Model Engine Maker

Supporting => My Workshop => Topic started by: propforward on July 13, 2018, 10:48:16 PM

Title: Workshop adjustments
Post by: propforward on July 13, 2018, 10:48:16 PM
Well, here is my story - such as it is.

Back in 2015 I had to take an extremely reduced salary because of circumstances beyond my control - and my new job was a silly distance from my house and shed.

So - I rented the house out, put my shed on its own electric meter and kept control of that (renters did not have access to it). That was a good move - I kept my property and still had access to my shed and tools.  :ThumbsUp:

Shed:

(https://photos.smugmug.com/Stuff/Shed/i-7Zt5ZL9/0/a76c50f4/XL/IMG_3262-XL.jpg) (https://propforward.smugmug.com/Stuff/Shed/i-7Zt5ZL9/A)

I even finished an Elmer Number 14 wobbler - about February 2016 - and that was great fun.

So anyway - I left the job that was a long way from where I lived, found a better paying one with better employers, and in the general direction of my property. Result!  :ThumbsUp:

One day on the way to work though

(https://photos.smugmug.com/Stuff/Misc/i-JRWK7Vr/0/11843b14/X2/28167950_10213591207468794_4156762205595237565_n-X2.jpg) (https://propforward.smugmug.com/Stuff/Misc/i-JRWK7Vr/A)

Unfortunately I was not in the car.  :Mad:

So anyway, a few weeks in hostipal and rehab, several weeks off work, and even more weeks on crutches and then I got mobile again. Unfortunately, the damage to hips and knees meant I didn't get to my workshop and wasn't up to standing at a machine, so model engineering went on hiatus for a few years, and so I wasn't on this forum much.

Woe is me etc and whatever.

Fast forward past some more enjoyable events, and my wife and I finally moved back to my property a few months ago. Yay!

Before we moved, I took the opportunity to empty the large "storage" part of the shed into the house garage, and finish the shed out some more.

Mostly empty after a LOT of work (it was jammed full of stuff for the last few years)

(https://photos.smugmug.com/Stuff/Shed/i-wP4zHGf/0/52419329/XL/DSC_0564%20%28Large%29-XL.jpg) (https://propforward.smugmug.com/Stuff/Shed/i-wP4zHGf/A)

(https://photos.smugmug.com/Stuff/Shed/i-GbqFhMc/0/bc198635/XL/DSC_0567%20%28Large%29-XL.jpg) (https://propforward.smugmug.com/Stuff/Shed/i-GbqFhMc/A)

So, I had a builder, electrician and HVAC guy come in, and we took a simple and inexpensive route to "finishing" this section. basically, by using steel shed siding for the ceiling and OSB for the walls, it keeps the cost way down. Not as nice as sheetrock all taped and everything, but a lot quicker and cheaper. This part of the shed will be for a combo of storage, and "messier" parts of the fabrication process including band sawing, welding and tyre changing (for motorcycles).

So, part way through

(https://photos.smugmug.com/Stuff/Shed/i-cvBpwpp/0/b08d58de/XL/IMG_3253-XL.jpg) (https://propforward.smugmug.com/Stuff/Shed/i-cvBpwpp/A)

(https://photos.smugmug.com/Stuff/Shed/i-Ws8Fgvx/0/a9c4c8db/XL/IMG_3254-XL.jpg) (https://propforward.smugmug.com/Stuff/Shed/i-Ws8Fgvx/A)

(https://photos.smugmug.com/Stuff/Shed/i-rpGKZQ6/0/661695c7/XL/IMG_3255-XL.jpg) (https://propforward.smugmug.com/Stuff/Shed/i-rpGKZQ6/A)

(https://photos.smugmug.com/Stuff/Shed/i-Wnp9cPM/0/bc58e5fb/XL/IMG_3256-XL.jpg) (https://propforward.smugmug.com/Stuff/Shed/i-Wnp9cPM/A)


Title: Re: Workshop adjustments
Post by: propforward on July 13, 2018, 11:01:31 PM
The sparky chap came in and ran wires, and the HVAC chap put in a nice big heater.

(https://photos.smugmug.com/Stuff/Shed/i-b7HWJB7/0/64e319e5/XL/IMG_3263-XL.jpg) (https://propforward.smugmug.com/Stuff/Shed/i-b7HWJB7/A)


(https://photos.smugmug.com/Stuff/Shed/i-8ptDrpS/0/7854c8ba/XL/IMG_3268-XL.jpg) (https://propforward.smugmug.com/Stuff/Shed/i-8ptDrpS/A)

And the builder put in a frame for a through the wall air unit.

(https://photos.smugmug.com/Stuff/Shed/i-5NXvbD5/0/2bf3a370/XL/IMG_3264-XL.jpg) (https://propforward.smugmug.com/Stuff/Shed/i-5NXvbD5/A)

Once the OSB started to go up, it actually started looking pretty tidy.

(https://photos.smugmug.com/Stuff/Shed/i-56hBpQF/0/e8a92c33/XL/IMG_3292-XL.jpg) (https://propforward.smugmug.com/Stuff/Shed/i-56hBpQF/A)

(https://photos.smugmug.com/Stuff/Shed/i-SRc8bs7/0/a640d2fc/XL/IMG_3294-XL.jpg) (https://propforward.smugmug.com/Stuff/Shed/i-SRc8bs7/A)

In fact, it looked so decent that I thought I'd have it painted white to brighten it up, while it was empty. I'm glad I did. Of course, as soon as it was painted I had to jam the whole shed full of stuff while we moved from our other dwelling back to this one. These pics are part way into the mess.

(https://photos.smugmug.com/Stuff/Shed/i-HPVdRsv/0/040a8a61/XL/IMG_3338-XL.jpg) (https://propforward.smugmug.com/Stuff/Shed/i-HPVdRsv/A)

(https://photos.smugmug.com/Stuff/Shed/i-rBjTx5q/0/5e6959a6/XL/IMG_3339-XL.jpg) (https://propforward.smugmug.com/Stuff/Shed/i-rBjTx5q/A)

(https://photos.smugmug.com/Stuff/Shed/i-Hm3qfqH/0/1f98b3e9/XL/IMG_3340-XL.jpg) (https://propforward.smugmug.com/Stuff/Shed/i-Hm3qfqH/A)

(https://photos.smugmug.com/Stuff/Shed/i-42hKwVS/0/3225481f/XL/IMG_3342-XL.jpg) (https://propforward.smugmug.com/Stuff/Shed/i-42hKwVS/A)

(https://photos.smugmug.com/Stuff/Shed/i-9WsVPKk/0/c6a5aa06/XL/IMG_3343-XL.jpg) (https://propforward.smugmug.com/Stuff/Shed/i-9WsVPKk/A)

For a few months, this part of the shed and the other section were both jammed solid. I don't have any pics of that - but it was depressing. Although I didn't have time to be depressed, because moving and unpacking take up so much effort.

But with that done, I gradually managed to start getting things in order. I now have access to my machine tools and work benches again, and the big area of shed is - believe it or not - getting organized.

(https://photos.smugmug.com/Stuff/Shed/i-KMVQKRZ/0/73c75427/XL/DSC_0085%20%28Large%29-XL.jpg) (https://propforward.smugmug.com/Stuff/Shed/i-KMVQKRZ/A)

(https://photos.smugmug.com/Stuff/Shed/i-SHkK92Q/0/327198f0/XL/DSC_0086%20%28Large%29-XL.jpg) (https://propforward.smugmug.com/Stuff/Shed/i-SHkK92Q/A)

(https://photos.smugmug.com/Stuff/Shed/i-qptXmbd/0/41485a01/XL/DSC_0087%20%28Large%29-XL.jpg) (https://propforward.smugmug.com/Stuff/Shed/i-qptXmbd/A)

(https://photos.smugmug.com/Stuff/Shed/i-XNqfW65/0/3aadf8e5/XL/DSC_0089%20%28Large%29-XL.jpg) (https://propforward.smugmug.com/Stuff/Shed/i-XNqfW65/A)

(https://photos.smugmug.com/Stuff/Shed/i-QXzkQQD/0/12cbc893/XL/DSC_0091%20%28Large%29-XL.jpg) (https://propforward.smugmug.com/Stuff/Shed/i-QXzkQQD/A)

There is a lot to do - much stuff to get rid of. Four motorcycles will be leaving soon, and possibly others over time.

I added two welders a few years ago - haven't used them yet - but got them for a steal of a price. This year I'll make progress with those.

(https://photos.smugmug.com/Stuff/Shed/i-dcLf5zW/0/b44201ca/XL/DSC_0104%20%28Large%29-XL.jpg) (https://propforward.smugmug.com/Stuff/Shed/i-dcLf5zW/A)

After a bit more organizing, I intend to spend a significant amount of time properly setting up my lathe and mill. I rushed into model engineering a bit, full of enthusiasm, and I see I have some adjustments to make to my machine tools. I find myself currently more interested in model engineering than motorcycling, so that will be the focus again soon.

My time away has not been wasted. I volunteered with a local university, and built them a vacuum system for making plasmas and thin films, and am helping a student there learn how to make nano structures and solid state devices. I did get to use my shop to make some fixturing for that - and it has been a rewarding process for sure.

Gratuitous pictures of strange plasma physics things:

(https://photos.smugmug.com/Stuff/Stuff/i-j6gT6DV/0/0c22e572/XL/IMG_3147-XL.jpg) (https://propforward.smugmug.com/Stuff/Stuff/i-j6gT6DV/A)

(https://photos.smugmug.com/Stuff/Stuff/i-WqRDnnQ/0/fc2acb23/X3/IMG_3151-X3.jpg) (https://propforward.smugmug.com/Stuff/Stuff/i-WqRDnnQ/A)

That's my story - looking forward to updating the shed pics as I go, and getting back to engines.
Title: Re: Workshop adjustments
Post by: propforward on July 13, 2018, 11:26:03 PM
One thing I am pleased about is that the tremendous amount of insulation is working really well. On a 95 degree day yesterday, the shoppe only got to 73 degrees, without even turning on the air conditioner. Good stuff. Still got some gaps and things to seal to make it rodent, pest and draft proof, but I must say - I really, really like my shed.
Title: Re: Workshop adjustments
Post by: zeeprogrammer on July 14, 2018, 12:43:46 AM
Wonderful story. And looks like a wonderful shop. So sorry about the accident...but it always seems to take one down an interesting and even better road.

