Model Engine Maker

Supporting => Vehicles & Models => Topic started by: Ramon on December 11, 2013, 10:41:04 PM

Title: 'WIDE A WAKE' a steam launch tale
Post by: Ramon on December 11, 2013, 10:41:04 PM
Hi 'Guys'

As you may have seen elsewhere I have finally been motivated to pick up a project that I first took interest in in 1972  :o - it just goes to show that 'it's never too late' but I admit this is stetching it a bit  :)

Anyway it all began when the 1972 Feb issue of model boat magazine dropped on the mat. Featured inside was this absolutely enchanting steam launch and I was instantly smitten! I was, at that time, enjoying a short foray into powerboating from previously a total dedication to aeromodelling and it would prove not only the catalyst for my subsequent journey into model engineering but consequently a career change to boot but thats' another story.

Wide a Wake was a clinker (lapstrake) built boat powered with a Stuart Turner Double Ten engine. Designed by Howard Croker, an Australian I believe, it's appeal was that it was built exactly as a full size boat plus of course it had a real steam engine in - something I was completely unaware existed at that time.

An engine was sought - I had no skills nor kit to make such - and after several calls to various model shops were made, all from the local village phone box, what sounded like a D10 was located in Roland Scotts of Bolton. Second hand the deal was done - a brand new water cooled Merco 61 IC engine was taken in direct exchange and the engine duly arrived  :( - Well it worked but it did look in a very sorry state. Really dirty and painted in the most awful lurid, near luminous, green I stripped it down repainted it and rebuilt it to a more reasonable appearance.
The boiler was made, the shell material courtesey of an offcut from a local shipyard and with the help of a work colleague the boiler was made at work during an onshore lull. Unfortunately one of the water tubes has a slight leak so preventing a hydraulic test so neccessary today. Also the material that the dome is made from, though thought that it is possibly manganese bronze, could be brass. No knowledge of the dezincification process was known at the time and so it would be far to risky to chance so the boiler is due for a complete overhaul but more on that at a later date.

However the plant has sat waiting patiently since 1972 ::)...
(https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-6IWxshBBXvI/TZ4yDS8r19I/AAAAAAAAE8g/ridnlSjbRRo/s912/DSCF0446.JPG)

Materials were purchased at the time - copper nails and roves, brass screws, tubing for the propshaft etc followed a while later by the timber (Parana Pine) but nothing got done for as is the way of things events got overtaken by the desire to further model engineering skills. That first 'real' lathe was bought an ML10, quickly upgraded to an ML7, and the rest is 'as they say'.

About ten years ago the keel was cut out and the stem attached along with the moulds (shadows) but again nothing transpired until that is about twelve weeks ago when quite unexpectedly, but no doubt inspired by the two launches seen at Norwich, the urge was there - perhaps it really was finally time to seize the moment, after all it might not last for long ;D

It's well underway at this point (sorry about the pun) but I'll post a few pics tonight and follow up with some more later if you deem suitable. I can say having now actually got a hull, it's proved to be an immensely satisfying thing to build - should have done it years ago ::)

Some pics then...

First off was to square up the lower face of the keel - to the rear are the moulds fixed to a rigid base board
(https://lh5.googleusercontent.com/-atMWAnZPk7A/Up4xMC0K85I/AAAAAAAAH7Q/CYwL13NHV98/s912/DSCF3350.JPG)

Then laminate the hog
(https://lh4.googleusercontent.com/-qUOe56i_jQA/Up4xMqAvEwI/AAAAAAAAH7Y/cr-pomNg7Dk/s912/DSCF3353.JPG)

Next was to drill out for the prop tube.  This jig was made and two long series drills were used - 6.5 and 11.5. The first hole was drilled then the blocks opened up to take the 11.5 drill
(https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-JqdP8au2-sw/Up4xRSCfPaI/AAAAAAAAH7g/fbP3THw3Gho/s912/DSCF3354.JPG)

(https://lh4.googleusercontent.com/-cUfdB7_GdC8/Up4xYuRjZCI/AAAAAAAAH8I/kzug7hO9Ous/s912/DSCF3359.JPG)

Run out was a concern but very little -about .5mm over 200mm or so - occurred. That was trued up enough using a file to align the prop tube spot on.
(https://lh4.googleusercontent.com/-bdpXj2Qawac/Up4xWHMF9GI/AAAAAAAAH74/WwGtX7ICHOI/s912/DSCF3357.JPG)

The keel was then 'sided' (tapered) and the water ways cut in
(https://lh4.googleusercontent.com/-WrzvCuv6jM8/Up4xahsbUhI/AAAAAAAAH8Q/DkwTMIvHCfY/s912/DSCF3361.JPG)

With the shaft log and transom fixed in place along with the hog the keel assembly was held to the moulds using the transom, the stem and two small bolts through the keel into the shadows ready for the next phase - the planks.
(https://lh5.googleusercontent.com/-HWX0vk-Zbis/Up4xeSRlgZI/AAAAAAAAH8g/F7wQ-QjIWfQ/s912/DSCF3364.JPG)

I got about this far earlier and then lost it all by inadvertently hitting the back button so that's the lot for tonight - aaaagh - it's good to be back!

Regards - Ramon

Title: Re: 'WIDE A WAKE' a steam launch tale
Post by: steamup on December 11, 2013, 11:07:48 PM
Great to see another Wide a Wake on the building board.
I have just had my first season sailing this model (with changes to the deck design) and very enjoyable it has been.
I wish you all the best on your build.
FVUebQ8PqtQ
Title: Re: 'WIDE A WAKE' a steam launch tale
Post by: ths on December 12, 2013, 09:21:45 AM
Great to see you back, Ramon, with what will be a most enjoyable project. I love boats, but haven't made one yet. Well, the hull of a Miss America which I must complete.

That looks to be a fairly sizeable craft, compared to the workbench, and wonderful use of the bit and brace. Was that an auger bit, or a twist drill? Worked a treat.

Nice clip from Steamup too.

Cheers, Hugh.
Title: Re: 'WIDE A WAKE' a steam launch tale
Post by: Ramon on December 12, 2013, 09:29:45 AM
Hi 'Steamup' - If mine looks and sails (steams?) as good as that I'll be well chuffed :ThumbsUp:

The Borderer pushes that along quite well - despite the original calling for it I have a sneaking suspicion it might be a little overpowered with a Double Ten

Currently the hull is now finished up to deck level - I'll post some more pics later but am concerned about the wood aspect - non PC? - I hope not  :embarassed:

Regards - Ramon

Hugh's post came up as I was typing this -

Thanks Hugh - it's  the same size as Steamups at 52" the beam designed is 14 1/2" but it spread a little over the moulds and is about 15 3/4. Still looks okay and in proportion though.

The brace I've had since I was fourteen - it belonged to my uncle - the bit was an ordinary long-series twist drill the very end turned down to fit. Taking it slow with the brace as opposed to power drilling I felt there would be more control over possible run out

Cheers for now
Title: Re: 'WIDE A WAKE' a steam launch tale
Post by: steamer on December 12, 2013, 10:11:17 AM
Hey Ramon!

This is all looking strikingly familiar....though as I remember, I used a 1 1/2" auger bit and an 1/2 drive drill followed by a boring bar........fixture looked the same!.....and no you can never EVER have too many C clamps!

 :ThumbsUp:

Dave
Title: Re: 'WIDE A WAKE' a steam launch tale
Post by: steamer on December 12, 2013, 10:17:59 AM
The wood in the keel looks like "Merenti"....nice stuff to work with...watch for wind shakes though....they'll appear in the grain as a faint white line ....though, your not buying truck loads of the stuff... :lolb:

Dave
Title: Re: 'WIDE A WAKE' a steam launch tale
Post by: steamer on December 12, 2013, 10:20:25 AM
Oh and as to suitability...this is the vehicle section.


....keep em coming!

Dave
Title: Re: 'WIDE A WAKE' a steam launch tale
Post by: b.lindsey on December 12, 2013, 12:28:54 PM
Ramon, I have never done anything with launches, sailing vessels, or anything of the sort but I am enjoying this a lot. I rather like to work with the brown stuff at times though simple stuff like engine bases, etc.  Seeing this launch come together and the various processes and techniques is fascinating!

Bill
Title: Re: 'WIDE A WAKE' a steam launch tale
Post by: Ramon on December 13, 2013, 10:11:51 PM
Hi Guys, Thanks for the comments, nice to hear you have an interest.

Dave I have no idea what the actual timber is the keel is made from but you are probably correct. It was a 'mahogany' substitute used in the manufacture of window frames bought for a quid at a local shed maker - no we don't have mahogany sheds ;) he'd bought a job lot of rejects ;) It was quite tough relative to mahogany but finished reasonably well. It's going to get painted so that lovely grain will disappear. And yes you are so right - I had every screw clamp at my disposal in play there.

Although I've built the odd model boat before this is the first time I've ever tackled anything like this ie clinker planking. Fortunately I live about eight miles from an International Wooden Boat Building College so I took the keel in to ask some questions. I was very surprised at the strength of interest and the readiness to help - we (Sue was with me) had all the questions answered by being taken round and actually shown the solution on boats in varying stages of completion. It was a fascinating place with boats of all sizes in a seemingly labyrinthine building. Armed with such help and the find of an excellent series of videos on YouTube I felt confidant enough to press ahead. I've been back since but more on that a bit later.

Here are a few more pics of progress .....

My first question had been how was a transom made if too wide for a single piece of timber - three pieces grooved and fitted with tongues..
(https://lh6.googleusercontent.com/-y2mf8rWZQgA/Up4xkEXTVGI/AAAAAAAAH9A/an5tPdKtaJw/s912/DSCF3369.JPG)
Scale-wise it's over thick but as that will not be seen once finished it gives a much better gluing surface

With the keel, stem and transom rigidly secured to the moulds it was time to mark of each mould to give the plank widths. First off a marking board was required to give twelve divisions. A strip of card was marked to the actual length around one side of each respective mould and set to give twelve equal divisions
(https://lh4.googleusercontent.com/-mQaCDT6eMQU/Up4xoUmAtuI/AAAAAAAAH9M/LOzsHn-jPes/s912/DSCF3371.JPG)

The each mould was marked both sides.
(https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-NaIbkQJmcZw/Up4xoxwRFKI/AAAAAAAAH9U/A59iMHMrU08/s912/DSCF3373.JPG)

(https://lh4.googleusercontent.com/-QDobuFETnVQ/Up4xpXbQyEI/AAAAAAAAH9Y/tKqUWVihAgw/s912/DSCF3374.JPG)
A 'Rabbet' (A whole new vocabulary was required!) was cut along the edge of the keel for the 'garboard' (see what I mean ;) plank to fit into and finally all the preparation was done and the planking could begin.

After some trial and error, knife and fork trimming the first( garboard) plank is glued and screwed in place
(https://lh4.googleusercontent.com/-hNeNsfqN0oY/Up4xukOnquI/AAAAAAAAH9w/dYdRsWP4gjE/s912/DSCF3378.JPG)

Each plank is a different shape. After that first  plank is in situ  a template is taken off it's edge. This is used to mark the next plank which is cut over wide and fitted in place. It's true width is then marked from the marks on the moulds using dividers or a compass and the marks joined using a flexible batten. The plank is then cut out and used as a template for the matching plank on the other side.
(https://lh6.googleusercontent.com/-KzvxSWCSNBY/Up4xuHpHcAI/AAAAAAAAH9s/5XqL07g1Pwc/s640/DSCF3377.JPG)
Each plank increases it's 'waviness' the last requiring quite a wide piece of timber to accomodate it. This is the second plank cut out and its opposite number has been marked out.

Simple wooden clamps and the bench top provided an excellent way to hold the planks for shaping. All trimming was done to the line using that small block plane, the chisel and the sanding block.
(https://lh4.googleusercontent.com/--vGBeG7tRA4/Up4xyP1Z4RI/AAAAAAAAH94/PdxQ3Xwkj9o/s912/DSCF3379.JPG)

These little peg type clamps and wedges,seen on the videos were an absolute boon. I had four of the sliding clamps but soon bought another eight and even then I could have done with more  :o
(https://lh4.googleusercontent.com/--kH0YpMA4dk/Up4x2ATJp-I/AAAAAAAAH-I/vhyHCY-hu4o/s912/DSCF3381.JPG)

'Each plank was first steamed and held in place for about four hours then glued to the previous one and left to set (Glue used was 'Titebond 3' a waterproof PVA which has an incredibly quick(for PVA) grab time) . Once set each plank was 'rivetted' at 2" spacing
(https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-jatVuwOKee8/Up4x7C34vKI/AAAAAAAAH-c/1rnyUzkl4ss/s912/DSCF3390.JPG)

Eight planks down - three quarters of the way in.
(https://lh4.googleusercontent.com/-t323yBxgPaM/Up4yA-XaJ2I/AAAAAAAAH-4/5hX_h2vInl4/s912/DSCF3398.JPG)
Incidentally the 'rivets' should be 'copper nails and roves' - I'll comment on them next time.


Hope this is of interest to you - you have to admit it is a bit ( :o) different from making ali swarf  ;)

Regards for now - Ramon





Title: Re: 'WIDE A WAKE' a steam launch tale
Post by: steamer on December 13, 2013, 11:35:53 PM
Considering your post has spanned 40 years ....seems short!... 8)

Ya doin fine man!

Dave
Title: Re: 'WIDE A WAKE' a steam launch tale
Post by: b.lindsey on December 14, 2013, 12:30:08 AM
Dang....that is gorgeous!!!  I like seeing it, just wish I knew more about boat making. Excellent pictures too.

Bill
Title: Re: 'WIDE A WAKE' a steam launch tale
Post by: ths on December 14, 2013, 12:44:28 AM
Love it.

Hugh.
Title: Re: 'WIDE A WAKE' a steam launch tale
Post by: Pete49 on December 14, 2013, 02:29:28 AM
Ramon as a lover and user of all things boat and a amateur builder of a few types I am watching with interest.  I have yet to try modelling them though I love watching those that do.
Pete
Title: Re: 'WIDE A WAKE' a steam launch tale
Post by: joe d on December 14, 2013, 04:14:18 AM
Ramon

My introduction to sailing was in clinker-built navy whalers and cutters as a teen-aged Sea Cadet.  I still love that type of hull!
I will be following along with great interest.

Cheers,  Joe
Title: Re: 'WIDE A WAKE' a steam launch tale
Post by: Ramon on December 15, 2013, 08:54:21 PM
Hi again guys - it's nice to hear all your views and comments - I know this is a bit 'wooden' (oooh!) at the minute but I hope it will be taken as part of the bigger picture - hopefully it won't be too long before it does what it's supposed to and contain a steam engine ;)


I mentioned the 'rivets' - well traditionally, ie fullsize,  the planks are fastened using copper nails and dome shaped washers called roves ...
(https://lh6.googleusercontent.com/-TPdDDS6bVak/UqzzIs2zQ-I/AAAAAAAAIFo/nfpQovVFzVg/s912/DSCF3525.JPG)
The nail is driven through pre-drilled holes through the planks from the outside, the rove is then driven, dome outermost, over the nail using a steel dolly to drive it up tight then the nail is nipped off or 'clenched' using nippers and finally peened over the rove. That's a lot of work on any boat and it was just the same here though I cheated a little - well quite a bit I suppose ;)

I bought these nails above  in 1972 - nothing like getting prepared eh  ::) - they and the roves were the smallest available at the time though I believe much smaller roves were one time obtainable. I've always thought that they might be a bit over-scale but would have to live with it however someone set the grey matter working when they suggested using snap-head copper rivets as used for boilers/tenders etc. First thought was that the head would flatten slightly when peening over to 'resemble' a rove but a little work produced a simple punch and die to stamp the rivet head to a more convincing shape ....

(https://lh5.googleusercontent.com/-xwtZcP022hM/UquOnfaAZ2I/AAAAAAAAID8/6MM-ud8bTQQ/s912/DSCF3503.JPG)

(https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-45RueWoR6m4/UquOoOXrd9I/AAAAAAAAIEA/qmiXjnckYWo/s912/DSCF3504.JPG)

(https://lh5.googleusercontent.com/-na-lOhkaNqM/UquOphYDR6I/AAAAAAAAIEI/ag6nAgEnQDE/s912/DSCF3506.JPG)

If these were inserted from the inside and then peened over and filed off on the outside they might just look convincing enough.
Just how convincing they turned out to be was quite a surprise - more a bit later.

A few were done and a small test piece made to satisfy myself it would work. 1/16 dia rivets were used and surprisingly they worked out just under, but very near to scale  :D For the first time then that home made fly-press actually got to work on a repetitive basis and produced several hundred of these little devils in 1/4, 38. and 1/2" lengths. The 'die' BTW,  actually really an anvil, had a sprung loaded ejector below hence the rivets sitting proud

Every rivet then had to have a point filed on so as to penetrate the pre-drilled holes. Held in needle nose pliers this was done one at a time with a needle file -  quite time consuming, especially when fitting the planks as every one had to be inserted, as said, from the inside and using a mirror to see the hole  ::)

Trying my best to ignore the total number of rivets required, the hull,  came together surprisingly quickly at a rate of about two planks every day and a half - make a template, trial cut the plank and shape to fit, make the opposite plank, steam one at a time, glue then rivet before moving on to the next until finally only the sheer plank was left to do ...
(https://lh4.googleusercontent.com/-Y_E_yAP_VwE/Up4yGpmfcgI/AAAAAAAAH_I/C8RbGrDYZwE/s912/DSCF3404.JPG)

By this time the shape of the individual planks were needing quite wide material - It's quite surprising how each shape develops. So much so that the 21/2" stock that I'd cut was not wide enough for the sheer plank so another two pieces at 3" were required and finally that last of twelve planks went on - I think I might be allowed a :whoohoo: at this point ...
(https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-VXXY6xbbhLo/Up4yI_cJgyI/AAAAAAAAH_Y/1D1uZY8aYqk/s912/DSCF3409.JPG)

(https://lh4.googleusercontent.com/-BFPCtt8mdoU/Up4yLkzLrjI/AAAAAAAAH_g/Ezt8UR-JyD0/s912/DSCF3412.JPG)

The brass stem plate was cut and fitted before trimming and flaring the stem to the planks...
(https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-D1vLv_peOj8/Up4yOfrD3sI/AAAAAAAAH_w/LqxT86nh2Jw/s912/DSCF3425.JPG)

And finally the big moment of taking it off the moulds had arrived  ;D ....
(https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-X6AwgLaVm3s/Up4yQxjtYrI/AAAAAAAAH_4/2menYq6a-x0/s912/DSCF3427.JPG)

..and that inner sheer plank could at last be fitted..
(https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-5VAm01J9OPQ/Up4yUPlU5dI/AAAAAAAAIAI/GaNQhUbTJmE/s912/DSCF3436.JPG)

At this stage I took it back to the Boat Building College to ask some more questions before fitting the ribs. It really made my day  ;D when not one but two instructors who came to look at it independently both remarked 'Where did you find those little roves? Yep truly ;D

That isn't it though - there's a whole load of ribs to go in and near as many rivets to do too :o - more on that a bit later.

Hope this is seen as a little change from the mainstream but with that intent firmly in mind ;)

Regards - Ramon
Title: Re: 'WIDE A WAKE' a steam launch tale
Post by: tel on December 15, 2013, 09:02:01 PM
Beautiful work Ramon!   :ThumbsUp: A hull like this is something I've long wanted to do, but it's got me a bit intimidated.
Title: Re: 'WIDE A WAKE' a steam launch tale
Post by: Don1966 on December 15, 2013, 09:16:03 PM
Ramon your work is always first rate. That is a beautiful job you done on the hull.  :ThumbsUp:

Don
Title: Re: 'WIDE A WAKE' a steam launch tale
Post by: steamer on December 15, 2013, 09:23:27 PM
That is SAWEEEEET!....Nice Work Ramon...you can build a boat for may anytime!

Dave
Title: Re: 'WIDE A WAKE' a steam launch tale
Post by: b.lindsey on December 15, 2013, 09:51:30 PM
I'm with tel....beautiful but intimidating too!!  Still its a lovely hull!!

Bill
Title: Re: 'WIDE A WAKE' a steam launch tale
Post by: tvoght on December 15, 2013, 11:15:26 PM
That is really some beautiful work. I can imagine the folks over at the Boat Building College were suitably impressed.

--Tim
Title: Re: 'WIDE A WAKE' a steam launch tale
Post by: Dave Otto on December 16, 2013, 12:38:40 AM
Ramon,

You make it look so easy; that is just beautiful!

Please keep the pictures coming.


Dave
Title: Re: 'WIDE A WAKE' a steam launch tale
Post by: ReFlad on December 16, 2013, 01:47:49 AM
Wow Ramon,
That is some awesome craftsmanship.   Keep it coming!

Ronald
Title: Re: 'WIDE A WAKE' a steam launch tale
Post by: ths on December 16, 2013, 05:24:48 AM
How did the hull release from the mould? Superb work.

Hugh.
Title: Re: 'WIDE A WAKE' a steam launch tale
Post by: Maryak on December 16, 2013, 07:34:10 AM
Wonderful work Ramon,

I'm very curious as to where, why, what, how etc. made you go the Dutch wooden boat building route, rather than the English. i.e. ribs last instead of ribs first??

Best Regards
Bob
Title: Re: 'WIDE A WAKE' a steam launch tale
Post by: Steamer5 on December 16, 2013, 08:18:50 AM
Hi Ramon,
That looks amazing! The rivets take me back to my job, I helped a couple of shipwrights who were repairing a wooden fishing trawler that needed to have planking replaced & re-nailing below the water line, after running aground. The guys needed to use twisted shank nails, not plain shank, these weren't available at the time, so guess who got to put the 2 or 3 twists in boxes full of nails! That was the fun part, lying on your back holding the dolly while the roving was done, a lump of about 50 mm steel about 300 mm long if memory recalls, wasn't! It got better once we got up the side.
Looking forward to the next installment.

Cheers Kerrin
Title: Re: 'WIDE A WAKE' a steam launch tale
Post by: pgp001 on December 16, 2013, 01:14:35 PM
Ramon

Back with a bang  :ThumbsUp:
I wish I had the patience to do something like that, looking forward to seeing it finished.

Phil
Title: Re: 'WIDE A WAKE' a steam launch tale
Post by: Ramon on December 16, 2013, 01:20:37 PM
Hi Guy's,

Thanks - I really am pleased to think you are all enjoying this, I was a little concerned it might not be quite 'PC'  :embarassed:

Tel (and Bill) -  All I can say is don't be intimidated as it really isn't as difficult as it may look. Yes those rivets are a pain but once the plank shape is defined it's relatively easy - providing of course you have enough clamps   ;) It has taken me so long to take the plunge and yet here it is just twelve weeks after starting ready for fitting out. Truly - I really can't quite believe it.

Hugh - Much to my expectation (Edit - disbelief - I did not expect it to just lift off!!) it simply lifted off the moulds. As each plank was glued in I had covered the area on the mould beneath with selo-tape just in case of any seepage but none was evident. I masked each plank to give the 1/4" overlap before applying the glue then whipped the tape away before attaching the next plank.

Bob - You've got me on this one - I didn't know that this was the 'Dutch' method. I was under the impression that the ribs were always put in after the planking on a clinker built boat. That's certainly the way it's done at the college and on the videos on You-tube. The only difference I made was to do the hull upside down whereas, I believe, most are made with the keel set on blocks, the moulds supported by stays from a purloin above.

Kerrin - I can well sympathise with the nails. I remember going into work once to find what looked like 'hundreds' of small boxes on pallets. They contained (many) small parts for the double glazing industry and had all  been made minus one hole. There were only ten thousand of them  :facepalm: all to be drilled on the drill press - but who was the lucky guy who was going on a fortnights holiday the next day  ;D

Thanks as always for all your interest - back later with the last update.

Regards - Ramon
Title: Re: 'WIDE A WAKE' a steam launch tale
Post by: cfellows on December 16, 2013, 04:04:48 PM
Simply lovely.  First rate workmanship!  I'm truly impressed.

Chuck
Title: Re: 'WIDE A WAKE' a steam launch tale
Post by: HobbyNut on December 19, 2013, 05:58:12 PM
This is definitely true craftmanship that we have seen here.
 A clinker boat has been a lifelong dream of mine. I helped a neighbor build one back when I was about 8 in Australia. He put me inside holding the bucking block while he set the rivets!! Helped him seal it with "RED LEAD" paint too :facepalm: But there again, our house was made of hardwood and fibro ASBESTOS cement sheeting, on walls, ceiling and roof.
Wife and I built a 16'-0" cedar strip canoe in 2001. That was a lot of work.
Title: Re: 'WIDE A WAKE' a steam launch tale
Post by: steamup on December 19, 2013, 07:30:49 PM
Bob the clinker hull goes back some time in England, long before the carvel hull design. The Vikings seemed to do a rather good job of their Longboats.
Title: Re: 'WIDE A WAKE' a steam launch tale
Post by: Ramon on December 19, 2013, 10:13:27 PM
Hi Guys

Once again my thanks for all your kind words. I've reached a cut off point now and need to make provision for fitting the boiler and engine before continuing any more wood work. That will entail stripping the boiler down and milling out the end plates so as to remove the centre flue then starting again making sure that this time the centre flue is pressure tested for leaks before fitting it to the boiler shell  :facepalm2: 

Just to finish off this stage then here are a few images that brings the hull up to date......

Next stage was to fit the ribs. These were cut from Poplar often referred to as Tulipwood. These were sawn to size and had the edges on one face rounded using the sanding block then smoothed with a piece of 180 grit paper held in the hand.
(https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-WL93N3Dui0I/Up4yTthKopI/AAAAAAAAIAE/f9CEli54xhs/s912/DSCF3435.JPG)

A fewstrips at a time were then steamed for 20mins or so to make them flexible - the steamer, used for the planking as well, was just four pieces of pine screwed together with the open ends blocked with old 'outside duty' cloths. The steam source was a wallpaper stripper which provided copious amounts of steam.
(https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-CBKsJ7-DprE/Up4yVxtBihI/AAAAAAAAIAQ/BctV7QhTpAE/s912/DSCF3439.JPG)

Each rib was quickly pressed into position to form over the hog and held with clamps until dry - about 4-6hours
(https://lh6.googleusercontent.com/-Kg2f3yRuEr4/Up4yZWxK3eI/AAAAAAAAIAc/STw080blMto/s912/DSCF3444.JPG)

Then before steaming and fitting the next ribs these were  rivetted sufficient enough to secure in place - they would be fully rivetted later. Initially six ribs were steamed but proved too many to fit at one time so after this they were done three at a time.
(https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-E_g0Vq18Oig/Up4yZq8-vpI/AAAAAAAAIAg/9x-ODiXBmpE/s912/DSCF3449.JPG)

(https://lh6.googleusercontent.com/-yfhndkopMoc/Up4yac9aGtI/AAAAAAAAIAo/8FZZQ1zbh1o/s912/DSCF3453.JPG)

Then it was a matter of steadily working through all twenty two ribs and filling in the remaining rivets.....
(https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-g4v5tdeGBmQ/UrNiPwn0amI/AAAAAAAAIJ8/NyAfE5Fc-jU/s912/DSCF3570.JPG)

.....before finally reaching that magic moment - the last two ;D
(https://lh6.googleusercontent.com/-u--HTQLOn80/UquOsy6DfHI/AAAAAAAAIEU/y12xZbCLY-o/s912/DSCF3510.JPG)

With all the ribs in the inwhale could be fitted - glued and clamped in place, rivetted between clamps and gradually working along
(https://lh4.googleusercontent.com/-4_sVxnlrShs/UquOv91hBiI/AAAAAAAAIEo/R6ocQCT0DmE/s912/DSCF3523.JPG)

With those significant parts in, the 'Breasthook' -
(https://lh5.googleusercontent.com/-L37V4JzY68U/UrNiI_PybGI/AAAAAAAAIJs/A8-ZNoKOkGI/s912/DSCF3564.JPG)
 - and the 'Quarter Knees' were glued and clamped in place. (Currently I'm awaiting some very small screws - then the space between the inwhale and sheer plank will be filled before screwing into these parts)
(https://lh5.googleusercontent.com/-tPVQkB5AMlA/UrNiI-wmXjI/AAAAAAAAIJo/28hbU-yDAqI/s912/DSCF3565.JPG)

And that's it for this initial phase. It's a short break before working on the boiler and once thats done the boat can enter its second phase - fitting out and laying the deck areas. Last 'couple' of pics then..
(https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-EWaWPU6g-i0/UrNiQQZOiPI/AAAAAAAAIKE/0NPBQ-86o-s/s912/DSCF3572.JPG)

(https://lh6.googleusercontent.com/-PkCxRN2rAXA/UrNiT6I_XmI/AAAAAAAAIKQ/PNxDtfbOYCc/s912/DSCF3574.JPG)

(https://lh5.googleusercontent.com/-4hkhhaNZrgM/UrNiUTCEK2I/AAAAAAAAIKU/IZQJfmlwd_E/s912/DSCF3577.JPG)


To coin a phrase then 'That's all Folks' it'll be a while before the next post but in the meantime thanks for taking such an interest in this build so far and for all those kind thoughts and comments - you might like to know I took it to the College again today to find out more about 'stringers and risers' and how to fit the engine supports - let's just say they liked it  ;)

I wish you all a very pleasant Christmas - hope you find space somewhere for some workshop time - and of course a Very Happy, Peaceful and Productive New Year :ThumbsUp:

Regards - Ramon
Title: Re: 'WIDE A WAKE' a steam launch tale
Post by: smfr on December 19, 2013, 10:58:15 PM
What a thing of beauty. I would be immensely proud to have made that.  :ThumbsUp: :ThumbsUp:

Simon
Title: Re: 'WIDE A WAKE' a steam launch tale
Post by: Admiral_dk on December 19, 2013, 11:21:35 PM
Quote
What a thing of beauty. I would be immensely proud to have made that.
  Amen to that  :NotWorthy:

I remember sailing a clinker rowboat approx 5m./15' with a 5.5HP Johnson outboard (my grandfathers) from birth to about 12 years old along with this old steamer (150 years in 2011) :
(http://silkeborgcom.files.wordpress.com/2010/12/hjejlen.jpg)

Best memories of my childhood - so you can say I got a very soft spot clinker builds  :)

Sorry about the size - but it's not my picture.
Title: Re: 'WIDE A WAKE' a steam launch tale
Post by: b.lindsey on December 20, 2013, 01:26:32 AM
Man, that's a lot of rivets Ramon but it sure looks fantastic!! Will be looking forward to the next update, even if it is a while.

Bill
Title: Re: 'WIDE A WAKE' a steam launch tale
Post by: ths on December 20, 2013, 03:33:53 AM
It definitely is a thing of beauty, but before you go, could we see a shot of how the rivets look clinched on the seaward side of the hull?

Cheers, Hugh.
Title: Re: 'WIDE A WAKE' a steam launch tale
Post by: Jo on December 20, 2013, 07:31:38 AM
The Hull looks really good  :ThumbsUp: but you are still not convincing me that I want to work in that material  :ShakeHead:

Jo
Title: Re: 'WIDE A WAKE' a steam launch tale
Post by: steamer on December 20, 2013, 08:48:35 AM
As one boat builder to another Ramon....That's some mighty fine work! :praise2:

Dave
Title: Re: 'WIDE A WAKE' a steam launch tale
Post by: Stilldrillin on December 20, 2013, 09:00:19 AM
Like, beautiful poetry.  (http://serve.mysmiley.net/love/love0001.gif) (http://www.blueislandsdiving.com)

"Well done", just doesn't seem enough.......  :praise2:

David D
Title: Re: 'WIDE A WAKE' a steam launch tale
Post by: steamer on December 20, 2013, 09:03:17 AM
Like, beautiful poetry.  (http://serve.mysmiley.net/love/love0001.gif) (http://www.blueislandsdiving.com)

"Well done", just doesn't seem enough.......  :praise2:

David D

Couldn't agree more....that is some mighty fine "Kung-fu"!
Title: Re: 'WIDE A WAKE' a steam launch tale
Post by: Ramon on December 20, 2013, 09:29:35 AM
Dave - I had a good chuckle at that - your powers of description have to be heard (or seen) - 'Kung Fu' eh - ah! you definitely have a way with words ;)

'Guys' I'm sure you know how I feel from all your kind words - I love sharing what I do but hope it's never seen as 'showing off'. I'm not going to have too much to say for awhile but this time I shall stay around to keep up to speed with what you all are doing too - I guess I feel 'not a little' guilty that I haven't done that these past six months.

Anyway, thank you all again - here's that 'one more pic' for Hugh and I'll leave you in peace for a short while
(https://lh6.googleusercontent.com/-ftMKWeN6x4g/UrQK3k9XtfI/AAAAAAAAIMQ/JjQ72U9QVBk/s912/DSCF3586.JPG)

Hugh - the 'rivets' were driven home from the inside then the surplus nipped off  to within a mm or so. The rough point was knocked back with a file then they were peened over holding a dolly on the inside. Once peened they were filed smooth and sanded back hopefully to look like the nail heads they should be.

Regards for now - Ramon
Title: Re: 'WIDE A WAKE' a steam launch tale
Post by: steamer on December 20, 2013, 09:41:29 AM
Ramon,

We all have lives to live.  I have a pair of active happy kids, and a loving somehow and for some reason that escapes me ...adores and loves me. 
I get pulled in 15 directions by the kids, the wife, the house, the job, the family...you name it...someone wants a piece.

You just do what you can do.   That's it!....there isn't anything more philosophical than that....one little day at a time.

I would suggest you are doing the same...and I for one...and I think I speak for a lot of the membership...very much appreciate what you contribute, and we have all learned from it.

As far as "showing off" ...Nothing of the sort!...no we are sharing a passion to "do"...we all bring our own "flavor" to it...and we all appreciate how much time, money, effort, tears!...go into it.   I KNOW what it takes to  build a boat.....like many things in life....PERSISTANCE!...COURAGE!.....for what you say?....the UNKNOWN!

We are not born knowing this stuff...we learn it, and the biggest part of learning something scary is EFFORT   The "DO" part.

But you already know this ........ 8)
 :cheers:
Dave

Title: Re: 'WIDE A WAKE' a steam launch tale
Post by: ths on December 20, 2013, 11:47:41 AM
Hmmmmm....ta.

Hugh.
Title: Re: 'WIDE A WAKE' a steam launch tale
Post by: b.lindsey on December 20, 2013, 12:24:03 PM
Dave has already said it best Ramon...but to paraphrase another tongue in cheek saying...."If you can do it, it ain't bragging !"  :)  I for one am loving this build and know NOTHING about boats or boat building either one.

Bill
Title: Re: 'WIDE A WAKE' a steam launch tale
Post by: HobbyNut on December 20, 2013, 05:27:16 PM
That is a lot of very fine work.... well worth showing off...bragging: not even close.....
I don't think that you will find too many on here that could be guilty of that.
It is all sharing with others for their knowledge, or conversely gaining from others for your knowledge.....(in my case!!)
Title: Re: 'WIDE A WAKE' a steam launch tale
Post by: Maryak on December 20, 2013, 08:34:55 PM


I would suggest you are doing the same...and I for one...and I think I speak for a lot of the membership...very much appreciate what you contribute, and we have all learned from it.

As far as "showing off" ...Nothing of the sort!...no we are sharing a passion to "do"...we all bring our own "flavor" to it...and we all appreciate how much time, money, effort, tears!...go into it.   I KNOW what it takes to  build a boat.....like many things in life....PERSISTANCE!...COURAGE!.....for what you say?....the UNKNOWN!

We are not born knowing this stuff...we learn it, and the biggest part of learning something scary is EFFORT   The "DO" part.

But you already know this

Dave

Here, here!

Having built 2x 12 ft sailing boats and restored a wooden 40ft workboat and a 103ft steel steam tug. The last 2 with a lot of help from others, it's all been 10% inspiration and 90% perspiration!! At one stage I was going to strap a pair of oars on my back and start walking North. When somebody tapped me on the shoulder and asked what they were, I figured that would be a good place to settle. I ended up building our new house 600yds from the Great Southern Ocean!

Best Regards
Bob
Title: Re: 'WIDE A WAKE' a steam launch tale
Post by: Jim Nic on December 20, 2013, 09:12:42 PM
So who's going to be first to accuse Ramon of "showing off" ?  Not anyone here, I'm sure, and most certainly not me.  I'm just very grateful to you Ramon for taking the time to describe your beautiful work for the benefit of us all.  I find it truly inspiring.

Jim
Title: Re: 'WIDE A WAKE' a steam launch tale
Post by: tel on December 20, 2013, 09:38:46 PM
Showing off? It would be criminal not to show work of that standard!
Title: Re: 'WIDE A WAKE' a steam launch tale
Post by: derekwarner on December 20, 2013, 09:47:34 PM
There are a number of "Wide a Wake" build on other WEB sites..........however I intentionally didn't mention this

This detailed build here by Ramon is an inspiration to many 'would be' wooden boat builders  :facepalm:

I hope to read & view many more details of the internal fit out....... :cheers: .....Derek
Title: Re: 'WIDE A WAKE' a steam launch tale
Post by: Ramon on December 20, 2013, 11:03:04 PM
Oh dear Guy's I didn't quite expect this response :embarassed: It just goes to show that sometimes you have to choose your words very carefully  ::)

It's all very thoughtful of you and truly, very much appreciated, but I can see I didn't quite phrase my words well and I'm now feeling a mite foolish. I really just meant that given I'd been missing from here for quite a while I hoped it wouldn't be seen as a 'look what I've made' post - especially as it was all in wood  :o .

Honestly - it's been a pleasure to post about it and very gratifying to hear your responses but really, I think that should be enough on this now. I can't thank you enough though for all your very kind comments of support and your interest in the subject.

I'll look forward to bringing you the next stage as soon as I can - in the meantime my very best regards

Ramon
Title: Re: 'WIDE A WAKE' a steam launch tale
Post by: steamer on December 21, 2013, 12:10:58 AM


It's all very thoughtful of you and truly, very much appreciated, but I can see I didn't quite phrase my words well and I'm now feeling a mite foolish. I really just meant that given I'd been missing from here for quite a while I hoped it wouldn't be seen as a 'look what I've made' post - especially as it was all in wood  :o .


Ramon....not at all...  All I meant is I'm glad you posted.

Dave
Title: Re: 'WIDE A WAKE' a steam launch tale
Post by: Robert Hornby on December 21, 2013, 12:41:08 AM
Ramon, I now feel quite a fraud as I am planning to make my boat hull in fibreglass. In my defence I do not have your wood working skills and very little wood working equipment/tools. I would dearly love to have my hull like yours, what a masterpiece, but bearing in mind my prototype has smooth sides rather than clinker and none of the glass will be visible it will have to do. I am really looking forward to the ‘fitting out’ of your boat as I am sure I will learn plenty.
Again congratulations on your build.
Robert
Title: Re: 'WIDE A WAKE' a steam launch tale
Post by: Tennessee Whiskey on December 21, 2013, 12:48:23 AM
Ramon, you must have a heart of gold and an insecure spot the size of Texas. I love what you're doing. I think we're all glad you are back posting and I think everyone is loving what you are showing. Engines were meant to "do something" and you are doing something with them and at a very high standard. If any member here makes a nice part or completes a build we're tickled to share it,  as you should be. now, as we rednecks say; Get on with yo'self boy :lolb:

Whiskey
Title: Re: 'WIDE A WAKE' a steam launch tale
Post by: Don1966 on December 21, 2013, 12:54:56 AM
Ramon your skills are bar none, we are so glad you have taken the time to share your efforts with us. We learn from all of this, with your well documented thread. Thanks you for your continued efforts to share it with us.

Don
Title: Re: 'WIDE A WAKE' a steam launch tale
Post by: Ramon on December 23, 2013, 12:12:34 PM
Hi Guys - Nothing further to report save some very small screws have just arrived which will allow me to finish off the planking at the stem and stern.

Robert - There is nothing wrong in using Fibreglass particularly as your prototype was carvel built. We have a couple of 'open boats' in the boat club which have been fitted out inside with wood 'planks' and 'frames' in areas that are 'seen' and very convincing it is too. That saying - 'All art is an illusion' - springs to mind.
Looks like we are working from opposite ends so to speak - my engine will come last in the process. Though I do have a Double Ten to use it doesn't have any reversing gear. I have this article from ME written by K Harris  on 'Lang' reversing gear which only uses one eccentric  The article is a proposal not a practical description of something previously made - anyone have any practical knowledge of this gear? I'm thinking about modifying the 'ten' and will try to fit this type of gear.

'Whiskey' - Sue says you  'Have it in one'  ;)  - thanks for those sage thoughts,

and Don - Thank you for your thoughts too.

Back soon with some info on tackling that boiler (I can't actually begin until I can get together with the club inspector to discuss the work planned so that will be a week or three as yet!)

Seasons greetings to all

regards - Ramon
Title: Re: 'WIDE A WAKE' a steam launch tale
Post by: steamer on December 23, 2013, 12:20:43 PM
Hi Ramon,

A reversion link with one eccentric evokes thought of "radial" valve gear...does it have a slotted link...or a swinging link?

Sounds interesting!


Dave
Title: Re: 'WIDE A WAKE' a steam launch tale
Post by: Ramon on December 23, 2013, 06:28:34 PM
Hi Dave, I've been looking all over for the copy of this article - I was hoping I might find it with a set of instructions for a plastic model that I have totally misplaced  ::) No so, so gawd knows where they are.

Anyway, found it where I'd put it which is not were it should be but that's par for the course these days.

I've just realised that it was published in the same month and year as the Wide A Wake was - there's coincidence for you.

I'm not sure if I'm allowed to put a copy up here but if it is I'll do it later.
It appears that the link is connected to the eccentric strap in two places - the valve rod itself being moved by the weighshaft

My thoughts - at the moment and subject to change no doubt  - are to replace the two cylinders with a fabricated cast iron block and work from there but we shall see.

Let me know if it's okay to post the original article

Regards - Ramon
Title: Re: 'WIDE A WAKE' a steam launch tale
Post by: ths on December 23, 2013, 08:07:17 PM
Have you an issue number for that article Ramon? All the best for the season!

Hugh.
Title: Re: 'WIDE A WAKE' a steam launch tale
Post by: Jasonb on December 23, 2013, 08:13:26 PM
3435, Vol 138, 1972
Title: Re: 'WIDE A WAKE' a steam launch tale
Post by: Ramon on December 23, 2013, 08:53:33 PM
Hi Hugh - Yes it was February 1972 page 175 - not sure which Feb issue though.

Just had a PM from Jo regarding copyright - seems it 'may' be okay to use part of the article as a reference so here's the diagram from the article Dave...

(https://lh6.googleusercontent.com/-lPzSta_0Tbg/UrigFaP4CjI/AAAAAAAAIPI/KrzXvvvJlhg/s800/Lang%2520Gear%252001.jpg)

As previously mentioned it was written by KN Harris and featured in Model Engineer date as above

I think I see it that the triangular link keeps the link in position relative to the eccentric movement, the weigh-shaft moving the valve rod to either side of point G. I have a feeling there is a small commercial engine fitted with something similar if not the same.

Ah! I see that Jason has just beaten me to it again - Thanks Jason

In the text KN suggests making link 'd' adjustable but given the size it might be better to make some temp links with varying spacing before finalising the part.

Regards - Ramon
Title: Re: 'WIDE A WAKE' a steam launch tale
Post by: steamer on December 24, 2013, 01:17:57 AM
Looks like a hybrid of a few different styles....Walschaerts , Stevenson, and radial ( Joy)

Cool!   Very interesting!

Is the lead constant like a radial system?........haven't let this one roll around in my head yet..... 8)

Dave
Title: Re: 'WIDE A WAKE' a steam launch tale
Post by: Ramon on January 16, 2014, 09:17:53 PM
Hi Guys
Just a small update to say that after many years of knowing it had to be done I finally bit the bullet and began to take the boiler apart. As previously mentioned I made this in 1972 with very little knowledge of what was actually required. A leaky tube prevented any form of pressure test taking place so it has sat as an ornament for quite some time  ::)

With the cost of a new piece of tube at £90.00 :o I thought that it's at least worth a try to reclaim this piece so this is the next stage in WaW's build. If I can successfully rebuild this then I can go ahead and fit out the inside. If not it's a complete new boiler .

So this is the last pic of it as it was.. spot the deliberate mistake on that water gauge :embarassed:
(https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-ceCG65xuP90/UtZyCMjcW4I/AAAAAAAAIbQ/nIXJ_ZXh8J0/s912/DSCF3814.JPG)

Back to the bare bones..
(https://lh5.googleusercontent.com/-oCOK053PH9o/UtZxypLY1bI/AAAAAAAAIa0/WuxEDCB9TO8/s912/DSCF3826.JPG)

The end plates were held captive by inserted rings - once more, indeed twice more, I cringe :embarassed: :embarassed:
(https://lh5.googleusercontent.com/-RXNvm4uLri8/UtZyInWs4aI/AAAAAAAAIbw/dh6VaSPRPzc/s912/DSCF3822.JPG)

First thing to release is the flue tube. I did this by chain drilling arounnd it then cutting through the waste between the holes with a rotary burr
(https://lh4.googleusercontent.com/-2u3GpHd_DRk/UthEQSHiP5I/AAAAAAAAIcs/An6yFypQMz0/s912/DSCF3836.JPG)

I thought that once that front plate is removed the flue could possibly wring and deform the shell so decided to cut the flue tube too. I was surprised to find that the reinforced cut off disc did not clog and cut the copper reasonably well. The power tool got very hot though so I had to do in in four goes.
(https://lh6.googleusercontent.com/-_mApmRmJOss/UthEQTJ0WfI/AAAAAAAAIco/SDmE_K83hKk/s912/DSCF3838.JPG)

Mistake of the day was to turn that bottom support from MDF. Cor what a mess  :o Despite trying to keep it contained on the lathe the woolly dust went just everywhere. It took ages to clean up.
(https://lh6.googleusercontent.com/-tym-YxPMRwo/UthEQZy0F8I/AAAAAAAAIck/97iM6FGySbU/s912/DSCF3845.JPG)

This is the set up I shall use on my friend John's large R/T for taking out those end plates but that won't be until next Wednesday. It's been a long time in coming but at last that first step has been taken

I enquired locally today about the Celcon Thermalite bricks - ten of them. "What's the cost" I asked -"Nine quid" came the reply - gasp "What each" :o  "No for the lot" Phewww

I'll get them next week and try flanging the new end plates which will be a first for me.

Back soon then

Regards - Ramon
Title: Re: 'WIDE A WAKE' a steam launch tale
Post by: ths on January 17, 2014, 06:16:17 AM
How many ways can you spell 'fun'? Hope you have lots, despite the obvious. I can't spot the water gauge mistake!

Hugh.
Title: Re: 'WIDE A WAKE' a steam launch tale
Post by: Ramon on January 17, 2014, 09:35:04 AM
Hi Hugh - Fun? Hmmm We'll see - cleaning up those ends after milling might not quite be  ;)  The water gauge is far too long. I believe the bottom of the gauge should be above the minimum water level  ::)

Now Guys - a bit of help is sought...
Before I buggrr up the only bit of 12sgw sheet I have a question for those who've been there before - when I cut the end plates for flanging how much do I add on the outer diameter ? - I'd like to finish clean the flanges up at around 3/8 -1/2" long

Many thanks - Ramon
Title: Re: 'WIDE A WAKE' a steam launch tale
Post by: tel on January 17, 2014, 10:07:29 AM
Well, you got more bottle than me, taking on a repair like that.

The parallel portion of the flange should not need to be ore than (say) 5/16" - 3/8" depends a bit on your radius, of course, but I should think 7/16" - 1/2" flanging allowance would be ample.
Title: Re: 'WIDE A WAKE' a steam launch tale
Post by: Jo on January 17, 2014, 10:07:47 AM
Alex Famer recommends that for a 3/8" flange the cutting line for the metal is 7/16" out from the edge of the former.

Jo
Title: Re: 'WIDE A WAKE' a steam launch tale
Post by: Ramon on January 17, 2014, 10:52:37 AM
Thanks Tel and Jo - I have enough to do the job but only just.

It's a case of needs must Tel after all I can only give it a go. It's not much use as it is. My only concern is will I have enough heat. When it was soldered before I used the big bullfinch burner that I still have to get general heat and the solder was run in using Oxy/Acetylene. That said it was done on an open bench - not in a hearth.

My intention is to build a close-ish fitting hearth and infill with broken bits of the thermal brick leaving just one end exposed. Any comments that anyone can add to that will be appreciated as this is the first time I've done anything like this since it was first built.

I'm well versed on silver soldering so no worries there but this is, by my standards, a 'big lump'

Regards - Ramon
Title: Re: 'WIDE A WAKE' a steam launch tale
Post by: zeeprogrammer on January 17, 2014, 11:17:52 AM
Seems well worth it.
That's a nice looking boiler.
I hope to keep tabs on this.
Title: Re: 'WIDE A WAKE' a steam launch tale
Post by: Stuart on January 19, 2014, 08:31:03 PM
Ramon

As you have the thermal blocks when you do the SS place the blocks around it stood on end it's only a small boiler you should have no problem ,the main point is the size of your propane tank a little dumpy one will not cut it you need one about three foot tall , it's all about the evaporation rate . If you can get a regulator the will give 4.5bar better still.

Just take your time and heat it slowly it could take 20 mins to get it up to temp .with the bigger jobs two torches are better with a smaller one to do the actual joint

Best of luck but aim sure you will not need it

Stuart
Title: Re: 'WIDE A WAKE' a steam launch tale
Post by: fcheslop on January 19, 2014, 10:15:24 PM
Hi Ramon, cannot add to what's already been said other than good luck with the salvage job :ThumbsUp:
best wishes
frazer
Title: Re: 'WIDE A WAKE' a steam launch tale
Post by: steamer on January 19, 2014, 10:20:21 PM
Throttle down Ramon!.   I have faith.

Dave
Title: Re: 'WIDE A WAKE' a steam launch tale
Post by: ths on January 20, 2014, 04:04:08 AM
As one who has faith in you Ramon, I'd ignore what Dave said - damn the torpedoes, and throttle up!

Hugh.
Title: Re: 'WIDE A WAKE' a steam launch tale
Post by: steamer on January 20, 2014, 05:32:53 AM
A distinction without much difference...or put another way

Wot Hugh Said!

Dave
Title: Re: 'WIDE A WAKE' a steam launch tale
Post by: Ramon on January 20, 2014, 08:36:59 AM
' Morning Guys, Thanks for your input and comments as usual  :ThumbsUp:

Nice to see you here Carl(Zee) - haven't seen your name lately - hope you are well.

Stuart - thanks for the advice on heating. I have a very big nozzle for the Bullfinch handle - trouble is the handle is the short version so it's a bit alarming to use up close. I also have a Seivert. Yes, the plan is, with the help of my good friend John, to use two burners, that larger Bullfinch one for the general heat and a smaller one for the localised.

As for faith guys well I guess it's in the lap of the gods  ::)

Back soon then with some update on those first attempts at flanging

Regards - Ramon
Title: Re: 'WIDE A WAKE' a steam launch tale
Post by: Stuart on January 20, 2014, 08:47:51 AM
As to flanging anneal often as soon as it resists anneal it, you may need five anneal rounds

Metal formers are the way to go  and do use a backing plate to stop the centre bowing out

One last point I assume you are building flange in ,flux tap in end plate and then drill a1/6 hole in three places ,put in a copper rivet don't worry about not being able to peen it over , the reason is to stop the end falling in when heated, just touch the rivet with the SS to seal

Stuart
Title: Re: 'WIDE A WAKE' a steam launch tale
Post by: Ramon on January 20, 2014, 08:58:27 AM
Thanks Stuart - I was planning on using plywood (I have some very dense stuff) but realised on Saturday I have some 6" steel blanks so will be using that now - not only to form but as a spotting jig too. I had actually thought of using rivets but mainly to ensure alignment of the flue position - that would be a bit of an embarrassment for the end to fall in - oh dear  :o. Thanks for the 'heads up' on the backing plate too, that I hadn't thought about.

I have to go now - Sue insists we go to town - shopping beckons  ::)

regards - Ramon
Title: Re: 'WIDE A WAKE' a steam launch tale
Post by: Ramon on January 21, 2014, 06:32:44 PM
Hi Guys
 
Does anyone know where I can buy the round form ceramic burner material from?

Sandy, if you are reading this I have just purchased a new 54mm elbow so could use a larger dia tube in the lower flue if I use a reducer. I'll have to check this out first with the boiler inspector though.

Thanks - Ramon
Title: Re: 'WIDE A WAKE' a steam launch tale
Post by: Stuart on January 21, 2014, 06:47:48 PM
Ramon

Polly do it for DIY

Quote
Ceramic Burners
Models are available to suit a variety of small models, plus standard rectangular and circular types. Ceramic burner material, jets, etc are also available for DIY construction. Please note that in general these small burners are well suited to miniature locos (e.g. G0 and G1) and small stationary engine boilers, but they are unlikely to generate sufficient heat for passenger hauling locos. Supplied without pipework /jet* unless stated.

Stuart
Title: Re: 'WIDE A WAKE' a steam launch tale
Post by: Ramon on January 21, 2014, 06:55:50 PM
Thanks Stuart, another little item ticked off the list - I'll check out their site.

Ramon
Title: Re: 'WIDE A WAKE' a steam launch tale
Post by: fcheslop on January 21, 2014, 08:27:56 PM
Hi Ramon, just buy a sheet and it is easy to cut by hand with a piercing saw and turns OK if a little messy.
cheers
frazer
Title: Re: 'WIDE A WAKE' a steam launch tale
Post by: Ramon on January 21, 2014, 09:19:31 PM
Hi Frazer,
Thanks for that. I saw the slab in the Polly catalogue earlier. I wondered if it could be cut with a saw - never considered it could be turned though. I'll get it ordered later.

Just got everything ready to take over friend Johns' tomorrow - hopefully it will see the end plates out without to much anxiety.

Regards - Ramon
Title: Re: 'WIDE A WAKE' a steam launch tale
Post by: SandCam on January 21, 2014, 10:30:05 PM
Hi Ramon,

The Poly models ceramic is the type I use it is easily cut to rough shape with a small junior hacksaw and then use a coarse file to round it off.
It is a bit too soft for turning.

I have posted a drawing for you on the other thread... but I see you have found a 54mm bend... it may give you some ideas though.

Best regards.

Sandy. :cheers:
Title: Re: 'WIDE A WAKE' a steam launch tale
Post by: Ramon on January 21, 2014, 11:00:00 PM
Thanks Sandy, that actually seems to me to be a better way than using a bend, giving more heating surface. I'll get this one apart first and have a good chat with the inspector before deciding.

I 'found' tonight a length of 5" diameter copper tube about 15" long. It's been used for ages as a container for small tubes etc - I'd totally forgotten it was there  ::) a load of 5/16 tube as well inside it  ;D

Regards - Ramon
Title: Re: 'WIDE A WAKE' a steam launch tale
Post by: Ramon on January 22, 2014, 08:24:14 PM
Well Guys - it's been a successful day  :D

Got over to John's early and his mill was already set up with the R/T, the table at the bottom of its travel. The boiler only just got underneath the spindle though and fortunately he had some collets to hold the cutter direct in the spindle. As you can see it was close, the cutter had to be put in after positioning the job as it wouldn't clear that ali ring. The fixture worked well despite its flimsy look and no problems occurred.
(https://lh6.googleusercontent.com/-X6Qr6bPY93w/UuALwz82ObI/AAAAAAAAIdU/XP7Xm9ZQHwM/s912/DSCF3867.JPG)

All the initial milling was done on the first end by plunging. Tiring, but a steady approach with a small overlap kept the likely hood of grabbing to a minimum. As can be seen rotary milling was tried but this lead quickly to juddering so the plunge milling was reverted to and the whole end done this way
(https://lh5.googleusercontent.com/-C2f-C_HOVJM/UuALxf-ropI/AAAAAAAAIdY/lzopbu7k5SM/s912/DSCF3870.JPG)

Once that first end was out however the vibration increased some what on the other end leading to much smaller cuts and subsequently much much slower progress. At some point on this second end, in frustration at the slow progress, rotary milling was tried again but this time about .5mm deep and this proved much easier.

Once the ends were out the surplus was gradually milled away 0.2mm at a time. Although the fixture was aligned to the table the top surface was not quite so nor truly round so once the first area cleaned up the remaining prominent areas were slowly taken down paying extreme care not to go into the parent metal
(https://lh5.googleusercontent.com/-YKZlUk6C5pc/UuALxb9XfvI/AAAAAAAAIdc/bXcAtjaU_ys/s912/DSCF3875.JPG)

The whole operation went much better than anticipated  leaving little to clean up by hand - here it is back home on the bench -
(https://lh4.googleusercontent.com/-0OL5puej5cE/UuALz4xgSzI/AAAAAAAAIdk/VGXsZtnHhjs/s912/DSCF3880.JPG)

and a quickly made impromptu fixture rigged up for holding it tight while filing and scraping
(https://lh5.googleusercontent.com/-dXxygW1LcOc/UuAL1Q-TupI/AAAAAAAAIds/G2DwluLi8Po/s912/DSCF3882.JPG)

That's the first stage nearly out of the way - next up is the end plates but that's an outside job - with this miserable wet weather not an ideal time for that at the moment  :(

Sandy - despite ordering that bend I've decided (boiler inspector providing) to go the way you suggest  :ThumbsUp:

Regards - Ramon
Title: Re: 'WIDE A WAKE' a steam launch tale
Post by: b.lindsey on January 22, 2014, 08:45:59 PM
An nice pictorial Ramon and a nice result too from the looks of things. You sure didn't have any extra headroom though for the milling though did you!  Even so it worked out well. You must be pleased also!!

Bill
Title: Re: 'WIDE A WAKE' a steam launch tale
Post by: zeeprogrammer on January 22, 2014, 10:26:27 PM
Pretty cool. And interesting too! Good pics. Left me with things to remember.
Title: Re: 'WIDE A WAKE' a steam launch tale
Post by: SandCam on January 22, 2014, 10:47:55 PM
Hi Ramon,

That was certainly tight under the mill but pleased to see that you got it done ok.

I have attached the remaining drawings to complete the set for the 3 1/2" boiler as they will give you details of the various components.
The boiler as drawn was a commercial product I made when I was trading as ACS Engineering so is an accepted design.

If you copy the design layout for a larger version you will need to do the necessary stress calculations for the required working pressure to satisfy the boiler inspector.
If you need help with this just PM or email me and I will gladly assist.

One other advantage of the flue layout (other than the additonal heated surface area) is that you can easily fit a superheater (should you need one) at the funnel end.
If you extend the flue a little further from the end plate (say 3/16") you can fit a superheater coil to the flue end plate and hold the assembly in place with some small screws through the flue wall... which then allows it to be removed easily for servicing/modification/replacement etc... much easier than trying to fit one through the funnel opening which would restrict the size of the coil somewhat.

Best regards.

Sandy. :cheers:
Title: Re: 'WIDE A WAKE' a steam launch tale
Post by: derekwarner on January 23, 2014, 12:52:42 AM
a little off thread... :censored: ....but about an amazing craftsman & individual .....in young Mr Campbell  :cheers:.............

Here is an example of his work  :hammerbash: from a few years back  :Lol:...but which I am very proud to own...................Derek


Title: Re: 'WIDE A WAKE' a steam launch tale
Post by: sbwhart on January 23, 2014, 06:48:39 AM
Hi Ramon

Is the steam dome brass ?. Only brass is a no no in a boiler due to dezincification action of the water, if it is that will have to come off as well.

Nice work with the boiler, enjoying your engine builds in ME by the way.

Stew
Title: Re: 'WIDE A WAKE' a steam launch tale
Post by: derekwarner on January 23, 2014, 08:04:40 AM
Guys........lets not get too worried here  :facepalm:

1. refer to the nobility table of metals
2. consider the actual application

Dezincification  :Mad: of brass is technically acknowledged........yes but in which life time will it happen?  :old: ..like me  :cheers:  Derek
Title: Re: 'WIDE A WAKE' a steam launch tale
Post by: Stuart on January 23, 2014, 08:21:59 AM
The answere is very quickly on a boiler ithe the heat that accelerates the process

It will turn a pink colour and crumble ,

My stock answere if in doubt consult your boiler inspector

You may get away with small fittings but not an integral part of the boiler

OT to illustrate how quick I used to work at a iron works where the did castings, to dry the moulds they used a coke fed drier brass fitting on the crane ,electrical bushings , crumbled to dust in a month.
At the same works we used chlorine to kill the bug in the cooling towers brass in the metering room lasted days same thing turned pink and crumbled to dust

So it will happen and it can be quick it's the conditions that dictate the speed


To state a fact all boiler bushes ,any fitting silver soldered to the boiler must be bronze , note we are talking about a fully silver soldered copper boiler

Stuart
Title: Re: 'WIDE A WAKE' a steam launch tale
Post by: Jo on January 23, 2014, 08:34:38 AM
A few years ago we had a fitting failure at Guildford when the  :censored: Owner had made his own clack valves on the backhead out of brass: It failed spectacularly thankfully no one was close by or where it was up on the steaming bay they would have had a horrific scalding  :stickpoke:

Jo
Title: Re: 'WIDE A WAKE' a steam launch tale
Post by: Ramon on January 23, 2014, 08:45:45 AM
' Morning guys - thanks for all your input.

Sandy - many thanks for these drawings. I had an email from our inspector last night suggesting the end flange was set in the shell making the funnel emerge from a dry back. First thought is that this would mean I could keep that original brass funnel as the flue tube is 2" id. However on thinking about it a bit more my real concern apart from a considerable reduced water volume would be getting enough heat down into the shell when soldering that end plate so deep inside.  My money then is still on your method and yes I very much would appreciate any help you could give on the stresses involved, etc. I will PM you later today - thank you.

Stew - thanks for your concern and thoughts of safety. If you look back I did mention this very thing in the first post of this thread (4th para).

When I made the boiler I had no idea of de-zincification. This would come much later when I made another much smaller boiler similar to a Yarrow type - no pics I'm afraid. I made this from some brass tubing that was given me by the Chief Engineer on board a rig I worked on. The ends I pressed from some brass sheet I had. It made a lovely and fast steaming boiler for two little oscillators made at the same time. After a year or so I soldered in a new bush and gave it another pressure test  :o Those end plates had become porous the pressure falling off quickly as water seeped through - my first and only experience of what I believe to be this process. I have no idea what quality the brass sheet was - the tubing was superb 'marine' quality but the lesson was learnt.

Derek this is not to decry your input - merely to show that I had experienced first hand what, as said, I believe to be a result of this process.

Going back to the dome in question - I now believe this to be made from gunmetal though my only reason is one of colour. When I stripped it down I rubbed the dome with Scotch-Brite - I'm very confident it isn't 'brass' -  up close it exhibits that pinkish hue of gunmetal/bronze . I have some similar stock under the bench that compares favourably. It's about 2mm thick and has a very substantial solder fillet inside so I would like to keep it as is but it will be the inspector who decides.

I see a couple of posts have just come up but I'll let this stand  :D

Regards - Ramon
Title: Re: 'WIDE A WAKE' a steam launch tale
Post by: Ramon on January 24, 2014, 08:49:30 PM
Hi Guys - just a quick update.

The cleaning up of the ends went very well virtually all traces of solder gone without any detriment to the parent metal. It was then set up to 'cut' the flue top so that when heated the four parts will just drop off - well that's the theory
(https://lh4.googleusercontent.com/-f5GV2hGQicA/UuI07ML5N-I/AAAAAAAAIfM/Nwe04dGvU7U/s912/DSCF3886.JPG)

Couldn't quite get deep enough with this 4mm FC3 so the lower bit was cut by hand with a hacksaw blade. The safety valve bush and the steam valve bush on the dome - both brass - were taken out at the same time
(https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-Il6V5O35n_k/UuI07KusJfI/AAAAAAAAIfI/3q4Bxb4pDHI/s912/DSCF3888.JPG)


The weather was fine and dry today so I decided to have a go at flanging those end plates. Now this is the first time I've done this and I was quite surprised just how easy it was so the pics below are for those in a similar situation and not for those 'grannies' out there  ;). I'm only too aware there are some rather good boiler makers out there - this is definitely not for them. On the other hand, if you've never done it but are hesitating there really isn't anything to be intimidated about.

Each end needed annealing four times to get it round the former - it was also surprising how easy it was to tell the soft state from the point it began to work harden. End result is two nice fitting flanged plates ready for the next phase.

I turned the former from steel with a 3/16 radius and drilled and reamed a 6mm hole in the centre as an aid for setting. This is the plate after the first tapping all round ... I didn't remove the clamps just moving them out of the way and tapping all the way round as you see it clamped to the corner of the bench... I also got to use - for the first time - this lovely little hammer I bought at a TE Rally so many years ago  ::)
(https://lh5.googleusercontent.com/-Z8Ww0LI6eIk/UuLBycdJiYI/AAAAAAAAIf0/N8b7wgNv674/s912/DSCF3891.JPG)

Once formed around the rim, the OD's were cleaned up and the edges trued. The work is just pushed against the face-plate with the tail stock - the paper providing more than sufficient grip for driving against the cutting force of 0.1mm cuts.
(https://lh6.googleusercontent.com/-Q4k5TFkwDl0/UuLBmXf63lI/AAAAAAAAIfk/0iqQw7lStos/s912/DSCF3899.JPG)

And so my very first bit of 'coppersmithing'
(https://lh5.googleusercontent.com/-_QydpioeeMg/UuLB6nqY8aI/AAAAAAAAIgE/j6rlN3ngiPo/s912/DSCF3901.JPG)

I'm not sure if this is actually too tight. I know there should be room for the solder to flow but should this actually be loose? These are just a (very) light tap fit at the moment. Any comments on the fit required would be welcome
(https://lh6.googleusercontent.com/-_UOTsE3NzHo/UuLBrrsNPqI/AAAAAAAAIfs/jTiEPg8AZq8/s912/DSCF3903.JPG)

Well, that's it to date - hope that's not seen as teaching granny but is of interest and use to someone. The next phase is to get the plates machined for the flue and bushes and make some kind of jig for holding the flue and uptake together for soldering. That's on hold for a day or two - it's sailing tomorrow ;)

Regards - Ramon

Title: Re: 'WIDE A WAKE' a steam launch tale
Post by: Stuart on January 25, 2014, 07:20:05 AM
10/10 for that flanging work top job

Yes it soon tells you when it's ready for softening dull thump to a ting


Keep up the good work

Stuart
Title: Re: 'WIDE A WAKE' a steam launch tale
Post by: Jasonb on January 25, 2014, 10:19:00 AM
I think you will find that when you start heating the barrel will expand more than the dia of the flanged plate so you will have enough gap for the solder to flow.

J
Title: Re: 'WIDE A WAKE' a steam launch tale
Post by: Jo on January 25, 2014, 10:33:25 AM
Sounds like you have a nice fit for silver soldering (bigger gaps = more SS = more expense).

Just make sure you get plenty of flux covering the two surfaces that you are joining before you apply any heat and lay bits of silver solder around the joint rather than trying to poke it with a stick, that way as soon as it is up to temperature the solder will flash round whilst the flux is still good.

Jo
Title: Re: 'WIDE A WAKE' a steam launch tale
Post by: Ramon on January 26, 2014, 09:34:37 AM
Thanks Stuart, Jason and Jo,

I have lots of silver solder to choose from Jo this is one time where economic use won't matter  :D

I was taught to Silver Solder at fifteen when I began on the shipyard. Jack, who I was apprenticed to, is now in his eighties and is still as bright as a button. Of course - I'm still 'his boy'  ;).

Regards - Ramon
Title: Re: 'WIDE A WAKE' a steam launch tale
Post by: tel on January 26, 2014, 10:02:52 AM
Quote
I'm not sure if this is actually too tight. I know there should be room for the solder to flow but should this actually be loose? These are just a (very) light tap fit at the moment. Any comments on the fit required would be welcome

File a few shallow notches around the sides of the flange if you have doubts.
Title: Re: 'WIDE A WAKE' a steam launch tale
Post by: fcheslop on January 26, 2014, 01:44:26 PM
Hi Ramon, I find a light push fit works well for me I realise a light push fit is a little vague.
As already mentioned a few small rivets just to stop the ends slipping are a very good idea as I once had a flange plate move on a vertical boiler with 36 fire tubes  :Doh:
When I assemble I flux the parts up as I build her up ready to solder I think Im telling my granny how to suck eggs.
Is this boiler to be a wet back flue??.On the smaller boilers I use those rubber bungs for wine brewing and drill them through the middle
one has a nut and bolt fitted the other has a nut and bolt with a hole right through and a pressure gauge fitting .They are then used to blank the ends of the flue and a leak test can be carried out before its fitted to the boiler.These bungs have been used up to 120psi and surprisingly they have stayed put.Hope that makes sense
cheers
Title: Re: 'WIDE A WAKE' a steam launch tale
Post by: K.B.C on January 26, 2014, 04:40:48 PM
Ramon,
Can I suggest that you do as Frazer suggests and fit copper rivets into holes drilled around the perimeter of the shell.
I use 3/32" rivets after drilling the holes, light C/Sinking the holes, this holds every thing in place and prevents slippage due to expansion when heating, the ends of the rivets can be cut of and filled flush when brazed.
There is nothing worse than having an end plate slip while soldering which can render the whole job aborted, especially after all the work that you have put into the re-furb.

George.
Title: Re: 'WIDE A WAKE' a steam launch tale
Post by: Ramon on January 26, 2014, 07:11:21 PM
Thanks again for your input guys.  :ThumbsUp:

I think that I may have this just a little too tight so will ease it a little more when finally assembling up for soldering.

Yes, I had planned to pop in a few rivets firstly to help alignment of the flue to the vertical line of the boiler and secondly to prevent movement after Frazer mentioned it before - I guess that was a real 'Golly Gosh - look what I have done' moment  eh Frazer? :o I can well imagine how you must have felt so I hope you managed to reclaim it.

Thanks for your tips too George. Re your pic. I see there's no flux on it so it may just be to show the final 'dry run' but as you have the lower plate rivets in place too would you set this up as shown with all those bushes in and both end plates set and solder this all in one heat or would you split that into three of four heats, pickling in between adding the new parts as you go? (Multiple heats is my current plan - one end, flue and bushes first  - then the back end - then the safety valve bush (and the dome if it has to be replaced).

Thanks again
Regards - Ramon

Title: Re: 'WIDE A WAKE' a steam launch tale
Post by: fcheslop on January 26, 2014, 07:29:19 PM
Hi Ramon , I managed to save most of the boiler just lost a few tubes and one flanged plate. The air was definitely blue all part of the learning curve.The boiler was for the 2inch Clayton it was my first model steam engine .Talk about being ambitious
The last boiler I did the bushes first in the barrel then the end plates.I tend to use two grades of solder just cannot remember the new codes but think its C4 then easy flow2.
If its a centre flue boiler I build the flue up and pressure test it before fitting it into the boiler .Thats another lesson learned the hard way :wallbang:
Cheers
Title: Re: 'WIDE A WAKE' a steam launch tale
Post by: K.B.C on January 26, 2014, 08:31:57 PM
Thanks again for your input guys.  :ThumbsUp:

I think that I may have this just a little too tight so will ease it a little more when finally assembling up for soldering.

Yes, I had planned to pop in a few rivets firstly to help alignment of the flue to the vertical line of the boiler and secondly to prevent movement after Frazer mentioned it before - I guess that was a real 'Golly Gosh - look what I have done' moment  eh Frazer? :o I can well imagine how you must have felt so I hope you managed to reclaim it.

Thanks for your tips too George. Re your pic. I see there's no flux on it so it may just be to show the final 'dry run' but as you have the lower plate rivets in place too would you set this up as shown with all those bushes in and both end plates set and solder this all in one heat or would you split that into three of four heats, pickling in between adding the new parts as you go? (Multiple heats is my current plan - one end, flue and bushes first  - then the back end - then the safety valve bush (and the dome if it has to be replaced).

Thanks again
Regards - Ramon

Ramon.
Yes the pics are for a dry run to see that every thing is in place, I then flux every joint and the bushes, I make my flux into a paste  and paint all of the joint to be brazed, set the boiler up in my furnace with heat resiting material to stop the heat traveling to the bottom, as you heat the copper up the flux goes into a liquid state and flows thro' the joints, I braze one end, turn it around when still hot, pack it up and do the other end which was already fluxed and then the bushes, all in the one heat.

When you braze the boiler you will see the condition of the other end and you may have to pickle and then do the other end.

Most important is to hydraulic test the center flue before brazing into the boiler.

This boiler was 3.5" dia x 6" long.

Hope this helps.

George.

Title: Re: 'WIDE A WAKE' a steam launch tale
Post by: Ramon on January 26, 2014, 09:06:07 PM
Thanks George, very helpful pics. What is the soft material ?
The actual act of soldering I'm reasonably well versed with but apart from doing this in 1972 with the help of a work colleague I've not done anything of this size or complexity since. I just want to be sure I get all the parameters right beforehand.

Re yours and Frazers advice on pressure testing the centre flue. Rest assured this won't be overlooked this time as it was the last  ::) - just one tiny hole and no ability to get a test pressure. Strangely enough now the flue's out the offending hole appears impossible to locate.

There's quite a bit to do before getting to grips with any soldering but it shouldn't be that long. First though I need to source some 2-1/2" dia x 12 swg tube for the flue. I've tried (web search) all the usual places but all are 16swg. I see Blackgates do 2-1/4 x 10swg firehole ring tube so that may have to be the alternative. If you know any commercial outlet for a short length (12") other than our usual suppliers I would appreciate the contact details.

Regards - Ramon
Title: Re: 'WIDE A WAKE' a steam launch tale
Post by: Bluechip on January 26, 2014, 09:21:40 PM
Ramon

M-Metals seem to do 2 1/2" x 10 SWG by the inch.

Not sure if it helps or not . Maybe you've spotted it and discounted ??

Dave
Title: Re: 'WIDE A WAKE' a steam launch tale
Post by: Ramon on January 26, 2014, 09:29:06 PM
Thanks Dave - I've not heard of them before and yes they do and yes, you've made my day  ;D

Cheers  :cheers: - Ramon
Title: Re: 'WIDE A WAKE' a steam launch tale
Post by: fcheslop on January 26, 2014, 10:21:25 PM
Hi ,they are just down the road from me and can only say what a great company to deal with.I often pop in for my bits n bobs and they are always wiling to sell just the amounts I need
Cheers
Title: Re: 'WIDE A WAKE' a steam launch tale
Post by: K.B.C on January 26, 2014, 11:28:54 PM
Ramon,
It's a material called " VICUCLAD )  a fire protection board, when in business I used it for fire protecting steel columns and roof beams.
From memory it comes in 8ft x 4ft x 1" thk and what you see is all that I have left of cuttings that were left over from the contracts, it's very soft and easily broken but you can hold a blow lamp to one side and your hand on the other and you don't feel the heat.
The white stuff is Ceramic wool insulation and I am rapidly running out of both materials so I will soon have to find out where to get small quantities, I don't fancy having to buying an 8 x 4 sheet.

I am led to believe that B&Q stock fire bricks which will do the job so you can try them.

George.
Title: Re: 'WIDE A WAKE' a steam launch tale
Post by: Bearcar1 on January 27, 2014, 02:12:36 AM
What BEAUTIFUL work Ramon! BRAVO!


BC1
Jim

Title: Re: 'WIDE A WAKE' a steam launch tale
Post by: Ramon on January 27, 2014, 06:17:40 PM
Thanks George and Frazer,

Sounds like the 'solid'stuff is similar to 'Skamoflex' George, which has similar properties. I have a few flat pieces but it's too valuable to break up so broken Celcon block it is ;)

Jim - nice to hear from you - hope you are well  :ThumbsUp:

No progress today but I did have a 'fie out' of that corner where that forgotten bit of 5" copper  tube was stored. Found some 4 and 6mm dia PB I didn't  know was there along with near 3ft of 5/8 dia. That's the bushes taken care of  ;)  It's amazing what you have that you don't know about  :old:!

M-Metals have confirmed they do have some 2 1/2 X 10swg in stock  ;D

Thanks again Dave.

Regards - Ramon

Ramon
Title: Re: 'WIDE A WAKE' a steam launch tale
Post by: Ramon on January 28, 2014, 06:35:25 PM
Hi Guy's

I don't have anything further to report on this boiler that I have done to date but I do for someone else. Just before going sailing on Saturday I received 'Part 1' of the boiler calculations that Sandy had offered to do for me. Today I received 'Part 2'.  :o

Now Sandy already knows what I feel about his help but I have to 'tell all' that this has gone beyond the call of duty. Laid out in a clear, unambiguous and very professional manner several pages of text show not only the calculations but clearly describe the reasoning behind them. On top of that there are several drawings to compliment the text as well. The thing is, these are not generic copies of something done previously but specifically for this boiler which must have taken some considerable time.

With my questions there's a bit more to Sandy's help than the above alludes to but suffice to say it's been invaluable.

I don't think I need to try tell you how I feel guys, I'm sure you know . Many of you at times have said thank you to me for posting - well it's my turn now.

Sandy - thanks a million :ThumbsUp: :ThumbsUp:

I now have a firm plan to work to so once that material arrives I'll keep you posted of developments.

What a truly great place this forum is  :)


Regards for now - Ramon
Title: Re: 'WIDE A WAKE' a steam launch tale
Post by: steamer on January 28, 2014, 06:54:36 PM
Well....clearly I can't speak for Sandy....but on behalf of the team here on the forum

It's our pleasure. :praise2:

People of this forum...are the forum.

We just try to steer it around the rocks and keep the lights on....so to speak.

Thank you for your contributions....Sandy...and Ramon!....and all the rest who participate.

That's the forum!

Dave
Title: Re: 'WIDE A WAKE' a steam launch tale
Post by: Ramon on February 06, 2014, 08:18:58 PM
Well guys its been a good, and, as it would transpire, not so good day today.  ::)

I went to Norwich to pick up a piece of 2" X 14swg copper tube for the uptake. I had previously phoned about the tube and was assured it was 14 gauge. It comes off the rack - 'That looks a little thin for 14gauge are you sure it's not 16?'  Vernier is produced and wall thickness swiftly measured. 'Well it measures just under 2mm - that's 14gauge. Word accepted and piece cut off and I'm on my way  to a very informative and enlightening afternoon with the club inspector and two other steam enthusiasts meeting at one of the latter's workshop. (All the boiler parts taken in were in a box - the purchased tube still laid in the foot-well).

As was expected Sandy's calcs and design passed muster without a hitch and the inspector okay'd the work done so far so it's now on to getting the flue tube fitted with water tubes and uptake.

Most of the time after was being shown a most impressive twin funnel Admiralty armed tug under construction. About 50 inches long it was fitted with twin Borderer engines and twin dry back scotch boilers to boot the hot gases leading through ducting to the funnels.  The engines are fitted with piston valves which means (as explained to me in this instance - I'm not certain if this applies generally) speed (and reversing) are controlled by one lever - an ideal situation for R/C simplicity of set up. The other thing you may find interesting was that the funnels are oval shaped and as such require oval shaped tops and bases. These had been milled in aluminium on quite a small hand powered mill using a specially made attachment. This was in the form of a moving chuck similar to that used for ornamental turning  and 'driven' by a rotary table. Apparently the time to research, build a wooden test set up and then the attachment itself took best part of a year - I didn't ask how long it took to mill the four parts :o

All too soon it was time to set off home - yep you bloody guessed it - the tube mics up at 1.6mm  ::)  Some vernier eh?  It's too far to take back but it is a pain especially as I could have ordered some 2 x 10swg when I got the 2 1/2  from M-Metals.

A 'couple' of pics ..

I drilled three rivet holes in each end then transferred them to the flanges. By putting one hole dead on centreline I could use this to keep the flange former/drill jig aligned to the top when spotting the holes (the rivet engages with slot in flange former). The plates are to be silver soldered to the inside of the covers to reinforce the un-stayed area
(https://lh4.googleusercontent.com/--PAcnwJ4Q6U/UvNqCbJfijI/AAAAAAAAIiU/QUmK1FD6mMs/s912/DSCF3952.JPG)

Opinion on using the 10swg for the flue was that it may absorb too much heat so a decision to turn it down to '12 swg' (2.64mm) was made.
(https://lh6.googleusercontent.com/-6f58-9_xdHw/UvNqCTdBgfI/AAAAAAAAIiY/lihfMK77xVg/s912/DSCF3959.JPG)
This was quite successful but the one thing that did surprise me was the wear rate of the HSS tool bit. Having checked for taper and adjusted the tailstock I was dead chuffed to find no more that .02 mm taper over 270mm. The next pass that was .15mm taper :o such was the wear rate. I'm not a carbide devotee but I have to say one made a much better job, bringing it back to .02mm :D

This last shot is for prosperity  ;)
This steady was made - must be 25-30 year ago - in anticipation of a 5" gauge loco boiler. That never got made and this has never been used (by me - a friend borrowed it once!) until this morning.
(https://lh5.googleusercontent.com/-VzEEJnFovU0/UvNqFJtpwcI/AAAAAAAAIik/SBdEKLmOLJA/s912/DSCF3962.JPG)

I was told today that ceramic burners used in this manner have a habit of 'whistling' - can anyone comment on that? I was under the impression that they would be quite silent which is, after all, what I was hoping for.

It looks like it's back to turning 10 gauge tubing again - I'll get that ordered tomorrow. Hopefully then, next week will see the soldering of the flue.

