Model Engine Maker

Engines => From Plans => Topic started by: deltatango on September 16, 2016, 05:35:03 AM

Title: Len Mason's "Mastiff" - chewed from the solid
Post by: deltatango on September 16, 2016, 05:35:03 AM
Hi All,
This is the start of a build log of my attempt at Len Mason's Mastiff, a 4-cylinder horizontally opposed engine of about 25 cc. I've chosen to do without castings, partly because of cost but mostly because I like carving metal. I also wanted to know how much extra work there really is doing it this way compared with making jigs and setting up castings.

As a start I redrew the whole engine in 3D using Geomagic Design and made necessary changes to the crankcase and other parts,  also changed all threads to metric. Here is the external appearance of the engine as modified:

(https://gu1s7q-sn3301.files.1drv.com/y3mtiLAr3s9zwNJumXD-Kd1jdvnCiZx8VjwJYGQqV185YfVvslXEhjo7f8-Ox94k3A24kAPaeGR8aBjGll1AbLZQ7xp6vetYXHDx2MMgxGBcam2HZ2o7o3W1cclirmEAwm3yv_MZi1mdb-KYxaJvcXA2bcsTiSLCKPuyP8w20TyPMQ?width=1397&height=962&cropmode=none)

and some sections:

(https://gu3rea-sn3301.files.1drv.com/y3mfV4Bg-d-vvYYNXxD38LdRpJ8huVAThIfBBkfa5a0Nvx-lF_2hxpiZwN5jKmDoO5D2akqHNgM-_jGSHrFoCbE2Q9ffuIbqy7CsYZgN_V3-rkMBwdZeewfRVe_Lew4hUNTf8CwH7f56B4cUMwptOcl8VOOT0mr8DJEEhowQw1alfs?width=1374&height=962&cropmode=none)

If the Moderators  :praise2: think it's appropriate (this is after all a re-work of someone else's design) I will start a "Drawings" thread as well.

Kirk Burwell at Hemingway Kits kindly put together an anything-but-the-castings kit of parts which will save a lot of time sourcing bits and pieces:

(https://uqtbjg-sn3301.files.1drv.com/y3m3P6XW7AmQPcipoPg4eldjgTOJZ3xyhXodnAL77e3E04uIyRMhi-ynd4k0PfooxQI7g7ihyJaoFFH2iJcYdoNOSUurdGEm762mnujK06YclUyEpRcnrpYNsWhbmG5h-ujHblOee_IjE7uFPn59Auj8Cu9YgnwLwxOnhmJ2s4o--8?width=800&height=600&cropmode=none)

(https://uqvagq-sn3301.files.1drv.com/y3mney29Yq7sdGe747i5IArmEJT_eiDvhwikarx-9wkzt79AfTLFxvTvtevXP3iFhr5ih1imUC75OHcqg3Log5c1inSXxShCRkIo_5XsDXWAxHG_EFAWnTo0k_xbG6Pbu7tZPRzQ8RIG3tsZerd_vZkO1TjxZh3JstzEPdBbVkdRSE?width=800&height=600&cropmode=none)

The picture also shows two kits each for a pair of home-made spark plugs, I have no experience with these so I have my fingers crossed.

The Al blocks came from the local suppliers odds-and-ends shelves:

(https://uqv2ag-sn3301.files.1drv.com/y3mLe1fdaZkIv7s3aJLIHGW6n4ZyQYH1mQRMCm4Dyu6KZ82iYfaJASgJvCdhUrEacTrfpNeWNAvWUwYLc_CUMk4gXtXL3UZWSLv-vACGe8FXelQdecKepBuM0YGyVeTv1rO14sUTh3-gblW9r44yeAFhhJL0ifrutj53oncM7xhd24?width=800&height=600&cropmode=none)

The crankcase was already completed before I found this forum but I put this in the picture for completeness. The jpegs exported by Geomagic Design are rubbbish so I've attached the same pictures as pdf files.

I'll show progress on the crankcase in the next post.

DT

Title: Re: Len Mason's "Mastiff" - chewed from the solid
Post by: BronxFigs on September 16, 2016, 12:12:56 PM
Looking forward to seeing the building of this  engine.  Wishing you a successful outcome for all your efforts.

Frank
Title: Re: Len Mason's "Mastiff" - chewed from the solid
Post by: deltatango on September 16, 2016, 12:41:44 PM
Thanks Frank, I really appreciate the good wishes!
DT
Title: Re: Len Mason's "Mastiff" - chewed from the solid
Post by: philjoe5 on September 16, 2016, 01:38:24 PM
A very ambitious project - best of luck and success with it. 

Cheers,
Phil
Title: Re: Len Mason's "Mastiff" - chewed from the solid
Post by: Dave Otto on September 16, 2016, 01:47:30 PM
Looking forward to following along with your build.

Dave
Title: Re: Len Mason's "Mastiff" - chewed from the solid
Post by: RonGinger on September 16, 2016, 01:49:22 PM
I hope you can make the drawings available. I have the book, but the print quality of the drawings makes them unreadable. It looks like they took original pencil drawings and reduced them to fit the book and the  line width is so tiny the drawings are useless. I wanted to build this years ago, I bought the book when I attended an ME show, about 1994 I think.
Title: Re: Len Mason's "Mastiff" - chewed from the solid
Post by: Roger B on September 16, 2016, 04:12:29 PM
This looks to be an interesting project, I wish you every success  :ThumbsUp:  :ThumbsUp:  :wine1:
Title: Re: Len Mason's "Mastiff" - chewed from the solid
Post by: gbritnell on September 16, 2016, 06:49:27 PM
Actually I make all my engines from solid. From the solid modeling you posted it doesn't look like there is a lot of complex details (fillets, bosses etc) to contend with so it shouldn't really be too big of a job.
The only thing I can advise is to do all the hole drilling (major holes) and internal cavities first. The reason being is once the outside has metal removed and there aren't many square surfaces left it's hard to clamp or fixture the part to do the internals.
Good luck on your project. I will be following along to watch the progress.
gbritnell
Title: Re: Len Mason's "Mastiff" - chewed from the solid
Post by: metalmad on September 16, 2016, 11:03:07 PM
Hi DT
I have the book as well and intend to build it at some stage.
Will be following along for sure!
Pete
Title: Re: Len Mason's "Mastiff" - chewed from the solid
Post by: b.lindsey on September 17, 2016, 12:21:15 AM
Great project DT. I will be following along as well.

Bill
Title: Re: Len Mason's "Mastiff" - chewed from the solid
Post by: Jo on September 17, 2016, 08:35:20 AM
For reference: This is the alternative the set of castings for the Mastif.

 :thinking: I don't have the skew gears for the oil pump

DT I see you mentioned a "kit" for two sparkplugs. I did not see those on the Hemmingway website. Is it something that Kirt sells separately with drawings?

Jo
Title: Re: Len Mason's "Mastiff" - chewed from the solid
Post by: deltatango on September 17, 2016, 09:31:39 AM
Jo,
I've just looked again at the Hemingway website and the plug kits have disappeared! They were next after the Rimfire and NGK plugs with a part number HEA 1000. This must be a very recent change as Kirk sent me a replacement insulator (to replace one that was broken in transit) that arrived only a few days ago. Best contact Kirk directly if you are interested.

Thanks for the picture of the castings, by the colour these look to be in CI? The skew gears drive the oil pump and contact breaker, the pump needs two small pinions as well.

RonGinger asks about making my drawings available, what do other people think about this? I don't want to tread on any toes etc. Ron's comment about the quality of the drawings in the book is correct, this was another reason for the re-drafting in GD.

gbritnell says:
Actually I make all my engines from solid. From the solid modeling you posted it doesn't look like there is a lot of complex details (fillets, bosses etc) to contend with so it shouldn't really be too big of a job.
The only thing I can advise is to do all the hole drilling (major holes) and internal cavities first. The reason being is once the outside has metal removed and there aren't many square surfaces left it's hard to clamp or fixture the part to do the internals.
Good luck on your project. I will be following along to watch the progress.
gbritnell

During the redesign I made a point of removing, if possible, anything that was awkward to make. Thanks for the advice re keeping the outside of the billet intact as long as possible - this is how I intend to work.

Can anyone tell me the range of RPM to expect from Mastiff?

DT
Title: Re: Len Mason's "Mastiff" - chewed from the solid
Post by: Jo on September 17, 2016, 11:29:31 AM
Those are all Ali castings. I suspect that the Skew gears are the ones that used to fit to car/motorcycle speedo drives  ;)

Drawings  :thinking: MAP used to do drawings in the 1980s as PE.32, they don't any more  :disappointed: Kirt sells 9 pages of A2 imperious ones with 122 pages of notes to aid the builder, so he is not making anything on their sales and my guess is that you showing this build is likely to increase sales of his casting sets which is where he makes his money. And as you say you have done a redesign so you own the copyright of that redesign so it is up to you if you would like to make them available to the members  :).

Jo
Title: Re: Len Mason's "Mastiff" - chewed from the solid
Post by: tangler on September 17, 2016, 12:09:54 PM
Actually, PE32 is still there, although mis-spelt:

http://www.myhobbystore.co.uk/product/22178/matiff-set-plan-pe32 (http://www.myhobbystore.co.uk/product/22178/matiff-set-plan-pe32)

Beware, Len Mason's son is very protective of his father's legacy.


Skew gears?  Make your own :o.  If I can...

Rod
Title: Re: Len Mason's "Mastiff" - chewed from the solid
Post by: Jo on September 17, 2016, 01:24:50 PM
:headscratch: Why is it under the model boats.

Jo
Title: Re: Len Mason's "Mastiff" - chewed from the solid
Post by: ozzie46 on September 17, 2016, 02:36:04 PM
Maybe because it was originally designed to power a boat?  Just a guess,but in the series in ME he said it would power a 6 foot boat.


 Ron
Title: Re: Len Mason's "Mastiff" - chewed from the solid
Post by: ozzie46 on September 17, 2016, 02:49:52 PM
Here's a link to the one I finished in 2013. I need to make new rods  as 1 is no good now.  I made them out of 6061 ally. The new ones will be 2024 ally. Also i am going to move the distributor to the top of the points casing as is usual. Oil is getting in the one as designed and shorting things out. It has hall effect ignition.
 The blk/crankcase is built up of thick plate that is screwed and JB welded together. Works great and saved money on a large solid block that would have had to be milled out. 

 The engine is all carved from "solid" except for the screwed and glued crank case. Also made my own scew gears.

 It was my first IC engine and there is room for improvement in running and making a good looking stand.



CfLadQvwz2w

Ron
Title: Re: Len Mason's "Mastiff" - chewed from the solid
Post by: deltatango on September 17, 2016, 11:29:32 PM
Thanks for sharing that Ron, great to see one working. I've read elsewhere that the carburetter can be tricky to make and get to work, did you buy in a commercial unit? I thought about a built-up crankcase, definitely less swarf with that approach, but the idea of carving from the solid appealed more.

First up I'll try to get the original ignition system to work but a Hall effect unit is a good option. As a family we've owned a few Subarus and the "waste spark" system they use looks worth try too.

DT
Title: Re: Len Mason's "Mastiff" - chewed from the solid
Post by: ozzie46 on September 18, 2016, 12:37:19 AM
Thanks for sharing that Ron, great to see one working. I've read elsewhere that the carburetter can be tricky to make and get to work, did you buy in a commercial unit?

DT

I actually used a carb designed by a member here, George Britnell aka gbritnell. He has posted on this thread already. He has made the plans freely available in the past, maybe he will post them again.

 Ron
Title: Re: Len Mason's "Mastiff" - chewed from the solid
Post by: deltatango on September 22, 2016, 09:45:28 AM
Here is a description of making my version of the Mastiff crankcase. The aims of the redesign were to make the crankcase from a single piece of metal (accepting that this would involve making a lot of swarf) and to have sufficient thickness for all the cylinder block studs to be held in tapped holes. All threads have been changed to metric, mostly standard pitches but some fine threads.

Listening to advice from other members I'll include drawings only for bits that I have modified significantly. I haven't generated a full set of drawings from the CAD model, I'm just making them as I need them. Here are the crankcase, bearing housing and associated bits:

(https://gu0iyg-sn3301.files.1drv.com/y3mjy2F2uY4G7TFQrTDhlmRmba7BIq9OM6XpVjLtnVZIU3Hsp8n2BlWtpGvmIvGLWTPX4ZC-h1GEGmLL-SFX91X_oV3lMAZ-ZR7rYoAd2KCf-sgFTq-VJPijXJgqpFahDnr03XDluAVHBI2b4lHoDNNpfvtQKzErvR3aGrhAfTxEJo?width=1372&height=919&cropmode=none)

A pdf version is also attached as the jpegs from Geomagic Design (GD) are poor. I hope most people get to see the images, I'm using MS OneDrive for picture hosting and getting the pictures to appear wasn't easy. Many thanks to the members who helped sort this out in another thread; Firefox under Windows 10 works but IE 11 and MS Edge seem a bit less certain. If this causes too many problems I may have to re-post using attachments.

The starting point is a billet trued-up in a nest on the mill:

(https://gu1t7q-sn3301.files.1drv.com/y3mSQdZnFrHnyCEOAa_g_5U0P9QydBqZ3xGxDhO2SQP0TIcX_16TRRcrSSTzSUXIJDMcKUJzVgOiAd_Ob_5LI2Ocg4Trme7umI6t5l91-_wBThLr6r0K0LhiWlq04dFiQyCRGoapiVyX3Uo0MbEsSThxvQ_Vxf9S6niMn15yHbDAp4?width=800&height=600&cropmode=none)

and swarf was made:
(https://wfjzgq-sn3301.files.1drv.com/y3mIW9YddD_NbL5zg-nQO3FqS8U9TyExJGkFABSgYeurj5_kCPcHhj7fgTlmc6YXx45RNew8fPYHbDNrXFKnwXtW8B2xRq-ysxqR-X9evJFfmt_zXxHq7GxiDtXXabMCoAS4A00y8rSEOqs0hdPK4kdE2FhiJ6HVLcgNVh5A7T-DBw?width=800&height=600&cropmode=none)

the surface cleaned up by fly-cutting to size:
(https://wfiojg-sn3301.files.1drv.com/y3mUd7t4G1IA66ndgUVmEyN22hZH00_Ory8QJl5-TA7PcDCyLC1kfQaTifRuhKjvSz4o9a0QLuLg_xhJer-aXvZYXWewGT2STU7u8rmbKfgYSx_etRK9XkgIxE7kK2MgbkiTI0I4EGdhPfVSvZ7r5PcSe_JvtePUdmRxt3DQ1Rt1-Y?width=800&height=600&cropmode=none)

which produced a nice, silky smooth finish:
(https://wflypa-sn3301.files.1drv.com/y3mWkGb5sHQrpm2xv4Cc1RFTRPwdmMChLyzcBsjGqu7V7U9PvJSh-ekYOSbRJGdCKwJNDh7UxALu7DmeZu3ChW3kVho9JBkTsyDMbTV8bSXV8ZjFl82zRsgLkSl1-sSopY28ZzN8uauOAApZatxJIQDbbUxbwH7rT7ht5dcUzbQTXg?width=800&height=600&cropmode=none)

that, despite all the care I took with clamping didn't survive intact. The billet was marked out and mounted for boring:
(https://wfjedw-sn3301.files.1drv.com/y3ml3dDRHxkuP28oxxl1hpO2IJUMuzbnKAi3K3oBz68M5SSeUKA4PszZpwf9zeHw_nsQTWAYDNUCv4j_n4Og3pazOOcu6iTD1wMugRLyIhbejMpzDc5GAnFbaWSepZp9b5kj0AuleD7N-yGhSk3_k05paepD4tRsIkrryoqrCc1m-M?width=800&height=600&cropmode=none)

drilled through and a 12 mm boring bar used to bore right through. This proved too ambitious and the finish at the far end was entirely chatter marks (should have expected this). The recovery from this is shown later. In this picture you can see the home made depth-stop and slips used to control the depth of boring:
(https://hmkovq-sn3301.files.1drv.com/y3mQ3FMwPivhqX5A3LnbpwS2Y8ApHZwzr1Opam_GaXlSOGCm0ME-bN0OYPrTWFQrVfV3IpuNZpJt5u463cW3ySypl1xuu5YFaCWdwrc51-jNGGi77oA_I2y8_hKVV6PYiEFphj4XUpKm7w1L0rdnY5jll_mcZuPYEN7-RstwZPM8Zk?width=800&height=600&cropmode=none)

the 16 mm bar with a polished tip gave a really good finish. It also produced dense rats nests of swarf in the hole that had to be dug out frequently with a dental probe. The tooth brush was to keep the depth stop clean:
(https://hmlxxw-sn3301.files.1drv.com/y3mGx_9YNjDssR6_bUfGuWkdlMqllulOtDxhHQmo4w68lgzM2wMuDn_XrFkNfdxxdLlBrJWQMvbpqiMStliyCBOl4_qo0C_hi16b_gazEvAzRbagYjLEb7gg7tkhb-5IclpzT2skYi4izeDifiKq1if9wVgAex_YwEN41zicwjFmdA?width=800&height=600&cropmode=none)

with the main bore finished to size and depth the angle plate was moved to drill and bore the camshaft tunnel:

(https://gu3sea-sn3301.files.1drv.com/y3mPdRera-rONje6C-w4U7TjpdvavzQ5LLxuJmQvHWnPdAfVUFWCo-W0ddLzXx9oattO4Z1u4pgLficaqvwidBwWxduPCVRXy-_Vk38gLwVaKtv5j2DkkVCO4ap0b6YdVdTiazTy3sNBiuKHtvp56NJzvzYmez9_1Bh5960BNGOVpk?width=450&height=600&cropmode=none)

to recover the hacked-up timing end bearing mounting I turned a mandrel from MS:

(https://hminsq-sn3301.files.1drv.com/y3m1JDBr5uBZTyML7rI-DwHM2YTMF4lngEmh2tkUg4kJITyyQ4v_jFONrfxf8uXVlu599RfGfyJJIwIpTfJHdqxM-5PqI0pNtBbBpjVGaVPQN1VHaQAXh6q7Pum8wy0HSt-4tcQZC2USlW2NagwBMqAm3ZKV4KTRArU4_QWXivVW5Y?width=800&height=600&cropmode=none)

and mounted up the block:

(https://hmjdmg-sn3301.files.1drv.com/y3meRmB5qKR6sfX9Ru0pzg566A00PIFjOwkA-d0EWLR6duAbobdDobtaZMKBbFj1ftT_QiAXMAgNkqkN639R91wCRdDZtZMoIoQR_CK1Nl3oqqmckXgOAviPOzkr9f77fwDpAxz6QBV9BxiKBkp8ips_ycluc2aZXr3QO4kuKBT4OA?width=800&height=600&cropmode=none)

the bearing mounting ended up over size but not so much that the bearing won't come out of the material supplied.

Then it was back to the Aciera to drill and bore out the holes for the cylinder liners. The plug gauge needed to keep sizes in order is shown as well:
(https://hmiuka-sn3301.files.1drv.com/y3m0lZna1j7NL1XXCjhSW66WW0Rbva4TZE3APwvq2SB14J7aj8IBg9Si5xOt_fSNVng0hPfmPn7rIZDCB_tuk_0Yfl9ImAK3CQc7eqk0-FeXh-GJNe5FaKnZi4nlv0Bbdw3nGks2PsbYP9iJt1n3HhIv80yHyHGD84BzxiI_Sxi2sk?width=800&height=600&cropmode=none)

Then the mill table was tilted to 13 degrees and the tappet guide bores drilled and reamed:

(https://hmkvba-sn3301.files.1drv.com/y3mryuR8ESAVT9mNw4sZJBytwEWDSucPxQqEAX_p5LSJ7Lsvm2oq0glEw-yYd1gACl17Lpf5-rrIYxzSpm9JHpds2Kck0CFIXjMQCy6bPpi-WcomRvBNDJ7Rp0mI52rnUKSDtNCKijNSU9Q-yRUOh4zPH93cWiJ_Xfcw5cAb60KtRo?width=800&height=600&cropmode=none)

and the clearance milled in:
(https://hmj5gw-sn3301.files.1drv.com/y3maobvRllpttDCzLG5KhfL6Y8R26F4Ll1JokCoiqLxKAOAfEi2cVsF9IB8rMK7bWKT7ubrQ4JZ8l0n8Pqqfi6GvOTQ6aQ_sau7V9GFwFPy0zvRWQDD3GRVDhUyKDI3nNDP4pxNz5rMvmYLmWg6QX4a94tU_oFTmCm3_xMUe66xsD0?width=800&height=600&cropmode=none)

To finish off the part the holes in the top and bottom of the block were milled out:

(https://hmjy1a-sn3301.files.1drv.com/y3mgWYtQlWSK_1C3w7mKKMB-iOsWII9fWJwdhbRghi5j7gBR1dVFBJSjdWRq1I_pFpQwoMq0HeFbjvzy83RRgFy5LfpwgmIZiwxB74ekAUhvL-_IPst1jaAVLwGJPEXOwGwn6JnpntYLdjdyo0WseLPg2xGR-zYiP1dEAHAY-keE80?width=800&height=600&cropmode=none)

The finished part  looks like:
(https://gu0bgw-sn3301.files.1drv.com/y3mgcW_HUORXWWMOjrVYXVME519c42ksr1GEGhTLcTwMt-pWQRwDH-eobMOYeyLSUeAnun9zGCTvNknOs5f4qTZqkcg_o4ZLk0QkOapb1QwnIa0rdtDLRNGCFqHxvvr5S3zzR_b2njYyFifnKY3ke2PWqjY3fSQLs-U4WC3sVOQP1I?width=800&height=600&cropmode=none)

and with the flywheel end bearing fitted:
(https://gu1mpg-sn3301.files.1drv.com/y3mzD0SRcXQiJIKVHqhl1MmVVvKwHJ4DQ5-PfFgfU0vf6bJs03Vq384PN8uyXLKs-gAQtyV_iikhn5eTMGmEXBQSJnXbGT2-SXPjGTh2qRX7s9dWsBhryePHut1mUDzVqwhCoHIqtQA03vwnyA_357E_GJLQxC6LcZPleCgsMy0lFE?width=800&height=600&cropmode=none)

At this stage a rod fitted in the crankshaft bearings turned smoothly with very little shake. The camshaft bearings however weren't well enough aligned and I turned down the outside of the bearing to allow it to move slightly. This may not have been a good idea as the oil feed goes through this and I'll have to work out a way of sealing the bearing in its mounting.

This is my first attempt at a bulid log so I'd appreciate any and all comments! Hope there isn't too much detail in this post?

DT
Title: Re: Len Mason's "Mastiff" - chewed from the solid
Post by: Jasonb on September 22, 2016, 10:59:51 AM
Pictures are showing up fine and you are off to a good start. I also find it best to print the GD drawings to pdf as it seems the best way to publish them. Presentation of your build is fine and having the images in amoung the text is worth the extra effort involved.

Have you been following the twice size one that is being covered in ME at the moment?

J
Title: Re: Len Mason's "Mastiff" - chewed from the solid
Post by: Admiral_dk on September 22, 2016, 06:38:42 PM
I haven't been round to the other thread, but pictures are showing up nicely here and are looking good  :praise2:
Title: Re: Len Mason's "Mastiff" - chewed from the solid
Post by: Dave Otto on September 22, 2016, 08:11:05 PM
Hi DT

Everything is looking great; nice pictures and good information. I will be looking forward to more installments from your Mastiff build.

Dave
Title: Re: Len Mason's "Mastiff" - chewed from the solid
Post by: deltatango on September 28, 2016, 03:07:12 PM
OK, having made the crankcase and the flywheel end bearing I wanted a moving bit so I made the crankshaft. This is the first I.C. engine crank I've made and also the first with more than one throw so I was nervous. Another reason for making this was that it got what I perceived as a difficult bit out of the way.

As Len Mason points out in the book carving big, asymetrical, chunks out of BMS flat can lead to stresses relieving themselves all over the place and the finished part distorting; definitely something to be avoided. Many years ago I managed to "catch" a muffle furnace as it was being thrown out at work, apparently it no longer got hot enough to be useful. The crank blank was a chance to try this out for stress-relieving steel and the good book told me I'd need to hold the blank at ~900C for an hour or two. At first sight the thrower of the furnace was right, the best I could get on the meter was 400C in a furnace that should reach 1200. I wasn't totally convinced and reached for the multimeter and a thermocouple - actual temperature close to 900 and a (very quick and indirect) look inside showed an appropriate colour so I slid the bar in without any more thought. Of course I'd forgotten about scale and when the whole lot had cooled down the blank looked very rough and flakey (sorry, no picture of this) and had to be machined all over to recover:

(https://uqtj1q-sn3301.files.1drv.com/y3mXY50VaVoAeb08y_zgal3GqCNyO9IUXbflT669uC19ywW3TrZyDOk9qcLP24V6fmcEcEFkyIomz6PbZBDKPFtCJBVg6G0yCNSkUsznYOGURuPfKl03G0kUB2o6IY34tXmbR4r19HwsKHFfFw9_xq9YU3EsBWQpaQ0mx3pO5DSPvU?width=800&height=600&cropmode=none)

A lot of this machining was needed anyway but I need to find an Australian source for anti-scaling compound. I've bought "Cherry Red" case hardening compound from a bloke in Qld but he doesn't look to sell the other stuff.

Apart from using Metric fine threads I haven't changed the design of the crank so I won't include a drawing here. The machining mostly followed the book but modified for the available kit which makes thing a lot easier then it would be with an ML7 and a vertical slide. The next step was to put in the three centres at each end:

(https://uqvbgq-sn3301.files.1drv.com/y3m11uM_j0zl0gNijE7YMtcGdGcN8RtLAktcUgL8L3Sx9NsWvk8oGeDhgNjXF_66SXrwH0tdBj1fIASpjyqkmf9uIIwD3YRUEJwzzB8hc9M7phuNYhlychg1dPGaZjX9NR6Uu6e-1GBhqpUmB7iOef9r0lDsxcsCP5EnZ_W44j9iWQ?width=450&height=600&cropmode=none)

using an angle plate nest on the X3 drill-mill, drilling one centre then turning the blank end-for-end to drill to corresponding one should leave these very well aligned.
After some drill and hacksaw work the middle centres were used to rough turn the journals with R and L-hand tangential tools and turn the outside of the webs:

(https://uqulma-sn3301.files.1drv.com/y3m8_1gAuszoF1bRM__SZtyxn_KBDB1yAq4XlDL0VGLo9w-KwMgxQPSddKxdxJv0-vpcB2UUW4ylR5PlfAxflVXKFNRtsrBAL62HvCAC4bGPFFJYISX1rg5giw7sF4OhEUnMnCLZvFlbvA-bE_153LOVSm4lFBK0N3fRoT4D-FE4U8?width=800&height=600&cropmode=none)

No pictures of the Eccentric Engineering tangential tools in action but these are well worth the money. I was sceptical of these in the past but I bought the Aciera F3 from Des Burke who was the original designer of these and, being a real gentleman, Des gave me one of the tools with the mill. They work!

More drilling and sawing to rough out the crankpins and then a long series endmill cleaned up the flanks of the webs (less nerve-wracking for me than turning this skinny, wobbly, piece of metal between centres) :

(https://uqst7a-sn3301.files.1drv.com/y3mwLAHeF8MNvY_Y11RFaAuiraHI_UxEQ3Mf18TN6muWIBm-wtQL8RByjfjYb_oFurRTYYSjEIwH5PsCjq_-O1bm7BF1qE1KyLb3YwdnigsIq0t3ilJe07nTixGUKcH8Xw84ODI8hSK2Srpb-2Uc0R4Sk6qPFQvpuvYO51ms-p33K8?width=800&height=600&cropmode=none)

Eventually I had to get on and, very carefully, turn the middle crankpins with conventional L and R-hand HSS tools that were stiff enough to reach in:

(https://uqsmpq-sn3301.files.1drv.com/y3mVy_NaG2Cb5QcXaNoKIpag4k_nUR21inW0f0zZN6eoKEKQ-gMEurHDvv01hvabENgPzIH54o2QH97LnuuetpGcVfRoe7ozesXtUaqtmM9HbC2DJosZy02HaliCewxK77e3nfuDMLQitT7CmE-vz8K-UoJ53qjSuA3AK3CzF8G1TI?width=800&height=600&cropmode=none)

For the other two crankpins I ground a 1/8" parting blade with a "forked" end as recommended by LM:

(https://uqtcjg-sn3301.files.1drv.com/y3m_u9AbfuL1XX_GFWgCz4N_T-WJVsW9gTrdgKu089INo9dv4eJwiMJQGyAzuAMfi_v5akNOzBOkEcYQxFzaJaV1v6V0Yv9E_w_pTtuck6q3KZYGb_P5KZuoEpDUF8QF4PNaSDCVE4ReKIKmg2LUIwHxl8kyVdNcTpFgXqiQdnolWU?width=800&height=600&cropmode=none)

and in close-up:

(https://tzzqag-sn3301.files.1drv.com/y3moUqhfHcbvOwyK8zbCGu4q8eYVKUMbJXiEpczsWbB8vm1D8_iHvqcS0VTA3qeTt0HjdOXSaYCZGcZS7Y7nQ3GVuPsRi-2mdXDNfCDBwhaQA-LpOoKrmTWdMSv8hUOIPoXcja7wXCW1ZtG100HcWq8fSz4vIbbcalrEj2zFLgmivQ?width=800&height=600&cropmode=none)

I'm pleased with the finish this gave and was very relieved to get this sequence over with. The keyway for the crankshaft timing gear needs a single point tool making. There's no point in trying to file this across a diameter when the real thing is available:

(https://uqv3ag-sn3301.files.1drv.com/y3mlMXzJMBpq4Zr6naItbmgc5j-voFD9kwlGyDB59o7dswdTWic6K789q7Jw6WLCugUUA6w6dx1R8ZCwxUJBq3kaHzqTXsPaZptzLqHAzvi9PWXarklGml1WYYa-fjFaFOQxNYvckXJMH7jT1pQvsOz6sSZpQGwGkmu0cmK1yAKbnc?width=800&height=600&cropmode=none)

I think I left it too soft after tempering and the cutting edge didn't last too well. However, the keyway cleaned up close to the correct width:

(https://uqvpsq-sn3301.files.1drv.com/y3meU8zvbZV4z3PnuiZEPNhUi6axVziWFRwyH7WzWQKp1XGUq7EaRHAeiKIHfZ-KQ61QrMvbz3rpgSnN3UesYQg4FfPqJ-Nv_RlXLE0Ukc5sLoeCF5hKz-ubws7aToyNkiZkQpYUMP1voBibhaHC4LXwt8nQ8R3Bz3VhG5h8Keg0wY?width=800&height=600&cropmode=none)

The two threads were screw-cut with 0.75 pitch and finished with dies but I didn't take pictures. The VFD on the Hercus gives almost instant stop and easy reversing and this has taken much of the stress out of screw cutting as well as speeding things up a lot. The last operations were to drill the oil passages in the crank and the tension rose again, breaking off a drill in the work at this stage would not be good. New long series drills cut well and gave plenty of clearance and visibility and all went well:

(https://tzbkjq-sn3301.files.1drv.com/y3m18Ef8klFxpBl-K7SIFejyIaBrwxfTayLGwihRfgWfp9mkBrKvPDY-vwzf6sWohVCdAQ7GaRe4-wDrIGOERZcvnEc7viq2nbDBzPRbeL1Tkk2hBU8GuMSSTrGBD-7gZGmyarMG9Mz_lOmHwlYfJZMBwaptqsZxICxUcCURGmSzDg?width=800&height=600&cropmode=none)

The finished product:

(https://uqviya-sn3301.files.1drv.com/y3mrKxD38fEmhbYOSc3Y3o853Epg5zF9uR8Br7-D2VBTOqLQZEEXdB4E0ithR8Jzrvb_oubh9r6-mnd58fvk0r7MbaI82VLHQc9NVoI666Tt0-VepBdo_9RiPr2k0CpFgHuWiUx3JE8OY0YKba3h2QUaPBg5I53VEfQDaxnlEMaB1U?width=800&height=600&cropmode=none)

The proof of this particular pudding was in the mounting in the crankcase and the crank turns smoothly with very small clearances. No post-machining distortion has occured so either the metal was good from the start or the stress-relieving worked.

Now I will start making more ali swarf and carve out the base and sump.

DT
Title: Re: Len Mason's "Mastiff" - chewed from the solid
Post by: Jo on September 28, 2016, 03:11:36 PM
 8)

Jo
Title: Re: Len Mason's "Mastiff" - chewed from the solid
Post by: crueby on September 28, 2016, 04:42:52 PM
That crankshaft came out wonderfully!

I have not seen the forked end on the parting tool like that before, what is the reason for it? Is that mainly used for back/forth turning of the surface rather than straight-in parting action? If so, I guess it acts like both a left-handed and a right-handed turning tool?
Title: Re: Len Mason's "Mastiff" - chewed from the solid
Post by: b.lindsey on September 28, 2016, 11:59:54 PM
Great build log thus far DT and excellent pictures to go along with it. Keep it up just as you are doing :)

Bill
Title: Re: Len Mason's "Mastiff" - chewed from the solid
Post by: deltatango on September 29, 2016, 12:43:45 AM
Thanks everyone for the encouragement!

The forked parting tool was suggested by Len Mason with the claim that this gave the stiffness of a wide tool with the cutting edge (and therefore cutting forces) of a narrow one. Just what you need when the tool overhang is extreme. Also you get L- and R-hand tools in one so no messing about with changing tools. I was very pleased with the finish produced, small plunge cuts followed by careful L and R movements did the job.

DT
Title: Re: Len Mason's "Mastiff" - chewed from the solid
Post by: deltatango on October 22, 2016, 04:32:28 AM
I hope that members will be interested in the 3D CAD model of the "Mastiff from the solid" project so I've exported it from Geomagic Design as a 3D .pdf file.

I have failed a few times to post the file on the Forum, the "Internal Server Error" isn't very helpful or informative but I guess the .pdf file is too big for the system. As an alternative I've loaded it in to OneDrive and created a link for downloads:

https://1drv.ms/b/s!AnNmmwsT2XIigi23PfPITSHAp56_ (https://1drv.ms/b/s!AnNmmwsT2XIigi23PfPITSHAp56_)

This file works well when viewed using Adobe Reader DC but doesn't, in my experience, work when you open it in a browser. The file format allows you to view the whole model or any component part (or group of parts) and to cut a section through it at any angle you fancy. If anyone needs any more help with viewing, please ask - it took me a while to find all the features by experiment.

I think the best images appear when you set the "Model Render Mode" to solid outline and the "Enable Extra Lighting" setting to "White Lights" (this is the default anyway).

DT
Title: Re: Len Mason's "Mastiff" - chewed from the solid
Post by: steamer on October 22, 2016, 12:28:40 PM
Nicely done DT!    I'll be doing something very similar this weekend.

Dave
Title: Re: Len Mason's "Mastiff" - chewed from the solid
Post by: deltatango on October 22, 2016, 12:58:39 PM
Moving on with the Mastiff build, onwards and downwards in this case, to the base. There was a pause before cutting metal as I wanted to use the high-speed head on the Aciera and this involved lifting lumps of metal heavier than I am now comfortable with. The solution is shown below:

(https://5tipyq-sn3301.files.1drv.com/y3mS6ltcsh3BJO-d8E24Q9QOHa9sQWRMJQF3Rk8ExWdDfyl7GLyPNE4VbJ-P9CabY2JQCvQhs5GDX9MCY0u6sVEbRC36oVn1dVyw69ArY8Kj0PwtdGO3WZb_g79Dostv7ezkDyPnP-xr-QX9uyNKYFylXPX1pdzZ2tRl1xAMM0AE38?width=450&height=600&cropmode=none)

1.8 m of steel I-beam was clipped to the ceiling beams which are fortunately designed to span the very much wider room next door and deep enough to carry the likely loads easily. The 1/2 ton chain block is also over-kill but it was already in stock. This rig has the capacity to carry large parts of the mill and lathe when the time comes to move them elsewhere.

