Model Engine Maker

Engines => From Kits/Castings => Topic started by: Jo on January 16, 2019, 03:22:13 PM

Title: Stuart No 1
Post by: Jo on January 16, 2019, 03:22:13 PM
A very good friend of mine has just started building his No 1 Stuart. To attempt to encourage him to continue with this Surus has suggested that he would like his done at the same time (One doesn't turn down the opportunity of getting at ones castings  ;) ) So lets start with a little history of this engine:

Towards the end of the 1890's Sidney Marmaduke Stuart Turner designed, built and began to market the first of his engines, aptly named the No 1. While we might think of this as a model we really should think of it as a close scale replica of the type of power unit that at that time were used to drive things like water pumps and workshop machinery - with a bore and stroke of 2" and its very sturdy construction it is still capable of doing useful work:

The original engine as designed is simple:

(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10007/P91100125B15D.JPG)

I call it simple as it was originally designed to not have reversing gear but of late there seems to be a trend to fit it with some  ::)

(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10007/Stuart2520no252012520engine5B15D.jpg)

I am not convinced as the engine seems to be designed with that nice strong guide on one side to run in one direction only. So my plan is to not fit reversing gear to mine. (I have the drawings for it should I feel the need )

Lets move on to the history of the first of these engines... Three years ago my good friend Eric had a set of castings for this engine with the reversing gear... he kept wafting them under my nose  :ShakeHead: but at £325 I was immune to temptation so to spite me he sold them to Norman   :wallbang:  This was actually not a bad thing as a month later Station road Steam advertised a set for £195 delivered so I promptly let them put them in the post  :ThumbsUp:

(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10007/IMG_2093.JPG)


(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10007/IMG_2094.JPG)


In the meantime dear Eric regretted selling his casting set so had to buy another and he was lucky enough to buy an orphaned set for £20   :o  :censored: His is the second No1 that is being build in parallel and I hope to encourage him to contribute photos to this thread but don't expect him to write his up he doesn't find typing on computers very easy any more  :(

Jo

P.S. The engine in the first photo belongs to one of our forum members Dave ( Chipswitheverything)  :)
Title: Re: Stuart No 1
Post by: steamer on January 16, 2019, 03:34:59 PM
Always liked this engine.   Ill be following along as well!
Title: Re: Stuart No 1
Post by: bent on January 16, 2019, 05:28:38 PM
I didn't get what draws me to the Stuart engines...but your descriptions give part of the reason Jo.  The other part I think is the green paint, dunno why but it makes them look purposeful.
Title: Re: Stuart No 1
Post by: Jo on January 16, 2019, 06:33:14 PM
Welcome to the build guys  :)

I have been doing a little more digging: This set of castings dates from before 1978, after that date Stuarts dropped the valve rod support. The drawings that came with it are dated 1975 I also have a later set which is different  :o

So to the castings. By looks of the machining marks these have been started by someone who only had use of a lathe, there are a couple of bits missing which I have found suitable replacements in the orphaned castings box. The outstanding bits of note are the piston which can come out of a piece of 2" CI bar and the crankshaft which will be assembled.

Centres have been put in the rods, the standard might be slightly short (which can be taken up on the sole plate), the connecting rod has been started but lots of metal is still there  :ThumbsUp: The only bit that I question is the big end caps which have had their two sides turned leaving only 13.3mm rather than the 14.3mm width it should be.

I need to do a bit of casting/drawing fondling to decide where there are variations which drawing of each part to follow  :thinking:

Jo
Title: Re: Stuart No 1
Post by: b.lindsey on January 16, 2019, 07:23:45 PM
Great to see this Jo. Lots of nice details on the design as well and I do like that valve rod support which your earlier set has from the looks of it. Will be following along also.

Bill
Title: Re: Stuart No 1
Post by: Jo on January 16, 2019, 07:46:56 PM
Thanks Bill,

I have completed the drawing review and it has confirmed again that this is an earlier casting set  :)  The differences between the two are (early/late)

1, Piston rod diameter - 8.73mm / 8mm (also on cover and gland)

2, Piston rod length - 25.4mm thread on end /16mm thread = thread for the nut to fit on split pistons.

3, Piston - split piston one ring / solid piston two rings

4, Studs on standard - 5BA /4BA.

5, Crankshaft diameter through flywheel - 12.7mm / 11.1mm, the earlier engine is keyed the later has grub screw.

6, Eccentric arm - one 4BA mounting screw/two 5BA mounting screws.

7, Earlier drawings have no allowance for cylinder lagging.


Jo
Title: Re: Stuart No 1
Post by: Roger B on January 16, 2019, 08:02:09 PM
Another interesting rescue to follow along  :ThumbsUp:  :ThumbsUp:
Title: Re: Stuart No 1
Post by: john mills on January 17, 2019, 06:09:53 AM
I wil be following along I have two sets of castings for a similar engine and it is about time i finished them.

  John
Title: Re: Stuart No 1
Post by: kvom on January 17, 2019, 10:43:20 AM
Are you going to actually finish this one?   :stir: :stickpoke:
Title: Re: Stuart No 1
Post by: Jo on January 17, 2019, 10:49:17 AM
Welcome Roger and John  :)

Lets start at the bottom... I am going to choose to suggest that the original builder thought it would be nicer not to have any mounting studs coming through the soleplate (I suspect he drilled the box bed first with 6.35mm then realised it should have been 1/4 BSF tapping size and decided to drill/tap the soleplate instead) and used bolts to join the two together:

(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10007/IMG_1178.JPG)

At some point he no doubt realised that if he used 1/4 BSF nuts on the spacing suggested there was not enough space on the top of the soleplate, which reinforced the idea that hidden bolts were better:

(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10007/IMG_1179.JPG)


(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10007/IMG_1180.JPG)

The most important thing here is that everything squares up at the top and having "adjusted the position of the holes" with a hand file  ;) it looks ok:


(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10007/IMG_1181.JPG)

Maybe 2BA studs and nuts would look better from the top  :thinking:

(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10007/IMG_1183.JPG)

I think I am happy with the box bed and that can go for painting, while I think about the soleplate and give Eric a  :stickpoke: for some pics.

Jo
Title: Re: Stuart No 1
Post by: Craig DeShong on January 17, 2019, 12:43:08 PM
I myself would shy away from something someone else started, had some problems, and then walked away.  Looks like you have a plan for resurrecting what was done.  These engines are fascinating, I have a friend who built several.  I'll be stopping bg by now and again to see your progress. :popcorn:
Title: Re: Stuart No 1
Post by: Jo on January 17, 2019, 12:49:58 PM
Welcome Craig  :)

I needed to check that standard:

(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10007/IMG_1184.JPG)

Its short by 0.6mm  :-\ But worse than that:


(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10007/IMG_1185.JPG)

 :facepalm: The ends are not square to the sliding face. So they needed squaring up, first do a test cut to set up:


(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10007/IMG_1189.JPG)


(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10007/IMG_1190.JPG)

Not square... Of course if one end is out that means the other end probably is as well  :facepalm:


(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10007/IMG_1193.JPG)

Measure again and it is now a full 1mm too short, so alter the measurements one off the standard

(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10007/IMG_1194.JPG)

means one onto the Soleplate:

(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10007/IMG_1195~0.JPG)

Eric has been encouraged to provide photo's of his build. He has been zooming ahead and is currently trying to set up to cut the 8 degree angle on his soleplate.

Jo

Title: Re: Stuart No 1
Post by: Chipswitheverything on January 17, 2019, 12:57:33 PM
Hello Jo, the No 1 engine in your first photo is the one I made, or finally got finished,  a while ago.  I wrote it up with some photos in "Engines", March 07, 2016,  A Stuart No1 with a few modifications.    The mods are mainly a more shapely and prototypical con rod, and the balance weights on the c' shaft, and the oval glands and matching stuffing box detailing.   Personally, I tend to prefer the less cluttered look of the non reversing engine, but it might depend on the purpose that the builder has...

Dave
Title: Re: Stuart No 1
Post by: ettingtonliam on January 17, 2019, 01:20:17 PM
Just a pedantic quibble, Mr Stuart Turner started his business at the end of the 19th Century, not the 18th Century.
The earliest catalogue I have is 1906, which features the No. 1, No.2 (a high speed short stroke version of the No.1), No. 3 compound, No. 4, No. 5, No. 6 compound, No. 7, No. 8 and No.9. A At this date, the No. 4 and No.7 had single standards like the No. 1, the trunk guides not being introduced until the 1930s.
A casting set for the No.1 was 20/- 'packed in a strong box' and reversing gear was available for an additional 6/6. A valve rod support casting is listed, though it isn't apparent in the illustration.
By  1921, the price had gone up £2 2s, with an additional 12/6 for the reversing gear. The No. 2 was still available and is noted as using most of the same castings as the No.1, but using a deeper piston 'having a shorter stroke is suitable for very high speeds'
A disc flywheel was available in place of the usual spoked flywheel.
At some point in the 1920s, the No. 2 was dropped from the list, as it doesn't appear in the 1931 catalogue.
If you've got 2 sets of No.1 castings, why not build a No.2, as far as I can see, all it needs is the thicker piston and a reduced stroke crank, with a balanced disc flywheel?

Richard
Title: Re: Stuart No 1
Post by: Jasonb on January 17, 2019, 01:39:46 PM
Off to a good Start Jo.

For anyone who wants to read a bit more about the design evolution of some of the Stuart Engines this site is a good read. The No2 complete with generator would make a handsome display. I think a hollow piston would be in order if making a No2 or risk it jumping off the bench, I seem to recall the No1 book shows that option.

http://stuartturnersteam.com/No.1/No1.html
Title: Re: Stuart No 1
Post by: b.lindsey on January 17, 2019, 01:51:37 PM
Jo, I am assuming that that 1mm short length of the standard can be compensated for in the rest of the build correct? If not, could you just shim it up that 1mm and leave everything else the same?

Bill
Title: Re: Stuart No 1
Post by: Jo on January 17, 2019, 04:09:54 PM
Yes Bill I am planning to leave an extra 1mm on the Soleplate under the bracket  ;)


The Sole plate is now dialled in on Tgs table. I now have some decisions to make: The bearing slots are over width but the lower bearings are also over width and the same width as the caps (outside width is correct). Looking further at both caps and lower bearings both are offset and would mount flush with the outside.

So I could throw away the caps and the lower bearings and machine the soleplate thinner to match the drawings or work with what I have got and accept that the inner showing face on the caps is going to be about 1mm short  :thinking:

Jo
Title: Re: Stuart No 1
Post by: bent on January 17, 2019, 06:38:33 PM
So, mechanically a 1mm thinner cap is no big deal, and it's just the aesthetics...but the caps are mostly hidden behind the flywheel and valve bearings, so, no biggy?
Title: Re: Stuart No 1
Post by: bouch on January 17, 2019, 07:50:21 PM
Hi Jo,

I've built a #1, saving it from someone who "started it but couldn't finish it".  Mine was quite the disaster, but with a lot of perseverance, it runs quite nicely.  I needed to build a new crank, do some serious rebuilding of the crank bearings, and fix a LOT of issues.  I think the only parts I didn't need to re-work were the top cylinder head and the steam chest cover.  But, its a wonderful engine, and an absolute classic design.

When I got the castings, I was talking to a man well known in New England, Dan Fay, about the reversing gear.  (Dan's nickname was "grandfather steam"!)  He asked if I had gotten the reversing gear, and I said, "No, but I'm going to buy the casting set".  He immediately made it very well known to everyone within shouting range that that engine was NOT to be made with the reversing gear, for exactly the reason you have in your OP.   It is meant to run only one direction, so the forces are always pushing the crosshead against the upright.  Running in reverse, there's not a sufficient bearing surface, and it'll wear out quickly.

