Model Engine Maker

Supporting => Vehicles & Models => Topic started by: Kim on October 19, 2018, 01:58:26 AM

Title: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Kim on October 19, 2018, 01:58:26 AM
After I started the build, I wished I'd left space for an index.  Since I didn't, I'm adding it to the beginning of my intro post.The actual introduction starts right after the build index. Please skip up there if you don't want to read the index :)

Index of Kim's Kozo's Pennsy A3 Switcher Build:

Chapter 2: Tender Wheels
Chapter 2.1 - Tender Wheels - Reply 20 (http://www.modelenginemaker.com/index.php/topic,8552.msg186561.html#msg186561)
Chapter 2.2 - Tender Axles - Reply 105 (http://www.modelenginemaker.com/index.php?topic=8552.msg189853#msg189853)

Chapter 3: Tender Truck Frames
Chapter 3.1 - Journal Boxes - Reply 116 (http://www.modelenginemaker.com/index.php/topic,8552.msg190533.html#msg190533)
Chapter 3.2 - Journal Bearings - Reply 142 (http://www.modelenginemaker.com/index.php/topic,8552.msg190980.html#msg190980)
Chapter 3.3 - Columns - Reply 157 (http://www.modelenginemaker.com/index.php/topic,8552.msg191121.html#msg191121)
Chapter 3.4 - Bolsters and Side Bearings - Reply 170 (http://www.modelenginemaker.com/index.php/topic,8552.msg191521.html#msg191521)
Chapter 3.5 - Tie Bars and Arch Bars - Reply 201 (http://www.modelenginemaker.com/index.php/topic,8552.msg193364.html#msg193364)
Chapter 3.6 - Coil Springs - Reply 234 (http://www.modelenginemaker.com/index.php/topic,8552.msg195959.html#msg195959)

Chapter 4: Tender Frame
Chapter 4.1 - Side Sills - Reply 251 (http://www.modelenginemaker.com/index.php/topic,8552.msg196863.html#msg196863)
Chapter 4.2 – Front End Sill and Rear End Sill - Reply 262 (http://www.modelenginemaker.com/index.php/topic,8552.msg198276.html#msg198276)
Chapter 4.3 – Front and Rear Bolster - Reply 296 (http://www.modelenginemaker.com/index.php/topic,8552.msg199037.html#msg199037)
Chapter 4.4 – Drawbar Pocket and Drawbar - Reply 298 (http://www.modelenginemaker.com/index.php/topic,8552.msg199408.html#msg199408)
Chapter 4.5 – Front Steps - Reply 303 (http://www.modelenginemaker.com/index.php/topic,8552.msg200154.html#msg200154)
Chapter 4.6 – Step Brackets - Reply 323 (http://www.modelenginemaker.com/index.php/topic,8552.msg201312.html#msg201312)
Chapter 4.7 – Rear Coupler Pocket - Reply 329 (http://www.modelenginemaker.com/index.php/topic,8552.msg201612.html#msg201612)
Chapter 4.8 – Foot Board - Reply 342 (http://www.modelenginemaker.com/index.php/topic,8552.msg202387.html#msg202387)
Chapter 4.9 – Center Pins and Drawbar Pin - Reply 348 (http://www.modelenginemaker.com/index.php/topic,8552.msg203066.html#msg203066)

Chapter 5: Tender Tank
Chapter 5.1 – Tank Floor - Reply 421 (http://www.modelenginemaker.com/index.php/topic,8552.msg205245.html#msg205245)
Chapter 5.2 – Side Plates - Reply 447 (http://www.modelenginemaker.com/index.php/topic,8552.msg206540.html#msg206540)
Chapter 5.3 – Side Corner Members - Reply 463 (http://www.modelenginemaker.com/index.php/topic,8552.msg208179.html#msg208179)
Chapter 5.4 – Bottom Horseshoe Member and Top Horseshoe Member - Reply 475 (http://www.modelenginemaker.com/index.php/topic,8552.msg208566.html#msg208566)
Chapter 5.5 – Verge Board - Reply 480 (http://www.modelenginemaker.com/index.php/topic,8552.msg209328.html#msg209328)
Chapter 5.6 – Vertical Board - Reply 489 (http://www.modelenginemaker.com/index.php/topic,8552.msg209836.html#msg209836)
                       Vertical Board Revisited - Reply 507 (http://www.modelenginemaker.com/index.php/topic,8552.msg210779.html#msg210779)
Chapter 5.7 – Front Plates - Reply 503 (http://www.modelenginemaker.com/index.php/topic,8552.msg210437.html#msg210437)
                       Front Plates Continued - Reply 518 (http://www.modelenginemaker.com/index.php/topic,8552.msg211772.html#msg211772)
Chapter 5.8 – Top Plate - Reply 528 (http://www.modelenginemaker.com/index.php/topic,8552.msg212080.html#msg212080)
Chapter 5.9 – Rear Corner Member - Reply 546 (http://www.modelenginemaker.com/index.php/topic,8552.msg212708.html#msg212708)
Chapter 5.10 – Soft Soldering and Filing the Bottom - Reply 552 (http://www.modelenginemaker.com/index.php/topic,8552.msg213227.html#msg213227)
Chapter 5.11 – Headlight Baseplate and Headlight Base - Reply 573 (http://www.modelenginemaker.com/index.php/topic,8552.msg213687.html#msg213687)
Chapter 5.12 – Coal Stopper - Reply 589 (http://www.modelenginemaker.com/index.php?topic=8552.msg214927#msg214927)
Chapter 5.14 – Dummy Side Plates - Reply 599 (http://www.modelenginemaker.com/index.php/topic,8552.msg215215.html#msg215215)

Chapter 6: Tender Manhole
Chapter 6.1 – Mounting Plate, Manhole Plate, and Lug - Reply 613 (http://www.modelenginemaker.com/index.php/topic,8552.msg216357.html#msg216357)
                       Manhole Plate - Reply 619 (http://www.modelenginemaker.com/index.php/topic,8552.msg216689.html#msg216689)
                       Lug - Reply 629 (http://www.modelenginemaker.com/index.php/topic,8552.msg216977.html#msg216977)
Chapter 6.2 – Manhole - Reply 620 (http://www.modelenginemaker.com/index.php/topic,8552.msg216690.html#msg216690)
Chapter 6.3 – Manhole Cover - Reply 634 (http://www.modelenginemaker.com/index.php/topic,8552.msg217083.html#msg217083)




Welcome everyone, to my introductory post for my new build of Kozo’s Pennsy A3 Switcher!

I’m sure this is no surprise to anyone, since I’ve been talking about it, asking questions about it, and doing some pretty serious planning on it for well over a year now.  But, this is my formal intro to my build thread.  So, if you’re too disappointed, please feel free to skip on past to the next post.  I promise not to be offended.

As an intro post, here is my obligatory photo of what I’m shooting for.  This is the cover photo from Kozo Hiraoka’s book “The Pennsylvania A3 Switcher”. 
(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/001a-Introduction-1-DSC_4895.jpg)

The final engine will be 38” long, 10” high, and 7” wide.  It is a  3.5” gauge, 1:16 scale (3/4” to a foot) model of an 0-4-0 Pennsylvania Switcher Type A3.  The drivers are 3.25” diameter and the cylinder bore is 7/8” with a stroke of 1-1/4".  It will have Walshaerts type valve gear, will be coal-fired with a running pressure of 100psi.  Engine plus tender will weigh-in at about 62 lbs.

So, this will be quite a monster for me!  More than double the size of the steam tractor I did. And a MUCH more serious steam project than I’ve taken on in the past.  But I’m ready and very excited for the challenge!  And isn’t that half the battle right there? (He says with naïve optimism :)).

With that lengthy introduction, let me now introduce you to my BOM spreadsheet.  Kozo’s book is amazingly complete and gives excellent instructions on all his fabrication techniques.  But!  It does not include a bill of materials!  So, what does any self-respecting anal-retentive engineering-type do?  Create a spreadsheet, of course.

I’ve attached my spreadsheet to this post.

If anyone is ever interested in doing this build, I would think having the BOM available would be helpful.  I went through the book, entered every piece of stock as specified by Kozo, broken down by section and part number within the section (and often sub-element of a part within a section).  It includes all fasteners, jigs and the sacrificial screws Kozo uses to hold parts together while silver soldering.  That’s the first sheet. Its labeled “A3 Switcher BOM” and has something like 850 unique lines.

The second sheet is the Materials List.  This has one entry for each type & size of material used and summarized the total number of inches (for bar, rod, hex) or square inches (for sheet material) that are needed for ALL parts using that type of material.  it has more than 350 lines, but only 260 something of them ended up being used in my final version of the BOM.

The actual materials listed are based on “My Material”, not on the type originally specified by Kozo.  He did almost everything with 360 Brass.  I substituted a lot of 1018 (CRS) or 12L14, or even Stainless in some places.  But I did leave Kozo’s originally specified material listed on the first sheet.  And someone could move to using that material if they wanted to.

The completion of my BOM spreadsheet took me almost a year of background work, so was no small task in itself.

Late last week I did an inventory of my stock on hand against this Materials List.  Then I entered that into the spreadsheet and it told me how much of what I needed to purchase.  After that, I went through the spreadsheet and did some more substitutions and combining of lines.  For example, if I need 1” of 5/16” brass, I’d look at changing it to 12L14 or if it needed to be brass (because it comes into contact with water) I would just combine it with the 3/8” brass.  I made some fancy columns to help me combine lines.  Not intuitive, but if anyone's interested I'd be happy to explain it.
(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/001a-Introduction-2-DSC_4862.jpg)

Last weekend, I spent hours placing a big metal order.  I ended up going mainly with On Line Metals, and with Speedy Metals.  On Line Metals generally had better pricing on 1018, Stainless, and Brass, where as Speedy Metals had better prices on 12L14 and had a larger selection of sizes of 1018 than On Line Metals. Unfortunately, shipping from Speedy Metals is 2x more than On Line Metals because they are on the far side of the country from me. But I tried to get it all these two larger orders.  Shipping hurt, but it could have been worse!

And yesterday a bunch of my metal started showing up! This was the bulk of the order from On Line Metals.  Speedy Metals won’t arrive till next week.
(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/001a-Introduction-3-DSC_4869.jpg)

After opening the containers and comparing to the shipping invoice (all correct, BTW) here’s what I’ve gotten so far.  And this is probably about two thirds of what I ordered.
(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/001a-Introduction-4-DSC_4873.jpg)

In addition, there’s a bunch of fasteners, non-metal parts and various new tools I’ll need for this build.  I also kept a list of tools I needed to order for this build.  That’s also one of the sheets in my spreadsheet.  Here’s what’s arrived from that list so far:
(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/001a-Introduction-5-DSC_4907.jpg)

Kozo uses a TON of random sized threads in his build.  He uses 5-40 and 5-44.  He uses 8-32 and 8-36.  I considered standardizing on taps I already had but decided it would be fun to get some new taps anyway.  And I figure he had some reason for using the finer pitched threads, so why not follow his lead, since I’m game for buying another half dozen taps and dies :)

Then one other thing I bought for this build, and am just a little too excited about, is a set of letter & number punches.  I have a very cheap set (cost $10 at a harbor-freight look-alike place) but they are so cheap that they make poor letters. And any of them I’ve used more than once are already getting so flat it's hard to read what gets punched.  This is a set of CH Hansen Letter and Number Punches.  It cost significantly more and had quite good reviews with people saying the punches held up under actual use.  And I’ll say they look much better than my cheapy punches.
(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/001a-Introduction-6-DSC_4908.jpg)
Kozo recommends punching identifying numbers & marks into each piece so that you can get it re-assembled back into the same spot it was designed for. I'm going to try and do that too.


So, wish me well on my next multi-year voyage in the world of Steam Model Engineering!

Thanks,
Kim
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: b.lindsey on October 19, 2018, 02:27:37 AM
This is exciting Kim!!!  I am along for the ride as always!!

Bill
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: crueby on October 19, 2018, 02:30:31 AM
Ooohhh!  Excellent!!!


Great prep work, and nice pile of future swarf. These big projects seem too daunting at first, but one part at a time and its a lot of fun to see come together.


Really looking forward to seeing you go on this one.
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Flyboy Jim on October 19, 2018, 03:21:24 AM
Kim..........this is going to be another great build thread to watch!  :ThumbsUp:

Jim
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: 10KPete on October 19, 2018, 03:27:08 AM
 :whoohoo: :popcorn: :popcorn: :ThumbsUp: :ThumbsUp: :popcorn: :popcorn: :whoohoo:

I don't know whether to laugh or cry.  I've had that book on the shelf right above my desk for over 10 years.

As I age I think of selling it on.

 :cheers:

Pete
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Kim on October 19, 2018, 05:25:12 AM
Thanks guys, it will be great having you along for the build!

:whoohoo: :popcorn: :popcorn: :ThumbsUp: :ThumbsUp: :popcorn: :popcorn: :whoohoo:

I don't know whether to laugh or cry.  I've had that book on the shelf right above my desk for over 10 years.

As I age I think of selling it on.

 :cheers:

Pete
Pete,
You should start your own Pennsy Switcher now!  We could do parallel builds!  Wouldn't that be fun?
I'd love to see you do that :)  :ThumbsUp:
Kim
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Ye-Ole Steam Dude on October 19, 2018, 08:01:04 AM
Hello Kim,

Well I'm on board too, this should be another great ride.  :popcorn:

Have a great day,
Thomas
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Jo on October 19, 2018, 10:21:23 AM
 8)

I do parts lists for my engine as well but I decided it was best not to write down how much it cost  :paranoia: I prefer to just tick that I have it available 

I also like to mark off the date I complete each part - it shows how quickly the engine came together (or how slowly/how long the build gaps were  :facepalm2: )

Jo
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Admiral_dk on October 19, 2018, 12:40:05 PM
Hello Kim

I must admit that I really haven't really commented much in your excellent tractor build (there has been plenty others, so not much need).

I do make BOM for the products we make at work, but - WOW - what a list and amount of work you have put into this one  :praise2:

I will certainly follow this build too  :cheers:  :popcorn:

Best wishes

Per
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Dave Otto on October 19, 2018, 01:59:56 PM
Very cool Kim, I will be looking forward to following your progress.


Dave
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Tennessee Whiskey on October 19, 2018, 02:03:17 PM
Off to a great start Kim. I'll be riding along on this one also.

Whiskey
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Kim on October 19, 2018, 02:44:34 PM
Thanks everyone!
Yeah, I'm pretty pumped about this one.   :cartwheel:


I do parts lists for my engine as well but I decided it was best not to write down how much it cost  :paranoia: I prefer to just tick that I have it available 

I also like to mark off the date I complete each part - it shows how quickly the engine came together (or how slowly/how long the build gaps were  :facepalm2: )
It did give me pause; putting the cost of materials in the sheet.  But it also helped me make some material trade-offs.  Some of the columns I've hidden were a comparison between a "Mostly Brass" model and my hodge-podge version. I hid the columns because I stopped keeping it up at some point and I didn't want to spend the time to fix it.  I figure I saved about 35-40% in cost by avoiding gratuitous use of brass :).  Don't get me wrong - there will still be a lot of brass!  But dramatically less than Kozo uses!


Kim
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Florian Eberhard on October 19, 2018, 06:40:22 PM
Hey Kim - i am checking in too!  :popcorn: :popcorn: :DrinkPint:

I imagine Kozo used brass because it is easier to machine than steel. Especially with small hobby machines. But there's nothing wrong about using other materials if it makes sense or if it doesn't need to be brass.

Now i guess we have to wait for your first swarf pictures.  ;D

Florian
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Kim on October 19, 2018, 08:26:27 PM
Thanks Florian!

Yeah, it shouldn't be too long before I start making Pennsy Switcher swarf.  Still a bit more on the steam tractor to finish up, but that's getting every so close!

Thanks,
Kim
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: crueby on October 19, 2018, 08:55:03 PM
Swarf!

Swarf!

Swarf!

And tractor running video too, of course!   :Lol:
 :cheers:
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: ShopShoe on October 20, 2018, 01:42:47 PM
Jo said:

"I do parts lists for my engine as well but I decided it was best not to write down how much it cost"

When I was restoring cars one of my mentors said:

"Never, NEVER keep track of what it costs or the time involved: It will make you want to do something different."

ShopShoe (Still only keeping track some of the time.)
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: scc on October 20, 2018, 09:52:55 PM
Kim,   I'm really looking forward to a video of your tractor running......Regards         Terry
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Kim on October 22, 2018, 04:01:12 AM
Thanks Terry, me too!  I posted a bunch of pictures of it today, but no steaming video. Not yet anyway :)


Over the weekend I did a little more preparatory work toward my new steam locomotive project.

One thing I did was to change the oil in the lathe.  That took a while and was a messy job.  But its been needing to be done, so now its done. And it gets charged to the Pennsy :)

I also checked in some additional materials.  Metals On Line shipped the Bronze stock I needed, plus the 3/4" copper tube to be used in the boiler.  That big hunk of bronze (2” diameter on the left) is for the cylinders. It wasn't cheap! But it's still about half the price of the castings.  And this way I can screw up several times and still have extra material left over!
(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/001b-Introduction-1-DSC_4916.jpg)

Another thing I did was to experiment on how to make copies of the parts drawings.  I like to have copies of the drawings so that I can have them with me at the machines and see the dimensions I’m working toward.  And of course, I don’t expect the book to remain pristine, but I don’t really want to have it close to production where oil and yuck can get splashed on it.

For other builds I’ve just photocopied the main drawings.  But it can be difficult to hold a book on a photocopier. And with this one, there’s literally hundreds of drawings I’ll want to print out over the course of the build.  So my solution to this problem was to see if I could find a scanning app for my phone that would work. And as it turns out, CamScanner seems to do a pretty good job. You take a picture of the page you want to ‘scan’, and then outline the section of the image you want to extract.  Based on the outline, it rotates and scales the picture to fix keystoning and other image artifacts. Then it filters out the lighting variations to make a nice, clean, black & white image and converts it to a PDF. Here are a few samples that I’ve tried:
(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/001b-Introduction-2-DSC_4919.jpg)

It’s still not like having CAD drawings, but it’s a heck of a lot easier than photocopying each page, that’s for sure. Here’s what they look like printed out.
(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/001b-Introduction-3-DSC_4986.jpg)

The last thing I did today was to go through the pile of screws, fasteners, and miscellaneous hardware and put them in my nifty dividers for little parts.
(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/001b-Introduction-4-DSC_4984.jpg)

You were supposed to be able to see that these are full of various screws and such, but the glare on the plano boxes seems to prevent you from seeing inside. Trust me, there’s a lot of goodies in there now :)

One more significant shipment of metal this week (hopefully tomorrow) and I should be ready to launch forth!

Kim
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: MJM460 on October 22, 2018, 12:37:56 PM
Hi Kim,

Looks like a great start to another amazing build.  I will be following.

If you use an iPhone, the new "Notes" Ap has a great feature to incorporate a document using the camera.  It squares up the document and everything.  You can save it then print it.  Incredibly easy to use and seems to give a good result.

MJM460
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: b.lindsey on October 22, 2018, 02:14:04 PM
Kim, thanks for the   tip on CamScanner. I can see where that would be very useful. With my own 2D drawings I can save them as a .pdf file and that works. This sounds ideal for getting other printed material onto the phone though. WIll be checking that out.

Bill
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Kim on October 28, 2018, 02:10:45 AM
Chapter 2.1 Tender Wheels

What is the saying?  “The journey of 1000 shop sessions begins with the first swarf.”
Or something like that, right? :)

Today I started cutting metal on my Pennsy Switcher!

Earlier in the week the last of my big shipments came in (this one from Speedy Metals).  It had all my big 12L14 bar, which is what I needed to get started.
(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/002a-TenderWheels-1-DSC_4988.jpg)

Because the 2 3/8” round 12L14 stock was destined to be tender wheels.  I needed to slice off eight 1/2" pucks.  That little HF saw really earned his keep today!
(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/002a-TenderWheels-2-DSC_4991.jpg)

And here they are.  All eight of them.  These are going to become the wheels for the tender:
(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/002a-TenderWheels-3-DSC_5000.jpg)

(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/002a-TenderWheels-4-DSC_5004.jpg)

Not a ton of progress, but it’s a first step.

I also cleaned my assembly table, as you can see in the pictures here.  Something to keep me busy while the saw was working away.  There’s still a little more ‘between project’ cleaning to be done, but it will happen over time.

Now, to make those pucks look like train wheels!
Kim

Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: crueby on October 28, 2018, 02:25:01 AM
Great start, going to be watching along! You are right, its a big project, but just a lot of manageable small parts.


 :popcorn: :popcorn: :popcorn:
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: 10KPete on October 28, 2018, 02:49:55 AM
Hot dang, first cuts.

Now I'm very curious: why 3.5" gauge?

 :ThumbsUp: :popcorn: :popcorn:

Pete
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Kim on October 28, 2018, 05:06:33 AM
Why 3.5" gauge?  Good question Pete!

Well, partly because that's what Kozo's plans are for. He does show modifications for a 7.5" gauge (1.5" scale) model.  But I opted for the 1:16 scale (3/4") model, which is big enough to be fun, but small enough to be nearly manageable.  It will be over 3' long, and weigh more than 60 pounds.  Luckily, that will be in two smaller pieces - the tender and the engine.  But still a sizable chunk.  And another reason is the cost of the materials.  I opted for less expensive materials than Kozo specified (i.e. I'm not using all brass) but even with that, I had to save up quite a while to afford my recent metal spending spree.  It would have been MUCH more if I opted for a larger scale.

Maybe I could have gone smaller, but then things would get too small to suit my tastes (or more specifically, my talent :)).

Guess we'll see how it all comes out!

I don't really have any plans to build a 3.5" track in my back yard or anything.  I doubt this locomotive will ever run much.  It's just a fun project for me to build.

Kim
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: 10KPete on October 28, 2018, 08:43:29 AM
Well, I asked because those same questions have been rattling around in my gourd for a few years now with precious few solid answers yet. I'm 70 and by the time I could finish a loco it could be too big to handle! Hmmmmm... :thinking:

Oh, and I really like your new avatar.

Thanks!

Pete
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: kvom on October 28, 2018, 10:12:00 AM
As a builder of the 7.5" gauge version I will follow your adventure with interest.  There are several websites that list some of the few errors in the plans, so I'd  familiarize yourself with those.

You might want to check out Friends Models for castings of the loco drivers and cylinders.
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: b.lindsey on October 28, 2018, 12:18:15 PM
Great to see you off on this new project Kim. Everything you learned on the traction engine will surely be of help here as well!!

Bill
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: 90LX_Notch on October 28, 2018, 02:44:27 PM
Oh yeah, I'll be following this one Kim.

-Bob
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Kim on October 28, 2018, 04:52:45 PM
Hey Chris, thanks!  Didn't mean to overlook you last night in my reply!

Pete,
Think you should dive right in and do one of these with me! I think that would be just too fun!

Thanks for following along, Bill and Bob!
Kim
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Kim on October 28, 2018, 04:58:24 PM
As a builder of the 7.5" gauge version I will follow your adventure with interest.  There are several websites that list some of the few errors in the plans, so I'd  familiarize yourself with those.

You might want to check out Friends Models for castings of the loco drivers and cylinders.

Hi kvom,
Where are these websites with the plan errors listed?
I've done some research and haven't run across that yet.  Sounds like it could be really helpful!

I have found the Friends Models site, and I've elected to fabricate the cylinders and the drivers.  Partly for cost reasons, and partly because I want the chalenge.

Thanks for the pointers,
Kim
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: fumopuc on October 28, 2018, 05:14:02 PM
Hi Kim, good to see your start of a new projekt. I will following along.
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: kvom on October 28, 2018, 06:08:56 PM
I can't find the error site now myself either.   :shrug:

Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: 10KPete on October 28, 2018, 06:19:26 PM
Has anyone pulled all the errata together in to one document? As popular as this loco is I would think it might have been done??

Thanks,

Pete
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Kim on November 04, 2018, 12:57:23 AM
Moving forward on the wheels for the tender.

I mounted one of the blanks into my 3” Taig 4 jaw chuck (I have an adaptor for this chuck that I’ve made for other projects and it works quite well). I indicated it using the outside radius to get it fairly centered in the chuck. Then I faced off one side, nice and clean.
(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/002b-TenderWheels-01-DSC_5006.jpg)

Next step was to pan out a good chunk on the wheel.  This needed a 15o slope on each side of the scooped-out section.  To get this, I ground a tool with a 30o angle with a nice broad rounded tip.
(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/002b-TenderWheels-02-DSC_5013.jpg)

Then went about panning the first wheel. It seemed to be going quite well and was looking really good, except I noticed things sounded funny toward the outside of the section.  I soon discovered that the edge of the tool was interfering terribly with the outside radius of the cut-out section.
(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/002b-TenderWheels-03-DSC_5009.jpg)

And of course I had one of those “Duh…” moments.  All you experienced guys saw this coming from a mile away, I’m sure.  But I had to discover it on my own apparently. :Doh:

So, I modified the tool and created a lot more clearance on the left side of the tip.  I needed to get about 1/8” deep with the tool, so I cut the clearance that far back (plus some safety margin).
(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/002b-TenderWheels-04-DSC_5017.jpg)

With that modification, things worked MUCH better!  And I think I can still pull this one out and NOT have to scrap this wheel (at least, not for this bonehead move.  Maybe for the next one :)).

With the sloping edge of the tool, it was kind challenging to get the correct width of the carved-out area. In addition to the sloping tool, it was difficult to get a good datum on the very center of the wheel. So, I did a ‘good eyeball’ estimate and carved out most of the area, leaving a nice buffer on each side.  Once I got to the correct depth (1/8”) I snuck up on the inside and outside radius, measuring with the dial calipers till I got the correct inside (5/8”) and outside (1 3/4") diameters.
(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/002b-TenderWheels-05-DSC_5015.jpg)

With that completed, next was to make the 5/16” axle hole.  I started this with a center and then drilling a 1/4" hole all the way through.
(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/002b-TenderWheels-06-DSC_5020.jpg)

Then, to ensure that the axle hole was perpendicular to the freshly machined side of the wheel, I bored the hole out to just under 5/16” ( went to about 0.304”, leaving about 8 thousandths for the reamer).
(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/002b-TenderWheels-07-DSC_5021.jpg)

Having ensured the hole was perpendicular, I then reamed it out with a 5/16” reamer:
(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/002b-TenderWheels-08-DSC_5024.jpg)

Having completed all operations on the first side, I flipped the wheel around in the 4 jaw and then centered it using the freshly cut axle hole.
(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/002b-TenderWheels-09-DSC_5028.jpg)

Next op was to face off this side and cut it down to the correct width for the wheel (7/16”). 
(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/002b-TenderWheels-10-DSC_5031.jpg)

And repeat the panning operation on this side (as described above).
(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/002b-TenderWheels-11-DSC_5032.jpg)

And that is the first series of operation for each wheel blank.  After I get all 8 wheels to this stage, then I’ll work on turning the flange and the tread.

I got two wheels turned up to this point.  I think I’m getting faster.  First one took 4-5 hours because I had to grind the panning tool (and then re-grind it to fix the relief problem) and figure out how to do all the steps.  But the second one only took 90 min or so (I didn’t actually time it, but it was much faster).  I’m thinking they’ll get even faster, but it will still take some time.  I’ve got 6 more of them to go!

Anyway, here’s my progress so far, showing the two completed up to this point and one of the ‘blanks’ just for fun.
(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/002b-TenderWheels-12-DSC_5037.jpg)

Thanks for taking a look!
Kim
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: crueby on November 04, 2018, 01:01:43 AM
Very well done!


 :popcorn: :popcorn: :popcorn:
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: b.lindsey on November 04, 2018, 01:02:34 AM
Hey, that is some good progress Kim. The time should come down a lot on the successive wheels.

Bill
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: 10KPete on November 04, 2018, 01:17:44 AM
Sweet!

 :popcorn: :ThumbsUp: :popcorn:

Pete
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Kim on November 04, 2018, 01:38:55 AM
Thanks Chris, Bill, and Pete!

I've never done 8 repetitions of something before.  The most I've done is 5 - for Rudy's Radial Five.  Luckily, things will go down to fewer repetitions after the tender wheels & trucks!

Kim
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Tin Falcon on November 04, 2018, 02:15:18 AM
kim  and all  I came across this pbs (Parts breakdown system ) published by martin of the MMX project. it is a free download an engineering tool to manage complex projects. Try it or not but looks interesting could com in handy.


 https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1eKW_-ygHTu2z4inSSGPFnjAoIolORW19d-Xu-uhDw9E/edit#gid=0 (https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1eKW_-ygHTu2z4inSSGPFnjAoIolORW19d-Xu-uhDw9E/edit#gid=0)
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Kim on November 04, 2018, 05:05:37 AM
That does look interesting!  That looks somewhat similar to a project numbering system that was used by a company I used to work at.  Each project was given a 4 digit project number, then there was a prefix that indicated what documentation this was for the project, and a post fix for revision control.  The prefix was something like - 100 series was drawings, 200 series was specs, 300 was something else (I can't remember them all) and 900's were for the BOMs.  It was very hierarchical too.

That spreadsheet looks pretty interesting.  Thanks for sharing!
Kim
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Tin Falcon on November 04, 2018, 12:17:50 PM
You are welcome Like I mentioned this is an offshoot of the Marble machine x project.  Wintergaten you tube Chanel. This aspect of the project is described in episode 57 of the build. The guy has been IIrc about a year /year and a half on this project and hopes to have it pretty much wrapped up by Christmas.  Not only is he building this machine but he is designing / redesigning most of the parts as he goes. 
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Kim on November 04, 2018, 02:57:25 PM
Wow! I had to go google that.  Pretty impressive! :)
Kim
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Kim on November 11, 2018, 02:58:56 PM
This is a short update representing a lot of work.  I completed the first phase on all eight tender wheels:
(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/002c-TenderWheels-1-DSC_5040.jpg)

Next will be to add the flange & tread to the wheels!

Thanks for taking a look,
Kim
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: zeeprogrammer on November 11, 2018, 03:28:27 PM
You started this while I was on my road trip. I've been looking forward to catching up.

What fun!  :ThumbsUp:
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: crueby on November 11, 2018, 03:37:22 PM
Great start, looking forward to seeing the build!
 :popcorn: :popcorn: :popcorn:
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Dave Otto on November 11, 2018, 04:03:09 PM
The wheels look very nice Kim!

Dave
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Kim on November 11, 2018, 06:11:01 PM
Thanks Zee, and Chris!

I've been looking forward to it for a longtime too! :)
Kim
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: kvom on November 12, 2018, 12:02:47 AM
Now we need to see the other side of the wheels.   :mischief:
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: crueby on November 12, 2018, 12:34:19 AM
Now we need to see the other side of the wheels.   :mischief:
And the bin of spares...


 :cheers:
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Kim on November 12, 2018, 05:06:56 AM
Now we need to see the other side of the wheels.   :mischief:
Kvom, that picture shows both sides - half of them are right-side-up, and the other half are upside-down.  :Jester:

And the bin of spares...
 :cheers:
Yeah, didn't show the recycle bin (yet). There's only ONE puck in the reuse bin - so far. I mis-read my dial caliper (thought it said 0.775" and it really said 0.675, and I cut the hub way too small). I figured I'd get through the next series of steps on the wheels then show my rejects.  Not that I think there will be any more.  No, of course not.  But I don't want to Jinx it!  ;)

Kim
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Ye-Ole Steam Dude on November 12, 2018, 09:50:04 AM
Hello Kim,

Looking real good and you are making good progress so far. I enjoy seeing parts beginning to stack up, large piles of completed parts is a good thing.

Have a great day,
Thomas
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Kim on November 18, 2018, 03:13:13 PM
Thanks Thomas! :)

This week I made some more progress on the tender wheels.

First, I made a 5/16” mandrel to hold the wheels.  A fairly simple turning operation.  Here I just finished single-pointing the 5/16”-24 threads:
(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/002d-TenderWheels-1-DSC_5042.jpg)

With that complete, I mounted one of the wheels in the mandrel and turned it to the final outside dimension of 2 1/4". 
(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/002d-TenderWheels-2-DSC_5048.jpg)

Then I cut the general shape of the tread, but no tapering (yet).
(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/002d-TenderWheels-3-DSC_5049.jpg)

Then, I did it seven more times!
(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/002d-TenderWheels-4-DSC_5054.jpg)

The next step will be to taper the tread and the flange, which should finish up the tender wheels.

Thanks for stopping by!
Kim

Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: cnr6400 on November 18, 2018, 04:25:59 PM
They look great Kim, nicely done.
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: zeeprogrammer on November 18, 2018, 04:31:46 PM
Yes, they look great.

Why didn't you do the tapering after turning the general shape?
Any concerns about keeping it concentric?
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: kvom on November 18, 2018, 05:29:26 PM
You might consider buying/making a form tool for the flanges, and you'll have 4 more to do for the loco.  Note that the flat part of the tread needs to be at a slight angle. 

http://ibls.org/files/Standards/IBLS%20Wheel%20Standard%203534DG%20Gauge.pdf

If you do decide to machine them manually, I suggest doing the same cut on all wheels at one time for consistency.
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Kim on November 18, 2018, 06:24:54 PM
Thanks Cnr, Zee, and Kvom,
Zee, the reason I didn't do tapersthis time through is that I'm going to have to reposition the compound slide a few times for the tapers.  And as Kvom hesaid, I want all the tapers to be consistent. So I'll set the taper once then do all eight wheels. If I did it now, I'd have to reposition the tool lots of times, and likely not get the same taper!

Kim
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: gerritv on November 18, 2018, 06:59:24 PM
Lovely work. Always fun plotting repetitive parts sequence of ops.

Gerrit
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Kim on November 23, 2018, 10:39:37 PM
Thanks Gerrit!

The next step on the Tender Wheels was to angle the tread and the flange.

Kozo recommend that you blue (or somehow color) in the tread and flange so that its easier to see when you cut close to the corner.  So, that’s what I did. After which, I set the compound at a 10o angle and cut the tread on the first wheel.
(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/002e-TenderWheels-1-DSC_5056.jpg)

Did this seven more times.
Then I readjusted the compound to be 10o for the front side of the flange, and cut all eight of those:
(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/002e-TenderWheels-2-DSC_5061.jpg)

Next, was another compound adjustment to cut the 10o angle on the back side of the flange.
(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/002e-TenderWheels-3-DSC_5066.jpg)

And finally, I used a file to round over the top of the flange a bit, and to take the edge off the front of the tread.
(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/002e-TenderWheels-4-DSC_5071.jpg)

Here’s a shot of all eight completed tender wheels:
(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/002e-TenderWheels-5-DSC_5077.jpg)

Before I'm all done with the tender wheels I need to clean them up a little more and paint them red!  I’m going to do some of the painting as I go this time.  Can’t leave all the fun for the end, right?   :Jester:  (I don’t really like painting, just in case you didn’t know that.)

Thanks,
Kim
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Dave Otto on November 23, 2018, 10:45:47 PM
The wheels look very nice Kim, but I'm curious about the 10 degree taper, was that a typo; I see 3 degrees on the print underneath the wheels?


Dave
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: b.lindsey on November 23, 2018, 10:55:11 PM
Same question. I don't have the A3 book but both the Shay and climax also show a 3 degree tread angle as does kvom's reference.

Bill
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Kim on November 23, 2018, 11:07:19 PM
 :facepalm:    :facepalm:     :facepalm:     :facepalm:    :facepalm:     :facepalm:
Nope, not a type-o. Wish it was.  I cut them at 10o, though it clearly says 3o.
 :hammerbash:

That kinda blows my last few weeks of work.  And an expensive chunk of 12L14....
  :wallbang:

Well, now the question - do I do-em again?  Or decide that my slightly over-tapered tread on these wheels won't matter a smidge, since this will never be used on a track in any serious way. It's more of a mantle piece for me.

Hmm... how noticeable do you think that will be in a finished model?  Will people be shocked and appalled at the cones I'm using for wheels?  Or will it not even be noticed.  :slap:

 :Doh:

Guess I'll think about that for a bit and do something else for a while...

Kim  :facepalm2:
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: crueby on November 23, 2018, 11:16:25 PM
Ouch! I hate when very carefully, precisely, doing the wrong thing.   :zap:




One other option, recutting the bevel to 3 degrees, and trimming the flange. How much would it reduce the OD of the wheels? Too much?
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: kvom on November 23, 2018, 11:16:53 PM
The taper is just to keep the wheels on the track going around a curve, and when on a straight track it won't be noticeable.  I wouldn't scrap them.  You can recut them at 3 degrees and then adjust the flange.  Wheels will be a bit smaller but again not a big deal.
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: b.lindsey on November 23, 2018, 11:22:10 PM
Or you could cut the treads square again, heat shrink a tire on each and cut the proper angle. It probably won't matter for display purposes but I would sure be wanting to run it after investing all that building time.

Bill
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: 10KPete on November 23, 2018, 11:27:10 PM
I agree that the angle won't really matter. Nor does the exact size. And the fix is not hard if you do as Bill suggests. I don't know how many times something like this has set me on my heels until I've had time to fully appreciate the impact....

Ouch!

Pete
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Dave Otto on November 23, 2018, 11:29:41 PM
Sorry Kim that's a bummer. :(
If it were me I would either repair them or remake them, I really doubt that I would leave them as is. As Chris indicated maybe you could just re-cut the wheel and reduce the diameter accordianlly. How much would this be on the radius? Maybe not enough to matter.

Dave
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: zeeprogrammer on November 23, 2018, 11:47:14 PM
That's a bummer and I'm betting you're still kicking yourself over it.
Set it aside. They can wait. Do some other things (i.e. parts) for a while.
The answer may/will come later.

Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Kim on November 24, 2018, 12:17:46 AM
Thank you all for the commiserations and the suggestions.  I do appreciate it.

Yeah.  I'm feelin' kinda irritated with the whole thing at the moment.  I'll probably just go away and try not to think about it for a while.  If history is any guide, I'll probably feel less down about it tomorrow.  But right now, its pretty much taken the wind out of my sails...

 :'(
Kim
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: zeeprogrammer on November 24, 2018, 12:23:49 AM
Yeah.  I'm feelin' kinda irritated with the whole thing at the moment.

Nah. Just the wheels. Don't forget about all the good feelings you had with other parts.

I'll probably just go away and try not to think about it for a while.

Hard to do, but yeah.  ;D

I've stopped projects for less. Don't do that.

I should listen to myself sometimes.
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: kvom on November 24, 2018, 12:38:15 AM
Assuming you cut the taper so that the flange diameter is intact, then the diameter of the face of the wheel is already a bit smaller.  But cutting the proper taper won't change that; only the flange diameter will end up being reduced.  Based on this and the drawings, I calculated that the wheels are smaller by .049" than per plan.
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: crueby on November 24, 2018, 12:41:50 AM
Assuming you cut the taper so that the flange diameter is intact, then the diameter of the face of the wheel is already a bit smaller.  But cutting the proper taper won't change that; only the flange diameter will end up being reduced.  Based on this and the drawings, I calculated that the wheels are smaller by .049" than per plan.
So it scales out to  wheels with a bit of wear that the maintenance shop refaced. Realistic!
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: b.lindsey on November 24, 2018, 12:52:53 AM
If that is correct then the tender would only sit .0245" lower. Negligible for display or running. Sounds like a plan to me.

Bill
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Dave Otto on November 24, 2018, 12:55:42 AM
I did the same thing and came up with .043" on the radius, but I was only working from the dimensions that I could see in Kim's photos.

Dave
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: kvom on November 24, 2018, 02:30:06 AM
I meant to say the radius. 

Measurements done using Draftsght.
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Kim on November 24, 2018, 03:10:51 AM
Yes, some time away doing other things was a good idea.  Helps put the world into perspective ;D

Yes, Dave and Kvom, guys have it right.  It would be about 0.043" short on the radius, or 0.086" smaller in diameter (not quite 3/32").  Since the inner diameter is SUPPOSED to be 2 1/16", that would be about 4% smaller.

Now much will that bother me?

I might play with one wheel tomorrow and see how it looks. But right now, I'm kinda thinking that the next several weeks of my shop time will be making 8 more wheels!  But it will go better this time!  And think of the cool paper weights I'll have to sit around my desk?   :-\

How would I learn to pay better attention to the plans if I didn't make stupid mistakes, right?
And it keeps me humble.
Kim
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: crueby on November 24, 2018, 03:19:56 AM
You could use the 8 practice wheels to make a set of ore cars to pull.


Or some windstorm safe poker chips!
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Florian Eberhard on November 24, 2018, 07:19:30 AM
Hi Bill

Why not machining the wheels down to square and fit new rims on each one? That should at least safe half the work!
You don.'t even need to heat shrink them - I would just use some loctite and glue those rims on the wheel.
That is in the end even more realistic bexcause thats how wheels were made - except the fitting method.

Florian
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Steve17 on November 24, 2018, 09:41:19 AM
I would try turning one to the correct angle and just see what it looks like. The only bit that would give the game away would be the thickness of the tyre.

Steve
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Kim on November 24, 2018, 05:31:22 PM
Why not machining the wheels down to square and fit new rims on each one? That should at least safe half the work!
You don.'t even need to heat shrink them - I would just use some loctite and glue those rims on the wheel.
That is in the end even more realistic bexcause thats how wheels were made - except the fitting method.

Florian

So, if I do as you and Bill suggested, and machine the wheel flat up to the flange, then put a ring on it, that sounds reasonable, but where do I get a 2 1/16" outside diameter (1 13/16" ID), 13/32" wide ring? If I make them out of the 12L14 round stock, I'll be using almost as much material and turning 90% of it into swarf.  Is that really easier than just starting over?  Maybe, or maybe not...

Kim

Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Dave Otto on November 24, 2018, 05:36:59 PM
You could use some DOM tubing but that may also cost as much as the solid 12L14.
https://www.speedymetals.com/pc-3504-8242-2-14-od-x-375-wall-dom-steel-tube.aspx

Dave
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: b.lindsey on November 24, 2018, 05:45:26 PM
Kim, if you can live with the reduced diameter of the wheels as others have calculated, that would seem the best option other than starting over. The wheels will look right at least.

Bill
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Kim on November 24, 2018, 05:49:33 PM
I would try turning one to the correct angle and just see what it looks like. The only bit that would give the game away would be the thickness of the tyre.

Steve

Yes, this is another strong contender.  If I do this, the whole wheel will be 0.084" smaller than its supposed to be and the tender will sit 0.042" lower than designed.  That's almost 3/64".  Maybe not a big deal, but I'm not sure I will be happy.

Ah... decisions, decisions...
Kim
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Kim on November 24, 2018, 05:59:34 PM
You could use some DOM tubing but that may also cost as much as the solid 12L14.
https://www.speedymetals.com/pc-3504-8242-2-14-od-x-375-wall-dom-steel-tube.aspx

Dave

Interesting idea, Dave.  But you're right.  Price wise, its pretty close. And that DOM tubing is no fun to machine.  Its very tough and stringy.

Kim
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Kim on November 24, 2018, 06:01:49 PM
Kim, if you can live with the reduced diameter of the wheels as others have calculated, that would seem the best option other than starting over. The wheels will look right at least.

Bill

Yeah, I'm not sure if I can live with it.  But I may give it a try on one wheel and see how it looks.   It would be the first step to turning it flat for a tire re-fit anyway.  And it wouldn't matter if I decided to remake them.

Kim


Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: b.lindsey on November 24, 2018, 06:20:45 PM
Every suggestion made has pros and cons of course. I hate it happened, but sure you will do what works for you and that's what matters really.

Bill
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Steve17 on November 24, 2018, 07:32:10 PM
Kim, I totally understand about the tender being low but that assumes the loco is at the top of its travel. Above all it's how you feel and looking at it on display.

Steve.
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Ye-Ole Steam Dude on November 24, 2018, 08:35:19 PM
Hello Kim,

Like Bill, I sure hate that this happened but ( my 2-cents worth ) you must do whatever makes you happy. As hard as you worked on the last project and look how beautiful it turned out....and only you know if every little part turned out perfect. "Perfect" whatever pleases you.

