Model Engine Maker

Supporting => My Workshop => Topic started by: sshire on April 14, 2013, 11:19:12 PM

Title: It followed me home from Cabin Fever
Post by: sshire on April 14, 2013, 11:19:12 PM
Just couldn't resist. I had an empty space in the shop.
http://photobucket.com/albums/l604/sshire/Oliver%20die%20filer

Had it set up within an hour of arriving at home. Runs like a well oiled machine.
Old American Iron.
Title: Re: It followed me home from Cabin Fever
Post by: Don1966 on April 14, 2013, 11:43:25 PM
Oh man, I want one. How did you steal that one. Did it set you back some?

Don
Title: Re: It followed me home from Cabin Fever
Post by: sshire on April 15, 2013, 12:15:10 AM
Under $200. 1971-72 vintage. Oliver is sending me manual and other info. I filled the gearbox with oil. Runs like a good watch.
Title: Re: It followed me home from Cabin Fever
Post by: Don1966 on April 15, 2013, 12:33:13 AM
You know models in bad shape cost well over $400. You made a steal Stan.

Don
Title: Re: It followed me home from Cabin Fever
Post by: b.lindsey on April 15, 2013, 12:41:17 AM
Nice find Stan...that's a beauty!! Glad you and it both got home safely too.

Bill
Title: Re: It followed me home from Cabin Fever
Post by: steamer on April 15, 2013, 01:42:29 AM
Sweet find!

Congrats!

Dave
Title: Re: It followed me home from Cabin Fever
Post by: Mosey on April 15, 2013, 02:29:10 AM
Stan,
This is a serious question...what will you do with it?

Pleasure hanging with you, too.

Mosey
Title: Re: It followed me home from Cabin Fever
Post by: sshire on April 15, 2013, 11:34:56 AM
Do with it? Who needs a reason.
Seriously, I grabbed a piece of brass from the scrap box to test the filer. What a treat! Very nice surface, very square (or angled precisely by tilting the table). Much more precise than my hand filing ( which I didn't think was too bad). With the assortment of "new, old stock" Nicholson files that I got for $8 each in square (course and fine), round (course and fine) and triangular, I can easily and controllably file in corners and tight spaces. I can also see attaching abrasive paper to a 1/2" square or round bar.
Looks to be very useful, plus I did have an empty spot in the shop to fill.
Hoping that other members can give me some hints for using it.
Title: Re: It followed me home from Cabin Fever
Post by: tel on April 15, 2013, 11:41:59 AM
That is a seriously nice hunk of machine - and for just about scrap value!  :ThumbsUp:
Title: Re: It followed me home from Cabin Fever
Post by: RonGinger on April 15, 2013, 01:27:26 PM
I have a Butterfly filer, and use it a good bit. When working small pieces the file will occasionally grab the work on the up-stroke, then pull it back down with a bit of skin  under the part- hurts a lot  >:( I have not found a way to beat that, except to use a clamp or some kind of holder for small parts.

What followed (or is following me) as I go to NAMES is the Multiplaz 3500 combination TIG and plasma cutter. I am afraid it may be one of those purchases you later realize was over sold- remember  the old VitaMix salesmen at shows? But I watched the guy behind the curtain cutting and welding and it sure looked nice. When I get home and get to try it Ill start a new thread on it.
Title: Re: It followed me home from Cabin Fever
Post by: steamer on April 15, 2013, 01:46:26 PM
I've been eyeing that torch....and am very curious....look forward to the write up Ron!

Dave
Title: Re: It followed me home from Cabin Fever
Post by: 90LX_Notch on April 15, 2013, 02:43:48 PM
That's a homerun Stan.  I've never used one, but I'd imagine  it would be great for making the square hole in a boring bar.  Nice find and goodluck with it.

-Bob
Title: Re: It followed me home from Cabin Fever
Post by: sshire on April 15, 2013, 09:53:26 PM
Ron
The Oliver has a hold down to eliminate the finger pinching problem. If you'd like detailed pix I can post them.

