Model Engine Maker

Engines => Your Own Design => Topic started by: scc on January 21, 2019, 10:32:40 AM

Title: S. Charlesworth slide valve mill engine
Post by: scc on January 21, 2019, 10:32:40 AM
Hi All,     Having abandoned my "New project mill engine"  thread, I have decided to do the job properly!  I've  been lurking in my dark but dry cellar with a nice traditional drawing board. ( I can hear the groans from all the CADers).  I have enough detail now to make a start on obtaining materials rather than adapting the parts to suit scrap bin contents :ShakeHead:   Although a start has been made progress will be slow. As much as I love this hobby there are many demands on my time..........family, wife's business, three days a week at work on full size road steam, caravan, etc....Often when there is time I'm too knackered to use it :old:      so be patient friends.

Regards to all               Terry
Title: Re: S. Charlesworth slide valve mill engine
Post by: Jasonb on January 21, 2019, 12:19:10 PM
Will you be able to salvage any of the parts already made or are you going to start again from scratch?
Title: Re: S. Charlesworth slide valve mill engine
Post by: b.lindsey on January 21, 2019, 02:55:31 PM
That certainly fits the description of a "man cave" Terry, but I must say it looks to be a cozy space to think and draw. Doesn't look too dark from the picture and as long as its dry and warm, it looks quite inviting  :D

Bill
Title: Re: S. Charlesworth slide valve mill engine
Post by: Ye-Ole Steam Dude on January 21, 2019, 05:00:48 PM
Hello Terry,

That looks like a neat place and setup to do all the design and drawings. I will be on board.

Have a great day,
Thomas
Title: Re: S. Charlesworth slide valve mill engine
Post by: Kim on January 21, 2019, 05:07:31 PM
... I've  been lurking in my dark but dry cellar with a nice traditional drawing board. ( I can hear the groans from all the CADers).  ...

Hey Terry, let the CADers groan :) When you're doing something for fun, you might as well do it in a way you enjoy!

Looks like a nice cozy space you have there!
Kim
Title: Re: S. Charlesworth slide valve mill engine
Post by: scc on January 21, 2019, 07:11:09 PM
Thanks for the comments guys. Yes it is a cosy space but a little short on headroom. Our heating boiler lives there so quite warm at the moment.   Jason I have scrapped all the  previous bits apart from the flywheel.       Terry
Title: Re: S. Charlesworth slide valve mill engine
Post by: kvom on January 21, 2019, 11:14:56 PM
Pencil & paper?  Nah, it'll never work,   :ROFL:
Title: Re: S. Charlesworth slide valve mill engine
Post by: scc on January 25, 2019, 01:17:17 PM
Drawing system contempary to the subject matter and suitable for my abilities :) :atcomputer: :shrug:

Postman arrived today with some goodies.   A couple of just- in -case items for the Burrell AND some metal to start my mill engine. Hope to make a start as soon as time permits.            Terry
Title: Re: S. Charlesworth slide valve mill engine
Post by: Art K on January 25, 2019, 04:07:45 PM
Terry,
If you can do it on a drafting board all the more power to you, it's probably becoming a lost art as well. I cant do on paper what I can in cad. Knowing my abilities... :)
Art
Title: Re: S. Charlesworth slide valve mill engine
Post by: scc on February 06, 2019, 08:02:22 PM
Having checked my drawings a few times I discovered some glaring errors :embarassed:  Redrawn and treble checked the moment came to start on metal. There  was not much  spare time available so I made the split brasses for the crankshaft main bearings.   Soldered two rectangular lumps of brass together, squared up in the mill, then set up in the four jaw. I machined the outside profiles of both, then drilled a midges undersize for the shaft, then parted off. They are now  in the pickle.  All easy stuff for most of you, but I'm chuffed to be back in the shed.....even for short periods.          "One small step..etc"                 Terry
Title: Re: S. Charlesworth slide valve mill engine
Post by: crueby on February 06, 2019, 08:04:54 PM
Very  nicely done!  Keep on 'steppin'!
Title: Re: S. Charlesworth slide valve mill engine
Post by: scc on March 24, 2019, 09:29:09 PM
Am I ever going to make progress on this engine?   Having had to dismantle my mill and remake feedscrew nuts etc, I decided today to start on the fabricated power take off pulley.  Got some bar stock set up with the rotary table set on edge at 90 degrees. It was clamped to the mill table by three tee bolts and straps. In spite of very gentle feed (1/8" endmill) the set up insisted on slowly moving off centre. :cussing:
There is insufficient room to do much so I have decided to fit a key to the base of the rotary table so that it cannot turn. All my kit worked OK building the big Burrell..................trying not to get annoyed........
Terry
Title: Re: S. Charlesworth slide valve mill engine
Post by: Admiral_dk on March 25, 2019, 05:35:43 PM
It's bad enough when one self makes mistakes - but it is really annoying when the tools are playing up  :censored:

I hope that you get everything back on track - if only one bit at a time  :cheers:

Best wishes

Per
Title: Re: S. Charlesworth slide valve mill engine
Post by: scc on March 25, 2019, 08:49:36 PM
Cheers Per,    All sorted now I hope. I have made and fitted a key to the rotary table base that is a snug fit in the mill table tee slots.  While I was at it I put one one my big milling vice. Should have done it years ago. Every thing stays square now. :) Managed a bit of gardening as well. ..so a good day......off to the real job tomorrow :(         Terry
Title: Re: S. Charlesworth slide valve mill engine
Post by: scc on July 15, 2019, 09:29:41 PM
I cannot believe that it is several months ago that I last posted on this build :o  Things got really busy on the full size Burrell at "work" and I have been getting home worn out :old: I have also had a spell in hospital to remove a nasty tumour. All is well now and I am venturing back to the shed. Made parts for the belt pulley which  as yet is not soldered, progressed the fabricated base and started the con rod with it's bearings. As usual all basic stuff so just a few pics.      Terry
Title: Re: S. Charlesworth slide valve mill engine
Post by: scc on July 15, 2019, 09:31:11 PM
one more pic
Title: Re: S. Charlesworth slide valve mill engine
Post by: Johnmcc69 on July 16, 2019, 12:12:35 AM
 :ThumbsUp: :popcorn:
 I like that flywheel. Nice work!

 John
Title: Re: S. Charlesworth slide valve mill engine
Post by: crueby on July 16, 2019, 12:23:15 AM
Great job on the flywheel hub and that con rod bearing, looking terrific!
 :popcorn: :popcorn:
Title: Re: S. Charlesworth slide valve mill engine
Post by: bjo on July 22, 2019, 07:44:54 PM
I LOVE that last photo of it assembled!  ;D
Title: Re: S. Charlesworth slide valve mill engine
Post by: scc on July 28, 2019, 11:14:56 AM
Thanks gents,    When I looked closer at the real engine I realised that the con rod bearings are not retained by the usual gib and cotter arrangement :ShakeHead: The joint is retained by two gibs and a central cotter with a threaded end. This thread worked out at 6ba, the cotter end was not much bigger so it was  a bit of an education for me to be on such a scale.....OK, I realise that 6ba is HUGE for a lot of you but come on, I have just finished a 4" scale lump!      Terry
Title: Re: S. Charlesworth slide valve mill engine
Post by: Ye-Ole Steam Dude on July 28, 2019, 11:51:11 AM
Hello Terry,

That makes for a nice arrangement.

Have a great day,
Thomas
Title: Re: S. Charlesworth slide valve mill engine
Post by: scc on October 14, 2019, 09:16:04 PM
After yet another long interuption of "shed" time I have managed a little bit of progress.  Not being happy with the first set of slidebars I have made a new set, progressed the bed and started on the cylinder.  I cut out the bed for the cylinder and forgot to allow for the flanges :facepalm2:
in spite of having made a set of drawings :old: Had to cut the correct size aperture AFTER I had put some primer on. I will be following Jason's excellent system for the cylinder. It's good to be back making swarf again.   
Something that I have noticed is that when using small cutters on my mill with the knee raised, it is hard to see the work. Visibility is so much better on the "quill" type mills that so many of you use.
Title: Re: S. Charlesworth slide valve mill engine
Post by: scc on November 02, 2019, 10:23:49 PM
I have been looking at my part made belt pulley, as yet still in component form. I was going to ask for ideas to hold it all concentric when I silver solder it.   Recent posts by Mike makes me think third hands will be worth making. :thinking:  The rim will be split in line with the hub to enable it to be fitted inboard of the flywheel.             All suggestions welcome :help:      Terry
Title: Re: S. Charlesworth slide valve mill engine
Post by: Jasonb on November 03, 2019, 07:15:58 AM
Bit late now but the trick is to leave the hole in the hub undersize and then you can mount the completed wheel/pulley in the lathe and bore out the hub to get a nice true fabrication.