In the meantime
Regards from a frustrated - but only mildly mind you  ;) - Ramon
Title: Re: 'WIDE A WAKE' a steam launch tale
Post by: fcheslop on February 06, 2014, 10:22:26 PM
Hi Ramon, I have had the problem of the burner or tube resonating on a small 16mm loco. And believe Cheddar had a prob on one the locos they make/made?.
Never had a problem on a larger boiler although I have only used a blow lamp set up for the larger stuff.
cheers
Title: Re: 'WIDE A WAKE' a steam launch tale
Post by: SandCam on February 06, 2014, 10:23:23 PM
Hi Ramon,

I am pleased to read that all my calcs etc terrified the boiler inspectors into submission :Jester: :mischief: :naughty:

Did you get any pics of the Twin screw Admiralty Tug? I would love to see that.

When you turned the 10swg tube down, did you use any lub... I always use some soluble oil when doing any large areas of copper turning, else it can build up on the tool edge and cause the problem you were having... especially when using HSS... and keep rpm and feed speed low.

Full cream milk is one of the best lubs. for copper, BUT, you need to be very sure you clean up properly afterwards... or the shop takes on a very unpleasant odour  :lolb:

Bit of a raw deal with the 2" x 14swg though... can't these people read a vernier properly? :ShakeHead:... just under 2mm can mean anything from 1.5mm upwards.
I always take a mic or vernier with me when I purchase materials.

As for whistling ceramic burners... yes, it can happen... but only very rarely.

I have only ever had one boiler suffer this problem and it was caused by having the first cross tube too close to the burner... this created an uneven swirling vortex of gasses flowing down the flue on either side of the cross tube spiral... one side being a little faster than the other which, when they rejoined at the uptake, created a harmonic difference between themselves across the uptake entrance... thus causing a very audible whistle.

The solution was to move the burner head back into the burner mounting (which meant a new burner being made)... thus increasing the burner/cross tube spacing.

I have read of other folks having a similar problem with their boilers, and their solution was to provide a method of partially covering the primary air holes in the jet tube... which altered the flow pattern of the incoming air enough to stop the problem... I would imagine in this case that the problem was caused by having sharp edges at the outer edges of the air holes... much like a penny whistle... I believe 'Cheddar Models' provided a sliding bronze ring on some of their boiler burners for this purpose.

I'll have some more stuff to send you in a couple of days or so... more to do with engine steam rates and boiler output relative to RPM etc, which may be of some further use for the installation.

Best regards.

Sandy. :cheers:

Title: Re: 'WIDE A WAKE' a steam launch tale
Post by: Ramon on February 07, 2014, 07:42:31 AM
Morning Guys, thanks for the input. The 'whistling' was mentioned yesterday but as I can see it can be overcome I'm not too worried about it now.
I didn't get any pics of the boat Sandy, but will ask if they mind when I take the flue tube up to be checked.

Yes I have used milk in the past for tapping but didn't fancy it on the lathe - Sue knocked a bottle of cream over in the fridge which drained down the de-icer hole onto the tray over the motor. The effect as you say was somewhat odorous to say the least  ::).

I actually used Tapmatic tapping fluid - a water thin, clear but slightly fume-y cutting fluid that is extremely effective particularly on drilling and especially so on brasses. It worked fine here too - the copper didn't pluck and it didn't appear to build up on the tool but looking at the tool through an eye glass it had not only worn on the front edge but had cratered on the top too.

The weather forecast for tomorrow is bad so we've decided not to go sailing - guess where that times going to be spent :)

I'll look forward to hearing from you soon

Regards - Ramon
Title: Re: 'WIDE A WAKE' a steam launch tale
Post by: Ramon on February 13, 2014, 11:30:27 PM
Hi guys - I'm still waiting for that last bit of tube for the uptake but it should be here tomorrow  ;)

Though it's not been too bad weatherwise today I thought I would wait and have one good soldering session. In the meantime here are a few more pics of progress on the parts.

The CBI (club boiler inspector) said he would prefer to see the water tubes in a spiral such that there are no visible gaps as seen from the end. I confess I couldn't quite get my minds eye to visualise this nor were my attempts to draw it much better so I did a half scale 'test piece' from a scrap of ali tube ....
(https://lh4.googleusercontent.com/-HnIpK-PvSzM/UviGbusFPgI/AAAAAAAAIjk/4fuw1CvCL94/s912/DSCF3991.JPG)

(https://lh5.googleusercontent.com/-ePBhKFHd5CU/UviGbTyTkVI/AAAAAAAAIjg/Yquv8jWsqL8/s912/DSCF3990.JPG)

... which helped focus things a bit better. Twelve tubes is twelve holes but in 180 degrees not 360  :facepalm2:

The test piece was done on the lathe with the milling attachment but this was out of the question for the full size. The mill wasn't up to it either - no head room once the div head was up so a fixture was called for...

This bit of steel has been languishing under the bench for at least fifteen years - I knew it would come in handy  :D
(https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-hPVKKVZ6m8k/UvNqCXPKnzI/AAAAAAAAIic/SOzRg764k40/s912/DSCF3923.JPG)

Lovely free machining stuff too it didn't take long to get the bore out then bring the sides true to the bore. The front was engraved  with twelve divs (in 180) but it dawned that they would be underneath hence the full circle. This is a retrospective pic taken after the job was done.
(https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-93wZ6Ixz_A4/Uv1KKDohjLI/AAAAAAAAIkw/pcH7e3ttftQ/s912/DSCF4011.JPG)

A line was scribed along the tube and aligned with a mark on the fixture and the fixture clamp bolt tightened. This was set against two fixed stops so that after drilling one 6 mm on one side the whole lot could be inverted to drill the other side. (It was done like this to ensure that all burrs were on the inside of the tube.)
(https://lh5.googleusercontent.com/-kKljZE0kWOU/UviGUm_eAQI/AAAAAAAAIjI/wjeDfkZs4D8/s912/DSCF3971.JPG)

It was then turned back over, a stop set with slips for lateral movement (11.5mm) and the line aligned with the next division repeating until all twenty four holes were pre-drilled.
(https://lh6.googleusercontent.com/-6Hqt8ISPs5M/UviGUttzaFI/AAAAAAAAIjE/1Pdsr5f5efU/s912/DSCF3977.JPG)

The whole lot was then repeated using a 3/8 slot drill to bring them to size.
(https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-1gCxGW1Brts/UviGU5rTkjI/AAAAAAAAIjM/ZYUYY6u8cAQ/s912/DSCF3987.JPG)

It might appear a bit long winded but it worked and actually worked well so once again the limitation in height of my old Linley was overcome ;)

I intend to use the same set up to bore out the hole for the uptake tube but as that's got to be turned down to reduce the wall thickness that's on hold till the tube arrives. Anyway here it is so far....
(https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-Ozc0nReQX6c/UviGd2D755I/AAAAAAAAIjs/OobCEvJ5nGU/s912/DSCF3994.JPG)

Another first again - I bought this big face-plate a year or so ago with a particular flywheel in mind but that's still in 'might do land'. This has to be the worst anxiety producing op so far - everything well nipped up -including me ::) machining annealed claggy copper especially just on break through
(https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-RleYsg0Ac7s/UviGfFqaBmI/AAAAAAAAIj0/rufiPvCLsqY/s912/DSCF3999.JPG)

As usual - hope that's of interest - won't be long now before I can get to soldering something.

Regards - Ramon
Title: Re: 'WIDE A WAKE' a steam launch tale
Post by: steamer on February 14, 2014, 12:26:19 AM
Neat twist to that, and nice job with the fixture, that's what it takes sometimes..... A little ingenuity!

Dave
Title: Re: 'WIDE A WAKE' a steam launch tale
Post by: b.lindsey on February 14, 2014, 12:59:04 AM
Nice solution to the mill headroom issue Ramon. Looks like another successful day in the shop. Hoe the soldering session goes just as well for you!!

Bill
Title: Re: 'WIDE A WAKE' a steam launch tale
Post by: Don1966 on February 14, 2014, 01:20:41 AM
That's an amazing piece of work Ramon and I did learn something here so thank you for sharing.

Don
Title: Re: 'WIDE A WAKE' a steam launch tale
Post by: derekwarner on February 14, 2014, 02:30:30 AM
Ramon....

. from an engineering placement point of view....the radial array of the 12 cross tubes appears brilliant
. from a thermal transfer question....will the heat from the gas flame be less effective on the tubes outby [furthest away] from the flame?

Derek
Title: Re: 'WIDE A WAKE' a steam launch tale
Post by: Bezalel on February 14, 2014, 03:59:52 AM
Nice job Ramon
 
Question for my edification; My understanding is that 2 flute slot drills are designed to plunge into solid material, so I am wondering, was there a particular reason you run a pilot hole ahead of the slot drill?
 
 
 
Bez 
Title: Re: 'WIDE A WAKE' a steam launch tale
Post by: Ramon on February 14, 2014, 08:21:39 AM
Hi guys, Thanks for your input - just a quick reply before getting going for the day.

Derek, I'm afraid I don't know. I have done as suggested by the CBI. When I first laid it out (and did a first test piece) I had twelve tubes at 30 degrees to each other which gave two spirals. To me that 'looked right' the hot gases, not just the flame having plenty to work round but it did leave gaps as you looked straight down the flue which is not what CBI Paul recommended. What you now see is a result of the discussion over that first test. As you can see there is just one spiral straight through to the uptake but with the tubes much closer. Again - to me - that does not look as effective as the first but having no experience of this kind of matter I have taken his advice at face value.

Sandy has done me proud again and sent me some more calculations on the steam required and the likely output with ten tubes which just falls short of requirements at 500rpm. Given that the engine will very unlikely be required to do anything more than push this boat along at a very sedate pace I'm hoping that whats been done will be more than sufficient.  One things absolutely for sure - having drilled this pricey bit of tube - pretty or functional - it's going in  ;)

Bez - yes two (and three) flute slot drills are designed to cut on the end but by removing the centre the cutting (plunging) pressure is much reduced. Given the material I wanted to reduce the stresses on the work/set up (as well as  me ::) ) as much as possible.

Regards - Ramon
Title: Re: 'WIDE A WAKE' a steam launch tale
Post by: steamer on February 14, 2014, 09:17:57 AM
Ramon....

. from an engineering placement point of view....the radial array of the 12 cross tubes appears brilliant
. from a thermal transfer question....will the heat from the gas flame be less effective on the tubes outby [furthest away] from the flame?

Derek

Interesting question Derek.   Flue gases don't always behave like they are "envisioned" to...but I'd bet it works better than straight or 90 degrees though....which I can provide absolutely no technical proof on....without a couple of weeks of analysis.   Even then I'd want to test it.

Dave
Title: Re: 'WIDE A WAKE' a steam launch tale
Post by: derekwarner on February 14, 2014, 09:55:54 AM
Guys....one of my  :old: tutors of thermodynamics [in boilers] suggested simplistically.............

1. heat is like an arrow  :Mad:
2. it will be adsorbed ~~~in the first pass
3. little if any of the arrow will continue on past the first point of contact

Adding more arrow  :cussing: :facepalm: / heat in a stationary boiler gas flue will not necessarily assist in any proportionate increase of the outby tubes transfer of energy [heat to water to steam]

...   :Doh: having said this I will naturally accept  :NotWorthy: an opinion from a more qualified person...........Derek
Title: Re: 'WIDE A WAKE' a steam launch tale
Post by: Jasonb on February 14, 2014, 10:24:27 AM
So that would be why the inspector did not want to see any gaps, the arrows of heat would fly straight through the gaps without making any contact.

I would hazard a guess that the gentle spiral gives a better draught than the more turbulent flow that the other pattern Ramon came up with would produce so helping to draw the fire through the flue.

J
Title: Re: 'WIDE A WAKE' a steam launch tale
Post by: Ramon on February 14, 2014, 10:34:17 AM
Thanks for your explanation Derek but I'm afraid I don't have the background to comment further

I would say however that, excluding 'Meccano',  its 58 years since I made my first working (flying) model. Since then I think I can honestly say that I have enjoyed every single moment I have spent making something whatever it may be. Throughout that time however I have tried very hard not to allow the fact that I do not have any academic qualifications in the various subjects tackled to spoil that enjoyment.

That is not to appear dismissive - if this works then great, if it doesn't work so well (unlikely I feel) then it's still a 100% improvement on what it was before setting out but I'm afraid I don't have the mental energy to be concerned whether or not this is not going to work to it's most efficient potential - I'm just getting too old for that  :old:

I would like to add that I hope this thread is not going to be a catalyst for heated (pun intended) debate - it's just about building a boat and rebuilding the boiler  ;)

Regards - Ramon
Title: Re: 'WIDE A WAKE' a steam launch tale
Post by: steamer on February 14, 2014, 10:35:50 AM
So that would be why the inspector did not want to see any gaps, the arrows of heat would fly straight through the gaps without making any contact.

I would hazard a guess that the gentle spiral gives a better draught than the more turbulent flow that the other pattern Ramon came up with would produce so helping to draw the fire through the flue.

J

YUP...that's the picture in my head also...and I agree Derek...you want contact with radiant heat based on line of sight.....Temp difference to the 4th power and all.

It will certainly not promote laminar flow so  from a convective and conductive perspective..it's got to help the heat transfer if you can get the boundary layer scrubbed off.     But the latter forms of heat transfer are really secondary.....

Dave
Title: Re: 'WIDE A WAKE' a steam launch tale
Post by: steamer on February 14, 2014, 10:43:01 AM
Thanks for your explanation Derek but I'm afraid I don't have the background to comment further

I would say however that, excluding 'Meccano',  its 58 years since I made my first working (flying) model. Since then I think I can honestly say that I have enjoyed every single moment I have spent making something whatever it may be. Throughout that time however I have tried very hard not to allow the fact that I do not have any academic qualifications in the various subjects tackled to spoil that enjoyment.

That is not to appear dismissive - if this works then great, if it doesn't work so well (unlikely I feel) then it's still a 100% improvement on what it was before setting out but I'm afraid I don't have the mental energy to be concerned whether or not this is not going to work to it's most efficient potential - I'm just getting too old for that  :old:

I would like to add that I hope this is not going to be a catalyst for heated (pun intended) debate - it's just about building a boat and rebuilding the boiler  ;)

Regards - Ramon

Sorry Ramon...you're right of course!     You see being an engineer is a personality trait...not a profession....we just can't let it be...we poke at it...scribble down numbers.......open up books....ect.....and we end up taking it all too damn seriously....your right Ramon......it's a model ..........if it has a fire under it...it'll push the boat around just fine....Have fun....My apologies.....closing the text book now ::) :ROFL:
Title: Re: 'WIDE A WAKE' a steam launch tale
Post by: Ramon on February 14, 2014, 10:58:39 AM
Apologies simply not required Dave - just saying it as it is.

I love - have always loved - making things. Apart from Sue I guess that's my 'raison d'etre' (is that how you bloody spell that) and I don't think there's anything better than sharing what you've done and helping someone - something that's been a character trait for far too long a time.

I'd love to be able to say I had a better education but I didn't - I haven't done too bad because of it though so I don't beat myself up about it  :D Of course there are times when I think 'I wish I knew more' but I don't have the grey matter left in which to store a whole lot more of new facts - Hell the lot I've got is fast running out :(

Now, I'm back off to that workshop to enjoy myself and practice contentment :)

Ramon
Title: Re: 'WIDE A WAKE' a steam launch tale
Post by: steamer on February 14, 2014, 11:12:12 AM
Now, I'm back off to that workshop to enjoy myself and practice contentment :)





Glad to hear it!.....and thank you for sharing!

Dave
Title: Re: 'WIDE A WAKE' a steam launch tale
Post by: K.B.C on February 14, 2014, 11:52:38 AM
Ramon,
The best education is getting off of your butt and doing it, you will learn more by doing so, just as you are doing.
Remember that our small boilers and engines don't always relate to full size practice but on boilers and pressure vessels they must be tested to the insurance companies, Model club and Societies requirements.

Great job of your boiler making.

George.
Title: Re: 'WIDE A WAKE' a steam launch tale
Post by: Ramon on February 14, 2014, 03:52:26 PM
Thanks George,

Two lengths of tube just arrived  ;D

With fifty knot winds forecast for Norwich tomorrow the boats, and us, are confined to barracks.
Guess it's a day in the workshop then ::)  ;D ;D ;D

Back soon!
Title: Re: 'WIDE A WAKE' a steam launch tale
Post by: SandCam on February 14, 2014, 04:36:44 PM
Hi Guy's,

Derek posted: -
Quote
1. heat is like an arrow 
2. it will be adsorbed ~~~in the first pass
3. little if any of the arrow will continue on past the first point of contact


Theoretically correct Derek, however adsorption is related to surface area of the first point of contact and thermal transfer characteristics of the material ... if this area is small and the amount of heat high then the amount of heat capable of being adsorbed at first point of contact will be altered accordingly... the remaining heat will then pass on to the next point of contact and so on... in reality it is never possible to extract all the applied heat and there are also heat losses to be considered... it is these facts which gives rise to a particular boilers evaporation/conversion constants (be it a model or full size)... the majority of model boilers are around 40 - 50 % efficient and a centre flue arrangement, such as this one, has an evaporation capability of approx 1.5 cu in water per 100 sq in heated surface per minute.

It does get interesting though, albeit a very complex subject.


Ramon,

The spiral suggested by your inspector is correct (my apologies for not making this clear in our previous discusions), I usually arrange for my cross tubes to make one complete turn.
So long as you have the correct tube to tube clearance then you will achieve MAX possible heat extraction.
The other effect of having the tubes in a spiral is to promote a rotation in the gas flow... which speeds up the gas flow at the periphery and promotes a scavenging effect on the flue wall... helping to strip away any boundary layer, which would reduce adsorption.

Nice job getting round the mills spindle height issue.

The only thing I would have done differently would have been to reduce the OD of the cross tubes a small amount at one end... for just enough length to pass through the flue wall and provide the required outside projection.
I would then have drilled straight through both walls using a drill for the reduced end size... followed by opening up the upper end holes to suit the OD of the cross tubes.
This helps when soldering, as it prevents the tubes falling straight through when heated.

You need to think about which end to open up though :facepalm:

A small countersink on the outside of all holes is beneficial in achieving a good solid joint with adequate penetration.

Keep up the good work.

Best regards.

Sandy. :cheers:


Title: Re: 'WIDE A WAKE' a steam launch tale
Post by: Ramon on February 14, 2014, 08:34:01 PM
Hi Sandy - no need for apologies you have done more than one could ask or expect for this build  :ThumbsUp:

It's some relief to hear that both designer and inspector are in agreement  :D and that things are on the right track -  though to get twelve tubes in I had to close the gap between tubes from 2.5 to 2mm so hope that won't be too detrimental.

I like the tip about reducing the diameter on the tube end but as you say it's a bit late now. I have filed shallow grooves across each hole with the corner of a three square file and my intention is to gently swage each tube as it's fluxed and fitted enough to hold it in situ. To maximise heat it's going to have to be done horizontally so I need the tubes to hold enough against its own weight. There's a good chamfer on both sides of each hole so hopefully the solder will flow through the grooves and provide a strong fillet inside and out.

All being well I shall be able to get the uptake turned and fitted to the flue tomorrow ready to solder  :D

Thanks again for the input - it's much appreciated.

Regards - Ramon
Title: Re: 'WIDE A WAKE' a steam launch tale
Post by: Maryak on February 14, 2014, 09:38:54 PM
Interesting question Derek.   Flue gases don't always behave like they are "envisioned" to...but I'd bet it works better than straight or 90 degrees though....which I can provide absolutely no technical proof on....without a couple of weeks of analysis.   Even then I'd want to test it.

Dave

Seems quite clever to me..................A compromise between a torturous path for heat exchange and the imparting of a swirl to the gas which should assist in the creation of induced draft.

Best Regards
Bob
Title: Re: 'WIDE A WAKE' a steam launch tale
Post by: derekwarner on February 16, 2014, 01:14:57 AM
Hullo Ramon........could I restate my original comment.......

"from an engineering placement point of view....the radial array of the 12 cross tubes appears brilliant"  :ThumbsUp:

The only question not explained by later posts with comments from SandCam & others ......is the orientation of the closest water tube [to the flame] nominated?
ie., is this tube in the horizontal plane as per the image below?

BTW...I am a proud owner of a boiler manufactured by the same Sandy of ACS engineering in the year 2005....

Keep us posted with progress........ :cheers: ....Derek

Title: Re: 'WIDE A WAKE' a steam launch tale
Post by: Ramon on February 16, 2014, 09:11:51 AM
Hi Derek,

This is just the test piece stood on the bench to take a pic for the CBI so he could see the layout. At that point the actual orientation to the camera didn't even register.

The first tube in the actual flue is about 5 or so degrees from the horizontal but the last tube is on horizontal. This is to give maximum metal between the uptake joint and the last tube joint. I'm aware no tube should be truly horizontal but I don't see this to be too much of a problem as it's going to be afloat most of the time it's runnning anyway.

I turned the uptake tube yesterday and bored the flue so will post a few pics tonight and you can see what I mean.

Right now the wind has dropped - virtually calm in fact - and the sun is shining too so it doesn't look like best laid plans for a workshop day are going to pan out till much later  - Sue has other ideas ::)

Regards for now - Ramon
Title: Re: 'WIDE A WAKE' a steam launch tale
Post by: vcutajar on February 16, 2014, 12:27:02 PM
Sitting quietly on the sideline and admiring your progress.  Maybe someday I will try my hand at making a boiler.  No inspectors here.

Vince
Title: Re: 'WIDE A WAKE' a steam launch tale
Post by: Ramon on February 16, 2014, 06:36:39 PM
Hi Vince - nice to hear you're looking in  ;)

As promised just a few pics to bring the preparation up to date. I've decided to get everything ready then have one good session soldering the internals. I need a bush for the top of the uptake/funnel joint and I'm promised a piece of PB big enough from a good friend - a very good friend considering the cost of the stuff  :o thanks Ken  :ThumbsUp:

First up was to turn the uptake down to thin the wall a bit then over to the mill to scallop the end. I had an ex works scrap box piece of ali which made a nice long mandrel for turning and prevented any distortion in the vise. As the end radius was not important it was roughed out using a small shell mill then fly-cut to finish...
(https://lh4.googleusercontent.com/-JEl_HwXtszQ/UwDmp_k41VI/AAAAAAAAImI/Lgee9Z9UmRI/s912/DSCF4024.JPG)

That fixture was pressed into service again and proved very rigid for this op. The hole was gradually opened up using a series of cutters - 6mm drill, largest end mill (14mm) then fly-cutters and finally finishing off with a boring head to size...
(https://lh5.googleusercontent.com/-5QU9klN2cJ0/UwDmp9Wd0TI/AAAAAAAAImE/66BIB-8xvjo/s912/DSCF4028.JPG)

I reduced the uptake diameter by .5mm so that it would not fall in during soldering - here's a 'dry run'
(https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-dODQZWcQ4gE/UwDmp8tXDaI/AAAAAAAAImA/wvOT9zvrn_c/s912/DSCF4033.JPG)

That front tube is at an angle of about 10 -15 degrees - not the 5 degrees stated previously.
(https://lh4.googleusercontent.com/-fsZYb2PyyDo/UwDmtceuf5I/AAAAAAAAImQ/t_cFiG7oBFo/s912/DSCF4034.JPG)

And at that angle that rear tube is horizontal which leaves plenty of space between the flue joint and that first tube.
(https://lh4.googleusercontent.com/-AHuwcj5KV34/UwDmvC5PmUI/AAAAAAAAImY/Q1W0kdnHJdQ/s912/DSCF4044.JPG)

I have found a couple of sticks marked with a label as 'Argo-flo' which having tested against Easy-Flo it is a higher melting point so I shall use that for the joint.

That's it for now - hope that answers your concerns on the tube placement Derek.

Regards - Ramon
Title: Re: 'WIDE A WAKE' a steam launch tale
Post by: smfr on February 16, 2014, 06:56:36 PM
Looks very nice, Ramon! I had to look back through the build to understand that this part with the cross pipes is actually horizontal inside the boiler, not vertical, and then the comments about the cross-pipes not being horizontal made more sense!

Simon
Title: Re: 'WIDE A WAKE' a steam launch tale
Post by: Dave Otto on February 16, 2014, 07:55:08 PM
Nice work Ramon,

It's fun watching your new boiler take shape.

Dave
Title: Re: 'WIDE A WAKE' a steam launch tale
Post by: Robert Hornby on February 16, 2014, 10:57:58 PM
Ramon, just beautiful work here. It will be almost a shame to solder it and really a shame that it will not be visible in the finished boiler. But we all know the quality of the work inside (and outside) the boiler.
Excellent, I love it. :ThumbsUp:
Robert
Title: Re: 'WIDE A WAKE' a steam launch tale
Post by: Ramon on February 20, 2014, 10:53:21 PM
Hi Guy's - it's nice to see you here Simon and Vince.

Robert - This is going to be like building a nice complicated balsa wing structure and then making it disappear with a sheet of tissue  ;)

Not much to report but things are progressing slowly. The uptake tube appears to have been successfully soldered to the flue but it did take a lot of heat to get that Arg-Flo to run. It was done in an open hearth though - I can see that it's going to have to be well shielded to retain the heat when the end plates go in.

Next up will be the water tubes so these were expanded at one end to keep them in place on assembly then the other end will be done.

A tapered punch was made but it was obvious on doing the first one that it would seal the gap left for the solder so the punch had four flats filed on which improved matters considerably. A length of steel rod that fitted the id was gripped in the vice to hold the tube.
(https://lh5.googleusercontent.com/-Co1XmFfnpHg/UwZl1Xp1N2I/AAAAAAAAIsE/TdgZQjY19q8/s912/DSCF4049.JPG)
 
The rod was set such that the punch would bottom out on it at the right amount of swelling - crude but as it turned out rather effective .....
(https://lh4.googleusercontent.com/-vwfVz7S7Tao/UwZl1RQ8ylI/AAAAAAAAIsM/W99vLQnSwtg/s912/DSCF4050.JPG)

...and quite precise
(https://lh4.googleusercontent.com/-aSkliGzTj-w/UwZl1UIsExI/AAAAAAAAIsI/n5PRadQKLUc/s912/DSCF4058.JPG)

The end plate reinforcing plates soldered up well too - the plates had silver solder foil placed between and are held with three rivets to stop the plates falling off when the end plates are finally soldered in place. The edges were then consolidated with easy-flo.
(https://lh5.googleusercontent.com/-QnMKm737Vq8/UwZl351TPkI/AAAAAAAAIsU/tzL14lEh1Mk/s912/DSCF4069.JPG)

Some time was also spent in making that test rig - that gauge has been saved for many a year waiting for this moment  :D. The pump too, made around 1975, has never actually been used. As said before once the leaking was apparent it never saw water again. Somewhat surprisingly after having sat static for such a long time I could hear the balls lifting off their seats and once coupled up much to my delight  pumped water immediately. The top ball is not sealing correctly though and the pressure does leak back slightly so some remedial work is needed on that top seat. The keen eyed might also notice the dome is out and the hole aligned on centre.

Friend John 'C' has offered to come over next week and wave the torch over it for me so putting the tubes in will have to wait until then. With then having to wait until I can get to the CBI it's a bit sporadic so it's bushes and stays next however once they are out of the way a small 'infil' project could be on the cards. What's that? a faint whiff of diesel in the air - surely not ;)

Back soon - Ramon
Title: Re: 'WIDE A WAKE' a steam launch tale
Post by: Ramon on February 21, 2014, 07:05:54 PM
Well everything is now ready for the next stages. All the bushes and stays were turned today so until those tubes go in and the flue can be checked it's going to be a while before there's any further development.

On that note the workshop has been cleaned and, to coin a phrase, 'there will now be a short intermission - normal service will be resumed as soon as possible'

During the interlude however refreshments in the form of a small diesel engine will be offered ;)

Back a'fore too long on this guys

Regards - Ramon


Title: Re: 'WIDE A WAKE' a steam launch tale
Post by: Jo on February 21, 2014, 07:07:56 PM
 :ROFL: Just be pleased you don't have the book that is currently in my hands.

I can see many desirable things in my future  :whoohoo:

Jo
Title: Re: 'WIDE A WAKE' a steam launch tale
Post by: Ramon on February 21, 2014, 07:29:45 PM
'Now you just look after that' Jo  ;) - I was promised a look at Ally Pally but as you know I couldn't get there  :( so I'm trusting you not to wear the print off the page by Guildford ;D

I'm not certain if whats about to be described is in the book but it came from the same source  ;) - more later

Ramon
Title: Re: 'WIDE A WAKE' a steam launch tale
Post by: Ramon on March 10, 2014, 08:13:42 PM
Hi Guys, well at last I'm a little further forward on this - not much given the time lag but several things have created delay not least Sue losing her Mum after declining old age and a major fall :( - Obviously the requirements at such a time have taken precedent. 

However, in a snatched moment last week, the tubes were soldered in at last and then, when time allowed, there was the need to make some end caps in order to pressure test it. I used O-rings in the conventional manner at first but the copper was not truly round enough so very little pressure could be attained before water showing. The caps were then recessed to use a secondary O-ring as a washer type seal and though this improved matters the clamp used (one of those hand grip types) proved inadequate with water seeping again but at least showing a better increase in pressure. Last resort was two lengths of studding used when cutting those end plates out and a couple of bars of MS. This did the trick and held the pressure long enough to check everything was watertight on the soldered joints.

This was the nice clean version just before fluxing..
(https://lh5.googleusercontent.com/-2BS-xUbVfxI/UxYulm6o0VI/AAAAAAAAI1I/bRGC6AgAJvc/s912/DSCF4266.JPG)

....and the rather messier one afterwards during pressure test this morning. In hindsight I should have set the flue up so it was able to be rotated so as to keep the water tube being soldered directly on top. As each successive tube was done the solder had a tendency to run off as the tubes were further round. About four tubes could be done before this got a bit hard to control and the whole thing had to be repositioned - not ideal when it was so hot.
(https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-p7G5EW0qF0Q/Ux4GYNTQx0I/AAAAAAAAI3c/4BLN4YgegSI/s912/DSCF4305.JPG)

Although it shows 100psi I did actually take it to twice working pressure - 120psi - but there was still a slight seepage on one end cap hence the slight fall off as the camera was grabbed. I checked the tubes and flue join by laying blue paper hand towel over which will show the even the slightest trace of any water.

None found it was then set in a bucket of hot water and pressure tested with air at 60psi to see if any bubbles emerged which was also a successful test
(https://lh5.googleusercontent.com/-MVHTvHh9YMs/Ux4GYDf2l6I/AAAAAAAAI3g/xlU6u27bQrY/s912/DSCF4309.JPG)

So finally a visit could be arranged to the CBI (Thursday week) for it's inspection and also the flanged plates after which I can get to grips with assembly :D

And though I know it won't be seen I just had to clean up some of that overspill  ::)
(https://lh5.googleusercontent.com/-uXkDxhZYP94/Ux4Ga5tj4VI/AAAAAAAAI3s/XiTV8F3sPas/s912/DSCF4313.JPG)

It's all going well so far but that's going to be it for about a fortnight or so - this is just to let you know it's not been forgot in favour of the Atomatics - talking of which there's time to get back on them tomorrow ;)

Regards - Ramon
Title: Re: 'WIDE A WAKE' a steam launch tale
Post by: Roger B on March 10, 2014, 08:22:26 PM
That's good looking stuff  :ThumbsUp: :ThumbsUp:

I must admit that boilers have always scared me so I have stuck to electrics and internal combustion.  :thinking:
Title: Re: 'WIDE A WAKE' a steam launch tale
Post by: Ramon on March 20, 2014, 06:00:19 PM
Hi Guys - Pleased to report that the flue and end plates passed muster with flying colours today  ;D so now I can go ahead and continue the build. That is going to have to wait a week or two though as there's a lot of running around to do helping Sue in the coming days but it does mean its all back on course.

Regards for now - Ramon
Title: Re: 'WIDE A WAKE' a steam launch tale
Post by: vcutajar on March 20, 2014, 07:06:22 PM
Ramon, just out of curiosity, is that silver solder or soft solder?

Vince
Title: Re: 'WIDE A WAKE' a steam launch tale
Post by: Ramon on March 20, 2014, 07:39:08 PM
Hi Vince - it's silver solder, soft would not be up to the job  :-\ .

Just in case - are you aware that if you soft solder something that then proves inadequate it's not possible to silver solder afterwards without  removing all traces of the soft solder - usually means re-machining  ::)

Hope that's not teaching granny etc  ;)

Ramon
Title: Re: 'WIDE A WAKE' a steam launch tale
Post by: Ramon on March 27, 2014, 01:21:16 PM
Hi Guys - just a small update and a word of caution  ::)

There's not been too much time for workshop activities of late but this morning I did manage to solder in the bushes into the end plates.

Carrying this out first was suggested to me by CBI Paul so that they could be soldered from the inside. All went well, with good penetration from inside to out so now everything is ready for final assembly ......
(https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/--5mwJF0LgtY/UzQeZ7-r0dI/AAAAAAAAJBs/48dBUdpD96A/s912/DSCF4511.JPG)

Another tip offered by Paul was to hold a flat strap across both bush faces to ensure that those too were flat and in line. I used a piece of black MS and turned up a couple of brass screws.
The gauge glass bushes had previously had the fittings screwed home and their radial position marked with a dot punch so that when fitting they are tightening in the right place. A copper washer turned to one thread thickness should see a good seal at the right alignment - well that's the hope anyway  ;)

Pleased to say that everything worked out well :D

Oh Yes, The note of caution ? Well 'don't do this at home folks'

About halfway through the first end the torch - or rather what I thought was the torch - suddenly flared then burst into a ball of flame  enveloping me in an instant but disipating just as quickly :o :o :o  -  As that pungent smell of well singed hair began to permeate the nostrils I realised I'd had an extremely lucky escape - as I had moved the torch away to bring in the solder I had not seen this laying to one side of the hearth.
(https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-oI97wVP_yzo/UzQeZ7M7CRI/AAAAAAAAJBw/ggha9OcyhEc/s912/DSCF4517.JPG)

That was a near new lighter and that hole was pointing directly at me. Sue was not impressed - it would appear that an unanticipated hair cut is now in order  :facepalm2: Could have been a lot worse though I guess.

Hopefully it won't be too long before the rest is tackled.

Back soon - Ramon

Title: Re: 'WIDE A WAKE' a steam launch tale
Post by: Jo on March 27, 2014, 01:28:09 PM
I am pleased you survived in one piece Tug  :ThumbsUp:

That reminds me of the time I was boiler making with he who hath gone  ;D and we were using a blown air torch, my friend Brian was weilding the implement and turned the torch away from the boiler and pointed it directly at the ex standing 8ft away  :naughty: who luckily was wearing safety glasses. He lost his eyebrows/fringe, he didn't have much hair on his head to start with, then even less after his fast blow dry  :lolb: and the "sunburn" all over his face lasted for a few weeks  ;).

Jo
Title: Re: 'WIDE A WAKE' a steam launch tale
Post by: Stuart on March 27, 2014, 02:29:15 PM
I am very glad you survived that incident with just a singing,

I goes to show how quickly things can go south

I used one of those flint strikers ,the ones with the hair pin do da and a cup to ignite the torch, it not quite as good as a lighter but .............

I will bet a pound to a pinch of snuff that Sue will be keeping her eye on you now on


To a more general thing great work on the end plates


Stuart
Title: Re: 'WIDE A WAKE' a steam launch tale
Post by: Don1966 on March 27, 2014, 05:02:29 PM
Nice work Ramon and I am still following your progress. I am glad that the no harm has happen and only hair, which will grow back in time.
My brother had a hose blow off while using the torch years back, only to find that the requlator had failed. He had glasses on so it protected his eyes but like you a sun burn and singed hair. So it also pays to check your regulators regularly.

Don
Title: Re: 'WIDE A WAKE' a steam launch tale
Post by: zeeprogrammer on March 27, 2014, 05:29:31 PM
I'm glad to hear nothing more serious happened.
It's good to post accidents to remind newbies and even the more experienced who may get too routine.

In certain activities, like driving, I have a set of rules. If I wanted to turn but didn't have my turn signal on...I keep going and come back.
I've found (through experience) that as soon as I break a rule...I'll have an accident.
Title: Re: 'WIDE A WAKE' a steam launch tale
Post by: mklotz on March 27, 2014, 05:47:31 PM
It's good to post accidents to remind newbies and even the more experienced who may get too routine.

As long as we're talking safety rules...

Keep pressurized spray cans well away from your torch work area.  If overheated they can vent and often their contents are flammable as are the propellant gases used in them.  Keep them away from electrical welding areas too.  I'm not certain what a sizable current through a can might do but I'm not going to do the experiment.

Use all your plastic gasoline cans as targets.  I had a half-full one stored under the bench.  One day, as I got into the car I smelled gas.  Turns out I had pushed my rolling table under the bench and it had forced the corner of a metal container into the plastic gas can puncturing it just enough to leak.  Fortunately, there are no pilot lights in Garaj Mahal.
Title: Re: 'WIDE A WAKE' a steam launch tale
Post by: Tennessee Whiskey on March 28, 2014, 09:54:22 AM
You are really lucky there Ramon, those lighters can be quite explosive. Back in about 1980 a saw one that was left on the dash of a Ford pick-up in the hot south Georgia sun. About 3 o'clock that afternoon it blew. Looked like a grenade had been pitched in the truck. Glad you came out OK.

Whiskey
Title: Re: 'WIDE A WAKE' a steam launch tale
Post by: Ramon on March 28, 2014, 09:17:24 PM
Guys - I don't want this to turn this into a safety issue thread but you are all so right. In hindsight I consider I had a very near miss indeed. Thank you all for your concern but I am okay.

The lighter was to my right hand side - I moved the torch off the job as I applied the solder and to some extent moved my head downwards toward the work as I did so. It was then the lighter burst, that small hole directing the spray of butane obviously engulfing me in a mini fireball that lasted no more than an instant. What surprised me this morning when I had my haircut was that the hair on the left hand side of my head was quite singed too. I didn't think too much of it afterwards yesterday but having mulled it over 'once or twice' I think I shall act rather more cautiously in future!

Thanks again - next post will be for the ends  ;)

Ramon
Title: Re: 'WIDE A WAKE' a steam launch tale
Post by: Ramon on April 30, 2014, 09:38:31 PM
Hi Guys - It's been a while but I managed to find a slot from the current 'interference factors' to solder in the dome flange and SV bush. Nothing big on the scale of things but I thought you might like to know this project has not been forgotten.

I managed to get this flange in without any more personal mishaps - yep still have my hair  ;) and it went much better than anticipated with lovely fillets inside but at this stage it does look a mess...
(https://lh6.googleusercontent.com/-UKegI7xy-WM/U2E4Lv2mudI/AAAAAAAAJTk/Le6yUfPHDjU/s912/DSCF4734.JPG)

I kept the flange level using a small piece of flat steel - a tip from CBI Paul.
(https://lh6.googleusercontent.com/-Hjx009WzYGg/U2E4LhzG_HI/AAAAAAAAJTo/ttjSskW5VHk/s912/DSCF4737.JPG)

Then, after the usual session in the pickle (sulphuric) and a good wash it was time for a dry run of the final assembly
(https://lh4.googleusercontent.com/-0yJj2WFEdIM/U2E4Lrgw_qI/AAAAAAAAJTg/VSzFnjznBt8/s912/DSCF4741.JPG)

I intend to solder the flue joint first then do the ends as a separate heat - I think it's going to be difficult to clean and flux that joint if the ends are done first.

What with other things going on there's no immediate need to get that done but that said I'd like to get it all finished soon so that I can start on getting the boat fitted out around September.

Regards - Ramon
Title: Re: 'WIDE A WAKE' a steam launch tale
Post by: ths on May 01, 2014, 09:40:56 AM
Nice showing of solder around the flange, and a good tip for holding it there.

Hugh.
Title: Re: 'WIDE A WAKE' a steam launch tale
Post by: b.lindsey on May 01, 2014, 11:35:09 AM
Nice work on the soldering Ramon, given the amount of copper there sucking heat away from the joints, it must have taken a generous amount of heat too!!  It really cleaned up nicely though and is really taking shape now.

Bill
Title: Re: 'WIDE A WAKE' a steam launch tale
Post by: Ramon on May 22, 2014, 09:32:37 PM
Hi guys, due to seemingly endless distractions of late - mainly garden but also having solar panels fitted, taking the opportunity to rewire the cable to the garage, finally plumbing an airline to the bead blaster etc etc etc - and not least currently repairing/renovating/repainting one of my yachts after some kind soul holed it for me (an accident really) I have finally managed to find a gap to finish off the soldering on the boiler.

A few pics then........

I wasn't too sure about getting a good join around the flue tube if I left doing this at the same time as the ends so decided to do this first locating it in it's correct position with the ends and some temporary rivets
(https://lh5.googleusercontent.com/-uGSJnFSH6s0/U3vQDUR4y2I/AAAAAAAAJWE/EGVyTbpvB3Q/s912/DSCF4751.JPG)

After the usual clean up it was pleasing to see a really good fillet all round on the inside so it was press ahead to get the ends in.
Friend John(C) came over to help with the heating and it went much better than anticipated - again no personal disasters but it got bloody hot mind  ;) The Celcon bricks certainly retained the heat and despite thinking it might have to be packed with small pieces of insulation that proved unneccessary. It does look such a mess at this stage though eh?
(https://lh4.googleusercontent.com/-mibo3-FzBHY/U3vQJeZrz1I/AAAAAAAAJWM/NgqjdWe9hA0/s912/DSCF4756.JPG)

A good soak in the pickle and it was ready for the (hopefully) final clean up.
(https://lh6.googleusercontent.com/-UOLqpSImvXw/U3vQK1vzu_I/AAAAAAAAJWY/-eDPNFQEOYo/s912/DSCF4759.JPG)

(https://lh5.googleusercontent.com/-yo7iYG_0Mc4/U3vQLeoQ8AI/AAAAAAAAJWc/jZU797__c_g/s912/DSCF4764.JPG)

The stays were filed to a uniform 'protrusion' and as much of that surplus solder removed as possible
(https://lh5.googleusercontent.com/-elo0jPTNSnc/U3vQOtJvNhI/AAAAAAAAJWk/RgMRR5WL708/s912/DSCF4770.JPG)

(https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-iqrVZA8iYJ4/U3vQP0UkW5I/AAAAAAAAJWs/jsxhczA8o7M/s912/DSCF4773.JPG)

From the image it looks as if there are gaps around the top near the flanged plates but this is shadow - there is a really good fillet just inside that edge. The only minor doubt I have is that a couple of the stays may show a leak - it was difficult to get the heat localised onto the stay itself so the solder may have not taken. They all 'look' okay but only a pressure test will reveal all

Upon checking the funnel and dome alignment, despite setting the dome flange level before soldering there was still a visible discrepancy - well visible to my eye that is ;). I'm afraid I can't live with that kind of situation so the only option was to reface the dome flange to the funnel vertical - problem was how to hold it securely without distorting it to re-machine it.

'Neccessity being the mother' etc two thin parallels were located in the outer Tee Slots on the mill and sloped outwards to provide a wide 'vee block'. It was neccessary to further pack these out with some thin packing so as to lift the boiler just clear of the table so that clamps could be used inside the flu at each end and a sheet of copy paper was inserted to help improve the grip. With a brand new razor sharp 6mm FC3 cutter the flange was trued using 5mm step over cuts taking no more than 0.025mm depth at a time. Once cleaned up the cuts were then applied in the opposite axis at the same setting to give a very flat surface. The safety valve seat and top of the flue were also done at the same time.
(https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-my0ie_NsgeY/U3zgOLKSMQI/AAAAAAAAJXM/8bdLsneVMwk/s912/DSCF4774.JPG)

(https://lh4.googleusercontent.com/-7enQ2gVkLcY/U3zgOMqPd6I/AAAAAAAAJXY/Fr6rw42nXLg/s912/DSCF4778.JPG)

Job done the anxiety levels returned to normal - Phew  ;D

Next up is to make the neccessary plugs and an inlet fitting and get it tested for leaks but that won't be until that yacht is back on the water  ;)

Regards for now - Ramon
Title: Re: 'WIDE A WAKE' a steam launch tale
Post by: AussieJimG on May 22, 2014, 10:41:35 PM
A very ingenious Vee block. And a fine outcome.

Jim
Title: Re: 'WIDE A WAKE' a steam launch tale
Post by: b.lindsey on May 23, 2014, 12:04:17 AM
Still following along Ramon...very impressive work too!!

Bill
Title: Re: 'WIDE A WAKE' a steam launch tale
Post by: Don1966 on May 23, 2014, 01:08:16 AM
Ramon that is a very impressive bit of work. That setup on the mill is the cats mew. I like......... :praise2:


 :popcorn:
Don
Title: Re: 'WIDE A WAKE' a steam launch tale
Post by: steamer on May 23, 2014, 09:32:42 AM
That's coming along great Ramon!

Dave
Title: Re: 'WIDE A WAKE' a steam launch tale
Post by: Roger B on May 25, 2014, 07:51:06 PM
That's an impressive piece of work  :ThumbsUp:  :ThumbsUp: Fingers crossed for the hydraulic test.
Title: Re: 'WIDE A WAKE' a steam launch tale
Post by: Ramon on June 24, 2014, 10:19:07 PM
Not much to report guys infact only one pic but it is a big step.

I finally made all the plugs yesterday and after making a syringe to fill it, pressure tested it to twice working pressure without any leaking apart from some seeping around the dome flange - it was dropping about 5psi in 5-6 mins. I felt the perhaps the 'O' ring groove was a tad too deep so took the dome off to skim the face to give more contact only to find I hadn't fitted the ring  ::) I was well chuffed to think that that metal to metal face was holding that well. With a ring fitted and the bolts just nipped sufficiently I retested to 1 1/2 times WP (90 psi) and left it at that for just over two hours - it dropped about 2 psi over that time

(https://lh4.googleusercontent.com/-xbE9WBXvfVg/U6m0OcGtkqI/AAAAAAAAJeQ/lmOKjiGPX5k/s912/DSCF4906.JPG)

I'll get the proper test done in a couple of weeks or so and then start to add the fittings and cladding as well as making the burner ready for picking up back on the launch around September time.

I am well pleased with this result - when I first considered pulling it apart I really wasn't that hopeful that it would actually work out - just goes to show that despite reservations some things really are worth trying.

Regards - Ramon
Title: Re: 'WIDE A WAKE' a steam launch tale
Post by: Don1966 on June 24, 2014, 11:10:40 PM
Ramon I am glad to see that you efforts have paided off and you have good results. It was great to follow along through the whole process. I think we all learned quiet a bit with you.Thanks for taking the time to post it.

Don
Title: Re: 'WIDE A WAKE' a steam launch tale
Post by: b.lindsey on June 25, 2014, 12:17:16 AM
glad to see the update Ramon, and congratulations on a successful test!!

Bill
Title: Re: 'WIDE A WAKE' a steam launch tale
Post by: Robert Hornby on June 25, 2014, 12:22:38 AM
Well done Ramon, I am following closely and comparing yours and my boiler builds mine seems a bit 'ad hock' compared to yours. I love the water pump you are using for the pressure test, will you be using this for the launch also? Do you have drawings for it? if so I would very much like to see them if you you would be so kind.
I have put mine aside for a week or two as I deal with a couple of recalcitrant Stirling engines.
Robert
Title: Re: 'WIDE A WAKE' a steam launch tale
Post by: derekwarner on June 25, 2014, 02:35:24 AM
 :facepalm: "left it at that for just over two hours - it dropped about 2 psi over that time"

Ramon.......I suggest that 2 PSI is not any form of leakage or external bypass, but the natural decompression due to a miniscule amount of entrapped air within the water...congratulations  :cheers: ....Derek
Title: Re: 'WIDE A WAKE' a steam launch tale
Post by: vcutajar on June 25, 2014, 05:01:10 AM
Good progress.

Vince
Title: Re: 'WIDE A WAKE' a steam launch tale
Post by: Stuart on June 25, 2014, 07:37:33 AM
Well done with the boiler, it's always a good with no leaks

That pressure drop the first test is down to the fully annealed copper giving nothing to worry about

Let be fair you have annealed that copper pretty well during the build it's a well known thing

Just do the test a few times up to the SWP and I think you will find it will stabilise

A word of dire warning do not do a boiler test outside at this time of year and leave it pressurised the heat from to sun will expand the water and destroy the boiler , it's ok when the safety valve is in it will control the rise but now you have a seal vessel

If you read the old timers methods they used to test the boiler by haveing a pressure gauge fitted and gently warm the boiler with a meths lamp to cause the expansion thus the pressure rise

Stuart
Title: Re: 'WIDE A WAKE' a steam launch tale
Post by: K.B.C on June 25, 2014, 09:37:16 AM
Well done with the boiler, it's always a good with no leaks

That pressure drop the first test is down to the fully annealed copper giving nothing to worry about

Let be fair you have annealed that copper pretty well during the build it's a well known thing

Just do the test a few times up to the SWP and I think you will find it will stabilise

A word of dire warning do not do a boiler test outside at this time of year and leave it pressurised the heat from to sun will expand the water and destroy the boiler , it's ok when the safety valve is in it will control the rise but now you have a seal vessel

If you read the old timers methods they used to test the boiler by haveing a pressure gauge fitted and gently warm the boiler with a meths lamp to cause the expansion thus the pressure rise

Stuart

Stuart,

Sound advice.
Many times before I made  test gear I used the old timer's method of putting a gauge on the boiler and gently heating with a blow lamp bringing the heat on and off  to bring it up to pressure, one had to be careful as the pressure rose to near W.P. a little too much heat and the pressure whips up dramatically.

Ramon,
What a beautiful Wide Awake hull, Mick  would have been so pleased to see it and your boiler re-furb has come out great, well done.

George.
Title: Re: 'WIDE A WAKE' a steam launch tale
Post by: Ramon on June 25, 2014, 08:10:17 PM
Hi Guys - thanks for all the kind comments especially in light of the lack of input on my part this last month or so. Sharing this hobby with two others certainly makes for full days at times that's for sure - for the most part I enjoy myself immensely but it can get a bit on top of you 'time-wise' at times when there still seems something left of the day but tiredness takes it's hold.

Robert - the pump was one I made when I did the boiler all those years ago and was intended for the boat. Though a copy of any basic pump it was to my own layout and it works well enough. The balls rest on O ring seats that just hold in place with friction - extremely good sealing! I don't have any drawings as such but I will take the dimensions for you.

Derek - thanks for the explanation - with absolutely no water present anywhere I assumed it would be due to 'settling' or lower ambient temperature

It will be a couple of weeks or so before I can get it officially tested and I have some more workshop improvements on the cards  which I'd like to do first but I really do intend to progress this now and have this ready for the water next spring/summer

Thanks again - as always much appreciated

Regards - Ramon
Title: Re: 'WIDE A WAKE' a steam launch tale
Post by: Ramon on July 20, 2014, 12:00:06 AM
Hi guys, well at last those workshop improvements have come to an end so I've been able to pick this up again. I have not yet had it tested officially but that should be the week after next.

I've been thinking about the burner and the need for a nice lump of brass to make the main body. I do have a good piece that's been continuously saved for something special (which will probably never occur ::) ) but its rather large in diameter and would be a real waste to turn mainly into swarf. I was lucky enough to find a piece of bronze at Guildford for a fiver which looked as if it would do - even had a good hole in it - but alas it was just a tad too big (the hole). So needs must and I cut three discs from another piece of 1/4" sheet brass I've had for years and silver soldered them together after rough boring.....

(https://lh4.googleusercontent.com/-eKnN6rK1JFA/U8rs1YP4jXI/AAAAAAAAJnU/fJoCRyTehA4/s912/DSCF4990.JPG)

(https://lh6.googleusercontent.com/-HbGPu4mhQXQ/U8qharDRRvI/AAAAAAAAJlY/y8GiQV6d8m0/s912/DSCF4997.JPG)

(https://lh5.googleusercontent.com/-atuU4dh4AEQ/U8qhamg8U9I/AAAAAAAAJlg/-ZjDkeRpiE0/s912/DSCF5000.JPG)

The step in the ID's was to give the solder something to 'fillet' on and the centre pops were to help raise the plates apart sufficient to allow the solder to flow through. As you can see I got a bit carried away and did both sides of the outer one  ::) A short length of 1.5 brazing wire kept them in line.

It turned up okay despite the annealing and produced a ring from which to continue
(https://lh6.googleusercontent.com/-ELLUQmEWA4U/U8qhaijhQbI/AAAAAAAAJlc/1H-W2fc9k_Y/s912/DSCF5004.JPG)

Next up was the mixing chamber which again was made from sheet brass (16 swg) and finally those GT Rolls, made oh so long ago, got to do their thing for real  ;D
(https://lh4.googleusercontent.com/-OMddZJAQy88/U8qhexNmjzI/AAAAAAAAJlo/Bt5DVVGcAy8/s912/DSCF5007.JPG)

First one came out slightly too large on diameter so an attempt to turn it was made. It quickly became apparent it was not running true moving in the chuck possibly so a decision was made to do another .....
(https://lh5.googleusercontent.com/-gSPKJKBM7gw/U8rOzfHxxeI/AAAAAAAAJms/iUxV22P_EYg/s912/DSCF5029.JPG)

This time - taking more care to true it in the chuck using a tool to 'mark' the high spot it suddenly picked up and deposited itself in the back of the lathe with a loud bang. After retrieving it and quickly coming to the conclusion that this too would not be suitable either it then went on a further journey through the open door faster than a Mig 25 Foxbat on full reheat. Why 'bless my soul' I thought (yeah you bet  ;D)  I'll be rather good at this rolling lark if this keeps up  ::)
(https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-JguCveS4KDo/U8rOzvCWPuI/AAAAAAAAJmw/K-3R_ZTgwCE/s912/DSCF5036.JPG)

Any way third time lucky and the makings were there..
(https://lh6.googleusercontent.com/-V6RkX4eGnhs/U8qhjDwPY3I/AAAAAAAAJl0/BYfBIc_AzAU/s912/DSCF5008.JPG)

.. and a few hours later it was ready to try
(https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-39VGvOBZB1Y/U8qhjNbkR9I/AAAAAAAAJl4/sjhx5_sl6Ss/s912/DSCF5010.JPG)


Now this is the first time I have had anything to do with a burner of this type so have no idea what it should actually burn like.
It's to Sandy's design throughout except the jet - Sandy suggests a .3 hole but I only had a .35. It burnt with a long soft yellow flame so I assume not enough primary air or too big a jet. Not having a smaller drill (some .2mm and .3mm now on order) I popped the jet in its collet, ran the lathe backwards and burnished the face closing the hole somewhat.
(https://lh5.googleusercontent.com/-j0244AiyQ_8/U8qhlpnQKvI/AAAAAAAAJmA/ibmy3T0HV0Y/s912/DSCF5018.JPG)

Though the size of this hole is now unknown the flame intensified - the ceramic began to get red on all the high points - and though still yellow the length of the yellow flame reduced considerably
(https://lh6.googleusercontent.com/-HH3M8txkGEU/U8qhpCezTYI/AAAAAAAAJmM/a7zWW5i4VWo/s912/DSCF5020.JPG)

(https://lh4.googleusercontent.com/-fJu6IJVOl9I/U8qhpA9pBFI/AAAAAAAAJmQ/h-TjSTxkf00/s912/DSCF5023.JPG)

As I'm completely in the dark on this type of burner any help anyone (Sandy?) can shed to improve this (if you feel it can or should be improved that is) would be appreciated.
My plan is to make new jets at .2mm and .3mm as soon as the drills arrive and test them before carrying out any mods to the primary air holes or rest of the burner.

Anyway this is the latest stage - fittings next  ;)
(https://lh6.googleusercontent.com/-joC5I0i9IXg/U8rOzhDJLoI/AAAAAAAAJm0/LY8n0gYchmk/s912/DSCF5040.JPG)

Hope this small step forwards is still of interest

Regards - Ramon

PS Robert - if you read this I have just realised I have forgotten to measure that hand pump for you - tomorrow I'm out for most of the day but will do it as soon as I can - I've even made a note so I don't forget again  :old: .
Title: Re: 'WIDE A WAKE' a steam launch tale
Post by: smfr on July 20, 2014, 12:24:08 AM
Hope this small step forwards is still of interest

Are you kidding?  ;D Every one of your build posts is full of interest!

Simon
Title: Re: 'WIDE A WAKE' a steam launch tale
Post by: b.lindsey on July 20, 2014, 01:51:57 AM
Nice to see this update Ramon. The burner looks good, but I would agree, the yellow flame still looks somewhat longer than desired. Hopefully the smaller drills will correct that.

Bill
Title: Re: 'WIDE A WAKE' a steam launch tale
Post by: Robert Hornby on July 20, 2014, 07:40:07 AM
Thanks Ramon, and your experience with the burner is taking my interest greatly as I am in the middle of making mine, although my boiler is a vertical type but the principles will be similar.
Robert
Title: Re: 'WIDE A WAKE' a steam launch tale
Post by: K.B.C on July 20, 2014, 12:18:34 PM
Ramon,
Your burner is getting too much air, hence the long flame and it will also give you a very bad head ache as the L.P.G. gases are not burning properly.

If you have a look at pic No 1 of the 1.5" dia burner you will see that I have made an adjustable sleeve in order to get the correct burn, this slides along the main tube to regulate the air.


In pic No 2  for the 2" dia burner I have made the jet holder so that it can slide thro' and be adjustable  to cover the air holes to get the correct burn

Pic No 2 you can see the jet protruding thro' the hole adjusting the air intake and the Ceramic plate glowing nearly white hot.

I hope this helps.

George.
Title: Re: 'WIDE A WAKE' a steam launch tale
Post by: Ramon on July 20, 2014, 06:13:09 PM
Hi Guys - glad you are still hanging on in here  :)

George - this is not to disagree with you but I was surprised to hear you think this is down to too much air. I was under the impression that the yellow flame was due to lack of oxygen for the given jet size/primary air hole size. I will make an adjustable sleeve as you suggest however and try. The jet holder is adjustable but the positioning of this seems to be having very little effect on the flame. Pushed right in it protrudes about half way across the holes which softens the flame slightly and increases the yellow. With the jet well back from the holes the blue intensifies slightly and the yellow reduces more so.

At this stage until I can fit smaller jets I can't do much to reduce the volume of gas flowing but I will try your suggestion and take pics of the results.

Thanks again for looking in

Regards - Ramon
Title: Re: 'WIDE A WAKE' a steam launch tale
Post by: Jasonb on July 20, 2014, 06:27:10 PM
I was thinking the same Ramon, take a bunsen burner and with the hole closed you get the big orange flame, open it up and you get the more concentrated blue flame?

Burner looks good though shame you could not use you bit of brass from the show.

J
Title: Re: 'WIDE A WAKE' a steam launch tale
Post by: Tennessee Whiskey on July 20, 2014, 07:45:15 PM
I think you could just rephrase and say you're not getting enough gas for the amount of air (oxygen). If you light an oxy-act  torch and get that long yellow soot producing flame you either turn up the oxy or turn down the acetylene .
 

Whiskey
Title: Re: 'WIDE A WAKE' a steam launch tale
Post by: K.B.C on July 20, 2014, 08:32:57 PM
Hi Guys - glad you are still hanging on in here  :)

George - this is not to disagree with you but I was surprised to hear you think this is down to too much air. I was under the impression that the yellow flame was due to lack of oxygen for the given jet size/primary air hole size. I will make an adjustable sleeve as you suggest however and try. The jet holder is adjustable but the positioning of this seems to be having very little effect on the flame. Pushed right in it protrudes about half way across the holes which softens the flame slightly and increases the yellow. With the jet well back from the holes the blue intensifies slightly and the yellow reduces more so.

At this stage until I can fit smaller jets I can't do much to reduce the volume of gas flowing but I will try your suggestion and take pics of the results.

Thanks again for looking in

Regards - Ramon




OOP'S

Sorry guys, wrong way round but if you can make the air hole adjustable or the jet movable you can adjust the burn, just like the old Bunsen burners at College.

i have never been able to ascertain what the hole sizes are but I use No 8 jets as stamped on the hex of the jet.

George.
Title: Re: 'WIDE A WAKE' a steam launch tale
Post by: Ramon on July 20, 2014, 09:03:04 PM
Hi Guys - Some good news - things have improved somewhat  :D though not quite as anticipated.

This is before I saw Georges post ....

Okay first off I fitted a slide cover as suggested and pushed the jet forwards leaving the air holes fully open. Fired it up and set the gas to give a flame about 5-6" high - still yellowish and not 'fierce'
(https://lh5.googleusercontent.com/-4SpvA3XLC4E/U8wbXmSqpOI/AAAAAAAAJoI/kaQdYYwsng8/s912/DSCF5041.JPG)

Then I closed off the holes gradually until near closed. As expected this turned the flame much softer and it became very yellow and smoky - as Eric says - lack of oxy
(https://lh6.googleusercontent.com/-Wr0YmJoqvSc/U8wbX0w2lZI/AAAAAAAAJoA/Zrlzy-ZzgeE/s912/DSCF5043.JPG)

Then I pulled the slider back and pulled the jet out as far as it could go. Noticeable difference in sound coming from the jet and a flame very much looking like something that I imagine is required
(https://lh5.googleusercontent.com/-dwZn8NFQHdo/U8wbX90hhMI/AAAAAAAAJoE/HG1vJH995rE/s912/DSCF5044.JPG)

With the lights out the flame pattern could be seen better - the ceramic glowing evenly all over on its high  points
(https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-euhFNhP9gzg/U8wbc8lHsTI/AAAAAAAAJoQ/tRx4d2j-1x0/s912/DSCF5048.JPG)

(https://lh5.googleusercontent.com/-pwUZXYJWQ_w/U8wbe3Cp8qI/AAAAAAAAJoY/9FlQod-lgJo/s912/DSCF5050.JPG)

This looks much more yellow/orange in the image than in reality - the flame is also holding its shape better
(https://lh4.googleusercontent.com/-9kYOxo9ARro/U8wbfjE9FAI/AAAAAAAAJog/kAAIj7cGLGE/s912/DSCF5055.JPG)

Last thing was to hold a steel rod in there to see if the heat was even across the area. I know it looks as if it's on the edge of the flame but that's due to the camera angle - it's actually right across the middle of the flame.
(https://lh4.googleusercontent.com/-RRTudwbihy0/U8wbhKwzLGI/AAAAAAAAJoo/eyb3hPYEuvo/s912/DSCF5057.JPG)

But why would that be like that tonight ? - I had after all tried with the jet pulled right out on the previous attempt  :-\

Well the only thing I can think of at this stage is that tonight I left the burner in it's mounting ring - perhaps that prevented air being drawn in from around the flame? Whatever - I shall still pursue the smaller jet size - it seems to guzzle the gas  ::)

I think however I'm now on the right track so thanks again for interest

Regards - Ramon
Title: Re: 'WIDE A WAKE' a steam launch tale
Post by: K.B.C on July 20, 2014, 09:25:09 PM
Hi Guys - Some good news - things have improved somewhat  :D though not quite as anticipated.

This is before I saw Georges post ....

Okay first off I fitted a slide cover as suggested and pushed the jet forwards leaving the air holes fully open. Fired it up and set the gas to give a flame about 5-6" high - still yellowish and not 'fierce'
(https://lh5.googleusercontent.com/-4SpvA3XLC4E/U8wbXmSqpOI/AAAAAAAAJoI/kaQdYYwsng8/s912/DSCF5041.JPG)

Then I closed off the holes gradually until near closed. As expected this turned the flame much softer and it became very yellow and smoky - as Eric says - lack of oxy
(https://lh6.googleusercontent.com/-Wr0YmJoqvSc/U8wbX0w2lZI/AAAAAAAAJoA/Zrlzy-ZzgeE/s912/DSCF5043.JPG)

Then I pulled the slider back and pulled the jet out as far as it could go. Noticeable difference in sound coming from the jet and a flame very much looking like something that I imagine is required
(https://lh5.googleusercontent.com/-dwZn8NFQHdo/U8wbX90hhMI/AAAAAAAAJoE/HG1vJH995rE/s912/DSCF5044.JPG)

With the lights out the flame pattern could be seen better - the ceramic glowing evenly all over on its high  points
(https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-euhFNhP9gzg/U8wbc8lHsTI/AAAAAAAAJoQ/tRx4d2j-1x0/s912/DSCF5048.JPG)

(https://lh5.googleusercontent.com/-pwUZXYJWQ_w/U8wbe3Cp8qI/AAAAAAAAJoY/9FlQod-lgJo/s912/DSCF5050.JPG)

This looks much more yellow/orange in the image than in reality - the flame is also holding its shape better
(https://lh4.googleusercontent.com/-9kYOxo9ARro/U8wbfjE9FAI/AAAAAAAAJog/kAAIj7cGLGE/s912/DSCF5055.JPG)

Last thing was to hold a steel rod in there to see if the heat was even across the area. I know it looks as if it's on the edge of the flame but that's due to the camera angle - it's actually right across the middle of the flame.
(https://lh4.googleusercontent.com/-RRTudwbihy0/U8wbhKwzLGI/AAAAAAAAJoo/eyb3hPYEuvo/s912/DSCF5057.JPG)

But why would that be like that tonight ? - I had after all tried with the jet pulled right out on the previous attempt  :-\

Well the only thing I can think of at this stage is that tonight I left the burner in it's mounting ring - perhaps that prevented air being drawn in from around the flame? Whatever - I shall still pursue the smaller jet size - it seems to guzzle the gas  ::)

I think however I'm now on the right track so thanks again for interest

Regards - Ramon

Ramon,

PLEASE, PLEASE do not use Silicone fuel tube on your burner, in your first pic  it looks as tho' the tube is about to come off,
use hard fuel lines, copper pipe with soldered joints and nipples.
Working with L.P.G. you must be very careful, using Silicone tubing is a disaster waiting to happen.

Trust me, I have been in close proximity when a silicone tube came adrift and set a work bench on fire badly burning the chap using it.

George.
 
Title: Re: 'WIDE A WAKE' a steam launch tale
Post by: Ramon on July 20, 2014, 09:37:34 PM
Thanks for that George - so keen was I to see what would transpire I did not consider that setting fire to myself was a distinct possibility  :facepalm2: - Hmmm  :thinking: that does seem to be a characteristic of mine  ::) - not thinking ? or setting fire to myself? - well you'll have to decide guys  ;)

Seriously - thanks George

Now, what about that flame then  ;)

Regards - Ramon

Title: Re: 'WIDE A WAKE' a steam launch tale
Post by: K.B.C on July 20, 2014, 10:38:07 PM
Thanks for that George - so keen was I to see what would transpire I did not consider that setting fire to myself was a distinct possibility  :facepalm2: - Hmmm  :thinking: that does seem to be a characteristic of mine  ::) - not thinking ? or setting fire to myself? - well you'll have to decide guys  ;)

Seriously - thanks George

Now, what about that flame then  ;)

Regards - Ramon



Hi Ramon.

Unfortunately I have never made a Ceramic burner to fit inside a fire tube, they have all been for Vertical boilers and Yarrow type boilers.

If you can get a piece of steel rod to glow red you are not far off.

I wouldn't go to a smaller jet as you increase the velocity of the gas and can get blow back .
Just turn the control valve down and don't use so much gas.
I would try and fill the boiler, fit the burner and see how long it takes to boil.

Here are some pics of a Ceramic burner made for a Yarrow boiler.

George.

Title: Re: 'WIDE A WAKE' a steam launch tale
Post by: Maryak on July 21, 2014, 05:25:31 AM
Hi Ramon,

I assume, (makes an ass out of u & me), that in the boiler furnace tube your burner will be mounted at 900 to your test burns in the open. Somehow this seems at odds with the ceramics and may need some kind of forced/induced draft to get the flame more horizontal.

The type of burner shown for a Yarrow boiler may be more appropriate and can be sized to slide into the furnace. This rectangular shaped burner is in many ways similar to a bed of coal on a grate.

Just my 1 bob's worth

Best Regards
Bob
Title: Re: 'WIDE A WAKE' a steam launch tale
Post by: K.B.C on July 21, 2014, 10:45:24 AM
Hi Ramon,

I assume, (makes an ass out of u & me), that in the boiler furnace tube your burner will be mounted at 900 to your test burns in the open. Somehow this seems at odds with the ceramics and may need some kind of forced/induced draft to get the flame more horizontal.

The type of burner shown for a Yarrow boiler may be more appropriate and can be sized to slide into the furnace. This rectangular shaped burner is in many ways similar to a bed of coal on a grate.

Just my 1 bob's worth

Best Regards
Bob


Bob,
These Ceramic burners work very well in Horizontal boilers.
In the U.K. we have a boiler making company ( maccsteam ) who make and sell horizontal and vertical copper boilers.
There is no problem using these Ceramic burners but it does help a bit if the engine exhaust is directed up the chimney ,acting like the blower on a Loco.

On the horizontal boilers that I have made I always use the head from a plumbers blow lamp to fire the boiler.
As you have suggested a flat type Ceramic would work but the firing tube would need to be a very large dia.
The Ceramic block is 1/2 thk and the box needs to be large enough to take the mixing tube which is 3/8" dia with a space between the mixing tube and the underside of the Ceramic block making the O/All height approx 1" and then at least 1/2" from top of Ceramic to the underside of the fire tube, so a very large dia fire tube is required, bearing in mind that the box for the burner needs to be about 1" wide.

Here are some pics of how I fire Horizontal return flue Scotch boilers.

George.

P.S.

What has happened to your steel boiler build ?
Have you had it pressure tested yet ?

Title: Re: 'WIDE A WAKE' a steam launch tale
Post by: Ramon on July 21, 2014, 12:14:20 PM
Hi Bob - thanks for your interest and George for your input.

Please bear in mind that I have no experience with this kind of burner either in vertical or horizontal mode so all comments are of value  :ThumbsUp:.

At this stage though, as I'm sure you would agree, I need to keep closely to Sandy's design to begin with so will make new jets if nothing else but to compare / see how they perform as at the moment, although it now appears to be in the right area, I have no idea of the actual jet size.

Bob - George has explained the background behind this type of burner which as he says has been used in this mode in many boilers. The boiler, with it's spiral array of flue tubes has been designed for it as such and there just is not room to fit a flat type burner of any length anyway. I do intend to induce a draft on start up - parts for a flue extractor fan obtained courtesy of a good friend only last week. The original design called for an inner flue too so that will be fitted along with a steam blower jet directed upwards.

George - I don't want to steam it until it's been given it's first (official) hydraulic test which hopefully will be next week. By then I should have all the fittings made/re-furbished and will be able to set to then to give it a good steam test.

And once more - Thanks again George for bringing the silicone tube to my attention - having thought about it over night I do feel a bit of a silly boy  ::)

Regards - Ramon

PS Robert - PM sent on pump details
Title: Re: 'WIDE A WAKE' a steam launch tale
Post by: strictlybusiness1 on July 21, 2014, 01:19:43 PM
Ramon,

I read your entire post from beginning to end. I'm totally impressed with the craftsmanship displayed in both wood & metal. I great deal of dedication, technical knowledge & perseverance is required to complete projects such as this. I will certainly be following your progress until this project is completed.

Jim Allen (strictlybusiness1)
Title: Re: 'WIDE A WAKE' a steam launch tale
Post by: Maryak on July 21, 2014, 01:42:22 PM

P.S.

What has happened to your steel boiler build ?
Have you had it pressure tested yet ?

George,

Alas, it like all my hobby work is on the back burner and has been since April. My health, our winter and Galina's family problems have conspired to turn me into an armchair modeler. I am hoping for the spring to bring a spring back to my step. Thank God for CAD so I have some engineering challenge each day and keep the brain churning over.

Best Regards
Bob
Title: Re: 'WIDE A WAKE' a steam launch tale
Post by: Ramon on July 21, 2014, 11:27:49 PM
My health, our winter and Galina's family problems have conspired to turn me into an armchair modeler.

Bob - you have my sympathies - to have my workshop time curtailed in such a way is something that would affect me greatly. May your health soon return, your problems resolve and you get a good warm spring - 'hang on in there buddy' :ThumbsUp:

Jim - Well, what can I say? To receive a favourable comment from someone of such obvious talent is a compliment indeed - thank you.

I too have looked at all your postings and can tell you I truly admire your skill, your knowledge and your ability to produce such superb examples of I/C technology. Though I have not responded save for my initial comment I assure you I have read all your responses with a very high degree of respect for your dedication to such a demanding level.
Though I used the word 'enviable' in my post, envy, at any level, is really not one of my characteristics for I am very content with my lot. However to see what you have achieved does bring a high degree of  'I would have loved to have been able to do that'  :)

It's days long gone now but years ago I was involved with high speed R/C boats with a keen interest in the Naviga Triangle event - I had one of the first OPS 60's over here, an awesome motor at the time - but personal circumstances at the time dictated that interest's short life. I had to move on and that was all left behind. I still have a couple of OPS 60's and a new 90 (acquired much later) but it's been a long time since the desire to do anything with them. So whilst I can't pretend to have a deep knowledge of your work I do have an understanding of your aims and a fair appreciation of the engineering skills at your disposal  ;). Thank you again.

Nothing to report today - Sue's on holiday so it was a long beach walk and gardening - I might get a day off tomorrow though ;)

Regards - Ramon

Title: Re: 'WIDE A WAKE' a steam launch tale
Post by: K.B.C on July 22, 2014, 12:27:09 PM

P.S.

What has happened to your steel boiler build ?
Have you had it pressure tested yet ?

George,

Alas, it like all my hobby work is on the back burner and has been since April. My health, our winter and Galina's family problems have conspired to turn me into an armchair modeler. I am hoping for the spring to bring a spring back to my step. Thank God for CAD so I have some engineering challenge each day and keep the brain churning over.

Best Regards
Bob

Bob,
Sorry to hear that you are not quite well and at present an armchair modeler.
I hope that when your summer arrives you will be much better and get on with the boiler.

In the U.K. we are having a great spell of weather , even here in Glasgow the temps are up to 27 deg C which is warm for us and looking good for the games.
This hot weather makes it far to warm for the workshop so I can indulge in my main passion "cycling "
I started when I was 7 years old and at 75 I still manage 2 -3 rides of 30 mls per week, so today with temps at a dull 23 C it's over the hills and far away for me.

Here is a pic of my trusty stead.

Keep well.
George.
Title: Re: 'WIDE A WAKE' a steam launch tale
Post by: SandCam on July 22, 2014, 04:42:03 PM
Hi Guy’s,

Bob,

Sorry to hear you suffering some health issues and family problems, never good in isolation, let alone both together.
I hope the coming warmer spring weather helps you in recovering your health and that the family problems can also be resolved soon.
Hang in there, both of you.

BTW…Too much CAD is bad for your eyesight… you just can’t win.

George,

I am puzzled by your use of the term ‘Blowback’ in relation to high gas velocity.
Can you explain what you are suggesting?

From a burner point of view this term usually relates to the gas/air mix being delivered at a lower velocity than the flame front… hence the flame can burn (blow) back into the mixer chamber, or even right back to the gas jet… not a good idea.

The gas/air velocity being too low usually causes this.


Ramon,

Great to see how far you have got with this build.
I have been keeping an eye on the posts; however, I have deliberately stayed in the background, so to speak, to allow the other guy’s to make suggestions and comments. All of which have been very positive.

1st thing… I agree with George… fit a copper pipe for your gas feed… certainly don’t want to see a fireball with you getting badly hurts.

OK then… It would seem that you have now hit a brick wall with the burner… well; I can assure you that you are not far from it being a good one.

Looking at the last pictures tells me that you have reached the limit of gas air mix and that there is too high a gas content and no way of optimising things.

What to do?   Well: you can turn down the gas valve to reduce the gas content, however this will also reduce the gas velocity, which, in turn, will reduce the amount of air being drawn in via the Venturi holes… so that won’t work very well.

Fit a one size smaller jet… this will reduce the amount of gas but will also increase the gas velocity, which, in turn, will increase the amount of air drawn in through the Venturi holes… leading to a weak mixture… not quite what you need, however, you now have the option to move the gas jet holder closer to the Venturi holes and to partially close off the Venturi holes using the sleeve… a combination of which will allow you to optimise the mixture.
It’s all a bit of a balancing act just like the Venturi /spray bar arrangement on IC engines.
You should aim for a flame, which is a white/pale blue in the centre cone surrounded by a distinct darker blue outer cone… Butane/Propane burns with a slight yellow at the extreme tip.

The slight yellow tinge you can see in the flame some distance from the burner is mostly caused by burning dust and dirt particles in the air.

Your 0.35mm jet is a number 16.

The next size down is a number 12 at 0.3mm. (This is the size I recommend)

Next down is a number 8 at 0.25mm.

Next down is a number 5 at 0.2mm.

The smallest jet is a number 3 at 0.15mm.

You will find that the burner performs slightly differently on a day-to-day basis; this is caused by changes in ambient air pressure and temperature the latter can affect gas canister pressure.
The gas canister will also very in pressure due to content volume and temperature, especially when gas is being drawn off at a fairly high rate.
This will cause the temperature of the canister to fall as the liquid gas is vaporised… leading to reduced pressure.

One of the best ways to eliminate these pressure variations is to fit a constant pressure regulator… these can be purchased for model steam use but can also be made in the workshop… I can Email you some details if you feel the need.

One last observation...
On the burner mounting ring there are some locating screws going into the side wall of the mixer tube... have you sealed the threads using a gas tight sealant?

Hope this helps you on your way.

Best regards.

Sandy.

PS… watched the video of you running your ETA at the show, excellent stuff… bet you are glad it was not a 7” x 8” team racer prop though… they REALLY BITE!!!
Title: Re: 'WIDE A WAKE' a steam launch tale
Post by: Ramon on July 22, 2014, 10:05:59 PM
I'm impressed George, to say the least. As an ex runner whose knees are now totally shot at 70 you are fortunate indeed to be able to exercise so well - long may it continue for you  :ThumbsUp:

Sandy - really pleased to hear from you. I had just begun to think that maybe you weren't feeling too good so it's good to see you back.

I have a little update and a few questions - hopefully not too many ;)

Firstly though, I have followed your design faithfully up until drilling the jet. As the smallest drill I had was a #80 I thought I would try it to see what happened. I'm heartened by your comment that you feel its nearly there and can see the merit of what you suggest so will follow that path closely. Hopefully the .2 and .3mm drills will arrive tomorrow to enable progress on that front.

I'm still considering exactly what type of gas/gas supply to fit. I have been reading about using liquid gas from the tank and vapourising it at the burner to prevent the cooling off effect - I must admit I favour going down this route as to me it seems a practical way of addressing the cooling problem - can you or any one else - George? offer any advice on this method? It seems that another advantage is that Butane as opposed to Butane/Propane mix can be used

Re the screw on the mixing chamber. There is only the one. The fit between the chamber and the mounting ring is a good slip fit - the screw is there mainly to stop it rotating. I had thought about the need to seal it but was not going to until final assembly - would any leakage past this have a significant effect on the flame? The two other screws do not go all the way through the flue tube. They are just to retain it and prevent it too from rotating and locate in recesses drilled halfway through the flue material thickness.  It's mounted vertically today just to see how it looks - is there a preferred way?
(https://lh6.googleusercontent.com/-ZOE6D4uKLXg/U86-4fFmb2I/AAAAAAAAJpc/G0YMm5diJPk/s912/DSCF5068.JPG)

Looking for some info on valves today I came across a long ago filed article on gas burners by Peter Arnot. On the drawing of a similar burner albeit 4.1/2" dia across the mixing chamber he shows a stub of material  to act as a turbulator  in front of the entrance of the mixer tube. Would doing the same be of any benefit?

I particularly wanted to use all the old Stuart Turner fittings - mainly for nostalgic reasons and in keeping with the original so have modified the steam valve and begun to look at the pipework layout. The red tape shows where a tee piece will fit - the tee to the flue 'dryer' and the inline outer end reducing to 1/8 pipe to the whistle.
(https://lh6.googleusercontent.com/-KZswCdob6qY/U86-4jcBkHI/AAAAAAAAJpk/X43fRIC02UA/s912/DSCF5063.JPG)

The original design called for a steam dryer (I don't think it could be considered a superheater!) of a loop of pipe in the funnel but this is the steam dryer I have made this time from 3/16 tube.
(https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-fTireyv5SzI/U86--aIzdbI/AAAAAAAAJps/6T__6o4lR8E/s912/DSCF5074.JPG)

However I'm not sure whether to mount this coil as below in the uptake itself which of course will be in hotter gases....
(https://lh4.googleusercontent.com/-aNulddwN0AE/U86-_-QK7GI/AAAAAAAAJp4/LM-DIZoz1wA/s912/DSCF5076.JPG)

or to mount it the otherway up and inside the funnel - somewhat cooler
(https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-t9XR_MqjZ3k/U86_AB1wrcI/AAAAAAAAJp8/dwNFKP569UA/s912/DSCF5077.JPG)

As it would free the area within the funnel for an inner flue to increase the draft I would prefer the former but my only doubt is whether the end loop would stand up to the heat over time situated as it would be at the bottom of the flue - Any thoughts on this would be appreciated.

Well I think that's about it for tonight - as usual many thanks for your input

Regards - Ramon

PS Nearly forgot - You're right Sandy, that first wince however wasn't a 'bite' but a (well) bent back finger as it locked due to flooding - that actually hurt more long term than the bite which was bad enough and on a 12 x 5 prop too  ::) - I need to get some practice in ;)
Title: Re: 'WIDE A WAKE' a steam launch tale
Post by: K.B.C on July 23, 2014, 09:35:28 PM

George,

I am puzzled by your use of the term ‘Blowback’ in relation to high gas velocity.
Can you explain what you are suggesting?

From a burner point of view this term usually relates to the gas/air mix being delivered at a lower velocity than the flame front… hence the flame can burn (blow) back into the mixer chamber, or even right back to the gas jet… not a good idea.

The gas/air velocity being too low usually causes this.




Sandy

Not only do I puzzle you but I do so to myself regularly.

I have always thought that this blow back that I experienced was do to the velocity of the gas being so high that it ignited below the Ceramic and occasionally pop back thro' the air tube holes.