I spoke to a lovely lady at Oliver this morning (Mary). She sent me a PDF of the manual, parts breakdown and the brochure for my model (S-4)
She also told me that it was ordered by Pierce Governor Co. in Anderson Indiana in 1964. It was ordered with a special 16" table instead of the standard 11-1/4" one.
I'll bet Grizzly would have a hard time telling me when I ordered my lathe less than two years ago.

I sent her pictures.
Title: Re: It followed me home from Cabin Fever
Post by: Mosey on April 15, 2013, 11:14:43 PM
Stan,
Keeping in mind that there are some out here who are "filiing-disadvantaged", I think it is encumbent on you to post some early filing works. Show us what this machine can do, please. I just spent a couple of hours making a contact plate out of .060 aluminum, filing by hand, and sanding the circumference. Betcha you could have done it in minutes with that wonderful new machine.
By the way, I really enjoyed dining with you and the other guys, especially the one who makes tiny wobblers on a Haas turning center.
We loved the part when the check came and we all signed your name.
Mosey
Title: Re: It followed me home from Cabin Fever
Post by: GWRdriver on April 16, 2013, 01:11:11 AM
How useful you will find a die filer depends to a great extent on what type of projects you do and what level of finish you want to achieve.  I have a Milwaukee (presently dismantled for a rebuild) and a clunky old Oliver, both table-top models, and the die filer has become one of my most useful tools.  I use it constantly and I've done a couple of jobs I couldn't have done any other way.  I love the nice crisp edges and smooth curves I can get with it and the older I get the smaller (in scale) I expect my projects will become and the more useful I expect my die filer to be.
Title: Re: It followed me home from Cabin Fever
Post by: gary hart on April 16, 2013, 03:03:21 AM
Jewelers saw blade work good in a die filer with over arm.   

 (http://img.photobucket.com/albums/0903/ghart3/Die%20Filer/sawcut.jpg) (http://smg.photobucket.com/user/ghart3/media/Die%20Filer/sawcut.jpg.html)

 (http://img.photobucket.com/albums/0903/ghart3/Die%20Filer/32tpicut.jpg) (http://smg.photobucket.com/user/ghart3/media/Die%20Filer/32tpicut.jpg.html)

Handy attachment that clamps to upper blade clamp has magnets in it that hold a spray paint can for shaking the can.

(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/0903/ghart3/Die%20Filer/Diefilespaintshaker.jpg) (http://smg.photobucket.com/user/ghart3/media/Die%20Filer/Diefilespaintshaker.jpg.html)
Title: Re: It followed me home from Cabin Fever
Post by: sshire on April 16, 2013, 04:16:56 AM
Bravo Gary! The spray can shaker is brilliant
Title: Re: It followed me home from Cabin Fever
Post by: Mosey on April 16, 2013, 04:36:53 PM
Well, I saw that machine and walked right by, thinking I can always go back and look at it. Wrong!
Now I need one.
Is it Martin that sells a casting kit? Whatever happened to Metal Lathe Accessories? Are they still around?
Who has the best filer kit?
What about a mini belt sander for smoothing edges?
What do I do here, guys?
Mosey
Title: Re: It followed me home from Cabin Fever
Post by: steamer on April 16, 2013, 05:23:21 PM

Well, I saw that machine and walked right by, thinking I can always go back and look at it. Wrong!
Now I need one.
Is it Martin that sells a casting kit? Whatever happened to Metal Lathe Accessories? Are they still around?
Who has the best filer kit?
What about a mini belt sander for smoothing edges?
What do I do here, guys?
Mosey

Yes they are Mosey!   Nice unit too!

Dave
Title: Re: It followed me home from Cabin Fever
Post by: mklotz on April 16, 2013, 05:28:31 PM
I would kill for a die filer.  I don't have room in my shop for one but I could always move the wife's car out to the street if I found one.