Have a great day,
Thomas
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Kim on November 24, 2018, 09:12:58 PM
Thanks for all the support guys!

Haven't had much shop time today.  Somehow, I thought this was Shop Day, but really, its do stuff around the house day (like fix the router, put up Christmas lights, and several other things like that).

But I did manage to slip out into the shop for a few min (like 15 - it really wasn't very long) to give this a try.

One of the suggestions has been just to re-cut the tread angle to 3 degrees and deal with slightly smaller wheels.  So, I did that to one of the wheels and here's the result (one on the left has been re-cut to 3o, the one on the right is the evil 10o angled tread).
(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/002f-TenderWheels-1-DSC_5081.jpg)

Not too bad.  It was fast for sure.
(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/002f-TenderWheels-2-DSC_5083.jpg)

The tread part of the wheel is about 60-70 thou smaller in diameter than it’s supposed to be which is a little better than I’d calculated (I calculated ~0.084”).  Probably means my angle settings aren’t super accurate, which is not hard to believe.
(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/002f-TenderWheels-3-DSC_5086.jpg)

And with the tread being ~1/16” small, the flange is ~1/16” larger than its supposed to be.  ~1/32” on either side.

If I were willing to deal with the slight delta on the wheel diameter, are the flanges OK as is?  Or would they need to be cut down to suit?

Now I’m beginning to lean this way.  Certainly a lot less work, I don't scrap the material, and it doesn't look bad to me at all (yet).  Plus, there’s nothing that says I can’t change my mind and re-do the tender wheels later if it proves to be too big of an issue at some point.

Thanks for all the thoughts on this.  I really do appreciate the thoughts and discussion!
Kim
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: b.lindsey on November 24, 2018, 09:20:29 PM
The extra flange diameter doesn't look bad , but you will have a small flat where the tread was cut down. Not an issue for display, those that run live steam will have to comment on that from a running perspective though. All in all, I think you are on the right track!!

Bill
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: crueby on November 24, 2018, 09:21:04 PM
Wow - big improvement in the appearance!

For the flange, it looks fine, but it would depend on what rails you would be running it on (if any) - if left too tall they could hit the track holding spikes/bolts/etc. If this is for display and static running, looks fine to me.
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Steve17 on November 24, 2018, 10:10:54 PM
Looks so much better and 15 minutes well spent. As you said you can always change your mind.

Steve.
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Dave Otto on November 24, 2018, 10:57:20 PM
That looks much better Kim.
It wouldn't take too long to skim the OD and re-cut the 10 degree tapers, then the proportions would be correct; but tucked up under the tender it probably won't matter either way.

Dave
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: kvom on November 24, 2018, 11:18:16 PM
I would try turning one to the correct angle and just see what it looks like. The only bit that would give the game away would be the thickness of the tyre.

Steve

Yes, this is another strong contender.  If I do this, the whole wheel will be 0.084" smaller than its supposed to be and the tender will sit 0.042" lower than designed.  That's almost 3/64".  Maybe not a big deal, but I'm not sure I will be happy.

Ah... decisions, decisions...
Kim

Just ignore it for now and finish the frame and trucks.  Then you can judge its appearance.
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Steamer5 on November 25, 2018, 02:30:47 AM
Hi Kim,
 Just catching up on progress. The wheels look fine, just like they have been in the shop for re- profiling in full size! A friend of mine purchased a loco of another club members estate & found all the wheels a different diameter.....UP Challanger & went down the turn all too the same size & tired the lot.
 If you decide to go down the tire route another option is to use heavy wall tube, say schedule 40 or maybe 80 or even more or get some laser or water cut plate.

Keep up the progress.

Cheers Kerrin
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Kim on November 25, 2018, 06:17:33 AM
Thank you everyone, really appreciate your thoughts on this!

Dave, you're right, I was thinking the same thing - it wouldn't take very long to bring the flanges down a tad and then it would look even better.  Besides, I'll have to clean up the flange tapers a bit anyway.   Have to get rid of that little flat spot on the flange that Bill was talking about :)

Thanks for all the encouragement and suggestions!
Kim
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: 10KPete on November 25, 2018, 06:19:11 AM
 :ThumbsUp: :ThumbsUp: :popcorn: :popcorn:

 :cheers:

Pete
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Kim on December 02, 2018, 03:25:58 PM
Thanks Pete!


Back to the shop to tackle the wheels.

I’d decided to bring the flanges down a tad to make them more proportional to the slightly smaller wheel.  The basic dimensions that I used for my ‘resized wheels’ was 2 3/16” for the outside of the flanges (vs. the 2 1/4" in the plans) and for the max tread height, I went with 1.90”  (where the plans say 2 1/16”).  If you bother with the math, you can see that this comes out to the 0.042” (radius) that I will be off due to re-cutting the tread at 3o (from the  10o I mistakenly, initially used).


Here is the flange being brought down to its new size, after cutting the tread slow down to 3o:
(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/002g-TenderWheels-1-DSC_5088.jpg)

After this, I re-tapered the flanges, both front and back.  Didn’t show pictures of that, since its identical to what I showed back in post #57 (http://www.modelenginemaker.com/index.php/topic,8552.msg188280.html#msg188280 (http://www.modelenginemaker.com/index.php/topic,8552.msg188280.html#msg188280)).  After filing the flange top round and polishing them up a bit, here are all 8 wheels in their final form:
(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/002g-TenderWheels-2-DSC_5091.jpg)

(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/002g-TenderWheels-3-DSC_5094.jpg)

It wasn’t all roses today. When was cutting down one of the flanges, I mis read the DRO and just cut WAY past my stop point making the flange noticeably short.  So, I cut one more blank and started from the beginning on another wheel. It probably took me a little over an hour, but I got it back to the same point as the others quickly enough. My only issue here was “Now that I’m making a fresh one, should I leave it as specified in the plans? Or should I ‘make’ it smaller to match all the others?”  In the end, I decided that I’d just make it match the other seven.  If I decide I need that extra 1/16”, I’ll just have to make 8 more wheels. But it was kind-of hard to make it ‘wrong’ intentionally!

And in the spirit of showing off my foibles, here’s a shot of my wheel reject bits:
(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/002g-TenderWheels-4-DSC_5098.jpg)

The one on the right was just today with the over aggressively shortened flange.  The one on the left was several weeks back.  I mis-read the dial caliper.  It showed 0.675” for the size of the center hub, but I read it as 0.775”. You know how you can see the ‘7’ when you’re in the high-range of the 0.600’s? Well, that bit me and this was the result.

With that, I think I’m ready to start a new part!  And next up will be the axels for the tender.  Luckily, only four of those :)

Thanks for all your support!
Kim
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: crueby on December 02, 2018, 03:31:29 PM
Bottom line - nice stack of wheels!!
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: b.lindsey on December 02, 2018, 03:59:44 PM
Those should work just fine Kim. I like that the flanges are proportional again. Nice recovery  :ThumbsUp:

Bill
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Steve17 on December 02, 2018, 04:15:43 PM
Looking good :praise2: when I was an apprentice I was told the difference an amateur and a professional was how well they can get out of a situation. Well executed recovery.

Steve.
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Kim on December 02, 2018, 05:49:58 PM
Thanks Chris, Bill, and Steve,

... when I was an apprentice I was told the difference an amateur and a professional was how well they can get out of a situation. Well executed recovery.
Well, then I guess I can emulate a professional as long as I have a large team of helpful coaches giving me tips and suggestions!  :ROFL:
Kim
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: cnr6400 on December 04, 2018, 04:34:33 AM
Great looking wheels Kim. A very good start to your locomotive's tender!  Also a couple of skill - building 'recoveries' under your belt for drive wheels and wheels of other locomotives.....can't get that out of any book or Yoot Ube video.
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Kim on December 04, 2018, 05:14:07 AM
Thanks CNR,
Yeah, the drivers... I'm excited/scared to get to those :)  I'm planning on fabricating them if I can.  Should be doable, but if I run into too much trouble, all it takes is some $$ and I can buy a set from Friends.  But I'm excited to give it a try (eventually - that's probably a couple years out yet, at my rate!)

Kim
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: b.lindsey on December 04, 2018, 01:59:56 PM
Now that the tender wheels are sorted out, what are you planning to tackle next Kim?

Bill
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Kim on December 05, 2018, 05:09:29 AM
Next will be the axles, then I'll be moving on to the truck assemblies, starting with the Journal Boxes. :)
Kim
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Kim on December 15, 2018, 10:45:47 PM
Chapter 2.2, Tender Axles start about halfway down this post.

It’s been a while since my last update, but I have made some progress.  A few weeks ago, I started painting the tender wheels.  I did a couple of coats of primer, then painted them red.  It’s been pretty cold out in my shop lately, so it takes a while for the paint to dry! 
(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/1-DSC_5107.JPG)

Today, I took the tape off.  And they seem to have turned out pretty well.
(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/2-DSC_5110.JPG)

One of the things Kozo shows, is gluing sandpaper to a piece of plywood, then holding that flat against the wheels with the tail stock to clean up the ends of the wheels.
Worked a treat!
(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/3-DSC_5114.JPG)

And it made some cool patterns on the sandpaper too! :)
(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/4-DSC_5116.JPG)

After doing all the ‘front’ side of the wheels, I flipped them around and sanded up the backside in the same way.
(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/5-DSC_5121.JPG)

And here’s all eight of them, half upside down, and half right side up.
(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/6-DSC_5123.JPG)

Chapter 2.2 Tender Axles

Next, I cut four chunks of 3/8” 12L14 and faced it off to exactly 4.750”.  Then using the collet chuck, I made a few steps in each end like this. The bigger step (5/16”) is for the wheel, and the smaller step (1/4”) will go in the bearing in the Journal Box.
(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/7-DSC_5104.JPG)

All four of the axels completed.
(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/8-DSC_5112.JPG)

And here’s the current family shot.
(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/9-DSC_5125.JPG)

Not much of a locomotive yet, but I’ll get there. One step at a time.  And this, my friends, officially completes my first step in Kozo’s book!  Only 34 or so to go!  (and this was an absurdly easy one! ::) )

Thanks for stopping by!
Kim
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: crueby on December 15, 2018, 10:50:12 PM
That really changed the look.


 :popcorn: :ThumbsUp:
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Ye-Ole Steam Dude on December 15, 2018, 10:50:33 PM
Hello Kim,

Boy those sure look good, the sandpaper trick is a neat way to finish them.

Have a great day,
Thomas
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: b.lindsey on December 15, 2018, 10:52:55 PM
Those look great to me Kim. Love the sandpaper trick as well. So are the frames chapter 2?

Bill
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Kim on December 15, 2018, 11:06:42 PM
Thanks Chris, Thomas, and Bill!
I'm pretty pleased with how the wheels look.  The paint really does pep it up some, doesn't it?  Those nice crisp lines...  :Love:

Bill, the next step is making the trucks.  Lots of parts and work there. I won't get to the frame till after the trucks are completed.  Interestingly, the first step (the tender wheels) is chapter 2.  Chapter 1 is the intro and general assembly drawings.

I'm thinking maybe I should start labeling my updates with chapters, so if anyone wants to reference in the future, they can match it to Kozo's book more easily. I think I may do that.

I've also thought about adding an index at the beginning of the build.  I'll just update it with links to where the different parts are.  It might be helpful to someone, but it would also fit my mildly obsessive personality.  It would be fun to have the index for the whole thing in one place :)

Kim

Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: b.lindsey on December 15, 2018, 11:27:08 PM
Thanks Kim. I mis-spoke. What I had meant was the tender truck frames....my bad. An index may be a good idea, not sure anyone has tried that. Guess I will have to buy the book to follow along. Can't tell the players without a program right??  :Lol:

Bill
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: kvom on December 16, 2018, 02:28:56 AM
At least there are only 4 trucks.  I didn't build a tender, so no hands-on experience here, but the machining looks straightforward.  Bending the arch bars may be the trickiest part.  I would probably look for off the shelf springs.
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Kim on December 16, 2018, 05:56:55 AM
Thanks Kim. I mis-spoke. What I had meant was the tender truck frames....my bad. An index may be a good idea, not sure anyone has tried that. Guess I will have to buy the book to follow along. Can't tell the players without a program right??  :Lol:

Bill
Clearly, everyone needs the hymnal so they can follow along  :ROFL:
But really, this is a great book, so I'd recommend it whether you care about my build or not!  Just a great reference for tips and techniques (at least for a less experienced machinist like me!)

And sorry for misunderstanding you.  But it worked for the good.  It will help me make things more clear going forward  :)

Thanks Kvom,
I'm going to give winding my own springs a shot!  Kozo give such clear information, I think I can do it.   Yet another fun thing to learn!

Kim
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Flyboy Jim on December 16, 2018, 02:30:41 PM
Those wheels look great Kim. Well done.

I thought of something while looking at them. I know how much 12L14 wants to rust. Well, I just bought a couple of new planes for the woodworking side of my shop. The manufacturer recommends wiping them down with Camelia Oil to ward off rust. Here's the Amazon link to my source for Camelia Oil: https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00362HBPQ/ref=oh_aui_detailpage_o01_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1 I'm going to try it on the 12L14 fly wheel on my first wobbler build.

Jim
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Dave Otto on December 16, 2018, 05:15:15 PM
Beautiful job on the wheels Kim!
I can see when building a Loco that finishing the parts as you go may be a better option than tearing the whole thing down for painting when it is finished. Is this what you are thinking for the rest of the parts and assemblies as you proceed?

Dave

Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Kim on December 16, 2018, 06:10:25 PM
Thanks Jim and Dave,

I had considered using a coat of clear matte finish on the unpainted steel to help keep it from oxidizing.  I was worried the oil would pick up dust and yuck.  But maybe the oil would still be a better soution.

Yes, I'm planning to finish parts as I go on this model.  I see other people doing this and thought it might be fun to give it a try.

Kim
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Kim on December 24, 2018, 03:21:46 AM
This week I got started on Chapter 3, the Tender Truck Frames.  And the first step in that is the Journal Boxes.  The Journal Boxes require a few jigs.  Kozo recommends a couple of jigs to for milling the angles, and another one for drilling some screw holes.

I don’t intend on making the screw hole locating jig, but I did build the angle setting jigs.  I figure using the DRO will be better accuracy than I could obtain with a jig.

Chapter 3.1 - Journal Boxes

First, I’ll tell you about the Jigs. I didn’t exactly do things in this order. For example, I did some of the journal box steps while the steel for the jigs was cooling. But it makes a much better narrative flow this way.

I used 1/2"x 3/4" 1018 bar (CRS) for these jigs and finished a couple of pieces to 3”.  Before I did any significant milling, I decided to do a little strain relief.  So I heated them up with my torch for a bit.  I know its better to use an oven and soak it for a long time, but I don’t have an oven. So, I use the torch.  It seems to mostly work :)  This is an exciting shot of the two hunks of metal cooling.
(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/004a-Journal_Box-1-DSC_5132.jpg)

Fist I did the 45o jig.  I set that one up using some angle blocks and clamped it in the vise and cut the ‘V’ in it. (Forgot to take a picture of that).  That one was relatively easy.  But the 3/10 angle jig was more challenging for me. A 3/10 angle works out to be 16.69o.  So, finally came up with this; I used a vice with a sine vice and set it to 16.69o and I clamped that in the mill vise. (try doing this in the Taig! :naughty:)  The workpiece being held long-ways like that wasn’t ideal, but I took small cuts and took things easy, and it worked out alright.
(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/004a-Journal_Box-2-DSC_5140.jpg)

Here’s a close-up of the 3/10 fixture, just after being milled.
(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/004a-Journal_Box-3-DSC_5142.jpg)

And here are the two angle jigs, ready for use!
(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/004a-Journal_Box-4-DSC_5147.jpg)

But wait!  I have those cool number stamps!  Why not put them to good use:
(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/004a-Journal_Box-5-DSC_5150.jpg)
Clearly I’m going to have to learn how to get those lined up better.  The numbers are going all which way.  Does anyone have any good hints on how to get the numbers aligned better and more evenly?

Here’s my blanks for the Journal Boxes.  These are cut from 5/8” square 12L14.  I only need 8 of these, but I made a spare just for fun!
(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/004a-Journal_Box-6-DSC_5129.jpg)

I cleaned up the 5/8” blanks to the correct length (13/16”).
(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/004a-Journal_Box-7-DSC_5135.jpg)

And here are all 8 (plus spare) cut to size and ready for the next operation.
(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/004a-Journal_Box-8-DSC_5143.jpg)

This is where I leave off for today, and possibly till after Christmas.

May you all be blessed with a wonderful and merry Christmas!

Kim
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: b.lindsey on December 24, 2018, 03:57:07 AM
Thanks for the update Kim. Christmas wishes to you and your family too.

Bill
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: cnr6400 on December 24, 2018, 04:01:29 PM
Hi Kim, re how to line up letter stamps - the old fashioned way was to make a 4 sided frame of square stock that is a sliding fit for 4-6 stamps side by side. A brass screw through one short side of the frame can be used to adjust for holding more than one stamp. If the frame and stamps can be clamped in place to the work or the vise holding it, alignment can be made very close to perfect. In theory you could hold more than 4-6 stamps, but because they are loose in the frame, they would be unwieldy to hold everything while using the hammer to make the impressions.

One thing to note though - check the dimensions on your stamps - on a set I bought a few years ago a couple were .008" to .010" bigger than the others, and one had a side at 95 degrees to its' neighbour! (it was a very cheap set, but still.....) A friend with a surface grinder sorted the big and unsquare ones quite quickly.

You may have noticed that the stamp impressions leave metal raised above the surface. This may not ever be an issue for you but the raised bits can interfere with making an accurate thickness stack of blocks or a height setup. If you mill a .010" deep slot on the blocks, then letter stamp in the slots, the impressions will be well below the surface. The die makers in the first shop I worked in used to do this so they could grind the blocks without grinding the ID letter and number stamps away when fitting the die blocks together. Again just an old trick of the trade.

If you plan to have your shop elves or gnomes make such a frame, be careful they start it before they get into the egg nog with Navy rum this time of year. Crueby on here has had some egg nog related shop elf issues this season...... :naughty:

Merry Christmas to everyone on the forum.

Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: crueby on December 24, 2018, 04:28:19 PM
Yeah, thier partys are fun but messy...
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: cnr6400 on December 24, 2018, 04:49:07 PM
Chris, you may need to consider a better lock on the spirit locker for next Christmas.......

Ish power;luf schtuf tha elf eg no^&g..... :insane:
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Kim on December 24, 2018, 06:07:41 PM
Thanks CNR, that's a very clever idea!  That would get them lined up and solve the vertical alignment and rotational issues.
Is there a standard way to get the letters spaced evenly?  Or do you just eyeball it?

Thank you!
Kim
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Ye-Ole Steam Dude on December 24, 2018, 06:52:57 PM
Hello Kim,

Your new "layout" by chapter is really neat and should be extremely helpful to all those who build a like unit.

Happy Holidays,
Thomas
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: cnr6400 on December 24, 2018, 07:52:36 PM
Thanks CNR, that's a very clever idea!  That would get them lined up and solve the vertical alignment and rotational issues.
Is there a standard way to get the letters spaced evenly?  Or do you just eyeball it?

Thank you!
Kim

Hi Kim, I can't take any credit for the idea - saw it done many years ago by the old-timer master mould and diemakers I worked with. Just passing it along. As to spacing, you can't get the letters closer together than the punch centre to centre distance (without altering the punches), but you can of course add spacers between punches. When using punches in a frame, one set of letters/numbers could be punched after the frame is located to a datum, say a mill vise stop, by a spacer made from scrap, or a gauge block stack. Then if you want a second set of letters / numbers punched a known distance away, do another spacer or gauge block stack the desired distance away from the datum, less the frame thicknesses. Five piece frames with 3 crossmembers can be made to punch two rows of letters/numbers, more crossmembers could in theory be added to the frame for more rows. Again though the more punches in the frame the more chances for one to jump out of position while using the hammer. Good luck and have fun letter punching!

I'm off to my workshop now to see how bad my own shop elves / tool hiders have broken up the joint - they picked up some bad egg nog habits from Crueby's elves I think..... :DrinkPint:
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Kim on December 24, 2018, 08:39:13 PM
Thanks Thomas!

And thanks for the reply, crn.  I'll have to think on the horizontal spacing a bit.  But getting things aligned vertically would be a big improvement for me! :)

Kim
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Steve17 on December 26, 2018, 05:27:15 PM
Hi Kim,
I think I will follow your lead and work in chapters also painting as you go. After three years on and off I just have a collection of bits and pieces for my 5" gauge Kozo climax's.
Steve.
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Kim on December 27, 2018, 07:37:08 AM
Sounds great Steve, can't wait to see where you are on you build!
Now I'll have to get the Climax book.  That and the New Shay are the two I'm missing from the set.

So, are you scaling Kozo's plans? I thought all Kozo's locomotives were 3.5" scale.

Kim
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Steve17 on December 27, 2018, 10:35:00 AM
Hi Kim,
It's a strange world I'm happy playing with CNC but I have a phone that's a lot smarter than me and I generally run a mile from computers. I'll have to work out how to load pictures and start another thread.
The only Kozo book I haven't got is the old Shay, but the one I would like is the K27 when it happens. That would make a good size loco in 5".
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Steve17 on December 27, 2018, 10:39:58 AM
Forgot to mention, yes I am scaling up to 5". Some of the components need a bit if refinement I think and you have to keep an eye on fixings and tube sizes but other than that it should work out.

Steve.
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Kim on December 27, 2018, 06:56:19 PM
Thanks Steve,
Well, I'd love to see what you're doing. If you wanna try, there are a bunch of us here willing to help you figure out how to post pictures to the forum.  It's not that difficult, I've figured it out after all  :Lol:
Kim
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Kim on December 28, 2018, 06:06:14 AM
As I mentioned in another thread, Santa was generous this year and stuffed a nice new vise down the chimney for me!  Here’s a picture of the bench all prepped, with mounting holes drilled:
(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/1-DSC_5172.JPG)

And here’s the finished product.  I’m pleased with the new vise.  Much more substantial than my old, rather rickety vise.
(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/2-DSC_5174.JPG)

OK, continuing on with the Journal Boxes.  This work was done in several segments out in the shop, but I’m combining it all into one update to get me up to real time.

This is going to be a multi-step operation. So, I marked each of the Journal Box blanks on one end so that every time I swapped that piece into the mill vise, it would be oriented the same way.  With that, I setup the stop and positioned the mill to spot and drill a 3/8” hole for the journal bearing.
(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/3-DSC_5154.JPG)

Then I setup the boring head to produce a 0.393” hole, and bored all the holes to that size.
(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/4-DSC_5157.JPG)

Here’s the shot to this point (that was one shop session).
(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/5-DSC_5160.JPG)

After getting the vise anchored to the bench today, I did some experiments to work out how to cut a 5/16” slot JUST right.  I used two passes of a 1/4" end mill.  Apparently, the 5/16” end mill doesn’t quite make a 5/16” slot.  And doing it in two passes of the 1/4" felt safer.  Anyway, after I got that worked out, it was just a matter of doing it 16 time; once on the top and once on the bottom of each Journal Box.
(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/6-DSC_5177.JPG)

Here’s all the Journal Boxes at the end of play time today.  I started with nine so that I had one spare.  Well, I burnt that spare today on the 5/16” slotting operation.  I missed one of them and dialed in the incorrect number. (The one I boogered up is on the far right).
(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/7-DSC_5183.JPG)

I'd considered leaving the mill setup for one pass and cycling through all 16 positions, resulting in 32 part moves. But instead, I chose to only have 16 part insertions/removals and position the mill using the DRO each time.  I thought that would be less errorprone.  Guess I was wrong. Ah well. At least I had a spare, right?

Still several more steps on the Journal Boxes, so I'll be tackling those tomorrow.

Thanks for stopping by!
Kim
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Roger B on December 28, 2018, 08:15:24 AM
Still following along and enjoying :ThumbsUp:  :ThumbsUp:  :wine1: A good start on chapter 3  :praise2:
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Steve17 on December 28, 2018, 10:20:17 AM
You are making really good progress with your axel boxes. It doesn't matter how many spares I make I'll always trash them.  :popcorn:

Steve.
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Kim on December 28, 2018, 06:12:48 PM
Thanks Roger and Steve,
Appreciate the commiseration :)
Kim
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Kim on December 29, 2018, 07:16:07 PM
Continuing on with the Journal Boxes:

Next step was to spot, drill and tap 32 holes.  The holes are the same on the top and bottom of the box.  Rather than move the mill head each side, I decided to do twice as many part insertions.  So, my order of operations was:
Here’s part way through the first step.
(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/004c-JournalBox-1-DSC_5185.jpg)

Next, was to drill 32 holes, 3/16” deep.  I did basically the same thing here – 32 drilling operations, one per insertion (1 each side of 16 sides (8 boxes), reposition mill and do it again).
(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/004c-JournalBox-2-DSC_5187.jpg)
This was the first time I've used the depth stop on the Z-axis.  It actually worked WAY better than I'd thought it would.  I'd had not expected to rely on the stop, but to just have it keep me from making really gross errors. But I was able to set it to the thousandth, and it stayed there, VERY consistent. That made this drilling operation, repetitive as it was, much less onerous!

Finally, was the tapping.  Same process.  I hand tapped, but used the mill to keep the tap straight.
(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/004c-JournalBox-3-DSC_5189.jpg)

All totaled, there were 96 part insertions to complete this step! And each one registered quite well.  I was quite pleased with that.

With all holes drilled and tapped, the final step was to put the fancy bevel cuts on the boxes.  That’s where those fancy angle jigs I made come in :)

I first did the 45o section.  This was 3/16” on each side, so I calculated that I needed to go down 0.132” from the tip. It came out just right! :) Did 8 of these.
(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/004c-JournalBox-4-DSC_5192.jpg)

And finally, the 3/10 angled section.  I calculated the depth to be 0.1796” for this.  And it also worked out just right.
(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/004c-JournalBox-5-DSC_5196.jpg)

Here’s the 8 Journal Boxes now complete:
(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/004c-JournalBox-6-DSC_5199.jpg)
They need a bit of clean-up to help get rid of the mill marks, but they look pretty good!
Kim
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Tennessee Whiskey on December 29, 2018, 07:25:49 PM
Looks like a great production run to me Kim. Seems like you are getting along with the new mill quite well. Do you have a DRO on it?

Cletus
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Kim on December 29, 2018, 08:02:31 PM
Thanks Cletus! :)
DRO?  Oh yes, definitely! That was part of Santa's treat LAST year about this time :)

Loving the Mill, and love the DRO.  The Vise on the mill is great too!  It's a 4" South Bend vise from Grizzly. Really nice quality, easy to use and it works so smooth and slick. I just love using it.  Made the hundred+ insertions easy to do.  And as I mentioned, they were repeatable and accurate!  What more can you ask for?

Thanks,
Kim
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Steve17 on December 29, 2018, 08:11:06 PM
Looking good, you sure are making progress. I never use flute less taps, are they any better as sometimes the threads tear with me if I use structural steel.

Steve.
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Dave Otto on December 29, 2018, 09:33:41 PM
Nice looking vise Kim, you are going to enjoy using it; can't go wrong with a Wilton, I have four of them! :lolb:
The A3 parts are also looking quite nice.

Dave
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: b.lindsey on December 30, 2018, 12:50:40 AM
Wow, impressive progress Kim. The boxes look great!!!

Bill
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: steamer on December 30, 2018, 01:56:14 AM
Coming together great Kim!

Dave
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Kim on December 30, 2018, 02:05:15 AM
Thanks Steve, Dave, Bill, and Dave!

Steve,
I do like the roll form taps. They don't have the flutes, so my theory is that they have a little more beef to them to help keep them from breaking.  Secondly, you don't make chips, so you don't have to worry about reversing to break the chips.  I've heard that the roll form taps can be difficult to use in steel, but I've not had any problem in 12L14, or even 1018 steel.  Maybe if I spent as much on the cutting taps as I do on the forming taps I'd have as good of luck with them too.  Most of the cutting taps I have are cheap imports.

Anyway, I like them :)

Thanks for the comments on the vise Dave.  I'm pleased with it, and hope to be more pleased as I start using it!

Bill, I can make a little more progress than normal since I've got a few days off here.  I've got family in town, but still getting some time to play! :embarassed:

Kim
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Kim on December 30, 2018, 05:06:49 AM

Chapter 3.2 - Journal Bearings

Today I started the Journal Bearings.  These were made from 1/2” C932 Bearing Bronze.  The 1/2" is a little big, but there was no 7/16” rod available. Besides, it would have probably been more expensive to purchase two rods when I can just  whittle down a little bit of 1/2".  Wouldn’t even save work since I’d have to cut the 7/16” down too, just not as much.

These bearings are a bit complicated.  Kozo makes them barrel shaped, not just a cylinder.  To do this, you have to cut a slight taper on both ends of the bearing, as you’ll see below.

First step was to drill and ream a 1/4" hole in the bearing for the axles.
(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/005a-JournalBearing-01-DSC_5200.jpg)

Then I cut a short length down to the specified 0.393”.  This will just fit inside the holes bored in the Journal Boxes.
(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/005a-JournalBearing-02-DSC_5202.jpg)

To make it easier to cut the barrel shape, I used a black sharpie to color the bronze rod.  That way I could see what I was shaving off more easily.
(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/005a-JournalBearing-03-DSC_5205.jpg)

I made little marks at 0.125”, 0.145”, the important points on the bearing. Then I used the compound, set at 3o to taper the outside of the bearing.
(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/005a-JournalBearing-04-DSC_5207.jpg)

And then adjusted the compound to 3o the other way and tapered that side.  It’s hard to see in the photo, but there’s a slight taper on each end.  The black band in the middle is about 0.020” wide and is kept flat.
(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/005a-JournalBearing-05-DSC_5209.jpg)

Finally, I cut off the bearing, a little oversized.  In a later step, I will face off that side to the correct width.
(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/005a-JournalBearing-06-DSC_5210.jpg)

Here’s a picture of two completed.  The marks on the end are to help me remember that this is the ‘cut off’ end that needs to be faced later.
(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/005a-JournalBearing-07-DSC_5213.jpg)

Here’s how it will all go together; the bearing on the axle:
(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/005a-JournalBearing-08-DSC_5215.jpg)

And the Bearing will slide in the Journal Box.  And here is what all that extra work making the barrel shape buys you: the axle can tilt a little bit relative to the bearing box.  This shot shows one direction:
(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/005a-JournalBearing-09-DSC_5216.jpg)

And this shot shows the other.
(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/005a-JournalBearing-10-DSC_5218.jpg)

Makes sense.  Seems like a pretty smart technique :)

Kim
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: 10KPete on December 30, 2018, 06:09:05 AM
Smart as paint and sharp as a tack! That's a really simple, good, way to take care of axle oscillations. No muss, no fuss, cheap and easy.

I need to take the book down and go through it again. I'll never build it but I'll read that porn...  :naughty:

Nice work, Kim. This adventure is off to a great start!!

Pete
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Steve17 on December 30, 2018, 09:19:05 AM
Looks very sharp Kim. I find it interesting that Kozo changes a lot of the smaller details as his trains evolve. On the Climax journal boxes there is no provision for the axel to tilt. Everything is size for size with square edges and true cylinders. I did do a small mod on mine and put an easy radius on the journal box slots. Fingers crossed and time will tell.

Steve.
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Kim on December 30, 2018, 05:51:49 PM
Thanks Pete and Steve,
Interesting to hear how Kozo's plans evolve over time.  Wonder what order his plans developed? I think the Pennsy is fairly new, but the New Shay is most recent.  I'd guess the original Shay book is oldest, but I don't really know. I'll have to look.  Should be able to tell by the copyright dates on the books.

Kim
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Admiral_dk on December 30, 2018, 07:51:38 PM
You're really moving with this one Kim - but then again, with the amount of parts needed for this loco - it will still take some time before you reach the end of this journey. Oh - and nice parts too  :ThumbsUp:

I will follow your progress along with the others  :cheers:  :popcorn:
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: crueby on December 30, 2018, 08:20:41 PM
Kozo's books:


Shay, 1982
Hiesler, 1986
Climax, 1988
A3, 2001
New Shay, 2007


He currently has a new one being serialized in Live Steam magazine, Building The Rio Grande K-27, which will be a book afterwards, currently on part 28, throttle.


His methods have evolved during the series, fantastic reference for all sorts of methods.


Chris
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Kim on December 30, 2018, 11:26:56 PM
Thanks Chris!  You saved me the trouble of looking them up  ;D

Hi Admiral,
Yes, this is going to be quite a journey for me!  But I'm excited about it and just keep plugging away.  I won't always get this kind of time to make progress, but since I've got some time, I'm going to make hay, as they say.  Or I guess, make A3 parts :)

Thanks,
Kim
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Tennessee Whiskey on December 31, 2018, 12:09:42 AM
It ain’t the destination, it’s the ride  8) ;)

Cletus
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: steamer on December 31, 2018, 01:18:58 AM
How do you like that diamond tool holder Kim?

Dave
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Kim on December 31, 2018, 05:43:01 AM
It ain’t the destination, it’s the ride  8) ;)

Thanks Eric, couldn't agree more! :)

How do you like that diamond tool holder Kim?
I love it!  It is very consistent.  It works well on almost any material, for both facing and turning.  It's easy to sharpen, is quite sturdy, and generally leaves a great finish.

It's my general purpose tool for almost everything now :)

YMMV of course.  For people with more experience, and know what they're doing, this tool may not be quite as magical as it is for me.  But I really like it!

Kim
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Steamer5 on December 31, 2018, 06:48:50 AM
Hi Kim,
 Coming along nicely!
I’ve got a couple of Kozo’s book’s & like you say they are a great resource, lots of hints & tips.

On the diamond tool holders, they are great! Had mine for a couple of years now & they are capable of some serious work if your lath has the power, or you are brave enuff! I got the parting tool as well, can recommend that as well!

Well there 4 hours of this year to go, so have a Happy, productive New Year!

Cheers Kerrin
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Steve17 on December 31, 2018, 09:36:43 AM
It ain’t the destination, it’s the ride  8) ;)

Cletus

How very true. Every now and then I make something at work on the CNC, yes it is quick but it has very little value to me as it is just typing numbers.

You are making good progress Kim and your pictures always paint a thousand words. It's nice to see how other people overcome problems in a home workshop and what emphasis you put on tooling.

I am really tempted to try the diamond tool holder but to be honest I have so much tool steel it seems a waste.

Steve
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: JC54 on December 31, 2018, 07:59:33 PM
Is the diamond toolholder the same as tangential toolholder? If it is I made one and find it one of the best things that I have made/bought for the workshop. It cuts superbly and as a learner it is so easy to sharpen and set tool height . I use ordinary HSS tool steel of which I have quite a stock. :old: :DrinkPint: JC
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Tennessee Whiskey on December 31, 2018, 08:02:51 PM
Yes it is JC. Steve, if you have any 1/4” HSS then alls you need is the holder.

Cletus
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Kim on December 31, 2018, 10:48:05 PM
Yup, Cletus answered it - the Diamond is a tangential holder.  It's just someone's product name. These are sold by Village Press.

I finished up the Journal Bearings today.
I used a 25/64” collet to hold the bearings to face off the other side.  Even thought they were barrel shaped, this worked quite well!

I used a 1/4" rod held in the tail stock to insert the bearings – that way they were mostly square with the world.
(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/005b-JournalBearing-1-DSC_5221.jpg)

Once in the collet, I faced them off to length, then used a 45o chamfering mill to chamfer the hole a bit:
(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/005b-JournalBearing-2-DSC_5220.jpg)

Here’s are all 8 of them:
(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/005b-JournalBearing-3-DSC_5223.jpg)

And that was it for the bearings.
Kim
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Kim on December 31, 2018, 10:50:01 PM
Chapter 3.3 - Columns
Next up, the columns.  These will support the axels and connect them to the bolsters.

One of the things I need for the columns is some 1/16” steel cut into strips.  I also need some of that for Arches, which will be coming up soon. So, since I was going to switch the horizontal band saw over to being vertical, I figured I’d prepare them all right now.

Here I’m cutting the 1/16” steel into strips on the band saw.
(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/006a-Columns-1-DSC_5226.jpg)

And here’s most of the strips cut.  I still have one more 0.090” strip to cut (you can see the last strip is marked on the sheet).  The ones on the right are 1/16” thick, the ones in the middle are 3/32”  (well, 0.090”, but that was as close as I could get to 3/32” in sheet).
(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/006a-Columns-2-DSC_5236.jpg)

That was it for today. It took an absurdly long time to cut those strips!  It's just slow going.

Thanks for following along.
Kim
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Steamer5 on January 01, 2019, 06:06:00 AM
Hi Kim,
 Looking good.
One of the reasons I built the new larger table for my bandsaw is the fence that goes with it. A little bit of setup time makes cutting strip like you have just done easy, no need to mark your stock.......it doesn’t make the cutting any faster!
Keep up the good work!

Cheers Kerrin
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Kim on January 01, 2019, 04:54:12 PM
Thanks Kerrin!

I could see a good fence being a real help here.  I did try clamping a piece of stock in place to act as a fence, but that caused me more trouble than it was worth, so I just took it off. Turns out that the table is not square with the blade.   After I took the fence off, I saw that when was actually cutting a straightish line the was
like 10o off from being perpendicular to the blade.  Now, that doesn't really matter, but it did make it so when I lined up the fence with the table, it didn't work too well  ::)

Kim
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Tennessee Whiskey on January 01, 2019, 07:48:51 PM
The vertical saw is one of the handiest, yet, the most tedious and boring machines in the shop. Maybe it’s just a mental thing, but, it seems I do better if I deeply scribe or score my cut line with a scribe. Seems like vertical saws need a good bit of blade tension also that doesn’t show up as much as on a horizontal. Good looking sawing Kim  :ThumbsUp: :ThumbsUp:. I bet your eyes and thumbs  are a bit tired too  :old:

Cletus
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: matthew-s on January 02, 2019, 01:59:10 AM
Nice work! I’m particularly jealous of your surface finish  :)

I’m working on one in 3/4 scale as well. I’ve been working a full year now and only a bit farther along!

I have the tender done from the frame rails down (less paint). I decided to flip over to the engine until I get to a step that requires the knowledge from building the tender tank or pump. If I run into that I’ll likely switch back to the tender.

Keep up the good work and perseverance through setbacks! I had to walk away from mine for a while, in part to cool off after making a few mistakes.
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Kim on January 02, 2019, 05:26:48 AM
Thanks Cletus and Matthew,

Yeah, the band saw was tedious. But I kept telling my self that it was better than cutting them by hand with a hacksaw!  :o

Matthew, that's great that you're doing an A3!  You should start a build and post some pictures of your progress.  I'd love to follow along with your work too!

Kim
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Kim on January 02, 2019, 05:29:51 AM
Had a little time in the shop today after dropping my daughter off at the airport (always sad to have your kids leave again after the holidays, but it sure is fun to have them home!)

Today was all material prep.  I needed to get those 3/32” and 1/16” steel strips I cut yesterday to a more uniform size.

To start with, I cut them to an approximate length that would be needed for the columns and the arch bars. Cutting them to size made them all much easier to hold on the mill.

Since the strips were longer than my 4” vise, I used some 1/2" parallels to provide better support along the whole length.  I used a combination of parallels to get them supported to the correct height above the top of the vise/parallel, then 1/2” carbide mill to cut them down to width. (5/16”).
(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/006b-Columns-1-DSC_5242.jpg)

Even doing them 4 at a time, it still took a while.  But I got them all done, and here they are, all the steel strips I’ll need to complete the tender trucks.  The 12 longer ones are the various arch bars for the trucks, and the short ones are for the columns.
(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/006b-Columns-2-DSC_5244.jpg)

Kim
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Kim on January 03, 2019, 11:10:21 PM
Continuing work on the columns, I cut 8 pieces of 5/16” square 12L14.  These will be the actual columns for the trucks.  Before milling them I heated them up nice and hot with the torch and let them cool down slowly – for stress relief.

The columns have a basic “T” shape.  The cuts to make the T are very shallow.  I made this cut in the mill as seen here.  Did this 8 times, once for each column.
(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/006c-Columns-01-DSC_5246.jpg)

Then I flipped them all over and did the other side.  This made the T symmetrical.
(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/006c-Columns-02-DSC_5247.jpg)

Then I finished the columns to the correct length:
(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/006c-Columns-03-DSC_5248.jpg)

I should have done this step first!  it was was only supposed to be 1/4" tall.  Doing this step first would have provided more surface area for the vise.  But in the end, it worked out just fine. I only had to remove a 1/16” anyway.
(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/006c-Columns-04-DSC_5258.jpg)

Then I dialed in the center hole for the post and drilled and tapped 1-72.  This threaded hole will be used to hold things together while silver soldering.
(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/006c-Columns-05-DSC_5261.jpg)

Here’s the tapping part:
(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/006c-Columns-06-DSC_5262.jpg)

On the long edge, I drilled a close fit 1-72 through hole.  Again, this will be used to hold things in place during soldering.
(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/006c-Columns-07-DSC_5265.jpg)

The last part of the column, is the top connecting bar. These are made from those little short pieces of steel sheet that I cut out the other day.  All I had to do here was drill a couple of holes, 7/8” apart.  Here’s that op:
(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/006c-Columns-11-DSC_5266.JPG)

Here’s the column family shot: the 4 cross pieces at the top, the 8 columns in the middle (two groups of four), and last but not least, the soldering jig at the bottom.  This is a precisely cut little jig to help hold things square during soldering.
(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/006c-Columns-08-DSC_5273.jpg)

I’m assembling the first one, using the soldering jig.  But before I put the top cross piece on, I made a few pops on the end of the columns.  I’ve seen Chris do this many times, and now, on Kozo’s instructions, I’m doing it too :)  The idea is that this will hold the other piece away JUST enough to allow the silver solder to wick through.
(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/006c-Columns-09-DSC_5276.jpg)

And the cross piece in place ready for the soldering operation:
(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/006c-Columns-10-DSC_5278.jpg)

Now all I need to do is actually silver solder it.  But that will wait for another day.  I’m done in the shop for now.  My feet hurt and I’m ready for lunch!  No matter how much fun it is, if I stay out in the shop too long, it quits being fun and starts feeling like work. And I don’t want it to be work.  I’ve still got a couple of days off before I have to go back to that!

Thanks for checking in,
Kim
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: b.lindsey on January 04, 2019, 12:43:43 AM
Very nice progress Kim. Looking forward to seeing these come together.

Bill
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Steve17 on January 04, 2019, 10:54:06 AM
You are curtainly making good progress. I know what you mean about quitting while you are ahead. This is enjoyment not a job.

Steve.
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Kim on January 05, 2019, 06:52:07 PM
Thanks Steve and Bill!
You'll see the first steps of that 'coming together' here :)


Yesterday I got the columns soldered together.  This was an important step in that it proves that I can successfully silver solder 12L14 and the 4130 sheet steel.  I fully expected it to work, based on my extensive research (asking you guys and Googling) but its nice to see it work regardless! :)

Here’s my soldering setup – all prepped and ready:
(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/006d-Columns-1-DSC_5281.jpg)

And after the job.  This happens to be a different “after” shot (i.e. it doesn’t correspond to the before shot above) but the idea is the same (I forgot to take a picture of the first one).
(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/006d-Columns-2-DSC_5283.jpg)

I found that it was best to do each side separately. If I prepped both sides, the flux was all dried out and worthless by the time I got the first end done.  So I just took to prepping one end at a time.  8 solder sessions vs. 4, but it was worth it to have it work!  :Lol:

After soldering and a bit of pickle and a wash, I milled off the heads of the sacrificial screws that helped hold things together for soldering.
(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/006d-Columns-3-DSC_5286.jpg)

Then milled off the overhanging part of the sheet that joins the two columns.  Did this on both sides. (Note, I didn’t mill of the head of THIS screw, since it wasn’t soldered and can be re-used.)
(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/006d-Columns-4-DSC_5288.jpg)

Then there was some serious filing work to clean up the top connecting plate.  Here three of the four columns have been filed to shape, with the bottom right still to go.
(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/006d-Columns-5-DSC_5290.jpg)

Today I’ll drill and tap the final holes in the columns then get going on the bolsters!

