Wow, Chris! I'm going to be following you on this one for sure! :popcorn:I will be putting up the drawings as I go in the build, maybe it will get pulled into a book someday (love to hire Kozo to draft it all!).
If you choose to put out a set of drawings, or even a book based on your build, I'll buy it from you!
You don't think small, do you Chris? This is going to be fascinating!
Kim
This will be fun to watch.
Stock Drive Products has the smallest roller chain I know of. The price is a bit steep but making chain will be tedious.
https://shop.sdp-si.com/catalog/?cid=p303 (https://shop.sdp-si.com/catalog/?cid=p303)
Dan
Quite a challenge. In your shoes I'd likely send those track pieces out to be laser cut.
Hey Chris
Good to see that you are getting started on the Lombard; what are you going to do after Christmas? :lolb:
I will be following along with great interest. :DrinkPint: :popcorn:
Dave
:whoohoo: I've been looking forward to this build Chris.
Excellent documentation to lay the ground work for this project! :ThumbsUp:
Time to stock up on :popcorn:
Jim
Wow! This is going to be a great show. I am happy to see you undertake the undercarriage parts yourself. Just one track frame with sprockets and tracks would be a challenge for anyone. You will surely produce a great model.Hi Jerry,
Tracks are an area of special interest to me since I spent a fair part of my life in the construction equipment industry, mostly involved with surface mining machines. The biggest Caterpillar and Komatsu dozers are used in strip mining and the details of track maintenance and repair constitute a a major share of the operating expense for these huge machines. Draglines and power shovels are also track mounted but they move material by swinging a long boom rather that pushing it around, track wear is less of an expense factor.
Lombard's early track design was much more like today's dragline or shovel tracks than they are like modern buldozers. The track pads or plates of today's dozers do not incorporate a pivot pin. They are bolted to links which are pinned together to form the track chain. Lombard's later machines used this link structure but his original machines used pinned pads as you have shown.
There are some details of these pads that do not show up in your plan but may be critical in keeping the track in alignment under the machine. These details can be seen in some of the photos and on other views of the manual. I am talking about the four bars on the inside surface of the pad which form guide channels for the track rollers. These are visible on view 81M of the pad. There is also a large lug in the center that is engaged by the deep groove on the sprockets (#77 and 76 Lags on the manual page). The shallow groove in the sprocket engages the roll #89 which is on the pivot pin but the deep groove engages the lug which is located on the narrow part of the pad in the center.
For a lightly loaded model, you can probably ignore the lug but I think that the guide channels may be important. It will need a thicker plate to start with the channels milled back to your working dimension. I am pretty sure that the originals were cast. You will still want the deep grove in the sprocket to avoid contact with the shoe. I can't help using current terminology for these track parts. Today, we say pads or shoes instead of lags.
Jerry
Chris - I don't know that length makes much difference. There are a lot of pin to pad holes that must be loose enough for the track to flex and it will flex right and left as well as around the sprockets. I see a real challenge in drilling those pivot holes in the padsGood info, thanks! I can see where the side loads on dozers can be much higher, especially when running one forward and one back, which the Lombard can't do, but still will be forces like that. It sounds like it would be a good idea to make up a few sections to test before making mass quantities of them.
The lug doesn't do much for track alignment but the guide chanels may be critical. It is not unusual for a modern dozer to run out of a track if the track is not well maintained and adjusted. Wear of the pivot pins and bushings causes the track to get longer but wear of the sprocket causes it to get smaller and eventually, the difference in pitch will let the sprocket climb out of the track. This usually happens in a turn where there is a lot of side force.
You will not likely get enough wear to make a difference but unless you have enough clearance in the pivot pin holes, the track may be too stiff. The Lombard does not have a very tight turning radius and unlike modern dozers, it has a differential to equalize some of the forces. If you run it on grass or snow there may not be much side force and you can run it with skis instead of wheels.
Chris - Big dozers don't have the ability to counter rotate. That is only on the smaller machines using hydrostatic drives. Big dozers with mechanical drive have a clutch and a brake for each track. For a short turn, one track is locked by releasing the clutch and applying the brake. The other track can run forward or reverse to swing the machine. There were two big dozers that could counter rotate but I don't think it was used often. The Euclid dozer had two separate engines and drive trains that could operate independently and the Komatsu 455 had one engine but two independent transmissions, one for each track. Of course things may have changed a bit in the past twenty years. John Deere has been using hydraulic transmissions in bigger machines but they don't compete in the biggest class of dozers.
It never hurts to make a few test pieces to see where the sticky parts are.
That's a fine challenge you have set for yourself :ThumbsUp: :ThumbsUp: I will be following along :wine1:I was looking at their site for it, looks like a nice magazine. Do you know what issue it was? I looked in their archive but did not see it.
One of this type of log hauler was featured in the German 'Maschinen in Modellbau' magazine a little while ago.
I am sure that you will be happy that you are including the guide channels. You didn't have to go that far to see them. They are clear enough in your first post on this thread in the photo with the rollers. That photo also shows the drive lug. That roller system is a very nice feature and though not used on later track designs looks like it would be very efficient. It brings to mind the recirculating bals in a linear bearing system.
By the way, that same photo is also the only one that I have found that clearly shows that there are two roller chains on each track frame, four in all. I was almost sure that there had to be but it took me more than a few looks at that picture before I spotted the inside rollers and chain, peeking through the spokes of the sprocket.
Hi Chris,The boiler burner is going to be one from a Gauge 1 supplier, as will the butane tank. I have that setup in a couple of locos, nice and simple both to build and to run. The original was fired on coal or wood, but for easy running, plus ability to run indoors at events, butane is a much better choice. The outside of the firebox will be shaped to look like the original but inside there will be the single burner into one larger firetube.
:popcorn: :popcorn: oh and more :popcorn:, plus :DrinkPint: or two to wash it down with all sorted!
You don't let the grass grow under your feet! Once you get this finished any grass left growing at your place is going to be under threat!