I will now try experimenting with larger jets and control the flow of gas to the burner to see what happens.
I use at present in a 2.5" dia burner a No 8 Jet and as I am able to adjust the jet holder to position the jet in various position at the air holes to get a steady burn.

My main problem is that nobody at my club G.R.M.B.C is interested in building boilers and engines and those that are interested in steam buy and install, so since my mate who had the same interests as myself, passed away some time ago there is nobody to bounce and discuss ideas with.
As you probably know my club is very interested in Tug and towing, also those long gray pointy boats, so it's good to know that you lurk in the background to keep us right, thanks for yor input.

George.
Title: Re: 'WIDE A WAKE' a steam launch tale
Post by: SandCam on July 23, 2014, 10:41:35 PM
Hi Ramon,

Yes, I am ok myself, thanks for your concern, but have had a rather upsetting family issue to get through so have been away for a while.
I will email you later.

I actually felt the burner was operating quite well apart from the excessive flame length, it just needs a few minor changes to optimise it… certainly the jet appears to be too large but you will soon get that sorted with your smaller drills... I would expect a total flame length of about 4"- 5" at the optimum... the slightly smaller jet should bring this closer.

It will, of course, alter in performance when inside the flu; so you will probably need to adjust it a bit more when installed.

Did you make the current jet? Or is it a modified commercial one?

The reason I ask is that the genuine Calorgas jets are counterbored at 2.6mm dia from the thread side to within 0.025” – 0.030” of the tip so as to form a converging jet… the actual jet hole only passes through the thin tip portion.
I also seal the thread using some gas sealant when fitting it to the jet carrier.

I would think that the 0.3mm (size 12) jet would be about right… you may even get away with a number 8 (0.25mm) as used in the 2” vertical burner (see attached PDF)
An 0.2mm (number 5) would be way too small for your burner/boiler.

No worries about the small clamp screw, I was just concerned that it passed through the mixer chamber wall so could possibly leak gas… as it is, any small leakage around the flange will not be an issue, since this will just be air and will supplement the secondary air slots.

Fitting a small diffuser inside the mixer chamber, in line with the jet tube, may help a little in mixing the gas and air it would certainly do no harm to add one.

I actually fit 2 of them on my 2” dia vertical boiler burners… the first one for just that reason… the second one (furthest from the jet tube) is only there to provide a second mounting point.

I did not add one to your design as it is just a larger version of my standard 3 ½” boiler  centre flu burner and this did not need one… it is, however, a bit smaller in dia than yours, so perhaps I should have included one.

The orientation of the burner is not an issue… just mount it for best access to everything else.

If you do decide to fit one use the spacing from the jet tube as shown on the above PDF… the diffuser height needs to be just above the OD of the jet tube.

Steam drier… I would fit it down the flu, as is your preference, this will be the most effective… the only issue is, as you say, possible early failure due to heat exposure.
If you can use fittings with nuts and olives/cones then replacement would be easily possible should failure occur, however, if your fittings (tee etc) are of the soldering type then I would consider changing to a thin walled Stainless Steel tube for the drier.

The biggest problem will be when bringing the boiler up to steam, or when steam flow is shut off… the flu gasses are going to be of the order of 300deg – 400deg C at that location and, without steam passing through it, a copper tube will deteriorate pretty rapidly… stainless will just sit there without issue.

Fitting an inner funnel liner can be beneficial in increasing gas velocity, which can help strip away boundary layers within the flu, but don’t overdo it… you most certainly don’t need to use a blower or any other form of forced draft… this would just draw excess secondary air through the flu, thus cooling the gasses… gas burners don’t need this… coal fires do.
You can also fit the engine exhaust to pass up between the 2 skins rather than passing it up through the inner… this way you don’t get variable draft but still get a good output of steam from the funnel.

I have no personal experience with using liquid gas… for the simple reason I have not yet found a system that works reliably.
Most fall into the trap of not being able to adequately control the gas pressure, which can quickly get out of control.
Gas pressure needs to be reasonably constant or your air/gas mix will go all over the place, leading to erratic burner performance; which is why I suggested a pressure regulator.
I am not sure if any of these would work adequately for use with liquid gas though... although you may be able to use one on the vaporized gas if you can find a way to keep the temperature above returning to liquid.

I am not really sure if you could fit the necessary vaporising coil to your burner without it being vulnerable to external influences, such as cold air drafts and the heat sinking effect of the main boiler full of water... I would think a different burner style (such as the blowtorch type) would be more suitable on this score.

The only possible place would be a tight coil around the outside of the mixer body; however, I would not be convinced that the temperature there would be constant enough… it would certainly take some time to reach a suitable temperature, let alone a stable one.


70/30 Butane/Propane mix has a vapour pressure of 35.8 psig at 60 deg F (15.5deg C)
100% Butane would only be at 11.6psig at that temperature.

If your burner is set up for 70/30 Butane/Propane then to get the same flow using just 100% Butane would mean increasing it’s temperature to approx 98deg F (36.6deg C)

At 100deg F (37.8deg C) Butane would reach 37.5 psig.

10 deg F more and it would rise to 46.1 psig.

Butane also requires more AIR than the mixed gas.

70/30 Butane/Propane requires approx 23.86 cu ft air per cu ft of gas.

100% Butane will require approx 31.02 cu ft air per cu ft of gas.

NOTE... the above is for the gas state... I am not sure how this relates to the liquid state, other than Butane boils at 32deg F at atmospheric pressure.

So… pressure control is going to be one of your biggest problem.
The other is timing the change over from gas to liquid… get it wrong and you have a bigger problem.
By all means experiment, that’s what it is all about… just be very careful and consider how to control it adequately.

As for the Prop issue and the bent finger… ouch, I hated it when that happened… especially with a razor sharp racing prop… I still have some of the resultant scars... you have my sympathy.

Hope this is of some help.

Best regards.

Sandy.  :cheers:
Title: Re: 'WIDE A WAKE' a steam launch tale
Post by: SandCam on July 23, 2014, 10:55:32 PM

George,

I am puzzled by your use of the term ‘Blowback’ in relation to high gas velocity.
Can you explain what you are suggesting?

From a burner point of view this term usually relates to the gas/air mix being delivered at a lower velocity than the flame front… hence the flame can burn (blow) back into the mixer chamber, or even right back to the gas jet… not a good idea.

The gas/air velocity being too low usually causes this.




Sandy

Not only do I puzzle you but I do so to myself regularly.

I have always thought that this blow back that I experienced was do to the velocity of the gas being so high that it ignited below the Ceramic and occasionally pop back thro' the air tube holes.

I will now try experimenting with larger jets and control the flow of gas to the burner to see what happens.
I use at present in a 2.5" dia burner a No 8 Jet and as I am able to adjust the jet holder to position the jet in various position at the air holes to get a steady burn.

My main problem is that nobody at my club G.R.M.B.C is interested in building boilers and engines and those that are interested in steam buy and install, so since my mate who had the same interests as myself, passed away some time ago there is nobody to bounce and discuss ideas with.
As you probably know my club is very interested in Tug and towing, also those long gray pointy boats, so it's good to know that you lurk in the background to keep us right, thanks for yor input.

George.

Hi George,
 Don't worry, I confuse myself often enough.

I had a feeling that was what you were trying to say and YES I used to think that too until I did a lot more delving into the mysterious world of gas burners.

Thats when I found out about flame front speed and how gas/air delivery speed effected the behaviour.

I am sure you find it somewhat frustrating when you get a problem and can't find anyone at your club interested enough to help.

Remember, you only need to PM me if you need to discuss an issues and I will always be happy to assist where I can.

Keep happy and Good on you for being able to keep your cycling up... I am well past that now for health reasons.

All the best.

Sandy. :old: :cheers:
Title: Re: 'WIDE A WAKE' a steam launch tale
Post by: fcheslop on July 23, 2014, 10:58:03 PM
Hi, Iv used liquid gas as per Malcolm's idea using a blow lamp type head running on a 70/30 mix and found it did help and keeps a constant flame.
I can do a few pics if its of any use
Sorry cannot comment on the ceramic burners and can only add welcome to the black art of burner making I always struggle and theres a load of suck it and see and it will be different when in the flue :hammerbash:
cheers
Title: Re: 'WIDE A WAKE' a steam launch tale
Post by: fcheslop on July 23, 2014, 11:04:39 PM
Hi Sandy, if you had time would you be willing to do a post on burner design as I for one would love to learn more about the subject or point me in the right direction as the amount of scrappers I make is horrendous
Many thanks
frazer
Title: Re: 'WIDE A WAKE' a steam launch tale
Post by: Ramon on July 23, 2014, 11:22:17 PM
Hi Sandy - many thanks once again for your help and interest.

I've had a quick run through but have printed it off and am about to depart for some bedtime reading  :old:

Decided to set the flue in today as preferred but like you have doubts as to its ability to stand the heat. It does have unions so should be easy enough to change.

Hopefully the drills will be here tomorrow - a watched doormat is just like a kettle ::)

Back soon - thanks again - Ramon

Title: Re: 'WIDE A WAKE' a steam launch tale
Post by: SandCam on July 23, 2014, 11:35:57 PM
Hi Sandy, if you had time would you be willing to do a post on burner design as I for one would love to learn more about the subject or point me in the right direction as the amount of scrappers I make is horrendous
Many thanks
frazer

Hi Frazer,

Such an article would be quite a huge document as there are just so many variables and types... and would take some considerable time to compile.

I may be able to do a shorter one on ceramic burners at some point, but not at this point in time, since I have a lot of other stuff going on at the moment.

I would be more than happy to discuss, suggest, a design for a specific burner if that would be of help.

Just Pm me and I will attempt to assist.

Best regards.

Sandy. ;D :cheers:
Title: Re: 'WIDE A WAKE' a steam launch tale
Post by: Ramon on July 24, 2014, 09:16:05 AM
Morning Guys  :)

Sandy - I have read through your very thorough answers and thoughts to my questions and ideas. Thank you once again for taking the time to support this project with your advice and knowledge - it's really appreciated.

I did make the jet and did drill nearly  all the way through but without checking cannot say what size - probably 2.5. I left 0.5mm for the jet hole to pass so was nearly on target  ;) - The next jets will be as you suggest. I'll fit a diffuser today.

The more I think about the drier the more I agree - it wont last long. I shall try to source some stainless tube - does anyone have any idea what grade would be the most malleable and where I can get some 3/16 od in longer lengths than 12"? In the short term I shall see how it goes - it might be possible to shroud the lower most point with a stainless heat shield .

Your advice not to fit any means of inducing a draft comes in the nick of time - I was about to do that today. My friend John (C) (I have lots of friend 'Johns'!) who gave me the parts for a fan has converted a coal fired horizontal boiler to gas using a flat rectangular ceramic burner. He suggested it as his apparently has a habit of blowing back/extinguishing the flame until he has steam up. I'll leave as is then - just fit an inner flue.

My thinking about using liquid gas came from two sources - mainly from seeing the problems created by cooling (using 70/30 mix) on a couple of the boats at the club. They have no form, not even insulation, of combating the temperature drop and the detrimental effect rapidly develops. Quite by chance I found the article on using liquid gas and felt this would be a path to take to try to reduce this effect.
However, having read your comments I'm now not quite so sure this will be as easy to control as first thought so yes - I would appreciate the info on a regulator. I will go down that route first seeing how much heat I generate on the mixing chamber which is really the only area I have for a vapourising coil. The thought of liquid gas not vapourising where it should is a definite concern  :o so will put thoughts of this method on the back burner (yes!  :)) until a regulated system has been well tested. I intend to make the gas tank so will make provision for the take off just in case.

One more question please - does anyone have any idea of the thread size of the Coleman type gas tanks and whether a tap is available?

Looks like I've got another day in the shop - Sue's painting garden chairs  ;D

Thanks again Sandy

Ramon
Title: Re: 'WIDE A WAKE' a steam launch tale
Post by: Stuart on July 24, 2014, 12:34:38 PM
Ramon
Polly engineering have them

Page 39 of the combined catalogue

19 quid though but they do not leak and are well made

Stuart
Title: Re: 'WIDE A WAKE' a steam launch tale
Post by: Ramon on July 24, 2014, 01:25:00 PM
Thanks Stuart - I had seen them and will go that route if all else fails but I would prefer to make one if I can - just need to know the size.

Ramon
Title: Re: 'WIDE A WAKE' a steam launch tale
Post by: Jasonb on July 24, 2014, 01:39:05 PM
try 7/16x28tpi.

I seem to remember reading that gas tanks need testing to quite a high pressure

J
Title: Re: 'WIDE A WAKE' a steam launch tale
Post by: Ramon on July 24, 2014, 01:53:41 PM
Thanks Jason - yes, agreed but have checked it out with the CBI first. All cleared to go ahead - test pressure will 333.5 psi for 70/30 mix

Ramon
Title: Re: 'WIDE A WAKE' a steam launch tale
Post by: SandCam on July 24, 2014, 03:32:34 PM
Hi Guy's,
Good fun here is it not...

Ramon, Just sent you an email.

Best regards.

Sandy. :cheers:
Title: Re: 'WIDE A WAKE' a steam launch tale
Post by: Ramon on July 24, 2014, 04:36:42 PM
Just come in for tea - drills came today  :D

Drilling .2 and .3mm  holes certainly shows up any discrepancy in yer kit!

Sandy - just read your email - will respond this evening.

Ramon
Title: Re: 'WIDE A WAKE' a steam launch tale
Post by: K.B.C on July 25, 2014, 11:14:46 AM

[/quote]

Hi George,
 Don't worry, I confuse myself often enough.

I had a feeling that was what you were trying to say and YES I used to think that too until I did a lot more delving into the mysterious world of gas burners.

Thats when I found out about flame front speed and how gas/air delivery speed effected the behaviour.

I am sure you find it somewhat frustrating when you get a problem and can't find anyone at your club interested enough to help.

Remember, you only need to PM me if you need to discuss an issues and I will always be happy to assist where I can.

Keep happy and Good on you for being able to keep your cycling up... I am well past that now for health reasons.

All the best.

Sandy. :old: :cheers:
[/quote]

HI Sandy,
Thanks for the offer of help, I do know that you have always been willing to pass on your expertise which is greatly appreciated and if needed I will certainly contact you.
Thanks for the info on gas flow which to date I have not read as the weather has been so good I have been out on the bike most days and and still recovering from the heat.

George.
Title: Re: 'WIDE A WAKE' a steam launch tale
Post by: K.B.C on July 25, 2014, 11:42:17 AM
Ramon,
If I may make some comments on your questions on steam drier and a vaporizer on your gas supply.

I had a Scotch boiler built 17 years ago by a so called qualified heating engineer who must have spent a fortune on S/Solder.as you can see by the pic.
The fire tube has no cross tubes fitted and I use the head from a plumbers lamp , the steam dryer coil is in direct line of the flame and is fed by 5/32" copper pipe into the 1/4" dia dryer and the out to 5/32" copper pipe to a D10 engine.

At the start of this year for the first time since building the boiler I stripped it down to refurbed the boiler with new lagging and a S/Steel cover over the ceramic lagging.
After all of those years and the 1/4" copper pipe dryer there is no sign of  deterioration what so ever so I would suggest that using 3/16" copper pipe as a dryer will be fine.
Stainless steel tube can cost a fortune as it only comes in 6 m lengths, the last time that I purchased 1/4" 316 S/Steel tube for my flashsteamer cost about £30 per 6m length so stick with the copper.

You mention using a coil to vaporize L.P.G. before burning, I have some experience of burning Liquid Butane by the following method but not with a Ceramic burner.

If you make a copper tank and fit 2- valves,  I that has a pipe going down to the bottom of the tank to draw liquid and
the other fitted to a bush to draw vapor. and also fit one of the Ronson type filler valve and fill with the Lighter fuel cans that can be purchased in bargain stores in the U.K.

Make a twin yoke as per the sketch and take the single pipe and wind it around the burner head ( plumbers blow lamp ) and then back into the jet holder.

This allows you to start up on gas and when burner head is hot switch over to liquid and close the gas valve.
This gives a very steady burn without the usual drop in pressure, drop in temp, E.T.C. and will burn right down to the bottom of the liquid supply.

Unfortunatelly I have never tried this on an enclosed Ceramic burner.
I hope this may get the gray cells working and you can adapt it to your burner.

George.

P.S.
 If you wish to make your own valves P.M. your mail address and I will send some sketches that I have to make valves.

 
Title: Re: 'WIDE A WAKE' a steam launch tale
Post by: Ramon on July 25, 2014, 02:25:24 PM
Hi George - many thanks for your interest and input.

Whilst I'm heartened somewhat by your description of your driers durability I'm not quite so sure this will be the case with mine. That said I'm a firm believer in trying first before dismissing ;)

Taking a close look at your coil it would appear that you have a thick wall 1/4" tube with the 5/32 tubes soldered in. Mine is just standard wall 3/16 pipe. From the image it would appear that your burner does not impinge directly on the coil though never the less I agree it would be in a very hot area.

At this stage, in my boiler, I have no idea how far the flame will reach nor how much heat the water tubes will absorb from it before it takes the turn upward into the flue. The bottom of the drier is about 1" above the turn and will be directly in line with whatever flame exists or as Sandy suggests hot gases in order of 300-400C. Having had the point raised and looking at it as is I don't have a great confidence it will withstand the environment for long, however, as said previously, nothing ventured nothing gained so it will get tested and checked on a regular basis to see how well it stands up. Should it fail in short order then stainless will probably then become the route to take though not before trying this first. I'll obviously keep you posted on the results.

Having communicated with Sandy I've decided at this stage not to continue with the liquid gas approach. Couple of reasons - First and probably the major reason is that there is this nagging doubt about controlling the balance out there on the water - if liquid gas should escape  ::) - I mean, setting fire to my hair is one thing but hell, the boat is another   ;D

By using a regulator the effect of cooling on gas pressure will be diminished, in all probability more than sufficient for the use envisaged - I don't see steaming this as a regular weekly event - and by keeping to 70/30 mix will have the improvement and to some degree a consistency that that mix brings over Butane.

I hope you will not think that I am being dismissive of your suggestions as I value your input and thought. I will keep 'in store' your thoughts on liquid gas but having given this some careful though aided by Sandy's guidance I would now like to keep to a fairly narrow path at this stage until I see what transpires from the initial set up.

I've had to take the time to have a really good clear up this morning - I just need to finish off then I'll try those jets made yesterday.

Thanks again George - all thoughts are much appreciated :ThumbsUp:

Title: Re: 'WIDE A WAKE' a steam launch tale
Post by: K.B.C on July 25, 2014, 08:17:17 PM
Ramon,
I certainly don't think that you are being in anyway dismissive of my comments and no offense is taken.
However I don't know where you get the idea that my 1/4" copper pipe is thick walled as I can assure you that it is standard domestic small bore central heating pipe and is directly in line with the burner which is 5" away at the other end of the fire tube with no interior cross tubes to take away some of the heat of the blow lamp burner.
On experiments many years ago when I made the boiler when the burner was set up and the dryer coil positioned where it would be eventually enclosed in the fire box it glowed bright red and I can only assume that it does so when enclosed in the fire box and after some 17 years of use there is no  evidence of deterioration.

Over the years I have made a few Scotch Marine boilers for friends to the same design and have never had any reports that the 1/4" tube is failing.

I cannot comment on which is the higher temp burner, Ceramic or blow lamp but suggest that you save yourself some cash and install the copper dryer and see what happen, if you decide at some point to go for a liquid burn if I can help give a YELL.

George.
Title: Re: 'WIDE A WAKE' a steam launch tale
Post by: Ramon on July 25, 2014, 09:55:23 PM
Thanks George - I wouldn't want to offend anyone least of all those who are only to keen to help  :)

I confess I made that assumption (oh dear :-[)  from the image - it appeared it may be thicker with just a 5/32 pipe going into it. I'm really taking note of what you are saying however and despite the initial doubt as said I'm going to try it first - given the longevity that yours has shown maybe my anxiety is a mite too premature. I certainly won't go down the stainless route until this 3/16 pipe has been well tested and there's enough room to do what you have done and move up to a 1/4 pipe before that. We'll see what transpires - I'll be only too pleased to tell you that 'you were right'  ;)

It's been an interesting, if tedious, afternoon testing jets and trying various combinations to see if the flame could be improved - mostly not that successful and with little improvement from previous. Yesterday the new jets of .2mm and .3mm were made - didn't take long to break the first .2mm drill as the tailstock was a tad off centre  ::)  A quick tweak sorted that and a couple of jets ensued. So I had the original .35, the burnished and unknown size one and the new jets.

Flame wise there was very little between them though it was obvious the .2mm  was not delivering as well as the others. Finalising on the new .3 which is what Sandy had recommended originally and trying a number of positions it was found the best was with the jet tube only just in the mixer tube sufficient for the screw to hold.
Whatever was tried however the one thing that seemed apparent was that there simply was not enough primary air getting in so at one point, just to see what would happen the jet was carefully removed as the burner was alight  :o yes I know - still got my hair ;) and gradually pulled it back from the mixer tube - the increase in noise as air was pulled in around the jet was quite noticeable and 'whadya know' an instant success flame wise  ;D.

The following then are some pics of the process which finally saw success this evening.

This was the basic set up as designed by Sandy - that's a 1/2 dia mixer tube with four 1/4" holes. The jet tube has been shortened from the original so to just sit in the end of the mixer tube and the jet is the .3mm made yesterday
(https://lh6.googleusercontent.com/-e5VqzPaectw/U9KzoiYN1TI/AAAAAAAAJqs/IVXwMh4h8HU/s912/DSCF5080.JPG)

This shows the approximate position of the jet when it was removed it whilst still alight
(https://lh5.googleusercontent.com/-fjvQ8iDFyRs/U9KzorXAxZI/AAAAAAAAJqk/zYH_WXCHe6A/s912/DSCF5084.JPG)

Taking into account the amount of air getting in (I did not stop to calculate the area of the open tube) it didn't take much to reason that more holes were required so drilled six holes just in front of where the jet would sit. Beginning with 2mm holes they were tried each time enlarging them steadily through 2.5,3, 3.5 and stopping at 4mm. Though it improved a little surprisingly it did not make a significant difference to the flame.
(https://lh6.googleusercontent.com/-MCFqVvdbqmQ/U9KzopnJytI/AAAAAAAAJqo/ghffKHGC8rs/s912/DSCF5087.JPG)

The jet was even reduced so as to help get a little more air past those holes but still no real gain
(https://lh6.googleusercontent.com/-M7n0GLkFLVk/U9KzuuhdvsI/AAAAAAAAJq0/_7mXaSl5EV8/s912/DSCF5088.JPG)

(https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-VAkgY_rz1Hg/U9Kzwo2iT1I/AAAAAAAAJrA/PiEc8BRsYbI/s912/DSCF5090.JPG)

So, once again the jet was withdrawn with the burner alight and again - instant improvement.  I came to the conclusion that the gas was pulling air in at a much faster rate by the venturi effect than it could through those holes at right angles to it's flow. Not based on anything scientific - just how I saw it  ;)

So this evening  another jet holder was made to hold the jet at roughly the same distance but with a bit more control  and 'Bingo' I do believe that's cracked it  :D
(https://lh6.googleusercontent.com/-bguKPpexIb8/U9Kz0hH9QhI/AAAAAAAAJrM/2Yh06NjP-Ss/s912/DSCF5096.JPG)

(https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-LWP-agbzSP0/U9Kz4R0P34I/AAAAAAAAJrY/2U4-pok6o-w/s912/DSCF5100.JPG)

Some pics of the 'new' flame ( sorry about the silicone George but I don't have a connection for the tank end. You'll note I have got a better connection at the jet end though)

With the canister just cracked open
(https://lh4.googleusercontent.com/-nNLCp56l7Og/U9Kz4YNcEQI/AAAAAAAAJrc/F7fpHeXSYik/s912/DSCF5101.JPG)

About third open
(https://lh5.googleusercontent.com/-sN7pPNY3pr4/U9Kz6lvU3KI/AAAAAAAAJrk/ertPQCgdyFU/s912/DSCF5102.JPG)

And fully open
(https://lh5.googleusercontent.com/-5TytiRKaFpc/U9Kz-UsFNYI/AAAAAAAAJrw/TbKO26hUaU4/s912/DSCF5108.JPG)

(https://lh5.googleusercontent.com/-uuuZaFUM2tg/U9Kz-R_99_I/AAAAAAAAJr0/fdPi_TOb7pM/s912/DSCF5109.JPG)


Well I'm well pleased with the result but I have a reservation that that open jet may be a problem in the open air - perhaps a shroud of some kind will be needed. It does appear to be the right kind of flame but that's based on what I think, definitely not on what I know - opinions will be welcome that's for sure ;)

I'm going to take a break for a few days now - boiler gets its official test next Thursday so all going well the rebuild proper and steam test can then get underway.

Thanks for looking in - hope that's of use to someone - just don't do as I did with that jet  ::)

Regards - Ramon
Title: Re: 'WIDE A WAKE' a steam launch tale
Post by: vcutajar on July 26, 2014, 04:56:22 AM
Good luck with the boiler test Ramon.

Vince
Title: Re: 'WIDE A WAKE' a steam launch tale
Post by: Ramon on July 26, 2014, 09:00:53 AM
Thanks Vince  :ThumbsUp:

Having given some thought overnight to this 'successful' modification something is niggling away that this may not be the correct manner to deal with the problem  :-\.

Reading through and studying the drawings on everything I have filed on burners all the mixer tubes are fundamentally the same as Sandy has designed for this burner. However I notice that the mixing tubes are longer (some considerably so) with the primary air holes set further back. Either - away from the end of the tube closer to the jet or further away from the jet and closer to the end of the tube.

It's left me wondering if the length of tube after the primary air holes on this particular burner is not long enough before it opens into the mixing chamber - too short, that is, for the gas to create a sufficient venturi effect to draw enough air in.

I don't particularly want to break this one down to try another tube in it - but any thoughts on this anomaly and any potential hazards from yesterdays results would be welcome.

Regards - Ramon
Title: Re: 'WIDE A WAKE' a steam launch tale
Post by: Stuart on July 26, 2014, 10:07:03 AM
Ramon

my two cents

On my Polly burner that is about your size the jet tube is 25 mm and the mixer tube is 48mm  now on looking down the mixer tube towards the ceramic there is a 1mm mesh diffuser in place

on your first pic with the valve open it looks very lean on gas, on the other pics with more gas you have hollow cones , as far as I know those lean mixes could lead to an excess of CO in the exhaust gas not a problem out  doors but be careful in the WS we do not want any hypoxia

I am no expert on these so take my observations for what they are just that


BTW my burner flame looks more like you first set of pics but looks different under the boiler ( 4 inch dia vertical ) I made for injector building and testing with the DAG Brown test cell

Stuart
Title: Re: 'WIDE A WAKE' a steam launch tale
Post by: Stuart on July 26, 2014, 10:31:17 AM
Ramon

I forgot to add you can get 5/32 dia stainless steel tube ,seamless made for hypodermic needles ( vets )

Now this stuff is easily bent  I have done it round a 3/4 former

When I had my loco,s that's what I used for the radiant super heaters

Now this stuff is not cheap , I got mine from D Hewson

But the stuff used in the thread on flash steam would be ok

You may be ok with copper as you are gas firing but with coal and the sulphur in the smoke copper went holy very quickly and I mean weeks

If you are using CI cylinders and rings let the super heater go down into the flue so it is exposed to the burner , but if you have bronze cylinders and soft packing keep the super heater out of the flame


High super heat will help with your oil seperator and condenser


Sorry for the ramble

Stuart
Title: Re: 'WIDE A WAKE' a steam launch tale
Post by: SandCam on July 26, 2014, 03:42:13 PM
Hi Ramon,

(http://i1330.photobucket.com/albums/w573/steambod/Burnerveryclose_1_zpsacdd280b.png)

You were very close in this earlier photo... just slightly gas rich and the velocity of combined gas/air mix was a little on the low side.

Your latest mods have gone the other way... gas content is now a little low but total velocity of mixture about right for the total flame length required given the correct gas content... but somewhat too high for the air rich mix being produced... the cones are almost at the point where they are lifting from the ceramic surface.

Try closing off the 4 original air holes and perhaps moving the jet a little closer to the jet tube... this would reduce the air content a little without reducing the gas content and would emulate the longer distance being required between the end of the jet tube and the air inlets theory.

It is just possible that this particular burner requires a change in location... but I am puzzled as to quite why that may be the case. :thinking:

You need to aim for pale blue inner cone with a darker blue outer cone where they exit the ceramic... about 3/8" long... the overall flame length should be between 4 and 6 inches max. with as little yellow as possible (there will always be some when burning in the open air... this is mainly caused by the ever present dust and dirt particles)... it will behave differently when fitted into the flu and may then need further minor adjustment. 

White cones are air rich and, as Stuart rightly says, will be producing CO... not a good thing in the workshop or anywhere else for that matter.

Damn steamboaters polluting the atmosphere :Director: :hellno: :slap: :naughty: :lolb: :lolb:

As I said above; I am somewhat puzzled that the original jet tube is performing as it is with this particular burner since this particular design layout has been successful with burners ranging between 30mm dia up to 88mm dia for round burners and up to 50mm x 120mm rectangular burners... the only difference being the jet size used and the location of the jet carrier has always been within the adjustment range of the jet tube... all very strange. :headscratch:

Having the jet/air inlet exposed will make it more prone to sidedraft and a shield would be a sensible option, especially in an open launch... it is also much more vulnerable to a spark etc (not that there are many of these in the middle of a boating lake), which could cause the gas to ignite at the jet... again a shield would be of benefit.
The layout itself is not an unusual one... a lot of camping stoves and barbie's have just such an arrangement, however, these are usually located under a shield to prevent such occurances.

Will be in touch via email later.

Best regards.

Sandy. :cheers:

Title: Re: 'WIDE A WAKE' a steam launch tale
Post by: Ramon on July 26, 2014, 03:53:03 PM
That's not ramble Stuart that's useful  :ThumbsUp: Thanks for the input.

It was my intention to fit a diffuser the other morning but realised when I set to that I would have to destroy the ceramic as it is bonded in with silicone sealant. I shall wait until that has to come out and will fit one then

I'm assuming that when you refer to 'the first pic' you mean in the last posting. Well I included that to show the flame with the canister literally just cracked open - very low gas flow indeed. I was pleased to see this very uniform and blue all over flame with just a whisper of gas compared to the soft yellow flame previously. I take your point about C0 though   ;)

Thanks for the info on the stainless - we'll have to wait and see what happens but I'll add D. Hewson to the list.

With regards to CI cylinders and rings - the original D10 that I obtained for this has CI cylinders but has bronze pistons with no rings or packing. It's my intention to rebuild this engine with a one piece CI cylinder head and was intending to use my preferred piston packing of PTFE impregnated yarn.  I ran the Twin Victoria on steam with this set up for several years without a problem - the drier tube on the 504 boiler running between the two gas (poker) burners.

I can see there's going to be a lot of 'watch carefully and see what happens' on this project. 

Sue decided to paint the summer house today to match the chairs - 'Would you like a hand dear?' 'No I'm fine' came the reply. 'Speeding bullets' spring to mind - guess where I've been  ;D -  Made a start on that gas tank  ;D

Sandy - your post has just come up as I'm typing this - Have read it through but need to digest it a bit more in relation to what's happened so far - will respond later.

Regards - Ramon
Title: Re: 'WIDE A WAKE' a steam launch tale
Post by: Stuart on July 26, 2014, 04:23:19 PM
Ramon

it was post 187 I was referring to

more thinking out loud so to speak could not the problem be that the burner is is free space not enclosed if a fire box , or is it the high ambient temp we have now causing a higher pressure on the gas supply as these burners work at canister pressure with no regulators


But as Sandy says the design has been around a long time so should be OK but why is it the simple looking devices that we make cause so much teeth gnashing to get working


I will keep looking and I wish you well with your visit to the Boiler Inspector ( they really are very nice people and do a sterling job for no pay )

Stuart
Title: Re: 'WIDE A WAKE' a steam launch tale
Post by: steamer on July 26, 2014, 05:57:16 PM
Damn steamboaters polluting the atmosphere :Director: :hellno: :slap: :naughty: :lolb: :lolb:


 :lolb:

True story.....

A politician got out of her Prius and walked down my street one day during election season....she was going door to door for her supporters....but clearly my name wasn't on the particular political party list...but as I was working on my trailered steamboat out at the edge of the street, curiosity got the better of her......she came over and asked what kind of boat this was?

"It's a steamboat."

I was ready for her answer..........first thing out of her mouth.....no kidding

"Aren't you concerned about the environment and your carbon footprint!?"

"Of course I am!....Why aren't you?!"

She was taken aback ...and asked what did I mean.

My boat burns refuse lumber.   By the rules already in place....I have a zero carbon footprint...The carbon I burn is already in the environment....I'm just hurrying the process along by burning it in the firebox.  ( This is true...my wood comes from the scrap at a lumber mill....which is destined to be burned)

My boat will last 30 plus years before it ends up in a land fill or what ever.  I'll probably be dead by then...so I don't know.

You burn gasoline, as much as you don't want to admit it, and your Prius will maybe last 10 year, and has over twice the carbon footprint of normal cars because of the difficulty in recycling it.

She was some kinda torqued off by now.....turned around and walked away in a huff.....still tickles me today...

No hate mail please.....

Dave
Title: Re: 'WIDE A WAKE' a steam launch tale
Post by: Ramon on July 26, 2014, 06:38:45 PM
Nice one Dave  :ThumbsUp:

Stuart, Sandy thanks again.

Okay - I can see I now have too much air  - I wasn't paying too much attention to the 'blue bits' more the overall effect of the flame and trying to get one without a soft yellow area. The rapid improvement gained by moving the jet out bringing too quick a conclusion on my part - Aaah - I thought it was too good to be true ::)


I think Sandy that if as you say the pic above is getting close to what's required possibly the mixer tube could be lengthened a little between the air holes and the mixing chamber and the holes themselves brought back toward the jet position but I will experiment with this one a bit more as you suggest before modifying it (replacing the tube) A new mixing jet tube was on the cards so that will be the first item.

As you say many burners have used this system - certainly confirmed with the info to hand as mentioned previously so I would like to get a result with it as designed if possible.

I need to bear in mind too that this could be quite different in the boiler - roll on Thursday.

Good day on the gas tank all parts done save the bushes  :)

Will report back soon with the new results

Regards - Ramon

Title: Re: 'WIDE A WAKE' a steam launch tale
Post by: Ramon on July 30, 2014, 09:51:50 PM
Hi Guys - well tomorrow is the telling day and everything is ready for it  :)

Despite thinking I would take a break I decided to get this 'boiler stage'  finished off first so kept on with it and that's certainly proved worthwhile.

Got the parts done for the gas tank first and having had the CBI cast a beady eye over them the soldering went ahead without any problems. The shell is 16 swg and the end plates are 12swg beaten over an ali form (five anneals)
(https://lh4.googleusercontent.com/-w1_CyO7awY4/U9UIw8ibUUI/AAAAAAAAJs4/dpwL3SlUkf4/s912/DSCF5151.JPG)

(https://lh6.googleusercontent.com/-fEhTLtdDXOY/U9UIrf7XbUI/AAAAAAAAJso/BWGBOFUqCcY/s912/DSCF5142.JPG)

With the soldering done the three valves were tackled - one for venting the other two for drawing off gas and liquid gas should that path be taken (one valve will have a pipe soldered in the end to reach the bottom of the tank)
(https://lh5.googleusercontent.com/-tCKb6KQddeQ/U9lQoPtL4iI/AAAAAAAAJts/oeY0yc22NpY/s912/DSCF5159.JPG)

If this passes muster tomorrow it's ready to fit
(https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-HUufaTM-ou4/U9lQoT_Uf-I/AAAAAAAAJtw/DzBo4Go-mZU/s912/DSCF5164.JPG)

The other matter tackled has been another couple of slight improvements to the burner.
(https://lh4.googleusercontent.com/-q_DWvsLLil0/U9lQobqxVaI/AAAAAAAAJt0/ry_Z5Pj_xAo/s912/DSCF5166.JPG)

Following Sandy's suggestion of gradually covering the holes using the previously fitted ring, doing so, even slightly, led immediately to a longer and gas rich yellow flame. A decision was made to remove the ring and keep to the mod made but lengthen the jet tube and see how little the annular gap around the jet tube could be before the flame yellowed. Surprisingly quite small but as soon as that gap closes the flame changes significantly
(https://lh6.googleusercontent.com/-aDaZctaO3Ok/U9lQsbT7IAI/AAAAAAAAJt8/3ACsgK5xAkI/s912/DSCF5171.JPG)

A valve was made mainly to act as a flow restricter - which it does to a degree but the spindle point needs to be much finer to give a better control - it certainly shows the benefit a controllable regulator would give. One thing noticed was the blue flame points - much higher on the far side of the ceramic than the inlet side. Reasoning that this may be due to the flow of gas hitting the far side of the mixing chamber an attempt to break the flow down using a 6BA screw fitted in direct line of flow showed a slight improvement but not enough to say it was a cure. The ceramic will have to come out eventually and a larger flow diffuser fitted I'm sure.
(https://lh5.googleusercontent.com/-qT6bstVTcYo/U9lQtW2ezSI/AAAAAAAAJuE/Y2FsDpo-ceE/s912/DSCF5175.JPG)

However having tried it tonight it does show a small but distinct improvement  - and - after a rummage  discovered an overlooked length of 2 3/4" dia copper pipe about 16" long the effect of standing this over the burner ring as a flue made a significant difference. Air could quite noticeably be heard being pulled through the secondary air holes and the flame intensifying to a fair degree - unfortunately you can't see anything - and no I wasn't tempted to look down the end  ;D

At this stage I think I'll leave any further changes until I can run it in the boiler proper which hopefully if all goes well tomorrow won't be that long  ;)

Hope you're not getting 'burnt out'  ::) with all these meanderings

Regards - Ramon
Title: Re: 'WIDE A WAKE' a steam launch tale
Post by: steamer on July 30, 2014, 10:57:08 PM
Looks like awesome progress to me!
Title: Re: 'WIDE A WAKE' a steam launch tale
Post by: b.lindsey on July 30, 2014, 11:12:43 PM
Good luck with the test tomorrow Ramon!!

Bill
Title: Re: 'WIDE A WAKE' a steam launch tale
Post by: Don1966 on July 31, 2014, 12:21:32 AM
That's awesome Ramon and hope the test goes well. You have done a beautiful job on this and a well documented thread to go with it. Thanks for sharing.

 :popcorn:

Don
Title: Re: 'WIDE A WAKE' a steam launch tale
Post by: derekwarner on July 31, 2014, 02:08:19 AM
Yes..... a beautiful gas tank build Ramon...... :cheers:.....

Just one question :facepalm:.....with the example gas tank by George & many other proprietary builds, they include a Ronson type filling valve

So with your three connections [one for condensate & one for gas out], do you fill the tank via the vent line?..........

Here is the image as provided by George earlier on in this thread..............Derek
Title: Re: 'WIDE A WAKE' a steam launch tale
Post by: Ramon on July 31, 2014, 10:58:25 PM
Dave, (good to see you're looking in  :ThumbsUp:) Bill, Don and Derek - thanks for your kind comments  ;)

Well it passed okay, without any problems and sitting at 120psi without so much as a drop of water evident nor any noticeable fade off on the gauge  ;D

The gas tank looked promising too until 250 psi was reached when the pump (a different, smaller one but with a higher reading gauge) refused to go any further - such was the leverage it pulled the pump from its mountings (well they were only woodscrews  ::)) Unfortunately the gauge on this set up would not fit the other more substantial pump used for the boiler so it's a matter of waiting until the next visit for the second hydraulic test with fittings and the first steam test. Overall though it went well and it certainly appeared 'un-phased' at 250 psi, sitting comfortably at that pressure as various ideas were tried to coax a bit more leverage on the pump. Hopefully the remaining 83.5 psi to go will not phase it either.

The main thing though is that the boiler can now be fitted out ready to fit the hull  :)

Derek - I'm planning on using one valve to fill (via the 'liquid gas' take off) and one valve is there purely as a dedicated vent - this too will have a stub of pipe in to ensure a gas space as the liquid rises. The third valve will be the gas take off - well that's my plan  ;)

Regards for now - Ramon
Title: Re: 'WIDE A WAKE' a steam launch tale
Post by: Tennessee Whiskey on August 01, 2014, 12:50:48 AM
Congratulations Ramon, there is nothing sweeter than a successful hydro. When I had a real job in the recovery boiler trade, sometimes we had to resort to using way too hot of water for the boiler and way too much Crown Royal for the AI, you just did whatever the play called for 8).  :ThumbsUp: :ThumbsUp:

Whiskey
Title: Re: 'WIDE A WAKE' a steam launch tale
Post by: b.lindsey on August 01, 2014, 12:53:35 AM
Sounds like a successful first trial Ramon...congrats!!

Bill
Title: Re: 'WIDE A WAKE' a steam launch tale
Post by: Stuart on August 01, 2014, 07:13:43 AM
Ramon

It's always a good day when your boiler passes it's test , and dry to boot, well done

As to the gas tank pump did the boiler inspector test it :stir: to see if it passed

At that pressure was the gauge dead weight tested before the test ,to prove the gauge ,you may well have been at pressure

Glad things are progressing with the burner , they are funny things and as you have found the operating environment in which they work will alter the working parameters


Stuart
Title: Re: 'WIDE A WAKE' a steam launch tale
Post by: Ramon on August 01, 2014, 09:09:03 AM
Morning Guys  :)

Stuart - the secondary pump was fitted with a 400psi oil filled guage but had not been used before to test at such high pressure - apparently this gas tank is the first. I'm quite happy that the gauge was suitable - it went up in firm positive steps on each stroke of the pump without any fall back but getting harder each stroke. At 250 the mounting screws pulled out so a clamp was resorted too then the brass handle broke  ::) At this point it was decided to call it a day

The pump was well made but had a fairly large ram - I would guess around 14mm - for the overall physical size of pump body and lever. I would say at 250 psi the volume of water trying to be pressed passed the ball was just too much - the ram needing to be much smaller.

Regards - Ramon
Title: Re: 'WIDE A WAKE' a steam launch tale
Post by: Stuart on August 01, 2014, 11:17:19 AM
Ramon

Yes that pump should have approx a 8mm ram or smaller

But I am troubled with your comment ,not used before , when was the gauge tested ? At 400 psi that gauge  is a bit tight

Our club always used gauges of at least twice the test pressure , but they were about 150 mm dia , the club standard was a huge gauge that was dead weight tested and all others were tested against that, even the one on the tester that was used to test your gauge that you will be fitting to your boiler to enable a red line to be put on ,that way all gauges relate to the master .

In my line of work when I did it 17 years ago not been to work since we tested the test meter before and after any test , 11kv and above do not take prisoners so as you see it has made me a bit keen on testing,

It brought the testing home to me when I had declared a 11kv underground cable dead for the jointer test was about half a mile from the OCB when he gave me the hacksaw and said you cut it then I know it's dead

Stuart
Title: Re: 'WIDE A WAKE' a steam launch tale
Post by: K.B.C on August 01, 2014, 11:32:49 AM
Ramon,
If I may go back to your post No 233 where you reply to Derek.

Quote

Derek - I'm planning on using one valve to fill (via the 'liquid gas' take off) and one valve is there purely as a dedicated vent - this too will have a stub of pipe in to ensure a gas space as the liquid rises. The third valve will be the gas take off - well that's my plan

I see that on your gas tank you have fitted 3- screw down valves,and your method of filling the tank from another gas tank.

The provision of an extension pipe to create an air space in the tank could be dangerous if you tried to fill the tank while in the boat.
Even when out of the boat you are relying on waiting until the liquid starts to come from your extension pipe indicating that the liquid has reached the desired level. , this liquid then flows all over the place before you can shut down the valve.

Stuart on his post No 208 mentioned Polymodel Cat page 39 for a gas tank valve , on that same page they list a Ronson filler valve @ £5.10.

If you fitted one of these valves to your tank ,as shown on the sketch that I posted earlier, this would allow you to buy cans of lighter fuel from some of the market stalls , they are 300ml/ 167g , and cost around the £1 mark which is a great saving and you wouldn't need the £19 valve from Polymodel.

These valves have an automatic cut of when the liquid reaches the required level with the minimum of over spill.
If this is of interest I have some sketches somewhere on the dimensions of the bushing and tapping required.

George.
 

Title: Re: 'WIDE A WAKE' a steam launch tale
Post by: Ramon on August 01, 2014, 11:41:03 AM
Hi Stuart - I didn't mean the pump had not been used before - more that it had not been used to test a gas tank at the 333.5 psi required.

I appreciate your caution re testing and having the gauge checked and calibrated but that's the domain of the CBI - as far as I see it 'I'm in his hands'. There is a 'master gauge against which the gauges are checked so as long as he is happy with the outcome and he certainly goes about the business very thoroughly then I'll accept his judgement. I honestly don't have any anxiety at this point that something hasn't been done correctly so don't feel the need to question anything.

Thanks for your concern though :)

Started re-working the mahogany lagging this morning -  despite having them carefully stored somehow those workshop gremlins have got their bloody hands on three small pieces   :o

Regards - Ramon
Title: Re: 'WIDE A WAKE' a steam launch tale
Post by: Ramon on August 01, 2014, 11:58:25 AM
Hi George -  Thanks for your kind offer of help  :ThumbsUp: - however one of the decisions I've come to is to keep to Coleman 70 / 30 gas. It may be a bit dearer but it's readily available and as the boat will not be continuously sailed on a regular basis that extra cost isn't too much of a factor - besides isn't lighter fuel straight Butane? I was think of using that originally when I considered a vapourising system but having now fixed on the 70 /30 that system may not actually be used. I just made provision for that by fitting three valves 'just in case'.

Rest assured the one thing I won't be doing is filling any tank in the boat  (nor in the back of the car :o) - as I learn more about using LPG that's just to much to risk so it will be in open air. I take your point though about the overflow and excess gas but at this point I need to at least see if it's viable. Like Stuarts post previously though I do appreciate your caution and advice - thanks for your continued input

Back to the lagging :)

Regards - Ramon
Title: Re: 'WIDE A WAKE' a steam launch tale
Post by: K.B.C on August 02, 2014, 12:38:26 PM
Hi George -  Thanks for your kind offer of help  :ThumbsUp: - however one of the decisions I've come to is to keep to Coleman 70 / 30 gas. It may be a bit dearer but it's readily available and as the boat will not be continuously sailed on a regular basis that extra cost isn't too much of a factor - besides isn't lighter fuel straight Butane? I was think of using that originally when I considered a vapourising system but having now fixed on the 70 /30 that system may not actually be used. I just made provision for that by fitting three valves 'just in case'.

Rest assured the one thing I won't be doing is filling any tank in the boat  (nor in the back of the car :o) - as I learn more about using LPG that's just to much to risk so it will be in open air. I take your point though about the overflow and excess gas but at this point I need to at least see if it's viable. Like Stuarts post previously though I do appreciate your caution and advice - thanks for your continued input

Back to the lagging :)

Regards - Ramon

Ramon,
Butane burns perfectly well, I use it solely and refill my tanks from a 4.5kg bottle, purely as I use the 4.5kg bottle for all my soldering including boiler making.

If you find the 70/30 mix suitable for you, no problem!!!!

Your over flow idea will work perfectly well, just leave enough air space in the top of the tank.

George.
Title: Re: 'WIDE A WAKE' a steam launch tale
Post by: Ramon on August 07, 2014, 11:19:11 PM
Hi Guys - Well I'm really pleased to tell that this stage of the journey is fundamentally over  ;D

Last few days have been finishing off small items and rebuilding the boiler to finished state. There is still the steam test (personal one) to carry out and before that a small block for testing the pressure gauge and safety valve needs making but the boiler itself is now  'ready to fit'.

One of the things I'd thought about 'improving' was the mahogany lagging. Since this was originally made in 1972 with lagging made from 3/8 x 1/8 strips it's been noticed on full size engines over the years that more often than not the lagging has  for some reason  a half round beading down one edge. Whether this is traditional or done for some specific reason I have no idea but I thought I would try to replicate it.

I made a simple tool from an off cut of gauge plate and bolted it to the side of a long angleplate using it as a scriber to give a groove angled toward one side. This worked extremely well and the beading was then finished off by filing the inner side and sanding the outer side to give a semblance of a half round profile
(https://lh4.googleusercontent.com/-XbnqNaXn-Xo/U-PZ3finwSI/AAAAAAAAJus/koZJaSMh45E/s912/DSCF5177.JPG)

(https://lh5.googleusercontent.com/-5if97_qIzcw/U-PZ3dbkQUI/AAAAAAAAJuo/_DgMpEm0E7Q/s912/DSCF5178.JPG)

The original finish - French Polish applied as a varnish - was cut back by rubbing with wire wool after soaking the strips in methylated spirit and then each strip had Danish oil rubbed into the surface
(https://lh4.googleusercontent.com/-kQ4PzVvTZnc/U-PZ3Q-bCsI/AAAAAAAAJuk/M3ZUKPrkBUc/s912/DSCF5180.JPG)

I felt the effort, which was actually quite time consuming was well worth the end result  :)
(https://lh5.googleusercontent.com/-ZgP1hRxPhqY/U-PaDzCm4PI/AAAAAAAAJvU/xqMLl8Gayv4/s912/DSCF5223.JPG)

A cover was turned from brass for the back end of the flue and fitted with a short length of tube to act as a feed water heater. The brass hex will carry a stainless deflector (the material as yet to be sourced)
(https://lh4.googleusercontent.com/-Qm_GDXI3KHs/U-PZ86DtBlI/AAAAAAAAJu0/0zc4A1pLA4U/s912/DSCF5194.JPG)

The ceramic burner was removed, a diffuser fitted and new ceramic fitted.........
(https://lh6.googleusercontent.com/-0V42rgcSA1M/U-PZ_j4cRQI/AAAAAAAAJvE/k-qTatStfhc/s912/DSCF5206.JPG)

.......and finally the 'economiser' was plumbed to the inlet clack. I'm planning to run the hand pump direct to the boiler but the engine driven pump will run via this
(https://lh4.googleusercontent.com/-R8E82aMoA2w/U-PaB51tT9I/AAAAAAAAJvM/MM-vpRjrGb8/s912/DSCF5218.JPG)

At the start, particularly when those end plates were being cut out, there was a high degree of doubt in that this might not quite come off
(https://lh5.googleusercontent.com/-C2f-C_HOVJM/UuALxf-ropI/AAAAAAAAIdY/lzopbu7k5SM/s912/DSCF3870.JPG)

but, as I think you will agree, it was a journey worth taking  ;)
(https://lh6.googleusercontent.com/-8NyPY3foOOw/U-PZ_KtGh0I/AAAAAAAAJvA/Z4tfPUZNiXA/s912/DSCF5203.JPG)

Apart from doing a steam test on it next week it will now be put aside for a few weeks. There's another project  ;) (non ME) that is requiring some attention and then it would be good if a bit more progress on the Atomatic diesels could be made before getting back onto the launch around the end of October. Well, that's the plan today - all thing's subject to change of course  :)

That's it for tonight - thanks for looking in

Regards - Ramon
Title: Re: 'WIDE A WAKE' a steam launch tale
Post by: smfr on August 07, 2014, 11:56:14 PM
That looks fantastic, Ramon, and the wood lagging is beautiful!  :ThumbsUp: :ThumbsUp:

Simon
Title: Re: 'WIDE A WAKE' a steam launch tale
Post by: derekwarner on August 08, 2014, 12:55:25 AM
Yes Ramon......visually a beautiful boiler  :ThumbsUp:

It appears that you have used a combination of both RED fibre sealing washers and aluminium sealing washers

Interestingly the RED fibre is listed as providing up to 10% swell [when wet]........

Do you use the thumb or forefinger on the sheet of fine abrasive paper to size the fibre washers thickness to achieve the required alignment?
Do you also use a light LOCTITE [243?] liquid in combination with the washers?

I ended up with TEFLON sealing washers on a proprietry item.......which I found just plain silly  :hammerbash:...as TEFLON literally has no memory ...I have replaced these with fibre washers ...Derek
Title: Re: 'WIDE A WAKE' a steam launch tale
Post by: Dave Otto on August 08, 2014, 01:08:25 AM
Wow that's beautiful Ramon!

What a wonderful piece of craftsmanship.

Dave
Title: Re: 'WIDE A WAKE' a steam launch tale
Post by: b.lindsey on August 08, 2014, 01:34:12 AM
Beautiful job on the lagging Ramon. The whole boiler looks fantastic!!

Bill
Title: Re: 'WIDE A WAKE' a steam launch tale
Post by: Jo on August 08, 2014, 07:42:11 AM
That half beading does make a lot of difference to the final outcome, very nice  8)

Jo
Title: Re: 'WIDE A WAKE' a steam launch tale
Post by: Jasonb on August 08, 2014, 07:51:40 AM
Yery nice Ramon, your beadiong method is not that far off how small mouldings are done with a "scratch stock" and a lot more satisfying to do than using one of the miniature router cutters that are available for the 1/12 scale dolls house makers.

J
Title: Re: 'WIDE A WAKE' a steam launch tale
Post by: Don1966 on August 08, 2014, 01:57:43 PM
Ramon that is a awesome job and I have thoroughly enjoyed following and learning. Thanks for sharing and I like.................... I :praise2:

Don
Title: Re: 'WIDE A WAKE' a steam launch tale
Post by: Ramon on August 08, 2014, 01:58:28 PM
Thanks for your comments 'Guys'  :)

Derek - yes there's a cosmopolitan selection of washers there - gauge glass fittings are with annealed copper washers of varying thickness to achieve the orientation - fibre elsewhere, thinned to suit as you rightly surmise and the odd ali - old Stuart Turner stock from long ago - but all I had in 3/16  ::). I haven't used any form of sealant at this stage - will wait until the steam test to see what transpires.

I have tested the gas tank to just short of 350 psi today - no water leaks nor pressure loss occurred  :) (no pics I'm afraid )

Remembering that somewhere I had a small brass, ex acetylene, 0 - 600psi gauge squirreled away somewhere I went on a rummage and lo and behold found not only it but a much larger (5"dia) and long forgotten 600 psi Helicoid gauge languishing in an old box of bits. Now I know the tank will need testing to a calibrated gauge in the future but this would give me a good idea so after making a manifold for testing the safety valve and boiler pressure gauge you could say I've had a 'testing' morning.

One last valve to  make - that for the Coleman tank so I can decant the gas and then I can fire her up

Regards - Ramon
Title: Re: 'WIDE A WAKE' a steam launch tale
Post by: Ramon on August 10, 2014, 12:10:48 AM
Hi Guys, just a quick update - no sailing today due to high winds so only one place to be  ;)

Made a 7/16 x 28 tpi tap from silver steel (quenched in oil - no tempering) and made a valve to fit the Coleman canister. It's design is from the Malcolm Beak combined valve and regulator - the regulator will be a separate item on the boat. The only change made was to make the threaded part from a 4BA screw as an insert rather than part of the handle. Works extremely well as long as you remember that to turn the gas off you have to 'open' the valve as it works in reverse  :-\
(https://lh4.googleusercontent.com/-DhOKjCYxIy4/U-al8ECRR3I/AAAAAAAAJwI/O2s4E8iXwcY/s912/DSCF5233.JPG)

(https://lh4.googleusercontent.com/-oEL_P4w3iUo/U-al-8N-jrI/AAAAAAAAJwU/bPbqvJ5rN20/s912/DSCF5235.JPG)

With that made the gas was successfully decanted from a Coleman 250 canister (which it virtually emptied) into the gas tank and tested for leaks in a bucket of 'hand hot' water. As you can see not a hint of a bubble which is better than I expected - I did think the valves might leak. What looks like a bubble on the R/H valve is in fact air trapped inside the nipple.
(https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-rwBzmt8wkAU/U-al8B908xI/AAAAAAAAJwE/ASjQZxBhluA/s912/DSCF5228.JPG)

And yes - just in case you are wondering - the tank does have gas in it  ;)
(https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-wJpEGMNuY0E/U-al8G1E-VI/AAAAAAAAJwM/n6a2SLe3jtc/s912/DSCF5230.JPG)

So that's it all bar the first firing up. Tomorrow is a family get together kind of day so it will be Monday before that can happen

In the meantime thanks for looking in

Regards - Ramon

Title: Re: 'WIDE A WAKE' a steam launch tale
Post by: Ramon on August 12, 2014, 10:48:52 PM
Hi Guys - well I guess you'll be pleased to hear that this will be the last posting on this particular phase of the launch - what's that ? was that a  :whoohoo: I heard coming over the horizon :D

Today, after a slightly leaky start which required removal of some fittings to improve the seal the whole thing was given another hydraulic test to 1-1/2 times WP to check all fittings. It sat at 90 psi for half an hour or so with only a slight creep back due to a very slight weep on the gauge glass drain cock. The leaky fittings had previously had the copper washers replaced with fibre ones thinned to get the correct orientation and refitted using Rocol pipe sealant. The Riebach(?) white faced gauge glass, unfortunately the only piece available, cracked during removal so was replaced with plain but in fact this fitted the silicone seals better which is probably (seals too tight) what had caused it to crack in the first place
(https://lh6.googleusercontent.com/-jj36Qt16uhA/U-oxDD1jv8I/AAAAAAAAJxg/DkHVMyjBCyU/s912/DSCF5241.JPG)

Already set up on the temporary base it was time to get it fired up. It was quite windy today so rather than do it outside it was kept close to the door for ventilation.
(https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-L38UGTUUZnI/U-oxQLyQMgI/AAAAAAAAJyQ/eDfebxM_aMk/s912/DSCF5244.JPG)

The water was drained from the full test level to around three quarter full - the water BTW was at ambient temperature straight from the rain butt, filtered but not pre-heated.....
(https://lh5.googleusercontent.com/-LvvRJNVMeqM/U-oxFZFpwQI/AAAAAAAAJxo/ritZd95Dibg/s912/DSCF5248.JPG)

......and finally the burner was lit and the timer set to check how long it would take to raise steam from cold. The heat coming from the chimney was minimal - at 8-9" above hardly any heat at all could be felt and about 2-1/2" above just at the point of being too hot for a hand to remain there for long. I took it from this then that most of the heat was being absorbed by those water tubes as hoped for.
(https://lh6.googleusercontent.com/-7-9Q6_kaFvs/U-oxGswF3rI/AAAAAAAAJxw/GpQCQvRVtMM/s912/DSCF5249.JPG)

The burner performed well, and with a good, vaguely orange flame which could be observed reasonably well through those secondary air holes. At one point, about 5-10 mins in, it began to 'yowl', not particularly noisy but with a potential to be irritating but within a few more minutes that had disappeared completely and it until ran the gas ran out without reoccurring.
At about 25mins the safety valve began to issue a faint whiff of steam but it did not 'blow' until 33 mins had elapsed. I took this pic to record the time but the steam though issuing quite freely has not been captured.
(https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-9oan9q5pVGo/U-oxLabH19I/AAAAAAAAJx4/AgwbmgC3IiA/s912/DSCF5250.JPG)

With the boiler up to pressure the burner was backed off and the main valve opened and the old Double Ten got it's first taste of steam for some forty years  ;D
(https://lh4.googleusercontent.com/-74V1CIjRXHM/U-oxNldfjTI/AAAAAAAAJyA/pkXmJ31KqJY/s912/DSCF5261.JPG)

(https://lh4.googleusercontent.com/-9g9gXYB9mjU/U-oxQGRF9RI/AAAAAAAAJyM/wkrI5iT30gY/s912/DSCF5269.JPG)

Opening that plug cock a bit too quickly it roared into life on 60 psi but, once throttled back, it turned over steadily enough at a fast pace for the next 20 mins or so (I'd stopped the clock after the SV popped  ::)  before the gas ran out.

I don't have any parameters to go by so would welcome any thoughts on how long it should take to raise steam from cold. We have dedicated kettles for pre boiling water at the club but with just on 2-1/2 litres of water to boil and fill through a funnel thoughts are running more to a secondary, external, gas tank to get the water up to temperature then switching to the on board gas tank to get a much longer run.

Well guys, that really is the end of the road of this phase - it's taken a bit longer than I thought so my thanks to all those who've stayed the course and helped with advice, input or just being there.
To that I must add a truly special thanks to Sandy whose personal help on this from the start would really have to be received to be appreciated - Sandy I am forever indebted for your knowledge and expertise, your input and advice that you have given, so freely, throughout this rebuild.

It's time for a break - as mentioned previously I need to catch up on some outstanding non ME stuff but I hope to be back on the Atomatics in a few weeks time in order to make some progress on them before getting back onto the launch around the end of October.

Oh yes - just in case you've forgotten what it looked like I simply couldn't resist doing this  ;)

(https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-Qe3Nl88vQl8/U-p6_vSSnGI/AAAAAAAAJyo/F2ONWxcPqQE/s912/DSCF5270.JPG)

Those who've seen it tell me "its a big boiler" but it gets a bit lost in there as yet.

Hope you've enjoyed this as much as I have sharing it

Regards for now - Ramon

Title: Re: 'WIDE A WAKE' a steam launch tale
Post by: Robert Hornby on August 12, 2014, 11:26:47 PM
Ramon,
Thank you, thank you, thank you, what a wonderful job you have done with your boiler and with the photos and descriptions. The section on the burner issues will be of special interest to me as I am rapidly approaching my burner build (although not for a few months as I am in the middle of dismantling the work shop in preparation of a relocation) Also your experience with the gas tank interests me very much as I would like to do this also.
So all in all, an excellent job well done. Congratulations. :cheers:
Robert
Title: Re: 'WIDE A WAKE' a steam launch tale
Post by: Dave Otto on August 13, 2014, 01:26:00 AM
Thanks for taking us along for the ride Ramon.

I will be looking forward to the continuation of this wonderful project when you have time to get back to it.

Dave
Title: Re: 'WIDE A WAKE' a steam launch tale
Post by: Kim on August 13, 2014, 04:04:42 AM
Excellent work on the boiler and the launch, Ramon!  They look beautiful together  :ThumbsUp: :ThumbsUp:
Though I haven't commented much, I've been following along the whole time and enjoyed your build immensely.
Thanks for taking the time to share it with us!
Kim
Title: Re: 'WIDE A WAKE' a steam launch tale
Post by: Jo on August 13, 2014, 05:54:18 AM
Well done Tug  :ThumbsUp:

Looking forward to her going back together and seeing the first sailing.

Jo
Title: Re: 'WIDE A WAKE' a steam launch tale
Post by: Stuart on August 13, 2014, 06:29:34 AM
Bet you you have a nice fuzzy feeling after that test run

The time to raise steam would be about right for a gas fired boiler , coal firing in a belpire type boiler is about the same but the do have a lot more fire tubes


Glad the burner performed in place

Stuart
Title: Re: 'WIDE A WAKE' a steam launch tale
Post by: sco on August 13, 2014, 08:12:21 AM
Brilliant job on the boiler Ramon - love the picture of it sat in the launch.  Can't understand how you can leave it and get on with another project - I'd be itching to get it afloat!

Simon.
Title: Re: 'WIDE A WAKE' a steam launch tale
Post by: steamer on August 13, 2014, 11:34:38 AM
That came out wonderful Ramon!   You might consider an economizer loop in the stack, they are very efficient in that the difference in temperature is quite high, and will help with the fuel consumption.

Dave
Title: Re: 'WIDE A WAKE' a steam launch tale
Post by: Ramon on August 13, 2014, 03:31:09 PM
Robert, Dave, Kim, et al - thanks for the kind response.

Robert - Good luck with that house move and rebuild of your workshop - hope it won't be too long before you get back onto your boat.

Kim - nice to hear from you. It's always nice to hear that people (other than the 'regulars'  ;)) are following along - I know other people are looking by the number of views but sometimes there's a distinct anxiety of 'is this what members really want' when nothing is heard. Posting takes a lot of time - not just the actual posting but thinking ahead and taking pics as you work too so to hear the coverage is appreciated is encouraging.

Dave - good to hear from you. It wont be that long before work resumes - just need to put something else to bed first ;)

Jo - it'll be a while yet but 'wet it will get'  ;)

Simon - This is the way I have found best (haven't found an ideal way though) to deal with 'conflict of interest'. Break it down into 'stages' and have a change rather than start something else and let it languish (Hasn't done much for the McOnie or the Bentley though  ::) ) - Does any one else suffer from this 'conflict' problem?

Steamer - is that as an alternative location to the one in the back of the flue? Given that there is nowhere near the heat coming out of the funnel as expected I was wondering if that actually needs the stainless baffle I have fitted. On the face of it it would also
appear to support Georges thoughts that the steam drier tube, set in the lower flue would be fine from a deterioration point of view.

I've had a real busy morning in the garden  :o only poked my head through the w'shop door just to make sure it was still there  ;)


Regards - Ramon
Title: Re: 'WIDE A WAKE' a steam launch tale
Post by: SandCam on August 13, 2014, 03:41:32 PM
Hi Ramon,

What a wonderful piece of work you have produced, you can certainly be very proud of that hull, it is stunning, and the new boiler is a masterpiece.
I am very pleased the burner is performing it's job properly, albeit, it needed some minor changes to the original design.
Did you monitor the steam pressure whilst running the D10?... how did the pressure hold up with the reduced burner?

Yes it has been a long road, but very worthwhile... when I look back to the original and compare it to the latest, it would seem impossible that they share anything in common... It just goes to prove that with dedication and determination anything can be achieved.
As for my SMALL input, well it was only a load of calculations at the end of the day and a few pointers :shrug:, wherase you have done a remarkable job of the actual engineering. :NotWorthy:

Setting up an outside gas source for initial boiler heating is a very good idea, since this can be from a much larger tank and only requires a change-over valve arrangement to be installed (prior to any gas pressure regulator if installed)... it will certainly make a considerable difference to the sailing time... are you planning on some form of boiler water feed?

Congratulations on a job extremely well done.

I look forward to the next stages of Wide a Wake.

Best regards.

Sandy. :D

PS. I hope you enjoy the Nats, I wish I could join you there... if you see Bernie Langworth around the TR circuits give him my regards.(Ex Wanstead Warhawks)
Title: Re: 'WIDE A WAKE' a steam launch tale
Post by: b.lindsey on August 13, 2014, 03:51:26 PM
Excellent Ramon...this has been a wonderful thread to tag along on, and a very well done thread too. Thanks for letting us follow the progress!!

Bill
Title: Re: 'WIDE A WAKE' a steam launch tale
Post by: steamer on August 13, 2014, 03:53:20 PM
Steamer - is that as an alternative location to the one in the back of the flue? Given that there is nowhere near the heat coming out of the funnel as expected I was wondering if that actually needs the stainless baffle I have fitted. On the face of it it would also
appear to support Georges thoughts that the steam drier tube, set in the lower flue would be fine from a deterioration point of view.



No, I think you're thinking superheater....I'm thinking a feedwater heater in the base of the stack.   Of course if your not doing an engine driven feed pump, then it really doesn't help you.   

The other way to heat your feedwater would be to plumb the engine exhaust through a heat exchanger in a tank.    Again...needs a pump to make it work.

I use both a feedwater heater and a economizer on my launch...but no superheat....
Title: Re: 'WIDE A WAKE' a steam launch tale
Post by: tvoght on August 13, 2014, 04:15:48 PM
Ramon,
I would never want to miss any contributions you make here as they are uniformly interesting and informative.

I also really admire your ability to manage your "to work on" list as you do. I'll certainly be watching your current work no matter what.

--Tim
Title: Re: 'WIDE A WAKE' a steam launch tale
Post by: Roger B on August 13, 2014, 05:40:15 PM
Magnificent job  :praise2:  :praise2: The lagging is beautiful and finally running an engine under steam must be a great feeling  :ThumbsUp:  :ThumbsUp:
Title: Re: 'WIDE A WAKE' a steam launch tale
Post by: Ramon on August 13, 2014, 10:52:31 PM
Hi again guys good to hear from you  all  :)

well it was only a load of calculations at the end of the day and a few pointers

Sandy - That may be so to you but to me it proved an enormous help - I can't express my appreciation enough  :ThumbsUp:

Now taking into account my limited experience I would say the burner performed very well - I did adjust the jet position as it was running but could see nor hear no appreciable loss or gain so reset it as shown in the past post. I didn't monitor the steam pressure other than notice it dropped to around half WP once the burner valve was closed in. (The Stuart gauge is reading high - just over 70 psi at a true 60.) It did however maintain that until the gas ran out - the tank then was was quite cold as expected so I anticipated gas would be left and the pressure had dropped. Once disconnected however there was very little gas left inside, just a quick puff when the tank valve was opened to drain it. I think it will require another run at some stage with pre heating then monitoring the gas consumption on a full tank. Good to hear you favour an external supply so, as already decided, a regulator will be fitted in due course along with an external connection. It's my intention to make the gas tank and regulator along with all piping removable by undoing just one connection.

It's intended to fit two boiler feeds - an engine driven pump and a hand pump for emergencies. There are two water tanks (disguised as coal bunkers) fitted either side of the boiler which will be interconnected, the hand pump possibly 'hidden' inside one of them.

This brings me on to Steamer -

We may be at crossed purposes here Dave (apologies for repeating pics but it will save referring backwards) - I have fitted a coil of tubing, connected to the main steam pipe, running down inside the flue from the top to act as a steam 'drier' - I don't think this would be considered a super-heater but it's obviously doing a similar service.
(https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-fTireyv5SzI/U86--aIzdbI/AAAAAAAAJps/6T__6o4lR8E/s912/DSCF5074.JPG)

(https://lh4.googleusercontent.com/-aNulddwN0AE/U86-_-QK7GI/AAAAAAAAJp4/LM-DIZoz1wA/s912/DSCF5076.JPG)

The feed water will be pumped by the engine pump around this coil which is fitted in the back end of the flue before entering the boiler via a clack valve.
(https://lh4.googleusercontent.com/-Qm_GDXI3KHs/U-PZ86DtBlI/AAAAAAAAJu0/0zc4A1pLA4U/s912/DSCF5194.JPG)

(https://lh4.googleusercontent.com/-R8E82aMoA2w/U-PaB51tT9I/AAAAAAAAJvM/MM-vpRjrGb8/s912/DSCF5218.JPG)

The brass hexagon now carries a 40 mm diameter 20swg stainless disc perforated with six 4mm holes to act as a heat shield to prevent the water from boiling before getting into the boiler - well that's the thinking anyway - but given the amount of heat absorbtion of the flame that may actually not be necessary.

I was always under the impression that a 'feedwater heater' pre-heated the water before pumping ie with heat exchanger in the tank as you suggest and an 'economiser', normally fitted inside the boiler backhead heated it after pumping. Would that be right?

If so I guess that brings me back to my question - would you think an economiser in the funnel be as effective (or more) as this one in the end of the flue?


Another couple of questions please

Given that the Stuart gauge is reading high is it possible to adjust the needle back onto the stop? It currently sits at about 10 psi

Is it okay to store the boiler with water in or should it be drained after each use?

Regards - Ramon

PS Sandy - I will look Bernie out for you - I'm meeting up with Alan Knight who hails from your old neck of the woods. Alan makes some stunning engines including some very powerful 'Olivers'



Title: Re: 'WIDE A WAKE' a steam launch tale
Post by: steamer on August 14, 2014, 04:56:32 AM
Nope missed that.  That would do Fine Ramon.  Just perhaps more of it.

If your out of room on the back of the flue...the next place would be the stack, but I would pump the feed there first, then to the back of the flue....


Wonderful Job Ramon, always a pleasure to see your builds

Dave
Title: Re: 'WIDE A WAKE' a steam launch tale
Post by: Stuart on August 14, 2014, 07:28:53 AM
Ramon

It's always good practice to blow down the boiler after use

Two reasons
One to get rid of scale ans sludge
Two to empty it



Note this is done when the pressure is down to about 20 psi

Note to all this does not apply to steel boilers the AFAIK should be blown down but left ful with the tanning compound in the water or left dry with a small heater ( lamp) to keep them dry , but I may be wrong on this

Stuart
Title: Re: 'WIDE A WAKE' a steam launch tale
Post by: Ramon on August 14, 2014, 12:15:40 PM
Thanks Dave - I'll bear that in mind. I'll wait until I have an engine pump fitted and then check to see how hot the pumped water gets before carrying out any mods though.

Talking of mods - the one thing I overlooked Stuart (along with a bush for the whistle feed ::)) was a blow down valve. Well it won't be getting one now so it will have to be emptied by syringe - as far as one can reach inside that is.

Thanks guys

Still leaves the question on resetting the needle on Stuart pressure gauge - anyone know if this can be done?

Regards - Ramon
Title: Re: 'WIDE A WAKE' a steam launch tale
Post by: Stuart on August 14, 2014, 12:24:09 PM
Ramon

Yes it can be done with care needle nose pliers are the order of the day

Just give it a twist the needle is only pressed on

Stuart
Title: Re: 'WIDE A WAKE' a steam launch tale
Post by: Maryak on August 14, 2014, 02:30:08 PM
Ramon

It's always good practice to blow down the boiler after use

Two reasons
One to get rid of scale ans sludge
Two to empty it



Note this is done when the pressure is down to about 20 psi

Note to all this does not apply to steel boilers the AFAIK should be blown down but left ful with the tanning compound in the water or left dry with a small heater ( lamp) to keep them dry , but I may be wrong on this

Stuart

Hi Stuart,

From my time with boilers IIRC it is bad practice to empty a boiler by blowing it down. With firetube boilers, the boiler is normally pumped to a full glass then allowed to remain banked until the sludge has settled then a blow down to half a glass. The boiler is then allowed to cool at its own rate. When cold either fill it to WW and add anti oxidant or run down to empty and insert the drier. The reason for not blowing down to empty is because of the stresses set up by rapid removal of the hot water/steam from shell creating a larger than is desirable temperature difference across the metal parts. The metal and gas path are still hot and will induce draft through the boiler which is pretty well ambient air temperature.

Respectfully
Bob

Title: Re: 'WIDE A WAKE' a steam launch tale
Post by: Ramon on August 15, 2014, 10:28:32 AM
Thanks Stuart  :ThumbsUp:

I didn't want to try anything without being sure - I know it has to come apart at some stage to be 'red lined' but they are too expensive a little item to mess up when your not sure how they are put together. I'll deal with it in due course then.

On that note I'm going to call it a day on this phase now so it will be awhile before any further updates. As usual thanks for looking in and all your input - look forward to 'seeing' you all again later in the year  :)

Regards - Ramon
Title: Re: 'WIDE A WAKE' a steam launch tale
Post by: Ramon on January 10, 2015, 08:10:37 PM
Hi Guys

It's been a while since there's been anything to post about but at last there's some small progress to report on this project. The main thing is it's 'back on the stocks' with nothing too much on the immediate horizon as distraction so hopefully there will be a good bit of advancement to cover in the coming weeks

In the last week the floor bearers for the boiler and engine mount plate have been shaped to fit the planks and epoxied in place. The 5mm thick ali plate - a nice gift from an old work colleague visiting me at Xmas - three pieces of it too  :D - just needed cleaning up on the edges and it was ready to fit.
Incidentally those floor bearers came from some very old Sapele like wood given to me many years back. Rescued from the Brooke Marine shipyard as it was closing down it was apparently the base of a yard made barrow for moving metal plate about. When it was broken up it was discovered that the axle was from a Model T Ford - wonder how much work that witnessed over the years

Anyway - here's the new start
(https://lh5.googleusercontent.com/-BMIwHQ3Rtb0/VLF0pDlfSTI/AAAAAAAAMpE/UtQby6p3Jd8/s912/DSCF6382.JPG)

(https://lh6.googleusercontent.com/-RkFbmkyfWgE/VLF0pJz8D-I/AAAAAAAAMpI/4gGQoofgFHg/s912/DSCF6383.JPG)

Not much, agreed but it is something ;)

Tomorrow sees me hit my three score and ten  :o - when that Feb issue of Model Boats featuring this boat dropped on the mat it would have been the January in 1972 so I would have just made 27 by a day or so - me thinks it's time I best get this finished ;)

Regards for now - Ramon
Title: Re: 'WIDE A WAKE' a steam launch tale
Post by: b.lindsey on January 10, 2015, 08:23:11 PM
That is beautiful Ramon, happy you have had some time to work on it and will look forward to seeing more progress.

Bill
Title: Re: 'WIDE A WAKE' a steam launch tale
Post by: vcutajar on January 10, 2015, 08:27:20 PM
Happy Birthday.

 :cheers:

 :DrinkPint:

Vince
Title: Re: 'WIDE A WAKE' a steam launch tale
Post by: Roger B on January 10, 2015, 08:28:54 PM
Glad to see you back on this project  :ThumbsUp:  :ThumbsUp: Still following along  :DrinkPint:  :popcorn:
Title: Re: 'WIDE A WAKE' a steam launch tale
Post by: Jasonb on January 10, 2015, 08:30:30 PM
Comming along well Ramon, will you be making your own universal joint to go between engine and prop shaft or using a commercial one.

J

PS don't overdo it on the cake!!
Title: Re: 'WIDE A WAKE' a steam launch tale
Post by: Ramon on January 10, 2015, 08:38:26 PM
Thanks guys - no not doing anything special - just Sues two brothers and in laws so won't be overdoing anything  ;)

Thanks to some info from George (K.B.C.) I began a tapered flywheel mount tonight which will incorporate one half of the UV joint. It's going to be the basic two dog pin type driving slots in a disc on the prop shaft.

It'll be Monday before I can get back on that so a bit more on that later

Thanks again - Ramon
Title: Re: 'WIDE A WAKE' a steam launch tale
Post by: AussieJimG on January 10, 2015, 08:41:56 PM
That is looking good Ramon. And Happy Birthday.

Jim
Title: Re: 'WIDE A WAKE' a steam launch tale
Post by: Stilldrillin on January 10, 2015, 09:04:00 PM
Happy Birthday, for tomorrow, Ramon!  :cheers:

I'm a year, or so ahead of you. And, it's quite true...... Every day, is a bonus, from now on!  :old:

Very pleased to see you're back, on this wonderful project again......  :praise2:

David D
Title: Re: 'WIDE A WAKE' a steam launch tale
Post by: ths on January 10, 2015, 10:24:28 PM
As a fan of this thread, I'm glad to see it moving on, and at a very fitting time. All the best for the day. Cheers, Hugh.
Title: Re: 'WIDE A WAKE' a steam launch tale
Post by: Maryak on January 10, 2015, 11:12:19 PM
Happy Birthday, for tomorrow, Ramon!  :cheers:

I'm a year, or so ahead of you. And, it's quite true...... Every day, is a bonus, from now on!  :old:

Very pleased to see you're back, on this wonderful project again......  :praise2:

David D


Me 2

Best Regards
Bob
Title: Re: 'WIDE A WAKE' a steam launch tale
Post by: Don1966 on January 10, 2015, 11:47:24 PM
Your project is coming together beautifully and Happy Birthday Ramon.

Don
Title: Re: 'WIDE A WAKE' a steam launch tale
Post by: mike mott on January 11, 2015, 02:21:23 AM
Ramon I am also glad to see more progress on the project. and congratulations on the three score and ten.

mike
Title: Re: 'WIDE A WAKE' a steam launch tale
Post by: metalmad on January 11, 2015, 03:57:05 AM
Happy Birthday Ramon
Your build is incredible, a real Inspiration!
Pete
Title: Re: 'WIDE A WAKE' a steam launch tale
Post by: fumopuc on January 11, 2015, 05:20:10 AM
Hi Ramon, Happy Birthday. I like your boat. Good to see some progress is done.
Title: Re: 'WIDE A WAKE' a steam launch tale
Post by: K.B.C on January 11, 2015, 04:04:22 PM
Ramon,
Glad to be of help with the tapered F/Wheel.
You will have plenty of space at the rear end of the engine and the boiler end to fit the drive for an engine driven feed pump on the Ali bed plate.
I hope that there is a 3/16" dia x 7/16" deep hole in the end of the engine shaft to fit the 3/16" dia extension to carry the worm wheel and shaft.

Your workmanship with wood and metal is an insparation which makes me try even harder.

Best wishes on your 70th.

George.
Title: Re: 'WIDE A WAKE' a steam launch tale
Post by: Ramon on January 12, 2015, 10:28:40 AM
Hi Guys, Thanks to all of you for your kind emails, PMs and posts as well as those comments of support on the project. I'll keep you well posted on the progress  ;)

I had a very quiet but pleasant day with Sues family - the gift of a nice peaty malt went down really well  :) but now it's time to get back into the workshop.

Back a while later then,

Thanks again - Ramon
Title: Re: 'WIDE A WAKE' a steam launch tale
Post by: Ramon on January 23, 2015, 10:03:18 PM
Hi Guys - just a short update on present 'state of play'.