Dan also asked if I had the book on building it.  I said yes.  He said, "throw it out!  they build it backwards!"  He then explained that the book says to build it from the base casting, and work your way up.  He said that what you should do is build it from the cylinder down.  As you know, the most important part is to have the piston and crosshead guide perfectly square.  So, that's the point he said you should start from.  If there's any "out of square", then scrape the top of the crosshead guide as needed until the crosshead/piston will just slide with no binding whatsoever.  Once that's accomplished, then you can worry about the relationship between the base/crankshaft and the piston rod.  A few thou out there wouldn't be that big of a deal.  So, that's how I built mine.  I don't have piston rings in, and if I rotate the engine to "top dead center", then gravity invariably causes the crank to spin and the piston rests at bottom dead center.

Here's a short video from a few years ago of mine running on air at a model engineering show in Vermont.

NvS_Lr_nd7Q
I'll enjoy watching your build.
Title: Re: Stuart No 1
Post by: Jo on January 17, 2019, 08:15:19 PM
The first pics from Eric  :)

He has been machining his sole plate (Have you spotted those desirable table clamps :P ). His choice to do the 8 degree angle was to tilt the head on his mill.... I was planning on tilting the soleplate :noidea:

He drilled his soleplate for 1/4" mounts on to the box bed but decided to sleeve down so that he can use 2BA studs with 2BA or 3BA sized nuts. (You may be able to just make out some of the original features/holes in the soleplate that contributed to the exorbitant price he was forced to pay for this casting set  ::) ) Eric tells me that he chose to mill two flats under the top of the stand rather than counter boring under where it bolts on the cylinder  :thinking: .

At this point we have to play spot the No 1 castings in the background of the photo. Some are virgins, some are "used" but he hasn't taken a shot of all of them together (there could be features that he doesn't want anyone seeing until they are fixed :-X )

Just to be different he chose to bore his cylinder on his Beaver mill using an automatic boring and facing head.  I did enquire as to why he is doing this on the mill but got a reply along the lines of "I fancied doing it that way".

I wonder why the ends of the cylinder on the No 1 are not counter bored  :noidea:.
Jo
Title: Re: Stuart No 1
Post by: Jo on January 17, 2019, 08:20:18 PM
Hi Mike (Bouch),

You have done a nice job of that engine. It looks like it predates mine - you can tell by the shape of the "S" on the Valve chest cover  ;)

Jo
Title: Re: Stuart No 1
Post by: steamer on January 18, 2019, 12:26:24 AM
Hey Jo,

I trust the cross head bearing faces on the columns were flat?

Dave
Title: Re: Stuart No 1
Post by: Jo on January 18, 2019, 06:14:26 AM
 :ThumbsUp: That was the best machined surface on the castings.  :)

Jo
Title: Re: Stuart No 1
Post by: Stuart on January 18, 2019, 08:45:22 AM
Jo

Great pics from Eric
But by ekk holy 13 amp sockets bat man in pic one ,looks like a dado strip

Got any snow yet ,had a sprinkle here

Stuart
Title: Re: Stuart No 1
Post by: Jo on January 18, 2019, 03:36:48 PM
 :facepalm: You spotted that. That is one of my old 'mains socket strips' out of the back of Test equipment. I had about half a dozen... the Eric made friends with one, then another one, then  :noidea:


No snow yet just another set of castings  :-X Talked to Andy at Stuart turner about their No 1 on the stand and Eric just happened to mention that it is not built to drawing  ::)

Jo
Title: Re: Stuart No 1
Post by: bouch on January 18, 2019, 05:09:16 PM
Hi Mike (Bouch),

You have done a nice job of that engine. It looks like it predates mine - you can tell by the shape of the "S" on the Valve chest cover  ;)

Jo

Thanks for the compliment.

As for the age of the castings, I finished it in 1995.  I acquired the castings probably 4-5 years prior to that, and they were 2nd hand.  My understanding at the time was they were at least 10 years old.  So, they're 1980's vintage at the latest.

Mike
Title: Re: Stuart No 1
Post by: Jo on January 19, 2019, 05:46:02 PM
The tops of the bearing surface and the Stand mount were taken down to height. The biggest challenge was deciding on the positioning of the dummy studs. In the end I decided to space them at 28.6mm out rather than the 26 on the drawing which means it will be easier to get a spanner on them, I can fit either 2BA or the 1/4 BSF but as I do not have any nuts that size I opted to use the 2BA.

Having drill for the standard it was obvious that the inside of the casting needed milling away so that it was level with the standard. Doing this I found that one of the inner edges of the casting was a bit short so added a bit  :)

Jo
Title: Re: Stuart No 1
Post by: Jo on January 21, 2019, 02:28:56 PM
The standard has to be mounted so that the cross head guide is in the centre of the sole plate so that was used to mark off the holes. Having drilled holes in the standard it is time to think about boring for the crankshaft  :thinking: I decided on a jig.

The starting point is to drill the bearing caps to fit then make a jig so that I can bore the pairs for the crankshaft... after a cuppa.

Jo
Title: Re: Stuart No 1
Post by: b.lindsey on January 21, 2019, 02:49:12 PM
You are coming along rapidly on this one Jo. Hope the boring goes well for you.

Bill
Title: Re: Stuart No 1
Post by: Jo on January 21, 2019, 04:30:19 PM
Thanks Bill,

The boring went well. I used a piece of silver steel of the appropriate size to check the fit for the crankshaft. And it looks promising as both bearings even line up  :)

Jo
Title: Re: Stuart No 1
Post by: Kim on January 21, 2019, 05:12:25 PM
Nice boring, Jo!
It's always nice when things workout as planned, isn't it? :)
Kim
Title: Re: Stuart No 1
Post by: Jo on January 21, 2019, 08:00:17 PM
Thanks Kim,

Eric is also doing a bit of boring but someone told him size matters and he must have thought they were talking about boring heads   :facepalm:

Jo
Title: Re: Stuart No 1
Post by: Chipswitheverything on January 22, 2019, 02:06:44 PM
Your engine is coming on very well Jo, and quite rapidly!   i liked the neat and simple surface plate arrangement for determining the marking out of the column foot from the crosshead guide.  The chunks of the No 1 are hefty enough to give the feel of doing a bit of "proper" engineering, I thought so anyway!   Dave
Title: Re: Stuart No 1
Post by: Jo on January 22, 2019, 04:25:33 PM
Thanks Dave  :)

I have done the major part of the crankshaft today. I have used silver steel for the two shafts and some specially aged FREE cutting mild steel for the two webs. Milled to size to remove the special coating and any surface dings, then the two shaft holes bored using a boring head.

I was going to turn the outside by super-gluing them to a short end but the workshop is getting a bit cold and it was not holding. For the same reason I am not going to attempt to Loctite the shaft together this evening  :hellno:


Eric has been telling me how wonderful his huge boring head is I have had all of the sales pitch.. two speed, fast retract... The problem as I see it is height  ::) He was promising more pics of his build at lunchtime :stickpoke:

Jo
Title: Re: Stuart No 1
Post by: Jo on January 23, 2019, 03:50:39 PM
The outside edges of the crank webs has been turned and a bit of polishing done, so it is time to secure the crankshaft with Loctite at the correct location and leave it in a suitably warm place to go off.

Jo
Title: Re: Stuart No 1
Post by: Jo on January 23, 2019, 04:08:29 PM
While still waiting from Eric's pics of his cylinder work I have moved on to looking at mine.

The cylinder has been faced on either end and one end has had the outside turned  :facepalm: This feature is of such a depth that it is not safe to hold on that end to bore the cylinder, which is ok as with the dimensions remaining I chose to face and bore from that end and hold on the other.

I had 2mm extra to come off on the faces, the cylinder had been faced such that there wasn't a lot left on one end so that had to be the end to face off ready to machine the bore square to it and of course there was hardened flashing all around the ports :paranoia:

First the end face was skimmed - this is now our reference face to which everything is going to be square and it will also be the bottom face of the cylinder on the final engine ;)

The stops were put in place so that the boring bar did not catch Mr Silky's chuck jaws and the cylinder bored out to 50.7mm, the final cut repeated without moving the cross-slide to make sure the boring bar had not deflected on the previous deeper cuts.

The bored cylinder is ready to have the bottom face machined which will remove the rough edge around the bore and I have found the two covers.

Jo


Title: Re: Stuart No 1
Post by: bouch on January 23, 2019, 05:46:13 PM
Hi Jo,

Looking at the photos in your latest post, I see something interesting about your cylinder casting, as compared to mine.

It looks like your cylinder has 3 sets of "lugs" where you could drill holes for drain cocks, each 90 degrees apart.  Since I built one, when I see a #1 at a model engineering show, I usually look at it and chat with the owner about it, and I can't remember ever seeing a set of #1 castings with this configuration.  My casting has only one place you could install drain cocks, exactly opposite the valve surface.  Not sure what this means, but I found it interesting...

How does your friend Eric's cylinder compare?

Mike
Title: Re: Stuart No 1
Post by: Jo on January 23, 2019, 06:00:51 PM
 :headscratch:  You are right. I wonder why they did that.

Eric's only has one pair.... He says it shows mine is a later casting.

Jo
Title: Re: Stuart No 1
Post by: Jasonb on January 23, 2019, 06:28:19 PM
Having them on one side allows you to run the pipework neatly down the frame if you go for plumbed in drains particularly if you use angled cocks.

It's coming along.
Title: Re: Stuart No 1
Post by: bouch on January 23, 2019, 06:48:44 PM
Having them on one side allows you to run the pipework neatly down the frame if you go for plumbed in drains particularly if you use angled cocks.

It's coming along.

That makes sense.  I hadn't thought of that.
Title: Re: Stuart No 1
Post by: Jo on January 23, 2019, 06:55:51 PM
Some more pics from Eric  :)

He has mounted his cylinder up on a mandrel and has machined the two ends.

Not much progress as his Newal DRO display has packed up  :toilet_claw:

Jo
Title: Re: Stuart No 1
Post by: Jo on January 24, 2019, 01:46:33 PM
Eric tells me that he has ordered a full new DRO set from Colin at CBR Electronics for less than he could pick up a second hand Newall DRO display so that should be with him by Saturday  :)

In the meantime I have been making some more swarf. I started off by looking into making a mandrel the same as Eric but then thought I would see how good Mr Silky could hold the cylinder on the bore... the finger dial showed it was within 0.02mm of true :cartwheel: which meant I could cheat and use tailstock support to do the cylinder machining.

Both outer edges have been taken down to the 76.2mm diameter of the covers minus twice the thickness of the cladding. The flange is a little wider at the bottom as the valve chest is out of line relative to the centre line of the cylinder and ports   :thinking:

Time to think about the covers - they are plenty big enough. Even the chucking spigot is very well cast but I still machined it parallel so that they could be held in a collet for machining the outside edges and the bottom face of the covers.

Jo
Title: Re: Stuart No 1
Post by: Jo on January 24, 2019, 05:08:14 PM
The first cover has been turned to fit on the top of the cylinder.

Before doing the second I had to look at the piston rod: I mentioned earlier that the piston rod already had centres in it and had been very rough turned round. The drawings show two different diameters, I chose to target the larger diameter (allowing me to go for the smaller if it went wrong  ::) ). I am pleased to say it machined nicely at 8.73mm  :)

I now know what size to make the hole through the centre of the bottom cover so now I can start machining that. I am not going to finish turning the piston rod as I want to check the dimensions: The piston is 19.05mm thick and the piston rod on one drawing only shows 16mm of thread and no locknut, the other shows a longer piston rod and a lock nut.  :noidea:

Jo
Title: Re: Stuart No 1
Post by: jeff l on January 24, 2019, 05:18:39 PM
 Jo , Great job on the number 1 . Jeff
Title: Re: Stuart No 1
Post by: Jasonb on January 24, 2019, 06:28:03 PM
The piston is 19.05mm thick and the piston rod on one drawing only shows 16mm of thread and no locknut, the other shows a longer piston rod and a lock nut.  :noidea:

Jo

I think the earlier engines with a one piece piston just screwed that onto the end of the rod where as the later two part pistons have the rod going right through to take a nut.