As it is I would mount a post onto a flat plate that the hub can be clamped to and then clamp the rim concentrically around that and build up the wheel then solder. You need to watch out for the rim expanding as it heats up.
Title: Re: S. Charlesworth slide valve mill engine
Post by: scc on November 03, 2019, 11:22:14 AM
Thank you Jason,    The hole is actually undersize by about 50thou.   Probably not enough...I suppose I could possibly sleeve it.  I'd not considered rim expansion,   cheers for that.                 Terry
Title: Re: S. Charlesworth slide valve mill engine
Post by: Jasonb on November 03, 2019, 01:38:05 PM
Are your spokes threaded into the hub or just loose? If loose work round the rim first and allow to cool then do the hub, this will allow the rim to expand and then shrink back into place.
Title: Re: S. Charlesworth slide valve mill engine
Post by: scc on November 04, 2019, 09:48:03 AM
spokes loose in hub,  planned to silver solder them.      Cheers Jason.            Terry
Title: Re: S. Charlesworth slide valve mill engine
Post by: scc on December 13, 2019, 11:59:37 AM
Earlier this week I had some spare time so got to the workshop. In spite of Jason's lovely fabricated bronze cylinder design ( and my lack of adequate heat source) I have changed my mind again and following prototype with a cast iron one. Set some CI bar in the 3jaw, faced one end and took a light skim along the length to ensure no hard spots that would catch me later. Into the saw to cut almost to length then back in the 3jaw to drill and bore to 0.005" below finished size. My next move is to mount on a mandrel with tailstock support and machine the outside profile. My photos always seem a bit blurred so I took extra care this time and got in close and steady. After three failed attempts to upload :Mad: I contacted admin.  Our ever helpful Jo pointed out correctly that my pic sizes may be too big :facepalm2:   So no pics with this post I'm afraid and some camera sorting on the agenda
Title: Re: S. Charlesworth slide valve mill engine
Post by: scc on December 17, 2019, 09:12:02 PM
Camera sorted :whoohoo:(I hope)           A bit more progress, I set the cylinder onto a mandrel and machined the outside profile. Next onto the Raglan to machine the flat for the port block. This will be screwed together similar to Chris's winding engine.
I've added a pic of my scheme to build the drive pulley. The intention is to cut a shallow groove in an old faceplate in which to clamp the rim. The hub will be on a mandrel fitted to an M3 arbor in the lathe spindle. I hope this will enable a concentric wheel. :thinking:         Terry
Title: Re: S. Charlesworth slide valve mill engine
Post by: scc on December 19, 2019, 09:35:28 PM
Back to the cylinder and time to make the end covers. On this engine both ends have similar castings but only one has a hole in!  A simple turning job although I struggled a bit with a lack of  suitable cutters, most being too big.....investment reqd. I shall machine both before I set up for the stud holes, etc.       Terry
Title: Re: S. Charlesworth slide valve mill engine
Post by: scc on December 20, 2019, 09:30:29 PM
I am enjoying my unexpected free time to progress my engine :)   The back cover tonight. Note the tool changes to get the shape...just got away with it. The 3jaw on the little Clarke is surprisingly accurate so did the cover spigots on that.   I think the mounting feet will be next..or maybe the cover studs :thinking:    I always used to be concerned about parting off. My Atlas has a rear toolpost and with a Chronos tool I now part off  using power feed usually trouble free :ThumbsUp:                Terry
Title: Re: S. Charlesworth slide valve mill engine
Post by: Ye-Ole Steam Dude on December 20, 2019, 09:35:42 PM
Hello SCC,

This is some mighty nice machine work and the project is looking good.

Happy holidays to you,
Thomas
Title: Re: S. Charlesworth slide valve mill engine
Post by: Johnmcc69 on December 21, 2019, 12:24:53 AM
 :ThumbsUp:
Looking great Terry! Glad you're getting things worked out.
 Parting is a little scary isn't it? But once you get a nice curl coming off, it's pretty slick.

 John
Title: Re: S. Charlesworth slide valve mill engine
Post by: scc on December 21, 2019, 10:36:09 AM
Thank you Thomas  and John :cheers:   Best Wishes for Christmas.............and to everyone else of course!         Terry
Title: Re: S. Charlesworth slide valve mill engine
Post by: scc on January 02, 2020, 10:20:24 PM
A bit more time so I decided to make the studs for the cylinder covers. Luckily I looked at pics  of the prototype :happyreader: it uses square headed bolts.....made that way or repair for stripped threads?   I decided to make some...machined some round bar to size and threaded 6ba leaving an oversize head. Having no collets I ended up holding my bolts in a small drill vice and JUST cleared the mill head to mill the square.
Next up the slidebars were checked for parallel on the mill and at the same time machined the "run-out " pockets/ oil reservoirs.
Made the cylinder base next. A jig to position the cylinder at the correct height then a quick welded fabrication. Drilled and tapped the cylinder 6ba to fix. There is much work to do on the base yet.         Best Wishes to All.              Terry
Title: Re: S. Charlesworth slide valve mill engine
Post by: scc on January 26, 2020, 10:01:32 PM
A bit further into the journey!  I finished the cylinder covers today. Did the pcd on the rotary table then cocked it up by drilling the gland holes out of sync :cussing:    had to plug them and redrill /tap. All turned out well in the end. With all the cover fixings done I can move on to the valve block  and position the passages accordingly. My square head bolts seem ok too.       Terry
Title: Re: S. Charlesworth slide valve mill engine
Post by: zeeprogrammer on January 28, 2020, 11:22:00 AM
Looking good.

