Model Engine Maker

Engines => From Kits/Castings => Topic started by: Chipmaster on January 13, 2016, 01:16:02 PM

Title: Retlas
Post by: Chipmaster on January 13, 2016, 01:16:02 PM
I have completed three Alyn Foundry engines, the RLE, Gardner O Type and a CHUK inverted flame gulper. Each engine was a pleasure to build, the RLE and Gardner O type have run well for nearly twenty years thanks to the design of the engines. My build log of the CHUK flame gulper was added to MEM in 2015. Going back in time, on the strength of the Alyn Foundry ‘Retlas’ flyer I had hoped to graduate on to building one but by the time I’d saved enough money the kits were out of production
Quoting the flyer.
“The RETLAS is a 1.3/4" bore 3" stroke gas or petrol engine, using the 4 stroke otto cycle.
Retlas is closely based on the early 1900's GARDNER vertical gas engine, and when built looks most impressive with its double eccentric valve operating mechanism and Holts inertia governing.  Although Retlas looks complicated certain aspects of its machining are quite simple.  All parts except the flywheel and cylinder yoke can be machined on a Myford lathe.”

Last Autumn I was very fortunate to obtain a seasoned set of Retlas castings. The flywheel was given free of charge as it had suffered a mishap during casting, if it couldn’t be saved I knew could have another cast.

I have only seen one Retlas which I photographed at the Harrogate Model Engineering Exhibitions perhaps 10 years ago.
Title: Re: Retlas
Post by: Jo on January 13, 2016, 01:31:32 PM
 :whoohoo:

The Retlas  :Love: I'm looking forward to this.

Don't ask me when I will be building my one of these :lolb: its in the list but will be different :naughty:

Jo
Title: Re: Retlas
Post by: Alyn Foundry on January 13, 2016, 03:40:44 PM
Hi Andy.

I'm looking forward to your build log with great interest!!

For the record.

The broadsheet photo was taken by Tony Harcombe who built that engine on a treadle lathe.

Attached is Retlas engine No 103 all cast in the backyard foundry apart from the flywheel. That flywheel turned out to be a little too light and was superseded by the present one, which, in fact is more in keeping with the original Gardner.

The original vertical suffered badly with poor cylinder lubrication and died prematurely, it was thought none had survived..........

I can now say that many years after Dion made a request for someone to build a replica two vertical Gardner engines have surfaced but due to the rarity the owners wish to remain anonymous.

Kind regards, Graham.
Title: Re: Retlas
Post by: Jasonb on January 13, 2016, 04:31:39 PM
Graham any progress on the Retlas models returning to Anson Museum and the odd other engine being cast too ;)

Jo have you got the Gardner works drawings or will you just be going by a photo?

J
Title: Re: Retlas
Post by: Jo on January 13, 2016, 05:21:40 PM
Jo have you got the Gardner works drawings or will you just be going by a photo?

If anyone has acquired the Gardner works drawings I would be very happy to review them  ;)

Jo
Title: Re: Retlas
Post by: Alyn Foundry on January 13, 2016, 05:36:29 PM
Jo have you got the Gardner works drawings or will you just be going by a photo?

If anyone has acquired the Gardner works drawings I would be very happy to review them  ;)

Jo


Hi Jo.

I'm almost certain that the Anson had everything from Dion, who was Gardner's official archivist, after he passed away a couple of years ago.

I can find out for you, if you wish?

Regards, Graham.
Title: Re: Retlas
Post by: Chipmaster on January 13, 2016, 05:49:52 PM
Hi Graham,
I hope my approach to this build will meet with your approval  :NotWorthy:

My Alyn Foundry Gardner 0 Type can be governed to run slowly and fires pretty regularly, does the Retlas run in a similar fashion?

Does the Retlas cylinder lubrication method provide reasonable longevity?

And finally can anybody add more Retlas pictures and perhaps a video of one running?

Andy
Title: Re: Retlas
Post by: Jasonb on January 13, 2016, 06:06:09 PM
Jo have you got the Gardner works drawings or will you just be going by a photo?

If anyone has acquired the Gardner works drawings I would be very happy to review them  ;)

Jo

When I was given them I was told they were for my eyes only  ;D
Title: Re: Retlas
Post by: Jo on January 13, 2016, 06:26:28 PM
Anything you can find Graham would be useful  :)

When I was given them I was told they were for my eyes only  ;D

 :headscratch: But are you sure they are of the right engine, I really should check for you.

Jo
Title: Re: Retlas
Post by: Jasonb on January 13, 2016, 06:33:31 PM

 :headscratch: But are you sure they are of the right engine

Oh Yes
Title: Re: Retlas
Post by: Stuart on January 13, 2016, 06:41:33 PM
And when you curl up you toes they will be lost forever LOL


Stuart
Title: Re: Retlas
Post by: Alyn Foundry on January 13, 2016, 07:37:34 PM
Gardner Vertical gas engine.

I have just finished speaking with Geoff at the Anson who, coincidentally has also been studying Gardner's early hand written day books. It seems they quite often started and  ran the engines in the wee small hours. We wondered if the town gas supply might have been weak and the only time suitable was during the night?   

He's going to look and see what he can find drawing wise he also has many glass plate negatives of the machine shop showing both vertical and horizontal engines under construction.

I have also spoken to Tony Harcombe  with regard to getting a short video of his Retlas running.    It's rather amusing really...... We think nothing of taking photos and videos these days but 20 years back it was quite a chore.   :)

Attached is Tony's fully finished engine.

Regards Graham.
Title: Re: Retlas
Post by: Alyn Foundry on January 13, 2016, 07:52:24 PM
Hi Graham,
I hope my approach to this build will meet with your approval  :NotWorthy:

My Alyn Foundry Gardner 0 Type can be governed to run slowly and fires pretty regularly, does the Retlas run in a similar fashion?

Does the Retlas cylinder lubrication method provide reasonable longevity?

And finally can anybody add more Retlas pictures and perhaps a video of one running?

Andy

Hi Andy.

I'm sure it will !!  :ThumbsUp:

That's a leading question the compression ratio is quite high and Vincent's engine was quite a beast on occasions, but so long as the gas valve is properly seated with no leakage then I'm sure it will run quite slowly.

The lubrication won't be a worry as you're not going to be running 8 hour shifts, we forget that the full size engines had a job to do!!   ;)

Now the record for the slowest running 1/2 scale Gardner engine is 180 RPM currently held by John Murray. 

Can you beat that ?

Regards, Graham.
Title: Re: Retlas
Post by: Chipmaster on January 13, 2016, 08:12:03 PM
Thanks for the response Graham, I'll have a go at the slow running challenge next time I run my 1/2 scale Gardner engine and submit the evidence.

Andy
Title: Re: Retlas
Post by: Jo on January 13, 2016, 08:52:16 PM
And when you curl up you toes they will be lost forever LOL

Stuart

And  :mischief: in years to come they will look at your engine built from the unobtanium drawings and say that's wrong, that's also wrong its not to the original Retlas drawings by Vincent :ShakeHead:

Jo
Title: Re: Retlas
Post by: Chipmaster on January 13, 2016, 08:55:12 PM
The flywheel was my first task. I had just finished machining the two flywheels for my Economy engine which are the same size as the Retlas flywheel so I was in the mood.
The casting was ugly but I felt that it was viable - at least the problem was too much rather than too little metal. If I couldn't get a good result using my lathe then I could use a die grinder to get into the space between the spokes.
The misshaped rough looking hub was hard going and took quite a time to get beneath the skin but as the job progressed the machined areas cleaned up perfectly well so I had confidence in the integrity of the casting. I had to plug one shallow blow hole in the rim and because of a few other blemishes the finished diameter had to be slightly undersize, not a problem. The spokes still need some fettling and a little filler to deal with the shallow pitting here and there . When spinning on the lathe the flywheel inner rim also runs perfectly true - phew!
Andy
Title: Re: Retlas
Post by: zeeprogrammer on January 13, 2016, 10:21:20 PM
 :popcorn:

to be followed by

 :DrinkPint:
Title: Re: Retlas
Post by: Jasonb on January 14, 2016, 07:33:21 AM
And when you curl up you toes they will be lost forever LOL

Stuart

And  :mischief: in years to come they will look at your engine built from the unobtanium drawings and say that's wrong, that's also wrong its not to the original Retlas drawings by Vincent :ShakeHead:

Jo

Stuart, I'm not the only one who has them there are other hit & miss / gas engine collectors who do.

Jo Why whould they say it does not look like a Retlas when it will be a Gardener Vertical not something based on a Gardener with little references.

Andy that wheel turned out a lot better than the external appearance suggested :)
Title: Re: Retlas
Post by: Jo on January 14, 2016, 07:42:43 AM
Stuart, I'm not the only one who has them there are other hit & miss / gas engine collectors who do.

In which case and looking at the date of this engine they are no longer subject to copyright and can be shared and enjoyed, shared and enjoyed  8) Unless of course someone is being mean and just teasing the forum members  >:(

Jo
Title: Re: Retlas
Post by: Jasonb on January 14, 2016, 07:55:12 AM
As I said the person who shared them with me said they were for my eyes only so I will not be going against that.
Title: Re: Retlas
Post by: Chipmaster on January 14, 2016, 10:24:02 AM
Well I'll interrupt the banter and slip in a bit more about the model. :)
I removed the flash from the base casting by filing and set it up for milling the underside flat. The casting was pretty true in each direction and didn't need much machining. Two 1/2" holes were drilled through the thin (1/16") skin left intact where the crank webs will go, very useful for holding the casting down. The skin was knocked out later on simply by smashing it with a hammer. My milling machine had just enough travel to enable the sides and edges of the casting to be machined in one sitting. An extract from the plans is included to show the style of the main bearings, I also marked out and milled the registers for the bearing caps.
Andy


Title: Re: Retlas
Post by: Chipmaster on January 15, 2016, 06:52:07 PM
My next job was to fit the main bearing caps. I had thicker caps cast so that I could form oil wells in each cap later on using a milling machine to get rid of the excess. I forgot to take pictures of the caps being milled so this instalment starts with pictures of the caps glued to the base ready to be drilled and tapped for 1/4" Whit studs.
The assembly was then put back on the milling machine and the caps and base milled to the correct widths and gap between the housings for the crank.

With my equipment the only way I could bore out the main bearing housings to 1" was to make a 'between centres' boring bar and fix the base to the cross slide of my Colchester Chipmaster. The Retlas base is almost as long as the cross slide so the top slide had to be removed. A sandwich of 16 + 3mm bright drawn mild steel almost brought the casting up to the required height. As you can see in the pictures I used two of the 5/16 UNC rear toolpost mounting holes and the two top slide bolt holes to attach the steel supports with cap head screws. The engine base was in turn bolted down to the steel supports taking care that this set up didn't distort the cross slide, it shouldn't because the base was dead flat, but a Chipmaster cross slide isn't heavily built.
The split line of the main bearings is specified 1/16" below the centre line of the crankshaft. With a 1/8" diameter rod in the chuck and a piece of cigarette paper the base was shimmed up equally front and rear until I was happy with the height. The milled timing side of casting was then clocked to ensure the crank would be at a right angle to that face / datum.
That left me to get the cross slide in the correct fore and aft position then locked by tightening the appropriate gib strip adjustment screws.
The boring bar was 5/8" diameter and I simply advanced the cutting tool with light tapping and measuring the position with a micrometer plus an internal mic as the final reaming size was approached. The bores were finished off with a 1" machine reamer.
Andy
Title: Re: Retlas
Post by: Jo on January 15, 2016, 07:12:36 PM
 :thinking: Sounds like you need a bigger milling machine, nice power quill feed topped off with an automatic boring and facing head  :naughty:

Its a big old engine isn't it. I will have to decide how much smaller mine will be  ;)

Jo

P.S. I can't see any DRO scales on your chipmaster  :ShakeHead:
Title: Re: Retlas
Post by: Jasonb on January 15, 2016, 07:49:14 PM
Comming along well and the oil box on the top is the way to go for authenticity ;)

I have resorted to the between ctrs bar on more than one occasion and its a nice solid setup.

Did you tap all the way the stud holes or plunge with a 1/4" bit to the bottom of the rebate and then start tapping? I've only done that sort of stepped bearing cap before where the stud is outside the rebate.
Title: Re: Retlas
Post by: Chipmaster on January 15, 2016, 08:16:40 PM
:thinking: Sounds like you need a bigger milling machine, nice power quill feed topped off with an automatic boring and facing head  :naughty:

Its a big old engine isn't it. I will have to decide how much smaller mine will be  ;)

Jo

P.S. I can't see any DRO scales on your chipmaster  :ShakeHead:

Bigger milling machine, try telling that to the memsahib !

DRO .... I'm old skool

Andy
Title: Re: Retlas
Post by: Chipmaster on January 15, 2016, 08:41:45 PM
Hi Jason, The plans showed the stud in the rebate, I omitted to include an extract from the main bearing plans in a previous posting, I'm using my iPad this evening so I'll correct that when I'm using my pc tomorrow.
As you suspected I used the 1/4" Whit tapping drill to drill down the full depth of the studs through the caps and base casting. Opened up the caps to 1/4" plus about a 1/16" more into the base holes. With the caps still in place I then tapped the holes in the base. Consequently the deep clearance holes in the caps ensured the threads were true. The glue probably wouldn't have held the caps in place if I'd tapped all the way through.

Andy
Title: Re: Retlas
Post by: Chipmaster on January 16, 2016, 07:55:29 AM
Retlas main bearing drawing shows the studs in the Rebate.
Title: Re: Retlas
Post by: Alyn Foundry on January 16, 2016, 07:03:29 PM
Hi Andy.

Great progress.........

I built more than one or two Retlas engines over the years, my Le Blonde RP has a massive saddle so I actually drilled and tapped it just for the purpose of inline boring the engine bed casting. I have four screws in the holes so they don't fill up with swarf.  ;)

Looking forward to the yoke casting !!  ;)   With a big lathe it's child's play.

Re the main bearing caps...... It became apparent, much later in time that Gardner had just made them the same as the horizontal engine. Vincent being a National Gas engine owner made them recessed, in fact the picture he used was a rather smaller version of the one Jo posted. It still amazes me to this day how close he got to the original, with such little detail to go on !!

Kind regards, Graham.
Title: Re: Retlas
Post by: Chipmaster on January 17, 2016, 09:01:25 PM
The Cylinder Yoke casting would be mounted on a lathe faceplate to bore the water jacket out for the liner. My Colchester Chipmaster has an eleven inch swing which was sufficient for the set up I envisaged.
To prepare for milling the base of the Cylinder Yoke I filed the top of the casting flat so it could be bolted down firmly onto the milling machine table using a length of 1/2" allthread. The angle plate was positioned to help keep the casting still and the set up was pretty rigid. I also milled what I could reach of the underside of the casting where the cylinder liner exits.
The casting was then mounted with a temporary support pillar on a piece of 5/8" thick gauge plate which was in turn bolted to the lathe faceplate. I took my time positioning the casting also taking into account the raw cylinder liner casting, to decide on the best position/compromise to start boring.
The job proceeded taking 10 - 15 thou cuts at about 150 rpm to avoid chatter.
How's that Graham?  ;D
Andy
Title: Re: Retlas
Post by: Chipmaster on January 17, 2016, 09:27:58 PM
It was necessary to bore / open out the water jacket to ensure that there would be a route for water to flow up through the passages to be drilled up through the cylinder liner.

teky2tVW_Ts
Andy
Title: Re: Retlas
Post by: Steamer5 on January 17, 2016, 10:44:52 PM
Hi Andy,
 Nice setups for a tricky shape.
Following along, & enjoying!

Cheers Kerrin
Title: Re: Retlas
Post by: Alyn Foundry on January 18, 2016, 05:58:15 PM
The Cylinder Yoke casting would be mounted on a lathe faceplate to bore the water jacket out for the liner. My Colchester Chipmaster has an eleven inch swing which was sufficient for the set up I envisaged.
To prepare for milling the base of the Cylinder Yoke I filed the top of the casting flat so it could be bolted down firmly onto the milling machine table using a length of 1/2" allthread. The angle plate was positioned to help keep the casting still and the set up was pretty rigid. I also milled what I could reach of the underside of the casting where the cylinder liner exits.
The casting was then mounted with a temporary support pillar on a piece of 5/8" thick gauge plate which was in turn bolted to the lathe faceplate. I took my time positioning the casting also taking into account the raw cylinder liner casting, to decide on the best position/compromise to start boring.
The job proceeded taking 10 - 15 thou cuts at about 150 rpm to avoid chatter.
How's that Graham?  ;D
Andy

Hi Andy.

Hmmm...... Very similar, Vincent made a heavy " C " section steel jig that would fit into a 4 Jaw chuck but otherwise the rest of the machining was identical.

You're taking me on a very nostalgic journey, I'm enjoying every step!! Thank you. The prototype  Retlas was shown to the world at the very first 1000 engine rally held at Tatton park, Knutsford Cheshire. It's been so long I'm afraid I've forgotten the year!!  :)


Kind regards, Graham.
Title: Re: Retlas
Post by: Chipmaster on January 19, 2016, 09:37:57 PM
The cylinder liner was too heavy to rely on my four jaw chuck to hold it without additional support, particularly as  the job would be subject to many interrupted cuts. I also wanted the liner to remain in the chuck for boring out and the machining of the exterior.
My first move was to use a shaper to square off the top of the cylinder and machine it flat so that it could be pressed against the body of the chuck. The other end of the cylinder was carefully machined so that I could use a fixed steady. I bored out the liner to just under 1.75" leaving a little for honing to remove then a bung was fitted so that the job could be supported by a live centre whilst the outer surface was machined.
Andy
Title: Re: Retlas
Post by: Jo on January 20, 2016, 09:13:40 AM
 :o There are a lot of very tricky bits to hold for machining in this engine Andy. Nice work.

Jo
Title: Re: Retlas
Post by: zeeprogrammer on January 20, 2016, 11:27:28 AM
Good pics of your operations.
They gave me some ideas that will help.
Title: Re: Retlas
Post by: Chipmaster on January 20, 2016, 10:18:29 PM
To determine where to position the cylinder yoke I placed a 1" diameter ground bar between the main bearing housings and a 1.3/4 diameter bar down through the cylinder liner to rest on the 1" bar. It was then a matter of moving the yoke about and taking a series of measurements until I'd got it lined up. I then clamped the cylinder yoke to the base and used a transfer punch to mark the where the holes in the base would be drilled then tapped.

For the main bearings I decided not to make split bearings. I was thinking about the work involved and considering how the plain tube bearings had performed well on my Alyn Foundry Gardner O Type for nearly 20 years. Perhaps for appearance I'll score a split line on the bearings later on.

You may notice that the flywheel and timing gear now have keyways, these were broached by a fellow 'Black Country Live Steamers' member.

Andy
Title: Re: Retlas
Post by: Jasonb on January 21, 2016, 07:34:24 AM
You are making quick progress on this one Andy. Quite often I don't unsolder split bearings so also doubt how much they are really needed on our models that don't see much in the way of running time or load. I have also done a couple of hit and miss engines with supplied oilite bearings which are OK if you only need a single flange and cheaper than the raw bronze bar.

J
Title: Re: Retlas
Post by: Chipmaster on January 21, 2016, 08:30:38 AM
Hi Jason,
I am a little further ahead than the pictures suggest and I'm now thinking about the crankshaft. Should I machine it from the solid?  A local profile cutting firm will cut a blank for little cost and I have used that approach before with satisfactory results, but it is a rather slow process - particularly because of stress relieving.
My early efforts at making model engines made me wary of fabricating a crankshaft because a couple of my fabricated cranks failed, one when the engine backfired and the other went banana shape after the heat of silver soldering. These failures did generate some mickey taking at the time so crankshafts became my bête noire !

However, I have the exact size of ground EN1A for the shafts and crankpin to hand, all I need is the material for the webs.
When silver soldering, do you start with the shafts, webs and crankpin at the finished size, then simply pin and solder them together?

I have a Bullfinch propane torch so if I silver solder the crank I'd have to get the whole job up to red heat, so I'm concerned it would distort.

Any thoughts or observations.

Andy
Title: Re: Retlas
Post by: Jasonb on January 21, 2016, 12:33:50 PM
I've made several from PGMS and have not had problems with them moving more than a couple of thou which can usually be tweaked back without problem.

I cut a good CSK on the outside edge of the pin and inside edge of the shaft which fills with solder and only apply it to these sides which helps with cleanup. Once soldered I pin the joint as I feel all that hammering on a loose joint may distort things but doing it after any gap is filled with solder.

5/8" is the biggest I have done and also only have a Bullfinch torch, with Tenacity No5 I did not have any problems getting the solder to flow, I do it all in one heat.

Galloway Crank http://www.homemodelenginemachinist.com/showpost.php?p=229982&postcount=19

I've also done several from solid, bright flat bar and black bar, as you say its more work but at least you know it should not fail.
Title: Re: Retlas
Post by: Alyn Foundry on January 21, 2016, 01:35:53 PM
Hi Andy.

We made lots of crankshafts over the years and learned by mistake which method worked best.

We used ground stock cut and centred at full length for the shaft and used a separate piece for the crank pin. We then cut suitable blocks for the webs that were drilled and reamed to suit the throw.

Now the secret is to use the best flux! Tenacity No 5 is the only one we found to work because you need to get everything hot. Next trick, use a very flat fire brick to ensure your assembly doesn't distort.

To ensure minimal distortion start heating the shafts from either end to get the length expanded. Martin suggested cutting the Silver solder into smallish lumps and placing them on the fluxed joints. This method  worked really well as all you needed to do was heat the area, the solder just melted and ran.

After the assembly had cooled we used to " pickle " it in ordinary household vinegar fo 24 hours, this made excess flux removal very easy.

All that was left was to carefully cut out the section of main shaft between the webs, it would be the last cut that showed a good job! If it jumped you had a banana.  :)  As time progressed we rarely saw a jump, but even a jumper could be rescued, thanks to centring the shaft before soldering it was a simple matter to place between centres and correct the run out.

We never, ever used pinning just relying on the solder to do its job. Funnily enough, the only crank that ever failed was an early attempt at a forging for the RLE. The metal had pocketed in a turn and broke after a few hours of running. Oh, and I also tried 638, without pins that was a disaster too.

Gardner's used solid billet, I remember a conversation I had many years ago with an ex employee who, as an apprentice his job was to drill the plate with 4 holes ready for a senior to slot out the waste material. One member of the Gardner family also developed a crankshaft lathe, of which a couple were rescued by the Anson engine museum.

Kind regards, Graham.

Title: Re: Retlas
Post by: Jo on January 21, 2016, 02:26:34 PM
Oh, and I also tried 638, without pins that was a disaster too.

 :headscratch: Graham I thought you retired long before September 2013.

Jo
Title: Re: Retlas
Post by: Alyn Foundry on January 21, 2016, 02:48:38 PM
Oh, and I also tried 638, without pins that was a disaster too.

 :headscratch: Graham I thought you retired long before September 2013.

Jo

Indeed, yes!

Please note the emphasis on " new formulation "  :)

I'm referring to the first time 638 came out. I was so unimpressed I phoned their technical support people who then told me that it was unsuitable for shock loading. After spending £18.00 on a bottle, a kings ransom back then it was relegated to the shelf. Luckily when we started on the Robinson " X " type it was used to hold the cylinder liner in place.

Kind regards, Graham.
Title: Re: Retlas
Post by: Chipmaster on January 21, 2016, 05:15:35 PM
Thanks for your advice and the benefit of your experience Graham and Jason. Reckon I'll attempt a fabricated crankshaft.
My failed crank was just like your experience Graham, Loctite + pins for my Gardner O Type crank. I'd invited a few friends round to see the 'new' engine, it backired a couple of times and wouldn't run, the valve timing appeared to be miles out. Turned out that was because the shaft on the timing side had sheared the pins and the Loctite gave up. I would have expected the shaft with the flywheel to go but hey ho. I have had great success with glueing in other parts such as cylinder liners with Loctite 638.

Andy
Title: Re: Retlas
Post by: Chipmaster on January 28, 2016, 07:47:44 AM
Further work on the cylinder liner. Copies of the liner and cylinder head plans are included below, followed by pictures of the work in progress. I annotated the plans to highlight the water cooling arrangements.
A guide for drilling the five stud and three water passage holes was made on a rotary table from a piece of aluminium bar about 5/8" thick with a register machined to fit the bore of the liner. At first the holes were all 2 BA tapping size.
After determining the orientation of the cylinder liner the first hole was drilled down through the liner into the cylinder yoke, the blind hole in the cylinder yoke tapped 2 BA then single hole in the liner opened to 2 BA clearance. The first stud was fitted and the guide was used for the other four stud holes (2 BA tapping size) drilled through into the cylinder yoke. All the holes in the liner were opened up to 2 BA clearance size and the fit to the cylinder yoke checked using temporary 2 BA all thread. Plain studs with threaded ends were made up using a Coventry Die Head.
Andy
Title: Re: Retlas
Post by: Chipmaster on January 28, 2016, 08:23:10 AM
The cylinder head then came into play, my first job was to machine the face flat. Unfortunately the diameter of the cylinder head was rather smaller than the liner so it wasn't feasible to machine the edge because the mounting holes would all look too close to the edge. Determining the best position for the head was a compromise between symmetry, appearance and function. Anyway, I used Hafix to glue the head onto the liner turned it upside down and used a very long series 3/16" drill to put the holes for the five studs and three water passages into the head. The cylinder head was held in a four jaw chuck to machine the water outlet and spark plug holes. The original design required the three water passages to be drilled at an angle of 30 degrees from the flat cylinder head face to converge at the bottom of the water outlet hole - quite a challenge!
However the notes that accompany the plans include an update suggesting the cylinder head waterways are easier to produce by drilling sideways through the side of the head to outlet, plugging the holes and filing them flush afterwards. So that's what I did, drilled the outlet hole deeper and finished it with a flat bottomed drill. I accidentally deleted pictures of that operation.
Andy
Title: Re: Retlas
Post by: Jo on January 28, 2016, 08:28:45 AM
It is looking very good Andy  :embarassed:

I noticed that in your enthusiasm you posted two huge (+3M bytes) photos the same. Did we miss one?

Jo

P.S. The poor guys who are trying to see the forum on their mobile phones will find it takes forever for those big pictures to download  :-\
Title: Re: Retlas
Post by: Chipmaster on January 28, 2016, 09:03:57 AM
Ooh er sorry, can those pictures be deleted so that I can have another attempt. I have wanted to delete attachments to replies before posting but the 'clear attachment' button hasn't worked for me.
Andy
Title: Re: Retlas
Post by: Jo on January 28, 2016, 09:10:05 AM
Removed.

Once they are attached to remove them you have to un-click their attachment box  ;)

Jo
Title: Re: Retlas
Post by: Chipmaster on January 28, 2016, 09:12:44 AM
Thanks for doing that Jo, I'll correct that posting later on when I'm using my pc.

Andy
Title: Re: Retlas
Post by: Chipmaster on January 28, 2016, 05:11:24 PM
A recess for the larger timing gear was formed in the base casting but quite a lot of machining was required to reach the required diameter and depth of the finished recess. I was concerned that I might form a hole instead of a recess.
If it had gone wrong there was plenty of support for the timing gear axle and I knew I could patch a hole from inside the base if necessary. Milling with the boring head was a very noisy affair - lots of screeching right through to the final cut yet the tool appeared to be cutting perfectly well.
Andy
Title: Re: Retlas
Post by: Alyn Foundry on January 28, 2016, 05:36:15 PM
Hi Andy.

Great progress !!

This might be the first Retlas to have straight pushrods ?

I added extra material to the inlet and exhaust pads of the cylinder and also added extra to the back of the valve chest castings.

Re the screeching, was your boring bar a little on the slender side?  Alex would have said that you had made dust not swarf, he always made swarf!!   ;)

Kind regards, Graham.
Title: Re: Retlas
Post by: Chipmaster on January 28, 2016, 06:28:51 PM
Hi Graham, yes ok dust all,over the place, vacuum doing overtime with all this iron dust. It was a half inch boring bar about four inches long and the boring head is an old Enco that seems to be in good order. I wonder if the geometry of the tool was a factor because there was negligible end rake in the position / mounting of the triangular insert. Or perhaps my poor old Archdale milling machine is telling me somthing. :old:
Off to the monthly meeting of the Black Contry Live Steamers tonight. :)
Andy
Title: Re: Retlas
Post by: Chipmaster on January 30, 2016, 08:54:35 PM
The crankshaft was a job I that I approached with some trepidation.  Retlas has a stroke of 3", the largest crank I have made so far is the 2" stroke  crankshaft for my Alyn Foundry Gardner O Type which was machined from flame cut steel plate. Machining a Retlas sized crankshaft from the solid  would consume a lot of time and I wasn't keen on machining the crankpin between those webs.
So, with my confidence boosted by Jason and Graham's advice I made a fabricated silver soldered crank using 12" of 3/4" ground EN1A mild steel and an eight inch length of 1.5" x 5/8" flat mild steel.
Couldn't obtain 1.1/4" x 5/8" so I had to mill the 1.5" x 5/8" steel flat down to size for the webs. After the material for the webs was reduced to the correct width it was sawn in half and the two pieces glued and bolted together. The webs were marked out and the holes for the 3/4" shaft and crank pin bored out on my lathe to ensure they would be parallel. The big end is 5/8" diameter and 3/4" wide, I stepped the ends of crank pin down to 1/2" to fit in the webs. A gap of 0.001" was allowed in the joints for the solder's capillary action. Correction fluid painted over the crankpin kept the silver solder off the bearing surface.
The pictures below tell the story, I was very pleased that the crankshaft  stayed straight after being subject to the heat of the soldering process. Some cleaning up and polishing remains to be done, that can be done while some other job is on the lathe or milling machine with the power feed engaged.
Andy
Title: Re: Retlas
Post by: Chipmaster on February 01, 2016, 08:14:23 AM
The two eccentric straps were machined next, each step was pretty straightforward . Boring out the centres was left as the last operation because thin iron castings like these can be delicate  ::). I finished these the day before I broke my Stuart Major valve chest which was much thicker. http://www.modelenginemaker.com/index.php/topic,3389.0/all.html#lastPost
Anyway the machining is done they just need a bit more cleaning up.