The base started life as a piece of 12 mm plate squared up in the mill:

(https://fxstpw-sn3301.files.1drv.com/y3mT39muCCkEnlrbckh_3i1sgdh7kwNEkGlu1jp9kk4tBfZ6hA-TjMWCj6p8xn0XZ43-YQSis1rP3oZsY46Qt6TQhB8DdQTk7Q2FFr3FzNrZQLPEUcX-R7TaiyDYrjnl34ogIuZHgLsc2ZdMMiyzofcLdnJzSsN6VM_QeFzGhbGlCQ?width=450&height=600&cropmode=none)

I also took very light cuts over both faces to get rid of the dings and scratches acquired in the scrap box. As with all the parts cutting into the rectangular outline was delayed as long as possible so that the marking out and mounting were easy. The oil drain holes were drilled and countersunk:

(https://fxs07g-sn3301.files.1drv.com/y3mSEG6scJd9dIRcuBWz9z2AxzhrieMpy8-N1Y7KCYimlnGfz9OVm_0PgowNMYk9JHaOq8gM45ZtuF4uO8yb0-a4qsC2MhJ-2IPBZA1-okY0-57FXCW8mGXDMqZhJY1KI9ftlq4IpJEoEAb2FleNZRI7jmLqUvZR2z2yIIrpukyLVU?width=800&height=600&cropmode=none)

and the fixing holes drilled and counterbored from the other side:

(https://fxtq1w-sn3301.files.1drv.com/y3mIwLgCs_fg8SqLWh-ycK2NvYtQrxj9MO22PP0ZDfFj-vrN3Zi8hc4DwQXqVgeP0ch9SePnsIU6TfI1p1MeDQnom02Ox6i-Pa77v0ud6fEbMbS1gDKWabeNy8lFSGkWPxCuqMt1N7drFcEuoQIl9grMvZjh-kxj921Z_ci2Gv1Xgc?width=800&height=600&cropmode=none)

With the mounting holes transfered to the crankcase and tapped the crankcase could be used as a fixture to secure the base while the pocket forming the top half of the sump was outlined with a 6 mm slot drill:

(https://5tj07a-sn3301.files.1drv.com/y3mVAdXVe3XRTmUAtAAmNGqcS8Y--XG6-fqqhwl0YazzEXRsa5qCSLBCIvQ8l7D4k26q1pdp4Ar_Mo0jRBOXm6W_TVZcd786xY6O3NtSrGg5tGNAdrqdFzHyjmx6QunL3RtSM1AamOKMYh0jn3VnQhxRP-KwrVZYYaTebW0YjrJaDs?width=800&height=600&cropmode=none)

I got nervous about using the crankcase as a jig when using a bigger cutter to clean out the rest of the metal and clamped the base directly to the mill table:

(https://5tgjjw-sn3301.files.1drv.com/y3mRMB_60Ccc89pjuR4CHcTJKDgNfEkZLw3cR-QPurCK006gUl2BAj46ICP3J5l16BILMnYZ7x-_MllJAxxY2zQrmS0ubWKS0qWN5y4CWF8EWShW0FhtU7Zi1rDsX3CbkRaPunBY87iFJCqIrzJ3hTiB2Orgc8FRbXVuD6mulGoCkI?width=800&height=600&cropmode=none)

Shaping the sides involved the high speed head and a new solid carbide endmill:

(https://s2sy1q-sn3301.files.1drv.com/y3m0d9HwQUHAMly-BNzLtZu3i_xa3y_5dxDhLGnMoH5UZL9hE63vYhQ-tWo4-xUXHAUroKla01Fut0cAW1CKcjheNu33q6RGGA-CwJ9dpiIrt3KiD_UDJAxu3O_8lvM1vYAfhzlA1U5-D1y_z8xjn1xzNxR8wXfpv6IuynjcuUMFtg?width=800&height=600&cropmode=none)

and a lot of twisting and turning of the workpiece

(https://5thgvw-sn3301.files.1drv.com/y3mFqifrUyzfYVPJZWgA16CSHZtWhd30iKQ7m4bpkA6YzbN9Y1fx6wkVzDNO4vUTBjIu0DYjwiP4qbEMwCo-s9g7FXG1XUsvHdYELN18F5Ak3ok6zei4zvd0g4Fvd1ypTpOZP5_qoih4I5k5aN8KEkxu3xhEeheuHnCEcwLUrGVywU?width=450&height=600&cropmode=none)

The final operation was to put 45 degree chamfers on the "legs"

(https://s2qeqa-sn3301.files.1drv.com/y3mVYV0pUqLeYALJnQ8CkFKvrI2yMQWNGTGy9sxgagTFGt09Wu4Iape8IqWz3Rye4ZBL2yeva1bJ8FUS58MhzGODMsfKvK1_21dwDbEJeVTm3S0xRaD002F9QkWcHCVfMVO-BdSCZbzMnEPjrB1ybcpWazwFq166JhtrFPd6MRyXHw?width=800&height=600&cropmode=none)

With a final result that looks like:

(https://s2s5ha-sn3301.files.1drv.com/y3m-p0DflflZZMi7ALnOFxnsyEyB9zPcuqoVPMZ7f6iC35W4sxdGo2O9Am7WM3JtIWRyhZUYEwcyPQC1neiWmZG6eJTHq8rXZmRaZdmUXXubfGUfyylEcVBRSXC-SaLxpOyP8cZJeyHm1qNX41_6EDj9P0AgCHKRixOFTXqvYh030I?width=800&height=600&cropmode=none)

on the top and like this on the underside:

(https://s2sdmw-sn3301.files.1drv.com/y3mBdl3T4P0xXFNkqisCkpGxvzbHedums2uD-cf0vSCt_elj-8NCDMrb0wj2inKCtk2OZVfVGvayZpSdT8CZgc2g_oi61L4-SEyvw119F3fOhXZLiIiS6b_bZWhLx3veT_rVCfHqs2vbud12uHIjiVPCMPxxBckSyirKE_mGpPUApE?width=800&height=600&cropmode=none)

A few dings and cutter overshoots are visible but nothing to affect function.

DT
Title: Re: Len Mason's "Mastiff" - chewed from the solid
Post by: deltatango on October 22, 2016, 01:06:55 PM
Thanks "steamer" Dave.

I also have a similar file for "Minnie" which I could post the same way. Right now my "workshop job" is the Mastiff build, my "computer job" is building a CAD model of the next project, ETW's Wyvern. Hopefully this will, along with Ron's great Wyvern build log, will help sort out the difficulties builders find with the Wyvern drawings.

DT
Title: Re: Len Mason's "Mastiff" - chewed from the solid
Post by: kvom on October 22, 2016, 01:15:12 PM
Nice job on the crankshaft and base.   :ThumbsUp:
Title: Re: Len Mason's "Mastiff" - chewed from the solid
Post by: steamer on October 22, 2016, 01:52:34 PM
Hey DT...is that an F3?

I have an F1....Love my Aciera!
....and no Jo, you STILL can't have it...... 8-)
Title: Re: Len Mason's "Mastiff" - chewed from the solid
Post by: b.lindsey on October 22, 2016, 02:49:03 PM
That base is pretty intricate DT. Came out very well though...nice !!!

Bill
Title: Re: Len Mason's "Mastiff" - chewed from the solid
Post by: Jo on October 22, 2016, 05:26:48 PM
I have an F1....Love my Aciera!
....and no Jo, you STILL can't have it...... 8-)

Dave you seem to forget I have Sexy  :embarassed:

Jo
Title: Re: Len Mason's "Mastiff" - chewed from the solid
Post by: steamer on October 22, 2016, 07:55:27 PM
You still have a think for her....  8-)
Title: Re: Len Mason's "Mastiff" - chewed from the solid
Post by: deltatango on October 22, 2016, 10:44:08 PM
Yes Dave, it's an ancient F3, along with the high speed head, horizontal overarm, slotting head, simple dividing head, small angle table and tilting table. This is a lovely machine to use and, despite around 50 or 60 years of wear still capable of very good work. When things don't go quite right there's no question about where the blame lies! I've seen pictures of the F1 (and Sixis etc equivalents) but never got to play with one, I might even have room to squeeze one in if it ever became available locally but all precision mills are about as available as hen's teeth and rocking horse droppings on this side of the world.
DT
Title: Re: Len Mason's "Mastiff" - chewed from the solid
Post by: Art K on October 22, 2016, 11:25:54 PM
DT,
I wanted to let you know that I've been following along. Good work on a tough project.
Art
Title: Re: Len Mason's "Mastiff" - chewed from the solid
Post by: deltatango on October 22, 2016, 11:52:57 PM
Thanks Art and Bill, I like carving metal but there is a chance that chewing the whole Mastiff project from the solid may cure me of this!
DT
Title: Re: Len Mason's "Mastiff" - chewed from the solid
Post by: steamer on October 23, 2016, 11:26:08 AM
Yes Dave, it's an ancient F3, along with the high speed head, horizontal overarm, slotting head, simple dividing head, small angle table and tilting table. This is a lovely machine to use and, despite around 50 or 60 years of wear still capable of very good work. When things don't go quite right there's no question about where the blame lies! I've seen pictures of the F1 (and Sixis etc equivalents) but never got to play with one, I might even have room to squeeze one in if it ever became available locally but all precision mills are about as available as hen's teeth and rocking horse droppings on this side of the world.
DT

Yeah about the same over here too.    I'm afraid most of the good stuff has gone into new Chinese cement mixers ect.     I've got the index head, the dividing head, the fixed table, The swivel base, and the little bity vise.   A full set of collets and arbors, the overarm for both the spindle and index/dividing head, and the lever feeds.    It's a great little mill.

Dave
Title: Re: Len Mason's "Mastiff" - chewed from the solid
Post by: Doc on October 23, 2016, 02:56:33 PM
Just want to say I'm following along and thats some nice work you have done. I really like the main block she looks sweet! Nice job on the crank stress relieving usually helps a lot in parts warping and moving around. Good job!
Title: Re: Len Mason's "Mastiff" - chewed from the solid
Post by: deltatango on October 24, 2016, 05:02:44 AM
Thanks Doc!
Title: Re: Len Mason's "Mastiff" - chewed from the solid
Post by: deltatango on November 01, 2016, 12:35:23 PM
The next bit of the Mastiff to tackle was the sump and here is piece that would really benefit from being a casting, unless of course you are the patternmaker.

I wasn't at first convinced that it was even worth cutting the fins at all but measuring the areas from the CAD model shows an increase from 68 cm2 to about 115 cm2, nearly double. There may be a useful improvement in oil cooling after all.

The blank was squared up as for the base and the sump hollowed out as for that part. After drilling and counterboring the fixing screw holes the mill table set over to 10 degrees in the YZ plane and the first side of the fins cut with a 6 mm solid carbide endmill running abot 2000 RPM in the high speed head:

(https://9gbk0g-sn3301.files.1drv.com/y3mHQ2GA7Z2MkZtnxW6urd0_QHjEh1Gy9FqP98UAL3lPuHfQ6yOuTubfSF2Z2fshd4bI5BZYr6O4h8qHkwwdP7TMuroMB421jkL7J8pJWGYMAdrhDFLrd9XBsrdUQFjtDvpAKp7GjztDNzrIN-482YIQlVhbYZ5Kr2yuUSR_s3-tFg?width=800&height=600&cropmode=none)
(https://9gzqrw-sn3301.files.1drv.com/y3m4J6AmF2ZtTgXnrqPcGA-hidMzyL48HUjwjJzj_4V5U58FbXkDL5-1P2Yu25UiFMaXQkSVZHYz5bLh7ncWDFTq4ecB9hc6OkbFDVof6XrOvVJk_otEJGK6bVF9go6mp1x4VY6lqhK6KWppUOw8DWcg9D7rks9EnJjsRZDjNSYWgs?width=800&height=600&cropmode=none)

The fins around the oil drain hole had to be cut from each end:

(https://hmitka-sn3301.files.1drv.com/y3mlm5gK8ZTw6ssjirLXQknBW2eMOCRzMeHpqtqxk4KVp5F2nA1kC5h6l5gWpvONns48LFLQS1R1vIbN9G4uxlgEtzAVF3en4mrL_OqxXlIL_CwJWLDBlrbyLjgFQwhv7LB3edx55L3ikIDoZwCv5mS8H89qfkN-TqiKnjh2wDy_FE?width=800&height=600&cropmode=none)

after finishing one side of the fins the sump was turned around in the vice and the other sides cut the same way to leave the job looking like:

(https://hmkuba-sn3301.files.1drv.com/y3mp0yqHpsLGwLen6N11--WMF8G5p2F3OYLc8LXyfb2ovnXR5765fk9CTJqxnekx_Hb_a2V5g9J11d4VEFQYuirRATGIYEZM2eaVF7DMlchzT5MskSa-3i7RWGxpT9UeFtBlkQ3CwFF3vcl4_Zl1evmnKEpNPfQKz40Z2sEQdEOvV0?width=800&height=600&cropmode=none)

There was a narrow ridge left between the two middle fins which was removed last:

(https://hmldpg-sn3301.files.1drv.com/y3m7letBNlfoy6ABUXpqeJoaKyhdv0bK7ACdudG2VXu9AhSL-c6kQqP6P0t9sYPTXSjCVd5cdJ1ce01Pne12YMzuQBgutrGhsARY77goeA-fUppnH7c2WW5Kz_cL38eEZXiSwjHAmYE7CN2iLbsZdKQ_fRIXyU8vuXlE1ddPsEcAoo?width=800&height=600&cropmode=none)

but I left the slight ridges between the other fins as a "feature". To finish off the mill table was returned level and a very light cut taken over the bottom surface with a 50 mm face mill (6 APGT inserts) and WD40 for lubricant, a combination that leaves a very fine finish.

(https://gu3kmq-sn3301.files.1drv.com/y3mzk_z9-WISswR9igersOKvUu_204qJoSHk8QdMhjX-edbsvhzrQR6gQTXqIqBgeSuC4V5Hfse73oi9NncIF7dT5tlZ_bHgT7WmdEwtHCcsBQxM-Rmw7wXDm7SZrvCAfdBCaXa7CYxkLcXJq5llM-dtP9335ogFNaoT6UADr3ZJRQ?width=800&height=600&cropmode=none)

Progress so far looks like:
(https://gu0agw-sn3301.files.1drv.com/y3mJhNv_omjfDQPqqKFHZ7waFNGd5qoOVMNyBLYd-KFxqNdT0dbs_YOUV4moNOu7O_48IrRfmNYBujKTfkt6EOEovzp4iCa7iZlSbxaSTo_Zq4DguvHJPhfBJx1F1szUXxiXGOaUSHPZ1h6PuLA-xAIvCDCpryvt5YB5NRm_UwMPGM?width=800&height=600&cropmode=none)

Begining to look like an engine perhaps?

On the Aciera F3 the angle of the milling heads and the angles of the table are all adjustable and when I first had the machine I couldn't see how it was possible to tram the heads, looks to be too many variables. There are angle scales that get you very close but not spot on (except by luck). Then I noticed the two pairs of taper pin holes through the table and the table support bracket halves, one pair in the XZ plane and one in the YZ. Some time in the past the pins had gone missing but it didn't take long to make replacements.

The nasty sting in the tail came after I'd finished the sump and started to use the high speed head to square up the billet for the timing case, there were nasty ridges that suggested that the quill was "nodding" in the YZ plane and the front of the cut was deeper than the back, not good, as this is the only place where there isn't any adjustment possible.  I think this must come from wear in the quill or, just possibly, misalignment in the bearings. Sometime soon I'm going to have to pull the high speed head apart and investigate but that requires a lot of thought!

DT

PS I haven't been getting notifications of new posts for some weeks now. PstechPaul suggested logging out and back in but this doesn't look to have worked. Does anyone have any other ideas?
Title: Re: Len Mason's "Mastiff" - chewed from the solid
Post by: steamer on November 01, 2016, 02:43:49 PM
Looking great!!!

Dave
Title: Re: Len Mason's "Mastiff" - chewed from the solid
Post by: b.lindsey on November 01, 2016, 02:52:59 PM
Looking great DT. Its nice to see the various pieces together in a family shot!

Bill
Title: Re: Len Mason's "Mastiff" - chewed from the solid
Post by: gbritnell on November 01, 2016, 02:57:59 PM
DT,
Chewing parts from solid becomes addictive when you see the finished results.
gbritnell
Title: Re: Len Mason's "Mastiff" - chewed from the solid
Post by: Dave Otto on November 01, 2016, 03:56:42 PM
Looks very nice DT

Dave
Title: Re: Len Mason's "Mastiff" - chewed from the solid
Post by: deltatango on November 15, 2016, 12:36:04 AM
Many thanks for the encouragment everyone! The next bits are the timing case and its cover which are better made as a pair to get the outer shapes to match closely. The detailed shape isn't all that critical but any misalignment will stick out like the proverbials.

As usual the parts started as squared-up billets, marked out as carefully as I could using slip gauges on the surface plate. Then into the mill to bore the holes for the cam- and crankshafts:

(https://so9uvg-sn3301.files.1drv.com/y3mGVf7P3yDyBbc3-SkO7Jly7ggTk5bozeRYHDQwmDKUA8mKmQPUYg26uSNxx24wMo_Z1BQEaQSJFp5HxVb-DJOGNIgChR1JAazKtGsZm8swsdInwgYT_mId9IJYBejSS4x-Xyq-MjGclpSE-gMmESVV5DWk9mIZpq_VFZjsJuo4Fc?width=800&height=600&cropmode=none)

Building a nest on the mill-drill table means you can bore the holes for the auxilliary drive shaft for the contact breaker and the oil pump from both ends and be sure of them lining up:

(https://uqvhya-sn3301.files.1drv.com/y3mdUSRI_TBC71k_-Nq1MYV_Aubi8J1I6ieM0qZBYMbebPSpU6D-QSnnIyp7N7sBWXP8d6fQy4ZcOhm7JP8yrc3koGNPbhEd9J32Lj4bux0uhzQCo_hTpUK4_aeppuEinYTvPztKqIQdwO-chzncy5kI5AwRTKU3t5p30rwIE-sOus?width=800&height=600&cropmode=none)

Then on to the faceplate to bore out the chambers for the timing gears:

(https://uqti1q-sn3301.files.1drv.com/y3mRDjraPk0tKSCCl2HnLgf_R5o0PamHHje4g5neAIhbjzoi8cgoTSeDWdxhYLvzLXRfj_eowgcEtOGXC_suViHJfIWr1FJuo-upKx76vyVQs5mu2egvaNhT891jL-xM3v37Vy_UAwJYXLfMdabQKjNBsMlkAUk04ZAeUT4iJzsBDI?width=800&height=600&cropmode=none)

setting the depth of the bores with slips from the saddle stop:

(https://tzzpag-sn3301.files.1drv.com/y3maIhv6GY2poWKcCKqwiF6pwYSSr4-cWI3POHTzFZQISvQS0wEezJBQT7b-VKiepy0wqqgKunP63_l3-jUbiasYjp-pd70le2pXUIYxz7I1l2XKt8N_EWZcH_tq2C0vc7fI1TbZr-vGAcctMFq7MqcTN95sNqqY5Ia7vz4Ug53HaQ?width=800&height=600&cropmode=none)

and digging out the chambers:

(https://uqv9sq-sn3301.files.1drv.com/y3m2RSZ8JaSfa0sSBw_6wgpUgGyYdl9Dl2vfwN1IphGLEBoIWnNGrrxRZ-3E4NgpEZhVPq2vzbcA8Cats5K2D0d4gSSWIi_NU2DZgZA40XJ8_Qm79udZTaqmTETgtNRJk4YM-UqtqBj69ClzzD9TurILutzp6G8mvtauV4PtZ5KUQ8?width=800&height=600&cropmode=none)

 When I tried the timing case on the crankcase the shaft centres didn't quite match the centres of the holes that have to clear the bearings (sorry, no picture, I was thinking "Oh bother", or words to that effect, at the time and worrying about how to correct things). Time for deep breaths and careful measurement:

(https://soqtsq-sn3301.files.1drv.com/y3m60ephAM1Q1oykX1h4wJM4pRm66jDr5gj39zBBOo8HbZw5vpaGNxfvNXJsXtCzoTXtu_4P3JkkiJQpUhTnzunVELUwNnCnkvutDACclNVN9pMsv04CRW7QxYGFO-w6a49tMdgh-ekwgRJudJglo9uNebE2bwVeayW5IG38JGKDmY?width=800&height=600&cropmode=none)

It looks like the only thing I got spot-on on the crankcase was the shaft centre distance (phew!) the shafts were 10 to 20 thou off centre in the block, not a lot but then I'd goofed with setting up the timing case for the very first bores. May have messed up the arithmetic with the edge detector, don't really know. Anyway, there was just enough metal to re-bore, so back into the mill:

(https://tzbjjq-sn3301.files.1drv.com/y3mfM4PRv1TfY2_E_71BJ-lIpSfACzvOOUb6BhcxuvrSVsZkTHwOX2BzNvZF-xACdjQmlOoKmpdUu8se3Ru6xhohkKUCUWwokPE_wptRINGz8H6pUWtL9tLWxW-XIPrzpz6KcJYxZoO-HmiC7FFo_ysMQPKeP8KwipeAY1E4ERkVXI?width=800&height=600&cropmode=none)

With that experience behind me I marked out and set up the blank for the cover plate very carefully and drilled and bored the main holes and fixing holes:

(https://tzzpya-sn3301.files.1drv.com/y3mUvpZFQicrnz_ZX1IN-vtQh57LA1i63SSQ4oGcPAO8Bu_8rKtIN3gssazNU-hcj4qKAX8jbuGeUyxLpESgkJ2Ed7KWZowmbJJTLoiSQshZm8t-hb9f5MmfNJybl6DGzzEQbGcFxizAemwkXyKiroxzs9SDuy3i0clfNllsYWevM0?width=800&height=600&cropmode=none)

Most of the cover plate is only 1/8th" thick and I removed a lot of material in the mill:

(https://tzygvg-sn3301.files.1drv.com/y3mYoLEyY8Yz5vlQPje5HEet2063phkifgHoSPsB7lHRvO3lBfxOhBGUWuSfPIKCmRdnkXrKXHmkTY_e4U2OOYb8Q6dIDB9ckVxa_IAF1UQaccDC--BTC-Qn0FFjgV-znNNwAADGLibtuZXyaodq26M_zats_QzTJXPSToblO7hRiM?width=800&height=600&cropmode=none)

before turning a steel mandrel to locate the plate from the distributor mounting hole and turn away the rest to thickness:

(https://tzzwpw-sn3301.files.1drv.com/y3m-PaOKQP404RxJ-llgUa173rTC1eEmXSM5JalXopALof0ekHuUBNpu7LW6KUi3URvdY4E0mnqekoJpmD3N1yevkGX4iA_fMfEVNS6vnhP265z2sEuq19XyS-6z65E62uYSIdRVDM5m0rbLYUCIOK7nr-CPR1aVpGo1ZIh-HEuQmY?width=800&height=600&cropmode=none)

To get the outsides of the case and cover to match the final fixings were drilled and tapped:

(https://tzafsq-sn3301.files.1drv.com/y3muhiZcbc3RFiWRhaJVzSrejvt86Rc5Qd1991CZfEib5iJBDPfmePkTldPUYoNZJMjRW64Gr4fFoihajf3h1-pqiBSkCddnWXOtZgQBq67xllOEA1R6swMa2vc3GRP_LJyjdy0gwMrvPIf0oeN4M-rUmvIxu-93JSLbShnzex6gDE?width=800&height=600&cropmode=none)

and the fixing screws used to keep everything lined up while the outside was carved to shape:

(https://tza7mg-sn3301.files.1drv.com/y3mIIVsDYXr7HDlDFHQbOPJGR0JR2znchEyUwi8PoXDvTfTKCGpzGG7nZOVO2hitozusA12pQ-Ajv4Gc33HOmOibzVY4eoxkOE2xZqVuro2cYMNjAbF_eiOmbZn74Y2dR-0QRuzvKnFuTyM3CcXqD39_KvGJ6TWJhNn2TjcYOr5kyg?width=800&height=600&cropmode=none)

The surface finish from the face mill isn't the best (probably needs flood coolant) but I'm less concerned with this now; my experience so far is that the surface gets damaged with further clamping etc and will need a final clean-up anyway.

The products look like:

(https://sopdya-sn3301.files.1drv.com/y3mNPvfxuBZyhwHPR759D9V5br5DmOwy7E9Bmc9onaRQ3TdJEREsvByQtqgJjm5rSjaojhj86LCFmDG45kqubSmmHXKTx0n5UNy2M7oCVQA9sHwEA78aoEQ1TI4UEtbPzlr8_M5cb5uBIatnPWuN7NuJz6X-dFhbTv6BNS7VRA8Ss4?width=800&height=600&cropmode=none)

The "family group" this time is slightly faked using Blu-Tack as I want to leave drilling the fixing holes into the crankcase until I can check the meshing of the auxilliary drive gears:

(https://uqss7a-sn3301.files.1drv.com/y3mwxmD1wl1goRKDHTghypdl_Iaov8Y6fmf_nAOdySV2d9x3o6BTeR-7ukGqfo4Bh1xz0-Kb_dBZR0PIAxE2dBvIIFhzE31_-4sN62Qs12UzsriFfaBvBjU92QxBJGrnyoK5T3E3wLz1YrnAT5X6psg7HGZIjqhgcF27Hr3soMcYYc?width=450&height=600&cropmode=none)

With this experience of setting up errors a DRO for the mill, plus an electronic edge finder, have gone on the Christmas list!
I think I need a rest from carving Al alloy for a while and the next bits will be the camshaft, tappets and timing gears.

DT
Title: Re: Len Mason's "Mastiff" - chewed from the solid
Post by: steamer on November 15, 2016, 01:06:06 AM
Consider the use of some "Toolmakers Buttons"  next time you're locating stuff like that....I think it's far easier, and more accurate.

Dave
Title: Re: Len Mason's "Mastiff" - chewed from the solid
Post by: deltatango on November 15, 2016, 01:12:30 AM
Thanks Dave, that is a very good idea (and a kick in the right direction towards doing things properly).

I've read several descriptions of using buttons but never yet tried the method. When you're self taught there's always a lot of things you miss out on.

DT
Title: Re: Len Mason's "Mastiff" - chewed from the solid
Post by: steamer on November 15, 2016, 01:18:33 AM
No problem DT..    Go to this post   Page 2

http://www.modelenginemaker.com/index.php?topic=237.10

I machined my oil pump using toolmakers buttons to locate the gears.   Once I had the mesh correct, and the buttons tightened down, you slide the gears off and set up on the lathe or the mill and locate on the button.    Then machine.

Dave
Title: Re: Len Mason's "Mastiff" - chewed from the solid
Post by: steamer on November 15, 2016, 01:19:34 AM
Buttons can be any convenient diameter, like the ID of a gear for instance.   They need to be round, and the ends square.

Dave
Title: Re: Len Mason's "Mastiff" - chewed from the solid
Post by: steamer on November 15, 2016, 01:27:27 AM
Take a look at reply #443 ....it shows the idler gear button being used to as a spindle to locate the idler gear mesh just so.

Dave
Title: Re: Len Mason's "Mastiff" - chewed from the solid
Post by: deltatango on November 15, 2016, 10:41:23 AM
Hm, I was wondering just how I'd line up the cylinder centre lines with the crankcase holes, maybe I now know how!
Thanks, Dave - DT
Title: Re: Len Mason's "Mastiff" - chewed from the solid
Post by: kevin beevers on November 27, 2016, 06:39:13 PM
hello,i am new here and just looking around and would like to say that is a great job
kevin
Title: Re: Len Mason's "Mastiff" - chewed from the solid
Post by: deltatango on November 28, 2016, 03:07:42 AM
Hi Kevin
Welcome! I haven't been a member for very long myself.  Keep looking around, there is a lot of information and a lot of very knowledgeable and helpful people on the forum.
DT
Title: Re: Len Mason's "Mastiff" - chewed from the solid
Post by: Roger B on December 09, 2016, 09:53:56 PM
I'm still following along and enjoying  :ThumbsUp:  :ThumbsUp:  :wine1:
Title: Re: Len Mason's "Mastiff" - chewed from the solid
Post by: deltatango on January 25, 2017, 12:12:20 AM
After rather a long break its time to show some progress with Mastiff. Apart from all the other very welcome family activities we were away from home over Christmas. In mid-December we welcomed our younger son and his wife back to Australia after 10 years in the UK. They will stay with us until they find jobs etc etc… This very welcome disruption has lead to a clear-out of the house and somewhat of a loss of workshop time.

As a change from carving Al alloy I made a start on the cams, camshaft and camshaft drive. The tappets are straight-forward items needing only some hexagonal stock to be made for the locknuts and silver steel with two flats for the heads:

(https://uquqdw-sn3301.files.1drv.com/y3mNaxVKyLw7ZWFo_NnnoxcohMg1-KHp5Q-MHQqWqbC0BIEQzEnyUnEmlI8gH7PZfuUYzORPYdF2hEj1kW-QyCzH4oHiv72g9XxXcrE3KwK4reYykj-qpcZZVGh2wqm_NF4laYCaSYxtrCuannh95h8-lCE19N1k8uWdBmZmqEp140?width=800&height=600&cropmode=none)

The bodies are from ¼” silver steel, hardened and polished. The family got together and bought me a macro lens for my birthday so there will probably be too many very close up shots in the log for a while. However, each finished tappet assembly looks like:

(https://uqsr7a-sn3301.files.1drv.com/y3mz85xcJFVkE-_95k458QZ2sf7K5WtC-HQ5MQ0xdQsP6Cxo9jDN84AtTqqVSJwPlGCGmTyA_bzRol2tg8vS-eDCL4OH_FQ-l1MofDUbdaqNrF8-qF1DgMqUQjxmWEdNVJJczKJn60iX_lljTrQk5VtQPIqaeHve229TsiRx-RubGY?width=800&height=600&cropmode=none)

The two camshaft bushes in the block obviously need to line up but on checking before going any further, they didn’t. The timing end bush was spot on, the other end not so good, in fact a 3/8th shaft wouldn’t enter it. The cause of the mess up is lost in the mists of 2016 but it had to be fixed with an eccentric bush. The misalignment was estimated by using a sharply pointed rod to mark the correct centre on a dummy bush and then set this up in a four-jaw chuck to drill and ream:

(https://uqujma-sn3301.files.1drv.com/y3msf3zfcYg1VBgOagtTEgEnabS2irvLcKTXb8CmD998AjzLmNppy9pTNUr9JeU4ZMq0ge8JaAGomAefJm64AJKVYVGX4O1mZlEXTt6nWEadLVk4NNhzvADevwPnLVSof7GT4BLA7ukfPVBS9w7k_aCLN1VTR_sxwmqtRCPf6VFELo?width=800&height=600&cropmode=none)

The new bush was drilled at the same setting and silver soldered to a disc of gunmetal prepared in the soft jaws:

(https://gu3qea-sn3301.files.1drv.com/y3mL3TvfQDHQeXK6xT7ukW_nrYmIl5LL2WXCLcnYV0lGIdKRO9glw8rZbndmomdYwPyVphfAFPNlXJ__8RufOgBr5jp7z6uBmXe0fRzrTZ94GgUGzcnNJutqjMqqxlvL96wwZ47PI3bZlGNP85Aj9jf5pDTKuPpOcDlB9ls9qZdl84?width=800&height=600&cropmode=none)

(https://gu1r7q-sn3301.files.1drv.com/y3mm8EsxxyxfsPe-LNdyhcfDJfXiELVipo5VFmNoxJ1ch-bDhWK4kbEnghJ96QYEgfchiCV52B9CtMmGJvJc4i1UWvFZ8JSeeed8S1t0gqXnzQfuy2VzzqRBupLdFCtgq1JAOzxEiVCxgxBNCdTpNa2Brv8m1JoEWwooJMFuG2kO9I?width=800&height=600&cropmode=none)

And trimmed square:

(https://uqtajg-sn3301.files.1drv.com/y3mNsgdwsKn08511_a5GiskpkPG8m-fxxpEZ7XCF5DbUr9F8nH6gPTnFN5tUTA7ilnpZG0abjLjzF_QF50u_P3A06cLG4DKjlqq1L_iXEN0vOtStdb_TS6eF2tsdxJoj8qmc1AwMus8r1yb_1TtIF6tglxUD30O9qXzCZWvkK9FJXs?width=800&height=600&cropmode=none)

With a 3/8th rod for location the flange outline was scribed on and the fixing hole locations set:

(https://uqskpq-sn3301.files.1drv.com/y3mqAx67hY4ZMYA4hfS2xU8oTD73goNzAJEBLb-XndBRKQHYhh7n4oOG91jXAqjNDK_QtdNEOU0Z_xKZyrLIlhoVbGp0PI3hCovf72KL59TQYx4W2er0BJAN60231JujkklrjRfPwF9bKw8Sd5LF81VdoKRZUDRU61kHlAyFt2orJI?width=800&height=600&cropmode=none)

OK, now it lines up, ready for the camshaft:

(https://uqv8sq-sn3301.files.1drv.com/y3mjyKFuUwRPAQWRSn6bYiDB3Lrpn3GDfug1y6RHUCkAvhmH4BmZGiEJdji9_NbmM4NFsJA78aDsOWblZ4oPSpweKs7xF1dysRsHbq2KvBruIHJ5P9AVn4AVhJ7n1m93zlw6clHjxLkdStH28xFtYUKgv2DAlU_Kn3Y1aG22E0xUWk?width=800&height=600&cropmode=none)

Now I just have to remember to drill the oilways!

DT
Title: Re: Len Mason's "Mastiff" - chewed from the solid
Post by: Art K on January 25, 2017, 02:19:00 AM
DT,
Glad to see that you are up and running again with good progress. I like your creative fix to an off center bushing boss. I probably would have set the block back up re-machined it and put in an oversized bushing since I wouldn't be comfortable that I had it centered right. Your solution gets the same result w/o the extra setup. Great job...
Art
Title: Re: Len Mason's "Mastiff" - chewed from the solid
Post by: deltatango on January 25, 2017, 05:32:07 AM
Thanks Art.
Re-bushing would be a bit hair raising  - there is a lot of work gone into the crankcase that I'm reluctant to put at risk. Also there is slightly less than 2 mm of metal between the top of the bore for the bush and the top deck of the crankcase. In a cast iron or steel block I might have tried silver soldering in a plug and expecting that the sliver of metal left from it after reboring would stay fixed, in Al I'm not sure glue would stay put, might be wrong.

I was lucky (and a bit surprised) that the method worked out first time - I was prepared to try again with another dummy brass bush if I'd had to.
DT
Title: Re: Len Mason's "Mastiff" - chewed from the solid
Post by: deltatango on February 11, 2017, 01:09:08 AM
With the camshaft bushes lined up properly I now had to get on and make the cams – I hadn’t done this before and it looked difficult. The method for making cams described by Len Mason in the mastiff book looked far too complicated and it’s no surprise that a few other ways have been published. After a lot of searching around on the web I found the work of Rod Jenkins, as modified by Ron Chernich, and this looked like the way to go considering the workshop gear that I have. The hassle of running Java code on Windows (and the usual desire to find out what’s inside anything) motivated me to re-write the software in Python 3; when I’m convinced that the cam-follower velocities and accelerations are OK I’ll let the program loose. The offsets needed for cutting cams look good and text files for the Mastiff inlet and exhaust cams are attached. These are tabulated at 1° steps but cutting at 3° intervals worked well for me.

The cams started as two lengths of ½” silver steel  which were necked down to leave four cam blanks in a row:

(https://hmktba-sn3301.files.1drv.com/y3mqvbe9TSHNwjXmQuzyyBC61PUOlQ3dUtaCLfCc3Lzu1qtUoVIpJdrAcxjtvbUxI35Czr0hlSguaY0ZOPcCLoSChmvPV3ThsOtrEoN_5ZKd-9g_93A2xAkpH_0H3n72nUjM051YiRf5N38m-6QH0BxBbVYS6dtwb-IhDsWaGtqISc?width=800&height=600&cropmode=none)

Transferred to the dividing head on the mill the blanks were (rather laboriously) cut to the base circle radius for 240° (inlet) and 230° (exhaust) in 3° steps. About now the urge towards CNC became even stronger.

