Model Engine Maker

Supporting => Vehicles & Models => Topic started by: Kim on October 19, 2018, 01:58:26 AM

Title: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Kim on October 19, 2018, 01:58:26 AM
After I started the build, I wished I'd left space for an index.  Since I didn't, I'm adding it to the beginning of my intro post.The actual introduction starts right after the build index. Please skip up there if you don't want to read the index :)

Index of Kim's Kozo's Pennsy A3 Switcher Build:

Chapter 2: Tender Wheels
Chapter 2.1 - Tender Wheels - Reply 20 (http://www.modelenginemaker.com/index.php/topic,8552.msg186561.html#msg186561)
Chapter 2.2 - Tender Axles - Reply 105 (http://www.modelenginemaker.com/index.php?topic=8552.msg189853#msg189853)

Chapter 3: Tender Truck Frames
Chapter 3.1 - Journal Boxes - Reply 116 (http://www.modelenginemaker.com/index.php/topic,8552.msg190533.html#msg190533)
Chapter 3.2 - Journal Bearings - Reply 142 (http://www.modelenginemaker.com/index.php/topic,8552.msg190980.html#msg190980)
Chapter 3.3 - Columns - Reply 157 (http://www.modelenginemaker.com/index.php/topic,8552.msg191121.html#msg191121)
Chapter 3.4 - Bolsters and Side Bearings - Reply 170 (http://www.modelenginemaker.com/index.php/topic,8552.msg191521.html#msg191521)
Chapter 3.5 - Tie Bars and Arch Bars - Reply 201 (http://www.modelenginemaker.com/index.php/topic,8552.msg193364.html#msg193364)
Chapter 3.6 - Coil Springs - Reply 234 (http://www.modelenginemaker.com/index.php/topic,8552.msg195959.html#msg195959)

Chapter 4: Tender Frame
Chapter 4.1 - Side Sills - Reply 251 (http://www.modelenginemaker.com/index.php/topic,8552.msg196863.html#msg196863)
Chapter 4.2 – Front End Sill and Rear End Sill - Reply 262 (http://www.modelenginemaker.com/index.php/topic,8552.msg198276.html#msg198276)
Chapter 4.3 – Front and Rear Bolster - Reply 296 (http://www.modelenginemaker.com/index.php/topic,8552.msg199037.html#msg199037)
Chapter 4.4 – Drawbar Pocket and Drawbar - Reply 298 (http://www.modelenginemaker.com/index.php/topic,8552.msg199408.html#msg199408)
Chapter 4.5 – Front Steps - Reply 303 (http://www.modelenginemaker.com/index.php/topic,8552.msg200154.html#msg200154)
Chapter 4.6 – Step Brackets - Reply 323 (http://www.modelenginemaker.com/index.php/topic,8552.msg201312.html#msg201312)
Chapter 4.7 – Rear Coupler Pocket - Reply 329 (http://www.modelenginemaker.com/index.php/topic,8552.msg201612.html#msg201612)
Chapter 4.8 – Foot Board - Reply 342 (http://www.modelenginemaker.com/index.php/topic,8552.msg202387.html#msg202387)
Chapter 4.9 – Center Pins and Drawbar Pin - Reply 348 (http://www.modelenginemaker.com/index.php/topic,8552.msg203066.html#msg203066)




Welcome everyone, to my introductory post for my new build of Kozo’s Pennsy A3 Switcher!

I’m sure this is no surprise to any one, since I’ve been talking about it, asking questions about it, and doing some pretty serious planning on it for well over a year now.  But, this is my formal intro to my build thread.  So, if you’re too disappointed, please feel free to skip on past to the next post.  I promise not to be offended.

As an intro post, here is my obligatory photo of what I’m shooting for.  This is the cover photo from Kozo Hiraoka’s book “The Pennsylvania A3 Switcher”. 
(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/001a-Introduction-1-DSC_4895.jpg)

The final engine will be 38” long, 10” high, and 7” wide.  It is a  3.5” gauge, 1:16 scale (3/4” to a foot) model of an 0-4-0 Pennsylvania Switcher Type A3.  The drivers are 3.25” diameter and the cylinder bore is 7/8” with a stroke of 1-1/4".  It will have Walshaerts type valve gear, will be coal fired with a running pressure of 100psi.  Engine plus tender will weigh-in at about 62 lbs.

So, this will be quite a monster for me!  More than double the size of the steam tractor I did. And a MUCH more serious steam project than I’ve taken on in the past.  But I’m ready and very excited for the challenge!  And isn’t that half the battle right there? (He says with naïve optimism :)).

With that lengthy introduction, let me now introduce you to my BOM spreadsheet.  Kozo’s book is amazingly complete and gives excellent instructions on all his fabrication techniques.  But!  It does not include a bill of materials!  So, what does any self-respecting anal-retentive engineering type do?  Create a spreadsheet, of course.

I’ve attached my spreadsheet to this post.

If anyone is ever interested in doing this build, I would think having the BOM available would be helpful.  I went through the book, entered every piece of stock as specified by Kozo, broken down by section and part number within the section (and often sub element of a part within a section).  It includes all fasteners, jigs and the sacrificial screws Kozo uses to hold parts together while silver soldering.  That’s the first sheet. Its labeled “A3 Switcher BOM” and has something like 850 unique lines.

The second sheet is the Materials List.  This has one entry for each type & size of material used and summarized the total number of inches (for bar, rod, hex) or square inches (for sheet material) that are needed for ALL parts using that type of material.  it has more than 350 lines, but only 260 something of them ended up being used in my final version of the BOM.

The actual materials listed are based on “My Material”, not on the type originally specified by Kozo.  He did almost everything with 360 Brass.  I substituted a lot of 1018 (CRS) or 12L14, or even Stainless in some places.  But I did leave Kozo’s originally specified material listed on the first sheet.  And someone could move to using that material if they wanted to.

The completion of my BOM spreadsheet took me almost a year of background work, so was no small task in itself.

Late last week I did an inventory of my stock on hand against this Materials List.  Then I entered that into the spreadsheet and it told me how much of what I needed to purchase.  After that, I went through the spreadsheet and did some more substitutions and combining of lines.  For example, if I need 1” of 5/16” brass, I’d look at changing it to 12L14 or if it needed to be brass (because it comes into contact with water) I would just combine it with the 3/8” brass.  I made some fancy columns to help me combine lines.  Not intuitive, but if anyone's interested I'd be happy to explain it.
(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/001a-Introduction-2-DSC_4862.jpg)

Last weekend, I spent hours placing a big metal order.  I ended up going mainly with On Line Metals, and with Speedy Metals.  On Line Metals generally had better pricing on 1018, Stainless, and Brass, where as Speedy Metals had better prices on 12L14 and had a larger selection of sizes of 1018 than On Line Metals. Unfortunately, shipping from Speedy Metals is 2x more than On Line Metals because they are on the far side of the country from me. But I tried to get it all these two larger orders.  Shipping hurt, but it could have been worse!

And yesterday a bunch of my metal started showing up! This was the bulk of the order from On Line Metals.  Speedy Metals won’t arrive till next week.
(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/001a-Introduction-3-DSC_4869.jpg)

After opining the containers and comparing to the shipping invoice (all correct, BTW) here’s what I’ve gotten so far.  And this is probably about two thirds of what I ordered.
(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/001a-Introduction-4-DSC_4873.jpg)

In addition, there’s a bunch of fasteners, non-metal parts and various new tools I’ll need for this build.  I also kept a list of tools I needed to order for this build.  That’s also one of the sheets in my spreadsheet.  Here’s what’s arrived from that list so far:
(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/001a-Introduction-5-DSC_4907.jpg)

Kozo uses a TON of random sized threads in his build.  He uses 5-40 and 5-44.  He uses 8-32 and 8-36.  I considered standardizing on taps I already had, but decided it would be fun to get some new taps anyway.  And I figure he had some reason for using the finer pitched threads, so why not follow his lead, since I’m game for buying another half dozen taps and dies :)

Then one other thing I bought for this build, and am just a little too excited about, is a set of letter & number punches.  I have a very cheap set (cost $10 at a harbor-freight look-alike place) but they are so cheap that they make poor letters. And any of them I’ve used more than once are already getting so flat its hard to read what gets punched.  This is a set of CH Hansen Letter and Number Punches.  It cost significantly more and had quite good reviews with people saying the punches held up under actual use.  And I’ll say they look much better than my cheapy punches.
(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/001a-Introduction-6-DSC_4908.jpg)
Kozo recommends punching identifying numbers & marks into each piece so that you can get it re-assembled back into the same spot it was designed for. I'm going to try and do that too.


So, wish me well on my next multi-year voyage in the world of Steam Model Engineering!

Thanks,
Kim
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: b.lindsey on October 19, 2018, 02:27:37 AM
This is exciting Kim!!!  I am along for the ride as always!!

Bill
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: crueby on October 19, 2018, 02:30:31 AM
Ooohhh!  Excellent!!!


Great prep work, and nice pile of future swarf. These big projects seem too daunting at first, but one part at a time and its a lot of fun to see come together.


Really looking forward to seeing you go on this one.
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Flyboy Jim on October 19, 2018, 03:21:24 AM
Kim..........this is going to be another great build thread to watch!  :ThumbsUp:

Jim
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: 10KPete on October 19, 2018, 03:27:08 AM
 :whoohoo: :popcorn: :popcorn: :ThumbsUp: :ThumbsUp: :popcorn: :popcorn: :whoohoo:

I don't know whether to laugh or cry.  I've had that book on the shelf right above my desk for over 10 years.

As I age I think of selling it on.

 :cheers:

Pete
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Kim on October 19, 2018, 05:25:12 AM
Thanks guys, it will be great having you along for the build!

:whoohoo: :popcorn: :popcorn: :ThumbsUp: :ThumbsUp: :popcorn: :popcorn: :whoohoo:

I don't know whether to laugh or cry.  I've had that book on the shelf right above my desk for over 10 years.

As I age I think of selling it on.

 :cheers:

Pete
Pete,
You should start your own Pennsy Switcher now!  We could do parallel builds!  Wouldn't that be fun?
I'd love to see you do that :)  :ThumbsUp:
Kim
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Ye-Ole Steam Dude on October 19, 2018, 08:01:04 AM
Hello Kim,

Well I'm on board too, this should be another great ride.  :popcorn:

Have a great day,
Thomas
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Jo on October 19, 2018, 10:21:23 AM
 8)

I do parts lists for my engine as well but I decided it was best not to write down how much it cost  :paranoia: I prefer to just tick that I have it available 

I also like to mark off the date I complete each part - it shows how quickly the engine came together (or how slowly/how long the build gaps were  :facepalm2: )

Jo
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Admiral_dk on October 19, 2018, 12:40:05 PM
Hello Kim

I must admit that I really haven't really commented much in your excellent tractor build (there has been plenty others, so not much need).

I do make BOM for the products we make at work, but - WOW - what a list and amount of work you have put into this one  :praise2:

I will certainly follow this build too  :cheers:  :popcorn:

Best wishes

Per
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Dave Otto on October 19, 2018, 01:59:56 PM
Very cool Kim, I will be looking forward to following your progress.


Dave
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Tennessee Whiskey on October 19, 2018, 02:03:17 PM
Off to a great start Kim. I'll be riding along on this one also.

Whiskey
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Kim on October 19, 2018, 02:44:34 PM
Thanks everyone!
Yeah, I'm pretty pumped about this one.   :cartwheel:


I do parts lists for my engine as well but I decided it was best not to write down how much it cost  :paranoia: I prefer to just tick that I have it available 

I also like to mark off the date I complete each part - it shows how quickly the engine came together (or how slowly/how long the build gaps were  :facepalm2: )
It did give me pause; putting the cost of materials in the sheet.  But it also helped me make some material trade-offs.  Some of the columns I've hidden were a comparison between a "Mostly Brass" model and my hodge-podge version. I hid the columns because I stopped keeping it up at some point and I didn't want to spend the time to fix it.  I figure I saved about 35-40% in cost by avoiding gratuitous use of brass :).  Don't get me wrong - there will still be a lot of brass!  But dramatically less than Kozo uses!


Kim
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Florian Eberhard on October 19, 2018, 06:40:22 PM
Hey Kim - i am checking in too!  :popcorn: :popcorn: :DrinkPint:

I imagine Kozo used brass because it is easier to machine than steel. Especially with small hobby machines. But there's nothing wrong about using other materials if it makes sense or if it doesn't need to be brass.

Now i guess we have to wait for your first swarf pictures.  ;D

Florian
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Kim on October 19, 2018, 08:26:27 PM
Thanks Florian!

Yeah, it shouldn't be too long before I start making Pennsy Switcher swarf.  Still a bit more on the steam tractor to finish up, but that's getting every so close!

Thanks,
Kim
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: crueby on October 19, 2018, 08:55:03 PM
Swarf!

Swarf!

Swarf!

And tractor running video too, of course!   :Lol:
 :cheers:
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: ShopShoe on October 20, 2018, 01:42:47 PM
Jo said:

"I do parts lists for my engine as well but I decided it was best not to write down how much it cost"

When I was restoring cars one of my mentors said:

"Never, NEVER keep track of what it costs or the time involved: It will make you want to do something different."

ShopShoe (Still only keeping track some of the time.)
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: scc on October 20, 2018, 09:52:55 PM
Kim,   I'm really looking forward to a video of your tractor running......Regards         Terry
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Kim on October 22, 2018, 04:01:12 AM
Thanks Terry, me too!  I posted a bunch of pictures of it today, but no steaming video. Not yet anyway :)


Over the weekend I did a little more preparatory work toward my new steam locomotive project.

One thing I did was to change the oil in the lathe.  That took a while and was a messy job.  But its been needing to be done, so now its done. And it gets charged to the Pennsy :)

I also checked in some additional materials.  Metals On Line shipped the Bronze stock I needed, plus the 3/4" copper tube to be used in the boiler.  That big hunk of bronze (2” diameter on the left) is for the cylinders. It wasn't cheap! But it's still about half the price of the castings.  And this way I can screw up several times and still have extra material left over!
(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/001b-Introduction-1-DSC_4916.jpg)

Another thing I did was to experiment on how to make copies of the parts drawings.  I like to have copies of the drawings so that I can have them with me at the machines and see the dimensions I’m working toward.  And of course, I don’t expect the book to remain pristine, but I don’t really want to have it close to production where oil and yuck can get splashed on it.

For other builds I’ve just photocopied the main drawings.  But it can be difficult to hold a book on a photocopier. And with this one, there’s literally hundreds of drawings I’ll want to print out over the course of the build.  So my solution to this problem was to see if I could find a scanning app for my phone that would work. And as it turns out, CamScanner seems to do a pretty good job. You take a picture of the page you want to ‘scan’, and then outline the section of the image you want to extract.  Based on the outline, it rotates and scales the picture to fix keystoning and other image artifacts. Then it filters out the lighting variations to make a nice, clean, black & white image and converts it to a PDF. Here are a few samples that I’ve tried:
(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/001b-Introduction-2-DSC_4919.jpg)

It’s still not like having CAD drawings, but it’s a heck of a lot easier than photocopying each page, that’s for sure. Here’s what they look like printed out.
(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/001b-Introduction-3-DSC_4986.jpg)

The last thing I did today was to go through the pile of screws, fasteners, and miscellaneous hardware and put them in my nifty dividers for little parts.
(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/001b-Introduction-4-DSC_4984.jpg)

You were supposed to be able to see that these are full of various screws and such, but the glare on the plano boxes seems to prevent you from seeing inside. Trust me, there’s a lot of goodies in there now :)

One more significant shipment of metal this week (hopefully tomorrow) and I should be ready to launch forth!

Kim
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: MJM460 on October 22, 2018, 12:37:56 PM
Hi Kim,

Looks like a great start to another amazing build.  I will be following.

If you use an iPhone, the new "Notes" Ap has a great feature to incorporate a document using the camera.  It squares up the document and everything.  You can save it then print it.  Incredibly easy to use and seems to give a good result.

MJM460
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: b.lindsey on October 22, 2018, 02:14:04 PM
Kim, thanks for the   tip on CamScanner. I can see where that would be very useful. With my own 2D drawings I can save them as a .pdf file and that works. This sounds ideal for getting other printed material onto the phone though. WIll be checking that out.

Bill
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Kim on October 28, 2018, 02:10:45 AM
Chapter 2.1 Tender Wheels

What is the saying?  “The journey of 1000 shop sessions begins with the first swarf.”
Or something like that, right? :)

Today I started cutting metal on my Pennsy Switcher!

Earlier in the week the last of my big shipments came in (this one from Speedy Metals).  It had all my big 12L14 bar, which is what I needed to get started.
(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/002a-TenderWheels-1-DSC_4988.jpg)

Because the 2 3/8” round 12L14 stock was destined to be tender wheels.  I needed to slice off eight 1/2" pucks.  That little HF saw really earned his keep today!
(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/002a-TenderWheels-2-DSC_4991.jpg)

And here they are.  All eight of them.  These are going to become the wheels for the tender:
(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/002a-TenderWheels-3-DSC_5000.jpg)

(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/002a-TenderWheels-4-DSC_5004.jpg)

Not a ton of progress, but it’s a first step.

I also cleaned my assembly table, as you can see in the pictures here.  Something to keep me busy while the saw was working away.  There’s still a little more ‘between project’ cleaning to be done, but it will happen over time.

Now, to make those pucks look like train wheels!
Kim

Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: crueby on October 28, 2018, 02:25:01 AM
Great start, going to be watching along! You are right, its a big project, but just a lot of manageable small parts.


 :popcorn: :popcorn: :popcorn:
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: 10KPete on October 28, 2018, 02:49:55 AM
Hot dang, first cuts.

Now I'm very curious: why 3.5" gauge?

 :ThumbsUp: :popcorn: :popcorn:

Pete
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Kim on October 28, 2018, 05:06:33 AM
Why 3.5" gauge?  Good question Pete!

Well, partly because that's what Kozo's plans are for. He does show modifications for a 7.5" gauge (1.5" scale) model.  But I opted for the 1:16 scale (3/4") model, which is big enough to be fun, but small enough to be nearly manageable.  It will be over 3' long, and weigh more than 60 pounds.  Luckily, that will be in two smaller pieces - the tender and the engine.  But still a sizable chunk.  And another reason is the cost of the materials.  I opted for less expensive materials than Kozo specified (i.e. I'm not using all brass) but even with that, I had to save up quite a while to afford my recent metal spending spree.  It would have been MUCH more if I opted for a larger scale.

Maybe I could have gone smaller, but then things would get too small to suit my tastes (or more specifically, my talent :)).

Guess we'll see how it all comes out!

I don't really have any plans to build a 3.5" track in my back yard or anything.  I doubt this locomotive will ever run much.  It's just a fun project for me to build.

Kim
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: 10KPete on October 28, 2018, 08:43:29 AM
Well, I asked because those same questions have been rattling around in my gourd for a few years now with precious few solid answers yet. I'm 70 and by the time I could finish a loco it could be too big to handle! Hmmmmm... :thinking:

Oh, and I really like your new avatar.

Thanks!

Pete
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: kvom on October 28, 2018, 10:12:00 AM
As a builder of the 7.5" gauge version I will follow your adventure with interest.  There are several websites that list some of the few errors in the plans, so I'd  familiarize yourself with those.

You might want to check out Friends Models for castings of the loco drivers and cylinders.
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: b.lindsey on October 28, 2018, 12:18:15 PM
Great to see you off on this new project Kim. Everything you learned on the traction engine will surely be of help here as well!!

Bill
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: 90LX_Notch on October 28, 2018, 02:44:27 PM
Oh yeah, I'll be following this one Kim.

-Bob
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Kim on October 28, 2018, 04:52:45 PM
Hey Chris, thanks!  Didn't mean to overlook you last night in my reply!

Pete,
Think you should dive right in and do one of these with me! I think that would be just too fun!

Thanks for following along, Bill and Bob!
Kim
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Kim on October 28, 2018, 04:58:24 PM
As a builder of the 7.5" gauge version I will follow your adventure with interest.  There are several websites that list some of the few errors in the plans, so I'd  familiarize yourself with those.

You might want to check out Friends Models for castings of the loco drivers and cylinders.

Hi kvom,
Where are these websites with the plan errors listed?
I've done some research and haven't run across that yet.  Sounds like it could be really helpful!

I have found the Friends Models site, and I've elected to fabricate the cylinders and the drivers.  Partly for cost reasons, and partly because I want the chalenge.

Thanks for the pointers,
Kim
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: fumopuc on October 28, 2018, 05:14:02 PM
Hi Kim, good to see your start of a new projekt. I will following along.
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: kvom on October 28, 2018, 06:08:56 PM
I can't find the error site now myself either.   :shrug:

Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: 10KPete on October 28, 2018, 06:19:26 PM
Has anyone pulled all the errata together in to one document? As popular as this loco is I would think it might have been done??

Thanks,

Pete
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Kim on November 04, 2018, 12:57:23 AM
Moving forward on the wheels for the tender.

I mounted one of the blanks into my 3” Taig 4 jaw chuck (I have an adaptor for this chuck that I’ve made for other projects and it works quite well). I indicated it using the outside radius to get it fairly centered in the chuck. Then I faced off one side, nice and clean.
(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/002b-TenderWheels-01-DSC_5006.jpg)

Next step was to pan out a good chunk on the wheel.  This needed a 15o slope on each side of the scooped-out section.  To get this, I ground a tool with a 30o angle with a nice broad rounded tip.
(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/002b-TenderWheels-02-DSC_5013.jpg)

Then went about panning the first wheel. It seemed to be going quite well and was looking really good, except I noticed things sounded funny toward the outside of the section.  I soon discovered that the edge of the tool was interfering terribly with the outside radius of the cut-out section.
(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/002b-TenderWheels-03-DSC_5009.jpg)

And of course I had one of those “Duh…” moments.  All you experienced guys saw this coming from a mile away, I’m sure.  But I had to discover it on my own apparently. :Doh:

So, I modified the tool and created a lot more clearance on the left side of the tip.  I needed to get about 1/8” deep with the tool, so I cut the clearance that far back (plus some safety margin).
(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/002b-TenderWheels-04-DSC_5017.jpg)

With that modification, things worked MUCH better!  And I think I can still pull this one out and NOT have to scrap this wheel (at least, not for this bonehead move.  Maybe for the next one :)).

With the sloping edge of the tool, it was kind challenging to get the correct width of the carved-out area. In addition to the sloping tool, it was difficult to get a good datum on the very center of the wheel. So, I did a ‘good eyeball’ estimate and carved out most of the area, leaving a nice buffer on each side.  Once I got to the correct depth (1/8”) I snuck up on the inside and outside radius, measuring with the dial calipers till I got the correct inside (5/8”) and outside (1 3/4") diameters.
(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/002b-TenderWheels-05-DSC_5015.jpg)

With that completed, next was to make the 5/16” axle hole.  I started this with a center and then drilling a 1/4" hole all the way through.
(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/002b-TenderWheels-06-DSC_5020.jpg)

Then, to ensure that the axle hole was perpendicular to the freshly machined side of the wheel, I bored the hole out to just under 5/16” ( went to about 0.304”, leaving about 8 thousandths for the reamer).
(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/002b-TenderWheels-07-DSC_5021.jpg)

Having ensured the hole was perpendicular, I then reamed it out with a 5/16” reamer:
(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/002b-TenderWheels-08-DSC_5024.jpg)

Having completed all operations on the first side, I flipped the wheel around in the 4 jaw and then centered it using the freshly cut axle hole.
(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/002b-TenderWheels-09-DSC_5028.jpg)

Next op was to face off this side and cut it down to the correct width for the wheel (7/16”). 
(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/002b-TenderWheels-10-DSC_5031.jpg)

And repeat the panning operation on this side (as described above).
(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/002b-TenderWheels-11-DSC_5032.jpg)

And that is the first series of operation for each wheel blank.  After I get all 8 wheels to this stage, then I’ll work on turning the flange and the tread.

I got two wheels turned up to this point.  I think I’m getting faster.  First one took 4-5 hours because I had to grind the panning tool (and then re-grind it to fix the relief problem) and figure out how to do all the steps.  But the second one only took 90 min or so (I didn’t actually time it, but it was much faster).  I’m thinking they’ll get even faster, but it will still take some time.  I’ve got 6 more of them to go!

Anyway, here’s my progress so far, showing the two completed up to this point and one of the ‘blanks’ just for fun.
(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/002b-TenderWheels-12-DSC_5037.jpg)

Thanks for taking a look!
Kim
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: crueby on November 04, 2018, 01:01:43 AM
Very well done!


 :popcorn: :popcorn: :popcorn:
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: b.lindsey on November 04, 2018, 01:02:34 AM
Hey, that is some good progress Kim. The time should come down a lot on the successive wheels.

Bill
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: 10KPete on November 04, 2018, 01:17:44 AM
Sweet!

 :popcorn: :ThumbsUp: :popcorn:

Pete
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Kim on November 04, 2018, 01:38:55 AM
Thanks Chris, Bill, and Pete!

I've never done 8 repetitions of something before.  The most I've done is 5 - for Rudy's Radial Five.  Luckily, things will go down to fewer repetitions after the tender wheels & trucks!

Kim
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Tin Falcon on November 04, 2018, 02:15:18 AM
kim  and all  I came across this pbs (Parts breakdown system ) published by martin of the MMX project. it is a free download an engineering tool to manage complex projects. Try it or not but looks interesting could com in handy.


 https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1eKW_-ygHTu2z4inSSGPFnjAoIolORW19d-Xu-uhDw9E/edit#gid=0 (https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1eKW_-ygHTu2z4inSSGPFnjAoIolORW19d-Xu-uhDw9E/edit#gid=0)
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Kim on November 04, 2018, 05:05:37 AM
That does look interesting!  That looks somewhat similar to a project numbering system that was used by a company I used to work at.  Each project was given a 4 digit project number, then there was a prefix that indicated what documentation this was for the project, and a post fix for revision control.  The prefix was something like - 100 series was drawings, 200 series was specs, 300 was something else (I can't remember them all) and 900's were for the BOMs.  It was very hierarchical too.

That spreadsheet looks pretty interesting.  Thanks for sharing!
Kim
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Tin Falcon on November 04, 2018, 12:17:50 PM
You are welcome Like I mentioned this is an offshoot of the Marble machine x project.  Wintergaten you tube Chanel. This aspect of the project is described in episode 57 of the build. The guy has been IIrc about a year /year and a half on this project and hopes to have it pretty much wrapped up by Christmas.  Not only is he building this machine but he is designing / redesigning most of the parts as he goes. 
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Kim on November 04, 2018, 02:57:25 PM
Wow! I had to go google that.  Pretty impressive! :)
Kim
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Kim on November 11, 2018, 02:58:56 PM
This is a short update representing a lot of work.  I completed the first phase on all eight tender wheels:
(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/002c-TenderWheels-1-DSC_5040.jpg)

Next will be to add the flange & tread to the wheels!

