Model Engine Maker

Engines => From Kits/Castings => Topic started by: J.L. on February 24, 2018, 02:34:11 PM

Title: Textile Mill Diorama
Post by: J.L. on February 24, 2018, 02:34:11 PM
I have been searching for a suitable horizontal mill engine for my next diorama. I think I have found it, but am awaiting shipping information.

The diorama will represent the first floor of a mulit-storied textile mill with a little single storey woodworking shop attached at the back.

Three casting sets will be involved; the horizontal engine, a line shaft driven power saw and an old fashioned foot operated treadle lathe. So it will fit nicely into the kits/Castings catagory. The diorama, however,  will be designed and built from scratch.

Research has shown me that long ago, textile mills were very tall - up to seven stories high. Brick and timber were  the main construction materials. A good sized boiler was required to drive all the carding and weaving machinery. The vibration created by machinery became a structural problem, and later in the United States, the mills were lower, perhaps only three storeys high but spread out over a much larger area. Concrete and steel became the building materials of choice.

This diorama is a mixture of this transition. Many will find flaws in the historical accuracy of some of its parts, but the goal is to give the flavour of the use of steam at its zenith to power these mills.

So, we are off and running with a new project.  :)

John
Title: Re: Textile Mill Diorama
Post by: b.lindsey on February 24, 2018, 03:11:21 PM
Wonderful John. This already sounds like another great journey into the world of your excellent dioramas!!!  Looking forward to it eagerly   :whoohoo:

Bill
Title: Re: Textile Mill Diorama
Post by: mklotz on February 24, 2018, 03:18:52 PM
Sounds fantastic.  Will there be a model loom, presumably serviced by tiny 1/12 scale children?

I'm guessing the line-shaft driven saw and treadle lathe will be the PMR models?  I've built both and enjoyed making them.
Title: Re: Textile Mill Diorama
Post by: scc on February 24, 2018, 04:58:21 PM
Looking forward to this one :)               When we first moved to Lancashire my wife trained as a weaver.....the mills have all gone now :'(

Terry
Title: Re: Textile Mill Diorama
Post by: Jasonb on February 24, 2018, 05:04:32 PM
I hope your shipping costs aren't too high, it will be good to see a build of that seldom seen model.

Have you given up on the boiler as you did not mention that?
Title: Re: Textile Mill Diorama
Post by: J.L. on February 24, 2018, 09:22:25 PM
Hello Fellows,

Thanks for your early interest in the project.

Yes, Marv, those two aluminum casting kits are the last two I have not built from PMR. I just had to find a spot for them in this diorama. You know your history when you mention children. A quick Google search about child labour in the textile mills will reveal countless photos of very young children staring at the camera standing in groups in their bare feet!

Hi Jason,
Yes, I haven't heard anything about that enigne and the cost of shipping it in over a week. The site is down, so I can't order it online. Interesting you should mention a boiler. It will be the starting point for the entire project.  Thank you for identifying that stationary engine.

Terry, the boiler in the mill will be a Lancashire boiler!

Cheers...John


Title: Re: Textile Mill Diorama
Post by: Dave Otto on February 24, 2018, 10:17:28 PM
Hey John

Looking forward to following along with another one of your interesting projects.


Dave
Title: Re: Textile Mill Diorama
Post by: Larry Sw on February 25, 2018, 12:44:53 AM
So will you make some weaving machinery too with all the associated thread runs ?  :>)

Larry S
Title: Re: Textile Mill Diorama
Post by: b.lindsey on February 25, 2018, 01:14:45 AM
John, when I was a kid of maybe 9 or so, I was travelling with my dad once during the summer (he was in the mill supply business) and he thought I might like to see the inside of a textile mill which was one of his customers. Come to find out that in Georgia at least, the child labor laws which ended child labor in the mills was so strictly enforced that even visitors under the age of 18 were not allowed to set foot in any production area. Oddly enough, when I finished college and grad school, my first job was with the largest textile producer in the southeast. Though most of the mills had been modernized, there was one plant that still ran off of line shafts (though not driven by steam). As you noted, parts of the various mills I worked in were still of beam construction with hardwood floors with literally thousands of discarded ring travelers embedded into the hardwood. As the mills modernized the beams were replaced by steel and concrete. It was one of the most enjoyable parts of my early career. I was sad to see textiles leave the country, it was a fascinating industry with so much history to it.

Bill
Title: Re: Textile Mill Diorama
Post by: deltatango on February 25, 2018, 11:20:32 AM
Hi John,
I'm really looking forward to following your next diorama build.

While visiting the UK last year we went to Quarry Bank Mill near Manchester which is run by the National trust as a working museum. If you haven't been then it is well worth a visit. They even have the maintenance fitters' workshop set up with its own little steam engine, bolted to a ceiling beam to drive the line shafts to the machines. The mill was originally water powered only but a beam engine and horizontal engine were added later, the originals went for scrap but typical examples have been used as replacements.

I've attached a few pictures that may help with details, if you need full size ones, please say so and I'll send them on.

Regards, David
Title: Re: Textile Mill Diorama
Post by: J.L. on February 25, 2018, 11:27:59 AM
Hello David,

Thank you so much for including these wonderful pictures of the Quarry Bank Mill near Manchester. You have added much to the background and focus of the thread.

Cheers...John
Title: Re: Textile Mill Diorama
Post by: crueby on February 25, 2018, 03:26:57 PM
That ceiling mounted steam engine in the shop is quite interesting!
Title: Re: Textile Mill Diorama
Post by: wagnmkr on February 25, 2018, 03:32:17 PM
Although that ceiling mounted engine is hanging there, could it ne mounted on a wall as well? Would that have been known as a "wall" engine?

I see very little sleep for John in the future.

Cheers

Tom
Title: Re: Textile Mill Diorama
Post by: Gas_mantle on February 25, 2018, 06:48:56 PM
That ceiling mounted steam engine in the shop is quite interesting!

Stew Hart modelled that engine as part of his Potty series, it is on my to do list when I have a bit more experience.

FBEsz7imfh8t=216s


Title: Re: Textile Mill Diorama
Post by: crueby on February 25, 2018, 08:35:05 PM
That ceiling mounted steam engine in the shop is quite interesting!

Stew Hart modelled that engine as part of his Potty series, it is on my to do list when I have a bit more experience.

...
That is a brilliantly done model! Now I understand the angled section in the middle, in the original photo I thought the cylinders were angled, now I see its the valve chest. Thanks very much for the pointer on this one, need to go look up that build!
Anyway, back to John's thread!
 :popcorn:
Title: Re: Textile Mill Diorama
Post by: J.L. on February 25, 2018, 09:08:58 PM
I agree Chris. That is a wonderful model. A real treasure.

I am finding that foam board is a great material for starting a diorama from scratch. You can make all kinds of mistakes or design changes and start over again many times until you get something that you think will work.

For example, I thought the mill's boiler would be on the left side to the diorama near the engine's cylinder. That engine was not to be, so the boiler was simply removed and put on the other side. No harm, no foul.

Hopefully I can get the engine I want with its cylinder facing right.  :-\



Title: Re: Textile Mill Diorama
Post by: zeeprogrammer on February 25, 2018, 10:24:50 PM
 :pinkelephant: :popcorn: :popcorn: :popcorn:

Did I say I like dioramas?

And yours are exceptional.
Title: Re: Textile Mill Diorama
Post by: J.L. on February 26, 2018, 03:39:03 PM
Thank you.

In the first picture, we see the boiler now on the right side of the engine room. In many mills of this sort, a separate boiler house housed the boiler close to the mill. In this setup, the boiler room is attached, but a thick brick fire wall separates the boiler room from the engine room.

But notice the error on the left side of the model. There is a window there. That does not make any sense as we are modelling the southeast corner of the mill. The mill is much wider than what we are representing here. Why the window?

Here is another advantage of working through a prototype mock-up first. That window should be a door.  ::)  It would open out onto the mill floor which was probably planked (the engine room floor will be concrete).

So the second photo shows such a door instead of a window. 

Edit: Oops. Looking south, with the line shafts running over our heads back into the mill, we are looking at the southwest corner of the building. Right?

 
Title: Re: Textile Mill Diorama
Post by: Roger B on February 26, 2018, 08:00:04 PM
Another splendid build to follow along  :ThumbsUp:  :ThumbsUp: Your attention to detail is excellent  :praise2:
Title: Re: Textile Mill Diorama
Post by: crueby on February 26, 2018, 08:23:56 PM

.......

Edit: Oops. Looking south, with the line shafts running over our heads back into the mill, we are looking at the southwest corner of the building. Right?
uh oh, now you need to model the rest of the world to keep it all straight!

 :popcorn:
Title: Re: Textile Mill Diorama
Post by: J.L. on February 27, 2018, 10:26:14 AM
 ;D

The project begins in the boiler room. I wish to thank Jason Ballamy for his helpful information about the design and function of large industrial boilers. He taught me much about the Cornish (one flue) and Lancashire types (two flues). As we will see, their front faces were configured in many different ways. but they all shared the same basic element.

I am very glad I did not sell my General wood lathe last year. It beame invaluable in turning the boiler shell and diameters of very thin material.

A wooden core was first turned to give the boiler shape and allow plating to be bent over it. Only half  of the 'barrel' was laminated. The rest was counterbalanced with wooden blocks.

Here the drum is turned and a foot added to the end.


Title: Re: Textile Mill Diorama
Post by: Ramon on February 27, 2018, 10:36:50 AM
Hi JL - I do admire the way you mock your project up beforehand - indicates a great degree of patience and forethought  :ThumbsUp:

You also have an obvious flair for keeping your work clean, another admirable attribute.

I wish you well with this new adventure, if it turns out as well (and there's no doubt it will) as the previous two we have another enjoyable journey to witness :)

Regards - Ramon (Tug)
Title: Re: Textile Mill Diorama
Post by: J.L. on February 27, 2018, 02:16:14 PM
Thank you for the nice compliments gentemen. Hopefully the build will live up to your expectations!  :D

At first, I was prepared to purchase thin sheet metal and curve it over the drum to make the boiler shell. However, that would have required going to a sheet metal shop and having the fellows run the sheet through their hand rollers to achieve the correct diameter. Often, shops do not always appreciate walk-in one off jobs such as this. It takes them away from their tasks at hand. They are not willing to drop everything and give you their undivided attention. Understandable. I began looking for an alternative that I could do myself.

I found in a Lee Valley woodworking catalogue, 1/32"  Finnish 3-ply plywood, Hmm....

It bends very easily. I was also able to use the matierla later on as well for the face of the boiler.

Title: Re: Textile Mill Diorama
Post by: J.L. on February 28, 2018, 12:41:56 PM
To keep the 1/12 scale, #18 and #16 guage brass escutcheon pins were used to represent boiler rivets. The holes in the plywood were predrilled and the pins cut down to 1/4" in length.

My wife watched me set a few in the shop and jokingly said that I have too much time on my hands.  ;D  Well, as we both knew, having time on my hands is a good thing. I, going through a bit of a rough patch with health lately.

The modelling and this site is therapeutic.  ;)

John

Title: Re: Textile Mill Diorama
Post by: b.lindsey on February 28, 2018, 01:07:27 PM
John, is there going to be a "real boiler" for this diorama?  Is so, I can understand the need for a "stand in" for planning purposes (size, position, etc.), but why the detail down to the escutcheon pins if this is just for planning?

Bill
Title: Re: Textile Mill Diorama
Post by: J.L. on February 28, 2018, 02:08:38 PM
Hi Bill,

This will be a faux boiler Bill. It will have sight glasses, safety valve, steam stop valve, grates, fire doors, ash pits and a chimney. So it will be as close to the real thing in appearance only.

An air line will enter the boiler from below the chimney and turn up and out the top of the boiler shell at a steam stop valve. A tee will also be fitted inside the boiler shell to carry air to the steam whistle.

Had you scratching your head didn't I?  ;)
Title: Re: Textile Mill Diorama
Post by: b.lindsey on February 28, 2018, 02:48:33 PM
Yes you did John but that explains it !! Thanks.

Bill
Title: Re: Textile Mill Diorama
Post by: J.L. on March 01, 2018, 10:23:16 AM
There must be internal reinflorcing struts on the inside front of the boiler. Their fastening rivets are arranged in groups, which I discovered were angled like a clock face. I used to use clock face templates when turning clock dials. They are very useful for quickly determining angles around a circle.

One of them is shown here in photo one.

The second photo shows the boiler face with the rivet location lines marked.


Title: Re: Textile Mill Diorama
Post by: J.L. on March 01, 2018, 10:41:24 AM
Another handy device for working with circles is the hermaphrodite caliper.  A concentric circle can be marked around an existing hole with a drafting circle template (photo 1), but the caliper is easier to use and because the material is wood, it leaves a very nice little scratch line. Unlike attempting to centre holes along a pencil line with a awl as would be the case with the circle template, the groove created by the caliper's sharp tip allows the tip of the awl to set itself in the groove giving a nice concentric row of holes.
Title: Re: Textile Mill Diorama
Post by: crueby on March 01, 2018, 01:18:31 PM
Interesting pattern of struts in that boiler - they had to put braces on flat end caps to keep the steam pressure from bowing them out. A boiler like yours is quite large, with the multiple chambers, would have been an interesting one to see the inside of.

 :popcorn:
Title: Re: Textile Mill Diorama
Post by: J.L. on March 01, 2018, 02:14:53 PM
Hi Chris,
You are right. There are some very intereting diagrams on the internet showing the inner workings of these large boilers. Apparently the brick chambers around the shell were just as important as the flue itself. Hot gases circled back around the flue via brick passages - returned again and went back and out the chimney.

There were also manholes in the shell of the boilers, but to my eye, they seem bolted on the shell. I would think they could blow out. I was under the impression that all openings had a gasketed flange inside the shell of the boiler. Pressure would actually increase the integrety of the opening and prevent the door from blowing out.

That's the way the 'mud hole' at the bottom of the boiler face will be attached.

You were kidding when you talked about a diorama for your steam shovel. Actually, I can see a two sided one in my mind; back, left side and ground.

Cheers...John
Title: Re: Textile Mill Diorama
Post by: Ramon on March 01, 2018, 04:56:27 PM
Hello John,

Usually the smaller inlets had 'reverse' covers pulled up from the inside by a threaded stud though a bar set across the outside. As per the mud hole you mention.  Manholes on the other hand usually had a riveted flange and up stand with the cover bolted on another flange - much the same as the flange on the stop valve.

I guess you may have found this but if not this shows it well.

(https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/f/f9/Lancashire_boiler%2C_fittings_%28Rankin_Kennedy%2C_Modern_Engines%2C_Vol_VI%29.jpg)

As a young apprentice welder on a ship yard it was not long before the delights of working inside boilers was experienced. My first time was to crawl in through that mud hole and hold the door up carefully while it was bolted up. An eerie experience for a 15 year old, the only light provided by an acetylene lamp. The door had been leaking so a thin round section lead 'seal' was stuck to it with thick grease. Pulling it up tight showed the low spots which were then built up by welding and faced back level.

You've made a super start - looking forwards to more

Tug
Title: Re: Textile Mill Diorama
Post by: crueby on March 01, 2018, 05:42:54 PM
Hi Tug, great drawing, where did you find it?
Title: Re: Textile Mill Diorama
Post by: kvom on March 01, 2018, 09:36:07 PM
Probably a lot here that don't know what an acetylene lamp is.  I  do only because in the army we used the soot from one as sign blackener.
Title: Re: Textile Mill Diorama
Post by: J.L. on March 02, 2018, 11:32:07 AM
Thanks for that wonderful diagram Tug.

And thanks for sharing your experience. I can remember when I had a summer job at Quaker Oats,being lowered down into a grain tank in a sling with a winch to clean in the tanks inside walls, but that was nothing to what you experienced.

Very appropriate. Some of the top fittings are more elaborate than what I will be able to model.
Cheers...John
Title: Re: Textile Mill Diorama
Post by: J.L. on March 02, 2018, 03:11:54 PM
Turning the flues for the boiler took me back to days on the wood lathe.

Edit: I guess I should be calling these fire tubes. The flues are the brick passages around the outside shell of the boiler.


Title: Re: Textile Mill Diorama
Post by: 10KPete on March 02, 2018, 08:42:40 PM
Those "braces" are called stays and their design is very carefully done...

This build is just great!!

 :ThumbsUp: :popcorn: :ThumbsUp:

Pete
Title: Re: Textile Mill Diorama
Post by: Ramon on March 03, 2018, 10:59:39 AM
Hello John, glad that was of use to you - Chris, it came from Wikipedia but there are several other sources.

Looking at that drawing John, if you follow that rivet pattern you're going to end up putting as many rivets in, if not more, than I did in my launch  :o

Looking forwards to your further progress

Regards - Tug
Title: Re: Textile Mill Diorama
Post by: J.L. on March 03, 2018, 11:34:00 AM
Thanks Pete.

Tug, I appreciate your input. I simplified the layers of steel around the shell (cutting down the number of rivets required as you pointed out) and will be modifying other aspects of the boiler as well.  Boy, you guys really know your boilers. I'm nervous about modelling anything more with my little knowldege of many of the parts.

There are so many variations to the fittings on top of the boilers, I will have to just pick and chooose which ones to model. I like that man hole cover with the large surrounding plate. I also like the challenge of making a safety valve with a counterbalancing weight on the end of its arm.

Here are the fire tube grates and mud hole cover in ply; the furnace doors  and rotary dampers in plastic with brass operating hinges. The handles are made from aluminum wire. I have true luxury of using various materials as this is a faux boiler.



Title: Re: Textile Mill Diorama
Post by: b.lindsey on March 03, 2018, 01:42:16 PM
Definitely a bit OT but when I saw the thumbnail of the first picture above, my first thought was ~ wow, John has gone to making alien faces now~  :Lol:  If it were a bit more oval it would be perfect what with the big eyes, small mouth etc.  On closer look though its a very nice boiler face!! Nicely done as always.

Bill
Title: Re: Textile Mill Diorama
Post by: wagnmkr on March 04, 2018, 12:31:10 PM
John V and I thoroughly enjoyed our visit yesterday John. This will certainly be another work of art, and I look forward to seeing it as it gets further along.

Cheers

Tom

Title: Re: Textile Mill Diorama
Post by: J.L. on March 05, 2018, 02:11:42 PM
Yes Tom, a great visit.

Hi Bill,

When my wife first saw a photo of the boiler's face it kind of creeped her out.

Here is the progress made so far on its face;

Title: Re: Textile Mill Diorama
Post by: J.L. on March 05, 2018, 02:36:46 PM
There is so much history associated with the development and use of boilers during the Industrial Revolution. I'm sure there were many mishaps and even boiler explosions as the various designs of safety equipment advanced.

What an interesting discussion could be had with these men...

(photo in public domain)
Title: Re: Textile Mill Diorama
Post by: b.lindsey on March 05, 2018, 06:46:50 PM
The boiler details are really beginning to pop now John. Tha black paint makes it look as if it had been in service for ages....very realistic.

Bill
Title: Re: Textile Mill Diorama
Post by: J.L. on March 06, 2018, 01:57:03 PM
Hi Bill,
I agree. The Fusion Mineral Paint I'm using is a high end paint that is used often in furniture restoration where old antiquies can be brought back to life with an overcoat of this paint that will stick to anything. The colour is coal black.

It seemed a shame to spend a lot of money on a functioning brass steam dial pressure gauge on a boiler does not function. So I am attempting to make my own.

Here we see the plastic window cut from the sheet on the lathe as I described earlier. Many free printable dials are available on the internet. It was simply a case of printing one out and reducing it in the printer until its diameter was correct.

Title: Re: Textile Mill Diorama
Post by: b.lindsey on March 06, 2018, 03:07:54 PM
Very clever John. Good choice on the dial too I think. Looking forward to seeing the finished gage.

Bill
Title: Re: Textile Mill Diorama
Post by: derekwarner on March 06, 2018, 09:20:44 PM
JL......it had me tossed as to who had made such substantial boilers ........so from the boiler faceplates we see ......xx Haden & Sons - England - Trowbridge

www.gracesguide.co.uk/1922_Who%27s_Who_In_Engineering:_Company_H

you can search  :happyreader: A-Z or any attributes...'containing'

So how about GN Haden & Sons...later listed as heating & cooling engineers

Derek
Title: Re: Textile Mill Diorama
Post by: J.L. on March 06, 2018, 10:22:15 PM
Interesting information Derek.

The steam gauge is made. Now for its valve and flange...

Needless to say, there will be comments about the needle pointer in the gauge.  :o

I went back to the original photo of the dial and the pointer is indeed there - the black paint has come off of it. So it was lost in its severe reuction in sizing in the printer.
Title: Re: Textile Mill Diorama
Post by: b.lindsey on March 06, 2018, 10:41:18 PM
Fantastic John.!!!

Bill
Title: Re: Textile Mill Diorama
Post by: J.L. on March 07, 2018, 06:44:57 PM
Thanks Bill,
Here is the gauge with its fittings.
Notice the steel nuts (0-80). They are not acceptable. They will be replaced with brass nuts to compliment the device when it is mounted on the face of the boiler.
Title: Studs and Flanges
Post by: J.L. on March 07, 2018, 06:51:36 PM
This photo is interesting in that the location of the parts on the face of the boiler correspond exacty with the diagram Tug posted on page 3.


Title: Re: Textile Mill Diorama
Post by: ddmckee54 on March 07, 2018, 08:51:23 PM
John:

Been away for a couple of weeks and just started reading this thread.  Back in Reply #34 you mentioned working a summer job at Quaker Oats cleaning grain bins, where?  I'm curious because I've done engineering work at the Cedar Rapids Quaker Oats plant, and others, for the first 17 of the last 28 years - been contracted to the Cedar Rapids plant full time for the last 11-ish years.

Small world,
Don
Title: Re: Textile Mill Diorama
Post by: J.L. on March 07, 2018, 11:19:11 PM
Hi Don,

Small world indeed. My dad was a Quaker salesman for 35 years in the cereal, grain and pet food divisions.

I live in Peterborough,Ontario. The plant here is known around the world for the horrific 1916 plant explosion.

Cheers...John
Title: Re: Textile Mill Diorama
Post by: ddmckee54 on March 08, 2018, 04:01:42 PM
Never been to the Peterborough plant, but I know a lot of people that have.  Fires must have been a fairly common occurrence in the early grain plants, ours burned to the ground in 1905.  Since the plant is/was located next to downtown Cedar Rapids it almost took the downtown with it when it burned.

Don
Title: Re: Textile Mill Diorama
Post by: J.L. on March 08, 2018, 08:56:57 PM
Each fixture on the top of the boiler shell has to have a concave radius so it will sit down tightly to form a nice seal. This must be a frustrating exercise for fellows building real boilers. Determining and making the concave arc of that flange could be tricky.

But because I'm building these fixtures from the ground up with materials of my choosing, it's easy to get that collar ring to bend itself to the shell. I had my wife hold the circle you see in the first photo on both sides to prevent springback while I drilled holes for the escutcheon pins. Because there was a spine of wood under the top of the shell, drilling a bit short allowed the ends of the nails to bite and hold the ring in position.

The maple turning represents a casting with two flanges joined. When sanded, bolted and painted they will look like the real thing. An X-acto knife was used to simulate the separation between the flanges.

Title: Re: Textile Mill Diorama
Post by: b.lindsey on March 09, 2018, 12:17:39 AM
Nice solution John. These materials do offer a lot more flexibility thought without sacrificing the aesthetics at all. Still following along.

Bill
Title: Re: Textile Mill Diorama
Post by: J.L. on March 12, 2018, 12:58:46 PM
Thanks Bill.
Good to have you aboard.
I am being rather modest with the number of rivets I am using to represent the boiler plates being fastened around seams and openings as you can see from the first photo.
The manhole is the largest opening, so I felt that it deserved a special plate.
Title: Re: Textile Mill Diorama
Post by: J.L. on March 13, 2018, 01:12:57 PM
Here are the four fixtures that fit atop the boiler in various stages of completion. I am waiting for a package from American Model Engineering Supply with the # 0-80 bolts to bolt the flanges together.

These four fixtures are of my design and merely represent the actual valves and covers I have seen in diagrams and photographs. They have been simplified for ease of modelling.

In other words, they represent something close to actual boiler fittings.  ::)
Title: Re: Textile Mill Diorama
Post by: Ramon on March 13, 2018, 01:54:36 PM
Hello John

Glad to see the pic was of use and real nice to see more progress and some excellent 'representation' based on it -  I can see this will look most convincing once finished.  :ThumbsUp:

I don't know if it's a bit late but these three pics may be of further use to you. They are of the boilers at the Papplewick Pumping Station at Nottingham in the UK.

(https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/O412dfLKiNO_V0VrdEyeUlHbxBbw22ivDXyhOKBkxk-rZvrKVH65EdKTmB1-X2vfnlTHWJvzTZR9L1yfMDwy8cxxSX9EaYrJWIRaJBgepNGFCtRrtjfdfRfjq8yhKRdVHSI7nEwbjVetp__L28_OJLnrFTz1jS-C6_r6WYCHBm2D9CSiHlNmgCysGmYOZdKrqsXpm-Ql2DE-h8BR5J1uXbW539VoVwEQT67jdDI_0Q4GZFHgl7vRb3geYroc_e7ADOOuo0knD_eWFpkcpnh4oQXiDn5nlASby-XSLmcYW8t0HuHrHR-Jmi1DMF8JG2r-9LTRQ7o4isvbKl0VKaJYEsXDsg8yguyZL4mms4tLyxWA5UI-oXJ9FgsngSqn3dz_qePj0z6WV5ositAplgPs7NercqiioWMuSil7IeazmdknCoobI8Buk4KnlLQ-UInwldKWxaeP_tW6fq7sC1nmIn4c5dVZ3cbbh1rsWgBVaQUSkzhxw9tro7ZQnghAMRLODZMGY-ZFQiI-kRj__8rGlpo4jnxZi2hYg5JFyFYrmxwOJvXqIySv6XiWgbk8sv_J99S5V76ikCHh_HdT1vwtZ-YoUky3DDycxXmrqdQJ=w1224-h918-no)


I cant remember whether there were five or six of them. I believe in original use one was being maintained with another standing by ready as a reserve and the remainder in steam with the gases being funnelled to a remote chimney some distance away

(https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/yPmV8l7q4hSjDjxfr72CissXtRD0v9Yj6ZogepKGTj_TwcJxldEddG7eaJo_s87bnvFXdpZifquNws4Vrcv2ZyW7g6dMx7Wz5u8nCHt6z-ITm0mvMvhbK7uyr_UiOw0ZQSesWp_2EcJbg3OKc2yfjBJvy3h4xoFODO6oJ5p1zzbsrRvt2n6AfQoLWf78GJ9WxmNc-18vmMXVIt4CJRNvrSBKAVVe7e0vY8k3kFM9g9hHWw7PKN69ry9OpuA8a3LEAXPOjw0Sd5TyqVTn3Xi6SHZwXFghl-D-VCOXnpEPOEroTBCmjVjQ9v8I2WvJ_xV16lfDP5NqB_eHsdYSGkCMsDeO_wlvPuW8eOw1VDE8s_jNJC2sFeB4yrOBCUKROYwTTKH3CTQGFvLOHvKtk7Un9fb1cfTrWF50bpQF8U3DXnadLIWkLma8coKk-dVSb0fRYr6vhC_MKU2pHoKz376nKhrY21f0muIbEmhWVh-woz7PFyx-mUEzqtjf3EhNQDwNGklvPKjBKt6FQEvT8cuN9uXULGIhq8-N81rge4JOrlJ5I3BM_HPVglviLp2bzvhqK2F9cRi97skP32b3RkLTZl651udu6KAMDbQpqZFy=w1224-h918-no)

This is a shot across the tops of the boilers the lagged steam pipes going through the wall to the engine room. Note the 'mud hole' type door in the end of the cross pipe.

(https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/C6CLlhe6lIgXfA1WtWGUJpl4wt-p3Rl78SzyBdYRW6oATzAy-6rIqGPNdnxaCYNMAzFoiGWT4WHtgM_g2Eu94OMkTPkl2NBMvwW3H2Kr3LFOGJqR8OjS7Clj5k07k9npk-xm-tNOJNpui8PdXoNEMjd9Nl80Xam9LZIKnifOdfCCiQNcDgSb89Dqh5o4RFH6t-lz_ML6P3h_tbmf4MpZ6UHe24Pe2kvhezaOdq6iRqhSfMHUml4UDwtL33TlfLf5pvN94RlvS2FWhvpP_Re8gVArqn0mGpY2C1F5Rve413zlJVSS0Z_OZzQhxPeu9OgMzSiqNzp1c_810biS3Z_caLhqawdsQJSUWOQM3hQYNgBmrDCu0Y_QTHQyoK2icjo29gTGLAtCuUt0vtg7VP2o00WAKfpqVlkkK3BQVh4gJgaAMIiRGyIQL_qeCJfbE5KVBAUL0GpLMbKJe1sBY_zEJx3-CTQ1l6pmV75SmK0vjrgRVo_F8HRjb_378XOuXeWHcQlqf4gokRjmqCO5WPry9l6MZwIogCNiNIjb_-cuT99wIeDx7hFHo8LCEm-C0sxrhUKVmm-UFYYql92atLkDIIj4CzSPFYBOF1EUJXJj=w1224-h918-no)

Hope they are of use to you - keep up the good work

Regards - Tug
Title: Re: Textile Mill Diorama
Post by: J.L. on March 15, 2018, 03:14:10 PM
Wonderful pictures Tug. Thanks for sharing.  :ThumbsUp:

Were these taken by you?

The #0-80 bolts arrived.  Thye do add a realistic look to the faux flanges.

Here is the first fixture - the manhole and cover located near the back of the boiler.

Note: This boiler has been truncated to fit the overall dimensions of the diorama. In real life, I believe they were much longer.
Title: Re: Textile Mill Diorama
Post by: Jasonb on March 15, 2018, 03:50:22 PM
John just  a thought on the bolts/nut, from my plastic modeling days you could buy a punch and die set that could be used to make hexagonal shapes from plasticard. This option may work out cheaper and quicker for you if you can get them in the right sizes as they are more for smaller scale AFV work.

This sort of thing https://peterhamann.com/2014/03/01/rp-toolz-hexagonal-punch-and-die-set/
Title: Re: Textile Mill Diorama
Post by: J.L. on March 15, 2018, 05:33:16 PM
Hi Jason,
That is a very good suggestion for representational hex nuts and bolts if they are to be painted, which I have done with the steel ones. Thanks link to that link.

Here are the brass hex nuts in #0-80 that will be used to fasten the brass flanges on the site valves and the pressure guage.

I have begun to make the cradle for the boiler. It will be bricked on its face and along the sides of the shell. From the pictures I've seen, they liked to paint the bricks around the face of the boiler white.

Title: Re: Textile Mill Diorama
Post by: wagnmkr on March 15, 2018, 06:13:23 PM
Looking Good John!

Tom
Title: Re: Textile Mill Diorama
Post by: Jasonb on March 15, 2018, 06:31:36 PM
They may also have used glazed bricks at lower levels though teh gloss can look a bit out of scale on a small model.
Title: Re: Textile Mill Diorama
Post by: J.L. on March 16, 2018, 02:11:36 PM
Good point Jason.

These progress shotss with the bricks show what appears to be rather rough work. The handmade bricks are not exactly all the same thickness. They also have to be applied stacked rather than simply glued face-on like slip bricks. So you will see a little strip of separating white card lying on top of the bricks on the right side of the boiler.

So, to clean things up, I will be using a course large wood file to smooth all the bricks to a uniform face width. It's a luxury with these thick bricks.

Once grouted, I think things will improve dramatically.

Title: Re: Textile Mill Diorama
Post by: b.lindsey on March 16, 2018, 02:44:26 PM
Even as a faux boiler it looks very authentic John, probably even moreso that if it were a real boiler since you can take a few more liberties with materials, etc.  It's really coming together !!!

Bill
Title: Re: Textile Mill Diorama
Post by: J.L. on March 16, 2018, 06:58:51 PM
Thanks Bill.

The front face bricks have now been dressed and are ready for grout.  But first, the rows of bricks along each side of the boiler have to be put in place.
Title: Re: Textile Mill Diorama
Post by: Ramon on March 16, 2018, 10:53:56 PM
My word John that's a tidy bit of work in such a short time - you must be well pleased with that result  :ThumbsUp:

Glad those pics were useful - yes they were taken year before last - that's Sue studying the finer points of gauge glasses  :D

Following along with great interest in seeing how you approach things

Regards - Tug
Title: Re: Textile Mill Diorama
Post by: Steamer5 on March 17, 2018, 06:58:54 AM
Hi John,
 Missed the start of this thread, I was swanning around at the beach!

Just caught up & as usual coming along very nicely! Was going to post up the Tower Bridge boiler pick taken a few years back, but Tugs one are very similar.

Cheers Kerrin
Title: Re: Textile Mill Diorama
Post by: J.L. on March 18, 2018, 05:43:00 PM
Thanks Kerrin. And thanks for the thought of posting a picture of the Tower Bridge Boiler. Tug also posted diagrams of a Lancashire boiler front and side views earlier that have been invaluable in designing the fittings.

Two dampers at the back of the boiler controlled air flow in the brick flues.  Cutting the slots was just a lucky happenstance. There was enough open space between the supports below!

Note: That hole is the hole for the air line into the boiler.


Title: Re: Textile Mill Diorama
Post by: b.lindsey on March 18, 2018, 07:45:08 PM
The brick work is coming along nicely John!!

Bill
Title: Flanges vs. Threads
Post by: J.L. on March 18, 2018, 08:12:31 PM
Thanks Bill,

I'm rather jumping around a bit here, but wanted to addresss the steam valve issue on top of the boiler. Steam pipes almost always were joined together with flanges and bolts. However, modern scale model valves, elbows, and tees are most often threaded. Such is the case with PMR cast fittings.

I probably will break down and use the threaded fittings, but while still in the boiler room, I wanted to replicate the use of flanges. So these photos show a faux flange being fitted to a threaded stop valve. I could have turned off the hex portion to make the flange smaller, but decided to recess it in the flange.

Too bad metal model elbows and tees are not cast with flanges. It would make the steam models far more historically correct. There are plastic tees and elbows available in smaller scales (i.e. HO), but they can only be used for small model display work.

 
Title: Re: Textile Mill Diorama
Post by: J.L. on March 18, 2018, 08:43:44 PM
The modified valve...
Title: Top Boiler Fittings
Post by: J.L. on March 18, 2018, 09:38:21 PM
Here are the fittings on top of the boiler.

The Junction Valve or Steam Valve is removable at this point. It will be internally hooked up to an air line when the diorama walls go up.

Title: Re: Textile Mill Diorama
Post by: wagnmkr on March 18, 2018, 09:46:13 PM
That is looking pretty nice to me John. Those bricks look good as well.

Tom
Title: Re: Textile Mill Diorama
Post by: J.L. on March 20, 2018, 05:18:30 PM
Thanks Tom. Notice the 'bread loaf' curve on the top of the bricks.  ;)  I laughed when you told me that some fellows run a piece of sandpaper or a file across the top of the mold before removing them. Very diplomatic way of telling me what would I should have done. :)

The water gauges are next. I will be using clear acrylic 3/16" OD tubing for the sight glasses. I've never been good with cutting glass.

They have valves at top and bottom. Here are a series of photos shows making them. Rather than thread them, I made a jig and just rounded the rod with a file until a #0-80 brass nut would slide over.

I'm very lucky that the handle levers did not break off when tapped 85 degrees cold with the tack hammer.
 
Title: Bolton No. 7 Mill Engine
Post by: J.L. on March 21, 2018, 09:12:27 PM
I thought it would be wise to assure everyone that there is a horizontal mill engine in the works for this diorama. A lot of time has been spent in the boiler room, but once we get past the fire wall, things should start happening with the castings.

On March 5, a Bolton No. 7 horizontal mill engine with a bore of 1 1/2" and a stroke of 2" was ordered from Bolton Scale Models, in Bathurst, NSW Australia. On March 14 the package was delivered to my door.

That hunk of cast iron in the back of the second shot looks rather intimidating, especially when you consider that I have been drilling holes with a magnifying loupe for # 0-80 bolts and nailing countless 18 gauge escutcheon pins in place for over two weeks now.

The kit is excellent. It was supplied with 41 pages of construction notes written by  Ernest Winter in 1992.

The original drawings were made by O.B. Bolton in 1946! They are larger than full size.


Title: Re: Textile Mill Diorama
Post by: deltatango on March 21, 2018, 09:40:07 PM
Hi John, I'm glad that the package got to you so quickly and looking forward to following the rest of the build.

Can you show us the rest of the castings in that package?

DT
Title: Re: Textile Mill Diorama
Post by: b.lindsey on March 21, 2018, 11:33:03 PM
Looks like some cast iron machining is in your future John. Will be fun to follow.

Bill
Title: Re: Textile Mill Diorama
Post by: J.L. on March 22, 2018, 11:21:41 AM
Hi David,
Here are some of the castings in gunmetal and cast iron.

Hi Bill,
Well, I don't intend to machine all of these castings. In the second photo, I'm holding a bearing block that to me, would be far better made from scratch with clean, crisp bar stock. I can see why some guys would rather do this than try to coax a lump of metal into shape.

The third photo also is a mystery if you are into realistic dioramas. I've never seen a connecting rod made out of soft gunmetal. It would be fine if this engine were intended for display with gleaming brass and bronze, but a hardworking mill engine in a textile mill would have steel (or cast iron in the earlier days) driving its piston.
Title: Re: Textile Mill Diorama
Post by: J.L. on March 22, 2018, 12:02:29 PM
At first, I didn't think I would be able to make handles for the cock valves at the bottom of the water gauges. But then I thought of taking 1/6" brass rod and hammering its end against the anvil of the bench vice. Voila! It mushed outward at the end as it was being struck by the ball peen hammer.

An instant handle! Once bent at 90 degrees, it fit into a cross drilled hole through a 1/8" collar.

All the gauges need now are sight glasses. The acrylic tubing is coming from California.

 I just love it when local hobby suppliers are unable to get small items.

 "Oh no, You'll have to get that on the internet..."
Title: Re: Textile Mill Diorama
Post by: crueby on March 22, 2018, 01:24:08 PM
Looks good! Sometimes a hammer is just the right precision tool.  If you need to get it thinner than it wants to go after a few blows, heat it red and cool it, that will aneal the brass again and let it form more without cracking.


 :popcorn:
Title: Re: Textile Mill Diorama
Post by: b.lindsey on March 22, 2018, 01:50:27 PM
Nice looking castings John. I like how the parting (cut) lines are cast into the eccentric straps and bearing stands as a guide. Wish more casting sets had this feature.

Bill
Title: Re: Textile Mill Diorama
Post by: J.L. on March 22, 2018, 02:50:29 PM
Thanks Chris. You gave a great tip about heating the brass and allowing it to cool. As I said, I was lucky bending the larger levers cold without them cracking.

Yes Bill, the parting lines give a nice reference.

While we are on the topic of castings, I must state here before I beginn to build the engine, that I will not be able to do the heavy bull work on it. I have already sent the flywheel out to be machined.  My health has dictated that I step back a bit now. I enjoy the small stuff and will be able to machine some of the simpler parts.

Being able to go downstaris to the shop is still enjoyable.  I want it to stay that way.

John
Title: Re: Textile Mill Diorama
Post by: b.lindsey on March 22, 2018, 02:54:29 PM
I totally agree John....do what you enjoy and farm out the rest. When it ceases to be fun it's time to find a new hobby!!

Bill
Title: Re: Textile Mill Diorama
Post by: J.L. on March 22, 2018, 03:22:32 PM
Kind words Bill. Thanks.

So now the diorama layout begins. That protoype in the background has been great in getting an overall picture of where we are going.

This engine is larger than antiipated with other model possibilities at the time, so upscaling a bit is easy to do.

March 22, 2018

John
Title: Re: Textile Mill Diorama
Post by: Jasonb on March 22, 2018, 03:32:57 PM
It's good to see some more of the castings John and now I won't have to keep quiet and worry about letting the cat out of the bag having been in on the chosen engine since I identified it for you a while back.

Actually that bearing looks quite good and don't be put off by what looks like an oval boss, by the time it has been cut through and machined back that will look round. As for GM conrods like you I would prefer them not to be included in the kit as I don't like to pay for things I too would not use.
Title: Re: Textile Mill Diorama
Post by: J.L. on March 22, 2018, 06:23:30 PM
Thank you for holding back on the engine chosen for the diorama Jason!

It would not have happened without your keen eye and instant identification.

Today, the acrylic 3/16" clear tubing arrived!

A piece of 3/32" brass rod was used to prevent it from being crushed in the vice while cutting it to length.


Title: Re: Textile Mill Diorama
Post by: Ramon on March 22, 2018, 06:34:37 PM
Nice work John and very convincing  :ThumbsUp:

Keep it coming  ;)

Tug
Title: Re: Textile Mill Diorama
Post by: ddmckee54 on March 22, 2018, 07:22:38 PM
I obviously have to get help.  Every time I see that boiler I flash back to the movie "Cannery Row" with Nick Nolte and Debra Winger, and her living in the fire box that boiler.

Setting aside my mental issues, that's still a nice looking fake boiler shell.

Don
Title: Re: Textile Mill Diorama
Post by: J.L. on March 22, 2018, 07:35:22 PM
Thanks Don.  I'm going to have to look that movie up.

Chris, you are a life saver. Half an hour ago, I heated up a 3/32" piece of brass red hot and let it cool. Sure enough, it bent like butter. I was able to get a 1/8" radius on it.  :o

You see the brass rod with the beginnings of a tee joining the two water gauges.
Title: Re: Textile Mill Diorama
Post by: crueby on March 22, 2018, 09:10:10 PM
Thanks Don.  I'm going to have to look that movie up.

Chris, you are a life saver. Half an hour ago, I heated up a 3/32" piece of brass red hot and let it cool. Sure enough, it bent like butter. I was able to get a 1/8" radius on it.  :o

You see the brass rod with the beginnings of a tee joining the two water gauges.
Glad it worked so well!

Brass and copper work harden very quickly, heating will re-anneal it back to the soft state - does not matter if you let it air cool or quench it, does the same, unlike steel alloys.

Another trick with brass - if you cut some bar stock down the middle, it will tend to go to a banana shape since the rolling process they make it with introduces stresses into the metal on the outside. If you first bake it at 500F for an hour in the oven (degrease it first or you get yelled at!) and let it cool, it takes out those stresses and makes the cut parts stay straight, without changing the hardness of the brass. Only works on brass, steels all have very different teperatures.
Title: Bending Brass
Post by: J.L. on March 22, 2018, 09:23:17 PM
Thank you Chris. Another valuable piece of information for the back pocket.

Here's another example of how well your heating works on brass. In this photo, I'm holding a rod of brass that was heated in the vice. When it became red, it started to bend under its own weight - a very nice sweet curve. When cool, I flipped it over and heated the next portion red and again it began to curve.

Here's the result.I had to tweak it very little to clear the mud hole.

It can not be put in place at this time. There will be a sump pit in front of the boiler later on. This 'pipe' will drain down into it.

Thanks again Chris.

John
Title: The Case of the Missing Rivet
Post by: J.L. on March 23, 2018, 03:22:46 PM
Adam's sharp eye caught a missing rivet surrounding the left fire tube. When he informed me of the omission, I stated that when the boiler was complete, a rivet with his name on it would be posted.

Title: Adam's Rivet
Post by: J.L. on March 23, 2018, 03:24:09 PM
Adam's Rivet:
Title: Re: Textile Mill Diorama
Post by: mklotz on March 23, 2018, 03:30:51 PM
I've heard "rivet counters" referred to in less than complimentary terms, but I didn't realize that they actually existed.
Title: Re: Textile Mill Diorama
Post by: Dan Rowe on March 23, 2018, 03:55:29 PM
Marv, no rivet counting occurred only close observation. If you look at the photo in post #90 there is a center mark for the missing rivet showing that rivets are set out by the pitch spacing not counting.

Nice work John I have been reading along with interest.

Dan
Title: Re: Textile Mill Diorama
Post by: Adam G on March 23, 2018, 04:33:55 PM
 :embarassed: :embarassed: :embarassed:
Title: Re: Textile Mill Diorama
Post by: J.L. on March 23, 2018, 07:54:37 PM
Hi Adam,
Good on you for finding that missing rivet.  :ThumbsUp:

I appreciate your input very much. You have kept me on the straight and narrow many times with great observations and suggestions.

I'm tempted to keep this rivet gold coloured...maybe.

I've mentioned this source of thin steel before, but here it is again. Hanging file folders have steel strips glued into the folder. Some are flat and some have a stamped reinforcement along their length.

I'm using them here to create the rails or stringers of a steel ladder.
Title: Re: Textile Mill Diorama
Post by: J.L. on March 24, 2018, 06:36:59 PM
Now the firemen can get up there...

Title: The Pedestal
Post by: J.L. on March 24, 2018, 09:24:21 PM
Now that I have the cast bed of the engine, I can model its concrete base.

As it stands now, the concrete base is one foot high and the bed of the engine is one foot high. A notch will have to be cut into the base for the flywheel and its pit. Im also not sure about the location of the step-downs or the amount of space necessary to move around the bed of the engine. The valve chest comes off the side of the cylinder, so maybe there should be more room on one side of the bed than the other.

Easy to muck about with design at this stage with foam board.

Title: Re: Textile Mill Diorama
Post by: b.lindsey on March 24, 2018, 10:13:58 PM
Sure will save you a lot of time later John, and errors as well....looking good so far though.

Bill
Title: Re: Textile Mill Diorama
Post by: J.L. on March 25, 2018, 02:44:57 PM
Hi Bill.  You are right. Now is the time to get proportions right.

I think layout planning is my favourite aspect of this model engine hobby. The engine is, for me, often just the icing on the cake. That's probably why I stress that the making some of the more difficult parts of the engine are farmed out.

Also, my health of late has not been great. One day at a time.

The plans drawn by O. B.Bolton were far beyond full size. I used my printer to reduce them until the flywheel measured 7". That put the image reduction to 75% . They were too large to fit on the platen, so they were sequentially copied and taped together by putting them on a window where the light would line up the segements.

A lot of extras have to be considered in the layout. A door is lying on the floor of the diorama in one photo. Its swing has to be taken into consideration when locating the engine platform.  The width of the fire door as to be considered when determining the depth of the engine room floor. And so on.

The last photo shows the boiler sitting next to its mock-up.
 
Title: Re: Textile Mill Diorama
Post by: Kim on March 25, 2018, 03:17:35 PM
Quietly following along with your diorama build, John.  I really enjoy watching you work!

That engine is a lot bigger than I thought!  Seeing your hand next to the 1:1 drawing gave me some scale.  That's going to be a pretty heavy engine!

Kim
Title: Re: Textile Mill Diorama
Post by: J.L. on March 25, 2018, 06:14:19 PM
Hi Kim,

Thank you. Yes, this is a large, heavy engine. It is rated at 3/4 HP with a bore of 1 1/2". The cylinder is huge. Apparently, it can be used to do real work.

The base is 3" wide by 14 5/8" long. Quite a hunk of cast iron. There is no governor on this engine.

I thought the piiping to the engine would be 1/4" OD. No so. It's 5/16". So I will have to buy new MTP pipe taps and dies.

I'm finally getting a handle on the size of the diorama floor. It will be approximately 24" wide x 34" long.

Cheers...John
Title: Diorama Floor
Post by: J.L. on March 25, 2018, 10:03:01 PM
The edges of the floor have been thickened and strengthened with oak veneered particleboard. They have been glued and screwed with Lo-Root wood screws that have the new Recex drive heads. They are a combination of Robertson and Phillips heads. I like them.

The Lo-Root screws are suitable for particleboard and MDF. I still don't trust them from spreading MDF so I drill pilot holes.
Title: Dťjŗ Vu
Post by: J.L. on March 28, 2018, 02:43:47 PM
When I took a look at the bare walls of this new diorama, my mind went back to setting the stage for the 2014 machine shop...
Title: Re: Textile Mill Diorama
Post by: b.lindsey on March 28, 2018, 03:49:37 PM
John, I am quite sure this one will be just as impressive given the start you have made already :)

Bill
Title: Re: Textile Mill Diorama
Post by: J.L. on March 28, 2018, 06:31:42 PM
Thanks for the vote of confidence Bill.

