 2019, 06:14:08 PM
Popcorn is ready.....
Title: Re: Flyboy Jim's PM Research #5
Post by: Flyboy Jim on October 13, 2019, 06:41:20 PM
Lets start this easy Jim, how about you show us your castings  :stickpoke:

Jo

No Problem. Here you go Jo:  :)

(http://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10010/Cast-2.JPG)

So here's my tale of woe:

About the middle of August I fell off my motor scooter (unfortunately is was moving at the time) and broke my ankle. Had surgery to put it back together with a splice plate on Aug. 28. Things were going great for the first 5 days and then a staph infection set in. I spent the next 2 weeks in the hospital having 3 surgeries to get rid of the infection. Wasn't real sure during that time if I was going to leave the hospital with my foot still attached or not. Anyway, they were able to close up about half of the 4" (imperial) incision but was left with about a 1" hole in the side of my ankle. Home for 2 weeks and then back in 9 days ago where a plastic surgeon did a "flap procedure" to fill in the hole. So far so good. That brings me to where I'm at now. The good news is that the bone has been healing all this time.

Right now I have to keep my foot elevated most of the time, but as soon as I can have my foot down for extended times I can get to work in my soon to be set up sit down machine shop. Should be easy with my Sherline equipment.

I'm excited to get going on this new adventure!

Jim
Title: Re: Flyboy Jim's PM Research #5
Post by: Admiral_dk on October 13, 2019, 07:42:28 PM
Ow man - I mean, the bones can be bad enough, but the infection can be a real killer (in more ways than one)  :(

I hope that you get well soon and back to normal mobility  :cheers:

Best wishes

Per
Title: Re: Flyboy Jim's PM Research #5
Post by: crueby on October 13, 2019, 07:49:52 PM
Ouch!

Better that you waited for the flap procedure than just filling it with JB Weld....

Hope the rest of the healing goes well!   :ThumbsUp:
Title: Re: Flyboy Jim's PM Research #5
Post by: Ye-Ole Steam Dude on October 13, 2019, 08:09:44 PM
Hello Jim,

Man some people will do almost anything to keep from having to take out the garbage... :lolb:

Stay off the foot until you are really ready.

Have a great day,
Thomas
Title: Re: Flyboy Jim's PM Research #5
Post by: Kim on October 13, 2019, 10:33:53 PM
Yowsa!  I was just about to leave you a "Good to see you getting back in the shop" post.  But now I'll change it to "It's good to hear your mending well!"

Take care and don't get ahead of yourself.

But when you're ready, I'll be here, popcorn in hand, ready to cheer you on with the Coke Bottle engine!   :popcorn:

Hopefully, you'll be back with both feet on the ground soon!
Kim
Title: Re: Flyboy Jim's PM Research #5
Post by: Dave Otto on October 13, 2019, 10:59:52 PM
Ouch! I shattered my right heal bone in a car wreck back in 1997 so I have an idea what you are going through.
Had a compound fracture and there was some concern about blood flow to the flap. fortunately it healed up ok. I did end up getting it fused a year or so later due to the pain that just never got any better.
After the fusion it hasn't given me any trouble at all.

Rest easy and take care.
Dave 
Title: Re: Flyboy Jim's PM Research #5
Post by: b.lindsey on October 14, 2019, 12:15:43 AM
Oh man, what a bummer Jim. Hope the healing continues well. Looking forward to your #5 build when you can get to it. Hoping I can get back to mine soon too.

Bill
Title: Re: Flyboy Jim's PM Research #5
Post by: Jo on October 14, 2019, 07:25:15 AM
Quote
About the middle of August I fell off my motor scooter
That was a daft thing to do Jim  :facepalm:

While you are recovering you will have plenty of time to do some real casting fondling and we can all look forward to seeing swarf sign  :)

Jo


P.S. Surus wanted me to mention he does not count that photo as a photo of your castings  :ShakeHead:
Title: Re: Flyboy Jim's PM Research #5
Post by: Flyboy Jim on October 14, 2019, 02:25:22 PM
Thank you guys and lady for the well wishes. Also for the gentle reminders not to over do it until healed. I shall make a point of re-reading those comments each morning.......especially now that I'm starting to feel a little friskier each day.

Jim
Title: Re: Flyboy Jim's PM Research #5
Post by: J.L. on October 14, 2019, 03:18:43 PM
Hi Jim,

Your account of the event and the follow up makes me cringe! At least you are still warm and breathing! And you have a very positive outlook.

Good on you.

Take care.

John


Title: Re: Flyboy Jim's PM Research #5
Post by: Flyboy Jim on October 14, 2019, 04:00:55 PM
Hi Jim,

Your account of the event and the follow up makes me cringe! At least you are still warm and breathing! And you have a very positive outlook.

Good on you.

Take care.

John

Thanks John.

I've learned a couple of things from this ordeal. 1). Infection, on this level, can be a really bad thing and 2). When they tell you before surgery that 1 in 1000 can get an infection from the procedure...........you can actually be that 1000th person.  :(

Not to get all "philosophical", but this is one of those times in life I'm forced to sit back, take stock, and decide what I want to do with the rest of my life. I don't think I'm unique in this. I've sensed the same thing in reading between the lines in a lot of threads. Participating in a forum like MEM, where folks just "keep on keeping on", is better than any medication the doctors can prescribe.

Jim

PS: I'm sure by now folks are really hoping my engine kit shows up so I'll actually post something engine related!  :shrug:
Title: Re: Flyboy Jim's PM Research #5
Post by: bent on October 14, 2019, 04:48:30 PM
Ow ow ow.  Get well soon Jim.
Title: Re: Flyboy Jim's PM Research #5
Post by: TerryWerm on October 15, 2019, 03:26:43 AM
All the best to you in this new adventure, Jim!  You should see the castings on your doorstep tomorrow. I too will break out the popcorn and follow along a couple of times per week as time permits. But, as others have already said, take care of that leg and don't overdo it!
Title: Re: Flyboy Jim's PM Research #5
Post by: Flyboy Jim on October 15, 2019, 05:19:40 PM
Thanks Bent and Terry.

Terry, Columbs Day may slow the arrival slightly, but if not today certainly tomorrow.

A neighbor moved some things for me yesterday, so got a start on setting up my sit down Sherline shop. Now after seeing a picture of Chris's work area, I've got a great idea for a roll around-sit down Sherline shop. I want to be able to use it during the winter in my heated woodshop, but also want to be able to roll it out easily if I want to use my power woodworking tools.

Jim
Title: Re: Flyboy Jim's PM Research #5
Post by: Flyboy Jim on October 16, 2019, 02:56:39 AM
Look what showed up in todays mail:

(http://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10010/PMR__5.JPG)

More details tomorrow.

Jim
Title: Re: Flyboy Jim's PM Research #5
Post by: crueby on October 16, 2019, 02:59:46 AM
Oboyoboyoboyoboy!!!
Title: Re: Flyboy Jim's PM Research #5
Post by: Jo on October 16, 2019, 09:12:08 AM
Casting fondling time  :pinkelephant: Why are they still in the box  :noidea:

Jo 
Title: Re: Flyboy Jim's PM Research #5
Post by: MJM460 on October 16, 2019, 11:25:16 AM
Looking good, Jim.  I am looking forward to you you recovering enough to make a start.

But it will also be interesting to see how you plan the build before you actually start cutting metal.

Best wishes for a speedy recovery.

MJM460

Title: Re: Flyboy Jim's PM Research #5
Post by: Flyboy Jim on October 16, 2019, 02:51:56 PM
Casting fondling time  :pinkelephant: Why are they still in the box  :noidea:

Jo

Jo,

Tell Surus that that is todays project.  :) That and get a good look at the plans. That and read some more on Bill's and Eric's build threads. That and more posts here. That and more planning for my roll around Sherline shop. I'm gonna be a busy man today!  :)
.
Jim

PS: Yesterday my plastic surgeon told me to start putting my foot on the floor for short periods to start training it for real life again. "Hey no problem Doc"!  :whoohoo:
Title: Re: Flyboy Jim's PM Research #5
Post by: mike mott on October 16, 2019, 04:40:20 PM
Jim just read about your situation, funny how life sets us up to reevaluate what we really want to do with our time. hope you foot heals up well and that you are mobile again soon. Looks like a nice engine project.

Mike
Title: Re: Flyboy Jim's PM Research #5
Post by: Flyboy Jim on October 18, 2019, 02:49:21 PM
Jim just read about your situation, funny how life sets us up to reevaluate what we really want to do with our time. hope you foot heals up well and that you are mobile again soon. Looks like a nice engine project.

Mike

Thanks Mike. You hit that right on the nail head. I had major surgery 35 years ago. Totally changed my outlook on life. I can already see this present  glitch is changing what I want to do with the REST of my life.

That's where my PMR #5 build comes in. For a long time I've been thinking that I "should" get back to machining, but just couldn't quite get myself going. Then WHAM this PM Research #5 kit drops into my lap. Suddenly the "should" get back to machining turns into I "want" to get back to machining!

Jim

Title: Re: Flyboy Jim's PM Research #5
Post by: Jo on October 18, 2019, 03:30:56 PM
Last we saw those castings they were still in the box   :disappointed: Come on Jim we want to see more of them  :stickpoke:

Just because you can't stand to convert them into swarf doesn't mean we can't discuss their possible machining and any potential issues  :)

Jo
Title: Re: Flyboy Jim's PM Research #5
Post by: Flyboy Jim on October 18, 2019, 04:04:43 PM
Last we saw those castings they were still in the box   :disappointed: Come on Jim we want to see more of them  :stickpoke:

Just because you can't stand to convert them into swarf doesn't mean we can't discuss their possible machining and any potential issues  :)

Jo

 :) I'm working on that post right now, Jo. Believe me there's plenty to discuss, before any swarf flies.

Jim
Title: Re: Flyboy Jim's PM Research #5
Post by: Flyboy Jim on October 18, 2019, 04:22:37 PM
OK...... since I'm getting some ......ah.......input from this certain person across the pond...............lets get something machining related posted!  :atcomputer: Actually..... I think Jo is pretty patient....... but that Surus dude seems kind of pushy.  :Lol: Plus...... he wouldn't even let me count my cast as a casting.  :shrug:

Here's the link to PM Research for my project: https://www.pmmodelengines.com/shop/steam/steam-engines/steam-engine-5/

I've gone through the whole "Kits/Castings" section and was able to find two build threads:

Eric's (aka Cletus......aka TennesseeWhiskey) build: http://www.modelenginemaker.com/index.php/topic,2302.0.html

Bill's (aka Bill) build: http://www.modelenginemaker.com/index.php/topic,8015.0.html

These threads are invaluable to me. Not only for Eric's and Bill's posts, but for all the rest of the helpful info that others have posted. Since I can't do much else right now, I've been taking notes while working my way through them. I can't believe how much I've forgotten during the time I've been away.

I'm also making a list of ......ahem...... a few new tools I might need!   :whoohoo:

Jim

PS: Next post we'll start to look at this kit in more detail. In particular the machining of the "cake bottle" using my Sherline lathe and mill.

 
Title: Re: Flyboy Jim's PM Research #5
Post by: b.lindsey on October 18, 2019, 04:49:17 PM
I will try to get back on mine soon Jim. Your getting me enthused again, now just have to find the time.

Bill
Title: Re: Flyboy Jim's PM Research #5
Post by: Jo on October 19, 2019, 05:51:03 PM
Another 24 hours and still no signs of the castings having escaped the box   :disappointed:

Come on Jim, Surus is chomping at the bit to see these. He is becoming a real pain. And I can't even offer to buy him his own set as the UK supplier doesn't have any  :toilet_claw:

Jo

P.S. Surus hasn't see any cake bottle engines and thinks I have been holding out on him  :facepalm:
Title: Re: Flyboy Jim's PM Research #5
Post by: Flyboy Jim on October 21, 2019, 12:45:24 AM
With help of neighbors who made the mistake of saying "let me know if you need anything", and after seeing the picture of Chris's Sherline shop, I was able to get my prototype shop set up. The bench will eventually be replaced with an adjustable height/roll around bench. That way when I need to use my table saw I can just roll it out of the shop.

(http://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10010/P1030632.JPG)

(http://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10010/P1030631.JPG)

OK Surus, my impatient little friend,  :pinkelephant: here's a picture of the parts out of the box:

(http://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10010/P1030634.JPG)

There weren't as many cast iron (still plenty I'm sure) parts as I thought there might be and they're really nicely done. Plans are nice as well.

I got started doing some fondling and fettling, which will be the subject of my next post (hear that Surus  :pinkelephant:)?

I'm enjoying thinking in "machining" again.

Jim
Title: Re: Flyboy Jim's PM Research #5
Post by: Ye-Ole Steam Dude on October 21, 2019, 01:11:34 AM
Hello Jim,

Very nice layout, is this a part of your hanger.