In the meantime, I make do with two less-than-perfect alternatives.

I fitted my Dremel contraption with a table so it could be used as a miniature, stationary drum sander...


(http://i81.photobucket.com/albums/j234/mklotz/tools/Dremel/dremel3.jpg) (http://s81.photobucket.com/user/mklotz/media/tools/Dremel/dremel3.jpg.html)

(http://i81.photobucket.com/albums/j234/mklotz/tools/Dremel/dremel4.jpg) (http://s81.photobucket.com/user/mklotz/media/tools/Dremel/dremel4.jpg.html)

A major limitation is the fact that, for filing interior to an opening, the sanding drum has to fit into the opening.  Even the smallest drum is larger than a slim file.


My other foray was to build a miniature die filer.  This model clamps into the workbench vise and uses a Scotch yoke drive powered by an electric drill.  I don't have any proper downstroke-cutting files so I use diamond files.  Again, it works, sort of, but will never be a match for a real die filer.

(http://i81.photobucket.com/albums/j234/mklotz/tools/FILE1.jpg) (http://s81.photobucket.com/user/mklotz/media/tools/FILE1.jpg.html)

(http://i81.photobucket.com/albums/j234/mklotz/tools/FILE2.jpg) (http://s81.photobucket.com/user/mklotz/media/tools/FILE2.jpg.html)

(http://i81.photobucket.com/albums/j234/mklotz/tools/FILE3.jpg) (http://s81.photobucket.com/user/mklotz/media/tools/FILE3.jpg.html)


I'm told (i.e., no evidence) that some high-end die filers used a D-drive similar to the film advance drive in older movie projectors to pull the file back from the work on the upstroke.  Supposedly this reduced wear on the files.
Title: Re: It followed me home from Cabin Fever
Post by: steamer on April 16, 2013, 05:35:32 PM
Marv,

At home I have a picture of a die filer that was mounted to, and driven by the lathe.    It had a MT2 shank mount to the TS, and was driven by scotch yoke by the headstock with a tilting table.    Slick unit for those with little room.

I'll post a picture of it this evening....You could knock one of these out in no time Marv.

Dave
Title: Re: It followed me home from Cabin Fever
Post by: GWRdriver on April 16, 2013, 06:16:49 PM
I agree with Dave, you could knock one of these miniature die filers (a la Marv) out in short order.  Very clever, and useful.  I would say that 80% of the die filer work I do could be done on one of these.  I have seen a couple of MLA die filers finished up and they make a very nice looking machine and from what I hear they do a first rate job.

As for files, those are becoming hard to find and of course more expensive.  I wonder though, if there are enough die filers in use (ie, demand) if one of the file mfgs might not agree do a run of files?  Something along these lines happened with Atlas.  Some years ago, after Atlas was absorbed by Clausing, Atlas/Craftsman parts of all types virtually disappeared but then some bright lad at Clausing realized there was a profit to be made in Atlas parts, so now there are parts available.
Title: Re: It followed me home from Cabin Fever
Post by: mklotz on April 16, 2013, 06:45:03 PM
Victor says they have files...

http://www.victornet.com/subdepartments/Parallel-Machine-Files/2215.html?id=TzmenX8s
Title: Re: It followed me home from Cabin Fever
Post by: steamer on April 17, 2013, 02:07:41 AM
Here's the pictures Marv

(http://i164.photobucket.com/albums/u27/mcandrew1894/Filingattachmentpicture2_zps209ac199.jpg) (http://s164.photobucket.com/user/mcandrew1894/media/Filingattachmentpicture2_zps209ac199.jpg.html)

(http://i164.photobucket.com/albums/u27/mcandrew1894/Filingattachmentpicture_zps556e25a5.jpg) (http://s164.photobucket.com/user/mcandrew1894/media/Filingattachmentpicture_zps556e25a5.jpg.html)

Mounts in the TS and is driven by the HS.....and can hang on the wall.