Question for you..... How come you are not building a full loco style boiler, ie multi tubes but only a fire tube?
Cheers Kerrin
For display at shows, hopefully you'll be able to raise the model so that the tracks can be seen moving in place.
In the 'Small World' vein, you found that some work was done at the University of Maine on the restoration. Brian Barker, who now owns the Mach3 CNC software business was at the U then and made the cylinder, Piston and rod, and some track rollers. I just told him about your project and he is interested. Why dont you come out to Maine for a few days, we can visit the museum and Brians shop.Wow! I was just looking at the pics and drawings of that work the other day! Great job on them.They posted the cad drawings of those parts, which will be very helpful to me when I get to the engine. I was hoping to get up there next spring or summer when they have an event with their hauler going. By then also enough should be built to show them the work. Is Brians shop in tnat area too? I'll be in touch!
What a great project Chris! I'll be following this one closely!
John
Wow! I was just looking at the pics and drawings of that work the other day! Great job on them.They posted the cad drawings of those parts, which will be very helpful to me when I get to the engine. I was hoping to get up there next spring or summer when they have an event with their hauler going. By then also enough should be built to show them the work. Is Brians shop in tnat area too? I'll be in touch!
QuoteWow! I was just looking at the pics and drawings of that work the other day! Great job on them.They posted the cad drawings of those parts, which will be very helpful to me when I get to the engine. I was hoping to get up there next spring or summer when they have an event with their hauler going. By then also enough should be built to show them the work. Is Brians shop in tnat area too? I'll be in touch!
Well, by Maine standards we are all pretty close, but Maine is a big place, and a couple hundred miles is no big deal. Its about 60 miles for me to Brians shop, and maybe 100 to the lumber museum, not in the same direction of course.
Just checking in Chris to see if this thing is running yet :lolb: Nice work on the track parts so far though!!
Bill
Chris you just keep spitting these engines out bud. I have to ask, do you sleep? Always nice to follow along to some great craftsmanship........ :ThumbsUp:Lots of sleep, I just get a lot more done on my own projects after retiring. Lots of hobbies, lots of fun!
Don
Chris, I can assure you it looks perfect like all of your work does. You're gonna love driving it around the house or yard :) which brings up a question...how your going to steer this thing...servo? or just let it go where it wants. Darn, guess I will have to fire the Delorean back up and go check that out...forgot to on the last visit :lolb:
Bill
Chris, I can assure you it looks perfect like all of your work does. You're gonna love driving it around the house or yard :) which brings up a question...how your going to steer this thing...servo? or just let it go where it wants. Darn, guess I will have to fire the Delorean back up and go check that out...forgot to on the last visit :lolb:
Bill
It will have an RC setup for throttle, fwd/reverse, and steering. Maybe whistle too. The steering link will most likely require being able to disconnect the steering wheel since it is gear reduced to the front axle. Fortunately the wood/coal box behind the cab will have plenty of room to hide both radio and the butane tank fir the burner. These days it is common to RC gauge 1 trains so no need to invent anything to control this one. It should scare the nuts off the squirrels!
Chris, I can assure you it looks perfect like all of your work does. You're gonna love driving it around the house or yard :) which brings up a question...how your going to steer this thing...servo? or just let it go where it wants. Darn, guess I will have to fire the Delorean back up and go check that out...forgot to on the last visit :lolb:
Bill
It will have an RC setup for throttle, fwd/reverse, and steering. Maybe whistle too. The steering link will most likely require being able to disconnect the steering wheel since it is gear reduced to the front axle. Fortunately the wood/coal box behind the cab will have plenty of room to hide both radio and the butane tank fir the burner. These days it is common to RC gauge 1 trains so no need to invent anything to control this one. It should scare the nuts off the squirrels!
Yes.............a whistle............for sure gotta have a whistle! :ThumbsUp:
Jim
This is a particularly nice whistle that should fit the Lombard.It would be great to do a multi chime whistle like that one, the length is good, but I would have to make it a smaller diameter. The boiler is 3", a 2" whistle would not fit because of all the drive gears and eccentric valve gear under the boiler. From the text, it sounds (pun!) Like a smaller diameter would make it less loud but same pitches, might be able to fit a 3/4" version, have to see what will fit. Smaller diameter would also need less steam to play, I would think.
http://www.nelsonslocomotive.com/Shay/MorePlumbing/PlumbingXWhistle/PlumbingX.htm
Pete
Sounds like a job for the "Shop Elves" Chris. :naughty: At least it looks like you're in for some bad wx up there = more shop time!
I'm enjoying this build.
Jim
Hello Chris,Yes, I have seen his build, quite a nice job! The Maine museum included the link in one of their posts during the restoration. I've been in contact with the museum, they are running the engine for the last time this year on the 5th, but I cannot make it up there that weekend, definitely want to get there for one of the runs next year!
the Lombard Steam Hauler is an impressive project.
May be the following information can support you.
A model engineer of the Netherlands has posted a lombard project in gauge 1 size on this platform: http://forums.mylargescale.com/18-live-steam/41562-lomberd-steam-log-hauler.html (http://forums.mylargescale.com/18-live-steam/41562-lomberd-steam-log-hauler.html).
He has his own web side with a lot of information of the original engine and a building log of his model here: http://www.depuffendeschoorsteen.com/lombard-steam-log-hauler-/ (http://www.depuffendeschoorsteen.com/lombard-steam-log-hauler-/).
Interesting is also this movie of a restored Lombard ride (w/ pressurized air only):
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=633a6Bej5Ek
Finaly here is a movie of his model:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vLaf3Us6Dxw
Hope you have fun with that information
Richard
I can see where it could get a little redundant when you need an "In Bin" and an "Out Bin" for your parts! :lolb:It would be worse for Jo, imagine building THREE of these!! :Jester:
Jim
Hmmmm ... Your tracks are almost exactly the same size as the 64 pieces I have printed for a radio controlled excavator that must be nearly the same scale. I might have to "borrow" your drawings for the tracks as they are way more sturdy and realistic than the printed ones.