After making the tapered flywheel mount to George's design I had to remake the bearers as the previous ones were too shallow and slightly the wrong angle - what comes of 'cut and try' I guess as there are no drawings of such.
(https://lh5.googleusercontent.com/-kbUjIQbu8nI/VMK3zDheqWI/AAAAAAAAMqk/7SQgqAK3bUI/s912/DSCF6407.JPG)

The flywheel mount works very well and locks very tightly with little torque on the nut. Once the bearers were right the whole thing aligned well and turns over very smoothly - it was given a good test run on air ;)
(https://lh5.googleusercontent.com/-ULadPk1dcK4/VMK3yw3bblI/AAAAAAAAMqg/65qHZq0LTxc/s912/DSCF6401.JPG)

With the engine and boiler positions well established it was time to start back on the build proper. First up was to cut some strip wood for the stringers - it came from a piece of parana pine shelf that I put up in the kitchen when first moving in here in 1975 - well seasoned then  ;) The strips were a bit small to run through the planer so a jury rigged one was cobbled together on the mill using a three pieces of ply and a 6mm FC3 cutter run at top speed - it worked very well providing the cuts were kept around 0.1- 0.15 mm
(https://lh6.googleusercontent.com/-iVr_CPFHUvY/VMK3tAX7wbI/AAAAAAAAMqE/cNMBgu-sZQA/s912/DSCF6391.JPG)

(https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-CuofwqgDG8g/VMK3tDDMQNI/AAAAAAAAMqM/4P6FoUWxKnI/s912/DSCF6388.JPG)
These strips were from the outer surface of the shelf and were going to be discarded because of the varnish but this little 'planer' made short work of that without the anticipated clogging
A light sanding was all that was required to finish and they were ready to fit - more rivets to form and point though ::)

With the two lower stringers in place, today saw the final rivet (I think) get peened over when fitting the two top stringers. No - I haven't counted them  :D
(https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-_QyV8q2rJ64/VMK3tawvVPI/AAAAAAAAMqI/OLd9ogT-3xA/s912/DSCF6394.JPG)

(https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-kzo5R1bThHE/VMK32us67OI/AAAAAAAAMq0/bGBywVvAsSA/s912/DSCF6415.JPG)

And so the 'fitting out' can begin  :) The bearer for the gas tank shelf was glued in and the main deck beam and the mooring post and carlings trial fitted....
(https://lh5.googleusercontent.com/-YWgQVff7_OE/VMK3xCYKEII/AAAAAAAAMqU/QQvjAYEd9a4/s912/DSCF6395.JPG)

...then finally tonight the main deck beam was glued and clamped
(https://lh4.googleusercontent.com/-t5D5ZHNnXA8/VMK31BIFzRI/AAAAAAAAMqs/q6KERwvwlEQ/s912/DSCF6411.JPG)

It's been absolutely great to be able to get back onto this - the last few days a complete change from machining and very satisfying.  I'm certainly looking forwards to seeing it develop over the coming weeks

As usual, hope that's of use or interest to some

Regards - Ramon

Title: Re: 'WIDE A WAKE' a steam launch tale
Post by: Maryak on January 23, 2015, 10:14:29 PM
Hi Ramon,

Beautiful work I am in awe!

With such a magnificent wooden hull do you intend to make, for want of a  better term, some form of drip tray and splash guards to  stop lubricant and the inevitable condensate from staining/being absorbed into the hull and engine mounts?

An old wooden hull paddler which I operated a few years back had no such barrier and some of the metal/wood interfaces were in less than pristine condition as a result.

Best Regards
Bob
Title: Re: 'WIDE A WAKE' a steam launch tale
Post by: Robert Hornby on January 24, 2015, 04:09:46 AM
Very nice work indeed Ramon, :praise2: I can only hope my efforts are a fraction of your skills/quality build and then I will be most pleased. I am very close to recommencing on finishing the boiler.
Robert
Title: Re: 'WIDE A WAKE' a steam launch tale
Post by: Don1966 on January 24, 2015, 04:50:23 AM
That is one beautiful looking vessel you have there Ramon. Looking at it without size reference you would thing it was a full size vessel. awesome work my friend!  :praise2:


 :popcorn:

Don
Title: Re: 'WIDE A WAKE' a steam launch tale
Post by: derekwarner on January 24, 2015, 05:22:44 AM
Ramon...thankyou...this is a superbly detailed viewing of Georges taper lock mounting method for the flywheel  etc

One question....... does the inboard face of the drive dog coupling 1/2 press squarely against the outboard face of the brass hex compression nut when fully assembled?

The reason I ask is that whilst we can see the dimple in the shaft for the coupling to lock into, the actual length of the shaft journal to the length of the coupling 1/2 seems short

Again beautiful work and clear descriptive images  :cheers: ... Derek
Title: Re: 'WIDE A WAKE' a steam launch tale
Post by: Jasonb on January 24, 2015, 08:10:44 AM
I'm certainly looking forwards to seeing it develop over the coming weeks

I don't think you are the only one looking forward to it Ramon, comming along nicely.

J

PS I hope Sue won't miss here shelf too much :-[
Title: Re: 'WIDE A WAKE' a steam launch tale
Post by: b.lindsey on January 24, 2015, 02:35:54 PM
Beautiful Ramon. I am very much looking forward to your continued progress as well. Your attention to detail is amazing!!

Bill
Title: Re: 'WIDE A WAKE' a steam launch tale
Post by: Ramon on January 24, 2015, 11:29:06 PM
Hi guys - thanks for looking in  :)

Nothing done today as we were sailing - first time on the water since last November when the pond was drained for cleaning. Had to break the ice on half of it first though but we had one of those lovely bright, clear, but very cold January days - it was good to be back on the water after such a layoff.

Bob - I share your concern over the effluent that gets thrown around. The whole boiler/engine package should come out with just four screws to undo but there will be the linkages to the reverse and regulator plus gas and water pipes to consider - haven't given that too much thought at this stage. I intend to fit a drip tray between the bearers to catch engine oil but the stuff that gets thrown around - well  :shrug: I usually enjoy the painting stage of modelling but admit I'm not looking forwards to doing the inside of this with all it's nooks and crannies etc. I intend to epoxy coat the area inside the lower stringers and then paint that over with the rest being varnished - hopefully that will
prevent too much ingress of oil and water. I can see that the one stage that will take some time on this model is going to be the painting (varnishing)

Derek - yes the coupling half backs right up to the nut but there is only a very small land for it to sit on on the engine side of the relief groove. The coupling has two grubscrews set at 90 degrees - we'll have to see how it holds up before shortening the thread and nut and making a longer coupling if required.

Don - this is the first time I have made anything like this though have done an awful lot of 'balsa bashing' over the years. However I'm trying to emulate the full size where skills allow without resorting too much to the aeromodeller's 'cut and stick in place' approach.

Robert - you've had a long break with that house move - good luck when you do get back on to your boiler

Jason - the shelf was removed in '97  ;) it's been sitting here waiting for something to be made from it since  ::).

As usual, thanks for your comments guys - hopefully I'll get a good day on it tomorrow.

Regards - Ramon




Title: Re: 'WIDE A WAKE' a steam launch tale
Post by: LittleGhost on January 29, 2015, 10:54:22 PM
Hi,
I dont really know what to say! Another long read that was well worth it, utterly mind blowing work and it makes you want to go and give it a try, I am not saying I could even get 10% near to that quality but I would love to have a go with something a bit smaller.
Utterly fantastic write up and well worth the 6 hours it took to read it all carefully, thanks alot for sharing this it has been nail biting in places lol.
I cant add anything that hasnt been said already but as a complete newby just starting on the first treads its helped focus me alot on what I would like to build. :NotWorthy:
Title: Re: 'WIDE A WAKE' a steam launch tale
Post by: Ramon on January 30, 2015, 11:28:26 PM
Hi - Having not been on here for a while I was surprised to see this last post. I didn't recognise the user name so have spent some time searching.

Logan, Thank you for your comments but what you see here is what has taken many years to achieve - it didn't happen overnight but, very much as you appear to convey I was always inspired by the work of others and have always tried to continually improve on whatever it is I have aspired to. That this thread seems to have had the same affect on you gives me great satisfaction and I truly hope that a modelling 'career', wherever it takes you, will prove as enjoyable to you as it has to me over my lifetime.


Well guys I've had a reasonably productive few days and the boat has leapt forward another stage. Here are a few pics to bring you up to date (as of yesterday)

With the for' beam in, the support blocks for the coaming were next to be tackled. This was a somewhat tedious cut and trial fit, cut again etc., one block at a time to get the curve right - it increases in width slightly from stern forwards
(https://lh4.googleusercontent.com/-dfhhS5ytWpM/VMfxFGeA_pI/AAAAAAAAMrc/O1rAkDgv20I/s912/DSCF6416.JPG)

Once in (glued and screwed) they then had to be faired to the sheer and camber. Problem with this op was the constant kneeling down and consequent getting up to check the sheer - I really am beginning to feel my age in the oldpins  :old:
(https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-Dg34lhgX6QY/VMfxE9yIPEI/AAAAAAAAMrg/Caf77P4uDWo/s912/DSCF6421.JPG)

(https://lh4.googleusercontent.com/-waVkcpYfzYw/VMfxE2wBo1I/AAAAAAAAMrY/XZC360an4DI/s912/DSCF6424.JPG)

Finally the (false) coaming could be glued in situ. The mahogany coaming proper will be glued in turn to this at a later stage after the decks are laid.
(https://lh6.googleusercontent.com/-StTmOhuI61E/VMlSWHhEwpI/AAAAAAAAMr8/t-8GANmi62c/s912/DSCF6430.JPG)

The curved fore piece was laminated from two thicknesses of thin birch ply
(https://lh6.googleusercontent.com/-HAzZWCYjssY/VMlSWJasMkI/AAAAAAAAMsA/p7X6gLmZcDs/s912/DSCF6440.JPG)

And so after a good hoover out  the hull is ready for the next stage
(https://lh6.googleusercontent.com/-Z1JnMrBvXgY/VMvSH18b3YI/AAAAAAAAMsg/aUl-w8_T3yE/s912/DSCF6442.JPG)

(https://lh5.googleusercontent.com/--gWj7LhQEkA/VMvSHxZ2rmI/AAAAAAAAMsk/jyIUx53IaAE/s912/DSCF6444.JPG)

(https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-B3BTzDwlJeE/VMvSH84oRUI/AAAAAAAAMso/j8x5XEjaKc4/s912/DSCF6445.JPG)

I took a break today but will start next week on getting the cockpit bulkhead in and fitting an aft compartment to house the rudder servo and R/C gear as well as beginning to get those first layers of 'varnish' on before fitting the deck and planking it.

It's really beginning to take shape now - when I think it's taken forty three years to get round to making it I still can't quite believe its gone so well.

Regards - Ramon

Title: Re: 'WIDE A WAKE' a steam launch tale
Post by: LittleGhost on January 30, 2015, 11:43:01 PM
I always thought I was a speed boat kinda person, but apparently not! Those lines are so............... I dunno they are just really sleek and it screams out elegance. I fully understand how long it would of taken to acquire the skill to do this, but when something like this is done so well it really makes you want to try and create something of real beauty. I doubt it would matter very much to me if mine turned out looking like a lump of wood with some metal bits sticking out of it!!! For me thats the power of this kind of forum, reading and seeing how it was done in small steps makes you want to have a go. Seeing something finished is cool but seeing something progress is really special, once again I congratulate you on your creation.
Fast helicopters and funky quad copter are a laugh to make and fly, I never thought about making a boat but steam (my interest I guess) just seems to fit boats really well. I am so looking forward to watching this build complete
Best regards
LG

P.S its so easy to just read a thread and say nothing, but I thought it was worth telling you how much of an impression its made
Title: Re: 'WIDE A WAKE' a steam launch tale
Post by: b.lindsey on January 31, 2015, 12:38:55 AM
Lovely work Ramon, I can understand how tedious it was too. Now you have set the bar really high for the next person to follow in your footsteps.

Bill
Title: Re: 'WIDE A WAKE' a steam launch tale
Post by: Don1966 on January 31, 2015, 02:59:50 AM
She's shaping up very nice Ramon. It,s a pity it took forty years to get to where we see this lovely bit of craftsmanship. But if you would of built it that long ago we wouldn't be druling over it now would we? What really intrigues me the most is all those rivets. You have made something here to really be proud of and once the engine and boiler is installed it will be a thing to really drule over. Enjoy every post my friend.

Don
Title: Re: 'WIDE A WAKE' a steam launch tale
Post by: steamer on January 31, 2015, 09:48:58 AM
That looks great Ramon!   The coaming was something I agonized over, and finally I made mine the same way you made yours.  I laminated the fore and aft curves.  there was very little drama once I made that decision, and glad I did as it didn't require any steaming, just a hot water treatment and it bent in place just fine.


Dave
Title: Re: 'WIDE A WAKE' a steam launch tale
Post by: fumopuc on January 31, 2015, 07:15:44 PM
Hi Ramon, your boat is really beautiful. A very impressive work, I like it.
Title: Re: 'WIDE A WAKE' a steam launch tale
Post by: ths on January 31, 2015, 08:44:50 PM
Every machining forum needs a thread on a bit of wonderful woodworking. It's looking great Ramon, inspiring to many of us, I'm quite sure.

Cheers, Hugh.
Title: Re: 'WIDE A WAKE' a steam launch tale
Post by: metalmad on January 31, 2015, 09:41:46 PM
WOW
Pete
Title: Re: 'WIDE A WAKE' a steam launch tale
Post by: Ramon on February 02, 2015, 02:26:24 PM
Logan, Bill, Don, Dave, Achim, Hugh and Pete - thanks for looking in.

Logan - thank you for your thoughts - much appreciated.

Don, I tried really hard not to think about the rivetting that was going to have to take place  :o As it turned out, taking it one or two planks at a time it wasn't that bad. The forming of the heads was easy once set up the only tedious bit was having to form a semblance of a point on every one in order to get them to enter the drilled holes.

They were all done as required with a needle file thus...
(https://lh5.googleusercontent.com/-w236r1SicpY/VM9_hR9Eq1I/AAAAAAAAMtI/cyY6Ss95sBk/s800/DSCF6453.JPG)

The pliers were an inexpensive pair borrowed from the 'plastic' side of the workshop. After a while grooves began to appear where the edge of the file ran - I now have the makings of a 'very fine' snipe nosed pair  ;)

Dave - Though I really didn't want to use any in this build I used ply as I didn't think the timber would take the curve even with steaming - it's quite old and very dry. It will be hid after all so doesn't matter - just not what I would have liked.  I intend to laminate the finished coaming with 1/32" layers of mahogany and fit a top rail to disguise the laminations.


I took the hull to the boat building college (http://www.ibtc.co.uk/ (http://www.ibtc.co.uk/)) this morning for one last bit of advice on how to fit the bulkhead. As before, made most welcome and plenty of advice given and taken on board (oops) It made my day when the instructor insisted the boat was taken through to be shown to the students. I handed it over to one young man who, somewhat surprised, stood there with it in his arms surrounded by his fellows whilst I took the opportunity to look over a beautiful carvel planked open boat of similar lines and trying to take in as much as I could without taking up too much of their time.

I can now get on with the next stage  :) - back soon

Regards - Ramon
Title: Re: 'WIDE A WAKE' a steam launch tale
Post by: Ramon on February 05, 2015, 10:12:20 PM
Hi Guys - I've had three good days in the workshop and another 'stage' completed. Armed with the info on how a bulkhead would be fitted to a clinker launch of this type I had a go at their suggestion with a bit of modelling licence.

I was told that the bulkhead would not contact the planks at any point but a thin gap would be left. A frame needed erecting mounted on the hog and stringer and riser (the lengthwise strips) and the bulkhead created using tongue and grooved boards attached from the frame.

First up was to get the frame in. The top rail was created from parana pine hung from blocks with a mahogany cap rail attached.
(https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-UqUNJ9rToi8/VNKPMKqoqmI/AAAAAAAAMtw/mAtQ4-zGwOI/s912/DSCF6463.JPG)
The post for the steering wheel went in at the same time to support the centre. Some 'modelling licence' applied here as it is only glued in situ however it will get a steel angle reinforcing across the front at a later stage.

The cap rail sits flush at the rear but over laps the front for the boards to recess under - that knee will get a couple of screws at some stage too.
(https://lh5.googleusercontent.com/-6GMop6FF01I/VNKPL_djcnI/AAAAAAAAMto/7VqW6sc66VA/s912/DSCF6467.JPG)

After quite a bit of cut and try making a thick card template the lower rails were formed from two parts of pine with a long halving joint. They sit proud of the planks as instructed, glued in place with a token rivet for effect
(https://lh6.googleusercontent.com/-xXByHj-N8YE/VNKPMEwPkGI/AAAAAAAAMts/fPheC_2DgeY/s912/DSCF6473.JPG)
 
A card template was made for each board in turn, the board cut from some darker parana and the edges bevelled to give a T&G effect. A slip of 1/32 ply was temporarily placed under each lower edge to create a reasonably consistent gap. (I've just noticed it's still in place on the last board ::)  - top right board)
(https://lh6.googleusercontent.com/-CQZlnV-fw_4/VNPeUJRe2fI/AAAAAAAAMuU/fkZZlBxCvEQ/s912/DSCF6475.JPG)

It occurred to me as that last plank went in that possibly, in reality, these boards would sit the opposite way ie the rails would be on the engine side - the 'aesthetic' side in the passenger area - something not discussed but certainly too late now  ::) Incidentally, on that note - I may have mentioned before, but the glue used throughout (except for the odd bit of epoxy) is TiteBond 3, a waterproof PVA. The one thing that never fails to impress with this glue is it's remarkable grab time - a good but slightly misplaced joint really needs some force to open it after only a couple of mins. I can certainly recommend it as a damn good all round wood glue.

So this is what it looks like as of tonight
(https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-xqtQWTbkaLI/VNPeUMF7oeI/AAAAAAAAMuc/VlB40PxVZnU/s912/DSCF6479.JPG)

(https://lh4.googleusercontent.com/-UtHL5R1M4hU/VNPeVlCOdCI/AAAAAAAAMuk/Nwvyp3Q5Unc/s912/DSCF6493.JPG)

(https://lh4.googleusercontent.com/-xNxFku18kIk/VNPeULLEAjI/AAAAAAAAMuY/Oc6NGH5icnI/s912/DSCF6487.JPG)

Next stage is to get the rudder system set up then a false bulkhead made to create an aft 'compartment' to hide it all but give easy access. Once that's done I can get the interior completely varnished and painted then those decks can go on  :)

Well to coin a phrase - 'That's all folks' for this week. I have a lot of prep work on the yachts tomorrow for Saturday's sailing - always assuming the pond is not frozen over again  ::).

Regards to all who are still tuning in - Ramon
Title: Re: 'WIDE A WAKE' a steam launch tale
Post by: ths on February 05, 2015, 11:26:44 PM
I'm really enjoying this Ramon, regards in return! Hugh.
Title: Re: 'WIDE A WAKE' a steam launch tale
Post by: mklotz on February 05, 2015, 11:32:10 PM
Damn, that's beautiful!  Superb work.

Are you going  to blow a tiny glass bottle to fill with champagne and break it over the bow when it's done?
Title: Re: 'WIDE A WAKE' a steam launch tale
Post by: Don1966 on February 05, 2015, 11:54:49 PM
Looks great Ramon and still following this superb thread.

Don
Title: Re: 'WIDE A WAKE' a steam launch tale
Post by: b.lindsey on February 06, 2015, 12:26:37 AM
Simply beautiful Ramon. So much detail in your work and it all shows!!

Bill
Title: Re: 'WIDE A WAKE' a steam launch tale
Post by: Robert Hornby on February 06, 2015, 01:06:35 AM
Well Ramon, I am totally awestruck and majorly impressed.  :NotWorthy: Gold star award from me. Also you are giving me lots of ideas for my hull later on. :cheers:
Robert
Title: Re: 'WIDE A WAKE' a steam launch tale
Post by: steamer on February 06, 2015, 02:04:05 AM
That looks great Ramon!

I laminated my coaming from two layers of 5mm thick Spanish Cedar.    It worked very well, and is very strong!

Dave
Title: Re: 'WIDE A WAKE' a steam launch tale
Post by: Ramon on February 07, 2015, 07:45:13 PM
Hi Guys - thanks for looking in and all the kind comments

Marv - a launch party is planned  ;) - champagne naturally  ;) ;) and who know's might even have to get dressed up for the occasion

Dave I'm not familiar with Spanish Cedar but it sounds good. As said I'm planning on using 'mahogany' - but need to make sure I can find a bit with reasonably fine grain. I've been mulling over what to do the deck planking with - somewhat lighter in colour than the Parana if I can. I was thinking perhaps Bass but remembered yesterday I have three pieces of Box squirrelled away - that might be a bit too yellow though.

For the last couple of days I've been thinking that I've had a good overdose of wood dust with the relevant symptoms however having been sailing - yep, more bloody ice breaking for best part of the morning - I can confirm Sues diagnosis of full blown 'Man-Flu' - a few days off  then  ;) but back soon as poss to get on with that rudder system.

Thanks again guys - Ramon
Title: Re: 'WIDE A WAKE' a steam launch tale
Post by: ths on February 07, 2015, 08:47:31 PM
Cigar boxes were traditionally made from Spanish cedar. Hugh.
Title: Re: 'WIDE A WAKE' a steam launch tale
Post by: steamer on February 07, 2015, 09:46:44 PM
Hey Hugh,

Yes Spanish cedar is generally most notable for it's use in humidors...but it CAN have a grain and color that looks a lot like mahogany...but at half the weight.

That's why I used it on my boat.

Be careful....it can be green in color as well....you have to sort through and find the stock that has the color you want.

Dave
Title: Re: 'WIDE A WAKE' a steam launch tale
Post by: steamer on February 07, 2015, 09:53:09 PM
http://i164.photobucket.com/albums/u27/mcandrew1894/Steam%20Launch%20Rushforth/P1010028.jpg

Spanish cedar deck with an accent strip of spruce....laid herringbone without a king plank.
Title: Re: 'WIDE A WAKE' a steam launch tale
Post by: SandCam on February 07, 2015, 11:36:15 PM
Absolutely first rate work again Ramon... very nice indeed. :NotWorthy: :praise2:

Pearwood makes a very nice substitute for Mahogany... it is very close grained and has a similar colour when varnished... I use it for boiler lagging, amonst other things, rather than Mahogany for the same reason... Mahogany grain is too heavy for correct scale appearance.

Hope you feel better soon... flu is not nice.

Best regards.

Sandy. :cheers:
Title: Re: 'WIDE A WAKE' a steam launch tale
Post by: 90LX_Notch on February 08, 2015, 03:49:17 AM
Ramon-

Your boat really is a thing of beauty.  Builds like this always amaze me. 

-Bob
Title: Re: 'WIDE A WAKE' a steam launch tale
Post by: Jasonb on February 08, 2015, 07:53:25 AM
If you are looking for a light coloured wood then you could also think of White (unsteamed) beech or hornbeam, both harder than parana and cedar so won't show dents so easily.

J
Title: Re: 'WIDE A WAKE' a steam launch tale
Post by: Roger B on February 08, 2015, 06:51:24 PM
That is indeed a splendid boat  :praise2:  :praise2:
Title: Re: 'WIDE A WAKE' a steam launch tale
Post by: Ramon on February 10, 2015, 07:57:51 PM
Hi Guys - I finally re-surfaced ::) At some stage Sue hovered with this silly grin and all knowing look on her face - " Here, she quips, I got you some proper medication" handing me a small tin the lid of which proclaims in very big letters  'MAN FLU tablets' - for when you're felling really, really, really poorly - I told her it was only a sniffle but no she wouldn't have it  ;D

Thanks for all this thoughtful input ;) but I have to say though Hugh I'm gonna need a bloody big cigar box  ;D

Sandy - I do have some steamed pear but I was intent on getting the decks to be paler than the parana sides. I share your view on the scale effect but the 'mahogany' will only be used for 'trim' - rubbing strakes, breastwork, coaming etc. I do have one piece of parana that has a very speckled grain and is very pale - but I'm not sure if there's enough to finish the job. I was thinking of using this but finishing it with white french polish to keep the original colour but if there's not enough I was edging toward Bass - very close grained, pale and most easy to work - besides I've remembered that there is a good handful of 1/2 x 1/16 strips plus a few 1/16 sheets lurking somewhere bought long past for 'one of those projects' that never quite made it.

Jason I'm not keen on Beech as a general rule and am not familiar with Hornbeam - is that similar to anything else?

Hope to get back into the workshop tomorrow and crack on with the rudder system

Regards - Ramon

Title: Re: 'WIDE A WAKE' a steam launch tale
Post by: Jasonb on February 10, 2015, 08:31:30 PM

Jason I'm not keen on Beech as a general rule and am not familiar with Hornbeam - is that similar to anything else?


Very similar to beech so looks like a no go  ::)

The Lime (bass) should be nice and light in both colour and weight, some of the hobby woodwork suppliers do it in 2" prepared boards in shortish lengths for rocking horse laminations you could rip one of those down if needed. As for cegar box cedar, these people (http://www.exotichardwoods.co.uk/Woods_List/Boxmaker.asp) not far from me do sawn boards and also thinner ones for the box making market.
Title: Re: 'WIDE A WAKE' a steam launch tale
Post by: ths on February 11, 2015, 10:49:07 AM
If you could get some Huon Pine, you'd never regret it. But it's from Tasmania, and probably not readily available over there. Hugh.
Title: Re: 'WIDE A WAKE' a steam launch tale
Post by: Ramon on February 14, 2015, 07:06:26 PM
Hi Guy's - well I got up the loft today and found the Bass I was thinking of  - 1/2 x 1/16" - there was a good amount to be able to select the grain so it looks as if Bass it will be. I tried some of the varnish on it too which gave a lovely pale yellow. Black card for the caulking has been ordered so the makings are near there. I/2" wide at 2" to the foot is 3" of course so that might be a little narrow in scale but offering it up it appears to 'look right' - hope so.

With Sue following me close behind trying to out do me on the Man-Flu stakes I managed to get going around Wednesday time and have managed to progress quite a bit....

The servo mount was made from ali and two blocks glued to the transom to hold it. A slight mod was required in that the outer screws would be difficult to get to so a clamp bracket was made (twice!) to hold the outer end with two screws the other. I made the first bracket from a small piece of unknown black 'plastic'. It had a distinct phenolic smell to it and machined well. However as soon as I tried to drill it it split in two as clean as you like, like a piece of slate. The second one was made from Tufnol.
The rudder linkage was also made - pics later - so the whole could be set up and tried before boxing in the aft compartment similar to the bulkhead. With that done the whole area was varnished before the boarding is applied.
(https://lh4.googleusercontent.com/-sgHI29vF6wA/VN-OP5t9kkI/AAAAAAAAMvE/j4uBevtLG20/s912/DSCF6497.JPG)

Next up was to cut a card template for the fore deck and then cut that from 1/16" ply. I glued this on just before lunch with the TiteBond 3 glue I mentioned a while back .....
(https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-wIbqn_b6DCo/VN-OP2kUcSI/AAAAAAAAMvI/8wEwDcbQ0QA/s912/DSCF6501.JPG)

(https://lh4.googleusercontent.com/-at4McvvU5lI/VN-OQBjUe4I/AAAAAAAAMvM/rsezwj-4T1w/s912/DSCF6510.JPG)

...... and had it trimmed off by three o'clock which is pretty good for a PVA glue bond compared to previous types. The boiler and engine were put in ready for the next bit  ;)
(https://lh4.googleusercontent.com/-CzCqfjnlP3M/VN-OUQ5jr6I/AAAAAAAAMvk/VlcVIikvANU/s912/DSCF6524.JPG)

With the foredeck done it was time to establish just how those side water tanks were going to fit whilst there was still some access down the sides. After a bit of cut and try an end shape was found that averaged the differing hull profiles and a card mock up made.
(https://lh6.googleusercontent.com/-jC-Zz0Pc3eU/VN-OWZOlQSI/AAAAAAAAMv0/stfZPo9Ks18/s912/DSCF6533.JPG)

They will sit either side under the decking and locate onto that top riser as well as a secondary stringer which will need to be put in later
(https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-82ZJk026MC8/VN-OSfDWMEI/AAAAAAAAMvU/mE1IO8KVghQ/s912/DSCF6516.JPG)

The tanks will be made from 20swg brass which I think I might have - haven't actually checked that yet  ::) I'm not sure yet how they'll get folded as yet either as I think my little home made folder is only 6" wide - these are 8" long

That's as far as tonight guys, I must admit though with the boiler in situ I couldn't help clip those side decks on and have an early sneak preview  ;)
(https://lh6.googleusercontent.com/-jL2HVgmohYk/VN-OVXL5rKI/AAAAAAAAMvs/VwhWBcHiFn0/s912/DSCF6528.JPG)

Have a good weekend

Regards to you all  - Ramon
Title: Re: 'WIDE A WAKE' a steam launch tale
Post by: fumopuc on February 14, 2015, 07:17:08 PM
Hi Ramon, WOW. That will  become a really beauty.
Title: Re: 'WIDE A WAKE' a steam launch tale
Post by: Ramon on February 23, 2015, 11:09:36 PM
Hi Achim - glad you like it  :)

Not too much to report but things are slowing down a little as the inside of the hull gets varnished. I'm using a traditional varnish and it's taking the best part of 36-48 hours to dry to the touch even in the warm workshop. It's lovely stuff to use though ;)

The first coat of paint also went on this morning and whilst the varnish and that has been drying attention turned to making those water tanks.

I found some 20swg brass but decided that was a bit too heavy - 22 gauge would have been much better but had none. Hidden at the bottom of the drawer of all things sheet brass however was a large piece of 15 thou shim so that was pressed into service and proved to be ideal.

I was fortunate to be able to use a friends guillotine to cut the main parts out but despite careful marking out and positioning it did cut slightly out of square.
This very useful filing aid was pulled out from under the bench and used to file the end edge square to the sides. Made originally for filing the edges of sheet metal running boards the dust gives a good clue as to it's last use  ;)In use the sheet is clamped with the edge just protruding and is the filed down until the file skates across the steel bar. The main bar is 30 inches long of 4 x 1/2" BMS and the clamp bar is 2 x 1/4"
(https://lh6.googleusercontent.com/-BOKLPNHRviQ/VOeh4rr88hI/AAAAAAAAMxQ/9K0H17H9vG4/s912/DSCF6558.JPG)

It turned out too that the little bender I made at around the same time would actually take 200mm max so it too could be used by reducing the length of the tank body slightly. Made for doing small plate work the clamp bar is held by those two 'waisted' cap heads. Obviously they were no longer going to be an option  :-\
(https://lh5.googleusercontent.com/-l5sVIhwkpR0/VOcfGzOGSzI/AAAAAAAAMwg/S8i2wbADjUU/s912/DSCF6553.JPG)

Though clamping the clamp bar became an issue with a bit of fudging with small clamps it managed the job okay
(https://lh4.googleusercontent.com/-5X3zTPlKLks/VOcfG2sZ9aI/AAAAAAAAMwc/o7XDY-bXmWc/s912/DSCF6546.JPG)

(https://lh4.googleusercontent.com/-Se1Jk8dC0Nk/VOcfG4s9k4I/AAAAAAAAMwk/Kk531BjzuMQ/s912/DSCF6550.JPG)

The entire tank body was bent in one piece with a 6mm overlap. Soldering proved very easy especially having this old buddy to turn to. Totally unused it was one of 'those' bargain bought for a quid at a club sale long ago and has proved it's worth on many occasions when some good solid heat is required
(https://lh6.googleusercontent.com/-lUSWqYepLkw/VOeh4qt413I/AAAAAAAAMxI/uW2tA1bIx28/s912/DSCF6555.JPG)

With the seams of both tanks soldered the ends were formed over MDF formers.....
(https://lh6.googleusercontent.com/-rd5iVC-fnPc/VOuLxb85ESI/AAAAAAAAMzg/Mo4YB0bFSdU/s912/DSCF6613.JPG)

(https://lh5.googleusercontent.com/-OirnOnqta2A/VOuLxlqP0ZI/AAAAAAAAMzo/Et2RVk3d3Fc/s912/DSCF6621.JPG)

...then soldered in place to give two tanks holding just under a litre of water each.
(https://lh6.googleusercontent.com/-la1gWtJW1Kg/VOuLxjlQ4TI/AAAAAAAAMzk/lvdbcCVK0HE/s912/DSCF6626.JPG)

The intention is to make two lifting lid caps to push fit into the rings - we'll see how that pans out.

That's the current state of play - hope those home made items are of interest to someone - though not often used that long clamp is a godsend when you need it.

Regards - Ramon
Title: Re: 'WIDE A WAKE' a steam launch tale
Post by: Don1966 on February 23, 2015, 11:35:20 PM
Awesome work Ramon and those tanks lot a treat. You know I haven't used and iron like that since High School when we had industrial Art classes. We made tool boxes and varies pieces from sheet metal.

Don
Title: Re: 'WIDE A WAKE' a steam launch tale
Post by: Robert Hornby on February 23, 2015, 11:53:01 PM
I love the tanks Ramon, You are giving me lots of ideas for later on. Keep up the good work and pleased to hear you survived the 'man flu''.
Robert
Title: Re: 'WIDE A WAKE' a steam launch tale
Post by: b.lindsey on February 24, 2015, 12:40:26 AM
What a beautiful result Ramon. Gosh those are just perfect!!! Glad you are feeling better too.

Bill
Title: Re: 'WIDE A WAKE' a steam launch tale
Post by: 90LX_Notch on February 24, 2015, 03:38:05 AM
Very nice sheet metal work Ramon.
Title: Re: 'WIDE A WAKE' a steam launch tale
Post by: sco on February 24, 2015, 08:22:20 AM
I love to see the progress on this Ramon and find I look at the background Aladdin's cave as much as the subject in the foreground  ;D

Simon.
Title: Re: 'WIDE A WAKE' a steam launch tale
Post by: K.B.C on February 24, 2015, 11:15:11 PM
   


Ramon,
How I envy the space that you have , your tanks look great, I also have a Soldering Iron similar to yours and I bought it at the same price £1 !! mine has a makers name
( Richard Green ) and an M.O.D. arrow mark on it, it's the Bees Knees for soldering brass.
When I made the fuel and water tank for my Flashsteam boat I used .015" sheet brass but unlike you I didn't have a folding machine and had to use 2- lengths of angle iron held in the vice at one end and clampped at the other.

For filling the tanks, one with water , the other with Paraffin/ Petrol mix , I soldered a screw on cap with rhe top threaded 1/2 x 26 t.p.i.with a knurled edge, good idea to have a flip top cap.

The first pic is the engine before it's first run on steam and the other with the burnt head, which is made from a lump of M/S., is after its first run of 4 mins.
Your WideAwake is superbe.

George.
Title: Re: 'WIDE A WAKE' a steam launch tale
Post by: Ramon on March 02, 2015, 11:20:45 PM
Don, Robert,Bill, 90LX,Simon and George - Thanks for looking in guys  :)

Don, that soldering iron is one handy tool that's for sure. It looks so antiquated with it's split and opened end to hold the bit but boy does it do a good job.

Robert - Hope you are being able to find some time to get on with your build - I have to say I'm beginning to look forwards to getting this on the water now

Simon - nice to hear from you and good to see you're back making some progress on the Mc'Onie.

George - at first I thought you meant space in the hull but then reasoned you must mean the workshop. It's 14 x 14 ft, wood built, well insulated and double glazed. I keep a 1kw oil filled radiator on all the time which keeps any condensation at bay and is always warm to walk into. Built in 1984 an 8 x 14 ft annexe was added at a later date which is where I do my plastic modelling and Sue keeps her tropical fish.

Well guys there is little to report on the boat and no pics either I'm afraid. Work has continued making some fittings for the tanks as well as getting the last coat of varnish on the inside and painting the bilge area a nice grey colour. This is now nicely hardened so the next stage is to get the decks planked however I really do have to put it all to one side for a few days to get ready for the new mill which should arrive in a couple of weeks time. I've been making the swarf tray today and have been offered the use of some gas welding kit tomorrow. I was taught that as a young apprentice but it's been many many years since I did any, I guess in fact that would be on the tray done for the mill when it was moved from indoors to outside - around 1987-8 I think so I'm looking forward to seeing if I still have enough hand control to do it justice  :o.

I'll be back as soon as I can with a further update on the boat.

Regards - Ramon
Title: Re: 'WIDE A WAKE' a steam launch tale
Post by: Ramon on March 09, 2015, 11:15:06 PM
Hi Guy's - with the short digression over I've managed to make a bit more progress albeit a bit slow.

I decided to finish off fitting the water tanks to the hull before beginning planking the deck and made some brackets to hold them in place. The side view of the tanks are not shown on the original drawing so the tanks were made to what I thought looked right and to maximise capacity. It was only after fitting I noticed in one of the photos in the article that the original ones were not so high with the tops covered with wood. At this stage I don't feel like making new ones so I think I will just paint them.

Anyway with those ready to fit it was time to get on with the deck. On the J Class yacht I used thin Cyano which wicks under the plank and grabs the paper insert. With these planks being much wider and the card insert not so porous it was decided to use the Titebond 3 used for construction. It has worked well but is a much slower process

Here are a few pics of progress on that up to tonight

The card is .8mm thick and very hard. Strips were cut off about 3mm wide from the A4 sheet and is glued to the preceding plank, glue applied to it's outer face then the plank glued down to the deck. Here's one ready to fit
(https://lh6.googleusercontent.com/-GCJ9IcmutBQ/VP4KAbG2AOI/AAAAAAAAM1M/nEMGahmGr5w/s912/DSCF6668.JPG)

Despite wetting the outside of the plank and weighing them down with lead weights it has a very slight tendency to curl so the card and any high spots are skived off before the next plank is fitted. The sanding stick is not relevant but a remnant from building C/L aircraft wings -it's use is purely as a load spreader
(https://lh6.googleusercontent.com/-mnRfo9lzDmo/VP4KAY0WN1I/AAAAAAAAM1Q/5KBfMOQMjQk/s912/DSCF6679.JPG)

This was the latest plank going on this evening. Incidentally, in case you are wondering why that card does not come right to the edge the planks will be cut back about 10mm in from the outer edge in order to fit a margin plank. It's much easier and neater to fit the planks to the edge and then cut the surplus back afterward rather than trying to fit the planks to a finishing line
(https://lh5.googleusercontent.com/-J4CtnNqFAYk/VP4KAKn6ZII/AAAAAAAAM1I/NSU4c2J7tI0/s912/DSCF6686.JPG)

(https://lh4.googleusercontent.com/-rQAjP70KnHA/VP4KCsgnucI/AAAAAAAAM1c/E5BlAKNNR2A/s912/DSCF6690.JPG)

I think I should be able to finish this off tomorrow but Wednesday at the latest if not. Then the tedious bit begins - sanding it all down to produce an even surface  ::) I'm hoping to have the hull completely finished by the end of March all being well.

That's it for tonight - hope you're not getting too jaded with all this wood work - it won't be too long before I can get on with the engine  ;)


Regards - Ramon
Title: Re: 'WIDE A WAKE' a steam launch tale
Post by: b.lindsey on March 09, 2015, 11:55:32 PM
So nice to see you back working on the project Ramon. The woodwork is nice to see also especially given how well you do it!!

Bill
Title: Re: 'WIDE A WAKE' a steam launch tale
Post by: Don1966 on March 09, 2015, 11:59:15 PM
Ramon you have me druling. That plank job is a treat and looks great. I like.......................... :praise2:

Don
Title: Re: 'WIDE A WAKE' a steam launch tale
Post by: Ramon on March 10, 2015, 08:34:00 AM
Thanks for keeping with it Bill and Don - I confess I haven't had so much pleasure making something as this for a long time but I'm pleased to say it won't be for much longer.

Though I've always enjoyed 'woodwork' it's really not my forte - I much prefer machining and am looking forwards to getting back onto something more 'metallic' later in the year  ;)

Regards - Ramon
Title: Re: 'WIDE A WAKE' a steam launch tale
Post by: Jasonb on March 10, 2015, 08:40:32 AM
Its comming along nicely Ramon

Do you stop the glue short of the edge to make it easier to trim back the planks, I see you have a guide line there.

Not sure which you apply the glue to but when veneering its usual to apply the glue to the substrate as that will draw in the initial moisture and save the veneer getting too wet and swelling. May help to reduce the tendancy of your planks to cut but not entirely.

J
Title: Re: 'WIDE A WAKE' a steam launch tale
Post by: Ramon on March 10, 2015, 08:35:30 PM
Thanks for that tip Jason :ThumbsUp: I've been applying the glue to the plank in order to have more control where it's going but though it's quite small it does have a curving effect. I can see what you mean though - makes sense to let the substrate absorb the moisture first.

I haven't stopped the glue short, just applied it very thinly in the outer margin. Having looked at the  photos of the original today I realise that a margin plank may be a bit superfluous as there is a substantial breast piece each side up front and a long wash board along the gunwhale which will act as a covering board. I'll see what it looks like once it's all planked (five to go) before making a decision but just in case I plugged all those gaps with card tonight  ::)

Thanks for your interest

Regards - Ramon
Title: Re: 'WIDE A WAKE' a steam launch tale
Post by: Ramon on March 15, 2015, 10:55:08 PM
Hi Guys  - just a short update on current state of play. This week past saw the planking completed and the one op I was really looking forward to doing - putting on the rubbing strake. This went well and really accentuates the sheer. It took a mornings work to scrape and sand the planks down to a level surface but it was worth it. Having run over the merits of fitting a margin plank there seems little point as most of it will be covered by the washboard and breastwork so prudence being the better part etc. it was decided to leave it as is and not run the risk of spoiling the planking by cutting into it.

A couple of distractions are looming - this week sees the arrival of the mill and the sails have finally arrived for that J class yacht so that will possibly entail a short break. In the meantime here are three pics of the latest progress

The rubbing strake was cut from mahogany and glued and screwed in place .....
(https://lh5.googleusercontent.com/-SBrj3gItM7s/VQYJPDV2anI/AAAAAAAAM2Q/kNbUqRPxI3o/s912/DSCF6695.JPG)

....and the planking as finished
(https://lh5.googleusercontent.com/-mtGpdM3i8yw/VQYJPMESJiI/AAAAAAAAM2E/RMuEiu8f8lU/s912/DSCF6699.JPG)

(https://lh6.googleusercontent.com/-DRkdlBXNR0s/VQYJPWWeziI/AAAAAAAAM2M/5N603_BOAR8/s912/DSCF6702.JPG)

There's not too much to do now - fit that inner coaming and those other deck mounted parts.

That's it for a while then - back soon

Regards - Ramon
Title: Re: 'WIDE A WAKE' a steam launch tale
Post by: b.lindsey on March 15, 2015, 11:29:38 PM
Thanks for the update Ramon. I just keeps getting better and better!!!

Bill
Title: Re: 'WIDE A WAKE' a steam launch tale
Post by: Don1966 on March 15, 2015, 11:56:30 PM
That is a masterpiece Ramon and you are out doing yourself. I love it and what a lobor of love you have created. Magnificent!  :praise2: :praise2:

Don
Title: Re: 'WIDE A WAKE' a steam launch tale
Post by: Dave Otto on March 16, 2015, 12:18:57 AM
That's beautiful Ramon!

It seems that you are talking in a foreign language; names of parts that I have never heard before.

Dave
Title: Re: 'WIDE A WAKE' a steam launch tale
Post by: Hugh Currin on March 16, 2015, 01:04:36 AM
Raymon:

I agree that is beautiful. But I do have a questions. Where to you find the tiny scale champagne bottles to smash during the launch ceremony? Or it that glass blowing part of the build? Or do you use full sized bottles and just drink the champagne? Please include pictures of the launch anyway you do it.

Again, great build and thanks for sharing.

Hugh
Title: Re: 'WIDE A WAKE' a steam launch tale
Post by: vcutajar on March 16, 2015, 07:16:24 AM
It is coming out so nicely that it would be a pity to get it wet.

Vince
Title: Re: 'WIDE A WAKE' a steam launch tale
Post by: fumopuc on March 16, 2015, 08:42:40 AM
Hi Ramon, only beautiful.
Title: Re: 'WIDE A WAKE' a steam launch tale
Post by: Roger B on March 16, 2015, 01:36:18 PM
That is certainly some magnificent woodwork  :praise2:  :praise2:
Title: Re: 'WIDE A WAKE' a steam launch tale
Post by: Ramon on March 16, 2015, 02:10:10 PM
Hi Guys

Thanks as usual for your interest in this project and all your kind comments - all much appreciated.

Dave (Otto) - I think I said somewhere at the beginning I had to learn a whole new vocabulary and it's proved the case. Won't be long though before I can get back to more machine like terminology  ;)

Hugh - Marv beat you too it suggesting the scale bottles ;) A (light hearted) champagne launch party is planned however so no doubt there will be a few pics.

Vince - it has to get wet - if only the once  ;)

The mill is finally on it's way and I'm now off to see a friend who is going to help get it in the workshop - hopefully I'll be back on this to see it through to finish within a week or so.

Regards for now and thanks again - Ramon
Title: Re: 'WIDE A WAKE' a steam launch tale
Post by: b.lindsey on March 16, 2015, 03:07:01 PM
Ummmmm....we are gonna be needing pics of that new mill to Ramon :)

Bill
Title: Re: 'WIDE A WAKE' a steam launch tale
Post by: Ramon on March 18, 2015, 11:30:20 PM
Well you asked Bill so here they are  ;)

After what seemed a very long wait the mill finally docked on the 9th. It was dispatched - on economy delivery - this Monday (16th) and most surprisingly arrived at just after 2.00 pm yesterday.

Phil and I had spent some time preparing the outside area with pallets and planks to build up the low ground between drive and workshop finishing just an hour or so before the unexpected delivery. Once off it's main pallet it was swiftly brought into the workshop and a scaffold built round it for the lift and by 5.00 pm it was safely on the bench with no hiccups, nipped fingers or scratched paint.

Though it's the rustiest thing to ever see inside the workshop this certainly proved the bees knees for getting it lifted
(https://lh6.googleusercontent.com/-
NtMTNmHKMOM/VQnHZp5CYRI/AAAAAAAAM20/1kSXbVhpEJ4/s912/DSCF6705.JPG)

We had a lift front and back and brought it up nearly in one go but the lifting gear bottomed out with an inch to go. A quick re hash of both slings and it was finally safely ensconced on the bench
(https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/--rkXWvM57EI/VQnHZj6HV8I/AAAAAAAAM24/85zy7oxtQl0/s912/DSCF6707.JPG)

Today saw the clean up of pallets etc and getting the mill finalised with the tray underneath which again, thanks to Phil's thoughtful input and preparation went without a hitch.

With just the hold down bolt holes to drill its now all up and running and ready to go.
(https://lh4.googleusercontent.com/-51Tsg9fGyYY/VQnHZg5wk9I/AAAAAAAAM2w/ue0ZIDOCkyw/s912/DSCF6710.JPG)

(https://lh6.googleusercontent.com/-2YA8fde8a-A/VQnHbTl_p4I/AAAAAAAAM3A/uYtiuF5qWzA/s912/DSCF6713.JPG)

I haven't had chance yet to check the accuracy other than the spindle run out (.005 mm TIR) which I was well pleased to see. If the rest is as accurate as the inspection sheet infers then I shall be well pleased. For the money I consider it extremely good value but it will only be once I begin to use it whether or not that proves to be the case. At this point in time however, taking it at face value, I'm reasonably confident.

That's the first new piece of machinery since buying the lathe around 1980 - just hope I keep ticking over long enough to get a decent bit of use out of it.

What's the first job for it - well, I do have something lined up  ;) but first, of course, there's a certain launch to finish.

Regards - Ramon
Title: Re: 'WIDE A WAKE' a steam launch tale
Post by: Don1966 on March 18, 2015, 11:38:19 PM
Looks to be a nice setup Ramon and when you make your first cut you will know for sure. Very nice setup and a DRO you will enjoy using.

Don
Title: Re: 'WIDE A WAKE' a steam launch tale
Post by: b.lindsey on March 18, 2015, 11:38:32 PM
That's a nice looking mill Ramon!  Glad the installation went without a hitch too. Thanks for letting us see the new baby :)

Bill
Title: Re: 'WIDE A WAKE' a steam launch tale
Post by: fumopuc on March 19, 2015, 05:58:50 AM
Hi Ramon, have fun with your new mill. It looks very similar to my one.
http://www.optimum-maschinen.de/produkte/fraesmaschinen/bf20vario/index.html
May be made in the same Asian factory. Using it now for 3 years, I am very happy with it.
Title: Re: 'WIDE A WAKE' a steam launch tale
Post by: steamer on March 19, 2015, 09:43:27 AM
That looks great Ramon!   I want to see her in action as well!

Dave
Title: Re: 'WIDE A WAKE' a steam launch tale
Post by: Jasonb on March 19, 2015, 11:23:20 AM
Just needs a good sprinkle of Ali swarf to get it looking right at home.

Whats it like to raise & lower the head reaching upto the handle? That is what put me off a lot of the hobby mills and why I went for the X3 with its front mounted handle.
Title: Re: 'WIDE A WAKE' a steam launch tale
Post by: Roger B on March 19, 2015, 06:40:08 PM
Have fun with your new toy  :ThumbsUp:  :ThumbsUp: I like the natural wood packing pieces under the scaffold frame  :)
Title: Re: 'WIDE A WAKE' a steam launch tale
Post by: Ramon on March 19, 2015, 11:25:06 PM
Hi Guys - well after 'one or three minutes'  ;) spent polishing it etc this morning I had a good clear away and 'put back' and brought the hull back into the shop. The mill has two attributes I really don't like -both easilly overcome however. The first is that the saddle leadscrew is exposed behind the table as the table is drawn forwards so a flexible cover needs to be fitted - some leather is on the way for that. The second is that very small hand wheel for the quill down feed but I have plans for a lever type extension to improve the control on that. Apart from that it seems fine. I need to get it bolted down and make a new drawbar to my preferred design as there is no means of locking or holding the spindle against the turning forces

Jason - I think the high handle may prove a tad awkward at times. It certainly moves the head upwards with ease and down effortlessly but being slightly vertically challenged at 5Ft 6" 1/2 (don't forget the 1/2") it is a slight stretch which may become tiresome. I have found a couple of toothed belt pulleys and may, once, every thing is checked out working wise, fit a handle lower down which will ease things somewhat.

Don - I had a play with the DRO tonight after another lamination went on. After my so basic and straightforward one on the Linley this did prove a challenge to understand to begin with. The Chinglish instructions were of course a great help once deciphered  ::) but after an hour I finally managed to change the resolution so I can see there's a lot of fun to be had in the days ahead.

'In action' Dave, may be a while - I have to exercise patience otherwise the boat will get back shelved and I really do want to stay focussed on that. Never fear though it won't be that long before I have the time to give it a real test.

Achim - I would guess they come from the same source - just a different spray shed ;) I hope this proves as good a machine as yours has.

Roger that packing was 'high tech' as you can see  :o  My friend Phil was a constant source of all manner of such things to get the job done. It would have been a long job without his constant supply of material.

Perhaps I should mention that I did say previously that I had a good offer of help from 'Andy B' and my friend John (M). Phil who lives nearby offered his help and with Andy working long hours and only available at the weekend it was far more practical for Phil to step in.
The idea of using scaffold though was very much Andy's so thanks all round guys.

It's been quite a long wait but it's here now an basically installed so waiting a while before it gets used won't hurt for a while.

As said I brought the hull back in and managed to begin laminating that coaming later in the day so we are back on course there then - just a couple of pics ... of lots of clamps
(https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-Rp6YdBB_LFY/VQtP5XhSfNI/AAAAAAAAM3g/qV2yj2dE1lo/s912/DSCF6717.JPG)

(https://lh4.googleusercontent.com/-8Amnluf8tAA/VQtP5VAzkuI/AAAAAAAAM3c/2TaCZQGZpXE/s912/DSCF6719.JPG)

Thanks for staying with it guys

Regards - Ramon


Title: Re: 'WIDE A WAKE' a steam launch tale
Post by: Don1966 on March 19, 2015, 11:38:13 PM
Very interesting Ramon and did you have to steam the front panel to get it to wrap around? What kind of oven did you have to put it in to steam if?

Don
Title: Re: 'WIDE A WAKE' a steam launch tale
Post by: Ian S C on March 20, 2015, 12:20:54 PM
Ramon, it might be worth a step or two at the side of the mill that can be folded away when not in use.  I need one by my mill to change the belts (well actually its a bit of 6" dia steel axle from a railway waggon, about 14" long).
Ian S C
Title: Re: 'WIDE A WAKE' a steam launch tale
Post by: Ramon on March 22, 2015, 11:13:23 PM
Hi Guys - thanks for the input  :ThumbsUp:

Don , much to my surprise I was able to do that without steaming. The two outer lams are 1.5mm and the inner one .8mm thick. Reason for the difference is the sheet mahogany available - I only just had enough. The steam box I do use is a very crude affair - just four pieces of 3/4" wood about 4" wide screwed together to give a long box steam goes in one end (from a wallpaper stripper) and the ends are blocked with wet rags - crude indeed but effective  ;)

Ian, nice to see you on here, thanks for the suggestion. I may well do that too - It might be possible to arrange something across the bench legs.

Well I finished off the laminating today and trimmed the edges back - just the aft cross piece to fit tomorrow....
(https://lh6.googleusercontent.com/-bUOx4m52Pw4/VQ89xsWcJUI/AAAAAAAAM4g/7NGcay_b96E/s912/DSCF6757.JPG)

While the planks were drying I set to on a couple of 'ancillary' bits the first of which was the rudder. The main shape was made from three pieces of a nice mahogany like timber (probably Meranti) cut from a short block held onto for such an occasion. The reinforcing is nickel silver which will be epoxied on and dummy rivets fitted after the sealing coat of varnish is applied.
(https://lh5.googleusercontent.com/-Nic5gQpP_-Q/VQ89tNRBJDI/AAAAAAAAM4I/F_W-Yrg8Wu0/s912/DSCF6729.JPG)

Today also saw a start on something I've been looking forwards to making - the steering wheel  :)

The embryonic parts....
(https://lh4.googleusercontent.com/--DMjaZk9dw8/VQ89tBVAYMI/AAAAAAAAM4A/0NbvHYIPyfU/s912/DSCF6724.JPG)

The brass reinforcing rings were held on a temporary faceplate to turn the ODs
(https://lh5.googleusercontent.com/-ttOUf-n05lQ/VQ89tGsZXxI/AAAAAAAAM38/258sCfxdsr0/s912/DSCF6734.JPG)

Then the outer was held with screws as clamps to trepann the ring. Despite taking the pic the 'non clamping' screw was not noticed until unscrewing to remove it  ::) Fortunately it did not have any detrimental affect
(https://lh4.googleusercontent.com/-GGqH099pCDg/VQ89vTa3LTI/AAAAAAAAM4Q/lgbx1hkyy8I/s912/DSCF6737.JPG)

The block for the outer rim was bored and a short mandrel made to fit into it and the temp face plate to align it for turning both sides.
(https://lh4.googleusercontent.com/-WMC0Azmz8Ho/VQ89wz2BGHI/AAAAAAAAM4Y/lcuTUSFzH_Q/s912/DSCF6743.JPG)

And that's as far as we got tonight
(https://lh6.googleusercontent.com/-EhLk9yvBs8A/VQ89yfAtenI/AAAAAAAAM4o/a3Cv8COaEO0/s912/DSCF6763.JPG)

I'm reliably informed that tomorrow is a domestic duties day but hopefully the spokes might get a start at least ;)

Thanks for looking in

Regards - Ramon
Title: Re: 'WIDE A WAKE' a steam launch tale
Post by: Don1966 on March 22, 2015, 11:27:07 PM
The lamination looks great Ramon and the wheel is shaping up to be a work of art. I like................... :praise2:

Don
Title: Re: 'WIDE A WAKE' a steam launch tale
Post by: b.lindsey on March 23, 2015, 12:06:57 AM
I can see why you were looking forward to the steering wheel Ramon. That is really looking great..as does the rest of course!!

Bill
Title: Re: 'WIDE A WAKE' a steam launch tale
Post by: fumopuc on March 23, 2015, 04:32:17 AM
Hi Ramon, as Don already said, that steering wheel will be a work of art. Like the whole boat that you have built until now. I am sure some further high lights, beautiful details,  will follow.
Title: Re: 'WIDE A WAKE' a steam launch tale
Post by: Ramon on March 26, 2015, 11:51:06 PM
Thanks Don, Bill and Achim for your continued support - means a lot to hear from you.

Well, this is just a short update but you'll be pleased to hear/see another significant point has been reached in this project :)

To continue with the wheel a simple form tool was made from a piece of GFS. As there were only six pieces of wood to tackle it was left unhardened and worked well enough. These are parts for the inner spokes. The outer ones were straight forward turnings the curved ends applied by a file and abrasive paper.
(https://lh5.googleusercontent.com/-G9YdzDhHZMM/VRMSd0nOYdI/AAAAAAAAM5Y/vP3hG5rYL_0/s912/DSCF6771.JPG)

The end was drilled 3.0mm to take the outer spoke and the drill reversed and used as a support
(https://lh5.googleusercontent.com/-Efyn_fB9wRQ/VRMSeEw1vWI/AAAAAAAAM5c/-GyS2kafLkk/s912/DSCF6775.JPG)

All the parts ready for assembly....
(https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-nehczba5dCc/VRMSdx409fI/AAAAAAAAM5Q/1eiyC5ztvQM/s912/DSCF6784.JPG)

...and the finished item
(https://lh5.googleusercontent.com/-67jtuTBd_0g/VRSTttn6v2I/AAAAAAAAM6E/nOhuzvJx6XU/s912/DSCF6800.JPG)

Yesterday finally saw the fitting of the breastwork. These two pieces proved to be the most challenging of the entire project to shape and fit. Though it might look it nothing was flat so a lot of cut and try using a file and chisel took most of the morning but the result was worth it
(https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-MLDrz5l1DgA/VRMSfi5Rc0I/AAAAAAAAM5k/Dzzg0enuuk4/s912/DSCF6790.JPG)

And finally, this afternoon, saw the last piece of timber in the main hull construction go on.
(https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-aFZ4XyR706k/VRSTtU1FJRI/AAAAAAAAM6A/Zorn0upr9vo/s912/DSCF6796.JPG)

Everything else now left to do is basically cosmetic - fitting out here and there such as seats, the aft compartment cover etc. Time to get that hoover out then and have one last big clean up of all that dust before thinking about the varnishing.

Sooo.... after 43 years thinking about it it's finally built - now all it needs is an engine but that will be a week or two yet before a start is made - I really do now have to take a break and get the garden in shape before it gets out of hand.

Hope you've enjoyed the journey - so many look in on a daily basis but so many say nothing so it's hard to know overall.

Regards - Ramon

Title: Re: 'WIDE A WAKE' a steam launch tale
Post by: K.B.C on March 27, 2015, 12:03:37 AM
Ramon,

As an onlooker all I can say is "BRILLIANT" and look forward to seing WaW getting her bottom wet.

George.
Title: Re: 'WIDE A WAKE' a steam launch tale
Post by: Don1966 on March 27, 2015, 12:53:35 AM
Ramon that Helm wheel is a beauty as is the vessel. Now a big brass acorn nut is needed to lock it to the shaft. Are you going to have the Helm wheel work the rudder or is it just for show?

Don
Title: Re: 'WIDE A WAKE' a steam launch tale
Post by: b.lindsey on March 27, 2015, 01:05:48 AM
Just when I thought you couldn't impress me any more than you already have.....you DO!!!  Love that wheel!!!

Bill
Title: Re: 'WIDE A WAKE' a steam launch tale
Post by: Maryak on March 27, 2015, 07:15:10 AM
Gob Smacked Ramon  :NotWorthy: :NotWorthy: :NotWorthy:

By the way I am convinced you are a Pam Ayres Fan........................Clamp the Mighty Limpet ring any bells? You have sooooo many clamps it just seems to fit  ;D

Best Regards
Bob
Title: Re: 'WIDE A WAKE' a steam launch tale
Post by: Jasonb on March 27, 2015, 07:56:33 AM
A very enjoyable and informative woodworking journey Ramon. Keep us posted on the engine "refit"and final installation.

J
Title: Re: 'WIDE A WAKE' a steam launch tale
Post by: wagnmkr on March 27, 2015, 11:16:20 AM
What a wonderful build thread. Excellent pics and explanations. Incredible workmanship. Only 43 years ... Wine get's better with age as well. You must be very pleased indeed.

Tom
Title: Re: 'WIDE A WAKE' a steam launch tale
Post by: tangler on March 27, 2015, 12:45:52 PM
Lovely, absolutely lovely.  Let's hear it for the brown stuff!  I'm building a bass lute at the moment but that's carvel rather than clinker built.

I like the miniature brass sash cramps.

Rod
Title: Re: 'WIDE A WAKE' a steam launch tale
Post by: cwelkie on March 27, 2015, 01:29:24 PM
I'm just one of the many who look forward to every update to this thread.  You've set the bar high and I thank you for that.  You've illustrated what can be done with interest, patience, attention to detail and a willingness to ignore the clock (calendar?).
It's such a pleasure to watch something develop that is at the opposite end of the spectrum from "instant gratification".
Cheers
Charlie
Title: Re: 'WIDE A WAKE' a steam launch tale
Post by: smfr on March 27, 2015, 04:11:04 PM
I know it's not an engine, but I'm so glad you shared this wonderful build with us, Ramon. It's just lovely.

Simon
Title: Re: 'WIDE A WAKE' a steam launch tale
Post by: Stilldrillin on March 27, 2015, 09:28:14 PM
Hope you've enjoyed the journey - so many look in on a daily basis but so many say nothing so it's hard to know overall.

I must confess, I am one of the guilty ones, Ramon.  :embarassed:

I love and admire your, way with wood. Each episode, an improvement over the previous ones.  :praise2:

Thank you, for showing us your adventure.......  :cheers:

David D

Title: Re: 'WIDE A WAKE' a steam launch tale
Post by: Jim Nic on March 28, 2015, 12:00:11 PM
Another member of your fan club here.  I am following this build with great admiration for your skills and feel that a craftsman such as yourself does not need any input from a hacker such as me so I stay silent.  However, I am learning from watching so please keep up the good work; I am sure many of us are benefitting greatly from your posts.
Jim
Title: Re: 'WIDE A WAKE' a steam launch tale
Post by: ozzie46 on March 28, 2015, 12:39:48 PM
Guilty as charged Ramon!

 Your work is astounding. :whoohoo: :whoohoo: Eagerly awaiting launch.

Ron
Title: Re: 'WIDE A WAKE' a steam launch tale
Post by: SandCam on March 28, 2015, 03:50:12 PM
 :NotWorthy: :praise2:

Ramon, you are a true Artisan... regardless of the media, be it Metal,Wood or Plastic.

Simply stunning work.

You would have been a real challenge to beat had you chosen to go in for scale model flying at the Nationals.

Best regards.

Sandy. :D
Title: Re: 'WIDE A WAKE' a steam launch tale
Post by: ths on March 28, 2015, 08:28:32 PM
Just wonderful Ramon, I certainly hope that there is a bit more to come. Cheers, Hugh.
Title: Re: 'WIDE A WAKE' a steam launch tale
Post by: zeeprogrammer on March 28, 2015, 10:11:25 PM
Hope you've enjoyed the journey - so many look in on a daily basis but so many say nothing so it's hard to know overall.

Guilty.

I can't add anything new to what was said. I can only say I agree with everything that was said.
This is the inspirational work.
Maybe I can add something...you can be sure you have influenced many other people. A great achievement.

Thanks for sharing.
Title: Re: 'WIDE A WAKE' a steam launch tale
Post by: Ramon on March 29, 2015, 12:09:45 AM
Guys - its been a long and tiring (sailing) day  :) the good news of which is that I finally managed to get in ahead of Sue on all races  :D - and believe that really is unusual  ::) It's surprising just how much walking we do throughout the day so by the time we're home it really is time to get the feet up.

I couldn't disappear tonight however without a response..

Thank you all for your kind comments on this build which are very gratifying to receive and much appreciated. My intention by my last remark was not to make any of you feel 'guilty' but more to hopefully promote some kind of feedback. It's obvious from the number of visits that many look in but when, apart from those dedicated' regulars' ( Don, Bill, Jason etc etc - you guys all know who you are  ;) ) so few make a comment I'm afraid, being an inveterate worrier, I begin to have the doubt creep in that maybe it's not being seen in a favourable light. I know, I know, we've been here before but this is not about receiving plaudits or platitudes, very nice though that that is, but some idea on occasion that what's being posted is of use or even just of interest. I don't know if it comes across but I do honestly try to keep in mind to write as if I'm speaking to someone, much as if taking what's been done to present a club meeting. I'm sure  you would agree that if few people spoke it wouldn't make for a good evening. Some of you may recall that I'm not in any (ME) group , that this is very much my club so to hear occasionally from the odd new or infrequent name is always a pleasure.

For those of you then that have replied - the knowledge that you have been looking in on and enjoying the thread makes all the constant thought that goes into 'the next post' well worth while  ;)

I've now decided to lay the boat up for a couple of weeks at least - not least because I confess I am a bit tired - it's been a long session this winter. I now also have a repair to my favourite yacht to do, damaged today by the wind catching it and wringing it around, cracking the carbon hull on my arm so that's a priority  ::)  Varnishing the W-a-W  hull will take a good few days - three days between coats and at least five coats. Until that's done I won't be able to start on the engine as it will take the bench up in the workshop. But, once done I'll get onto the last phase as soon as possible - I do want to launch her this year.

Thank you all again - it is all much appreciated

Regards - Ramon
Title: Re: 'WIDE A WAKE' a steam launch tale
Post by: 90LX_Notch on March 29, 2015, 02:26:14 AM
Still following along Ramon.  It's absolutely beautiful.

-Bob
Title: Re: 'WIDE A WAKE' a steam launch tale
Post by: AussieJimG on March 29, 2015, 02:45:59 AM
I am one of those who have been following  but not commenting; it is hard to find superlatives.

In everything you do - the engines, the boat hull, the boiler, the engine and so on, you make perfection look easy. I can't tell you how much I enjoy watching a master craftsman at work.

I will continue to watch with pleasure.

Jim
Title: Re: 'WIDE A WAKE' a steam launch tale
Post by: Johnb on March 29, 2015, 11:17:53 AM
Nothing much to say Ramon  except "Well done and thank you"
Title: Re: 'WIDE A WAKE' a steam launch tale
Post by: Ian S C on March 29, 2015, 01:17:54 PM
Every time this thread is in the LH column, I come in and see what's going on.
Ian S C
Title: Re: 'WIDE A WAKE' a steam launch tale
Post by: steamboatmodel on April 15, 2015, 12:40:03 AM
Very well done.
Regards,
Gerald.
Title: Re: 'WIDE A WAKE' a steam launch tale
Post by: b.lindsey on April 15, 2015, 12:48:18 AM
I'm in till the very end Ramon...even if that means just watching the varnish dry. Unlike some, I do enjoy a bit of woodworking now and then, not at your level of course, but your work does continue to inspire me!!  Looking forward to the engine work also though whenever you get to it.

Bill
Title: Re: 'WIDE A WAKE' a steam launch tale
Post by: Ramon on May 05, 2015, 11:36:20 PM
Hi Guys - my apologies for the long delay in responding. Truth to tell the tiredness mentioned in my last post caught up with me and though I have managed to pick at it here and there I have not felt motivated enough to post over the small amounts achieved. I have paid scant attention to what's been happening recently so perhaps apologies are also in order for not responding to any posts that I usually would have done

Today however, I received two timely reminders you were all still here  :)
The first a very nice PM from member 'Bez' then a phone call from my good friend Chris (modelsteam) who's just returned from a long holiday. The PM gave me the jolt I needed to get my backside into gear and I actually began to think about posting but Chris brought my attention to Chucks post  which I'm sure you'd agree makes for some sombre thought.

Boat wise there has been some progress but it has been slow though once packed away I did find time to finish that J Class yacht before bringing it back out again. Though I have found it hard to really get motivated I wouldn't say I've hit a brick wall more a very thick hedge. Faced with quite a bit of work to finish it as intended I've re-evaluated and decided not to rebuild the engine at this point in time but use it as is for this year.

I have a few pics of the latest stages - the lower hull is now varnished and the decks are in progress - but it's getting late so will  try to post something tomorrow.

In the meantime - thanks for the timely PM Bez  ;)

Back asap
Regards - Ramon
Title: Re: 'WIDE A WAKE' a steam launch tale
Post by: b.lindsey on May 06, 2015, 12:33:30 AM
Nice to hear from you Ramon. We all hit that wall at times either from other things taking precedence or just running out of steam (pun intended). As has been said many times, it isn't a race and when it becomes more burdensome than fun, its time to take a break.

Bill
Title: Re: 'WIDE A WAKE' a steam launch tale
Post by: Bezalel on May 06, 2015, 05:59:21 AM
you're Welcome Ramon
 
I feel sometimes that, yet another "well done" just doesn't quite cut it when it comes to expressing my true appreciation. Hence the PM.
 
I know just what you are talking about with the hedge.  Just when I down tools I seem to get a  never-ending bombardment of other demands on my time.
 
cheers
 
Bez
 
Title: Re: 'WIDE A WAKE' a steam launch tale
Post by: Jasonb on May 06, 2015, 07:39:35 AM
Sounds like a good plan Ramon to save the engine work and get some actual boating time in. I'm sure it will make a good project for the winter when the garden does not need so much attention and there are less sailing days.

J
Title: Re: 'WIDE A WAKE' a steam launch tale
Post by: Ramon on May 06, 2015, 10:46:23 PM
Hi guys - as promised a few pics of current progress.

It is nearing the end run of construction now with just another coat or two of varnish on the decks to be applied then the process of fitting out can begin. During the last few days I've been picking away at the fittings as well as finishing varnishing the hull - a slow process indeed with the need to allow it to harden completely before lightly rubbing down. Before starting varnishing, after a real good vacuuming, I rigged up a tent over the bench to help keep the dust at bay which worked well enough - two pieces of string and a 99p dust sheet from QD solved the problem.

Before varnishing commenced though, to finish off that breastwork I wanted to convey that the 'heavy pieces' had been through bolted and plugged
(https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-LNyKtgAIvTc/VUCHIPEcbzI/AAAAAAAANAE/mhvLYX4Gzmk/s912/DSCF6818.JPG)

Two tools were turned up, one to cut a precise hole the other to cut the plugs. The hole cutter was drilled to take the guide pin then  heat treated to prevent the sharp edge from folding over. The plug cutter was left unhardened which worked well enough for the few plugs required. A hole was drilled to take the pin, counterbored just under size to the cutter then the pin inserted to act as a guide for the cutter.  The actual plug is only in the stock by about 1.5mm
(https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-NcV0XH6qcKQ/VUCHIBsXT-I/AAAAAAAAM_4/tT8duvgYRWc/s912/DSCF6820.JPG)

It all worked well enough and the outcome was as hoped for :)
(https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/--9QE72aVo_g/VUCHIDNuZBI/AAAAAAAANAA/CciQaFxME-c/s912/DSCF6829.JPG)

And so finally, after all these months, that varnish could be applied. I used 'Le Tonkinois' which I bought at the Midlands show last year. It's a pure natural varnish and flows beautifully. The first coat simply disappeared into the wood leaving a very matt finish but the second soon indicated the potential shine to come
(https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-z5kQ5TEuCps/VUCGdK17_8I/AAAAAAAAM_g/vdOZzOV9aqo/s912/DSCF6836.JPG)

Though more or less touch dry over night I didn't feel it was suitable for rubbing down for a good three days so spent some time between coats pleasantly distracted by the garden
(https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-BXZ8ptsgvk4/VUaWeePkv3I/AAAAAAAANAo/VpapHJsonLU/s912/DSCF6865.JPG)

This last week or so attention turned to finishing off and making the remaining 'fittings'

The rudder had it's reinforcing plates epoxied on (dummy rivets), the pintle bands the same
(https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-bvYro17gccQ/VUpjS4MB6rI/AAAAAAAANCM/KVHYVoYMbu0/s912/DSCF6925.JPG)

The steering wheel was finished off by making its mounting - the steel part is for the (dummy) rudder cables .....
(https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-Mw-tLsixISw/VUpjVxsPRsI/AAAAAAAANCU/FkZpN-m_pj4/s912/DSCF6934.JPG)

... and the front was finished with a brass housing over the locking screw
(https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-4HNDHuioJ8Q/VUpjS5xvMiI/AAAAAAAANCI/iMq09NvAztw/s912/DSCF6929.JPG)

Sundry other bits and pieces have slowly trickled off the mill and lathe - I was particularly pleased with the oil box for the prop shaft - that's the first time I've made a hinge.....
(https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-AP0sTRM_XQc/VUpjS4BA4-I/AAAAAAAANCA/Mb-8sgVwrCg/s912/DSCF6920.JPG)

... and of course no boat would be complete without a name plate - courtesy of my good friend Phil who helped me install the new mill. The wood is Firethorn kept from a major pruning of a very over grown example years back. Very hard and close grained it proved ideal for engraving without tearing.
(https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-tZqhXAnfeIM/VUpjW8jG8QI/AAAAAAAANCk/E93IfDp3CHM/s912/DSCF6945.JPG)

It'll be at least next week before any of that can be attached. I have used 'International' yacht varnish for the decks as this is a much paler colour. Surprisingly this is taking much longer that the other to harden off but after all this time an extra day or so is neither here nor there  ;) however here she is as of tonight.....
(https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-Fc57TzkPCtw/VUpjWsnZ9xI/AAAAAAAANCg/Vlp1LTCVSA4/s912/DSCF6935.JPG)

.... not far to go now  :)

Thanks for the words of support Bill, Bez and Jason - as my friend Chris would have it, I'm currently not in full possession of my MoJo but I am working on it  ;D

Regards - Ramon
Title: Re: 'WIDE A WAKE' a steam launch tale
Post by: derekwarner on May 06, 2015, 11:26:27 PM
Just beautiful Ramon........all of the superlatives  :facepalm: have been posted on multiple occasions....

One question.....I see you have chosen  'International' yacht varnish for the decks "as this is a much paler colour", over I assume the 'Le Tonkinois' ....and you note that the former appears to require longer to harden......do you have a preference in the final finish or product?....again congratulations.......

PS.....how is that  :Mad: gas regulator going?........Derek
Title: Re: 'WIDE A WAKE' a steam launch tale
Post by: Don1966 on May 06, 2015, 11:41:03 PM
It just leaves you breathless looking at it. What else can I say but just georgeous Ramon and you have surely set the standard high my friend........................ :praise2: :praise2:


 :drinking-41:

Don
Title: Re: 'WIDE A WAKE' a steam launch tale
Post by: b.lindsey on May 07, 2015, 12:18:01 AM
There are no words left Ramon. Do you have a place picked out for her first sailing?

Bill
Title: Re: 'WIDE A WAKE' a steam launch tale
Post by: Dave Otto on May 07, 2015, 01:15:23 AM
Wow that's nice!

Dave
Title: Re: 'WIDE A WAKE' a steam launch tale
Post by: zeeprogrammer on May 07, 2015, 01:42:14 AM
I'm currently not in full possession of my MoJo

I wish I had some of that.

Beautiful work.
Title: Re: 'WIDE A WAKE' a steam launch tale
Post by: Robert Hornby on May 07, 2015, 03:17:58 AM
Wow, Ramon. I have been away for 5 weeks and found several pages of progress and kindly comments in my absence. Superb, I love the wheel and rudder I just hope mine can be half as good. Hoping to get back to finishing my boiler soon, mainly the burner to complete.
Robert
Title: Re: 'WIDE A WAKE' a steam launch tale
Post by: fumopuc on May 07, 2015, 04:36:15 AM
 Hi Ramon, she is beautiful.
Title: Re: 'WIDE A WAKE' a steam launch tale
Post by: mike mott on May 07, 2015, 06:32:02 AM
A beautiful hull and fittings all round.

Mike
Title: Re: 'WIDE A WAKE' a steam launch tale
Post by: Ramon on May 07, 2015, 11:26:40 AM
Hi guys - thanks for looking in, your comments are always valued.

Derek - It's a close call but overall I would come down in favour of the Le Tonkinois. It has a much richer colour and goes on far more easily especially when warmed. Having tried a tentative rub down on the deck this morning the International has still got a distinct softness after 48 hours so is definitely slower than the other to harden out. The regulator is still in the pending folder but it won't be long now before I tackle one.

Don, cheers to you too - sorry to have missed your posts on the E and A but I'll try to catch up asap  :ThumbsUp:

Bill - yes it will be our club pond at Norwich (there will be pic of that a bit later elsewhere). We are planning a small launch party as one or two friends have expressed a desire to be there but it's a bit too premature to say when - it'll be a Saturday though  :)

Zee - When I find it, if there's any spare I'll send you some  :D - good to see you still looking in.

Robert - Hope you get back onto your build as soon as you're able - being a bit jaded and taking a break is one thing but having to leave what you're doing when you want to be working on it is another - we've all been there especially when work gets in the way.

Dave, Achim and Mike - thanks for your continued interest - I'm hoping the finished product will not be too long now.

Regards for now - Ramon
Title: Re: 'WIDE A WAKE' a steam launch tale
Post by: Roger B on May 09, 2015, 05:38:32 PM
Splendid wood work  :praise2:  :praise2: I will be interested to see how the different varnishes perform  :ThumbsUp:
Title: Re: 'WIDE A WAKE' a steam launch tale
Post by: vcutajar on May 09, 2015, 08:44:56 PM
How did you engrave the nameplate Ramon?  CNC or freehand?

Vince
Title: Re: 'WIDE A WAKE' a steam launch tale
Post by: steamer on May 10, 2015, 12:41:09 AM
Ramon, that is looking Awesome!    Well done!

Dave
Title: Re: 'WIDE A WAKE' a steam launch tale
Post by: Ramon on May 18, 2015, 10:01:29 PM
Roger, Vince, Dave - nice to hear from you.

Roger - I have been rubbing down the decks to take out the brush marks and smooth things a tad. I'm surprised to find that it is still not truly 'hard' as it is difficult to buff without streaking in places.

Vince - hope you are finding plenty to do in your spare time over here. The engraving was done by hand on an Alexander engraving machine, a facility I would like to have but have no space to accommodate one  ::)

Dave it's getting there but I freely admit it's becoming harder to remain focussed on this last 15%

That said I have managed a bit more and have begun this evening to start to fit her out .....

First off though was to cover up that lovely piece of timber used for the keel with the 'anti fouling'
(https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-q8DaGvRDb8s/VVpJc0MLKuI/AAAAAAAANEA/9sdOW7N4nqA/s912/DSCF6950.JPG)

I suppose another milestone was reached tonight in fitting the prop shaft and prop. The lower bearing is water lubricated and turned from Lignum Vitae. There's a degree of slackness to allow for swelling. The rather long shaft is supported about halfway along with a phosphor bronze bush and the top bearing will be oil lubricated. There's an 'O' ring just below the top bush to prevent oil seepage into the water
(https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-ephbENdNzek/VVpOHl-ejfI/AAAAAAAANEo/LmdbbAac3c4/s912/DSCF6957.JPG)

The shaft was screw-cut to take the internally threaded prop...
(https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-Y_Ppx-rwsWs/VVpIz57aeMI/AAAAAAAANDs/9AFUtV01Q_U/s912/DSCF6964.JPG)

...and finally after waiting those 43 years to be used it's in place!!! This is an original Stuart Turner cast bronze prop no longer available I believe. I know there are probably much nicer finished examples available now but after all this time I feel it deserves to be used.
(https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-t7tWjtBoRK8/VVpIzlEmW1I/AAAAAAAANDo/y5hvn2snAeI/s912/DSCF6966.JPG)

With that in place the rudder could take it's spot too, ready for the linkage to be installed later - I've just noticed the old tooth brush used for getting T-Cut out of the crevices  ::) What is that well versed point about looking beyond the subject? aagh!!
(https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-yd9ECG1Gmbs/VVpIz-O4J5I/AAAAAAAANDk/pU05CD8XnRg/s912/DSCF6969.JPG)

Well that's another stage accomplished despite the somewhat diminishing enthusiasm - tomorrow / Wednesday should see all the fittings in place so I'll review the situation regarding the next stage at that point

Regards for now - Ramon
Title: Re: 'WIDE A WAKE' a steam launch tale
Post by: sco on May 18, 2015, 10:05:49 PM
No words just a massive  :ThumbsUp:

Simon.
Title: Re: 'WIDE A WAKE' a steam launch tale
Post by: b.lindsey on May 18, 2015, 10:08:18 PM
Ditto what Simon said Ramon. Its absolutely beautiful!!!

Bill
Title: Re: 'WIDE A WAKE' a steam launch tale
Post by: mklotz on May 18, 2015, 10:14:00 PM
It just gets better and better.  Choose the right photo background and you could convince anyone it was a full-sized pleasure boat.
Title: Re: 'WIDE A WAKE' a steam launch tale
Post by: mike mott on May 18, 2015, 11:21:07 PM
Absolutely beautiful, I am sure that you are looking forward to seeing the day when the prop makes some wash and the boat moves away from shore.

Mike
Title: Re: 'WIDE A WAKE' a steam launch tale
Post by: Kim on May 19, 2015, 05:09:02 AM
It's beautiful Ramon. You've done an absolutely stunning job!
Kim
Title: 'WIDE A WAKE' a steam launch tale
Post by: ths on May 19, 2015, 09:50:33 PM
What everyone has said. It will be good to see that prop get wet, and in relation to looking beyond the subject, the bandsaw figurehead is a startling addition. Superb. Cheers, Hugh.
Title: Re: 'WIDE A WAKE' a steam launch tale
Post by: Ramon on June 09, 2015, 10:36:47 PM
Hi guys - just where does the time go when you are enjoying yourself  ;D

I have to confess I've been enjoying myself distracted by the garden, a unbelievable resurrection in 'running' :o with my old running mate who now has two new hips and is full of beans - what with his hips and my well shot knees we make a fine geriatric pair I can tell you but it is great to be doing something again that we enjoyed so much in our day. I've decided to take a good break from the Wide a Wake and have deviated off on another 'plastic distraction'  ::) for a time to let the cells recharge a bit before tacking the engine etc but more on that a bit later.

So what's brought me out of my rather pleasant reverie? Well, unfortunately hearing something about myself, obviously emanating from UK members, that simply isn't true. Something, which I trust you'll understand is one that needs addressing.

Having just got home from the trot around the common this morning full of endorphins and feeling somewhat smug that I can still actually run (well as well as you can at seventy) as opposed to jog I received a concerned call from my good friend Chris (Modelsteam) asking as to my well being. He had received an email from another member asking after my health as the sender had - quote - 'heard a murmur' that I was unwell - unquote. Given my good feeling we obviously had a chuckle over that and I assured him to the contrary. This afternoon however he rang again to say that having confirmed that fact to the sender he received another email stating that the 'murmur' was in fact actually a rumour and one that I was 'suffering from depression'   :ROFL: - Actually to be perfectly truthful that was not quite so funny!