Thanks for taking a look,
Kim
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: zeeprogrammer on November 11, 2018, 03:28:27 PM
You started this while I was on my road trip. I've been looking forward to catching up.

What fun!  :ThumbsUp:
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: crueby on November 11, 2018, 03:37:22 PM
Great start, looking forward to seeing the build!
 :popcorn: :popcorn: :popcorn:
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Dave Otto on November 11, 2018, 04:03:09 PM
The wheels look very nice Kim!

Dave
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Kim on November 11, 2018, 06:11:01 PM
Thanks Zee, and Chris!

I've been looking forward to it for a longtime too! :)
Kim
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: kvom on November 12, 2018, 12:02:47 AM
Now we need to see the other side of the wheels.   :mischief:
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: crueby on November 12, 2018, 12:34:19 AM
Now we need to see the other side of the wheels.   :mischief:
And the bin of spares...


 :cheers:
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Kim on November 12, 2018, 05:06:56 AM
Now we need to see the other side of the wheels.   :mischief:
Kvom, that picture shows both sides - half of them are right-side-up, and the other half are upside-down.  :Jester:

And the bin of spares...
 :cheers:
Yeah, didn't show the recycle bin (yet). There's only ONE puck in the reuse bin - so far. I mis-read my dial caliper (thought it said 0.775" and it really said 0.675, and I cut the hub way too small). I figured I'd get through the next series of steps on the wheels then show my rejects.  Not that I think there will be any more.  No, of course not.  But I don't want to Jinx it!  ;)

Kim
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Ye-Ole Steam Dude on November 12, 2018, 09:50:04 AM
Hello Kim,

Looking real good and you are making good progress so far. I enjoy seeing parts beginning to stack up, large piles of completed parts is a good thing.

Have a great day,
Thomas
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Kim on November 18, 2018, 03:13:13 PM
Thanks Thomas! :)

This week I made some more progress on the tender wheels.

First, I made a 5/16” mandrel to hold the wheels.  A fairly simple turning operation.  Here I just finished single-pointing the 5/16”-24 threads:
(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/002d-TenderWheels-1-DSC_5042.jpg)

With that complete, I mounted one of the wheels in the mandrel and turned it to the final outside dimension of 2 1/4". 
(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/002d-TenderWheels-2-DSC_5048.jpg)

Then I cut the general shape of the tread, but no tapering (yet).
(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/002d-TenderWheels-3-DSC_5049.jpg)

Then, I did it seven more times!
(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/002d-TenderWheels-4-DSC_5054.jpg)

The next step will be to taper the tread and the flange, which should finish up the tender wheels.

Thanks for stopping by!
Kim

Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: cnr6400 on November 18, 2018, 04:25:59 PM
They look great Kim, nicely done.
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: zeeprogrammer on November 18, 2018, 04:31:46 PM
Yes, they look great.

Why didn't you do the tapering after turning the general shape?
Any concerns about keeping it concentric?
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: kvom on November 18, 2018, 05:29:26 PM
You might consider buying/making a form tool for the flanges, and you'll have 4 more to do for the loco.  Note that the flat part of the tread needs to be at a slight angle. 

http://ibls.org/files/Standards/IBLS%20Wheel%20Standard%203534DG%20Gauge.pdf

If you do decide to machine them manually, I suggest doing the same cut on all wheels at one time for consistency.
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Kim on November 18, 2018, 06:24:54 PM
Thanks Cnr, Zee, and Kvom,
Zee, the reason I didn't do tapersthis time through is that I'm going to have to reposition the compound slide a few times for the tapers.  And as Kvom hesaid, I want all the tapers to be consistent. So I'll set the taper once then do all eight wheels. If I did it now, I'd have to reposition the tool lots of times, and likely not get the same taper!

Kim
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: gerritv on November 18, 2018, 06:59:24 PM
Lovely work. Always fun plotting repetitive parts sequence of ops.

Gerrit
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Kim on November 23, 2018, 10:39:37 PM
Thanks Gerrit!

The next step on the Tender Wheels was to angle the tread and the flange.

Kozo recommend that you blue (or somehow color) in the tread and flange so that its easier to see when you cut close to the corner.  So, that’s what I did. After which, I set the compound at a 10o angle and cut the tread on the first wheel.
(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/002e-TenderWheels-1-DSC_5056.jpg)

Did this seven more times.
Then I readjusted the compound to be 10o for the front side of the flange, and cut all eight of those:
(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/002e-TenderWheels-2-DSC_5061.jpg)

Next, was another compound adjustment to cut the 10o angle on the back side of the flange.
(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/002e-TenderWheels-3-DSC_5066.jpg)

And finally, I used a file to round over the top of the flange a bit, and to take the edge off the front of the tread.
(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/002e-TenderWheels-4-DSC_5071.jpg)

Here’s a shot of all eight completed tender wheels:
(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/002e-TenderWheels-5-DSC_5077.jpg)

Before I'm all done with the tender wheels I need to clean them up a little more and paint them red!  I’m going to do some of the painting as I go this time.  Can’t leave all the fun for the end, right?   :Jester:  (I don’t really like painting, just in case you didn’t know that.)

Thanks,
Kim
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Dave Otto on November 23, 2018, 10:45:47 PM
The wheels look very nice Kim, but I'm curious about the 10 degree taper, was that a typo; I see 3 degrees on the print underneath the wheels?


Dave
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: b.lindsey on November 23, 2018, 10:55:11 PM
Same question. I don't have the A3 book but both the Shay and climax also show a 3 degree tread angle as does kvom's reference.

Bill
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Kim on November 23, 2018, 11:07:19 PM
 :facepalm:    :facepalm:     :facepalm:     :facepalm:    :facepalm:     :facepalm:
Nope, not a type-o. Wish it was.  I cut them at 10o, though it clearly says 3o.
 :hammerbash:

That kinda blows my last few weeks of work.  And an expensive chunk of 12L14....
  :wallbang:

Well, now the question - do I do-em again?  Or decide that my slightly over-tapered tread on these wheels won't matter a smidge, since this will never be used on a track in any serious way. It's more of a mantle piece for me.

Hmm... how noticeable do you think that will be in a finished model?  Will people be shocked and appalled at the cones I'm using for wheels?  Or will it not even be noticed.  :slap:

 :Doh:

Guess I'll think about that for a bit and do something else for a while...

Kim  :facepalm2:
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: crueby on November 23, 2018, 11:16:25 PM
Ouch! I hate when very carefully, precisely, doing the wrong thing.   :zap:




One other option, recutting the bevel to 3 degrees, and trimming the flange. How much would it reduce the OD of the wheels? Too much?
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: kvom on November 23, 2018, 11:16:53 PM
The taper is just to keep the wheels on the track going around a curve, and when on a straight track it won't be noticeable.  I wouldn't scrap them.  You can recut them at 3 degrees and then adjust the flange.  Wheels will be a bit smaller but again not a big deal.
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: b.lindsey on November 23, 2018, 11:22:10 PM
Or you could cut the treads square again, heat shrink a tire on each and cut the proper angle. It probably won't matter for display purposes but I would sure be wanting to run it after investing all that building time.

Bill
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: 10KPete on November 23, 2018, 11:27:10 PM
I agree that the angle won't really matter. Nor does the exact size. And the fix is not hard if you do as Bill suggests. I don't know how many times something like this has set me on my heels until I've had time to fully appreciate the impact....

Ouch!

Pete
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Dave Otto on November 23, 2018, 11:29:41 PM
Sorry Kim that's a bummer. :(
If it were me I would either repair them or remake them, I really doubt that I would leave them as is. As Chris indicated maybe you could just re-cut the wheel and reduce the diameter accordianlly. How much would this be on the radius? Maybe not enough to matter.

Dave
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: zeeprogrammer on November 23, 2018, 11:47:14 PM
That's a bummer and I'm betting you're still kicking yourself over it.
Set it aside. They can wait. Do some other things (i.e. parts) for a while.
The answer may/will come later.

Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Kim on November 24, 2018, 12:17:46 AM
Thank you all for the commiserations and the suggestions.  I do appreciate it.

Yeah.  I'm feelin' kinda irritated with the whole thing at the moment.  I'll probably just go away and try not to think about it for a while.  If history is any guide, I'll probably feel less down about it tomorrow.  But right now, its pretty much taken the wind out of my sails...

 :'(
Kim
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: zeeprogrammer on November 24, 2018, 12:23:49 AM
Yeah.  I'm feelin' kinda irritated with the whole thing at the moment.

Nah. Just the wheels. Don't forget about all the good feelings you had with other parts.

I'll probably just go away and try not to think about it for a while.

Hard to do, but yeah.  ;D

I've stopped projects for less. Don't do that.

I should listen to myself sometimes.
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: kvom on November 24, 2018, 12:38:15 AM
Assuming you cut the taper so that the flange diameter is intact, then the diameter of the face of the wheel is already a bit smaller.  But cutting the proper taper won't change that; only the flange diameter will end up being reduced.  Based on this and the drawings, I calculated that the wheels are smaller by .049" than per plan.
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: crueby on November 24, 2018, 12:41:50 AM
Assuming you cut the taper so that the flange diameter is intact, then the diameter of the face of the wheel is already a bit smaller.  But cutting the proper taper won't change that; only the flange diameter will end up being reduced.  Based on this and the drawings, I calculated that the wheels are smaller by .049" than per plan.
So it scales out to  wheels with a bit of wear that the maintenance shop refaced. Realistic!
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: b.lindsey on November 24, 2018, 12:52:53 AM
If that is correct then the tender would only sit .0245" lower. Negligible for display or running. Sounds like a plan to me.

Bill
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Dave Otto on November 24, 2018, 12:55:42 AM
I did the same thing and came up with .043" on the radius, but I was only working from the dimensions that I could see in Kim's photos.

Dave
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: kvom on November 24, 2018, 02:30:06 AM
I meant to say the radius. 

Measurements done using Draftsght.
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Kim on November 24, 2018, 03:10:51 AM
Yes, some time away doing other things was a good idea.  Helps put the world into perspective ;D

Yes, Dave and Kvom, guys have it right.  It would be about 0.043" short on the radius, or 0.086" smaller in diameter (not quite 3/32").  Since the inner diameter is SUPPOSED to be 2 1/16", that would be about 4% smaller.

Now much will that bother me?

I might play with one wheel tomorrow and see how it looks. But right now, I'm kinda thinking that the next several weeks of my shop time will be making 8 more wheels!  But it will go better this time!  And think of the cool paper weights I'll have to sit around my desk?   :-\

How would I learn to pay better attention to the plans if I didn't make stupid mistakes, right?
And it keeps me humble.
Kim
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: crueby on November 24, 2018, 03:19:56 AM
You could use the 8 practice wheels to make a set of ore cars to pull.


Or some windstorm safe poker chips!
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Florian Eberhard on November 24, 2018, 07:19:30 AM
Hi Bill

Why not machining the wheels down to square and fit new rims on each one? That should at least safe half the work!
You don.'t even need to heat shrink them - I would just use some loctite and glue those rims on the wheel.
That is in the end even more realistic bexcause thats how wheels were made - except the fitting method.

Florian
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Steve17 on November 24, 2018, 09:41:19 AM
I would try turning one to the correct angle and just see what it looks like. The only bit that would give the game away would be the thickness of the tyre.

Steve
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Kim on November 24, 2018, 05:31:22 PM
Why not machining the wheels down to square and fit new rims on each one? That should at least safe half the work!
You don.'t even need to heat shrink them - I would just use some loctite and glue those rims on the wheel.
That is in the end even more realistic bexcause thats how wheels were made - except the fitting method.

Florian

So, if I do as you and Bill suggested, and machine the wheel flat up to the flange, then put a ring on it, that sounds reasonable, but where do I get a 2 1/16" outside diameter (1 13/16" ID), 13/32" wide ring? If I make them out of the 12L14 round stock, I'll be using almost as much material and turning 90% of it into swarf.  Is that really easier than just starting over?  Maybe, or maybe not...

Kim

Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Dave Otto on November 24, 2018, 05:36:59 PM
You could use some DOM tubing but that may also cost as much as the solid 12L14.
https://www.speedymetals.com/pc-3504-8242-2-14-od-x-375-wall-dom-steel-tube.aspx

Dave
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: b.lindsey on November 24, 2018, 05:45:26 PM
Kim, if you can live with the reduced diameter of the wheels as others have calculated, that would seem the best option other than starting over. The wheels will look right at least.

Bill
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Kim on November 24, 2018, 05:49:33 PM
I would try turning one to the correct angle and just see what it looks like. The only bit that would give the game away would be the thickness of the tyre.

Steve

Yes, this is another strong contender.  If I do this, the whole wheel will be 0.084" smaller than its supposed to be and the tender will sit 0.042" lower than designed.  That's almost 3/64".  Maybe not a big deal, but I'm not sure I will be happy.

Ah... decisions, decisions...
Kim
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Kim on November 24, 2018, 05:59:34 PM
You could use some DOM tubing but that may also cost as much as the solid 12L14.
https://www.speedymetals.com/pc-3504-8242-2-14-od-x-375-wall-dom-steel-tube.aspx

Dave

Interesting idea, Dave.  But you're right.  Price wise, its pretty close. And that DOM tubing is no fun to machine.  Its very tough and stringy.

Kim
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Kim on November 24, 2018, 06:01:49 PM
Kim, if you can live with the reduced diameter of the wheels as others have calculated, that would seem the best option other than starting over. The wheels will look right at least.

Bill

Yeah, I'm not sure if I can live with it.  But I may give it a try on one wheel and see how it looks.   It would be the first step to turning it flat for a tire re-fit anyway.  And it wouldn't matter if I decided to remake them.

Kim


Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: b.lindsey on November 24, 2018, 06:20:45 PM
Every suggestion made has pros and cons of course. I hate it happened, but sure you will do what works for you and that's what matters really.

Bill
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Steve17 on November 24, 2018, 07:32:10 PM
Kim, I totally understand about the tender being low but that assumes the loco is at the top of its travel. Above all it's how you feel and looking at it on display.

Steve.
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Ye-Ole Steam Dude on November 24, 2018, 08:35:19 PM
Hello Kim,

Like Bill, I sure hate that this happened but ( my 2-cents worth ) you must do whatever makes you happy. As hard as you worked on the last project and look how beautiful it turned out....and only you know if every little part turned out perfect. "Perfect" whatever pleases you.

Have a great day,
Thomas
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Kim on November 24, 2018, 09:12:58 PM
Thanks for all the support guys!

Haven't had much shop time today.  Somehow, I thought this was Shop Day, but really, its do stuff around the house day (like fix the router, put up Christmas lights, and several other things like that).

But I did manage to slip out into the shop for a few min (like 15 - it really wasn't very long) to give this a try.

One of the suggestions has been just to re-cut the tread angle to 3 degrees and deal with slightly smaller wheels.  So, I did that to one of the wheels and here's the result (one on the left has been re-cut to 3o, the one on the right is the evil 10o angled tread).
(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/002f-TenderWheels-1-DSC_5081.jpg)

Not too bad.  It was fast for sure.
(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/002f-TenderWheels-2-DSC_5083.jpg)

The tread part of the wheel is about 60-70 thou smaller in diameter than it’s supposed to be which is a little better than I’d calculated (I calculated ~0.084”).  Probably means my angle settings aren’t super accurate, which is not hard to believe.
(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/002f-TenderWheels-3-DSC_5086.jpg)

And with the tread being ~1/16” small, the flange is ~1/16” larger than its supposed to be.  ~1/32” on either side.

If I were willing to deal with the slight delta on the wheel diameter, are the flanges OK as is?  Or would they need to be cut down to suit?

Now I’m beginning to lean this way.  Certainly a lot less work, I don't scrap the material, and it doesn't look bad to me at all (yet).  Plus, there’s nothing that says I can’t change my mind and re-do the tender wheels later if it proves to be too big of an issue at some point.

Thanks for all the thoughts on this.  I really do appreciate the thoughts and discussion!
Kim
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: b.lindsey on November 24, 2018, 09:20:29 PM
The extra flange diameter doesn't look bad , but you will have a small flat where the tread was cut down. Not an issue for display, those that run live steam will have to comment on that from a running perspective though. All in all, I think you are on the right track!!

Bill
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: crueby on November 24, 2018, 09:21:04 PM
Wow - big improvement in the appearance!

For the flange, it looks fine, but it would depend on what rails you would be running it on (if any) - if left too tall they could hit the track holding spikes/bolts/etc. If this is for display and static running, looks fine to me.
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Steve17 on November 24, 2018, 10:10:54 PM
Looks so much better and 15 minutes well spent. As you said you can always change your mind.

Steve.
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Dave Otto on November 24, 2018, 10:57:20 PM
That looks much better Kim.
It wouldn't take too long to skim the OD and re-cut the 10 degree tapers, then the proportions would be correct; but tucked up under the tender it probably won't matter either way.

Dave
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: kvom on November 24, 2018, 11:18:16 PM
I would try turning one to the correct angle and just see what it looks like. The only bit that would give the game away would be the thickness of the tyre.

Steve

Yes, this is another strong contender.  If I do this, the whole wheel will be 0.084" smaller than its supposed to be and the tender will sit 0.042" lower than designed.  That's almost 3/64".  Maybe not a big deal, but I'm not sure I will be happy.

Ah... decisions, decisions...
Kim

Just ignore it for now and finish the frame and trucks.  Then you can judge its appearance.
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Steamer5 on November 25, 2018, 02:30:47 AM
Hi Kim,
 Just catching up on progress. The wheels look fine, just like they have been in the shop for re- profiling in full size! A friend of mine purchased a loco of another club members estate & found all the wheels a different diameter.....UP Challanger & went down the turn all too the same size & tired the lot.
 If you decide to go down the tire route another option is to use heavy wall tube, say schedule 40 or maybe 80 or even more or get some laser or water cut plate.

Keep up the progress.

Cheers Kerrin
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Kim on November 25, 2018, 06:17:33 AM
Thank you everyone, really appreciate your thoughts on this!

Dave, you're right, I was thinking the same thing - it wouldn't take very long to bring the flanges down a tad and then it would look even better.  Besides, I'll have to clean up the flange tapers a bit anyway.   Have to get rid of that little flat spot on the flange that Bill was talking about :)

Thanks for all the encouragement and suggestions!
Kim
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: 10KPete on November 25, 2018, 06:19:11 AM
 :ThumbsUp: :ThumbsUp: :popcorn: :popcorn:

 :cheers:

Pete
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Kim on December 02, 2018, 03:25:58 PM
Thanks Pete!


Back to the shop to tackle the wheels.

I’d decided to bring the flanges down a tad to make them more proportional to the slightly smaller wheel.  The basic dimensions that I used for my ‘resized wheels’ was 2 3/16” for the outside of the flanges (vs. the 2 1/4" in the plans) and for the max tread height, I went with 1.90”  (where the plans say 2 1/16”).  If you bother with the math, you can see that this comes out to the 0.042” (radius) that I will be off due to re-cutting the tread at 3o (from the  10o I mistakenly, initially used).


Here is the flange being brought down to its new size, after cutting the tread slow down to 3o:
(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/002g-TenderWheels-1-DSC_5088.jpg)

After this, I re-tapered the flanges, both front and back.  Didn’t show pictures of that, since its identical to what I showed back in post #57 (http://www.modelenginemaker.com/index.php/topic,8552.msg188280.html#msg188280 (http://www.modelenginemaker.com/index.php/topic,8552.msg188280.html#msg188280)).  After filing the flange top round and polishing them up a bit, here are all 8 wheels in their final form:
(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/002g-TenderWheels-2-DSC_5091.jpg)

(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/002g-TenderWheels-3-DSC_5094.jpg)

It wasn’t all roses today. When was cutting down one of the flanges, I mis read the DRO and just cut WAY past my stop point making the flange noticeably short.  So, I cut one more blank and started from the beginning on another wheel. It probably took me a little over an hour, but I got it back to the same point as the others quickly enough. My only issue here was “Now that I’m making a fresh one, should I leave it as specified in the plans? Or should I ‘make’ it smaller to match all the others?”  In the end, I decided that I’d just make it match the other seven.  If I decide I need that extra 1/16”, I’ll just have to make 8 more wheels. But it was kind-of hard to make it ‘wrong’ intentionally!

And in the spirit of showing off my foibles, here’s a shot of my wheel reject bits:
(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/002g-TenderWheels-4-DSC_5098.jpg)

The one on the right was just today with the over aggressively shortened flange.  The one on the left was several weeks back.  I mis-read the dial caliper.  It showed 0.675” for the size of the center hub, but I read it as 0.775”. You know how you can see the ‘7’ when you’re in the high-range of the 0.600’s? Well, that bit me and this was the result.

With that, I think I’m ready to start a new part!  And next up will be the axels for the tender.  Luckily, only four of those :)

Thanks for all your support!
Kim
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: crueby on December 02, 2018, 03:31:29 PM
Bottom line - nice stack of wheels!!
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: b.lindsey on December 02, 2018, 03:59:44 PM
Those should work just fine Kim. I like that the flanges are proportional again. Nice recovery  :ThumbsUp:

Bill
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Steve17 on December 02, 2018, 04:15:43 PM
Looking good :praise2: when I was an apprentice I was told the difference an amateur and a professional was how well they can get out of a situation. Well executed recovery.

Steve.
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Kim on December 02, 2018, 05:49:58 PM
Thanks Chris, Bill, and Steve,

... when I was an apprentice I was told the difference an amateur and a professional was how well they can get out of a situation. Well executed recovery.
Well, then I guess I can emulate a professional as long as I have a large team of helpful coaches giving me tips and suggestions!  :ROFL:
Kim
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: cnr6400 on December 04, 2018, 04:34:33 AM
Great looking wheels Kim. A very good start to your locomotive's tender!  Also a couple of skill - building 'recoveries' under your belt for drive wheels and wheels of other locomotives.....can't get that out of any book or Yoot Ube video.
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Kim on December 04, 2018, 05:14:07 AM
Thanks CNR,
Yeah, the drivers... I'm excited/scared to get to those :)  I'm planning on fabricating them if I can.  Should be doable, but if I run into too much trouble, all it takes is some $$ and I can buy a set from Friends.  But I'm excited to give it a try (eventually - that's probably a couple years out yet, at my rate!)

Kim
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: b.lindsey on December 04, 2018, 01:59:56 PM
Now that the tender wheels are sorted out, what are you planning to tackle next Kim?

Bill
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Kim on December 05, 2018, 05:09:29 AM
Next will be the axles, then I'll be moving on to the truck assemblies, starting with the Journal Boxes. :)
Kim
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Kim on December 15, 2018, 10:45:47 PM
Chapter 2.2, Tender Axles start about halfway down this post.

It’s been a while since my last update, but I have made some progress.  A few weeks ago, I started painting the tender wheels.  I did a couple of coats of primer, then painted them red.  It’s been pretty cold out in my shop lately, so it takes a while for the paint to dry! 
(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/1-DSC_5107.JPG)

Today, I took the tape off.  And they seem to have turned out pretty well.
(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/2-DSC_5110.JPG)

One of the things Kozo shows, is gluing sandpaper to a piece of plywood, then holding that flat against the wheels with the tail stock to clean up the ends of the wheels.
Worked a treat!
(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/3-DSC_5114.JPG)

And it made some cool patterns on the sandpaper too! :)
(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/4-DSC_5116.JPG)

After doing all the ‘front’ side of the wheels, I flipped them around and sanded up the backside in the same way.
(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/5-DSC_5121.JPG)

And here’s all eight of them, half upside down, and half right side up.
(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/6-DSC_5123.JPG)

Chapter 2.2 Tender Axles

Next, I cut four chunks of 3/8” 12L14 and faced it off to exactly 4.750”.  Then using the collet chuck, I made a few steps in each end like this. The bigger step (5/16”) is for the wheel, and the smaller step (1/4”) will go in the bearing in the Journal Box.
(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/7-DSC_5104.JPG)

All four of the axels completed.
(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/8-DSC_5112.JPG)

And here’s the current family shot.
(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/9-DSC_5125.JPG)

Not much of a locomotive yet, but I’ll get there. One step at a time.  And this, my friends, officially completes my first step in Kozo’s book!  Only 34 or so to go!  (and this was an absurdly easy one! ::) )

Thanks for stopping by!
Kim
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: crueby on December 15, 2018, 10:50:12 PM
That really changed the look.


 :popcorn: :ThumbsUp:
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Ye-Ole Steam Dude on December 15, 2018, 10:50:33 PM
Hello Kim,

Boy those sure look good, the sandpaper trick is a neat way to finish them.

Have a great day,
Thomas
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: b.lindsey on December 15, 2018, 10:52:55 PM
Those look great to me Kim. Love the sandpaper trick as well. So are the frames chapter 2?

Bill
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Kim on December 15, 2018, 11:06:42 PM
Thanks Chris, Thomas, and Bill!
I'm pretty pleased with how the wheels look.  The paint really does pep it up some, doesn't it?  Those nice crisp lines...  :Love:

Bill, the next step is making the trucks.  Lots of parts and work there. I won't get to the frame till after the trucks are completed.  Interestingly, the first step (the tender wheels) is chapter 2.  Chapter 1 is the intro and general assembly drawings.

I'm thinking maybe I should start labeling my updates with chapters, so if anyone wants to reference in the future, they can match it to Kozo's book more easily. I think I may do that.

I've also thought about adding an index at the beginning of the build.  I'll just update it with links to where the different parts are.  It might be helpful to someone, but it would also fit my mildly obsessive personality.  It would be fun to have the index for the whole thing in one place :)

Kim

Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: b.lindsey on December 15, 2018, 11:27:08 PM
Thanks Kim. I mis-spoke. What I had meant was the tender truck frames....my bad. An index may be a good idea, not sure anyone has tried that. Guess I will have to buy the book to follow along. Can't tell the players without a program right??  :Lol:

Bill
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: kvom on December 16, 2018, 02:28:56 AM
At least there are only 4 trucks.  I didn't build a tender, so no hands-on experience here, but the machining looks straightforward.  Bending the arch bars may be the trickiest part.  I would probably look for off the shelf springs.
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Kim on December 16, 2018, 05:56:55 AM
Thanks Kim. I mis-spoke. What I had meant was the tender truck frames....my bad. An index may be a good idea, not sure anyone has tried that. Guess I will have to buy the book to follow along. Can't tell the players without a program right??  :Lol:

Bill
Clearly, everyone needs the hymnal so they can follow along  :ROFL:
But really, this is a great book, so I'd recommend it whether you care about my build or not!  Just a great reference for tips and techniques (at least for a less experienced machinist like me!)

And sorry for misunderstanding you.  But it worked for the good.  It will help me make things more clear going forward  :)

Thanks Kvom,
I'm going to give winding my own springs a shot!  Kozo give such clear information, I think I can do it.   Yet another fun thing to learn!

Kim
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Flyboy Jim on December 16, 2018, 02:30:41 PM
Those wheels look great Kim. Well done.