I hadn't seen a part (don't know what it's called) with 3 bolts. I've seen 5,6, or more. Is there a reason?
Title: Re: S. Charlesworth slide valve mill engine
Post by: gbritnell on January 28, 2020, 11:56:24 AM
Very nice work!
gbritnell
Title: Re: S. Charlesworth slide valve mill engine
Post by: Jo on January 28, 2020, 12:01:06 PM
I hadn't seen a part (don't know what it's called) with 3 bolts. I've seen 5,6, or more. Is there a reason?

I assume you are referring to the packing gland Zee. Oval packing glands normally use 2 STUDS and nuts, round packing glands 3 STUDS and nuts, to keep the packing in place to provide the seal on the piston/valve rod through their centre. I am sure Terry is only using the bolts as a temporary measure  ::)

Jo
Title: Re: S. Charlesworth slide valve mill engine
Post by: zeeprogrammer on January 28, 2020, 12:04:41 PM
Thanks!
Title: Re: S. Charlesworth slide valve mill engine
Post by: scc on January 29, 2020, 09:31:01 PM
Round 3 stud packing gland as per prototype, Blank on the back cover.   The bolts are just there for the "family" shot.   I had made a start on the cylinder in bronze, but decided to follow prototype and do it in cast iron.   I know most of your well equipped shops will have bandsaws, etc but my basic home built hacksaw saved me a lot of sweat when chopping a lump of cast iron for the valve block :)
Thanks for the interest folks :ThumbsUp:   I was thinking no one was looking.        Terry
Title: Re: S. Charlesworth slide valve mill engine
Post by: crueby on January 29, 2020, 09:47:09 PM
Wow - that hacksaw rig sure saved you a LOT of greasy elbows!
Title: Re: S. Charlesworth slide valve mill engine
Post by: Kim on January 30, 2020, 05:53:12 AM
Wow!  That does look like a good-sized hunk of CI.  How long did it take your power hacksaw to hack its way through?
Kim
Title: Re: S. Charlesworth slide valve mill engine
Post by: scc on January 30, 2020, 05:11:35 PM
I didn't time it Kim,  I just switch it on and do something else ::)   I guess 5 to 10 minutes.      Terry
Title: Re: S. Charlesworth slide valve mill engine
Post by: scc on April 06, 2020, 09:30:35 PM
Following recent events  we are returning to "normal".      I've been working on the port block and the valve chest , photos in the next couple of days. In these lockdown days I consider myself lucky to be able  to wander up the garden to the shed :)       Terry
Title: Re: S. Charlesworth slide valve mill engine
Post by: scc on April 08, 2020, 09:32:31 PM
Shop time at last.....I have milled the port block, the valve chest and some of their fittings. The exhaust "pipe" was to be made from solid but my only die to match the thread already cut in the port block has been hidden/stolen by the elves :Mad: too lazy to set up and thread cut I have modified a standard fitting that was suitable as a temporary measure. The lot will be screwed together.  Next I have to make the valve  assembly.   
Once again I apologise for my bad photography :shrug:    The last shot is a "family" one of the cylinder components.      Regards    Terry                 
Title: Re: S. Charlesworth slide valve mill engine
Post by: crueby on April 08, 2020, 11:22:11 PM
Nice group of parts!    :popcorn: :popcorn: :popcorn:
Title: Re: S. Charlesworth slide valve mill engine
Post by: scc on April 11, 2020, 09:12:58 PM
More progress.  The external measurements are simple enough but I am unable to dismantle bits to see inside.  As a result some guesswork is involved :thinking:  The port dimensions are from Mr Harris's fine book, all else is "fiction" :lolb:  An added complication is my lack of any collets so holding small diameters is awkward. The result is that most parts need "fitting." I have to admit this is a process I enjoy....setting the sweet spot is extremely satisfying.  This was today's result......The valve from a bit of bronze, mild steel buckle and valve rod. I now need to study my photos for rod end detail which will be screwed/ silver soldered on.                Terry
Title: Re: S. Charlesworth slide valve mill engine
Post by: scc on April 18, 2020, 09:23:59 PM
The task today was to finish the piston rod.  Never mind CAD modelling, a wood "piston" pushed onto the rod confirms rod length ,piston length and end clearance so the rod can have it's end finished. Also sorted fit to crosshead and taper pin fitted.   Started on the eccentric.  note improvised height gauge :facepalm2:      Terry
Title: Re: S. Charlesworth slide valve mill engine
Post by: Craig DeShong on April 18, 2020, 11:28:03 PM
.  note improvised height gauge :facepalm2:      Terry

If it works.... it works!