(https://gu2tsa-sn3301.files.1drv.com/y3m9eZT-4aJYaMdywdJAFg1nYOQUphz-eGMPJ-JFYOAcFeGLjLtnHfEAwmSaGququUTiF0uxI_9QASYH8-J_olCuxfHi9lsm7Sshyw1igEY_P4bYixnrPCOnUMlEjqHFZO-Hflvjo2Quoc66w7aARvGEUvYI1q8IrWfIR9_gchooy4?width=800&height=600&cropmode=none)
(https://gu2ajw-sn3301.files.1drv.com/y3mS2RQlzBhn4N3oERL3pBNpox7CwxZcpJToSF1-5bNOH9YRwP-6ogYA0RJwgbi14zhCXH0Xzf5n22gz6js5fxgKZ8TNNjkixg9qU1IbSAm_11Dt_ffRKwm0_um7sNbuVQCg44uHyyFfhIWl3mSejFZ1nye3iEYcBfpo3mAzmrSEyc?width=800&height=600&cropmode=none)

The rest of the cam profiles were then stepped through (this is the second set where I added tailstock support to improve the surface finish a little):
(https://gu3jmq-sn3301.files.1drv.com/y3mRwMokNl8Uk-b_APGnchk2KkPfVpRxS0FBe9JkJBdWMhNiZt-gzx7oYf8ZtSM5I_q_xkRALiwfl32uB1-6RrpVaQgUV_WejKz5Q7riQia_dpZHl-XjWITsoTW9JMIiKRivqBNR_G8sPzTOv5-iegsf-cG5RuuwBsYARwl-MDb2uI?width=800&height=600&cropmode=none)

 An outbreak of stupidity made this process much harder than it should have been – when going “over the top” of the cam I twice messed up by, completely without realising, changed the direction I was turning the dividing head handle. Must be something in my psychology?? Anyway, I’m not into analysis so I decided to fix the problem mechanically and burrowed in to 40+ years worth of “things that would come in handy sometime” (known to someone else as “all that junk down there”). What I found was a pair of gears (original use long forgotten) with a one-way clutch between them:
(https://hmiska-sn3301.files.1drv.com/y3mz7jAO2lza3xixFrbcb95QYxgpXwFlXzxYKl0gB5Zh8ueGOpVM2PHVUaBjIHDq7aovZoleM4raOGICznXlcKWpD-Ef225msT2YMW9fYP7l5PwiPhGwQJhXFYedzzjWhVq9nKu3DSfRDo5c7EKgBLf6z6Mc24021ljZdRfLlJ09Y4?width=800&height=600&cropmode=none)

With a simple adaptor sleeve this fitted neatly on to the dividing head drive shaft:
(https://gu1kpg-sn3301.files.1drv.com/y3mbJ0-oB0D73pSBm5HLZhu0XdYx0VUVKCRFtD_Hte3bfryZpORla-LGtyD9ICWkiBPlb_xAyss-Oae5oh4MYUz2bguU-6s6nhL6INfvu87z3iagqZ2NHsWhETZlm-2rFGiDyP2Mwq13DoOIO_P6UCDGQF-DjogMjc3WM2W6_UqMis?width=800&height=600&cropmode=none)

Now it didn’t matter what happened inside my head, the shaft could only turn anticlockwise and the two sets of cams were ready for polishing and parting off. The cams were much easier to polish as a solid set than as individuals:
(https://gu3qgg-sn3301.files.1drv.com/y3mKXyRPQqnqGSwCq-_0OIhqqCZJc6rNpU2hr7WRkafISnCZykmVQHYDHaDh_jLJLVlZ09q4ZScshMY_5QVg1qN4qIbly5v-D0DuluBG6sDw_tYrv78KUNFh-Xcm6q9Wa26te8hwV50KJLgb4LqIgi0uqkOs2GhEpN2KPUUqhZx99U?width=800&height=600&cropmode=none)
(https://gu0uvq-sn3301.files.1drv.com/y3mJID2n0dntodBam_dON3_KeoTF0yf5LxyMmcfahjvasJpO8d0Ejt6K9bq9rUHoi8DP8fWMrbPzmVcTwpycCu5L5D27UV6U75HDmAIAsTCtlQ7X2YXnSYZDamK1xqVM-LfifISz-CMXgvx15RvtMPAT_nGwImlraa1qr6470RlhvA?width=800&height=600&cropmode=none)

Each cam was then faced to length on a taper mandrel:
(https://uquqgq-sn3301.files.1drv.com/y3mevQu2MzInlKZm0lk5aKmggmWJQiY6GdsJ-5dAe7FSdzT8tkJbindiVLvLriyD4h8xm-QGcqPEZ4xy4SUvwauLfUo6P28U4IAc04U_bFiEFy_E-p-ITpaTfusyZPmKpvBzrTxP771fupcffCiNnvc_aIN40L23qGyKD9FnBED9yI?width=800&height=600&cropmode=none)

And the final results look like:
(https://gu0gyg-sn3301.files.1drv.com/y3mpWDH5YPwlxsRWwNz9UYXv3kyN9tcG5ZwYTjFXGAPWB43FBfmXdl5UO_ltdq9gMYkb8fcYGoatZiq16B0UdUUSY47KW4oQ68_OribcNrP1L_iF-SJ8-7aJKESx-Yes6MSL4X4Qr1jpBmudaSWIbg9zIuiEqiBQ1ZbTlWVQf0omvs?width=800&height=600&cropmode=none)

A bit of tweaking of lengths and “selective assembly” in the block made it important to keep track of which cam was which during hardening, cleaning and final assembly:
(https://tzbijq-sn3301.files.1drv.com/y3mZNMlHS37JpzFpjfOoGdx9J60bFExjdpUQ6DJCSqsC87b5ngiwBEGtTqpIy3lbF-Orn4Wf9pQuG9MgM2ZDb34yeN0DDDl1235YlLtzZZwurVZX7de6k2aAGrCgZSJF5HifjcqvUwqABEGoCgL2pzHqWhO7-qlgu0hBV2A5iGjO7A?width=800&height=600&cropmode=none)

To assemble the cams on the shaft core I followed the method described by Mick Knights in his “The Mastiff Plus” series in Model Engineer (Parts 8 and 9 in #4521 and #4523). This needs a guide pin machined to fit the cam noses:
(https://tzbp1a-sn3301.files.1drv.com/y3mQIhimU23-XlhuyAQ9u9SJP2CigQH2Bl6vb8Q-y5PuVyVd95UFtNYfihAI5u76uqgj0fu7wAIHlXFmOo6jwlvi--mggVIWN6JsCPp6c1MZiFCJdpbdjPZapWa5lj2m29IOlibgZfUM4osy7gc6pZzCHzpm2H5CQVIQSjOKp8bGW4?width=800&height=600&cropmode=none)

And centred over the core mounted in the dividing head:
(https://tzzoya-sn3301.files.1drv.com/y3m3yN59Y2hUE9T1GmoO3XUNqthlythcGKd4gtX_VWkJ7xlBC6iu2UYnRhopwFf1GWwXH9mQmoom3GQZrFb-bBtBRPu9dz5mQRYAwFElS88hH_OQhEwyLwLklhcPsJNggTxAgax_iXfLkyU4mj8nEF84K5mwjVN804YHaBvO0rbQMQ?width=800&height=600&cropmode=none)

Then slid along the core at the correct (I sincerely hope!) angular location with some Loctite 638 on the core:
(https://tzz9ag-sn3301.files.1drv.com/y3mjUy4qpJvLoDZWV7qEDB0-NIm90IDUB047zr7ZJEixt8YydWbi0faeiLtNCiLfEaBW3AHqz8_LQRZwDbx98bQMzOYIneL9BOnV2SH7oHvngkLUtUaPt68exC28msA0oVTk5zF7oMYXZ2iZGSdTz-K8WaJoDfNVb0KaQl1WbA3tUs?width=800&height=600&cropmode=none)

With the bearing journals added the final product looked like:
(https://tzyydw-sn3301.files.1drv.com/y3m_pawYA3s1cWLdCkuoOogq1fRCP2MoszBtP7WpIYE03vpLcaJpLprZQu9idHmpvl74xcLhs0lVaUviHjPCVhSce_RUlhByaehiev1JgkqCfRjIl_RASosWSz201hN1WTUNaVayoattNXNlLwS9PecFUIRo5-UlcFTOnAhRxHZ-2I?width=800&height=600&cropmode=none)

In the block it looks good!
(https://tzaz6w-sn3301.files.1drv.com/y3mtLfffquSwj8B27UpxORvN3suRZGIR1GYomDiKjB3IZ3QOVEJjOgex9NA51esGDzWxEdStdn5zSMIpUyMPFf3Vh6QdUzM7sVCbP3N-kIzK7sCJTMy3gwiTGzmFL2p8WoUxqqfRGi6SJjb9P6m831XZgUXC-_GzeddlCX8Tk86uvM?width=800&height=600&cropmode=none)

Phew! That took longer than I thought…
It is also going to be a long wait before I find out if the cam angles are correct but for now I’ll move on to finishing the timing end gearing, oil pump etc.
DT
Title: Re: Len Mason's "Mastiff" - chewed from the solid
Post by: PJPickard on February 11, 2017, 02:22:14 AM
Just want to say I'm following along here...I have it in my my to do the same build eventually. Nice work you are doing!
Title: Re: Len Mason's "Mastiff" - chewed from the solid
Post by: Nick_G on February 11, 2017, 07:22:47 AM
.
That was very informative and well presented documentation.

Many thanks for the time and effort you took demonstrating the above so that others can benefit.

Nick
Title: Re: Len Mason's "Mastiff" - chewed from the solid
Post by: Dave Otto on February 12, 2017, 12:57:41 AM
Interesting way to assemble a cam from parts.

I always enjoy seeing progress on your engine DT.



Dave
Title: Re: Len Mason's "Mastiff" - chewed from the solid
Post by: Flyboy Jim on February 12, 2017, 04:27:06 AM
Great explanation of the process of the making of these cams, DT. But now, it begs the question: How the heck did you line all these pieces up to get them at the correct angle?

Jim
Title: Re: Len Mason's "Mastiff" - chewed from the solid
Post by: deltatango on February 12, 2017, 04:45:36 AM
PJP, Dave and Nick - thanks for the positive comments and the encouragement.

Len Mason suggested the cam assembly method in his original Mastiff book but he used a complicated jig to get things in the right place.

I have a book by Arthur Rubbra on the development of Rolls-Royce aero engines with which he was involved. On one occasion they couldn't get a new prototype engine to run on the test-bed and found that the crankshaft had been designed for one firing order and the camshafts for another (even RR can make SNAFUs!). He writes: "However, the experimental shop night shift soon had us running properly by slicing up the hollow camshafts into six pieces and pinning them to a central shaft in the correct firing order." If its good enough for RR...

DT
Title: Re: Len Mason's "Mastiff" - chewed from the solid
Post by: deltatango on February 12, 2017, 05:38:30 AM
Jim,
The short answer is that Len Mason provided a diagram of the angular positions in his book on "Building Mastiff" and I followed this very carefully:

(https://tza6mg.dm2302.livefilestore.com/y3mNCDMQLM-SWoil-S78jnwU-HkUAqBEgjMhqQxWThrlaRiOXnyIrU8snzJKshl5i2K-2pEWUSBxf6vUt7WjBcPVO5bdG1hRlo2rhhYKMrtFmb1mTvE5nRkAQBVgz9ddgCTI3v4DPZKyXoSSvkWqBEg2yUvkAx7d9DXVa0ICrUFAYo?width=513&height=600&cropmode=none)

The original diagram was about 2" by 2 1/2" and the reproduction not very good so I scanned it and printed it A4. The generally poor to very poor reproduction of the drawings in the book was one of the reasons I re-drew the whole engine in Geomagic Design. Having the 3D CAD meant I could produce my own drawings and pictures as checks (.pdf s attached).  Moving each cam to the correct angle in turn required the dividing head to be turned backwards or forwards by various angles and I worked out these angles and wrote a list of the moves needed. The last picture in the post looks enough like Fig 15 on p87 of the book to be reassuring.

The essential design info needed to work out the angles for yourself is that the camshaft turns anticlockwise looked at from the timing end, on each cylinder the cam nose centrelines are 110 degrees apart with the exhaust leading. The firing order is 1,2,4,3.

Thanks for the interest!

Dt
Title: Re: Len Mason's "Mastiff" - chewed from the solid
Post by: Flyboy Jim on February 12, 2017, 02:27:09 PM
Thanks for the explanation and drawings, Dt. That's amazing work you're doing!

Jim
Title: Re: Len Mason's "Mastiff" - chewed from the solid
Post by: Doc on February 12, 2017, 03:02:44 PM
Looking good that cam looks really nice!!
Title: Re: Len Mason's "Mastiff" - chewed from the solid
Post by: Roger B on February 14, 2017, 11:34:16 AM
Nice work on the cams  :praise2:  :praise2: I used 6° steps when cutting mine with a 60 tooth gear as the dividing plate. I would certainly be interested in you updated cam calculator when you feel it is ready to be released  :)  :wine1:
Title: Re: Len Mason's "Mastiff" - chewed from the solid
Post by: 90LX_Notch on February 14, 2017, 04:48:19 PM
Nicely done and an informative write as well DT.

-Bob
Title: Re: Len Mason's "Mastiff" - chewed from the solid
Post by: deltatango on March 18, 2017, 06:44:22 AM
With the camshaft and crankshaft completed the timing case and its contents can be completed. To make sure of getting the auxiliary drive gears spaced correctly the oil pump has to be available. In the original design this is a gunmetal casting, in the spirit of carving metal mine was made from part of a scrap dental flask clamp. My late father-in-law was a country dentist and kept his own dental lab gear for when there wasn't time to send work into the nearest town. The flasks and clamps were used as part of the kit for making acrylic dentures and are made from bronze. I scrounged these when we cleared out his practice and have used them ever since as a source of semi-precious metal. I first cut a slab for the pump cover (15/16" x 5/8" x 18"), finished it on one face and superglued it back on to the scrap to finish the other side:

(https://7vkdfw-sn3301.files.1drv.com/y3mBUbvNETN6iWbROFovKb1dn8T54WeRwOUTEx5C8PnuqXQozEj6olYUNQ99QQdECLv2U9ZwrQP1K7onQhm5SBjCjtvmIYe7LcXJGNi6vaqG7eNrNbreVkqGN0ynC2mZcKvQdIxxB_3iad-HQzd_j0t6b9Q5BB_jDxbns0ytkL6d2c?width=800&height=600&cropmode=none)

Then trimmed the sides of the block with an end mill to create the blank pump body:

(https://81kdfw-sn3301.files.1drv.com/y3mjGjK5OZms8Bq4zLdSbpilOaIvsUcPOGO54huKXwfkJ-neCxGfE4PbevW4Cg_-A0shg2M_zVsM06vAyv9uGdo6Gm9SQ3HHd5z7EoQ3U0PJSx1aYUBjKCKrTsAMldLZ090lpvYxhq9O0vpxuf27TGKM7u9nizbIOWotJCNTPBkubE?width=800&height=600&cropmode=none)

Which was then cut off and finished all round:

(https://7lkdfw-sn3301.files.1drv.com/y3mTbVDbqifEuLQol55P87JDn_Cg6fljRkiVyCTCldd3m_uHNHzYs_M1SeDiuJQcjYtfANSTI2fCsOT4eM3iwdrTldLTv-rrFoespBW5oaPucicf6dsDmNCxbhdnwaGHV1Za8ojPcFEJSviW1ocSMgSB1qpzK4P8cYvAWgfIKOsL9I?width=800&height=600&cropmode=none)

This looked so good that I felt like keeping it intact as a piece of jewellery but common sense prevailed and I drilled the mounting holes through both pieces; the superglue bond broke , for once, at just the right time. I then bored the 3/8" hole for one gear, plugged that with brass and drilled and D-bitted out the other:

(https://9fkdfw-sn3301.files.1drv.com/y3m-HER7HykqrCfDrlRfUQ9MhFtb2nH6EyKUAJWxBPam1JZ9yfcgYMNNEXovvmJXol1zbjfrGl7qHJjAkXlH7BTbbP26XHRyQLjsZuAXnFYEcHQO6y9cdUBvFdvN4SHh8uBwN0gkfKKZtoD7L5SiGxYyJrTEgYqFBclIhBIIQbnu_A?width=800&height=600&cropmode=none)

The other bits needed for the fabrication were simple turning and threading tasks and the gears came from Hemingway Kits. The drive shaft is from FCMS and has a flat at the top to engage with a matching flat on the shaft that will drive the contact breaker:

(https://7bjloa-sn3301.files.1drv.com/y3mMwd7weRTZlNBymHWSr2zZpOu_ES_j7Y887iuSTGyqbBu5kGrfOKJy4p2s4ztudX1Bekz-2tvOS1PaURqRg8QpOvQ02Qeoi9EC7vlhjQ7TPYJ3BJLUI7U6mymCKDENVHYowTvb7WALkN2cIFYL-yl2v0x8liyo7Xx3Ao3IUvXhAE?width=800&height=600&cropmode=none)

In the Mastiff book Len Mason suggests leaving the shaping of the outline of the cover until the rest of the pump is finished. This is a good idea - shaping the two parts together, as I did, results in a lovely match between the two but then you have to locate the axle for the idler gear very, very accurately to maintain the match and the alignment of the mounting holes. Needless to say this didn't happen first time around and the hole for the axle pin had to be nudged around. I didn't take pictures - it wasn't pretty.

Assembled the insides of the pump look like:

(https://7rjloa-sn3301.files.1drv.com/y3mKzyw0F4nqOehIgyHrKy1AlxymyQcBFG06j6HxH3VIPNwoP1fhGMo3c7egPkd7iGa53CtYPFdkpYZRNhcVjY5ZNULSMJuGYMqTA-DJzSe9pueAM5NDFHu-N9zBzQ33h__Ovuj8N-cHcAiKSh6NeRA2BAjD4qYhFmrmHeo_J23q64?width=800&height=600&cropmode=none)

and the outside:

(https://8bjloa-sn3301.files.1drv.com/y3mOxY8cNxgLjs_1NYKkzkcmq9VnB5Rj2ETV2V9nFL6an3Krx0YZJh4CP4bZ4mMsdXu1I7Ewg4xXgXUyVw_Ubvr-35gjFgxn10M7_OZ9GI4UAmDbZ8_jiNfFMFx9ktJblXGWKYWBXt3pYqRFamtrTmxaHHUmoonDgcOTiD83i9ZSWo?width=800&height=600&cropmode=none)

Drilling the mounting holes into the timing case was the last act:

(https://6xjloa-sn3301.files.1drv.com/y3mQCu1m7WZOHMubqrjesjZZ0kgRksZhOjGELl_V_Ltkv1r3LN-jpaDLNLrOrnsyBkoFrs_HzE1f3opnYf_-HlTJMEYUf3Ps6fmKBZcB9XjRQG8rc5V-Ft-gB6RXWV_TwApId6f_UD5_kjeEzRj5oYOrfxhLBbT5R9HdoXEHiq0yRM?width=450&height=600&cropmode=none)

And I could move on to mounting and securing the timing case after making and fitting the camshaft drive gears.

DT
Title: Re: Len Mason's "Mastiff" - chewed from the solid
Post by: steamer on March 18, 2017, 11:31:32 AM
Little gear type pumps are challenging!    getting the centerlines right for mesh and then the mear wisp of clearance on the OD...is tough.

Looks like you nailed it!



Dave
Title: Re: Len Mason's "Mastiff" - chewed from the solid
Post by: deltatango on March 20, 2017, 02:45:14 AM
Thanks Dave,
Like the rest of the engine I won't know how well the oil pump works until I can test it for real. Len Mason suggests that it pumps far more oil than Mastiff needs so there should be a bit to spare.
The clearance between the gears and the casing is more than I would have liked, had to trim the gears to get them to run concentrically. The two helical gears that came from Hemingway are very well finished and run well, the rest of the gears supplied were not so good. See the next post...

David T
Title: Re: Len Mason's "Mastiff" - chewed from the solid
Post by: deltatango on March 20, 2017, 03:47:50 AM
The last bits needed in the timing case were the timing gears and their associated nuts and washers. This looked straight forward but turned into a bit of a catalogue of disasters.
Two 40DP gears, 35 to drive 70 teeth, were supplied by Hemingway but (in contrast to the helicals also supplied) were a bit rough in the finish. There were a lot of burrs and I had the "brilliant" idea of fitting the brass wire brush to the off-hand grinder and running the gears under it. I now know that brass at that speed is almost as hard as whatever the gears were made from, the burrs disappeared alright but so did all the edges on the teeth (and worse, see later).  I machined the soft jaws to fit each gear in turn and bored the mounting holes to really good fits on the crank shaft and the mounting centre for the camshaft. The other thing I had actually got close to correct was the centre distance between the shafts (+0.002", just enough to guarantee clearance, I thought)  but it wasn't to be. When I fitted the gears they would bind up tight in several places and weren't free running anywhere - I'd wire brushed them eccentric and I have to think they must have been a bit over size to start with.

I messed around making slightly eccentric bushes but couldn't fix the problem that way and finally bit the bullet and ordered the necessary 40DP gear cutters from the UK (RDG Tools). RDG sent them off very promptly, tracking showed the UK courier got them to Oz in 4 days (great! I thought); it then took me 3 stressful weeks to extract them from the grasp of an utterly incompetent local courier company.

With the cutters finally to hand I machined up some blanks (and spares):
(https://8lkdfw-sn3301.files.1drv.com/y3mm3KQ8ZxltrVl4G79D3Q-VBolZrJ5ukLwtjRcY9-o3bwA5Jq7oMzn9CqRDYbr7AStHMmv1JW1lFGtuAEphc0kJFsIIllA5vhnLqw8PAvjeAWtKEPwyJVP7HGs6kBbbOB47tm-O6xwF9zunJP72VFTYicAQsV4ZYqEPa8JZGpEab8?width=450&height=600&cropmode=none)
(https://pfkdfw-sn3301.files.1drv.com/y3mhmYg32Hbvmzj-I2CFf_Dm_H2WnxgE4hTXIkdTtmvR25s5wY22MSO8fdddDIBaTayJpOcHCKdZXCKVBBF0dU_mJKTPc6thPScj8scUGsrmr8hFBzuDVkn2CUtLz2S7gRu4bhrfthjXf1jThD6vee8VMk7Vjh1vm5-TvqMOyFnQag?width=800&height=600&cropmode=none)

and cut my first-ever gears. First the 35 tooth:

(https://91kdfw-sn3301.files.1drv.com/y3m1mB2tNLinpQcsJKUHdYWOfjtvAXioNGHOzlOuJYLjWQBuosdQ5r_NXwI4UWFCbLHoEjhjD57EPu50WNEnna4igvp1EbW6bNfigY52eQ0Dxige9NwcdO9C0wEsq2o6Rhkd7Yj_JclRY6Vp--C1mQnt-dIl46SuDPJ_wqT21l9wAc?width=800&height=600&cropmode=none)

and then the 70. I didn't use cutting oil with this one and the finish was pretty much the same as the other:

(https://5xjloa-sn3301.files.1drv.com/y3mS7A-aqNtCOjS9sU7ZTCIndK-u8g6VRYC8hwInRLnSGV1XUBusHjtdbyaquiVHR8ftyOOe3_G1UpkYDjIo-HTVGK9sUVN9v-8pVkMWzp0sRbaAkRL3NjLM2f6VhtwF5OdHbbw8b2hzQo_rEQ-QElhTQwU-j58Nz8a_25BYOYAjg0?width=800&height=600&cropmode=none)

I light of the previous experience with binding I over cut the tooth depth (0.056" rather than 0.054") but I should have had confidence in my measurements as the end result was more clearance then necessary:

(https://6bjloa-sn3301.files.1drv.com/y3mYRHt5wGpr8XQBQT4j-XFXhOQc6fijERGYvtTJoYzF0U-IR1POrqZbcb8lxGBhOuv4UYhS5oZaxMNxd9bejT044MOHTSDIh5ci3hrf1kOGIuBNAkeHhYcfviWeLu01iTD52P6Ixw-SNLojsN16ZRfyxZIpmcf0K3XQufdnA0RUtc?width=450&height=600&cropmode=none)

If these prove too noisy, or wear too fast in use, I can always make a new set.

The camshaft gear and its mounting sleeve are designed to provide some "Vernier"adjustment of the valve timing with four holes in the mounting at 90 degrees and four in the gear at 91.2. the holes in the gear are tapped M3 and a single CS screw goes in whichever hole gives the best timing. To make the drilling and tapping easier I spent a few hours making an ER32 chuck with a MT2 mandrel to fit the centre hole in the rotary table:

(https://7biarq-sn3301.files.1drv.com/y3mHFdXVDT6BMZaWeCS0nnUBNDQvKS3d7NHAkJqF-r226kpnVI51Yb3WsD6q8KG2G-2FODMEMqOl8GrBVkJYja5a0kGK9oJ4F10BB1x7RZV1xz0nVwLSwuiLDg537yyRDN7gq91ulxwXrxIIB2dz5kT4pj0IFtGvB1lwKJiNzVxt9o?width=450&height=600&cropmode=none)

The last act was to fit the timing case to the cylinder block, check the meshing of the auxiliary drive gears, and drill and tap for the screws. The final result:

(https://7riarq-sn3301.files.1drv.com/y3m7zI4nCWw37ADObwJqcKCRcJRw32Iab0zzv7ApIaQvBqwBGH9B-UuLUL_ajPBNrTu723tcUzKVcqUnuRuHaKAphtGvW5lns7PbyZk8TlpZMFZBtkkC9rcLr9-KdoM0V-nhyiGMxdmFh7Br_nRs4FBBkXXO5D1djZLCDLSDcDolCs?width=450&height=600&cropmode=none)

Everything runs smoothly, if a bit too freely. Maybe the most difficult bits of Mastiff are now behind me?? Anyway I can now go back to carving Ali billets for the cylinder blocks and heads and Mastiff will start to fill out and look more like an engine.

DT
Title: Re: Len Mason's "Mastiff" - chewed from the solid
Post by: steamer on March 20, 2017, 10:05:47 AM
Nicely done!    That'll work fine I'm sure!


Dave
Title: Re: Len Mason's "Mastiff" - chewed from the solid
Post by: ozzie46 on March 21, 2017, 03:15:03 PM
Hope you don't mind but here is a video of my Mastiff running.  I changed the distibutor to the top because Oil was getting into the dizzy cap.

(http://i661.photobucket.com/albums/uu334/ozzie46/th_VID_20170304_130931.mp4) (http://i661.photobucket.com/albums/uu334/ozzie46/VID_20170304_130931.mp4)

 I had to rebuild the engine . I didn't leave enough clearance for an oil film on the rod journals and ended up having to remake the crankshaft and new rods as a rod started knocking.

Ron
Title: Re: Len Mason's "Mastiff" - chewed from the solid
Post by: zeeprogrammer on March 21, 2017, 09:24:50 PM
I've been following along and enjoying.

Thanks Ron for the video. I didn't know what a Mastiff was so now the build will be even more enjoyable.
Title: Re: Len Mason's "Mastiff" - chewed from the solid
Post by: deltatango on March 21, 2017, 10:32:47 PM
Ron, thanks for the video of your Mastiff running - I certainly don't mind seeing it hear, its good to see and hear one actually running.

I've looked at the distributor location myself and thought that the conventional (and less oily) place would be on top of the contact breaker. However, right now I plan to build the engine more or less as drawn then look at fitting electronic ignition, maybe a pair of double-ended coils and a waste spark system (we've owned a bunch of Subarus over the years and it works for them...). Thanks for the hint re the big end clearances - I've made the crank but not the rods so I can take care when I get to them. What range of RPM does your Mastiff manage?

Carl, glad to know that you are following along.

David T
Title: Re: Len Mason's "Mastiff" - chewed from the solid
Post by: ozzie46 on March 21, 2017, 10:53:21 PM
I haven't had a tach on it but it will rev up pretty good once it warms up.
I have a hall effect ignition on it. I built the circuit that was on HMEM a while back by" jgedde" and "dsage", 2 or 3 years ago I think, I used a coil off of a junked out motorcycle and made my own spark plugs with corian for the insulator. They are 1/4-32 thread. Also I used 2024 aluminum on the second set of rods.

 Ron
Title: Re: Len Mason's "Mastiff" - chewed from the solid
Post by: ozzie46 on March 22, 2017, 07:03:51 PM
Put a tach on the Mastiff today and got a reliable idle at 1000 to 1200 rpm. It has a nice "bloop bloop" sound I really like at that rpm.  It will rev up to about 4500 rpm. I'm afraid to go any higher.
 The tach is a Shimpo Laser tach. It will read by laser or direct contact.

 I may be able to get a little lower idle rpm if I tweak the carb some more.

 Ron
Title: Re: Len Mason's "Mastiff" - chewed from the solid
Post by: 90LX_Notch on March 22, 2017, 08:00:57 PM
Still following along David and enjoying this build very much.

-Bob
Title: Re: Len Mason's "Mastiff" - chewed from the solid
Post by: deltatango on March 24, 2017, 10:07:09 PM
Many thanks for the info Ron, I can't see myself wanting Mastiff to rev over 4500 but a slower idle would be good, have to wait to see what happens.

Hemingway supplies spark plug kits that use a ceramic bead for the insulator, Corian would be a good alternative. I've bought in a 1/4 x 32 UNEF (AKA UNSpecial) tap and a die, hope this is the right one. The "1/4x32" is often quoted for the plug thread but I've not seen the thread form actually specified; 1/4 x 32 ME is a Whitworth form and common on UK-designed projects.

Bob, I'm pleased you are following, hope to make some more progress soon. Right now we have UK visitors staying and, just to keep things interesting, we are about to drive 5 hours into the mountains for our niece's wedding, back on Monday. I'm still not quite sure why she wanted to be married on a mountain top at 1800m altitude...

DT
Title: Re: Len Mason's "Mastiff" - chewed from the solid
Post by: MJM460 on March 25, 2017, 02:05:22 AM
Hi DT,

I hope that by the time you return, you will understand your nieces choice a little more.  You can be sure that only much loved relatives and closest friends are invited to such a location.  You are one of the  privileged few.

  Five hours, eh?  Perhaps Falls Creek or Hotham?  My gues is that she would have preferred it a little colder than likely at this time of year, but then it would be really hard to convince some of the much wanted guests to attend.

MJM460
Title: Re: Len Mason's "Mastiff" - chewed from the solid
Post by: deltatango on March 28, 2017, 10:24:03 PM
Hi MJM460,
It was Mt Hotham and the weather held off long enough for a really beautiful outdoor, mountain top, ceremony. Not something anyone wanted to try much later in the year (I don't think there are any skiers in the family, certainly not among the older generation).
DT
Title: Re: Len Mason's "Mastiff" - chewed from the solid
Post by: Roger B on April 04, 2017, 06:47:51 PM
Still following along in the background  :ThumbsUp:  :ThumbsUp:  :wine1:

I used a 1/4 - 32 plug (from Just Engines in the UK) in my vertical engine. I purchased a tap from the local ME supplier which I guess is ME / Whitworth profile. I never checked, but it seems to fit together  ::)
Title: Re: Len Mason's "Mastiff" - chewed from the solid
Post by: Jasonb on April 04, 2017, 07:17:43 PM
Yes 1/4 x 32 UNEF is the one you want for plugs
Title: Re: Len Mason's "Mastiff" - chewed from the solid
Post by: Art K on April 05, 2017, 03:40:24 AM
DT,
I have used some Whitworth on stuff at work. I think the size refers to the wrench size and not the actual thread size. For example the one that is basically a US 5/16- 24 thread is a 1/2 Whitworth wrench. Go figure. :thinking: :headscratch:
Art
Title: Re: Len Mason's "Mastiff" - chewed from the solid
Post by: deltatango on May 15, 2017, 05:18:05 AM
Thanks Jason, Its good to have the plug threadform cleared up properly. I'll use the 1/4x32 UNEF tap for the plug threads then it is correct for commercial plugs if those prove necessary. The matching die is marked UNS I'm guessing this is UN Special but as long as it matches the tap then that's OK.

1/4x32ME would probably work as long as the fit isn't too close.

Now back to carving Al blocks - Six in total, cylinder block, head and head cover. The cover and head will be glued together to form a single unit when the coolant space has been machined in the outer surface of the head. Len Mason suggests Araldite for this, I'm tempted to use JB Weld when the time comes; if the Forum has advice/experience it would be good to hear it. Thanks.

I started with squaring up the cylinder block blanks to the "envelope" dimensions using the high speed head on the Aciera F3 for the first time:

(https://8bkbiq-sn3301.files.1drv.com/y4m1X30H8rfV0rI44AD0IrjaobP-8phX0jB-1_YIEKEAIrRi3i8q_bmT8zHlDp3xV0Qe1JN84RrMdzJA8_t_WZl5jRU4-Wp4MKPn5z36Q4I6KPubcOeRNhB0xhuqnucOywXtke3cHYaQgQsbZgCqDzvc8waTq_Blh5a0yEE02o8AO4GmVSSHizehWktmFfhyDMKd3UZIGdnq6_mlWUhIKRgRg?width=800&height=600&cropmode=none)

but found that the HS head spindle was, very slightly, tilted towards me in the YZ plane and the face cutter was leaving shallow ridges in the work. This should not be possible and I haven't yet plucked up the courage to strip the whole head down to find the problem. I'm guessing (hoping?) that the spindle is not fitted correctly but there may be burrs or dirt in one or two surfaces. Anyway I changed to the standard vertical head and a 16 mm cutter for the rest of the pieces:

(https://6xi2lg-sn3301.files.1drv.com/y4m_D02UmDwUudb6CCGKoJ2r8TYXTY9Dz7CfPFStWA-jub2AWw27ztXXHWgNDsKT1upSl4gnTmJYx8yrkcSqxh1f4yDmX9wyGbsa8l9nKkPZEbcNJXp9bQO5LzFdvQi9idEKR31VIGj-1J37knbFdKACUl9fyBWXLrvD_wbwV5UU8HbyFMHpz_BpyA8TDpoqu9Gr3wVzhVHmPqmqEGlGPWYow?width=800&height=600&cropmode=none)

(https://6bi2lg-sn3301.files.1drv.com/y4mYNHn0D6LD_s94XB-SDWpOZDLVDvjPKFr8Z6iwqykofJT1wd1oHEYi3Q0_zCAV8HXOGqFws4rUkQDWYC0z6CiKr6DknVJ_9pCUvL_qY6qfGz11kidLw9jh40M1xKkaEw-UCUcUHri6swv-874KjZ8XNZtZXuQJ071qCbbwTn50Z75iYJZA5G05zCvY8dVEwHrw53Yt_DaJM4g4KLTc1zBaA?width=800&height=600&cropmode=none)

I'm also going to make the low profile clamps described in the current MEW before doing any more work on thin pieces. There weren't any disasters but I did add an extra downward clamp later in the work:

(https://5xi2lg-sn3301.files.1drv.com/y4m6z9Bug0Vu3j-f5dXiet_8UkMtSVPeKt47dD2B_XSm-fXoZvpG3mrCuNYwbTu1mlX8yCtuyzNZf3A9YqtMtYobvZZLDO61JLTGkTbGLclC2dzBxMkoNo_r1BHkc70VQmLGesEu12BUNe9teebZfcQbXyCv0hfV_qZXBzBaR_BS6ZOyJjP_UhXGT0uRFbgKwmvk1d9KerdEr1EcLlhxdRLcg?width=800&height=600&cropmode=none)

The end point of this stage was six blocks ready for a lot of the metal to be turned into swarf:

(https://8rkbiq-sn3301.files.1drv.com/y4mYn6J8e73pkvijuKWab5LHAusK8qRucJ3C6yK3SnpDdseuPSg6zEa5-_jCLCdxShy0NmNa7Cl-_XUI7wmQXHd6Y8fFhx6QH0425PhbZvZeckubbKCSOUSMu9EttFXBhI1enklXkbn8rVPpd1YjMdO2edecqqiR-RDyN2cktVYgiR93KTWbV8DL3_4f8tV60zAQzZgCo5pJW8OH4429ecl5w?width=800&height=600&cropmode=none)

and starting with the coolant entry and flanges on the blocks:

(https://6ri2lg-sn3301.files.1drv.com/y4meqqWlJKmElgfCJ0SNt_GVXB0VPn-OLiqF6iTUh1ke350ceAnfDiiFbLd2O4VGiZ9ZwMP-zwWmTbtwSvxH4cn2oz7Ss7kwxjVFr2VHAHGHv3ZImANBJle_QeoXwlSJWR7fQ3da8-hqUf9k3PTeGo-LmP-cSpgNFIrkWqakgbBMHW7sO3sIyP0jrfAVWAFD1B0VgeOjossgqIqZMo9ElLo0A?width=450&height=600&cropmode=none)

and the outlets on the heads:

(https://6hkbiq-sn3301.files.1drv.com/y4mFmOpepN5YTVRo_gn_Hok03trek4rI8f9ECEOU5im9H6F1wBnz87DlbIGLRfQ8ENAb0I3KTIXHZagNwAEQdmrRXGpb0nhOGxAoaNpVH2eqjHVv_PX9mpkcKqEdJEXOEUvR8mS3Y5xtHcWDzzs1QmAoRhIgK6AForuoH1joKb61nIDTDNvqH2jo6ap_ZwZyhbYgMFeBQHjka7Av4Co5Oq_Ww?width=450&height=600&cropmode=none)

After that the three parts were stacked up in a nest with the 9 fixing holes (I'm using M3.5 cap screws for the heads) and the two spark plug holes marked out. I don't have a DRO so finding the centres used a needle, and the fixing holes were drilled through into the block tapping size and opened out to clearance size through the cover and head:

(https://8ri2lg-sn3301.files.1drv.com/y4msw1Sva3auMm84Ps5ozbfHh26LFMc-QjZzevIzjK2lYRJ8xgyILguHlMefL3vBDFvE5jTMbHMWmn2GpwUgZc4pA7DZhuuoxmlGuoQqx2ZyN1eiDZXvYVM1oQNtrCTGvlf8E4ounhRF2ZxB4MGRu6Avg1Lty1Vu54-7QUMDkD2QBDlSk4Q2f7zB0Bn-6lEccDWjSHv4YHEm5LIQgVMmcBvAw?width=800&height=600&cropmode=none)

The plug holes drilled and counter bored:

(https://6hi2lg-sn3301.files.1drv.com/y4mAQPyXBL5D6Q3Gy-tkVxzIa1On1Wy3KtnQIQ-RzGWPbSABo7s-pt9vA_xJ4fzQPlldKUCRAS1fhLdlGI1aZ5xrQNQ8o3HFQE4PqQJ7cycUWmbwoy0iAQy0GwcvuFUBK35xwpIM0wCXjM0_BnGJtyoCNKiga2LOOkl6p--AIk2L6RQnC_Ya-E8rV1BYxLar-bK3pt4PntEikHWpWuPo1UkGg?width=800&height=600&cropmode=none)

The covers were removed, the fixing holes in the head tapped M3.5 and the coolant passages marked out on the heads. These were fixed to the head with cap screws and the pack clamped back into the nest to drill the holes:

(https://5hi2lg-sn3301.files.1drv.com/y4mZLPujfdQgWxQ1kUXRbpwZg1PuvS8VnEgNVDbe9kNFOidvqIH6EhFMIEHmhyLwyW_-f7oqM4NYGn1awKaSW0AXy_XL9wzPb3CuqJ9pbBZOTIVfdXN4CqNdY_DAhe8GwMsBBCnlB4nHPdFb5L_K0_ZJxueFM5kfQphyke4S0dnhs0Hx_8TNT6GU-9Vq4c1jVk0wSw4_Fh7kRrjO8JtyWwLCw?width=800&height=600&cropmode=none)

After drilling and tapping the remaining coolant passage holes in the sides of the blocks and heads I now have two sets of holy pieces of Al alloy:

(https://7bi2lg-sn3301.files.1drv.com/y4msSCHQhjkBPF0OPCqHcKknJFRKcZ31mEjFWuZMj0G6xaShLB30neplMRxjTrq11hi2p3ZCsp7GD0aun070TgVIn0fPLkQWqqUIjaFwnjogR6Tpcy9PwHB2NQdRR_dV9B7zZbKsxgj_ggF-lxL7n0cILjPwlG09FX_ZjZnsTC1N_zO7edkP1PlK1O0os63NxwYuBzj_yYwyBa9PIQ8f-8HRw?width=800&height=600&cropmode=none)

The cover plates are complete apart from cleaning up but the heads and cylinder blocks have a lot of complicated detail to be carved into them. I'll be taking this carefully!

Regards, DT
Title: Re: Len Mason's "Mastiff" - chewed from the solid
Post by: ozzie46 on May 15, 2017, 12:22:25 PM
I used JB Weld on my Mastiff and it has held up extremely well. In fact the whole crank case is held together with JB Weld and screws.