I thought of something while looking at them. I know how much 12L14 wants to rust. Well, I just bought a couple of new planes for the woodworking side of my shop. The manufacturer recommends wiping them down with Camelia Oil to ward off rust. Here's the Amazon link to my source for Camelia Oil: https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00362HBPQ/ref=oh_aui_detailpage_o01_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1 I'm going to try it on the 12L14 fly wheel on my first wobbler build.

Jim
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Dave Otto on December 16, 2018, 05:15:15 PM
Beautiful job on the wheels Kim!
I can see when building a Loco that finishing the parts as you go may be a better option than tearing the whole thing down for painting when it is finished. Is this what you are thinking for the rest of the parts and assemblies as you proceed?

Dave

Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Kim on December 16, 2018, 06:10:25 PM
Thanks Jim and Dave,

I had considered using a coat of clear matte finish on the unpainted steel to help keep it from oxidizing.  I was worried the oil would pick up dust and yuck.  But maybe the oil would still be a better soution.

Yes, I'm planning to finish parts as I go on this model.  I see other people doing this and thought it might be fun to give it a try.

Kim
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Kim on December 24, 2018, 03:21:46 AM
This week I got started on Chapter 3, the Tender Truck Frames.  And the first step in that is the Journal Boxes.  The Journal Boxes require a few jigs.  Kozo recommends a couple of jigs to for milling the angles, and another one for drilling some screw holes.

I don’t intend on making the screw hole locating jig, but I did build the angle setting jigs.  I figure using the DRO will be better accuracy than I could obtain with a jig.

Chapter 3.1 - Journal Boxes

First, I’ll tell you about the Jigs. I didn’t exactly do things in this order. For example, I did some of the journal box steps while the steel for the jigs was cooling. But it makes a much better narrative flow this way.

I used 1/2"x 3/4" 1018 bar (CRS) for these jigs and finished a couple of pieces to 3”.  Before I did any significant milling, I decided to do a little strain relief.  So I heated them up with my torch for a bit.  I know its better to use an oven and soak it for a long time, but I don’t have an oven. So, I use the torch.  It seems to mostly work :)  This is an exciting shot of the two hunks of metal cooling.
(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/004a-Journal_Box-1-DSC_5132.jpg)

Fist I did the 45o jig.  I set that one up using some angle blocks and clamped it in the vise and cut the ‘V’ in it. (Forgot to take a picture of that).  That one was relatively easy.  But the 3/10 angle jig was more challenging for me. A 3/10 angle works out to be 16.69o.  So, finally came up with this; I used a vice with a sine vice and set it to 16.69o and I clamped that in the mill vise. (try doing this in the Taig! :naughty:)  The workpiece being held long-ways like that wasn’t ideal, but I took small cuts and took things easy, and it worked out alright.
(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/004a-Journal_Box-2-DSC_5140.jpg)

Here’s a close-up of the 3/10 fixture, just after being milled.
(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/004a-Journal_Box-3-DSC_5142.jpg)

And here are the two angle jigs, ready for use!
(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/004a-Journal_Box-4-DSC_5147.jpg)

But wait!  I have those cool number stamps!  Why not put them to good use:
(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/004a-Journal_Box-5-DSC_5150.jpg)
Clearly I’m going to have to learn how to get those lined up better.  The numbers are going all which way.  Does anyone have any good hints on how to get the numbers aligned better and more evenly?

Here’s my blanks for the Journal Boxes.  These are cut from 5/8” square 12L14.  I only need 8 of these, but I made a spare just for fun!
(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/004a-Journal_Box-6-DSC_5129.jpg)

I cleaned up the 5/8” blanks to the correct length (13/16”).
(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/004a-Journal_Box-7-DSC_5135.jpg)

And here are all 8 (plus spare) cut to size and ready for the next operation.
(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/004a-Journal_Box-8-DSC_5143.jpg)

This is where I leave off for today, and possibly till after Christmas.

May you all be blessed with a wonderful and merry Christmas!

Kim
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: b.lindsey on December 24, 2018, 03:57:07 AM
Thanks for the update Kim. Christmas wishes to you and your family too.

Bill
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: cnr6400 on December 24, 2018, 04:01:29 PM
Hi Kim, re how to line up letter stamps - the old fashioned way was to make a 4 sided frame of square stock that is a sliding fit for 4-6 stamps side by side. A brass screw through one short side of the frame can be used to adjust for holding more than one stamp. If the frame and stamps can be clamped in place to the work or the vise holding it, alignment can be made very close to perfect. In theory you could hold more than 4-6 stamps, but because they are loose in the frame, they would be unwieldy to hold everything while using the hammer to make the impressions.

One thing to note though - check the dimensions on your stamps - on a set I bought a few years ago a couple were .008" to .010" bigger than the others, and one had a side at 95 degrees to its' neighbour! (it was a very cheap set, but still.....) A friend with a surface grinder sorted the big and unsquare ones quite quickly.

You may have noticed that the stamp impressions leave metal raised above the surface. This may not ever be an issue for you but the raised bits can interfere with making an accurate thickness stack of blocks or a height setup. If you mill a .010" deep slot on the blocks, then letter stamp in the slots, the impressions will be well below the surface. The die makers in the first shop I worked in used to do this so they could grind the blocks without grinding the ID letter and number stamps away when fitting the die blocks together. Again just an old trick of the trade.

If you plan to have your shop elves or gnomes make such a frame, be careful they start it before they get into the egg nog with Navy rum this time of year. Crueby on here has had some egg nog related shop elf issues this season...... :naughty:

Merry Christmas to everyone on the forum.

Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: crueby on December 24, 2018, 04:28:19 PM
Yeah, thier partys are fun but messy...
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: cnr6400 on December 24, 2018, 04:49:07 PM
Chris, you may need to consider a better lock on the spirit locker for next Christmas.......

Ish power;luf schtuf tha elf eg no^&g..... :insane:
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Kim on December 24, 2018, 06:07:41 PM
Thanks CNR, that's a very clever idea!  That would get them lined up and solve the vertical alignment and rotational issues.
Is there a standard way to get the letters spaced evenly?  Or do you just eyeball it?

Thank you!
Kim
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Ye-Ole Steam Dude on December 24, 2018, 06:52:57 PM
Hello Kim,

Your new "layout" by chapter is really neat and should be extremely helpful to all those who build a like unit.

Happy Holidays,
Thomas
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: cnr6400 on December 24, 2018, 07:52:36 PM
Thanks CNR, that's a very clever idea!  That would get them lined up and solve the vertical alignment and rotational issues.
Is there a standard way to get the letters spaced evenly?  Or do you just eyeball it?

Thank you!
Kim

Hi Kim, I can't take any credit for the idea - saw it done many years ago by the old-timer master mould and diemakers I worked with. Just passing it along. As to spacing, you can't get the letters closer together than the punch centre to centre distance (without altering the punches), but you can of course add spacers between punches. When using punches in a frame, one set of letters/numbers could be punched after the frame is located to a datum, say a mill vise stop, by a spacer made from scrap, or a gauge block stack. Then if you want a second set of letters / numbers punched a known distance away, do another spacer or gauge block stack the desired distance away from the datum, less the frame thicknesses. Five piece frames with 3 crossmembers can be made to punch two rows of letters/numbers, more crossmembers could in theory be added to the frame for more rows. Again though the more punches in the frame the more chances for one to jump out of position while using the hammer. Good luck and have fun letter punching!

I'm off to my workshop now to see how bad my own shop elves / tool hiders have broken up the joint - they picked up some bad egg nog habits from Crueby's elves I think..... :DrinkPint:
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Kim on December 24, 2018, 08:39:13 PM
Thanks Thomas!

And thanks for the reply, crn.  I'll have to think on the horizontal spacing a bit.  But getting things aligned vertically would be a big improvement for me! :)

Kim
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Steve17 on December 26, 2018, 05:27:15 PM
Hi Kim,
I think I will follow your lead and work in chapters also painting as you go. After three years on and off I just have a collection of bits and pieces for my 5" gauge Kozo climax's.
Steve.
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Kim on December 27, 2018, 07:37:08 AM
Sounds great Steve, can't wait to see where you are on you build!
Now I'll have to get the Climax book.  That and the New Shay are the two I'm missing from the set.

So, are you scaling Kozo's plans? I thought all Kozo's locomotives were 3.5" scale.

Kim
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Steve17 on December 27, 2018, 10:35:00 AM
Hi Kim,
It's a strange world I'm happy playing with CNC but I have a phone that's a lot smarter than me and I generally run a mile from computers. I'll have to work out how to load pictures and start another thread.
The only Kozo book I haven't got is the old Shay, but the one I would like is the K27 when it happens. That would make a good size loco in 5".
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Steve17 on December 27, 2018, 10:39:58 AM
Forgot to mention, yes I am scaling up to 5". Some of the components need a bit if refinement I think and you have to keep an eye on fixings and tube sizes but other than that it should work out.

Steve.
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Kim on December 27, 2018, 06:56:19 PM
Thanks Steve,
Well, I'd love to see what you're doing. If you wanna try, there are a bunch of us here willing to help you figure out how to post pictures to the forum.  It's not that difficult, I've figured it out after all  :Lol:
Kim
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Kim on December 28, 2018, 06:06:14 AM
As I mentioned in another thread, Santa was generous this year and stuffed a nice new vise down the chimney for me!  Here’s a picture of the bench all prepped, with mounting holes drilled:
(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/1-DSC_5172.JPG)

And here’s the finished product.  I’m pleased with the new vise.  Much more substantial than my old, rather rickety vise.
(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/2-DSC_5174.JPG)

OK, continuing on with the Journal Boxes.  This work was done in several segments out in the shop, but I’m combining it all into one update to get me up to real time.

This is going to be a multi-step operation. So, I marked each of the Journal Box blanks on one end so that every time I swapped that piece into the mill vise, it would be oriented the same way.  With that, I setup the stop and positioned the mill to spot and drill a 3/8” hole for the journal bearing.
(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/3-DSC_5154.JPG)

Then I setup the boring head to produce a 0.393” hole, and bored all the holes to that size.
(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/4-DSC_5157.JPG)

Here’s the shot to this point (that was one shop session).
(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/5-DSC_5160.JPG)

After getting the vise anchored to the bench today, I did some experiments to work out how to cut a 5/16” slot JUST right.  I used two passes of a 1/4" end mill.  Apparently, the 5/16” end mill doesn’t quite make a 5/16” slot.  And doing it in two passes of the 1/4" felt safer.  Anyway, after I got that worked out, it was just a matter of doing it 16 time; once on the top and once on the bottom of each Journal Box.
(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/6-DSC_5177.JPG)

Here’s all the Journal Boxes at the end of play time today.  I started with nine so that I had one spare.  Well, I burnt that spare today on the 5/16” slotting operation.  I missed one of them and dialed in the incorrect number. (The one I boogered up is on the far right).
(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/7-DSC_5183.JPG)

I'd considered leaving the mill setup for one pass and cycling through all 16 positions, resulting in 32 part moves. But instead, I chose to only have 16 part insertions/removals and position the mill using the DRO each time.  I thought that would be less errorprone.  Guess I was wrong. Ah well. At least I had a spare, right?

Still several more steps on the Journal Boxes, so I'll be tackling those tomorrow.

Thanks for stopping by!
Kim
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Roger B on December 28, 2018, 08:15:24 AM
Still following along and enjoying :ThumbsUp:  :ThumbsUp:  :wine1: A good start on chapter 3  :praise2:
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Steve17 on December 28, 2018, 10:20:17 AM
You are making really good progress with your axel boxes. It doesn't matter how many spares I make I'll always trash them.  :popcorn:

Steve.
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Kim on December 28, 2018, 06:12:48 PM
Thanks Roger and Steve,
Appreciate the commiseration :)
Kim
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Kim on December 29, 2018, 07:16:07 PM
Continuing on with the Journal Boxes:

Next step was to spot, drill and tap 32 holes.  The holes are the same on the top and bottom of the box.  Rather than move the mill head each side, I decided to do twice as many part insertions.  So, my order of operations was:
Here’s part way through the first step.
(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/004c-JournalBox-1-DSC_5185.jpg)

Next, was to drill 32 holes, 3/16” deep.  I did basically the same thing here – 32 drilling operations, one per insertion (1 each side of 16 sides (8 boxes), reposition mill and do it again).
(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/004c-JournalBox-2-DSC_5187.jpg)
This was the first time I've used the depth stop on the Z-axis.  It actually worked WAY better than I'd thought it would.  I'd had not expected to rely on the stop, but to just have it keep me from making really gross errors. But I was able to set it to the thousandth, and it stayed there, VERY consistent. That made this drilling operation, repetitive as it was, much less onerous!

Finally, was the tapping.  Same process.  I hand tapped, but used the mill to keep the tap straight.
(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/004c-JournalBox-3-DSC_5189.jpg)

All totaled, there were 96 part insertions to complete this step! And each one registered quite well.  I was quite pleased with that.

With all holes drilled and tapped, the final step was to put the fancy bevel cuts on the boxes.  That’s where those fancy angle jigs I made come in :)

I first did the 45o section.  This was 3/16” on each side, so I calculated that I needed to go down 0.132” from the tip. It came out just right! :) Did 8 of these.
(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/004c-JournalBox-4-DSC_5192.jpg)

And finally, the 3/10 angled section.  I calculated the depth to be 0.1796” for this.  And it also worked out just right.
(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/004c-JournalBox-5-DSC_5196.jpg)

Here’s the 8 Journal Boxes now complete:
(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/004c-JournalBox-6-DSC_5199.jpg)
They need a bit of clean-up to help get rid of the mill marks, but they look pretty good!
Kim
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Tennessee Whiskey on December 29, 2018, 07:25:49 PM
Looks like a great production run to me Kim. Seems like you are getting along with the new mill quite well. Do you have a DRO on it?

Cletus
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Kim on December 29, 2018, 08:02:31 PM
Thanks Cletus! :)
DRO?  Oh yes, definitely! That was part of Santa's treat LAST year about this time :)

Loving the Mill, and love the DRO.  The Vise on the mill is great too!  It's a 4" South Bend vise from Grizzly. Really nice quality, easy to use and it works so smooth and slick. I just love using it.  Made the hundred+ insertions easy to do.  And as I mentioned, they were repeatable and accurate!  What more can you ask for?

Thanks,
Kim
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Steve17 on December 29, 2018, 08:11:06 PM
Looking good, you sure are making progress. I never use flute less taps, are they any better as sometimes the threads tear with me if I use structural steel.

Steve.
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Dave Otto on December 29, 2018, 09:33:41 PM
Nice looking vise Kim, you are going to enjoy using it; can't go wrong with a Wilton, I have four of them! :lolb:
The A3 parts are also looking quite nice.

Dave
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: b.lindsey on December 30, 2018, 12:50:40 AM
Wow, impressive progress Kim. The boxes look great!!!

Bill
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: steamer on December 30, 2018, 01:56:14 AM
Coming together great Kim!

Dave
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Kim on December 30, 2018, 02:05:15 AM
Thanks Steve, Dave, Bill, and Dave!

Steve,
I do like the roll form taps. They don't have the flutes, so my theory is that they have a little more beef to them to help keep them from breaking.  Secondly, you don't make chips, so you don't have to worry about reversing to break the chips.  I've heard that the roll form taps can be difficult to use in steel, but I've not had any problem in 12L14, or even 1018 steel.  Maybe if I spent as much on the cutting taps as I do on the forming taps I'd have as good of luck with them too.  Most of the cutting taps I have are cheap imports.

Anyway, I like them :)

Thanks for the comments on the vise Dave.  I'm pleased with it, and hope to be more pleased as I start using it!

Bill, I can make a little more progress than normal since I've got a few days off here.  I've got family in town, but still getting some time to play! :embarassed:

Kim
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Kim on December 30, 2018, 05:06:49 AM

Chapter 3.2 - Journal Bearings

Today I started the Journal Bearings.  These were made from 1/2” C932 Bearing Bronze.  The 1/2" is a little big, but there was no 7/16” rod available. Besides, it would have probably been more expensive to purchase two rods when I can just  whittle down a little bit of 1/2".  Wouldn’t even save work since I’d have to cut the 7/16” down too, just not as much.

These bearings are a bit complicated.  Kozo makes them barrel shaped, not just a cylinder.  To do this, you have to cut a slight taper on both ends of the bearing, as you’ll see below.

First step was to drill and ream a 1/4" hole in the bearing for the axles.
(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/005a-JournalBearing-01-DSC_5200.jpg)

Then I cut a short length down to the specified 0.393”.  This will just fit inside the holes bored in the Journal Boxes.
(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/005a-JournalBearing-02-DSC_5202.jpg)

To make it easier to cut the barrel shape, I used a black sharpie to color the bronze rod.  That way I could see what I was shaving off more easily.
(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/005a-JournalBearing-03-DSC_5205.jpg)

I made little marks at 0.125”, 0.145”, the important points on the bearing. Then I used the compound, set at 3o to taper the outside of the bearing.
(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/005a-JournalBearing-04-DSC_5207.jpg)

And then adjusted the compound to 3o the other way and tapered that side.  It’s hard to see in the photo, but there’s a slight taper on each end.  The black band in the middle is about 0.020” wide and is kept flat.
(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/005a-JournalBearing-05-DSC_5209.jpg)

Finally, I cut off the bearing, a little oversized.  In a later step, I will face off that side to the correct width.
(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/005a-JournalBearing-06-DSC_5210.jpg)

Here’s a picture of two completed.  The marks on the end are to help me remember that this is the ‘cut off’ end that needs to be faced later.
(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/005a-JournalBearing-07-DSC_5213.jpg)

Here’s how it will all go together; the bearing on the axle:
(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/005a-JournalBearing-08-DSC_5215.jpg)

And the Bearing will slide in the Journal Box.  And here is what all that extra work making the barrel shape buys you: the axle can tilt a little bit relative to the bearing box.  This shot shows one direction:
(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/005a-JournalBearing-09-DSC_5216.jpg)

And this shot shows the other.
(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/005a-JournalBearing-10-DSC_5218.jpg)

Makes sense.  Seems like a pretty smart technique :)

Kim
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: 10KPete on December 30, 2018, 06:09:05 AM
Smart as paint and sharp as a tack! That's a really simple, good, way to take care of axle oscillations. No muss, no fuss, cheap and easy.

I need to take the book down and go through it again. I'll never build it but I'll read that porn...  :naughty:

Nice work, Kim. This adventure is off to a great start!!

Pete
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Steve17 on December 30, 2018, 09:19:05 AM
Looks very sharp Kim. I find it interesting that Kozo changes a lot of the smaller details as his trains evolve. On the Climax journal boxes there is no provision for the axel to tilt. Everything is size for size with square edges and true cylinders. I did do a small mod on mine and put an easy radius on the journal box slots. Fingers crossed and time will tell.

Steve.
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Kim on December 30, 2018, 05:51:49 PM
Thanks Pete and Steve,
Interesting to hear how Kozo's plans evolve over time.  Wonder what order his plans developed? I think the Pennsy is fairly new, but the New Shay is most recent.  I'd guess the original Shay book is oldest, but I don't really know. I'll have to look.  Should be able to tell by the copyright dates on the books.

Kim
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Admiral_dk on December 30, 2018, 07:51:38 PM
You're really moving with this one Kim - but then again, with the amount of parts needed for this loco - it will still take some time before you reach the end of this journey. Oh - and nice parts too  :ThumbsUp:

I will follow your progress along with the others  :cheers:  :popcorn:
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: crueby on December 30, 2018, 08:20:41 PM
Kozo's books:


Shay, 1982
Hiesler, 1986
Climax, 1988
A3, 2001
New Shay, 2007


He currently has a new one being serialized in Live Steam magazine, Building The Rio Grande K-27, which will be a book afterwards, currently on part 28, throttle.


His methods have evolved during the series, fantastic reference for all sorts of methods.


Chris
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Kim on December 30, 2018, 11:26:56 PM
Thanks Chris!  You saved me the trouble of looking them up  ;D

Hi Admiral,
Yes, this is going to be quite a journey for me!  But I'm excited about it and just keep plugging away.  I won't always get this kind of time to make progress, but since I've got some time, I'm going to make hay, as they say.  Or I guess, make A3 parts :)

Thanks,
Kim
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Tennessee Whiskey on December 31, 2018, 12:09:42 AM
It ain’t the destination, it’s the ride  8) ;)

Cletus
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: steamer on December 31, 2018, 01:18:58 AM
How do you like that diamond tool holder Kim?

Dave
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Kim on December 31, 2018, 05:43:01 AM
It ain’t the destination, it’s the ride  8) ;)

Thanks Eric, couldn't agree more! :)

How do you like that diamond tool holder Kim?
I love it!  It is very consistent.  It works well on almost any material, for both facing and turning.  It's easy to sharpen, is quite sturdy, and generally leaves a great finish.

It's my general purpose tool for almost everything now :)

YMMV of course.  For people with more experience, and know what they're doing, this tool may not be quite as magical as it is for me.  But I really like it!

Kim
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Steamer5 on December 31, 2018, 06:48:50 AM
Hi Kim,
 Coming along nicely!
I’ve got a couple of Kozo’s book’s & like you say they are a great resource, lots of hints & tips.

On the diamond tool holders, they are great! Had mine for a couple of years now & they are capable of some serious work if your lath has the power, or you are brave enuff! I got the parting tool as well, can recommend that as well!

Well there 4 hours of this year to go, so have a Happy, productive New Year!

Cheers Kerrin
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Steve17 on December 31, 2018, 09:36:43 AM
It ain’t the destination, it’s the ride  8) ;)

Cletus

How very true. Every now and then I make something at work on the CNC, yes it is quick but it has very little value to me as it is just typing numbers.

You are making good progress Kim and your pictures always paint a thousand words. It's nice to see how other people overcome problems in a home workshop and what emphasis you put on tooling.

I am really tempted to try the diamond tool holder but to be honest I have so much tool steel it seems a waste.

Steve
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: JC54 on December 31, 2018, 07:59:33 PM
Is the diamond toolholder the same as tangential toolholder? If it is I made one and find it one of the best things that I have made/bought for the workshop. It cuts superbly and as a learner it is so easy to sharpen and set tool height . I use ordinary HSS tool steel of which I have quite a stock. :old: :DrinkPint: JC
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Tennessee Whiskey on December 31, 2018, 08:02:51 PM
Yes it is JC. Steve, if you have any 1/4” HSS then alls you need is the holder.

Cletus
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Kim on December 31, 2018, 10:48:05 PM
Yup, Cletus answered it - the Diamond is a tangential holder.  It's just someone's product name. These are sold by Village Press.

I finished up the Journal Bearings today.
I used a 25/64” collet to hold the bearings to face off the other side.  Even thought they were barrel shaped, this worked quite well!

I used a 1/4" rod held in the tail stock to insert the bearings – that way they were mostly square with the world.
(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/005b-JournalBearing-1-DSC_5221.jpg)

Once in the collet, I faced them off to length, then used a 45o chamfering mill to chamfer the hole a bit:
(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/005b-JournalBearing-2-DSC_5220.jpg)

Here’s are all 8 of them:
(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/005b-JournalBearing-3-DSC_5223.jpg)

And that was it for the bearings.
Kim
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Kim on December 31, 2018, 10:50:01 PM
Chapter 3.3 - Columns
Next up, the columns.  These will support the axels and connect them to the bolsters.

One of the things I need for the columns is some 1/16” steel cut into strips.  I also need some of that for Arches, which will be coming up soon. So, since I was going to switch the horizontal band saw over to being vertical, I figured I’d prepare them all right now.

Here I’m cutting the 1/16” steel into strips on the band saw.
(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/006a-Columns-1-DSC_5226.jpg)

And here’s most of the strips cut.  I still have one more 0.090” strip to cut (you can see the last strip is marked on the sheet).  The ones on the right are 1/16” thick, the ones in the middle are 3/32”  (well, 0.090”, but that was as close as I could get to 3/32” in sheet).
(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/006a-Columns-2-DSC_5236.jpg)

That was it for today. It took an absurdly long time to cut those strips!  It's just slow going.

Thanks for following along.
Kim
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Steamer5 on January 01, 2019, 06:06:00 AM
Hi Kim,
 Looking good.
One of the reasons I built the new larger table for my bandsaw is the fence that goes with it. A little bit of setup time makes cutting strip like you have just done easy, no need to mark your stock.......it doesn’t make the cutting any faster!
Keep up the good work!

Cheers Kerrin
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Kim on January 01, 2019, 04:54:12 PM
Thanks Kerrin!

I could see a good fence being a real help here.  I did try clamping a piece of stock in place to act as a fence, but that caused me more trouble than it was worth, so I just took it off. Turns out that the table is not square with the blade.   After I took the fence off, I saw that when was actually cutting a straightish line the was
like 10o off from being perpendicular to the blade.  Now, that doesn't really matter, but it did make it so when I lined up the fence with the table, it didn't work too well  ::)

Kim
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Tennessee Whiskey on January 01, 2019, 07:48:51 PM
The vertical saw is one of the handiest, yet, the most tedious and boring machines in the shop. Maybe it’s just a mental thing, but, it seems I do better if I deeply scribe or score my cut line with a scribe. Seems like vertical saws need a good bit of blade tension also that doesn’t show up as much as on a horizontal. Good looking sawing Kim  :ThumbsUp: :ThumbsUp:. I bet your eyes and thumbs  are a bit tired too  :old:

Cletus
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: matthew-s on January 02, 2019, 01:59:10 AM
Nice work! I’m particularly jealous of your surface finish  :)

I’m working on one in 3/4 scale as well. I’ve been working a full year now and only a bit farther along!

I have the tender done from the frame rails down (less paint). I decided to flip over to the engine until I get to a step that requires the knowledge from building the tender tank or pump. If I run into that I’ll likely switch back to the tender.

Keep up the good work and perseverance through setbacks! I had to walk away from mine for a while, in part to cool off after making a few mistakes.
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Kim on January 02, 2019, 05:26:48 AM
Thanks Cletus and Matthew,

Yeah, the band saw was tedious. But I kept telling my self that it was better than cutting them by hand with a hacksaw!  :o

Matthew, that's great that you're doing an A3!  You should start a build and post some pictures of your progress.  I'd love to follow along with your work too!

Kim
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Kim on January 02, 2019, 05:29:51 AM
Had a little time in the shop today after dropping my daughter off at the airport (always sad to have your kids leave again after the holidays, but it sure is fun to have them home!)

Today was all material prep.  I needed to get those 3/32” and 1/16” steel strips I cut yesterday to a more uniform size.

To start with, I cut them to an approximate length that would be needed for the columns and the arch bars. Cutting them to size made them all much easier to hold on the mill.

Since the strips were longer than my 4” vise, I used some 1/2" parallels to provide better support along the whole length.  I used a combination of parallels to get them supported to the correct height above the top of the vise/parallel, then 1/2” carbide mill to cut them down to width. (5/16”).
(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/006b-Columns-1-DSC_5242.jpg)

Even doing them 4 at a time, it still took a while.  But I got them all done, and here they are, all the steel strips I’ll need to complete the tender trucks.  The 12 longer ones are the various arch bars for the trucks, and the short ones are for the columns.
(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/006b-Columns-2-DSC_5244.jpg)

Kim
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Kim on January 03, 2019, 11:10:21 PM
Continuing work on the columns, I cut 8 pieces of 5/16” square 12L14.  These will be the actual columns for the trucks.  Before milling them I heated them up nice and hot with the torch and let them cool down slowly – for stress relief.