Thanks,
Kim
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: crueby on January 05, 2019, 07:29:21 PM
Great job. Getting comfortable with the silver soldering opens up all sorts of fabrication.


 :popcorn:
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Kim on January 06, 2019, 12:38:35 AM
Thanks Chris!

The Columns aren’t quite finished yet.  I still need to finish cleaning them up, and adding the screw holes.

I wanted to start with this shot:  My new vise :)
This is my first real use of my new vise and it is quite nice! I’ll have to say its much more stable than my old vise and is more than adequate for this job!
(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/006e-Columns-2-DSC_5295.jpg)

The unfortunate thing is that I wanted to make some Aluminum soft jaws for the vise.  I started taking off the stock steel jaws but I couldn’t get them off. They are held on with little Philips head screws and they I found them VERY hard to get out.  I was able to remove a couple of them, but I completely stripped out one of the screws.  Now I can’t get it off at all. I’ll have to drill it out or something.  But, that’s not a job for today.  Instead, I just used double-sided-sticky-tape to hold a couple of pieces of aluminum in place over the steel jaws.

Anyway, here’s one of the columns ready to be filed to shape.
(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/006e-Columns-1-DSC_5291.jpg)

Next, I drilled 4 holes in each of the column assemblies (this is the top of one column):
(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/006e-Columns-3-DSC_5306.jpg)

And then tapped them 3-48 (this is the bottom of the column).
(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/006e-Columns-4-DSC_5309.jpg)

And the final shot of all four completed columns:
(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/006e-Columns-5-DSC_5313.jpg)

And that’s it for those. Thanks for looking in.
Kim
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Kim on January 06, 2019, 12:43:00 AM
Chapter 3.4 – Bolsters and Side Bearings
Following the columns are the bolsters.  These consist of upper and lower bolsters.  There will be coil springs between the upper and lower bolsters and the wheels will connect to the lower bolster.  The columns that I just made will keep the upper and lower bolsters aligned.

I cut several 5 1/2" lengths of 1018 steel.  Two for the upper bolsters (5/8”x3/4”) and two for the lower bolsters (5/16” x3/4”).

Since the bolsters (the upper in particular) will have some significant milling, I wanted to stress relieve these before starting.  Again, I did this with my torch, heating them up to a nice dull red.  Then I closed my “oven door” and left them to cool slowly.  You can see my ‘oven’ all closed up here :)
(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/007a-Bolsters-1-DSC_5297.jpg)

Here’s after the door is open.  You can see the 4 chunks of steel that were cooling all night.
(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/007a-Bolsters-2-DSC_5303.jpg)

But many of the cuts on the bolster need to be done at 3o.  So, I need to make a jig to allow me to cut easily at 3o.  For this, I used a 6” piece of 1/2" square 1018 that I had in my ‘short pieces’ pile.

To cut a 3o angle, I setup my sine vise, like so:
(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/007a-Bolsters-3-DSC_5314.jpg)

Here’s after I shaved a little 3o wedge off.
(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/007a-Bolsters-4-DSC_5317.jpg)

With this done, I cut the bar in half, and the jig is done.  I will be able to support pieces clamped between these two parts in the vise, and it should produce a 3o angle.
(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/007a-Bolsters-6-DSC_5323.jpg)

(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/007a-Bolsters-5-DSC_5324.jpg)

That’s where I left off today.

Thanks for taking a look!
Kim
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: b.lindsey on January 06, 2019, 12:47:44 AM
Nice day in the shop Kim. Gonna hate to see you have to go back to work. Very much enjoying the build.

Bill
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Kim on January 06, 2019, 12:55:59 AM
Thanks Bill!
Yeah, me too!  But I'm going to have to start W**k next week. :/  I'm enjoying having a bit of shop time every day. Guess it gives me something to look forward to in my retirement  :D
Kim
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: crueby on January 06, 2019, 01:04:58 AM
Thanks Bill!
Yeah, me too!  But I'm going to have to start W**k next week. :/  I'm enjoying having a bit of shop time every day. Guess it gives me something to look forward to in my retirement  :D
Kim


Ick!!  Condolences on the W**k.
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: 10KPete on January 06, 2019, 01:12:08 AM
Kim, I really like your solution to the 3* problem! Very clever..

 :popcorn: :popcorn:

Pete
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Kim on January 06, 2019, 05:28:36 AM
Thanks Pete!
Unfortunately, the only credit I can take here is maybe how I made it.  This is the 3o fixture that Kozo shows in his book.  But I made it a different way than he shows, so I'll take credit for that.  (or for copying someone else and not realizing it, so not attributing it to them, which is highly likely  :embarassed:).

Appreciate you following along Pete! :)
Kim
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: 10KPete on January 06, 2019, 08:57:38 AM
 :ThumbsUp:

Pete
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Ye-Ole Steam Dude on January 06, 2019, 09:33:23 AM
Hello Kim,

Still following along and enjoying the build.

Have a great day,
Thomas
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Firebird on January 06, 2019, 09:52:19 AM
 :popcorn:

Cheers

Rich
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: kvom on January 06, 2019, 12:31:31 PM
For temporary soft jaws for your vise, just mill some aluminum in the form of "angle iron" that sits on top of the steel jaws.
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: joe d on January 06, 2019, 12:36:30 PM
Hi Kim

Following along, and enjoying it.  I've got the book, and even got around to drawing up a BOM a few years ago...
Maybe seeing you progress will get me off my behind...

Cheers, Joe
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Kim on January 06, 2019, 05:46:04 PM
Thanks for following along Rich and Thomas!

For temporary soft jaws for your vise, just mill some aluminum in the form of "angle iron" that sits on top of the steel jaws.
I'll probably do that) though this is working at the moment :)

I was hoping to be able to screw in some soft jaws. I've heard that if you clamp things only in the top part of the jaws, the ones held by magnets can flip up, if that makes sense.

Thanks,
Kim
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Kim on January 06, 2019, 05:52:01 PM
Hi Kim

Following along, and enjoying it.  I've got the book, and even got around to drawing up a BOM a few years ago...
Maybe seeing you progress will get me off my behind...

Cheers, Joe

Yes! you should definately start this project! While it does challenge me, Kozo breaks everything up into manageable steps. I've found it quite rewarding, so far!

It'd be grea to have a couple of A3 builds going at once :)

Kim
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Steve17 on January 06, 2019, 07:47:40 PM
You are making great progress Kim. The good thing about the Kozo trains is that you can make so many sub assemblies and get a feel good factor. There are so many hints and tips in the book even if you don't or can't follow them you can certainly get the general idea.

Over the years I have tried to make short cuts with holding jobs for a one off and fallen fowl. Now I just make soft jaws and fix them in. At work I purchased a length of ally and pre made a pile of them to fit the vices.

 :facepalm:owe yes the w word! Back in tomorrow  :toilet_claw:

Steve.
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Dave Otto on January 07, 2019, 12:49:11 AM
Hi Kim

Lots of nice work going on here, won't be too long and you will have some assemblies that you can push around on the bench. :Lol:
I had missed the post about the soft jaws, after seeing some comments I had to go back and look for it.
You should be able to drill the head off of the screw then after the jaw is removed there should be enough of the screw sticking out that you could grab it with some vise grips.
If you use a left hand drill bit, lots of time the screw will back out as you are drilling.

Don't know if you remember this thread or not. Might be good for some ideas. :)
http://www.modelenginemaker.com/index.php/topic,6105.msg121984.html#msg121984

I have been using some sheet aluminum covers on my 6" vise that are way beyond their useful life. An engine collector friend gave me some nice copper bars the other day so I can make a decent set of jaws for this vise too.

Everything is looking great!
Dave


Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Kim on January 07, 2019, 05:47:48 AM
Thanks Steve and Dave,

Yes, I do remember that thread, Dave! Are those jaws still just as pristine looking today?  :LittleDevil:
Yeah, that's probably what I'll do, is drill the heads off the screws.  Just a bit frustrating.  Why would they put the screws on so tightly for removable jaws?   Doesn't make sense to me.  Maybe they put Loctite on them, which even makes LESS sense.  But since I got 2 of them out, I doubt that's the case.

Anyway, I'll deal with it some day.  And I'll make some really pretty soft jaws like you have Dave!  :ThumbsUp:

Thanks!
Kim
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Kim on January 12, 2019, 11:56:46 PM
Last shop session, I’d left off having cut and stress-relieved the bolster blanks, and them made the 3o jig that will be used in fabricating the bolsters.

First, I took the bolster blanks and milled them all to length (which was 5 3/16”, just in case  you care).
(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/007b-Bolsters-1-DSC_5328.jpg)

The two upper bolsters need to be 19/32” thick, and the material I have is 5/8” thick , so I need to loose 1/32”.  My plan was to shave a bit off each side, to decrease the chance of the part going all banana on me. I started in using a 1/2" carbide 4-flute end mill.  This took too passes which produced the familiar line down the middle of the part.  Not a biggie.
(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/007b-Bolsters-2-DSC_5332.jpg)

But then I remembered that I had a cool new tool that I got when I purchased the Grizzly mill – a 2 1/2" face mill!  Figured I should give that a try! Wouldn’t want any of my tools to feel left out, would we?
It worked quite well!  And I could do the 3/4” wide piece in a single pass.  And gave a very nice finish too!
(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/007b-Bolsters-3-DSC_5334.jpg)

After shaving the upper bolsters to width, it was time to cut the grooves that the columns will slide into. These grooves will be at a 3o angle, which is where that cool jig comes in. Now, I didn’t show it very well in this picture, but the bolster is clamped between those two parts with the 3o faces.  It worked amazingly well!
I made 3 passes with a 1/4" HSS end mill to cut the 0.315” wide angled groove (one down the center, then one along each edge to get the proper width).  0.315" is just a few thou over 5/16”, which is the width of the columns (just in case you don’t remember – cause I never would if it wasn’t my build).
(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/007b-Bolsters-4-DSC_5337.jpg)

I had to cut 4 of these – two on each side of the upper bolsters.  The trick was remembering to make the 3o angle face the correct direction (narrower at the top).  Luckily, I was able to maintain my attention the whole time and did them all correctly.  You can see in the next picture that I’d labeled one side of the bolsters as ‘Top’ to help ensure the angle was sloping the correct way.
(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/007b-Bolsters-5-DSC_5340.jpg)

With the column slid in place, you can see how the angle will give the truck some wiggle room and allow it to move a bit as it goes over the track.
(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/007b-Bolsters-6-DSC_5342.jpg)
(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/007b-Bolsters-7-DSC_5343.jpg)

That’s where I ended the day.  I’ll need to cut similar groves in the lower bolsters, then drill some holes to retain the springs that provide the suspension for the trucks.

Thanks for checking in,
Kim
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: crueby on January 13, 2019, 12:19:57 AM
Very well done, watching along with great interest!


 :popcorn: :popcorn: :popcorn:
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Kim on January 13, 2019, 05:59:54 AM
Thanks Chris :)
Kim
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: 10KPete on January 13, 2019, 06:34:49 AM
That wiggle room is evident many places in his designs. It shows the complete nature of his understanding of how things work.

It's the first thing that grabbed me when I first saw his book. Then had to buy it. :whoohoo:

Pete
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Steve17 on January 13, 2019, 06:53:42 PM
Getting to the stage when you can start bolting thins together. It's amazing how w :censored: gets in the way and we are reduced to weekends.

Looking really good and can't wait  :popcorn: :popcorn:

Steve.
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Kim on January 14, 2019, 02:28:10 AM
Thanks Pete and Steve!
Kim
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Kim on January 14, 2019, 02:30:41 AM
Today I focused on the lower bolsters, cutting the slots in those.

First cuts were identical to the upper bolsters – ~5/16” wide slots sloped at 3o on each side.  This was tricky because the BOTTOM was narrower for the lower bolsters (opposite of the upper bolsters).  I got that all right!

Then, I needed to cut a similar 3o angled slot across the bottom of these parts – connecting the side slots.  First I did one side, like so:
(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/007c-Bolsters-1-DSC_5346.jpg)

Then flipped it around (and the angle jig too) and did the other side.
The peak of this one didn’t come out ‘exactly’ on center, which means one side raised up a bit when I tightened the vise. But I figure it can’t make THAT much difference to have this shallow peak off center by a fraction of an inch.
 (http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/007c-Bolsters-2-DSC_5350.jpg)

Here’s a better one:
(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/007c-Bolsters-3-DSC_5353.jpg)

And here they are all mock assembled with the upper bolster and the columns:
(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/007c-Bolsters-4-DSC_5354.jpg)

Unfortunately, as I was fitting them together, I realized that I’d cut the connecting slots of one of the lower bolsters on the TOP instead of the bottom.  But I didn’t really notice it till some time during the fitting.  And as it turns out, I can’t really tell a difference in the movement of the ‘right side up’ one and the ‘upside down’ one. Which makes sense, as there really isn’t much difference in height a 3o slope over 1/4".

Anyway, I’m currently planning on not worrying about that blunder.  I don’t think its going to make a noticeable difference in how the tender moves.  If I change my mind as I’m going along, I can always re-make that lower bolster.  But as I said, I don’t notice any appreciable movement difference between them when assembled.  Maybe it will look different when I get the springs in place?  We’ll see.

Just one moment of inattention caused this dilemma. I’m sure it was that I was hurrying to get this step done before I went in.  Hurrying is always a bad idea.

Kim
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Kim on January 20, 2019, 12:04:30 AM
Today I completed the bolsters.  Last session I'd just I’d screwed up one of the lower bolsters by milling the slots on the wrong side. My plan was to ignore it and go on.  However, that bothered me.  And even though it didn’t act ‘much’ different, I could still tell the difference in how the bolster moved inside the columns.  So, I decided to remake that part.  I’m sure, in the end it wouldn’t have made any real difference, especially for the amount of time I plan to actually run this on a track.  But it bothered me and so I remade the part.

Here’s the new part – the one on the bottom is new, the one on the top, with the X’s is the bad one.  It’s hard to see the difference in this shot, but it’s the direction of the 3o side slope in the grooves on the ends of bolsters.  The new one is brighter than the old ones because I didn't bother to stress relieve the new one.  I only did the original ones because I had to do it for the upper bolsters, so why not?  But I didn't think it was really required for the lower bolsters, and I believe I was right.
(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/007d-Bolsters-1-DSC_5362.jpg)

After remaking that part, I drilled the holes that will retain the suspension springs.  I set it up for one of the holes, then did ONE hole on each end of the upper and lower bolsers.
(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/007d-Bolsters-2-DSC_5359.jpg)

Then I moved the position of the mill and did the matching hole on each end of all bolsters.
(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/007d-Bolsters-3-DSC_5365.jpg)

The upper bolster had several holes that needed to be drilled.  The center hole for the pivot pin, and threaded holes where the side bearings will attach. Here’ after the holes are drilled and I’m tapping the side bearing holes:
(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/007d-Bolsters-4-DSC_5367.jpg)

And to finish off the update, here’s a picture showing one set of bolsters stacked on the columns (no suspension springs yet) and the other set spread out for display.
(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/007d-Bolsters-5-DSC_5369.jpg)

Thanks for taking a look,
Kim
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: b.lindsey on January 20, 2019, 12:42:32 AM
Things are looking good Kim. Great to see a new update on your progress.

Bill
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Dave Otto on January 20, 2019, 12:44:58 AM
Nice work Kim!

Dave
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Kim on January 20, 2019, 05:09:18 AM
Thanks for stopping by for a look Bill and Dave! :)
Kim
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: fumopuc on January 21, 2019, 08:32:28 PM
Hi Kim, again a lot of progress.
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Kim on January 21, 2019, 10:59:01 PM
Thanks Achim!
Slow and steady progress is about the best I can do!  :embarassed:
Kim
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Kim on January 21, 2019, 11:04:54 PM
Today, I made the side bearings.  These are little blocks that slide along the underside of the tender frame to keep the trucks from flopping around.  They will also limit the rotational movement of the trucks.

These are made from 1-3/16” lengths of 3/8”x3/4” 1018 bar.  I cut four pieces, then milled the ends to length.

Next was to cut the rotational limiting tabs on each end of the side bearings.  These are supposed to be 1/8” thick, and 1/8” tall. I started by taking a swath out of the middle of the bearing.  I used this operation to set the depth of cut.
(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/008a-SideBearings-1-DSC_5374.jpg)

With the depth set, I just needed to finish off each end.  So I set the x axis so that it left 1/8” tab on the far end, like so:
(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/008a-SideBearings-2-DSC_5375.jpg)

Then I flipped the piece around and, using exactly the same settings, did the other side.
(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/008a-SideBearings-3-DSC_5378.jpg)

Next we need to make mounting holes.  I used a #37 drill for a close fitting 3-48 clearance hole.
(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/008a-SideBearings-4-DSC_5379.jpg)

And finally, I made a 3/8” counter sink with a #3 drill.  For both of these operations, I did one side, then flipped the part around to do the other side.
(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/008a-SideBearings-5-DSC_5381.jpg)

And here’s all four side bearings complete:
(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/008a-SideBearings-6-DSC_5384.jpg)

And now a family shot of all the truck parts I’ve made so far.  Going clockwise starting in the upper right hand corner we have the journal boxes, then the axle bearings, the lower bolsters, the upper bolsters, the columns, and the side bearings (in the center top).
(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/008a-SideBearings-7-DSC_5389.jpg)

And that, my friends, is all I could do today.  Doesn’t seem like so much, but it sure takes me a while to do it!

I’m getting pretty excited – all I have left for the trucks are the Arch Bars and the suspension springs!  And then, of course I have to paint them.  But it’s getting close!
Kim
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Dave Otto on January 21, 2019, 11:38:53 PM
Nice family shot Kim.
Everything looks great!

Dave
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Kim on January 26, 2019, 11:57:04 PM
Thanks Dave!  Didn't mean to ignore you there, guess I just forgot to reply!


Chapter 3.5 – Tie Bars and Arch Bars
Next up are the Tie Bars and the Arch Bars.  There are 3 different types of bars: the Tie Bars (7), the Lower Arch Bars (8 ), and the Upper Arch Bars (9). I thought I'd include this picture here since I know I couldn’t begin to imagine how it all came together without a picture:
(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/009a-TieAndArchBars-0-Capture.JPG)

Since there are 2 trucks, and each truck has two sets of wheels (one set on each side), we need to make 4 copies of each bar.  This will make for a total of 12 bars.

I made the bar blanks several weeks ago, back when I started the columns, since they needed some of the sheet stock cut to the same size.  You can look back in Reply 157  (http://www.modelenginemaker.com/index.php/topic,8552.msg191121.html#msg191121)  if you want to see that.

Before attacking the bars, I need to make the bar bending and drilling jig.  Now, this Jig doesn’t exactly help you to bend the parts, but it does help to make sure you bend them to the correct angles. To make the bending jig, I started with a 4 5/8” length of the same metal bar that will be  used for the Arch bars (3/32” thick).  I drilled 6 holes in it.  The two in the middle are for the columns, the 4 on the outside ends are for the journal boxes.
(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/009a-TieAndArchBars-1-DSC_5392.jpg)

Then I shaped, drilled and tapped the upright pieces.  There are two of these.  One for the Tie bar and the upper arch bar.  They have a 5/16” rise.  The other one is for the lower arch bar, which has a 1” rise.
(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/009a-TieAndArchBars-2-DSC_5394.jpg)

Here are the completed jig pieces, with it assembled for use on the 5/16” rise bars.
(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/009a-TieAndArchBars-3-DSC_5401.jpg)


For bending the bars, Kozo makes a more elaborate punch and die type bender that replaces the jaws in your vice.  I chose to just go ahead and use the soft jaws directly.  This won’t work for all parts, but it should work just fine for these.  I’m using the aluminum covered jaws on the vice, and a cheap pair of sheet metal hand seamers to bend the bar.
(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/009a-TieAndArchBars-4-DSC_5403.jpg)

This shows how your supposed to use the bending jig; It indicates how much bend to put in each side.  You have to make sure that the bar crosses the jig at the scribed line on both sides.
(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/009a-TieAndArchBars-5-DSC_5398.jpg)

Next I’ll bend the ends of the bars and then drill holes.  Oh yeah, and make another dozen of them!

Thanks for taking a look!
Kim
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: 10KPete on January 27, 2019, 12:42:34 AM
 :praise2:

 :popcorn: :popcorn:

 :cheers:

Pete
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Tennessee Whiskey on January 27, 2019, 01:44:24 AM
Ain’t said much, but, I’m really enjoying all this. These builds are definitely like the old “eating an elephant “ references: it’s just one bite at a time. Great work Kim.

Cletus
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: steamer on January 27, 2019, 02:13:01 AM
I remember reading the installment for making those arch bars......Yup   Eating the elephant!    coming along great Kim!

Dave
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: b.lindsey on January 27, 2019, 03:30:35 AM
Great progress Kim and that assembly picture helps a lot, though I am still looking forward to seeing them assembled and functional. Very impressive though!!

Bill
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Kim on January 27, 2019, 05:29:25 AM
Thanks Pete, Cletus, Dave, and Bill!
Appreciate the comments.

Though I can't claim to have actually eaten an elephant, the description sounds pretty apt.  One bite at a time.  :Lol:

Great progress Kim and that assembly picture helps a lot, though I am still looking forward to seeing them assembled and functional.
I looked at my original post and apparently my number 8 came out as a sunglasses guy (8), so I had to go back and add a space to keep the parser from turning into an emoji!  (I'd put the numbers in parentheses which is what created the emoji, like ( 8 ) but without the spaces).  Anyway, hopefully that makes a little more sense than the cool sunglasses guy  :embarassed:

And I'm looking forward to seeing it assembled too! Just a few more bites of the elephant, and I'll hit that milestone! :cartwheel:
Kim
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Steve17 on January 27, 2019, 08:34:38 AM
Looking really good and you've made it look so easy  :praise2:
Can't wait for the next instalment  :popcorn: :popcorn:

Steve.
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Kim on January 27, 2019, 05:38:09 PM
Thanks Steve!
Kim
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Roger B on February 04, 2019, 05:28:11 PM
Still following along and enjoying  :praise2:  :praise2:  :wine1: I like your stress relieving oven  :ThumbsUp:  :ThumbsUp: I must buy a few more insulating bricks  :)
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Kim on February 10, 2019, 12:33:36 AM
Thanks Roger! Yes, those bricks are a big help.  I've often thought I should get another set.  I keep wishing I had one or two more!

Kim
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Kim on February 10, 2019, 12:40:38 AM
My how time flies!  Not a lot of shop time over the last few weeks, but I finally got some time today. And it was quite enjoyable!

Last time I’d just started bending the Tie Bars.  I started with them because they were only 1/16” thick.  The Arch Bars are 3/32” thick! That’s getting pretty substantial!

After I bent the middle bends, I used the hole jig to drill the two middle holes to attach the columns.
(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/009b-TieAndarchBars-01-DSC_5404.jpg)

I wasn’t very happy with how this went.  It worked, but it just felt squishy to me.  I could wiggle the bar back and fortha bit and it just didn’t feel as precise as I would like.
(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/009b-TieAndarchBars-02-DSC_5407.jpg)

Regardless, I finished up bending the four tie bars.  This wasn’t a fast process.  It took 15-20 minutes per bar to get things bent correctly so that it all lined up, wass just the right height, and didn’t have any twists in it anywhere.  I just found it took a lot of tweaking.
(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/009b-TieAndarchBars-03-DSC_5408.jpg)

For the next set of bars (Lower Arch Bars) I used a different technique.  I calculated the location of the center holes and drilled them first.
(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/009b-TieAndarchBars-04-DSC_5412.jpg)

Then I marked the locations where the bends should go.
(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/009b-TieAndarchBars-05-DSC_5420.jpg)

The problem with drilling the holes first is that when you go to bend the bars, it wants to bend in the weakest spot – right where the hole is!  :Duh: But, as long as I clamped over the hole and bent the other side it worked just fine.  And I feel that the holes came out much more predictably.

Here’s one of the Lower Arch Bar fitted to the bending pattern.  Again, quite the time consuming process.
(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/009b-TieAndarchBars-06-DSC_5424.jpg)

And this picture shows the set of 12 bars with the column holes drilled and bent to shape.
(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/009b-TieAndarchBars-07-DSC_5425.jpg)

To drill the outer holes (the ones for the journal boxes) I was going to go back to the drilling jig. But before I did that, I needed to re-make the hole guide.  Turns out that my first attempt had a couple of problems.  First, the cross bar was too flimsy (I used 1/16” sheet material).  And second, the holes weren’t centered.  They were in the correct positions lengthwise, just not centered.  So, I made a new one using some 1/8” 1018 steel. This one turned out much better.  The bottom one is the original one (note the non-centered holes), and the top one is the new one (with the more centered hole pattern).
(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/009b-TieAndarchBars-14-DSC_5415.jpg)

And here’s how I drilled the holes for the journal boxes.  Attach one of the bars to the jig, like so:
(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/009b-TieAndarchBars-09-DSC_5436.jpg)

Flipping it over, you can see the template with the hole pattern.
(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/009b-TieAndarchBars-10-DSC_5437.jpg)

Then I just drilled the holes!  The little brass bar clamp is just to keep the bars aligned with the jig.
(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/009b-TieAndarchBars-08-DSC_5434.jpg)

And did the same thing with the Upper Arch Bar and the Tie Bar (they are the same, with the exception of the thickness of the bar).
(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/009b-TieAndarchBars-11-DSC_5440.jpg)

And finally, we have all 12 bars bent and drilled!
(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/009b-TieAndarchBars-12-DSC_5443.jpg)

By this time it was getting to be the end of my shop time but I just had to get one of the frames assembled:
(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/009b-TieAndarchBars-13-DSC_5445.jpg)

You can’t imagine how happy this little piece here made me!  I still have to cut the bars to the correct length, but that’ll be the next step.

Getting close to having the trucks complete!

Thanks for looking in,
Kim
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: b.lindsey on February 10, 2019, 12:47:31 AM
That is a lot of tedious work there Kim, but it sure looks good assembled. One down, three to go  :cartwheel:

Bill
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Dave Otto on February 10, 2019, 01:10:35 AM
Nice progress Kim!

Dave
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: crueby on February 10, 2019, 01:17:07 AM
Very nice!

Those little brass bar clamps are handy, got a set of those that come out once in a while for holding bits on.
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Kim on February 10, 2019, 05:46:22 AM
Thanks Bill, Dave, and Chris,

Yeah, those little brass bar clamps do com in handy from time to time.  You can't exert a lot of pressure with them, but for little things like this, the work great!  Those are from back when i was doing some ship modeling.

Kim
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Ye-Ole Steam Dude on February 10, 2019, 10:04:00 AM
Hello Kim,

Coming along quite nicely.

Have a great day,
Thomas
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Steve17 on February 10, 2019, 01:02:38 PM
Really taking shape now, it sure is time consuming putting holes in bent bars and getting it all to tie up.

Steve.
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: kvom on February 10, 2019, 01:04:04 PM
I hadn't seen that type of bar clamp before.  Looks useful.  Good progress being made.
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Kim on February 10, 2019, 04:26:34 PM
Thomas, Steve and Kvom,
Thanks for stopping by and taking a look!  I do appreciate it :)

Kim
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Admiral_dk on February 10, 2019, 10:01:41 PM
Very nice build so far Kim  :praise2:

I'm enjoying your progress and parts made  :cheers:    :popcorn:
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Tennessee Whiskey on February 10, 2019, 11:33:50 PM
Really nice Kim. I admire how you try to hold everything to the closet tolerance in the beginning and that pays off in the end. If you have more bending to do, think about hardwood dies. They can easily be cut and shaped, the grain isn’t going to split, and, you can easily adjust angles for springback. For thinner stocks, something about the wood makes things slide easier.

Cletus
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Kim on February 10, 2019, 11:40:37 PM
Thanks Admiral and Cletus,
Hadn't thought about using Wood for a die for bending... Wonder if it would hold up to repeated use (repeated 10-12 times).  The Aluminum jaws on my vise were starting to deform some on the edges after working over the dozen parts I had to make here!
Interesting idea for sure.  One I'll have to consider in the future :)  Guess its not that much different than using hard wood for forming copper, eh?
Kim
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: matthew-s on February 11, 2019, 01:24:52 AM
Nice work! I found the arch bars to be tricky - and that was with brass!

Figuring out where to start the bends, especially on the ends that hold the axle blocks, was particularly fussy - it’s hard to get the height right while nailing the position of the bend. Too long and it interferes with the screw heads (especially if using  hex heads). Too short and it does not look right, or at least hard to get them to look identical front to back.
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Kim on February 11, 2019, 05:22:59 AM
Thank you Matthew!
Yes, those were quite the fiddly bits to be sure!

I'd love to see your Pennsy.  Do you have a build thread going?  Don't remember seeing it.  If not, you should one and post a few progress photos!

Kim
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: matthew-s on February 11, 2019, 12:01:56 PM

I'd love to see your Pennsy.  Do you have a build thread going?  Don't remember seeing it.  If not, you should one and post a few progress photos!

Kim

I will try to remember to create one and show an occasional progress photo. I get so little shop time I try to maximize it. If folks would find value with random leaps of progress I’ll try to pull one together  :)
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Steve17 on February 11, 2019, 09:00:00 PM
Hi Kim,
I was always recommend to go down to a Lawn bowling club and ask if they had any split woods. They are rock hard and stable.

Steve.
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Kim on February 19, 2019, 02:24:12 AM
Thanks for the pointer Steve!

Here's my update for this weekend.

It took me a while to come up with a way to cut the bars to length, but this is what I ended up doing; I made a stack-up of the bars – not in the right order, but all in the same orientation.  I included the hole jig in the stack-up and used that as the reference length.

In this picture, the bottom is a correctly assembled truck frame.  On the top, is the various bars, assembled with the jig, ready to be cut to length.  You can see that the bars are in a different order in the stack, but all are the correct orientation.
(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/009c-TenderArchBars-01-DSC_5454.jpg)

Here is one of the stack-ups being milled to length.
(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/009c-TenderArchBars-02-DSC_5446.jpg)

To assemble the trucks, I needed some #3-48 1/4" round-head screws.  And I couldn’t find any 1/4" for sale.  I found 1/8”, and 5/16”, but no 1/4".  Not a lot of difference but the 5/16” were just too long.  Since I need a bunch of 3-48 x 1/4" I made a jig to help me cut them to size more quickly.  I know I’ve seen this several other places on this forum, but I don’t remember exactly who showed it, so will just give general credit to the list :).  I drilled and tapped a bunch of holes in a scrap piece of 1/4" aluminum bar then filled all the holes with the screws to be shortened.
(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/009c-TenderArchBars-03-DSC_5449.jpg)

I put the whole jig in the mill upside-down, and shaved off the excess lenght.
(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/009c-TenderArchBars-04-DSC_5451.jpg)

I was able to do 8 screws at a whack this way which made it pretty fast to do a bunch of them. And unscrewing them from the jig helped clean up the threads.  Worked a treat.
(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/009c-TenderArchBars-05-DSC_5453.jpg)

After I test assembled all the truck frames, I found they weren’t quite square with the world.  They would wiggle around when placed on a flat surface.  So I used the vice and a crescent wrench to encourage them to lay flat.
(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/009c-TenderArchBars-06-DSC_5458.jpg)

And here are all four of the truck frames!
(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/009c-TenderArchBars-07-DSC_5460.jpg)

With them all assembled successfully, it was time to take them apart and carefully mark each piece so I can get them back together in the same way.  I still have to assemble them around the bolsters!  If you look closely, you might be able to see the little numbers punched into the inside of the journal boxes.  There are numbers on the inside of each end of the bars and columns too.
(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/009c-TenderArchBars-09-DSC_5467.jpg)

I’m getting close to assembly time for the trucks, and before I get there, I needed to Loctite the wheels to the axles.  I’ve not used Loctite 680 before, but it is thick green stuff. It says it is designed for slip-fit joints. It was a bit messy, but seems to have worked pretty well!
(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/009c-TenderArchBars-10-DSC_5457.jpg)

The last thing needed before I can assemble the trucks are the suspension springs. So, first I made the mandrel (0.145” diameter).  And then I tried making a spring.  I forgot to take a picture of that – maybe next time!  But here’s my first attempt.  It seemed to go, OK, but my second attempt isn’t really worth showing.  I’m going to have to practice this!
(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/009c-TenderArchBars-08-DSC_5464.jpg)

That’s my weekend’s accomplishment.
Kim
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: 10KPete on February 19, 2019, 02:43:58 AM
Those arch bars look really good, Kim. I've never built anything that didn't require tweaking, especially bent stuff. I'm eagerly awaiting the day those all go together!
 :ThumbsUp: :ThumbsUp:
 :popcorn: :popcorn:

Pete
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Kim on February 19, 2019, 04:40:29 AM
Thanks Pete!  Appreciate the encouragement :)
Kim
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: b.lindsey on February 19, 2019, 01:13:33 PM
They look fantastic Kim. Also looking forward to seeing the trucks assembled. Do you have a section of track to try them out on?

Bill
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: steamer on February 19, 2019, 01:45:54 PM
Yes those are looking fantastic!   Now do they stay bolted together?  or do you silver solder them once complete?   :headscratch:


Dave
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Kim on February 19, 2019, 07:33:57 PM
Dave, this part just remains bolted together as best as I can tell.  Hopefully that's good enough?  I'm sure it will be for the number of miles (feet?  inches?) my loco will run :)

Bill, no, I don't have any track!  That's something I'm going to have to figure out soon here, isn't it!

Kim
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: kvom on February 19, 2019, 10:39:38 PM
Any material can be used for "shop" tracks.  Just need to make the gauge correct.
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Kim on February 25, 2019, 12:38:21 AM
Chapter 3.6 – Coil Springs
Now to do the coil springs.  Yesterday, I started making the springs in earnest.  Or what I should really say, is making practices springs!  ::)

After a while, I got a process down.  I tried free hand first, but that didn’t work so well. They just didn’t look even.  So I set my lathe to do 12 TPI threads and used that to lay the coils. That worked quite well and made things look very regular.  The reason I didn't start that way is because doing course threads like this required a gear change and I wanted to avoid that.  I should have just started that way. It was clearly MUCH better! 

I would lay a couple of rounds very close, engage the half-nut, run about 7 turns, then disengage the half-nut and make a couple more close turns.  I got better at this with practice too.  Here’s a pretty nice one just before it came off the manderel:
(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/010a-TenderCoilSprings-1-DSC_5470.jpg)

And here’s my fleet of springs (and garbage) from my work. The bottom row are my initial practice springs and me trying to get the right TPI spacing on the coils.  The upper row is as I was improving.
(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/010a-TenderCoilSprings-2-DSC_5471.jpg)

This is also straight out of  Kozo’s book.  I punched a 1/4" hole in a piece of scrap and clamped it onto the rest on my grinder.  This worked really well to flatten of the ends of the coils and get them to the correct length.
(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/010a-TenderCoilSprings-3-DSC_5475.jpg)

And the final contenders for the springs.  I chose the best 8 of these to use in the trucks. The others are spares for when I inevitably lose one.
(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/010a-TenderCoilSprings-4-DSC_5480.jpg)

Then it was finally time to assemble the trucks.  This took an inordinate amount of time. There are a lot of pieces and the all have a specific direction to go.  When I got the second frame assembled, I realized I’d done the first one upside down.  So, I fixed that. Then I realized I’d done the second one inside out.  So, I re-did that.  It took me till the last side frame to get it together right the first time.  Then I realized I had to put the wheels in before I got it all assembled.  So back apart and together again!
(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/010a-TenderCoilSprings-5-DSC_5481.jpg)

Anyway, after all that, I’m super pleased with how they look. They are just a bit too fun!  :cartwheel:
(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/010a-TenderCoilSprings-6-DSC_5485.jpg)

Next, I get to start on the frame for the tender!

Thanks for watching,
Kim
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: cnr6400 on February 25, 2019, 04:07:23 AM
Hi Kim, looks like spring's a bit early this year in your shop!  :naughty:

Everything looks just great on the trucks! well done.  :ThumbsUp: :ThumbsUp: :ThumbsUp: :popcorn: :popcorn: :popcorn:
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: 10KPete on February 25, 2019, 04:40:15 AM
There's no doubt that you know how to assemble those trucks now! Beautiful! I'd want a bit of track to roll 'em around on.... toot toot...   And you now know how to make springs. Excellent! :ThumbsUp:

 :cheers:

Pete
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Kim on February 25, 2019, 05:53:55 AM
Hi Kim, looks like spring's a bit early this year in your shop!  :naughty:
  :Lol:
Yeah, I wish. They're saying its going to snow more tonight!  ::)

Thanks CNR and Pete!  Yes, I think I've got the assembly process down.  And if not now, I will after I take it apart, paint it, and re-assemble!  :o

Kim
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: gary.a.ayres on February 25, 2019, 09:33:28 AM
Superb work, I reckon.

 :ThumbsUp:

gary
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Ye-Ole Steam Dude on February 25, 2019, 10:04:15 AM
Hello Kim,

More beautiful craftsmanship from your shop. Really enjoying following this build.

Have a great day,
Thomas
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Admiral_dk on February 25, 2019, 11:48:34 AM
Fantastic result Kim - the springs and trucks looks amassing  :praise2:

If I had walked and started commenting on the result I would have say that the boogies looks great, but you call them trucks - is this a country specific name ? :noidea:
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: joe d on February 25, 2019, 12:12:56 PM
Looking great, Kim!  You're giving me a flashback to the late 60's... "Keep on Truckin' Brother...."

Cheers, Joe
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: b.lindsey on February 25, 2019, 12:58:14 PM
Very very nice Kim!! I can definitely see where the assembly could get a bit confusing too  :headscratch:

Bill
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Kim on February 25, 2019, 06:18:24 PM
Hi Gary, Thomas, Admiral, Joe, and Bill,
Thanks for stopping by to have a look!  I'm pretty pumped about it for sure :)
Kim
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Kim on February 25, 2019, 06:23:35 PM
Fantastic result Kim - the springs and trucks looks amassing  :praise2:

If I had walked and started commenting on the result I would have say that the boogies looks great, but you call them trucks - is this a country specific name ? :noidea:

Interesting observation.  Yeah, I've heard of bogies before.  I was into Lego trains for many years (I am an Adult Fan of Lego (AFOL, if you will)) and since Lego is based out of Europe, the parts to make the truck were always called bogies.  I never understood it, but used the term.  I had to look this up. And of course, Wiki has the answer:

From: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bogie (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bogie)
"A bogie in the UK, or a railroad truck, wheel truck, or simply truck in North America, is a structure underneath a railway vehicle (wagon, coach or locomotive) to which axles (and, hence, wheels) are attached through bearings. In Indian English, bogie may also refer to an entire railway carriage.[4] In South Africa, the term bogie is often alternatively used to refer to a freight or goods wagon (shortened from bogie wagon)."

So, yes, you're right.  It's one of those differences caused by the Atlantic ocean apparently - bogie vs truck.

I learn something every day on this forum!
Kim

Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: crueby on February 25, 2019, 06:30:09 PM
Fantastic result Kim - the springs and trucks looks amassing  :praise2:

If I had walked and started commenting on the result I would have say that the boogies looks great, but you call them trucks - is this a country specific name ? :noidea:

Interesting observation.  Yeah, I've heard of bogies before.  I was into Lego trains for many years (I am an Adult Fan of Lego (AFOL, if you will)) and since Lego is based out of Europe, the parts to make the truck were always called bogies.  I never understood it, but used the term.  I had to look this up. And of course, Wiki has the answer:

From: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bogie (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bogie)
"A bogie in the UK, or a railroad truck, wheel truck, or simply truck in North America, is a structure underneath a railway vehicle (wagon, coach or locomotive) to which axles (and, hence, wheels) are attached through bearings. In Indian English, bogie may also refer to an entire railway carriage.[4] In South Africa, the term bogie is often alternatively used to refer to a freight or goods wagon (shortened from bogie wagon)."

So, yes, you're right.  It's one of those differences caused by the Atlantic ocean apparently - bogie vs truck.

I learn something every day on this forum!
Kim
I was wondering about that too, figured it was one of those regional or time things. Though it does get more complicated if you need to transport a wheel assembly to the shop across town - do you put the bogie on the truck (flatbed, that is), or the truck on the truck, or the truck on the lorry....  :insane:
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: MJM460 on February 25, 2019, 09:25:22 PM
Bogies and trucks, points and switches, sleepers and ties, a different language is used in the US, the rest of us have to be bilingual!

But strangely they use the UK version in Georgia, but then you have to understand the rest of their lingo.

You sometimes have strange experiences on a multinational project.  Can catch you out sometimes, just when you think you know what’s going on.

MJM460

Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: kvom on February 25, 2019, 10:05:04 PM
As compared to a bogey, which is completely different. 
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Dave Otto on February 25, 2019, 11:29:29 PM
Nice family shot Kim.
They look great!

Dave
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Kim on February 25, 2019, 11:59:50 PM
Thanks Dave, Kvom, and MJM,
Kim
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Kim on March 10, 2019, 01:36:16 AM
Last week I painted the tender trucks.  I took them all apart and spray painted them with a flat black paint.  I’m using Rust-oleum High Temp. I figure this is what I’ll need for the boiler and firebox, so just decided to use it for everything that’s black (which is almost everything!).
(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/011a-TenderTrucksPaint-1-DSC_5488.jpg)

Here’s the family shot, after I took the tape off of everything.
(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/011a-TenderTrucksPaint-2-DSC_5491.jpg)

And here we are after assembly. There are already bumps and marks that I’m going to have to touch up!
(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/011a-TenderTrucksPaint-3-DSC_5496.jpg)

That does it for the trucks!
Kim
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Kim on March 10, 2019, 01:41:37 AM
Today, I started on the Tender Frame.  The first part will be the frame sides. Which Kozo calls the Side Sills. 

Chapter 4.1 – Side Sills
There are two of these, a left and a right.  They are pretty much the same.

I cut two lengths of 5/16” x 5/8” 1018 bar stock, 15 3/16” long.  The part is 15 1/8 but I left a bit to clean up the ends.  Since these pieces are staying mostly intact, I didn’t bother to stress relieve them.  Though I did use my vice and some brute force to get them as straight as possible!

But before I did a lot of work on these long pieces, I decided it was worth investing some time to tram the mill.  I also squared up the vise.
(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/012a-SideSills-1-DSC_5498.jpg)

With that taken care of, I clamped the pair of bars in the vise and cleaned up one end.
(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/012a-SideSills-2-DSC_5503.jpg)

With one edge clearly defined, I used that as my reference to drill the holes in the side that will hold the bolsters. These are identical holes through both left and right sides. Then I made a 82o counter sink in each hole:
(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/012a-SideSills-3-DSC_5504.jpg)

Before taking the side sills out of the vice, I placed #3 screws in each hole and bolted it up to keep the pieces perfectly aligned.
(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/012a-SideSills-4-DSC_5514.jpg)

Then I was able to release the vise and moved the part to where I could reach the other end of it to clean them both up to exactly 15 1/8”.
(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/012a-SideSills-5-DSC_5507.jpg)

Following that, I flipped it over and made counter sinks on the outside of the other sill. Guess I didn’t have to keep the two sides lined up for this operation, but I did anyway.  I also marked them so I’d know which way was ‘top’ on both sides.
(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/012a-SideSills-6-DSC_5516.jpg)

And here are the mostly completed side sills.
(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/012a-SideSills-7-DSC_5518.jpg)

I still need to drill and tap holes in each end, but I’m going to wait on those till I can use the holes in the front and rear sills as guides to make sure they line up well.  But that will be for next time!

Thanks for taking a look,
Kim

Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: fumopuc on March 10, 2019, 06:26:05 AM
Hi Kim, nice family shot. They are looking good these trucks.
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: cnr6400 on March 10, 2019, 01:36:38 PM
Sills look great Kim.  :ThumbsUp: :ThumbsUp: :ThumbsUp:Re your lineup marks - maybe not strictly required in this case, but I think it's a good habit to get into to "think precision" in all ops. The easy ones are still easy but the tough ones are less tough, with this approach.

