Model Engine Maker

Supporting => My Workshop => Topic started by: John Hill on March 26, 2013, 06:50:37 AM

Title: Grayson lathe...
Post by: John Hill on March 26, 2013, 06:50:37 AM
Being as how I am on a seven day weekend nowadays there was no excuse not to start checking out the Grayson lathe especially as I was fully rested after the 1206km drive to get it!

Obviously it has been well loved at some time during the last 70 years or so.  Someone has fitted felt wipers and made a number of little 'enhancements' such as this depth gauging doohickey on the tail stock...
(http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8509/8591769108_e2a36fbb9f.jpg) (http://www.flickr.com/photos/25239206@N06/8591769108/)
IMGP1387 (http://www.flickr.com/photos/25239206@N06/8591769108/) by aardvark_akubra (http://www.flickr.com/people/25239206@N06/), on Flickr


Maybe it was the same person who made this rotating centre which I assume is shop built..
(http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8376/8591766488_fe06c34a81.jpg) (http://www.flickr.com/photos/25239206@N06/8591766488/)
IMGP1389 (http://www.flickr.com/photos/25239206@N06/8591766488/) by aardvark_akubra (http://www.flickr.com/people/25239206@N06/), on Flickr

But somewhere along the line someone had an oops while trying to lock the bull gear to the spindle..
(http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8108/8590670467_13955f4fdc.jpg) (http://www.flickr.com/photos/25239206@N06/8590670467/)
IMGP1386 (http://www.flickr.com/photos/25239206@N06/8590670467/) by aardvark_akubra (http://www.flickr.com/people/25239206@N06/), on Flickr
Title: Re: Grayson lathe...
Post by: John Hill on March 26, 2013, 06:51:23 AM
I had to have a little nip of  'medicine', just to steady my nerves, before putting the bull gear in the four jaw chuck and turning off the broken bit...
(http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8516/8591763804_d84a6dc6f7.jpg) (http://www.flickr.com/photos/25239206@N06/8591763804/)
IMGP1390 (http://www.flickr.com/photos/25239206@N06/8591763804/) by aardvark_akubra (http://www.flickr.com/people/25239206@N06/), on Flickr

It took absolute ages to turn up a collar especially as I had to also turn up a scrap arbor (just so everything would be properly centred) which I offered up to the newly turned side of the bull gear and drilled three 4mm holes.  I used my drill mount which was one of my earliest projects...
(http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8377/8590660931_15b6d084c4.jpg) (http://www.flickr.com/photos/25239206@N06/8590660931/)
IMGP1391 (http://www.flickr.com/photos/25239206@N06/8590660931/) by aardvark_akubra (http://www.flickr.com/people/25239206@N06/), on Flickr

I also had a root around in my box of 'old projects' and found this index attachment which I made about the same time as I made that drill mount..
(http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8383/8591758764_3b42868059.jpg) (http://www.flickr.com/photos/25239206@N06/8591758764/)
IMGP1392 (http://www.flickr.com/photos/25239206@N06/8591758764/) by aardvark_akubra (http://www.flickr.com/people/25239206@N06/), on Flickr
Title: Re: Grayson lathe...
Post by: John Hill on March 26, 2013, 06:52:20 AM
I tapped the collar for a set screw and attached the collar to the bull gear using three ultra long rivets (which I found in my nail drawer)..
(http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8388/8590655557_095f22be52.jpg) (http://www.flickr.com/photos/25239206@N06/8590655557/)
IMGP1393 (http://www.flickr.com/photos/25239206@N06/8590655557/) by aardvark_akubra (http://www.flickr.com/people/25239206@N06/), on Flickr

Put it all back and everything fits!
(http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8225/8591754016_07475d3085.jpg) (http://www.flickr.com/photos/25239206@N06/8591754016/)
IMGP1395 (http://www.flickr.com/photos/25239206@N06/8591754016/) by aardvark_akubra (http://www.flickr.com/people/25239206@N06/), on Flickr

The indexing attachment is very nicely made, it came with two plates ( a number 1 and a number 2) which are stamped 1939.
Title: Re: Grayson lathe...
Post by: Bogstandard on March 26, 2013, 07:57:04 AM
Actually John, on my old Atlas, it had a very similar arrangement on the bull wheel.