But! I am confused. Just where are you? Your language makes me think the UK or possibly Australia or New Zealand, but you specified temps in Fahrenheit.  ;D

Which, on that note, does anyone else on my side of the pond notice an undercurrent of moving to metric? More so than used to be?
I'm fine with it. I'm just trying to get used to the transition.

Uh...yes I know that Fahrenheit and Celcius have nothing to do with metric.  ;D The question just popped up in my mind.

Anyway...I'm glad things are working out for you propforward (what is your name?) and looking forward to seeing some more builds.
Title: Re: Workshop adjustments
Post by: Ye-Ole Steam Dude on July 14, 2018, 12:53:28 AM
Wow, did not take you very long to fill up that nice shop.

Have a great day,
Thomas
Title: Re: Workshop adjustments
Post by: Ian S C on July 14, 2018, 11:23:30 AM
Zee I think he comes from USA: Milling machine Grizzly, packing case Lamb's Wedge Cut Ranch Recipe(potato chips I think)HQ Idaho, and a Lakes Gas tank outside the shed (Minnesota Propane Association). That's what happens when you leave stuff laying around.
Ian S C
Title: Re: Workshop adjustments
Post by: steamer on July 14, 2018, 12:27:59 PM
Good to see you on the boards again Prop!

Nice shop!

Welcome!

Dave
Title: Re: Workshop adjustments
Post by: steamer on July 14, 2018, 12:31:21 PM
Please share any info you have about adapting to not standing at the machines.....that would be useful.... :popcornsmall:
Title: Re: Workshop adjustments
Post by: b.lindsey on July 14, 2018, 01:13:06 PM
Great looking shed Prop. I hope my renovation will turn out as well as yours has.

Bill
Title: Re: Workshop adjustments
Post by: zeeprogrammer on July 14, 2018, 01:56:16 PM
Zee I think he comes from USA: Milling machine Grizzly, packing case Lamb's Wedge Cut Ranch Recipe(potato chips I think)HQ Idaho, and a Lakes Gas tank outside the shed (Minnesota Propane Association). That's what happens when you leave stuff laying around.

I managed to zoom in on a motorcycle license plate - Minnesota.
Title: Re: Workshop adjustments
Post by: Sleddog on July 14, 2018, 04:53:04 PM
Quote
I find myself currently more interested in model engineering than motorcycling, so that will be the focus again soon.

  ;D !       :-[ !

Glad to see/hear the shop coming along.
Title: Re: Workshop adjustments
Post by: propforward on July 15, 2018, 11:40:48 AM

But! I am confused. Just where are you?

Hello Zee - great to make your electronical acquaintance again.

The detective work on this thread was fun! I'm an expatriate Brit, currently residing in Mn, as you rightly figured out. I'm Stuart by the way, pleased to be here. I hope to post more than vague ramblings soon.

 :atcomputer:
Title: Re: Workshop adjustments
Post by: propforward on July 15, 2018, 11:46:10 AM
Wow, did not take you very long to fill up that nice shop.

Have a great day,
Thomas

Well, I already had this pile of junk on hand. I have got rid of a lot of unnecessary stuff - but there is more to go. There are 4 bikes slated for departure, and buckets of old scrap for the CB750 sidecar outfit that needs sorting out. It's been a bit like a sliding puzzle - the floor of the shoppe was completely covered at first, and grudually things got moved around, consolidated, shelves put up, and eventually walkways appeared. It's getting there - more importantly the machine shop area is opening up a bit and becoming usable again.

 (https://photos.smugmug.com/Stuff/Shed/i-N4pQ3ZS/0/918659ae/XL/DSC_0093%20%28Large%29-XL.jpg) (https://propforward.smugmug.com/Stuff/Shed/i-N4pQ3ZS/A)
Title: Re: Workshop adjustments
Post by: propforward on July 15, 2018, 11:49:54 AM
Please share any info you have about adapting to not standing at the machines.....that would be useful.... :popcornsmall:

Mostly I have been working towards standing again, which I can now do for extended periods of time again.

For the lathe that's essential - it's too high up to not stand.

For my mill - it is quite low down, and I find that this small office chair works well for sitting at it to operate it. (more junk on the floor to get rid of - it's embarrassing.)

(https://photos.smugmug.com/Stuff/Shed/i-28p28SQ/0/76ab0fcb/XL/DSC_0100%20%28Large%29-XL.jpg) (https://propforward.smugmug.com/Stuff/Shed/i-28p28SQ/A)

In the fullness of time, if needs be, since my knees are not much good any more, I could make a new stand for the lathe and lower it down to sit at. Or else I'll get a smaller lathe and bench mount it.
Title: Re: Workshop adjustments
Post by: propforward on July 15, 2018, 11:51:22 AM
Great looking shed Prop. I hope my renovation will turn out as well as yours has.

Bill

Thank you - I am quite sure yours will turn out superbly, and I am looking forward to seeing it progress. I've been reacquainting myself with some of your excellent build logs, which I think will be invaluable once I really get started again.
Title: Re: Workshop adjustments
Post by: propforward on July 15, 2018, 11:53:20 AM
Quote
I find myself currently more interested in model engineering than motorcycling, so that will be the focus again soon.

  ;D !       :-[ !

Glad to see/hear the shop coming along.

Wait - YOU!

 ;D

Good to see you here. I haven't given up on riding, but I'm not drawn to it as I once was. For now. All in good time. I've decided not to force it, and just get back to it when ready. My new Tiger is ready to rock and roll, so it's all good.
Title: Re: Workshop adjustments
Post by: Ye-Ole Steam Dude on July 15, 2018, 12:41:06 PM
Hi Stuart,

I built this Roll-around, adjustable height chair to use in my shop. It relieves your back and legs no matter what you are working on. The seat goes down to 10-inches and up to 35-inches. This might be of help to you.

Have a great day,
Thomas
Title: Re: Workshop adjustments
Post by: propforward on July 15, 2018, 01:25:54 PM
That is an excellent device - ingenious!
Title: Re: Workshop adjustments
Post by: Sleddog on July 15, 2018, 01:44:15 PM
Prop, hope to possibly see you at the Blackhills show.


http://www.blackhillsmodelengineeringshow.net
Title: Re: Workshop adjustments
Post by: Ian S C on July 15, 2018, 02:44:01 PM
We are closing in, there is a election advert on the wall for James Stuart for Sheriff, Sheriff Stuart is the Sheriff in Anoka County Minnesota, in 2015 he was national Sheriff of the year, he is still the Sheriff around those parts.
  Wish I had even a fraction of that shed.
Ian S C
Title: Re: Workshop adjustments
Post by: Ye-Ole Steam Dude on July 15, 2018, 03:36:28 PM
Hey again Stuart,

I found my original drawings to build the chair and have posted them in the "Plans and Drawings" section here in the Forum.

Thomas
Title: Re: Workshop adjustments
Post by: propforward on July 15, 2018, 11:50:50 PM
Prop, hope to possibly see you at the Blackhills show.


http://www.blackhillsmodelengineeringshow.net

I'll put that on the calendar - could be good to make a weekend of it.

I got some more sorting done today, and now the area by the lathe and mill is clear again.

(https://photos.smugmug.com/Stuff/Shed/i-MWsnWS9/0/859ecead/XL/IMG_4936edit-XL.jpg) (https://propforward.smugmug.com/Stuff/Shed/i-MWsnWS9/A)

(https://photos.smugmug.com/Stuff/Shed/i-vXfTKht/0/6a973577/XL/IMG_4937edit-XL.jpg) (https://propforward.smugmug.com/Stuff/Shed/i-vXfTKht/A)

I used to have a tire changing tool in this part - but I have now relocated it to the other part of the shoppe. I'm going to build another piece of bench to put here, which will be for my other hobby, and most specifically for the airbrush spraybooths I have. Will be useful for painting flywheels and engine bases and columns as well.

(https://photos.smugmug.com/Stuff/Shed/i-GZz5HmD/0/873a7626/XL/IMG_4939edit-XL.jpg) (https://propforward.smugmug.com/Stuff/Shed/i-GZz5HmD/A)

The air conditioner surround is a mess. I had to pull it out last weekend because it turns out it was poorly installed and leaking water. I think I have that fixed, so I'll trim around that and tidy it up.

But really, now it's time to stop with putting up shelves and moving stuff around (oh sure, there will be more of that, it never really stops) and get on to the machine tools again. Next episode - adventures in tramming a square column mill, and levelling a lathe.  :ThumbsUp:

I refuse to cut any of my castings until I make sure everything is square and aligned properly.

 :thinking:
Title: Re: Workshop adjustments
Post by: zeeprogrammer on July 16, 2018, 12:24:19 AM
Looking comfy.  :ThumbsUp:

What's the machine to the right of the lathe?

And I carefully ask...do you have another fire extinguisher near a door?
I would worry about getting to the one on the wall in case of an issue.

I see what looks to be an emergency stop to the left of the lathe. If it is...what's it for?
Title: Re: Workshop adjustments
Post by: propforward on July 16, 2018, 12:32:22 AM
Looking comfy.  :ThumbsUp:

What's the machine to the right of the lathe?

It's a cnc router - it's capable of cutting metal as well - small parts, light cuts. I keep thinking about using to engrave things, maybe make some small fancy flywheels or something. I just set up a new computer next to it today (well, not new, inherited from a previous job when I moved on, but better than the computer that was attached to the router).

Quote
And I carefully ask...do you have another fire extinguisher near a door?
I would worry about getting to the one on the wall in case of an issue.

Yes - and this one will be relocated soon. I keep flammables in a special cabinet out in the other part of the shop, and take a lot of care with that stuff - but it seemed prudent to have a few of these about. To be honest, if a fire ever starts and I can't get to the extinguisher then I'll just abandon shoppe and call the fire brigade. Hope it never comes to that, and I work the ounce of prevention vs pound of cure approach as much as possible. Nothing gets left plugged in - just as a small example.

Quote
I see what looks to be an emergency stop to the left of the lathe. If it is...what's it for?