Actually Marv....I bet you could modify the one you have to do the same!

Dave
Title: Re: It followed me home from Cabin Fever
Post by: Don1966 on April 17, 2013, 03:11:39 AM
Or you could build Harold Hall's filing machine. This machine is driven by the lathe or a motor. http://www.homews.co.uk/page498.html check it out all plans are free.

Don
Title: Re: It followed me home from Cabin Fever
Post by: b.lindsey on April 17, 2013, 11:45:32 AM
Interesting link Don...it is quite a robust design from the looks of it too!!

Bill
Title: Re: It followed me home from Cabin Fever
Post by: Mosey on April 17, 2013, 12:54:10 PM
Here's the pictures Marv

(http://i164.photobucket.com/albums/u27/mcandrew1894/Filingattachmentpicture2_zps209ac199.jpg) (http://s164.photobucket.com/user/mcandrew1894/media/Filingattachmentpicture2_zps209ac199.jpg.html)

(http://i164.photobucket.com/albums/u27/mcandrew1894/Filingattachmentpicture_zps556e25a5.jpg) (http://s164.photobucket.com/user/mcandrew1894/media/Filingattachmentpicture_zps556e25a5.jpg.html)

Mounts in the TS and is driven by the HS.....and can hang on the wall.

Actually Marv....I bet you could modify the one you have to do the same!

Dave

How does the lathe connect to drive it?
M.
Title: Re: It followed me home from Cabin Fever
Post by: steamer on April 17, 2013, 01:35:10 PM
A straight shank goes in the chuck and connected to theat is a crank disk.  The crank pin with a block goes into the block shown....turn the chuck and you have reciprocating motion.

Dave
Title: Re: It followed me home from Cabin Fever
Post by: Mosey on April 17, 2013, 02:07:43 PM
Those are some lovely castings. Where do they come from?
Title: Re: It followed me home from Cabin Fever
Post by: steamer on April 17, 2013, 02:10:18 PM
No idea....it was an ebay item....which I should have bid on!..... :wallbang:
Title: Re: It followed me home from Cabin Fever
Post by: Bogstandard on April 17, 2013, 11:08:48 PM
I too have a very nice die filer, kindly donated by Stew to my workshop when it was rebuilt with all new machinery a few years ago.

In this view, it shows it fitted with the spring loaded top follower, which allows it to be used with hacksaw blades and very thin files.

(http://i202.photobucket.com/albums/aa102/bogstandard_photos/Bogs%20pictures/File1.jpg)

The table does tilt a little either way, just in case you want to put an accurate angle onto something you are cutting.

(http://i202.photobucket.com/albums/aa102/bogstandard_photos/Bogs%20pictures/File6.jpg)

A close up of the tensioning head, and the hold down bar which stops the job lifting up from the table

(http://i202.photobucket.com/albums/aa102/bogstandard_photos/Bogs%20pictures/File5.jpg)

I also bought a load of new files from the link shown above, but they are mainly for just sticking up through the table, not held on their top end.

(http://i202.photobucket.com/albums/aa102/bogstandard_photos/Later%20pics/Diefiles.jpg)

For that sort of work, you need another arm with an anti lift bar and pressure support fitted, but no tensioner. Shown here laying on the bench in front of machine. You really do need that back support roller as when you are using long and thin files, with the pressure of you pushing, it prevents the file from being snapped off.

(http://i202.photobucket.com/albums/aa102/bogstandard_photos/Bogs%20pictures/File8.jpg)

The anti lift bar is a critical part, you risk serious injury if you try to use one of these machines without one, they have a lot of power, and can easily guillotine a misplaced bit of finger off.

This is a piece of 1/8" thick brass, and using a parallel chainsaw file, took only a few seconds to do this damage (just trying the machine out really).