Tom
It would be worse for Jo, imagine building THREE of these!! :Jester:
Hmmmm ... Your tracks are almost exactly the same size as the 64 pieces I have printed for a radio controlled excavator that must be nearly the same scale. I might have to "borrow" your drawings for the tracks as they are way more sturdy and realistic than the printed ones.
Tom
Did you make the rest of the excavator? I've thought about building one of those for a long time, but could not come up with a good way to control the arms/bucket without actual hydraulics.
Thats a neat machine! The tracks are different in that the hinge point is on the inside with a wider lug, where on the lombard the pins are out at the surface. Changing that would mean changing the sprocket and follower wheels I would think. Its clever how that one has the servos right in the upper arms where the hydraulic pistons would be.Hmmmm ... Your tracks are almost exactly the same size as the 64 pieces I have printed for a radio controlled excavator that must be nearly the same scale. I might have to "borrow" your drawings for the tracks as they are way more sturdy and realistic than the printed ones.
Tom
Did you make the rest of the excavator? I've thought about building one of those for a long time, but could not come up with a good way to control the arms/bucket without actual hydraulics.
This is the one I am doing. http://www.thingiverse.com/thing:50110 (http://www.thingiverse.com/thing:50110) It is all printed and I am in the process of making the fastenings and fitting everything together. The "real" R/C ones from Europe do have mini hydraulic systems in them and are all metal, so very heavy. The tracks on this one are very simplistic and since I am not so good with drawing programs, it would be easier for me to machine a set.
Tom
You are right. After another look, I better stay with what is there.
That will be a neat way to weed the garden ... while sitting on the porch with cookies ... or stinking hoppies ... or something.
Tom
You are right. After another look, I better stay with what is there.
That will be a neat way to weed the garden ... while sitting on the porch with cookies ... or stinking hoppies ... or something.
Tom
Are the printed parts strong enough to actually dig?
That is a LOT of cutting Chris. The fit looks spot on though. This is one of those jobs where CNC would be nice but you are almost as fast in manual mode :)
Bill
That is a LOT of cutting Chris. The fit looks spot on though. This is one of those jobs where CNC would be nice but you are almost as fast in manual mode :)
Bill
Thanks Bill! Even with CNC you would have to stay there and change parts, clear chips, etc. Doing these manually really isn't taking that long, and the results are so worth it. The spacing is making it straightforward, 1/8 mill for 1/8" slot, fingers are 1/8" too, so start at zero, turn in/out 4-1/2 turns, move down 5 turns, repeat. For opposite side, reset zero at 2-1/2 turns over once, and same process again. Its only a couple hours of shop time for the whole set.
Things will get interesting when I get to the drive and roller chains. To reproduce them accurately to the original will take a lot of time, but those are the details I love in a true scale model. Like the details in this ship model...
That is a LOT of cutting Chris. The fit looks spot on though. This is one of those jobs where CNC would be nice but you are almost as fast in manual mode :)
Bill
Thanks Bill! Even with CNC you would have to stay there and change parts, clear chips, etc. Doing these manually really isn't taking that long, and the results are so worth it. The spacing is making it straightforward, 1/8 mill for 1/8" slot, fingers are 1/8" too, so start at zero, turn in/out 4-1/2 turns, move down 5 turns, repeat. For opposite side, reset zero at 2-1/2 turns over once, and same process again. Its only a couple hours of shop time for the whole set.
Things will get interesting when I get to the drive and roller chains. To reproduce them accurately to the original will take a lot of time, but those are the details I love in a true scale model. Like the details in this ship model...
I suppose you knocked out that ship on coffee break! :Lol:
Now that you posted the picture of that beautiful model.........we need more details about it......lots of details! :)
Jim
Superb work Chris! (on ship & Lombard)
Any thoughts on the engine you'll use?
Will it be like the Shay or a horizontal type?
John
WOW! Great project! This has been a dream model for me since, as a teen, I first saw them in Live Steam Magazine in the 70's. Do you have those issues?I had been looking for something special for a big build, and instantly fell in love with the Lombard on first seeing it in a post here not long ago.
Looking forward to more of this.
Paul
To paraphrase Mr. Natural, "keep on trackin!" :old:
As they say over in Nashville : "Now that's putting down a track" :ThumbsUp: :ThumbsUp:
Cletus
And a few more batches done on the track plates, just 21 more in the bin to go.... Glad I made some extra ones, so far have botched 2.
Easy to get distracted and miscount turns when doing an odd pattern over and over. Easy to get distracted and miscount turns when doing an odd pattern over and over. Easy to get distracted and miscount turns when doing an odd pattern over and over....!! :ROFL:
As they say over in Nashville : "Now that's putting down a track" :ThumbsUp: :ThumbsUp:
Cletus
Maybe I should take them outside in the mud and "make tracks"!!
And a few more batches done on the track plates, just 21 more in the bin to go.... Glad I made some extra ones, so far have botched 2.
Easy to get distracted and miscount turns when doing an odd pattern over and over. Easy to get distracted and miscount turns when doing an odd pattern over and over. Easy to get distracted and miscount turns when doing an odd pattern over and over....!! :ROFL:
Take a break Chris, have a drink even...It doesn't pay to get yourself into a rut... :lolb:
The tracks look GREAT though!!!
