Model Engine Maker

Engines => From Plans => Topic started by: 90LX_Notch on March 11, 2017, 10:39:17 PM

Title: 1st I.C. build "Tiny"
Post by: 90LX_Notch on March 11, 2017, 10:39:17 PM
This will be two firsts for me: a build thread and an internal combustion engine. 

It's Arv's original version of "Tiny"; it's a bit different then Bill and Dave's "Tiny" builds.  I didn't take a lot of pictures early on but will try to be better as I catch the this thread up to where I currently am.

I started with the fuel tank/base.  The pictures show the use of a mini pallet set on an angle in the vise.  A clamp was used as a datumn along the side and a button was used as the other datumn. This allowed  the part to be easily reset to machine the other end.

-Bob
Title: Re: 1st I.C. build "Tiny"
Post by: crueby on March 11, 2017, 10:47:28 PM
Cool! Another Tiny variant!

More popcorn needed....

 :popcorn:
Title: Re: 1st I.C. build "Tiny"
Post by: steamer on March 11, 2017, 11:04:30 PM
Watching along!

Dave
Title: Re: 1st I.C. build "Tiny"
Post by: b.lindsey on March 11, 2017, 11:32:52 PM
Great Bob. Glad to see yours too. We can give the monitor guys a run for their money. Now we just need two more to join the bandwagon  ;)

Bill
Title: Re: 1st I.C. build "Tiny"
Post by: 90LX_Notch on March 11, 2017, 11:54:12 PM
Chris, Dave and Bill thanks for tuning in.

Once the base/tank was finished I moved onto the frame.  It's pretty much straight up stuff.  My big concern was the bore of the caps and the bore for the cylinder.  These need to be perpindicular to each other.  My Benchmaster mill is old and worn and can't be trammed in Y.  Of course,  it is out of tram in that axis.  So, I made a plate to bolt the frame to, as well as a fixture block.  The frame and plate were bolted to the block and clamped to the faceplate of my lathe. 

I had previously center drilled the location for the bore and used what I call the floating center method to indicate the center drilled spot.  The floating center is where a center is placed inbetween the tailstock center and the work. This center is then indicated and the work is manipulated until the center runs true.

Once indicated the caps and frame were bored.  I had to use my boring head as a tool holder to be able to get the necessary reach.  Unfortunately, I only took after pictures.

-Bob*

*I appologize if this installment doesn't make sense or doesn't read well.  I'm throwing this together at half time of the Big East Tournament.  Go Nova!
Title: Re: 1st I.C. build "Tiny"
Post by: steamer on March 12, 2017, 12:13:46 AM
Old school!!!!!

Great machine porn!    Love it!!!

5 Bonus points for the gratuitous use of a face plate!   


No really .....I really love faceplates... 8)

Dave
Title: Re: 1st I.C. build "Tiny"
Post by: Dave Otto on March 12, 2017, 12:39:32 AM
I agree with Dave, great photos, interesting setups and cool machines!
I will be following along Bob, it's great to see a build come from your shop.

Dave
Title: Re: 1st I.C. build "Tiny"
Post by: b.lindsey on March 12, 2017, 12:49:29 AM
Its great to see different set-ups for similar operations Bob. NO doubt Dave will have some of his own to add to the mix too. Lots of ways to skin a cat   huh? (with apologies to cat lovers).

Bill
Title: Re: 1st I.C. build "Tiny"
Post by: crueby on March 12, 2017, 01:09:20 AM
Its great to see different set-ups for similar operations Bob. NO doubt Dave will have some of his own to add to the mix too. Lots of ways to skin a cat   huh? (with apologies to cat lovers).

Bill
Our dog is a cat lover.


Especially with catsup!
Title: Re: 1st I.C. build "Tiny"
Post by: 90LX_Notch on March 12, 2017, 01:51:18 AM
Dave- Yes faceplates are our friends.  A post that you made years ago, for I think it was the "Seal", actually got me into using a faceplate.  That plate in the pictures was a giant project in itself. I had to make tooling and gages just to make it from a rough machined 8" backplate. My Rivett has an odd thread size (2 1/16 -10).

I agree with Dave, great photos, interesting setups and cool machines!
I will be following along Bob, it's great to see a build come from your shop.

Dave

Thanks Dave I very much appreciate that coming from you.


Yes Bill, that's what makes machining so great.  So many paths to the same place.

-Bob
Title: Re: 1st I.C. build "Tiny"
Post by: 90LX_Notch on March 12, 2017, 02:13:11 AM
With the crank bore done the next task was the bore for the cylinder that goes through the water tank.

The first picture shows the center spot being drilled for the cylinder bore location.

I try to make as much of my tooling as universal as I can.  When I made the block mentioned above I made it with hole patterns that matched my mini pallet.  One set of holes are through holes that allow it to be bolted to the pallet.  Two of the sides are ground parallel and the third is ground perpicular to them.  When bolted to the pallet it creates an angle plate that I can clamp to the faceplate.

A bar was inserted into the crank bore and Jo Blocks were used to set the frame parallel to the faceplate.  The bar was then indicated to verify that it was indeed parallel and the frame was clamped tight and rechecked.

Next the center spot was indicated using the floating center method and the mini pallet and block were tapped until the center was indicated true.  The holes were then bored.

-Bob
Title: Re: 1st I.C. build "Tiny"
Post by: Walsheng on March 12, 2017, 02:41:05 AM
Some great setups you have come up with.
I am really enjoying the "tiny" builds going on and one is definitely in my furure.
Has anyone thought of making one from cast iron?

John
Title: Re: 1st I.C. build "Tiny"
Post by: 90LX_Notch on March 12, 2017, 02:59:26 AM
Thanks John great to have you along.  I don't see why the whole thing coudn't be done in cast iron.  I know George uses a lot of cast iron.  The head for mine is cast iron.

-Bob
Title: Re: 1st I.C. build "Tiny"
Post by: Flyboy Jim on March 12, 2017, 03:10:40 AM
Some interesting setups here. I like that lathe fixture plate. Gives me an idea for machining the flywheels for my P & W build.

Jim
Title: Re: 1st I.C. build "Tiny"
Post by: steamer on March 12, 2017, 10:38:14 AM
Hey Dave Otto....when the flaking is still showing under the spindle nose on a 100 year old lathe...you know it wasn't used much....

That's a real Gem Bob....I'm so glad you found that.

NOPE   it was the oil pump on the Wallaby....my lathe is a bit bigger, but no where near as nice as a 608!

Similar faceplate though.   I really like the threaded hole face plate.   It's easier to set up on.   and a heavy faceplate that's rigid is a joy to work with.   I have a big one and small one on Samantha Bell, the small one has a dedicated pin hole directly on center for a centering pin.    Good stuff!    But OLD SCHOOL....but my shop is my own.

And....for you blokes across the pond who don't know what a Rivett 608 is.....

http://www.lathes.co.uk/rivett/page2.html

There aren't enough superlatives on the planet to describe one........


Dave
Title: Re: 1st I.C. build "Tiny"
Post by: zeeprogrammer on March 12, 2017, 01:05:44 PM
Catching up. Nice stuff Bob.

I've not used a faceplate before so I'm always interested in seeing how people use them.
Title: Re: 1st I.C. build "Tiny"
Post by: 90LX_Notch on March 12, 2017, 01:48:15 PM
Thanks Jim and Carl.  A faceplate can really allow you to do some interesting stuff.  It's is a very versatile accessory that is often over looked.

Next up was the radius at the back of the frame.  Just prior to this point I discovered a major mistake.  When I milled the slots for the bearing caps I somehow forgot to offset .100 for the edge finder  So, the crank bores are off by .100.  (I think I can shorten  the connecting rod as a fix.  If not I will have to remake the frame.)  The radius was the only thing left to complete the frame so I forged on.

The center point for the radius was lightly scribed on the frame.  I had left the pallet on the lathe because it was set for the centerline of the crank bore. I just had to shim the frame up and move it over to align with the scribe mark.  With the frame aligned, a Dremel flexshaft was setup in the tool post.  Light cuts were made and the faceplate was rotated by hand in small increments until the radius was complete.  This is a link from years ago that includes a video link on using this technique:  http://www.modelenginemaker.com/index.php/topic,319.msg1916.html#msg1916

When set up right, this technique yields great results.


-Bob
Title: Re: 1st I.C. build "Tiny"
Post by: 90LX_Notch on March 12, 2017, 04:16:51 PM
Onto the head.

It is simple turning for the basic shape of the head.  Things get fun locating the pockets, guides and spark plug hole on the .375 dia.

First up was to mount the head on the mini pallet and spot the valve guides/pockets and spark plug hole.  The pallet was then setup on the faceplate and the first spot was indicated.  I drilled the pocket undersize and close to depth.  This was about two weeks before Christmas and life got busy.  Around 10 weeks later I picked back up.  Here's where I learned that I should leave notes if something is going to sit or at least review everything.  I fired up the lathe and drilled through.  This was with a .106 bit.  The guides are supposed to be .094. 

No problem just make one larger diameter valve.  Wrong!  I placed a .106 pin in the hole and ran the lathe to check if the guide hole was straight.  To say the drill wandered is understatement.  The whole reason for drilling the pocket undersize was so that I could bore the pocket to .136.  I wound up boring the .136 through the head as part a plan to save the head.  I then moved on to the other pocket and successfuly bored the pocket and drilled/reamed the guide.  The .094 pin ran true for that guide.

The save.... I turned up and pressed a piece of bronze into the .136 through hole of the messed up guide.  I then made a transfer punch that fit the valve pocket and used it to make a spot on the bronze.  The head was remounted and the pocket was indicated.  The guide was then drilled/reamed and luckily ran true.

-Bob
Title: Re: 1st I.C. build "Tiny"
Post by: Kim on March 12, 2017, 09:20:31 PM
Sounds like a great save there, Bob.
When I look at that last photo, I can't see the pressed in piece at all! :)
Kim
Title: Re: 1st I.C. build "Tiny"
Post by: steamer on March 13, 2017, 12:11:43 AM
Lovely tool porn....keep the pictures going!
Dave
Title: Re: 1st I.C. build "Tiny"
Post by: steamer on March 13, 2017, 12:14:08 AM
Hey Bob! Who's boring bars are those?

NICE!

Dave
Title: Re: 1st I.C. build "Tiny"
Post by: 90LX_Notch on March 13, 2017, 12:21:52 AM
Thanks Kim.  You can see the saved guide in the picture below.

Will do Dave.  They are real old carbide bars that I got in a trade.  If you watch Adam Booth's YouTube channel, his friend Gil picked up an old Gerstner a couple of years ago and these were in it.  He posted on Practical Machinist that he was looking to do a trade for them.  They were right up my alley so I traded some endmills that were to large for what I do.


The Head continued:

 Next up was the spark plug hole.  It is a compound angle of ten degrees in two planes.  The first angle was set using a protractor and the small toolmaker's vice that I picked up at Cabin Fever this year.  Years ago when I first got into all of this I made a 2.5" sine bar based on a thread Tel did.  I made it from aluminum because that was all that I could buy locally at the time. It gets the job done.  Anyhow, I used an adjustable parallel to set it. (Great tip from Tom Lipton's YouTube channel.)

The toolmaker's vice and sine bar were then set up in the mill and the spot was picked up for the spark plug hole.  The .125 hole was drilled and reamed.  The head was then turned over in the toolmaker's vice and the compound angle was reset.  The hole was then indicated and the spark plug threads were done along with the counter bore.

-Bob
Title: Re: 1st I.C. build "Tiny"
Post by: Dave Otto on March 13, 2017, 12:37:15 AM
Looks great Bob, I really enjoy seeing your setups.


Dave
Title: Re: 1st I.C. build "Tiny"
Post by: 90LX_Notch on March 14, 2017, 12:02:35 AM
Thanks Dave.  The setups are little much but it's the only way that I can get good geometry.


Head continued:

With the spark plug hole done I moved on to the valve seats.  Having never been down this road, I was nervous.  I made a seat cutter the way that George does except that I made it as a D-bit.  The tool did it's job and the seats were cut.

-Bob
Title: Re: 1st I.C. build "Tiny"
Post by: steamer on March 14, 2017, 12:10:53 AM
Thanks Dave.  The setups are little much but it's the only way that I can get good geometry.

-Bob

If that what it took to get good geometry...then the set up was right!.....   Looking good!

I like that tool!    I've left my valve seats dead sharp for now, and I'll lap the valves in with rubbing compound later....

Dave
Title: Re: 1st I.C. build "Tiny"
Post by: b.lindsey on March 14, 2017, 12:33:56 AM
Nicely done Bob, I am watching you guys for pointers :)

Bill
Title: Re: 1st I.C. build "Tiny"
Post by: steamer on March 14, 2017, 12:36:31 AM
Follow bob!    I'll be the poster child for how not to do it.

LMAO! :lolb:

Dave
Title: Re: 1st I.C. build "Tiny"
Post by: 90LX_Notch on March 14, 2017, 12:48:06 AM
Whoa! Don't follow me.  This is my first IC rodeo.  I think I did alright with the valves, but.....  It has to run inorder to prove them.  That's a long, long ways off.

-Bob
Title: Re: 1st I.C. build "Tiny"
Post by: rudydubya on March 14, 2017, 06:15:09 AM
Hey, I'm following along with all you guys.  In bystander mode.  This is great fun!

Regards,
Rudy
Title: Re: 1st I.C. build "Tiny"
Post by: zeeprogrammer on March 14, 2017, 12:53:38 PM
Nicely done.  :ThumbsUp:

Great pic of the D-bit. That was interesting.
Title: Re: 1st I.C. build "Tiny"
Post by: 90LX_Notch on March 16, 2017, 07:53:50 PM
Thanks for folowing along Rudy.

Thanks Carl. The picture is a little distorted and shows a radius that does not exist at the transition from the valve pocket diameter to the 45 degree angle. 



Head continued:

To locate the ports a .136 pin was inserted in the valve pocket.  The pin was then pickedup with the edge finder and the center of the pocket was zeroed.  From there the mill was stepped of to the hole location.  This was straight forward for the intake because it is located off of the flat on the head.  The exhaust was a bit more difficult.  It is at an unspecified angle which I determined to be 45 degrees.  The little sine bar was used.  It is wider then the head so I used a trick that I picked up from Joe Pie's YouTube channel.  Two parallels were set with a spring inbetween them and a "bridge" was made from a third.  The "bridge is what applies the clamping force to part.

There was a lot going on for the setup as the pictures show: sine bar, vise stop, parallels, spring and the "bridge".

-Bob
Title: Re: 1st I.C. build "Tiny"
Post by: b.lindsey on March 16, 2017, 08:22:37 PM
Guess I need to get to work on my head, you guys are giving me some useful ideas though.

Bill
Title: Re: 1st I.C. build "Tiny"
Post by: crueby on March 16, 2017, 08:53:08 PM
You guys need to get together when the engines are done, get some couplers made to tie the cranks together in a line, and make a multi-cylinder Tiny!

Awesome stuff, all you guys!

 :popcorn:
Title: Re: 1st I.C. build "Tiny"
Post by: 90LX_Notch on March 18, 2017, 02:20:47 AM
Bill the head isn't as bad as it seems.

That would be neat Chris.


Valves:

The valves were turned and cross drilled.  To make drilling small rods/shafts easier I setup scrap aluminum and mill it flat.  Then I drill and tap a hole for a hold down clamp.  Next I make a V groove using a center drill as a cutter.  The part is then layed in the groove and clamped securely, this guarantees alignment.  Then the hole is located and drilled.  I use scraps of plastic gift cards as packing.  That is what the green object is in the picture..

The valves were lightly lapped in the head.  The dark ring on the valve shows a good pattern and location.

A test fixture was made out of 1" aluminumn bar.  An adapter was also made that screws into the head.  It allows vaccuum or compressed air to be used for testing the head.

-Bob
Title: Re: 1st I.C. build "Tiny"
Post by: steamer on March 18, 2017, 11:25:42 AM
I really like the fact that your testing that!.....Hmmmmmm   

And to Bob's point, no the head isn't as bad as it seems.   The valves themselves were more challenging I thought.

Dave
Title: Re: 1st I.C. build "Tiny"
Post by: 90LX_Notch on March 20, 2017, 01:25:20 PM
Thanks Dave.  It's the only way that I can verify if I am even close.


Springs and Keepers:

The springs were wound using .014 wire.  I played around with different mandrels and pitches.  In the end I  believe that I am close.  My spring works. It opens the valve at less than 10 in/mg.  However, thanks to George's post in Dave's thread, I am going to get thinner wire and make a lighter intake spring.
 
The keepers are basic turning.  The pins are .029 music wire by .125 long.  To get the .125 length, the pins are held in a pinvise and gently sanded down.

-Bob
Title: Re: 1st I.C. build "Tiny"
Post by: b.lindsey on March 20, 2017, 02:23:09 PM
Bob, the springs look really good, but you may be right, the intake may be a bit stiff. I also like the chamfer you put on the top of the keepers, that looks nice!!

Bill
Title: Re: 1st I.C. build "Tiny"
Post by: Don1966 on March 20, 2017, 03:44:01 PM
Geeez Bob, I been behind following everyone buddy but just caught up on your's. Some nice work bud and will try to stay up now.

Don
Title: Re: 1st I.C. build "Tiny"
Post by: gbritnell on March 20, 2017, 04:17:37 PM
Bob, the problem with the same size springs is first of all say they were light enough for the vacuum in the cylinder to open the intake, well then it would also open the exhaust. I don't really know if there's any kind of ratio but I always make the intake spring just heavy enough to close the valve efficiently.
gbritnell
Title: Re: 1st I.C. build "Tiny"
Post by: 90LX_Notch on March 20, 2017, 04:53:19 PM
Thanks Bill.  The keeper actually has a radius, not a chamfer.  I thought it would make for a nice detail.

Great to have you along Don.

George, you correct and thank you for your input.  However, the springs are not the same.  I played with different mandrels and pitches that resulted with different rate springs.  This was the big reason that I made the test fixture.  I made sure that the exhaust spring did not open when vaccuum was applied through the spark plug hole.  That being said, I do need to get my hands on some .009 wire and make a lighter spring.

-Bob
Title: Re: 1st I.C. build "Tiny"
Post by: 90LX_Notch on March 20, 2017, 05:09:36 PM
Follower:

I took a different approach in making the follower.  I decided to carve it out of a piece of 1" round stock.  The stock was offset in the lathe and the .156 hole was drilled and reamed.  The .015 step was also turned at that time.

Next the stock was placed in a Vblock and setup on the rotary table.  The .156 hole was indicated and the first side was milled followed by the second side. 

The part calls for a .062 radius so a D-Bit was was made.  I did sink a pilot hole with a .040 center drill just to play it safe.  The cutter in the end did work.  I did shoot a video with my IPad and posted it to YouTube of the cutter working.  Unfortunately, the IPad is unable to zoom in tight.

_sUuI9qVEsk
-Bob
Title: Re: 1st I.C. build "Tiny"
Post by: b.lindsey on March 20, 2017, 05:22:05 PM
That follower looks fantastic Bob. You are moving right along and its nice to see different ways of getting to the same end result.

Bill
Title: Re: 1st I.C. build "Tiny"
Post by: 90LX_Notch on March 20, 2017, 11:50:29 PM
Thanks Bill.  Not really moving along, just getting all the pictures into the thread.  Soon I will be caught up and then my snail's pace will become evident.


Follower Bolt:

Nothing really special involved with the bolt so I only have a picture of the finished part.


-Bob
Title: Re: 1st I.C. build "Tiny"
Post by: Dave Otto on March 21, 2017, 12:07:57 AM
Nicely done Bob!
The follower turned out great.

I'm enjoying following along with all three of the Tiny builds.


Dave
Title: Re: 1st I.C. build "Tiny"
Post by: Tennessee Whiskey on March 21, 2017, 12:13:53 AM
I was thinking just what Dave said. Really nice Bob. Is that a piece of step tread from a doll house the bolt is laying on? :Jester:

Eric
Title: Re: 1st I.C. build "Tiny"
Post by: steamer on March 21, 2017, 01:38:15 AM
Looking good Bob!     maybe this week....was going to go out in the shop tonight, but my daughter wanted to  watch a movie with me.

Dave
Title: Re: 1st I.C. build "Tiny"
Post by: Flyboy Jim on March 21, 2017, 02:27:44 AM
That follower looks fantastic Bob. You are moving right along and its nice to see different ways of getting to the same end result.

Bill

You got that right Bill. Both of you guys followers came out great! Being pretty new at all this, I always learn a lot seeing how others machine parts and use that knowledge to come up with the way I'd do it with the skills and tooling I have. For me, I think that is one of the really fun parts of machining.  :)

Jim
Title: Re: 1st I.C. build "Tiny"
Post by: 10KPete on March 21, 2017, 02:36:35 AM
I agree with comments made by others here. This is great fun watching three of these builds going on. Especially when a Benchmaster is used!  :cheers:

Pete
Title: Re: 1st I.C. build "Tiny"
Post by: 90LX_Notch on March 21, 2017, 01:37:21 PM
Thanks gentlemen.  The comments are greatly appreciated.

There is a lot of handwork in that follower. The Benchmaster is a tired old machine and I forgot to snug the lock to add some drag on the x axis.  The second side looked like a chipmunk had gnawed on it.  Also, I should have milled the waste away first, rather than machining it as two slots. 

I know how that goes Dave.  Family first.  Saturday I was on a roll in the shop when my wife came to me and suggested that we go out to dinner.  We had such a nice time out.  Well worth it. 

-Bob
Title: Re: 1st I.C. build "Tiny"
Post by: zeeprogrammer on March 21, 2017, 09:20:52 PM
Family first.  Saturday I was on a roll in the shop when my wife came to me and suggested that we go out to dinner.  We had such a nice time out.  Well worth it. 

 :ThumbsUp:

We can wait.

For a little while.
Title: Re: 1st I.C. build "Tiny"
Post by: 90LX_Notch on March 22, 2017, 04:40:41 PM
I can't in good conscious let Carl wait long.


The Rocker Arm:

I like George's rocker arm much better than the original design so I decided to go with it.