(http://i202.photobucket.com/albums/aa102/bogstandard_photos/Bogs%20pictures/File9.jpg)

This is it being used as a small power hacksaw, I needed to cut 60 1/4" steel bars for making my toolholder holders, and this little machine did it in minutes.

(http://i202.photobucket.com/albums/aa102/bogstandard_photos/Bogs%20pictures/holder01.jpg)

I replaced the normal v-belt with a Redthane one, which allows me to change speeds by just stretching the belt and dropping it onto the other sheave, rather than slackening and tightening the motor mount.

(http://i202.photobucket.com/albums/aa102/bogstandard_photos/Bogs%20pictures/Belt09.jpg)

So in reality, if you do a lot of profiling, shaping material, cutting or even cleaning up and shaping of castings etc, one of these little machines becomes indispensable in the shop, and if you have the chance to get hold of one, buy it, you won't be disappointed.

I hope this has shown you a bit more of an insight into one of these least known machines.


John
Title: Re: It followed me home from Cabin Fever
Post by: tel on April 17, 2013, 11:21:40 PM
Extremely nice machine John - I'm sure I couls shoehorn that into my workshop somewhere!  ;)
Title: Re: It followed me home from Cabin Fever
Post by: sshire on April 17, 2013, 11:28:29 PM
Very nice John!
I don't have the back support for shorter files. The overarm follower on mine will stretch down a bit.
I agree on the hold down. Essential. I'll take a photo of the Oliver hold down and post it. Simple, and may be useful as a guide for making it for those who don't have one.
BTW, both Oliver and Victor aka victornet.com have files. Chainsaw files are parallel and I picked up two sizes at the big box store today. They should work fine upside down.
Title: Re: It followed me home from Cabin Fever
Post by: Bogstandard on April 18, 2013, 12:14:15 AM
Chainsaw files are great.

The ones I can get come in three sizes, and they are dirt cheap compared to normal good quality files.

You can cut them into short lengths to be used for table protruding ones, maybe just an inch or so. But I prefer to leave them long and use the top tensioned support.

(http://i202.photobucket.com/albums/aa102/bogstandard_photos/Later%20pics/SCOTT02.jpg)

Fettling a rough flywheel casting using a large half round with no top support, no hold down bar because the file had a very smooth cut plus there was nowhere to put the hold down onto. I had to keep a good downwards pressure to stop the casting flying up into the air.

(http://i202.photobucket.com/albums/aa102/bogstandard_photos/Later%20pics/SCOTT03.jpg)

Rough cleaned up, in just a few minutes.
You can see by the marks on the file how much stroke you have to work with.


John
Title: Re: It followed me home from Cabin Fever
Post by: Dave Otto on April 18, 2013, 02:00:16 AM
I purchased a die filer last summer from a local machinery dealer ( I have always wanted one); I haven't had time to do much with it though.

I did purchase an assortment of files from Victor Machinery; and at the GEARS show last year I was able to purchase some smaller files from Gary Martin (Martin Model & Pattern). I'm getting close to having more money invested in files than I paid for the machine.

I need to clean it up and at least change the oil but I would like to strip it down completely and give it  a thorough going over and a fresh coat of paint.

Dave
Title: Re: It followed me home from Cabin Fever
Post by: gary hart on April 18, 2013, 03:45:28 AM

Using a bi-metal hacksaw blade grind most of the blade away behind the teeth in the area it will be cutting works real good for sawing curved lines in fairly heavy material.     View looking under table.
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/0903/ghart3/Die%20Filer/hacksawblade.jpg) (http://smg.photobucket.com/user/ghart3/media/Die%20Filer/hacksawblade.jpg.html)


A VFD (variable frequency drive) is nice as gives all the speeds between too fast and too slow without out any belt changing.
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/0903/ghart3/Die%20Filer/diefiler.jpg) (http://smg.photobucket.com/user/ghart3/media/Die%20Filer/diefiler.jpg.html)