Standing by with  :popcorn:!
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: b.lindsey on March 10, 2019, 02:10:00 PM
Still making some nice progress Kim. The finished trucks look great!!!

Bill
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Kim on March 10, 2019, 04:48:22 PM
Thanks Achim, Cnr and Bill!
Kim
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Kim on March 10, 2019, 04:54:35 PM
Sills look great Kim.  :ThumbsUp: :ThumbsUp: :ThumbsUp:Re your lineup marks - maybe not strictly required in this case, but I think it's a good habit to get into to "think precision" in all ops. The easy ones are still easy but the tough ones are less tough, with this approach.

Standing by with  :popcorn:!
Yeah, you're right, it may not make much, if any difference in this case.  But since I machined them together this way I just want to be able to keep track of that. Sometimes it does matter, so I just try to maintain good habits :)
Kim
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Tennessee Whiskey on March 10, 2019, 05:10:49 PM
Excellent work Kim. Might be time to think about a powder coating setup ( won’t chip as bad) BTW, a truck is also the adornment on top of a flagpole  8). Following along  :popcorn: :DrinkPint:

Cletus
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Kim on March 10, 2019, 05:15:38 PM
Interesting thought, Cletus!  I may have to look into that.  Do you know if powder coating is ok with getting hot?  Like around a boiler or fire box?   :thinking:
Kim
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Tennessee Whiskey on March 10, 2019, 05:18:42 PM
Don’t really know. Check out Eastwood’s website. I’ve been seriously thinking about it what for the chipping reasons. I know KVOM and Stan both use theirs.

Cletus

Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Tennessee Whiskey on March 10, 2019, 10:14:12 PM
Here’s some more info

https://www.powderbuythepound.com/high-temp-gloss-black.html

Cletus
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Steamer5 on March 12, 2019, 05:06:13 AM
Hi Kim,
 Coming on nicely!

Check out Nelson’s site for using hi temppowdercoat, I got inspired by this & got my kit about well way to long ago, still to be used!

http://www.nelsonslocomotive.com/

Oh if nothing else it’s a great site to spend several hours reading!

Cheers Kerrin
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Kim on March 31, 2019, 04:09:02 PM
Yesterday, I completed the Front and Rear End Sills and attached them to the side sills.  It was a pretty good day, but ended in frustration.  :wallbang:

Chapter 4.2 – Front End Sill and Rear End Sill
These will go on the front and back of the side sills to make a complete rectangle for the tender frame.

The Front End Sill and Rear End Sill both started as lengths of 5/8” square 12L14.  Cut to length and squared up to size.
These are not really very remarkable in any way. They just have a few through holes and tapped holes.

So I set to work on the Front End Sill first.  These are #3 clearance holes for the screws that will hold the Front End to the Side Sills.  And this shot is just after completing the 82o countersink in each of them.
(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/013a-FrontAndRearEndSills-01-DSC_5522.jpg)

There are a bunch of #3-48 tapped holes too, but apparently, I didn’t get a picture of those.

On to the Rear End Sill.  This is very similar to the Front End Sill, but its 1/8” longer. The Rear End sill will stick out from the side sills by 1/16” on each side. The #3 countersink clearance holes are the same but the #3-48 tapped holes are all different.

There are also some holes for the rear coupler.  These will need to be drilled when I get that assembly completed.  But now that I have it all dialed in on the mill, I chose to leave a few marks on ‘about’ where they should go so that it's easier to position when I get to that point.  I scribed these with a small engraving bit I have.  It did the job nicely.
(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/013a-FrontAndRearEndSills-02-DSC_5524.jpg)

The Rear End Sill also has a couple of #8-36 tapped holes. These will be for rail posts down the line.
(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/013a-FrontAndRearEndSills-03-DSC_5527.jpg)

Here are the completed Front End and Rear End Sills.
(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/013a-FrontAndRearEndSills-04-DSC_5530.jpg)

Now for the fun!  I hadn’t quite figured out yet how I was going to drill and tap the holes in the ends of the Side Sills.  These things are over 15” long and even with my new big mill I don’t have the Z height to stand them up on end and still get the drill chuck and a bit in there. So, I worked out this method.  I awkwardly clamped the two pieces together, like this.  I had scrap pieces on the back and the side to help with alignment. You really can't make out what I did in this picture, can you?  Well, it seemed to work regardless.  :embarassed:
I used the clearance bit through the End Sill just to make a center hole.  Then I switched to the correct size for taping and continued to use the End Sill as a guide to help me keep the hole straight.  You can see the cordless drill sitting there on the vise waiting to do his job.
(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/013a-FrontAndRearEndSills-05-DSC_5536.jpg)

With the hole drilled, I took away all the fixturing, and making sure to clamp the piece at 90o to the vice jaws, I used a tap guide to help me tap the hole.  Again, this seemed to work pretty well.  Notice that I clamped the guide in place for added stability.
(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/013a-FrontAndRearEndSills-06-DSC_5539.jpg)

Unfortunately, this is where calamity struck.  On the LAST hole, I must have gotten a little careless, because I heard the dreaded crunching sound.  :o :'( :Mad:  I don’t know exactly what happened. I’d swear I was doing exactly the same thing as the other 7 holes I’d done this way. But clearly, I did something wrong.  Well, actually, I do know that I didn’t clamp the tapping guide in place.  I’d stopped doing that for the last several holes, just depending on my other hand to hold it in place.  That had worked for several holes.  But then this. Clearly, I let it shift or did something wrong.  Because here I am now with a two-piece tap, with one piece embedded firmly about 3/8” down in the hole. :wallbang:
(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/013a-FrontAndRearEndSills-07-DSC_5541.jpg)

There was no backing it out.  It's still there:
(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/013a-FrontAndRearEndSills-08-DSC_5543.jpg)

I’m considering what to do. While the tap is HSS, the part is also steel. So I don’t think the Alum trick will work (though I’ve only had marginal success with that in the past anyway).  I’m trying to think of a way to cut the tap out, but there’s so little material to work with.  The hole is centred 1/8” away from the top edge. And to make it worse, I don’t really have a way to get it in the mill to work on it.

My top thought at the moment is to see if I can chip away enough of the end of the tap to get a few threads exposed, then I can just make a VERY short screw to go in on top of it.

I’m open to suggestions.

So, ignoring that issue for the time being, I assembled the frame:
(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/013a-FrontAndRearEndSills-09-DSC_5546.jpg)
I was very careful in setting up which end of which sill went together.  But in the end, when I went to assemble it, I realized I’d completely forgotten to take into account that the Side Sills are NOT symmetrical. They middle bolsters are in different places from each end.  And of course, I can never accidentally orient things correctly, so had done it backwards.  But, on the bright side, my holes were uniform enough that even with turning things around, all the edges still line up beautifully!  So that’s one positive!  :)

Now I just need to deal with the half a tap that’s embedded in the frame there…
(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/013a-FrontAndRearEndSills-10-DSC_5547.jpg)

Thanks for taking a look at my trials and tribulations,
Kim
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Dave Otto on March 31, 2019, 04:46:24 PM
Bummer on the tap Kim, you will probably invest more time in trying to remove it than just remaking the part.

Not sure if you mill has enough travel that would allow you to hang your part off the front of the table, while clamped to an angle plate. Rotate the turret of your mill off center to be able to reach the part.
On the Bridgeport style mills being able to extend the ram helps with getting the spindle centered over the part. I don't think your mill has a ram? 

I have drilled cutting taps out using a center cutting 4 flute carbide end mill taking very small bites using the depth stop on the quill to control that. With a roll form tap you would need to use a large enough end mill to remove all of the tap followed with a thread insert (Helicoil). Oh and it usually takes more than one end mill to get through the tap.

Dave 
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Florian Eberhard on March 31, 2019, 04:46:40 PM
Hey Kim

I would either try using a "plug drill bit" (selfmade from some kind of tool steel) to drill around the broken tap, then cut a bigger thread into that beam and put a threaded sleeve into it.
Or you cut off a short piece, machine a step onto it and then make another part which is being screwed, silver soldered (would be my favourite) or riveted to the original beam to make it long enough again.

To machine the end of the beam, you could probably use your lathe and clamp the bar in the toolholder while the tool gets put into the lathe spindle (ideally with coolets)

Florian
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: crueby on March 31, 2019, 05:17:11 PM
Last couple of times I had that happen I used a small pointed diamond-coated dental bur in the high speed  rotary tool to grind out the center of the tap, then could wiggle out the outer teeth/flutes with tweezers. Care is needed to keep from damaging the threads, but it works.
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: b.lindsey on March 31, 2019, 05:31:04 PM
Bummer on the tap Kim, but the frame is looking good none the less. I would probably just remake, the one with the broken tap. Likely quicker in the long run.

Bill
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: cnr6400 on March 31, 2019, 06:21:56 PM
Hi Kim, do you know any mouldmakers? or any other local shop with EDM? If you were on this side of the continent you'd be welcome to drop by my shop to use my home-built EDM machine based on the Ben Fleming design. I would use a hex shaped brass electrode a little smaller than the thread and blow a hole a few mm deep into the tap. Then a normal allen key can be used to ease the tap out. For your next tapped holes, can I recommend a nice new sharp tap, and a few drops of some some good cutting oil?
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Kim on March 31, 2019, 06:27:17 PM
Thanks Dave, Florian, Chris, and Bill,
Appreciate the commiseration and the advice.

Dave, actually my mill does have a Ram head, and that a great idea!  I've got to learn how to use the capabilities of my new tools. I have to learn to think differently...

Florian, another good idea.  I've seen people do this - put the part on the cross-slide and the tool in the spindle.  I don't have T-slots in the tool holder platform on my lathe, so I'd have to come up with some way to hold things, but that's probably workable.

I like the Dental burr idea too, Chris.  May have to try that before I abandon the part.

Bill, I may remake the part.  Unfortunately, this is a large piece and I don't have enough to make a new one without ordering more.  The steel is cheap (
Its 1018) but the shippings a killer...  but probably still cheaper than a couple of carbide end mills!

Thank you all for helping me to think of options.  I really appreciate it.
Kim
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Kim on March 31, 2019, 06:31:03 PM
Thank you Cnr,
I didn't see your post till I'd replied.

The EDM sounds magical! I think I need one of those :)

Yeah, new tap seems in order for sure  :)
Kim
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: crueby on March 31, 2019, 07:09:37 PM
If you have another small chunk of the same steel, you could always cut off the end and silver solder a new end on it. I did that on my Shay frames after a measure-once-cut-twice boo-boo.
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: fumopuc on March 31, 2019, 08:16:23 PM
Hi Kim, I feel your pain, but as already said, remake seems to be the best option.
And spend some more money for industrial quality tabs.
My two Cent after banning the Chinese stuff from my shop.
What may be the reason for that ban ?
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Dave Otto on March 31, 2019, 08:43:01 PM


Dave, actually my mill does have a Ram head, and that a great idea!  I've got to learn how to use the capabilities of my new tools. I have to learn to think differently...


Thank you all for helping me to think of options.  I really appreciate it.
Kim

I was looking for a picture, but me and the forum search tool don't always get along.  :lolb:

Dave
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: cnr6400 on March 31, 2019, 10:40:05 PM
Kim, I just went back through your pictures in the posts above. The tap in the pics does not appear to have flutes, or maybe just one flute. Are you using thread forming taps in steel, rather than the more usual spiral pointed "gun" taps or "plug" taps? If you are using fluteless or thread forming taps in steel, I would expect you may have lots of breakages.

The gun taps will cut better and faster than any other kind I have used, especially in thru-holes. If using them in blind holes they have to be backed out and cleared of chips every few turns.

Just to give you an idea of the ones I mean you can see them at the following McMaster Carr link. I do prefer Butterfield or FEW brand HSS taps though, for quality of thread and staying sharp the longest.

https://www.mcmaster.com/spiral-point-taps

If you already know about all this, or if I'm not seeing the taps correctly in your pics, please excuse me for stating the obvious - just disregard it. Standing by with  :popcorn: :popcorn: :popcorn: for your next progress post.
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Kim on March 31, 2019, 11:01:08 PM
If you have another small chunk of the same steel, you could always cut off the end and silver solder a new end on it. I did that on my Shay frames after a measure-once-cut-twice boo-boo.
Considering this.  though as has been said, likely more trouble than its worth, but I might give it a shot anyway.  Maybe I'll go to double the work to NOT have to re-do work :)  But not 4x.  And Definitely not 10x. I have my limits!  :Lol:

Hi Kim, I feel your pain, but as already said, remake seems to be the best option.
And spend some more money for industrial quality tabs.
My two Cent after banning the Chinese stuff from my shop.
What may be the reason for that ban ?
Thanks Achim,  yeah, might go the remake route.  But I'm going to struggle with it for a bit before I go that way. Even though its likely the best option  ;)

I was looking for a picture, but me and the forum search tool don't always get along.  :lolb:
Yes, I've found the same.  The search engine built into the forum software is marginal at best.  I tend to have better luck just doing a google search and including "ModelEnginenMaker" in the search.  I often get better forum results that way!
Kim

Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Kim on March 31, 2019, 11:15:15 PM
Hi Cnr,
Yes, you're seeing right. I'm using forming taps. And I've used them in steel before and they have mostly worked - I try to stay under 75% threads. These should have been about 60%. But maybe that is part of the problem.  They work well in the 12L14.  I've used them in 1018 quite a bit and haven't had any significant problems that I can recall (and I tend to recall this kind of problem). But clearly I can't say that any more!  So maybe I'm asking too much from them?

You're thinking I should go to a spiral tap for the 1018 steel?  I'm OK with getting more tools :)  May have to consider this.

If you already know about all this, or if I'm not seeing the taps correctly in your pics, please excuse me for stating the obvious - just disregard it.
Cnr, please never worry about that in any reply to me.  Even if I know it, it won't hurt to hear it again. And if people hold back giving me good advise, I'm the worse for it!  Besides, even if I knew it, I wasn't taking advantage of my knowledge because I clearly broke the tap! This is exactly why I share my foibles (and there are plenty of them!);  so I can learn and get incrementally better with every screw-up. ( I mean, I already messed up, so I might as well get something worthwhile out of it, right?  :Lol: )

Looks like I might be asking too much out of the form taps?  They've done so well for me in the past, even in steel.  But if they are going to be questionable, maybe I should invest in some spiral cutting taps or something else?  Am I asking too much from a form tap when it comes to 1018?  what about stainless (303)?

Thanks,
Kim
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Dave Otto on April 01, 2019, 12:09:44 AM
Hi Kim

You should be able roll form tap any ductile material including SS. Personally for hand tapping I would rather use a cutting tap, and that is not saying hand tapping with a form tap is wrong; just my preference. I wouldn't hesitate to run a form tap under power in a machine or with a tapping head, but hand tap, probably not.
I think the form tap will be less forgiving to any misalignment. Another thing to consider as this is a forming operation and not a cutting one, the choice of lube may be different than with a cut tap. I would have to do some poking around to see what might be better.    Moly-Dee maybe?

Dave
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Kim on April 01, 2019, 12:26:29 AM
Thanks Dave, appreciate the input.

I've been using my general purpose lube for the forming tap too - Magic Tap.  It has worked pretty well for most things, but I clearly don't know what would be best. It's just what I've got handy.

My reasoning for the form taps is that since they don't have any flutes, they have a larger cross-section and therefore should be stronger.  Again, this was my thinking (though I do think I read that somewhere, it still doesn't mean its correct).  Plus, I've had much better luck with the form taps than with cutting taps.

Or, at least I think I have.  It's hard to say though. I broke more taps early in my model machining career than I have lately. But that may or may not be only the tap. Hopefully, I'm getting better at my setups and keeping things carefully aligned during tapping. That might skew things to looking better regardless.  Over the last several years I've switched almost exclusively to form taps. I've been attributing my better luck with tapping to this.  But there are so many variables.  The form taps I've purchased are much higher quality than the cheap Chinese cutting taps I used initially. That, and the experience thing make me wonder if my faith in form taps might be misplaced. Help! I'm having an existential tap crisis!  :help:  :Jester:

I think I'll be looking at getting some quality cutting taps and seeing how those serve me...
Kim

Kim
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Kim on April 01, 2019, 12:29:34 AM
OK, my current-most-likely-plan-of-attack is to cut a 5/16”x 3/4" chunk from the corner of the side sill and silver solder a little piece of steel back in its place.

My first step would be to use a slitting saw to cut underneath the broken tap and then use an end mill to remove the chunk from the main part.  This way I don’t have to mill through the tap.
(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/013a-FrontAndRearEndSills-11-DSC_5549.jpg)


Then I’ll clean up the notch, cut an appropriately sized piece of steel, and solder in place.

I won’t get around to this till next weekend at the earliest, so I’m still not committed.  Please feel free to comment if you have any thoughts/recommendations.

Thanks,
Kim

Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: kvom on April 01, 2019, 12:33:07 AM
Powder coating will be fine for everything except for possibly the stack.  Curing temp is typically 400F.  I've been using it on my latest project and don't expect to paint any models henceforth.
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Kim on April 01, 2019, 01:04:01 AM
Thanks Kvom,
I've been looking into powder coating and think I know what I'll be asking for for my Birthday!  :)  Seems like a great idea!  Always game to try something new!
Kim
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Florian Eberhard on April 01, 2019, 05:41:59 PM
Hey Kim

Why not using the hacksaw to cut that out and clean up with an endmill? IMHO, this should be the fastest way. (at least if your hacksaw blade is sharp)

Florian
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: kvom on April 01, 2019, 07:52:31 PM
Is the tapped hole really that deep?

You could try drilling it out using a carbide endmill.
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Kim on April 01, 2019, 10:08:06 PM
That's a good idea Florian!  Hack saw shouldn't be too hard :)

Kvom, well, its not 3/4" deep, but the tap is at least 3/8" deep, maybe a smidge more.
Kim
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Tennessee Whiskey on April 01, 2019, 10:47:33 PM
Commisioneratios on the tap. You’re on the right track: nip that corner out nice and square, silver solder in an oversized piece, and mill to dimension. Painting or powder coating will hide all sins. Nobody but us will know in the end. Just a Cletus POV  :lolb:

Cletus
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: rklopp on April 03, 2019, 12:50:48 AM
I love form taps for making threads in softer metals like 1018 even when hand tapping. I avoid cut taps whenever possible. I am surprised yours broke, especially if going for 60% thread. Did you use the tap drill size for 60% thread based on form tapping or cut tapping? My form tapping charts say to use a #43 drill @ 0.089" to get a 70% thread. A 2.3-mm drill would get you to 60%. I would expect to feel the driving getting really hard before you reached the tap's limit. The only time I have broken one is in the CNC by rapiding into the work after fat-fingering a bad Z value.
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Kim on April 03, 2019, 05:16:07 AM
Thanks for the reply Rklopp,

Yes, this has been my experience (limited though it may be), that the tap gave me very clear signals when it was at the bottom.  It wasn't hard to feel the difference and to know when to stop.  Even in the 1018.  I'd done quite a few holes in 1018 in the past, and 7 others in these pieces just that same day.

But you're right - I was using a #43 drill and that results in a 70% thread, not the 60% that I claimed.  I don't have a 2.3mm drill.  Maybe I should get one though.  60% should be plenty for anything I'm doing here.

Well, I did order a nice Union Butterfield cutting tap to try out (it just arrived today).  It's surprising the difference you can feel in the sharpness of the tap compared to the import cutting taps I have.  I will likely give that a try on some of the steel too.

But it's nice to hear that you use the form taps in 1018 too.

I'm leaning toward the theory that I was getting careless in my excitement to finish the job and I likely moved my tap guide.  There was a bit of a wiggle between the two jaws of the vice. That's one of the reasons I was clamping it down to start with.  Anyway, what's done is done. And I re-leaned a lesson that I have learned before.  Don't hurry. You don't get there faster - take the time to make sure things are secure and won't move about.  It's worth it.  :facepalm2:

Thanks rklopp,
Kim
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Kim on April 03, 2019, 05:17:55 AM
I love form taps for making threads in softer metals like 1018 even when hand tapping. I avoid cut taps whenever possible.

Oh, and I meant to ask... Why do you avoid cutting taps?  Inquiring minds want to know! :)
Kim
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: rklopp on April 05, 2019, 04:27:43 PM
I love form taps for making threads in softer metals like 1018 even when hand tapping. I avoid cut taps whenever possible.

Oh, and I meant to ask... Why do you avoid cutting taps?  Inquiring minds want to know! :)
Kim
Form taps are much stouter and make no chips. The formed threads are typically stronger, too, due to the work hardening that occurs while forming the threads. Form taps do require more care with tap drill sizing that do cutting taps.
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Kim on April 07, 2019, 12:15:34 AM
Thanks  rklopp, your reasoning makes sense!

Kim
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Kim on April 07, 2019, 12:21:12 AM
I finished up the Side Sill repair today without a hitch, thanks in large part to the great advice from the forum members! :)

I started, as suggested, by using a hacksaw to cut a notch from the Side Sill. I started with the longer cut and it only took a couple of minutes to complete.
(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/013b-FrontAndRearEndSills-01-DSC_5553.jpg)

The broken tap is out!
(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/013b-FrontAndRearEndSills-02-DSC_5555.jpg)

And cleaned up the cut on the mill.
(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/013b-FrontAndRearEndSills-03-DSC_5558.jpg)

I used a 3/4" length of 12L14 square bar for the patch.  This will be just a tad oversized in each dimension.  Here I’m squaring up the two sides that will be silver soldered.
(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/013b-FrontAndRearEndSills-04-DSC_5560.jpg)

I decided to use a #1-72 screw to hold the two pieces together while soldering. This shows me hand tapping the hole on the mill. I used a new Union Butterfield Spiral Point Plug tap and it worked like a dream!
(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/013b-FrontAndRearEndSills-05-DSC_5561.jpg)

Before soldering, I made several punch marks on the edges to be soldered. This is a Kozo trick (that Chris uses all the time :)) to help maintain a small gap between the pieces so the solder will wick through.
(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/013b-FrontAndRearEndSills-06-DSC_5566.jpg)

Here it is, all loaded up with flux and a few pieces of hard solder.
(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/013b-FrontAndRearEndSills-07-DSC_5568.jpg)

The soldering went OK.  Not the best I’ve ever done, but not the worst. It took longer to heat up the part due to the large bar. But eventually, I got there.  I had to apply additional solder, but it worked out in the end.
(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/013b-FrontAndRearEndSills-08-DSC_5569.jpg)

I let it cool, then pickled it for a bit and washed it up.  Then put it on the mill and started to take down the top.
(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/013b-FrontAndRearEndSills-09-DSC_5573.jpg)

Then the sides and the end.
(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/013b-FrontAndRearEndSills-10-DSC_5574.jpg)

Here’s how it looks after some filing and a bit of cleaning.  Not too bad, though you can still see some black that I didn’t get off in my cleaning up process.
(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/013b-FrontAndRearEndSills-11-DSC_5576.jpg)

Finally, I drilled and tapped it, as I’d done all the others (though this time, I used a new spiral point 3-48 plug tap).  All went well with the taping :).

After assembly, here’s the repaired corner:
(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/013b-FrontAndRearEndSills-12-DSC_5578.jpg)

And the whole frame.
(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/013b-FrontAndRearEndSills-13-DSC_5582.jpg)

You'll never see the repair after it's painted (or powder coated, most likely - that's the direction I'm headed :) )

Thanks for stopping by and taking a look,
Thanks,
Kim
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: b.lindsey on April 07, 2019, 12:33:03 AM
Looks great Kim, and as you say, once painted no one will ever know. Nice save.

Bill
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: crueby on April 07, 2019, 01:40:11 AM
Excellent repair!!
 :whoohoo:
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Kim on April 07, 2019, 05:14:46 AM
Thanks Bill and Chris! :)
I'm quite pleased with it!
Kim
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: cnr6400 on April 07, 2019, 07:51:30 AM
Top notch fix Kim! well done.  :ThumbsUp: :ThumbsUp: :ThumbsUp:
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Kim on April 14, 2019, 03:25:27 PM
Thanks Cnr!
Kim

Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Kim on April 14, 2019, 03:27:46 PM
Chapter 4.3 – Front and Rear Bolster
These pieces connect across the frame and hold the front and rear trucks for the tender.

The Bolsters started as chunks of 5/8” square 12L14.  They were milled to final length (5 5/8”) on the mill, then I found the center and drilled a “D” sized hole for the pins that will hold the trucks on.  This is not a through hole and only goes 3/8” deep.
(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/014a-FrontAndRearBolster-01-DSC_5583.jpg)

Then drilled and tapped a 3-48 hole for the screw that will retain the truck pin in place.
(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/014a-FrontAndRearBolster-02-DSC_5586.jpg)

To position the bolt holes for holding the bolsters to the frames, I needed to find the right vertical position.  To do this, I made a little scratch mark through the holes on the frame onto the ends of the bolsters:
(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/014a-FrontAndRearBolster-03-DSC_5587.jpg)

Like so:
(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/014a-FrontAndRearBolster-04-DSC_5590.jpg)

The horizontal positions I was fine using the DRO.  They just needed to be 0.375” apart.  But the vertical position was critical to making the frame line up flat.

Mounted it in the mill and found the vertical position (Y, in this case).
(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/014a-FrontAndRearBolster-05-DSC_5592.jpg)

This is a shot of tapping the holes.
This shot also shows my setup for drilling the bolster ends. I actually used 2 Kant-Twist clamps on this setup (kept it more solid), but I started taking it down before I remembered to get a picture!
(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/014a-FrontAndRearBolster-06-DSC_5595.jpg)

Finally, I drilled two holes for #3-48 CSK screws in the Rear Bolster. These will be used later to attach the Tank Floor.
(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/014a-FrontAndRearBolster-07-DSC_5596.jpg)

And here’s the beauty shot of the two bolsters.  Not really much to look at, eh?
(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/014a-FrontAndRearBolster-08-DSC_5601.jpg)

And bolted into place with the rest of the Tender Frame Family!
(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/014a-FrontAndRearBolster-09-DSC_5603.jpg)

(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/014a-FrontAndRearBolster-10-DSC_5604.jpg)

Thanks for stopping by to take a look at my progress.
Kim
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Ye-Ole Steam Dude on April 14, 2019, 03:42:28 PM
Hello Kim,

Still following along and enjoying your work.

Have a great day,
Thomas
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Kim on April 21, 2019, 01:00:32 AM
Thanks Thomas!
Appreciate all the support I can get :)

Next up is the Drawbar that will connect the tender to the engine.

Chapter 4.4 – Drawbar Pocket and Drawbar

I start with the Drawbar Pocket, which will hold the Drawbar.  This was made from a short length of 5/16”x5/8” 1018 bar.  I cut it and trim it to width.  Then mill a dado in the middle where the drawbar will fasten. (Do you call grooves like this a dado in metal work?  Or is dado just a woodworking term?)
(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/015a-DrawBar_Pocket-01-DSC_5619.jpg)

I drill three holes – one in the center for the Drawbar Pin, and the two on the outside for the 3-48 screws that will hold it to the frame.  Here I’m adding the countersink to the holes for the fastening screws.
(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/015a-DrawBar_Pocket-02-DSC_5623.jpg)

Next, I remove the Front End Sill from the frame assembly and connect the drawbar pocket with two 3-48 screws.  Using the hole in the Drawbar Pocket as a guide I can now drill the frame so the holes line up.
(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/015a-DrawBar_Pocket-03-DSC_5626.jpg)

With the drawbar Pocket completed, I move to the Drawbar itself.  The drawbar is specified to be 3/32” thick.  I couldn’t find any 3/32” thick steel bar, so I used 0.090” steel plate (4130a).  I cut a piece (slightly oversized) by putting my HF horizontal bandsaw in vertical mode.
(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/015a-DrawBar_Pocket-04-DSC_5616.jpg)

Then milled it to the correct width of 5/16”.
(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/015a-DrawBar_Pocket-05-DSC_5628.jpg)

Next, I drilled 2-56 clearance holes (#43) at the correct locations for the ends of the drawbar.
(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/015a-DrawBar_Pocket-06-DSC_5630.jpg)

Then used some 5/16” filing buttons to round the ends of the Drawbar.
(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/015a-DrawBar_Pocket-07-DSC_5632.jpg)

After rounding, I drilled them out to the specified size of 0.161” or a size #20 bit.  The reason I did the holes in two steps is because I already had some 5/16” filing buttons with a #43 sized hole. That made the re-use easy, and drilling the holes out afterward didn’t take very long at all.
(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/015a-DrawBar_Pocket-08-DSC_5634.jpg)

And here are all the pieces I made (or modified) today:
(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/015a-DrawBar_Pocket-09-DSC_5636.jpg)

Here we are with the Drawbar pocket assembled onto the Front End Sill.
(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/015a-DrawBar_Pocket-10-DSC_5638.jpg)

And now, in situ with the whole frame.  You can see I’m using a #8 screw to hold the drawbar in place.  Eventually, I’ll get around to making the actual Drawbar Pin :).
(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/015a-DrawBar_Pocket-11-DSC_5644.jpg)

That ends my story for today. Thanks for stopping by and taking a look!
Kim
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: b.lindsey on April 21, 2019, 02:21:05 AM
Great update Kim. It's all looking great!

Bill
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Kim on April 21, 2019, 05:21:01 AM
Thanks Bill!

And just now I noticed in that last picture - I got the Front End Sill attached on the frame upside down!  I'll have to fix that eventually :)

Kim
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: scc on April 21, 2019, 10:19:51 AM
I'm quietly enjoying this one Kim,   nice work.        Terry
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Kim on April 21, 2019, 02:51:11 PM
Thanks Terry!
Appreciate you following along :)
Kim
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Kim on May 05, 2019, 03:14:56 PM
Today I started on the Front Steps for the tender.

Chapter 4.5 – Front Steps

There are two of the front step sub-assemblies, which are fabricated parts, made up of several small pieces of sheet steel, silver soldered together.  I’ve kinda been looking forward to this!  It seems like a fun thing.  I’ve done some fabrication before, but Kozo shows a lot of different techniques and this is one of the challenges I was looking forward to in taking on this project.

The pieces needed for this sub-assembly are 0.040” thick and 1/16” thick steel plate (I’m using 4130 steel plate, which seemed better than 1018 based on the descriptions I was able to find online).  They aren’t big pieces, but later in this build I’m going to need some nice large pieces of these sheets for the sides of the tender and the engine cab.  I believe I ordered enough material to cover all the needs for this project, but I’d been intending to do a bit of a floor plan for the stock to make sure I leave sizable enough pieces for what is needed later in the build. And I decided this was the time to do it. So, before I cut the bits-o-sheet I needed for the steps, I set down and planned out my material.

This, as is often the case, took a lot longer than I’d anticipated.  And while I was at it, I did a rough plan for the copper sheets too – basically, any sheet material where I was pushing using more than 60-70% of what I’d ordered, I made a floor plan.  And here’s the results of my work:
(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/016a-FrontSteps-2-DSC_5651.jpg)

Not a lot to show for my time, but now I have confidence, that baring scrap (yeah, right!), I’ll be able to get by without ordering more sheet.

Not wanting to end the day having made no actual progress on the build, I did take the additional 30 min to actually cut the pieces I need for the step assemblies. 

In the top left corner are 4 pieces (0.04” sheet) that will become the sides. Then going clockwise you have 2 pieces of 0.04 sheet for the top step, 2 pieces for the bottom step (1/16” thick), below 2 pieces (1/16”) for the middle step, and the bigger square pieces are for the back (also 1/16” thick).  The picture in the lower left shows what the step assemblies will look like when completed.
(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/016a-FrontSteps-3-DSC_5659.jpg)

Next time I’ll clean up the sizing of these rough cut pieces and assemble them!

Thanks for stopping by,
Kim
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: crueby on May 05, 2019, 04:50:53 PM
Great start on the steps, always worth it to plan out the sequence. Kozo is an amazing source if techniques.


 :popcorn:
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: b.lindsey on May 05, 2019, 06:14:29 PM
Interesting parts. Is there a jig or anything to hold all the parts together for the soldering?

Bill
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Kim on May 06, 2019, 05:11:24 AM
Hi Bill,
For this assembly, Kozo's technique is to cut little slits in the pieces, which are a little oversized.  The slits nest together to hold things in place during soldering.  Then you cut (or file) the excess part away.  Hopefully that confusing explanation will become clear when I post progress photos in the next update.
Kim
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Roger B on May 06, 2019, 10:52:48 AM
Still following along and enjoying  :praise2:  :praise2:  :wine1:
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Kim on May 07, 2019, 05:00:54 AM
Thanks Roger!
Kim
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Kim on May 12, 2019, 03:32:45 AM
Continuing on with the Front Steps for the tender.

Last week I cut all the pieces from sheet steel.  Today, I started by milling the parts down to the correct size.

This is a stack of the six parts that need to be 7/16" wide.
(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/016b-FrontSteps-01-DSC_5661.jpg)

I did the same to the 1/4" wide pieces (no pic – it pretty much looks the same!)

Then I used a slitting saw to cut a set of notches into each piece.  I did this in stacks, since I’m building two stairs, and each one has multiple pieces cut the same.  It saved a lot of time!  This is the 1/4" wide step pieces, all with two 0.040” slits cut 0.130” deep.
(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/016b-FrontSteps-02-DSC_5663.jpg)

Next was the bottom steps, which also got two 0.040” slits, but these were 0.220” deep.
(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/016b-FrontSteps-03-DSC_5666.jpg)

Finally, I notched the sides, which have 3 slits each – a 0.040” for the top step, and two 1/16” slits for the middle and bottom step.
(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/016b-FrontSteps-04-DSC_5669.jpg)

Here’s a family shot of the Front Steps, all the pieces cut to width and with the appropriate slits.  I didn’t bother to cut them to length since as you’ll see, the extra length will be cut off later.  (Though, as I was slitting them, I realized setup would have been easier had I bothered to square them up nicely!  Ah well, one of those things I’ll do better next time :))
(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/016b-FrontSteps-05-DSC_5673.jpg)

This shows you how the parts fit together. 
(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/016b-FrontSteps-06-DSC_5675.jpg)

After a thorough cleaning, I fluxed the pieces up and put a 1/4" piece of silver solder by each joint.
(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/016b-FrontSteps-07-DSC_5677.jpg)

And here’s the first sacrificial offering.  Didn’t turn out too badly, though it slid out of position while I was soldering.  For the 2nd one, I used one of those weights to help hold it in place.  Worked much better.
(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/016b-FrontSteps-08-DSC_5679.jpg)

After a pickle and a bit of a cleanup, I bent the sides and did a test fit with the bottom step.
(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/016b-FrontSteps-09-DSC_5681.jpg)

Then I solder those in place.
Here’s the state of play when I got tired and decided it was time to call it a day.  Here are all the steps soldered in place, and below it is the back of the steps.  Next time I’ll solder the steps to the back and cut off all the excess.
(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/016b-FrontSteps-10-DSC_5683.jpg)

Not a lot of progress this week, but ever bit moves me along!  And tomorrow, being Mother’s Day, will be spent with the family.  So maybe I’ll be able to finish the steps next weekend?  We’ll see.

Thanks for checking in!  I do appreciate the visit.
Kim
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: cnr6400 on May 12, 2019, 12:54:59 PM
A tricky fab job very well done!  :ThumbsUp: :ThumbsUp: :ThumbsUp: :popcorn: :popcorn: :popcorn:
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: b.lindsey on May 12, 2019, 01:32:52 PM
Nicely Done Kim. I can see now how the slits lock things together for the soldering.

Bill
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Kim on May 12, 2019, 04:24:44 PM
Thanks Cnr & Bill,
Appreciate you stopping by to take a look at my glacial progress :)
I think I need a half dozen of Chris's elves to help me out.  Guess my cookies just aren't enticing enough  ;)
Kim
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: cnr6400 on May 12, 2019, 05:22:03 PM
Kim, I don't think it's actually the cookies that get the elves motivated in Chris's shop  - I think they found a way in to his spirit locker and found the Navy rum. Just my hunch  based on the egg nog fumes at Christmas time.  :Lol:

So far the elves in my shop just swipe small parts and hide them, and stone off the sharp edges on my saws and cutting tools. Probably need a better grade of Navy rum!  :naughty:
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Admiral_dk on May 12, 2019, 09:10:08 PM
Well Kim, the fact that you are moving along at a human pace, does not make it less enjoyable for the rest of us to follow  :ThumbsUp:   :cheers:    :popcorn:

And on a side note about Chris and his elves - since he is more or less one himself - you might consider them his family  ;)
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: crueby on May 12, 2019, 10:07:49 PM
Well Kim, the fact that you are moving along at a human pace, does not make it less enjoyable for the rest of us to follow  :ThumbsUp:   :cheers:    :popcorn:

And on a side note about Chris and his elves - since he is more or less one himself - you might consider them his family  ;)
Absolutely!  We all worked for the big guy up north till the, um, incident. I am not really any bigger than them, its just camera angles!   :Jester:
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Kim on May 19, 2019, 05:34:05 PM
First order of business for today is to silver solder the back onto the Front Step assembly.

I started by filing the bottom side of the step frames flat, to make sure we had good solid contact with the back across the whole assembly. (Sorry, no pic.)

Then, after a good cleaning, I fluxed the parts up and placed the bits of silver solder around.  I put them on the inside so I could apply the heat on the outside.  This worked for all edges except the middle step. And for that, I put the solder in the little section above so I could apply the flame in the larger hole.  I made a gap underneath the part so I could apply some heat there if needed.
(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/016c-FrontSteps-01-DSC_5686.jpg)

This actually worked out a lot better than I’d feared.  This is the most soldering I’ve done in a single operation – five separate edges, and several of them fairly long.  I did some preheating along the bottom, but most heating was done up top, right at the corner line between the back and the edges of the stair frame.  I’m fairly pleased with the results!  (Though it looks a little chard here, it's not really as bad as the photo makes it seem).
(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/016c-FrontSteps-02-DSC_5691.jpg)

After soldering the other one, I left them both in the pickle solution for a while and worked on a tool I will need shortly.  I have to make an 82o countersink for the mounting screws.  These holes are at the bottom of a 1/2" deep hole and very close to the edge.  So I need a small countersink to fit down there.  Rather than go looking for something to purchase I decided I’d make one. Seems like a fairly simple tool to do.

I took some 1/4" W-1 that I had on hand, and cut an 82o cone on the end, then brought about 5/8” length of it down to 3/16” diameter.
 (http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/016c-FrontSteps-03-DSC_5694.jpg)

Then I moved to the mill and made a single cutting edge.
(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/016c-FrontSteps-04-DSC_5697.jpg)

Then I heat-treated and tempered it. Here’s the end result.  Now I’m all ready when I need to use it!
(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/016c-FrontSteps-05-DSC_5701.jpg)

Out of the pickle and washed off (no other clean up done yet) here are the two front steps:
(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/016c-FrontSteps-06-DSC_5699.jpg)
(Also, here you can see the two mounting holes on that drawing between the top and middle steps – the reason I made the countersink tool.)

Next, we need to cut off all the excess metal – the part that was used to hold things together during fabrication but really isn’t needed as part of the steps. Kozo says to cut it off with a fret saw, but I chose to mill most of it off.  Seemed easier to me.  I started with the flat sides:
(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/016c-FrontSteps-07-DSC_5704.jpg)

Then moved to the complex angled sides:
(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/016c-FrontSteps-08-DSC_5705.jpg)

Since it would make less filing later, I turned the parts at an angle and cleaned up the diagonal edge too.
(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/016c-FrontSteps-09-DSC_5709.jpg)

And finally, I cut down the width of the top two steps to 5/16”.
(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/016c-FrontSteps-10-DSC_5712.jpg)

The rest of the shaping was done by hand filing – cleaning up the final bit of the outside edges and then creating the rounded part between the middle and bottom steps. Here’s the first step completed, to shape:
(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/016c-FrontSteps-11-DSC_5716.jpg)

Here’s a before & after shot, well, a not-done vs. done shot :)
(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/016c-FrontSteps-12-DSC_5713.jpg)

Next time I’ll finish shaping the other front step assembly.

Thanks for following along on my progress.
Kim
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: b.lindsey on May 19, 2019, 05:40:06 PM
Nicely done Kim. Lots of work in those little detail parts!

Bill
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: crueby on May 19, 2019, 09:51:46 PM
Steps came out great! Got to remember the trick with the weighted arm for soldering....
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Dave Otto on May 19, 2019, 11:47:12 PM
Nice work on the steps Kim!

Dave
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: J.L. on May 20, 2019, 01:39:29 AM
Hi Kim,
I really do appreciate the amount of work you have put into making each part. Here I am, reaching into a plastic vaccuum formed tray and pulling out a part that has taken you hours to fabricate from scratch.

You should be very proud of the each and every part that goes into this engine.

Very skillful work.

Cheers...John
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Kim on May 20, 2019, 05:37:19 AM
Thank you Bill, Chis, Dave and John,
Appreciate the comments! 
And thanks to everyone who stops by to check out the build, comment or not!  :)

John,
I'm thoroughly enjoying your D51-200 2-8-2 build.  Yes, they are different types of building, and yours is quite interesting and I'm learning a lot by following along.

Thanks,
KIm
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Kim on May 27, 2019, 11:04:13 PM
This weekend, I finished up the front steps for the tender.

After shaving off the extra parts of the second set of steps, I used my new fancy 82o countersink.  It worked OK.  Not great, but for the few holes I need it for, I’ll deal.  I tried to sharpen it several times, then I tried to grind some relief on it. That helped more than anything.  But it still pushed metal out of the way more than cut it. You can see a healthy mound around the edge of the countersink there.
(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/016d-FrontSteps-01-DSC_5718.jpg)

It was very hard to clean up the edge around the countersink since it was so deep in the hole.  I ended up clamping it in the mill and using a little mill bit to take off that edge.  And here are the two completed steps.
(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/016d-FrontSteps-02-DSC_5737.jpg)

That completed the steps themselves.
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Kim on May 27, 2019, 11:07:50 PM
Chapter 4.6 – Step Bracket

Next, I made the brackets to connect the steps to the tender frame.

The bracket is a little piece of 1/2"x1/8” angle.

I made it from a piece of 1/2" square bar (12L14).  I put a short length in the mill and cut out the excess to make the angle.
(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/016d-FrontSteps-03-DSC_5722.jpg)

Then using a chamfer bit, I cut a 45o along one edge of the angle.
(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/016d-FrontSteps-04-DSC_5725.jpg)

And cut the angle in half to make two brackets.
(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/016d-FrontSteps-05-DSC_5729.jpg)

After cleaning up the ends, I drilled and tapped #2-56 holes for mounting the steps.
(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/016d-FrontSteps-06-DSC_5732.jpg)

Then I drilled and countersunk the holes for mounting to the tender frame.  Again, you can see the marginal ‘cutting’ job that my countersink bit did here. But in this case, it was easy to file the little mound of metal away.
(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/016d-FrontSteps-07-DSC_5734.jpg)

And here’s the completed Step Brackets.
(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/016d-FrontSteps-08-DSC_5739.jpg)

Then I screwed the steps onto the brackets:
(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/016d-FrontSteps-09-DSC_5741.jpg)

And mounted the brackets onto the frames.
Here’s the family shot, of the tender to date:
(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/016d-FrontSteps-10-DSC_5743.jpg)

Thanks,
Kim
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: cnr6400 on May 28, 2019, 12:52:06 AM
Looking great Kim! top notch work.  :ThumbsUp: :ThumbsUp: :ThumbsUp: :popcorn: :popcorn: :popcorn:
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: b.lindsey on May 28, 2019, 01:02:47 AM
Very nice Kim. Was the countersink bit an import?

Bill


Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Kim on May 28, 2019, 05:48:00 AM
Thanks CNR and Bill,

Was the countersink bit an import?

Bill, the countersink bit was one I made.  You can see more about it in pictures 3 to 5 in post #316 (http://www.modelenginemaker.com/index.php/topic,8552.msg200871.html#msg200871).  So I have no one to blame but myself and my own inexperience.  But I learned a lot from this exercise!  I think a straight D bit would have been better.  Or at least make more relief on the rest of the cutter.  Maybe if  I'd made 2 or 4 flutes it would have been better than the single?  Just thoughts for next time.  It worked well enough, and I'm past that part now :)

Thanks,
Kim
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: b.lindsey on May 28, 2019, 02:43:59 PM
Sorry Kim, somehow I had missed that. As you say though, past that point now and it all turned out well in the end.