Now I have, many years ago, suffered from work induced depression so I'm well aware of it's effect on the person but it's an illness not the plague! It was not a very pleasant time in my life at the time that's for sure and is something I would not wish to experience again. So, looking back at that time, I'm sure whoever began this rumour, for whatever their reason, would like to be absolutely reassured that I'm definitely not in that situation now.

Though obviously it's not pleasant to hear of such misconceptions I'm not offended by the situation - after all somebody may have got the wrong end of the stick somewhere but a quick email could have so easily prevented something like this becoming endemic.  I don't doubt for one minute that the question was asked of Chris in a well meaning way but whoever started this rumour and indeed any who seek to perpetuate it need to know - you've heard it from the horses mouth - it isn't true.

I do hope that won't be taken out of context and seen as a rant - just setting the record straight guys  ;)


Now - to other matters far more interesting.

As said I have put the boat on hold. The main reason for this is, having worked fairly diligently on it through the winter I gradually became aware I was pushing myself to see it launched this year. When I looked at the list of things to do in order to achieve that I felt it was something I would not attain with the available time and other commitments. I have now got it all fitted out as far as fitting the engine and boiler - I had considered using the engine as it is without reversing gear just to get it on the water but that's not what I really want - I really would like to finish it 'completely' including the engine before getting that champagne out  ;) So, it's on hold until later in the year or early next when I'll pick it up again fully recharged to see it through.

In the meantime however I've taken these pics so you can see where it's currently at..........

Fairleads and Stem Plate fitted and the nameplate fixed in place at last
(https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-aFGP2HRGcIQ/VXc-1FgOSoI/AAAAAAAANFs/l2PeaWe2YIE/s912/DSCF6970.JPG)

The gas tank - still to have an official pressure test - is well hidden up the bow
(https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-vXErFMyIuXM/VXc-5yTlHLI/AAAAAAAANGQ/lGj_wQSHe6c/s912/DSCF6998.JPG)

The water tanks are finished and bolted in place along with the balance pipework
(https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-LniUdFsk7Kw/VXc-1XJG9oI/AAAAAAAANF0/P2ofqnY9FU4/s912/DSCF6972.JPG)

The engine alignment is better than hoped and it ticks over very slowly on air without any binding
(https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-3RNxPglCzZM/VXc-379lSRI/AAAAAAAANF8/wmlYyp3cdwI/s912/DSCF6985.JPG)

A closer shot - the oiler works well, I had my doubts as that tube has a micro bore but it runs through easily enough
(https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-zxbXcf02QSI/VXc-8yDptwI/AAAAAAAANGg/KgmmgSUDlgs/s912/DSCF7003.JPG)

The wheel will eventually get some dummy rudder cables that will disappear to a fixed point under the deck
(https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-4m_l7ORpp0c/VXc-6mVlFBI/AAAAAAAANGU/EkCWmFY2s90/s912/DSCF7000.JPG)

I enjoyed making the little button catches to retain that aft hatch cover. The lower hull will eventually be fitted with floorboards or a grating (or a combination)
(https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-S8hAaClPpuo/VXc-9GkF5wI/AAAAAAAANGk/71b04e-Ju1o/s912/DSCF7004.JPG)

The rudder is finally linked up and connected to the servo inside that aft hatch. The links on the servo arm are commercial ball joints, the push/pull linkage were turned from steel and oil blackened
(https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-YMSsBkyeZt4/VXc-1TzEKdI/AAAAAAAANFw/rt_xFBp7nbA/s912/DSCF6984.JPG)

And this is it folks, the last look until the next session
(https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-3jUXoMrBKBk/VXc-5rjCXJI/AAAAAAAANGI/IqMokYwifI0/s912/DSCF6995.JPG)


Thanks for following along so far - I'll be back soon enough no doubt - in the meantime enjoy the summer and have a great modelling time whatever you are doing.

As a certain person would remark - y'all have a good time now ya hear

Regards - Ramon (potentially now aka Happy Boy  :D)









Title: Re: 'WIDE A WAKE' a steam launch tale
Post by: tvoght on June 09, 2015, 11:45:44 PM
Wide A Wake is a stunning piece of work. And it's always nice to hear anyone report good health.

--Tim
Title: Re: 'WIDE A WAKE' a steam launch tale
Post by: b.lindsey on June 09, 2015, 11:52:33 PM
Glad to hear you are fit as a fiddle Ramon, though I had not heard otherwise. The Wide-A-Wake is looking fine and whenever you get back around to it, I will be looking forward to it.

Bill
Title: Re: 'WIDE A WAKE' a steam launch tale
Post by: Robert Hornby on June 10, 2015, 12:12:10 AM
I am constantly amazed at the detail and quality of your work Ramon. It is not just a model boat it is truly a piece of art, 10 out of 10 from me. The rudder linkages look wonderful and if I may will copy them when (or ''IF" I get that far). I am traveling to the UK in July and will spend 2 days in Windermere to hopefully view the prototype of my model and take some photos of the interior. Anyway Ramon congratulations on your work.
Robert
Title: Re: 'WIDE A WAKE' a steam launch tale
Post by: Don1966 on June 10, 2015, 01:25:26 AM
Ramon, like Bill I have't hear anything of you being ill and am glad to see you been out enjoying yourself. The Wide Awake is a beautiful piece of art and well worth the effort of getting it the way you want it to be and it will still be there waiting next year for you to complete, as the rest of us will be waiting also. Take care my friend and enjoy yourself.

Regards Don
Title: Re: 'WIDE A WAKE' a steam launch tale
Post by: fumopuc on June 10, 2015, 05:27:35 AM
Hi Ramon, this boat is a real piece of art. The quality of your work is excellent. I admire your work in wood.
Title: Re: 'WIDE A WAKE' a steam launch tale
Post by: Jasonb on June 10, 2015, 07:49:25 AM
Good to see a bit more progress, just don't let this running lark keep you out of the workshop for too long ;)

J
Title: Re: 'WIDE A WAKE' a steam launch tale
Post by: Maryak on June 11, 2015, 01:44:45 AM
Hi Ramon,

Colour me green; but I would be happy to be as fit and depressed as you are  :cheers:

Wide Awake, (most of the night), I can manage. ;)
 
Best Regards
Bob
Title: Re: 'WIDE A WAKE' a steam launch tale
Post by: Ramon on June 11, 2015, 09:28:17 AM
Thanks as always guys for your kind comments  :)

Bill, Don, - I don't think this was anything other than a UK based rumour. I haven't got a clue why anyone would care to say such a thing but I felt it best to get it in the open and nip it firmly in the bud.  Since I was shown the tape measure analogy on lifespan it's had a profound effect on my thinking - I really don't have time for anything now but positive thoughts - life's far too short.

Jason - time was, running filled a large part of my life but now I have an inbuilt self regulator - my knees  ::) Never fear, much as I wish I could, those days will never return so workshop time shouldn't be too affected.

Robert - I hope you can get back on your boat soon - use whatever you want, it's nice to think that you are inspired  :)

Achim, Tim, Bob, good to hear from you and that you are still following. Your comments really are much appreciated.

I note my last post was a bit of a mile stone - '1000' so this is my first for hopefully the second thousand however, though I know a lot look in on a regular basis this will be my last post on this project for a while so I hope you will understand the  need to take a break - this has been the longest project I've worked on for many years now. I much prefer shorter project time spans but finish it I will - just not right now.

Regards to you all, have a great summer (or winter depending where you are) - I'll be back soon

Ramon
Title: Re: 'WIDE A WAKE' a steam launch tale
Post by: Jim Nic on June 11, 2015, 10:37:49 AM
Ramon
Although when I see the "Wideawake" subject tag on a post it is always the first thing I look at although I have not made comment so far, I am just a fan of your beautiful work and this launch in particular.  I feel that modelling is just a hobby and if the task in hand becomes a chore it's time to put it down and refresh the "mojo" as you are now doing.  This project began in 1972 so a couple of months more to ensure the ship is not spoiled for a ha'porth of tar (as my Mum would say) is well worth the wait.
I look forward to seeing the next steps in due course, whenever that may be.  I just hope there is not another 40 year pause
Jim
Title: Re: 'WIDE A WAKE' a steam launch tale
Post by: K.B.C on June 11, 2015, 12:19:59 PM
Ramon ,
You are due a rest, like everybody else I can't add anything to the comments.

If I can suggest an alternative to sore knees get a bike, it will give you a sore rear end but after a few rides it goes away.
I have been cycling since I was 7, now 76 and still doing about 3-rides a week of 20-30 miles and never had sore knees but then I was never forced to run many miles with a pack on my back, enjoy the break,.
Here is a pic of my trusty stead.

Regards
George.
Title: Re: 'WIDE A WAKE' a steam launch tale
Post by: KNO3 on September 18, 2015, 06:53:36 PM
What a beautiful build! I have only now discovered this thread and will be following your progress. Congratulations!
Title: Re: 'WIDE A WAKE' a steam launch tale
Post by: steamrudder on October 03, 2015, 11:13:29 PM
Hi Rammon
I too have just finished reading your tale and it was Da-ja-vou all the way. what a great build you should be very proud of your achievement.
I built my version 30+years ago starting just after it was published, and finishing it 10 years later. She was then then sailed for a season and then entered into the UK Model Engineer Exhibition winning joint second prize (No first prize was awarded). After the show was over the model was mothballed.
I retired last year and this spring the model was resurrected with the installation of a modern radio control system, followed by a refurbish of the D10. Despite filling the cylinders with steam oil none made it into the slide valves and three decades of ferrous oxide had to be dealt with.
Steering on the original model was always a disappointment but a minor adjustment to the rudder profile has produced a vast improvement in the handling. Finally the Primus bottle and burner have been dispensed with and a new Wet Gas burner designed. This redesign provides a very good radio control of the burner flame, stops the gas from freezing in the can and provides more than two and three quarter hours of running.
This is my first post and as yet i have not found out how to include pictures within the post but when I do I will send some pictures of the re-launch.
if you are interested in my changes I will furnish you with the details
keep up the good work
Steam Rudder
P.S. When i was 35 this boat was quite light but in the intervening decades it seams to have got a lot heaver, perhaps gravity has changed!!
Title: Re: 'WIDE A WAKE' a steam launch tale
Post by: Ramon on October 04, 2015, 08:56:23 PM
Hello Steam Rudder.

My friend Chris told me today that someone had posted on here much as a recent contact did via PM on the Model Engineer Forum. If you are 'David Nicholson' then I did reply to your PMs on there but I see they are still unread. I did send you an email too as you asked but perhaps it got sifted into a junk folder. When I had no reply I assumed you may have been on holiday or later that perhaps something worse had occurred.

Yes, though my project is on hold for the moment, I would like to see pics of your model as well as to hear what you have done with the gas system. Your comment on the rudder profile is intriguing too. I use Picasa to store images which I find very easy to use to imbed into any post. That said I have come home tonight to find I cannot access my email account and nothing can be accessed from my desktop. I have to go through google to look at anything so this is going off to the sick bay in the morning.

If you are David Nicholson them I'm glad to have made contact with you again and look forward to hearing from

Regards - Ramon
Title: Re: 'WIDE A WAKE' a steam launch tale
Post by: b.lindsey on October 04, 2015, 09:09:38 PM
Welcome Steamrudder. As you can, please post an introduction in the " introduce yourself" section so the we can welcome you properly. Also in the "suggestion box and forum help" section you will find a brief tutorial on posting pictures to the forum as well.

Bill
Title: Re: 'WIDE A WAKE' a steam launch tale
Post by: Ramon on November 24, 2015, 11:38:55 PM
Hello Guys - this does seem strange  :-\

It's not usual that I feel the need to apologise for enjoying myself but I'm afraid that's exactly what I'll have to do  :-[

Owing to so many other factors which have occupied the time all summer and up to now it has been quite a while since I last looked in here but speaking with Chris this morning brought me up to date so to speak. He told me about Eric's unfortunate accident with Jo's engine so I rang him this afternoon to sympathise and catch up. He in turn told me about Jasons glo engine which of course I've missed which made me realise I've been well absent without leave.

The boat which I can now see many have checked into is still in abeyance but hopefully not for too much longer. I am hoping to get back onto it as planned around Feb/March next year. Hope I won't have worn your patience down by then  ::)
It's been out to the Forncett show and to another (very) successful Lowestoft Model exhibition where it was well received - it has to go on the water next year.

In the meantime I'm still enjoying  the weekly trot around the common (three laps now  ;)) sailing still occupies the weekend and the remainder has been spent either on the garden (little) or on another plastic distraction (lots ::)) I have had a slight remission in finally making a base for the McOnie engine and even made a couple of more parts for it - more to pacify the chiding from Chris's wife Gill  :D

So once again my apologies for my lack of input but I guess it has allowed me to concentrate a bit more on other things for a while.

Kind regards to you all - back soon - Ramon
Title: Re: 'WIDE A WAKE' a steam launch tale
Post by: b.lindsey on November 25, 2015, 12:34:33 AM
We are a patient lot Ramon, so keep enjoying life and we'll be here when you are ready. Always nice to hear from you though!!

Bill
Title: Re: 'WIDE A WAKE' a steam launch tale
Post by: Don1966 on November 25, 2015, 12:51:57 AM
Same here Ramon, so just keep on enjoying yourself. We will still be here waiting for so more input. Glad to see you in good spirits and health my friend.......... :ThumbsUp:

Don
Title: Re: 'WIDE A WAKE' a steam launch tale
Post by: Jasonb on November 25, 2015, 07:43:10 AM
Good to hear you have been enjoying yourself, look forward to the naming ceremony and launch but hopefully a few more updates before then ;)

J
Title: Re: 'WIDE A WAKE' a steam launch tale
Post by: Ramon on November 25, 2015, 11:24:49 AM
Thanks Bill, Don and Jason, good to hear from you.

Once again my apologies for not keeping up with what everyone has been up to but I'll be back as soon as I can and do my best to catch up then.

Regards - Ramon
Title: Re: 'WIDE A WAKE' a steam launch tale
Post by: vcutajar on November 25, 2015, 12:08:49 PM
Hi Ramon.  Hope it was a great summer for you.

Vince
Title: Re: 'WIDE A WAKE' a steam launch tale
Post by: K.B.C on November 25, 2015, 05:58:28 PM
Hi Ramon,
It's good to hear that your back again and that you are well, I did wonder what had happened to you, don't over do the running , remember those old knees of yours.

George.
Title: Re: 'WIDE A WAKE' a steam launch tale
Post by: Ramon on November 25, 2015, 07:06:22 PM
Hi Vince - Yep it certainly was  :) How are you these days  - are you back in Malta or still over here?

George - nice to hear from you. Yes still alive and kicking and surprisingly not too much protest from those old knees.

I've decided to completely rebuild the engine but aren't in a position to do so quite yet. Same old story - plenty to do just not so much time to do it in  ;)

Regards - Ramon
Title: Re: 'WIDE A WAKE' a steam launch tale
Post by: Ramon on December 24, 2015, 09:04:28 AM
Hi Guy's - just thought I'd pop in and wish you all a very pleasant Christmas and also a Happy and Productive New Year.

I'm still a mite 'distracted' but I can say I've kept the boat in mind and that the drawings for the engine mods have now been completed and that the material has been cut off ready for building the cylinder head and reversing gear.

All the very best to you all - hope you all get what you wish for  :)

Hope to be back in earnest in a few weeks

:cheers:  Have a great time   :cheers:

Regards - Ramon
Title: Re: 'WIDE A WAKE' a steam launch tale
Post by: Robert Hornby on December 24, 2015, 09:35:17 AM
Thanks for the update Ramon, all the best for the festive season from down under. :drinking-41:
Robert
Title: Re: 'WIDE A WAKE' a steam launch tale
Post by: Don1966 on December 24, 2015, 03:53:33 PM
Awesome my friend and we will await your return. Wishing a joyful and healthy holiday season to you and your family. By the way you will glad to know the Waller is next on my list.

 :drinking-41:

Don
Title: Re: 'WIDE A WAKE' a steam launch tale
Post by: Ramon on March 18, 2016, 12:24:28 PM
Well hello at last guys :) My apologies for this long break from this project but at last, I'm pleased to tell, there is something to report  - not a lot I agree - but something  :)

As intended I want to get to grips with this again at the end of the month or so. The first thing that requires attention is the engine rebuild so this week a tentative (and I do mean tentative  ;)) start has been made in preparation for that to begin.

The engine, a Stuart Double Ten you may recall has no reversing gear so that will require making. I would like however to personalise this little engine in some way so have decided to make a new 'one piece' head. Rather than mill this from a solid lump I have decided to fabricate it much like the Waller engine way back when on HMEM using cast iron held together with JB Weld. As JBW is good for much higher temperatures than those envisaged whilst running this is an experiment to see if it will stand up to the rigours of steam in that application.
 
Whilst JBW will cure over night I feel it's much better to allow it to cure for as long as possible before machining. This then is the tentative start - machining the pieces and assembling them in preparation for the 'off' in a couple of weeks time

I did the drawings a while back and cut the material a few weeks ago
(https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-J8T9BK9T41c/Vus2w3jx7zI/AAAAAAAAOPs/eseB1HGXZAw130j3mtgM-Eqw3_A4caMWQCCo/s800-Ic42/DSCF8662.JPG)

After machining the top and lower plates to size plus 1mm all round they were bored together. I didn't use a plug gauge just moving to each hole as the tool was advanced and finishing both holes on the same setting and several spring cuts.
(https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-FdQHeMA1ENY/Vus2wx_J1yI/AAAAAAAAOPs/t7tOr7VDrws7jdo5yYNp4HNPr4qfoddrACCo/s800-Ic42/DSCF8668.JPG)

The cylinders had registers turned to push fits in the lower plate and slightly loose fit in the top. The area between the registers was .5mm bigger on diameter. The end blocks were cut to fit using the boring tool (advanced .25mm)....
(https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-Z3HK-3PCzwY/Vus2xLCQPNI/AAAAAAAAOPs/1OkEltf4hKc19TR-d6z6xbocH80SFxhIwCCo/s800-Ic42/DSCF8671.JPG)

.......and similarly the central web. Incidentally - that's not a coolant hose but the new 'extraction system' to take care of the dust  that circulates from CI
(https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-x5TjGKuINM0/Vus2y-D2g1I/AAAAAAAAOPs/1TqKyVzSazgKW1n0Q7o55qznYdoKisPLQCCo/s800-Ic42/DSCF8676.JPG)

All parts ready to assemble - cylinder tops and bottoms roughed at the same time
(https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/--WIXrYDGsGA/Vus2zjOjHmI/AAAAAAAAOPs/V5GSzBQ7qZgNm0iQE3Vy7HZrP9milLfEgCCo/s800-Ic42/DSCF8678.JPG)

A dry fit test run, the only screws were those four 8BA's more to keep the end blocks in line than acting as a fastener
(https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-mw9wnQGNA6I/VuvsPvEg6BI/AAAAAAAAOQQ/89zKMVoCbFAswODk-k-gn_OndegXlufwwCCo/s800-Ic42/DSCF8683.JPG)

The two cylinders were pressed in with a dab of 601 Loctite but the remainder was put together with nice thick coatings of JB Weld on all contact surfaces and plenty applied for fillets. These will be ground to shape once cure and possibly another layer added for strength.
(https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-kNUZx58hTM4/VuvsPVlX2nI/AAAAAAAAOQQ/5Sa3e8SWkCAXsrk2ReUmJVyqU62HpGNswCCo/s800-Ic42/DSCF8688.JPG)

Well, that's the first step in what will hopefully be the last phase. There's my latest plastic build  ::) to just finish off in the next week or so then it's back on this with earnest - he said with all good intentions, and we all know what good intentions can do  :-[.

Thanks for looking in - I see so many have since the last update it's embarrassing but I did need to step back a bit and revitalise the energy a bit for this project.

Regards - Ramon
Title: Re: 'WIDE A WAKE' a steam launch tale
Post by: Jasonb on March 18, 2016, 01:17:36 PM
It must be the increased daylight hours that have drawn you out into the workshop ;) Good to see some swarf production again and look forward to following along.

J
Title: Re: 'WIDE A WAKE' a steam launch tale
Post by: b.lindsey on March 18, 2016, 01:49:59 PM
That's more than just tentative Ramon!  Nice to see you back at it too.

Bill
Title: Re: 'WIDE A WAKE' a steam launch tale
Post by: Don1966 on March 18, 2016, 05:56:30 PM
 A great start and welcome back to making swarf my friend. I will be following your progress with great interest...... :ThumbsUp:

Don
Title: Re: 'WIDE A WAKE' a steam launch tale
Post by: Tennessee Whiskey on March 18, 2016, 06:54:35 PM
Better pull you up a chair folks;  one of the masters is posting again.  Welcome back Ramon.  I'm  :popcorn: :DrinkPint: and following along.  Great to "see" you.

Cletus
Title: Re: 'WIDE A WAKE' a steam launch tale
Post by: zeeprogrammer on March 18, 2016, 09:42:31 PM
Same here.  :ThumbsUp:

I like that CI dust extraction tool.
Title: Re: 'WIDE A WAKE' a steam launch tale
Post by: 10KPete on March 18, 2016, 10:18:08 PM
Oh yeah!! :cartwheel:

This business of built-up engines is really interesting. I have lots of small bits and darned few big ones round here.

 :popcorn: :popcorn:

Pete
Title: Re: 'WIDE A WAKE' a steam launch tale
Post by: Ramon on March 19, 2016, 11:32:28 PM
Jason, Bill, Don 'T dubbleYa', Zee and Pete thanks for the greetings  :)

Jason - I've been enjoying myself  in the workshop all winter just not on the metal side  :D (Well, to be honest that's not quite true as I did rebuild this from a very poor state - only original piece is the Main Frame)
(https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-2oYm0XzIqac/VpbASrfCErI/AAAAAAAAN4Y/lTqEjkWnm7gu0Yj4QED1nWNQ2YpqageTgCCo/s800-Ic42/DSCF8207.JPG)

Glad to see the Waller is next on your list Don - A lovely engine just right for the 'Don' treatment.

'Whiskey' You silver tongued owd devil you - you doin that smooth talkin' agin buddy  :-[

Zee - I love machining CI it just doesn't love me - I do suffer with the dust so finally decided to fix something up - its just 1/2" bore Loc Line hose to a acetal fitting onto which the vacuum is plugged. Doesn't pick up the chips so much but has made a huge difference to the dust production.

Pete the result already seems absolutely rock solid - time will tell if it will handle the steam on a regular basis (I'm confident it will but ???)

Thanks for looking in guys - I hope to begin on this engine proper within ten days or so

Regards - Ramon
Title: Re: 'WIDE A WAKE' a steam launch tale
Post by: DTR on March 20, 2016, 09:18:10 AM
Ramon, that is beautiful!
Title: Re: 'WIDE A WAKE' a steam launch tale
Post by: Jasonb on March 20, 2016, 10:04:21 AM
Nice job on the texturing, almost hides the fact they are fabricated cylinders :ThumbsUp:
Title: Re: 'WIDE A WAKE' a steam launch tale
Post by: sco on March 20, 2016, 10:56:03 AM
Ramon,

Nice to see you back posting progress on Wide A Wake, not sure I'm as confident as you in JB Weld's ability to withstand steam temperatures - what does it say on the spec sheet and have you considered making a test piece to check its adhesion to cast iron at temperature?

Simon.
Title: Re: 'WIDE A WAKE' a steam launch tale
Post by: Ramon on March 20, 2016, 01:03:56 PM
Hi Simon, No, for once this is the test piece  :D . If it proves to be ineffective then I'll have to machine a head from solid.

The manufacture states it withstands heat to 550 F and has a tensile strength of 3960 psi. Whether either of these will reduce as the temp increases I have no idea. However many years ago I patched a blowhole in a cylinder when building a Stuart Twin Victoria. I used a similar product - Loctite 'Metal-Set'.
That engine ran on steam (dried but not superheated) at shows for many years without deterioration and that was in direct contact with the steam itself- this isn't the case here.

Thanks for the thought though - hope you and Wendy are well

Regards - Ramon
Title: Re: 'WIDE A WAKE' a steam launch tale
Post by: Nick_G on March 20, 2016, 03:21:18 PM
.
I am quite new to this forum and this is the first time I have seen this thread.

I am stunned by your range of skills and abilities.  :ThumbsUp:

Nick  :)
Title: Re: 'WIDE A WAKE' a steam launch tale
Post by: Ramon on March 29, 2016, 10:07:43 PM
Hi Nick Thanks for looking in - hope you enjoy the remainder of the journey.

Well the 'plastic bench' is clean and tidy and everything put away for a while at least. I confess my interest in that direction grows at the expense of interest in model engineering projects but I shall try to see this through to the finish and on the water this year.

Work kicked off then in machining the steam chests to finish size except turning the valve rod gland housing (no pics). Attention then turned to the cylinder head. Now well cured it doesn't look particularly aesthetic at first glance ...
(https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-qnVpkdO-Obc/VvrozKAr9HI/AAAAAAAAOUc/2gGJCqQXWNUJypah7QXh6fhESR8Q-brmACCo/s800-Ic42/DSCF8790.JPG)

.... but a quick whizz with a rotary burr in a Dremel type power tool soon improved matters. It still looks a bit heavy here so a coat of primer was sprayed on to highlight the areas.
(https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-r6yv85Hq74Y/VvroyxAdYbI/AAAAAAAAOUg/qPUP9yWAx2IBLtHvtqFz8F9hPpsXFpJ0QCCo/s800-Ic42/DSCF8793.JPG)

After another whizz with the 'Dremel' and another coat of primer it was ready to machine.
(https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-7xNGb48TyLc/Vvroy0im66I/AAAAAAAAOU0/Uiw8e5GYapUrzDVPwe85hkrProkbeRi-ACCo/s800-Ic42/DSCF8795.JPG)

It was finish milled all over using a 6mm FC3 cutter, the last face being the lower one, and the head left in situ in the vise to ensure  the bores are nice and square to it. This cheap little boring head performs very well - only draw back is the lack of power feed  :(
(https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-MrplzsYGXPw/Vvro1i66rGI/AAAAAAAAOU0/PibPUGOMdVILw7dqNfTfyMHrkFMS5p-ZgCCo/s800-Ic42/DSCF8802.JPG)

That's the state of play as to the first day - I began to strip the engine down ready for stripping all the paint off and starting again -
here's a last look at it in it's current condition.
(https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-7asWQo5zcSQ/Vvro1Q5vBkI/AAAAAAAAOU0/LK6adBiwA7ATbqM4TKUE3EJZpLcLVmp7wCCo/s800-Ic42/DSCF8797.JPG)

Well that's it for today - postings should be a bit more regular than of late  :o - Thanks for looking in

Regards - Ramon

Title: Re: 'WIDE A WAKE' a steam launch tale
Post by: Don1966 on March 29, 2016, 11:35:14 PM
That really turned out great Ramon and with the primer coat, one would never know. As usual it's great to see progress my friend..... :ThumbsUp:

Don  :wine1:
Title: Re: 'WIDE A WAKE' a steam launch tale
Post by: b.lindsey on March 30, 2016, 12:20:14 AM
Very nice Ramon. Looks just like a casting!!

Bill
Title: Re: 'WIDE A WAKE' a steam launch tale
Post by: Jasonb on March 30, 2016, 07:40:57 AM
Ramon as this is a working engine will you not be lagging and cleading the cylinder? though its nice to know it looks good underneath :)
Title: Re: 'WIDE A WAKE' a steam launch tale
Post by: Ramon on March 30, 2016, 09:02:26 PM
Hi Don, Bill and Jason - thanks for sticking with it  ;)

Jason - my intention is to clad it with wood strip lagging but as you say it's still got to look right eh  :D

No pics tonight but a good day on the block with the bores finished and various holes drilled and tapped (about halfway).

Stripped  the engine down to find very worn big end bearings which may possibly have to be remade. I was intending to make new steel con-rods and incorporate the big end portion from the original gunmetal rods but I think it may be better to make fresh ones. The good news is that the crank and main bearings are sound turning over very smoothly but with no free movement

The base and standards are soaking in cellulose thinner to remove the paint so once repainted the build up can begin.

Apologies for the lack of pics - perhaps tomorrow

Regards - Ramon
Title: Re: 'WIDE A WAKE' a steam launch tale
Post by: b.lindsey on March 31, 2016, 12:21:17 AM

Apologies for the lack of pics - perhaps tomorrow



Yeah we wouldn't want to be confusing you with Zee   :lolb:

Bill
Title: Re: 'WIDE A WAKE' a steam launch tale
Post by: derekwarner on March 31, 2016, 12:37:31 AM
Ramon.....I have been with you again since the recommencement a few weeks back....

That JB Weld epoxy has good compressive strength, its mechanical properties virtually unaffected at the temperatures it will be exposed to here [140 degrees C?], however suffers terribly in tension in its bond strength to the parent material

So the thing that I am unsure of is those 8BA countersunk screws  :hammerbash: securing the end plates ....

Having said this, I do understand the forces we are talking about are say 3Bar over the small port size drillings of 3.2? diameter

Derek
Title: Re: 'WIDE A WAKE' a steam launch tale
Post by: Ramon on March 31, 2016, 01:20:51 PM
Yeah we wouldn't want to be confusing you with Zee   :lolb:

No chance there Bill I don't have a TuTu  :Lol:

Derek - Thanks for your continued interest and input in this project - much appreciated. As I said to Simon this is a test piece. Though I am pretty confident that this will work out okay it's not based on anything scientific (save the JB specs) but more on previous usage of something similar. When you say parent metal are you thinking specifically CI as previous experience with it on steel has shown what I would consider exceptional adhesion

Those 8BA screws were not considered until the last moment and only then for holding the end blocks in position as the JBW cured. The top and lower plates are in actual fact clamped to the cylinder ends by the cylinder covers/bolts but, as designed, nothing was holding the end blocks in save JBW. I had decided when assembling it, though as yet not done so, to drill for two dowels in similar positions as the screws through the top face. Once in I think that should be sufficient to hold then end blocks against any possible pressure.

Boiler pressure is 60 psi which is 307F so well below the upper limit of 500F of JBW. The steam is going through a dryer so some increase is obvious but in all probability will have dropped again by the time it reaches the cylinder. 

How it will all work out remains to be seen - 'proof' and 'pudding' springs to mind  ;)

More holes in this morning all looking good so far

Regards - Ramon
Title: Re: 'WIDE A WAKE' a steam launch tale
Post by: Ramon on April 01, 2016, 06:13:19 PM
Hi Guys

Just a quick update - the head is now finished and has taken less time than envisaged. I was able to utilise the lower plates from the original which helped a bit I guess. The steam chest still require the gland housing turning but I shan't do that until I've made the glands so that they can be drilled and reamed in situ.
(https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-K_Q2iLplqsE/Vv6nuY_cEaI/AAAAAAAAOVU/aedYR3mKMWITt-WYBUyBIwW084Hme6PtwCCo/s800-Ic42/DSCF8814.JPG)

There are a few more holes than the original to give it a little more 'scale' - one heart stopping moment this afternoon when taking out the bottom of the threads with a carbon tap but fortunately there was just enough left to get hold of and it came out with ease - phew  :D

The end angles were machined by setting it against an angle plate on a bar set at the right angle. Repeatability was good - unfortunately the pics I took were all totally blurred - must have been on the wrong setting  ::)

Anyway here's it's first assembly.....
(https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-Nm5qCGATl7Q/Vv6nujlnb4I/AAAAAAAAOVY/TkNFD8_VQhUt8yVy35p4cSKu-PgyDmBvQCCo/s800-Ic42/DSCF8823.JPG)

..... and set up on the stripped and fettled standards.
(https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-Htikk_MjTRg/Vv6nwPMgAWI/AAAAAAAAOVs/42v44eHmL4I24MS4T-Qlw4XzkDkm-K9LgCCo/s800-Ic42/DSCF8828.JPG)

I feel that's a good start for the first week back - lot's to do though.

Regards - Ramon

Title: Re: 'WIDE A WAKE' a steam launch tale
Post by: Don1966 on April 01, 2016, 06:33:20 PM
Looks great Ramon and I can say it really looks the cast part. The family shot shows it off great........ :praise2:

Don  :wine1:
Title: Re: 'WIDE A WAKE' a steam launch tale
Post by: cwelkie on April 02, 2016, 12:46:39 AM
Nicely done parts Ramon!
Between you and Jason the pair of you will put the foundries out of business. >:D
Charlie
Title: Re: 'WIDE A WAKE' a steam launch tale
Post by: crueby on April 02, 2016, 02:55:53 AM
Great way to build up the block! Looks fantastic, just like one big casting. Have to remember that technique.
Title: Re: 'WIDE A WAKE' a steam launch tale
Post by: fumopuc on April 02, 2016, 06:25:25 AM
Hi Ramon, good to see you back at it. I like this way of parts fabrication. I will watch every further progress.
Title: Re: 'WIDE A WAKE' a steam launch tale
Post by: Ramon on April 05, 2016, 09:16:43 PM
Hi Don, Charlie, Crueby and Achim - nice to hear from you and glad to hear you think the 'casting' looks like one  :)

A few things got in the way over the weekend - usual things like sailing, garden etc but having made the steam chest covers today I now have all the new head parts finished off.
(https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-pcvpq0-SGo8/VwQWBZifMuI/AAAAAAAAOWs/COop78uJyWMz5avnMTeTDcoUCN5w5j31wCCo/s800-Ic42/DSCF8848.JPG)

The steam chest glands were drilled and reamed in situ to ensure concentricity
(https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-4HmBcNWfWAE/VwQV_uXz7rI/AAAAAAAAOWs/Io7SIaCQfQwmkynFYaVNA7OehnLoKC-1wCCo/s800-Ic42/DSCF8832.JPG)
I don't think I've used that ground angle plate on the face plate before. It was one I made sometime back at work for use on a surface grinder. I was however surprised to see a date etched on - 'T Wilson 1985' - did I really make that 31 years ago, I was just turned 40  :o

With the exhaust flanges turned from gunmetal that completes the head parts. Those original lower covers had an additional two 6BA c'sunk screws put in for security. The original screw PCD was right on the join line of the cylinder part and the lower plate so these go into the cylinder wall proper.
(https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-4ev_hM1K0gY/VwQV_14yp3I/AAAAAAAAOWs/-XfUwFs92XI7yWjUj6ZIgx8-FxMmvxdngCCo/s800-Ic42/DSCF8836.JPG)

The milled in recess along the sides is for the lagging
(https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-jqeIwae_g2w/VwQV_-lpIcI/AAAAAAAAOWs/1V7k3wGEGLEtY_nPsTj3hsb4PwkqgrtuwCCo/s800-Ic42/DSCF8840.JPG)
Those studs in the end are 7BA. Anyone in the UK know of one size smaller 7BA nuts or will I have to drill and re thread 8BA ones?

Well, that's it, the first phase of the rebuild done. I'll start the painting tomorrow and begin making the lay-shaft brackets I think


Regards - Ramon
Title: Re: 'WIDE A WAKE' a steam launch tale
Post by: crueby on April 05, 2016, 10:36:40 PM
 Looking great!

For the smaller nuts, you could always thread them on an arbor and mill the flats down, assuming what you meant was smaller diameter? Or if you have the right size taps just make up some new ones. Amazing the difference that kind of little detail makes.
Title: Re: 'WIDE A WAKE' a steam launch tale
Post by: zeeprogrammer on April 05, 2016, 11:00:44 PM
Wow! The parts look great!  :ThumbsUp:

I try to keep up with things but this one slipped through. To my own disappointment. Very nice work.

Maybe it was the mention of the tu-tu that drew my eye.  :Lol:

Yeah we wouldn't want to be confusing you with Zee   :lolb:
No chance there Bill I don't have a TuTu  :Lol:

You should give it a try. Builds character.
If you survive.
Title: Re: 'WIDE A WAKE' a steam launch tale
Post by: Don1966 on April 05, 2016, 11:12:32 PM
Ramon I love the way the parts turned out, I don't think this is your first rodeo. . :cheers:...... :ThumbsUp:


 :popcorn:
Don
Title: Re: 'WIDE A WAKE' a steam launch tale
Post by: Jasonb on April 06, 2016, 07:42:54 AM
Looking good Ramon, Looking at the first photo I was thinking the holes look a bit large and the heads may hang over the edge.

EKP to the rescue

https://www.ekpsupplies.com/one-size-smaller-nuts.html
Title: Re: 'WIDE A WAKE' a steam launch tale
Post by: Ramon on April 06, 2016, 01:56:41 PM
Hi guys - thanks for the input  :) Good to hear from all of you.

The holes are 7BA but do, I agree, look rather oversize. I had checked in my old EPK catalogue last night whilst in the workshop and it didn't list the smaller size nuts. I later found the ones on the site but could not get the checkout to work - whatever I phoned them today and all is now sorted - thanks Jason. In hindsight I think 8BA studs would have been more in keeping on the steam chests but we all know how '10-10 vision' hindsight is  ::) but then I would have had to have made those.

TuTu Zee? - what with my legs? - ha ha, ya got no chance there buddy  ;D

Regards - Ramon
Title: Re: 'WIDE A WAKE' a steam launch tale
Post by: b.lindsey on April 06, 2016, 02:20:46 PM
That is some amazing work Ramon. I am still following along even if quietly.

Bill
Title: Re: 'WIDE A WAKE' a steam launch tale
Post by: Ramon on April 07, 2016, 11:33:50 PM
Thanks Bill - glad you're still looking in  :)

Not much progress today but the manufacture of what was made might be of interest to some one.

I have applied several coats of etch primer to every thing but realised I needed to make the steam inlet flanges to use as 'masks' on the steam chests.

These can be fiddly little things to make but using the following method simplifies the process considerably - particularly in the work holding. (I don't know when it was, quite a long time ago now, but this simple aid was 'published' in the Norwich DSME newsletter - it was the first engineering matter I wrote about)
(https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-Ix_A0a4HnLI/Vwa6BuICcjI/AAAAAAAAOYI/u9BnYazMioUaGIcal6FM3JRuoyshDY6RgCCo/s800-Ic42/DSCF8882.JPG)

A couple of 'blanks' were turned from bronze bar with the holes drilled on the PCD. These can either be from solid as here or fabricated and silver soldered from two pieces in the interests of economy. A steel plate has a hole drilled in to accommodate the boss (that deep chamfer is relief for the radius on the part) and a secondary hole drilled in on the correct PCD to give the angle required.
(https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-XzWRp0XNQJQ/Vwa2vpU_NjI/AAAAAAAAOX8/wnRuOYJaz0MmZY21aWqNvgjmSpi9qIK0gCCo/s800-Ic42/DSCF8855.JPG)

The cutter depth stop is set above the plate, in this case 0.5mm
(https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-zxgABMK3FOM/Vwa2uZD3gSI/AAAAAAAAOX8/XOJNXVvZFIQAXubPXfZGfXZBS7yoyPOgACCo/s800-Ic42/DSCF8857.JPG)

With the boss locating in the larger hole and a quickly turned pin locating the smaller hole the waste material is milled to the depth stop (Apologies for the blurry pic - best of a poor lot  ::))
(https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-00PgjnjX3rg/Vwa2ueYCJSI/AAAAAAAAOX8/EvUeaEV5P-csaOCv4Us4_sRObZba3zcHwCCo/s800-Ic42/DSCF8863.JPG)

The holes are swapped and the second side done
(https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-IMtUIn2wWTw/Vwa2y-KCXyI/AAAAAAAAOX8/D4SyvySQ71E3iWRNv7TgKznumpG0nSvGQCCo/s800-Ic42/DSCF8868.JPG)

Then, by holding on the other side of the plate, (or by turning the plate around in the vise) the second angular cut is made to the same depth setting
(https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-HM0XFDIu2O0/Vwa2wTfVqlI/AAAAAAAAOX8/41TxMaG7kBcheEd7cEk6vEIDHTS_EwNGgCCo/s800-Ic42/DSCF8864.JPG)

Ready for final ops
(https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-gTS3mctsdb0/Vwa2zYpiU7I/AAAAAAAAOX8/2c5Z4FnZd0wwcfIJ0I0foOFq5TYU03EfwCCo/s800-Ic42/DSCF8869.JPG)

A filing button was turned and heat treated then used to scribe a line to which the majority was taken off on the linisher
(https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-c_Rt5hl_B5Y/Vwa2z1xtk2I/AAAAAAAAOX8/lwQdyqUJGN0k8hYMOGuchu6VrH3tuSHPgCCo/s800-Ic42/DSCF8872.JPG)

Then, after a few strokes of a file using the buttons and a quick deburr they were ready to fit
(https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-xnP014RGTK0/Vwa209DruHI/AAAAAAAAOX8/pPcr2x256l82LFwNgQmGgVq3smryE-iNwCCo/s800-Ic42/DSCF8878.JPG)

Hope this is of use to someone - it certainly makes short work of the little beggars

Sue has a long weekend and has plans - the garden folks, the garden  ::) - looks like not a lot will be done till next week then

Regards - Ramon
Title: Re: 'WIDE A WAKE' a steam launch tale
Post by: Don1966 on April 08, 2016, 12:06:54 AM
Ramon beautiful work as your usual self and a real good tip to file away for future use. Those come out great and I can see that making then that way makes short work of it......... :ThumbsUp:

 :popcorn:
Don  ;D
Title: Re: 'WIDE A WAKE' a steam launch tale
Post by: zeeprogrammer on April 08, 2016, 12:21:42 AM
TuTu Zee? - what with my legs? - ha ha, ya got no chance there buddy  ;D

Believe me...with a tu-tu you needn't worry about legs.
People don't seem to get it...the tu-tu is the distraction from my less desirable attractions.  :Lol:

Really glad to see how you made those flanges. I'd been wondering about that for an engine I'm thinking about doing.
Title: Re: 'WIDE A WAKE' a steam launch tale
Post by: Tennessee Whiskey on April 08, 2016, 12:32:10 AM
Another great example of how a bit of extra time spent making a jig or fixture can turn a daunting part into a manageable one  :cheers:.

Cletus
Title: Re: 'WIDE A WAKE' a steam launch tale
Post by: Steamer5 on April 08, 2016, 02:04:10 AM
Hi Ramon,
 She's coming along nicely! Thanks for the tip on flange making, filing that one away!

Cheer Kerrin
Title: Re: 'WIDE A WAKE' a steam launch tale
Post by: derekwarner on April 08, 2016, 02:54:00 AM
Ramon......I am a fan of o-ring sealed joints [over gaskets] in model engineering ......[just like the real scale hydraulic systems]

However am a little confused  :facepalm:......

I see you are spigoting o-ring cavities into the valve block faces to suit the 2 bolt SAE oval flanges which  have the compression male spigot .....

However, with the port block tapping's I assume you will use a Loctite type product to ensure the 4 bolt hole alignment in the flanges is square.....but in the second image I see one screwed flange complete with the o-ring groove, however a non screwed [opposite 1/2] solder tube insert flange also with the o-ring groove

I have attempted to observe full scale industry conventions in scale of having flat faces on fixed equipment [valve blocks or manifolds etc] and the o-ring flange on the removable or replaceable component [pipe etc]....my flanges here are for 1/8" & 5/32" OD tube with M2 hex head bolts & nuts

Derek
Title: Re: 'WIDE A WAKE' a steam launch tale
Post by: Jasonb on April 08, 2016, 07:59:25 AM
Looks like the groove is approx half depth in each flange which saves having to go full depth in one flange and making it weaker. I doubt industry has the O ring taking up half or more of the flanges thickness.

Those recesses in teh valve chest sides look like they are for location as the spigots on the flange look to be about the same length so no room for rings.

Looking good Ramon
Title: Re: 'WIDE A WAKE' a steam launch tale
Post by: 10KPete on April 08, 2016, 08:19:34 AM
I'm still watching this built-up cylinder with great interest. I'm eagerly awaiting the results of it running a few times under steam to see how it holds up. I don't have any serious doubts, though. :popcorn:

I just went back through the last few pages looking for how you got the texture on the 'casting'. Nothing. So?????

That flange profiling fixture is just the ticket. And I can see the same approach for other items as well. :ThumbsUp:

In over 50 years of O-ring experience, in vacuum systems to oil refineries, I've never seen a groove in both flanges for one seal element. Always one flange grooved, one flange blank.

Not sayin' it won't work, just never seen it done that way! :headscratch:

Pete
Title: Re: 'WIDE A WAKE' a steam launch tale
Post by: Ramon on April 08, 2016, 08:44:32 AM
Hi guys - a quick one as I'm about to get to grips with an overhanging oak tree and have a friend coming for an inspection of progress on the engine this afternoon.

Thanks as always for your interest - I'll get back as soon as I can later today to explain and answer but in the meantime no use of O rings is intended  ;)

See you later - Ramon
Title: Re: 'WIDE A WAKE' a steam launch tale
Post by: 10KPete on April 08, 2016, 08:50:17 AM

 ...........no use of O rings is intended  ;)

See you later - Ramon

Aahh! Can't wait to see what you have in store!  :thinking:

Pete
Title: Re: 'WIDE A WAKE' a steam launch tale
Post by: Johnb on April 08, 2016, 09:59:15 PM
Good to see this on the go. Thanks Ramon
Title: Re: 'WIDE A WAKE' a steam launch tale
Post by: Ramon on April 08, 2016, 11:03:01 PM
Hi guys sorry for the delay but it's been a long day.

Derek once again I am pleased to have your input but I confess my thinking is not on the same lines. Though I've used them here and there over the years I would say I'm not an 'O' ring devotee. No specific reason, will happily fit them when required, but if not usually try to do without them.

It is as Jason surmises - in part - as the spigots on the two bolt flanges are just for location. There's approximately a 0.1mm gap when the flanges are up tight.

The 'O' ring grooves in the exhaust flanges however are, I'm afraid, just grooves put in with a 45 degree pointed tool.

I will fit these joints using a thin layer of silicone pipe sealant which will fill the voids to provide an extra barrier. I have used this kind of joint in the past with total success albeit running on 40 psi non superheated steam. That said Derek I do appreciate your experience and knowledge and value your input so please don't think I'm being dismissive. I'll have to see how they pan out.

I've worn myself out today but had some fun doing some physical work for a change - well sort of  :-[ Some may recall when I cut the ribs for the boat I caught my middle finger in the circular saw - well today I crushed the tip of the same finger between a fixed branch and a sawn off one swinging on a rope. Oh whoopee Dee  :o Right now it's beginning the 'night time throb' bit   ;D

Thanks for all the comments guys - hope that puts your mind at rest Pete  ;) and it's good to see you still keeping tabs on events Whiskey and you too John B

Back soon once I can get back onto it

Regards - Ramon

Title: Re: 'WIDE A WAKE' a steam launch tale
Post by: derekwarner on April 09, 2016, 04:56:01 AM
Thanks Ramon...I think I am on the same page as 10KPete as also with a lifetime in hydraulic fluid engineering ......

Sealing industrial hydraulic fluid systems commonly pulsating between 250 Bar to 500 Bar is a totally different challenge to sealing steam at ~~3 Bar.......having said this the same tube/flange work principals apply as to life size NB pipe/flange construction

Bolt the two flanges hard up together with at least 2 bolts on the diagonal ....complete the socket tube soldering work, strip, clean [I actually boil short tube spools after flange soldering] then ready for assembly ......an oil soaked paper gasket from 0.008" paper or a thin smear of Hylomer sealant, reassembly with the same care as full scale flanges & all will be well

All of the flanges I use for 1/8" & 5/32" OD tube are from Winfried Niggle in Germany & these have 4 ID x 1.5 section [6-035] Viton O-rings

Did you manage to save some of the oak timber for seasoning & aging?  :naughty:

As always, your machining & construction leave me rather speechless...... Derek  :cheers:


Title: Re: 'WIDE A WAKE' a steam launch tale
Post by: Ramon on April 09, 2016, 01:37:30 PM
Thanks Derek - all round  ;) I have used oil soaked paper before on steam chest/cylinder covers and for gaskets on my I/C engines but not on pipe connections. I have just bought some Hylomar sealant too so will follow your advice

Just been sailing but the weather was abysmal so we all decided to pack up early.

10KPete  - my apologies - I overlooked your question on the cast effect. It was produced by using a couple of different carbide rotary burrs in a Proxon hand power tool. I just let the burr, running at about 6-8000 rpm bounce across the surface as opposed to trying to remove metal. I'll take a pic of what I used later for you.


Regards for now - Ramon


Title: Re: 'WIDE A WAKE' a steam launch tale
Post by: crueby on April 09, 2016, 02:28:40 PM
10KPete  - my apologies - I overlooked your question on the cast effect. It was produced by using a couple of different carbide rotary burrs in a Proxon hand power tool. I just let the burr, running at about 6-8000 rpm bounce across the surface as opposed to trying to remove metal. I'll take a pic of what I used later for you.

Neat trick, I'll have to give that a try - I have experimented with sandblasting, but that just gave a dull look. Thanks!
Title: Re: 'WIDE A WAKE' a steam launch tale
Post by: 10KPete on April 09, 2016, 05:56:13 PM

10KPete  - my apologies - I overlooked your question on the cast effect. It was produced by using a couple of different carbide rotary burrs in a Proxon hand power tool. I just let the burr, running at about 6-8000 rpm bounce across the surface as opposed to trying to remove metal. I'll take a pic of what I used later for you.


Regards for now - Ramon

Ramon, no worries! I never would have guessed at that treatment. Clever!

I like the idea of the two little grooves facing each other with the molded-in-place seal. Sometimes a thin 'gasket' will leak
from a surface defect, but the little seal ring will put a stop to that. Should make a robust seal!

I love the work you're doing. Keep it coming!

Pete
Title: Re: 'WIDE A WAKE' a steam launch tale
Post by: Ramon on April 09, 2016, 08:15:06 PM
Pete, Chris - glad that's of use. It's quite easy to do and fairly quick on CI not quite so on steel. On 'brass' of course it's a doddle.

Just as a matter of interest you can get an even more defined effect by using an engraver
(https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-QHEj1VpQs4o/TtgGzOtOC3I/AAAAAAAALc4/6jWQjpKpHlkQMbIvxwFgr39iioFHTZ_BwCCo/s800-Ic42/DSCN3892.JPG)

This was the eccentric strap from the Waller engine. The central steel part is just protection
(https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-Q3DpAo0VqEM/TtgG1NePiKI/AAAAAAAALFI/uknQdGahil8gNTZBu6HFhbz2GUL-_IWwgCCo/s800-Ic42/DSCN3893.JPG)

As finished - the bright shine can be reduced by a thin layer of brown enamel paint well thinned to a water like consistency
(https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-8h1NkKY4X9c/TtgG4fnB-mI/AAAAAAAALdY/cn9O6uM4c6MFlYeEhgncf0aiAdO_WmrrACCo/s800-Ic42/DSCN3898.JPG)

As here on the Double Diagonal
(https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-jAEsWZKfTI8/UFg_EK48cHI/AAAAAAAAKlY/LJ269OC_c9w--FUeU0_f1z-b49btcMvRgCCo/s800-Ic42/DSCF1269.JPG)

The idea is not new nor mine. I was first told about it by an exhibitor at an ME Exhibition. A superb model engineer and very nice person indeed to converse with I think his name was Ron Jervis - he made some exceptional steam powered vehicles/carriages. I noticed this effect on a beam engine driven sugar mill he had made and asked him about it. I believe I read somewhere he lived to be a centenarian and was modelling almost to the end.

The garden is far to wet to do anything on tomorrow   ::) aw dammit it's in the warm again I guess ;) ;) Life can be so difficult at times you know  :D

Regards - Ramon
Title: Re: 'WIDE A WAKE' a steam launch tale
Post by: zeeprogrammer on April 09, 2016, 08:24:18 PM
Neat idea! Thanks for posting that.
Title: Re: 'WIDE A WAKE' a steam launch tale
Post by: Tennessee Whiskey on April 09, 2016, 10:51:45 PM
Every illusionist has tricks of the trade  :ThumbsUp: :ThumbsUp:.. Great job Tug   :cheers:

Cletus
Title: Re: 'WIDE A WAKE' a steam launch tale
Post by: 10KPete on April 09, 2016, 11:37:03 PM
Outstanding technique! Thank you for bringing that to our attention.  :ThumbsUp: :praise2:

 :cheers:
Pete
Title: Re: 'WIDE A WAKE' a steam launch tale
Post by: crueby on April 10, 2016, 02:38:23 AM
Just tried your texturing technique on some brass and steel scraps, using my proxxon rotary tool and a small ball end bur - looks fantastic! With a medium speed and a tapping motion, it gives a great random pattern. Also tried a little wash of thinned paint like you suggest, gives it a nice depth.

Thanks for the great tips!!   :praise2:
Title: Re: 'WIDE A WAKE' a steam launch tale
Post by: zeeprogrammer on April 10, 2016, 03:03:51 AM
Just tried your texturing technique on some brass and steel scraps, using my proxxon rotary tool and a small ball end bur - looks fantastic! With a medium speed and a tapping motion, it gives a great random pattern. Also tried a little wash of thinned paint like you suggest, gives it a nice depth.

Thanks for the great tips!!   :praise2:

Pics? Hey Dave! Aren't you asking too.?
Title: Re: 'WIDE A WAKE' a steam launch tale
Post by: crueby on April 10, 2016, 03:05:49 AM
Just tried your texturing technique on some brass and steel scraps, using my proxxon rotary tool and a small ball end bur - looks fantastic! With a medium speed and a tapping motion, it gives a great random pattern. Also tried a little wash of thinned paint like you suggest, gives it a nice depth.

Thanks for the great tips!!   :praise2:

Pics? Hey Dave! Aren't you asking too.?
Too busy eating hot chocolate chip cookies...

Besides, I just did a small sample, nothing like his great looking parts!
Title: Re: 'WIDE A WAKE' a steam launch tale
Post by: Flyboy Jim on April 10, 2016, 03:23:38 AM
Pete, Chris - glad that's of use. It's quite easy to do and fairly quick on CI not quite so on steel. On 'brass' of course it's a doddle.

Just as a matter of interest you can get an even more defined effect by using an engraver

This was the eccentric strap from the Waller engine. The central steel part is just protection

As finished - the bright shine can be reduced by a thin layer of brown enamel paint well thinned to a water like consistency

As here on the Double Diagonal

The idea is not new nor mine. I was first told about it by an exhibitor at an ME Exhibition. A superb model engineer and very nice person indeed to converse with I think his name was Ron Jervis - he made some exceptional steam powered vehicles/carriages. I noticed this effect on a beam engine driven sugar mill he had made and asked him about it. I believe I read somewhere he lived to be a centenarian and was modelling almost to the end.

The garden is far to wet to do anything on tomorrow   ::) aw dammit it's in the warm again I guess ;) ;) Life can be so difficult at times you know  :D

Regards - Ramon

I really like that! Looks like more tools in my future!  :whoohoo: And a new skill (of many) to work on.

As a newcomer to all this I'm going to have to live to be a Centenarian in order to make a dent in all there is to learn!  :facepalm:

Jim
Title: Re: 'WIDE A WAKE' a steam launch tale
Post by: Ramon on April 10, 2016, 08:58:45 AM
Jim - I know exactly what you mean but regrettably in the last few weeks I have lost two good modelling friends to the dreaded Big C that serves only too well to remind that what's left is finite.

I just make the best of what I have and try not to look too far ahead these days - that said I was once told by a doctor on my yearly diving medical and I quote - "You are a very fit man Mr Wilson, you'll live to be 99" Yes really! I remember saying that I would hold him to that  ;D Of course I was in my thirties at the time  ::) Living to that age is one thing but being able to do something practical with the time is of course another matter.

I have many things I would like to do but have become very realistic in knowing that most are unlikely to be achieved  :-\

Regards - Ramon
Title: Re: 'WIDE A WAKE' a steam launch tale
Post by: Flyboy Jim on April 10, 2016, 02:20:21 PM
Jim - I know exactly what you mean but regrettably in the last few weeks I have lost two good modelling friends to the dreaded Big C that serves only too well to remind that what's left is finite.

I just make the best of what I have and try not to look too far ahead these days - that said I was once told by a doctor on my yearly diving medical and I quote - "You are a very fit man Mr Wilson, you'll live to be 99" Yes really! I remember saying that I would hold him to that  ;D Of course I was in my thirties at the time  ::) Living to that age is one thing but being able to do something practical with the time is of course another matter.

I have many things I would like to do but have become very realistic in knowing that most are unlikely to be achieved  :-\

Regards - Ramon

Ramon, I remember a fellow (Ned) in our motorcycle group that was in his eighties. He would show up at one of our campouts with a new Harley Davidson motorcycle. While everyone was checking it out he would make the statement: "Yep.......... this is my last new Harley that I'm ever going to have"! This happened at least three times that I can remember! Maybe we can all be like Ned!  :)

Jim

Title: Re: 'WIDE A WAKE' a steam launch tale
Post by: Dave Otto on April 11, 2016, 02:08:29 AM
Just tried your texturing technique on some brass and steel scraps, using my proxxon rotary tool and a small ball end bur - looks fantastic! With a medium speed and a tapping motion, it gives a great random pattern. Also tried a little wash of thinned paint like you suggest, gives it a nice depth.

Thanks for the great tips!!   :praise2:

Pics? Hey Dave! Aren't you asking too.?

What can I say; I'm trying to catch up on the last couple days of posts. Seems like every spring I have lots of plans and then I get slammed with work. Pictures? yes they would be nice; anything to help the rest of us learn.

Dave
Title: Re: 'WIDE A WAKE' a steam launch tale
Post by: crueby on April 11, 2016, 02:16:05 AM
Just tried your texturing technique on some brass and steel scraps, using my proxxon rotary tool and a small ball end bur - looks fantastic! With a medium speed and a tapping motion, it gives a great random pattern. Also tried a little wash of thinned paint like you suggest, gives it a nice depth.

Thanks for the great tips!!   :praise2:

Pics? Hey Dave! Aren't you asking too.?

What can I say; I'm trying to catch up on the last couple days of posts. Seems like every spring I have lots of plans and then I get slammed with work. Pictures? yes they would be nice; anything to help the rest of us learn.

Dave
Nothing I have would show as much as what Ramon has already kindly shared in his earlier posts. When I get to that stage on my corliss thread I'll put up pics as I attempt to do the same technique, over on that thread - lets give Ramon his build thread back!
Title: Re: 'WIDE A WAKE' a steam launch tale
Post by: Ramon on April 11, 2016, 09:33:26 PM
Just tried your texturing technique on some brass and steel scraps,...............

Glad to hear someone gained something Chris  :ThumbsUp: and Jim - yes indeed, that's what we all hope eh  ;)

The top end nears completion. Before those steam chests could get a coat of primer the lay shaft brackets needed making.

I milled the Tee section from steel long enough for the two brackets and drilled/reamed for the bushes from each end then the length was cut in two. The holes had some small cuts put in with a needle file to allow the solder to flow through and the bushes, turned from bronze bar, were then silver soldered into place. I felt I had drawn the Tee a bit on the heavy side so reduced the thickness of the web somewhat to be look more in keeping as well as giving more room for the nuts  ;)
(https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-33F1DDv9n1o/Vwv1bJmJClI/AAAAAAAAOYw/X82Vu-aP2407mO2kUVrP_VKFHQZHYKt5wCCo/s800-Ic42/DSCF8887.JPG)

The waste was cut away and the parts set up by eye and milled to a scribed line before filing to shape
(https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-1ixnAaTXlwE/Vwv1bsUahvI/AAAAAAAAOZQ/EOMPxe8GsQMrBccmHvKlIv1mO68p3wKugCCo/s800-Ic42/DSCF8890.JPG)

A quick fettle with the rotary burr.....
(https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-8wL9wzus41s/Vwv1blJnhTI/AAAAAAAAOZQ/BTGu6JAc-RgJ0hEZoHc94NyIWfgCmDZdACCo/s800-Ic42/DSCF8895.JPG)

And they could be attached for a 'dry run' to see how things line up
(https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-ZHTPDQ06NWE/Vwv1d1SWDrI/AAAAAAAAOZQ/_3qjRc4K62kf0Qh052O3lwTeB0MvATg5gCCo/s800-Ic42/DSCF8898.JPG)
 
With a very small amount of lapping in situ it all lined up more or less ok and the shaft fitted smoothly with no tight spots.
(https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-avSHQnb9Sh8/Vwv1foT_7HI/AAAAAAAAOZQ/ydUUHrCYEdUPf7hXJ6h5qvVD9lLrvHxigCCo/s800-Ic42/DSCF8902.JPG)

So at last every thing has a coat of etch primer. As mentioned previously some parts are used as 'masks' and will have the paint removed by washing in cellulose thinner.
(https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-SlZmK68yzJI/Vwv1fs56G4I/AAAAAAAAOZQ/Q8anCMy7PWcZyXiBL8p7iYMfFmNDt6HkwCCo/s800-Ic42/DSCF8915.JPG)

I'll leave that a good 24 hours before applying the top coats (same grey as the water tanks, more or less the same colour as the primer) then the bottom end can be tackled.

Thanks for looking in

Regards - Ramon
Title: Re: 'WIDE A WAKE' a steam launch tale
Post by: zeeprogrammer on April 11, 2016, 10:21:59 PM
Glad to hear someone gained something

Always something to learn from you.

Wow...nice!
Title: Re: 'WIDE A WAKE' a steam launch tale
Post by: Don1966 on April 11, 2016, 10:27:14 PM
I am still getting some fabrication ideas just watching you progress Ramon. Always a treat to tune in on your builds.  :ThumbsUp:

 :wine1:
Don
Title: Re: 'WIDE A WAKE' a steam launch tale
Post by: Ramon on April 13, 2016, 10:55:28 PM
Hi Guys - thanks for looking in  :)

Given the interest in the last little fixture here are a few pics of the latest parts - the lay shaft levers - being made. Another 'fiddly' part particularly when holding but another simple sacrificial fixture improves things no end and is well worth the small amount of extra work involved and certainly makes things much easier.

Blanks were prepped for the six parts and the holes drilled in the mill. The centre of the blank was milled out to thickness plus 0.2mm. The material, an offcut from a steel used at work, is a Swedish steel called UHB11. It has very little, if any, locked in stress and machines nicely albeit the swarf is extremely sharp.
(https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-DABZ5YnUhbI/Vw6ZJspWNxI/AAAAAAAAOaU/KIjNEVrG8L045V8099bZGaYjJ-oDNL08gCCo/s800-Ic42/DSCF8918.JPG)

This should give a good idea of just how little it moves when machined - if this was CRS it would be like a banana
(https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-oO_dR1Pz9lY/Vw6ZKAzpv-I/AAAAAAAAOaU/h1fqpPYiu609ViokVagy0EDRZkv0NTF2wCCo/s800-Ic42/DSCF8924.JPG)

Next up was to turn a secondary face plate. The small boss in the centre is removable with a 3mm tapped hole behind
(https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-Kal3-kwbz50/Vw6ZMQfscdI/AAAAAAAAOac/DflBya42_S0U3dEuiMY0z8NfzkVM2sHJwCCo/s800-Ic42/DSCF8932.JPG)

With the part located on the boss and held with a 3mm cap head and a 5mm button head as a clamp the bosses were turned to finish diameter and the arm reduced to thickness
(https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-hN5cLFJP2Eg/Vw6ZKI-JGKI/AAAAAAAAOaU/WVg5rZp0hRgLcH0fOhzoX_A7dWTP2mewACCo/s800-Ic42/DSCF8928.JPG)

With all the bosses turned another small fixture was made to hold the parts for milling the tapers. The part was located at the correct angle using a drill shank as a pin through the small hole to align with another in the plate below
(https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-SxKJaXA6gOI/Vw6ZN07jZoI/AAAAAAAAOac/4nyqF0ZR4vI8GlnJchMmljWLJX6zZWrDgCCo/s800-Ic42/DSCF8933.JPG)

The rudimentary arms as milled
(https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-KqZI4bTPon0/Vw6ZNwVdQCI/AAAAAAAAOac/Lm945gG6hCwvAhyTsAcdmITpH-8PKk8OgCCo/s800-Ic42/DSCF8940.JPG)

Using the same fixture located on the R/T the radius was milled on the ends.
(https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-O8M2laY7V0k/Vw6ZQKAfvGI/AAAAAAAAOac/4Gzry8RhFcEpiqknbtDsgb6cpskpqkcuQCCo/s800-Ic42/DSCF8943.JPG)

Then the small ends had their radii filed on using filing buttons
(https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-6bXE_wXSEuA/Vw6ZRQrSZzI/AAAAAAAAOac/P48kHrEPo2ASdAuX_cubrTgtqzouQo4aQCCo/s800-Ic42/DSCF8947.JPG)

The fixture was also pressed into further use to hold whilst draw filing the machining marks out .....
(https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-tfXV_yDI5V0/Vw6ZTIn4pnI/AAAAAAAAOac/B_a9W-Pr97QHWllNzta0gUXMKTk49ty1QCCo/s800-Ic42/DSCF8949.JPG)

(https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-zuSEc4uFyIk/Vw6ZTVrHkhI/AAAAAAAAOac/AOC8F37_BHEyZmt8_UYs0mSvgYpnSMa4QCCo/s800-Ic42/DSCF8951.JPG)

...before the final op on a small expanding mandrel to turn the boss to width
(https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-fn4kTT6xzBk/Vw62-CHiM9I/AAAAAAAAObA/op-XtbRiql8bXnwxXP4gqrFVsoX2JNEOQCCo/s800-Ic42/DSCF8957.JPG)

The six as initially finished. They just need a bit more fettling before fitting to the layshaft , the inner four with Loctite and pinned and the outer two removable with taper pins. I've made them a mil wider than drawn to give the Loctite a bit more area to bond
(https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-Id9UQVjMXIQ/Vw62-PLnD5I/AAAAAAAAObA/39Zc7xETzWMGTXXIglM20ioCXKPkC0BlwCCo/s800-Ic42/DSCF8964.JPG)

Well that's another few bits more or less finished, hope this simple technique is useful for someone doing anything similar. The paint is dry so next session sees getting the crank back in.

Regards - Ramon





Title: Re: 'WIDE A WAKE' a steam launch tale
Post by: Don1966 on April 13, 2016, 11:00:16 PM
Always a pleasure to see more educational progress my friend and they look a treat......... :ThumbsUp:

Don  :wine1:
Title: Re: 'WIDE A WAKE' a steam launch tale
Post by: crueby on April 13, 2016, 11:12:51 PM
Those came out great!   :popcorn:
Title: Re: 'WIDE A WAKE' a steam launch tale
Post by: Dave Otto on April 14, 2016, 01:33:13 AM
Nicely done Ramon,

Always enjoyable seeing how you work through things.

Dave
Title: Re: 'WIDE A WAKE' a steam launch tale
Post by: Ramon on April 14, 2016, 10:37:13 PM
Hi Don, Chris, Dave, (nice to see you still looking in Dave)

Small update for today -

I removed the masking from the bolting areas, smoothed the raised edges of the paint with a fine file then sprayed a fine mist coat over the bolting faces. This way there is very little paint between mating surfaces but the surrounding areas that are exposed after bolting the bearings and standards in place blend in, hopefully without further touch up
(https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-4-ZsUP-TGm4/Vw_l5onPSSI/AAAAAAAAOb0/M6MJ_mqXoyk2HM8VAni64wy2YigakJQ9gCCo/s800-Ic42/DSCF8975.JPG)

The crank was set up on the lathe - held at one end in a collet it ran extremely true at the other. Whoever built this engine certainly made a very good job of it machining wise - it was just painted so dreadfully  :-\ The shaft was reduced and tapped to take the worm for the pump drive and any slight burrs from the eccentric grub screws smoothed. The bearings themselves were good so other than a clean up with a bit of Garryflex block no work was required though three small oil cups were turned to improve the countersunk holes previously acting as oilers.
(https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-u15fPbS8MC0/Vw_l5WINgxI/AAAAAAAAObw/h2fcHcqWXUgF9Zm9IO8RqWHknDrI4YWcQCCo/s800-Ic42/DSCF8981.JPG)

Having taken a good look at the big ends the fit is actually quite reasonable on the crank pins despite my original impression. There is no movement radially but they do rock slightly for and aft. I'm happy to use the big end portions then so will have a go to make new rods from steel and began to rough those out this afternoon. Before milling the blanks were set up on an angle plate and had centres put in each end ready for the turning ops to come.
(https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-yAdC49Z_qR4/Vw_l5mGdDrI/AAAAAAAAOcQ/m9uqx49G_aI03xXUmNh08_m5bvSoFgUzQCCo/s800-Ic42/DSCF8978.JPG)

Not quite as much done as hoped today but then I had a very pleasant interlude this afternoon when my friend Phil brought his friend Eric round to see the engine. Eric was a fitter and turner on the shipyard where and when I began my working life as an apprentice welder so as you can imagine there was a bit of shipyard nostalgia - only a bit mind  ;)

Regards for now - Ramon

Title: Re: 'WIDE A WAKE' a steam launch tale
Post by: joe d on April 14, 2016, 11:21:23 PM
Ramon

Still following quietly along, glad to see you back at this.

Looking forward to to the video of the "First Cruise"

Joe
Title: Re: 'WIDE A WAKE' a steam launch tale
Post by: K.B.C on April 14, 2016, 11:44:45 PM
Hi Ramon,
Can you tell me where you get the etch primer from ? I have never been able to find a suitable primer.
Great job you are doing here, just a few questions.

If I may ask, how are you going to get the worm drive onto the main shaft after you have the eccentrics on, will there be enough room for the worm to be fitted ?
All the D10's that I have built have been mainly to Stuarts drawing and the pump end of the shaft is shown as being drilled 3/16" x 7/16" deep to take the worm shaft and allows the shaft to be extended to be held in the outer bearing.
I make the extension shaft from a piece of 3/16" stainless and as I can't cut my own worm and wheel I have to buy them from H.P.C. gears.as you can see from the last pic there isn't much room on the mainshaft after the eccentrics are fitted.

When you have made the blanks for the conrod to fit onto the Gunmetal bearings the Cross head eye should be a 90deg to the bearings, have you enough metal to complete the eye ?

Hope that the pics explain my meaning.

George





Title: Re: 'WIDE A WAKE' a steam launch tale
Post by: K.B.C on April 15, 2016, 09:29:30 AM
Hi Ramon,

 Just had a thought this morning , are you going to drive the pump by worm and wheel , or are you goint drive the pump via an eccentric on the main shaft ?

George.
Title: Re: 'WIDE A WAKE' a steam launch tale
Post by: Ramon on April 15, 2016, 12:15:02 PM
Hello Joe - thanks for your interest - it's always nice to hear that someone is following along. It will be a while before the launch but hopefully if things work out right it should be this summer.

George, my thanks as always for your continued interest. Re the con-rods when I read your post I wasn't sure what you were referring to at first. A quick look at the pic soon put my mind straight however  :( At first I hoped it might be an optical illusion but then a quick visit to the workshop put things in perspective  :-[  I realised then that when I selected the material I had the dimension of 8mm in my head - that of the diameter of the boss and not the width across  them  ::)   Agh! we've all been there 

I've taken a good look at it and think I will press on with what I have - the material is just over 10mm wide - as I think, if necessary, I should be able to solder some pads on the outside to increase the width. I could also decrease the width of the slot slightly as I can make new cross heads to fit. Call them the new slim line D10 rods  ;)

With regards to the pump drive my intention is to make a wheel and worm. I have never done it before but intend trying to make the wheel using a 3/8 whit tap as a hob - this will very much be a 'suck it and see op' first and if successful will make the worm to match - is the HPC worm single or multiple start? as I have been thinking that it may run too slow on a single start. The intention is for the worm to be held on the shaft with a 4 ba caphead bolt. If this doesn't work out as well as hoped I will re-machine the shaft to take an insert on which to mount an HPC worm as you have done. Just in case do you have the HPC part no's required?

I still have the pics of your pump set up so will copy them in the most part, if not all.

Thanks again - I don't know how much further I would have gone before the penny dropped but at least I'm setting off now with the mistake firmly in mind  ;)

Hope this finds you well and improving

Kind regards - Ramon



Title: Re: 'WIDE A WAKE' a steam launch tale
Post by: Jasonb on April 15, 2016, 12:24:37 PM
George, regarding etch primer for ease of use I use ACID-8 made by U-Pol which comes in a spray can. Available from Halfords or the Net. If I'm airbrushing then I will tend to use the one from Precision Paints.

Ramon, you could try a bit of heating and twisting to get those conrod blanks back into a usable shape.

Could the eccentric and worm be made as one or the worm soldered onto teh eccentric to keep the length down and they could share the same grub screw so only one boss needed
Title: Re: 'WIDE A WAKE' a steam launch tale
Post by: Ramon on April 15, 2016, 01:06:28 PM
Hi again - George I overlooked your question  ::).

This is what I have used on the water tanks in the wide a wake and for the engine parts. I got it from my local car accessory shop. Jason's suggestion will be much the same I guess.
(https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-jYKdVvj29b4/VxDWSRbHBRI/AAAAAAAAOcg/Ko9jxPCUsXAJi3gyia6qna5KyQStgK1CACCo/s800-Ic42/DSCF8987.JPG)

I can't say anything about it other than it went on well and evenly. How durable it is and how well it etches to brass remains to be seen.

Jason there will be two eccentrics each end. Stuarts show them as separate with a 1/16 hole drilled in each I guess to take a pin such to put them 120 degrees to each other. Only one has a boss with the grub screw in. I'm thinking at the moment to make each separate without a boss and have a hole in the straps to access the socket grub screws to allow a degree of independence however your thought that the worm and one could be soldered together is worth investigating further - nice one  ;)

I'm not quite sure quite what you are meaning about heating and twisting ? Soldering two thin pads toward the end of machining seems a much less stressful approach unless I'm missing something  :-\

Regards - Ramon

Title: Re: 'WIDE A WAKE' a steam launch tale
Post by: Jasonb on April 15, 2016, 01:27:09 PM
I was thinking of holding it vertically in a vice, heating the main shaft to red heat and then giving the top a quater turn which looks like it should then give you the right width metal at 90deg to the bearing end. Bit like a blacksmith puts a twist in a poker handle. I seem to recall seing it done for two throw crankshafts cut from flat plate and then twisted to set the throws at 90deg.

Another soldering option would be to cut a semicircle out of the end and then solder in a wider round bar, this could then be drilled/reamed and the ends machined back to the required width. Something along these lines.

(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v156/jasonballamy/Engineering/Tidman%20Organ%20Engine/Tid41_zpsycg7fzrd.jpg)

(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v156/jasonballamy/Engineering/Tidman%20Organ%20Engine/Tid169_zpsrjoxg3uf.jpg)

(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v156/jasonballamy/Engineering/Tidman%20Organ%20Engine/Tid170_zpsznhpu2ss.jpg)

J
Title: Re: 'WIDE A WAKE' a steam launch tale
Post by: Ramon on April 15, 2016, 08:34:42 PM
Thanks Jason - but I think that sounds a bit too 'hot to handle'  ;)

I like the idea you show with the soldered on bosses though - however I have just milled the slot out to 6mm and am thinking that the 'missing' volume can be taken up with either pads soldered on the outer faces as first thought or possibly exchanging the cross head pin from the original to one with a head and a nut that will act as pseudo ( :o) bosses.

Very little else done today I'm afraid. I realised earlier that I've had the misfortune to lose my access to my AutoCAD files resulting in a bloody big gulp indeed  :( - whatever, after some delving I have down loaded Draft Sight and it appears I can access them through that - Phew.

Thanks for the input - always welcome  :)

Regards - Ramon
Title: Re: 'WIDE A WAKE' a steam launch tale
Post by: K.B.C on April 16, 2016, 12:50:13 PM
Hello Joe - thanks for your interest - it's always nice to hear that someone is following along. It will be a while before the launch but hopefully if things work out right it should be this summer.

George, my thanks as always for your continued interest. Re the con-rods when I read your post I wasn't sure what you were referring to at first. A quick look at the pic soon put my mind straight however  :( At first I hoped it might be an optical illusion but then a quick visit to the workshop put things in perspective  :-[  I realised then that when I selected the material I had the dimension of 8mm in my head - that of the diameter of the boss and not the width across the them  ::)   Agh! we've all been there 

I've taken a good look at it and think I will press on with what I have - the material is just over 10mm wide - as I think, if necessary, I should be able to solder some pads on the outside to increase the width. I could also decrease the width of the slot slightly as I can make new cross heads to fit. Call them the new slim line D10 rods  ;)

With regards to the pump drive my intention is to make a wheel and worm. I have never done it before but intend trying to make the wheel using a 3/8 whit tap as a hob - this will very much be a 'suck it and see op' first and if successful will make the worm to match - is the HPC worm single or multiple start? as I have been thinking that it may run too slow on a single start. The intention is for the worm to be held on the shaft with a 4 ba caphead bolt. If this doesn't work out as well as hoped I will re-machine the shaft to take an insert on which to mount an HPC worm as you have done. Just in case do you have the HPC part no's required?

I still have the pics of your pump set up so will copy them in the most part, if not all.

Thanks again - I don't know how much further I would have gone before the penny dropped but at least I'm setting off now with the mistake firmly in mind  ;)

Hope this finds you well and improving

Kind regards - Ramon

Ramon,
 The only reason that I questioned your conrod blanks was that I made the same mistake when doing the mconrods on a Launch engine, see pic showing cross head eye 90deg out, fortunately I discovered this before I had both made.

I can't agree with your suggestion on making the worm and wheel drive.

As using a Whit bolt it's only a single start and when your engine is reving it willpump too much water into your boiler.
Stuarts worm and wheel ar Helical and the small wheel is a 10 start and the big wheel is 50 t to give 5:1 ratio.

I have included a pic of the Stuart gear set up. and a pic of the H.P.C. gear set up

I always try for a ratio of 4: 1 or 6:1  and I buy my worm and wheel from H.P.C. gears . ( www.hpcgears.com ) they have a free catalouge which is well worth having.

The worm is a  48 D.P.  4 start No W48-4 and the wheel is No  M48-20 giving me 5: 1 ratio, both items have 3/16" bore, this is just right for my D10 in a tug with a 4.75" dia x 5" between end plates Scotch Marine boiler.

If you do as suggesteted by bolting the worm to the main shaft you will have no outer bearing support on the 3/16" dia worm shaft and I think that it woild not run true enough to drive the wheel with the load on the pump, I could be way out but to me it's not good practice.

First pic is the Duff Conrod.
Second pic is the Stuart gears
Third pic is the H.P.C. gears which I think is much neater, and the disc on the end of the cross shaft is the drive for the pump, I like to make it large enough to have various pitched holes to be able to adjust the pump stroke.

You will need to make bearing blocks and bearins to support the cross shaft and the outer end of the worm shaft.
Hope this helps.
 George.

Jason, thanks for the info on the Etch primer.
Title: Re: 'WIDE A WAKE' a steam launch tale
Post by: steamer on April 16, 2016, 01:20:29 PM
Hmmm....I think if it's a multi start worm, the lead is greater than a single start worm.....so a double start with twice the lead would be half the ratio.....

What am I missing here?

Dave
Title: Re: 'WIDE A WAKE' a steam launch tale
Post by: K.B.C on April 16, 2016, 02:03:45 PM
Hmmm....I think if it's a multi start worm, the lead is greater than a single start worm.....so a double start with twice the lead would be half the ratio.....

What am I missing here?

Dave

Dave ,
According to H.P.C. gear manufacturer  and I quote, (  The ratio is No of teeth on the wheel divided by the No of teeth on the worm )

Think of a 10 tooth spur wheel and a 20 tooth wheel.  2:1 ratio

George.
Title: Re: 'WIDE A WAKE' a steam launch tale
Post by: Ramon on April 16, 2016, 02:41:34 PM
Hi George, Thanks again  for keeping an eye on things and posting those pics. ThumbsUp:

I have now realised that though I feel I could make a successful wheel with a tap as a hob I had overlooked the fact that though the pitch will be the same it will not have the same helix angle (lead) as the two or four start worm that I intended to match it with  ::)

I shall have a go at making a four start worm then and a hob to suit and try that to begin with. This will be a first for me so it will provide some added interest  ;)

With regard to the shaft bearing, my intention was to recess the head of the caphead screw into a counter bore on the end of the 'worm' and have the outer diameter (which will be slightly smaller in diameter than the root depth) as the bearing surface.

That said if this does not work out then I shall go the HPC route and try to extend the shaft.

We've had another wet and extremely cold abortive day sailing - didn't even put the bouys out this week :(

I'm now off to make a start on those blanks then  :).

My thanks again,

Regards - Ramon
Title: Re: 'WIDE A WAKE' a steam launch tale
Post by: Ramon on April 18, 2016, 10:18:32 PM
Hi George - the con rods have turned out okay - I will not need to solder pads on  :) I should get them completely finished tomorrow so a couple of pics then.

I had long thought that it was possible to make a worm wheel using a tap as a hob. Couldn't remember where I had seen that but having spent some time reading through what I have on cutting gears it certainly isn't in there  ::)  Eventually though it surfaced through the fading grey matter - it was Lou Blackmore describing his Bentley BR2 - he used the technique to get the worm and wheel for the oil pump.

Having read what is required in order to produce such parts suitable for the D10 I have taken your advice and ordered a set of gears from HPC today. Not cheap but the cost is well offset by not having to devote the time required to produce two parts and not least that having done so they might not be successful at that. With the engine at the angle it is I shall have to introduce a plinth of some kind to mount the bearings on but that shouldn't prove too problematical.

Thanks again for your help George - much appreciated.

Back soon with a further update guys

Regards - Ramon




Title: Re: 'WIDE A WAKE' a steam launch tale
Post by: Maryak on April 19, 2016, 02:41:17 AM
Hmmm....I think if it's a multi start worm, the lead is greater than a single start worm.....so a double start with twice the lead would be half the ratio.....