Solid option here http://www.steves-workshop.co.uk/steammodels/stuart1/introduction/stuart1large.jpg
Title: Re: Stuart No 1
Post by: Jo on January 25, 2019, 09:52:31 AM
The earlier drawing (and Andrew Smith's book) has the split piston. Both drawing sets allow for the nut so I may as well add one to prevent the piston moving.

The other interesting thing is the earlier drawing has the 8.73mm diameter rod and a 9.1mm hole in the cover whereas the later on an 8mm rod and a 8mm hole, which is probably asking for trouble  :thinking:

My rod is 8.73mm diameter, so I will probably go for 9mm hole. Work time  :whoohoo:

Jo
Title: Re: Stuart No 1
Post by: Jasonb on January 25, 2019, 01:16:51 PM
Yes I think a locknut is the way to go.

Not sure if I would tap both piston halves, maybe only part tap the top half and have the rest and all the lower one a good fit on the reduced diameter end of the rod so they register on that.
Title: Re: Stuart No 1
Post by: Jo on January 25, 2019, 01:38:49 PM
I'll be back on the piston rod and piston shortly JB ;)

In the meantime I have finished turning up the bottom cover. It shows the mount being offset by 9.53mm from the turned surface but it does not show an angled surface for the nut to tighten on to  :headscratch: So I have left it at 6.35mm wide for now.

Using the chucking piece the cover can be located easily on the zero datum on Tgs  :naughty: then I just had to check that the stand would be in the centre of the arm before drilling all the holes. Repeat for the other cover and we can try it on the stand  :)


Eric is promising me more pics but he is currently celebrating selling is Disco and thinking what casting sets he should spend the money on  :-X

Jo
Title: Re: Stuart No 1
Post by: b.lindsey on January 25, 2019, 02:45:59 PM
You must be getting lots of shop time in Jo. This one is coming along rapidly and really taking shape.

Bill
Title: Re: Stuart No 1
Post by: Jo on January 25, 2019, 05:56:40 PM
Its Winter Bill and its cold outside playing in the garden and the workshop is nice and warm  :)  Sorry no more this afternoon I have been at the village Sewing Bee with the other ladies  :embarassed:

Jo
Title: Re: Stuart No 1
Post by: b.lindsey on January 25, 2019, 10:02:16 PM
Do they inquire as to your modeling interests?

Bill
Title: Re: Stuart No 1
Post by: Stuart on January 26, 2019, 07:33:09 AM
I bet they have Jo sussed out to repair there sewing machine  :stir:

Stuart
Title: Re: Stuart No 1
Post by: Jo on January 26, 2019, 07:45:53 AM
Do they inquire as to your modeling interests?

Bill

We discuss everything, its the hive of village gossip  ::)

Jo
Title: Re: Stuart No 1
Post by: Jo on January 26, 2019, 09:17:10 AM
A quick bit of preparation for machining the port face before some gardening  :D

I decided that the easiest way to hold the cylinder was in the little vice which needs the roller skate to move it  ::)

I started dialling in the jaws (standard technique zero on the centre, wind to the outside undo the top table rotate vice so it measures zero, retighten = job done) to find it was not working right  :headscratch: Further exploration showed the finger was sticky on Tgs gauge  :facepalm: so that has been oiked off and needs servicing, thankfully my Supplier sold me another a couple of weeks ago.

Just need to mount up the cylinder and we are off  :cartwheel:

Jo
Title: Re: Stuart No 1
Post by: Admiral_dk on January 26, 2019, 04:58:11 PM
That is a drag (pun intended) Jo. I hope this isn't going to prevent you from making more swarf engine parts for too long  :ThumbsUp:
Title: Re: Stuart No 1
Post by: Jo on January 26, 2019, 05:13:34 PM
We are ok Per, I have a spare  ;)

Normally I use a level on top of the port face to make sure things are level but the draw on the casting means that face is shaped like a tent so It was necessary to use a square on the side of the valve face instead.

Now we can face it down to 6.35mm, mill the side of the port face square, on one side dropping down to square up the exhaust face. The ports measured up equally spaced from the top and bottom edges  :ThumbsUp:

I will wait until later tomorrow morning to continue ....

Jo
Title: Re: Stuart No 1
Post by: Laurentic on January 26, 2019, 10:48:18 PM
Nice work so far Jo, have come on this late in the day.  Will watch on.

Back to your day one and I'm not surprised you bit Station Road Steams hand off at £195 for the casting set - just checked price for a set from the manufacturers for a No.1 and it's £482 + VAT (+20% extra for the benefit of our overseas friends) - ouch!  Too much for me at that price.

Chris
Title: Re: Stuart No 1
Post by: ChuckKey on January 27, 2019, 10:06:40 AM
We are ok Per, I have a spare  ;)

Normally I use a level on top of the port face to make sure things are level but the draw on the casting means that face is shaped like a tent so It was necessary to use a square on the side of the valve face instead.


Jo, the portface, where you have the level, is the last surface I would use for setting that job up. It is going to be machined, so it does not matter where it is. Surfaces that are going to remain unmachined matter the most in setting up a casting. There are two things I would measure. The less important, which you have ended up using, is the squareness of the sides of the port block (or whatever it is called). As far as I can see, the most important thing is to ensure that the finished unmachined sides of the port block are equidistant from the centreline of the cylinder. This would be measured each side by working from the already machined end flanges.
Title: Re: Stuart No 1
Post by: Jo on January 27, 2019, 11:16:45 AM
Hi Chuckkey :- The port face was only 0.8mm over width before machining. So choosing where the port face is as much aesthetic (seeing what the casting will allow) as seeking ultimate accuracy and risking having to make the entire port face narrower.



Eric has provided another set of pics  :) His covers don't have any chucking piece  :headscratch:

I better get out in my workshop he is racing ahead on his engine :o

Jo
Title: Re: Stuart No 1
Post by: Jo on January 27, 2019, 03:54:53 PM
Back to my cylinder  :)

The ports look to be nicely central to the port face. I was a little concerned that the cutter was being pushed side wards while milling the first slot but it is just a figment of the lighting conditions  ::) Even the inlet ports lined up nicely. Allowing me to first mark to check the positions and then drill for the steam chest studs.

I decided I would prefer the drain cocks opposite the steam chest so the cylinder was mounted on the valve face, the centre found and the drain cock holes drilled. The Pillar tool was used to make sure that all the threads went in square.

The covers even fitted... next I need to think about the crosshead and mounting the cylinder on the standard  :thinking:

Jo

Title: Re: Stuart No 1
Post by: b.lindsey on January 27, 2019, 04:45:14 PM
Still coming Al ng well Jo. I also like that shorter lift table you have for that monster vise😊

Bill
Title: Re: Stuart No 1
Post by: Jo on January 28, 2019, 08:11:21 PM
Thanks Bill,

I had visitors again today which cut into the swarf making time  ::)

I did mark up and drill the top of the standard and clean up some of the edges. I can now check the dimensions from the sliding surface of the standard to the centre lines of the cylinder ready to machine up the crosshead.

Jo
Title: Re: Stuart No 1
Post by: crueby on January 28, 2019, 08:13:19 PM
Coming along great!

 :popcorn: :popcorn: :popcorn:
Title: Re: Stuart No 1
Post by: bent on January 28, 2019, 08:49:24 PM
Great progress, Jo.  Curious as to how the conrod slide lines up relative to cylinder axis - I assume they will be parallel, though the last image it looks as if not (or not yet?).
Title: Re: Stuart No 1
Post by: Jo on January 28, 2019, 08:53:47 PM
Thanks Chris & Bent,

The sliding surface for the crosshead is square to the cylinder, the back edge of the casting behind the sliding surface is at an angle... like along the bottom edge. I could machine the back edge square but it is only cosmetic :noidea:

Jo
Title: Re: Stuart No 1
Post by: Jo on January 29, 2019, 03:15:54 PM
A quick measurement having poked a piece of 14.3mm brass in the gland hole and remembered it was a piece of 14.3mm not 16mm when doing the calculations  :facepalm: showed that we can go by the drawing dimensions for the crosshead  :)

The piston rod/cross head was set up in the indexing head with tailstock support and the side squared up using a square against the bed. Having skimmed both sides this gave me the cutter height for further cuts and I found that there was not a lot to come off. Having taken the sides of the sliding face to width the cutter could then be raised and the sliding face itself cut at the required height and checked using the Standard before we go further.

Having taken both sides down to the 14.3mm width I could then mill the back face to 9.53mm from the centre line. The drawing shows that the top of the crosshead sliding face is 12.7mm up from the centre line of the pivot hole so that was faced next and used as a reference to find, drill and ream the hole for the pivot pin. The two curves were machined last leaving a little hand finishing.

The bottom face will be done by Mr Silky when I get back there in the meantime I decided to try the fit  :D And decided that deserved a Jaffa Cake.

Jo

P.S. John so you don't feel left out I have just eaten the two you didn't have time for yesterday as well as my two  :naughty:


Title: Re: Stuart No 1
Post by: steamer on January 29, 2019, 05:21:42 PM
Thats moving along fast Jo!  I got distracted by shiney things last night but hope to get going on my stuff tonight...
Dave
Title: Re: Stuart No 1
Post by: bent on January 29, 2019, 07:30:06 PM
Yup, see it now.  Thanks for the last photo Jo, either some camera distortion or the angle on the back of the slide was throwing me off.  Looking good, I must say.
Title: Re: Stuart No 1
Post by: Jo on January 31, 2019, 12:58:19 PM
Thanks Guys  :)

The two keeper bars are not a standard size. They need to be 1.6mm thick and 9.53mm wide, the only stuff available is 12.7mm wide so 3.18mm needs to come off. Of course the wider stuff has rounded corners so we need to take off 1.6mm from both sides, which means it must be mounted parallelly in a vice. To do this I used two pieces of tool steel one on either side to tap the metal down into the vice. Then zero on the top and mill 1.6mm off, turn over and repeat twice on each piece of metal.

A good test for how parallel the metal was when machined is if it can be clamped in the vice jaws and drilled without one end pushing away from the drill bit.

Six studs knocked up - note these are real studs as you can see that there is no threads next to the standard, not bits of threaded rod poked in the holes :hellno: they are screwed in all the way and it is that threadless bit that stops them turning in any further, when adding the nuts.

The fit is nice and tight and the piston rod looks to be nice and central in its hole in the cover :cartwheel:

Jo


Title: Re: Stuart No 1
Post by: Jo on January 31, 2019, 04:16:26 PM
To finish off this bit I thought I should turn up the gland as well. The round bit of the casting was given a little fettle then held in a ER collet from the tailstock to enable it to be super glued onto a bit of scrap-binium held in a collet.

With a bit of tailstock support (in case the glue gives way as it is rather cold over here  ::) ) the outside is turned to fit the lower cylinder cover and then the main flange faced. This now gives the datum to be able to turn the round bit to length. The centre was drilled and then reamed to fit the piston rod. The gland is countersunk with a 120 degree countersink, this gives a shallower cone than if I had used a normal countersink leaving more bearing surface.

The gland can now be turned round and held on the diameter to face the bottom face. The casting was not excessively thick  ::) Using the same collet in a 5C block the stud holes can be drilled. Which are then used to screw the gland onto the cover so the outside can be filed to shape.

I really need to do the connecting rod next so some round and round testing can be done  :thinking: I wonder what Eric has done on his engine   :stickpoke:

Jo

Title: Re: Stuart No 1
Post by: Jo on January 31, 2019, 05:23:08 PM
Some pics from Eric. He has done his bottom cover  8)

Jo
Title: Re: Stuart No 1
Post by: b.lindsey on January 31, 2019, 06:50:55 PM
Nice progress from you and Eric both Jo.