It's actually just a lockable power switch, and I have absolutely no idea why I installed it, since all I have to do is pull the plug out of the wall to make the lathe "dead" safe. A throwback from having to consider lockout/tagout procedures at work I think.
Title: Re: Workshop adjustments
Post by: propforward on August 11, 2018, 01:10:45 PM
So I spent a bit of time rearranging that corner of the shed, and built a new bench

(https://photos.smugmug.com/Stuff/Shed/i-Vz3G6hN/0/40ec94c4/XL/IMG_4940-edit%20%28Large%29-XL.jpg) (https://propforward.smugmug.com/Stuff/Shed/i-Vz3G6hN/A)

(https://photos.smugmug.com/Stuff/Shed/i-9MCHFR7/0/c0d0996f/XL/IMG_4941-edit%20%28Large%29-XL.jpg) (https://propforward.smugmug.com/Stuff/Shed/i-9MCHFR7/A)

I did put crossbars and a top on it

(https://photos.smugmug.com/Stuff/Shed/i-5JjD6Lf/0/eaa7334d/XL/IMG_4942-edit%20%28Large%29-XL.jpg) (https://propforward.smugmug.com/Stuff/Shed/i-5JjD6Lf/A)

Decided I didn't like the layout, and last weekend rearranged some things to make it more useable. Had to cut two holes in the wall for my little hobby spray booths to vent through, and added dryer vents to the outside so that they can breathe without letting bugs, varmints, critters and old man winter in. New arrangement I am pretty happy with.

(https://photos.smugmug.com/Stuff/Shed/i-VkBxGNt/0/cba7176b/XL/IMG_4980-edit%20%28Large%29-XL.jpg) (https://propforward.smugmug.com/Stuff/Shed/i-VkBxGNt/A)

(https://photos.smugmug.com/Stuff/Shed/i-wQMCKpb/0/1ff7e6de/XL/IMG_4982-edit%20%28Large%29-XL.jpg) (https://propforward.smugmug.com/Stuff/Shed/i-wQMCKpb/A)

This area of the shed is primarily for another hobby I picked up when I wasn't mobile. Ended up enjoying it a lot, so I'm sticking with it. Not as interesting as machining, but I enjoy it anyway, and the paint booths will certainly be handy for painting up steam engines.

(https://photos.smugmug.com/Stuff/Shed/i-T63xgth/0/4458b7d8/XL/DSC_0106%20%28Large%29-XL.jpg) (https://propforward.smugmug.com/Stuff/Shed/i-T63xgth/A)

The other part of the shed is progressing nicely - got some more junk to get rid of over coming weeks, and then I'll show that area off again.

Still have to put some trim around the A/C unit, should do that today.
Title: Re: Workshop adjustments
Post by: propforward on August 11, 2018, 01:19:01 PM
Next project is tramming the mill, (I said that before, but got distracted) and setting up the coolant dispenser on the lathe and mill. Properly this time. I did it once before but wasn't happy with it.

Gradually getting back to metalwork.
Title: Re: Workshop adjustments
Post by: zeeprogrammer on August 11, 2018, 02:27:07 PM
Looks like a fun place!

Tell me about that paint booth. I've been considering one for some time now.

Is it necessary to vent if all you use is acrylic?
Title: Re: Workshop adjustments
Post by: propforward on August 11, 2018, 03:03:08 PM
Thanks Zee.

The booths are an amazon purchase, and about 100 bucks each. I am absolutely pleased as punch with them. What I have here is two paint booths next to each other, because one wasn't quite big enough. They come with LED lights, and they really light up the interior of the booth. For a cheapo solution I am really impressed. The fans are quite loud, but not enough to be safety hazard.

In terms of acrylics I use those too - I didn't buy these booths until I started using solvent based lacquer paints, where venting outside is essential. Nevertheless, breathing in acrylic paint is certainly not a good idea, but I think you can just use a decent inexpensive respirator to deal with that.

Here is the link to the spray booth

https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00NLQ019A/ref=oh_aui_detailpage_o03_s02?ie=UTF8&psc=1

They come with lengths of flexible air conditioner hose and a rectangular outlet nozzle that is designed to wedge in a window opening. When I had my scale model setup in the last house I lived in, I made a piece of PVC trim into a window insert, and put the two vents into that. You can just see it behind the spray booths in this pic.

(https://photos.smugmug.com/Scale-Models/English-Electric-Lightning-F6-148/i-NTXsjnZ/0/ccb1fe03/XL/DSC_0290%20%28Large%29-XL.jpg) (https://propforward.smugmug.com/Scale-Models/English-Electric-Lightning-F6-148/i-NTXsjnZ/A)

That was actually a fun little space, but my shed is much, much better. I do enjoy spending time in there.
Title: Re: Workshop adjustments
Post by: zeeprogrammer on August 11, 2018, 05:37:19 PM
Thanks. I had been looking at that.
Title: Re: Workshop adjustments
Post by: propforward on August 25, 2018, 06:30:27 PM
Well, today I made progress in the hobby we're more interested in, that of machining.

I have had a bad habit in the past, of pressing forwards and not paying enough attention to set up of my machine tools, then being frustrated with inaccuracies. I have vowed to pay more attention to set up, especially before starting my next engine - which is to be from castings.

So today, I made an effort to tram my mill. I already knew from previous measurements that the column was not square to the table. One direction is easily adjusted, because the head is rotatable. But for the other direction (Y direction) you really can only use shims, inserted under the column where it attaches to the base.

A couple of years ago I bought one of these:

(https://photos.smugmug.com/Stuff/Shed/i-CG6SWHJ/1/1944b02f/XL/IMG_3626%20%28Large%29-XL.jpg) (https://propforward.smugmug.com/Stuff/Shed/i-CG6SWHJ/A)

Not essential for tramming, because these tools are easily made, or you can use a single dial gauge on an arm of course - but for the price this was rather nice.

Basically, to use it you zero one gauge using a little magnet supplied with the tool

(https://photos.smugmug.com/Stuff/Shed/i-gcztwtS/0/86a09c90/XL/IMG_3627%20%28Large%29-XL.jpg) (https://propforward.smugmug.com/Stuff/Shed/i-gcztwtS/A)

Then rotate the gauge 180 degrees and zero the other dial

(https://photos.smugmug.com/Stuff/Shed/i-tp973st/0/30bd147d/XL/IMG_3629%20%28Large%29-XL.jpg) (https://propforward.smugmug.com/Stuff/Shed/i-tp973st/A)

Then you lower the head and place both gauges on to the table. As you can see, a little off in the X direction.

(https://photos.smugmug.com/Stuff/Shed/i-RT6cvhR/0/a65b5d5b/XL/IMG_3630%20%28Large%29-XL.jpg) (https://propforward.smugmug.com/Stuff/Shed/i-RT6cvhR/A)

I adjusted that in (the angle of the camera shows an error, but I was closer than this when observing each gauge up close and personal).

(https://photos.smugmug.com/Stuff/Shed/i-5JDNz58/0/4fe5f95d/XL/IMG_3631%20%28Large%29-XL.jpg) (https://propforward.smugmug.com/Stuff/Shed/i-5JDNz58/A)

That was the easy direction. The one I was really concerned about was the Y direction. Using the same calibration procedure, I discovered this amount of error:

(https://photos.smugmug.com/Stuff/Shed/i-ZmkcGzt/0/10c90c7d/XL/IMG_3632%20%28Large%29-XL.jpg) (https://propforward.smugmug.com/Stuff/Shed/i-ZmkcGzt/A)

Not very satisfactory.

It took me a few goes (during which I made the problem WAY worse before it got better), but by inserting different thickness shims under the edge of the column, I got the error down a lot (getting quite close in this pic):

(https://photos.smugmug.com/Stuff/Shed/i-9CmMF6S/0/73b86d7d/XL/IMG_3634%20%28Large%29-XL.jpg) (https://propforward.smugmug.com/Stuff/Shed/i-9CmMF6S/A)

I'll likely take a look at this periodically and see if it changes over time.

So now I can think about actually machining something.
Title: Re: Workshop adjustments
Post by: propforward on August 25, 2018, 06:50:34 PM
I should add that I did go back and check zero calibration before calling it done, and also tram in the X direction again too - best to be thorough.

Next jobs are to install the coolant drain on the lathe chip tray properly, and also add coolant dispenser to the mill.

This sudden burst of alignment enthusiasm was caused by ordering a new vise today - after reading Bills thread. Looking forward to getting that set up and actually getting on with some real play time.

 
Title: Re: Workshop adjustments
Post by: zeeprogrammer on August 25, 2018, 07:14:03 PM
Well, today I made progress in the hobby we're more interested in, that of machining.
There might just be one hobby a bit more interesting. At least there used to be.
I have had a bad habit in the past, of pressing forwards and not paying enough attention to set up of my machine tools, then being frustrated with inaccuracies. My brother.

Interesting method for zeroing the tool (i.e. the magnet). I just place mine on the surface plate. Makes me wonder if using the surface plate doesn't account for something or the other.
Title: Re: Workshop adjustments
Post by: propforward on August 25, 2018, 07:20:09 PM
I don't think so - I think it's just a means of touching down on a fixed height above the table that doesn't shift about, so that you don't have to raise or lower anything when rotating the tool around. But then you still have to lower the head down to get the DTI's onto the table.
Title: Re: Workshop adjustments
Post by: propforward on August 25, 2018, 09:12:14 PM
Well, I also got the coolant pump installed - more specifically fitted the drain spigot on the chip tray so that it doesn't leak. Seems to work fine - although I did surprise myself and spray a bit of coolant around the place. Oops. Nothing that a shop towel couldn't sort out though.

(https://photos.smugmug.com/Stuff/Shed/i-ndsjkSp/0/5e9c3246/XL/IMG_4989%20%28Large%29-XL.jpg) (https://propforward.smugmug.com/Stuff/Shed/i-ndsjkSp/A)

(https://photos.smugmug.com/Stuff/Shed/i-LMGXWHC/0/6574176c/XL/IMG_4990%20%28Large%29-XL.jpg) (https://propforward.smugmug.com/Stuff/Shed/i-LMGXWHC/A)


With all that done, I pulled this out.

(https://photos.smugmug.com/Stuff/Shed/i-RdJ8d5D/0/8bd93ded/XL/IMG_4993%20%28Large%29-XL.jpg) (https://propforward.smugmug.com/Stuff/Shed/i-RdJ8d5D/A)

I'm going to go and read up Bills thread about this, but I may well make a start on this tomorrow.