What am I missing here?

Dave

Dave ,
According to H.P.C. gear manufacturer  and I quote, (  The ratio is No of teeth on the wheel divided by the No of teeth on the worm )

Think of a 10 tooth spur wheel and a 20 tooth wheel.  2:1 ratio

George.

Yes, a single start worm has 1 tooth, a 2 start worm has 2 teeth..........................and on

So lets take a worm and a worm wheel of 60 teeth

1 start ratio = 60:1
2 start ratio =30:1
3 start ratio = 20:1
4 start ratio = 15:1

IMHO, both George and Dave's statements are correct as written above.

All that to one side, why not an additional eccentric on the crank to power the pump? Seems simpler to me but perhaps moves too far from replication.

Regards
Bob
Title: Re: 'WIDE A WAKE' a steam launch tale
Post by: K.B.C on April 19, 2016, 11:39:21 AM
Bob,

Yes you could drive the pump from a main shaft eccentric but it would pump too much water into the boiler.

I can only say that by experience with D10"s and Scotch marine type boilers, my current boiler is 4.75" dia x 5" between end plates, a 1/4" dia pump x max 3/4 " stroke  running at 120 strokes /min is enough to keep my boilers up all day as long as I have enough gas and water, I use pond water and that is why I have found that a reduction of between 4/1 and 6/1 is about right.
I also make a disc on the cross shaft that has various pitched holes that allows you to increase or reduce the stroke as required.

If you came direct from the main shaft which depending on boat size  and prop the main shaft on the D10 will turn  between 500- 700 r.p.m. so that would produce too much water for the boiler so then you have to start thinking about boiler level control and feed water bypass valves either manual or electronic.

I should have read Daves post closer as his quote  (  so a double start with twice the lead would be half the ratio  ) which is correct, it was the  ( What am I missing here ? ) quote that Foxed me.

At College 60 years ago as a first year student it was drummed into us that  " The number of teeth on  the follower divided by the number of teeth on the driver " gave you ratio  it's the same with worm gears.

Thanks for your input

George.
Title: Re: 'WIDE A WAKE' a steam launch tale
Post by: Maryak on April 20, 2016, 01:30:27 AM
Bob,

Yes you could drive the pump from a main shaft eccentric but it would pump too much water into the boiler.

I can only say that by experience with D10"s and Scotch marine type boilers, my current boiler is 4.75" dia x 5" between end plates, a 1/4" dia pump x max 3/4 " stroke  running at 120 strokes /min is enough to keep my boilers up all day as long as I have enough gas and water, I use pond water and that is why I have found that a reduction of between 4/1 and 6/1 is about right.
I also make a disc on the cross shaft that has various pitched holes that allows you to increase or reduce the stroke as required.

If you came direct from the main shaft which depending on boat size  and prop the main shaft on the D10 will turn  between 500- 700 r.p.m. so that would produce too much water for the boiler so then you have to start thinking about boiler level control and feed water bypass valves either manual or electronic.

I should have read Daves post closer as his quote  (  so a double start with twice the lead would be half the ratio  ) which is correct, it was the  ( What am I missing here ? ) quote that Foxed me.

At College 60 years ago as a first year student it was drummed into us that  " The number of teeth on  the follower divided by the number of teeth on the driver " gave you ratio  it's the same with worm gears.

Thanks for your input

George.

Hi George,

What made me ask about the eccentric was your comment on drilling various holes in the disk to arrive at a satisfactory flow rate for the boiler.

If your direct drive eccentric coupled to the pump shaft via a yoke ala the engine eccentric reversing system you should end up with a variable pump stroke from zero to full stroke and thus good control over water flow into the boiler.

Just a thought and in no way intended as a criticism.

Best Regards
Bob
Title: Re: 'WIDE A WAKE' a steam launch tale
Post by: K.B.C on April 20, 2016, 11:04:01 AM
Bob,
I am always open to new ideas and had no thoughts that your post was a critisism.
I do like the idea of using a quadrant as the reverse gear but I don't think it would be a good idea on a D10 as the linkage would need to be made and the assembly would stick out from the centre line and could foul the inside of the hull.

Also all that it would do is alter the stroke from Zero to full stroke as there is very little movement on the quadrant 
If the engine was running at 600 r.p.m. at say mid  stroke the pump would be stroking at 600 strokes /min and it will be too much water going into the boiler, I think that it would be quite difficult to get to Zero stroke you would need a very large quadrant, I think that the idea of the eccentric and the quadrant would take you into electronic boiler control with extra servos to operate the quadrant from Zero to Full.

With the worm and wheel the cross shaft having a disc on the end with a few tapped holes to allow adjustment of the stroke allows the pump to be mounted on the side of the base plate which takes up less space and with the 4- start worm and a 20 T wheel gives 5/1 reduction and at 600 r.p.m. gets the pump down to 140 stroke/ min. and this way gets rid of the clutter of rods and levers. All that is required with this set up is a water bypass valve to divert the water back into a tank if the pump is pushing too much water.
By experience you soon get to know your boilers needs, I am not ashamed to say that I am very anti electronic controls where boilers are concerned, I like to know what is happening rather than electronics doing it for me.

Maybe some day I will give your idea some fuller thought but at present it's much simpler to go for the worm and wheel.

George.
Title: Re: 'WIDE A WAKE' a steam launch tale
Post by: Jasonb on April 20, 2016, 05:44:28 PM
Ramon, Andrew did some hobbing with a spiral flute tap recently

http://www.modelenginemaker.com/index.php/topic,5008.msg103352.html#msg103352
Title: Re: 'WIDE A WAKE' a steam launch tale
Post by: steamer on April 20, 2016, 07:47:58 PM
Another point in the  plus column for a worm driven pump is that it slows the pump down, with a fast pump speed you are more likely to "vapor lock" it and it won't pump anything...especially when hot...

For that reason, on my launch, I am removing the engine driven pumps from the cross head and driving them via timing belt and reduced speed.   ( 12" to the foot size......)   My engine runs at 600 rpm...so it's fast

These small model ones can run 2000 rpm at a drop of a hat, so I'm not that surprised it's gear driven.

Big launch and ship sizes though....eccentric driven pumps are awesome.

Just showing the lump I got the hard way..... 8)

Dave
Title: Re: 'WIDE A WAKE' a steam launch tale
Post by: Ramon on April 21, 2016, 09:03:26 PM
Ok guys - back on the con rods  ;)

As mentioned they machined up okay despite being a tad narrower than the bronze originals across the fork. As they've turned out they are lighter but probably much stronger than the originals. I realise now that what George thought was the webs the wrong way was just excess material for holding with and this was left on as long as possible. The crankpin holes were done first followed by the slot for the yoke. This followed by roughing the ends in the chuck then turning between centres to give an accurate spigot to hold in the collet. The tapers were then turned using the top slide
(https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-K6blmvcJEfA/VxkozM5YPLI/AAAAAAAAOdc/O9Fk7hHrm2AE0B5n5x3AV9oau2ME-q1igCCo/s800-Ic42/DSCF8992.JPG)

The holes were drilled and reamed in one web and the other tapped 5BA then the palm was reduced to width. A couple of filing buttons were turned from silver steel to fit either hole with an 8BA bolt  through and the end bosses filed to shape. This went much better than anticipated and it was at this stage that it looked obvious there was sufficient material width for the task in hand without the need to solder on pads.
(https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-EakGT2d61Sg/Vxkoyz5hlKI/AAAAAAAAOdc/Gw5mLdOqlqskWVQJGwgAthtgHFvZsvk_ACCo/s800-Ic42/DSCF8996.JPG)

With Sue on holiday this week and the weather fine for gardening, workshop time has been a bit limited but the rods are finished, the crossheads made from EN1a freecutting mild steel - a great combination with cast iron - and hardened and tempered pins (the thread portion is an insert of 5BA threaded rod - allows the pin to pull up tight with maximum thread engagement) the parts are now ready for assembly next session
(https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-2pzMyDmlMD0/Vxkoy2gUlxI/AAAAAAAAOdc/xDG3fem_aikq5cPc_ny_q9I5HlbWoPzrwCCo/s800-Ic42/DSCF8997.JPG)

Having looked at the colour off and on for a few days I finally came to the conclusion I didn't like it so re-masked and over sprayed all the parts with a lighter grey which seems far more agreeable to the eye - well my eye at least  ;)
(https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-ul_HguSiP2U/Vxko0TrqJVI/AAAAAAAAOdc/CPvgijS8ggcie5zBufy4zHUmXQD0rmGzgCCo/s800-Ic42/DSCF9005.JPG)

As you can see the gears arrived today - the single most expensive part on this project so far I think  :o.
Your link to Andrews post came about an hour too late to save the day Jason - by then the money was spent  ::) Obviously there are 'for(s)' and against(s) in this area but I will stick to Georges recommendation now. I have counter-bored the end of the worm to sit on the reduced portion of the shaft and turned a small boss (6mm dia) for the other end in which the 4BA cap head locates
(the head of which was reduced to 4.5mm dia). Run out is negligible and it should sit in a bronze bearing nicely. Once the design is sorted out the worm will be reduced in bulk to look more in keeping.

Well that's it for another night - I must admit I'm tiring of this - when I look at all the photos in the album as they come up on Picasa it reminds me that it's been a long haul

Regards - Tug

Title: Re: 'WIDE A WAKE' a steam launch tale
Post by: zeeprogrammer on April 21, 2016, 09:16:45 PM
Still  :popcorn:  :ThumbsUp: :ThumbsUp:
Title: Re: 'WIDE A WAKE' a steam launch tale
Post by: crueby on April 21, 2016, 09:27:12 PM
Love the look of those con rods, clever how you left the blocks on for support. Gotta remember that one!
Title: Re: 'WIDE A WAKE' a steam launch tale
Post by: Ramon on April 26, 2016, 09:26:26 PM
Zee - is that pop corn or a bag of peanuts  ;)

Chris - leaving pieces on as long as possible for use as machining aids is a good method to adopt - it can make a big difference on work-holding particularly on awkward shaped parts.


Just a couple of pics tonight

First shows the lagging and method of attachment. The inserts were turned 2.5mm diameter, 5.8 long, drilled and tapped on the lathe - no danger of breaking the tap in the head itself plus not having to tap CI. I began with 14BA which were more scale like but after doing the first six decided against it on the basis that the threads are easily stripped. They were drilled out and the lot tapped 12BA.
(https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-4whmVAJUXeI/Vx_HPUrND4I/AAAAAAAAOd4/PferGEQeSUsAmdyax7CArAetLxfICDjaQCCo/s800/DSCF9010.JPG)
The lagging is walnut strip super glued with 'Zap' CA to a 1/64 plywood panel. The bands were held in a fixture then milled down from 5mm X 0.3mm strip to 2.8mm wide and a drill jig made for drilling the holes. The inserts are Loctited in the holes, the central ones held in place with 'Hafix' CA before filleting with JB Weld.

There was a question elsewhere on here recently about JB Weld and I remarked on it's tendency to slump.  I commented that colloidal silica is used to thicken epoxy but wasn't sure if that would have an effect on the JB's properties. Well, time for a test piece
(https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-ofr1GKutMmU/Vx_HPXVXSwI/AAAAAAAAOd8/MEpq4Z42V9EBH182_RcJqHl9LwBR0eqrQCCo/s800/DSCF9013.JPG)
The JB was well homogenised before adding a small amount of the silica. It certainly thickened it up without affecting the ease of application. The pic above was taken about twenty minutes after applying - as you can see no hint of slump or glossing over. About an hour later it had begun to cure enough to allow smoothing and shaping with a moistened finger tip.

Once this has cured fully and been fettled I can get the head painted then at last begin to put it all together.

Hope the latter is of interest to potential users

Regards - Ramon

Title: Re: 'WIDE A WAKE' a steam launch tale
Post by: crueby on April 27, 2016, 12:25:10 AM
Neat use of the inserts to handle the lagging bolts. Engine is coming along terrific!

I have used the silica for thickening epoxy and polyester resins a lot for boat building, no reason it should not work on the JB Weld too, glad to see it does. Have to remember that.  If you use the silica, just be sure not to breath it in, it is a super fine powder that tends to float around as you measure it out and start to mix. Very handy stuff, it does not absorb the resin like a wood flour does so it does not impede absorbtion into other materials. Great for thickening up resin to make a filet in corners, is still sandable/fileable when hardened.
Title: Re: 'WIDE A WAKE' a steam launch tale
Post by: K.B.C on May 02, 2016, 12:14:14 PM
Ok guys - back on the con rods  ;)

As mentioned they machined up okay despite being a tad narrower than the bronze originals across the fork. As they've turned out they are lighter but probably much stronger than the originals. I realise now that what George thought was the webs the wrong way was just excess material for holding with and this was left on as long as possible. The crankpin holes were done first followed by the slot for the yoke. This followed by roughing the ends in the chuck then turning between centres to give an accurate spigot to hold in the collet. The tapers were then turned using the top slide
(https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-K6blmvcJEfA/VxkozM5YPLI/AAAAAAAAOdc/O9Fk7hHrm2AE0B5n5x3AV9oau2ME-q1igCCo/s800-Ic42/DSCF8992.JPG)

The holes were drilled and reamed in one web and the other tapped 5BA then the palm was reduced to width. A couple of filing buttons were turned from silver steel to fit either hole with an 8BA bolt  through and the end bosses filed to shape. This went much better than anticipated and it was at this stage that it looked obvious there was sufficient material width for the task in hand without the need to solder on pads.
(https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-EakGT2d61Sg/Vxkoyz5hlKI/AAAAAAAAOdc/Gw5mLdOqlqskWVQJGwgAthtgHFvZsvk_ACCo/s800-Ic42/DSCF8996.JPG)

With Sue on holiday this week and the weather fine for gardening, workshop time has been a bit limited but the rods are finished, the crossheads made from EN1a freecutting mild steel - a great combination with cast iron - and hardened and tempered pins (the thread portion is an insert of 5BA threaded rod - allows the pin to pull up tight with maximum thread engagement) the parts are now ready for assembly next session
(https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-2pzMyDmlMD0/Vxkoy2gUlxI/AAAAAAAAOdc/xDG3fem_aikq5cPc_ny_q9I5HlbWoPzrwCCo/s800-Ic42/DSCF8997.JPG)

Having looked at the colour off and on for a few days I finally came to the conclusion I didn't like it so re-masked and over sprayed all the parts with a lighter grey which seems far more agreeable to the eye - well my eye at least  ;)
(https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-ul_HguSiP2U/Vxko0TrqJVI/AAAAAAAAOdc/CPvgijS8ggcie5zBufy4zHUmXQD0rmGzgCCo/s800-Ic42/DSCF9005.JPG)

As you can see the gears arrived today - the single most expensive part on this project so far I think  :o.
Your link to Andrews post came about an hour too late to save the day Jason - by then the money was spent  ::) Obviously there are 'for(s)' and against(s) in this area but I will stick to Georges recommendation now. I have counter-bored the end of the worm to sit on the reduced portion of the shaft and turned a small boss (6mm dia) for the other end in which the 4BA cap head locates
(the head of which was reduced to 4.5mm dia). Run out is negligible and it should sit in a bronze bearing nicely. Once the design is sorted out the worm will be reduced in bulk to look more in keeping.

Well that's it for another night - I must admit I'm tiring of this - when I look at all the photos in the album as they come up on Picasa it reminds me that it's been a long haul

Regards - Tug





Hi Ramon,
I have just started to look back at things, I have been laid up with a very back attack of Sciatica on my left leg, the pain of which I would not wish upon my worst enemy, I now think that I will live.

I see that you had enough material on the Con rods to make the Eye at 90 deg to the main shaft, on your pic it looked as if there wasn't enough and you could have ended up like my first attempt.
I like the idea of making the cross head out of M/S, something that had never crossed my mind but I shall keep that in mind for the future.
Your machining is an inspiration and drives me to get better , thanks for your postings and pics.

George
Title: Re: 'WIDE A WAKE' a steam launch tale
Post by: zeeprogrammer on May 02, 2016, 03:32:16 PM
Did a little more than just  :popcorn: this morning. (And that's popcorn Ramon. I eat peanuts out of a can  :Lol: )

When through the entire thread again. Geesh. Really can't say enough. Wonderful work. A great motivator too.
Really looking forward to the launch.
Title: Re: 'WIDE A WAKE' a steam launch tale
Post by: Ramon on May 02, 2016, 11:08:58 PM
Hi George - Just in from my plastic model night  :) and pleased to see your post but sorry to hear you've been in pain again - hope it's easing for you by the day.

I now have the engine erected and working on the valve gear. It turns over very smoothly and I'm well pleased with the alignment of the one piece head. I have made the expansion links from steel and have the eccentrics well under way. I'll try to post some pics tomorrow.

Zee - I admire your tenacity  :o - that's a long mornings worth of popcorn buddy  ;D. Thanks for your kind comments too - much appreciated. If you, or anyone else, can find some motivation or inspiration from then it makes the time spent doing it all worthwhile. It does get a bit tiring I have to confess but the end is not that far off - I even have a new stripey blazer just for the launching  ;)

Back tomorrow with some pics with luck,

Keep on improving George

Regards - Ramon
Title: Re: 'WIDE A WAKE' a steam launch tale
Post by: Tennessee Whiskey on May 03, 2016, 12:08:42 AM
Well I hope you've also chosen an appropriate bottle of bubbly to go along with the blazer  :stir:. Here's to blue skies,  calm winds,  and smooth water  :cheers:.

Cletus
Title: Re: 'WIDE A WAKE' a steam launch tale
Post by: Don1966 on May 03, 2016, 12:35:50 AM
Still following your resolve Ramon, alway great work....... :ThumbsUp:


 :popcorn:
Don
Title: Re: 'WIDE A WAKE' a steam launch tale
Post by: pgp001 on May 03, 2016, 01:15:19 PM
Ramon

Top Tip on the use of brass inserts for the 12BA lagging screws, I was dreading tapping those into Agnes's cylinders but now the job will be easy.

Thanks
Phil
Title: Re: 'WIDE A WAKE' a steam launch tale
Post by: Ramon on May 03, 2016, 09:39:03 PM
Hi Guys - nice to hear from you  ^-^ - thanks for your continued support. Good to hear from you too Don  :).

Yep Whiskey, I have the bubbly all ready even have some of those disposable 'champoo' flutes to hand it out in. Recipe downloaded for Cucumber sandwiches and we're all set to go - just need a bloody boat  ::) (oh and a Boater)

Phil - glad that's of use. It's something I have thought about doing for some time but this is the first time I've tried it. I can recommend it - it's proved totally successful. Were I to do it again (and it's a big 'were' at this stage) I would back drill the inserts first to leave about 3 mm of material for tapping. Though a bit longer in preparation that would cut down on the need to tap so deep for clearance.

Following on from the post on using the silica to thicken the JB Weld this proved successful and did not appear to have any detrimental effect on the strength. It was fettled with the usual rotary burr in a power tool and finished up like this. Incidentally I noticed that I ended up with a more cast like surface by fettling through the previously primed surface. Perhaps something worth bearing in mind if a rough cast like effect is required
(https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/wmHYPHAV0hQnorvr7R-Ebu3pUXx6TE_FDCiQQ39lz5Di_p2nX2omqYkFUyerlcg9pOoui_CxHnfSPgQbuoPuY2lMVaXfaYjZZ8aA3EJV7TYXfLsVuf48eYXWdIVu60h-KxoKfFnBtNvKFTzbKg23SPsY6dTAHG4b9Lhbt-XF5_TkueW3O_WrzXhIuPUfJlSPFBjgsPH6YnivQ3Ku6zKuiJejKFSQ3jfbfyAxNQHepgRoH8zNzOu0oG_wc4bES3NB2xB1i2hpjr71daLmxnfixZwfVNWhesWoM6p7_9HX3R5pl9BG0APUVX20NiFUqExWHeiRxsgF2uvmxMKsADRk4hAdCpyY9KGpdGgNfnCbejR3Wc2GB8t56zM5tlN104ftjGrVPxHcT5iSLtVvQqd3lqjwLWRmlBuszE2Z8znz0QYTOL1x_wxV5kMybx3WV18pEX7KfYoxFb5TTiCP2yvxrbdHlZ7pRF5Q6WJqNiIy5gQL8K_ToKqtCknQxOJrxPvDQl0nLp0sBnE7Xa7mgXWlIUUMv1ucerlGpweSjmkbADp5aiCqBlQToAmN-YOpUYfgrfBH=w920-h690-no)

The expansion links mentioned last post were milled from the same material as the con-rods and were milled on a sacrificial ali bed plate on the R/T
(https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/R3dSIEJ4R5jaz7-mNpNSeo99_assAiB2X7P8peR7Rda-wk3jNCAR-n8sGmE6ghCzSmlMX7SPHnzlgWLNE94AreBARDbcnSUObcQODIEykf0gvBI-tspw3SASSDQ02Z5KQevNXrm29P68eXGJPxhMeKXB1FwtfA-WZocAdznzHwQrpjUUf1Qbmka2z0s3Z4IgM8fODNObQrLvhRhcefrLh5vyCaPpCW2YenNEJN89VlsJ4ydeNYTPYRLsN-CjmKMHesVuDG_aAvQ5gMpPyWVlH-aT4x1s3bHtLWfcRm-y49y74jfx6M8pzKfmo6e_21kwTufPGZ1oyVmmIU8W5OmtyLafnrGohrPmrUv9-O8wPVlyUIaw2Dxh-6HMsr-yVVDUamAjcvZL1wdePyIC1eGLcLP1F_pUleGbaG6RRNgHSkRjHkHEzCHnu1bS4T4TsvbgkrQ5hvceuNNKbngDAtrAN9e9e1XpebkUSt15IXw6IOMIsobR575hHOKOwDqXg8guSypQ0p7JeQoaBury48mGtmWDsDPkWRkMFuaxFsf9F-tVZ0eglukMnnpiaT7Zm6Emr-HA=w920-h690-no)

(https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/F8MPnYTKuLA7uC9f2Ly8OHehXZ1rmzkgyqyX3UX56S4SZR80yY2hbDpgBdGg6pd7YeB21Lc-C0KzSZr7SaN6oLXvoeBLt4cVtuohxGecL7xLaP6WgIwoNNpsqhyNIjcvkR7r2EvuCM0SEZAJPXcDu2P7q_OaPmAZI1uBKRFlfSkgx8dsaJfMeigYkrC5HS4AZzev_8bJWOWUFe3hLsmAAEiDtMBtDilJN6N_ZiXVIoyPEd_1mo0u32Xtj_JjfANSDRDq4JL7mtg-3c6r5RruQt6MwO7wo3haRR9vasakgYRakBYAumy100YcmLs3YHoZOkiGJy7ZBJM0z6RSi8CemEdTF4rQPaqw0YVj6izLqj4N0XRGCPaa3lxfG_6HcNxojI8J1P4pBpVAtpPq1uXRSKwLpGMctU6kg1sX-lLD9FNk9RGqaDmzuYcgeD4O4Yg11z_LLG9lsweNLRCqwJ6OTPRzIBGHFTr2puCh6dQXgW6zaLG8k3WDdaK9JkF852hdRp4dXEA1btaZGe5nhIsavON0c8Svv787sBYWq4wfVNWZ52116T5M9imGk07-hEaMmTMs=w920-h690-no)

Once fettled up they don't look too bad and should last a bit longer than the ST brass stampings. The die blocks were milled from a slab of Manganese Bronze on the same fixture to the given radius then milled to width before cutting off with a slitting saw.
(https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/4Rt85DiHKAaYcjvVuIVrzdWvpvwFMq2OkWhposAZRJI7uKM5aWADUjKgx3XZb6pVmZ0W-Ceq2zCJjgw91oEZdMB-6asQxE1unf_nqv6WTmeSTZQ-B3NtmpYrLT3oDfI1qGIo2hiDOv1kchH_qxcZxS5yxaaEv9euaUxw3bl-ZuZaP4l1x9VHB_UOfThPoo8secu5u1DdugtZH9QrmV8ArwdNF05VYHEHL0t1t-JLnVQu-hAzBYH9KFhT0mNzYumA50nZ57r8-4LYfW42d0MF_lUpO8xWs5o-DLa95L13O8oHK708cVZD2A4Mbw72P5TQdV1QKbw_QNOVPdPrA9og1u5swq5n2QMLbQ-0z6yK-L_EvL6dohQoI_zDbBj9ewx50L_NnmTzkgOQsfe2Gg4N91onQaHW0nrAzE7fskmmoMgivbZbJ3JuKwgWo2hddOXJwlcI1eZrPC349XVMpSwnzcb4tiu4IfVu8h557OaprtA6PmMIecajeWz9ULKX3fZTEdPDS1q8IMp_ifddcHKHIXW9SRcNe5INQ4eN8tYjsh0gxDR9liABkaobNWmCRnDMWO9B=w920-h690-no)

The eccentric straps were machined from a bar of Manganese Bronze. The slabs were rough milled but had the lower portion milled to a set size (15mm). Once soft soldered together and the faces milled all over that join line is then at a known distance.
(https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/Z7Cum8thH9hehO6iOLC0FHi6jzcbuBy4dnOdWh_aRKzWXY3rqUKgFk0rAOqXyPBELe5Kdwwottq2zveeSStMdSwC9un8BaKHlD4RuDhcKdRt8EGuhmjc5TqjykSoiOO2NnyeO0sDwXL8UfYj4Sb5ZMoXSHDNdsIcmCkv3XXN3igcC3XgC6rVdpVmTvVk6BiRSRwkiaC86Z1S--MXpOl6JIXCZPrcL9zvSpH5TRrGedYseNMo2bhYRcNKWqzbTVfbgmc9qCSkpdUlQZz9vK1s4zHqfFutfyv6peCATnEH4zZ4sFk0QADVDsos0lUK5KkhnCIqjhHoI-ULzCDkfue0CcjnN7DaE7HuVbMXAbCcCESlpFYm_IvjifWctFPoUxYk3bha8vD9kz4M6BmUc7sKwr3ymQZw5PMDskF6FRL7e0Wk44ke1Va6efDUYZ0r-octzHbH3lAhWr7o9P82dJa-c4QNPI9J2hHTRLowSe9j7YB2NdPVBbr7l6T5C2IYzEhWVE6087ozcovbvlZM4ppZiOSH7fUVuMsqEMWfVxtdk89xpCokASvFd3hzDN6C7hCyljxu=w920-h690-no)

The outer profiles were milled and the bolt holes drilled and tapped so they could be reinforced with the bolts for the remaining machining ops
(https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/TdCHrPlZrSdq-3vYUEbImd0U08nw86n8DbFmLEGQww850fOJ_64OGzSbd2zkjrldodWuPP7UEIij-tRjCKZfWNp22G9QjTKjAGkMDSSeujqYvqOPmJeB8IMd8R3y1T59L4yj2HDkG-xPSKf6gx2F0z6_3L7AXydj_aHdHG6Y9IX3m7e5KU5wa1tbykTLsd_Lhpuraai0XkgBSvMYcow-9ctO4d1n3KH2tfs-5iE7Ap0xPmPjPNprKyLBWQIv5BbWtnLNfSUmKAdfrpUD_L1RFfpFt7Ui0iCuh0FwAmVfwtYrt2-gDo2Bdy3sf8Hmv7AbS6tbgOLiGLrVD4uqtgFrLN4d-RbR66ypyBr7_A9AAaUWqDDvnO_yvRxCjymf1-oRWagE4LxFNbVOpkRHHwSPf9RnexkF965ESrTV1CBssXKJ_jhnjWNc8SfMOUjxyst-aGR8J5smI8xuXtGG8bVulot1_Mi3UNF_1YdJAewXJA9XQ83bqGVLU6-q9eLzzuIBKMayp2DNviLrFJmF_LqeZPqGTGZsPc880lgJz1ItP_Y81lX6ChxfsbuG8upZErzlTZsh=w920-h690-no)

They were rough bored with a series of slot drills 6.5, 10, 12, 15,
(https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/UhNlsrDFSxIdih1y46FWoIM5dirM41JxOsO6-0Vqw31MHVDDIWh-a4iSQgAqxfIpWKXvPjLTZa87MqZnA8GveH1DInBaD6vR0Tl2ZdI30AA_9e96nLePGbtYQX3qDdZTHhHVAI355u0XW2I1znXfwOcdd5kT4tnbnxCFQQglEd0f3X6bS6m9g7JeGqxWD7mGbRdBy03_F1Ijs5_vCZzRlmHlEx6oGS7wkKWafMOKV2vIEUYaKJsrKdFnjjR4AsPwJGitTPx3qeRaVYoEVm1n-h3YwNIVoDNP4aDUdG3TbiHwCjRvOAlC0D50ZcAoL2QXg6YCf_wQ2Hv0WlrV40U6_ob1Mzthd3vJw2fuUO_L8acZuBOeii2teUcSehipcpiCWAkBiZfa3zFesMxH2d7PPgMfWUn1rqsN-twB2IUiBym5HNqko1qTg4AaX-ARQQYF4IvQmrj6GBL9CxbBvVkVR_mp1tGdxnZ4Rl6MvWxJRl9O93PCQs5-I1u26aDfmL4PuiOWs9wSVdK-4-YFy1Cr-n-vb4bnys3lklN93Zn4Ioxg8LpZt5jbhA3DSDMPpHIqoEQn=w920-h690-no)

Then finished bored in the mill to a plug gauge
(https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/PQQ8IiwoR_OndNst-lHbDyqxjV6cznTgMruZXF6n0IJKT6SWv6NllsLwCljuE_wSC1gwZl96iwtsaH5q-ZflGUpXYV8habrZYVPKcnx2eBXputvSKJ3_VZjP_x3jLOa0vQ8pQ-oeZhrmkW0kX74ITGlh89FwKQKB3bFfam7ktlfan246Fa6tF_CEXVrfb_c3z7v1UBKFXCEkmR3mkV6GXzHAe4fdBh_UqlDuD7na3yarIxKdR7EoPB2alWYKkZy6EX6wtQCMBOmDotjB0LU3GNvJFBI-g3G5FXKaPINHOaHDI0KqCC-zXYEcjLAx9PWSqBek0cvU32yqlUu71spUQnHRydVci6020tSi5QtlmXCYx8nRwl4HrnJqEfDrHrmQoOXwkrHAsSFMkO6xtkSXXCJbtJlHCutIgQvF47edcSSkCQEPQzKl2BAJ2nvmwlmKVlNaWn6GPVNP_F5R8GxnGRh8nN3dHp4IiaCkHtwYlcDPxowqWbmDTKm8WfVeTIMQmARFhrKBlyPk7EioqtdvwMtFMEi6XZrxYfgyZqfhYYtm0xi7edkOHtGaaBdKVx79g1IR=w920-h690-no)

A previously made expanding mandrel was recycled.....
(https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/TsaciGu61nHdOblfDnBpFlwHRW4uGPnpEI3NCLUvU2XH7mScPLlR0ghlkRV6_6wdDHPQcWHssY6GEHUoSIIUVzZvk3YEKYh4mhLLIqJtBjyr-Fx6eWI8rn82Vg_OtxYqQOqgQkHWJ5iyk7eVuSHS5UN9emnpjZ-GH0_pEuTokCGKhT5Kv3AjIB_VUZNCjQ3EIPGCjbV7jXuYED5iJBKrKQDj3dOqR_xiEu0atZsT7qw3PyJgmUe3YSXgo-GLd9s1qRXDHZOjf0EYpP3VTkjtd2az3hQfvTRX-wyjb0D0fhCeZvxqTAwaLLvUQ2yfCorCgwozzyxnuhN5NtiFHI9KvDgGpoe4DRcBOmyk6iPVswy5GmIbUElznMHq5JMRzj-zlbquakScrN1a6GNkUEmjrLk4wiYE7dccaVHF4aotfqyMIq2gpgeaPQA91NSWj_hIHFdjOv-PrZNrycx4fJS-zne_Hp69z-BIjAgDCcrOd4F9nUrEupQTYMR2Nh0X40-FPviriL9pX21g09oWZlQt2mZnFI3plr_tyhWrBI3Pkrk7Zm1m1gabvNDlMCfESPyc8Mu8=w920-h690-no)

...in order to face the width to size
(https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/IKUFL8kzlSRcOzqn49SKsPkPVBsq7MQQXNFfBW-0g6LqJgUP0ohSxjzdNmc7Mz__CqtyaqThiES4U847ri6dyHg834HDAvNyZN4aBOV7q_O4LNJ3Ut2AZqY_12ZHjvHyRsxDMVqvSuOvm24RAdP_IrdkzIYOPD37LecCN2tpVM6ebG9d2rmm6LDzqec8FmP9H-P-bDat7NQL7AOqik5INpQTfEXVaSFyJxwCL9HW2EHBaJgzGrdV8Q7WtFTV3x0qoavaljf1PHA3iRqRBfTqUd6TgM8NbWxmkr8WWyxjrcM8SPpgZBB5oQLCPbjsoij1tUcnf6NZqjs0cTALtcwhDWOgBAShU4q8saCrAl3xugKSyRF9C-BLCTfMggc3OGoM-n5QMMgMqrpbePW0ODDMF33Zgp32dDBDVtcgeiuRD0YEazT1_S-ObOLZ7ZiEpi2va6BHwOPWSBoHuuWWIUuyCaXFHwnjldxkcS4sSMIS7zUXaH0XAChB39EHa2uZedRkKga8KwhoN3RhKFFzoJU6-Fn52YGN9KMhbZf5PHMOBBPvF2qbCK574B547frLk7AwxKcH=w920-h690-no)

And this is it for tonight - not too many parts left now
(https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/KTQVWnZQ9Js-sFJg9mk7RHfCXltfMdxyU17l2fMKAN7YgJjk8QTnDrS5xSyHfy36VeLaqbS44oBxs2WC3a8toUmlMxpq1lASCd32jn3Zc53uqCAtKlahNU-a8ozCAh99aJnXFtWkeM2DJN9FUCA5fVq-0s1mKeIPHTdPOz7UtDjKl3XjJ2rDOBoQOCJg96GSOT863S28KgCmURu3sd7-N4g0yB_vmKTDqolfkzpYOdmvZ6Il_SnrPEfKNyhGqcgi88o7pSKHCs4v80s9Oi_yjCo6oNEHY8r17d23FCJnyZR1EHuO4j-77D8xYZRoZFg_9maDN_1gOyUefZTxJCKflEKrQ2YCr4Y5Xuffd7-W63cZqb8OrmowH-lNsimKlVbj-K6siVCKQq9IPdjxurb8x-n_nvvh11m6rK8IfHEWUCU0aNePsBzV33q6Vabds300gfC-O3iI4IE9eCgn-TvWBuQh5m9j7teDs1oforrfYl0B-KwN-d3xmz89wevaowZW8l56Nj13HIcr--aIr6MxrC2ExpuoyJ8Y4JUgPwmNxka1OF7z6gUZxzVM3mT8sTee4V2J=w920-h690-no)

The pistons are fitted  - I decided in the end to use graphite packing - yes I know, I know but I'm a traditionalist you see  ;) The engine turns over extremely smoothly with no tight or loose spots which I was pleased about given the use of new and old parts.
(https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/l3wnC0iSkH4Sc4qXoQ4fI64gHz_fBV_Ss25QE-mHguOsVULyu0v0vhJR_Unyxe6Xa7NCzUdySyIbdhv7uoS4IXUzycPYsmdmPh5u0do-3IGS3LZyk4Q9RKhG1RS0YEETUaeqyvdioh6SqzrLNcp-bQeENMxOO981X8lCpOkFWiqxeEdkXZM85S6Ugv2KiyHPw4aADDsXw3_uODcN0saqX8CzMO8qo2mcnnYfAA9-WETS5tAXlxvPrggtYARFtMLddT7jRQ3hjpt50be-sI6jacq_Bu5KxhhscV-6-kzhvNbPSp8NmFPkowdOjw_QRJrOOP4Cn0XZr7gw08LzakFQJe0ZkhSXVLCE0JoAG5kmiHHUsEMaFnFGCnMdI-MGmRqriS3iyTxLkklryRxSa15wfz5ARqrhcwDZND16kXheV4T0ZXDkRrBFPvoUjCDztoAFlujqAditZT28vX_msxoPS69OwuOYkMo1wHH5Ca1TOpPyHMIBaDObzE3bPAGvUihp_8bKOephFWZYq4CBgJq-3xptvcA6TwL-X66nZH-U8bNs-6nD8cLciT20zFcQXL0Dni_9=w920-h690-no)


Well that's it for tonight - a couple of more days and I should be able to start to put it all together but tomorrow is a garden day.


I note the thread has passed the 50,000 mark  :o so thanks to all who look in on such a regular basis - I know this is only a Double Ten but bear with it - it'll be back in the boat afore too long.

regards - Ramon





Title: Re: 'WIDE A WAKE' a steam launch tale
Post by: crueby on May 03, 2016, 10:32:19 PM
Coming together wonderfully! That engine block is great!
Title: Re: 'WIDE A WAKE' a steam launch tale
Post by: K.B.C on May 04, 2016, 03:33:45 PM
Hi Ramon,
The engine is coming along very nicely, do I spy that the flywheel is held on by a taper sleeve?  in my opinion it's the only way to go, if you hold it on with the recommended grub screw with a flat on the shaft what happens in an emergancy if you have to slam it into reverse it just chews lumps out of the shaft.

As you are near to fitting the eccentrics and the reverse gear can I recommend that on the valve rod which has to be screwed 5 b.a. and tapped into the buckle you make a new rod from 1/8" dia St/St and bore the buckle 1/8" dia with a small grub screw to hold the valve in position as per my pic.
It will save you a great deal of time when you are setting the valve, it's only a matter of adjusting by the grub screw.
Other wise it's a bit of a pain having to do all of the adjustments by the 5b.a. screw and having to undo all the drag links and other parts.

You are a lucky guy that can lay your hands on bars of Manganize Bronze, to buy that stuff is a Bank loan case.

I look forward to your further progress.

George.

Title: Re: 'WIDE A WAKE' a steam launch tale
Post by: Ramon on May 04, 2016, 04:22:10 PM
Hello George - yes the flywheel is indeed located by a taper grip - I got it off you on Mayhem if I recall  :) The drive dog however is held by grub screw on both engine and prop shaft so I guess the same can happen. Only yesterday I found some small dog point socket grub-screws -  I'll see if I can incorporate them to locate in holes in the shafts.

I like the idea of the small grub-screw holding the valve nut, certainly much easier that breaking all the linkage down as you say.

I have made the eccentrics without a boss and independent of each other. They will be held by a grub-screw too with access through the strap - the holes you can see are to pass the key through and will double up as oil points. I'm waiting on a 9/32 reamer before I can finish them.

The manganese bronze is from small off cuts from a work project of many years ago. I confess I was the inveterate scrounger - nothing was overlooked but I had one caveat - I would always ask. Only on Monday though a good a friend was bemoaning the 'loss' of access to such 'treasures' that retirement brings. As you say I would hate to even think about buying it today.

Regards - Ramon
Title: Re: 'WIDE A WAKE' a steam launch tale
Post by: Tennessee Whiskey on May 04, 2016, 07:21:24 PM
Sounds like you have the "launch party" well planned  :ThumbsUp: :cheers:. Funny you mentioning your friends retirement dilemma.  Back when I had a real job in the boiler industry,  most jobs were "cost -plus" . At the end of the job the client didn't want the old tools and materials and those of us trying to up our bonuses,  didn't want to spend the money to ship it back to the home office.  So,  we just gave it away.  I still have a good supply of a lot of things such as files,  tungsten,  ceramic tig torch cups,  Victor oxy-actly equipment,  and so forth.  However my "consumables " department is about gone.  So, I called my old boss and ask him if I could come back to work for just a couple of weeks  ( Haven't worked for him in 30 years ) He asked why and I answered : "just need to stock up on a few things " :lolb:.
Can't wait to see pics of this new blazer  :cheers:

Whiskey
Title: Re: 'WIDE A WAKE' a steam launch tale
Post by: Roger B on May 05, 2016, 07:31:09 PM
It may be 'just a Double 10' but you've put a lot into suitable materials to give it a long and reliable working life  :ThumbsUp:  :ThumbsUp:
Title: Re: 'WIDE A WAKE' a steam launch tale
Post by: zeeprogrammer on May 05, 2016, 10:17:32 PM
I know this is only a Double Ten but bear with it -

Bite your tongue. It's a well made Double Ten...along with a well made boiler and boat.
Can't wait to see the launch.

No problem 'bearing' it.
Title: Re: 'WIDE A WAKE' a steam launch tale
Post by: Ramon on May 09, 2016, 11:10:45 PM
Hi Guys - Thanks for all your kind comments  :).

I have a little further progress to report on. Today I managed to get all the linkage assembled and was able to try the action of moving the valve gear through it's arc. With a little bit of fine fettling on the eccentric rod lengths I'm happy to say it all works very smoothly. I have to dis-assemble every thing however as I feel the crankshaft really needs to be grooved to take the eccentric grub-screw points. Also - having sat the engine in the boat I'm thinking I may have to change the colour - again ::) I had overlooked the fact that the inner hull is painted a similar grey and it just doesn't look right. 'Waller' green it could be then - possibly  :D

The eccentrics were turned from FCMS. The straps will sit in a 5mm wide groove and the overall width will be 5.5mm - not an easy thing to hold on such thin flanges.
 
To combat this the flanges were made a good 1.5 mm wide and the eccentric parted off. They could then be held in a quickly machined fixture (the ali plate used for the levers was recycled) The hole for the eccentric OD is turned on centre with a shoulder for the eccentric to push up square against, then the fixture is off set by the throw of the eccentric and re-clamped. Providing all the eccentric OD's are within a gnats whisker the clamp screw holds them very firmly for the crankshaft hole to be drilled and reamed and ensures it is square to the plane of the eccentric.
(https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-2rerJ21MfKA/Vy-zfrjFOVI/AAAAAAAAOiM/fYyHHXWmOYgwuogp-ScLPMT6yf-sret9wCCo/s800/DSCF9092.JPG)

They could then be set on an expanding mandrel for facing to width ....
(https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-U5G01LcTzAY/Vy-ziQuyrgI/AAAAAAAAOiQ/klMhbe3kvusKxO9zhcP-fXvlPgOnNa9lACCo/s800/DSCF9107.JPG)

.... and then cross drilling for the grub screws
(https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-B75qtHMisKw/VzD-oONPCKI/AAAAAAAAOi8/D0rKA3hwE1AgOX8eDQuvPa6seH4Xg2fHQCCo/s800/DSCF9113.JPG)

The drag link arms were milled from a solid piece of steel as per the eccentric rods, draw filed and brought to a uniform width. Another quickly milled fixture enabled the drilling to be accurate one to one......
(https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-N6FP9RJyl0g/Vy-zferTBlI/AAAAAAAAOiM/LZbzMi4H_l0QsaUMLBcGo-lhhHjd4F1AwCCo/s800/DSCF9095.JPG)

... before using it again to hold the parts to reduce the width
(https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-lHlfhjHIQRw/Vy-zflTPvPI/AAAAAAAAOiM/1KiORTfkC1wnh6jdLlKN1Shc8iRV8x-OQCCo/s800/DSCF9099.JPG)

A couple of quickly turned buttons (hardened) helped in shaping the ends
(https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-cu-ZlU6t8oE/Vy-zhlM0maI/AAAAAAAAOiQ/iUjY6gJp7ZM0CGZMunYhN2g-vf6yDDuwQCCo/s800/DSCF9104.JPG)

The result of todays endeavours - eccentrics all ready to refit, just the clevis pins to turn.
(https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-S2N_d3UpPcg/VzD-oB4EQWI/AAAAAAAAOi8/qPEvrfpR1YsBSvbV0THBFehCKtwDttHNQCCo/s800/DSCF9121.JPG)

And a final look at the linkage
(https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-obecVYG0tN0/VzD-oDGBr_I/AAAAAAAAOi8/RVwyyHL9Y0E_2F-dLfsffuB5gi-gDgTfwCCo/s800/DSCF9126.JPG)

Just those pins and the valves and nuts left to complete the mechanics then the inlet and exhaust system to do before it can be run

I see there's been near a thousand visits this past week  :o :o :o - I can only assume 'You're Luvin It'  ;)

Regards - Ramon
Title: Re: 'WIDE A WAKE' a steam launch tale
Post by: Tennessee Whiskey on May 09, 2016, 11:36:19 PM
A thousand visits: Isn't it wonderful to be loved  :lolb:. Ramon,  simply beautiful attention to the detail;  have you thought of hiring one of those "interior" types to help select the colors,  or perhaps the missus,  they are the ones that should be pleased; no? :old:

E
Title: Re: 'WIDE A WAKE' a steam launch tale
Post by: joe d on May 09, 2016, 11:37:28 PM
Well,don't know about the other 999, but I'm lovin it!

Glad to following along, Ramon

Joe
Title: Re: 'WIDE A WAKE' a steam launch tale
Post by: crueby on May 09, 2016, 11:40:31 PM
The eccentrics are looking great!

On your measurement of OD by 'gnats whisker' - is that based on a European or Asian gnat?   :ROFL:
Title: Re: 'WIDE A WAKE' a steam launch tale
Post by: Don1966 on May 10, 2016, 12:24:20 AM
Every time I tune in Ramon, I feel like I stepped into a classroom. Just enjoyable to see you progress my friend.

 8) Don
Title: Re: 'WIDE A WAKE' a steam launch tale
Post by: b.lindsey on May 10, 2016, 12:29:19 AM
I haven't commented in a while Ramon, but I am still watching and really admiring all your are doing on this fine engine. Inspirational stuff for sure!!

Bill
Title: Re: 'WIDE A WAKE' a steam launch tale
Post by: zeeprogrammer on May 10, 2016, 12:38:11 AM
I see there's been near a thousand visits this past week. I can only assume 'You're Luvin It'

Your assumption is correct and will hold until I get lost. What is FCMS?  :lolb:

I may just be one of a thousand...but I count!
Title: Re: 'WIDE A WAKE' a steam launch tale
Post by: derekwarner on May 10, 2016, 12:53:45 AM
Even from 22,000 km away we are watching  :atcomputer: .......an inspiration to all :ThumbsUp: .................Derek

FCMS? ...... [maybe a good dose of sulphur or lead in the brew?  :toilet_claw: ]

http://www.google.com.au/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=1&cad=rja&uact=8&ved=0ahUKEwjb1r_Ll87MAhXGF5QKHRTRAb0QFggbMAA&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.polytechforum.com%2Fmetalworking%2Fsteel-alloys-fcms-bms-and-ms-405146-.htm&usg=AFQjCNH2EWjTXUSJOZfRC3ap5TgW9DdVCA&sig2=iOeErS_G-E2MH0KTILyWAA&bvm=bv.121421273,d.dGo
Title: Re: 'WIDE A WAKE' a steam launch tale
Post by: zeeprogrammer on May 10, 2016, 12:57:12 AM
Thanks Derek. I'd done a quick google but should have dug deeper.
Title: Re: 'WIDE A WAKE' a steam launch tale
Post by: Maryak on May 10, 2016, 02:32:34 AM
I haven't commented in a while Ramon, but I am still watching and really admiring all your are doing on this fine engine. Inspirational stuff for sure!!

Bill

Me 2

Regards
Bob
Title: Re: 'WIDE A WAKE' a steam launch tale
Post by: steamboatmodel on May 10, 2016, 03:21:18 PM
I have been following very carefully as I have a set of D10 castings that have been ageing in my shop.
Regards,
Gerald.
Title: Re: 'WIDE A WAKE' a steam launch tale
Post by: Ramon on May 10, 2016, 11:26:09 PM
Hi Guy's - Thanks for your responses  :ThumbsUp:

Ah what's in a colour Eric  ::) Mice, men and best laid plans spring to mind. The 'Waller Engine green' is no longer available - well at least from my local car shop. That left over is not enough to do this engine so will be kept in case touch ups on the Waller are required. I've also overlooked the fact that once the engine and boiler mount is in very little of the grey painted hull is visible so being somewhat 'conservative' I'll carry out a 'U' turn and stick with the light grey for the time being and see how it pans out.

That'll be an Asian gnat Chris - Mitutoyo Mics ;)

Derek has put you straight Zee, it's a great combination with gunmetal/yellow bronze for wear characteristics

Gerald, good to see you here, hope it's proving useful for you. Just don't let them age too long - it makes for a great little project as I'm sure you're aware

Today got off to a bit of a bad start :( but then picked itself up and got a tad better  :)

I made a start on the valves using a small scrap of M/Bronze that required little machining to bring to the section size then the valve pockets were carefully milled in each end.
(https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-gVOnT3NtJq4/VzI9gjV-2BI/AAAAAAAAOjU/8e3ON2zIR08g2AjEKfe1PhxsJiN0V0Y7wCCo/s800/DSCF9131.JPG)

Turned over, the side clearance and slots for the nut and spindle were milled in .....then realisation kicked in - I'd milled the pocket 90 degrees out of phase  ::)
(https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-zT_2tmNGUwE/VzI9gm5nbMI/AAAAAAAAOjo/_HzhFBCDrgASnRR9UGDCYFBgJnJ3V8eEwCCo/s800/DSCF9140.JPG)

(https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-kDtw1FSmWG0/VzI9gXge0ZI/AAAAAAAAOjQ/toVwbU5RLQUqusNM4QpjzVmpcvlpeGc8wCCo/s800/DSCF9138.JPG)

This time no small piece was available so another somewhat larger piece of the rapidly dwindling resources (Know exactly what you mean about consumables Eric  ;)) was milled away to start over.

The second attempt was more successful and the valves and nuts fitted as recommended by good friend George (K.B.C.) Another benefit I discovered with this method George was that the valves could be installed without taking the steam chest off or dropping the rod right out.
(https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-bQ1Z8E2jot8/VzI9hxims1I/AAAAAAAAOjo/8BLJd6TxxNQz4m1YnhWG6E543IwuhTSxACCo/s800/DSCF9142.JPG)

I think there's only the clevis pins left to make - tomorrow should see the re-assembly proper

Thanks again guys

regards - Ramon
Title: Re: 'WIDE A WAKE' a steam launch tale
Post by: zeeprogrammer on May 11, 2016, 01:17:58 AM
I think there's only the clevis pins left to make - tomorrow should see the re-assembly proper

 :cartwheel:
Title: Re: 'WIDE A WAKE' a steam launch tale
Post by: Ramon on May 11, 2016, 07:01:02 PM
Its a runner  :) :) :) :) :)
Title: Re: 'WIDE A WAKE' a steam launch tale
Post by: crueby on May 11, 2016, 07:45:23 PM
Its a runner  :) :) :) :) :)

Congratulations!

Video?!  Pleeeaasssee?

Title: Re: 'WIDE A WAKE' a steam launch tale
Post by: zeeprogrammer on May 11, 2016, 08:29:13 PM
Its a runner  :) :) :) :) :)

Congratulations!

Video?!  Pleeeaasssee?

I mean really? You just pop in and say it's a runner? Have you not been on other threads?

It didn't happen yet.  :rant:

 ;D
Title: Re: 'WIDE A WAKE' a steam launch tale
Post by: Jasonb on May 11, 2016, 08:37:53 PM
Its a runner  :) :) :) :) :)

I would not expect anything less ;)
Title: Re: 'WIDE A WAKE' a steam launch tale
Post by: crueby on May 11, 2016, 08:55:21 PM
Maybe it just ran away. Saw the rest of us mob and ran....
Title: Re: 'WIDE A WAKE' a steam launch tale
Post by: Ramon on May 11, 2016, 10:16:33 PM
Back again guys  :)

Only one pic tonight but it is of the last 'mechanical' items required

The clevis pins were turned from silver steel, the washers from mild steel. A simple drill jig ensured the cross holes were true and it was all ready to reassemble.
(https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-XsoZtnJrgmE/VzOZvoFJ14I/AAAAAAAAOj8/MZj6__TewXYdKN7-q6SKjTtav9KAbtetgCCo/s800/DSCF9146.JPG)

The crankshaft was removed for grooving and by late this afternoon it was all together ready to set the valves. I have to say yet again that Georges tip for driving the valve by grub screw proved an absolute boon - so simple but such an improvement on having to break things apart just to give the valve rod half a turn or so. Thanks George  :ThumbsUp:

I popped the steam chest cover on one end with a couple of nuts and applied some air to the inlet. A bit of tweaking of the eccentric - pleased to say the access through the strap with the allen key proved successful - and the engine was soon off on one cylinder. The reversing gear ran through okay too. This was all repeated for the second end with the same result - that's when you got the last post  ;)

This evening I cobbled together a 'Y' tube out of copper tube and silicone tubing and with the aid of Sue on the throttle (clamp on the silicone) had it running as it should on both cylinders with some degree of control. It ticks over very slowly which is always a good sign and runs quite smoothly.

I note the valve shaft oscillates slightly so I guess some sort of servo 'saver' device will have to be incorporated in the push rod. Any thoughts George?

After running it for a bit like that I cleaned it and bolted one steam chest on properly using Hylomar as a sealant. This engine is the first time I've used this product - it's easy enough to apply but is it sticky stuff. Anyone any idea what will remove the excess bearing in mind I can't use anything solvent based?

Well, all that remains is to make the exhaust and inlet pipework and regulator. Only when that's done will you get a video  :)

I've promised myself a garden day tomorrow so it will be next week before it's ready to fit in the boat.

So there you are then Zee and Chris - I guess you can sleep easy now guys  ;D

Regards - Ramon

Title: Re: 'WIDE A WAKE' a steam launch tale
Post by: Johnb on May 11, 2016, 10:20:42 PM
 :ThumbsUp: :ThumbsUp: :ThumbsUp: :ThumbsUp:
Title: Re: 'WIDE A WAKE' a steam launch tale
Post by: Tennessee Whiskey on May 11, 2016, 10:27:16 PM
Being one who's business is greatly weather driven,  I'm sorry old boy,  hope it rains like the devil and then we can get our video  :lolb: :lolb:. I'm  :popcorn: and  :DrinkPint: and waiting.

Eric
Title: Re: 'WIDE A WAKE' a steam launch tale
Post by: crueby on May 11, 2016, 10:38:54 PM
Sounds like it is coming together nicely. For a servo saver, typically we used the double spring type - rod runs through a slip fit sleeve on ghe servo horn, kn either side is a spring with a stop collar on the end. Allows for some vibration movement while limiting the total travel. You can buy them, or if you can find springs the right strength they are simple to make. Another way is to use a pushrod with a W bend in the middle to let it flex a bit.
Title: Re: 'WIDE A WAKE' a steam launch tale
Post by: K.B.C on May 12, 2016, 12:01:34 AM
Quote.
(I note the valve shaft oscillates slightly so I guess some sort of servo 'saver' device will have to be incorporated in the push rod. Any thoughts George?)


Hi Ramon,
It's coming together fine great job, here is a Servo saver that was given to me by( Alex C ) a contributer to this forum and a very fine engineer, fine springs are available from Biro pens, can be bought as a pack in "TESCO"
I don't know why the oscillations happen with the revers gear, I have tried on several occasions to cure the problem with limited succes,I now use a steel geared high pull servo which helps.

Is there a reason for machining the boss off of the top steam chest and not taking the valve rod up into it as a support ? 

The pic with the servo saver was an attempt to start a 10 V in any position and also to revers it with a servo using slip eccentric.

George.

Title: Re: 'WIDE A WAKE' a steam launch tale
Post by: b.lindsey on May 12, 2016, 12:02:49 AM
Congratulations Ramon...enjoy your day in the garden and then get to work on that video :) Seriously, some beautiful work on this one.

Bill
Title: Re: 'WIDE A WAKE' a steam launch tale
Post by: Don1966 on May 12, 2016, 01:05:58 AM
Well I didn't have any doubt it was a runner and patently waiting for the video.

Don
Title: Re: 'WIDE A WAKE' a steam launch tale
Post by: Ramon on May 12, 2016, 08:26:36 AM
Morning guys, thanks for your comments as usual  :)

Well Eric it's wall to wall sunshine out here so I guess you'll have to sit tight a mite longer mate - but it won't be much longer  ;)

John B - Nice to see you're still looking in - hope you are keeping well.

Chris and George - thanks for the info on the servo saver - I shall make something on that lines once it's all installed.
George - I noticed yesterday  that there seems to be a 'sweet spot' just before full travel when the oscillation is virtually nil. I shall be using a high torque servo and will make a slotted arm so that I can get the total travel exactly right. Coupled with adjustment on the servo itself (EPA) It should prove possible to arrive in that position at full servo travel.

The steam chests were made from solid and when I drew them out the top guide was over looked  ::). I did think about fitting an insert when machining them but decided to go as is for now.  Hope you are feeling better George and making steady improvement

Don and Bill -  :ThumbsUp:

Well I can feel the lure of the soil  ;D but first I need my breakfast - enjoy your day too  :)


Regards - Ramon
Title: Re: 'WIDE A WAKE' a steam launch tale
Post by: sco on May 12, 2016, 08:51:44 AM
Still following quietly - enjoy the sunshine, best wishes,

Simon.
Title: Re: 'WIDE A WAKE' a steam launch tale
Post by: K.B.C on May 12, 2016, 11:55:56 AM
Hi Ramon,

Thanks for asking after my health, both legs are working quite well but the Sciatica has left my right thigh with the strangest nerve tingle, not painfull but constantly there.
I am just annoyed that with all this good weather I am unable to get out on the bike.

The valve rod without the guide at the top won't be a problem, with hole in the Packing gland and the hole in the bottom of the steam chest is sufficiant enough to keep the rod straight.

Quote from P 37 Post no 541.

I have made the eccentrics without a boss and independent of each other. They will be held by a grub-screw too with access through the strap - the holes you can see are to pass the key through and will double up as oil points. I'm waiting on a 9/32 reamer before I can finish them.

I have made several other engines with the eccentrics having the raised up stand but always with a boss for the grup screw, I an struggling to figure out how you time the valve.
I know you are going down thro' the oil hole to fix the grub screw into the eccentric and on to the shaft but how can you turn the eccentric without moving the strap ? as the Allen key will turn both at the same time and to get the adjustment you need to move the eccentric while the strap is stationary, or am I missing something.

I am at present now able to have a short time in the work shop and I am machining up a set of SCORE castings that I bought part machined on e-bay, one of the holes in the steam chest was out of line with the bottom hole with the packing gland, after trying to blug the hole with a brass rod to no effect, I then tried filling the hole with chemical metal and after leaving 24 hrs to cure when drilling thro' using the bottom hole as a guide the drill still followed the old hole in the casting so I had no alternative but to bore out both steam chests and make an insert on both to take the valve rod.
Unfortunately I couldn't do as you have done leaving the valve rod without the top support hole as the previus owner had drilled the hole in the bottom of the steam chest 9/64" dia instead of 1/8 reamed so hence the need for the top hole support.

George.


Title: Re: 'WIDE A WAKE' a steam launch tale
Post by: Ramon on May 12, 2016, 08:52:51 PM
Hi Simon - nice to hear from you  :) hope you and Wendy are keeping well.

George - Glad to hear that things have eased on the Sciatica front.

Re the method of holding the eccentrics and changing position. You are right of course that the key prevents the eccentric from moving relative to the strap but not of course to the crankshaft. Though my experience is limited I just looked at it from being able to set the eccentric in the right position relative to the crank web and sorting the valve out after - it certainly worked like that yesterday.  The screw was eased, the crank gently rotated and the screw locked. The valve was then reset.

Glad to hear you are now able to get back in the workshop for a time - I know that's something I would really miss were the situation to arise. Good luck with the Score despite those errors - if it comes out as well as that last D10 you did then you will have another fine engine under your belt  ;)

It's an early night for me tonight - plumb wore myself out today  ;D - If there's one area where I begin to feel my age it's in the garden ::)

Regards - Ramon
Title: Re: 'WIDE A WAKE' a steam launch tale
Post by: Ramon on May 23, 2016, 10:01:31 PM
Hi guys, a small update at last, it's been a busy few days with one or three distractions  ::)


It's a bit later than anticipated but the engine is ready to fit into the boat (well not quite as you will see) I finished off the lagging of the inlet pipe today so here it is ready to fit, just the regulator and piping to the boiler to do

(https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-26BCasenoI8/V0NggM9PlWI/AAAAAAAAOlo/iSFfi42WBHUB3AyS9Fv6d2KTAsnNwSpSACCo/s800/DSCF9166.JPG)

I made a small fixture for holding the flanges at the correct distance whilst silver soldering - this is post soldering on the exhaust, the holes for the inlet next to it - it worked very well  :)
(https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-f-8g0-j2l84/V0Ngf0cHJFI/AAAAAAAAOlo/UeLGenJL2bMOpIzuz32x8rbMhnkKn20_gCCo/s800/DSCF9165.JPG)

Though it's a bit 'overscale' the original Stuart Turner displacement oiler bought in 1972 finally gets to see some work. It will be interesting to see how well it does in this position which is about the best solution I could find.
(https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-ob-tKE-oF5Q/V0NggPHrq8I/AAAAAAAAOlo/Bwt-TU5zPS0RioixPFE8xxuu_vO7snqTACCo/s800/DSCF9169.JPG)

The exhaust will down feed into an oil collector/'condensor' the size and fitting of which is still as yet to be decided upon. Any thoughts Derek/George?
(https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-yPBQ94Ri404/V0NgiHnWztI/AAAAAAAAOlo/BmpEG6kGK8sKjmb-dC_8cJ3nEnLD39IWACCo/s800/DSCF9170.JPG)

The copper wire in lieu of split pins will be replaced with the correct item in due course.
(https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-dBTq-fxXWR4/V0NgiwpVqLI/AAAAAAAAOlo/ijALe-qCakECMBQlfBM47dGwbv5ZN_l7gCCo/s800/DSCF9174.JPG)

That's it then, the third phase more or less complete. It runs very smoothly and ticks over incredibly slowly on a mere whiff of air. However, before you start clamouring for a video  :)  I should point out that having taken some this evening it's really not very suitable so I'll have do it again at some stage. Whilst running the engine for that though a very slight tapping type knock developed which the video accentuates. At first it appeared untraceable though eventually I suspected one of the eccentric rods being a gnats overlong. Finally however after a lot of 'try and see' I'm pretty sure it is the result of using those original big ends which aren't quite as good a fit as I first thought.

So next up will be to renew those, make a regulator and turn attention to the two pumps and a gas regulator. Right at this point though I have to take a short break to attend to something else for a few weeks. If all goes to plan however it should see a September launching  :) - perhaps I should add, hopefully this year and not next  :D

Regards - Ramon
Title: Re: 'WIDE A WAKE' a steam launch tale
Post by: b.lindsey on May 24, 2016, 12:25:09 AM
It really turned out to be a beautiful engine Ramon. Looking forward to seeing in mounted it the launch and under steam. Most impressive I must say!!

Bill
Title: Re: 'WIDE A WAKE' a steam launch tale
Post by: Robert Hornby on May 24, 2016, 12:26:05 AM
Lovely work Ramon, looking forward to seeing it fitted into the launch. http://www.modelenginemaker.com/Smileys/default/ThumbsUp.gif
Title: Re: 'WIDE A WAKE' a steam launch tale
Post by: Don1966 on May 24, 2016, 01:06:21 AM
Beautifully done Ramon the engine looks a treat my friend and great details. Very anxiously waiting for the video........... :praise2:


Don
Title: Re: 'WIDE A WAKE' a steam launch tale
Post by: zeeprogrammer on May 24, 2016, 01:24:06 AM
however it should see a September launching

Argh. You're asking a lot for that kind of patience.

But I'm in.

Just do me a favor and remind me when it comes time.  :old:
Title: Re: 'WIDE A WAKE' a steam launch tale
Post by: Dave Otto on May 24, 2016, 02:51:32 AM
Very nice Ramon,

Among other things I like the extra hardware on the steam chest and cylinder covers; it makes is look so much more like it's full sized counterpart.

Dave
 
Title: Re: 'WIDE A WAKE' a steam launch tale
Post by: derekwarner on May 24, 2016, 03:27:44 AM
Yes Ramon,.....certainly the factor of safety will not be compromised with the bolted elements in the valve or cylinder covers  :facepalm:

With respect to the de-oiler, I should really desist to the experience of George [Thompson] or his fellow Countryman Sandy [Campbell]

Many years ago, Sandy produced my boiler & de-oiler and from memory our discussions centred around a nominal 1/10 actual volume ratio between the de-oilier to the boiler and also the de-oiler internal construction to create a swirling action

Naturally also of keeping with full size attributes in the exhaust piping as short as possible with smooth bends as opposed to 90 degree fittings ....lagging the model exhaust pipe spools from the engine to the de-oiler will technically assist as will also look the part  :ThumbsUp:

Derek
Title: Re: 'WIDE A WAKE' a steam launch tale
Post by: 10KPete on May 24, 2016, 03:28:48 AM
Very nice Ramon,

Among other things I like the extra hardware on the steam chest and cylinder covers; it makes is look so much more like it's full sized counterpart.

Dave

My thoughts exactly! That is something that is lacking on many models....

Pete
Title: Re: 'WIDE A WAKE' a steam launch tale
Post by: Steamer5 on May 24, 2016, 11:11:24 AM
Hi Ramon,
 The engine is looking good, like Zee hanging out to see it in the boat & her steaming around.

A couple of years back I had the pleasure of looking at this one......a teaser maybe?

Cheers Kerrin
Title: Re: 'WIDE A WAKE' a steam launch tale
Post by: K.B.C on May 24, 2016, 11:57:50 AM
Hi Ramon,

The engine looks really great, but contrary to all others I think that you have over killed the bolt holes on the steam chest , 4- up x 3- across would look better and more to scale, if I can suggest that if the bolts are 7 b.a. that you take some 8 b.a. nuts and tap them 7 b.a.

I do like your idea of the grub screws in the eccentrics and will try that out next time that I do a twin with reverse.
Your workmanship throught the build has been superbe and it's an inspiration for me to try harder in my machining work.

Here is a sketch of an oil seperator / boiler feed water heater  using the exhaust steam to heat the boiler feed, at the end of the day all you require to empty the tank is to shut off the exhaust to the funnel and open the bottom drain, run the engine and it will pump out any oil collected in the tank, you can make itVertical or Horizontal using 5/32" dia pipe.
With the online lubricator that you have fitted all that is required is that you open the needle valve just a crack  and if the exhaust condensate is a milky colour that is all that's required.

Derek,
There is no "P" in Thomson, just for future ref.

George.
Title: Re: 'WIDE A WAKE' a steam launch tale
Post by: DTR on May 24, 2016, 01:09:34 PM
Beautiful work, Ramon
Title: Re: 'WIDE A WAKE' a steam launch tale
Post by: steamer on May 24, 2016, 01:16:03 PM
Excellent work Ramon!!!

Dave
Title: Re: 'WIDE A WAKE' a steam launch tale
Post by: Johno on May 24, 2016, 06:58:46 PM
Ramon,

What lovely work!

Really liked the use of employing a fixture to get pipework lengths right, such a simple and elegant solution to something that I have had difficulty with. It's the sharing of such things that is of great value when being a part of the "community".

Ian   
Title: Re: 'WIDE A WAKE' a steam launch tale
Post by: Ramon on May 24, 2016, 09:10:30 PM
Hello Guys - many thanks indeed for all your kind comments and remarks - all much appreciated I assure you  :)

With regard to the number of bolts on the steam chest and head, yes, it was my hope that it would look more scale like however I have to totally concur with my friend George in that they are a bit on the 'heavy side'. However the number per side was based on them not clashing with other holes so 4 x 3 was out I'm afraid George. They are 7BA - the smallest stud that EKP does but in hindsight they would have been much better had they have been 8BA with 9BA size nuts (Thanks for the suggestion but they are 8BA nuts already  ::)). I've been considering resizing the ends of the studs to 8BA - not sure how that will work out visually but I'll see.

Thanks for your input on the 'de-oiler' Derek - as you see George has provided a drawing and I owe Sandy an email so must contact him sooner rather than later. I'm not so sure I can go to 1/10 - it's a biggish boiler and theres little room for anything that size but I'll try to get it as large as I can. I fear it may have to be horizontal and lay beside the boiler to get maximum volume. Thanks too for your kind offer of the pump casting this evening George - I'll reply later.  I wasn't sure about lagging the exhaust but will take your advice Derek - :ThumbsUp:

Thanks for the pic Kerrin - it reminds me I have yet to make the gratings   ;)

DTR - although it's just a few words my thanks for taking the time to post. It's always good to hear from a 'new face' and likewise you too Ian. I'm very pleased to think you have gained something and it's even more pleasing to hear so.

Well guys I've spent the day having a major clean up of the workshop. It will be about four or five weeks before I can get back onto the final leg so in the meantime enjoy your modelling too - what ever direction it takes you in.

'See you soon'

Kind regards - Ramon
Title: Re: 'WIDE A WAKE' a steam launch tale
Post by: K.B.C on May 25, 2016, 08:17:45 AM
Hi Ramon,

Regarding the bolt fixings on the steam chests, I would leave them as they are, I can see that if they were 4- up and 3- across they would clash with the weigh shaft bracket and the valve rod in the centre.  It would probably matter to a die hard Stuart enthusiest but as your engine is  non standard based on the "D10".
The Stuart weigh shaft brackets ar bolted on to the face of the steam chest cover and need to be bolted up with packers when the cover is removed to allow valve adjustment, where your brackets are is a much better idea as the brackets need not be removed for adjusting the valve settings.

You will not need a large tank for the oil seperator as the slide valve engine with the needle control on the Lubricator you can finely control the oil to the engine and if you don't have the ability to heat the boiler feed water you can incorporate a coil as prer my drawing by winding 5/32" copper pipe around a 3/4" dia rod which allows you to fit it into a 1.25" bore copper pipe and arrange the inlet and out let  for a horizontal unit.
The need for a 1/10 size tank occures when you use a straight thro' lubricator without any means of controlling the oil to the engine, most steam plants with  Oscillating engines are fitted with lubricators that don't have a needle to control the oil flow to the engine hence this gulping effect and too much oil is used.

George.
Title: Re: 'WIDE A WAKE' a steam launch tale
Post by: Ramon on May 25, 2016, 10:04:41 AM
Hello George - thanks for your input here  :ThumbsUp:

I am in the dark as far as this oil separator is concerned having never used one before. My thinking about using one has been based purely on concern of not putting oil and steam up the funnel and polluting the pond water.

The set up I have (so far) is to bring cold water from the tanks straight to the pumps and then send it through a coil set inside the rear of the flue tube (economiser?) before entering the boiler. I have always been under the impression (perhaps misguided) that pumps work best if the water is cold. I take it from what you are saying that it would be a good idea to pre heat it as you suggest via the separator before it gets to the pumps?

Given the action of this separator how much does it act as a condenser as I'm thinking it would have to be of reasonable volume to cater for condensate as well? I can see if it's a horizontal one that the off take would need to be set in some kind of dome as movement of the condensate could easily cover the outlet at times with the motion of the boat.

It looks like I'm going to have to add making some valves to the 'to do' list too  :D

Thanks again,
Regards - Ramon
Title: Re: 'WIDE A WAKE' a steam launch tale
Post by: K.B.C on May 25, 2016, 11:01:49 AM
Ramon,
As you already have an economiser ( feed water heater ) built into your boiler  you don't need the coil as shown on my sketch, if you had to use my drawing you would bring the cold water from your tank or from the lake to the pump and then into the coil with the exhaust being used to heat the water..

All that you need to do is make an tank from a copper tube and if vertical take your exhaust steam into the tank at a tangent and the steam will condense with the oil dropping to the bottom of the tank which can be pumped out at the end of your run by blocking off the steam to the funnel and the engine exhaust will pump out the residue oil.

I keep stressing that your engine having a slide valve and an on line lubricator with a needle valve you only need a minimum of oil to the engine by adjusting the needle valve on your lubricator,
the residue pumped out should be a milky colour with very little oil droplets in it, if there is a lot of oil you are using too much , the needle valve only needs to be openned a crack.
I have seen many models with the residue  more or less straight oil and this mainly is in Oscillation engines with a lubricator that doesn't have a needle control valve.

George.

Title: Re: 'WIDE A WAKE' a steam launch tale
Post by: Jo on May 25, 2016, 11:24:35 AM
I can confirm that the feed water heater on my Clayton acts a very effective condenser   :(

Jo
Title: Re: 'WIDE A WAKE' a steam launch tale
Post by: Ramon on May 25, 2016, 06:47:22 PM
Hi again George - thanks for that  :ThumbsUp:

I take on board what you are saying about the oil and will monitor it closely when the time comes (which is not too long now ;))

I'm not quite sure which mode to go for (vertical or horizontal) - I'll wait until I get the engine and boiler back in the boat to see what suits it best - there's not much room for either without spoiling the looks though.

Thanks Jo - I'll bear that in mind

Regards - Ramon

Title: Re: 'WIDE A WAKE' a steam launch tale
Post by: joe d on May 25, 2016, 08:11:48 PM
Ramon

Still following along, and much enjoying it!

Joe
Title: Re: 'WIDE A WAKE' a steam launch tale
Post by: derekwarner on May 26, 2016, 12:02:41 AM
Ramon.....I acknowledge we have been down the path that fixed orifice lubricators may consume more oil than is necessary, however somewhere we need to balance the understanding that the engine is getting sufficient oil

As a trade off, I have chosen a quartz tubed lubricator [fixed orifice] which clearly provides a visual on the oil to condensate level at a glance. They are now also available with the metering adjustment ..............

The image below is filled with Grade 460 steam oil which looks like pea soup, however the morning sunlight changes that.........

PS......I have had the displeasure of seeing the internals of a 5" gauge seized steam engine :Mad:, yes ...due to insufficient lubrication

Derek
Title: Re: 'WIDE A WAKE' a steam launch tale
Post by: Ramon on May 26, 2016, 09:04:25 AM
Hi guys - nice to hear from you Joe - glad you are enjoying the journey  ;)

That's a very nice little lubricator you have there Derek - I have wondered whether to go to something similar and try to make one but it's yet one more thing to make and time is pressing.

Unlike yourself and George I don't have a great deal of experience in running engines on steam other than my old Twin Victoria set up. That ran at shows  (about three per year) for something like twelve years without a lubricator. I would just inject a good slug of steam oil in the manifold (where a lubricator was intended to go) and let it run. I found I would need to do that about three times throughout the day. Not ideal perhaps but it did work. The first time I ran it on steam I just cleaned it down and left it only to find it the next time some months later that it was very stiff to turn over. Stripped down revealed rusty cylinders to blame but they cleaned up well enough. This had bronze pistons - I can't remember whether it had PTFE or graphite yarn packing. From that point on once home at the end of the day the engine would be run on air with more injected steam oil to displace any condensate and hopefully coat the internals. Again maybe not ideal but it did work as the problem never occurred again. Finally, after about ten years I gave up running on steam as it demanded too much attention throughout the day - running it on air was much more relaxing and allowed more time to enjoy what else was going on. I would still inject a slug of steam oil and still to this day do the same with the Waller and Double Diagonal - never ever had any cylinder problems with those either - again cast iron cylinders with bronze pistons but with PTFE packing.

The Double 10 of course will get a good working so lubrication is obviously going to have to be more controlled - I confess my interest in running it on an ongoing basis doesn't have the appeal it once did and if that continues it may not see much (regular) water time but I agree it's a detail that does require proper consideration.

As always thanks for your interest - I do appreciate this kind of observation and input from both of you  :)

I'm off out now to show the engine to my good friend Gordon who's unable to get over here these days as well as a chance to visit my old works which is close by - even more  :).

Kind regards - Ramon
Title: Re: 'WIDE A WAKE' a steam launch tale
Post by: K.B.C on May 26, 2016, 12:14:00 PM
Hi Ramon,
The online lubricator  made by Stuart is sufficient for your engine, these lubricators have been made and recommended by Stuart ever since Mr Stuart Turner formed the company way back in the year dot.
Myself and other club members have used these lubricators since we started on steam powered model boats and and to date in Scotland and many steam boat rallys down south we have never come across a seized engine due to lack of oil but have sean many occasions of the over use of steam oil.

These lubricators can be tucked away into the side of the engine and as you will find that space will be at a premiun in a steam plant installed in a model boat.
The only thing that you may have to do as the Lubricator is so near the engine is to fit Ali washers between the Lubricator and the engine manifold to act as heat sinks to allow the steam in the lubricator to condence and then push the oil into the engine by the displacement action of the steam condencing to water and displacing the oil.

The type of lubricator that Derek has shown is primarily for Loco's  and Derek I am sure that you will find when you build a boat and install your steam plant that you may run out of space, that is if you ever get around to building a boat !!!!!!!

Ramon stick to the Stuart lubricator it will do the job admirably and always remember that you will get different results running on the bench with steam when the engine is not working than you will get in the water under load.

George
Title: Re: 'WIDE A WAKE' a steam launch tale
Post by: steamer on May 26, 2016, 01:46:27 PM
Hi guys - nice to hear from you Joe - glad you are enjoying the journey  ;)

That's a very nice little lubricator you have there Derek - I have wondered whether to go to something similar and try to make one but it's yet one more thing to make and time is pressing.

Unlike yourself and George I don't have a great deal of experience in running engines on steam other than my old Twin Victoria set up. That ran at shows  (about three per year) for something like twelve years without a lubricator. I would just inject a good slug of steam oil in the manifold (where a lubricator was intended to go) and let it run. I found I would need to do that about three times throughout the day. Not ideal perhaps but it did work. The first time I ran it on steam I just cleaned it down and left it only to find it the next time some months later that it was very stiff to turn over. Stripped down revealed rusty cylinders to blame but they cleaned up well enough. This had bronze pistons - I can't remember whether it had PTFE or graphite yarn packing. From that point on once home at the end of the day the engine would be run on air with more injected steam oil to displace any condensate and hopefully coat the internals. Again maybe not ideal but it did work as the problem never occurred again. Finally, after about ten years I gave up running on steam as it demanded too much attention throughout the day - running it on air was much more relaxing and allowed more time to enjoy what else was going on. I would still inject a slug of steam oil and still to this day do the same with the Waller and Double Diagonal - never ever had any cylinder problems with those either - again cast iron cylinders with bronze pistons but with PTFE packing.

The Double 10 of course will get a good working so lubrication is obviously going to have to be more controlled - I confess my interest in running it on an ongoing basis doesn't have the appeal it once did and if that continues it may not see much (regular) water time but I agree it's a detail that does require proper consideration.

As always thanks for your interest - I do appreciate this kind of observation and input from both of you  :)

I'm off out now to show the engine to my good friend Gordon who's unable to get over here these days as well as a chance to visit my old works which is close by - even more  :).

Kind regards - Ramon

Hi Ramon,  a small displacement lubricator will work very well.   These engines aren't pushed too hard, and I suspect you will be running saturated steam, so the internal lubrication requirements aren't terribly stringent.   A little dab will do you.

Sabino's 75 HP compound running 15 hours a day got three squirts from the oil can into the HP condensate valve a day.  That is the extent of internal lubrication.      Cylinders and Pistons look like glass at the end of the running season.

A slide valve engine will require a bit more lubrication....
 

Dave
Title: Re: 'WIDE A WAKE' a steam launch tale
Post by: K.B.C on May 26, 2016, 08:36:24 PM
Hi Dave,
Your post today gives a mention of "Sabino's " 75 H.P. engine which rang a bell in my old gray matter about a model build of a "Sabino " boat and I have found this on ModelBoatMayhem ( http://www.modelboatmayhem.co.uk/forum/index.php/topic,46169.0.html ) .
Did you know about this ?
Any connection by you ?

Have a read at the build, it's very interesting.

I totally agree with you on the amount of oil used in a steam engine as to how little it needs.

There has been several questions over the years asking what can be done about the amount of oil carried over in the exhaust and into the container and can it be reused.
These questions have always had the reply of " you are using too much oil " and when asked what type of engine the answer has been " it's an Oscillating engine.
On further questioning it's been found that they have been using a straight thro' lubricator without a control needle to metre the oil and the engine has taking a gulps of oil and emptied the lubricator but the engine still ran as they were running on wet steam from the boiler.

George.
Title: Re: 'WIDE A WAKE' a steam launch tale
Post by: steamer on May 26, 2016, 08:39:53 PM
Sorry George....I only worked on the 12" to the foot one,   not the model.

But I'll read up!

Dave
Title: Re: 'WIDE A WAKE' a steam launch tale
Post by: K.B.C on May 27, 2016, 12:03:48 AM
Dave ,
Don't think that I was explicit enough in my question, I didn't mean the model I just wondered if you had a connection to the 12"-to 1ft vessal and your post has answered that.

Many thanks
George.
Title: Re: 'WIDE A WAKE' a steam launch tale
Post by: crueby on May 27, 2016, 01:21:51 AM
Speaking of the Sabino, if you go to the seaports site you can follow the rebuild they are doing. Only big issue is money for the boiler, they may not have it running for a while waiting for more money. Anyone want to make a really BIG model boiler?!

http://www.mysticseaport.org/shipyard/

Sorry for the side trip, back to your wonderful model!!
Title: Re: 'WIDE A WAKE' a steam launch tale
Post by: Ramon on July 05, 2016, 11:11:43 PM
Hi Guys, apologies for the delay but it's been a nice break  :)

Well, the 'plastic distraction' has reached it's conclusion for the time being so now it's time to get back on this and see it through.

The boat was brought back into the workshop today and time spent assessing what needs to be done. First off is to make a regulator for the engine and get it coupled up to the boiler then make the pumps. Pretty basic stuff so I won't post anything in detail on that progress just the odd update on progress.

Bearing in mind those previous requests however the first thing I did do was to have another go at a short video - short indeed but enough to give you an idea of how it runs. You can hear the knocking quite clearly - I can't quite trace it specifically but I'm sure it must be those bearings. The air pressure was set to 20 psi so it should have more than enough power at 60 psi of steam.
eZK4BVlt5II
That's it then - it's back on the bench, work is underway  :)

Regards - Ramon
Title: Re: 'WIDE A WAKE' a steam launch tale
Post by: Don1966 on July 06, 2016, 01:29:12 AM
That's just awesome Ramon and a beautiful job. After watching the video and listening to the knock, it sounds like the back connecting rod is hitting the side of the frame facing the camera. At least that's my observation.