If you notice the hole through the bull wheel, the one with the cross drilling across it, that is where a spring loaded pin goes through to lock the bull wheel to the drive pulley.

When the pin is retracted, it allows the back gears to be used.
When they are swung forwards, the large back gear connects with the small spindle gear (which is also driven by the pulley) which then goes through the reduction shaft to drive the bull gear, after you loosen the screw attaching the pulley to the spindle, otherwise everything just locks up solid.

John
Title: Re: Grayson lathe...
Post by: John Hill on March 26, 2013, 08:40:35 AM
Hi John,  yes, I took a spring loaded pin out of the hole in the bull gear.  I should really make another one as it was a very sloppy fit in the hole in the side of the big belt pulley. 

I had quite a tussle getting the spindle apart as the belt pulley (and it's attached small gear) are a very tight fit on the spindle, perhaps because there is no way of lubricating them, I drilled an oil hole.  This lathe has a slide to engage the back gear, at least one of the gears has to come off the shaft so it can be slid aside when changing the belt (unless you are using a belt with a joiner) but it looks like the last time that was done someone drove a pin into a blind hole, that might be a day's project like the bull gear has been.

Cheers, John.
Title: Re: Grayson lathe...
Post by: steamer on March 26, 2013, 11:02:08 AM
Fine looking lathe there John...nice score!  and a nice job fixing her....she just needs some TLC......I know a lot about TLC.. ::)


Use her well!

Dave
Title: Re: Grayson lathe...
Post by: John Hill on March 31, 2013, 06:37:38 AM
Looking under the cross slide to find the cause of the backlash I found this...

(http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8522/8605550718_dcc9b4c9eb.jpg) (http://www.flickr.com/photos/25239206@N06/8605550718/)
IMGP1396 (http://www.flickr.com/photos/25239206@N06/8605550718/) by aardvark_akubra (http://www.flickr.com/people/25239206@N06/), on Flickr

... there is really no thread at all remaining in the casting.

Instead there was this..
(http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8539/8604445717_246ac2aa10.jpg) (http://www.flickr.com/photos/25239206@N06/8604445717/)
IMGP1397 (http://www.flickr.com/photos/25239206@N06/8604445717/) by aardvark_akubra (http://www.flickr.com/people/25239206@N06/), on Flickr
... a brass nut that rested in the trough of the saddle casting with a length of steel pipe dropped in to stop it moving.  Of course that was a very loose arrangement.   I will be drilling and pinning the nut in position which I hope will be a major improvement.
Title: Re: Grayson lathe...
Post by: steamer on March 31, 2013, 06:52:30 AM
I don't think I've ever seen a lathe worn like that!

Is there enough meat to put in a proper piece of iron?

Dave
Title: Re: Grayson lathe...
Post by: John Hill on March 31, 2013, 06:54:01 AM
There was no topslide with the lathe, instead there was this..
(http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8402/8605569604_202afbd79a.jpg) (http://www.flickr.com/photos/25239206@N06/8605569604/)
IMGP1407 (http://www.flickr.com/photos/25239206@N06/8605569604/) by aardvark_akubra (http://www.flickr.com/people/25239206@N06/), on Flickr

I was almost certain that was a little milling slide that has been 'modified' somewhat and tack welded to a bit of plate.

I cut it off the plate and sure enough, the evidence was right there showing where the t slots had been cut off with a grinder.

(http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8264/8605565174_71773cd630.jpg) (http://www.flickr.com/photos/25239206@N06/8605565174/)
IMGP1409 (http://www.flickr.com/photos/25239206@N06/8605565174/) by aardvark_akubra (http://www.flickr.com/people/25239206@N06/), on Flickr

Unfortunately the remaining metal was rather thin so I only took a couple of light cuts to try for a level surface.  Even when I had taken off as much as I dared there was still about 50% of it below the level... :-\

Obviously I have to mount this slide on something to make up for the loss of strength and really the best stuff I have on hand is this piece of plate.  I don't really want to weld it and I don't have anything big enough to heat it all at once to braze it on... :thinking:

Stay tuned....
Title: Re: Grayson lathe...
Post by: John Hill on March 31, 2013, 06:56:36 AM
Hi Steamer..  I have gone with using the brass nut..
(http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8533/8605567520_b41ce37cce.jpg) (http://www.flickr.com/photos/25239206@N06/8605567520/)
IMGP1408 (http://www.flickr.com/photos/25239206@N06/8605567520/) by aardvark_akubra (http://www.flickr.com/people/25239206@N06/), on Flickr

It was quite difficult to get the solder to tin the cast iron but I did get a bit of attachment,  I have since added a couple of 4mm pins and it feels quite good.
Title: Re: Grayson lathe...
Post by: steamer on March 31, 2013, 07:02:24 AM
Looks like you've got your work cut out for ya John!

Dave
Title: Re: Grayson lathe...
Post by: John Hill on March 31, 2013, 07:11:19 AM
This time next week it will be looking like a whole new machine Dave!

Most of the machine seems to have very little wear and I can only assume that the original top slide met with some sort of disaster, maybe at the same time that cross slide thread got busted out.
Title: Re: Grayson lathe...
Post by: steamer on March 31, 2013, 07:13:55 AM
Please keep us posted!  I really like that dividing head!

Dave
Title: Re: Grayson lathe...
Post by: John Hill on March 31, 2013, 07:24:37 AM
The dividing head is very nicely made if it is a home shop job which I somewhat doubt.  The bracket that holds it to the lathe is well made too and considering the date on the plates indicates the dividing head and the lathe are from the same era it just might have been factory fitted or at least fitted by the original owner.

There are two dividing plates, the one that is fitted to the dividing head and another that appears to have been too close to the action when someone was doing some grinding as it has a couple of significant nicks in it.
Title: Re: Grayson lathe...
Post by: John Hill on April 04, 2013, 06:58:05 AM
Today's progress!
(http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8529/8617689993_4cf755c3ea.jpg) (http://www.flickr.com/photos/25239206@N06/8617689993/)
IMGP1411 (http://www.flickr.com/photos/25239206@N06/8617689993/) by aardvark_akubra (http://www.flickr.com/people/25239206@N06/), on Flickr

The result of my efforts to convert the 'modified' milling slide to lathe top slide,  I just need to drill and tap for a tool holder.   I used a T nut to clamp it in place so there is plenty of scope for moving it around on the cross slide.

Title: Re: Grayson lathe...
Post by: steamer on April 04, 2013, 11:03:39 AM
Looks like progress to me! :praise2:

Dave
Title: Re: Grayson lathe...
Post by: John Hill on April 04, 2013, 11:19:11 AM
Thanks, but I found a problem....... :'(

The top slide is held to the cross slide by a 10mm screw into a T nut but this does not have enough clamping force.  I can tighten the screw as hard as I dare and still move the top slide.  That is a mild steel plate on the bottom of the top slide sliding on the cast iron of the cross slide.  I wonder how I can modify the surface(s) to get more friction?
Title: Re: Grayson lathe...
Post by: steamer on April 04, 2013, 11:23:38 AM
Hows the bearing of the two parts John?....is it warped?

If it fits decent, a bit of paper in between will make a big difference.

Dave
Title: Re: Grayson lathe...
Post by: steamer on April 04, 2013, 11:46:27 AM
John

I suspect that one or both interface surfaces is crowned...high at the bolt..so it's only touching in a small circle around the bolt....so no holding torque what so ever.

Do some investigation and check that...a little hi spot would do it, but a good layer of magic marker will do in pinch.

Might need a bit of scraping.....or a flycut on the mill...very gently...only take off as much as you need to get flat so it doesn't warp more.

Assume both surfaces are NOT flat, unless they prove to be innocent!   8)  CHECK IT...don't just cut it...you don't have a lot of stock to cut there needlessly.

Dave
Title: Re: Grayson lathe...
Post by: PeterE on April 04, 2013, 05:58:13 PM
Too bad when things like this occurs. But I got a perhaps wild idea as follows.

Would it be possible to turn or mill a shallow circular recess with a diameter large enough to seat something like a piston ring at the circumference of the "foot". That would lift the center away from the cross-slide and greatly increase the clamping force. The piston ring should be possible to glue in place as it only needs to be clamped between the cross-slide and the top slide, and I do not think it would remove too much material as it is for guidance only.