Have a great day,
Thomas
Title: Re: Flyboy Jim's PM Research #5
Post by: Flyboy Jim on October 21, 2019, 01:31:21 AM
Hello Jim,

Very nice layout, is this a part of your hanger.

Have a great day,
Thomas

Yes it's a 11'x 22' room that's built inside of the hanger. It houses my wood working equipment. It's easy to heat, so I'm wanting to use it in the winter. The hanger itself is heated, but is a large area keep heated to working temperature.

Jim
Title: Re: Flyboy Jim's PM Research #5
Post by: crueby on October 21, 2019, 02:25:00 AM
Nice setup!  ...does look familiar....  :ThumbsUp:
Title: Re: Flyboy Jim's PM Research #5
Post by: b.lindsey on October 21, 2019, 02:31:26 AM
Beautiful setup Jim. I like it a lot!!

Bill
Title: Re: Flyboy Jim's PM Research #5
Post by: Flyboy Jim on October 21, 2019, 02:46:14 AM
Thanks Chris and Bill. You two were the inspiration to start putting this sit down setup together. Was out there until my foot said it's time to stop. I think it's going to work well.

Jim
Title: Re: Flyboy Jim's PM Research #5
Post by: Kim on October 21, 2019, 05:18:03 AM
Nice shop you've got there Jim!
And a nuice set of castings too! :)  :popcorn:
Kim
Title: Re: Flyboy Jim's PM Research #5
Post by: Jo on October 21, 2019, 07:23:04 AM
Thanks that worked thanks Jim   :) Surus is now busy comparing your castings with his so hopefully my life will become a little quieter and I will be allowed to make some swarf.

Looks like you have more castings in the set than I thought :thinking: The quality looks good.


I'm interested to hear about how you might tackle your castings... As you can see we will have some of our own to do one day and if someone thinks he wants a particular engine done I may even be allowed to take them into the workshop to make it ::)

Jo
Title: Re: Flyboy Jim's PM Research #5
Post by: TerryWerm on October 21, 2019, 01:39:36 PM
Jim, it is nice to see how well you are adapting to adverse conditions! There may not be as much delay to this project as you first thought!
Title: Re: Flyboy Jim's PM Research #5
Post by: Flyboy Jim on October 21, 2019, 02:32:14 PM
Thanks that worked thanks Jim   :) Surus is now busy comparing your castings with his so hopefully my life will become a little quieter and I will be allowed to make some swarf.

Looks like you have more castings in the set than I thought :thinking: The quality looks good.


I'm interested to hear about how you might tackle your castings... As you can see we will have some of our own to do one day and if someone thinks he wants a particular engine done I may even be allowed to take them into the workshop to make it ::)

Jo

Glad I could help Jo. We have to take care of our little helpers (or are we actually the helpers while they run the show).  :shrug:

The coke bottle and the base are the first castings I'm going to work with...........at least to the point of doing enough machine work to mount the two together. I gave it a little thought yesterday and will continue that thought process in a post today.

By the way what is the engine you show in the picture? Looks really interesting. Does Surus  :pinkelephant: know you have it? Whoops......just noticed him keeping a close eye on the parts.........he doesn't look too thrilled!


Thanks Terry. It was a huge help getting my shop set up. I've always worked standing up, but can already tell this is going to work just fine.

Jim
Title: Re: Flyboy Jim's PM Research #5
Post by: Jo on October 21, 2019, 03:02:39 PM
By the way what is the engine you show in the picture? Looks really interesting.

That Model Bottle engine is a 1890's Bottle Frame Engine as drawn up by C J Stilson and marketed by Precision Service Company. I am not sure if they actually went into production as my Supplier was commissioned to make the prototypes and to check the drawings out. There were two basic types and the drawings included a few possible personalisations to confuse the builder  :facepalm:


:thinking: The flange on the bottom of the castings look a bit small for gripping in a chuck. What do others think? At least Jim your bottle is made of something solid. Surus' one is made of Cast Bronze so will mark if you even think of touching it, then he'll know I touched it  :facepalm2:

I'd start with the base and see how you get on with sitting at the machines  :paranoia:

Jo

P.S. I can just about get at those castings as Surus is pre-occupied waiting to pounce on the long suffering postman as he is expecting more castings ::)
Title: Re: Flyboy Jim's PM Research #5
Post by: Captain Jerry on October 21, 2019, 03:14:33 PM
Jim


That is a very nice looking shop, just needs a bit of swarf to make it look right.  I like the wood floor. I put wood in my shop a few years ago because concrete is so hard on the feet. A nice side benefit is that when I drop a small part, which I do frequently, it makes a much louder sound hitting the wood and I can even follow the second and third bounce to help find it!


I resorted to a rolling chair several years ago because of leg, back and foot pain, and because of the general fatigue that comes with age.  Now, if I feel good enough to make the short walk to the shop, I can stay there all day. My shop is not as compact as yours so I have to scoot around a bit from lathe to mill to grinder.  I found that the standard 1 1/2 inch casters had a hard time with even a small chip on the floor.  I was able to replace them with larger diameter wheels with a soft tire.  It makes travel much better.  It raised the seat height a bit and that worked out well for me. My 9x20 lathe is mounted on the standard base and and the raised casters made a much better fit.


Leaning over in a chair to pick up a dropped part or tool can be a challenge so I make sure that there is a pair of long nose pliers at each work station.


Congratulations on the nice shop and getting back to it. 


Jerry
Title: Re: Flyboy Jim's PM Research #5
Post by: Flyboy Jim on October 21, 2019, 03:15:35 PM

That Model Bottle engine is a 1890's Bottle Frame Engine as drawn up by C J Stilson and marketed by Precision Service Company. I am not sure if they actually went into production as my Supplier was commissioned to make the prototypes and to check the drawings out. There were two basic types and the drawings included a few possible personalisations to confuse the builder  :facepalm:


:thinking: The flange on the bottom of the castings look a bit small for gripping in a chuck. What do others think? At least Jim your bottle is made of something solid. Surus' one is made of Cast Bronze so will mark if you even think of touching it, then he'll know I touched it  :facepalm2:

I'd start with the base and see how you get on with sitting at the machines  :paranoia:

Jo

P.S. I can just about get at those castings as Surus is pre-occupied waiting to pounce on the long suffering postman as he is expecting more castings ::)

That is a beautiful engine Jo! I hope you can distract Surus long enough to build yours.

I agree in that I'll start with mating the coke bottle to the base. Once that's done accurately I think the rest of the machining will go well.

Jim
Title: Re: Flyboy Jim's PM Research #5
Post by: Flyboy Jim on October 21, 2019, 03:20:58 PM
Jim


That is a very nice looking shop, just needs a bit of swarf to make it look right.  I like the wood floor. I put wood in my shop a few years ago because concrete is so hard on the feet. A nice side benefit is that when I drop a small part, which I do frequently, it makes a much louder sound hitting the wood and I can even follow the second and third bounce to help find it!


I resorted to a rolling chair several years ago because of leg, back and foot pain, and because of the general fatigue that comes with age.  Now, if I feel good enough to make the short walk to the shop, I can stay there all day. My shop is not as compact as yours so I have to scoot around a bit from lathe to mill to grinder.  I found that the standard 1 1/2 inch casters had a hard time with even a small chip on the floor.  I was able to replace them with larger diameter wheels with a soft tire.  It makes travel much better.  It raised the seat height a bit and that worked out well for me. My 9x20 lathe is mounted on the standard base and and the raised casters made a much better fit.


Leaning over in a chair to pick up a dropped part or tool can be a challenge so I make sure that there is a pair of long nose pliers at each work station.


Congratulations on the nice shop and getting back to it. 


Jerry

Thanks for the info Jerry. Hadn't thought about the problem with the small casters. I like the idea of adapting larger wheels to a chair or stool.

I installed the wood floor last winter for the same reasons as you. I really like it.

Jim

PS: This looks interesting: https://www.homedepot.com/p/Toolstud-Adjustable-Shop-Seat-HRAS/202018314
Title: Re: Flyboy Jim's PM Research #5
Post by: Flyboy Jim on October 21, 2019, 11:50:24 PM
The first task at hand is going to be mounting the coke bottle to the base.

(http://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10010/P1030635.JPG)

The aluminum base just needs a little cleanup. The coke bottle itself needs the bottom trued up. The trick will be truing it up so it sits perfectly vertical. The trick to do that trick will be securing it perfectly vertical or possibly horizontally.

The first way I thought of is to get a "Horizontal Milling Conversion" for my Sherline mill: https://sherline.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/12/6100inst.pdf If used in the "B" position I could mount the coke bottle horizontally which I think would be pretty stable.

I then tried it in my milling vice. It was actually more stable than I thought it would be, but still not the greatest.

(http://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10010/P1030636.JPG)

Next since my 4 jaw chuck was handy I tried it. Way more stable.

(http://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10010/P1030637.JPG)

Next up was my 3 jaw self centering chuck. I could mount it on the mill table perfectly centered under the spindle. If the top of the coke bottle is cast fairly accurate (looks like it is) that would get the top end in perfect position. That would just (easy to say) leave getting the base centered under the spindle. I read on Eric's build thread about filling the center of the bottom with wood in order to be able to mark the center.....so I'll explore that option.

(http://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10010/P1030638.JPG)

Jim

Title: Re: Flyboy Jim's PM Research #5
Post by: crueby on October 22, 2019, 01:34:11 AM
Given the choice between 3 and 4 jaw, I'd go with the 4-jaw, have found that it can be tightened down more, and holds more securely than the 3-jaw. Also, you can put a hold-down clamp into the slot around the rim (the screw adapter or the rotary table came with one, I think) that will keep it from un-screwing itself from the table, very important when milling!

Another option is to turn the mill vise on its side to grip the casting, though it may be too rough to work well.


However it is secured, use light cuts - that is a lot of leverage up to the base of the casting.

You mention getting the base perfectly centered to mill the bottom flat. Why? The base just has to be flat and perpendicular to the rest, why does it have to be centered?

 :popcorn: :popcorn: :popcorn:
Title: Re: Flyboy Jim's PM Research #5
Post by: Dave Otto on October 22, 2019, 02:06:38 AM
Hey Jim

I have retrofitted both of my shop chairs to polyurethane wheels, they are about the size of roller blade wheels and not too terribly expensive; and they work great!
https://www.amazon.com/s?k=office+chair+wheels+for+hardwood+floors&crid=2XC6QY8WTV083&sprefix=office+chair+wheel%2Caps%2C218&ref=nb_sb_ss_i_2_18

Dave
Title: Re: Flyboy Jim's PM Research #5
Post by: Flyboy Jim on October 22, 2019, 02:19:28 AM
Given the choice between 3 and 4 jaw, I'd go with the 4-jaw, have found that it can be tightened down more, and holds more securely than the 3-jaw. Also, you can put a hold-down clamp into the slot around the rim (the screw adapter or the rotary table came with one, I think) that will keep it from un-screwing itself from the table, very important when milling!

Another option is to turn the mill vise on its side to grip the casting, though it may be too rough to work well.


However it is secured, use light cuts - that is a lot of leverage up to the base of the casting.

You mention getting the base perfectly centered to mill the bottom flat. Why? The base just has to be flat and perpendicular to the rest, why does it have to be centered?

 :popcorn: :popcorn: :popcorn:

My reasoning for centering was that if the top was centered and the bottom was centered then the piece must be vertical. The 4 jaw does seem better for all the reasons you listed and I'll go that way. I just need to figure out how to ensure the casting is vertical. I might be over thinking this........not the first time!   :thinking:

Definitely very light cuts.

Jim

Title: Re: Flyboy Jim's PM Research #5
Post by: Flyboy Jim on October 22, 2019, 02:22:06 AM
Hey Jim

I have retrofitted both of my shop chairs to polyurethane wheels, they are about the size of roller blade wheels and not too terribly expensive; and they work great!
https://www.amazon.com/s?k=office+chair+wheels+for+hardwood+floors&crid=2XC6QY8WTV083&sprefix=office+chair+wheel%2Caps%2C218&ref=nb_sb_ss_i_2_18

Dave

Those look great Dave, thanks.

Jim
Title: Re: Flyboy Jim's PM Research #5
Post by: Dave Otto on October 22, 2019, 03:09:09 AM
Another option would be to mount it to the mill table bottom side down with some shims to bring it into plumb. This could be verified using a precision square and the parting line of the casting. Then a clean up cut can be made on the upper surface. Then flip it over and skim the bottom. You could do it in stages incase some adjustments need to be made.

I would need to go back and look but I think this is how I did the bottle frame on my Pacific engine.

Dave
Title: Re: Flyboy Jim's PM Research #5
Post by: Dave Otto on October 22, 2019, 03:15:05 AM
It starts at post 31 on my build, as I indicate I didnít take any pictures of the initial setup; but it was pretty much as I described above.