I started with a 3/8 bar of steel and set it up in the Spin Index.  The bar was milled .100x.160 by about an inch long.  George's design calls for a .375 radius.  This was problematic because I don't have a 3/4" endmill.  To overcome this, a 1/2" endmill was placed in the boring head and offset .125.  This setup gave me the necessary .375 radius.  The cut was done as a plunge.  It is important to note that the end of the bar is clamped against a jack with a toe clamp.  This was to keep the bar from flexing or moving.

-Bob
Title: Re: 1st I.C. build "Tiny"
Post by: 90LX_Notch on March 25, 2017, 04:07:21 PM
Rocker Arm continued:

With the first .375 radius cut the part was indexed 180 degrees and the second .375 radius was cut.  Next the .250 radii were cut with a 1/2 endmill respectively.  The part was then indexed and the 0-80 hole was drilled and tapped.

The part was then cut from the parent bar and fixture was made.  The fixture is just a piece of brass that a .062 diameter pip was turned on.  The chuck was unthreaded from the lathe (Atlas 618) and moved to the drillpress where the rocker arm was placed on the pip and used to spot a 0-80 tapped hole.

The chuck was then threaded back onto the lathe and the bosses were faced onto the rocker arm by simply repositioning each hole on the pip.

-Bob
Title: Re: 1st I.C. build "Tiny"
Post by: b.lindsey on March 25, 2017, 08:26:45 PM
Looks good Bob, still following along here but not much shop time this week.

Bill
Title: Re: 1st I.C. build "Tiny"
Post by: Dave Otto on March 26, 2017, 12:21:22 AM
Hi Bob

Nice set ups and machining on the rocker arm! Wow that is a fussy little part.



Dave
Title: Re: 1st I.C. build "Tiny"
Post by: 90LX_Notch on March 26, 2017, 12:36:41 AM
Thanks for staying with me Bill.  Looking forward to your next update.

Thanks Dave.  It's a deceptively challenging part.

-Bob
Title: Re: 1st I.C. build "Tiny"
Post by: 90LX_Notch on March 26, 2017, 05:43:51 PM
Rocker Arm continued:

Once the bosses were turned I cleaned up what little material was left on the sides in the mill.  Then the hand work began.  Trust me when I tell you, there is a lot filing and sanding in the finished part.  I'll have to make a more suitable screw for it.  The cheesey hardware store Philips head just doesn't cut it.

-Bob
Title: Re: 1st I.C. build "Tiny"
Post by: steamer on March 26, 2017, 06:18:46 PM
Sweeeeet!

Dave
Title: Re: 1st I.C. build "Tiny"
Post by: Don1966 on March 26, 2017, 06:19:22 PM
Looking good Bob and we know about small parts and the time involved in making them look like you want them. Your doing a great job of it...... :praise2:

Don
Title: Re: 1st I.C. build "Tiny"
Post by: Tennessee Whiskey on March 26, 2017, 07:47:47 PM
Beautiful rocker. I've seen several full sized engines with a "slotted head stud" , locking nut, and rounded profile on the other end.

Eric
Title: Re: 1st I.C. build "Tiny"
Post by: 90LX_Notch on March 26, 2017, 08:11:47 PM
Thanks guys, much appreciated.

Eric you described exactly to a "tee" what I have in mind.

-Bob
Title: Re: 1st I.C. build "Tiny"
Post by: b.lindsey on March 26, 2017, 10:24:10 PM
That sure looks the part Bob, nicely done!!

Bill
Title: Re: 1st I.C. build "Tiny"
Post by: 90LX_Notch on March 27, 2017, 05:40:04 PM
Thanks Bill.

Half way there Eric.  I chucked up a piece of mystery metal, turned and threaded it 0-80.  It was then slotted with a .014 slitting saw.  Next it was cut to length and threaded into a bar with a 0-80 hole in the lathe so the nose could be rounded over.  A file was used to form the radius.

The nut is next on the agenda.

-Bob
Title: Re: 1st I.C. build "Tiny"
Post by: b.lindsey on March 27, 2017, 06:21:59 PM
OH yeah!!! That looks very nice Bob. You are getting fancy :)

Bill
Title: Re: 1st I.C. build "Tiny"
Post by: 90LX_Notch on March 27, 2017, 07:28:53 PM
OH yeah!!! That looks very nice Bob. You are getting fancy :)

Bill

This way if the engine doesn't run, it will at least look nice as a static model.

-Bob
Title: Re: 1st I.C. build "Tiny"
Post by: Tennessee Whiskey on March 27, 2017, 08:22:35 PM
That's the one for Dolly  :mischief:. Saweeeet

Eric
Title: Re: 1st I.C. build "Tiny"
Post by: Don1966 on March 27, 2017, 08:36:09 PM
OH yeah!!! That looks very nice Bob. You are getting fancy :)

Bill

This way if the engine doesn't run, it will at least look nice as a static model.

-Bob
Oh come on Bob not defeated before we start! Look at on the positive note, yeah it's going to run if it kills me. Much better outlook don't you think?   :stickpoke:

Don
Title: Re: 1st I.C. build "Tiny"
Post by: 90LX_Notch on March 27, 2017, 08:53:22 PM
Thanks for the nod Eric.

OH yeah!!! That looks very nice Bob. You are getting fancy :)

Bill

This way if the engine doesn't run, it will at least look nice as a static model.

-Bob
Oh come on Bob not defeated before we start! Look at on the positive note, yeah it's going to run if it kills me. Much better outlook don't you think?   :stickpoke:

Don

Not defeated at all Don.  I'm definitely not the surrender type.  I usually "crank it up a notch" when things don't go right and keep trying.

-Bob
Title: Re: 1st I.C. build "Tiny"
Post by: zeeprogrammer on March 27, 2017, 11:08:52 PM
I enlarged your 2nd photo for a better look. Wow. Nice!!
Title: Re: 1st I.C. build "Tiny"
Post by: Walsheng on March 27, 2017, 11:16:45 PM
That 0-80 screw puts in perspective...WOW, that looks nice.
Did you finish it under a microscope?

John
Title: Re: 1st I.C. build "Tiny"
Post by: steamer on March 27, 2017, 11:58:00 PM
You're setting the bar Bob!    :ThumbsUp: :ThumbsUp: :ThumbsUp:

Dave
Title: Re: 1st I.C. build "Tiny"
Post by: 90LX_Notch on March 28, 2017, 01:14:44 AM
Thanks guys.  I did not use a microscope.  I tried to use a magnifying glass but I couldn't get use to my depth perception being different.  My vision up close isn't as good as it use to be; luckily, I can still see enough detail to get by.  I'm not raising any bar.  The bar was set by George and is wayout of my reach. 

-Bob
Title: Re: 1st I.C. build "Tiny"
Post by: gbritnell on March 28, 2017, 01:53:36 AM
Hi Bob,
I've been using a headband magnifier for years. Even if you can see a part it just makes it so much easier to work on the details. I use the strongest lens which doesn't give much depth of field but it works fine.
gbritnell
Title: Re: 1st I.C. build "Tiny"
Post by: steamer on March 28, 2017, 01:57:31 AM
I can't do anything small in the shop without my Optivisor.    Love it.

Dave
Title: Re: 1st I.C. build "Tiny"
Post by: 90LX_Notch on March 28, 2017, 02:42:30 AM
George and Dave, can that type of magnifier be used with eyeglasses?  If not, can each eye be adjusted to balance the lens?

-Bob
Title: Re: 1st I.C. build "Tiny"
Post by: crueby on March 28, 2017, 02:44:15 AM
I use an optivisor too, fits over my glasses just fine. It has a headband to hold it, and it pivots down in front of your glasses. Not sure how many models they have, mine has interchangeable lenses for different magnifications. Very handy.
Title: Re: 1st I.C. build "Tiny"
Post by: 10KPete on March 28, 2017, 02:45:34 AM
I use three different strengths of OptiVisor. Have for years now! Can't see anything close up without them. They work very well with bi-focals.....

Pete
Title: Re: 1st I.C. build "Tiny"
Post by: steamer on March 28, 2017, 02:45:43 AM
Bob

Yes!...     just get them!
Title: Re: 1st I.C. build "Tiny"
Post by: Flyboy Jim on March 28, 2017, 03:14:52 AM
I use an optivisor too, fits over my glasses just fine. It has a headband to hold it, and it pivots down in front of your glasses. Not sure how many models they have, mine has interchangeable lenses for different magnifications. Very handy.

Which one do you have Chris? So far I've gotten by with a handheld magnifying glass, but would like to get an optivisor. I have the same issue of needing it to go over my glasses.

Jim
Title: Re: 1st I.C. build "Tiny"
Post by: steamer on March 28, 2017, 03:20:45 AM
Donegan Optivisor.   I have the #5 insert which puts the focal point at 8" or so

https://www.amazon.com/s/?ie=UTF8&keywords=donegan+optivisor&tag=mh0b-20&index=aps&hvadid=78408926830228&hvqmt=e&hvbmt=bp&hvdev=c&ref=pd_sl_7wzt1vso4r_p

Dave
Title: Re: 1st I.C. build "Tiny"
Post by: crueby on March 28, 2017, 03:28:56 AM
I use an optivisor too, fits over my glasses just fine. It has a headband to hold it, and it pivots down in front of your glasses. Not sure how many models they have, mine has interchangeable lenses for different magnifications. Very handy.

Which one do you have Chris? So far I've gotten by with a handheld magnifying glass, but would like to get an optivisor. I have the same issue of needing it to go over my glasses.

Jim
I have two different ones, different brands, one has interchangeable lenses, which is a must since the stronger magnification usually also has a shorter focus distance. I got them decades ago for scrimshaw work, come in handy for other work too. Being nearsighted has come i handy since for some work I just take the glasses off.
Mine are so old that I doubt the model numbers would help, probably changed by now. Main features to look for: adjustable headband, range of magnification, focus distance, ability to swing up the front to look at other things. Lights on them are not worth bothering with.
If you have a store like woodcraft locally, they carry several. Jewelry tool suppliers have them too.
Title: Re: 1st I.C. build "Tiny"
Post by: Flyboy Jim on March 28, 2017, 03:55:33 AM
Thanks for the info Dave and Chris. I'll get one ordered. Either that or I'll just buy a bigger lathe and mill and build bigger engines!  :lolb:

Jim
Title: Re: 1st I.C. build "Tiny"
Post by: 90LX_Notch on March 28, 2017, 04:04:05 AM
Wow.  The consensus is that these work well.  I'll have to get a pair.  Thanks everyone.

-Bob
Title: Re: 1st I.C. build "Tiny"
Post by: b.lindsey on March 28, 2017, 12:01:22 PM
I can only reflect the sentiments of others...they work well...normally I take my bifocals off when wearing them but they certainly can be used with glasses as well.

Bill
Title: Re: 1st I.C. build "Tiny"
Post by: 90LX_Notch on March 28, 2017, 06:13:20 PM
I'm a nut!


Rocker Arm Jam Nut:

I used the same piece of mystery metal to make the jam nut for the rocker arm stud.  I chucked it in a drill chuck that has a 3/8 shank in the lathe.  It was faced, drilled and tapped 0-80.  Then it was turned to .100 OD.  Next the drill chuck was moved to the Spin Indexer and the flats were cut until it "looked right".  Then it was back to the lathe to add a chamfer and partoff.  (I decided to make it with an integral washer.)

I don't know if I like the integral washer.  I have enough left on the bar to make a plain jam nut.

What do you think? 

-Bob
Title: Re: 1st I.C. build "Tiny"
Post by: crueby on March 28, 2017, 06:22:38 PM
Maybe just thin the washer portion down a touch?
Title: Re: 1st I.C. build "Tiny"
Post by: Tennessee Whiskey on March 28, 2017, 06:34:08 PM
I like the looks of that Bob, but, I think the originals were a thin nut, even thinner than a standard one

Eric
Title: Re: 1st I.C. build "Tiny"
Post by: 90LX_Notch on March 28, 2017, 08:01:12 PM
Agreed Chris.

Yeah I know Eric; jam nuts are usually around half the width of regular nuts.  My concern is that this nut has to be functional because it will play a part in adjusting the engine.  Therefore, it will probably be loosened and tightened a few times, which will make it prone to the wrench slipping and hurting it.  That was the main reason for the integral washer.  To help prevent the wrench from slipping.

After thinking about it.  I have an idea for wrench that should reduce the chance of slipping.  I have to see how feasible it is.  In the mean time I'm going to knockout a "proper" jam nut.

-Bob
Title: Re: 1st I.C. build "Tiny"
Post by: b.lindsey on March 28, 2017, 09:03:23 PM
The pictures make it look huge Bob. I know from looking at the 0-80 hex nuts I have on hand just how small they are. It certainly doesn't look that out of proportion to me though, and as you say it is functional so that has to be a consideration too.

Bill
Title: Re: 1st I.C. build "Tiny"
Post by: 90LX_Notch on March 28, 2017, 10:06:30 PM
The pictures make it look huge Bob. I know from looking at the 0-80 hex nuts I have on hand just how small they are. It certainly doesn't look that out of proportion to me though, and as you say it is functional so that has to be a consideration too.

Bill

True Bill. 

-Bob
Title: Re: 1st I.C. build "Tiny"
Post by: crueby on March 28, 2017, 10:33:12 PM
The pictures make it look huge Bob. I know from looking at the 0-80 hex nuts I have on hand just how small they are. It certainly doesn't look that out of proportion to me though, and as you say it is functional so that has to be a consideration too.

Bill

True Bill. 

-Bob
That's how they make the crunchy m&ms?!?!
Title: Re: 1st I.C. build "Tiny"
Post by: b.lindsey on March 28, 2017, 11:09:20 PM
Yep, 0-80 flange nuts Chris. You best have some good teeth too  :lolb:

Bill
Title: Re: 1st I.C. build "Tiny"
Post by: 90LX_Notch on March 28, 2017, 11:31:08 PM
That is a "Limited Edition Extra Crunch" M&M only available until April 1.
Title: Re: 1st I.C. build "Tiny"
Post by: Walsheng on March 29, 2017, 12:38:33 AM
Here are a couple of pictures of full size rocker arms.  I don't see that either one has a washer but I'm sure some do.
I like the looks of the nut with the washer and yours is just a bit smaller!

John
Title: Re: 1st I.C. build "Tiny"
Post by: 90LX_Notch on March 29, 2017, 05:10:16 PM
Thanks John; the pictures were helpful.

I'm going to call this nut good.  It's .032 thick, .080 across the flats.

-Bob
Title: Re: 1st I.C. build "Tiny"
Post by: gbritnell on March 29, 2017, 07:45:25 PM
The whole thing looks great Bob. I'm anxiously awaiting your and Bill's first pops.
gbritnell
Title: Re: 1st I.C. build "Tiny"
Post by: Tennessee Whiskey on March 29, 2017, 08:42:52 PM
Looks good it does, but, I was about to say, I wished GM and Ford had used your style nut when I was learning how to adjust valves. The wrench bouncing off of those thin jam nuts was bad, but, I remember keeping the screwdriver in the slot was tricky also. I remember watching an old mechanic, you know, non filter cig hanging out the corner of his mouth type , and he wasn't having any problems. I asked him how he did it and he said his hands shook enough to get in rhythm with the rockers   :lolb:

Eric

Title: Re: 1st I.C. build "Tiny"
Post by: 90LX_Notch on March 29, 2017, 10:19:47 PM
Thank you very much George.  I still have a long ways to go for the first pops.  I just have to keep "chipping away at the stone" and I'll get there.

Eric I wound up making it as a plain jam nut.  I still have the other one as a back up.

-Bob
Title: Re: 1st I.C. build "Tiny"
Post by: gbritnell on March 29, 2017, 10:56:15 PM
 :lolb: :lolb: :lolb:
Eric, that sure brings back old memories but son you forgot the part about the oil spraying all over your arm and face.
gbritnell
Title: Re: 1st I.C. build "Tiny"
Post by: Tennessee Whiskey on March 29, 2017, 11:35:17 PM
Excuse the deviation Bob. George, remember that oil smell when you were in a hurry for a date and you tried to cover it with Old Spice or English Leather, depending on age  :lolb:  Back to you Bob

Eric
Title: Re: 1st I.C. build "Tiny"
Post by: 90LX_Notch on March 30, 2017, 12:14:17 AM
No problem boys.

Thankfully, my 5.0 had hydraulic roller lifters.  The aftermarket heads were stud mount rockers and setting them was snap.  Put the cam on the base circle, tighten the adjuster until the pushrod rolled inbetween your fingers without any up and down movement and lock her down.  All done with the engine off.  The only killer was turning the engine over by hand to set 16 of them.

-Bob
Title: Re: 1st I.C. build "Tiny"
Post by: zeeprogrammer on March 30, 2017, 12:18:46 AM
Excuse the deviation Bob. George, remember that oil smell when you were in a hurry for a date and you tried to cover it with Old Spice or English Leather, depending on age  :lolb: 

Brut.
Title: Re: 1st I.C. build "Tiny"
Post by: 90LX_Notch on March 30, 2017, 12:22:21 AM
Don't forget Canoe.

-Bob
Title: Re: 1st I.C. build "Tiny"
Post by: b.lindsey on March 30, 2017, 12:34:40 AM
I'm with Zee on the Brut, but don't forget British Sterling and if your were on a budget, Hai Karate!!  :lolb:

Bill
Title: Re: 1st I.C. build "Tiny"
Post by: steamer on March 30, 2017, 12:37:52 AM
I'm with Zee on the Brut, but don't forget British Sterling and if your were on a budget, Hai Karate!!  :lolb:

Bill

Hai Karate!     LMAO!    God that was Rank!
Title: Re: 1st I.C. build "Tiny"
Post by: steamer on March 30, 2017, 01:12:30 AM
There will be a third one running George....don't you worry.

Title: Re: 1st I.C. build "Tiny"
Post by: 90LX_Notch on March 31, 2017, 05:40:52 PM
Head Assembly:

I have made the Stand Off for the rocker arm as well as the pivot pin.  I also made a tiny cotter pin for the end of the pivot pin.  How I did the cotter pin is here: http://www.modelenginemaker.com/index.php/topic,7000.0.html.  The cotter pin was intentionally kept long at this point.  Once the engine is complete and running, I will trim it so that it looks proper.

With the Stand Off I kept the critical dimensions as Arv drew them and stylized the rest.

I assembled all of the head parts that I have made thus far for a family shot.  I also included an exploded view of the head asssembly.

-Bob

Title: Re: 1st I.C. build "Tiny"
Post by: gbritnell on March 31, 2017, 05:46:22 PM
Great looking work Bob! The assembled head sure looks nice.
gbritnell
Title: Re: 1st I.C. build "Tiny"
Post by: b.lindsey on March 31, 2017, 06:48:57 PM
It sure does Bob. I will be getting back to mine this weekend starting with the head. Thanks for keeping me inspired!!

Bill
Title: Re: 1st I.C. build "Tiny"
Post by: 90LX_Notch on March 31, 2017, 06:58:24 PM
George thank you very much.  I have learned much over the years from your posts.

Thanks Bill.  I'm glad to hear that you will be back at it this weekend, that means that your wife is doing well.  Don't kid yourself; the inspiration is a two (okay, three ;)) way street.

We have company this weekend; so I probably won't have much to update with.

-Bob
Title: Re: 1st I.C. build "Tiny"
Post by: Roger B on March 31, 2017, 08:08:06 PM
Still following along in the background  :ThumbsUp:  :ThumbsUp:  :wine1:
Title: Re: 1st I.C. build "Tiny"
Post by: steamer on March 31, 2017, 10:42:08 PM
I made bent ones, that still fit in the recess, but I like yours better Bob.    I'll remake mine

Dave
Title: Re: 1st I.C. build "Tiny"
Post by: 90LX_Notch on March 31, 2017, 11:08:54 PM
Thanks for following along Roger.

Dave I used music wire. 

 Nip it long.  Hold it in a pinvise.  Put the pinvise in a V-block.  Gently push the pin against a disksander.  Stone a chamfer on the pin.  Reverse the pin in the pinvise and repeat.  You just have to sneak up on the overall length.  Sand it.  Pull it out and measure. Repeat until you get it.   Mine are .125 long.   

Earlier in this thread is a picture of the setup.

-Bob

Title: Re: 1st I.C. build "Tiny"
Post by: Tennessee Whiskey on March 31, 2017, 11:24:42 PM
I don't recall how small that I saw it, but, whilst looking for some silver wire to inlay, I saw a bunch of stainless half round wire that would be great if it's small enough: check the jewelers websites.

Eric
Title: Re: 1st I.C. build "Tiny"
Post by: 90LX_Notch on April 06, 2017, 01:24:28 AM
I finally was able to get back to machining after this weekend.



Mixer Body:

I elected to make the mixer body from aluminum.  There was nothing complicated in making it I so I didn't take any machining/setup pictures.  I might come back at a later date and add some "dress up" features to it.

-Bob
Title: Re: 1st I.C. build "Tiny"
Post by: b.lindsey on April 06, 2017, 01:43:10 AM
Good looking part Bob.  Good to see more progress.

Bill
Title: Re: 1st I.C. build "Tiny"
Post by: Ian S C on April 06, 2017, 11:15:30 AM
To make some small split/cotter pins, I used some 1 mm/.040"(not sure which) steel wire. I held it in a fretsaw frame in place of the blade, and used a file, took it down to just under .020", they were used in the pins in the governor linkage for a Stuart Turner S9.
Ian S C
Title: Re: 1st I.C. build "Tiny"
Post by: 90LX_Notch on April 06, 2017, 05:10:14 PM
Thanks Bill.  Next is the Spray Bar.  Can you say "TEDIOUS"?

I saw (pun) that in the other thread Ian.  That is a brilliant way of doing it.  The od on the one above is .35 mm /.014 inches.  I started with .014 music wire and ground it until it was a half of the diameter (.17 mm/.007 iches).  Then it was bent into shape.  I think it wase easier to make the cotter pin, than it was to get it into the .35mm/.014 hole of the pin for the rocker arm.