The boiler room seems to be holding my attention this last month. There's cast iron sitting on the bench eagerly waiting to be machined, but working in this room is just fun.
Title: Re: Textile Mill Diorama
Post by: ddmckee54 on March 28, 2018, 06:39:40 PM
John:

You built a ladder so that the fireman could get up onto the platform beside the boiler.  You gonna give him a safety railing because right now it looks like he could easily fall off the edge of the world.

Don
Title: Re: Textile Mill Diorama
Post by: J.L. on March 28, 2018, 07:42:25 PM
Hi Don,
I don't think safety was high on the list, but I too wondered about a ladder that stopped at the edge of the brickwork in the photo below.

I mentioned to Jason, that you'd have to put a knee over the top edge and crawl forward on your hands and knees.

But then I saw the extended piece of hand railing on the right stringer. Mind you, coming down would be a leap of faith as you grabbed it and swung yourself around.

Actually, my eye caught the  same principle on a loading dock in a recent TV show. An extended railing was more elaborage and curled back on itself but it too was only on one side. 

Title: Re: Textile Mill Diorama
Post by: J.L. on March 28, 2018, 10:16:35 PM
Thanks Tom...
Title: Re: Textile Mill Diorama
Post by: wagnmkr on March 28, 2018, 10:57:02 PM
You are welcome John ... it looks good.

Tom
Title: Brickwork
Post by: J.L. on March 30, 2018, 07:56:26 PM
Tom brought home from England mylar templates for all sorts of brickwork patterns. But none are available for the customary low arches found over most industrial windows. I wrote the company wondering why universal low arched brickwork templates were not made. They showed no interest stating that they were not common to most dollhouse applications. Fair enough.

So I made my own using the hard plastic found in produce packaging. Not as easy to use, but get the job done.

This is the door opening in the firewall of the boiler room.
Title: Re: Textile Mill Diorama
Post by: rudydubya on March 30, 2018, 08:37:12 PM
Following along quietly John.  Very well done.

Regards,
Rudy
Title: Re: Textile Mill Diorama
Post by: wagnmkr on March 31, 2018, 11:45:26 AM
That looks really good John.

Tom
Title: Re: Textile Mill Diorama
Post by: Ramon on March 31, 2018, 01:01:37 PM
Impressive modelling John - sounds like you are really enjoying yourself with this build  :)

Tug
Title: Re: Textile Mill Diorama
Post by: J.L. on March 31, 2018, 02:02:16 PM
Thanks Rudy and Tom.

Hi Tug,

Thank you for that kind response. Yes, I am finding this build rather special.

The flywheel is being machined for me as we speak. I have been on oral chemotherapy for two weeks now and being able to stay at home and putter in the shop with this hobby has been therapeutic. Four months to go.

I will pick up the flywheel when I am able to get out and probably drop off another large part that I feel I may not be up to machining.  In the interim periods, I can work on the diorama layout.

But there will be lots of smaller parts of the engine I can make as well.

Cheers...John
Title: Re: Textile Mill Diorama
Post by: Admiral_dk on March 31, 2018, 02:10:19 PM
Beautiful result from your first homemade brick template (as all your other constructions) :praise2:

And the best wishes with the chemo treatment and a healthy outcome  :cheers:

Best wishes

Per
Title: Re: Textile Mill Diorama
Post by: Ramon on March 31, 2018, 04:18:01 PM
Oh that doesn't sound very pleasant John - hope that all works out okay and that the side effects aren't too intrusive. I had a 'scare' about six years ago but despite losing a fair bit inside it turned out for the best. I have several friends who haven't been so blessed however so know only too well what you have to contend with.

It does look like your progress is helping take your mind off matters though - good luck in coming days  :ThumbsUp:.

Tug
Title: Re: Textile Mill Diorama
Post by: J.L. on April 01, 2018, 08:22:03 PM
Thanks fellows. One day at a time.

There is a company in town that refinishes older furniture with chalk and Fusion mineral paints to give them a new lease on life. They cover virtually anything.

I mentioned to the owner that I wanted to replicate the look of bare concrete on a primed wooden floor.  She suggested daubing a mixture of mineral paints on with a sea sponge.

This picture is not very pretty. but in the end, it might work. It is a mixture of Putty, Little Lamb and Soapstone daubed on one at a time. I left the area in front of the boiler a little darker. You can see where I experimented with darker 'Ash'.  :(

 It will be interesting to see what this looks like when the walls and the engine platform are in place. :???:
Title: Re: Textile Mill Diorama
Post by: b.lindsey on April 01, 2018, 08:59:58 PM
That looks good John. Is it the putty that makes it all stick to the wood?

Bill
Title: Re: Textile Mill Diorama
Post by: J.L. on April 01, 2018, 10:00:30 PM
Hi Bill,

No,'Putty' is the name of the Mineral paint. There is a Benjamin Moore high-hiding 'Fresh Start' all purpose latex primer underneath everything. It's good stuff. I use it on all the MDF matrerial.

Tomorrow, I may be able to put some walls up!

Cheers...John


Title: Re: Textile Mill Diorama
Post by: J.L. on April 05, 2018, 12:36:06 PM
The fire wall is in place. It is screwed up from underneath the floor of the diorama. It will have to be removed to later work on the floor.
Title: Re: Textile Mill Diorama
Post by: PJPickard on April 05, 2018, 01:00:21 PM
Wow that looks great! Really captures the right feeling.
Title: Re: Textile Mill Diorama
Post by: wagnmkr on April 05, 2018, 01:59:38 PM
John, I see you have mastered the mylar templates ... your brickwork looks great.

Tom
Title: Re: Textile Mill Diorama
Post by: J.L. on April 05, 2018, 06:40:38 PM
Thanks for the compliments.

I mentioned that the firewall would have to be removed to do later work.

Here's why. A router was used to cut an opening in the floor for the drain sump.  Room was needed to setup fences to keep the router edges cutting straight.

Title: Re: Textile Mill Diorama
Post by: J.L. on April 05, 2018, 08:42:29 PM
The finished floor plates...
Title: Re: Textile Mill Diorama
Post by: J.L. on April 05, 2018, 08:45:11 PM
We are getting close to finalizing the placement of the boiler. The back wall of the boiler room has been in place while I determined the location of the sump pit.

The wall is laminated. This allowed the chimney to look as though it was built into the wall.


Title: Re: Textile Mill Diorama
Post by: J.L. on April 05, 2018, 08:49:33 PM
The faux boiler is made of wood, plastic and chewing gum (just kidding about the gum), but with this air line, it should be able to take lots of pressure - safely.  ;)
Title: Re: Textile Mill Diorama
Post by: zeeprogrammer on April 05, 2018, 09:28:22 PM
Another great thread of learning. It's just fantastic work and detail.

Best wishes with your treatment. Speedy recovery please.
Title: Re: Textile Mill Diorama
Post by: J.L. on April 05, 2018, 09:32:31 PM
Thank you Carl.

Kind words.

John
Title: Re: Textile Mill Diorama
Post by: b.lindsey on April 06, 2018, 01:43:40 AM
More nice detail work John. I check in daily.

Bill
Title: Re: Textile Mill Diorama
Post by: J.L. on April 06, 2018, 09:03:50 PM
Thanks Bill.

Yes, you are a constant companion watching the project grow.  That means a lot to me.

I mentioned on two occasions that the firewall was removable by unscrewing screws from beneath the floor. Here is another example of how well that plan has worked out. I forgot that the lower half of the machine side of the wall had to painted to give the room that 'industrial' traditional look.

No problem, but it would have been if the wall was glued vertically in place. Rolling the final coat of paint onto the bricks gave the a nice texture.

Two boiler room walls are up.

Title: Steam Pipe Wrapping
Post by: J.L. on April 06, 2018, 09:14:05 PM
I've seen butcher twine or light white rope wound around pipes to insulate them. Practical, but if a nice coat of plaster is not appiled nicely, the end result looks like rope wound around pipes.

I've been thinking of using textured self-adhesive tape lengthwise until a fellow at an arts and crafts store suggested plaster wrap. Bingo!

Like having a cast applied, the tape is emersed in warm water and wrapped around the pipe. When dry (20 minutes), you've got what was back in the day, an environmentally unfriendly asbestos wrapped pipe coated with cloth and plaster.

 The colour is even right.

No idea of how useful this would be for fellows using live steam.

Title: Re: Steam Pipe Wrapping
Post by: zeeprogrammer on April 06, 2018, 09:28:00 PM
No idea of how useful this would be for fellows using live steam.

Neat idea. After drying, I wonder how it holds up to water, steam, and/or oil.
Title: Re: Textile Mill Diorama
Post by: crueby on April 06, 2018, 09:57:50 PM
Another one I have used is linen tape, used in book repair. Its white with a tight cloth weave, looks like scaled down asbestos sheets.


 :popcorn:
Title: Re: Textile Mill Diorama
Post by: J.L. on April 07, 2018, 06:47:20 PM
The outside corner of the boiler room is complete.

The quick disconnect is located directly below the chimney.

Title: Machined Cast Iron Base
Post by: J.L. on April 07, 2018, 08:54:50 PM
Now that the back wall of the engine room has been temporarily put in place, the location of the engine's base can be established. Foam mock-up parts are still useful.

I am so glad I had the base professionally machined. It is so long, I would have had trouble clamping it onto the bed of my mill/drill.

James told me that they had to get creative with shims to get the part clamped onto their larger mill so that they could flattened the bottom first.

I should have asked how they clamped it so that they could make long, uninterrupted passes without fouling any clamps. I do recall James telling me that they have a magnetic milling bed. Maybe they used that.

Also, I would have had troube determining the height of the elevated flats on the top of the bed. They are measured down from an imaginary line 1 1/2" above the top of the baseplate. I think a computer is needed to calculate the distances down from this datum line in the air.  :shrug:

I guess you could probably figure out how high the pads should be from the bedplate bottom with a caliper.

Having this base machined for me put me way down the road.
Title: Re: Textile Mill Diorama
Post by: zeeprogrammer on April 08, 2018, 12:18:10 AM
What size is that quick disconnect?
Title: Re: Textile Mill Diorama
Post by: b.lindsey on April 08, 2018, 01:23:32 AM
Nice update John. The partition wall looks the part. Your planning has paid nice dividends :)

Bill
Title: Re: Textile Mill Diorama
Post by: J.L. on April 08, 2018, 10:23:42 AM
Yes Bill, I find I'm using the mock-up now to just reassure myself that things are proportional when I cut the real parts such as partitions. The sizes may change a little bit, but I know basically where the door and the window will go in that partition you mentioned.

Hi Carl,
The quick disconnect is 1/2". Interestingly enough, its ID is just about 5/16"- the diameter of my brass piping. The fitting is epoxied on the pipe. The threads you saw in one of the pics above (page 9) just help anchor the epoxy.

Title: Concrete
Post by: J.L. on April 08, 2018, 03:02:45 PM
As s time went on, I think concrete became the norm for raised piers and pedistals for steam engines.

So this time, I'm moving away from brick. The pedistal is made of laminated particleboard. This material's edge is notorious for its rough edges unlike MDF, so it has been plastered before priming.

The little router bit was not cheap, but with its integrated bearing, it made short work of edging the wood.
Title: Re: Textile Mill Diorama
Post by: b.lindsey on April 08, 2018, 03:08:22 PM
John, on that inside corner in picture 3, how did you get the "vee"  chamfer in the corner. Normally with such a bit, the chamfer will have a radius right in the corner due to the round nature of the bit. Did you stop short of the corner and finish that by hand?

Bill
Title: Re: Textile Mill Diorama
Post by: sco on April 08, 2018, 03:49:08 PM
John that base just looks so special - I can only dream about doing something so good on the Lane and Bodley  :(

Simon.
Title: Re: Textile Mill Diorama
Post by: J.L. on April 08, 2018, 05:20:34 PM
Thanks Simon.

Hi Bill. You are right, the bit does leave a rounded corner. But no, you don't stop short at the corner, you just continue on until the bearing hits and sends you off along the other edge leaving the rounded corner.

Yes, a bit of filing with a fine wood rasp and you've got a mitred corner!

The trick now will be to get a nice concrete 'look' with the sea sponge.

John
Title: Re: Textile Mill Diorama
Post by: J.L. on April 08, 2018, 06:15:03 PM
I think it worked.

We'll see when its dry...

Title: Cuttings Arcs
Post by: J.L. on April 08, 2018, 08:18:18 PM
While waiting for that concrete to dry, here's something that has nothing to do with model engine making, but some might find it interesting. A simple stick added to a trim router makes short work of cutting an arc in wood. Once the radius of the arc is determinged a pivot hole in the stick does the job.

I do have a metal working question. When cutting #10-32 threads with a die, is 3/16" round bar suitable?  :headscratch: I am thinking ahead to bolting the bedplate of the engine to the 'concrete' pedestal. The studs will have to be long enough to go all the way through the bedplate, the pedistal and the floor of the diorama. I don't have threaded rod on hand.

Title: Re: Textile Mill Diorama
Post by: crueby on April 08, 2018, 08:21:20 PM
The outside diameter of 10-32 threads is 0.190", the rod you have is 0.1875, that is plenty close enough, should work fine. If its steel bar, I usually take it down several thou under the thread diameter to start it anyway.
Title: Re: Textile Mill Diorama
Post by: J.L. on April 08, 2018, 08:24:33 PM
Thanks Chris,
Just what I wanted to know.
John
Title: Re: Textile Mill Diorama
Post by: mklotz on April 08, 2018, 08:54:57 PM
Worth remembering...

The OD of a numbered (N) screw thread can be found from the following equation...

OD(in) = 0.013 * N + 0.060

[Mass-produced, rolled on threads may measure slightly less than this value.]
Title: To Date
Post by: J.L. on April 10, 2018, 08:34:57 PM
Hi Marv,
Yes, worth writing down.  But when you've got a guy still working with fractions and using terms such as "a little bit more..." or "a little bit less..." the import of this knowledge is lost.  :)

I try.

Here is the project to date. The eight baseplate mounting holes are established meaning that the location of the pedistal can be finalized in the engine room.

Title: Re: Textile Mill Diorama
Post by: Mcgyver on April 10, 2018, 08:50:57 PM
that looks great!  I really like the boiler
Title: Baseplate Mounting
Post by: J.L. on April 11, 2018, 07:39:29 PM
Thanks!

Eight studs were made out of 3/16" round bar to pass through the baseplate, the pedestal, and the floor. Each end was reduced to 5/32" for #8-32 washers and nuts. The nuts are scale model nuts with lands.

A great casting.

Title: Re: Textile Mill Diorama
Post by: b.lindsey on April 12, 2018, 12:30:34 AM
Coming along well John. I guess it's on to some engine parts now  ^-^

Bill
Title: Re: Textile Mill Diorama
Post by: J.L. on April 12, 2018, 02:11:25 AM
Thanks Bill.

Yes, the next two items will be the bearing blocks. I'll be interested to see if, when they are made, they will allow the flywheel to clear the floor. Until then, that back wall can not be permenately put in place. I may have to run a router around that floor space for a flywheel pit.

John

Title: Re: Textile Mill Diorama
Post by: Kim on April 12, 2018, 05:33:52 AM
Looks like your cement is dry now, so you can mount your engine :)

I'm following along and enjoying the show.  You do amazing work, John!
Kim
Title: Re: Textile Mill Diorama
Post by: J.L. on April 12, 2018, 05:08:08 PM
Thanks fellows.

The diorama is becoming quite cumbersome and heavy to move so I have purchased a stainless steel table.

This diorama is meant to be viewed from both sides. If it were in the centre of a room, you could walk around it to view each side. But in a residential setting where space is at a premium, it probably would be pushed up against a wall.

Thus, I have added large 5" wheels to the tubluar legs. It can be spun around with ease.

The second shot is looking south at the engine room.

The third  photo is looking north into the single storied woodworking shop that is attached to the back of the mill.
Title: Main Bearings
Post by: J.L. on April 13, 2018, 12:07:52 PM
Okay, here we go with my first attempt at split bearings.
I assume, I can hand sand the gunmetal bearing halves on a steel plate to make them nice and flat.
Then they are soldered together.

Quick question.

The halves are cleaned well and solder paste spead smoothly across their faces. Then they are fastened together (wire?)
If they fit tightly together, will capillary action draw enough solf solder in to fasten them securely?

There is a lot of metal with the two bearings joined together. Should they be cut and each on soldered separately?

Curious. Of course, if this fails, I guess I could get in the car and head to the bearing store and buy two 7/16" bearing sleeves.  ::)

John
Title: Re: Textile Mill Diorama
Post by: J.L. on April 13, 2018, 12:44:04 PM
I may have answered one of my questions. The metal is soft and as you can see from these two photos, only a few strokes across a piece of sandpaper on a flat steel surface began to smooth out the castings.

So maybe not making the surfaces perfectly flat will give the solder some 'tooth' to grab and hold the halves together?

Title: Re: Textile Mill Diorama
Post by: crueby on April 13, 2018, 01:57:09 PM
In Kozo's books on builing the trains, he says you need some small gap for the silver solder to be drawn through the joint by capillary action, for wide joints he recommended making a couple small taps with a punch to make dimples to leave the gap.
Title: Re: Textile Mill Diorama
Post by: J.L. on April 13, 2018, 02:14:17 PM
Chris, it's a soft soldering job. I suppose you could even Loctite the parts together. Later in the process, you have to Loctite the bearings onto a mandrel for finish turning, so heating will be required anyway.

But I'd like to try the soldering first. The trick is, you dont really know how much bond you have accomplished. All we would need would be to have the halves fly apart in the lathe!  :-[

Also,there is a spigot on one end of the castings, so maybe the intent is to grab that spigot in a chuck and bore the 7/16" hole through both bearings at once. You could use the tailstock centre to orient the castings and wrap some wire around the halves for safety.

But boring all the way may be not so good. You could bore in the distance of one bearing and cut it off. Then continue into the second bearing. Might prevent wandering.

Thinking out loud here.  Sorry.

Title: Re: Textile Mill Diorama
Post by: john mills on April 13, 2018, 02:36:21 PM
the two faces should be faced late as these are the faces come together when the bearings are finished and the hole is the size to fit the shaft.  you can tin both faces then place them together wiping together only a minimum of solder is required you don't won't thickness as when they are melted apart the hole still needs to be round when the faces are cleaned again light rub on wet and dry . when seeing in four jaw chuck place so the jaws hold
the two halves together.
Title: Re: Textile Mill Diorama
Post by: J.L. on April 13, 2018, 02:58:10 PM
Thanks John,

So if I understand, I tin each surface and wipe with a rag when still hot. After they have cooled a bit, I wire them together so that they won't shift and apply heat. The tinning should melt and bond as the casting is heated.  Right?

You are right. The bearings are finished later after they are bonded onto a mandrel.

John
Title: Re: Textile Mill Diorama
Post by: Jasonb on April 13, 2018, 03:40:07 PM
I usually machine the mating surfaces, then as John says you can either tin both and then sweat them together or if you have solder paste that can be applied to one surface then rub the other one onto it so the paste is evenly spread on both surfaces then heat them while held together.

Once soldered hold in the 4-jaw to turn the spigot true then you can use that to hold them by while the outside is trued up. I then like to hold by the outside while drilling and boring or reaming is done so you don't force them apart. Once you have the hole the outside and ends can be finished off with mandrel or collets.
Title: Re: Textile Mill Diorama
Post by: J.L. on April 13, 2018, 06:39:23 PM
Thanks Jason.

I like your idea of gripping the outer surfaces of the casting to prevent spread. Even if my lathe chuck is not running true (I know it isn't), there will be enough meat left on the casting to true things up when the bored hole is mounted on the turned down mandrel.
Title: Re: Textile Mill Diorama
Post by: J.L. on April 13, 2018, 09:25:51 PM
I could not get that spigot centred properly in the 4-jaw, so I just took your idea Jason of grabbing the whole thing and turned this face.

Now I wish I had cut off that spigot. I am not going to take this casting out of the chuck until the finished hole is drilled and reamed to 7/16". So that extra metal is back in there unused.

Title: Re: Textile Mill Diorama
Post by: john mills on April 14, 2018, 01:44:18 AM
i don't know the part made from the casting .But if the spigot is for holding the casting is set so the main important dimensions can be obtained ,the parting line needs to be along and on the centre line and important diameters central.then the spigot turned to that.its a casting so it may be way off but if there is enough metal and it is to be removed latter it does not matter.Then if the casting can be held from the spigot the od. can be
turned true depending on how much metal on the casting then that makes it easier to set up straight for further machining remember it is about the parting linen the centre and at both ends. hard to get if it is back inside the chuck.
Title: Re: Textile Mill Diorama
Post by: J.L. on April 14, 2018, 02:46:26 PM
Well John, after reading your response above, I turned the casting around and centred the spigot end on the split line. I  mounted the casting between centres with a lathe dog and attempted to get a rough round with my small Unimat lathe.

Long story short, the casting is in the junk bin. Good thing you suggested gripping both sides of the soldered parts Jason. When I set the part on the desk, it fell apart!

The hole had wandered off the centre line.

So Monday, we go after a couple of Oilite bronze bearings. I will get them long enough so that a faux flange can be put on each end.

In the meantime, I'll see if I can screw up the pedistal blocks. ;D
Title: Re: Textile Mill Diorama
Post by: BAH on April 15, 2018, 01:19:39 AM
Wow, canít believe I have missed this thread. Great work as always  :ThumbsUp:
Title: Flywheel Pit
Post by: J.L. on April 15, 2018, 08:50:41 PM
Thank you.

Well, I did mess up the cast pedistal bearing blocks! But I don't think my heart was in it to begin with. I guess I'm one of the people who prefer to build up parts from scratch with bar stock.

I read about bringing the blocks to 1/2" thickness by mounting them in the 4-jaw chuck. No, I think I will begin with material that is 1/2" thick and use my mill/drill for drilling and shaping.

The MDF blocks are very crude in this photo, but they serve a purpose. They determine whether the flywheel will clear the floor of the room.

Only a shallow pit was required.
Title: Re: Textile Mill Diorama
Post by: Jasonb on April 15, 2018, 08:57:40 PM
With the type of crank you have on that engine you really don't need split bushes you could just use bar, ream the hole and use a parting tool to cut the waist.

If you do go down the oilite route then you can buy flanged ones which would give you a flange on one side so just dummy the other or buy 4 of them, cut short and fit one from each side so you have flanges both sides.
Title: Bushings
Post by: J.L. on April 15, 2018, 10:12:24 PM
Hi Jason,

I find your comments very reassuring. You are open to alternatives and willing to share your thoughts freely. That's what makes this site work!  :ThumbsUp:

I like your idea of four bearings with flanges. Hopefully, I can get 7/16" I.D. Oilite. There is a pretty good bearing store here in Peterborough.

We'll see.

Thank you Jason.

John
Title: Re: Textile Mill Diorama
Post by: john mills on April 16, 2018, 10:10:21 AM
Hi  john,
sorry to see you did not have success with the castings ,working from bar would be easier  i would machine two rectangular blocks  both the same thickness ,then solder together.I would make them long enough to hold in the four jaw chuck by full length of the chuck jaws . it would be easier to set square and the jion in the centre .
I would drill well under size ,remove the rake from the drill so it won't grab.Then you can turn the out side and bore the hole in the same setting.If you finish to size with a reamer only leave a few thou to ream .Then the part can be cut off in the vice if you like turnaround to face the other end  required.
i loo like the look of the boiler you have done a great job.
Title: Re: Textile Mill Diorama
Post by: J.L. on April 19, 2018, 03:51:03 PM
Thanks for your advice John.

I have decided to strike out on my own and make the bearings and the pedisrtal bearing blocks from scratch.

These photos show the first stages of making the pedistals.
Title: Re: Textile Mill Diorama
Post by: Jasonb on April 19, 2018, 06:55:52 PM
We'll have you scratch building whole engines before long John ;)
Title: Re: Textile Mill Diorama
Post by: J.L. on April 21, 2018, 08:33:07 PM
Hi Jason,

I don't think so, but thanks for the vote of connfidence with what I'm able to make.

Here are the blocks ready for drilling  the large hole to receive the brass bearings.

When things get stressful, I slip into some diorama work...
 
Title: Re: Textile Mill Diorama
Post by: J.L. on April 21, 2018, 09:05:00 PM
Did I say stressful?

Well, I think I have the blocks centred in the 4-jaw, but I've never bored a hole before. I bought these carbide boring bits some time ago.  They don't look like those thick round bars people use with a little bit sticking out the side, but if I drill a hole up to 35/64" (my largest drill), I should be able to continue on with these boring bits up to a 5/8" hole.

The narrow necks on the tools concern me. They are out so far from where they can be gripped, they may 'spring'.

We'll see what light cuts in aluminum will do...
Title: Re: Textile Mill Diorama
Post by: Larry Sw on April 21, 2018, 09:21:18 PM
Your problem with those boring tools will probably be that they are not sharp.
If you have a diamond coated hone you can improve them a bit to get a keener edge.
Also those narrow necked tools are a bit delicate so don't push the feed and depth of cut too much
or they will bend.
Larry
Title: Re: Textile Mill Diorama
Post by: Larry Sw on April 21, 2018, 09:23:05 PM
An additional thought is that you may want to just try them out on a piece of scrap first before
screwing up a part that you have spent some time on already.

Larry
Title: Re: Textile Mill Diorama
Post by: crueby on April 21, 2018, 09:41:47 PM
Second what Larry said, the leading tips look pretty dull, they need a sharpening. Not uncommon for that style boring tools.
Title: Re: Textile Mill Diorama
Post by: crueby on April 21, 2018, 09:44:51 PM
On second look, those bits are meant for a boring head in the mill, aren't they? They have a little flat in the shank?  Oh, and the thin necks are normal, gives the chips more clear path out. For lathe work a boring bar, with a replaceable index tip, is my favorite.
Title: Re: Textile Mill Diorama
Post by: J.L. on April 21, 2018, 09:51:21 PM
I will try your idea Larry with a test hole in a piece of scrap.

Of course a 5/8" drill with a 1/2" shank would a lot easier.

This hole is just a saddle hole for a bearing. It's there where drilling and reaming will be critical.
John
Title: Re: Textile Mill Diorama
Post by: J.L. on April 21, 2018, 10:41:37 PM
No Chris, these boring bars are designed for the tool post on the cross slide.
You clamp down on the square collet to fasten them in place.
But they are useless I find, becasuse the half shaped metal upon which the carbide bit is brazed is larger than the hole the bit makes.
You'd have to grind off much of the metal below the bit to prevent fouling.

I guess I'm out of luck with this hole. Large diameter bits are very expensive for a one-time use.

Hmm....
Title: Re: Textile Mill Diorama
Post by: wagnmkr on April 21, 2018, 10:46:09 PM
John, I have a lot of experience with those boring tools and I am happy to come over and help. I also have a 5/8 drill with a 1/2" shank.

Tom
Title: Re: Textile Mill Diorama
Post by: zeeprogrammer on April 21, 2018, 10:48:29 PM
I just used one of those (or similar) for boring my cylinders. My tool post holder was an AXA 250-102...designed to take a boring bar (or turning cutter).
It has a groove running lengthwise on the bottom that the cutter shaft sits in.
The cutters don't have a flat on the shaft.
My cylinders are about 1 1/8" long and I was just able to do it by drilling the bore with a 3/8 drill bit first.
Longer cutters would need a larger bore to get into.

As for springing...sneak up on it and take a finish path.

If your bore is too small, then yes, you may be out of luck. But can you drill it a bit larger before boring?
Title: Re: Textile Mill Diorama
Post by: Larry Sw on April 21, 2018, 11:01:00 PM
A 5/8" drill bit will drill a hole a bit larger than 5/8" but if you can make your bronze insert to fit it's OK.

Larry
Title: Re: Textile Mill Diorama
Post by: J.L. on April 21, 2018, 11:20:49 PM
Larry, you are right. The whole idea of getting that hole in the pedistal blocks is so that the bearing inserts can be machined to fit exactly.

Thanks Tom, that's just what I need. I'll send you a PM.

John
Title: The Bedplate
Post by: J.L. on April 24, 2018, 01:19:12 PM
The cast iron bed plate is fastened to its pedistal with eight #8-32 studs, washers and scale model nuts.

The colour of choice this time - dark green.
Title: Re: Textile Mill Diorama
Post by: b.lindsey on April 24, 2018, 06:18:13 PM
Very nice John. The sub-base, just below the pedestal look just like concrete which I am guessing is the look you are going for and definitely achieved!!  Jo will love the studs and nuts  :ROFL:

Bill
Title: Re: Textile Mill Diorama
Post by: J.L. on April 24, 2018, 08:11:49 PM
Thanks Bill.

The little flats cast for the washers and nuts were small in diameter. A #8 washer looked a bit oversized so I went down to #6 washers and reamed them  so that they woud slip over the studs and not overlap the cast flats.

Tomorrow I go back to some metal, but today I worked up the window at the back of the mill. There are two different and distinctive style of windows in play here. Industrial windows are set into the wall with no casings. They are often set back in steel frames. This look is seen on the machine room side of the wall.

But on the other side of the back wall, there will be a single storied woodworking shop. A much warmer look is desirable here where the window treatment include stool, apron and casings. It's a woodworking shop!  ;D
Title: Re: Textile Mill Diorama
Post by: J.L. on April 24, 2018, 08:19:27 PM
Thanks for the comment about the'concrete' look Bill.

However, I stil like that earlier, warmer brick facade that was used the century before.

John
Title: Re: Textile Mill Diorama
Post by: crueby on April 24, 2018, 09:02:07 PM
Nice job on the windows - how do you make the grids? Did I miss that in an earlier post?
Title: Muntins and Mullions
Post by: J.L. on April 24, 2018, 09:50:55 PM
Hi Chris,

Sorry, I did not detail the making of the muntins and mullions. Boy you should have seen the size of the putty knife I was using to glaze those thirty-five pieces of glass!  :Lol:

No, actually a sheet of plastic was scored to set up the gridwork. This time I went back to using wood that was ripped on my table saw from bass stripwood. On the beam and Benson dioramas, I used plastic strips.

The trick is to get the little pieces of wood in place without smearing glue all over the place. I used spray adhesive in a jig. The strip was placed in the jig and the adhesive sprayed on. Then the strip was lifted out and stuck onto the window over the pre-scored lines. The tacky glue in the photo did not work well at all. Nor did CA glue.

Title: Re: Textile Mill Diorama
Post by: 90LX_Notch on April 25, 2018, 01:02:39 AM
As far as your boring bar dilemma, there are multiple ways to "skin a cat".  Modify an existing bar, grind one from a hss blank, grind one from a broken endmill/drill, or make one from tool steel and harden it.  I've done all of the aforementioned methods to solve a machining problem.  You're limited only by your imagination and willingness to try.

-Bob
Title: Re: Textile Mill Diorama
Post by: J.L. on April 25, 2018, 01:16:40 PM
I agree Bob. Creativity; the mother of invention.

Hi Chris,
I read on your steam shovel thread that weight was becoming an issue when moving the model around. I too, have had to have help in moving my diorama off the saw table so that I could use the saw. I have had good luck with stainless steel tables (18 gauge) with castors. They are not as secure or stable as what you are considering,but they certainly make life easier.

Wheels on the bottom of the cart can be a problem with vibration and movement, even with the wheels locked. In the second photo, I have shown stabilizers that can be dropped down with adjusters that take the weight off the wheels and make the table very stable. Much like heavy equipment drop jacks to lift the vehicle off the tires before they start to do thier work.

Cheers...John
Title: Re: Textile Mill Diorama
Post by: crueby on April 25, 2018, 01:19:34 PM
Hi John, great tip on the tables, thanks!
Title: Re: Textile Mill Diorama
Post by: J.L. on April 25, 2018, 09:19:25 PM
You are very welcome Chris.

A big thank you goes out to Thomas Saunders who came over this morning to help me with the bearing blocks. It was not a boring morining at all! ::)

We went through the drill  ::) of bringing the saddle holes in the blocks to 5/8".

Here is an unadulterated shot of the blocks straight onto the desktop for photographing without any edge softening, added fillets or hole fiilling. The oil holes will be drilled and threaded later.

The arc on the caps have been left proud of the flats for washers. It also made sanding the arcs easier without marring the flats.

Note: Safety was critical with the sanding of the aluminum. The belt and disk sander was removed from the grinder area and cleaned thoroughly. A dusk mask was worn at all times during the profiling of the pieces.

I have read that aluminum in the presence of steel or iron can cause explosions?  :o

And breating aluminum dust is a no-no from what I've read.

 
Title: Re: Textile Mill Diorama
Post by: wagnmkr on April 25, 2018, 10:43:11 PM
Always a pleasure to help John.

Tom
Title: Re: Textile Mill Diorama
Post by: crueby on April 25, 2018, 10:46:09 PM
I think thermite is basically a mix of iron oxide and aluminum powder. It takes a pretty hot ignition source, so general cleaning is good but no need to be surgically clean.
Title: Re: Textile Mill Diorama
Post by: derekwarner on April 25, 2018, 10:56:23 PM
So JL says......"I have read that aluminum in the presence of steel or iron can cause explosions?  :o "
____________________________

In Australia JL, aluminium is banned in underground gaseous Coal Mines.......steel if dropped on an aluminium  surface can create a spark....this then would ignite the gaseous floor [C O series gasses (principally Methane CH4 ) and cause an explosion

The C O series gasses are also called Bottom Gas...as [heavier than air] they settle to the mine tunnel floor.....many hundreds' of Coal Mine workers have been killed in such explosions....in 1979, 14 Miners were killed in a Coal Mine explosion just 20 Km from our City of Wollongong

https://www.google.com.au/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=1&cad=rja&uact=8&ved=0ahUKEwjalp6es9baAhXFu7wKHcBaCNsQFggnMAA&url=https%3A%2F%2Fen.wikipedia.org%2Fwiki%2FAppin_mine_disaster&usg=AOvVaw1pUk5aEfJcm30ZCJbyVIS9
Title: Re: Textile Mill Diorama
Post by: J.L. on April 26, 2018, 04:16:23 PM
Good but sad information Derek. Thanks. So I guess it can be sparks and not just high heat that set things off.

The oil hole in the cap of the blocks is being centred here. It will be drilled for a 3/32" pin to pass through, not for the oil cup threads.

I read and saw a diagram where a little pin sits at the bottom of the saddle and prevents the brass bearing from rotating. I guess this means that the bearing can be later removed if necessary - a situation not possible if Loctite is used.

So the drill will be used to drill all the way through the cap and the bearings into the lower portion of the bearing block.

Then it will be sized up in the cap for #8-32 threading.

If I had made split bearings, only the lower half of the brass bearing would require the little hole.
Title: Re: Textile Mill Diorama
Post by: zeeprogrammer on April 26, 2018, 04:34:48 PM
I'd like to know more about that little pin.
When is it necessary to prevent the bearing from rotating?
Are there other methods used in the field?

Thanks.

[EDIT] Now that I think about it, seems I've seen cases where the oil cup itself prevents the bearing from rotating. But something bothers me about that.
Title: Re: Textile Mill Diorama
Post by: crueby on April 26, 2018, 05:22:33 PM
I'd like to know more about that little pin.
When is it necessary to prevent the bearing from rotating?
Are there other methods used in the field?

Thanks.

[EDIT] Now that I think about it, seems I've seen cases where the oil cup itself prevents the bearing from rotating. But something bothers me about that.
The MEM Corliss was one that used the oil cup to keep the bearing from turning in the holder. If the bearing has a round outside, you don't want it spinning in the holder, just the shaft within the bearing. Also, if there is no lip on either side, the bearing can walk itself out of the holder if it is not pinned. On the split bearings, I usually put in a drop of loctite between the bearing and the holder to keep them in place, a real nuisance when the keep shifting and falling out as you put the holder on.
Title: Bearing Pin
Post by: J.L. on April 26, 2018, 09:08:19 PM
Disregarding my camera's parallax, this diagram is self-explanatory.

I would think anohter advantage to installing the pin would be that bearings tend to run themselves in and become comfortable in a certain position. If the bearings were taken out and put back in for any reason, without the pin, the bearings would probably not return to the same position.

Probably a small point, but worth considering. The bearings should be concentric no matter where they are positioned before tightening the caps, but you never know...

Note:
Drawing Credit:
Ernest Winter, Building the Bolton No.7 Horizontal Mill Engine, 1992, pg. 21

Title: Re: Textile Mill Diorama
Post by: john mills on April 26, 2018, 09:21:31 PM
The bronze bush should be a tight fit in the hole  when the cap is bolted down as is meant to hold the bearing
in place the pin locates for assembly .with automotive bearings the lugs on bearing shells locate on assembly
but the shells will soon spin if the tunnel sizes are too  loose .
Title: Bearing Brasses
Post by: J.L. on April 27, 2018, 02:51:43 PM
The first bearing brass has been reamed to 7/16" and turned with 7/8" flanges, and a 5/8" waist which was cut with a parting tool.

Thanks again for that 5/8" dril Tom.


Title: Re: Textile Mill Diorama
Post by: wagnmkr on April 27, 2018, 03:55:35 PM
No problem John ... glad to help.

Tom
Title: Re: Textile Mill Diorama
Post by: b.lindsey on April 27, 2018, 10:09:28 PM
Looks good John. Still following along here  :popcorn:

Bill
Title: Re: Textile Mill Diorama
Post by: J.L. on April 28, 2018, 06:18:20 PM
Thanks Bill.

The bearing blocks with their brass solid bearings are nearing completion.

Enjoyment of making them went up tenfold when I got rid of those castings.

I understand there is a lively discussion about castings vs. bar stock fabrication. :stickpoke:

Here is a prime example for me, of where starting from scratch has an advantage. Now something like a cylinder block casting... that's another matter.
Title: Re: Textile Mill Diorama
Post by: mklotz on April 28, 2018, 06:46:30 PM

Enjoyment of making them went up tenfold when I got rid of those castings.

I understand there is a lively discussion about castings vs. bar stock fabrication.

Too right, John.  As an example, the four gang pulley on this PMR lathe model...

(https://www.use.com/images/s_2/143ee8efa76a743c3a45_11.jpg) (https://www.use.com/143ee8efa76a743c3a45?p=11)
(https://www.use.com/images/clicklarge3.gif) (https://www.use.com/143ee8efa76a743c3a45?p=11)

is supplied as a rough, solid casting.  Holding it to drill for a mandrel on which to mount if for turning is problematic at best.  Turning it from a bar of stock with the bar secured in the lathe chuck makes the job the proverbial piece of cake.

One of the biggest advantages of working from bar stock is the fact that each piece comes with a nice "handle" to hold it while detail is applied.
Title: Bearing Pins
Post by: J.L. on April 28, 2018, 07:46:15 PM
We are on the same page Marv.

Looking at your headstock brings back fond memories.
 
By the way, did you make the power saw and the foot operated wood lathe? As you know, a line shaft will be going into the woodworking shop. Looking forward to making the saw.

Here are three photos showing the installation of the bearing pins. In the first photo, a larger drill is passing through the cap for the oil hole until it hit the bottom of the bearing. It was then replaced with a smaller 3/64" drill to pass through the bottom of the bearing and into the pedistal block.

I used a trick Willy showed us when drilling a hole for a valve rod through the open space until the drill hit the bottom of the valve chest. He packed it temporarily with an insert of perspex to stop the drill from wandering about until it passed into the bottom of the chest.

You can see a piece of birch dowel filling the bearing hole in the second photo. It also helped the smaller drill centre itself before engaging the bottom of the bearing.

Thanks Willy.

In the third photo, the bearing is seated in its 'saddle'. If you look closely, you can see the steel locating pin. One advangage of having a little recess there: a little resevoir for oil at the bottom of the bearing!


Title: Re: Textile Mill Diorama
Post by: Jasonb on April 28, 2018, 07:49:09 PM
Those parts have come out very well John, seems like me you get more satisfaction from doing it yourself without the castings. certainly nothing wrong with enjoying whatever method you choose to use afterall we are meant to be doing this for our own enjoymment :)

Regarding the bearing pins, I have seen it done in both ways either the pin which seems to be the more common method or the wick tube from the oiler extends down into the top hole. If using the pin method remember to make the pin from something the same as or softer than the bearing material as if you get a lot of wear on the bearings a hard pin will make a nice groove in your shaft.
Title: Re: Textile Mill Diorama
Post by: J.L. on April 28, 2018, 08:06:40 PM
Well said Jason and thank you.

I never thought about wear! If the engine were to be used steadily, I would replace those steel pins with brass ones.

Makes perfect sense. Good point.

John
Title: To Date
Post by: J.L. on April 28, 2018, 08:38:04 PM
Here we have the primed bearing sitting quietly on their pads waiting for paint and fittings.

I think they will be waiting awhile. I'd like to tackle that door into the woodworking shop next.  :)
Title: Re: Bearing Pins
Post by: mklotz on April 28, 2018, 09:37:26 PM
By the way, did you make the power saw and the foot operated wood lathe? As you know, a line shaft will be going into the woodworking shop. Looking forward to making the saw.

Yes I did.

(https://www.use.com/images/s_2/143ee8efa76a743c3a45_33.jpg) (https://www.use.com/143ee8efa76a743c3a45?p=33)
(https://www.use.com/images/clicklarge3.gif) (https://www.use.com/143ee8efa76a743c3a45?p=33)
(https://www.use.com/images/s_2/143ee8efa76a743c3a45_37.jpg) (https://www.use.com/143ee8efa76a743c3a45?p=37)
(https://www.use.com/images/clicklarge3.gif) (https://www.use.com/143ee8efa76a743c3a45?p=37)
(https://www.use.com/images/s_2/143ee8efa76a743c3a45_38.jpg) (https://www.use.com/143ee8efa76a743c3a45?p=38)
(https://www.use.com/images/clicklarge3.gif) (https://www.use.com/143ee8efa76a743c3a45?p=38)
(https://www.use.com/images/s_2/143ee8efa76a743c3a45_51.jpg) (https://www.use.com/143ee8efa76a743c3a45?p=51)
(https://www.use.com/images/clicklarge3.gif) (https://www.use.com/143ee8efa76a743c3a45?p=51)

In fact, I've built all the PMR machine tool models.
Title: Re: Textile Mill Diorama
Post by: Chipswitheverything on April 29, 2018, 08:45:26 AM
Enjoyed looking at the fine historic m/c tool models Marv, and the gallery of your other attractive tool models that the enlargement references.    Re. the circular saw, I suppose that the model is prototype based and safety factors were seldom to the fore one hundred plus years ago  - no fixed guard over the blade, and no riving knife behind it to prevent the timber being hurled forward by the back of the saw blade if the kerf contracts.
 But using a power saw bench, one often pushes the wood on through, very often fed through by the following length of lumber.  I can see interesting situations as the cut timber lands haphazardly and pings off into the spokes of the driving pulley...!   I wonder if users tended to concoct some sort of shop made, probably wooden,  cover to locate over the moving elements?
  Dave
Title: Re: Textile Mill Diorama
Post by: J.L. on April 29, 2018, 01:47:10 PM
Thanks for the photos Marv. When this diorama is finished we both will have made all the PM floor machine models.

Marv, in a diorama representing the last of one century and the beginning of another, that antique pedel powered wood lathe would probably wind up in the corner covered with a tarp. With the advent of line shafts, wood lathes were quickly converted. In a textile mill, there could have been quite a few at work. There were many spindles, shuttles and spools to be turned and reparied upstairs.

Hi Dave,
You may be interested in knowing that the saw arbour does can not be raised or lowered. Only the table can be tilted up or down to adjust the depth of saw cut. Get your head around that one.

I appreciate very much the acceptance of me diverging on this site often from model engine making to discuss items not related to machining engines at all. Many have said that the diroamas enhance the engines and add to their realism. I agree.

Thank you.

With that in mind, we turn our attention to some door hangeing. Houseworks in Atlanta, GA import 1/12 scale doll house doors and advertise them as interior doors. They are not. But because they have no hinges, they are forced to locate a pin at the bottom of the door to allow it to swing. Hense the 'exterior' sill.

Once you remove that sill, the door won't operate unless you provide a means of locating a bottom pin. Also, you have to add door stop trim around the door to prevent it from swinging in and out like a saloon door.

This provides a great opportunity for some kit bashing.

Here is the revised door with no sill between rooms. The flooring strip will mate with plank flooring later which will run perpendicularly.
Title: Re: Textile Mill Diorama
Post by: J.L. on April 29, 2018, 04:01:06 PM
The door will be painted white on one side and brown on the other. So while the white paint dries, I thought I'd have a go at the grub screw on the flywheel.

A keyway was another option, but from what I've read, this is quite a powerful engine (3/4 hp) and it could be used for serious, continuous use. A keyway would make sense for those applications.

But, I will be running this engine for what; one to two minutes at a time to impress family and friends? I think a grub screw will suffice.

The vice is canted 30 degrees to clear the chuck and bring the grub screw close to the centre of the bore.
Title: The Flywheel
Post by: J.L. on April 29, 2018, 07:58:34 PM
We have three-quarters of a pound of cast iron now ready to maintain momentum...
Title: Re: Textile Mill Diorama
Post by: crueby on April 29, 2018, 08:45:37 PM
Great looking flywheel! Like the door too...

 :popcorn:
Title: Square Corners
Post by: J.L. on April 30, 2018, 04:25:46 PM
Thanks Chris.

Making square corners in wood panels can be a pain if you have to file them. I'm not good at it and the corner never really looks that crisp.

Here's a tip to cut perfect right angle corners.

Dave, I mentioned that the table on the early table saws had to be tiipped to expose more or less blade. But with our new saws, the saw mandrel can be raised or lowered because of its attached motor. To get square corners, you simply raise the blade up into the work until you see the blade peek through. 

In the first photo kerf overrun is not a problem as the wall will be panelled.

Title: Re: Textile Mill Diorama
Post by: Chipswitheverything on May 01, 2018, 08:12:17 AM
Hello John, enjoying your progress reports as always, and thanks for the comments about the interesting model saw bench.   I used to use various smaller industrial sized circular saws and other machine woodworking equipment quite a lot at my former places of work.  In the workplace, though not at home!, removal of the blade guard and riving knife is not an approved practice in modern times, and would call for some other guarding provision : a guard of the type mounted on a separate overarm might be OK, but then you might not be able to see the extent of the kerf! Probably things were easier when a few fingers more or less hardly mattered! , not to the employer anyway...   
  Did you brush paint, or mask and spray your flywheel?  When I brushed the 7" flywheel on my Stuart No 1 engine I had a game keeping the paint edges "alive" as the work continued, there are more and more of them as you go round the spokes!      Dave
Title: Re: Textile Mill Diorama
Post by: J.L. on May 01, 2018, 10:57:36 AM
Hi Dave,
You have taught me a new term 'keeping the edge "live". I undertand perfectly what you are saying. I am not good at paintnig metal surfaces.

No, the rim and edges of the wheel were masked. I used paint custom prepared and pressurized in a spray can and purchased at an auto paint supply store. I used the type that does not require a topcoat.

Care was taken to keep the  painted edge 'crisp'. I find the eye very unforgiving if the painted edge of the wheel wavers.

Thanks for asking.

John
Title: Shop Door
Post by: J.L. on May 01, 2018, 03:27:01 PM
The door kit was designed for a standard 2 x 4" studded wall. Rahter than thicken the frame to fit the 6" back wall of the mill, an arched recess was formed into the concrete wall.

The door has a shaped strike plate in the jamb made out of shim brass to give it a satisfying 'snap' when closed.

It's back to some metal now. I'd like to make the crank webs next. They don't look too difficult.





Title: Re: Textile Mill Diorama
Post by: zeeprogrammer on May 01, 2018, 04:00:31 PM
A skill I wish I had was the ability to pick and match colors.
I can't even choose a proper shade of white.

The diorama is looking great John.

I've been following along.  :popcorn:
Title: Re: Textile Mill Diorama
Post by: J.L. on May 01, 2018, 09:54:11 PM
Thanks Zee.

From what I can see as a novice to the hobby, the 4-jaw is most often referred to as the way to go to drill holes where centres have to be moved. But I am finding that rather than loosen and readjust jaws in new positions, the drill/mill does the job much more easily.

With the crankshaft webs, for example, the holes are 1 1/8" apart. No problem.

But I can see an advantage to reaming holes to finish size on the lathe. The reamer can drill right through into open space in the bore of the headstock.

With the table, enough packing has to be placed under the holes for the end of the reamer to finish its cut. The last 1/8" of a reamer does not engage the hole.

Offsetting for eccentrics makes sense to me for eccentrics, but I've heard that some fellows do them also on the drill/mill wth a rotary table.

Different strokes  to achieve the same goal I guess.