Dave
Title: Re: Flyboy Jim's PM Research #5
Post by: Flyboy Jim on October 22, 2019, 03:21:51 AM
Another option would be to mount it to the mill table bottom side down with some shims to bring it into plumb. This could be verified using a precision square and the parting line of the casting. Then a clean up cut can be made on the upper surface. Then flip it over and skim the bottom. You could do it in stages incase some adjustments need to be made.

I would need to go back and look but I think this is how I did the bottle frame on my Pacific engine.

Dave

That's a good idea Dave. I do have a some extra material to work with.

Jim
Title: Re: Flyboy Jim's PM Research #5
Post by: Jo on October 22, 2019, 07:38:10 AM
Surus mentioned before you start milling anything you might want to do some Casting fondling :pinkelephant: and find the centre line down the casting so that when you mount it you will know that it is going end up with the ends matching the main bottle shape.  There is one centre to find down the open side and one down the solid side with the casting line (which could be slightly off the centre line).   You might also consider a little fettling first to make it easier to hold/mark the casting   :)

Edit: I like Dave's idea of milling the top and bottom flat by clamping the bottle on its side to the milling machine base  :thinking: How about bolting an angle plate to the milling table and clamping the casting vertically against that rather than trusting on just holding the bottom of the casting ... The casting is rather tall and if it moved while milling  :paranoia:

Jo
Title: Re: Flyboy Jim's PM Research #5
Post by: Flyboy Jim on October 22, 2019, 09:26:24 AM
Surus mentioned before you start milling anything you might want to do some Casting fondling :pinkelephant: and find the centre line down the casting so that when you mount it you will know that it is going end up with the ends matching the main bottle shape.  There is one centre to find down the open side and one down the solid side with the casting line (which could be slightly off the centre line).   You might also consider a little fettling first to make it easier to hold/mark the casting   :)

Edit: I like Dave's idea of milling the top and bottom flat by clamping the bottle on its side to the milling machine base  :thinking: How about bolting an angle plate to the milling table and clamping the casting vertically against that rather than trusting on just holding the bottom of the casting ... The casting is rather tall and if it moved while milling  :paranoia:

Jo

Thanks for the input Surus.  :pinkelephant: If I can ever find one, I'll send you a cast iron peanut to fondle.  :LickLips:

Jo, if there's one thing I have right now, it's plenty of time for casting fondling and fettling! I enjoy this kind of challenge, so will spend a lot of time figuring out the best approach and experimenting with setups. I really appreciate all the great input.

Jim
Title: Re: Flyboy Jim's PM Research #5
Post by: Flyboy Jim on October 23, 2019, 02:41:14 AM
Another option would be to mount it to the mill table bottom side down with some shims to bring it into plumb. This could be verified using a precision square and the parting line of the casting. Then a clean up cut can be made on the upper surface. Then flip it over and skim the bottom. You could do it in stages incase some adjustments need to be made.

I would need to go back and look but I think this is how I did the bottle frame on my Pacific engine.

Dave

Dave, I played with your option today. Following Chris's suggestion, I mounted my 4 jaw chuck on my mill table, I machined both the top and bottom flat with the coke bottle fairly plumb. Now I've got a flat surface top and bottom which will make it much easier to use shims to get it perfectly plumb. I've got about 1/8" of material to remove, so lots of material to work with.

Felt good to make some swarf!

Jim
Title: Re: Flyboy Jim's PM Research #5
Post by: crueby on October 23, 2019, 02:50:46 AM
Picture!!!  Picture!!!   
Title: Re: Flyboy Jim's PM Research #5
Post by: Flyboy Jim on October 23, 2019, 02:55:50 AM
Picture!!!  Picture!!!

Darn .......I knew I forgot something!  :shrug: It did feel somewhat like a momentous occasion!

I think I need to get a face shield. It was a little un-nerving sitting in front of the fly cutter (in fact I ended up doing the one legged stand for most of the operation!

Jim
Title: Re: Flyboy Jim's PM Research #5
Post by: crueby on October 23, 2019, 03:09:52 AM
On my Sherline I have several rectangular pieces of plexi that are handy shields, depending on the setup I pick a size that I can tape to the headstock to block chips. Also have leather apron and face shield when needed.
Title: Re: Flyboy Jim's PM Research #5
Post by: Flyboy Jim on October 25, 2019, 01:13:14 AM
Got a little more "machine fettling" done today.

The opening at the top of the coke bottle was just under .625" so, since I didn't have a .625 reamer, used a .625" drill and drilled it out to true the hole up. The finished size will be .750".

(https://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10010/P1030639.JPG)

I then turned a friction fit plug and center drilled it.

(https://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10010/P1030651.JPG)

(https://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10010/P1030650.JPG)

Now I can use a center drill to locate the plug and thus the top of the coke bottle directly under the spindle.

(https://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10010/P1030644.JPG)

Next up is to locate the center of the bottom. I'm thinking I'll fit a plug (probably wood) to it as well.

(https://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10010/P1030652.JPG)

Jim
Title: Re: Flyboy Jim's PM Research #5
Post by: crueby on October 25, 2019, 02:13:11 AM
Excellent! 


 :popcorn: :popcorn: :popcorn:
Title: Re: Flyboy Jim's PM Research #5
Post by: b.lindsey on October 25, 2019, 02:26:06 AM
Great to see more progress Jim. Any hard places in that CI casting?

Bill
Title: Re: Flyboy Jim's PM Research #5
Post by: Flyboy Jim on October 25, 2019, 02:42:40 AM
Great to see more progress Jim. Any hard places in that CI casting?

Bill

So far I've just skimmed little off the top and bottom, but no issues so far.

Jim
Title: Re: Flyboy Jim's PM Research #5
Post by: Jo on October 25, 2019, 07:35:34 AM
Swarf, swarf  :pinkelephant:

Jo
Title: Re: Flyboy Jim's PM Research #5
Post by: Ye-Ole Steam Dude on October 25, 2019, 11:52:48 AM
Good morning Jim,

Nice to see a bit of progress, just make sure that you take care of that foot.

Have a great day,
Thomas
Title: Re: Flyboy Jim's PM Research #5
Post by: Flyboy Jim on October 25, 2019, 08:24:04 PM
Good morning Jim,

Nice to see a bit of progress, just make sure that you take care of that foot.

Have a great day,
Thomas

Thanks All.

Thomas, I had an appointment with the plastic surgeon yesterday and the orthopedic surgeon this morning. All is healing as it should (compared to a month ago when nothing was going right).

I should be able to put in a couple of hours each day in the shop working on the #5. I'm enjoying figuring out how to get a foothold on machining the coke bottle. Eric's build thread has been a huge help in that process.

Jim
Title: Re: Flyboy Jim's PM Research #5
Post by: Flyboy Jim on October 27, 2019, 11:34:05 PM
I got in a couple of hours out in the shop today.

Continuing with the "machine fettling" of the coke bottle frame, I was able to mill the base so it stood nice and vertical. Sorry about the dark pictures. I only had my cellphone in the shop today.

(https://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10010/IMG_0910.JPG)

Once I had gained that foothold, I mounted my fixture plate to the mill table and secured the base to it. Then I could mill the top.

(https://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10010/IMG_0913.JPG)

I'm not at the final dimensions yet, but I now have some accurate surfaces to work with. Also after reading about Eric's problem with the lower crankshaft bearing I checked and the unmilled surface is equal height on each side.

(https://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10010/IMG_0914.JPG)

So far so good!

Jim
Title: Re: Flyboy Jim's PM Research #5
Post by: crueby on October 27, 2019, 11:58:11 PM
 :popcornsmall:
 :popcorn: :popcorn: :popcorn:
Title: Re: Flyboy Jim's PM Research #5
Post by: Flyboy Jim on October 29, 2019, 01:50:04 AM
Got a little more done this afternoon.

Cleaned up the aluminum base. Located and spot drilled the mounting holes. Then drilled to final size. I didn't go by the location of the holes as marked on the base. Instead I went by the dimensions as shown on the plans. Not really necessary for these holes, but good practice for when I drill the holes for mounting the frame to the base.

(https://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10010/P1030653.JPG)

(https://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10010/P1030654.JPG)

Jim
Title: Re: Flyboy Jim's PM Research #5
Post by: J.L. on October 30, 2019, 09:17:04 PM
Good on you Jim for taking a crack each day with this project in light of the healing process and its complications.  :ThumbsUp:

John
Title: Re: Flyboy Jim's PM Research #5
Post by: Flyboy Jim on October 31, 2019, 01:49:30 AM
Good on you Jim for taking a crack each day with this project in light of the healing process and its complications.  :ThumbsUp:

John

Thanks John. I'm getting a little more time in out in the shop each day.

Jim
Title: Re: Flyboy Jim's PM Research #5
Post by: Flyboy Jim on November 01, 2019, 02:09:11 AM
A little more time in the shop today.

After trying a couple of setups yesterday that didn't work so well, I had a great idea (too bad it was at 3:00 in the morning last night).  I centered my rotary table under the spindle and then mounted my fixture plate to it. Using the center drill that I had drilled the bushing, which I had turned to fit the hole in the top of the frame, I was able to center the top of the frame. With things slightly loose at the top, the base (which was already flattened), the base settled into position. Then securely clamped the base down. Got all carried away and figured out how to check the alignment of the top thru the full rotation of the RT with my dial test indicator. Totally unnecessary, but fun to play with! If you look closely at the milling around the circumference of the top you can see the results of my failed attempt from yesterday.

(https://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10010/P1030667.JPG)

(https://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10010/P1030668.JPG)

Anyway, I had a rigid setup and was able to mill the circumference of the top to spec.  :whoohoo:

I think I will leave this setup in place and mill the recess for the head and drill the mounting holes. Maybe even mill the bore. That presents another problem which I'll discuss soon.

(https://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10010/P1030669.JPG)

I hope this explanation makes sense.................I'm not too sure about it myself!  :shrug:

Jim
Title: Re: Flyboy Jim's PM Research #5
Post by: Admiral_dk on November 01, 2019, 12:19:30 PM
Looks to me like you are on the right track  :cheers:

 :popcorn:
Title: Re: Flyboy Jim's PM Research #5
Post by: b.lindsey on November 01, 2019, 12:43:47 PM
Looking great Jim. You must have the extended column on your mill to have that much headroom.

Bill
Title: Re: Flyboy Jim's PM Research #5
Post by: Flyboy Jim on November 01, 2019, 01:09:11 PM
Looking great Jim. You must have the extended column on your mill to have that much headroom.

Bill

Admiral and Bill.

Yes, I do have the extended column ................. it's really been paying off on this project.

Jim
Title: Re: Flyboy Jim's PM Research #5
Post by: Flyboy Jim on November 12, 2019, 03:27:19 AM
Continuing to move along at my glacial pace.

I needed to bore the casting at 3/4" diameter for a length of 2 1/2". My Sherline boring bits were to short and my Arthur Warner lathe bit was too long, so I ordered a new boring bit from Shars with the intent of cutting it to the length I needed. I had enough Z to pull this operation off by 1/16".  :whoohoo:

(https://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10010/P1030675.JPG)!

I was successful and I as far as I can tell the bore is the same diameter for the entire length.

(https://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10010/P1030676.JPG)

It's even round!

(https://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10010/P1030677.JPG)

Tooled up with a 3/8" end mill and trued up the top surface..............which was off by a few thou.

(https://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10010/P1030680.JPG)

Then set up and milled the recess for the cylinder

(https://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10010/P1030681.JPG)

Next up is drilling the holes for mounting the cylinder.

Jim
Title: Re: Flyboy Jim's PM Research #5
Post by: gbritnell on November 12, 2019, 04:08:26 AM
I have built a couple of PM's models and while I find them nicely done and supplied I just wish they would allow a little more finish stock on the castings.
gbritnell
Title: Re: Flyboy Jim's PM Research #5
Post by: crueby on November 12, 2019, 04:44:17 AM
Excellent!!   :popcorn:
Title: Re: Flyboy Jim's PM Research #5
Post by: b.lindsey on November 12, 2019, 01:44:12 PM
I found that bore to be one of the trickier operations. Nicely done, especially on the Sherline!!

Bill
Title: Re: Flyboy Jim's PM Research #5
Post by: Flyboy Jim on November 12, 2019, 02:07:26 PM
I found that bore to be one of the trickier operations. Nicely done, especially on the Sherline!!

Bill

Thanks Bill and Chris..

Machining this casting has been quite the challenge for both my Sherline mill and the operator.  :thinking: Very enjoyable.