Ron
Title: Re: Len Mason's "Mastiff" - chewed from the solid
Post by: deltatango on May 15, 2017, 12:33:18 PM
Thanks Ron, that sounds like a big vote for JB Weld.
DT
Title: Re: Len Mason's "Mastiff" - chewed from the solid
Post by: deltatango on June 11, 2017, 01:42:10 PM
The cylinder blocks now need the cylinders boring into them and these need to be precisely positioned so that when the liners are fitted they can act as spigots to locate the blocks onto the crankcase. In an earlier reply to a post another member reminded me of the use of "buttons" for precise location of holes (that was for the spacing of the crank- and camshafts) and I read up on this now. I didn't know it at the time but one button had been made already as a gauge for the holes in the crankcase sides so a second one was turned from MS bar. I'm a convert to tangential tooling and for close-tolerance work this is hard to beat for the quality of finish and the ability to remove very small amounts of metal:

(https://vp4paa-sn3301.files.1drv.com/y4m9hlQMa5t2oCPnlbEcr8xENFFAxgFwOfy1CapxXzCIH5jNYa4BT75fLGs4SJjwFi8rmCxhYZ6c-cAOQnYava5dO5fWI95gCkX6MrR826zRTLZQhD9L_pzKclwC5_kzapKoX6YAvU-XDnhBRC_sPeBsMtJVBUxiRSGn23a5omOUcSoq_dfJV-BAR-Z1h8DMAvi-kbBEmP9QO2SSPxyE1MXnA?width=800&height=600&cropmode=none)

Both faces of the blocks were blued and the bore centres scribed in. The blocks were then located on the crankcase by two edges and a circle scribed through from the inside to show where the hole would emerge. The blocks were set up in the four-jaw chuck with one centre running true. The roughly scribed circle on the other face was used to check that drills and boring tools would miss the chuck jaws as they came through:

(https://tp7e3a-sn3301.files.1drv.com/y4mtb1v0_JXCmVPpEd4byWmjHYkNg_tbCiNFYZB-VVzt3qqUyPUpx0Jo5CEcAVBDieeAH4lR5NmQ57GEjST3dXvoHxxs2IjGDWRwbkPlKNkMW2xIw7UByf443OH41148wxiesOqRvDL3zyTXbTksAD560CB5EZZwQ04wdKvtgVlBfRSAImbLZ2LDk38GkfTNNZ6OdyMa2T1tk59PuO6NhIrxA?width=800&height=600&cropmode=none)
(https://vz4paa-sn3301.files.1drv.com/y4meF32ryu3KUy-WLz77V7NYzJ0HFv4PnfjFUicujX98i3Y6snvYg4hgREJD1fNBulPqds6tZdSsTCgO-nDdSFf-H9-kqp4j8IeMPNoIlcvQyEfNbvc6hAeJMfbukx-HbdHra8IsWkuRl027Ocb9pnniXxr2ZoHyV0DiO-kIcD4m3RnHH9ZdvXXmk_HjAQMj5VOF141FpBzwK8DLXIpGC-iOA?width=800&height=600&cropmode=none)

The first bore was drilled:

(https://uj7e3a-sn3301.files.1drv.com/y4m5D33XextWER8GbzuJIaZUf-1uOcIMM083Wq_z8QI8ig6kHJ7MztX1iRm0EiFupvYe-hBwycesAB8_AS2j7VxdOJ3zcwgVtMLpTm65JgjTpsqGg4l8gh3AhHe3amdJGa2pTYjOKRCvwZzs5dJdxRgxb4nAk3Gin4wKOwA1f88WhFf97Y1cstaEP6yVEUQJ9qG_5UmQKNacQltBrzwmlqjfQ?width=800&height=600&cropmode=none)

Bored to size, checked with the gauge made much earlier:

(https://tj7e3a-sn3301.files.1drv.com/y4mqAsMUhFOjfmeWxEbUGm9bj_k_wIfzfwna--xclRrIEQl3WciS6tTnlJY-ioK_oqawWUQS5DMwrNZ5YuRsPWlsHp3b7FSIDClpeVbaLJwWYt5yumgqnU8RGxkNFexolLxJuUBXwXgYo7Rdp1XLE7_RnPEQ2aLI_CFtcShq1liN1FMi9ymIyki1dHt0-MZqNEeH7mmzZjT9b2c8tQlIMudeg?width=800&height=600&cropmode=none)
(https://up7e3a-sn3301.files.1drv.com/y4mBT9IwBrP-hZ5pQ6nmScnfRwaCgov3h-B4iWIKZYqKVglHw8mpIiZFut0GfQ9lxMWiX3R76OjDtFGUwpAVbwJfrkQMt7WOJmtdo_vejy_tJj5FMaIPfX41cdWvqtr2nRL93hMoZov5Q7sc_WD0cEJJo6jC6hLDSB9pIfVu2K4NHuFcQ4q1l6f9er6-papMoES2tk2bkzplfTCWXkCQxk8sQ?width=800&height=600&cropmode=none)

and the water space and recess for the liner flange turned in with a home-made internal grooving tool:

(https://t57e3a-sn3301.files.1drv.com/y4mdE-bkHg4wLcu5pCGJb8ThzToP2YaaQxlCZ_IkGrVjoEViXDsifmzA7h_fEgbcw55Kw5f2r4PEXdG9kagiFmLSFzo2oqRsreqUSyd4d5IEUxw3oXDS2lz8MGJEE7rfve1_xZpZhnrOOjJCrZRuUArdPEWzlRzVeydnW38EhrckHkLU0W9Zlrv-hUX8MR-ADb8n9v9oiV5U7G9Q0OznzECOg?width=800&height=600&cropmode=none)

Now for the tricky bit, mess this up and you start over...

A pilot hole was drilled for the second bore using the scribed center:

(https://uz7e3a-sn3301.files.1drv.com/y4m6SN5VPR7FUl1jIJyEZUdxbERqOGdZ7hXsDmgZGSKM83Z7KCRcWILFaebamMGIv5SLzPDcOilWgn2CPsWYsSlwXVRULKIxbcftOn2ZQUOdym_4cFxn5FJnWMt0eT6AVlCKAviY9Sg1wJJdvpInQjAXScdyChGMIjXUq7xEK9UJli0QVERxGa5yULKSwDWtfu3EQfo8HCX6hTO_cyQrb0ZkA?width=800&height=600&cropmode=none)

one button located in the existing bore (I'd drilled this for a screw and nut but the fit was good (!)) and the second button loosely fixed with a screw into a threaded hole in the button. The assembly was then offered up to the block and the fixed button inserted, the loose one being wiggled until it also entered its matching hole. The fixing screw was tightened and this button should now provide a precise reference for the boring:

(https://vz7e3a-sn3301.files.1drv.com/y4mIJgvhIojajPa9STrLzp9BcNOwvPdFNUg0SCCZ7br44wHbyiQwTcg8x2feLJMOMYjkhIHW3J0ZrXZkTPFGNzzIbua3t3oEWnrtj0K1IHmkFAI39ggdcSgEO5Yry0BUliCHgfVtN1HZOu7omsDAqccSKwxYoNSRDhQBlnHxyw-u3a-Vu2g2mYTBWoS0FaHyZhTGuv1X-SBytJLGicBFrD4Jg?width=800&height=600&cropmode=none)

With the block back in the four-jaw, the button was set to run true with a DTI:

(https://vp7e3a-sn3301.files.1drv.com/y4m2Jyk4aItWu6B0djnVoyIHpnT-XmczJ1jm3UTsT2edSphB4zuTQHU30dOSoymNaLFarx-qFMDjRI4mSp9BJjMspG3wmTa-NODXPDRxQTYc8KTTb42K5s9y6bcwVXEf87yY_A1pQMmHq4730uqocayiq6FGRnIavZuyHQnrW5dnVEayg-YPgbJySHhRQbR25TDJbhZnp_-m7xRm8ap667TRw?width=800&height=600&cropmode=none)

and the second bore completed. The trial fits using the buttons as spigots were very satisfying:

(https://tp5fuq-sn3301.files.1drv.com/y4mLp_jBKeYWGE1CQO8NWbA7ar8KRjI2w1AF4io_xiH82gHyV7OmHbJGS015q0ql5SlBe-hCv8dUfAXixG5dcMwHsCnhEpd-spndZYxLNGDVdQ1NXs_T8XLYJlXo-B-AQoQqm-7UiEbrjgRssOp9tzTBkfTVurgxFKp0714B74Frj5u4fEsCl72p4yNF15Ma_Pyb4fu3wVjBzEbHwPGHnPScw?width=800&height=600&cropmode=none)

Phew...

DT
Title: Re: Len Mason's "Mastiff" - chewed from the solid
Post by: deltatango on June 15, 2017, 01:14:50 PM
A lot of the cylinder block metal has to be turned into chips to find the final exterior shape. Most of this is straight-forward carving with a 12 mm slot drill:

(https://tz5fuq-sn3301.files.1drv.com/y4mmlBXaqfsirpQd8HIxAlkatBLG1ZAeagbai4RrJ5iOuwbqPhyzz-M6RHdBMdEtmG6PtGIWU6NGkpd3BxDQal2f3kM7q4WpfQ28ZxkHs94uCSIhHaxI8nBAUXqPdv5q5ibOnLfT5feIMnaw4NdAXEKW7ILPJKxOaGkTYRoiVz3vYH4ecTN7g5HoLLBhFRYGdJwyKg_Y0rTn7s_90yctTiKQw?width=800&height=600&cropmode=none)

and

(https://tj5fuq-sn3301.files.1drv.com/y4mXVT9x6d7LS6P-uvBQg1SWne9uGEFlUhhcvNnWXNzt0URtFUeEaRwklMGH7O5PzkGvLSrLxJBaqjyKpoVvmnZF7vs0UxvZa4-ATPZx7yn-fkW_YDYOy3WMYBrU6REbmMiXdrzE8FBxBi6n6UNlk3f7A-QUg4D_dCQ8rshu4twyCsughrtPUJAjFPwRFWJm5SELGYvrKcgzbhiFN-XgCiKgw?width=800&height=600&cropmode=none)

leaving us with:

(https://s55fuq-sn3301.files.1drv.com/y4mwTX0-yw6XLzWPq1WXpmKjsqswfArc5ZPDfXw-zJKaXFo5HMKVPbhmCAPTNoWSE7PsG8Rcf2JYa9qmQMdrTH4iyg5HsACV4Kz0IopBTmowJ0MIrOLIRM-v49yagEbUvEZiPZHSP0b8eE65U3jHI85jHmJ5bNa6-p1UmBSo-zB6w2OUCUdk5xaXCnCJ6AYIqQs74qw2-dkn6YgxlrBEUpchw?width=450&height=600&cropmode=none)

and the corners of the recesses have to be cleared to give the securing studs and nuts somewhere to go:

(https://t55fuq-sn3301.files.1drv.com/y4maozJHmlbXJJYcnjTl1FRkY31vu-e936-dhlpH7Vp5Nx1l01jgHG0PYOho_Odrd86YJR7F-PaVzgcZSSCPlUhbnauSw5pcJJrDPSyscj34doEFK42JLV0q2gIGglbsSetx8mE5MMTslSIFEY5_eM5ngRcoEYpWHlVLAgrW2SgW8Q0BgerOvKqG52hTJTOmPiY_cm5o-bK5-PT4yjK21aMJQ?width=800&height=600&cropmode=none)

The three stud holes were drilled in the flanges of the blocks and three "transfer punches" turned up (not hardened) to fit the 5 mm clearance holes:

(https://uz5fuq-sn3301.files.1drv.com/y4m659CajofMt4jg1UOy1140i52VGl17LJ22xqeLSQXnErsqj7PBZQUlHFSJrQ76WiNfeP6G93RE0Sr0Ks3isQbgDycawV9CcIiRWnvgG21MLVCPCnIunyj6DOljPrbJ9fMVRXvXzlwn6piADrkczSqn_Sb7y3kYB0_pQtG16_D7FojmWBijapqUQl8RRiIANLVaXTOkjrPR3r6cHNNNIXUgw?width=800&height=600&cropmode=none)

the punches were used in combination with the existing buttons to make centre pops for drilling the holes for the studs:

(https://up5fuq-sn3301.files.1drv.com/y4mkvH-h8FfMQX66IiPhc-zCnL459oUB9enYkMKvp8UwTn28zo35LsHejljyfbGseDtoAYFDP-p4HGfFg4W3zyWK-5m0BR7oq988lcexH_18Joe6vtbVgt-N_4ZpMLvTgx5_LUx3d-uALLcDgiYS_w33sgLtfU60eL4_eSLlN2RMM-LOKQlOs6HO5m7DgywWWJ0rfCxkqBOon-enrwA3Z3bXg?width=800&height=600&cropmode=none)

The studs were turned to length in an M5 threaded mandrel ready for the final assembly (which is still some way off...):

(https://uj5fuq-sn3301.files.1drv.com/y4mKfZPSEzIN4Crmgi3zvjdzzXeqkwE1FyKVM6vpawmBAMMxsuDfIFq2P7Is5m6FBG1zUadP_AZGQ2Pua9Z9KNJ-XD-b5B8R04nwjQSGLC9zPpq9CpGHci6Ioh2puXhDiw1cUO1PUQLhpU9JQbAD6In-2FhJbM7adGjIdurDaAEkn0yEvTDBKj7ObxsbvkJEAJLQRcSmJ7VxIi0HTQriD7c2g?width=800&height=600&cropmode=none)

DT

Title: Re: Len Mason's "Mastiff" - chewed from the solid
Post by: Admiral_dk on June 15, 2017, 03:54:27 PM
Looking good so far  :ThumbsUp:

Best wishes

Per
Title: Re: Len Mason's "Mastiff" - chewed from the solid
Post by: 90LX_Notch on June 15, 2017, 07:32:43 PM
Still following along David.  Some very nice setups.

-Bob
Title: Re: Len Mason's "Mastiff" - chewed from the solid
Post by: deltatango on June 15, 2017, 11:29:46 PM
Thanks Per and thanks for the comment on the set-ups Bob,

One thing that this build has definitely taught me is the truth of the advice that "time spent making tooling and jigs is never wasted". A lot of the learning has  come from reading MEM blogs.  In the past I've been too keen to get on and make "bits", now I've learned to slow down, think more, and make tooling.

David
Title: Re: Len Mason's "Mastiff" - chewed from the solid
Post by: kuhncw on June 16, 2017, 03:09:29 AM
David,

Nice work on the Mastiff and thanks for the time and effort you are putting into your build log.  There is a lot of good information in it.

You are absolutely right about jigs and fixtures.  That's the way to go.  Figuring out the fixturing is part of the fun, in my opinion.

Regards,

Chuck
Title: Re: Len Mason's "Mastiff" - chewed from the solid
Post by: Roger B on June 16, 2017, 02:27:32 PM
Good progress  :ThumbsUp:  :ThumbsUp: I like your use of alignment buttons  :)  :wine1:
Title: Re: Len Mason's "Mastiff" - chewed from the solid
Post by: deltatango on June 17, 2017, 06:20:15 AM
Thanks Roger,
It was a reply to this blog by "steamer" (Dave) that pointed me to using toolmakers buttons for aligning holes. One up for MEM.
David
Title: Re: Len Mason's "Mastiff" - chewed from the solid
Post by: deltatango on August 04, 2017, 05:50:52 AM
Just looked at the date on my last entry in this blog, it was six weeks ago. In the time I've had for the workshop I spent most of those weeks turning the cylinder head blanks into scrap. One is probably usable but much less than perfect, the other became a definite scrapper when a cutter worked its way out of the ER25 chuck and cut a neat hole from the water space through into the combustion chamber. That is the first time that has happened to me, I'll try to make sure it's the last! Two new blanks are now being cut.

The only useful work on Mastiff was to drill and ream the holes for the inserted valve seats and guides. I made a transfer punch to locate one hole on the block, marked off the other three to drawing then checked these with the punch:

(https://jvxo8g-sn3301.files.1drv.com/y4mTEd1IoJjDc0GhzQKH8htPcLOtr_9qAIRCAqw4XhabtPfyxYuG5IaLZA36KLGUCilrL4Ftv25koxLB_JvzttnOO6-pArRY4fnbVAbfnTfVZr0__uYmONmkIjOT2uvOGpyflaCqDPlWgUJ4rXfIv6UsRIc_xK64p4iFvJaKibnORALYbcbzSMhwl26lUrvQktMaCY_X8SePqkxOK5sHKuM4w?width=480&height=360&cropmode=none)

Located the centres using a needle:

(https://hqzpzg-sn3301.files.1drv.com/y4mBPdyIFJCisHeHUKmVcK8_Yq8_leaZW90L9PlcwAgxNwLXGLGK1e32-Zhm6cvWC-trIoRt9C2iIQR9R09FCd_0-CG_wrDRjV1irbRZebmW8jUcXhPGeH_4Bxt8UNvWArFW-i_YQWymtY4iEK9AkxuO67ztvybBugORos3HBZU8xI_5KolaTOTpAK2M9RS8mcur2oKmU7LCrmete_IXtt6LQ?width=480&height=360&cropmode=none)

Then spotted, drilled and reamed 8 mm:

(https://hvzpzg-sn3301.files.1drv.com/y4mWN8MbqMa33J4kmx1FOBMfxAwUr2Oc2gzIPr6sbM7id3oM14zwYvISy1RODp253wbfZG-40sbACSLkHlszqxyGsf-lydFy0CXIJJYPq2-lGgSKif1InUY3Rv4YR5D43a1pcnVV1-D2fFo_8v2bqmlY1O--96FP7mpiRq92YUEGR-VEN_6HOksEgjB-4wX9LpMRjetxtuNHWAM3MHQYtaPlA?width=480&height=360&cropmode=none)

The blocks are nearly finished, mustn't stuff up from here on!

(https://hfzpzg-sn3301.files.1drv.com/y4mEJoyq5p4YKtMmoel-xwqelE7uYWcY4JtDyJYz0PYLntHsGB7bi74wtyN3ozW_kty18G8FLMJlW_9hTFGQBnieWpmWZMZZcfEtPBP5Axe1lu-JxT8OB4UVAvsgiJqnBLxUmrSVKzQJmLRlfprKlbnOCpl40HHDSDBnY0XdwaFdP__ir8_APrAQAir8U53SvUigs7ATMoVZLPX8OUdooaAQQ?width=480&height=360&cropmode=none)

The combined valve seats and guides are needed before I can drill the ports, after that some tapped holes for securing the water inlets are all that's needed. The final shaping of the outside will have to wait for the heads to be finished which is where I'm headed now to start over...

DT
Title: Re: Len Mason's "Mastiff" - chewed from the solid
Post by: Ye-Ole Steam Dude on August 04, 2017, 07:41:51 AM
G' day DT,

Some progress is better than no progress. This is a beautiful project and I am enjoying following along.

Have a great day,
Thomas
Title: Re: Len Mason's "Mastiff" - chewed from the solid
Post by: Jo on August 04, 2017, 08:31:54 AM
You are doing well David  :ThumbsUp:

Just off to fondle  :embarassed: my Mastiff castings your good work is helping me understand what will be needed when I get round to making my one.

Jo
Title: Re: Len Mason's "Mastiff" - chewed from the solid
Post by: deltatango on August 04, 2017, 11:49:13 AM
Thank you Thomas and Jo for the encouraging words! When you've just had to accept that a lot of hours of work have gone in the bin then the boost is very welcome.

I just looked back at Jo's picture of the castings from early in the build log. In these the water spaces are cast in to the heads which would save a lot of the machining that I messed up. I might become a casting fondler yet... Hope the blog helps with other Mastiff builds, particularly Jo's.


DT
Title: Re: Len Mason's "Mastiff" - chewed from the solid
Post by: Roger B on August 05, 2017, 09:09:52 AM
I tend to call the first attempts that don't quite work 'trial pieces' , it sounds better than scrap  ;)

The second attempt usually goes smoothly as you have already found all (most of  ::) ) the pitfalls
Title: Re: Len Mason's "Mastiff" - chewed from the solid
Post by: deltatango on August 26, 2017, 03:22:05 AM
Progress on Mastiff has slowed down lately, winter viral infections and an unheated workshop don't go well together.

When I first re-drew Mastiff I'd decided to have the valves seating directly in the heads but after further thought I've gone back to Len Mason's original design with inserted, one piece, valve guides and seats. Doing it that way makes getting good alignment between the seats and valve stem guides much more likely. In addition the seats are then easily replaceable if the material (2011 called "machine rod" by the supplier) proves unsuitable.

The mounting holes in the cylinder blocks were reamed 8 mm so 10 mm rod was turned to a "Loctite" fit in the heads using the collet chuck:

(https://hpye2w-sn3301.files.1drv.com/y4m5XXlIfIKMtHnZm2_EpvgknDNuIMKXfFWWeZPuaJpfH9wDV5BQ_VRZQ-m9YpFkLRTkYrvJH3S3PjcXtpl-sG3CtioPhol58U0vgl4FqtD25U8Gy4PqblNcosF3fREjhk5Mrq1a35gDgKU4QWLU5mAMUDMFSiQ-MFsxlVtcvoN5BYA6XiY8THrtLi8U0k3SyOeEqq9GbRF51Amhjf5tl3AZA?width=480&height=360&cropmode=none)

then drilled 6.4 mm for the port then 2.9 and reamed 3.0 mm for the valve guide hole:

(https://jqzpzg-sn3301.files.1drv.com/y4mvh43EVUF4isuuFpr7rNShMKmSrfHvRcD5dH8cZlVdQFhTSTL2_v80cRNlx7XrgimSzFNSbebIRO4HuzaMCdMsBvdGjIr9E3AL5AAtc-qmdhYzk5Chf3DwqLIODFum4EMWGrNt46_sfctVVMBUhaoNF4chfPNB4bQRPNtve7gvsLkKe33Qlg1W3JYElMgUq6IrH97MXunEi7UeKvMPqNZLA?width=480&height=360&cropmode=none)

The seating is at 45° so the top slide was set over:

(https://hqye2w-sn3301.files.1drv.com/y4m6iY6xLSYLHn6vhIgsV0Li3WiBDzXLC0g5hP3cIYEAw8DHLMnUijdk-GHbbdU3SovB7CfMErvud2dQkrCw0qjOIhtnTKTzj5BqTjfnTK0vCITnh1s4hG1ibyMEgD8Jm_xndzNmY1gwIvm70DaKXjLzNOWh1-1h1UHMQpNfyZTwF0AUlSd71SGZb42rG7pJpjFK1lSn916kbAa2UYUJh-2Fw?width=480&height=360&cropmode=none)

and a small boring tool ground up from a broken end-mill to machine the seating:

(https://iqye2w-sn3301.files.1drv.com/y4myT7uWhrhck-syyJiO89EAfYhOp0V8vJjfnPKO6LuyfNqIOX2eZaV8f1Ar8y2S9IEDzVXKMKpfhwiPVEhSfoMnyceK41tvJJSSrS3MAxmSZK-G_3nOVDPWHt8AVxMZpjq1jaG8-SGfD29jS_lFXEu1XmD0xHsas-IqkVUUaiDemvKJwEEppgqUJT_trRyYPoaN76dSwzJT5aAAqJy8Q6omg?width=480&height=360&cropmode=none)

I had much finer control over clamping forces in the 3-jaw chuck than in ER32 collets so, after parting off the pieces were turned around and held carefully to machine the seating for the valve spring:

(https://hvye2w-sn3301.files.1drv.com/y4mANITax4KeTKuKqey-32FTjH_9SqldXDpl-FBuuFBSSyuG3LiFr2VlmUP-dXJSVXVn_XPtgdTYklrCpatGE3xWhK-WzKuuDXQLAdBSxsuHklBYA2cZZWNjmxfxAw95OPeJvc2G367XxKbr1LaJXFTSLHAQNtXzEu_MjAEUDhZ34H5rl3Q4Hx5iGabgkQqKrXU4UJCLilmScm9gGaynwzIqA?width=480&height=360&cropmode=none)

The products (including three of what Roger would call "test pieces") look like:

(https://hfye2w-sn3301.files.1drv.com/y4moUyNPCAzDnWw8qF_NFcn_g9cgaOc_WakRuTymQKNxhz-91PAd2jVZ17Iz8AsBG4i-zovlQh5CsAzvUhKmWxhdZiL53eq38d0ikIvvCR9230IiTr4DDxorDSvQb8c-C_kzrodReUyGT9IImEomUY_pboqCFDQQeq3XiEDxwbx8fWk6UAy7WDwpqSjIjIUUPH76o3PE1g9mi1arflRzcq2IQ?width=480&height=360&cropmode=none)

The reason for the rejections was mostly poor surface finish on the valve seatings.

I've managed to make one "test piece" for the valves leaving the top slide set up, holding the valve by the stem in a collet and taking very small cuts - pictures when I have the 8 valves finished.

DT
Title: Re: Len Mason's "Mastiff" - chewed from the solid
Post by: deltatango on September 14, 2017, 09:15:15 AM
The valves are made from free cutting stainless and the angle and finish on the seating surface, and the size and finish on the stems, need to be good. After turning the seats in the inserted guides I left the topslide set over and hoped that it would be possible to get a tool to reach the seats on the valves from the "inside" rather than trying to reset the topslide angle. The stems need to be 31 mm long, 3 mm diameter.  The length was set with gauge blocks and the saddle stop:

(https://jvye2w-sn3301.files.1drv.com/y4mLYnsjjGrFrHlhtFOFSdljwgvLbadPUiqc8DL6Bjcp8duR5yLiSKGGeJ0COgp-4B3jbxcvq-C7Ufq18TqJ9CqurrcVMX2nV_xXpjQJUgx4Oa06soeSs1FRs1wmrFQOMhdNu0KdUq8bMsUetb6K8lMj2yAx6D5eQdhrfQ4K_haxvt_aDCJkij1oXHoRH7oAxsINKaWxeIc9iP8W-YgFwNjCQ?width=480&height=360&cropmode=none)

The tangential tool took 1 mm cuts to start with:

(https://hvwfua-sn3301.files.1drv.com/y4mVKITBHG833N4BRRukgqcaBXO3q-keaup-gSeRUZ3olC6pS27faAPRTGm-Uq87WMiepVgsddt6p96K3BZu2-R_HsMHJ58G9Tce-xWVXHxjU_4vNws99fMvy2JcI8N56-5tRS4zmgcNjuln_L0cxQID7PfIZMh_in6UTUTEeEwYHeD33YBvzuYNp3_Y-_p2JdWajX9A_GnbF3fQe-EZT5SSg?width=480&height=360&cropmode=none)

followed by a very sharp tipped tool intended for Al alloy to give a fine finish and form a radius under the head. The edge doesn't last very long but two were enough to finish all eight valves. After some fiddling with the angle of the tool holder, and holding the valve stem in an ER16 collet these tips (DCGT11T304 it says on the box) were also used to form the seating:

(https://hqwfua-sn3301.files.1drv.com/y4ma5uPlwMKtPiW8XjvrCNVYVFBUOkPKnVMsMQKYXpWah53ELbrSV_PofLCiV4TdkUtb4PX21qK3hfN-m2zpjJbh3K-YvgoP7D9WItYBvI36n65v3i-q4IvRFAUpAbZqnO0gu90167bdM2xEzWlCCT4E2c9Xn5nTMM7LWzz1oY1Z6NV2fgV6wmEtbfUa90JkKy6Ln-CspyESqNdtEuLLRsutA?width=480&height=360&cropmode=none)

and this end of the valves now looked like:

(https://hfwfua-sn3301.files.1drv.com/y4mChf1vhfsU0MlqPaj31tOEQZ2nsaiwdLuBQvszZIZBGX77yq1zuFH5V0L8l6V9eFMQMDbMJFxzXTbIbEmveFPjVz_9uzxXxgm1gdoOZNyQIljLAV_C_Rzuzbk26JP5QeRdwduPW-E6xAjD2SQGZ2mM2Hzwk4cE8GakEu7P3n0LZrxsXRcaHij8iMyl4jN13X9_GHCf7el1cURdeuUYfUfZw?width=480&height=360&cropmode=none)

With the large overhang of the work I expected to have to turn out some "spring" and this worked fine, however, the valve stems were still not quite parallel which was puzzling and a portent of a nasty discovery later. I'll try these valves when the time comes to run the engine, if they are no good then that will be the time to remake them.

A bit of good fortune allowed the valves to be reversed in the collet:

(https://ipye2w-sn3301.files.1drv.com/y4md86RZ4ZS1Tq93MSY3Q2afICjHu_fNvQjlubHytsKtShWOqBTwsS-NjiUkEvmu1FwtkZ8t_R0NCrpZ3-YzUdRuC1mbhIT9R6Q9Os6xU3Dqn0wNcIpOzqOpOZHMMnRL0I4j3p3WGk29F-6mXYpzqudnwAb8qGPSkhJjzaZRpT0EmWvhZ1pWEokYIEwojYr8HhbGHKxSq3mMaxSKOwto4x9_g?width=480&height=360&cropmode=none)

and project just far enough to turn in the groove for the cotters:

(https://ifye2w-sn3301.files.1drv.com/y4mvmT8sVeH9KieC38fmOh0nrsQNmag2XoeFJNAMAkrDyM09_a_2RKW-KZmqlEJ2RlP5x90BI9SqDg00RNfEWFc4p2R7RXN54JQXSzl8AL99rFY25EBOBP_VEKfPKSalGMMult6xgsdVWZsyOgf7PtQQwnPpxnSBekeCHLlU9gxjK3XVqIfOYrXeZxioz0tn1W2sbYKaLhVHfRIyYBDRD2k4Q?width=480&height=360&cropmode=none)

The cotters were turned and parted off and the slots cut by hand. The recess for the spring was formed using a slot drill then the collar parted off and Superglue'd to a stub so the cotter recess could be formed the same way:

(https://hpwfua-sn3301.files.1drv.com/y4mHb6S_xlWFpxXIePSiFfmaHX6gq581B2hWVZ4rrq8rcZlBRTcvknQsy1uwQoB17BTaiZPSmWUvWYNHupzCdiVqIaSar5sh48JtpNS3VRwimSEBXPXvmVkFAUL6gzb2DAjT97bUFlMc_AFxp0tKxBNes61uczEm4ON2_bAt-Ci5f6ioQ1ZyNC9mYC8QqX6srj_k2zdWnWDw3s2MSsNz-H0KA?width=480&height=360&cropmode=none)

With the seatings now Loctite'd into the blocks the bits could be assembled and tested for "feel" which seems OK right now:

(https://iqwfua-sn3301.files.1drv.com/y4mWdNNFTmpBSBfsnlpGrb9qOuvwxrjGc1BX-ByImvr3bXj7yRRlmDQ7408e3apCErmBZ68qPvOnsxYsnagScAg2f6UyrSSt4LL_5nzqBrxJ54tZqthMNfBEZl50xc09efkK9Ffq4BNPbgAGvkrjKNNrZMA4mqtrbQJGtSOVNhH3cTpv1fLVLg69cpdiR4PT2LnlBsvnji-wiGJW2WeImkvxQ?width=480&height=360&cropmode=none)

I then moved on to making the cylinder liners and it quickly became clear that the lathe doesn't bore parallel holes. Everything came out beautifully concentric and the poor abused DCGT11T304 tips gave a very fine finish to the CI but when I measured the bore at each end of the 85 mm blank (two liners back-to-back) the chuck end was nearly 0.2 bigger, which matches the differences I found in the valve stems. A length of ground bar in the GripTru chuck showed a similar angularity and I'll now buy in a proper 4MT test bar before doing anything more drastic to the machine. It looks like the headstock may be out of line with the bed and the lathe did spend around 25 years in a Tech School so accidental abuse is quite possible.

I now have a month to relax a bit with a visit to the UK including the Forncett day out to look forward to from Sunday on.

Regards, DT
Title: Re: Len Mason's "Mastiff" - chewed from the solid
Post by: Roger B on September 22, 2017, 06:58:26 PM
Still following along  :ThumbsUp:  :ThumbsUp:  :wine1: I have made my valves from stainless steel screws and bolts which are already forged to something near the right shape.
Title: Re: Len Mason's "Mastiff" - chewed from the solid
Post by: deltatango on September 24, 2017, 09:46:06 AM
Thanks Roger,
I've thought of using bolts as a source of materials, never thought as far as finding parts near the right size to use as forgings. Great idea!
DT
Title: Re: Len Mason's "Mastiff" - chewed from the solid
Post by: deltatango on November 09, 2017, 03:49:41 AM
I've now got this project back on track and the lathe adjusted to turn and bore parallel. The lathe bed was slightly twisted and must have been like that since I installed it. Tweaking the mountings and measuring with a dial gauge and 4MT test bar has brought the machine just within Schlesinger's limits for "Finish turning lathes" which are 0 to 0.02 mm per 300 mm for "work spindle parallel with bed in horizontal plane". My apologies to the lads and lasses of the Tech!

The Forncett St Mary Industrial Steam Museum is a great credit to Rowen Francis and his volunteers and very well worth a visit if you are anywhere nearby. I also got to meet some other MEM members and see their work - which set standards that I have to aim for. Thank you again Willy, Andrew, Ramon and Simon, and to Bill for the organisation.

To complete the story of the cylinder liners these started as two 80 mm lengths of continuous-cast iron which machined beautifully (cast iron is probably my favorite material to machine despite the mess). These were drilled:

(https://ipwfua-sn3301.files.1drv.com/y4msT95i7ZAoIJYCN66BWEIUrHQVdgngTRNkrBpfDxlaiS1yR21WK6mJ4bhX69ZCJ3uxX8ZJzF1JDhFDfvJvyMwgvPFsscuhnZxZ7Wh10MJnK312LNVD2_eek2PwhLt9Ak7ea-nz31UH_aCY4dHRdIHz_ATpRJiuxhBCcped8ni70cG_JU3R96GglMYqqB8qt8HkXuNg536hBoo8ARn8jTJbA?width=480&height=360&cropmode=none)

then bored to lapping size:

(https://jqwfua-sn3302.files.1drv.com/y4mrMDU2gfw5rNdTD8oKAV-ixMKKMDW_UlnBdCmktevfHOwIvgBaV_LGVRWszd-GdIxwpnpnAPDCxyGB3jk0wBi8FOisWx3pJwx2hFb0o0uWs1VL9hmFfliz85nqR5cxI6q9Ndd41ure1fPt7gc54Zz0UZx-usJj4ZgbpZzlrUsHh0uMONkFJmqTaUibX229DFCC2BoBMhlWHHNIkkJ-Pzpkw?width=480&height=360&cropmode=none)

Turned between centres on an expanding mandrel:

(https://hqy6xa-sn3302.files.1drv.com/y4mNaez4AaWimmd17BOZ2Pdd9DJWj3afUz4wajy8av-KHPyHmqBe5N8ifuCjhlJHhiSO9m-SU3SF0k4viSz8Ilc1px9ZLLhJueIF67d6O_L44Sei5-gCfCZhiXZNskYpkYO5j8HWfDXHItkun8HbTF8uZ6Cpf3eR58O8n8C4AJw2HmAf6vI1L1Ps4sGR5ZHjl8iLZqfGeLe0gRviH8GHoYMGA?width=480&height=360&cropmode=none)

then separated and finish turned on the outside to a glue-in fit in the cylinder blocks and the top flange skimmed to thickness:

(https://hpy6xa-sn3301.files.1drv.com/y4mY5eOLAgMXIN7XkXJWQjcgNDWSA4j3j56Utl-zEgb0s87VihOMHnUQi80supMPAwbPyQNava8i0NT2SGU38k6AjoGuKnt7_CDDXUdLDF2O-fIv2Ll6_mZTelyLx8FaT0gemq4Lq9Ip5CGWVXMx1_ha0dFNuKQ_kHviB4VIiLLIWwMkUyfmhQdcOwzjbjFqSPcpFkgUonCndb60aSTWjsX9Q?width=480&height=360&cropmode=none)

(https://hfy6xa-sn3302.files.1drv.com/y4mv5Aguhx3rKvo34tP-mQdGXgcD56RwIkYqwQqYjOVICITWdg9khbLqnHwSnE-kpCvj7E86os5UlX65k5WpfnsuWRuxe5vX7XRkBKE2xYElSX9zfc8zNegp3iZC8FqKn7Xpcbypt8qJvAalMvjGhgX5srW1mLsYY4wSpGriJvW0nQjlN6X6xy_Fr1AksZd5TttDY3SK0iG-JXjps5kfAVaUw?width=480&height=360&cropmode=none)

The 4-jaw SC chuck is a great help for minimising distortion whilst getting a firm grip on delicate parts.

At this stage I measured up and found the out-of-parallel error in the bores. I decided to clean this up with an adjustable reamer which got the bores parallel but left the finish noticeably rougher than that from the boring tool.

I made a lap as described by Len Mason (and Ramon in his wonderful MEM treatise on lapping):

(https://ifylig-dm2305.files.1drv.com/y4mkR42yWGid80fUbaI_jOhTQ6_N6mn37fo9aHqBU_Nie0BH5WGsrtTdp8dCSGS5beSqFjCqRO563QRL8aIStSqpRdbsqzyP5NUQe7pvZconUSIbTyG-cNxYDtZYWx-TzJ1ckaVBOEZPKIXenuYnbxAGFWs0UPQc0gx8Zsiw-MzZNRFisQRoQ0ElfDiTlaiEa_nk3eL7eZOFwQcgCxW7mz9YQ?width=480&height=360&cropmode=none)

and finally got the bores parallel and to what I hope is a useful finish (beyond grinding in car engine valves I haven't lapped anything before) :

(https://ipylig-dm2305.files.1drv.com/y4mFUgaJoP5dRUABPQbzfJHBRQa4bYlwEkl1S5pNg-uNwN8zWVwjOnRUIoIqbaFozVa77t-Z1U1QS7nAFuWfOEEJSOA7m94K58g-uLpGHB3dbKA1QxSHxK-27T1aFbMkhS7CUBlXX6nhwBubLGUVgyZFMaMsGII1qbkuEyUuKrWmcgsY-JzXX_6_i0dSRWr-eCtfE_6dP-e3oeXV1kI8quRtw?width=480&height=360&cropmode=none)

The bores ended up a little over size, particularly #4, but this can be corrected for in making the pistons which are the next bits on the list.

DT
Title: Re: Len Mason's "Mastiff" - chewed from the solid
Post by: Ramon on November 09, 2017, 01:12:15 PM
The Forncett St Mary Industrial Steam Museum is a great credit to Rowen Francis and his volunteers and very well worth a visit if you are anywhere nearby. I also got to meet some other MEM members and see their work - which set standards that I have to aim for. Thank you again Willy, Andrew, Ramon and Simon, and to Bill for the organisation.

Glad to see you back in the workshop DT and nice to think you remember your 'Day Out' at Forncett with fond memories. I notice elsewhere the bemoaning of the loss of some exhibition facilities particularly with being able to run engines. Well Forncett always has encouraged this and hopefully will continue to do so without the restrictions that others find  - maybe it will encourage one or two new faces to join us next year and we'll look forwards to you returning at some stage David.


I made a lap as described by Len Mason (and Ramon in his wonderful MEM treatise on lapping):

Ah, that confirms it then - I thought it was Len Mason's design but was never certain. Hope it was as successful for you as they have been for me. I set out years ago to make a Mastiff, bought the castings and drawings (Reeves :-\ ?) and the book but like several other ideas it waned to the point where it was finally sold on unstarted. I think I may have said elsewhere on here before - 'Intention' and 'Reality' are quite opposing forces at times  ::)

I haven't been on here for some time so have not been privy to your thread before now. I have a copy of Masons book 'Building the Mastiff' on the shelf. Not my original but another passed on when a friend died. If you don't have a copy and would like it I'd be more than happy to send it you - just say.


Regards - Ramon
Title: Re: Len Mason's "Mastiff" - chewed from the solid
Post by: b.lindsey on November 09, 2017, 01:52:54 PM
Still with you DT. Nice to see and update on this build  :)

Bill
Title: Re: Len Mason's "Mastiff" - chewed from the solid
Post by: deltatango on November 11, 2017, 12:36:05 AM
Thanks for the offer Ramon but I already have a copy of the book. I don't know what the drawings are like in your copy but in mine they are poorly reproduced and that was one motivation for re-drawing the whole thing in Alibre. I also wanted to avoid the use of castings and use metric fasteners and dimensions where possible.