Don
Title: Re: 'WIDE A WAKE' a steam launch tale
Post by: derekwarner on July 06, 2016, 03:20:50 AM
Amazingly smooth Ramon.........at about 60 RPM [@ 1:26 minutes] by my counting via the grub screw in the flywheel ....

My level of expertise dictates I should not offer a thought on the knock  :headscratch: ...however that does appear to be a cheapskate air metering device  :ShakeHead: in the video [Starrett tool makers clamp squashing the tube?]

We do look forward to the engine installation in the hull.....

Derek  :cheers:
Title: Re: 'WIDE A WAKE' a steam launch tale
Post by: Jasonb on July 06, 2016, 07:49:30 AM
Running nicely Ramon, look forward to seeing this one progress towards launch date.

Could it be a piston getting a bit too close to a cylinder cover?
Title: Re: 'WIDE A WAKE' a steam launch tale
Post by: Ramon on July 06, 2016, 11:38:25 AM
Hi guys - thanks for looking in  :)

Tsk Tsk Derek - cheapskate indeed  :o I'll have you know that is a carefully designed rotary operated, pincer movement, infinitely variable, silicone based pressure control device of the finest calibre - just awkward to connect a servo too. BTW That grub screw hole is from it's previous life - it's due for filling in and re-surfacing

Don,  if there is one area were I thought it was coming from it is as you suggest but though the clearance is minimal I have checked it whilst running with cigarette paper and I am absolutely satisfied it's not there. Same with your suggestion Jason - the crankshaft turns by hand through 360 without a hint of a tight spot and I did allow a mm of clearance at both ends.

Thanks for your thoughts though - much appreciated  :ThumbsUp:

Been making the engine regulator parts this morning  :)

Regards - Ramon
Title: Re: 'WIDE A WAKE' a steam launch tale
Post by: derekwarner on July 06, 2016, 12:33:34 PM
Ramon...

Whilst I am often questioned for suggesting the use of technically inexpensive electronic equipment associated with our model steam projects, you could always revert to an also inexpensive version of a sonoscope...being a 6" screwdriver plugged against the middle outer lobe of your earhole :shrug:....and the other end carefully positioned on varying surfaces of the components of the engine and listening for the.....  :Director: source of the sound......the lower the rotational speed, the greater the perception and understanding will be

I would be surprised if you could not identify the source of the sound by such a simple but  :happyreader: well proven method

Derek

Title: Re: 'WIDE A WAKE' a steam launch tale
Post by: Ramon on July 06, 2016, 01:15:24 PM
Ah Derek, I do indeed have a drawer full of such technical 'stethoscopes' but not one of them can detect the location of this irritating knock - Straight end, Phillips, even Ball Nose but not so much as an indication :-\ - yep - tried that but no result  ::)

Believe me I have gone through everything short of isolating each cylinder from the other. I'm convinced it's the big end bearings but can't be 100% certain. Plan is to make new ones anyway then I will try one cylinder at a time. As you can see it runs very slowly - it has not a hint of a tight spot nor a wring so at this stage it is a tad perplexing.

As always thanks for your input :ThumbsUp:

Regards - Ramon
Title: Re: 'WIDE A WAKE' a steam launch tale
Post by: crueby on July 06, 2016, 02:04:57 PM
If its the big end bearings, seems like you would feel the movement if you grab the conrod and pull up and down.
Any chance it is the small end cross pin?
Title: Re: 'WIDE A WAKE' a steam launch tale
Post by: K.B.C on July 06, 2016, 04:30:21 PM
Ah Derek, I do indeed have a drawer full of such technical 'stethoscopes' but not one of them can detect the location of this irritating knock - Straight end, Phillips, even Ball Nose but not so much as an indication :-\ - yep - tried that but no result  ::)

Believe me I have gone through everything short of isolating each cylinder from the other. I'm convinced it's the big end bearings but can't be 100% certain. Plan is to make new ones anyway then I will try one cylinder at a time. As you can see it runs very slowly - it has not a hint of a tight spot nor a wring so at this stage it is a tad perplexing.

As always thanks for your input :ThumbsUp:

Regards - Ramon

Ah Derek, I do indeed have a drawer full of such technical 'stethoscopes' but not one of them can detect the location of this irritating knock - Straight end, Phillips, even Ball Nose but not so much as an indication :-\ - yep - tried that but no result  ::)

Believe me I have gone through everything short of isolating each cylinder from the other. I'm convinced it's the big end bearings but can't be 100% certain. Plan is to make new ones anyway then I will try one cylinder at a time. As you can see it runs very slowly - it has not a hint of a tight spot nor a wring so at this stage it is a tad perplexing.

As always thanks for your input :ThumbsUp:

Regards - Ramon

Ramon,
There is nothing more irirtating than a knock that you can't decipher where it's coming from, over the years I"ve been there and know how hard it is to find the knock.

In my fault finding experience I have to agree with Don and Jason but you have checked out Dons input although could it be that when running the Fag paper clearance , abouy .002" may not be enough as the centrifugal force of the big ends and suspected worn bearings could cause the knock, although there would be a scuff mark if it was hitting there.
Another scource of knocking is the central bearing, if it wasn't properly fitted and the bottom half loose it could be the scource, on Stuarts drawing it calls for a 3/32" pin to hold the bottom half, on all of the Stuart builds that I have done I fit a 6 ba grub screw coming up from the underside ( pic included ) to hold the 2-halves together, the pic is of a Stuart Score that I am working on at present.

I see that you have checked Jason's suggestion but a few years ago a friend 's D10 started an infernal knocking and eventually stopped running, on examination it was found that the piston had unscrewed and was hitting to underside of the top cover, worth a check !!!!
Since then I always drill 2- holes in the piston which allows the use of an adjusting tool to take the piston s out without a complete dismantle.

Even if the bearings were worn I don't think that the knock would be there at such low revs that your engine acheives.

Knowing your workmanship if you had made the bearings the knock wouldn't be there, don't be dishartened and leave the knock there, you will eventualy find it.

Super job of the engine and just shows that you don't need fancy gear to control the air/steam, even a clothes peg would sufice.

George.
Title: Re: 'WIDE A WAKE' a steam launch tale
Post by: Admiral_dk on July 06, 2016, 09:42:33 PM
It sounds and looks as if the crank is always in the same position when it knocks - if you can figure exactly where, that might point you to the culprit (or the few possible at that point).

Good luck hunting it down.

Per
Title: Re: 'WIDE A WAKE' a steam launch tale
Post by: Ramon on July 06, 2016, 10:14:04 PM
Hello George and Chris - good to hear from you and thanks for your input :)

The cross head pin is new, heat treated and fitted to a new crosshead with new top half con-rods so I'm pretty confident there's no slack there to speak of, and yes Chris I have tried what you suggest too  ;). The original big ends used appeared a good fit perpendicular to the crank pin but are able to be rocked from side to side - fore and aft that is. I have a sneaking feeling that this is where the problem lies

It could be the piston moving so I will check that in due course (Pistons have a semi circular slot in them for the same reason as your pin holes George)

On reassembly I checked the crankshaft bearings for any slop and these were very good, however I'm pleased you made the comment about that centre bearing as it is something that I had not considered as possibly a cause. When I dis-assembled the engine I found a very thin shim under one side of the centre bearing top flange but this was left out on assembly to see just how tight the shaft would be without it. Much to my surprise with all three bearings bolted down tight the shaft spins freely between fingers without slop or any tight spots. The lower part of the centre bearing sits over a screw in peg which prevents rotary movement but there's no immediate way to tell if it is loose ie not actually in contact with the shaft - I'll now check this out too.

At this point in time it is not causing a problem but more an annoying characteristic and only then mainly because of not being able to find the source. I remember when the Waller first ran there was a similar knock which took some time to source - ears and screwdrivers certainly came into play then Derek  ;) - but in the end I noticed the shaft had a very slight sideways oscillation in it's bearings - the heights of the two bearing blocks were slightly out and a 2 thou shim cured not only the oscillation but the knock too.

We'll find it - you betcha!

Regards - Ramon

PS Per - your post has just come up as I previewed this. Thanks for your input too - I find something like this an enjoyable challenge even if mildly perplexing - if I do find and cure it then I shall be well pleased  :)


Title: Re: 'WIDE A WAKE' a steam launch tale
Post by: derekwarner on July 06, 2016, 11:35:27 PM
Ramon......just a few questions..& thoughts

1. is that JS Bach  :bandrock: being played quietly in the back ground during the initial tests?
2. did you close your eyes when using the screwdriver to the earlobe check?
3. can you slow the video speed down and determine the position of knock relative to the flywheel grub screw positioning?
4. the fact that you can turn the engine over without any perceived tight spot would suggest that neither piston is hitting at TDC, further if a piston had any vertical float you would expect the audible knock to occur both at TDC and BDC

Another possibility to pin point the area is to selectively wash & flood all lubricant from one [1] selected joint/journal only......re-flood with a more viscous goop & repeat the tests but only at that nominal 60 RPM speed...if OK, wash and refill with your standard grade bearing oil

From this you have 7 individual external areas to check via the same process

A further consideration could be to mount the engine securely to a robust steel bed, and with a magnetic based long probed dial indicator with hand rotation check for any eccentric indication

If all else fails.... :facepalm:..it would also be interesting to run the engine on a slow but extended steam trial [95 degrees C internals]...[as opposed to lubricated air @ 20 degrees C]


Derek
Title: Re: 'WIDE A WAKE' a steam launch tale
Post by: steamer on July 07, 2016, 12:24:11 PM
Derek's point about flooding with a heavy oil ...one at a time, is a very good one.   

Don't forget to check  the crossheads....always a possibility.

Dave


Title: Re: 'WIDE A WAKE' a steam launch tale
Post by: Ramon on July 07, 2016, 01:49:12 PM
Hi Derek, Dave, thanks for your continued interest in my 'knock'  :)

I'm afraid I can't quite remember what I had for 'breaky' this morning so whether I had my eyes closed is not confirmable  :ShakeHead:

I can't slow the video down either so that's that one out too  ::) I have however very carefully turned this engine over this morning and there is absolutely no for and aft movement of the crankshaft so I'm content that it does not emanate from that area. I'm still convinced it emanates from the big end bearings so my plan is to make new big ends anyway, (I confess I used the previous ones due to idleness on my part and the desire to quicken progress - obviously a wrong decision ::)) take a look at the lower centre bearing and absolutely check the piston clearance.  I'll obviously report back once all that's done - we'll just have to see how it pans out.

I think that about covers it - I'm off now to finish the regulator

Oh yes, the music was Corelli - one of 6 Concerti Grossi.

Regards for now and thanks again for your input - Ramon
Title: Re: 'WIDE A WAKE' a steam launch tale
Post by: fumopuc on July 07, 2016, 08:09:47 PM
Hi Ramon, a very smooth runner, it is a pleasure to watch the motion
Title: Re: 'WIDE A WAKE' a steam launch tale
Post by: Florian Eberhard on July 07, 2016, 08:29:29 PM
Hi Ramon

I also have a few ideas on how to locate the over-clearance:
To find out which cylinder it comes from, you can disconnect the valve rod from the excentric. Then you lock the crankshaft (by clamping a piece of wood on the front surface of the flywheel).
If you now supply only one of the cylinders with pressurized air, you can actuate the valve gear by hand and see if there is any sound. You may test at different positions of the crankshaft, at the dead centres, when the crankshaft is 90° to the dead centre and also 45° from the dead centres.

This way you should be able to find out if it is one of the piston rod bearings (or the pistons themselves). And also which piston rod then causes the "knock".
You may also use a dial indicator when changing load on the bearings (when you actuate the valve by hand), measuring the crankshaft, the piston rod, crosshead (vertical and sideways!!)

Cheers Florian
Title: Re: 'WIDE A WAKE' a steam launch tale
Post by: Maryak on July 07, 2016, 11:41:04 PM
IMHO, definitely in the LP, appears to be too "hard" for a big end, (would be as loose as all get out), although also appears to happen twice in a cycle. Don maybe on the right track.

Regards
Bob
Title: Re: 'WIDE A WAKE' a steam launch tale
Post by: Ramon on July 08, 2016, 08:40:51 AM
Thanks Achim, Florian and Bob, your  comments and input are appreciated and noted  ;)

Bob, if you are referring to an LP cylinder,  it's not a compound- both are the same size. If not, what do you mean by 'LP'

Regards - Ramon

Title: Re: 'WIDE A WAKE' a steam launch tale
Post by: K.B.C on July 08, 2016, 12:05:35 PM
Hi Ramon

I also have a few ideas on how to locate the over-clearance:
To find out which cylinder it comes from, you can disconnect the valve rod from the excentric. Then you lock the crankshaft (by clamping a piece of wood on the front surface of the flywheel).
If you now supply only one of the cylinders with pressurized air, you can actuate the valve gear by hand and see if there is any sound. You may test at different positions of the crankshaft, at the dead centres, when the crankshaft is 90° to the dead centre and also 45° from the dead centres.

This way you should be able to find out if it is one of the piston rod bearings (or the pistons themselves). And also which piston rod then causes the "knock".
You may also use a dial indicator when changing load on the bearings (when you actuate the valve by hand), measuring the crankshaft, the piston rod, crosshead (vertical and sideways!!)

Cheers Florian

Florian,

I have thought about your suggestions over the last 24 hours on finding the knock when Ramon's engine is running but for the life of me I can't figure out your theory.
Yes you can disengage the valve rod from the quadrant and operate by hand but as the knock comes when the engine is running how can you find it when you have locked the main shaft ?

George.
Title: Re: 'WIDE A WAKE' a steam launch tale
Post by: Florian Eberhard on July 08, 2016, 12:40:47 PM
Hi George

Well, if the source for that knock is a change of load, it should also happen when the crankshaft does not turn.
And by checking at different positions of the crankshaft, you should be able to locate the problem - or at least to find out which cylinder is the cause of that noise.
If there is no sound when the engine is not running, then I can't imagine any reason for that sound (at least right now, when I don't have the engine in front of me)

Florian
Title: Re: 'WIDE A WAKE' a steam launch tale
Post by: K.B.C on July 08, 2016, 09:13:20 PM
Hi George

Well, if the source for that knock is a change of load, it should also happen when the crankshaft does not turn.
And by checking at different positions of the crankshaft, you should be able to locate the problem - or at least to find out which cylinder is the cause of that noise.
If there is no sound when the engine is not running, then I can't imagine any reason for that sound (at least right now, when I don't have the engine in front of me)

Florian

Hi Florian,
Thanks for that, I have never considerd your method but shall take it on board and could use it in the future.
I see what you mean and if there was any wear in the bearings or the big ends the minute movement could be found with your method.

Regards
George.
Title: Re: 'WIDE A WAKE' a steam launch tale
Post by: Maryak on July 09, 2016, 01:27:21 AM

Bob, if you are referring to an LP cylinder,  it's not a compound- both are the same size. If not, what do you mean by 'LP'

Regards - Ramon

Ah the joys of old age, approaching blindness and a lack of perspective! OK, I mean the cylinder and associated bits nearer to; the camera or put another way, me as the viewer, (flywheel end).

Regards
Bob
Title: Re: 'WIDE A WAKE' a steam launch tale
Post by: Rustkolector on July 09, 2016, 05:33:05 AM
Ramon,
Just an observation of mine, but  I have heard that knock before. It is in a Rudy's twin compound that I built many years ago. I never spent much time looking for it as I had no intended use for the engine. I have also heard it in quite a few other twin cylinder steam engines at shows running on air. They all had reversing linkage. I have never heard the knock in twins without reverse. I'd try the heavy oil idea.

Jeff
Title: Re: 'WIDE A WAKE' a steam launch tale
Post by: Ramon on July 10, 2016, 01:48:06 PM
Ah the joys of old age, approaching blindness and a lack of perspective! OK, I mean the cylinder and associated bits nearer to; the camera or put another way, me as the viewer, (flywheel end).

Ah Bob - tell me about it  :old: definitely getting that way by the day  ::)

Jeff - thanks for you thoughts. The reversing gear has very little slop it it and works very smoothly as you can see in the video. However this knock does sound as if something is hitting rather than a loose part as Don first suggested but I simply can't find any evidence of that.

I'm working on the pumps at the moment - hand pump is done and plumbed, now about to start the mechanical one. Once that is done I'll strip the engine and make new bearings and start from there.

Many thanks again

Regards - Ramon

Title: Re: 'WIDE A WAKE' a steam launch tale
Post by: Rustkolector on July 10, 2016, 05:38:47 PM
Ramon,
The heavy weight oil idea is a good one for chasing down noises. I can confirm from experience that 90 wt gear oil will silence a loose fitting bearing or linkage, at least for awhile. It is more expedient to find and then fix the specific noisemaker. Also, the fine grade Timesaver non embedding lapping compound makes a very nice fitting and smooth running bearing.

Jeff
Title: Re: 'WIDE A WAKE' a steam launch tale
Post by: Ramon on July 10, 2016, 06:31:39 PM
Hi Jeff -
Yes, agreed, I would much rather trace the source and fix it but it's going to have to wait a bit at the mo. I don't have any heavy oil other than steam oil to see - I guess I could try that but I'm set on new ones now. Re the Timesaver - 'I wish' - I  am aware of it's attributes and looked in to getting some previously but the expenditure for the minimum that can be bought isn't really justifiable now, particularly when half a teaspoonful would probably 'see me out'   ;)

Thanks for the thought though  ;)

Regards - Ramon
Title: Re: 'WIDE A WAKE' a steam launch tale
Post by: crueby on July 10, 2016, 08:09:57 PM
Hi Jeff -
Yes, agreed, I would much rather trace the source and fix it but it's going to have to wait a bit at the mo. I don't have any heavy oil other than steam oil to see - I guess I could try that but I'm set on new ones now. Re the Timesaver - 'I wish' - I  am aware of it's attributes and looked in to getting some previously but the expenditure for the minimum that can be bought isn't really justifiable now, particularly when half a teaspoonful would probably 'see me out'   ;)

Thanks for the thought though  ;)

Regards - Ramon
I bought thier sampler pack, a small tin of each grit in one box. Much cheaper, still all I'll ever need unless I spill it. Or sneeze while tin is open.
Title: Re: 'WIDE A WAKE' a steam launch tale
Post by: Ramon on July 15, 2016, 09:58:20 PM
Hi Guys - just in case y'all thought I'd snuck off back to the plastic here's a short update  :).

Progress is ongoing and both pumps and the throttle are now made along with the drive shaft support. The throttle works well on air but how it will perform on steam remains to be seen - it's a stainless barrel in a bronze outer.
The engine driven pump is new, fabricated from gunmetal ('cast bronze') bar with the base and the support out of brass. The 6mm ram was turned from stainless and fitted with two O rings. I'm not sure how well it will perform without a guide though.
(https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-qvM2h_bGXzg/V4lHqsSnmzI/AAAAAAAAO4Q/cud3lpce8O4H468UX2AgZ9pasynuqkUdACCo/s800/DSCF9421.JPG)

The drive support was milled from a block of ali, line drilled on the mill without any alignment problems. Reducing that expensive worm was a mite anxiety inducing but machined with ease - with a 'minimal width' parting tool I even managed to save the off-cut for a spare  :D
(https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-Jz_93U3VfmE/V4lHqSZzz_I/AAAAAAAAO4M/47Qg87adtm4t7A52eairp0Rj4rVV5YDewCCo/s800/DSCF9423.JPG)

Doesn't seem like much but here's the result of a couple of weeks worth input. The hand pump was made many years back but still worked fine - I used it in fact to pressure test the gas tank to 300 psi as it had a small 6mm bore. It was stripped and re-bored to 8mm and a new ram made, again fitted with an O ring. The keen eyed will no doubt see it needs a new pin for the wider shaft  ;)
(https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-xHt-LFG-yr4/V4lHOpdDykI/AAAAAAAAO4c/HM43sAUJ7KAJCKxzrxZZ4II8vAcGdoJPgCCo/s800/DSCF9425.JPG)

Busy weekend ahead so not likely to see the workshop till Monday - just the conrod for the pump to make and bolt it all in situ for a test then it's get to grips with those new bearings and locate that knock.

'See you soon' with a further update - thanks for looking in

Regards - Ramon
Title: Re: 'WIDE A WAKE' a steam launch tale
Post by: bruedney on July 15, 2016, 10:11:32 PM
That all looks amazing Ramon

I would be very interested to know how you milled the drive support base from a solid block. it looks cast.

 :popcorn:

Bruce
Title: Re: 'WIDE A WAKE' a steam launch tale
Post by: b.lindsey on July 16, 2016, 01:26:59 AM
Is it Monday yet??  Very nice update Ramon! Love the cast finishes too.

Bill
Title: Re: 'WIDE A WAKE' a steam launch tale
Post by: derekwarner on July 16, 2016, 02:32:57 AM
 :facepalm:......looks superb Ramon.......the simulated casting finish as you have explained before is again very effective......& the spot facings on base plate mounting holes :naughty:

The two tube blanks in the lower boiler firebox, are they for a dryer :Mad: heater at some later stage/date?

Derek
Title: Re: 'WIDE A WAKE' a steam launch tale
Post by: Jasonb on July 16, 2016, 07:37:19 AM
Can't be long 'til launch date :)

The bead blaster does clean up the fabrications and ali bits nicely.

J
Title: Re: 'WIDE A WAKE' a steam launch tale
Post by: zeeprogrammer on July 16, 2016, 12:15:37 PM
That is a real beauty. Great pictures!
And awesome work!  :ThumbsUp:
Title: Re: 'WIDE A WAKE' a steam launch tale
Post by: fumopuc on July 16, 2016, 06:36:33 PM
Hi Ramon, very nicely done. I like it.
Title: Re: 'WIDE A WAKE' a steam launch tale
Post by: Ramon on July 17, 2016, 11:18:52 PM
Hi guys good to hear from you as usual  :)

Bruce - I'm afraid I didn't take any 'in progress' pics of this pump work but the 'casting' began as a rectangular block milled to external size. It was laid on it's side in the vise and milled on each side to leave the central portion . The cut outs between the pedestals were then milled and de-burred. It was then stood on it's end against an angle plate bolted to the table and line drilled and reamed through for the bearings which are turned from gun metal. The end webs were then milled and finally the holes drilled and spot-faced before finishing in the bead blaster.

Derek , I guess you missed this before (page 17) but the two fittings are indeed for heating the feed water inside the flue tube - it's just a short coil of copper tube. That central hex bar is there to mount a stainless disc on to help prevent any over heating
(https://lh4.googleusercontent.com/-Qm_GDXI3KHs/U-PZ86DtBlI/AAAAAAAAJu0/0zc4A1pLA4U/s912/DSCF5194.JPG)

Jason - the way it's going that could be sooner than anticipated though I'm still working toward a September launching  :)

Thanks for all your kind comments

Regards - Ramon

Title: Re: 'WIDE A WAKE' a steam launch tale
Post by: Ramon on July 21, 2016, 11:20:20 PM
Hi guys - another quick update (not many left to do now though)

Well, pleased to tell, making new bearings was exceedingly worthwhile  :) To paraphrase a certain well loved sketch 'this 'nock 'as gone - it 'as ceased to be - in fact it's bloody disappeared  ;D

With the pumps stripped and set aside for painting I stripped the engine down and took a good look at that bottom end. The shaft was as originally thought - very firm in it's bearings with no end float nor hint of tight spot/wringing. The lower centre bearing was also firm and in good contact but, as thought, those original big ends were not as good as they could have been. New ones were made from a piece of the ever diminishing bar of manganese bronze and duly fitted. Lapped in with some 1000 grit and carefully cleaned they proved a vast improvement on the previous ones - the word 'haste, speed, more and less' spring immediately to mind  ::)

This is as finish milled and bolted up for a test fit. Though the two halves are soft soldered together they are not split apart at this stage (nor cleaned either  ::))
(https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-lQxSVnBcKkM/V5E0BuFHPrI/AAAAAAAAO48/x11u6Al_PlQu6EW4tCg1LImJMO2I4dQCACCo/s800/DSCF9435.JPG)

Once split, the faces cleaned and bolted back up the reamer was run through again to true the hole and, as said, they were then lapped to the crank pins with 1000 grit. With these carefully cleaned the engine was re-assembled along with the pumps and drive unit. All bolted in place and at last a test run could be made - one big improvement I'm sure you'll agree  :)

EZGZ1uONCaw
Apart from a gas regulator to make, and some plumbing of course that actually brings the mechanical side of this to an end and the plant, at last, is now ready to fit
(https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-MWifKvSOVjc/V5E0BxeJ7zI/AAAAAAAAO5A/aYXy4_4PUXwsVS9-CVo-m29LsNTKnoOZgCCo/s800/DSCF9440.JPG)

There are still a few things to do however but getting it wet is getting decidedly close ;)

Regards - Ramon



Title: Re: 'WIDE A WAKE' a steam launch tale
Post by: derekwarner on July 21, 2016, 11:36:58 PM
Well you must be pleased Ramon to know your knock is gone :ThumbsUp:

We also see a little entrained air in the pump discharge line........but that will soon disapear

Now the question is the background music [certainly not Corelli] it does bring a certain memory of a smallish orchestra tuning up & with members talking at the introduction.....then people laughing with sea gulls at the end...........am I getting warm?

Derek

Title: Re: 'WIDE A WAKE' a steam launch tale
Post by: Don1966 on July 22, 2016, 12:02:55 AM
Ramon my friend, it has been a while since I read your updates. Sorry for being so late but life has been giving me obstacles to over come and my shop time limited. I hope to get back some time soon, but I can say your work on the Wide A Wake has been an inspiration to all of us. I have always enjoyed all of your educational updates and will try to stay with you till it is complete. Thank you for all the unselfish lessons you have shared with us............ :praise2:

Don
Title: Re: 'WIDE A WAKE' a steam launch tale
Post by: b.lindsey on July 22, 2016, 12:20:18 AM
Seeing it all there in that one pictures is most impressive Ramon. So looking forward to the launch whenever it happens!!


Bill
Title: Re: 'WIDE A WAKE' a steam launch tale
Post by: Dave Otto on July 22, 2016, 01:41:17 AM
Ramon you have got to be thoroughly pleased; she runs beautifully now, and I do love the gear driven pump.  :ThumbsUp:

Dave
Title: Re: 'WIDE A WAKE' a steam launch tale
Post by: 10KPete on July 22, 2016, 05:14:18 AM
That is a very impressive power plant you've built, Ramon. Very impressive indeed!

Pete
Title: Re: 'WIDE A WAKE' a steam launch tale
Post by: Maryak on July 22, 2016, 05:40:52 AM
Ramon that is FANTASTIC and way above my capabilities  :NotWorthy: :praise2:

Kind Regards
Bob
Title: Re: 'WIDE A WAKE' a steam launch tale
Post by: Jasonb on July 22, 2016, 07:36:02 AM
Thats a whole lot smoother and the engine/boiler assembly looks very nice.

I do feel that I should share this with you before launch date so that you will be prepared.  :o

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3701314/Angry-bird-Crazed-swan-smashes-eight-model-boats-worth-15-000-lake-beats-ducks-geese-territory.html
Title: Re: 'WIDE A WAKE' a steam launch tale
Post by: Steamer5 on July 22, 2016, 08:48:39 AM
Jason,
 That looks like a job for Chris & his sub & shark team!

Cheers Kerrin
Title: Re: 'WIDE A WAKE' a steam launch tale
Post by: Ramon on July 22, 2016, 09:37:57 AM
Morning guys - thanks for looking in  :)

Don, good to hear from you my friend. I hope your circumstances are quickly resolved to allow you time to get back to that Waller engine as soon as you are able.

Derek - I had to check what was playing  ::). I don't know about getting waarm but the CD in the player was Beethoven - Piano Concerto No 1 - Daniel Barenboim and Otto Klemperer. No laughter that I'm aware of but definitely the Suffolk Coastal Seagull Chorus   to close :D

Jason - we've had several swans over the time I've been at Norwich but all have shown total disinterest in what we do. I would guess this is because the pond is not suitable for nesting and they just 'visit' though we have had cygnets with them. Of course typically it would appear the author does not seem to have recognised that the model boaters are in its territory and not the other way round.

Couldn't help thinking the article was typical media hype though - headline of boats worth £15,000 EACH and then only one worth £15,000 in the text just one of many. Fifteen bloody thousand? yeh pull the other one. Someones seriously got their priorities wrong to spend it on a 'model' boat if so  eh?

Thanks for looking in chaps and your kind comments - all much appreciated as usual  :)

Regards - Ramon
Title: Re: 'WIDE A WAKE' a steam launch tale
Post by: vcutajar on July 22, 2016, 12:59:14 PM
The engine sounds like the real thing.

Vince
Title: Re: 'WIDE A WAKE' a steam launch tale
Post by: crueby on July 22, 2016, 01:26:33 PM
Jason,
 That looks like a job for Chris & his sub & shark team!

Cheers Kerrin

We are in!
Title: Re: 'WIDE A WAKE' a steam launch tale
Post by: derekwarner on July 22, 2016, 01:43:22 PM
Ramon.......your have a demonstrated ability and taste for fine woodwork, exquisite machinery...and now also we see a liking for quality music to work by     ......Derek   :Director:

https://www.google.com.au/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=1&cad=rja&uact=8&ved=0ahUKEwjkq5Ori4fOAhUCm5QKHaKuDicQyCkIIDAA&url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.youtube.com%2Fwatch%3Fv%3DEgKjp98fPnw&usg=AFQjCNH_NerHIJ7dREOI4oSHg6K9t_NWZQ
Title: Re: 'WIDE A WAKE' a steam launch tale
Post by: Ramon on July 22, 2016, 09:12:12 PM
Guys - a question - which I hope someone can answer.

I'm about to make the oil separator and have a nice length of 22swg brass tube that would be fine from a size point of view.

I am aware of the perils of de-zincification  but am unsure of it's exact cause - is it temperature/pressure based or just contact with steam vapour.

If it's temp/pressure based then I'm assuming it might be okay to use this brass tube with brass end plates - the finished item is open to atmosphere so the pressure side is out of the equation at least. I'm thinking that as this is just a 'collector' and not under pressure it should be okay but what do you think?

Having deliberated as to where I was going to site this part of the system for so long it has just become so bloody obvious that I'm itching to get on so a quick response would be most appreciated

Any negative thoughts on using this before I waste a nice piece of brass tube ? :-\

Thanks in advance - Ramon

PS Thanks for the link Derek - although I like most classical music it's very much Beethoven before all else  ;)  Strange, but if I play it on CD it's just in the background but if it comes on the radio I turn it up and stop to listen - ah 'nowt so strange as folk'  ::)
Title: Re: 'WIDE A WAKE' a steam launch tale
Post by: derekwarner on July 22, 2016, 10:36:32 PM
Ramon.............Google provides some interesting articles on de-zincification........the following is rather straight forward

https://www.google.com.au/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=5&cad=rja&uact=8&ved=0ahUKEwi-0YHT_ofOAhWCFJQKHQfmDswQFghDMAQ&url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.chasebrass.com%2FPortals%2F0%2FEco%2520Brass%2FDezincification%2520Web%2520Class%2520ver%25206-25-14%2520(2).pdf&usg=AFQjCNFoEqoB1VuSUk9VeauCz6G4CgMa0w

Essentially an electrochemical issue between metals of lower nobility....having said this, elevated temperatures combined with poor water quality can accelerate the process

Certainly UK boiler inspectors apparently shy away from brass boilers, yet their Continental cousins [Regner] have no issue with brass in certain applications

Considering the de-oiler is a non pressurised...I would doubt your great great great grandson would see the brass de-oiler fall apart at the internal seams from de-zincification :slap:

One sure way of eliminating any concern would be with soft soldered construction [as you are changing the table of nobility between elements] including top & bottom plates bronze entry & exit bushes for increased mechanical strength

Derek

Title: Re: 'WIDE A WAKE' a steam launch tale
Post by: Ramon on July 22, 2016, 11:27:31 PM
Hi Derek - thanks for the response and the link. I have read right through but could not find anything that said don't use brass for an oil separator  ;)

I have mentioned this before somewhere but several years ago - before I had even heard of de-zincification I made a home designed, sort of yarrow type, boiler using some brass tube scrounged off the chief engineer on the Glomar North Sea (drill ship). I used some brass sheet of unknown quality for the end plates which I formed in a small press tool in one hit without annealing (gives an idea of it's malleability). Within a year I added another off take and re-pressure tested it but could not raise the pressure beyond a few pounds as those end plates were totally porous  :o Since then I have always been suspicious of using brass in any steam application.

Your suggestion of soft solder sounds feasible - the heat should not be of concern by the time it arrives in the vessel and besides I do have some high temp SS.

Thanks for your input as usual

Regards - Ramon
Title: Re: 'WIDE A WAKE' a steam launch tale
Post by: K.B.C on July 22, 2016, 11:32:21 PM
Hi Derek - thanks for the response and the link. I have read right through but could not find anything that said don't use brass for an oil separator  ;)

I have mentioned this before somewhere but several years ago - before I had even heard of de-zincification I made a home designed, sort of yarrow type, boiler using some brass tube scrounged off the chief engineer on the Glomar North Sea (drill ship). I used some brass sheet of unknown quality for the end plates which I formed in a small press tool in one hit without annealing (gives an idea of it's malleability). Within a year I added another off take and re-pressure tested it but could not raise the pressure beyond a few pounds as those end plates were totally porous  :o Since then I have always been suspicious of using brass in any steam application.

Your suggestion of soft solder sounds feasible - the heat should not be of concern by the time it arrives in the vessel and besides I do have some high temp SS.

Thanks for your input as usual

Regards - Ramon


Ramon,
Make your oil trap from the brass tube, our late friend Mick ( Patternmaker ) used brass in his Wide Wake" oil trap and I have seen many made from brass ( http://www.modelboatmayhem.co.uk/forum/index.php/topic,30710.225.html ).. you can use either Soft solder or Silver solder, my preference always is Silver solder.

Derek it has been discussed on many occasions by your self and others, the reason that we don't like brass boilers in the U.K. is because people make boilers from any bit of brass tube that they happen to have kicking about their workshop or from a scrap yard.

The German and British use brass in their boiles because they buy in such large quantities they can specify the gauge and the quality of the brass and they then know what they are working with.

George.
Title: Re: 'WIDE A WAKE' a steam launch tale
Post by: derekwarner on July 23, 2016, 02:47:53 AM
Ramon......the point with soft solder which I did not labour upon is that by the elimination of that ~~55% silver in the soldering process, we have changed the table of noble elements

No longer is the silver trying to create the electrolytic cell and pull the zinc from RED brass alloy solution

As K.B.C [George] notes and I agree, silver soldering such a brass de-oiler would be somewhat easier than the selective [water] cooling of individual component parts as needed for soft soldering

A Canadian modeller G George ...[as found on Model Boat Mayhem] is an absolute perfectionist in creating fabricated marine structure's [usually in 1/48 scale] with soft soldered brass construction. This chap acknowledges the somewhat different approach to mechanical joint design and the use of many varied forms of heat sinks as used in his constructions

Derek
Title: Re: 'WIDE A WAKE' a steam launch tale
Post by: Jasonb on July 23, 2016, 07:41:41 AM
I usually go by the rule of thumb that if it is going to come into contact with the boiler WATER then don't use brass, if only comming into contact with steam then brass is OK. After all think of all those brass steam fittings we use.
Title: Re: 'WIDE A WAKE' a steam launch tale
Post by: Ramon on July 23, 2016, 10:27:19 AM
Morning guys - no sailing today as it's 'submarine weekend'  :-\

Thanks for your usual helpful responses - brass it is then.  I'm thinking it will possibly be a composite of solders - silver to pop the fittings in with and soft solder on the ends. (it will be a horizontal one BTW) but we'll see. The only problem I have now is how to actually mount it securely as there is little room and the main plant hold down bolt is directly underneath where it's destined to go - however as Baldrick would say 'I have a cunning plan'  ;)

George I took a look at Micks thread - what a shame he's not with us - he would have enjoyed this I'm sure.

Thanks again - Ramon
Title: Re: 'WIDE A WAKE' a steam launch tale
Post by: Jasonb on July 23, 2016, 11:38:37 AM
Morning guys - no sailing today as it's 'submarine weekend'  :-\

I thought they may welcome a few targets ;)
Title: Re: 'WIDE A WAKE' a steam launch tale
Post by: Ramon on July 24, 2016, 11:05:30 PM
I thought they may welcome a few targets ;)

Well, I went along today - nothing was sunk (except the submarines of course) and nothing torpedoed  :o

Though I have to say it's not for me, the 'tech-y' side of making something work underwater is quite impressive to say the least. Among many fine examples there was one there about twelve feet long and sailing and submerging most realistically. (Sorry, but no pics taken I'm afraid)

Ah well, back on the steam launch - need to get prepped for Thursday - it's final pressure and steam test day  :)

Regards - Ramon
Title: Re: 'WIDE A WAKE' a steam launch tale
Post by: Ramon on July 27, 2016, 11:04:43 PM
Hi guys - another quick update to say that the oil separator is now made and installed. I set out to make it about 60mm longer but it just looked over size so reduced it to what you see. The fittings are all silver soldered but the end caps are soft soldered. I don't have any idea how long this will take to fill - only time will tell but as the saying goes " 'owts better than n'owt in a crisis"

(https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-7j5k6YxNFyI/V5ksnCK4LFI/AAAAAAAAO5s/cCXWZgE29lQnMUE7TydbSL1yfVdJ3GsdgCCo/s800/DSCF9475.JPG)

(https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-5cQVR4lbBMM/V5ksnOewLpI/AAAAAAAAO5o/T0-NDh-eg1QquLxOYT9EEeWb9pQltMGBACCo/s800/DSCF9479.JPG)

Next up is the gas regulator and several shut off valves but all being well if the second pressure and steam test is successful tomorrow (as well as the gas tank test) the plant can now be put in the boat ready for the final fitting out - not long to go now ;)

Regards - Ramon
Title: Re: 'WIDE A WAKE' a steam launch tale
Post by: Ramon on August 01, 2016, 11:29:04 PM
Hi guys

I thought some might like to see these pics of the gas regulator. It's the first time I've made something like this and was pleasantly surprised to find it actually works  :) (well that's to say I've only tested it on air so far)

It was made internally to the dimensions of a drawing sent to me by 'Sandy Cam' which I think is originally a Malcolm Beak design. The original is square in section with four bolt holes but I decided to go for circular and five holes.

Here are the constituent parts. The valve (top left) came from a car tire valve and was much easier to attain than anticipated - just cut the excess end off on the bandsaw, pared the rubber down to the brass inner with a scalpel lubricated with silicone grease and then turned the remainder off with it held in a collet and tailstock support. The separate outer 1/4 x 40 and hex was turned a tight push fit and assembled with Loctite
(https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-VmlpBZ9CvQs/V5_FywV-wwI/AAAAAAAAO7E/zY6VtYDdum8lmhgRmdBDFqmJKOLFEKelwCCo/s800/DSCF9490.JPG)

The inside faces were relieved to take the nitrile rubber diaphragm - note the slightly raised ring to act as an all round clamping force.
(https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-pKrEgRVHYCA/V5_Fy_LUSiI/AAAAAAAAO7A/M86mc4VA6CgKIcbVP_F6Bgo27i0WGbU1wCCo/s800/DSCF9496.JPG)

Cutting the 1mm thick rubber was relatively easy with a cutter turned from a piece of EN24t then stamping it out on another, much harder piece of rubber using my small fly-press. When turning this cutter I had intended doubling this up as a drill jig but decided to do another out of mild steel rather than risk damaging the cutting edge. The holes drilled without a hitch and a couple of spares were made.
(https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-BoFXujGc5Xw/V5_FysKJM_I/AAAAAAAAO7Y/KhsEK8K-o5UPZeEwsL2lpu0VC6jBEPgjwCCo/s800/DSCF9495.JPG)

The finished item - just a mounting bracket to make and the requisite bit of plumbing
(https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-uv6Xyg2gKgg/V5_F0MxuztI/AAAAAAAAO7Y/pYo4Y4jl4TYDLasdwlyDdxGACleRisiVACCo/s800/DSCF9500.JPG)

I coupled it up to the airline and after a small bit of tweaking (dis-assembly required) to shorten the valve stem protrusion it works just as it should - from nothing to fully open but I do have to test it for gas leaks as yet.

Well that's another step closer toward the end, several small valves to make now.

Hope the production of this 'off the mainstream' part is of interest to some

Regards - Ramon


Oh yes I forgot to say - the boiler passed its second hydraulic and steam test without a hitch or a leak  :). As my old Company Sergeant Major would say "Same detail for the gas tank"  ;) so final installation is now very close indeed  :) :)


Title: Re: 'WIDE A WAKE' a steam launch tale
Post by: crueby on August 01, 2016, 11:32:12 PM
Is the regulator for something like butane or propane? Looks great!
Title: Re: 'WIDE A WAKE' a steam launch tale
Post by: b.lindsey on August 01, 2016, 11:36:14 PM
Very interesting Ramon, and a very nice looking result as well. I hope it works as you expect and feel sure it will. Well done!!

Bill
Title: Re: 'WIDE A WAKE' a steam launch tale
Post by: Ramon on August 01, 2016, 11:39:25 PM
Wow they were two quick replies!

Hi Bill and Chris - yes its for the standard Coleman 70/30 Butane Propane mix. I'm hoping this will allow for a much smoother off take of gas from the tank and hopefully lessen the temperature reduction rate.

Regards - Ramon
Title: Re: 'WIDE A WAKE' a steam launch tale
Post by: 10KPete on August 02, 2016, 12:01:21 AM
That's excellent, Ramon! Really nice work. Can you provide a sketch of the dimensions for that regulator? I've
been looking for one...

Thanks,
Pete
Title: Re: 'WIDE A WAKE' a steam launch tale
Post by: Robert Hornby on August 02, 2016, 12:07:52 AM
Very nice job on the regulator Ramon, I used the same design from Sandy for my gas reg except mine is hexagon shaped in lieu of square. It works OK too.
Robert

(http://i1327.photobucket.com/albums/u667/RobertHornby/IMG_3844_zpswoh7bf6m.jpg) (http://s1327.photobucket.com/user/RobertHornby/media/IMG_3844_zpswoh7bf6m.jpg.html)
Title: Re: 'WIDE A WAKE' a steam launch tale
Post by: Don1966 on August 02, 2016, 01:04:44 AM
Love the regulator and oil tank Ramon as yet another example of excellent craftsmanship. Beautiful results my friend and made of my favorite brass......... So you know .......I........like........... :Love:

Don
Title: Re: 'WIDE A WAKE' a steam launch tale
Post by: Dave Otto on August 02, 2016, 01:09:37 AM
Ramon the regulator valve is a very nice piece of work!

Kind of goes along with everything you do; just splendid.

Dave
Title: Re: 'WIDE A WAKE' a steam launch tale
Post by: 10KPete on August 03, 2016, 06:47:17 AM
Ramon,

I found the original info from Beak on this pressure regulator, so that's covered.

Now, I understand from reading various old posts on Paddleducks that there was a demand valve design and an automatic gas control driven by steam pressure. But I can't find any real trails to follow for the designs. Can you help with this??

Thanks,
Pete
Title: Re: 'WIDE A WAKE' a steam launch tale
Post by: Ramon on August 03, 2016, 08:31:56 AM
Hi guys  - thanks as usual for looking in and your kind comments. Hope it won't be too long before you are 'working the brass' again Don  ;)

Pete - I do know what you are referring too though have no direct knowledge of its make up or working. I believe it was called an 'attenuator' and again was a Malcolm Beak design. Have a feeling that I have that info on file somewhere - a sneaking feeling that Sandy also sent me a copy so as soon as I get in the workshop today I'll have a look for you

Regards - Ramon
Title: Re: 'WIDE A WAKE' a steam launch tale
Post by: Ramon on August 03, 2016, 02:55:16 PM
Hi again Pete,

I have found the article for you but have only just realised that my new, reasonably priced (read cheap) Canon printer does not appear to have a scan  function :o

Although it does not say 'Model Engineer' on the article I have I'm sure that is where it featured - the  issue  though was definitely November 1989 

It was by Malcolm Beak and he does state the idea came originally from the American magazine  'Live Steam', issue January 1987. Apparently the originator, one Christopher Leggo, called it an 'attenuator' and that's what MB continues to do.

If you get really stuck in finding further info PM me your address and I will send you the article

Regards - Ramon
Title: Re: 'WIDE A WAKE' a steam launch tale
Post by: 10KPete on August 03, 2016, 03:40:06 PM
Some times I think my mind makes up things for me to remember, and then drive me nuts trying to find. That information does exist!! :whoohoo: I was sure I was going nuts....  But you found it.....

I will PM you.  THANK YOU!! :cartwheel:

Pete
Title: Re: 'WIDE A WAKE' a steam launch tale
Post by: Ramon on August 05, 2016, 11:04:38 PM
Hi Pete, you're welcome - it's on its way  ;)

Not much to report but a new coupling machined from Tufnol has been fitted - the original stainless one created a slight of rattle that I thought could be improved upon and two water tank valves are well under way. No pics as yet I'm afraid.

I'm having a complete change for the weekend - the annual Southwold model railway show tomorrow with my brother in law and his brother in law and on Sunday Sue and I are off to Old Warden for the Edwardian Air Pageant. Lots of first war aircraft on the menu  :) so not much room for workshop time until Monday  :D

Ramon
Title: Re: 'WIDE A WAKE' a steam launch tale
Post by: Ian S C on August 06, 2016, 11:23:33 AM
Ramon, If you are off to Old Warden, it would be worth looking at
thevintageaviator.co.nz/projects/aircraft
TVAL build and rebuild ww1 aircraft, if need be right from the engine, some of these aircraft were shipped over to Britain for the ww1 centenary, both British and German.
Ian S C
Title: Re: 'WIDE A WAKE' a steam launch tale
Post by: Ramon on August 08, 2016, 06:38:27 PM
Thanks for the link Ian but I am aware of it through my plastic modelling interest and the  Wingnut Wings productions from NZ. Awesome stuff as you say.

Old Warden was it's usual great day out but sadly the WWI aircraft (including some from TVAL) were all grounded due to the strong winds that swept the country. It was still a good display put on by other aircraft though - the Lysander made the day  :)

Regards - Ramon
Title: Re: 'WIDE A WAKE' a steam launch tale
Post by: Ramon on August 11, 2016, 10:44:36 PM
Well hopefully Google Photos and yours truly are now at one with one another  ::)

We'll see  :)

Here are a few pics of latest additions - small work but time consuming as its very much make it up as you go along.

Shut off valves for both water tanks were made - nothing complicated which is just as well as I forgot to take any pics. Just two components silver soldered together for the body and a stainless valve stem. The handles were bought and the pipe is 1/8 dia
(https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/DjYUka-uwuBk_ZZbRB778EsgpOTFwRwWddzfQLZvbvSed89UDCLKhsxk85x5OyOQHCcIS1QY03tqeSQn3xjsWVmkmBUk0xCFh0uytMkQngRXcsLAt2ydcpWoMURg7aLthHqS3jiuE82IrpBmiIlgAJLawyAsj6WoCn2ELBGi7AJi545zBnZVEiNpoYQqBts5GagHuJZ46sQpPf9-wHZ62Noxh_okaeoTG_tdVB6abrxUYcQT0aslASg3KSTT1AWWBNDSFjZWwuQHI8HLo_eCSS5csW71C-65RekUT8DcusHV8H9gdJvQtBK3EqtoKJhsMtlb7HRF0iKdhHgd14kzjPjIQ1Qaq_j0mHvdtTmnrTfLsYMhN4Z2mx88WsJ4M6SltXH6ypmtPy0I_2B-qw-KVBGkFblthYc3RxM7Qd9uHyMHzXCLKrRwvmPB_m3j2rW0KaQ0_cJGbigORfY330hRQoUEafdI4EMe2JzeUvRnkLtWpNsD6Gg36SPJtYrZlqSxLh5JeNnxBZBXPMVqprGy_IZcHDkj0NXo8UV-wVP5NT1jHOiG2aGrxcmbV8-4ni3iMQ-TtKHuh89oJbziJqI-a1xaWmp8I-U=w1160-h870-no)

I think it was Derek who said he had used PolyFilla to smooth out his steam pipe lagging. I was about to use the light green standard Milliput but found I had some of their White in the drawer. It's been sanded out but will probably be painted as it does mark a tad
(https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/7EG4ExDeuW_ly7uypl8c6Kvdj3b9YNgn9pKilZXOt4S82kIvEz1t4dDbHmHNQukZ1wWW52Es0pSpW5ik3x1KqLUKl63hkRBpxJM4ttJAHHDRdrnsFI4Ru6tsw5UAiBDoICwWmtCnzX4Imc7AxuvCPIBsBbwz6vqo0BRN9QtkFxCUBb7PbArZITuLWs-lH7k6UC_TIht-MrWx1bEP2LNksxQpuOfh6_2T2VWpAZHQeBjueHaZN1CR-ZvBy_o7hKQo_Wi2qNXssHZePwf97VhXBNvTqkZNZJ3za3WbprllbuQb4ssAVgr7YM4TellIlE8opHaEynSh_--QTCe616_DC4ynw-Bhc1rdnbtT2cBaRolDu9SDOzWnjNsTG3TkjQO8vVeheipNwpmPwBIKiJAQHMvF0CQ1_F-k_01HObh5K-vJpQ4PShg741CV8drekQMSXegpLU-RI8mVeRLmrDN5Z-ZnUWq2FEskCxulDKpxZFn9NNtPscTBDskoy0GUrRkZ_666Z7woj7Pj32jBVq8ZXayp5ZCHOU2DT1MBWzTjG38N3LuJz-ry3R4B28TKTTl-UYGV7MweJHtFWsTPJf0YItTM2BZL3UM=w1160-h870-no)

These are the constituent parts for the valve for the outlet of the oil separator. A quarter turn valve for  sealing the separator and allowing the contents to be pumped out by exhaust pressure
(https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/Yu_PqLHcL4fCCcSR49Ti2FJIMUWDo8b11BeLt1dK7YFNBzomLeFSWHQtvWDR3bdBtbYkdP_DCZtAEeqmQaenWRMenQY6MJvWbmsB6oZNRLkqdZMtAwkAETf6xDF6kI09o1GbvazOMetTHpmF7TJmYYtCADxmihklhZRqCFr5wEmRoIJx0u4SN9g3BHsMRXtfwlQb8cXJaMPRhQA6H58v05EuUG3kXaWgV06LLP8QcbBB43XIX2u-kE0JLGAXXOSNOIIVZdYar747mdCeIZse2XDovWuJw_xeTi_HUDhlFQ9t9QfNAeX_JFX_79ggX7sFsIRjNNa1Ddnm-iib2YphP-YzjC9UPaVyIYQyvt3um45s3KTkxknO-aeD79FKsnOQVCeydnq3TqIB1aSd_i4JArKL7TRVOA6TAcmrr4rWujQ45AiseC3bxjMujrAnML3HZpeAU42jaYs6adTdbxr7iEFdZ-Rrs4H57dSUmRpXRk9R_HT1WWi6Bo0w4XOA7VVYdB6-En_hB_9W2nQztbjwiFAWG7_mHn175kg2d8owxsco5cRTvzRH4tsn1xFWCzOn-8L6VpPELFZS_TFfv1ydjIccRs9Ntxg=w1160-h870-no)

Ready to fit - the separator has been bead blasted and is currently 'in the paint shop'
(https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/l4zQnqWErcut2rRqsPvZ89TeLbE2nm2_70akWQ3cH9uY_7uvugjCtEyCvrKPN27NIKb4JKrB7NC7beOxe_LLke9ZmqjQfUT-17pJ_GVKfH85jxwUxPCRbGmgkpwABDwdfv0Q4vqNvoh1XW1fjUr57DYZAlnYpHhb-yxA6Fw6M4Ydb49RsxBD5CbzaPUExfo-aIgCqwUoAAXXBswu4R77dgBBCBvwKNm_V4nfecMSCM7kkHDdC3AWWxCuKeR9pmq4eux2eB8fhkmN96iFZpkIL2f7s4Bz00AMc-u2yKljdCjUZknVmtDFnexnjhnnTr25UqozwYXbVlzA-Yvew6G_sWHKKgXX6EVcfPYUCMpulA5krib_IHiQSjIJBlU52P86JSuDIlcyXJwQDz-n_TjJHCuo-rynbH8szjEDCPEzC8hEzT1clNBM2Z0YVikm6XInFJb_UAxbt2XlfGEqgy4L34oSNolD1bWVQX-cdWF6iEd3evlz4KYFBRfCIkNa5Yl-8EXak44pe1UyWwjV2cUnYsVpTEMZ8qSGENvwygiBVc-S6FgmY1i93LM4Uw1EA78ZBdrrDPuE2ZZN5HdS3oN-M4GQoRFz_L4=w1160-h870-no)


Well that's it for tonight - I hope these pics produce okay for you as it's been a trying (very trying) few days. Bruce - my thanks for the tip on changing the size in the text  :ThumbsUp: ah you know, it's okay for you guys with computer skills but for me it's been a bloody nightmare  - never mind - just keep smilin'  :)

Bill - if these do produce okay can you take out from post #675 to #705 - that will produce a tad of continuity  :)

Thanks to those of you who offered help and advice on this issue - so many look at this thread but so few make comment - your input was and is much appreciated :ThumbsUp: :ThumbsUp:

Regards - Ramon
Title: Re: 'WIDE A WAKE' a steam launch tale
Post by: b.lindsey on August 11, 2016, 11:51:38 PM
OK Ramon, all cleaned up now. Nice work of the valves BTW :)

Bill
Title: Re: 'WIDE A WAKE' a steam launch tale
Post by: 10KPete on August 12, 2016, 12:03:00 AM
I'm just itching to see a photo tour of that installation, Ramon. I'm currently working on the engine out of a 26' steam launch, with a vertical boiler, and I have visions of that stuff in my head all day it seems as I get ready to re-install the engine.

Beautiful work!

Pete
Title: Re: 'WIDE A WAKE' a steam launch tale
Post by: Don1966 on August 12, 2016, 12:07:05 AM
I am also waiting for an overall photo of the complete installation my friend. Stunning results on the valve and separator........... :ThumbsUp:


Don
Title: Re: 'WIDE A WAKE' a steam launch tale
Post by: Dave Otto on August 12, 2016, 01:22:57 AM
Everything looks great Ramon!

The steam pipe lagging adds some very nice functional detail to the power plant.

Dave
Title: Re: 'WIDE A WAKE' a steam launch tale
Post by: Ramon on August 12, 2016, 09:33:33 AM
Thanks Bill - that looks much better  :ThumbsUp:

Thanks for the comments too guys - it won't be too long now but I confess I am slowing a bit at the final hurdle - just getting a little tired with it now. I am aiming for a September launch date though - aiming, please note, not definite  :D

Regards - Ramon
Title: Re: 'WIDE A WAKE' a steam launch tale
Post by: Robert Hornby on August 12, 2016, 10:28:34 AM
Brilliant work Ramon, I love the pipe lagging and will do the same to mine prior to installing the engine in the boat.
Robert
Title: Re: 'WIDE A WAKE' a steam launch tale
Post by: Johnb on August 13, 2016, 01:02:45 PM
Neat as ever Ramon. Keep it up!
Title: Re: 'WIDE A WAKE' a steam launch tale
Post by: Ramon on August 16, 2016, 11:02:55 PM
Hi Guys - I'm pleased to be able to say that the engine/boiler/gas tank plant is now complete  :) and installed  :) :). The gas tank and regulator is plumbed  (no pics) but does need painting (waiting on some self etch primer) Here are a couple of the engine end though

The exhaust piping is lagged with 4 ply cotton yarn from the local sewing shop. Lovely soft and smooth material to use it was coated with a generous coating of thin sanding sealer before painting with high temp paint. Sandy has recommended that the outlet from the separator should be larger than the inlet but this was after I had made the valve which has a 1/4 x 40 outlet. Currently it's 5/32 pipe so I think it may need at least 3/16 - I'll stick with it for now and have to see how it performs.
(https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/xeVev1LkR767qeC4g9J6a2-HEDiuNxF282Sg8iJ8EPkA-dGvpZL4ddvQIwHUp_Iuz3MrVPuGc7G64w3owtlTN5TssSM-0RZo0WRX94SMpMCpxAbQ8x-7XsoFq4G7vL2mLQ20OThv-TZohtvjpEEXQIC8f4DIFv6stSHWfZVxQVzsIuRKHqndvoDw2UdkS5V7p523Nrc8mkyDvZiYytUKtJjgt5CVUJLcbr7OeM-48PWMXTtcqMZFY_t_HpbIRH313V4B8BMZRXt3zNA_Gkyv2rrms5_XeuI8-dkpbm4bazkiG_HcvyrqrgXYXWWdKwbdRmf_aXQqp8SgQrwrx8ZNz64_Th_Hkq7NbHfl28qtJSkELyC-e9z65v-OqL4cBFexm8tbsCYXyN5PV8dMr6iiMn-6U82lA0rb5UzCN0lpFZzCY8IjjUym9cWrHvtcjt-ZIP95vJkjysoEQigu4u_MhpahgBXw-OmBYtx-rsIE5kuMVt2bOFa6lJoKfAEearMQ_9iHA1B3L5GL-y28FCposAheeQZYC5ywrdiRLGNTbXeLzy0i8gq-u3ctl_OyDiTW3L5tMVaEjJYFAliCf9aFfwQqTDeLlRQ=w1160-h870-no)

(https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/P6_syGNrmkNHimd3kVF9KXlNLQE11ViblAYE6tPGFGoXSYPs7BxmkNoZP2z1IXri2kM-kjzJe0DVt6VufFCArJsMUC62Lzh2VQIX-YRpCm8mJno6-OUoIfUMQf0X628vYh1RQwNmFryyVkrx9lBekaUCrMvf-LBV_wyczdSzEJfFzNsRZtUWdAhQekt_asIq4e_wceOVCAMCSgCdJ6KarDy5wMPH2wrojhZnYO-Aeo9MWxJ4p1qNxLtRmhulxVclEAttXTRAsAJbYWf_DZgWURXz2zfDGrP18E2ve2S-ZsGodJC3Np9xtavUtnqZsQBmc0pjQGILNdsff5k4WBOBRzTE0vuc9zg8kF6upgo6RxkctESTgs7b8QfuQJE4i5cNDyY5fE_0F49xU1SJcoWtgwWZMbP5Wr872lEcpq--dIXBcQHLD0WdUYiHjeIUFh6avX5S4QNX-j-XNWXD9KwJ8c-bv_CMF6QfYLj51ijRze16UQEp0Qd4GxcCxT8ZJEIC0mslEv7mdmasHUGoCJYre7L4HR0dViiaZK8SaRuKlurEcTYXLznxAXY_a7jyEOfVM5SWp_Rk86KZdKdfwrC7z_CAkMsR9aM=w1160-h870-no)

Next up is tackling a job that for some reason I find I really dislike - installing the servos. Don't know why but I always have to push to find the interest to do this no matter what model it is - yeh I know, strange isn't it  ::) I'm waiting on some smaller high torque servos to keep the installation as compact as possible - hopefully they will be here tomorrow.

A September launch date is looking more and more likely  :)

Regards - Ramon
Title: Re: 'WIDE A WAKE' a steam launch tale
Post by: Don1966 on August 16, 2016, 11:12:04 PM
That engine and boiler look down right to gorgeous sitting in the vessel. I am loving all the details you've put into this launch Ramon..... and I can tell you that ........I..........like........ :Love:
Beautiful work my friend ......... :praise2:


Don
Title: Re: 'WIDE A WAKE' a steam launch tale
Post by: pgp001 on August 16, 2016, 11:13:44 PM
Ramon

That really is looking the business now.
I assume you have mentioned somewhere how you did the white pipe lagging, can you point me in the right direction to find it please.

Phil
Title: Re: 'WIDE A WAKE' a steam launch tale
Post by: crueby on August 16, 2016, 11:51:55 PM
Simply stunning!   :NotWorthy:
Title: Re: 'WIDE A WAKE' a steam launch tale
Post by: b.lindsey on August 17, 2016, 12:07:17 AM
Ramon, that last pic could just as easily have been taken of a full size launch. I half expected to see a mechanic fiddling with the engine preparing it for the first launch.  Beautiful !!!

Bill
Title: Re: 'WIDE A WAKE' a steam launch tale
Post by: 10KPete on August 17, 2016, 12:07:28 AM
Love it, love it, love it!! Beautiful! I wish our full size could look that nice...

Pete
Title: Re: 'WIDE A WAKE' a steam launch tale
Post by: derekwarner on August 17, 2016, 12:27:58 AM
Morning Ramon.......when viewed, I see the 1/4 turn steam discharge [isolation] valve at the top of the de-oiler, however in the same image what appears to be a globe valve on the discharge to the lower endcap face of the de-oiler

I understand that closing the 1/4 turn valve will allow you to pump the oily water from the de-oiler via the globe valve OK...... [please forgive me if I misunderstood] but what would happen  :facepalm: if that scale mechanic that Bill mentioned got on the   :wine1: & shut both valves at the same time?

[as on the 22/7..you mentioned..'I'm thinking that as this is just a 'collector' and not under pressure']

Derek
Title: Re: 'WIDE A WAKE' a steam launch tale
Post by: Dave Otto on August 17, 2016, 01:20:07 AM
Amazing craftsmanship Ramon,

All the detail you have put into the whole project is just stunning; I love the contrast that the gray paint on the bottom of the hull adds. Then add the engine, pump, tanks and piping; just wow. I don't know what else to say.

Amazing work my friend,

Dave
Title: Re: 'WIDE A WAKE' a steam launch tale
Post by: Ramon on August 17, 2016, 09:02:59 AM
Hi guys - thank you all for all your kind comments and appreciation  :)

Don, good to see you still have the opportunity to look in despite all the trauma of the flooding that surrounds you. I trust you are coping well with such an awful situation.

Phil, I didn't refer to it in any detail as such but I had lagged the steam pipes with cotton parcel string first (two layers). Following a comment that someone -Derek I believe - had used Poly-Filla to smooth things out I was about to do the same using standard Mili-Put epoxy putty when I found some of the 'White' Mili-Put in the drawer and used that. It's meant for porcelain repairs I believe. This was quite old and one part had a tough-ish 'skin' on. This will still homogenise with the other part but it really has to be worked hard to do so - it would have been much better to use some fresh stuff. If you haven't used Mili-Put before it responds really well when working/shaping using water as a lubricant which does not affect the curing or finish in any way.

Derek - you raise a very good point - however I'm assured that the mechanic is most definitely tee-total during the day  :o

This does not of course eliminate the possibility of closing both valves at the same time whilst running the engine but given the training he has undergone if he does so he will most certainly be fired.

Short of trying to fit some kind of interlock (and that's not going to be a popular option at this stage) I can't see how to overcome this potential situation - I'll just have to be very careful and pay attention - particularly at the launch with the bubbly doing the rounds  :D

Thanks again guys  :ThumbsUp: back soon - Ramon


Title: Re: 'WIDE A WAKE' a steam launch tale
Post by: Jasonb on August 17, 2016, 10:48:44 AM
You could possibly have a very weak safety valve on it Ramon just strong enough not to blow due to back pressure from the blower pipe when running, maybe tee'd off before one of the valves which would save having to add a boss.

Have a lever on it that can be held shut when pumping out the oil but free to return when you take your finger off of it.
Title: Re: 'WIDE A WAKE' a steam launch tale
Post by: fumopuc on August 17, 2016, 08:44:43 PM
Hi Ramon. Just beautiful.
Title: Re: 'WIDE A WAKE' a steam launch tale
Post by: Tennessee Whiskey on August 17, 2016, 09:36:29 PM
OK you old salt dog, I've been quiet long enough.  There is nothing else that can be added to the accolades of the build : I just wish I could load my Lou,  some good wine and cheese,  and board for a  late summer's river cruise.  Beautiful Ramon  :ThumbsUp:  :ThumbsUp:

Cletus
Title: Re: 'WIDE A WAKE' a steam launch tale
Post by: K.B.C on August 17, 2016, 11:28:47 PM
Hi
Derek - you raise a very good point - however I'm assured that the mechanic is most definitely tee-total during the day  :o

This does not of course eliminate the possibility of closing both valves at the same time whilst running the engine but given the training he has undergone if he does so he will most certainly be fired.

Short of trying to fit some kind of interlock (and that's not going to be a popular option at this stage) I can't see how to overcome this potential situation - I'll just have to be very careful and pay attention - particularly at the launch with the bubbly doing the rounds  :D

Thanks again guys  :ThumbsUp: back soon - Ramon

Ramon,
Nothing would happen if both valves were closed other than the engine would stop, so all that is required is to open the valves to atmosphere and the engine will run.

This would be found in your pre check before letting the model off on to the water and don't forget that the valve to atmosphere is only used to blow down the tank after a days running.

George.
Title: Re: 'WIDE A WAKE' a steam launch tale
Post by: Ramon on August 18, 2016, 09:46:39 AM
Hi Guys - thanks as usual for your input  :)

Jason - thanks, but I shan't break into the system now - as George says it is very unlikely that the situation will arise - I agree not an impossibility, but unlikely given the usage. No, I'll live with it for now.

George - thanks too - hope you and Marion are keeping well and you have recovered fully  :ThumbsUp:

Achim - good to see you still looking in  ;)

Now 'T W-ya' what can I say - jest you pack everything up, get Lou on yer arm, pick up Don on yer way an cut yer self along poste haste to the launch - bubbly's on me and Sue  ;)  Now wouldn't that just be a fine thing indeed were that possible  :) You betcha!


Looking at that exhaust pipe from separator to funnel and bearing in mind Sandy's advice  to have it larger that the inlet I modified the valve yesterday to take a 3/8 x 32 nipple and fitted a 1/4 pipe. It's big difference in bending 1/4 dia to 5/32 especially in a small radius but with plenty of annealing and a couple of false starts got there in the end.It certainly looks more in keeping now.

The servos arrived but I had mistakenly bought micro not 'mini' ones so they are rather too small so some more are on their way.
Whilst waiting for those then I think a damn good clean up is in order  ::)

Regards - Ramon
Title: Re: 'WIDE A WAKE' a steam launch tale
Post by: Ramon on August 25, 2016, 11:19:50 PM
Hi guys,

Just a small update on yet another small stage (but for me a big one) - fitting the servos. Big only in that it is one of those jobs in working model making that for some reason I just really loathe undertaking. I don't know why that should be but whatever the model I just find it tedious in the extreme so it tends to be put off until there's no option but to get to grips with it  ::)

Anyway despite this reluctance I'm pleased to say it's done  :)


 I decided to use one of the micro servos to control the throttle which it does quite effectively though how it will perform once steam pressure and heat has an effect remains to be seen.
(https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/4AMhYuzPfLp7lJySg1y2-tIUvM0QiRSmWvwC7vsDpYnx956oDHilDy7nGp6FXK9n3I2DcJXoxytpwtTycKS1flX36rluYtWr8x4tSH0CmGtrU21ao5L1XOaMt0mZIiik04Kk5-veOMcsPuoB0DPgfEmqU9CyPiu-9SgPcpVCRwhro5JDRVKbYabZuFTK6Hpg3pvRl1o5eEebITRLNP7BEHcfdcYzxctmw1mnUjy-IcI0DqVU6ow2K3_b2KXE7Jl-fd-ERhumvVh6e6lN5VAyrOSxYVi4luNZ_Q07ocYqmIAVf72FVB_mGR5iVEPgus-29Hy17YrsBne53JwnSSY9z-OdnRrW4jTdIW0o3vQ17ZiSya5FjJCxb0OxdygfD4XE8ftpjaLpA6Da1AKsb_DvF2uQqBIF8Zuo9RUYOxTSaXuz7dtEKaXp6i8E5u9l6-2RzCG5whoVwLIM-YxJBu0AkRItw_TdQNagbwCrYWLLGzuFUPbT8LQW7fD33NwTdQmnaX60ET75tRTyQ_4qK97RrSJTBzdU1s3s8GmLSE4YUzuE65JeXIBZKhBwt6KqdmsC9twV8HPV7g8olGkzYSfBzx4Na_Q4h_VHrOAY-DSU9k7-_6hK=w1231-h923-no)

Should it not prove man enough the mounting can be removed for fitting a larger servo but it meant having to drill through the bulkhead for the mounting screws. This whole assembly will have a cover made for it in the form of a locker in order to disguise it
(https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/JsHXNDkFES5N9PZ22zrM2r-Mx8ZYKr2IjAFFjvpBRYJ9Y0PcaNQkAUbrqZUvDbeXmyPoDfge0td3b7nvmO0twkp16ENc8G3qwD65fvu88dTwdNryhyjpdHqfYt-tPGpvJRquhq249lyKNpTGEWsv4RbUIItwfZNHzE3ZzeKukFXD-5N53gNWbOG2R7UOrt2R9lVcvVJsZHc7_zzTNu1qsZGnCkd7C23biNzGBuC8WP6Btyr6eIL6HLW-1YH0cC-SgH7k9caVJW9k-RUY5BBFwflCh9bb4sTCvgIk3AedL2XxoN6u759Mj52_3JfBk7Jrp8qjWp1UJ3fzB0-EHNhN_OvIkP5FLNrJaQG08MXlHGqgke7mcE2ILuZvLiVOSjHQYi9IkJ3S4n6x9DkO0L1VJWpOThLi7btcrU8AU8LVl1VcRwqxHp709bOnpJIoGxCsvw_M84s04DjWYZutuDP5Wtr5iYQycl2zzfReQuNCilEQrSuv6pZDlvODMex15FAuD-enfQVJ_zZz5YYM6SI2BuYYx33PUhhntoIj6g4A_7vwqAkgZLKkwdML0F4aK1m4lsbtE7JlryaBJt1_CunbccbP8VcVTXjdMy0xVLCDbKlqSNXl=w1231-h923-no)


Once this was working okay attention turned to the reversing gear drive.  A 'Sandy and George' type 'servo saver' was made up (thanks guys  :ThumbsUp:) and a servo mount created from ply and lime
(https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/J0qpq4AwBNSTwkzGLPA4kH2Oy3aJQplnhhx-FD2SOWI4FbXovSurpjSARou-xtlfOvDLVwyk_NmuAkKfV7XaCAuZOw6BRlpshxciquoy_ODp3xUuTVBog6lyPBvAKQU3cpRkYFuAbf_tA6-mXrMOULIjuwznT6Bt3URnXPyS-RJci37umfwcD2Uj3NtcLxBz0FaSHc2k9YAMMWepjA5DBm-YgQq0rPAFJXn8q3mNhpMKr_He9VbbaPMtXRtJOcHJMdvmQ-k_ZBCn7geRLOflokBrvBTBINMYJ7esbJsrGT3iab3SpezyrQ7PzCKZxCizZ-xdCiYkwRJ0h01rUJAFcrJp-sr2rxvAq0hFPvWFsO67oqHXVJ8OqqKALzSRaeDJ-uPQXYboCP8zakDC64oa_rMcSP0DK9Q3YRHeASFMKa7jnv50osiTuZjXoDnaoIQAip_9dmrgIdrbP37sFE8rpD5uZ15l2ohmYdrsnKPDRFBdcvNDdqYK8nQfY8aK6RBtLevBUDHkLPweUc41fNhK7J28-8dKaiwReChUgu0AC_QNqAE2bzbi5A5iGHSxCkkyhjYkYabjzSClnftsIfHzxIQy_zKFvNOqgP8dClBQ8aLErdLj=w1231-h923-no)

(https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/g-4_AEsx-5qkYmgAhUxzJsPSr1ZmPTnf2GelmBBoKOMD6GVps9FEbXwMTKPNvdngh2o2dGBuk-p8I9x40dtS_I4CzaAt3ZoHO3WkjCg4PBlUVCw63FthJhQYQa5Ee68AWWns5NVBxpwty3f73If-I7FdX6p-W03IO-XXPW7H65FvcWC6hKkDnYJCZxrtxqZZNGvnQFceXlkaqnzdFHSQ3fS-k4jzfqrT-1SQSeftNbsWX3vCSJsF2reyZyxZBrQCxdhrs2KDKzXSsP9t0-LbP57FZrAVpCUtdvrPvNlbFsNCM3ZZuMeQ1PDwFkow3bWH3ajtkS8TUQTouGXPf2crUDu1lxffx-bd5vsOectweVEHJLHJz_QmmxEUAxfOsrkVqaoDIpdfgZVHJaDcMLK_-X9Hmw_k9YzOmchIjr4lo3FGe7CQZndneAkW3oF8D0ayg0rW3YH3s9eyMbrQlZaGAhoh40mH-tOMGLOH6WtP9eKfWK7u0UuYT6Z49jS--ue47wN2B_r6XDS4p0BeayrXWyN1uf4xk2PP3fRm9PEZE_YX9YWcZAhmBElsiJbbTaSeWsZbkK9Ya-2_-m5-cmDgkDz6Yt06TNjiNpUL9BFvpn7QqKjf=w1231-h923-no)

This assembly is held by bolts passing through the ribs and hull - it was intended to fit four but two appear to be more than adequate, it works very positively and absorbs all the linkage vibration with no hint of it at the servo arm itself. Again this will have a cover made for it to try to make it more a part of the boat.
(https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/VtcirUVcZaz1JTcznN_dzzUngK2Zz6js3EiwXpo6MQkhi7pZZsZ2ntvK_6mz_3_RYPACs5ko3eo5XEwyXaWxi_ztM1lnXBTYuRQLvDmM69KL7GmBh1RVXitQ5hKQ_2TK_8K6F1niixF_HnXUPWFN-gKWNjoyJ0DliRx1fUAa71DV5QXkBAAo6ysks91hhMWKvEO8-yndp-wVq1CkxH1J9XPeetWT6FJj06z0MClChM-4xVIF6YJdv8GN_21fOS7uZlNbJGBbcVxLXaLxdJ0z-l6p6ELSIvDA7q-6yrQF-v9zxr5-qtIoOkd5YdNcPBcURVhAU7fRRv7mKtQJoSDeFxa2EmFDp3ftGWoKcP1g5x2G5748VKJCZc6gbNBEhb8C__arDGyZBWkfrVCK70sIbB3uJ3uAqu_0_1Oy6qRjpbWiqKRq-L8-dniFePsIsA8HlxQVBGA20p_e1fYTlojWyKCcs7zK0TXqKhYmC2roGhQtpae1tB0GY1GZWHthm9nNdaiR8_saTf910gFmVJjJUm-ZxTUcuobsX8eo0Pm2_wQvY8rj3XKzwT_de-6yKdRGVrQ9vgq7hiLCLO6aaUCRPyLu_NoPwj5rD13LfunfpbmEiuCF=w1231-h923-no)

I only finished this this evening and though it does need a degree of tweaking it works very well indeed. It also brings the end of the 'mechanical' side of this journey to a near close - just the whistle to sort out  :) What's left after that is basically cosmetic - those covers mentioned above and one for the rudder gear - an anchor and maybe a boat hook too perhaps.

Not long now then ;)

Regards - Ramon


Title: Re: 'WIDE A WAKE' a steam launch tale
Post by: tvoght on August 25, 2016, 11:42:48 PM
Congratulations on getting through that little unpleasantness. Always humbled by your high standard of workmanship.

--Tim
Title: Re: 'WIDE A WAKE' a steam launch tale
Post by: Don1966 on August 26, 2016, 12:05:59 AM
Always a pleasure to see more updates my friend and a marvelous job on installing the servos. Even though not your favorite you have done it justice.

Don
Title: Re: 'WIDE A WAKE' a steam launch tale
Post by: b.lindsey on August 26, 2016, 12:44:33 AM
A very professional installation Ramon. Very neat and I am sure the covers will hide things well.

Bill
Title: Re: 'WIDE A WAKE' a steam launch tale
Post by: Dave Otto on August 26, 2016, 01:35:10 AM
Ramon, I can understand your reluctance to dive in the servo part of the build; after all you are introducing something completely foreign to an otherwise pristine vintage setting. 

The installation is looking wonderful; and when you are done I'm sure everything will be disguised and invisible to the casual observer.

I wish I had your sills; you continue to amaze me.

Dave
Title: Re: 'WIDE A WAKE' a steam launch tale
Post by: Jasonb on August 26, 2016, 07:36:04 AM
That seems a lot of work for the servo saver, any particular reason why you could not have the springs either side of the reversing lever on the engine and the other end of the linkage straight off the servo, this is the way I mostly did it with the throttle and brake on the RC buggies.

Looking good though and one step closer to the waters edge :)
Title: Re: 'WIDE A WAKE' a steam launch tale
Post by: Robert Hornby on August 26, 2016, 07:47:15 AM
I love your approach to the addition of the RC units. I will need to do this later on and will take plenty of inspiration from "Wide a Wake"
Robert
Title: Re: 'WIDE A WAKE' a steam launch tale
Post by: Ramon on August 26, 2016, 09:52:45 PM
Jason - that was the original intention until I realised that the two lay shaft levers were fixed in position (pinned and loctited - Ha, what was that precept of never making anything that could not be taken apart  ::). To get a pivoting bush in the 5mm gap would not have been possible without drilling across the push rod hole somewhat defeating the principle.

Thanks for your comments guys - glad that even something mundane like servo installation has been of interest  ;)

Back soon - Ramon
Title: Re: 'WIDE A WAKE' a steam launch tale
Post by: K.B.C on August 26, 2016, 11:09:57 PM
Jason - that was the original intention until I realised that the two lay shaft levers were fixed in position (pinned and loctited - Ha, what was that precept of never making anything that could not be taken apart  ::). To get a pivoting bush in the 5mm gap would not have been possible without drilling across the push rod hole somewhat defeating the principle.

Thanks for your comments guys - glad that even something mundane like servo installation has been of interest  ;)

Back soon - Ramon

Hi Ramon,
Did you use the Steel geared high torque servo, I used one on my D10 which completely did away with the vibration of the layshaft lever without the use of a Servo saver with no adverse effect on the servo.

Very neat installation looking forward to Launch day, have the invitations been sent out yet.

George.
Title: Re: 'WIDE A WAKE' a steam launch tale
Post by: Ramon on August 27, 2016, 05:47:38 PM
Hi George - I did get a Hitec high torque servo out to fit but decided to try a standard servo first as the movement seemed so easy. I'll see how it goes and keep the HT version in reserve.