Since you both are my "unofficial Sherline mentors" I spend a lot of time reading you two's Sherline build threads. Actually, I reread my own as well, since I can't always remember how I did some particular operation (something to do with that "CRAST" disease).  :shrug:

Jim
Title: Re: Flyboy Jim's PM Research #5
Post by: crueby on November 12, 2019, 04:08:15 PM
 :happyreader: I do the same thing sometimes - know that I made a part like that once....   :headscratch:

 :popcorn: :popcorn:
Title: Re: Flyboy Jim's PM Research #5
Post by: bent on November 12, 2019, 09:41:21 PM
Hmm, nice approach.  I think I'd use a boring head for the recess, but only because I don't have a rotary table...yet.  :popcorn:
Title: Re: Flyboy Jim's PM Research #5
Post by: Flyboy Jim on November 13, 2019, 02:30:15 AM
Hmm, nice approach.  I think I'd use a boring head for the recess, but only because I don't have a rotary table...yet.  :popcorn:

I thought about using the boring head also, but found it difficult to adjust in small increments to the exact circumference I needed. Getting the bore to the exact size I needed was a challenge. It worked out great though. I got it to .002" less than the .750" I needed, so decided not to press my luck. With the end mill I could mill out to the exact circumference I needed. Then I took .010" bites at a time and just went around and around until I got the recess to a depth of .062.

I hope you're able to get a RT soon. It really does open up a whole new realm of machining possibilities!

Jim

 
Title: Re: Flyboy Jim's PM Research #5
Post by: mike mott on November 13, 2019, 02:59:52 PM
Nicely done on the boring and facing Jim. I'm impressed with that much distance away from the clamped surface that the casting was rigid enough to do the recess without some form of supplementary support. Of course nothing to say about your skill in pulling it off. :whoohoo:

Mike

 
Title: Re: Flyboy Jim's PM Research #5
Post by: Flyboy Jim on November 15, 2019, 04:07:06 AM
Nicely done on the boring and facing Jim. I'm impressed with that much distance away from the clamped surface that the casting was rigid enough to do the recess without some form of supplementary support. Of course nothing to say about your skill in pulling it off. :whoohoo:

Mike

Thanks Mike,

If the bore needs some additional truing, I might be able to use these hand reamers that I bought at an estate sale a while back. That is, if they'll work with cast iron and if I actually learn how to use them!  :shrug: Need to learn more.

(https://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10010/P1030683.JPG)

Decided not to drill for the cylinder, at this point, since there are some critical alignment requirements that need to be met and I'm not sure how to factor those in yet. Don't want to back myself into a corner.

So I mounted the top of the frame in the 4 jaw and took a light (very light) cuts on the base to finish truing it up (was only a few thousands off, relative to the top).

(https://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10010/P1030685.JPG)

Did a little milling of the sides of the base in preparation for drilling the holes for mounting the frame to the base. 

Not a lot of progress...........but progress just the same.

Jim
Title: Re: Flyboy Jim's PM Research #5
Post by: mike mott on November 15, 2019, 05:55:29 AM
Nice work there Jim. Those reamers aren't to shabby either.

Mike
Title: Re: Flyboy Jim's PM Research #5
Post by: crueby on November 15, 2019, 01:24:39 PM
Great progress Jim.  When you do get to boring the cylinder, I would suggest holding it by the top end so you can bore the cylinder and true the base in one chucking.
Title: Re: Flyboy Jim's PM Research #5
Post by: Flyboy Jim on November 15, 2019, 02:06:25 PM
Great progress Jim.  When you do get to boring the cylinder, I would suggest holding it by the top end so you can bore the cylinder and true the base in one chucking.

Thanks Mike and Chris. Also thanks for the tip Chris, I've got it duly noted.  :ThumbsUp: While going through Bill's build thread, I've noticed that there's a lot of operations needed for the cylinder. At least it's bronze and not cast iron.  :whoohoo:

Speaking of cast iron. I was milling (or trying to mill) the mold seam mark on the edge of the base (you can see it in the last picture above). Man is that little nub hard!  :wallbang: Might be time too order that Foredom system I've always wanted.  :cartwheel:

Jim
Title: Re: Flyboy Jim's PM Research #5
Post by: Hans on November 15, 2019, 03:43:01 PM
Jim, I would hit that seam with a 4-1/2" grinder.

~Hans
Title: Re: Flyboy Jim's PM Research #5
Post by: bent on November 15, 2019, 07:01:09 PM
Was going to say the same as Hans, but I'd use a stone on a dremel tool, or a hand stone, or a file and take the fins/gates/parting lines off.  That's called fettling...or fondling if you're Jo. ;D
Title: Re: Flyboy Jim's PM Research #5
Post by: crueby on November 15, 2019, 07:07:54 PM
Second grinders/sanders on those, hard spots/sand/etc can really chew a mill up.


Now, if you NEED an excuse to by another tool like the Foredom, I'll back you up that its a good reason!   ::)

I do have another brand flex shaft tool, also have a Foredom that I picked up later. The off brand one has worked well for many years, it just chews through brushes on the motor faster than I'd like. Still working though! Very handy tools for carving work. I don't use it much for the engines, tend to use the 1" belt sander for those things. Another nice one is the little air-powered handpieces like the TurboCarver, which takes dental burs, runs around 400,000 rpm. Not for removing lots of material, but great for fine detailing, I use it for shaping valve ports.
Title: Re: Flyboy Jim's PM Research #5
Post by: b.lindsey on November 15, 2019, 07:42:49 PM
I'll second the thoughts on Foredom. Quality stuff, not cheap as you know, but worth in in my opinion. Much like Sherline, they take a system view so things work together well

Bill
Title: Re: Flyboy Jim's PM Research #5
Post by: Flyboy Jim on November 16, 2019, 02:30:18 AM
Now, if you NEED an excuse to by another tool like the Foredom, I'll back you up that its a good reason!   ::)

Yes..............nothing  like having a good "enabler" for a friend!  :ThumbsUp:   :lolb:

Jim
Title: Re: Flyboy Jim's PM Research #5
Post by: Flyboy Jim on November 17, 2019, 03:15:49 AM
Continuing on .......I got the mounting holes drilled in the frame.

(https://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10010/P1030686.JPG)

Then drilled and tapped the base.

(https://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10010/P1030687.JPG)

(https://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10010/P1030688.JPG)

Family shot..............a really small family!  :shrug:

(https://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10010/normal_P1030689.JPG)

(https://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10010/P1030691.JPG)

Now that I have the frame accurate at both ends I think it's time to start on the crosshead casting and see if my bore turned out as accurate as I think it did.  :thinking:

Jim
Title: Re: Flyboy Jim's PM Research #5
Post by: b.lindsey on November 17, 2019, 01:33:43 PM
More nice work Jim. Before long I will be looking to your thread for guidance ...these days shop time is definitely hard to find...but thoroughly enjoying your build.

Bill
Title: Re: Flyboy Jim's PM Research #5
Post by: Flyboy Jim on November 17, 2019, 02:24:42 PM
More nice work Jim. Before long I will be looking to your thread for guidance ...these days shop time is definitely hard to find...but thoroughly enjoying your build.

Bill

Thanks Bill. Getting control of the cast iron frame has certainly been a process (enjoyable) for me. Now I'm looking forward to just ( :lolb:) adding parts until it starts running.  :Lol:

Your build thread (using the same machines) has been (and will continue to be) a huge help. As is your P & W thread.

Jim

 
Title: Re: Flyboy Jim's PM Research #5
Post by: Kim on November 17, 2019, 05:54:32 PM
...these days shop time is definitely hard to find...

Bill
Maybe you should go back to work, Bill!  Retirement doesn't seem to be giving you much shop time! :)

Enjoying your build, Jim!  :popcorn:
Kim
Title: Re: Flyboy Jim's PM Research #5
Post by: Flyboy Jim on November 19, 2019, 03:35:40 AM
I pulled the risers off of my lathe today and got started on the Crosshead casting. Nice to be working with bronze. Set it up in the 4 jaw and indicated it as close as I could.

(https://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10010/P1030692.JPG)

Turned the shaft to .250 as called out.


(https://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10010/P1030693.JPG)

(https://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10010/P1030694.JPG)

Drilled and tapped for the linkage rod.

(https://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10010/P1030696.JPG)

Reversed the casting and turned it down to fit the bore in the frame. It fits right nicely.  :whoohoo:

(https://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10010/P1030697.JPG)

(https://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10010/P1030699.JPG)

Feels good to be back doing some lathe work.

Jim
Title: Re: Flyboy Jim's PM Research #5
Post by: crueby on November 19, 2019, 04:22:32 AM
 :whoohoo:




I've noticed that you use collets in both your lathe and mill. Which type, and how much range does each collet have, above or below each nominal size? Do the sizes meet, or does the stock have to be right on the collet size?
Title: Re: Flyboy Jim's PM Research #5
Post by: Ye-Ole Steam Dude on November 19, 2019, 09:01:03 AM
Hello Jim,

Looking real good and enjoying following your "process" for each part.

Have a great day,
Thomas
Title: Re: Flyboy Jim's PM Research #5
Post by: Flyboy Jim on November 19, 2019, 02:18:27 PM
:whoohoo:




I've noticed that you use collets in both your lathe and mill. Which type, and how much range does each collet have, above or below each nominal size? Do the sizes meet, or does the stock have to be right on the collet size?

Thanks Chris and Thomas. It's good to be back to machining.....................even if it does go rather slow.................not being able to walk yet. That should end soon. I'm 12 weeks since the initial surgery to splice my fibia back together, so should get signed off for weight bearing this Friday when I see the orthopedic surgeon.

Chris, to answer your question, the collet you see in the last photo I posted is the 1/4" one out of this Sherline set:  https://www.sherline.com/product/30603090-mill-collet-sets/ They have very little adjustment.
The ER-16 collet holder that I use most of the time is a Taig lathe accessory: https://taigtools.com/product/er-16-adapter-for-3-4-16-spindle/ I had to machine a small shoulder off in order for it to work with the Sherline spindle.
I found a good price on Amazon for a set of Royal collets:  https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B004HW7MA8/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_asin_title_o07_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1 I see they're no longer available, but there are others out there..........just so they're fairly good ones. Mine go from 1/16" to 3/8" in 1/32" steps and have enough adjustment to work for anything (IE the sizes meet). I noticed that, for some reason, some of the sets I looked at left one of the sizes out (can't remember which one) so left a gap.

Beall makes an ER-32 collet chuck that looks interesting: http://www.bealltool.com/products/turning/colletchuck.php

Jim
Title: Re: Flyboy Jim's PM Research #5
Post by: Flyboy Jim on November 21, 2019, 02:52:42 AM
Continuing on with the Crosshead. Mounted it in my 5C collet block and leveled it.

(https://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10010/P1030700.JPG)

Mounted the collet bock in my vise and drilled and reamed to 3/32" as called out.

(https://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10010/P1030702.JPG)

(https://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10010/normal_P1030703.JPG)

Milled the shoulder flat on both sides.

(https://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10010/P1030704.JPG)

Next up is the slot for the connecting rod.

Jim
Title: Re: Flyboy Jim's PM Research #5
Post by: Flyboy Jim on November 24, 2019, 02:51:32 AM
Continuing on, stood the collet block on end and milled the slot for the connecting rod. Gotta get some better lighting for pictures.

(https://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10010/P1030706.JPG)

Machined a filing button in order to file the half rounds, although I never did file down to it. Should of made it a little larger.

(https://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10010/P1030707.JPG)

A little cleanup and I'm calling this part done.  :cartwheel:

(https://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10010/P1030709.JPG)

Jim

PS: Got the ok yesterday to start bearing some weight on my right ankle using a walker.  :whoohoo: It's nice to be standing on my own 6 legs!
Title: Re: Flyboy Jim's PM Research #5
Post by: b.lindsey on November 24, 2019, 04:08:05 AM
Good news on the ankle  :ThumbsUp: Nice work on that crosshead too!!

Bill
Title: Re: Flyboy Jim's PM Research #5
Post by: Kim on November 24, 2019, 05:40:21 AM
Nice filing button, Jim! That is interesting how you did that - with just one filing button.  I've always made two - one for either side.  But this seemed to work pretty well for you.  I'll have to keep that in mind. :)

Great to hear you can start putting weight on your ankle!  You you just have to build up slowly.  Don't over do it!  Do what the good doctor tells you, right?  :ThumbsUp:

Kim
Title: Re: Flyboy Jim's PM Research #5
Post by: Roger B on November 24, 2019, 08:42:28 AM
That's some nice work  :ThumbsUp:  :ThumbsUp:  The hand reamers you mention in post 83 are actually Acrolaps or equivalent:

http://acrolaps.com/index.htm

I use then with diamond paste for finishing my cylinders but you need an ultrasonic bath for cleaning afterwards. I am sure that other abrasives will work I just haven't tried them.
Title: Re: Flyboy Jim's PM Research #5
Post by: Flyboy Jim on November 27, 2019, 03:15:25 AM
Thanks Guys.

Kim, the filing button was actually a little small, but it still helped to keep each side uniform as I filed them.

Roger, thanks for the info on Acrolaps. These seem to be a brand X, but are pretty nice and I think will be helpful once I learn how to use them.

I got started on the Lower Head Casting.

Turned the shoulder to fit into the mainframe.

(https://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10010/P1030710.JPG)

Drilled and reamed for the piston rod and the the packing gland.