Crazy but just a thought.

BR

/Peter
Title: Re: Grayson lathe...
Post by: steamer on April 04, 2013, 06:11:52 PM
Actually Peter, thats a good idea.   A few thou deep recess in the middle would probably do it just fine.

Might be the easiest thing to do.

Dave
Title: Re: Grayson lathe...
Post by: John Hill on April 04, 2013, 08:07:04 PM
Thanks for those ideas.  The piston ring is a good idea Peter which I will look closely at!  Of course I will be trying your paper gasket first Dave.
Title: Re: Grayson lathe...all fixed!
Post by: John Hill on April 09, 2013, 07:41:34 AM
Here we are with a nice coat of blue paint! :D

(http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8260/8634206832_6dbaea3c34.jpg) (http://www.flickr.com/photos/25239206@N06/8634206832/)
IMGP1417 (http://www.flickr.com/photos/25239206@N06/8634206832/) by aardvark_akubra (http://www.flickr.com/people/25239206@N06/), on Flickr

Jobs done,  bull gear broken hub repaired, bull gear lock fashioned and fitted, top slide fashioned from a broken vertical slide, cross slide feed screw and nut fixed.  Also swapped out a lot of screws and bolts that had seen better days and treated it to half my stash of new steel washers!
Title: Re: Grayson lathe...
Post by: Jo on April 09, 2013, 07:49:24 AM
 :ThumbsUp: Looking forward to seeing it make some swarf  ;D

Jo
Title: Re: Grayson lathe...
Post by: John Hill on April 09, 2013, 08:00:41 AM
That will be a little while Jo. 

I intend to make some sort of box to mount it on and having flat belts means I have to work out a drive system.  It came with the original ceiling or wall mount line shaft unit with fast/loose pulleys and gimbaled mounts but I don't really want to build something that big. 

An underdrive would be fine but the bed casting is wider than the smallest pulley diameter which complicates that idea.
Title: Re: Grayson lathe...
Post by: Jo on April 09, 2013, 08:08:58 AM
What you need next is something like my little R&B gas engine to run it  ;)

Jo
Title: Re: Grayson lathe...
Post by: Rayanth on April 09, 2013, 08:20:15 AM
dang, John, that looks too crisp and clean to use! It almost appears that it belongs in a museum... I'd be afraid to use it  8)

-- Rayanth
Title: Re: Grayson lathe...
Post by: John Hill on April 09, 2013, 08:21:51 AM
Yes, the blue is a bit of a shock when I see it on screen!
Title: Re: Grayson lathe...
Post by: John Hill on April 09, 2013, 08:28:39 AM
What you need next is something like my little R&B gas engine to run it  ;)

Jo



That would be nice Jo!  I could take it all outdoors in the fine weather and not have to sweep the floor afterwards! :pinkelephant:
Title: Re: Grayson lathe...
Post by: steamer on April 09, 2013, 11:36:48 AM
Nice looking lathe John!....did you mark up that compound?....that one has been lurking in the back of my mind.... :headscratch:

Dave
Title: Re: Grayson lathe...
Post by: John Hill on April 09, 2013, 12:03:03 PM
Hi Dave, yes, I painted the bottom of the compound with ink and scraped where it was touching.  No doubt far from a proficient scraping job but it does seem to lock well enough now.

I still have to design and make a tool holder, maybe a simplified Norman style as was fitted to many Drummonds of the era.
Title: Re: Grayson lathe...
Post by: b.lindsey on April 09, 2013, 12:28:13 PM
I have been following along quietly John. Just want to jump in and say what a nice transformation you have made on the lathe. I am sure it will pay you back many times over with years of good service.  Thanks for sharing the restoration!!

Bill
Title: Re: Grayson lathe...
Post by: John Hill on April 09, 2013, 08:55:59 PM
Thanks Bill.  I am undecided what to actually do with it as there is no shop space for it and I already have a Drummond (c.1908) sitting on one bench.

(http://farm6.staticflickr.com/5015/5579100166_4624004868.jpg) (http://www.flickr.com/photos/25239206@N06/5579100166/)
IMGP9196 (http://www.flickr.com/photos/25239206@N06/5579100166/) by aardvark_akubra (http://www.flickr.com/people/25239206@N06/), on Flickr
Title: Re: Grayson lathe...
Post by: steamer on April 09, 2013, 09:19:16 PM
Oh I like that!