Title: Crank Webs
Post by: J.L. on May 02, 2018, 08:57:49 PM
The steel crank webs are complete.

Through hole is the axle diameter - 7/16". The other hole is a smaller 13/32" hole to allow the crank pin to have a shoulder.

I am not sure how to turn the crank pin. It sounds simple to just take a piece of 7/16" rod and put a 13/32" x  3/8" shoulder on each end.

A 7/16" rod in my chucks does not run true. AlsoI have had little luck removing a part from the chuck and turning it around. Once it leaves the chuck all bets are off that both ends will be concentric.

If I started with 1/2" bar stock I could face and turn the right 13/32" shoulder and check its diameter with the crank web hole; turn the 7/16" through hole and check it again with the crank web through hole; but the left shoulder could not be checked physically with the crank web. Only after the crank pin was parted off could it be trial fitted to the crank web to see how close I came to the correct diameter.

But everything would be all turned in one go without removing the bar from the lathe. I'me sure 1/2" bar stock could hang out far enough  from the chuck to do this.

Something to sleep on...



Title: Re: Textile Mill Diorama
Post by: Chipswitheverything on May 03, 2018, 03:08:21 PM
Hi John, I would tend to go along with the thought of turning the pin at the one setting in the chuck.  Assuming that the 13/32" holes reamed (?) in the webs are identical in diameter  ( in any case, you can check the similar fit of both on the first section that you turn down ) , then your measuring of the inboard turned section is just using the micrometer as a "comparator" with the reading for the dia. of the accessible bit of turned length .  Particularly if you use the friction thimble on the 'mike to ensure similar pressure.
 If the diameters are nicely the same, then it should be fine!     Dave
Title: Crankshaft
Post by: J.L. on May 04, 2018, 06:58:12 PM
Yes Dave, I turned the crank pin from 1/2" round bar all in one go.

Mind you, It took three pins before I got it right.  ::)

I think the moment of truth for everyone who makes the crankshaft like this is when it is set up after cutting out the web and watching to see if the flywheel is wobbling all around.

In theory, making the shaft like this should work, but picking up the hacksaw... well...
Title: Re: Textile Mill Diorama
Post by: J.L. on May 04, 2018, 07:49:07 PM
It is recommended that the Loctite in the crankshaft and crankwebs set up for 24 hours before pinning.

So a little bit of panelling in the shop is being undertaken.

Get a grip...

Also, a sneek peek at the boiler below the bar clamp.


Title: Re: Textile Mill Diorama
Post by: J.L. on May 06, 2018, 10:11:14 PM
Back to some metal.

It is interesting how different companies cast their metal and the level of precision that is realized when the parts are cast.

Here is a photo of two castings. You can guess in an instant which one is cast in England by Stuart Models. Some have recently criticized them for the quality of their work, but I find their castings crisp and exact.

A  takeoff pulley from the Stuart line is going to be modified and used on the Bolton engine. They suggest making the pulley from large bar stock, but this casting has so much character with its deep insets.

I would like to lighten the look of the flywheel quite a bit by reducing its OD. I remember when I was making the paper vertical steam engine model, the takeoff pulley was very wide and thin. A nice look I think.
Title: Re: Textile Mill Diorama
Post by: Ramon on May 06, 2018, 10:48:37 PM
Hello John - well I finally caught up and have been through all your images. It's looking truly 'special'  :ThumbsUp: I love those shots with the 'peek' of the boiler showing through the arch - this is going to be yet another fine display once completed for certain. That recessed door is (very) effective too  ;)

Incidentally I've built a number of crankshafts but have always made the shaft in two parts eliminating the need to hacksaw and machine the inner faces to clean up. Also, if your fits are right and you are using a high strength retainer (Loctite 638 -ish) you should be able to pin within an hour or so. If you pin from the end of the shaft rather than across - you still get two shear points but only one area to clean up  ;)

Keep up this fine work  :ThumbsUp:

Tug
Title: Re: Textile Mill Diorama
Post by: J.L. on May 07, 2018, 09:45:40 PM
Thanks Tug.
 
Cutting the arc or crown on a soft bronze or aluminum pulley is easy to do with this jig.  A cutting block is mounted on a bar with a hole in it at a predetermined radius to create a pivot point for the cutter. It cuts a symmetrical arc on the face of the pulley as you swing the cutting block back and forth and then slowly advance the cross slide to repeat the process.

But this jig was not robust enough to handle cast iron. I got lazy and tried to use it anyway. The finish on the pulley looks like the tread on my winter tires!   :embarassed:

But the arc is true and centred properly.  :)

Time to get out the files and emery cloth...


Title: Re: Textile Mill Diorama
Post by: J.L. on May 08, 2018, 12:20:35 PM
That's better...
Title: Re: Textile Mill Diorama
Post by: b.lindsey on May 08, 2018, 12:26:05 PM
That finished up very well John. Sometimes there is no substitute for elbow grease :)

Bill
Title: Re: Textile Mill Diorama
Post by: wagnmkr on May 08, 2018, 12:34:47 PM
Looking very good John ... that looks like a perfect profile for the belt drive.

Tom
Title: Re: Textile Mill Diorama
Post by: J.L. on May 08, 2018, 04:25:14 PM
Thanks Tom,

I always find it fascinating when watching a belt centre itself on a crowned surface. It just does.

Hi Bill,

Yes, elbow grease did the job. As a matter of fact, I may just file the arcs on the other softer line shaft aluminum pulleys.

I understand you have retired. Welcome to the club. I've been a member so long now, teaching was another life.  ;)

Cheers...John
Title: Re: Textile Mill Diorama
Post by: ddmckee54 on May 08, 2018, 07:06:44 PM
John:

Is that as thin as you are going to make the flanges, or are you going to turn the inside of the pulley too?  Since this is a power take-off wheel and not a flywheel it really doesn't need the mass.  You just don't want to go too thin and make it fragile.

Don
Title: Spring Pins/Solid Pins
Post by: J.L. on May 08, 2018, 08:28:29 PM
Don, I'm going to cut my losses and quit while I'm ahead with what I've got now. I agree about less mass required, but I like the look of the pulley as it stands now. Did you see the paper one above?

Don and others, I need some advice about whether to use spring pins or solid steel bar to pin the crankweb and crankshaft. The spring pins would put less percussive force and stress upon installation. Solid pins would leave a clean, almost invisible face. But hammering them concerns me.

The diameter is 1/8". Regardless of what happens the pins will be installed with Loctite 680 Retaining Compound. It is advertised as 'slip fit'. The spring pins would be more forgiving and more goop would go in with the pin. A tight, hammered fit would not take much compound in with it.

Thoughts?

John
Title: Re: Textile Mill Diorama
Post by: Jasonb on May 08, 2018, 08:31:33 PM
I always use solid. You don't need to go mad peining over the ends particularly if you loctite them in place just make sure the opposite side is well supported.
Title: Re: Textile Mill Diorama
Post by: b.lindsey on May 08, 2018, 08:32:01 PM
 Not quite yet John. Still have until the end of the month, but soon yes :D

Bill
Title: Re: Textile Mill Diorama
Post by: crueby on May 08, 2018, 09:03:34 PM
I always use solid. You don't need to go mad peining over the ends particularly if you loctite them in place just make sure the opposite side is well supported.
Agreed. Solid pin, loctite in place, plenty strong, and sanded or filed flush it hardly shows. Some of the loctite will get into the shaft joint, holds more that way too. For high load joint, a steel tapered pin is great, but it requires a special matching tapered reamer.
Title: Re: Textile Mill Diorama
Post by: Ramon on May 08, 2018, 09:14:09 PM
Hi John - you may find the start of this thread a help - http://www.modelenginemaker.com/index.php/topic,1660.0.html (http://www.modelenginemaker.com/index.php/topic,1660.0.html) - it's the info I put up on building a crank for the Mconie.

For an engine that isn't going to have to work for a living pinning isn't really that neccessary as high strength retainer will - providing the fits are correct sizes - be more than adequate for an engine that just ticks over. That said I do usually pin using a mild steel pin and just gently peen the top just sufficient to swell the very outer edge into the hole. I have intimated this before - it's worth repeating I guess. Don't deburr the hole in any way before Loctiting the pin in as no matter how well you finish it off there will always be a witness (short of re- machining) on filing to finish state. It should be invisible if you just leave the hole as drilled.

Personally I would not go down the roll pin route - totally unnecessary with retainer and could prove very ugly visually on what is a fine build to date.

Hope that helps some - Tug
Title: Re: Textile Mill Diorama
Post by: Larry Sw on May 08, 2018, 09:18:50 PM
Use your vise as a press.

Larry
Title: Re: Textile Mill Diorama
Post by: J.L. on May 09, 2018, 01:13:04 PM
Thank you all for indicating your preferred method of pinning the crankshaft and your helpful suggestions.

The pins are in and drying.

While this takes place, attention turns to putting another coat of Poly finish on the Southern Pine random width flooring that will laid in the shop.

Title: Re: Textile Mill Diorama
Post by: J.L. on May 09, 2018, 03:12:04 PM
I'm very glad I went with the suggested solid pins. A couple of them did reveal themselves when sanded flush, but these two came out nicely. Just a trace of the one on the right.

I've hesitated drilling the bearing block holes until now. The holes in the blocks are the tap size holes and can be used as templates for drilling once I get the crankshaft at 90 degrees to the centreline.

I'm sure that when the bearing block holes are enlarged after the holes in the pads are threaded, there will be enough wiggle room for alignment if we are off a tad.

Title: Mounting the Bearing Blocks
Post by: J.L. on May 09, 2018, 03:57:15 PM
So here is the set-up for drilling the tap holes into the base pads. The square indicates that the blocks (with the crankshaft) are parallel with their faces perpendicular to the sides of the bed.

I guess only time will tell when the connecting rod is hooked up whether everything will line up on centre. I don't have the patience to wait until all the parts are made and hooked up before mounting these blocks.  :slap:

Title: Studs
Post by: J.L. on May 09, 2018, 09:19:23 PM
I have been always envious of those who get the perfect amount of thread showing consistently above the nut.

I've tried to achieve this myself by limiting the amount of thread the nut can engage. The heads of scale model #10-32 bolts  have been cut off and the unthreaded portion of the bolt threaded the appropriate amount.

In effect, the stud with its washer becomes a bolt. The nut could be Loctited to seal the deal.

All of this is probably plain fare for the experts, but this approach is new to me.

P.S. I retouched my dirty thumbnail.

Title: Re: Textile Mill Diorama
Post by: J.L. on May 10, 2018, 04:17:31 PM
Time out for some flooring...
Title: The Crankshaft
Post by: J.L. on May 10, 2018, 10:12:06 PM
The through axle is gone. There will be no spinning cartwheels until I see the flywheel and the takeoff pulley running true.
Title: Re: Textile Mill Diorama
Post by: b.lindsey on May 11, 2018, 12:54:13 AM
The studs look good to me John, as does the progress on the flooring. Still following along.

Bill
Title: Re: Textile Mill Diorama
Post by: J.L. on May 11, 2018, 06:22:13 PM
Thanks Bill.

The crankshaft in its mounts...  :cartwheel:
Title: Re: Textile Mill Diorama
Post by: J.L. on May 11, 2018, 06:23:09 PM
The flywheel on the crankshaft...  :cartwheel:
Title: Re: Textile Mill Diorama
Post by: J.L. on May 11, 2018, 06:24:16 PM
The take-off pulley on the crankshaft...  :cartwheel:
Title: Re: Textile Mill Diorama
Post by: crueby on May 11, 2018, 06:26:09 PM
Excellent!!
Title: Re: Textile Mill Diorama
Post by: J.L. on May 11, 2018, 06:33:14 PM
Thanks Chris. Appreciated.

The original plans for the Bolton No.7 did not include any provision for a governor. The flywheel was designed to ride hard up against the left bearing. You can see that space has been provided here for a 1/4" governor pulley if one is to be designed.

The wider space between the right bearing and the take-off pulley is for two eccentrics; one to drive the valve rod and one to operate the feed pump.
Title: Re: Textile Mill Diorama
Post by: zeeprogrammer on May 11, 2018, 07:39:44 PM
I'm still following along John.  :popcorn: :popcorn:

Your threads are always inspirational and provide many dreams of future projects.
Title: Re: Textile Mill Diorama
Post by: b.lindsey on May 12, 2018, 01:19:20 AM
Beautiful John, as usual  :)

Bill
Title: Re: Textile Mill Diorama
Post by: J.L. on May 12, 2018, 02:41:24 PM
Thank you fellows. You keep me motivated.

Before I step into machining the cylinder, I thought I'd finish the flooring in the shop. The baseboards can't be placed until this last wall is in place.

Chris, you were asking me about the muntins and mullions earlier. I did not show a picture of the setup.

The 'glass' or plastic in this case, is scribed first. Then the bars are glued onto the plastic straddling the lines. Both sides of the window have to have the bars. Doing only one side makes the window look terrible.


Title: Re: Textile Mill Diorama
Post by: J.L. on May 13, 2018, 03:05:34 PM
The east wall of the shop allows things to be finished up in this room.
Title: Re: Textile Mill Diorama
Post by: J.L. on May 13, 2018, 03:08:01 PM
Those who have done trim carpentry know how the finishing touches really make a difference.

The first pic shows the flooring meeting the wall under the window; the second with baseboard just sitting up against the wall not even glued. But what a difference.

Title: Re: Textile Mill Diorama
Post by: J.L. on May 13, 2018, 03:10:15 PM
A final look at the flooring as seen through the door and the window in the engine room.
Title: Re: Textile Mill Diorama
Post by: Kim on May 13, 2018, 03:16:22 PM
Very nice looking floor, John!
And yes, the trim does make a huge difference, doesn't it?
Kim
Title: The Cylinder
Post by: J.L. on May 14, 2018, 12:15:01 AM
Thanks Kim.

So now we step into the cylinder. It is quite a large casting. The bore is 1 1/2" and the stroke will be 2 1/4".

I did not bore or face this cylinder and looking at the result, I am glad I had professionals with heavy equipment do it for me. 

I think I will start by bringing the cylinder ends to 2 3/8" diameter. Then I can make the front and rear cylinder covers.

You will note that I am not starting with drilling the ports or the steam passages. I will be working myself up to that fun later...  :???:
Title: Re: Textile Mill Diorama
Post by: b.lindsey on May 14, 2018, 01:37:08 AM
Very nice John, and yes, the baseboard trim adds a lot!!!

Bill
Title: Re: Textile Mill Diorama
Post by: J.L. on May 14, 2018, 01:09:53 PM
I agree Bill. Molding profiles that small on top of the baseboards are best done with specified model making machinery. I got the trim at a dollhouse supply outlet.

The cylinder on this mill engine is bolted down from underneath the baseplate with three studs and nuts. But in reading the manual, the cylinder is only attached after everything in the drive train is hooked up. Then it is bolted down onto the baseplate and the baseplate (with everything attached) is turned upside down to spot drill for the mounting studs. Sounds awkward.

So the slotted hole won't be used. But it might be a nice option if something has to be tweaked just a tad later.
 
Title: Pulley Blocks
Post by: J.L. on May 18, 2018, 04:05:38 PM
Didn't feel like stepping into heavy cylinder machining so I went to some lighter fare back in the boiler room to do some unfinished business.

Four brass pulley blocks with aluminum sheaves will be bolted under heavy beams to operate the dampers at the back of the boiler. They will be painted black.
Title: Re: Textile Mill Diorama
Post by: J.L. on May 19, 2018, 04:00:38 PM
And here is one of the blocks bolted to a beam. Counterweights were used to raise or lower the dampers.
Title: Shovelling Coal
Post by: J.L. on May 19, 2018, 04:10:27 PM
While I am in the boiler room, I am thinking of how coal was shovelled into the boilers. I remember seeing a vintage shot of men standing in front of the boilers with a pile of rocks arranged in front of them that held a pile of coal.

I think fireman drove their coal shovels under the pile to scoop up coal; turn and lift it into the open door of the boiler. I do not think they shovelled coal out of a wheelbarrow. The wheelbarrow was used to dump the coal onto the floor.

Correct me if I'm wrong. The pile of coal would be quite close to the boiler to save steps and allow for a natural movement of the upper body as the firemen turned.

With this in mind I found some leftover handmade bricks and dry fitted a backstop for a pile of coal. I think you can buy scale model coal in small quantities in hobby stores.

Food for thought...
Title: Re: Textile Mill Diorama
Post by: gbritnell on May 19, 2018, 04:24:09 PM
Still following along John. Just outstanding work! I like how you think about the little things like where the fireman would stand to shovel coal into the boiler.
gbritnell
Title: Re: Textile Mill Diorama
Post by: Tennessee Whiskey on May 19, 2018, 08:25:53 PM
J.L., just fabulous attention to the details. I remember in an old schoolhouse boiler room about the same coal ďcorralĒ youíve shown, however, I think the back wall was a bit taller and the side walls came out a little farther. Really enjoying this one.

Cletus
Title: Re: Textile Mill Diorama
Post by: Roger B on May 20, 2018, 08:09:26 AM
Splendid attention to detail as ever  :praise2:  :praise2:  :wine1: Still following along and enjoying the pictures  :)
Title: Re: Textile Mill Diorama
Post by: Ian S C on May 20, 2018, 01:05:07 PM
I wanted coal for a little traction engine I built for a friend, I got some fine gravel, washed it, glued it in place and painted it black.
Ian S C
         
Title: Re: Textile Mill Diorama
Post by: Steamer5 on May 20, 2018, 03:20:48 PM
Hi Ian,
 Many years ago I help a mate set up a HO gauge layout. We wanted a coal pile so off to the ME club grab some coal fines sieved to get the size we wanted.
Placed a pile were required & watered down some PVA glue, carefully applied in several goes the coal was stuck down & had a bit of gloss to boot.

Cheers Kerrin
Title: Re: Textile Mill Diorama
Post by: J.L. on May 21, 2018, 01:39:29 PM
Thank you gentlemen for the kind comments. It is good to have you peeking over my shoulder.

Hi Cletus,
I added a brick to the width of the crib and put another row on top. Thanks for the input.

I remember when I lived in New Liskeard as a child, we had a coal chute at the side of the house with a little door. Dad shovelled the coal from the walled bunker in the basement into the furnace. I remember his picking out clinkers often.

I should have gotten out of the boiler room! I fully intended to get back to machining the front and back covers for the cylinder, but got caught up in more modelling possibilities in this room.

The first shot is usually a tragic one after devastating fires. The only thing left standing is the chimney. But here in our boier room, it is the beginning of a gable roof. I think the cylinder is going to be waiting until June.  :Lol:

I really have begun to understand the potential of a milling machine for modelling wooden structures. In the second photo, a bird's mouth is being cut in thirteen rafters. Several passes with the milling cutter and the notches are done.  :D
Title: Re: Textile Mill Diorama
Post by: Larry Sw on May 21, 2018, 06:16:47 PM
You mean you aren't using a tiny little framing square and crosscut saw to lay out the end cuts and bird mouths ?  :>)

Larry
Title: Re: Textile Mill Diorama
Post by: J.L. on May 21, 2018, 08:31:50 PM
Hi Larry,
Sounds as though you know something about rafter framing. Remember the brass stops you could set on your framing square to set the rise and run? With our trusses today, those are long lost skills.
Title: Re: Textile Mill Diorama
Post by: Larry Sw on May 21, 2018, 09:18:31 PM
I've been trying to attach a pic of my Starrett No. 111 Stair Gage Fixtures and
my copy of the 2 volume set of:   Practical Uses of the Steel Square by
Fred T. Hodgson  copyright 1903.
But never having posted any photos here before can't quite figure it out now.

Larry

(http://i266.photobucket.com/albums/ii259/Larry_Swearingen/Misc/DSCN1908_zpsp4qo65r8.jpg) (http://s266.photobucket.com/user/Larry_Swearingen/media/Misc/DSCN1908_zpsp4qo65r8.jpg.html)
Title: Re: Textile Mill Diorama
Post by: J.L. on May 21, 2018, 10:17:16 PM
Lots of help available here for figuring out the photo thing Larry.

Welcome to the site.

Hi Ian,
I forgot to thank you for your idea of painting fine gravel to represent coal.
Brilliant.
Title: Re: Textile Mill Diorama
Post by: Ian S C on May 22, 2018, 03:27:57 AM
Using coal might be ok. but it breaks down as it oxidises over time, and the gravel just happened to be there at the moment. The gravel used was about 1/8" across, crushed not smooth round stuff. Ian S C
Title: Re: Textile Mill Diorama
Post by: J.L. on May 22, 2018, 01:10:37 PM
Collar ties...

Looks as though one rafter fell a bit short against the ridge pole... :embarassed:
Title: Re: Textile Mill Diorama
Post by: J.L. on May 25, 2018, 08:34:27 PM
The framing of the main part of the engine house is complete.
In the second photo, you can see the flywheel and the crank of the mill engine in the engine room and the coal crib in front of the boier.
Title: Re: Textile Mill Diorama
Post by: J.L. on May 25, 2018, 08:36:05 PM
As to the coal, here it is.

If you get cold this winter, I have a bag of milled coal...


Title: Re: Textile Mill Diorama
Post by: crueby on May 25, 2018, 09:57:26 PM
Enough coal in model there to pop a few kernels of popcorn while watching the build...!
 :popcorn: :popcorn: :popcorn:
Title: Re: Textile Mill Diorama
Post by: J.L. on May 25, 2018, 10:13:34 PM
Hi Chris,

You made my day.  I needed that!  :cheers:

Shake and I'm sure slate shingles used board underlayment that was spaced apart once they had left the eave section. I would think they were close together there for ice and snow.

Title: Re: Textile Mill Diorama
Post by: b.lindsey on May 26, 2018, 12:50:50 AM
Things are coming along well John. Still following along just quietly.

Bill
Title: The steam Whistle
Post by: J.L. on May 26, 2018, 05:01:15 PM
Good to know Bill.

The steam whistle is now hooked up. You can see the chain coming from the serpentine lever of the whistle down and over a steel pulley.
Title: Re: Textile Mill Diorama
Post by: b.lindsey on May 26, 2018, 06:12:19 PM
As with your other dioramas John, its hard sometimes to tell the difference between looking at the model and the feeling of being in the real boiler room. That is a testament to your skills and attention to details. Love the "sunlight" shining through the roof!!!

Bill
Title: Re: Textile Mill Diorama
Post by: scc on May 26, 2018, 08:55:53 PM
It gets better with every "episode". :popcorn:
Title: Re: Textile Mill Diorama
Post by: wagnmkr on May 26, 2018, 10:34:14 PM
...And it all looks even better in person. Almost time for another visit John.

Cheers

Tom
Title: Re: Textile Mill Diorama
Post by: zeeprogrammer on May 26, 2018, 11:06:22 PM
As with your other dioramas John, its hard sometimes to tell the difference between looking at the model and the feeling of being in the real boiler room. That is a testament to your skills and attention to details. Love the "sunlight" shining through the roof!!!

Bill put it very well.

 :popcorn: :popcorn:
Title: Re: Textile Mill Diorama
Post by: J.L. on May 27, 2018, 02:42:41 PM
Thank you all for your kind comments and support.

I promise I will be out of the boiler room and back at some metal work by the end of the week.

This morning I put a ladder up against the roof and had my wife hand me up the camera. In the first shot, you can see my boots and my sillouette as I take a picture of a low slope 'saddle' that was placed up against the chimney to divert the water from running down the hip roof and pooling at the join of roof and brick. I had never heard of this term before, but the roofer who was re-roofing the house suggested it be installed. The term seems appropriate.

Why this shot? Next post.
Title: Re: Textile Mill Diorama
Post by: J.L. on May 27, 2018, 03:05:11 PM
The steam pipe from the boiler has to leave the boiler house high in the rafters and enter the engine room to avoid the fire door track. The pipe's  exact location can not yet be determined,  but it would be exposed to the elements in passig from boiler house to mill.

It will be covered with a little gable like roof or saddle.

The gray templates in the setup will fall away when the saddle is roofed. Just like my house, the saddle is built on the roof rather than being previously framed.  I'll cut an  opening in the roof when everything is finished outside.
Title: Re: Textile Mill Diorama
Post by: J.L. on May 27, 2018, 08:48:38 PM
Here's the reason for all this work with the little gable roof (first photo). This 5/16" NPT elbow will receive the steam pipe that goes through the gable.

You can see in the second photo, that probably just a hole can be drilled through the firewall.
 
Title: Re: Textile Mill Diorama
Post by: J.L. on May 31, 2018, 08:02:16 PM
Now we can move on knowing the location of where the steam pipe will come through the firewall.

The fire door track is in place on the other side of the wall. Distance above it has to be considered to accommodate the rolling hardware.

The pencil in the third photo indicates the approximate location of the hole. It looks as though the steam pipe will enter under the beams and rafters of the floor above.   :)

Title: The Steam Pipe
Post by: J.L. on June 01, 2018, 02:51:29 PM
Here are a series of photos showing the steam pipe fitters at work.

The next job will be to wrap the pipes and provide a union and a plug to await the completion of the valve chest on the engine.

Title: Re: Textile Mill Diorama
Post by: J.L. on June 01, 2018, 08:31:37 PM
The steam pipe passing through the firewall...
Title: The Metal Clad Fire Door
Post by: J.L. on June 01, 2018, 08:46:08 PM
Industrial firedoors were traditionally clad in metal.  In looking around for something easy to use, I hit upon the idea of using aluminum foil tape - the type that is often used to seal ductwork. It is easy to cut and best of all, self-adhesive.

My six foot firedoor used one hundred fifteen little squares of metal to cover both sides.

Forgive me if I neglected to nail each panel in place...

P.S. At one point, I was considering using a tracing wheel (a dressmaker's spurred wheel for transferring patterns) and rolling it along each panel strip. But then I came to my senses.

Title: The Fire Door
Post by: J.L. on June 01, 2018, 08:49:56 PM
Some hardware details...
Title: Re: Textile Mill Diorama
Post by: J.L. on June 01, 2018, 09:01:05 PM
This brings to a close work in the boiler room.

If anyone finds a 1/12 scale coal shovel with a wooden handle and a metal/wood 'D' grip on the internet, let me know. I may have to modify a coal scuttle shovel by removing the short handle and making it into a proper coal shovel.


Title: Re: Textile Mill Diorama
Post by: b.lindsey on June 01, 2018, 09:16:43 PM
John, this is looking very nice. Looks like all the piping lined up well too and the fire door looks great.

Bill
Title: Re: Textile Mill Diorama
Post by: zeeprogrammer on June 01, 2018, 09:35:03 PM
This brings to a close work in the boiler room.

A brand new boiler room closed for business.  :lolb:

I had noticed the door hangers in an earlier picture.
I may have missed you talking about such hardware.
How were they made and what is the size of the bolts.

Such exceptional work!  :ThumbsUp:
Title: Re: Textile Mill Diorama
Post by: J.L. on June 01, 2018, 11:24:05 PM
Hi Carl,

Thanks.

No, I did not detail the making of the fire door hangers.

They were milled from solid 3/8" x 1/2" brass stock. The arcs on the top and bottom of the hangers were shaped on a 1 x 24" belt sander. The track wheels were made from 1/2" aluminum rod. The axles are just #2-56 steel bolts threaded into the back of the hangers.

Thanks for asking.

Title: Re: Textile Mill Diorama
Post by: gbritnell on June 02, 2018, 12:23:46 AM
Hi John,
Many years ago when I made the Case water wagon for my 1" Case traction engine I made a coal shovel exactly like you're talking about. I made it from 2 pieces, the scoop and the round tapered piece that the handle goes into. I silver soldered them together. The scoop was shaped over a hardwood former after being annealed. The handle is made from Maple.
gbritnell
Title: Re: Textile Mill Diorama
Post by: J.L. on June 02, 2018, 02:36:53 AM
Hello George.

Beautiful model. Thank you for showing the shovel with the wagon.

That seems to be the trick - to get the shovel shaped properly. I see how you would shape the metal scoop section over a hardwood former after annealing the metal, but I like the way you blended the tapered tubular section that receives the wooden handle. That, I would think would be the difficult part. Perhaps it was filed after soldering to have it blend in so smoothly?

Thanks for the inspiration.

John
 
Title: Re: Textile Mill Diorama
Post by: J.L. on June 02, 2018, 05:57:53 PM
Time to get that cylinder under way.

I had help with the end caps so the rest is up to me. I've decided to leave the casting texture on the cap. Only the rim has been turned.

To drill the 12 mounting holes, Ernest Winter suggested making a pre-drilled jig to place over the covers. It sounded like a lot of work to make the jig, so I've opted to use the rotary table. The only way I could mount the cap in a small 3-jaw chuck was to mount it on a Unimat indexing head.

In these photos, both the rotary table and the chuck have been trued to a pin projectig out of a collet chuck in the quill.

Title: Re: Textile Mill Diorama
Post by: b.lindsey on June 02, 2018, 07:22:39 PM
That should work well John. And certainly easier than making a jig.

Bill
Title: Re: Textile Mill Diorama
Post by: J.L. on June 02, 2018, 09:20:40 PM
Yes Bill. Both front and back cover plates can be drilled with one setup.

However, this setup is fine for lightly centering the hole locations, but I would not want to drill the #30 holes with this arrangement. There is only a 1/16" register or spigot holding the covers in the little 3-jaw chuck.

I intend to drill the holes down into a sacrificial hardwood block directly on the milling table.

Title: Re: Textile Mill Diorama
Post by: wagnmkr on June 02, 2018, 10:26:01 PM
Glad you found the indexing head John ... that made quick work of the marking out.

Cheers

Tom
Title: Re: Textile Mill Diorama
Post by: J.L. on June 03, 2018, 01:51:08 PM
Hi Tom,

Yes, rotating the table's handle 30 degrees at a go was a lot easier.

The first photo shows the front cover firmly supported on the milling table for drilling.

The second photo shows the front cover sitting on O.B. Bolton's drawing. Notice that I have purposefully rotated my holes. Ernst Winter makes quite a point about the drawing's hole location not being very prototypical of how it was done traditionally. He suggests rotating the holes 'off centre' half a pitch - in my case 15 degrees.

I think I know why. It has to do with the rear cover. I think they wanted the studs to straddle the stuffing box projection.

So, once a vertial line was drawn through the boss, the rotary table was advanced 15 degrees and a centre locating hole was drilled. Then the rotary table was reset to 0 and everything was offset the equal amount from that first hole.


Title: Re: Textile Mill Diorama
Post by: J.L. on June 03, 2018, 10:13:21 PM
It was suggested that one bolt hole in the cylinder be drilled, threaded and the cover secured before the others were spot drilled.

That is the case here. It looks as though the cylinder is clamped in the vice. It is not. It is simply sitting on a large parallel and allowed to float to let the drill centre itself in the remaining holes.

BTW, I found another reason why the bolts are off-set. In the second photo, you can see that they will straddle the drain cock holes as well.  ;)
Title: Re: Textile Mill Diorama
Post by: J.L. on June 04, 2018, 10:50:22 AM
Threading fun...

1. Indexing

2. Drilling tap holes

3. Threading with a bottoming #5-40 tap
Title: Re: Textile Mill Diorama
Post by: J.L. on June 04, 2018, 12:51:37 PM
An editing note here.

I mentioned that it was suggested that one hole be threaded and the cover be fasened with a bolt before the other eleven holes were spot centred.

Here is testament that holding small work rather than clamping it firmly in the vice is a good practice. With only one bolt fastening the cover, I could feel the cover moving ever so slightly as the twist drill end was touching the cylinder to spot the holes.

A second hole was threaded and bolted in place opposite the first one. The vibration disappeared.  Now I would not have felt that if the cylinder was clamped tightly in the vice.

I guess sensory feedback is just as important for drilling small locating holes through templates as tapping small holes.

John
Title: Re: Textile Mill Diorama
Post by: J.L. on June 04, 2018, 06:31:04 PM
While in the hole drilling mood, I drilled and tapped two #10-40 holes for the cylinder's drain cocks. They are not cheap, but they do add so much to the look of the cylinder.

Also, the piston gland was drilled and reamed 1/4" inch for the piston rod.

Title: Re: Textile Mill Diorama
Post by: J.L. on June 05, 2018, 10:39:44 PM
The piston gland...

A visit to the local hydraulic supply store yielded a  perfect o-ring for the stuffing box.

Title: Re: Textile Mill Diorama
Post by: b.lindsey on June 05, 2018, 10:47:01 PM
Some more nice progress John. I hadn't realized there were that many holes in the covers but will make the finished engine all the more prototypical .

Bill
Title: Re: Textile Mill Diorama
Post by: Admiral_dk on June 05, 2018, 10:52:14 PM
Looks very realistic like the boiler room :praise2: - I particularly enjoyed the roofing details, that really could convince me that it was a full size place.

Do almost not dare interrupting the master builder ....  ;) .... but then again I think you'll enjoy some comments, even if they aren't the most interesting.
Title: Re: Textile Mill Diorama
Post by: ddmckee54 on June 06, 2018, 08:48:02 PM
I was going to say that you need to be careful of some o-rings around steam.  But this isn't going to run on steam is it.

Don
Title: Re: Textile Mill Diorama
Post by: J.L. on June 07, 2018, 10:49:09 AM
Thank you for the kind words gentlemen.

You are right Don. The diorama is designed for compressed air. The air passes through the boiler and into the engine room.
Title: Re: Textile Mill Diorama
Post by: J.L. on June 10, 2018, 06:38:48 PM
The slide bars for this engine were machined out of steel bar stock.

I hate milling steel!

Title: The Slide Bars
Post by: J.L. on June 11, 2018, 10:29:02 AM
The slide bars are complete but will have to wait some time until fastened to their pad.
Title: Re: Textile Mill Diorama
Post by: wagnmkr on June 11, 2018, 11:06:45 AM
Looking good John.

Cheers

Tom
Title: A Day Off
Post by: J.L. on June 11, 2018, 10:00:07 PM
Thanks Tom.

Before I get into some heavy cylinder work, I thought I'd take the day and hang a door. The east wall of the engine room has been left off for months. I thought it would be easier to work on the engine with it removed.

But as you can see in the first photo, having it on won't affect access to the engine.

The door has been altered to an interior one. To keep the viewer from feeling he were falling off the end of the earth when opening that door, a little 5/8" bit of flooring has been added. That actually would represent stepping into the mill portion of the factory on the first floor.

Title: Re: A Day Off
Post by: zeeprogrammer on June 11, 2018, 11:07:16 PM
The door has been altered to an interior one. To keep the viewer from feeling he were falling off the end of the earth when opening that door, a little 5/8" bit of flooring has been added. That actually would represent stepping into the mill portion of the factory on the first floor.

Nice touch. Us amateurs would pull a Beetlejuice.
Title: Re: Textile Mill Diorama
Post by: J.L. on June 12, 2018, 06:14:19 PM
Carl, I discovered a design flaw in this wall.

The walls rise above the level of the first floor, but the east wall is just a partition. It should stop at the joist level.

This meant rebuilding the quoin on the corner and cutting the partition wall down.

I guesss that cylinder work will have to wait another day...

Title: Re: Textile Mill Diorama
Post by: mklotz on June 12, 2018, 06:47:01 PM
Damn, John, not only a beautifully done build thread but I get to learn all sorts of Scrabble words* as well.

I already knew "quoin" as the keystone in an arch or the angled block of wood used under the breech of a cannon to set its elevation angle, but now I know it's the external angle of a wall as well.

Were you an architect at some point in your life?

--
* my favorite is "qiviut",  the underwool of the arctic musk ox.  Note the absence of a 'u' after the 'q'.
Title: Re: Textile Mill Diorama
Post by: J.L. on June 12, 2018, 08:43:26 PM
Hi Marv,

Thanks for the nic comment re the thread.

No, I learned many architecctural terms from architectural card modelling. It was my passion before model engineering.

You've given me a nice segue into showing some of my buildings. I have shelves filled with them downstaris.

Here's a flavour of some of them...

There are just too many to feature here.
Title: Re: Textile Mill Diorama
Post by: mklotz on June 12, 2018, 09:30:56 PM
Beautiful work all.  I recognize Neuschwannstein and Le Puy-en-Vlay (of the many steps).  The KŲln Dom is a masterpiece; those buttresses must have taken forever to construct.

I presume the instructions for assembling these models refer to the construction details by their proper architectural terms.  As a kid, I learned a lot of sailing ship terminology by building ship models.  (I especially remember an Italian kit that came with genuine cats' heads modeled on the ends of the miniature catheads.  I was very pleased.)
Title: Re: Textile Mill Diorama
Post by: J.L. on June 12, 2018, 10:28:57 PM
Hi Marv,

I think our interests parallel each other.

Most of my models are preserved in custom built cases and secured with velcro strips.

Do you recognize this second building?  Hint: Mozart

Title: Re: Textile Mill Diorama
Post by: zeeprogrammer on June 12, 2018, 10:53:09 PM
@ John: I remember you talking about the paper models before.
I don't remember if you created/printed them or if you got them as kits.
Seems I remember you providing a link to kits. Would you mind posting again or sending me a PM?
I wonder if there's one for Lichtenstein. I can't tell if you had one. I recall it being on a cliff.
Thanks.

Beautiful work. Your threads always remind me of the things I wanted to do as a kid.
Title: Re: Textile Mill Diorama
Post by: J.L. on June 13, 2018, 01:27:20 AM
Hi Carl,

Thanks for the interest. I sent you a PM with details of the model and the flyover.

Here are the photos.
Title: The Partition
Post by: J.L. on June 13, 2018, 02:39:13 PM
The east wall of the boiler room is complete. It will now allow  beams to sit on it later, thus becoming a load bearing partition.

The third picture puts us back on track with the engine.

When I was given the 3/16" x 1 1/2" o-ring, the lad slipped a second one in my hand. I think I can cut that second one with one slit to open it. It will then become a template for the width and depth of the groove in the piston head leaving the other one unmarked by trying to dig it out after each trial.
Title: The Piston
Post by: J.L. on June 14, 2018, 03:34:27 PM
The piston rod was threaded using the smooth walled collet chuck and a tailstock die holder.

The chucks were changed and the piston material (cast iron) was chucked and turned. The extra o-ring I mentioned earlier was cut open and used for testing the width and depth of the groove.

About half way through the job...  :)

 
Title: Opinion
Post by: J.L. on June 14, 2018, 09:12:45 PM
Gentlemen,

I would like to have your opinion on the suitability of the 0-ring I hae been using to test the width and depth of the groove as the permanent 0-ring.

It closes to an invisible gap as it stands now. The pencil is pointing to the joint.

When the cylinder is slid onto this piston, there is a pleasing tension. I wonder if this slit 0-ring might be a good thing to create allowances. It may very well be, at this point,  allowing for some compression in size.

The understanding is that this is an air pressure situation, not steam.

Your thoughts?

John
Title: Re: Textile Mill Diorama
Post by: J.L. on June 15, 2018, 11:01:09 PM
Okay... moving on.

Ernest Winter suggested in his 1992 construction notes that the piston rod be threaded only 9/32" unlike the full witdth of the piston  - 9/16".

I am holding the previously cut rod.

His suggestion was to drill the entire 9/16" all the way through with a 7/32" drill, but back off and ream the first 9/32" to the piston rod diameter which is 1/4". Then thread the remaining 9/32".

In effect, he is creating a rod that passes into the piston shouldering itself and then threading itself on to the full 9/16".

The photos show the setup to wind in the pistorn rod with a chuck in the headstock and a chuck in the tailstock.

It will be interesting to see the result. Note that the piston is still attached to its chucking mass in the headstock.
Title: Re: Textile Mill Diorama
Post by: b.lindsey on June 15, 2018, 11:44:23 PM
John, as for the split o-ring, if you are pleased with how it feels and with the understanding that it will be running on air only, I would sure be tempted to give it a try. Does it feel a lot different if you use the non-split o-ring? I think most would say a full o-ring would be best, but a little more tedious to get to fit just right. Worst case...if the split one doesn't work or wears prematurely, you can always go back to the full o-ring as plan "B".

Bill
Title: Re: Textile Mill Diorama
Post by: J.L. on June 16, 2018, 02:02:55 PM
I agree Bill. That second 0-ring, if not used will be hanging on a hook in the engine room.  ;)

Photo 1:  Success

Photo 2 & 3: The piston was manually cut off the lathe with a hacksaw, turned around and mounted for facing.

Photo 4:  Oops. The groove was not deep enough for the 0-ring to slide in the cylinder's bore. On Stuart's Victoria, I remember cutting the groove too deep and having to fill the bottom of the groove with narrow brass shims. So I guess I was a bit gun shy when turning this one. So the pistorn was remounted in the collet chuck by its piston rod and is set for a deeper grooving cut with the parting tool.
Title: Re: Textile Mill Diorama
Post by: b.lindsey on June 16, 2018, 02:47:41 PM
Far better to sneak up on the diameter you need than to have to shim it John. Takes a bit or trial and error but definitely the way to go.

Bill
Title: Re: Textile Mill Diorama
Post by: J.L. on June 16, 2018, 02:54:41 PM
Right you are Bill.

I think I have it! The proof of the pudding will be to see if the piston and its rod are concentric with the gland in the end cover and will operate nicely.

If I am correct, there is a natural amount of resistance to operating the piston rod by hand. I guess that's where a heavy flywheel and air pressure come into play.

So, I guess resistance to expected easy sliding motion can be misleading to a novices like me.

John
Title: Re: Textile Mill Diorama
Post by: Jasonb on June 16, 2018, 06:41:19 PM
Bit late to this John but there are published groove sizes for O rings both for commercial applications as well as model ones, the model sizes do not compress the ring any where near as much so you still get a seal but far less friction.

A nominal 3/16" section ring is actually 0.210" and the groove for that should be cut  0.186" deep and 0.281" wide this allows the ring to expand sideways like a football when it is compressed into the cylinder.
Title: Re: Textile Mill Diorama
Post by: J.L. on June 16, 2018, 06:56:54 PM
Thank you Jason.

That was the information I was looking for. I have a run of the mill 0-ring given to me free gratis from a hydrauic shop.

I like your compression comparison of the sideways expansion to a that of a squished football.

I've learned something today. If the piston does not behave, I have a plan of action.

Thanks,
John
Title: The Steam Ports
Post by: J.L. on June 16, 2018, 09:10:46 PM
Now we get serious.

The pencil lines are drawn over the scribed line just to show up in the photo. The exhaust port in the middle is 1/4" x 5/8". The two side ports are 1/8" x 5/8" with a 1/8" web between each one.

The construction notes suggest starting by using a sharp 3/16" end mill and locate it in the centre of the middle port face using the marked out lines for reference and plunging it in to a depth of 5/8".

Now I've never done this plunging type of cut with an end mill. Any problems to anticipate here?  :shrug:

John
Title: Re: Textile Mill Diorama
Post by: crueby on June 16, 2018, 09:36:59 PM
As long as you have a center-cut style end mill, that should work - you can tell if there is no gap in the ends of the flutes at the end. Or make a test in some scrap.
Sometimes you will still get a little chatter on the plunge cut - you could always drill a hole with a regular drill bit just a little smaller than the mill diameter. A lot depends on how rigid your mill is, if it will chatter and give a rough hole on a plunge cut. If your end mill is not the center-cut style, definitely need to drill the pilot hole first.
Title: Re: Textile Mill Diorama
Post by: J.L. on June 16, 2018, 10:22:09 PM
Thank you Chris. I understand.

I think if you use a twist drill first, you have to back off early and not let the drill go to its depth - it has an angle on the end that deepens the hole. The whole point of using a milling cutter is to get a flat bottomed hole to an exact depth - if the flutes of the cutter wlll let you go down that far.

Also, there is a suggestion that the side ports (1/8") be chain drilled before using a milling slot cutter.  I guess getting rid of some of that metal makes the milling cutter's work easier. It's very small (3/32"). I've had some break.

It is not advised to use a 1/4" or a 1/8" drill to make these holes. A smaller hole is suggested so that you can snuggle up to the scribed lines with more precision with milling cutters.

Intereting stuff. Thanks for the advice guys. Keep it coming.

John


Title: Re: Textile Mill Diorama
Post by: crueby on June 16, 2018, 10:27:32 PM
For the ports its not that important that the bottom of the hole be square, just to be deep enough to intersect the cross hole, but finishing the depth with the end mill works fine as long as it is center cutting, otherwise it just rubs and jams.

Chain drilling definitely makes the cutter's job easier, especially in steel - using a smaller drill for that is best as you say. Note that if you do not chain drill, and make a pass with the end mill through solid stock, the small size mills can flex a little and pull to the side as the flutes grab - best to use a smaller size there as well and get to the finished line in light one-side passes.
Sure you will get it - if any worries, make a test set in a bit of scrap bar to work out the sequence.
 :popcorn:
Title: Re: Textile Mill Diorama
Post by: Jasonb on June 17, 2018, 07:16:31 AM
As your engine is not going to do any heavy work why not just drill 3 or 4 1/8" holes for the inlets which give a bit of metal between the holes, three 3/16" drilled holes for the exhaust and then with an 1/8" milling cutter just mill out a shallow rectangular pocket for the three ports.
Title: Re: Textile Mill Diorama
Post by: mklotz on June 17, 2018, 03:14:22 PM
Thank you Chris. I understand.

I think if you use a twist drill first, you have to back off early and not let the drill go to its depth - it has an angle on the end that deepens the hole. The whole point of using a milling cutter is to get a flat bottomed hole to an exact depth - if the flutes of the cutter wlll let you go down that far.

How early do you need to back off?

A bit of trig will show that that value, x, is given by:

x =  (d/2) / tan (a/2)

where:

d = drill diameter
a = included angle of drill tip

Most drills are sharpened such that a = 118 deg, so this simplifies to:

x = 0.300 * d
Title: Re: Textile Mill Diorama
Post by: Jasonb on June 17, 2018, 04:44:32 PM
Easier to just touch the drill tip on the work, zero your depth scale and just drill to the required depth shown on drawing.
Title: Re: Textile Mill Diorama
Post by: J.L. on June 17, 2018, 11:58:09 PM
Thanks for all the input gentlemen.

Marv, where do you come up with that math? That just flew over my head.  :o

The deed is done. Jason and Chris, both your options were used; undersized starter holes, milling slot undersized, then on one side only to expand.

I finished the 1/8" slots with a 1/8" slotting drill (two flute).

Now for the steam passages...


 
Title: Re: Textile Mill Diorama
Post by: crueby on June 18, 2018, 12:03:07 AM
Looks great - nice crisp long edges, that is very important for the valves.

 :ThumbsUp:    :popcorn:
Title: Where's the Meat?
Post by: J.L. on June 18, 2018, 10:06:03 PM
Thanks Chris.

I spent quite a bit of time today making a brass flange for the outlet pipe from scratch.

I assume such a deep void was cast in the cylinder on both sides to save metal. Obviously, a hole was intended to be drilled and threaded right into the cylinder.

But Ernest Winter casually mentioned and I quote;

   ďIf a more authentic flanged joint is preferred, the side of the cylinder casting will need to be milled flat [for the exhaust pipe flange]Ē.

Interesting.

The exhaust hole has to be fairly low to meet the bottom of the 5/8" centre port. There is no metal for such a flange as is seen in the third photo. :shrug:

So this large void will have to be filled with epoxy resin and allowed to harden in layers to bring a surface flush with the cylinder wall.  Hopefully, it will hold threads for the flange and the brass bands for the cladding.

I see this as a casting oversight. More meat should have been left on the top surface for an exhaust flange option.
 
Title: Re: Textile Mill Diorama
Post by: wagnmkr on June 18, 2018, 10:40:46 PM
John, in my mind, JB weld would be much stronger and it is meant to be drilled and threaded.

Tom
Title: Re: Textile Mill Diorama
Post by: Ramon on June 19, 2018, 06:29:45 AM
Hi John - up early and waiting for my mate before our weekly jaunt round the common.

Just caught up with your latest progress - my word you have been busy  :ThumbsUp:

Re the valve outlet fitting I can see what you mean by the casting being deep but you do not have to have the outlet hole meeting the exhaust cavity at the very bottom - indeed as long as it *does not break the valve surface it can be as close to that surface as you want* - doing that may give you the area you need to bolt your flange on. Failing that I would agree with Tom on using JB Weld. If you do (and I would advise using the standard type and not the fast set type) let it sit for an hour or so after mixing before applying it to the cylinder. JB tends to be a bit runny and will slump if applied straight away. You can also mix colloidal silica (readily available from epoxy resin suppliers) to thicken it to 'stay where it is' without affecting it's strength.