The columns have a basic “T” shape.  The cuts to make the T are very shallow.  I made this cut in the mill as seen here.  Did this 8 times, once for each column.
(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/006c-Columns-01-DSC_5246.jpg)

Then I flipped them all over and did the other side.  This made the T symmetrical.
(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/006c-Columns-02-DSC_5247.jpg)

Then I finished the columns to the correct length:
(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/006c-Columns-03-DSC_5248.jpg)

I should have done this step first!  it was was only supposed to be 1/4" tall.  Doing this step first would have provided more surface area for the vise.  But in the end, it worked out just fine. I only had to remove a 1/16” anyway.
(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/006c-Columns-04-DSC_5258.jpg)

Then I dialed in the center hole for the post and drilled and tapped 1-72.  This threaded hole will be used to hold things together while silver soldering.
(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/006c-Columns-05-DSC_5261.jpg)

Here’s the tapping part:
(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/006c-Columns-06-DSC_5262.jpg)

On the long edge, I drilled a close fit 1-72 through hole.  Again, this will be used to hold things in place during soldering.
(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/006c-Columns-07-DSC_5265.jpg)

The last part of the column, is the top connecting bar. These are made from those little short pieces of steel sheet that I cut out the other day.  All I had to do here was drill a couple of holes, 7/8” apart.  Here’s that op:
(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/006c-Columns-11-DSC_5266.JPG)

Here’s the column family shot: the 4 cross pieces at the top, the 8 columns in the middle (two groups of four), and last but not least, the soldering jig at the bottom.  This is a precisely cut little jig to help hold things square during soldering.
(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/006c-Columns-08-DSC_5273.jpg)

I’m assembling the first one, using the soldering jig.  But before I put the top cross piece on, I made a few pops on the end of the columns.  I’ve seen Chris do this many times, and now, on Kozo’s instructions, I’m doing it too :)  The idea is that this will hold the other piece away JUST enough to allow the silver solder to wick through.
(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/006c-Columns-09-DSC_5276.jpg)

And the cross piece in place ready for the soldering operation:
(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/006c-Columns-10-DSC_5278.jpg)

Now all I need to do is actually silver solder it.  But that will wait for another day.  I’m done in the shop for now.  My feet hurt and I’m ready for lunch!  No matter how much fun it is, if I stay out in the shop too long, it quits being fun and starts feeling like work. And I don’t want it to be work.  I’ve still got a couple of days off before I have to go back to that!

Thanks for checking in,
Kim
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: b.lindsey on January 04, 2019, 12:43:43 AM
Very nice progress Kim. Looking forward to seeing these come together.

Bill
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Steve17 on January 04, 2019, 10:54:06 AM
You are curtainly making good progress. I know what you mean about quitting while you are ahead. This is enjoyment not a job.

Steve.
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Kim on January 05, 2019, 06:52:07 PM
Thanks Steve and Bill!
You'll see the first steps of that 'coming together' here :)


Yesterday I got the columns soldered together.  This was an important step in that it proves that I can successfully silver solder 12L14 and the 4130 sheet steel.  I fully expected it to work, based on my extensive research (asking you guys and Googling) but its nice to see it work regardless! :)

Here’s my soldering setup – all prepped and ready:
(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/006d-Columns-1-DSC_5281.jpg)

And after the job.  This happens to be a different “after” shot (i.e. it doesn’t correspond to the before shot above) but the idea is the same (I forgot to take a picture of the first one).
(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/006d-Columns-2-DSC_5283.jpg)

I found that it was best to do each side separately. If I prepped both sides, the flux was all dried out and worthless by the time I got the first end done.  So I just took to prepping one end at a time.  8 solder sessions vs. 4, but it was worth it to have it work!  :Lol:

After soldering and a bit of pickle and a wash, I milled off the heads of the sacrificial screws that helped hold things together for soldering.
(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/006d-Columns-3-DSC_5286.jpg)

Then milled off the overhanging part of the sheet that joins the two columns.  Did this on both sides. (Note, I didn’t mill of the head of THIS screw, since it wasn’t soldered and can be re-used.)
(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/006d-Columns-4-DSC_5288.jpg)

Then there was some serious filing work to clean up the top connecting plate.  Here three of the four columns have been filed to shape, with the bottom right still to go.
(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/006d-Columns-5-DSC_5290.jpg)

Today I’ll drill and tap the final holes in the columns then get going on the bolsters!

Thanks,
Kim
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: crueby on January 05, 2019, 07:29:21 PM
Great job. Getting comfortable with the silver soldering opens up all sorts of fabrication.


 :popcorn:
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Kim on January 06, 2019, 12:38:35 AM
Thanks Chris!

The Columns aren’t quite finished yet.  I still need to finish cleaning them up, and adding the screw holes.

I wanted to start with this shot:  My new vise :)
This is my first real use of my new vise and it is quite nice! I’ll have to say its much more stable than my old vise and is more than adequate for this job!
(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/006e-Columns-2-DSC_5295.jpg)

The unfortunate thing is that I wanted to make some Aluminum soft jaws for the vise.  I started taking off the stock steel jaws but I couldn’t get them off. They are held on with little Philips head screws and they I found them VERY hard to get out.  I was able to remove a couple of them, but I completely stripped out one of the screws.  Now I can’t get it off at all. I’ll have to drill it out or something.  But, that’s not a job for today.  Instead, I just used double-sided-sticky-tape to hold a couple of pieces of aluminum in place over the steel jaws.

Anyway, here’s one of the columns ready to be filed to shape.
(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/006e-Columns-1-DSC_5291.jpg)

Next, I drilled 4 holes in each of the column assemblies (this is the top of one column):
(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/006e-Columns-3-DSC_5306.jpg)

And then tapped them 3-48 (this is the bottom of the column).
(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/006e-Columns-4-DSC_5309.jpg)

And the final shot of all four completed columns:
(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/006e-Columns-5-DSC_5313.jpg)

And that’s it for those. Thanks for looking in.
Kim
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Kim on January 06, 2019, 12:43:00 AM
Chapter 3.4 – Bolsters and Side Bearings
Following the columns are the bolsters.  These consist of upper and lower bolsters.  There will be coil springs between the upper and lower bolsters and the wheels will connect to the lower bolster.  The columns that I just made will keep the upper and lower bolsters aligned.

I cut several 5 1/2" lengths of 1018 steel.  Two for the upper bolsters (5/8”x3/4”) and two for the lower bolsters (5/16” x3/4”).

Since the bolsters (the upper in particular) will have some significant milling, I wanted to stress relieve these before starting.  Again, I did this with my torch, heating them up to a nice dull red.  Then I closed my “oven door” and left them to cool slowly.  You can see my ‘oven’ all closed up here :)
(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/007a-Bolsters-1-DSC_5297.jpg)

Here’s after the door is open.  You can see the 4 chunks of steel that were cooling all night.
(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/007a-Bolsters-2-DSC_5303.jpg)

But many of the cuts on the bolster need to be done at 3o.  So, I need to make a jig to allow me to cut easily at 3o.  For this, I used a 6” piece of 1/2" square 1018 that I had in my ‘short pieces’ pile.

To cut a 3o angle, I setup my sine vise, like so:
(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/007a-Bolsters-3-DSC_5314.jpg)

Here’s after I shaved a little 3o wedge off.
(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/007a-Bolsters-4-DSC_5317.jpg)

With this done, I cut the bar in half, and the jig is done.  I will be able to support pieces clamped between these two parts in the vise, and it should produce a 3o angle.
(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/007a-Bolsters-6-DSC_5323.jpg)

(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/007a-Bolsters-5-DSC_5324.jpg)

That’s where I left off today.

Thanks for taking a look!
Kim
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: b.lindsey on January 06, 2019, 12:47:44 AM
Nice day in the shop Kim. Gonna hate to see you have to go back to work. Very much enjoying the build.

Bill
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Kim on January 06, 2019, 12:55:59 AM
Thanks Bill!
Yeah, me too!  But I'm going to have to start W**k next week. :/  I'm enjoying having a bit of shop time every day. Guess it gives me something to look forward to in my retirement  :D
Kim
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: crueby on January 06, 2019, 01:04:58 AM
Thanks Bill!
Yeah, me too!  But I'm going to have to start W**k next week. :/  I'm enjoying having a bit of shop time every day. Guess it gives me something to look forward to in my retirement  :D
Kim


Ick!!  Condolences on the W**k.
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: 10KPete on January 06, 2019, 01:12:08 AM
Kim, I really like your solution to the 3* problem! Very clever..

 :popcorn: :popcorn:

Pete
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Kim on January 06, 2019, 05:28:36 AM
Thanks Pete!
Unfortunately, the only credit I can take here is maybe how I made it.  This is the 3o fixture that Kozo shows in his book.  But I made it a different way than he shows, so I'll take credit for that.  (or for copying someone else and not realizing it, so not attributing it to them, which is highly likely  :embarassed:).

Appreciate you following along Pete! :)
Kim
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: 10KPete on January 06, 2019, 08:57:38 AM
 :ThumbsUp:

Pete
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Ye-Ole Steam Dude on January 06, 2019, 09:33:23 AM
Hello Kim,

Still following along and enjoying the build.

Have a great day,
Thomas
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Firebird on January 06, 2019, 09:52:19 AM
 :popcorn:

Cheers

Rich
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: kvom on January 06, 2019, 12:31:31 PM
For temporary soft jaws for your vise, just mill some aluminum in the form of "angle iron" that sits on top of the steel jaws.
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: joe d on January 06, 2019, 12:36:30 PM
Hi Kim

Following along, and enjoying it.  I've got the book, and even got around to drawing up a BOM a few years ago...
Maybe seeing you progress will get me off my behind...

Cheers, Joe
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Kim on January 06, 2019, 05:46:04 PM
Thanks for following along Rich and Thomas!

For temporary soft jaws for your vise, just mill some aluminum in the form of "angle iron" that sits on top of the steel jaws.
I'll probably do that) though this is working at the moment :)

I was hoping to be able to screw in some soft jaws. I've heard that if you clamp things only in the top part of the jaws, the ones held by magnets can flip up, if that makes sense.

Thanks,
Kim
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Kim on January 06, 2019, 05:52:01 PM
Hi Kim

Following along, and enjoying it.  I've got the book, and even got around to drawing up a BOM a few years ago...
Maybe seeing you progress will get me off my behind...

Cheers, Joe

Yes! you should definately start this project! While it does challenge me, Kozo breaks everything up into manageable steps. I've found it quite rewarding, so far!

It'd be grea to have a couple of A3 builds going at once :)

Kim
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Steve17 on January 06, 2019, 07:47:40 PM
You are making great progress Kim. The good thing about the Kozo trains is that you can make so many sub assemblies and get a feel good factor. There are so many hints and tips in the book even if you don't or can't follow them you can certainly get the general idea.

Over the years I have tried to make short cuts with holding jobs for a one off and fallen fowl. Now I just make soft jaws and fix them in. At work I purchased a length of ally and pre made a pile of them to fit the vices.

 :facepalm:owe yes the w word! Back in tomorrow  :toilet_claw:

Steve.
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Dave Otto on January 07, 2019, 12:49:11 AM
Hi Kim

Lots of nice work going on here, won't be too long and you will have some assemblies that you can push around on the bench. :Lol:
I had missed the post about the soft jaws, after seeing some comments I had to go back and look for it.
You should be able to drill the head off of the screw then after the jaw is removed there should be enough of the screw sticking out that you could grab it with some vise grips.
If you use a left hand drill bit, lots of time the screw will back out as you are drilling.

Don't know if you remember this thread or not. Might be good for some ideas. :)
http://www.modelenginemaker.com/index.php/topic,6105.msg121984.html#msg121984

I have been using some sheet aluminum covers on my 6" vise that are way beyond their useful life. An engine collector friend gave me some nice copper bars the other day so I can make a decent set of jaws for this vise too.

Everything is looking great!
Dave


Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Kim on January 07, 2019, 05:47:48 AM
Thanks Steve and Dave,

Yes, I do remember that thread, Dave! Are those jaws still just as pristine looking today?  :LittleDevil:
Yeah, that's probably what I'll do, is drill the heads off the screws.  Just a bit frustrating.  Why would they put the screws on so tightly for removable jaws?   Doesn't make sense to me.  Maybe they put Loctite on them, which even makes LESS sense.  But since I got 2 of them out, I doubt that's the case.

Anyway, I'll deal with it some day.  And I'll make some really pretty soft jaws like you have Dave!  :ThumbsUp:

Thanks!
Kim
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Kim on January 12, 2019, 11:56:46 PM
Last shop session, I’d left off having cut and stress-relieved the bolster blanks, and them made the 3o jig that will be used in fabricating the bolsters.

First, I took the bolster blanks and milled them all to length (which was 5 3/16”, just in case  you care).
(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/007b-Bolsters-1-DSC_5328.jpg)

The two upper bolsters need to be 19/32” thick, and the material I have is 5/8” thick , so I need to loose 1/32”.  My plan was to shave a bit off each side, to decrease the chance of the part going all banana on me. I started in using a 1/2" carbide 4-flute end mill.  This took too passes which produced the familiar line down the middle of the part.  Not a biggie.
(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/007b-Bolsters-2-DSC_5332.jpg)

But then I remembered that I had a cool new tool that I got when I purchased the Grizzly mill – a 2 1/2" face mill!  Figured I should give that a try! Wouldn’t want any of my tools to feel left out, would we?
It worked quite well!  And I could do the 3/4” wide piece in a single pass.  And gave a very nice finish too!
(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/007b-Bolsters-3-DSC_5334.jpg)

After shaving the upper bolsters to width, it was time to cut the grooves that the columns will slide into. These grooves will be at a 3o angle, which is where that cool jig comes in. Now, I didn’t show it very well in this picture, but the bolster is clamped between those two parts with the 3o faces.  It worked amazingly well!
I made 3 passes with a 1/4" HSS end mill to cut the 0.315” wide angled groove (one down the center, then one along each edge to get the proper width).  0.315" is just a few thou over 5/16”, which is the width of the columns (just in case you don’t remember – cause I never would if it wasn’t my build).
(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/007b-Bolsters-4-DSC_5337.jpg)

I had to cut 4 of these – two on each side of the upper bolsters.  The trick was remembering to make the 3o angle face the correct direction (narrower at the top).  Luckily, I was able to maintain my attention the whole time and did them all correctly.  You can see in the next picture that I’d labeled one side of the bolsters as ‘Top’ to help ensure the angle was sloping the correct way.
(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/007b-Bolsters-5-DSC_5340.jpg)

With the column slid in place, you can see how the angle will give the truck some wiggle room and allow it to move a bit as it goes over the track.
(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/007b-Bolsters-6-DSC_5342.jpg)
(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/007b-Bolsters-7-DSC_5343.jpg)

That’s where I ended the day.  I’ll need to cut similar groves in the lower bolsters, then drill some holes to retain the springs that provide the suspension for the trucks.

Thanks for checking in,
Kim
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: crueby on January 13, 2019, 12:19:57 AM
Very well done, watching along with great interest!


 :popcorn: :popcorn: :popcorn:
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Kim on January 13, 2019, 05:59:54 AM
Thanks Chris :)
Kim
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: 10KPete on January 13, 2019, 06:34:49 AM
That wiggle room is evident many places in his designs. It shows the complete nature of his understanding of how things work.

It's the first thing that grabbed me when I first saw his book. Then had to buy it. :whoohoo:

Pete
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Steve17 on January 13, 2019, 06:53:42 PM
Getting to the stage when you can start bolting thins together. It's amazing how w :censored: gets in the way and we are reduced to weekends.

Looking really good and can't wait  :popcorn: :popcorn:

Steve.
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Kim on January 14, 2019, 02:28:10 AM
Thanks Pete and Steve!
Kim
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Kim on January 14, 2019, 02:30:41 AM
Today I focused on the lower bolsters, cutting the slots in those.

First cuts were identical to the upper bolsters – ~5/16” wide slots sloped at 3o on each side.  This was tricky because the BOTTOM was narrower for the lower bolsters (opposite of the upper bolsters).  I got that all right!

Then, I needed to cut a similar 3o angled slot across the bottom of these parts – connecting the side slots.  First I did one side, like so:
(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/007c-Bolsters-1-DSC_5346.jpg)

Then flipped it around (and the angle jig too) and did the other side.
The peak of this one didn’t come out ‘exactly’ on center, which means one side raised up a bit when I tightened the vise. But I figure it can’t make THAT much difference to have this shallow peak off center by a fraction of an inch.
 (http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/007c-Bolsters-2-DSC_5350.jpg)

Here’s a better one:
(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/007c-Bolsters-3-DSC_5353.jpg)

And here they are all mock assembled with the upper bolster and the columns:
(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/007c-Bolsters-4-DSC_5354.jpg)

Unfortunately, as I was fitting them together, I realized that I’d cut the connecting slots of one of the lower bolsters on the TOP instead of the bottom.  But I didn’t really notice it till some time during the fitting.  And as it turns out, I can’t really tell a difference in the movement of the ‘right side up’ one and the ‘upside down’ one. Which makes sense, as there really isn’t much difference in height a 3o slope over 1/4".

Anyway, I’m currently planning on not worrying about that blunder.  I don’t think its going to make a noticeable difference in how the tender moves.  If I change my mind as I’m going along, I can always re-make that lower bolster.  But as I said, I don’t notice any appreciable movement difference between them when assembled.  Maybe it will look different when I get the springs in place?  We’ll see.

Just one moment of inattention caused this dilemma. I’m sure it was that I was hurrying to get this step done before I went in.  Hurrying is always a bad idea.

Kim
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Kim on January 20, 2019, 12:04:30 AM
Today I completed the bolsters.  Last session I'd just I’d screwed up one of the lower bolsters by milling the slots on the wrong side. My plan was to ignore it and go on.  However, that bothered me.  And even though it didn’t act ‘much’ different, I could still tell the difference in how the bolster moved inside the columns.  So, I decided to remake that part.  I’m sure, in the end it wouldn’t have made any real difference, especially for the amount of time I plan to actually run this on a track.  But it bothered me and so I remade the part.

Here’s the new part – the one on the bottom is new, the one on the top, with the X’s is the bad one.  It’s hard to see the difference in this shot, but it’s the direction of the 3o side slope in the grooves on the ends of bolsters.  The new one is brighter than the old ones because I didn't bother to stress relieve the new one.  I only did the original ones because I had to do it for the upper bolsters, so why not?  But I didn't think it was really required for the lower bolsters, and I believe I was right.
(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/007d-Bolsters-1-DSC_5362.jpg)

After remaking that part, I drilled the holes that will retain the suspension springs.  I set it up for one of the holes, then did ONE hole on each end of the upper and lower bolsers.
(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/007d-Bolsters-2-DSC_5359.jpg)

Then I moved the position of the mill and did the matching hole on each end of all bolsters.
(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/007d-Bolsters-3-DSC_5365.jpg)

The upper bolster had several holes that needed to be drilled.  The center hole for the pivot pin, and threaded holes where the side bearings will attach. Here’ after the holes are drilled and I’m tapping the side bearing holes:
(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/007d-Bolsters-4-DSC_5367.jpg)

And to finish off the update, here’s a picture showing one set of bolsters stacked on the columns (no suspension springs yet) and the other set spread out for display.
(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/007d-Bolsters-5-DSC_5369.jpg)

Thanks for taking a look,
Kim
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: b.lindsey on January 20, 2019, 12:42:32 AM
Things are looking good Kim. Great to see a new update on your progress.

Bill
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Dave Otto on January 20, 2019, 12:44:58 AM
Nice work Kim!

Dave
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Kim on January 20, 2019, 05:09:18 AM
Thanks for stopping by for a look Bill and Dave! :)
Kim
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: fumopuc on January 21, 2019, 08:32:28 PM
Hi Kim, again a lot of progress.
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Kim on January 21, 2019, 10:59:01 PM
Thanks Achim!
Slow and steady progress is about the best I can do!  :embarassed:
Kim
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Kim on January 21, 2019, 11:04:54 PM
Today, I made the side bearings.  These are little blocks that slide along the underside of the tender frame to keep the trucks from flopping around.  They will also limit the rotational movement of the trucks.

These are made from 1-3/16” lengths of 3/8”x3/4” 1018 bar.  I cut four pieces, then milled the ends to length.

Next was to cut the rotational limiting tabs on each end of the side bearings.  These are supposed to be 1/8” thick, and 1/8” tall. I started by taking a swath out of the middle of the bearing.  I used this operation to set the depth of cut.
(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/008a-SideBearings-1-DSC_5374.jpg)

With the depth set, I just needed to finish off each end.  So I set the x axis so that it left 1/8” tab on the far end, like so:
(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/008a-SideBearings-2-DSC_5375.jpg)

Then I flipped the piece around and, using exactly the same settings, did the other side.
(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/008a-SideBearings-3-DSC_5378.jpg)

Next we need to make mounting holes.  I used a #37 drill for a close fitting 3-48 clearance hole.
(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/008a-SideBearings-4-DSC_5379.jpg)

And finally, I made a 3/8” counter sink with a #3 drill.  For both of these operations, I did one side, then flipped the part around to do the other side.
(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/008a-SideBearings-5-DSC_5381.jpg)

And here’s all four side bearings complete:
(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/008a-SideBearings-6-DSC_5384.jpg)

And now a family shot of all the truck parts I’ve made so far.  Going clockwise starting in the upper right hand corner we have the journal boxes, then the axle bearings, the lower bolsters, the upper bolsters, the columns, and the side bearings (in the center top).
(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/008a-SideBearings-7-DSC_5389.jpg)

And that, my friends, is all I could do today.  Doesn’t seem like so much, but it sure takes me a while to do it!

I’m getting pretty excited – all I have left for the trucks are the Arch Bars and the suspension springs!  And then, of course I have to paint them.  But it’s getting close!
Kim
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Dave Otto on January 21, 2019, 11:38:53 PM
Nice family shot Kim.
Everything looks great!

Dave
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Kim on January 26, 2019, 11:57:04 PM
Thanks Dave!  Didn't mean to ignore you there, guess I just forgot to reply!


Chapter 3.5 – Tie Bars and Arch Bars
Next up are the Tie Bars and the Arch Bars.  There are 3 different types of bars: the Tie Bars (7), the Lower Arch Bars (8 ), and the Upper Arch Bars (9). I thought I'd include this picture here since I know I couldn’t begin to imagine how it all came together without a picture:
(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/009a-TieAndArchBars-0-Capture.JPG)

Since there are 2 trucks, and each truck has two sets of wheels (one set on each side), we need to make 4 copies of each bar.  This will make for a total of 12 bars.

I made the bar blanks several weeks ago, back when I started the columns, since they needed some of the sheet stock cut to the same size.  You can look back in Reply 157  (http://www.modelenginemaker.com/index.php/topic,8552.msg191121.html#msg191121)  if you want to see that.

Before attacking the bars, I need to make the bar bending and drilling jig.  Now, this Jig doesn’t exactly help you to bend the parts, but it does help to make sure you bend them to the correct angles. To make the bending jig, I started with a 4 5/8” length of the same metal bar that will be  used for the Arch bars (3/32” thick).  I drilled 6 holes in it.  The two in the middle are for the columns, the 4 on the outside ends are for the journal boxes.
(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/009a-TieAndArchBars-1-DSC_5392.jpg)

Then I shaped, drilled and tapped the upright pieces.  There are two of these.  One for the Tie bar and the upper arch bar.  They have a 5/16” rise.  The other one is for the lower arch bar, which has a 1” rise.
(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/009a-TieAndArchBars-2-DSC_5394.jpg)

Here are the completed jig pieces, with it assembled for use on the 5/16” rise bars.
(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/009a-TieAndArchBars-3-DSC_5401.jpg)


For bending the bars, Kozo makes a more elaborate punch and die type bender that replaces the jaws in your vice.  I chose to just go ahead and use the soft jaws directly.  This won’t work for all parts, but it should work just fine for these.  I’m using the aluminum covered jaws on the vice, and a cheap pair of sheet metal hand seamers to bend the bar.
(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/009a-TieAndArchBars-4-DSC_5403.jpg)

This shows how your supposed to use the bending jig; It indicates how much bend to put in each side.  You have to make sure that the bar crosses the jig at the scribed line on both sides.
(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/009a-TieAndArchBars-5-DSC_5398.jpg)

Next I’ll bend the ends of the bars and then drill holes.  Oh yeah, and make another dozen of them!

Thanks for taking a look!
Kim
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: 10KPete on January 27, 2019, 12:42:34 AM
 :praise2:

 :popcorn: :popcorn:

 :cheers:

Pete
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Tennessee Whiskey on January 27, 2019, 01:44:24 AM
Ain’t said much, but, I’m really enjoying all this. These builds are definitely like the old “eating an elephant “ references: it’s just one bite at a time. Great work Kim.

Cletus
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: steamer on January 27, 2019, 02:13:01 AM
I remember reading the installment for making those arch bars......Yup   Eating the elephant!    coming along great Kim!

Dave
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: b.lindsey on January 27, 2019, 03:30:35 AM
Great progress Kim and that assembly picture helps a lot, though I am still looking forward to seeing them assembled and functional. Very impressive though!!

Bill
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Kim on January 27, 2019, 05:29:25 AM
Thanks Pete, Cletus, Dave, and Bill!
Appreciate the comments.

Though I can't claim to have actually eaten an elephant, the description sounds pretty apt.  One bite at a time.  :Lol:

Great progress Kim and that assembly picture helps a lot, though I am still looking forward to seeing them assembled and functional.
I looked at my original post and apparently my number 8 came out as a sunglasses guy (8), so I had to go back and add a space to keep the parser from turning into an emoji!  (I'd put the numbers in parentheses which is what created the emoji, like ( 8 ) but without the spaces).  Anyway, hopefully that makes a little more sense than the cool sunglasses guy  :embarassed:

And I'm looking forward to seeing it assembled too! Just a few more bites of the elephant, and I'll hit that milestone! :cartwheel:
Kim
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Steve17 on January 27, 2019, 08:34:38 AM
Looking really good and you've made it look so easy  :praise2:
Can't wait for the next instalment  :popcorn: :popcorn:

Steve.
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Kim on January 27, 2019, 05:38:09 PM
Thanks Steve!
Kim
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Roger B on February 04, 2019, 05:28:11 PM
Still following along and enjoying  :praise2:  :praise2:  :wine1: I like your stress relieving oven  :ThumbsUp:  :ThumbsUp: I must buy a few more insulating bricks  :)
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Kim on February 10, 2019, 12:33:36 AM
Thanks Roger! Yes, those bricks are a big help.  I've often thought I should get another set.  I keep wishing I had one or two more!

Kim
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Kim on February 10, 2019, 12:40:38 AM
My how time flies!  Not a lot of shop time over the last few weeks, but I finally got some time today. And it was quite enjoyable!