Andy
Title: Re: Retlas
Post by: Roger B on February 01, 2016, 09:27:43 AM
That crankshaft turned out very nicely  :ThumbsUp:  :ThumbsUp:
Title: Re: Retlas
Post by: Chipmaster on February 01, 2016, 10:13:53 AM
Yes thanks Roger  I was both pleased and relieved with the result.
The next job on the crankshaft will be to mill kegyways in the shafts for fixing the flywheel and timing gear. I have found the fitting of Gib keys to both models and full size engines to be a time consuming process, perhaps due to the limitstions of my equipment or technique.
So, hoping to get a better / faster result I'm waiting for the delivery of Gib Head keys from Tasman Industries, Stourbridge UK http://www.keysandpins.com/ecommerce.
I'm going to fit 3/16" keys rather than the 1/4" specified because a 1/4" keyway in the timing gear appeared to remove too much material for comfort?
Andy
Title: Re: Retlas
Post by: Alyn Foundry on February 01, 2016, 11:53:29 AM
Hi Andy.

This forum moves fast, I had completely missed your post on the crankshaft! It's looking great.

I have to agree with your intention of going with 3/8" keys, more in keeping with the original.

In the early days we used to hand file the keyway, both messy and inaccurate! Alex suggested the Du Mont broach and bush system. Expensive yes, initially, but over time they really paid for themselves. I now have all the imperial sizes from 3/32 " to 3/8" . We discovered very quickly that the bushes supplied were of no use for our application being far to short, so we made longer ones to support the broach over the full length. We used thin strips of shim Steel for the incremental cutting method.

Gib head keys have a taper of 1:100 as does the broach, I know I'm going to get a " ticking off " for this but we just pushed the broach, on the final cut up to the last tooth to enter and then pushed it back out.
It was Roland ( Mery engine ) who suggested bushes with the 1:100 taper so you could push right on through.

The keys are usually slightly oversize requiring a little hand finishing we used a medium, flat oilstone to remove the last thou or two. The final result was a well secured and true running flywheel. Oh another tip, put your keyway between spokes as sometimes they are stubborn to remove necessitating the use of a drift which can be passed between the flywheel spokes, much more difficult when there's a spike in the way!

Fiddly bits to come!!

Kind regards, Graham. 
Title: Re: Retlas
Post by: Jasonb on February 01, 2016, 01:19:12 PM
I prefer to make my keys from rectangular key steel, if you leave it on the bar it gives you plenty to get hold of so its easy to pull out while tweaking the fit. I have made a few bushes with a tapered slot so it cuts a matching taper in the flywheel.

Also watch the taper, metric are 1:100 but imperial are 1:96 (1/8 to the foot) not that it makes a lot of difference in our sizes.

(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v156/jasonballamy/Hit%20n%20Miss/1-3rd%20Galloway/IMAG2400_zpsfada20ac.jpg)
Title: Re: Retlas
Post by: Alyn Foundry on February 01, 2016, 02:20:55 PM
Hello Jason.

I assume that you've machined a taper on your rectangular key steel?  ;)

With so many of our engines using 1/8" Gib head keys I bought a box of 200, they worked out at 60 pence each........ A real time saver!!

Kind regards, Graham.
Title: Re: Retlas
Post by: Jasonb on February 01, 2016, 04:26:14 PM
Graham, yes I machine the requiered length down to a slight taper and then hand fit as needed. I have shown it in other threads but this is how is set a taper, 1:48 in this case

(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v156/jasonballamy/Engineering/Tidman%20Organ%20Engine/DSC00444_zpsy1u2azac.jpg)

What you can't see in that earlier photo is the pair of mole grips on the end of the keysteel which can be tapped with a hammer to withdraw the key, once happy with the fit I say off the key leaving enough of the rectangular section to form a head

(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v156/jasonballamy/Hit%20n%20Miss/Half%20Scale%20Gade/PICT0495_zpseznlon0x.jpg)
Title: Re: Retlas
Post by: Chipmaster on February 01, 2016, 04:50:20 PM
Keyways:
Graham, reckon a 3/8" key might be a typo?
Anyway I had the 3/16" keyways done well in advance early last December, a picture of the gear is included below.
My friend Brian broached the keyways in the flywheel and timing gear using his Jones & Shipman press with a set of imperial broaches that included a variety of bushes, tables and shims. We double checked the spec using a Machinery's Handbook. The broach was pushed right through so there's no taper in the hub. It only took about ten minutes to broach both the flywheel and timing gear.

I chose to leave the Retlas flywheel hub pretty deep - almost 2". For smaller engines I have formed keyways by mounting the flywheel on the lathe and  forcing through the appropriate shaped tool mounted in a boring bar. However, there's no way I could achieve a decent result on a hub 2" deep. It's tough on the lathe so I wouldn't go back to that method, I recommend making friends with someone who owns the proper broaching kit which gives a far superior result.

Jason - I have also used rectangular key steel for the same reason, and with micrometer blue. That stuff is incredibly messy! The tin I'm using was given to me by a retired engineer and is probably over 50 years old with 75% still left in the tin !
Which engine is featured in your picture, the paintwork looks incredible.

Andy
Title: Re: Retlas
Post by: Chipmaster on February 01, 2016, 04:56:21 PM
Hi Jason, I will leave a gap between the hub and head of the gib key so I can use a fox wedge to remove it if necessary.

Andy
Title: Re: Retlas
Post by: Chipmaster on February 01, 2016, 05:02:19 PM
Jason, I meant to ask you where you obtained the drip feed oiler in your picture showing the key being fitted. It looks like the size threaded 1/8" BSP that I used to be able to obtain from Graham Engineering (long gone)  in West Bromwich years ago. I think they used to cost £5 or £6 possibly 15 years ago.

Cheers
Andy
Title: Re: Retlas
Post by: Jasonb on February 01, 2016, 05:11:01 PM
The one with the long keyway sticking out is the Galloway (http://smg.photobucket.com/user/jasonballamy/library/Hit%20n%20Miss/1-3rd%20Galloway), The one with the key head (and small gap) is the Gade (http://smg.photobucket.com/user/jasonballamy/library/Hit%20n%20Miss/Half%20Scale%20Gade).

I have made all the oilers and greasers on the engines, let me know if you need a drawing.

I bought a set of small broaches 1/16, 3/32 & 1/8 and bushes which work well and can be pushed in with the drill press and also got a separate 3/16" one but have to borrow a press for that. As you say a lot easier than going back and forth on the lathe.
Title: Re: Retlas
Post by: Alyn Foundry on February 01, 2016, 05:18:39 PM
Hi Andy.

No, not a typo, I have a 3/8 " broach. It's the largest in my set.

Have I read you correctly? If you have pushed the broach all the way through your flywheel hub then you will have a parallel keyway.

Kind regards, Graham.
Title: Re: Retlas
Post by: Alyn Foundry on February 01, 2016, 05:20:25 PM
Hi Jason.

Thanks for the clarification, all clear and understood.

Kind regards, Graham.
Title: Re: Retlas
Post by: Alyn Foundry on February 01, 2016, 05:29:46 PM
Jason, I meant to ask you where you obtained the drip feed oiler in your picture showing the key being fitted. It looks like the size threaded 1/8" BSP that I used to be able to obtain from Graham Engineering (long gone)  in West Bromwich years ago. I think they used to cost £5 or £6 possibly 15 years ago.

Cheers
Andy

Hi Andy.

That takes me back!!

We used to buy them at 100 a time from Graham engineering. I loved that place almost like a supermarket you just walked around putting stuff into your shopping basket. The prices were always reasonable and sometimes there were some rather unusual items, special tooling from bankrupt firms. I bought several long shank drill reamer combos for line boring.

Kind regards, Graham.
Title: Re: Retlas
Post by: Jasonb on February 01, 2016, 05:31:08 PM
This is the picture I was looking for, seems I had not uploaded it to Photobucket :-[

1/8x 1/4 keysteel milled to appros 1/8 x 1/8 tapered on height with the vicegrips on the end.

(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v156/jasonballamy/Engineering/Tidman%20Organ%20Engine/DSC00446_zpsej4zot7q.jpg)
Title: Re: Retlas
Post by: Chipmaster on February 01, 2016, 06:12:18 PM
Hi Graham, the broach went right through the timing gear but I don't think it went right through the flywheel but if it turns out that I've got a parallel keyway I'll have to add a little taper using a file.
For a few years I worked in West Bromwich so Graham Engineering was extremely useful for me, their stock was terrific. That was a long way for you to travel.
Andy
Title: Re: Retlas
Post by: Alyn Foundry on February 01, 2016, 06:34:01 PM
Hi Graham, the broach went right through the timing gear but I don't think it went right through the flywheel but if it turns out that I've got a parallel keyway I'll have to add a little taper using a file.
For a few years I worked in West Bromwich so Graham Engineering was extreemly useful for me, their stock was terrific. That was a long way for you to travel.
Andy

Hi Andy.

Yes indeed, two hours but worth every minute. I always felt like a child in a sweet shop !!   :)

Re the oilers.. It would seem that well known British lathe manufacturer is selling the very same Taiwanese lubricators..... Hmmm there's quite a mark up too.

Kind regards, Graham.   
Title: Re: Retlas
Post by: Chipmaster on February 05, 2016, 02:37:15 PM
I milled the 3/16" wide keyways in the crankshafts to match the keyways broached in flywheel and timing gear. It is difficult to see what's happening when using a small slot drill in my Clarkson milling chuck.
The gib head keys seemed to be a good fit but I won't hammer them home until the end of the build.

Andy
Title: Re: Retlas
Post by: Alyn Foundry on February 05, 2016, 02:53:46 PM
Hi Andy.

I agree, it's quite difficult to see what's going on that's why I used to use the horizontal milling attachment on the Denbigh. Having two milling machines is wonderful if you have the space.

Kind regards, Graham.
Title: Re: Retlas
Post by: Chipmaster on February 05, 2016, 03:21:38 PM
Hi Graham,

Even more difficult was the gib head key with a reverse taper.
I spent quite some time messing about trying to fit a brand new commercially manufactured key . When measured I found the key was tapered the wrong way - the height of the key decreased approaching the head !!  ::).

Anyway, the eccentrics and the eccentric strap retaining washers were straightforward machining operations on the lathe.

That brings my build log up to date, I'm going to start work on the valve chests but I'll have to think about making valve seat cutters first.

Andy
Title: Re: Retlas
Post by: Chipmaster on February 08, 2016, 08:25:13 PM
Spent yesterday assisting my friend exhibit at the Steam Toys In Action (STIA) event held at the Abbey Road Pumping Station Leicester http://www.abbeypumpingstation.org/  - an annual event that always attracts thousands of visitors.
Andy
Title: Re: Retlas
Post by: Chipmaster on February 08, 2016, 08:50:51 PM
Did a bit more work to finish the half time gear and eccentrics today.
The hub of the 60 tooth half time gear has to be opened up to 1/2" and the projecting section of the hub removed to make way for one of the eccentrics This was done after centring the gear in a four jaw chuck the teeth were protected with pieces of copper. The 60 tooth gear and the two eccentrics are bored out to 1/2" and they're all intended to rotate together directly on a 1/2" steel axle. I would prefer to have a bronze bush running on the steel axle but haven't got bronze near that size at the moment so I made the temporary steel bush seen in the pictures below. It has a 3/8 bore and is running on a plain 3/8" diameter Whitworth bolt at the moment.
The inboard / inlet eccentric is fixed to the gearwheel with a 2 BA countersunk screw, the exhaust eccentric won't be fixed until the valve timing has been determined.

Andy
Title: Re: Retlas
Post by: Jasonb on February 08, 2016, 08:54:06 PM
Comming along well.

I've just started on a Debolt Allman and that has a very similar eccentric arrangement
Title: Re: Retlas
Post by: Chipmaster on February 08, 2016, 09:11:18 PM
Hi Jason, I haven't seen a Debolt Allman so I'd like to know more about it. Does the model use a commercially produced set of castings?
I think Graham Corry referred to Allman engines some time ago so did Alyn foundry sell castings for Debolt Allman engines at some time?

Andy

Title: Re: Retlas
Post by: Jasonb on February 09, 2016, 07:53:38 AM
This (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dJGOSBTv5mg) is a nice one. The Debolt (http://www.deboltmachine.com/id8.html) like all there kits was limited in production and has not been made since 1991 so you need to know the right people to get a set of matured castings ;) Having said that I think it would be quite an easy engine to fabricate

It is similar to one of the Allman engines that Graham did but I'm after getting the IF Allman one from him (hint, hint Graham) which ha sa pair of A frames rather than the tuning fork frame

I'll do a build thread on it after the Jowitt build is written up but here are a couple of pics

(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v156/jasonballamy/Hit%20n%20Miss/1-3rd%20Scale%20Allman%20c1890/Allman%20castings%201_zpsxoppgpb8.jpg)

(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v156/jasonballamy/Hit%20n%20Miss/1-3rd%20Scale%20Allman%20c1890/DSC00795_zpsf3grjxcu.jpg)

J
Title: Re: Retlas
Post by: Alyn Foundry on February 09, 2016, 01:12:59 PM
Hi Jason, I haven't seen a Debolt Allman so I'd like to know more about it. Does the model use a commercially produced set of castings?
I think Graham Corry referred to Allman engines some time ago so did Alyn foundry sell castings for Debolt Allman engines at some time?

Andy

Hi Andy.

No, Vincent again! Yet another of his scaled from a picture jobs!! This time American Gasoline engines.

The first A&T he built used sqew gears and a hollow side shaft, being hollow allowed him to use a flyball governor with the control rod running through it. Vincent sold that engine a long time ago, it's never been seen since.

The closest to original was the one I built that had a fully functional hit and miss governor mainly thanks to the patent drawings that the later I F Allman were scaled from.

Sorry for the digression, your halftime gear and eccentrics look great, looking forward to your further progress.

Kind regards, Graham.
Title: Re: Retlas
Post by: Chipmaster on February 21, 2016, 04:51:24 AM
Carried out some work on the Retlas Exhaust Valve Chest yesterday afternoon.
Here is the plan of the cast iron component.
(https://farm2.staticflickr.com/1681/25037332692_2133a606c6_z.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/E9sSHS)208 Retlas Exhaust Valve Chest (https://flic.kr/p/E9sSHS) by Andy (https://www.flickr.com/photos/116764188@N08/), on Flickr

My first task was milling the larger surfaces (port face, top, valve guide, stud locations) so that I could decide and mark out where the various holes would be drilled. The large nut in the next picture was the first thing that came to hand to help clamp the casting in the milling vice.
(https://farm2.staticflickr.com/1694/25128060666_323113dfe0_z.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/EhtSZh)Building Retlas (403) (https://flic.kr/p/EhtSZh) by Andy (https://www.flickr.com/photos/116764188@N08/), on Flickr
(https://farm2.staticflickr.com/1589/24858749180_d24c4a7301_z.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/DSFA4N)Building Retlas (404) (https://flic.kr/p/DSFA4N) by Andy (https://www.flickr.com/photos/116764188@N08/), on Flickr

I glued the valve chest to the port face of the cylinder for drilling and tapping the two 2ba mounting studs.
(https://farm2.staticflickr.com/1484/24785919979_d8fa365fcb_z.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/DLfjtV)Building Retlas 407 (https://flic.kr/p/DLfjtV) by Andy (https://www.flickr.com/photos/116764188@N08/), on Flickr
(https://farm2.staticflickr.com/1484/25060354501_040b9c7ddb_z.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/EbuSiB)Building Retlas 408 (https://flic.kr/p/EbuSiB) by Andy (https://www.flickr.com/photos/116764188@N08/), on Flickr
(https://farm2.staticflickr.com/1621/25035362992_9627411968_z.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/E9hMcw)Building Retlas 409 (https://flic.kr/p/E9hMcw) by Andy (https://www.flickr.com/photos/116764188@N08/), on Flickr
(https://farm2.staticflickr.com/1538/25153630685_c2930b085a_z.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/EjJW4F)Building Retlas 410 (https://flic.kr/p/EjJW4F) by Andy (https://www.flickr.com/photos/116764188@N08/), on Flickr
(https://farm2.staticflickr.com/1518/24857965390_3244e20567_z.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/DSBz5b)Building Retlas 411 (https://flic.kr/p/DSBz5b) by Andy (https://www.flickr.com/photos/116764188@N08/), on Flickr

The face where the exhaust outlet is to be formed is at 45 degrees to the back of the valve chest so I bolted it to a piece of gauge plate and set the plate at 45 degrees in my milling machine
(https://farm2.staticflickr.com/1549/24857973360_5dfe38d747_z.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/DSBBrA)Building Retlas 414 (https://flic.kr/p/DSBBrA) by Andy (https://www.flickr.com/photos/116764188@N08/), on Flickr

Milled as much of the surface flat as I could, the casting was slightly malformed in this area so I stopped milling the surface when there was a sufficient area to go in with a 3/8" BSP thread.

(https://farm2.staticflickr.com/1505/24785938399_896fbf4642_z.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/DLfpXv)Building Retlas 415 (https://flic.kr/p/DLfpXv) by Andy (https://www.flickr.com/photos/116764188@N08/), on Flickr

You might notice how the casting slopes away prematurely just in front of the 19/32" drill in the next photo.

(https://farm2.staticflickr.com/1694/24785945839_09901d8aa8_z.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/DLfsaM)Building Retlas 418 (https://flic.kr/p/DLfsaM) by Andy (https://www.flickr.com/photos/116764188@N08/), on Flickr

Starting off a 3/8" BSP tap.
(https://farm2.staticflickr.com/1610/24526795733_9a9dcdee2e_z.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/DnmeSv)Building Retlas 419 (https://flic.kr/p/DnmeSv) by Andy (https://www.flickr.com/photos/116764188@N08/), on Flickr

Having a go with a modest sized tap holder...
(https://farm2.staticflickr.com/1503/24522968144_8c395cd6eb_z.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/Dn1C4A)Building Retlas 420 (https://flic.kr/p/Dn1C4A) by Andy (https://www.flickr.com/photos/116764188@N08/), on Flickr

I had to use a much larger tap holder to do the job. Notice the red paint here and there - I had an accident stirring paint with a Dremel a few months ago.
(https://farm2.staticflickr.com/1673/24857991170_9c1859fa46_z.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/DSBGJE)Building Retlas 422 (https://flic.kr/p/DSBGJE) by Andy (https://www.flickr.com/photos/116764188@N08/), on Flickr

Exhaust Valve chest back on the cylinder.
(https://farm2.staticflickr.com/1637/25035394132_80ab664d26_z.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/E9hWsq)Building Retlas 423 (https://flic.kr/p/E9hWsq) by Andy (https://www.flickr.com/photos/116764188@N08/), on Flickr

Coming soon - drilling the pocket for the valve and the port into the cylinder.

Andy


Title: Re: Retlas
Post by: Chipmaster on February 23, 2016, 10:46:54 AM
Did some more work on the exhaust valve chest yesterday. I drilled the valve guide hole from the underside of the casting. Having measured up the casting I knew that I would have to machine the boss around the hole to achieve concentricity.

(https://farm2.staticflickr.com/1661/25081063252_0d13246257_z.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/Edk1i3)Building Retlas 424 (2) (https://flic.kr/p/Edk1i3) by Andy (https://www.flickr.com/photos/116764188@N08/), on Flickr

(https://farm2.staticflickr.com/1496/24572507373_3961a7cfa3_z.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/Drowme)Building Retlas 428 (https://flic.kr/p/Drowme) by Andy (https://www.flickr.com/photos/116764188@N08/), on Flickr

(https://farm2.staticflickr.com/1474/25106084861_f5c6c6e526_z.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/Efxfm6)Building Retlas 429 (https://flic.kr/p/Efxfm6) by Andy (https://www.flickr.com/photos/116764188@N08/), on Flickr

On to the pillar drill to drill the valve pocket.
(https://farm2.staticflickr.com/1485/24568652314_a767f28fa7_z.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/Dr3LnG)Building Retlas 433 (https://flic.kr/p/Dr3LnG) by Andy (https://www.flickr.com/photos/116764188@N08/), on Flickr
(https://farm2.staticflickr.com/1585/24568641374_39237fae7e_z.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/Dr3H85)Building Retlas 438 (https://flic.kr/p/Dr3H85) by Andy (https://www.flickr.com/photos/116764188@N08/), on Flickr

(https://farm2.staticflickr.com/1550/24903680050_a2356b13ae_z.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/DWDSrY)Building Retlas 436 (https://flic.kr/p/DWDSrY) by Andy (https://www.flickr.com/photos/116764188@N08/), on Flickr

I'll bore a passage from the exhaust outlet through to the valve pocket and the port from the cylinder today.

Andy
Title: Re: Retlas
Post by: Chipmaster on February 23, 2016, 09:11:18 PM
Worked on the exhaust valve chest this afternoon. The plans show circular a 1/2" diameter exhaust port through the cylinder to meet up with the 5/16" high by 9/16" wide horizontal slot milled in the valve chest. I fancied milling a matching slot in the cylinder which was a bit awkward owing to the depth of the slot and my 5/16 slot drill being too short. Anyway I got there using a long 1/4" slot drill and a file.
Andy




Title: Re: Retlas
Post by: Jasonb on February 24, 2016, 07:42:46 AM
Looking good Andy, just quietly following along.
Title: Re: Retlas
Post by: Chipmaster on February 24, 2016, 05:03:03 PM
To complete the valve chest casting I made a 45 degree piloted seat cutter, it was 0.6" diameter heat treated silver steel held in my 3/4" chuck...I mistakenly made it an anti clockwise - left handed tool. However, it did the job and probably won't be used again.
(https://farm2.staticflickr.com/1955/45756004471_7ba8ca5636_c.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/2cHiu1P)Building Retlas 450 (https://flic.kr/p/2cHiu1P) by Andy (https://www.flickr.com/photos/116764188@N08/), on Flickr

Valve seat,
(https://farm2.staticflickr.com/1709/25226990675_fea7820818_b.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/ErdVr6)Building Retlas 456 (https://flic.kr/p/ErdVr6) by Andy (https://www.flickr.com/photos/116764188@N08/), on Flickr

View of the exhaust outlet showing the 1/4" hole drilled through to the valve pocket.
(https://farm5.staticflickr.com/4895/31884369828_f31da957a4_c.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/QzvJjh)Building Retlas 455 (https://flic.kr/p/QzvJjh) by Andy (https://www.flickr.com/photos/116764188@N08/), on Flickr
Andy
Title: Re: Retlas
Post by: Hugh Currin on February 24, 2016, 11:00:19 PM
Andy:

You mention "Notice the red paint here and there - I had an accident stirring paint with a Dremel a few months ago." Far better than "Notice the red blood here and there - I had an accident stirring paint with a Dremel a few months ago." Sure glad it's the former.

I've made two special single purpose tools in the last couple of weeks. The first, as yours did, came out a left handed tool. And even after that experience the second came out, you guessed it, left handed. I suspect you've learned and I hope I will one of these days.

Very nice work on the engine. Thanks for posting the build.

Hugh
Title: Re: Retlas
Post by: Chipmaster on February 25, 2016, 11:37:36 AM
Yes Hugh, it looked like the Texas Chainsaw Massacre, 500 cc of red paint over everything at waist height. It went straight  through my clothes and was very difficult to get off some of my parts ! Initially my appearance gave my wife a laugh but it took a couple of weeks to get rid of the red hue on my midfield area. At 3,500 rpm the centrifugal force bent the 3mm shaft of my home made stirrer then the fun started.

The lesson: stir paint by hand or make sure the Dremel isn't set at its highest speed when you put the stirrer in the paint and turn it on - and put the paint pot in a box or something to contain the paint if it goes wrong.

Andy
Title: Re: Retlas
Post by: Myrickman on February 28, 2016, 11:03:51 PM
Late to this picnic...but now staying to watch. Andy, this is a really neat vertical....I like verticals! Being from across the pond, I was unaware of the Gardner vertical or reasonable facsimile. The valve gear is clever. Like the way you bored the cylinder casting on the lathe. Fascinating engine and build. Paul
Title: Re: Retlas
Post by: Chipmaster on March 01, 2016, 08:36:03 PM
Hi Paul, yes this engine will be unusual. As you can read in an earlier post there may be a couple of surviving engines that the model is based on but no photographic evidence. Anyway, so far so good making steady progress working on the castings just the inlet valve chest and the piston then I can have a break from machining iron and work with cleaner metals.
Andy
Title: Re: Retlas
Post by: Jasonb on March 01, 2016, 08:41:23 PM
This is a photo of the vertical Gardner ;)
Title: Re: Retlas
Post by: Chipmaster on March 01, 2016, 09:03:49 PM
I started work on the inlet valve chest by cleaning up the flat surfaces using my milling machine.
(https://farm2.staticflickr.com/1655/25121711780_30ecceec73_z.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/EgVkFJ)211 Retlas Inlet Valve Chest (https://flic.kr/p/EgVkFJ) by Andy (https://www.flickr.com/photos/116764188@N08/), on Flickr

(https://farm5.staticflickr.com/4851/31884391288_bee205b548_c.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/QzvQGh)Building Retlas (286) (https://flic.kr/p/QzvQGh) by Andy (https://www.flickr.com/photos/116764188@N08/), on Flickr

The two studs holding the inlet valve chest to the cylinder had to be closer together than planned because  the casting tapered inwards towards the back where the mounting studs pass through.  I had to position them carefully to avoid the drill breaking out through the sides of the casting. This is just a cosmetic thing and I'll probably blend the casting in with the cylinder using a die grinder later on or perhaps I can use some sort of metal filler.

Today I got as far as mounting the inlet valve chest on the cylinder.
(https://farm2.staticflickr.com/1577/25132377319_b677b2632e_z.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/EhS1bk)Building Retlas 472 (https://flic.kr/p/EhS1bk) by Andy (https://www.flickr.com/photos/116764188@N08/), on Flickr


(https://farm2.staticflickr.com/1609/25204315830_8feedcca4c_z.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/EpdGZu)Building Retlas 476 (https://flic.kr/p/EpdGZu) by Andy (https://www.flickr.com/photos/116764188@N08/), on Flickr
(https://farm2.staticflickr.com/1665/25473860976_4965a52271_z.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/EP3cnA)Building Retlas 475 (https://flic.kr/p/EP3cnA) by Andy (https://www.flickr.com/photos/116764188@N08/), on Flickr
I should be able to form the valve pockets and ports by using my pillar drill except for milling the connecting port through to the inlet port in the cylinder..
Andy
Title: Re: Retlas
Post by: Chipmaster on March 01, 2016, 09:20:17 PM
Hi Jason, I was alluding to a post by Graham early in this thread. I assumed this referred to two original engines that still exist. It would be good to see modern detailed pictures of these engines.

"...............two vertical Gardner engines have surfaced but due to the rarity the owners wish to remain anonymous."

Andy
Title: Re: Retlas
Post by: Chipmaster on March 04, 2016, 03:18:35 PM
The rest of the work on the inlet valve chest was done using a pillar drill, the pictures aren't interesting, no fancy set ups just various drills disappearing into the casting.
(https://farm2.staticflickr.com/1646/25472972106_beda33ed9b_z.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/ENXD9f)Building Retlas 478 (https://flic.kr/p/ENXD9f) by Andy (https://www.flickr.com/photos/116764188@N08/), on Flickr

(https://farm2.staticflickr.com/1692/24868525594_e832925ba5_z.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/DTxGfE)Building Retlas 483 (https://flic.kr/p/DTxGfE) by Andy (https://www.flickr.com/photos/116764188@N08/), on Flickr

(https://farm2.staticflickr.com/1554/24872344413_abe14871b7_z.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/DTTgsn)Building Retlas 486 (https://flic.kr/p/DTTgsn) by Andy (https://www.flickr.com/photos/116764188@N08/), on Flickr

Milling the inlet port which leads from the valve chest to the cylinder.
(https://farm2.staticflickr.com/1452/25203460640_723df2b53e_z.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/Ep9jLQ)Building Retlas 488 (https://flic.kr/p/Ep9jLQ) by Andy (https://www.flickr.com/photos/116764188@N08/), on Flickr

This is an extract from the cylinder drawing showing the cylinder from above with holes for the five studs and three water passages. Early on in this build when machining the cylinder I chose to move one water passage (arrowed ) because it was so close to the inlet port that there was a risk the holes breaking through. You can see on the next couple of pictures that there is plenty of scope to put the water passage in a less risky position.
(https://farm2.staticflickr.com/1587/24872974853_d6636bce70_z.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/DTWuS2)Retlas Cylinder Liner Drawing (https://flic.kr/p/DTWuS2) by Andy (https://www.flickr.com/photos/116764188@N08/), on Flickr

(https://farm2.staticflickr.com/1512/25380587092_e7270375c1_z.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/EEN9ib)Building Retlas 491 (https://flic.kr/p/EEN9ib) by Andy (https://www.flickr.com/photos/116764188@N08/), on Flickr

(https://farm2.staticflickr.com/1559/24868507174_af920d6f59_z.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/DTxAM5)Building Retlas 490 (https://flic.kr/p/DTxAM5) by Andy (https://www.flickr.com/photos/116764188@N08/), on Flickr

With both of the valve chest castings completed here are a few pictures of the engine so far. Blending these valve chests in with the cylinder casting would need a lot of grinding, filing and filling if I decide to attempt the challenge.

(https://farm2.staticflickr.com/1611/24872323593_44cab66db7_z.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/DTTagp)Building Retlas 494 (https://flic.kr/p/DTTagp) by Andy (https://www.flickr.com/photos/116764188@N08/), on Flickr
(https://farm2.staticflickr.com/1565/25499035435_987cdd091e_z.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/ERgdRZ)Building Retlas 495 (https://flic.kr/p/ERgdRZ) by Andy (https://www.flickr.com/photos/116764188@N08/), on Flickr
(https://farm2.staticflickr.com/1702/25131496619_e640f55970_z.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/EhMunR)Building Retlas 496 (https://flic.kr/p/EhMunR) by Andy (https://www.flickr.com/photos/116764188@N08/), on Flickr
(https://farm2.staticflickr.com/1563/25406214781_d5c5a88101_z.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/EH4uvT)Building Retlas 498 (https://flic.kr/p/EH4uvT) by Andy (https://www.flickr.com/photos/116764188@N08/), on Flickr
(https://farm2.staticflickr.com/1494/25499023775_878ac58d7d_z.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/ERgaoX)Building Retlas 499 (https://flic.kr/p/ERgaoX) by Andy (https://www.flickr.com/photos/116764188@N08/), on Flickr
(https://farm2.staticflickr.com/1443/25380556432_c2ddaa9b3e_z.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/EEMZby)Building Retlas 503 (https://flic.kr/p/EEMZby) by Andy (https://www.flickr.com/photos/116764188@N08/), on Flickr
(https://farm2.staticflickr.com/1546/25472891966_b573b6b9f5_z.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/ENXejw)Building Retlas 506 (https://flic.kr/p/ENXejw) by Andy (https://www.flickr.com/photos/116764188@N08/), on Flickr
(https://farm2.staticflickr.com/1699/25203408960_a12670641f_z.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/Ep94pN)Building Retlas 507 (https://flic.kr/p/Ep94pN) by Andy (https://www.flickr.com/photos/116764188@N08/), on Flickr
(https://farm2.staticflickr.com/1614/24872296893_958273d23d_z.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/DTT2k4)Building Retlas 504 (https://flic.kr/p/DTT2k4) by Andy (https://www.flickr.com/photos/116764188@N08/), on Flickr

Andy
Title: Re: Retlas
Post by: Alyn Foundry on March 04, 2016, 03:54:09 PM
Hello Andy.