(https://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10010/P1030713.JPG)

(https://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10010/P1030714.JPG)

Turned the Lower Head Casting around and trued the face and turned to the correct diameter to fit into the recess in the mainframe.

(https://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10010/P1030716.JPG)

That left a small area that couldn't be turned to the correct diameter to I made a mandrel to hold it while I turned that bit of metal off.

(https://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10010/P1030717.JPG)

(https://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10010/P1030718.JPG)

(https://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10010/P1030719.JPG)

Everything fits so far. I'll show a picture of that in the next post.

Jim
Title: Re: Flyboy Jim's PM Research #5
Post by: TerryWerm on November 28, 2019, 05:09:04 PM
Nice to see the great progress you are making!  It's been almost three weeks since I checked in here, so I had some catching up to do, but I am really enjoying your build.

I was going to comment about your 'reamers' being laps, but Roger beat me to it, so no need to say more about them.

Happy Thanksgiving!
Title: Re: Flyboy Jim's PM Research #5
Post by: Flyboy Jim on November 29, 2019, 04:14:05 AM
Nice to see the great progress you are making!  It's been almost three weeks since I checked in here, so I had some catching up to do, but I am really enjoying your build.

I was going to comment about your 'reamers' being laps, but Roger beat me to it, so no need to say more about them.

Happy Thanksgiving!

Thanks Terry. Certainly not rapid progress, but I'm moving in a forward direction and enjoying myself.

Yes Roger set me straight on my lap set. Not a lot of info about them, but I did find this post that Brian made a while back: http://www.modelenginemaker.com/index.php?topic=4113.0
Also this one by Ramon: http://www.modelenginemaker.com/index.php/topic,1908.0.html

Happy Thanksgiving to you as well.

Jim
Title: Re: Flyboy Jim's PM Research #5
Post by: Flyboy Jim on December 01, 2019, 04:20:59 AM
As I mentioned in the last post, here's a pic of the Lower Head Casting sitting in the Main Frame.

(https://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10010/P1030721.JPG)

Turned, drilled and reamed the Packing Gland out of bar stock.

(https://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10010/P1030723.JPG)

Centered the RT on the mill and moved the chuck over. Drilled the mounting holes in the Packing Gland

(https://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10010/P1030726.JPG)

Moved the chuck back to the lathe and parted off the Packing Gland.

(https://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10010/P1030727.JPG)

Mounted the Lower Head Casting on the arbor, put it in the 3 jaw and mounted the chuck on the RT. Drilled and tapped the mounting holes for the Packing Gland.

(https://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10010/P1030729.JPG)

While it was there I drilled the mounting holes.

(https://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10010/P1030730.JPG)

It's nice to see a few parts that will become an assembly.

(https://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10010/P1030731.JPG)

(https://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10010/P1030734.JPG)

There's still a little machining to do to the Lower Head Casting, which I'll do later.

Jim

Title: Re: Flyboy Jim's PM Research #5
Post by: crueby on December 01, 2019, 02:32:32 PM
 :popcorn: :popcorn: :popcorn:
Title: Re: Flyboy Jim's PM Research #5
Post by: b.lindsey on December 01, 2019, 02:34:58 PM
Coming along great Jim!! Still enjoying following your progress.

Bill
Title: Re: Flyboy Jim's PM Research #5
Post by: Dave Otto on December 01, 2019, 04:32:04 PM
Nice work Jim, everything looks great!

Dave
Title: Re: Flyboy Jim's PM Research #5
Post by: Kim on December 01, 2019, 05:59:24 PM
Great work on all those little brass parts, JIM!  :popcorn:
Kim
Title: Re: Flyboy Jim's PM Research #5
Post by: Flyboy Jim on December 08, 2019, 03:46:47 AM
Thanks guys.

Got a little work done on the Cylinder Head.

Clamped it in the 4 jaw and turned the bottom flat.

(https://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10010/P1030735.JPG)

Reversed it in the chuck and moved the chuck to the mill on the RT. Drilled the mounting holes.

(https://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10010/P1030737.JPG)

Then, using Bill's idea in his build thread, I turned an arbor, drilled and threaded mounting holes to match the holes in the Cylinder Head.  I was then able to mount the Head on the arbor in the 3 jaw and turn the OD.

(https://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10010/P1030740.JPG)

Jim
Title: Re: Flyboy Jim's PM Research #5
Post by: Flyboy Jim on December 15, 2019, 04:41:25 AM
The next operation on the Cylinder Head was to turn it back around in the chuck and machine the required recess. The cutters I had on hand wouldn't work (shown on the left) so I treated myself (early Christmas present to myself) to a set of Arthur Warner 35 degree left and right profile cutters (shown on the right). They worked great!


(https://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10010/P1030749.JPG)

First I turned the outside of the recess.

(https://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10010/P1030741.JPG)

Then the inside.

(https://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10010/P1030742.JPG)

These cutters left a slightly rounded corner so I used a groover to square it up.

(https://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10010/P1030743.JPG)

The height of the boss (?) in the middle needed to be reduced, so I did that next.

(https://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10010/P1030744.JPG)

All done. Just needs a cylinder to mount it on. I'll work on that next.

(https://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10010/P1030745.JPG)

(https://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10010/P1030747.JPG)

Jim
Title: Re: Flyboy Jim's PM Research #5
Post by: b.lindsey on December 15, 2019, 01:31:49 PM
Can't go wrong with Warner tooling Jim. Glad Santa found you a bit early this year.

Bill
Title: Re: Flyboy Jim's PM Research #5
Post by: bent on December 16, 2019, 06:26:10 PM
I like those 35 degree inserts too Jim.  Used one for a custom repair tool we made for the shop, and it worked beautifully.  Will have to look up those Warner tools, got a link?  Oh and nice work on the heads, still following along :)
Title: Re: Flyboy Jim's PM Research #5
Post by: propforward on December 16, 2019, 06:37:43 PM
I'm following along as well. Lovely engine, and great progress. Picking up tips when I can.

I must admit, the Arthur Warner insert tooling looks very good - tempted to try it myself to get over some of my tool grinding woes.

https://www.arwarnerco.com/
Title: Re: Flyboy Jim's PM Research #5
Post by: Flyboy Jim on December 17, 2019, 02:54:13 AM
Thanks Bill, Bent and Stuart,

Bent...........here's the link to the 35 degree profile bits: https://www.arwarnerco.com/Kit-16-35-Degree-Profile-V-Right-Hand-Left-Han-p/kit-16.htm  Expensive.............but worth it.

Got going on the Cylinder today. Centered it in the 4 jaw and turned the face that mates with the frame.

(https://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10010/P1030751.JPG)

Turned the diameter to fit the recess in the frame with my new favorite bit.

(https://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10010/P1030752.JPG)

Bored the Cylinder to 0.625 as called out.

(https://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10010/P1030753.JPG)

Turned the cylinder around and mounted it in the 3 jaw. Faced and turned the end to fit the Cylinder Head. Both ends fit.  :whoohoo:

(https://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10010/P1030754.JPG)

(https://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10010/P1030755.JPG)

(https://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10010/P1030756.JPG)

Jim
Title: Re: Flyboy Jim's PM Research #5
Post by: crueby on December 17, 2019, 02:35:44 PM
Excellent!   :popcorn: :popcorn: :popcorn:
Title: Re: Flyboy Jim's PM Research #5
Post by: Ye-Ole Steam Dude on December 17, 2019, 06:32:43 PM
Hello Jim,

Coming along very nicely  :ThumbsUp:

Have a great day,
Thomas
Title: Re: Flyboy Jim's PM Research #5
Post by: bent on December 18, 2019, 04:45:54 PM
 :ThumbsUp: :popcorn:
Title: Re: Flyboy Jim's PM Research #5
Post by: Flyboy Jim on January 06, 2020, 02:51:16 AM
Progress got even slower over the Holidays, but did get a little done.

Mounted the Cylinder in my vice and milled the face of the steam chest flat.

(https://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10010/P1030757.JPG)

(https://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10010/P1030758.JPG)

Then milled out the Valve Chamber

(https://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10010/P1030782.JPG)

Next up will be the milling of the Port Holes.

Jim

Title: Re: Flyboy Jim's PM Research #5
Post by: propforward on January 06, 2020, 02:57:49 AM
Lovely work Jim. Any issues with taking a fly cutter across the opening in the steam chest? I've never used one before, wondering if there are any pitfalls to be aware of?
Title: Re: Flyboy Jim's PM Research #5
Post by: Flyboy Jim on January 06, 2020, 03:20:33 AM
Lovely work Jim. Any issues with taking a fly cutter across the opening in the steam chest? I've never used one before, wondering if there are any pitfalls to be aware of?

No problems at all Stuart. But that said....... I take pretty light cuts. 

Jim
Title: Re: Flyboy Jim's PM Research #5
Post by: Flyboy Jim on January 13, 2020, 02:41:19 AM
Got a little time in today and got the port holes milled in the steam chest area.

(https://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10010/P1030783.JPG)

Then located and drilled the holes for the Steam Chest Cover.

(https://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10010/P1030786.JPG)

Then tapped 2-56 as called out.

(https://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10010/P1030788.JPG)

Next up is the Steam Chest Cover.

Jim
Title: Re: Flyboy Jim's PM Research #5
Post by: propforward on January 13, 2020, 05:55:52 PM
Nice work Jim, the engine is coming along very well indeed.
Title: Re: Flyboy Jim's PM Research #5
Post by: propforward on January 13, 2020, 05:59:05 PM
Then there's those of us, like myself, that have 1 years experience, 10 times. It's actually worse in my case, in that I only have 1 years experience, 3 times!  :-\ 

This really resonates with me. For what it's worth, I think the quality of your work exceeds what you describe above. Nice job all round. I'm thinking of buying one of these engines myself, it's a very nice engine and a great build.
Title: Re: Flyboy Jim's PM Research #5
Post by: crueby on January 13, 2020, 08:09:39 PM
Looking good Jim!   :popcorn:
Title: Re: Flyboy Jim's PM Research #5
Post by: Flyboy Jim on January 14, 2020, 02:48:35 AM
Thanks Stuart and Chris.

I got some more time in on my project today.............. 2 days in a row!  :whoohoo:

Worked on the Steam Chest Cover.

Cut it off the spru (?) and milled the sides even.

(https://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10010/P1030791.JPG)

Located and drilled the mounting holes.

(https://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10010/P1030793.JPG)

I think some studs and nuts would look good here.

(https://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10010/P1030797.JPG)

Jim
Title: Re: Flyboy Jim's PM Research #5
Post by: Kim on January 14, 2020, 05:09:05 AM
You're really moving along there, Jim!  :popcorn:

Did you have to face the other side of the steam chest cover too?  Just seems like the cast finish wouldn't really give you a good seal for the steam chest.

And yes, studs and nuts would definitely look good there!
Kim
Title: Re: Flyboy Jim's PM Research #5
Post by: b.lindsey on January 14, 2020, 01:54:55 PM
Still following along here Jim and enjoying your progress.

Bill
Title: Re: Flyboy Jim's PM Research #5
Post by: Flyboy Jim on January 14, 2020, 02:14:17 PM
Thanks Kim and Bill.

Kim............ the back of the casting was quite flat and so far all I've done is sand it on my surface plate. It may need more sanding or possibly fly cutting. The same may also apply to the cylinder head I did earlier. I noticed that some gasket material is included in the kit, so that might suffice. It'll only be running on air.

Bill............your build thread has really been helpful.

Jim
Title: Re: Flyboy Jim's PM Research #5
Post by: Flyboy Jim on January 18, 2020, 03:04:35 AM
I decided that a mandrel would be handy for the next few steps, so machined one. Mounted the cylinder on it and mounted the chuck on the RT. Located, drilled and threaded the hole for the exhaust outlet.

(https://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10010/P1030802.JPG)

(https://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10010/P1030805.JPG)

While I had it set up, I centered the RT and milled off the part of the cylinder I couldn't turn when I had the cylinder mounted in the lathe a while back.

(https://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10010/P1030808.JPG)

Also located, drilled and tapped the holes for mounting the Cylinder Head.

(https://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10010/P1030810.JPG)

(https://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10010/P1030813.JPG)

(https://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10010/P1030815.JPG)

Jim
Title: Re: Flyboy Jim's PM Research #5
Post by: propforward on January 18, 2020, 03:14:08 AM
More great work - itís coming on very nicely!

I like the mandrel for holding and centering. Nice idea.
Title: Re: Flyboy Jim's PM Research #5
Post by: crueby on January 18, 2020, 03:22:04 AM
Nice! Mandrels and arbors come in very handy, go great with the rotary table.   :popcorn:
Title: Re: Flyboy Jim's PM Research #5
Post by: Flyboy Jim on January 18, 2020, 03:26:47 AM
Nice! Mandrels and arbors come in very handy, go great with the rotary table.   :popcorn:

They sure do! I think before I'm done, it'll be modified to work like the one you did for the Steamer, so I can drill the steam ports.