Dave
Title: Re: Grayson lathe...
Post by: Jo on April 09, 2013, 09:22:36 PM
 8) I can always find space for an additional lathe or two (or three) .

Jo
Title: Grayson lathe...
Post by: ths on April 09, 2013, 09:22:40 PM
John, I think you should do a project from some late 1940's Model Engineers, wearing a plain shirt with a button on collar (but omitting the collar), serge trousers and leather shoes. You may find you like the clobber so much that you keep the lathe.

Hugh.
Title: Re: Grayson lathe...
Post by: sasquatch on April 09, 2013, 09:29:16 PM
 Wow, real nice John, you did a heck of a nice job on that!! Beauty!!
Title: Re: Grayson lathe...
Post by: Pete49 on April 10, 2013, 03:41:34 AM
John to save you all that worry I think its time to visit the big island and bring the Drummond with you. I have room for it here and won't charge storage while you decide what to do. :Lol:
Pete 
yes I know but I'm just a generous guy that wants to help out :lolb:
Title: Re: Grayson lathe...
Post by: John Hill on April 10, 2013, 07:36:02 AM
Cant do that Pete!  My ancestors immigrated from the West Island about 1895 and I would hate to run into any relatives! :ROFL:
Title: Re: Grayson lathe...
Post by: John Hill on April 10, 2013, 07:38:27 AM
8) I can always find space for an additional lathe or two (or three) .

Jo

Oh dear! You just made me do a mental count!  One 12x36 Chinese, Drummond c 1908,  Grayson c 1930's, Sherline (one of the very early ones made in Australia) and a little Adept. :embarassed:
Title: Re: Grayson lathe...
Post by: John Hill on April 10, 2013, 07:38:49 AM
Wow, real nice John, you did a heck of a nice job on that!! Beauty!!

Thanks...
Title: Re: Grayson lathe...
Post by: John Hill on April 10, 2013, 07:39:38 AM
John, I think you should do a project from some late 1940's Model Engineers, wearing a plain shirt with a button on collar (but omitting the collar), serge trousers and leather shoes. You may find you like the clobber so much that you keep the lathe.

Hugh.

Errrr, have you been peeping in my workshop window? :ROFL:
Title: Re: Grayson lathe...
Post by: John Hill on April 10, 2013, 07:40:28 AM
Oh I like that!

Dave

I fear much of the bling is a product of the camera. O:-)
Title: Re: Grayson lathe...ready for action!
Post by: John Hill on April 23, 2013, 11:18:44 AM
The little Grayson is (almost) ready for action!

Sitting on the mobile bench I made for it..

(http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8260/8675101356_54faa35031.jpg) (http://www.flickr.com/photos/25239206@N06/8675101356/)
DSCN0545 (http://www.flickr.com/photos/25239206@N06/8675101356/) by aardvark_akubra (http://www.flickr.com/people/25239206@N06/), on Flickr


Showing the rather nice flat belt assembly that came with it..
(http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8392/8673997173_3739e9ef38.jpg) (http://www.flickr.com/photos/25239206@N06/8673997173/)
DSCN0546 (http://www.flickr.com/photos/25239206@N06/8673997173/) by aardvark_akubra (http://www.flickr.com/people/25239206@N06/), on Flickr


I had to make the handle assembly..you can see the mechanism by clicking here.. .http://flic.kr/p/edAb4L

According to Tony's site the pulley assembly was likely sold with the lathe.

I have made a top slide (actually, I adapted another slide to the task) and fitted a simple tool holder which is not perfect but seems to do the task.

The change gears (of which I have 24!) are driven by the most pathetic 2mm diameter pins and they all wobble on the shafts and stubs so there is a bit of work needed there.  I think half the gears are actually Myford gears being a little thicker, having a keyway and painted the right colour. However the Myford gears are not quite as 'elegant' as the others with their decorative holes.
Title: Grayson lathe...
Post by: ths on April 23, 2013, 12:37:26 PM
That looks wonderful, John. Looks as though its ready to be used in an operating theatre!

Hugh.