Model Engine Maker

Help! => Specific Engine Help => Topic started by: Jo on December 22, 2015, 04:11:41 PM

Title: Suzanne needs your help
Post by: Jo on December 22, 2015, 04:11:41 PM
Today I was given a set of castings for Suzanne. The problem is that no one has any drawings for her  :(

I was wondering if anyone knew where I might be able to get some from.

Jo

P.S. She's in your favourite colour scheme Don  :mischief:
Title: Re: Suzanne needs your help
Post by: Jasonb on December 22, 2015, 04:26:59 PM
I've seen here somewhere, just need to remember where.

Has someone swapped that nice spoked flywheel for a nasty disc one :(

Failing that there is not much to the girl, you should be able to draw something up for her, what sort of size is she?
Title: Re: Suzanne needs your help
Post by: Jasonb on December 22, 2015, 04:29:43 PM
Seems she has a twin sister callked Dora

http://www.ateliermb.ch/shops/gussteile/ch/contents/en-uk/d13.html
Title: Re: Suzanne needs your help
Post by: Jo on December 22, 2015, 04:47:32 PM
Has someone swapped that nice spoked flywheel for a nasty disc one :(
Failing that there is not much to the girl, you should be able to draw something up for her, what sort of size is she?

I have that one as well just it was hiding on a stack of other flywheel castings when I took that photo :naughty:

Jo
Title: Re: Suzanne needs your help
Post by: Jasonb on December 22, 2015, 05:03:13 PM
You best show us those as well just incase they need identifying.

Did you see the price of the castings on Atelier's site, don't let Uncle E know :-X but I'm sure you can afford a set of teh drawings and still be quids in :cartwheel:
Title: Re: Suzanne needs your help
Post by: Jo on December 22, 2015, 05:19:15 PM
I have the drawings for the JC Diesel  ;) but need them for the others.

 :o I had not seen that.  :-X

Jo
Title: Re: Suzanne needs your help
Post by: Jasonb on December 22, 2015, 05:47:23 PM
Quad Victoria? Double tandem Tangye and a Stuart horizontal. You will be busy.

You could do one double victoria as per Stuarts and the other as Samson & Goliath that were in ME

Das Dampf-Modell 1995 No 2 has the table engine in it - article by the designer Dietmar Carsten
Title: Re: Suzanne needs your help
Post by: Jo on December 22, 2015, 05:58:55 PM
Double tandem Tangye

:ShakeHead:

You could do one double victoria as per Stuarts and the other as Samson & Goliath that were in ME

You need to look more closely at the castings :naughty:


Thanks found that old mag of mine  :)

Jo
Title: Re: Suzanne needs your help
Post by: Jasonb on December 22, 2015, 06:23:15 PM
Missed the fact the trunk guides are closed at the ends so looks a bit like the Lincoln from Southworth so possibly the twin tandem compound.

Oh, I see modified cylinder mountings :whoohoo:
Title: Re: Suzanne needs your help
Post by: Don1966 on December 22, 2015, 06:45:52 PM
Jo, your going to need a building just to house all those casting you been hoarding girl. That is just awesome and multi tasking, your just the tops............ :ThumbsUp:

Don
Title: Re: Suzanne needs your help
Post by: Jo on December 22, 2015, 07:18:20 PM
 :embarassed: Thanks Don, As we are coming to the end of the year I had to make up for sticking to my new year resolution for so long. Next year will be a new resolution >:D

I am still short of some drawings :( I am not sure that the Suzanne castings are the same as the Dora one so if any one can help   :)

Jo
Title: Re: Suzanne needs your help
Post by: Jasonb on December 22, 2015, 07:41:42 PM
Could the Suzanne have been from GLR as they used to do a few of those designs under different names like the wall engine Rachael which is also sold as Elaine in Europe.

J
Title: Re: Suzanne needs your help
Post by: Jo on December 22, 2015, 07:46:00 PM
 :thinking: Well I am told they predate the German mag article and presumably the Atelier set by at least 10 years.

Jo
Title: Re: Suzanne needs your help
Post by: Jasonb on December 22, 2015, 08:10:41 PM
Gusteile (M Burkhand) did the castings as well and thats probably pre Atelier. Bau Plan also did the drawings

The style of that name plate is just like the other GLR engines.
Title: Re: Suzanne needs your help
Post by: Tennessee Whiskey on December 22, 2015, 08:13:48 PM
Appears to be a nice score, but, I have a question.  Now I know I'm very, very,  uneducated when it comes to things like this, but, I notice so many times you guys come up with castings with longer names than a lot of Southern U.S. girls ( country girls ) and then the drawings are harder to find than a honest politician  :shrug:.
I just wonder  :DrinkPint:

Cletus

Just read last post, y'all do a bunch of name dropping too,  don't you?
Title: Re: Suzanne needs your help
Post by: Jasonb on December 22, 2015, 08:31:13 PM
Jo looks like Suzanne was a "NEW" design to GLR in 2007. Thats the only company I have seen selling it under that name.

I know Diane is in contact with Willie so could see if we can get drawings from him, best make sure I don't say they are for you though :ROFL:

Sorry Cletus a few more names dropped, I suppose they have to keep things simple over your side of teh pond with names like #1 ;) Also the drawings are not hard to find, just hard to find at a price Jo wants to pay :LittleDevil:
Title: Re: Suzanne needs your help
Post by: Jo on December 22, 2015, 08:48:35 PM
:headscratch: Well I know my supplier has had these for nearly 20 years and he found them second hand so not GLR either... :noidea: And there are no Cast Iron castings in this set  :ShakeHead:

Its winter: moths don't breed very well in winter, they are already feeling lonely too many of their friends have not survived :(

Jo
Title: Re: Suzanne needs your help
Post by: Jasonb on December 22, 2015, 08:57:44 PM
Jo do you have a Suzanne nameplate? if not then you really need to change the thread to Dora as it seems like its not a Suzanne.