Following along Terry.  :popcorn: :popcorn:
Title: Re: S. Charlesworth slide valve mill engine
Post by: scc on April 19, 2020, 10:39:23 AM
Cheers Craig.....it WILL work :)     Next bit is the piston. It will be cast iron, originally thought of a 3 piece piston with 2 rings. Overkill? next thought was a 2 piece with 1 ring. At present I lack a boiler so this engine may never run on steam :'(     so what about o rings and if so what sort....silicon, viton, etc?  I need help here please.          Terry
Title: Re: S. Charlesworth slide valve mill engine
Post by: scc on April 21, 2020, 02:07:23 PM
As no  o-ring information is apparent I have decided to go for 1 cast iron ring, after all it may run on steam one day.    Another problem I have to sort is the eccentric sheave.  It can be seen in the photo that is an awkward shape. It could do with a casting or(shhh) cnc!    The bit that travels
in the eccentric is 0.170 wide and 1.070 dia. I have some brass that thick to which I could solder lumps each side :help:  and I have some CI from which to hack it.  If anyone reads this and can offer advice I would appreciate it :shrug:       Regards            Terry
Title: Re: S. Charlesworth slide valve mill engine
Post by: Jasonb on April 21, 2020, 04:51:21 PM
Missed the request for O ring info, what's the finished bore dia.

Brass would give you the option to make it in two halves from flat bar, the oil box and two webs could be milled with the aid of a rotary table after plunge drilling a hole with an end mill to take a turned boss which could be silver soldered into place.

Same could be done with CI machined from a slice of round stock and the boss JBWelded in as there is no real load on it. Could even solder/stick the oil box on if you wanted.

(https://img.photobucket.com/albums/v156/jasonballamy/Engineering/Tidman%20Organ%20Engine/Tid150_zpsgznu17id.jpg)

(https://img.photobucket.com/albums/v156/jasonballamy/Engineering/Tidman%20Organ%20Engine/Tid151_zpseia1upuj.jpg)

(https://img.photobucket.com/albums/v156/jasonballamy/Engineering/Tidman%20Organ%20Engine/Tid152_zpszfoqhtnr.jpg)

(https://img.photobucket.com/albums/v156/jasonballamy/Engineering/Tidman%20Organ%20Engine/Tid153_zpsdx5ocohd.jpg)

(https://img.photobucket.com/albums/v156/jasonballamy/Engineering/Tidman%20Organ%20Engine/Tid154_zpser1ijdpf.jpg)

(https://img.photobucket.com/albums/v156/jasonballamy/Engineering/Tidman%20Organ%20Engine/Tid156_zpslmy7nczq.jpg)

(https://img.photobucket.com/albums/v156/jasonballamy/Engineering/Tidman%20Organ%20Engine/DSC00377_zpsvmwwrjcn.jpg)

Cast iron ones detailed in this post http://www.modelenginemaker.com/index.php/topic,705.msg8799.html#msg8799
Title: Re: S. Charlesworth slide valve mill engine
Post by: scc on April 21, 2020, 05:35:47 PM
Thank you Jason,  that's started the old brain working :thinking:    Cylinder bore by the way is 3thou under an inch.         Terry
Title: Re: S. Charlesworth slide valve mill engine
Post by: Jasonb on April 21, 2020, 06:17:30 PM
I would go with a BS117 Viton ring, cut the grove to 0.125" wide with a base diameter of 0.801"

This is the sort of sequence I was thinking of for the eccentric, did not show hollowing out the oil box or maybe threading it if using a drip feed which does not look right in the photo. You will need a small amount of hand filing where the radius of the cutter stops it getting into all the corners.