If you are going to machine and drill and tap it I would leave it a good two days to really harden out before doing so.

Hope that's of use to you - stunning work so far, keep it coming  :ThumbsUp: :ThumbsUp:

Regards - Tug

Edit - let me rephrase that. *If the outlet flange you have made does not break the valve face line then you can move your outlet flange toward that face as close as you want.* That may give you a wider cast area to D/T for the flange
Title: Re: Textile Mill Diorama
Post by: J.L. on June 19, 2018, 10:36:26 AM
Hi Tom.

JB Weld it is. And thanks for the tip Tug on just the standard type and letting it cure well.

Tug, I know what you are saying about mounting the valve higher on that sharp 'v' face. It would let the two stud holes on either side of the boss see metal, but since I'm going to clad the cylinder, a clean straight edge will be a good starting point for the first board - rather than having to shape wood around that deep void. A deeper hole will also stay away from those 1/8" steam passage holes coming up from the edges of the cylinder to their ports.

Good thought nevertheless Tug. Thanks.

Cheers...John
Title: Re: Textile Mill Diorama
Post by: john mills on June 19, 2018, 11:58:40 AM
hi john
The ports look good ,you worked out how to machine them .
For the flange i would drill and tap the hole as for a screwed in pipe but turned the bose you have on the flange like a sleeve with a step ,bored the flange with a plain hole then screwed the sleeve to the cylinder holding the flange in position. the flange can have holes drilled and tapped for studs with nuts as required . Then space can be filled as required to support the lagging.
Title: Re: Textile Mill Diorama
Post by: J.L. on June 19, 2018, 01:43:43 PM
Thanks John.
I'll stay on track with filling the void. The first layer is hardening nicely. The 1/4" exhaust hole has also been drilled. No broken drill! Let's hope I'm that lucky when the steam passages are bored.

I don't want to disturb things until several operations are complete with the cylinder in the vice now. I have to purchase new JB Weld anyway. So the milling machine is out of action for other operations for awhile.

I'm happy with that. I think I'll put shingles on half of the boiler roof!  ;)
Title: Re: Textile Mill Diorama
Post by: Jasonb on June 19, 2018, 01:53:59 PM
John, you may still have problems when drilling the stud holes as the drill will want to swerve off into the softer JBWeld, A dummy pair of studs and a screwed in flange like John suggests may be better.
Title: Re: Textile Mill Diorama
Post by: J.L. on June 19, 2018, 02:24:27 PM
Jason, you make a good point about the drill wandering into the softer material. The dummy studs and nut make perfect sense, but I am not yet sure how to attach the flange. The 1/4" hole in the valve face of the cylinder would have to opened up to take a 5/16" shouldered hole. Then a smooth sleeve could be inserted into that smooth hole and extended proud of the milled face 1/16" to centre the threaded 5/16" NPT threaded hole in the flange.

I am working with tapered MTP Threads here. Only straight threads would work as John suggested.

We've got time to think this one through. The flange is basically cosmetic. The flange could simply be CA glued in place with its dummy fasteners. The sleeve would be necessary though for that.
Title: Re: Textile Mill Diorama
Post by: J.L. on June 19, 2018, 03:15:17 PM
Hi John,
Thanks for the suggestion of threading into the cast iron. Unfortunately, it's difficult to use tapered tap and dies to do the job. If the threads were 5/16" straight, you could run right through the flange into the iron.

But you have given me the idea of creating a smooth shoulder extending out of the iron and catching the edge of the tapered flange threads. The wider tapered threads at the top of the flange would not be affected by the untrusion of the sleeve at the bottom portion of the hole. Threaded pipes lock up long before reaching the bottom of the fixture.

So I guess we are gluing the flange onto the sleeve extending out of the machined face.

Love these challenges John. It's what makes the craft fun.

Thanks again,
John
Title: The Exhaust Flange
Post by: J.L. on June 20, 2018, 03:53:38 PM
With the helpful suggestions discussed above, here is the flange being modified. It fits snuggly into the expanded hoe in the machined face on the top of the cylinder.

The nice thing thing about the added spigot is that it does not compromise the ID of the flange hole. The exhaust pipe will thread itself down the tapered threads and come to rest short of the the end of the spigot.

Title: The Exhaust Flange Part 2
Post by: J.L. on June 21, 2018, 01:39:28 PM
The void has been filled and machined.

The flange has its dummy studs ground flush.  A faux gasket has been attached.

The last photo shows the flange temporarily in place. It can not be pressed into place yet. Things look a little rough, but when everything is primed and painted, the brasss flange should stand out nicely against the top of the cylinder's side.
Title: Re: Textile Mill Diorama
Post by: b.lindsey on June 21, 2018, 02:57:50 PM
A fitting solution John. In the end, no one will ever know the flange isn't screwed into the cylinder.

Bill
Title: The Boiler House Roof
Post by: J.L. on June 22, 2018, 10:41:03 AM
Thanks Bill. I like that - "a fitting solution".  Very clever.

While the JBWeld was curing in the cylinder void, I had a go at the boiler room roof.

I went back to that store where I bought the mineral paint for the concrete floor and bought three colours to represent weathered slate or shakes. The owner gave me a quick lesson on dry brushing.

The roof is a formed plastic sheet. A cardboard template was made for the whole roof and transferred to the sheet. The plastic cut very nicely with a sharp knife.

The results...

Title: Re: Textile Mill Diorama
Post by: J.L. on June 22, 2018, 10:46:31 AM
While I was in the boiler room, I installed an industrial 1/12 scale light fixture over the fire door arch.

It may be many months before this light operates, but if all goes well, I look forward to seeing its warm glow on the boiler face.

Now its off to bore thse steam passage holes.  ::)

Hopefully, there will be no weeping, wailing and gnashing of teeth coming from the shop today. It's a long way to New South Wales, Australia.

Of course, there is always JBWeld...

But let's not borrow trouble.

John
Title: Steam Passages
Post by: J.L. on June 22, 2018, 08:49:50 PM
Break through ... x 4!
 :cartwheel:

Title: Re: Textile Mill Diorama
Post by: b.lindsey on June 22, 2018, 09:42:03 PM
Very nice John, and the roof looks superb!!

Bill
Title: Re: Textile Mill Diorama
Post by: wagnmkr on June 22, 2018, 10:40:12 PM
Knew you could do it! I agree ... the roof is wonderful.

Cheers

Tom
Title: Re: Textile Mill Diorama
Post by: J.L. on June 23, 2018, 11:42:19 AM
Thanks guys.

Jason, the idea of creating a little  pocket at the edge of the cylinder bore worked like a charm. It let the drill/countersink centre drill come to bear on a surface that would not let the point skitter about.

The tip vice was set at 60 degrees. This allowed the 1/8" holes to open out nicely at the bottom of the steam ports.

Jason, I still want to look into those 0-rings you were mentioning that create less friction in the bore. Over here, there are not hobby specific shops for this kind of thing. You get what hydraulic/bearing shops stock. However, they may have a 3/16" silicone ring.

John
Title: Cladding
Post by: J.L. on June 23, 2018, 09:26:17 PM
I found some Padauk in the rack which reminded me of pen turning days. It is a bright red when freshly cut, and turns to a dark mahogany shade when exposed to air. When it is oiled, it goes very dark. I'm sure aged cladding on working engines turned almost black with all the oil and grease about.

I have tested with two strips here. I think they will work. If I were dealing with steam, there is enough space between the cylinder wall and the cladding for a nice cosy blanket of insulating material.
Title: Re: Textile Mill Diorama
Post by: Kim on June 24, 2018, 01:18:58 AM
That's going to look beautiful, John.

Do be careful when working with the Padauk and take precautions.  I've heard that the dust from that can be pretty bad stuff.  But you probably already new that.
Kim
Title: Re: Textile Mill Diorama
Post by: J.L. on June 24, 2018, 01:29:27 AM
Hi Kim,

You are absolutely right. I've turned a lot of exotic woods and I think the worst is Cocobolo. I am quite allergic to it.

As for the padauk, I have a dust collector hooked up to the table saw, and wear a mask when sanding the little pieces.

It's a small job and should take very little shaping to get the lengths to fit between the cylinder's flanges.

Thanks for the caution.

Appreciated.

John


Title: Re: Textile Mill Diorama
Post by: Ian S C on June 24, 2018, 01:17:57 PM
It was toxic wood that got me into model engineering, or should I say out of wood turning. Even with a dust mask, the dust was getting me. Following along John, this is going well, hope you have a good area to display your dioramas.
Ian S C
Title: Wood Turning meets Model Engineering
Post by: J.L. on June 24, 2018, 06:06:01 PM
Hi Ian,

I am actually glad I went into card modelling and now model engineering to take my focus away from wood turning because most of my turnings featured the exotics.

You were wise. Thanks for sharing.

At the time, I started to use positive pressure headgear and not just a mask when at the lathe.

Here is a wood you will recognizre Ian - pau ferro. The knob on the litle box is ebony.

I'm taking the lagging one board at a time - cautiously.

Cheers...John

Title: The Crosshead
Post by: J.L. on June 24, 2018, 06:30:42 PM
I've got a feeling that when this crosshead was designed, it was thought best to make a shoe first that slid perfectly between the guide rails. Next, a steel block would be fashioned for the crank pin and the piston rod. Finally,  the shoe would  be screwed up under the block.

But here we are with a gunmetal casting all in one. If it works out, okay, but if not, it can be made (and perhaps more easily by fabricating it).

Title: Re: Textile Mill Diorama
Post by: J.L. on June 24, 2018, 06:35:01 PM
Padauk is a beautiful wood. No wonder why it is used so widely.

I've shown this picture before, but since we were discussing padauk, I thought I'd show it again here.


Title: Re: Textile Mill Diorama
Post by: Kim on June 24, 2018, 07:47:06 PM
Those are very nice turnings, John.  The wood is quite beautiful, as you say :)
Kim
Title: Re: Textile Mill Diorama
Post by: J.L. on June 24, 2018, 08:08:52 PM
Thanks Kim. I do miss the wood lathe every now and then.

I really like working with castings!  :-[

Casting flaws have shown up on the first facing cut. Cleaning up this side edge may throw off the casting centre completely. Perhaps there is enough meat to bring everything true later.

Maybe I will be making that shoe from scratch....

Title: Re: Textile Mill Diorama
Post by: J.L. on June 25, 2018, 12:03:11 PM
I'm done with this casting  >:(

I think I can build it up from scratch. A brass shoe and an aluminum block should do the job.

For a novice like me working with metal, bar stock of a specific size seems to be far more accurate than miling something to shape, flipping it over and milling it exactly the same again on the other side.  That seems more difficult  than building a piece lego style from the bottom up.





Title: Re: Textile Mill Diorama
Post by: Jo on June 25, 2018, 03:42:41 PM
Yes I have a pair of similar Iron crosshead castings missing from my Commander and when I enquired was told it is easier to fabricate it than to machine the casting  :-\

Other option is to machine off the two spigots, mill it square and add a steel shaft with bronze bushes.

Jo
Title: Re: Textile Mill Diorama
Post by: J.L. on June 25, 2018, 05:44:20 PM
Hi Jo,

Thanks for the suggestions. It's reassring that even the supplier suggested a fabriation of this critical  part in the power train.

We are on the right track with the thoought of building the part.

Cheers...John
Title: Cladding
Post by: J.L. on June 25, 2018, 07:06:55 PM
The cladding is on.

This wood is inherently oily as many exotics are. Questions are often asked about gluing and finishing it without getting a sticky mess.

But here, in this application, it is perfect. A few drops of oil on the finger and a rub down produces quite a nice look.

The brass bands and fasteners will enhance this large cyinder furthur as we move along.

Title: Re: Textile Mill Diorama
Post by: Tennessee Whiskey on June 25, 2018, 07:46:22 PM
Really nice John. The bands will look super with the drain cocks  :ThumbsUp:

Cletus
Title: Re: Textile Mill Diorama
Post by: mklotz on June 25, 2018, 08:49:27 PM
Wow, cladding that looks like fine furniture.  I don't know.  The Victorians were classy but were they THAT classy?

Just joking John, it looks fabulous.  Will the cladding bands be 18K or 24K?
Title: Re: Textile Mill Diorama
Post by: J.L. on June 25, 2018, 10:30:28 PM
Thank you Cletus.

Hi Marv,
You make my day with your comments.

I would think the bands would be about 3" in width or 1/4" in scale, so I went looking for brass strips at K &S hobby metals. They have 1/4" x 12" lengths in .016 and .032 thicknesses. I oredered the .016.

I think brass bolts and brass washers would look nice as well to fasten them.

Hi Jason,
Your suggestion of widening the groove worked to reduce the amount of friction in the cylinder. Your analogy of allowing the 0-ring room to compress like a squished football was apt.

Cheers...John
 
Title: Re: Textile Mill Diorama
Post by: zeeprogrammer on June 26, 2018, 12:22:40 AM
Hi Marv,
You make my day with your comments.

Indeed. Same here. Although I question why 'make my day' is always assumed to be positive.  :lolb: (Think Eastwood.)

As always...I'm following along. Always something to learn for me.
Title: Gaskets
Post by: J.L. on June 26, 2018, 01:35:10 PM
Hi Carl,
Thanks. I do remember that Clint Eastwood scene.

Marv, I've decided to not have the bands gold plated... :Lol:

I find the Olfa circle cutter very helpful for cutting thin paper circles.
Title: The Cylinder To Date
Post by: J.L. on June 26, 2018, 01:36:10 PM
A family shot of the cylinder parts so far...
Title: Re: Textile Mill Diorama
Post by: J.L. on June 26, 2018, 04:25:51 PM
We have a functioning cylinder. I am very pleased with the firm, smooth sliding movement of the piston. The 1/4" 0-ring in the stuffing box was adjusted with the nuts bearing against the gland. What a lot of difference a little tweaking makes!!

The orignnal plans for the back cover suggested three threaded 'lifting holes' spaced at 120 degrees around the cover. I did not install them, but I can certainly see the advantage they would give if you wanted to gently remove the back cover without having to pry it off with a screwdriver blade!  :(

 
Title: Re: Textile Mill Diorama
Post by: ddmckee54 on June 27, 2018, 07:34:19 PM
You definitely need the threaded lifting holes.  The holes for the lifting eyes were not so much for the gentle removal of the cover; they are there so you can tie off the cover and not drop it on your foot when you pry the cover off with the screwdriver.  Or worse yet as far as the company was concerned, drop the cover and break it.  These things would have been about the size of a manhole cover and probably weighed about as much.

Don
Title: Re: Textile Mill Diorama
Post by: J.L. on June 27, 2018, 09:27:37 PM
Hi Don,

Excellent point.  :ThumbsUp:

I hadn't thought of capturing the cover from mishap while removing it.

I know that on my wood lathe chuck, you coud specifiy what threaded adapter you needed to insert in the back of the chuck to fit your spindle threads. My General had a 1" x 8 TPI arbour screwed into the back of the chuck. It came with three socket head lifting screws. Once that arbor was bolted into  the chuck, just removing the bolts to get it off wasn't enough. You couldn't get it out without turning those three recessed socket headed cap screws.

Edit: I misspoke. Threaded holes are in the back of the arbour ready to receive bolts to separate the arbour from the chuck. The three socket headed cap screws mount the tapered arbor.




Title: The Crosshead Shoe
Post by: J.L. on June 28, 2018, 02:32:10 PM
This morning I machined the grooves in the crosshead shoe.

This engine will be used for light duty and brass may be okay for the material. However, since this crosshead is being built in sections, if it wears out, it can be easily removed and replaced with another one. This option would not be possible if the crosshead were machined out of one piece of gunmetal. A whole new crosshead would have to be worked up.

With this design, two flat head countersunk socket screws will mount the shoe from below.

A test sled was set up to test the fit of the shoe in the slide bars.



Title: The Crosshead
Post by: J.L. on June 30, 2018, 08:46:13 PM
I think this first picture tells volumes about working up cast parts (sometimes) vs working with bar stock. You can see immediately why the casting was rejected. However, the gunmetal may be used to make a bearing later.

A square bearing block fits into the recess in the crosshead block.

The recess was sawn rather than milled.

The set screw (first photo) will not be expected to hold the piston rod; it will be used to only set the rod's location. Then a pin will be installed.



Title: Canada Day
Post by: J.L. on July 01, 2018, 02:52:21 PM
Man it's hot out there! Hottest day on record I believe.

What bettr day to feature a purely Canadian invention - the Robertson square drive socket headed screw.

Here, two are being used to fasten the brass shoe to the crosshead block.
Title: Re: Textile Mill Diorama
Post by: crueby on July 01, 2018, 04:18:16 PM
Hotter than baked swarf here too, pushing high 90s at least today. Good day to work in the basement!
Title: Re: Textile Mill Diorama
Post by: b.lindsey on July 01, 2018, 05:32:09 PM
You guys are actually getting more of the heat wave than the south. Only a high of 90 here today but still humid.

Bill
Title: Re: Textile Mill Diorama
Post by: J.L. on July 01, 2018, 07:32:18 PM
Yes Chris, the basement is the place to be. Even with air on, coming upstairs I notice the heat.

Hi Bill,
It is now 32 degrees C. feeling like 43 degrees C. They closed the roof at the Rogers Centre for the Blue Jay's game this afternoon.

John
Title: The Crosshead and Slide Bars
Post by: J.L. on July 01, 2018, 07:59:53 PM
The parts...
Title: Re: Textile Mill Diorama
Post by: Tennessee Whiskey on July 02, 2018, 01:57:16 AM
1. Parts and everything looking spectacular. Awesome attention to detail
2. The Robertson screw is now the standard fastener on every RV in the US
3. Hot and extremely humid here: to the point that it has spawned some very nasty and devastating storms. I have 10 tons of A/C running in my shop and they never turned off today.
4. Carry on so I can follow along  :ThumbsUp:

Cletus
Title: Re: Textile Mill Diorama
Post by: J.L. on July 02, 2018, 02:58:00 PM
Hi Cletus,

Thanks. Interesting fact about the RV use of Robertson socket head screws. Henry Ford rejected them in Detroit when he set up shop. He wanted royalty rights as well I believe.

Here is the finished crosshead.

Title: Oak Trim
Post by: J.L. on July 02, 2018, 06:03:40 PM
A rabbetted flat strip of red oak at the back of the diorama (the workshhp side) seemed to be enough to trim the edge. I think the two vertical walls on either side terminate it well.

But on the front side, a flat strip does not seem to be enough. I think it has something to do with the returns.

The little bit of extra trim seems to make a better finishing statement here.

Tug, I like the solid mahogany trim you ripped and planed from a table top. Your base looks so clean and attractive.

Title: Re: Textile Mill Diorama
Post by: b.lindsey on July 02, 2018, 06:15:34 PM
The finished crosshead looks great John. Still following along on your progress.

Bill
Title: Re: Textile Mill Diorama
Post by: J.L. on July 02, 2018, 06:32:57 PM
Thanks Bill.
Title: The Valve Chest
Post by: J.L. on July 03, 2018, 01:44:36 PM
The cast iron cover has the name of the engine nicely cast with raised lettering. I think it would be best to paint the cover surface 'as cast' to get the nice textures.

The oval/diamond gland projection has to be machined. I am going to try to use my new rotating vice to set the angles to cut the lower half and cut the roundness off the other half with parallel cuts.

I'm not good with a file, but the rounded ends may have to hand worked.

Title: Re: Textile Mill Diorama
Post by: Larry Sw on July 03, 2018, 05:09:22 PM
You do very nice work John.  I am truly humbled.  :>)
If you want the Steam Chest cover background a little
smoother you can always dab some filler in there around
the No. 7.  A lot easier than trying to machine around the lettering.


Larry
Title: Re: Textile Mill Diorama
Post by: J.L. on July 03, 2018, 10:07:03 PM
Hi Larry,

Thank you for your kind words. However, some of them are unwarranted. I am truly an amateur when it comes to machining precision. I have a digital vernier calliper that reads 1/4", 3/8", 1/2" etc.

Decimal accuracy? I turn a crank on the milling machine, take a cut  and stop to check the thickness!

Computer assistance? You've got to be kidding.

Nevertheless, things have been working out with the engines in the dioramas.

Having those engines do work in a realistic setting is what turns my crank.

Thanks,

John
Title: Re: Textile Mill Diorama
Post by: zeeprogrammer on July 03, 2018, 10:34:28 PM
Thank you for your kind words. However, some of them are unwarranted. I am truly an amateur when it comes to machining precision. I have a digital vernier calliper that reads 1/4", 3/8", 1/2" etc.

Decimal accuracy? I turn a crank on the milling machine, take a cut  and stop to check the thickness!

Computer assistance? You've got to be kidding.

Yet, you seem to be one with the machines. My machines don't seem to know I'm here.  ;D
Title: Rotary Vice
Post by: J.L. on July 04, 2018, 09:57:31 PM
Tomorrow, I want to try something new with my rotary vice. When I bought it, I couldn't really see much advantage to being able to move the jaws other than 0 degrees or 90 degrees to accommodate the milling table. There are rotary tables.

Now I can.

In this photo, the heavier vice is able to hold the valve chest firmly while half of it sticks out quite far. On a rotary table, the part would have to be clamped. But here, the robust support allows the diamond/oval shape to be progresively milled to shape by changing the angle of the vice.

I wouldn't want to be without the rotary table to cut concentric circles, but for liniar cuts like this, the rotary vice seems to have come into its own.
Title: Re: Textile Mill Diorama
Post by: 10KPete on July 04, 2018, 10:18:23 PM
I use my swivel vise for that sort of thing all the time, John. Very handy! Limited only by the imagination...

 :cheers:

Pete
Title: Re: Textile Mill Diorama
Post by: J.L. on July 05, 2018, 01:34:24 PM
 Hi Pete,

The things you learn by the seat of your pants.

Old hat for you, but a new learning experience for me.

Thanks.

Rotating that vice certainly allowed the cutter to nibble away some of the metal.

The 1" belt sander finished the profiling.

That's glazing and spotting putty on the spots that were marked up in the process.
Title: Re: Textile Mill Diorama
Post by: b.lindsey on July 05, 2018, 01:40:55 PM
Looks great John, quite a transformation from the rough casting too!!

Bill
Title: Re: Textile Mill Diorama
Post by: J.L. on July 05, 2018, 07:32:07 PM
Thanks Bill.

Some of the cast iron castings are quite generous with extra 'meat' on them. Almost half of the cover for this valve chest was milled away!

Not so with all of the gunmetal ones as we have seen with the crosshead.

The cover is clampled on the chest now as a template for the 8 1/8" stud holes.

Note:
In the second shot showing the drilling setup, the top edge of the recess looks a bit ragged. Rather than mess with the overall texture of the cast, I have left it alone. Interestingly enough, when looking down on the cover as it will be set up vertically, you don't see that roughness.
Title: Re: Textile Mill Diorama
Post by: J.L. on July 05, 2018, 08:36:47 PM
Now that's what I call spot drilling... ^-^
Title: Re: Textile Mill Diorama
Post by: b.lindsey on July 05, 2018, 09:52:10 PM
Nice John, one more task out of the way now!

Bill
Title: Securing Valve Chest
Post by: J.L. on July 06, 2018, 08:26:30 PM
Thanks Bill.

This practice may be nothing new to the serious builders of slide valve engines, but it is the first time I have seen the valve chest secured to the cylinder face without the aid of the studs that secure themselves in the cylinder face and run up through the valve chest and the cover.

It greatly simplifies observing the movement of the valve later in the build. On Victoria, removing the cover compromised the alignement of the valve chest unless you put bolts back on to hold the chest firmly.

This setup will also ensure that all 8 studs can be spotted with a drill without any fear of the chest moving.

The securing bolts are hex headed cap screws.
Title: Re: Textile Mill Diorama
Post by: crueby on July 06, 2018, 08:37:27 PM
That is a bit different than usual, nice idea as long as the bolt holes dont interfere with the exhaust passage out the side of the block.


 :popcorn:
Title: Re: Textile Mill Diorama
Post by: J.L. on July 06, 2018, 09:02:13 PM
Hi Chris,

Exactly right. The drill depth was carefully checked on the exhaust port side of the cylinder block before the tap hole was drilled.

Here is the face of the cylinder dimpled for tap drilling by using the secured valve chest as template.


Title: Re: Textile Mill Diorama
Post by: 10KPete on July 07, 2018, 05:52:56 AM
SWEET!!  Now that's the way...

 :cheers:

Pete
Title: Re: Textile Mill Diorama
Post by: J.L. on July 07, 2018, 01:42:51 PM
Thanks Pete.
Title: Re: Textile Mill Diorama
Post by: J.L. on July 07, 2018, 03:53:24 PM
Time out for some eye candy.

I have been waiting for some 1/4" strips of .016" brass that have been backordered for some time. It turns out that the Canadian distributor for K&S metals went out of business. I believe the company that took over went bankrupt!  :facepalm:

But my hobby store did have some strips of .016 2 inches thick on hand. Hmmmm...  :thinking:

My table saw has a carbide blade that can be used on thin non-ferrous metals. You know where this is going...

The trick was to cut the material safely without tearing itself apart or slipping under the fence.

Here's the setup.  We'll see how things go.


Title: Re: Textile Mill Diorama
Post by: Kim on July 07, 2018, 04:24:46 PM
That's a pretty slick idea John - to use the sandwich to cut the thin brass strip.  I assume it worked out OK? The spray adhesive was plenty to keep things together for the sawing job?

Kim
Title: Re: Textile Mill Diorama
Post by: J.L. on July 07, 2018, 05:38:30 PM
Yes Kim, the 3M spray adhesive works like a charm. It really holds until you need to release it. It's also good for sticking paper templates onto metal for profiling.

Another advantage to sandwiching is the ease with which holes can be drilled into thin material.

Drilling holes in thin metal, especially brass, as we all know, can be very dangerous. If the drill grabs the thin metal and the metal starts spinning, you've got a problem.

Safety first. The sandwiching takes the drill down into the supporting material and engages the metal and creates a clean hole.

Note: When cutting metal on a table saw in this manner, be sure to wear a faceshield. Little shards of metal are ejected from the kerf of the supporting wood.
Title: Re: Textile Mill Diorama
Post by: J.L. on July 07, 2018, 07:03:28 PM
The top of the cylinder will be quite visible when viewed from above, so I thought a little bling would dress up the banding.

I ordered brass hex headed #3-48 1/4" bolts and washers.

Jason, you were right about the JB Weld becoming a problem if a tap skittered between cast iron and the exoxy filler. I could feel the softness of the material as I was threading for these little bolts.

The faux steel studs and nuts were the way to go with this filler.

Actually Jason, I think it was you that gave me the idea of co-ordinating the brass banding with brass fittings. Thanks.
Title: Re: Textile Mill Diorama
Post by: crueby on July 07, 2018, 07:24:33 PM
That sets off the wood color very well!
 :popcorn:
Title: Re: Textile Mill Diorama
Post by: b.lindsey on July 07, 2018, 07:34:25 PM
Beautiful John. Live the contrast!!

Bill
Title: Re: Textile Mill Diorama
Post by: J.L. on July 07, 2018, 08:49:31 PM
Thank you very much Chris and Bill.

The drain cocks also add a nice touch of brass, but they won't be seen by viewing the diorama from the front. But when we go around back, we will see them through the window or the open door in the woodworking shop.

Cheers...John
Title: Diorama Shots
Post by: J.L. on July 07, 2018, 10:21:06 PM
Chris,I was asking about a base for your steam shovel project.

It's great that it is in the middle of the room for easy access to all sides.

Here's a shot of the stainless steel table I purchased for the textile mill diorama. It will require stablilzers before the model becomes operational.

Also some shots of the diorama from angles not previously shown.



Title: Re: Textile Mill Diorama
Post by: crueby on July 07, 2018, 11:13:09 PM
Great looking table, where did you find it?
For transporting the shovel, thinking maybe one with larger wheels for parking lots, folding for getting in the car. Maybe just its own trailer, complete with dirt pile... 
Title: Re: Textile Mill Diorama
Post by: J.L. on July 07, 2018, 11:54:27 PM
Hi Chris,
It's a stainless steel Hubert table.
Sent you a PM.
John
Title: Re: Textile Mill Diorama
Post by: zeeprogrammer on July 07, 2018, 11:58:02 PM
You're another member that's difficult to keep up with and whose work is fascinating.
Fantastic stuff and, as I've said before, inspirational.
Title: Re: Textile Mill Diorama
Post by: J.L. on July 08, 2018, 02:01:39 PM
Your comments are very much appreiated Carl.  Thank you.

But really Carl, I am but an amateur in this august company.

The studs for the valve chest were made from #5-40 bolts. The heads were cut off and threaded just enough to let the nut lock itself when being threaded into the receiving hole in the cylinder cover.

I really like the scale model nuts that can be purchased from Amerian Model Engineering. The top of the nuts have a nice curved edge and the botttoms are flat. But to prevent the sharp edges from scoring a painted surface, they have a tiny round shoulder. I'm not sure but I think they are called 'lands'.


Title: Re: Textile Mill Diorama
Post by: 10KPete on July 08, 2018, 04:32:50 PM
Beautiful work, John! That's called a washer-faced nut...

Pete
Title: Re: Textile Mill Diorama
Post by: J.L. on July 08, 2018, 04:43:03 PM
Thanks Pete. A nut with a built in washer. I was referring to the raised shoulder you are calling a washer as being called a 'land'.

Maybe because the nut lands on the surface being secured.  :Lol:

Edit:
I looked up the word 'land'. I wasn't far from being right. Lands refer to raised metal. In a rifle barrel, the definition is:

"The metal between the grooves is called a "land".
Title: Re: Textile Mill Diorama
Post by: john mills on July 08, 2018, 11:06:31 PM
hi John your doing a great job .
in machinery hand book it refers to the face as washer face the top at 30 deg  .That is american std but that is what i have always known as nut std  ordinary nuts have 30 deg chamfer both sides  some nuts have a washer face. from when i did fitting and turning as an apprentice that is what i was told the way to make them. These days fasteners coming from china they can be any thing.we do get washer nuts where the water part is bigger than the points of the hex.
It looks like your supplier is making proper nuts.
Title: Re: Textile Mill Diorama
Post by: Ramon on July 08, 2018, 11:41:14 PM
Hi John just caught up - everything looking very 'tickety boo' as they say  :ThumbsUp:

Wonder if I might offer you a tip for when setting the valve. This idea was passed to me by forum member George  'KBC' and proves a god send when valve setting.

Instead of threading the valve rod and nut, keep the valve rod smooth with a nicely fitting a hole in the valve nut to suit. Tap the nut to take a small grub screw. This allows infinite adjustment of the valve rather than half a tread length but more importantly you don't have to keep taking the valve chest off or breaking the valve rod link in order to do so. I did this on my D10 on Georges suggestion and can vouch for it's ease of operation  :ThumbsUp:

Hope I'm not teaching Granny here but it's mentioned in good faith  :)

Regards - Tug
Title: Slide Valve Modification
Post by: J.L. on July 09, 2018, 02:30:06 AM
Good information John. Thanks.

Tug, I welcome your input very much on the timing of the slide valve. In 1946, when O.B. Bolton drew the plans, he too did not consider threading the valve nut either. He employed flats to engage the tangs of the slide valve instead. But as I see it you are committed once those flats are filed.

The suggestion given to you makes so much more sense and, as you say, gives infinite control of the placement of the slide by means of the grub screw.

Wonderful advice!

It's the same setup as for the piston rod. It is not threaded. It slides back and forth for placement in the boss of the crosshead and is secured also with a grub screw at the side. When the rod is in the correct position, a hole is drilled through the boss and the rod from the top for a permanent pin.

Thank you so much Tug. Your timing (no pun) is perfect. I will be working up the slide valve soon.

John
Title: The Connecting Rod
Post by: J.L. on July 09, 2018, 03:12:37 PM
A cast gunmetal connecting rod came with the cast parts for this engine. This may have been well and good for someone making a display model and not worrying about authentic practices of the time.

But in a diorama setting, where the goal is to represent as closely as possible, the way things looked in that time period, it was immediately dismissed.

I had the rod machined for me with much heavier equipment out of cold rolled steel. I saw the 1 1/4" round rod from which it was turned. It was over two feet long! I guess they wanted to have lots of grip and chew it out of one end of the rod. That's why you see a radius on the edges of the fork and the foot.

My first crack at the finished rod was to make and place the bearing clamping plate at the big end of the part. I couldn't support the foot in my milling vice. It would have been waving around way up in the air. Instead, I used a drill press vice and let the fork dangle down through the hole in the centre of the drill press's table. The jaws then gripped the foot firmly.
Title: Oops!
Post by: J.L. on July 09, 2018, 10:35:15 PM
I was under the impression that a split bearing had equal amount of material on both sides of the split. So, a 3/4" block of metal should be able to be made with two pieces 3/8" each. I guess you should not assume such things without checking the drawings.

After milling the two halves of the gunmetal casting (joined) to exactly 3/8", I did look at the drawing.

You will see my error.

I could shave down one 3/8" side, but the block would no longer be 3/4" in thickness. I never thought to check the location of the hole in the block.

Title: Re: Textile Mill Diorama
Post by: zeeprogrammer on July 09, 2018, 10:41:24 PM
I think I understand why you might not leave it as is but I'm wondering if there was a reason why the hole wasn't centered.
Title: Re: Textile Mill Diorama
Post by: john mills on July 10, 2018, 01:29:12 AM
It would be good to check when the rod and bearing is assembled to the cross head and crank shaft that the the pistons rod and piston will travel in the correct position ,piston travel even clearance at top and bottom of the stoke in the cylinder. if adult meant is required the final thickness of the top block can be made to suit.now is to find out if any errors.Fine tuning can be made.  I don't know how the component assemble and what adjustment is possible.i don't know how important the thickness is for the bottom half ,i don't think it would matter most important have it look right to you can machine more of later .or may have to fit shims.
The engines i have built the thickness for top and bottom varies top often thiner.l
Title: Re: Textile Mill Diorama
Post by: J.L. on July 10, 2018, 01:50:04 AM
Not sure either Carl.

Hi John,
Yes, there will probably be a lot of shim work with this engine. The trick will be to set it all up temporarily to test the travel of everything. That means clamping awkward parts in the power train.

But I must say I'm looking forward to finding out how close the diagram distances are to the actual setup. There's always a way of compensating here and there. I think that's what makes getting things running nicely so enjoyable.
Title: Re: Textile Mill Diorama
Post by: J.L. on July 10, 2018, 02:14:49 PM
Here is the gunmetal big end bearing halves being fastened together. I chose to not soft solder them.
Title: Re: Textile Mill Diorama
Post by: J.L. on July 10, 2018, 08:57:22 PM
I was having trouble getting this casting set in the four-jaw so that it's face was perpendicular to its axis. That's where the tailstock chuck really came in handy as shown in these photos.

I honestly thought I had lost this casting a couple of steps ago, but phoenix may rise out of the ashes yet.
Title: Re: Textile Mill Diorama
Post by: J.L. on July 11, 2018, 07:58:04 PM
Success with the parts.

Now for the fit...

Title: Re: Textile Mill Diorama
Post by: Roger B on July 11, 2018, 08:52:20 PM
Still following along (trying to keep up)  Splendid work as ever and some interesting solutions to some problems like keeping the valve cover in place and cutting the brass strips  :praise2:  :praise2:  :wine1:
Title: Re: Textile Mill Diorama
Post by: J.L. on July 11, 2018, 10:05:13 PM
Hello Roger,

Thank you for your very kind words. Sharing ideas is the game here. We are very lucky to have a forum of this calibre where we can learn, share and advise.

Hopefully it will be available for a very long time. Many of the fellows are aging and from what I've read, some of the annual shows are dwindling in attendance and participation. Times are changing and I wonder how many of our next generation will experience the thrill of creating model engines and watch them come to life.

On a brighter note, here are two photos of the ends of the connecting rod's fork being drilled and threaded for #2-56 grub screws. It was a bit of a risk working so far up and out of the supporting chuck, but if I don't break a tap, it will have been a success.

Love that threading device to keep the taps running true.

Thanks again Roger,

John



Title: Re: Textile Mill Diorama
Post by: scc on July 12, 2018, 05:31:15 PM
I'm enjoying (and learning) with this thread. The engine is taking shape nicely and the building parts are wonderful. The black sliding door especially is spot on. I can almost here the rumble and bang when it shuts!    Well Done   John.............Terry
Title: Re: Textile Mill Diorama
Post by: scc on July 12, 2018, 05:32:31 PM
Sorry          White door,   black track :old:
Title: A Change of Plans
Post by: J.L. on July 12, 2018, 08:32:07 PM
Thank you Terry.
Building that metal clad fire door was a lot of fun.

I tried to make my own crosshead pin and fit it to the gunmental block that fits in the crosshead frame. It did not go well.

So, I decided to go with materials that are made with precision. The cross pin in photo two is a hardened, polished steel dowel pin.

In photo one, a bronze sleeve has been pressed into an upsized hole.

The grub screws in the end of the fork have been increased in size to #3-48.

Almost ready to put some of this engine together.  :)
Title: Re: Textile Mill Diorama
Post by: J.L. on July 12, 2018, 10:39:12 PM
The Crosshead...
Title: Re: Textile Mill Diorama
Post by: wagnmkr on July 12, 2018, 11:36:15 PM
Very slick John ... good looking parts.

Cheers

Tom
Title: Re: Textile Mill Diorama
Post by: J.L. on July 13, 2018, 01:29:53 PM
Thanks Tom,,

The engine will be asking you for a visit soon...

Now the measurement on a piece of paper become academic. It's time to let the engine tell me where things are at.

This first test is to determine the elevations of the parts. As I figured, the crossslide is too high.

The pointer in the first photo is centered on the axis of the crankshaft. This seems to be the point from which all other elevation heights will be taken.

In the second photo, you will see that the pointer is below the axis of the cross pin.

I have to shave off some material from the bottom of the crosshead.

I've also noticted in this first trial setup that the cylinder shaft is going to be too long. The measusrement on the drawings for the crank length should have been shorter.

That's what makes this game interesting.  :)

Title: Re: Textile Mill Diorama
Post by: J.L. on July 13, 2018, 10:26:55 PM
The split block simply would not stop binding when  the bolts were drawn up tightly.
 
I can see why there are a lot of brass shims lying about in the machine shop.

Title: Re: Textile Mill Diorama
Post by: wagnmkr on July 14, 2018, 01:22:34 AM
Thanks Tom,,

The engine will be asking you for a visit soon..


Yup, I am hoping very soon John.

Cheers

Tom
Title: Re: Textile Mill Diorama
Post by: zeeprogrammer on July 14, 2018, 01:28:28 AM
The split block simply would not stop binding when  the bolts were drawn up tightly.

I'd like to know more about that.

What exactly was binding?
I can't tell from the pictures...where was the shim put?

In any case...problem identified and problem solved.  :ThumbsUp:
Title: Re: Textile Mill Diorama
Post by: john mills on July 14, 2018, 04:36:54 AM
The hight of the crank shaft to the cross head is not as important as the piston rod  centre of the cylinder must be in line and same hight as the cross head  so when assembled it will slide full length of stroke if the crank shaft is at a slightly different hight it won't effect the running of the engine.
great to see the engine progressing.
Title: Re: Textile Mill Diorama
Post by: Jasonb on July 14, 2018, 07:58:20 AM
As John says set the cross head to the cylinder ctr line and unless the cross head to crank is massively out don't worry too much about it. I have done some engines where the crank is purposely offset to the cylinder.

Also check that your binding is not due to the edges of the bearing hole fouling a bit of loctite in the corners of the crank, you get similar problems with solid cranks where any radius on the tool leaves a filler to a could CSK of the bearing edges is needed. I usually blue the bearing, assemble and then when you take it apart you can see where the colour has come off and that is where it touches. Also if you have some of the same barstock as the crankpin try that in the hole without shims to see if it is OK, if it is then part of the assembly is causing the problem not the size of the hole.
Title: Re: Textile Mill Diorama
Post by: J.L. on July 14, 2018, 12:46:14 PM
Thanks John.

Hi Carl and Jason,

Perhaps I used the wrong word and misled you when describing the fit of the split gunmental block on the crank pin. I should have used the word clamp instead of bind. When the bolts were drawn up snuggly, the block locked up as if gripped in a vice.

I was very careful to polish the pin and ream the block to exactly the same diameter - 7/16". Jason,I think bluing the bearing would work if there was rotation but binding. As you say, it would wear off the bluing and reveal a high spot.

No, I'm talking clamping the block solidly to the pin  After introducing a 0.00585 shim, I could feel a pleasing, firm, rotating pressusre when I drew up the bolts.

I am not worried about the location of the cylinder at all at this point. More about that later.

What I am working on now is getting the con rod and the crosshead running true to the central axis of the bed and locationg the sliding bars.

Thanks for the input.

John


Title: Re: Textile Mill Diorama
Post by: b.lindsey on July 14, 2018, 01:27:31 PM
I have been out of town for a few days so it is nice to see your progress John. Always makes me wonder if they had to do similar things when rigging full size engines back in the 1800's and early 1900's. I suspect they did, just on a whole different scale. Your work is progressing wonderfully and as always a joy to see your updates.

Bill
Title: Re: Textile Mill Diorama
Post by: J.L. on July 14, 2018, 01:54:28 PM
Hi Bill,
I'm sure you are right. Filers and fitters must have had steady work not only with the initial fitting of parts for smooth running, but compensating for wear and tear as the engines aged.

Thanks for the poitive comments.

The notes that accompanied this kit, suggested that all parts in the power train be temporarily aligned and clamped in place before the slide bar holes were drilled.  Good advice. When I set everything up except the cylinder, I was sure things were 'in line'. Boy, was I wrong. The setup you see  before these pictures were taken was bearing at least 4 degrees to the left when viewed from behind. That meant the crankshaft bearing blocks had to be loosened and relocated to bring the crosshead around to the centre of its pad.

Thanks goodness Loctite was not on my mind earlier.

With the crosshead equally centered on its pad, the slide bars can be fitted.

You will notice a piston rod sticking out of the crosshead boss like a gun barrel. It is an extra rod I had made earlier and helped aim the parts. Gun barrel may be an apt analogy, for the whole system so far has been 'sighted in.'

About that Loctite, since I have enlarged holes for adjustment, it will definitely be needed to hold parts in place once the slide bars are bolted down.


From the sound of the above, you'd almost think I knew what I was doing! It's all a learning experience and total enjoyment from some daunting health issues. The kind advice and help on this thread is really appreciated.

Cheers...John
Title: Re: Textile Mill Diorama
Post by: derekwarner on July 14, 2018, 02:10:25 PM
JL.....with the ~~0.006" shims [plural] in place, rotate the crank so that the piston is in full extremity of stroke entry into the cylinder, ie., the  cylinder rod is in the 'true' horizontal plane

Place your dial indicator on the outboard or bottom bearing half...

Can you rock the cylinder rod to perceive & establish any movement?

If the bearing is a size for size 'clearance' on the pin and is free to rotate or float in that small clearance between the crankshaft web plates without the connection to the piston rod, however tightens up when the bearing halves ate tightened, then angularity of the crank pin is an obvious root cause of concern

Remember 0.0005" angularity on a 0.4375" diameter pin will be difficult to establish over a similar pin width

A method of checking for such alignment is to use a deformable Teflon cord of say 0.005" diameter....."yes just a little thicker than a human hair"

Place a length in the bottom 1/2 of the bearing shell [this will be sitting at ~~ the 3:00 o'clock position and tighten the bearing shell halves

The removal & measurement across the length [width] of engagement or the Teflon cord thickness will confirm the geometry

Derek   
Title: Re: Textile Mill Diorama
Post by: Ramon on July 14, 2018, 03:43:15 PM
......I was very careful to polish the pin and ream the block to exactly the same diameter - 7/16". Jason,I think bluing the bearing would work if there was rotation but binding.

Hello John,
Not withstanding all the sound advice you've had so far, but with regard to the above you have in fact produced a 'push fit' situation i.e. a size for size pin and hole is a tight push fit under normal circumstances.

Usually the crankpin diameter is made size and the bearing eased to suit. In full size circumstances these parts would be made in the 'machine shop' and the 'fitting' carried out by 'fitters' in the erection shop. Fitting a shim should be a last resort and usually only then to make up for 'lost' material. As you still have material to remove that's what should be tackled to ease the fit to the pin. A combination of scraping the halves and/or easing with wet and dry paper wrapped tightly around a dowel will soon see to it. I have several half round needle files with the very tips ground to act as scrapers for just this sort of situation. Might be worth investigating?

Re the cross head I would concur with Jason and John Mills in that the first matter is to ensure the cross head centre-line is made relative to the centre-line of the cylinder in both planes and ensure free movement of the cross head in the bars or slide for the length of stroke with the piston and rod fitted before dealing with the Con-Rod hook up. Freedom of movement here will allow you to spot quickly any slight tightness when you do then fit the Con Rod.

I have all this to come on my build but the above is based on previous engines - hope that adds to the melting pot some. It's all looking very good despite your odd fitting problem :ThumbsUp:

Regards - Tug
Title: Re: Textile Mill Diorama
Post by: J.L. on July 14, 2018, 04:10:48 PM
Thanks again for all the help and suggestions fellows.

Derek, that was right over the top of my head. You realisze you are talking to a woodworker who has graduated from the use of a tape measure...

I must be beating a different drum here. I want everything dead on before I begin to machine off material from the bottom of the cylinder which I know is too high right now. Then there will be no guesswork as to determining the common horizontal axis of the crosshead bore and the cylinder rod.

With that in mind, here is the set-up to determine the location of the slide bars.
Title: Re: Textile Mill Diorama
Post by: Ramon on July 14, 2018, 06:07:15 PM
Ah, I see John - I was assuming you had the cylinder machined with the centre line of the bore determined.  You're on the right route then, just a different track  :D Have you thought how you will go about machining the cylinder to get it spot on height?

If it helps....

When I set my Corliss up in the first instance one cylinder required a small amount off the bottom - much the same situation as you will have I guess. In order to ensure the base was parallel to the bore I set it up on a close fitting bar passed through the bore supported on two vee blocks. There's a pic of the first set up to bring the base to dimension using a smaller than the bore diameter bar to do this here http://www.modelenginemaker.com/index.php/topic,7688.15.html (http://www.modelenginemaker.com/index.php/topic,7688.15.html) - you'll need to scroll down to post 28 if it's of help.

When I finally bolted the cylinders on though there was a very small discrepancy so it was set up exactly the the same but as said this time with a much closer fitting bar through the bore to ensure the base was as parallel to the bore as possible. Worked out very well.

Regards - Tug

Title: Re: Textile Mill Diorama
Post by: Jasonb on July 14, 2018, 06:30:11 PM
John, I was rather hoping that the almost 6thou shim was a typo and that you had used a 6ths one. It is worth considering what you have actually done to the shape of the hole.

Looking at this sketch by inserting the shim you have gained a slight clearance top and bottom on the split line as highlighted which has been enough to cure the tightness. But at the widest points indicated by the blue arrows you have got the best part of 3 thou gap which is rather a lot.

As most of the engines force will be at these mid points you will soon develope a nasty knock as the tiny contact areas top and bottom bed in.

I feel you would be better off removing the shims and just easing the hole slightly. Generally over here a nominal 7/16" reamer will be made to give an H& tollerence hole which is a few tenths over 0.4375" and will give a running fit. If you don't have a reamer like this then the two methods Ramon mentioned will do, I have a miniature triangular scraper which is ideal for removing small amounts of metal on bearings.

When I mentioned blueing the parts the method is to blue then, a marker pen or sharpie will do and then do up the nuts until you just start to feel things starting to tighten and then revolve the bearing on the pin, take apart and look to see what is touching and remove metal as needed. You may have to repeat this 10 or more times be it is worth it in the end for a properly "fitted" bearing.

As Ramon said shim was not often used to open up bearings. It was either placed behind a worn bearing to close up the wear or several shims placed in the joint and then the hole machined, any subsequent wear could then be taken up by removing shims, you often see this with babbit bearings.

As for adjusting the height of the cylinder I would suggest you remove metal from the bed casting as it will be easier to leave the engine on the mill table and take off test, then take off metal and test rather than having to set the cylinder up several times to skim the bottom with the risk of the base not remaining parallel to the bore.
Title: Re: Textile Mill Diorama
Post by: J.L. on July 14, 2018, 07:22:43 PM
Hi Jason,
You make two points I must seriously consider. I will remove the shims and get thing in order there.

Secondly, I will mill the pad for the cylinder down rather than try to keep setting up the cylinder (upside down) to shave off incremental amount until the piston rod slips into the boss in the crosshead.