Looking good !!  :)

I was a little puzzled to start with, regarding the cylinder pad discrepancy and then remembered you had taken a miss shape !! That casting had parted the boxes during the pour resulting in an oval shape and extra width to the pads. I assume you'll be at it with a die grinder?

When you think about the original what amazing dexterity those moulders had. As both the yoke, cylinder and head were one single casting with a core placed to provide a water jacket. Real craftsmen !!

Kind regards, Graham.
Title: Re: Retlas
Post by: Chipmaster on March 04, 2016, 05:27:13 PM
Good afternoon Graham,
 
Reckon I'll have to use an angle grinder as well as a die grinder and a Dremel too but not until it's warm enough to do it outside on a piece of land alongside my garage.
It's a pity the direction some of these grinding tools run in can't be reversed. I'm right handed, when I use my die grinder or Dremel the dust always goes all over me and my face.
I was thinking that if the valve chests and cylinder were painted with Matt black HT paint the discrepancies might not be noticeable but now it's assembled I don't think so.
Andy
Title: Re: Retlas
Post by: Alyn Foundry on March 04, 2016, 05:59:56 PM
Hello Andy.

In the past I was rather lucky being ambidextrous, I was at home with either hand, sadly an old injury has now added arthritis to my left hand making the use very painful, ah old age eh?  ;)

I was looking at the print Jason posted on the previous page, do you know I had never spotted the " Stirrup " on the exhaust valve before ? Are you going to try it ? A lot of early gas engines used this practice as compression springs were quite weak and prone to losing their tension particularly on the exhaust side that gets hot.

I would also like to suggest that you study the Horizontal engine governor assembly as it appears Gardner's used the same method on the vertical engine.

Kind regards, Graham.
Title: Re: Retlas
Post by: Chipmaster on March 04, 2016, 06:43:48 PM
Hi Graham,
 is the stirrup arrangement for the exhaust valve spring just the same as the Gardner O type that I built  from your castings almost 20 years ago.
I thought the inertia governor as set out in your plans is similar to the horizontal "O type governor. The O type governor has a light bias coil spring to adjust the trigger opening the gas valve whereas the Retlas appears to use a weight that is moved along an arm for speed adjustment. If only we could see that sort of detail in pictures of those two survivors you told us about.

Andy
Title: Re: Retlas
Post by: Alyn Foundry on March 04, 2016, 07:09:07 PM
Hi Andy.

Yes it is the very same, only slightly larger.

The governor used on the vertical engine is exactly the same as the size " 1 " horizontal, in fact the vertical was just a size " 1 " turned through 90 deg.  There may have been bigger sizes made, Geoff recently told me of a size " 9 " horizontal appearing, it's massive !! As a BTW I have some copies of AE & H Robinson sales brochures they were advertising a 10 HP oblique engine !!   :o  Imagine that !

Few people know that the Gardner size " 0 " was an afterthought,  sizes 1 to 10 were on offer but there was a market for 3/4, 1 HP engines so the figure 0 was used, hence the Gas bag and exhaust bottles fitted were a bit larger, actually being intended for use with the size " 1 " engine.

Kind regards, Graham.
Title: Re: Retlas
Post by: zeeprogrammer on March 04, 2016, 10:24:43 PM
the pictures aren't interesting

Not so. I'm learning from them.
Title: Re: Retlas
Post by: Alyn Foundry on March 05, 2016, 07:44:57 PM
Good evening Andy.

I spoke with Geoff today and he's taken some close ups of the enclosed crank verticals that directly followed as a result of poor cylinder lubrication.

I hope you find them useful?

Kind regards, Graham.
Title: Re: Retlas
Post by: Chipmaster on March 05, 2016, 08:52:51 PM
Thank you very much for adding those pictures Graham, the family resemblance and development of the governor from the horizontal engines is there to see, my thanks to Geoff.
Is the engine featured fuelled with petrol? I reckon that is the case because it doesn't have two valves on the inlet side?
I can't increase the size of the image of the open crank vertical enough to see the detail of the governor for those earlier engines which have the trigger block positioned 'outboard' whereas the trigger block is inboard between the inlet and exhaust valves in these latest photos. I'll certainly consider whether I can use a spring to control the trigger (not sure of the correct terminology) but it might have to be a hybrid depending on how the essential components can be mounted on the Retlas castings. Perhaps I'll complete the engine as per the plans and get it running before I try enhancements that copy the original engines.
I will make the stirrup and tension spring for the exhaust valve, that will look good.
Andy
Title: Re: Retlas
Post by: Alyn Foundry on March 06, 2016, 03:47:36 PM
Thank you very much for adding those pictures Graham, the family resemblance and development of the governor from the horizontal engines is there to see, my thanks to Geoff.
Is the engine featured fuelled with petrol? I reckon that is the case because it doesn't have two valves on the inlet side?
I can't increase the size of the image of the open crank vertical enough to see the detail of the governor for those earlier engines which have the trigger block positioned 'outboard' whereas the trigger block is inboard between the inlet and exhaust valves in these latest photos. I'll certainly consider whether I can use a spring to control the trigger (not sure of the correct terminology) but it might have to be a hybrid depending on how the essential components can be mounted on the Retlas castings. Perhaps I'll complete the engine as per the plans and get it running before I try enhancements that copy the original engines.
I will make the stirrup and tension spring for the exhaust valve, that will look good.
Andy

Hello Andy.

Yes those are both " Spirit " engines as Gardner's called them.

What isn't shown in the photos is the auxiliary atmospheric air valve " Snifter " in the top of the cylinder head. This allowed the engine to decelerate quietly rather than dynamically as some other hit and miss two valve engines did.

I have to admit I'm really looking forward to the conclusion of your Retlas, as we now know more information than we did nearly thirty years ago !!

Kind regards, Graham.
Title: Re: Retlas
Post by: Chipmaster on March 06, 2016, 05:49:13 PM
Hi Graham, after yet another look at the photos of the original Gardner vertical inlet valve chest, I reckon the positions of the gas and inlet valves are reversed on the Retlas, what do you think? 

The big end bearing also looks different to me, the original appears to be steel throughout probably with bronze shells rather than the large bronze block used in the Retlas plans, could that be due to the National Gas Engine influence as per the studs going through the rebate in the main bearing caps? Reckon I'll make a con rod with a steel cap and bronze shells like the Gardner '0' type model.

Andy
Title: Re: Retlas
Post by: Alyn Foundry on March 06, 2016, 06:20:01 PM
Hi Graham, after yet another look at the photos of the original Gardner vertical inlet valve chest, I reckon the positions of the gas and inlet valves are reversed on the Retlas, what do you think? 

The big end bearing also looks different to me, the original appears to be steel throughout probably with bronze shells rather than the large bronze block used in the Retlas plans, could that be due to the National Gas Engine influence as per the studs going through the rebate in the main bearing caps? Reckon I'll make a con rod with a steel cap and bronze shells like the Gardner '0' type model.

Andy

Hi Andy.

Ah, dear Vincent, he loved his National " K " type. Did I tell you about him having to make a lathe to restore his engine? His father wouldn't let him buy one so he built his own from scrap metal !!

As we now know the Con rod would be all Steel with bearing shells so that's probably your best direction.

Kind regards, Graham.
Title: Re: Retlas
Post by: Jasonb on March 06, 2016, 06:35:15 PM
Yes steel conrod with separate shells , fitted bolts on the big end with nuts and lock nuts at the top and cross drilled for wire/pins. Gudgeon pin cross drilled and in from each end for oiling to the bearing. Should be two bolts to stop the pin moving rather then end pads. There is a sq headed screw and locknut in the end of the little end which I think must be to stop the bearing rotating.

CI bearing caps with oil pockets, separate split bearings. Not studs but fitted bolts passed up from below close to bearing hole but not cutting into it. Straight split on the caps not the legs going down the side of the bearings. good radius on the insides of the bearings to clear fillet on crank and a decorative 1/4 circle concave cut to the outside edge

Air valve on top of cylinder :mischief:
Title: Re: Retlas
Post by: Jasonb on March 06, 2016, 06:49:04 PM
Also big end does not have the greaser but a little "bucket" to catch the oil from the glass oiler on the side of the main body
Title: Re: Retlas
Post by: Alyn Foundry on March 06, 2016, 07:01:39 PM
Yes steel conrod with separate shells , fitted bolts on the big end with nuts and lock nuts at the top and cross drilled for wire/pins. Gudgeon pin cross drilled and in from each end for oiling to the bearing. Should be two bolts to stop the pin moving rather then end pads. There is a sq headed screw and locknut in the end of the little end which I think must be to stop the bearing rotating.

CI bearing caps with oil pockets, separate split bearings. Not studs but fitted bolts passed up from below close to bearing hole but not cutting into it. Straight split on the caps not the legs going down the side of the bearings. good radius on the insides of the bearings to clear fillet on crank and a decorative 1/4 circle concave cut to the outside edge

Air valve on top of cylinder :mischief:

Hi Jason.

Nice to have the engineering drawings !!   ;)

You must have the plan for the Spirit version ?

Kind regards, Graham.
Title: Re: Retlas
Post by: Chipmaster on March 06, 2016, 07:03:02 PM
Hi Jason, I assume your source is the "for my eyes only" drawings. Can you tell me whether the gas and inlet valves on the Retlas are reversed and any info about the trigger mechanism. I see the bucket arrangement to catch oil for big end lubrication - does it catch oil dripping from a thin blade that curves beneath the timing side main bearing similar to the 0 type ?
Regards
Andy
Title: Re: Retlas
Post by: Jasonb on March 06, 2016, 07:17:41 PM
I'll come back to you on the inlet block but being hot tube there are quite a few differences or are you going to do away with the spark plug :naughty:

You can see the sight glass oiler in this etching, a tube that is cut at an oblique angle passes through teh main body casting and is bent downwards and the bucket picks up the drip on the end.

Title: Re: Retlas
Post by: Alyn Foundry on March 06, 2016, 07:22:08 PM
Hi Andy.

I can answer the big end lubrication question.

First look at Jason's post here.  http://www.modelenginemaker.com/index.php/topic,5720.msg115745.html#msg115745

You will see a small Brass lubricator halfway up the yoke casting. This has a Copper tube coming through and bent downwards with the end formed to create an oil droplet. The big end carries a trough that almost touches the tube and pulls off the droplet. Hence very poor lubrication, hit and miss with more miss than hit !!

Kind regards, Graham.

Posts crossed, by gum Jason, your fast !!   :)   That might be the lamp Oil version in that engraving, or Hot tube ignition Spirit engine.
Title: Re: Retlas
Post by: Chipmaster on March 06, 2016, 07:52:39 PM
Thanks for the information chaps - Jason and Graham  :cheers:
I'll make up the big end trough to catch oil droplets, I agree it's more miss than hit, my model Gardner 0 type big end bearing has survived using a similar method. However, I'll have to make arrangements to catch the oil that misses!
I'll keep the spark plug to get the engine going Jason and consider a hot tube later.

Andy
Title: Re: Retlas
Post by: Jasonb on March 06, 2016, 08:02:05 PM
I'll have to make arrangements to catch the oil that misses!.

Andy

Thats what the tap is for at the bottom of the one in the pic above :)
Title: Re: Retlas
Post by: Chipmaster on March 06, 2016, 08:18:41 PM
Yes the tap releases the oil from a sump but the Retlas base has no sump so it will require a tray fitted to catch the surplus oil.  :)
Andy
Title: Re: Retlas
Post by: Chipmaster on March 12, 2016, 08:51:29 AM
Making the connecting rod at the moment, Started with rectangular mild steel bar 16mm thick milled down to 1.75" wide.
Here is the original plan for the Retlas con rod.
(https://farm2.staticflickr.com/1711/25093097043_62ccdf8b14_z.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/EeoFwc)207 Retlas Con-rod (https://flic.kr/p/EeoFwc) by Andy (https://www.flickr.com/photos/116764188@N08/), on Flickr

I have decided to make an all steel con rod with phosphor bronze big end shells which will look like the Gardner Vertical engine and save the cost of a large piece of bronze.

Having marked out the steel bar the first job was to drill and tap two deep 1/4" Whitworth holes in the end, these holes will eventually house plain big end bolts. The end cap is 3/4" deep so I drilled the holes out to !/4" to a depth of 3/4". Centre holes were also drilled in to each end at this stage.

The steel bar was held in a quick change tool holder and lined up with the axis of the lathe. Then, using a large slitting saw the big end cap was sawn off, very slowly with the finest cross feed and a constant trickle of suds oil,  this ensured a square cut with a good finish.
(https://farm2.staticflickr.com/1682/25040335023_9b05cfde02_z.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/E9Jgdc)Building Retlas 510 (https://flic.kr/p/E9Jgdc) by Andy (https://www.flickr.com/photos/116764188@N08/), on Flickr
(https://farm2.staticflickr.com/1589/25040334853_b13f40d7b7_z.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/E9Jgag)Building Retlas 511 (https://flic.kr/p/E9Jgag) by Andy (https://www.flickr.com/photos/116764188@N08/), on Flickr

I couldn't bore the big and little ends of the connecting rod on the face plate of my Colchester Chipmaster, it was too long so the next best method to achieve parallel bores was to use my milling machine. I decided to open out the big end to 7/8" od  for the 5/8" crank pin. I think the extra thickness will help the solder hold when I'm making the bronze split bearing shells.

Little end
(https://farm2.staticflickr.com/1650/25366230110_1c4d4970da_z.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/EDwyt1)Building Retlas 514 (https://flic.kr/p/EDwyt1) by Andy (https://www.flickr.com/photos/116764188@N08/), on Flickr

Big end
(https://farm2.staticflickr.com/1462/25366223490_fdac71cc96_z.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/EDwwuS)Building Retlas 517 (https://flic.kr/p/EDwwuS) by Andy (https://www.flickr.com/photos/116764188@N08/), on Flickr
3/4" drill
(https://farm2.staticflickr.com/1563/25640909076_5c85ddc398_z.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/F4NmXf)Building Retlas 518 (https://flic.kr/p/F4NmXf) by Andy (https://www.flickr.com/photos/116764188@N08/), on Flickr
Boring head to take it out to just under 7/8"
(https://farm2.staticflickr.com/1713/25596497511_fb7739d817_z.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/EZSJWB)Building Retlas 520 (https://flic.kr/p/EZSJWB) by Andy (https://www.flickr.com/photos/116764188@N08/), on Flickr
An old 7/8" reamer
(https://farm2.staticflickr.com/1592/25062434193_8be4bd3908_z.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/EbFwwn)Building Retlas 523 (https://flic.kr/p/EbFwwn) by Andy (https://www.flickr.com/photos/116764188@N08/), on Flickr
Profiling the connecting rod
(https://farm2.staticflickr.com/1452/25596476551_97117973d5_z.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/EZSCHe)Building Retlas 529 (https://flic.kr/p/EZSCHe) by Andy (https://www.flickr.com/photos/116764188@N08/), on Flickr
A long way to go but much easier than using a hacksaw.
(https://farm2.staticflickr.com/1544/25596469531_f803263a6c_z.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/EZSACc)Building Retlas 533 (https://flic.kr/p/EZSACc) by Andy (https://www.flickr.com/photos/116764188@N08/), on Flickr

When I've done the other side I will transfer the connecting rod to my lathe for turning between centres.

Andy
Title: Re: Retlas
Post by: Ian S C on March 12, 2016, 11:24:06 AM
I don't know if it's relevant, or the right way, but it's my way for con rods: as above for the start, but before cutting the cap off, I bore the big end to take the bronze for the bush which is drilled under size, and push it in, then cut though the con rod, and bush, and put  the bolts in the cap, bore/ream the bush to size.  No need for Loctite to hold the bush, and it can't rotate.  Don't know if that would be any use, the largest I'v done that way is 10 mm crank pin size on a hot air engine.
Ian S C
Title: Re: Retlas
Post by: Chipmaster on March 12, 2016, 01:04:54 PM
Hi Ian, I think it's 'horses for courses'. Your approach - boring before cutting, might result in an elliptical hole that the machine reamer (in my  case 7/8" in steel) may have difficulty picking up and getting off to a good start. The thickness of the saw or side & face mill you use to cut off the end cap will determine how out of round the hole will be and suitable for reaming.
I find cutting off the big end cap first helps to ensure that I position the bore of the bearing so that the split bisects the bearing dead centre. Are you using your approach specifically for making aluminium con rods for hot air engines?
Regards
Andy
Title: Re: Retlas
Post by: Jasonb on March 12, 2016, 01:23:57 PM
It does depend on the engine, in this case Ian's way is more like the full size gardner which has a gap between the rod and cap so by doing the hole first and then cutting the saw kerf leaves that gap. But put a finished bearing into the rod.

Other engines suggest putting shims between the two halfs so that they can be removed at a later date if you need to take up bearing wear. Others you have the two parts butted up tight and would either need to make a new bearing or skim the face of teh cap to take up wear.

Bearing rotation can always be countered by having a pin set into the rod and a matching hole in teh bearing which is quite common on full size or use the oiler to stop it rotating. White metal is another option as that won't rotate.
Title: Re: Retlas
Post by: Alyn Foundry on March 12, 2016, 03:55:29 PM
Hi Andy.

Some nice photos, looking good.

I thought you might like to see the oldest ( so far ) Gardner in preservation. Size 2 ( 2 BHP ) Engine number 241 of 1896.

llSzEztfjMs
Kind regards, Graham.
Title: Re: Retlas
Post by: Chipmaster on March 12, 2016, 05:37:31 PM
Good afternoon Graham, excellent, lovely sound, I presume the engine is at the Anson museum?
Must get back to watching the rugby match on tv now.
Andy
Title: Re: Retlas
Post by: Myrickman on March 13, 2016, 11:57:07 PM
Graham, what an elegant little engine. The gas governer is mesmerizing. Like the horsepower measuring apparatus also. Thanks for posting
Title: Re: Retlas
Post by: Chipmaster on March 14, 2016, 08:21:15 AM
Milling the other side of the connecting rod.
(https://farm2.staticflickr.com/1546/25682781251_5831526014_z.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/F8uY6i)Building Retlas 534 (https://flic.kr/p/F8uY6i) by Andy (https://www.flickr.com/photos/116764188@N08/), on Flickr
(https://farm2.staticflickr.com/1464/25151258123_468d51142b_z.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/EjwLMr)Building Retlas 535 (https://flic.kr/p/EjwLMr) by Andy (https://www.flickr.com/photos/116764188@N08/), on Flickr
(https://farm2.staticflickr.com/1445/25682777381_1f0eeced57_z.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/F8uWWz)Building Retlas 536 (https://flic.kr/p/F8uWWz) by Andy (https://www.flickr.com/photos/116764188@N08/), on Flickr

On to the lathe for turning between centres. I could have put a bolt through the eye of the big end to drive it but it seemed safer with the improvised two bar 'carrier' clamped over the split line of the big end in case any mishaps put a strain on the assembly.
(https://farm2.staticflickr.com/1628/25147398584_e13c6c644f_z.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/EjbZtE)Building Retlas 537 (https://flic.kr/p/EjbZtE) by Andy (https://www.flickr.com/photos/116764188@N08/), on Flickr
(https://farm2.staticflickr.com/1719/25656865542_aae0567bf0_z.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/F6d9fJ)Building Retlas 538 (https://flic.kr/p/F6d9fJ) by Andy (https://www.flickr.com/photos/116764188@N08/), on Flickr
(https://farm2.staticflickr.com/1683/25777866085_ce7e05536e_z.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/FgUiuZ)Building Retlas 539 (https://flic.kr/p/FgUiuZ) by Andy (https://www.flickr.com/photos/116764188@N08/), on Flickr

The lathe's taper turning attachment is being used to machine the rectangular section of the rod and produce a fine taper.
I'll take it slowly because I have found the results produced by my taper turning attachment rather variable  :cussing:. The attachment looks to be in good condition and is well lubricated so perhaps a worn cross slide feed screw is to blame? I would be interested to hear of other members experiences with taper turning attachments.
Andy
Title: Re: Retlas
Post by: Ian S C on March 14, 2016, 08:45:31 AM
With my method, I'v used it in steel, and aluminium con rods, and yes for my own design of hot air engines.  The hole in the con rod, and the outside of the bronze bush are oval, and instead of a slitting saw, I cut the cap, and bush with the mini power hacksaw powered by one of my motors, in fact the first one made was for the motor that was driving the saw. This is the saw on a different motor.
Ian S C
Title: Re: Retlas
Post by: Chipmaster on March 15, 2016, 07:52:07 AM
Con rod with the shaft machined round and tapered

(https://farm2.staticflickr.com/1633/25804214965_27132eafe0_z.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/Fjem72)Building Retlas 544 (https://flic.kr/p/Fjem72) by Andy (https://www.flickr.com/photos/116764188@N08/), on Flickr

Setting up a rotary table to mill the profile of the little end. This was the first time I used this gadget - Coaxial Centring Indicator, that I bought over a year ago. The rotary table was bolted down first then centred by moving the x and y axis. My usual method is to use a centre in the milling mc spindle to guide the position of the rotary table before securing it to the milling machine table.

(https://farm2.staticflickr.com/1694/25173844074_504d4fb2e2_c.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/EmwwNo)Building Retlas 545 (https://flic.kr/p/EmwwNo) by Andy (https://www.flickr.com/photos/116764188@N08/), on Flickr

Andy
Title: Re: Retlas
Post by: Chipmaster on March 15, 2016, 07:31:45 PM
I forgot to take a picture of profiling the little end of the con-rod on a rotary table. Here's a picture of the rod after milling round the little end and some filing to blend it in with the round shaft.
(https://farm2.staticflickr.com/1612/25189537363_e2b244ae8c_c.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/EnUXSk)Building Retlas 550 (https://flic.kr/p/EnUXSk) by Andy (https://www.flickr.com/photos/116764188@N08/), on Flickr

Andy
Title: Re: Retlas
Post by: Chipmaster on March 17, 2016, 10:05:10 PM
Making the bronze big end bearing.
The first thing I did was solder a piece of cored phosphor bronze onto a 5" length of brass bar that was about 9/16" diameter which could be held in a quick change boring bar tool post.
(https://farm2.staticflickr.com/1569/25826411766_2d42027afe_c.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/Fmc7ru)Building Retlas 552 (https://flic.kr/p/Fmc7ru) by Andy (https://www.flickr.com/photos/116764188@N08/), on Flickr

The bronze was turned down just enough to clean up the surface.

(https://farm2.staticflickr.com/1611/25731515172_99148e4c20_z.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/FcNJZj)Building Retlas 554 (https://flic.kr/p/FcNJZj) by Andy (https://www.flickr.com/photos/116764188@N08/), on Flickr

The centre line was marked and set up on the lathe for a 1/16" thick slitting saw to saw to the left just touching the centre line.
(https://farm2.staticflickr.com/1562/25731513392_7675c6f5ba_n.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/FcNJsC)Building Retlas 555 (https://flic.kr/p/FcNJsC) by Andy (https://www.flickr.com/photos/116764188@N08/), on Flickr
(https://farm2.staticflickr.com/1532/25225866753_06cc0fa139_z.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/Er8ak8)Building Retlas 557 (https://flic.kr/p/Er8ak8) by Andy (https://www.flickr.com/photos/116764188@N08/), on Flickr
I used a hacksaw to separate the smaller half of the bearing then soldered it back on.
(https://farm2.staticflickr.com/1509/25852422385_a7c4b9eaaf_z.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/Fouqur)Building Retlas 558 (https://flic.kr/p/Fouqur) by Andy (https://www.flickr.com/photos/116764188@N08/), on Flickr
(https://farm2.staticflickr.com/1653/25826399166_c271a1b077_z.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/Fmc3Gf)Building Retlas 559 (https://flic.kr/p/Fmc3Gf) by Andy (https://www.flickr.com/photos/116764188@N08/), on Flickr

Returned to the lathe mounted in a multi collet chuck to ensure accuracy then bored out and reamed to fit the 5/8" crank pin. The jubilee clip was to help the soft solder hold the two halves together.
(https://farm2.staticflickr.com/1537/25566498910_914af57c33_z.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/EXdZpm)Building Retlas 563 (https://flic.kr/p/EXdZpm) by Andy (https://www.flickr.com/photos/116764188@N08/), on Flickr

Taking light cuts because of the risk of the soft solder coming apart, the bearing was machined to fit the con-rod  then parted off.
(https://farm2.staticflickr.com/1467/25236648154_70022c6969_z.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/Es5qgm)Building Retlas 565 (https://flic.kr/p/Es5qgm) by Andy (https://www.flickr.com/photos/116764188@N08/), on Flickr
(https://farm2.staticflickr.com/1683/25236643774_315b52a0a8_z.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/Es5oXQ)Building Retlas 567 (https://flic.kr/p/Es5oXQ) by Andy (https://www.flickr.com/photos/116764188@N08/), on Flickr

Turned round and glued onto a short 5/8" bar so I could turn a bevel on the mouth of the bearing.
(https://farm2.staticflickr.com/1628/25867165465_914803539b_z.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/FpMZ6t)Building Retlas 570 (https://flic.kr/p/FpMZ6t) by Andy (https://www.flickr.com/photos/116764188@N08/), on Flickr

Heated up so the shells fall apart, the brown stain is the residue of the burnt Hafix glue
(https://farm2.staticflickr.com/1477/25240591663_6d99ab1d36_z.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/EsqCwT)Building Retlas 573 (https://flic.kr/p/EsqCwT) by Andy (https://www.flickr.com/photos/116764188@N08/), on Flickr

Cleaned up and fitted to the con-rod.
(https://farm2.staticflickr.com/1601/25841107126_5ca7e67702_z.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/FnuqRL)Building Retlas 575 (https://flic.kr/p/FnuqRL) by Andy (https://www.flickr.com/photos/116764188@N08/), on Flickr
(https://farm2.staticflickr.com/1684/25772056641_5724fd4a1a_z.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/Fgowya)Building Retlas 579 (https://flic.kr/p/Fgowya) by Andy (https://www.flickr.com/photos/116764188@N08/), on Flickr

Assembled on the crank shaft.
(https://farm2.staticflickr.com/1564/25867155215_6f7f826d6d_z.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/FpMW3K)Building Retlas 574 (https://flic.kr/p/FpMW3K) by Andy (https://www.flickr.com/photos/116764188@N08/), on Flickr

The bearing is a good fit, there are a couple of slightly tight spots that I will deal with, probably needs a little scraping here and there or I could leave it to bed down when the engine is being run-in. Anyway, I'm pleased with the result. Now I need to work out how to lubricate the big end bearing.

Andy

Andy

Title: Re: Retlas
Post by: 10KPete on March 17, 2016, 11:40:53 PM
 :popcorn:

Very nice!

Pete
Title: Re: Retlas
Post by: Chipmaster on March 18, 2016, 07:26:29 PM
Thanks Pete.
To find the what was causing the tightness I applied Stuarts Micrometer Blue all over the bronze bearing surfaces and assembled the con-rod on the crank pin rotated the bearing then took it apart to see where the Micrometer Blue had been rubbed off indicating high spots. It turned out that a bit more work on the arris was required, that is more bevel on each end of the bearing. Now the con-rod swings round on the crank pin with no binding at all.
Andy
(https://farm2.staticflickr.com/1662/25862713986_b098ca1246_z.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/FppaPQ)Building Retlas 586 (https://flic.kr/p/FppaPQ) by Andy (https://www.flickr.com/photos/116764188@N08/), on Flickr
Title: Re: Retlas
Post by: 10KPete on March 18, 2016, 08:14:43 PM
 :whoohoo: :whoohoo:

I love spotting!

Pete
Title: Re: Retlas
Post by: Chipmaster on March 18, 2016, 09:15:47 PM
Pleased to hear you enjoyed spotting round the arris :ThumbsUp:
Andy
Title: Re: Retlas
Post by: Chipmaster on March 19, 2016, 08:08:20 PM
Some pictures of the trial assembly of the con-rod. I had to file some of the base away to clear the con-rod at the three and nine o'clock positions. The big end bolts are temporary, I intend to have the bolts coming up through the big end cap with the nuts above the big end. This follows the original Gardner Vertical arrangement. Thanks for the info Jason, I think it will make the engine easier to assemble,
(https://farm2.staticflickr.com/1642/25792661902_978da994da_z.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/Fid8Mh)Building Retlas 589 (https://flic.kr/p/Fid8Mh) by Andy (https://www.flickr.com/photos/116764188@N08/), on Flickr

(https://farm2.staticflickr.com/1486/25280711484_639f57b627_z.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/EvYfKW)Building Retlas 593 (https://flic.kr/p/EvYfKW) by Andy (https://www.flickr.com/photos/116764188@N08/), on Flickr

(https://farm2.staticflickr.com/1481/25792647632_eda3b6312a_z.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/Fid4xf)Building Retlas 594 (https://flic.kr/p/Fid4xf) by Andy (https://www.flickr.com/photos/116764188@N08/), on Flickr

Andy
Title: Re: Retlas
Post by: Jasonb on March 19, 2016, 08:19:02 PM
Looking good :)
Title: Re: Retlas
Post by: Jo on March 21, 2016, 07:46:50 AM
I'll take it slowly because I have found the results produced by my taper turning attachment rather variable  :cussing:. The attachment looks to be in good condition and is well lubricated so perhaps a worn cross slide feed screw is to blame? I would be interested to hear of other members experiences with taper turning attachments.
Andy

I have the same taper turner on my Master: I fitted it brand new having found it in the College's stores about 20 years ago. It gives me no problems and is very good  8). If the feed screw is at fault it should show with normal turning.

 :headscratch: Andy why is the skirt of the cylinder liner sticking below the main casting.

Jo
Title: Re: Retlas
Post by: Chipmaster on March 21, 2016, 09:37:50 AM
Thanks for your response about the Colchester taper turning attachment Jo, reckon I'll dismantle the attachment and cross slide and examine all the parts when I'm in the mood. Does your cross slide feed screw have much backlash? On mine I can turn the cross slide handle and the dial reads about 30 thou difference between the cross slide actually moving forwards or back. The lathe came with a spare cross slide feed screw which appears to be un used, unfortunately it's the standard screw which was probably retained when the telescopic feed screw was fitted for the taper turning attachment.

