Model Engine Maker

Engines => Your Own Design => Topic started by: steam guy willy on October 19, 2017, 01:30:19 PM

Title: Freelance mill engine from Stuart castings.
Post by: steam guy willy on October 19, 2017, 01:30:19 PM
This is a new post and will be a mill type engine using the HP castings from the Stuart Triple . The engine will be designed as i go along using the engine block and a flywheel casting. The cylinders block was cut down first and then filed up by hand to get a true face on the porting part to work from.The block was then turned up to get the bore and end faces square and true.
Title: Re: Freelance mill engine from Stuart castings.
Post by: crueby on October 19, 2017, 01:54:26 PM
 :popcorn:
Title: Re: Freelance mill engine from Stuart castings.
Post by: steam guy willy on October 19, 2017, 02:28:59 PM
The steam chest is then milled and filed up and there is a protosion/bump on the end for the valve rod to enter .to get this in line with the stuffing box drilled hole, an insert of perspex is temporarily fitted to stop the drill wandering about !!  The insert is then removed and the holes drilled to attach it to the cylinder block and the top plate is attached. The ports are cast into the block but are not quite square so these will have to be sorted out next !!
Title: Re: Freelance mill engine from Stuart castings.
Post by: steam guy willy on October 20, 2017, 01:47:29 AM
The valve is made next, i have used a piece of scrap brass from a beer pump.... this is sawn out the and the transfer port milled. The buckle is filed up  and the next job is the valve spindle. The holes drilled through the parts is started off using an 1/8" drill as the end hole is i/8" to keep the spindle central . the spindle is however 5/32 " X40 TPI and the valve ,buckle and gland holes will be opend out to 5/32" next
Title: Re: Freelance mill engine from Stuart castings.
Post by: crueby on October 20, 2017, 01:58:07 AM
Willy, is it an optical delusion from the photo, or is the recess in the bottom of the valve slider too long? It looks like it will span all three ports at once.
Title: Re: Freelance mill engine from Stuart castings.
Post by: steam guy willy on October 20, 2017, 01:48:48 PM
Hi Chris , you may be right however i did use the dimensions from the drawings,  they may be wrong ? will check it out when i get home !!!  The ports are a bit wonky and they are not dimensioned on the drawing so i am assuming you leave them " as cast " ............
Title: Re: Freelance mill engine from Stuart castings.
Post by: 10KPete on October 20, 2017, 05:14:59 PM
Those ports should be machined out so the edges are square to the bore, straight, even and the two steam ports symetrically located about the exhaust. THEN you make the valve pocket to match/lap etc.

Pete
Title: Re: Freelance mill engine from Stuart castings.
Post by: Jasonb on October 20, 2017, 05:33:20 PM
Exhaust port should be 1/8" wide, 3/32" bars between and 3/32" inlets. They should all be 7/16" wide. recess in Valve should be 1/2" x 19/64" with the 1/2" in line with the 7/16" posts.

Knowing you a bit of work with a needle file will have the ports tidied up. Also poke a bit of wire down the passages as there is often core sand still in them.

J

Edited to 19/64"
Title: Re: Freelance mill engine from Stuart castings.
Post by: Jo on October 20, 2017, 05:37:55 PM
Willy turn the valve round by 90 degrees...  ::)

If you have the Triple drawings all the ports are dimensioned as is the valve.

Jo
Title: Re: Freelance mill engine from Stuart castings.
Post by: Jasonb on October 20, 2017, 06:26:05 PM
Think the recess looks a bit too square so turning round may not work :(
Title: Re: Freelance mill engine from Stuart castings.
Post by: steam guy willy on October 20, 2017, 06:34:12 PM
Thanks for these posts , and here are the original drawings......... the eccentric throws are 5/32" but set at 30 degrees ??? Jo, I thought i might have got the valve out by 90 degrees but i am a bit confused about the actually valve travel. The cavity is 1/2" which looks like the outside dimensions of the ports ? so will see what happens !!   also the Lomex exhibition poster, but i may not go as my neck is playing up...C2 toC6 joined together by plates ?!!!.....
Title: Re: Freelance mill engine from Stuart castings.
Post by: Gas_mantle on October 20, 2017, 06:37:10 PM
Hi

Another member here, sent me this PDF file when I was asking for valve info  :)
Title: Re: Freelance mill engine from Stuart castings.
Post by: Jo on October 20, 2017, 06:37:47 PM
The cavity is shown in that drawing as 1/2" by 19/64ths... so 12.7mm by 7.54mm in real money.

the 5/32" throw gives an overlap of 0.4mm

Jo
Title: Re: Freelance mill engine from Stuart castings.
Post by: Jasonb on October 20, 2017, 06:41:42 PM
I doubt you need to have the eccentric leading the crank by 120deg (90+30) as you are making a single not triple. Something more like 100deg (90+10)should be a good starting point.
Title: Re: Freelance mill engine from Stuart castings.
Post by: steam guy willy on October 20, 2017, 08:50:34 PM
Hi all thanks for the further info ...i have looked at the drawings and there are no dimensions shown for the porting ?? Also is there a write up on this engine in the ME magazine ??  Also this will be a single engine so will the throw be the same as the triple ?  Oh ,the joys of an undesigned  freelance !!!
Title: Re: Freelance mill engine from Stuart castings.
Post by: steam guy willy on October 21, 2017, 12:57:40 AM
so, i have now straitened up the ports and got them to dimension , They are actually 1/2" wide rather than 19/64ths as per drawing. there is a bit of lap and all this will have to be worked out before the throw on the eccentrics  is cut. .....Also a box of castings ..all30 Lbs of them ready to Post !!!!????!!!!........
Title: Re: Freelance mill engine from Stuart castings.
Post by: Jasonb on October 21, 2017, 07:41:17 AM
Willy, these are from the triple drawings , the 19/64 is from the valve not the port length.


Title: Re: Freelance mill engine from Stuart castings.
Post by: steam guy willy on October 21, 2017, 01:35:35 PM
Hi Jason , i am a bit confused as to why the port 'length' is 28/64ths=7/16ths and the length/.width in the valve is 19/64ths".is this because as it says 'dimensions may vary ' they don't want you to make openings too large or something, and in my casting the port lengths are actually 1/2"=32/64ths" wide ?!!
Title: Re: Freelance mill engine from Stuart castings.
Post by: Jo on October 21, 2017, 02:04:30 PM
The port length of 7/16" corresponds to the 1/2" length on the valve bucket. If the port is 1/2" that will work as well.

Imperilous measurements are so confusing  :ShakeHead:

Jo

Edit: I have found a space for that box of castings  :naughty:
Title: Re: Freelance mill engine from Stuart castings.
Post by: steam guy willy on October 21, 2017, 02:30:11 PM



Edit: I have found a space for that box of castings  :naughty:
[/quote]


Jo, Would you settle for the swarf/fillings instead ? I could save them up to be recast for you !!!
Title: Re: Freelance mill engine from Stuart castings.
Post by: Jo on October 21, 2017, 02:38:39 PM
Jo, Would you settle for the swarf/fillings instead ? I could save them up to be recast for you !!!

I knew it was too good an opportunity to be true  :lolb: I will just have to see if Graham can find me a Sphinx  :naughty:

Jo
Title: Re: Freelance mill engine from Stuart castings.
Post by: Jasonb on October 21, 2017, 05:14:29 PM
The port length of 7/16" corresponds to the 1/2" length on the valve bucket. If the port is 1/2" that will work as well.

Imperilous measurements are so confusing  :ShakeHead:

I don't think imperial has much to do with it, maybe Willy is confused as due to the drawing projections the cylinder portface is shown as it would be on is horizontal mill engine but the valve recess is shown as it would be on the vertical triple.

maybe you could take a photo of one of your triples as a pic is worth a 1000 words.
Title: Re: Freelance mill engine from Stuart castings.
Post by: steam guy willy on October 22, 2017, 02:05:54 AM
Ok sorry about the castings Jo !! and have Stuart Turner been busy updating their drawings ?  next job is the valve rod gland and the rod with the buckle. i am making these parts wit5h no drawings  !! just making it up as i go along. i suppose a lot of people do this especially when making a new model, and is this why you get measurements like 19/64 ths" appearing on the drawings?!!
Title: Re: Freelance mill engine from Stuart castings.
Post by: steam guy willy on October 24, 2017, 02:30:27 AM
I have added the rear cylinder cover...it is a bit larger as there will be wooden slats insulation attached......Btw the Stuart drawings i have are from 1930 !
Title: Re: Freelance mill engine from Stuart castings.
Post by: steam guy willy on October 29, 2017, 01:07:47 AM
Back to the mill engine... I have made the front cylinder cover and the stuffing box....
Title: Re: Freelance mill engine from Stuart castings.
Post by: steam guy willy on November 01, 2017, 08:39:27 PM
More work on the cylinder standards , These are drawn up and marked out on 3/8' plate .I have some of these squares that have the extra part on the bottom edge, this means that the square stays put and doesn't fall off !!  The pilot holes are drilled and then opened up. the 15/16' holes are first counter drilled with a half inch drill to give a seating for the larger drill. The parts are then angle round off and the top face milled flat...My drill press also has a slow speed attachment that is really useful when drilling large holes....
Title: Re: Freelance mill engine from Stuart castings.
Post by: steam guy willy on November 23, 2017, 02:38:04 AM
I am making the slide bars from 3/8" steel plate. I have made a template to get them the same and have drilled the holes and sawn out the waste ready to mill out the lower slot detail. I have also got a flywheel ready to turn up.
Title: Re: Freelance mill engine from Stuart castings.
Post by: crueby on November 23, 2017, 02:45:08 AM
 :popcorn:


 :popcorn:


 :popcorn:
Title: Re: Freelance mill engine from Stuart castings.
Post by: steam guy willy on November 24, 2017, 01:44:14 AM
I have been working on the slide bars and sort of making it up as i go along. I have been using the Barstock i have in store and have made a sort of general arrangement drawing but may change things as i go along. I have been looking at drawings and photos of other mill engines and am trying to get the best bits from them. !! here are the latest photos........
Title: Re: Freelance mill engine from Stuart castings.
Post by: steam guy willy on November 29, 2017, 02:36:37 PM
The Two slide bars are now almost compleat an i have lowers them a bit. I have also put a Meccanno base together to hold the parts in place...I need to make the webs for the top bar next.....a few photos....
Title: Re: Freelance mill engine from Stuart castings.
Post by: crueby on November 29, 2017, 03:48:42 PM
The proportions are looking fine on the engine. Also, the Meccanno parts look well used, now we know where you got your engineering talent as a kid!
Title: Re: Freelance mill engine from Stuart castings.
Post by: steam guy willy on November 30, 2017, 02:38:48 PM
Hi Chriss, actually because i was poor i had a set called  Trix and every time a rattle went up the hoover pipe i got a clip round the ear because that was another wasted nut !!
Title: Re: Freelance mill engine from Stuart castings.
Post by: steam guy willy on December 01, 2017, 02:01:41 AM
The slides have been milled and drilled and are in place with some "Spares" just in case...I am modelling these parts on full-size practice so they are quite intricate here and there.
Title: Re: Freelance mill engine from Stuart castings.
Post by: steam guy willy on December 02, 2017, 01:03:07 AM
The cross head is started and after turning the piston rod hole from square stock it is filed to shape using hardened silver steel buttons. also the profile is made using the hardened vice jaws as a stop to saw away unwanted material and then filed to shape ,i will remove a bit more to finish it off.
Title: Re: Freelance mill engine from Stuart castings.
Post by: crueby on December 02, 2017, 01:08:05 AM
Great file work as always!

 :popcorn:
Title: Re: Freelance mill engine from Stuart castings.
Post by: MJM460 on December 02, 2017, 06:51:29 AM
Hi Willy, Developing into another wonderful engine.  I really like those brass wear components each side of the more highly stressed steel centre piece.  The maintenance engineer will thank you forever.

MJM460
Title: Re: Freelance mill engine from Stuart castings.
Post by: steam guy willy on December 02, 2017, 11:54:53 PM
Hi All more work with the file and tidying up the parts. I am using the hardened vice jaws as a guide that the files do not penetrate . I have drilled holes in the ends of the slides and this was done on the original to save weight to help with the reciprocation of the parts. Also i am making this engine with guidance from old books with the technical drawings of real steam engines.  ......
Title: Re: Freelance mill engine from Stuart castings.
Post by: steam guy willy on December 07, 2017, 10:44:32 PM
I have made a drawing of the conrod  and will start on this soon, as i have been making the new parts for the Southbend lathe  I have made a new leadscrew nut that is longer and also has a movable part to take up any play. I was also going to make a new leadscrew and did start this but could not find a chaser to clean up the thread once screw cut. However when i put the new nut on the old leadscrew it seemed to fit really well and reduced the play really well so i have now reassembled the parts to see how it functions....
Title: Re: Freelance mill engine from Stuart castings.
Post by: steam guy willy on December 07, 2017, 10:58:08 PM
so the lathe is back together and there is minimal play. so i don't need to continue with the new leadscrew part. I did think that i could make a chaser by cutting up a die and making a holder to use as a chaser...So i can now get back to the engine .........
Title: Re: Freelance mill engine from Stuart castings.
Post by: steam guy willy on December 08, 2017, 02:36:55 PM
Ok ,now back to the engine .....I have found this intriguing reversing lever system that uses a strait slot linkage rather than a curved type on an engine from 1883. I may make this as i have not seen it on an engine before. I shall make a quick meccano set up first to make sure it will work !!
Title: Re: Freelance mill engine from Stuart castings.
Post by: steam guy willy on December 14, 2017, 03:16:34 AM
more work on the engine Have found that the valve gear is actually called the Allen valve gear and i have started on the crankshaft components . also is there a spreadsheet available for calculating the eccentric offset and dimensions to produce a working drawing starting from the valve travel ? or does one use an enlarged drawing ?
Title: Re: Freelance mill engine from Stuart castings.
Post by: crueby on December 14, 2017, 03:52:20 AM
I came across a similar straight link in the Marion hoist engine, which has a very short throw on the link. They only used the reversing lever at full throw one way or the other, where on locomotives and ships they would use partial throw settings to modify the lead/cutoff for efficiency on long runs. For the shovel and in a crane, they are doing a lot of short hauls, stopping and starting frequently.


The valve travel needed is the direct factor in the eccentric offset, total travel distance divided by two is the offset. For the straight line link, not used in partial throw, the length of the link is usually determined by the available space and the throw of the controlling levers.


I love those old drawings, amazing artwork!