Bill
Boy, that's almost one of those optical conclusions. I kept looking for what you squared off ; it's on one side and not the other :thinking:
Cletus
Looks like you're keeping this project on "track" Chris! :lolb: Hopefully you won't get dis......"track".....ted! Hey..........someone had to say it!The project is gaining track-tion... :Lol:
Jim
Now, that's much better on my eyes . I don't feel like Sunday morning at Woodstock :lolb: :lolb: Nice work :ThumbsUp:
Cletus
Now you just need some advice from Steamer on proper dirt - trackin technique.So I can get the Lombard in a two-track drift on the corners?! New version of sprint cars, 30 haulers on a dirt track... :Lol:
Tom
Now you just need some advice from Steamer on proper dirt - trackin technique.So I can get the Lombard in a two-track drift on the corners?! New version of sprint cars, 30 haulers on a dirt track... :Lol:
Tom
And they're coming around the third turn.....Now you just need some advice from Steamer on proper dirt - trackin technique.So I can get the Lombard in a two-track drift on the corners?! New version of sprint cars, 30 haulers on a dirt track... :Lol:
Tom
I'm thinking that might be about as exciting as watching the "snail" races! :lolb: More noise though!
Jim
This is a great build. I am following along. I have thought different times about making some kind of tracked model, but the sheer volume of work in making the tracks has kept me away from one.---BrianThey seem like a lot of work, but with the right jigs it actually goes right along. I've been doing about 1/2 hour sessions a couple times a day, too long at once and the repetition causes mistakes as my mind wanders off into another room.
That is quite a nice watch band you got there Chris, A bit heavy perhaps but nice!! ;) Looking forward to seeing what is up next.Not very stretchy either! :Lol:
Bill
How much clearance is there now with the larger sized pin holes? Interested to see how you will retain them in the tracks.The holes are a few thou larger than the pins - lets them pivot easy, plus gives the assembly the ability to flex a bit. The pins will be peened over at one end, then a washer held by that. The pin is slid through the track, then another washer, with a cotter pin to hold it on. At least that is pretty much how the real thing is made, I think they welded or forged the disc on the inner end rather than peening it. I will need to make a little clamp bar to peen over the ends to without bending/marring them, and also a drill jig for the cross hole for the cotter. I've seen other builds here that used the drill jig method for centering small holes in round bar, this will be my chance to try doing the same.
Bill
That's really cool Chris! Its almost like completing a project on its own! But I can't wait to see the rest unfold.Thanks Kim! Its always a good feeling when a subassembly comes together enough to move. And I am toying with writing up a book of plans/build on this project, since it is such an interesting cross of locomotive, traction engine, and bulldozer. There is a fair amount of information out there, but it is scattered among articles, books, and websites - I was not even aware these existed till a couple of months ago, and was instantly enthralled by them. I was not able to visit the museum in Maine for the last run this year, but am planning to go there in the spring - only a 9 1/2 hour drive from here, but worth it!
I'm still in line for those plans! And the book :)
Kim
That is one heck of a cotter pin!!Or a very very small finger...! Always wanted to get one of those giant penny paperweights to put in the photos.
Bill
WOW. Lovely job on the tracks Chris.
Vince
How about a power feed for the Sherline? My idea is to drill and tap the center of the handwheel for an allen cap screw with a 1/4" hex hole. Locktite that into the handwheel, then use a battery powered screwdriver with a hex driver. Just pickup the screwdriver, place it into the allen screw and drive the wheel either way.
I bought a very neat screwdriver to keep on my bench with a countersink in it to debur holes. I found one (Dewalt I think, its yellow and black) that has a gyroscope in it- you place it in the screw and just slightly twist your wrist in the direction you want it to turn- there is no for/rev button to press, just twist your wrist. It works in any direction, pointed straight up, or down or however you need to hold it. It has proven to be very useful.
A power feed is not just easier, it gives a more constant speed and nicer surface finish.
How are you going to finish all those track pieces? I think a short ride in a tumbler would give them a perfect texture and knock off all the sharp corners. They would look a lot like the original castings.
ChrisThanks for the breath holding! It actually went easy, since the gaps let the chips clear so no pecking needed, just needed oil to keep it from overheating. The first couple were a small angle off true, small tweak to the way the jig sat in the vise got it straight. I would drill through a finger section, advance to the next, and start slow to let it effectively center drill a start, then crank through.
Those tracks look great. I held my breath while you were drilling those pin holes and due to that, they came out straight and true. The roller grooves also look good. Your angled approach to the traction bar was an eye opener. It let you raise a bar where you had no material. Good outside the box thinking. By the way, in current terminology, that thing is called a grouser bar or just grouser. It is pronounced as if the "S" were a "Z". I don't know when that became common terminology.
I think that you will be fine leaving the drive lug off of the inside face. Modern crawler tracks are driven by contact with the bushing only with no secondary drive lug. It will also make calculating the sprocket pitch easier
Looking damn good Chris and the tracks are looking on track bud...... :ThumbsUp:
Don
Dang Chris..............with these tracks, you've gone from a wood carver to a metal carver! :lolb:The larger handles are a lot easier on the fingers, with so much time on the mill lately those small wheels and sharp edged handles were giving me blisters. The core of the handles is a steel bar, turned to leave a retaining lip at the end, and threaded to screw into the wheel with a drop of loctite to keep it in place.
The bigger hand wheels came out great! I just added some 2 1/2" 6061 to my next Speedy Metals order. There really is a difference in the feel of 2 1/2" hand wheels vs 2". I like the custom handle as well. Of course the downside is............. now all the plastic handles are going to look like the devil, so you've got to make all new handles! :LittleDevil:
Jim
Hi Chris, very nice. Jigs and fixtures seems to be a must for this job. The result is fantastic.I can't imagine making these parts without the jig, possible but so much time would be needed to position correctly and the repeatability would be very hard to accomplish. With the jig, its easy.
ChrisThat's a great write-up. Neat to see how similar the crane track is too. Its amazing how complex the modern track systems have become. Normally I just see a muddy blob going around at the construction sites! Thanks!
Here is a pretty complete discussion of modern crawler tractor tracks. It is from Dresser Industries but applies to the tracks used on almost all earthmoving equipment. This track type has a chain link structure with track shoes that bolt to the chain and is the type used where traction and travel are a major factor. It is a descendent of the Lombard track but it is one of two branches in crawler track design.
http://www.tractorparts.com/PDFs/undrcarguide.pdf
The other branch, which is used primarily on large cranes, more closely resembles the Lombard style in that the track shoes are pined together with no separate link. This type of track is primarily used to provide a stable, low ground pressure base for a rotating platform. Traction and wear are not a factors because the work site is carefully leveled and dressed and the machine is actually moved slowly, carefully, and rarely.