Article is 20yrs old but does not say it had just been designed.
Title: Re: Suzanne needs your help
Post by: Jo on December 23, 2015, 04:39:51 PM
No I do not have the Suzanne name plate but I am also missing one of the cross heads for Dora.

From what I understand this model engine is based on a model originally made by Maudslay, Sons and Field around 1815 to support their patent application for table engines. I would like to find out where their original model is  :)

Martin's drawings are normally very good so I am tempted  :embarassed:

Jo
Title: Re: Suzanne needs your help
Post by: Jasonb on December 23, 2015, 05:01:23 PM
Looks like both the piston and valve cross heads are in the box though I would be tempted to change them both for steel.
Title: Re: Suzanne needs your help
Post by: Jasonb on December 23, 2015, 05:38:24 PM
Build thread of a Dora

http://www.eckartkercher.de/Dora01.htm
Title: Re: Suzanne needs your help
Post by: philjoe5 on December 23, 2015, 11:54:43 PM
Quote
this model engine is based on a model originally made by Maudslay, Sons and Field around 1815

Jo,
Do you know if their patent was granted?  I'm familiar with the James Coombes Table engine and I thought that appeared around 1800, but then other sources say much later.  I'm curious who came first and got the patent.

Cheers,
Phil
Title: Re: Suzanne needs your help
Post by: Jo on December 24, 2015, 03:37:57 PM
 :( Well I have been in contact with GLR and they confirm this is one of their engines.

Sadly when the current owners took over in 2012 a lot of the drawings were missing including Suzanne. They are hoping that someone who has an engine set may get in contact with them for a replacement casting and they can do a deal to get the drawings back  :-\.

Jo
Title: Re: Suzanne needs your help
Post by: Jasonb on December 24, 2015, 04:22:12 PM
So how can they tell its one of their Suzanne's and not a Dora, also puts your dates out?

Are there marked differences between the two that would stop it being built to Dora drawings and have they tried contacting Willie who did the drawings originally for Suzanne?

J
Title: Re: Suzanne needs your help
Post by: Jo on December 24, 2015, 04:24:39 PM
I don't know who Willie is, I am sure GLR doesn't either as they are hoping, as I said, to pick up a set of drawings from a past customer.

Jo
Title: Re: Suzanne needs your help
Post by: Jasonb on December 24, 2015, 06:25:47 PM
Have you tried contacting the guy that built the one in your opening post? there are contact details on his website.
Title: Re: Suzanne needs your help
Post by: Jo on December 24, 2015, 06:41:05 PM
Yes, he was in his 80's when he posted about his engines. His email address is now unknown and his pages are being hosted by a third party.

Jo
Title: Re: Suzanne needs your help
Post by: Jo on December 24, 2015, 08:14:44 PM
I might have tracked down Willy  :whoohoo:

Typical just after I had decided to start drawing up my own version of the engine... why does it always happen like that  :Doh:

Jo
Title: Re: Suzanne needs your help
Post by: Jo on December 25, 2015, 02:43:20 PM
 :whoohoo: What a nice man  :whoohoo:

Drawings all arranged  8)

Jo
Title: Re: Suzanne needs your help
Post by: steam guy willy on December 25, 2015, 08:47:31 PM
Quote
this model engine is based on a model originally made by Maudslay, Sons and Field around 1815

Jo,
Do you know if their patent was granted?  I'm familiar with the James Coombes Table engine and I thought that appeared around 1800, but then other sources say much later.  I'm curious who came first and got the patent.

Cheers,
Phil
there is a book from 1829 that is called Historical and descriptive anecdotes of steam engines and of their inventors and improvers"  this has in the back a list of Patents in volume 2, I could look through it to see what comes up 1
Title: Re: Suzanne needs your help
Post by: philjoe5 on December 25, 2015, 09:19:39 PM
Thanks steam guy.  I found this book on Google Books and have downloaded it.  I'll see if I can find what I'm looking for.  Added:  The free download is poor quality, especially in the drawings, so if you can have a look I'll appreciate it.

Cheers,
Phil
Title: Re: Suzanne needs your help
Post by: Jo on December 26, 2015, 03:26:44 PM
Having compared the drawings for Suzanne with what I have seen of Dora's they look remarkably similar, except that there are 21 sheets in the Suzanne drawings and only 16 in the Dora set  :noidea: I suspect that Willy originally drew up this engine and sold the rights to a number of ME suppliers across Europe.

I am hoping that GLR may, as a result of my enquiries, be able to provide this engine again in the future and that will be at UK rather than Swiss prices :drinking-41:

Willy has also designed some other rather nice engines  :embarassed:

Jo
Title: Re: Suzanne needs your help
Post by: Jasonb on December 26, 2015, 04:56:42 PM
Maybe Dora was done on A3 sheets

Yes Willy has a few designs, his "Anna" will be the subject of a build article starting in the next issue of ME :)
Title: Re: Suzanne needs your help
Post by: Jo on December 26, 2015, 05:02:52 PM
The layout of the detail on the sheets are identical. What ever size you print them on.

Jo