Bill
Title: Re: Stuart No 1
Post by: Bluechip on January 31, 2019, 07:40:45 PM
Nice progress from you and Eric both Jo.

Bill

Very true Bill. Good progress indeed.  :ThumbsUp:

Must be nice to have a workshop that's a bit above -3oC    :shrug:  :old:

Dave

Title: Re: Stuart No 1
Post by: Jo on January 31, 2019, 07:47:38 PM
Thanks Bill and Dave.

Must be nice to have a workshop that's a bit above -3oC    :shrug:  :old:

Dave

Dave have you thought you could put a heater on in your workshop   :) Part of my retirement planning was to allow to have an extra night storage heater running in the workshop every day in the winter. Its eye wateringly expensive almost 30p a day to be warm enough to use the workshop :disappointed: but the sun has been out so the extra power generation this week has more than paid for it.

Jo
Title: Re: Stuart No 1
Post by: Bluechip on January 31, 2019, 08:18:57 PM

Dave have you thought you could put a heater on in your workshop   :)


Got one. A 3kW fan heater  :headscratch:  It might well heat the fan but as far as I can tell it does 9/10ths of bugger all to heat anything else.  :rant:

My present strategy is to skulk in the house consuming coffee with ever-increasing sloshes of Rum.

Life eventually gets fairly tolerable.  ;D

Can't imagine how the US folks are faring with their Polar Vortex. @ -30oC  :thinking:

My entire day is taken up by whingeing and snivelling @ -3oC  :D

Dave









Title: Re: Stuart No 1
Post by: Jo on January 31, 2019, 08:30:37 PM
I was thinking something like an oil filled radiator or a night storage heater. If you have it under where you work you will have a nice warm spot in your workshop  ;)

Jo
Title: Re: Stuart No 1
Post by: john mills on January 31, 2019, 08:31:20 PM
Nice to see your progress it looks great coming together .
while you have low temperature America with -30  here in melbourne it has mostly been +35 even 42C too hot
to do much. 
Title: Re: Stuart No 1
Post by: bent on January 31, 2019, 08:41:14 PM
More kibbutzing.  Looking good for both engines, though I'm a bit confused by the bolt pattern on Eric's bottom...er cover :embarassed:.  It looks like there is a single countersunk screw that goes under the standard, to bolt the cover to the cylinder - are there then two holes to be tapped on either side of the countersunk hole, to hold the cylinder/cover assembly to the cast standard/valve guide?
Title: Re: Stuart No 1
Post by: Jo on January 31, 2019, 09:31:48 PM
The two tapped holes are for studs to hold the cylinder Assy onto the Standard  ;)

As Eric pointed out to me earlier neither of us have added the flat area or the stud holes for the valve rod guide... yet  :facepalm: .

Jo
Title: Re: Stuart No 1
Post by: Roger B on February 01, 2019, 07:14:05 AM
Coming along well  :ThumbsUp:  :ThumbsUp: In the cylinder boring pictures is that a DTI in a QCTP holder in the background? Was the 1 on the gland plate cast in?
Title: Re: Stuart No 1
Post by: Jo on February 01, 2019, 07:45:27 AM
Morning Roger  :) ,

Yes Mr Silky was using that DTI in his tool post to centre up something and has not given it back yet  ::)


Most of the casting in this set seem to have numbers cast in but on the gunmetal ones it looks more like they have been stamped in - it could be the previous owner did this  :noidea: . Thankfully that number will be under one of the nuts.

Jo
Title: Re: Stuart No 1
Post by: Roger B on February 01, 2019, 10:33:58 AM
I wondered if you had a toolholder set up for a DTI to save time especially when clocking bores  :thinking:
Title: Re: Stuart No 1
Post by: Jo on February 01, 2019, 11:35:25 AM
It does save time and its amazing how often it is needed Roger, like this morning  :)

The big end bearing block has been started providing a new set of datums I would have preferred not to have. Thankfully, although the bolts and centre for the rod are not central there is a little extra still to come off. Having soft soldered, fettled and bolted the bearings together the centre had to be found using the dimple in the end of the bearing where the rod is going to sit  :-\ I love my optical centre punch it is so easy to get your centre where you want it.

Specially for you Roger Mr Silky was using his dial gauge, it really should be one of those nice little 5mm throw ones rather than this big one. Having wound the chuck jaws in until there was no deflection on the gauge it was time to check by powering on and  :ThumbsUp:

Once more to brave the artic south to get back into the workshop  :paranoia:

Jo
Title: Re: Stuart No 1
Post by: Bluechip on February 01, 2019, 11:55:42 AM
Hi Jo

Oh dear. That last piccy does look rather gloomy and depressing ....  :(

I shall have a libation of Rum(*) and Coffee in sympathy.

(*) Note. In accordance with labelling convention, the major ingredient is listed first ...  :ThumbsUp:

Best of luck. Sooner you than me.  :ThumbsUp:

Dave
Title: Re: Stuart No 1
Post by: Roger B on February 01, 2019, 12:27:09 PM
As I said last year, never mind the weather run the engine  :)

Ca8DyJE2RHM
Title: Re: Stuart No 1
Post by: Jo on February 01, 2019, 02:46:40 PM
Good for you Roger  :ThumbsUp:

In the meantime I have bored the bearing and checked it was a good fit on the crankshaft. Then used a piece of ground bar as a superglue mandrel to turn the two sides of the bearing to width and to get the boss. Filed the bottom, not forgetting to counter bore for the nuts. The only remaining bit is the outside curve which will need to be done when it is bolted to the rod.

The next challenge is to work out a machining plan for the rod that thankfully is over sized  :)

Jo
Title: Re: Stuart No 1
Post by: Jo on February 02, 2019, 11:14:21 AM
The connecting rod is over sized but I was not convinced by the centres so I played safe and mounted the top in a four jaw with tailstock support. As this may have been at a different angle than it had been previously turned at it was necessary to face the bottom - this is now the reference to measure off the end of the taper but first the top slide needs to be set over for the taper.

The set up for the taper was approximated by measuring off the top of the cross slide but the real set up is by turning a bit, measuring and adjusting the taper to get the correct angle. I find the easiest way to do this is to mark up the rod so I can see how far has been turned. Did I mention this is another of those joyful pieces of malleable Iron that looks like it has metal worm  :disappointed:

The tip used was 6mm diameter but the bottom of the taper needed to be 12mm so a larger diameter tool was needed.

The other end needed a rounded flange but it the diameter was not given so I played it safe and drew it up before turning it. It does look a little deep  :o

Jo
Title: Re: Stuart No 1
Post by: Jo on February 02, 2019, 04:00:44 PM
I was only convinced that I had turned the square end down correctly once one of the flats had been machined to size. Once the four sides of the top were to size a bit of support was provided under the bottom and the two sides milled to the correct width.

Having drilled and reamed the pivot hole in the correct position the rod can be turned 90 degrees to have the slot cut but I did not have the right sized end mill to finish the cut to size  :disappointed: so I had to drill, mill then bore the hole 14.3mm at the right distance from the bottom of the fork. Then it was an easy case of milling out the slot until the piston rod end fitted snugly.

With the ends of the fork rounded on the BCA I tried to fit the two rods together to find they do not give as much movement as I expect will be needed... something for tomorrow  :wine1:


I wonder what Eric has done on his engine  :stickpoke: I am sure yesterday he said something about adding some special features of his own  :noidea:

Jo

Title: Re: Stuart No 1
Post by: b.lindsey on February 02, 2019, 04:14:16 PM
Coming along very well Jo. I need to get back to making some chips soon...3 unfinished projects at the moment  :embarassed:

Bill
Title: Re: Stuart No 1
Post by: Jasonb on February 02, 2019, 04:32:13 PM


With the ends of the fork rounded on the BCA I tried to fit the two rods together to find they do not give as much movement as I expect will be needed... something for tomorrow  :wine1:

Do you still have some material to come off the bottom of the rod as your hole looks a bit high up compared to the drawing which should cure things.

Best get that flywheel done as you will soon be able to ply round and round an up and down :)
Title: Re: Stuart No 1
Post by: Jo on February 02, 2019, 04:33:22 PM
Thanks Bill,

I wouldn't worry about 3 unfinished projects - it just means you have a choice of what you fancy working on.   :cartwheel:

 :o I said the work word  :lolb: Don't you love its meaning once you are retired... Its over six months now  :mischief:

Jo
Title: Re: Stuart No 1
Post by: b.lindsey on February 02, 2019, 04:50:47 PM
Indeed I do Jo. And every day a Saturday too!!  :cartwheel:

Bill
Title: Re: Stuart No 1
Post by: Jo on February 03, 2019, 09:07:25 AM
Do you still have some material to come off the bottom of the rod as your hole looks a bit high up compared to the drawing which should cure things.

I took 2mm off the end of the rod before assembling it. Its nearly got enough movement  :thinking:

Jo
Title: Re: Stuart No 1
Post by: Jo on February 03, 2019, 04:45:45 PM
The big end bearings were mounted on the same jig I used to turn the 5A bearings and turned to the same diameter as the end of the rod. Then a bit of fettling/scraping/fitting to get the round and round testing to feel just right  :)

Thankfully I decided to use 5BA studs and nuts on the slide guides as I think 4BA as shown on the later drawings would be too close

Jo
Title: Re: Stuart No 1
Post by: Bluechip on February 03, 2019, 05:24:54 PM
Hi Jo

Looking good ..  :ThumbsUp:

However, kindly dab in and get the support bit from the base to the lower cylinder cover sorted ...  :thinking:

Stop this thing going through my fevered little brain ...    :Jester:

lbnkY1tBvMU
Dave

Title: Re: Stuart No 1
Post by: Roger B on February 03, 2019, 06:35:49 PM
So are we going round and round and up and down (with a driving dog)  :)  :wine1:
Title: Re: Stuart No 1
Post by: Jo on February 03, 2019, 09:08:14 PM
So are we going round and round and up and down (with a driving dog)  :)  :wine1:

Yep :D

But there is no hopping around on one leg :hellno:

Jo
Title: Re: Stuart No 1
Post by: Jo on February 03, 2019, 09:24:33 PM
Some more pics from Eric. He is taking a different tac on his build and has been doing the steam chest  :thinking:.

Jo
Title: Re: Stuart No 1
Post by: Jo on February 04, 2019, 04:40:55 PM
Not a lot to show today  :disappointed:

I've pinned the crank, cleaned up/shaped the bearing caps and made some oil pots to enable round and round testing to progress.

Hopefully achieve a bit more tomorrow  :-[

Jo
Title: Re: Stuart No 1
Post by: b.lindsey on February 04, 2019, 11:24:28 PM
Nice job on the pinning Jo. They don't show at all!!

Bill
Title: Re: Stuart No 1
Post by: steamer on February 05, 2019, 12:18:07 AM
Looking sweet Jo!   that's cruising right along now!    won't be long!

Dave
Title: Re: Stuart No 1
Post by: Jo on February 05, 2019, 04:28:51 PM
I started the morning by taking the sides of the standard down so that they were level with the guide bars.

To enable advanced round and round testing I decided it was about time to machine the flywheel which of couse was already machined undersized  :( the worse bit being that they did not level up on the inside rim of the flywheel or centre it  :wallbang:  :wallbang:

It was easy enough with a quality three jaw chuck to get it running true again to be able to bore the centre and skim the edge faces. I chose to mount it on an arbour to skim the outside edge. As per the original drawings I chose to add a key in my flywheel so used a broach and before cutting used it to make sure the key followed the line of one of the spokes.