Bill - I pleased your are still following along, hope you will hang in here until I'm forced to open a YouTube account for the videos...

David
Title: Re: Len Mason's "Mastiff" - chewed from the solid
Post by: Ramon on November 12, 2017, 11:21:07 AM
No probs DT - it was just a thought in case you didn't have one. As I haven't followed your thread I was unaware too that you had redrawn it. I checked the book, an original hard back version, and as you say the drawings at times are indeed 'poor' at best.

Enjoy your shop Time

Regards - Ramon
Title: Re: Len Mason's "Mastiff" - chewed from the solid
Post by: deltatango on December 05, 2017, 11:21:22 AM
The Mastiff pistons are made in two parts and then silver-soldered together. This allows you to form the gudgeon pin bosses to a shape that would be impossible if machining from the solid. The outer sleeves are turned from cast iron (my favourite material) and the chips were flying:

(https://g4fdoa-dm2305.files.1drv.com/y4mUMJqAromkAuYmO_jsNSdUmmZKqGKMmbwbepTP9K4n0N_AI0Rjzrk8GPYMJvPeB-rV_qGsFYW19UQ6kVulq5QhQYl56Kfnm5sroQIi_0I1Bknf-2zdhJ2tBw6vDh6ue4X4Tvqs9k1bFmGKMGdtxi71IfmDklSsNXPhT7PvtP8NMmPqumALV7syfO1geJFMmhMesds86j2wkZp1NAvkKXKlw?width=480&height=516&cropmode=none)

The sleeves have an internal step that locates the steel core:

(https://g4entw-dm2305.files.1drv.com/y4mgSQvPdj6xZ1a0vWCY7CZO96Hf8Mh4NRqVtAEu4BIcpTseKx0GCp0z7AS-3NKzi4XpcJhrbAVZ4z2MchaDSkvzy22BCCro8O3QiDujrjA-VgfdGP-ISH6_k8CqrWpgjVhjPdpN1UVKekuYKueN3kmG0bkqYmqOQrG2RMz35-q_RxHxM7px5c9Do1SYAn-z87ciRKhgkIzogKFVDc49oRzKg?width=480&height=360&cropmode=none)

which starts out looking like:

(https://hoentw-dm2305.files.1drv.com/y4m72c8jE_WybdnStlLATv_Mu8CDVjzz7WI0Oi7VlLmmN6e0XNiKJ3U7rWprIlKCzaq8r2DFni8hjt_-ZSjxt3leIDVGx_LFRfr9LzSRvpkbiuH8AraZD3mfxW92E1g-zVtsHgQWWxgwugdnt6sYLJHrHTuXg9G_7TDQ8RXjHUXtciRz6HMH2iOBbdxx96cmAtza8eI5KTbqAvjysJKHvOEzQ?width=480&height=640&cropmode=none)

the groove on the narrower portion is a tell-tale that, during silver soldering, shows when the sleeve has slid down to where it should be. The larger diameter end will become the gudgeon pin bosses and first has a flat machined on each side:

(https://goentw-dm2305.files.1drv.com/y4mQ5bgCzyR0xQWjUTUDxZq_i1PAHIPlZkuXV2dMrjrvuZaQBSuPCvZSmyFWSkpRId5s1SyPHoKq6UPCdDtNP7Nwl5zYY5RlxOcAhBXu9pcYqhn6L9go9KHrSk7wQ7EezAHEy-kRARCR3qFK2atUSQHfvrJDndyBmM7yYhTm4Gryq7g99kOVd2p_I2XlFeFz1Ni5dysgjh8audYVH48KKBZIg?width=480&height=360&cropmode=none)
(https://gyentw-dm2305.files.1drv.com/y4mZt5NhttdahqwukM0QmTYcxVcgjZXSfAXYWUAveuOK_BhiVFsUOycUHETuLY-p5MPlYrQYCFV-G7ufgzvmPqwB3NzsgIWBgRY5mesBGr441GEU7tPqPmPXL1DwXNwoRIy33r4QCmq1bvyDpVUlJinW7uLVcN_LADRgSi-4tp3xftYcm5in0AhNk_txjBEV5eXnMoN0nAOzoaGURPm_zEZ_w?width=480&height=360&cropmode=none)

so it looks like:
(https://h4entw-dm2305.files.1drv.com/y4mimcmKyhpynF7VRpQ9iJjmD5-M5ihLJOGBamRrbM1LrrwzwUKix9gCpTsZ93z2I4RU6vT2N8Wcyuxwl80da0nIEvZQ96YfTy4hhmv33FEV4kljdyKN-F-Jy5OVBNNcojfvyYzmA9yvhkPnykDObWnRTuntD0ZK9_bLrwE_jqP-aHkNLeJCeixK-unGJLUdPFxZgIv8AnLV__LqVWemrVWKA?width=480&height=640&cropmode=none)

and the top is rounded over by hand filing:

(https://jientw-dm2305.files.1drv.com/y4mLqbO1M981ZV5bLkgMj4gGks9JsvwBrtKgdX4VApYLoZD6H_48-ZM-Q4Hpy_r6OZ4Jn5DdkZemXgo2CUcWvsxcQUQmd1rYFZvZyf28oSkiBsGc9mOfngPVWb-wvxl2OQhCXC1z4CO0QktROEYMBh9OxB3IeQ0Skc3CCobJ8jtm3DWoEJgT_Dz0yKElhDFUmBHknx9LeF1F11ezaMM5N30KQ?width=480&height=640&cropmode=none)

To cut the groove across the gudgeon pin hole the core has to be aligned carefully which I did using a v-block and square:

(https://hyentw-dm2305.files.1drv.com/y4mkggXzrqx9FPikDeqS3bCx4SMxokRXk_Jj1gvF1InZFg9wCt15DT_zIIZNSEAzkricvdHiQqDdsvgBc_zscxf7lulj9GXaH9vy9inYPOuOjoLntBxvRKufbAxwh8HAWFbcvw_MYsmlPQq2kOcXcdSc4vAPGMtY6ALgITlfOgtgQECktlh9ydYct2y5h6rGENHBVwpnJGoRnFM4KXOd1UoXg?width=480&height=360&cropmode=none)

and the whole lot secured in the machine vice:

(https://hidcxa-dm2305.files.1drv.com/y4mrMGNsz_1JlYCQK6YpBR__RFm2VTz-AN20vMLqHKcNtMdSrcYncR5vGt_X4dYNOhC6nRW4jP1FeDeM0R4Aj1KuVtnnlCU4WX-3JI6g90r5Qr9PBnqOwDDHcbN1incoQAIY1QDAmWZrDvWpn76_0P-n5oB1eikgESlcrpLWG25Y_KrOLAe_wJnvOovalFScpxvIgX6cSZoRoG0RIubxmJC5g?width=480&height=360&cropmode=none)

to cut the slot:

(https://i4entw-dm2305.files.1drv.com/y4mE2_2Hxhdw7uPJZHsI2hymb70M8QgMIj1pg8atdFipzc_CwqDkHTGIDaV9eQeoIqMUOnR7ti7AVEYSlBLMwQPmaMaZr5hy2ANnzeESD7zdV6M0e3k5NrVFjAtBSde07CnvbF5jM28vWiLvQ1hjDSi_bC4lYt29hUCamM6qHQ0W2gop9JckAOHYCGRqg_ujRymd09zE4Dq1hMTCD-4r6jVhg?width=480&height=360&cropmode=none)

and finally looks like:

(https://hifdoa-dm2305.files.1drv.com/y4mHQ_c3Pw_nwBRJa1iCDfcywlkWOVpMX_k0bbEkD1bbM11cz6P_iVdw2SMDUJxZr1U9TGt1A0aAGEpQwQ61LfJABJasKcwTGUiePzZMKeFfX-oNxXnMrre_TsSZcz36IZkmTm0pF5chEUyPySV4esgtJRHbnNFGwt7T-v74TqcJqPqUvwFGxyN1VFNVcE9t4myCwt8RYRtQMzXuHwiUHrX4g?width=480&height=640&cropmode=none)

I don't take the camera anywhere near the brazing hearth so the next pictures show the soldered assembly being trued up and brought close to size in the lathe prior to lapping and internal boring:

(https://gydcxa-dm2305.files.1drv.com/y4myoi33OWdfvQGbrRyp0U1faMvE1UAJFtpemhJrRCZrPEjH1Zeu2yeih4BVwKU-Q2j7-4U4W9u7x3i94tZS3hxh-MAuoE_FydQz3PeA_OOXnoAf4hlb2q6XmmSvro5jKpiNHa5nokHP8to0k_EBz_CslcW964lD8-SJjPpMU1QdK3hRgSrGdAO6Af4rA8eKcT3a4KMlVMK9VZ64DAPmNLABQ?width=480&height=360&cropmode=none)

The outer sleeve has extra length which will end up being parted off to form two piston rings.

Time for a breather - next post I'll finish off the four pistons.

DT
Title: Re: Len Mason's "Mastiff" - chewed from the solid
Post by: Roger B on December 05, 2017, 11:28:30 AM
That seems quite a complicated way to make a piston. I wonder if it has any real advantages? Still following along  :ThumbsUp:  :ThumbsUp:  :wine1:
Title: Re: Len Mason's "Mastiff" - chewed from the solid
Post by: deltatango on December 05, 2017, 10:38:48 PM
Hi Roger, I'm pleased to know you're still following! I agree about the pistons being complex, I'm following Len Mason's book and that is how he makes them. This is my first IC engine and I'm learning a lot, in future I should have the confidence to re-design bits that I don't like. I did think about making the pistons from solid alloy or scrounging up an old piston and having a go at casting some. After all aluminium pistons in a cast iron bore are a very well known good combination!

Any advice (or pointers to existing books/web pages) about alloys for pistons, or the tricks and traps of casting piston alloys, would be appreciated.

Regards, DT
Title: Re: Len Mason's "Mastiff" - chewed from the solid
Post by: deltatango on December 12, 2017, 11:52:31 AM
Silver soldering isn't a precise method so the embryo pistons were trued up in the lathe, leaving (I thought) enough over size for lapping. The lap used was to a design I found in Ramon's treatise on this forum, thanks again Ramon!:

(https://godcxa-dm2305.files.1drv.com/y4mmt7QWlK3Rx4RYO1wY53SUuQcXNbQUAP_TgF9nmldFaV5IAgn9EB8IUT7Z3d8zmp0N9TSNmfLN8CY2F2kUu35waPGSqKUNgJ27BuGeuMmL4hSTZT4BZ7s-EpqBX1ZxYFn2wPSzEDJbRPXR8su2ge6eirjX7EDI6m5AdFPqoMS1dTcdaKsb1RW8MaGZKdtEmeJEe2NuKpPSfuOaj3WxJdOwQ?width=480&height=360&cropmode=none)

In the book Len Mason suggests wrapping a strip of copper into a cylinder and securing with a hose clip which didn't sound too safe to use. After one piston I ran out of grinding paste and went and bought a tube of paste that claimed to break down and become finer with use, well some of the grains did, some didn't, at least in time before the piston was to size. This left the finish with visible scratches but with the finish feeling smooth. Without any more metal left to remove I have to be content with the finish as-is and hope it serves the purpose. Another lesson learned!

The outboard end of the piston skirt was left over long to provide metal for the rings and this portion was bored to size to a plug gauge:

(https://h4dcxa-dm2305.files.1drv.com/y4mfaiSAIRb751bAps-GjIkVe_7hk1Ti_Eu5nFnYFdvGoBXKfcOYifSyJ7y11NihXW1tkVk9ivxNQc9naHBzKQlUGoL8ol_MGe3XFtKNv-J2Dc7yzrHoBRJmGQVIsbNzsSv37FHOdSykk_wkYXf6oLsRqoiY340QHp4kgSOlT60TNm3Sr4-2STsXdbickqueSYJD4Z1dQb7_O4dUP9W-rfuMA?width=480&height=360&cropmode=none)

and two rings parted off to leave the skirt at the correct length:

(https://hydcxa-dm2305.files.1drv.com/y4mJvnhwuz1DCJvTw5HwV2uzjxjJSDslVZDu6oy5-plY1tTsm8mylO3sxh59V-vhDtP8WE87xuPNMxDsIq5secAGgSSdJzfjUYA6aQqbIMkTpxhs48IPqI8kkwbeZe-ai9BRcryFwwcoDGnXsbaXy5dx_g3EFP79SIvUEtT03DTr6ZjkP2oVHRczLQkOSKVE5zpLZSJplzmaNP8Gq25ni8ovw?width=480&height=360&cropmode=none)

the ring groove turned in. In this picture you can see the silver solder in the tell-tale groove shown earlier :

(https://jidcxa-dm2305.files.1drv.com/y4mDGhzA_fONZkHweyeh7_U2RG57Ps0R_5C8dUwa0GkApsXPjOm0V0lDgptADHyrUCP9rw7J_BcMxbbdBxI3_DWT15Xp66BhCGikA9KzrQHYV8d5RNxWp0qp4MI2fNCOBshX8vv7qWFZQxx3EUVdcu0_6jSKHSONfnrxXg5Z0Jl0skfM9UFiRHMTq0ki9LM3w-1py-fi-hAh4G621JRicRqOA?width=480&height=360&cropmode=none)

Here is a little family group shot of the progress so far. The little extra "piston ring" is the burr that came off at the end of the parting cut. I wouldn't deliberately try to make a ring of cast iron 11/16th diameter and 0.008" thick but it is possible if you don't try too hard!:

(https://iientw-dm2305.files.1drv.com/y4mjNE8OZfb0EMfCVnrnxqZQkTGxnVWFuZB9yM1Ay5JLV1j0hcc5Rv6MwAskqPT9mlB7wskJXe9H-L6az-EM-1xYHaULphV9zqxEGoc-Dug6FU2zL8GyQ2UkVAQF_KDLHOQPDiVgASH-HBuy_Ix4Z-9Ey_FmTIaNa_UzjRbjGsYMYLqEsYK0JyUF_zc9V8UZJbdjMbICC3tOPinb-3MC5QkMA?width=480&height=360&cropmode=none)

The next task that really needed to come out right was to drill and ream the gudgeon pin holes. I thinned down one end of a stub of square stock to a close fit between the lugs inside the piston, set the side of this vertical with the part in the chuck and scribed the centre with a sharp lathe tool:

(https://hyfkfw-dm2305.files.1drv.com/y4moF1x2joO5PFjkQ4hHwetBM7ErixF8YOQHqzHL8iwSqprQhQEOUz73mtEZyBi1hm24oY9xHhmUnF1ESJq2kGxOERcRmFu6oceajZ3_xmgUIbMjtsK5IK9ucwDv4wfDRUCL5mJJ4g-koSHO4yqyE4fMLuvDkmKCERBaWMPYJGNnosCZTPNSxbHFvM3zymFhzWdJAguWaqduHwepnQmDGVpKg?width=480&height=360&cropmode=none)

The same setting piece was then used to align and clamp the piston in a V-block:

(https://jifkfw-dm2305.files.1drv.com/y4mYYVPogw2WdPtqTA8QDcp4YuXdolFBVkLaevvyv-I3_O6K72jxp54KIMsMwxowhX9AiKBhA2ciunu4L243LO7fhJZ7YQmoYjwIlMfJmLMQfgC9kOQx9LZlX1yvfAmjN3AriwbKg1vBLlsyLregJRVJdwAK45s2sVQfwYJ7v5sgFhlvjBBkETUDq2K9eyC5dROvYb1_GazIXjx7e9hElOqSA?width=480&height=360&cropmode=none)

and line up under the drill and reamer on the mill table:

(https://hidq9a-dm2305.files.1drv.com/y4mGuKD9ddwKrMqTX3IJ_VcOgPg-QtipP92mDv2_8CEoJfHjK5k51yQ5hSE9tFs3Kxd2IamfPbwtSdwqVNHGZf1nn0KvCTQxF-KljamIpbVGgArX2dL-cWqHO8eJDhzAX0xK_0C5a6d7SwumYgnqlPnqGo2TGMAdFZ9Yg0iHbyJXPYiEheSEVr1y83xHSZVS58NoTvZbygJWZc-FPVfnvbg6Q?width=480&height=640&cropmode=none)

Each piston had been number stamped early in the process:

(https://hofkfw-dm2305.files.1drv.com/y4mrgDC2U9sdjalZEMHfUNXxaZdFvMrwlOH2h8vB2e1UQAU4W3RguGmugmFovLpzINtYtlNOh_Ta1dTXdF_jy9ZzyItkltWgEHGXu7J_Fxi0z4EelOTAiFeGpWZQ1BRX1TVxvdF7ISo85SHfXDF-VQNnD3-7gxvrHJ3VlfWDIyXySnAcibnISjLELCksDlKSrE4NraKtBA1EehCj7XkGdh94w?width=480&height=360&cropmode=none)

to make sure I can tell which is which when they get mixed up together:

(https://i4fkfw-dm2305.files.1drv.com/y4myQkwuCSKwaQ9e6InGOtPLPTyymDYt3DpSQkEktzVWFf9a4ggHfGvY2_ax4L1_OloHvdMpd3JMZC1SCbiey9sfI22eZnkeZ3chne_Ha4ZHfYRY-QXmdn8USOmMyuw4EAazF4Nvp84nWa_RV81gdKhYRLripy2smbz6QWfjGcOoGisYpeE5aBk8qda5Aoz5Z2PAewF_SfVPFxu-KhhCTHjmg?width=480&height=360&cropmode=none)

There's been a bit of a break in the Mastiff work to catch up getting the garden ready for summer (37C forecast for tomorrow) and to fit a DRO to the Aciera mill. Obviously the folks at Aciera in 1950(?) weren't thinking about DROs...

Regards, DT

Title: Re: Len Mason's "Mastiff" - chewed from the solid
Post by: Jo on December 12, 2017, 12:02:34 PM
Looking good DT  :)

I fitted DRO's to Sexy if you need any ideas for mounts.

Jo
Title: Re: Len Mason's "Mastiff" - chewed from the solid
Post by: deltatango on December 18, 2017, 10:11:46 AM
Thanks Jo,
I'm sorry not to have asked the forum  for advice before fitting the DRO, I still haven't quite got used to having access to all that expertise! By the time I wrote the previous post I'd already finished the process:

(https://k4op2a-dm2305.files.1drv.com/y4mc2idxVKPYXr2OGn1RGvoDcdRfLSpD689bZvuBOhUj8wZS6QH_ncXfN1upNmfpSYpo7nZdK-qeinBAzx0iyh8RjzQPFZ3ozqZDUGs0Bc9IyAM-aXlYR_LAr1Q9TL2NzeGQCBlfP1LO_hTLi9qvJ1lty4-jnPnvqyCef2g3R45ZRfJcSAKsw4uyq6RTbFCr6B2BDTZy0jj3PEm8DMMqaCeBA?width=480&height=360&cropmode=none)

The x-axis scale mounting looks a bit hairy but the Al bar behind it is stiff. The z scale makes it impossible to fit the z limit stops but the bar on which they run is still there and provides a bit of mechanical protection. The y and z scales are the small cross-section versions, any bigger and they wouldn't fit, particularly the y-axis which is tucked in behind the stepped pulley that drives the head. Apart from the tapped holes I didn't make any non-reversible changes to the machine, nor are any of the travels limited by the scales.

Using the DRO is just magic! The z movement always gave me problems, the other lead screws have a 1/8" pitch, z has "one turn = 78 thou" stamped on the dial! I suppose this is a nominal  2 mm but the DRO show up a repeating pitch error that was causing problems.

OK, back to Mastiff in the next post.

DT
Title: Re: Len Mason's "Mastiff" - chewed from the solid
Post by: deltatango on December 18, 2017, 10:30:14 AM
On to the last few Mastiff bits for 2017...

The camshaft cover has the oil filler hole and four screw holes but is otherwise very plain. The blank plate was milled to thickness leaving the filler hole boss square. Lots of chips for those who like chips:

(https://i4dq9a-dm2305.files.1drv.com/y4myn9a864zsJXMJ7Ex-RJ3K1WbidTHvDiu7wRVLPC9dPN6UdCorDIwQRjAAfJFgQmC3V-QPZsLGUXISJFTm1Trz61ORtyTrFl7_d2ZzoG4P_uEJVZyl3Vpgns9bzHheQDttYiobTuVnXf_-ZpkHZvOlQeN5gSmEhtiGiq_GEe9RZ4VXptfSb4FrJ7cowTvJ37v5H6NXZYSOxss8Y4gkKTZ2A?width=480&height=360&cropmode=none)

and the boss turned circular in the 4-jaw:

(https://jidq9a-dm2305.files.1drv.com/y4m29nhXaiNVZQC7fZLin1ATzdRr1vbv2pGwUWdv_RAbjbMy9yLO_8lGkpA2nTgCOOmgywNEVNNFBabpfv-ONmQeEJOcaT8bEj7z1Kb6bTEdWvZuYv_lIm86ThTQhM_TQoXb34cK84OyIMwH_4pANzKA-GkRa41-QFxnuGaS42Rsns0-5VJuJM_62jw7LrQkcNBIGMGxCpOBiTRLG58ZBNPfg?width=480&height=360&cropmode=none)

I drilled and tapped the last few holes in the crankcase and blocks, drilled the fixing holes in the camshaft cover and screwed everything together to make a lump of bits that is starting to look like an engine:

(https://liop2a-dm2305.files.1drv.com/y4msShcylpoFHo-DujJkpOgMU_LjvLmsqmVnipKlmSci18jwIjqqfQjMFPYWL9E2mM8dc38vh1UuUTwhT6LnyXfDUCeqUeKwNTUpAdZy_ViejZkwDA7BrqN3nOp2NechdR5jpeH6uDXpFfT4vCm9tdEj-Nhy0ORKMw2hnwlCzURtK3ddfxxFQakW0PAiQ_2KS_tlzhP-9sWm64hk8KVUIUA4A?width=480&height=360&cropmode=none)

(https://lyop2a-dm2305.files.1drv.com/y4mTPO2xyJpC7EN7wGVIAmOASsPxLBSNOr54SeG5aN0YHoyyB5H3gd6GPSkywdTzSHHzNCota_xfdGuL54CJll23VDjBpG5n9pHWeqzy5A_Xsyh44OwhiYJKD5JtLd7II4EK1VAyRyAYC9kMEoLRFHqUUAP8JJbeYsFDJXZzAGpBNL8McwaFb3YZ1VItzH7A2iNJUKjXjwSNsb60lxvlB65Qg?width=480&height=360&cropmode=none)

It all turns over and the valve timing looks OK to a first approximation.

I've started work on the conrods but we are moving to the coast for Christmas in a couple of days and the workshop gets left behind until after the New Year. This is the time for family, food, beer, wine and the sound of Bass Strait surf to help us get to sleep.

Best wishes to everyone for Christmas and 2018!

DT
Title: Re: Len Mason's "Mastiff" - chewed from the solid
Post by: Dave Otto on December 18, 2017, 07:05:51 PM
Looks great DT!
Enjoy your time away.

Dave
Title: Re: Len Mason's "Mastiff" - chewed from the solid
Post by: 90LX_Notch on December 19, 2017, 01:09:25 AM
Nice progress DT.  Still following along and enjoying your build.

-Bob
Title: Re: Len Mason's "Mastiff" - chewed from the solid
Post by: deltatango on May 07, 2018, 07:45:57 AM
OK, sorry about the long wait but I'm finally back to the Mastiff build after a couple of "distractions". The first of these was a kit for a clone Prusa i3 3D printer which took a few days to get built, then several weeks to get working to my satisfaction. This now needs an enclosure building to keep the temperature up now that autumn is with us here but that has to wait until Mastiff is a lot further forward. The second distraction was building a stepper motor drive for my dividing heads and rotary table. This is based on Gary Liming's  "Step Indexer v. 2.3" from Digital Machinist magazine and Gary's website: http://liming.org/millindex/ . I've modified the software a fair bit to accommodate the Aciera dividing head and such features as setting fractional angle increments:

(https://khvv2g.dm.files.1drv.com/y4mX8fiAVIiAdJ9kp6MhfU6jarqpSa9xBQ3sNW3zJScGNGWGCM2Ml7XpH1Dj58Io8ULEiRvgs6YWB-1iPAMWBb86om3wtiHPzKAqLwtKRPWLSV_Yt6sy3oiyDaLyF-C9ygahOmCY6vJXIDP_BMVm3Pil00tnpbqgr3G2kOeF3PZLyBJ9uYLQwhEr-z_40j73q_MWDePzCtHKCB7un9sE30reQ?width=800&height=600&cropmode=none)

More later in the post.

The next parts are the connecting rods which are made from the rectangular bar of "high tensile aluminium" supplied by Hemingway's. I should ask Kirk for the actual specification as it is very nice stuff to machine.

The bar was milled to the outside dimensions of the conrods:

(https://mrvv2g.dm.files.1drv.com/y4mdz1ckUPhEIZrNgiSnUDjccFGAe-EXflXUby6ocloyeoWBD6DTiMKycdPxKBo6gxzisi674RYOSKyEh-S6pltWBxgd2SH9QWfsjr9hcPDU85bdWM_NtZimRsYn9pK0H4G_QujQ6a9ywCxW2jtBVTKzWVcHtDlUPBCSZslCgeew3v2FWdoPaKAUSmAeakeyW6W-_rs4YwYzlzPl2dbkYSktw?width=800&height=600&cropmode=none)

then cut into four lengths and the bearing cap screw holes drilled and tapped before separating the caps from the rod blanks and milling both sets to length:

(https://mhvv2g.dm.files.1drv.com/y4mFFcASYmNrEr3KFoK6THv7Cr14kELUKlNoYJO0dVKL35Sm7kM3i6GFsUb8wTfz6aAGT9V3CIW7URc-sWTZwllDoplno1pEP7OtLHkiwhuvpcQsbBYXqohzl6eDcE30luMCL_zj2JJ2mN3nugOf2ff-WkgcMVO2g3bkQx42ey9odqD4XYtHDu4nK6Us8LR02YdhaAPsH7CKZ6X1_4BvKjKBw?width=800&height=600&cropmode=none)

(https://khuktw.dm.files.1drv.com/y4mEh5Xm_GCHDnA-nRwCGMmRmkjQ7KNRKu5aQcvF4UsC9FoHAF7kzAisOuFevGFMNKSpuoEwwEPsevtizW1wXDmTAC2ZnPWJjTML9Y6pcEZ6S90kcDRsK8Ezoav2ZUOIBdTUd9rGT042HyHv0LaujQ2Bim8n1jIXyfbwwedvR70sStcDArwROB7NQ4mMh7Au7UjbKCBP0vg2e3pgSgLtGQKew?width=800&height=600&cropmode=none)

The little end and crank pin holes were drilled, bored and reamed in a nest in the mill trying hard to keep all four parts close in dimensions:

(https://lbvv2g.dm.files.1drv.com/y4mwtdwzDOaccIcaldMvbo3B630IJfahm9pBVjWZ3wZ6N-DcD1S2WZVR5EqcrkVmVEAqNqT8nuYGGuUOXHg_NjrtszgcNRYNtGwy3n3bu60CLka4-TjEe-_ydlu0EJzlnJtCBmha0-jYC2S8ZCpEbn7ZReajoDe3uCqbfR_SVr8Y-Ahsq5Feuck6RsRT5wnijBT3uzB_BjD3xVK3ZoS0rcO_Q?width=800&height=600&cropmode=none)

The second "distraction" now came into its own for machining circular features into the rod blanks. The 3D printer provided the stepper motor adapter (and the cable cover on the end) and I made an Al fixture to clamp the blanks:

(https://mrxuzq.dm.files.1drv.com/y4m9fwVTY7_6eQT9ObqQgMEsom-cZT9plfUYJ_bpJiKJ5DFGkChiHdj8crgl3Au64CCX1ClGTo-ogD9kZytEiih_M7TkMCuFOg3GV3rouLCihqfQ335gr3dfLsFfb5eFSRHkAo2OM2S3GOBeSXm_ezARjrzUut99Glxaj66KIOvFxAu9rkvlNVJg2r1kA9chwf1b7pqJN6yoDjXLnkD7Wsl8Q?width=450&height=600&cropmode=none)

which allowed a ball ended end mill to produce what will become radii around the two end bosses:

(https://jxvv2g.dm.files.1drv.com/y4mvqn4PlYFycbFHoMy3ip2_HwkDuUgrxeWzmiogjCN9x-Dy78x_0FGUXKH_dbX0ABZHSR8rGEZQ07PPLboRk8w2kYQQLcKxZQiBy7CKFwOIDvmhlnoYX2KQIe2zgSc92HFYduCgU2G_zRYyp5Y8dkd93Pvc9crGDgp2Ajz64jghaWCEUGqKOgBb7w419deFMbrwShBqM_LdxXoSOovgNo5cQ?width=800&height=600&cropmode=none)

One addition to the rotary table software is the ability to swing the table back and forth repeatedly through a precise angle and this was programmed to do the rounding over of the little ends of the rods. The table being set going with the cutter clear of the work and then all I had to do was raise the table to apply the cuts of about 1 mm at a time. The cutter was a new 4 mm carbide tool, and turning at around 3500 RPM. The table swing rate was ~4RPM and the next mod to the software will be to add the precise setting of this rate:

(https://kxxuzq.dm.files.1drv.com/y4mgMpyh02IUf9sq7fZCesc4JrrCFny_fWnTLBXOVq7QX_layB8En0DBqcG3daL5HPHkblCdI7yK7sPSo9dtzAy4jn20eoOxUGNywyQdnVX1kOnP00JcvPqe3wJ9TTy2tthbYPwPVFeYqyeqjvx82HSKm9xhzRjYoy692klunnRkSNJ6R1pbodIfrRREDGS9D96NAMoOWwRzbouLVZd6CzwaQ?width=800&height=600&cropmode=none)

After an additional circular cut to make reducing the rod thickness easier the parts looked like:

(https://kbvv2g.dm.files.1drv.com/y4mjxUxx8SiuovSS_QdacjpakNALcgrCm5BYHnj2BOBr975v-O8ov5VIj5w039MxfdUWgk9k4Ay87Qdz2KVRxDU79tSRFvpGav6MTh6DzVSzTToerel3usP7J3KjksP8aJwdWG5wEbrSDjGSP2R2M7mGP48Ht-hrS07pyGJqeJMvD0QmeHrjjg0RaitLDl1v40qfofg9J5zAVLSqOMaDUl6iw?width=800&height=600&cropmode=none)

One side of the blanks was brought to size and 1:1 copies of the drawings stuck on to guide roughing out by sawing:

(https://krvv2g.dm.files.1drv.com/y4mGWm00cmC1uVfJsyLBm2v1zGiMgyaOfDPEJ8EUDc3mSiUlRE3SFBPzSC22jb3eng11kH_kbQivbSIBfhzJnG2fPD-jfi830PhPb9O5fvW6qFyT6ud-XZULUiMVBMxc72fpWH3bdbJDQq3Eg2iOXssctB1kNj8tZuSbOgScuAftGeiFspEmZa75HuM-33FUDtUelXSxPN7DBpqgZEXXQ4Ecw?width=800&height=600&cropmode=none)
(https://mhxuzq.dm.files.1drv.com/y4mJQrlhsy7MFj398wtcHEY8tkCmmp8Svs445q7TjF0cIv4zUPvq9TgXdw61vfrijh_In1nRy6CaOJ7mTbE3b-sP5bmQ403xauuh5N8CEfhoIuYsPAN5LJBYTXZDJmZqMVGUquV5baGuwYWKzkhyqvqrOkfCnUJa3YshjBNza5yM5HR1Ngsqr8lX7L7GLjKGNWkVBw9dkgwtke1RAvPV6JhZQ?width=800&height=600&cropmode=none)

The finish machining was done after picking up the end and side of the blanks with an edge finder and using the DRO and angular table settings:

(https://lhvv2g.dm.files.1drv.com/y4mdHNdRfAR99NAH2niS76U8gmbgcPTz-WGlj8G0m992ontcZsvM0uURLGgowlUBJa3PFyu8EAqYXa68kjMmSNG6RQd8uXHTjtVTPQNQmttjOG8fStD7rH8783ezc1GSmPoKHHbU9BrCIjkzNstgDPeMAS_Nh6oQ5Om5CBMBJnfmwuLrg45BR1ud0uvdL36nhpvl-OMKbZJ1NrEKPavS-_QhA?width=450&height=600&cropmode=none)

I'll show more when the rods are cleaned up and fitted to the crankshaft.

Regards, David
Title: Re: Len Mason's "Mastiff" - chewed from the solid
Post by: Roger B on May 07, 2018, 12:57:43 PM
Glad to see you back on this build  :) That's some interesting work with the stand alone CNC rotary table  :ThumbsUp:  :ThumbsUp:
Title: Re: Len Mason's "Mastiff" - chewed from the solid
Post by: Kim on May 07, 2018, 05:59:56 PM
That is pretty interesting - you're using the CNC like a auto-feed for the RT, with stops.  I can see that being quite useful!
And you made good use of it on those connecting rods.

Kim
Title: Re: Len Mason's "Mastiff" - chewed from the solid
Post by: deltatango on May 08, 2018, 12:25:53 PM
Roger and Kim, Thanks for the comments.

Apart from being very useful the rotary table is a learning exercise on the way to proper CNC.  I'll probably convert my Sieg X3 mill to CNC, the Aciera F3 (with DRO) is too good a machine to be modified. The "box of tricks" that drives the RT has room for three more stepper motor drivers and the Arduino Mega can run a version of Grbl that can control four axes.

The main problem with the rotary table that I haven't yet solved is measuring and correcting for backlash. There isn't very much but in the "swing" mode it can accumulate.

The final operation on the con rods was to trim the corners off the main bearing caps:

(https://lrvv2g.dm.files.1drv.com/y4mlNiVqiNKRBS4favdGrVbAzGKSSqimQm5ri42U-F4v6AthdJgl2wVaIOphL6Zr8aWNEixdCu-iX98YnctTy5vy7xC5DrdMSD7_O-bZKpN_bPaEbFzvx4fsFEji_EHi3QwMsTReQHHDSAThPer4ywsXhMqNmCCMUQjwRjS0FRoZVap0U1XA6I0TOOZ7yFyDE4g9BB6KkArVFmyoqkOSQA4Yw?width=800&height=600&cropmode=none)

and then adjust their fit to the crankshaft. Just for fun I put the bits together:

(https://kruktw.dm.files.1drv.com/y4mbNkLEmmYLwO35yPy0q5I49m8B0fJzn_OaL1rkb5Ahe7R0QaE0AOYpUYHP7-qHi0GGoME4npH1svegPVKgI8M6_UmZOj3ktOuLeS0jLFbKTHBWvye_q1ahktYj-LLvdOtXCHjECjGA9Zm1hzVGy3LCcUcur1xk1XACXAsuwwf2fZVwD-qKMR5DwVE8b-Xh5PqT0STmc1SQPaLQORJUSTuAA?width=800&height=600&cropmode=none)

Now I can dismantle the lot and build up the crank and parts inside the crankcase. They fit just fine in the CAD model...

DT

Title: Re: Len Mason's "Mastiff" - chewed from the solid
Post by: Admiral_dk on May 08, 2018, 09:08:44 PM
Your parts looks nice  :ThumbsUp: and still following along  :popcorn:

The only simple solution for backlash on the rotary I know off, is to "only move in one direction" - or more correctly when moving the other way, move a bit too far and move forward to the desired point - this also works in the G-code.

A more "involved" possibility is to move the rotary enough forward so you are sure any backlash is taken up, place long pointer in the "jaws" as a "clock hand" and place a dial-indicator against it, reset indicator. Now do single steps the other way and count how many it takes before the dial moves => this is the amount that you can use as a compensation factor in the firmware.

Neither of these methods are as good as a backlash free gear, but they do come close enough for a good number of uses.

Best wish

Per
Title: Re: Len Mason's "Mastiff" - chewed from the solid
Post by: Ramon on May 08, 2018, 09:18:09 PM
Good to see you making more progress David - if there's one thing I can relate to though it's distractions  ;)

Nice work on the crank and rods  :ThumbsUp: :ThumbsUp:

Regards - Tug
Title: Re: Len Mason's "Mastiff" - chewed from the solid
Post by: kuhncw on May 08, 2018, 09:40:42 PM
DT,

Nice work on the rods.  I like your rotary table modification and the way you used it.

Chuck
Title: Re: Len Mason's "Mastiff" - chewed from the solid
Post by: deltatango on May 10, 2018, 01:05:19 PM
Per, Ramon and Chuck - Thanks for the kind words! Much appreciated.

I guess the ultimate solution to the backlash problem would be a real Aciera rotary table but even if they still exist I doubt I'd want to pay the asking. Even my lovely  Aciera simple dividing head has a tiny amount of lost motion but it is probably well over 50 years old.
As it is I'll follow Per's suggestion and measure the number of steps of lost motion and burn this into the firmware. Per's mention of G-code made me think that I might abandon the special purpose firmware and get Grbl working with just the A-axis.

Thanks again -  David
Title: Re: Len Mason's "Mastiff" - chewed from the solid
Post by: Art K on May 10, 2018, 04:22:04 PM
David,
Distractions are a part of life. The rods look great. The use of a rotary table simplifies life when doing round ends on rods. When you have the Sieg X3 set up as a cnc you will do things totally different. I have had a Tormach mill for about 10 years and every time I use it is a learning experience.
Art
Title: Re: Len Mason's "Mastiff" - chewed from the solid
Post by: steamer on May 10, 2018, 07:46:41 PM
Per, Ramon and Chuck - Thanks for the kind words! Much appreciated.

I guess the ultimate solution to the backlash problem would be a real Aciera rotary table but even if they still exist I doubt I'd want to pay the asking. Even my lovely  Aciera simple dividing head has a tiny amount of lost motion but it is probably well over 50 years old.
As it is I'll follow Per's suggestion and measure the number of steps of lost motion and burn this into the firmware. Per's mention of G-code made me think that I might abandon the special purpose firmware and get Grbl working with just the A-axis.

Thanks again -  David

Just saw a F1 table on the "Bay",,,,  $2500
Title: Re: Len Mason's "Mastiff" - chewed from the solid
Post by: b.lindsey on May 11, 2018, 01:21:29 AM
Just getting caught up again and things are looking great. Good to see you back on this project.