The cylinder liner/minutiae, I suppose you've been checking the drawings and reason that the liner should only project by about a sixteenth of an inch? Well, the liner is exactly the right length but the cylinder yoke casting was shorter than required and there was never enough casting to allow 4.5/16" over the faces as specified in drawing No 200. Cleaning up the cylinder casting was kept to the absolute minimum, anyway perhaps I'll end up with a higher compression GT version. Reckon I'll be able to trim bits if necessary.
Regards
Andy
Title: Re: Retlas
Post by: Jo on March 21, 2016, 09:52:04 AM
Silly question: Is it the same backlash all the way across? In which case have you tried adjusting the antibacklash cross slide wedge?

Jo
Title: Re: Retlas
Post by: Chipmaster on March 21, 2016, 04:25:49 PM
Not a silly question at all Jo.
The backlash is virtually the same all the way across. I have adjusted the gib strips from time to time but I haven't adjusted an antibacklash cross slide wedge, don't know if the Chipmaster has one. I'll have a look in the manual but I don't recall seeing a reference to such a thing. Mind you the original Colchester manual that I had with the lathe doesn't say much about maintaining the lathe.

Andy
Title: Re: Retlas
Post by: Alyn Foundry on March 21, 2016, 05:55:29 PM
Hi Andy.

By gum, this forum moves quickly! I hadn't noticed your recent posts.

That's an interesting development regarding the cylinder protrusion, you are the first to mention it. The drawings were made from Vincent's first build and the yoke pattern was a rather flimsy wooden one. I remade an Aluminium master from it and the loss will be partly due to shrinkage ( 3/16" per foot-linear )  All subsequent patterns were made with double shrinkage so that the final castings would be to size.

Re backlash. Does your cross slide nut have any adjustment ? They are usually part split with a cap screw to close the gap, reducing thread backlash. Just a thought.

Kind regards, Graham.
Title: Re: Retlas
Post by: Chipmaster on March 21, 2016, 06:41:43 PM
Hi Graham, I've been wondering where you'd been.
Re my protrusion, I noted the lower height of my cylnder yoke casting early on in this build but reasoned I could easily compensate for that elsewhere on the engine, probably by shortening the piston if necessary so I'm not concerned by it.

My Colchester Chipmaster, built in 1969, has a plain bronze nut propelling the cross slide. I have checked a manual that refers to an anti backlash device incorpoated in the nut, there appears to have been either an option or a later spec with the anti backlash device. I'll post a drawing from the manual after dinner.

Andy
Title: Re: Retlas
Post by: Chipmaster on March 21, 2016, 08:42:37 PM
Jo, its bad enough being taunted that I seem to be missing a DRO, now I'm missing an anti-backlash nut as well :'(.

Here are scans of two Colchester Chipmaster Manuals, the first scan is from the original August 1969 manual that accompanied my lathe Serial No G4912, it doesn't show an anti-backlash nut.

The second scan is from a manual that covers lathes from serial No 6994 onwards in which the anti-backlash nut appears to be an option.

Graham - I can check to see if anything is loose otherwise there's not much I can do. I'd like to know how much backlash other lathes operators encounter to see whether I've got a problem. I always pull the toolpost/cross slide towards me when I use the feed screw to advance the cross slide and get on pretty well. Its taper turning that causes me grief.
Andy

Andy

Title: Re: Retlas
Post by: Jo on March 22, 2016, 10:37:25 AM
This is one of the spare sets of standard antibacklash nuts I have for the Master and the standard lead screw and its nuts below it. These are 8278-1 ( imperial ) in the bag is the wedge. There is a different part number for the ones to go with the taper turner  :headscratch:

I m not sure if a set of these would fit the chipmaster  :(

Jo
Title: Re: Retlas
Post by: Alyn Foundry on March 22, 2016, 11:23:53 AM
Hi Jo.

Is the top nut in two pieces? Suggested by the tape.

Hi Andy.

My Le Blond RP was a " Lend Lease " machine from WW2  and has worked hard, it was rebuilt by Alfred Herbert in 1954. I've had it for nearly 30 years and coped with the cross slide backlash by doing exactly the same as you. Some years back I reduced the backlash by sawing the nut and fitting a couple of Allen cap screws to tighten it. Incidentally my lathe never had a top slide just a massive 4 way tool post hence the ridiculously heavy cuts it can do. What's really nice is despite her age she'still holds decent accuracy.

Kind regards, Graham.
Title: Re: Retlas
Post by: Jo on March 22, 2016, 11:43:36 AM
Yes Graham under that tape is a pair of the same nuts you see on the screw below.

Jo
Title: Re: Retlas
Post by: Chipmaster on March 22, 2016, 02:55:38 PM
Re: Cross Slide backlash.
Jo & Graham, I have found tightening the bolt that secures the feed nut to the cross slide effects a remarkable improvement, mine was loose!  :Doh:

I've arrowed the bolt in this diagram, now I wonder whether that will improve the taper turning?
Andy
Title: Re: Retlas
Post by: Alyn Foundry on March 22, 2016, 03:36:55 PM
 :lolb:

Hi Andy.

Well at least it's fixed now.

My feed screw nut locking device is visible, you can see it rock when loose. Now anyone got any ideas on how to remove 200 thou backlash from my Knight Jig borer?

Kind regards, Graham.
Title: Re: Retlas
Post by: Jo on March 22, 2016, 05:04:10 PM
:facepalm:

At least it was a cheap fix  ;). I'll put my spares back in their hidey hole.

Jo
Title: Re: Retlas
Post by: Chipmaster on March 22, 2016, 06:09:16 PM
Thanks Jo, I'll measure the diameter of the Chipmaster cross slide feed screw for comparison with your Master feed screw. They will probably be different sizes, I'd expect the Master's screw to be thicker.
Andy
Title: Re: Retlas
Post by: Chipmaster on March 22, 2016, 06:12:28 PM
I'm about to machine the piston ring grooves in the piston and apart from size which isn't specified, I'm trying to decide whether to use two rings or three just because the plans leave the choice two or three, "up to the preference of the owner".
So far all my models have used two and run well.  Can anybody suggest whether two or three rings are likely to make any difference to the Retlas?
Perhaps I could machine three grooves and have the option of leaving the bottom ring out.

Andy
Title: Re: Retlas
Post by: Alyn Foundry on March 22, 2016, 06:29:00 PM
Hi Andy.

My answer now, based on years of practice making piston rings would be just two. When the Retlas appeared we were but novice's our piston rings were **** !! Over time we found that a square section, 90 X 90 thou with a groove depth of 95 thou worked the best.

If I were to try now I would probably recommend " Viton " " O " rings, as the latest generation are rated at 200 C+ working temperature. I have just one in my Gardner, it works a treat !!

Kind regards, Graham.
Title: Re: Retlas
Post by: Chipmaster on March 24, 2016, 12:01:52 AM
Jo, the cross slide feed screw on my Chipmaster measures 0.5625" ~ 9/16" diameter. How does that compare with the feed screw for you Master lathe?

Andy
Title: Re: Retlas
Post by: Jo on March 24, 2016, 01:29:51 AM
 :-\ Even without going and measuring I know that is a lot smaller diameter.

Jo
Title: Re: Retlas
Post by: Chipmaster on March 24, 2016, 07:05:57 AM
I thought there would be a difference Jo. On eBay I see a seller in Cardiff 'reltub34' occasionally sells cross slide feed nuts for Colchester lathes, they are listed as different items for the Chipmaster and Student lathes
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Cross-Slide-Feed-Nut-to-Fit-Imperial-Colchester-Chipmaster-Early-Bantam-Lathes-/201532317174?nma=true&si=Yf1CPEsT23o9%252FAg%252BZbWqDlLsACU%253D&orig_cvip=true&rt=nc&_trksid=p2047675.l2557 (http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Cross-Slide-Feed-Nut-to-Fit-Imperial-Colchester-Chipmaster-Early-Bantam-Lathes-/201532317174?nma=true&si=Yf1CPEsT23o9%252FAg%252BZbWqDlLsACU%253D&orig_cvip=true&rt=nc&_trksid=p2047675.l2557)
I would like to have a spare but I'm not keen on sending my feed screw off in the post.

Andy
Title: Re: Retlas
Post by: Chipmaster on March 24, 2016, 08:01:03 AM
The casting used for my Retlas piston came from Graham Corry - Alyn Foundry.
Graham said it was left over from their Hornsby Ackroyd project and would suit the Retlas. The pictures show machining the piston and using a Vee block with clamp to ensure the gudgeon pin is at a right angle to the central axis of the piston. I failed to take pictures of machining the two piston ring grooves using a 2mm wide parting off tool.

Retlas piston drawing
(https://farm2.staticflickr.com/1492/25902983312_9c91389829_z.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/FsXyuy)206 Retlas Piston (https://flic.kr/p/FsXyuy) by Andy (https://www.flickr.com/photos/116764188@N08/), on Flickr

The casting had a chucking piece.
(https://farm2.staticflickr.com/1656/25390618594_c53cf0d725_z.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/EFFyj7)Building Retlas 595 (https://flic.kr/p/EFFyj7) by Andy (https://www.flickr.com/photos/116764188@N08/), on Flickr

The gudgeon pin bosses were only just sufficient for a 3/8" diameter pin. After careful marking out the casting was held in a Vee block mounted in a 4 jaw chuck to bore and ream the hole.
(https://farm2.staticflickr.com/1545/25722711290_089feb0afb_z.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/Fc2BUf)Building Retlas 596 (https://flic.kr/p/Fc2BUf) by Andy (https://www.flickr.com/photos/116764188@N08/), on Flickr

Centre drill used to ensure drilling continued in-line on the other side.
(https://farm2.staticflickr.com/1635/25722709740_cce4abdddc_z.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/Fc2Brw)Building Retlas 597 (https://flic.kr/p/Fc2Brw) by Andy (https://www.flickr.com/photos/116764188@N08/), on Flickr

(https://farm2.staticflickr.com/1441/25902587862_6fd3ea66ba_z.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/FsVwWs)Building Retlas 598 (https://flic.kr/p/FsVwWs) by Andy (https://www.flickr.com/photos/116764188@N08/), on Flickr
(https://farm2.staticflickr.com/1525/25902586722_690206e511_z.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/FsVwAN)Building Retlas 599 (https://flic.kr/p/FsVwAN) by Andy (https://www.flickr.com/photos/116764188@N08/), on Flickr
(https://farm2.staticflickr.com/1485/25390608214_38c713c2ff_z.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/EFFve9)Building Retlas 600 (https://flic.kr/p/EFFve9) by Andy (https://www.flickr.com/photos/116764188@N08/), on Flickr
(https://farm2.staticflickr.com/1494/25928535181_374e1c2570_z.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/Fvdwb2)Building Retlas 601 (https://flic.kr/p/Fvdwb2) by Andy (https://www.flickr.com/photos/116764188@N08/), on Flickr
(https://farm2.staticflickr.com/1639/25394149173_e739d0978a_z.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/EFZDQa)Building Retlas 604 (https://flic.kr/p/EFZDQa) by Andy (https://www.flickr.com/photos/116764188@N08/), on Flickr
(https://farm2.staticflickr.com/1505/25394146923_82d8e132dd_z.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/EFZDan)Building Retlas 605 (https://flic.kr/p/EFZDan) by Andy (https://www.flickr.com/photos/116764188@N08/), on Flickr

Andy

Title: Re: Retlas
Post by: Chipmaster on March 25, 2016, 08:24:18 PM
This afternoon I made the little end phosphor bronze bearing bush, the gudgeon pin and two anti wear brass pads to protect the cylinder walls from being scored by the gudgeon pin. I would prefer to use two small cap head screws to retain the gudgeon pin but after machining the piston to fit the 3/8" pin there wasn't enough of the bosses left to do that.
Jo will be interested to know that when I put the engine together the connecting rod fouled the cylinder liner protruding beneath the cylinder/yoke casting so I had to remove about 5/16" from the end of the cylinder liner.
(https://farm2.staticflickr.com/1669/26032193505_e9b6e96fa1_z.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/FEnNbv)Building Retlas 606 (https://flic.kr/p/FEnNbv) by Andy (https://www.flickr.com/photos/116764188@N08/), on Flickr

Now the cylinder liner hardly protrudes.
(https://farm2.staticflickr.com/1550/25759350620_01efab151f_z.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/FfgpuQ)Building Retlas 607 (https://flic.kr/p/FfgpuQ) by Andy (https://www.flickr.com/photos/116764188@N08/), on Flickr
The piston protrudes...
(https://farm2.staticflickr.com/1531/26006246786_592301c7ed_z.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/FC5P8h)Building Retlas 609 (https://flic.kr/p/FC5P8h) by Andy (https://www.flickr.com/photos/116764188@N08/), on Flickr
(https://farm2.staticflickr.com/1542/25939627232_a3ca7fb1cd_z.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/Fwcnsh)Building Retlas 613 (https://flic.kr/p/Fwcnsh) by Andy (https://www.flickr.com/photos/116764188@N08/), on Flickr

I was also pleased that the engine turns over without any binding, it's a relief that all the parts have lined up.
Here's a flickr video, I haven't tried adding one of these before.
(https://farm2.staticflickr.com/1474/26032255715_818a418fe1_z.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/FEo7F6)Retlas piston goes up and down (https://flic.kr/p/FEo7F6) by Andy (https://www.flickr.com/photos/116764188@N08/), on Flickr

In case the flickr video doesn't work here's a YouTube video of the piston going up and down.
29KEPzGJoOk
Next step is to make piston rings.

Andy

Title: Re: Retlas
Post by: Jasonb on March 25, 2016, 08:28:42 PM
Looking good and nice & free.
Title: Re: Retlas
Post by: Jo on March 25, 2016, 08:31:35 PM
:lolb: Its only a bunch of model engine nuts who could find a piston going up and down exciting  :-X.

Andy let me know if you want a spare cross slide nut and I will set my supplier on acquiring one for you  ;)

Jo
Title: Re: Retlas
Post by: Chipmaster on March 25, 2016, 08:55:42 PM
It's good to be in contact with people who find a piston going up and down exciting  ;), my wife doesn't understand me .

Jo I am interested in acquiring a spare cross slide nut for my Chipmaster which is imperial. :cheers:

Andy
Title: Re: Retlas
Post by: zeeprogrammer on March 25, 2016, 10:00:44 PM
:lolb: Its only a bunch of model engine nuts who could find a piston going up and down exciting  :-X.

Uh oh. I wonder what that makes me then. I was watching the video and thinking "that's cool"...then I read Jo's and Andy's posts.  :lolb:

Still watching.  :popcorn:
Title: Re: Retlas
Post by: Chipmaster on March 25, 2016, 10:21:40 PM
At least we're harmless Zee.
Title: Re: Retlas
Post by: zeeprogrammer on March 25, 2016, 10:41:52 PM
At least we're harmless Zee.

Only if you don't do what I do. As I've apparently been told.  ;D
Title: Re: Retlas
Post by: Dave Otto on March 26, 2016, 12:29:55 AM
Great progress Andy,

I have been quietly following along and enjoying your build; its nice when everything goes round and round and up and down as it should. :ThumbsUp:

Dave
Title: Re: Retlas
Post by: Chipmaster on March 26, 2016, 12:25:11 PM
Thanks Dave, when an engine gets to this stage without binding It's a real confidence boost.
I'm also watching your Otto & Langen build which is impressive, the machined surfaces always look immaculate. I strive to get surfaces like that but they often get scratched along the way.

Andy
Title: Re: Retlas
Post by: Jasonb on March 26, 2016, 01:22:27 PM
Thanks Dave, when an engine gets to this stage without binding It's a real confidence boost.

Its also a good indication that you have your fits and finishes right, only the other day I was offered a part complete engine to caress, I soon put it down as it was rather tight. This was only the crankshaft in the bearings and would be best sorted out before more parts aremade and added to the engine which will make it harder to trace the source of the binding. Funny enough last weekend I took a video specifically to illustrate this point before you had posted yours, it will be in my Jowitt thread in a week or two.

You know who you are so watch out for it ;)
Title: Re: Retlas
Post by: Chipmaster on April 05, 2016, 07:34:04 AM
After corresponding with Jason and Graham about how the big end bearing of the original Gardner vertical engine was lubricated I decided to copy and improvise a drip feed arrangement. A brass cup fitted to the side of the big end cap will catch drops of oil from a sight feed lubricator and sufficient oil will reach the crankpin via a grove milled across the face of the end cap, past a big end bolt finally through a slot filed where the two halves of the bearing shells meet. A static test was successful.

Starting out with a 3/4" square brass bar reduced to the thickness of the con rod (5/8"), a slot was milled to form a scoop.
(https://farm2.staticflickr.com/1536/25643725743_7e8633f438_z.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/F53Nft)Building Retlas 618 (https://flic.kr/p/F53Nft) by Andy (https://www.flickr.com/photos/116764188@N08/), on Flickr
(https://farm2.staticflickr.com/1518/25643723943_9d7443e2b7_z.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/F53MHr)Building Retlas 619 (https://flic.kr/p/F53MHr) by Andy (https://www.flickr.com/photos/116764188@N08/), on Flickr
Then some more milling what will be the external surfaces of the cup,
(https://farm2.staticflickr.com/1630/25643720913_05a51c1850_z.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/F53LPc)Building Retlas 621 (https://flic.kr/p/F53LPc) by Andy (https://www.flickr.com/photos/116764188@N08/), on Flickr
Then parted off..
(https://farm2.staticflickr.com/1442/26153950472_b4d01a8964_z.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/FR8Qhy)Building Retlas 625 (https://flic.kr/p/FR8Qhy) by Andy (https://www.flickr.com/photos/116764188@N08/), on Flickr

I milled a slot across the face of the big end cap, wide enough for oil to pass the big end bolt and out through a small slot filed in the edge of the bronze bearing.
(https://farm2.staticflickr.com/1514/25641617114_dc53864b01_z.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/F4RZqN)Building Retlas 626 (https://flic.kr/p/F4RZqN) by Andy (https://www.flickr.com/photos/116764188@N08/), on Flickr
(https://farm2.staticflickr.com/1551/26153947882_e64a9b3677_z.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/FR8PvU)Building Retlas 627 (https://flic.kr/p/FR8PvU) by Andy (https://www.flickr.com/photos/116764188@N08/), on Flickr

The cup is attached with two 6ba screws
(https://farm2.staticflickr.com/1569/26220468536_b39eaec15a_z.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/FX1KMJ)Building Retlas 628 (https://flic.kr/p/FX1KMJ) by Andy (https://www.flickr.com/photos/116764188@N08/), on Flickr
With the con rod assembled a few drops of oil were put in the cup, oil soon flowed though to the bearing. I reckon enough oil will reach the bearing and some oil will be thrown out of the cup up into the cylinder - useful.
(https://farm2.staticflickr.com/1510/26220467386_e1b235e8d7_z.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/FX1KrU)Building Retlas 629 (https://flic.kr/p/FX1KrU) by Andy (https://www.flickr.com/photos/116764188@N08/), on Flickr
(https://farm2.staticflickr.com/1693/26246381715_18a89590b9_z.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/FZiySF)Building Retlas 630 (https://flic.kr/p/FZiySF) by Andy (https://www.flickr.com/photos/116764188@N08/), on Flickr
Title: Re: Retlas
Post by: Myrickman on April 06, 2016, 11:16:05 PM
That's a right pleasing and functional oiler Andy. Have to park that in the old gray matter for future use.  I have a full sized engine with a similar oil cup and oiler which catches drips as they fall. Lots of good tips on this build, thanks for the progress reports. Paul
Title: Re: Retlas
Post by: Chipmaster on April 07, 2016, 07:04:22 PM
Cheers Paul, the official method for lubricating the Retlas big end was by forcing in grease with a screw in the big end bearing cap which would probably be awkward. So, I'm very pleased to have been tipped off about this, the full sized vertical Gardner big end lubrication method. There wasn't much space to accommodate the two 6ba screws securing the cup to the end cap and miss the big end bolt. It was a relief to finish the job with the omnipresent risk of a little 6ba tap breaking off and spoiling the con rod.
Andy
Title: Re: Retlas
Post by: Jasonb on April 07, 2016, 07:16:19 PM
Looks good and I will let you off using round heads instead of cheese heads :mischief:
Title: Re: Retlas
Post by: Chipmaster on April 07, 2016, 07:22:52 PM
Jason, Blimey give us a chance I only had round head screws in stock, is brass ok?  ;)
Andy
Title: Re: Retlas
Post by: Jasonb on April 07, 2016, 07:31:45 PM
The problem is that if you put cheese heads on it all those people who don't know what was shown on teh original will all be saying "pity he used cheese head screws". They are not what we would normally use on a model.

Its also interesting that the big end bolts just have plain round heads
Title: Re: Retlas
Post by: Chipmaster on April 07, 2016, 08:18:53 PM
For the big end bolts, wanting to mimic the original Gardner I bought two 1/4" Whit x 2.3/4" long cap head bolts for 50p from our local fastener stockist, ran a die a bit further down the shank, put them in the lathe and machined the knurling off the cap heads. Much quicker than making the bolts myself and being upside down you can't see the socket in the heads, reckon I'll get away with that  :mischief:. The bolts are a snug fit in the end cap anyway but being able to use an Allen key to hold the bolts might come in handy one day. I machined the bolts down to the core diameter for the last 1/8" so that they could be drilled and have split pins fitted - for appearance rather than function.
Commercially made 1/4 Whit nuts didn't look right at all so I made the big end nuts from some hexagonal mild steel, Whitworth size of course.
J - I will use cheese head screws to hold the scoop next time I re-assemble the engine :ThumbsUp:

Andy
Title: Re: Retlas
Post by: Chipmaster on April 09, 2016, 08:42:34 PM
A couple of pictures showing the con-rod back in the engine, the oil catcher cup faces the back of the engine. A sight feed lubricator on the outside will feed oil through a tube positioned to drip oil into the cup - sometimes.
(https://farm2.staticflickr.com/1693/26058912000_a87bc89ae8_z.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/FGJJEd)Building Retlas 633 (https://flic.kr/p/FGJJEd) by Andy (https://www.flickr.com/photos/116764188@N08/), on Flickr
(https://farm2.staticflickr.com/1615/26058912020_21e9aab8bc_z.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/FGJJEy)Building Retlas 634 (https://flic.kr/p/FGJJEy) by Andy (https://www.flickr.com/photos/116764188@N08/), on Flickr
Andy
Title: Re: Retlas
Post by: Chipmaster on May 16, 2016, 06:48:35 AM
Piston Rings
Using a piece of continuous cast iron bar I decided to make the 1.75" diameter piston rings .09" square. I machined just enough of the cast iron bar to part off the first ring which after cracking open, was heat treated and fitted to the piston. It took me three attempts to machine a ring to the correct fit. I had to anticipate the effect of annealing / heat treatment which slightly increased the dimensions of the ring.

Having arrived at the correct size I finished machining the internal and external diameters of the remaining iron bar and parted off as many embryonic rings as possible. Two rings were fitted to the piston and I have five spares.

(https://farm2.staticflickr.com/1710/26110926504_bff113e0e5_z.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/FMkjL1)Building Retlas 639 (https://flic.kr/p/FMkjL1) by Andy (https://www.flickr.com/photos/116764188@N08/), on Flickr

(https://farm2.staticflickr.com/1501/26691114996_d70136dd9c_z.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/GEAWzS)Building Retlas 640 (https://flic.kr/p/GEAWzS) by Andy (https://www.flickr.com/photos/116764188@N08/), on Flickr

(https://farm8.staticflickr.com/7562/26408864293_b0e64f0b98_z.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/GeEkhr)Building Retlas 663 (https://flic.kr/p/GeEkhr) by Andy (https://www.flickr.com/photos/116764188@N08/), on Flickr

(https://farm8.staticflickr.com/7476/26944179701_290ab1e331_z.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/H3XXUr)Building Retlas 671 (https://flic.kr/p/H3XXUr) by Andy (https://www.flickr.com/photos/116764188@N08/), on Flickr

(https://farm8.staticflickr.com/7314/27012633915_5c5af5fb0c_z.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/Ha1NXv)Building Retlas 673 (https://flic.kr/p/Ha1NXv) by Andy (https://www.flickr.com/photos/116764188@N08/), on Flickr

The action of the rings is good and the compression excellent, I assume it will improve still further as the rings bed in.

Andy
Title: Re: Retlas
Post by: Chipmaster on May 16, 2016, 09:03:58 PM
The main bearing caps of the Gardner Vertical engine (that the Retlas is based on) were cast with integral oil reservoirs /wells. I decided to add rectangular oil wells to my main bearing caps. One of my spare main bearing cap castings was sawn up and milled to produce two wells that were  mounted on the flat tops of the bearing caps, each held by two 6BA countersunk brass screws, a sealant will be used for final assembly. My milling of the recess in one of the wells went a bit wonky because it's impossible to see what's happening with a 3/16" slot drill in my collet chuck. I'll make brass lids that will conceal the errors.

I have a few spare main bearing caps, the foundry man got carried away.
(https://farm8.staticflickr.com/7070/27057339135_25a9212544_z.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/HdXWga)Building Retlas 676 (https://flic.kr/p/HdXWga) by Andy (https://www.flickr.com/photos/116764188@N08/), on Flickr

(https://farm8.staticflickr.com/7470/27024507936_0115e35d05_z.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/Hb4EG1)Building Retlas 675 (https://flic.kr/p/Hb4EG1) by Andy (https://www.flickr.com/photos/116764188@N08/), on Flickr

(https://farm8.staticflickr.com/7071/26453790483_271287654c_z.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/GiCAgV)Building Retlas 681 (https://flic.kr/p/GiCAgV) by Andy (https://www.flickr.com/photos/116764188@N08/), on Flickr

Andy
Title: Re: Retlas
Post by: Dave Otto on May 17, 2016, 01:45:27 AM
You are continuing to make great progress Andy!

The oil well reservoirs on the main caps will add some nice detail to the model.

Dave
Title: Re: Retlas
Post by: Chipmaster on May 17, 2016, 09:11:19 AM
Valves
The Retlas has three valves, two on the inlet side and one exhaust.

Here are the plans.
(https://farm8.staticflickr.com/7444/27067472395_cbdf64865f_z.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/HeRSwx)212 Retlas Inlet Valve (https://flic.kr/p/HeRSwx) by Andy (https://www.flickr.com/photos/116764188@N08/), on Flickro

(https://farm8.staticflickr.com/7636/26461898074_e9ee3b8a91_z.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/Gjm9nY)209 Retlas Exhaust Valve (https://flic.kr/p/Gjm9nY) by Andy (https://www.flickr.com/photos/116764188@N08/), on Flickr

Knowing that it would take me rather a long time to turn small diameter valve stems that were parallel I silver soldered the heads on to two of the valves. Using ground 7/32" and 1/4" mild steel for the stems the valves were made very quickly. The larger inlet valve with varying stem diameters was turned from solid bar. The plans show valves with 45 degree faces operating in 45 degree seats which gave too much contact area in my opinion. I tried one out with the valve face at 45 degrees but couldn't get a good seal so I changed the angle of the valve faces to 50 degrees. This gave a thin contact area and the seal was perfect when ground in.

Larger inlet valve
(https://farm8.staticflickr.com/7422/26738735280_e9b0d74f76_z.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/GJP1rf)Building Retlas 646 (https://flic.kr/p/GJP1rf) by Andy (https://www.flickr.com/photos/116764188@N08/), on Flickr
(https://farm8.staticflickr.com/7205/26738731190_e38845953c_z.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/GJNZdJ)Building Retlas 648 (https://flic.kr/p/GJNZdJ) by Andy (https://www.flickr.com/photos/116764188@N08/), on Flickr

(https://farm8.staticflickr.com/7363/26979034756_32009eec42_z.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/H73B6E)Building Retlas 649 (https://flic.kr/p/H73B6E) by Andy (https://www.flickr.com/photos/116764188@N08/), on Flickr

Machining valve face with a right hand tool and top slide set at 50 degrees.
(https://farm5.staticflickr.com/4879/30815947947_16c530c14a_c.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/NX6MHn)Building Retlas 641 (https://flic.kr/p/NX6MHn) by Andy (https://www.flickr.com/photos/116764188@N08/), on Flickr

(https://farm2.staticflickr.com/1924/43938421620_1857ba2119_c.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/29WFTXs)Building Retlas 642 (https://flic.kr/p/29WFTXs) by Andy (https://www.flickr.com/photos/116764188@N08/), on Flickr

(https://farm8.staticflickr.com/7796/26979044146_31e55f2d38_z.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/H73DTy)Building Retlas 645 (https://flic.kr/p/H73DTy) by Andy (https://www.flickr.com/photos/116764188@N08/), on Flickr

Valves fitted in their valve chests with temporary springs.
(https://farm8.staticflickr.com/7536/27012662375_608cf9cacc_z.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/Ha1Xqc)Building Retlas 652 (https://flic.kr/p/Ha1Xqc) by Andy (https://www.flickr.com/photos/116764188@N08/), on Flickr

I have wound up my own valve springs for other model engines but this design uses conical springs, not essential but they look nice. Sourcing conical valve springs should be easy as I live in Redditch.....

Andy
Title: Re: Retlas
Post by: Alyn Foundry on May 27, 2016, 06:41:26 PM
Hi Andy.

I've been a little busy lately, so, a belated well done and nice progress.

I have just been in contact with a lost friend who now owns this one...........

A case of " here's one I prepared earlier "........... Much earlier, like 25 years ago !!    ;)

Kind regards, Graham.
Title: Re: Retlas
Post by: Chipmaster on June 01, 2016, 11:26:11 AM
Thanks for that picture of another Retlas Graham, I'm keen to collect as many pictures of Reltas engines as possible.
I would also like to see a video of a Retlas running before I finish my own. Like you I have also had to carry out horticultural jobs that has seriously hampered progress with my Retlas.

I decided to machine the underside of the base so that I could fit an oil tight sump in the future. I haven't been able to find something ready made that's suitable so some sort of soldered brass trough seems likely.