Excellent advice. You have saved me a lot of time and effort. I've got the vice off the bed now and can proceed to mill that pad.

Good point about not messing with the possibility of getting the cylinder foot out of parallel with the cylinder bore.

Thanks,
John


Title: Success
Post by: J.L. on July 15, 2018, 12:44:42 AM
Thank you all for your input.

The con rod is connected to the crosshead which is sliding nicely.   :cartwheel:

The concern about the shims is resolved. There are none. Jason, I held a 7/16" reamer in a vice and rotated the split block about it. I could hear and see the hole responding to the sharp blades of the reamer.

The visual effect of the high kick and low plunge of the crankshaft is almost mesmerizing. This is old hat to most, but for me this was a thrill.

P.S. There will be locknuts on those big end bolts.

Title: Re: Textile Mill Diorama
Post by: crueby on July 15, 2018, 01:13:11 AM
Beautiful!


 :cartwheel:
Title: Re: Textile Mill Diorama
Post by: scc on July 15, 2018, 09:53:20 AM
Beautiful!


 :cartwheel:
            Seconded!    Terry
Title: Re: Textile Mill Diorama
Post by: wagnmkr on July 15, 2018, 10:37:56 AM
Beautiful!


 :cartwheel:
            Seconded!    Terry

Me three ... Gorgeous!   Tom
Title: Re: Textile Mill Diorama
Post by: propforward on July 15, 2018, 11:57:26 AM
Brilliant - that's absolutely delightful!
Title: Mountng the Cylinder
Post by: J.L. on July 15, 2018, 01:09:37 PM
Thank you all for your kind words.  :)

Now we come to the challenging part of bringing the cylinder 'online'.  ;D

Jacob and Tug, you both talked about taking care to keep the foot of the cylinder parallel to the walls of the cylinder bore. On this engine, mounting the cylinder seems a bit primitive compared to other ways of going about it. You have to find a way to clamp it firmly in place once you have it at the correct elevation so that you can turn the entire engine over to spot drill for the tapping holes.

If it were a car, I guess you could lift it up with the hoist, get under it and drill up into the cylinder's foot to spot the tapping holes.

Other methods are so much easier. Photo one shows a Stuart cylinder mounted vertically with a mounting plate.

Photo two shows another Stuart cylinder mounted horizontally with end brackets.

You can see from the third photo that when I had the cylinder bored, care was taken to just flatten the foot parallel with the bore and the cylinder's face.  The casting flaws were ignored.

There is not a lot of meat on that pad. Hopefully enough will be left when machined down as you suggested Jason. I understand how you did it Tug, but don't feel confident to go that route.

Title: Re: Textile Mill Diorama
Post by: propforward on July 15, 2018, 01:29:32 PM
I like the way you take the time to present photographs of your components - actually placing them (presumably) in a light tent of some devising.
Title: Re: Textile Mill Diorama
Post by: J.L. on July 15, 2018, 03:26:22 PM
Thanks. You are close, but no light tent. Most of my shots not taken in the shop are taken on a desktop with a white backdrop that comes down from the ceiling and curves onto the top of the desk. Overhead florescent lighting is used as well as a florescent reflector lamp.

Here we go with machining the cylinder pad...
Title: Finish
Post by: J.L. on July 16, 2018, 07:25:00 PM
A thought occurred to me (that happens every now and then) as I was working with the cylinder. I've been handling it so much that the paint  finish is beginning to look 'old'. This is exactly the look I'm going for with a hard working mill engine that has been in service for perhaps ten to twenty years.  I tend to prime and paint the parts as I go along, and the more handling they receive, the more the finish dulls.

This engine is not destined to sit on the top of the mantle with gleaming brass and polished steel. However, at some point, it would be nice to make a display model to mount for display only. Brass is such a beautiful metal. Perhaps some day...

Now back to handling that cylinder and attempting to fasten it from below.


Title: Re: Textile Mill Diorama
Post by: mklotz on July 16, 2018, 07:30:29 PM
Besides, according to Jo, casting fondling is psychologically therapeutic.  Both you and the engine improve.
Title: Re: Textile Mill Diorama
Post by: J.L. on July 16, 2018, 08:54:34 PM
Marv,  :ThumbsUp:

I think I have found a simple way of securing the cylinder while tweaking it into place and spotting the holes to thread below.  Two tee nuts were made to fasten the bed of the engine across the milling table with the cylinder section hanging out in front.

My parallels have holes drilled in them. That made the making of a clamping system easy.  The parallel will cover the center hole below, but that's okay. The other two will be exposed.

I am also thinking of taking the nuts and studs out of the cover of the cylinder and pulling the cover out a bit. That may let me see in to visually determine how far back the piston is coming. The stroke is supposed to be 2 1/4". It would be nice to centre the cylinder now than have to adjust the piston rod length later.


Title: Re: Textile Mill Diorama
Post by: J.L. on July 17, 2018, 05:53:40 PM
The clamping setup allowed me to see the piston face at each end of the cylinder. The cylinder was then moved back and forth until the free space at each end of the bore was equal.

There is not much free space there!  ::)  The crankshaft is almost throwing the piston furthur than the cylinder's length.  To prevent the piston face from hitting the cylinder covers, the registers were cut from 1/16" to 1/32" and the location of the inlet ports were opened up by milling the registers flat to the interior faces of the covers. 

You will see the black o-ring in the photos. I removed it for ease of operation while setting the cylinder. I must say, it is rather hard and offers perhaps more resistance than necessary. I did widen the groove to let it squish, but am considering replacing it with a softer silicone ring. They are not as durable and wear out faster, but we are only talking about 30 psi of air pressure and the machine is not going to be running constantly.  There also is no risk of deterioration due to steam.

I may have trouble finding just one from a local supplier. We will see.
Title: Re: Textile Mill Diorama
Post by: J.L. on July 17, 2018, 08:17:59 PM
My lucky day. A 1 1/2" O.D. silicone 0-ring is a stock item. M & C Hydraulic have added it to their dalily order. I may have it tomorrow.

Here is the engine upside down with two of the three holes drilled to fasten the foot of the cylinder to the bed. The centre bolt hole (under the parallel) will be the final hole drilled later to lock everything up once things have been adjusted.
Title: Re: Textile Mill Diorama
Post by: J.L. on July 18, 2018, 01:54:11 PM
The cylinder block is mounted.  :)

Title: Re: Textile Mill Diorama
Post by: J.L. on July 18, 2018, 02:28:57 PM
Now that the muscle of the engine has neared completion, it's time to turn to its brain.

Not long ago, there was a discussion on one of the threads about getting a drill to run true down through the open space of a valve chest to engage the lower wall.  I'm sorry I can't recall which one it was, but in it, Jason Ballamy suggested a long centre drill.

I was not aware that they made them in 3 inch lengths as well as the traditional shorter ones. Here is a #1 that is 1/8" in diameter. It should be perfect for this application.

Thanks Jason.
Title: Re: Textile Mill Diorama
Post by: crueby on July 18, 2018, 02:54:50 PM
Neat, didn't know they made the narrow ones that long, should work well.


 :popcorn:
Title: Re: Textile Mill Diorama
Post by: J.L. on July 18, 2018, 03:15:29 PM
Hi Chris,

Yes, here is a shot showing the setup using that longer 1/8" center drill. A 1/8" collet chuck in the quill of the mill/drilling machine was used instead of a drill chuck.

Now the holes can be opened up to whatever size.


Title: Re: Textile Mill Diorama
Post by: Ye-Ole Steam Dude on July 18, 2018, 07:40:45 PM
Hi J.L.

The wood, copper and stainless against the "industrial green" color makes for a really great contrast.

Have a great day,
Thomas
Title: Re: Textile Mill Diorama
Post by: b.lindsey on July 18, 2018, 10:16:01 PM
Very nice John. Those longer length center drills are handy to have around. Nicely done.

Bill
Title: Tail Rod Guide
Post by: J.L. on July 20, 2018, 03:53:11 PM
Hi Bill,

Thanks.

That long center drill put the rest of the project on track without the drill wandering off centre.

The valve chest was not cast with a bump out for the end of the valve rod. The rod's hole had to be enlarged and threaded for a talil rod guide.

An adaptor was made from hex stock to hold the threads of the part as the unmachined portion of it was finished off.
Title: Re: Textile Mill Diorama
Post by: Steamer5 on July 20, 2018, 04:01:31 PM
Lovely work John,

Still quietly follow & along.

MUST investigate those long centre drills!

Cheers Kerrin
Title: Re: Textile Mill Diorama
Post by: J.L. on July 20, 2018, 06:21:15 PM
Thanks Kerrin,

Yes, I see all sorts of applications for those longer center drills. The one I purchased is called a Long Series Combined Drill & Countersink. In the States, I found them made by Morse and PROCUT. In high speed steel Morse sells them for $19.95 US, but the cheaper PROCUT #1 (AV5213X) was only $6.85 US.

The silicone 0-ring arrived. I was used to putting  both thumbs on the end of the piston's face and pushing to get it to move down the bore. When I put the silicone ring on, I did the same, and the piston flew down the cylinder!

Definitely not suitable for steam, but since I work with compressed air, I think this the way to go.

When the engine is broken in, perhaps I will go back to that black ring for more compression. But for now, the movenement with the silicone ring is as smooth as silk.
Title: Recycling
Post by: J.L. on July 23, 2018, 08:17:03 PM
Tom, you remember those extra parts that came with the Stuart Beam Engine?

Well, here is an extra governor valve body along with an extruded blank of brass drawn in that shape.

I was going to start fresh and make my own smaller one, but then realized that I couldnt come close to matching the precision of the original part.

So the holes were plugged with turned brass rod and Loctited in place. You can see how close I came to losing the part with my reductions in the second photo.

I have no idea how or where a governor will be worked into this engine, but now was the time to think of one. Real estate will be at a premium on this side of the engine.


No effort was made to cast a pad for an optional governor mount in the base of the engine.
Title: Re: Textile Mill Diorama
Post by: wagnmkr on July 23, 2018, 10:42:38 PM
I remember "somebody" asking if I was sure I didn't need them as "they" wouldn't have a use for them! Well Done John ... and no, they don't fit on my loom.

Cheers

Tom
Title: The Butterfly Valve
Post by: J.L. on July 24, 2018, 03:06:12 PM
Hi Tom,
You were right. Those extra little goodies in that box have found their way to three engines now.

The butterfly valve fascinates me. I've recently learned that on a slow running engine, they deliberately fool the valve by adding a counterweight to the governor to keep the valve open where they want it, since there is not enough centrifugal force to lift the balls.

Learning all these skills to run their engines efficiently must have also fascinated the engineers of the time. Skills that have long disappeared.
Title: The Governor Steam Valve
Post by: J.L. on July 25, 2018, 04:00:23 PM
The valve is operational  (without its linkage).

I was able to find a nice little 0-ring 5/32" I.D. to fit into the stuffing box.

The butterfly valve is fixed with a threaded #0-80 bolt. A rivet was suggested, but this way, I can later disassemble the valve to cut off the excess length of the valve shaft.  The lever will determine that length much later in the build.

I was tempted to use threaded rod for the studs, but wanted smooth rod to show through the mounting openings.
Title: Re: Textile Mill Diorama
Post by: zeeprogrammer on July 25, 2018, 06:14:07 PM
Looks wonderful John.  :ThumbsUp:
Title: Re: Textile Mill Diorama
Post by: J.L. on July 25, 2018, 09:46:56 PM
Thanks Carl.

Marv, do you remember when we bored the tapered holes in the spindle of our PMR engine lathes? I bought the #4 taper reamer to represent that Morse Taper. I think we used it on the drill press quill as well, but I never thought I'd be using mine again.

And here is a #4 taper pin in the crosshead of the mill engine!

The  piston is now hooked up with a nice forward and back stroke.

Time to put the engine in the diorama and have a look see...

Title: Re: Textile Mill Diorama
Post by: Johnmcc69 on July 25, 2018, 09:59:00 PM
John, been following along quietly admiring your work.  :popcorn: :cheers:

 First class.  :ThumbsUp:

 John
Title: Re: Textile Mill Diorama
Post by: mklotz on July 25, 2018, 10:54:30 PM
Marv, do you remember when we bored the tapered holes in the spindle of our PMR engine lathes? I bought the #4 taper reamer to represent that Morse Taper. I think we used it on the drill press quill as well, but I never thought I'd be using mine again.

And here is a #4 taper pin in the crosshead of the mill engine!

I remember it well, John.  In addition to mimicking Morse tapers at 1/12 scale, they work well for making self-aligning structures.  That might be handy for building the engine in a bottle I've been nattering about in another thread.
Title: Looking Back
Post by: J.L. on July 26, 2018, 01:22:40 PM
Hi Marv,
Must find that thread.

Now that I've got an engine that is progressing nicely, I thought I would go back through the files and have a look at the development of the diorama since the project began.

First Photo: Feb. 2, 2018
Second Photo: April 10, 2018
Third photo: July 26, 2018

Title: Re: Textile Mill Diorama
Post by: Kim on July 26, 2018, 02:28:16 PM
Wow! That really compresses a lot of work into three easy photos!
Beautiful work at every stage John.
Kim
Title: The Slide Valve
Post by: J.L. on July 26, 2018, 02:33:41 PM
And so begines the slide valve.

On page 29 of this thread, Tug forwarded a tip given to him by a former member, George 'KBC'. Instead of threading the valve rod and nut, the valve rod is kept smooth with a nicely fitting holein the valve nut to suit. This allows infinite adjustment of the valve. The nut could be easily adjusted back and forth with a hex headed grub screw.

Bill mentioned that allowing the valve to 'float' a bit was also important. I would not want to lock the valve itself to the valve rod. Its four tangs give it some play in the nut.

So I'm going to give it a try. Notice in the photo that the end of the valve rod has a flat filed on it. This is to prevent hydraulic lock in the tail rod guide.

Title: Re: Textile Mill Diorama
Post by: J.L. on July 26, 2018, 02:34:02 PM
Thanks Kim.
John
Title: Re: Textile Mill Diorama
Post by: b.lindsey on July 26, 2018, 04:17:58 PM
Still checking in regularly John. The valve sub- assembly is looking good. Anxious to see how the grub screw adjustment works out for you as well. Since you are still using the nut, that should allow all the "float" you need. I had thought previously that the nut would be eliminated with just a straight holes though the valve slide, hence my concerns.

Bill
Title: Re: Textile Mill Diorama
Post by: J.L. on July 27, 2018, 03:36:47 PM
Thanks Bill. Your three PMR#5 pictures posted on July 4 (reply #139) tell the story of the slotted slide valve and rectangular nut.

A quick question - how deep did you cut the square recess for steam exhaust; 3/32", 1/8"?

I guess depth isn't too important unless you cut into the meat for the four tangs on the ohter side!

John
Title: Re: Textile Mill Diorama
Post by: J.L. on July 27, 2018, 08:08:44 PM
The plans call for a 7/8" square slide valve giving a 1/16" lap.

Looking good so far...
Title: Re: Textile Mill Diorama
Post by: b.lindsey on July 27, 2018, 10:16:04 PM
John, I looked and the recess is 1/16" as noted in the plans for the PMR #5.

Bill
Title: Re: Textile Mill Diorama
Post by: J.L. on July 28, 2018, 09:12:28 PM
Thanks Bill.  I found the depth dimension on another sheet of the plans. The depth is 1/8".

It's interesting how things change. When the original drawings were made in 1946, there was no valve nut at all. A central flat was filed in the valve rod that dropped down into the slide valve's forks. Imagine. Not much room for adjustment or strength there.

Also the cavity in the bottom of the slide valve was rectangular; 1/2" x 5/8".

Winter's 1992 drawings show a modification to the threaded valve nut. The cavity was also drawn square; 1/2"x 1/2" or whatever the distance is between the inner edges of the ports.

This little part is trickier than you would think.

I understand you made a second one out of bar stock. If I screw this cast one up, I may be doing the same.

John

Title: Re: Textile Mill Diorama
Post by: J.L. on July 29, 2018, 02:56:19 PM
The recess has been milled.
I'm finding the circular saw very handy lately. It gives a clean, controlled cut.

Title: A Modified Slide Valve
Post by: J.L. on July 29, 2018, 07:43:57 PM
I think the grub screw in the valve nut is going to work. It certainly will be infinitely adjustable.

It's ready to party! Mind you, it's not hooked up to anything yet... :Lol:
Title: Re: Textile Mill Diorama
Post by: Admiral_dk on July 29, 2018, 09:33:25 PM
Looks like you nailed this perfectly John - all coming together nicely so far  :cheers:

Best wishes

Per
Title: Re: Textile Mill Diorama
Post by: J.L. on July 31, 2018, 06:54:43 PM
Thank you for your kind words. 'So far...' is the operative word.

A considerable amount of time was spent machining the valve rod guide. I like the casting's spine and backward bend as it reaches out from its pad.

I had no idea that I was going to be able to clamp the entire assembled engine on its side in the milling vice to drill the threading holes.  A scary moment...

Title: Re: Textile Mill Diorama
Post by: b.lindsey on July 31, 2018, 07:28:28 PM
Really nice work John!! That should work well though it still seems the steam chest cover has to be removed to adjust the valve rod .

Bill
Title: Re: Textile Mill Diorama
Post by: J.L. on July 31, 2018, 07:46:14 PM
Hi Bill.
Thanks. Yes, the cover would have to be removed to steam or air up for testing, but nothing has to be taken apart to adjust the valve otherwise. That's the beauty of the system.

I was not happy with the first hole drilled in the mill for the support bracket. After threading, the stud was tipping upward. In other words, the hole didn't go in straight.

In this photo, I am using a temporary short cap screw to hold the bracket in place while the other three holes are spotted. Then it's back to the old fashioned egg beater drill for some handwork. At least this way, I can keep an eye on everything already in place.

Title: Re: Textile Mill Diorama
Post by: b.lindsey on July 31, 2018, 07:57:01 PM
I can see now that it would be easier to adjust for sure leaving the rest of the linkage connected. May have to try that!!

Bill
Title: Re: Textile Mill Diorama
Post by: zeeprogrammer on July 31, 2018, 08:53:29 PM
Just catching up John.  :ThumbsUp:

Excellent (and pretty fast) progress.

I like that grub screw on the valve rod idea.
Title: Re: Textile Mill Diorama
Post by: J.L. on August 01, 2018, 07:29:30 PM
Thanks Carl.

I'll be able to try out the adjustment using that grub screw when the eccentrics go into place.

The slide valve rod support is now in place. It allows the rod to move smoothly back and forth. A lot of trimming was done to its back to get it into position. No shims.  :)

Title: Re: Textile Mill Diorama
Post by: b.lindsey on August 01, 2018, 10:09:34 PM
Looks good John. I am sure you are glad to get that behind you. Tricky part to get aligned well.

Bill
Title: Re: Textile Mill Diorama
Post by: wagnmkr on August 02, 2018, 01:17:53 PM
It's all looking rather nice John. Another job well done!

Cheers

Tom
Title: Re: Textile Mill Diorama
Post by: J.L. on August 02, 2018, 06:59:02 PM
Thank you Bill and Tom.

A lot of satisfaction was achieved when that valve rod finally slid into the steam chest gland.

I must say, using 0-rings really helps in those stuffing boxes. You can feel the gentle resistance while holding and sliding the rod. The gland hole itself can actually be slightly larger.  It really is just a clamp holding the 0-ring in place. And because the gland is stud mounted, the pressure on the rod can be gently adjusted.
Title: Re: Textile Mill Diorama
Post by: scc on August 02, 2018, 09:10:05 PM
Lovely work...............Terry
Title: To Date
Post by: J.L. on August 03, 2018, 02:24:22 PM
Thanks Terry.

Here is the front half of the diorama to date...
Title: Re: Textile Mill Diorama
Post by: zeeprogrammer on August 03, 2018, 02:47:46 PM
Beautiful!  :ThumbsUp:
Title: The Eccentric Starps
Post by: J.L. on August 04, 2018, 02:58:36 PM
Thanks Carl.

A deep centre line for cutting was imbedded when the eccentric straps were cast.  This helped cut them with the mill saw.

I am getting out of my depth here with what's coming. I will be asking for advice as we proceed.

Title: Machining the Eccentric
Post by: J.L. on August 04, 2018, 07:34:06 PM
There seems to be a number of ways to cut the eccentric to mate with the strap. One method as I see it, is to cut a groove in the strap. This I would find extremely difficult as I would have to make an 'L' shaped cutter like a hex wrench and cut into the interior wall of the strap in the centre of its width. The eccentric would have a raised groove to ride in this internal groove in the strap.

The other way seems more manageable for me.Reverse things and cut a track in the eccentric with raised edges. The strap would ride in this groove with shoulders cut to allow it to sit down on the track.

I assume the journal or main part of the eccentric is cut on centre and then moved to the required offset.

The construction plans seem much more complicated with the use of a stub mandrel.

Thoughts?

John

Title: Re: Textile Mill Diorama
Post by: crueby on August 04, 2018, 08:10:48 PM
Thats the way I usually do it, with the groove in the eccentric cut with a parting tool, and widen out the hole edges in the sides of the straps to leave the tenon in the center hole. With that arrangement you can cut everything with standard cutters, and the end result looks the same when assembled.
Title: Re: Machining the Eccentric
Post by: zeeprogrammer on August 04, 2018, 08:29:50 PM
cut a track in the eccentric with raised edges. The strap would ride in this groove with shoulders cut to allow it to sit down on the track.

I'm not sure I understand. What is meant by 'shoulders'? Wouldn't the strap ride in the groove and be held by the raised edges?
Is it because the thickness of the strap is the same (or thicker) than the groove plus the width of the two edges?
Or is the thickness of the strap equal to the width of the eccentric groove?

Not that I have a whole lot of experience but I do it the way Chris mentioned. And I drill/ream for the main crank then offset for turning/drilling/reaming the eccentric. All done on 4-jaw.
Title: Re: Machining the Eccentric
Post by: crueby on August 04, 2018, 08:35:28 PM
cut a track in the eccentric with raised edges. The strap would ride in this groove with shoulders cut to allow it to sit down on the track.

I'm not sure I understand. What is meant by 'shoulders'? Wouldn't the strap ride in the groove and be held by the raised edges?
Is it because the thickness of the strap is the same (or thicker) than the groove plus the width of the two edges?
Or is the thickness of the strap equal to the width of the eccentric groove?

Not that I have a whole lot of experience but I do it the way Chris mentioned. And I drill/ream for the main crank then offset for turning/drilling/reaming the eccentric. All done on 4-jaw.
I am probably not using the right terminology, but this shows what I mean. The groove is in the eccentric, and the shoulders of the hole in the strap are taken back to leave a tenon in the center. The width of the groove, the way I do it, is either one parting-tool-width, or wider, and the tenon is sized to be a close sliding fit within that.
(https://s5.postimg.cc/vie542n0n/Image2.jpg)
As Zee mentions, the groove could also be made the width of the strap, then the strap is simpler, but the eccentric needs to be wider to put the edges of the groove in beyond the strap.
Title: Re: Textile Mill Diorama
Post by: J.L. on August 04, 2018, 08:38:27 PM
Thanks Chris.

I like the idea of cutting a groove in the eccentric with a sharp parting tool as well. :)

Can I assume then, that the large hole in the strap be could be cut first to set a given diameter for the tracking groove in the eccentric?

Because the strap is bolted together, it could easily be taken apart and straddled around the eccentric (while the eccentric is still in the jaws) for testing the tenon (with side shoulder cuts already anticipated in the strap).

The only problem I see there is that the strap has to be flipped round in the 4-jaw to make these relief cuts if they are not correct the first time. Resettisng a part exactly in the jaws eadh time has never been a strong point for me. 

John

P.S. Thanks Chris for the explanatory labelled picture. It came in while I was typing a reply to your helpful post.
Title: Re: Textile Mill Diorama
Post by: crueby on August 04, 2018, 09:00:55 PM
Yup - I usually make the strap first, then the eccentric to fit. You are right about the second side, though if you have a boring bar with a steep angle on the inside edge, you can cut both sides in one chucking, it just leaves a slight angle on one side of the tenon, but so what? It will not be seen, and that way you are sure the holes are all concentric.
Title: Re: Textile Mill Diorama
Post by: zeeprogrammer on August 04, 2018, 09:05:53 PM
Can I assume then, that the large hole in the strap be could be cut first to set a given diameter for the tracking groove in the eccentric?

Because the strap is bolted together, it could easily be taken apart and straddled around the eccentric (while the eccentric is still in the jaws) for testing the tenon (with side shoulder cuts already anticipated in the strap).

That's my thinking. But I'll have a question shortly about the shoulders.

The only problem I see there is that the strap has to be flipped round in the 4-jaw to make these relief cuts if they are not correct the first time. Resettisng a part exactly in the jaws eadh time has never been a strong point for me. 

If the strap is done right then it's the eccentric (edges and/or groove) that gets adjusted to match. If the eccentric is done first (and correctly) then it may not be just the shoulders that need adjusting.

Going back to the shoulders...I've never done one that way (again...very limited experience) so I'm curious as to their advantage and/or need.

...just saw Chris's post...so that kind of addresses my thought on strap first.
Title: Re: Textile Mill Diorama
Post by: crueby on August 04, 2018, 09:09:25 PM
If you have the groove narrower than the straps, then you need the shoulders on the strap to form the tenon. The advantage of this method is that the two straps (in a reversing engine) can be butted right up to each other, saving space on the crankshaft. Even if there is only one strap, it saves space. If space is not an issue, then making the groove the width of the strap is a simpler build all the way around.
Title: Re: Textile Mill Diorama
Post by: zeeprogrammer on August 04, 2018, 09:18:26 PM
Even if there is only one strap, it saves space.

I think I understand. There's a minimum thickness to the strap (at least enough for bolts to put it together not to mention the rod it connects).
With shoulders, the eccentric can be the same width.
Without shoulders, the eccentric has to be wider in order to provide the edges.
Thanks.

Apologies to John.
Title: Re: Textile Mill Diorama
Post by: J.L. on August 04, 2018, 10:18:28 PM
No apologies necessary Carl. It's all about learning and sharing.

Here's a scary photo. I set up the strap this way just for the shot. It's not centered at all or has no brass shims under the jaws.

But it does bring up a number of idle thoughts. In a perfect world, this strap would be thinned down on each side of the through bolts on a flat table. But I see no way of clamping it. If it were made of ferrous material, the pros would probably use a magnetic table. I have to shave material off both sides of the strap equally by resetting in the 4-jaw each time?  :-\

Second, the hole has no centre and is oval. :???: They over-compensated for the kerf thickness. It did not close up the casting to a round hole at all.

Third, I've never bored a hole with a boring tool in my life.  ::)

In a perfect world again, the pros probably would come up with a way of using CNC equipment to get a centered hole with concentric shoulder allowances on each side.

Must think about milling equal amount of material off both sides some other way.

Title: Re: Textile Mill Diorama
Post by: wagnmkr on August 04, 2018, 10:36:47 PM
John, I would say you have it just about right. Put some flat packing up against the chuck, behind you piece. Double sided tap will hold the packing in. Center two opposite sides of the opening at a time. (The long part of the oval and then the short sides of the oval.)

Just take a very light skim of one side, just enough to get a good surface. Then flip it around and do the other side to size.

That is how I have done it before.

I am going to be in your neck of the woods on Monday morning if you would like some help.

Tom

Tom
Title: Re: Textile Mill Diorama
Post by: J.L. on August 04, 2018, 10:57:05 PM
Monday sound great Tom.

Thanks for the support. But have a look at this photo. I got thinking about having the strap sit flat so that equal amounts of material could be cut from each side.

Also, I've heard of some kind of fly cutters that spin to cut holes. A possibility, but your idea of packing and boring with a boring tool may be better.

I'll go ahead and bring the straps to 5/16"; 3/16" for the track and 1/6" for the flange on each side.

John

Title: Re: Textile Mill Diorama
Post by: wagnmkr on August 05, 2018, 01:37:49 AM
That will work for the thickness John.

All that you need for boring the inside diameter is a regular cutting tool that is ground for left hand cutting. That can be mounted in the tool post like a boring bar. The bar works as well. I have a strong one if you need it.

10am Monday?

Tom
Title: Re: Textile Mill Diorama
Post by: J.L. on August 09, 2018, 12:44:16 PM
Tom, thank you for a wonderful visit. Your help in suggesting how to proceed with the straps and eccentrics was very much a ppreciated.

Here are some photos of the first strap finished. I have a story to tell about the second one, but here are some shots showing my first boring attempt at making a strap.

The bore is 1 1/4"; the shoulder 1 3/8". In the first shot, the strap has been turned around in the chuck so that the second side can be faced and shouldered. Getting the part zeroed in was important to get the shoulder concentric with the already bored hole.



Title: Customer Service
Post by: J.L. on August 09, 2018, 01:09:16 PM
The pictures above show the second strap. I was not so lucky with the first one. I felt very proud of myself after completing the boring and shouldering of the first one. The only thing left to do was drill an angled hole for the oil hole in the back of the strap.

You gueseed it. Half way through, the drill snapped! Game over. The part was ruined.   :-[

I fussed and fussed trying to come up with some way of saving that part. No go. I went upstairs and sent an email to the company where I bought the castings in Bathurst, New South Wales, Australia explaining the situation. This would be yesterday afternoon.

This morning I received a very nice email from sales at E & J Winter - Bolton Scale Models. The part will be replaced free of charge. I want to use the name of the kind gentleman whol sent me this most accommodating email, but have not had an opportunity to ask permission to use his name on this forum.  He should be recognized.

We read of displeasure with some scale model companies specializing in cast kits for engines, but here is an example of exemplary, quick  customer service.

BTW
Instead of an angled oil hole, which does look a little raw, a vertical hole was drilled and tapped for an oil cup on the second strap. Then a cross hole was drilled in from the back and angled down slightly to enter the raceway.  It was plugged with a very short cosmetic brass piece of round rod. Care was taken to make sure that little piece did not interfere with the oil flow from the cup above.

John



Title: Re: Textile Mill Diorama
Post by: b.lindsey on August 09, 2018, 04:20:00 PM
The strap looks very nice John. It's always nice to find suppliers that are so accommodating too, and we need to recognize them.

Bill
Title: Machining the Eccentric
Post by: J.L. on August 09, 2018, 08:01:26 PM
Thanks Bill.
Right on. That will happen.

There are so many ways of arriving at the same point, but I am going to go about making this eccentric a way that makes sense to me. The construction notes suggest moving the eccentric its offset distance (3/16") first to drill and ream the axle hole. In these photos, you can quickly see dead centre. Offsetting would be very easy to do at this stage.

But then a stub mandrel would have to be made to hold the eccentric with a bolt. The stub mandrel would be offset after making. That sounds to me to be a lot of extra work and hints at errors in concentricity. It is mentioned that a friction fit would be required as well as the bolt and that if the eccentric slips on the mandrel, Loctite could be used. Hmm.....

I plan to leave the eccentric alone as you see it here and machine the outside of the eccentric's rim with track and shoulders. Then, the part will be offset for drilling.

The only donwside I see here is that all the waste material at the back of the eccentric will have to be carefuly removed to keep the front and back faces parallel.

At least that's the plan.  :)

Edit:
I guess a stub mandral would make it easier to remove all that waste material on the backside. Also, you wouldn't have to grip or perhaps mar the eccentric's rim.
Title: Textile Mill Diorama
Post by: BAH on August 10, 2018, 03:32:48 AM
I broke a tap in a brass casting a couple of years ago. I soaked the part in a Alum-water mix then sat it on top of one of those candle warmer plates. Three days later, the tap was a fine sludge.
Title: Re: Textile Mill Diorama
Post by: J.L. on August 11, 2018, 06:12:43 PM
Interesting.

I created a situation for myself by chucking the eccentric by its little cast stub.

Now that the track has been cut, it's time to offset the eccentric. But I suspect that the little stub will not move laterally properly or may even foul the vertical jaws. And of course it could tip in the precess and begin to wobble.

I decided to remove the 4-jaw and not move the eccentric at all but use the milling table instead.  You can see the offset in the second and third picture.
 The offset is 5/32" for this smaller eccentric.

It looks as though I'm going to be using a stub mandrel to finish this project after all.

Title: Re: Textile Mill Diorama
Post by: J.L. on August 11, 2018, 09:25:29 PM
The mounting pins on the 4-jaw were removed and the chuck was clamped to the milling table.

The 7/16" axle hole has been drilled and reamed.

Title: Re: Textile Mill Diorama
Post by: J.L. on August 12, 2018, 03:18:30 PM
The eccentric was cut from its stub with a hacksaw and mounted on a brass stub mandrel. I was very happy to see it still running true. The hole is parallel to the track in the eccentric. There is no wavering of the part at all on the mandrel.

I have been lucky with this stub mandrel. The eccentric was lightly tapped onto it with a wooden mallet. Hopefully a set screw will not be necessary as both sides of the eccentric is faced and shouldered.

In the second photo, you can see that with a few more cuts, the face will true to the edge of the part.

Title: Re: Textile Mill Diorama
Post by: b.lindsey on August 12, 2018, 04:41:16 PM
Nicely done John!!

Bill
Title: Re: Textile Mill Diorama
Post by: J.L. on August 12, 2018, 08:33:53 PM
 Thanks Bill,

I find that the finished eccentric with its strap is too thick. It is supposed to finish at only 5/16" thickness. I remember Chris mentioning that they have to be very thin to allow more than one to work side by side on the crankshaft between the bearing and the takeoff pulley.

On many eccentrics, for this very reason there is no boss on either side. I knew this, but was letting the drawing through me off.

I will remove the boss from each side and thin everything down. Looks like I'll be resawing sawdust here, but if I don't get those eccentrics with their straps very thin, there will be problems down the road.

Title: Re: Textile Mill Diorama
Post by: derekwarner on August 12, 2018, 11:39:11 PM
JL...does your eccentric disk not have a tapping on this diameter to lock it onto the crankshaft?.....if so would easily accommodate to lock the disk to the brass stub shaft in the lathe for reducing the disk width evenly ...Derek
Title: Re: Textile Mill Diorama
Post by: J.L. on August 13, 2018, 02:12:29 AM
Hi Derek,

Yes, this I know. The set screw will go directly down the centre of the track and secure the eccentric to the shaft. It's a long thread down, so often the top half of the hole is enlarged to allow a grub screw to engage a little further down.

I mentioned the drawing and the construction notes were throwing me off. They show and describe a boss on both sides of the eccentric.

As you say, a much thinner eccentric will be produced with them removed. I will also recheck the strap to bring it exactly to 5/16".

Thanks for the input.

John
Title: Re: Textile Mill Diorama
Post by: J.L. on August 13, 2018, 02:30:36 PM
The pump eccentric is complete.

Derek, you pointed out the use of a set screw in the journal of the eccentric. I have found it a nuisance having to tear down a train of parts to get the strap removed so that that set screw can be used to adjust the location of the journal.

With a long boss, the set screw is external and easy to adjust while everything is hooked up. You are ready for immediate testing of the parts new location.

But with engines where space on the axle is at a premium, there is no other choice but to locate the set screw in the journal.

That's the case here, the eccentrics work in close proximity; one driving the pump and the other one operating the slide valve in the valve chest.

Title: Re: Textile Mill Diorama
Post by: J.L. on August 13, 2018, 05:48:31 PM
So here is the eccentric on the shaft.

Do you see a problem developing?  :-\

Look at the second shot. I set a piece of brass pipe as a straight edge to see where it would land on the shaft from the fork on the slide valve rod.

There is not going to be enough room for the valve eccentric as it stands.  :shrug:

I'll worry about that later after I get the pump mounted.
Title: Re: Textile Mill Diorama
Post by: 10KPete on August 13, 2018, 05:56:13 PM
It is not unusual for a valve rod to have an offset bend to allow for such conditions...

Looking great!!

Pete
Title: Re: Textile Mill Diorama
Post by: zeeprogrammer on August 13, 2018, 06:06:08 PM
Here's a shot of mine with bent valve rods.
Looks like yours won't need as much bending.

I think I've seen some where the two bends are closer together but I think I prefer them further apart.
Title: Re: Textile Mill Diorama
Post by: J.L. on August 13, 2018, 07:56:19 PM
Thanks Pete and Carl.

Nice engine Carl.

Yes, a bent rod would work.  I like the idea of a tapered straight rod flaring out into mountings at both ends.

I am motivated to make that pump now - it will be a faux pump, so I can take liberties.  ::)

But before I start it, I wanted to post a couple of pictures of our much neglected room on the other side of the diorama. You can see the engine through the window and actually the eccentric just mounted!



Title: Re: Textile Mill Diorama
Post by: b.lindsey on August 14, 2018, 12:33:46 AM
I see a PMR wood lathe in your future, but what is the other casting set? Ditto on the bent rod idea, should solve your problem.

Bill
Title: Re: Textile Mill Diorama
Post by: zeeprogrammer on August 14, 2018, 02:56:21 AM
I see a PMR wood lathe in your future, but what is the other casting set?

Yeah. I was wondering too.

Well...I was wondering about both but Bill gave me the answer on one.
Title: Re: Textile Mill Diorama
Post by: J.L. on August 14, 2018, 10:17:38 AM
The second kit is a 1/12" scale replica model of a 1912 Crescent saw table. It will have both a fence and a crosscut mitre with quite a sharp circular saw blade mounted on its arbour.

Thanks for asksing.

John
Title: Re: Textile Mill Diorama
Post by: mklotz on August 14, 2018, 03:34:24 PM
I see a PMR wood lathe in your future, but what is the other casting set?

Yeah. I was wondering too.

Well...I was wondering about both but Bill gave me the answer on one.

Looks like this when finished, Zee

(https://www.use.com/images/s_2/143ee8efa76a743c3a45_33.jpg) (https://www.use.com/143ee8efa76a743c3a45?p=33)
(https://www.use.com/images/clicklarge3.gif) (https://www.use.com/143ee8efa76a743c3a45?p=33)
(https://www.use.com/images/s_2/143ee8efa76a743c3a45_35.jpg) (https://www.use.com/143ee8efa76a743c3a45?p=35)
(https://www.use.com/images/clicklarge3.gif) (https://www.use.com/143ee8efa76a743c3a45?p=35)
(https://www.use.com/images/s_2/143ee8efa76a743c3a45_38.jpg) (https://www.use.com/143ee8efa76a743c3a45?p=38)
(https://www.use.com/images/clicklarge3.gif) (https://www.use.com/143ee8efa76a743c3a45?p=38)
Title: Re: Textile Mill Diorama
Post by: b.lindsey on August 14, 2018, 04:39:23 PM
Thanks John. I should have recognized it but now I know  :)

Bill
Title: Re: Textile Mill Diorama
Post by: J.L. on August 15, 2018, 08:24:25 PM
You are very welcome Bill.

The water pump is a nice visual on this engine, but that's all it will be. I think it has every angle known to geometry in it somewhere. A suggestion was made to use a 4-jaw chuck to hold it.

I am using the milling machine as much as I can.

Two internal balls in conjunction with a ram lift and deliver water. Water is sucked up from below the engine. Because textile mills were often located near water, water would be drawn up into the pump by pipe from a cistern, a mill pond or a nearby river.   So on the model a pipe goes down through the floor.  I think a steel floor plate will be in order.

Note that the casting's face is "off" the centreline at this point.
Title: Re: Textile Mill Diorama
Post by: J.L. on August 17, 2018, 09:11:40 PM
I thought I would take a rare one-time shot of the engine dismounted from its diorama setting. It had to be removed and  placed on the milling table for the drilling of two final holes for threading.

The feed pump will be mounted on its pad with two threaded studs. You can see them to the right of the crosshead.




 
Title: Re: Textile Mill Diorama
Post by: wagnmkr on August 17, 2018, 11:59:02 PM
Looking pretty sharp John!

Tom
Title: Re: Textile Mill Diorama
Post by: J.L. on August 19, 2018, 08:50:40 PM
Thanks Tom.

I had a serendipitous experience with the drilling of three equidistant holes around a false flange. I turned the brass flange out of a piece of hex stock. So when it came time to dirll the holes, every other hex point indicated the location of the holes!

Totally unplanned.

The last photo shows a pipe threaded into the flange and stopping. It doesn't. The pipe is threaded further down to engage in the part to which it appears to be attached by the three steel bolts.

A little bit of smoke and mirrors there.



Title: Re: Textile Mill Diorama
Post by: J.L. on August 20, 2018, 12:43:43 PM
Since I have been working with piping and flanges, I wanted to mention that where I fall down most with historical accuracy is that I do not use proper bolted pipe flanges that have a flat face. Today, they are most noticable in pipelines where they lower the flanged pipes into the ground and bolt them together.

I do not know when pipefitters switched over to threaded pipes. When they did, they had to use unions where they could not rotate the pipe.

I have been using tapered pipe taps and dies. They are great for snugging up fittings and preventing leakages, but often a lot of thread is left exposed.

To get a more realistic clean shoulder with threads, I have switched from MPT taps and dies to straight ones. I also found out that 3/16" brass pipe can be threaded #10-40. The existing threads in the fittings are redrilled and rethreaded. (You can buy pre-threaded fittings with straight threads.)

Here is a PMR bronze elbow with a tighter shoulder using straight threads. I think it's a claner look.


Title: Re: Textile Mill Diorama
Post by: Roger B on August 20, 2018, 01:18:42 PM
Still following along quietly and enjoying your attention to detail  :praise2:  :wine1:

I have also wondered about the different types of prototypical pipe fittings and how much is size dependent. Maybe screwed fittings up to 150mm/6" and then flanges ?  :headscratch: Flange fittings are probably better for fixing to cylinders etc. I have used both although I am not claiming any prototypical accuracy  ::)
Title: Re: Textile Mill Diorama
Post by: MJM460 on August 20, 2018, 01:33:39 PM
My work in the hydrocarbon processing industry followed many different Client standards.  However, generally, threaded (NPT) was used below 2 inch, and flanges 2 inch and above, though occasionally threaded extended to include two inch.

That said, larger screwed fittings are sometimes used in larger sizes for non-hazardous fluids such as potable water or fire water.  I once had to specify six inch screwed piping for a fire water system on an operating off shore platform, as welding was not allowed.  However, I seem to remember that in the end, they welded it anyway, as those large sizes of screwed threads were unmanageable.

Everything else was flanged, or just welded, and for some hazardous fluids, flanges are used down to half inch, then tubing for smaller sizes.  Unions are considered unreliable for joints that have to be taken apart many times.  Flanges, you just use a new gasket and proper torquing to get a good joint as often as necessary.

Normally flanges to join to equipment castings, though sometimes screwed bushes for small sizes such as vents and drains.

Pipes in refineries, gas plants and larger petrochemical plants are all American standard, so inch sizes.

MJM460
Title: Re: Textile Mill Diorama
Post by: J.L. on August 20, 2018, 02:07:48 PM
Thanks Roger.

Thank you MJM460 for this excellent treatise on pipe and flange. This would be good material to share in an information section.

It looks as though the general rule for choosing the connection then was diameter dependent.

Appreciated.

John
Title: Re: Textile Mill Diorama
Post by: J.L. on August 21, 2018, 04:01:42 PM
Once again, the square collet block is pressed into service. I find it excellent for milling, drilling and shaping round stock.

The engine's pump is now installed.
Title: Re: Textile Mill Diorama
Post by: Brian Rupnow on August 21, 2018, 04:28:26 PM
John--You are doing some very fine work there.---Brian
Title: Re: Textile Mill Diorama
Post by: zeeprogrammer on August 21, 2018, 05:38:43 PM
Fantastic looking engine.  :ThumbsUp:
Title: Re: Textile Mill Diorama
Post by: J.L. on August 21, 2018, 07:12:18 PM
Thank you Brian from one Canuck to another.

Hi Carl.
I agree. I think this is one of the nicest looking horizontal mill engines available in a casting kit. Some of the parts that would be wrought in iron or steel are cast in gun metal, but the principle parts are all there in cast iron.

Cheers...John
Title: Offset Knuckle
Post by: J.L. on August 22, 2018, 07:28:11 PM
I was not keen on bending a connecting rod to join up with the valve rod to accommodate the clearances needed for the next eccentric. I don't think that practice was prototypical anyway.

So I have made an offset knuckle that threads onto the end of the valve rod. The offset is not objectionable in the photo and may not be noticed. But it will move the con rod out a full 1/8".

With this knuckle and wrist pin made, I can now finish the delivery tube that pumps water down through the floor and over to the boiler.

Title: Re: Textile Mill Diorama
Post by: crueby on August 22, 2018, 08:02:29 PM
Coming along great, very nice finish on everything.


 :popcorn:
Title: Water Pressure
Post by: J.L. on August 22, 2018, 10:16:54 PM
Thanks Chris. Appreciated.

I have drilled the second hole in the pedestal for the delivery pipe to the boiler.

I have a question about the water that is being pressurized and delivered by the engine's pump. When the engine is running, the pump never stops.

In my mind, this creates a problem. If you have a shut off vave at the boiler, that is not going to stop the water pressure from increasing. The  pressure continues to build as the ram pumps water. What prevents the pipes from bursting?

To prevent the pipes from exploding, there must be some way of diverting the water being pumped back into the river or some other reservoir. Does that mean that someone has to physically be present to watch a water pressure gauge and manually divert the water?

Curious.  :thinking:

Title: Re: Textile Mill Diorama
Post by: b.lindsey on August 22, 2018, 10:28:08 PM
Looks good John. Smoke and mirrors are fine too  ;)

Bill
Title: Re: Textile Mill Diorama
Post by: ddmckee54 on August 22, 2018, 10:49:18 PM
There are several different ways of doing that.  It could be a simple as a manual bypass valve to send the extra water back to the tank or to a drain when the desired boiler level was reached.  If the steam usage isn't too high it will probably be a manual system.  On a larger system that would go through a lot of water, an automatic fill system could have been built using floats inside the boiler water jacket to control both the boiler level and the bypass.  Either way you are still going to have a boiler operator going by at regular intervals to be sure the boiler is running OK and not going to go BOOM.

In the older more manual systems it is a balancing act between having a hot enough fire to have the steam when you need it and yet not wasting fuel by generating more steam than you need.

Don
Title: Re: Textile Mill Diorama
Post by: crueby on August 22, 2018, 11:54:56 PM
On Kozo's design for his Shay (and I am sure in many other places, that is just the one I know) he has a valve on the water line into the boiler to allow controlling the flow. There is a check valve going into the boiler after the valve, so that the pumped water has to push open the ball valve to push its way into the boiler. When the control valve is open, the water has an easier path back to the water tank, and the check valve keeps the pressure inside the boiler.
Title: Re: Textile Mill Diorama
Post by: J.L. on August 23, 2018, 11:08:55 AM
Thanks Bill and Don.

Yes, Chris, when I was researching the boiler, I encorporated a lot of the items you are mentioning into its design.
Title: Re: Textile Mill Diorama
Post by: J.L. on August 23, 2018, 05:31:05 PM
The pump piping is now in place with a steel (plastic) split floor plate.

I installed a tee in the line so that the fellows in the engine room could add a spigot to draw water if they so desired.



Title: Drain Cocks
Post by: J.L. on August 23, 2018, 08:43:49 PM
My water heater has a safety blow off valve with an attached pipe that blows down if necessary.

I have seen drain cocks either joined together with a tee and a down pipe, or each cock with its own pipe curving and travelling downward.

So, it is assumed that condensed water in the cylinder could be safely diverted.

I was planning on having a copper pan placed under the exhaust pipe. Over time, I assume the pan would accumulate sludge of oil and water. I wouldn't want water from the drain cocks to blow into this pan as well. It could create quite a mess.

So does it sound reasonable to separate the two systems and have the larger exhaust pipe exit into the pan and the smaller pipes go down through the concrete pedistal and presumabley vent below? 

I like the idea of the exhaust pipe venting into the pan on the pedestal. You can hear the exhaust.

Of course, the other option is to do nothing with the drain cocks at all and assume they can be safely blown off into open air.

Thoughts?


Title: Line Shaft Hangers
Post by: J.L. on August 27, 2018, 09:32:44 PM
While waiting for some fittings, I thought I'd have a go again at line shaft hangers.

They are quite interesting to make. The first photo was taken today, but I found some old photos of them I used in a couple of jokes.

In the third photo, the bearings are just wandering aroung trying to get their bearings...

In the fourth photo the bearing with the 'white hat' does not want to be the one up front to tell the others that they are about to get the shaft...

Sorry about that.