Bill
Title: Re: Len Mason's "Mastiff" - chewed from the solid
Post by: deltatango on May 26, 2018, 08:22:28 AM
Thanks Steamer - I've occasionally seen F1 tables (and machines) at what look like ridiculous prices, F3s are easy enough to find 2nd hand in Europe but still very expensive. F3 accessories seem to be down there with hen's teeth and rocking horse droppings. A couple of weeks ago I did find 13 W20 collets and a centre for the dividing head via Gumtree for a reasonable price.

Before I could try out the fit of the crank, con rods and pistons I had to cut the clearances for the rods in the cylinder liners:

(https://u3ctoq.dm.files.1drv.com/y4mBoD_3Ug20CsW-x34LWIVWpa_djosu38zeUd6v-amBSYcffJ7lGr9xdP0O0AU-Rf2I17IOFuZfynicEFAKeY8_6fR4rcIxuTU0oIaKYxWnAoHnhaYXjcS1EyIIcaEGwqFlyCzTC26Ws7ZZNAavGbA0L_NaKXbK7q8EwC4OyXbKFF1VjHCjXh1WRm5QREplabwgtwotWFPWX0G1X4yOER7sw?width=800&height=600&cropmode=none)

and could then put everything together and test. It was all very tight but everything rotated quite smoothly and without interferences, great! I thought until I went to fit the crankshaft timing gear. Anyone who is familiar with the Mastiff can look at the earlier picture of the crank laid out with all the attached bits and work out what I'd done wrong - I'd numbered the crank pins from the wrong end of the crank. This lead to some cursing and then more careful thought, swapping the appropriate con rods (pistons are each lapped to their own cylinders, can't swap those) minimised the amount of extra fitting that was needed and things began to go smoothly again.

Time now to go back and make a new port-side cylinder head to replace the earlier scrapper that was written off when a cutter pulled out of the collet and cut a neat hole joining the water space to the combustion chamber. This time around I had the benefit of the DRO (whatever time you spend fitting this kit is going to be repaid many times over, if you don't have one on the mill - fit it!) and a new precision vice. Copies of the drawings printed at 1:1 were glued on as a sanity check but the actual dimensions were picked from the edge of the work and the vice jaws:

(https://u3asxq.dm.files.1drv.com/y4mRvwFa1oOgC6heMiNTL_AAvklpjK_YhUyPRzSN0Ljx3Rprwi6intXBfDkRlpiu5ZCbPa93rhd1fNC7wte152hUX0ojq1P3pu3m27Zt_bFfK4yqxRGGmI_FKKFXKZAUFum4pZrb-QYFioNnyK8NgTYZm2HZCz7jv4ErgH2nMRUJOzvGOKfdjMTEfS6vbGdP65kMWznMoUc3qyHJTOhhrvvMA?width=800&height=600&cropmode=none)

holes drilled, and the water space milled out with 3, 4 and 6 mm cutters.

(https://wnasxq.dm.files.1drv.com/y4mvD1HsLkYO6IN1hN_JMCw9nuFWn2T-NxP2mWaj9veohH5iMalymBUgd1G9fzw2DKMe-OZsTMCIwuc1S00njlBkR9N2Pg-tZ6fgIbPkDYb7gnbYeV1CM9lgRbIr84c0TR3LN9SnabP-KJq81TFQOX1-SCz1qPztu0NdPFigbTBYlV1IXKzIci-Reu9fXrnCTW5l4KyOfFWhjNaGNfM5N74vg?width=800&height=600&cropmode=none)

The last act on this side of the head was to round off the spark plug bosses on the rotary table:

(https://vxctoq.dm.files.1drv.com/y4msRQpOB6MVL8T8Gl8pr_Ko1SpAkc2mGreCxRscNrpcUFkdiVSkO1k8Z6dmzNK4OS53U8mux2EcjRFU6daaC4kjUPHX5fmseLH_KjVTa0wAYQVIiLkjdTAW_r62nfmhO4DhS5E5nqEbr8J3yOLZOdN8vE5C88T38AvyI5CH88g1p2BsyfKV1mWDnK5YJQuUbvGhiL5WBUYXfNH5d5k0i2MuQ?width=800&height=600&cropmode=none)

The combustion chamber side followed using the same approach:

(https://wxasxq.dm.files.1drv.com/y4m5P_Zz1w5SpJWRkkk2po5pno7L9_OHCYWHA9ejCXwtM7z6lzVgidRnqZoC-j4rZdmXMBGnK5uOkvxU4xxgEbqy5rAnvP_sTjNqLOob-6GzqJT6hex6cIGn-fNnqHeDH_NIY1oy39f18xI9UMTheVdvtdWIWL_85dKEZ0kj9kDhbyzqusisiY3pGSJOBVlU95mwUi4n7aETzeQLdEFcEEPvg?width=800&height=600&cropmode=none)

(https://uhctoq.dm.files.1drv.com/y4mIhD3QrPBmV_f3hpa-to6CzeKdop1g2p92xalGn-s_FD9-ubKyLpQWbdFxKYnKVSSjk-mXtGGzLCWUMI-88ryuB7QVCT9D_3AfnUmOMWHFCbyIjJPNCNNu6WP59FDnO94ENh98VHYV9ybQ7-yo4Flki9jDPDpJ-tu3Mt3Gys4pAPhwYQGDKYAe4yvXR-I5Rjpsxs-iipyHPCveTgQdoHqew?width=800&height=600&cropmode=none)

using a boring head to clean up the rounded end:

(https://vnctoq.dm.files.1drv.com/y4mugV9amd6VVHdW8-ZEvLfux7FrnENyleHclr4oJJpIAzYqlWmyZADBRHjpOE7i1MuI4AyLJGUdX0bmnAF-5S6AWrvNyGwxjGFAAyP4E6nOaOEIzIESzcVcrIZ1eVMSosWs1Gk0fRkRn86Nacvwrm3dH_mlli3NK-Lt9DJz68XEw2DzUgpM9xYh5aq9BBhm54i7bajJuyhiNwtNtLd71eimA?width=800&height=600&cropmode=none)

The slope between the valve clearance and the space above the pistons was formed with the work in a sine vice (more new kit that really simplified the process):

(https://t3ctoq.dm.files.1drv.com/y4mCKO6ZlRjncqzApI015g-TSNBV8loR1ObZCHi5-ThwcawAgm6Lv-cNSHvCeLlTsPmVLkpUiuFbdrfLjolDFY-8l1fFRZjNsDUb_r80QOcraVyl77WtnDqRf8Q1NiEenF37j5GRq6oAHc5a8pVF8Swba9sdhd05FpwWcVogHIMqhKFSqAPN6qfub0pZZfjzZNoLgYaWcGGziFkGiQcdBayUA?width=800&height=600&cropmode=none)

The last act was to drill and tap for the water outlet fitting and it was time to admire the part and breath a sigh of relief.

(https://vhctoq.dm.files.1drv.com/y4mQwqkzyWWEZ0etJvu1LYT4I29b89vO2fvQGAh80KTjPwUeYUMflhwLARGjJNjS0xD-ig6p-IdESzewz5PKQoRIoz77LCe6dL-M_LqbCbDQorW2Ez-qAHWtQYYlsvJq9KzusWtFp9kRwMo_FTdvJVKi8dXyKu7okj7aByCx_S7Ln6YjSDGIW-guCDCkDMtL_NR8MkGbhOoiXI9zBBWAZH87A?width=800&height=600&cropmode=none)
(https://unctoq.dm.files.1drv.com/y4m2ncnj5Tep61chkeg3e4bbdLfcfMTqnomjGy0h7aBPTasX4uFewG-AnGNNbXDnbi99VHywPIMJgVccXc46G9OqeQzTE3q5sYke1IqPlzV3sKxrwRDxeDiQodWp9I0n6O63ZmNXtfsf3eQxD98bGfAAUNOg6dAUIC3MHbRli-BgDJzKCsxEidU5BHfK0ZBkwf_pTJlhXajjioBV1pukF7j9w?width=800&height=600&cropmode=none)

Now I can glue the covers on and move on from the bludners to having something that is starting to look like an engine.

Regards. David






Title: Re: Len Mason's "Mastiff" - chewed from the solid
Post by: deltatango on June 04, 2018, 09:03:58 AM
Moving forwards with the build but backwards on the engine I finished off the group of components that mount on the crankshaft behind the rear main bearing. These are a little oil thrower, a cover, the flywheel, flywheel collet nut and washer and the starting pulley.The flywheel was from a stub of 3" FCMS that only needed skimming to thickness and cleaning up on the diameter. After that I set over the top slide to 5 degrees for machining the mounting hole and collet:

(https://wxctoq.dm.files.1drv.com/y4mTIW_0w4TZdoOLmajAzZ5xDSgqlxf2Of-khJ8uWd0rbrpR9zpyxKooZ2wPh29kAeFLl9HLpygGsBgXwcQLemvMeu3RdQChSkQTc6TJCfriz6uE0O96fDebmWYxCLCp-KGGT8s8fvytuGfleIUFA_VqXk-bNwqPHGcWL_WiXQJm7g-VRESoQXry85YHcepVWxFslkAHpQtB7j-lTFzySHTlg?width=800&height=600&cropmode=none)

and machined the collet from bar stock:

(https://i87lfa.dm.files.1drv.com/y4m7UL34PEGY1m-2GT26tb0jRCOSHl6RtRug_v0rTSZlliB0mGwiGhyBng7Rq9Ef8VcT8iN0t_RQ_s1L1Atp_LdfwMpgodalkkgPkYXLW5GhhHl08FjGsDPjKgaWhS56bKrKedazY7AtamrALT3AUymXKjrxPgc42Vw76w5l9TImNDvGu1npbactO7U72zNP5xttdUdpdO4_ePJvOu9V3DZ8Q?width=800&height=600&cropmode=none)

(https://is4wca.dm.files.1drv.com/y4mkcYzsURpobva5tXGcjBrBRfHS9Vd1yleFvLEf1aizU4FA_XLwt3Az_PxblmjQJWLHXMG0stXVeV-jW2L7goduL8axgclR8te34Ma_7FHRewum-8BU-okeu9HEwp2yl9dGPxyv7EGGsfYHR-dnvjgrLpAhav9xKHRxfeHAu8xsdFR1SdhQ8vAYGjgwliQM2RWxXYOfHYMefXuJn3DVCntVg?width=800&height=600&cropmode=none)

With the top slide now back to parallel I dug out the grove in the flywheel face by alternating between a trepanning tool and a boring bar:

(https://j84wca.dm.files.1drv.com/y4mpvrHgPnRtp3g4eEWqwwHXbE6KUI3Om81XwEz_ZjZpzaI7Nlk3t8GrWXTJWvhRt6DYPvch42ddKBMwu7kCuHEp4L66uW_6l3VmpYDpIQDnkjuXFSTYyG4qdYDb2aBWai4D9JJshjgENY-kBBNFzJGcVJD6OfAC55ko348SokQ4fXuxDgd_gmeT5v-IrkQccwAQpSkwBxAYhVEPMJXPQZGcw?width=800&height=600&cropmode=none)

(https://im4wca.dm.files.1drv.com/y4m77sokM1QOcu4EBjEgr-DyuF1cfTT2DBpdZDeLM7jjz3k6dbGuA0W0fDv8tK2Id0oWnfyG-Y05vJpcW65QMX-n4e-Bip2u-x8mBg4JfHbBhN8uOgAq2dv0_y9M4bMwt8gljKWsYmq6DvGD_6s76eMIwbJkwpF6uEBWAdZRwigcAAzwQVI2EwMAQXMwlOb6GJGDeqn4BcPWOLMowrjpLu_iA?width=800&height=600&cropmode=none)

The starting pulley came from an Al stub and the Diamond tool holders, and the 4-jaw SC chuck, really shine at this sort of job:

(https://ic4wca.dm.files.1drv.com/y4mktFLsou25Fl59k1FdLN9rEQ92zKuPUguBcMZwE2aIzIFb-8VMbPNTZmQHwUZyM9FU1xZ6sSSkW1uKIcvd25jqp5G0_dBjoUfAtiSG8MoECUUYZenUTjwTnFhSYrRtN39HZWFarY90FmKGuih3e5QdYhsdP0QaImVTKLgZh-fSsS9H1OUMTWiYDySAAoGVsa3s8vrwl3FwfZafBIn0bo1RQ?width=800&height=600&cropmode=none)

after boring to size the part went onto an expanding mandrel to finish the outer diameters and cut the cord groove:

(https://jc4wca.dm.files.1drv.com/y4mdFlQ9UuJDy1SBWbnH5eyq5Hcw8mwFWM0u9uQvR2uBo4an073jBsykcf6V6frnDdfpU5Cx4NtlIYXnTq-zgsJHXDUv0F6IfhAj8n9Dh3q5L-E6IBtBQJi4bwUJt1WcqBUZ-NfhZyprPbew9ivCxXAg6i7gnwd6JilaWzx598T5-JVAyUeD2qrqfF1y04DKgRcI_mPRPKfng8NxiZ0NT6zEw?width=800&height=600&cropmode=none)

and lastly the mounting holes and cord hooks:

(https://jm4wca.dm.files.1drv.com/y4mhg1w6hYw7IXzpfIUorGGr6ZO_5KX9BTeNaor_Cno5p7GfXOX5djXMl5un9tJg6ZJ3xwQkzRgYiPSB1sPmHIrLJF22q0oEj8LcBeq5N6r6Z__pKAD2wOEx_4wP4AS-B3hvlpsDcDkNvGpT39LfGmjvInqX7x8Da8qVKj_vkoah93xkk1BwM4R5-z4ojXiv5cRJsPL1F7n7rXZs93sNG6y8A?width=800&height=600&cropmode=none)

Most of the original billet ended up like:

(https://js4wca.dm.files.1drv.com/y4mViTkoKu635V-BXkAN2iJwBCmaH8Vg40ERvK49PZvz_xhuekoOVsk3zLD1UZZLKBZ9Sy7hmU43IBPcuYtV7kNUZK6q7lFqqBiZS3APRYB2b5UUZiOM9L01cu0gVCK0Ps_dGaGIG0a058bJV__YB2IwruKy9LEnejuK7rRFS98VFhyhfQj-MTuq5jsd3BTNJwCHWyOChyvYKk5hRqSKtGMUg?width=450&height=600&cropmode=none)

plus a bucket full of smaller swarf.

The little family:

(https://k84wca.dm.files.1drv.com/y4mNEukGg-WpdIDnawiFbBP2tjEAq7hslhTRFZQAAGZU6wTUxcOE9NlVPMXE5tIyHx_WcWyvcffa_ngf-BTCrRFe197CwQb9cvw8j103IgQLB63IejwolJ3ul3tUOaoYQrGRl0YXUFebuG2HtpdB0z7k8RSVeKisPXVWwxFxgkhB8IYyaTJ-Gm4kdzO2JvGhrMfx98Xpc9FhZ7i7dMWYfLGsg?width=800&height=600&cropmode=none)

The tapped holes in the flywheel serve both to fasten the starting pulley and for use with a simple puller if the wheel gets too tight on the taper collet.

All screwed together on the engine:

(https://ks4wca.dm.files.1drv.com/y4mEo-e5BrVn57KYM7WzRrFOlMWFkpN6_pOblSxhAFo5TiMqaR3i1jTklxVg58cXt1s1vBpJc3fP0y1B9cBC7cdhrPZiQnnQKGMo_5ZF-j1PAnGHAz0JUnAxkD14pSJdIrB46fY0mueQ9_572FoOlo0gpXXEAhkOgqUm3I30xWUSEMpVdaOeTQgbmD-jjl4ikHVvzRD3z4olFkfNgZrZIndzQ?width=800&height=600&cropmode=none)

The next jobs are to make the manifolds and smooth off the cylinder blocks and heads.

David
Title: Re: Len Mason's "Mastiff" - chewed from the solid
Post by: Roger B on June 25, 2018, 07:41:40 PM
Coming along well  :ThumbsUp:  :ThumbsUp: Plenty of swarf  :)
Title: Re: Len Mason's "Mastiff" - chewed from the solid
Post by: Craig DeShong on June 26, 2018, 12:18:24 AM
I'm just getting up to speed on this build.  Great looking project  :ThumbsUp: and another opportunity to make mountains of swarf.  Looking forward to successive posts.  :popcorn:
Title: Re: Len Mason's "Mastiff" - chewed from the solid
Post by: zeeprogrammer on June 26, 2018, 12:38:18 AM
Yep. I'm looking forward to the next post.
Title: Re: Len Mason's "Mastiff" - chewed from the solid
Post by: deltatango on June 26, 2018, 03:04:34 AM
Craig, Roger and Zee - thanks for the encouragement, it really helps to know that people are following along!

The two manifolds (combined inlet and exhaust) didn't generate anything like as much swarf in volume but there were a lot of little bits of Al stuck to the mill with WD40. Also some little bits of carbide from the two 2 mm cutters that died in the first attempt at the fins.

Here is what I was aiming for:

(https://i86c2g.dm.files.1drv.com/y4m-dOJKcdPIjlHOZgXn35iWbSyjhuLPkcxJvlTQoHeIYU5Y5PhiVZS_dUpC-XCHGJLGbvizou-JeqZHfAN1vwDfa3u-FBq2wpihP0AJWOBkehXB-mjObkwwGr90HG6mcplu322vGKyaSDkEVrLCgwe_3p3SUz0fy0SMn17-B7qYifFrNPc0r8GuPcoSaCEJyxrmioTsR7pMzNLLIhLwT2tug?width=1347&height=987&cropmode=none)

The exported images from Alibre aren't the best so I've attached a .pdf as well.

The manifolds started as two bits of unknown alloy which turned out to be both soft and sticky. After milling to size and turning the exhaust outlets the bits looked like:

(https://k85m8q.dm.files.1drv.com/y4mKGEJVn-ojgzBjk4JiK3YhXqnXGkKhYp71yen7rKhNFLlFy7pCMJRFejeXlLRLrNB8jTxrzyMZpynOT1UniDCsR0uhvmZKLKJjJYicVfwFGX3jngaGIpUY3XIFYMnO7X7Ld0OqwMTknNKt_gWCv31pFQWRr0GLWaFxVBoSIRrGnzVBXyWBElpzoiI5RbLlZSGrmwj3b1m80DWPCXTfcqx-w?width=800&height=600&cropmode=none)

Note the labelling, handed pieces like these have caught me out in the past!  The various passages were drilled or milled to size:

(https://is4bzg.dm.files.1drv.com/y4m-m2rCPEgWjRNAQTRKD8_Ymz5c_UmXKPI4zijd5NeG2L4O-JzBV_6l0gSw3Lre6rQBw0k1_ztX3AJQYnVSzWZLMsJ5Es9OwAuU4lOK2UivjkI3bJ_IsZYz8NxvHZO3LeuMZDw9nMhvRnOiLBXa9ZeOLLWPYdGIi-3IxYIzLUCYCWMUTAfL7Id5IVU3_JbtUBaN_OWWBpiFogXLw5LPezK9A?width=800&height=600&cropmode=none)

(https://i84bzg.dm.files.1drv.com/y4mF3Dw--PBuuaVQ6YPQnbu_4tZdmI54zJZlfB6FSZzSgLqz_JyBdln8HoQy8BmG6Pg2X2E_5e2drmNZVFX4_zU3HX_y9eexETLVBXP23fiWFjd82-cFXVTy00RfwLqgbkwVhQtBVORnSowuVM-91723mv2xFJ0axejm6EAWZb_iMEHfHlRQJepPPQKT9KAJXAU2P2TdxzP9doOOiF4ny04VQ?width=800&height=600&cropmode=none)

The burrs raised by the cutters seemed to be work-hardened as it was difficult to get rid of them without damaging the remaining surface. The exhaust passages were connected via cross-drillings that needed blanking plugs in brass:

(https://ks5m8q.dm.files.1drv.com/y4mU3egqIFM8SpeNcAZ5VPqjqsnCA_qOdAHStkOxYZHnC5Q11LivQHSxSJEotsjF3leJtxK4y4t5lGRByE9-ijOXxV47jZSF4mrwslZsG1sQKSTEO-PNBad1KMiJHPp1LriZCh8uWVgWXwKQn2RyhddUP1WuO170iyTWlpA2cBG3__4H15lOoiM-0lJFyM-4Q9TPjzWJbNLh7g0K4wYqSf_EQ?width=800&height=600&cropmode=none)

With these fitted temporarily the bits were ready for the fins to be cut. On the starboard one you can see where the card that was supposed to be protecting the work from the chuck jaws has slipped without me noticing:

(https://im4bzg.dm.files.1drv.com/y4mVbdMzpmFi4cva-ELL6La5XYty2hSAwfjV40IUi6aD6bfWXp7CToHRI7eftWQG43I3bkhtofVjiV-bZEB5QokG9weDbBr-BkfbOenXPAU3PSozWQs6FP0nywzDnLW_58bxJcRGf8uJTjiNbqRi0PN93GhdOktWf2IQ4uaJQT9Jk7WN48kp0d3JiyTJM7aSxgEVUMV7c3BKmpNCLn_Bw0R2Q?width=800&height=600&cropmode=none)

Drawing the fins in the computer was easy, cutting them required more work than I anticipated. Its no use the shop floor cursing the drawing office here!
The first plan was to run a 2 mm cutter (of a type advertised for working ally) in the Aciera high speed head and make quick passes, first to clear the middle then each side to form the slopes.  In less awkward material this might work but the fine swarf just clogged the cut and wouldn't wash out quickly enough. Two cutters later I decided to make a form tool.

This came out of gauge plate and the teeth were formed with the Aciera dividing head driven from the stepper motor system I described in an earlier post:

(https://j84bzg.dm.files.1drv.com/y4mjoWvgn4XIiWBLEGlkGZO021xGp-JO2xtqijPYQqkDHlxRMBsYYglfHsqfbabyp4SqtA0HT34ZAJDYS32HjDiMGBrzzP4o0I3GoYAjOWXg2A8-CnCgXlZcdQx1KydfKmRrGFF4Se-PyVgOss845C2d72n6mC15FkXfuLQMk0Hr_x8u_rYKXlwEiJQPBBu9Z1YvuhsrHllZs0vZhl2a_4qyA?width=800&height=600&cropmode=none)

After an early scare the vice was added to make sure the work couldn't slip on the mandrel and 14 teeth roughed out with a 6 mm ball-ended cutter:

(https://js4bzg.dm.files.1drv.com/y4miW8iupymnkHbYxE4pETJUfp1P1pqG4xrx7W-ea-42530ZGX2lqTs9Z09HfQBykemBmGVPUiR-ADHWwldL7zSb0CiVvhWwHIU3sA8W8pUwIvjFUIUTT2ZEhDV8W-96LRKZ1SoZ8SAw-0HnsOe08pJH7SqdrunbRkVqzpCDPlkEt3lYgwBs3LZtDxjFiAJae5zB8YVC-GiYFRLsLxvyfnGeg?width=800&height=600&cropmode=none)

and the major backing off done:

(https://jc4bzg.dm.files.1drv.com/y4m-jyS-BZM4oxSSzFsw3BYP6v4dR0oOe4eljtJFAS3kZGRlLn7VrDqCRcS_vP1FVNb73RihOZ0J-jLsfZmSZTgoEnr9-ih93OkNygwkWmiySFNK4nQB1LpHWHB3GD72v-wCb8kqRQsuschBSfPRPinJi8gYPu5Lztq3RYZ4bZxn_ftqEpfRPt5abCw-73pIc6sd2eQLjJIkQ3cmvxwbopG_A?width=800&height=600&cropmode=none)

Based on previous experience the steel was left un-hardened. The tips were ground with an 8 degree rake but the sides were left alone. Three 1 mm deep cuts followed by two at 0.5 got each fin groove to depth without drama. The lack of relief on the sides of the cutter meant that the finish wasn't perfect but was acceptable:

(https://jm4bzg.dm.files.1drv.com/y4mrfyhmlgD2OX2NG4EQxWs4ROKhFjvCQir3RDpXeKFMOFM4izwnDhMyvMS-pmc0P18YrLewPej6z580MS2bL0z9h9pcL54u49X0byKWuZlwXVrjAayAZdsPSg5NnSuh0XqIZSC3rqPsFumvF6rRwRm17hn5j9sRQXx8IX0aDY3O-gbKiV2heoxUo3-FygvCVf-OdJzdebotRZcCdl_Rr2wUQ?width=800&height=600&cropmode=none)

(https://k84bzg.dm.files.1drv.com/y4m5h4bo9pxS5WdL1dXpfk5cXcrPYRgtYT7qTmIh9DC8P9pVxhSbUQ0h-RihsWzTL-klU2tEwO7-zUKi5hjIrVLN6nbjw-LRArTBcOc1k8dPmDKF4-wuaFii8_80a2OGoMs9avRv5eiexSvtwLatZKSyjaWaiMVDAYZ8Wt1dUxFbyGExrP9pX6_tGB_l5iI5VvW1qA3Zh31UbbklS1MmL3ahQ?width=464&height=600&cropmode=none)

The blanking plugs have been fixed with JB Weld and I can move on to tidying up the blocks and heads to their final external  shapes.

David

Title: Re: Len Mason's "Mastiff" - chewed from the solid
Post by: Ramon on June 26, 2018, 10:57:18 AM
Good to see more progress on this David  - excellent swarf making  :D and real nice work on that cutter with a good result too :ThumbsUp: :ThumbsUp:

Is this going to be too heavy to bring on your next trip over ? - just musing of course  ;)

Any news on the Corliss?

Regards - Tug

Title: Re: Len Mason's "Mastiff" - chewed from the solid
Post by: deltatango on June 26, 2018, 12:10:59 PM
Thanks Ramon, any cooling fins designed in the future are likely to use that form cutter. If necessary it might even get hardened but I'd back off the sides before doing that. However, by eye at least, there isn't any wear so far.

Currently Mastiff weighs in at 3.4 kg (just popped it onto the kitchen scales) and almost all of the heavy bits are already there so weight won't be a problem. More of a problem is with being able to guarantee (to the airlines) that an engine that has been run is free of flammables. If anyone who has done this has comments I'd like to hear them - I may be making a mountain out of a Mastiff.

Nothing at all from Bob P - might have to jog his memory.

Regards, David
Title: Re: Len Mason's "Mastiff" - chewed from the solid
Post by: b.lindsey on June 26, 2018, 01:01:51 PM
That cutter did a fine job David!  A little fine sanding should clean up any surface imperfections though they don't show in the pictures. Very nice!!

Bill
Title: Re: Len Mason's "Mastiff" - chewed from the solid
Post by: deltatango on June 26, 2018, 01:21:50 PM
Thanks Bill, I can try sanding and there may be other methods (chemical etching??).

I'm still not sure what the final finish on the whole engine will be, the manifolds might take a coat of matt black high temp paint which would hide the slight roughness but I'm not sure it would stick well enough. Automotive engine block enamel might do the trick for the rest of the engine. The only full size engine I've seen that was anything like Mastiff was a Coventry Climax flat four in a speed boat that was painted green, probably from a 1940's or 50's firepump.

Regards, David
Title: Re: Len Mason's "Mastiff" - chewed from the solid
Post by: Ramon on June 26, 2018, 02:19:23 PM
Hi David - hadn't thought about the 'flammables' part especially getting it back in to Aus  :-\

Re finishing - are you aware of the abrasive filled rubber blocks? Initially made by 'Garryflex' similar products are made by others now. Four grades - coarse, med, fine and super fine, in combination with wet and dry paper and paraffin they work extremely well on putting a nice smooth finish on ali without producing a polished 'shine'

A search of 'Garryflex Blocks' will soon find you some ;)

Regards - Tug
Title: Re: Len Mason's "Mastiff" - chewed from the solid
Post by: jadge on June 26, 2018, 03:49:37 PM
Looking good, I really like the fin cutter.  :ThumbsUp:

I don't think you need worry too much about side relief. As soon as the tooth moves upwards and out of the slot then you've got relief anyway. It looks a pretty rigid setup; being lazy I think I'd have tried cutting the fins in one pass?

Andrew
Title: Re: Len Mason's "Mastiff" - chewed from the solid
Post by: deltatango on June 27, 2018, 12:19:13 AM
Ramon - thanks for the hint re Garryflex. So far I've only found them listed as "Out of Stock" with the local industrial suppliers, will keep searching as they sound like something worth trying. One finish I really don't want is "shiny".

Andrew, glad you like it! Yes, I agree about the side relief, but I suspect that the slight scoring on the side surfaces may have been from swarf being trapped. I don't have flood coolant on the mill which would probably solve this. The little Aciera F3 is stiff enough for small things but it is very old and has some wear; I chose the depth of by the amount of vibration I could tolerate.  On a Bridgeport I'm pretty sure a single pass would work.

David
Title: Re: Len Mason's "Mastiff" - chewed from the solid
Post by: Art K on June 27, 2018, 02:23:51 AM
David,
You're making great progress. I wouldn't have made the cutter myself. But then my Tormach has much different limitations than your Aciera. Mine would be the stiffness of the (Praxis) high speed attachment. Great work.
Art
Title: Re: Len Mason's "Mastiff" - chewed from the solid
Post by: deltatango on June 27, 2018, 02:48:48 AM
Thanks Art, I love the Aciera but I envy you the Tormach! I doubt I'll be able to justify the cost of any of their products but a conversion of my Sieg X3 is on the list of things to do.

Regards, David
Title: Re: Len Mason's "Mastiff" - chewed from the solid
Post by: Art K on June 27, 2018, 05:21:44 AM
David,
The Tormach was investment I made after my mom passed away. Otherwise I'd have looked at other alternatives. I have made upgrades so it's now considered a series II. When I got it home and found out what the high speed spindle kit was I never used it till I was working on VAL. Should have done that earlier. :wallbang: 20,000 rpm with a 1/16th end mill makes a lot more things possible. At some point I'd like to get the newer speeder spindle that will use an ER series collet, and a cutter larger than 1/16 shank endmill. The best thing about CNC is that I can machine parts I don't have the ability to do otherwise, like what George does. My die maker friend says, oh that's  simple geometry. Never was that good with math.
Art
Title: Re: Len Mason's "Mastiff" - chewed from the solid
Post by: john mills on June 27, 2018, 07:33:28 AM
Art
I did't do much good at maths i think i got about 30 for math b in 5th form then latter spent 20 years wearing out calculators working out geometry for CNC programs no cad  or cad cam at work.yes most of it ends up simple triangle to work out.
Title: Re: Len Mason's "Mastiff" - chewed from the solid
Post by: Art K on June 27, 2018, 05:46:56 PM
John,
The same friend gave me his copy of Mathematics at Work, Third Edition by Holbrook L. Horton guess I've got some studying to do. :) A few years back I returned to school & took algebra for the first time since HS, got B's. So I know I can do it if I apply myself.
Art
Title: Re: Len Mason's "Mastiff" - chewed from the solid
Post by: jadge on June 28, 2018, 08:34:54 PM
The little Aciera F3 is stiff enough for small things but it is very old and has some wear; I chose the depth of by the amount of vibration I could tolerate.  On a Bridgeport I'm pretty sure a single pass would work.

I wonder if the vibration was caused by an incorrect (too low) feedrate? When I started with my horizontal mill I managed to get the whole thing vibrating; and it weighs nearly two tons. Simply by increasing the feedrate the vibration went away completely.

Although I have a Tormach I'd have probably still made a cutter and used the horizontal mill. The only difference is that I would have used the Tormach to make the cutter, so relief is built into the CAD model. Although it's only cutting aluminium I would have hardened and tempered the cutter.

Andrew
Title: Re: Len Mason's "Mastiff" - chewed from the solid
Post by: deltatango on June 28, 2018, 10:33:39 PM
Thanks Andrew, I'm cleaning up the outsides of the Mastiff blocks with the vertical head right now. When that's done (tomorrow?) I'll put the overarm back on and experiment with feeds. I have made a few cutters in the past that I hardened and the cutting edges on those are probably sharper but it is just one more thing to go wrong...

Ramon, I've ordered the Garryflex blocks from Proops Bros, the local suppliers don't carry the very fine ones - thanks again for that tip. Also ordered some sheets of Klingersil for gaskets.

David
Title: Re: Len Mason's "Mastiff" - chewed from the solid
Post by: deltatango on July 03, 2018, 01:36:22 AM
Art, hang in there with the maths! Sue teaches maths at RMIT in Melbourne and some of the students that come in to their "drop-in" student support service haven't studied for 10 years or more and most of them get their diplomas and degrees. Having a local consultant can be very handy!

Andrew, I had a go at cutting a fin (space) in a single pass:

(https://ic6c2g.dm.files.1drv.com/y4mu7LaxqqEomKukSD-xLtegcDcGOeLy6WJNeJiTtBBgUDmZGvCe6bmxJ_pq--rv1JLyeyOJXaYPEu3FoGTvoY5MIxdnEmzs7nwidayjCWvw1juN-2pZJdvYrQT_dinyiZPDP8--yCoUO7SbIwvnnOP61JBR6Ca7qVqH3TuNd0rXYWqWyU_jURVcZt8Bywae8xyYzWgwTLHFYhxUjCQxLyvSg?width=800&height=600&cropmode=none)

and it worked fine as long as the work was tightly clamped (took this as a reason to make 4 proper clamps for the vice). I haven't experimented much with feed rates. At the start of the cut (when the teeth were hitting the vertical face of the work) there was a bit of vibration but it smoothed out once the cut was established.

On Mastiff I've milled off the 90 degree corners on the heads and blocks to make the appearance a bit less brutal:

(https://is6c2g.dm.files.1drv.com/y4m-f74CyoVLpqTPMzmHZUwko_CYusDsbni-GajBabcZ1UesQK6QNtwQiAxb7P75c1nAZ3UbQOfB22CPliS4MWDvJxnFhGx_D8Q8bPMJ4gHVpdwN-HyJFJgnmZSx7v-a8LYiexZGYcK2QPlITWgPLN0sjrOrdvdSbk9ezGwHCDGTBQOWY7x6sUysGV8wKILI1ENg1W9rS41MjDCf-bJb8VvNg?width=800&height=600&cropmode=none)

then reassembled everything, including fitting the piston rings:

(https://im6c2g.dm.files.1drv.com/y4m-_nwliPA38G_9JAOoyoqjw7fCUTGVm5UbTV634VF4oAL9pDyjWIM4NXlN1gEeguAv0za8XJi7mVjtOiIQw5ZWD-BXpmAZa_Vo4XDhBeNcrehAbSUjRyLhYqdaf9UItx8EUY9vKiiZcwlw31je6H4U3gZ_yQ3cbz1FFbeO-3Rz_N5-OJyvRLW8ERxDmXxHfs1Eu8FmRUC2CU3X0bvAL14XA?width=800&height=600&cropmode=none)

Mastiff was very tight at the start but spinning the engine over with a cordless drill quickly started freeing it up. I won't do too much more of that until I've coupled up the lubrication system.

Next will be the ignition system bits.

David
Title: Re: Len Mason's "Mastiff" - chewed from the solid
Post by: Roger B on July 11, 2018, 08:23:13 PM
Looking good  :praise2:  :praise2:  :wine1:
Title: Re: Len Mason's "Mastiff" - chewed from the solid
Post by: deltatango on July 12, 2018, 01:49:04 PM
Thanks Roger, its good to know someone is watching!

I haven't had any notifications of topics I'm following and didn't get one for your message, I'm having to look through the topics individually. Wonder if one of the old problems has recurred?

Currently I'm making the fiddly little bits for the contact breaker, more pictures soon. Temperatures in the workshop have been around 10 Celsius some of the time which does nothing for the enthusiasm, one little fan heater only just manages to keep my hands warm.

David
Title: Re: Len Mason's "Mastiff" - chewed from the solid
Post by: Brian Rupnow on July 12, 2018, 02:26:10 PM
Deltango--I look in on your build thread quite frequently. You are doing a lovely job.---Brian
Title: Re: Len Mason's "Mastiff" - chewed from the solid
Post by: kvom on July 12, 2018, 04:05:13 PM
For finish, did you consider powder coating?  What temperature do you expect to achieve?
Title: Re: Len Mason's "Mastiff" - chewed from the solid
Post by: Ye-Ole Steam Dude on July 12, 2018, 04:11:09 PM
It is a beautiful build and I am enjoying following along.

Have a great day,
Thomas
Title: Re: Len Mason's "Mastiff" - chewed from the solid
Post by: zeeprogrammer on July 12, 2018, 04:33:19 PM
Since I know nothing about this engine, I did a little googling.
It's a very interesting engine and you're doing a great job on it.  :ThumbsUp:

I'm looking forward to the run.
Title: Re: Len Mason's "Mastiff" - chewed from the solid
Post by: jadge on July 14, 2018, 10:31:32 PM
I'm following along as well.  :ThumbsUp:

It's interesting that the cutter was capable of cutting the fin (space) in pass. I suspect the vibration at the beginning is simply a consequence of the tooth geometry. Increasing the feedrate probably won't affect it. One thing I learnt early on in horizontal milling is clamp it down tight. I don't generally use the machine vice on the horizontal mill, preferring to bolt to angle plates, box cubes, or the table itself. The problem with a machine vice used in the normal orientation is that there is nothing reacting the cutting forces. Instead one is relying on friction between the work and vice jaw.

Andrew
Title: Re: Len Mason's "Mastiff" - chewed from the solid
Post by: deltatango on July 15, 2018, 12:00:05 PM
Thanks to all for the encouragement. Like Zee I'm looking forward to having the engine running (I'll be delighted if it does run!), I'll have to get myself a YouTube account for the videos.

Kvom - thanks for the suggestion of trying powder coating. As the engine is thermosiphon cooled it isn't intended to run very hot (obviously coolant <100C) but I won't know the actual temperatures until it's been run. Other Mastiff builders may be able to give more info. For bench running and display I probably wouldn't go for anything other than bare metal and I'm trying some Garryflex blocks as Ramon suggested. If I get motivated to build a boat for it to drive then powder coating might be a good option for corrosion protection.