(https://c4.staticflickr.com/8/7448/27391031635_edc97160a4_z.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/HJscq8)Building Retlas 682 (https://flic.kr/p/HJscq8) by Andy (https://www.flickr.com/photos/116764188@N08/), on Flickr

There aren't many parts remaining to be made, the valve operating gear comes next, here's a picture of a Retlas that I saw at the Harrogate Exhibition in 2006.
(https://c1.staticflickr.com/8/7045/27357623216_cc7f55be8a_z.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/HFuYfU)Retlas Valve operating gear (https://flic.kr/p/HFuYfU) by Andy (https://www.flickr.com/photos/116764188@N08/), on Flickr

Starting with the exhaust valve, here's an extract from the plans.
(https://c2.staticflickr.com/8/7031/27391102945_e519836c9f_z.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/HJsyBB)Retlas Valve Operating Lever (https://flic.kr/p/HJsyBB) by Andy (https://www.flickr.com/photos/116764188@N08/), on Flickr

I had to do a fair amount of sawing and filing to arrive at the shape required. The radiused section was formed first by milling away the majority then finishing off on my lathe.
(https://c3.staticflickr.com/8/7066/27115431970_2a28b30638_z.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/Hj6FeL)Building Retlas 685 (https://flic.kr/p/Hj6FeL) by Andy (https://www.flickr.com/photos/116764188@N08/), on Flickr
(https://c6.staticflickr.com/8/7212/27319949101_7ec1860d03_z.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/HCaT4c)Building Retlas 689 (https://flic.kr/p/HCaT4c) by Andy (https://www.flickr.com/photos/116764188@N08/), on Flickr
(https://c8.staticflickr.com/8/7313/27391128455_52eea5b066_z.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/HJsGcr)Building Retlas 690 (https://flic.kr/p/HJsGcr) by Andy (https://www.flickr.com/photos/116764188@N08/), on Flickr
(https://c4.staticflickr.com/8/7422/27319947971_b2cb0f3344_z.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/HCaSHH)Building Retlas 691 (https://flic.kr/p/HCaSHH) by Andy (https://www.flickr.com/photos/116764188@N08/), on Flickr

Andy
Title: Re: Retlas
Post by: Alyn Foundry on June 01, 2016, 05:18:37 PM
Hi Andy.

Have a look at this........

https://www.dropbox.com/s/9n8drxbyj7gsx70/SAM_0373.AVI?dl=0

This might be the only video to date ?

kind regards, Graham.
Title: Re: Retlas
Post by: Chipmaster on June 01, 2016, 10:14:29 PM
Thanks for adding that Graham, at last I have seen one running. There's some serious travel on those valve levers  :thinking:

Andy
Title: Re: Retlas
Post by: Chipmaster on June 04, 2016, 09:00:31 AM
Big end bearing oil feed.
I had a go at positioning the big end oil feed last night.

This is the big end cap showing the route the oil should take.
(https://c3.staticflickr.com/2/1551/26153947882_e64a9b3677_z.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/FR8PvU)Building Retlas 627 (https://flic.kr/p/FR8PvU) by Andy (https://www.flickr.com/photos/116764188@N08/), on Flickr

...and here are a couple of pictures of the set up.
(https://c1.staticflickr.com/8/7314/27416477416_3d0c46dd8e_z.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/HLGByu)Building Retlas 700 (https://flic.kr/p/HLGByu) by Andy (https://www.flickr.com/photos/116764188@N08/), on Flickr
(https://c3.staticflickr.com/8/7399/27174159530_fe5b439a14_z.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/HphETU)Building Retlas 701 (https://flic.kr/p/HphETU) by Andy (https://www.flickr.com/photos/116764188@N08/), on Flickr

The majority of the oil will miss the cup on the side of the big end cap so I think some sort of sump will be useful.

Andy
Title: Re: Retlas
Post by: Roger B on June 04, 2016, 08:13:53 PM
What is usually described as a total loss system  :)  :)  ::)
Title: Re: Retlas
Post by: Chipmaster on June 04, 2016, 09:19:53 PM
Hi Roger  :agree:, I'm hoping it's not a dead loss!
I have connected a drip feed oiler which may look out of proportion but will suffice for initial runs.
(https://c4.staticflickr.com/8/7569/27389459451_b5d8135c45_z.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/HJj94v)Building Retlas 706 (https://flic.kr/p/HJj94v) by Andy (https://www.flickr.com/photos/116764188@N08/), on Flickr .

The cylinder is also lubricated by a drip feed oiler via a feed through the water jacket. Here is the plan,
(https://c7.staticflickr.com/8/7320/27184596550_9b6e1ee769_c.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/Hqdasw)205 Retlas Cylinder Lubrication (https://flic.kr/p/Hqdasw) by Andy (https://www.flickr.com/photos/116764188@N08/), on Flickr

I taper reamed the oil hole in the cylinder liner and made a brass fitting with a matching taper. A piece of silicone tube supplemented with Hylosil RTV silicone sealant formed a water tight seal when screwed in from the cylinder casting. These are pictures of my first attempt which failed.
(https://c4.staticflickr.com/8/7071/26853642443_1b45cddb7a_c.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/GUXWke)Building Retlas 702 (https://flic.kr/p/GUXWke) by Andy (https://www.flickr.com/photos/116764188@N08/), on Flickr
the fitting is threaded 1/8 BSP for the connection to a drip feed oiler.
(https://c1.staticflickr.com/8/7286/27426803736_365a5e95fe_z.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/HMBxdu)Building Retlas 705 (https://flic.kr/p/HMBxdu) by Andy (https://www.flickr.com/photos/116764188@N08/), on Flickr

This set up is oil and water tight and delivers plenty of oil but I wonder to what extent the oil will be distributed around the entire piston.
(https://c3.staticflickr.com/8/7296/27426851706_ca00da8f68_z.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/HMBMty)Building Retlas 722 (https://flic.kr/p/HMBMty) by Andy (https://www.flickr.com/photos/116764188@N08/), on Flickr.

I won't fit a non return valve until I've seen how well the cylinder lubrication works.

Andy
Title: Re: Retlas
Post by: Chipmaster on June 12, 2016, 09:47:25 PM
We're moving house at the end of this month so I have stopped work on the Retlas and started packing up my workshop.
The last time I moved my workshop was 12 years ago when I had a large trailer and plenty of help. At the time I had a Ward 2A capstan lathe, a Colchester Chipmaster lathe, an Archdale vertical miller and a Meddings MF4 pillar drill. I also had a Merryweather Valiant fire pump and several stationary engines that were temporarily housed by friends. The majority of those helpers had now passed on and I sold my trailer last year so I agreed with my wife that I would pay for the machine tools to be moved this time. Fortunately over the last few years I have sold the Ward 2A, Merryweather Valiant and all the stationary engines. However, it was very difficult to find a commercial outfit that would move and store my machine tools between houses, we're only moving 2 miles but I didn't think it would work moving furniture and machinery on the same day, my wife thought the household should come first. So, my machinery is going to be collected 21st June and delivered to our new house 4th July. That will give me time to remove all the vulnerable parts of the machines before they are collected.
Yesterday Saturday 11th June, I hired a self storage unit half way between the houses and my wife and I have moved about a quarter of the heavier stuff so far. All this while we are packing the household effects which includes hundreds of books.
Andy
Title: Re: Retlas
Post by: Jo on June 13, 2016, 05:31:42 PM
We're moving house at the end of this month so I have stopped work on the Retlas and started packing up my workshop.
.....Andy

:paranoia: Been there, done that, once with professional workshop movers. 18 years ago it should have cost a fortune 2 lorries 6 trips over 2 days over 20 miles move somehow they charged me £250 for the lot :noidea:

A fella asked me a few years ago if I would consider moving house again: its not the packing up  :ShakeHead: or seeing your tools hauled on and off the top of the lorry  :hellno: Its the months and months of trying to get the new workshop up and running :'( And after still not being able to find things  :wallbang:

Like those airbrushes I found the other day  :headscratch: Don't remember them, I'm sure I don't remember them  :old:

Jo
Title: Re: Retlas
Post by: Chipmaster on June 13, 2016, 06:02:12 PM
You had a very good deal Jo, this move is going to cost me four times as much, one lorry with a Hiab arm will take just the four machine tools away for two weeks storage then deliver them to my new house. I have made eighteen trips to the self storage unit in three days, I had to carry my six inch Record fitters vice this afternoon    :old::ShakeHead: However, I feel more confident I can complete the challenge.
Andy
Title: Re: Retlas
Post by: Jo on June 13, 2016, 07:52:37 PM
I could provide safe storage for any castings for you  :naughty:

Jo
Title: Re: Retlas
Post by: Chipmaster on June 13, 2016, 08:27:46 PM
I could provide safe storage for any castings for you  :naughty:

Jo

Of course, if only you weren't too far away   :shrug:

Andy
Title: Re: Retlas
Post by: Chipmaster on June 21, 2016, 03:59:12 PM
My machine tools were collected this morning.

Here they are greased up, ready for their holiday somewhere in Birmingham.
(https://c1.staticflickr.com/8/7491/27204966864_4a159c96a2_z.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/Hs1yQQ)P1050560 (https://flic.kr/p/Hs1yQQ) by Andy (https://www.flickr.com/photos/116764188@N08/), on Flickr

(https://c1.staticflickr.com/8/7542/27538985080_a7a25a139f_z.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/HXwuPA)P1050565 (https://flic.kr/p/HXwuPA) by Andy (https://www.flickr.com/photos/116764188@N08/), on Flickr

(https://c5.staticflickr.com/8/7287/27716102092_862e6b3e0f_z.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/Jebgxb)P1050575 (https://flic.kr/p/Jebgxb) by Andy (https://www.flickr.com/photos/116764188@N08/), on Flickr

(https://c1.staticflickr.com/8/7368/27716106712_d2e11eb48d_z.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/JebhUQ)P1050582 (https://flic.kr/p/JebhUQ) by Andy (https://www.flickr.com/photos/116764188@N08/), on Flickr

Archdale Vertical Miller being loaded.
wWxbjgw_5lM
Strapped down and away they go, will see them again in two weeks time.
(https://c7.staticflickr.com/8/7509/27782668046_56b0fa8318_z.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/Jk4rh3)P1050596 (https://flic.kr/p/Jk4rh3) by Andy (https://www.flickr.com/photos/116764188@N08/), on Flickr

Andy
Title: Re: Retlas
Post by: Jo on June 21, 2016, 04:02:41 PM
Strapped down and away they go, will see them again in two weeks time.

 :'(

I hope the new workshop is worth it.

Jo

Title: Re: Retlas
Post by: Chipmaster on June 21, 2016, 04:27:50 PM
So do I Jo :agree:. I'm quite pleased with the progress, the whole lot has now gone and it took 12 days.  This is my second workshop move, the first was exactly 12 years ago. Both of my 'workshops have been in tandem garages. The next one will be a bigger double garage with some more floor area and a window :whoohoo: My current garage has no window so its rather dreary.
Andy
Title: Re: Retlas
Post by: Chipmaster on October 16, 2016, 07:24:05 PM
We moved house three months ago and I now have my new workshop up and running so I will be able to resume building Retlas.

My machine tools were delivered out of storage four days after we moved in whilst the rest of my workshop was crammed into a self storage unit.

(https://c5.staticflickr.com/6/5555/30330968356_143461e1e9_z.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/Ndf9bh)WP_20160616_15_41_37_Pro (https://flic.kr/p/Ndf9bh) by Andy (https://www.flickr.com/photos/116764188@N08/), on Flickr
(https://c5.staticflickr.com/6/5490/30330968396_b2a6a0d593_z.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/Ndf9bY)WP_20160616_15_41_48_Pro (https://flic.kr/p/Ndf9bY) by Andy (https://www.flickr.com/photos/116764188@N08/), on Flickr
(https://c3.staticflickr.com/6/5328/30330968426_148b3ffa0c_z.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/Ndf9cu)WP_20160621_14_34_39_Pro (https://flic.kr/p/Ndf9cu) by Andy (https://www.flickr.com/photos/116764188@N08/), on Flickr

My wife and I spent a week getting the house sorted out then a friend helped me to transfer everything from the self storage unit into the workshop which is a double garage set apart from the house. The existing power supply was inadequate so I had an electrician install a 100 amp power supply and install new circuits for sockets phase, converter, lathe, shaper and lighting.

It has taken a couple of months to sort the workshop out and I'm having to accommodate garden tools until we get a shed.

Here are some picture of the workshop taken with my phone a few days ago. I'm also having to put up with a chaise longue that was given to my wife a couple of weeks ago, she's de-upholstering it which is a bit messy. It will move into her studio in the house when its stripped down to the bare frame.

(https://c1.staticflickr.com/9/8550/30330968456_01476a3dc8_z.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/Ndf9d1)WP_20161013_16_49_28_Pro (https://flic.kr/p/Ndf9d1) by Andy (https://www.flickr.com/photos/116764188@N08/), on Flickr

(https://c5.staticflickr.com/9/8414/30330968476_586bbe55c0_z.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/Ndf9dm)WP_20161013_16_49_34_Pro (https://flic.kr/p/Ndf9dm) by Andy (https://www.flickr.com/photos/116764188@N08/), on Flickr

(https://c3.staticflickr.com/6/5567/30330968506_56900c3408_z.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/Ndf9dS)WP_20161013_16_49_39_Pro (https://flic.kr/p/Ndf9dS) by Andy (https://www.flickr.com/photos/116764188@N08/), on Flickr

(https://c6.staticflickr.com/9/8670/29734452253_d87244d504_z.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/MiwQHT)WP_20161013_16_49_50_Pro (https://flic.kr/p/MiwQHT) by Andy (https://www.flickr.com/photos/116764188@N08/), on Flickr

(https://c1.staticflickr.com/6/5695/30249628792_aceeaa003c_z.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/N64fL1)WP_20161013_16_49_54_Pro (https://flic.kr/p/N64fL1) by Andy (https://www.flickr.com/photos/116764188@N08/), on Flickr

(https://c6.staticflickr.com/9/8560/29734431613_7f6be028f7_z.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/MiwJA2)WP_20161013_16_50_51_Pro (https://flic.kr/p/MiwJA2) by Andy (https://www.flickr.com/photos/116764188@N08/), on Flickr

(https://c8.staticflickr.com/9/8136/29734423503_fa9cb8e5a2_z.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/MiwGbc)WP_20161013_16_51_03_Pro (https://flic.kr/p/MiwGbc) by Andy (https://www.flickr.com/photos/116764188@N08/), on Flickr

(https://c4.staticflickr.com/6/5729/30366190435_2a842523ca_z.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/NgmEtv)WP_20161013_16_51_14_Pro (https://flic.kr/p/NgmEtv) by Andy (https://www.flickr.com/photos/116764188@N08/), on Flickr

Back to Retlas shortly.

Andy


Title: Re: Retlas
Post by: Roger B on October 16, 2016, 07:33:36 PM
That's a lot of work you have done there  :DrinkPint:  :DrinkPint: Hope you are back using the machines soon  :ThumbsUp:
Title: Re: Retlas
Post by: Chipmaster on October 16, 2016, 08:14:57 PM
Hi Roger, I reckon I lost a half a stone in the process but it soon went on again  :(

Resumed work on the Retlas this afternoon.

I now have to finish the valve gear. This is the exhaust valve lever which I made a few months ago.

(https://c2.staticflickr.com/8/7031/27391102945_e519836c9f_z.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/HJsyBB)Retlas Valve Operating Lever (https://flic.kr/p/HJsyBB) by Andy (https://www.flickr.com/photos/116764188@N08/), on Flickr

(https://c3.staticflickr.com/8/7066/27115431970_2a28b30638_z.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/Hj6FeL)Building Retlas 685 (https://flic.kr/p/Hj6FeL) by Andy (https://www.flickr.com/photos/116764188@N08/), on Flickr

(https://c6.staticflickr.com/8/7212/27319949101_7ec1860d03_z.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/HCaT4c)Building Retlas 689 (https://flic.kr/p/HCaT4c) by Andy (https://www.flickr.com/photos/116764188@N08/), on Flickr

Graham Corry thought I might be able to build this Retlas keeping the pushrods straight as shown in this photograph of a Vertical Gardner,
(https://c7.staticflickr.com/6/5633/30332171726_5a8d0e2435_z.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/NdmiU3)Gardner Vertical001 (https://flic.kr/p/NdmiU3) by Andy (https://www.flickr.com/photos/116764188@N08/), on Flickr
Because valve chest castings are deeper on my engine.
Here are some pictures of completed Retlas engines with angled pushrods,
(https://c5.staticflickr.com/9/8140/30070344900_58c044d8a1_z.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/MPdnUq)Retlas [2] (https://flic.kr/p/MPdnUq) by Andy (https://www.flickr.com/photos/116764188@N08/), on Flickr

(https://c1.staticflickr.com/6/5655/30070335480_e49b7c3f3a_z.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/MPdk71)Retlas at Station Rd Steam (5) (https://flic.kr/p/MPdk71) by Andy (https://www.flickr.com/photos/116764188@N08/), on Flickr

(https://c1.staticflickr.com/6/5809/30250716312_12375e8dee_z.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/N69Q3m)Retlas[1] (https://flic.kr/p/N69Q3m) by Andy (https://www.flickr.com/photos/116764188@N08/), on Flickr

(https://c6.staticflickr.com/9/8130/30367260485_5935484e55_z.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/Ngs9yD)Vincent Salter 3 (https://flic.kr/p/Ngs9yD) by Andy (https://www.flickr.com/photos/116764188@N08/), on Flickr

(https://c1.staticflickr.com/9/8129/29736930624_c5702f73ae_z.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/MiKxsq)Retlas crofty 2[1] (https://flic.kr/p/MiKxsq) by Andy (https://www.flickr.com/photos/116764188@N08/), on Flickr

(https://c7.staticflickr.com/6/5555/29736920014_ed65914ea1_z.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/MiKuiu)P1000194[1] (https://flic.kr/p/MiKuiu) by Andy (https://www.flickr.com/photos/116764188@N08/), on Flickr

Here are some pictures of how my engine is shaping up, I think I will have to bend one or both pushrods, sorry Graham....

I've used a couple of lengths of 1/4 Whit allthread to show how far out the eccentrics and valve rods are. Reckon I could use the inboard eccentric to operate the exhaust valve via a straight pushrod.

(https://c4.staticflickr.com/9/8420/29735250523_89c84cbb6e_z.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/MiAW2a)Building Retlas 723 (https://flic.kr/p/MiAW2a) by Andy (https://www.flickr.com/photos/116764188@N08/), on Flickr
(https://c2.staticflickr.com/9/8549/29735236713_e1a47a6a09_z.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/MiARV4)Building Retlas 724 (https://flic.kr/p/MiARV4) by Andy (https://www.flickr.com/photos/116764188@N08/), on Flickr
(https://c8.staticflickr.com/9/8138/30366898215_e17db5d97d_z.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/NgqhSB)Building Retlas 725 (https://flic.kr/p/NgqhSB) by Andy (https://www.flickr.com/photos/116764188@N08/), on Flickr
(https://c2.staticflickr.com/9/8558/30280851841_c11f7ef627_z.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/N8Phhr)Building Retlas 726 (https://flic.kr/p/N8Phhr) by Andy (https://www.flickr.com/photos/116764188@N08/), on Flickr
(https://c4.staticflickr.com/6/5337/29735180163_777a0ce02b_z.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/MiAz74)Building Retlas 727 (https://flic.kr/p/MiAz74) by Andy (https://www.flickr.com/photos/116764188@N08/), on Flickr
(https://c6.staticflickr.com/6/5487/29735156973_82b79a19bd_z.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/MiAsde)Building Retlas 728 (https://flic.kr/p/MiAsde) by Andy (https://www.flickr.com/photos/116764188@N08/), on Flickr
(https://c7.staticflickr.com/9/8549/30331669206_478414a4c8_z.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/NdiJvU)Building Retlas 729 (https://flic.kr/p/NdiJvU) by Andy (https://www.flickr.com/photos/116764188@N08/), on Flickr
(https://c3.staticflickr.com/6/5664/30331651786_aeb885fbe2_z.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/NdiDky)Building Retlas 730 (https://flic.kr/p/NdiDky) by Andy (https://www.flickr.com/photos/116764188@N08/), on Flickr
(https://c8.staticflickr.com/8/7721/30366810135_e19cd342db_z.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/NgpQFZ)Building Retlas 731 (https://flic.kr/p/NgpQFZ) by Andy (https://www.flickr.com/photos/116764188@N08/), on Flickr

I made the 5/8" diameter bronze roller to operate against the exhaust valve stem this afternoon.

Andy
Title: Re: Retlas
Post by: Dave Otto on October 16, 2016, 08:22:46 PM
Hi Andy

I like the new digs; looks like a nice cozy place to build engines. Good to see you back working on the Retlas.


Dave
Title: Re: Retlas
Post by: Chipmaster on October 16, 2016, 08:34:10 PM
Thanks Dave I am looking forward to epending a lot more time making engines but there are quite a few jobs around the house that I'll,have to deal with.
My friend is going to send me pictures and measurements of his Kyko engines for you. The delay is due to his computer being outbof action at the moment, he has blamed a Windows 10 update.
Will,pm you with the Kyko information as soon as possible.

Andy
Title: Re: Retlas
Post by: Dave Otto on October 16, 2016, 11:24:54 PM
Thanks Andy I appreciate it.

Dave
Title: Re: Retlas
Post by: Alyn Foundry on October 17, 2016, 06:40:53 PM
Hello Andy.

She's getting close now !! Very nice craftsmanship.

I too have been " out of it ", in my earlier days I was a keen caver/climber, for nearly 20 years I spent an evening a week exploring the mass of old Lead mines dotted around Minera. The area is steeped in industrial archaeology, first mined by the Romans and then off and on until the 1920's. There's even a Cornish style engine house, sadly the engine was scrapped many years ago.

The odd accident now and then has led to lower spinal damage that has now come back to bite me! I have been laid up for the last nine months, only in the last few weeks has the pain subsided enough to be rid of the " La La land " tablets.

I shall be at the Anson at the end of the month for the winter closing event, you have two weeks to get her running!!   ;)

Kind regards, Graham.

Title: Re: Retlas
Post by: Chipmaster on October 18, 2016, 07:33:30 PM
Hi Graham, good to hear from you. Reckon there's a slim chance of having my Retlas going within two weeks and an even slimmer chance of my wife letting me go to the Anson without extracting something in return. She reckons I've had a good run of engine related outings recently. I'll see whether Mike C has plans to go which might help my case  :LittleAngel:

Andy
Title: Re: Retlas
Post by: Chipmaster on October 18, 2016, 07:50:41 PM
I have spent this afternoon filing the inlet valve lever to shape, an improvised shape so far to incorporate the function of the part whilst trying to make it look right - a bit more graceful than the plan.

(https://c4.staticflickr.com/9/8276/30326041571_58870bd99b_z.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/NcNTBH)222 Retlas Valve Operating Lever (Gas Type) (https://flic.kr/p/NcNTBH) by Andy (https://www.flickr.com/photos/116764188@N08/), on Flickr

I have copied the style of lever seen in photos of other completed Retlas engines.

(https://c1.staticflickr.com/6/5808/30374001936_2f29d2de15_z.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/Nh3Gyy)Building Retlas 734 (https://flic.kr/p/Nh3Gyy) by Andy (https://www.flickr.com/photos/116764188@N08/), on Flickr

(https://c2.staticflickr.com/9/8415/29778426033_6796d79338_z.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/MnqdAv)Building Retlas 734 (2) (https://flic.kr/p/MnqdAv) by Andy (https://www.flickr.com/photos/116764188@N08/), on Flickr

I am also tempted to use commercially manufactured rod end bearings, they have a very smooth action and would accommodate the slightest misalignment. I also reckon they would look ok... any observations?

(https://c1.staticflickr.com/9/8597/30293515352_3352766863_z.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/N9WbGQ)Building Retlas 736 (https://flic.kr/p/N9WbGQ) by Andy (https://www.flickr.com/photos/116764188@N08/), on Flickr

Andy

Title: Re: Retlas
Post by: Myrickman on October 19, 2016, 01:50:50 AM
Congrats on your new digs Andy! You've come this far with this nice build, I'd go for the hand made rod ends. Looking at the other pix, they do add a nice touch and add to the other detail work you've done.  More work, but there is a certain satisfaction to be had in doing it 100% IMO. Is this kit available for sale in the US? Sure would like to have a go at one.  Paul
Title: Re: Retlas
Post by: Art K on October 19, 2016, 03:21:27 AM
Andy,
I seemed to have missed your build here, Your work is very good. As far as the purchased item. The beauty of this hobby is that you can personalize your engine any way you want and it's not wrong. :old: That's my bit if wisdom. I built an Upshur vertical single and modified the cylinder and head giving it a lot more cooling. It has gotten hot enough to melt the Perry carb (plastic) but has never seized up due to overheating, in spite of running 6000rpm for 20 minutes. I've since moved the carb further away. This has the effect of cooling (refrigerating)the carb now.
Art
Title: Re: Retlas
Post by: Alyn Foundry on October 19, 2016, 06:45:45 PM
Hello Andy.

Andy wrote.

 " I am also tempted to use commercially manufactured rod end bearings, they have a very smooth action and would accommodate the slightest misalignment. I also reckon they would look ok... any observations? "

I have attached a photo of one of the slightly later vertical Gardner enclosed crank engines. I think that with the right flat head screw and a little reshaping those joints would look just fine.

Kind regards, Graham.
Title: Re: Retlas
Post by: Alyn Foundry on October 19, 2016, 07:05:42 PM
Congrats on your new digs Andy! You've come this far with this nice build, I'd go for the hand made rod ends. Looking at the other pix, they do add a nice touch and add to the other detail work you've done.  More work, but there is a certain satisfaction to be had in doing it 100% IMO. Is this kit available for sale in the US? Sure would like to have a go at one.  Paul

Hello Paul.

There is now a single Retlas kit living in the USA..... It moved earlier on this year.   ;)

At the present time Geoff Challinor has no one running the Anson engine museum shop, I will let members know when and if things change.

I have decided to let the museum have all my engine patterns for both preservation, and or use.

kind regards, Graham.
Title: Re: Retlas
Post by: Chipmaster on October 19, 2016, 09:03:18 PM
Hi Paul, unfortunately this Alyn Foundry kit hasn't been available for several years, I was extremely lucky to obtain the castings about a year ago. I'll use the commercially made rod end bearings to speed things up but will probably make my own when / if the engine is running and ready for cosmetic treatment.
Andy
Title: Re: Retlas
Post by: Chipmaster on October 19, 2016, 09:12:14 PM
Hi Art, I've been watching your Upshur vertical single roaring away on YouTube, it runs very well. The black plastic carb looks like a barrel throttle surrounding a needle valve which reminds me of my old Electronic Developments (ED) diesel engines that I used to power various model boats. ED switched from alloy to black nylon carbs, the engines never got hot enough to melt the carbs.
Andy
Title: Re: Retlas
Post by: Chipmaster on October 19, 2016, 09:25:46 PM
Hello Graham,
thanks for that picture, the rod ends are very similar to the pair I bought on eBay for £5.36. To hold the end bearing in place for the photo I poked a 1/4 Whit cap head screw though the hole. Don't fear, I'll rectify that. Now what do you think of the dome head nut on the end of the support pillar ? :stir:

Andy
Title: Re: Retlas
Post by: Myrickman on October 19, 2016, 11:46:31 PM
Thanks for the update on the kits Andy and Graham. Certainly  a nice looking engine. The valve mechanism is pleasing.
Title: Re: Retlas
Post by: Alyn Foundry on October 21, 2016, 07:05:32 PM
Hello Graham,
  Now what do you think of the dome head nut on the end of the support pillar ? :stir:

Andy

Hello Andy.

Nice touch!

You may have mentioned it but, what form of ignition are you going to use?

I have seen original drawings for a contact maker fitted to the horizontal engines, just wondering what you are thinking of ?

Not many know that Gardner kept almost all production items " In house " even down to Lubricators and Spark plugs. If you manage to get over to the Anson I will ask Geoff to show you a Gardner HT plug....... they're really unusual to look at !!

Kind regards, Graham.
Title: Re: Retlas
Post by: Chipmaster on October 22, 2016, 11:41:20 AM
Hi Graham,
I thought I'd be admonished for using the domed nut, I think my chances of getting to the Anson museum next weekend are slim. Will you be running a selection of Alyn Foundry engines on the Sunday?

For the Retlas ignition I am thinking of using an electronic system that would be easy to conceal. I have two to chose from, one is a Minimag system that I bought at the Harrogate show last year which works very well. The other is an unused R.H.C. system that I bought on eBay several years ago but I haven't tried it out because I'm not confident of how to connect a battery to it....

Here is the system complete with a tiny spark plug, I think these were meant to convert engines such as Merco 61's into sparkies.

(https://c6.staticflickr.com/6/5509/30485365085_2063bbe6fe_z.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/NrTsWR)R.H.C. EM8 electronic ignition system (https://flic.kr/p/NrTsWR) by Andy (https://www.flickr.com/photos/116764188@N08/), on Flickr

(https://c5.staticflickr.com/6/5609/29854574244_3a703d41ae_z.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/Mu9uNG)RHC igntion system (https://flic.kr/p/Mu9uNG) by Andy (https://www.flickr.com/photos/116764188@N08/), on Flickr

(https://c1.staticflickr.com/6/5342/30368439872_7c769e9043_z.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/Ngyc9U)RHC instructions (https://flic.kr/p/Ngyc9U) by Andy (https://www.flickr.com/photos/116764188@N08/), on Flickr

My problem is that there are three wires White Red and Black in a plug which would be connected to the battery harness that I don't have. The instructions state the unit runs on 4.8v so why have three wires going to the battery - does anyone have any thoughts on this ?
I would assume the black wire is the negative connection and the red and white wires could be linked together. However it would be a shame to ruin it.
I tried to contact the manufacturer Ray Crago using the numbers printed on the box and instructions without success.

Here is the spark plug included in the kit.
(https://c7.staticflickr.com/9/8680/29854580094_92c9995e69_z.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/Mu9wxy)RHC spark plug (https://flic.kr/p/Mu9wxy) by Andy (https://www.flickr.com/photos/116764188@N08/), on Flickr.

Andy
Title: Re: Retlas
Post by: Roger B on October 22, 2016, 02:02:22 PM
The plugs and cables are standard RC model servo cables so Red +, Black -, White control signal. Can you check the connections on the back of the Switch and see if and how the white wire is connected?
Title: Re: Retlas
Post by: Chipmaster on October 22, 2016, 03:16:04 PM
Thanks Roger,
the white red and black wires entered a small black rubber sleeve just before the switch, I pulled the sleeve back and could see the that only the red and white wires were connected to the double pole slide switch

(https://c6.staticflickr.com/6/5470/30488738645_c810767a35_z.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/NsbKMF)P1060049 (https://flic.kr/p/NsbKMF) by Andy (https://www.flickr.com/photos/116764188@N08/), on Flickr

I removed the rubber sleeve to show the -ve black wire had simply been looped inside the sleeve.

(https://c7.staticflickr.com/9/8645/29857921014_e119aa5cd0_z.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/MurDFC)P1060053 (https://flic.kr/p/MurDFC) by Andy (https://www.flickr.com/photos/116764188@N08/), on Flickr

Should I connect the white control signal wire for my stationary engine model? What is the control wire for, it appears to run throughout the system from battery plug to the Hall sensor.