Title: Re: Textile Mill Diorama
Post by: zeeprogrammer on August 27, 2018, 10:14:13 PM
 :facepalm2:
Title: Re: Textile Mill Diorama
Post by: crueby on August 27, 2018, 10:28:47 PM
 :ROFL:
Title: Re: Textile Mill Diorama
Post by: J.L. on August 28, 2018, 02:09:12 PM
With this kind of projecct on the go, it's easy to keep several irons in the fire at the same time.

I continue to find the threading device very handy for the threading of small holes. Here, a # 1-72 tap is being threaded into a #53 hole in the cap of a hanger just to see if there will be enough clearance when it is enlarged.

Also some beamwork is beginning in anticipation of flooring and the mounting of lights and hangers.

As well, the piping is being brought in from the boiler room to hook up with the steam chest valve.

Note the unforgiving camera eye has picked up on the uneven studs protruding from the valve chest flange. Never noticed this until I saw it in the photo.
Title: Re: Textile Mill Diorama
Post by: J.L. on August 28, 2018, 07:30:16 PM
A little .026" jeweller's circular saw made short work of cutting the top portions of the hangers.
Title: Line Shaft Bearings
Post by: J.L. on August 29, 2018, 08:11:38 PM
A generous amount of 3/8" square brass was provided in the line shaft hanger kit for chucking.

The first step shown here is the milling of the track slots for the bearings.

Title: The Line Shaft Hanger Bearings
Post by: J.L. on August 29, 2018, 10:12:13 PM
Before leaving the mill/drill I located centre of the bearings and drilled a 1/8" hole followed by a #2 centre drill that created a chamfer that will help centre the bearing on a dead centre in the 4-jaw chuck.
Title: Re: Textile Mill Diorama
Post by: zeeprogrammer on August 29, 2018, 10:32:26 PM
I'm watching closely.

Not just in admiration...but I learn a lot here.

I have some of those line shaft hangers. I have the model lathe as well and would like to do a small diorama.
Yet another project on my list.
Title: Re: Textile Mill Diorama
Post by: b.lindsey on August 29, 2018, 10:36:54 PM
Me too John. Everything is coming together nicely.

Bill
Title: Re: Textile Mill Diorama
Post by: propforward on August 29, 2018, 11:18:01 PM
Superb work - and a really creative way to display everything. Very impressive indeed.

Thanks for taking the time and trouble to post it all step by step. There is a wealth of info here on valuable techniques.
Title: Re: Textile Mill Diorama
Post by: J.L. on August 30, 2018, 12:58:49 PM
Thank you gentlemen for the kind words. A lot of the enjoyment with this hobby is the sharing of information I learn as I bumble along!

You are right Carl. A small diorama does tell a story. I think it gives the model purpose and draws the viewer's attention to imagine what it would be like to see themselves in that setting. Remember the small Benson diorama? Can you see yourself there? I can still see myself climbing those stairs in the beam engine diorama.

The next step in making the bearings is drilling their 3/16" line shaft holes. Using a 4-jaw has been a learning curve for me. Learning to use a second key was a great help. Using the dial indicator was another challenge.

But with the square stock being used here, the hole simplified the task greatly.  But I learned quickly that you can not depend on the dead centre in the tailstock quill to do the job for you. If you wind it in and tighten the jaws, I guarentee the jaws will draw the centre off somewhere.

Winding the tip of the morse taper out a half turn is the way to go. You can clearly see what is going on as you tighten the opposing jaws.When you think you have the hole centred, then you can wind the centre in until it touches. It should not move at all. If it does, back off and make some more adjustments.

I'm sure there are other ways of going about this, but this method works for me.  :)

Title: Re: Textile Mill Diorama
Post by: J.L. on August 30, 2018, 02:35:48 PM
The first one off the assembly line...
Title: Re: Textile Mill Diorama
Post by: mklotz on August 30, 2018, 03:16:26 PM
But I learned quickly that you can not depend on the dead centre in the tailstock quill to do the job for you. If you wind it in and tighten the jaws, I guarentee the jaws will draw the centre off somewhere.

Winding the tip of the morse taper out a half turn is the way to go. You can clearly see what is going on as you tighten the opposing jaws.When you think you have the hole centred, then you can wind the centre in until it touches. It should not move at all. If it does, back off and make some more adjustments.

I'm sure there are other ways of going about this, but this method works for me. 

What you need, John, is a pump center.

Take a six inch or so rod and make a 60 deg conical hole in one end and a 60 deg point on the other end.  The male end goes in the hole to be centered and the female end goes onto the TS center.  Now, as the part rotates, the end near the hole will move radially - a motion you can detect with your DI.

The advantage of this approach is that, unlike the radially fixed TS center, the end of the pump center can't exert radial force on the part.

Fancier versions of this spring load the rod but that isn't really necessary.
Title: Re: Textile Mill Diorama
Post by: J.L. on August 30, 2018, 04:01:30 PM
Hi Marv,
Another case of flying by the seat of my pants.
Now I know how it's done by the pros.
Thanks,
John
Title: Re: Textile Mill Diorama
Post by: J.L. on August 30, 2018, 09:42:31 PM
PMR is known for using a lot of Phillister headed slot screws. Historically, hex headed bolts would have been used here. This time I just went with them.
Also, I do not believe socket headed cap screw were around at the turn of the century either.

Of course, if you start noting every litttle discrepancy in historical dioramas, the list would be long. I don't even think brass pipe was in use...

These little line shaft hangers are deceptively labour intensive. Tolerences with the two bolts that hold the cap on the hanger are very tight. It would be so easy to break through the side walls.

 
Title: Re: Textile Mill Diorama
Post by: Ian S C on August 31, 2018, 02:53:19 AM
The way I centre the work in the 4 jaw chuck, is to use 2 centres, I place one between the tailstock centre and a centre hole in the work, then bring the DTI up to the loose centre at the work end.
Ian S C
Title: Re: Textile Mill Diorama
Post by: J.L. on August 31, 2018, 01:13:53 PM
Thanks Ian.
And Marv as well. I understand the process now.

These bearings were a good place to learn this process. What I did was not that critical beause the bearing floats up and down, and laterally to compenstate for any discrepencies in alignment. But when it comes time to centre something critical, you both have taught me well.

By the way, I have seen pictures of line shaft hanger bearings on gimbals. Imagine how difficult it must have been back then to maintain line shafts when their bearings were mounted in mills with wooden beams sitting on brick walls. 

Chas A Strelinger & Company's 1895 Book of Tools, Machinery and Supplies show many styles from pages 352 to 357 along with the shafting.
Title: A Governor?
Post by: J.L. on August 31, 2018, 02:07:05 PM
I'm not sure at all how to connect a governor to this engine, but I'm wiling to give it a try.

Last year, I purchased a set of castings for a Ferrabee Column Engine 1862. I was disappointed with the castings of the column - nothing more than pipe, but included was a set of laser cut parts. They sat around and rusted. But today, with a thought of adding a governor to the engine, they may come to life.

You may recall, I made provision for this possibility earlier with the addition of a steam chest fitting on top.

Here a lower arm is mounted in the vice ready for cutting a hinge slot.

Obviously, the replacement strap from Australia has not yet arrived.

Edit: Thinking that I could use the lazer cut arms for the governor turns out to be wishful thinking. There is only upper arm on the metal sprue 'tree'.   :shrug:

They will have to be cut from 1/4" square mild steel using a square collet.
Title: Governor Upper Arms Part 1
Post by: J.L. on September 02, 2018, 02:39:55 PM
I have never regretted buying square collets and a tailstock die threading device. Both came into play here at the metal lathe.

The workpiece was progressively drawn out from the collet as it was cut to diameter with only a parting tool.

Title: Cross Arms
Post by: J.L. on September 04, 2018, 07:08:54 PM
The crossarms were made in pairs. One setup did double duty.

I thought I was so smart widening the arms together. Then I remembered that the lower arm slots are narrower than the top slots.  I'll either put washers on each side of the lower ones, or make a new one.

Now for some steel spheres...



Title: Ball Jig
Post by: J.L. on September 04, 2018, 09:18:11 PM
I saw this idea a number of years ago on the internet. It works, but a collet the diameter of the balls would probably be the preferred method.  :slap:

I dont have a collet the ball diameter and don't feel like taking the time to make one. So a couple of holes in two steel plates will do the job.

A light skiff with an end mill is taken off the balls clampled in a vice finding the centres and creating a nice flat for the centre drill.

Title: Re: Textile Mill Diorama
Post by: zeeprogrammer on September 04, 2018, 10:40:43 PM
Nice. That one goes in my reference book.  :ThumbsUp:
Title: Re: Textile Mill Diorama
Post by: b.lindsey on September 04, 2018, 11:57:51 PM
More nice progress John. What size are the steel balls?

Bill
Title: Re: Textile Mill Diorama
Post by: J.L. on September 05, 2018, 09:17:50 PM
Hi Bill. Thanks.
A good question. When I bought steel balls for the Benson, four came in the packet, so I had two 9/16 steel ones left. They were smaller than the steel ones I used on the Stuart beam engine, but I thought they would do. But upon assembly, they looked too small, so I scrounged around and found the pair of  5/8" bronze balls the steel ones replaced on the beam engine.

Carl, I modified the design of the jig a bit. I added a centre bolt to stop the bars from arcing downward at each end.

The beauty of this jig is that I could change diameters at will without any modifications to the holding apparatus. If I had made a dedicated jig for the 9/16" balls, I would have to make another one for the 5/8" ones.

Of course, those with a full set of collets for their collet chucks would roll their eyes at this homemade route. I must admit though, having both a 9/16" and a 5/8" collet around would not be a bad thing.


Title: Re: Textile Mill Diorama
Post by: J.L. on September 07, 2018, 01:28:46 AM
A governor without a home... yet.

I was hoping to receive that replacement strap from Australia to complete this engine now. It looks as though I'll be puttering with other diorama features for awhile.

Title: Re: Textile Mill Diorama
Post by: 10KPete on September 07, 2018, 03:28:15 AM
John, that's beautiful unit!!

 :cheers:

Pete
Title: Re: Textile Mill Diorama
Post by: Kim on September 07, 2018, 04:51:26 AM
That looks very nice John!
I assume it will go round and round, up and down, but won't actually control anything?
Very nice!
Kim
Title: Re: Textile Mill Diorama
Post by: J.L. on September 07, 2018, 08:12:45 AM
Thanks Pete.

Hi Kim,
No, actually the governor will be operational. There is a butterfly valve above the steam valve chest that will be linked to the govvernor's spool. I was thinking of something like a Hemmingway style 'U' shaped base that would sit independently in front of the engine. A lot of linkage issues to work out there yet.

But that's a long way down the road. If the eccentric strap casting has been lost in the mail, I will have to source out some brass bar stock to proceed..

Title: Re: Textile Mill Diorama
Post by: J.L. on September 07, 2018, 03:40:58 PM
I'm not historically correct with my fittings (no flanges), but I will make an attempt to simulate the plaster/asbestos wrapped pipes from the boiler room on the long runs.
Title: Re: Textile Mill Diorama
Post by: BAH on September 07, 2018, 08:22:25 PM
An Alum and water mix will eat that tap out of the bronze casting. Took about three or four days to and it was sludge so it saved my piece, and saved me ordering a replacement from Australia . You can get Alum powder from any place that has canning supplies. I think I got my container from the pharmacy in my town (small town).
If you make a saturated mix, place the part in and heat the liquid you will save your part. It just wonít work in ferrous metals, but bronze, brass, aluminum, it works.
Lots of info on google and itís very safe to do. 
Title: Re: Textile Mill Diorama
Post by: J.L. on September 07, 2018, 10:13:26 PM
 Thanks for the info, but we are long past that possibility. Trying to remove the drill damaged the part beyond use.

Today I acquired a 1/4" bar of brass two inches wide. Maybe starting from scratch will be a good thing as I can now control the shape and function of the part.
Title: Re: Textile Mill Diorama
Post by: Kim on September 08, 2018, 01:40:52 AM
...the governor will be operational. There is a butterfly valve above the steam valve chest that will be linked to the govvernor's spool. I was thinking of something like a Hemmingway style 'U' shaped base that would sit independently in front of the engine. A lot of linkage issues to work out there yet.

But that's a long way down the road. If the eccentric strap casting has been lost in the mail, I will have to source out some brass bar stock to proceed..

That's going to be pretty amazing!
Now that you re-show those pictures, I remember when you made that.  I just didn't make the connection.

Very nice John, as always!
Kim
Title: Re: Textile Mill Diorama
Post by: BAH on September 08, 2018, 02:03:25 AM
Thanks for the info, but we are long past that possibility. Trying to remove the drill damaged the part beyond use.

Today I acquired a 1/4" bar of brass two inches wide. Maybe starting from scratch will be a good thing as I can now control the shape and function of the part.

Oh, thatís a bit of a bummer. Oh well, maybe next time (hopefully no next time ).
Your builds are awesome, love the details. Thanks for sharing.
Title: Re: Textile Mill Diorama
Post by: Ian S C on September 08, 2018, 02:02:26 PM
A couple of years ago I needed some Alum to remove a bit of broken tap from some brass, so I went to the Chemist shop, being a modern shop, no chemicals, so they ordered some, and I got about 10 grams. Mean while I was looking through the garden chemical etc., and found 2 500 gm bags that Mum had bought at the garden shop.
Ian S C
Title: Re: Textile Mill Diorama
Post by: J.L. on September 08, 2018, 06:46:07 PM
Thanks guys.

Hi Ian,
My wife, in the recent process of making pickles, just used a lot of alum.  ;)

Here's a tip for anyone who has a 1" sanding belt machine. The 1" metal platen behind the belt makes it impossible to use the machine to sand in tight places. Because I hate filing and am not good at it at all, I'll do almost anything to avoid it.

Tip:

1. Remove the planen.

2. Cut the belt to the required thickness required (Photo 1).

3. To remove metal, you need support behind the belt or it will flex back and be ineffective. Clamp a piece of metal to the table behind the belt the thickness of the belt. This will give you something to push against as you gently profile the part. (photo 2)

4. Remove the metal support and finish the job by letting the belt now flex  and follow the curves.

You end up with curves that are smooth, perpendicular to the faces and finely finished. If I attempted to shape these tight curves with a file, you'd know it!


Title: Eccentric Strap
Post by: J.L. on September 09, 2018, 01:41:33 PM
I mentioned that a replacement cast eccentric strap was kindly sent to me by Ben de Gabriel of E and J Winter Models. It may be still in the delivery system, but I wish to proceed at this time as seen in the recent photos.

Ben suggested that if I could find gunmetal as the material of choice, it would aid lubrication as it contains a certain amount of lead. I did not know this. My friendly machine shop, however, did have a piece of 2" brass bar.

Here we see the first of the original two straps operating the pump's ram. The second photo shows the second fabricated brass strap being cut in half.

Thank you Ben, for your kind customer service. In good faith, you sent me the replacement part as early as possible. That was very much appreciated.

John

Title: Re: Textile Mill Diorama
Post by: J.L. on September 09, 2018, 02:17:45 PM
 :)

Title: Re: Textile Mill Diorama
Post by: b.lindsey on September 09, 2018, 02:42:47 PM
Still following along John. About the time you finish up on the bar stock replacement part the casting will show up....never fails....l

Bill
Title: Re: Textile Mill Diorama
Post by: J.L. on September 09, 2018, 07:04:03 PM
Reassuring Bill to have you keeping me in line.

You may be right about the missing casting. If I see the postman with a brown package, I'll take a picture of it and post it.  ;)

The nice thing about making the part from scratch is that there can be a centre! Working with an open cast hole was more difficult for me.

Speaking of which, cutting this hole on the rotary table is going so well that I may just keep opeining it up until it reaches the correct diameter and forget the 4-jaw!! There has to be a recess at the edge for the rim of the eccentric journal, but that's easy to do on this side because everything is set up. The trick will be to turn the part over to cut the recess on the other side. The centering will have gone.

Maybe a jig of some sort on the lathe?

Thoughts?
Title: Re: Textile Mill Diorama
Post by: b.lindsey on September 09, 2018, 07:10:28 PM
You can still center the part using an indicator on the central bore I would think as long as the rotary table remains centered as well.

Bill
Title: Re: Textile Mill Diorama
Post by: J.L. on September 09, 2018, 08:01:33 PM
I understand Bill. So you would recommend staying with the rotary table?
John
Title: Re: Textile Mill Diorama
Post by: b.lindsey on September 09, 2018, 08:09:25 PM
Sure if you are more comfortable with that. Its probably 6 of one, half dozen of another between that and the 4 jaw. Either way you will have to center on the through bore.

Bill
Title: Re: Textile Mill Diorama
Post by: J.L. on September 09, 2018, 10:16:19 PM
Hi Bill,

Agreed.

The hole is now 1 3/8" in diameter.

To maintain concentricity on the other side, after a 1/16"  recess is cut on this side, I have decided to make a stub mandrel for the strap on the lathe. The thought of trying to use a dial indicator on this small table with four bolts does not thrill me.

Title: Re: Textile Mill Diorama
Post by: pgp001 on September 09, 2018, 11:05:34 PM
I made a simple expanding mandrel to machine the eccentric straps for Agnes.

(http://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10026/normal_Eccentrics_016_01-01-18.jpg)

Phil
Title: Re: Textile Mill Diorama
Post by: J.L. on September 10, 2018, 01:36:05 AM
Hi Phil,
I don't quite understand what operation this photo is showing. Are you expanding against the inner walls of the strap to machine a recess?
John
Title: Re: Textile Mill Diorama
Post by: pgp001 on September 10, 2018, 06:55:46 AM
Yes John

But I also faced the straps to the correct thickness as well which is what you are seeing in the photo, the next operation was to recess the inner corners.

Phil
Title: Re: Textile Mill Diorama
Post by: J.L. on September 10, 2018, 02:04:54 PM
Hi Phil.

 I understand.

I used to make homemade expanding collets with drawbars that went back to a hand wheel when I was woodturning.

They really are time savers.

Thanks for sharing.

John
Title: Package
Post by: J.L. on September 10, 2018, 04:03:30 PM
Bill, you nailed it. Guess what showed up on the doorstep this morning?  :)

Thanks Ben.  :ThumbsUp:

John

Title: Re: Textile Mill Diorama
Post by: J.L. on September 11, 2018, 08:36:32 PM
Here we go again - in gunmetal.
Title: Re: Textile Mill Diorama
Post by: J.L. on September 12, 2018, 03:34:23 PM
And here we are at the point where I got into trouble in the first place trying to drill an oil hole at a severe angle directly down from the face of the strap's projecting lug as suggested in the plans.

This time, a threaded #5-40 hole was drilled straight down for an oil cup to meet this perpendicular hole you see drilled into the back of the lug in the first photo. That little tiny little piece of brass sitting out of focus to the left of the strap is the tapered plug used to plug the hole (photo 2).

Thanks again Ben for the replacement gunmetal strap.

John
Title: Re: Textile Mill Diorama
Post by: Admiral_dk on September 12, 2018, 09:37:49 PM
At least you ended up with a very nice part that is up to the standard of the rest of the build John  :praise2:
Title: Re: Textile Mill Diorama
Post by: J.L. on September 13, 2018, 10:20:45 PM
Thank you.

This time I made the sheave in a 3-jaw chuck. No physical offset was required with the chuck to drill the hole.

My 3-jaw is not that true, but that didn't matter here, because I began with a larger round of cast iron. The piece was faced and rimmed on the metal lathe. Then the chuck was removed from the lathe and taken to the table of the mill/drill where the hole was drilled. Then the chuck was brought back to the metal lathe for parting off.

Title: Re: Textile Mill Diorama
Post by: b.lindsey on September 14, 2018, 02:02:11 AM
Glad the replacement showed up John. Now it will match the rest of the parts.

Bill
Title: Re: Textile Mill Diorama
Post by: crueby on September 14, 2018, 02:08:01 AM
coming along great!
 :popcorn:
Title: Re: Textile Mill Diorama
Post by: J.L. on September 15, 2018, 10:14:24 AM
Thanks Chris.

One thing I'm noticing about parting off large diameters is that as the as you lengthen the cut-off bar to reach the centre of the piece, the thin blade tends to flex to the left enlarging the part with a bulge. This is evident in the first photo. You can see that the burge is being removed as the sander flattens the work progressively. This part coud have been chucked or pushed onto an offset mandrel I guess and faced, but I took the esay route.

The second photo shows the competed eccentric with a steel mounting plate. The square section will be milled to accomodate the connecting rod.
Title: Re: Textile Mill Diorama
Post by: b.lindsey on September 15, 2018, 04:11:28 PM
That can sure happen John. Just make sure the parting blade is perpendicular to the work and that the cutting edge is not skewed one way or the other. Other than that I have no suggestions.

Bill
Title: Re: Textile Mill Diorama
Post by: Kim on September 15, 2018, 05:39:06 PM
can see that the burge is being removed as the sander flattens the work progressively. This part coud have been chucked or pushed onto an offset mandrel I guess and faced, but I took the esay route.

You actually wouldn't have to use an offset - you could just chuck it up any old way - a collet or even a 3-jaw if you can get a hold of it.  All your doing is facing it off, so it doesn't matter if its turning concentric or not for facing off.  But sanding it worked too.

Your build is looking great, as always, John!
Kim
Title: Re: Textile Mill Diorama
Post by: J.L. on September 15, 2018, 06:36:14 PM
Good thoughts fellows and thank you for the kind words.

Kim, I know what you are saying, but I didn't want to chuck the piece at all. I know I could have used soft shims to protect the delicate rim of the eccentric, but I just didn't want to mess about with it. As you can see from the sanding, I knew exactly when a flat surface was being achieved as I neared the rim.

Forgive the dust and fluff on the engine in these photos. I've been sanding the plaster around the pipes. Now if that was asbestos as it would have been back in the day, the lads working in this shop would be at risk for future lung problems. However, I don't think they would have sanded that material anyway. The mixture would have been applied and left to harden without any furthur cosmetic fussing. I was just trying to make the covering to look smooth and pretty!  ::)

These photos show a wooden stick being used as a test pattern for the final part that will operate the engine - the connecting rod for the slide valve.

Notice that there are no threads on the slide valve rod. I'm looking forward to fussing with that later. Also, I can set the valve eccentric externally without taking anything apart.
Title: Re: Textile Mill Diorama
Post by: Tin Falcon on September 15, 2018, 06:40:49 PM
Quote
One thing I'm noticing about parting off large diameters is that as the as you lengthen the cut-off bar to reach the center of the piece, the thin blade tends to flex to the left enlarging the part with a bulge

.What angle is the tip ground to. I tend to leave the right side long that way any extra material  left on the  parent stock. and IIRC parting is a roughing operation depending on the part.
And you are correct an extra setup take time and work.

Anyway looks like you sorted it out. am i am sitting in my chair commenting.
Title: Re: Textile Mill Diorama
Post by: J.L. on September 15, 2018, 06:48:20 PM
Hi Tim,

Good point about leaving the right edge of the parting tool long. With woodturning parting, cutting a secondary groove to the left of the main one gives clearance to dissipate heat. I did that with the metal as well, but  your idea makes sense with that leading edge making initial contact.

Thanks for the tip.  :ThumbsUp:

John
Title: Timing
Post by: J.L. on September 15, 2018, 10:10:33 PM
I read the instructions of how to time a slide valve engine and they crossed my eyes. I understood one word in ten. Something about dead centre, callipers, marking the flywheel, establishing dead centre and whatnot.

For me, the only thing I think is important in setting up is the throw of the cylinder at 9 o'clock and 3 o'clock. At 9 o'clock, the cyliner is at it end of travel to the left.  At 3 o'clock, it is at the end of its travel to the right. In both cases, the cyliner does not strike the cyliner lids and leaves a little bit of clearance for the steam to enter the cylinder.

Same for the valve connecting rod. It throws 3/16" forward at 3 o'clock and 3/16" back at 9 o'clock. That's how I determine the length of the connecting rod. Right? I make sure that the tail of the slide valve rod does not hit or leave the supporting casting at the back of the valve chest.

Then it's a matter of setting equal amounts of movement of the slide valve and the location of the eccentric in relation to the crankshaft.

Am I on the right track here?

I've done this before, but it usually is repeated trial and error before the engine runs sweetly.

Tomorrow we try to get this puppy running...


Title: To Date
Post by: J.L. on September 16, 2018, 06:27:45 PM
The engine is virtually finished. The governor gear will have to be designed and added, but with some tweaking here and there, the engine should run.

A couple of shots before the timing begins...

Title: Re: Textile Mill Diorama
Post by: crueby on September 16, 2018, 06:28:29 PM
Wow - what a beauty!
Title: Re: Textile Mill Diorama
Post by: Jasonb on September 16, 2018, 06:54:39 PM
Looking good John and I would say you also look about right with the timing, assuming anticlockwise rotation as viewed in your last photo then crank at 12 0'clock and max throw of the eccentric at about 8 o'clock. Or the eccentric grubscrew at 11 o'clock.
Title: Re: Textile Mill Diorama
Post by: zeeprogrammer on September 16, 2018, 06:57:16 PM
 :ThumbsUp: Beautiful. I'm looking forward to the run.
Title: Re: Textile Mill Diorama
Post by: b.lindsey on September 16, 2018, 07:05:36 PM
Just beautiful John.  :ThumbsUp:

Bill
Title: Re: Textile Mill Diorama
Post by: Ye-Ole Steam Dude on September 16, 2018, 07:44:24 PM
Hi John,

That is an awesome photo with the door and window in the background, so real looking.

Have a great day,
Thomas
Title: Re: Textile Mill Diorama
Post by: 10KPete on September 16, 2018, 09:20:27 PM
Wow, I do like that engine! Beautiful work..... :praise2:

Pete
Title: Re: Textile Mill Diorama
Post by: J.L. on September 18, 2018, 08:43:35 PM
Thank you gentlemen for the kind comments. I agree. This is a very nice mill engine. Quite powerful as well.

Thanks Jason for the reassurance on the settings. I found this diagram quite helpful as a starting point. It's amazing how just a little adjustment of the valve eccentric makes all the difference in the world. Try one setting, the machine locks up and won't move. Move the eccentric a tiny little bit and you are off and running.

Also. having the eccentric adjustment boss on the outside of the part saves a lot of time and frustration. You have complete and infinite control of the eccentric.

Bill, that set screw in the floating valve nut was a gift. Again, infinite and instant sliding movement back and forth possible. No threads.

 
Title: Re: Textile Mill Diorama
Post by: b.lindsey on September 18, 2018, 09:55:30 PM
I may have to give that sliding nut a try John. I understand the benefits now. Glad it worked out well.

Bill
Title: Re: Textile Mill Diorama
Post by: J.L. on September 20, 2018, 07:56:29 PM
Yes Bill, worked like a charm.

Here's a quick look at the completed engine without its governor. It will have to be removed from the engine room to complete the workbench and other items at the back of the room.

QOKjpgiyM34
Title: Re: Textile Mill Diorama
Post by: Adam G on September 20, 2018, 08:51:53 PM
  :whoohoo: :whoohoo: :whoohoo:
Title: Re: Textile Mill Diorama
Post by: Admiral_dk on September 20, 2018, 09:40:20 PM
It runs like a dream John - congratulations  :cheers:
Title: Re: Textile Mill Diorama
Post by: wagnmkr on September 20, 2018, 10:48:25 PM
Lovely "chuff-chuff" sounds.

Tom
Title: Re: Textile Mill Diorama
Post by: gbritnell on September 21, 2018, 03:11:36 AM
Outstanding as ever John! Your dioramas add so much to the presentation.
gbritnell
Title: Re: Textile Mill Diorama
Post by: Larry on September 21, 2018, 03:47:38 AM
Another great project - have enjoyed following along.
Title: Re: Textile Mill Diorama
Post by: Kim on September 21, 2018, 05:27:27 AM
It runs!  Not that there was ever any doubt! :)
Very nice, John!
Kim
Title: Re: Textile Mill Diorama
Post by: J.L. on September 21, 2018, 02:44:28 PM
Thank you all.  :D

Hi Tin,
Your idea of leaving the right side of the parting tool a bit long (grinding the tool on an angle) is working well here. This is a deep part as the governor drive pulley is being cut from a round of mild steel.
Title: Re: Textile Mill Diorama
Post by: Ye-Ole Steam Dude on September 21, 2018, 02:50:34 PM
Hello John,

Just beautiful and even better in that setting.

Have a great day,
Thomas
Title: Re: Textile Mill Diorama
Post by: J.L. on September 22, 2018, 06:31:41 PM
Thank you Thomas.

You are right about the setting. I removed the engine and set it on a table so that I could work on governor parts on its back side. The minute I stepped back and looked at it, I realized it had lost much of its presence. It was just a model sitting on a table.

Now to drive the governor. Two friction pulleys have been made out of mild steel. I think a large 0-ring will be the belt material.
Title: Re: Textile Mill Diorama
Post by: b.lindsey on September 22, 2018, 06:51:12 PM
Nice smooth running John. I had missed the video till now. The governor will add even more to it !!

Bill
Title: Re: Textile Mill Diorama
Post by: J.L. on September 25, 2018, 07:58:03 AM
Thanks Bill.

Yes, the governor will add much to the presentation of the engine.

The first step was to find a way to transmit power from the back of the engine to the front. Bearings were fastened to the sides of the cast iron base. This was no small feat. The walls of the cast iron base are angled and the mounting holes had to be drilled with an electric hand drill. Shims may still be neaded to keep the mountings perfectly vertical. Tightening up the bolts has a tendency to cant the mountings inward. It was difficult to get the perfect angle for them during fabrication.

 
Title: Re: Textile Mill Diorama
Post by: J.L. on September 26, 2018, 02:03:33 PM
I tried Adam's idea of experimenting with B&W the odd time for effect. Here is the goveror drive shaft bringing power to the front of the engine.

Title: Thin Steel Strips
Post by: J.L. on September 26, 2018, 02:07:52 PM
A friend visiting the workshop who has had a lot of experience with steam engines, suggested a shelf be placed above the future workbench at the back of the engine room and that an indicator box be placed on that shelf.

More about the box later, but here are the metal shelf brackets made from the steel strips found in hanging folders.

If you like the idea of using such thin strips of steel be careful which hanging folder brand you use. Some are flat strips and some have a raised reinforcing rib running down their length. Fortunately I was able to find two last folders that had flat strips.
Title: Re: Textile Mill Diorama
Post by: J.L. on September 26, 2018, 04:10:12 PM
From shelves I see mounted around the house, it looks as though most are mounted six feet above the floor. So that's 6 in.

With the engine out of the room, holes can be drilled into the back wall with a hand drill for what will simulate lag screws screwed into lead anchors in the concrete wall.

Looking forward to getting that engine back into the room. The long workbench can be made separately and just placed behind the engine under the window later. I couldn't have  mounted the governor bearings without removing it though.

I found my coal shovel! Also looking forward to seeing it up against the firewall in front of the boiler.  :)


Title: Re: Textile Mill Diorama
Post by: Larry Sw on September 26, 2018, 05:06:12 PM
What ?????  No to-scale wood screws holding the shelf to the brackets ????   :Lol:

Larry S
Fort Wayne, IN
Title: Re: Textile Mill Diorama
Post by: J.L. on September 26, 2018, 08:39:01 PM
Hi Larry,
Actually there are lag screw holes for holding the shelf to the brackets. Some of the lag bolts are just fake ones glued in and sanded flush to the backside of the metal.

That box I mentioned contained a steam engine indicator used on the Toronto ferry "Trillium" and was given to my friend by her restoration engineer (photo 1).

At the time valuable measuring instruments and delicate devices were often placed safely in finger jointed wooden cases of oak or walnut. Think of a sextant on a ship. I have one that held a battery and electrical probes (photo 2)

So on the shelf we have a steam engine indicator with the key in the lock.

When all is done, there will be log books and manuals also sitting on the shelf.
Title: Re: Textile Mill Diorama
Post by: J.L. on September 26, 2018, 09:21:49 PM
Enough of the minutiae with this novelty shot. Tomorrow we get down to some serious work mounting the engine and starting the goveernor stand.

It's of an oiler cast in gunmetal sitting on the shelf in the boiler room. The shot is taken through the window from the workshop side of the diorama.

Title: Re: Textile Mill Diorama
Post by: Kim on September 28, 2018, 05:38:09 AM
I just love your detail work, John.  It adds so much to your dioramas!
Kim
Title: Re: Textile Mill Diorama
Post by: J.L. on September 28, 2018, 12:56:17 PM
Thank you for the nice comment Kim. Looking forward to putting lots of detail on the metal table that will sit under the window behind the engine. I bought a gunmetal 1/12 scale bench vice for it.

I noticed oil leaking through the plaster cast wrap around the elbow joint in the boiler room yesterday. Unusual as MTP threads draw in tightly  to their fittings. I must have inadvertantly unscrewed a pipe a little bit in adjusting the length of a fitting somewhere else.

So all the pipes above the boiler had to come out, be stripped of their coverings and reassembled. To be honest, I like the look of the brass piping as seen in this photo. The cast wrap looked a bit clumpy and rough.

I understand there are rubber covering paints and coatings that woud perhaps look better anyway. We are talking air lines here only - no steam. I've seen a pair of pliers dipped into the can and lifted out creating rubber handle coatings. The product is available in spray and liquid.

Perhaps another time.
Title: Re: Textile Mill Diorama
Post by: J.L. on September 29, 2018, 02:16:07 PM
This is not exactly laser cutting!

I have great appreciation for the slots Chris is cutting to join all those holes in his brass gears!  :o
Title: Re: Textile Mill Diorama
Post by: crueby on September 29, 2018, 02:49:20 PM
This is not exactly laser cutting!

I have great appreciation for the slots Chris is cutting to join all those holes in his brass gears!  :o
A little file work will clean off the burs real quick.


 :popcorn:
Title: Re: Textile Mill Diorama
Post by: b.lindsey on September 29, 2018, 03:32:32 PM
The shelf and its contents add a very nice touch John!

Bill
Title: Re: Textile Mill Diorama
Post by: zeeprogrammer on September 29, 2018, 04:24:13 PM
Catching up. The detail and quality is phenomenal.
I always have to be ready to catch my jaw when I look in.  :ThumbsUp:
Title: Re: Textile Mill Diorama
Post by: J.L. on September 30, 2018, 02:04:23 AM
Fellows, your positive comments are motivating, but I see work on this site that drops my jaw!  :NotWorthy:

Today I took an overall shot that shows both the boiler room and the engine together. Soon it will be possible to start some beamwork in the engine room.
Title: Re: Textile Mill Diorama
Post by: 10KPete on September 30, 2018, 05:02:21 AM
John, you are constantly taking us to a higher level! :o
And the details..... wow. :praise2:
As to the last, we may have a problem with the stoker on that boiler. Ya see, he tries to keep his hands out of trouble so he makes sure to put it against the wall with the handle up. Bad news to grab the dirty, hot, end. :ShakeHead:

 :ThumbsUp: :popcorn: :DrinkPint:

Pete
Title: Re: Textile Mill Diorama
Post by: J.L. on September 30, 2018, 02:32:39 PM
Sharp eyes Pete. You don't miss a thing.

You are the second person to put me to rights with little details I have missed with this diorama. Adam's sharp eyes picked up on a missing rivet around the fire tube (Photo 1). That rivet was put in place and christened "Adam's Rivet".

Now the stoker's tool resting against the firewall arch will be known as " Pete's Poker".  :Lol:

Thanks Pete.

John
Title: Re: Textile Mill Diorama
Post by: zeeprogrammer on September 30, 2018, 03:57:48 PM
Adam's sharp eyes picked up on a missing rivet around the fire tube. That rivet was put in place and christened "Adam's Rivet".
Now the stoker's tool resting against the firewall arch will be known as " Pete's Poker".

Uh oh. Careful there John.
You now have a forum full of members who are going to be more meticulous in their inspection of your work.
Who wouldn't want to be enshrined as "so-and-so's thingie" in one of your dioramas?  ;D
Title: The Governor
Post by: J.L. on October 03, 2018, 10:14:45 PM
Carl, close inspection of my dioramas would mean that almost every member of this  forum would have found something amiss.  ;)

The mounting of the governor proved interesting.  The design of the supporting shape came from drawings loaned to me by Tom. I will have to design the linkage to work the butterfly valve as I go along.

Title: Re: Textile Mill Diorama
Post by: b.lindsey on October 04, 2018, 12:39:51 AM
I haven't checked in in a few days John as other things have been keeping me busy, but the photos and detail are phenominal as always!!

Bill
Title: Re: Textile Mill Diorama
Post by: steamer on October 04, 2018, 11:11:17 AM
That's looking great John!

Dave

Title: Governor Action
Post by: J.L. on October 04, 2018, 08:19:11 PM
Thanks Bill and Dave.

Here are some observations about the butterfly valve in the steam tube of the governor body and its function. Jump in and correct me if I am wrong anywhere.

The valve that sits in the tube is set at an angle, so it is not round, but more elliptical in shape. An early Stuart Turner Ltd. Henley-On-Thames drawing indicates that the open position of the valve when installed is at 30 degrees from vertical. Steam shut-off position is at 15 degrees from vertical.

I donít think this is what I have in these photos. The positions are from horizontal, not vertical. Nevertheless, linkage should make things right.

The first two photos show my positions without the boss. It is effortless to move the shaft. But when an 0-ring is installed and a boss screwed in (photos  3 &4) there is resistance. Iím not sure the weight of the balls will overcome this resistance. The shaft may hang up.  So I am considering wrapping teflon tape in the stuffing box instead. Itís all a matter of preventing air from escaping the valve chest.

If the balls are down and the valve is closed, the engine wonít run. So adjustment of the butterfly valve is critical. I noticed in the notes for a Ransome and May horizontal engine, if really slow running is desired, the governor lever should be weighted to nearly balance the weight of the balls.

You can see this counterweight in photo 5 of a French governor.

Of course all this discussion could be considered academic with a small engine running under virtually no load. Itís just as easy to control speed with a manual adjustment of the steam valve.

If the linkage lets me down, it will be allowed to move freely without operation. After all, the governor is the eye candy of the model.
 
Title: Re: Textile Mill Diorama
Post by: Admiral_dk on October 04, 2018, 10:03:01 PM
Wonderful work as usual from you John  :praise2:

I can't remember steam valves - but I have seen a good number of full size gasoline engine throttles and they do not close at 90 degree to the flow, but in the 80-85 degree region (says he without measuring - it might be less).
Title: Re: Textile Mill Diorama
Post by: Steamer5 on October 04, 2018, 10:41:03 PM
Hi John,
 Stunning!
Doing a bit of a catchup, & the additions are just wonderful!

On the governor front, in my view the governor shouldnít shut off, thatís the job of the steam stop valve. As you rightly point out, if the governor is closed the engine wonít run! My thought is the governor should be a itís minium stop position (which isnít closed ) so that itís throttling the steam flow as the steam is admitted using the stop valve. Once the stop valve is open the governor has control of the machine at min revs, as the load goes on the governor opens allowing more steam in.......just my 2 cents worth.

Cheers Kerrin
Title: AHA!
Post by: J.L. on October 05, 2018, 02:42:54 AM
Thanks fellows.

Well, tonight the penny finally dropped. I could not get my head around how to get the linkage to operate properly.  As you say Kerrin, as the load comes on, the governor opens allowing more steam in.

Then I descovered my error. I had the throttle valve closing as its shaft was being turned countercloskwise. Turning the shaft clockwise opened it. That's how all the Stuart governors operate. They have levers that push and pull.

I had the throttle valve disk in the wrong way.  :hammerbash: My levers have to rise and fall. Push down and the throttle opens; ease off and the throttle returns to its original position. I simply took the throttle valve out and put it back in the other way.

Good point  Kerrin in stating the job of the steam stop valve as a separate issue. 




Title: Re: Textile Mill Diorama
Post by: J.L. on October 05, 2018, 12:41:59 PM
A copule of pictures should simplify what I have said above. In the first photo, the valve has nowhere to go if the shaft is turned counterclockwise. It's locked in the tube at its preset angle. So the balls can't open it when they lose their centrifugal force with a load.

But in photo two, I put the disk in the other way. Now the balls can open the disk as centrifual force is lost with an increased load. In other words, it can open.

I replaced the rather clunky setscrew with a little # 0-80  hex head grub screw. It goes in far enough to lock the disk and be flush with the surface of the shaft.
Title: A Shortcut
Post by: J.L. on October 05, 2018, 04:19:21 PM
Now for the linkage.

I've had success where shear strength is not an issue, to simply glue a boss to a lever rather than try to fabriate the  piece all at once. I could just drill a grub screw hole into the lever, but a boss makes the part look more natural.

The trick is to get the scrap piece of shaft out of the parts before the Loctite sets up!

A bit of hand drawing of the dried part across a piece of emery paper will blend the parts together.

Edit:
I was wrong about the shear strength of Loctite 680. After 24 hours, it is 4000 psi.
Title: Re: Textile Mill Diorama
Post by: Roger B on October 05, 2018, 07:23:58 PM
Splendid attention to detail as ever :praise2: The engine looks a smooth runner and I'm glad you sorted the governor linkage  :ThumbsUp:  :ThumbsUp:
Title: Re: Textile Mill Diorama
Post by: J.L. on October 07, 2018, 02:33:46 PM
Thank you Roger.
Yes, I found the governor settings confusing. I think the only way to set the throttle will be to watch the running of the machine, put a finger on the flywheel to represent a load and observe whether the engine is compensating.

As I said earlier, much of this is academic. The model will not be under load much at all. Just the line shafts and the saw and lathe being brought online occasionally for display.

At this point, the engine can be considered finished.


Title: Re: Textile Mill Diorama
Post by: Kim on October 07, 2018, 03:10:25 PM
You're governor is mighty nice looking John!
Kim
Title: Re: Textile Mill Diorama
Post by: Brian Rupnow on October 07, 2018, 04:54:04 PM
Lovely engine John. A real masterpiece!!--Brian
Title: Re: Textile Mill Diorama
Post by: J.L. on October 07, 2018, 06:40:17 PM
Thanks Kim.

Hello Brian. Happy Thanksgiving weekend from Peterborough to Barrie.

This powerful little engine is shaking the table. That's beause there are 5" wheels mounted on the legs so that the model can be viewed from both sides as it is turned around.

To stabilize the table, there will have to be extenders added to the legs to take the weight off of the wheels. I did this also for the 19th century steam driven machine shop diorama. It didn't shake as much though. Victoria has only a 1" bore.

Cheers...John
Title: Re: Textile Mill Diorama
Post by: wagnmkr on October 07, 2018, 07:33:59 PM
What a Gorgeous engine John. Well Done That Lad!!

Happy Thanksgiving to Peterborough and Barrie from Lindsay.

Cheers
Title: Re: Textile Mill Diorama
Post by: b.lindsey on October 07, 2018, 11:03:42 PM
Stunning John, as always!!

Bill
Title: Re: Textile Mill Diorama
Post by: J.L. on October 08, 2018, 03:23:24 PM
Thanks Bill.

Here are two shots of the finished engine; two shots of the first finished detail area - the shelf; and the beginnings of a metal work table to be placed under the window behind the engine.
Title: Re: Textile Mill Diorama
Post by: Kim on October 08, 2018, 05:28:55 PM
I just love the C clamp on the shelf!  And the nut as a paperweight :)
Kim
Title: Re: Textile Mill Diorama
Post by: JC54 on October 08, 2018, 07:11:45 PM
You beat me to it Kim. That "C" clamp is just tremendous. This is one of those creations? that every time you look at it you spot something new. A true masterpiece.. :old: :DrinkPint: JC
Title: Re: Textile Mill Diorama
Post by: J.L. on October 08, 2018, 09:13:57 PM
Thank you lads.

JC, I think you are right. I've had people look at the original diorama for quite a while and then exclaim, "OH, I see the foreman's apron hanging on the hook... and his spitoon beside his desk!"

I wanted the metal table behind the engine to look as though it were actually angle irons bolted together. #0-80 bolt heads did the trick.

The bench frame really looks like metal doesn't it? It's plastic.
Title: Re: Textile Mill Diorama
Post by: wagnmkr on October 09, 2018, 10:35:04 AM
John, I'm afraid there are just no words left to describe this level of workmanship ... and attention to detail.

Cheers
Title: Re: Textile Mill Diorama
Post by: J.L. on October 09, 2018, 03:04:03 PM
Thanks Tom.  You are too kind.

The machine table is ready to dress. I see a ball peen hammer, a machinist's vice, screwdrivers and files and of course the preverbial tool chest with drawers under the table.

Fun stuff.

Cheers...John
Title: The Coal Shovel
Post by: J.L. on October 10, 2018, 04:10:09 PM
Got sidetracked with the pictures to show the modification of the coal shovel. It is a beautiful little casting from Mountain Miniatures in Lula, Georgia. It is not just stampted tin. It may have been cast in pewter.

But when I received it in the mail, the handle was broken off. As it turned out, this was a good thing. It was a bit too long in the handle.

The repair was easy and the handle has been shortened. I know stokers were of a smaller stature back in the day, but manipuating this shovel would be in close quarters. I should havve had the shovel in hand before I located the coal crib. It should be furthur away from the boiler's face.

That can be one of our little secrets.
Title: Re: Textile Mill Diorama
Post by: Admiral_dk on October 10, 2018, 09:44:48 PM
Beautiful shovel - but it looks too shiny considering what it is used for  ;)
Title: Re: Textile Mill Diorama
Post by: J.L. on October 10, 2018, 10:25:19 PM
I agree. I gave the little bag of coal to a train enthusiast but kept a little back. If I put some glue on the shovel and sprinkle the coal on the blade, it might do the trick.  ;)
Title: Re: Textile Mill Diorama
Post by: Brian Rupnow on October 10, 2018, 10:39:10 PM
The handle might get black, but the shovel part will stay shiny from the abrasion of the coal it is shoveling.
Title: Re: Textile Mill Diorama
Post by: derekwarner on October 11, 2018, 12:46:07 AM
JL.....I believe the 'Tool Chests' you mention were totally wooden construction with small metal rectangular name paper holders on the front of each drawer 

I have seen a number & each was really a piece of timber furniture, and not just a tool box with drawers ...they also sit on top of a bench rather underneath the bench

In many ways, very similar to wooden drawer box's of yesteryear as used by Pharmacists for storing tablets .....

With height if each set of drawers being approximately 1 1/2" high only by say 8" wide....and two drawers side per side on each level.....

Derek
Title: Re: Textile Mill Diorama
Post by: Dave Otto on October 11, 2018, 01:12:01 AM
JL.....I believe the 'Tool Chests' you mention were totally wooden construction with small metal rectangular name paper holders on the front of each drawer 

I have seen a number & each was really a piece of timber furniture, and not just a tool box with drawers ...they also sit on top of a bench rather underneath the bench

In many ways, very similar to wooden drawer box's of yesteryear as used by Pharmacists for storing tablets with height if each set of drawers being approximately 1 1/2" high only by say 8" wide....and two drawers side per side on each level.....

Derek

Also used by the Post Office to hold stamps, that is where this one came from. It was painted gray and after re-finishing it holds shop tooling. Dad purchased it many years ago at a government surplus auction.

All the little details are looking great John.

Dave
Title: Re: Textile Mill Diorama
Post by: derekwarner on October 11, 2018, 01:20:41 AM
Yes Dave...this is exactly the type & style of ' :old: furniture style tool box' I was referring to.....each drawer has those small metal rectangular name paper holders on the front of each drawer

Imagine paying retail for one these days   :facepalm:

Derek
Title: Re: Textile Mill Diorama
Post by: J.L. on October 11, 2018, 09:12:48 AM
Good point Brian.

Hi Derek and Dave. You both are describing tool chests that were created in wood at a time when they were works of art. Polished oak, brass nameplate pulls and compartments for almost every tool. Many found their way to museums. They are priceless. They were created to emphasize the skills of the woodworker.

Dave, that is one beautiful cabinet!

Derek, they were seldom placed on the top of a woodworking bench. That was the working surface. If a board had to be hand planed for example, the wood vice and the dogs were used to hold it in place. The work surface was usually kept clear for such activities. The tool cabinet would be given a very special  place, but probably not on the top of the woodworking bench.

Fellows, we are on the machine shop side of the diorama now. When we get to the wood shop side of the diorama we will talk about woodwowrking benchs and cabinetry.

Metal tool cabinets began to evolve into metal cases with thin drawers like their woodworking cousins. Today we see steel rolling carts with ball bearing drawers used by both machinists and mechanics.