Title: Re: Freelance mill engine from Stuart castings.
Post by: Zephyrin on December 14, 2017, 07:58:49 AM
You will find an Allan valve gear model in the Dockstadter software package (free!), this may help you to evaluate the best length for all these links and the positions of the pivots....
but AFIK, the programs are old, and does not run on win10.

http://www.billp.org/Dockstader/ValveGear.html
Title: Re: Freelance mill engine from Stuart castings.
Post by: steam guy willy on December 14, 2017, 01:47:41 PM
Thanks Chris and Zephryn for the info ...i do have a mac computer so i cannot see all of those links but i have taken some measurements  directly off the etched drawings and will see how that pans out ....
Willy.........
Title: Re: Freelance mill engine from Stuart castings.
Post by: steam guy willy on December 15, 2017, 02:20:32 AM
More on the crankshaft...... Two pieces of 5/16 plate were tack welded together and marked out and drilled and reamed. The shapes were first angle ground out then some filing buttons  turned up to file the profiles .....I have made these crank webs with balance weights as per some engines.
Title: Re: Freelance mill engine from Stuart castings.
Post by: steam guy willy on December 16, 2017, 01:13:25 AM
The crankshaft webs are completed and the flywheel turned up. The engine is coming along and the con rod will be tackled next....and LEGO seems to be the new meccano !
Title: Re: Freelance mill engine from Stuart castings.
Post by: crueby on December 16, 2017, 01:35:48 AM
The crankshaft webs are completed and the flywheel turned up. The engine is coming along and the con rod will be tackled next....and LEGO seems to be the new meccano !
All that money I spent on bronze, all I really needed was Lego??   :Lol:
Title: Re: Freelance mill engine from Stuart castings.
Post by: steam guy willy on December 16, 2017, 03:05:26 PM
Q8DpJ-ozh8c
Hi Chris,  perhaps LEGO is the way forward !!!   
And this    CTdk8qyyYnk
Title: Re: Freelance mill engine from Stuart castings.
Post by: crueby on December 16, 2017, 06:21:11 PM
Wow, all that money I spent on lathe, mill, brass.... All I needed was my old set of legos!

 :facepalm:

Interesting that he uses it as a vacuum drive, probably keeps it from blowing apart like a compressed air one would. Maybe we need a new forum section for these!
Title: Re: Freelance mill engine from Stuart castings.
Post by: Gas_mantle on December 16, 2017, 08:12:42 PM
Before I got into model engineering I used to collect Meccano,. it's incredible what some people can build,.

I think this is the forerunner of the modern computer :-

KL_wy-CxBP8
There is a leading surgeon in the USA (who's name escapes me), he spends a lot of his free time in 3rd world countries helping children with spine deformities,. everytime he goes he talks a lot of Meccano and uses it to make braces., stretchers., supports etc to correct bone deformities.

He says it is a cheap but effective solution that can be built on site and easily adjusted on a growing child
Title: Re: Freelance mill engine from Stuart castings.
Post by: crueby on December 16, 2017, 08:30:22 PM
Had to look that one up - Robinson is the name of the guy who built that model, which is a (slightly) simplified version of the Babbage Difference Engine. Quite a feat to build that in anything, let alon Meccano!!
Title: Re: Freelance mill engine from Stuart castings.
Post by: steam guy willy on December 17, 2017, 12:34:42 AM
Ok ,Thats Meccano , Lego , so now some perspex...........I have been making the prototype bearing blocks and will be following heavy duty Mill engine practice with the steel and bronze ones........I heard somewhere that Issigonis   the Morriss Minor designer ,used Meccannoto design the Mini's gearbox !!!
 
Title: Re: Freelance mill engine from Stuart castings.
Post by: steam guy willy on December 21, 2017, 02:47:05 AM
I have drawn out the main bearings and have milled one up to see how it fits  together . I will be  making these next in steel....
Title: Re: Freelance mill engine from Stuart castings.
Post by: steam guy willy on December 22, 2017, 01:29:25 AM
A bit more work on the bearings lots of angle grinding and milling. lots of winterval  things going on the moment..........
Title: Re: Freelance mill engine from Stuart castings.
Post by: steam guy willy on December 22, 2017, 06:10:35 PM
A useful idea to help with successful hand filing ....as well as using the hardened vice jaws a pair of hardened silver steel pegs to use as a file stop as per filing buttons. the vice is cast iron so easily to drill for the 5/32 stubs. I am filing the base of the main bearings after drilling the curved rising parts.
Title: Re: Freelance mill engine from Stuart castings.
Post by: steam guy willy on December 24, 2017, 02:22:07 AM
More work on the bearings ....i have been milling them to size and noticed that the spacing blocks that i bought as a large set have the initials W J H stamped on them. So did they belong to W J Hughes the traction engineer builder and author  ??..I bought them a few years ago at one of the Exhibitions. A few pics of the process with the main bearings....still more work to do on them....
Title: Re: Freelance mill engine from Stuart castings.
Post by: steam guy willy on December 27, 2017, 02:33:35 AM
More work on the bearing blocks ...the tops are milled to size and the caps are angle ground of a strip and also milled to size  the brass bearings will be made from 1/4"  x 1/2"  brass bar that is first soldered together. One of the bearing blocks has its cap fitted and also has its ident number stamped on. lots of filing up still to do though....
Title: Re: Freelance mill engine from Stuart castings.
Post by: crueby on December 27, 2017, 02:59:27 AM
Coming together nicely, I like the shapes on those bearing blocks.


 :popcorn:
Title: Re: Freelance mill engine from Stuart castings.
Post by: steam guy willy on December 28, 2017, 01:51:05 AM
Hi Chris, i have taken this design from an old book of engine practice and have copied this from one of them... the brasses have been made and the two inside small bolts and nuts are actually used to move the brasses sideways, using wedges to give more alignment. You cannot see them of course !! but it adds a bit of authenticity to them. So two more to do and then try and figure out the eccentrics.....
Title: Re: Freelance mill engine from Stuart castings.
Post by: crueby on December 28, 2017, 01:55:23 AM
Interesting, never seen that before, but it sounds like a useful adjustment. Do you have a picture or diagram of how that adjustment works?
Title: Re: Freelance mill engine from Stuart castings.
Post by: Gas_mantle on December 28, 2017, 02:18:04 AM
Looking good, the bearings turned out rather nice  :)
Title: Re: Freelance mill engine from Stuart castings.
Post by: steam guy willy on December 28, 2017, 03:39:57 AM
Hi Chris , here is a drawing of the innards of the bearing but it is not as clear as it could be... i do have another pic somewhere that shows the tapered parts more clearly.these ones may be based on the cam principal which is why the bolts are in slots ?!!

Willy
Title: Re: Freelance mill engine from Stuart castings.
Post by: steam guy willy on December 28, 2017, 06:23:54 PM
HI, Here are more drawings of what is going on inside those bearing blocks.........Some clever stuff going on there but quite difficult to model in our sizes !!!!
Title: Re: Freelance mill engine from Stuart castings.
Post by: crueby on December 28, 2017, 06:35:08 PM
Oh, now that is quite clever!!  Thanks for the extra details!
Title: Re: Freelance mill engine from Stuart castings.
Post by: steam guy willy on December 28, 2017, 06:55:32 PM
And some pics of real engines........with quite elaborate lube boxes !!
Title: Re: Freelance mill engine from Stuart castings.
Post by: steam guy willy on December 31, 2017, 01:22:31 PM
The works so far......I have sort of put the 3 bearing blocks in place and will finish profiling them at a later stage. I now need to make the con rod so am looking at various prototypes to copy! also the allen valve gear needs to be designed so still pursuing that....
Title: Re: Freelance mill engine from Stuart castings.
Post by: steam guy willy on January 01, 2018, 02:19:29 AM
I have been looking at lots of valve motion angles for forward/reverse engines and there is quite a variation  between 30 Degrees and  3 degrees past 90.  Anyway i have decided on 12 degrees and see what happens....I have turned up a piece of perspex with the angles marked out and will use this as a template when milling the slots in the crankshaft.
Title: Re: Freelance mill engine from Stuart castings.
Post by: crueby on January 01, 2018, 02:23:35 AM
The slots you mention are for keys to the eccentrics?
Title: Re: Freelance mill engine from Stuart castings.
Post by: steam guy willy on January 01, 2018, 03:50:59 PM
Hi Chris ,yes i have decided to do it this way but there is a lot of compromises to contend with  Lap/Lead/angle of obliquity to name just a few !!! I have been trying to decipher this book on valves but it is full of compromises !
Title: Re: Freelance mill engine from Stuart castings.
Post by: steam guy willy on January 02, 2018, 12:14:47 AM
The slots have been milled out using the perspex template and the crankshaft loctited  into place again using the perspex to sight through to the web....I will leave this till tomorrow to set ..
Title: Re: Freelance mill engine from Stuart castings.
Post by: steam guy willy on January 03, 2018, 01:20:13 AM
The crankshaft is now pinned to the webs and the central part sawn off, then filed to shape. the engine has now been transferred to a piece of perspex.....
Title: Re: Freelance mill engine from Stuart castings.
Post by: steam guy willy on January 04, 2018, 01:26:28 AM
I have now made a mock up of the eccentrics and sheaves from SRBP and perspex. I have made the eccentric offset 5/32" however when i measured the travel with them in position it was  .274" rather than 5/16"  >3125"  ie twice 5/32" so is this normal  ? or is it  because i measured it wrong ??!! The keyways were cut out with the broach and the keys were filed up from rod...
Title: Re: Freelance mill engine from Stuart castings.
Post by: crueby on January 04, 2018, 02:28:55 AM
Something wasn't centered or slipped if it came out less like that. One easy way to goof is if you don't have both axises (axes? Directions!) properly centered on the mill and move over one axis by the offset, it will wind up short. Good that it just the mockup!
Title: Re: Freelance mill engine from Stuart castings.
Post by: steam guy willy on January 04, 2018, 11:08:08 PM
Hi Chris, yes i think the drilling was not quite accurate enough  however it was only 18 Thou..!! I have also gone back to basics and have measured the actual valve travel required. I made a temporary valve from perspex and calculated the travel required by visual means . this travel is different from the ST drawing, but it does suggest that one should adjust it from the actual port dimensions. However in mid gear there is no movement of the valves, making the offset greater then will allow ample movement of the motion by the lever for the full forward and backward direction to take place. The slots will then be filed into the quadrant to achieve full power once the engine is tested....The Allen valve gear will be designed next using the hints and tips in the valve design book.....
Title: Re: Freelance mill engine from Stuart castings.
Post by: crueby on January 05, 2018, 01:30:06 AM
What is the 'Allen' valve gear? There are so many variations its hard to keep track. Do you have a picture of it from one of the books?

 :popcorn:
Title: Re: Freelance mill engine from Stuart castings.
Post by: steam guy willy on January 05, 2018, 02:06:40 AM
Hi Chris, this is a picture of the Allen valve gear... it is basically Stephensons  valve gear but with a straight expansion link . I found this on Graces Guide from an edition of the Engineer magazine from the 1880's here is a pic of it .....It is quite a compact arrangement and i have not seen it before on a mill engine. Just watching the weather news and it seems like pretty awful weather in the USA ...hope you are ok  They have called it a Bomb Cyclone ! not heard of that before.
Title: Re: Freelance mill engine from Stuart castings.
Post by: crueby on January 05, 2018, 02:28:22 AM
Wow, thats what the main hoist engine on the Marion 91 has! I didn't know what it was called. I figured they used it since that engine never ran for long periods like a loco or mill engine, but was set up for short full power pulls, so they didn't care about feathering the steam usage. The link on the shovel is very short and a straight line.
Title: Re: Freelance mill engine from Stuart castings.
Post by: steam guy willy on January 06, 2018, 02:56:24 AM
Hi Chris, Good to hear about the Marion...I think this type of linkage was made so that you only had to pull the lever a short distance for a lot of motion travel.?  I have been scheming the linkage by dead reckoning as i only have the picture that is a steel engraving from the 1850's ,and i don't know how accurate the dimensions are....So a few pics of the build so far......!There is a vid about the Allen valve gear here..It is rather lengthy and there are no actual measurements meCkaR7gGIM
Title: Re: Freelance mill engine from Stuart castings.
Post by: steam guy willy on January 08, 2018, 02:45:29 AM
I have made all the parts to see how it goes together and was surprised at how much the lever had to move to get from one end of the link to the other !!! I thought it would only have to move a small amount ?? I had to change the sheaves as there was not enough offset on them. so quite pleased that the 'dead reckoning ' seam to have worked out... So , sort of finished ?!! just need to make all the parts from steel etc and also a base and the pipe work......The actuating lever is at the back....
Title: Re: Freelance mill engine from Stuart castings.
Post by: crueby on January 08, 2018, 02:49:51 AM
Coming together nicely - good thing you are making the mockups to check things before making the metal parts. I did the same thing on a sailboat cockpit once, used stacks of 2x4's, flat boards, and extension cords to mock it all up and see if I fit in it comfortably! The original 3D modelling!   :Lol:
Title: Re: Freelance mill engine from Stuart castings.
Post by: steam guy willy on January 08, 2018, 03:07:42 AM
Hi Chris, thanks for that ...have you made the Marion Allen gear yet ?? it would be interesting to see real dimensions ?  You could call the finished engine Robin ??!!!! wi tell you why later !!!...saw this Volts Wagon  !! well it is electrically powered !!
Title: Re: Freelance mill engine from Stuart castings.
Post by: crueby on January 08, 2018, 03:32:23 AM
Hi Chris, thanks for that ...have you made the Marion Allen gear yet ?? it would be interesting to see real dimensions ?  You could call the finished engine Robin ??!!!! wi tell you why later !!!...saw this Volts Wagon  !! well it is electrically powered !!
Ive done the 3d model for it, going to be quite a while before I build it in metal. I'll get the drawing page out...
Title: Re: Freelance mill engine from Stuart castings.
Post by: crueby on January 08, 2018, 03:48:31 AM
Here is the (model sized) drawing of the linkage from the Marion:
(https://s5.postimg.org/xchu6449z/Linkage.jpg)
It is actuated from a large pivoting linkage under the floor, with long rods leading back up to the operator position at the front of the cab.

Funny you should mention Robin - for the fundraising effort on the Marion, they are going to name it the 'Maid Marion Project' to get some extra attention.

Love the VW bus/train!