The Flywheel and the standard have been primed up so I couldn't re-assemble the engine so far so I have started on the steam chest by machining the two large faces flat. I can now start working out how much I want to take off of each of the sides, thankfully there is plenty of metal to come off  :)

Jo
Title: Re: Stuart No 1
Post by: Roger B on February 05, 2019, 05:52:18 PM
The flywheel looks to be sorted :ThumbsUp:  :ThumbsUp: How big is it? I am guessing that it is in the Colchester.
Title: Re: Stuart No 1
Post by: Jo on February 05, 2019, 05:57:50 PM
I'm not entirely sure Roger  :noidea: , I suspect the inside curve is still going to go wobbly wobbly when it goes round   :-\

Its 180+mm diameter and yes that is Big C doing that bit of the turning  ;)

Jo
Title: Re: Stuart No 1
Post by: Jasonb on February 06, 2019, 07:56:22 AM
Best get that new compressor on order as it won't belong before you will be wanting it to go chuff, chuff at the rate you are going :) Lucky that the previous owner had not bored the flywheel as that would more than likely have been off.

J

PS Don't tell the little fellow but I just bought a set of castings :-X
Title: Re: Stuart No 1
Post by: Jo on February 06, 2019, 08:19:28 AM
Best get that new compressor on order

:thinking:

Might be worth thinking about I have run short of things to spend money on  :noidea: , including castings   :disappointed:

Jo
Title: Re: Stuart No 1
Post by: Gas_mantle on February 06, 2019, 08:28:06 AM
Best get that new compressor on order

:thinking:

Might be worth thinking about I have run short of things to spend money on  :noidea: , including castings   :disappointed:

Jo

Nah, get a boiler - much more fun  :)
Title: Re: Stuart No 1
Post by: Jo on February 07, 2019, 01:25:15 PM
Peter my hobby is machining model engines not running them, once they are made they are of little interest for me. I have 5" boilers available if I so desired but a compressor is sufficient to prove they turn over.


The steam chest has been taken to size. Around the valve gland and the inlet gland It was left rough to be filed later. I needed to turn up the gland to bore the hole it is going to fit in and I decided that I would clamp down the gland and drill it while it was all set up. The Valve gland was then bolted to the chest with some buttons and the profile around the gland filed by hand.


What shall I make next  :thinking: I wonder what Eric's been up to  :stickpoke:

Jo


Title: Re: Stuart No 1
Post by: Jasonb on February 07, 2019, 01:31:32 PM
I  like the new lighting fixture in the last photo ;)
Title: Re: Stuart No 1
Post by: b.lindsey on February 07, 2019, 02:09:09 PM
That turned out very well Jo. Getting close now!!

Bill
Title: Re: Stuart No 1
Post by: jeff l on February 07, 2019, 03:40:10 PM
looking very nice
Title: Re: Stuart No 1
Post by: Jo on February 07, 2019, 04:16:48 PM
Thanks Guys  :)

I  like the new lighting fixture in the last photo ;)

That light fixture is a designer piece, very expensive  :facepalm: , I believe a one off  ::)


I found a piece of cast Iron just about the right size for the piston which would allow for three rings as well, so it was a delicate task to square up the ends turn the length for the rings to fit the cylinder bore then cut off the rings while retaining as much of the inner spare cast Iron for other jobs  :ThumbsUp: The piston was only faced, drilled and threaded at this stage as I want to turn it once fitted on the piston rod.

It seems like weeks ago I turned the piston rod, if you recall I left the end over sized so now I need to turn it to length and thread it. The important factor here is to get the length right so that the piston leaves equal gap at the bottom and the top of the cylinder so it was necessary to measure the rod at the lowest and highest position, calculate the amount to come off, then mount the piston rod back between centres to turn it down.

We are all set up for tomorrow so now I can go and find out what someone has been up to, I don't believe that all he has done is find a new box for a set of castings   :noidea:

Jo

Title: Re: Stuart No 1
Post by: b.lindsey on February 07, 2019, 04:20:27 PM
He looks rather forlorn there Jo. Most likely because that new box is empty!!

Bill
Title: Re: Stuart No 1
Post by: Jo on February 07, 2019, 05:17:32 PM
Careful Bill its a ploy to make you feel sorry for him  ::)

He read somewhere recently about some new castings in one of my threads so thought he might be in luck so has been preparing for them but as I have been explaining to him its all just words there is no photographic evidence of any castings and they should be using their own threads to show off their castings rather than trying to wind him up by putting them on my threads  :slap: 

Jo
Title: Re: Stuart No 1
Post by: Jo on February 07, 2019, 05:21:50 PM
I have just spoken to Eric, we might get another set of pics today  :thinking:

Eric and I had been discussing the valve rod guide... It looks like it has to be modified from what is shown on to drawings to fit. I can see why they dropped it on the later casting sets.

Jo
Title: Re: Stuart No 1
Post by: Jasonb on February 07, 2019, 06:23:57 PM
Are you going for a solid piston or is there enough metal there to split in two and hollow it out? Doubt balance will be an issue as its not going to be used much in anger but may make it easier to get the rings in place.

Pics will have to wait a week or so as it is just standard rate UPS box but I'm sure he will have an idea of whats coming form this logo. :) I don't think they come with a special coating though.

Title: Re: Stuart No 1
Post by: Jo on February 07, 2019, 06:47:05 PM
I have decided to go for the solid piston, the original two part hollowed out one was because their rings were prone to break  :facepalm: The amount of weight that can be removed is limited and probably only worth while if the intent was to run it faster than designed.

Jo
Title: Re: Stuart No 1
Post by: b.lindsey on February 07, 2019, 08:20:43 PM
Hope you can make it work though even if modified. It is to me a very interesting feature and focal point.

Bill
Title: Re: Stuart No 1
Post by: steamer on February 07, 2019, 08:28:50 PM
One wide  piston ring split with an overlap works great at 160 psig saturated steam..........


Just sayin
Title: Re: Stuart No 1
Post by: john mills on February 07, 2019, 09:56:52 PM
that make the valve guide foot a bit big or would be better if it was bigger to use the two cylinder cover holes
what has been done before ? the valve rod would not be guided much with out the guide.
the two cover studs could be repositioned to better suit the valve rod support casting .
Title: Re: Stuart No 1
Post by: Jo on February 08, 2019, 09:26:03 AM
I agree with you John using the two cylinder studs would have been easier.

I decided to play it safe and draw the problem out as can be seen the foot needs another cut out added to be able to fit.

I won't be machining the cut aways until I can fit it to the actual cylinder and check the finished measurements  ;)

Jo
Title: Re: Stuart No 1
Post by: Jasonb on February 08, 2019, 11:31:14 AM
As you have not drilled the cover for the fixings is there room to reduce the 9/16" ctrs without the nuts Hitting the central web?.

Other option would be to cut off the foot and solder on a larger one so it can use the two cylinder stud holes.
Title: Re: Stuart No 1
Post by: Jo on February 08, 2019, 11:47:37 AM
It is not a difficult machining operation JB - if I can do it anyone should be able  :ThumbsUp: just a shame the drawing doesn't mention it which is why I posted it.


I tried turning the piston between centres on the rod but it was shattering too much  :-[ So Big C swallowed the crosshead and held the rod for me while I turned the piston and put in the ring grooves. I also took the opportunity to shorten the piston rod to the correct length.

Testing the piston in the cylinder showed that the piston is correctly spaced on the rod  :) While thinking piston I took the opportunity to turn up the inside of the rings and to face to width. I need to split them and heat treat them at some point.


A quick pic of family and I must start thinking about Sewing  :thinking:

Jo


Title: Re: Stuart No 1
Post by: Gas_mantle on February 08, 2019, 11:57:31 AM
Looking good  :)   Is that proper Stuart paint? I like that shade and want something similar.
Title: Re: Stuart No 1
Post by: steamer on February 08, 2019, 12:04:29 PM
That's looking the part now.    I'm waiting for the front column.     8)

Keep at it Jo, it's coming along swimmingly!

Dave
Title: Re: Stuart No 1
Post by: Jo on February 08, 2019, 12:09:37 PM
Looking good  :)   Is that proper Stuart paint? I like that shade and want something similar.

That is Bosny Acrylic Epoxy it dries fast even if the temperature is a bit cool. From either Amazon or Fleabay  :noidea:

Thanks Dave, you will be waiting a while longer that is one of the last bits I am planning to do .

Jo
Title: Re: Stuart No 1
Post by: Gas_mantle on February 08, 2019, 12:16:23 PM
Thanks, I wanted to try spray paint this time and wasn't sure of the shade I needed  :)
Title: Re: Stuart No 1
Post by: Jo on February 08, 2019, 01:47:54 PM
I hav equickly knocked up the valve rod and end so that I could do that nice little casting  :naughty:

This piece is actually easy to hold you just have to think about it  ;) So holding the round bit in a three jaw chuck the bottom of the bearing part can be faced then bored. While it is mounted the bottom of the foot can be taken to height.

Hold on the bore and turn the top down to depth.

I can now examine the mounting on the bottom cover problem  :thinking:

Jo
Title: Re: Stuart No 1
Post by: b.lindsey on February 08, 2019, 02:30:16 PM
Looks like the mounting could be a bit tricky Jo. Interested to see how this turns out.

Bill
Title: Re: Stuart No 1
Post by: john mills on February 09, 2019, 02:31:03 AM
looking at the last picture it looks like repositioned cover studs would have been good  if the stud holes had not been drilled.i wonder if a drawing was changed at some time
Title: Re: Stuart No 1
Post by: ettingtonliam on February 09, 2019, 08:15:59 AM
Fit countersunk screws to the 2 cover holes, then the way is clear to drill and stud for the valve guide?
Title: Re: Stuart No 1
Post by: Jo on February 09, 2019, 08:37:25 AM
I've examined the problem and hand filed away to clear the two cover studs. There is sufficient space for the two 4BA studs for the guide but I doubt that they are spaced at the 30.1mm shown on the drawing so I will be using the covers to guide the location of the studs.

Eric has been doing his main bearings  :)

 :thinking: I better do some gardening to give him some time to catch up  ;)

Jo
Title: Re: Stuart No 1
Post by: b.lindsey on February 09, 2019, 01:27:08 PM
Nicely done Jo on the guide mounting issue!!

Bill
Title: Re: Stuart No 1
Post by: Admiral_dk on February 09, 2019, 09:46:44 PM
You are really moving along at quite a pace on this one Jo  :praise2:

I'm enjoying the trip very much so far  :cheers:     :popcorn:
Title: Re: Stuart No 1
Post by: john mills on February 10, 2019, 06:12:38 AM
looks like you have managed to squeeze the vale guide in .
great progress
Title: Re: Stuart No 1
Post by: Jo on February 10, 2019, 11:32:14 AM
Thanks Guys I am pleased you are following along  :)

I decided that I should start on the rest of the valve gear which are all castings  :whoohoo: There was a mark on the valve which required a quick fix then off we go.

Starting on the eccentric the first requirement is the turn up the holding spigot, then this can be used to turn the outside of the eccentric and one side of the "step". The end of the boss also needs turning flat so that it can then be marked for the bore and centre punched.

Mounting the eccentric up in the four jaw and centring on the punch mark the outside of the boss can be turned, it can be taken to length and bored.

I would have turned the other side of the eccentric in a collet but I had forgotten about the depth of the boss so it did not fit  :facepalm: Thankfully Mr Silky's three jaw chuck is accurate so I used that to hold the eccentric.

The last requirement is to drill and tap for the grub screw and to check it fits on the crankshaft. This is now available to let me turn up the strap which is a really fun casting to machine   :naughty:

Jo
Title: Re: Stuart No 1
Post by: Jo on February 10, 2019, 04:07:42 PM
The eccentric strap has already been started so I have to keep within its features  :-\ First up is to make sure the clamping face was flat and then to drill and counter bore for the two bolts to hold the two halves together.