Andrew, I agree about the machine vice not being the most secure, I didn't show a picture of the stop fitted at the other side to prevent lateral movement. Should have shown that!
Title: Re: Len Mason's "Mastiff" - chewed from the solid
Post by: PJPickard on July 15, 2018, 01:50:39 PM
Nice work and progress! I'd like to do this one day, its a nice design.
Title: Re: Len Mason's "Mastiff" - chewed from the solid
Post by: deltatango on July 21, 2018, 05:02:18 AM
Thanks PJP, it would be great to see another one being built, I'm happy to help if you decide to start.

The contact breaker offers the last chance for making Al swarf on this build. The case was made from 2011 bar stock and turned and drilled in the collet chuck:

(https://81n1nw.dm.files.1drv.com/y4mo-dfyk6rtWHxUUKIJQcwdoi4U4Hfz2HxpaSGGf2n-0nxz2Lc-sel-cMAp1iwMGWeILE2VS0qeO7jbnDzOxgVl3dvbweARCSdC6kIGC7x7n-8aJBGIaE8HJsclI3U7qsKIYNDBnAHxFOpEZLW5pJyjMPv1jfonFY2G2vFDa-JkAsM9VVmPTt7Mhp9h7RGKDXfMRhvcrsEqzvUUzWHDLt1Sg?width=800&height=600&cropmode=none)

holes drilled and tapped for the posts to support the contacts and the slot milled for the fixed contact connections:

(https://7vmqra.dm.files.1drv.com/y4mLDq0Vaexv-dMF9XcoFsvNvr_WSAprQx-czuV9CpIu4PYEECIi8FnhSlrlLHEGbH-gNSR09Ttvwd92YBaaWvj4XzJhAKpuq-BbI10pUpF9kQsT3D6QQ-zkFvZSP8LFqKASoBwI4ZbbM6BBgghRMCCjJ2DmLPkZU3UQO9bZLKzAMBmIG2cQBiAmsfrsZtCJ2xZSlhFKT_g1J2wo5P4sIcOCw?width=800&height=600&cropmode=none)

The cam was turned from 1/2" silver steel  and the flats milled in the dividing head:

(https://91n1nw.dm.files.1drv.com/y4maxidgU7AWY_gQkbeB70Ii3rqUEBZG0D14o6xLub2buv1v-67vNPVPemFv-LnHeQ3W8F0zz-FualellKQz8-CsmJ2bZU_Vyk91BP3AVRz8ItQwnQV4xUvO3zSZKdit-pWi5Q7QBAcN9PQwjzaTVnu0KVbZ78exQjqJL5bUuVUInvkFqbW8Ok0JdykOpbH3yrvk-zckwmxCV9Rk3kjDZhxKA?width=800&height=600&cropmode=none)

A MS pillar supports the spring to hold the cap closed and has a thread for the advance/retard locknut. This was turned and threaded in the ER32 chuck:

(https://8fmqra.dm.files.1drv.com/y4meE8BGJAUqAbcBGjd2aFnV7xk8uYhnOiofUDqY8V52jjEdfYDeg3w8RjnrCT0YRRJ7KGo8RPuoSKrxFoZ9JAmuMh-OOcbW4L50xkrykpeS5iJzJkOVSQjJNcGX0Uw8ReKbLZjo4gKDaFTlqSyoY5ylVpX1atJP32QEExapwsxu9RmXdC3wWcdwB0z_G7evFvBWNjqtY-zufntUiBXdQXGUg?width=800&height=600&cropmode=none)

then reversed and held in a threaded mandrel to turn a decorative taper:

(https://8vn1nw.dm.files.1drv.com/y4mP2NYgoBYsFR3h_Ho54urYlnFsu3eSm_wRBB3xYCWA0mnz7FMIuP6dB9fokFddePMe3EKA6C4paHmeOpmkGLogt8ODxQl2GNykNDeUPkyKGCFycwg0WsB1k4y7b3_C8QLxTlJPvkHv_v9DG__dy3T0l3ND1GsnuyCFKjooPTs79o1Nf4EnBB3GF-TWJrMX5nwrQHdFaVFLu4Ugztht0d6Ug?width=800&height=600&cropmode=none)

I didn't take pictures of machining the little bits and pieces that go inside the case, here they are along with the cam drive shaft:

(https://9fmqra.dm.files.1drv.com/y4mKMewI2F1HqmczyJGWcmfkw2THOlWPEJcAtPgYc47eGiYeKp18TuVFyIaeDVCvqhQ_aJF14w3NK8f0ZFRi5LJS1Euy0ujAgvXKUdA2TC-AEpYDcodsMASVxh7ql6n4xRQmjuws3mmSEJ59SttZMa_gmdytJ6wzrqP9t0mNDAV4jt8Ab6KZG9CeMs_pI0s5x2OggX66S3ujIl4txSTwo0-8w?width=800&height=600&cropmode=none)

and in place on the engine:

(https://7lmqra.dm.files.1drv.com/y4mSZx1x6z4m6yvM8y9lwWp7wGoCjDy9NTvhCSvlp9II8W80m1EimViXBWapqxRQrlyHfnzBIBLiMjmq6jq3qfHmMJK31ZuM87sISQrjmaaP-2bDWfV77Tfbeqi_RvB2rsIMQgKgaW_t7NsXypluY7OPt-wITd1CGhzsglq_AIx5hamngY8z9nUzoFoD8VmxbTNntzLgQXCgPGC46azJ6ghPA?width=450&height=600&cropmode=none)

More soon!

David
Title: Re: Len Mason's "Mastiff" - chewed from the solid
Post by: MJM460 on July 21, 2018, 11:29:44 AM
Hi David, those tiny parts really make it start to look near complete.  It is a wonderful build, and I have learned a lot from your methods.

Which part of Melbourne are you in?

MJM460
Title: Re: Len Mason's "Mastiff" - chewed from the solid
Post by: deltatango on July 21, 2018, 11:48:49 AM
Yes, I can now see the time coming when I'll find out if it runs or not. The distributor, plugs, oil lines and carburetor are left to make.

We live in Doncaster, children spread around in Warrandyte, Warragul and Port Melbourne so we get around a bit!

David
Title: Re: Len Mason's "Mastiff" - chewed from the solid
Post by: deltatango on July 21, 2018, 11:53:50 AM
Sorry, clicked "post" too soon on that one. Should have said thanks for the very positive comments. Working out the ways of making bits is a big part of the satisfaction of the work.
Thanks again, David
Title: Re: Len Mason's "Mastiff" - chewed from the solid
Post by: gbritnell on July 21, 2018, 12:24:52 PM
It's been a great journey following along David. The distributor, carb and other small pieces will certainly present it as a complete engine.
I'm restoring one for a friend who got it second-hand and it doesn't look nearly as nice as yours.
Wonderful work.
gbritnell
Title: Re: Len Mason's "Mastiff" - chewed from the solid
Post by: deltatango on July 21, 2018, 01:41:03 PM
Thank you George! Coming from a master craftsman that comment is something I really value. Hope the restoration works out, and runs. I haven't built an IC engine before so when (if??) this one does run I'll be very, very chuffed.

One more tiny bit for the contact breaker wasn't even in the original design, Len Mason used a bit of "varnished drawing paper" to insulate the fixed contact tag from the case but I decided to make a more solid insulator from SRBP (Paxolin etc.). This was milled from a stub of material in the dividing head, first to width to fit the slot under the case:

(https://pfmqra.dm.files.1drv.com/y4mbBIOHIVq1YgHPdgCkrgP97M25wLznyQ5CNu8KSIbm4Fcai_ZrNBIX-GeFCp6H_pSuChQaOJFzYuKYMwwVyDAUt_z0Lm2HXMXsCpJYqDzfdTb9yRnlExcRiHVpHhf7ZSg5ZqFiJayxzW730ekmS6trUkA7uu4LCSBEGJjZzIYD1MEru90cestxfcib-xaLjaVHxbnYe4egVSLMia0CpbIPQ?width=800&height=600&cropmode=none)

then spun through 90 degrees to make the groove for the tag and a 3 mm hole drilled for the stem:

(https://8fkriq.dm.files.1drv.com/y4mOHsKr-zihDerEOdkQFvNsccf0hfiajsLKoMOq-iFQqXzB7FBkmL1jkCP8-fckzNz2xcrQqjl4SjTyLQWBFJ91g9IFOZrKbHg_5AT43AFPpYckJPUTVzzYxYw-h4ZqE4vNmx64_UGkMevwKlBa12jUZJs2FMbaVV4Qqp5I_I1Q-h_Jx-EAeX_SpiMLOXVsdp14jUF8d91EKK6RPb1mlLnXQ?width=800&height=600&cropmode=none)

then turned again through 180 and, very carefully, milled to thickness:

(https://81mqra.dm.files.1drv.com/y4meuxnAGuGhtCUfOMGc73cEylRIljrPDQFy8-VvvVzFRSeGOfl6TGoKzsfqDSqUZl9RFKqV83YLLBVxnJbJs9XEdNgewApBu4e9LBJvTsMj3nKNy9l8PHHTmLh4BF-Tshq-uofSyDM5ptOMJP83JmAhMHca0KN01vKDjIPqqEWZT3_tBfvVZvz1yK16bSLvPzhcP6t2C1sbhA7HBWyQYYBcA?width=800&height=600&cropmode=none)

This material turned out to be tricky stuff to machine, with a tendency to flake off at the slightest provocation, so the bottom bit was left at 0.5 , not 0.3 as I drew it. Maybe paper was a better idea...

Filing buttons were made to round the end:

(https://8lmqra.dm.files.1drv.com/y4mwwjr6BGBePe3iRYg8XjirPmPCGU4wtk4_rjyuXd6pg4BihfaxJzpO6WGfRNarQnnrtJyh-uDjvPDc3NvAFibDkT4ProPQqOp_uiJ8JDKZvulyeJgDJa368NigB6-LxaVKeee-XZimJ6livBfOuhmW4VPSFHg3wQtdD44B8UPWkvSEgUFg_t-pB13Vpqdz0q_3MY4dkBtwyqmTpHbRnNgjQ?width=800&height=600&cropmode=none)

and the final product looks like:

(https://8vmqra.dm.files.1drv.com/y4mF3vNFI_4iQGJe2IWTwEsIchlbw2plAcoe-JLXodJxk0bHd2eXiawP1N-X9yGRIUgIkuUquyKX0QlcO4bn1Gbgx5XvbeLBjE8Ea8mumCJ9Tjd1d3UeR8-9WnIlNBnt1VXwXV1n6hxJLb3M88U8hNaClepmdjfAYNQD2XCSQvygnIN01L4MClyLKjjFtz9iNUk9FxWweuDzv8Gd2eXoBHbew?width=800&height=600&cropmode=none)

Paper really would have been easier but it was a nice little part to make.

David

Title: Re: Len Mason's "Mastiff" - chewed from the solid
Post by: Ye-Ole Steam Dude on July 21, 2018, 01:50:10 PM
David your completed engine is a masterpiece and this has been a great build thread to follow.

Have a great day,
Thomas
Title: Re: Len Mason's "Mastiff" - chewed from the solid
Post by: gbritnell on July 21, 2018, 02:00:03 PM
David,
Over here we have a supplier where we can get Teflon sheet in different thicknesses. I use it for just the application you are describing.
gbritnell
Title: Re: Len Mason's "Mastiff" - chewed from the solid
Post by: jadge on July 21, 2018, 09:52:28 PM
Excellent job on tiddly parts!  :ThumbsUp:

In the UK a generic name for SRBP/SRBF is Tufnol. It comes in two forms, resin bonded paper and resin bonded woven cotton fibre. The later has much better mechanical properties and is sometimes better in terms of electrical insulation. I've used the resin bonded fabric version a lot in power converter designs. Although it can chip, it is less prone than the resin bonded paper version.

Andrew
Title: Re: Len Mason's "Mastiff" - chewed from the solid
Post by: deltatango on July 22, 2018, 05:12:39 AM
Thanks Thomas, I'm pleased that you like the build, all and any encouragement helps!

George, I've tried machining Teflon in the past and it hasn't gone well (always ran away from the cutting edge), maybe I need to work out tool angles etc?

Andrew, thanks. Yes I would have been better off using SRBF but the other was what I had. Mostly due to sloth but also influenced by having to pay RS $52.38 for a small sheet of 4 mm thick Carp brand.

One more not quite so small piece is the contact breaker base plate that also serves as the advance/retard lever. The last time I waggled one of these it was on the handle bars of a 1950 Matchless G80...
I printed the outline at 1:1 and used spray adhesive to stick it down to the MS sheet. This in turn was secured to a bit of sacrificial Masonite (hardboard) with double sided tape and the whole lot clamped to the powered rotary table. After aligning the table axis with the axis of the Aciera vertical head the various radii could be cut, starting with the largest:

(https://7lkriq.dm.files.1drv.com/y4mAnVflVLn11IOzTNIR7YVJps2Xz-lFUVBurOYzp_agcT85FezBgqU0JHqdx_WNYQ9OkBCeuVqsKPlCUa7acflc0BtC0Rs78c21eHCW2KSlKN9sPrMRMnbbtYKCiv94S9nz4IEd_vJHN0U9PqOZ_m9TrkczI11D9K0HXuuPIHB90VVZZMv18FYVX4WTmB3jbcWhK_xMTpSKkD2x39GSeVgBg?width=800&height=600&cropmode=none)

then the slot for the locking screw:

(https://7vkriq.dm.files.1drv.com/y4msIEBmKyWhua4s3vaxdSZeLb9Uo4dZRAJyvTehxWhYu-eRwPK7Msv3Z3W44mg2AF3ehLQiKXAdw33zlJj9tEXhQhHAB0RzjesWcmkNlWAW3KEne7ahDzDuSVycead12k2JPPKrMDvTn_bMih8DVCOjj5NoOdMpJXU3hoBYuu0TUQtwYOvKAwaL_Spzvhnjs7pVdLri1e5zQ7WLxb4H_ei9A?width=800&height=600&cropmode=none)

and the base radius (matches the radius of the case):

(https://9fkriq.dm.files.1drv.com/y4mNjqk1gUk0YvYzJckgs4RQz4pWDZCKIWxeSzYwLKB7nF2TFzjeA8Q67mqEg7JWXjCfr-mNBpwnJnl05ZOSOdp47Usn4rx0IBrbUN_4X8AA4OpeQnfa1pVWM14pFnHoz5wH0XBUozCnRy9X_NyqpGbgl0Vaysln6tOORzg-OGKIKn8RN8ewMK4sPHGBdnift9ydWgONEAhvFTDXNBvqXRPLw?width=800&height=600&cropmode=none)

Each time the RT software was used to control the angle through which it oscillated. Small depths of cut were in order but the whole job didn't take very long once set up and the results are probably better (and quicker) than I could manage with hacksaw and file. The last cuts were straight ones to define the other edges:

(https://81kriq.dm.files.1drv.com/y4mbiYa-d-bJ1oz5tdmN6MwXL6ukUiQ4geD9iQt3YSlWD0D3Rhmr4EImqkL-tcQbNCrHfwrIChgTYBHprB6HVTtOq58xHvF2LjHSwX6wErqBF9LHR8Ds_c8zf26Mlna4HPXcclD3ON2PYr_I_9qKxcCB2y78TzOb358_V7WM_3iw7e4PMCu5YnuK-u2oc1MngsR4hpE8x2c80_ZiNi8067wcA?width=800&height=600&cropmode=none)

A little bit of free hand filing at the ends and we have:

(https://71kriq.dm.files.1drv.com/y4mLq9M3QstsXvL41oe5waxYrsEaOMaEJas9rF6nrtqQ_Bw9OL7d4LKC4LtKRf2PSb-7SPPPpxCFxjvwXa1FO-P3H0xRLjkciFvh0kCf80p6bbvqeDrucWi8X8brbZkV0wfOu30dB3VnlB5lnAhtBYKtoP2YFQHFFtasP1L45gNxbeuwb1R0Wg8XbFeYKIpt1JUQyF_qJCoJfQqPbvCqSzdZg?width=800&height=600&cropmode=none)

David
Title: Re: Len Mason's "Mastiff" - chewed from the solid
Post by: Roger B on August 02, 2018, 08:21:43 AM
Still following along and enjoying  :ThumbsUp:  :ThumbsUp:  :wine1: Excellent work on the ignition components  :praise2:
Title: Re: Len Mason's "Mastiff" - chewed from the solid
Post by: deltatango on August 02, 2018, 09:46:57 AM
Thanks Roger!
More ignition bits in this post but no machining. Having finally got the 3D printer (Prusa i3 clone from a kit) working in the summer I went back to use it more recently and had all sorts of troubles. I finally realised that in summer the room temperature was regularly in the low 30s C and so just the right conditions for 3D printing. In June or July it might be 15C, not so good, so I built an enclosure that could be preheated and would keep the drafts off the prints:

(https://91kriq.dm.files.1drv.com/y4mKqxMNx5QAU6UBLKou05YvcYY6DpGdeR31Yn3cxb1BpxPxd4XBJeKd2BKKodihGG--cIQ2PRNbnwzitbGJwadttxU9BS9Su3w2WA8-L5dkCfdH7aicbP-KWUwVRwbMofyh7CMwLTiPTpu5OAFXQpH16Tb2kRU7EIhMJfzia97QynRKzDiL0YtapfirAUQOStAgFI-ywEUw32_ZsD1xQA2Ew?width=800&height=600&cropmode=none)

Note the high tech preheater... There is also a transparent poly-carbonate sheet cover but having that in place makes photography difficult.

With the printer working properly I decided to try using it for the Mastiff distributor parts. These were already drawn up in Alibre so could be exported as .stl files and the g-code generated using Slic3r. The brass strip in the rotor arm was glued in place then faced smooth in the lathe:

(https://8vkriq.dm.files.1drv.com/y4mCwsk8WFCC8-m2NNrQABNAxUFjkOBLYGt74159B4bxWs8ahq0x7tfXUcoyLhjnd4LBNa-Z59U_hULT2_Md2Jh1ebSXV_7uMwHnE1dP8tlyNHakvZfZhIWnIjm7dDGv88zW0PYLYOVGFJAJzzMm2MvymGncwpH0IDo9fdB_5R158nmbQkJdnxcxPOW-D9GgxOg9uYOf8K2CArEgBeoBoFBmA?width=800&height=600&cropmode=none)

Attached to the engine the bits look like:

(https://pfkriq.dm.files.1drv.com/y4m4hd8QgyWBDuCLzogQWE7atngtVzVcldX7oZtSiFEP_JiX6Xz95MWHKnmmJZGQ8tf4P5pcGuKZakVIyc6fuUvKhgNblDJ9LC8SzAgC6cJ33l_9m0DgW9bHskoI5bY7TjnWicw6IV6if-msJ7AMuHTXtV45mm3Xss0-6G7lHmdxkkWT7i_3wPTFH1ySfrE7xah_5Kl6NkS654TRmHH8FfQTg?width=800&height=600&cropmode=none)

David
Title: Re: Len Mason's "Mastiff" - chewed from the solid
Post by: MJM460 on August 02, 2018, 12:32:56 PM
Hi David, more excellent progress and great use of the 3-d printer.

We are in the Glen Iris/Ashburton area so you probably pass us un the way to visit your daughter.  It would be great to catch up some time.  Exploring the long paddock again, but later in the year I will send you a pm if you are interested in catching up.

MJM460
Title: Re: Len Mason's "Mastiff" - chewed from the solid
Post by: deltatango on August 02, 2018, 01:24:05 PM
Hi MJM,
Thanks, that's a good idea, I'd like to meet. Please send a PM when you get back from the travels. One of us may have to explain the "long paddock" to some of the readers  :) .

What I forgot to mention in the previous post was that if anyone building Mastiff wants to have a go at printing the distributor bits then send a PM and I'll send you a link to the .stl files (or the CAD if we can find a common file format). The forum probably doesn't want 114 MB files attached to messages.

Regards, David
Title: Re: Len Mason's "Mastiff" - chewed from the solid
Post by: MJM460 on August 03, 2018, 01:34:59 PM
Hi David, OK, sometimes I do get too obtuse in my descriptions.  Perhaps it is a bit paranoid, but I keep wondering what those spiders are doing, that always seem to be trawling around the site.

For those not familiar with the term, I think there are two slightly different meanings.  In the early days of our agricultural industry, cattle were driven from remote stations (ranches in US) to city markets along the roadside, grazing the area between the the road and the fences to keep them going.  So it meant travelling the road road to market.  A paddock, perhaps 20 yards wide but thousands of miles long.

Of course, now days, cattle go to market in road trains.  Think semi-trailer, with up to four additional full length trailers in Northern Territory, but restricted to three trailers or 55 metres in total length as they get closer to the cities.  Truly knuckle whitening experience when they decide to pass you on a narrow road.  One hundred tonnes or more does not stop quickly.

So now, cattle or sheep along the road are more likely farmers trying to find feed for the stock by allowing them to graze along the strip between the road and the fences, particularly during drought, when feed on the farm is severely depleted.  My wife and her sisters spent many an hour tending the stock in the long paddock. 

Travelling as a grey nomad, (retirees in a car with a caravan behind travelling north to find warmer weather when it gets too cold at home), whether following the the traditional droving routes, or just exploring the country, can be described as exploring the long paddock.  I think Hugh Currin calls it snow birding.  Or following the Canada geese!

Our trip last year was about 12,000 km by the time we arrived home.  Will be somewhat less this year.  Had a mob of emu on the road two days ago.  Today, a wild goat with kid, and an echidna (a spiked marsupial) crossed the road ahead of us.  The poor thing chose a time that crossed our path while another truck was passing us.  I think it passed under the other vehicle, but must have given it quite a fright.  They move faster than a tortoise, but probably only walking pace.

Will send a pm as suggested.  Enough diversion, time to get this thread back on track,

MJM460
Title: Re: Len Mason's "Mastiff" - chewed from the solid
Post by: zeeprogrammer on August 03, 2018, 02:41:24 PM
Neat idea on preheating the printer.

What was wrong with the prints?
Do you turn it off once printing starts?

On large prints I sometimes see a corner rise from the table. I'm wondering if this might help.
Title: Re: Len Mason's "Mastiff" - chewed from the solid
Post by: deltatango on August 03, 2018, 10:24:25 PM
Hi Zee,
Yes, shrinkage that was causing corners of prints to detach from the bed was the main symptom. With polycarbonate filament even quite small prints were failing. I can't keep the heater turned on once the print bed is warm or else the printer firmware interprets the unusual heating as a thermistor failure and shuts the machine down. There doesn't seem to be any need to keep it going anyway, the heat from the machine keeps the enclosure around 30C.

BTW the distributor parts were printed in ABS with a 0.3 mm bottom layer and 0.1 layers for the rest.

MJM, thanks for doing the explaining, only the other Aussies would have known what it was. Hope your having fun on the road, 9C here right now.

David
Title: Re: Len Mason's "Mastiff" - chewed from the solid
Post by: zeeprogrammer on August 04, 2018, 12:06:22 AM
Thanks David! Very helpful.  :ThumbsUp:
Title: Re: Len Mason's "Mastiff" - chewed from the solid
Post by: MJM460 on August 04, 2018, 01:35:54 PM
Hi David,

I more or less expected that I would eventually have to explain it.

It was 28 max here today, riding bikes along the Macintyre river flood levee bank.  A very nice level path,

Only 9 deg?  That is a great reason to be on the road.

Very interesting use of the 3-D printer for that distributor case, and really looking good.

MJM460
Title: Re: Len Mason's "Mastiff" - chewed from the solid
Post by: deltatango on August 04, 2018, 01:45:00 PM
When I bought the kit of bits for Mastiff from Hemingway Kits I also bought kits of materials  to make four spark plugs. These are based around a simple porcelain insulating bead with steel body, electrode etc. I didn't take pictures of the machining which is all straight-forward but here are the four sets of parts before assembly with JB Weld:

(https://71nglq.dm.files.1drv.com/y4mbpPhirY0LLXjiYQdJgZK7sUVllc2Y_OePjUh6Kq-6AMrbyK-f_EILt84CNfe_vT6yrTxDfrjkHWpO0Y7IPRExBrA66tSS1Cv56vjy9rNCX0gMU6HN3PyQ9MPN4pqBOj-CWM_81M7V2sIC3Vf5rozMIXvFyj-0W4w7VJXVgjBrKVoV5QmBYXJjDIAIX1f6SCN5myYRMXG0edr3ah5qV4_5g?width=677&height=600&cropmode=none)

A finished plug, after cleaning the insulator with silicon carbide paper and a ride in the ultrasonic cleaner looks like:

(https://7lnglq.dm.files.1drv.com/y4mNB0xbHMhiS3x0dVZPor-q8VSCami5Bm-QYaktxX4iKRYCy1_btESCJuldnpudRFg9HqGsk7zDDr3qaV_pYQCWaMll5dNOOG7lvIM_NVqX8SSt64D3ibiH-Lt9Sv2biyU55mXd-6guC1yIKULQKiabzCr1xChIqH4EhJLBxBOG_aeYdNnKMsO2HxspjdV9DgvEg7KkIjs3dGa7xHxVG8aBQ?width=800&height=600&cropmode=none)


Four sealing washers will finish these off and then the wiring is all that is left to complete the ignition system. I'm also part way through making a box for the battery and coil (a commercial coil-on-plug unit from a Ford). I won't know how much use these are as spark plugs until the engine runs (or doesn't).

The squares on the background are 1 cm. Hard shadows are due to using a on-camera flash with a macro lens.

Oil pipes and fittings are next.

David
Title: Re: Len Mason's "Mastiff" - chewed from the solid
Post by: deltatango on August 21, 2018, 06:26:17 AM
I've been busy making lots more little bits but not taking many pictures. Mastiff now has an oil distribution system that gives good oil pressure, gaskets everywhere that they are needed and HT leads. I've set the valve timing and the contact breaker and distributor timing, have to cross fingers these are close to correct. The inlet manifold is made and attached. All together the engine now looks like:

(https://9fnglq.dm.files.1drv.com/y4mzBOCSwpUx-e9Fuy6bp9An_Gvuo_x5SCe5ZrCFGYXBTSFwPccQTHvZEmhvOkAb7HGEX31Qo2EePxqAn3QrXHtnWbOaONXGq2GCT9KKoko3KE8BjQuHIALzb6GxRCgiI8U5KwZoWf8YBowDCEOOx22m0_vLEjW0uBXRPWHGCXpkl-sTvhmfQ9STakOWEL9LY-lRYQYX2AGL85Dz4bxTZ6YOQ?width=800&height=600&cropmode=none)

(https://7vnglq.dm.files.1drv.com/y4mntOX8qlMCeRV-d_UFwZ6oLbbXSRbFGCZDtMV7YgQ1vWWES8Lr7D6Do7SF71lAoTFFt_Y6xMBezHl5QoK151tOJlz1dVxLW78LxigHCGmiNG-eoIAWW90bmWbqgzyAlp9h-HBC2XgfNa32IwwG_AcFZC4iWq1phmbVihXTK7QBlSTyJazMIhxLvsedW2JEEjALHKCdKMabAcaE5sxfMilzA?width=800&height=600&cropmode=none)

The fairleads for the plug leads are two more 3D printed bits.

The carburetor is the last part to make and I'll try not to rush too much and make the time to take pictures.

David
Title: Re: Len Mason's "Mastiff" - chewed from the solid
Post by: Ye-Ole Steam Dude on August 21, 2018, 08:03:57 AM
Hello David,

Absolutely beautiful engine, workmanship and design. Looking forward to a video of this beauty running.

Have a great day,
Thomas
Title: Re: Len Mason's "Mastiff" - chewed from the solid
Post by: Roger B on August 21, 2018, 08:06:02 AM
Splendid  :praise2:  :praise2: Not long until the first pops  :ThumbsUp: :wine1:
Title: Re: Len Mason's "Mastiff" - chewed from the solid
Post by: deltatango on August 21, 2018, 09:30:36 AM
Thomas and Roger,
Many thanks for the kind comments!

Just spent a couple of hours building up a transistor ignition circuit (IGBT switch) to go into the ignition box.

David
Title: Re: Len Mason's "Mastiff" - chewed from the solid
Post by: gbritnell on August 21, 2018, 12:06:43 PM
David,
With the transistorized ignition you won't need the condenser. Using one is just for a coventional point ignition. The engine looks marvelous. I'm curious as to what the original design was to cool the engine?
gbritnell
Title: Re: Len Mason's "Mastiff" - chewed from the solid
Post by: ozzie46 on August 21, 2018, 12:53:09 PM
Mason just used a tank about as large as the engine filled with water and the water circulated by convection. When installed on a boat there was a water pickup in the water to push water thru the tank also.

Ron
Title: Re: Len Mason's "Mastiff" - chewed from the solid
Post by: deltatango on August 21, 2018, 01:17:07 PM
Thanks George & Ron.
I was going to run the engine with a simple Kettering ignition then decided to go the whole way, I'll remove the condenser when I start testing.

As Ron says, the designer used thermo-syphon cooling for the engine when static and writes (p130 of the Mastiff book):

"The temporary tank need be no more than a tallish coffee-type tin, having four short stubs of 5/16" dia. copper tube soldered in, to be connected with plastic tubing to the water connections on the cylinders each side."

I can't find any mention in the book of cooling in actual use (may just have missed reading it). Ron, where did you find the reference to the boat installation?

Regards, David
Title: Re: Len Mason's "Mastiff" - chewed from the solid
Post by: Zephyrin on August 21, 2018, 01:39:57 PM
Wow, amazing build and thread to follow, and a beautiful engine, impressive work !

the sparkplugs also look great, what kind of JB Weld do you have used for the assembly ?

coffee tin for the cooling water, with plastic tubing ? for this engine ? its serious ?
Title: Re: Len Mason's "Mastiff" - chewed from the solid
Post by: Brian Rupnow on August 21, 2018, 02:27:14 PM
Deltango--what a beautiful engine. Lovely work indeed.---Brian
Title: Re: Len Mason's "Mastiff" - chewed from the solid
Post by: michaelr on August 21, 2018, 07:14:47 PM
You have a fine looking engine nice work, the water cooling arrangement on this Mastiff may be of interest. http://modelengineeringwebsite.com/Mastiff_Plus.html (http://modelengineeringwebsite.com/Mastiff_Plus.html)

Mike.
Title: Re: Len Mason's "Mastiff" - chewed from the solid
Post by: fumopuc on August 21, 2018, 07:37:06 PM
Hi David, nice looking engine. Good luck that the first pops will come soon.
Title: Re: Len Mason's "Mastiff" - chewed from the solid
Post by: 90LX_Notch on August 21, 2018, 09:25:32 PM
David-

Everything looks great.  You're getting close.

-Bob
Title: Re: Len Mason's "Mastiff" - chewed from the solid
Post by: zeeprogrammer on August 21, 2018, 10:28:19 PM
Beautiful job David. And the spark plugs look excellent.

Looking forward to the video.  :ThumbsUp:
Title: Re: Len Mason's "Mastiff" - chewed from the solid
Post by: ozzie46 on August 21, 2018, 11:40:01 PM

If you look at the plan of the cooling reservoir you can see a tube running left to right thru it. If I remember right it has a zigzag to it to give it more area for pond water to flow thru to help cool the water.

As this is just a small section of the article I don't think it will violate copyright. 

Near right hand bottom of page 901 and top left of page 902. 20 Sept 1974 Model Engineer.
Title: Re: Len Mason's "Mastiff" - chewed from the solid
Post by: deltatango on August 22, 2018, 01:11:51 AM
Thanks to everyone for the encouragement!

Zephrin, the JB Weld was their standard product which is claimed to work up to 550F. The electronic ignition is working and has a test mode so I've now tested all the plugs individually and they give good sparks outside the engine.

Ron, Many thanks for the "More about the Mastiff" article. I had no idea this existed! My MEs go back to 1976 only and the online digital archive only to 2001 so that is a very useful find and just in time.

The engine is now on its test stand and waiting for the carby, petrol tank and cooling tank. I'm going to be in New Zealand for the 1st three weeks of September so there may not be time before then to get Mastiff running, have to wait and see.

David
Title: Re: Len Mason's "Mastiff" - chewed from the solid
Post by: deltatango on August 22, 2018, 01:14:32 AM
Mike, Just looked at the picture in the link you sent. The cooling tank on this looks very much like that described in Ron's article.

Thanks again, David
Title: Re: Len Mason's "Mastiff" - chewed from the solid
Post by: ozzie46 on August 22, 2018, 12:56:33 PM
I just adapted an empty Sig Model Paint thinner can. Quart size.
I really need to make a nicer one up someday.
Ron
Title: Re: Len Mason's "Mastiff" - chewed from the solid
Post by: b.lindsey on August 22, 2018, 04:56:53 PM
David, I am just getting caught up again on your build. You have made some wonderful progress since I last checked. What a beautiful engine it will be too!!
Bill
Title: Re: Len Mason's "Mastiff" - chewed from the solid
Post by: deltatango on August 22, 2018, 11:10:56 PM
Thanks Bill! Just the carburetor and "temporary"cooling tank to go. Like Ron my tank may stick around longer then perhaps it should. I'm not sure I'll ever get to building a boat for Mastiff to drive, the urge to build another engine is pretty strong. I have the castings and materials for a Westbury "Wyvern" in stock...

Regards, David
Title: Re: Len Mason's "Mastiff" - chewed from the solid
Post by: deltatango on October 01, 2018, 02:57:45 AM
The three weeks spent on South Island NZ was great, if anyone is looking for somewhere to visit that place has my strong recommendation. The west coast is covered in temperate rain forest, annual rainfall in the 6 to 7 metre range so take the waterproofs.

The trip was interrupted by a brief return to Melbourne for a close friend's funeral.  John had asked to see a video of Mastiff running but I didn't work quickly enough and cancer won that race; now I have to get back to it, so on with the carburetor.

As suggested by Len mason in the Mastiff book I made a pair of carburetors, if I eventually want to set the engine up with one on each side then its much easier to make two when things are set up for the first than to go back and start over. I have bad memories of trying to keep a twin carburetor car engine in tune many years ago so I'm not really all that keen on the arrangement.

The bodies started as the usual rectangular block of Al, carefully labeled so that up and down, left and right didn't get confused and held in the 4-jaw:

(https://tp5t8w.dm.files.1drv.com/y4mcYi8VM2TdLcdyVlgUGqeOGYoFPpsiOS57fzu2Ai8RrXhF7vmNJOs4zcBb-pExlhLBZY3dn-f7fUTqHELnMQcS3RuTwxoTQhWTBoaVHKE-9EXXRKLSRO-Z1DX0cSZn01MCaspjk4of-FmwHU7gefQJQ7STgEx19Pd13E4tArvQt4rY6j-gddyWzZlj8vqGHE5gaP8HONrjITM4gcwkeyjgA?width=800&height=600&cropmode=none)

The blocks were long enough that the tops could be formed on them before parting off:

(https://vz7sfg.dm.files.1drv.com/y4muZUI_n1omp_0H8Zo6hxJi1WTJDi2QsMWYy1AnPAItIfp0r5501W9wqz9sZpd4Os2jP6_qK3iZqbbuevA1H38PdIHEQoXYqTd_DJmFSYiILRzbON-WPH9yngeVlXU394l6z1_L6GHapuwsL2rmgN1-hj9CU6HTmh9Zc8-VcqunciirGUuP9AuIPaHZIcJ0N1iqJcPRukCxsaTLneGXDRv5g?width=800&height=600&cropmode=none)

Then the four faces worked on in sequence to produce the final body shape:

(https://t57sfg.dm.files.1drv.com/y4m7UUpB_FCCdQupYhxu25EyuQcQPnfRe91gzU0Z8SBh2xTknNY5lBopFE5-X6jeRs49PUZEUVvJL7Nq9brB1SszO0w_ZIibtCJLvGw1ykW8Zh3qBrDHw24dBpCLre74461IT86nsGnUETdfjSMNcc--gS3DnKL_BJwmCwVG9stJPkOn6bPhLgeZFqroxS4C_XLINbIM9yJ6Y6NHNrSvJvCEA?width=800&height=600&cropmode=none)

(https://vp7sfg.bn.files.1drv.com/y4miCwB8b11FIntNGXRYAECmrTlgO69Kt8hFZasFzOys31pY7TrNjewMMZhY8CdBnHhzqJoFpFsVccFJNkZsFBMq4t9bqLlwxd94CZ0BWuOkLOfMU_Z1O-uayJ_5Vk3OXQ13wGuFiMVHvOgSBUqfXG3jhRsKAUQ0AGVKpiLvKbCqzd47bNbshrqhnkm_ePt66ZALE_zK-7QlfCf7I9V03Jqew?width=800&height=600&cropmode=none)

(https://tj5t8w.bn.files.1drv.com/y4mRiV70xYRbry3E5XO4lSAzJvOaGwIcM1h6ylDK0VROfqLcy8rKc5-Ci_toP--dZreMNJqP07g0RFI8PZBML0lYd1h4308K3Q7Uk3wD_4xdMyoewTqDA1E1t4STwrGTRYa0gqDqJJ9laL423-LsNBeaVpyxhGW0geNqiMKc3hWFGuuJmvQT2oWsW-EU9FBSgE2KseQSdllR7RY8QAtHtNWEA?width=800&height=600&cropmode=none)

(https://tz5t8w.dm.files.1drv.com/y4mzITCJ5Ct9BLDhTIb1f-L9sRCmQwlLGnEGBldJ-9U89dIj5cOMH7wxRdiVRIBfmnyxwsfKemH4Iuv1DNMuOmU1lFscne9pMr1hNRaLkUVdg4JMLa2ISNn8Caa8zwgyDhlCvTXXW9mMudKNqptYYNy1Av4Kr1CWU_Ab-l9E6l-peNKNcPBMoixdUwGUzytJxsjCmS206l6yjye00l37zfxTQ?width=800&height=600&cropmode=none)

I was rushing with the smaller bits and didn't take many pictures but some of the parts were made on my Pultra 1770:

(https://s55t8w.dm.files.1drv.com/y4m3zJLJZZxw9JMspBVpnZClBKy2ybQ0Ek5A0gx4pWuQBEb0DGcDAc4CtGBnywzT6JaZH4x7EfpBXQIdfLpTOcYwdjSenBWDINf5sr2XXYFKM0Phyqayp98wc7FQOxF3gnEByTuQJx86KewQiMxwqO35j-oqLKImp67ejgO8dxCxQSKXFB6frfx5XJ_6OtntDi96iSFJRI1vFpmh8X7gOqhdg?width=800&height=600&cropmode=none)

which now has a lever-operated tail stock thanks to a very generous MEM member (Thank you!):

(https://uj5t8w.dm.files.1drv.com/y4mIFdmiwqXl6KcAe9S5tAiH1xn1oRFPQ2nBPdAKOAUmA96bW25hYkvEI2bPI4GilRXbF_EJ5SOFXdLAekPSvgvFYOt4XmSB9MrXBTlAMlJhOZBSQZPYNxobaWKwAvMDGaBvE2YN9aDfP3vhU6m-5EUi3UJxMb349Bz50EFCOZgyfZ7ZehBrhyz-tEUYdkPCfIjxSDBajuX7rD3HdqSfQXi3Q?width=800&height=600&cropmode=none)

The designer suggested making the throttle needle carrier from the solid but I think that it was easier to make the notched adjusting knob as a separate part and silver soldering it to the threaded shaft. A stub of 1/2" brass had the 25 notches cut in the dividing head using a corner of an end mill set up at the correct offsets:

(https://up5t8w.bn.files.1drv.com/y4mzozvuZzYOFehBChMCoSQh9EAKoyUsucp5A1l7ZXZ8sfRSWauERca1PYDqnaijo-UySE0YA4vFugJD460CUnc_ub0y-Vv5D-lWzpz2joEWG8vIKiNjZuKt2AebFVYExxFyfUwEyXA18T7wvzoNB91vAq3IHIigWLPRO5uf9CBxki_mEO04bvOVEYNIRXf3iQd9V3UbBNcXR-ivK8cKwE1rw?width=800&height=600&cropmode=none)

and parting off:

(https://t55t8w.bn.files.1drv.com/y4mDds6bw0KtDqM2lP0RmlID-NRoIvbXVO3qrZISzyLbNUrziumjsErAYcHxSMEs2HpLX6xsemGAxCJ7RqNHCK4NM_E51ni_KfauQbaq5yOEVevOcJIdDZZehxHvBE_U3Scm290P9dCL2nzH0_MS6OZc9mDWyzWt-xa8r_pqp49UzLUJlLAguHVmOAJCGO53mqNAkJkR-dIIYkzdBq1xU0GiQ?width=800&height=600&cropmode=none)

An exploded view of one of the final products gives an idea of how the other little bits look, and go together:

(https://uz5t8w.dm.files.1drv.com/y4mZJcgJztdc0ePtRhqoKU95gu8Qmy3P9yfzDlodRMA6NbOpnnvuOP08Ej6RydvMsgmcWIGK1Kq15YUJq5YKU21rWsi97PMSIhWeJVd-a-jt4cxfkMRSVFhc800IWgwp1ZpLJ4qgH_0mznEGqerb-x7vPxPPl2vz4RnI79X4i_iJNwU7pnkc1X26et9CzwmWbg1cAMWQ7h2w1vP083sqPOh7A?width=600&height=800&cropmode=none)

Now Mastiff is all together I have to make it work. Right now the compression is poor and some re-finishing of the block and cylinder head surfaces is underway. I think that now may be where persistence become really important and bits have to be re-made, cleaned up, binned, remade etc etc until the beast makes noise.