SHob_b-qSvM
Title: Re: S. Charlesworth slide valve mill engine
Post by: scc on April 21, 2020, 07:36:27 PM
That's great! I can progress a bit further. Thank so much for your input and the time involved in your reply :ThumbsUp:   Don't expect to see instant results.  I take my time :old:            Terry :cheers:
Title: Re: S. Charlesworth slide valve mill engine
Post by: scc on April 21, 2020, 08:26:15 PM
a bit of background to the prototype...............Sheard Charlesworth and Joseph Hall had a business making electrical equipment and steam engines. Possibly early generating plant. They operated from the Richmond Hill Ironworks in Oldham, UK .  (the site is now occupied by a college)  Their partnership was dissolved in 1894. My engine has no makers plate or number, just S Charlesworth cast into the bed. There being no mention of Hall I wonder if it is post 1894? But as it is such a simple, basic engine I reckon it's earlier.  I have it on heresay that it powered a dye works somewhere in Lancashire. Maybe one day I will be able to do some research and find out :shrug:            Regards              Terry
Title: Re: S. Charlesworth slide valve mill engine
Post by: scc on April 21, 2020, 08:52:51 PM
There is another S Charlesworth,   Sydney this time . 1894 saw the start of Mann and Charlesworth  based in Leeds. they went on to develop the Mann wagon that Chris is working on. Charlesworth left in 1898. They developed the single eccentric reversing gear. I do not think this S is the one for my engine as prior to this he worked for Garrett traction engines.   I digress again :embarassed:  get back to making swarf.    Terry
Title: Re: S. Charlesworth slide valve mill engine
Post by: scc on April 24, 2020, 09:15:28 PM
Swarf making after digression :)  I finished the piston to final size today, had to use some super glue to stop it revolving on the piston rod. I couldn't resist a temporary assembly to see if it will all work. I suspect I need to take about 3 thou of the base of the slide bars as it begins to bind slightly if I press the cylinder hard down onto the base.
Next job was the eccentric sheave. When I first looked at it a few days ago my mind went blank :headscratch: an appeal on here brought an instant solution from Jason and a "of course, why didn't I think of that response from me :Doh:  Good progress was made and another chance to use my new! soldering hearth.  One day I might get a better camera, then you can see my cockups in finer detail.           Terry :cheers:

ps  just discovered the camera has self changed it's settings again......too many pixels on some pics!!!! will retake tomorrow
Title: Re: S. Charlesworth slide valve mill engine
Post by: Johnmcc69 on April 24, 2020, 09:39:16 PM
 :ThumbsUp:
 It's coming along nicely!
-I always find the digressions quite interesting..

 John
Title: Re: S. Charlesworth slide valve mill engine
Post by: scc on April 25, 2020, 12:03:46 PM
Cheers John,       Temporary assembled pics as promised.      Terry
Title: Re: S. Charlesworth slide valve mill engine
Post by: scc on April 25, 2020, 08:43:24 PM
Eccentric finished
Title: Re: S. Charlesworth slide valve mill engine
Post by: scc on May 02, 2020, 09:31:49 PM
Got sidetracked again, this time adding a disc sander to my collection of budget home made equipment  :)  Works well.   Started to make studs for various engine fixings, a pain with no collets. I shall use a bit of tapped bar to hold them when I thread t'other end.    Did a quick mill of the fabricated cylinder feet to ensure flat, etc.   Last job today was to make a start on the eccentric rod clevis end.  On the prototype this end has a bronze insert which will be a bit tricky. (see earlier post) at that time I said I would not copy it on the model. However I am tempted to try.     Best Wishes        Terry


Title: Re: S. Charlesworth slide valve mill engine
Post by: scc on May 07, 2020, 09:00:20 PM
I cannot put it off any longer......the time has come to progress the power take off pulley. I have already made all the bits (see earlier posts)  I have put an old faceplate on the Atlas and machined a shallow groove such that the pulley rim "wrings" into it and stays put. Next I turned a stepped boss / mandrel to hold the hub concentrically. A couple of securing screws as a precaution and a set up check. Next move will be a thorough clean and transfer to my brazing hearth. I am hoping that the fixture does not take too much heat away and have drilled out the centre to help. If my torch is not up to the job it will have to be post-lockdown when I can get to work :-\   What do you think?      Terry
Title: Re: S. Charlesworth slide valve mill engine
Post by: crueby on May 07, 2020, 09:34:21 PM
Would it be worth putting a little Nicrobraze or Whiteout on the surfaces that you don't want any solder to flow to/into, just in case it decides to wick over to the nuts/bolts or other joints? Would be quite tough to get it apart again if it did.
Title: Re: S. Charlesworth slide valve mill engine
Post by: Jasonb on May 08, 2020, 07:31:23 AM
It will be interesting to see how things go as that ring heats up and expands.

Heat will depend on what torch you have as to how much heat you can put into it, I'd probably have set it up on spacers, easy enough to bolt a few blocks to the faceplate and then groove them or just clock it true using clamps alone.

Is the hub bored to finish size? always easier to lightly finish bore after soldering to true up any issues.
Title: Re: S. Charlesworth slide valve mill engine
Post by: Zephyrin on May 08, 2020, 08:57:23 AM
if the whole thing stands on its own mechanically, why not just a soft soldering? This assembly could withstand future use of this pulley.
Title: Re: S. Charlesworth slide valve mill engine
Post by: scc on May 08, 2020, 09:41:22 AM
Thanks Folk,

Chris.     Hadn't thought of that!   I will do something.