Title: Re: Workshop adjustments
Post by: b.lindsey on August 25, 2018, 10:02:17 PM
Congrats on the new vise. We will need pics of course once it arrives  :).  Looks like a PMR #1. Will be looking forward to seeing the build on that one!!!
Bill
Title: Re: Workshop adjustments
Post by: propforward on August 25, 2018, 10:10:47 PM
That's exactly what it is, and I'm excited to start. Probably with a few of the more simple parts, but I think I may even take next friday off and get a 4 day weekend in and some good shop time at long last. Actually make something instead of just organize - although there's more of that to do too.
Title: Re: Workshop adjustments
Post by: Kim on August 26, 2018, 12:24:35 AM
Nice work on the tramming, Stewart!  Nice looking tramming tool.  I've seen them, but never been convinced that the convenience would be worth it.  Did you find it helpful?  Did it make tramming simpler and make you more likely do to it more frequently? That would be a good plus!

I just barely got around to tramming my new mill (the one I got last Christmas :)).  I knew it was a little out of alignment, but hadn't bothered/remembered to do it.  But it's done now and I can rest easier.  (As long as I remember to check it periodically.  :Lol:)

Looking forward to your new thread on the PMR casting!
Kim
Title: Re: Workshop adjustments
Post by: zeeprogrammer on August 26, 2018, 12:39:20 AM
I worry about that 4-jaw chuck. 8" no? Quite a bit of weight.
Might there be a better place for it?
Title: Re: Workshop adjustments
Post by: propforward on August 26, 2018, 02:03:25 PM
Kim,

The edge technologies tool does make tramming much less of a chore, and as a result I'm likely to check tram more frequently. That said - I can't bring myself to recommend it as a "must have" tool, because there are other methods which don't need the expense. But I bought this a few years ago when I had better resources. Today, I wouldn't spend the money on this item, but I'm glad to have it. It would be pretty easy to make one to be honest - in fact I have recollection of a post by Bogstandard (I think) on just such a tool way back in the starting days of the forum.

Carl - that is indeed an 8" 4 jaw, and it is a weighty fellow. That said - not sure what a better spot would be? The pic may be deceiving - I don't have to stoop or climb over a bunch of stuff to get it, it's really easy to pull out of its spot. I may even move the coolant pump further behind the lathe now I have it running, which will improve access even more. However, I found this 8" 4 jaw a bit large on the last engine I made, so yesterday I actually ordered a smaller 4 jaw chuck and back plate, and should have those this week. I ordered some other tooling as well. I recently sold a motorcycle to fund some new items. I'd also like a new rotary table / chuck, but I'm holding off on those until I've done some more research. I may have to sell some other junk to have enough to get the right one for the job, but one thing at a time.
Title: Re: Workshop adjustments
Post by: propforward on September 01, 2018, 01:32:56 AM
Well, got a few new items today. A 6Ē 4 jaw chuck, and an E40 collet chuck and collets. I need to mount the back plates on the spindle and finish them off, but I think Iíll hold off on that until Iíve performed some alignment tests on my lathe.

(https://photos.smugmug.com/Stuff/Shed/i-sqXRj6M/0/e133c063/X3/IMG_3682-X3.jpg) (https://propforward.smugmug.com/Stuff/Shed/i-sqXRj6M/A)
Title: Re: Workshop adjustments
Post by: b.lindsey on September 01, 2018, 01:44:13 AM
Always fun to wait on the big brown truck knowing he will stop at your house with goodies  ;)

Bill
Title: Re: Workshop adjustments
Post by: propforward on September 01, 2018, 01:45:28 AM
Oh yes! Never gets old, getting new stuff. :D
Title: Re: Workshop adjustments
Post by: zeeprogrammer on September 01, 2018, 02:29:58 AM
I'll be very interested in seeing your travels with the collet chuck.
It's something I want for my lathe but I don't now enough to be confident enough to spend the bucks.
Title: Re: Workshop adjustments
Post by: propforward on September 01, 2018, 02:35:09 AM
The main reason I got it is for holding the smaller diameter round stock. It was also recommended by some machinists I know. Now - they approach machning from a production viewpoint - not the same for a hobby machinist by any means, but I like the idea of the collet chuck. Iím treating myself with funds from a motorcycle sale. :D

Still waiting for my milling vise - but they have to make it first.
Title: Re: Workshop adjustments
Post by: zeeprogrammer on September 01, 2018, 02:40:13 AM
Smaller stock yes. I'm also interested in square and hex stock.
But I have to admit, given my level of experience/interest, is it really necessary?

I'm thinking yes. At a minimum...why  not? It takes certain variables out of play for me.
Title: Re: Workshop adjustments
Post by: b.lindsey on September 01, 2018, 02:54:48 AM
What did you decide on for the vise Stuart ?

Bill
Title: Re: Workshop adjustments
Post by: propforward on September 01, 2018, 02:57:44 AM
Is it really necessary? Very good question, and one I ummed and ahhed over a fair bit. But as you say - it takes certain variables out of play, and that was the final deciding factor in the end. It was a fairly priced set up, although not inexpensive for sure. But I felt it will expand the capabilities of my lathe, without adfing a smaller machine tool.
Title: Re: Workshop adjustments
Post by: propforward on September 01, 2018, 03:00:15 AM
What did you decide on for the vise Stuart ?

Bill

I did order a Kurt 4Ē. Very excited to try it out. Should have it at the end of September.

Maybe I can pop into the Minneapolis factory and watch them make it?

Probably not - although Iíd really enjoy that.
Title: Re: Workshop adjustments
Post by: b.lindsey on September 01, 2018, 03:07:17 AM
Ah great. I guess they are still ramping up production on the 4" version, but you will love it...worth the wait!!

Bill
Title: Re: Workshop adjustments
Post by: propforward on September 01, 2018, 03:18:00 AM
Iím sure the 4Ē is much lower demand, but I think itís the right size for my little mill. I have fiund my bigger vise quite unwieldy - also itís clamping leaves a lot to be desired. It is incapable of holding work firmly against parallels. 
Title: Re: Workshop adjustments
Post by: propforward on September 01, 2018, 07:56:39 PM
Adventures in accuracy..................

Today I made a start on finding out the truth about my lathe. I'm sure I'm not the first amateur to just buy a machine tool, assume it was good and start butchering metal, but that doesn't excuse it as an approach. I now want to know where my lathe is, and then see if I can do anything about any errors.

I started with the much celebrated "Rollies Dad" method of measuring alignment. Using a 26" long aluminum round bar (rod) held only in the chuck, I performed the measurements, and found that

At headstock - TIR = 0.002"
Mid way - TIR =  .004"
At tail stock (25.375" from head position) TIR = .003"

Does it seem likely that bed twist could be such that the measurement is worse half way along? Also I wonder if there was some crud on the bar. I think I'll do this again and clean and measure the rod diameter at each position.

According to my acceptance test in the lathe manual, parallelism of headstock axis to the bedways is 0.001" over a 12" length. Based on that these measurements seem encouraging. But I'll return to that.

I then had a try at a test bar. I found a nice piece of 2" steel, and chucked it up, then took a few very light cuts along it.

(https://photos.smugmug.com/Stuff/Shed/i-jmjrKR7/0/24c21687/XL/IMG_3684%20%28Large%29-XL.jpg) (https://propforward.smugmug.com/Stuff/Shed/i-jmjrKR7/A)

(https://photos.smugmug.com/Stuff/Shed/i-4kVvVn4/0/a1255873/XL/IMG_3685%20%28Large%29-XL.jpg) (https://propforward.smugmug.com/Stuff/Shed/i-4kVvVn4/A)

The diameter of the bar measured

1.4814" at chuck end
1.4830" at mid point (4.5" )
1.4850" at end of bar (9.0")

I must admit that these numbers are better than I had expected (although I had no real reason to expect any particular amount of taper).

While looking through the manual, and investigating the headstock, I was pleased to find that the headstock is equipped with jacking screws, to use in alignment.

So it seems to me that I should be able to take out that 2 thou in 9" taper by jacking the head slightly.

On tuesday I will have access to a machinists level, so at this point I don't think I'm going to adjust anything until I put that on the bed, and see if I can double check the twist that way.

But I wonder if all I'll need to do is adjust the headstock a bit to take out the taper - and then will have a pretty accurate machine (within the realms of the home enthusiast).

I measured run out on the test bar for fun, and got approx 0.0005" at the chuck end, and a bit less than 0.0010" at the 9" end. Not sure what to make of those numbers at this point, but I think the roundness is in spec in comparison to the inspection test report. Probably not much more I can do with that aspect, and I think that is satisfactory.

After that I just busied myself with my new backplates. My lathe has locking dogs on the backplates supplied with it, so spot faced the new ones, and drilled and tapped holes to make use of those.

(https://photos.smugmug.com/Stuff/Shed/i-k3wcFfs/0/1b8cafb3/XL/IMG_3686%20%28Large%29-XL.jpg) (https://propforward.smugmug.com/Stuff/Shed/i-k3wcFfs/A)

(https://photos.smugmug.com/Stuff/Shed/i-3QhDHzH/0/9e0eb5fa/XL/IMG_3687%20%28Large%29-XL.jpg) (https://propforward.smugmug.com/Stuff/Shed/i-3QhDHzH/A)

Fun times! After tea and sammich, and more tea I expect, I'll go and do some more. I think my lathe is accurate enough to start making some of the jig parts I want for my grinding rest, but I'll hold off engine parts for now.
Title: Re: Workshop adjustments
Post by: zeeprogrammer on September 01, 2018, 08:14:46 PM
If I recall, Rollies Dad needs a straight bar. 26" is pretty long. What was the diameter?

When you turned the steel, was anything holding the end?

I'll be interested to see how you go about checking for twist with the level. I've done it but I don't have confidence I knew how.
Title: Re: Workshop adjustments
Post by: propforward on September 01, 2018, 08:22:21 PM
Well, according to the blurb, Rollies Dad method specifically does not require a straight bar, since you evaluate the difference in run out. 26" is pretty long, but I felt it would give a good idea of the nature of the whole length of the bed. However, you do need to know the diameter is either the same at each measurement point, or measure the diameter for comparison. I'll repeat it this afternoon, and add that aspect in, since this is a stock bar, it could have variation in it. Or crud on it. It's a 1" dia bar.