-Bob
Title: Re: 1st I.C. build "Tiny"
Post by: Tennessee Whiskey on April 06, 2017, 09:18:44 PM
As Alan Jackson sang: " It's alright to be little bity "  :lolb:, y'all are taking it to another level. I've noticed by chance, that the jewelry makers supply sites have quite a bit of stainless "half-round" wire. Sizes look small, well maybe not this small, but give them a look anyhoo.

Eric
Title: Re: 1st I.C. build "Tiny"
Post by: 90LX_Notch on April 06, 2017, 11:25:26 PM
I checked out some jewelry supply sites Eric.

 The wire is much bigger than I needed; but, there are a lot of really cool tools out there.  I saw a drill set .005 - .016.  It was only around $21.00.  That seems cheap; it's probably Chinese.  .005 would be big on the "pucker" list. 

-Bob
Title: Re: 1st I.C. build "Tiny"
Post by: 90LX_Notch on April 07, 2017, 06:14:13 PM
Spray Bar:

This will be the most tedious part so far of this build.  It calls for a .018 hole meeting a .025 hole along a common axis.  At that meeting point, a .020 cross hole is drilled.


I chucked up a piece of 1/8 brass and began. 

After facing and center drilling, a .018 diameter hole was drilled .325 deep.  This gave over .100 past the location for the .020 cross hole.  This extra depth is also intended to guide the .025 drill from the other end to the .020 cross hole location.

Next a .062 wide groove was turned to a .065 diameter.

The part was then moved to the mill and the .020 cross hole was drilled in the center of the groove.

-Bob
Title: Re: 1st I.C. build "Tiny"
Post by: b.lindsey on April 07, 2017, 09:15:53 PM
Nice Bob. Bet you are happy to have that one behind you now! Your pictures will give me something to shoot for.

Bill
Title: Re: 1st I.C. build "Tiny"
Post by: 90LX_Notch on April 07, 2017, 09:46:37 PM
Bill, there is still a bunch of work to do on this one.   Take at look at number 14 of  Arv's plans.  I still have to drill the .025 hole from the other end.  Turn the ods.  Thread it and drill a couple of ids.

-Bob
Title: Re: 1st I.C. build "Tiny"
Post by: b.lindsey on April 08, 2017, 02:20:26 AM
Thanks for clearing the way ahead Bob. Hope not to be too far behind you.

Bill
Title: Re: 1st I.C. build "Tiny"
Post by: 90LX_Notch on April 11, 2017, 08:44:50 PM
After knocking out a couple of side projects we are back on "Tiny".


Spray Bar continued:

The spray bar was faced to length and the .025 diameter was drilled from the other end.  The plan was that the .025 would eventually pick up the .018 hole and follow it to within .050 of the .020 intersect hole.   .The 025 hole is for the needle valve and the .018 is the seat for the needle valve.  These diameters need to be concentric with one and other and transition at the .020 intersect.

At this point the concentricity looks good.  The last .050 depth of the .025 hole will be done by hand with a pinvise.

-Bob
Title: Re: 1st I.C. build "Tiny"
Post by: 90LX_Notch on April 12, 2017, 07:55:58 PM
Spray Bar continued:

The print calls for a 2-56 external thread.  I don't have a die for that size, but do have 2-64 along with the coresponding tap.  I made a quick gauge then proceeded with the spray bar.  The od features were turned and the threads cut.  The part was then reversed in the collet and the id features were drilled.  Finally, the .025/.018 transition at the cross hole was finished by hand.  The end of a .025 drill was ground square and used a guage to determine when the transition occured at the center of the .020 cross hole.

A 2-64 threaded collar was also made in lieu of a nut.

-Bob
Title: Re: 1st I.C. build "Tiny"
Post by: gbritnell on April 12, 2017, 08:22:01 PM
Hi Bob,
You did good using the 2-64 thread given the fact that these carbs are very sensitive. I didn't have that size so I made my own.
gbritnell
Title: Re: 1st I.C. build "Tiny"
Post by: b.lindsey on April 12, 2017, 08:52:43 PM
Bob that looks great, knowing how small it is. So I guess I need to order a 2-64 tap and die now huh?? :)

Bill
Title: Re: 1st I.C. build "Tiny"
Post by: Don1966 on April 13, 2017, 12:38:07 AM
Looking good Bob and damn that's small....... :praise2:


Don
Title: Re: 1st I.C. build "Tiny"
Post by: Dave Otto on April 13, 2017, 01:04:13 AM
Nice looking parts Bob!

Dave
Title: Re: 1st I.C. build "Tiny"
Post by: steamer on April 13, 2017, 01:05:28 AM
Victor Machinery has 2-72 and 2-80 taps and dies available......like $12 each...

Always adjust your die to the tap with a couple of test pieces first...especially in this fine a pitch....

Dave
Title: Re: 1st I.C. build "Tiny"
Post by: 90LX_Notch on April 13, 2017, 01:42:24 AM
Thanks everybody and thanks for tagging along on this project.

George-  I was just  lucky that I had 2-64 and I figured that it would be an advantage over 2-56.  Thanks for confirming that.

Bill-  Arv specs 2-56 on the drawing.

Dave- That was the idea of the "gauge".  It alowed me to match the spray bar to the tap that will be used for the needle assembly.

-Bob
Title: Re: 1st I.C. build "Tiny"
Post by: zeeprogrammer on April 13, 2017, 01:42:37 AM
Still watching and enjoying.  :ThumbsUp:

 :popcorn:
Title: Re: 1st I.C. build "Tiny"
Post by: b.lindsey on April 13, 2017, 02:00:16 AM
Bob, yes the drawing shows 2-56 but George makes a good point as to sensivity. 2-56 would be .0179" per revolution, 2-64 would be .0156" and taken to the extreme Dave mentioned 2-80 would be .0125".  The 2-64 seems a reasonable compromise.

Bill
Title: Re: 1st I.C. build "Tiny"
Post by: 90LX_Notch on April 13, 2017, 02:50:32 AM
I'm glad your still here Carl.   

Bill I understand the differences in pitches. (Too many years in QC doing that stuff.)   I just figured, if you already had 2-56, you wouldn't need to buy a tap and die.  Actually, you need two taps because the needle valve assembly requires a bottoming tap.  I'm just going grind back an extra 2-64 tap.

-Bob
Title: Re: 1st I.C. build "Tiny"
Post by: 90LX_Notch on April 17, 2017, 05:21:54 PM
Mixer Screw-

The mixer screw is pretty much straight forward so I only have a finished picture.  At this point, I do have a pin that measures .024; but, I am holding off using it as the needle too see if I can source the required .025 sewing needle.

I made up the spring for the mixer screw and assembled the unit for a family shot.

-Bob
Title: Re: 1st I.C. build "Tiny"
Post by: gbritnell on April 18, 2017, 12:56:21 AM
Bob,
The first time I built one of these carbs I thought "there's no way this thing will work!" but it does. Looks good!
gbritnell
Title: Re: 1st I.C. build "Tiny"
Post by: 90LX_Notch on April 18, 2017, 01:23:09 AM
Thanks George.  Does the orientation of the .020 hole in the spray bar make a difference?   The hole could be parallel to the axis of the throat of the mixer body or it could be oriented perpindicular.  I assume that I would want it parallel inorder for it to draw fuel.  Arv's notes do not specify.

-Bob
Title: Re: 1st I.C. build "Tiny"
Post by: b.lindsey on April 18, 2017, 01:42:18 AM
Good question Bob, I was assuming the same thing you were, parallel. Looking forward to the answer.

Bill
Title: Re: 1st I.C. build "Tiny"
Post by: Flyboy Jim on April 18, 2017, 03:35:12 AM
I can just hear it now: "What ever happened to ole Bill" ......................"Well ever since he discovered sewing needles, he's spending all his time over on the Quilting Forum now"!  :lolb:

Jim
Title: Re: 1st I.C. build "Tiny"
Post by: Dave Otto on April 18, 2017, 03:49:23 AM
Good question Bob, I was assuming the same thing you were, parallel. Looking forward to the answer.

Bill

Perpendicular, at least that is the way it is on my 1.5hp John Deere Stationary engine.

Dave
Title: Re: 1st I.C. build "Tiny"
Post by: b.lindsey on April 18, 2017, 11:28:03 AM
I can just hear it now: "What ever happened to ole Bill" ......................"Well ever since he discovered sewing needles, he's spending all his time over on the Quilting Forum now"!  :lolb:

Jim

Actually been there, done that Jim, though it wasn't quilting it was counted cross stitch. When I was younger and the eyes were better I found it quite relaxing. Unfortunately any needles I have left over from those days though have more rounded blunt points. This application needs sharp points. Hoping to get by Hobby Lobby this afternoon :)

Bill
Title: Re: 1st I.C. build "Tiny"
Post by: gbritnell on April 18, 2017, 01:14:14 PM
I put mine parallel with the axis of the throat of the carb. That way it seems to make more of a Venturi.
gbritnell
Title: Re: 1st I.C. build "Tiny"
Post by: b.lindsey on April 18, 2017, 02:24:59 PM
Thanks George!

Bill
Title: Re: 1st I.C. build "Tiny"
Post by: Flyboy Jim on April 18, 2017, 03:09:40 PM
I can just hear it now: "What ever happened to ole Bill" ......................"Well ever since he discovered sewing needles, he's spending all his time over on the Quilting Forum now"!  :lolb:

Jim

Actually been there, done that Jim, though it wasn't quilting it was counted cross stitch. When I was younger and the eyes were better I found it quite relaxing. Unfortunately any needles I have left over from those days though have more rounded blunt points. This application needs sharp points. Hoping to get by Hobby Lobby this afternoon :)

Bill

It's surprising how many men have done counted cross stitch or needle point..............myself included.  I think it has something with the way the process works that appeals to them. One of the most famous to do needle point was Rosey Grier: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rosey_Grier I remember on a talk show he said that he's actually a gentle person.........................unless he sees someone holding a football!  :hammerbash: Or a gun if you read his bio.

Jim

PS: This needle valve project is interesting. It never occurred to me to actually use a needle for a needle valve.  :Doh:
Title: Re: 1st I.C. build "Tiny"
Post by: 90LX_Notch on April 18, 2017, 06:47:51 PM
Thanks Dave and George. 

-Bob
Title: Re: 1st I.C. build "Tiny"
Post by: mike mott on April 18, 2017, 08:29:44 PM
Just worked through the whole thread Bob looks great loved all the set ups with the face plate and the pallet. I had not seen the pallet device before. it looks like the surface is ground and the sides milled?

Mike
Title: Re: 1st I.C. build "Tiny"
Post by: 90LX_Notch on April 18, 2017, 09:06:37 PM
Great to have you along Mike.

Yes, you are correct.  Only the top surface is ground.  At the time when I made it, I didn't have anything to bank it off of to grind the sides square.  Also, lengthwise it I don't think it would fit under my little Sanford grinder.  I milled pretty square directly on the mill table.  What I was after was a flat surface parallel to the bottom of the pallet. 

I would call it a fixture plate, but Tom Lipton did a video and called his a mini pallet.  They've been around forever.  They are real handy.

-Bob
Title: Re: 1st I.C. build "Tiny"
Post by: zeeprogrammer on April 18, 2017, 10:48:53 PM
Still following along Bob.  :popcorn:

I remember Rosey. And quilting is on my 'someday' list. Odd...I was just thinking about it the other day.
Title: Re: 1st I.C. build "Tiny"
Post by: 90LX_Notch on April 18, 2017, 11:44:55 PM
Thanks Carl.

This will probably be a slow week for updates.  My wife is on vacation and we are spending a bunch of "qt" while the kids are at school.  I'm still going to try and get some shop time in. 

-Bob
Title: Re: 1st I.C. build "Tiny"
Post by: Mosey on April 19, 2017, 02:07:14 PM
I agree with comments made by others here. This is great fun watching three of these builds going on. Especially when a Benchmaster is used!  :cheers:

Pete

Which one of you guys has my old Benchmaster?
Mosey
Title: Re: 1st I.C. build "Tiny"
Post by: 90LX_Notch on April 19, 2017, 06:59:46 PM
I have the x axis nut that you sent me years ago Mosey.  Mine Benchmaster came not far from you.  It is on the factory stand.  The previous owner said that he got it from a business.

-Bob
Title: Re: 1st I.C. build "Tiny"
Post by: 90LX_Notch on April 23, 2017, 08:26:28 PM
Mixer Needle:

Anyone who has been following Bill's Tiny build is aware of the needle situation.  The print calls for a .025 needle, and neither Bill or myself, were able to source that size.  I wound up buying a pack at Walmart that measured .0272-.0275.  Unfortunately, that doesn't fit and I I didn't want to open the hole in the spray bar to .028 (the closest drill).  I decided to reduce the diameter of the needle to .025.

To do this a lap was made out of .250 thick aluminum bar.  Four holes were drilled .028, .026, .025 and .024 based on wire size drills.  A .250 diameter hole was also drilled to allow the lap to be closed tighter with a screw.  A .014 thick slitting saw was used to saw through the middle of the holes.

The lap was first tried by itself and proved to slow at removing material with 320 grit compound.  220 grit sand paper was then used to bring the needle down to .0255.  The lap was next used with 500 grit compound and the needle was brought to .0250 by progressively using the holes.  This proved to be a loose fit and a second needle was sanded and lapped until a nice fit was achieved at .0260.

The mixer was reassembled and the adjusting nut was backed out one turn per George's suggestion.  Next a speck of solder was formed and the needle was seated in the spray bar and fluxed.  A quick use of the propane torch and the needle was soldered to the adjusting nut.  The needle was then trimmed and disk sanded flush to the adjusing nut.
Title: Re: 1st I.C. build "Tiny"
Post by: b.lindsey on April 23, 2017, 08:39:22 PM
Wow, Bob, you were a man on a mission. Looks like it turned out well though!!  Another part done, time for a family shot :)

Bill
Title: Re: 1st I.C. build "Tiny"
Post by: yogi on April 24, 2017, 12:32:47 AM
Very impressive Bob!!!  :ThumbsUp: :ThumbsUp: :ThumbsUp:
I'm fascinated!  :popcorn:
Title: Re: 1st I.C. build "Tiny"
Post by: 90LX_Notch on April 24, 2017, 01:34:45 AM
Thanks Bill.  I figured if it worked it can be carried forward in similar situations.

yogi, thank you very much.  I'm still following along on your Freelance build.

-Bob
Title: Re: 1st I.C. build "Tiny"
Post by: Dave Otto on April 24, 2017, 01:56:12 AM
Nice work Bob!

I will file that one away.



Dave
Title: Re: 1st I.C. build "Tiny"
Post by: 90LX_Notch on April 24, 2017, 05:03:18 PM
Thanks Dave.


Testing the Mixer:

I decided to proof the Mixer Assembly.  I began by filling a small container with water and adding food coloring to it.  A small hose was attached to the pickup tube of the spray bar and compressed air was then fed through the mixer body. 

The axis of the .020 hole of the spray bar was oriented parallel to the axis of the throat of the mixer body.  This orientation yielded bubbles in the water from the pickup tube.   Fail.

Next the axis of the .020 hole was oriented perpindicular to the axis of the throat.  The colored water was drawn up through the pick up tube and sprayed out of the mixer body.  Success.

Just for kicks I made a second test setup using a vacuum gage.  You can see the reading on the gage in the last picture.

So what this exercise shows, is that an actual venturie effect is created with the holes at right angles.  The engine won't depend on the vacuum created by the piston to draw in fuel.  Rather, vacuum is created by the movement of the air across the spray bar.  I assume that the vacuum at the pick up tube will be greater than the vacuum created by the piston yielding a better running/ easier to tune engine.

-Bob
Title: Re: 1st I.C. build "Tiny"
Post by: b.lindsey on April 24, 2017, 05:47:08 PM
Interesting test Bob, though still puzzling since George said that his is oriented parallel to the mixer body axis. Not sure I understand you last paragraph  :headscratch:. The air movement through the carb is totally dependent on the backstroke of the piston when the intake valve is open (the "hit" mode). The only time a vacuum would be created would be if you put your finger over the mixer air intake, in effect acting as a choke. Without that  the cylinder is open to the atmosphere as the piston goes back (again assuming the intake valve is open), generating air movement yes, and a slight vacuum at the fuel intake tube due to the venture effect. Maybe we are saying the same thing in different ways. I think your conclusion as to spray bar orientation is valid, but wonder if suction from the cylinder side as when the engine is running will replicate the results of forcing air through from the mixer air inlet side. If I'm way out in left field, somebody jerk me back please !  :-\

Bill
Title: Re: 1st I.C. build "Tiny"
Post by: 90LX_Notch on April 24, 2017, 06:04:11 PM
Bill-

On the exhaust stroke, the gasses are pushed out the exhaust port.  (The volume of the cylinder is basically zero.). Next, the exhaust valve closes and the piston moves down the cylinder creating vacuum.  At this point the intake valve opens and the air fuel mixture is drawn into the cylinder due to the vacuum created by the piston travelling down the bore. 

Think of it in terms of checking the piston fit on your Poppin engine.  Pulling the piston out of the bore and hearing the pop when the other end is closed off.  That is created by the vacuum due to the piston traveling down the bore.

My setup replicates forced induction (boost) that would be created by a super charger or turbo charger.



-Bob
Title: Re: 1st I.C. build "Tiny"
Post by: b.lindsey on April 24, 2017, 06:16:52 PM
Bob, yes I understand all that, in fact its exactly how I checked the piston fit in the bore. I guess how far the piston has to travel before opening the intake valve will depend on the intake spring and I can see there being a short rush of air/fuel into the cylinder and the corresponding air flow across the venturi. Its just hard to imagine this happening at this scale with a calculated displacement of .055 cu. in. though I know it has to be else it wouldn't work :)

Bill
Title: Re: 1st I.C. build "Tiny"
Post by: 90LX_Notch on April 24, 2017, 06:47:49 PM
Bill-

I wish I had a motorized vacuum pump in order to test the orientation under vacuum.  The difference may be so minuscule that it doesn't effect anything.

I'm just trying to test the critical parts as I move forward.  This way if it doesn't run, once completed, I'll have an easier time troubleshooting it (hopefully).

-Bob
Title: Re: 1st I.C. build "Tiny"
Post by: 90LX_Notch on April 25, 2017, 05:55:46 PM
Further Mixer testing:

To satisfy both Bill and my curiosity, I cobbled up a reducer for my ShopVac that allowed me to test the Mixer under vacuum.  Two vacuum gages were plumbed in.  One on the supply line and one on the pickup tube of the Mixer.  The gages were prior tested against one and other and found to have one in/mg difference between them.  The black face gage having the lower reading.

The test showed no real difference between the gages.  This seems to indicate that a venturie effect is very small. 

I question if the ShopVac is overkill at this scale for a valid test.  Yesterday's test with compressed air showed that after a certain point, increasing the psi through the mixer body had no effect on the vacuum generated by the venturie.  The testing probabley also needs to be done with flow meters to see what is really going on.

-Bob 
Title: Re: 1st I.C. build "Tiny"
Post by: gbritnell on April 26, 2017, 02:35:35 AM
'Venturi Effect', A decrease in pressure due to an area of restriction in our case, a tube. As a fluid (air) flows through this restriction the velocity increases and the pressure drops. At the point of lowest pressure we introduce a jet or orifice that supplies fuel. Being that the fuel supply is vented to atmospheric pressure and the area of restriction is at a lower pressure than the atmosphere the fuel is 'pushed' into the carb throat.
So we have a tube with a restriction, our carb. Given the above description any reduction in the size of the tube should or will provide us with the necessary results. Is the orientation of the tube more efficient one way or the other, I can't mathematically say but in something this small I don't think so.
All of the engines built to date, and there's many of them, run. So if your engine has ignition and compression and refuses to run, rotate the mixer tube.
It would really be interesting to have test apparatus sensitive enough to actually see what's going on.
gbritnell
Title: Re: 1st I.C. build "Tiny"
Post by: 90LX_Notch on April 26, 2017, 04:13:57 AM
I'm glad that you wieghed in George.  I wanted see what your take was on this.  I agree that more sensitive equipment is needed.  Even without more sensitive equipment, further tests could be made.   

At this point I know the mixer works; that is all I was after.  At this point, it doesn't make sense to conduct any further testing.  Once the engine is done, and if it runs, I'll change the orientation of the spray bar and see if there is any effect.

-Bob
Title: Re: 1st I.C. build "Tiny"
Post by: Roger B on April 26, 2017, 11:20:32 AM
Still following along :ThumbsUp:  :ThumbsUp: I always enjoy experiments to try and understand how things really work  :)  :wine1:
Title: Re: 1st I.C. build "Tiny"
Post by: gerritv on April 26, 2017, 12:41:11 PM
A water manometer would be simple to setup using some clear tubing and coloured water. It will be more sensitive than the gauges as they require less effort from the vacuum.
If you wanted calibration, use some 1cc U100 insulin syringes for the gauge section.

Gerrit
Title: Re: 1st I.C. build "Tiny"
Post by: MJM460 on April 26, 2017, 02:29:21 PM
May I try and add the maths to George's excellent explanation.

One of the basic laws of physics is conservation of energy which is expressed in an equation known as Bernoulli's Law which says the sum of the pressure energy and the velocity energy is constant.  (We can neglect changes in energy due to changes in height in this case.)

At the narrow point of the Venturi the velocity is high, so the static pressure must be low.

If our cross tube with one hole is oriented crossways, it sees the pressure but does not see the velocity effect.  So it sees only the static pressure.  If the hole faces the incoming stream, it sees the pressure plus the velocity effect called the total pressure.  In the experiment the energy of the stream, which was compressed air, is higher than atmospheric pressure and the pressure was enough to blow the bubbles back to the tank.  If the hole faces downstream, the pressure will probably be some little bit below the static pressure due to eddies around the bar.

If you use any consistent set of units, the velocity component of the total pressure is calculated as density times velocity squared divided by 2.  In SI units density must be in kg/m^3, velocity in m/s and pressure in N/m^2.  Not exactly mental arithmetic, but easily done by calculator or computer.

I hope that some are still reading and that I have made sense.  I apologise to the others.