Also, attached is a copy of the patent that Marion did on their version of the linkage - the straight link is not the focus of it, more their version of the sliding parts, but it does talk about the straight link and its advantages in that context.
Title: Re: Freelance mill engine from Stuart castings.
Post by: crueby on January 08, 2018, 04:43:25 AM
Willy, I was looking up the Allen gear, and from this quote

 "The Allan straight link valve gear (invented by Alexander Allan (https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alexander_Allan_(locomotive_engineer)) in 1855) combined the features of the Stephenson and Gooch gears. The reversing and cut-off functions were achieved by simultaneously raising the radius rod and lowering the link or vice versa."

it sounds like the Marion just uses the straight link portion of the Allen setup. Does your engine do the moving of radius rod? I don't have a good mental image of this, can't find a real diagram of the Allen linkage.
Title: Re: Freelance mill engine from Stuart castings.
Post by: steam guy willy on January 08, 2018, 02:37:13 PM
Hi Chris, Thanks for the info.....Maid Marion was Robin Hoods love interest ...the well known outlaw from sherwood forest in Yorkshire !! I was wondering what the offset angle of the two sheaves are as it does not seem to appear very much on your drawing. Here is a drawing of the Valve gear i found somewhere recently. Love the work on the Marion bucket so far looking spectacular !! I have noticed on my engine that in mid gear there is still movement back and forth on the valve rod,  not very much but definitely not zero movement ??
Title: Re: Freelance mill engine from Stuart castings.
Post by: crueby on January 08, 2018, 04:34:00 PM
Aha - that first drawing you show explains the text I found, moving both like that is an interesting arrangement. On the Marion, that second link to the valve rod is not there, the valve rod stays at a fixed position and just the straight link moves. So, guess that makes it a Half-Allen! Wonder if that is Half-Nelson's brother?   :Lol:
For the Marion, they were not concerned with efficiency of steam on long runs, since they would have been stop/starting very frequently, so they  most likely just set the link at full throw and left it there. The only time they engaged reverse would have been when moving the machine with the tracks. Lowering the bucket was done by releasing the throttle, which had a bypass to connect both steam lines to exhaust to let it freewheel, and they used the brake band (controlled with a foot pedal) to control lowering the bucket under gravity power.

I did not work out the offset angles for the eccentrics yet on the Marion yet. It was way too close quarters to try and measure them on the real engine, I'll probably just work that out when I build the engine, and adjust it in place with a set screw to get the correct motion. The smaller slew/crowd engines did not use an external reverse linkage at all, they had a really clever internal valving to reverse the steam/exhaust passages from the single throttle valve.

Thanks for that diagram, I had not been able to find that.
Title: Re: Freelance mill engine from Stuart castings.
Post by: Steam Haulage on January 08, 2018, 08:13:49 PM
Hi SGWilly,

I think you will find Sherwood Forest is in Nottinghamshire. The main road nearest to where I live goes there in a few miles. My grandchildren can easily cycle there.

I was born in neither Yorkshire nor Nottinghamshire so I can't say what those born there were might think. Probably the Tykes would be the most upset; they would expect you to know exactly where the Notts/Yorks border is what ever your heritage.

Jerry :old:
Title: Re: Freelance mill engine from Stuart castings.
Post by: crueby on January 08, 2018, 09:41:17 PM
Hi SGWilly,

I think you will find Sherwood Forest is in Nottinghamshire. The main road nearest to where I live goes there in a few miles. My grandchildren can easily cycle there.

I was born in neither Yorkshire nor Nottinghamshire so I can't say what those born there were might think. Probably the Tykes would be the most upset; they would expect you to know exactly where the Notts/Yorks border is what ever your heritage.

Jerry :old:

Uh Oh - hope we don't start the NottingYorks history war!   :ROFL:
Title: Re: Freelance mill engine from Stuart castings.
Post by: steam guy willy on January 08, 2018, 10:27:43 PM
Hi SGWilly,

I think you will find Sherwood Forest is in Nottinghamshire. The main road nearest to where I live goes there in a few miles. My grandchildren can easily cycle there.

I was born in neither Yorkshire nor Nottinghamshire so I can't say what those born there were might think. Probably the Tykes would be the most upset; they would expect you to know exactly where the Notts/Yorks border is what ever your heritage.

Jerry :old:

Oh no, boundary changes again or is it gerrymandering ....remind me not to wear that pink rose again !!! sorry geography has never been my strong point ,and where is Rutland again ??!!!!......
willy....
Title: Re: Freelance mill engine from Stuart castings.
Post by: steam guy willy on January 11, 2018, 03:26:06 PM
Hi All, went to the Norridge engineers show and tell last night and there are still a few places on the bus to go to the Ally Pally ME exhibition on Saturday 20TH Jan The bus leaves from Eaton Park at 7.30 am Hope to see people there !! also i have found out how to scribble on the photos with my Mac pooter....
Title: Re: Freelance mill engine from Stuart castings.
Post by: 10KPete on January 11, 2018, 04:09:24 PM
.... also i have found out how to scribble on the photos with my Mac pooter....

Please tell me how!!!!

Pete
Title: Re: Freelance mill engine from Stuart castings.
Post by: steam guy willy on January 11, 2018, 05:48:16 PM
Hi Pete,   You get the photo up on Photos.......you then go to edit and  and there is a toolbar that has a logo that is a circle with 3 dots in it. when you press on this logo it will bring up a word that says  MARKUP   you press on this and it will give you a toolbar with colours and text and arrows and things , this needs experimenting with  ,with double clicks and stuff and much cursing about !! will try and geta a screen shot to show it......here in Norwich we have an apple store and it is possible to get one to ones to ask about stuff...and it is free.....
Title: Re: Freelance mill engine from Stuart castings.
Post by: 10KPete on January 11, 2018, 06:50:05 PM
Yes!!! I've often wondered, but only slightly, how to do that. It works!

Thanks,
Pete
Title: Re: Freelance mill engine from Stuart castings.
Post by: Stuart on January 11, 2018, 06:57:40 PM
Or

Open the photo in preview, then click tools then annotate and play away you can put in arrows , text and much more

Have fun

Stuart
Title: Re: Freelance mill engine from Stuart castings.
Post by: 10KPete on January 11, 2018, 09:49:20 PM
Yes, fun it is! I've never played with that feature before and now another door in communication has opened!

Thanks to all,

Pete
Title: Re: Freelance mill engine from Stuart castings.
Post by: steam guy willy on January 17, 2018, 01:36:54 AM
Have now finished the 3 bearing blocks ,,,after quite a bit of hand filing and they are in place with the  crankshaft and flywheel. I will be at the Model engineer exhibition on satuurday at alexander palace so may see some of you there..........
Title: Re: Freelance mill engine from Stuart castings.
Post by: steam guy willy on January 26, 2018, 01:45:54 AM
More work on the motion parts.....the strait link is made from ground flat stock ( that will be hardened),,, using filing buttons. when i filed the strait link slot i used a 6mm drill shank to check the width. The dimensions are taken from the SRBP parts already made. I have made the valve tolling bar from square stock and to file the profile correctly and get both sides equal i have used the hardened pins in the vice to file up against, and used a small clamp so when i turn the bar over the groves will match up on both sides...
Title: Re: Freelance mill engine from Stuart castings.
Post by: crueby on January 26, 2018, 02:02:16 AM
You say that you will harden the link with filing buttons. I don't follow, hows that work?
Title: Re: Freelance mill engine from Stuart castings.
Post by: steam guy willy on January 26, 2018, 02:21:16 AM
Hi Chriss ...whoops there is a comma missing after Hardened ...I was trying to use brevity with the post as it is  2 am over here and i am a bit tired ...putting the roof back on my shed after last weeks 80 mph gales !!!.............. :embarassed:    :agree: :Doh:
Title: Re: Freelance mill engine from Stuart castings.
Post by: scc on January 26, 2018, 11:28:30 AM
I'm loving all this bench work....sawing, filing, etc.   Nice engine, I may start something similar soon.   Sorry to hear about your shed roof,   :(
 I hope all your tools, parts survived ok.
Regards       Terry
Title: Re: Freelance mill engine from Stuart castings.
Post by: steam guy willy on January 28, 2018, 03:30:11 AM
i am making the eccentric parts as per later engine practice with a brass bearing part between the steel sheave and the steel strap. Earlier beam engines had a solid brass strap, but later locomotives and mill engine had this type. This is just a practice piece using SRBP and the brass bearing part. The outside strap is divided and then bolted to the faceplate and turned up with the slot to hold the thin brass bearing.  The bearing is then attached to a mandrill and turned to fit the outer strap. When i make the actually strap the brass bearing part will be fixed to the strap with Loctite  and the inside will be the bearing against the sheave. the slot is to hold the brass part in position only....
Title: Re: Freelance mill engine from Stuart castings.
Post by: steam guy willy on January 28, 2018, 03:31:54 AM
More pics of the parts.........
Title: Re: Freelance mill engine from Stuart castings.
Post by: steam guy willy on January 29, 2018, 12:49:28 AM
Am now making the straps from steel plate. it is bolted to a steel back plate with 2BA bolts. Also a drawing of a bearing block with the brass bearing part that also has  white metal inserts, I won't go this far of course !!. Ready to machine the part tomorrow...
Title: Re: Freelance mill engine from Stuart castings.
Post by: crueby on January 29, 2018, 01:50:54 AM
Still watching along, nice parts!
Title: Re: Freelance mill engine from Stuart castings.
Post by: steam guy willy on January 30, 2018, 02:52:56 AM
The next strap is made ...and to avoid drilling and tapping more holes i have used the existing turned parts to position the new blanks. once this is in place the other turned part was removed and the second strap blank offered up to it and bolted in place. a centre hole was drilled through it from the backplate part to facillitate the entering once on the lathe by using a centre in the tailstock. I have used some clamps at the back of the backplate that come from trunking used in ceiling installations. ..because the are this shape they butt up to the webs on the backplate so you don't need a spanner. The hole is first put through the strap using a RotaBroach. it is then bored to size and the slot put in for the bearing. the first strap is marked out to locate the bolts and they are sawn ready to profile.
Title: Re: Freelance mill engine from Stuart castings.
Post by: steam guy willy on January 31, 2018, 01:40:29 AM
More on the straps .... i have been sawing off the waste and using my adjustable ball vice ,i can set it over to get strait cuts with the saw as i can see both the the top and sides together without having to kneel down !! all this sawing is quite hard work and i have to file it all size next ,...i have a cunning trick up my sleeve to do this................The other brass slipper is turned and fitted so i now have to do all that sawing again......the two halves of the fist strap are drilled and tapped tho hold them together for more work....
Title: Re: Freelance mill engine from Stuart castings.
Post by: steam guy willy on January 31, 2018, 10:41:23 PM
I have now filed up the outside profile of the strap using hardened steel ball races...this was a bit easier than turning up a pair of silver steel items that needed to be 35mm. these were £7.50 for the pair that equates to 3 cups of coffee !!  so off to see the full moon.!!!!
Title: Re: Freelance mill engine from Stuart castings.
Post by: steam guy willy on February 02, 2018, 02:04:42 AM
One of the sheaves has now been made . It does hide the brass bearing ring but it is still there doing its job!! i have made the flange parts from a separate piece of steel and loctited it in place through a larger hole in the sheave. This gives the sheave a larger amount of contact with the crankshaft as the relative thickness or the sheave is quite small compared to the diameter. the cut outs in the sheave will be made later. there is also the protrusion for the oil cup.
Title: Re: Freelance mill engine from Stuart castings.
Post by: crueby on February 02, 2018, 02:38:43 AM
Those parts are looking great, love the shapes.


 :popcorn:
Title: Re: Freelance mill engine from Stuart castings.
Post by: steam guy willy on February 03, 2018, 02:31:18 AM
Thanks Chris ,it should look even better when everything is finished and tidied up.....Just done 6 hours work... and the sheaves and straps are in place , so need to make the bits to connect them to the reversing link...
Title: Re: Freelance mill engine from Stuart castings.
Post by: 10KPete on February 03, 2018, 02:40:52 AM
Wow, that's looking great, Willy! And I'll second Chris' comment on the shapes. You have created some customs there!

Pete
Title: Re: Freelance mill engine from Stuart castings.
Post by: scc on February 03, 2018, 12:22:48 PM
Willy ,   I have said before and I'll say again....this thread is my sort of build. Craftmanship with hand tools. I love your methods. My machines are quite limited so I like to saw and file when possible. This is a brilliant build. I will be following  :popcorn: :cheers:along   Terry
Title: Re: Freelance mill engine from Stuart castings.
Post by: steam guy willy on February 04, 2018, 03:19:41 AM
Hi Terry,  thank you for your comments and one of the advantages with this sort of build is that you can make it up as you go along and use what materials that one has to hand . also using bar stock lets you have lots of stock to clamp handheld when fashioning the parts.... I have milled the slots in the straps and silver soldered some plate in place to extend them towards the drop link....I have also numbered them so i don't get them mixed up !!
Title: Re: Freelance mill engine from Stuart castings.
Post by: steam guy willy on February 05, 2018, 11:55:40 PM
The fork ends are now silver soldered on the ends of the straps and profiled to shape by filing.. the eccentric drop links have been roughly profiled to shape but are a bit 'heavy' at the moment...still lots of work to do....
Title: Re: Freelance mill engine from Stuart castings.
Post by: Ramon on February 06, 2018, 11:08:17 AM
Just been looking through here for the first time Willy - well up to 'your old tricks' I see :ThumbsUp: Your innovation and hand skill never fails to impress  :ThumbsUp: :ThumbsUp:

I'll look forwards to seeing this at Forncett - there's only nine month to go you know  ;)

Regards - Tug
Title: Re: Freelance mill engine from Stuart castings.
Post by: steam guy willy on February 07, 2018, 01:43:39 AM
Hi Tug thanks for looking in and i have quite a few more tricks up my sleeve..!! I was going to put castleated nuts on the part screwed clevis pins as per pics but with a normal clevis pin a split pin will hold it in place, but with the castelated nut ,the split pin, if it is slotted into the slots , when the legs are bent over they will not be in the correct orientation to encircle the nut. So should the slots be really wide or will a taper pin be used ?? To cut the slots i have used a box spanner and turned the nuts round to file each side. I have got some 1/16 split pins but am trying to source some 1/64th or 1/32nd items.....!! Ok found a pic on the web !!
Title: Re: Freelance mill engine from Stuart castings.
Post by: 10KPete on February 07, 2018, 08:12:54 AM
That last pic is how to do an axle nut on a vehicle.  I don't like it for this engine of yours. That third pic is how I would do it. It seems to fit into the fabric of the engine better.

 :shrug:

Pete
Title: Re: Freelance mill engine from Stuart castings.
Post by: steam guy willy on February 08, 2018, 01:52:43 AM
I have now replaced all the SRBP items and have tweaked all the parts to run freely. The next part is the con rod and am looking at drawings to make a fairly representative item....
thanks Pete for that comment ,and that is exactly the way the front wheels are held on on my Morris Minor !!
Title: Re: Freelance mill engine from Stuart castings.
Post by: crueby on February 08, 2018, 02:26:07 AM
Looking great!


BTW, what is srbp?
Title: Re: Freelance mill engine from Stuart castings.
Post by: steam guy willy on February 08, 2018, 02:37:27 AM
Hi Chris  It is the old fashioned plastic and it stands for Synthetic Resin Bonded Paper....it is a good insulator and was used extensively in the electronics industry. It is quite tough and smelly when worked and it also is prone to splitting >>>I have quite a large quantity of it in all shapes and sizes...
Title: Re: Freelance mill engine from Stuart castings.
Post by: 10KPete on February 08, 2018, 04:47:25 AM
Micarta is what we call it over here. It's the paper version of phenolec board which is made with fabric. Handiest stuff since I don't know what...