From Rollies Dads write up:

"The difference between the "near end average distance" and "far end average distance" is a measure of the misalignment of the spindle axis with the ways."

That means on my numbers near end and far end are 0.0005" misaligned, and the midway point is .001" misaligned (using the means of the TIR per RD method). I'm not sure I could really adjust that out without chasing my tail a lot. But I need to do this again.

I did not support the end of the steel bar - basically I followed the method outlined in my lathe manual, which was very specific about not supporting the bar end. But consequently the cuts must be very light.

I'll post my results as I keep going. Very much a voyage of discovery - quite rewarding in many ways.
Title: Re: Workshop adjustments
Post by: b.lindsey on September 01, 2018, 08:29:07 PM
Now if they would just make a 2" one for the sherline  :thinking:

Bill
Title: Re: Workshop adjustments
Post by: RonGinger on September 01, 2018, 10:01:01 PM
Rollie was a Volvo mechanic. He used to save and pass out all the gas struts he replaced. They were hard and smooth and round. I believe round was the most important requirement.

Its hard to believe how that method is all over the net. Rollies dad would be impressed. A few of  us used to gather in Rollies shop from time to time to just talk shop. His dad lived right across the street and when he saw a bunch of cars he would come over. He had been a machinist all his life, and was then in his late 80's. One day he explained the method to us all, and one guy in the group, Steve Wellcome, wrote it up for HOME SHOP MACHINIST. After it was published Steve got a letter one day with a 20 dollar bill form a guy that said he had used the method and his lathe was straight for the first time.  Later, after the NEMES group was formed (1996) Rollie described the method at a meeting and someone in the group put a write  up on the net. After that it just went nuts and has spread all over the net.

It was fun to be at the start of a legend.

Title: Re: Workshop adjustments
Post by: propforward on September 01, 2018, 11:42:38 PM
That is very cool that you were there for that. It is astounding how widespread the method is, but more astounding is that it is referred to as "Rollies Dad's" method, which is fitting, and makes me feel good that someone is getting recognized in this way.

I redid my Rollies Dad measurements. These I find more believe-able. Not sure what I did wrong first time - call it set up practice.

This time, I scribed a location at the headstock end, another 12" away, and another 12" away from that. Then measured the diameter of the bar in each location twice, at 90 degrees to each other.

Here is the set up for the vertical test. Horizontal is the same, but with the dial gauge mounted appropriately.

(https://photos.smugmug.com/Stuff/Shed/i-5628dhr/0/48f92fbc/XL/IMG_3688%20%28Large%29-XL.jpg) (https://propforward.smugmug.com/Stuff/Shed/i-5628dhr/A)

(https://photos.smugmug.com/Stuff/Shed/i-6G4qTm6/0/ceb7be74/XL/IMG_3689%20%28Large%29-XL.jpg) (https://propforward.smugmug.com/Stuff/Shed/i-6G4qTm6/A)

And here are the measurements.

(https://photos.smugmug.com/Stuff/Shed/i-9GmhjjC/0/f68d6ee8/XL/IMG_3690%20%28Large%29-XL.jpg) (https://propforward.smugmug.com/Stuff/Shed/i-9GmhjjC/A)

This essentially translates into about 4 thou misalignment over the first 12", increasing to 6 thou misalignment over the second 12" span. Given the nature of measurement and error, it's fair to call it 5 thou per foot.

I was tempted to start shimming, but I think I'm going to have a look using the machinists level first and see how it compares.
Title: Re: Workshop adjustments
Post by: zeeprogrammer on September 02, 2018, 12:11:10 AM
I may want to trade lathes with you. But I'll wait a bit and see what else you find.  ;D
Title: Re: Workshop adjustments
Post by: propforward on September 02, 2018, 12:32:37 AM
I may want to trade lathes with you. But I'll wait a bit and see what else you find.  ;D

 :ROFL:

Wait until I've adjusted it first. It might be even worse then!
Title: Re: Workshop adjustments
Post by: zeeprogrammer on September 02, 2018, 01:54:08 AM
I may want to trade lathes with you. But I'll wait a bit and see what else you find.  ;D

 :ROFL:

Wait until I've adjusted it first. It might be even worse then!

That's my M.O.
Title: Re: Workshop adjustments
Post by: 10KPete on September 02, 2018, 03:09:34 AM
I think you'll be very surprised at how much that rod droops at the end. I don't see any attempts to measure/compensate for that.

Pete
Title: Re: Workshop adjustments
Post by: propforward on September 02, 2018, 03:21:55 AM
It's a journey. As always I'm very happy to hear specifics of what I should be doing differently? As I say, next step is look at twist with the machinists level, then try straightening.
Title: Re: Workshop adjustments
Post by: Baner on September 02, 2018, 03:34:32 AM
There's been some replies as I've been typing, and I see you're going to do it - the lathe must be level before making further adjustments.

Any alignment errors you are seeing at the moment are a combination of bed misalignment, headstock misalignment and chuck misalignment. You need to minimize the variables or you'll start chasing your tail all over the lathe.

Also, make sure the whole lathe is as rigid as possible - if it's not already be sure the stand is firmly on the floor. Concrete is rarely perfectly level and often you'll need shims under the feet. Flex anywhere in the structure will affect alignment and needs to be minimized. 

If you are unsure about leveling please ask, as it is a critical first step for lathe accuracy.

Dave.
Title: Re: Workshop adjustments
Post by: propforward on September 02, 2018, 03:41:50 AM
Thanks Dave, I appreciate the comments and encouragement.
Title: Re: Workshop adjustments
Post by: 10KPete on September 02, 2018, 03:47:03 AM
I agree with all that Baner said with the exception of level. It may be that the term is used slightly differently than I..??

The bed way must be flat. Level is just so stuff doesn't roll/run/whatever.

Flat is checked on small stuff by putting the part on a surface plate.

Most lathes won't fit on most surface plates! So, we use a very sensitive level to compare one end of the bed with the other end and pray they're both the same!!!

What you do with a twisted bed depends upon the situation....

 :cheers:

Pete
Title: Re: Workshop adjustments
Post by: propforward on September 02, 2018, 03:53:20 AM
Well that level is on the way, and I can pretty much gaurantee readings each end of the bed won' be the same. I'll put off deciding how to adjust until I know what the numbers are though.

I think generally in machine tool terms everyone understands "level" to really mean "twist" - or level relative of one end of the bed to the other.
Title: Re: Workshop adjustments
Post by: zeeprogrammer on September 02, 2018, 04:50:23 AM
Well that level is on the way, and I can pretty much gaurantee readings each end of the bed won' be the same. I'll put off deciding how to adjust until I know what the numbers are though.

I think generally in machine tool terms everyone understands "level" to really mean "twist" - or level relative of one end of the bed to the other.

That's where I'm hoping to get more clarification. As has been pointed out elsewhere...lathes and mill were used on ships. I'm thinking it's all about 'twist'.
Which, to me, seems another way of saying "squareness".

I've recently learned that 'squareness' doesn't necessarily mean 90 degrees but could be 'being in the desired position/location'...like getting a room squared away.

Hm. I recently moved my lathe and now realize I never checked its 'level', 'twist', 'squareness'...or all those things we do.
I've also recently discovered that my new shop floor is not level to earth. Things roll around.
Title: Re: Workshop adjustments
Post by: Baner on September 02, 2018, 05:58:51 AM
Yep flat is what I meant.

I think leveling a lathe refers more to the tool used, rather than being 'level'. But by the nature of the tool the lathe ends up 'level' by default. ;D

Though saying that I usually shim one side of the machinist level to bring it into range, rather than jacking the whole lathe up... 
 
'Level' is not really an issue for the lathes and machining tolerances in a home shop, as long as the lathe's not going to tip over you should be right.
 
Dave.
Title: Re: Workshop adjustments
Post by: Stuart on September 02, 2018, 08:45:43 AM
The word level leads to a misconception in this case , the bed must be in the same plane at the headstock and tail stock , and is easily tested with a level .

Ok now the exception to using a level war ships , many large ships have a machine shop on board , so how do you use a level at sea ?


On a mill itís better to be tangent to the big ball , makes setup easier
On a lathe it helps but not a requirement to the accuracy of the lathe

The method I use is to get it near with a level then do test cuts on a 50mm bar with no tail stock support , this means the bar must be short ,then take the twist out of the bed with the jack screws or if your lathe has jack screws on the HS then use these . Then and only then introduce your tail stock with a longer test bar take test cuts and set over as required


If I need a taper I use a taper attachment ,but before I had that I used a set over tail stock center , and left the TS alone ( hemmigway have a kit for one )
Title: Re: Workshop adjustments
Post by: Ian S C on September 02, 2018, 11:42:49 AM
With the ??ridgidity of most stands for lathes in a home workshop, the only thing that will move with the jacking screws is the lathe stand, a bit different when the stand was an cast iron structure weighing twice(or more) the lathe its self.
Ian S C

Title: Re: Workshop adjustments
Post by: propforward on September 05, 2018, 01:08:27 AM
Machinists level arrived.

Headstock end.

(https://photos.smugmug.com/Stuff/Shed/i-GC9M9bj/0/bd57aa40/X3/IMG_3729%20%28Large%29-X3.jpg) (https://propforward.smugmug.com/Stuff/Shed/i-GC9M9bj/A)

Tailstock end

(https://photos.smugmug.com/Stuff/Shed/i-GCpBKBs/0/ee772093/X3/IMG_3730%20%28Large%29-X3.jpg) (https://propforward.smugmug.com/Stuff/Shed/i-GCpBKBs/A)

Yep, bed is twisted.

We can fix that though.

Stay tuned for the next thrilling installment of Props workshop adjustments.

Title: Re: Workshop adjustments
Post by: crueby on September 05, 2018, 01:25:25 AM
I'd blame it on local gravitic anomalies....
 :zap:
 :popcorn: :popcorn: :popcorn:
Title: Re: Workshop adjustments
Post by: propforward on September 05, 2018, 01:32:23 AM
You mean Iím standing too close to one end?

 :ROFL:
Title: Re: Workshop adjustments
Post by: zeeprogrammer on September 05, 2018, 02:32:31 AM
You mean Iím standing too close to one end?