Here are a couple of pictures of modern crawler crane tracks and you can see how much more closely they resemble the Lombard track. Notice the prominent drive lug on the inner face of the shoe. It provides the drive face as well as the track allignment.
Chris
Here is a pretty complete discussion of modern crawler tractor tracks. It is from Dresser Industries but applies to the tracks used on almost all earthmoving equipment. This track type has a chain link structure with track shoes that bolt to the chain and is the type used where traction and travel are a major factor. It is a descendent of the Lombard track but it is one of two branches in crawler track design.
http://www.tractorparts.com/PDFs/undrcarguide.pdf (http://www.tractorparts.com/PDFs/undrcarguide.pdf)
The other branch, which is used primarily on large cranes, more closely resembles the Lombard style in that the track shoes are pined together with no separate link. This type of track is primarily used to provide a stable, low ground pressure base for a rotating platform. Traction and wear are not a factors because the work site is carefully leveled and dressed and the machine is actually moved slowly, carefully, and rarely.
Here are a couple of pictures of modern crawler crane tracks and you can see how much more closely they resemble the Lombard track. Notice the prominent drive lug on the inner face of the shoe. It provides the drive face as well as the track allignment.
Those tracks looks fantastic !
Tracks look great. You are really moving along. Those rollers are called "bushings" in trackspeak.
The tracks are looking very nice Chris!Mine is the vibratory type, use it mainly for polishing rifle/pistol brass, usually with walnut media or the like. Worth some experiments with these parts, may not get anywhere but fun to try it.
I was going to comment on the tumbler or vibratory bowl (not sure which you have)? There is a wide variety of ceramic media usually in the form of cones or stars; these are used with a surfactant to vibrate around and deburr your parts. If you are using a vibratory bowl the media and parts need to roll; if there is no rolling action the parts will just wear against each other and you will not be happy with the results. I have had mixed results with my small Burr King vibratory bowl using the ceramic media. It is tricky getting the right amount of liquid to achieve the rolling action.
If you have a tumbler I can't offer much insight to how well it will work. I have a friend who used to make Llama pack frames and he band sawed the parts out of 1/2" aluminum plate then threw them into a home made tumbler that used a 55 gallon plastic drum with sand and gravel for the media. The parts were just fine for the intended purpose. you may need to experiment a little to obtain the finish you are after.
Dave
You have probably seen the rolling action with your brass and walnut shell media; this is what you need to see with your steel parts and what ever media you choose to experiment with.No - just used it for the shells so far, don't have any of the rouge stuff, just the plain media.
I have been wanting to try using the walnut shell media that has the red rouge added to it for deburring and polishing tiny brass model engine parts; have you tried this?
Dave
How are you going to finish all those track pieces? I think a short ride in a tumbler would give them a perfect texture and knock off all the sharp corners. They would look a lot like the original castings.
I was wondering about tumbling them to give them that cast look. I have a vibrating tumbler for cleaning pistol/rifle brass, but I don't think the normal walnut shell media would do more than polish them. What works for smoothing parts like these, some sort of ball bearing media? I draw the line at hand sanding each one, and the shop elves just laughed and rolled off the bench!
Would that kind of setup do a good job of deburring too? The ball end mill left small burs every time it passed the edge of the fingers. I have a friend who has a small tabletop sandblasting rig that I can borrow time on. My compressor is too small a volume for it.
How are you going to finish all those track pieces? I think a short ride in a tumbler would give them a perfect texture and knock off all the sharp corners. They would look a lot like the original castings.
I was wondering about tumbling them to give them that cast look. I have a vibrating tumbler for cleaning pistol/rifle brass, but I don't think the normal walnut shell media would do more than polish them. What works for smoothing parts like these, some sort of ball bearing media? I draw the line at hand sanding each one, and the shop elves just laughed and rolled off the bench!
Chris,
How about using a portable sandblaster to give them a cast look: http://www.harborfreight.com/portable-abrasive-blaster-kit-37025.html
I've got a similar one that I've used through the years for larger parts. I'm going to try it on some small parts sometime, but I think it might work good. What kind of steel are you using for the tracks?
Jim
Would that kind of setup do a good job of deburring too? The ball end mill left small burs every time it passed the edge of the fingers. I have a friend who has a small tabletop sandblasting rig that I can borrow time on. My compressor is too small a volume for it.
How are you going to finish all those track pieces? I think a short ride in a tumbler would give them a perfect texture and knock off all the sharp corners. They would look a lot like the original castings.
I was wondering about tumbling them to give them that cast look. I have a vibrating tumbler for cleaning pistol/rifle brass, but I don't think the normal walnut shell media would do more than polish them. What works for smoothing parts like these, some sort of ball bearing media? I draw the line at hand sanding each one, and the shop elves just laughed and rolled off the bench!
Chris,
How about using a portable sandblaster to give them a cast look: http://www.harborfreight.com/portable-abrasive-blaster-kit-37025.html
I've got a similar one that I've used through the years for larger parts. I'm going to try it on some small parts sometime, but I think it might work good. What kind of steel are you using for the tracks?
Jim
The steel parts, including the tracks, on this build will mostly be 303 stainless, a few 304 parts that come out of the plate stock I have.
To do some experiments, I am picking up some ceramic media for the tumbler to see what it does, if anything. If nothing, I can always throw in a shop gnome. Not any of my elves, a buddy has some gnomes that hang around his production shop!
You have just solved one of my problems with the excavator tracks. I will make up one of those tools and do my track pins the same way.Cool! It does take some experimenting to find which size hole gives the best grip. Make sure you file the corners of the holes on the inside faces slightly to keep it from leaving a mark on the pin. Years ago I had made an arrow puller with the same setup, with the holes lined with thin rubber mat, to pull ones that missed the target and went into the wood target holder or a tree.