That engine looks great! Keep it coming.. :popcorn:

Pete
Title: Re: Freelance mill engine from Stuart castings.
Post by: steam guy willy on February 15, 2018, 08:49:32 PM
More work on the Allen valve gear with a description of its workings and more meccano to see how to link up the parts...
Title: Re: Freelance mill engine from Stuart castings.
Post by: crueby on February 16, 2018, 03:30:11 AM
Very interesting linkage setup. Since the two link rods are at a bit of an angle to each other when at forward or reverse, the position of the eccentric is going to be a little different than a stephonson setup. I think. Not sure. If it was me, I'd hold the eccentrics with set screws so I could adjust their angles.
Title: Re: Freelance mill engine from Stuart castings.
Post by: Zephyrin on February 16, 2018, 08:01:52 AM
Very nice engine you are building, and very interesting thread on the valve gears setup, and clever tips too, thanks to share...
Title: Re: Freelance mill engine from Stuart castings.
Post by: steam guy willy on February 16, 2018, 08:39:21 PM
[quote author=crueby

Very interesting linkage setup. Since the two link rods are at a bit of an angle to each other when at forward or reverse, the position of the eccentric is going to be a little different than a stephonson setup. I think. Not sure. If it was me, I'd hold the eccentrics with set screws so I could adjust their angles.

Hi Chris, unfortunately i have put the keyways already on the sheaves and the crankshaft so i cannot do any adjustments with this !! But.....
Title: Re: Freelance mill engine from Stuart castings.
Post by: steam guy willy on February 17, 2018, 02:40:56 AM
Started on the con rod ...the crosshead end has a wedge to adjust the bearing this is adjusted with a bolt and two locknuts.  The bearings are made from pieces of three pin plug and the earth pin is 5/32"  X 5/16" .they are soft soldered together and turned up with the SC4 jaw . they are then filed up together and then parted on the stove. ........
Title: Re: Freelance mill engine from Stuart castings.
Post by: steam guy willy on February 18, 2018, 03:14:37 AM
The con rod is coming together... The brass bearing is turned up and the radius at the end is filed and checked with the gauge . the bare is milled to size and the strap is made from SRBP to get the dimensions it will be made from steel later. I have drawn these parts but fashion them by eye to see how they come together. the bar is then turned down and the ends sawn off to fit.....Once the parts have been made and look ok i will redraw them with the correct dimensions.
Title: Re: Freelance mill engine from Stuart castings.
Post by: scc on February 18, 2018, 01:49:56 PM
the "standard" strap, block,gib and cotter big end assembly.  A couple of pics of one I did a long time ago as an apprentice...No machining, only a drill allowed.   Making one a bit smaller :Lol: with the bearing made from 13 amp plug bits :shrug:  I'm lost for words :praise2:


Magic,     Terry
Title: Re: Freelance mill engine from Stuart castings.
Post by: steam guy willy on February 19, 2018, 12:59:21 AM

the "standard" strap, block,gib and cotter big end assembly.  A couple of pics of one I did a long time ago as an apprentice...No machining, only a drill allowed.   Making one a bit smaller :Lol: with the bearing made from 13 amp plug bits :shrug:  I'm lost for words :praise2:


Magic,     Terry

Hi Terry, I also made a few things when did i my apprenticeship in the army as an electronics engineer...way back in 1964 !! I needed some brass for the bearing 5/32"  x 5/16" and the plug pins were exactly the right size !!! I do scrap metal and recycling and have a workshop and house full of random materials and stuff !!  so can always find things i need !!...
Thanks for looking in .......
Title: Re: Freelance mill engine from Stuart castings.
Post by: steam guy willy on February 19, 2018, 11:39:01 PM
The strap end is started on the stock milled down and drilled and filed to fit the con rod end.The slots are then drilled and filed to shape. next to make is the type of gib and cotter and there are quite a few to choose from !!
Title: Re: Freelance mill engine from Stuart castings.
Post by: crueby on February 19, 2018, 11:42:13 PM
Wow, you are getting quick at making those end cap assemblies. Very nice!
Title: Re: Freelance mill engine from Stuart castings.
Post by: steam guy willy on February 20, 2018, 12:13:31 AM
More strap ends...........
Title: Re: Freelance mill engine from Stuart castings.
Post by: steam guy willy on February 20, 2018, 02:59:22 AM
The strap gib and cotter are in place and the strap still needs profiling with the help of a hardened button that needs to be made. so ....getting there.......
Title: Re: Freelance mill engine from Stuart castings.
Post by: crueby on February 20, 2018, 03:13:56 AM
Your inner cannibal is showing in that first picture! Unique file handle!
Title: Re: Freelance mill engine from Stuart castings.
Post by: steam guy willy on February 20, 2018, 10:23:58 PM



Your inner cannibal is showing in that first picture! Unique file handle!

Hi Chris, yup fraud so ..actually it is from a roadkill badger that i ate a few years ago !!!
The big end strap is filed up with the help of some buttons  and what i need to do now is make the base.....
Title: Re: Freelance mill engine from Stuart castings.
Post by: Ramon on February 20, 2018, 10:31:00 PM
Roast Badger eh Willy - you never fail to surprise  ;) ;)

Looking good - lot's of work going into this at your usual pace  :ThumbsUp:

Keep it coming mate

Tug
Title: Re: Freelance mill engine from Stuart castings.
Post by: steam guy willy on February 23, 2018, 12:59:12 AM
Started on the base ...with a piece of 1/8th steel plate  I have these squares that have the extra feet that are very helpful when marking out.  Also this old junior hacksaw that works really well but you have to remove the end pegs ! There is a slot cutout for the reversing mechanism using chain drilling
Title: Re: Freelance mill engine from Stuart castings.
Post by: steam guy willy on February 28, 2018, 02:49:20 PM
I have attached the bedplate raised portions to look a bit more like a casting and i also need to decide how i am going to make the mouldings for the raised sides..... Also two feet of snow in these parts !!
Title: Re: Freelance mill engine from Stuart castings.
Post by: Ramon on February 28, 2018, 05:55:26 PM
I guess you'd need 'snow shoes' for a pair of feet like that Willy  :Lol:

Cleared a path to the workshop only to have it covered near as deep again within an hour  ::) The temp had dropped to 63 inside which says something for the little oil filled radiator but the garage was a different matter. Can't start my compressor due to the cold oil - blew two fuses trying. I guess I'll need to get a fan heater on it ;)

It's coming on Willy - you've made great progress on this one ;)

Tug

Title: Re: Freelance mill engine from Stuart castings.
Post by: steam guy willy on March 01, 2018, 11:25:40 PM
Hi tug, yup and also i need them or snow chains for my bike !!...Saw this in my local cafe and thought of you !!! also this is the 'mod' No 1 i did on my hacksaw.... more work on the engine ...I have had to tap numerous 6 ba and 5 BA threads on the engine and i have devised this to speed up the work...also i do not have to disconnect everything to get in with the tap stock..... There is also a pic of the adjusting bolts to get the engine running freely....I need to make the bearings now for the weigh shaft...
Title: Re: Freelance mill engine from Stuart castings.
Post by: steam guy willy on March 01, 2018, 11:39:10 PM
I have found a design for a governor operated steam valve that i will put on the engine and also a close up of the Bandsaw mod...
Title: Re: Freelance mill engine from Stuart castings.
Post by: Ramon on March 02, 2018, 08:43:36 AM
Morning Willy :D

I intend to make up for my interlude today  ;)

That's a nice governor/valve arrangement that will make a great addition to the engine.  I notice the pads set into the castings looking like they need some fillets. Did I ever mention JB Weld   :Lol: :Lol:

I can see what you've done on the saw - that end seems OK on mine but then it's relatively young in comparison. I'll keep it in mind though.

Love the tap wrench BTW but take care on those 16 BA holes  ;)

Regards  - Tug
Title: Re: Freelance mill engine from Stuart castings.
Post by: steam guy willy on March 07, 2018, 09:03:31 PM
So, i have been thinking about the governor and has photocopied the drawing to the correct size and will be making it up soon...also the bearings for the link motion have been put on....Also this is enlarged photo for Tug.
Title: Re: Freelance mill engine from Stuart castings.
Post by: steam guy willy on March 08, 2018, 01:09:43 AM
More work on the governor... the frame is a casting and i am building it up from stock   1/2 brass sawn off, milled to depth, the inside drilled and milled, filed and with the bevel gears and balls located from stock...
Title: Re: Freelance mill engine from Stuart castings.
Post by: scc on March 08, 2018, 10:18:32 PM
Willy    you are an inspiration :praise2:  I am soon to start on a similar engine (pics on New project mill engine) You will see a lot of its basics are similar to yours. I have access to a full size one that I can copy but not dismantle much. I think I will be progressing at a much slower pace than you but learning from you as I go along :popcorn: Thank you for such thorough posting.
Do I detect that you are from Suffolk? I live in Lancashire, born in Devon...my grandad sailed to Devon having been born and bred in Tattingstone. ...anywhere near you?

Best Wishes      Terry
Title: Re: Freelance mill engine from Stuart castings.
Post by: Ramon on March 08, 2018, 10:29:57 PM
Ha ha Willy - you are the winner of this weeks 'Spot the RAMON sign at a slippery floor near you' special prize  :Lol:

We saw one of these a while back in a supermarket - didn't expect someone to actually post a pic of one. I always smile at the signs on the swing doors at the Paget Hospital - 'Beware Tugs in Action'  :D

Nice start on the Governor parts  :ThumbsUp:

Regards - Tug
Title: Re: Freelance mill engine from Stuart castings.
Post by: steam guy willy on March 09, 2018, 02:47:06 AM
Hi All ........more on the governor  the outside profile filed to shape and the slots milled out for the webs. These are inserted and silver soldered in place, then filed to profile........and the gears inserted......
Hi, terry ....I was born in kent actually and moved up to Norridge  about 40 years ago... and have managed to retain my Kentish accent rather than the broad Naaaarfk...ie Hev yer got a loight  bor  and That,s roight noice bor  etc etc etc
Title: Re: Freelance mill engine from Stuart castings.
Post by: steam guy willy on March 11, 2018, 02:40:13 AM
The balls have been drilled and the links started on.......
Title: Re: Freelance mill engine from Stuart castings.
Post by: steam guy willy on March 14, 2018, 02:34:56 AM
The governor is in place , and i will put a finial on the top . The next part is the linkage to the steam valve... this is quite a complicated part and is quite different from the usual way they are constructed....also a few pics of my files and the handles !!
Title: Re: Freelance mill engine from Stuart castings.
Post by: Ramon on March 14, 2018, 08:59:44 AM
Nice work on your governor Willy - moi wud, yu dunt angabowt dew ya bor, :D

I must say I envy your collection of rifflers - mine are getting well past their sell by date now and the source of replacement has long since gone  :D

Regards - Tug
Title: Re: Freelance mill engine from Stuart castings.
Post by: Gas_mantle on March 14, 2018, 10:34:27 AM
Taking shape nicely, I reckon we'll see it running very shortly  :)
Title: Re: Freelance mill engine from Stuart castings.
Post by: steam guy willy on March 14, 2018, 11:15:58 PM
Yes it will be ready to run soon and when the steam valves are connected up it will be ready.... the  governor is taking shape with this type of connection to the bell crank arm . i have not seen this before or made one so quite interesting...also easy to repair and restore.....
Title: Re: Freelance mill engine from Stuart castings.
Post by: steam guy willy on March 17, 2018, 01:21:33 AM
The bell crank is made on thegovernor and have started on the gov valve.....
Title: Re: Freelance mill engine from Stuart castings.
Post by: crueby on March 17, 2018, 01:40:40 AM
Beautiful work!  :popcorn:
Title: Re: Freelance mill engine from Stuart castings.
Post by: 10KPete on March 17, 2018, 05:40:21 AM
Error...Error....Error..

The end view of the regulator shaft that shows the angle for the cut-away. Dwg. shows 45* but I think it should show either:
45* either side of center, or, better, 90*.

Beautiful work Willy!!  I love to watch the parts morph out of a stock shape. Sculpting comes to mind...

Pete
Title: Re: Freelance mill engine from Stuart castings.
Post by: steam guy willy on March 18, 2018, 01:57:40 PM
Hi Pete, yes you are are right..this is however a drawing that came from an old Model Engineer magazine and there are quite a few mistakes and random dimensions on them...So the governor is taking shape and the main steam valve is next
Title: Re: Freelance mill engine from Stuart castings.
Post by: sco on March 18, 2018, 02:06:13 PM
Looking great Willy!

Simon.
Title: Re: Freelance mill engine from Stuart castings.
Post by: steam guy willy on March 20, 2018, 03:20:38 PM
I have now made the plinth for the governor and am screaming out the  main steam valve. Also some kind ex member has delivered a rather nice twin cylinder mill engine to the Norwich & D.S.M.E.it has a 14" flywheel and is 22" long and 15" wide ...a few pics to follow........There is mo PTO or governor and also are the main bearings back to front ??
Title: Re: Freelance mill engine from Stuart castings.
Post by: crueby on March 20, 2018, 04:15:23 PM
The main bearings are not necessarily backwards - on the Marion engines, the blocks face to the back too - here is what the crowd/slew engines look like:
(https://s5.postimg.org/ej1vglnh3/Crowd_engine.jpg)
The main engines are much larger, more like typical mill engine, and have the same direction on the bearings.
Title: Re: Freelance mill engine from Stuart castings.
Post by: Jasonb on March 20, 2018, 04:25:59 PM
Plenty of Tangye engines also had the bearings angled that way, as steam engines are double acting you get equal thrust both ways so it does not matter as much as on an open crank IC engine where the power stroke is only in one direction. The Thompstone engine that I made also had them that way round

(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v156/jasonballamy/Engineering/Thompstone/DSC01835_zpskailuqs7.jpg)

It's a nice engine though, what is the bore and stroke?
Title: Re: Freelance mill engine from Stuart castings.
Post by: steam guy willy on March 20, 2018, 04:40:24 PM
OK, yup .....some do..some don't....some will ..some won't  thanks for this info i will have to tell them that it is ok !!! the bearing blocks are not cast in though so i thought they had been bolted on the wrong way round !! Hi Jason the stroke is about 4.25 inches and the bore is about 1.75" so with P.L.A.N............2.3 HP ??
Title: Re: Freelance mill engine from Stuart castings.
Post by: Ramon on March 20, 2018, 06:42:48 PM
Hi Willy, that kind 'ex member' is a real good friend of mine - I went with him to pick that engine up from Arnold Hoskins place many years ago - the club was looking for members to look after some of the engines they had had donated. That must have been in the nineties some time  :o

There's no history as to original maker as far as I know.  It was, shall we say, not in a great state and Barry rebuilt it as to how you have it. As you say it's big and has now outgrown his workshop  :D If you bring it to Forncett we'll have to ban you from running it - you'll consume all the air  :ROFL: Actually thinking about it I do believe Barry brought it one year and that is just what happened - I'll have to ask him.