David
Title: Re: Len Mason's "Mastiff" - chewed from the solid
Post by: Craig DeShong on October 01, 2018, 05:22:31 PM
Seems as though every IC engine I build, initially, has poor compression.  "Running them in" (I mount them to the lathe and spin them over with copious amounts of oil in the cylinder for an hour or so) seems to work wonders.  On initial starting I also flood the cylinder with lots of oil.  They smoke like crazy, but it helps build up the compression so they will run.  After break in they all develop great compression, just takes a while to get there.
Title: Re: Len Mason's "Mastiff" - chewed from the solid
Post by: Craig DeShong on October 01, 2018, 05:26:07 PM
I'be been silently watching thus build David, its been a pleasure to watch this engine come together.

It seems as though every IC engine I build, initially, has poor compression.  "Running them in" (I mount them to the lathe and spin them over with copious amounts of oil in the cylinder for an hour or so) seems to work wonders.  On initial starting I also flood the cylinder with lots of oil.  They smoke like crazy, but it helps build up the compression so they will run.  After break in they all develop great compression, just takes a while to get there.
Title: Re: Len Mason's "Mastiff" - chewed from the solid
Post by: Johnmcc69 on October 01, 2018, 10:04:40 PM
That's a nice looking carby! Nice work.

 John
Title: Re: Len Mason's "Mastiff" - chewed from the solid
Post by: deltatango on October 03, 2018, 12:58:49 AM
Thanks John, every bit of encouragement helps!

Craig, the compression is better but still no pops. Next to check the ignition timing, plugs...

David
Title: Re: Len Mason's "Mastiff" - chewed from the solid
Post by: Art K on October 03, 2018, 01:56:30 AM
David,
I'm still following along. I like the carb build. I have managed to not do much work in the 4 jaw. This looks like a great job for the little used 4 jaw. I am planning to try Jerry Howell's two jet carb for my Upshur single, replacing the Perry unit presently on it.
Art
Title: Re: Len Mason's "Mastiff" - chewed from the solid
Post by: MJM460 on October 03, 2018, 02:51:55 AM
Hi David, totally agree on that South Island scenery.  We went over Arthur's Pass on the train one year when the road was snowed in.  Not the Canadian Pacific, but does have an open observation car.The delays meant a night trip, but clear sky and bright full moon.  Just magic.

Sorry to hear about your friend.  Funerals never seem to aoocur at a convenient time for some reason.

Great to see you back on the great engine build.  Looking forward to you getting it going.  Then we will see if we can meet up some time.

MJM460
Title: Re: Len Mason's "Mastiff" - chewed from the solid
Post by: Roger B on October 03, 2018, 05:36:21 PM
That's a good carburettor build  :praise2:  :praise2: I like the technique for the adjustment wheel  :ThumbsUp: The first start can require perseverance  ::)  ::)  :wine1: 
Title: Re: Len Mason's "Mastiff" - chewed from the solid
Post by: deltatango on October 09, 2018, 12:42:26 PM
Thanks everyone for the comments. MJM - I'll be in touch soon.

The last week has seen a steady increase in the compression and the amount of firing (when spun over with a cordless drill) but still no independent running.
So far I have:

Re-checked the valve timing - only a small change there.

Adjusted the contact breaker cam position - this was too far advanced to allow setting the spark much after TDC. Checked this with a strobe timing light.

Adjusted the dwell and debounce settings in the electronic ignition - now 4 mS dwell and 1.8 mS debounce time. During this bit I managed to burn out a coil. This is a cheap coil-over-plug unit meant for a 6-cylinder Ford and the replacement seems to be running much cooler, the original timing had the dwell and debounce times much longer. Also, if the debounce time is less than 2 mS the firmware for the ignition turns the coil off after 1 S of no triggers, with longer debounce than that it leaves the coil active for 10 S, probably the little coil couldn't take that.

Cleaned a very small amount off the tops of the blocks in the mill and polished them flat on the surface plate:

(https://tp4iaa.bn.files.1drv.com/y4mY5RoNDq_MbKI0SzVXKoEkLqK-23nldYJ-UyqgLaNyRhSVr1uXBUSqfSgFDOh0vhX9baxs2arjvrzqWjTBAS2i5wV5SWJoPqz1ek0LOmR4ytDbMLUONI5VdRTBJwZwBFQP690ygB8-rfglZ_0i-Ibr1d3DKyj5k_bc2sZkisUT2kcSO-lkDqHewHxziv6qfb6fM0JrjYO2IUOHbOotanWTQ?width=800&height=600&cropmode=none)

I'm not sure this was necessary but at least joint leaks can't be reducing the compression any more and the gaskets should last longer.

Spent a long time at the stereo microscope picking tiny bits of metal out of the valve seats with a bit of copper wire (sorry, I don't have a camera adaptor for this so no pictures). I don't think I'll use Al alloy valve seats again...

Fiddled endlessly with carby settings, definitely vital but still no more than a few consecutive bangs. Whilst doing this last night I put a hand in the right place for the first time and felt pulses of gas coming from somewhere where I didn't expect it, somewhere near one of the spark plugs. At first I thought the plug wasn't tight, not so. So the sealing ring (or seating) isn't flat? also not the case. Made new alloy sealing rings, no change???? It was definitely time to stop guessing and start thinking. Today I took off one of the heads and made up a blanking plate to close off one combustion chamber. This was drilled so that compressed air could be fed in using an air-brush line and the air brought in via a tiny adaptor originally made to fit the blow-down bush on my "Minnie" traction engine. {Airbrush fittings are M5 x 0.45 if you needed to know}:

(https://tz4iaa.dm.files.1drv.com/y4mfi7yAVIp2MDtJJoa-K5ymC_1EX2htqtf-6dZETfb2MeI1DrpbjPBB-ZH4E7UMO1kfuCkoL2pTx2MS8SUQsBE7Wutk_VPCaDqEd8p44r0F1C_8Y4DiOTIIH1nLYgcZLrfCsBh5mO6IaJWwBSJ5JWYQ59mrqoEpcLb1fNpfv3wWWbQVg55CCzHXs70rHVSRH4afaRLNV2DOY3ryc79vM3qMg?width=800&height=600&cropmode=none)

(https://vz5t8w.dm.files.1drv.com/y4m_NtHucG1k_f6qP7uZLqJq4oF798knnZ6Ojf9bM6_mWLPgHosHDPnjf_79u2ii0if_xZ9TOTHdRUeK1xJu9hDEp2hcgmhDltvGafQu9eVSl053nWDfYW6QnT5gGd5q4fhgSGI4xwcdZaOi28650R7pQa_9PalW10pWqexnUWCr3XZrByLe-mJDl2w-SBVki-uT7HLeLC1Va0bu3ZwGwhJCA?width=800&height=600&cropmode=none)

Now I could try out plugs and sealing washers with a lot more control over things and the answer came very, very soon after turning on the air. If you look back through the build log you'll see that I made my own spark plugs from Hemingway kits and this involves gluing the bits together with JB Weld. Well I'm guessing that I made the gaps too small for this to be effective everywhere and there are leaks through the plugs. Clearly these have to be dealt with before going any further. Either try to destroy the JB Weld with heat, dismantle the plugs, and try again or take the easy but expensive way out and buy 4 Rimfire plugs (apart from Chinese copies these look to be the only 1/4 x 32 UNEF plugs available commercially?).

It's time to sleep on this one!

DT


Thoughts
Title: Re: Len Mason's "Mastiff" - chewed from the solid
Post by: Craig DeShong on October 10, 2018, 03:55:29 PM
Divide and conquer.   I'd go with the,store bought plugs, oncev it's running you can return to the home made.
Title: Re: Len Mason's "Mastiff" - chewed from the solid
Post by: Brian Rupnow on October 10, 2018, 05:23:09 PM
Deltango--This is an unusual thing that once happened too me. Are you turning the engine in the correct direction when you are trying to start it. Sounds like a dumb question, but if it can happen to me it can probably happen in Australia.---Brian
Title: Re: Len Mason's "Mastiff" - chewed from the solid
Post by: Roger B on October 10, 2018, 05:40:02 PM
These people also offer 1/4 - 32 plugs:

https://www.justengines.co.uk/acatalog/Ignition_Systems_for_Glow_Engines.html#aJW2015

I have used them on my vertical engine.

Otherwise go back to basics.

Do you have 'bouncy' compression on each cylinder (try one at a time with the plugs removed from the others).

Look at the valve timing. The inlet should open a little before TDC and close a little after BDC.  The exhaust should open a bit before BDC and close a little after TDC. There should be a noticeable overlap at non firing TDC. Check all cylinders just in case there has been a problem during the camshaft build.

Look at the spark for each cylinder after the above checks. Does each spark around the firing TDC for every cylinder (lay the plugs on top of the block).

Is there a strange advance curve in your ignition? The RCexcel unit I used retarded suddenly around cranking speed.
Title: Re: Len Mason's "Mastiff" - chewed from the solid
Post by: deltatango on October 11, 2018, 06:38:50 AM
OK, commercial plugs are on order - thanks Craig for confirming what I thought was the right way to go.

Brian, I had this thought as well and (it isn't a dumb question at all) checked and checked again, I'm turning the engine clockwise (seen from the timing case end) and the contact breaker cam is turning CCW (seen from above), just as the designer intended.

Roger, there isn't much "bounce" from the cylinders, nothing at all like a model aircraft engine, but then the compression ration is only about 3.86:1 (per cylinder swept volume is 6.336 cc and combustion chamber volume is 2.211 cc from my Alibre models), 3.74:1 if you allow for a 0.4 mm gasket (I wonder if 0.4 Klingersil is too thick?).

The valve timings are "something like" you describe but I'll measure these again, an error in building up the camshaft is well up the list of possibilities.

I don't know the advance curve for the ignition, in fact I can't find any reference to it, I'll keep digging for that. It may be that there isn't one, it's a very basic unit.

I spun the engine with the plugs out and they sparked in the correct firing order - 1,2,4,3. With the plugs back in and a strobe light connected and triggered from each plug lead in turn the sparks were all occurring at very similar times just after TDC (thinking about it now, this may not guarantee that it was the firing TDC, um...). BTW, in the Mastiff book Len Mason argues that, in a side valve engine, valve overlap doesn't achieve much but he still designs it in.

I'm going to make up a 1/4x32 adaptor for the air-line so I can pressurise each combustion chamber in turn and check if the valves are seating. Poor compression is still at the top of my list with incorrect valve events second.

Many thanks for all the suggestions, I'll report back when I have more info.

Regards, David
Title: Re: Len Mason's "Mastiff" - chewed from the solid
Post by: Admiral_dk on October 11, 2018, 11:31:17 AM
Quote
the sparks were all occurring at very similar times just after TDC (thinking about it now, this may not guarantee that it was the firing TDC, um...)

This is too late - sparks need to ignite the fuel before TDC  :zap:
The reason : you should have maximum combustion pressure around 4 degrees after TDC, and it takes several mili-seconds for the fuel to burn completely => ignite before TDC. Usually only IC engines of several liters of cylinder volume might be able to run, if ignited after TDC and they will not be able to do work in this scenario.

Since you have such a low compression, I will also guess that you need extremely low friction for the engine to be able to idle well - but here I'm not sure  :thinking:

Best wishes

Per
Title: Re: Len Mason's "Mastiff" - chewed from the solid
Post by: deltatango on October 11, 2018, 12:07:06 PM
Thanks Per, I had my thinking wrong there. When I get some new plugs I'll re-set the timing to where you suggest.

I've now made the 1/4x32 air-line adaptor and pressurised each cylinder in turn. Numbers 1 and 2 are good, no leaks that I can find; #3 exhaust valve needs attention for a slight leak. Number 4 cylinder however has a significant leak to the water space but the gasket looks intact. Tomorrows first job is to find that leak path, hope it isn't a cracked liner!

David
Title: Re: Len Mason's "Mastiff" - chewed from the solid
Post by: deltatango on October 26, 2018, 06:51:35 AM
Mastiff is now running! My sincere thanks to all those who helped with advice.

I've just set up in YouTube and uploaded my first video, not a good experience but its done now:
Qr5WZeeECCw
The leaks to the water space were small (tiny) tracks around the tops of the cylinder liners where the JB-Weld hadn't quite filled the space when I assembled the liners to the block.

The plugs are Rimfire VR2L (good service from Morrison & Marvin Engine Works) and I adjusted the ignition timing slightly.

The valve timing is close to what is shown in the book but valve closing events happen a bit early - by an amount that could mostly be due to tappet clearances.

The compression is improving with running and all cylinders are starting to give a good "bounce".

I've re-made the carburetor needle with a shallower taper which has help with control but the engine is still running very rich and sometimes cuts out for no apparent reason. I'll keep working on the carburetor settings as the slow-running screw hasn't shown any sign of having any effect at all.

It's about time for a complete tear-down, clean, and re-build and then the "Mastiff" build story will be complete.

I'm feeling the need to start machining again so its time to dig out the "Wyvern" castings and build an IC engine the traditional way. There is also a big box of Southworth/Throp Corliss castings sitting with friends near Huntingdon and waiting for me to get over there and pick them up but they have to wait until next year.

Many thanks again to all MEM members who have helped and encouraged me along the way.

Regards, David
Title: Re: Len Mason's "Mastiff" - chewed from the solid
Post by: Ye-Ole Steam Dude on October 26, 2018, 07:50:16 AM
Hello David,

I absolutely love that little engine, and the wonderful sound. Wish your video was a bit longer. Great job  :ThumbsUp:

Have a great day,
Thomas
Title: Re: Len Mason's "Mastiff" - chewed from the solid
Post by: Chipmaster on October 26, 2018, 08:11:50 AM
Excellent, well done  :ThumbsUp:

Andy
Title: Re: Len Mason's "Mastiff" - chewed from the solid
Post by: Jo on October 26, 2018, 08:36:31 AM
Well done David  8)

You have got me thinking about my set of Mastiff castings again  :thinking:

Jo
Title: Re: Len Mason's "Mastiff" - chewed from the solid
Post by: deltatango on October 26, 2018, 09:01:48 AM
Thanks Andy, Thomas and Jo,
I'll make a longer video the next time the engine is running.

For anyone who is an Alibre user (Jo?) I've attached the solid model of the whole engine (Alibre  .asm file; the Forum file size limit prevents me attaching the 3D .pdf).

Jo - I can recommend the engine as well worth the effort and the castings would speed thing up a bit. With your experience and "retired" status I doubt it would take you as long as it took me but it is still a lot of work. As far as I can see being "retired" only makes you wonder how you ever had time to go to work.

Regards, David

Edit 27 Oct 18: Removed the attached Alibre file. There is a link to one that should be usable in a later post. Sorry about the mess-up folks! DT
Title: Re: Len Mason's "Mastiff" - chewed from the solid
Post by: MJM460 on October 26, 2018, 12:49:20 PM
A great result for all your work, David.  Congratulations.  That first run is certainly a major milestone. 

With some luck, a little final tuning will complete it.

MJM460
Title: Re: Len Mason's "Mastiff" - chewed from the solid
Post by: ShopShoe on October 26, 2018, 01:24:52 PM
I've been watching and waiting. It's great to see that running.

I'm looking forward to the new video, whenever it comes. (I'm Patient.)

--Shopshoe
Title: Re: Len Mason's "Mastiff" - chewed from the solid
Post by: Brian Rupnow on October 26, 2018, 02:30:22 PM
Congratulations Deltango. Very nice engine.---Brian
Title: Re: Len Mason's "Mastiff" - chewed from the solid
Post by: Roger B on October 26, 2018, 05:28:06 PM
Splendid  :praise2:  :praise2: Perseverance pays off  :)  :) Now for the twin carb version  :stir:
Title: Re: Len Mason's "Mastiff" - chewed from the solid
Post by: Art K on October 26, 2018, 08:48:11 PM
David,
it's great to hear that flat 4 pure along. Great job!
Art
Title: Re: Len Mason's "Mastiff" - chewed from the solid
Post by: Dave Otto on October 26, 2018, 11:09:54 PM
Congrats on the first pops David, you have done a splendid job on this little beauty!

Dave
Title: Re: Len Mason's "Mastiff" - chewed from the solid
Post by: Kim on October 27, 2018, 12:48:24 AM
That is very exciting, David!  Great to see it running  :ThumbsUp:
Kim
Title: Re: Len Mason's "Mastiff" - chewed from the solid
Post by: Dave Otto on October 27, 2018, 12:56:29 AM
Hi David

For the assembly to be opened in Alibre you will need to create a package file that will contain all the parts of the assembly.

Thanks,
Dave
Title: Re: Len Mason's "Mastiff" - chewed from the solid
Post by: deltatango on October 27, 2018, 02:01:02 AM
Thanks for that reminder Dave! I'm so used to just clicking on the assembly file that I forgot that it needs all the components to access.  Sorry to everyone who downloaded the .AD_ASM file on its own. Here is a link to a zipped up complete directory with all the files:

Link removed 23/11/2018 DT

and another to the 3D .pdf:

Link removed 23/11/2018 DT - the links have been up long enough for those who are interested to do the downloads. If anyone else wants the files please send a PM.

Many thanks to everyone who has passed on their congratulations, support is very important.

I've already made two carbies and I think these are probably necessary for Mastiff to run really well. The very long inlet tract and small bore may be why the engine doesn't rev up as well as I hoped. I now have to make and rig up the linkages and try again.

Regards to all, David
Title: Re: Len Mason's "Mastiff" - chewed from the solid
Post by: Admiral_dk on October 27, 2018, 04:32:54 PM
Nice runner  :ThumbsUp: congratulations  :cheers:

Thank you for the files  :praise2:
Title: Re: Len Mason's "Mastiff" - chewed from the solid
Post by: deltatango on October 28, 2018, 04:58:35 AM
Thomas asked for a longer video so here it is:

pQb8wju8nhU
and a couple of stills:

(https://t54iaa.sn.files.1drv.com/y4mKgkO0lF7TICdPmErUP6STLLkopW6c3Obm-AcnlTjq-QZLbHN2_94sBszbKvLuqoQExBgk-oS3zE5YzSvPCW7_5n_dCjhtRa79X7P4FlNlcEp1xJJ9Ve-Utm2_IW4yQweArE81jWdK-WBZgx49o2xpc0DNefkzeXRr-TGhURPBMUbzgEPySJEci6NW-0CqrVVGaoUIqONagG4hJ1MN1RpiQ?width=800&height=600&cropmode=none)

(https://vp4iaa.sn.files.1drv.com/y4mXuN_zD1NKiWoZ7P6WY7o17ygpJXuuueb8lokWTJ7ulQrmLPTKwAqLC3AtAYCBzdOwhWIqj8KxO5BXFc4b7RqQnFbrr4LiVKugKwgF6PYR7zbYG388ouKuJOFgW1Snx71-YX6Kx51acSyyx_ylHi55KmlUC4CLzXR25E7sf4OSAyl9aPhr0djd0cszK6kqv6cyBtTOeCZwhVLHlO1Vp_Niw?width=800&height=600&cropmode=none)

The engine is improving each time I run it, it will almost idle now.

When it is pulled down for a clean out I'll replace the "oiled paper" gaskets recommended by Len Mason with Hallite and Klingersil, right now Mastiff piddles oil like a 1960s British 'bike. There is a lot of misfiring happening and the spark plugs are very dirty, some of this is oil but a lot is just black carbon from what seems like very rich running. Closing the main jet down with the needle doesn't seem to have much effect, until the engine stops.

Regards, David
Title: Re: Len Mason's "Mastiff" - chewed from the solid
Post by: Ye-Ole Steam Dude on October 28, 2018, 08:19:56 AM
Hello again David,

Thanks for the longer video. You have to be very satisfied with the looks and performance.

Have a great day,
Thomas
Title: Re: Len Mason's "Mastiff" - chewed from the solid
Post by: gbritnell on October 28, 2018, 10:53:10 AM
HI David,
The main jet adjustment is primarily for high speed operation and won't affect the idle running until like you say it then stalls. I will look at the drawing this afternoon and see if I can give you more information on what needs to be done.
gbritnell
Title: Re: Len Mason's "Mastiff" - chewed from the solid
Post by: 90LX_Notch on October 28, 2018, 02:32:21 PM
Congratulations David.  This has been a great build.

-Bob
Title: Re: Len Mason's "Mastiff" - chewed from the solid
Post by: Craig DeShong on October 29, 2018, 12:50:38 AM
Fantastic David.  Job well done!   :cheers:
Title: Re: Len Mason's "Mastiff" - chewed from the solid
Post by: 10KPete on October 29, 2018, 02:29:56 AM
That is a very attractive engine from many standpoints. With George on your team there is no doubt you have it purring like a kitten.

 :ThumbsUp: :popcorn:

Pete
Title: Re: Len Mason's "Mastiff" - chewed from the solid
Post by: deltatango on November 19, 2018, 08:12:44 AM
Thanks to everyone for the words of encouragement!

A few things have happened to Mastiff since I last posted and, apart from a persistent slight roughness (miss-fire ?) it now runs well:

J3ygQiGAXCE
The laser tacho shows it idles at about 1100 RPM with the throttle close to, or fully, closed and the idle screw has some effect on this. The engine revs out to ~4500 but I'm not game to let it stay there for very long, particularly without a load. The cooling hopper is hanging off the end of the test stand and needs to be re-made but this leaves enough space at the flywheel end to couple up a load (generator?).

The changes were to both the ignition timing and the carburetor. I'd managed to make the same two errors to both carbies; first the main jets were over size at ~ #68 (they are now #70 as drawn) and I'd used fibre washers for sealing the fuel banjo rather than the (rather vaguely) specified "paper washers". The effect of this was to pull the main jet downwards out of the throttle body by most of a mm. This was easily fixed (once recognised!) and had a significant impact. Making new jets cost me a couple of drills but I've learned something of how to handle those from the exercise.

An ignition timing problem caused a lot of head-scratching before solution - the super-glue fixing the distributor rotor-arm to it's metal core had failed (but the fit was tight) and the sparks slowly got further and further away from when they should have been until the engine wouldn't run. One day it was a bit reluctant to start, the next day no-go at all. The pattern of spark damage on the face of the rotor arm gave this one away.

The most important other change was replacing the M3.5 cap screws on the cylinder heads with M4.0 studs. All the dismantling and reassembly damaged the threads in the blocks (entirely predictable with hind-sight) and the heads weren't secure enough anymore.

Its now time to get on with some workshop re-organisation and then make a start on the Wyvern (castings to fondle first this time). I'll probably run a build log on this one as well.

Thanks to all Forum members for the advice and the encouragement throughout this long series of "learning opportunities"! I'm very pleased to have found MEM and that I joined in.

Regards to all, David
Title: Re: Len Mason's "Mastiff" - chewed from the solid
Post by: Ye-Ole Steam Dude on November 19, 2018, 12:44:36 PM
Hello David,

Great job on this new video, watched it on youtube (full screen) looks and sounds wonderful.  :ThumbsUp:

Have a great day,
Thomas
Title: Re: Len Mason's "Mastiff" - chewed from the solid
Post by: PJPickard on November 19, 2018, 03:50:09 PM
Nice job on this I followed along every step. Its on my bucket list of engines!
Title: Re: Len Mason's "Mastiff" - chewed from the solid
Post by: steam guy willy on November 19, 2018, 04:02:17 PM
Hi Len , Lovely engine there and the trouble with adjusting devices is that they always need continual adjustments   ;D :cartwheel: !!

Willy
Title: Re: Len Mason's "Mastiff" - chewed from the solid
Post by: zeeprogrammer on November 19, 2018, 04:29:56 PM
Definitely worth seeing in full screen. Nice job!  :ThumbsUp:
Title: Re: Len Mason's "Mastiff" - chewed from the solid
Post by: Admiral_dk on November 19, 2018, 10:31:52 PM
Great result David  :praise2:

It sounds very nice for a non-loaded engine - you should be proud of the end result  :cheers:
Title: Re: Len Mason's "Mastiff" - chewed from the solid
Post by: MJM460 on November 19, 2018, 10:36:58 PM
Hi David, a great result, one to be very proud of.

 MJM460

Title: Re: Len Mason's "Mastiff" - chewed from the solid
Post by: Art K on November 20, 2018, 12:38:08 AM
Dave,
Mastiff sounds great. It'll get better as it runs longer, it's not even broke in yet. :DrinkPint:
Art
Title: Re: Len Mason's "Mastiff" - chewed from the solid
Post by: Brian Rupnow on November 20, 2018, 01:10:51 AM
David---A lovely and impressive piece of work. ---Brian
Title: Re: Len Mason's "Mastiff" - chewed from the solid
Post by: Roger B on November 20, 2018, 09:57:22 AM
That sounds much better  :praise2:  :praise2:  There are so many little details that have a big effect  ::)
Title: Re: Len Mason's "Mastiff" - chewed from the solid
Post by: michelko on December 10, 2018, 04:13:22 PM
Very nice build  :cheers:
Can you say something About the compression Ratio? If i remember Right you had some Trouble get it running. Didi you do changes to the CR.

The Background is i can´t get my Bugatti engine running reliable. i believe my cr (6:1) is a Little high for the homemade plugs so i am planning to reduce the cr.

Regards Michael
Title: Re: Len Mason's "Mastiff" - chewed from the solid
Post by: gbritnell on December 10, 2018, 04:38:51 PM
HI David,
I don't think the throttle range is being limited by the single carb and longish intake runners as much as it is with the vapor fuel supply. Granted as you open the throttle it will tend to pull more fuel vapor but balancing the air supply with the engine's needs is kind of an iffy thing. The vapor fuel supply setup works well for single cylinder engines or engines that run a a pretty constant rpm but I don't think they are very efficient for multi cylinder engines
My suggestion would be to make a proper fuel tank mounted with the top of the tank just below the needle valve height and play with the carb adjustments that way.
gbritnell
Title: Re: Len Mason's "Mastiff" - chewed from the solid
Post by: deltatango on December 10, 2018, 11:59:16 PM
Hi Michael,
Thanks!

If you look back through the build log you will find a long list of the mistakes I had to correct before Mastiff would run well. These included leaking gaskets, over-size main jets, wrong timing and leaking home-made spark plugs. The compression ratio is about 3.8:1 and at first there wasn't much compression but this has developed as the engine has been run. With small cylinder volumes the thickness of the head gasket has quite an effect on the CR, could you try a thick gasket to reduce the CR?

David



Title: Re: Len Mason's "Mastiff" - chewed from the solid
Post by: b.lindsey on December 11, 2018, 12:27:54 AM
I am late to the party David, but congrats on a nice running and really beautiful engine. Glad you got all the little issues worked out.

Bill
Title: Re: Len Mason's "Mastiff" - chewed from the solid
Post by: steamer on December 11, 2018, 02:00:16 AM
She's a runnah!!!

Congrats and thanks for taking us along!

Dave
Title: Re: Len Mason's "Mastiff" - chewed from the solid
Post by: Art K on December 11, 2018, 03:31:42 AM
David,
I have to admit that 3.8:1 sounds low. Are you sure you want to drop it more? My understanding of L head engines 6-7:1 was optimal, 7 probably max. Though I admit I have no idea how that applies to a miniature. Besides the fact that you probably built it as designed.  I never figured it out but I think my Upshur is about 4.5-5 to one. It will run 7000rpm. Val I actually used Alibre to figure the area and have 7:1 I think I'm rambling & will stop.
Art
Title: Re: Len Mason's "Mastiff" - chewed from the solid
Post by: deltatango on December 11, 2018, 05:00:07 AM
Hi Art,
Rambling is good! I wasn't intending to reduce the CR on Mastiff - it was just a suggestion to Michael that if he was concerned about the CR on the Bugatti being too high he could drop it temporarily with a thick head gasket.

Now rambling: I first learned of this idea from my Uncle Ted who had ridden a 500cc AJS single through WWII when petrol was very hard to find. He made up a thick copper head gasket and ran the bike on a mixture of kerosene and whatever else he could find, "smoked a bit" was his only comment. U Ted was a pressure vessel draughtsman and reserved from active service (I said he "made up" the gasket but maybe he just drew it and talked nicely to the shop floor). He also belonged to a Territorial Army regiment and manned a 3.75"  AA gun defending his factory at night, I'm not sure when those blokes ever got to sleep.

Regards, David
Title: Re: Len Mason's "Mastiff" - chewed from the solid
Post by: michelko on December 11, 2018, 09:52:06 AM
Hi Michael,
Thanks!

If you look back through the build log you will find a long list of the mistakes I had to correct before Mastiff would run well. These included leaking gaskets, over-size main jets, wrong timing and leaking home-made spark plugs. The compression ratio is about 3.8:1 and at first there wasn't much compression but this has developed as the engine has been run. With small cylinder volumes the thickness of the head gasket has quite an effect on the CR, could you try a thick gasket to reduce the CR?





David thanks for your Reply. Unfortunately i have to stay with my actual gasket with 0,5mm. The Timing housing didn´t allow much more because of the Overhead camshaft´s. The easiest way would be to reduce the height of the pistons, but then tere would be now way back without make them new.
I am nearly sure i will try this way.

Regards Michael
Title: Re: Len Mason's "Mastiff" - chewed from the solid
Post by: deltatango on December 11, 2018, 10:53:00 AM
Michael,
I should have thought about the camshaft drive. Its obvious (once you pointed it out) that with overhead camshafts there isn't much room for adjustment in height.

George,
Thanks for your interest and the info that "I don't think the throttle range is being limited by the single carb and longish intake runners", I'll stop worrying about that! I don't really know what a "vapor fuel supply" system is, please tell me more. With Mastiff I just did what Len Mason said to do:

(https://hfxqig.sn.files.1drv.com/y4mOmIdC32vWYrNDNhHG9AM1cRvl-14U7Jonm-ER7HYBR5ymUnGN7h7KJojrSswKtjhZIZqHF8FtGfzHglwnDAi068sxi9WxSDd3CqMT0oYokdjjXJ-qVFRiZLTSIYti0FMKQ_QBbRdxZkB61hTaxViyscVaeZZU4tFxSSHSOyMuHyiz-nFvwd7s7NJx-hWG0HH0oTEajxheX4fICCOOVODQg?width=800&height=600&cropmode=none)

Couldn't get the depth of field in one shot but the blue line across the carby marks the height of the top of the jet:
(https://iqxqig.sn.files.1drv.com/y4mZTLfPY-A79wQLhAyYpeTQRTqPuQHU2bvODEpZuZ9u4z8wcZ5mszSLxak7pj-iKnL4RCAGROnPc3focA4HqaySZ8W68TjbrkehzDy_VdsRPaD4CLzaDOkDMyszIla-B77TxQ9NPzugYa93CJoTLpnbMPJKWMAKoNYOrHaJ5L0UfdSG2qXsHJTRQ-G_IqvgbyvFbbmWXjJCkuRHVIj_YfZiQ?width=800&height=600&cropmode=none)

After blowing into the central bit of pipe to get the fuel flow started the engine will pull petrol until the little jar is close to empty. If the level is much past half way down then even a small bubble in the fuel line stops the engine. I guess that in this system the fuel flow varies with throttle opening and engine load, so far I haven't added any load to the engine. Right now Mastiff idles around 1200 RPM and spins up to 4500 (only very briefly, I chicken out very quickly) but isn't smooth at any speed, maybe a load would smooth things out?

Thanks again, David
Title: Re: Len Mason's "Mastiff" - chewed from the solid
Post by: gbritnell on December 11, 2018, 12:40:12 PM
Hi David,
I spoke in error. Now that I see a close up shot of the fuel reservoir I see that you are pulling fuel from the bottom of the jar. When I first looked at it I thought it was a vapor type set-up where one line feeds air to the tank and agitates the fuel while the other line just pulls the vapors from the air space above the fuel level. A lot of fellows use this type of set-up on their hit and miss engines.
I'll pay more attention next time.
If you're getting that throttle range from idle to high speed I would say it just about perfect.
One thing you could try the next time you run the engine is to loosen the distributor enough so you can just turn it and as you bring the rpm's up try advancing the timing just a little. Some engines will perform better with a little advance. Once my engines have "broken in" I set my timing this way. I give them the maximum advance then back them off just a little. Doing this will generally raise the idle speed a little so it all depends what you're trying to achieve.
gbritnell
Title: Re: Len Mason's "Mastiff" - chewed from the solid
Post by: michelko on December 16, 2018, 01:30:43 PM
Jim,
The short answer is that Len Mason provided a diagram of the angular positions in his book on "Building Mastiff" and I followed this very carefully:

(https://tza6mg.dm2302.livefilestore.com/y3mNCDMQLM-SWoil-S78jnwU-HkUAqBEgjMhqQxWThrlaRiOXnyIrU8snzJKshl5i2K-2pEWUSBxf6vUt7WjBcPVO5bdG1hRlo2rhhYKMrtFmb1mTvE5nRkAQBVgz9ddgCTI3v4DPZKyXoSSvkWqBEg2yUvkAx7d9DXVa0ICrUFAYo?width=513&height=600&cropmode=none)

The original diagram was about 2" by 2 1/2" and the reproduction not very good so I scanned it and printed it A4. The generally poor to very poor reproduction of the drawings in the book was one of the reasons I re-drew the whole engine in Geomagic Design. Having the 3D CAD meant I could produce my own drawings and pictures as checks (.pdf s attached).  Moving each cam to the correct angle in turn required the dividing head to be turned backwards or forwards by various angles and I worked out these angles and wrote a list of the moves needed. The last picture in the post looks enough like Fig 15 on p87 of the book to be reassuring.

The essential design info needed to work out the angles for yourself is that the camshaft turns anticlockwise looked at from the timing end, on each cylinder the cam nose centrelines are 110 degrees apart with the exhaust leading. The firing order is 1,2,4,3.

Thanks for the interest!

Dt

Hi David,
I am a Little confused about your camshaft layout.

From my knowledge the cams of cylinder 1 and cylinder 4 should have the same angle. The firing of the cylinders is divided by 180 degree, the space between  cyl 1 and 4 is 360 degree. Because of the1/2 reduction of the camshaft i makes then 180 degree. While cylinders are opposed and not inline the cam #1 should be in the same position as cam #4  In the cut at the left side of the drawing it lookslike they are a bit of. A typical 4 Zylinder boxer camschaft on vw Typ 1 or type 4 engines also have only 4 lobes.

Am i wrong?

Regards Michael
Title: Re: Len Mason's "Mastiff" - chewed from the solid
Post by: deltatango on December 16, 2018, 09:26:19 PM
Hi Michael,

Yes the camshaft is the trickiest bit of Mastiff to get right and is different from other boxers. The shaft is well above the cylinder horizontal centre line and the tappets and valves are in a straight line, unlike a VW motor there are no push-rods or rockers.

This all means that the tappets and valve stems slope down from the camshaft at an angle of 13 degrees below the horizontal. #1 and #4 cylinders are on opposite sides of the engine which accounts for the two 13 degree angles (easiest seen around 360 on the timing diagram). On cylinders that are on the same side of the engine the slope just moves the valve timing around by 13 Degrees, e.g. #1 exhaust fully open at 347 and #2 exhaust at 77, still 90 apart but rotated 13 degrees.

The other consequence is that you cannot combine cams for cylinders on opposite sides of the motor, and each cylinder must have its own pair of individual cams.

Hope this helps, David
Title: Re: Len Mason's "Mastiff" - chewed from the solid
Post by: Art K on December 16, 2018, 11:16:50 PM
David,
I had to reread that to wrap my head around that. But then It makes perfect sense.
Art