Regards
Andy
Title: Re: Retlas
Post by: Roger B on October 22, 2016, 03:25:49 PM
The white wire from the hall sensor carries the signal to the ignition system. I'm not sure of the purpose of the white wire in the battery connection. I would suggest that you initially ignore it and just use the red and black wires.
Title: Re: Retlas
Post by: Chipmaster on October 22, 2016, 03:35:20 PM
Thank you very much for your help Roger.
I had compared the RHC system to the Minimag which has two wires for connection to a battery as expected. I'll see whether I can set the RHC system up for testing.

Andy
Title: Re: Retlas
Post by: Roger B on October 22, 2016, 04:08:15 PM
Reading the instructions closely the white battery wire my be for the advance/retard system mentioned. At the speed the Retlas will operate it can be safely ignored.
Title: Re: Retlas
Post by: Alyn Foundry on October 22, 2016, 05:30:32 PM
Hello Andy.

We will be playing with almost anything we can get our hands on! Don't worry if you can't make it, I know it's a long haul from the Midlands.

Regarding that electronic ignition unit is there a part number on the Hall effect transistor? We might be able to establish what the White wire does.

I was always " old school " where HT ignition was concerned. I built many from the coils of old Suffolk lawnmowers. A simple attracted Iron armature with some auto ignition points and a " Buzz box " was born!

Really looking forward to seeing the first run on video..... I remember well the first pops of life from my Sphinx engine, actually in front of quite a large audience. Vincent and I decided to complete the engine at the Hanmer steam rally, he had a portable generator so we had some power for the few tools needed to finish it. The feeling of satisfaction was immense!

Kind regards, Graham.
Title: Re: Retlas
Post by: Chipmaster on October 22, 2016, 05:54:00 PM
Hello Roger,
I set up the RHC electronic ignition unit with a three AA cell battery box and it worked briefly with or without the white wire connected as you expected. However,  the spark was far too weak, it would just about manage a ten thou gap but couldn't manage an arc across the RHC miniature spark plug points. Incidentally, I could only get a result by using the neodymium magnet from the Minimag, it wouldn't fire using the little bar magnet provided with the RHC. Perhaps the unit is past it's use by date. Not to worry it didn't cost much.

In stark contrast minutes later the Minimag was producing strong sparks that jumped a 0.125" gap and also fired the RHC spark plug with ease.

Hi Graham, you posted as I was finishing off the above. The RHC unit appears to be a failure, I reckon the Retlas would snuff out any sparks it managed to produce. There are no discernable identification marks on the Hall Effect Trigger but as you can see from the above it worked with or without the white wire connected.
"Old School" - I have used a 12v Lucas coil from an old Triumph motor bike with great success on my other engines equipped with 'old school' contact points and condenser. That produces sparks that jump half an inch but I think it kills the CM-6 spark plugs I use so I keep a good stock of them.

I bought a trembler coil for my Economy engine which is very effective, there are a couple of videos of that engine within my build log.

Andy

Andy
Title: Re: Retlas
Post by: Chipmaster on November 09, 2016, 02:17:25 PM
I haven't made much progress over the last week because of supervising some building work at home and being mauled by my dentist  :'(
However, I have been able to do some work on the inertia type governor, this is the plan,
(https://c4.staticflickr.com/6/5665/30242474443_5529e4bbc7_c.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/N5qA2a)221 Retlas Holts Style Inertia Governor (https://flic.kr/p/N5qA2a) by Andy (https://www.flickr.com/photos/116764188@N08/), on Flickr

And to show what I'm trying to achieve here's a photo of the valve gear on a completed Retlas taken ten years ago.
(https://c7.staticflickr.com/6/5563/30762344942_9fdf7b9148_z.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/NSn4pC)Valve operating gear (https://flic.kr/p/NSn4pC) by Andy (https://www.flickr.com/photos/116764188@N08/), on Flickr
The geometry of the governor had to be improvised because the valve chest casting is deeper than normal and I had to tailor make other parts to fit each other.

So I started off with a 9/16 square steel bar and milled, shaped, sawed and filed it to shape. I wanted to keep the little tripping ramp part of the trigger as solid bar but if needed I can file it down and solder on a new ramp in the optimum position. A pieces of scrap aluminium was made into a temporary tripping point.

(https://c3.staticflickr.com/6/5818/30245595434_3ed15f26c8_z.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/N5GzMm)Building Retlas 752 (https://flic.kr/p/N5GzMm) by Andy (https://www.flickr.com/photos/116764188@N08/), on Flickr

(https://c6.staticflickr.com/6/5555/30877714845_4eacdd508b_z.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/P3ymRT)Building Retlas 755 (https://flic.kr/p/P3ymRT) by Andy (https://www.flickr.com/photos/116764188@N08/), on Flickr

(https://c5.staticflickr.com/6/5476/30841378476_792220da33_z.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/NZm8jL)Building Retlas 756 (https://flic.kr/p/NZm8jL) by Andy (https://www.flickr.com/photos/116764188@N08/), on Flickr

(https://c2.staticflickr.com/6/5444/30877735425_b9bbc80a70_z.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/P3ysYH)Building Retlas 757 (https://flic.kr/p/P3ysYH) by Andy (https://www.flickr.com/photos/116764188@N08/), on Flickr

(https://c1.staticflickr.com/6/5495/30576455960_fecc9b97fe_z.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/NzWk6b)Building Retlas 758 (https://flic.kr/p/NzWk6b) by Andy (https://www.flickr.com/photos/116764188@N08/), on Flickr

Here are a couple of videos to demonstrate the action of the governor which opens the gas valve which will be timed to open about 1/32" behind the inlet valve. The gas valve will only be opened a minimal amount, the governor only has to miss the valve stem I don't intend to have it pushing against the valve spring collar when the engine is running.

These two videos are on Flickr, clicking on the image opens my Flickr album where you click on the play arrow in the centre of the screen.

(https://c6.staticflickr.com/6/5474/30789134101_5a29fa2323_z.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/NUJmTF)Holts Governor MP4 (https://flic.kr/p/NUJmTF) by Andy (https://www.flickr.com/photos/116764188@N08/), on Flickr

(https://c7.staticflickr.com/6/5724/30841318926_97e5e843e4_z.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/NZkPC3)Hotls Governor on Retlas (https://flic.kr/p/NZkPC3) by Andy (https://www.flickr.com/photos/116764188@N08/), on Flickr

By the way this is all jury rigged at the moment.
Andy
 

 
Title: Re: Retlas
Post by: yogi on November 11, 2016, 12:32:42 AM
Nice progress Andy!  :ThumbsUp: :ThumbsUp: :ThumbsUp:
Inertia governor are fascinating to watch. Well done!
Title: Re: Retlas
Post by: Dave Otto on November 11, 2016, 12:40:16 AM
Nice progress Andy!
I do like the pendulum governors.



Dave
Title: Re: Retlas
Post by: fumopuc on November 11, 2016, 04:52:21 AM
Hi Andy, thanks for taking the time to show the function of this governor. Will be good to see the engine running soon.
Title: Re: Retlas
Post by: Chipmaster on December 18, 2016, 10:19:35 PM
Last Monday 12th Dec I decided to try the engine out for a few short runs without a cooling system but with plenty of oil. It started with the first turn of the crank. However, a knocking sound developed and was apparent that the gib key securing the flywheel to the crank needed to be a better fit. I tried the engine out again this afternoon, here's the edited videos I uploaded onto YouTube....

GlAti3CkX_0
Some basic and fine tuning is necessary together with a cooling system so the engine can bed in. Once the engine is running smoothly I'll work out how to present it and decide on the paint job.

Andy
Title: Re: Retlas
Post by: Jasonb on December 18, 2016, 10:44:37 PM
Looking good :pinkelephant:
Title: Re: Retlas
Post by: yogi on December 18, 2016, 09:34:45 PM
Fantastic engine Andy!!!  :ThumbsUp: :ThumbsUp: :ThumbsUp:
I love the motion of the valve gear. Well done!
Title: Re: Retlas
Post by: Chipmaster on December 18, 2016, 11:58:13 PM
Thanks for the comments Jason and yogi.

I reckon it will take me a few months to finish it off, my biggest problem will be choosing the colour scheme!

Andy
Title: Re: Retlas
Post by: fumopuc on December 19, 2016, 01:45:13 AM
Looking really good. A very interesting motion of these hit and miss cycels.
Title: Re: Retlas
Post by: Dave Otto on December 19, 2016, 02:49:16 AM
Hey Andy

Congrats on the first pops! The engine is larger than I had thought; looks to be a nice size lump of iron.
I like the pendulum governor and the interesting valve linkage; also how slow she runs.

Very nice!
Dave
Title: Re: Retlas
Post by: Kim on December 19, 2016, 07:54:46 AM
That's really cool, Andy!  I'm not familiar with a pendulum governor.  I'll have to look into how that works.  Congratulations on a runner!
Kim
Title: Re: Retlas
Post by: Alyn Foundry on December 19, 2016, 10:20:56 PM
Well done Andy!!

Very much " alive and kicking " !  You must be very proud ?

She seems a little tight at the moment but should improve with a few runs.

May I be a bit pedantic ? The Retlas employs an inertia governor this should not be confused with a Pendulum governor. I had hoped to provide a video of a Robinson HA engine which has such a governor but it will have to wait until the New year. I have, however attached a picture of a model Robinson for clarification.

Kind regards, Graham.

Title: Re: Retlas
Post by: Roger B on December 19, 2016, 11:16:34 PM
Excellent  :praise2:  :praise2: The valve gear is interesting with a huge amount of lost motion  ::) I have been looking at similar concepts for my fuel injection sytems.
Title: Re: Retlas
Post by: Chipmaster on December 20, 2016, 07:40:03 PM
Hi Graham,
Yes, the Retlas has quite a kick, in the video you can see it has to be held down to stop it bouncing around. The bouncing also affects the governor – makes it swing when I don’t want it to. I understand your point about the name of the governor. The plans call it a Holts Inertia governor which is the same as the Gardner 0 type. I’d like to know more about the origins of these governors but I can’t find any information about the Holts Inertia or Pendulum governors on the Internet or my books, who was Holts ?
I can see the pendulum hanging beneath the Robinsons valve gear in your post  so I look forward to a video of the pendulum governor in the new year if you can find one.
Meanwhile there is much for me to do, including,
•   Make up a cooling system.
•   Make an exhaust system.
•   Finish the governor properly.
•   Open up the air intake which is only ¼” at the moment.
•   Make a sump - it hasn’t got one so I have been placing layers of tissues under the engine to soak up the oil that passes through the engine.
•   Running in the engine.
•   Make a smaller electronic ignition timing disc that houses the neodymium magnet and hide it on the crankshaft between the flywheel and  main bearing.
Andy
Title: Re: Retlas
Post by: vcutajar on December 20, 2016, 07:45:34 PM
Nice runner Andy.  Congratulations.

Vince
Title: Re: Retlas
Post by: Chipmaster on December 20, 2016, 07:58:52 PM
Hi Dave, Achim, Kim, Roger and Vince.
Thanks for your posts.
The 'lost valve motion' is the consequence of using eccentrics. I chose to position the rod end bearing further away from the pivot to reduce the amount of travel on the inlet side yet there's still enough action to give the governor a sharp kick! I'm interested in making the engine as docile as possible.

Andy
Title: Re: Retlas
Post by: Alyn Foundry on December 21, 2016, 08:17:44 PM
Hi Graham,
Yes, the Retlas has quite a kick, in the video you can see it has to be held down to stop it bouncing around. The bouncing also affects the governor – makes it swing when I don’t want it to. I understand your point about the name of the governor. The plans call it a Holts Inertia governor which is the same as the Gardner 0 type. I’d like to know more about the origins of these governors but I can’t find any information about the Holts Inertia or Pendulum governors on the Internet or my books, who was Holts ?
I can see the pendulum hanging beneath the Robinsons valve gear in your post  so I look forward to a video of the pendulum governor in the new year if you can find one.
Meanwhile there is much for me to do, including,
•   Make up a cooling system.
•   Make an exhaust system.
•   Finish the governor properly.
•   Open up the air intake which is only ¼” at the moment.
•   Make a sump - it hasn’t got one so I have been placing layers of tissues under the engine to soak up the oil that passes through the engine.
•   Running in the engine.
•   Make a smaller electronic ignition timing disc that houses the neodymium magnet and hide it on the crankshaft between the flywheel and  main bearing.
Andy

Hi Andy.

I too have trawled the internet for reference material but to no avail. It would require painstaking study of the patent records to find relevant information.

When Vincent first showed his Retlas to the public it was an " Old hand " who said " that's a holts style governor " on that engine. It stuck !!

The Pendulum style might be a Robinson ( H ) not ( AE ) patent as I have only seen it on Robinson patent engines of the 1895 era.

It's very simple in operation, as the swing of the pendulum increases the arm attached to the pivot puts a " Sprag " on the closing exhaust valve and the engine slows down. ( Hit and miss )
Engines fitted with this style of governor DO need to be firmly anchored to the ground as vibration causes havoc with their delicate operation.

All the very best for Christmas and the New year, Graham.

Nadolig llawen a blwyddyn newydd dda   ;)
Title: Re: Retlas
Post by: Chipmaster on February 13, 2017, 10:50:59 PM
I haven't been able to do much work on the Retlas since before Christmas when I could only run it for short bursts without a cooling system.

I managed to return to the job a couple of weeks ago when I made up a temporary wooden mount for the engine, fabricated a brass cooling tank and assembled them so that I can run the engine for prolonged periods and work out how to finish it properly.
I filled the cooling system with something called 4-Life that a friend gave to me some time ago. The 4-Life coolant container has lost its original label, it just has a piece of masking tape with 4-Life and 2002 written on it. It has been kept in unopened 5L plastic containers but I have no idea whether it’s effective or perhaps hazardous, the colour is red.
I’m keen to minimise corrosion in the engines water jacket and cylinder head and had considered central heating corrosion inhibitors as I’m not concerned with anti-freeze. I have also searched the internet and looked at inorganic versus organic additives but can't see an obvious product for model engines
I would like to hear of any additives other members can recommend to protect model engine cooling systems or perhaps I’m just being too fussy?

(https://c1.staticflickr.com/3/2433/32845817286_6c035b3fec_z.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/S3tp9A)P1060118 (https://flic.kr/p/S3tp9A) by Andy (https://www.flickr.com/photos/116764188@N08/), on Flickr

(https://c1.staticflickr.com/3/2465/32044004764_10a2c0fa7a_z.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/QPBUdL)P1060135 (https://flic.kr/p/QPBUdL) by Andy (https://www.flickr.com/photos/116764188@N08/), on Flickr

(https://c1.staticflickr.com/3/2084/32886532675_f3a80c61a4_z.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/S755q4)P1060143 (https://flic.kr/p/S755q4) by Andy (https://www.flickr.com/photos/116764188@N08/), on Flickr

(https://c1.staticflickr.com/3/2300/32506336920_3c340bd249_z.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/RwttsQ)P1060147 (https://flic.kr/p/RwttsQ) by Andy (https://www.flickr.com/photos/116764188@N08/), on Flickr

(https://c1.staticflickr.com/3/2032/32845854246_23f961d4ed_z.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/S3tA8Q)P1060115 (https://flic.kr/p/S3tA8Q) by Andy (https://www.flickr.com/photos/116764188@N08/), on Flickr

Here's a poor quality un-edited video of the engine running this afternoon. I keep an expendable 12 year old Sony digital camera in my workshop but the images have deteriorated to the point I reckon it's time to get rid of it. Perhaps tomorrow I'll be able to use my regular camera to record a better video of the engine.

Click on this picture and you'll be taken to my flickr album where another click on the picture will start the video.

(https://c1.staticflickr.com/3/2655/32886720375_55d1c77d51_z.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/S763dg)Retlas with cooling tank (https://flic.kr/p/S763dg) by Andy (https://www.flickr.com/photos/116764188@N08/), on Flickr

Andy
Title: Re: Retlas
Post by: Dave Otto on February 13, 2017, 11:57:11 PM
Very nice Andy.

I enjoyed the video too! I would also be interested in what people think about cooling water additives. I would like to find something preferably clear that would stop the corrosion of metal parts and also be kind to painted finishes.

Dave
Title: Re: Retlas
Post by: Jasonb on February 14, 2017, 07:39:19 AM
Looking good Andy

I wonder if one of the boiler treatments would work at the lower temperatures, something like the TS (treatment steel) that Heritage Steam do.

https://www.heritagesteamsupplies.co.uk/water-treatment/boiler-water-treatment.html

I have also heard of people using a very light weight oil in the cooling system.
Title: Re: Retlas
Post by: vcutajar on February 14, 2017, 08:22:22 AM
Nice one Andy. :ThumbsUp: :NotWorthy:

Vince
Title: Re: Retlas
Post by: Steamer5 on February 14, 2017, 08:32:03 AM
Hi Andy,
 That is looking so nice! Runs well as well, just love the sound!

Have you got a paint scheme sorted yet? Sure if you haven't then you'll get any amount of suggestion here!

On the water treatment front, I would go to your auto parts store hunt out radiator coolant that's compatible with cast iron. Given the number of aluminium engines out there you might have to hunt around, guessing that the formulation will be tailored to suit materials. Follow the instruction for mixing strength, 5 litres of the concentrate should out last most of us!

Cheers Kerrin
Title: Re: Retlas
Post by: Roger B on February 14, 2017, 11:19:52 AM
Nicely done  :praise2:  :praise2:  :wine1:

Have you had any problems with corrosion? I have always just drained the water off while then engine was still warm/hot so it dried out.
Title: Re: Retlas
Post by: Chipmaster on February 14, 2017, 06:35:01 PM
Here’s a better video of my Retlas taken with a more recent handycam. The ignition timing was advanced a half way through the video little.

Xadf0Jnj4WY
I usually supply my gas engines with propane from a small cylinder fitted with a sensitive variable two stage regulator that will maintain a steady low pressure normally ½ psi. This is rather a bulky arrangement so I tried out a Cadac EN417 regulator that fits a C500 disposable cartridge containing a 70% butane 30% propane mix.  The fixed regulator delivers gas at 29mbar ~ 1/2psi. The arrangement seems to work and is preferable to carrying heavy propane cylinders about. I may try it out with a C250 cartridge that could be concealed about the model.
(https://c1.staticflickr.com/3/2013/32856506166_56a8e0275e_z.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/S4qbzC)Building Retlas 815 (https://flic.kr/p/S4qbzC) by Andy (https://www.flickr.com/photos/116764188@N08/), on Flickr
(https://c1.staticflickr.com/3/2389/32773344501_861a872e08_z.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/RW4XvP)Building Retlas 816 (https://flic.kr/p/RW4XvP) by Andy (https://www.flickr.com/photos/116764188@N08/), on Flickr
(https://c1.staticflickr.com/1/271/32517018450_4fcc48103b_z.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/RxqdH9)Building Retlas 817 (https://flic.kr/p/RxqdH9) by Andy (https://www.flickr.com/photos/116764188@N08/), on Flickr


Hi Kerrin, for the paint job I have chosen Graphite Grey, still thinking about anti corrosion additives.
(https://c1.staticflickr.com/3/2747/32861517996_fa258f4dd1_n.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/S4RSqu)Graphite Grey (https://flic.kr/p/S4RSqu) by Andy (https://www.flickr.com/photos/116764188@N08/), on Flickr

Andy
Title: Re: Retlas
Post by: Chipmaster on February 14, 2017, 07:40:56 PM
Anti corrosion additives....

Hi Roger I always drain the water from my engines as soon as I have finished running them like you. Excluding the Retlas I have three with water jackets, an Alyn Foundry Gardner 0 Type, plus two hot air engines, a Heinrici  and a 1/4 scale Rider Ericsson. I haven't had any problems with them so far, the Heinrici has an aluminium jacket anyway. Since I made the Gardner nearly 20 years ago I have occasionally flushed out the  model and it takes a few minutes before the flushing water runs clear. When I ran the more recent Rider Ericsson hot air engine (which pumps water around a cast iron cylinder liner in an aluminium block) clear water always got to look mucky quite quickly due to rust so I started using the old 4-Life coolant in that model. It looks attractive - raspberry red but it may be hazardous and like Dave Otto I'd prefer a clear coolant. However, the 4-Life hasn't been unkind to the paintwork.

Tannin boiler water treatment as suggested by Jason might be a possibility that I'll look in to, perhaps I can get somebody in our club Black Country Live Steamers to donate a small quantity for me to try out.

Andy
Title: Re: Retlas
Post by: Dave Otto on February 15, 2017, 12:42:11 AM
My friend Max has a Stickney model that has a pump jack attached to it; he runs mineral oil in it (the pump only). It is crystal clear and because of the viscosity it doesn't splash around and make a mess. I'm not sure how it would work in an engine though.

Dave
Title: Re: Retlas
Post by: Chipmaster on February 15, 2017, 05:35:28 PM
Hi Dave.
A friend and I would like to build water pumps for our model engines to drive. We're not aware of any castings for pumps available in the UK. As we can't find a source for the pump jacks seen with several model engines in the USA could you suggest anybody selling water pump castings please?
Andy
Title: Re: Retlas
Post by: AOG on February 15, 2017, 05:41:52 PM
While not specifically a water pump how about the Stuart oil pump jack?

http://www.stuartmodels.com/item/53/oil-field-pump-unmachined (http://www.stuartmodels.com/item/53/oil-field-pump-unmachined)

Tony
Title: Re: Retlas
Post by: Jasonb on February 15, 2017, 06:34:44 PM
You might have a word with Maury on here

http://www.lonestarengineworks.com/aeromotor_engine.html

I also have most of the drawings for a really nice one that does not need castings, give me a couple of hours and I'll post photos.

I too will need to make one to go with my small Monitor VJ engine.
Title: Re: Retlas
Post by: Jasonb on February 15, 2017, 07:48:13 PM
Could you be tempted by a Myers 3" pump :naughty:

(http://i28.photobucket.com/albums/c242/snaky121/pump/SAM_0012.jpg)

Uses fast n loose pullys

(http://i28.photobucket.com/albums/c242/snaky121/pump/SAM_0016.jpg)
Title: Re: Retlas
Post by: Dave Otto on February 16, 2017, 12:33:39 AM
Tom Alexander (Iowa Miniature Engines) used to sell a pump jack kit as well as Joe Tochtrop but I think both of them may be out of business though. According to The Davis Model engine suppliers page Joe is out of business. Not sure about Tom. I will ask around. As indicated Maury might know is someone out there is selling pump jack kits. I will ask Max where he got the castings for his pump; I'm thinking that it was from Tom Alexander.

http://www.antiquengines.com/Davis_Model_Suppliers_List_.htm

Nice looking pump Jason! One other option is there was a Fuller Johnson pump jack and engine that was all fabricated featured in Strictly IC magazine; I will have to do some digging to find which issues it was in.

Dave
Title: Re: Retlas
Post by: Jo on February 16, 2017, 07:39:15 AM
The Fuller Pump is in SIC mag-page: 20-21, 22-11, 23-11, 24-26, 25-5.

Jo
Title: Re: Retlas
Post by: Alyn Foundry on February 16, 2017, 09:38:33 AM
Hello Andy.

Lovely!!

I noticed in the video that the gas valve sometimes gets pecked at more than once, is the lever catching the spring collet? You might need to move it up a little?

Regarding water treatment that's something I have never really worried about. The only engine that clogged up was the Akroyd, in fact not the engine but the Steel plumbing! An alternative might be to try
" Cathodic protection " using a piece of pure Zinc suspended in the water tank. This was used in marine applications as the saltwater eroded the metal and plated the inner surfaces, might take a lot more time in ordinary water though.

I would suggest a Dynamo for the Retlas as they provide a constant load condition. Vincent designed one,
a " Manchester " style, using the armature from a Lucas 12 volt car dynamo. Hmmm, that's going to be a rare beast, I don't remember selling many kits, I haven't even got a photo of one.

I'm looking forward to seeing the engine painted.

Kind regards, Graham.
Title: Re: Retlas
Post by: Chipmaster on February 16, 2017, 10:25:07 AM
Morning Graham, good to hear from you. When I travelled to Wrexham and collected my Alyn Foundry RLE castings my friend who accompanied me that day bought dynamo castings off you. I don't know what happened to the castings, he passed away years ago so I expect they were wasted. I have often thought about using an old Lucas dynamo to have a go at recreating that 'Manchester Style' dynamo. The foundry I told you about would do the castings if I made up the patterns.
Yes the lever does catch the collet occasionally so I need to make some adjustment.

Andy
Title: Re: Retlas
Post by: Chipmaster on February 16, 2017, 10:59:54 AM
Hi Tony thanks for suggesting the Stuart oil well pump which I had forgotten, can't recall seeing one other than in pictures. It would probably look great with this particular engine if it was in a larger scale. When I'm ready I might get one to go with my Alyn Foundry RLE engine.

Andy
Title: Re: Retlas
Post by: Alyn Foundry on February 16, 2017, 12:26:39 PM
Morning Graham, good to hear from you. When I travelled to Wrexham and collected my Alyn Foundry RLE castings my friend who accompanied that day me bought dynamo castings off you. I don't know what happened to the castings, he passed away hears ago so I expect they were wasted. I have often thought about using an old Lucas dynamo to have a go at recreating that 'Manchester Style' dynamo. The foundry I told you about would do the castings if I made up the patterns.
Yes the lever does catch the collet occasionally so I need to make some adjustment.

Andy

Hi Andy.

Well...... I have the " Amended " patterns here, I re did the main bearing ones into split form.

The only problem I see is that the armature we used would now be at a premium price as they were being phased out in the late " 60's " classic car premium!

An idea might be to use an armature from a washing machine, some models were fitted with a permanent magnet stator, large vacuum cleaner motor? The output voltage would be a lot higher obviously but what the actual value might be is unknown.

Food for thought.

Kind regards, Graham.
Title: Re: Retlas
Post by: Chipmaster on February 16, 2017, 08:52:00 PM
Hi Graham, yes please.
Reckon it's worth having a go with one of these armatures being offered on eBay http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/130824-12-VOLT-12V-22-AMP-LUCAS-C40-DYNAMO-ARMATURE-UW100-UWB102-227271-26212754-/281815295225?hash=item419d8024f9:g:-GYAAOSwj85YL0Hf
These folk in Solihull have a range of armatures for C40 dynamos, can you recall whether a specific armature was required?

I only saw the 'Manchester' dynamo castings when my late friend Ted bought a set when we called at Tuttle Street in Wrexham to buy my RLE castings from you. That may be 20 years ago, I vaguely remember a rectangular base, perhaps two bearing caps and I think there were plans.

This afternoon I remembered that I made up a dynamo using the heater motor from a Ford Sierra and 3 aluminium castings bought at a model engineering show in Wembley. The Sierra motor is quite capable of producing over twelve volts when driven by a cordless drill. I had intended to drive it with my model Gardner 0 type but the engine didn't take to it.
I attach some pictures of it, Naturally  I did get a much higher voltage driving the dynamo belted up to the flywheel but it made the engine difficult to start.

(https://c1.staticflickr.com/3/2233/32124739643_cecf666b4f_z.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/QWKFTr)P1060168 (https://flic.kr/p/QWKFTr) by Andy (https://www.flickr.com/photos/116764188@N08/), on Flickr

(https://c1.staticflickr.com/4/3830/32815149711_bc7221f39e_z.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/RZLdKi)P1060167 (https://flic.kr/p/RZLdKi) by Andy (https://www.flickr.com/photos/116764188@N08/), on Flickr

(https://c1.staticflickr.com/4/3694/32785726962_e215de153d_z.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/RXaqow)P1060163 (https://flic.kr/p/RXaqow) by Andy (https://www.flickr.com/photos/116764188@N08/), on Flickr

Here's a video of my Gardner 0 Type driving the dynamo at a very low speed..
2yO7v-WRNCg
Andy
Title: Re: Retlas
Post by: Alyn Foundry on February 27, 2017, 06:58:09 PM
Hi Andy and All.

Some interesting photos arrived today....   ;)

Kind regards, Graham.
Title: Re: Retlas
Post by: Chipmaster on February 27, 2017, 07:52:41 PM
Thanks very much for adding those pictures Graham, I'll study the Retlas picture carefully.

I've been running my Retlas for lengthy periods to bed it in, it was so noisy that I had to finish machining an Alyn Foundry cast iron exhaust pot and connect it. The result is terrific, reduced the exhaust to a quiet chuffing sound.
My engine is rather sensitive to the incoming gas pressure so I tried it out with a little demand valve that I made to J E Howell's design. The demand valve has transformed the engine making it easy to start every time and it runs for at least an hour without missing a beat.
Running my Retlas for an hour throws a fair amount of oil about because I've been generous with setting the drip feed oilers at this stage. Because of the mess I started work making a sump for it this afternoon.
Andy
Title: Re: Retlas
Post by: Alyn Foundry on February 28, 2017, 02:21:41 PM
Hi Andy.

That Retlas kit was sold and built within the last 10 years, as was the Black Retlas dynamo.

The Green one was photographed some time ago, builder/owner unknown.

It reads like you have " tamed the beast " I'm looking forward to seeing it in the " flesh " so to speak.

Kind regards, Graham.
Title: Re: Retlas
Post by: Bluechip on February 28, 2017, 05:24:46 PM
Very nice dynamos ...  :ThumbsUp:   Reminiscent of a Mather & Platt  I once knew.

Are they 3-brush? Can't quite see.

Dave

Title: Re: Retlas
Post by: Chipmaster on February 28, 2017, 06:00:20 PM
OK Graham I'll have to bring it up to show you when it has been painted and properly set up.
Mike C called in this afternoon to see the Retlas  running and to try out his Garretson demand valve on my engine - it ran just the same as with my home made valve. However, the Hall Effect sensor of my Minimag ignition system packed up, rather annoying as it has only lasted for about ten hours use. I was able to substitute a sensor from old RHC system that has different coloured wires but after some trial and error wiring set ups I got the engine running again.

I like the compact Minimag system but they charge £15 for a replacement Hall Effect Sensor kit, perhaps I was unlucky but I'm now looking for a cheaper source in case that happens again. The blown sensor is marked  451S OGL. As the Minimag system operates on two AA batteries I assume I need a sensor that is rated for a range starting at around 3V.

Looking on-line I see RS sell a Honeywell SS460S Sensor 'switching current 20 mA supply voltage 3 → 24 V dc' for £0.65
and another Honeywell SS49E-F 'current 1.5 mA supply voltage 2.7 → 6.5 V dc' for £2.48.

Can anybody interpret what make and model the defective sensor marked 451s OGL is and suggest a source (preferably UK) or advise me whether the choice of sensor is critical?