If you are now the guardian that's a very nice engine to have on display - hope you've got a good strong shelf  ;)

Great progress on your engine - finally got some paint on mine today

Tug

Title: Re: Freelance mill engine from Stuart castings.
Post by: scc on March 20, 2018, 10:08:28 PM
A very nice"set" of mill engines.  Inspiring as I head along a similar path for the first time.    Terry
Title: Re: Freelance mill engine from Stuart castings.
Post by: steam guy willy on March 22, 2018, 02:53:08 AM
The main steam valve has been started on  so steaming is on the horizon..........Hi Tug , So are there lots more engines out there ?  We now have a purpose built club house so there is room for this and any other engines !! I did ask about the history of it ,but no one seems to Know. !! There should be some paperwork that exists somewhere ??
Title: Re: Freelance mill engine from Stuart castings.
Post by: Ramon on March 22, 2018, 06:30:07 PM
Hello Willy, more good progress  :ThumbsUp:

Yes, there were other engines and they were usually brought out for exhibitions. Whether any paperwork remains I have no idea.

If I recall correctly, at the time Barry got that engine they were all stored at Arnold Hoskin's  (Did you know him? He was a founder member I believe and President in latter years). Members were asked if they would consider taking on storage and Barry offered. As said, I went with him and he choose that one from those available. I certainly remember helping him carry it to the car! Long after I let my membership lapse I recall having a discussion with Ray Snelling who told me that the engines had all gradually 'disappeared' over the time - they had even lost track of the one above.

I can't think of anyone save Brian Tipple and possibly Barry Fane or Neville Gower from the 'old guard' who may have any idea. Bernard Towers might but he's left of course. My last time at the club would have been just as work began on the clubhouse. No sinister motive for leaving just one of dwindling interest at the time along with travelling up on my own after Barry had decided to stop going well before. That (for me) would be just after the last exhibition held in the Hewitt school - (2006?)


Looking forwards to that first run  ;)

Tug
Title: Re: Freelance mill engine from Stuart castings.
Post by: steam guy willy on March 23, 2018, 02:30:38 AM
The stop valve is made but seems a bit big.... it looked all right on the drawing but 3 dimensionally seems larger it also needs the handle  so ..lots of tidying up  before the steam test !!  yes Tug i will bring the catalogue for you............
Title: Re: Freelance mill engine from Stuart castings.
Post by: crueby on March 23, 2018, 02:45:21 AM
Coming together nicely!


  :popcornsmall:
Title: Re: Freelance mill engine from Stuart castings.
Post by: Ramon on March 23, 2018, 10:28:29 AM
Hi Willy - thats what I thought about mine once finished but looking at images of full size its surprising just how big these valves were relative to the cylinder. Remember what you are seeing though is the valve body well coated with insulation that gives that impression. You should be able to 'reduce' the size optically by increasing the thickness of the inlet pipe - well that's what I'm hoping will happen on mine  ;)

I'll look forwards to perusing that catalogue  :)

Regards - Tug
Title: Re: Freelance mill engine from Stuart castings.
Post by: steam guy willy on March 25, 2018, 01:59:20 PM
The stop valve / governor block is now attached and the valve gear linkage is starting to take shape. I am also thinking about the base.  Also came across this article in 1908 Model Engineer  about water cutting cranks  ??? Any ideas about this ?? I does not say anything in the text about it !!
Title: Re: Freelance mill engine from Stuart castings.
Post by: steam guy willy on March 28, 2018, 02:22:43 AM
The reversing lever has been schemed out and mounted on some SRBP  to locate it correctly on the engine  .... Also don't you just love Closed Captions on video's... Also i have asked the local club members but they don't know about this water cutting process ??!!!
Title: Re: Freelance mill engine from Stuart castings.
Post by: crueby on March 28, 2018, 03:32:09 AM
Willy, higher up that same page it gives a clue, where it mentions water cutting "as it is called", mentioning it is a propietary mix for a cutting fluid. Also found this statement in a history of machining...


"In the 19th century it was not uncommon to use plain water. This was simply a practical expedient to keep the cutter cool, regardless of whether it provided any lubrication at the cutting edge–chip interface. When one considers that high-speed steel (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/High_speed_steel) (HSS) had not been developed yet, the need to cool the tool becomes all the more apparent. (HSS retains its hardness at high temperatures; other carbon tool steels do not.) An improvement was soda water (sodium bicarbonate (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sodium_bicarbonate) in water), which better inhibited the rusting of machine slides. These options are generally not used today because more effective alternatives are available."
Title: Re: Freelance mill engine from Stuart castings.
Post by: steam guy willy on March 30, 2018, 03:02:55 AM
The reversing lever has now been schemed out and made on the County Carlow  4-4-0 GWR , Don Young ,Loco pattern... It looks a bit clumsy with the latch retaining block on top ! I may make something that fits underneath  the curved slotted part instead....

Willy, higher up that same page it gives a clue, where it mentions water cutting "as it is called", mentioning it is a propietary mix for a cutting fluid. Also found this statement in a history of machining...


"In the 19th century it was not uncommon to use plain water. This was simply a practical expedient to keep the cutter cool, regardless of whether it provided any lubrication at the cutting edge–chip interface. When one considers that high-speed steel (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/High_speed_steel) (HSS) had not been developed yet, the need to cool the tool becomes all the more apparent. (HSS retains its hardness at high temperatures; other carbon tool steels do not.) An improvement was soda water Sodium_bicarbonate]sodium bicarbonate in water, which better inhibited the rusting of machine slides. These options are generally not used today because more effective alternatives are available.

Yes this may be what they were talking about ,But i don't know why they only used water on certain parts ?

Willy.
Title: Re: Freelance mill engine from Stuart castings.
Post by: steam guy willy on March 31, 2018, 02:20:30 AM
The link rod has been made with a 6 BA left and right hand threaded ends for a fine adjustment of the link .So that is all the parts made to do a steam test.....just need to adjust all the parts to get them in the right positions to get everything moving freely........
Title: Re: Freelance mill engine from Stuart castings.
Post by: steam guy willy on April 02, 2018, 04:28:11 AM
further adjustments and gasket making.. and a bit of tidying up so soon be ready for steam...............
Title: Re: Freelance mill engine from Stuart castings.
Post by: steam guy willy on April 03, 2018, 09:34:44 PM
       so the air test is now done with a few misshaps !! and we have a runner..... There was quite a bit of 'fitting' going on behind the scenes...all will be revealed later. Initially it did not want to run so i attached a heavy brass weight to the crankshaft and that got it going....more soon...time for tea.!!!!!!
Title: Re: Freelance mill engine from Stuart castings.
Post by: Gas_mantle on April 03, 2018, 09:39:34 PM
Great stuff Willy, looks and sounds the part  :)

Are you intending to run it on steam eventually ?
Title: Re: Freelance mill engine from Stuart castings.
Post by: steam guy willy on April 03, 2018, 09:48:03 PM
Great stuff Willy, looks and sounds the part  :)

Are you intending to run it on steam eventually ?
 Yes it will be run on steam when it is totally finished with the proper base plate and the governor fitted etc...This was just a tryout with a compressor !!
willy
Title: Re: Freelance mill engine from Stuart castings.
Post by: Ramon on April 03, 2018, 09:49:57 PM
Well done Willy - just that little bit of refinement and it'll be a great addition to the collection  :ThumbsUp:

Look forwards to seeing it finalised and painted

Best - Tug
Title: Re: Freelance mill engine from Stuart castings.
Post by: sco on April 03, 2018, 09:52:42 PM
Great job Willy - been following quietly from the start.

Simon.
Title: Re: Freelance mill engine from Stuart castings.
Post by: crueby on April 03, 2018, 10:34:51 PM
Great progress Willy! The shop elves and I have been watching along...

         :popcornsmall:
 :popcorn: :popcorn: :popcorn:
Title: Re: Freelance mill engine from Stuart castings.
Post by: steam guy willy on April 04, 2018, 03:19:46 AM
Thanks for all the kind comments ,   and all that scheming with the eccentric offset and the Allen reversing motion dimensions etc etc seems to have worked out ok ...so now lots of tidying up and making all the correct fasteners etc etc......
Title: Re: Freelance mill engine from Stuart castings.
Post by: steam guy willy on April 05, 2018, 03:00:16 AM
       The engine now has the governor bolted in place and the engine seems to be running ok ...all i have to do now is tidy up all the parts and make the stand then paint it . It was quite fun doing this and i am so glad it actually runs !! I also have to put cylinder steam drain cocks and made a boiler feed pump to give it some work to do...It is now 3 am so time to go to bed .........
Title: Re: Freelance mill engine from Stuart castings.
Post by: Gas_mantle on April 05, 2018, 12:26:32 PM
I think it looks great Willy and a good runner too - well done  :ThumbsUp:

There looks to be a lot going on when it is running that gives it visual interest.

What size bore and stoke is it ?
Title: Re: Freelance mill engine from Stuart castings.
Post by: zeeprogrammer on April 05, 2018, 06:23:07 PM
Beautiful. And as Gas_mantle said, lots of visual interest.

What plans do you have for it?
Title: Re: Freelance mill engine from Stuart castings.
Post by: sco on April 05, 2018, 08:31:45 PM
Great stuff Willy - I love your relaxed presentation style :-)

Simon.
Title: Re: Freelance mill engine from Stuart castings.
Post by: steam guy willy on April 06, 2018, 01:57:36 AM
Hi Zee,  et al , the stoke and bore is 1.5"  X 5/8"  and i have this old motor/dynamo that could be connected to it ...... and my relaxed presentation  is because i keep forgetting my words, and after a lifetime of talking i find i keep repeating myself !!
Title: Re: Freelance mill engine from Stuart castings.
Post by: 10KPete on April 06, 2018, 02:21:20 AM
Oh, I like that dynamo! Driven by that engine it would make an impressive power plant.

Beautiful work, Willy!!

 :cheers:

Pete
Title: Re: Freelance mill engine from Stuart castings.
Post by: Gas_mantle on April 06, 2018, 01:24:19 PM
I like the idea of driving the dynamo, if you do connect them up I'd be interested to see a video  :)
Title: Re: Freelance mill engine from Stuart castings.
Post by: steam guy willy on April 08, 2018, 01:31:19 AM
Hi all, yes i might actually incorporate the dynamo possibly wit a lamp.......i am making all the correct parts for the main valve and it is quite fiddly with those 10 BA nuts and bolts so i have made this little tool....you screw on the nut and then hold the handle bit up to the bolt and as you unscrew the nut off the holder it screws itself not the bolt !! that is a 5 pence piece next to the components....
Title: Re: Freelance mill engine from Stuart castings.
Post by: steam guy willy on April 13, 2018, 01:51:26 AM
More work on the engine  i am making these jigs to file the linkages to shape... I have also been given some old sewing machines and the have these crankshafts in them    1/2" shafts and about 1' throw..  Also a nice pic from The Engineer  1892 april of a workshop....would make a good diorama ....Also the track at the Norwich society railway...a local firm wanted to try out some GPS tracking devices and used the track as there was exactly the same path travelled with each pass !!
Title: Re: Freelance mill engine from Stuart castings.
Post by: scc on April 13, 2018, 09:31:41 AM
Lovely engine Willy, I've been busy and missed a few posts...caught up now.......very impressed..Well Done.             Terry
Title: Re: Freelance mill engine from Stuart castings.
Post by: Jasonb on April 13, 2018, 09:47:22 AM
Jo could do a diarama like that erecting shop, just stand all her castings on it rather than hidden away in boxes. Infact the bench in the middle of her workshop looks a bit like that with the triples on it ;)

Globe Works was the home of Robey & Co. (https://www.gracesguide.co.uk/Robey_and_Co) There is a photo of their "Electric Light" engine which may give you an idea of how to mount your dynamo and be able to adjust belt tension.
Title: Re: Freelance mill engine from Stuart castings.
Post by: Jo on April 13, 2018, 10:23:11 AM
Jo could do a diarama like that erecting shop, just stand all her castings on it rather than hidden away in boxes. Infact the bench in the middle of her workshop looks a bit like that with the triples on it ;)

The dining table looks a bit like that at the moment with a set of horizontal castings sitting on one side and various other engine sets  ::). The give away that proves it is not a picture of my dining table is that picture does not include Surus fondling them :pinkelephant:

Jo
Title: Re: Freelance mill engine from Stuart castings.
Post by: steam guy willy on April 13, 2018, 02:31:29 PM
Hi Jo , Just wondering, is your table and floor made with end grain oak blocks !! good for soaking up oil and wine and also spilt nail varnish remover !!!   :) Pictures pleeeeeze.!!

Willbert.....
Title: Re: Freelance mill engine from Stuart castings.
Post by: Steamer5 on April 13, 2018, 09:52:05 PM
Hi Willy,
 Nice job! Runs as good as it looks!

The photo of the erecting shop....if you look hard thru the flywheel I'm sure these a bottle of red back there....... :naughty:

Mind you when Jo posts a picture of her table I'm pretty sure that there wont be enuff room for a bottle on it!

Cheers Kerrin
Title: Re: Freelance mill engine from Stuart castings.
Post by: zeeprogrammer on April 13, 2018, 09:57:27 PM
Mind you when Jo posts a picture of her table I'm pretty sure that there wont be enuff room for a bottle on it!

There's always room for a red.
Would it be blasphemous to suggest an engine as a coaster?
Title: Re: Freelance mill engine from Stuart castings.
Post by: Jo on April 15, 2018, 08:36:57 AM
Good try guys... last time I posted a picture of my dining table you may recall I got this response:

Tell Dumbo to get out the way so we can have a decent look at those gas engine castings ;)

After that you will appreciate Surus is still defending his casting fondling area and every time I try to take a picture all I get is this :ShakeHead:

Jo
Title: Re: Freelance mill engine from Stuart castings.
Post by: Jasonb on April 15, 2018, 08:54:18 AM
he is not doing a very good job of hiding that Southworth offering ;)
Title: Re: Freelance mill engine from Stuart castings.
Post by: steam guy willy on April 15, 2018, 04:24:41 PM
Hi Jo, thanks for the pic ...and is Surus the greek god of castings fondling  ? !!