Jim
Title: Re: Flyboy Jim's PM Research #5
Post by: crueby on January 18, 2020, 03:29:24 AM
Lots of variants, caps, expanding arbors, side pins, depending on the part. Essential for gears too.
Title: Re: Flyboy Jim's PM Research #5
Post by: b.lindsey on January 18, 2020, 03:55:52 AM
Great progress him. Still following along quietly.

Bill
Title: Re: Flyboy Jim's PM Research #5
Post by: Ye-Ole Steam Dude on January 18, 2020, 11:18:41 AM
Hello Jim,

It is taking shape very nicely and some really nice machining work  :ThumbsUp:

Have a great day,
Thomas
Title: Re: Flyboy Jim's PM Research #5
Post by: TerryWerm on January 18, 2020, 06:00:16 PM
You've made some great progress this week, Jim. It is good to see! 

I agree that studs and nuts would look the best on the steam chest cover, and possibly on the head as well.
Title: Re: Flyboy Jim's PM Research #5
Post by: Flyboy Jim on January 19, 2020, 03:08:25 AM
Thanks guys. I'm gradually getting a little more time in the shop. Now that I'm walking again, things are progressing a little faster.  :cartwheel:

I turned the cylinder around on the arbor and worked on the other end. Drilled and tapped the mounting surface for the Valve Gland.

(https://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10010/P1030817.JPG)

(https://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10010/P1030819.JPG)

Drilled the mounting holes on this end. Have I mentioned that I love my Rotary Table?  :)

(https://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10010/P1030821.JPG)

Got started working on the Valve Gland.

Jim
Title: Re: Flyboy Jim's PM Research #5
Post by: crueby on January 19, 2020, 03:12:06 AM
I'd say that you are having too much fun, but it looks like the right amount!   :ThumbsUp:
Title: Re: Flyboy Jim's PM Research #5
Post by: Flyboy Jim on January 20, 2020, 03:10:43 AM
Turned a piece of bar stock to the correct starting dimensions for the Valve Gland.

(https://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10010/P1030823.JPG)

After drilling the hole for the shaft I moved the chuck over to the RT on the mill and drilled the mounting holes.

(https://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10010/P1030824.JPG)

Then milled the Valve Gland the proper profile.

(https://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10010/P1030826.JPG)

Moved the chuck back to the lathe and parted off. Reversed it in the chuck and faced it to the proper thickness. If I'd known how nice the groover was going to part it off, I'd of done it to the correct thickness and saved a step.  :(

(https://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10010/P1030829.JPG)

(https://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10010/P1030834.JPG)

(https://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10010/P1030835.JPG)

Jim
Title: Re: Flyboy Jim's PM Research #5
Post by: crueby on January 20, 2020, 03:37:26 AM
Quick progress lately, great parts!
Title: Re: Flyboy Jim's PM Research #5
Post by: Flyboy Jim on January 20, 2020, 03:58:51 AM
Quick progress lately, great parts!

It was nice to make something out of bar stock.  :)

Jim
Title: Re: Flyboy Jim's PM Research #5
Post by: propforward on January 20, 2020, 02:30:50 PM
You get some super finishes there Jim, very nice results.
Title: Re: Flyboy Jim's PM Research #5
Post by: bent on January 20, 2020, 06:39:31 PM
Nice work Jim!  I am inspired to get back at my shop projects, now that the holidays, and vacation trip, and driving the youngest boys back to their respective schools has all been done, and the snowfall and tree falls have been cleared from the driveway...for now?  :)
Title: Re: Flyboy Jim's PM Research #5
Post by: b.lindsey on January 20, 2020, 07:19:14 PM
Nice work on the gland Jim. Hoping I can get back to my #5 soon, will be following your lead now :)

Bill
Title: Re: Flyboy Jim's PM Research #5
Post by: zeeprogrammer on January 20, 2020, 11:08:01 PM
I was surprised by the gland. I haven't looked at the drawings for the #5 but when I first saw the gland, I thought the 'boss?' would be external.
Is there a reason why it's on the inside?
Title: Re: Flyboy Jim's PM Research #5
Post by: crueby on January 20, 2020, 11:27:50 PM
I was surprised by the gland. I haven't looked at the drawings for the #5 but when I first saw the gland, I thought the 'boss?' would be external.
Is there a reason why it's on the inside?
To press in on the packing, gives more compression adjustment before the flanges bottom out.
Title: Re: Flyboy Jim's PM Research #5
Post by: Flyboy Jim on January 21, 2020, 12:59:54 AM
I was surprised by the gland. I haven't looked at the drawings for the #5 but when I first saw the gland, I thought the 'boss?' would be external.
Is there a reason why it's on the inside?
To press in on the packing, gives more compression adjustment before the flanges bottom out.

Speaking of packing...............there wasn't any included in my kit. What would be good to use?

Jim
Title: Re: Flyboy Jim's PM Research #5
Post by: crueby on January 21, 2020, 01:11:51 AM
I was surprised by the gland. I haven't looked at the drawings for the #5 but when I first saw the gland, I thought the 'boss?' would be external.
Is there a reason why it's on the inside?
To press in on the packing, gives more compression adjustment before the flanges bottom out.

Speaking of packing...............there wasn't any included in my kit. What would be good to use?

Jim
the graphite cord packing like used in faucets is good - the narrow kind, or take the thicker cord and untwist the strands to get a narrow length, wrap it around and let the gland compress it a bit. Or even o-rings, if one happens to fit the space. Even teflon tape, twisted into a cord, can work.
Title: Re: Flyboy Jim's PM Research #5
Post by: Flyboy Jim on January 21, 2020, 01:18:59 AM
I was surprised by the gland. I haven't looked at the drawings for the #5 but when I first saw the gland, I thought the 'boss?' would be external.
Is there a reason why it's on the inside?
To press in on the packing, gives more compression adjustment before the flanges bottom out.

Speaking of packing...............there wasn't any included in my kit. What would be good to use?

Jim
the graphite cord packing like used in faucets is good - the narrow kind, or take the thicker cord and untwist the strands to get a narrow length, wrap it around and let the gland compress it a bit. Or even o-rings, if one happens to fit the space. Even teflon tape, twisted into a cord, can work.

Perfect.............thanks Chris.  :ThumbsUp:
Title: Re: Flyboy Jim's PM Research #5
Post by: Flyboy Jim on January 22, 2020, 02:47:01 PM
Made the final push (I think) on the cylinder.

Milled the opening on one end of the Cylinder where the steam port will enter.

(https://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10010/P1030839.JPG)

Set the Angle Table to the required 20 degrees and nervously milled a 1/8" flat and then drilled the steam port to intersect with the milled slot in the steam chest. Came out right on!  :whoohoo:  :cartwheel: Then flipped the Cylinder and repeated the operation with the same result.  :)

(https://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10010/P1030840.JPG)

(https://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10010/P1030841.JPG)

The last operation on the Cylinder was to drill and tap the steam outlet to intersect with the slot in the steam chest. A little clean up work on the casting and, other than some possible honing of the Cylinder bore, this part is done!

(https://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10010/P1030844.JPG)

Next up was finishing the Inner Head. Chucked it in the 3 jaw and turned to proper thickness and then formed the boss.

(https://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10010/P1030845.JPG)

(https://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10010/P1030846.JPG)

Two parts finished in one day.  :wine1:

Jim
Title: Re: Flyboy Jim's PM Research #5
Post by: propforward on January 22, 2020, 02:58:37 PM
Came out right on!  :whoohoo:  :cartwheel: Then flipped the Cylinder and repeated the operation with the same result.  :)


Nice work Jim, I understand that feeling. Feels good doesn't it?
Title: Re: Flyboy Jim's PM Research #5
Post by: crueby on January 22, 2020, 03:31:39 PM
Excellent!! You are well and truly hooked and on a roll!
Title: Re: Flyboy Jim's PM Research #5
Post by: Flyboy Jim on January 24, 2020, 04:00:55 AM
Thanks Stuart and Chris.

Time for a little change of pace, so I tackled the drive pulley.

Chucked it in the 3 jaw and turned that ugly wart off.

(https://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10010/P1030847.JPG)

Moved it to the 4 jaw and indicated it as best I could. Set up the Compound and turned the outside half to the correct 5 degree angle.

(https://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10010/normal_P1030849.JPG)

Turned it around, mounted it in the 4 jaw and indicated it for turning the other half.

(https://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10010/P1030851.JPG)

Drilled and reamed the bore.

(https://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10010/P1030854.JPG)

Mounted the RT on the Tilting Angle Table (set up at the proper angle) on the mill and then moved the 4 jaw over. Milled a small flat and then drilled and tapped for a set screw. Rotated the table two spokes over and did the same operation again.

(https://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10010/normal_P1030857.JPG)

(https://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10010/P1030858.JPG)

Mounted a shaft in the lathe and mounted the Drive Pulley on the shaft. Checked the run out. It was 0.005". I can live with that!  :)

(https://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10010/P1030860.JPG)

All in all a good day. Plus ...........I was able to put on a running shoe for the first time in 5 months!   :cartwheel:

Jim
Title: Re: Flyboy Jim's PM Research #5
Post by: Don1966 on January 24, 2020, 04:16:27 AM
Some very nice work going on here Jim!..... :ThumbsUp:



 :cheers:
Don
Title: Re: Flyboy Jim's PM Research #5
Post by: b.lindsey on January 24, 2020, 01:43:36 PM
Always happy to see an update on this one Jim. Wonderful progress and very nice looking parts as well.

Bill
Title: Re: Flyboy Jim's PM Research #5
Post by: zeeprogrammer on January 24, 2020, 02:04:53 PM
It's looking really good.  :ThumbsUp:

Time for a family shot?
Title: Re: Flyboy Jim's PM Research #5
Post by: Flyboy Jim on January 25, 2020, 02:44:27 AM
Thanks Don, Bill, and Zee.

Since I was on a roll with round things, I turned the Flywheel  today.  Not many pictures since it was pretty much just the same procedure as the Drive Pulley.

(https://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10010/P1030862.JPG)

(https://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10010/P1030863.JPG)

So now by "popular demand"  :thinking: here's a "family picture" of the progress so far.

(https://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10010/P1030868.JPG)

Jim
Title: Re: Flyboy Jim's PM Research #5
Post by: crueby on January 25, 2020, 03:19:01 AM
Woohoo, really got the swarf in full production!




Is that the last of the roundy things, just some slidy things to go?
Title: Re: Flyboy Jim's PM Research #5
Post by: Kim on January 25, 2020, 05:13:31 AM
Beautiful family portrait there Jim!  Love it   :ThumbsUp:

 :popcorn: :popcorn:
Kim
Title: Re: Flyboy Jim's PM Research #5
Post by: Ye-Ole Steam Dude on January 25, 2020, 10:45:33 AM
Hello Jim,

Looking really good, have you decided on a color scheme?

Have a great day,
Thomas
Title: Re: Flyboy Jim's PM Research #5
Post by: propforward on January 25, 2020, 01:28:48 PM
Very nice group shot Jim, I am also enjoying and appreciate your set up shots. Nice work all round.
Title: Re: Flyboy Jim's PM Research #5
Post by: cnr6400 on January 25, 2020, 01:56:55 PM
Top notch work Jim!  :ThumbsUp: :ThumbsUp: :ThumbsUp: :popcorn: :popcorn: :popcorn:
Title: Re: Flyboy Jim's PM Research #5
Post by: zeeprogrammer on January 25, 2020, 02:25:57 PM
Good looking parts there. Thanks for the family shot.  :ThumbsUp:
Title: Re: Flyboy Jim's PM Research #5
Post by: Dave Otto on January 25, 2020, 11:05:41 PM
Wow ! everything is looking great Jim.

Dave
Title: Re: Flyboy Jim's PM Research #5
Post by: Flyboy Jim on January 28, 2020, 03:16:56 AM
Thanks Guys. It feels like I might be building a little momentum.  :)

No idea on color yet Thomas. Ideas?

Tackled the Piston and  Piston Rod next. Turned the supplied brass rod to the correct size and cut the grooves for the rings.

(https://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10010/P1030873.JPG)

Drilled and reamed for the piston rod.

(https://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10010/P1030874.JPG)

Moved the chuck over to the mill and centered under the spindle.

(https://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10010/P1030875.JPG)

Milled the  recess for the nut on the end of the Piston Rod. Then moved the chuck back to the lathe and parted the Piston off.

(https://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10010/P1030876.JPG)

Cut the previously made Piston Rod to length and threaded the end (not shown)

I guess I finally have what could be called an assembly.  :thinking:

(https://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10010/P1030881.JPG)

(https://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10010/P1030882.JPG)

Jim
Title: Re: Flyboy Jim's PM Research #5
Post by: crueby on January 28, 2020, 03:38:16 AM
Dang dude!   :ThumbsUp: :popcorn: :ThumbsUp: :popcorn:
Title: Re: Flyboy Jim's PM Research #5
Post by: zeeprogrammer on January 28, 2020, 12:03:16 PM
Assembly looks great!