Thanks

Andy
Title: Re: Retlas
Post by: Alyn Foundry on February 28, 2017, 06:38:22 PM
Very nice dynamos ...  :ThumbsUp:   Reminiscent of a Mather & Platt  I once knew.

Are they 3-brush? Can't quite see.

Dave

Hello Dave.

Ah Mather and Platt..... Brings back some fond memories. I started my working career with the Wrexham & East Denbighshire Water Company as an apprentice electrician.. One of my first experiences was replacing a bearing on the 450 HP motors that drove the massive Mather and Platt pumps.

The Retlas dynamo is commonly known as a " Manchester " style.

Kind regards, Graham.
Title: Re: Retlas
Post by: Alyn Foundry on February 28, 2017, 06:40:20 PM
OK Graham I'll have to bring it up to show you when it has been painted and properly set up.
Mike C called in this afternoon to see the Retlas  running and to try out his Garretson demand valve on my engine - it ran just the same as with my home made valve. However, the Hall Effect sensor of my Minimag ignition system packed up, rather annoying as it has only lasted for about ten hours use. I was able to substitute a sensor from old RHC system that has different coloured wires but after some trial and error wiring set ups I got the engine running again.

I like the compact Minimag system but they charge £15 for a replacement Hall Effect Sensor kit, perhaps I was unlucky but I'm now looking for a cheaper source in case that happens again. The blown sensor is marked  451S OGL. As the Minimag system operates on two AA batteries I assume I need a sensor that is rated for a range starting at around 3V.

Looking on-line I see RS sell a Honeywell SS460S Sensor 'switching current 20 mA supply voltage 3 → 24 V dc' for £0.65
and another Honeywell SS49E-F 'current 1.5 mA supply voltage 2.7 → 6.5 V dc' for £2.48.

Can anybody interpret what make and model the defective sensor marked 451s OGL is and suggest a source (preferably UK) or advise me whether the choice of sensor is critical?

Thanks

Andy


Hi Andy.

Do you have a photo of the " offending " Hall effect transistor please ?

Kind regards, Graham.
Title: Re: Retlas
Post by: Chipmaster on February 28, 2017, 07:39:39 PM
Hi Graham, here are four photos of the sensor which is 3mm square and 1mm thick, it is marked 451S  OGL.

(https://c1.staticflickr.com/4/3914/32358908053_fc0bd636d4_c.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/RirRZP)P1060269 (https://flic.kr/p/RirRZP) by Andy (https://www.flickr.com/photos/116764188@N08/), on Flickr

(https://c1.staticflickr.com/3/2874/32791874910_ef759e3660_c.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/RXGVXC)P1060266 (https://flic.kr/p/RXGVXC) by Andy (https://www.flickr.com/photos/116764188@N08/), on Flickr

(https://c1.staticflickr.com/3/2832/32358909453_b9fe6a8a5f_c.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/RirSpX)P1060263 (https://flic.kr/p/RirSpX) by Andy (https://www.flickr.com/photos/116764188@N08/), on Flickr

(https://c1.staticflickr.com/4/3909/32329130324_39f0a6c7cd_c.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/RfPf7G)P1060262 (https://flic.kr/p/RfPf7G) by Andy (https://www.flickr.com/photos/116764188@N08/), on Flickr

Thanks
Andy
Title: Re: Retlas
Post by: Jasonb on February 28, 2017, 07:51:11 PM
Might be worth contacting Julian at Minimag to see if he will supply just a new sensor rather than the wired up kit one
Title: Re: Retlas
Post by: Bluechip on February 28, 2017, 08:06:33 PM
Andy

Maybe these are suitable. I've used them and they seem pretty robust. ( I can assassinate most semiconducters ...  ;D )

http://cpc.farnell.com/allegro-microsystems/a1120eua-t/hall-effect-switch-unipolar-3sip/dp/SC10233

Cheap enough. ( If they work the same way as the one you have).

The o/p switches low with a south pole to the active face.

Dave
Title: Re: Retlas
Post by: Roger B on February 28, 2017, 08:12:36 PM
Pavel (rarach22) had a fine homemade dynamo on his stationary steam plant. The photo links are broken, but I have PMd him to see if he can fix them.
Title: Re: Retlas
Post by: Chipmaster on February 28, 2017, 08:31:54 PM
Hi Dave, thanks that looks good. The spec shown on the Allegro Microsystems website states,

"Hall Effect Sensor 25mA Unipolar 3.3V/5V/9V/12V/15V/18V 3-Pin Ultra Mini SIP Bulk" so I assume the voltage is ok. At that price its worth having a go. I don't know much about electronics, I know the sensor has to be set up against the correct pole. However you lose me when you say, "The o/p switches low with a south pole to the active face", I don't know how my blown sensor switched. I will have to experiment to find out which way to wire it up and point it towards the magnet.

Thank you very much for your help Dave

Andy
Title: Re: Retlas
Post by: Chipmaster on February 28, 2017, 08:36:11 PM
Hi Jason, I'll try approaching Minimag if I can't find a cheaper solution at least I can keep running the engine using the sensor from the RHC ignition kit.

Andy
Title: Re: Retlas
Post by: Chipmaster on February 28, 2017, 08:37:12 PM
Hi Roger, that would be interesting to see.

Andy
Title: Re: Retlas
Post by: Bluechip on February 28, 2017, 09:32:29 PM

However you lose me when you say, "The o/p switches low with a south pole to the active face", I don't know how my blown sensor switched.


Not much to it. If you run the device from (say) 12V, the output pin will be at, or very near, 12V with no south pole magnetic field near it.

When such a field of sufficient intensity is applied it will pass current through the load resistor causing the bottom end of it ( the o/p pin ) to approach 0V, or close.

http://www.farnell.com/datasheets/1804644.pdf

Look at P12. ( diag. C )

And while we're getting all geeky about it, where's the bypass capacitor from the supply to ground? Should be close to the device. Bit of an iffy design to leave it off.   :thinking:

That's on P12 also, See 'woe-betide'  note re: same .

They do have the effect, amongst others, of helping protecting the device from voltage spikes.

Dave

Obligatory Dietary Note

No pancake for me. Black Pudding instead ...  :Love: :P :P :P

Nighty-night

Title: Re: Retlas
Post by: Chipmaster on March 01, 2017, 10:01:32 AM
Good morning Dave,
I have no knowledge of electronics so I can't go geeky with you. Don't know whether a pair of AA batteries can produce voltage spikes, perhaps there is a bypass capacitor inside the Minimag black box?

I will follow up your suggestion and order a few sensors from CPC today.

Thanks
Andy
Title: Re: Retlas
Post by: Bluechip on March 01, 2017, 01:40:38 PM
Graham:

Batteries won't produce spikes in themselves. The spark current can.

Are we looking at one of these ??

http://minimagneto.co.uk/documents/MCL-1.pdf

I can find no sensible reference searching for the MHS-LV ??

Does not look like any sort of device ID to me ...  :headscratch:

That CPC item should work @ 3V anyway.

I will continue when I've done scraping the bituminous paint off me paws ... knew I should have used gloves ...  :facepalm:

Dave
Title: Re: Retlas
Post by: Alyn Foundry on March 01, 2017, 02:26:37 PM
Graham:

Batteries won't produce spikes in themselves. The spark current can.

Are we looking at one of these ??

http://minimagneto.co.uk/documents/MCL-1.pdf

I can find no sensible reference searching for the MHS-LV ??

Does not look like any sort of device ID to me ...  :headscratch:

That CPC item should work @ 3V anyway.

I will continue when I've done scraping the bituminous paint off me paws ... knew I should have used gloves ...  :facepalm:

Dave

Hello Dave.

I think you might have had " one too many black puddings lad " ...... :)

Andy was asking about spikes.

Kind regards, Graham.
Title: Re: Retlas
Post by: Bluechip on March 01, 2017, 02:57:53 PM
Oops! Sorry ....   :old:

Nowt to do wi' Black Puddings .... Just general mental decay ...  :insane:

Dave
Title: Re: Retlas
Post by: Chipmaster on March 01, 2017, 08:05:18 PM
Hello Dave,
Yes we are looking at one of these http://minimagneto.co.uk/documents/MCL-1.pdf.

Could you tell me what the insulating sleeves are likely to be on my sensor so I can order some and should I use some sort of heat sink when I solder the three wires onto the sensor? I am concerned heat shrinking insulation might destroy the sensor.

Andy
Title: Re: Retlas
Post by: Jasonb on March 01, 2017, 08:19:01 PM
That is heat shrink, just don't overdo the heat when shrinking it. Holding the soldering iron near the sleeve will shrink it and won't put anywhere near as much heat into the sensor as the actual soldering did
Title: Re: Retlas
Post by: Chipmaster on March 01, 2017, 09:17:10 PM
Thanks for the information Jason, I hope my soldering doesn't destroy the sensor.

Andy
Title: Re: Retlas
Post by: Bluechip on March 01, 2017, 09:30:28 PM
Hello Dave,
Yes we are looking at one of these http://minimagneto.co.uk/documents/MCL-1.pdf.

Could you tell me what the insulating sleeves are likely to be on my sensor so I can order some and should I use some sort of heat sink when I solder the three wires onto the sensor? I am concerned heat shrinking insulation might destroy the sensor.

Andy

I use one of these for heat-shrink :

https://www.amazon.co.uk/Bosch-PHG-600-3-Heat-Gun/dp/B0001GRV4Q/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1488402927&sr=8-1&keywords=bosch+hot+air+gun

Well, not that one but similar. Mine is donkey's years old  .... personally designed by Bob himself ..  ;D

Don't buy heat-shrink. Send me your address by PM and I'll send you a selection. Got oodles of the damn stuff here.

Best way to solder is make sure the iron is really hot and tin the wires and leads first. Then touch the wire, lead and iron bit together and it's done. You have enough solder on the parts, no need for more. Solder one connection then wait for about 30 secs. and do the next. This avoids heat build up in the device. ( Although I don't bother and have not killed one of mine yet, but I do have a Weller Station which is temp. controlled. )
Unless you really roast them most devices are fairly robust.

If you are doubtful you can put two aluminium angle bits in your vice jaws and gently grip the plastic bit with the leads sticking up. This will act as a heat sink.

Dave




Title: Re: Retlas
Post by: Chipmaster on March 06, 2017, 05:26:33 PM
I used a piece of 3.5" continuous cast iron bar to make a pile of swarf and a pulley for the engine yesterday in anticipation of being able to build a dynamo to go with it.

(https://c1.staticflickr.com/4/3845/33132714312_d49e182bb8_c.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/StPPD3)P1060288 (https://flic.kr/p/StPPD3) by Andy (https://www.flickr.com/photos/116764188@N08/), on Flickr

Here's a short video of the engine making a nice chugging sound this afternoon.

PdGwj6MacnU
Andy
Title: Re: Retlas
Post by: Jo on March 06, 2017, 05:31:08 PM
 8)

Andy do you not have problems with your propane heater causing rust in your workshop  :paranoia:

Jo
Title: Re: Retlas
Post by: Chipmaster on March 06, 2017, 06:00:50 PM
Gosh Jo and what about the vapour from the engine exhaust?
Actually I get very little rust and how much of that is attributable to the butane gas heater I can't tell. I find lathe chucks and flywheel rims are the most vulnerable to rust in my garage. However, I do keep everything very well oiled. :LittleAngel:
My detached uninsulated garage workshop is 20ft square and a bit draughty but it would be too cold for me during the winter without heat, I have the portable heater right by me wherever I'm working. I'm not out there all day every day. Reckon I use three bottles of gas over the winter and currently I'm being charged £28 for a 15kg refill I wonder if there are effective affordable alternatives?

Andy
Title: Re: Retlas
Post by: Jasonb on March 06, 2017, 06:30:23 PM
And don't forget the steam comming off that mug of tea :disappointed:
Title: Re: Retlas
Post by: Chipmaster on March 06, 2017, 06:37:44 PM
Yes Jason, reckon I should limit the number of hot drinks visitors get!
Andy
Title: Re: Retlas
Post by: Jo on March 06, 2017, 07:08:00 PM
Gosh Jo and what about the vapour from the engine exhaust?

I would be more bothered about breathing in the carbon monoxide coming out of it  :slap:

Quote
I'm not out there all day every day. Reckon I use three bottles of gas over the winter and currently I'm being charged £28 for a 15kg refill I wonder if there are effective affordable alternatives?

That's like spraying your beloved machine tools with a water mister every evening before you leave them to chill out over night ... that water vapour is in turn attracting the rust bug  :paranoia:

New house... new workshop.... sounds like it needs a log burner to keep them warm and drylining would help  :)

Jo

Title: Re: Retlas
Post by: Chipmaster on March 06, 2017, 07:37:27 PM
Yes a log burner would be excellent. I had a nice Spencer wood burner in a large shed / workshop two houses ago, made the workshop so cosy  :smokin2:
I've been using the butane portable heater for about 20 years and ventilation has probably kept rust at bay.
How do you heat your workshop?

Andy
Title: Re: Retlas
Post by: scalemodel on March 06, 2017, 07:50:07 PM
Andy
I heat my workshop with a lot burner with us great all ways ad I get head and a cooking surface for a kettle and frying pan!!
The fact I can make hot drinks is ideal as before I have the fire I never drank enough once I got going and nearly passed out a couple of times.
If you was thinking of a fire I maybe able to fix you up as I got a newish pot belly stove lying about.

P.s the retlas is lovely!!!
Title: Re: Retlas
Post by: Jo on March 06, 2017, 07:50:56 PM
How do you heat your workshop?

Solar Power dumped into a night storage heater. At this time of the year if the sun is out I get enough free juice on top of the 1.5KW the night storage heater uses to top it up with a 1.5 Kw fan heater while I am making swarf over lunchtime  ;D The days I know the sun won't come out it costs me a fortune (nearly 40p a day :disappointed:) to top up night storage heater using my economy 7. I priced up a log burner but decided for the few days that I need to top up the solar powered heater I would never get my money back.

I had a butane/propane heater in my previous workshop until someone pointed out where all the rust was coming from. It is not the surfaces you oil that is the problem it is all those you miss  :(

I do have a log burner but I use that to heat the house and a second house hold night storage heater gets the excess solar power in the afternoon  :naughty:

Jo
Title: Re: Retlas
Post by: Chipmaster on March 06, 2017, 08:45:06 PM
Hi Jonathan,
Very nice, sounds like a wild workshop or there are typos in your opening sentence :LittleDevil:

There are so many flammable liquids - paints and solvents in my garage that I would be wary of having a wood burner that might have to be left unattended.

When I fitted a wood burner in my shed perhaps 30 years ago, the Selkirk twin wall flue and cowl cost more than the wood burner!

Cheers
Andy
Title: Re: Retlas
Post by: Chipmaster on March 06, 2017, 08:50:29 PM
Sounds like you've got it nicely sorted out Jo.
Bring on the warmer weather  :whoohoo:
Andy
Title: Re: Retlas
Post by: Chipmaster on March 07, 2017, 07:24:05 PM
Hi Dave, a photo to show that I used a little of the heat shrink sleeve you sent to me. The sensor came from CPC Farnell, cost only £1.19 and it works. Although my soldering isn't neat at least it didn't destroy the sensor. Thanks for your help.

(https://c1.staticflickr.com/4/3909/32494928603_fd683d1f7f_b.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/Rvt1aH)P1060301 (2) (https://flic.kr/p/Rvt1aH) by Andy (https://www.flickr.com/photos/116764188@N08/), on Flickr

Andy
Title: Re: Retlas
Post by: Bluechip on March 07, 2017, 09:09:16 PM
Well done, that man ...  :ThumbsUp:        As Foggy Dewhurst might say ...  :D

And if you want any more shrink-tube just sing out ....

Not exactly short of it ...  :headscratch:

Dave

Title: Re: Retlasni
Post by: Chipmaster on March 09, 2017, 07:24:50 PM
Minimag sensor woes.
I ordered a replacement sensor from Minimag as soon as the original failed because I wanted to demonstrate the engine at the Birmingham Society of Model Engineers (BSME) stationary engine night 8th March. Testing the new sensor I ran the engine for about an hour before it failed, this time it stayed permanently switched on :censored:
Fortunately the cheap sensor recommended by Dave 'Bluechip' saved the day and the engine has run faultlessly for a few hours including its BSME debut last night.
I sent an email to Minimag asking for replacement sensors as theirs seem prone to failure but I haven't received a reply from them yet.
Have other Minimag users found their units reliable or prone to failure.
Andy
Title: Re: Retlas
Post by: Bluechip on March 09, 2017, 09:44:30 PM
Good to hear it's banging away  :ThumbsUp:  At least some thing is  :shrug:     ... I fell off a stepladder and crooked my right knee on Sunday and now have some sneezy / snotty-nose respiratory pestilence to boot... Does it ever end ...  :'(

I still wonder what the original device is/was.

The only item I can come up with which has any resemblance to '451' & 'Hall-Effect' is this:

http://uk.farnell.com/honeywell/ss451a/sensor-hall-effect-omnipolar-to/dp/1784738

Dunno ...  :headscratch:

Dave

Title: Re: Retlasni
Post by: michaelr on March 10, 2017, 01:27:19 PM
Minimag sensor woes.
I ordered a replacement sensor from Minimag as soon as the original failed because I wanted to demonstrate the engine at the Birmingham Society of Model Engineers (BSME) stationary engine night 8th March. Testing the new sensor I ran the engine for about an hour before it failed, this time it stayed permanently switched on :censored:
Fortunately the cheap sensor recommended by Dave 'Bluechip' saved the day and the engine has run faultlessly for a few hours including its BSME debut last night.
I sent an email to Minimag asking for replacement sensors as theirs seem prone to failure but I haven't received a reply from them yet.
Have other Minimag users found their units reliable or prone to failure.
Andy
I have Minimag ignition on my Hit and Miss engines, and on my Wyvern and Centaur engines the units have been fitted for a number of years without any problems, I am well satisfied with the units and their ease of fitting.

Mike.
Title: Re: Retlas
Post by: Chipmaster on March 10, 2017, 02:08:08 PM
Thanks Mike, guess I have just been unlucky. I received another sensor from Minimag this morning, free of charge which is good. They also enclosed a Hall-effect sensors survival guide (which I hadn't transgressed) attached below.

(https://c1.staticflickr.com/1/754/32544460053_49980988cb_b.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/RzQS9e)Hall Effect Sensor Survival Guide (https://flic.kr/p/RzQS9e) by Andy (https://www.flickr.com/photos/116764188@N08/), on Flickr

So using Dave's parlance I'll get on with some more banging over the weekend.... Sorry to hear you're crocked Dave.

Andy
Title: Re: Retlas
Post by: Alyn Foundry on April 18, 2017, 03:36:55 PM
Hi Andy.

As you know, the cat's out of the bag!!    ;)

The vertical Gardner oil engine is out on the rally scene, down under.

I actually held its original test paper at the Anson yesterday afternoon. This is the engine whose picture I have had for several years under strictest secrecy.

Geoff is trying to get the owner to upload the video to You Tube or, alternatively gain permission to use the Anson.

Now another has surfaced recently in Europe!! It's a shame, Dion never got to know......

Cheers Graham.
Title: Re: Retlas
Post by: Chipmaster on April 18, 2017, 04:11:35 PM
OK Graham, a magnificent engine running so regularly. I watched it several times, it left me wanting to see more detail with a wide screen setting, lets hope Geoff can persuade the owner to upload more videos of it to YouTube
 
I copied the video on to my Flickr album where I store all my Retlas pictures.

Click on this picture / link below which will take you to my Flickr album then click on the image of the engine and the video should start playing.

(https://c1.staticflickr.com/3/2944/33731693690_37c5220ebd_z.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/ToKKkG)Vertical Gardner (https://flic.kr/p/ToKKkG) by Andy (https://www.flickr.com/photos/116764188@N08/), on Flickr

When was the engine manufactured and are you able to upload your picture(s) of the engine?

Regards
Andy
Title: Re: Retlas
Post by: Alyn Foundry on April 18, 2017, 05:27:15 PM
Hi Andy.

That's a great way to share....

The picture I had has become an enigma..... Probably lost along the many hard drive transfers from one PC upgrade to the next!

I'll ask Geoff to send me a copy of the test report, Gardner were most particular in this area.

Looking at the video I'm amazed at how close Vincent got with the replica, considering the size of picture he had being little more than a large postage stamp!!

Kind regards, Graham.
Title: Re: Retlas
Post by: Chipmaster on April 18, 2017, 06:51:00 PM
Hi Graham, yes a very easy way to share, Flckr seems much easier than photobucket.
As you say the similarity acheived between the Retlas and the original Gardner is remarkable given the size of the image that inspired the model.
Andy
Title: Re: Retlas
Post by: Chipmaster on May 30, 2017, 09:08:45 PM
The Gardner Vertical Engine that the Retlas is based on had a cast iron guard around the timing gears so in between adding coats of paint to the model I made a guard by soldering some mild steel together....

(https://c1.staticflickr.com/6/5633/30332171726_5a8d0e2435_z.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/NdmiU3)Gardner Vertical001 (https://flic.kr/p/NdmiU3) by Andy (https://www.flickr.com/photos/116764188@N08/), on Flickr

(https://c1.staticflickr.com/5/4225/34154025764_3396f59243_z.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/U35iXb)Building Retlas 872 (https://flic.kr/p/U35iXb) by Andy (https://www.flickr.com/photos/116764188@N08/), on Flickr

(https://c1.staticflickr.com/5/4199/34186367253_dba8f89ca8_z.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/U5W4X4)Building Retlas 868 (https://flic.kr/p/U5W4X4) by Andy (https://www.flickr.com/photos/116764188@N08/), on Flickr

Andy
Title: Re: Retlas
Post by: Dave Otto on May 31, 2017, 12:54:00 AM
That looks great Andy!


Dave
Title: Re: Retlas
Post by: Flyboy Jim on May 31, 2017, 02:59:15 AM
Wow.........that guard came out great!  :ThumbsUp:

Jim
Title: Re: Retlas
Post by: Chipmaster on May 31, 2017, 10:18:37 PM
Thanks Dave and Jim. It took me about two hours to make it but worth the effort to make the engine safer and look better.
Andy
Title: Re: Retlas
Post by: Chipmaster on June 17, 2017, 12:05:19 PM
I have been painting Retlas for a few weeks on and off priming, filling, undercoat and the first gloss coat last night. Here are pictures of the larger parts sunbathing in our garden this morning. Despite taking care covering up the paint job in my cardboard box spray booth some dust settled on the paint.  :(
I'm not allowed to put stuff like this on our garden table so a couple of weeks ago I made my own table using an old gate.

(https://c1.staticflickr.com/5/4276/34548902543_3723c8b620_z.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/UCYa4v)Building Retlas 877 (https://flic.kr/p/UCYa4v) by Andy (https://www.flickr.com/photos/116764188@N08/), on Flickr

(https://c1.staticflickr.com/5/4237/34548910993_ba1e322a67_z.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/UCYczc)Building Retlas 875 (https://flic.kr/p/UCYczc) by Andy (https://www.flickr.com/photos/116764188@N08/), on Flickr

(https://c1.staticflickr.com/5/4284/35319353576_6793d188ec_z.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/VP3Vj1)Building Retlas 873 (https://flic.kr/p/VP3Vj1) by Andy (https://www.flickr.com/photos/116764188@N08/), on Flickr

The paint is Craftmaster graphite grey.

Andy
Title: Re: Retlas
Post by: Chipmaster on July 17, 2017, 06:47:55 PM
My progress with the task of painting the Retlas has been very slow and regularly interrupted by gardening, allotment and house maintenance.
I've experienced just about every fault possible with the paintwork. The worst problem has been dust. I used polycarbonate garden cloches to keep dust out, they were cheap and pretty effective. I've kept masking tape on the flywheel rim to protect it in case you think it looks bad.

 (https://farm5.staticflickr.com/4294/35815593352_24b0770734_z.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/WyUh7d)P1060674 (https://flic.kr/p/WyUh7d) by Andy (https://www.flickr.com/photos/116764188@N08/), on Flickr

(https://farm5.staticflickr.com/4309/35815594612_3a0434de02_z.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/WyUhtW)P1060680 (2) (https://flic.kr/p/WyUhtW) by Andy (https://www.flickr.com/photos/116764188@N08/), on Flickr

(https://farm5.staticflickr.com/4315/35815590692_c405ec0c4c_z.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/WyUgjm)P1060681 (2) (https://flic.kr/p/WyUgjm) by Andy (https://www.flickr.com/photos/116764188@N08/), on Flickr

(https://farm5.staticflickr.com/4299/35944708346_26652c4395_z.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/WLj2uN)P1060684 (https://flic.kr/p/WLj2uN) by Andy (https://www.flickr.com/photos/116764188@N08/), on Flickr


Andy
Title: Re: Retlas
Post by: Alyn Foundry on August 11, 2017, 01:44:18 PM
Hello All.

It is with deepest sadness I have to announce the sudden passing of Vincent Salter.

A friend of nigh on 40 years.

This thread and his creation will be his testimony. Goodbye dear friend.

Kind regards, Graham.
Title: Re: Retlas
Post by: Quadra on August 11, 2017, 02:05:51 PM
Sad to hear of his passing.

His 'Retlas' was fun to build and will be part of his legacy.

John
Title: Re: Retlas
Post by: Chipmaster on August 17, 2017, 08:40:02 PM
Graham - sorry to hear that you've lost a friend of 40 years. Perhaps one day if you are able could you tell the story of the Retlas, how it  was conceived and developed, how many Retlasses are there and how were they finished? I'd like to hear from other Retlas builders like Quadra how their Retlas turned out, accompanied with pictures if possible.

I have started reassembling my Retlas after the paint job. Here are some photos taken this evening of the engine sitting on a temporary mount. Four iron wheels are being cast this week to make up a steerable trolley for the engine.

Off to the Bristol Model Engineering Show tomorrow, any other Model Engine Makers going?

Andy

(https://farm5.staticflickr.com/4331/35799910484_d6055d4575_z.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/WxvU8W)Building Retlas 920 (https://flic.kr/p/WxvU8W) by Andy (https://www.flickr.com/photos/116764188@N08/), on Flickr

(https://farm5.staticflickr.com/4421/36587899646_4eb5520be6_z.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/XK9xRY)Building Retlas 921 (https://flic.kr/p/XK9xRY) by Andy (https://www.flickr.com/photos/116764188@N08/), on Flickr

(https://farm5.staticflickr.com/4433/35799910964_b26c6914a3_z.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/WxvUhd)Building Retlas 922 (https://flic.kr/p/WxvUhd) by Andy (https://www.flickr.com/photos/116764188@N08/), on Flickr

(https://farm5.staticflickr.com/4409/36465489362_fec59ebee8_z.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/XykaxQ)Building Retlas 923 (https://flic.kr/p/XykaxQ) by Andy (https://www.flickr.com/photos/116764188@N08/), on Flickr

(https://farm5.staticflickr.com/4364/36465489692_be2ee937a5_z.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/XykaDw)Building Retlas 924 (https://flic.kr/p/XykaDw) by Andy (https://www.flickr.com/photos/116764188@N08/), on Flickr

(https://farm5.staticflickr.com/4403/36465489152_59b93406e0_z.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/Xykaud)Building Retlas 926 (https://flic.kr/p/Xykaud) by Andy (https://www.flickr.com/photos/116764188@N08/), on Flickr

(https://farm5.staticflickr.com/4382/36587898546_aae3c91ee2_z.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/XK9xx1)Building Retlas 928 (https://flic.kr/p/XK9xx1) by Andy (https://www.flickr.com/photos/116764188@N08/), on Flickr
Title: Re: Retlas
Post by: Ye-Ole Steam Dude on August 17, 2017, 09:45:38 PM

Wow, the paint job is beautiful, just perfect on this engine.

Thomas
Title: Re: Retlas
Post by: Dave Otto on August 18, 2017, 12:51:20 AM
Beautiful Paint job Andy! There was a picture a while back where it looked almost blue, I think it was the table and outdoor setting that made the color appear different. I like the lighter color in the crank case area, it adds some nice detail.

Dave
Title: Re: Retlas
Post by: Jo on August 18, 2017, 06:35:23 AM
That is looking really good  :)

Off to the Bristol Model Engineering Show tomorrow, any other Model Engine Makers going?

Andy

 :disappointed: I was hoping to be well enough to travel to the show but Surus's escape route is still giving me jip, especially if I dare go out in a car  :wallbang:

Jo
Title: Re: Retlas
Post by: Chipmaster on August 18, 2017, 07:38:21 AM
Thanks for the compliments. I also thought the engine looked a shade of blue in those earlier photos of it taken on a table outside on a sunny day. It is the same 'graphite grey' paint, the colour of the inside of the cylinder yoke is ivory.
I'll take plenty of pictures of engines at the Bristol show today and add them to MEM as soon as I can.
Andy
Title: Re: Retlas
Post by: fumopuc on August 18, 2017, 10:40:49 AM
Hi Andy, this engine is a reall eye-catcher. Very nice done.
Title: Re: Retlas
Post by: Chipmaster on August 31, 2017, 08:58:20 AM
As I machined my cast iron wheels a lot of blowholes were revealed. :cussing:
The foundry blamed the iron and are casting them again.
Andy
Title: Re: Retlas
Post by: Alyn Foundry on September 01, 2017, 05:54:35 PM
Good evening Andy.

Hmmm.... The term " Swiss cheese " springs to mind!!

I have a gift for you.... See attached.

We have been clearing Vincent's workshop, which is headed for the Anson engine museum. I'll post some photos of his last projects soon.

Geoff is going to set up a memorial plaque with pictures and engines that Vincent built. There were quite a few!

Kind regards, Graham.
Title: Re: Retlas
Post by: Chipmaster on September 01, 2017, 10:12:50 PM
Good evening Graham, good to hear from you. I think that's the base of a Retlas / Manchester type dynamo, excellent.
Did you  see the email I sent  featuring an Alyn Foundry Gardner 0 Type sold by Cheffins in their auction on July 15th ? It appeared to be the engine built by Mr Senior that you mentioned a little while ago in this thread.
Regards
Andy
Title: Re: Retlas
Post by: scalemodel on September 02, 2017, 09:21:24 AM
Good morning
 
I don't wish to hijack andys thread on his very nice retlas but I've just read about the sad passing of vincent salter.
I liked vince alot and used to talk to him alot at the steam rallies etc he used to attend and once went to his home when a frind of mine brought a full size engine off him.
As time went on it got harder to talk to him with his hearing but he was always willing to help.
I was only thinking about him the other day as I thought I would see him at Malpas next wekend.