Tom
There's a lot of work in those tracks, but it looks like you have got it sorted :ThumbsUp: Still following along :wine1:
That looks good Chris, but that is a lot of washers to make :o ;)
Bill
Chris, I think you are right to go with tumbling rather than sandblasting. If you get aggressive enough with the sandblasting to remove burrs and tool marks you will likely be rounding over some sharper edges you want to remain. The tumbling may do a little of that too depending on the media but it takes longer and you can stop the process at any point. I prefer bead blasting for just adding a nice matte finish to metal and not to remove metal. You may well find that the tumbling is enough on its own.
Bill
Quite an improvement in the looks department after tumbling :praise2:Because of this forum I've taken to buying the popcorn kernels in bulk bags - keeps very well in the fridge till needed!
You are on quite a streak here with another great long build - only problem, I'm using way to much :popcorn: because of you ;)
Looking real good Chris! I think the finish looks really good. I like the way you created the center "lug/Grouser" with the ball end mill. It's definitely worth the time spent making good jigs & fixtures. You'll have quite the collection of them when this project is complete.Thanks! There is a collection box of jigs/fixtures/etc that these will join, the finger plate for the tracks should be useful for all sorts of parts - I've seen others here using simaler ones to hold all sorts of odd little bits for machining.
Really nice work! :ThumbsUp:
John
Hi ChrisThey ran about an hour per batch. Looked at them after 10 minutes and a half hour, after an hour they looked good so I stopped it. The parts and ceramic bits were rotating up and down the bowl nicely.
The tracks sure look good after a trip through the bowl. Are you running them with some soap; and for how long?
Dave
Chris, those tracks look great! Although I'm not sure it'll make much difference when they're all mucked up with mud from running around in your backyard! :ROFL:Here it is, a Lyman tumbler, with the ceramic media. Add a handful of track parts, screw down the cover, plug in for an hour, all done.
I'd love to see a picture of your tumbling setup if you get a chance.
Jim
That didn't take long at all! I haven't made a single part all week and you have done a few dozen ... and fiddly wee potlickers as well! Think I'll go back to knitting.Oh, come on, its only 10 dozen so far... And I'd rather do these than knit!
Tom
My mother tried to teach me to knit when I was a kid. Long dark winter nights and only one television channel (on a good clear night). I never did learn. Tried to learn to play cribbage and never did well at that either. Dumb damn kid!!---but---I bet her and I played ten thousand games of crokinole each winter.
Hi ChrisThey ran about an hour per batch. Looked at them after 10 minutes and a half hour, after an hour they looked good so I stopped it. The parts and ceramic bits were rotating up and down the bowl nicely.
The tracks sure look good after a trip through the bowl. Are you running them with some soap; and for how long?
Dave
No soap - what would that do? Like liquid dish soap? I just ran it dry, rinsed the parts off when done to remove the fine particles. When running the brass cases there is polish and brightening solutions that you can add.
Thanks for the info - will look into that for next time I run a batch.Hi ChrisThey ran about an hour per batch. Looked at them after 10 minutes and a half hour, after an hour they looked good so I stopped it. The parts and ceramic bits were rotating up and down the bowl nicely.
The tracks sure look good after a trip through the bowl. Are you running them with some soap; and for how long?
Dave
No soap - what would that do? Like liquid dish soap? I just ran it dry, rinsed the parts off when done to remove the fine particles. When running the brass cases there is polish and brightening solutions that you can add.
Hi Chris
The soap helps flush away the swarf; and in my thinking also keeps the media from loading up; kind of like using a sharpening stone with out any lube. I have a gallon of concentrate that I purchased from Burr-King; I think the advantage of the commercial product are the low foaming properties and rust inhibitors.
When we were kids my sister and I used to play Canasta with my grandmother and great aunt (her twin sister); lots of fun.
Dave
The shop elves got the rest of the rest of the washers rivetted on the other half of the pivot pins, and the other track test assembled again. They sent thier pet CyberElf over with it.
(http://i32.photobucket.com/albums/d35/crueby1/Lombard%20Hauler%20Build/IMG_8637_zpsy4qrqdu4.jpg)
Looking at your post something popped into my head. With the track lops closed isn't it going to be difficult to install them? It seems to me that it's going to be hard to get them around all the bits and bobs in the suspension. Might I suggest leaving the last link open so you can put the model on the tracks and lay the remainder over the top of the suspension and then close the last link.
Just a suggestion
Tony
Traditionally, crawler tracks are installed by driving the machine onto the track, slacking off the tensioner, pulling the ends together at the top, installing the "master" pin and then tensioning the track.
At least that's what Cat tells 'ya and what we always did....
Pete
By Golly Ollie, give that man a cookie! That looks like it will work well Chris.Cookie - yeah! :cheers: (we need a cookie icon!)
Tom
Coming along nicely Chris. I already know more about crawler tracks than I ever did before. Like others, I was always in the "tracks full of mud camp".I'm still learning about tracks, lot more to them than I ever knew!
What CAD software are you using?
Jim
Great idea to do the test wheel in wood Chris, looks like you are very close to the final design though...very nice!!It worked out well, still need to do some research on the photos to figure out how long to make the axles front and rear. The rear ones get a drive chain sprocket on the inside ends. The axles don't go all the way across, there is a central axle that the track assemblies pivot on. I wasn't sure about the pivoting till I saw a video of the real one going over a bump.
Bill
Chris, I think 304 is the "dumping ground " for stainless alloy. If you think it drilled terrible, try turning a piece :hellno:. We used a lot of 304 in the paper mills for piping and you could easily see the difference between it and 316 just by the weld puddle when TIG welding.I have used a lot of 303, not sure about 316. There are so many alloys these days, which are good for machinability with home tools? By that I mean no flood cooling, exotic tools.