How did you center to the spindle? I can't tell from photo.
Title: Re: Flyboy Jim's PM Research #5
Post by: Flyboy Jim on January 28, 2020, 01:39:45 PM
Assembly looks great!

How did you center to the spindle? I can't tell from photo.

Good Morning Zee. Glad the surgery went well and is behind you.  :ThumbsUp:

My Starrett Last Word DTI is in the spindle and is being used like a poor man's Coaxial Indicator. Just turn the spindle, moving the DTI around the outside of the piston and adjust the X and Y for zero in all directions. Hint: I made this much easier to do by first putting a drill the size of the center hole into the spindle and then adjusting X and Y so the drill would go in the hole. That gets the work to within a few thou and makes the final adjustment with the DTI much easier. When I want to center the RT I use a tool I turned to fit the hole in the RT in the same manner.

(https://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10010/P1030875.JPG)

Jim
Title: Re: Flyboy Jim's PM Research #5
Post by: zeeprogrammer on January 28, 2020, 01:50:24 PM
Thanks. I've used both methods. The DT has been hard for me.
Title: Re: Flyboy Jim's PM Research #5
Post by: Flyboy Jim on February 02, 2020, 03:23:31 AM
A couple more sessions and a few more parts.

First up was the Steam Valve casting. Milled all four edges slightly oversized to leave room for adjustment later.

(https://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10010/P1030884.JPG)

Used my flycutter to flatten the top and bottom and bring the height into spec.

(https://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10010/P1030887.JPG)

(https://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10010/P1030889.JPG)

Milled the recess into the bottom of the Steam Valve.

(https://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10010/P1030891.JPG)

Turned the Valve over and milled the slot for the Valve Rod.

(https://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10010/P1030893.JPG)

Then the slot for the Valve Cross Nut.

(https://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10010/P1030894.JPG)

Next up was the Valve cross Nut.

(https://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10010/P1030895.JPG)

Sub family shot.

(https://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10010/P1030901.JPG)

Assembly shot.

(https://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10010/P1030903.JPG)

Jim
Title: Re: Flyboy Jim's PM Research #5
Post by: Kim on February 02, 2020, 06:00:08 AM
That's a very nice looking steam chest, Jim!  A family shot to be proud of!

I didn't think they usually included the steam valve as a casting.  I figured a little part like that they you wouldn't even see in the finished engine would have been a chunk of bar stock.  But it sure looks nice!
Kim
Title: Re: Flyboy Jim's PM Research #5
Post by: Flyboy Jim on February 02, 2020, 12:50:32 PM
That's a very nice looking steam chest, Jim!  A family shot to be proud of!

I didn't think they usually included the steam valve as a casting.  I figured a little part like that they you wouldn't even see in the finished engine would have been a chunk of bar stock.  But it sure looks nice!
Kim

Thanks Kim. I agree.............the Steam Valve would of been a lot easier to make out of bar stock.

Jim
Title: Re: Flyboy Jim's PM Research #5
Post by: bent on February 03, 2020, 05:38:19 PM
Still lurking and taking notes.   Nice work Jim!  :popcorn:
Title: Re: Flyboy Jim's PM Research #5
Post by: propforward on February 03, 2020, 11:27:07 PM
Coming along very nicely. You canít be too far away from a running engine now?
Title: Re: Flyboy Jim's PM Research #5
Post by: Don1966 on February 03, 2020, 11:59:40 PM
Making good time Jim you and Chris a setting a pace here.... :Love:
Oh love the family shot....


 :cheers:
Don
Title: Re: Flyboy Jim's PM Research #5
Post by: Flyboy Jim on February 07, 2020, 03:52:39 AM
Thanks guys.

Don ......... Chris and his elves are the ones setting the pace. They get more done before their morning coffee than I get done in a week!  :shrug: Of course, in my defense, I've got to say that all I have here to help me is three worthless Garden Gnomes. They don't do much in the summer and in the winter.......... nothing! Right now they're sound asleep in the garden shed.  :facepalm2:

Anyway..........working all by myself I did manage to get a few parts made this week.  :)

First up was the Valve Slide. Centered up some 3/16" brass in the 4 jaw. Moved to the mill RT and used my test indicator to set a surface level.

 (https://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10010/P1030904.JPG)

(https://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10010/P1030909.JPG)

This let me then rotate the piece 45 degrees and mill a flat, drill and thread a hole to mount the, soon to be made, Valve Slide Post.

(https://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10010/P1030910.JPG)

Then moved the chuck back to the lathe and drilled and tapped the hole for the push rod.

(https://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10010/P1030915.JPG)


Turned the Valve Slide Post, drilled and parted off.

(https://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10010/P1030917.JPG)

(https://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10010/P1030918.JPG)

The last piece was the Eccentric Rod Bearing. Turned the end to the dimension called out. Flattened the side and drilled and reamed for the Valve Slide Post.

(https://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10010/P1030919.JPG)

(https://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10010/P1030920.JPG)

Milled to the final dimension. Then moved back to the lathe, parted off, turned it around and drilled the oil hole.

(https://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10010/P1030921.JPG)

(https://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10010/P1030928.JPG)

Done.

(https://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10010/P1030929.JPG)

(https://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10010/P1030932~0.JPG)

Jim
Title: Re: Flyboy Jim's PM Research #5
Post by: Kim on February 07, 2020, 05:16:01 AM
That's a lot of little fiddly pieces!  Are you sure you didn't have help from your garden gnomes?  Seems like a lot of progress to me!  :ThumbsUp:
Kim
Title: Re: Flyboy Jim's PM Research #5
Post by: zeeprogrammer on February 07, 2020, 12:08:11 PM
Good progress Jim and the parts look great.

Where did you get the clamp I see in the 2nd pic?
Title: Re: Flyboy Jim's PM Research #5
Post by: crueby on February 07, 2020, 12:45:09 PM
Good progress Jim and the parts look great.

Where did you get the clamp I see in the 2nd pic?
Hmmm, I think one of my elves sold his gnomes that clamp, need to go count mine!


Those are Kant Twist welding clamps, come in several sizes, very handy - they show up on ebay or can be bought new. Parallel action with rotating grooved tips.
Title: Re: Flyboy Jim's PM Research #5
Post by: b.lindsey on February 07, 2020, 01:59:03 PM
Still making wonderful progress Jim and very nice looking parts. You will have it running in no time :)

Bill
Title: Re: Flyboy Jim's PM Research #5
Post by: Flyboy Jim on February 07, 2020, 02:35:42 PM
Good progress Jim and the parts look great.

Where did you get the clamp I see in the 2nd pic?
Hmmm, I think one of my elves sold his gnomes that clamp, need to go count mine!


Those are Kant Twist welding clamps, come in several sizes, very handy - they show up on ebay or can be bought new. Parallel action with rotating grooved tips.

Thanks Guys.

Zee...........I got that clamp after seeing Chris use his in one of his posts. It's one of those tools that a person tries to find a way to slip into a picture once in a while.  :ROFL: Kind of like my Starrett 1/2" "mini mike"!  :LittleDevil:

(https://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10010/P1030916.JPG)
Title: Re: Flyboy Jim's PM Research #5
Post by: Flyboy Jim on February 09, 2020, 03:09:48 AM
Next up were the Slide Valve Bearings and the Valve Slide Caps. I finally got smart and drilled the mounting holes before I cut them apart.

(https://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10010/P1030934.JPG)

I couldn't drill all the way through without drilling into my parallels, so I finished up drilling into some scrap material.

(https://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10010/P1030935.JPG)

Then I took a page out of Bill's book, from his build thread, and made a fixture to hold my parts for milling the sides.

(https://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10010/P1030936.JPG)

Then I milled a slot in my fixture so I could invert the parts for milling the vee groove for the slide valve when I receive my chamfer mill. Actually............... that would be when I order and receive my chamfer mill.  ::)

(https://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10010/P1030937.JPG)

Here's the parts to this point..........ready for milling the v-groove.

(https://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10010/P1030939.JPG)

Jim
Title: Re: Flyboy Jim's PM Research #5
Post by: Kim on February 09, 2020, 05:56:36 AM
Some nice assembly line work there, Jim.  :popcorn:
You're making some good progress here!  Keep at it and you'll have a runner soon :)
Kim
Title: Re: Flyboy Jim's PM Research #5
Post by: TerryWerm on February 09, 2020, 02:25:48 PM
You're getting closer to completion every day, Jim. Looking forward to seeing a video of her running!
Title: Re: Flyboy Jim's PM Research #5
Post by: Flyboy Jim on February 14, 2020, 02:36:46 AM
Thanks Kim and Terry.

There's still a significant challenge with some machining to do on the Frame casting, but I'm getting there.

I got a lot of machining done on the crank Bearing Caps. First up was to get the sides milled flat and parallel. I'll do some fine tuning later once I get the Frame machined to accept them.

(https://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10010/P1030943.JPG)

I used a needle in the mill to locate the "best compromise" for the locations of the oil hole and mounting holes. I forgot to take a picture at the start, so took one a little further along to show the method I used.

(https://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10010/P1030946.JPG)

Drilled the oil hole. First at 5/32" for 1/8" and then finished up at 1/16"

(https://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10010/P1030945.JPG)

Ready for mounting to the Frame and eventual boring for the Crankshaft.

(https://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10010/P1030950.JPG)

I think I'm now going to have to face up to getting back to machining on the Frame.  :-\

Jim
Title: Re: Flyboy Jim's PM Research #5
Post by: propforward on February 14, 2020, 03:34:04 AM
Go for it Jim, I think you'll do very well. Parts continue to look superb.  :ThumbsUp:
Title: Re: Flyboy Jim's PM Research #5
Post by: zeeprogrammer on February 14, 2020, 11:55:31 AM
Getting close to another family shot.  :ThumbsUp:

Drilled the oil hole. First at 5/32" for 1/8" and then finished up at 1/16"

I don't understand  :headscratch:
Title: Re: Flyboy Jim's PM Research #5
Post by: b.lindsey on February 14, 2020, 01:45:12 PM
I think you have caught up to my progress or lack thereof recently Jim. I had also deferred the final base machining and am at that point now so will be following your lead now  :)

Bill
Title: Re: Flyboy Jim's PM Research #5
Post by: Don1966 on February 14, 2020, 04:18:31 PM
Great progress Jim and I see you like to flaunt that 1/2 mic... awesome work bud!... :Love:


 :drinking-41: 

Don
Title: Re: Flyboy Jim's PM Research #5
Post by: Flyboy Jim on February 14, 2020, 04:27:18 PM
Thanks guys.

Stuart, yes.............I can't put it off much longer. I've been working on my plan on just how to hold the Frame for drilling the Crankshaft holes.  :headscratch:

Zee, if you look at the last picture, you can see where I drilled 5/32" for 1/8" and then on through at 1/16". That creates a bit of an oil cup for oiling the Crankshaft.

Bill, I've been following your lead pretty closely so far. Looks like I'm going to have to start thinking for myself pretty soon!  :thinking:

Don, I love that mighty "mini mic"!  :) It does seem to slip into a picture now and again.  :shrug:  :naughty:

Jim
Title: Re: Flyboy Jim's PM Research #5
Post by: propforward on February 14, 2020, 05:09:19 PM

Stuart, yes.............I can't put it off much longer. I've been working on my plan on just how to hold the Frame for drilling the Crankshaft holes.  :headscratch:


That's really the core of making these things isn't it? These castings are just so awkward. It's part of the challenge that attracted to castings and want to try making engines this way.
Title: Re: Flyboy Jim's PM Research #5
Post by: zeeprogrammer on February 14, 2020, 05:50:17 PM
Zee, if you look at the last picture, you can see where I drilled 5/32" for 1/8" and then on through at 1/16". That creates a bit of an oil cup for oiling the Crankshaft.

 :facepalm: I get it now. I don't think I'd finished my 1st cup of coffee when I asked.
Title: Re: Flyboy Jim's PM Research #5
Post by: Flyboy Jim on March 15, 2020, 04:04:06 AM
Holy cow! I can't believe it's been this long since I had something useful to post on my build. Got busy with some other life things and then a lot of fumbling with the next steps.

First I had to mount the Frame casting horizontally so I could mill, drill and tap the holes to mount the Slide Valve Bearings (this shot was taken after I had drilled the holes).

(https://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10010/P1030960.JPG)

Then I had to make sure it was level to the mill table.

(https://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10010/P1030955.JPG) 

Drilled and successfully tapped two of the holes. The problem was that they needed to be drilled #50 for a 2-56 tap. I had to keep enlarging them in order to get the tap to go through. Finally ended up drilling #46 to get the tap to go through.

(https://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10010/P1030958.JPG)

So far so good. One Slide Valve Bearing and Slide Valve Cap mounted.