I think the last time I saw him he had just built a model of a petter 2 stroke don't no if he got it running.
I for one would love to see some pictures of the engines he made, the Crossley being one of the best

Jonathan
Title: Re: Retlas
Post by: Chipmaster on September 17, 2017, 07:24:31 PM
I want to make a trolley for the Retlas so I decided I should sort out the wheels out first. Finding suitable wheels was quite a difficult and time consuming task, eventually I bought a single cast iron wheel on eBay to use as the pattern and the foundry quoted £10 per wheel.
A friend also wanted four wheels, so I had eight cast initially. I ended up working my way through sixteen wheel castings - two batches of eight finding numerous holes as I machined the rims until I could select the best four castings, they still have pinholes in the rims but I can put up with that because I intend to stick a thin rubber strip to the rim like a tyre. However, my friend didn't want to do that.
The foundry accepted that the castings were unsatisfactory and refunded our money, I did pay for the four I would use and I still have a box of rejects.

The wheels are five inches diameter and the tread is 1.2" wide and I've bored the hubs to fit 1/2" axles.

The first pictures is a box of rejects followed by the four I will use, these castings have been cleaned up by filing and using carbide burrs in a Dremel.

Andy


 
Title: Re: Retlas
Post by: Jasonb on September 17, 2017, 07:57:58 PM
I suppose the rejects could always have the rim machined off and then you could fit the spokes into a bit of 5" ERW tube if bright rims were wanted. Can't see it matters that much as the first time you drag the cart over a concrete or stone surface the finish will get all roughed up.
Title: Re: Retlas
Post by: Chipmaster on September 18, 2017, 10:03:41 AM
Hi Jason, know what you mean about the rims getting roughed up. I did what I thought was a great paint job painting the wheels on my Economy engine trolley and took it along to a club meeting. After rolling it along tarmac the rims looked terrible with red primer showing through.
Roughed up rims looked ok on full size stationary engines that I used to have but I can't acheive that appearance scaled down. An 'as cast' finish would have suited me if the rims had been even and concentric but that wasn't an option the way these castings came out of the moulds.
Andy
Title: Re: Retlas
Post by: Chipmaster on February 14, 2018, 07:16:31 PM
I have returned to reassembling my Retlas engine after its paint job having spent the last few months working on a new kitchen and model Robinson Hot Air engine.
I'm carefully fitting and making new parts doing away with several shims and washers used to jury rig the engine to get it running for the first time about a year ago. Fitting the fabricated gear guard over the assembled gears and eccentrics was difficult but I managed to do it without damaging the paint.
New push rods are made of nickel silver also known as German Silver. I'm following the example of a friend who used the alloy for parts of his engine, it polishes up to a high finish and seems to stay shiny for a long time.

(https://farm5.staticflickr.com/4664/38457878250_483246c1f6_z.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/21AoFmo)Building Retlas 932 (https://flic.kr/p/21AoFmo) by Andy (https://www.flickr.com/photos/116764188@N08/), on Flickr

(https://farm5.staticflickr.com/4756/40267811081_26631fb1a5_z.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/24mk4jR)Building Retlas 933 (https://flic.kr/p/24mk4jR) by Andy (https://www.flickr.com/photos/116764188@N08/), on Flickr

Andy
Title: Re: Retlas
Post by: Chipmaster on August 24, 2018, 08:30:50 PM
Still making slow progress with Retlas. I have tidied up the valve gear and almost finished a trolley. Haven't worked out how to hide the hall effect sensor, may have to hide it behind a pulley on the timing side of the engine.

Andy

(https://farm2.staticflickr.com/1895/42434953540_92614cbea6_z.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/27DQeh1)Building Retlas 935b (https://flic.kr/p/27DQeh1) by Andy (https://www.flickr.com/photos/116764188@N08/), on Flickr

(https://farm2.staticflickr.com/1890/29307004547_e21e2fa5f5_z.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/LDL4pR)Building Retlas 939 (https://flic.kr/p/LDL4pR) by Andy (https://www.flickr.com/photos/116764188@N08/), on Flickr

(https://farm2.staticflickr.com/1837/29307003187_919486598b_z.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/LDL41p)Building Retlas 946 (https://flic.kr/p/LDL41p) by Andy (https://www.flickr.com/photos/116764188@N08/), on Flickr

(https://farm2.staticflickr.com/1870/44194029492_67f1dddbed_z.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/2akgXgJ)Building Retlas 973 (https://flic.kr/p/2akgXgJ) by Andy (https://www.flickr.com/photos/116764188@N08/), on Flickr

(https://farm2.staticflickr.com/1843/30375729728_b14635a39e_z.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/Nhcyb5)Building Retlas 981 (https://flic.kr/p/Nhcyb5) by Andy (https://www.flickr.com/photos/116764188@N08/), on Flickr


Title: Re: Retlas
Post by: Jo on August 24, 2018, 08:47:04 PM
It is coming on nicely Andy  :)

I see you also have a casting shopping trolley  ::) 

Jo
Title: Re: Retlas
Post by: Chipmaster on August 24, 2018, 09:07:21 PM
Yes Jo, I think you might make out three shopping trolleys in those pictures if you include an old Black and Decker cart with a useless floppy handle design.
Has an Allman inlet valve casting jumped from one box to another?
Andy
Title: Re: Retlas
Post by: Jo on August 25, 2018, 06:25:32 AM
I acquired one of those folding handle trolleys and find it useful for putting in the back of the car for moving models around at shows  :)

Has an Allman inlet valve casting jumped from one box to another?

Yes and there is no signs of us getting it soon  :'(

Jo
Title: Re: Retlas
Post by: Jasonb on August 25, 2018, 06:58:06 AM
Don't worry Jo, I've got the dogs to pee on it and will leave it outside so it has that nice patina that you like so much by the time I give it to you ;)
Title: Re: Retlas
Post by: Alyn Foundry on August 25, 2018, 11:37:35 AM
What a superb job Andy, well done.

Your gas supply line looks perfect.

I'm guessing the water tank support is the next headache? Now, with regard to a pulley. Most Gardner engines were single flywheel with the drive pulley fitted on the other side. I noticed you have fitted yours next to the flywheel. This might just hide your ignition timing sensor?

You might be interested to know that Vincent's original Retlas has been rebuilt by one of the Anson engine museum volunteers recently. Peter has successfully got it to run on hot tube! Sadly the damage the engine sustained caused by Vincent's burglary sees a bent crankshaft and a rather wobbly flywheel. More to be done as far as I'm concerned.

Cheers Graham.
Title: Re: Retlas
Post by: Chipmaster on August 28, 2018, 08:57:17 PM
Graham, how sad that the original Retlas suffered such damage, do you have any pictures of the engine?

I may make a second pulley for the timing side to hide the sensor simply to avoid stripping the engine down in order to drill and thread appropriate holes in the base.

Perhaps hot tube ignition is the way to go, eventually, if I obtained the chimney and gas ring castings.

Andy
Title: Re: Retlas
Post by: Alyn Foundry on August 29, 2018, 11:38:20 AM
Hi Andy.

I made an extensive search on YouTube but found nothing video related, other than your own.

I'm not sure if I've got any spare castings for the chimney and burner, definitely no tops!

I have to say that I was most surprised that Peter had managed to successfully run the engine via hot tube as we had spent many hours tinkering in the past. We found preignition was the main problem due to the higher compression ratio of the Retlas. Maybe Peter " dropped lucky " on the internal diameter?

Cheers Graham.
Title: Re: Retlas
Post by: Chipmaster on September 01, 2018, 06:40:34 PM
Hi Graham,

It looks as though Tony Harcomb also fitted a hot tube and chimney to his Retlas. This picture was in one of your early posts to this build thread January 13th 2016.

Andy
Title: Re: Retlas
Post by: Alyn Foundry on September 02, 2018, 11:16:15 AM
Good morning Andy.

I now make a habit of checking the sub categories these days, your post had already vanished!

From the picture, yes it would appear so but look closely at the gas supply pipe running horizontally. I'm pretty sure I can see a HT lead. And I can't see any joint in that gas line for teeing off to the burner assembly either.

What's nice is that Tony has fitted one of our aftermarket exhaust bottles. Although they were originally designed to sit on the floor.

Last year I passed on the pattern and corebox for the bottle casting to Geoff at the Anson. He sent them on to the foundry that's been making the museum kits. Without thinking he asked them for a few from the pattern.
Imagine the shock when they had had several " miss runs " to ask a price of £90.00 each! Sadly the museum is now " stuck " with them as they are grossly overpriced.

Cheers Graham.
Title: Re: Retlas
Post by: Jasonb on September 02, 2018, 01:25:50 PM
Graham, if you click "show unread posts since last visit" that should be next to your avitar top left you will get a list of all posts since you last visited so no excuse for missing anything.

J
Title: Re: Retlas
Post by: Chipmaster on September 08, 2018, 09:19:35 PM
To mount the Hall Effect Sensor I have copied Jason's idea that he posted in a thread in January this year.
I filed a small piece of brass to accept the trapezoid shape of the sensor then soldered it to a brass ring that is clamped around one of the main bearings. The steel rod with the knurled brass knob can release the clamp for adjustment of the ignition timing, after the correct timing of the engine is established I'll probably substitute a short cap head Allen bolt. The associated neodymium magnet is fitted in the brass disc that is behind the flywheel.

Andy
Title: Re: Retlas
Post by: Jasonb on September 09, 2018, 07:07:26 AM
Timing bracket looks good, just need some braided sleeving to hide those three modern wires now.
Title: Re: Retlas
Post by: Jo on September 09, 2018, 08:22:22 AM
I'll probably substitute a short cap head Allen bolt.

Would a stud and nut look more in keeping with the engine  :thinking:

A bit of black heat shrink over those wires is another way that would hide them  :)

Jo
Title: Re: Retlas
Post by: Chipmaster on September 09, 2018, 09:15:25 AM
Yes Jo you’re right, a stud and nut will be in keeping with the engine, I wasn’t thinking  :Doh:
The covering and route for the wires is still being considered.
Andy
Title: Re: Retlas
Post by: Jasonb on September 09, 2018, 01:39:34 PM
Nice slotted screw with a slightly domed top would also look the part and be easy to access should you want to make adjustments.

You could also run the wires inside a bit of brass tube with just the end exposed to allow for adjustments
Title: Re: Retlas
Post by: Chipmaster on October 23, 2018, 08:48:46 PM
I made a wooden box to support the cooling tank and contain the Minimag ignition system. The brass cooling tank was painted to avoid having to keep it polished. No firm plans for the exhaust system yet, whether to have a simple pepper pot style silencer on the end of a short stubby pipe or route a longer pipe down beneath the engine.  :thinking:

Andy

 
(https://farm2.staticflickr.com/1948/44611083835_b656a135b3_c.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/2aY8sZR)P1080484 - Copy (https://flic.kr/p/2aY8sZR) by Andy (https://www.flickr.com/photos/116764188@N08/), on Flickr

(https://farm2.staticflickr.com/1961/43707652710_8720c11c00_c.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/29Ai9p9)P1080488 - Copy (https://flic.kr/p/29Ai9p9) by Andy (https://www.flickr.com/photos/116764188@N08/), on Flickr

(https://farm2.staticflickr.com/1955/43707682920_2526bd6295_c.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/29Aiio1)P1080498 - Copy (https://flic.kr/p/29Aiio1) by Andy (https://www.flickr.com/photos/116764188@N08/), on Flickr

Title: Re: Retlas
Post by: Roger B on November 03, 2018, 07:21:34 AM
Looking good  :praise2:  :praise2: My only thought on the exhaust would be to keep it away from the wood work and paint to avoid oil and soot.
Title: Re: Retlas
Post by: Alyn Foundry on November 03, 2018, 11:29:58 AM
Good morning Andy.

Yet another missed thread, the engine and ancillaries are looking beautiful, well done!

The Retlas was loosely based upon the Size 1 vertical gas engine. They would have used the same exhaust bottle as was fitted to our size " 0 "  because the " 0 " appeared much later after the " 1 " did. I know Geoff had some cast recently but he's still reeling from the bill they hit him with!! They had so much trouble in getting sound castings they charged him £90.00 each!! :o

You might like to think about the air filter/muffler ? This part was unique, in style to the Gardner range. It would have to be made a little bigger for the Retlas however. Oh, and I cheated a little with the " 0 " by just using some Steel tube, the original outer case was actually made from sheet, rolled into a tube and riveted together.

The whole is a real credit to you Andy!

Cheers Graham.
Title: Re: Retlas
Post by: Chipmaster on November 03, 2018, 08:54:29 PM
Hi Graham - thanks, almost there.

Strewth, £90.00 for a small exhaust bottle makes the Robinson HA platform castings sound cheap as chips. Mike C and I borrowed your patterns and had a small batch cast by the AJD Foundry and they cost about £20 each. I only wanted one but it's size isn't in proportion with the Retlas. I have used it with the engine and it is very effective.
Here are a few pictures of it.
(https://farm5.staticflickr.com/4908/44975867444_3599885d3f_c.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/2bwn5sq)Silencer (1) (https://flic.kr/p/2bwn5sq) by Andy (https://www.flickr.com/photos/116764188@N08/), on Flickr
(https://farm2.staticflickr.com/1964/45700895511_0872798c5f_c.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/2cCr33k)Silencer (2) (https://flic.kr/p/2cCr33k) by Andy (https://www.flickr.com/photos/116764188@N08/), on Flickr
(https://farm5.staticflickr.com/4905/44975767364_ffa6537d22_c.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/2bwmyGU)Exhaust bottle 8 (https://flic.kr/p/2bwmyGU) by Andy (https://www.flickr.com/photos/116764188@N08/), on Flickr
(https://farm2.staticflickr.com/1932/45700815391_1d53daa1e5_c.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/2cCqCdX)Exhaust bottle 7 (https://flic.kr/p/2cCqCdX) by Andy (https://www.flickr.com/photos/116764188@N08/), on Flickr
(https://farm2.staticflickr.com/1917/45700815841_0bd28d6fb3_c.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/2cCqCmH)Exhaust bottle 1 (https://flic.kr/p/2cCqCmH) by Andy (https://www.flickr.com/photos/116764188@N08/), on Flickr

I think I'll fabricate an exhaust bottle as I did for my Gardner O Type years ago.

(https://farm1.staticflickr.com/298/19287387265_c56bc19cf0_c.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/vomUgK)My Gardner O Type [6] (https://flic.kr/p/vomUgK) by Andy (https://www.flickr.com/photos/116764188@N08/), on Flickr

I agree with you about the air filter / muffler, I'll make one following the style in your plans for the O type.
(https://farm2.staticflickr.com/1927/45702880811_7ec34dd984.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/2cCBdcD)My Gardner O Type [1] (https://flic.kr/p/2cCBdcD) by Andy (https://www.flickr.com/photos/116764188@N08/), on Flickr

Andy

Title: Re: Retlas
Post by: Chipmaster on November 03, 2018, 09:06:06 PM
Hi Roger, I agree, the exhaust should be aimed away from the wood. I'll try a vertical outlet first and if it's a messy exhaust turn it to horizontal, pointing away from me - poor spectators  :mischief:

Andy
Title: Re: Retlas
Post by: Chipmaster on November 13, 2018, 08:20:44 PM
i made an air filter / muffler in the Gardner 0 type style this afternoon by boring out a piece of stainless steel and pressing in stepped brass ends.

 Andy
Title: Re: Retlas
Post by: Ye-Ole Steam Dude on November 13, 2018, 09:12:54 PM
Hello Andy,

That is beautiful and just adds a touch more to an already beautiful engine.

Have a great day,
Thomas
Title: Re: Retlas
Post by: Chipmaster on November 14, 2018, 10:29:19 AM
Hello Thomas,
that was another finishing touch, thanks for the compliment, I hope to have the engine running again very soon.
Now I’m looking for clips to fasten the tubes to and from the water tank.
The tube is 5/8” ~ 16mm od. The commercial worm drive or Jubilee hose clips available look wrong because the bands are too wide.
Thinking of my BSA and Triumph motor bikes about 50 years ago, I think  the clips used on the oil tank hoses were slender and might look right but they’ don’t  appear to be made today...perhaps because they allowed oil leaks.
Andy
Title: Re: Retlas
Post by: michaelr on November 14, 2018, 11:08:42 AM
What about O clips they start about 6mm band width, but I would think the band width could be reduced to suit your requirement's.
https://docs-emea.rs-online.com/webdocs/151b/0900766b8151b32d.pdf (https://docs-emea.rs-online.com/webdocs/151b/0900766b8151b32d.pdf)


Michaelr
Title: Re: Retlas
Post by: Chipmaster on November 14, 2018, 11:46:53 AM
Thanks Mike, those O clips look far better so I’ll try them.

Andy
Title: Re: Retlas
Post by: Jasonb on November 14, 2018, 03:51:50 PM
These the type of thing you had previously? At least they can be easily removed unlike the gas hose ones.

https://www.retrofordinternational.com/fuel-pipe-clips-x5-6372-p.asp

https://www.japgmowers.co.uk/fuel-pipe-hose-clamp-clips-x-2-briggs--stratton-quantum-intek-dov-mower-engines-part-710075-691038-691629-93807-13429-p.asp
Title: Re: Retlas
Post by: Chipmaster on November 26, 2018, 12:28:39 PM
The Retlas has needed quite a lot of adjustments to the governor, valves, gas system and ignition to get it to slow   down and run without bouncing around. I have got it running reasonably slowly as can be seen in this video that I made yesterday afternoon. By the end of this video the engine was no longer clamped to the workbench and it sat still but there's still a way to go to get it 'right'.

AOwEeatda5ot=1s

The Retlas can be violent, after all at about 120 cc it's a large model and in its present state it is best attached to something immovable like my workbench for these trials otherwise the governor arm swings about wildly, so much so that the counterweight becomes superfluous. I have considered whether it would be possible to dampen its movement.

I have thought about whether the engine could be pacified by reducing the air intake diameter. Does anyone have  any experience of the effect of altering the air intake on a hit and miss engine?

The whining of the timing gear is a bit too loud. When I built the engine I made an eccentric shaft for the half time gear copying the Gardner 0 type method for adjusting backlash. I find the whine stays the same no matter what adjustment I make - tight or loose. The shafts are also spot on parallel. I know straight cut gears are usually noisy but.....perhaps these gears from HPC just aren’t a ‘good’ meshing pair. Once I’ve got the engine running nicely I might look into getting a pair of helical gears that might solve the problem. I have also tried reversing the pinion on the crankshaft and reducing the engagement by moving the pinion outwards along the crankshaft but the whine stays put. I attach a picture of the gears, there is a lot of backlash with this setting.

To be continued....
Andy

Title: Re: Retlas
Post by: Jo on November 26, 2018, 12:44:27 PM
 :thinking: The mesh on those gears seem a bit wide Andy. Is the adjuster eccentric bushes that would allow the two shafts to be closer together.

Jo
Title: Re: Retlas
Post by: Chipmaster on November 26, 2018, 12:48:58 PM
Hi Jo,
the half time gear is indeed mounted on an eccentric shaft as I described in the post. The whine is present with a tight engagement as well.

Andy
Title: Re: Retlas
Post by: Jasonb on November 26, 2018, 01:17:59 PM
It almost sounds like the gears are under a lot more load that they should be. How easily does it free wheel with one of the valves held open so there is no compression as it does seem to loose speed quite quickly after a hit.
Title: Re: Retlas
Post by: Chipmaster on November 26, 2018, 01:49:01 PM
Hi Jason, I’ll check that later this afternoon and report back.
 I thought it was free when I assembled the timing gear, the timing gears have whined from the outset. It sounds the same in videos made last year before I took it apart for painting.
Andy
Title: Re: Retlas
Post by: Jasonb on November 26, 2018, 02:05:55 PM
Another thing to check is that the gears are running concentrically, if the bore in one is a bit off maybe where the stock gear has been altered then it will be going in and out of mesh as it goes round and that can also give a whining. It's a bit hard to see if that is happening on the video due to the rods and eccentric but should be easy enough to check when turning over by hand.
Title: Re: Retlas
Post by: Alyn Foundry on November 26, 2018, 02:40:24 PM
Hi Andy.

The Retlas is now running quite nicely as far as I'm concerned.

The gears, I wonder if HPC would have any ideas about the whining noise if you were to ask them?

As Jason points out the noise is like a " tight " drive or heavy loading upon them.

Cheers Graham.
Title: Re: Retlas
Post by: Chipmaster on November 26, 2018, 06:29:59 PM
Good evening Jason, Graham, Jo, et al.
Here's a link to a video of my timing gears that I've just uploaded on YouTube. I don't think they're subject to a load that would make them whine. The grey deposits are molybdenum disulphide stuff that I added to the lubrication thinking it would help - not ground up gear teeth.

jZIz97gpzZ4
RSVP

Andy
Title: Re: Retlas
Post by: Jasonb on November 26, 2018, 06:51:41 PM
1 they look to have far too much backlash.

2. If you look at the gap between the guard and gear at about the 8 o'clock position you can see it starts off a lot more that at about 11 secs in which suggests the gear is not true.
Title: Re: Retlas
Post by: Alyn Foundry on November 26, 2018, 07:04:48 PM
Hi Andy.

Here it is....

http://www.modelenginemaker.com/index.php/topic,5720.msg124050.html#msg124050

I built this one for a customer around 25 years ago, so long ago I can't remember what gears I used. They are about 1/4" to 5/16" wide, might have been from a JAP ( J A Prestwich ) engine.

Cheers Graham.
Title: Re: Retlas
Post by: RayW on November 26, 2018, 07:43:11 PM
Could it mean that the large gear is bored slightly off-centre resulting in the meshing varying as it revolves?

Ray
Title: Re: Retlas
Post by: Chipmaster on November 26, 2018, 07:44:08 PM
Hi Jason, you're going forensic and I'm not following you or perhaps I'm just not seeing enough detail in those stills from the video. As the half time gear is on an eccentric shaft which is not concentric with the gear guard I would expect the clearance between the gear and guard to vary around the circumference of the static gear. However, are you  looking at a fixed point of the guard and seeing the clearance vary as the gear rotates? If so then yes that is evidence that the gear isn't true.. It will be annoying if the gear isn't true.

I'll take the gear off tomorrow and do some some measuring. 

Andy
Title: Re: Retlas
Post by: Alyn Foundry on November 26, 2018, 07:44:32 PM
I think Jason might have spotted the problem.

Do you have a set of " Soft " jaws for your lathe? I'd suggest creating a bore to suit the OD of the half time gear and then " clock " the hole. You could then bore and bush the gear to make it concentric again.

Cheers Graham.
Title: Re: Retlas
Post by: Jasonb on November 26, 2018, 07:51:19 PM
The gear should rotate concentrically on a shaft that is eccentric to it's mounting hole, that way you can rotate the shaft which varies the mesh (backlash) of the gears.

I'll did out some drawings to show you what I mean.
Title: Re: Retlas
Post by: Chipmaster on November 26, 2018, 07:52:34 PM
Ok
Thanks Jason, Graham and Ray.
I'll examine the gear tomorrow, it's too cold to work in my garage tonight.
I haven't got soft jaws for my lathe but I reckon I could sleeve the gear and set it up accurately in order to machine a true bore.

Andy
Title: Re: Retlas
Post by: Chipmaster on November 26, 2018, 08:00:46 PM
Hi Jason, there has been a little flurry of posts crossing in the ethers over this.
I understand what your're saying about the half time gear should still be concentric with the shaft on which it rotates I intended rotation of the eccentric shaft to be the means of adjusting backlash at the outset.
Thanks for your continuing help.

Andy
Title: Re: Retlas
Post by: Jasonb on November 26, 2018, 08:03:34 PM
Yes that's as it should be but those couple of screen shots show that the gap between gear cover and gear is not constant which suggests the gear is running out of true.

I just did this video anyway which is good for showing how the eccentric lets the gear mesh be adjusted, in this case completely taking the gear out of mesh to stop the drive to a pump jack.

FMVWd20botk
Title: Re: Retlas
Post by: Chipmaster on November 26, 2018, 08:10:06 PM
Ok Jason, I’ve just viewed your earlier post on my ipad and magnified the images so I can now see your point.
Thanks
Andy
Title: Re: Retlas
Post by: Chipmaster on November 28, 2018, 07:08:54 PM
There is run out on the Retlas half time gear., perhaps as much as 15 thou according to a plunger dial test indicator against the revolving gear teeth. Unfortunately after testing for barely a minute we had a power cut yesterday afternoon that lasted until 9pm preventing all model engineering activity. Had domestic commitments today but will dismantle the timing gears tomorrow to see whether I can salvage them or simply replace.
Andy
Title: Re: Retlas
Post by: Alyn Foundry on November 28, 2018, 07:35:50 PM
Hi Andy.

Fifteen thou is a lot! That would, most certainly account for the noise.

In the absence of " soft jaws " ....

Perhaps a jig could be made by placing a piece of billet at oversize to the gear, boring it out to the gears OD and use a screw to secure it so the bore can be oversized and bushed?

Cheers Graham.
Title: Re: Retlas
Post by: Jasonb on November 28, 2018, 07:43:00 PM
60 T gear could be held in a 4 jaw on every 15th tooth.and clock the tips of the teeth.
Title: Re: Retlas
Post by: Chipmaster on November 29, 2018, 06:24:31 PM
I dismantled the timing gears and measured them this afternoon. The carefully measured run out of the 60 tooth gear was 0.0045” (4.5 thou) and 0.0005” for the 30 tooth gear, much less than I previously thought. It seemed worth making a replacement ‘eccentric’ axle for the 60 tooth half time gear with a greater throw to bring the gears much closer together.
After putting the engine back together with the new axle the whine had disappeared at cranking speed.  :cartwheel:
It’s our club meeting (Black Country Live Steamers) tonight so I haven’t time to fire the engine up this evening, hopefully will get it running quietly tomorrow.
Andy
Title: Re: Retlas
Post by: Chipmaster on November 30, 2018, 07:45:48 PM
Retlas running with the whine from the timing gears almost eliminated so the problem was caused by excessive backlash.

pjS6hJ5kfjY
The gas supply and ignition are still jury rigged...and the white silicone hoses are temporary until black tubing is delivered.

Andy
Title: Re: Retlas
Post by: Jo on November 30, 2018, 08:06:46 PM
Nice  :)


At this point I feel the need to remind the members about the dangers of running engines in an enclosed workshop space  :slap: the Carbon monoxide given out by an IC engine can prove a killer. I know of at least one model engineer who died that way  :(

Jo
Title: Re: Retlas
Post by: Jasonb on November 30, 2018, 08:11:48 PM
That sounds so much better Andy, no risk of anyone thinking there is an air raid due
Title: Re: Retlas
Post by: Alyn Foundry on November 30, 2018, 08:21:14 PM



    :)   SUPERB    :)
Title: Re: Retlas
Post by: yogi on November 30, 2018, 08:27:00 PM
Beautiful running engine Andy!  :ThumbsUp: :ThumbsUp: :ThumbsUp:
Title: Re: Retlas
Post by: Chipmaster on November 30, 2018, 08:28:16 PM
I feel the need to point out that I have a carbon monoxide alarm in my garage. The garage also has a side door which is left open for these test runs and the engine exhaust is fitted with a long metallic flexible exhaust tubing directed out the door. The tubing is made locally in Redditch by Whitehouse Flexible Tubing which other readers might find useful  ( https://www.flexible-tubing.com/ ). I also limit my test runs to a few minutes.
Andy
Title: Re: Retlas
Post by: Chipmaster on November 30, 2018, 08:47:09 PM
Thank you very much Graham, Jason, Jo, Yogi and Thomas. Now I’ve sorted out that awful whining noise I will finish the fine tuning and details. I still reckon the engine could run slower.
I have found that my engine runs better if the gas is supplied via a demand valve so I’ll make the valve a permanent fitting. I also intend to fit a push / pull switch for the ignition, in effect a ‘kill switch’.
Regards
Andy
Title: Re: Retlas
Post by: zeeprogrammer on November 30, 2018, 10:34:47 PM
I feel the need to point out that I have a carbon monoxide alarm in my garage.

Thanks for the reminder. I have that in my basement near the furnace but after renovating and adding an additional furnace in the new garage...I need to add sensors to the garage.

Nice running engine!
Title: Re: Retlas
Post by: RayW on December 01, 2018, 04:20:35 PM
That sounds just great now Andy, and so even running. Well done.
Title: Re: Retlas
Post by: Art K on December 01, 2018, 05:32:40 PM
Andy,
I was up last night unable to sleep and watched the video. That engine purrs like a kitten, sounds great.
Art
Title: Re: Retlas
Post by: Chipmaster on March 27, 2019, 08:04:28 PM
A sunny day so I gave my Retlas an extended run outside, most of the time it was connected to a silencer bottle.
 
IsxwJlPWXVkt=59s

Took it to our stationary engine club 'collectors fair' on Sunday but it bounced too much on the table.

Andy

Title: Re: Retlas
Post by: crueby on March 27, 2019, 08:07:50 PM
Just beautiful!!
Title: Re: Retlas
Post by: fumopuc on March 27, 2019, 08:16:36 PM
Hi Andy, a very nice engine, running like a clockwork.
Title: Re: Retlas
Post by: Admiral_dk on March 27, 2019, 10:13:12 PM
Beautiful engine, nice runner, but unless you're sitting next to it for extended periods, I do not see any need for damping the sound (unless the mic on the camera is turned down).  :praise2:
Title: Re: Retlas
Post by: Chipmaster on September 25, 2019, 07:40:54 PM
Brass plaques and badges.
For posterity my wife has offered to pay for brass plaques for my engines that will name the engine, the builder and the year built. The small plaques with relief lettering would be fixed to the wooden bases. There are a few commercial suppliers in the UK advertising cast, etched and machined plaques on the Internet. Can anyone make recommendations or observations.

Andy
Title: Re: Retlas
Post by: Jasonb on September 25, 2019, 08:38:28 PM
After some time off Diane Carney (Editor of Model Engineer) is back doing etched plates which are very good quality.

https://www.loco-nameplates.co.uk/

J
Title: Re: Retlas
Post by: Chipmaster on September 25, 2019, 10:21:45 PM
Thanks Jason, her plaques look very good.

Andy
Title: Re: Retlas
Post by: Jo on September 26, 2019, 07:22:45 AM
I have a set of plates for my Royal Scot from her and I can confirm they are excellent  :) The quality is reflected in the cost   :-\

Jo
Title: Re: Retlas
Post by: michaelr on September 26, 2019, 10:32:13 AM
Good to hear Diane Carney is back making name plates I had a set made by her some years ago for my RLE engine which fitted over the existing cast in nameplate on the water hopper.
I have one spare if anyone wants it's free.
Mike.
 
Title: Re: Retlas
Post by: michaelr on September 26, 2019, 03:58:23 PM
Nameplate now gone on first come first served basis.

Mike.