They were far more utilitarian. Here is one I made years ago to fit under my lathe. Measusring tools are in the first drawer, taps and dies in the second and so on.

The other two photos show drawered machinests tool cabinets sitting on lower shelves.

As an aside, if I am right, there were two types of compartmentalizing tools in the woodworker's cabinet; the American and the French style. In the American style little dividers were placed around the perimeter of each tool. In the French style, the inside of the drawer was actually moulded to the shape of the tool.

I learned that one when making walnut cases for Colt replica revolvers. I have pictures of those two differenct styles of cases, but am hesitant to post them here.

Title: Watch Your Back
Post by: J.L. on October 12, 2018, 01:44:45 PM
After installing the desk, I saw how close it was to the flywheel. I wouldn't want to be standing at that desk, forget myself and step back!  :-[

A railing is necessary around that flywheel. Unplanned, but a lot of fun to make.

There is on the market brass tubing 3/32" i.d. and solid rod  1/8" o.d. They telescope.

The project starts with making the many fittings for the lengthes of pipe runs. Fortunately I have a little cut-off saw that I can fit with a fibre wheel to cut metal. You can set the vice to 45 degrees and back to 90 degrees.

Making the elbows is shown here:

Title: Re: Textile Mill Diorama
Post by: J.L. on October 12, 2018, 04:19:10 PM
The tee's are made a little differently. One end of the 1/8" pipe is milled with a 1/8" end mill to fit at 90 degrees to the longer piece of pipe.
Title: Re: Textile Mill Diorama
Post by: Kim on October 12, 2018, 04:27:04 PM
Nice work on the railing joint, John.  So it looks like your soft soldering these?  And is that a solder paste?  Have you had good luck with the paste?

Kim
Title: Re: Textile Mill Diorama
Post by: J.L. on October 12, 2018, 06:09:39 PM
Hi Kim,

Thanks. Yes, I only use soft solder. I have never learned how to silver solder.

Yes, I use a flux regardless of whether the solder is acid or rosin core. I find solder flows nicely with a clean joint. The solder is very fine and sold in the hobby stores for electronics hobbiest use.

I have taken lately to giving the finished parts a bath in a bit of Acetone. I think that gets rid of the flux residue and lets a primer do it job better.
Title: Re: Textile Mill Diorama
Post by: Ye-Ole Steam Dude on October 12, 2018, 08:43:31 PM
Hi JL,

Love the desk detail.

Have a great day,
Thomas
Title: Re: Textile Mill Diorama
Post by: J.L. on October 13, 2018, 08:08:55 PM
Thanks Thomas.

Appreciated.

The floor flanges were made from round bar stock. To avoid having to drill all the mounting holes individaully, two holes were drilled down deep into the stock. The flanges were then sliced off with a shoulder in the lathe.

They were shaped on the 1" belt sander.

You can see from the last photo, that the railing lengths have to be individually sized when the rail assemblies are put together. You can see the amount of steel rod that will have to be ground off the make the height of the rails equal.


Title: The Railings
Post by: J.L. on October 14, 2018, 04:02:54 PM
The left and the right side of the flywheel railing...

Some of bolt heads are dummies and the others will anchor the flanges to the concrete floor.
Title: Re: Textile Mill Diorama
Post by: J.L. on October 14, 2018, 07:53:15 PM
On the home stretch with the flywheel railing.

A nice thing about the way I've designed the railings is that they slide up and down and along the rails. All the vertical rails did not have to be cut at the fittings.

Only this one section at the 'cross' will require two pieces of vertial railing.

I think there is enough internal tension in the finished railing that when the bolts are pressed down into the floor, no glue will be required to keep the unit in place.


Title: Re: Textile Mill Diorama
Post by: J.L. on October 14, 2018, 08:37:54 PM
A very long drill was required to reach deep down behind the engine to drill the holes for the flange mounting bolts. Aircraft drills are 8 in. long, but I did not have one 1/16" dia.

I made a drill holder out of soft 1/4" steel rod and bored a 1/16" hole in its end. The drill bit was then CA glued in place.

Worked like a charm and I now have a dedicated long 1/16" drill.

I mentioned my dad's egg beater drill earlier in another thread. It always sitirs fond memories of being with him as a child in the shop.
Title: Re: Textile Mill Diorama
Post by: J.L. on October 15, 2018, 01:02:31 AM
The railing...
Title: Re: Textile Mill Diorama
Post by: Dave Otto on October 15, 2018, 01:39:57 AM
Very nice John!

Dave
Title: The Ladder
Post by: J.L. on October 16, 2018, 03:42:41 PM
Thanks Dave.

A 12 ft. ladder has been made for the diorama. This will allow the oiling of line shaft bearings and the changeing light bulbs. We will assume this is past the first of the century and gas has been replaced with electricity.

I mentioned earlier that brick and wooden beams gave way to concrete and steel as new textile mills were being built. Our mill has been electrified!
Title: Re: Textile Mill Diorama
Post by: J.L. on October 17, 2018, 02:51:38 PM
Beamwork is beginning for the line shafts and lighting...
Title: Re: Textile Mill Diorama
Post by: crueby on October 17, 2018, 03:15:33 PM
Wow - more terrific work!
Have you ever considered doing a diorama of your shop, with you building a diorama in it?   :thinking:
Title: Re: Textile Mill Diorama
Post by: Admiral_dk on October 17, 2018, 08:03:16 PM
Fantastic view John  :praise2:

But please tell me - is it supposed to look like a builder is working on the next floor or are you assembling the beams from pieces ?
Title: Re: Textile Mill Diorama
Post by: J.L. on October 17, 2018, 09:15:07 PM
Thank you!

The picture above shows piles of cross ties ready to be placed between the beams. The beamwork will be left open to reveal engine details, but it will look as though the beams have been cut off to gain this view.

After the line shafts and the lights are in place, the floor will be sub floored and planked with yellow pine boards.

I intend to bring power up to this second floor. I haven't fignured it out yet, but a line shaft belt will come up to  floor flanged line shaft bearings. Such bearings do not exist, so I will have to design them to operate 6in. - 10 in. pulleys above the floor.
Title: Re: Textile Mill Diorama
Post by: 10KPete on October 17, 2018, 09:33:41 PM
John, I think you can use the ceiling mounted line bearings just turn 'em over!

I'm really enjoying this build!

Pete
Title: Re: Textile Mill Diorama
Post by: J.L. on October 18, 2018, 05:02:55 PM
Pleased to hear that Pete. I appreciate your interest.

You are right. I could just turn the line shaft hangers over and screw them to the floor. However, there were proper floor mounted pillow blocks for this purpose. They could also be raised on cast base plates. You can see both on page 355 of Chas A Strelinger & Co. 1895 catalog.

Pete, in the machine shop diorama, I designed wall mounted hangers similar to Fig 1263 on that same page. Line shaft hangers that are just mounted on their sides or right side up just don't look very nice and are not historically correct at all. I wrote PM Research and suggested casting wall mounted hangers similar to the ones I made in the photo below.

I understand why they did not jump at the idea. Just rotating the hangers they sell to suit the job is good enough. There probably wouldn't be enough sales to warrent casting them.


 
Title: Re: Textile Mill Diorama
Post by: ddmckee54 on October 18, 2018, 05:13:39 PM
Why would they have put the 2nd floor line-shaft on the floor?  That would just use up their valuable floor space.  What about a belt drive from the 1st floor line-shaft - on the 1st floor ceiling, through a slot in the ceiling/floor to a 2nd floor line-shaft - on the 2nd floor ceiling?

Don
Title: Re: Textile Mill Diorama
Post by: J.L. on October 18, 2018, 05:50:22 PM
Hi Don.

Good question. But hopefully, this photo is in public domain. It will explain where I am going.

Notice that there are no belts in front of the girls sitting on the high stools. There is a line shaft running down next to the baseboard in front of their feet. The belts are coming up from there to their machines mounted on the extended table.

Don, I wanted to avoild having my diorama start looking like a doll house, so I did't want to go up another 9 feet to put another row of line shafts that would come down to the heavy cast iron textile machinery from above.

This way, we wil give the impression that power is coming upstairs through the floor via belting. We will see the pulleys running in the floor mounted pillow blocks.

Thanks for asking.

John

Edit: Don, I forgot to mention that provsion will also be made for a full sized 6 in. belt to come through the floor and travel all the way up to the ceiling of the second floor. Its pulley wlll be on the drive shaft as well, but will be under an open hole in the floor. It just won't be belt. At this point, there is no second floor all the way up.
Title: Re: Textile Mill Diorama
Post by: ShopShoe on October 18, 2018, 10:13:57 PM
J.L.,

It looks like the girls have some kind of a foot control for their machines, which would make sense with the floor-mounted lineshaft.

It also looks like their are some electric lamps at the "workstations." I think your assumption that electricity is being used in your mill works with this.

I like to look at the details in old photographs like this to imagine how it all went together. I can almost hear the noise...

--ShopShoe
Title: Re: Textile Mill Diorama
Post by: b.lindsey on October 19, 2018, 12:59:35 AM
Loving all the detail work as always John. I could use a few of those workbenches too if you can scale them up about 12 times :)

Bill
Title: Re: Textile Mill Diorama
Post by: J.L. on October 19, 2018, 12:12:57 PM
Well Bill, Alice in Wonderland sipped a potion that reduced her significantly in size to enter the fanciful world of Lewis Carroll. Some of that and you would be right at home working at the bench.  ;)

The first set of line shaft hangers are up.



Title: Re: Textile Mill Diorama
Post by: 10KPete on October 19, 2018, 03:48:40 PM
I agree, those would look silly mounted on the floor.....

 :ThumbsUp: :ThumbsUp:

Pete
Title: Re: Textile Mill Diorama
Post by: ddmckee54 on October 19, 2018, 10:15:50 PM
John:

Looking at the picture I can kind of see what you're getting at.  It looks to me like the line-shaft at the ceiling, just to the left of the column, is the main drive shaft for that floor.  It in turn powers at least 3 other line-shafts in the picture including the one that is belted down to the line-shaft I believe you're referring to under the sewing machines.

Bottom line - it's YOUR mill, power it the way you want.  Screw 'em if they can't take a joke.   

Don
Title: Re: Textile Mill Diorama
Post by: J.L. on October 19, 2018, 10:23:57 PM
Hello Shop Shoe,

Yes, from what I've read, electricity went through many phases (no pun intended) as its use expanded.

This is a textile mill electrical board when single stranded wire and knob and tube were in fashion both in residential and commercial use.

I've broken with historical accuracy again here. I am using double stranded wire in conduit tubing. Junction boxes are made to turn corners. But the conduit tidies up the wire strands nicely on the vertical surface over the fire door. Otherwise, I plan to just glue sections of the wire under the beams.
Title: Re: Textile Mill Diorama
Post by: derekwarner on October 20, 2018, 04:06:52 AM
JL.....

Just a small point, belt drive Line Shafts were I believe standard lengths of ??? Ft, however were joined by Rigid, [non flexible] face to face bolted couplings...... Derek

[PS.....I am sure the large air ventilation ducting shown in the second image is a more recent after inclusion]
Title: Re: Textile Mill Diorama
Post by: J.L. on October 20, 2018, 11:17:57 AM
Hi Derek.

My first line shaft section is 12 ft. long. Strelinger & Co. sold  diametes 1/4" to 1" in 6' lengths; 15/16" to 2 15/16" in 8' to 24' lengths and 1/2" to 3 15/16" in 12' and 16' lengths. They note:

"We are prepared to furnish, at short notice, large Shafts of any diameter up to 12 inches and of any length to 30 ft. Prices quoted upon application."

Shaft couplings were of many styles; the flanged couplings like the ones you show or halved clamped couplings with eight bolts. All this info can be found on page 357 of their catalog.

But Strelinger preferred the Collin's Patent Couplings. "Collins' has given our customers and ourselves as well better satisfaction than any other."

The sleeve which was in halves were bored slightly smaller than the diameter of the shaft. Cone rings were driven well home with a copper or babbitt metal hammer or block of hardwood and locked by the ring nuts on either end - "the sleeve is so compressed upon the shaft as to prevent the slightest movements in the connection.

There you go Derek. More information than you probably wanted to know. The next page in the catalog begins showing clutch couplings, safety set collars and rod straighteners!

If you are into historical information of this sort, I highly recomment this book available at PMR.

Cheers...John




Title: Lighting/Wiring
Post by: J.L. on October 20, 2018, 02:55:36 PM
I've been looking forward to working with the lighting. This work has to be done while the beams are still exposed.

I ordered seven lights for the engine room and the shop and one light mounted on a curved conduit.

But the seven lights came with no mountings. These photos show the design of a threaded mount for each one. They are made out of 3/8" aluminum rod.

The first two pictures show the light over the firewall arch and the junction box on the other side.

Title: Lighting
Post by: J.L. on October 20, 2018, 08:53:06 PM

The lights are mounted up against the ceiling of the engine room.. Boring a little hole through the threaded mounting stud made it quite easy (photo 3).

There are four; one over each door, one over the firewall arch and one over the workbench.
Title: Power
Post by: J.L. on October 21, 2018, 02:23:12 PM
The lighst are 12 volt DC incandescent.

On the internet, you can purchase male/female connecting plugs very cheaply. The second pic shows the hexagonal section turned round so that the female unit will fit in a hole drilled just under the surface of the rafters.

A 12 volt transformer with an added switch will make the powering of the lights very easy and clean.

Title: Re: Textile Mill Diorama
Post by: J.L. on October 21, 2018, 07:44:59 PM
I have a story that turned out well in the end.

When all was wired up, I plugged in the transformer, turned on the switch and was pleased to see the light go green. With high expectations, I plugged its male end into the receptacle on the diorama. It was as though the diorama had never heard of Edison. Nothing!

And of course, I had shrink wrapped all the connections.  :-[  Lesson learned.

So it was a game of finding the faulty connection.  Fortunately it was just the last female lead wire I had turned round in the lathe that turned out to be faulty.  I found it by bypassing it with a new pigtail as a starting point and all the lights came to life!

So now the end of the new female plug stands pround of the back wall. It actually looks better than the earlier recessed one.

A happy ending.

I will be interested in seeing how the engine room looks in the dark.

Remember these?


Title: Re: Textile Mill Diorama
Post by: Ye-Ole Steam Dude on October 21, 2018, 07:56:45 PM
Hello JL,

That is way too cool, looks so real.

Have a great day,
Thomas
Title: Re: Textile Mill Diorama
Post by: crueby on October 21, 2018, 08:12:44 PM
wow - in the dark with just the scale room lights adds so much!
Title: Re: Textile Mill Diorama
Post by: Admiral_dk on October 21, 2018, 08:55:43 PM
The last two pictures a just amazing  :praise2:
Title: Re: Textile Mill Diorama
Post by: Mike Bondarczuk on October 21, 2018, 09:04:01 PM
WOW,

That has so much ambience it is almost as if I was in there at lights out time.

Really well done and I have been following your progress for a long time and am still amazed at the high quality of your work and attention to detail.

Mike
Title: Re: Textile Mill Diorama
Post by: JC54 on October 21, 2018, 09:09:45 PM
 :praise2: :praise2:The lighting is brilliant, made me start looking for the clocking on machine as I have just turned up for night shift.   :shrug:   :old: :DrinkPint:
Title: Re: Textile Mill Diorama
Post by: derekwarner on October 21, 2018, 11:43:55 PM
I agree JL......the last image 19c_ .......looks so realistic

Having said this, I think we as members of this 21st Century see what we expect to  see in terms of actual brightness in the image

I have a distinct image in my mind  :old: of the roof lighting in a machine shop on afternoon shift in 1966......definitely a little dimmer & yellowish lighting hue

If you do make & place a "Bundy Clock''....just make sure it is in clear view of the Foreman's Office ....wouldn't like anyone clocking on anothers time card  :embarassed:....

[in your local, I think it would have been branded a Remington Time/Card Machine]

Derek
Title: Re: Textile Mill Diorama
Post by: b.lindsey on October 22, 2018, 12:39:49 AM
Stunning photos John. Just amazing!!!

Bill
Title: Line Shaft Pulleys 1
Post by: J.L. on October 22, 2018, 07:24:10 PM
Thank you for the kind words gentlemen. I agree. Seeing the engine in that light is quite dramatic. It does make you think of the night watchman keeping an eye on things with his time clock over his shouder as he makes his rounds.

It's off to the line shaft pulleys now. They are very nicely cast and are kept in place with a #3-48 setscrew.

Title: Line Shaft Pulleys 2
Post by: J.L. on October 24, 2018, 02:49:45 PM
I made a jig for crowning the pulleys, but it is really not robust enough to prevent chatter when being swung back and forth across the face of the pulleys.  Nevertheless it puts and equal amount of arc on both sides of the pulley's centre line.
Title: To Date
Post by: J.L. on October 25, 2018, 02:27:37 PM
A lot of work is being done with wiring and the placement of the line shafts before the subfloor got into plae.

Interesting work.

Title: Re: Textile Mill Diorama
Post by: b.lindsey on October 25, 2018, 02:51:25 PM
Neat dedicated jig John, so what did you do to eliminate the chatter or chatter marks afterward?  The final finish looks good!

Bill
Title: Re: Textile Mill Diorama
Post by: J.L. on October 25, 2018, 03:54:19 PM
Hi Bill,
Thanks. It is always intereting to watch a flat belt centre itself on a crowned pulley.

The chatter marks were removed by filing and sanding the aluminum sufrace while the pulley was still on the mandrel.

I made sure I was wearing a mask when sanding the metal.

Cheer...John
Title: Re: Textile Mill Diorama
Post by: J.L. on October 25, 2018, 06:32:50 PM
One last check will be made before the subfloor is laid to ensure that all the electrics are working! This is a 12 volt DC system powered by a small 110 v AC  transformer.

I might also install the 6" belts before gluing on the subfloor over the line shafts. The outside of the belts will be painted brown. The lettering on the belt makes one think of a fan belt!


Title: Re: Textile Mill Diorama
Post by: ddmckee54 on October 25, 2018, 10:27:39 PM
If I remember correctly, you stitch the joints in your belts, don't you?

I don't imagine there's too much call for the alligator style flat belt lacing that size.

Don
Title: Re: Textile Mill Diorama
Post by: J.L. on October 26, 2018, 02:28:20 PM
Hi Don,
Yes, I use heavy glove thread to represent cut rawhide lace leather. You will note in the first photo that the lacing is parallel on the inside face of the belt. The crisscrossing was always done on the other side.

Leather belts were also skived, lapped and glued. Metal connectors were also very common, but never used in high speed applications. Quoting from Strelinger's catalog:

"For Electrical, and in fact all high speed machinery, the Belting used should be a cemented belt, without rivets or metallic fastenings of any kind."

Title: First Line Shaft Belt
Post by: J.L. on October 26, 2018, 10:13:49 PM
The first of four line shaft belts is in place. It will carry power upstairs to ceiling and floor line shafts and carry on into the woodworking shop to power the table saw and perhaps a converted wood lathe.


Title: Re: Textile Mill Diorama
Post by: JC54 on October 27, 2018, 01:50:11 AM
Just a quick question, was there any tensioning on each belt or did it rely on belt fit? :thinking: :old: :DrinkPint:
Title: Re: Textile Mill Diorama
Post by: derekwarner on October 27, 2018, 05:39:00 AM
JC....as an apprentice  :old: many many years ago I remember making new flat leather belts with that patiented  alligator pinched/crimped wire ends + a  twine type wire inserted & locking the halves for form the endless loop

It was an art form getting the spacing of each half just out of step with the other so they intertwined however with the sides of the belt square

In may cases, a small arm with a counterweight and a 3rd flat pulley provided the tension and drive

The belts were always finished side outer, so the drive was via the unleavened side of the leather

Rosen [a yellow powder from crushed yellow rock??] was sprinkled between the pulley & belt during rotation to gain friction

In most cases, each pulley was radius crowned, so the belts always rode on the highest point of diameter

Derek

PS....as part of the training, we had to measure the diameter of each pulley, measure the centre distance & calculate the the length of leather belting to be cut, we also had to show our calculations to a Tradesman [or Foreman] to back check to ensure no wastage  :toilet_claw: of leather

Title: Re: Textile Mill Diorama
Post by: J.L. on October 27, 2018, 01:41:46 PM
Hi Derek. Good personal information about mechanical belt fasteners. Thanks.

JC, to furthur answer your question, there were commercial belt tighteners available at that time. Derek mentioned  a small arm with a counterweight and a 3rd flat pulley provided the tension and drive.

The first photo shows the gravity type. Along with it are photos of one I made for the 19th Century Machine Shop Diorama.

The last shot is a cut of the the mechanical type where a sled on a track was advanced to bear against the belt.

Thanks for asking.

John
 
Title: Re: Textile Mill Diorama
Post by: J.L. on October 27, 2018, 09:42:06 PM
The belt work is complete in the engine room except for the little belt that will come through the floor up to the floor mounted line shaft upstairs.

The engineers will not be very happy with the carpenters who drilled some holes in the beams and flooring. Obviously they neglected to put a tarp over the flywheel.  ::)

Title: Re: Textile Mill Diorama
Post by: crueby on October 27, 2018, 10:13:46 PM
Messy carpenters aside, that is looking terrific! Easy to forget its a scale model, your realism is fantastic.   :popcorn: :popcorn: :popcorn:
Title: Re: Textile Mill Diorama
Post by: b.lindsey on October 27, 2018, 10:27:43 PM
You are getting close now John. Looks fantastic as always.

Bill
Title: Re: Textile Mill Diorama
Post by: rspringer on October 27, 2018, 11:18:52 PM
Love the attention to detail.  The little "clacker" on the shaft.  I really like the sound several on the same shaft make and watching them run back and forth.  Going to see what is one of the longest working overhead drive systems left in the US next weekend. 
Title: Re: Textile Mill Diorama
Post by: J.L. on October 28, 2018, 01:11:34 AM
Thank you fellows.

Bill, I won't even be through the door into the woodworking shop at the back until November.

Hello  rspringer  :)

Thank you.  What a fascinating visit that will be! If you get a few shots feel free to post them on this thread.  ;)
Title: Re: Textile Mill Diorama
Post by: 10KPete on October 28, 2018, 03:02:00 AM
Outstanding!!! 

 :ThumbsUp: :popcorn: :popcorn: :ThumbsUp:

Pete
Title: Re: Textile Mill Diorama
Post by: fumopuc on October 28, 2018, 05:51:18 PM
Hi John, that's brilliant.
Title: Re: Textile Mill Diorama
Post by: JC54 on October 28, 2018, 06:42:03 PM
Many thanks all for the replies re- belt tensioning,  John :old: :DrinkPint:
Title: Re: Textile Mill Diorama
Post by: J.L. on October 29, 2018, 11:51:15 AM
You are very welcome.

When I was reviewing some of my early photos of line shafts, hangers,belts and pulleys, I came upon some that may be of interest here since the topic is being discussed.


Title: Re: Textile Mill Diorama
Post by: Ye-Ole Steam Dude on October 29, 2018, 12:37:55 PM
Hello JL,

Photo 5232 is just "over the top", that could have been taken in almost any plant / factory in the 1800's to early 1900's anywhere in America. You need to take the exact same photo except at night with the lights on. I am really enjoying your work.

Have a great day,
Thomas
Title: Flooring
Post by: J.L. on October 29, 2018, 07:30:19 PM
Thanks Thomas.

I'll be taking a night shot for sure. I had to test that everything worked before I put down the subfloor and I must say, the lighting is looking very nice. The night watchman will be pleased.

Random board widths of Southern Pine come in 11" x 17" sheets with the boards bonded to a thin sheet of paper. But with a run of over 24 ', a sheet can not be used as is. Each strip has to be cut out of the sheet and fitted together at random lengths to stagger the joints.

Each piece of stripping takes 24 minutes to dry under weights. I'm using white glue instead of the yellow carpenter's glue.
Title: Re: Textile Mill Diorama
Post by: b.lindsey on October 29, 2018, 08:41:32 PM
Slow process, but will look great when done. At least you can do other things while it's drying 😊

Bill
Title: Re: Textile Mill Diorama
Post by: J.L. on October 31, 2018, 03:14:14 PM
Yes Bill, I've actually been online during the 'drying cycles' looking for another engine to work up in a diorama. I think I may have found it. ;)

Getting close...
Title: Re: Textile Mill Diorama
Post by: crueby on October 31, 2018, 03:35:03 PM
Now here would be a huge diorama to do, the water pumping station in Buffalo - can get you plans! Only five engines, roomful of boilers....

(https://s5.postimg.cc/q0vx81cnb/DSC_7640a.jpg)
Title: Re: Textile Mill Diorama
Post by: derekwarner on November 01, 2018, 09:48:02 AM
JL...just something for consideration down the track

Irrespective of the country of origin, I am sure steam plants of similar size & period would have been maintained within or to a written set of protocols ...or in this case start up procedures :happyreader:

Many Plants worked a 14 hour single shift day........so if the Plant was to be bought online at 6:00 AM, the Boiler attendant may have started at 4:00 AM.....and a part of his duties could have been to ensure that engine Steam oil was at or above a required level

So you could consider adding some type of max/min oil level markings for the displacement lubricator

Derek
Title: Re: Textile Mill Diorama
Post by: J.L. on November 01, 2018, 01:47:22 PM
As you say Derek, perhaps something down the road.

The planking on the second floor of the mill is complete. It looks as though one beam is going to require a second coat of white.  ::)

I experimented a bit with lighting in the boiler room as well....


Title: Re: Textile Mill Diorama
Post by: J.L. on November 01, 2018, 01:49:26 PM
Hi Chris,

Now that would be a bit over the top for me. Notice how pump houses always had rounded windows at the top. Often the sills were sloped down as well. I bet you the goal was to admit as much light into the building as possible.

John
Title: Re: Textile Mill Diorama
Post by: crueby on November 01, 2018, 02:06:01 PM
Hi Chris,

Now that would be a bit over the top for me. Notice how pump houses always had rounded windows at the top. Often the sills were sloped down as well. I bet you the goal was to admit as much light into the building as possible.

John
Yes, the day I was there the place was brightly lit from the windows and skylights, there were only a few electric lights.
Title: Re: Textile Mill Diorama
Post by: J.L. on November 03, 2018, 06:01:04 PM
I mentioned attempting to make a floor mounted line shaft some time ago to operate smaller machinery on tables.

The second floor of the textile mill is rather plain at this point, so I decided to bring a belt through the floor to operate such machinery.

There will be no overhead beamwork on the second floor to carry any upper line shaft hangers. However, I wanted something to be happening on the second floor of the mill.

 I decided to make my own from floor mounted bearings from existing PMR cast line shaft hangers. I thought they woudl look rather silly sitting on the floor upright, so they were cut down to look more like bearings meant to be bolted to the floor.

My attempt...




Title: Re: Textile Mill Diorama
Post by: Ye-Ole Steam Dude on November 03, 2018, 06:10:14 PM
Hello JL,

Really neat they will add to the 2nd floor.

Have a great day,
Thomas
Title: Re: Textile Mill Diorama
Post by: JC54 on November 03, 2018, 06:41:22 PM
Hi Chris,

Now that would be a bit over the top for me. Notice how pump houses always had rounded windows at the top. Often the sills were sloped down as well. I bet you the goal was to admit as much light into the building as possible.
 
Could the window sills also be sloped to make them easier to clean and stop people blocking the windows with stuff on the sills?

            John :DrinkPint: :old:
Title: Re: Textile Mill Diorama
Post by: 10KPete on November 03, 2018, 08:48:18 PM
Good looking bearings, John! Will you make a 'cut-off' wall around the second floor, maybe a few feet high, with short studs and partial siding? Maybe keep the gals from falling out?  :shrug:

 :popcorn: :ThumbsUp: :popcorn:

Pete
Title: Re: Textile Mill Diorama
Post by: J.L. on November 04, 2018, 02:35:21 PM
Good point JC.

Hi Pete,

Perfect timing with your question Pete. Tom and I have been discussiong how to dress up the second floor a bit. Right now, it looks rather plain. I thought of a pile of photos (4" x 6") sitting on the floor showing activities in the cotton mills of the time. But Tom suggested mounting them on easels as a display.

Then I got thinking about a backwall where they could be mounted. As you suggest, it would come up a bit but not all the way past the windows to the beams. Windows would not have to be modelled at the back, so the back wall would be the mounting surface for the photos.

Great minds think alike.  ;)

I placed the floor mounted bearing block (I don't know why they are sometimes called pillow blocks) on the second floor but it looked rather bland.
But I remember seeing a cut in the Strelinger catalog (photo 1) where base plates were often used. Now that would add some interest.

It's all in the details...


Title: Smaller Wide Pulleys
Post by: J.L. on November 04, 2018, 10:24:05 PM
PMR make very nice die cast spoked pulleys for line shafts. They are a full 1/2" wide which is necesssary if you want a 1/4" belt to slide from a loose to a fixed pulley below to turn a machine on or off.

But they dropped the ball when they did not make smaller ones of the same thickness to accomplish the same purpose with a different speed ratio.

The only answer is to cement two thin pulleys of smaller diameter together if you want the 'spoked' look. I have turned smaller, wider pulleys from round bar stock on this project, but the spoked pulleys add nice detail.

Title: Re: Textile Mill Diorama
Post by: Roger B on November 05, 2018, 07:16:28 PM
Wonderful  :praise2:  :praise2: I always enjoy looking in on this thread for all the fine details  :ThumbsUp:  :ThumbsUp:
Title: Re: Textile Mill Diorama
Post by: rspringer on November 06, 2018, 04:39:45 PM
I made it to the Soule steam festival in Meridian MS this weekend.  I photographed a little of the line shaft.  Please excuse some of the quality the light in the old building was almost all coming through the windows. 
Title: Re: Textile Mill Diorama
Post by: Ye-Ole Steam Dude on November 06, 2018, 05:14:27 PM
Hello JL,

You know when you think about it, that is a pretty efficient system with just one engine running all that equipment.

Nice photos rspringer.

Have a great day,
Thomas
Title: Re: Textile Mill Diorama
Post by: crueby on November 06, 2018, 05:26:56 PM
Great shots - I like the fan at the one end, all the air conditioning they got.
Title: Re: Textile Mill Diorama
Post by: J.L. on November 06, 2018, 06:10:49 PM
Thank you for the line shaft photographs rspringer! Good of you to share them here.

Yes Thomas, it was quite the effecient system but it must have been a pain to maintain the shafts and bearings. And in the early days hangers were mounted on wooden beams.

John
Title: Re: Textile Mill Diorama
Post by: Larry Sw on November 06, 2018, 10:09:29 PM
I wonder how many HP it took just to spin the whole line shaft with all the pulleys and belts
and no machinery working ?

Larry S
Title: Re: Textile Mill Diorama
Post by: rspringer on November 07, 2018, 12:58:30 AM
look at photo 2540 at the bottom just to the left of the chain hoist.  That is the electric motor that ran the whole place.  Notice the 3 wires with coils in them. 
2529 is the drive for freight elevator
2536 is the smaller lathe
2543 is the big one

Rod
Title: Re: Textile Mill Diorama
Post by: ShopShoe on November 07, 2018, 02:15:45 PM

"it must have been a pain to maintain the shafts and bearings."

According to a documentary I saw a long time ago (PBS, I think.), The bearings in early mills were greased by small boys who crawled up among the beams and shafts and belts with buckets of grease. Those were the "Grease Monkeys."

--ShopShoe
Title: Re: Textile Mill Diorama
Post by: ddmckee54 on November 07, 2018, 08:12:39 PM
Regarding the coils of wire in photo 2540, strain reliefs either hadn't been invented yet or they were REALLY expensive.  Those coils of wire allowed the wires/connections to move around a little bit without stressing the connections to the point where they would break.  It's a wooden structure which will absorb some of the vibration, but things are going to move around a little bit, sometimes a lot, due to vibration from un-balanced parts.

Don
Title: Re: Textile Mill Diorama
Post by: J.L. on November 07, 2018, 08:41:04 PM
Interesting facts Don.

While we are on the topic of line shafts, on page 49 of this thread, Derek circled in red, the face to face bolted couplings that joined sections of line shafts together. They were quite common and often did the job well.

However, in the Strelinger & Co. 1895 Book of Tools, Machinery and Supplies, they could be a problem if not tightly installed.

*"At first, where such couplings are badly fitted, shafting will not run ture. Afterwards the line will spread because the shaft will slip out of the couplings endwise. and again. the shaft will grind out the key and its seat, and ruin in a few days what it cost much money and trouble to mend."

They recommed compression couplings I described earleir in the thread.

*pg. 357

Title: Fire Suppression
Post by: J.L. on November 08, 2018, 07:27:03 PM
"The round bottom bucket is coming into very general use for purposes of fire protection."
Chas A Strelingerr & Co. 1895
pg. 396

This ensured that if the bucket were borrowed for any other purpose, the user would bring it back and hang it up!

I found a picture on the internet of  buckets hanging on posts that served the same purpose but were more effective with a handle on the bottom. The user could grab the handle of the bucket with one hand and aim it by grabbing a handle fastened to its bottom with their other.

A nice detail for the diorama. Some extra sand used to fill between the bricks of my front walkway came in handy.  ;)
Title: Re: Textile Mill Diorama
Post by: Tennessee Whiskey on November 08, 2018, 07:34:48 PM
The attention to detail is Smithsonian quality  :ThumbsUp: :ThumbsUp:. Iím just blown away.

Whiskey
Title: Re: Textile Mill Diorama
Post by: b.lindsey on November 08, 2018, 09:38:40 PM
These are the little things that add so much to your dioramas John. Great stuff!!

Bill
Title: Re: Textile Mill Diorama
Post by: J.L. on November 09, 2018, 09:35:48 PM
Thank you for your kind words Bill.

I do enjoy tellig the story of the machines in their setting.

I have decided that there will be no textile machinery on the second floor of the diorama. Instead I will gather some colour public domain  photos from the internet and fasten them to the back wall of the second floor. Thus, I have given up on the notion of having a floor mounted line shaft. The equipment for the line shaft will be there, but because there is no machinery, the bearings and pulley will look as though they are ready to be installed.

Notice the big cotton box in photo one. That I will model.
Title: Re: Textile Mill Diorama
Post by: b.lindsey on November 10, 2018, 12:40:55 AM
That equipment would be fun to model...brown stuff and metal both😊.

Bill
Title: Re: Textile Mill Diorama
Post by: J.L. on November 10, 2018, 03:15:53 PM
I agree Bill. Black cast iron frames, geared pulleys and lots of little details. It would be quite a project.

But as  you can see, a lot of the floor space is not planked.

I'll be interested to see how the pictures look mounted on the back wall.

Title: The Boiler House
Post by: J.L. on November 11, 2018, 03:45:26 PM
Things are drawing to a close with the first half of the diorama.
Some of these photos will find their way into a book about the project. Unfortunately, Apple has ceased pubishing books. You can still assemble the books in iPhoto, but have to download third party software to publish them. And of course, you have to upgrade your machine to download the software.

Final shots of the boiler house...
Title: Re: Textile Mill Diorama
Post by: zeeprogrammer on November 11, 2018, 05:37:30 PM
 :popcorn: Still watching. Fascinating.

I didn't know the fire buckets had a handle underneath.
Title: Re: Textile Mill Diorama
Post by: J.L. on November 11, 2018, 06:05:18 PM
Hi Carl,
Thanks. Good to have you peeking in.

Not all fire pails did have that handle. I was surprised as well when I saw it in that photo.

At the time they must have been paranoid about getting those pails back on the hook and available for use immediately. I can see the pails being borrowed for other things with the honest intention of bringing them back. But human nature being what it is, that didn't always happen.

Clever though to make the pail rather useless for general use. Here is a photo of a more common galvanized fire pail.

The other pics finish a look at the engine room...

Title: Re: Textile Mill Diorama
Post by: 10KPete on November 11, 2018, 07:03:33 PM
 :ThumbsUp: :ThumbsUp: :popcorn: :popcorn:

Pete
Title: Re: Textile Mill Diorama
Post by: J.L. on November 11, 2018, 07:33:18 PM
Thanks Pete,

One last look at the upper floor. Thanks go to Thomas Saunders for sugggestng photos of machinery to tell the story of "what was going on up there".

Title: To Date
Post by: J.L. on November 11, 2018, 07:36:11 PM
And one last photo before we turn the diorama around to begin the other side:
Title: Re: Textile Mill Diorama
Post by: b.lindsey on November 11, 2018, 07:56:46 PM
The picture idea is novel but very effective giver the limited space. So the other side is to be a woodshop?

Bill
Title: Re: Textile Mill Diorama
Post by: J.L. on November 11, 2018, 09:01:23 PM
Yes Bill.

Although, over time, the mills developed cast iron machinery, there was a great need for many joining pieces of wood. And thern there were the countless number of bobbins, spools and spindles that had to be made or repaired.

The workshop I'm modelling is but a tiny, tiny portion of the workshop that would be attached to the mill. I'm only representing 9.5 ft. x 20.5 ft. of floorspace. The room comes toward us at least another 20 ft. to accommodate some of the newer heavy machinery developed close to the turn of the century for woodworking (photo 3).

Note the line shaft peeking through the back wall of the engine room above the window.



Title: Re: Textile Mill Diorama
Post by: wagnmkr on November 11, 2018, 11:10:28 PM
Those photographs and the paraphernalia you have laying around up pn the second floor do the trick rather well John. Looking Really Good.

Tom
Title: Re: Textile Mill Diorama
Post by: BAH on November 13, 2018, 02:20:59 AM
This is absolute stunning, all your work is amazing. Thanks for sharing.
Title: Re: Textile Mill Diorama
Post by: J.L. on November 13, 2018, 06:15:50 PM
Thank you BAH.

Tom, the pictures do tell the story and save an incredible amount of work attempting to make something even resenbling those complex machines. And as Bill says, the floor space up there is limited.

So now we turn our attention to the shop.

The focal point will be the table saw. I want to bring it forward as far as possible because we are not looking at the centre of the room but rather only the back one-third.

Any carpenter will tell you that the first thing they turn their thoughts to when settig up a woodworking shop is not the machinery , but the workbench.

In this shop, a carpenter's bench is being built up with a front and tail vice. It will sit against the east wall to the left of the door.

P.S. Do  you see what's wrong with how I set the casting for the table saw for the photo?
Title: Re: Textile Mill Diorama
Post by: b.lindsey on November 14, 2018, 12:49:56 AM
It would limit the length of material you could handle I would think.

Bill
Title: Re: Textile Mill Diorama
Post by: crueby on November 14, 2018, 12:52:16 AM
It would limit the length of material you could handle I would think.

Bill
Good point Bill. My woodshop is the second floor of my house, the table saw sits right in the center, been times it was the only way to cut long boards for the boats.
Title: Re: Textile Mill Diorama
Post by: steam guy willy on November 14, 2018, 03:21:44 AM
Yes Bill.

Although, over time, the mills developed cast iron machinery, there was a great need for many joining pieces of wood. And thern there were the countless number of bobbins, spools and spindles that had to be made or repaired.

The workshop I'm modelling is but a tiny, tiny portion of the workshop that would be attached to the mill. I'm only representing 9.5 ft. x 20.5 ft. of floorspace. The room comes toward us at least another 20 ft. to accommodate some of the newer heavy machinery developed close to the turn of the century for woodworking (photo 3).

Note the line shaft peeking through the back wall of the engine room above the window.    Hi John ,I used to have one of those Old cast iron bandsaws that is contemporaneous with the machinery in your illustration !! A grey machine and it was called The Comet   so was it built when Haleys comet passed over in the  19century ??!!! This was when i used to make violins and cello's in the 1970's ...
Title: Re: Textile Mill Diorama
Post by: J.L. on November 14, 2018, 09:02:06 PM
Thanks for sharing this great photo Steam Guy Willy. You can't beat a bandsaw for ripping large stock. I used one I made myself for cutting blanks for my wood lathe.

Hi Chris,
Great minds think alike. Before I poured the concrete floor in my shop, I made sure that there was a duplex receptical box mounted right in the centre of the room raised on a short piece of conduit. The table saw sits right over it and has its  power cord neatly tucked directly underneath. Like yours, you can walk right around the saw and have room to rip long stock.

Bill, I imagine this saw will be used mainly for crosscutting, but it will rip an 8' board the way it is sitting now.

No, the reason I questioned its position is that the lineshaft overhead will be running clockwise. Oops. Rahter than have to fuss with twisting the belt, I'll turn the saw around when its built and see if there is enough reaonable floorspace for its operation.

John
Title: Re: Textile Mill Diorama
Post by: J.L. on November 18, 2018, 04:18:38 PM
There are still fellows out there who thoroughly enjoy working with hand woodworking tools and building modern versions of carpenter's benches used generations ago. Lee Valley in Canada sell modern versions of vices for wooden benches along with spring loaded bench dogs.

These photos show the construction of the front leg vice in a bench made of solid maple.

Title: Re: Textile Mill Diorama
Post by: J.L. on November 19, 2018, 06:26:59 PM
Laminating the top and making the sundry woodworking items completes the carpenter's workbench.

The metal brass dog will be painted black.

Title: Re: Textile Mill Diorama
Post by: zeeprogrammer on November 19, 2018, 08:32:54 PM
Awesome.  :ThumbsUp:
Title: Re: Textile Mill Diorama
Post by: crueby on November 19, 2018, 09:14:50 PM
Very nice! The vises are slightly different, but I have one similar to that up in my wood shop.
 :popcorn: :popcorn: :popcorn:
Title: Re: Textile Mill Diorama
Post by: J.L. on November 19, 2018, 09:58:04 PM
Thanks Carl and Chris.

Chris one version of the bench I like has a wooden vertical round holed  plate between the legs at the front. I wasn't sure how it would be used until I saw a picture of a woodworker planing the edge of a board. Apparently you clamp the board on its edge in the front vice and line the board up parallel with the top of the bench by positioning a peg in the vertical support below the board.

John

 
Title: Re: Textile Mill Diorama
Post by: crueby on November 19, 2018, 10:43:45 PM
Thanks Carl and Chris.

Chris one version of the bench I like has a wooden vertical round holed  plate between the legs at the front. I wasn't sure how it would be used until I saw a picture of a woodworker planing the edge of a board. Apparently you clamp the board on its edge in the front vice and line the board up parallel with the top of the bench by positioning a peg in the vertical support below the board.

John
Yes, thats what its for, very handy for planing edges of panels and doors.
Title: Re: Textile Mill Diorama
Post by: Johnmcc69 on November 19, 2018, 10:53:52 PM
Just fantastic work John!
 I really like those tiny hand planes & the bench turned out beautifully.

 John
Title: Re: Textile Mill Diorama
Post by: J.L. on November 20, 2018, 04:09:20 PM
Thanks John.

The lumber racks under the window have been loaded, Chris, you are a woodworker as well. Recognize the woods?

In the second photo, wood meets metal. You can see the engine's  flywheel and a line shaft pulley through the window.

P.S. Just noticed the pump handled oiler in the lower right pane as well.
Title: Re: Textile Mill Diorama
Post by: crueby on November 20, 2018, 05:15:14 PM
...
The lumber racks under the window have been loaded, Chris, you are a woodworker as well. Recognize the woods?
...
Well, from the photo I would guess, top to bottom, maple, oak, and mahogany or paduak (color varies so much board to board)?
Title: Re: Textile Mill Diorama
Post by: J.L. on November 20, 2018, 05:59:10 PM
Chris, you're good.

From top down:
hard maple
walnut (hard to see)
red oak
soft pine
basswood
padauk (one of my favourites)

Title: Re: Textile Mill Diorama
Post by: Roger B on November 20, 2018, 08:01:04 PM
Still enjoying your wonderful attention to the fine details  :praise2:  :praise2: My wife came in whilst I was looking at the latest pictures and was fascinated by your work  :ThumbsUp:  :wine1:
Title: The Table Saw
Post by: J.L. on November 21, 2018, 03:35:10 PM
Thanks Roger. Taking the photos is as enjoyable as working up the parts.

It's time to get back to some metal.

I found chucking the table casting challenging. Two holes are required in-line for the spindle mandrel and the table top trunnions.
Title: Re: Textile Mill Diorama
Post by: RonGinger on November 21, 2018, 06:49:15 PM
John, a few pages back you mentioned a photo book of your diorama and that Apple had changed its printing.

 I know there are on line services that will let you set  up a photo book, then sell them to the public. You would make some money off each one sold and would not have to be involved in any of the ordering or shipping. On example, Lulu.com will publish a 75 page color photo book to sell for $29.95. You make about $15 on each one sold.

If you make up such a book of this project I would be very quick to buy one.

I am a book lover, but also in awe of this diorama. I would love to have it on paper so I could thumb through it when I need inspiration to keep pressing on some project.

BTW- if Chris is reading this one Id buy a book of both the Lombard and the Marion.

Title: Re: Textile Mill Diorama
Post by: crueby on November 21, 2018, 07:55:59 PM
John, a few pages back you mentioned a photo book of your diorama and that Apple had changed its printing.

 I know there are on line services that will let you set  up a photo book, then sell them to the public. You would make some money off each one sold and would not have to be involved in any of the ordering or shipping. On example, Lulu.com will publish a 75 page color photo book to sell for $29.95. You make about $15 on each one sold.

If you make up such a book of this project I would be very quick to buy one.

I am a book lover, but also in awe of this diorama. I would love to have it on paper so I could thumb through it when I need inspiration to keep pressing on some project.

BTW- if Chris is reading this one Id buy a book of both the Lombard and the Marion.
Hi Ron, yes, I am reading here - I have never looked into that kind of service before. The Lombard pics/text are being printed in Live Steam right now, they are planning on going to a book when the magazine serializing is complete, so I would think they might be upset if I printed elsewhere first. Same for the Marion, they want that one too. At the rates they are paying me, I will leave it up to them! Interesting idea though, may look into putting up my sets of portraits of the real machines.

Chris
Title: Re: Textile Mill Diorama
Post by: J.L. on November 21, 2018, 08:16:37 PM
Hi Ron,
You have given me an intriguing idea. I have produced over a dozen books featuring the construciton of my dioramas. They are just one-off copies from Apple,which has now gone out of the printing of photo books.

I will definitely look into this.

Thank you very much.

John
Title: The Saw Table
Post by: J.L. on November 22, 2018, 09:32:59 PM
This PMR table saw must be patterned after a very easy design. To my mind it would be quite dangerous to operate.

The table is raised and lowered by the saw table jack screw you see lying. beside the frame of the saw in the third photo. Quite primitive. The table pivots up and down rather than the saw arbour pivoting up and down.

In other words, If you want a shallow cut, you would crank the table up and run your work downhill into the saw!

I'm sure this design did not stay on the market long, once someone came up with the idea of mounting the saw arbour on a pivot instead of the table.


Title: Re: Textile Mill Diorama
Post by: 10KPete on November 23, 2018, 01:17:23 AM
If I recall correctly, the tilting table is the original design as made by the Shaker woman who invented the table saw. I don't know when the tilting arbor saw was invented but it was quite some time after the original.

Nice work!!

Pete
Title: Re: Textile Mill Diorama
Post by: rspringer on November 23, 2018, 03:45:48 AM
Update on the overhead line shafts at Soule Steam Feed in Mississippi.  Check out abom79 on YouTube. He just posted a good video of yhe the steam festival.
Title: Re: Textile Mill Diorama
Post by: J.L. on November 24, 2018, 09:06:30 PM
Thanks for the link. A walk into the past.

I did not know the history of this type of saw Pete. Interesting and worth some research.

The saw arbor has been made. I will have to be very careful with this saw when the total diorama is finished and running. The blade is extremely sharp.


Title: Re: Textile Mill Diorama
Post by: J.L. on November 25, 2018, 03:34:21 PM
I spent a lot of time this morning centering the last line shaft pulley in the metal lathes's 4-jaw chuck. There are three more pulleys to go for the saw itself. Then I looked over at my trusty old General 160 wood turning lathe. It had its chuck mounted with its four small expanding jaws mounted. Hmm....

I think I have just cut down the amount of work to do drilling the axle holes...

Here's another look back at those woodturning days. The ball and box boxes nest into each other. An ebony ball is a the core of the ball boxes and the  outer  lid of the other mahogany boxes is not shown.

I must say, the model engineering with the metal lathe now  is just as enjoyable as those eary woodturning days.
Title: Re: Textile Mill Diorama
Post by: crueby on November 25, 2018, 07:05:25 PM
Amazing turning work! I've never seen the nesting ball boxes before, quite intricate.   :NotWorthy:
Title: Re: Textile Mill Diorama
Post by: J.L. on November 28, 2018, 02:59:03 PM
Thanks Chris,
Turning those nesting boxes was a good challenge.