Last time I’d just started bending the Tie Bars.  I started with them because they were only 1/16” thick.  The Arch Bars are 3/32” thick! That’s getting pretty substantial!

After I bent the middle bends, I used the hole jig to drill the two middle holes to attach the columns.
(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/009b-TieAndarchBars-01-DSC_5404.jpg)

I wasn’t very happy with how this went.  It worked, but it just felt squishy to me.  I could wiggle the bar back and fortha bit and it just didn’t feel as precise as I would like.
(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/009b-TieAndarchBars-02-DSC_5407.jpg)

Regardless, I finished up bending the four tie bars.  This wasn’t a fast process.  It took 15-20 minutes per bar to get things bent correctly so that it all lined up, wass just the right height, and didn’t have any twists in it anywhere.  I just found it took a lot of tweaking.
(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/009b-TieAndarchBars-03-DSC_5408.jpg)

For the next set of bars (Lower Arch Bars) I used a different technique.  I calculated the location of the center holes and drilled them first.
(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/009b-TieAndarchBars-04-DSC_5412.jpg)

Then I marked the locations where the bends should go.
(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/009b-TieAndarchBars-05-DSC_5420.jpg)

The problem with drilling the holes first is that when you go to bend the bars, it wants to bend in the weakest spot – right where the hole is!  :Duh: But, as long as I clamped over the hole and bent the other side it worked just fine.  And I feel that the holes came out much more predictably.

Here’s one of the Lower Arch Bar fitted to the bending pattern.  Again, quite the time consuming process.
(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/009b-TieAndarchBars-06-DSC_5424.jpg)

And this picture shows the set of 12 bars with the column holes drilled and bent to shape.
(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/009b-TieAndarchBars-07-DSC_5425.jpg)

To drill the outer holes (the ones for the journal boxes) I was going to go back to the drilling jig. But before I did that, I needed to re-make the hole guide.  Turns out that my first attempt had a couple of problems.  First, the cross bar was too flimsy (I used 1/16” sheet material).  And second, the holes weren’t centered.  They were in the correct positions lengthwise, just not centered.  So, I made a new one using some 1/8” 1018 steel. This one turned out much better.  The bottom one is the original one (note the non-centered holes), and the top one is the new one (with the more centered hole pattern).
(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/009b-TieAndarchBars-14-DSC_5415.jpg)

And here’s how I drilled the holes for the journal boxes.  Attach one of the bars to the jig, like so:
(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/009b-TieAndarchBars-09-DSC_5436.jpg)

Flipping it over, you can see the template with the hole pattern.
(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/009b-TieAndarchBars-10-DSC_5437.jpg)

Then I just drilled the holes!  The little brass bar clamp is just to keep the bars aligned with the jig.
(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/009b-TieAndarchBars-08-DSC_5434.jpg)

And did the same thing with the Upper Arch Bar and the Tie Bar (they are the same, with the exception of the thickness of the bar).
(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/009b-TieAndarchBars-11-DSC_5440.jpg)

And finally, we have all 12 bars bent and drilled!
(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/009b-TieAndarchBars-12-DSC_5443.jpg)

By this time it was getting to be the end of my shop time but I just had to get one of the frames assembled:
(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/009b-TieAndarchBars-13-DSC_5445.jpg)

You can’t imagine how happy this little piece here made me!  I still have to cut the bars to the correct length, but that’ll be the next step.

Getting close to having the trucks complete!

Thanks for looking in,
Kim
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: b.lindsey on February 10, 2019, 12:47:31 AM
That is a lot of tedious work there Kim, but it sure looks good assembled. One down, three to go  :cartwheel:

Bill
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Dave Otto on February 10, 2019, 01:10:35 AM
Nice progress Kim!

Dave
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: crueby on February 10, 2019, 01:17:07 AM
Very nice!

Those little brass bar clamps are handy, got a set of those that come out once in a while for holding bits on.
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Kim on February 10, 2019, 05:46:22 AM
Thanks Bill, Dave, and Chris,

Yeah, those little brass bar clamps do com in handy from time to time.  You can't exert a lot of pressure with them, but for little things like this, the work great!  Those are from back when i was doing some ship modeling.

Kim
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Ye-Ole Steam Dude on February 10, 2019, 10:04:00 AM
Hello Kim,

Coming along quite nicely.

Have a great day,
Thomas
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Steve17 on February 10, 2019, 01:02:38 PM
Really taking shape now, it sure is time consuming putting holes in bent bars and getting it all to tie up.

Steve.
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: kvom on February 10, 2019, 01:04:04 PM
I hadn't seen that type of bar clamp before.  Looks useful.  Good progress being made.
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Kim on February 10, 2019, 04:26:34 PM
Thomas, Steve and Kvom,
Thanks for stopping by and taking a look!  I do appreciate it :)

Kim
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Admiral_dk on February 10, 2019, 10:01:41 PM
Very nice build so far Kim  :praise2:

I'm enjoying your progress and parts made  :cheers:    :popcorn:
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Tennessee Whiskey on February 10, 2019, 11:33:50 PM
Really nice Kim. I admire how you try to hold everything to the closet tolerance in the beginning and that pays off in the end. If you have more bending to do, think about hardwood dies. They can easily be cut and shaped, the grain isn’t going to split, and, you can easily adjust angles for springback. For thinner stocks, something about the wood makes things slide easier.

Cletus
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Kim on February 10, 2019, 11:40:37 PM
Thanks Admiral and Cletus,
Hadn't thought about using Wood for a die for bending... Wonder if it would hold up to repeated use (repeated 10-12 times).  The Aluminum jaws on my vise were starting to deform some on the edges after working over the dozen parts I had to make here!
Interesting idea for sure.  One I'll have to consider in the future :)  Guess its not that much different than using hard wood for forming copper, eh?
Kim
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: matthew-s on February 11, 2019, 01:24:52 AM
Nice work! I found the arch bars to be tricky - and that was with brass!

Figuring out where to start the bends, especially on the ends that hold the axle blocks, was particularly fussy - it’s hard to get the height right while nailing the position of the bend. Too long and it interferes with the screw heads (especially if using  hex heads). Too short and it does not look right, or at least hard to get them to look identical front to back.
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Kim on February 11, 2019, 05:22:59 AM
Thank you Matthew!
Yes, those were quite the fiddly bits to be sure!

I'd love to see your Pennsy.  Do you have a build thread going?  Don't remember seeing it.  If not, you should one and post a few progress photos!

Kim
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: matthew-s on February 11, 2019, 12:01:56 PM

I'd love to see your Pennsy.  Do you have a build thread going?  Don't remember seeing it.  If not, you should one and post a few progress photos!

Kim

I will try to remember to create one and show an occasional progress photo. I get so little shop time I try to maximize it. If folks would find value with random leaps of progress I’ll try to pull one together  :)
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Steve17 on February 11, 2019, 09:00:00 PM
Hi Kim,
I was always recommend to go down to a Lawn bowling club and ask if they had any split woods. They are rock hard and stable.

Steve.
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Kim on February 19, 2019, 02:24:12 AM
Thanks for the pointer Steve!

Here's my update for this weekend.

It took me a while to come up with a way to cut the bars to length, but this is what I ended up doing; I made a stack-up of the bars – not in the right order, but all in the same orientation.  I included the hole jig in the stack-up and used that as the reference length.

In this picture, the bottom is a correctly assembled truck frame.  On the top, is the various bars, assembled with the jig, ready to be cut to length.  You can see that the bars are in a different order in the stack, but all are the correct orientation.
(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/009c-TenderArchBars-01-DSC_5454.jpg)

Here is one of the stack-ups being milled to length.
(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/009c-TenderArchBars-02-DSC_5446.jpg)

To assemble the trucks, I needed some #3-48 1/4" round-head screws.  And I couldn’t find any 1/4" for sale.  I found 1/8”, and 5/16”, but no 1/4".  Not a lot of difference but the 5/16” were just too long.  Since I need a bunch of 3-48 x 1/4" I made a jig to help me cut them to size more quickly.  I know I’ve seen this several other places on this forum, but I don’t remember exactly who showed it, so will just give general credit to the list :).  I drilled and tapped a bunch of holes in a scrap piece of 1/4" aluminum bar then filled all the holes with the screws to be shortened.
(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/009c-TenderArchBars-03-DSC_5449.jpg)

I put the whole jig in the mill upside-down, and shaved off the excess lenght.
(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/009c-TenderArchBars-04-DSC_5451.jpg)

I was able to do 8 screws at a whack this way which made it pretty fast to do a bunch of them. And unscrewing them from the jig helped clean up the threads.  Worked a treat.
(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/009c-TenderArchBars-05-DSC_5453.jpg)

After I test assembled all the truck frames, I found they weren’t quite square with the world.  They would wiggle around when placed on a flat surface.  So I used the vice and a crescent wrench to encourage them to lay flat.
(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/009c-TenderArchBars-06-DSC_5458.jpg)

And here are all four of the truck frames!
(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/009c-TenderArchBars-07-DSC_5460.jpg)

With them all assembled successfully, it was time to take them apart and carefully mark each piece so I can get them back together in the same way.  I still have to assemble them around the bolsters!  If you look closely, you might be able to see the little numbers punched into the inside of the journal boxes.  There are numbers on the inside of each end of the bars and columns too.
(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/009c-TenderArchBars-09-DSC_5467.jpg)

I’m getting close to assembly time for the trucks, and before I get there, I needed to Loctite the wheels to the axles.  I’ve not used Loctite 680 before, but it is thick green stuff. It says it is designed for slip-fit joints. It was a bit messy, but seems to have worked pretty well!
(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/009c-TenderArchBars-10-DSC_5457.jpg)

The last thing needed before I can assemble the trucks are the suspension springs. So, first I made the mandrel (0.145” diameter).  And then I tried making a spring.  I forgot to take a picture of that – maybe next time!  But here’s my first attempt.  It seemed to go, OK, but my second attempt isn’t really worth showing.  I’m going to have to practice this!
(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/009c-TenderArchBars-08-DSC_5464.jpg)

That’s my weekend’s accomplishment.
Kim
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: 10KPete on February 19, 2019, 02:43:58 AM
Those arch bars look really good, Kim. I've never built anything that didn't require tweaking, especially bent stuff. I'm eagerly awaiting the day those all go together!
 :ThumbsUp: :ThumbsUp:
 :popcorn: :popcorn:

Pete
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Kim on February 19, 2019, 04:40:29 AM
Thanks Pete!  Appreciate the encouragement :)
Kim
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: b.lindsey on February 19, 2019, 01:13:33 PM
They look fantastic Kim. Also looking forward to seeing the trucks assembled. Do you have a section of track to try them out on?

Bill
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: steamer on February 19, 2019, 01:45:54 PM
Yes those are looking fantastic!   Now do they stay bolted together?  or do you silver solder them once complete?   :headscratch:


Dave
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Kim on February 19, 2019, 07:33:57 PM
Dave, this part just remains bolted together as best as I can tell.  Hopefully that's good enough?  I'm sure it will be for the number of miles (feet?  inches?) my loco will run :)

Bill, no, I don't have any track!  That's something I'm going to have to figure out soon here, isn't it!

Kim
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: kvom on February 19, 2019, 10:39:38 PM
Any material can be used for "shop" tracks.  Just need to make the gauge correct.
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Kim on February 25, 2019, 12:38:21 AM
Chapter 3.6 – Coil Springs
Now to do the coil springs.  Yesterday, I started making the springs in earnest.  Or what I should really say, is making practices springs!  ::)

After a while, I got a process down.  I tried free hand first, but that didn’t work so well. They just didn’t look even.  So I set my lathe to do 12 TPI threads and used that to lay the coils. That worked quite well and made things look very regular.  The reason I didn't start that way is because doing course threads like this required a gear change and I wanted to avoid that.  I should have just started that way. It was clearly MUCH better! 

I would lay a couple of rounds very close, engage the half-nut, run about 7 turns, then disengage the half-nut and make a couple more close turns.  I got better at this with practice too.  Here’s a pretty nice one just before it came off the manderel:
(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/010a-TenderCoilSprings-1-DSC_5470.jpg)

And here’s my fleet of springs (and garbage) from my work. The bottom row are my initial practice springs and me trying to get the right TPI spacing on the coils.  The upper row is as I was improving.
(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/010a-TenderCoilSprings-2-DSC_5471.jpg)

This is also straight out of  Kozo’s book.  I punched a 1/4" hole in a piece of scrap and clamped it onto the rest on my grinder.  This worked really well to flatten of the ends of the coils and get them to the correct length.
(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/010a-TenderCoilSprings-3-DSC_5475.jpg)

And the final contenders for the springs.  I chose the best 8 of these to use in the trucks. The others are spares for when I inevitably lose one.
(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/010a-TenderCoilSprings-4-DSC_5480.jpg)

Then it was finally time to assemble the trucks.  This took an inordinate amount of time. There are a lot of pieces and the all have a specific direction to go.  When I got the second frame assembled, I realized I’d done the first one upside down.  So, I fixed that. Then I realized I’d done the second one inside out.  So, I re-did that.  It took me till the last side frame to get it together right the first time.  Then I realized I had to put the wheels in before I got it all assembled.  So back apart and together again!
(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/010a-TenderCoilSprings-5-DSC_5481.jpg)

Anyway, after all that, I’m super pleased with how they look. They are just a bit too fun!  :cartwheel:
(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/010a-TenderCoilSprings-6-DSC_5485.jpg)

Next, I get to start on the frame for the tender!

Thanks for watching,
Kim
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: cnr6400 on February 25, 2019, 04:07:23 AM
Hi Kim, looks like spring's a bit early this year in your shop!  :naughty:

Everything looks just great on the trucks! well done.  :ThumbsUp: :ThumbsUp: :ThumbsUp: :popcorn: :popcorn: :popcorn:
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: 10KPete on February 25, 2019, 04:40:15 AM
There's no doubt that you know how to assemble those trucks now! Beautiful! I'd want a bit of track to roll 'em around on.... toot toot...   And you now know how to make springs. Excellent! :ThumbsUp:

 :cheers:

Pete
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Kim on February 25, 2019, 05:53:55 AM
Hi Kim, looks like spring's a bit early this year in your shop!  :naughty:
  :Lol:
Yeah, I wish. They're saying its going to snow more tonight!  ::)

Thanks CNR and Pete!  Yes, I think I've got the assembly process down.  And if not now, I will after I take it apart, paint it, and re-assemble!  :o

Kim
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: gary.a.ayres on February 25, 2019, 09:33:28 AM
Superb work, I reckon.

 :ThumbsUp:

gary
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Ye-Ole Steam Dude on February 25, 2019, 10:04:15 AM
Hello Kim,

More beautiful craftsmanship from your shop. Really enjoying following this build.

Have a great day,
Thomas
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Admiral_dk on February 25, 2019, 11:48:34 AM
Fantastic result Kim - the springs and trucks looks amassing  :praise2:

If I had walked and started commenting on the result I would have say that the boogies looks great, but you call them trucks - is this a country specific name ? :noidea:
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: joe d on February 25, 2019, 12:12:56 PM
Looking great, Kim!  You're giving me a flashback to the late 60's... "Keep on Truckin' Brother...."

Cheers, Joe
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: b.lindsey on February 25, 2019, 12:58:14 PM
Very very nice Kim!! I can definitely see where the assembly could get a bit confusing too  :headscratch:

Bill
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Kim on February 25, 2019, 06:18:24 PM
Hi Gary, Thomas, Admiral, Joe, and Bill,
Thanks for stopping by to have a look!  I'm pretty pumped about it for sure :)
Kim
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Kim on February 25, 2019, 06:23:35 PM
Fantastic result Kim - the springs and trucks looks amassing  :praise2:

If I had walked and started commenting on the result I would have say that the boogies looks great, but you call them trucks - is this a country specific name ? :noidea:

Interesting observation.  Yeah, I've heard of bogies before.  I was into Lego trains for many years (I am an Adult Fan of Lego (AFOL, if you will)) and since Lego is based out of Europe, the parts to make the truck were always called bogies.  I never understood it, but used the term.  I had to look this up. And of course, Wiki has the answer:

From: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bogie (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bogie)
"A bogie in the UK, or a railroad truck, wheel truck, or simply truck in North America, is a structure underneath a railway vehicle (wagon, coach or locomotive) to which axles (and, hence, wheels) are attached through bearings. In Indian English, bogie may also refer to an entire railway carriage.[4] In South Africa, the term bogie is often alternatively used to refer to a freight or goods wagon (shortened from bogie wagon)."

So, yes, you're right.  It's one of those differences caused by the Atlantic ocean apparently - bogie vs truck.

I learn something every day on this forum!
Kim

Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: crueby on February 25, 2019, 06:30:09 PM
Fantastic result Kim - the springs and trucks looks amassing  :praise2:

If I had walked and started commenting on the result I would have say that the boogies looks great, but you call them trucks - is this a country specific name ? :noidea:

Interesting observation.  Yeah, I've heard of bogies before.  I was into Lego trains for many years (I am an Adult Fan of Lego (AFOL, if you will)) and since Lego is based out of Europe, the parts to make the truck were always called bogies.  I never understood it, but used the term.  I had to look this up. And of course, Wiki has the answer:

From: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bogie (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bogie)
"A bogie in the UK, or a railroad truck, wheel truck, or simply truck in North America, is a structure underneath a railway vehicle (wagon, coach or locomotive) to which axles (and, hence, wheels) are attached through bearings. In Indian English, bogie may also refer to an entire railway carriage.[4] In South Africa, the term bogie is often alternatively used to refer to a freight or goods wagon (shortened from bogie wagon)."

So, yes, you're right.  It's one of those differences caused by the Atlantic ocean apparently - bogie vs truck.

I learn something every day on this forum!
Kim
I was wondering about that too, figured it was one of those regional or time things. Though it does get more complicated if you need to transport a wheel assembly to the shop across town - do you put the bogie on the truck (flatbed, that is), or the truck on the truck, or the truck on the lorry....  :insane:
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: MJM460 on February 25, 2019, 09:25:22 PM
Bogies and trucks, points and switches, sleepers and ties, a different language is used in the US, the rest of us have to be bilingual!

But strangely they use the UK version in Georgia, but then you have to understand the rest of their lingo.

You sometimes have strange experiences on a multinational project.  Can catch you out sometimes, just when you think you know what’s going on.

MJM460

Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: kvom on February 25, 2019, 10:05:04 PM
As compared to a bogey, which is completely different. 
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Dave Otto on February 25, 2019, 11:29:29 PM
Nice family shot Kim.
They look great!

Dave
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Kim on February 25, 2019, 11:59:50 PM
Thanks Dave, Kvom, and MJM,
Kim
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Kim on March 10, 2019, 01:36:16 AM
Last week I painted the tender trucks.  I took them all apart and spray painted them with a flat black paint.  I’m using Rust-oleum High Temp. I figure this is what I’ll need for the boiler and firebox, so just decided to use it for everything that’s black (which is almost everything!).
(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/011a-TenderTrucksPaint-1-DSC_5488.jpg)

Here’s the family shot, after I took the tape off of everything.
(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/011a-TenderTrucksPaint-2-DSC_5491.jpg)

And here we are after assembly. There are already bumps and marks that I’m going to have to touch up!
(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/011a-TenderTrucksPaint-3-DSC_5496.jpg)

That does it for the trucks!
Kim
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Kim on March 10, 2019, 01:41:37 AM
Today, I started on the Tender Frame.  The first part will be the frame sides. Which Kozo calls the Side Sills. 

Chapter 4.1 – Side Sills
There are two of these, a left and a right.  They are pretty much the same.

I cut two lengths of 5/16” x 5/8” 1018 bar stock, 15 3/16” long.  The part is 15 1/8 but I left a bit to clean up the ends.  Since these pieces are staying mostly intact, I didn’t bother to stress relieve them.  Though I did use my vice and some brute force to get them as straight as possible!

But before I did a lot of work on these long pieces, I decided it was worth investing some time to tram the mill.  I also squared up the vise.
(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/012a-SideSills-1-DSC_5498.jpg)

With that taken care of, I clamped the pair of bars in the vise and cleaned up one end.
(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/012a-SideSills-2-DSC_5503.jpg)

With one edge clearly defined, I used that as my reference to drill the holes in the side that will hold the bolsters. These are identical holes through both left and right sides. Then I made a 82o counter sink in each hole:
(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/012a-SideSills-3-DSC_5504.jpg)

Before taking the side sills out of the vice, I placed #3 screws in each hole and bolted it up to keep the pieces perfectly aligned.
(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/012a-SideSills-4-DSC_5514.jpg)

Then I was able to release the vise and moved the part to where I could reach the other end of it to clean them both up to exactly 15 1/8”.
(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/012a-SideSills-5-DSC_5507.jpg)

Following that, I flipped it over and made counter sinks on the outside of the other sill. Guess I didn’t have to keep the two sides lined up for this operation, but I did anyway.  I also marked them so I’d know which way was ‘top’ on both sides.
(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/012a-SideSills-6-DSC_5516.jpg)

And here are the mostly completed side sills.
(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/012a-SideSills-7-DSC_5518.jpg)

I still need to drill and tap holes in each end, but I’m going to wait on those till I can use the holes in the front and rear sills as guides to make sure they line up well.  But that will be for next time!

Thanks for taking a look,
Kim

Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: fumopuc on March 10, 2019, 06:26:05 AM
Hi Kim, nice family shot. They are looking good these trucks.
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: cnr6400 on March 10, 2019, 01:36:38 PM
Sills look great Kim.  :ThumbsUp: :ThumbsUp: :ThumbsUp:Re your lineup marks - maybe not strictly required in this case, but I think it's a good habit to get into to "think precision" in all ops. The easy ones are still easy but the tough ones are less tough, with this approach.

Standing by with  :popcorn:!
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: b.lindsey on March 10, 2019, 02:10:00 PM
Still making some nice progress Kim. The finished trucks look great!!!

Bill
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Kim on March 10, 2019, 04:48:22 PM
Thanks Achim, Cnr and Bill!
Kim
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Kim on March 10, 2019, 04:54:35 PM
Sills look great Kim.  :ThumbsUp: :ThumbsUp: :ThumbsUp:Re your lineup marks - maybe not strictly required in this case, but I think it's a good habit to get into to "think precision" in all ops. The easy ones are still easy but the tough ones are less tough, with this approach.

Standing by with  :popcorn:!
Yeah, you're right, it may not make much, if any difference in this case.  But since I machined them together this way I just want to be able to keep track of that. Sometimes it does matter, so I just try to maintain good habits :)
Kim
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Tennessee Whiskey on March 10, 2019, 05:10:49 PM
Excellent work Kim. Might be time to think about a powder coating setup ( won’t chip as bad) BTW, a truck is also the adornment on top of a flagpole  8). Following along  :popcorn: :DrinkPint:

Cletus
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Kim on March 10, 2019, 05:15:38 PM
Interesting thought, Cletus!  I may have to look into that.  Do you know if powder coating is ok with getting hot?  Like around a boiler or fire box?   :thinking:
Kim
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Tennessee Whiskey on March 10, 2019, 05:18:42 PM
Don’t really know. Check out Eastwood’s website. I’ve been seriously thinking about it what for the chipping reasons. I know KVOM and Stan both use theirs.

Cletus

Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Tennessee Whiskey on March 10, 2019, 10:14:12 PM
Here’s some more info

https://www.powderbuythepound.com/high-temp-gloss-black.html

Cletus
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Steamer5 on March 12, 2019, 05:06:13 AM
Hi Kim,
 Coming on nicely!

Check out Nelson’s site for using hi temppowdercoat, I got inspired by this & got my kit about well way to long ago, still to be used!

http://www.nelsonslocomotive.com/

Oh if nothing else it’s a great site to spend several hours reading!

Cheers Kerrin
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Kim on March 31, 2019, 04:09:02 PM
Yesterday, I completed the Front and Rear End Sills and attached them to the side sills.  It was a pretty good day, but ended in frustration.  :wallbang:

Chapter 4.2 – Front End Sill and Rear End Sill
These will go on the front and back of the side sills to make a complete rectangle for the tender frame.

The Front End Sill and Rear End Sill both started as lengths of 5/8” square 12L14.  Cut to length and squared up to size.
These are not really very remarkable in any way. They just have a few through holes and tapped holes.

So I set to work on the Front End Sill first.  These are #3 clearance holes for the screws that will hold the Front End to the Side Sills.  And this shot is just after completing the 82o countersink in each of them.
(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/013a-FrontAndRearEndSills-01-DSC_5522.jpg)

There are a bunch of #3-48 tapped holes too, but apparently, I didn’t get a picture of those.

On to the Rear End Sill.  This is very similar to the Front End Sill, but its 1/8” longer. The Rear End sill will stick out from the side sills by 1/16” on each side. The #3 countersink clearance holes are the same but the #3-48 tapped holes are all different.

There are also some holes for the rear coupler.  These will need to be drilled when I get that assembly completed.  But now that I have it all dialed in on the mill, I chose to leave a few marks on ‘about’ where they should go so that it's easier to position when I get to that point.  I scribed these with a small engraving bit I have.  It did the job nicely.
(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/013a-FrontAndRearEndSills-02-DSC_5524.jpg)

The Rear End Sill also has a couple of #8-36 tapped holes. These will be for rail posts down the line.
(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/013a-FrontAndRearEndSills-03-DSC_5527.jpg)

Here are the completed Front End and Rear End Sills.
(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/013a-FrontAndRearEndSills-04-DSC_5530.jpg)

Now for the fun!  I hadn’t quite figured out yet how I was going to drill and tap the holes in the ends of the Side Sills.  These things are over 15” long and even with my new big mill I don’t have the Z height to stand them up on end and still get the drill chuck and a bit in there. So, I worked out this method.  I awkwardly clamped the two pieces together, like this.  I had scrap pieces on the back and the side to help with alignment. You really can't make out what I did in this picture, can you?  Well, it seemed to work regardless.  :embarassed:
I used the clearance bit through the End Sill just to make a center hole.  Then I switched to the correct size for taping and continued to use the End Sill as a guide to help me keep the hole straight.  You can see the cordless drill sitting there on the vise waiting to do his job.
(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/013a-FrontAndRearEndSills-05-DSC_5536.jpg)

With the hole drilled, I took away all the fixturing, and making sure to clamp the piece at 90o to the vice jaws, I used a tap guide to help me tap the hole.  Again, this seemed to work pretty well.  Notice that I clamped the guide in place for added stability.
(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/013a-FrontAndRearEndSills-06-DSC_5539.jpg)

Unfortunately, this is where calamity struck.  On the LAST hole, I must have gotten a little careless, because I heard the dreaded crunching sound.  :o :'( :Mad:  I don’t know exactly what happened. I’d swear I was doing exactly the same thing as the other 7 holes I’d done this way. But clearly, I did something wrong.  Well, actually, I do know that I didn’t clamp the tapping guide in place.  I’d stopped doing that for the last several holes, just depending on my other hand to hold it in place.  That had worked for several holes.  But then this. Clearly, I let it shift or did something wrong.  Because here I am now with a two-piece tap, with one piece embedded firmly about 3/8” down in the hole. :wallbang:
(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/013a-FrontAndRearEndSills-07-DSC_5541.jpg)

There was no backing it out.  It's still there:
(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/013a-FrontAndRearEndSills-08-DSC_5543.jpg)

I’m considering what to do. While the tap is HSS, the part is also steel. So I don’t think the Alum trick will work (though I’ve only had marginal success with that in the past anyway).  I’m trying to think of a way to cut the tap out, but there’s so little material to work with.  The hole is centred 1/8” away from the top edge. And to make it worse, I don’t really have a way to get it in the mill to work on it.