More work on the engine componants...I have a new plate to mount the engine on with space for the Dynamo  so will be looking for a lamp standard to illuminate the engine ....any ideas ...are there contempory lamps available from 0 gauge railway outfits ??  Also a friend showed me this brass plate and asked me what it was ? i did guess and was correct !!! On the reversing lever i turned up the curved parts from a large piece of steel plate and will use the bits left over for the frame.
Title: Re: Freelance mill engine from Stuart castings.
Post by: steam guy willy on April 17, 2018, 02:23:14 AM
So a bit more work on the reversing lever   and    the brass plate is from a signal box and is attached to the points lever.. it is quite an old one and i have been advised that it could sell for about £200 !!!!at auction ....
Title: Re: Freelance mill engine from Stuart castings.
Post by: zeeprogrammer on April 17, 2018, 02:41:14 AM
I like that picture. The details explain a lot.
Title: Re: Freelance mill engine from Stuart castings.
Post by: steam guy willy on April 20, 2018, 02:23:47 AM
I have taken the engine apart to make the new base to accommodate the dynamo and some lamps....now the weather has changed i am doing lots of stuff at the allotment so not much work in the WKSP   . Also hoping for fine weather on the 6th May..!!!!so will anybody join in ? I don't know about any photos though !!
Title: Re: Freelance mill engine from Stuart castings.
Post by: steam guy willy on April 25, 2018, 01:04:14 AM
Bit more work on the new baseplate also something for Chris about his next project.?  this is in the latest copy of Engineering  in Miniature  also on the next page is this article !! i sent it in about 4 years ago !! also in one of the local second hand shops this item ?? not sure about it but there is info with it ....a sort of small copy of the Claud Hamilton that used to ply the Eastern region . It had a solid copper inner fire box !
Title: Re: Freelance mill engine from Stuart castings.
Post by: crueby on April 25, 2018, 01:15:34 AM
Wow, thats a lot of tubes in that Stanley boiler! Tons of surface area for the heat to travel through.   :ThumbsUp:
Title: Re: Freelance mill engine from Stuart castings.
Post by: steam guy willy on April 25, 2018, 01:21:32 AM
[quote author=crueby
Wow, thats a lot of tubes in that Stanley boiler! Tons of surface area for the heat to travel through.   :ThumbsUp:
 Yup I have been for a ride in one here in Norwich ...the acceleration was amazing ..felt like 1 G!!   And this is me pretending to be the proud owner of a few !!
Title: Re: Freelance mill engine from Stuart castings.
Post by: zeeprogrammer on April 25, 2018, 01:56:50 AM
You just made a bunch of people even more jealous than they were before.  ;D
Excellent pics!

I have no doubt Chris is going to bed tonight thinking Stanley.  :Lol:
Title: Re: Freelance mill engine from Stuart castings.
Post by: crueby on April 25, 2018, 02:15:03 AM
You just made a bunch of people even more jealous than they were before.  ;D
Excellent pics!

I have no doubt Chris is going to bed tonight thinking Stanley.  :Lol:


Zzzzzzztanzzleyzzzz....
Title: Re: Freelance mill engine from Stuart castings.
Post by: steam guy willy on April 26, 2018, 01:57:15 PM
More work on the new base and when i do chain drilling, i mark out the hole spacing and drill out every other hole ,then centerpunch the intermediate holes at a slight angle if needed then drill the holes with a slightly smaller or larger drill to complete the row... Also i have this sort of Abrafile saw that has a type of blade that i have not seen before ? there is no name on the saw and will try and find some blades to fit .The broken blade is the one i need to find.it is quite amazing what is happening in and around Norwich with steam cars and little workshops and the like, but most is hidden away from the local denizens ....
Title: Re: Freelance mill engine from Stuart castings.
Post by: crueby on April 26, 2018, 02:11:10 PM
Willy, there are a number of makers for those abrasive blades, but the ones I have seen are made for cutting wood, tile, stone, specifically say not ferrous metals. There are fine bladed hacksaw and jewelers saw blades that work well.
Title: Re: Freelance mill engine from Stuart castings.
Post by: steam guy willy on May 02, 2018, 12:58:02 AM
Hi Chris , i have not been ably to get those blades locally so will have to visit some car boot sales !!

More work on the crosshead slides top parts ...the slot is milled and the flanges filed up and soldered in place. the base has been made to accommodate the dynamo and is ready to have the sides welded in place...
Title: Re: Freelance mill engine from Stuart castings.
Post by: steam guy willy on May 11, 2018, 01:16:29 AM
I am now making the engine base plate ...it will be made with these strips of 1/8" strip plate and there will be these gusset flanges to get the correct angle to simulate a casting. Also i have found a series of articles by Muncaster that describes a mill engine using the Allen valve gear... however some of his dimensions are slightly different to mine. He also describes the benefits of this type of valve gear for the operator, and this might be of interest to Chris !! these articles are from theModel Engineer   Vol 25  1911.
Title: Re: Freelance mill engine from Stuart castings.
Post by: crueby on May 11, 2018, 01:51:00 AM
That base is going to look great, nice way to make it.
The article is good, he has a nice writing style, easy to follow and with practical mixed with the theoretical. Thanks!
Title: Re: Freelance mill engine from Stuart castings.
Post by: steam guy willy on May 17, 2018, 01:44:37 AM
The base has now been made and the curved well for the flywheel is next...this needs to be deep enough so as the flywheel won't get clogged up with nuts bolts mugs oilcans etc etc. a cold day to day so stayed in the WKSP !!
Title: Re: Freelance mill engine from Stuart castings.
Post by: steam guy willy on May 22, 2018, 01:45:16 AM
I have now been making the raised parts to mount the components on. These plates will be undercut so that a JB weld fillet will attach more firmly... the 'studs' will be bolts screwed up from underneath and secured with nuts to get the correct height. The dynamo is actually on the centre line with the main bearing assy's,which is quite fortunate...
Title: Re: Freelance mill engine from Stuart castings.
Post by: crueby on May 22, 2018, 02:03:35 AM
 :popcornsmall:
 :popcorn: :popcorn: :popcorn:
Title: Re: Freelance mill engine from Stuart castings.
Post by: steam guy willy on May 26, 2018, 11:36:07 PM
Went to Strumpshaw steam engine rally today and there were quite a few castings and engines The two ST 10's were £200 each , one with the box and paperwork. the 5A was £100 and the other DD one was also £100  There were also other castings that i did not recognise. !! Eye candy for some of us !!.............
Title: Re: Freelance mill engine from Stuart castings.
Post by: Gas_mantle on May 26, 2018, 11:41:20 PM
£100 for a 5a sounds a bargain  :)
Title: Re: Freelance mill engine from Stuart castings.
Post by: steam guy willy on May 26, 2018, 11:45:22 PM
More Pics From Strumpetshaw..........
Title: Re: Freelance mill engine from Stuart castings.
Post by: steam guy willy on May 26, 2018, 11:52:57 PM
£100 for a 5a sounds a bargain  :)

Yup but the bloke wanted it for £75 ...wouldnt budge on that and walked away empty handed..it is quite a big engine !! huge ,in fact !!!
Title: Re: Freelance mill engine from Stuart castings.
Post by: Jo on May 27, 2018, 07:18:39 AM
£100 for a 5a sounds a bargain  :)
Yup but the bloke wanted it for £75 ...wouldnt budge on that and walked away empty handed..it is quite a big engine !! huge ,in fact !!!

Some people  :hellno:

Yes there are some silly bargains to be had at shows :)

Jo
Title: Re: Freelance mill engine from Stuart castings.
Post by: Jasonb on May 27, 2018, 07:24:17 AM
The Double Diagonal would be my pick of the bunch. Thanks for the photos Willy.
Title: Re: Freelance mill engine from Stuart castings.
Post by: steam guy willy on May 27, 2018, 12:46:26 PM
The Double Diagonal would be my pick of the bunch. Thanks for the photos Willy.

 Is a double diagonal an offset quadruple  ?? :Lol: :ROFL:  I did wonder what DD was ?? nothing to do with the size of the pair !!! :naughty:
Title: Re: Freelance mill engine from Stuart castings.
Post by: Jo on May 27, 2018, 12:56:09 PM
I did wonder what DD was ??

One Lang Bridge Double diagonal and a model of it. Castings sometimes available from Brunel Engineering - it is advisory to collect the castings when you hand over any money ::)

Jo

P.S. Surus has just checked his set of those castings are still safe  :pinkelephant:
Title: Re: Freelance mill engine from Stuart castings.
Post by: Gas_mantle on May 27, 2018, 01:09:42 PM
That Lang Bridge engine looks to be the one at Bolton steam museum, it's a great day out for anyone in the area.

https://www.nmes.org/

I started making a very similar V twin last year, I ran into trouble making the cylinders so it is a project still to finish.
Title: Re: Freelance mill engine from Stuart castings.
Post by: steam guy willy on May 27, 2018, 01:44:50 PM
I did wonder what DD was ??

One Lang Bridge Double diagonal and a model of it. Castings sometimes available from Brunel Engineering - it is advisory to collect the castings when you hand over any money ::)

Jo

P.S. Surus has just checked his set of those castings are still safe  :pinkelephant:

Thanks for the info interesting engine with just one eccentric and two straps ...Thanks

Willbert
Title: Re: Freelance mill engine from Stuart castings.
Post by: Jasonb on May 27, 2018, 01:53:32 PM
I wonder if that set of castings were the old Helix ones as Brunell tend to use more non ferrous

Ramon posted his one some time back which runs very nicely.

http://www.modelenginemaker.com/index.php/topic,718.msg7074.html#msg7074
Title: Re: Freelance mill engine from Stuart castings.
Post by: Jo on May 27, 2018, 02:23:20 PM
Surus' set is also all CI  :pinkelephant:
Title: Re: Freelance mill engine from Stuart castings.
Post by: Jasonb on May 27, 2018, 02:54:42 PM
You would think that little chap would have a smile on his face by now :-\
Title: Re: Freelance mill engine from Stuart castings.
Post by: Jo on May 27, 2018, 02:57:42 PM
You would think that little chap would have a smile on his face by now :-\

You only see him when I am taking a picture of his castings and he is worried they might go missing  :facepalm:

Jo
Title: Re: Freelance mill engine from Stuart castings.
Post by: steam guy willy on May 27, 2018, 10:34:18 PM
I wonder if that set of castings were the old Helix ones as Brunell tend to use more non ferrous

Ramon posted his one some time back which runs very nicely.

These were all cast iron as far as i could see...these and the 5A were all mixed up so i think the flywheel could have come from either but ended up with the DD,,,

Willy
Title: Re: Freelance mill engine from Stuart castings.
Post by: Gas_mantle on May 28, 2018, 12:48:30 AM
You would think that little chap would have a smile on his face by now :-\

You only see him when I am taking a picture of his castings and he is worried they might go missing  :facepalm:

Jo

I thought that was the trunk guide  ;)
Title: Re: Freelance mill engine from Stuart castings.
Post by: 10KPete on May 28, 2018, 01:02:42 AM
You would think that little chap would have a smile on his face by now :-\

You only see him when I am taking a picture of his castings and he is worried they might go missing  :facepalm:

Jo

I thought that was the trunk guide  ;)

GROAN

PETE
Title: Re: Freelance mill engine from Stuart castings.
Post by: steam guy willy on June 02, 2018, 11:57:47 PM
More work on the engine ...fitting the cylinder block... the front assy was 21 thou two low so was binding a trifle on the crosshead guides. I have used my ex GPO feeler gauges to determine the exact dimension. I have a quantity of shim brass stock to lift the footing, and this will be trimmed to size Also the footings will have JD weld applied to give a good fillet as per a casting detail. I have also a quantity of these small magnets to stop the shop elves running off with them !!
Title: Re: Freelance mill engine from Stuart castings.
Post by: steam guy willy on June 11, 2018, 02:24:18 AM
so more work with finishing the raised plates for the components and making the well part to finish the flywheel socket.. I have some recycled copper plate from the art school print dept... I used to make intaglio printing presses and people from the art college bought them so i managed to get quite a lot of 16 gauge copper sheets that they used as test pieces.  A flanging plate is made from perspex and the copper is cut out and aneald then flanged using a aluminium hammer. the curved piece is then bent to shape and soldered in place . The part will then be screwed in place to the base...
Title: Re: Freelance mill engine from Stuart castings.
Post by: steam guy willy on June 11, 2018, 02:25:44 AM
More pics.......
Title: Re: Freelance mill engine from Stuart castings.
Post by: crueby on June 11, 2018, 02:42:17 AM
Like the way you made the flywheel well. Coming along great!


 :popcorn:
Title: Re: Freelance mill engine from Stuart castings.
Post by: scc on June 11, 2018, 11:37:20 AM
NICE :LickLips:
Title: Re: Freelance mill engine from Stuart castings.
Post by: steam guy willy on June 17, 2018, 01:45:03 AM
Ok , the box for the valve gear motion well has been made and will need attaching to the plat with small 8BA screws. Also found this book in a bookshop for £5 and will take it to Forncett in October if any body wants it....
Title: Re: Freelance mill engine from Stuart castings.
Post by: steam guy willy on June 20, 2018, 12:55:43 AM
So...today was my birthday and here are a few pics of my average day,,,,
Title: Re: Freelance mill engine from Stuart castings.
Post by: Dave Otto on June 20, 2018, 12:58:24 AM
Happy birthday Willy!
It appears that you had a nice day.


Dave
Title: Re: Freelance mill engine from Stuart castings.
Post by: steam guy willy on June 20, 2018, 01:00:38 AM
Thanks Dave ,...and i have reached my three score years and ten!!
Title: Re: Freelance mill engine from Stuart castings.
Post by: crueby on June 20, 2018, 01:10:25 AM
Happy birthday! That smile says it all!!

Title: Re: Freelance mill engine from Stuart castings.
Post by: zeeprogrammer on June 20, 2018, 01:20:48 AM
Happy Birthday Willy!

Yeah...Love the smile!
Title: Re: Freelance mill engine from Stuart castings.
Post by: 10KPete on June 20, 2018, 01:53:52 AM
I don't remember being that happy at my 70th! Must have been quite the party..

Happy Birthday, Willy :cheers:

Pete
Title: Re: Freelance mill engine from Stuart castings.
Post by: sco on June 20, 2018, 04:25:55 AM
Many happy returns Willy!

Love the T-shirt,

Simon.
Title: Re: Freelance mill engine from Stuart castings.
Post by: deltatango on June 20, 2018, 05:43:42 AM
Happy Birthday Willy, you are just a few months ahead of me! Looks like a very good day.
David
Title: Re: Freelance mill engine from Stuart castings.
Post by: Ramon on June 20, 2018, 06:43:32 AM
Happy Birthday Willy - welcome to the 'seventies'  :)

Engine is coming on well, looking forwards to seeing it - just fifteen weeks to go - where does it all disappear to  ::)

Regards - Tug
Title: Re: Freelance mill engine from Stuart castings.
Post by: MJM460 on June 20, 2018, 12:12:48 PM
Happy birthday, Willy.

Three score and ten?  That's the new fifty insn't it.  Should be many more birthdays to come.

And time to build many more engines.

MJM460
Title: Re: Freelance mill engine from Stuart castings.
Post by: steam guy willy on June 20, 2018, 01:44:24 PM
Thanks for all the nice comments and it has been quite a party all 70 years of it ,and thanks to the NHS for keeping me going !!
Title: Re: Freelance mill engine from Stuart castings.
Post by: steam guy willy on July 07, 2018, 12:30:08 AM
A bit more work on the engine ..I have tried out the fillets to the raised plates by using isopon P38..this is car filler we have in Blighty. I have filed triangular notches in the plates to prevent the filler from falling out. I have thought about the JB weld but thought this might sag and flow when it cures in the drying process.
Title: Re: Freelance mill engine from Stuart castings.
Post by: crueby on July 07, 2018, 01:52:30 AM
Looking good Willy!