Jason.    May try spacers.  My limited equipment makes clocking it tricky.    Bore is a midges undersize.

Zephrin.         Soft soldering not considered until now :thinking:   My small torch may decide that's the way to go.

Regards        Terry
Title: Re: S. Charlesworth slide valve mill engine
Post by: scc on May 15, 2020, 12:34:42 PM
Having bought viton o-rings, I decided to fit a CI one. However I made it slightly too narrow :cussing: Thinking that there were enough bits made I loosely assembled the engine (with narrow ring) and put an air supply to it...it ran right away :cartwheel:  It was good to confirm the basic internal design was ok, especially as it was based on my limited knowledge of full size valve events and no drawings!! Next job is too dismantle, remake bits that I'm not happy with and paint both engine and base.  I ran it a second time with a camera in my left hand, air gun in my right. The result is a short video that I hope I can upload :atcomputer: :headscratch:   The knock from the narrow ring is quite audible.    Terry.UXy6wmTgNoQ
Title: Re: S. Charlesworth slide valve mill engine
Post by: crueby on May 15, 2020, 02:17:40 PM
It's alliiiivvve!!
Title: Re: S. Charlesworth slide valve mill engine
Post by: Johnmcc69 on May 15, 2020, 02:23:29 PM
 :ThumbsUp:
 Excellent! It does run smoothly!

 John
Title: Re: S. Charlesworth slide valve mill engine
Post by: Jasonb on May 15, 2020, 04:31:29 PM
That first run is always satisfying especially when it's one you have designed yourself :)
Title: Re: S. Charlesworth slide valve mill engine
Post by: scc on May 20, 2020, 09:09:12 PM
 :Mad: :cussing: :Mad: :cussing: Had a disaster trying to silver solder the pulley shown in reply 63. Thinking I had too little heat I did not use the heavy jig that it is shown mounted on. Instead I just set it up in my firebrick box. Half way round things were going well, but of course it moved and ended up a right mess. I have managed to rescue some of it but have decided to try a different design. The hub and spoke ends will be threaded, then It can be screwed together and just the rim ends soldered.            Terry
Title: Re: S. Charlesworth slide valve mill engine
Post by: Kim on May 20, 2020, 10:21:52 PM
Congratulations on the runner, Terry!   :ThumbsUp:

Bummer about the soldering disaster :(

Kim
Title: Re: S. Charlesworth slide valve mill engine
Post by: Jasonb on May 21, 2020, 07:33:29 AM
terry, do bear in mind that the rim will expand at silver soldering temperatures and when cooled may try to compress the spokes.
Title: Re: S. Charlesworth slide valve mill engine
Post by: fumopuc on May 23, 2020, 02:51:39 PM
Hi Terry, a pleasure to see it running that way.
Title: Re: S. Charlesworth slide valve mill engine
Post by: scc on May 29, 2020, 11:20:25 AM
Thank you for all the kind comments :)     This next "episode" will have all you Real model engineers shaking your heads :rant:    However the system suited my equipment and ability.  I rescued the hub of the drive pulley and re-drilled the holes such that the new spokes were an interference fit. I then put a countersink in the spoke holes on the outside of the rim. Set up in the jig, the spokes were knocked home and the stick welder used to spot them to the rim. Back in the 3 jaw to lightly bore the hub concentric and then file flush the welds. A touch of JB will tidy up and not be seen under the paint. I am pleased that I used the cast iron piston ring as I have located a boiler and should be able to steam it before long. Current work is cylinder drains, which apart from tap ends are hidden below the cylinder inside the bed.     Terry
Title: Re: S. Charlesworth slide valve mill engine
Post by: scc on May 30, 2020, 11:45:51 AM
A little more done to the pulley.   joining plates for the two halves. A new slitting saw is required to split them, so I await the post.       Terry
Title: Re: S. Charlesworth slide valve mill engine
Post by: scc on June 24, 2020, 08:42:56 PM
I have reached "almost complete" with the engine. Since the pics were taken I have made the cap for the lubricator and started on some handrails. A bit of tidying / painting is needed, but not a lot. I am awaiting the arrival of a boiler so when steamed it will get burned and oily and look a bit more real. In the earlier video the valve timing was set "neutral". After making and fitting a new piston ring I advanced it about 0.003 so that at top dead the ports were just starting to open. It doesn't run as nice now on air. I hope that when it's on steam expansively it should be fine. (similar to my Burrell which runs great on similar principles)                        Terry
Title: Re: S. Charlesworth slide valve mill engine
Post by: Johnmcc69 on June 24, 2020, 11:13:22 PM
 :ThumbsUp:
 Beautiful results! Looking forward to the steam up!