I find drawing a circle on the strap useful for setting it up in the four jaw before a quick facing cut then boring to fit the eccentric and cutting the groove using a grooving tool  :naughty: The other side can be faced by clamping round a piece of bar held in the three jaw chuck.

The outside was rounded using the BCA and at the same time I milled the slot for the arm and drilled for the two mounting bolts. A quick mill down either side to check the two outer surfaces are level and the shape is finished with a hand file.

Surus' model engine casting collection building plan shows that this engine should take two months and we are not half way through the planned construction time.....he is going to see this as an opportunity to justify buying him more castings  :facepalm:


Eric  :Director:   Where's those pics of your crankshaft your were promising  :stickpoke:

Jo

Title: Re: Stuart No 1
Post by: b.lindsey on February 10, 2019, 04:20:43 PM
There shouldn't be too much left Jo. Not surprising that you are well ahead of schedule. Looking forward to seeing it run.

Bill
Title: Re: Stuart No 1
Post by: Jo on February 10, 2019, 07:01:39 PM
All the remaining bits are sitting in front of the engine Bill, except the studs  :facepalm: and their nuts  ::)

Jo

P.S. Eric we are still waiting :stickpoke: 
Title: Re: Stuart No 1
Post by: steam guy willy on February 10, 2019, 07:47:42 PM
hi Jo  possibly lots of studs with their nuts watching !!!  What is the paint colour btw

 :popcorn: :popcorn:

wily
Title: Re: Stuart No 1
Post by: kev on February 10, 2019, 11:45:11 PM
love the internal grooving tool Jo, any info on it?
Title: Re: Stuart No 1
Post by: Jo on February 11, 2019, 07:21:20 AM
Hi Kev, sorry no I acquired it in a box of boring bar tools  :-\



Eric waited until late yesterday to send me through his pics.

He carefully turned up a jig to do his crank web turning on and has got as far as loctiting the crank.

Jo
Title: Re: Stuart No 1
Post by: Jo on February 11, 2019, 05:30:25 PM
This casting set did not come with the valve arms so I am using a spare one from the No 5s.

The first job is to mill it flat and drill/tap for the bolts. Then the two sides were tapered and the ends rounded over using buttons screwed into the threaded holes in the arm.

The last bit of machining was the slot. Then it was just a case of giving it a little polish before checking the fit.

I am going to have to start working on the fixings at some point, those temporary screws look  :facepalm:

Jo
Title: Re: Stuart No 1
Post by: bent on February 11, 2019, 06:06:47 PM
Wow, you are a speedy machinist Jo!

A question, any reason besides esthetics to machine the backside of the valve eccentric "square" (vs. leaving the as-cast radius)?  Also, no paint on the cylinder/valve chest - is that because there are exposed internal passages?
Title: Re: Stuart No 1
Post by: Jo on February 11, 2019, 06:16:16 PM
Thanks bent,

The eccentric could have been machined with a radius but may have looked a little lopsided as it went round.

The cylinder is due to be clad and I have not yet decided if I am going to paint the chest... The cladding is blued steel which might look better with a CI chest. Which reminds me Eric has the Blued Steel  :thinking:


Update from Eric he has been shopping rather than making swarf :hellno:

Jo

Title: Re: Stuart No 1
Post by: Jo on February 11, 2019, 09:41:45 PM
Clearly my earlier comment worked  :naughty: as Eric has been out doing a bit more on his engine. He has split the crank and has the bearings in place  :ThumbsUp:

Jo
Title: Re: Stuart No 1
Post by: b.lindsey on February 11, 2019, 10:29:54 PM
Nice work on both engines.

Bill
Title: Re: Stuart No 1
Post by: ChuckKey on February 12, 2019, 09:18:05 AM
Would I be right in thinking there is a little procrastination going on over the support column?
Title: Re: Stuart No 1
Post by: Jo on February 12, 2019, 09:23:25 AM
No.

The agreement is that we do the support columns once we know that everything else lines up and goes round and round smoothly as any position adjustment on anything else alters the required length of the rod and the position of the hole on the bottom cover or the stud holes on the sole plate  ;)

Jo
Title: Re: Stuart No 1
Post by: Stuart on February 12, 2019, 11:10:02 AM
Looking good there Jo

Great pics and narration

Stuart
Title: Re: Stuart No 1
Post by: Jo on February 12, 2019, 02:02:57 PM
Thanks Stuart, hopefully it will provide a bit of a modern view on Andrew Smith's original book which described making this engine on just a lathe  :o


The valve was just on dimensions  :paranoia: So it had to be machined very carefully to leave the sides of the valve square. The slot on the top of the valve was already over 4mm wide but the bottom of the slot was tight enough for the nut. Then the hole for the spindle can be drilled. The later drawing show the hole at 4.76mm diameter    :facepalm: the earlier one as 5.5mm, we need the hole to be bigger than the spindle as we want the valve to float like a butterfly.. If it is tight you will either get the fault that the valve will not follow the port face or that it stick too far out  :toilet_claw:

The valve pocket is also tight  :ShakeHead: and the original drawing show it being cut with a radius. I could see no value in the radius so I went for a normal slot drill cut pocket and squared up on the valve pocket size.

We can now check the fit of the valve in the steam chest and as you can see it is too tight so the inside of the chest needs to be milled out. We can then try the fit on the side of the cylinder to check if the movement of the valve hits the chest at all.

Jo

Title: Re: Stuart No 1
Post by: Jo on February 14, 2019, 08:54:09 AM
Some of you have mentioned that I failed to do anything yesterday  :facepalm2: sorry I will try to do better. To that end Eric has challenged me to take along this engine to see him next Wednesday so we can have an engine running session so I will be back in the workshop today trying to get some progress  :)


In the meantime any one visiting should be aware that Surus is camped out by the front door in case I get any 'visitors' who he suspects might have wine/chocolates and castings for me  :noidea:

Jo
Title: Re: Stuart No 1
Post by: Stuart on February 14, 2019, 09:46:39 AM
Havenít you received it/them yet

Tell Surus that they may be soft so do not squeeze them to hard


Happy Valentineís Day

My birthday is tomorrow 72 times round the big ball , people ask me how I feel I tel them I do not not how I should feel I have never been this old before

Have a good valentines machining day

88ís

Stuart
Title: Re: Stuart No 1
Post by: Jo on February 14, 2019, 10:54:07 AM
Havenít you received it/them yet

 :disappointed: I am having to resort to opening a box of Jaffa cakes to eat on my own  :(

Thanks Stuart, have a nice Birthday for tomorrow  :)


Starting from the bottom surface I machined the 8 degree slope on the bit where the leg needs to go. Then turned the cover over to do the top.

I thought it was prudent to check the alignment once more before drilling the hole at 8 degrees. The drawing shows it is 7.14mm for a 6.35mm thread so there is a bit of wiggle room  :paranoia:

Having checked the distance between the soleplate and the bottom cover it is time to start on that leg  :noidea:

Jo

Title: Re: Stuart No 1
Post by: Jo on February 14, 2019, 02:38:09 PM
The starting point on the leg is to get it to length and to check it was right before any shaping up.

In case anyone missed it I repeat again: these forged bits from Stuart are horrible to machine  :disappointed: Turning the taper left a finish like an old gramophone record, which had to be finished by rotating the rod and using a file  :-X

Mounting the leg up in Tgs indexing head meant it was possible to mill the two sides parallel and to width. Leaving two holes to drill at the correct spacing in the end.

The only problem I can see is that the standard size nut for the thread on the end of the leg won't fit so it will have to be made smaller.


That was the last bit of machining...there may be a little fettling to go, the cladding and an adapter for the compressor so there is nothing for it - it is studs and their nuts time :toilet_claw:

Jo
Title: Re: Stuart No 1
Post by: b.lindsey on February 14, 2019, 02:46:33 PM
Almost there now. Its looking great too Jo. The studs and nuts shouldn't be an issue for you  ;)

Bill
Title: Re: Stuart No 1
Post by: Jo on February 14, 2019, 04:35:18 PM
Its a shame Bill I can't pick up the cladding for another week so it won't get finally finished just yet  :-\


It might be time to start negotiation on the next set of castings    :cartwheel:

Jo
Title: Re: Stuart No 1
Post by: b.lindsey on February 14, 2019, 04:36:39 PM
UmmmÖ.would that be from Surus' stockpile or are you bypassing him completely :)

Bill
Title: Re: Stuart No 1
Post by: bent on February 14, 2019, 06:19:33 PM
Well that was quick!  Looks darn good, too.
Title: Re: Stuart No 1
Post by: Jo on February 14, 2019, 06:57:48 PM
Thanks bent,

Bill I had hoped that at least one casting set might have been dropped off for me today but  :disappointed: The visit to my supplier next week may bring the odd set to light but I doubt it so we are back negotiating as to what I might be allowed :noidea:

Jo
Title: Re: Stuart No 1
Post by: Jo on February 14, 2019, 08:18:17 PM
Some more pics from Eric  :)

Jo
Title: Re: Stuart No 1
Post by: Roger B on February 14, 2019, 08:25:05 PM
That leg is really quite a tricky bit to get right  :headscratch: It was quite a common feature though, maybe it was easier/cheaper than a A frame casting (is it a or an  :headscratch: I've been away too long).
Title: Re: Stuart No 1
Post by: Jo on February 17, 2019, 11:34:13 AM
Its also tricky when trying to assemble the engine Roger as the nut has to be threaded on before the bottom plate goes home else the cylinder gets in the way.


Over the last couple of days I've been studding  :) you can see that are real studs not those horrible bits of threaded rod poked in the holes that you sometimes see :hellno:


The assembly of the engine  got as far as to allow a bit of round and round with up and down testing to be done with the cylinders on. Then I realised that she was only puffing out of one of the blow downs and not the ports  :facepalm: Time to disassemble and poke around in the ports to get the casting sand out  :toilet_claw:

Jo
Title: Re: Stuart No 1
Post by: steamer on February 17, 2019, 02:33:30 PM
That leg is really quite a tricky bit to get right  :headscratch: It was quite a common feature though, maybe it was easier/cheaper than a A frame casting (is it a or an  :headscratch: I've been away too long).

The column on the far side, was to allow the operator or engineer to have easy access to the bearings for inspection and lubrication    Traditionally, on marine applications, it was the starboard side.    In Naval applications, it was often both sides to minimize weight, but it made for some rather "flexible" engines.   You will often see naval engines with all round columns, and be also festooned with diagonal braces as well.     In some of these applications, you wore slickers when your were in the engine room.... later, they covered the crank pit with sheet metal and ran pressurized lubrication and water cooling of bearings..

Dave
Title: Re: Stuart No 1
Post by: steamer on February 17, 2019, 02:34:04 PM
I can almost hear it running Jo......   It's close!

Dave
Title: Re: Stuart No 1
Post by: Jo on February 17, 2019, 03:29:29 PM
Sorry but I won't be today Dave as I started feeling tired  :old: and I ban myself from the workshop if I start feeling tired that's when mistakes happen

Jo
Title: Re: Stuart No 1
Post by: b.lindsey on February 17, 2019, 03:31:11 PM
So maybe Surus will allow you to spend the afternoon fondling castings instead :)

Bill
Title: Re: Stuart No 1
Post by: steamer on February 17, 2019, 03:32:46 PM
Sorry but I won't be today Dave as I started feeling tired  :old: and I ban myself from the workshop if I start feeling tired that's when mistakes happen

Jo

YUP   the whole crew caught the creeping crud Friday night....so we're all in low gear, 4wd..... :ThumbsDown: :disappointed:
Title: Re: Stuart No 1
Post by: Jo on February 18, 2019, 04:41:10 PM
A bit more progress. I think another day and I may be able to finish all the studs  :thinking:

It would have been finished in time for the planned engine running day on Wednesday but it has been cancelled   :Director:

Jo
Title: Re: Stuart No 1
Post by: steamer on February 18, 2019, 04:55:49 PM
Steamer want big Vrooom!