Cletus
Nice progress Chris, so how is the stainless cutting on the lathe?Hi Bill,
Bill
Those parts just keep on coming.....Geeez Dog you putting us to shame but some damn fine work..... :ThumbsUp:Thanks Don! Pass the biscuits! Voof!
:popcorn:
Don
crueby:
The tracks can be a real bear. When I built my wooden excavator models I always started with the tracks.
about 30 man-hours and 500 parts later I'd have a set of tracks. Then the rest of the build seemed like it was all downhill.
For what it's worth, a few weeks ago I started researching the Phoenix Centiped steam truck/locomotive. I THINK that they built a prototype but I'm not real sure. The only reference that I have been able to find to the Centiped is an article in the January 7, 1922 "American Lumberman" magazine. I know that the Phoenix used a different track arrangement than the Lombard log hauler uses, but this shows a track that sets it apart from any other Phoenix log hauler.
Your tracks are looking good, keep up the good work and remember that it's all downhill from here.
Don
Those are looking great Chris. Obviously a lot of work goes into each one, but your seem to have the routine down now. Well done.
Bill
They are looking good, Chris :ThumbsUp:Was way faster, easier and cheaper! Now that I know the setup, I can assembly line all 4 parts without worrying if it will fit.
I really liked your proof of concept wooden sprocket... way easier than junking another piece of stock.
Filed for future reference.
Cheers, Joe
That looks amazing Chris!! Glad you got the post in.
Bill
Good luck with the snow Chris, hope you don't lose power. Losing the forum and power in the same weekend...the shop gnomes must be up to something sinister!!!
Bill
Looks good Chris. :ThumbsUp: You've got this part of the build coming your way.Thanks - getting the tracks and sprockets to mesh is a major step, and something I have never done before. Closest was a small sprocket for a chain, and that took a number of experiments to get something that worked. Next big challenge on the build will be when I get to the roller chains and the drive chains. Got some ideas on mass producing those parts, will see how many of the ideas fall in the shop vac!
In order to taper the teeth, did you angle the headstock slightly? Can't tell from the picture.
Jim
Hi Chris,
Looking good, think I'll start growing :popcorn:, at the rate of your updates going to buy it takes to long & it takes too long to catch up! :lolb:
Cheers Kerrin
Chris, I was going to comment last night but about the time I typed it up the access went down again. Those sprockets look wonderful. You are making it all look too easy though ;)I would not have seen the reply last night anyway, that storm moved in, deep lake effect snow off Lake Ontario with high winds, and power went out for a couple hours. Nice thing about retirement is not having to venture out on first snowfall roads, lots of accidents this morning. Traffic to living room chair was light!
Bill
What an excellent job! Chris, this is going to be one magnificent model and the speed that you are going with it, there should be steam by Christmas :lolb:Well, this Christmas it will be steam over the hot chocolate, next year it should be pulling the tree out of the woods!
Cheers
Tom
What an excellent job! Chris, this is going to be one magnificent model and the speed that you are going with it, there should be steam by Christmas :lolb:Well, this Christmas it will be steam over the hot chocolate, next year it should be pulling the tree out of the woods!
Cheers
Tom
Its amazing how fast Lombard was able to build a couple prototypes and be in production on the real thing. It will take me a bit longer!What an excellent job! Chris, this is going to be one magnificent model and the speed that you are going with it, there should be steam by Christmas :lolb:Well, this Christmas it will be steam over the hot chocolate, next year it should be pulling the tree out of the woods!
Cheers
Tom
Okay, we will let you off for this Christmas ... I guess there are still a few parts to be made.
Tom
WOW! Those sprockets look great Chris! Nice work! :ThumbsUp:When I have the rest of the corners rounded on the spokes (would have been today, but was out doing family stuff all day), I want to make the axles for the sprockets (that will be easy), then will start on the big plates that the track assembly is all held by. In the real thing they were big castings, mine will be built up and silver soldered together from smaller plates. I've been digging through the photos of the real one to figure it all out, and need to model it up in Fusion360. The shapes are pretty straightforward so that should be easy. The plates hold the bearings for the sprocket axles, and include a sliding tensioner adjustment, as well as guides for the roller chain at the bottom inside edge of the tracks. I am planning on building the whole thing from the ground up, so will finish the track assembly (including the roller chain), then the front skis, then on to the drive chains and differential assembly. I'm having a ball with this build so far!
What parts will be next?
John
Great progress Chris. :ThumbsUp:A clock that hauls!
That last picture looks like some kind of fancy pendulum for a clock. :Lol: You'd definitely be the first one on your block to have a clock like that! You can tell that I've been reading up on clocks lately!
Jim
I have done some very large parts(like about twice as big as the sprocket) and they work fine.Good to know - I will give the sprockets a run in the tumbler as soon as I finish the rounding of the spokes. Thanks!
Jaysus Cletus--Your the only guy on the forum that likes rust!!!
That is a real great result Chris. I see you are getting used to Fusion 360.Its a great software package, a few things I wish they could add, but am having great fun with it. Having done some 3d animation work in the past helps with the concepts.
Vince
The sprockets came out nice Chris. Tumbling took the edge off, but there's still a nice contrast with the tracks.
The 3d drawing really shows how this is all going to look when completed.
That's a great picture of the real thing. I'm sure they're a lot bigger in real life, but the cotter pins sure look delicate, considering the beating they take.
Jim
Chris, "track frames" is the common term in dozer circles.Thanks! Adding to my vocabulary.
Hi Chris. Great work so far and following with interest. If you find your tracks slipping in the mud, you could always try this idea seen in Norway on a small Ransomes MG6 crawler tractor!I love it! Lets see, four horseshoes per horsepower in the engine... :ROFL:
Regards
Ray
Glad you were able to post an update Chris. Still checking in and following along as I am able to get onto the forum. It's been pretty good today so far, just the occasional glitch. I think the sprockets look just fine after tumbling too!! Still plenty of contrast in my opinion.
Bill
Hi Chris, I am following along quietly, great show.