MJM460
Title: Re: 1st I.C. build "Tiny"
Post by: b.lindsey on April 26, 2017, 03:02:50 PM
The only thing I can add to the discussion is that regardless of whether the .020" cross hole is oriented parallel or perpendicular to the axial air flow through the mixer body, the orientation of the .018" hole through which the fuel flows will always be perpendicular to the air flow. It will still be interesting to see what effect rotating the .020" cross hole (from parallel to perpendicular) has on engine performance, but that will have to be an empirical test under running  conditions. On the other hand I will be elated (insert happy dance) just to see it running  :pinkelephant:

Bill
Title: Re: 1st I.C. build "Tiny"
Post by: gerritv on April 26, 2017, 03:15:23 PM
This is how Weber does it in the DCOE  (http://www.webercarburetors.net/wp-content/uploads/2014/07/weber-doce-operation.gif)and DCNF's:

Notice the boost venture inside the main one. The boost venturi is where the fuel enters, which would be similar to what is being discussed.

If you look at the flow diagram and the use of idle vs. main  (http://www.datsun2000.com/images/weber_flow_chart.jpg)then perhaps you don't need to actually enter the fuel in middle of air stream. Idle jets are influential to about 4000 rpm om Ferrari V8's.

Gerrit
Title: Re: 1st I.C. build "Tiny"
Post by: 90LX_Notch on April 26, 2017, 03:53:19 PM
MJM460-

The print shows the .020 cross hole (orifice) as a through hole.  This is how I built it and I believe that Bill did also.  I believe this is why there wasn't any venturi effect when it was oriented parallel to the Mixer's throat.  The air wasn't flowing around the spraybar but straight through orifice.  Once it was turned 90 degrees the air flowed around the spraybar and created the necessary low pressure at the orifices.

A single hole through one side of the spraybar I believe would act as both you and George explain it.

At this point, all kinds of experiments could be done.  I could block one side of the crosshole and rerun the tests, but I Blue Locktited the threaded collar to the spraybar Monday once I knew that it would draw liquid. 

I just want to make parts and finish this engine.  When I began this hobby, it was always about building I.C. engines and I bielieve that I have honed my skills enough to finally enter that phase.


-Bob
Title: Re: 1st I.C. build "Tiny"
Post by: gbritnell on April 26, 2017, 05:31:59 PM
Thanks for the personal message Bob. I think where the confusion lies is in describing the position of the fuel tube, parallel of perpendicular. I might have read it too quickly and given the wrong answer. I double checked my engine and I have the little flats on the tube parallel with the throat. This allow the air to stream across them.
gbritnell
Title: Re: 1st I.C. build "Tiny"
Post by: 90LX_Notch on April 26, 2017, 05:49:23 PM
Thanks George.  I see now where how I framed the question would cause confusion.  I probably should have sketched something.  After all,  "A picture is worth a thousand words." 

 The better way to have asked would have been wheather to orient coaxial or perpindicular.

-Bob
Title: Re: 1st I.C. build "Tiny"
Post by: b.lindsey on April 26, 2017, 05:57:24 PM
Ok, now I am confused. So where did this end up??  If you are looking down the throat of the mixer body, can you see through the .020" hole or not?

Bill
Title: Re: 1st I.C. build "Tiny"
Post by: 90LX_Notch on April 26, 2017, 06:11:52 PM
You can't see it Bill. 

I use to be articulate.  Now, I cause confusion!  It sucks getting old!

-Bob
Title: Re: 1st I.C. build "Tiny"
Post by: b.lindsey on April 26, 2017, 06:35:08 PM
It's not you Bob, just a matter of semantics more likely, but thanks, I got it now :)

Bill
Title: Re: 1st I.C. build "Tiny"
Post by: 90LX_Notch on April 26, 2017, 07:55:55 PM
I was just poking fun at myself Bill. 

I think I'm in a mini midlife crisis.  I recently turned 50.  Within the last year I sold my beloved Mustang.  I've been a stay at home dad for 13 years.   

Boohoo, boohoo.

-Bob
Title: Re: 1st I.C. build "Tiny"
Post by: MJM460 on April 27, 2017, 12:11:12 PM
Hi Bob,

I am sorry that I missed the fact that it was a cross hole, and wondered while I was writing, but trying to cover everything results in very long posts.  When it is a cross hole, it must be perpendicular to the flow.  I am with you, I would not create more experiments to do, but get on with building the engine.

These things are pretty hard to describe without a possibility of ambiguity.  A sketch would help the discussion, but ambiguity leads to more discussion, and the possibility of more understanding of how the parts we build actually work.

Looking forward to that running video.

MJM460
Title: Re: 1st I.C. build "Tiny"
Post by: 90LX_Notch on April 27, 2017, 01:22:29 PM
MJM460-

There's nothing to apologize for.  Your post was excellent.  At somepoint, I do want to revisit all of this and conduct some more tests.  I learned a lot from this little diversion and hopefully others did as well.

-Bob
Title: Re: 1st I.C. build "Tiny"
Post by: 10KPete on April 27, 2017, 04:25:14 PM
That little diversion was indeed instructive. I've been wanting to set up a 'tiny' carb/mixer with manometers and do some tests for some years but never seem to have the time.... I know how it all works but testing "in scale" would be very interesting!!!

Keep it going!

Pete
Title: Re: 1st I.C. build "Tiny"
Post by: 90LX_Notch on April 27, 2017, 06:29:45 PM
Pete I just want to finish this and have it run.  I definitely want to revist experimenting with this stuff.


Spark Plug:

This is where I am at with the spark plug.  There is nothing really tricky or exotic in setups or machining for it.  I threaded the top of the hat for the electrode 0-80 and will make a little screw on terminal like a real spark plug.

-Bob
Title: Re: 1st I.C. build "Tiny"
Post by: b.lindsey on April 27, 2017, 06:39:37 PM
That is looking good Bob!  Did you use the Corian for the insulator? I played with the Teflon a bit last night and it turns fine but is rather soft when trying to turn that .075" diameter section that fits into the bottom of the metal part. With that done I am hoping the rest of it will go quicker. Should have some results tonight.  You tubing is in the mail BTW.

Bill
Title: Re: 1st I.C. build "Tiny"
Post by: 90LX_Notch on April 27, 2017, 07:19:41 PM
Bill-

Yes I used the Corian.  It was a "breeze" to turn.  The only problem that I had with it was drilling the .032 hole for the electrode.  I drilled a .025 pilot and follwed up with a .031 bit figuring it might drill oversize.  I figured that the .031 drill would fly down the pilot hole.  It didn't.  The Corian was producing a powder instead of chips and the drill was making that erie sound that a dry tap makes right before it binds.  So, I did a lot of backing out and clearing the flutes of the powder.

These are the only pictures I took of the spark plug machining. 

Once again thanks for the tubing.  I will gladly send you one of the Corian squares.  If you'd like, I'll saw it into sticks.


-Bob
Title: Re: 1st I.C. build "Tiny"
Post by: gbritnell on April 27, 2017, 08:12:56 PM
Hi Bob,
I have found that chase drilling, as I call it, following one drill with another only seems to work with larger drills say starting about .050. Here again it depends on how much you leave to chase. Now when drilling Corian it's another story. The tiny drills, below #60, just don't seem to have the relief that normal jobbers drills do. I have Huot drills so I know they're good drills but the same thing happens to me if I chase drill with them in Corian. They'll get hot and bind up so I just drill them to size with one drilling. Even if the hole is a bit too large I solve that by adding a drop of Loctite (263) to the electrode when assembling. Another 'trick' that I use when drilling the Corian is to leave my tailstock unclamped and slide it back and forth when drilling. I find I have a better feel for what the drill is doing. I peck just the tiniest amount at a time. If you try to take too much the Corian will get hot and melt into the flutes of the drill and you will have to pick it out with a sharp object, Exacto knife etc. Another way to prevent the Corian from sticking to the drill is to put a drop of spit on it while drilling. This will lubricate the flutes enough to help prevent the buildup. Don't use any type of cutting fluid otherwise it will contaminate the Corian and the Loctite won't work.
gbritnell
Title: Re: 1st I.C. build "Tiny"
Post by: 10KPete on April 27, 2017, 10:25:48 PM
I've found that when drill/reaming/sawing acrylic based materials like Corian that water with a few drops of liquid soap works really well for a lube and coolant. And it just rinses out with......water!

Pete
Title: Re: 1st I.C. build "Tiny"
Post by: 90LX_Notch on April 28, 2017, 12:28:53 AM
Thanks George.  I always peck small holes as well as periodically back the drill all of the way out to clean the chips from the flutes.  I've found that soft artist's paint brushes work very well to clean the flutes.  I found that when the flutes pack is when the drill binds and breaks.  Spit is a great natural lubricant.

Thanks Pete.  I had thought of using water; but was enough into it, that I didn't want to "change horses midstream".  Of course it was the last operation when all of this occurred. 

-Bob
Title: Re: 1st I.C. build "Tiny"
Post by: 10KPete on April 28, 2017, 12:37:31 AM

Thanks Pete.  I had thought of using water; but was enough into it, that I didn't want to "change horses midstream".  Of course it was the last operation when all of this occurred. 

-Bob

I always seem to figure out something on the very last part.... :facepalm:

Pete
Title: Re: 1st I.C. build "Tiny"
Post by: zeeprogrammer on April 28, 2017, 12:43:29 PM
Neat looking sparkplug.

It's interesting following along both your and Bill's threads on this.
Title: Re: 1st I.C. build "Tiny"
Post by: 90LX_Notch on April 28, 2017, 04:16:41 PM
Thank you very much Carl.

Spark Plug:

The top of the Spark Plug is finished.  For now I am going to leave the combustion chamber end "as is" until I cobble up something to test the plug.

-Bob

Title: Re: 1st I.C. build "Tiny"
Post by: b.lindsey on April 28, 2017, 04:26:39 PM
That looks great Bob. There is quite a difference between the two plugs though from Arv's for George's designs. I will get mine finished up over the weekend and hopefully get the head far enough along to install it and then plan to test it with the CDI system on the little Briggs to see if it works perhaps Monday.

Bill
Title: Re: 1st I.C. build "Tiny"
Post by: 90LX_Notch on April 28, 2017, 04:47:13 PM
Thanks Bill.

Yes there is quite a difference between the designs.  Then there is mine... a hybrid, bling thing.  I plan on eventually making another one, but not as blingy.  The bling serves a purpose.

There is a swap meet tomorrow and I'm going to bring the head and "Ultra Tiny" with me.  Showing them, helps with price negotiations. 

-Bob

Title: Re: 1st I.C. build "Tiny"
Post by: Kim on April 28, 2017, 08:58:24 PM
That looks great Bob!

As I said on Bills thread, I'm learning a lot from reading your guys build threads, and its making me want to do an IC engine now!

Kim
Title: Re: 1st I.C. build "Tiny"
Post by: 90LX_Notch on April 29, 2017, 12:04:01 AM
Thanks Kim!  I am glad to hear that you have gained something from this thread as well as Bill's.  I have certainly learned a bunch with this build.

-Bob
Title: Re: 1st I.C. build "Tiny"
Post by: Don1966 on May 01, 2017, 12:20:09 AM
Just awesome Bob, you and Bill are really get after it....... :praise2:


Don
Title: Re: 1st I.C. build "Tiny"
Post by: zeeprogrammer on May 01, 2017, 01:30:40 AM
Wow. Putting the penny in the shot...I mean wow.

 :ThumbsUp:
Title: Re: 1st I.C. build "Tiny"
Post by: 90LX_Notch on May 01, 2017, 05:37:50 PM
Thanks Don and Zee. 

Nothing to really show for this weekend.  I did manage to rough cut a bar for the crankshaft.  I might get a start on it tonight.  This time of year, things start getting busy with family related stuff.

-Bob
Title: Re: 1st I.C. build "Tiny"
Post by: gbritnell on May 01, 2017, 05:59:52 PM
Bob,
I just posted a reply on Bill's thread about mounting the Hall transistor.
gbritnell
Title: Re: 1st I.C. build "Tiny"
Post by: 90LX_Notch on May 02, 2017, 12:41:07 AM
Thanks George.  I don't know what I am doing for an ignition system at this point for the engine.


Testing the Spark Plug:

I had planned on rigging up something to test the spark plug at some point in the future.  Then the other day I had an idea to set it up on the lawn mower; but, I have yet to dig the mower out of winter storage. 

Inspired by Bill's spark plug test, I really wanted to give it a try, but it was raining here today.  Then a thought crossed my mind.... "I know I saved the igniter off of an old gas grill before it went to the dump."

Lo and behold I was able to find it.  I'll be damned; the Spark Plug actually works.  BIG SMILE!

-Bob

9dP74l2_q0Q
Title: Re: 1st I.C. build "Tiny"
Post by: b.lindsey on May 02, 2017, 12:46:51 AM
That looks like a metal tabletop Bob, was the igniter also grounded to the table? Good feeling to see it work eh?

Bill

Title: Re: 1st I.C. build "Tiny"
Post by: zeeprogrammer on May 02, 2017, 12:54:06 AM
BIG SMILE!

Kind of says it all.  :ThumbsUp:
Title: Re: 1st I.C. build "Tiny"
Post by: 90LX_Notch on May 02, 2017, 01:04:37 AM
Yes it is.  It is 2 feet x 4 feet, 3/4" thick aluminum plate.  I actually got it for free with an Atlas 618 lathe someone wanted gone from there father's estate.  The lathe must have come from an industrial setting because the Atlas book about running a lathe that came with it had a department listed.  The company must have mounted the lathe to the plate.  It is an expensive chunk of metal for a home owner.

No, the igniter is a self contained unit.  I can actually fire the plug by holding the igniter in one hand and the head in the other.  The spark is significantly weaker, but it is there.

Very good feeling to see it work.  Thanks for posting your video this morning.  It really made me want to see if mine worked since I had scaled it down a bit.


-Bob
Title: Re: 1st I.C. build "Tiny"
Post by: 90LX_Notch on May 02, 2017, 01:05:13 AM
Yes it does Carl.  Thanks.

-Bob
Title: Re: 1st I.C. build "Tiny"
Post by: b.lindsey on May 02, 2017, 01:11:55 AM
Did you see George's comments on using the hall effect sensor and its mounting? I would highly recommend the CDI system from Roy Scholl.

Bill
Title: Re: 1st I.C. build "Tiny"
Post by: 90LX_Notch on May 02, 2017, 01:46:34 AM
Yes I did Bill.  I just looked at the the S&S site.  That looks like the way to go.  For some reason I thought the system was about twice the listed price.  At $110.00 it makes sense to get it.  I assume that I should order a bunch of extra Hall effect sensors.  It seams as though people burn them up.

-Bob
Title: Re: 1st I.C. build "Tiny"
Post by: b.lindsey on May 02, 2017, 02:06:02 AM
Bob, you might order an extra one, but I have never had a problem with it myself, though have only used it on one engine so far and that was the Briggs. The original system is still going strong. Just follow Roy's directions as far as orienting the magnet, proper grounding of everything and you should be good.

Bill
Title: Re: 1st I.C. build "Tiny"
Post by: 90LX_Notch on May 02, 2017, 02:26:19 AM
Sounds good Bill.  Thanks.

-Bob
Title: Re: 1st I.C. build "Tiny"
Post by: 90LX_Notch on May 04, 2017, 12:13:31 AM
Crankshaft:

I finally got some shop time and started the crankshaft. 

-Bob
Title: Re: 1st I.C. build "Tiny"
Post by: b.lindsey on May 04, 2017, 12:22:12 AM
Great Bob. I haven't been able to do anything since Sunday. :(.
What all do you have left to do?

Bill

Title: Re: 1st I.C. build "Tiny"
Post by: 90LX_Notch on May 04, 2017, 12:41:47 AM
A bunch Bill.  A bunch.

I'm starting to see the light at the end of the tunnel, but....

The to do list:

Crank
Connecting rod
Piston
Cylinder
Flywheels
Linkage
Gears

The gears are going to be the bear.  I've never cut any and I'm not yet equipped for it.  I plan on making the cutter, but I don't have a good way to index.  My spin indexer isn't up for the task. 

If anyone can recommend a good dividing head; I'm all ears.

-Bob
Title: Re: 1st I.C. build "Tiny"
Post by: b.lindsey on May 04, 2017, 12:50:08 AM
How about the rotary table?

Bill
Title: Re: 1st I.C. build "Tiny"
Post by: 90LX_Notch on May 04, 2017, 02:28:22 AM
My rotary table is a horizontal Bill.  I don't have anything big enough to mount it vertically.   Even if I rotate the mill's head 90; it won't work unless I make an arbor that would have the gear blank sitting several inches in the air.   (Benchmaster fail).

-Bob
Title: Re: 1st I.C. build "Tiny"
Post by: steamer on May 04, 2017, 11:59:33 AM
Harold halls unit is a good one to build....probably the simplest dividing/indexing head build I've seen

As is Rudy's.     

If you have a 40 tooth change gear, the rest is not that hard to cobble together with some work.....

Glad to help if I can Bob....

Dave
Title: Re: 1st I.C. build "Tiny"
Post by: 90LX_Notch on May 04, 2017, 01:06:39 PM
I thought about cobbling up something Dave.  I remember Tel posting a real simple one.  If it comes down to it, that's what I'll do. 

I look at it this way, I'm in this hobby for the long haul and a BS-0 Dividing Head makes sense.  I just don't want to layout money for a Chinese "kit".  I want something that works right out of the box and is accurate.

-Bob
Title: Re: 1st I.C. build "Tiny"
Post by: gbritnell on May 04, 2017, 05:31:46 PM
Hi Bob,
I have a Vertex -0- dividing head that I bought off Ebay quite a few years ago. I'm quite happy with it. Looking at the current prices on Ebay shows that what's available is quite pricey. You might be better off to get a horiz-vert rotary table.
gbritnell
Title: Re: 1st I.C. build "Tiny"
Post by: 90LX_Notch on May 04, 2017, 06:51:54 PM
Thanks George.  I figure that a dividing head will be more versitile in the long run.  Yes, they are pricey.   I noticed that the Grizzly BS-0 jumped $100.00 in eight years (old catalog, $299.00 vs website, $399.00). 

-Bob
Title: Re: 1st I.C. build "Tiny"
Post by: Doc on May 05, 2017, 12:43:58 AM
Bob
Things are looking good nice job!

As for gears.
 You can make the gear on the cheap as I call it. I've used this method a few times and has worked very well.
Here is a video of what I'm referring to.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gKlFEVWEtuI

With this method the bigger the dia you use for the index the more accurate it is and there is no limit to the number f teeth and gear size you can make. 
Title: Re: 1st I.C. build "Tiny"
Post by: 90LX_Notch on May 05, 2017, 04:04:56 AM
Thanks Doc.  I watched your video and the results speak for themselves. Impressive.

-Bob
Title: Re: 1st I.C. build "Tiny"
Post by: 90LX_Notch on May 08, 2017, 05:20:01 PM

Crankshaft:

First order of business is holding the crank offset by .250.  I set it up in the four jaw and didn't like the looks of it; so, I went about making a fixture.  The fixture is pretty straight forward and was designed for future use for other crankshafts.  There is a center for centering, then a spot is made for the required offset.  The spot is then picked up using the floating center method.  The required diameter for the crankshft is then produced.  A threaded cross hole is used to hold the crank by having a set screw push a .125 diameter brass plug against it.  By using a threaded crosshole, future holes of different sizes and offsets can be added. (That's the idea anyhow.)

The fixture is simply centered on the faceplate using the drilled center.

A parting tool was ground with the necessary reach for the throw.  The crank was then set up in the mill and a bulk of the waste material was removed.

The crank was then placed in the fixture and the turning of the crank pin began.

All for now....


-Bob
Title: Re: 1st I.C. build "Tiny"
Post by: b.lindsey on May 08, 2017, 05:44:08 PM
Another milestone Bob. Happy you are getting some shop time in too.

Bill
Title: Re: 1st I.C. build "Tiny"
Post by: Tennessee Whiskey on May 08, 2017, 08:57:50 PM
Nice looking crank Bob. How did you secure it in the fixture? I watched one of Stefan Gotteswinter's videos on a modified Keats type fixture this morning. It's a multi position plate much like your dedicated offset one.

Cletus
Title: Re: 1st I.C. build "Tiny"
Post by: 90LX_Notch on May 09, 2017, 12:19:15 AM
Bill- I'm happy to be at this milestone.

Eric- The crank is about half finished at this point. There is a .1875 diameter hole reamed in the fixture .250 from the center.  The crankshaft is inserted into this hole.  Perpendicular to this hole is a 10-32 threaded hole.  A 10-32 setscrew pushes a piece of .125 diameter brass against the shaft locking the crank in place.  The fixture is toe clamped to the faceplate.

-Bob
Title: Re: 1st I.C. build "Tiny"
Post by: Flyboy Jim on May 09, 2017, 03:12:40 AM
I like this fixture Bob. I think I have the drift, but would love to see some more pictures of the setup. The fixture plate for my Sherline RT looks a lot like your fixture plate, so I can now see a double duty use for it.

Also, I'm curious as to what your reservations were about using your 4 jaw chuck?

Thanks, Jim
Title: Re: 1st I.C. build "Tiny"
Post by: 90LX_Notch on May 09, 2017, 10:25:39 PM
Jim-

There is a small radius on the shaft where it meets the web of the crankshaft.  This radius would prevent the web from sitting flush to the face of the chuck jaws.  I felt that this would cause a lot a flexing during an interrupted cut and would increase the chance of the tool binding and ruining the crankshaft.


The hole in the fixture has a shallow counter bore to allievate this problem.  The main reason for the fixture was to provide a solid face for the crankshft web to butt against.

If you need any other view let me know and I'll take some other pictures. 

-Bob
Title: Re: 1st I.C. build "Tiny"
Post by: 90LX_Notch on May 09, 2017, 10:43:41 PM
Crankshaft continued:

The crankpin width was checked with a drill blank and the pin diameter was finished turned.  Next the .250 diameter bosses were turned. 

I can admit that had my worries that the a single setscrew would be up for the task of holding the crankshaft for the turning of the crankpin.   But, the brass plug held it firm without marring the shaft.  Now that I know it works, I have plenty of room to add holes as the need occurs for other crankshafts of different dimensions.