 8)
Title: Re: Stuart No 1
Post by: Admiral_dk on February 18, 2019, 05:24:28 PM
Looks great - finish line in plain view now  :cheers:
Title: Re: Stuart No 1
Post by: Jo on February 18, 2019, 05:53:08 PM
Steamer want big Vrooom!

I'm hoping for a chuff, chuff, chuff.  Currently as I turn her over I get a puff, puff, puff out of the open blow down holes  ::)


Thanks Per  :)

Jo
Title: Re: Stuart No 1
Post by: b.lindsey on February 18, 2019, 10:35:35 PM
If it goes vroom instead I will be worried  :lolb:

Bill
Title: Re: Stuart No 1
Post by: steamer on February 18, 2019, 11:39:35 PM
If it goes vroom instead I will be worried  :lolb:

Bill

Depends on Boiler pressure.........
Title: Re: Stuart No 1
Post by: Stuart on February 19, 2019, 07:15:03 AM
Steamer want big Vrooom!

I'm hoping for a chuff, chuff, chuff.  Currently as I turn her over I get a puff, puff, puff out of the open blow down holes  ::)


Thanks Per  :)
Must have the magic dragon in there Jo  :)

Stuart


Jo
Title: Re: Stuart No 1
Post by: Jo on February 19, 2019, 02:54:40 PM
More pics from Eric.

Jo
Title: Re: Stuart No 1
Post by: Jo on February 19, 2019, 02:57:01 PM
More Eric pics  :).

Update on my engine: it is going round and round by air   :) But I have compressor problems  :toilet_claw:

Jo
Title: Re: Stuart No 1
Post by: b.lindsey on February 19, 2019, 02:58:47 PM
What kind of compressor problems?
Bill
Title: Re: Stuart No 1
Post by: Jo on February 19, 2019, 03:04:51 PM
The tree cutting boys who borrowed it have jammed the regulator valve fully down and it is no longer adjustable :Mad: the result is the No 1 tries to have your fingers off  :paranoia:

Jo
Title: Re: Stuart No 1
Post by: Bluechip on February 19, 2019, 03:50:14 PM
The tree cutting boys who borrowed it have jammed the regulator valve fully down and it is no longer adjustable :Mad: the result is the No 1 tries to have your fingers off  :paranoia:

Jo

What sort of regulator ??

The  'one in / one out ' sort or the type with 3 ports & elec. contacts therein ?????

Dave
Title: Re: Stuart No 1
Post by: steamer on February 19, 2019, 03:57:08 PM
The tree cutting boys who borrow5ed it have jammed the regulator valve fully down and it is no longer adjustable :Mad: the result is the No 1 tries to have your fingers off  :paranoia:

Jo

We DID get a VROOM! :lolb:
Title: Re: Stuart No 1
Post by: Jo on February 19, 2019, 04:18:17 PM
What sort of regulator ??

The  'one in / one out ' sort or the type with 3 ports & elec. contacts therein ?????

The one which has 120 PSI in and lets you wind the output down to 0 PSI, rather than straight through 120 PSI  :paranoia:

Its not safe running a steam engine at 120 PSI  :hellno:

Jo
Title: Re: Stuart No 1
Post by: steamer on February 19, 2019, 04:21:48 PM
What sort of regulator ??

The  'one in / one out ' sort or the type with 3 ports & elec. contacts therein ?????

The one which has 120 PSI in and lets you wind the output down to 0 PSI, rather than straight through 120 PSI  :paranoia:

Its not safe running a steam engine at 120 PSI  :hellno:



Jo

Strapped to the bench, and with 160 psi air, the engine in my boat sounds like a Japanese  motorcycle in full song spinning about 2000 rpm.   LOL :lolb:  Ask me how I know this?
Title: Re: Stuart No 1
Post by: crueby on February 19, 2019, 04:27:55 PM
What sort of regulator ??

The  'one in / one out ' sort or the type with 3 ports & elec. contacts therein ?????

The one which has 120 PSI in and lets you wind the output down to 0 PSI, rather than straight through 120 PSI  :paranoia:

Its not safe running a steam engine at 120 PSI  :hellno:



Jo

Strapped to the bench, and with 160 psi air, the engine in my boat sounds like a Japanese  motorcycle in full song spinning about 2000 rpm.   LOL :lolb:  Ask me how I know this?
Sounds like a test preceeded by 'here, hold my beer!"   :Lol:
Title: Re: Stuart No 1
Post by: steamer on February 19, 2019, 04:29:02 PM
Beer may have been involved..... :paranoia:

What happens in the machine shop at work...stays in the machine shop at work....just sayin.
Title: Re: Stuart No 1
Post by: crueby on February 19, 2019, 04:31:30 PM
Beer may have been involved..... :paranoia:

What happens in the machine shop at work...stays in the machine shop at work....just sayin.
All stays in the shop, except for the bits flying through the window....!
Title: Re: Stuart No 1
Post by: steamer on February 19, 2019, 04:34:38 PM
Nope   None of that....ran like that for 10 minutes.....that's when the building air compressor got unhappy....   8)

It would have taken your fingers off at the shoulder...... :zap:
Title: Re: Stuart No 1
Post by: Bluechip on February 19, 2019, 04:41:58 PM
What sort of regulator ??

The  'one in / one out ' sort or the type with 3 ports & elec. contacts therein ?????

The one which has 120 PSI in and lets you wind the output down to 0 PSI, rather than straight through 120 PSI  :paranoia:

Its not safe running a steam engine at 120 PSI  :hellno:

Jo

Like this:

1/4" BSP in / out  wind the knobby wotsit to desired pressure and then lock with nut underneath ??

Martonair, used to have it on my bead blaster     ;D

Dave

PS No, I don't know why the date is crook ....  :headscratch:
Title: Re: Stuart No 1
Post by: Jasonb on February 19, 2019, 04:44:26 PM
Put a kink in the hose, that will soon slow it down ;)
Title: Re: Stuart No 1
Post by: steamer on February 19, 2019, 04:46:02 PM
Put a kink in the hose, that will soon slow it down ;)

Just a ball valve will work fine.   
Title: Re: Stuart No 1
Post by: Jasonb on February 19, 2019, 04:54:32 PM
Or better still use the regulator manifold you made earlier

(http://www.modelenginemaker.com/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=5962.0;attach=60749;image)
Title: Re: Stuart No 1
Post by: steamer on February 19, 2019, 04:56:28 PM
^^^^  there ya go!
Title: Re: Stuart No 1
Post by: Jo on February 19, 2019, 05:00:36 PM
I was thinking of a new compressor  ::)

I just have to decide which one  :noidea:

Jo
Title: Re: Stuart No 1
Post by: b.lindsey on February 19, 2019, 05:05:31 PM
I vote for a quiet one   ;)

Bill
Title: Re: Stuart No 1
Post by: steamer on February 19, 2019, 05:22:29 PM
I was thinking of a new compressor  ::)

I just have to decide which one  :noidea:

Jo

That's on my list as well....
Title: Re: Stuart No 1
Post by: Jo on February 19, 2019, 05:25:00 PM
The problem with the 'silent' ones they have very little output volume. I was thinking belt driven this time  :noidea:

This one should be able to run any of my engines up to the Commander which has a 75mm bore  :thinking:

Jo
Title: Re: Stuart No 1
Post by: Roger B on February 19, 2019, 05:27:58 PM
So where's the video of the Vrooom  ;)
Title: Re: Stuart No 1
Post by: b.lindsey on February 19, 2019, 05:36:40 PM
I've got a 5 hp, 60 gallon tank one at the shop. Belt driven but still noisy. Having it in that closet area helps, but it's still loud. I will use the quiet one for most things, but yeah...a 75mm bore will take some volume!!

Bill
Title: Re: Stuart No 1
Post by: Craig DeShong on February 20, 2019, 02:15:40 AM
The tree cutting boys who borrowed it have jammed the regulator valve fully down and it is no longer adjustable :Mad: the result is the No 1 tries to have your fingers off  :paranoia:

Jo

 :o. Well, at least you know it runs  :embarassed:
Title: Re: Stuart No 1
Post by: 10KPete on February 20, 2019, 02:42:28 AM
Well, I guess it's a good thing you're an engineer, Jo. That means you can fix it!

Just what you need to keep you busy..... :paranoia:

 :cheers:

Pete
Title: Re: Stuart No 1
Post by: Jo on February 20, 2019, 07:40:24 AM
Well, I guess it's a good thing you're an engineer, Jo. That means you can fix it!

Just what you need to keep you busy..... :paranoia:

Its a time problem Pete: When you are retired you just don't have the spare time you had when you were at work   :embarassed:

Need to find some time to choose a new compressor and check it will fit somewhere  :thinking:

Jo
Title: Re: Stuart No 1
Post by: ChuckKey on February 20, 2019, 09:40:44 AM
Do you (or the elephant) have a set of Stuart compressor castings?
Title: Re: Stuart No 1
Post by: Gas_mantle on February 20, 2019, 09:50:29 AM
Can't you rig up something as a temporary measure just so we can see the engine running  :)
Title: Re: Stuart No 1
Post by: Jo on February 20, 2019, 01:30:48 PM
The engine is back in pieces.... a compressor valve has been ordered.

The first video I did I forgot to put on the valve guide  :facepalm:


Still thinking about a new compressor: hydrovanes look nice.. except the price  :paranoia:

Jo
Title: Re: Stuart No 1
Post by: b.lindsey on February 20, 2019, 01:38:17 PM
Quote
Its a time problem Pete: When you are retired you just don't have the spare time you had when you were at work
Jo


Ain't that the truth!!

Bill
Title: Re: Stuart No 1
Post by: Jo on February 20, 2019, 03:21:13 PM
Can someone let me know how to rotate videos... I am sure UTube used to do in but I can't find it  :facepalm:

Dz23z1jpf98
Jo
Title: Re: Stuart No 1
Post by: Roger B on February 20, 2019, 03:23:51 PM
Excellent  :praise2:  :praise2: I just turned my laptop on its end, no problem  :)
Title: Re: Stuart No 1
Post by: Jasonb on February 20, 2019, 03:26:38 PM
Hold your phone the right way to start with.

Runs well
Title: Re: Stuart No 1
Post by: Jo on February 20, 2019, 03:39:02 PM
My mobile phone doesn't take photographs  :hellno:


I can fit a 100ltrs tank compressor inside the main garage or a 150ltrs one if I put it outside. This one looks interesting:

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/100-Litre-Air-Compressor-14-6CFM-3HP-100L-Belt-Drive-Twin-cylinder/352371734205?hash=item520afdf6bd:g:xjgAAOSwVoNcMtT7

 :thinking:

Jo
Title: Re: Stuart No 1
Post by: Jasonb on February 20, 2019, 03:44:19 PM
I thought you may have used it to take the video as that is often what caused them to be rotated.

On youtube goto my channel, then bottom left go back to the old classic view, select videos and it should list yours down the page with EDIT and a downwards arrow next to that. Click the arrow and select enhancements from that list, the screen that then comes up will have rotate options.
Title: Re: Stuart No 1
Post by: Gas_mantle on February 20, 2019, 03:59:04 PM
Yay, we have a runner thanks  :)

As for the rotating of videos, I think youtube must have altered the software as I also used to be able rotate but no longer have that option.
Title: Re: Stuart No 1
Post by: Bluechip on February 20, 2019, 04:00:53 PM
My mobile phone doesn't take photographs  :hellno:


I can fit a 100ltrs tank compressor inside the main garage or a 150ltrs one if I put it outside. This one looks interesting:

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/100-Litre-Air-Compressor-14-6CFM-3HP-100L-Belt-Drive-Twin-cylinder/352371734205?hash=item520afdf6bd:g:xjgAAOSwVoNcMtT7

 :thinking:

Jo

How robust is your leccy supply ??  A 3HP motor is pushing a ring main  :thinking:  Usually has to have a 32A socket on a dedicated 30A C curve breaker.