My top thought at the moment is to see if I can chip away enough of the end of the tap to get a few threads exposed, then I can just make a VERY short screw to go in on top of it.

I’m open to suggestions.

So, ignoring that issue for the time being, I assembled the frame:
(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/013a-FrontAndRearEndSills-09-DSC_5546.jpg)
I was very careful in setting up which end of which sill went together.  But in the end, when I went to assemble it, I realized I’d completely forgotten to take into account that the Side Sills are NOT symmetrical. They middle bolsters are in different places from each end.  And of course, I can never accidentally orient things correctly, so had done it backwards.  But, on the bright side, my holes were uniform enough that even with turning things around, all the edges still line up beautifully!  So that’s one positive!  :)

Now I just need to deal with the half a tap that’s embedded in the frame there…
(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/013a-FrontAndRearEndSills-10-DSC_5547.jpg)

Thanks for taking a look at my trials and tribulations,
Kim
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Dave Otto on March 31, 2019, 04:46:24 PM
Bummer on the tap Kim, you will probably invest more time in trying to remove it than just remaking the part.

Not sure if you mill has enough travel that would allow you to hang your part off the front of the table, while clamped to an angle plate. Rotate the turret of your mill off center to be able to reach the part.
On the Bridgeport style mills being able to extend the ram helps with getting the spindle centered over the part. I don't think your mill has a ram? 

I have drilled cutting taps out using a center cutting 4 flute carbide end mill taking very small bites using the depth stop on the quill to control that. With a roll form tap you would need to use a large enough end mill to remove all of the tap followed with a thread insert (Helicoil). Oh and it usually takes more than one end mill to get through the tap.

Dave 
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Florian Eberhard on March 31, 2019, 04:46:40 PM
Hey Kim

I would either try using a "plug drill bit" (selfmade from some kind of tool steel) to drill around the broken tap, then cut a bigger thread into that beam and put a threaded sleeve into it.
Or you cut off a short piece, machine a step onto it and then make another part which is being screwed, silver soldered (would be my favourite) or riveted to the original beam to make it long enough again.

To machine the end of the beam, you could probably use your lathe and clamp the bar in the toolholder while the tool gets put into the lathe spindle (ideally with coolets)

Florian
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: crueby on March 31, 2019, 05:17:11 PM
Last couple of times I had that happen I used a small pointed diamond-coated dental bur in the high speed  rotary tool to grind out the center of the tap, then could wiggle out the outer teeth/flutes with tweezers. Care is needed to keep from damaging the threads, but it works.
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: b.lindsey on March 31, 2019, 05:31:04 PM
Bummer on the tap Kim, but the frame is looking good none the less. I would probably just remake, the one with the broken tap. Likely quicker in the long run.

Bill
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: cnr6400 on March 31, 2019, 06:21:56 PM
Hi Kim, do you know any mouldmakers? or any other local shop with EDM? If you were on this side of the continent you'd be welcome to drop by my shop to use my home-built EDM machine based on the Ben Fleming design. I would use a hex shaped brass electrode a little smaller than the thread and blow a hole a few mm deep into the tap. Then a normal allen key can be used to ease the tap out. For your next tapped holes, can I recommend a nice new sharp tap, and a few drops of some some good cutting oil?
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Kim on March 31, 2019, 06:27:17 PM
Thanks Dave, Florian, Chris, and Bill,
Appreciate the commiseration and the advice.

Dave, actually my mill does have a Ram head, and that a great idea!  I've got to learn how to use the capabilities of my new tools. I have to learn to think differently...

Florian, another good idea.  I've seen people do this - put the part on the cross-slide and the tool in the spindle.  I don't have T-slots in the tool holder platform on my lathe, so I'd have to come up with some way to hold things, but that's probably workable.

I like the Dental burr idea too, Chris.  May have to try that before I abandon the part.

Bill, I may remake the part.  Unfortunately, this is a large piece and I don't have enough to make a new one without ordering more.  The steel is cheap (
Its 1018) but the shippings a killer...  but probably still cheaper than a couple of carbide end mills!

Thank you all for helping me to think of options.  I really appreciate it.
Kim
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Kim on March 31, 2019, 06:31:03 PM
Thank you Cnr,
I didn't see your post till I'd replied.

The EDM sounds magical! I think I need one of those :)

Yeah, new tap seems in order for sure  :)
Kim
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: crueby on March 31, 2019, 07:09:37 PM
If you have another small chunk of the same steel, you could always cut off the end and silver solder a new end on it. I did that on my Shay frames after a measure-once-cut-twice boo-boo.
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: fumopuc on March 31, 2019, 08:16:23 PM
Hi Kim, I feel your pain, but as already said, remake seems to be the best option.
And spend some more money for industrial quality tabs.
My two Cent after banning the Chinese stuff from my shop.
What may be the reason for that ban ?
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Dave Otto on March 31, 2019, 08:43:01 PM


Dave, actually my mill does have a Ram head, and that a great idea!  I've got to learn how to use the capabilities of my new tools. I have to learn to think differently...


Thank you all for helping me to think of options.  I really appreciate it.
Kim

I was looking for a picture, but me and the forum search tool don't always get along.  :lolb:

Dave
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: cnr6400 on March 31, 2019, 10:40:05 PM
Kim, I just went back through your pictures in the posts above. The tap in the pics does not appear to have flutes, or maybe just one flute. Are you using thread forming taps in steel, rather than the more usual spiral pointed "gun" taps or "plug" taps? If you are using fluteless or thread forming taps in steel, I would expect you may have lots of breakages.

The gun taps will cut better and faster than any other kind I have used, especially in thru-holes. If using them in blind holes they have to be backed out and cleared of chips every few turns.

Just to give you an idea of the ones I mean you can see them at the following McMaster Carr link. I do prefer Butterfield or FEW brand HSS taps though, for quality of thread and staying sharp the longest.

https://www.mcmaster.com/spiral-point-taps

If you already know about all this, or if I'm not seeing the taps correctly in your pics, please excuse me for stating the obvious - just disregard it. Standing by with  :popcorn: :popcorn: :popcorn: for your next progress post.
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Kim on March 31, 2019, 11:01:08 PM
If you have another small chunk of the same steel, you could always cut off the end and silver solder a new end on it. I did that on my Shay frames after a measure-once-cut-twice boo-boo.
Considering this.  though as has been said, likely more trouble than its worth, but I might give it a shot anyway.  Maybe I'll go to double the work to NOT have to re-do work :)  But not 4x.  And Definitely not 10x. I have my limits!  :Lol:

Hi Kim, I feel your pain, but as already said, remake seems to be the best option.
And spend some more money for industrial quality tabs.
My two Cent after banning the Chinese stuff from my shop.
What may be the reason for that ban ?
Thanks Achim,  yeah, might go the remake route.  But I'm going to struggle with it for a bit before I go that way. Even though its likely the best option  ;)

I was looking for a picture, but me and the forum search tool don't always get along.  :lolb:
Yes, I've found the same.  The search engine built into the forum software is marginal at best.  I tend to have better luck just doing a google search and including "ModelEnginenMaker" in the search.  I often get better forum results that way!
Kim

Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Kim on March 31, 2019, 11:15:15 PM
Hi Cnr,
Yes, you're seeing right. I'm using forming taps. And I've used them in steel before and they have mostly worked - I try to stay under 75% threads. These should have been about 60%. But maybe that is part of the problem.  They work well in the 12L14.  I've used them in 1018 quite a bit and haven't had any significant problems that I can recall (and I tend to recall this kind of problem). But clearly I can't say that any more!  So maybe I'm asking too much from them?

You're thinking I should go to a spiral tap for the 1018 steel?  I'm OK with getting more tools :)  May have to consider this.

If you already know about all this, or if I'm not seeing the taps correctly in your pics, please excuse me for stating the obvious - just disregard it.
Cnr, please never worry about that in any reply to me.  Even if I know it, it won't hurt to hear it again. And if people hold back giving me good advise, I'm the worse for it!  Besides, even if I knew it, I wasn't taking advantage of my knowledge because I clearly broke the tap! This is exactly why I share my foibles (and there are plenty of them!);  so I can learn and get incrementally better with every screw-up. ( I mean, I already messed up, so I might as well get something worthwhile out of it, right?  :Lol: )

Looks like I might be asking too much out of the form taps?  They've done so well for me in the past, even in steel.  But if they are going to be questionable, maybe I should invest in some spiral cutting taps or something else?  Am I asking too much from a form tap when it comes to 1018?  what about stainless (303)?

Thanks,
Kim
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Dave Otto on April 01, 2019, 12:09:44 AM
Hi Kim

You should be able roll form tap any ductile material including SS. Personally for hand tapping I would rather use a cutting tap, and that is not saying hand tapping with a form tap is wrong; just my preference. I wouldn't hesitate to run a form tap under power in a machine or with a tapping head, but hand tap, probably not.
I think the form tap will be less forgiving to any misalignment. Another thing to consider as this is a forming operation and not a cutting one, the choice of lube may be different than with a cut tap. I would have to do some poking around to see what might be better.    Moly-Dee maybe?

Dave
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Kim on April 01, 2019, 12:26:29 AM
Thanks Dave, appreciate the input.

I've been using my general purpose lube for the forming tap too - Magic Tap.  It has worked pretty well for most things, but I clearly don't know what would be best. It's just what I've got handy.

My reasoning for the form taps is that since they don't have any flutes, they have a larger cross-section and therefore should be stronger.  Again, this was my thinking (though I do think I read that somewhere, it still doesn't mean its correct).  Plus, I've had much better luck with the form taps than with cutting taps.

Or, at least I think I have.  It's hard to say though. I broke more taps early in my model machining career than I have lately. But that may or may not be only the tap. Hopefully, I'm getting better at my setups and keeping things carefully aligned during tapping. That might skew things to looking better regardless.  Over the last several years I've switched almost exclusively to form taps. I've been attributing my better luck with tapping to this.  But there are so many variables.  The form taps I've purchased are much higher quality than the cheap Chinese cutting taps I used initially. That, and the experience thing make me wonder if my faith in form taps might be misplaced. Help! I'm having an existential tap crisis!  :help:  :Jester:

I think I'll be looking at getting some quality cutting taps and seeing how those serve me...
Kim

Kim
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Kim on April 01, 2019, 12:29:34 AM
OK, my current-most-likely-plan-of-attack is to cut a 5/16”x 3/4" chunk from the corner of the side sill and silver solder a little piece of steel back in its place.

My first step would be to use a slitting saw to cut underneath the broken tap and then use an end mill to remove the chunk from the main part.  This way I don’t have to mill through the tap.
(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/013a-FrontAndRearEndSills-11-DSC_5549.jpg)


Then I’ll clean up the notch, cut an appropriately sized piece of steel, and solder in place.

I won’t get around to this till next weekend at the earliest, so I’m still not committed.  Please feel free to comment if you have any thoughts/recommendations.

Thanks,
Kim

Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: kvom on April 01, 2019, 12:33:07 AM
Powder coating will be fine for everything except for possibly the stack.  Curing temp is typically 400F.  I've been using it on my latest project and don't expect to paint any models henceforth.
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Kim on April 01, 2019, 01:04:01 AM
Thanks Kvom,
I've been looking into powder coating and think I know what I'll be asking for for my Birthday!  :)  Seems like a great idea!  Always game to try something new!
Kim
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Florian Eberhard on April 01, 2019, 05:41:59 PM
Hey Kim

Why not using the hacksaw to cut that out and clean up with an endmill? IMHO, this should be the fastest way. (at least if your hacksaw blade is sharp)

Florian
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: kvom on April 01, 2019, 07:52:31 PM
Is the tapped hole really that deep?

You could try drilling it out using a carbide endmill.
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Kim on April 01, 2019, 10:08:06 PM
That's a good idea Florian!  Hack saw shouldn't be too hard :)

Kvom, well, its not 3/4" deep, but the tap is at least 3/8" deep, maybe a smidge more.
Kim
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Tennessee Whiskey on April 01, 2019, 10:47:33 PM
Commisioneratios on the tap. You’re on the right track: nip that corner out nice and square, silver solder in an oversized piece, and mill to dimension. Painting or powder coating will hide all sins. Nobody but us will know in the end. Just a Cletus POV  :lolb:

Cletus
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: rklopp on April 03, 2019, 12:50:48 AM
I love form taps for making threads in softer metals like 1018 even when hand tapping. I avoid cut taps whenever possible. I am surprised yours broke, especially if going for 60% thread. Did you use the tap drill size for 60% thread based on form tapping or cut tapping? My form tapping charts say to use a #43 drill @ 0.089" to get a 70% thread. A 2.3-mm drill would get you to 60%. I would expect to feel the driving getting really hard before you reached the tap's limit. The only time I have broken one is in the CNC by rapiding into the work after fat-fingering a bad Z value.
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Kim on April 03, 2019, 05:16:07 AM
Thanks for the reply Rklopp,

Yes, this has been my experience (limited though it may be), that the tap gave me very clear signals when it was at the bottom.  It wasn't hard to feel the difference and to know when to stop.  Even in the 1018.  I'd done quite a few holes in 1018 in the past, and 7 others in these pieces just that same day.

But you're right - I was using a #43 drill and that results in a 70% thread, not the 60% that I claimed.  I don't have a 2.3mm drill.  Maybe I should get one though.  60% should be plenty for anything I'm doing here.

Well, I did order a nice Union Butterfield cutting tap to try out (it just arrived today).  It's surprising the difference you can feel in the sharpness of the tap compared to the import cutting taps I have.  I will likely give that a try on some of the steel too.

But it's nice to hear that you use the form taps in 1018 too.

I'm leaning toward the theory that I was getting careless in my excitement to finish the job and I likely moved my tap guide.  There was a bit of a wiggle between the two jaws of the vice. That's one of the reasons I was clamping it down to start with.  Anyway, what's done is done. And I re-leaned a lesson that I have learned before.  Don't hurry. You don't get there faster - take the time to make sure things are secure and won't move about.  It's worth it.  :facepalm2:

Thanks rklopp,
Kim
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Kim on April 03, 2019, 05:17:55 AM
I love form taps for making threads in softer metals like 1018 even when hand tapping. I avoid cut taps whenever possible.

Oh, and I meant to ask... Why do you avoid cutting taps?  Inquiring minds want to know! :)
Kim
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: rklopp on April 05, 2019, 04:27:43 PM
I love form taps for making threads in softer metals like 1018 even when hand tapping. I avoid cut taps whenever possible.

Oh, and I meant to ask... Why do you avoid cutting taps?  Inquiring minds want to know! :)
Kim
Form taps are much stouter and make no chips. The formed threads are typically stronger, too, due to the work hardening that occurs while forming the threads. Form taps do require more care with tap drill sizing that do cutting taps.
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Kim on April 07, 2019, 12:15:34 AM
Thanks  rklopp, your reasoning makes sense!

Kim
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Kim on April 07, 2019, 12:21:12 AM
I finished up the Side Sill repair today without a hitch, thanks in large part to the great advice from the forum members! :)

I started, as suggested, by using a hacksaw to cut a notch from the Side Sill. I started with the longer cut and it only took a couple of minutes to complete.
(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/013b-FrontAndRearEndSills-01-DSC_5553.jpg)

The broken tap is out!
(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/013b-FrontAndRearEndSills-02-DSC_5555.jpg)

And cleaned up the cut on the mill.
(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/013b-FrontAndRearEndSills-03-DSC_5558.jpg)

I used a 3/4" length of 12L14 square bar for the patch.  This will be just a tad oversized in each dimension.  Here I’m squaring up the two sides that will be silver soldered.
(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/013b-FrontAndRearEndSills-04-DSC_5560.jpg)

I decided to use a #1-72 screw to hold the two pieces together while soldering. This shows me hand tapping the hole on the mill. I used a new Union Butterfield Spiral Point Plug tap and it worked like a dream!
(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/013b-FrontAndRearEndSills-05-DSC_5561.jpg)

Before soldering, I made several punch marks on the edges to be soldered. This is a Kozo trick (that Chris uses all the time :)) to help maintain a small gap between the pieces so the solder will wick through.
(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/013b-FrontAndRearEndSills-06-DSC_5566.jpg)

Here it is, all loaded up with flux and a few pieces of hard solder.
(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/013b-FrontAndRearEndSills-07-DSC_5568.jpg)

The soldering went OK.  Not the best I’ve ever done, but not the worst. It took longer to heat up the part due to the large bar. But eventually, I got there.  I had to apply additional solder, but it worked out in the end.
(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/013b-FrontAndRearEndSills-08-DSC_5569.jpg)

I let it cool, then pickled it for a bit and washed it up.  Then put it on the mill and started to take down the top.
(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/013b-FrontAndRearEndSills-09-DSC_5573.jpg)

Then the sides and the end.
(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/013b-FrontAndRearEndSills-10-DSC_5574.jpg)

Here’s how it looks after some filing and a bit of cleaning.  Not too bad, though you can still see some black that I didn’t get off in my cleaning up process.
(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/013b-FrontAndRearEndSills-11-DSC_5576.jpg)

Finally, I drilled and tapped it, as I’d done all the others (though this time, I used a new spiral point 3-48 plug tap).  All went well with the taping :).

After assembly, here’s the repaired corner:
(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/013b-FrontAndRearEndSills-12-DSC_5578.jpg)

And the whole frame.
(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/013b-FrontAndRearEndSills-13-DSC_5582.jpg)

You'll never see the repair after it's painted (or powder coated, most likely - that's the direction I'm headed :) )

Thanks for stopping by and taking a look,
Thanks,
Kim
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: b.lindsey on April 07, 2019, 12:33:03 AM
Looks great Kim, and as you say, once painted no one will ever know. Nice save.

Bill
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: crueby on April 07, 2019, 01:40:11 AM
Excellent repair!!
 :whoohoo:
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Kim on April 07, 2019, 05:14:46 AM
Thanks Bill and Chris! :)
I'm quite pleased with it!
Kim
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: cnr6400 on April 07, 2019, 07:51:30 AM
Top notch fix Kim! well done.  :ThumbsUp: :ThumbsUp: :ThumbsUp:
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Kim on April 14, 2019, 03:25:27 PM
Thanks Cnr!
Kim

Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Kim on April 14, 2019, 03:27:46 PM
Chapter 4.3 – Front and Rear Bolster
These pieces connect across the frame and hold the front and rear trucks for the tender.

The Bolsters started as chunks of 5/8” square 12L14.  They were milled to final length (5 5/8”) on the mill, then I found the center and drilled a “D” sized hole for the pins that will hold the trucks on.  This is not a through hole and only goes 3/8” deep.
(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/014a-FrontAndRearBolster-01-DSC_5583.jpg)

Then drilled and tapped a 3-48 hole for the screw that will retain the truck pin in place.
(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/014a-FrontAndRearBolster-02-DSC_5586.jpg)

To position the bolt holes for holding the bolsters to the frames, I needed to find the right vertical position.  To do this, I made a little scratch mark through the holes on the frame onto the ends of the bolsters:
(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/014a-FrontAndRearBolster-03-DSC_5587.jpg)

Like so:
(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/014a-FrontAndRearBolster-04-DSC_5590.jpg)

The horizontal positions I was fine using the DRO.  They just needed to be 0.375” apart.  But the vertical position was critical to making the frame line up flat.

Mounted it in the mill and found the vertical position (Y, in this case).
(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/014a-FrontAndRearBolster-05-DSC_5592.jpg)

This is a shot of tapping the holes.
This shot also shows my setup for drilling the bolster ends. I actually used 2 Kant-Twist clamps on this setup (kept it more solid), but I started taking it down before I remembered to get a picture!
(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/014a-FrontAndRearBolster-06-DSC_5595.jpg)

Finally, I drilled two holes for #3-48 CSK screws in the Rear Bolster. These will be used later to attach the Tank Floor.
(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/014a-FrontAndRearBolster-07-DSC_5596.jpg)

And here’s the beauty shot of the two bolsters.  Not really much to look at, eh?
(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/014a-FrontAndRearBolster-08-DSC_5601.jpg)

And bolted into place with the rest of the Tender Frame Family!
(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/014a-FrontAndRearBolster-09-DSC_5603.jpg)

(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/014a-FrontAndRearBolster-10-DSC_5604.jpg)

Thanks for stopping by to take a look at my progress.
Kim
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Ye-Ole Steam Dude on April 14, 2019, 03:42:28 PM
Hello Kim,

Still following along and enjoying your work.

Have a great day,
Thomas
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Kim on April 21, 2019, 01:00:32 AM
Thanks Thomas!
Appreciate all the support I can get :)

Next up is the Drawbar that will connect the tender to the engine.

Chapter 4.4 – Drawbar Pocket and Drawbar

I start with the Drawbar Pocket, which will hold the Drawbar.  This was made from a short length of 5/16”x5/8” 1018 bar.  I cut it and trim it to width.  Then mill a dado in the middle where the drawbar will fasten. (Do you call grooves like this a dado in metal work?  Or is dado just a woodworking term?)
(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/015a-DrawBar_Pocket-01-DSC_5619.jpg)

I drill three holes – one in the center for the Drawbar Pin, and the two on the outside for the 3-48 screws that will hold it to the frame.  Here I’m adding the countersink to the holes for the fastening screws.
(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/015a-DrawBar_Pocket-02-DSC_5623.jpg)

Next, I remove the Front End Sill from the frame assembly and connect the drawbar pocket with two 3-48 screws.  Using the hole in the Drawbar Pocket as a guide I can now drill the frame so the holes line up.
(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/015a-DrawBar_Pocket-03-DSC_5626.jpg)

With the drawbar Pocket completed, I move to the Drawbar itself.  The drawbar is specified to be 3/32” thick.  I couldn’t find any 3/32” thick steel bar, so I used 0.090” steel plate (4130a).  I cut a piece (slightly oversized) by putting my HF horizontal bandsaw in vertical mode.
(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/015a-DrawBar_Pocket-04-DSC_5616.jpg)

Then milled it to the correct width of 5/16”.
(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/015a-DrawBar_Pocket-05-DSC_5628.jpg)

Next, I drilled 2-56 clearance holes (#43) at the correct locations for the ends of the drawbar.
(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/015a-DrawBar_Pocket-06-DSC_5630.jpg)

Then used some 5/16” filing buttons to round the ends of the Drawbar.
(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/015a-DrawBar_Pocket-07-DSC_5632.jpg)

After rounding, I drilled them out to the specified size of 0.161” or a size #20 bit.  The reason I did the holes in two steps is because I already had some 5/16” filing buttons with a #43 sized hole. That made the re-use easy, and drilling the holes out afterward didn’t take very long at all.
(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/015a-DrawBar_Pocket-08-DSC_5634.jpg)

And here are all the pieces I made (or modified) today:
(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/015a-DrawBar_Pocket-09-DSC_5636.jpg)

Here we are with the Drawbar pocket assembled onto the Front End Sill.
(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/015a-DrawBar_Pocket-10-DSC_5638.jpg)

And now, in situ with the whole frame.  You can see I’m using a #8 screw to hold the drawbar in place.  Eventually, I’ll get around to making the actual Drawbar Pin :).
(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/015a-DrawBar_Pocket-11-DSC_5644.jpg)

That ends my story for today. Thanks for stopping by and taking a look!
Kim
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: b.lindsey on April 21, 2019, 02:21:05 AM
Great update Kim. It's all looking great!

Bill
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Kim on April 21, 2019, 05:21:01 AM
Thanks Bill!

And just now I noticed in that last picture - I got the Front End Sill attached on the frame upside down!  I'll have to fix that eventually :)

Kim
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: scc on April 21, 2019, 10:19:51 AM
I'm quietly enjoying this one Kim,   nice work.        Terry
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Kim on April 21, 2019, 02:51:11 PM
Thanks Terry!
Appreciate you following along :)
Kim
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Kim on May 05, 2019, 03:14:56 PM
Today I started on the Front Steps for the tender.

Chapter 4.5 – Front Steps

There are two of the front step sub-assemblies, which are fabricated parts, made up of several small pieces of sheet steel, silver soldered together.  I’ve kinda been looking forward to this!  It seems like a fun thing.  I’ve done some fabrication before, but Kozo shows a lot of different techniques and this is one of the challenges I was looking forward to in taking on this project.

The pieces needed for this sub-assembly are 0.040” thick and 1/16” thick steel plate (I’m using 4130 steel plate, which seemed better than 1018 based on the descriptions I was able to find online).  They aren’t big pieces, but later in this build I’m going to need some nice large pieces of these sheets for the sides of the tender and the engine cab.  I believe I ordered enough material to cover all the needs for this project, but I’d been intending to do a bit of a floor plan for the stock to make sure I leave sizable enough pieces for what is needed later in the build. And I decided this was the time to do it. So, before I cut the bits-o-sheet I needed for the steps, I set down and planned out my material.

This, as is often the case, took a lot longer than I’d anticipated.  And while I was at it, I did a rough plan for the copper sheets too – basically, any sheet material where I was pushing using more than 60-70% of what I’d ordered, I made a floor plan.  And here’s the results of my work:
(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/016a-FrontSteps-2-DSC_5651.jpg)

Not a lot to show for my time, but now I have confidence, that baring scrap (yeah, right!), I’ll be able to get by without ordering more sheet.

Not wanting to end the day having made no actual progress on the build, I did take the additional 30 min to actually cut the pieces I need for the step assemblies. 

In the top left corner are 4 pieces (0.04” sheet) that will become the sides. Then going clockwise you have 2 pieces of 0.04 sheet for the top step, 2 pieces for the bottom step (1/16” thick), below 2 pieces (1/16”) for the middle step, and the bigger square pieces are for the back (also 1/16” thick).  The picture in the lower left shows what the step assemblies will look like when completed.
(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/016a-FrontSteps-3-DSC_5659.jpg)

Next time I’ll clean up the sizing of these rough cut pieces and assemble them!

Thanks for stopping by,
Kim
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: crueby on May 05, 2019, 04:50:53 PM
Great start on the steps, always worth it to plan out the sequence. Kozo is an amazing source if techniques.


 :popcorn:
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: b.lindsey on May 05, 2019, 06:14:29 PM
Interesting parts. Is there a jig or anything to hold all the parts together for the soldering?