Now I just need to mill the counter weights and the Crankshaft will be done.

-Bob
Title: Re: 1st I.C. build "Tiny"
Post by: b.lindsey on May 09, 2017, 10:59:26 PM
Bob, I put a shallow recess in the face of my fixture that was a slip fit to the web OD. This was insurance against the crankshaft turning in addition to the setscrew, but would make the fixture less versatile for future use.

Bill
Title: Re: 1st I.C. build "Tiny"
Post by: 90LX_Notch on May 09, 2017, 11:30:35 PM
I thought of that Bill but I don't think it would actually make a difference because the od is concentric to the shaft od.   Therefore, the od will never actually make contact with pocket/counterbore in the event of the shaft slipping. 

I also considered just putting a pin in the fixture face that would prevent the crank from moving by locating in a hole in the webb.  The hole would later be milled away when the counter weights are machined. 

-Bob
Title: Re: 1st I.C. build "Tiny"
Post by: b.lindsey on May 09, 2017, 11:39:28 PM
True enough. I recall that now. Been a while since I did that. Truth be told I was relying on the setscrew too. I guess the pocket was one of many brain lapses. Sounded like a good idea at the time till I saw the reality  :paranoia:

Bill
Title: Re: 1st I.C. build "Tiny"
Post by: Flyboy Jim on May 10, 2017, 05:56:13 AM
Jim-

There is a small radius on the shaft where it meets the web of the crankshaft.  This radius would prevent the web from sitting flush to the face of the chuck jaws.  I felt that this would cause a lot a flexing during an interrupted cut and would increase the chance of the tool binding and ruining the crankshaft.


The hole in the fixture has a shallow counter bore to allievate this problem.  The main reason for the fixture was to provide a solid face for the crankshft web to butt against.

If you need any other view let me know and I'll take some other pictures. 

-Bob

Bob, great explanation and pictures ............thanks.

Jim
Title: Re: 1st I.C. build "Tiny"
Post by: steamer on May 10, 2017, 11:12:42 AM
Looks good buddy!    Following along!

Dave
Title: Re: 1st I.C. build "Tiny"
Post by: 90LX_Notch on May 10, 2017, 05:54:58 PM
Jim- You're welcome.

Dave- Thanks Dave.
Title: Re: 1st I.C. build "Tiny"
Post by: 90LX_Notch on May 10, 2017, 05:57:32 PM
Crankshaft: Finished

Here is the Crankshaft in it's finished state sans a tiny more deburring.

I don't have time now, but later this evening I'll post up about milling the counter weights.

-Bob
Title: Re: 1st I.C. build "Tiny"
Post by: crueby on May 10, 2017, 06:41:22 PM
Crankshaft: Beautiful!
Title: Re: 1st I.C. build "Tiny"
Post by: b.lindsey on May 10, 2017, 08:48:14 PM
That looks perfect to Me Bob.....well done!!

Bill
Title: Re: 1st I.C. build "Tiny"
Post by: zeeprogrammer on May 11, 2017, 12:57:17 AM
Yes indeed. Perfect.  :ThumbsUp:
Title: Re: 1st I.C. build "Tiny"
Post by: gbritnell on May 11, 2017, 01:43:54 AM
Great looking crank Bob! If you can machine a crank the other pieces should be a piece of cake.
gbritnell
Title: Re: 1st I.C. build "Tiny"
Post by: 90LX_Notch on May 11, 2017, 02:14:32 AM
Thank you very much Chris, Bill, Carl and George.



Crankshaft appended:

Milling the webb down to form the counterweights had some challenges to it.  Holding it so that the crankshaft did not get "tweaked" was the first one.  I elected to use packing and hold it in the vise.  The big challenge was orienting the crankpin so that it's axis was aligned in the same plane as the shafts in Z. 

There was nothing to square off of.  Finally it dawned on me to indicate the shafts to the crankpin. The indicator was mounted in the spindle and Z axis was lowered until the highspot of the side of the shaft was found (1st picture).  The indicator was zeroed and the crankpin was then indicated in the same manner.  Any difference would indicate that the crankpin was leaning to the side and adjustment was needed.  This process was repeated on the other side of the shaft to compensate for any variation between the shaft and crankpin diameters until alignment was achieved (2nd picture).

Next a 1/8 diameter endmill was used.  I used a small endmill to reduce the chances of the endmill grabbing the webb and moving the entire crankshaft and ruining it.  It took longer, with a lot of steps being milled, but the crankshaft made it without getting damaged.

The nice looking finish was obtained by filing.  A "safety" file (edge teeth ground off) was clamped to the bench and the crankshaft was carefully slid along the file to remove the tool marks.

-Bob

Title: Re: 1st I.C. build "Tiny"
Post by: Dave Otto on May 11, 2017, 02:31:55 AM
Very nice work Bob, the crankshaft turned out beautiful!

Dave
Title: Re: 1st I.C. build "Tiny"
Post by: Flyboy Jim on May 11, 2017, 03:37:12 AM
The crankshaft looks great Bob! Good documentation as well!  :ThumbsUp:

Jim
Title: Re: 1st I.C. build "Tiny"
Post by: 90LX_Notch on May 11, 2017, 05:25:22 PM
Thanks Dave and Jim your comments are appreciated.

Nothing really to show today.  I did saw two blanks for the flywheels and started some plain bronze bearings for the crankshaft.  Start is an understatement.  One pass with the turning tool was all. 

-Bob
Title: Re: 1st I.C. build "Tiny"
Post by: 90LX_Notch on May 12, 2017, 10:57:49 PM
Bearings:

I made a couple of bronze bearings for the crankshaft.  Hopefully, I can sneak some time this weekend and get going on the flywheels.

-Bob
Title: Re: 1st I.C. build "Tiny"
Post by: b.lindsey on May 12, 2017, 11:32:25 PM
Nice, progress us still progress Bob.

Bill
Title: Re: 1st I.C. build "Tiny"
Post by: 90LX_Notch on May 13, 2017, 02:18:37 AM
You are right Bill.  I'm getting so close; the finish line is in sight, but my momentum is slowing due to family related stuff. 

-Bob
Title: Re: 1st I.C. build "Tiny"
Post by: 90LX_Notch on May 17, 2017, 12:48:29 AM
Flywheels:

I decided to use George's flywheel design.  This is a great exercise in rotary table manuevers.  There is much more going on then first appears.

So far I have the blanks rough turned and am currently working on the spokes for the first one.  I don't have any cast iron in the required size, so I am using steel. 

The first step necessary was to remove as much material as possible by drilling.  This consisted of drilling several different sized holes in what is the open area inbetween the spokes.

Currently I am milling the radii along the inside of the rim.  The last picture shows one radius roughed milled. 

-Bob
Title: Re: 1st I.C. build "Tiny"
Post by: b.lindsey on May 17, 2017, 01:06:21 AM
Looking good Bob. One almost down and one to go. I've still got a good bit of filing and polishing to do on mine. Good to see more progress though.

Bill
Title: Re: 1st I.C. build "Tiny"
Post by: Flyboy Jim on May 17, 2017, 03:41:50 AM
Good start on the flywheel Bob. I really like that fixture plate and the method you used for holding the flywheel up off the table.  :ThumbsUp:

Jim
Title: Re: 1st I.C. build "Tiny"
Post by: 90LX_Notch on May 17, 2017, 02:17:02 PM
Thanks Bill.  There is a lot of work to these.  Much more than I anticipated.


Thanks Jim.  I can't clamp many things to the rt.  It was damaged sometime in it's life from an endmill that slipped from a collet.  It has a nice ramp milled in the table.  I can't complain about it; it was given to me shortly after I started in this hobby.   

The fixture plate is the handiest shop made tooling that I have.  It really gets me out of tight spots.  After this build, I need to make some additional items for it.

-Bob
Title: Re: 1st I.C. build "Tiny"
Post by: b.lindsey on May 17, 2017, 02:37:32 PM
I hear you Bob, guess we should be thankful they aren't curved spoke flywheels :)

Bill
Title: Re: 1st I.C. build "Tiny"
Post by: Don1966 on May 17, 2017, 07:23:00 PM
Looking good Bob and still with you bud......... :ThumbsUp:


Don
Title: Re: 1st I.C. build "Tiny"
Post by: 90LX_Notch on May 17, 2017, 07:49:15 PM
I hear that Bill; though, I have often thought about curved spokes.  I have it "worked out, in my head atleast.  (Compound gears from the X axis screw to the Rt screw.)

Thanks for staying with me Don.  Your support is appreciated.

I'm hoping to get the first flywheel's spokes finished tonight.


-Bob
Title: Re: 1st I.C. build "Tiny"
Post by: 90LX_Notch on May 18, 2017, 05:44:17 PM
Flywheel continued:

The spokes for the first flywheel are done.  I am happy with the blends in the corners.  I got pretty close with them to cut down on blending by hand.

Since the smallest radius of the cut out sections is .062, a 3/32 (.093) end mill was used for the blending.  This gives a .047 working tool radius.  By using the smaller endmill, it is possible cut only the spoke and the transitions to the .062 radius corner without touching any part of the .062 radius.


Now I get to do the 2nd flywheel. 

-Bob
Title: Re: 1st I.C. build "Tiny"
Post by: b.lindsey on May 18, 2017, 06:51:26 PM
Looks great Bob. Are you going to recess the spokes between the hub and the rim as well?

Bill
Title: Re: 1st I.C. build "Tiny"
Post by: Doc on May 18, 2017, 07:39:22 PM
Bob still here on the side line watching looks good!  :ThumbsUp:
Title: Re: 1st I.C. build "Tiny"
Post by: zeeprogrammer on May 18, 2017, 11:06:27 PM
Also looking.
I've had little time lately to keep up with all the goings on around here.

Title: Re: 1st I.C. build "Tiny"
Post by: Dave Otto on May 18, 2017, 11:52:37 PM
Nice bit of rotary table work there Bob!

Dave
Title: Re: 1st I.C. build "Tiny
Post by: 90LX_Notch on May 19, 2017, 12:13:48 AM
Thanks Bill.  Yes I am going to recess the spokes.

Thanks Doc I'm glad that you are still here.

Thanks Carl. I understand time constraints.

Thanks Dave.  The rt work was enjoyable and nerve racking at the same time.  However, in the end, it was very rewarding.

-Bob
Title: Re: 1st I.C. build "Tiny"
Post by: Kim on May 19, 2017, 07:52:12 PM
Nice job on the spokes Bob.
Just curios as to why you did it in this order?  Cutting the spokes before cutting the recess in the flywheel.
I don't know that it matters much, I just like to understand people's reasoning because it usually points out things I didn't think about!
Kim
Title: Re: 1st I.C. build "Tiny"
Post by: 90LX_Notch on May 20, 2017, 02:01:05 AM
Thanks Kim. 

The reason for the order is two fold.  First, I've found that it is better to do the trickier operations early so that if something goes wrong, I have less time in the part if it is scrapped.   This was the biggest rotary table job, as far as planning and moves, that I have ever done.  I was very worried that I would make a wrong move and ruin the part.

Second, if you look at the picture,  there is a lot of air under the part.  Therefore, I wanted the part to be as rigid (thick) as possible when milling the cut out sections.  I was very afraid that things might distort with the material removal and the downward forces involved.

-Bob
Title: Re: 1st I.C. build "Tiny"
Post by: Kim on May 20, 2017, 05:49:39 AM
Thanks Bob,
I can understand that reasoning, but I was thinking I'd have done it the other way so it would have been easier to do the RT milling job on only 1/3 the thickness of metal.  But this way clearly has worked well for you.
It's interesting to see the different ways people approach the same thing, isn't it?
Kim
Title: Re: 1st I.C. build "Tiny"
Post by: 90LX_Notch on May 23, 2017, 05:38:45 PM
Flywheels continued:

I continue to crawl along with the flywheels. 

I finished the spokes for the second flywheel on the rotary table and it was time to move onto the recess area.  A fixture was made to mount the flywheels for turning that would allow for the flywheels to removed and remounted without losing concentricity.  It is a simple fixture that does not nearly reflect the amount of time that went into thinking it up.

The fixture is made from a 1 inch diameter piece of aluminum.  A 1/2 inch shank was turned so that it could be mounted in the biggest collet for the Atlas 618 lathe.  A pip was turned to a .200 diameter by a .300 length.  The pip was center drilled and threaded for a 2-56 flathead screw.

The fixture was then moved to the mill and the pip was slit down the middle.  Also, 2-56 threaded hole was drilled and tapped on the face of the fixture .400 from center.   The fixture was then remounted in the lathe and the pip was turned to .1875, which is the diameter of the bore of the flywheel hubs.

The fixture works by tighting the 2-56 flathead screw, which expands the pip in the flywheel bore just like an expanding mandrel.  The other 2-56 screw is used to keep the flywheel from slipping on the pip.  One critical thing for a fixture like this to work is a slight undercut where the pip meets the face of the fixture.  This eliminates any chamfer or radius from the tool that prevent the flywheel from mounting correctly.

At this point both flywheels are recessed on one side.  I hope to finish machining them tonight; then the hand work begins.

-Bob


Edit- Added pip undercut.
Title: Re: 1st I.C. build "Tiny"
Post by: b.lindsey on May 23, 2017, 05:52:41 PM
Those look great Bob, shouldn't be too awfully much hand work, just breaking the corners of the spokes some. Good to see more progress on your build too!!

Bill
Title: Re: 1st I.C. build "Tiny"
Post by: 90LX_Notch on May 24, 2017, 02:44:44 AM
Thanks Bill.  I still have to come up with a final way to mount them to the crankshaft.

-Bob
Title: Re: 1st I.C. build "Tiny"
Post by: b.lindsey on May 24, 2017, 04:11:18 AM
Bob, I went with set screws,  drilled 11 degrees off vertical. Got that done tonight and seems ok.

Bill
Title: Re: 1st I.C. build "Tiny"
Post by: zeeprogrammer on May 24, 2017, 12:58:42 PM
 :ThumbsUp:

Very good looking flywheels Bob.
Title: Re: 1st I.C. build "Tiny"
Post by: 90LX_Notch on May 24, 2017, 02:32:35 PM
Thanks Carl. 

-Bob
Title: Re: 1st I.C. build "Tiny"
Post by: 90LX_Notch on June 07, 2017, 03:06:13 PM
Just a quick update for anyone who is interested. 

This build isn't dead or on hold.  This time of the year I don't have much free time; so projects move at a very slow rate of progress.  Recent shop time has been spent working on solving a way to accurately index for cutting the gears for Tiny.  I believe I have that solved and am currently working on making a gear hob.  Once the hob is complete, and if it works, I will post the process here.

-Bob
Title: Re: 1st I.C. build "Tiny"
Post by: b.lindsey on June 07, 2017, 05:17:29 PM
Bob, I have no doubt but that your hob will do fine, but if you change your mind and want to borrow the involute cutters just let me know. I wasn't as confident as you so made the gears first (twice in fact), then played around with the ctc spacing until they seemed to mesh easily but not sloppy, and then drilled the cam gear hole in the frame based on those tests. I think in the end I deviated by .005" from the plans.

Still eagerly watching your progress.

Bill
Title: Re: 1st I.C. build "Tiny"
Post by: 90LX_Notch on June 07, 2017, 05:32:05 PM
Thanks for the offer for the use of the cutters Bill.  I very much appreciate it.

Not confident, more like stupid looking back at it.  I didn't think that little detail through.  Live and learn.


-Bob
Title: Re: 1st I.C. build "Tiny"
Post by: b.lindsey on June 07, 2017, 05:42:49 PM
Nah, you should be fine Bob. I suspect my gear tooth depth may have been the issue even though that was corrected I thought the second time around.

Bill
Title: Re: 1st I.C. build "Tiny"
Post by: 90LX_Notch on July 24, 2017, 07:13:03 PM
Since shop time is so valuable at this time, I put the gears on hold and have been chipping away at the connecting rod.



Connecting Rod:

The connecting rod started off as two seperate pieces of material.  The cap and body were fitted by hand for a tight fit before being clamped in the vice.  The screw holes were then drilled and tapped.  The assembly was then setup on the mini pallet and the bores were spotted.  The pallet was then setup on the faceplate of the Rivett and bored.  (Unfortunately, I did not take any pictures of the lathe work.)

Next the split bearing was turned in the Atlas 618.  The od was gaged with the connecting rod and the id was gaged with a shop made gage.  Next the bearing stock was setup in the mill and milled to .002 over half of the required diameter.  Two bearings were then cut from the bearing stock.  The bearings were then carefully hand finished. 

To get the required angle for the connecting rod pins were placed in the bores.  A pin that is one half the difference of the two bores was placed under the pin at the piston end of the connecting rod.  It's a simple way to get a nice transition angle from the big end to the small end.  A vice stop was used so that the conncecting rod could be flipped over and both sides milled.  Then a measurement can be taken and the final cut can be made to achieve the required thickness at the small end.

The last picture shows where the connecting rod is at this point in time.   I should note that I pinned the lower bearing and provided an oil hole through cap and upper bearing.

-Bob
Title: Re: 1st I.C. build "Tiny"
Post by: b.lindsey on July 24, 2017, 07:43:38 PM
Great to see you back on the Tiny build Bob. I have had a blast running it if only for my own amusement and I know you will too. Still here in the cheering section for you :)

Bill
Title: Re: 1st I.C. build "Tiny"
Post by: gbritnell on July 24, 2017, 10:23:39 PM
HI Bob,
Like Bill said, good to see you back making chips. I'm sure it won't be too long before it all comes together.
gbritnell
Title: Re: 1st I.C. build "Tiny"
Post by: 90LX_Notch on July 24, 2017, 10:31:27 PM
Thanks Bill and George.  Your support is greatly appreciated.  Where the rod stands right now took about five weeks.  Shop time is so limited right now.  I'm just chipping away at the stone now.  Every little chip will get me closer.

-Bob
Title: Re: 1st I.C. build "Tiny"
Post by: steamer on July 25, 2017, 03:39:11 AM
Keep at it Notch!

I'm still watching too!

Dave
Title: Re: 1st I.C. build "Tiny"
Post by: 90LX_Notch on July 25, 2017, 07:53:50 PM
Thanks Dave, much appreciated.


Connecting Rod continued:

I had an chance to get in the shop last night and finish the small end of the connecting rod.  I did it much like I did the rocker arm as far as turning the boss on the Atlas.  The rest of the radius/profile was done with the Dremel mounted in the Atlas and cutting on the tangent of the small end diameter.  Then it was handwork to get a decent finish.

The picture has the m&m for size reference.  Now I just need to make the bushing for the small end and some proper 1-72 hex bolts.

-Bob
Title: Re: 1st I.C. build "Tiny"
Post by: b.lindsey on July 25, 2017, 08:23:59 PM
One more step done Bob and it looks good too!!!  Glad you are getting some shop time even in small increments.

Bill
Title: Re: 1st I.C. build "Tiny"
Post by: Ye-Ole Steam Dude on July 25, 2017, 09:13:04 PM
Beautiful machine work, really enjoy following along.
Title: Re: 1st I.C. build "Tiny"
Post by: Tennessee Whiskey on July 25, 2017, 09:57:23 PM
I'm following along. Everything is looking great; don't worry about a "production schedule " , it's a hobby  :lolb:. Where do y'all find those big M&Ms  :shrug:

Cletus
Title: Re: 1st I.C. build "Tiny"
Post by: Dave Otto on July 26, 2017, 12:45:48 AM
Really nice work on the rod Bob; I especially like the tiny split bearing!

Dave
Title: Re: 1st I.C. build "Tiny"
Post by: 90LX_Notch on July 26, 2017, 09:38:42 AM
Thanks Bill.  I had to strike while the iron was hot so to say.

Thanks Thomas for following along.  I appreciate it.

Eric, there isn't any production schedule; just a desire to finish this engine.  As far as the "big" m&m goes, well, that is a trade secret....

Thanks Dave for your support. The split bearing is from George's connecting rod design.


-Bob
Title: Re: 1st I.C. build "Tiny"
Post by: Roger B on August 01, 2017, 08:54:34 PM
I'm still following along with interest  :ThumbsUp:  :ThumbsUp:  :wine1:
Title: Re: 1st I.C. build "Tiny"
Post by: 90LX_Notch on August 01, 2017, 10:19:30 PM
Thanks Roger for your continued interest.

-Bob
Title: Re: 1st I.C. build "Tiny"
Post by: Nick_G on August 01, 2017, 11:01:44 PM
Where do y'all find those big M&Ms 

Cletus
.
They have them here in the UK  :D

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3P3evQG05dA

Nick
Title: Re: 1st I.C. build "Tiny"
Post by: Don1966 on August 02, 2017, 12:09:57 AM
Bob I haven't been saying much but following you buddy. Work looks great keep at it.... :ThumbsUp:


 :cheers:
Don
Title: Re: 1st I.C. build "Tiny"
Post by: steamer on August 02, 2017, 12:43:52 AM
Keep it coming home slice!   8)


Dave
Title: Re: 1st I.C. build "Tiny"
Post by: 90LX_Notch on August 02, 2017, 09:44:07 PM
That's funny Nick.

Don thanks.  I'm staying at it.  I just can't find the time right now.

I'm trying Dave. I'm trying.  I spent my day off machining exhaust flanges for my dad's car.  They want $1,300.00 for the factory flexpipe.  They're going to weld a universal flexpipe to the flange(s) I made.


-Bob
Title: Re: 1st I.C. build "Tiny"
Post by: zeeprogrammer on August 02, 2017, 11:36:54 PM
Apologies Bob...I gotta sneak this one in...

Where do y'all find those big M&Ms  :shrug:

Even better are Minstrels! Essentially a giant M&M. Made by the same company. But creamier and sweeter.
I used to work for Mars. It used to be that some candies, sold in Europe, were not available here.
Now, with the internet etc., you can get almost anything.

Part of the reason for not offering certain candies in a market was the difference in preferences.
Europeans tended to go for creamy sweet while Americans tended towards a slightly more bitter taste.
Think of the difference between Godiva and Hershey.