Look at the bottom end of this ad  ... this is the compressor a mate has in his chippy shop for nailers / sanders etc.

14 CFM Piston Displacement  gives  some 2/3rds of that FAD  IIRC

https://www.sgs-engineering.com/sc90b-90-litre-air-compressor-14cfm

Dave
Title: Re: Stuart No 1
Post by: Jasonb on February 20, 2019, 04:02:11 PM
Yay, we have a runner thanks  :)

As for the rotating of videos, I think youtube must have altered the software as I also used to be able rotate but no longer have that option.

Go back to the old classic studio rather than the Beta
Title: Re: Stuart No 1
Post by: Jo on February 20, 2019, 04:10:55 PM
How robust is your leccy supply ??  A 3HP motor is pushing a ring main  :thinking:  Usually has to have a 32A socket on a dedicated 30A C curve breaker.

Look at the bottom end of this ad  ... this is the compressor a mate has in his chippy shop for nailers / sanders etc.

14 CFM Piston Displacement  gives  some 2/3rds of that FAD  IIRC

https://www.sgs-engineering.com/sc90b-90-litre-air-compressor-14cfm

Dave

I have a 45A supply to the three phase transformer, larger supply to the workshop than to the house  :lolb:.

I have found a 'quiet' one for a couple more beer tokens:

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Air-Compressor-100L-3HP-Oil-free-Compressor-Low-noise-Silent-65dB/352437614634?hash=item520eeb382a:g:DKcAAOSwpTBb~8Wt

Jo
Title: Re: Stuart No 1
Post by: Gas_mantle on February 20, 2019, 04:16:08 PM

Go back to the old classic studio rather than the Beta

I've tried that but even in Classic mode the rotation option has gone.
Title: Re: Stuart No 1
Post by: Jasonb on February 20, 2019, 04:16:46 PM
Don't think that is a silent as the fridge type compressor ones which are around 40DB and as sound is logarithmic there will be quite a difference but still less that a standard one. Also volume drops so once tank is used up you will be running all the time trying to catch up.
Title: Re: Stuart No 1
Post by: b.lindsey on February 20, 2019, 04:17:23 PM
Very nice result Jo, thanks for posting the video!

Bill
Title: Re: Stuart No 1
Post by: b.lindsey on February 20, 2019, 04:24:09 PM
That last link you posted looks to have heads similar to the California Air Compressor line. With three heads and two pistons per head it should recover pretty quickly and they really are much quieter!!

Bill
Title: Re: Stuart No 1
Post by: ChuckKey on February 20, 2019, 05:40:21 PM
This is basically the same thing as your first choice only a bit cheaper:

https://www.amazon.co.uk/Wolf-Dakota-150psi-Cylinder-Compressor/dp/B007VOLOHG/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1550684016&sr=8-1&keywords=wolf+dakota+compressor

I bought one a couple of years ago. It is much quiter than the horrid little thing I had before. Does need a 16A plug though.
Title: Re: Stuart No 1
Post by: steamer on February 20, 2019, 05:46:43 PM
Shes a runnah!!! :cartwheel: :praise2:
Good job Jo!
Title: Re: Stuart No 1
Post by: Jo on February 20, 2019, 06:01:17 PM
Thanks Dave  :)


Ok money spent  :)

Following discussion with my supplier: I have brought the compressor I originally posted the link to. It claims to be able 7dB quieter than the other oil compressors of similar size. It is not as quiet as the diaphragm compressor which I had the sound described as if it was constantly farting in the corner  :facepalm2: and the diaphragms break - there are 6 opportunities to break in that one.

The other advantage of a belted compressor is it can go outside if I can't stand the sound  ::)

Jo
Title: Re: Stuart No 1
Post by: b.lindsey on February 20, 2019, 06:21:59 PM
Not important since the decision is made but I think you will find that the quiet oilless compressor is not a diaphragm compressor, at least mine isn't.

Bill
Title: Re: Stuart No 1
Post by: steamer on February 20, 2019, 07:15:29 PM
Many of these are scroll compressors
Title: Re: Stuart No 1
Post by: bent on February 20, 2019, 08:05:13 PM
Nice runner, Jo!
Title: Re: Stuart No 1
Post by: john mills on February 20, 2019, 08:44:53 PM
nice to see it running
Title: Re: Stuart No 1
Post by: Admiral_dk on February 20, 2019, 09:22:42 PM
Congratulations Jo - it runs very well  :cheers:
Title: Re: Stuart No 1
Post by: Jo on February 20, 2019, 09:36:45 PM
Thanks Guys, it is still a little lumpy   :-\

And it will be another 3 weeks before I get the blued steel cladding that I have been told it should have  :noidea:

Jo
Title: Re: Stuart No 1
Post by: Jo on February 20, 2019, 09:39:52 PM
Do you (or the elephant) have a set of Stuart compressor castings?

The Stuart compressor is a little small to run the Commander  ::) and I still needed a tank.

Jo

P.S. Yes there is a set out there somewhere but don't let Surus know  :-X
Title: Re: Stuart No 1
Post by: Craig DeShong on February 21, 2019, 12:45:05 AM
Runs great Jo, thanks for posting.  :ThumbsUp:
Title: Re: Stuart No 1
Post by: Dave Otto on February 21, 2019, 12:55:26 AM
Congrats Jo!
She looks great!


Dave
Title: Re: Stuart No 1
Post by: Kim on February 21, 2019, 01:13:16 AM
Very nice engine, Jo! Love to see it running!  :ThumbsUp:
Kim
Title: Re: Stuart No 1
Post by: jeff l on February 21, 2019, 01:18:23 AM
Very nice engine .
Title: Re: Stuart No 1
Post by: 10KPete on February 21, 2019, 02:07:40 AM
See, you fixed it!

 :cheers:

Pete
Title: Re: Stuart No 1
Post by: Robert Hornby on February 21, 2019, 03:03:15 AM
First class work Jo, truly a work of engineering art. Will you be running it on steam?  :wine1: :cheers:
Robert
Title: Re: Stuart No 1
Post by: Jo on February 21, 2019, 06:04:25 AM
Thanks Guys  :) That was just a first run. I have no plans to run on Steam - I like making engines not running them as I quickly get bored with them going round and round  ::)


I might have found another model engine to work on  :naughty:

Jo
Title: Re: Stuart No 1
Post by: kvom on February 21, 2019, 11:52:32 AM
I like horizontal engines better than verticals anyway.  Nice runner.   :ThumbsUp:
Title: Re: Stuart No 1
Post by: Jo on February 22, 2019, 08:42:04 AM
Eric has been busy and has finished his con rod and is now working on the big end bearings.

Jo
Title: Re: Stuart No 1
Post by: Mike Bondarczuk on February 22, 2019, 10:07:01 AM
Hi Jo,

A very nicely running engine and well done as usual  :pinkelephant:

Mike
Title: Re: Stuart No 1
Post by: Jo on February 27, 2019, 08:49:21 PM
Eric has provided some more pics, he is getting on well. He has even done the valve rod guide  :)

Jo
Title: Re: Stuart No 1
Post by: Jo on March 01, 2019, 04:35:56 PM
The new compressor has arrived  :whoohoo: A bit more fitting out and I can try to No 1 on a better air pressure  ::)


Other than the rattily cage that needed a rubber wedge to discourage it dancing, it is a lot quieter than the older compressor :ThumbsUp: and it is currently running happily off a standard 13A socket so I am wondering why I plumbed in a new 32A supply for it  :noidea:

Jo
Title: Re: Stuart No 1
Post by: Jasonb on March 01, 2019, 05:52:56 PM
Looks good

Talking of plumbing will you run a hard airline to the workshop with a couple of take off points or just run out a long hose when you need it.

I wonder if it will be powerful enough for a small blast cabinet, ideal for removing that nasty protective coating that your castings and bar stock seem to collect :LittleDevil:
Title: Re: Stuart No 1
Post by: Jo on March 01, 2019, 06:21:30 PM
I already have a couple of long hoses so I was going to use those for now. I do not like using compressed air on machine tools it blows swarf into nooks and crannies  :hellno:

Yes it is powerful enough for a good sized blast cabinet  :-X

Jo
Title: Re: Stuart No 1
Post by: bent on March 01, 2019, 07:15:38 PM
Did that fit in the boot of the MX-5, or did it ride home in the passenger seat?  :Lol: 
Title: Re: Stuart No 1
Post by: crueby on March 01, 2019, 07:25:14 PM
Did that fit in the boot of the MX-5, or did it ride home in the passenger seat?  :Lol:
Come on, everyone knows big items go on the roof rack!
(https://i.postimg.cc/QdPhX3PQ/Image3.jpg)
Whats that? Not a roof rack? Whats a roll bar? :Lol:
Title: Re: Stuart No 1
Post by: Jo on March 01, 2019, 07:40:55 PM
I am not sure if I want Minx going round with her top off doing things like that Chris she'll attract the wrong sort of attention :o

Thankfully I have a choice of cars to use  ::) but the new compressor came with two strong handsome men who I was loathed to let go home before I had used and abused sweet talked into carrying the compressor up to my garage.

Jo

P.S. Did anyone mention the luggage rack is on the wrong way round  :-X
Title: Re: Stuart No 1
Post by: Admiral_dk on March 01, 2019, 07:50:09 PM
The new compressor looks great Jo  :cheers:

You mention how low noise it emits - does that mean that it is so good you would allow it into the shop if you had not had the space elsewhere ?

If so - what brand and model ?
Title: Re: Stuart No 1
Post by: b.lindsey on March 01, 2019, 07:50:53 PM
Nice looking compressor Jo. Happy to hear it is quieter too. Should provide years of good service for you.

Bill
Title: Re: Stuart No 1
Post by: Jo on March 01, 2019, 08:30:11 PM
You mention how low noise it emits - does that mean that it is so good you would allow it into the shop if you had not had the space elsewhere ?

 :thinking: Its no where near as piercing as the other compressor, but it still sounds like another electric motor running in the workshop. It would be more tolerable in the workshop than the little screaming noisy one but a silent one would be preferred but they don't have the volume output.

I posted a link to it a couple of pages back Per https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/100-Litre-Air-Compressor-14-6CFM-3HP-100L-Belt-Drive-Twin-cylinder/352371734205?hash=item520afdf6bd:g:xjgAAOSwVoNcMtT7 .. they are located in Belgium..... and they have put the price up £20 since I brought mine  :disappointed:

Jo
Title: Re: Stuart No 1
Post by: Jo on March 01, 2019, 08:31:50 PM
Thanks Bill, I'm hopeful  :)

I am going to refurbish the noisy one to take to shows  :naughty: or use as a portable compressor.

Jo
Title: Re: Stuart No 1
Post by: Jo on March 06, 2019, 05:44:51 PM
I took my No 1 over to see Eric today and we had it running on 15 PSI  :) The valve timing is slightly off so it would still have your fingers off given half a chance  :ShakeHead:

Eric is getting on well with his engine, he was missing the eccentric castings from his set and ordered some from Stuarts but they sent out a reject  :o the bronze had not flowed fully and part of it was missing so is waiting for another. He is also short of a flywheel but has a slightly wider/ smaller diameter one which we both agreed would look better than the original No 1 one which is fitted to my engine.

Eric is hoping to take his finished engine along to the Southern Counties Traction Engine Group meeting next week  :ThumbsUp:

Jo
Title: Re: Stuart No 1
Post by: Jo on March 13, 2019, 08:31:24 AM
Eric has bushed and fitted his flywheel. He has started turning up the leg (still has the two flats to do on the lower end.

The engine is coming together but I am not sure he will have it finished by Saturday  :noidea:

Jo