 :ROFL:

Stand next to the other end and see if changes.  ;D

If it does...you're in a world of trouble my friend. And that's spelled with a 't'.
Title: Re: Workshop adjustments
Post by: propforward on September 05, 2018, 02:44:54 AM
Or trouble spelled with a capital S.

 :thinking:

Well anyway, the weekend can't get here too soon. I want to try adjusting things now.

If the cabinets are too flimsy, and I can't straighten the bed out, or if it doesn't hold over time, then I may have work waterjet me out some 1/2" thick steel plates to beef up the cabinets a bit. I don't get those for free though, so I'll try as is first.
Title: Re: Workshop adjustments
Post by: zeeprogrammer on September 05, 2018, 02:57:25 AM
What is that measurement? 2 ? over what ?.

If I understand correctly...you set the level across the ways at one end and then some distance (other end)?
I ask because I want to know if I did it right.
It looked like mine had no twist...but I don't know if I measured correctly.
Title: Re: Workshop adjustments
Post by: b.lindsey on September 05, 2018, 03:01:44 AM
Nice looking level Stuart. Great addition to the toolbox even if not used regularly.

Bill
Title: Re: Workshop adjustments
Post by: propforward on September 05, 2018, 03:02:22 AM
Zee - the specific measurement doesn't matter so much - basically the gauge needs to read the same each end of the bed. Again - being "level" isn't what's important here - being flat (along the bed) is. I'm not about to take the time to get the bubble in the middle of the gauge at each end, I'm just going to match the tailstock end (picture 2) to the headstock end (picture 1).

On Saturday, when I get into this, I'll position the level carefully and record what I'm doing, and post about it. Tonight was a quick placement to see what I have ahead of me. This looks to me like I should be able to use shims to get the twist out.
Title: Re: Workshop adjustments
Post by: propforward on September 05, 2018, 03:03:24 AM
Nice looking level Stuart. Great addition to the toolbox even if not used regularly.

Bill

Thanks Bill - I thought so too. Plus I can use it to get my turntable set up properly as well. I went back and forth about the expense, but being able to keep an eye on the bed over time easily is a nice facility to have.
Title: Re: Workshop adjustments
Post by: zeeprogrammer on September 05, 2018, 03:07:34 AM
The precise measurement doesn't matter so much - basically the gauge needs to read the same each end of the bed. Again - being "level" isn't what's important here - being flat is. I'm not about to take the time to get the bubble in the middle of the gauge at each end, I'm just going to match the tailstock end (picture 2) to the headstock end (picture 1).

Understood. You want the same reading, whatever it is, at both ends. I was just curious to know how much twist those readings meant.
As I said before, you're my guinea pig  ;D so I can learn to improve my own machine's accuracy.  ;D

No pressure.  ;D
Title: Re: Workshop adjustments
Post by: propforward on September 05, 2018, 03:11:01 AM
The precise measurement doesn't matter so much - basically the gauge needs to read the same each end of the bed. Again - being "level" isn't what's important here - being flat is. I'm not about to take the time to get the bubble in the middle of the gauge at each end, I'm just going to match the tailstock end (picture 2) to the headstock end (picture 1).

Understood. You want the same reading, whatever it is, at both ends. I was just curious to know how much twist those readings meant.
As I said before, you're my guinea pig  ;D so I can learn to improve my own machine's accuracy.  ;D

No pressure.  ;D

Well, each graduation represents 0.005Ē out of level per 12Ē of distance. I will make an initial judgement of shim thickness to try based on that. Got to start somewhere. After that......

I hope I donít disappoint! The pressure is on. Iíll psych myself up for a few days.
Title: Re: Workshop adjustments
Post by: 10KPete on September 05, 2018, 05:05:47 AM
After you check each end I would recommend that you release any fasteners holding the bed to legs, bench, etc. and see what happens. If you must apply forces to straighten the bed you'll want to know the real adjustment needed.

Pete
Title: Re: Workshop adjustments
Post by: Baner on September 05, 2018, 10:00:18 AM
Iíll second Peteís advice. Lathe beds usually spring back to level when the fasteners are released. Twist tends to be the fault of flimsy sheet metal stands, on this size of lathe anyway.
Also, Feeler gauges are a cheap source of a large range of shim stock, handy when you need to make super fine adjustments to lathe levels.
Dave.
Title: Re: Workshop adjustments
Post by: propforward on September 05, 2018, 01:20:52 PM
Yes indeed, that sounds like a logical approach, that's what I will do. Thanks for your input!
Title: Re: Workshop adjustments
Post by: propforward on September 08, 2018, 05:52:49 PM
One of these arrived during the week.

(https://photos.smugmug.com/Stuff/Shed/i-dwbVJV6/0/a3a03e7d/XL/IMG_4994%20%28Large%29-XL.jpg) (https://propforward.smugmug.com/Stuff/Shed/i-dwbVJV6/A)

Should be useful for some general tasks. Available from all the usual import machinery places for the same price.

Anyway, enough of that. I know you are all gagging to know about the exciting adventures of lathe alignment.

So off we go.

First off, I loosened all the bolts securing the lathe to the stand, and placed the level at headstock and tailstock ends.

Headstock:

(https://photos.smugmug.com/Stuff/Shed/i-kVMWc2w/0/4667ac5d/XL/IMG_4996%20%28Large%29-XL.jpg) (https://propforward.smugmug.com/Stuff/Shed/i-kVMWc2w/A)

Tailstock:

(https://photos.smugmug.com/Stuff/Shed/i-Bk8vs8h/0/d58ad7b9/XL/IMG_4997%20%28Large%29-XL.jpg) (https://propforward.smugmug.com/Stuff/Shed/i-Bk8vs8h/A)

Would have been nice if they had read the same, but it is what it proverbially is.

Since I had everything loosened up, I thought I'd make an attempt at levelling the lathe crosswise, as well as straightening it.

At one point, I was nearly there.

(https://photos.smugmug.com/Stuff/Shed/i-3tTxM8Q/0/6608bbfa/XL/IMG_5000%20%28Large%29-XL.jpg) (https://propforward.smugmug.com/Stuff/Shed/i-3tTxM8Q/A)

However - the truth is that the stands that came with the lathe are flimsy, and just as predicted by several folks, it is damned difficult to get the machine to behave.

In the end, after much shimming, I decided to abandon the crosswise levelling somewhat, and focus on removing twist.

It took a lot of work, but at the end the scale read as follows:

Headstock end

(https://photos.smugmug.com/Stuff/Shed/i-39NNcSM/0/e93b7d7c/XL/IMG_5001%20%28Large%29-XL.jpg) (https://propforward.smugmug.com/Stuff/Shed/i-39NNcSM/A)

Tailstock end

(https://photos.smugmug.com/Stuff/Shed/i-WgKcb9r/0/afbe9687/XL/IMG_5002%20%28Large%29-XL.jpg) (https://propforward.smugmug.com/Stuff/Shed/i-WgKcb9r/A)

Now tell me if you think I'm wrong, but honestly I think that's as close as I'm going to get it on these stands. You have to overcompensate with shims, to deliberately bow the stand some and still apply twist to the lathe. I don't have a lot of confidence that this will stay put over time - so I'll keep checking it periodically - but I think this is going to have to be acceptable for the time being. A future project may be to fabricate a really solid welded square steel tube frame.

In the meantime, on to the test bar.
Title: Re: Workshop adjustments
Post by: b.lindsey on September 08, 2018, 05:58:15 PM
That looks pretty good to me! Nice addition on the little sander too. That should be handy for lots of things.

Bill
Title: Re: Workshop adjustments
Post by: propforward on September 08, 2018, 06:01:12 PM
So here is my test bar - 1 1/2" diameter, with 8 1/2" of length available for turning.

(https://photos.smugmug.com/Stuff/Shed/i-tL4QgFb/0/90610e35/XL/IMG_5003%20%28Large%29-XL.jpg) (https://propforward.smugmug.com/Stuff/Shed/i-tL4QgFb/A)

I took a very light skim cut along the bar, a couple of times until I was certain I had turned the whole diameter all the way along, then measured the bar at the headstock end, center of the machined portion and far end of the machined portion. Measurements were taken 4 times in each place, rotating the chuck 90 degrees between each measurement, to get an average for each position.

Here are my results:

(https://photos.smugmug.com/Stuff/Shed/i-ZC96vjf/0/fdebfd59/XL/IMG_5005%20%28Large%29-XL.jpg) (https://propforward.smugmug.com/Stuff/Shed/i-ZC96vjf/A)

The red number is just becuase I picked up a different pen.

Averages

Headstock - 1.4668"

Center - 1.4659"

End - 1.4645"

So approximately 0.001" of taper per 4"

That seems a bit much. So now I'm psyching myself up to attempt a headstock alignment.
Title: Re: Workshop adjustments
Post by: Baner on September 08, 2018, 06:05:17 PM
Stuart, it looks like the bubble in the level is sitting at maximum travel. It may not be indicating level. The bubble needs to be within the red lines to be reading true. You can shim the level on one side to bring the bubble into range. Just make sure the shim is placed at the same point on the level on each reading. 

Dave.
Title: Re: Workshop adjustments
Post by: propforward on September 08, 2018, 06:05:37 PM
That looks pretty good to me! Nice addition on the little sander too. That should be handy for lots of things.

Bill

Thanks! I really don't see getting it any better.

I keep running into little clean up jobs where I think a sander will be less agressive and easier to use than a grinding wheel, and hopefully a little better than a hand file.
Title: Re: Workshop adjustments
Post by: propforward on September 08, 2018, 06:07:43 PM
Stuart, it looks like the bubble in the level is sitting at maximum travel. It may not be indicating level. The bubble needs to be within the red lines to be reading true. You can shim the level on one side to bring the bubble into range. Just make sure the shim is placed at the same point on the level on each reading. 

Dave.

I'll double check that immediately, but if you look at some of the other pictures you can see the bubble can disappear way off beyond the visible area of the scale.

Didn't think of shimming the level though to get better readings - that's smart. Back off to the shed. If the level reading is still satisfactory then I'll be looking in to removing the taper.
Title: Re: Workshop adjustments
Post by: Baner on September 08, 2018, 06:16:04 PM
My bad Stuart. Just went and checked my level, (same as yours) and youíre right, the bubble does travel further. Sorry, Iíve been tripped up on that problem before, it looked like it was happening to you too.