Then again, sometimes they sold the same (or nearly the same) candy under a different name.

When I moved back to the states I was devastated I couldn't find a Mars bar. It was years before I found out a Milky Way was essentially the same thing.

Now here is where some of you start pointing out I'm wrong. Your idea of a Mars bar or Milky Way may differ.
Don't care. I'll stick with my memory.  ;D

Title: Re: 1st I.C. build "Tiny"
Post by: crueby on August 03, 2017, 12:07:27 AM
Apologies Bob...I gotta sneak this one in...

Where do y'all find those big M&Ms  :shrug:

Even better are Minstrels! Essentially a giant M&M. Made by the same company. But creamier and sweeter.
I used to work for Mars. It used to be that some candies, sold in Europe, were not available here.
Now, with the internet etc., you can get almost anything.

Part of the reason for not offering certain candies in a market was the difference in preferences.
Europeans tended to go for creamy sweet while Americans tended towards a slightly more bitter taste.
Think of the difference between Godiva and Hershey.

Then again, sometimes they sold the same (or nearly the same) candy under a different name.

When I moved back to the states I was devastated I couldn't find a Mars bar. It was years before I found out a Milky Way was essentially the same thing.

Now here is where some of you start pointing out I'm wrong. Your idea of a Mars bar or Milky Way may differ.
Don't care. I'll stick with my memory.  ;D
Are these the ones you mean?
Title: Re: 1st I.C. build "Tiny"
Post by: zeeprogrammer on August 03, 2017, 01:29:56 AM
Yes. Maybe. I recall the ones I get in the UK are in a black package. But they could have changed it. Or you got an American version.
Sometimes the same product is simply packaged differently for different markets.
Title: Re: 1st I.C. build "Tiny"
Post by: 90LX_Notch on August 17, 2017, 02:26:39 PM
Connecting Rod Complete:

I stole some shop time and finished up the connecting rod.  The bushing for the small end was a straight forward turning job.  The 1-72 bolts were done with my usual method as shown elsewhere in this thread. 

-Bob
Title: Re: 1st I.C. build "Tiny"
Post by: b.lindsey on August 17, 2017, 02:33:47 PM
Bob that looks great and happy you found some shop time. I know you are working from Putputman's plan and I am not looking at them at the moment...just wondering if the square part of the connecting rod between the big and small ends will clear the rear opening of the cylinder. In the hybrid design including George's modifications, the clearance there isn't very much!

Bill
Title: Re: 1st I.C. build "Tiny"
Post by: 90LX_Notch on August 17, 2017, 03:52:43 PM
Wow Bill! 

Did you hear the air leave my lungs down there in in N.C.?  I was sitting in the car waiting for my son at Cross Country practice when I read your reply.  What really scared me is the fact that my crank is located .100 closer to the cylinder then what the print calls for due to a foul-up.  As soon as I got home I assembled everything.  Thank goodness, it is all seems good!

Air has re-entered my lungs and my heart has begun pumping again.
 
-Bob
Title: Re: 1st I.C. build "Tiny"
Post by: b.lindsey on August 17, 2017, 05:43:01 PM
Sorry Bob, wasn't trying to give you heart-failure I promise. Just thought it might be something you wanted to check , but very happy it isn't an issue for you.

Bill
Title: Re: 1st I.C. build "Tiny"
Post by: 90LX_Notch on August 17, 2017, 09:38:42 PM
Absolutely no problem Bill.  It would have been better to findout now rather than later.

-Bob
Title: Re: 1st I.C. build "Tiny"
Post by: 90LX_Notch on August 20, 2017, 02:48:12 AM
Cylinder-

I turned the cylinder awhile back.  I used a shop made expanding mandrel to make sure that the ods were concentric to the id.  Unfortunately, I didn't take any pictures.

I have elected to use a lapped cylinder and piston; therefore, I need a lap.  So, another first, making a lap.  I have a bunch of tapered brass pins and matching reamer and figured that they would be a good starting point.

A piece of .500 aluminum was bored and reamed.  While it was still in the collet a tapered pin was inserted and a .250 diameter was turned to allow the tapered pin to be placed in a collet and act as the mandrel for the lap.

The .500 was rough turned to .380.  The x axis of the Spin Indexer was then offset for the taper and five slots were cut .030 deep with a .025 slitting saw.  The sixth slot was cut through to allow the lap to expand.

This is where I am at tonight.  Hopefully, somewhere in the next few days I can finish the lap and give it a try.  I have to give Ramon credit for the inspiration for the lap. 
 
-Bob
Title: Re: 1st I.C. build "Tiny"
Post by: 90LX_Notch on August 22, 2017, 11:18:26 PM
Cylinder complete:

I finished the lap and gave it a try with 320 grit.  It certainly achieved a nice finish.  I'm actually worried about the finish being too good.  It might be too fine for oil retention.  At this point I don't know how the geometry of the cylinder is.  I assume that it is round and cylindrical based on how even the finish appears.


-Bob
Title: Re: 1st I.C. build "Tiny"
Post by: b.lindsey on August 22, 2017, 11:34:57 PM
That looks very smooth Bob. I hope it works out for you. I ended up going with an o-ring as you know. I did try a lapped finish, but my skills ( or patience) weren't up to the task apparently.

Bill
Title: Re: 1st I.C. build "Tiny"
Post by: Dave Otto on August 23, 2017, 02:08:45 AM
Looks nice Bob!


Dave
Title: Re: 1st I.C. build "Tiny"
Post by: 90LX_Notch on August 23, 2017, 10:11:36 PM
Thanks Bill.  I don't know if I have lapping skills either.

Thanks Dave and thanks for tuning in.


-Bob
Title: Re: 1st I.C. build "Tiny"
Post by: steamer on August 24, 2017, 11:33:27 AM
Cylinder-

I turned the cylinder awhile back.  I used a shop made expanding mandrel to make sure that the ods were concentric to the id.  Unfortunately, I didn't take any pictures.

I have elected to use a lapped cylinder and piston; therefore, I need a lap.  So, another first, making a lap.  I have a bunch of tapered brass pins and matching reamer and figured that they would be a good starting point.

A piece of .500 aluminum was bored and reamed.  While it was still in the collet a tapered pin was inserted and a .250 diameter was turned to allow the tapered pin to be placed in a collet and act as the mandrel for the lap.

The .500 was rough turned to .380.  The x axis of the Spin Indexer was then offset for the taper and five slots were cut .030 deep with a .025 slitting saw.  The sixth slot was cut through to allow the lap to expand.

This is where I am at tonight.  Hopefully, somewhere in the next few days I can finish the lap and give it a try.  I have to give Ramon credit for the inspiration for the lap. 
 
-Bob

Looking good Bob, there was a great lapping article by Ramon a good ways back...dig it up, it's not that hard to do well.

Dave
Title: Re: 1st I.C. build "Tiny"
Post by: 90LX_Notch on August 24, 2017, 11:45:16 PM
Thanks Dave.  I had looked at Ramon's article prior to making the lap.   I drew from his article and Don Baily's (Suburban Tool) video for guidance.

-Bob.
Title: Re: 1st I.C. build "Tiny"
Post by: 90LX_Notch on September 12, 2017, 12:42:49 AM
Quick update:

For those who don't know, for several years I have worked summers at a water park in the maintenance department.  Our season ended September 4th and I was planning on making a bunch of progress with "Tiny".  Well, life throws changes at you all the time.  A maintenance position opened up in my community and I started September 5th.  So after 13 and half years of being a stay at home dad, I have rejoined the workforce.  This job allows me to get the kids on the bus in the morning and afternoon.  This aspect was a major stumbling block for my my return to work. Couple that with snow related closures and delays, etc. and it was impossible for me to return to work.  All of that is covered with this job because I am in my community during my shift.  The only bummer is, if there is any snow for Cabin Fever I can't make it because I have to plow roads.

So, my progress for this engine will remain at a slow pace.  I did start the piston yesterday.  I managed to get the od turned before I had to stop for family matters.

-Bob
Title: Re: 1st I.C. build "Tiny"
Post by: Dave Otto on September 12, 2017, 01:08:50 AM
Congrats on the new job Bob!
That's great that you were able to be home for your kids in their early years.

We will be here when you find time to work on engines and share your progress.


Dave
Title: Re: 1st I.C. build "Tiny"
Post by: b.lindsey on September 12, 2017, 01:10:40 AM
Congrats on the new job Bob. Life does get in the way at times but that takes precedence over hobbies. I'll be here whenever you get back to Tiny, and just as interested then as I am now. Best wishes in the new position.

Bill
Title: Re: 1st I.C. build "Tiny"
Post by: steamer on September 12, 2017, 01:55:01 AM
Congrats Bob!

Do what you gotta do....I've worked just about every day for the past 15....I hear ya.

Dave
Title: Re: 1st I.C. build "Tiny"
Post by: 90LX_Notch on September 12, 2017, 08:32:20 PM
Thank you gentlemen for the well wishes.  I have to say,  one finds out how old they are when they are working with people half their age.  I come home tired.  We have been limbing trees in preparation for plowing.  We have over 50 miles of roads that we maintain besides the pools, buildings, parks, etc. 

I plan to finish the piston this weekend if family "stuff" (or exhaustion) doesn't prevent shop time.


-Bob
Title: Re: 1st I.C. build "Tiny"
Post by: Tennessee Whiskey on September 12, 2017, 11:31:24 PM
Bob, well I guess I can say: " welcome back to the workforce" , but, there are days I sure would like to be that stay at home dad  :old:. You'll get back in the swing of things. One word of warning from one who employs youth: there are many things they are clueless about, but, getting someone else to do the majority of work isn't one of them. And they are good at it. Just saying. Anyhoo, make swarf when you can.

Cletus
Title: Re: 1st I.C. build "Tiny"
Post by: 90LX_Notch on September 13, 2017, 10:57:41 PM
Thanks Eric.  I have to say, these guys do work.


-Bob
Title: Re: 1st I.C. build "Tiny"
Post by: Tennessee Whiskey on September 14, 2017, 12:45:54 AM
That's great Bob. If their heart is really in it, they will usually work with us "old folks"

Cletus
Title: Re: 1st I.C. build "Tiny"
Post by: 90LX_Notch on September 24, 2017, 12:20:51 AM
I was lucky enough to get some shop time.


Piston:

The piston is pretty straight forward.  I made a lap and lapped it while it was still attached to the parent material.  Then it was parted off and the wrist pin bore was drilled and reamed and the pocket for the small end of the connecting rod was milled.  I wanted to ensure that the bore and pocket were perpendicular to each other.  The easiest way that I could come up with was to mount the piston in a small toolmaker's vice with a small vee block. 

A parallel was the bolted to the mill's table and indicated along X axis.  This gave me a datum to bank the toolmaker's vice off of.  The wrist pin bore was drilled and reamed to size first. This was done with the vice on it's side and clamped to the table against the parallel.  For the pocket, the vise was oriented as it normally would be and against the parallel.  This ensured that both the bore and the pocket's geometry were correct in relationship to each other.  The piston was then indicated to get true center and the pocket was milled.  A dowel pin was used to make the wrist pin.


-Bob
Title: Re: 1st I.C. build "Tiny"
Post by: b.lindsey on September 24, 2017, 12:55:28 AM
Glad to see some progress Bob. I know shop time has been hard to come by.

Bill
Title: Re: 1st I.C. build "Tiny"
Post by: 90LX_Notch on September 24, 2017, 06:39:59 PM
Thanks Bill.  You help keep the spirits alive.


Misc:

I pressed the cylinder into the frame.  The cylinder protruded .017 above the frame's face.  I set up in the lathe with an expanding mandrel in the cylinder and faced it flush to the frame.  I had earlier discovered that the head would not fit the cylinder.  Rather than turn the head, I elected to open the first .070 of the cylinder .001 to fit the head.  Once a nice fit was accomplished the holes for mounting the head were drilled an tapped in the frame.  I assembled everything and turned it over by hand. 

Everything seems good at this point.  The intake opens on the downstroke and there is compression on the upstroke.  I covered the intake port and the piston could not draw air and would pull back from the vacuum in the cylinder.  There is enough compression to stop the piston's travel and bounce it back.

Next will be the linkage, then the gears.  I still have to make the cutter for that one.  We are getting close boys.  Anyhow, here are a few family shots.

-Bob
Title: Re: 1st I.C. build "Tiny"
Post by: b.lindsey on September 24, 2017, 07:04:39 PM
Great family shots Bob. I wasn't sure exactly where you were and you are much closer that I though!!  Like you say, it shouldn't be too long now, shop time permitting. Very much looking forward to the first pops too!!!

Bill
Title: Re: 1st I.C. build "Tiny"
Post by: steamer on September 24, 2017, 10:09:35 PM
Coming along nicely Bob!

Dave

Title: Re: 1st I.C. build "Tiny"
Post by: Dave Otto on September 25, 2017, 12:59:20 AM
Everything looks great Bob!
Lots of very nice work represented in the family pictures.


Dave
Title: Re: 1st I.C. build "Tiny"
Post by: rudydubya on September 25, 2017, 01:16:49 AM
Looking good Bob.  Nice close-up pictures.  Looking forward to that first run.

Regards,
Rudy
Title: Re: 1st I.C. build "Tiny"
Post by: 90LX_Notch on September 25, 2017, 10:23:04 PM
Thanks so much for the kind words guys.  They are very much appreciated. 

-Bob
Title: Re: 1st I.C. build "Tiny"
Post by: b.lindsey on September 25, 2017, 10:36:51 PM
Bob, I found the taps I needed in my toolbox at work, but many thanks for the offer.

Bilk
Title: Re: 1st I.C. build "Tiny"
Post by: gbritnell on September 26, 2017, 12:19:06 AM
Boy that looks familiar! I can't wait to hear it popping away like mad.
gbritnell
Title: Re: 1st I.C. build "Tiny"
Post by: 90LX_Notch on September 26, 2017, 01:46:47 AM
Thank you George.  Your work and attention to detail has always been an inspiration for me. 

-Bob
Title: Re: 1st I.C. build "Tiny"
Post by: Don1966 on September 26, 2017, 05:33:19 PM
Beautiful work Bob and I bet you will be glad to hear that first pop..... :ThumbsUp:


 :cheers:
Don
Title: Re: 1st I.C. build "Tiny"
Post by: 90LX_Notch on September 29, 2017, 02:03:14 AM
Thanks Don.  I appreciate that you are still following along. The day she pops I will have a big smile.

-Bob
Title: Re: 1st I.C. build "Tiny"
Post by: 90LX_Notch on October 02, 2017, 11:50:44 PM
I had a very bad bout with my allergies Saturday that prevented me from getting in the shop.  The plan was to make the cutter and gears this weekend, that "went out the window" Saturday.    Feeling much better Sunday I knocked off a few little items. 


Misc.: Linkage rod end,  rod end pin and gas cap. 


I have additional pictures that I will post once the batteries for the camera recharge.


-Bob
Title: Re: 1st I.C. build "Tiny"
Post by: b.lindsey on October 02, 2017, 11:53:20 PM
It's still progress Bob, glad your allergies are better too!!

Bill
Title: Re: 1st I.C. build "Tiny"
Post by: steamer on October 03, 2017, 12:54:57 AM
It's coming along nicely Bob!    I'll get back to mine eventually.....

Dave
Title: Re: 1st I.C. build "Tiny"
Post by: 90LX_Notch on October 04, 2017, 11:39:16 PM
Thanks Bill.  Luckily, I only have a few bouts a year with my allergies.

Thanks Dave.  You have to finish yours; then one day at a future Cabin Fever we can get a picture of the three of us with our Tinys.


Here are the pictures I mentioned above of the parts installed.  I also included a picture of drilling a .0135 (#80) diameter cross hole in the pin. 

As mentioned earlier in this thread, I have a piece of scrap aluminum that I use for doing this that has a couple of 10-32 threaded holes for clamps.  I mill a fresh surface on the scrap, then cut a small vee shaped groove with a center dril along one axis.  The other axis is locked for this and remains locked.  This creates a vee  for the pin to lay in that is 100% aligned and centered to the spindle.  The pin is then clamped in the vee and the edge is picked up with an edge finder, then the hole position is located.  A small center drill is used to make a very small spot.  The drill is held in a modified pinvise (indicated in the four jaw and a section of the knurl was removed and turned to .250).  The pinvise is held in a 1/4 inch collet in the mill.  Then the drilling begins.  I backout and clear the chips every .010.  This particular exercise was five diameters through steel.

-Bob
Title: Re: 1st I.C. build "Tiny"
Post by: b.lindsey on October 05, 2017, 12:51:15 AM
Looking good Bob!!  I didn't put a cap on the fuel tank filler tube, but its probably a good idea.

Bill
Title: Re: 1st I.C. build "Tiny"
Post by: Dave Otto on October 05, 2017, 01:23:06 AM
Very nice work Bob,

Do you run into the problem where the chisel point of the center drill is larger than the drill that you intend to use? I have often wondered about this.
Also about the pin chuck, I'm not clear exactly how you are indicating it in? Do you do this in the lathe and then transfer it to the mill? If you have some time I would like to better understand your process.

Again, very nice work!
Dave
Title: Re: 1st I.C. build "Tiny"
Post by: 90LX_Notch on October 05, 2017, 01:48:17 AM
Dave years ago I modified two A size pin vises by turning part of the knurl off each.  They were held the four jaw chuck and indicated near where the Starrett logo is roll stamped.  The attached picture shows a stock B size pin vise and one of my modified A size pin vises.  You can see where I removed the knurl.  This area was turned to .250 so that the pin vise can be held in a collet when in use.  The joke of it all is that I found out later that Starrett does offer pin vises that are not knurled in the same area. 

If you have any other questions feel free to ask.


-Bob
Title: Re: 1st I.C. build "Tiny"
Post by: steamer on October 05, 2017, 01:54:04 AM
Dave years ago I modified two A size pin vises by turning part of the knurl off each.  They were held the four jaw chuck and indicated near where the Starrett logo is roll stamped.  The attached picture shows a stock B size pin vise and one of my modified A size pin vises.  You can see where I removed the knurl.  This area was turned to .250 so that the pin vise can be held in a collet when in use.  The joke of it all is that I found out later that Starrett does offer pin vises that are not knurled in the same area. 

If you have any other questions feel free to ask.


-Bob

I just picked up a 162C for the Watchmakers lathe,   I'll be machining the back of it to fit the tailstock runner on the Levin....relative to the collet.

Dave
Title: Re: 1st I.C. build "Tiny"
Post by: 90LX_Notch on October 05, 2017, 01:59:39 AM
Dave, sorry I forgot to answer your first question.  I have a couple very small center drills that have something like a .020 nose on them.  What I basically do is put some black Sharpie where I am going to spot and watch the center drill come down to the part through a 10x loupe.  As soon as I see metal dust appear on the Sharpie I backoff.  This makes a very small spot.

-Bob   
Title: Re: 1st I.C. build "Tiny"
Post by: 90LX_Notch on October 05, 2017, 02:07:53 AM
Dave (steamer)- The only thing you have to watch is that the collet nut on the pin vise can easily thread up unevenly which causes the jaws to not close equally, causing the drill to not be true.  When running it in a spindle, it is very apparent when this happens because the drill flutes will look like a DNA chain.  There have been times when I have loosened the nut and indexed the drill and retightened the nut for 10 plus minutes just to get a small drill to run dead true.

-Bob
Title: Re: 1st I.C. build "Tiny"
Post by: Dave Otto on October 06, 2017, 02:17:35 AM
Thanks for the explanation Bob.
I guess I'm still wondering what guys do when the drill is smaller than the chisel point of the center or spotting drill?
What if, say you were needing to drill a .005" orifice in a propane jet? Even the smallest center drill has it's limitations.

Dave

Title: Re: 1st I.C. build "Tiny"
Post by: Hugh Currin on October 06, 2017, 05:26:29 AM
Dave:

Maybe if you had a really small "spot" drill. Something like   this one which is 0.10mm (0.0039"). (http://atomprecision.com/products/guide-hole-drills/adpf30-0010.html) They make them  down to
0.03mm (0.0012"). (http://atomprecision.com/products/guide-hole-drills/adpf30-0003.html) But then there's the problem of affording one. :-0

Disclaimer: I don't own stock and haven't ordered from them. They just popped up in an Internet search. Could be vapor ware. :-)

Thanks for the explanation Bob.
I guess I'm still wondering what guys do when the drill is smaller than the chisel point of the center or spotting drill?
What if, say you were needing to drill a .005" orifice in a propane jet? Even the smallest center drill has it's limitations.

Dave

Hugh Currin
Klamath Falls, OR, USA
Title: Re: 1st I.C. build "Tiny"
Post by: 90LX_Notch on October 08, 2017, 06:42:21 PM
Thanks for the explanation Bob.
I guess I'm still wondering what guys do when the drill is smaller than the chisel point of the center or spotting drill?
What if, say you were needing to drill a .005" orifice in a propane jet? Even the smallest center drill has it's limitations.

Dave


Great question Dave.  I don't know.  I haven't drilled anything below #80.  If my usual method didn't work, I'd most likely sharpen a sewing needle to a very fine point with India and oil stones and try that.  The idea being, to just make a small impression that the drill could pick up. 

-Bob
Title: Re: 1st I.C. build "Tiny"
Post by: Mosey on October 12, 2017, 01:15:20 PM
How about first a tiny pin prick with an optical center punch, then the tiny center drill before attempting to drill very small holes? This optical punch works for me and I bought 2 of them years ago when they were affordable.

Mosey
SPI - 3/8" Tempered Steel Optical Center Punch
2-3/4" OAL
MSC Part #: 93712990
Title: Re: 1st I.C. build "Tiny"
Post by: 90LX_Notch on October 14, 2017, 07:50:48 PM
Mosey-

Don't forget that Dave was talking about a .005 diameter drill bit and it's chisel point.  I doubt the tip of any punch is that small.

-Bob
Title: Re: 1st I.C. build "Tiny"
Post by: 90LX_Notch on October 14, 2017, 07:55:18 PM
Zero progress to report on Tiny.  Last weekend was full of family stuff and today I am having another bad allergy day.  I am beginning to think that I am cursed as far as making this gear cutter!  Each time I plan on making it, something derails the plan.