Bill
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Kim on May 29, 2019, 06:17:14 AM
Nothing to worry about there, Bill!  I'm happy to have people comment for any reason :)  There are a lot of builds going on here at MEM (which is wonderful!) and its hard to keep track of all of them all the time.  No reason to be sorry!

Thanks for the comments and for following along!
Kim
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Kim on June 02, 2019, 02:40:22 AM
Chapter 4.7 – Rear Coupler Pocket

Today I started on the Rear Coupler Pocket.  This will go on the back of the tender to hold the coupler.

This part is another fabrication job, very similar to the front steps.

The Rear Coupler Pocket is supposed to be made from 3/32” brass.  But I substituted steel for most of the brass, and I couldn’t find 3/32” steel sheet.  So I ended up using 0.090” 4130A sheet steel.  It's pretty close to 0.09375 (3/32”).  Here I’m cutting out the pieces for the coupler pocket from the 0.090” sheet using my HF saw in vertical mode.
(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/017a-RearCouplerPocket-1-DSC_5746.jpg)

Then I cut all the pieces to the correct width. I did four at a time here since they are all the same width.  These are being cut to 0.50” wide.
(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/017a-RearCouplerPocket-2-DSC_5747.jpg)

This is the back plate for the rear coupler being milled to size.
(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/017a-RearCouplerPocket-3-DSC_5750.jpg)

And a family shot of all six pieces that will make up the coupler pocket.  I’ve laid-out the locations for the slots and holes and marked where they are in black pen.
(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/017a-RearCouplerPocket-4-DSC_5753.jpg)

Back to the mill to cut the 3/32” slots.  Now, this slitting saw is brand new.  But its way out of round.  Like way out.  It only cuts with one tooth I think.  And It goes ‘Thunk, Thunk, Thunk’ as it turns since only one tooth hits metal.  Many of my slitting saws are a little out of round, but this one is WAY off.  I guess it worked in the end though.
(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/017a-RearCouplerPocket-5-DSC_5755.jpg)

Here are all the parts after cutting the slits.
(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/017a-RearCouplerPocket-6-DSC_5758.jpg)

And with the four pieces that make the pocket slid together.
(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/017a-RearCouplerPocket-7-DSC_5761.jpg)

Next time I’ll silver solder the pocket together, then solder it to the back.

Thanks for taking a look,
Kim
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Larry on June 02, 2019, 04:21:28 AM
Every slitting saw I use goes Thunk, Thunk, Thunk. I tend to think it is the mandrel but maybe a combination of the two. I have about 3 mandrels and they all do the same. Wish I could find a heavy duty accurate one.

You have taken on quite a project. Your posts are great.
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Kim on June 02, 2019, 05:40:55 AM
Thanks Larry!
Nice to know I'm not the only one who has lopsided slitting saws!  The 1/16" one I used recently was very nice - almost seemed to cut on multiple teeth, so I don't think it's the mandrel (though I guess it still could be).

Most of my slitting blades have some eccentricity, but this 3/32" one is the most dramatic.  It could be because i purchase cheap ones - they're all <$10 a piece, so I'm sure they're all imports, and it's pot luck on how concentric it is.  Some are better, some are worse.  And some are truly exceptionally awful! :)

Thanks for following along Larry!
Kim
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: b.lindsey on June 02, 2019, 01:21:12 PM
More nice fabrication work Kim. I would think something is amiss if my slitting saws didn't go thunk, thunk, thunk too  ;)

Bill
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Kim on June 02, 2019, 05:55:37 PM
Thanks Bill!
Kim
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Kim on June 09, 2019, 05:38:54 PM
Well, I said next shop time I’d silver solder the coupler pocket. But I forgot that I need to do a little more work to get ready for that!  I still need to drill & tap some holes for 0-80 screws to hold the pieces together during the soldering operation.

So, I drill some holes:
(http://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/017b-RearCouplerPocket-1-DSC_5762.jpg)

And tap some holes:
(http://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/017b-RearCouplerPocket-2-DSC_5768.jpg)

Then drill a few more holes – clearance holes this time.  I’ll be screwing the other pieces to this backing plate.
(http://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/017b-RearCouplerPocket-3-DSC_5770.jpg)

And finally, Kozo shows to take a little off the holding flanges here.  I think this is so that the outside edge doesn’t get soldered to the base – it will make clean-up easier later.
(http://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/017b-RearCouplerPocket-4-DSC_5773.jpg)

And here it is will all the pieces screwed together.  Front:
(http://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/017b-RearCouplerPocket-5-DSC_5774.jpg)

And back:
(http://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/017b-RearCouplerPocket-6-DSC_5778.jpg)
Now, the astute among you might notice that the solder holding screws for the back flange are poking all the way through.  I accidentally drilled too deep and broke through the other side of that flange. So I just used longer 0-80 screws to fill the hole.  The part will be painted, so nobody should be the wiser :)


NOW, we’re ready for soldering!
Kim

P.S. I did this last weekend and didn’t get around to posting the progress till now.
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Kim on June 09, 2019, 05:47:38 PM
This week’s shop time is silver soldering for sure!

Here’s the pocket assembled, fluxed and with bits of silver solder by each joint, just waiting for heat to be applied. This will solder the upright pieces to the base.
(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/017c-RearCouplerPocket-01-DSC_5782.jpg)

After a pickle and cleanup, I set up to solder the edges of the box together. 
(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/017c-RearCouplerPocket-02-DSC_5785.jpg)

And finally, I soldered the back flange onto the unit.  This is AFTER soldering this time.  Turned out pretty well.
(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/017c-RearCouplerPocket-03-DSC_5787.jpg)

Another pickle and clean up, and we’re ready to take the coupler pocket down to size. I have to mill off the excess pieces that were there just to hold things together during soldering. I started by evening off the bottom. It’s just flat, so quite straight forward.
(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/017c-RearCouplerPocket-04-DSC_5789.jpg)

Next, I did the sides.  Here I had to be a little more careful because the back needs to remain wider than the pocket.  But I  milled off the parts that were just there to hold the pocket sides in place.  (And the head of the screw).
(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/017c-RearCouplerPocket-05-DSC_5792.jpg)

After completing both sides, I did the top.  Then I put the part in at an angle (adjusted by eye) and took off the corners at an angle.  The rest will be cleaned up with files.
(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/017c-RearCouplerPocket-06-DSC_5795.jpg)

After filing everything flush, I needed to round off the front of the pocket.  The drawing showed a 3/4" radius.  However, the center of the arc was about 3/16” out in mid-air.  Rather than free-handing the arc, I double-sticky-taped a little piece of wood to the rear flange and use that to support the dividers while I drew the arc.
(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/017c-RearCouplerPocket-07-DSC_5797.jpg)

Then I filed the arc following the line.
(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/017c-RearCouplerPocket-08-DSC_5800.jpg)

Next, I drilled four mounting holes; two in the backplate (as shown below) and two in the back flange (not shown).
(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/017c-RearCouplerPocket-09-DSC_5802.jpg)

And finally, I drilled and reamed a 1/8” hole for the coupler pin.  I drilled this from the bottom since I could get a better hold on the part that way.  I would have been good to do this step BEFORE I rounded the front of the pocket, but I didn’t think about it.  I almost forgot the coupler pin hole completely!
(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/017c-RearCouplerPocket-10-DSC_5812.jpg)
You may also note the two little dimples in my vice jaws in the above picture :(.  I had a piece of packing in place when I drilled the mounting holes, but apparently, it wasn’t enough – or I was too exuberant in drilling my holes because I clearly drilled into my vice jaws on both sides.  How sad is that? :(  Ah well, it's bound to happen sooner or later.  And my vice is now 1.5 years old. Guess its time for some battle scars.

And here’s the completed coupler pocket!
(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/017c-RearCouplerPocket-11-DSC_5813.jpg)

The only thing remaining is to mount it to the frame.

Back when I was doing the rear end sill, I marked these holes, but I did not drill them.  I wanted to wait to make the holes till I had the part in hand so I could make sure they matched up.  Turns out, they matched up perfectly!
(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/017c-RearCouplerPocket-12-DSC_5803.jpg)

So, I drilled and tapped the holes (3-48).
(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/017c-RearCouplerPocket-13-DSC_5807.jpg)

Then, I mounted the coupler pocket.  Here it is, in its final resting place on the rear of the tender frame.
(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/017c-RearCouplerPocket-14-DSC_5815.jpg)

And another shot, just because it's fun.
(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/017c-RearCouplerPocket-15-DSC_5824.jpg)


Now, the Rear Coupler Pocket is officially complete.

Only a few more pieces of the frame (Footboard, and Coupler Pins) then we’ll be on to tank itself!

Thanks for looking in,
Kim
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Ye-Ole Steam Dude on June 09, 2019, 06:01:12 PM
Hello Kim,

Love to see this detail work on these simple yet complex to build pieces.  :ThumbsUp:

Your project is coming along beautifully.

Have a great day,
Thomas
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: b.lindsey on June 09, 2019, 08:09:02 PM
That is a lot of steps for that part but it sure turned out nice. Good stuff and great pictures Kim.

Bill
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Kim on June 09, 2019, 08:16:35 PM
Thanks, Thomas and Bill!
Appreciate you both following along :)
Kim
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: cnr6400 on June 09, 2019, 11:52:00 PM
Great work Kim!  :ThumbsUp: :ThumbsUp: :ThumbsUp: :popcorn: :popcorn: :popcorn:
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Dave Otto on June 10, 2019, 12:40:14 AM
Nice fab and machine work Kim!

Dave
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Kim on June 16, 2019, 03:48:16 PM
Thanks Cnr and Dave!
Sorry for the delayed reply.  Though I'd done this days ago. Guess I just thought about it and never quite did it!
I'm good at that :)
Kim
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Kim on June 16, 2019, 03:54:51 PM
Chapter 4.8 – Foot Board

Today’s mini-project is the tender Foot Board. Not being well versed in train anatomy, I’d have called it the rear bumper for the tender :)  But I’m learning.  I never know if the names Kozo gives things are just what he calls it, what its called in Japan, or the standard US name for an item.  But I generally just go with it since I don’t know any better.  So, Foot Board it is!

I started by cutting material for the brackets.  These are 3/32” thick sheet (well, 0.090” thick sheet, which is pretty close).  Here I’m cutting a strip off the sheet stock (4130a) for this purpose.
(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/018a-FootBoard-01-DSC_5830.jpg)

I cut them to approximate length, then milled them to the appropriate width (9/32”).  No pictures of this fascinating operation, though I’m sure you can imagine it if you try.

With that complete, I made a 90o bend about 1/3 of the way down the part.  This leaves both ends long, but I decided its MUCH easier to clean up the ends after they are in place than to get a bend in exactly the right spot – especially on such thick material.
(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/018a-FootBoard-02-DSC_5833.jpg)

Next was to make the foot board itself.  This is a 3/8”x1/2” – 1/8” thick angle which I made from a length of 1018 steel.  This is a shot of me milling the angle to shape:
(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/018a-FootBoard-03-DSC_5836.jpg)

After shaping it, I flipped it over to drill and tap some 3-48 holes to help hold the brackets on while silver soldering.  The piece sitting behind it on the vise is the rear sill of the tender frame.  The double row of holes for along this is for the other end of the brackets.  So, the spacing of these holes should line up exactly with the ones I’m tapping in the foot board.
(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/018a-FootBoard-04-DSC_5838.jpg)

Then I drilled the through holes in the bracket.  These were all located from the 90o bend.
(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/018a-FootBoard-05-DSC_5839.jpg)

Finally, before attaching all the pieces together, I filed off the corners of the footboard as shown in the drawings.
(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/018a-FootBoard-06-DSC_5841.jpg)

And here’s the Foot Board family, posing for a beauty shot before jumping in the fire.
(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/018a-FootBoard-07-DSC_5844.jpg)

All fluxed up and ready to go!  Note I’m using the rear sill as part of the soldering jig here to help hold all the brackets in place.
(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/018a-FootBoard-08-DSC_5846.jpg)

And done.  One thing about silver soldering steel – it can take a LOT more heat than the brass before it starts to melt into a puddle of goo.  And with such big hunk of steel to heat up, I melted the heads of the brass holding screws on 3 out of 4 of the joints.  I need to be more careful with my heat here.  I think soldering steel is letting me get lazy with my heat application.
(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/018a-FootBoard-09-DSC_5849.jpg)

After a pickle bath, we’re back to the mill to shorten the ends of the brackets to the correct length.
(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/018a-FootBoard-10-DSC_5853.jpg)

A little filing work to finish the job, and take the heads off the brass screws (or what was left of them after my burnt offering to the silver solder gods).
(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/018a-FootBoard-11-DSC_5856.jpg)

And there we have the foot board assembly!
(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/018a-FootBoard-12-DSC_5858.jpg)

Finally, situated in place on the tender frame.
(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/018a-FootBoard-13-DSC_5862.jpg)

Well, that was a LONG shop session but I completed the foot board!
Thanks for stopping by and taking a look,
Kim
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: b.lindsey on June 16, 2019, 08:20:37 PM
More nice work Kim. Am enjoying the step by step build log a lot.

Bill
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Firebird on June 16, 2019, 08:32:29 PM
Hi Kim

 :ThumbsUp: :popcorn:

Cheers

Rich
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Kim on June 17, 2019, 06:56:28 AM
Thanks Bill and Rich!
Kim
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: 90LX_Notch on June 17, 2019, 11:10:23 PM
I'm still following along Kim.  Very nice work.  I admire the soldering.  I've never done it.

-Bob
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Kim on June 18, 2019, 05:23:36 AM
Thanks Bob!
Please don't admire the soldering job too closely or you'll see how truly rudimentary my soldering is!  But I am getting better! :)

I actually enjoy the silver soldering process.  It's kind-of magical to see it in action. 
Kim
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Kim on June 30, 2019, 03:44:48 PM
Chapter 4.9 – Center Pins and Drawbar Pin

The final parts of the Tender Frame are the Center Pins and the Drawbar Pin.  These are simple turnings and shouldn’t have taken too long.  But being as talented as I am, I was able to make them take my full shop time today!  Pretty impressive, eh?

OK, I did some other puttering around – sharpened some of the yard tools that my wife had asked me to and fixed the electric hedger.  But after that, I started on my project!

I got all set up on the lathe and then remembered I’d left the change gears in a non-standard state.  That was back when I did the springs for the truck - I needed a really course horizontal travel for the spring which required a gear change.  So, I thought, “I’ve got plenty of time, why don’t I change them back now?”

So, I did.  It just took longer than it should have.  But in the end, I got it done.  With the added bonus of breaking the gear change banjo (or Change Gear Pivot Bracket, as they call it in the Grizzly manual).  This picture shows the change gears on my lathe. The three gears in a row there are all connected to the banjo – the bottom one is where it pivots and the next two up are mounted to the banjo.
(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/019a-CenterAndDrawbarPins-01-DSC_5869.jpg)

It’s held in place by the nut you can see just below the middle gear (to the left of the lowest gear). And by a clamping screw that clamps it to the pivot point at the bottom.

And that’s where it broke.  I was tightening the clamp at the pivot and suddenly, the screw turned way too easily. Apparently, I’d over tightened the screw and broke the casting?  I didn’t know I could do that.  I didn’t think I was exerting that much force, but clearly, I did.
(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/019a-CenterAndDrawbarPins-02-DSC_5865.jpg)

After fretting about it for a bit, I decided to go ahead and use the lathe for today.  The clamp around the pivot isn’t what provides the rigidity anyway – it’s the other nut that really clamps it into place.  I’m thinking as long as there’s enough material to hold the banjo in place at the pivot point, I shouldn’t miss that clamping force from the pivot too much?  Thoughts from anyone on this?  Am I foolish for continuing to use the late with the banjo broken as such?

Regardless, I’m going to contact Grizzly and find out what it will cost to get a replacement banjo.

Anyway, after that exciting little mishap, the rest of the work went without hitch.

I started with the Drawbar Pin.   This was made from 1/4" 12L14 rod.  Using a 1/4" collet to hold it, I cut about 3/4” down to diameter (5/32”) then chamfered the end at 30o using the cross slide.
(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/019a-CenterAndDrawbarPins-03-DSC_5874.jpg)

I then slid the bar out another inch or so and brought the required length down to diameter.
(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/019a-CenterAndDrawbarPins-04-DSC_5877.jpg)

And parted it off the rod.  I also took this opportunity to chamfer the top of the pin with a file.
(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/019a-CenterAndDrawbarPins-05-DSC_5879.jpg)

Now for the Center Pins.  These were also made from the same 1/4" 12L14 rod.  Kozo specifies these to be 0.245” to provide an easy sliding fit in a 1/4" reamed hole.  So I skimmed off a few thou from the 1/4" bar and chamfered the end.  Then I cut a 1/32” groove for an e-clip.
(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/019a-CenterAndDrawbarPins-06-DSC_5881.jpg)

Next, I used a parting tool to cut a 1/8” groove in the pin for a set screw.
(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/019a-CenterAndDrawbarPins-07-DSC_5882.jpg)

And parted it off.
And did it again.

Here’s the three parts I made today:
(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/019a-CenterAndDrawbarPins-08-DSC_5884.jpg)

Showing the Darwbar Pin in place:
(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/019a-CenterAndDrawbarPins-09-DSC_5885.jpg)

And the center pins.  You can almost see one of the e-clips on the bottom of the rear center pin if you use your imagination! :)
(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/019a-CenterAndDrawbarPins-10-DSC_5888.JPG)

Thanks for stopping by and taking a look.
Kim
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: cnr6400 on June 30, 2019, 05:17:55 PM
Drawbar and pin looks great!  :ThumbsUp: :ThumbsUp: :ThumbsUp: :popcorn: :popcorn: :popcorn:

Don't worry about the broken banjo casting. Seen lots of broken ones on machines from China. The castings are pretty iffy it seems. Just use the old one as a patterm and cut / mill out a new one from mild steel. Breakage worries overwith. Outline could also be laser or waterjet cut if you have CAD capability and friend with those machines. Good luck with the repair!

(By the way welding and bronze welded repairs have not been successful on several broken ones I have run across, welds held but the iron just broke again 1/2" away. Others welded fine. These experiences are why I suggest new fab in  mild steel)
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Ye-Ole Steam Dude on June 30, 2019, 05:53:28 PM
Hello Kim,

Still following along and enjoying your beautiful work.  :popcorn:

Have a great day,
Thomas
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: b.lindsey on June 30, 2019, 07:41:30 PM
Good looking pins. Sorry about the banjo, but agree a fabricated one and your worries will be over.

Bill
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Kim on July 01, 2019, 05:19:31 AM
Thanks Cnr, Thomas, and Bill!
Thanks for the suggestion on fabricating my own new banjo.  That makes a lot of sense to just make one.  I was hoping it would be easier to just get a replacement part from Grizzly.  But if its not that sturdy of a casting, maybe its not worth the money to replace.

I'll have to give fabricating more thought.  I'm still thinking the lathe is pretty usable even with that bit broken off the banjo, but it will inevitably break more, so I'll so something about it eventually...

Kim

Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: 90LX_Notch on July 01, 2019, 10:05:38 PM
I'd say you nailed those pins.  Nice work..

-Bob
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Kim on July 02, 2019, 05:38:28 AM
Thanks Bob!
Kim
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Kim on July 02, 2019, 05:42:39 AM
Well, all my deep thinking about fabricating a new banjo for my lathe just flew out the window today.

I called Grizzly and the part cost $34.38.  When I looked at the cost of a chunk of steel big enough for the bracket, it cost as much as the casting.  Plus I'd have to put a bunch of work into it. Sure, it'd be a stronger part, but this one lasted me 6 years.  If I spend $35 on a new casting and it last me as long, I won't be too unhappy.  And if it breaks again, I can always fab one then.

So, I've got a replacement banjo on its way to me.  3-5 business days, so they said.

Kim
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: b.lindsey on July 02, 2019, 02:19:24 PM
That seems a reasonable price Kim, Like you say, there is always the fabrication option down the road if needed.

Bill
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: crueby on July 02, 2019, 03:14:22 PM
That seems a reasonable price Kim, Like you say, there is always the fabrication option down the road if needed.

Bill
Before installing the new one, take measurements for any possible future making of a replacement replacement...
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: cnr6400 on July 02, 2019, 04:26:21 PM
Kim, with a new casting, there's also a chance the factory have improved the casting technology or the metallurgy of the part. Could be far better than the older banjo. The factories in China do sometimes make improvements if user's complaints make it back to them.

I did not realize replacement banjos were affordable now. I priced one a number of years ago to replace a broken one for a friend's China lathe and was quoted multiple hundreds of dollars and a 12 week wait by our local (not very honest or cost effective) dealer.

The ones I made from mild steel were cut from scrap on hand, so cost was just for the labour.
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Kim on July 03, 2019, 05:21:35 AM
Thanks for the support, guys!
Cnr, I hadn't even thought about them making it better :) That would certainly be a bonus!

Plus, I've learned a lesson - you don't have to reef down on the clamping screw - most of the holding power comes from the nut further up the banjo anyway!  I can just snug that screw up and call it good.  This should make the casting last twice as long - and any improvement will be a extra bonus :)

Taking measurements - good idea Chris.  Will I do it?  Maybe, but the problem would be that I'd never be able to find it n+1 years from now when I actually need it :)  So I may wait till necessity demands that work :)  (its not that  I'm lazy, exactly, I just don't mind avoiding work that doesn't need to be done, unless it seems like fun!  :LittleDevil:)

Kim
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Kim on July 06, 2019, 05:26:02 AM
Got some time in the shop today after the holiday festivities.  I started by doing a pretty good cleaning – putting all the tools back in their place, sweeping up the swarf and vacuuming things up pretty good.  It looks nice now!

I also spent some time unpacking the new addition that the Birthday Fairy recently brought me:  a new Eastwood powder coating gun and oven  :cartwheel:

And since I had some time, I couldn’t just let it sit there thinking it was unloved, I had to give it a try.

So, I dug through my scrap bucket and came up with an interesting piece from some past project and decided to try that out.  It was an aluminum hunk from the 5-cylinder rotary engine I did a few years back that was rejected for some reason I don’t remember.

I cleaned the part really good then hung it up to powder coat.

I made a powder coating booth using the box the oven came. I only got black and red powder, so I went with red. You can sort-of see the grounding clip at the top of the picture. This is after coating BTW:
(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/020a-PowderCoating-1-DSC_5899.jpg)

Then I moved it to my preheated powder coating oven (cleverly labeled as you can see) and waited for the powder to go liquid.
 (http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/020a-PowderCoating-2-DSC_5904.jpg)

Here’s a close-up of the part baking.
(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/020a-PowderCoating-3-DSC_5901.jpg)

And here’s the part after it cooled down.
(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/020a-PowderCoating-4-DSC_5906.jpg)

Interestingly, I was supposed to wait for the oven to heat up to 450F before I put the part in, and I kept checking it with an infrared thermometer.   It wouldn't go up past 250.  I was getting frustrated.   I finally tried opening the door and it was WAY hotter!  I was checking the temperature of the OUTSIDE of the door (go figure - it doesn't read temp through the glass door...  :facepalm: of course! :insane:).  Anyway, I put the part in, it seemed to go off in about 10 or so, then I set it to 400F and let it soak for about 20 min.  I took the part out and let it cool for a bit and that was all there was too it. Not that complex of a process really!

I’m just as tickled as you can imagine! :)

Tomorrow I’m going to strip the paint off the trucks and start coating the frame and trucks!

Kim
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: cnr6400 on July 06, 2019, 11:59:07 AM
The first part looks great Kim! Nice result!  :ThumbsUp: :ThumbsUp: :ThumbsUp: :popcorn: :popcorn: :popcorn:

Something tells me that the special powder coating oven could also be used to heat and discolour bread or different sorts of pies at breaks or lunch time.... who knew?  :naughty:
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Ye-Ole Steam Dude on July 06, 2019, 12:44:06 PM
Hello Kim,

That part looks really good, appears to have a nice heavy coating. :ThumbsUp:

This is good to know, now if Bill is too busy to do any powder coating for me,  :ROFL: :lolb:

Have a great day,
Thomas
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: b.lindsey on July 06, 2019, 02:16:36 PM
Great result Kim and it really isn't much if any harder that doing a good job with regular paint. Maybe not as many color choices but the Eastwood powders seem to cover most of the bases pretty well.  Happy belated birthday too!! Now looking forward to seeing the trucks once they are done !!

Bill
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Dave Otto on July 06, 2019, 04:06:21 PM
That look very nice Kim!

The usual method for prep is to sandblast (at least that is what the guy that I use does), do you have any idea how well the powder bonds to the base metal if it is only cleaned and not blasted? 

Dave
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Kim on July 06, 2019, 05:22:22 PM
Thanks all for the kind replies!

Dave,
I don't know how well the powder bonds this way. I'll play around with it a little more today and see if can give some metric on how well it bonds.  Just holding it in my hands now and scratching on it with my fingernails - it has a LOT better bond than any spray paint, that's for sure.  It feels quite secure.  Don't know how it will hold up when I start rubbing metal against it, but it can't be worse than that the spray paint I've been using.

The instructions they provide are to clean well make sure there's no moisture left on it and NO FINGERPRINTS - no touching the metal after the final washing. They do recommend a solvent based cleaner that evaporates quickly to help ensure the "no moisture" part.  I picked up their painting prep cleaner and used that. They claim its better than lacquer thinner, but I don't generally use lacquer thinner anyway.  I generally use acetone. Don't know if that's any better or worse, it's just what I use.

I'll have to give you a better reading in a few days on this :)

Any comments Bill? You have more experience with it than I do

Kim
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: b.lindsey on July 06, 2019, 07:06:26 PM
Not much more experience than you at this point, but I also followed the Eastwood instructions as you did and used their cleaner/prep as well. Like you say, the bond has so far been great and MUCH better than conventional paint. I suspect bead blasting would help even more but not required as long as you are down to bare metal for the powder coat.

Bill
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: crueby on July 06, 2019, 08:41:19 PM
Is it possible to mask off a design on the powder coat, and apply another color on top? Though that would require tape that would take the baking...  :headscratch:
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: b.lindsey on July 06, 2019, 09:42:39 PM
Chris, you can do overcoats, and in fact some of the translucent powders require a bast coat. Hi temp tape is available in both fiberglass and some sort of plastic.

Bill
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: crueby on July 06, 2019, 11:20:33 PM
Neat stuff.... Need to put one of those setups on my Christmas list...   :atcomputer:
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Kim on July 07, 2019, 06:05:46 AM
Yes!  You certainly need one of these, Chris! :)  Quite fun!

I'll post today's update soon (tomorrow sometime probably).  Unfortunately, today's session was slightly less successful - I don't think I got the powder quite thick enough this time, so it's going back to the paint shop for another coat.

But still, the process worked well, it was just inexperience on the part of the guy running the paint booth.  Hopefully he'll get better or I'll have to fire him :)

As for two colors of powder coat paint - I'm sure you can do this but after playing with the tape some today, it does mask the powder and withstand the heat - I can verify that.  But I don't think you get the same crisp line you would expect with sprayed paint.  It just seems to creep around corners and under the edge of the tape a little bit more than has been my experience with spray paint.

Kim
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: b.lindsey on July 07, 2019, 12:34:05 PM
Kim, were you using the fiberglass tape or the blue plastic hi-temp one? I ordered some of the blue but so far have only tried the fiberglass. I am hoping the blue may provide crisper lines at least on smooth surfaces. But I agree, the electrostatic charge will definitely pull powder into even small spaces if not masked perfectly.

Bill
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: kvom on July 07, 2019, 02:14:19 PM
Masking is probably the hardest part of powder coating.   ::)

I bought a set of varying widths of tape for this purpose.  You can get a fine  edge if done properly.  I also got the set of plugs for varying size holes, although for threaded holes a screw works best. 

The Eastwood gun has two settings, with the #2 setting recommended for spraying tight corners and small spaces.
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: crueby on July 07, 2019, 02:36:03 PM
Which version gun kit did you guys get from Eastwood?
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: b.lindsey on July 07, 2019, 02:46:15 PM
Chris, I got the dual voltage one just to have the added capability.

Bill
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Kim on July 07, 2019, 03:17:23 PM
Like Bill, I got the dual voltage gun.  Seemed like 2 for 1 a little more money, right?  If I need it, I'll be glad I sprung the extra $40 for the dual voltage gun (that's my theory anyway :)).

Hi Kvom, I got one of the plug sets too, though I haven't had an opportunity to use them yet.

Bill, on the high-temp masking tape - I got several widths of the blue-green plasticy tape which is what I used. But you're right - I'm not using it on a flat surface.  I'm bending around corners and doing lots of weird stuff on these parts, so it isn't a fair trial really.  It probably will make much more crisp lines on a flatter surface.

I also got one roll of the white fiberglass tape, because it came with the 'accessories' pack that I got.  Haven't used that yet.

Kim
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Kim on July 07, 2019, 03:20:15 PM
First order of business today was to dis-assemble everything into its constituent parts for a paint strip, in preparation for powder coating.  I took this opportunity to get a quick family shot of all parts made to date.  Doesn’t look like so much when it's just sitting there. But that was a lot of work!
(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/020b-PowderCoating-1-DSC_5909.jpg)

I decided the best way to do the wheels was to disassemble them too.  I had to heat them up to release the Loctite.
(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/020b-PowderCoating-2-DSC_5910.jpg)

This also had the advantage of helping to strip the paint some.
(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/020b-PowderCoating-3-DSC_5913.jpg)

Still took quite a bit of work with a wire brush and a lot of buffing with a 3M mesh wheel.  But I got them back to pretty nice condition for the powder coating.

I covered the edges with the high-temp masking tape, made little wire hangers for them, and powdered them.  I hung 3 at a time in my high-tech paint booth.  I did have to remember to move the ground clip when I moved from one to the next.  After coating them, I moved them to the rack that I’d set up right next to the powder coating station.
(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/020b-PowderCoating-4-DSC_5915.jpg)

When all eight wheels were powdered, I moved them to the oven to bake.  It’s interesting, watching the powder melt and start to flow.
(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/020b-PowderCoating-5-DSC_5918.jpg)

After the baking period, I moved the whole rack out to cool.
(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/020b-PowderCoating-6-DSC_5921.jpg)

Unfortunately, after cooling, it became clear to me that I didn’t really get a thick enough cover with the powder.  A few are OK, but several just aren’t even and don’t have the color I want.  It’s easier to see in person, but a few you can see in the picture too, like the one in the top left corner, and the second one from the right on the top, to name a few.
(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/020b-PowderCoating-7-DSC_5925.jpg)

Anyway, now I’ll get to try the re-coating.  It’s not any different other than it sounds like it can be a little harder to get the powder to coat well.  Guess I’ll find out! :)

Kim

Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: b.lindsey on July 07, 2019, 05:16:23 PM
Interested to see how that works out Kim. I haven't tried a second coat yet either. Might be good to use the 25kV setting for the redo though. Looking forward to seeing the results.

Bill
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: kvom on July 07, 2019, 10:54:46 PM
A bit of a rub with scotchbrite helps with the second coat adhesion, although I haven't needed it on most parts.
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: crueby on July 07, 2019, 11:47:17 PM
When you talk about the powder flowing, can a too-thick coating sag? Or does it just melt the particles into one film layer? Wondering if going on too thick could run like paint does? Fascinating stuff!
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Kim on July 08, 2019, 05:46:17 AM
Well, with my minimal experience, it seems that the powder melts and flows together - a little.  But if it seems to need to be pretty evenly distributed or you can get lumps - they refer to it as "Orange Peel" though this seems to have several potential causes (powder too thick, bake too long, etc.)  I've got a few not-so-ideal pictures I can share soon.  Not sure if it will run like conventional paint though.  It might if you could stack enough powder in one place.

My re-coating went pretty well.  Most of the 8 wheels came out pretty good. but one I fussed around with a lot and it just kept getting worse.  I touched it with my finger once while trying to position it - that was dumb.  Big fat oily finger print right in the middle...  I cooked the other 7, and they are mostly OK - still might be a little thin in a spot or two.  But that one - I cleaned all the lose powder off and tried it again - a couple different times.

I think the concave shape of the wheels causes some problems.

Higher voltage didn't help.  Lower voltage is what most things I read recommended.  So I used the 15K setting.  The thing that actually helped the most was to turn the air pressure down.  I though I had it down below 10psi, but apparently not - it was more like 20psi, which was almost blowing the powder off the wheel.  Anyway, bring the pressure down helped the most (and getting rid of my finger print!  :wallbang:).

Pics to follow soon.
Kim

Eventually, the things that see
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: mike mott on July 12, 2019, 04:10:11 PM
Good Morning Kim
I just finished reading through this entire thread, and I am really enjoying your detailed descriptions of each step. I have Kozo's book as well, and your posts have added a great deal to the work. It looks like you have some nice tooling as well. I will follow along now that I have the background of your build. Oh yes and it all looks great so far.

Mike 
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Kim on July 12, 2019, 09:34:54 PM
Thanks Mike!
Appreciate the kind words :)

Hopefully, me documenting my struggles can be helpful others.  It is certainly helpful for me!  I get so much amazing feedback from the members of this forum.  everything I know about model engineering, I've learned from people right here, sharing their wisdom and experience with me.

Kim
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Kim on July 14, 2019, 11:12:33 PM
Well, I wasn’t pleased at all with my second coat either.  It was marginally better, but most wheels still had very poor coverage, as can be seen in this picture.  I just wasn’t happy with the look at all.
(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/020c-PowderCoating-1-DSC_5931.jpg)

So, I tried going back to basics.  Things just didn’t seem to be getting the powder and I wondered why. So I used an ohm-meter and sure enough – there was NO electrical connection between my wire and the part.  And looking at the hole in the wheel I could see that it was completely coated with baked-on paint. As was the wire I used to hold it. This picture doesn't show it very well, but it is quite clear in real life.   Things are dark in that hole, which messes up the picture. But trust me, it was completely coated – on all wheels.
(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/020c-PowderCoating-2-DSC_5937.jpg)

So, I took the wire out and tossed it.  Figured it was way cheaper to spend a little wire on a new hanger. Then I used a reamer to clean out the hole.  With new wire and a reamed hole, I got an excellent electrical connection.
(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/020c-PowderCoating-3-DSC_5939.jpg)

I did this to ALL the wheels.  Then tried re-coating them.  THIS time, I made sure my air pressure was turned way down (below 10psi), AND I used the diffuser tip on the powder coating gun.  You can see that in this picture – it’s the blue round thingy on the end of the gun (yeah, it's blue, it just has red powder all over it!). The idea of the diffuser is that it helps disperse the powder while preventing the blast of air from being so strong that it blows the powder off the part.
(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/020c-PowderCoating-4-DSC_5941.jpg)

Also, I ended up doing the parts laying down, instead of suspended. I don’t know if this made any real difference – my thinking was that gravity might help some. But in the end, I think the main differences was – 1) good electrical connection, 2) taking the powdering a little more slowly, and 3) making sure I got good coverage.
(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/020c-PowderCoating-5-DSC_5944.jpg)

I think my real problem with my original coating was that I just didn’t get enough powder on the part.  The second try I think I didn’t have a good electrical connection, which made the powder not stick very well.  And with my inexperience, I didn't recognize what "enough powder" looked like.  Guess that's what experience will do for you, eh?

Here we are, baking the parts in the oven.
(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/020c-PowderCoating-6-DSC_5948.jpg)

After cooling, I took them out and started to strip the masking off.  It’s clear my masking failed on a few of the parts – I think this is a result of the many coatings and re-bakings.
(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/020c-PowderCoating-7-DSC_5950.jpg)

After a considerable clean-up effort consisting of a lot of scraping with an X-Acto knife, some wire-brushing, and the use of sandpaper on a mandrel on the lathe, here’s how the came out:
(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/020c-PowderCoating-8-DSC_5953.jpg)

Now, after the 3rd attempt, I am happy with them :)

On to black! Everything else will be powder coated black now!

One thing left to do on the wheels though. I don’t really want them to rust, and I see the steel (1018 and 12L14 – but 12L14 is worse) in my shop rust over time and I don’t really want to deal with that.  So, I’m seriously considering spray them with a clear coat.  Just regular spray paint mind you, no powder clear coat – that would be too much (I don’t really want that thick glossy look anyway). 

If you have any experience with this or feel that I’m planning to do something really stupid, please feel free to let me know!  But that’s my plan at the moment.

Thanks,
Kim

Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: b.lindsey on July 15, 2019, 12:15:19 AM
Clear coat or an oily tool dip will keep the rust at bay Kim. Good excuse to get a dipping pot and heat soluble coating. But yeah, easy to spend other people's money, just ask Tennessee Whisky  :lolb:

Bill

Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: crueby on July 15, 2019, 12:46:26 AM
Some great learning Kim! Guess that any new process has its key things, looking ng much better. For my Kozo Shay, had same concern with the rims rusting, also 12L14, so used some clear coat spray, worked fine.
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Kim on July 15, 2019, 05:31:18 AM
Thanks for the input Bill and Chris,
Good to know that others have done similar.  I've used the technique on model ships to keep the copper plating from oxidizing, and it has worked pretty well, so I hope for similar experience here.
Kim
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: crueby on July 15, 2019, 01:13:15 PM
Ship models?  Pictures?!
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: mike mott on July 15, 2019, 01:48:39 PM
Yes pictures...would be good.

Mike
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Flyboy Jim on July 15, 2019, 02:36:23 PM
The wheels came out great Kim.  :ThumbsUp: Also, I now have a better picture of the powder coating process.

I too would love to see pictures of your ship models.  :)

Jim
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Ye-Ole Steam Dude on July 15, 2019, 09:18:37 PM
Hello Kim,

OK I am also in line to see the ship photos ;D

Have a great day,
Thomas
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Kim on July 17, 2019, 04:27:05 PM
Well, since you asked, I'll post a few pics… My efforts in the model ship world are nothing compared to Chris, and Mike’s, and I’m sure many others.  I played around for a few years, completed one model and made it a good way into another.  Very modest work by comparison.

The first one was a Mississippi sternwheeler.  Not overly prototypical, but it was a fun, engaging project and got me into the hobby.
(http://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/020c-PowderCoating-KingOfTheMississippi1.jpg)

The next one I did was the HMS Surprise. It started as a kit but evolved significantly from there.  It’s plank-on-bulkhead construction and I learned a lot in the process. I painted and covered below the waterline with copper plates.  This is what I did the clear coat on.
(http://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/020c-PowderCoating-HMSSurprise2.jpg)

Here’s the lower deck with completed chain pumps.
(http://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/020c-PowderCoating-HMSSurprise1.jpg)

I was making the cannons for the main gun deck.  I didn’t like the ones that came with the kit, so I made my own.  Made 22 brass cannons and blackened them.  These were going to go on the lower deck before I put the upper deck in place.
(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/020c-PowderCoating-HMSSurpise-Cannons.jpg)

But I had so much fun making the cannons it diverted me into building a little steam engine. Then that became another, and on we went.  I haven’t gotten back to completing the ship yet.  Likely will someday.  When the mood strikes.

Oh, and there’s one more model ship I built.  This one is a pirate ship I built with my daughter. She was about 5 at the time. It’s her paint scheme.  But this one, at least, has been completed!
(http://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/020c-PowderCoating-PirateShip.jpg)

So, that’s my foray into model ships.
Kim

Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: b.lindsey on July 17, 2019, 04:37:17 PM
Thanks for showing those Kim. Funny how one hobby can lead into others isn't it?

Bill
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: crueby on July 17, 2019, 06:06:44 PM
Nice! Thanks for sharing those!
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: cnr6400 on July 17, 2019, 09:00:29 PM
Great looking ships Kim! Your cannon in particular look superb. as does the "Surprise" hull. Have you read the Patrick O'Brien books? 'HMS Surprise' is one of his best.

Got some projects like the pirate ship on the go with my 5 and 10 yr old nieces. Great to do some shop work with kids, whatever form it takes! The 5 yr old loves to do "carpentry" with rigid styrene foam (cutting, shaping, nailing, gluing it). When she progresses to working wood there will be no stopping her! Her older sister is doing some simple metal work in steel and aluminum and does very well. 

Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Kim on July 18, 2019, 05:13:28 AM
Yes, I've read many of the Patric O'Brien books.  That was, of course, part of the inspiration for me tackling that model.  I was already committed and partway into it when I learned that the Surprise in the books isn't exactly the Surprise from real life. There were some similarities, but not the same.  I chose to model the HMS Surprise from the books, which, interestingly enough, gave me a lot of source material :)

But it's been long enough now I'd have to re-do my research.  I used to know exactly how many of what guns were on each deck and all that sort of nonsense.  It's surprising (no pun intended) how much you can forget when you stop thinking about something for 7 years!  :embarassed:

And it's great to do projects with the kids.  It's fun to just see where their imaginations take them.

But it was all fun!
Kim
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Flyboy Jim on July 18, 2019, 02:55:43 PM
Nice ship models Kim.  :ThumbsUp: You are certainly not alone in the "unfinished model" arena.  :facepalm:

As far as: "It's surprising (no pun intended) how much you can forget when you stop thinking about something for 7 years!" That's no big deal. What worries me is how much I forget when I stop thinking about something for 7 MINUTES.  :facepalm:

Jim
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: mike mott on July 18, 2019, 03:25:25 PM
Quote
What worries me is how much I forget when I stop thinking about something for 7 MINUTES.

Almost spilled my tea laughing.

Mike
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Ye-Ole Steam Dude on July 18, 2019, 04:17:44 PM
Hello Kim,

Thanks for showing the ship photos. You must finish that Pirate Ship and I love the paddle wheeler.

Have a great day,
Thomas
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Kim on July 21, 2019, 04:28:59 PM
Thanks for the kind words for my attempts at ship modeling.  I do plan to complete them.  I've got several years into the Surprise, and I'd love to see it completed too.  And I think I will. Someday.

But for now, I'm back to powder coating my steam engine parts!

I had a short shop time this weekend, but I got another batch of parts powder coated.  Black this time (as everything going forward will be…)

I set up the powder coating station for black parts, cleaned everything, hung them up for spraying.  To make things go quicker, I used a piece of light gauge wire to connect all my hanging parts.  This meant I could actually coat multiple pieces at a time without having to move the grounding clip for each one.  Seemed to work pretty well.
(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/020d-PowderCoating-1-DSC_5957.jpg)

While that batch was baking, I worked on masking off all the other parts.
(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/020d-PowderCoating-2-DSC_5961.jpg)

Turns out masking takes WAY longer than baking.  Who knew?

Here’s the morning’s batch out of the oven and after they’ve cooled down.  Look pretty good!
(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/020d-PowderCoating-3-DSC_5962.jpg)

And you can still see the numbers I stamped on them even after the powder coat.  I was worried that it might obscure the numbers, but not so!
(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/020d-PowderCoating-4-DSC_5967.jpg)

Turns out I found a couple of edges that I must have brushed or bumped while putting things in the oven. I’ll have to re-coat those. But for the most part, everything looks good to go!  I’m going to have to learn to be more careful in my parts handling before the powder is baked.

Thanks for taking a look,
Kim
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Kim on July 28, 2019, 04:49:29 PM
I really want to get past this powder coating step – I’m feeling a little like I regressed since I had it all painted before.  I just wasn’t pleased with the paint. I’m QUITE pleased with how the powder coating is working out.  It seems much more durable.  I think I’m really going to love it!

However, even though I’d hoped to make big strides this week, I actually ended up spending most of my shop time on infrastructure projects.  I wanted to add another airline so that I didn’t have to keep switching between my blowgun and the powder coating gun. The worst of that was having to adjust the air pressure every time – for powder coating you only want 7-8 psi.  For the blowgun, while it’s not that specific, I need a lot more pressure than that for it to have the effect I’m looking for (i.e. blow the chips away!)  Not so convenient.