Bill
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Kim on May 06, 2019, 05:11:24 AM
Hi Bill,
For this assembly, Kozo's technique is to cut little slits in the pieces, which are a little oversized.  The slits nest together to hold things in place during soldering.  Then you cut (or file) the excess part away.  Hopefully that confusing explanation will become clear when I post progress photos in the next update.
Kim
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Roger B on May 06, 2019, 10:52:48 AM
Still following along and enjoying  :praise2:  :praise2:  :wine1:
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Kim on May 07, 2019, 05:00:54 AM
Thanks Roger!
Kim
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Kim on May 12, 2019, 03:32:45 AM
Continuing on with the Front Steps for the tender.

Last week I cut all the pieces from sheet steel.  Today, I started by milling the parts down to the correct size.

This is a stack of the six parts that need to be 7/16" wide.
(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/016b-FrontSteps-01-DSC_5661.jpg)

I did the same to the 1/4" wide pieces (no pic – it pretty much looks the same!)

Then I used a slitting saw to cut a set of notches into each piece.  I did this in stacks, since I’m building two stairs, and each one has multiple pieces cut the same.  It saved a lot of time!  This is the 1/4" wide step pieces, all with two 0.040” slits cut 0.130” deep.
(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/016b-FrontSteps-02-DSC_5663.jpg)

Next was the bottom steps, which also got two 0.040” slits, but these were 0.220” deep.
(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/016b-FrontSteps-03-DSC_5666.jpg)

Finally, I notched the sides, which have 3 slits each – a 0.040” for the top step, and two 1/16” slits for the middle and bottom step.
(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/016b-FrontSteps-04-DSC_5669.jpg)

Here’s a family shot of the Front Steps, all the pieces cut to width and with the appropriate slits.  I didn’t bother to cut them to length since as you’ll see, the extra length will be cut off later.  (Though, as I was slitting them, I realized setup would have been easier had I bothered to square them up nicely!  Ah well, one of those things I’ll do better next time :))
(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/016b-FrontSteps-05-DSC_5673.jpg)

This shows you how the parts fit together. 
(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/016b-FrontSteps-06-DSC_5675.jpg)

After a thorough cleaning, I fluxed the pieces up and put a 1/4" piece of silver solder by each joint.
(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/016b-FrontSteps-07-DSC_5677.jpg)

And here’s the first sacrificial offering.  Didn’t turn out too badly, though it slid out of position while I was soldering.  For the 2nd one, I used one of those weights to help hold it in place.  Worked much better.
(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/016b-FrontSteps-08-DSC_5679.jpg)

After a pickle and a bit of a cleanup, I bent the sides and did a test fit with the bottom step.
(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/016b-FrontSteps-09-DSC_5681.jpg)

Then I solder those in place.
Here’s the state of play when I got tired and decided it was time to call it a day.  Here are all the steps soldered in place, and below it is the back of the steps.  Next time I’ll solder the steps to the back and cut off all the excess.
(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/016b-FrontSteps-10-DSC_5683.jpg)

Not a lot of progress this week, but ever bit moves me along!  And tomorrow, being Mother’s Day, will be spent with the family.  So maybe I’ll be able to finish the steps next weekend?  We’ll see.

Thanks for checking in!  I do appreciate the visit.
Kim
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: cnr6400 on May 12, 2019, 12:54:59 PM
A tricky fab job very well done!  :ThumbsUp: :ThumbsUp: :ThumbsUp: :popcorn: :popcorn: :popcorn:
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: b.lindsey on May 12, 2019, 01:32:52 PM
Nicely Done Kim. I can see now how the slits lock things together for the soldering.

Bill
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Kim on May 12, 2019, 04:24:44 PM
Thanks Cnr & Bill,
Appreciate you stopping by to take a look at my glacial progress :)
I think I need a half dozen of Chris's elves to help me out.  Guess my cookies just aren't enticing enough  ;)
Kim
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: cnr6400 on May 12, 2019, 05:22:03 PM
Kim, I don't think it's actually the cookies that get the elves motivated in Chris's shop  - I think they found a way in to his spirit locker and found the Navy rum. Just my hunch  based on the egg nog fumes at Christmas time.  :Lol:

So far the elves in my shop just swipe small parts and hide them, and stone off the sharp edges on my saws and cutting tools. Probably need a better grade of Navy rum!  :naughty:
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Admiral_dk on May 12, 2019, 09:10:08 PM
Well Kim, the fact that you are moving along at a human pace, does not make it less enjoyable for the rest of us to follow  :ThumbsUp:   :cheers:    :popcorn:

And on a side note about Chris and his elves - since he is more or less one himself - you might consider them his family  ;)
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: crueby on May 12, 2019, 10:07:49 PM
Well Kim, the fact that you are moving along at a human pace, does not make it less enjoyable for the rest of us to follow  :ThumbsUp:   :cheers:    :popcorn:

And on a side note about Chris and his elves - since he is more or less one himself - you might consider them his family  ;)
Absolutely!  We all worked for the big guy up north till the, um, incident. I am not really any bigger than them, its just camera angles!   :Jester:
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Kim on May 19, 2019, 05:34:05 PM
First order of business for today is to silver solder the back onto the Front Step assembly.

I started by filing the bottom side of the step frames flat, to make sure we had good solid contact with the back across the whole assembly. (Sorry, no pic.)

Then, after a good cleaning, I fluxed the parts up and placed the bits of silver solder around.  I put them on the inside so I could apply the heat on the outside.  This worked for all edges except the middle step. And for that, I put the solder in the little section above so I could apply the flame in the larger hole.  I made a gap underneath the part so I could apply some heat there if needed.
(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/016c-FrontSteps-01-DSC_5686.jpg)

This actually worked out a lot better than I’d feared.  This is the most soldering I’ve done in a single operation – five separate edges, and several of them fairly long.  I did some preheating along the bottom, but most heating was done up top, right at the corner line between the back and the edges of the stair frame.  I’m fairly pleased with the results!  (Though it looks a little chard here, it's not really as bad as the photo makes it seem).
(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/016c-FrontSteps-02-DSC_5691.jpg)

After soldering the other one, I left them both in the pickle solution for a while and worked on a tool I will need shortly.  I have to make an 82o countersink for the mounting screws.  These holes are at the bottom of a 1/2" deep hole and very close to the edge.  So I need a small countersink to fit down there.  Rather than go looking for something to purchase I decided I’d make one. Seems like a fairly simple tool to do.

I took some 1/4" W-1 that I had on hand, and cut an 82o cone on the end, then brought about 5/8” length of it down to 3/16” diameter.
 (http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/016c-FrontSteps-03-DSC_5694.jpg)

Then I moved to the mill and made a single cutting edge.
(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/016c-FrontSteps-04-DSC_5697.jpg)

Then I heat-treated and tempered it. Here’s the end result.  Now I’m all ready when I need to use it!
(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/016c-FrontSteps-05-DSC_5701.jpg)

Out of the pickle and washed off (no other clean up done yet) here are the two front steps:
(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/016c-FrontSteps-06-DSC_5699.jpg)
(Also, here you can see the two mounting holes on that drawing between the top and middle steps – the reason I made the countersink tool.)

Next, we need to cut off all the excess metal – the part that was used to hold things together during fabrication but really isn’t needed as part of the steps. Kozo says to cut it off with a fret saw, but I chose to mill most of it off.  Seemed easier to me.  I started with the flat sides:
(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/016c-FrontSteps-07-DSC_5704.jpg)

Then moved to the complex angled sides:
(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/016c-FrontSteps-08-DSC_5705.jpg)

Since it would make less filing later, I turned the parts at an angle and cleaned up the diagonal edge too.
(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/016c-FrontSteps-09-DSC_5709.jpg)

And finally, I cut down the width of the top two steps to 5/16”.
(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/016c-FrontSteps-10-DSC_5712.jpg)

The rest of the shaping was done by hand filing – cleaning up the final bit of the outside edges and then creating the rounded part between the middle and bottom steps. Here’s the first step completed, to shape:
(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/016c-FrontSteps-11-DSC_5716.jpg)

Here’s a before & after shot, well, a not-done vs. done shot :)
(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/016c-FrontSteps-12-DSC_5713.jpg)

Next time I’ll finish shaping the other front step assembly.

Thanks for following along on my progress.
Kim
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: b.lindsey on May 19, 2019, 05:40:06 PM
Nicely done Kim. Lots of work in those little detail parts!

Bill
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: crueby on May 19, 2019, 09:51:46 PM
Steps came out great! Got to remember the trick with the weighted arm for soldering....
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Dave Otto on May 19, 2019, 11:47:12 PM
Nice work on the steps Kim!

Dave
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: J.L. on May 20, 2019, 01:39:29 AM
Hi Kim,
I really do appreciate the amount of work you have put into making each part. Here I am, reaching into a plastic vaccuum formed tray and pulling out a part that has taken you hours to fabricate from scratch.

You should be very proud of the each and every part that goes into this engine.

Very skillful work.

Cheers...John
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Kim on May 20, 2019, 05:37:19 AM
Thank you Bill, Chis, Dave and John,
Appreciate the comments! 
And thanks to everyone who stops by to check out the build, comment or not!  :)

John,
I'm thoroughly enjoying your D51-200 2-8-2 build.  Yes, they are different types of building, and yours is quite interesting and I'm learning a lot by following along.

Thanks,
KIm
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Kim on May 27, 2019, 11:04:13 PM
This weekend, I finished up the front steps for the tender.

After shaving off the extra parts of the second set of steps, I used my new fancy 82o countersink.  It worked OK.  Not great, but for the few holes I need it for, I’ll deal.  I tried to sharpen it several times, then I tried to grind some relief on it. That helped more than anything.  But it still pushed metal out of the way more than cut it. You can see a healthy mound around the edge of the countersink there.
(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/016d-FrontSteps-01-DSC_5718.jpg)

It was very hard to clean up the edge around the countersink since it was so deep in the hole.  I ended up clamping it in the mill and using a little mill bit to take off that edge.  And here are the two completed steps.
(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/016d-FrontSteps-02-DSC_5737.jpg)

That completed the steps themselves.
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Kim on May 27, 2019, 11:07:50 PM
Chapter 4.6 – Step Bracket

Next, I made the brackets to connect the steps to the tender frame.

The bracket is a little piece of 1/2"x1/8” angle.

I made it from a piece of 1/2" square bar (12L14).  I put a short length in the mill and cut out the excess to make the angle.
(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/016d-FrontSteps-03-DSC_5722.jpg)

Then using a chamfer bit, I cut a 45o along one edge of the angle.
(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/016d-FrontSteps-04-DSC_5725.jpg)

And cut the angle in half to make two brackets.
(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/016d-FrontSteps-05-DSC_5729.jpg)

After cleaning up the ends, I drilled and tapped #2-56 holes for mounting the steps.
(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/016d-FrontSteps-06-DSC_5732.jpg)

Then I drilled and countersunk the holes for mounting to the tender frame.  Again, you can see the marginal ‘cutting’ job that my countersink bit did here. But in this case, it was easy to file the little mound of metal away.
(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/016d-FrontSteps-07-DSC_5734.jpg)

And here’s the completed Step Brackets.
(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/016d-FrontSteps-08-DSC_5739.jpg)

Then I screwed the steps onto the brackets:
(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/016d-FrontSteps-09-DSC_5741.jpg)

And mounted the brackets onto the frames.
Here’s the family shot, of the tender to date:
(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/016d-FrontSteps-10-DSC_5743.jpg)

Thanks,
Kim
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: cnr6400 on May 28, 2019, 12:52:06 AM
Looking great Kim! top notch work.  :ThumbsUp: :ThumbsUp: :ThumbsUp: :popcorn: :popcorn: :popcorn:
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: b.lindsey on May 28, 2019, 01:02:47 AM
Very nice Kim. Was the countersink bit an import?

Bill


Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Kim on May 28, 2019, 05:48:00 AM
Thanks CNR and Bill,

Was the countersink bit an import?

Bill, the countersink bit was one I made.  You can see more about it in pictures 3 to 5 in post #316 (http://www.modelenginemaker.com/index.php/topic,8552.msg200871.html#msg200871).  So I have no one to blame but myself and my own inexperience.  But I learned a lot from this exercise!  I think a straight D bit would have been better.  Or at least make more relief on the rest of the cutter.  Maybe if  I'd made 2 or 4 flutes it would have been better than the single?  Just thoughts for next time.  It worked well enough, and I'm past that part now :)

Thanks,
Kim
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: b.lindsey on May 28, 2019, 02:43:59 PM
Sorry Kim, somehow I had missed that. As you say though, past that point now and it all turned out well in the end.

Bill
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Kim on May 29, 2019, 06:17:14 AM
Nothing to worry about there, Bill!  I'm happy to have people comment for any reason :)  There are a lot of builds going on here at MEM (which is wonderful!) and its hard to keep track of all of them all the time.  No reason to be sorry!

Thanks for the comments and for following along!
Kim
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Kim on June 02, 2019, 02:40:22 AM
Chapter 4.7 – Rear Coupler Pocket

Today I started on the Rear Coupler Pocket.  This will go on the back of the tender to hold the coupler.

This part is another fabrication job, very similar to the front steps.

The Rear Coupler Pocket is supposed to be made from 3/32” brass.  But I substituted steel for most of the brass, and I couldn’t find 3/32” steel sheet.  So I ended up using 0.090” 4130A sheet steel.  It's pretty close to 0.09375 (3/32”).  Here I’m cutting out the pieces for the coupler pocket from the 0.090” sheet using my HF saw in vertical mode.
(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/017a-RearCouplerPocket-1-DSC_5746.jpg)

Then I cut all the pieces to the correct width. I did four at a time here since they are all the same width.  These are being cut to 0.50” wide.
(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/017a-RearCouplerPocket-2-DSC_5747.jpg)

This is the back plate for the rear coupler being milled to size.
(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/017a-RearCouplerPocket-3-DSC_5750.jpg)

And a family shot of all six pieces that will make up the coupler pocket.  I’ve laid-out the locations for the slots and holes and marked where they are in black pen.
(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/017a-RearCouplerPocket-4-DSC_5753.jpg)

Back to the mill to cut the 3/32” slots.  Now, this slitting saw is brand new.  But its way out of round.  Like way out.  It only cuts with one tooth I think.  And It goes ‘Thunk, Thunk, Thunk’ as it turns since only one tooth hits metal.  Many of my slitting saws are a little out of round, but this one is WAY off.  I guess it worked in the end though.
(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/017a-RearCouplerPocket-5-DSC_5755.jpg)

Here are all the parts after cutting the slits.
(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/017a-RearCouplerPocket-6-DSC_5758.jpg)

And with the four pieces that make the pocket slid together.
(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/017a-RearCouplerPocket-7-DSC_5761.jpg)

Next time I’ll silver solder the pocket together, then solder it to the back.

Thanks for taking a look,
Kim
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Larry on June 02, 2019, 04:21:28 AM
Every slitting saw I use goes Thunk, Thunk, Thunk. I tend to think it is the mandrel but maybe a combination of the two. I have about 3 mandrels and they all do the same. Wish I could find a heavy duty accurate one.

You have taken on quite a project. Your posts are great.
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Kim on June 02, 2019, 05:40:55 AM
Thanks Larry!
Nice to know I'm not the only one who has lopsided slitting saws!  The 1/16" one I used recently was very nice - almost seemed to cut on multiple teeth, so I don't think it's the mandrel (though I guess it still could be).

Most of my slitting blades have some eccentricity, but this 3/32" one is the most dramatic.  It could be because i purchase cheap ones - they're all <$10 a piece, so I'm sure they're all imports, and it's pot luck on how concentric it is.  Some are better, some are worse.  And some are truly exceptionally awful! :)

Thanks for following along Larry!
Kim
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: b.lindsey on June 02, 2019, 01:21:12 PM
More nice fabrication work Kim. I would think something is amiss if my slitting saws didn't go thunk, thunk, thunk too  ;)

Bill
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Kim on June 02, 2019, 05:55:37 PM
Thanks Bill!
Kim
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Kim on June 09, 2019, 05:38:54 PM
Well, I said next shop time I’d silver solder the coupler pocket. But I forgot that I need to do a little more work to get ready for that!  I still need to drill & tap some holes for 0-80 screws to hold the pieces together during the soldering operation.

So, I drill some holes:
(http://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/017b-RearCouplerPocket-1-DSC_5762.jpg)

And tap some holes:
(http://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/017b-RearCouplerPocket-2-DSC_5768.jpg)

Then drill a few more holes – clearance holes this time.  I’ll be screwing the other pieces to this backing plate.
(http://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/017b-RearCouplerPocket-3-DSC_5770.jpg)

And finally, Kozo shows to take a little off the holding flanges here.  I think this is so that the outside edge doesn’t get soldered to the base – it will make clean-up easier later.
(http://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/017b-RearCouplerPocket-4-DSC_5773.jpg)

And here it is will all the pieces screwed together.  Front:
(http://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/017b-RearCouplerPocket-5-DSC_5774.jpg)

And back:
(http://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/017b-RearCouplerPocket-6-DSC_5778.jpg)
Now, the astute among you might notice that the solder holding screws for the back flange are poking all the way through.  I accidentally drilled too deep and broke through the other side of that flange. So I just used longer 0-80 screws to fill the hole.  The part will be painted, so nobody should be the wiser :)


NOW, we’re ready for soldering!
Kim

P.S. I did this last weekend and didn’t get around to posting the progress till now.
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Kim on June 09, 2019, 05:47:38 PM
This week’s shop time is silver soldering for sure!

Here’s the pocket assembled, fluxed and with bits of silver solder by each joint, just waiting for heat to be applied. This will solder the upright pieces to the base.
(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/017c-RearCouplerPocket-01-DSC_5782.jpg)

After a pickle and cleanup, I set up to solder the edges of the box together. 
(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/017c-RearCouplerPocket-02-DSC_5785.jpg)

And finally, I soldered the back flange onto the unit.  This is AFTER soldering this time.  Turned out pretty well.
(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/017c-RearCouplerPocket-03-DSC_5787.jpg)

Another pickle and clean up, and we’re ready to take the coupler pocket down to size. I have to mill off the excess pieces that were there just to hold things together during soldering. I started by evening off the bottom. It’s just flat, so quite straight forward.
(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/017c-RearCouplerPocket-04-DSC_5789.jpg)

Next, I did the sides.  Here I had to be a little more careful because the back needs to remain wider than the pocket.  But I  milled off the parts that were just there to hold the pocket sides in place.  (And the head of the screw).
(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/017c-RearCouplerPocket-05-DSC_5792.jpg)

After completing both sides, I did the top.  Then I put the part in at an angle (adjusted by eye) and took off the corners at an angle.  The rest will be cleaned up with files.
(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/017c-RearCouplerPocket-06-DSC_5795.jpg)

After filing everything flush, I needed to round off the front of the pocket.  The drawing showed a 3/4" radius.  However, the center of the arc was about 3/16” out in mid-air.  Rather than free-handing the arc, I double-sticky-taped a little piece of wood to the rear flange and use that to support the dividers while I drew the arc.
(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/017c-RearCouplerPocket-07-DSC_5797.jpg)

Then I filed the arc following the line.
(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/017c-RearCouplerPocket-08-DSC_5800.jpg)

Next, I drilled four mounting holes; two in the backplate (as shown below) and two in the back flange (not shown).
(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/017c-RearCouplerPocket-09-DSC_5802.jpg)

And finally, I drilled and reamed a 1/8” hole for the coupler pin.  I drilled this from the bottom since I could get a better hold on the part that way.  I would have been good to do this step BEFORE I rounded the front of the pocket, but I didn’t think about it.  I almost forgot the coupler pin hole completely!
(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/017c-RearCouplerPocket-10-DSC_5812.jpg)
You may also note the two little dimples in my vice jaws in the above picture :(.  I had a piece of packing in place when I drilled the mounting holes, but apparently, it wasn’t enough – or I was too exuberant in drilling my holes because I clearly drilled into my vice jaws on both sides.  How sad is that? :(  Ah well, it's bound to happen sooner or later.  And my vice is now 1.5 years old. Guess its time for some battle scars.

And here’s the completed coupler pocket!
(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/017c-RearCouplerPocket-11-DSC_5813.jpg)

The only thing remaining is to mount it to the frame.

Back when I was doing the rear end sill, I marked these holes, but I did not drill them.  I wanted to wait to make the holes till I had the part in hand so I could make sure they matched up.  Turns out, they matched up perfectly!
(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/017c-RearCouplerPocket-12-DSC_5803.jpg)

So, I drilled and tapped the holes (3-48).
(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/017c-RearCouplerPocket-13-DSC_5807.jpg)

Then, I mounted the coupler pocket.  Here it is, in its final resting place on the rear of the tender frame.
(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/017c-RearCouplerPocket-14-DSC_5815.jpg)

And another shot, just because it's fun.
(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/017c-RearCouplerPocket-15-DSC_5824.jpg)


Now, the Rear Coupler Pocket is officially complete.

Only a few more pieces of the frame (Footboard, and Coupler Pins) then we’ll be on to tank itself!

Thanks for looking in,
Kim
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Ye-Ole Steam Dude on June 09, 2019, 06:01:12 PM
Hello Kim,

Love to see this detail work on these simple yet complex to build pieces.  :ThumbsUp:

Your project is coming along beautifully.

Have a great day,
Thomas
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: b.lindsey on June 09, 2019, 08:09:02 PM
That is a lot of steps for that part but it sure turned out nice. Good stuff and great pictures Kim.

Bill
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Kim on June 09, 2019, 08:16:35 PM
Thanks, Thomas and Bill!
Appreciate you both following along :)
Kim
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: cnr6400 on June 09, 2019, 11:52:00 PM
Great work Kim!  :ThumbsUp: :ThumbsUp: :ThumbsUp: :popcorn: :popcorn: :popcorn:
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Dave Otto on June 10, 2019, 12:40:14 AM
Nice fab and machine work Kim!

Dave
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Kim on June 16, 2019, 03:48:16 PM
Thanks Cnr and Dave!
Sorry for the delayed reply.  Though I'd done this days ago. Guess I just thought about it and never quite did it!
I'm good at that :)
Kim
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Kim on June 16, 2019, 03:54:51 PM
Chapter 4.8 – Foot Board

Today’s mini-project is the tender Foot Board. Not being well versed in train anatomy, I’d have called it the rear bumper for the tender :)  But I’m learning.  I never know if the names Kozo gives things are just what he calls it, what its called in Japan, or the standard US name for an item.  But I generally just go with it since I don’t know any better.  So, Foot Board it is!

I started by cutting material for the brackets.  These are 3/32” thick sheet (well, 0.090” thick sheet, which is pretty close).  Here I’m cutting a strip off the sheet stock (4130a) for this purpose.
(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/018a-FootBoard-01-DSC_5830.jpg)

I cut them to approximate length, then milled them to the appropriate width (9/32”).  No pictures of this fascinating operation, though I’m sure you can imagine it if you try.

With that complete, I made a 90o bend about 1/3 of the way down the part.  This leaves both ends long, but I decided its MUCH easier to clean up the ends after they are in place than to get a bend in exactly the right spot – especially on such thick material.
(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/018a-FootBoard-02-DSC_5833.jpg)

Next was to make the foot board itself.  This is a 3/8”x1/2” – 1/8” thick angle which I made from a length of 1018 steel.  This is a shot of me milling the angle to shape:
(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/018a-FootBoard-03-DSC_5836.jpg)

After shaping it, I flipped it over to drill and tap some 3-48 holes to help hold the brackets on while silver soldering.  The piece sitting behind it on the vise is the rear sill of the tender frame.  The double row of holes for along this is for the other end of the brackets.  So, the spacing of these holes should line up exactly with the ones I’m tapping in the foot board.
(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/018a-FootBoard-04-DSC_5838.jpg)

Then I drilled the through holes in the bracket.  These were all located from the 90o bend.
(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/018a-FootBoard-05-DSC_5839.jpg)

Finally, before attaching all the pieces together, I filed off the corners of the footboard as shown in the drawings.
(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/018a-FootBoard-06-DSC_5841.jpg)

And here’s the Foot Board family, posing for a beauty shot before jumping in the fire.
(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/018a-FootBoard-07-DSC_5844.jpg)

All fluxed up and ready to go!  Note I’m using the rear sill as part of the soldering jig here to help hold all the brackets in place.
(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/018a-FootBoard-08-DSC_5846.jpg)

And done.  One thing about silver soldering steel – it can take a LOT more heat than the brass before it starts to melt into a puddle of goo.  And with such big hunk of steel to heat up, I melted the heads of the brass holding screws on 3 out of 4 of the joints.  I need to be more careful with my heat here.  I think soldering steel is letting me get lazy with my heat application.
(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/018a-FootBoard-09-DSC_5849.jpg)

After a pickle bath, we’re back to the mill to shorten the ends of the brackets to the correct length.
(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/018a-FootBoard-10-DSC_5853.jpg)

A little filing work to finish the job, and take the heads off the brass screws (or what was left of them after my burnt offering to the silver solder gods).
(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/018a-FootBoard-11-DSC_5856.jpg)

And there we have the foot board assembly!
(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/018a-FootBoard-12-DSC_5858.jpg)

Finally, situated in place on the tender frame.
(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/018a-FootBoard-13-DSC_5862.jpg)

Well, that was a LONG shop session but I completed the foot board!
Thanks for stopping by and taking a look,
Kim
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: b.lindsey on June 16, 2019, 08:20:37 PM
More nice work Kim. Am enjoying the step by step build log a lot.

Bill
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Firebird on June 16, 2019, 08:32:29 PM
Hi Kim

 :ThumbsUp: :popcorn:

Cheers

Rich
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Kim on June 17, 2019, 06:56:28 AM
Thanks Bill and Rich!
Kim
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: 90LX_Notch on June 17, 2019, 11:10:23 PM
I'm still following along Kim.  Very nice work.  I admire the soldering.  I've never done it.

-Bob
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Kim on June 18, 2019, 05:23:36 AM
Thanks Bob!
Please don't admire the soldering job too closely or you'll see how truly rudimentary my soldering is!  But I am getting better! :)

I actually enjoy the silver soldering process.  It's kind-of magical to see it in action. 
Kim
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Kim on June 30, 2019, 03:44:48 PM
Chapter 4.9 – Center Pins and Drawbar Pin

The final parts of the Tender Frame are the Center Pins and the Drawbar Pin.  These are simple turnings and shouldn’t have taken too long.  But being as talented as I am, I was able to make them take my full shop time today!  Pretty impressive, eh?

OK, I did some other puttering around – sharpened some of the yard tools that my wife had asked me to and fixed the electric hedger.  But after that, I started on my project!

I got all set up on the lathe and then remembered I’d left the change gears in a non-standard state.  That was back when I did the springs for the truck - I needed a really course horizontal travel for the spring which required a gear change.  So, I thought, “I’ve got plenty of time, why don’t I change them back now?”

So, I did.  It just took longer than it should have.  But in the end, I got it done.  With the added bonus of breaking the gear change banjo (or Change Gear Pivot Bracket, as they call it in the Grizzly manual).  This picture shows the change gears on my lathe. The three gears in a row there are all connected to the banjo – the bottom one is where it pivots and the next two up are mounted to the banjo.
(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/019a-CenterAndDrawbarPins-01-DSC_5869.jpg)

It’s held in place by the nut you can see just below the middle gear (to the left of the lowest gear). And by a clamping screw that clamps it to the pivot point at the bottom.