JB Weld does have another version called JB Quik that sets in just 6 minutes, so it doesn't have the long time of the normal version to sag. All st ast as tough, not as high a heat resistance, but great for this sort of work.


 :popcorn:
Title: Re: Freelance mill engine from Stuart castings.
Post by: steam guy willy on July 11, 2018, 01:28:16 AM
Looking good Willy!


JB Weld does have another version called JB Quik that sets in just 6 minutes, so it doesn't have the long time of the normal version to sag. All st ast as tough, not as high a heat resistance, but great for this sort of work.

Hi Chris , Thanks for the suggestion but have got a big tin of Isopon so i will use that as it is easier to see the fillets when cleaning up. More work on the motion lever cross shaft and the flywheel well and the motion work well. The temperature has dropped quite a bit so am in the WKSP again .  We have had no rain in Norfolk for about 43 days so when we do get some precipitation the roads will be very slippery as all the oil will be released !

 
Title: Re: Freelance mill engine from Stuart castings.
Post by: scc on July 11, 2018, 05:02:19 PM
Belated Birthday Greetings Willy........Love the van.......that's just how they should look, not shiny on a rallyfield!    Terry
Title: Re: Freelance mill engine from Stuart castings.
Post by: steam guy willy on July 12, 2018, 01:56:57 PM
Thanks Terry, and making the feet for the engine base these will be rounded and tapered to simulate a casting
Title: Re: Freelance mill engine from Stuart castings.
Post by: steam guy willy on July 13, 2018, 02:06:08 AM
More work on the feet... and i have to see the doctor tomorrow to look at the X-Rays of my feet and legs as they are starting to be troublesome !! still must'nt crumble !!
Title: Re: Freelance mill engine from Stuart castings.
Post by: steam guy willy on July 14, 2018, 01:24:33 AM
Ok more work on the feet (model that is !!)  and i will attach an extra 'flange' part around the bottom to make it look more like a casting .This part will also be indented to help hold the fillet/filler in place the metal for this part is an upcycled item from some sort of clumpy thing ...the other feet and knees thing is just 70 years of wear and tear...!!
Title: Re: Freelance mill engine from Stuart castings.
Post by: scc on July 14, 2018, 09:07:03 AM
Looking good Willy,  I'm currently doing the base on mine, but in a different way. Had I seen your post first I might have followed ::)       Best Wishes for the X-rays, etc.    Terry
Title: Re: Freelance mill engine from Stuart castings.
Post by: steam guy willy on July 16, 2018, 02:43:25 PM
Hi Terry, there are many ways to achieve desired results and it all comes down to tools ,materials ,time , etc etc ..I have been thinking about how to attache the feet and flanges and will screw the flanges on with screws and the feet will be temporarily attached with grub screws prior to soft soldering...i think...i shall see how this goes...
Title: Re: Freelance mill engine from Stuart castings.
Post by: crueby on July 16, 2018, 04:43:03 PM
 :popcorn: :popcorn: :popcorn:
Title: Re: Freelance mill engine from Stuart castings.
Post by: steam guy willy on July 19, 2018, 01:09:56 AM
The twelve feet have now been roughed out and tapped for the temporary fixing screws...next job is to Finnish the surface patina clean off all the coconut oil taping compound and either Locktite or soft soldering into place. I have also just found a nice piece of solid mahogany to make the sub base from...it was discarded from a Jack Wills trendy/old fashioned clothing shop !!!
Title: Re: Freelance mill engine from Stuart castings.
Post by: MJM460 on July 19, 2018, 08:30:08 AM
Hi Willy, that nice piece of mahogany has found a higher purpose at last.  The engine is going really well.  I have been interested to see how you built up that base.

I hope you (and others) are also still thinking about thermodynamics!

MJM460
Title: Re: Freelance mill engine from Stuart castings.
Post by: steam guy willy on July 19, 2018, 06:25:55 PM
Hi MJM,  yes several questions.....Does pure water evaporate faster than river/rain water ?  If you have a dish of mains water , once it has evaporated are you left with lots of elements/detritus etc that can be detected ?..I have noticed that when i have my evening Baileys and coffee nightcap if i put a sugar cube in it and don't stir it the last mouthful seems to be very sweet as if the sugar cube has not dissolved into the whole of the cup equally ,or is this my imagination, Is the rate of evaporation of water equal throughout the  liquid range from ice to  100 degrees, at atmospheric pressure  or have i not been paying attention ??..We have now had 6 weeks of zero precipitation and high temperatures to go with it   !!  So lots of time watering at the lotment !! But lots of archiology showing up in the fields !! Also the piece of mahogany was the centre leaf of an expanding table i think !

willy
Title: Re: Freelance mill engine from Stuart castings.
Post by: crueby on July 19, 2018, 06:50:07 PM
Quote
Also the piece of mahogany was the centre leaf of an expanding table i think !
Uh oh,that table is going to be short come next holiday gathering, are you in trouble!!   :Lol:
Title: Re: Freelance mill engine from Stuart castings.
Post by: steam guy willy on July 20, 2018, 01:50:21 AM
Hi Chris, fortunately no..!!! there is so much discarded stuff in Norwich and i have a few favourite skips and places !!  if you see stuff you have to take it there and then otherwise someone else will bag it ! I have a few secret stash places dotted round the city so when i see stuff i can quickly hide it up !! then go and pick it up later!....More work on the feet ..I have decided to use locktite with the grub screws. I have also riveted the first bottom flange on.  I will actually attach the engine to the wood base with hidden screws in side the base so there is no undue pressure on the feet.
Title: Re: Freelance mill engine from Stuart castings.
Post by: MJM460 on July 20, 2018, 01:01:11 PM
Hi Willy, great drought inspired questions.  I will discuss them on the thermodynamics thread so as not to hijack your wonderful freelance engine build.

Glad to see the beautiful mahogany plank elevated in the world!

MJM460

Title: Re: Freelance mill engine from Stuart castings.
Post by: steam guy willy on July 21, 2018, 01:05:15 AM
continuing with the base...exept my upstairs neighbour has returned home so i fave to stop work...
Title: Re: Freelance mill engine from Stuart castings.
Post by: steam guy willy on July 22, 2018, 01:03:01 AM
Ok the neighbour is out and i have finished off the metal work for the base....next job is the filler...................There was just enough of the bar for the flange..cutting it a bit fine !! Also the mahogany table top ready to make up
Title: Re: Freelance mill engine from Stuart castings.
Post by: steam guy willy on July 24, 2018, 01:18:02 AM
A few attempts at filler...it is quite difficult getting the hardner proportions exactly right though. Also the 2BA studding to hold the base down to the mahogany stand. This will have a nice moulding put on with a router.  I have a lot of phone cards ,,,about 20.000 so have plenty of plastic to use as applicators and i use these wooden tea stirrers to gat the basic fillet.
Title: Re: Freelance mill engine from Stuart castings.
Post by: steam guy willy on July 25, 2018, 11:38:35 PM
Finishing off the filler and attaching the Reversing lever parts to the base...I have mixed up some filler undercoat paint and have to wait 3 hours for the harder to react properly...I am using Phonix precision paints as per usual and am deciding which colours to use ...black for the base and red perhaps this time ?.  Also a pile of cable to strip from Jarrollds skip..twill make a lot of rivets or may just scrap it ,,Copper is about £4400 a metric tonne.....Also looking for a new project and came across this Easton and Anderson been engine in the Bressingham Museum...just down the road from me !!!
Title: Re: Freelance mill engine from Stuart castings.
Post by: steam guy willy on July 28, 2018, 11:33:29 PM
Have finished the filling and have painted the base with the acid etch paint and then with black gloss... As the black gloss is so shiny it is quite difficult to photo it possibly better in daylight !
Title: Re: Freelance mill engine from Stuart castings.
Post by: steam guy willy on July 30, 2018, 11:58:04 PM
I have now put the mouldings on the base using a router and started cleaning up the flywheel........
Title: Re: Freelance mill engine from Stuart castings.
Post by: zeeprogrammer on July 31, 2018, 12:10:31 AM
I'm here watching and enjoying.  :popcorn:
Title: Re: Freelance mill engine from Stuart castings.
Post by: steam guy willy on August 01, 2018, 02:09:48 AM
Thanks Zee,   starting on the painting  I will be using the red paint...B.R. Coach Crimson  [blood] 1945-1955  !!  Phoenix Precision paints...!!
Title: Re: Freelance mill engine from Stuart castings.
Post by: crueby on August 01, 2018, 02:13:55 AM
 :popcorn: :popcorn: :popcorn:
Title: Re: Freelance mill engine from Stuart castings.
Post by: steam guy willy on August 04, 2018, 02:58:26 AM
More Painting and I need to mill out the eccentric sheave profiles ...I have a small rotary table for this , a George Thomas design that came from a car boot sale !!
Title: Re: Freelance mill engine from Stuart castings.
Post by: steam guy willy on August 05, 2018, 04:39:11 PM
I have tried to use the motor as a generator but it only produces about 12 milliamps when turning ...It may need to revolve really fast as we were using an electric screw driver !! it has field windings and brushes  and runs on a 6 volt battery charger ok ,drawing about 4 amps. It perhaps needs some residual magnetism adding  (a magnet!!) or rewinding or something .......any ideas ?? It has also been painted. Also a mystery tool in the M.E.Workshop magazine.....I do have one with the top plate attached that works tolerably well !!
Title: Re: Freelance mill engine from Stuart castings.
Post by: Bluechip on August 05, 2018, 05:06:56 PM
S G W

If it's a series wound motor, looks like it, only 2 wires coming out of it, you need a load to drive some current. Even then it's going to be iffy.

If you just whizz it round with a voltmeter attached the meter is high resistance. Hence very small current through the field, hence very weak magnetic field strength, hence the miserable output.  Try it with a 12V 6W car lamp. That MIGHT make it work better, might not.

Can you get at the field winding connections? It may be possible to connect it as a shunt generator like they usually are. But if it's a series motor the windings may be a somewhat low resistance and a series dropper will be in order.

The fact you get some output suggests there is residual magnetism in the field

Dave

EDIT  OOPs sorry 12 milli AMPS ???   Ah! Different animal now  :headscratch:  On a current setting your meter should be a relatively low resistance ... Hmmmmmm   Dunno then  :shrug:

Title: Re: Freelance mill engine from Stuart castings.
Post by: Jo on August 05, 2018, 05:42:19 PM
Willy: It looks like a fairly standard thin piece vice the design for which was published in the Model Engineer Mag ::)

Jo
Title: Re: Freelance mill engine from Stuart castings.
Post by: Jasonb on August 05, 2018, 07:11:08 PM
Yes, that's what I told Neil it was before the mag was published, One of Tubal Cains that is also in his book.

Jo I seem to remember you got one from the Guildford club and posted a pic a few years back.
Title: Re: Freelance mill engine from Stuart castings.
Post by: Jo on August 05, 2018, 07:28:22 PM
I did, no one knew what it was, so I acquired it in one of those bargain boxes  :mischief: What can I say it is very useful  ;)

Jo
Title: Re: Freelance mill engine from Stuart castings.
Post by: steam guy willy on August 07, 2018, 03:07:27 AM
 Back to the engine the , the apertures are milled out of the sheaves. the holder has a grub screw to keep the sheaves from turning and they are held together with a rod. the slots are milled 7/32nd and the cutter is advanced 2 Thou for each rotation. The inner profile will be filed next.
Title: Re: Freelance mill engine from Stuart castings.
Post by: steam guy willy on August 10, 2018, 02:20:21 AM
The sheaves have been filled to shape and painted...the crosshead sliders have also been tidied up and are ready for painting...also looking at a article in ME from 1914 there is a series by George Gentry rebuilding a beam engine , he has made some drawings and given on of the threads as 9/64th whit or 4BA  i have never seen this side thread before but it must have existed !!
Title: Re: Freelance mill engine from Stuart castings.
Post by: steam guy willy on August 13, 2018, 01:21:59 AM
more painting...when i paint small areas i shake the tin and use the paint that is in the lid...this is to avoid too much paint getting into the brush. the brushes i use are the expensive Sable haired ones this brush has half the hairs removed to get even less paint in the brush... also after painting i put a plastic cover over the components to keep the dust off.
Title: Re: Freelance mill engine from Stuart castings.
Post by: gbritnell on August 13, 2018, 12:23:53 PM
Outstanding work so far! The painting at times is tedious but it adds so much to the engine.
gbritnell
Title: Re: Freelance mill engine from Stuart castings.
Post by: steam guy willy on August 16, 2018, 01:31:28 AM
[quote author=gbritnell
Outstanding work so far! The painting at times is tedious but it adds so much to the engine.
gbritnell

Thanks for that .. Now i have sorted out how to paint successfully i do find it quite easy and rewarding ... I used to make violins and cello's so have done a lot of varnishing in my time ...some views of the engine coming together and the latest part is the reversing lever assembly...
Title: Re: Freelance mill engine from Stuart castings.
Post by: steam guy willy on August 17, 2018, 02:13:47 AM
I have now been making the reversing lever cross shaft...this needed a square section on the end to engage with the lever. To make this quick and easy i drilled a hole in a pice of silver steel and filed a slot to the correct depth. the steel was then hardened and put into the tailstock chuck. the cross shaft was then held in the collet in the headstock and the flats were filed onto it turning the bull wheel around in the headstock. I have not seen this before and it was very quickly executed...
Title: Re: Freelance mill engine from Stuart castings.
Post by: steam guy willy on August 19, 2018, 01:58:27 AM
More work on the reversing levers , The lever housing is bolted  onto the base but is 'hanging' in the air so i will have to make an extra part so it does not look like it is hanging in mid air ,also the handle for operating the lever needs to be made .....the bolting down foot is a bit in the way so we shall see what happens...The motor does not seem to work as a dynamo so i shall have to consult this contemporary booklet to sort it out !! I also found a suitable spring from an old sewing machine with the attaching bends in the right orientation
Title: Re: Freelance mill engine from Stuart castings.
Post by: steam guy willy on August 20, 2018, 01:23:00 AM
I have repositioned the reversing lever assy so that it now sits more comfortably on the base. I had to file the frame part with a tapered rear part so it would not poke over the bottom flange part of the base. I have been using these screw plates to cot some threads as you don't need to continually change dies over. the Whitworth one includes a 9/32nd size. the threads are aranged in pairs though . Also a new extra deep hack saw from the car boot for £1 !!
Title: Re: Freelance mill engine from Stuart castings.
Post by: zeeprogrammer on August 20, 2018, 01:52:33 AM
I haven't said much...(I don't know what to say  ;D ) but I'm following along  :popcorn:
Title: Re: Freelance mill engine from Stuart castings.
Post by: steam guy willy on August 24, 2018, 01:14:50 AM
Hi Zee, thanks but you don't have to say anything....and in the model engineering world when things go wrong and get broken  its  "least said soonest mended " so another tool in the box !! :cheers:

so more work on the engine block...as this is a Stuart Turner item i have had to modify it quite a bit.....the recess are first filled with car filler and then filed to a curve . to accommodate the bolting faces for the brass bands a raising slab is screwed on . the recesses will be filled with filer and the block will be painted. The mahogany slats will be cut out and held in place with the bands......
Title: Re: Freelance mill engine from Stuart castings.
Post by: steam guy willy on August 24, 2018, 11:56:35 PM
I now need to get a good circular profile on the side of the engine to let the strakes sit comfortably. I have added a piece of copper and filed to profile using the buttons as before ..I have also attached the piece to bolt down the banding...there are so many dissimilar metals here i could probably illuminate an LED !!
Title: Re: Freelance mill engine from Stuart castings.
Post by: steam guy willy on August 26, 2018, 01:18:48 AM
The cylinder block is now undercoated and painted after the second coat the strakes will be attached..the mahogany is planed with one of my small violin planes....
Title: Re: Freelance mill engine from Stuart castings.
Post by: crueby on August 26, 2018, 02:11:18 AM
Nice!