-Bob
Title: Re: 1st I.C. build "Tiny"
Post by: b.lindsey on October 14, 2017, 10:03:19 PM
Hang in there Bob. It's not a race after all. I have been running mine all weekend at our antique engine show, and can claim the smallest hit and miss here, amongst the full size farm engines.

Bill
Title: Re: 1st I.C. build "Tiny"
Post by: 90LX_Notch on October 17, 2017, 02:57:12 AM
Thanks Bill.  It's just been a very long race.  The finish line is close.

-Bob
Title: Re: 1st I.C. build "Tiny"
Post by: 90LX_Notch on October 17, 2017, 03:07:00 AM
Update:

I started the gear hob yesterday.  I've been having trouble with the 29 degree form tool.  So far, I have broken the tip off three times.  Given that it is for a 48 pitch, 14.5 pa hob, the tip is very small ( a few thousandths) and very delicate.  I have a few more things to try before I go another route.

-Bob
Title: Re: 1st I.C. build "Tiny"
Post by: b.lindsey on October 17, 2017, 11:37:56 AM
Bob, I will be happy to let you borrow the cutter(s) I have for this job, just let me know.

Bill
Title: Re: 1st I.C. build "Tiny"
Post by: 90LX_Notch on October 17, 2017, 09:48:48 PM
That might be my best Bill; if you don't mind lending them out.

-Bob
Title: Re: 1st I.C. build "Tiny"
Post by: b.lindsey on October 18, 2017, 12:23:54 AM
Bob, here is what I have. 48 pitch, 14.5 PA, one cutter for 14-16 teeth and one for 26-34 teeth. Both have a 7/8" hole, so you may have to make a mandrel. I made a bushing so I could fit them to the sherline cutter arbor which I think is for a 1/2" hole. I still have your p.o. Box address if that will work.

Bill
Title: Re: 1st I.C. build "Tiny"
Post by: 90LX_Notch on October 18, 2017, 12:45:24 AM
Thanks Bill so very much.  Yes the POB will work fine. 

-Bob
Title: Re: 1st I.C. build "Tiny"
Post by: b.lindsey on October 18, 2017, 12:57:43 AM
Will get them out to you tomorrow then.

Bill
Title: Re: 1st I.C. build "Tiny"
Post by: 90LX_Notch on October 18, 2017, 02:09:19 AM
Thanks Bill.  You rock!

-Bob
Title: Re: 1st I.C. build "Tiny"
Post by: steamer on October 18, 2017, 11:30:20 AM
Looking good Bob!
Title: Re: 1st I.C. build "Tiny"
Post by: 90LX_Notch on October 29, 2017, 03:16:54 PM
Thanks Dave.

Update:  Bill was nice enough to lend me the necessary gear cutters for this project.  I finished up the arbor for the cutters last night.  The plan was to make the gears this weekend; but prepping for this weekend's rain event killed shop time.  Also, I have to work the next three Sundays.  Sunday is always my most productive shop day and they have me working 2:00-7:00.


-Bob
Title: Re: 1st I.C. build "Tiny"
Post by: b.lindsey on October 29, 2017, 03:20:29 PM
Bummer on the work schedule Bob, but it's nice to be needed too. Hope the rain misses you!!

Bill
Title: Re: 1st I.C. build "Tiny"
Post by: 90LX_Notch on November 05, 2017, 05:54:18 PM
So after getting through last week's rain event I managed to steal some shop time this busy weekend.

I finally have a gear.  I did goof one Friday night on the start of the last series of indexes thus wiping out one complete tooth.  I made another blank yesterday and successfully cut my first gear this morning.



Here is a little tip that some may not know:

Since the gear blank was reamed for a tight fit, and it needed a threaded cross hole, I did not want to leave a burr on the bore of the gear blank.  A tight fitting plug was turned from aluminum and inserted into the bore of the gear blank.  The required tap hole was then drilled and tapped.  The plug was then removed leaving nearly a burr free hole.  The picture shows the cross hole, as drilled and tapped, without any kind of deburring.


-Bob
Title: Re: 1st I.C. build "Tiny"
Post by: b.lindsey on November 05, 2017, 06:05:33 PM
Good to see some progress Bob. You should be getting close now!!

Bill
Title: Re: 1st I.C. build "Tiny"
Post by: 90LX_Notch on November 05, 2017, 06:23:45 PM
I'm shooting for next weekend Bill.  Hopefully, I can get the next gear and cam cut during the week.  That is the "biggie" of the remaining stuff. My wife got me the ignition for my birthday, so it is just finishing off some of the small misc. stuff like the fuel line and set screws for the flywheels, etc.  Unfortunately, working these few Sundays, I will have lost 15 potential shop hours.  In my world that is like losing 15 years!  I am heading out for work in the next couple of minutes.

-Bob
Title: Re: 1st I.C. build "Tiny"
Post by: rudydubya on November 05, 2017, 08:59:45 PM
Nice job on the gear, Bob.  Still following along.  If you took any pictures of the arbor you made for the cutters, I would be interested in seeing how you made it.

Regards,
Rudy
Title: Re: 1st I.C. build "Tiny"
Post by: gbritnell on November 05, 2017, 11:45:08 PM
Every piece gets closer to completion Bob. I'm still following along.
gbritnell
Title: Re: 1st I.C. build "Tiny"
Post by: 90LX_Notch on November 06, 2017, 01:36:09 AM
Thanks for still following along Rudy and George.  I can't believe that I am closing in on the end.

Rudy, I'll take some pictures tomorrow and post them here for you.  It is nothing complicated.

-Bob
Title: Re: 1st I.C. build "Tiny"
Post by: Don1966 on November 06, 2017, 05:05:45 PM
Havenít been saying much lately Bob but still with you bud. Every piece looks great no matter how long it takes itís the end results that count.... :ThumbsUp:

 :cheers:
Don
Title: Re: 1st I.C. build "Tiny"
Post by: 90LX_Notch on November 06, 2017, 10:57:05 PM
Thanks for staying with me Don.


Rudy the arbor is made from .500 diameter rod salvaged from a printer with a 1.000 diameter piece of scrap pressed onto it.  A set screw was also user to ensure that the 1.000 diameter could not slip on the .500 shank.  An .875 shoulder was turned for the thickness of the cutters plus an additional .020 for the cap to locate on.  A 1/8 x 3/4 Woodruff key seat was cut and the appropriate key was installed to drive the cutter.  A straight key could also be used.  I kept the drive part of the key small, so that it would shear if anything went wrong since I borrowed the cutters from Bill. The Allan head screw is 10-32.  If anything is unclear, feel free to ask questions.

-Bob
Title: Re: 1st I.C. build "Tiny"
Post by: b.lindsey on November 06, 2017, 11:43:00 PM
Nice job on the arbor Bob. Thanks for the pictures of it.

Bill
Title: Re: 1st I.C. build "Tiny"
Post by: rudydubya on November 07, 2017, 07:50:11 AM
Thanks for the excellent pictures and clear explanation of the arbor, Bob.  Much appreciated.  I've got a couple of arbors on my to-do list, I'll bookmark yours for reference.

Regards,
Rudy
Title: Re: 1st I.C. build "Tiny"
Post by: 90LX_Notch on November 11, 2017, 07:00:21 PM
Gald that it is of help Rudy.

-Bob
Title: Re: 1st I.C. build "Tiny"
Post by: 90LX_Notch on November 11, 2017, 07:17:38 PM
Absolutely No Joy this weekend!


Well, in a brain fart moment, I wasted a couple of hours of work on the Cam and Gear blank.  During the week I did a little here and there on the blank getting ready for today.  After figuring it all out, I started cutting the cam today.  Everything was going well and then it happened.... Scrapped blank, trashed endmill, etc.  Now I have to go over the mill. The 3/4" material was ripped out the 5C collet in the Spin Index.  I'm sure it is out of tram; I just hope nothing else got tweeked.

It's funny.  I don't think I lost one part during this build up until the gear mishap last week and now this.  As they say, "It is what it is."  I'll regroup and get back on it.  For now, I think that I'll pickoff all of the loose ends and try for the cam/gear again next weekend.


-Bob
Title: Re: 1st I.C. build "Tiny"
Post by: b.lindsey on November 11, 2017, 07:43:34 PM
Stuff happens Bob. All you can do is regroup and press on. Is the blank steel or brass?

Bill
Title: Re: 1st I.C. build "Tiny"
Post by: 90LX_Notch on November 11, 2017, 08:05:57 PM
Steel Bill.  I like to torture myself. 

I'm just cleaning the shop now.  I'm about to put some Heavy Metal on the stereo and get "my head back in the game".

-Bob
Title: Re: 1st I.C. build "Tiny"
Post by: b.lindsey on November 11, 2017, 08:19:34 PM
Well Bob, brass could have grabbed too with the same result. Heavy metal huh? That should clear the cobwebs out  :Lol:

Bill
Title: Re: 1st I.C. build "Tiny"
Post by: 90LX_Notch on November 11, 2017, 09:21:40 PM
Even if it was plastic, it would have been a screwed part Bill.  The flanks were finished  and I was begining to rough out the .281 base circle.  I didn't go far enough back in Y when I went to index 5 degrees causing the crash.  I let my concentration slip.

The good news is that I only knocked the tram out .002.  I took the time to go over the gibs and tighten them up.  Now I just have to make sure that the collets didn't get hurt.


-Bob
Title: Re: 1st I.C. build "Tiny"
Post by: Kim on November 12, 2017, 12:55:06 AM
Wow, sorry about that Bob.   :(
I can certainly sympathize with this sort of set back.  Glad it wasn't any more serious!

Kim
Title: Re: 1st I.C. build "Tiny"
Post by: 90LX_Notch on November 12, 2017, 01:39:51 PM
Thanks Kim.  It's just a bump in the road.

-Bob
Title: Re: 1st I.C. build "Tiny"
Post by: 90LX_Notch on November 24, 2017, 02:19:40 AM
Some progress:

The cam and gear are finished and installed.  I need to make a proper bolt for it; but for now, I have a socket head screw in there for testing purposes.

The rod for the exhaust valve is done.  I just need to make a jam nut for it. 

The fuel line and pickup tube are installed. 

I need to drill and tap the flywheels.

The only real work left is figuring out the S&S ignition install.

Unfortunately, the next three days are shot.  Full workday tomorrow.  Saturday looks good for something that I have waited a long time for and it will chew up most of the day.  Sunday I have to work.  So, the next progress report most likely be until next weekend.  But, I am that much closer.  So close I can almost smell the fumes.

-Bob
Title: Re: 1st I.C. build "Tiny"
Post by: b.lindsey on November 24, 2017, 02:28:08 AM
Looks great Bob. It's getting really close!! Let me know if I can help on the S/S installation

Bill
Title: Re: 1st I.C. build "Tiny"
Post by: steamer on November 24, 2017, 01:37:03 PM
Looks fantastic!    Great job buddy!

Dave
Title: Re: 1st I.C. build "Tiny"
Post by: Don1966 on November 24, 2017, 04:06:44 PM
Looks fantastic!    Great job buddy!

Dave

:ThumbsUp:

Don
Title: Re: 1st I.C. build "Tiny"
Post by: Dave Otto on November 24, 2017, 04:46:31 PM
Very nice Bob!

Dave
Title: Re: 1st I.C. build "Tiny"
Post by: 90LX_Notch on November 24, 2017, 08:17:41 PM
Bill, Dave, Don and Dave- Thank you very much and thanks for staying "tuned in".

Bill- I think I have a plan for the ignition; but, if it doesn't work I will be in touch.

-Bob
Title: Re: 1st I.C. build "Tiny"
Post by: b.lindsey on November 24, 2017, 10:06:01 PM
Your plans usually work out quite well Bob, no reason to think they wont in this case  :) It really is looking  good!!!

Bill
Title: Re: 1st I.C. build "Tiny"
Post by: gldavison on November 24, 2017, 11:06:17 PM
Excellent..waiting for the  video. :cheers:
Title: Re: 1st I.C. build "Tiny"
Post by: 90LX_Notch on November 25, 2017, 01:43:44 AM
Thanks for the compliment Bill.  Trust me, I've countless plans fail.

Thanks gldavison,  Hopefully next weekend will yield a video.

-Bob
Title: Re: 1st I.C. build "Tiny"
Post by: 90LX_Notch on December 03, 2017, 12:24:24 PM
Well, I finished up the little stuff yesterday and rigged up the ignition.  No joy.  Not even a pop.  I stayed up very late trying to see a glimmer of life; but, there was none.  I'll keep trying.

-Bob
Title: Re: 1st I.C. build "Tiny"
Post by: b.lindsey on December 03, 2017, 01:46:21 PM
Frustrating I know Bob. Just be methodical....is it getting fuel, is it getting spark, and is it getting compression? Are you trying to start it by hand or with a starter?

Bill
Title: Re: 1st I.C. build "Tiny"
Post by: 90LX_Notch on December 03, 2017, 03:41:07 PM
I'm not really frustrated Bill.  I didn't expect it to run right off the bat.  I'm disappointed that it didn't even pop.  It is getting fuel and spark.  I'm not happy with the compression.  I'm going to make a head gasket because I have fuel bubbling from under the head.    I pulled the head off last night and placed my finger over the cylinder.  It was okay; but I might add an O-ring if the head gasket doesn't help.  I'm probably also going to switch over to pump gas.  So far, I have been trying Coleman fuel with two stroke oil.

-Bob
Title: Re: 1st I.C. build "Tiny"
Post by: gbritnell on December 03, 2017, 04:57:23 PM
Bob,
I use pump gasoline with 2 cycle oil at 50:1. I found the best way for the initial start is to leave the needle closed and while turning it over with an electric starter of some sort slowly,and I mean real slowly, start opening the needle valve. If that doesn't do it then look at other elements, most likely the compression which could also be valve sealing. With good compression they start up by hand once the needle valve is close to where it should be.
gbritnell
Title: Re: 1st I.C. build "Tiny"
Post by: b.lindsey on December 03, 2017, 06:05:30 PM
Bob as you recall, I went the o-ring route as well and found that helped a lot. The electric starter George recommended also helped to get thing sorted out. Now it will hand start, but the needle valve setting is sensitive or at least mine is. You will get it I know  :ThumbsUp:

Bill
Title: Re: 1st I.C. build "Tiny"
Post by: Tonyr on December 03, 2017, 06:17:52 PM
Bob,

I use a sewing machine motor screwed to a board, with a belt to the flywheel as a starter.
You can operate the motor with the foot pedal.
This leaves both hands free to adjust the engine.

Tony
Title: Re: 1st I.C. build "Tiny"
Post by: 90LX_Notch on December 03, 2017, 06:29:58 PM
Thanks George.  I took the head off and checked the valves on the test fixture.  When I used my MityVac switched over to psi it popped the line off of the nipple on the fixture.  At this point I still believe that the valves are sealing well.  I think the Coleman fuel at 30:1 is not helping.  Pump gas at 50:1 should be a bit more volatile to get it going.  I have been turning it over with a drill.  I will do the mixer adjustment as you describe.

Thanks Bill. It will eventually run.

That's a great idea Tony.  Unfortunately, I don't have that arrangement handy.

-Bob
Title: Re: 1st I.C. build "Tiny"
Post by: Sleddog on December 03, 2017, 08:40:19 PM
There are far more knowledgeable people here than me.

I had trouble getting my 1st IC engine to run, an Upshur. I too am using an SS ignition. The instructions said to install a resistor (supplied in the kit) in the spark plug wire. I did. I was having no luck getting the engine to run. I called Roy & he suggested taking the resistor out....I did & that's what it needed to run.

Just a thought.

Jack
Title: Re: 1st I.C. build "Tiny"
Post by: gldavison on December 03, 2017, 11:43:06 PM
Hi Bob,
 When I built my tiny I got really frustrated trying to get a perfect valve seal. I redone the valve seats three times and I made three sets of valves. I finally give up on a perfect seal. They do leak some, but it is running and starts easy now.  I also used an electric starter to get it running, and as George says that needle valve is very sensitive. I have found 5 degrees either way of center after I got it tuned it will not run.
I'm using aviation gas in my engines with a 60 to 1 ratio of Marvel Mystery oil and it seems to work really well.
I am sure you will get running.
Title: Re: 1st I.C. build "Tiny"
Post by: 90LX_Notch on December 04, 2017, 01:09:49 AM
Thanks Jack.  I already have tried it with and without the resistor with no effect.

gldavison- At this point, I do believe the the valves are not the problem. Did you use a lapped piston or an O-ring?  After what both you and George have stated, I believe the 30:1 Coleman fuel is not a plus for an initial start.  I'll have to get some fresh gas and try tomorrow along with the slow turning of the mixer screw.

-Bob
Title: Re: 1st I.C. build "Tiny"
Post by: 90LX_Notch on December 06, 2017, 02:47:00 AM
Getting a little closer. 

Switched to pump gas at 50:1.
Ditched the drill as a starter  I have a printer motor hooked up to a pc power supply.  I can now hear what is going on. 

It seamed to have a little life in the form of some weak muffled pops here and there.  Nothing significant, but something.

I'm going to try it tomorrow one more time.  If it doesn't run then, I will add an O-ring.

I know I need a 3/8 od O-ring.  I would guess Viton would be the preferred material.  What is a good cross section diameter?  Can I buy them at an auto parts store?

-Bob



Title: Re: 1st I.C. build "Tiny"
Post by: Kim on December 06, 2017, 05:30:27 AM
Bob,
You can get one of those little box sets of assorted sized of Viton O-Rings from Harbor Freight:

https://www.harborfreight.com/180-piece-viton-o-ring-kit-67525.html (https://www.harborfreight.com/180-piece-viton-o-ring-kit-67525.html)

Kim
Title: Re: 1st I.C. build "Tiny"
Post by: Roger B on December 06, 2017, 09:05:04 AM
Have you checked/experimented with the inlet valve spring? Others have found small hit and miss engines to be very sensitive to this. If it is too strong you won't get enough mixture into the cylinder.
Title: Re: 1st I.C. build "Tiny"
Post by: 90LX_Notch on December 06, 2017, 11:26:54 AM
Thanks Kim.  Unfortunately, the nearest HF is over an hour away. I'll search local auto parts stores first.

Rodger, you must have read my mind.  I was laying there last night trying to fall asleep when the intake spring crossed my mind.  I had made several and tested them and the one that is installed is the lightest that opened under vacuum yet didn't leak. I think I still have some of the other springs around to try.

-Bob
Title: Re: 1st I.C. build "Tiny"
Post by: b.lindsey on December 06, 2017, 12:19:54 PM
Sounds like a little progress Bob. I had thought about the inlet spring also but it takes very little movement in the valve to let the fuel into the cylinder. Honestly I have looked...and have yet to even see the inlet valve moving even when the engine is running. I know it is or the engine wouldn't be running but it did surprise me some. Hang in there you will get it. My bet is on compression and I do think the o-ring will help if not solve the problem.

Bill
Title: Re: 1st I.C. build "Tiny"
Post by: 90LX_Notch on December 06, 2017, 09:48:36 PM
I know it's getting fuel Bill which would indicate the spring works.  Based on your observation of your spring; which, matches mine of my spring, I'll leave it for now.  It probably won't be until Saturday before I can source an O-ring.  As always, thanks for your support.

-Bob
Title: Re: 1st I.C. build "Tiny"
Post by: gldavison on December 07, 2017, 12:54:58 AM
Getting a little closer. 

Switched to pump gas at 50:1.
Ditched the drill as a starter  I have a printer motor hooked up to a pc power supply.  I can now hear what is going on. 

It seamed to have a little life in the form of some weak muffled pops here and there.  Nothing significant, but something.

I'm going to try it tomorrow one more time.  If it doesn't run then, I will add an O-ring.

I know I need a 3/8 od O-ring.  I would guess Viton would be the preferred material.  What is a good cross section diameter?  Can I buy them at an auto parts store?

-Bob

I just used a 1/16 X 3/8 o-ring from my junk box.
Title: Re: 1st I.C. build "Tiny"
Post by: 90LX_Notch on December 07, 2017, 02:25:43 AM
Thanks gldavison.
Title: Re: 1st I.C. build "Tiny"
Post by: NickG on January 21, 2018, 07:07:00 PM
Good to see you are almost at the finish line Bob, it looks great and canít be far off at all.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Title: Re: 1st I.C. build "Tiny"
Post by: 90LX_Notch on January 27, 2018, 08:00:03 PM
Thanks Nick for checking in.

----------------------------------

Partial success! 

I went and purchased fresh fuel this morning and was able to get it to run on straight  93 octane.  It ran well once I got it going.  The other key to getting it to run was a faster starting motor.   I was nervous about running it on straight fuel since I never added the oil hole for the cylinder.  I didn't add it because I made a lapped piston and the intent was to run it with two stroke oil. 

Once I was happy with it on straight fuel I switched over to a 50:1 mix and it continued to run well after the carb was tuned.  Then it happened.  A metal on metal sound started and the engine started to get a tight spot.  Of course I figured it was the piston and pulled the head.  The bore was fine and I evenually found the problem.  The cam follower bolt had backed out and was rubbing against the flywheel.

I put it back together but haven't been able to get it to run again.   I have the batteries charging for the ignition hoping that is the problem. 

-Bob
Title: Re: 1st I.C. build "Tiny"
Post by: Admiral_dk on January 27, 2018, 08:34:16 PM
Quote
Then it happened.  A metal on metal sound started and the engine started to get a tight spot.

Argh - that sinking feeling - most, if not, all of us has been there - no fun at all  :censored:

Hope that you'll find the solution quickly.

Best wishes

Per
Title: Re: 1st I.C. build "Tiny"
Post by: b.lindsey on January 27, 2018, 09:55:56 PM
Sounds like success to me Bob...it just down to some tweaking now. Glad you found some shop time to play with it and get it going. Can't wait to see it!!!   :ThumbsUp: :ThumbsUp:

Bill
Title: Re: 1st I.C. build "Tiny"
Post by: 90LX_Notch on January 28, 2018, 12:09:01 AM
Thanks Per and Bill.