The new plan is for the launch to take place on the 17th - it was the 10th but our friends Peter and Ros can't make it. Peter has taken a keen interest in the boat since it's inception. You are cordially invited George but it's a long drive so will understand if you decline  ;). Today the wife of one of our yachting members presented me with some bunting she has made for it so it has to happen now :)

It will be a red letter weekend too as my Sue retires on the 16th  :) :)

Regards - Ramon
Title: Re: 'WIDE A WAKE' a steam launch tale
Post by: Ramon on September 11, 2016, 09:01:51 PM
Hi Guys

Well, I'm really pleased to be able to tell you that this particular journey is well and truly over  :) I made the very last thing tonight - oh yes indeed-y  ;D,

Thank goodness (or perhaps something very similar) for that I hear you say  ;D

Last few days has seen the pseudo locker made to cover the throttle servo. This was built from 1/16 birch plywoood then 'veneered' with 1/32 mahogany sheet. Incidentally a good friend provided not one but four lovely Futaba mini servos (thanks Alan  :ThumbsUp:) so the micro one was swapped out which meant an all new mount and only just being able to get it under said locker. The outlet 'ventilation' hole had to be enlarged somewhat to accommodate the new servo rod position which then looked out of place on it's own so the second is for symmetry - well overscale but I'll have to live with it.
(https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/DVd5gyRSx-mRRDUo6qCIFrsluBnc1E8PSZrkku2IovlhJwoZiaGRRhu8vgZEFD2AQR93nWuWPVhnPI6HMMx90d54PlEfMwf9xHSxV-xmvN0bbjOl4sxL0WQEEHAvxyhu5rVOhH8KGTsdmma98kW1ThwAmJxs6FSIaQirR-6U5-VDaTxJ-h9v9OxZaB5RZ_cU04p-UN5DFPFJbjNa9L6TlkWETPCU_F9-hK6kCPF76aEQtxjfEc_uC-z2PkPzBcsOV36a98S_k78CE35Gr01DwsIENMxNzMaYtP4jjAizFSimSFzpSNmSxhJQLMOgxz8yj1TA5Eu2UUCu3pXVEBq6HGmpelNGrLLN87IA_C5OrJnHBsyQwOqvoxEjJ3m0WP2A-yGpBBLK8gWGAucFVOD74Z9s4PPRW1_OeVAYhF5MMwHdP3vShe-7nnOaitANqT1rM0A237DDIHNn9adjGZWstBSW8FjFU4e4yx6YnB0DHfwIuN9BwqDzunwL0cCsG9e1V2IT_4jGXxVCzPGLeGsvrIy6WHszG4x7MnHMyXgTa9LvpCw-10o9td4Nok3glOv3etV8H7OlkeZyuGvzIXNV1FoiQlGpHq9iDxIvq0ZZCJ8NYlX4=w1231-h923-no)

Next up were some floorboards for the after well. Made from Bass wood the dummy bolt hole plugs were done using cocktail sticks, glued in then pared off flush.
(https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/e31fozLZBFRReqZo_n66oP8tVi2XFeZTlRG1I3mWKe7qMuN9z2X2EnxSYXeB0YYD7EW1FXEHzjbsgDNitllxPrNMimVJPRZ1_a1wU5Z-rcn7_QYMBqJZ76hhIs2KzShwtO17BdplM9A1MezUw02Cr6RVpWaEUdHCNMwr0RtleR1P91ynI-y238OhYZJ1wxCIjqi0wmz8n-oc1ZpHoNSuubm0025mJI6xiFL5QHQqEzT5IMs0na-4GHPxV9zFkZ79VLRwjNtVWsoDe7oWA6EVzKhdN_jFc39LcRgTz42cx35FqGtUQY6srNKi5xPSpq2VuG3lzhalgyRSEkN8MRmX6QEutfSZJ9_WBFENYVdnMdsCtD88mPHRNHnWoOT-iX0dhltQOG1t13__KGpIzOaoT7qAGN1jjYyQ8f_8idKImSL7zfVioJaxcV1pMhm_N9Sd-4OA_sR1J4YDwlTCtDX4VLbEFg_ey_-wvZrkP_BxMBYi_JYs7QvupjJxFGOacFC3b1fyKoWI4NTt9l4BYSEZTajRKCa1doBQtdpMfFhW1IqynTEOA-ORBcgTEnVOmFagJyYC1pzi_Lzer_RxuY3OqNnoWrzEMtAZ2di4A4BORE9zcBMa=w1231-h923-no)

A box cover was made for the rudder linkage and the top finished as per the deck - lime planks and card caulking. Also made from ply with a 'veneer' outer.
(https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/JSt4eVlGfbaIPCiInSHYW6qjRbyeHSnYmMvJ0gs40bPDhXiel7aNgRtnMF-uDwfv0Tycyr1boA8vqkZ9MUyKEepiq7fQU1v75jHxfJO3HJY3il4q_tZhT8sK0z1fxImYkjYaqpi29XkoidC4Y7c6qwHr9tnEpT52_UZCZpUhQ_NmsnWwfuvH3VXpexUolWZD7HbrMXaV2p5GsWvtgLlHyXvsKdrK9LuWibCyOrXueyXq4J1wKUcLaqshna8fwMpsVBsQy7F9Rk-HbyIioArdeunJTntkymgaXS_-riVgPMbg2YP7t8lkrFkYfh5A4sSGEMD8Ni7MNDoqkokFI8XtrbRBQEl-ItgEVSZ_Bfe4ZSvf_6k-BEGrPblmM9DD_pAXDyDcRy2W5924aLbwHBpFDM-DACPAUawilSIhx-MAz6HwWXKe6hOl9JBlVC6jGZcNWme47Llkah0cox4Yk6ZFhP_Dx42ciHH2sCssisgHWhBIfnxZA9ZWjv1MQIczJkSU1fyIkCYePqUixc8b-poeDasl8DR55jXw-EMyu4gw6PYKPi8X9JN8KRRIkZ2u1ZzXR5QbHIEUTzKCPSnKSBg5YTxGrI8ZpNnh4Ze37MqSsxsOnTm6=w1231-h923-no)

I really enjoyed making these two 'cosmetic' parts - Though it looks little more than a dowel I did in fact 'turn' the boat hook shaft from 3/8 square lime using the self centering four jaw and doing a short piece at a time. Finally finishing off with a mill file and fine abrasive paper I was well pleased to see it come out straight and even :o The anchor parts were turned from nickel silver, silver soldered together then 'rough'filed in an attempt to give it a forged look.
(https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/6qTogdnPxwFerF-WI-SLVbENRAYUfx53vfBtMSW6VFFDiGI9Cw1Ue7RrrSb62McxYj9hNSNrfZLqAwkLjqHPtEkvr1HjfvflRvc6ehD3T6DRcgrKuGPjUPW4BOIDFEo7VZ3rQvmF_-tQcPgy1ZKwnVC86xkEYLBzKH9Mt-98fWLU7Jj22BKxp5vDexr8WXZLj676N4dP1EjUD4oLCnzDspw2PeFFn3RQrD4UdLefGQkBND2G9o8tXRXcz-yTRQoiGVpVqhFunEwVOm56INPjz2ScVnkdU6_01cSXisp3OTY5L0Vz83oiVRv1BWrAq-uN1JHRsCFsbmPYs3m8Jt3lZZvADV3KTAR97ycHFI-5rdKvgE8fTsgLa5CwF8jISjDSZNflwbek9uNyGBfLPKLi9Ctdo2x3YMFsK0R1T4ea5n8S0NFuYXRH74xsR89aS1vuCome_5bibPfswoPCqTxkR13Vs8GXbHjhOw3bkbgjmPGhrOAJRuzlGT74vO8g3eQx4U8Uy0d06NpwyW4s7tCg8eDGBER-3TFiUfYhXuPMP35P3sHe_dEPcxSiizDZj3nRuZtyTiI6lHi197O0-31abehsQSpRq0bR5MzzatHFY3o8dty8=w1231-h923-no)

And this little part, a ring for the anchor line, is the most significant of all for it is indeed the very last part of the project  :D
(https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/MAkCMTIRpJWq1vel46eNjOwod0MzayMzxKDOfWqTpEwUhrBjsN1gJb0pnj4vIvyWTa07E7A7xkm2UZTurUks5pwHdfvBGuEWW5SgzUg5EhEVJmQKiMcDYZS8xi3Ggz4SZnSD5itect9Ir9eN-YVODmgEk6XFTIT1CDh9LoSW1V4QxJ7hfDVdVcwU6JJYx59ZR9SWtKhmFfITsfyqOyaTXM3w1J3DwSsThNbTn6fg594lM82KsYPpx6gy20P6zHIhw4GfhxkQEzdLuhXkd8fb45YR_wnsnzpA6Yvea81MdIjXPiwPaAzYOMkmsvi_WI8QAkYzZJwiicgHCGe8fl1zQ1SHq3ROkXrYi5SqXWjsMZyPly6NjpgrRLP9-dlo67J_aba6Nnjt4KfuW6O1WoJTfACTKmN_s5nXRuUrFasgagayvRMHqLpNPUpt2nmnpH377pPkpUk9aMNwR2wXs_w_YwCrU75qmoP0K3pW5jqKCxr-zMYUDPjAwcSnQ4zMHhfd55Li4kHUwJaueQeCYGOr1U301p7bRF-Ad-e4WdIf69iSwdbydhk5rPQs-orHFTIsOr3Ighrl2PnMYko82iSQSEcBtonMlKv-_BfW0A_nrIcKNzZN=w1231-h923-no)

Today I made a trolley on which to transport it - it's not so much heavy (though heavy enough) as awkward so that will be a big help.
Last of all is to make a nice display stand for indoors where it will live post launching. For that I have these two really nice pieces of timber from my good and well meaning friend Peter - Thanks 'Barney' most generous of you  :ThumbsUp:
(https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/VOT_LU4JeyRBq6hylPthOzg9K66tM8S6xGecGBeSM9gzeqotxPYf_kwZ8dWF21BQGu3cG2F3-CGPAizvKozO14WIGdvMhcp8KwAZ-XzHIcTBUjl6pu-DVK_BZEM27QvzUwjOpNQ6Te0dxT39XLRdsRMQf_HuAA7TwfmkKPv80VAaqPh5kVkVP0Jl6QJXI2RjRPFRhsG3gRtTxPk1FBrCWg8HVdCs8scDuMWasXGwDlPs9xE5BRsxv7jT20q5RzYQgFC4b_cD3ncsV7uCcqSPH7JadgUMGCJ8bMbRunp73kWOg52pOt3OKB4knNyuiK1eNVBNlTrP8UOxWCJbN15pJeoFfSWeORZVco9KU2ltPDn5QUFTrCyJuOr9_AVWAsHe9FuB_zYJQH4FhAXWi3IL13pdbKKqphuW-QI-fyKC9w6PQ09id8PYmD1gF19LuMwq7xk5KioyaUdkKetk0RMjBep6W4WFZ_9j1IUsgdh4nVSSFTZFL3ecnBGWjiNyc_4yPcrJRlsEJt4WvWiFZyH3FBTXkcoIYMHGCfBxFRZ0uE7uvqCZ8EDNSZNKPF1eW6BrCEm8sU7FU8bRlvs0muozdsrlm-jhgjuzFZuPc20lr_vfLgQz=w1231-h923-no)

Tomorrow, if the weather is suitable, I shall get it outside and take some all round pics of it in better light but apart from that and one or two pics from next Saturdays wetting that, I'm afraid, is it.

Regards - Ramon
Title: Re: 'WIDE A WAKE' a steam launch tale
Post by: crueby on September 11, 2016, 09:43:25 PM
Pay no attention to the servo behind the curtain!   :Lol:

Its been an awesome build, looking forward to seeing it go!!
Title: Re: 'WIDE A WAKE' a steam launch tale
Post by: b.lindsey on September 12, 2016, 01:01:09 AM
Sad to see it end Ramon, but still looking forward to seeing the maiden run!! Well done on all the finishing and cosmetic bits too!!

Bill
Title: Re: 'WIDE A WAKE' a steam launch tale
Post by: 10KPete on September 12, 2016, 01:51:28 AM
Oh, it's not over yet. The dry run, the launch, sea trials, debugging, sea trials, clean up, display..... Another run.....

Over? Not hardly!!   :ROFL:

 :cheers:

Pete
Title: Re: 'WIDE A WAKE' a steam launch tale
Post by: Steamer5 on September 12, 2016, 06:33:11 AM
Hi Ramon,
 Oh no it can't be over! I'm with Pete, once you have her running sweet I'm sure that there are many here who would like an update occasionally.
Thank you for taking us along on this joinery!

Cheers Kerrin
Title: Re: 'WIDE A WAKE' a steam launch tale
Post by: Jasonb on September 12, 2016, 12:39:52 PM
Looks good Ramon though I thought you might have gone the whole hog and sourced some cotton braided servo wires ;)
Title: Re: 'WIDE A WAKE' a steam launch tale
Post by: Admiral_dk on September 12, 2016, 09:45:15 PM
A fantastic and very enjoyable journey is coming to the end for us following it  :praise2:

I haven't commented as I had nothing to ask nor contribute - I will miss this saga, but I can hope that you go back to more diesels  ;)
Title: Re: 'WIDE A WAKE' a steam launch tale
Post by: crueby on September 12, 2016, 11:25:07 PM
Are you going to follow up this awesome build with one of the big steam yacht that this launch takes passengers out to?!   :ThumbsUp:
Title: Re: 'WIDE A WAKE' a steam launch tale
Post by: Ramon on September 12, 2016, 11:25:55 PM
Hi Guys

Well, today seemed very strange with nothing much to do save having a dry run in getting it into (and out of) the car (easier than anticipated) and a good clean up in the workshop.

Some chain and rope arrived for the anchor but the rope looked over scale. I've pressed some rather loosely wound  ship-model rope into service whilst some smaller section rope wings its way from Serbia of all places - amazing what Ebay has to offer.

Anyway - as promised a few pics of various parts of the boat taken out in the late afternoon sunshine - I'll let them do the talkin'

(https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/cXas_jdGi3uDleArxK7-eJjdMs-M5b3s3fKkDYBuoHsgndmq9AMmXF6Ibpj_qv0TZ6glDH3fXDTE4NStbYPO2i9e1KfxEs917OdV6HwP1Z6mclO-CL1pzyaOQeTEil7KVZxtsfM1AplNzF3tgdjYWqMQqJqgNtn4ISWpyuLnz1nofIPPF14KaciuYxzQO0vy2JoKCP4AspIDmAVFTab6ymWyABsckq0zMVBUKceFhNPC4qse3Zdj-QjKqStFjxfIWx--m0UEc1XmPk_hnMUY_cTW9S8rEdwgMf4isFl3WpO9aSjcSm06L8KDsX0wpS3mJCcqtivL4SRKhFD3DHD67tnL-iv6ouvZ5rGqj00RLsjv9LWijg3AxfB8Kj36vCKO_c5lPDNoE7-UqHr_Qj_BvO0bwI8ddXHR--W-iF7OtwDUUKGZg-GeFCiPQSN9WWoBJ2IaDO8Qt8A6zZyaTZ1mX-NVgDpMPRkEhlMi0IdqTDizeyH_y8C3-yU8VxA5mreX6jrREj_vuz9k4GgQ9mOPRxjf4yp4pkRGoXevO_5Mu618_YsIW1808hcV5reeEdL1I9Iup_4HkoxhE1GWTl09zEQGZN5TpYD5qsTnulTH7VN4FEU-=w1231-h923-no)

(https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/APOvpbhmvD93k1JH39MAJ1gNZlIKHVS2wAOvlh5ROe9Y1JSxyEPeIXAX-iTF8yC4erhqE1Zg_oW86oNBYhmpif9f_jv1YjpGHCYSaE4CBHoSbcItqKeKLyPF9KGQQakoWf2AtUOOXUmdsh6cMveyJ6TsbvwocEtY3y1O0A_fTVTNLTu9z77Qjkoi8fhBkRRgKR12WVvRpFGpA0xEN0u8aRxRdxaN4GxTw9spEuYlUsKG6tF2usqPMePK9xrYIsZuka2T1VnxKh3EqSZUSmD0swHbTtcj_JLM6WMAOZUeN-ql8dI__eVUPidePrXtPEjR1FqdHZgxZ5Id_X6kkQFHFQA5d98LzEAeXE5oKlMjdW38r93iwzBaMa36KNahLKgRSENp9J_qZeU010u2obFD6o1Rk9YeQdmcAzyj9krLzZAk8YNP9J-GMxq12luOgTDPGHdav-Lsujm1cIIWpETjhsS0SLBXciV6kzXwXK6h-nxUI4o0zsol32vljntl57GoKTNz7UBTcMsFZiNy3q97wZadSjDecO_aEWNGAkqhPdKrFsytfekNPbysMy54EhXwqEVFVo7c-vJSXMTMZWNd2SK2EoxsFrNjOqwBFKnG8u6O2gpg=w1231-h923-no)

(https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/W47q557j2QtSTruVqE3iuTY9FYHOQSKtewxM4x7-625uR1BEOSoEDhm3tFN1E69d-owSygZ8_UyalUVP7USu1-NLTtH1q7IuXe48Zy5hv-ZJKw13LacM3UlNJXXnba1IjfnMZzPwhbg6v0_T2qI1EzYdt-pY6hsL3eoiYtxZK6UxtvKa_6_hxtMwiFt7X5Y2_tAn2oFKDnlJbPKmao73I7Gr5QNINLXd6luKxGcZf8U4rJTNsvodPg-_5SsiZl-x0eHV5qwFYj8T2EYjsvwV-bZezEPql7XJnV1Aa1tEaiTTtUhk2sNY2BrsLsSkMwnd6Dsnhklthu6DcoUm4Eld6IlKq1POOHP4qNOTt5VQxp7KdVUDSQx5ozgbSNv9avYj3vaGjgVTk655nMG_oHEuyLqXAHT8S72DHQ-awzdYr5BU9ZF-exMwtJm8Pv_ywaiV-b0TMS6IK6sJ8Lw19nGGs2h3fHoXmu-AOHKbxjWfIMfeydyzV1vwyOSIvQJYHrusJB1pjoTHkcFTkgrlf_YoEyJi462JUcdJIRsRQyFeZy6WOpXX7fQvBLkn78435AStjao7g32u_lwbNocCZCyEcisCeYydDMXymoZqocgXAjJGZ1Jg=w1231-h923-no)

(https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/dHicOujPoMyjZ07sHlpz62AwgZW_Qo_ljzCt4pfYPrMTwfkD8etJ7nLHM0LCGoHnMmXIgGA6fP2-nCveSvhp-CrbxHQ4xqmZvD0Yp6zZqj8xLzHE2L0lygGySReYeYjdbKBQqVCYCxR1j0BrH0GBwzw3TOBcm77DS_2YaULGsLLVM5wotTViYfGeB7p5Xg8_w_ncKXtw7m_w9TMoaYTQC9PCnOpy48md4kzSGY0nbqbTkJkclsB5a1sp1vELJhRqOMwFFYjk_V384QkHDi9IcHbY1fXo7riXbqmO6MtkstTQoM6Jpb0ZTUe8Y8SQ4UI8zcd8yzulqp1Q5AhXaBEEjk3TVcTezF6h8Gg_m26ExHhJwVoAaauLiEYBRDN0qzSAK85NknC4yzzk7obqQWuHmoulQkh2zah8tNG6g7_GXh_762sW_dYIEzwPxfs4-rTAwq3i9QEaFBXd7Cp7hJF9PRT1aWH_OFul-8Kytf9l8xa8AB7o6qYgKuSmltzFF2kPbQD4c_mgLvSarXQSvyAZbHqoV6cO7XFMUPMYfvviAHyfcQdfMrJtEsO1nx39zzIaazgAN2Bu6_GWdQ5BlhBqk4rri-yxaS12kRFEz6xpAb4-xqYs=w1231-h923-no)

(https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/OWjfBSVZkw5L5ZyOZJNw09HeER3L6p31ARxMvmAnFHwJplU_vBh6XdRoV_Z03x2S8o-vzPN-83WC8xo8VmVWvUQ8JKV19q2-92W7hUMeWXeXIDkANDt1dxRKGHyMRUJqrfKmRThg3RpeLJC7p5CEGdFngh67GKv5Wo1LyVkaWkjDyp7tG6DZD6Q-rPLritVcZHDZVpuYrQPUZpueYQFJXnIhN7xWL5j4QWAb9zOttR9Ydo4JKakhvLgW-LjogtN8NclnnUVlRvpMWgtr3tVEFLlHJvskZkCLA_rJbsEUKQGfAdL9NBKdupRE0UhrNvG-sUW6RrV9cf7DdhfC4ZBEWbJTHguaCqhENliHiQgtXnH5KvXLt7L1NMdDKEkO3o3Q1ysXavBCUmRoEX8au1pp2Sm7ae_lDzokM7LMyGxJN09__fFC8fGSa_p8v6l4rIYSP-qGKjUrLkNh8dPZRaE7lwifFfn-NuQ_ydi_4CeetUzsJuyzdROITRf-TJzb1XHzgEYCDNXBPKCWSh6Sbhui1w7QtXFjm6Kg1XthSWbtyYUt8ZMkQAkxm5zljXpfeU8jQSZCZd_xP_ule7b_oBeXaLNWNywZue96L0U3jXc7tANd0_9T=w1231-h923-no)

(https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/g0yf5zpaaDLBVPLQOhJ2T2ZKf04gg-LtlEmJdjrJKiZ_iuk7RciLCwQrTEGpvMa9gF69jFQ4-qO23a7qc7yIOMYLOeO2mqNqqQsdKafuArFyLpuCamgGj3rFsx--nTbcdIQMnNoiGz3fkZ0YPZu0yZLKnYfQe1lYBh517XqWv5K2rV1V4svT2rb8eybo5638MAohDpU1anDhG6oP3RaP0MbakML4Tbw2ExHfDEkBHutSBQe0eeNEngAtd1V8JQxxKabDZLunS1GJPe38IJUVyLsUHHCs4oQNquYOVXtPI9Li_b5g055WdesBL0Mb2I8SitsJNMwh8kahisXawueaKqY-iY_lz2ueYePlKu3HY2pAcXCG3HNW-4JCrY3WQmdbXuQVN1HbrYxSZj9zok78qUSe8JbpNP-VJLJM3nGk1t-Qk3qsX6um1FH5Z-5TZFSqsYPwDGQCDJuZSmPLDlkycuApctIj6a5j4zqwf8ONajPbR00xeT3UkD2nTZ0oZLFJKOmyfaqAomB5uoGWGl3xG7huMfzD_LyUv6pV_nCsRcHnkKfqwAKFmtLL0EDDFOacg2AZBPurQFzuxOgXlzFlh_PHukM1UrwEPrV1lty_7eYKrQyW=w1231-h923-no)

(https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/83uPSIwuLABLBEdTaGyPDYLZXovBeoq5I557pBcDOWdyah5yAt6sa-KNLTfXV1yXxR30Vh3pqHK4iHujLqfWZ098DMiZioenj5mq_FYhwhOi3_AlB0wHuxnqlstKDxqxr2Qj_1CmygSP_g-rRL_pDZTsndqYK4jQhU5rFomtgK0F78NlSYZn0awd-ZZ7zbvtcrNpGLds1qzMreOP8vOqzF4lFUjSkuUyE4E1PX7xqQFNXhgGX3kFYjS1LWQdKiOXV2TujbFfNo5UWef2lCUPAAtDwXHG2GvR7tzzTAyQO1znqjxZAIEE6TfKMfRX7JTDTuQUEZFsvrpjdcudT3LbulGoiZ7cM2kRybJP5M1jp53rsti66pgKQgWrd9J6rY48DqzqUbX2YEjcEwhdPjiK0Rjc55bwVzD6jeC53k7_zFRpEJ4-mJ96ukWPaK1tbtk9KNFnhzao8hIgo4InuSWXsWzuw6YcW-lLs1BJxq3ww55qQVfDjzzDz6KoBEdIDhPXH4RuCuC1y_2fKgLgBWdxpMFZUmukPbUQI4uIf5RNFKDGwwiRqcS6TuRydQ65Nw75v3abqBJ5RDpcgw0Y519UJh_ftulcXCbQq-lHiNNJxQDFk8Ho=w1231-h923-no)

(https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/Op_jIH380pICqPoOj9wNts5zY02bv5TzFwo_UlZzxyq7V0TE-q9ZEQOmJPzmr8ZTiBv2rixRtt4XF5LsregevKXEtjlQsB0lnOm_bSaP37EQpYImDbQDdGxOSpefkqLuv1lyQ00jeHJiFS1UoF5lPeY7WC08BLPmuRubOunQ10-SSU_NhmzE9lHzT4ggB2qkbSulZKaU6wXMmzpI21bPaVM6nkEbtOALaU0oFoI5vfBqy272j15s_oeVoMF1S5RfHii5UwTz10eewZ70_c9mT7G_J4IoYCu4PSahGRiZxLdvtnzqahe9SQAB0m-c3_iiO4Awgt7qzn3JbXbTkeKFjUUnqC6GkV6R8FWvYclM8JCdEVRNNHP5owadlaPI_wsH5WnrqIbxVMWLhZ46U5WQWfoxiM1I3x7eRgR1iQo-QxFmOMfOV2TsuCuOhCbV37h_ifcPIF-CfbJKi0JVD-Flr4kt6SX-25XDbmzm40zPWVpEAJNIGyOQcvOw3Z05wl678S83aV9zm1Sm4zaIHJfCRY2Fmmm3zkLhors_CTc4Fdhf-w77IK3DiouALQnoZqsy5pe4EOOx3tmbav9necxKfpQQeeHkCKL69Hh4scfJQpdLfGOz=w1231-h923-no)

(https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/x6mxOJfGidVVR8yopun787oqGcoWByhysYbRnWvqGglbY7QTmB_Zmd5LftLdfZT4-y-FebeGpn330AtGLAeCWsSzOnVQFaNv6qjybUzcD1OTSvQjSWZ4NXhJhTUVse7f-NPdFDIYj5XqGGQipLeNxLDLH65qnALdO3sl2c5SyaikjE9Kv0JdJID2mEFdgXBESStwyDaat3ycQHjWZ0P3cRMuSc0944vWPFI35EJGQ-3ZxZupP5JokLMNx_WSEf3fO_EYnjInk80N4H8-B0apTQl8lgtQZxohzOB1XKms_Byh8rd6wKMntcx8lxpKvUbW5McJ0wuMvNYFGPvX6Lhib3MYOG5rRPSXajr6HI_ncsYnhJtL1ZoHpeacU1v7WVnsaQq_PABvZwrm4stQc0CtBqyo-YHdT-7iar6fMyNWy93aAcNu5TZj_FPMNljQf8Z5CglzDH2HLNe3DEya6jRf1BUwdqu7ENtDupVexV-OCVfWYIsvVclOs0Y5tFfhNf9O_6BKEknCXjNY6EYGL3ImD6X6FSWZ41H2QLEmtff6P9U-5iXUSuFH6v1jbTmaF_CDNEMzRrAvqojwi_WAYNnx3szsonfWlanHxKCF_KJ8rlFeQWoe=w1231-h923-no)

(https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/SUaVCpbrtVckGLTEWeFeWdvTpAgHZ52X5LORioxPCMpksYQAJB12bWysioy9KNjQd8f7jbL4XgFAgLJPpQq8tYGOxS9DhjLKfemXu90hlrEpQ84S714IiPXARZS0PIw7ts9BFapE0dkyQzBwpGXtCnAiQQh94na_blyFsMuEEenISs_N9AcgS0myaH3YQiVC0FH2hY4v9dfNYvW8plQw2Tumz0AJTDK1vU9w2CeNSxoajqhBEEcSfwmYbFuB7JApJVT75QgHUGU8BCottcxpH2ALLd6BcY-N4oVfW1-wGVC07pIOGW0kcKds2n5V0eJnOFtrfNU293i28cH-hw4sqiKI5Z6cQ54baRpbSZUSM_LU5nOESMMIiXdH5Y8LoaL78hN00Em1YqF6adEu1ZB20hxpFPkmPN-RPO4CNTTkLA6NvPAOpzNGvc0wFC4_jMfMWRJP0Y46e2n9Pr4TDTOyqm-EPfZPvvIPd87l5AtuoF6CTRQMWF7_w9ZRr2zOu1yLH_bMe_QicP60-YCFiNCl-paR-FPzKwmUOZg8UTv5BHs2kBGWEYUQl7XQsDBdM7BaRUxCn9keLWAyuwxGw3d4r0qlHO2CqAzxdpHCOJ2tHtXNpTuz=w1231-h923-no)

(https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/kBwXZBoRl6Qlla_RFCXfwfeGUaDaS1Xee2Mz0Pyu1DmjVR5TVjg6tzEcemTkBTdTb7aE6EiuaTrIVd6nmfOK71ZNcgJZzP2xFtE-lI0Rh13bY_nqPPWTiku6rLjKRFUaeE62If7tUGES6mkzdwv09oS6BxLuOyKtrsB135TPpqCVxfmlsE78jjYtwOdzHqM2YvbLR6U_G4CZES9HWBN8_mHEtrn85YOn20v0-ur5i9A0MnM5XNmy7vNV-VfoEiu-a3yF9UEfj27R0AQEFZlcE360rdvqURKub5wooFWjMv93fXTuUn1cONBZUF1y6K-t1D32hsEMwNGRZqr9iX7O5JISuFVGkD7AW5cRMg7MdJYsKS1jYDScJP82Im9cuFt0Sq50kEN17gWl1U6srzVM7Ix5xOIovvxOPsPRGRBDsQjZb5mf1F5edxEbqRReg9ObZSgZaRuBd87ybFGCZzjMOn7ny0SiN6G1e3R3HmC-6E7awHn-dFB16x8i_MIDiqom55D5m46iI3Sy1yZlEfiYhaTXRqH0meC4dXb9_LiaBJphfjwBR1ycIBmsQJ7lK902fdwOryMR6gon0SovF7xDZH4rUSVlJzm7C2Qvy-jYwLE2FfUh=w1231-h923-no)

(https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/E04yKchPj2oSPExIGsnO7XP4UMUHaGn-Sib4-I7udDiRtG1BrJGDFFqhNSTxLSw9PqY9DQFGI167SbAPm_ocizlnN_LUYXTPIe8Hvg69kc7TgxKlmv5tcbRerB9ycWd5IkdISShBoKeEn3scuGAWJZW1sRindoNZVVOV4w6p4poc1fxtE0xGdpy3Nz8E5FzYhwyN8l6Ys5Zb8l-YJ-dIB9yt-88P8E1Ee6OoXxe5tNaQaNQd1YpXNqFHg_lgy4N3UaiHdqCcyvuVbY90_sGmbXHU2mxs4Z9LuMu_OrfQ_RD_Z8kum95p6hy8N-xxRsC7LZGOjvmEAr26r-x7Z2syuBTX-LgT22YltWr1fM1CFbIKr0f05kagcWTg3ma8mGHagT5c1ZEgdfBkib5BJZ30NDpS-jzCIUKl4s4IT1zk8R5Ic7NXhQjsay0fCzsOfbgcZz37Y7SpSYDKBtap6Vu9qWXEis5m6yG-qrOAg1Mn_hlqlh14NFWSWr_RrLfqIFvLmOTfXoRvyPg47KyxuWHv7ifjWMf8J4xu8gLKthVlEGtFOH44NGGTE7dwKt9Kfmq_HWWQAx5F8fVWHrZW0LXcz86nMK-4adNq7FFmYBGA0-n7SH27=w1231-h923-no)

(https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/sEvdFbOsLtqkqOnfAlf5uuLui_WDlm4qQp5yw7h0sU7vKmRHrrjTUkNU0HUyMyeI33TQ2B8q5sgRoDfC2CxDCvZkEQSYsa959sT2Nieyp0heLJRc0WEIsMrULvVqMgz2_XlhuhjpupRHmDFvYq9deT4Mvt2TQb07wzTus0Ag0Olk5AXnRTaMfkB82yAPWLoqiuoOTGobddvXQkdDZqw2hcejJwLhEm_5v4lZmr3BClfTi1YTja-2OryyaBfa4wlb4x_oQuyCf-MpTRIbcAjxG3BQM28jxArQFzsa8qMmYFovpd0d3hOC9nFTRwwelt_3rHwOzk5zTi3hNdGW52x1pCMmIRP779mrWwsEhs9by4LFR-kEl3b6GzOH-M9Kl4sphmOJlvfqcaGYcgUVRQi0U_WKZ1BMXYTatdQ89mzERjgk6kumFfEUAEtioAlT0ovBuqCe6e9rJuyE23vsX13Bxblx7cmqfuZwUdN6zRnTua5uAAT2uflXQmLn-fivSgGEEms5kCL82Wu6EljER9dxsGqYU0502X6T1ZBhO463Omam_vlbj80IaBNSgOqDqIywcsVhm7I--QAGQVQhkOtXW4C08vr-6yjw3uQcOlcWQL_Qh6nC=w1231-h923-no)

(https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/OHd0DExECkaTmBP8_jBU5PrarG8CGNMSQImW23s_uVy-RGVbFG7wEomtJiI9B4lpuB8r0SX_75Vrl24PDSXagHOpJCaz31jw0dBeEBrtYB_leim5WNWvBzurHOD0KlIem6CjVuzQcz5jScF3AxVfkS1NaKVPHd8Q_IIKpddBU_53-T9m6tVz5cVS9oBbzHxT80Hy42f798qapHrOmqZwp4TIUcOXA6p-QwDi5WvX5GZG-rLZb7VmyMQwQ6HIHexc2_q4SHuDOTdQ1IK-iYVd7IgM6WZGDpYTGw7KPbgNqJ3XBNp-7exPY2muCFFdiz-us-aLV8Iy9UWnB0_QKz2qC_MDPL8lq4jhQKsND4nqrzpb-4iqQmySHangYCQDqGi5--1utkI9PcjzdpBJEsnpePszpew8eV8OL4HkL8ECi6ph3KkCAQ0YJ8beJLgxXlgRgbmhSgyjARvfckSp4MMElX9iNnzt-LnBQo8ZRA7cGuC1wAMmtcZBsDwqdswtuYS7-mG6ip3aTT6Rp6mVxGUf0uoyQNBK-uZljbcVwMUt18VmSi0xuJEQ-cgYEvjhOgdICIxdB6b_R42_M102qNarQp6yzfi09N8Vl7UEIyUaOrfCiDmt=w1231-h923-no)



Well, I'm really sorry if it disappoints folks but that really is 'journeys end' on this build. To put that into perspective, you've had 420 images posted not to mention the text. With several photos taken per image posted, the selection of those alone adds up to a fair input of time. I was determined to see the job through but have to tell you I feel quite jaded and fully justified in saying 'I'm plumb tuckered out' with posting - I hope that will be appreciated.

A sincere thanks to all who found time to comment and make such kind remarks over the three years this has been running. A special thanks to George (K.B.C.) - and an even bigger thanks to Sandy (SandCam) for the phenomenal work he did on the boiler design and calculations. Thanks too, to Gill (Model Steam's wife) for making the fenders that finally finished it off today not to mention of course my good wife Sue who has put up with my disappearances in the workshop with her usual good natured tolerance to my modelling ventures.

Everything is ready for Saturday - even the weather forecast looks reasonable. I will come back with some pics of the launching

but for this thread I have to say - C'est Finis

Regards - Ramon
Title: Re: 'WIDE A WAKE' a steam launch tale
Post by: Maryak on September 13, 2016, 12:15:35 AM
Ramon,

I'm Speechless, if not wordless :NotWorthy: :NotWorthy: :praise2: :NotWorthy: :praise2: :NotWorthy: :NotWorthy: .

Kind Regards
Bob
Title: Re: 'WIDE A WAKE' a steam launch tale
Post by: b.lindsey on September 13, 2016, 12:46:21 AM
It's gorgeous Ramon. Just amazing!!!

Bill
Title: Re: 'WIDE A WAKE' a steam launch tale
Post by: bruedney on September 13, 2016, 12:58:58 AM
If we had a model of the month section this would win hands down for a year.

Awesome simply awesome  :praise2: :praise2: :NotWorthy: :NotWorthy:

Cheers

Bruce
Title: Re: 'WIDE A WAKE' a steam launch tale
Post by: Flyboy Jim on September 13, 2016, 03:20:03 AM
Ramon,

Count me among the "totally blow away" by your project!  :ThumbsUp:

I'm looking forward to the launch pictures.

Jim
Title: Re: 'WIDE A WAKE' a steam launch tale
Post by: DTR on September 13, 2016, 05:26:34 AM
That is absolutely stunning
Title: Re: 'WIDE A WAKE' a steam launch tale
Post by: sco on September 13, 2016, 07:12:14 AM
Beautiful Ramon, truely you are a Master Craftsman!

Simon.
Title: Re: 'WIDE A WAKE' a steam launch tale
Post by: Jasonb on September 13, 2016, 07:38:03 AM
Thanks for taking us along the journey with you Ramon, look forward to the launch party photos and maybe even a video?

J
Title: Re: 'WIDE A WAKE' a steam launch tale
Post by: pgp001 on September 13, 2016, 08:04:31 AM
Not much more to add really, but just wanted to register my approval.
Well done Ramon, its a bobby dazzler  :ThumbsUp:

Phil
Title: Re: 'WIDE A WAKE' a steam launch tale
Post by: Steamer5 on September 13, 2016, 11:10:46 AM
Hi Ramon,
 Just lost for words!
She is truly a beautiful piece of craftsmanship!

Cheers Kerrin
Title: Re: 'WIDE A WAKE' a steam launch tale
Post by: mklotz on September 13, 2016, 02:25:25 PM
You mean to tell me you're going to let something that beautiful get WET!

All joking aside, it's a masterpiece of the art.  Be proud, very proud.
Title: Re: 'WIDE A WAKE' a steam launch tale
Post by: ozzie46 on September 13, 2016, 02:29:07 PM
I can't think of anything  else to add to what has already been said, so Excellent job.

waiting for the Vids.

 Ron
Title: Re: 'WIDE A WAKE' a steam launch tale
Post by: Don1966 on September 13, 2016, 07:07:00 PM
Ramon my friend I am a little late checking in, but have to voice with the rest very stunning the Wide awake is and a master craftsman you are. All the attention to delay you have put into this project really sets it above anything else. Thank you for the very educational and well documented thread. You are a true master and an inspiration to me and one of my hero. It would give you enjoyment for years to come. Happy sailing my friend..........I..........like........ :Love:

Don
Title: Re: 'WIDE A WAKE' a steam launch tale
Post by: fumopuc on September 13, 2016, 07:49:44 PM
Hi Ramon, what a beauty and perfect workmanships. Thanks for showing it to all of us. Hopefully a video will follow to see it in action.
Title: Re: 'WIDE A WAKE' a steam launch tale
Post by: Robert Hornby on September 13, 2016, 10:44:30 PM
Ramon,
Truly a work of art, the detail is a great credit to you and has resulted in a model second to none. I too am awaiting the sea trials with keen interest. Once again, well done Ramon. :ThumbsUp:
Title: Re: 'WIDE A WAKE' a steam launch tale
Post by: Ramon on September 13, 2016, 11:09:56 PM
Hi Guys

My thanks to all of you for taking the time to comment - it's been a long haul I know but I am truly pleased that you have enjoyed seeing and hearing about its progress over these past months. Thank you too for being such dedicated followers  :)

Yes Marv it has to get wet at least the once otherwise it's just an ornament  ;) - bit like an engine that doesn't work I suppose  so I hope that engine and boiler works as hoped on Saturday :D

My modelling interests and aspirations now lay far from what they were when I was first 'taken' by the images of this model in 1972 but I am glad I made the effort to at least give it a go to see how far I would get and of course, I am extremely pleased to have finished it completely.

I'll do my best to get some kind of video for you - but bear in mind there's a little bit more to keep the mind occupied than when dropping one of my yachts in the water  ;)

My thanks again

Regards - Ramon
Title: Re: 'WIDE A WAKE' a steam launch tale
Post by: Kim on September 14, 2016, 02:10:49 AM
I just want to add my appreciation for your work to the growing stack.  Your build has been very fun and educational to watch.  Thank you for taking the time and effort to share your work with us!
Kim
Title: Re: 'WIDE A WAKE' a steam launch tale
Post by: K.B.C on September 14, 2016, 11:42:15 PM
Ramon,
A really super finished boat and steam plant congratulations are due.

George.

P.S.
email sent
Title: Re: 'WIDE A WAKE' a steam launch tale
Post by: joe d on September 15, 2016, 12:31:38 AM
Ramon

I very much enjoyed following along, and the result is simply stunning.

Thank you!

Joe
Title: Re: 'WIDE A WAKE' a steam launch tale
Post by: Ramon on September 15, 2016, 07:42:06 AM
Kim, George, Joe,

Many thanks for your kind remarks. It's obviously very nice to be congratulated on the build itself but it's when I hear that it has been of use to someone I take most pleasure  :)

George - email received, will reply today

Today is Sues last day at work - hmmm!  this could have some serious effect on workshop time from here on  ;)

Regards - Ramon

Title: Re: 'WIDE A WAKE' a steam launch tale
Post by: Steamer5 on September 15, 2016, 09:07:49 AM
Hi Ramon,
 My wife decided to retire a year or so back. Now when I'm in the workshop a voice calls out.... "It's coffee time".... Or lunch or dinner. Haven't had to cook, or vacuum since! Can be recommended! Mind you the downside is the "to do list" can get longer!

Cheers Kerrin
Title: Re: 'WIDE A WAKE' a steam launch tale
Post by: wagnmkr on September 15, 2016, 11:37:41 AM
Absolutely Gorgeous!
Title: Re: 'WIDE A WAKE' a steam launch tale
Post by: bruedney on September 16, 2016, 12:05:16 AM
Hi Ramon

I too have a Stuart 10D to refurbish and I love what you did with yours.

I notice way back at post 452 you have some lovely drawings. Would you consider sharing those?

Cheers

Bruce
Title: Re: 'WIDE A WAKE' a steam launch tale
Post by: Ramon on September 16, 2016, 03:14:26 PM
Hi Bruce,

By all means however I have a slight problem in order to do so  ::)

Since drawing these using Autocad I have unfortunately lost the ability to open all my files (in Autocad). (Don't ask - sore point!!)

However I have downloaded 'Draftsight' which allows me access but these two files were drawn on A3 layout. Having opened them this morning the file is there but on, and well overlapping, an A4 background. I have not yet had the time to get familiarised with 'Draftsight' and though it is similar in some ways I don't know my way round it yet. Try as I might I could not find how to resize that background before going out this morning. The next two or three weeks do not look as if I will have any real time to give to it either but when I do, providing it's successful, I will willingly send you the files.

Regards - Ramon
Title: Re: 'WIDE A WAKE' a steam launch tale
Post by: Ramon on September 16, 2016, 05:04:39 PM
With the 19th fast approaching - 'Talk like a Pirate day' remember   -  Belay that last remark shipmate. (Get yer hat on Tel)

Done something - don't know what - but its now A3  :D


PM sent Bruce - Ramon
Title: Re: 'WIDE A WAKE' a steam launch tale
Post by: Don1966 on September 16, 2016, 06:03:33 PM
Ramon Autocad file usually create a Bak file or backup file. Use the explorer and check to see if they were created. Just rename the Bak extension to Dwg.

Don
Title: Re: 'WIDE A WAKE' a steam launch tale
Post by: Ramon on September 16, 2016, 07:07:01 PM
Hi Don - thanks but 'loss' of the files isn't/wasn't the problem.

I have had, shall we say, a 'gifted' copy of ACd 2002, and had been using it on an ad hoc basis mainly for the diesel engines. Use was pretty limited.

A good friend approached me sometime ago about making a model of an unusual steam engine built locally many years ago. Despite exhausting all known sources we could only come up with a few images and a page from a catalogue. It was agreed that my friend would do some concept drawings from which I would do the working ones. He also uses a 'gifted' copy. One afternoon he had brought his laptop around for the regular discussion and update of files when opening up his screen declared his Autocad files were inaccessible. At this precise moment in time I had taken his USB indoors to download the latest copy of his engine file onto my PC.

'It would appear' -  from his endeavours to retrieve his files the next day that AC monitors use of gifted copies and will turn a blind eye providing use is not excessive ie possibly commercial. If that is considered so then a block is put on. Apparently, even with the aid of a very computer literate friend, Phil was not able to trace where this block hides. It has to be said that Phil had been burning the minight oil on this project and thinks that his usage matched what he had read about ::) When he phoned to tell me this I opened my files up - same result - his bug is now in my computer :(

I don't know if what I have said there is fact - only what I have been told but I do know however that I couldn't access mine after downloading his file and I do know that I can access and use my ACd files on my old laptop and previous PC - however I'm reluctant to do so on line in case the same thing happens. If it is true that AC monitors low key use of such copies then I have no issues with that - just disappointed that my use was affected by my friends over use.

I looked for an alternative and choose 'Draftsight' because of it's basic similarities. It will open all my Acd files and allow modification etc so I'm legitimate at last. At my age I don't have the inclination nor really the need to go down the 3D route so I'm quite happy with it though as said previously to Bruce I have still not fully got to grips with it - maybe I need to do a new diesel ;)

Thanks for the thought though Don - much appreciated

Regards - Ramon


Title: Re: 'WIDE A WAKE' a steam launch tale
Post by: bruedney on September 16, 2016, 09:38:44 PM
Thanks Ramon

PM sent

Cheers Bruce
Title: Re: 'WIDE A WAKE' a steam launch tale
Post by: Ramon on September 19, 2016, 12:07:49 AM
They are on their way Bruce  ;)

Well after four glorious days of wall to wall sunshine Friday saw a complete change in the weather and it just 'persisted' down with rain all day.  :( ..... And night  :( :(  ..........And into Saturday  :( :( :(

But a 'dates a date' so off we went. The rain stopped - just about long enough and spirits were high and not dampened.

The boat performed well, last minute thoughts of how it would sit in the water - too high and wallow - too low and bloody sink - proved unfounded. With full water tanks and the boiler at the right level it was just slightly down on what was hoped for. A check on the images in the original article showed it much the same. It sat slightly bow down but some lead in the aft compartment should cure that.

Two small leaks - one on the whistle due to someone forgetting the pipe sealant  ::) the other on the 1/4 turn gauge glass blowdown valve due. The off position was far too critical.  I'll change this out for a conventional valve I think.

The gas system worked well but the flame still does not have enough air as the carbon was right at the top of the funnel. Not quite sure how I can overcome this as there is little room for secondary air - possibly a smaller jet may help.

Anyway I'm sure you want to see the pics ..........

Steam was raised by an external tank the switching to the onboard for sailing. Note the overflow from the leaky gauge glass valve  :D
(https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/g5KpHar_11AWc2behkkvBwxnw_fYujYSqIZJ8R9aV8GQFOqmE7JzLAHQb1Tc_f28pRUbq8KNNe9sGhuha9Fp2ROACZbiZ77fucEqdK7C7DEWUy093l-zehsK6wmw6zKYU_rVKxpgU5yapTVEpDlR6zLLf4Dz2BRvAgmfyQnee1CDw7iKEycm6ZL5RtfI-omyWbXnD0nCogjEJz6Z-DbY4izY7-NKmBptPfrwbgc5i4hJ9nWalwy7QTLUVpkSNyW-47kbrKE_pOSnaBKMo_zbtzGg2tZ_LueZUuVqMGsNR9sXLHdKlrKIngdzA1sbW9DEPFGkR_LEcPVjj4E0B0JEEAqAjOKHQROk8V9UWK2RJtsfBDGrKN6QJOZJp_lx_WVFqeZIJiJqfwHpA187DWknh3vhfTdkUmT7IjCE011Diua1tYYwvk_IdDWC5UkdCCfrcPo5P3ajTloKEOyH_8LTBSvI2Cq1uXljZb56ay00yQOS1Ye1uztkuPxjJf7Z6U0lkpVr8e8NQdIbp6dly-B8bMKTbqb_bVt_1xmcaF2ctAJj4djv-yHTQCrHLPzEW-dydtS1zfGiRUF_MN1a-KhpV9dW3pxprXoVM0BBnW8ZMOiGij8G=w1224-h918-no)

It's going well but Brian Jakob seems a bit concerned.
(https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/b6CaxCZoaffXZfn_lfkOJPWsdIQ60XQfTC-hjbLoFy59r-dE8nsSKzvf_V_W1nffDn-DUadZDmDzvOA9m5CbotxjAOgtkTJe87Z-cF6kRU08UZfwTF2ywuLX-uaf2zkHXPGXXviq848HbzK0fidWnDvxikYJOx2QVHqkmdj0E0w-rY2rGwv1lTX-_m3D52nAJTusgCdBAcxzNBntwAEbFwcilkPA5rf2PxHS7CXj4RETvBTBtjXPHXlOGJfOISfIK8bUXNqR3CjVGufrQ1tASxZ2MXrUG-EtEcepqPsuv9UC867bSuBzIORgdA_xADKDnBtw5XjOGs-lbEOv4ZUuDP9ihD09Pw7jEy_X29pBwhjPtSO3XiKsqIgxz-5JMkuTXMyGBY3mICbxo4DAXs70nT6VH4Bpvy6O58N6R8uVcpoLe6v091PL1VJRjLIhYp0MiTvh7U2IVshEIKPzRwdIdykpW0xrC4k2m_Iq3hP8dgL1WcmJroKyn-NIB5uQiI5-vHgMj5wvrikaUbiW69a8o1aeeyonfz8olgi2Ktm0C4IZNSK0NYIjwYcClrkt_wJtQGoEC_HcQTAiOiqMA2n8RDVW-2XLBQ5vfwEEHKi6C4T-ni4Y=w1224-h918-no)

The buntings on - we're nearly ready to go but hang on a minute....
(https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/6SjFTxMoyCSMoKD0opc99PFQAgEIELEu2u_odB8D45wE9s4wlF0dGbmbVASOdNa0KXl9atgsplMlABpwN1go8pC-44bgBMuBaJqlb3i7B2172KRovG7MBtXo_Zng5QAdlZqu5taarJvJuRlBEOhb9LSzKm5XTTuDuPrN4BdYvDYUYjJemLpsSJrg7LW-XemHdV8FrL0KryBmzh11pSeevuLGgLKKvZuQuaxEYs3Lg3RvV8DpPlSDL2YuTARvzhOI--9SP51RseV8rlWimAzwTxLaNbupfvFzZjwUSp_nHmGyAo3cydt0jG8RHxka_80ewbze81c8u46Tj8phPhPQMpwRf35_b7QiQfteFbJw5S6mFOgcNbFNuqgf6yzghsBrdxa7Sr9AyRPdt5xjkdwuIRk30_IjR4jU5gEsyRNQveIgD8cQN7BXsdFBcJ091ar4PRxo-61lPwmOp0OVki9puUKu6oEVheLgxWDEPzPZeSGON2neqaON-eebRysfCe7KM-uxys-OnF3-4_iuceoNsk5X2ydhqbW6nH8MIttzX_EFVvl7Yn1w8rKigM9vM2fQMWb4pto9G9fWqukQtVPD19W2rJRvbaqwyJg7u255OvUQ403i=w1224-h918-no)

We've got to get dressed for the part remember  ;D
(https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-qOP0jHtsxMVsjXNQXMmW-dX9xY0O6GAqbZDmTygfapQ0rsQGlK8QedYORKC997T0Gw64vA32pO5120Kv3ZWg_-ZcbYxFXxFnjKyqReRBC_wXMHHoJd_xR_BplDDIhl1IYSO5bRbCBOJrLGdnX1KSvxGph8RGSpl0FUuvrjqV3atXv5eTRnhNPgyUw4SCEdWIumE3cxQpO41OE6ajX9SA4WK6HfypSWJA7tZUBvjqXMJqIBROQtpMXEsT28_4s0pYUiK1lCDf_vH5LhQL4y_ZGMCaScuK9PvFAQaKXFRlfdbbVX-Pl9IgNBfcDYVLbx-DiZzlE7xCrwQxrmqY-ibg6OBMZbDcfGjN4KMnu0Z8wxDuIbfqvDhkunjLDoCuhOFXfkndAfC4PPEmGkZ8gBdWmR7AoWhXBnRdu-jjNy9mg3wHLFNqsNpBsmkdcPh8R4DPVAL1oM9yx3hrE4zsnw9F-f3ro1Vr8GsIWC5fNTgSt_DOCh7fMqOiL6zAJbbioyolU_UFskCdlNgy_JByx7Kkbo1zkqTbPyZGhX12k6b1TkIxgj_NnNqNzBO5ewijjwY9ZmEn1IoHU7v5vNk_2FzmpEnkA9XPit00qY-OYJC8QskfvDH=w1224-h918-no)


I think this sums it up  :)
(https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/AdjWlJ_JDkpJAloyU867b5nCJsYNTWW6vzPP9exOqi9WuOf2VDN2t-1-6yySjwbPbunyosya3-wisLWM35P7ZOLDXj5ZRjHZFGCM_-wN48UqgNYzX8HKpKPTwLBYv-67VNEHQPkeWiyoOprKalTt1VkpQx1v-gxrtxqmRVdO5ouMsnZ5Rzhjam_-GYYqHQr-omKCJeFsnSG1NEmRmZo3yZTUsosSODr8-R4CeynZEkKb3DzIBLFK0P26hEv7qRmgAN3JDWjMr8hct39lwbTLc1E7P7HTTBM2QPElOcXiaI3tie7N19OQCeCy1Ql3HEdVx1hzjDgsNLA4c3b8qJQ9ZJYlFTVRcJOX6Db_6SPOXp1lZgmeQ1yFSfRXd9Ozgcr5-uVKFBxEZ7zfQCi6C-e8pUhwRlzJUihkoo17BvRGoJeWdM6kR4-toT_Cf23Ihod00JFf7bXLEn233XA14K1ZUqwpugWLKDicUsx4az9QCGbiTIMQcif3TD6PgcxnSG-TN07xPM89jTu68aL_3otanfq93vZBE0A1FVOZUHxXVbVAxdPmD8JuGFy_ok6i1YJurt5Ddsx-fvkNz9Hv-yYe6zWD8pcqpVN5LuUpZpALvrvP4iE_=w1224-h918-no)

Time to go - careful now Sue, now is not the time to drop it.
(https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/wmY0O57qtqr2QQBMNlOwC-SW-B5FKpDx6AuGejh-eIHMKPLjJzNlxWeQF0yMNDWpC4_C5D3mce3FXyghmgPU2vBKa6PnzFf5Dn0_i1I96mw7PkjZ2QGCdC1RV26o24M4eeEnb5eNYenT14qk8GKsky7sx-weI0RCFqYLSZY-kcJ3UoqxaAAmYRGtLea1gZUosJtkxApLOE_AYJJNr6w3o_6n4iYtHSK1UVBozKctY76YEcxBPqZvTiv636naUbMdHwv9Hk6kR2ZlD-0AjXa0hv54Zct7c2Ddo8zNH9mtX0_WfI9_hqm-Qt2xb2SLmJ3McvCyrxXoID5MSa2NzrJyAM3fHxm9M4wEUOp0THi2rz32HSVwvAmOqdi_FK9Jspg7g9PHEBkbauxdyVhs3NrPayPinW3k1Ph8rkNd9feFBvsHxw2IrGy2pxFdrT0ilkE5lU2ytBXy2DMLtVn83AIucw3wksqOAWYZlUqcT_XuoKlYhF0fKyR0C8avNPHL2_8V1BnL5_3TrWn7GD_qcmWXlFAen0rb8CLjUJ8MFzIfRpuX_-_Gc0bUgWEnEjZj1UAu7HBnr54-1OHloHmHih_4KURAaioFJ4THxMxTuZxQOr-DIg5n=w1224-h918-no)

And finally, after three years, it gets it's bottom wet  ;D
(https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/jzEI_HpNOArTs1LC8GCTE-xiFru_NknkV8261GCx-Hegrxl2uF9mDM6774DJ8uF-pFl-MqZgxXMfOdPmIHBSnJ44Bfq-HUXo86ftcxj1pN4TR1xCrPSOydFAAV1THus0ein-Sh5Qs8-Tp0Ryjq8SxblLyLYOSDr2v2N12IqWW1j7p4XrrokqiP2Wlt2H4K3cENz2EanPO8b8oDglKpRudiKPfdCcoiFhD0Wb4RCu4qo7IQKM8E8JIE6Eq0eJHrGHy3OFVetnF6eXZ3jtPxkSGNh7p5_Ru7KLUvtIrjHxTIH551rJVvsZJiBA_86G-T-U-5RnK9cYdq-Amk0uYNqFbc0fnqaEHEVpreARoSKjjBnBKUeT_gcj3APDjinrHOXpQtf_GXJT0YEfLq_MzkcIx89PUCQOsU1eICQ1MyEGt5cm59ncN-XHJugK1Ak72Rckw2OHMcKprivHUgysFYYzWeMO6HLI8ZNgkX5mU9clhvo3Kb39wRRDQC44iGgOeWs3A2fCKspMzoHqKbsmLe0p6NRnkLkxuXLO_TWDt2rv0OSOcbqdQuHjpD-E9bIWT-NcVBok1R2_L4MHOecf3D64hRhUKBSYvfV7ROeGJBzoOy0E0BKc=w1224-h918-no)

Can I let it go yet ?
(https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/Dz2jt9WEtMIp-iynzjpGJ38CKHesN4Ag8pFErxDzAwygcKR43GiqGwvzrPh7OiZMmlAX8AIho1y1S-hptVJ0fwg1hN30FeD7Gl_McrOQwRs4fGEHiASrIBhnvhmha0I48nPt616VXLE8CNUw3co4YTdnMwEa_8gB9jkN20fmPGPkQq1xtqejU6k9RnBrMNs_HbfqipE9PlZto3ft9lXpFlFEZUTBgJ6A4ghUCaZ_H_HwfxSOl1hbb0UBVC_7lpE5vY5oYdeYQYjUgHeOQ54m0ZZobPgbXHbfvooBWVTbPgnK7DXA4nprdokVauzcq7t16HhrFR2BP_khz5O4SYEDIxBW_AeIlHZFT0LfwKMYj6voJceeiZOGGMDGN0vrria6_ftBoQDAAr5QUcOkcNH8eiLBZ6B9FW-C-BainnFt8jUmIsUKAxP1R1OcsijtekRulJkf0_MbdGcrNIb_NxO81K7yWhQEfgyYZfZ84kqEbtch7DuPqRT-ZH6j_vFvfcLXIsLMIfc9bIUPYDtXc8wOFj5WJ-lfkKqI8v0dxhit0PpeToXrqm5gQMifyo6mh20bK92ZeH_Mf94MDOH-jGBS-1tB5HIqnz05k2SNXTNZ8NjmXdxU=w1224-h918-no)

Eve, 'bunting maker extraordinaire' is doing the posh voice "ey neme this boat" bit at this point - she make great cheese straws too guys.
(https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/Ke3NWdxzq8NRDmeIAkhCUnssEk17nRRnIIhPhm7aL5q0bGd7fCCIZXd3dMA-9nCrjtBBrGgtGHzkfYbO3YLpSnyP7Y6ZFEo1yZBDmNZUlrYfdn4rVGg9M8ftn6tb-90IM4SBrMxl8lOqghvbMK4dJ5giz0wglmtZoywb9ceHS9hSlJGnji61tpUEEMX6P8jJCxOPI2CHpR7OJJrMeGmUkvO8FbnBkCZifA4wp1_60MMkHUsRTrsaOyvXFKeCg-ozd0FYYyaWrYNz2LfU5xQ1__BZQqmsDNzwjKa9bFZUBiLq3AEamPp4l5l9WJdQJIHWNXTYY_puLRtCRgSQ_3dVLGCI9cSojSXdIuvO0QjQ_1lLOWZeb8eA3w3kJPZHQvAS1ahJtLGDE85OhwCAIbZan97NeC6Ra_urnp70Y1UNqRvE-wXxe5JyKkRsV06PhZKw2cBJEV95IMoOKY8kFpf2hK2xV8OXhlGM4zFcsDhEo9j0QZWCijs0hfQ6DxWmGZ5nzfOfqFmD3LfWPpHx2zUWAgIegmsQ451I1CU4KSNMJV2PKUyv7bA37-CNgE7FSSRtzWPl5ZIIwUnauOEGBBF3LLW25Dvob7KTjsLveVI7wvzRIJA0=w1224-h918-no)

Am I allowed a little self 'chuffedness' ?
(https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/fquDo8cU1prRVzRxHuFwl2f9hKonjDjxm-jVk1ig4wGbufeO28R_uujzzU7sVxJeOpk6qkKbLax8NHfk_HyQwS72WrEA0uDkgxAtzweW_4d-82b6XLD91VHmfQKgT9KQTO87nxraz8cCTZJmANgxMJOxlnrx8UM5V5mHgM7TNJ6IE0Tq4KmPUxJNY-f8eu1QwCzw-l3fAtocjHe2JN6hb6Gw1tch8Q0l1CtE10zHPAv0S-owTyLmOo8ao9jmaLpAsrLk4dcF4W4NbeCxDHyX93J98CTowGJy7sS0m95kAXc3zu9fmvpJXg3XmsSaPpECvB91pKIR03BRuEhNPXxSZqKd_bOzPBBpE5JtPbit1lrN0ldgaqrHTupiVRWqgC9LDdQq36s--g8t3jKCGUG-531Pz5VH-9tHKsjZRRhuKPeuTKmNNuXEHLyhxM7FETAVWtOyh7xkC4au4pE7TyHUnV7qHMeTZRnakTYczFeEGsea-guju_hzrO10VGfYJJPbtnO5ZCovcoQQ4Uu_GgzklfdcBRWl3i3cMZZoT6QVG86o6iJ9pdJoXDsfKjfN4nruhbIytWpi6Pp2uUn79Xwuc0ZR0P7XpdP6ZXJSAj3mbfJ6NRZn=w1224-h918-no)

And its away on it's first journey
(https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/awQGTZhWjOgg3ndHEAd89SeQZBtsmtsTrl0ANBi19lPJwR8iULuUQBMACB_N0egbh8H3rGAYMA6hUEvdCzBiORX_pGf5uhg_LE2n9IM0wYbf3cMPHYrDhE_FQtEfMKb6Vg-zWAVlhtMeqV_vEvhdwuPO-eCL2G5_EMKQh4Gx2yOowRXPT9IY0oi5nR6f8fKn0odkgzl50opbe9HA1HizsA-eK_xeNdsF-QjEAwE-9N7EVPOhqV1PYGS9-JjW64mCiGX9rYCoEGVFneo0et5u6bPVBoKYVOZ_tTMCIAUyKw9hX4DnJgG5OAUuX3ZclBtg_Gcb6HbSEPj8Mtj-z0zwNraNJ0fxCayCTqGFsGNrmYtfMvnqYt_hPCtjDTt-Ow7GwZESfh9GXxMWJ9CRlET596RMwrLEiGF5KON5qme_F8ihcXCsj9x-uXhtOW7RDZjUNXanG-xyYMOuePveY8WRr1E0YBDotrUO5j5LrmHYa7pL0FuzMyocpFP0pjtHi8BP5I53ioI2nKyez3IqYNo8BpzOOAFbxQsi38TOUzerehMsoeIyGVr3ptmub6RQmReoEPX3TBjdNLFRH_wOVShTy_-za7o01bMkSeaXEkYblvSHFu65=w1224-h918-no)

(https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/tZKotNA8oq5SvcgDi-2TlM-O34E3qPNYP8Pam7wqZ1Gca4fmyPeUi0FpP02js6LNV8lQdPv8Anfb4RkVNKQkxAZdLAgInC467vWIuOLs_jcSSrZOJNBXaYPf78r9oqlg2vM_or3vzsooTb3t3-O2FHukoscI9-w5aOb_JFkGpH-YZVSg3AKnj2xsUKdU0l7FiEYS80PinBdFchxjhSFbnwMo6iMgbEcfewcSsdvGyY2eBYLwh1V73enfTXQRjkYB1OmXHTFfzT89bmXGWcgln0dQHQz1nsb2dilHjI1PYaFLn7Fo0j1Xya2__VXWU0HK1JPUSsOmVaywunD2qtebtkUwPnZd-zIT9F5X00aQmrtgvGiByvNMbaTlZgpv0cepAob2i2hhNPnbyVda8TibBzWRW-yhw7-jXnsCLMz7xfx7JdANBj4Bxsne1FtO96O5Glf7l-sXwfA6KFZ5qQo3fxGPr-af-QraPDBXojvJsgQGYA-1R_e0uLqNXeS2CSIBb7PehribQDzyhtseA5NuOWnlwAmSG2dI6ekdDgC5uTJ-gzPoLB49_Qr6un-MU9zHP1CfcbY0E_TZz2vJI6rh8JWI4Q9RmBHM3CPIPinRuZy18kBy=w1224-h918-no)

(https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/tZKotNA8oq5SvcgDi-2TlM-O34E3qPNYP8Pam7wqZ1Gca4fmyPeUi0FpP02js6LNV8lQdPv8Anfb4RkVNKQkxAZdLAgInC467vWIuOLs_jcSSrZOJNBXaYPf78r9oqlg2vM_or3vzsooTb3t3-O2FHukoscI9-w5aOb_JFkGpH-YZVSg3AKnj2xsUKdU0l7FiEYS80PinBdFchxjhSFbnwMo6iMgbEcfewcSsdvGyY2eBYLwh1V73enfTXQRjkYB1OmXHTFfzT89bmXGWcgln0dQHQz1nsb2dilHjI1PYaFLn7Fo0j1Xya2__VXWU0HK1JPUSsOmVaywunD2qtebtkUwPnZd-zIT9F5X00aQmrtgvGiByvNMbaTlZgpv0cepAob2i2hhNPnbyVda8TibBzWRW-yhw7-jXnsCLMz7xfx7JdANBj4Bxsne1FtO96O5Glf7l-sXwfA6KFZ5qQo3fxGPr-af-QraPDBXojvJsgQGYA-1R_e0uLqNXeS2CSIBb7PehribQDzyhtseA5NuOWnlwAmSG2dI6ekdDgC5uTJ-gzPoLB49_Qr6un-MU9zHP1CfcbY0E_TZz2vJI6rh8JWI4Q9RmBHM3CPIPinRuZy18kBy=w1224-h918-no)

(https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/8rLJFH642oeXDCRtoszduaVllBQO236SpCgq2kCUoLM_11zUv0mWcwr2c3mEqSu7GqqFhtAqA8KDnL_AgD5oALGns-NO8VMUZXrOi1bLIs9FzoXIwG-Xunpthyxlqp9__3kPTUeTbZXhyPwwrZUxVaTrXXGJ-4F2u4g4Rx9OXvxHkG0Q1NETWS0VlXX_ldEcNdhw1Afu-wipDdXy8njB9_791Bo_ZMi_LpiRdwJMxFfcX_66eA8GMo8JauuSBo5n9QFYZtR5S6_PchvRm4oMdRFe3-alCJ99kMNeu9R0KYPWNJz1n2Jt3IjO3Yuovvu6v6zEoSpqDS4SGLuXrSJLCKyMP8izWHP9XFwwCSsRXyjTJp90HhaDfAHD-J98YgWl5ZeG2luOOPCN6tOifUWbkFc7jx-odhMRBcb8WRlMyrm_7wcToBSZKsrB1escT0DfKs8Gq0SSnCXYwBrMfkT0J2zvzf8naf1AjvwgT9T5AO5__ke9XB8BLT-M3em3lqD0-3CfdOEjwttKML018Qh7utMokSutL8GwrAcOfShuKT_ROvlv2wsULFdOdc_LFzWOm1flNum8yevvghsgRK5En9WYSDyBSGgi3kNoljTJlm3kmJpk=w1224-h918-no)

(https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/My_susvMSEuHkP7hExETX4hyoMB39XXTJYVFH3ohP1O5PBG0mZTiylRZVtyo6YG3W3I0SBemwPNJD-1IEFSIznI1nf3_mOGZBQi_Qy5hWP_Zu8taqjdPerAgKnrGqBVY8WGtxwQ9cklHf6s0GNmDklhRPtbHOrZYoV_mJS4szh2SrOeyQSW9YeOGU5yCsHjgkVjeYWx4KGrLg1jcLgB2gTRWOjcPVRwHhl-L48hpYJdVy9Z6_j1IBAKwQVzNAoiTYMhTI7b8RKj6JocRpHRm-UJKxNkHHg6-K7ulaw9kZPn3xKyvrPSvPyC7tUOXKIwuz7dvNHL9_FgKU9Ok-UaMXLR5zjG1I9ddFaA9XhN53z4_6yM-ZRrH-8kqusnv-1GWDXxfYfxyV1TvLAG2X4x_9HyQG8R5CHZHqadfRGF1n6un0zj6apcLMkDkQUq9nclqqTT06qXvQqx9O0LGN3asJ7gWcv73KEp91Suw3RQAMi90OacvYn-2GVcEIhWtl80W-8GAWgAUrH5Vi1r4B8futIObUunvzQtC2yFFlGkl9M_grslZYgx3GeJTKoQ2YYuWdVYtmVpdjypHbQ_-PjNMIlMPlUik7OnupI1WBKcc4TyKq72n=w1224-h918-no)


The happy couple .....
(https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/H4TrKW1QKnWvtel-qo6IbznGpYhVTJUZKrZpdx9AB8CkOUjmSlrqxeEXE-P-QY5MwzLzuxcTMuC1Kbv6dLYTWcRatBcstxENq22eh8Axok7QZJhwh2IIKDowlkTIfFcVOuCrdP3S8Kn6Nnxkl2EYNqTIRzobrzp1elOEtvJoXuX2LL7q113TajwR7H2inFtLF3Ds9Upbhc_Q7iV_GGMh7_esOcnfLT0TYoMTnLQBvixdYEqvjnmzednDb-ufu10hh7ETsH3VJo2MQcnd7adKdSR6KD-PZHHLglntodlsuLdcwhQ6VIlxUitG4-AQIo4wJ84rxfQbL1tqR_H-jWtej6PQe7g0Xl-_Pc0GX2ndkJonRQryIy19d-fE10FbYWmjVS69cigU1f5KIXwIIn2VTFhTTC_IPL6knz2K1fFXYuwOIXcNSxhR9vEdUIzpZ798sB1L-l9QGQFs0e3EUHcpE7U4rUzH-3qxARKOiTVh34PVg8DwOfqYcQXdy_CL8RobJqcf3iWxCyoAF-iBTtdSEgX68_UYL2b8oMMKtRd4HTPVlH74r8mE3JoryAuu5bkhHqifb2YEoGbApPEKi7Ikg754IxZRPHogffOR5iWaEIfao_pE=w1224-h918-no)

....... and the happy gang. Members of the yachting section who all turned out on a particularly grotty non racing day to have some fun. Thanks for the support 'guys'  :)
(https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/jq-OPYVR9_EaDV00IARd3lBWzujS4RSJ1zVAyjd9h-m7w9zgpB6BZNiz7i1bbclLStil5QWx0oBMA8nJcP8B0GEOdNCY1BwnR2d_LdG2A6sOFHsJS5LE2pFK9nVwRm8GwetDae2JpTczrrXvHNo06w7ZODFzoSRnShwWvlZnQoF-ReFB6Gy6cXMEB8gM6CH_YX23zwUV-oDZMPB5itMlnwwqj7HqpezOHPsBCO2b33WGew4U9H3_PT-OJkYDWhOHnFKRaGL-6KqZTGo_cHUQGeMIX1pwrDgcmSvhkstCguoWUniN2kdZqMXUYA4GVrDyCYDAuo6KqCM1_4JE5AQv_eZD30pmKgyuuNYYUEwcuZhA3DcknqOI2iBBM6MLE3l2EXOddYrRkySIFx2sG-gsUBAr4fm9rWYF1_6cX6_fqAykSY4OiSvS7kuqjRnnJblH51U-sauPH4mj_5bzIh7-P1pdQ2ZNCaODnZ7XuuvnFn683h3QzWwO9ibAF_KAHSYp7TnLRBqLBVaNcp4Y-cdKndTwse-iZP0zDh6iSlcm6C3olvD9Gm9lQkebFo3V0SiJtxbongeIPz1-htywUqsTgaxs1EhOorBfIt3ZOvdDeaQWNbw2=w1224-h918-no)

That's it 'boys and girls' - time for the bubbly and the cucumber sandwiches  ;)
(https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/TRMihK3CooLGJ0vQE6v_Is5EIP8z6hWhAoq-rFOln9p3ZhgZ5h6c3ElrtgbDdcIDhlAB9mOhB5aD29WnmaFWVYu9gmIbUpb-GIBfk41nM_yeErEzxCZbMWtuwKR9v3HoYgyYqJiOwa09KEWJTlnDbFJiCjU2RszLMnU_zLvfLctffdPpEXPhtI_Bvl6dP4IK5TzcOY23rTCXP3Bw8BscN93v1myEnqtzCfgGhA4CsNqjq4tqIK11SowpQKlegjaUnGaU6Te_DNGHlAhXWpxmCKEOkS3ZT2OzF-UObiv2tsd-XCsaOzKP8KYGQxKQOSTgDB_MTQPtcyzaIp2X3mnAWctfEaQqYl60NDgakDFit4G1n89gp3E5eCpVu9xJhkucwQ6f43WQ-4Ik3uT_BdD5yWJEbEaeSaKFG5DpQ9-vzCgRioJ1XECvdsmU70g7-83kfnwImY4AOehlMCKYjJqucFB93XBAoLK4V8qEfnYHaDWkFPwYjVkF8m6ByKDXFRjPUE-LoP1JhuyzJ7PtxArASkTO6stUFWeSE9SR_5GUtMzBhSvqGKxlmUpmQCEdxjtX6DcHOPleWchZa_EcCrny_ph-zYMOzGxZoyBS3cONmsdCduHG=w1224-h918-no)

And that was it folks, short but very sweet. I hope these pics, a tad off the mainstream I know, will convey however what a great day it turned out to be. We had hoped for an outside buffet but due to the weather the ladies had prepped the food and bubbly in the set up room and it did not take long to get into the swing of things. Sadly, I'm afraid due to the intense activity, we forgot to take any pics  ;D.  And if that wasn't enough, once that was done and dusted we retired up to the club room to celebrate two birthdays - Sues and Brian Ralphs. Tea (what else?), cheese straws, sausage rolls and lovely home made cakes courtesy of Pauline and Angela. I think you can say we really enjoyed the occasion.

That really is the end of the line - ah you say - what about the video? Well, Sue did take some on a second steaming but unfortunately it really isn't worth pursuing - it's turned out rather out of focus I'm afraid so you'll just have to let the pics tell the tale.

So guys, to coin a phrase,  'That's it Folks' - you really have had it all now. I truly hope you've enjoyed the journey.

My Regards - Ramon


POSTSCRIPT
There's always a postscript !
When I set out to make this boat in 1972 I had no idea what a lathe looked like let alone how to use one. This project set me off into the world of model engineering which all too soon became an over-riding passion. Some eight years later I walked away from a great career as a diver in the offshore industry to retrain as a milling machinist. I really loved the diving but not as much as machining and never ever regretted that decision. I spent the remaining years working in a machine shop environment and enjoyed every single minute turning, grinding or milling (my order of preference!). That all consuming passion for machining however has diminished at an alarming rate over the past few years and there is less and less desire to continue so not only is this the end of the line for the project but, I feel, the beginning of the end for my involvement in ME. You all know I have a deep interest in plastic modelling and given I'm heading toward my last years instead of setting out as I did on this at 27 I am going to take that road from here on. That is not to say that I will not make anything in the future just that there is nothing planned for the foreseeable one.

I wish you all well in you model engine endeavours - I have enjoyed my time posting over the years but now it's time to venture down a different path - well for a while at least  ;)

'Au revoir' then - Ramon


Title: Re: 'WIDE A WAKE' a steam launch tale
Post by: bruedney on September 19, 2016, 12:19:08 AM
Simply beautiful Ramon (Tug)  :praise2:

I hope that you still "linger" or "loiter with intent" on this forum as you skills and knowledge are an inspiration and I am sure that other "beginners" like me could learn a lot from you even if you are no longer active in ME.

All the best

Bruce
Title: Re: 'WIDE A WAKE' a steam launch tale
Post by: b.lindsey on September 19, 2016, 12:46:21 AM
What wonderful pictures of a great event for all of us that have followed along in your build. Please continue checking in from time to time by all means, you will be sorely missed if you don't. We might even have to track you down :) Thanks so much for bringing us along on this wonderful journey.

Bill

Title: Re: 'WIDE A WAKE' a steam launch tale
Post by: Dave Otto on September 19, 2016, 12:53:06 AM
Ramon

Thanks for taking us along this wonderful journey; the end result is just spectacular.

Enjoy your passion and please don't be a stranger.

Dave
Title: Re: 'WIDE A WAKE' a steam launch tale
Post by: crueby on September 19, 2016, 01:01:26 AM
Simply wonderful!   :cartwheel:
Title: Re: 'WIDE A WAKE' a steam launch tale
Post by: metalmad on September 19, 2016, 02:26:10 AM
I would think a very high degree of self Chuffedness is mandatory in the circumstances Ramon.
So say all of us!!
Pete
Title: Re: 'WIDE A WAKE' a steam launch tale
Post by: 10KPete on September 19, 2016, 04:36:19 AM
My most heartfelt congratulation on completing the project, Ramon!! It's absolutely marvelous seeing you, your lovely wife, and your friends gathered for such a momentous occasion.

Here is to you and your future. I hope you will check in routinely and let us know what you are up to and provide some commentary and insight for us.

 :cheers:   :cheers:   :'(

Pete
Title: Re: 'WIDE A WAKE' a steam launch tale
Post by: Jo on September 19, 2016, 10:06:52 AM
Well Done 8)


POSTSCRIPT
That all consuming passion for machining however has diminished at an alarming rate over the past few years and there is less and less desire to continue so not only is this the end of the line for the project but, I feel, the beginning of the end for my involvement in ME. .... That is not to say that I will not make anything in the future just that there is nothing planned for the foreseeable one.

Say it is not true  :toilet_claw:

Chinese Milling Machines have a lot to answer for  :ShakeHead:

Jo
Title: Re: 'WIDE A WAKE' a steam launch tale
Post by: Ramon on September 19, 2016, 04:14:51 PM
Thanks guys - I'll try to bear that in mind but once I get my head into the plastic I'm afraid I get a bit lost  ::)

On that note Jo, I'm afraid that that is the case but I assure you - I really do - it has nothing, nothing whatsoever, to do with the quality of the new mill  :D

There is however a Mc'Onie that needs finishing but whilst there is intent to do so at some stage there's absolutely no indication as to when  ;D

My sincere regards Guys - enjoy yourselves for that's it for now.

PS A Footnote - what another one???  ::)

We took the boat into the Boat Building College today as I was asked to do so when I had it finished. It came as a surprise (on both sides) however to find completely new management but once I explained why we were there we were made just as welcome as before. They were very pleased to see it finished and my day was made when Pete, the instructor who such a way back thought the roves were real and who was always ready to proffer information, shook my hand and with a big grin said  "You've passed" - Fair made my day that did, I can tell you.

Now that really is the end of the line
Title: Re: 'WIDE A WAKE' a steam launch tale
Post by: Jasonb on September 19, 2016, 04:48:12 PM
Thanks guys - I'll try to bear that in mind but once I get my head into the plastic I'm afraid I get a bit lost  ::)

Yep that styrene glue is a bit strong ;)

Hope you won't be too much of a stranger and that you may get the urge to make swarf again, maybe you could get Sue to take up ME as a retirement hobby so the machines don't collect too much dust.

J
Title: Re: 'WIDE A WAKE' a steam launch tale
Post by: fumopuc on September 19, 2016, 07:08:57 PM
Hi Ramon what a great show.
Enjoy what ever you have decided to do in future and have fun.
It will be a pleasure to see some of your brillant work again, maybe.
Title: Re: 'WIDE A WAKE' a steam launch tale
Post by: Robert Hornby on September 20, 2016, 02:03:52 AM
Truly a work of art, dripping with quality and precision with looks to match.  :pinkelephant: If my boat looks half as good as Wide-a Wake then i will be very happy. The side bumpers look the part Ramon, did you make them?
Robert
Title: Re: 'WIDE A WAKE' a steam launch tale
Post by: Pete49 on September 20, 2016, 04:22:26 AM
A wonderful end to a fantastic model experience.  :cheers:
Pete
Title: Re: 'WIDE A WAKE' a steam launch tale
Post by: vcutajar on September 20, 2016, 04:47:10 PM
Hi Ramon

What a wonderful boat. :AllHailTheKing:

I followed your project from the start and was in awe at all the small details you went in.  Sorry to here you are 'retiring' from ME but hopefully you will still come and visit us on the forums and maybe put in some expert advice.

Vince

P.S.  I thought you also had a BR2 to finish.
Title: Re: 'WIDE A WAKE' a steam launch tale
Post by: Jo on September 20, 2016, 04:52:58 PM
P.S.  I thought you also had a BR2 to finish.

 :lolb: Caught

I run a home for Orphaned model engines   :naughty: But Eric may also be willing to find a small place in his cold  :( and drafty  :ShakeHead: workshop

Jo
Title: Re: 'WIDE A WAKE' a steam launch tale
Post by: Admiral_dk on September 20, 2016, 09:12:41 PM
Hi Ramon

Talking about leaving on a high or with a bang  :NotWorthy: well I can only say that you did that too :NotWorthy:

A very impressive display of boat, pond, people and all + a fitting end to this journey.

 You all have a great pond, I really like that you don't have to bend down to "put it to sea" - nice.

I couldn't help being worried that you put such a nice vessel to sea without any crew on board - what are the odds that it would make it to shore safely gain  ;)

Thank you for sharing everything you have done here for the last many years, and as the rest, I really hope that you check in from time to time.

Best wishes to you and Sue

Per
Title: Re: 'WIDE A WAKE' a steam launch tale
Post by: Ramon on September 26, 2016, 04:47:46 PM
Jason, Achim, Robert, Pete, Vince and Per,

Apologies for any delay in replying but I have been absent from the computer and workshop for a few days away on a quiet break with Sue.

I wasn't intending to post again but many thanks indeed for your kind comments and well wishes, as always all are much appreciated  :)

Vince , It is not my intention to 'retire' from ME so much as to take a long sabbatical - how long that proves does remain to be seen  :D and yes you are correct there is the matter of a BR2 as well. I'm afraid I have reached that point however where I need to divide myself in two with equal time in each direction - impossible of course - so I will take my old, and sadly missed friend Sid's oft quoted motto - "Go with the Flo" - Who knows where that will lead to I wonder ?

Now parting with the Bentley Jo, should it be done at all, will only be done at the right time to the right person - I'm afraid that given your response to when I offered you the Throp flywheel donations to orphanages are very firmly ruled out   :ShakeHead:


Well, I really do think we need to call this thread to an end now - it's been a lovely journey but there's little left to say except thank you for sharing it with me :)

Kind Regards to you all - Ramon.

Title: Re: 'WIDE A WAKE' a steam launch tale
Post by: Don1966 on September 26, 2016, 05:10:10 PM
Ramon as usual I am late to express my admiration of your work and presentation. A wonderful journey and an educational one as well. You will surely be missed my friend and I do hope you check in on us from time to time. I should be starting the Table Engine this coming year and do hope you check on me. The wide Awake is simply beautiful and should give you enjoyment in years to come. Enjoy you new found interest and stay well my friend. As usual .......I ........like....... :Love:


Don  :praise2:
Title: Re: 'WIDE A WAKE' a steam launch tale
Post by: Ramon on September 28, 2016, 02:23:35 PM
Hello Don, my thanks as always for your words of support  :)

I will keep an 'eye to the ground' for your new build - in all probability my 'lurching' (read lurking) good friend Chris (Model Steam) will keep me posted on events  ;)
(We will be having a get together at this weekends Forncett do as well as the Lowestoft show at the end of the month where no doubt he will be twisting my arm ;))

I hope your day by day situation from the after effects of the flooding is beginning to improve.

Take care my friend

Kind Regards - Ramon
Title: Re: 'WIDE A WAKE' a steam launch tale
Post by: KNO3 on September 05, 2018, 09:42:04 PM
Hello, I haven't been on here in ages and only now read about the completion of your beautiful steam boat. Congratulations!
What can you tell about the steam plant performance, is it as expected, would you change anything?
Title: Re: 'WIDE A WAKE' a steam launch tale
Post by: zeeprogrammer on September 05, 2018, 11:03:22 PM
I try to read all of "today's" post...but I have a bad habit of only reading those on the left pane. If there's more posts than the pane can show...then I miss them.
I am really sorry to have missed some posts in this thread.

The pictures of the steam launch, you (Ramon), relatives, and friends are outstanding.
What a feat!
I wish I could have been there. The atmosphere must have been of pure satisfaction and joy.

Cheers to you.  :cheers: :DrinkPint: :wine1:
Title: Re: 'WIDE A WAKE' a steam launch tale
Post by: Ye-Ole Steam Dude on September 06, 2018, 12:20:08 AM
Hello Ramon,

Absolutely gorgeous.

Have a great day,
Thomas