Model Engine Maker

Help! => Specific Engine Help => Topic started by: geoff5269 on June 07, 2018, 12:26:28 PM

Title: Do you know this engine, Verticle Twin with rotary valves.
Post by: geoff5269 on June 07, 2018, 12:26:28 PM
I bought an old copy of Model Engineer no 4038  1997 with this picture on the cover thinking there might be a build series inside, but there wasn't.
It was made by John Cogden of City of Sunderland M.E.S. and I thought it quite interesting with it's rotary valves.
Does anyone know if this is a published design or not.
Geoff
Title: Re: Do you know this engine, Verticle Twin with rotary valves.
Post by: Jo on June 07, 2018, 01:00:24 PM
Its based on the 1893 Musgrave Non Dead Centre twin Cylinder inverted Compound Steam Engine at the Bolton Steam Museum.

I have not seen the design for the model published the museum may be able to help you. As it won a bronze medal it may well be a one off.

Edit: A similar engine with castings was available from Lothar Matrian (Matrian-damp@doton.net +49 231/71 49 88)  build published in ME 2009. The GA in ME 4350 page 513 is probably sufficient to build one out of bar stock if you cannot contact Lothar.

Jo
Title: Re: Do you know this engine, Verticle Twin with rotary valves.
Post by: Jasonb on June 07, 2018, 01:42:20 PM
Yes as Jo says if you can't get hold of him and I have heard people don't get anything from that e-mail address recently then the GA and the photos in the 3 part series should be enough to come up with something from scratch.
Title: Re: Do you know this engine, Verticle Twin with rotary valves.
Post by: Jo on June 07, 2018, 01:51:02 PM
Some more pics of one of Lothar's Musgrave engines are here: https://matthes.the-steamers.ch/matthes25/index.php/multimedia/fotos/meine-modelle/18-musgrave-von-lothar-matrian

As Andreas has made one it might be worth seeing if he can help you contact Lothar

Jo
Title: Re: Do you know this engine, Verticle Twin with rotary valves.
Post by: steam guy willy on June 07, 2018, 02:02:28 PM
Nice engine ..cunning use of single crank for twin cylinders  Memo to self, btw ...'put some more hours into my engine build ' also It would be good to have a data base of these copies of engines that are in museums. !! Like the Bridewell ,Hedley Cambridge and Beeleigh... Also it would be nice to have videos of these model engines running under steam at the museums to show to the public .
Title: Re: Do you know this engine, Verticle Twin with rotary valves.
Post by: Jasonb on June 07, 2018, 02:50:00 PM
Maschinen im Modellau 06/2007 has an article about the engine by Lothar himself. If your German is upto it.
Title: Re: Do you know this engine, Verticle Twin with rotary valves.
Post by: Craig DeShong on June 07, 2018, 02:53:37 PM
Really neat design, if I ever build another steam engine I'll need to look into this further.
Title: Re: Do you know this engine, Verticle Twin with rotary valves.
Post by: b.lindsey on June 07, 2018, 03:01:53 PM
Paul Jacobs also did a write up of this engine in the Steam & Stirling Engines Book 2, still available from Village Press. Paul had apparently made patterns and castings for his build, but I have never seen castings available for it. Even though utilizing castings, the drawings in the above book look detailed enough to fabricate from.

Bill
Title: Re: Do you know this engine, Verticle Twin with rotary valves.
Post by: Jasonb on June 07, 2018, 03:18:19 PM
Paul Jacob's one has been drawn and uploaded to Grabcad so you can download all the parts into your favorite CAD program :) Open up OK in Alibre and F360 for me including the full assembly

https://grabcad.com/library/musgrave-ndc-1-1/details?folder_id=1248518
Title: Re: Do you know this engine, Verticle Twin with rotary valves.
Post by: Alyn Foundry on June 07, 2018, 03:23:11 PM
Hi All.

I may be able to help with the flywheel?

Picture of a " Victorian " era made pattern with individual cores to produce the square spoke.

It measures approximately 8 and 3/8" diameter and 7/8" deep.

Cheers Graham.
Title: Re: Do you know this engine, Verticle Twin with rotary valves.
Post by: Jasonb on June 07, 2018, 03:24:38 PM
Now that would make a NICE sized engine :)
Title: Re: Do you know this engine, Verticle Twin with rotary valves.
Post by: geoff5269 on June 07, 2018, 08:18:04 PM
Well that is a wonderful response, I thought someone would know and it seems many of you like the look of this one.
I have something to go on now.
Thanks Geoff
Title: Re: Do you know this engine, Verticle Twin with rotary valves.
Post by: Alyn Foundry on June 08, 2018, 02:38:08 PM
Now that would make a NICE sized engine :)

It did!!

    ;)
Title: Re: Do you know this engine, Verticle Twin with rotary valves.
Post by: Jasonb on June 08, 2018, 03:10:21 PM
Don't let Peter (Gasmantle) see that he will want one and I expect our resident Trolly Dolly will too.
Title: Re: Do you know this engine, Verticle Twin with rotary valves.
Post by: Alyn Foundry on June 08, 2018, 03:34:24 PM

It did!!

    ;)

Well....

That's the Alyn Number 1V, our only venture into the " Steam " market, in fact it's the only one in existence.

The engine was built from a set of Victorian/Edwardian patterns recovered from the Uppingham School workshops nearly 30 years ago.

All the wooden patterns have been converted into metal ones ( apart from the flywheel ) and I also have a horizontal base to make a 1H version.

Cheers Graham.
Title: Re: Do you know this engine, Verticle Twin with rotary valves.
Post by: crueby on June 08, 2018, 05:41:10 PM

It did!!

    ;)

Well....

That's the Alyn Number 1V, our only venture into the " Steam " market, in fact it's the only one in existence.

The engine was built from a set of Victorian/Edwardian patterns recovered from the Uppingham School workshops nearly 30 years ago.

All the wooden patterns have been converted into metal ones ( apart from the flywheel ) and I also have a horizontal base to make a 1H version.

Cheers Graham.
Wait, a casting Jo does not have?! :o
Title: Re: Do you know this engine, Verticle Twin with rotary valves.
Post by: Jo on June 08, 2018, 05:51:35 PM
Wait, a casting Jo does not have?! :o

Jo thought she had an extensive casting collection  :disappointed: It now transpires that since Surus moved into the casting cupboard he has decided that under English Law anything left behind by the previous owner becomes the possession of the new owner = he owns all the castings  :facepalm: and any new castings sets are also his  :pinkelephant:


Thursday night seem to have turned into a bit of a negotiation night  :ShakeHead: I would like to fondle some castings .... will he let me have the set I desire :noidea:

Jo
Title: Re: Do you know this engine, Verticle Twin with rotary valves.
Post by: Alyn Foundry on June 08, 2018, 06:06:19 PM

Wait, a casting Jo does not have?! :o

Several, in fact!!   :)