And that’s where it broke.  I was tightening the clamp at the pivot and suddenly, the screw turned way too easily. Apparently, I’d over tightened the screw and broke the casting?  I didn’t know I could do that.  I didn’t think I was exerting that much force, but clearly, I did.
(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/019a-CenterAndDrawbarPins-02-DSC_5865.jpg)

After fretting about it for a bit, I decided to go ahead and use the lathe for today.  The clamp around the pivot isn’t what provides the rigidity anyway – it’s the other nut that really clamps it into place.  I’m thinking as long as there’s enough material to hold the banjo in place at the pivot point, I shouldn’t miss that clamping force from the pivot too much?  Thoughts from anyone on this?  Am I foolish for continuing to use the late with the banjo broken as such?

Regardless, I’m going to contact Grizzly and find out what it will cost to get a replacement banjo.

Anyway, after that exciting little mishap, the rest of the work went without hitch.

I started with the Drawbar Pin.   This was made from 1/4" 12L14 rod.  Using a 1/4" collet to hold it, I cut about 3/4” down to diameter (5/32”) then chamfered the end at 30o using the cross slide.
(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/019a-CenterAndDrawbarPins-03-DSC_5874.jpg)

I then slid the bar out another inch or so and brought the required length down to diameter.
(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/019a-CenterAndDrawbarPins-04-DSC_5877.jpg)

And parted it off the rod.  I also took this opportunity to chamfer the top of the pin with a file.
(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/019a-CenterAndDrawbarPins-05-DSC_5879.jpg)

Now for the Center Pins.  These were also made from the same 1/4" 12L14 rod.  Kozo specifies these to be 0.245” to provide an easy sliding fit in a 1/4" reamed hole.  So I skimmed off a few thou from the 1/4" bar and chamfered the end.  Then I cut a 1/32” groove for an e-clip.
(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/019a-CenterAndDrawbarPins-06-DSC_5881.jpg)

Next, I used a parting tool to cut a 1/8” groove in the pin for a set screw.
(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/019a-CenterAndDrawbarPins-07-DSC_5882.jpg)

And parted it off.
And did it again.

Here’s the three parts I made today:
(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/019a-CenterAndDrawbarPins-08-DSC_5884.jpg)

Showing the Darwbar Pin in place:
(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/019a-CenterAndDrawbarPins-09-DSC_5885.jpg)

And the center pins.  You can almost see one of the e-clips on the bottom of the rear center pin if you use your imagination! :)
(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/019a-CenterAndDrawbarPins-10-DSC_5888.JPG)

Thanks for stopping by and taking a look.
Kim
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: cnr6400 on June 30, 2019, 05:17:55 PM
Drawbar and pin looks great!  :ThumbsUp: :ThumbsUp: :ThumbsUp: :popcorn: :popcorn: :popcorn:

Don't worry about the broken banjo casting. Seen lots of broken ones on machines from China. The castings are pretty iffy it seems. Just use the old one as a patterm and cut / mill out a new one from mild steel. Breakage worries overwith. Outline could also be laser or waterjet cut if you have CAD capability and friend with those machines. Good luck with the repair!

(By the way welding and bronze welded repairs have not been successful on several broken ones I have run across, welds held but the iron just broke again 1/2" away. Others welded fine. These experiences are why I suggest new fab in  mild steel)
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Ye-Ole Steam Dude on June 30, 2019, 05:53:28 PM
Hello Kim,

Still following along and enjoying your beautiful work.  :popcorn:

Have a great day,
Thomas
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: b.lindsey on June 30, 2019, 07:41:30 PM
Good looking pins. Sorry about the banjo, but agree a fabricated one and your worries will be over.

Bill
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Kim on July 01, 2019, 05:19:31 AM
Thanks Cnr, Thomas, and Bill!
Thanks for the suggestion on fabricating my own new banjo.  That makes a lot of sense to just make one.  I was hoping it would be easier to just get a replacement part from Grizzly.  But if its not that sturdy of a casting, maybe its not worth the money to replace.

I'll have to give fabricating more thought.  I'm still thinking the lathe is pretty usable even with that bit broken off the banjo, but it will inevitably break more, so I'll so something about it eventually...

Kim

Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: 90LX_Notch on July 01, 2019, 10:05:38 PM
I'd say you nailed those pins.  Nice work..

-Bob
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Kim on July 02, 2019, 05:38:28 AM
Thanks Bob!
Kim
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Kim on July 02, 2019, 05:42:39 AM
Well, all my deep thinking about fabricating a new banjo for my lathe just flew out the window today.

I called Grizzly and the part cost $34.38.  When I looked at the cost of a chunk of steel big enough for the bracket, it cost as much as the casting.  Plus I'd have to put a bunch of work into it. Sure, it'd be a stronger part, but this one lasted me 6 years.  If I spend $35 on a new casting and it last me as long, I won't be too unhappy.  And if it breaks again, I can always fab one then.

So, I've got a replacement banjo on its way to me.  3-5 business days, so they said.

Kim
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: b.lindsey on July 02, 2019, 02:19:24 PM
That seems a reasonable price Kim, Like you say, there is always the fabrication option down the road if needed.

Bill
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: crueby on July 02, 2019, 03:14:22 PM
That seems a reasonable price Kim, Like you say, there is always the fabrication option down the road if needed.

Bill
Before installing the new one, take measurements for any possible future making of a replacement replacement...
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: cnr6400 on July 02, 2019, 04:26:21 PM
Kim, with a new casting, there's also a chance the factory have improved the casting technology or the metallurgy of the part. Could be far better than the older banjo. The factories in China do sometimes make improvements if user's complaints make it back to them.

I did not realize replacement banjos were affordable now. I priced one a number of years ago to replace a broken one for a friend's China lathe and was quoted multiple hundreds of dollars and a 12 week wait by our local (not very honest or cost effective) dealer.

The ones I made from mild steel were cut from scrap on hand, so cost was just for the labour.
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Kim on July 03, 2019, 05:21:35 AM
Thanks for the support, guys!
Cnr, I hadn't even thought about them making it better :) That would certainly be a bonus!

Plus, I've learned a lesson - you don't have to reef down on the clamping screw - most of the holding power comes from the nut further up the banjo anyway!  I can just snug that screw up and call it good.  This should make the casting last twice as long - and any improvement will be a extra bonus :)

Taking measurements - good idea Chris.  Will I do it?  Maybe, but the problem would be that I'd never be able to find it n+1 years from now when I actually need it :)  So I may wait till necessity demands that work :)  (its not that  I'm lazy, exactly, I just don't mind avoiding work that doesn't need to be done, unless it seems like fun!  :LittleDevil:)

Kim
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Kim on July 06, 2019, 05:26:02 AM
Got some time in the shop today after the holiday festivities.  I started by doing a pretty good cleaning – putting all the tools back in their place, sweeping up the swarf and vacuuming things up pretty good.  It looks nice now!

I also spent some time unpacking the new addition that the Birthday Fairy recently brought me:  a new Eastwood powder coating gun and oven  :cartwheel:

And since I had some time, I couldn’t just let it sit there thinking it was unloved, I had to give it a try.

So, I dug through my scrap bucket and came up with an interesting piece from some past project and decided to try that out.  It was an aluminum hunk from the 5-cylinder rotary engine I did a few years back that was rejected for some reason I don’t remember.

I cleaned the part really good then hung it up to powder coat.

I made a powder coating booth using the box the oven came. I only got black and red powder, so I went with red. You can sort-of see the grounding clip at the top of the picture. This is after coating BTW:
(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/020a-PowderCoating-1-DSC_5899.jpg)

Then I moved it to my preheated powder coating oven (cleverly labeled as you can see) and waited for the powder to go liquid.
 (http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/020a-PowderCoating-2-DSC_5904.jpg)

Here’s a close-up of the part baking.
(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/020a-PowderCoating-3-DSC_5901.jpg)

And here’s the part after it cooled down.
(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/020a-PowderCoating-4-DSC_5906.jpg)

Interestingly, I was supposed to wait for the oven to heat up to 450F before I put the part in, and I kept checking it with an infrared thermometer.   It wouldn't go up past 250.  I was getting frustrated.   I finally tried opening the door and it was WAY hotter!  I was checking the temperature of the OUTSIDE of the door (go figure - it doesn't read temp through the glass door...  :facepalm: of course! :insane:).  Anyway, I put the part in, it seemed to go off in about 10 or so, then I set it to 400F and let it soak for about 20 min.  I took the part out and let it cool for a bit and that was all there was too it. Not that complex of a process really!

I’m just as tickled as you can imagine! :)

Tomorrow I’m going to strip the paint off the trucks and start coating the frame and trucks!

Kim
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: cnr6400 on July 06, 2019, 11:59:07 AM
The first part looks great Kim! Nice result!  :ThumbsUp: :ThumbsUp: :ThumbsUp: :popcorn: :popcorn: :popcorn:

Something tells me that the special powder coating oven could also be used to heat and discolour bread or different sorts of pies at breaks or lunch time.... who knew?  :naughty:
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Ye-Ole Steam Dude on July 06, 2019, 12:44:06 PM
Hello Kim,

That part looks really good, appears to have a nice heavy coating. :ThumbsUp:

This is good to know, now if Bill is too busy to do any powder coating for me,  :ROFL: :lolb:

Have a great day,
Thomas
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: b.lindsey on July 06, 2019, 02:16:36 PM
Great result Kim and it really isn't much if any harder that doing a good job with regular paint. Maybe not as many color choices but the Eastwood powders seem to cover most of the bases pretty well.  Happy belated birthday too!! Now looking forward to seeing the trucks once they are done !!

Bill
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Dave Otto on July 06, 2019, 04:06:21 PM
That look very nice Kim!

The usual method for prep is to sandblast (at least that is what the guy that I use does), do you have any idea how well the powder bonds to the base metal if it is only cleaned and not blasted? 

Dave
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Kim on July 06, 2019, 05:22:22 PM
Thanks all for the kind replies!

Dave,
I don't know how well the powder bonds this way. I'll play around with it a little more today and see if can give some metric on how well it bonds.  Just holding it in my hands now and scratching on it with my fingernails - it has a LOT better bond than any spray paint, that's for sure.  It feels quite secure.  Don't know how it will hold up when I start rubbing metal against it, but it can't be worse than that the spray paint I've been using.

The instructions they provide are to clean well make sure there's no moisture left on it and NO FINGERPRINTS - no touching the metal after the final washing. They do recommend a solvent based cleaner that evaporates quickly to help ensure the "no moisture" part.  I picked up their painting prep cleaner and used that. They claim its better than lacquer thinner, but I don't generally use lacquer thinner anyway.  I generally use acetone. Don't know if that's any better or worse, it's just what I use.

I'll have to give you a better reading in a few days on this :)

Any comments Bill? You have more experience with it than I do

Kim
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: b.lindsey on July 06, 2019, 07:06:26 PM
Not much more experience than you at this point, but I also followed the Eastwood instructions as you did and used their cleaner/prep as well. Like you say, the bond has so far been great and MUCH better than conventional paint. I suspect bead blasting would help even more but not required as long as you are down to bare metal for the powder coat.

Bill
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: crueby on July 06, 2019, 08:41:19 PM
Is it possible to mask off a design on the powder coat, and apply another color on top? Though that would require tape that would take the baking...  :headscratch:
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: b.lindsey on July 06, 2019, 09:42:39 PM
Chris, you can do overcoats, and in fact some of the translucent powders require a bast coat. Hi temp tape is available in both fiberglass and some sort of plastic.

Bill
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: crueby on July 06, 2019, 11:20:33 PM
Neat stuff.... Need to put one of those setups on my Christmas list...   :atcomputer:
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Kim on July 07, 2019, 06:05:46 AM
Yes!  You certainly need one of these, Chris! :)  Quite fun!

I'll post today's update soon (tomorrow sometime probably).  Unfortunately, today's session was slightly less successful - I don't think I got the powder quite thick enough this time, so it's going back to the paint shop for another coat.

But still, the process worked well, it was just inexperience on the part of the guy running the paint booth.  Hopefully he'll get better or I'll have to fire him :)

As for two colors of powder coat paint - I'm sure you can do this but after playing with the tape some today, it does mask the powder and withstand the heat - I can verify that.  But I don't think you get the same crisp line you would expect with sprayed paint.  It just seems to creep around corners and under the edge of the tape a little bit more than has been my experience with spray paint.

Kim
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: b.lindsey on July 07, 2019, 12:34:05 PM
Kim, were you using the fiberglass tape or the blue plastic hi-temp one? I ordered some of the blue but so far have only tried the fiberglass. I am hoping the blue may provide crisper lines at least on smooth surfaces. But I agree, the electrostatic charge will definitely pull powder into even small spaces if not masked perfectly.

Bill
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: kvom on July 07, 2019, 02:14:19 PM
Masking is probably the hardest part of powder coating.   ::)

I bought a set of varying widths of tape for this purpose.  You can get a fine  edge if done properly.  I also got the set of plugs for varying size holes, although for threaded holes a screw works best. 

The Eastwood gun has two settings, with the #2 setting recommended for spraying tight corners and small spaces.
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: crueby on July 07, 2019, 02:36:03 PM
Which version gun kit did you guys get from Eastwood?
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: b.lindsey on July 07, 2019, 02:46:15 PM
Chris, I got the dual voltage one just to have the added capability.

Bill
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Kim on July 07, 2019, 03:17:23 PM
Like Bill, I got the dual voltage gun.  Seemed like 2 for 1 a little more money, right?  If I need it, I'll be glad I sprung the extra $40 for the dual voltage gun (that's my theory anyway :)).

Hi Kvom, I got one of the plug sets too, though I haven't had an opportunity to use them yet.

Bill, on the high-temp masking tape - I got several widths of the blue-green plasticy tape which is what I used. But you're right - I'm not using it on a flat surface.  I'm bending around corners and doing lots of weird stuff on these parts, so it isn't a fair trial really.  It probably will make much more crisp lines on a flatter surface.

I also got one roll of the white fiberglass tape, because it came with the 'accessories' pack that I got.  Haven't used that yet.

Kim
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Kim on July 07, 2019, 03:20:15 PM
First order of business today was to dis-assemble everything into its constituent parts for a paint strip, in preparation for powder coating.  I took this opportunity to get a quick family shot of all parts made to date.  Doesn’t look like so much when it's just sitting there. But that was a lot of work!
(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/020b-PowderCoating-1-DSC_5909.jpg)

I decided the best way to do the wheels was to disassemble them too.  I had to heat them up to release the Loctite.
(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/020b-PowderCoating-2-DSC_5910.jpg)

This also had the advantage of helping to strip the paint some.
(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/020b-PowderCoating-3-DSC_5913.jpg)

Still took quite a bit of work with a wire brush and a lot of buffing with a 3M mesh wheel.  But I got them back to pretty nice condition for the powder coating.

I covered the edges with the high-temp masking tape, made little wire hangers for them, and powdered them.  I hung 3 at a time in my high-tech paint booth.  I did have to remember to move the ground clip when I moved from one to the next.  After coating them, I moved them to the rack that I’d set up right next to the powder coating station.
(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/020b-PowderCoating-4-DSC_5915.jpg)

When all eight wheels were powdered, I moved them to the oven to bake.  It’s interesting, watching the powder melt and start to flow.
(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/020b-PowderCoating-5-DSC_5918.jpg)

After the baking period, I moved the whole rack out to cool.
(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/020b-PowderCoating-6-DSC_5921.jpg)

Unfortunately, after cooling, it became clear to me that I didn’t really get a thick enough cover with the powder.  A few are OK, but several just aren’t even and don’t have the color I want.  It’s easier to see in person, but a few you can see in the picture too, like the one in the top left corner, and the second one from the right on the top, to name a few.
(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/020b-PowderCoating-7-DSC_5925.jpg)

Anyway, now I’ll get to try the re-coating.  It’s not any different other than it sounds like it can be a little harder to get the powder to coat well.  Guess I’ll find out! :)

Kim

Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: b.lindsey on July 07, 2019, 05:16:23 PM
Interested to see how that works out Kim. I haven't tried a second coat yet either. Might be good to use the 25kV setting for the redo though. Looking forward to seeing the results.

Bill
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: kvom on July 07, 2019, 10:54:46 PM
A bit of a rub with scotchbrite helps with the second coat adhesion, although I haven't needed it on most parts.
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: crueby on July 07, 2019, 11:47:17 PM
When you talk about the powder flowing, can a too-thick coating sag? Or does it just melt the particles into one film layer? Wondering if going on too thick could run like paint does? Fascinating stuff!
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Kim on July 08, 2019, 05:46:17 AM
Well, with my minimal experience, it seems that the powder melts and flows together - a little.  But if it seems to need to be pretty evenly distributed or you can get lumps - they refer to it as "Orange Peel" though this seems to have several potential causes (powder too thick, bake too long, etc.)  I've got a few not-so-ideal pictures I can share soon.  Not sure if it will run like conventional paint though.  It might if you could stack enough powder in one place.

My re-coating went pretty well.  Most of the 8 wheels came out pretty good. but one I fussed around with a lot and it just kept getting worse.  I touched it with my finger once while trying to position it - that was dumb.  Big fat oily finger print right in the middle...  I cooked the other 7, and they are mostly OK - still might be a little thin in a spot or two.  But that one - I cleaned all the lose powder off and tried it again - a couple different times.

I think the concave shape of the wheels causes some problems.

Higher voltage didn't help.  Lower voltage is what most things I read recommended.  So I used the 15K setting.  The thing that actually helped the most was to turn the air pressure down.  I though I had it down below 10psi, but apparently not - it was more like 20psi, which was almost blowing the powder off the wheel.  Anyway, bring the pressure down helped the most (and getting rid of my finger print!  :wallbang:).

Pics to follow soon.
Kim

Eventually, the things that see
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: mike mott on July 12, 2019, 04:10:11 PM
Good Morning Kim
I just finished reading through this entire thread, and I am really enjoying your detailed descriptions of each step. I have Kozo's book as well, and your posts have added a great deal to the work. It looks like you have some nice tooling as well. I will follow along now that I have the background of your build. Oh yes and it all looks great so far.

Mike 
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Kim on July 12, 2019, 09:34:54 PM
Thanks Mike!
Appreciate the kind words :)

Hopefully, me documenting my struggles can be helpful others.  It is certainly helpful for me!  I get so much amazing feedback from the members of this forum.  everything I know about model engineering, I've learned from people right here, sharing their wisdom and experience with me.

Kim
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Kim on July 14, 2019, 11:12:33 PM
Well, I wasn’t pleased at all with my second coat either.  It was marginally better, but most wheels still had very poor coverage, as can be seen in this picture.  I just wasn’t happy with the look at all.
(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/020c-PowderCoating-1-DSC_5931.jpg)

So, I tried going back to basics.  Things just didn’t seem to be getting the powder and I wondered why. So I used an ohm-meter and sure enough – there was NO electrical connection between my wire and the part.  And looking at the hole in the wheel I could see that it was completely coated with baked-on paint. As was the wire I used to hold it. This picture doesn't show it very well, but it is quite clear in real life.   Things are dark in that hole, which messes up the picture. But trust me, it was completely coated – on all wheels.
(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/020c-PowderCoating-2-DSC_5937.jpg)

So, I took the wire out and tossed it.  Figured it was way cheaper to spend a little wire on a new hanger. Then I used a reamer to clean out the hole.  With new wire and a reamed hole, I got an excellent electrical connection.
(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/020c-PowderCoating-3-DSC_5939.jpg)

I did this to ALL the wheels.  Then tried re-coating them.  THIS time, I made sure my air pressure was turned way down (below 10psi), AND I used the diffuser tip on the powder coating gun.  You can see that in this picture – it’s the blue round thingy on the end of the gun (yeah, it's blue, it just has red powder all over it!). The idea of the diffuser is that it helps disperse the powder while preventing the blast of air from being so strong that it blows the powder off the part.
(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/020c-PowderCoating-4-DSC_5941.jpg)

Also, I ended up doing the parts laying down, instead of suspended. I don’t know if this made any real difference – my thinking was that gravity might help some. But in the end, I think the main differences was – 1) good electrical connection, 2) taking the powdering a little more slowly, and 3) making sure I got good coverage.
(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/020c-PowderCoating-5-DSC_5944.jpg)

I think my real problem with my original coating was that I just didn’t get enough powder on the part.  The second try I think I didn’t have a good electrical connection, which made the powder not stick very well.  And with my inexperience, I didn't recognize what "enough powder" looked like.  Guess that's what experience will do for you, eh?

Here we are, baking the parts in the oven.
(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/020c-PowderCoating-6-DSC_5948.jpg)

After cooling, I took them out and started to strip the masking off.  It’s clear my masking failed on a few of the parts – I think this is a result of the many coatings and re-bakings.
(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/020c-PowderCoating-7-DSC_5950.jpg)

After a considerable clean-up effort consisting of a lot of scraping with an X-Acto knife, some wire-brushing, and the use of sandpaper on a mandrel on the lathe, here’s how the came out:
(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/020c-PowderCoating-8-DSC_5953.jpg)

Now, after the 3rd attempt, I am happy with them :)

On to black! Everything else will be powder coated black now!

One thing left to do on the wheels though. I don’t really want them to rust, and I see the steel (1018 and 12L14 – but 12L14 is worse) in my shop rust over time and I don’t really want to deal with that.  So, I’m seriously considering spray them with a clear coat.  Just regular spray paint mind you, no powder clear coat – that would be too much (I don’t really want that thick glossy look anyway). 

If you have any experience with this or feel that I’m planning to do something really stupid, please feel free to let me know!  But that’s my plan at the moment.

Thanks,
Kim

Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: b.lindsey on July 15, 2019, 12:15:19 AM
Clear coat or an oily tool dip will keep the rust at bay Kim. Good excuse to get a dipping pot and heat soluble coating. But yeah, easy to spend other people's money, just ask Tennessee Whisky  :lolb:

Bill

Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: crueby on July 15, 2019, 12:46:26 AM
Some great learning Kim! Guess that any new process has its key things, looking ng much better. For my Kozo Shay, had same concern with the rims rusting, also 12L14, so used some clear coat spray, worked fine.
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Kim on July 15, 2019, 05:31:18 AM
Thanks for the input Bill and Chris,
Good to know that others have done similar.  I've used the technique on model ships to keep the copper plating from oxidizing, and it has worked pretty well, so I hope for similar experience here.
Kim
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: crueby on July 15, 2019, 01:13:15 PM
Ship models?  Pictures?!
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: mike mott on July 15, 2019, 01:48:39 PM
Yes pictures...would be good.

Mike
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Flyboy Jim on July 15, 2019, 02:36:23 PM
The wheels came out great Kim.  :ThumbsUp: Also, I now have a better picture of the powder coating process.

I too would love to see pictures of your ship models.  :)

Jim
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Ye-Ole Steam Dude on July 15, 2019, 09:18:37 PM
Hello Kim,

OK I am also in line to see the ship photos ;D

Have a great day,
Thomas
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Kim on July 17, 2019, 04:27:05 PM
Well, since you asked, I'll post a few pics… My efforts in the model ship world are nothing compared to Chris, and Mike’s, and I’m sure many others.  I played around for a few years, completed one model and made it a good way into another.  Very modest work by comparison.

The first one was a Mississippi sternwheeler.  Not overly prototypical, but it was a fun, engaging project and got me into the hobby.
(http://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/020c-PowderCoating-KingOfTheMississippi1.jpg)

The next one I did was the HMS Surprise. It started as a kit but evolved significantly from there.  It’s plank-on-bulkhead construction and I learned a lot in the process. I painted and covered below the waterline with copper plates.  This is what I did the clear coat on.
(http://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/020c-PowderCoating-HMSSurprise2.jpg)

Here’s the lower deck with completed chain pumps.
(http://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/020c-PowderCoating-HMSSurprise1.jpg)

I was making the cannons for the main gun deck.  I didn’t like the ones that came with the kit, so I made my own.  Made 22 brass cannons and blackened them.  These were going to go on the lower deck before I put the upper deck in place.
(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/020c-PowderCoating-HMSSurpise-Cannons.jpg)

But I had so much fun making the cannons it diverted me into building a little steam engine. Then that became another, and on we went.  I haven’t gotten back to completing the ship yet.  Likely will someday.  When the mood strikes.

Oh, and there’s one more model ship I built.  This one is a pirate ship I built with my daughter. She was about 5 at the time. It’s her paint scheme.  But this one, at least, has been completed!
(http://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/020c-PowderCoating-PirateShip.jpg)

So, that’s my foray into model ships.
Kim

Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: b.lindsey on July 17, 2019, 04:37:17 PM
Thanks for showing those Kim. Funny how one hobby can lead into others isn't it?

Bill
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: crueby on July 17, 2019, 06:06:44 PM
Nice! Thanks for sharing those!
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: cnr6400 on July 17, 2019, 09:00:29 PM
Great looking ships Kim! Your cannon in particular look superb. as does the "Surprise" hull. Have you read the Patrick O'Brien books? 'HMS Surprise' is one of his best.

Got some projects like the pirate ship on the go with my 5 and 10 yr old nieces. Great to do some shop work with kids, whatever form it takes! The 5 yr old loves to do "carpentry" with rigid styrene foam (cutting, shaping, nailing, gluing it). When she progresses to working wood there will be no stopping her! Her older sister is doing some simple metal work in steel and aluminum and does very well. 

Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Kim on July 18, 2019, 05:13:28 AM
Yes, I've read many of the Patric O'Brien books.  That was, of course, part of the inspiration for me tackling that model.  I was already committed and partway into it when I learned that the Surprise in the books isn't exactly the Surprise from real life. There were some similarities, but not the same.  I chose to model the HMS Surprise from the books, which, interestingly enough, gave me a lot of source material :)

But it's been long enough now I'd have to re-do my research.  I used to know exactly how many of what guns were on each deck and all that sort of nonsense.  It's surprising (no pun intended) how much you can forget when you stop thinking about something for 7 years!  :embarassed:

And it's great to do projects with the kids.  It's fun to just see where their imaginations take them.

But it was all fun!
Kim
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Flyboy Jim on July 18, 2019, 02:55:43 PM
Nice ship models Kim.  :ThumbsUp: You are certainly not alone in the "unfinished model" arena.  :facepalm:

As far as: "It's surprising (no pun intended) how much you can forget when you stop thinking about something for 7 years!" That's no big deal. What worries me is how much I forget when I stop thinking about something for 7 MINUTES.  :facepalm:

Jim
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: mike mott on July 18, 2019, 03:25:25 PM
Quote
What worries me is how much I forget when I stop thinking about something for 7 MINUTES.

Almost spilled my tea laughing.

Mike
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Ye-Ole Steam Dude on July 18, 2019, 04:17:44 PM
Hello Kim,

Thanks for showing the ship photos. You must finish that Pirate Ship and I love the paddle wheeler.

Have a great day,
Thomas