(https://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10010/P1030961.JPG)

That's when things started going south. I almost had the 3rd hole tapped and then the tap broke off in the hole. Heck!  :facepalm: Using a 1/8" end mill I was able to mill the tap out. Whew! Turned a brass insert and Loctited into the hole. Then drilled#50 and tapped the hole 2-56.........easy! Got my tap order in from McMaster Carr and tapped the 4th hole. Heck again..............this tapped broke like the other one.....also in a #46 hole. Did the same solution as for hole #3.

Next I noticed that the bolts in the #50 drilled holes had a heck of a lot less play than the #46 holes in the cast iron did. The solution to that was to drill out holes #1 and 2 to 1/8" and put inserts in them as well.

(https://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10010/P1030963.JPG)

(https://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10010/P1030965.JPG)

(https://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10010/P1030970.JPG)

It's nice to be back making a little headway.............even if it is slow headway. I've come to the conclusion that I'm not to fond of working with cast iron.

Jim
Title: Re: Flyboy Jim's PM Research #5
Post by: zeeprogrammer on March 15, 2020, 12:57:50 PM
Glad to see you back at it.
Nice save!

I'm a little confused about the drill sizes you used.
For a 2-56, I would have used a #50 in brass (or aluminum) or a #49 in iron (or steel).
A #46 is nearly the size of a 2-56.
(My reference book may have errors though).

If I use the equation I got from Marv...

Dt = Dm - (2*K) * (dot / n)

Dm = 0.086 (major diameter of a 2-56)
K = .649519 (a constant)
dot = .5 (50% tap for iron, 75% for brass)
n = 56 (thread count)

Dt = .074401

A #49 is .073 (or .001401 from Dt)
A #48 is .076 (or -.0016) from Dt)

Hm. Dt is right in the middle. Which to use?




Title: Re: Flyboy Jim's PM Research #5
Post by: crueby on March 15, 2020, 01:26:03 PM
Yeah, 46 is too big. My guess is hard spots in the iron, you notice if the drills had trouble getting through too? I much prefer cast bronze to cast iron parts.
Title: Re: Flyboy Jim's PM Research #5
Post by: Flyboy Jim on March 15, 2020, 02:03:13 PM
Yeah, 46 is too big. My guess is hard spots in the iron, you notice if the drills had trouble getting through too? I much prefer cast bronze to cast iron parts.

Yep...... I'm with you Chris when it comes to cast iron. It seemed to drill just fine and when I ultimately ran a 1/8" end mill through that went well also. I'm wondering if 2-56 is just too delicate to tap cast iron. I've got holes for the Cylinder and Crankshaft Bearing Caps to drill and tap 2-56 yet, so I'm a little concerned. I'm thinking about bumping the tap up to 3-48 with the proper sized hole. For the record the second broken tap was a new one from McMaster Carr.

Zee..........your book is correct. As I kept having to go to a larger and larger drill size my effort became more of an experiment on how large of a hole I'd have to go to to get a 2-56 tap to go through, knowing I could always bump up to 3-48. Breaking a tap (2 taps) wasn't in the plan. >:(

Jim
Title: Re: Flyboy Jim's PM Research #5
Post by: Bear on March 15, 2020, 02:09:55 PM
Jim, great work. I liked seeing the photos that I think show the interplay between the Sherline lathe and mill. Am I seeing that on some processes, you are merely transferring the chuck with the part from the lathe to the mill. If so, I guess that would be very helpful with attaining tolerances. Is this correct?

As you and others have said in my thread regarding lathe choice, the milling machine appears to be a necessity.

Title: Re: Flyboy Jim's PM Research #5
Post by: Flyboy Jim on March 15, 2020, 02:24:15 PM
Jim, great work. I liked seeing the photos that I think show the interplay between the Sherline lathe and mill. Am I seeing that on some processes, you are merely transferring the chuck with the part from the lathe to the mill. If so, I guess that would be very helpful with attaining tolerances. Is this correct?

As you and others have said in my thread regarding lathe choice, the milling machine appears to be a necessity.

Good observation Bear. You've just discovered what, for me, is one of the big advantages of the Sherline lathe and mill combination. There are times when I've started with a part in the 3 or 4 jaw chuck on the lathe, then move it to the mill for an operation or 2, then back to the lathe for more work. All while not disturbing the part in the chuck. I'm sure it can be done with other lathes and mills, but have no experience with that. Something else I appreciate is the accuracy of the zero resettable dials. I make lots of use of that feature............sort of a "poor man's DRO".  :)

Jim
Title: Re: Flyboy Jim's PM Research #5
Post by: zeeprogrammer on March 15, 2020, 02:35:01 PM
When I had the mini-lathe and mini-mill, I could transfer chucked parts between them.
The biggest issue was taking the chuck off (or on) the lathe because of how it was bolted on. (Tough to get fingers onto the nuts.)
That's why I wanted my next lathe to have a cam-lock for the chuck.
Makes it much easier to swap the chuck but I hadn't counted on how heavy the chucks are. (Not to mention the risk of dropping such things.)
Title: Re: Flyboy Jim's PM Research #5
Post by: Bear on March 15, 2020, 02:36:35 PM
Jim, great work. I liked seeing the photos that I think show the interplay between the Sherline lathe and mill. Am I seeing that on some processes, you are merely transferring the chuck with the part from the lathe to the mill. If so, I guess that would be very helpful with attaining tolerances. Is this correct?

As you and others have said in my thread regarding lathe choice, the milling machine appears to be a necessity.

Good observation Bear. You've just discovered what, for me, is one of the big advantages of the Sherline lathe and mill combination. There are times when I've started with a part in the 3 or 4 jaw chuck on the lathe, then move it to the mill for an operation or 2, then back to the lathe for more work. All while not disturbing the part in the chuck. I'm sure it can be done with other lathes and mills, but have no experience with that. Something else I appreciate is the accuracy of the zero resettable dials. I make lots of use of that feature............sort of a "poor man's DRO".  :)

Jim

Thank you. Still considering the Sherline lathe. However, I am also considering the HF 7x12 lathe. I know, night and day  :)
Title: Re: Flyboy Jim's PM Research #5
Post by: Bear on March 15, 2020, 02:37:47 PM
Thanks for the additional input, Zee.
Title: Re: Flyboy Jim's PM Research #5
Post by: Flyboy Jim on March 15, 2020, 03:53:18 PM
When I had the mini-lathe and mini-mill, I could transfer chucked parts between them.
The biggest issue was taking the chuck off (or on) the lathe because of how it was bolted on. (Tough to get fingers onto the nuts.)
That's why I wanted my next lathe to have a cam-lock for the chuck.
Makes it much easier to swap the chuck but I hadn't counted on how heavy the chucks are. (Not to mention the risk of dropping such things.)

To add to what Zee said. The Sherline chucks screw on and off so easy to swap back and forth. Not too heavy either. :ROFL:

By the way have I mentioned lately that I'm a "Sherline fanboy"?  :shrug:

Jim
Title: Re: Flyboy Jim's PM Research #5
Post by: Kim on March 15, 2020, 05:30:08 PM
Bummer of a time with the taps there, Jim :(
But it looks like you've made the best of it.  It's never fun when taps break, but you worked out ways around it and have been able to move on.  And that's half the battle in this hobby.  Figuring out how to get around these kinds of issues!

Enjoying your build!  :popcorn: :popcorn:
Kim
Title: Re: Flyboy Jim's PM Research #5
Post by: Flyboy Jim on March 16, 2020, 01:43:51 AM
Thanks Kim.

Got in a short session this afternoon. Milled the Vee ( geeez every time I tried to type "Vee" ....... auto correct kept changing it to "Zee".........I feel haunted  :-\)  grooves in the Valve Slide Bearings for the Valve slide.

(https://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10010/P1030971.JPG)

(https://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10010/P1030973.JPG)

(https://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10010/P1030974.JPG)

Jim
Title: Re: Flyboy Jim's PM Research #5
Post by: crueby on March 16, 2020, 01:51:20 AM
Excellent!   :popcorn: :popcorn: :popcorn:
Title: Re: Flyboy Jim's PM Research #5
Post by: propforward on March 16, 2020, 02:58:39 AM
Coming along very nicely Jim.
Title: Re: Flyboy Jim's PM Research #5
Post by: Ye-Ole Steam Dude on March 16, 2020, 12:17:47 PM
Hello Jim,

Looking really good, should not be long now until you have a runner.

Have a great day,
Thomas
Title: Re: Flyboy Jim's PM Research #5
Post by: TerryWerm on March 16, 2020, 01:07:18 PM
It's looking great Jim. Good to see you making progress again!   :ThumbsUp:
Title: Re: Flyboy Jim's PM Research #5
Post by: Flyboy Jim on March 17, 2020, 01:44:29 AM
Thanks guys.  :)

Nice afternoon today, so Ann and I took the new Miata out for a little "social distancing". Still had time when we got back to get a little machining done.

Milled the mating surface for the Crankshaft Bearing Caps.

(https://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10010/P1030975.JPG)

Then milled the ends. I tried a 3/8" end mill first, but wasn't happy with the finish. Then used my flycutter which worked great.!

(https://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10010/P1030977.JPG)

Jim

Title: Re: Flyboy Jim's PM Research #5
Post by: crueby on March 17, 2020, 01:50:58 AM
Going great!   :popcorn: :popcorn: :popcorn:
Title: Re: Flyboy Jim's PM Research #5
Post by: Flyboy Jim on June 16, 2020, 03:27:30 PM
Not much work going on lately. However, I need the mill for another use, so I finished up milling the vee groove in the Valve Slide Caps before changing the setup.

I made some little standoffs to get the height I needed and then was able to mount the Valve Slide Caps and mill the vee groove just like I did for the Valve Slide Bearings (no picture). It took a couple of tries to sneak up on the clearance I needed for the Valve Slide.

(https://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10010/P1040002.JPG)

(https://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10010/P1040003.JPG)

Probably won't get much more done this summer, but at least I made it to a good stopping point.

Jim
Title: Re: Flyboy Jim's PM Research #5
Post by: Admiral_dk on June 16, 2020, 09:11:02 PM
Quote
Probably won't get much more done this summer, but at least I made it to a good stopping point.

Why - are you going to 'live up to your moniker'  8)

Enjoy your summer  :cheers:

Per
Title: Re: Flyboy Jim's PM Research #5
Post by: larry_g on June 17, 2020, 07:13:43 PM
https://www.guhring.com/Support/Technical/Tap-Drill-Sizes

Above is what I consider one of the best tap drill charts I've found.  It gives a range of tap drills that will give an expected percentage of thread depth.  Unfortunately it starts at #3 fasteners.

I am just finishing up a PMR #4 and am looking for the next project.  I really like what your doing but this small stuff really scares me.  I may try something in a barstock design.

lg
no neat sig line
Title: Re: Flyboy Jim's PM Research #5
Post by: zeeprogrammer on June 17, 2020, 10:53:46 PM
but at least I made it to a good stopping point.

Is there such a thing?  ;D
Title: Re: Flyboy Jim's PM Research #5
Post by: propforward on June 18, 2020, 01:35:53 AM
Nice work Jim, looking very nice.
Title: Re: Flyboy Jim's PM Research #5
Post by: Flyboy Jim on June 19, 2020, 02:03:28 PM
Thanks guys.

Per, I'll definitely be doing some flying this summer, as well as some outside garden work. Also camping as things start to open up. Must stay vigilant though.

You're probably right about stopping points Zee. Maybe some are just better than others.  :)

Jim
Title: Re: Flyboy Jim's PM Research #5
Post by: propforward on October 01, 2020, 03:54:44 AM
 :popcorn:

Cool weather approaches.......just wondered if this project was calling yet?

Iíve enjoyed the build very much so far.
Title: Re: Flyboy Jim's PM Research #5
Post by: Flyboy Jim on October 01, 2020, 03:18:05 PM
:popcorn:

Cool weather approaches.......just wondered if this project was calling yet?

Iíve enjoyed the build very much so far.

Thanks for checking in Stuart. Hope all is going well there.

Actually I did look at my project the other day............thought to myself "now where the heck was I"? The first thing I'll do is read my thread in order to get my head back in the game. I'm just about to the point of having to machine the crankshaft casting and am a little (a lot) intimidated by that.

It's still supposed to be 82 today, so still lots of outside activities calling. Won't be long and that will end.

Jim
Title: Re: Flyboy Jim's PM Research #5
Post by: propforward on October 01, 2020, 03:24:10 PM
Yes indeed! I like these build logs as much so I can refresh my memory as to what I did, as well as just getting some input and so on. I've been reading back through this one for some ideas, plus thinking about when I can start this engine.

Don't want to rush to welcome winter in for sure! But it's good to start thinking about how to pick back up.

We're getting the chills here, only 50 F for a high today. We'll get a little uptick again and some lovely days, but we're almost past peak colour on the leaves, so won't be too long before I fire up the shed heating and hibernate there - wreaking havoc on the forum with my novice ways and enthusiasm. :D