Dave.
Title: Re: Workshop adjustments
Post by: zeeprogrammer on September 08, 2018, 07:49:44 PM
Nice! This is helpful.
I'm looking forward to seeing how the head stock alignment goes. I suspect I need to the same thing.

You no doubt know this...keep that sander away from your fine machines.
Title: Re: Workshop adjustments
Post by: propforward on September 08, 2018, 07:58:40 PM
My bad Stuart. Just went and checked my level, (same as yours) and youíre right, the bubble does travel further. Sorry, Iíve been tripped up on that problem before, it looked like it was happening to you too.

Dave.

Oh no - no worries at all. I very much appreciate such advice, as it helps me to be thorough. I did what you suggest anyway, which has the added benefit of increasing measurement accuracy. By moving the bubble to the center of the range, you get it onto some graduations, so makes for a better reading.

Headstock:

(https://photos.smugmug.com/Stuff/Shed/i-ZTxDc2b/0/4460e8ea/XL/IMG_5007%20%28Large%29-XL.jpg) (https://propforward.smugmug.com/Stuff/Shed/i-ZTxDc2b/A)

Tailstock:

(https://photos.smugmug.com/Stuff/Shed/i-b47NsFX/0/1dc1e10f/XL/IMG_5006%20%28Large%29-XL.jpg) (https://propforward.smugmug.com/Stuff/Shed/i-b47NsFX/A)

Pretty close I think. Bear in mind again some parallax error from camera positioning. When looking with your eye in real life, the readings are closer - although not identical.

Title: Re: Workshop adjustments
Post by: propforward on September 08, 2018, 08:03:29 PM
More good news though - I made adjustments to the headstock using the jacking screws.

After the first adjustment, here are my measurements:

(https://photos.smugmug.com/Stuff/Shed/i-6wDmgbs/0/1edccd40/XL/IMG_5009%20%28Large%29-XL.jpg) (https://propforward.smugmug.com/Stuff/Shed/i-6wDmgbs/A)

Down to about 0.0007" taper per 4". Not too bad.

After another adjustment:

(https://photos.smugmug.com/Stuff/Shed/i-K7sP3F3/0/265819aa/XL/IMG_5010%20%28Large%29-XL.jpg) (https://propforward.smugmug.com/Stuff/Shed/i-K7sP3F3/A)

I think I am now within gauge uncertainty levels (not that I've performed a gauge R and R study), but given that the head stock and mid way readings overlap, and the far end average is .0004" off the headstock end - well I'm just going to declare the lathe as fit for making parts.

Still need to set up the tailstock, which is next. Or maybe I'll machine the new backing plates for the chucks now, then do the tailstock.

I have to say though, I am quietly (not too quietly) pleased with myself for making me go through this.
Title: Re: Workshop adjustments
Post by: propforward on September 08, 2018, 08:04:39 PM
Nice! This is helpful.
I'm looking forward to seeing how the head stock alignment goes. I suspect I need to the same thing.

You no doubt know this...keep that sander away from your fine machines.

 :ThumbsUp:

The sander is in a whole different room. Band saw and sander are in the "dirty" part of the shop. Or - perhaps that should be "non precision" part.
Title: Re: Workshop adjustments
Post by: zeeprogrammer on September 08, 2018, 08:06:31 PM
Nice! This is helpful.
I'm looking forward to seeing how the head stock alignment goes. I suspect I need to the same thing.

You no doubt know this...keep that sander away from your fine machines.

 :ThumbsUp:

The sander is in a whole different room. Band saw and sander are in the "dirty" part of the shop. Or - perhaps that should be "non precision" part.

My whole shop is the 'non precision' part.  :lolb:
Title: Re: Workshop adjustments
Post by: propforward on September 08, 2018, 08:11:58 PM
:D

I don't buy that. I see the parts you make. That popcorn engine is going to be a cracker. Or is that a popper?  :thinking:

Anyway, this also showed up. A little 2" compound milling vise.

(https://photos.smugmug.com/Stuff/Shed/i-3Bk6nZd/0/704af8ad/XL/IMG_5008%20%28Large%29-XL.jpg) (https://propforward.smugmug.com/Stuff/Shed/i-3Bk6nZd/A)

All I'm waiting for now is my Kurt vise - but then that is the end of the money from the motorcycle sale. I'd need to sell another bike to have signifcantly more tooling money - not quite ready to do that. In any case, I'm well set up now. Time to make parts!
Title: Re: Workshop adjustments
Post by: zeeprogrammer on September 08, 2018, 09:37:12 PM
Nice!  :ThumbsUp:

That looks very similar to the X feed I have. I love that thing.
Title: Re: Workshop adjustments
Post by: b.lindsey on September 08, 2018, 09:51:14 PM
Well done Stuart. Once I get the lathe all rejuvinated (cleaned and painted and all lubed up) I am planning on going through the process as well. Thanks for leading the way.

Bill
Title: Re: Workshop adjustments
Post by: Kim on September 08, 2018, 11:20:54 PM
Very nice Stewart!  It's a bit of a pain, but you'll be happy to know you did it as you move forward with parts making.

Thanks for sharing your journey,
Kim
Title: Re: Workshop adjustments
Post by: zeeprogrammer on September 08, 2018, 11:32:12 PM
Not yet fellas. He hasn't done the head stock alignment yet.  ;D

No pressure.
Title: Re: Workshop adjustments
Post by: propforward on September 08, 2018, 11:42:43 PM
Thanks everyone for your support. The input I have received has been very helpful indeed.


Not yet fellas. He hasn't done the head stock alignment yet.  ;D

No pressure.

You mean tail stock. Turns out that this was the easy bit.

A couple of years ago I purchased an edge technologies tailstock alignment bar. There's no need to go this route of course, but at the time I was afeared of making one. Anyway since I have it, I used it.

The setup:

(https://photos.smugmug.com/Stuff/Shed/i-2h2HS3p/0/2b14c12a/XL/IMG_5011%20%28Large%29-XL.jpg) (https://propforward.smugmug.com/Stuff/Shed/i-2h2HS3p/A)


Zeroed the gauge at the headstock end

(https://photos.smugmug.com/Stuff/Shed/i-xhTLh9c/0/c9d490b5/XL/IMG_5012%20%28Large%29-XL.jpg) (https://propforward.smugmug.com/Stuff/Shed/i-xhTLh9c/A)

Moved down the bed to the other end and...............

(https://photos.smugmug.com/Stuff/Shed/i-rjZ4Hvc/0/36f54696/XL/IMG_5013%20%28Large%29-XL.jpg) (https://propforward.smugmug.com/Stuff/Shed/i-rjZ4Hvc/A)

Turned the spindle over by hand - the needle didn't move. Well, it sort of vibrated. I didn't believe it so I did it a few more times, same result each time.

So I turned my attention to my new chucks.

I carefully faced the backing plate, then turned the step diameter down ever so carefully, and got a nice, tight fit in the chuck.

(https://photos.smugmug.com/Stuff/Shed/i-nmRWGq7/0/94769e19/XL/IMG_5014%20%28Large%29-XL.jpg) (https://propforward.smugmug.com/Stuff/Shed/i-nmRWGq7/A)

Bit of a shame that the counterbores and holes for the screws aren't the right size on the backing plate. Never mind, easily fixed on the mill. Job for the morning.

(https://photos.smugmug.com/Stuff/Shed/i-bGGhq65/0/b2cf778c/XL/IMG_5016%20%28Large%29-XL.jpg) (https://propforward.smugmug.com/Stuff/Shed/i-bGGhq65/A)

I did the same for my collet chuck, and by really slowly sneaking up the diameter, got a perfect sliding fit. I can't feel any play at all, so very happy about that.

I now have a collet chuck! I think this will be really helpful for the small diameter stock.

(https://photos.smugmug.com/Stuff/Shed/i-zNrGRFX/0/8a858b90/XL/IMG_5015%20%28Large%29-XL.jpg) (https://propforward.smugmug.com/Stuff/Shed/i-zNrGRFX/A)

Having cleaned off the lathe and oiled it, it's now time for a barley pop, and some quality time with the missus.

A good, productive day today, I really feel good about all this.

 :whoohoo:

Thanks everyone for following along. A bit of encouragement is good to have.
Title: Re: Workshop adjustments
Post by: b.lindsey on September 09, 2018, 12:14:32 AM
Thought he described that above Zee.

Bill
Title: Re: Workshop adjustments
Post by: propforward on September 09, 2018, 12:23:57 AM
I think he meant tailstock.
Title: Re: Workshop adjustments
Post by: Baner on September 09, 2018, 12:33:47 AM
Excellent job Stuart! :ThumbsUp: :ThumbsUp:

Machine tools are so much nicer to use when setup properly. :)

Dave.

Title: Re: Workshop adjustments
Post by: b.lindsey on September 09, 2018, 12:34:49 AM
I find the Edge Technology guys have some helpful things in their line up, and reasonably priced for the most part.

Bill
Title: Re: Workshop adjustments
Post by: propforward on September 09, 2018, 12:59:50 AM
Yes they do - on the whole decent value I think.
Title: Re: Workshop adjustments
Post by: zeeprogrammer on September 09, 2018, 02:12:04 AM
You mean tail stock. Turns out that this was the easy bit..
Thought he described that above Zee.

Okay okay. I got my head mixed up with my tail. Happens all the time.

On the other hand...he still has to look at the head stock, no?  ;D

Very useful and helpful Stuart!

But...it sounds like your tailstock is fine. Which means I learned nothing.  :'(

And you got a collet chuck!!! You bum! That's on the top of my list but I can't do it until I have confidence my machine is properly adjusted...and can find something that works.

[EDIT] got my pastings screwed up but I think it's readable. It's late. What I can I say?
Title: Re: Workshop adjustments
Post by: propforward on September 09, 2018, 02:36:51 AM
I've had a few beers, so I can interpret your postings perfectly!
Title: Re: Workshop adjustments
Post by: propforward on September 22, 2018, 12:41:33 AM
Well, a great big YAY today, my new vise arrived. Very nice it is too.