I played with it for the last three hours but failed to get it going again.  I can get it to pop; but I can't get it to run on it's own.  I get it close; but not close enough.  What stinks is that it ran well.  I had it running for 10 continuous minutes this morning.  I had an instance, where the pushrod fellout causing the exhaust gear/cam to slip on the crank and the holder for the magnet to slip.   To make a long story short; I lost all the important settings (cam timing, ignition timing and carb setting).  Sometimes it doesn't pay to be tenacious.  I should have walked away from it for a while.  I wound up doing more harm than good because I stopped thinking and began reacting.

-Bob
Title: Re: 1st I.C. build "Tiny"
Post by: b.lindsey on January 28, 2018, 12:47:25 AM
Just sleep on it Bob and get al the settings right again and try again tomorrow. I went through this for more hours/days than I care to count but the upshot is that you get to know the engine inside and out and how it reacts to things. One thing I have found that may help is that the oil in the gas mixture seems to separate and clog that tiny hole in the crossbar of the carb after setting a while, especially overnight. Before trying to run it now I take a syringe and blow back through the threaded end where the adjusting pin is and then choke it until I see fresh new gas coming in through the tube. This has seemed to help. Also I choke it until it pops and then it will usually start (repeat as necessary).
 If it ran this morning it will run again, just hang in there.

Bill
Title: Re: 1st I.C. build "Tiny"
Post by: steamer on January 28, 2018, 01:04:56 AM
Put her down, have a libation....and attack it tomorrow.....you got this buddy.
Title: Re: 1st I.C. build "Tiny"
Post by: 90LX_Notch on January 28, 2018, 01:07:05 AM
Thanks Bill and Dave.

Bill, I use my handheld vacuum pump to clear the carb and fuel line and I do choke it sometimes.  I won't be able to play with it again for awhile.  The house stinks of gasoline which "is going to go over like a fart in church" when my wife and kids get home.  I can only play with it when they are out for the day.  I need Spring to get here so I can try it outside.

I'm just happy that we recieved a break from the snow this week and I had today off.  My last day off was New Years Day until this Thursday when I had to take off because my youngest had Strep.

-Bob
Title: Re: 1st I.C. build "Tiny"
Post by: Art K on January 28, 2018, 02:41:09 AM
Bob,
I've silently been following along, more now that I've got the flue crud that's been going around. The guys have made some good suggestions to remedy what ails you I endorse the relax and have a  :DrinkPint: cold one. Myself I've found I don't think well in the moment, but when I sit back and think about stuff then I can sort it out in my mind. Last spring my goal was to have a running Val at NAMES, and I did have it in one piece but running... :Mad:. I came away with some ideas. I put indicators on the intake and exhaust lifters. Whatever I thought was the right timing was way off. I should have learned from the Upshur vertical, I did the same thing there. Once I had that sorted out it ran great. You've had it running for ten minutes so you're not that far off. You did the ten minute  :pinkelephant:
Art
Title: Re: 1st I.C. build "Tiny"
Post by: GailinNM on January 28, 2018, 07:52:00 PM
Bob,  Since it ran once  you are close to being there.

I have built 19 "Tiny" engines in various configurations  so may be able to offer some specific help.

The most common problem I encountered on the first ones I built were associated with the intake valve.  The spring originally specified was too stiff making the valve tricky to adjust.   I ended up making the intake valve spring out 0.009 music wile.  18 turns on  0.078 mandrel spaced to spread the turns out to 0.016 spacing using the lathe to wind them.  They were trimmed to provide .09 compression when installed.    For reference, 0.009 wire is very close to the high "E"  string on a guitar.

When an engine  quit  running well it almost always turned out to be a sticking intake valve.  This was caused by the oil gumming up because of the high head temperature.  I tried a lot of different oils, but the only one I found to not give me  a problem was light weight full synthetic oil. I now use Mobil 1  0-20 weight. and have not had any sticking problems.  with valve sticking since.  Be sure the valve moves very freely.  I have about 0.001 clearance between the stem and guide.  The guide is long enough that air leakage is not a problem.

For timing I set the exhaust valve to  be CLOSED about 10 degrees after top dead center.  Where it closes is more important than when when it starts to o open, but it should be starting to open about  30 degrees before bottom dead center.

Ignition timing should be about 5 to 10 degrees before top dead center.   Remember that for most ignition systems the spark is when the points open or the magnet is past the Hall sensor pickup.  If you are in a quiet location you should be able to hear the wasted spark through the exhaust pipe  near the end of the exhaust stroke to know  when the spark is happening.   Just note where the crank is  when this happens.

With the exhaust timing set you can check the operation of the intake valve.  Position the crank to TDC at the end of the exhaust stroke.  Again, in a quiet location , Listen at the air intake of the fuel mixer. Turn the crank briskly through the intake stroke.  You should hear the intake valve flutter at the air is drawn into the cylinder.  Sounds like an old man after eating chili beans. 

Another problem is fuel contamination.  If you have EVER used silicon fuel line, the needle valve the fuel mixer will be contaminated.  Silicon and gasoline don't work with each other..  After a few hours the silicon swells and breaks down and the small bit tend to plug us the fuel passages.   

Other fuel problems occur if you use inexpensive plastic syringes for fueling.  The rubber seal on the pllunger does the same  thing as the silicon fuel line.  Because of the small fuel passages I filter all the gasoline before using it.

If interested, some videos of some to my "Tiny's" and Tiny powered gauge one locomotives are at:
https://www.youtube.com/user/nmsteam/videos

Gail in NM
Title: Re: 1st I.C. build "Tiny"
Post by: 90LX_Notch on January 29, 2018, 01:00:06 AM
Thank you for your support Art.

Gail, thank you very much for taking the time to write your experiences building "Tinys".  It is greatly appreciated.  You have provided me with some great information as well as "some food for thought".  Now I just have to find the time to tinker with my engine.

-Bob
Title: Re: 1st I.C. build "Tiny"
Post by: 90LX_Notch on February 04, 2018, 12:41:32 AM
I tried again today.  I was able to get a few consecutive "pops" early on.  It seems as though my spark plug may be the culprit.  It doesn't look fouled; but it is not firing at all.  It looks like I'll have to make a new one.

-Bob
Title: Re: 1st I.C. build "Tiny"
Post by: b.lindsey on February 04, 2018, 12:43:53 AM
Bob, I don't think you would have gotten any pops at all if it was the plug.  Why are you suspecting it? Just curious.

Bill
Title: Re: 1st I.C. build "Tiny"
Post by: 90LX_Notch on February 04, 2018, 01:06:09 AM
Bill, I pulled the head off with the plug in it and it won't fire.  With the plug removed and grounded  directly with the wire from the ignition, it won't fire.

-Bob
Title: Re: 1st I.C. build "Tiny"
Post by: 90LX_Notch on February 04, 2018, 02:03:23 AM
Somehow, the plug is shorted.  My multi meter confirms it.  Also, when I hold the plug above the head the spark alternates from the ground straps and electrode, to the head.  If I angle the plug, the spark jumps from the ground strap, not the electrode.  If I touch the ground strap to the head, nothing happens.

-Bob
Title: Re: 1st I.C. build "Tiny"
Post by: 90LX_Notch on February 12, 2018, 02:31:21 AM
Sparkplug Failure Update:

As I suspected, the Corian cracked and the plug was shorted.  You can see a ring on the electrode where the crack was.  Under the microscope you can see where the electrode has been spark eroded.  When I get a chance, I am going to make a new insulator out of Teflon and reassemble the sparkplug.

-Bob
Title: Re: 1st I.C. build "Tiny"
Post by: steamer on February 12, 2018, 10:49:39 AM
Progress!     Keep the pressure on the little bugger...ot will submit eventually!
Title: Re: 1st I.C. build "Tiny"
Post by: Don1966 on February 12, 2018, 02:37:32 PM
Keep flipping those rock Bob you will win in the end. Good find bud.    :ThumbsUp:


Don
Title: Re: 1st I.C. build "Tiny"
Post by: b.lindsey on February 12, 2018, 02:57:07 PM
That should be an easy fix Bob. Just need the time to do it :)  At least you already know it runs...just not with a bad plug.

Bill
Title: Re: 1st I.C. build "Tiny"
Post by: cheepo45 on February 12, 2018, 05:38:45 PM
Are you trying to crimp the corian in place? I have cracked several this way. Now I make the corian a nice sliding fit and glue it all together with Loctite 262. I have several plugs that have been running in engines for 3 or 4 years that were made this way.
 Teflon never lasted very long-it tends to burn across from the center electrode to ground and short out.
Good luck with your motor. IC engines do take a while to get running properly. Don't get discouraged.
Title: Re: 1st I.C. build "Tiny"
Post by: 90LX_Notch on February 13, 2018, 01:01:50 PM
Thanks Dave and Don.

Bill, you have that right about finding the time.  This winter has been a pain in the buttom.

Scott, I used a slight press fit for the Corian along with Permatex Old Indian Head Gasket maker to glue it.  I believe the fatal crack occurred when I pressed the electrode into the Corian.  The crack occurred at the transition from the .125 to .078 diameters.  If I had pressed the electrode from the other end, I believe the crack wouldn't have occurred.  I want to use Teflon this round because it will be less prone to cracking.  I just want to get this thing running. 


-Bob
Title: Re: 1st I.C. build "Tiny"
Post by: b.lindsey on February 13, 2018, 02:15:43 PM
Bob, as you may recall I used teflon for mine and did crimp it as well. So far, after several accumulated hours of running I have not experienced what Scott mentioned. That's not to say it won't happen in time, but the teflon has worked for me so give it a try.

Bill
Title: Re: 1st I.C. build "Tiny"
Post by: Brian Rupnow on February 13, 2018, 03:53:28 PM
I made a couple of spark-plugs out of Corian that someone sent me. I found it to be very brittle and crack prone.---Brian
Title: Re: 1st I.C. build "Tiny"
Post by: cheepo45 on February 13, 2018, 05:31:07 PM
I do tend to run my engines all day at the shows - That may be why the teflon doesn't hold up for me. It will work for a while, and it won't crack.
Title: Re: 1st I.C. build "Tiny"
Post by: 90LX_Notch on February 19, 2018, 10:26:06 PM
Thanks for your input gentlemen.

I have zero progress to report.  I was called out a couple of times in the middle of the night during the week for icey conditions.  Saturday night we had a storm that we delt with from 7p to 3a and I worked Sunday afternoon.  I just didn't have the time or energy to make a new insulator for the spark plug. 

-Bob
Title: Re: 1st I.C. build "Tiny"
Post by: zeeprogrammer on February 19, 2018, 11:23:01 PM
I was called out a couple of times in the middle of the night during the week for icey conditions.  Saturday night we had a storm that we delt with from 7p to 3a and I worked Sunday afternoon.

Have you considered moving? Seems that weather gets in your way a lot.  ;D

But be careful where you would move to. I left tornadoes and am not sorry about that!
Title: Re: 1st I.C. build "Tiny"
Post by: 90LX_Notch on February 19, 2018, 11:54:58 PM
I'm only three hours north of you Carl.  It's just been a busy winter with this new job.  The entire crew can't wait for Spring. 

-Bob
Title: Re: 1st I.C. build "Tiny"
Post by: b.lindsey on February 20, 2018, 12:02:16 AM
Bummer Bob, but the weather can't stay bad forever. I had mine out this weekend after a month or more and thought about you. We are expecting temps in the 70's the next two days... I'll send some your way.

Bill
Title: Re: 1st I.C. build "Tiny"
Post by: 90LX_Notch on February 20, 2018, 12:56:34 AM
It is what is Bill.  Yes, please send some warm weather this way.

-Bob
Title: Re: 1st I.C. build "Tiny"
Post by: crueby on February 20, 2018, 01:03:00 AM
I'm another couple hours north of you, and we are getting upper 60s tomorrow and Wednesday, you must still have winter in PA!
Title: Re: 1st I.C. build "Tiny"
Post by: Art K on February 20, 2018, 03:39:50 AM
Bob,
Relax and have a home brew, unless of coarse you don't have any then use the store bought sort.  :DrinkPint: Sounds like you need a break, the spark plug will get done in good time. We will wait, patiently :), just take care of yourself.
Art
Title: Re: 1st I.C. build "Tiny"
Post by: 90LX_Notch on April 08, 2018, 04:23:17 PM
Thanks Art.

Some progress finally.  Despite winter's refusal to die, (plowed snow Monday) I began to remake the spark plug.  The lower end of the insulator was turned and pressed/glued into the base.  This time I am using Teflon for the insulator.  This should eliminate any cracking and allow me to get this thing dialed in.  Hopefully, I can finish the  top half of the insulator this week and get the plug fully assembled and try to run the engine next weekend.

-Bob
Title: Re: 1st I.C. build "Tiny"
Post by: b.lindsey on April 08, 2018, 07:25:38 PM
The snow has to stop sometime right Bob?  Here's hoping the new plug will solve your problems and get the Tiny running well. Looking forward to that along with you.

Bill
Title: Re: 1st I.C. build "Tiny"
Post by: zeeprogrammer on April 08, 2018, 10:11:30 PM
Hopefully, I can finish the  top half of the insulator this week and get the plug fully assembled and try to run the engine next weekend.

And provide a pic  ;D
Title: Re: 1st I.C. build "Tiny"
Post by: Art K on April 08, 2018, 11:12:42 PM
I suppose that at some point in time I'll try my hand at making a spark plug, but until then I will pick my battles & that's not one of them. :wallbang:
Art
Title: Re: 1st I.C. build "Tiny"
Post by: 90LX_Notch on April 09, 2018, 12:22:51 AM
Thanks Bill.
Noted Carl.
Art, making a spark plug isn't tha bad at all.  Mine failed due to a crack in the Corian insulator as a result of a pressed fit.

-Bob
Title: Re: 1st I.C. build "Tiny"
Post by: Art K on April 09, 2018, 02:10:40 AM
Just sayin, much easier to plug'n play. :old:
Art
Title: Re: 1st I.C. build "Tiny"
Post by: 90LX_Notch on April 10, 2018, 03:00:57 AM
Just sayin, much easier to plug'n play. :old:
Art

What fun is that.
Title: Re: 1st I.C. build "Tiny"
Post by: 90LX_Notch on April 10, 2018, 03:07:31 AM
For Carl:

The base was screwed into a crude fixture and indicated into the four jaw.  The insulator was faced to length; then a simple round nose tool was used to machine the grooves.  A little bit of filing and sanding and the insulator was finished.  The electrode assembly was then pressed into the insulator.

-Bob
Title: Re: 1st I.C. build "Tiny"
Post by: Art K on April 10, 2018, 04:04:12 AM
Bob,
I think we have a vastly different idea of fun. Like I said earlier "pick my battles" & when I need to make a little teeny thing like that I will. I think I'd spend the time I save  :DrinkPint: doing this. :lolb:
Art
Title: Re: 1st I.C. build "Tiny"
Post by: b.lindsey on April 10, 2018, 11:58:16 AM
That looks good Bob, I hope the teflon will work out better for you. Art, I thought along the same lines until I actually made one and it was surprisingly easy even at this size.

Bill

Title: Re: 1st I.C. build "Tiny"
Post by: zeeprogrammer on April 10, 2018, 12:12:40 PM
 :ThumbsUp:

Thanks Bob.
Title: Re: 1st I.C. build "Tiny"
Post by: 90LX_Notch on April 15, 2018, 12:23:21 AM
Success!

She runs well.  My i-Pad crashed last week and I need to reload the video app.  I am going to see if I can load a clip straight to YouTube.  Video will be forth coming at some point.  Right now I am sitting on my deck with a big smile on my face with this thing purring away.


-Bob
Title: Re: 1st I.C. build "Tiny"
Post by: Dave Otto on April 15, 2018, 12:45:21 AM
Congrats Bob!
Looking forward to the video.


Dave
Title: Re: 1st I.C. build "Tiny"
Post by: GailinNM on April 15, 2018, 12:52:36 AM
 :ThumbsUp: Congratulations Bob.  "TINY"s are such fun.
Gail in NM
Title: Re: 1st I.C. build "Tiny"
Post by: b.lindsey on April 15, 2018, 01:03:59 AM
GREAT Bob!!!!!!!!  I am happy for you. Looking forward to pics and the video. I can see that smile from here!!

Bill
Title: Re: 1st I.C. build "Tiny"
Post by: 90LX_Notch on April 15, 2018, 01:25:02 AM
It's not much of a video; but here it is:

Sqo7EzfmMRo

It is not pretty right now. It has a temporary rubber ring around one flywheel to aid in starting.  The magnet for the ignition is mounted in a temporary Teflon block pressed on the crank.


-Bob
Title: Re: 1st I.C. build "Tiny"
Post by: 90LX_Notch on April 15, 2018, 01:28:26 AM
Thank you gentlemen.  Your support during this build has been greatly appreciated.  A special thanks once again to Bill for lending me the necessary gear cutters.

-Bob
Title: Re: 1st I.C. build "Tiny"
Post by: gbritnell on April 15, 2018, 01:40:12 AM
Congratulations Bob,
You must be relieved and thrilled at the same time! Now you can do the fine tuning and prettying up.
Great job!
gbritnell
Title: Re: 1st I.C. build "Tiny"
Post by: b.lindsey on April 15, 2018, 01:47:22 AM
The main thing is that its a runner Bob. Thanks for the video. The prettying up part will be a lot more fun too, knowing now that it runs.  Well done  :cartwheel: :whoohoo:

Bill
Title: Re: 1st I.C. build "Tiny"
Post by: yogi on April 15, 2018, 02:54:37 AM
Congratulation on the runner Bob!!!
Well done!  :ThumbsUp: :ThumbsUp: :ThumbsUp:
Title: Re: 1st I.C. build "Tiny"
Post by: 90LX_Notch on April 15, 2018, 02:57:43 AM
Thanks George. Yes, I'm very relieved.  I had done too much testing along the way for it not to run.  It is funny how one little flaw in one part (cracked Corian) can mess the whole thing up.

Thanks for all of your support and input throughout the build.

-Bob

Title: Re: 1st I.C. build "Tiny"
Post by: 90LX_Notch on April 15, 2018, 02:58:48 AM
Thanks yogi.
Title: Re: 1st I.C. build "Tiny"
Post by: Art K on April 15, 2018, 03:27:13 AM
Bob,
It's great to see you have a runner.
Art
Title: Re: 1st I.C. build "Tiny"
Post by: Kim on April 15, 2018, 05:44:26 AM
Congratulations, Bob!  Very nice runner there!  :ThumbsUp:
Kim
Title: Re: 1st I.C. build "Tiny"
Post by: rudydubya on April 15, 2018, 07:22:11 AM
Fantastic job Bob.  An excellent runner.  Congratulations.

Regards,
Rudy
Title: Re: 1st I.C. build "Tiny"
Post by: Roger B on April 15, 2018, 10:52:50 AM
Excellent  :praise2:  :praise2: Tiny runs well  :ThumbsUp: It's a good feeling  :wine1:
Title: Re: 1st I.C. build "Tiny"
Post by: steamer on April 15, 2018, 03:08:54 PM
It's not much of a video; but here it is:

Sqo7EzfmMRo

It is not pretty right now. It has a temporary rubber ring around one flywheel to aid in starting.  The magnet for the ignition is mounted in a temporary Teflon block pressed on the crank.


-Bob


She's a runnah!!!    Congrats buddy!

Dave
Title: Re: 1st I.C. build "Tiny"
Post by: 90LX_Notch on April 15, 2018, 03:13:48 PM
Art, Kim, Rudy, Roger and Dave thank you all.  Thanks for your support and following along throughout  the build.

-Bob
Title: Re: 1st I.C. build "Tiny"
Post by: Sleddog on April 15, 2018, 03:25:19 PM
Congratulations Bob. Sounds to be a good runner.
We got 12Ē of snow yesterday! Iím on the way out to push it out of the way so I can head to the NAMES Expo later in the week.

Whatís the next build?

Jack
Title: Re: 1st I.C. build "Tiny"
Post by: zeeprogrammer on April 15, 2018, 03:54:57 PM
Congratulations Mr. Happy Guy!  ;D
Well deserved. Very nice job.
Title: Re: 1st I.C. build "Tiny"
Post by: Admiral_dk on April 15, 2018, 05:43:51 PM
Great news after your trials and tribulations with this one and a good runner too  :ThumbsUp:

I had a few full size engines that turned out to sparkplug related too  :zap:  :Mad:  :cussing:
Title: Re: 1st I.C. build "Tiny"
Post by: 90LX_Notch on April 16, 2018, 01:26:16 AM
Thanks Jack.  The next build will be to finish an engine that I started many years ago designed by GailinNM called Lobo Pup Twin.

Thank you Carl and thanks for following along.

Thanks Per.  Those darn sparkplugs!

-Bob
Title: Re: 1st I.C. build "Tiny"
Post by: Larry on April 16, 2018, 01:48:45 AM
Congratulations ! I know the feeling when it runs for the first time.
Title: Re: 1st I.C. build "Tiny"
Post by: ShopShoe on April 16, 2018, 01:00:03 PM
Congratulations.

It is a nice runner.

I have followed this and I have always known that you would get to this point.

Thank you for posting it all.

ShopShoe
Title: Re: 1st I.C. build "Tiny"
Post by: 90LX_Notch on April 16, 2018, 10:34:38 PM
Thanks Larry, it is a great feeling.

Thank you ShopShoe for following along and your kind words.

-Bob

Title: Re: 1st I.C. build "Tiny"
Post by: Dave Otto on April 17, 2018, 12:49:18 AM
Congrats Bob!
She runs great :ThumbsUp:


Dave
Title: Re: 1st I.C. build "Tiny"
Post by: 90LX_Notch on April 17, 2018, 02:27:20 AM
Thanks Dave.  You have been here since the first post, thank you.


-Bob
Title: Re: 1st I.C. build "Tiny"
Post by: 90LX_Notch on May 12, 2018, 09:56:34 PM
Here it is in it's final state-

I started a thread in the Showcase area that includes additional pictures. http://www.modelenginemaker.com/index.php/topic,8125.0.html

Thanks to everyone who followed along on this journey and for all of your support and encouragement.

-Bob