Anyway, sounded easy. I picked up an air hose and a manifold and was just going to plug them in.  But I got it all plugged in and could hear I had a leak. I could feel it leaking from around the manifold, so I thought it was with the connection (I’ve had bad luck with my pile of Harbor Freight quick connects – they tend to leak.  So, I got some from Home Depot. I got some fancy aluminum connectors that feel nice and solid, and are very light!)

Anyway, I spent a couple of hours trying to find the leak.  In the end, I found it was one of the outputs on the new manifold – not the connector!  Go figure!  Anyway, I put some Teflon tape on the connector and tightened it up – no more leak!  Just wish it didn’t take so long for me to figure it out.

Anyway, back to the main project.  With my remaining time, I powder coated another batch of parts. This time it went very well.  The masking, of course, took the most time.

There was one issue – I decided to powder coat the axle black just to keep it from rusting.  But there’s no hole to put a wire through for hanging. So I used tape on the end and hung the wire with that.  However, while in the oven, I heard a loud bang and looked around the shop to see what had fallen over!  Turns out one of the axles slipped out of the tape.  So, it finished up the baking process laying on the floor of the oven.  It didn’t turn out too bad, but it did leave a little flat spot on the axle.  Not sure if I will do anything about it or not.

Anyway, here’s the fruit of my labors today:
(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/020e-PowderCoating-1-DSC_5973.jpg)

And now, looking at this picture, I see a weird raised lump around the edge of those square blocks in the upper left.  I don’t remember seeing those before, so it may be more subtle than it looks.  I’ll have to check on that.  Maybe I got the powder on those parts just a little too thick?

Ah well. Still learning the more subtle side of this powder coating gig.

I am learning though.  I can REALY recognize the difference now if I’m not getting a good ground.  One time I forgot to hook it up and I could tell immediately!  Which is better than a few weeks ago for sure :)

Thanks for taking a look,
Kim
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Ye-Ole Steam Dude on July 28, 2019, 04:56:23 PM
Hello Kim,

The extra added work you are doing will surely pay dividends in the long haul. However sometimes in life the shortest distance between two points is not ALWAYS the shortest.... :cussing:

Have a great day,
Thomas
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: crueby on July 28, 2019, 06:11:17 PM
For the axles, could they have been suspended from two hooks rather than taping? I think I have seen parts done like that on car shows on TV. The Powder coating looks great, on my tool list!
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Kim on July 28, 2019, 06:26:38 PM
Thanks Thomas!

Chris, I considered that, and it may have been better.  But the reason I went with the single hook is that it makes the part easier to turn it while powder coating.  Having two hooks makes it a big process to rotate.  But I'm going to have to figure that out for some of the bigger upcoming parts!
Kim
Kim
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Dave Otto on July 28, 2019, 06:30:38 PM
Another option for round parts like that would be to turn up a shaft collar that could be attached to the end of the shaft ( either set screw or clamp type) and have a provision to attach the ground wire; then mask it off.
Parts look great Kim!


Dave
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Kim on July 29, 2019, 02:19:18 AM
That's an interesting thought, Dave.  There's a lot to this powder coating thing that I've never considered before!  (not surprising, since this is my first exposure to it :)).

Kim
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: kvom on July 29, 2019, 03:53:38 AM
I use a CO2 tank for powder vs. an air line.  It's very easy to get low pressure flow, and the same tank can be used for air brushing.  No water in the line is a plus.
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Kim on July 29, 2019, 05:23:22 AM
That's interesting - C02, eh? How expensive is it to keep that filled?  Do you find it lasts a long time or do you get it filled frequently?  That does seem like a clever idea!

Kim
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: kvom on July 29, 2019, 12:29:11 PM
20 pound tank costs about $18 to refill.  For purposes of powder coating models it would likely last for years.

I got it originally for inflating offroad tires.
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: b.lindsey on July 29, 2019, 02:51:40 PM
Kirk, did you have to buy the tank initially? I assume it need some sort of regulator as well similar to welding tanks. Interesting idea though for sure.

Bill
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: b.lindsey on July 29, 2019, 02:58:08 PM
Kim, those look great. Hindsight is 20/20 of course but a cradle made out of aluminum bored to accept the bare ends of the shafts with just enough exposed to turn them might have worked also. You could ground the cradle and even transport the powder coated shafts to the over while still in it. Maybe too much trouble for just the four shafts however. I am really enjoying your work on the powder coating though, need to get back to doing more of it here. I keep finding things I now want to redo in powder as over the years paint has chipped off, etc.

Bill
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: kvom on July 30, 2019, 12:02:09 AM
These are common in the offroading community, and one can buy complete setups.  The guy who sold me this one 15 years ago married a soda tank to a regulator and a hose.  I think I paid about $120 for the setup.
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Steamer5 on July 30, 2019, 04:05:58 AM
Hi Kim,
 That’s coming on nicely! Loving the powder coat tutorials.
To help find leaks on air fittings in the future, if you don’t already know, a little dishwashing liquid in some water......bubbles & you’ve got a leak, makes life a whole lot easier!

Cheers Kerrin
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Kim on July 30, 2019, 05:50:33 AM
Thanks for the additional info on the CO2 Kvom.

Hi Bill, yes, lots of ways to do this.  I just have to start thinking a little differently for the powder coating.

Hi Kerrin, Thanks for the tip on the leak finder!  Yeah, the way I finally found the leak was to submerge the whole thing in a bucket of water.  It worked!  Your way would have been a lot easier though :)

Kim
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Kim on August 04, 2019, 05:43:31 PM
Having resolved my shop infrastructure problem with the air system last week, THIS week, I was able to make real progress!  That, and I’d already had most of the parts masked and prepped – which helped a LOT!

I coated and baked 5-6 oven’s worth of parts this week!  Here’s one batch, just before being removed after their 20-minute bake at 350o.
(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/020f-PowderCoating-1-DSC_5979.jpg)

There were a few parts I decided to re-do a little.  The worst was the axle that slipped out of his tape.  Here’s the before shot.  This isn’t exactly how it looked coming out of the oven.  This is after some sanding to clean up the flattened spot in the paint.  The upper axle is a good one, the lower one is the one that fell (hopefully you can tell :))
(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/020f-PowderCoating-3-DSC_5977.jpg)

My first idea was just to reheat the part thinking that the paint would re-flow.  Well, that didn’t work.  So I tried it again with a very fine dusting of powder.  It came out passable, especially for a part that will be underneath and not seen.  Again, the axle I was repairing is the lower one.
(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/020f-PowderCoating-4-DSC_5982.jpg)

For later repair jobs, I removed more paint and sprayed more powder on them, and that worked better.  I’m sure the best thing would be to completely strip the paint off and start over.  But I didn’t do that.  And they all look pretty good to me!

Here’s the full family shot before re-assembly.
(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/020f-PowderCoating-2-DSC_5981.jpg)

Next job is moving on to the actual tank, starting with the floor. I’m excited to get to this next phase now!
Kim
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: b.lindsey on August 04, 2019, 06:05:30 PM
Those look fantastic Kim. I think you are now the MEM powder coating guru, and your great pics and descriptions will surely help others getting into this area  :NotWorthy:

Bill
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Dave Otto on August 04, 2019, 06:46:09 PM
Nice looking family shot Kim!
It appears that you have the powder coating process nailed down pretty well.

Dave
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: mike mott on August 04, 2019, 06:55:39 PM
Hi Kim, I am curious about the differences between the painted parts and now the same parts have been stripped and powder coated. Is the powder coating that much better than an enamel finish? It also appears to a more complicated process.

Mike   
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Kim on August 05, 2019, 03:31:08 AM
Thanks Bill and Dave,
I've certainly been learning a lot, and I'm WAY better than a few weeks ago.  But guru?  more like second level neophyte, I'd think  ;D
But thank you,
Kim
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Kim on August 05, 2019, 03:47:18 AM
Hi Kim, I am curious about the differences between the painted parts and now the same parts have been stripped and powder coated. Is the powder coating that much better than an enamel finish? It also appears to a more complicated process.

Mike

Hi Mike,
I'm not enough of a paint expert to make any kind of blanket statements about what's better or worse.  I'm sure there are great enamel paints - like stuff they use on cars that has to be baked on or something?  that's pretty good stuff.  But I can tell you the rattle can spray paint I've been using just doesn't hold up that well.  I've been using Rust-oleum, but I've used other stuff too (Krylon, etc.) and none of it adheres that well, with our without primer.  The powder coating really adheres well!  Like, when the screwdriver slips off the head of the screw and you ding the paint - that happened frequently when using the spray paint.  But with this stuff, it doesn't really phase it.  The paint adheres very well.

On my test piece I took an exacto knife and scratched around on it. While you could see the marks (if you pressed hard enough) it didn't scratch all the way through to the metal.  Yes, you can keep scratching and cutting and get to the metal.  but you have to work at it.  It has way better adhesion that anything I ever got from a rattle can.

As for ease of application - yeah, the powder coating has some steps to it, and does make a bit of a mess.  But really, so does spray painting. We're just used to it.  And the best part for me is that I don't have to wait x-hours and re-coat (often 3-4 times). And then wait 24-48 hours while the paint dries.  The powder coating goes quite fast.  Spraying the powder on doesn't take that long, and the whole curing process takes about 30-35 minutes.  You bake it at 450oF till the part gets up to temperature and the powder starts to flow (about 10 min I've found with most of these smaller parts, maybe 15 or 20 with the bigger thicker parts), then a 20 min bake at 350oF to finish curing the paint.  After that, you just let them cool, take the masking off, and they are good to go!

I'm getting better and NOT having to re-do parts.  Most of the problems tend to be as I'm moving them from the powder coating both onto the rack.  I have to be careful not to brush one of the other parts with the back of my hand, or the side of my thumb or something.  That will knock all the powder off in that one spot. But I've done a few touch-ups by applying a little powder and re-baking.  Again, not that different from touching up a spray job - other than it takes FAR less time for the pain to dry.

So, yeah, there's some process involved. But right now, at this point, I am finding it WAY better (and more fun) than standard paint.  But I do reserve the right to change my mind as time goes on :)

Thanks,
Kim
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Kim on August 11, 2019, 04:33:00 PM
With all parts powder coated, today I reassembled the Tender frame and trucks.
(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/021a-TankFloor-1-DSC_5984.jpg)

(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/021a-TankFloor-2-DSC_5988.jpg)

I’m really pleased with the powder coating! 
Kim
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Kim on August 11, 2019, 04:37:58 PM
Chapter 5.1 – Tank Floor

I still had some shop time so started on the Tank Floor.  Kozo specifies brass for this, as he does for everything.  I’ve chosen to use less expensive materials for my build.  Since the tank will be exposed to water, I opted for 304 stainless steel sheet for the base.  I couldn’t find 3/32”, so went with 0.09”  (which is mighty close to 3/32” (3/32=0.093)). This cost about half what the brass did.  Seemed like a good trade to me.

But cutting a piece of stainless that large has proven to be a problem for me.  I went to cut it on my 4x6 horizontal bandsaw, placed in vertical mode.  Unfortunately, there’s on 4” of throat depth and I need about 6”.  So it doesn’t matter which way I do it, I can’t get the piece through.

I cut several inches in on each side, as far as I could. Then I moved to my scroll saw with a metal blade.  But that just doesn’t seem to cut the stainless AT ALL.  I tried various speeds and pressures but just can’t get it to make a dent in the stainless.

Then I moved to my wood bandsaw and tried it.  That took out another inch or so, but it was scary -lots of sparks and smoke - it got really hot and stopped making any progress after about 1".  I’m afraid it was hardening the area around the cut, which is making it harder to cut and will make it hard to work later.

So here’s where I am:
(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/021a-TankFloor-3-DSC_5990.jpg)

You can see the burn marks along the last inch on this cut. That’s what I did on the wood band saw.  For one thing, I don’t have a real metal cutting blade for it.  For another, it just moves the blade way too fast, and I think that’s the main problem. Probably destroyed that blade  :-\
(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/021a-TankFloor-4-DSC_5993.jpg)

And my last attempt, with my hacksaw.  I know this won’t work.  Just don’t have the throat dept, even if I turn the blade 90 degrees, still not enough throat depth.
(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/021a-TankFloor-5-DSC_5994.jpg)

I should probably get a deep throat hacksaw if there is such a thing.

But for now, I’ll probably just try chain drilling and mill between the holes.  I can’t come up with any other way to cut this chunk out of the plate stock.

That’ll be for another day though.
Kim
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: kvom on August 11, 2019, 04:41:39 PM
Happy to see those brass slotted screws were just temporary.   :pinkelephant:

A floor mounted vertical bandsaw is really a necessity for metalwork.  You still have throat limitations on really large pieces, but they're a really useful piece of equipment.

I painted the Joy engine with automotive enamel and an airbrush, then the Muncaster with powder.  Both do a much better job than rattle can paint.  The advantage of powder is elimination of drips as well as hardness.
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Ye-Ole Steam Dude on August 11, 2019, 05:13:39 PM
With all parts powder coated, today I reassembled the Tender frame and trucks.
(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/021a-TankFloor-1-DSC_5984.jpg)

(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/021a-TankFloor-2-DSC_5988.jpg)

I’m really pleased with the powder coating! 
Kim

Hello Kim,

Really looks good reassembled.

Have a great day,
Thomas
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Dave Otto on August 11, 2019, 05:18:02 PM
Hi Kim

The tender frame looks great!

304 SS in any form is not much fun to work with, as you are finding out. If you can get some bi-metal saber saw blade and go slow that will probably be your best bet. You are also going to find that drilling it isn't much easier that cutting it; but with good quality bits and proper speeds it can be done. I deal with it at work but we have the proper tools (Power Shear, NC Punch and Brake), which makes it not too bad.

Not sure how the tank is assembled or sealed but maybe a different material choice could make your life easier; galvanized steel maybe? With proper tinning it can be soldered and is much easier to cut and bend. That is what I used to make the water tank for the Pacific Engine.

Dave
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: kvom on August 11, 2019, 06:13:12 PM
You might want to use 303SS instead.
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Dave Otto on August 11, 2019, 06:24:20 PM
You might want to use 303SS instead.

I'm not sure if 303 is available in sheet form?

Dave
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: b.lindsey on August 11, 2019, 06:49:46 PM
Wow, quite an update Kim, and the tender frame looks great. It's fun too when big brown delivers lots of new material and other goodies !!

Bill
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Kim on August 11, 2019, 10:11:56 PM
Thanks, Thomas, Dave, KVOM, and Bill,
Really appreciate the comments and recommendations.

Yes, to what Dave said - I was unable to find 303 in sheet.  SS sheet only came in 304.  I'm hoping this wasn't a total mistake.  We'll see.  I do have to drill and tap it, but no soldering required.  The tank will be screwed together using a sealant between the sides and the floor of the tank (Locktite Gasket Eliminator).

If I have too much trouble with this chunk of stainless I guess I can always go back and purchase brass.  Or try to find something like your describing Dave, some kind of galvanized steel.

We'll see... It says "Easily machinable"  but it also says it work hardens easily! I'm pretty sure that's what I've done here.

Wonder how you can anneal it?  Heat it and let it cool slowly?  Or do you heat and cool quickly?  Or does it not matter, as with brass?
Thanks,
Kim
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Dave Otto on August 11, 2019, 10:45:41 PM
Before you try to anneal it which may warp it beyond use. Pick up some high quality bi-metal saber saw blades and give them a try; keep the speed down and go slow. You may also have some luck with a silicon carbide grit blade (for cutting tile) until you get through the work hardened spot. Do you have a variable speed saw?

Dave
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: mike mott on August 11, 2019, 11:40:20 PM
Wow!! Kim the assembled chassis does look great.

Mike
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: cnr6400 on August 11, 2019, 11:57:55 PM
Chassis looks great Kim!  :ThumbsUp: :ThumbsUp: :ThumbsUp: :popcorn: :popcorn: :popcorn: 
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Kim on August 12, 2019, 04:52:49 AM
Thanks Mike and Cnr!

I'm really pleased with how the paint job turned out :)

Kim
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Kim on August 12, 2019, 05:26:24 AM
Dave!  You were absolutely spot on!

When you said saber saw, I thought, I have one of those!  A variable speed one, with a few (admittedly random) metal cutting blades.  So this afternoon I gave it a try.  Sure enough, it worked.  It was slow going – took me 30 minutes to complete the last 2 inches of the short side, but it was working.

I started down the long side and got another inch or so:
(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/021b-TankFloor-1-DSC_5996.jpg)

But the motor was getting hot, and it was starting to smell.  I was afraid I’d burn out the motor.  I think running it at the slow speed in metal was really pushing its limits.  The motor started to sound funny smell was getting worse. So I stopped.  I tried a fresh (not necessarily sharp) blade but that didn’t help.

Then, it hit me – I have one of those reciprocating saws – its quite powerful.  And I have a set of bi-metal blades for it!  THIS is what you were talking about, wasn’t it Dave:
(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/021b-TankFloor-2-DSC_5998.jpg)

Now THAT puppy worked wonders.  Where it took me 45 minutes to do a few inches with the little variable speed saber saw, It only took a couple of minutes to cut the remaining 9-10 inches of the long side using the reciprocating saw!  I used a slow speed, but it was much more powerful and the blade was better.  It just cut right through that stainless.
(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/021b-TankFloor-3-DSC_6000.jpg)

I filed the sharp burrs off the newly cut edge and set it on the frame and my heart sank… It’s like 3/8” too short!  And I was so careful to measure multiple times.  And I even left 1/8” extra for cleaning up the edges! :o
(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/021b-TankFloor-4-DSC_6005.jpg)

Then I looked back at the drawing, and thankfully, it shows that the tank floor stops well before the end of the frame.  Apparently, it just overlaps the edge of the rear sill.  So, I’m OK after all!  Whew!  :cartwheel:
(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/021b-TankFloor-5-DSC_6003.jpg)

Next challenge will be figuring out how to hold this large plate on the mill while I square up all the edges. But I think that's a tractable problem.  I've got a few ideas for that! :)

Thanks for the great suggestion, Dave!  It worked like a charm!
Kim
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Kim on August 12, 2019, 05:36:18 AM
Happy to see those brass slotted screws were just temporary.   :pinkelephant:

A floor mounted vertical bandsaw is really a necessity for metalwork.  You still have throat limitations on really large pieces, but they're a really useful piece of equipment.

I painted the Joy engine with automotive enamel and an airbrush, then the Muncaster with powder.  Both do a much better job than rattle can paint.  The advantage of powder is elimination of drips as well as hardness.

Hey Kvom,
Sorry, I missed your earlier reply here!

Hmm... I actually still have the slotted brass screws in these pictures.  That's what holds the trucks together.  Do we not like the brass screws?  Do they need to be black?  Does it look overly blingy with the shiny brass showing?  I kinda thought it looked pretty, but maybe that's just wrong.  I'm open to input from people smarter than me in the ways of locos.

As for the bandsaw - yes, I'd love to have a fixed vertical bandsaw for metal.  I've considered converting my wood bandsaw, but that's a 'someday' project.

Thanks for your input on my build.  If I didn't have helpful input from you guys, my work would not get better!
Kim
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: kvom on August 12, 2019, 05:43:01 PM
I use model scale screws and nuts myself.  You won't find brass screws on a locomotive.  That said, it's a matter of preference.

Confession:  I used some socket head screws on my Kozo.
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: b.lindsey on August 12, 2019, 10:41:39 PM
I agree...it's a matter of what suits your eye. I think the brass adds a nice bit of contrast to the black and red, but that's just me. What did Kozo use?

Bill
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Kim on August 13, 2019, 05:47:26 PM
Yeah, I'm trying to be kinda prototypical, but I'm also willing to go a little off the full black to have a little bling.  I liked Kozo's red wheels, and bright brass in various places.

As for bras round head screws here - I'm not sure.  He clearly calls for Rd Head screws, and everything is brass.  But it's hard to tell from his pictures.  I thought he left them bright.  But upon further investigation, that may not be the case.  It's kinda looking more black to me now.  The only color picture I have of Kozo's Pennsy is the slip cover on the book. Everything else is black and white.

I'm going to postpone a decision here and leave them brass for now.  I always have the option of blackening them up later on.

I'm very open to input here, so don't hold back.  I promise to do what I want to in the end, regardless. :naughty:  But I do believe I come to a better decision having other's input. I appreciate it more than you know!

Thank you!
Kim
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Kim on August 24, 2019, 10:57:30 PM
I've been out camping with my family, so haven't had a lot of time to play in the shop.  But today I made some incremental progress on the Tank Floor.

I spent about half the time creating the setup.  I had to do a lot of work to make sure my work envelope was big enough for the floor. First off, I had to move the ram head then re-tram.  No small task in itself.  Even then, I figured I’d have to do one side, then the other, re-calibrating the part for each long side.  But in the end, I was able to use a 3/8” carbide mill all around the edge without moving the part.  I JUST squeaked by – had to remove the chip cover on my X-DRO which gave me an extra half-inch on the Y-axis.  And I also defeated the stops on both axes which gave me a little more space too.  But it worked :)

After all that, I finally mounted the part on the mill and dialed in as parallel as I could.
(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/021c-TankFloor-1-DSC_6009.jpg)

I cleaned up the top edge (this was one of the rough sawn edges) then did the left edge (also, a rough sawn edge).  To do the short edges I had to play clamp hop-scotch.  Milled up to one, took it off, then milled to the next one, put the first one back on and took the 2nd one-off, then completed the side.  This is just after completing the edge with one of the clamps removed.
(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/021c-TankFloor-3-DSC_6016.jpg)

After completing the right side, I then moved to the bottom edge.  This one was easier because I didn’t have to move the clamps. But it took a long time (like the top) because it was a long cut!  This is an action shot.  I don’t take many action shots, but I had so much time during this cut I went for it!
(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/021c-TankFloor-4-DSC_6018.jpg)

And here’s the floor square and cut to size.  This took me a long time!
(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/021c-TankFloor-5-DSC_6028.jpg)

I plan to leave it mounted on the mill table in order to drill the multitude of holes required:
(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/021c-TankFloor-6-DSC_6029.jpg)

While I considered waiting and drilling when I have the mating part, I’ve found that using the DRO, with the same spacing between holes on each part, the parts fit together quite well.  And if I wait, I just have to do it then.  I’ll check the spacing on a few (where it connects to the frame) but for the bulk of them, I’ll just drill where the plans show.  I will verify on the parts I still have to create yet when they are made.

Thanks for taking a look!
Kim
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: b.lindsey on August 25, 2019, 12:39:59 AM
Nice work on that Kim!! At almost 16" that's a sizeable sheet of stock.

Bill
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Roger B on August 31, 2019, 07:47:15 AM
Just catching up again on here. The truck assembly looks great  :praise2:  :praise2: I'm glad you finally beat that piece of stainless sheet  :ThumbsUp:  :ThumbsUp:  :wine1:
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Kim on September 01, 2019, 06:36:53 AM
Thanks, Bill and Roger!

Continuing with the tank floor, I had a whole bunch of holes to drill.

I started by blueing the sheet and marking the locations of all the holes.  I did this while it was in place on the mill.  I didn’t want to have to square it up again!

I also did the calculations so I could use the DRO. I find that doing it both ways really helps prevent mistakes.  And in fact, it did today!  There were two or three times where I was off by a digit in locating a hole and having laid out the locations saved me.  And in one case I had actually calculated the coordinates incorrectly!  Yikes!  But my redundant method caught my mistake. So it was worth the extra effort!

I circled each of the cross points to make them easier to see.  Make sure I got all my holes before I took off all the clamps.  You can see I had to take turn removing hold downs so I could get to the holes under them.
(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/021d-TankFloor-1-DSC_6035.jpg)

A few of the holes needed to be threaded…
(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/021d-TankFloor-2-DSC_6038.jpg)

And two were reamed to 5/16”.  I believe these will be for the water feed lines– one from the hand pump, and the other a feed line to the axle pump.
(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/021d-TankFloor-3-DSC_6040.jpg)

After all the holes were drilled, I flipped the part over and made an 82o countersink.  All the holes that needed this, I circled in red.
(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/021d-TankFloor-4-DSC_6041.jpg)

When I completed that exercise, I cleaned up the part and mounted it on the tender frame.  The only mistake was that I countersunk two holes on the wrong side.  So those got countersunk on BOTH sides :)  Not perfect, but nobody will see it!
(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/021d-TankFloor-5-DSC_6044.jpg)

(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/021d-TankFloor-6-DSC_6047.jpg)

Next, I get to start on the curved sides.  I’m excited about starting this!

Kim
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: b.lindsey on September 01, 2019, 01:02:29 PM
That's a LOT of holes Kim. Happy it all turned out well though!!  I am also looking forward to the curved sides but even now its looking great!!

Bill
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Kim on September 02, 2019, 04:56:23 PM
Thanks Bill,
I'm off to have some shop time today! Got to love those 3 day weekends - at least those of us who still work for a living!  :D
Kim
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: b.lindsey on September 02, 2019, 06:53:39 PM
Yeah I remember those three day weekends. Much better now that everyday is Saturday  :LittleDevil:

Bill
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: kvom on September 02, 2019, 07:03:07 PM
Holey base plate Batman!   :o
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Kim on September 03, 2019, 05:41:25 AM
Holey base plate Batman!   :o

 :lolb:
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Kim on September 03, 2019, 06:07:20 AM
Chapter 5.2 – Side Plates

Here’s how I started today:
(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/022a-SidePlates-1-DSC_6052.jpg)
This isn’t REALLY wood - the discerning reader will quickly realize that this is a former for the tender sides! I had some maple from a project many years back and thought I’d use that. 

Laid out the shape of the former.  This will be both left and right sides, formed together, then cut in half in the next step.
(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/022a-SidePlates-2-DSC_6054.jpg)

Then I cut the angled edges (sorry, no pic) and rounded the corners on a disk sander that needs a new disk.  But I didn’t have one, so as can be seen in the lower left of the picture, it was more of burning the wood than sanding it round :)
(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/022a-SidePlates-3-DSC_6058.jpg)

Now I’ve set up my router table with a 1/4” round-over bit to round over all the edges.
(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/022a-SidePlates-4-DSC_6056.jpg)

And here’s the completed former:
(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/022a-SidePlates-5-DSC_6062.jpg)

Following the same process, I made a top-side clamping board. I just used a piece of plywood for this.  No rounded edges on this one.
(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/022a-SidePlates-6-DSC_6066.jpg)

Finally, I got out the metal!  I cut a chunk of 0.040” copper plate to about the right size, blued it up and laid out the pattern.
(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/022a-SidePlates-7-DSC_6069.jpg)

Cut it out using the scroll saw:
(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/022a-SidePlates-8-DSC_6074.jpg)

And here we are; all the pieces to shape the sides!
(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/022a-SidePlates-9-DSC_6079.jpg)
And that will have to wait till next time!
 
Thanks for taking a look!
Kim
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Admiral_dk on September 03, 2019, 11:21:43 AM
Nice progress Kim - looks like you are busy making parts  :cheers:   :popcorn:
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: mike mott on September 16, 2019, 05:01:32 PM
Nice Progress Kim, I smiled when I read about the countersunk holes on the wrong side, I have done that myself a few times, so I know now that I am not the only one.

good looking work on the former, the tricky part is keeping the copper in the correct place as you do each annealing, I wonder if putting in a couple of tiny holes along the centreline where the sheet gets cut would help in keeping it aligned properly Kozo just shows a single clamp in his book, which is probably enough once it is back in the big bench vice. I have found that multiple annealings are a little fiddly to realign after each one.

mike   
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Kim on September 16, 2019, 09:40:45 PM
Really good thought Mike!
I've wondered about that too, figured I'd just line it up as best as I could on the center line after each annealing. But I like your idea way better!

Luckily (?) I've not started this yet, so can still do it the right way.  I've got a daughter getting married in a few weeks and had family in town for the bridal shower this week.  This is a wonderful thing but the side effect is that there won't be a lot of progress on the model engineering front for a while. :)

Kim
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: b.lindsey on September 17, 2019, 01:00:30 PM
Congratulations on the upcoming wedding Kim. Enjoy the time with family and your daughter!!

Bill
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Kim on September 18, 2019, 06:43:38 AM
Thanks Bill!  ;D
Kim
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Kim on September 28, 2019, 11:33:00 PM
Got a little time in the shop today.  It's been a while!

After my last update, I was just about to form the sides of the tender.  The left and right sides are formed together as a single unit.  I’d just made the forms and my next step was to start hammering away. But Mike made the suggestion to put some registration pins along the cut line so that it would be easier to get the part back in the form in the correct place after each annealing.  Great idea! thought, I. :)

So I did.  Here you can see the three little brads I used for registration pins:
(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/022b-SidePlates-1-DSC_6081.jpg)

With that done, I assembled the sandwich former and started pounding away.  Here’s the first round of forming.  Pretty cool!
(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/022b-SidePlates-2-DSC_6088.jpg)

After an anneal, here’s the second round.
(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/022b-SidePlates-3-DSC_6090.jpg)

Third round:
(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/022b-SidePlates-4-DSC_6092.jpg)

And skipping a few, this is after the final round of annealing.  I think I did 6 rounds of annealing.  The last several were only working on the four tight corners.
(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/022b-SidePlates-5-DSC_6096.jpg)

You can see on this one corner I apparently got things a little too hot while annealing the copper.  It won’t be a problem; I’ll just file it down. But I do need to be careful there!
(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/022b-SidePlates-6-DSC_6100.jpg)

And here it is after being removed from the form.
(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/022b-SidePlates-7-DSC_6103.jpg)

And finally, cut in half.
(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/022b-SidePlates-8-DSC_6106.jpg)

Pretty exciting, eh? :)

Thanks for following along.
Kim
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: crueby on September 29, 2019, 12:41:45 AM
That came out great!  How did you cut the two halves apart without distorting the sheet? Looks like the alignment pins probably made a good center reference on the metal for cutting too.   :ThumbsUp:
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Ye-Ole Steam Dude on September 29, 2019, 01:05:20 AM
Hello Kim,

That is some beautiful work.

Have a great day,
Thomas
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: b.lindsey on September 29, 2019, 01:21:55 AM
Well done Kim!! Those came out great  :ThumbsUp:

Bill
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Kim on September 29, 2019, 05:55:31 AM
Thanks Chris, Thomas, and Bill!

Chris, I cut the halves apart using my 4x6 HF band saw in the vertical position.  It worked pretty well.  Since it was narrow on one end, I could get it almost 90% through the saw that way. Then I flipped it around the other way for the last couple of inches.

I had planned on using the scroll saw, like I used to cut the sheet out in the first place.  But the band saw is WAY faster.  And since it fit, why not use it, right? :)

Thanks,
Kim
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Admiral_dk on September 29, 2019, 07:58:36 PM
Nice progress Kim  :ThumbsUp:

Quote
Here you can see the three little brads I used for registration pins:

Oh man they are small  :o  How did you make them stay - are they soldered in place ?
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Dave Otto on September 29, 2019, 09:37:03 PM
Nice progress Kim.
The tender sides are looking great!

Dave
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Kim on September 30, 2019, 05:23:27 AM
Nice progress Kim  :ThumbsUp:

Quote
Here you can see the three little brads I used for registration pins:

Oh man they are small  :o  How did you make them stay - are they soldered in place ?

I used a interference fit into the bottom wood form.  For these brads a #55 drill makes a tight clearance fit, so I used a #53 in the maple form, cut the head off the brad and just pushed them into the hole.  It made a nice tight fit and they didn't come out during use.  I drilled #55 through the copper, and #57 in the top piece of plywood.

This way I could take the copper plate off, but the brads stayed in place in the form.

Probably should have show a picture of all three pieces of the sandwich to give you a better idea, but I wasn't that smart :)

Kim

A #55 drill is a tight clearance fit, and that's what I used through the copper.  The brads
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Kim on September 30, 2019, 05:24:40 AM
Thanks Dave!
Kim
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: fumopuc on September 30, 2019, 05:17:57 PM
Hi Kim, even if I am quiet, I am following along.
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Kim on October 13, 2019, 03:31:37 PM
Thank you, Achim!  I appreciate all the support :)


This is the first Saturday in some time that I’ve really gotten to play in my shop!  And I made some pretty good progress! Today I finished up the sides to the tender.  This involved cutting some edge support pieces for the sides and soldering them into place.  Kozo calls these “Side Corner Members.”

Before I get started on the update, I wanted to post one more shot of the formers I used for the sides.  I’d added some ‘registration post’ (i.e. little nails) to help align things between annealing. There were some questions about that so I took one more picture to show just the wood formers, without the copper side plate in the middle.  The brads are friction fit into one side of the former, and the other side just has clearance holes, as did the side plate that I was forming.  Hope this helps.
(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/023a-SideCornerMembers-01-DSC_6111.jpg)


In my last update, I’d just finished shaping the sides and cutting the one-piece the middle to make the left and right sides.  So, my next step was to clean up the cut and make sure the sides were of equal size.  I did that mainly on the 4x36 belt sander.  (This is a staged shot.  I generally don’t steady my hand on the belt while it's moving.  That would hurt!)
(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/023a-SideCornerMembers-02-DSC_6109.jpg)

Then I spent some time cleaning up the sides to get rid of the soot and heating discoloration.
(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/023a-SideCornerMembers-03-DSC_6118.jpg)


Chapter 5.3 – Side Corner Members

Next up was to make the Side Corner Members.  These are 5/16” square brass bars that will fit along the base of each side. They provide rigidity and a way to attach the sides to the base.

After cutting the two pieces, I clamped both of them in the mill and squared up the ends, getting them to the correct length.  I realize that isn’t ideal, to have the bars sticking out from the vise, but I wanted to be able to use the DRO to measure the length.  So I just took light cuts, very gently and it seemed to work out OK.
(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/023a-SideCornerMembers-04-DSC_6115.jpg)

Next, I rounded the ends to fit the inside contour of the sides. This is just a standard 1/4" round-over wood router bit. It worked fine on the brass.
(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/023a-SideCornerMembers-05-DSC_6123.jpg)

Then drilled the mounting holes in the corner pieces.  I did them both at the same time, for simplicity.
(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/023a-SideCornerMembers-06-DSC_6124.jpg)

And then tapped them 3-48.
(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/023a-SideCornerMembers-07-DSC_6130.jpg)

Rotated the corner pieces 90 degrees and drilled holes for some 1-72 screws. These will be used to hold the pieces to the side for soldering.
(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/023a-SideCornerMembers-08-DSC_6131.jpg)

I fit each corner piece to the corresponding side. Using clamps to hold the pieces together in the right place, I drilled through the 1-72 holes into the copper sides.
(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/023a-SideCornerMembers-09-DSC_6133.jpg)

Then I opened all those holes up to be a clearance fit for #1 screws.
(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/023a-SideCornerMembers-10-DSC_6135.jpg)

And finally, I tapped the holes in the side corner members.
(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/023a-SideCornerMembers-11-DSC_6140.jpg)

Now, I was ready to solder the sides pieces up.
I cleaned up the solder joint area and prepped it for soldering with flux and lengths of solder.  It parts held together with five 1-72 brass screws.  Now, this is soft solder.  The point of these joints is to make the tank sides watertight (and to hold the parts together of course :)).
(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/023a-SideCornerMembers-12-DSC_6141.jpg)

After soldering:
(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/023a-SideCornerMembers-13-DSC_6144.jpg)

And here are the two sides, soldered and cleaned up.  I couldn’t fit these large pieces into my pickling container :(.  I sloshed the pickling juice around on the parts, then washed them up with soap, and I guess I’m OK.  But there was no ‘soak’ like I usually do.  I’m going to have to find a larger container to use I guess…
(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/023a-SideCornerMembers-14-DSC_6146.jpg)

And finally, here’s a family shot with the sides mounted:
(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/023a-SideCornerMembers-15-DSC_6151.jpg)

(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/023a-SideCornerMembers-16-DSC_6153.jpg)

Thanks for looking in!
Kim
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Dave Otto on October 13, 2019, 04:40:40 PM
Nice work Kim!
It's starting to take shape now.

Dave
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Ye-Ole Steam Dude on October 13, 2019, 05:25:41 PM
Hello Kim,

That is some beautiful work, really nice.

Have a great day,
Thomas
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: crueby on October 13, 2019, 06:13:00 PM
Very nice - love the family shots!
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: mike mott on October 13, 2019, 07:55:13 PM
Kim that looks great  the family shot shows it all off well.

Mike
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Kim on October 13, 2019, 10:27:57 PM
Hi Dave, Thomas, Chris, and Mike!
Thanks for stopping by to take a look and thanks for the kind comment :)

It is pretty fun when it starts to look like something!  :cartwheel:
Kim
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: b.lindsey on October 14, 2019, 12:18:55 AM
Looking great Kim!! Nice to see you get some shop time and you made the most of it  :ThumbsUp:

Bill
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: cnr6400 on October 14, 2019, 04:39:21 AM
 :ThumbsUp: :ThumbsUp: :ThumbsUp: :popcorn: :popcorn: :popcorn:
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Kim on October 14, 2019, 05:37:19 AM
Thanks Bill and CNR!
Kim
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Steamer5 on October 14, 2019, 06:09:07 AM
Hi Kim,
 Nice work! Coming on nicely!

 :popcorn: :popcorn: :popcorn:

Cheers Kerrin
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Roger B on October 20, 2019, 09:19:14 AM
Excellent  :praise2:  :praise2: The wood router worked well on brass  :ThumbsUp:  :wine1:
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Kim on October 20, 2019, 02:21:02 PM
Thanks Kerrin and Roger,
Yeah, I've seen other people use router bits on their metal so I was optimistic that I'd have equally good success, and I did :)

Kim
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Kim on October 20, 2019, 03:33:42 PM
Chapter 5.4 – Bottom Horseshoe Member and Top Horseshoe Member

Today I worked on the Bottom Horseshoe Member. This is a support piece for the “U” shaped cut out in the front part of the tender. This U shaped cutout in the tender is where the coal would be piled to feed the firebox.
Here’s a picture showing all the pieces that make up this U-shaped section. Today’s focus is the Bottom Horseshoe Member (6), the Top Horseshoe Member (7) will be next, followed by the Verge Board (8) and the Vertical Sheet (9) which makes up the sides for the horseshoe shape.
(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/024a-BottomHorseshoeMember-10-20191020_065607.jpg)

The Bottom Horseshoe Member is an 11” piece of 1/4” square brass. After cutting and trimming to length, I made the specified cutouts for the corners.  These cutouts will be where the 90o bends will be.  Kozo gives exact lengths for these cutouts and they work out just right!
(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/024a-BottomHorseshoeMember-1-DSC_6159.jpg)

Next, I turned the part and drilled and tapped the #3-48 mounting holes.  I probably should have waited till the part was formed and then marked the spots for these from the base, but I chose not to.  Kozo’s plans are quite accurate and I had faith that the holes would fit.  And it's SO much easier to work on the piece when it is flat and straight than when its all bent up.  So I just went for it. Worst case I’d just have to do it again.
(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/024a-BottomHorseshoeMember-2-DSC_6162.jpg)

When I get to soldering the whole horseshoe together, I’ll need holes for the screws to hold things in place.  So I drilled them now. The mating holes in the other piece will be located from these, so it's OK to dill them before forming.
(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/024a-BottomHorseshoeMember-3-DSC_6164.jpg)

Here’s the part, all ready for bending.
(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/024a-BottomHorseshoeMember-4-DSC_6167.jpg)

Now, here’s the part where I learned a lot.

I started bending the corners.  I’m thinking – I wonder if I will need to anneal this.  Kozo didn’t say anything about that in the instructions.  Just as I’m thinking this, ‘snap’ the part broke in two.  And I had my answer. Yes, of course, I should have annealed it! :facepalm:

So, before I started over, I decided to try silver soldering the parts together.  And that actually seemed to work out OK.  Now, I wasn’t smart enough to take pictures of my mishap.  I was kind-a focused on working myself out of my stupidity and wasn’t thinking about pictures at the moment.  But here’s one of the repaired spot after silver soldering (and a little filing, cause I was a little too free with the solder) while bending.
(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/024a-BottomHorseshoeMember-5-DSC_6169.jpg)

And a wider shot of the bending process.  It took a couple of annealings to get the full 90o bends in place, but no more breakage!
(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/024a-BottomHorseshoeMember-6-DSC_6168.jpg)

And what’s cool, is you can see that the lengths where Kozo had you narrow the width of the brass – they bent nice and evenly. You get a nice even radius there.  That’s pretty cool!
(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/024a-BottomHorseshoeMember-7-DSC_6173.jpg)

Another closeup of the repair job I did:
(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/024a-BottomHorseshoeMember-8-DSC_6174.jpg)

And here it is fitted in place on the tender floor.  And yes, all the holes lined up, though it did take some adjusting of the shape.  That’s the other reason I put the mounting holes in earlier.  I knew the spacing for the holes would be correct because I used the DRO.  The question was the radius of the corners.  So, if I did the holes first, they would help me get the right radius.  Does that make sense?  It made sense to me anyway. :)
(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/024a-BottomHorseshoeMember-9-DSC_6177.JPG)

More pieces to go, but I think this one turned out pretty good!
Kim
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: crueby on October 20, 2019, 03:36:49 PM
Nice recovery!
 :popcorn: :popcorn: :popcorn:
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Kim on October 20, 2019, 03:59:17 PM
Thanks Chris!
It's always frustrating to 'learn' things, but that's what I love about hobbies.  I'm always learning something :)
Kim
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: b.lindsey on October 20, 2019, 07:52:59 PM
The fix worked out great Kim. Nice looking part and the patched area won't really be seen anyway. Nicely done.

Bill
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Kim on November 05, 2019, 06:31:01 PM
Next up is the Top Horseshoe Member.  This is just like the Bottom Horseshoe Member, but it's for the top part :)

This was made from another piece of 1/4" square brass, but quite a bit longer (about 17”).  The Top Horseshoe Member has two sets of curves, one set to make the horseshoe shape, and another set to make the long uprights to hold it at the top.  The cuts in this piece are symmetrical about the center, so I made the cut on one side, then flipped it around and did the same on the other side.  This is the cut used to help for the curve from upright to horseshoe.
(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/025a-TopHorseshoeMember-01-DSC_6181.jpg)

After doing the pair of cuts on a different side, I flipped the part to do a 0.040” cut for the Verge Board.  This one was the full length of the horseshoe.  But I only did the sides of this cut. The middle was suspended out over nothing so I decided to wait till I could remove the makeshift stop I’d put in place.  Then I would come back and finish off this cut.
(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/025a-TopHorseshoeMember-02-DSC_6185.jpg)

Next, I made a bunch of threaded holes (0-80 and 1-72) for holding the parts together during soldering.
(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/025a-TopHorseshoeMember-03-DSC_6189.jpg)

With that, all the work that needed the stop was complete. So I removed it and finished up the 0.040” deep cut mentioned earlier.
(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/025a-TopHorseshoeMember-04-DSC_6191.jpg)

Then it was off to the vice to do the bends. Here’s the first step of making the horseshoe.
(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/025a-TopHorseshoeMember-05-DSC_6192.jpg)

After a few annealing and bending sessions, I had this:
(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/025a-TopHorseshoeMember-06-DSC_6195.jpg)

I used the Bottom Horseshoe as a template for bending.
(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/025a-TopHorseshoeMember-07-DSC_6194.jpg)

Next, I went after the upright bends:
(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/025a-TopHorseshoeMember-08-DSC_6198.jpg)

A few more annealing rounds and it was all done:
(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/025a-TopHorseshoeMember-09-DSC_6206.JPG)

And that’s that for the Top Horseshoe Member.
Kim
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Kim on November 05, 2019, 06:34:36 PM
Chapter 5.5 – Verge Board

On to the Verge Board!
I’ll re-post the picture of the horseshoe assembly.  The Verge Board is labeled ( 8 ) here.
(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/024a-BottomHorseshoeMember-10-20191020_065607.jpg)

I carefully laid out the Verge Board pattern on some paper then used spray adhesive to attach it onto the 0.040” sheet brass. Using the bandsaw, I cut that chunk off the huge piece of brass that I have.  I got this brass sheet from a local place here that USED to sell offcuts and scrap pieces by the pound. They don’t anymore, which is too bad.  I used to get some great deals on metal there.  Guess it cost them too much to sell the offcuts.  Now they just recycle it. :(
(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/026a-VergeBoard-1-DSC_6210.jpg)

Using the scroll saw, I cut the shape out of the sheet.
(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/026a-VergeBoard-2-DSC_6212.jpg)

(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/026a-VergeBoard-3-DSC_6214.jpg)

After a little clean up on sander, I bent the tabs to 15o.
(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/026a-VergeBoard-4-DSC_6216.jpg)

Then I bent the 90o corners and fit it to the top horseshoe member.
(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/026a-VergeBoard-5-DSC_6223.jpg)

It's clear that I have some fitting to do here.  The end should fit inside the notch here. I have about 3/32” to remove off each end.
(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/026a-VergeBoard-6-DSC_6223.jpg)

Thanks for taking a look at my progress!
Kim
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: cnr6400 on November 05, 2019, 07:48:55 PM
 :ThumbsUp: :ThumbsUp: :ThumbsUp: :popcorn: :popcorn: :popcorn:
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: mike mott on November 05, 2019, 09:54:08 PM
Looks good Kim.