 John
Title: Re: S. Charlesworth slide valve mill engine
Post by: scc on June 25, 2020, 11:18:20 AM
Cheers John :cheers:       Terry
Title: Re: S. Charlesworth slide valve mill engine
Post by: fumopuc on June 28, 2020, 02:29:02 PM
Hi Terry, a very nice engine.
Title: Re: S. Charlesworth slide valve mill engine
Post by: scc on June 28, 2020, 08:38:13 PM
Thank you Achim :cheers:
Title: Re: S. Charlesworth slide valve mill engine
Post by: scc on September 13, 2020, 08:03:51 PM
I have reached a point with this engine where I consider it "finished". No steam yet, been too busy to sort the boiler.     That's all folks.
TerryNot a valid youtube1 URL[/youtube1]
Title: Re: S. Charlesworth slide valve mill engine
Post by: scc on September 13, 2020, 08:05:18 PM
#Invalid YouTube Link#
Title: Re: S. Charlesworth slide valve mill engine
Post by: scc on September 13, 2020, 08:05:46 PM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G3odrQctWZg
Title: Re: S. Charlesworth slide valve mill engine
Post by: scc on September 13, 2020, 08:09:56 PM
Video probs :old:   apologies.     Maybe try....https:/youtu.be/G3odrQctWZy
Title: Re: S. Charlesworth slide valve mill engine
Post by: Jasonb on September 13, 2020, 08:10:04 PM
It's running well

G3odrQctWZg
Title: Re: S. Charlesworth slide valve mill engine
Post by: crueby on September 13, 2020, 08:13:14 PM
That is running great! Congrats!
Title: Re: S. Charlesworth slide valve mill engine
Post by: Johnmcc69 on September 13, 2020, 11:12:14 PM
 :ThumbsUp:
 Excellent!!

 John
Title: Re: S. Charlesworth slide valve mill engine
Post by: Kim on September 14, 2020, 05:23:17 AM
Congratulations Terry!
It's a beautiful runner!
Thanks for struggling through the video posting, it was well worth it!
Kim
Title: Re: S. Charlesworth slide valve mill engine
Post by: Jo on September 14, 2020, 12:01:18 PM
 8) That is nice.

Jo
Title: Re: S. Charlesworth slide valve mill engine
Post by: Charles Lamont on September 14, 2020, 12:46:28 PM
Nice job. Seems to run very sweetly. I may have missed it, but is the flywheel a casting, and if so what from?
Title: Re: S. Charlesworth slide valve mill engine
Post by: scc on September 14, 2020, 08:32:31 PM
Thank you people for your kind remarks :cheers:        Charles..the flywheel is the only casting used and came from RDG.
Kim, I gave up on the video, it's appearance is due to other(s)   Jason being the prime suspect :thinking:    Thanks to all.        Terry
Title: Re: S. Charlesworth slide valve mill engine
Post by: Jasonb on September 14, 2020, 08:51:22 PM
Yes 'twas me who put the video up.

I don't think RDG have any more of those flywheels left, certainly have not had them at the last few shows they have attended or on their website. It is the same as the Clarkson beam engine which may now be possible to buy from Blackgates though I expect it to cost a lot more than what RDG were selling them for.
Title: Re: S. Charlesworth slide valve mill engine
Post by: scc on September 14, 2020, 09:42:11 PM
Ta for video Jason.        I have recently received a part casting set for their Steeple engine and the flywheel looks the same as the RDG one.
i say "part" as I'm missing the two uprights....apparently the pattern has been broken :(   I shall await their arrival before starting on that one

Terry
Title: Re: S. Charlesworth slide valve mill engine
Post by: Dave Otto on September 15, 2020, 12:40:33 AM
She looks and runs very nice Terry, Congrats!

Dave
Title: Re: S. Charlesworth slide valve mill engine
Post by: Don1966 on September 15, 2020, 02:26:42 AM
Very nice Terry a beautiful fit and finish and great runner!

 :cheers:
Don
Title: Re: S. Charlesworth slide valve mill engine
Post by: 10KPete on September 15, 2020, 06:12:06 AM
Aye, she's a sweet one she is!  :cartwheel:

Of course that's just what we would expect of some one who builds road engines too big to get out of the shop. Well, almost.....

You're a constant source of inspiration for me, Terry.

Keep the dirty side down. :cheers:

Pete
Title: Re: S. Charlesworth slide valve mill engine
Post by: scc on September 16, 2020, 04:03:49 PM
Thank you all, I'm encouraged..... Terry