(https://photos.smugmug.com/Stuff/Shed/i-x7x5MW5/0/8435549b/XL/IMG_3750-XL.jpg) (https://propforward.smugmug.com/Stuff/Shed/i-x7x5MW5/A)

(https://photos.smugmug.com/Stuff/Shed/i-PZv9vCn/0/acd11b41/XL/IMG_3751-XL.jpg) (https://propforward.smugmug.com/Stuff/Shed/i-PZv9vCn/A)

(https://photos.smugmug.com/Stuff/Shed/i-JhppCbc/0/88878413/XL/IMG_3753-XL.jpg) (https://propforward.smugmug.com/Stuff/Shed/i-JhppCbc/A)

Itís not like no one here has ever seen a Kurt vise before, but this is MY Kurt vise, and Iím ever closer to actually making steam engine parts.

So thatís nice.
Title: Re: Workshop adjustments
Post by: propforward on September 22, 2018, 12:51:08 AM
The cheap old import vise will come off of there in the morning. I'll likely get rid of it, although not immediately.
Title: Re: Workshop adjustments
Post by: crueby on September 22, 2018, 01:15:06 AM
Only thing better than new tools is top notch new tools!


 :cartwheel:
Title: Re: Workshop adjustments
Post by: b.lindsey on September 22, 2018, 01:32:13 AM
It's beautiful Stuart!! You will notice quite a difference between it and the import I am sure.  Congrats on the new toy.

Bill
Title: Re: Workshop adjustments
Post by: Flyboy Jim on September 22, 2018, 04:23:45 AM
What a beautiful vise! :ThumbsUp: Might be a little big for my Sherline mill, but I'd love to have one to just set on my workbench and look at!
Title: Re: Workshop adjustments
Post by: ShopShoe on September 22, 2018, 01:33:32 PM
Slight Diversion of Thread for Banter:

Quote:

"And you got a collet chuck!!! You bum! That's on the top of my list but I can't do it until I have confidence my machine is properly adjusted...and can find something that works."

--

If you have to justify it, just remember that collets should be more accurate and you have to use one to line up your machine more accurately. At least that's what I tell myself...........


ShopShoe
Title: Re: Workshop adjustments
Post by: propforward on September 22, 2018, 01:34:51 PM
Slight Diversion of Thread for Banter:

This thread is always open to diversionary banter.  :ThumbsUp:
Title: Re: Workshop adjustments
Post by: Sleddog on September 22, 2018, 02:13:59 PM
Very nice Prop! You should celebrate with PIE!
Title: Re: Workshop adjustments
Post by: propforward on September 22, 2018, 02:37:53 PM
Excellent idea! I shall make it so.  :lolb:
Title: Re: Workshop adjustments
Post by: Tennessee Whiskey on September 22, 2018, 05:02:52 PM
Nice one Stuart. I think I remember you saying it was a 4Ē. I bought myself a new 4Ē  once for my Grizzly mill. Due to the size of the mill, I had to move the moving jaw plate to the rear of the the jaw to hold the wide part. Needless to say, I forgot about where the part was now touching and drilled a nice 5/16Ē divot in the movable side  :facepalm: :facepalm2:  Bought Bridgeport clone next week with a new 6Ē Kurt. I still walk by the 4Ē and slap myself in the back of the head  :lolb:  Enjoy it man

Whiskey
Title: Re: Workshop adjustments
Post by: propforward on September 23, 2018, 12:30:25 AM
Thanks Whiskey, those things are easily done, alas.

Pleased to say the Kurt is everything everyone says they are. That import vise has no lockdown mechanism like the Kurt does, and that Kurt holds things SOLID. Very nice. Wasn't sure at first if it was worth spending the $$'s on such a tool to put it on a basic import mill, but actually it was well worth doing, especially after making the effort tram the mill.
Title: Re: Workshop adjustments
Post by: Art K on September 23, 2018, 02:41:17 AM
Stuart,
I have enjoyed following up on your workshop. I have the standard 1/2 acre plot in the city of Madison. I added 8 feet to the back of my garage to have my present shop. Not large by any standard but adequate. I do need to do some sort of set up to use the band saw from my dad. I will need to special order some 62" metal blades, but it will be better than a hacksaw.
Art
Title: Re: Workshop adjustments
Post by: propforward on September 23, 2018, 12:47:21 PM
Thanks Art, great to hear from you. You will find that bandsaw a very handy addition. Much easier than a hacksaw for cutting blanks of stock for one thing.

Mine is a cheapo one from Grizzly, and it took a lot of set up, but now it does a decent job.
Title: Re: Workshop adjustments
Post by: crueby on September 23, 2018, 02:39:24 PM
Thanks Art, great to hear from you. You will find that bandsaw a very handy addition. Much easier than a hacksaw for cutting blanks of stock for one thing.

Mine is a cheapo one from Grizzly, and it took a lot of set up, but now it does a decent job.
This year I added a bandsaw from SawBlade.com, current project has been giving it a huge workout, very happy with it. I find it makes a much squarer cut with much less waste and cleanup on the lathe, plus is much much faster and easier on me.
Title: Re: Workshop adjustments
Post by: Flyboy Jim on September 24, 2018, 09:25:45 PM
Thanks Art, great to hear from you. You will find that bandsaw a very handy addition. Much easier than a hacksaw for cutting blanks of stock for one thing.

Mine is a cheapo one from Grizzly, and it took a lot of set up, but now it does a decent job.
This year I added a bandsaw from SawBlade.com, current project has been giving it a huge workout, very happy with it. I find it makes a much squarer cut with much less waste and cleanup on the lathe, plus is much much faster and easier on me.

Which bandsaw model did you get Chris?

Jim
Title: Re: Workshop adjustments
Post by: crueby on September 24, 2018, 11:13:32 PM
Thanks Art, great to hear from you. You will find that bandsaw a very handy addition. Much easier than a hacksaw for cutting blanks of stock for one thing.

Mine is a cheapo one from Grizzly, and it took a lot of set up, but now it does a decent job.
This year I added a bandsaw from SawBlade.com, current project has been giving it a huge workout, very happy with it. I find it makes a much squarer cut with much less waste and cleanup on the lathe, plus is much much faster and easier on me.

Which bandsaw model did you get Chris?

Jim
Its the Trajan 125, working out very well for me. I have used it to cut all the stainless and brass stock for all the wheels, pulleys, gears, plus all the bar stock on the Marion build. The original blade that came with it lasted a fair while, had to replace it a couple weeks ago, but it had made a lot of cuts in 2 and 3" diameter steel bar stock - it had not gone dull, but the weld cracked where the blade was joined up. I had gotten a handful of spare blades at the same time, I think they are a little better quality than the first one. They have a large variety of blade styles, with a selector for what kind of stock you will be cutting to help you pick the right one. One thing I like with this saw is that it does not require oil or coolant (says not to use it), since the speed is adjustable for the type and size of bar stock. It cuts nice and square so I waste less metal, the vise will take up to 5" bar. It seems much better made than the big box store brands, but is priced higher too.
Title: Re: Workshop adjustments
Post by: Flyboy Jim on September 25, 2018, 04:47:28 AM
Its the Trajan 125, working out very well for me. I have used it to cut all the stainless and brass stock for all the wheels, pulleys, gears, plus all the bar stock on the Marion build. The original blade that came with it lasted a fair while, had to replace it a couple weeks ago, but it had made a lot of cuts in 2 and 3" diameter steel bar stock - it had not gone dull, but the weld cracked where the blade was joined up. I had gotten a handful of spare blades at the same time, I think they are a little better quality than the first one. They have a large variety of blade styles, with a selector for what kind of stock you will be cutting to help you pick the right one. One thing I like with this saw is that it does not require oil or coolant (says not to use it), since the speed is adjustable for the type and size of bar stock. It cuts nice and square so I waste less metal, the vise will take up to 5" bar. It seems much better made than the big box store brands, but is priced higher too.

That's a nice looking bandsaw Chris. Looks perfect for what we do.
Title: Re: Workshop adjustments
Post by: zeeprogrammer on September 30, 2018, 04:27:12 PM
What kind of footprint does that Trajan 125 take?
I've been thinking of getting rid of my horizontal saw. It takes up quite a bit of space, is messy, and I very rarely use it in vertical mode.
(By getting 'rid of' I mean moving it into the garage.)
Title: Re: Workshop adjustments
Post by: crueby on September 30, 2018, 05:31:34 PM
What kind of footprint does that Trajan 125 take?
I've been thinking of getting rid of my horizontal saw. It takes up quite a bit of space, is messy, and I very rarely use it in vertical mode.
(By getting 'rid of' I mean moving it into the garage.)
It takes up a 28"x12" space on the bench, the saw section has a lock to hold it down horizontal so you can pick it up by the back of the blade guide to carry it around. It does not go up fully vertical. I was able to get mine at their intruductory sale price, it is up to normal price now. I don't know if they do sales around christmas or not. (I am in no way connected to that company)

https://www.sawblade.com/order-bandsaw-machine-trajan125.cfm

Title: Re: Workshop adjustments
Post by: Flyboy Jim on October 03, 2018, 02:59:48 AM
What kind of footprint does that Trajan 125 take?
I've been thinking of getting rid of my horizontal saw. It takes up quite a bit of space, is messy, and I very rarely use it in vertical mode.
(By getting 'rid of' I mean moving it into the garage.)
It takes up a 28"x12" space on the bench, the saw section has a lock to hold it down horizontal so you can pick it up by the back of the blade guide to carry it around. It does not go up fully vertical. I was able to get mine at their intruductory sale price, it is up to normal price now. I don't know if they do sales around christmas or not. (I am in no way connected to that company)

https://www.sawblade.com/order-bandsaw-machine-trajan125.cfm

Looks like they're temporarily out of stock right now. I like the idea of a saw that can be stored out of the way when not needed. I've looked back at my past projects and thought about future projects and there's not anything that it couldn't of cut for me.
Title: Re: Workshop adjustments
Post by: Steamer5 on October 03, 2018, 04:03:04 AM
Hi guys,
A bandsaw in the shop soon becomes one of the most used tools ....... well it does in mine!
Hay Zee have a hunt for the mods I did to my saw, putting it on wheels makes moving it around easy. Oh you need to make the wheels on one end are lockable. Making the quick change bigger table means putting it on & off you donít  try to do something that you shouldnít on the ďlittle tableĒ backstop

Cheers Kerrin