Mike
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Kim on November 06, 2019, 03:34:07 AM
Thanks Cnr and Mike! :)
Kim
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Kim on November 07, 2019, 01:48:20 AM
I left off fitting the Verge Board to the Top Horseshoe Member.

I started by drilling some holes to attach it firmly, so I could accurately mark the length.
(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/026b-VergeBoard-01-DSC_6224.jpg)

Here I’m putting a mark to indicate the length on each side.
(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/026b-VergeBoard-02-DSC_6227.jpg)

After filing & sanding to length, here it is, fitted in place:
(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/026b-VergeBoard-03-DSC_6230.jpg)

Now, I need to make the rim of the verge board. The rim is a strip that runs all around the verge board.  It is 1/8” wide, made from 1/16” brass sheet. The problem is that it’s a ‘little’ bigger than the verge board itself, but needs to fit flush with the edge.  So, I rolled the verge board around some and came up with this general shape.  I started to mark off the 1/8” width but then decided not to do that till I’d cut out the top profile, as you’ll see.
(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/026b-VergeBoard-04-DSC_6231.jpg)

I started by cutting out the shape on the band saw, leaving a bit around all edges.
(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/026b-VergeBoard-05-DSC_6235.jpg)

Then I shaped the top edge of one side on the disk sander, like so:
(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/026b-VergeBoard-06-DSC_6238.jpg)

And used a divider set at 1/8” to mark the width for the part I’d shaped.
(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/026b-VergeBoard-07-DSC_6241.jpg)

Then cut out the bottom edge using the scroll saw. It goes slower, but it gives me much better control over the cut.
(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/026b-VergeBoard-08-DSC_6242.jpg)

Next, I drilled and tapped some 1-72 holes, for solder holders.
(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/026b-VergeBoard-09-DSC_6244.jpg)

And, holding the rim in place, I transferred the holes to the verge board.
(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/026b-VergeBoard-10-DSC_6246.jpg)

Then drilled them with 1-72 clearance holes.
(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/026b-VergeBoard-11-DSC_6248.jpg)

After attaching the length that I had shaped, I formed the rim around the verge board and marked the rest of the shape up to the sharp bend at the end.
(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/026b-VergeBoard-12-DSC_6250.jpg)

After cutting and shaping up to that point, I held it in place with the existing screws and clamps:
(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/026b-VergeBoard-13-DSC_6252.jpg)

And marked that final piece.
(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/026b-VergeBoard-14-DSC_6253.jpg)

Here’s the final rim piece, shaping complete:
(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/026b-VergeBoard-15-DSC_6256.jpg)

And now, with the trial fit before soldering, I’m ready to go!  One thing I found in the trial fit is that one of my carefully marked holes didn’t line up :(  But it seemed to have a good connection even without that screw so I didn't bother with it and just left it in to fill the hole. (You can see that right at the lower bend in the rim.)
(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/026b-VergeBoard-16-DSC_6258.jpg)

After silver soldering the rim to the verge board:
(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/026b-VergeBoard-17-DSC_6261.jpg)

And finally, after a nice pickle bath and a lot of clean up and filing work to even everything out:
(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/026b-VergeBoard-18-DSC_626118-DSC_6265.JPG)

THAT was a lot of work for one little part!

Thanks for taking a look.
Kim

PS.  You might note that I've made way more progress in the last few days than I normally would.  That's because I got my daughter all married this weekend and now that everyone has left I still have a few days off.  So I just had to play out in the shop :)  How fun is that?!
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Flyboy Jim on November 07, 2019, 02:51:32 AM
Lots of work............but wonderful results. Well done Kim.

Jim
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Dave Otto on November 07, 2019, 03:06:37 AM
Beautiful work Kim!

Dave
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: mike mott on November 07, 2019, 04:20:38 AM
Very nice job on the edge piece Kim.

Mike
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Kim on November 07, 2019, 06:24:14 AM
Thanks for the kind comments, Jim, Dave, and Mike!
Kim
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Kim on November 17, 2019, 01:12:09 AM
Chapter 5.6 – Vertical Board

The next, and final part in this sub-assembly, is the Vertical Board.  It will tie the whole thing together.

I started by cutting a piece of 0.040” brass sheet from the parent stock to use for the Vertical Board.  Didn’t take a picture of me sawing.  You've seen that before.

As I was getting ready to bend the piece, I noticed that I’d messed up on the Top Horseshoe Member.  It was supposed to have the vertical bends with the cut-out portion facing down, that way the solid part of the bar would be there to support the sheet metal.  As can be seen in this photo, I bent it backwards. :(
(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/027a-VerticalBoard-0-DSC_6271.JPG)

I toyed with the idea of leaving it as it was but decided against it.  I did several rounds of annealing and bending to undo the bends, then did a few more rounds to bend it the other way.
(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/027a-VerticalBoard-01-DSC_6272.jpg)

And after that, I had to fiddle with the holes in the Verge Board to get things to fit again.  But in the end, I won:
(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/027a-VerticalBoard-02-DSC_6275.jpg)

Now, back to bending the Vertical Board.  Kozo shows an interesting little tool for bending that’s nothing more than a couple of bars clamped together to help bend the brass evenly.  I made one of those and gave it a shot:
(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/027a-VerticalBoard-03-DSC_6278.jpg)

Took a couple rounds of annealing:
(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/027a-VerticalBoard-04-DSC_6283.jpg)

And here’s what I ended up with.  Not such a perfect fit :(  There’s that nice gap along the upper right corner.  Now, it is supposed to be 0.040” away from that edge, but this is way too far!
(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/027a-VerticalBoard-05-DSC_6286.jpg)

So, I took an appropriately sized steel rod and stuck in my vice to use as an anvil.   And pounding around with that (using a soft hammer) I was able to re-arrange things to have a much better fit.
(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/027a-VerticalBoard-06-DSC_6291.jpg)

This is where I finished up last week.  I’d intended to get this posted, but after about midweek I decided to wait and just finish up the part before posting.
So today, I started by transferring the screw holes onto the vertical board and drilling them.  It's never that easy, of course, and I had to adjust the holes here and there to make everything line up.  But I got it done:
(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/027a-VerticalBoard-07-DSC_6293.jpg)

Then I did the same for the Bottom Horseshoe member:
(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/027a-VerticalBoard-08-DSC_6295.jpg)

Here is the whole assembly, cleaned and fluxed up ready for solder (soft solder, that is).
(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/027a-VerticalBoard-09-DSC_6303.jpg)

After soldering, pickling, and a quick wash-up, here’s how it looks:
(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/027a-VerticalBoard-10-DSC_6305.jpg)

The last step I did today was to file down the heads of the solder-holder screws.
(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/027a-VerticalBoard-11-DSC_6308.jpg)

I’ve still got a bit of work on the whole horseshoe assembly, so I didn’t finish it today.  But next week for sure!

Thanks for looking in.
Kim
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: crueby on November 17, 2019, 01:26:33 AM
Nice job finessing the sheet, and really impressive that you could rebend that rail, must have judged when to re anneal just right.


 :popcorn:
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Kim on November 17, 2019, 01:35:40 AM
Thanks, Chris,
Not sure I knew - I only went about 1/3 of the way then re-annealed. That's when it started to feel not quite as ready to bend.  I did a lot of rounds of annealing - seemed safer than pushing it!
Kim
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Jo on November 17, 2019, 08:05:35 AM
Does look good Kim, well done.  :popcorn:

Jo
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: b.lindsey on November 17, 2019, 01:10:18 PM
Amazing progress Kim. There is a LOT of work in these parts as you say but the results look great!!

Bill
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: mike mott on November 17, 2019, 03:08:23 PM
Nice rework there and the final result looks good.

Mike
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Kim on November 17, 2019, 05:57:32 PM
Thanks, Jo, Bill, and Mike,
Appreciate the comments!  :)
Kim
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Kim on November 24, 2019, 01:48:42 AM
Continuing on with the Horseshoe Assembly (the place where the coal sits before its shoveled into the boiler).

Next step was to file the vertical board flush with the bottom of the Bottom Horseshoe Bracket.
(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/027b-VerticalBoard-01-DSC_6311.jpg)

Here we are, all nice, flat, and flush!
(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/027b-VerticalBoard-02-DSC_6313.jpg)

Then I mounted the horseshoe assembly onto the floor of the tank.  All the holes lined up well, and I was thankful for that!  However, I discovered that one side didn’t line up the way it should have.  The edge circled in red should line up with the edge circled in blue.
(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/027b-VerticalBoard-03-DSC_6315a.jpg)

Here’s a shot straight on from the side that might show better what I mean.  The red arrows point at the edge on the horseshoe, in the back.  And the blue arrows point at the edge of the copper side. Those two edges should line up, but the inside edge (marked in red) is about 40-50 thou off.  Not sure why, but it is.
(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/027b-VerticalBoard-04-DSC_6319a.jpg)

So, I decided to cut the inner edge down a little to make it match.  I considered filing it, but that would have been hard for me to keep it straight, flat and uniform. So I decided to mill it down.  But to do that, I needed to make an appropriately sized wood spacer.  And to do that, I needed to use my table saw.  But before I could use my table saw, I needed to finally get around to cleaning it up.
As it turns out, a couple of months ago, our water heater went out.  And for some reason, they thought it was a good idea to put the house water heater in my shop!  Go figure!  (Well, sure, my shop is in the garage, but really, how inconsiderate!) So when our water heater went, it was leaking water all over the floor of the garage.  Nothing got seriously damaged, but in the hubbub, some wet items got sat on my table saw (since it was a nice, inviting flat surface).  A week later when I noticed, there was a nice layer of rust on the tabletop.
So, today, I took some oil and some steel wool and went to work.  Then I got smart and used a scotchbrite brush in my drill to speed the process up.  It worked pretty well. What you’re seeing on the table saw is the brown sludge that is created when the oil is mixed with the rust.  The table didn’t look THAT bad!  But after about an hour I had that cleaned up.
(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/027b-VerticalBoard-05-DSC_6322.jpg)

Here’s my setup for shaving down that edge on the horseshoe assembly.  You can see the piece of wood I cut to act  as a spacer in the open space between the sides of the horseshoe. The piece was clamped down well, but since it was so far from the support I took very shallow cuts. And I’m only cutting brass, so it worked out quite well.
(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/027b-VerticalBoard-06-DSC_6325.jpg)

Following that, I cut the inner wall, leaving 0.040” sticking up so it will mate up with the tank wall piece that will be coming next.
(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/027b-VerticalBoard-07-DSC_6330.jpg)

then, I filed the square corners round, leaving the same 0.040” flange around the edge.
(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/027b-VerticalBoard-08-DSC_6333.jpg)

And finally mounted the horseshoe assembly back in its place.  Things line up much better now!
(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/027b-VerticalBoard-09-DSC_6336.jpg)

(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/027b-VerticalBoard-10-DSC_6338.jpg)

(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/027b-VerticalBoard-11-DSC_6339.jpg)

So that’s it for the Horseshoe assembly.  Next up will be the front plates that cover the gap between the sides and the horseshoe assembly.

Thanks for checking in,
Kim
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Flyboy Jim on November 24, 2019, 03:02:23 AM
Nice result Kim.  :ThumbsUp:

Thanks for the nice "back story" on how you got this accomplished. One thing I've learned about model machining is that there are always a lot of "back stories" involved in the process of machining a part!  :shrug:

Jim
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Kim on November 24, 2019, 05:32:07 AM
Thanks Jim,
So true!  There's always a story that goes into every part.  And that's what I find so fascinating about this site is that I get to learn how others tackle making things.  Each part has its own challenges, and I learn so much from reading everyone else's posts!
Kim
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Roger B on November 24, 2019, 07:34:00 AM
That's some excellent fabrication  :praise2:  :praise2:  :wine1:
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: mike mott on November 24, 2019, 10:59:01 PM
Nice save on the fit.

Mike
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: cnr6400 on November 25, 2019, 12:02:37 AM
 :ThumbsUp: :ThumbsUp: :ThumbsUp: Great repair Kim! that one could have gotten very involved if it were off a few thou more.  :cheers:
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Kim on November 30, 2019, 12:53:00 PM
Thanks, Roger, Mike, and CNR!

Kim
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Kim on November 30, 2019, 01:01:27 PM
Chapter 5.7– Front Plates

The Front Plates cover the space between the sides of the tank and the horseshoe.  They start along the bottom front of the tank then curve over the top and cover about 3” back along the top of the tank.

These are made from 0.040” sheet brass. After cutting a couple of pieces from the sheet stock, I cleaned up the edges on the mill and took them to the correct width.
(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/028a-FrontPlates-1-DSC_6341.jpg)

The next thing was to shave off 0.040” along the section that would back up to the verge board.  I also cut out a notch for the rim on the verge.  I marked this off and cut the deeper notch on the scroll saw, then filed off the rest.
(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/028a-FrontPlates-2-DSC_6345.jpg)

This how the notch fits.  There will be one of these plates on each side of course.
(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/028a-FrontPlates-3-DSC_6349.jpg)

But, before we can bend them, I need to press mock rivet heads into the side of the plate.  So, I need to make a rivet head puncher.  Here’s what I turned out of W-1 for the punch.
(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/028a-FrontPlates-4-DSC_6352.jpg)

I then made an anvil with a 0.056” hole, as specified by the plans.  I hardened and tempered the punch and anvil, then fit the anvil into a base plate of aluminum that I could hold in my mill vice.  I took a piece of 5/8” square aluminum for a back fence to slide the material along.  The problem was that when I set the fence for the 5/64” distance from the edge (as specified by Kozo in the plans) my punch was too big to fit past the fence.
(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/028a-FrontPlates-5-DSC_6353.jpg)

I’d already hardened the punch, so taking that down more wasn’t an easy option.  The easiest thing to do was make a shorter fence.  So I found a length of 1/4" thick aluminum bar and used that.  No interference there!
(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/028a-FrontPlates-6-DSC_6356.jpg)

I tried punching some test rivets in a piece of scrap (I cut the notch in the wrong place on one plate and had to start over). The challenge here is going to be getting them spaced evenly, and punching them to a uniform depth. The four on the right look pretty good to me. The remaining ones on the left look a little too shallow though.  I need to push a little harder on those, I think.
(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/028a-FrontPlates-7-DSC_6357.jpg)

I’ll practice a little more before I ‘rivet’ all around the front plates.
Kim
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: mike mott on November 30, 2019, 03:26:20 PM
Kim,I found that the easiest way to get the rivets spaced evenly was to make the die underneath the double the diameter of the space + the diameter of the rivet when punched. it might take a couple of tries to get it just right but once set it is pretty consistent. Also I made the die depression to the depth of the head when punched.

Mike
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Kim on November 30, 2019, 05:32:57 PM
Thanks Mike!  That's a great idea.  I'll have to look at doing that.  Not sure how to know how deep to make the hole in the anvil. I'll have to give that a try.  But I can see how to calculate the diameter of the anvil :)

Kim
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: crueby on November 30, 2019, 06:45:41 PM
The way I had gotten the spacings even was to drill a second hole to the side of the one used to make the dimples, that way the previous dimple would have a place to register into, making the rivets an even distance apart.
 :popcorn: :popcorn: :popcorn:
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Kim on December 09, 2019, 02:41:36 AM
Well, if you recall back a few episodes (which I’m sure you don’t, so I’ll tell you) I shaved off a bit of one side of the horseshoe assembly to make it line up better.  Unfortunately, as I suspected, that was only a symptom of the real problem which I hadn’t yet noticed.

It seems that this whole unit is a little cockeyed somehow.  It sits flat, and all the front edges are perpendicular to the base, but the back edge isn’t right.  The backside is all catawampus.  You can see in this picture from above that even though the bottom is nice and square, the top edge has a jaunty angle.  It should, of course, be parallel to the bottom.
(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/029a-RevisitingTheHorseshoe-1-DSC_6366.jpg)

I could make up for it with other parts, but I think having the top of the verge board not be square to the rest of the tender will be very noticeable.  I think it will catch everyone's attention. And even if it doesn't, it will bother me.  I won’t be happy.  Plus it will make me care less about the remainder of the build. And I don’t want that.

I don’t know how to get it square at this point. And if I did, I think the ‘fix’ I made earlier will cause yet another problem.  I believe that the reason the front was sticking out, was because the back was whacked out like this.

So, I’ve decided to re-do the whole coal bin unit here. (or Horseshoe assemble as Kozo calls it).

I didn’t have any more 1/4" square brass bar. So while I was waiting for that to come in, I started cutting out the brass plate that will be needed.  The top one is for the ‘vertical board’ (the big piece that wraps around the inside of the horseshoe) and the lower one is the Verge Board (the slopy one that goes around the top of the horseshoe.
(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/029a-RevisitingTheHorseshoe-2-DSC_6369.jpg)

Well, this was last week’s update.

During the week my brass arrived.  So, yesterday I started on the lower horseshoe member.  I found a better way to hold it for milling.  And as usual, the 2nd time goes faster:
(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/029a-RevisitingTheHorseshoe-3-DSC_6378.jpg)

Here’s a picture of how I lined up the piece so it was parallel to the mill bed.  This works pretty well and is a fairly quick way to get it setup.  Not as fast as the vice, of course, but with such a long piece, the vice was problematic anyway.
(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/029a-RevisitingTheHorseshoe-4-DSC_6377.jpg)

Unfortunately, the last step of drilling and tapping the #3-48 mounting holes went terribly awry.  I had gotten some 2.3mm bits off amazon – like a dozen for $3.99 or something.  2.3mm is the recommended drill size to use with the #3-48 roll-form tap.  Unfortunately, the bit I had wasn’t cutting well.  So, I swapped it out.  It took me 3 bits to find one that was sharp enough to cut.  And after drilling the holes, I went to tap them, and the tap almost slides through the hole :(.  I checked the hole size.  2.3mm is about 0.090”.  These holes were over 0.100”!  These supposed 2.3mm drills make 2.5-2.6mm holes.  :(

These are trash bits.  I can’t even really use them for 0.10” bits because they barely cut anyway. And I’m just trying to cut brass!  This isn’t stainless or anything.  Very frustrating.
(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/029a-RevisitingTheHorseshoe-5-DSC_6381.jpg)

I’m never buying cheap drill bits again. It isn’t worth it.  Not only do they not work, they ruin the part you’ve put so much time and effort into!

Another lesson learned.  Again… (I think I learned this one already…)

Kim
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Steamer5 on December 09, 2019, 07:47:44 AM
Hi Kim,
 Well that’s a bugger on two fronts.

An old friend of mine has a very good saying.......

“The high cost of saving money”

A hard lesson to learn......we’ve all been there done that!

Cheers Kerrin
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: propforward on December 09, 2019, 02:33:22 PM
Wow - this is some lovely work Kim - very impressive. So involved! You must be pleased with how this is coming along.

I totally empathize on drill bits. I've made that mistake. At first I assumed I was just drilling holes with poor working practices, but you can't beat quality cutting tools.
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Kim on December 10, 2019, 05:12:29 AM
Thanks Kerrin and Stuart.  Appreciate the commiserations and kind words both!
Kim
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: mike mott on December 11, 2019, 12:31:39 AM
Hi Kim, Ah that sucks! I agree that it is often much faster to start over that trying to fix some problems. Plus I agree with all the comments about quality cutting tools. I have even seen a drill bit unwind  :facepalm:

Looking forward to the new parts.

Mike
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: fumopuc on December 13, 2019, 07:53:19 PM
Hi Kim,  some very nice and sucessfull fabrication work is going on there.
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Kim on December 14, 2019, 06:08:46 AM
Thanks Mike and Achim! :)
Kim
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Roger B on December 14, 2019, 03:41:00 PM
I have been caught like that  :(  and now only buy good (expensive) drill bits and reamers.
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: crueby on December 14, 2019, 04:39:52 PM
Kim, I have had great results with the cobalt drill bits from these guys, all sizes available single, some in 6 or 12 packs. I used theirs to replace some of the worn out ones from my set.
https://www.aircraft-tool.com/shop/detail.aspx?PRODUCT_ID=012-50
Good prices but still very good quality, much better than the silly-putty ones from the home stores!
Chris

 :popcorn: :popcorn: :popcorn:
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Kim on December 15, 2019, 06:32:52 AM
Thanks Roger!  Good tools make a big difference to the enjoyment for sure.

Thanks for the link Chris.  Looks like an interesting place!
Kim
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Kim on December 29, 2019, 06:15:53 PM
I’ve had some time off around Christmas and have had more shop time than usual.  Because of this, I’ve been able to catch back up to where I was before I decided to re-do the horseshoe assembly.

I didn’t take many pictures here because we’ve been through all this before. But, I did want to talk about what I did differently this time around.  The quick summary would be that I was just more careful.  The reality has a lot more detail.  This time I knew what to be more careful about!

One of my issues was that I didn’t allow for the 0.040” difference in the radius for the top horseshoe member compared to the bottom.  So, this time, when bending the top, I wrapped a piece of the 0.040” sheet around the 1-1/4" mandrel it to make up for that difference. I didn't do that last time.
(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/029b-RevisitingTheHorseshoe-1-DSC_6382.jpg)

And I made sure that the top and bottom members had the exact same shape, with only that 0.040” difference.  It might be hard to tell what’s going on in this picture, but the TOP horseshoe member (prior to making the horizontal bends) is sitting directly on top of the bottom.  You can see that 0.040” cutout all around the inside edge of the top member.
(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/029b-RevisitingTheHorseshoe-2-DSC_6385.jpg)

The next thing I did differently was to leave some material to make a radiused flange on the verge board.  This helped make sure there were no gaps around that radius.  This was a big problem for me with the first version.  (Kozo’s plans show to cut the tab out of the radius section completely – I liked this method MUCH better).
(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/029b-RevisitingTheHorseshoe-3-DSC_6390.jpg)

Finally, and the biggest difference this time around, was how I assembled all the elements.  The first time, I assumed the top and bottom horseshoe members defined the shape, and I made the vertical board fit them.  Then, after getting everything screwed together,   I filed off the excess from the vertical board to make it match.

The second time around I reversed that.  I made the vertical board nice and square and made it the EXACT correct height.  I made IT define the height and the basic shape. I then attached the horseshoe members to the vertical board, using the vertical board as a guide for keeping things square.  This process resulted in a much better-finished product.

Here I’m shaving the height of the vertical board to get it close to the correct height.
(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/029b-RevisitingTheHorseshoe-4-DSC_6392.jpg)

With a final pass of the mill to clean things up and get it exact and square.
(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/029b-RevisitingTheHorseshoe-5-DSC_6394.jpg)

And here it is, all screwed together and mounted in place.
(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/029b-RevisitingTheHorseshoe-6-DSC_6402.jpg)
Interestingly, you can see a little gap between the top member and the bottom member in the lower-left corner of this picture. This shows that the length of the upper member was about 1/16" too short based on all the numbers in Kozo's plan.  I was VERY careful to get the exact right lengths.  But those bends just put a bit of a monkey wrench in things and make the lengths somewhat difficult to predict.  Using the vertical board as the reference was the key to getting this assembled square and accurate.

The other thing I did differently is that I didn’t soft solder the horseshoe parts together – yet.  Kozo has you do that at this point.  But another problem I was running in to was that I didn’t have access to drill and tap holes for mounting the front boards.  I will wait until the whole tank is complete before I solder things together.

This brings me back to where I was about a month ago. But in much better shape I believe :)

Thanks for watching me struggle,
Kim
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Kim on December 29, 2019, 06:22:13 PM
Now, to continue on with the Front Plates!

Here’s where we left the front plates – I’d cut them and made notches to fit around the verge board.  And now I need to form the curve so I can cut them to size.  So, I’m just about to anneal the plates before bending.
(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/030a-FrontPlatesContinued-01-DSC_6405.jpg)

After bending, I cut them to length on the front. Then I kinda flattened them out again to emboss the rivets.  Kozo says to emboss the rivets before bending, but I couldn’t figure out how to get the right length without bending.  So I did it this way.

And here I’ve got it marked (on the back) for rivet locations.  It’s just the horizontal location.  I figured the distance from the edge would be set by the embossing jig.
(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/030a-FrontPlatesContinued-02-DSC_6407.jpg)

And here I am embossing the rivets all around the outside edge of the part:
(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/030a-FrontPlatesContinued-03-DSC_6410.jpg)

Ah yes, one other thing – based on some excellent advice from Mike Mott, I made a new die with the rim of the die set to the size to set the spacing correctly.  This worked a treat! And even though I marked the locations of the rivets, I wouldn’t have had to.  This produced very regular spacing.
(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/030a-FrontPlatesContinued-04-DSC_6415.jpg)

After embossing the rivets I re-bent the panels into place:
(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/030a-FrontPlatesContinued-11-DSC_6413.JPG)

To attach the front panels to the tank base I needed to make the front corner members.  These are short lengths of 1/4" square brass.  They have to have a little notch cut out of them so they go around the copper sides.
(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/030a-FrontPlatesContinued-05-DSC_6418.jpg)

Then I drilled and tapped a 3-48 hole to mount them to the base.  This I a picture of a tinny little tap handle (only about 1.5” long) that I purchased recently from Little Machine Shop.  It is the greatest thing since sliced bread!  I just love it!  It gives you enough leverage to tap these little holes, but it gives you a LOT of control.  And it's so light I’m not nearly as worried about breaking the tap!  A very good investment, I’d highly recommend it.
(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/030a-FrontPlatesContinued-06-DSC_6421.jpg)

Here’s the pair of front corner members:
(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/030a-FrontPlatesContinued-07-DSC_6425.jpg)

And now, after they have been screwed in place.
(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/030a-FrontPlatesContinued-08-DSC_6427.jpg)

Next, I need to cut the top edge of the front plates to length.  Here’s how I marked those for length:
(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/030a-FrontPlatesContinued-09-DSC_6429.jpg)

Length marked on both sides:
(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/030a-FrontPlatesContinued-10-DSC_6431.jpg)

That pretty much gets my build log up to date.  A bit more to go on the front plates, then it's on to the top plate, and we’ll have the basic form of the tank completed :)

Thanks for following along,
Kim
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: b.lindsey on December 29, 2019, 06:36:44 PM
Impressive as always Kim. Sorry about the redo, but you seem much happier with things now which is good!!

Bill
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: crueby on December 29, 2019, 07:13:10 PM
Those rivet patterns came out great!
 :popcorn: :popcorn: :popcorn:
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: cnr6400 on December 29, 2019, 09:04:50 PM
Great work Kim!  :ThumbsUp: :ThumbsUp: :ThumbsUp: :popcorn: :popcorn: :popcorn:
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Kim on December 30, 2019, 05:30:28 AM
Impressive as always Kim. Sorry about the redo, but you seem much happier with things now which is good!!

Bill
Thanks Bill!  I am much happier :).  There are still things that could be better, but it passed the 'good enough' point on my quality meter, so we're going forward!

Thanks,
Kim
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Kim on December 30, 2019, 05:31:05 AM
Thanks for following along Chris and CNR :)
Kim
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Kim on January 01, 2020, 06:23:05 PM
To finish off the front plates, I need to silver solder some little tabs onto the top end of the plates.  This will help the joint with the top plate that is coming next.

So, here’s one of the front plates all setup to hard solder the tab in place:
(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/030b-FrontPlatesContinued-01-DSC_6436.jpg)

And after the soldering is complete.  This went well.  I’m getting much better at this.  Guess practice really does help!  I’m quite enjoying the silver soldering now.  It’s quite satisfying!
(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/030b-FrontPlatesContinued-02-DSC_6439.jpg)

With the fabrication completed, all we have left is to mount them to the tank. Kozo recommends #0-80 round head screws.  I marked 10 locations around the rim and drilled right through the faux rivet for these mounting screws.
(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/030b-FrontPlatesContinued-03-DSC_6445.jpg)

Then marked the first holes on the supporting structure and drilled and tapped.
(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/030b-FrontPlatesContinued-04-DSC_6448.jpg)

Here’s a picture of one of the many front plate fittings needed to mark the spots for the screws.  I marked them one or two at a time.  Notice that the Verge Board has been removed and I’ve got a few scraps of 0.040” plate stuck in those holes to fill the gap.  If I’d soldered it all together already, I would not have been able to remove it and I don’t know HOW I would have been able to drill and tap those mounting holes!
(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/030b-FrontPlatesContinued-07-DSC_6456.jpg)

Drilling through the copper tank sides after marking:
(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/030b-FrontPlatesContinued-05-DSC_6451.jpg)

And tapping the receiving holes for the #0-80 screws.
(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/030b-FrontPlatesContinued-11-DSC_6462.jpg)

This process involved a lot of steps for each screw (marking, drilling, tapping, re-fitting, repeat). So a lot of assembly and dis-assembly.  Interestingly, these little #1 and #0 brass screws aren’t all that sturdy. You don’t have to work very hard to just twist their little heads right off!  Needless to say, I did that several times.  Usually, I could grab the exposed part of the screw and unscrew it with some vice-grips.  But sometimes there wasn’t enough of a nubbin exposed to get a hold of, so I had to drill it out. This picture commemorates one of those events. I’m drilling out the middle of the #0 screw with a #58 drill bit.  Then I used a cutting tap to remove the remainder of the screw.  Not a big deal, but it all takes time.  I’m learning to be a little more ginger with these teeny-weeny brass screws!
(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/030b-FrontPlatesContinued-06-DSC_6453.jpg)

Last, but not least, I marked, drilled, and tapped mounting holes for the front corner members.  This picture shows the left side installed, and the right side sitting next to it, waiting to be installed.
(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/030b-FrontPlatesContinued-09-DSC_6466.jpg)

And here’s the front plates, fully installed.
(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/030b-FrontPlatesContinued-10-DSC_6471.jpg)

Next up is the top plate, and it will start to look like a tender!
Kim
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: b.lindsey on January 01, 2020, 06:45:13 PM
Very nice Kim. Excellent job as well through the pictures and words of each step you take. Going to be a fine looking tender for sure!!

Bill
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: crueby on January 01, 2020, 06:53:44 PM
Lot of fiddly steps, but it came out great!
 :popcorn: :popcorn: :popcorn:
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Kim on January 02, 2020, 05:23:36 AM
Thanks Bill and Chris!
Kim
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Kim on January 03, 2020, 06:22:05 PM
Chapter 5.8– Top Plate

The Top Plate was cut from the larger brass 0.040” sheet using my Rigid reciprocal saw.  This works quite well, but it’s not overly accurate.  It cuts fast, but you have to leave a good margin.
(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/031a-TopPlate-01-DSC_6475.jpg)

I’ve fixed a couple of pieces of steel bar to the edge of the bench that I use to clamp larger thin sheet while filing – anything too big for my vise.  It’s not perfect, but it works OK.  I wish I had a way to clamp it in the middle, but I haven’t figured that out yet.
Anyway, using this, I cleaned up the edges, squared up 3 sides, and took it to the correct width.
(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/031a-TopPlate-02-DSC_6478.jpg)

I then lined it up and used a scribe to mark the shape of the cut out for the front end.
(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/031a-TopPlate-03-DSC_6481.jpg)

Like so (this is the bottom side that I scribed).  I then took that mark and transferred it out 0.080” – this is the aprox line that I’m aiming at for this cut-out.  (The 0.080” comes from the thickness of the vertical board and the verge board.)
(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/031a-TopPlate-04-DSC_6484.jpg)

I then proceeded to cut the shape out using the scroll saw.
(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/031a-TopPlate-05-DSC_6487.jpg)

And then slowly filed it to shape, test fitting frequently between filings.
(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/031a-TopPlate-06-DSC_6491.jpg)

One thing to point out: despite all my carefulness, the back end of the Front Plates came out slightly different lengths.  One side sticks out a tad more than the other (see the red arrows).  I shaped the top plate to match this.
(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/031a-TopPlate-07-DSC_6495a.jpg)

After getting the cutout to fit, I bent the top plate to shape.  I had to do this in order to know exactly how long it needed to be. As I bent it to shape, I also shortened the length till it fit.
(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/031a-TopPlate-08-DSC_6499.jpg)

This took a lot of twiddling and adjusting, but I’m pretty pleased with the fit at this point.
 (http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/031a-TopPlate-09-DSC_6500.jpg)

Next, I need to make an access cutout in the top of the tender.  The Tender Manhole will eventually be fitted into this cutout.  There are also a few holes for mounting the Headlight Base. Here’s the layout for the cutout and the holes for the headlight base.
 (http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/031a-TopPlate-10-DSC_6506.jpg)

Since the corners of the cutout are supposed to be 1/16” radius, I used a 1/8” drill in each corner.  I’ll saw out the opening between those holes.  I used the mill table to accurately locate each corner of the cutout, and to locate and drill the headlight mounting holes.
(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/031a-TopPlate-11-DSC_6509.jpg)

And here’s our state of play at the moment:
(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/031a-TopPlate-12-DSC_6511.jpg)

Thanks for taking a look.
Kim
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Admiral_dk on January 03, 2020, 09:06:59 PM
Quote
Thanks for taking a look.

It is us who should be thanking you for all the work - we are just enjoying the Journey from a safe distance  :)
 :cheers:     :popcorn:

Oh and before I forget - very nice work Kim  :praise2:

Best wishes

Per
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Kim on January 03, 2020, 10:12:28 PM
Thank you, Per!
I appreciate your comment and the moral support you and other people following my build.  I've learned so much from people commenting on better way's to do things or offering helpful hints on how they did it.

You and people on this forum have taught me everything I know about machining! :)
Kim
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: zeeprogrammer on January 03, 2020, 10:26:07 PM
Quote
Thanks for taking a look.
It is us who should be thanking you for all the work - we are just enjoying the Journey from a safe distance  :)
 :cheers:     :popcorn:

 :ThumbsUp: Indeed.
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Kim on January 03, 2020, 10:30:44 PM
Thank you Zee :)
Kim
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Jo on January 04, 2020, 07:31:31 AM
Nice bit of plate work Kim  :)

I have always struggled with those reciprocating saws. I found they had a mind of their own  :paranoia: I see you used a timber clamp to hold the large plates vertically for filing - I use a long thick bit of steel angle clamped in the vice and then clamp the plate to the extended piece of angle to the side of the vice, it brings the work a little higher for finishing ;)

Jo
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Kim on January 04, 2020, 05:52:32 PM
Thanks Jo,
Good idea on using some angle iron in the vise for holding the plate.  I'll have to see if I can find a couple of chunks of angle iron to use for that!
Kim
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: scc on January 04, 2020, 10:03:04 PM
Some great work on the plates Kim, something I've not needed to tackle on small scale  yet....it's good to see it all coming together. :popcorn: :popcorn:       Back in my classic car days I regularly used lengths of thick angle clamped together with deep throat clamps for forming awkward chassis sections, mostly out the side of a heavy vice as Jo mentioned.
Much of the time I'm just quietly following along and enjoying the ride.             Best Wishes            Terry
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Kim on January 05, 2020, 05:21:03 AM
Thanks for the comments, Terry!
Kim
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Steamer5 on January 05, 2020, 07:21:21 AM
Hi Kim,
 Looking good! Been enjoying the journey.

You just want to be careful, all that gold & you will have Don come visit with his polishing gear........


Cheers Kerrin
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Kim on January 05, 2020, 02:54:43 PM
Thanks Kerrin!

Yeah, I've thought about that.  My plan to avoid that is to plaint it soon.  Cover up all that pretty shiny brass with a nice black powder coat! :)
Kim
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Kim on January 05, 2020, 03:00:27 PM
Moving on with the top plate, I used the scroll saw to cut out the square section for the manhole:
(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/031b-TopPlate-1-DSC_6513.jpg)

Then I cleaned up the edges on the mill.  I didn’t want to cut out the entire thing on the mill because this setup for holding the top plate wasn’t that secure – it caused some bowing in the middle of the top plate.  I figured it was OK for skimming a few thou off the edge, but that a more challenging cut could be potentially error-prone, so I did it on the scroll saw.
(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/031b-TopPlate-2-DSC_6518.jpg)

Next up was embossing all the rivets.  And boy, were there a LOT of them!
I whipped up a little rounded guide to use for the inside corners here. Seemed to work pretty well.
(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/031b-TopPlate-3-DSC_6522.jpg)

I had to get pretty creative with clamping the guide.  Since I’d bent the plate first, it caused some interesting interference with various elements of the mill.  But I worked around them all.  My backup was to flatten the plate out somewhat for embossing, then re-bend like I did with the front plates.  But I’m glad I didn’t have to do that!
(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/031b-TopPlate-4-DSC_6524.jpg)

And here’s the completed top plate:
(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/031b-TopPlate-5-DSC_6525.jpg)

In situ on the rest of the tank (still not attached though).
(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/031b-TopPlate-6-DSC_6530.jpg)

I’ve had some time off work over the holidays, but starting tomorrow, I’m back at it. So, things will be returning to their standard glacial pace now.  While it is a good thing that I’m employed, I will certainly miss being home and having the flexibility to work in the shop when I want to!

As always, thanks for stopping by!
Kim
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: cnr6400 on January 05, 2020, 04:28:20 PM
Looking great Kim!  :ThumbsUp: :ThumbsUp: :ThumbsUp: :popcorn: :popcorn: :popcorn:
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: scc on January 05, 2020, 04:41:16 PM
I love the embossed effect :ThumbsUp:          bet you are glad they are not real rivets :hellno:        Terry
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: crueby on January 05, 2020, 05:08:10 PM
Terrific!

For milling thin stock like that, clamping it down with a block of wood or between two blocks keeps it from bending up - though it can make it harder to see where you are on the cut.
 :popcorn: :popcorn: :popcorn:
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Kim on January 06, 2020, 01:14:57 AM
Thanks CNR!

Yes, Terry, I thought about that too!  glad these are all just fake embossed rivets.  It would take forever to do all those rivets - and they are so small!

Thanks Chris. I'll have to keep that one in mind for working with thin stock like this :)

Kim
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: propforward on January 06, 2020, 01:18:54 AM
You have a supreme amount of patience. It will pay off - the finished article is going to look amazing. Very impressive.
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Kim on January 06, 2020, 01:43:34 AM
Thanks Stuart!
Kim
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Kim on January 12, 2020, 12:42:01 AM
Chapter 5.9– Rear Corner Member

The Rear Corner Member connects the end of the top plate to the base.  It’s made from a piece of 5/16” square brass.  Kozo’s drawings are very good, and there are very few mistakes I’ve found on them.  But this happens to be one – the text says you should use 5/16” square stock, but the drawings indicate 1/4" square.  The drawing for the part is wrong.  It really should be 5/16” as the text says.  The 5/16" measurement works out correctly with all the rest of the dimensions, like hole placement and such, so I'm certain that's the correct one.  I just wanted to point this out in case it helps anyone in the future.  Kozo's drawings are astoundingly good, so don't let this change your opinion!

I cut the 5/16” bar to length and took notches out of each side, like so:
(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/032a-RearCornerMember-01-DSC_6531.jpg)

Then drilled and tapped 3-48 to attach the corner member to the base.
(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/032a-RearCornerMember-02-DSC_6534.jpg)

Here it is in place:
(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/032a-RearCornerMember-02-DSC_6565.JPG)

Next, I selected the spots for all the #0 screws to attach the top plate and drilled a clearance hole through the embossed rivet at each location.
(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/032a-RearCornerMember-03-DSC_6540.jpg)

Then began the tedious process of marking each hole, drilling it out and tapping.
(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/032a-RearCornerMember-05-DSC_6543.jpg)

To mark this connection between the front plate and top plate, I needed to block up some support.  I couldn’t mark it because it moved too much otherwise!
(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/032a-RearCornerMember-04-DSC_6547.jpg)

I marked the holes a few at a time, drilled them:
(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/032a-RearCornerMember-06-DSC_6550.jpg)

And tapped them.
(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/032a-RearCornerMember-07-DSC_6548.jpg)

And here’s a few beauty shots showing the nearly enclosed tank:
(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/032a-RearCornerMember-08-DSC_6553.jpg)

(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/032a-RearCornerMember-09-DSC_6556.jpg)

(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/032a-RearCornerMember-10-DSC_6559.jpg)

The next step will be a bunch of soldering to more permanently fasten all the pieces of the tank together.

Thanks for stopping by my shop on this rainy Saturday afternoon.  Hope you enjoyed your stay!
Kim
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Flyboy Jim on January 12, 2020, 03:19:49 AM
I did enjoy my stay, Kim. It's been fun watching this project come together.

Jim
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: zeeprogrammer on January 12, 2020, 03:26:23 AM
Very  much enjoying the ride.

Nice set of pics!
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Kim on January 12, 2020, 05:38:14 AM
Thanks Jim and Zee!  Glad you enjoyed it!
Kim
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Johnmcc69 on January 12, 2020, 02:34:22 PM
 :ThumbsUp:
 Looks great Kim! I really enjoy seeing your fabrications come together.

 John
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Kim on January 12, 2020, 06:39:36 PM
Thanks John!
Kim
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Kim on January 20, 2020, 12:58:48 AM
Chapter 5.10 – Soft Soldering and Filing the Bottom

My goal today yesterday was to finish up the tank assembly.  I need to soft solder together all the parts so that it is one water-tight unit.

I decided to take it in smaller pieces, if I can, rather than just try and solder the whole thing together.  Seems like it will be REALY hard to get back in some of the corners as a whole unit.  It will also be easier to give each section the attention that it deserves if I do it in smaller chunks.  (This is my theory anyway)

So, I start by soldering the corner members to the front plates.  Here it is all set up for soldering.
(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/033a-TankAssembly-1-DSC_6568.jpg)

Now, doing it one section at a time caused this problem though – I have to maintain the little openings for other plates to slide into.  The soft solder effectively filled the 0.040” gap at the edge of the corner members.  So I used a razor saw to clear out those openings.
(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/033a-TankAssembly-2-DSC_6575.jpg)

This is an attempt to show you one of the slots I’m talking about, after opening it up.
 (http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/033a-TankAssembly-3-DSC_6569.jpg)

Here are all three corner members solder to their respective parts – the left and right front plates and the rear of the top plate.
(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/033a-TankAssembly-4-DSC_6579.jpg)

Now comes my latest setback.  I was attempting to clean up the solder joint area on some of the Horseshoe Member pieces using a fine Scotch-Brite wheel and ‘thought’ I was being careful.  But this thing is a rather gangly piece with things sticking out all over the place. And, well, I must have touched it to the wrong side of the wheel and the part shot out of my hand, bounced around a few times and hit the floor.  None too gently I might add.  Needless to say, all my carefully shaped curves and angles were all a skew :(
(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/033a-TankAssembly-5-DSC_6582.jpg)

And what’s worse, is that it cracked partway through at one place where there’s a hole close to a corner (too close – that wasn’t very good planning on my part).
(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/033a-TankAssembly-6-DSC_6583.jpg)

After scolded myself for using the stupid Scotch-Brite wheel when I KNEW I shouldn’t, I started on the recovery plan.  (I KNEW I shouldn’t have used that wheel for this very reason but it’s so easy, and I was being careful… but not careful enough – have I ever been able to be ‘careful enough’ that I don’t lose a piece while using that wheel?  Not very often! So, I deserved the scolding! - Don’t you hate it when your right, but you don’t listen to yourself?)