Maintianing belts, pulleys and lineshafts must have been a constant headache back in the day, but in theory, turning machinery on and off was an easy matter of simply shifting the belt from an idling pulley to a fixed one as seen in this first photo.


The second photo shows both pulleys being turned at the same time to ensure equal diameters.

Title: Re: Textile Mill Diorama
Post by: J.L. on November 28, 2018, 07:13:53 PM
The frame of the saw is now ready to reprime and paint.

The slot in the bearing blocks made it very easy to adjust the belt tension on the saw mandrel. Those actually should be bolts rather than  slot heaed philister screws, but the space was tight for a finger wrench.
Title: Re: Textile Mill Diorama
Post by: crueby on November 28, 2018, 07:45:40 PM
Sorry if you have ansered this before, but are the pulleys crowned at all to keep the belts centered?
Title: Re: Textile Mill Diorama
Post by: J.L. on November 28, 2018, 08:20:29 PM
Hi Chris,
Yes, all pulleys are crowned, I can see why you asked that question though. I turned both pulleys in one of the above pictures parallel to make sure their diameters were the same. They were then individualy crowned - a process I did not show this time.

I did mention earleir that it is interesting to watch a belt find the high diameter of the crown and center itself. If the crown is not equidistant from the centre of the pulley, you will know it.  :D

Thanks for asking.

John
Title: Re: Textile Mill Diorama
Post by: b.lindsey on November 28, 2018, 08:44:12 PM
Coming along well John. What else will be on the wood shop part of the diorama?

Bill
Title: Re: Textile Mill Diorama
Post by: J.L. on November 28, 2018, 10:06:15 PM
Hi Bill.

Thanks. Well there probably was a wealth of heavy nmachinery in front of us out of view (e.g. photo 1). We are seeing only the back section of the wood shop next to the engine room window and door.

I have not decided yet whether I am going to show an antique treadle operated foot lathe tucked away in the right corner. Other lathes would have been converted to belt drive at this time, but perhaps they left one in the corner as a machine to be used for parts.

Apparently, you can operate it with your finger pressing up and down on the foot treadle, That may be a neat feature when displaying the diorama.
   
We'll see,...

The end is nearing Bill. I have started the first book of three outlining the constrution of the diorama.


Title: Re: Textile Mill Diorama
Post by: b.lindsey on November 28, 2018, 10:33:49 PM
Other than the drill press and wood lathe, pmr unfortunately doesn't have any more wood machines. That band saw and planner could be interesting for them to consider as well as the jointer. 

Bill
Title: Re: Textile Mill Diorama
Post by: J.L. on November 29, 2018, 02:01:32 AM
I agree Bill. I have written PMR on several occasions with thoughts of new products.
Title: Re: Textile Mill Diorama
Post by: gbritnell on November 29, 2018, 02:02:01 PM
Hi John,
Your woodworking skills are an equal to your metalworking. Beautiful pieces!
gbritnell
Title: Re: Textile Mill Diorama
Post by: J.L. on November 29, 2018, 09:08:24 PM
Thank you for your kind words. I've  had a great run with cardmdoelling as well, but I think I'm enjoying the metalwork just as much.

The shifting mechanism was quite tricky to make and assemble. A steel dowel pin protruding from a disk moves the shifting mechanism a belt width of 1/4" from the idling pulley to the fixed one.

Title: Re: Textile Mill Diorama
Post by: ddmckee54 on November 30, 2018, 07:35:52 PM
John:

Is the blade rotation correct?  Maybe the back edge of the table is raised instead of the front?  That way the wood is pushed uphill into the blade and not downhill?

Either way, I'm sure back in the days when this mill would have been running these guys appreciated not having to rip a 10' long piece of seasoned oak that's 2" thick using a hand saw.

Don
Title: Re: Textile Mill Diorama
Post by: JC54 on November 30, 2018, 10:23:39 PM
 Hi John,
      This may be one of my usual stupid questions but I have noticed on several pics of lineshafts that there seems to be a ring type piece on them. It doesn't appear to be connected to anything but I presume it is there for a reason? :noidea: :old:     JC
Title: Re: Textile Mill Diorama
Post by: crueby on November 30, 2018, 10:31:31 PM
Hi John,
      This may be one of my usual stupid questions but I have noticed on several pics of lineshafts that there seems to be a ring type piece on them. It doesn't appear to be connected to anything but I presume it is there for a reason? :noidea: :old:     JC
I have been told they were to knock of dust and fibers as they bounce around on the shaft, don't know if that is true.  John will know for sure...
 :shrug:
Title: Re: Textile Mill Diorama
Post by: b.lindsey on December 01, 2018, 12:31:46 AM
Not unlike wat we did as kids, putting a leather ring around the hub of bicycle wheels to keep them clean and shiny. Anyone else remember that ??

Bill
Title: Re: Textile Mill Diorama
Post by: derekwarner on December 01, 2018, 05:18:23 AM
60 year ago?.... :old: leather rings for the bicycle hubs?....

Yes ...get a sheet of leather about 1/8" thick ..cut a strip about 5/8" wide &  8" long [= circumference]  & we cut a diamond slot in one end,  then a sort of 1/2 tail on the other to twist & lock into the diamond hole opening, wrap around the wheel hub,.......no metal clips or clamps ....just a few drops of oil on the hub which would be adsorbed into the leather ring....

Don't they have them any more?

Derek
Title: Re: Textile Mill Diorama
Post by: J.L. on December 01, 2018, 12:41:11 PM
Bill and Derek, I sure do remember the leather loops around the bicycle hubs.

Here's one for you. Do you remember the 'clackers' we put on the back wheels? A playing card was clamped to the frame out far enough to come in contact with the spokes with a spring style clothes pin. Very cool.

Are we showing our age?

Hi Don. The pivot point for the table is at the back of the frame as you will see when the table is put in place. The elevating screw is at the front. Rather scary. You would be pushing the work downhill into the blade.  Of course there would be no saw guard.
Title: Re: Textile Mill Diorama
Post by: steamer on December 01, 2018, 12:49:43 PM
Bill and Derek, I sure do remember the leather loops around the bicycle hubs.

Here's one for you. Do you remember the 'clackers' we put on the back wheels? A playing card was clamped to the frame out far enough to come in contact with the spokes with a spring style clothes pin. Very cool.

Are we showing our age?

Hi Don. The pivot point for the table is at the back of the frame as you will see when the table is put in place. The elevating screw is at the front. Rather scary. You would be pushing the work downhill into the blade.  Of course there would be no saw guard.

You guys mean the Sturmy Archer hubs that the shifter would rust up and lock on ya....Yes we're showing our age....
Title: Re: Textile Mill Diorama
Post by: ShopShoe on December 01, 2018, 01:39:19 PM


"Here's one for you. Do you remember the 'clackers' we put on the back wheels? A playing card was clamped to the frame out far enough to come in contact with the spokes with a spring style clothes pin. Very cool."

I told one of my grandsons about this and he did it last summer. For about a week there were three or four bikes in our neighborhood equipped with that accessory.

I am not sure we're talking about the same Sturmey-Archer hub. I had a genuine 1950s English bicycle when I was in grade school (with trashed nuts and bolts because no one told me about the Whitworth standard.) I had the three-speed Sturmey-Archer hub and I was constantly trying to adjust or damaging the little chain that ran inside to shift the gears. At Coast-to-Coast Hardware, they had a little bin in the bicycle section where they kept them, but they were always out of stock. I fixed at least one with a little wire brad holding a broken link together.

Of course, all us bicycle riders had to know how to use the "Monkey Grip" tire patching kit. and the guy at the corner gas station refused to inflate my high-pressure tires to 50psi, because "That will explode on you: All the Schwinns use 25psi."

Another visit to Memory Lane,

ShopShoe
Title: Re: Textile Mill Diorama
Post by: b.lindsey on December 01, 2018, 02:29:05 PM
Oh yeah, we did the playing card thing too but then one year technology took over and Matel or one of the toy makers came out with an attachment called "Vroommm" or something like that, same result just electronic and battery powered. Fun to remember such things but yes....we ain't getting any younger for sure.

Bill
Title: Re: Textile Mill Diorama
Post by: J.L. on December 01, 2018, 02:53:50 PM
Good memories fellows.

My green Hermes bike never heard of shifing gears!

I am old.

John
Title: Re: Textile Mill Diorama
Post by: Tin Falcon on December 01, 2018, 02:57:38 PM
Quote
Another visit to Memory Lane,

Yes indeed I too had one of those British import bike with the sturmey archer hub.
I do not recall having issues with the shifting but did no leave the bike outside.
Nor do i remember the fasteners  being withworth standard. That could be due to the fact that my wrench set was a crescent wrench.
and I also remember the the garage balking at tire pressure. Some comment about only truck tires taking that much air.

All my bikes were used in my younger years . Most of my bikes were hand my downs from my dad. He knew nothing about bicycle fit and usually bought bike too big for him .  And hence a little bit big for me as well. The one bike that was purchased for me was a 20" sting ray with a banana seat. Used from a flea market  my older brother stripped it down and painted the frame metal flake purple .That was my ride to school for the following school year, as the rules changed and i was now too close to school to take the bus.The following year a new school was opened and back on the bus.   My one and only bike I purchased new, was after I was married purchased a mid grade mountain bike from the Dover AFB Exchange.

There have been a few times in life when I had to commute by bicycle.
 
Title: Re: Textile Mill Diorama
Post by: J.L. on December 01, 2018, 04:30:02 PM
Moving from bike memories to line shaft hangers, we can see a hanger percariously hanging from the line shaft. I believe the line shafts would go into place in the factories well before the machinery was brought onto the floor.

That's what is happening here. The saw's placement will be determned by its drive pulley above.
Title: Re: Textile Mill Diorama
Post by: b.lindsey on December 01, 2018, 04:37:27 PM
I see the makings of the wood lathe too in that picture John.  :)

Bill
Title: Re: Textile Mill Diorama
Post by: J.L. on December 02, 2018, 03:04:36 PM
Right you are Bill. The last set of castings in the diorama.

Here we see the workshop beamwork. These two cross ties carry the line shaft hangers and light lumber for the lighting.
Title: Re: Textile Mill Diorama
Post by: wagnmkr on December 02, 2018, 04:07:23 PM
Wonderful job John :pinkelephant: It just keeps getting better!

Cheers

Tom
Title: Re: Textile Mill Diorama
Post by: J.L. on December 04, 2018, 02:34:24 PM
Thanks Tom,
Here's another case of having to do A, before B so that you can do C which is determine the length of the drive belt for the saw.

A: the lineshaft and drive pulley in place
B: The saw mounted on the floor

Sorry for the first two photos being out of focus. I don't often use 'AUTO' on the camera but the model was in an awkward position for the use of a tripod.
Title: Re: Textile Mill Diorama
Post by: J.L. on December 04, 2018, 02:37:38 PM
If you stop and think about it, the saw bade will be turning clockwise away from the operator. Think of the rotation of the crankshaft in the engine room.  :-\

So it will be interesting to see if the shifting mechanism designed by PMR will be robust enough to shift a twisted belt.  :???:

Title: Re: Textile Mill Diorama
Post by: ddmckee54 on December 04, 2018, 07:20:48 PM
John:

Not sure if my eye's are playing tricks on me or not, but if you look at IMG_33 in Reply #833 and IMG_05 in Reply #857, it looks like you've moved the saw blade from one side of the frame to the other.  In IMG_33 the saw blade is on the side of the frame with the lettering and in IMG_05 there doesn't appear to be any lettering behind the blade.  This would effectively reverse the rotation of the blade wouldn't it? 

You don't want the blade to be turning away from the operator, that allow the blade to grab onto the material and launch it across the shop.  Every circular saw that I have ever seen, has had the blade rotation set up to pull the material tight to the base/table, not push it away.

Don
Title: Re: Textile Mill Diorama
Post by: J.L. on December 04, 2018, 08:10:30 PM
Hi Don,
Very observant. Yes, I knew the blade was on the wrong side. I must have slipped that arbour in and out about a dozen times while testing the tension on the saw belt. Sometimes the blade was on the right; sometimes on the left. It didn't matter at that point. The focus was on belt tension.

But changing the arbour arounnd would not change the rotation.  You are also right about having the blade rotate into the cut not launching the work across the room.

That's why there is a LH thread on the arbor and the flange nut. As the arbor spins, technically the nut is tightening itself against the blade's flange .

Cheers...John
Title: Re: Textile Mill Diorama
Post by: J.L. on December 05, 2018, 05:13:55 PM
 :)
I am so pleased with how the belt is operating the saw. It took very little adjustment with belt tension in the engine room to take the load.

Now a shifter has to be fashioned to slide the belt from the idler to the drive pulley.

It would be interesting to test the saw's revolutions per minute  with a hand held device aimed at the blade.

Twisting the belt was not a problem. If I were standing in front of the saw, the belt being turned 90 degrees and appearing thinner would not be a bad thing.
Title: Re: Textile Mill Diorama
Post by: ddmckee54 on December 06, 2018, 06:25:46 PM
John:

I'm having a real hard time wrapping my head around this.  I've got the picture of the machine in my head but the way I'm seeing it, at least in the full scale working world, you shouldn't use the same arbor on both sides of the saw.

You said this is a LH thread, which makes sense when you assume several things; the saw blade is on the side of the frame with the lettering, the end of the table with the adjusting screw is the feed end, and the top of the arbor is turning toward the adjusting screw, CW.  This will make the blade attempt to tighten the nut when it bites into the wood.

Now if you turn the arbor around, still assuming that the adjusting screw is the feed end, the belt is still going to be going the same direction, from the blade's perspective won't the rotation be CCW instead of CW?  With a LH thread on the arbor won't the forces on the blade be trying to loosen the nut instead of tighten it?

I realize that this is "JUST" a model and will never see any of the forces of the real saw, but still it would seem to me that the arbor should have a LH thread on one side of the machine and a RH thread on the other.

Don
Title: Re: Textile Mill Diorama
Post by: J.L. on December 06, 2018, 09:27:30 PM
Hi Don,

Thanks for coming back to me with your confusion. I apologize. I have custom built this saw. I am right handed and always have had the fence and the cross cut mitre on the left. So, without thinking, I have set the arbor with the blade on the right hand side of the table.

I've operated table saws for some time and always would want to put the push stick in my right hand and safely slide the work past the blade with the work being guided by the fence on the left,

Your post made me go back and have a close look at the drawings again. Yes, they have the mitre and the fence on the right with the blade on the left.

I'm reather glad my own preferences kicked in.

Thanks for sticking with me on this one.


Title: Re: Textile Mill Diorama
Post by: Larry Sw on December 06, 2018, 10:00:00 PM
I worked in the Cabinet/Furniture making Trade for over 20 years before getting into
Computer Drafting and Design.  The Fence is always mounted to the right of the blade
unless you need it on the other side for blade tilt reasons.
Just look at a table saw with the extension table for sawing up sheet goods.
It's always to the right of the fence.

Larry S
Title: Re: Textile Mill Diorama
Post by: J.L. on December 06, 2018, 10:07:55 PM
Hi Larry,

Exactly," The Fence is always mounted to the right of the blade unless you need it on the other side for blade tilt reasons"

That's why my fence is always o the left side of the blade.

John
Title: Re: Textile Mill Diorama
Post by: J.L. on December 07, 2018, 01:25:15 PM
I'm sure many have been sitting in the bushes waiting for me to discover the error of my ways with this saw. It's hard to teach an old dog new tricks.

These two photos of my trusty old Rockwell/Beaver right hand tilting table saw with its left extension has influenced my thinking with the model saw..

I never used the saw to crosscut with a fence in place, I use the mitre and want the cut -offs on my right, When I do rip or angle rip,( because the saw tips to the right), i've  always grabbed the fence and slid it onto the left side of the rails, I'm sure we will all agree, it is not a safe practice to tip a saw into a fence. So I just got into the habit of sliding the fence on the left side of the blade whether the blade was tipped or not.

Alas, this saw is not set up that way. Also, because there is a belt in the centre of the arbour under the table, the blade is not centered on the table,

I've messed up. However, I think I can reverse everything. The only problem will be the location of the drive pulley up on the lineshaft. I don't want to move the location of the saw and hope there is enough room to move the line shaft hanger to the front of the beam.

Back to the drawing board...

John
Title: Re: Textile Mill Diorama
Post by: ddmckee54 on December 07, 2018, 04:48:17 PM
I've messed up. However, I think I can reverse everything.
That's OK, you're entitled - once in a while.

You were probably thinking about how we do this now with modern equipment.  Not how they had to do it back in the day, with what they had.

Don
Title: Re: Textile Mill Diorama
Post by: derekwarner on December 07, 2018, 07:06:08 PM
Could you always consider the saw was set up :Doh:  for a left handed sawer? ....... Derek
Title: Back 'On Line'
Post by: J.L. on December 07, 2018, 07:36:49 PM
Well, it seems Johhny has seen the error of his ways with this kit.

The bade has been mounted on the left, and the fence will be to its right. 

I was almost prepared to bull ahead stubbornly and go with what I had, but one look at the underside of the saw table showed me the casting was shaped with a recess for the saw blade on the left and the belt pulley, The table mounting trunnion are on the right.

I guess the old addage applies: "If all else fails, read the instructions."

Now for that saw table...

P.S. The saw table is also specifically cast for the location of the two grooves on each side of the saw opening . If you don't get the location of those grooves correct, the 1/16" groove depth will cut right through the table.
Title: Re: Textile Mill Diorama
Post by: Larry Sw on December 07, 2018, 09:06:46 PM
I've worked on some pretty old machines back in the day.  Babbit bearings and all.
But never on any table saw design quite that early.  1920's was probably the earliest.
A 16" Sliding Table Tannewitz was a very accurate saw if you wore ear muffs to cut
the blade whistle. It was loud. The carbide teeth were about 3/16" thick    :Lol: 
It was a very good compound miter machine with a large
miter gage and accurate engraved degree markings on the sliding table.  Very good
for accurate compound miter cuts.
That design doesn't seem to take cutting sheet goods into account with the overhead
drive belts in the way long cuts.  BTW  never worked in an actual lineshaft shop.
Just on lineshaft machines converted to electric motor drive.  Like Chain Mortisers and Single
End Tenoner, 8" Jointer etc.  Babbit bearings.

Larry S
Title: Re: Textile Mill Diorama
Post by: J.L. on December 07, 2018, 09:20:40 PM
Hi Larry,
Thanks for sharing that informative information. Yes, the advent of motors mush have been emancipating for the use and placement of equipment on the floor of the shop,
Otherwise there were many restrictions as you have mentioned.

Here is a shot showng what I was talking about with the underside of the saw table.

The photos show that the belt just clears the right side of the table.
Title: Re: Textile Mill Diorama
Post by: J.L. on December 09, 2018, 01:59:58 AM
The finished table mounted on its trunnions with the saw opening machined.

Title: Re: Textile Mill Diorama
Post by: 10KPete on December 09, 2018, 03:38:10 AM
 :cartwheel:
 :popcorn: :ThumbsUp:

Pete
Title: Re: Textile Mill Diorama
Post by: steamer on December 09, 2018, 11:25:50 AM
I've worked on some pretty old machines back in the day.  Babbit bearings and all.
But never on any table saw design quite that early.  1920's was probably the earliest.
A 16" Sliding Table Tannewitz was a very accurate saw if you wore ear muffs to cut
the blade whistle. It was loud. The carbide teeth were about 3/16" thick    :Lol: 
It was a very good compound miter machine with a large
miter gage and accurate engraved degree markings on the sliding table.  Very good
for accurate compound miter cuts.
That design doesn't seem to take cutting sheet goods into account with the overhead
drive belts in the way long cuts.  BTW  never worked in an actual lineshaft shop.
Just on lineshaft machines converted to electric motor drive.  Like Chain Mortisers and Single
End Tenoner, 8" Jointer etc.  Babbit bearings.

Larry S

True, but I don't know how much in the way of sheet goods existed when shops were still "Line shaft"    Long pieces for sure!   But 4 x 8 sheets of plywood.....hmmmm

Dave
Title: Re: Textile Mill Diorama
Post by: b.lindsey on December 09, 2018, 01:12:49 PM
Interesting point...according to Wikipedia Ö " In 1928, the first standard-sized 4 ft by 8 ft (1.2 m by 2.4 m) plywood sheets were introduced in the United States for use as a general building material."

Earlier development and patents go back as far as 1797 but not production in any large scale it seems.

Bill
Title: Re: Textile Mill Diorama
Post by: J.L. on December 09, 2018, 01:32:28 PM
Good points gentlemen.

We will assume that in this textile mill, the focus would have been on producing  square , say,  2" x 2" or 3" x 3" material for crosscutting into say 10" to 12" lengths for the lathes.. Larger and longer pieces would have been ripped for stays and crossties to be used to bolt the cast iron frames of textle machinery together. The  saw was strictly focused on the needs of the mill.

At that time, I don't think they even had thoughts of machinery that would rotate a log and slice off thin sheets to be laminating into plywood. As Bill mentioned that would be about 30 years after this mill's  functioning.

This saw table is basically only 1/16" thick in places. But the mitre grooves are 1/16" deep. So if you look at the first photo, you will see that they have cast.ribs down the table 1/8" deep to allow for the grooves, Also, the mandrel pulley belt almost touches the bottom of the table, so that's why you see the recessed 1/16" section.


Title: Re: Textile Mill Diorama
Post by: J.L. on December 09, 2018, 10:32:09 PM
The mitre and the fence complete this interesting table saw.  :)

Title: Re: Textile Mill Diorama
Post by: b.lindsey on December 09, 2018, 10:47:44 PM
Very nice John. Now on to the lathe I assume  :)

Bill
Title: Re: Textile Mill Diorama
Post by: J.L. on December 10, 2018, 02:13:14 AM
Hi Bill,

Yes, the foot operated treadle lathe is the last machine . We will assume it to be little more than scrap as many of its parts have been scavaged and used on the other lathes on the floor that are now hooked up to the line shafts. So this stripped antique sits in the corner.

Not a bad scenario, since this is actually one of the most difficult of the PMR machines to make. I can take liberties and simply not make some of the more difficult pieces.

It will be a little bit of eye candy religated to the back corner of the shop.


Title: Re: Textile Mill Diorama
Post by: crueby on December 10, 2018, 02:38:26 AM
Have it in pieces on the shop bench with some wrenches at nuts/bolts?
Title: Re: Textile Mill Diorama
Post by: wagnmkr on December 10, 2018, 11:59:58 AM
Just about there John. Another amazing journey.

Cheers

Tom
Title: Re: Textile Mill Diorama
Post by: J.L. on December 10, 2018, 01:06:05 PM
Hi Chris,
Good idea, but they would have probably taken the parts into the machine room and used the metal desk. The carpenters had a tendency to be very fussy about their wooden work surfaces,  :D

Hi Tom,

Yes the end is in sight. Thanks.

Here is a shot of the saw looking through the window from the engine room and two shots of the saw in the wood shop.
Title: A Bit of Whimsy
Post by: J.L. on December 10, 2018, 07:27:56 PM
In the last two dioramas, I have put a little bit of humour for the observant.

On this one, the scrap box beside the saw has a label that reads:

HOMER'S GINGER AND BRANDY COMPOUND FOR CRAMPS AND FLATULENCY"

In the third photo, the box at the top of the stairs in the Stuart Beam Engine diorama reads:

"EMBALMING FLUID". 

There actually is a bottle of that stuff on one of the shelves at the back of the engine room.  :Lol:
Title: Re: Textile Mill Diorama
Post by: Dave Otto on December 10, 2018, 07:45:43 PM
 :Lol:

The table saw turned out real nice John.


Dave
Title: Re: Textile Mill Diorama
Post by: crueby on December 10, 2018, 07:46:04 PM
 :lolb: :lolb: :lolb:
Is the embalming fluid the Jack Daniels brand?   :LittleDevil:
Title: Re: Textile Mill Diorama
Post by: J.L. on December 10, 2018, 10:07:47 PM
Hi Chris,

I went looking for that bottle of formaldehyde (Jack Daniels would have been a nicer way to go).

It wasn't in the second diorama at all!

It was sitting on a shelf in the Foreman's Office!

I guess he had a plan if the work load became too much....

Cheers...John




Title: Re: Textile Mill Diorama
Post by: b.lindsey on December 10, 2018, 10:36:43 PM
I like the way the foreman thinks  :wine1:

Bill
Title: Re: Textile Mill Diorama
Post by: zeeprogrammer on December 10, 2018, 10:54:31 PM
 :lolb:

This is good stuff.  :ThumbsUp:
Title: Re: Textile Mill Diorama
Post by: J.L. on December 12, 2018, 08:30:34 PM
 :)

Now for the disassembled and cannibalized wood lathe collecting cobwebs in the corner. They must be keeping it for sentimantal value.

I've had a running discussion on this site and with PMR regarding the use of phillister headed slot screws vs bolts. You can compare their appearance in these photos.
I think practically they would have used bolts. To my mind, bolts give more purchase and torque capabilities that screwdriver drive screws.

I'm sure the fellows had a wrench in the back pocket far more than a screwdriver.

But I can see why PMR is staying with the slot headed bolts. All the drawings feature them. What a job it would be to redraw the diagrams. Boggles the mind.

I like using the hex headed bolts where possible.
Title: Re: Textile Mill Diorama
Post by: 10KPete on December 12, 2018, 09:33:25 PM
No contest! Hex or square heads are correct, certainly NOT slotted screws!

Excellent work!

Pete
Title: Re: Textile Mill Diorama
Post by: ddmckee54 on December 12, 2018, 10:37:15 PM
For this time period the bolts should be square headed shouldn't they?  I don't know when square headed bolts fell out of favor, probably about the time of WWII or right before?

I've got the parts my great-uncle had to forge for his "Engineering Ironworks" exam at Iowa State College in 1920.  The nut and bolt that he had to forge and thread were square headed.  If hex head bolts were more common you'd think he'd have had to forge that format.  The center punch that he had to forge and heat treat was hex shaped.  He also had to forge a lifting hook, in today's world it would probably be rated at about a 500 lb. capacity - not that I'm going to ever test it.

Don
Title: Re: Textile Mill Diorama
Post by: Ye-Ole Steam Dude on December 12, 2018, 11:23:43 PM
Hello JL,

Your attention to detail is unbelievable......a Jug of Shine would also look good....but maybe not in that shop.

Have a great day,
Thomas
Title: Re: Textile Mill Diorama
Post by: J.L. on December 13, 2018, 01:12:46 AM
Thanks fellows.

Don, I know that the square head was and still is common on lag screws, but I was not aware that all machine bolts were square headed. I know the nuts were square, so I guess that means the heads were also square.

Thanks.

John
Title: Re: Textile Mill Diorama
Post by: b.lindsey on December 13, 2018, 01:17:40 AM
I agree John and have quite a collection of these screws provided in PMR kits that have never been used. I guess they assume each builder can substitute to their own preference.

Bill
Title: Re: Textile Mill Diorama
Post by: crueby on December 13, 2018, 01:21:25 AM
I did notice on the Marion shovel near here (made in 1906) used hex head bolts/hex nuts almost everywhere, there were a few square ones but not many. These were all fastening steel parts. Tried searching to find when the hex ones got common, but the stories vary all over the map and into a few other dimensions!
Title: Re: Textile Mill Diorama
Post by: deltatango on December 13, 2018, 03:24:06 AM
This a bit off-topic but I. K. Brunel, as usual, thought different. These bolts are on the Clifton suspension bridge in Bristol, built between 1831 and 1864. many of the other bolt heads on the bridge are hexagonal (maybe replacements over time), I didn't see any square ones.

David
Title: Re: Textile Mill Diorama
Post by: J.L. on December 13, 2018, 02:18:27 PM
Interesting discussion gentlemen.

Don, perhaps hand forging the square headed bolt was the goal for the test. I know that hot and cold rolled steel as well as drop forging was well under way at the turn of the century. I agaree with the fellows that find the hex headed bolts in wide use at that time.

Here is a quick look at the wood lathe being roughly set up. I am flying rather fast and loose with this kit, as much of it will not be made. Some parts will be simply be glued together!

I do like the desisgn of the large flywheel with its serpentine spokes.
Title: Re: Textile Mill Diorama
Post by: Ye-Ole Steam Dude on December 13, 2018, 02:41:37 PM
Hello JL,

Attached are two photos of a large Old Belt Driven Drill Press that are in my friend's shop and still in use today. Mr. Pete (the father) purchased this back in the early 50's from a old shop in Beaumont, Texas that was going out of business. As you can see, he adapted an electric motor to it and the only repair has been a recent shorting of the belt completed by his son who is now running the shop.

Have a great day,
Thomas
Title: Re: Textile Mill Diorama
Post by: J.L. on December 13, 2018, 03:35:31 PM
Thank you Thomas for these two historically significant photographs of early belt driven machinery. It's nice to see this drill press still in use driven by an electric motor.

Speaking of historical issues, I have been using PMR socket headed grub screws on scale models of machines that were in producction well before the turn of the century. Actually the hex headed socket didn't come into production until about 1910.

I atone here with a hex headed bolt on the lathe's crank. I'm not sure, but maybe this is where the slot headed grub screw was in use. It would certaiinly clear the boss's surface when tightened than a hex headed bolt sticking out.

In this situation, the bolt head runs free and clear at the end of a shaft.
Title: Re: Textile Mill Diorama
Post by: ddmckee54 on December 13, 2018, 07:54:13 PM
ON all of the old stuff that I have seen and/or torn apart that had grub screws, the screw was one of two flavors.  If the grub screw was 1/4" - 3/8" diameter or less, then the screw was slotted.  The stuff that was larger than this the screw had a square head, usually with the flats as large the diameter of the screw would allow.  Look at pictures of the pulleys on old line shafts and you'll see what I mean.

Don
Title: Re: Textile Mill Diorama
Post by: J.L. on December 13, 2018, 09:11:42 PM
Thanks Don.

Makes perfect sense to me.

Mind you, I'm not going back through all the dioramas and change every grub screw.

You would think PMR would have done some basic research before opting for socket headed grub screws.  But it may have been a case of availabiliy and the torque value of a socket head. As Bill said, the builder has the option of what type to use.

John
Title: Re: Textile Mill Diorama
Post by: Admiral_dk on December 13, 2018, 09:30:02 PM
Quote
Mind you, I'm not going back through all the dioramas and change every grub screw.

Ow - come on  ;)

OK, joke aside, you're still doing great and I continue to enjoy the project as it progresses  :praise2:    :cheers:

 :popcorn:
Title: Re: Textile Mill Diorama
Post by: J.L. on December 13, 2018, 10:22:02 PM
Much appreciated.

I have attempted to make all three legs of the lathe level with what will be the ways.

I am going to really cut down the work on this wood lathe, Some will have noticed the wooden box under the lathe. That's where the unused parts will go. We will asume that other parts have been stripped from this lathe and used on the other set of lathes in the larger portion of the wood shop.

This is a very tricky little kit. A lot of precise machining of very small parts would be needed to bring out its charm and accurate functioning.

Marv, you built this machine - right?

Do you agree?

John
Title: Re: Textile Mill Diorama
Post by: mklotz on December 14, 2018, 06:18:46 PM
Yes, John, I built it and, yes, there are some tricky bits.

(https://www.use.com/images/s_2/143ee8efa76a743c3a45_51.jpg) (https://www.use.com/143ee8efa76a743c3a45?p=51)
(https://www.use.com/images/clicklarge3.gif) (https://www.use.com/143ee8efa76a743c3a45?p=51)

I tried to fix it so it could be turned by using the treadle pedal but never got that to work.  The flywheel, being aluminum, has a very small moment of inertia.  I added a hidden steel band inside the flywheel to increase the moment but even that was not enough to overcome the friction of the belt.

I wanted to mount a turning on centers and decided, for authenticity, it needed a four-blade live center as used on full-size wood lathes.  Milling that into a miniscule taper pin would have to be done "with the dials" since my eyesight wasn't  good enough to do it by sight.  I decided to test out my milling plan computations in brass first and the result is shown below.

(https://www.use.com/images/s_2/143ee8efa76a743c3a45_27.jpg) (https://www.use.com/143ee8efa76a743c3a45?p=27)
(https://www.use.com/images/clicklarge3.gif) (https://www.use.com/143ee8efa76a743c3a45?p=27)

The live center came out perfectly and made it a bit easier to bear the fact that I couldn't get the treadle to work properly.

Oh, and like you, I replaced all the slotted screws with proper hex heads.



Title: Re: Textile Mill Diorama
Post by: J.L. on December 14, 2018, 06:45:54 PM
Marv.,
Thanks for responding. Your machine is absolutely perfect.

Mine will be a stripped down version partially covered with a tarp! And so it should be compared to this masterpiece of yours.

Marv, your lathe should be mounted on a walnut base and proudly displayed on the mantlepiece!  :ThumbsUp:
Title: Re: Textile Mill Diorama
Post by: RJ on December 15, 2018, 02:25:00 AM
Heads up JL - I got this far. I'll spend some time now learning how to navigate around.
Title: Re: Textile Mill Diorama
Post by: J.L. on December 15, 2018, 04:04:25 PM
Welcome to the site RJ.

The banjo is seen here in photos one and two; the tool rest mounted in three and four.
Title: Re: Textile Mill Diorama
Post by: J.L. on December 15, 2018, 07:53:38 PM
Kudos to PMR for casting a chucking boss to the end of the tailstock.  :praise2:

Title: Re: Textile Mill Diorama
Post by: Roger B on December 15, 2018, 08:01:23 PM
Still following along and enjoying  :praise2:  :praise2: Your and Marv's miniature  machine tools are splendid  :ThumbsUp:  :ThumbsUp:
Title: Re: Textile Mill Diorama
Post by: J.L. on December 15, 2018, 09:07:26 PM
Thank you Roger.

Marv, I have a question for you. At the back of the tailstock barrel there is a little section that is threaded #8-32. Now how to thread that little portion with a die is beyond me. The bottom back edge of the tailstock is in line with the back of the barrel.

I think I will just be taking a three-corner file and representing some threads there. Just cosmetic.

This is not critical as I am not going to insert a quill or fashion the back of its mechanism. All that gear was carried off by workers some time ago to use on a refurbished lathe furthur out on the floor of the shop.  ;)

But I'm curious.

Cheers...John

Title: Re: Textile Mill Diorama
Post by: mklotz on December 15, 2018, 11:16:41 PM
It's been a long time, John, but I think I improvised a small cylindrical die.  Basically, I drilled and threaded a piece of steel 8-32 then filed some longitudinal grooves into the threads to create some admittedly crude cutting edges.  It only needed to work once and in soft aluminum at that.

The photo shows the disassembled tailstock with the thread.  Lying below it is the barrel; if you look really closely you can see the longitudinal slot that interfaces with the barrel lock lever.  It's threaded 0-80 to accept the drive screw visible in the end cap lying to the left of the tailstock.  I cheated a bit here too.  I wasn't going to search for and buy a 0-80 left hand tap and screw to make the crank operate correctly.  The barrel moves in and out as you operate the crank but you have to turn it in the opposite to normal direction.

(https://www.use.com/images/s_2/143ee8efa76a743c3a45_53.jpg) (https://www.use.com/143ee8efa76a743c3a45?p=53)
(https://www.use.com/images/clicklarge3.gif) (https://www.use.com/143ee8efa76a743c3a45?p=53)

While I had the camera out, I took a photo of the four prong live center I mentioned earlier for my own records.  I'm throwing it in here to prove that it really exists.

(https://www.use.com/images/s_2/143ee8efa76a743c3a45_54.jpg) (https://www.use.com/143ee8efa76a743c3a45?p=54)
(https://www.use.com/images/clicklarge3.gif) (https://www.use.com/143ee8efa76a743c3a45?p=54)

Title: Re: Textile Mill Diorama
Post by: AOG on December 16, 2018, 01:12:35 AM
I am impressed at the scale you guys are working in. Some of the parts for Elmerís engines drove me crazy in terms of work holding and threading. I couldnít see half the parts you are talking about much less actually make them.

Tony
Title: Re: Textile Mill Diorama
Post by: J.L. on December 16, 2018, 01:44:15 AM
Hi Tony,
Yes, #0-80 and #1-72 threads are the norm with some of these machines.

Thanks you Marv for your detailed description of the threading and you photos.

You know Marv, I've decided to change the design a bit and assume the threads for the back of the barrel to be internal.. That means I get a clean casting right to the end of the tailstock casting. That's how my General 160 was designed.

Thanks again,
John
Title: Re: Textile Mill Diorama
Post by: 10KPete on December 16, 2018, 02:00:03 AM
 :ThumbsUp:

You're building your own world there, John! Make it any way you want!

 :ThumbsUp: :ThumbsUp: :popcorn:

Pete
Title: Re: Textile Mill Diorama
Post by: mklotz on December 16, 2018, 03:08:55 PM
I am impressed at the scale you guys are working in. Some of the parts for Elmerís engines drove me crazy in terms of work holding and threading. I couldnít see half the parts you are talking about much less actually make them.

With metalworking machines it's not absolutely necessary to see the part in order to make it.  That's what I was getting at when I wrote about the test piece I made for the four-blade live center for the lathe.

I couldn't actually see how the work was progressing while I was making it.  I had to simply trust the computations I had made earlier and make the cuts they demanded.  Only after completing it and removing it from its holder could I inspect it under magnification and see that it matched what I had intended.  Think of it like setting up a job on a CNC machine and then walking away while the computer directs the machine to make the part.  Except here you are the computer driving the machine.  I call it "HAM", Human Assisted Machining.

All the work on this lathe (and all the other PMR machine models) was done on a full-size, round column ENCO mill-drill and a 9 x 40 lathe.  Watch-making scale equipment might have made the work easier but they certainly aren't mandatory.  OTOH, part-holding jig making is absolutely necessary.
Title: Tailstock
Post by: J.L. on December 16, 2018, 08:09:36 PM
The talistock has been redesigned a big.
Here it is sitting on the old tried and true General 160.
Title: Re: Textile Mill Diorama
Post by: crueby on December 16, 2018, 08:13:26 PM
Very nicely done!
You ever have a dream where you get shrunk down and start working in one of the shop dioramas you made?
Title: The Woodworking Lathe
Post by: J.L. on December 16, 2018, 08:17:28 PM
Here are two shots of the completed lathe accompanied by a cherry goblet that was turned in 2004.

Of all the machinery in a woodworking shop, the wood lathe is perhaps the only one that can take a piece of wood and work up a product from start to finish. It can also produce some of the most beautiful and creative pieces of wood turning.

But back here in our textile mill, their use was very functional. The machinery upstairs dictated the necessary items.

Title: Re: Textile Mill Diorama
Post by: J.L. on December 16, 2018, 08:30:18 PM
Hi Chris,

Yes, I've mentioned before how interesting it would be to drink the contents of the potion in the bottle Alice found in Lewis Carroll's novel.
 
Seriously Chris, I've had people be completely fooled by some of the photographs I've taken of the diorama's over the years. I've been able to capture some of them in the books I've one-off published.

I like your thinking.

John

Title: To Date
Post by: J.L. on December 17, 2018, 12:26:04 PM
Here is a workshop to date.

I noticed that there is no place to set anything down at this end of the shop other than  set things on the workbench. An oil stain from an oiler would not be appreciated there and there is no place to store the odd item. Mind you, we are only looking at small portion of the south end of the shop -  but still there should be some place to set something down safely or store things.

Do you see a table under the shelf?

Today's work.

Title: Re: Textile Mill Diorama
Post by: Larry Sw on December 17, 2018, 03:13:04 PM
What ?????   No Tool box ?
 :smokin2:

Larry
Title: Re: Textile Mill Diorama
Post by: J.L. on December 17, 2018, 03:16:12 PM
Wait for it Larry.  ;)
Actually there is a tool caddy under the workbench...
Title: Lighting
Post by: J.L. on December 17, 2018, 08:58:36 PM
Well, the little bench will have to wait until I get some angle stock to make it.

So here goes with the lighting.

These lovely little industrial light shades do not come with any means of attachement. So a litttle bit of epoxy and an extended junction box does the job.
Title: Re: Textile Mill Diorama
Post by: b.lindsey on December 18, 2018, 01:37:57 AM
It's all looking wonderful John. The lathe looks good sitting there too.

Bill
Title: Re: Textile Mill Diorama
Post by: Larry Sw on December 18, 2018, 02:56:15 PM
(https://i266.photobucket.com/albums/ii259/Larry_Swearingen/My%20Bench_zpswiirn0hr.jpg)]
This is my bench.   I made it in 1980.  Solid Cherry top and Maple under structure.
I worked on it 6 days a week for the first 10 years repairing Antique furniture and making reproductions.
Didn't use it much over the next 20 years since I worked in commercial  cabinet shops until I started making
bamboo fly rods.   I started using it again a lot about 2004.  It's seen a lot of metalworking starting in 2007.
I make Planing Forms for guys who make split bamboo fly rods and the Cherry bench top is pretty well soaked
in cutting oil now.    Model Steam engines too.  If you look closely you can see a Steam Dome from a PMR Horizontal
Boiler in progress on the bench.
I made the pull out Pine chest on casters underneath it too in the early days to store Routers, Sanders etc.

Larry (http://[URL=https://s266.photobucket.com/user/Larry_Swearingen/media/My%20Bench_zpswiirn0hr.jpg.html)
Title: Re: Textile Mill Diorama
Post by: J.L. on December 18, 2018, 03:33:54 PM
Hi Larry,
You've got a busy desk there indeed.
Here's the desk in the engine room of the diorama.
Title: Let There Be Light
Post by: J.L. on December 18, 2018, 10:08:50 PM
The three shop lights are in.

The last photo is very dark. I will have to experiment a lot with shutter speed and lens openings to get this right for the video,

Title: Re: Textile Mill Diorama
Post by: b.lindsey on December 18, 2018, 10:12:05 PM
I love those lights John. They always look so realistic which after all is the point.

Bill
Title: Re: Textile Mill Diorama
Post by: 10KPete on December 18, 2018, 11:37:46 PM
 :praise2:
 :ThumbsUp:
 :popcorn:

Pete
Title: The Shop Roof
Post by: J.L. on December 20, 2018, 06:03:28 PM
Thanks Gentlemen.
I agree Bill. The lights add warmth and ambiance to the scene.

The last major project with this diorama is the framed roof over the portion of the shop roof we see.

Once the ridge was set in place, each rafter could be fitted with a birdsmouth and the angles established. This is basically a 4:12 roof.

The rafters were ganged together so one pass with the mill cut all the birdsmouthes at once.


Title: Re: Textile Mill Diorama
Post by: Ye-Ole Steam Dude on December 20, 2018, 06:08:35 PM
Hello JL,

I hate to see this project come to a close...but...looking forward to your next venture.

Have a great holiday,
Thomas
Title: Re: Textile Mill Diorama
Post by: J.L. on December 20, 2018, 06:14:49 PM
And best wishes to you as well Thomas.

Yes, this has been a labour of love for some time now. It helped me over some rough health patches along the way as well.

Cheers...John
Title: Re: Textile Mill Diorama
Post by: J.L. on December 21, 2018, 09:53:31 PM
Originally, I was not planning on putting a roof on this section of shop, but I'm glad I did.

Title: Re: Textile Mill Diorama
Post by: wagnmkr on December 21, 2018, 11:11:37 PM
Sure ... I miss a few days and you finish the thing!

Well Done John. I hope to be able to get over in the new year to have a hands on.

Cheers

Happy Holidays

Tom
Title: Re: Textile Mill Diorama
Post by: J.L. on December 22, 2018, 12:16:06 AM
And all the best of the season to you as well Tom.
I will look forward to meeting you and discussing the next venture, of which, I think you have a clue..  ;)
John
Title: Re: Textile Mill Diorama
Post by: Dave Otto on December 22, 2018, 01:32:58 AM
Amazing John, the roof ads so much.
The whole diorama is just spectacular.


Dave
Title: Re: Textile Mill Diorama
Post by: Roger B on December 29, 2018, 08:14:28 AM
Wonderful  :praise2:  :praise2: I too am looking forward to the next project  :ThumbsUp:  :wine1:
Title: Re: Textile Mill Diorama
Post by: J.L. on December 30, 2018, 03:33:18 PM
Thank you Dave and Roger.
Happy New Year!

The next project is in the gestation phase right now. Until it begins in January, I am producing four one-off photo books featuring the mill.

Book One: The Boiler House
Book Two: The Engine
Book Three: The Mill
Book Four: The Workshop

I received book one last week, but realized it was a bit 'over the top' as a large hardcover book - more like a coffee table book than a series of four books. It is pictured below.

Instead, I have gone to a much smaller softcover book at a fraction of the cost. I will post a picture of them when they are published.

As a teaser, the castings for the next project will be coming from Shropshire, UK.

Cheers...John
Title: Re: Textile Mill Diorama
Post by: crueby on December 30, 2018, 05:11:07 PM
Very nice!

Where did you get the books printed?
Title: Printing
Post by: J.L. on December 30, 2018, 06:08:39 PM
Hi Chris,

The book was printed in Memphis by Mimeo Photos. They were the exclusive printers for Apple.

You still  launch the site from Apple Photos, but it is seamless. Since we all depend heavily on photos in our construction threads,  the work has already been done. The. pictures we used during the writing of the thread are still there. You just drag and drop the photos you want into a pre-formatted book layout of your choice.  There are many customizable layouts available.

You can also choose from many other printing formats;   calendars, cards, prints, slideshows, etc.

Even if you don't have an Apple, I'm sure there are many online printers out there. It's just an upload click away.

Cheers...John

Title: Re: Textile Mill Diorama
Post by: Craig DeShong on January 07, 2019, 10:16:28 PM
I'm one of the ones who have been silently following along, but your work has been constantly impressive.  Any chance we'll see it at the Cabin Fever expo ?
Title: Re: Textile Mill Diorama
Post by: wagnmkr on January 07, 2019, 10:57:12 PM

As a teaser, the castings for the next project will be coming from Shropshire, UK.

Cheers...John

And a wonderful choice it is as well John

Cheers

Tom
Title: Re: Textile Mill Diorama
Post by: J.L. on January 09, 2019, 02:12:58 PM
Thank you Craig.

Tom, I look forward to that package from England. Thanks.

Chris, here are the books I was mentioning on the other thread. They just arrived.  You will note there are four books in the series, not three.

I am very pleased with their quality. Each one came with a plastic sleeve.


Title: Re: Textile Mill Diorama
Post by: b.lindsey on January 09, 2019, 02:18:44 PM
Those are beautiful John. Having seen the pictures here on the site, I can only imagine how much better they must look in print form too.

Bill
Title: Re: Textile Mill Diorama
Post by: crueby on January 09, 2019, 02:21:46 PM
Wonderful job on the books!
Title: Re: Textile Mill Diorama
Post by: Tennessee Whiskey on January 09, 2019, 03:45:02 PM
Just wonderful John. Is there a possibility of purchasing the books; would be nice addition to the shop coffee table

Cletus
Title: Re: Textile Mill Diorama
Post by: wirralcnc on January 09, 2019, 03:48:14 PM
I would certainly purchase a copy also
Title: Re: Textile Mill Diorama
Post by: RonGinger on January 09, 2019, 09:38:34 PM
Is there a link to the book source? I want a set.

Will  you be bringing the model to Cabin fever or NAMES?
Title: Re: Textile Mill Diorama
Post by: steamer on January 09, 2019, 11:03:20 PM
Save one for me!

Dave
Title: Project books
Post by: J.L. on January 10, 2019, 10:22:00 PM
Thanks for the interest in the books fellows. Unfortunately mine are not published for public consumption. You can however choose an online printer that wll let you publish for profit.

They are produced from pictures saved on your computer's hard drive. It's a one-time thing. You upload your images and voila , you have a book.

Thanks for asking. I would encourage anyone who has spent a good deal of time posting a construction thread on our site, to consider printing a book of the build. Not only do they tell a summative story, they become special to family members down the road. You already have the images of the build stored in your computer.

John
Title: Re: Textile Mill Diorama
Post by: steamer on January 10, 2019, 10:53:20 PM
Gotta link John?

Dave
Title: Re: Textile Mill Diorama
Post by: Admiral_dk on January 11, 2019, 11:41:39 AM
John  I think they are trying to tell pled with you to have some extra printed, so they can buy them from you Ö. or if not - have some way to get access to all the pictures you have used and maybe even the link as Dave ask for that will give them access to buy the books from the printer directly.

I do understand why, as they are dam near to workshop porn  ;)