I have some small planes like that, very handy, amazing how much they can remove with a lot of control.
Title: Re: Freelance mill engine from Stuart castings.
Post by: steam guy willy on September 04, 2018, 02:07:22 AM
I have been painting all the parts now and have put the strakes on the engine  so almost finished apart from all the tidying up and polishing the steel motion work and ............................
Title: Re: Freelance mill engine from Stuart castings.
Post by: crueby on September 04, 2018, 02:23:01 AM
Wow, that is looking great!  Love the color contrasts.

Title: Re: Freelance mill engine from Stuart castings.
Post by: sco on September 04, 2018, 05:08:09 AM
Nice paint job Willy - looks factory fresh and ready for work!

Simon.
Title: Re: Freelance mill engine from Stuart castings.
Post by: 10KPete on September 04, 2018, 07:50:40 AM
Beautiful!!

Pete
Title: Re: Freelance mill engine from Stuart castings.
Post by: Ye-Ole Steam Dude on September 04, 2018, 09:27:16 AM
Hello Willy,

Beautiful assembly and the paint scheme is perfect.

Have a great day,
Thomas
Title: Re: Freelance mill engine from Stuart castings.
Post by: steam guy willy on September 04, 2018, 11:35:47 PM
Hi All thanks for the comments ..it will look even better when everything is connected up !!
Title: Re: Freelance mill engine from Stuart castings.
Post by: steam guy willy on September 06, 2018, 02:33:55 PM
I have now been varnishing the base using a quick water based varnish   i prepare the wood by sanding with garnet paper. i start off with 80 grit and work down to 280 grit wetting the wood each ti me with water to lift the grain.The base is then varnished waiting a few hours between coats and sipping with a Tack Cloth to remove any dust that may have settled. I have also prepared the studs for the components ..I have used bolts with nuts inserted from underneath the base ..this is to get them the correct height . It is done this way because the bolts have the correct profile that will be showing ,the correct height above the nuts and washers. Also a view with the progress of fitting the engine parts. I will be going to Beeleigh mill this Saturday as part of the National Heritage W/E  showing off some of my engines to the General public !!
Title: Re: Freelance mill engine from Stuart castings.
Post by: zeeprogrammer on September 06, 2018, 03:10:00 PM
I will be going to Beeleigh mill this Saturday as part of the National Heritage W/E  showing off some of my engines to the General public !!

Enjoy and have fun. I wish I could be there.
Title: Re: Freelance mill engine from Stuart castings.
Post by: steam guy willy on September 06, 2018, 11:45:35 PM
Hi Zee, it will be good to catch up with the restoration to see how they are bringing the original extant engine back to life !! Making the motion work using my thin piece vice to file up the keys and polish up the eccentrics With the vice you can hold the work upright in the parallel bars as well as sideways
Title: Re: Freelance mill engine from Stuart castings.
Post by: steam guy willy on September 07, 2018, 03:02:40 AM
More assembly and the name plate has been made.........
Title: Re: Freelance mill engine from Stuart castings.
Post by: crueby on September 07, 2018, 03:13:54 AM
Your engine is s really looking great, and hope things are coming along as well at the mill!
Title: Re: Freelance mill engine from Stuart castings.
Post by: 10KPete on September 07, 2018, 03:26:55 AM
Wow, that's sure nice, Willy!

 :popcorn:

 :cheers:

Pete
Title: Re: Freelance mill engine from Stuart castings.
Post by: Craig DeShong on September 08, 2018, 02:23:32 AM
Looks GREAT!   :popcorn: :popcorn: :popcorn:
Title: Re: Freelance mill engine from Stuart castings.
Post by: steam guy willy on September 09, 2018, 11:19:31 PM
Hi All saw this at the carboot  today the chap said it was £700 ....so he went home with it . The engine was sort of lovely but the boiler and pipe work was a disaster !!...Do any of you casting experts know who the maker of this engine was ,assuming it is bought castings . As i don't recognise it can one give a date of manufacture also ...Jo ??
Title: Re: Freelance mill engine from Stuart castings.
Post by: steam guy willy on September 11, 2018, 03:57:58 AM
      the Engine is now painted and adjusted to run in both directions !! still more to do though !!
Title: Re: Freelance mill engine from Stuart castings.
Post by: MJM460 on September 11, 2018, 04:16:18 AM
Well done, Willy.  A beautiful engine and great to see it running.

Does the governor work properly to control the speed?

It's been quite a journey and fascinating to follow,might from the beginning.

MJM460
Title: Re: Freelance mill engine from Stuart castings.
Post by: Kim on September 11, 2018, 05:49:51 AM
I've been quietly following your build, and its nice to see a video of it running, Willy!
Kim
Title: Re: Freelance mill engine from Stuart castings.
Post by: Ye-Ole Steam Dude on September 11, 2018, 07:45:05 AM
Hi Willy,

Another beautiful build from you.

Have a great day,
Thomas
Title: Re: Freelance mill engine from Stuart castings.
Post by: crueby on September 11, 2018, 12:34:19 PM
Excellent!
Title: Re: Freelance mill engine from Stuart castings.
Post by: steam guy willy on September 11, 2018, 12:58:26 PM
Hi All, Thanks for the comments and I managed to finally get it going at 4am !! I had been trying to start it after taking it all apart and painting it ..but..put in the wrong slide valve !! I spent ages trying to adjust all the valve events ,then realised my mistake and after changing the valve she sprang into life !! After some time dismantling and mantling? it made me realise how important it is to make the engine with quick and easy access for maintenance work to be carried out !!  There is still a lot to do and yes the governor does need to be finished MJM    Also a quick question for you Why does heat rise ?? .I didn't manage to get to Beeleigh last week for the Heritage W/E but will be going this sunday. The engine is running with a compressor at the moment but will try it out on steam when it is completely finished.!!
Title: Re: Freelance mill engine from Stuart castings.
Post by: Don1966 on September 11, 2018, 07:53:43 PM
Nice work and fit and finish Willy! Nice looking setup...... :praise2:


 :cheers:
Don
Title: Re: Freelance mill engine from Stuart castings.
Post by: crueby on September 11, 2018, 08:15:28 PM
... also a quick question for you Why does heat rise ??


It doesn't, hot air/etc does since it expands, making it lighter per volume than it was.



Title: Re: Freelance mill engine from Stuart castings.
Post by: steam guy willy on September 11, 2018, 10:11:00 PM
... also a quick question for you Why does heat rise ??


It doesn't, hot air/etc does since it expands, making it lighter per volume than it was.





Hi Chris, yes the term hot air rises is true  and i suppose this is only true for liquids and gasses but not solids !! thinking about what happens in phase changes though ??
thanks

Willy
Title: Re: Freelance mill engine from Stuart castings.
Post by: MJM460 on September 12, 2018, 02:47:32 AM
Hi Willy, I think we have discussed the issue of heat rising before, so clearly we need some more words to convey the particular aspect you are puzzling over.  As Chris says, hot air rises, but it is not accurate to say heat rises.  The fundamental principal is that heat travels from high temperature to low temperature.  Up or down, that is, the effect of gravity is not relevant to heat flow.

You mentioned phase change, so do you mean boiling of a fluid, like water changing to steam?  Rather than hijack your engine thread with one of my normal long winded answers, I will go back and continue the thermodynamics thread, to keep all the similar topics together.

I am glad that you are continuing to get the governor working.  The part that always intrigues me about miniature governors is the friction at the gland of the throttle valve.  It is hard to know how to achieve sufficiently low friction for the tiny forces from the flyweights to operate.  But I am sure you will get there, so following with interest.

MJM460
Title: Re: Freelance mill engine from Stuart castings.
Post by: steam guy willy on September 14, 2018, 02:11:55 AM
Engine slowly coming together.....ready for Beeleigh...The dynamo is connected up and the governor linkage. the name plate is affixed and the base plate in place so just some oil pots to make and the reversing lever to do !! I will get a really good video made as well with proper lighting and  a diffuser lens as the gloss paint is a bit bright.......
Title: Re: Freelance mill engine from Stuart castings.
Post by: crueby on September 14, 2018, 02:18:23 AM
Very well done Willy!    :ThumbsUp: :ThumbsUp: :ThumbsUp: :ThumbsUp: :ThumbsUp:
Title: Re: Freelance mill engine from Stuart castings.
Post by: zeeprogrammer on September 14, 2018, 02:27:34 AM
I will get a really good video made

I'm looking forward to that!!  :ThumbsUp: Worth the wait too.
Title: Re: Freelance mill engine from Stuart castings.
Post by: steam guy willy on September 17, 2018, 11:00:57 PM
  This is the engine running on air at Beeleigh Mill..
Title: Re: Freelance mill engine from Stuart castings.
Post by: crueby on September 17, 2018, 11:06:54 PM
I love how smooth and stately it runs and sounds, very well done!


 :praise2:
Title: Re: Freelance mill engine from Stuart castings.
Post by: MJM460 on September 17, 2018, 11:26:16 PM
Beautiful, Willy.  Very elegant engine and great to see it running so well.

MJM460
Title: Re: Freelance mill engine from Stuart castings.
Post by: zeeprogrammer on September 17, 2018, 11:43:14 PM
 :ThumbsUp:

Beautiful. I really like seeing them run slow.
Title: Re: Freelance mill engine from Stuart castings.
Post by: steam guy willy on September 22, 2018, 05:43:10 PM
So the mill engine is virtually finished and i will be starting on the Bressingham Beam engine next ...This is an Eastons & Anderson  engine from 1870. here are a few pics of it and i will be starting a new thread for it ..........This has got a double valve arrangement with two eccentrics and i will have to read up about that !!

Willy
Title: Re: Freelance mill engine from Stuart castings.
Post by: crueby on September 22, 2018, 07:35:13 PM
Thats a great looking engine. Do you know yet why the double valve setup on it?
Title: Re: Freelance mill engine from Stuart castings.
Post by: steam guy willy on September 22, 2018, 08:15:16 PM
Hi Chris , Here they are...but i don't know how they work yet ?? Perhaps some one else knows.....i shall look in my books soon
Title: Re: Freelance mill engine from Stuart castings.
Post by: Jasonb on September 22, 2018, 08:20:41 PM
Looks a good Project, some detailed work in the parallel links.

Have a look for "Meyer expansion" valve gear

https://www.glasgowengineering.com.au/history/ringarooma-dredging-company
Title: Re: Freelance mill engine from Stuart castings.
Post by: steam guy willy on September 22, 2018, 08:45:43 PM
Hi Jason , thanks and have found this ....twill be fun making that  !! Arethere any builds on this site making an engine with this valve gear ??
Title: Re: Freelance mill engine from Stuart castings.
Post by: crueby on September 22, 2018, 08:49:30 PM
Very interesting setup!
Title: Re: Freelance mill engine from Stuart castings.
Post by: Jasonb on September 22, 2018, 08:54:14 PM
The E&A by anthony mount has this valve gear but he designed it with just one working eccentric driving a standard slide valve and that is what I did with mine. There was a Stuart Victorial done with it though again not sure if it was a dummy or real

https://stevewithnell.wordpress.com/2009/10/25/meyer-expansion-valve-gear/
Title: Re: Freelance mill engine from Stuart castings.
Post by: MJM460 on September 23, 2018, 11:10:26 AM
It will make a great model, Willy.  Worthy of your skill.

I am looking forward to seeing one with that complete expansion gear working, and seeing how it performs.

I will be following along.

MJM460
Title: Re: Freelance mill engine from Stuart castings.
Post by: Jasonb on September 23, 2018, 01:24:18 PM
Unless you are going to be running the engine on steam at a decent pressure and under load I doubt the effects of the Meter vales will be noticable, certainly not if you are just running on the usual couple of pounds of air. That is why I did not model it on my large size Easton & Anderson, just went with the two excentrics, rods and linkages but only one working.
Title: Re: Freelance mill engine from Stuart castings.
Post by: steam guy willy on September 23, 2018, 11:34:45 PM
Hi All, thanks for the comments and The construction should not be too difficult for the Meyer Valves....hopefully...
I will be starting the new thread soon..!!

Willy
Title: Re: Freelance mill engine from Stuart castings.
Post by: steam guy willy on September 24, 2018, 01:20:51 AM
I am now making the pins for the motion rods and fittings  I have to drill small holes in the silver steel rod. I have somewhere a jig for doing this but can't find it so have done this with my old drill press.....vis....This is for use with a 57 drill and should always be there !!!

willy
Title: Re: Freelance mill engine from Stuart castings.
Post by: scc on October 20, 2018, 10:13:10 PM
Only just seen the video of your mill engine........beautiful!  Very well done Willy.               Regards            Terry
Title: Re: Freelance mill engine from Stuart castings.
Post by: Zephyrin on October 21, 2018, 10:00:46 AM
Beautiful engine you have made Willy, nice and peaceful runner.
Thanks to share all these studies along this build.

I had a look at the Meyer distribution in a  old text book I have, a challenge only for the brave...

(http://mk1.ti1ca.com/rxtyumlr.jpg) (http://ti1ca.com/rxtyumlr-Distribution-Meyer-in-delaHarpe-Distribution-Meyer-in-delaHarpe.pdf.html)
Title: Re: Freelance mill engine from Stuart castings.
Post by: steam guy willy on October 23, 2018, 10:39:18 PM
The Norwich society have just had an exhibit at the forum for the local Science week half term event... here is our stall with some of my models... including the mill engine that is now finished ...I will be starting on the Easton and Anderson soon that is at Bressingham ....
Title: Re: Freelance mill engine from Stuart castings.
Post by: steam guy willy on October 23, 2018, 10:43:54 PM
More Models at the forum.......I also took my small lathe to demonstrate turning with the children ,and they took away soon pieces they had worked on.....untill the two electric cars started to blow the fuses and then melted the distribution panel in the building !!!
A good turn out by all the members and also a Maid Marion !!