Anyway,  my recovery plan was to anneal the part again and carefully re-form it back into its intended shape.  If I could be careful enough not to break it completely, it should be plenty good once it is all soldered into place.

So, the next many hours were spent re-forming and re-fitting that piece into the rest of the assembly. And of course, to make sure it all fit properly, I had to re-assemble everything I’d taken apart.  But in the end, I got there.
(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/033a-TankAssembly-7-DSC_6585.jpg)

After that fiasco, I think I’m now ready to get back to the soldering.  But first, I have to take it all back apart again so I can clean the areas to be soldered.
(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/033a-TankAssembly-8-DSC_6588.jpg)

This was about all I could handle for one day.  It will take more time than I had (more patience than I had right then, to be honest) to flux up and solder it all together.  This will be a multi-hour process.  Maybe tomorrow?  I’ve got Monday off for MKLJ day:)

We’ll see how it goes then.
Kim
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Dave Otto on January 20, 2020, 01:21:25 AM
Ouch Kim!

I have been there more times than I like to think about. Amazing how fast that wheel can take your part, slam it against the floor, bounce it off the ceiling and send it to the corner in a wadded up heap. >:(

Nice recovery, hopefully the rest goes with out any problems.


Dave
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Kim on January 20, 2020, 05:13:54 AM
Thanks for the commiseration Chris.
I'm not feeling quite as frustrated about it now.  But yesterday, I wasn't a very happy camper!  :Mad:
Yet again, re-learning a lesson I already knew...  :facepalm:
Kim
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Jo on January 20, 2020, 07:54:42 AM
I hate it when that happens  :toilet_claw:

As you proved just because something unintended happens does not mean we cannot get round it and no one will ever know :)

Jo
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Vixen on January 20, 2020, 12:48:26 PM
Hi Kim,

How did you get on today? Did you fix it?

Mike
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Kim on January 20, 2020, 06:38:19 PM
Thanks Jo and Vixen.
I'm just about to head out to the shop.  My plan (yeah, right :)) is to finish soldering up the tank today.  I'll be sure and report back on how I do.

Kim
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: b.lindsey on January 20, 2020, 07:15:51 PM
Just catching back up Kim after a few days I missed. Sorry about the misshap, but excellent recovery. Things look great!!

Bill
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: zeeprogrammer on January 20, 2020, 11:02:44 PM
I'm really enjoying this thread. Lot's of learning. And although mishaps are a real bummer, I appreciate your posting them and seeing the recovery.

The tank assembly is awesome. When I first read it, I thought, man, he's going to be holding his breath throughout the process. I would be.
I would have been so scared, after all that work, to muss it up at the end.

Good job!  :ThumbsUp:
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Kim on January 21, 2020, 05:02:31 AM
Thank you for your support Bill and Zee!
As you can see, I need all the help I can get! :)
Kim
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Kim on January 21, 2020, 05:18:25 AM
As promised earlier, here’s my update on today’s shop session. And (spoiler alert!) it didn’t come out too badly, I think.

So today, I cleaned up the parts around the solder joints again – being quite careful NOT to take any unnecessary risks this time around!

Then I assembled the parts with flux in the joints.  For the first solder session, I did the horseshoe assembly and the front and top plates.  This was about the minimum I could do.  I’d have liked to do the horseshoe assembly on its own but once I soldered down the verge board there would be no way to get to the hold-down screws for the front and top plates.  So I did them all at once.  Also, I assembled them all on the tank base to make sure everything was aligned properly.
(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/033b-TankAssembly-1-DSC_6593.jpg)

With that part assembled, I removed the base plate and then took it over to the soldering station.
(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/033b-TankAssembly-2-DSC_6597.jpg)

And here’s after soldering the whole thing.  There were a lot of joints there and it took me some time to get them all done. And things got pretty hot and boiled off the flux so I added more.  You can see the charred remains here.  But all in all, it actually came out not too bad!
(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/033b-TankAssembly-3-DSC_6600.jpg)

After cleaning this section up, I reattached the soldered portion to the tank baseplate then fluxed the joints for the sides and screwed them in place.  Once everything was ready, I again removed the baseplate and went to solder things.  This is after soldering the sides in place.  Not quite as charred this time, but still, it’s a pretty good mess.
(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/033b-TankAssembly-4-DSC_6603.jpg)

Here are a few beauty shots, after cleaning things up.  The underside isn’t so pretty:
(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/033b-TankAssembly-5-DSC_6608.jpg)

But the outside isn’t so bad.  Still some discoloration and some more cleaning to do, but it's not too bad!
(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/033b-TankAssembly-6-DSC_6611.jpg)

So I’m calling this a success!  Thank you all for your continued support and patience with me.
Kim
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Jo on January 21, 2020, 07:39:44 AM
What are you using to clean off the old flux Kim?

Jo
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Admiral_dk on January 21, 2020, 12:07:00 PM
Nice progress and recoveries Kim  :cheers:

I would not be too worried about the coloration as long as the tank is water tight - as I'm sure it will be painted later (or ?).

Per
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Kim on January 21, 2020, 08:13:23 PM
What are you using to clean off the old flux Kim?

Jo

I usually soak in a pickle solution for a while.  Unfortunately, my pickle solution is several years old and has been used a lot. Probably need to change it out.  But worse than this, my pickle receptacle is too small for the tank to fit in.  It's an old large glass cooking pot - probably 5 quart or so?  I can't even submerge half of it.  So, left one side in for a minute, splashed it around a bit, then took it to the sink and used soap.  Probably not the best of solutions.  I should leave it soaking in the pickle longer I'm sure.

And get new pickle solution!

I don't like the really caustic stuff so I've been using Sparex No 2.

Kim
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Kim on January 21, 2020, 08:15:51 PM
Nice progress and recoveries Kim  :cheers:

I would not be too worried about the coloration as long as the tank is water tight - as I'm sure it will be painted later (or ?).

Per

I did a quick check an found a leak around the front part, so did a little more soldering to fix that.  At the moment, it seems somewhat water tight.  I'll have to check more carefully before I'm all done.

And yes, it will definitely be painted!  Just have to make sure and get the gunk off of it so the paint's sticking to the metal! :)

Kim
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Admiral_dk on January 21, 2020, 09:12:53 PM
Quote
And yes, it will definitely be painted!  Just have to make sure and get the gunk off of it so the paint's sticking to the metal! :)

Amen to that - but I'm sure that if you end up with a few spots that aren't removed in the pickle, you will use some very fine abrasive paper to get rid of that too - or similar solutions.
Just make sure whatever you use doesn't contain metal particles that can result in future oxidations under the paint ....
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Flyboy Jim on January 21, 2020, 09:27:16 PM
Your tank come out really nice Kim.

I wonder how an airbrush sand blaster would work for cleaning things up?

Jim
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: crueby on January 21, 2020, 09:31:50 PM
Your tank come out really nice Kim.

I wonder how an airbrush sand blaster would work for cleaning things up?

Jim
Having used one I could say - they spray a very small pattern, would take a long time to do an area that big. Also would give the metal some texture that you may not want.
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Kim on January 22, 2020, 05:01:54 AM
I've got more filing to do also, so some abrasive work will come with that.

Yes, more cleanup is in my future, that's for sure!    ;)

Kim
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: b.lindsey on January 22, 2020, 01:30:17 PM
Fantastic result Kim!!  Must feel nice once done with this part and getting it watertight!!

Bill
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Kim on January 22, 2020, 08:04:34 PM
Thanks Bill!
I've fixed a few obvious leaks, but not sure I can claim fully 'water tight' quite yet, but I'll get there!
Kim
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Kim on January 26, 2020, 02:25:53 AM
To finish off the tank assembly, I needed to file off the exposed screw heads (these were the screws that held it all together while soldering:
(https://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/033c-TankAssembly-01-DSC_6614.jpg)

Then I filed the bottom of the tank flat, making everything the same level:
(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/033c-TankAssembly-02-DSC_6617.jpg)

I also verified that it did not seem to leak any water.  This was a little sketchy since I had to balance water in different sections of the tank.  It won’t truly be watertight till it gets attached to the base.  But I tried to verify that all the solder connections did not leak. And it passed my cursory test.  I actually did this first, so that I could do some re-soldering if needed.  But it didn’t seem to be.  At least not at this point :)

And with that, the tank is basically done.  I did set it in my pickling tank to try and get rid of more of the yuck.  It helped, but I really think I need new pickling solution.  So, I’ve got some Sparex on order.
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Kim on January 26, 2020, 02:35:08 AM
Chapter 5.11– Headlight Baseplate and Headlight Base

Next, I started on the Headlight base.  I guess it's more of a ‘tail light’ since its on the back of the tender. But that’s what Kozo calls it.  I won’t be making the light for it yet – that will come later when I’m making the engine.  He has you make two identical headlights at the same time, one for the engine, and one for the tender, which makes a lot of sense :).  So for now, we’re just making a base for it to sit on.

The base has five pieces.  Four of them make the Headlight Base, and one is the Headlight Baseplate.  The base pieces are cut from 1/4" x 5/8” 1018 bar.  The baseplate is cut from a piece of 1/16” 4130a steel.  Here are the rough-cut parts:
(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/034a-HeadlightBase-01-DSC_6618.jpg)

I took the four base parts, cleaned up the ends and milled them to length.
(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/034a-HeadlightBase-02-DSC_6621.jpg)

Then I drilled some holes in the end for some screws to hold things while I silver solder the base together.  These holes are 1-72 tapping size (#52 I believe).
(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/034a-HeadlightBase-03-DSC_6623.jpg)

To drill the matching holes in the cross pieces, I used the holes I just drilled as a template.  To hold the template in place, I used several small clamps and some extra bits of scrap.  Here’s my method for doing this; The pieces labeled A and B are the ones we’re attaching.  A has the holes drilled already. We’re going to transfer those hole locations to B.  C is an extra piece I’m using to keep B lined up with the end of A.  One clamp holds B and C together, and the other holds A and C together.  This way A and B are lined up.
(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/034a-HeadlightBase-04-DSC_6627a.jpg)

In this shot, I’ve added a couple more scrap pieces and clamped on the ends to hold A and B in sideways alignment (you can’t see part B here because it's buried under the other pieces).
(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/034a-HeadlightBase-05-DSC_6629a.jpg)

I held this setup by hand and rested the bottom of piece B on the top of the vice, then transferred the holes into piece B.  It worked pretty well.
(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/034a-HeadlightBase-06-DSC_6625.jpg)

After transferring, I enlarged the holes in the A pieces to #1 clearance size then tapped the transferred holes.
(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/034a-HeadlightBase-07-DSC_6633.jpg)

Then I test assembled the box that will become the headlight base.
(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/034a-HeadlightBase-08-DSC_6637.jpg)

Next, I’ll silver solder it together.  But that will be for next shop time.

Thanks for stopping by!
Kim
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Flyboy Jim on January 26, 2020, 03:03:01 AM
This is quite the journey you're on Kim. I'm enjoying following along.  :popcorn:  :wine1:

 :cheers: Jim
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Kim on January 26, 2020, 05:40:26 AM
Thanks Jim!
I'm enjoying it a lot too!

Also enjoying watching you with your PMR#5 build!  You're doing a bang-up job there!
Kim
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Kim on February 02, 2020, 02:07:13 AM
Continuing on with the headlight base…

I cleaned the parts and fluxed them up.  Oh yeah – and added a few little punch marks inside the joints to allow clearance for the silver solder to flow (Kozo’s recommendation).  Ready to solder:
(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/1-DSC_6638.JPG)

After the soldering.  I actually did each corner in a row, all in one heating session.  I did one corner, turned it, added a bit of solder (as in this picture) and then did that corner, repeat.  I was able to do all four corners without getting a completely black crustified part!  I was pleased with that.
(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/2-DSC_6641.JPG)

After some pickling and a wash-up, I set it in the mill, supported on the inside by a parallel, and milled down the screws that were holding things together for soldering.
(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/3-DSC_6642.JPG)

Next, I took the plate, squared it up in the mill, and took it to size.  It's hard to see in that picture, but it is in the vice, sandwiched between two 1/2" parallels.  The parallels helped keep it from chattering since it provided good support close to the edge.
(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/4-DSC_6645.JPG)

Here are the two main assemblies for the headlight base.  Still some work to go.
(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/5-DSC_6647.JPG)

Here I’ve got the base in the mill vice and I’m using a few clamps to hold the plate in the correct position above the base to spot and drill through with a hole for tapping 1-72.  This way I know that the holes in the plate will line up with the tapped holes in the base!  The two holes in the middle are to mount the headlight itself (later).
(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/6-DSC_6649.JPG)

Then with just the plate, I opened up the holes to a 1-72 clearance and then countersunk them.
(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/7-DSC_6653.JPG)

Then I tapped the four holes in the base using my favorite little tap handle.   Have I mentioned how much I love that little thing?  Its probably one of my most used purchases I made last year!  It works so well for these little taps.  I really can’t recommend it highly enough!
(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/8-DSC_6654.JPG)

And here’s where I finished up today.   I still need to cut the angle on the base so that the headlight plate will be parallel with the ground when mounted on the back of the tender.  But that will be my next task.
(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/9-DSC_6656.JPG)

Thanks for taking a look,
Kim
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Flyboy Jim on February 02, 2020, 04:05:43 AM
Good progress today Kim.  :ThumbsUp:

Jim
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Kim on February 02, 2020, 06:01:14 AM
Thanks Jim!
Slow progress, but good progress! :)
That's the only way I can get it done!
Kim
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: kvom on February 02, 2020, 12:51:27 PM
Being lazy I likely would have made the "box" from a single piece of bar.   Soldering went well.
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Kim on February 02, 2020, 05:46:33 PM
Good point, that would have been less work.  But more expensive in materials, unless you had a chunk of steel that large already.  It would also make the tender heavier.  Probably no big deal though.

Thanks Kvom,
Kim
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Kim on February 09, 2020, 01:46:15 AM
Next on the headlight base is to carve the angle on the bottom so that it matches the top of the tender tank.

The angle I calculated based on the plans is just over 16 degrees.   But I know that my sides are a tad different and likely to be off a tad here or there :)  So, I measured the actual angle on my tank and use that rather than the calculated angle.  Here’s what I measured:
(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/1-DSC_6659.JPG)

Interesting that it’s exactly 15o.  But that makes it easier because I have a 15o angle block.  So, I used that to help set up the base in the mill vise.
(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/2-DSC_6661.JPG)

And used a 1/2" mill to carve it down.  The brass spots on the left are the brass solder screws.  Unfortunately, on the right edge, the remaining little nubbins of brass screw pulled out. :( I’ll fix those holes later with some JB-Weld.
(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/3-DSC_6667.JPG)

After cleaning up the edges, I marked out and drilled the four mounting screw holes.
(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/4-DSC_6670.JPG)

Then tapped them 2-56.
(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/5-DSC_6672.JPG)

Here’s the finished headlight base with the plate screwed on the top.
(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/6-DSC_6674.JPG)

And here we are in situ on the back of the tender tank.
(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/7-DSC_6677.JPG)

The last step for the day was to mix up a dab of JB-Weld and plug up those unsightly holes.
(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/8-DSC_6680.JPG)

Now we’ll let the JB-Weld set and then clean up around them.

Not a ton of progress, but at least I got some time out in the shop today!  And some time is better than no time!

Thanks for looking in,
Kim
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: crueby on February 09, 2020, 01:53:33 AM
 :popcorn: :popcorn: :popcorn:
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: zeeprogrammer on February 09, 2020, 01:54:21 AM
And some time is better than no time!

 :ThumbsUp:

I really enjoy your thread.

My dream is to build a Kozo loco and I'm learning a lot here.
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Kim on February 09, 2020, 02:05:15 AM
Thanks, Chris and Carl,
Appreciate your stopping by on this rainy Saturday!  (of course, this time of year, most Saturdays are rainy in the NW :)).
Kim
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: crueby on February 09, 2020, 02:14:41 AM
Thanks, Chris and Carl,
Appreciate your stopping by on this rainy Saturday!  (of course, this time of year, most Saturdays are rainy in the NW :) ).
Kim
A snowy Saturday over here!
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Flyboy Jim on February 09, 2020, 03:27:05 AM
That came out really nice Kim.   :ThumbsUp:

 But.............geeeez...............did you have to slip in that picture of your SPI Mini Protractor? I mean ..........that ranks right up there with those pictures that some people slip in of their Starrett 'Mini Mike"!   :embarassed:

So anyway...........where can I buy one?  :thinking:

Jim
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Steamer5 on February 09, 2020, 04:47:51 AM
Gezzz Jim you mean you DON'T have one??

Digital angle gauge should find …..


like here   http://www.wixey.com/anglegauge/

Cheers Kerrin
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Kim on February 09, 2020, 06:14:01 AM
Hey Jim,
Yeah, that's a handy little gadget to have for sure.  I think I picked mine up on sale at MSC.  I checked there now and they want' $104 for it.  I'm pretty sure I didn't pay that!  There's one on eBay for $50 https://www.ebay.com/itm/SPI-Magnetic-Base-Digital-Protractor-1-360-and-4-90-Measuring-Range/114097765749?hash=item1a90c1bd75:g:dRgAAOSwwgVeOIGN (https://www.ebay.com/itm/SPI-Magnetic-Base-Digital-Protractor-1-360-and-4-90-Measuring-Range/114097765749?hash=item1a90c1bd75:g:dRgAAOSwwgVeOIGN) which is getting closer.  I'm pretty sure I paid around $30 for it, but I could be wrong.  It was several years ago, so the price doesn't bother me now :)

The ones that Kerrin points to are probably just as good.

The SPI digital protractor works quite well and has been accurate enough for any use I've had for it.  The display shows two digits of accuracy past the decimal point, but the hundredths is always zero.  And its pretty clear that the tenths digit is somewhat imaginary too.  It gives you readouts to the tenth but the documentation says its only accurate to +/-0.3o.  So I'm sure there are more accurate indicators out there. But this one is nice - it has a magnetic base and has done the jobs I need it to do.

Another fun tool to add to your list!

Kim
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Kim on February 16, 2020, 02:04:36 AM
Chapter 5.12 – Coal Stopper

Today I worked on the Coal Stopper.  This is a gizmo that goes in front of the coal bin (I’ve been calling it the horseshoe) to keep the coal from rolling out.  Interestingly to me, it doesn’t seem like there’s much room for coal on this tender, but I guess that’s because it’s a switcher and generally only putters about in the yard. So, I guess it doesn’t need a lot of coal.

But, before I start on the Coal Stopper, I wanted to show the Headlight Base.  It's upside-down here, but that’s so you can see the two little spots along the front top edge that were filled with JB-Weld.  It looks pretty good. And once it’s painted, nobody will be any the wiser!
(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/035a-CoalStopper-01-DSC_6681.jpg)

OK, now we start on the Coal stopper.  I cut the required pieces out of 4130 Sheet Steel (1/16” and 0.040”) then squared them up and took them to size in the mill.
(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/035a-CoalStopper-02-DSC_6686.jpg)

Here’s all three pieces. The larger one is the stop plate and the two thin pieces are for the brackets. I’ve left them long and will cut to size after bending.
(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/035a-CoalStopper-03-DSC_6688.jpg)

I drilled holes in the stop plate for some solder holding screws.
(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/035a-CoalStopper-04-DSC_6690.jpg)

Then bent the brackets (still not cut to length).
(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/035a-CoalStopper-05-DSC_6692.jpg)

Next, I rounded the top corners off the stop plate.
(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/035a-CoalStopper-06-DSC_6694.jpg)

Here are the three pieces all ready to be soldered together.
(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/035a-CoalStopper-07-DSC_6695.jpg)

Well, I forgot to take any soldering pictures, but here’s what it looks like after silver soldering.
(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/035a-CoalStopper-08-DSC_6698.jpg)

And its high time for some family shots showing the progress.  So here are a few shots of everything completed so far:
(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/035a-CoalStopper-09-DSC_6703.jpg)

(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/035a-CoalStopper-10-DSC_6706.jpg)

(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/035a-CoalStopper-11-DSC_6709.jpg)

This was pretty exciting for me!  It’s the first time I’ve had all the pieces together for several months, and it looks pretty good!  It's starting to look like something :)

Thanks for coming on by!
Kim
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: crueby on February 16, 2020, 02:13:40 AM
Great looking family shot, following along!   :popcorn:
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Flyboy Jim on February 16, 2020, 02:40:58 AM
That IS a nice family shot Kim. Really gives a feel for what the Tender is going to look like. Quite the project I must say!  :ThumbsUp:

Jim
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Kim on February 16, 2020, 05:20:38 AM
Thanks Chris and Jim!
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Ye-Ole Steam Dude on February 16, 2020, 07:45:21 AM
Hello Kim,

Beautiful workmanship on these parts and incredible amount of work involved.

Have a great day,
Thomas
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: fumopuc on February 16, 2020, 09:59:07 AM
Hi Kim,
some good locking success there at the bench.

Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Firebird on February 16, 2020, 10:29:51 AM
 :popcorn: :popcorn: :popcorn: :ThumbsUp: :ThumbsUp: :ThumbsUp: :praise2: :praise2: :praise2:

Cheers

Rich
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: cnr6400 on February 16, 2020, 12:16:14 PM
Looks great Kim!  :ThumbsUp: :ThumbsUp: :ThumbsUp:
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: zeeprogrammer on February 16, 2020, 12:44:07 PM
Beautiful job!  :ThumbsUp:

I suspect you felt some giddiness when you took those photos. Really great job.
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Kim on February 16, 2020, 05:41:24 PM
Thanks everyone!  :cheers:
Yes, Zee, I was (and am) quite pleased!  Even had to bring it in to show my wife! She's very tolerant of my show-and-tell sessions  :embarassed:
Kim
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Kim on February 23, 2020, 01:06:39 AM
Chapter 5.14 – Dummy Side Plates

The last parts for the Tender Tank (Chapter 5) are the Dummy Side Plates.  These are made from 0.040” brass sheet.  But before I went cutting any brass, I wanted to make a cardboard template so that I could adjust the size and shape as needed to fit my tender.

Since I didn’t have a piece of cardboard large enough, I taped together several smaller pieces. These were just the backs of pads of paper or something – nothing too fancy.  Then I marked out the basic shape, cut it out, and trimmed it up to fit the way I wanted it to.

Here’s my template:
(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/036a-DummySidePlates-01-DSC_6713.jpg)

And here it is placed on the side of the tender:
(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/036a-DummySidePlates-02-DSC_6712.jpg)

Then I laid them out two of them on the brass sheet.  Using the template made it easier to optimize the brass stock, which is important with how expensive that stuff is!
(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/036a-DummySidePlates-03-DSC_6715.jpg)

It was too big to cut on my HF 4x6 band saw so I used the reciprocal saw.  It works well and cuts fairly fast but you have to leave a healthy margin because it's not overly accurate (to say the least).
(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/036a-DummySidePlates-04-DSC_6717.jpg)

I was able to take that to the bandsaw and cut the two pieces apart.
(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/036a-DummySidePlates-05-DSC_6720.jpg)

Then I used double-sided sticky tape to stick the two pieces together for the final shaping.
(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/036a-DummySidePlates-06-DSC_6724.jpg)

And I shaped it using files, holding between a couple of pieces of flat steel screwed to the side of my bench.  Not the best vice, but it works for these long pieces!
(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/036a-DummySidePlates-07-DSC_6726.jpg)

After I had it square and to the basic shape, I rounded the corners:
(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/036a-DummySidePlates-08-DSC_6729.jpg)

And then carefully separated the two pieces.
(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/036a-DummySidePlates-09-DSC_6731.jpg)

This gives you an idea of how the were taped together.  The spots on the left plate are some corrosion on the brass plate, not tape residue or anything.  I cleaned these up after I peeled the tape up.
(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/036a-DummySidePlates-10-DSC_6734.jpg)

Then I set about making all the rivets around the outside edge of the side panels.  For the spacing of these rivets, I again relied on the size of the rim of the die.  It worked quite well to keep things evenly spaced.
(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/036a-DummySidePlates-11-DSC_6737.jpg)

There are two rows of inner rivets. These are supposed to be done with double the spacing of the other rivets, so I just marked the spots where I wanted to emboss a rivet for these rows.
(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/036a-DummySidePlates-12-DSC_6740.jpg)

And here are the completed Dummy Side Plates.
(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/036a-DummySidePlates-13-DSC_6746.jpg)

Next time I’ll attach those to the tank and we’ll be on to the next chapter – The Tender Manhole!

Thanks for following along,
Kim
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: zeeprogrammer on February 23, 2020, 01:50:20 AM
Great job. And as usual, excellent documentation.  :ThumbsUp:
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Dave Otto on February 23, 2020, 05:06:17 PM
Lots of really good progress Kim!
The side panels also turned out very nice.

Dave
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Kim on February 24, 2020, 01:23:32 AM
Thanks Zee and Dave! :D
Kim
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: samc88 on February 24, 2020, 05:04:47 PM
Looking good. Lovely work

Sent from my G3121 using Tapatalk

Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Firebird on March 03, 2020, 04:20:32 PM
 :popcorn: :ThumbsUp:

Still following

Cheers

Rich
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Kim on March 08, 2020, 01:08:02 AM
Thank you for the comments, Sam and Rich!
Kim
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Kim on March 08, 2020, 01:10:20 AM
I’ve been out of town for a while, thus, no update last week.  But today I got a little shop time and finished up the Dummy Side Plates.

First, I drilled out a few of the embossed rivets in the side plates to make room for #0-80 mounting screws.
(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/036b-DummySidePlates-1-DSC_6751.jpg)

After carefully positioning the plate, I marked and drilled a hole to receive the mounting screw, then tapped it 0-80 (as shown in the picture).
(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/036b-DummySidePlates-2-DSC_6753.jpg)

Did that that for all of the screw hole in the dummy plates then took some beauty shots:
(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/036b-DummySidePlates-3-DSC_6754.jpg)

(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/036b-DummySidePlates-4-DSC_6758.jpg)

And this, my friends, completes Chapter 5, "Tank", in Kozo’s book.  Next up will be the Manhole.

See you for the next exciting installment!
Kim
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: crueby on March 08, 2020, 02:02:18 AM
Very nice!!
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: zeeprogrammer on March 08, 2020, 03:52:15 AM
... then took some beauty shots: ...

And well worth it.  :ThumbsUp:

I'm anxious for the next 'exciting installment'.  :popcorn: :popcorn:
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Kim on March 08, 2020, 05:29:52 AM
Thanks Chris and Zee!
Yes, the next installment will be positively riveting, I'm sure!  :ROFL:
Kim
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Ye-Ole Steam Dude on March 08, 2020, 12:38:18 PM
Hello Kim,

That is a work of art, wonderful craftsmanship on your part  :praise2:

Have a great day,
Thomas
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Flyboy Jim on March 08, 2020, 02:42:32 PM
Outstanding work Kim! :ThumbsUp: You've really gotten the hang of this type of metal work.

Jim
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Kim on March 16, 2020, 03:27:48 PM
Thank you Thomas and Jim!
Things have gotten quite hectic at work (and home) so I haven't had my usual time to check in on the forum!
Kim
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Kim on March 16, 2020, 03:34:31 PM
Chapter 6.1 – Mounting Plate, Manhole Plate, and Lug

Chapter 6 covers the Tender Manhole.  This is the assembly that will fit in the big square hole on the top of the tender tank.  When complete, you will be able to open the manhole cover to fill the tender with water or to access the hand pump to pump water into the boiler.  The large rectangle plate that holds the manhole cover is also removable to provide easy access to the inside of the tank.

The first part is the Mounting Plate.  It was cut from 0.040” brass sheet.  And since the first several parts are all from the same material I cut those at the same time.  In this picture, clockwise from the top left is the Mounting Plate (1), the manhole plate (2), the manhole flange (4), and the manhole itself (4) (the last two pieces are part of a single assembly, which is why they both have the same number).  The piece of brass in the lower right will become the mounting lug (3) for the manhole plate (just a scrap from the bin).
(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/037a-MountingPlate-01-DSC_6761.jpg)

The bandsaw leaves rough and not-very-straight edges.  So the first thing I did was to even out the top and bottom edges then mill it to width.
(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/037a-MountingPlate-02-DSC_6763.jpg)

Then holding the plate sideways, I milled the other dimension square, and to the correct length.
(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/037a-MountingPlate-03-DSC_6764.jpg)

Then I marked up the part showing where all the holes go and the large cutout in the middle.  It’s a little hard to see the scribe lines with all the scratches in the blue, but trust me, they are there!
(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/037a-MountingPlate-04-DSC_6768.jpg)

Using the DRO I drilled all the holes to size.
(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/037a-MountingPlate-05-DSC_6772.jpg)

Then I poked a hole in the part to remove and used the scroll saw to cut the large opening.
(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/037a-MountingPlate-06-DSC_6775.jpg)

Now I’ve got two pieces! :)
(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/037a-MountingPlate-07-DSC_6778.jpg)

Cleaned up the inside edge using files.
(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/037a-MountingPlate-08-DSC_6782.jpg)

And here’s the completed part!
(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/037a-MountingPlate-09-DSC_6785.jpg)

I used several clamps to hold the mounting plate in place, then drilled a couple of holes for mounting screws.  You can’t really see it in the picture, but the tank is being supported by a piece of wood clamped in the mill vice.
(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/037a-MountingPlate-10-DSC_6789.jpg)

Then I tapped the few holes I drilled:
(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/037a-MountingPlate-11-DSC_6791.jpg)

And attached the mounting plate on the OUTSIDE of the tank. This is not where it will be in the end, it will be attached to the inside.  But this allowed me to drill the rest of the holes for the mounting screws.
(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/037a-MountingPlate-12-DSC_6792.jpg)

And after tapping the remaining holes, we have attached the mounting plate:
(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/037a-MountingPlate-13-DSC_6797.jpg)

And here it is from the top:
(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/037a-MountingPlate-14-DSC_6800.jpg)

The next step was to file down the mounting screws – they are quite short, but still stick out the top of the tank.
(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/037a-MountingPlate-17-DSC_6805.jpg)

So, I filed them down.  I used some tape to help keep me from scratching up the rest of the tank in the process.
(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/037a-MountingPlate-18-DSC_6806.jpg)

And here it is, after being filed down.
(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/037a-MountingPlate-19-DSC_6809.jpg)

The next step will be the manhole plate that fits in on top of the mounting plate.  I started this by milling it square and to size.
(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/037a-MountingPlate-15-DSC_6801.jpg)

You can see that it fits in the hole! :)
(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/037a-MountingPlate-16-DSC_6802.jpg)

That’s all for today, thanks for stopping by to take a look.
Kim
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Admiral_dk on March 16, 2020, 08:49:20 PM
Nice progress Kim  :ThumbsUp:

The last many pictures of the Tender always has me thinking that you are very close to finish it and start on the Loco ..... But you keep on making more parts for the Tender  :thinking:

Per
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: zeeprogrammer on March 16, 2020, 09:38:44 PM
The last many pictures of the Tender always has me thinking that you are very close to finish it and start on the Loco ..... But you keep on making more parts for the Tender  :thinking:

Ha. My thought too.

This is going to be a reference for others wanting to build this.
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Kim on March 18, 2020, 08:01:35 PM
Thanks Per and Zee!
Yes, while the tank itself is close to completion, there are a lot of things left before the full tender is done.  In addition to completing the manhole, there's the hand pump, some pipe work, and several 'decorative' items like stairs and hand rails and such. But it is starting to look recognizable! :)

Kim
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: scc on March 18, 2020, 08:26:30 PM
Lovely work Kim,       Regards           Terry
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Kim on March 18, 2020, 10:13:59 PM
Thank you Terry!
Kim
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Kim on March 24, 2020, 12:40:53 AM
The next part on our list is the Manhole Plate.  This is the removable plate that has the manhole access to the tank.  It fits onto the Mounting plate that we just completed.

I squared up the blank and cut it to size, then marked and drilled all the holes.  Kozo recommends waiting to drill the manhole mounting holes till after you complete the manhole itself, but I went ahead and did it now. For things like this, I’ve found if I use the DRO to guarantee the same spacing on the mounting holes in the two parts that things work out quite well. And it saves having to line the parts up, punch the location of the hole, then use my eyeball to line up drilling a hole on that punch mark.  I find the DRO gives me a much higher success rate than punch and eyeball route (go figure :)).
(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/038a-ManHolePlate-1-DSC_6812.jpg)

Then I cut the opening for the manhole using the scroll saw.
(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/038a-ManHolePlate-2-DSC_6813.jpg)

Tapped the holes:
(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/038a-ManHolePlate-3-DSC_6817.jpg)

I didn’t get a shot of punching the faux rivets, but I did that next.  Then rounded the corners just a tad with a file (1/16” radius), and screwed it in place.
(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/038a-ManHolePlate-4-DSC_6825.jpg)

Not bad looking!  And the rivets even line up pretty well!
Kim
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Kim on March 24, 2020, 12:50:49 AM
Chapter 6.2 – Manhole

The manhole itself is made out of the same 0.040” sheet brass.  If you recall, I cut the piece for this a while back.  Before bending it, I squared up the edges and cut it to the exact length I’d calculated that was required to get the desired diameter. (I used the diameter at the center of the wall.  Not sure if that was the right place or if I should have used the inside diameter.  Regardless, it was close enough that it worked!)

Then I broke out my new slip rolls that I got for Christmas (thank you Santa) and put them to their first use:
(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/039a-Manhole-01-DSC_6826.jpg)

After annealing the brass and running it through the rollers again, it came out very nice and round!  Just right! :)  You can see the little attacher piece that holds the cylinder together and aligned.
(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/039a-Manhole-02-DSC_6830.jpg)

Next, I needed to make the manhole flange.  This was also cut at the same time.  I took that piece and laid out the location for the manhole.  I made the inner circle just a little small for the outer diameter of the manhole.
(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/039a-Manhole-03-DSC_6832.jpg)

After cutting out the circle with the scroll saw, I used a file to carefully and slowly open up the circle till the manhole fit. The thing to remember here is that the manhole is straight up and down, but the flange will be at about a 15o angle to match the top of the tank.  That means the hole for the manhole will be more of an ellipse. Not a big one, but just a tad! So I did more file work to open up the hole and get an angle on the edges.
(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/039a-Manhole-04-DSC_6835.jpg)

And here’s out it fits!
(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/039a-Manhole-05-DSC_6838.jpg)

Then I added a couple of brass screws – one on the top side (underneath the flange plate) and one at the bottom (above the flange plate) to help hold it in place during soldering.  (Not my idea, this was Kozo’s, and it was a brilliant idea I can tell you!)
(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/039a-Manhole-06-DSC_6841.jpg)

Here’s the flange and manhole all prepped and fluxed for silver soldering! (Note that I also knocked the corners off the flange to make the flange easier to round up later).
(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/039a-Manhole-07-DSC_6844.jpg)

And here’s after the soldering job.  Not too bad!  I really like how this part came out!  Silver soldering isn’t quite as scary to me as it used to be. I’d even say it was almost enjoyable!
(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/039a-Manhole-08-DSC_6845.jpg)

Here’s the post-pickle shot.  (I just wanted to admire my silver soldering job again  :embarassed:)
(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/039a-Manhole-09-DSC_6848.jpg)

Next, I mounted it in the Taig 4 jaw and centered it as good as I could, to make the flange round.  With the flange being at an angle, it made for a really bizarre interrupted cut.  The first time I centered it up in the chuck, I didn’t tighten the jaws too tight - I didn't want the brass deforming out of round.  This was a mistake.  As soon as the tool contacted the metal it just popped right off the jaws and went bouncing around in a rather frightening way!  Luckily, the damage was minimal (none to myself or the machine, and one divot in the flange where it hit the tool and a few smaller marks in other areas.  I was able to gently pound out the flange ding, and everything else is fine.  So for my second attempt, I tightened things up a quite a bit tighter and was WAY more careful to sneak up on the cut. I ended up deforming the bottom of the manhole a bit with how tight I got it, but in the end, it won’t matter because that part is being removed anyway.  And all the important parts stayed round!
(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/039a-Manhole-10-DSC_6851.jpg)

And here we are, the manhole with a round flange.
(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/039a-Manhole-11-DSC_6854.jpg)

That’s as far as I got this weekend.
Thanks for stopping by to take a look!
Kim
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Flyboy Jim on March 24, 2020, 02:24:00 AM
Excellent Kim!  :popcorn:

Jim
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: zeeprogrammer on March 24, 2020, 02:54:28 AM
Nice write-up!  :ThumbsUp:
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Kim on March 24, 2020, 07:45:05 PM
Thanks Jim and Zee! :)
Kim
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Roger B on March 25, 2020, 01:47:42 PM
I'm still following along and enjoying  :praise2: There's an amazing amount of detail in this build  :wine1:
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Kim on March 25, 2020, 04:00:48 PM
Thanks Roger!  :cheers:
Kim
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: samc88 on March 28, 2020, 06:29:45 PM
Excellent.Its looking good
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Kim on March 28, 2020, 11:21:27 PM
Thanks for stopping by and taking a look, Sam!
Appreciate it :)
Kim
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Kim on March 28, 2020, 11:24:41 PM
Continuing with the Manhole, I filed down the lug that I’d used to hold the cylinder together for soldering. This will be used to mount the hinge for the manhole cover eventually.
(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/039b-Manhole-1-DSC_6856.jpg)

Then I used a jewel’s saw to remove the bottom half of the manhole (the part NOT needed :) – and yes, I double-checked before sawing!).
(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/039b-Manhole-2-DSC_6861.jpg)

And now its in two pieces.  The part on the right is the part I care about.
(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/039b-Manhole-3-DSC_6863.jpg)

After filing the bottom flat, I held it lightly in the vice, to drill the mounting holes.  I started with 1/16” end mill since it was on a slope, then switched to a #52 to make the holes the right size.
(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/039b-Manhole-4-DSC_6866.jpg)

Now, mounting the manhole on the manhole plate, you can see the ragged edge along the inside of the manhole.  This will now be filed flush.
(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/039b-Manhole-5-DSC_6867.jpg)

Like so:
(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/039b-Manhole-6-DSC_6871.jpg)

And with that, the manhole assembly is complete!

Or is it!?  At this point, I realized I never made the lug for the manhole plate. So I’ve got one more piece to make before this assembly is complete.

Kim

Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Kim on March 28, 2020, 11:26:36 PM
So NOW, I’ll make the Lug for the manhole plate.  This lug will attach to the bottom of the plate and hold it in place so the bottom doesn’t flap about.

The lug is made from the same 0.040” sheet brass.  I used a scrap piece and made it the appropriate width (15/32”).  Then drilled the mounting holes:
(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/040a-ManholePlateLug-1-DSC_6873.jpg)

After that, I cut off the piece and filed 15o slopes on each of the front corners.  With that, the lug was complete.
(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/040a-ManholePlateLug-2-DSC_6876.jpg)

All that’s left is to mount it to the Manhole Plate:
(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/040a-ManholePlateLug-3-DSC_6878.jpg)

Then put it all together.
(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/040a-ManholePlateLug-4-DSC_6882.jpg)

And NOW the manhole assembly is complete! :)

Thanks for taking a look!
Kim
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Dave Otto on March 28, 2020, 11:29:26 PM
Looks great Kim!

Dave
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: zeeprogrammer on March 29, 2020, 03:13:14 AM
and yes, I double-checked before sawing!).

Sigh. Just what I needed. A reminder. I trimmed two parts today only to discover I had read the dimension between holes rather than the outer dimension.
I don't think double-checking works for me. I'm not sure triple-checking is enough.

Great thread. As I said before, this will be a reference for other builders.
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Kim on March 29, 2020, 05:33:56 AM
and yes, I double-checked before sawing!).
Sigh. Just what I needed. A reminder. I trimmed two parts today only to discover I had read the dimension between holes rather than the outer dimension.
I don't think double-checking works for me. I'm not sure triple-checking is enough.
Yes, I remembered to check THIS time - you know how many times I've done it backwards because I didn't remember to check?  Well, I don't.  Because it's such an embarrassingly large number that not only do I NOT want to remember, my subconscious actively works to keep me from remembering so that I won't get overly discouraged.  But if you want to know, read back through my builds and count the number of times.  Then multiply by 3.  Because sometimes I don't even mention it because its so embarrassing!

For example, just today, when I was drilling holes in the manhole flange, I carefully dialed everything in, then drilled the holes at the EXACT right spot.  But you know what?  its at a 15 degree angle!  And when I drilled them in the manhole plate, it was flat.  That made all the holes off by about 0.022" (Yes, I did the trig to figure it out).  So I went and widened the holes so they'd fit (using a 1/16" mill).  And guess what?  I made them farther apart - but they should have been 22 thou closer together!  So I did it one more time.  By this time, my tidy, carefully measured mounting holes were more like slots.  But it works.  And the screw heads MOSTLY cover up the oversized holes.  You can still see it if you look.  But I didn't point it out because I'd made such a point of saying (i my previous post) that as long as I use the DRO, my holes line up.  Which they would, if the operator didn't screw up!  (stupid operator).

Anyway, long story to prove my point.  So don't get too down on yourself, Zee.  There are others of us out here that sometimes remember to check, and double check. But then often forget to double check. And sometimes it accidentally works out OK. But most of the time, you find a way to work around it, or you start over.  At least, that's what I find.  I just take it as part of doing the work. I keep hoping I'll screw up less as I get more experience.  But I think its that I'm picking up more ways to 'make it work' when I screw up.

Kim
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Kim on March 29, 2020, 05:35:11 AM
Thank you Dave!   :)
Kim
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Kim on March 30, 2020, 05:00:31 PM
Chapter 6.3 – Manhole Cover

Yesterday’s shop time (brought to you by the Covid19 sequester) was spent making the Manhole Cover.

But first, I needed to even up and level the top of the manhole.  I want the top of the manhole to be parallel to the base of the tank car.  So I clamped the whole tank onto the mill and shaved a few thou off the top of the manhole.  The only trouble here was that while things were clamped well, the manhole itself is kind of suspended out in the middle of the tank, only supported by the sheet brass.  This made it chatter quite a bit.  And in chattering, it loosened the screws holding the manhole plate in place allowing it to raise up during one of the milling passes. After discovering this, I tightened things up again and did another pass to even things out again.  Other than being a few thou shorter than spec’d, nobody will be any the wiser.
(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/041a-ManholeCover-1-DSC_6885.jpg)

Now for the manhole cover.   This was cut from 1/16” brass sheet.  It started as a square with the corners cut off (no pic).  I then used locktite to attach it to the end of a piece of 1” steel.  After the Locktite had set, I put it in the lathe and turned it to the specified diameter.
(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/041a-ManholeCover-2-DSC_6888.jpg)

To help make sure Locktite didn’t let go while turning, I used the tail stock to hold a steel plug against the part.  You can see the steel plug in the above picture.  Below, you can see it removed and see the Manhole Cover turned to size.
(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/041a-ManholeCover-3-DSC_6890.jpg)

Leaving the part glued to the Mandrel, I transferred it into the square collet block and held that in the vice in the mill.  Here I cut a short flat on one side of the cover:
(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/041a-ManholeCover-4-DSC_6891.jpg)

Then drilled holes for the hinge and the handle.
(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/041a-ManholeCover-5-DSC_6895.jpg)

I bent a length of 0.080” brass wire to shape for the handle:
(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/041a-ManholeCover-6-DSC_6898.jpg)

Kozo says you can press fit or use soft solder.  But I wanted to use silver solder to attach the handle.  So I did.  Here’s the pre-solder shot:
(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/041a-ManholeCover-7-DSC_6899.jpg)

And after soldering:
(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/041a-ManholeCover-8-DSC_6904.jpg)

Then with some clean-up, the Manhole Cover is complete.
(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/041a-ManholeCover-9-DSC_6906.jpg)

The hinge will be next up.

Thank you for stopping by!
Kim
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: crueby on March 30, 2020, 05:33:01 PM
Nice! Your shop elves will appreciate having a new cave to hide in...


 :popcorn: :popcorn: :popcorn:
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Kim on March 30, 2020, 06:17:57 PM
Yeah, and this cave has a door!  Pretty up-town, don't you think?  :Lol:

Kim