Great work Chris! I'm still following along! :popcorn:
That is, when the forum lets me in... :'(
Kim
Chris---You are a magician. I love the stuff you are doing. Looking at the tracks fully assembled has dredged up an old memory. When I was a young kid, I had a favourite uncle, my Uncle Jimmy, who eventually would be the one to teach me to drink whiskey and play the fiddle---but I digress----I was at my Grandparents house, and my uncle had the timing chain off some old car he had torn apart. He had cleaned all of the oil and dirt off it and was letting me play with it, driving it around the kitchen table. I was absolutely entranced!!I was kind of the same way, loved to take apart things and see how they were made, just loved seeing all the finely made metal parts inside things. Just not the same with plastic these days. I still love old machines and instruments, have a small collection of antique navigation instruments, sextants, octants, etc, mainly from the earlier wood and brass days. One later one is out of a B-17 bomber, I opened it up once to see the inside, it is a marvel of super tight tolerance gears and levers. Just amazing stuff.
I had never before seen such wonderful mechanical perfection. I remember asking if he could build me a toy bulldozer with timing chains for tracks, but he said that no, he couldn’t do that because he wouldn’t be able to make the sprockets for it.
Uncle Jimmy has been gone now for many, many years, and that memory is probably more than 60 years old now.---Brian
Good progress Chris. I'm still trying to get my head wrapped around the size of the full scale Lombard. Could you tell me what the height is from the bottom track to the top track where it goes around one of the sprockets?
After going back and forth.............and forth and back..............I finally got smart and printed out the picture, from the last page, of the side view of the full size tracks and your 3D rendering. Way better! It's much easier to see where the parts fit into the picture.........literally! :)
Jim
Hmmmm ... Santa may want to use those tracks on his sleigh ... just sayin.
What does he have in his shop that you don't ... besides friendly and hard working elves?Elves are good to have around your shop. Gnomes, on the other hand, are malicious little buggers!!!----
That's why its so important to make the elves favorite cookies, put out little glasses of milk, and make them comfy chairs...What does he have in his shop that you don't ... besides friendly and hard working elves?Elves are good to have around your shop. Gnomes, on the other hand, are malicious little buggers!!!----
Chris I am just catching up on your build and buddy that is awesome........ :praise2:Thanks Don!
Don
And good Elves are hard to find this time of year with so many of them working up North for the season. Really have to bribe them a bit to keep them around.Hint. They love mint chocolate chip cookies. Trust me on this one.
Gail in NM
Chris, the track frames are looking great. Do you always get things right on the first try? That could be one of the reasons that you make such good progress but doesn't that leave your scrap box a little empty? Mine on the other hand is well stocked with "not quites."Oh no, my scrap boxES are definitely loaded. Some get reused on smaller parts, some as ballast in the rc boats. I mafe half a dozen extra track pads, needed them all. So far no goofs on the track frames, but not done yet!
But seriously, I have been looking at the plans and photos of the track assemblies and I am not able to confirm or rule out the existence of any struts, braces, webs, or connection between the two sides of the track frames. The boss that encloses center pivot shaft that is bolted to the top of both sides seems to be the only solid connection. The only other connections are the sprocket shafts. Is that the way that you see it as well, or am I looking at this all wrong? It seems odd to me because the track frames on modern dozers are a one piece casting with webs between the two sides. I don't really wear belts and suspenders at the same time but it seems to me that the frames could use some stiffening.
Y'all stand by, he's getting ready to "flux his muscles" :lolb: :lolb:
Cletus
Perhaps he has been sniffing the "Special" BBQ sauce again ...Ah, yes, clear sauce, comes in a mason jar...
Chris, if you don't mind I'd like to share this with your faithful followers, perhaps it will help with their shop progress :Not bad, but I think mine would be better, I'll have to dig out the recipe and see if the elves will let me post it. Brown sugar, dark chocolate chips, and mint baking emulsion makes a big difference. The elves can tell!
http://www.bettycrocker.com/recipes/mint-chocolate-chip-cookies/22bebeda-ea36-441a-9909-ae78409d6da6.
Cletus
Chris, if you don't mind I'd like to share this with your faithful followers, perhaps it will help with their shop progress :Not bad, but I think mine would be better, I'll have to dig out the recipe and see if the elves will let me post it. Brown sugar, dark chocolate chips, and mint baking emulsion makes a big difference. The elves can tell!
http://www.bettycrocker.com/recipes/mint-chocolate-chip-cookies/22bebeda-ea36-441a-9909-ae78409d6da6 (http://www.bettycrocker.com/recipes/mint-chocolate-chip-cookies/22bebeda-ea36-441a-9909-ae78409d6da6).
Cletus
Chris, these are really starting to take shape just as the track did. What a joy to follow along!!Thanks Bill!
Bill
:popcorn:
Looking great Chris!!!
john
Chris, those last pictures really help a lot seeing how all this will work together. Really nice!!
Bill
As long as you wasn't wearing bib overalls and a bandanna around your neck while making those sounds :lolb: Work looks great.Nope, not wearing that... As far as you know anyway...! Um, err... :ROFL:
Cletus
Looking good. I'm following along with my drawing and pictures!Will do, what I can - can't take pics during the soldering itself (torch is hard to hold in my teeth) but will try and get some during the prep/cleanup. I learned iit from Kozo's book on the New Shay. Main things are a close fit of the parts (still want just a small gap for the solder to flow into), clean parts well, apply flux, I use the wire form of the silver solder so cut a small length and put at the joint, heat with torch from other side of the parts (not direct flame on the flux/solder side) till the flux melts then the solder melts into the joint (if flux all dries up and gone before the solder melts then you need a bigger torch nozzle), let it cool, soak in pickle solution (not real pickles!, mild acid) to loosen the crusted flux, then rinse and wire brush clean. If parts don't fall apart then you did good. I use a Seivert torch, which has a variety of tip sizes for different size parts (full copper boiler needs a LOT of heat, small parts use small nozzle), which hooks up to a 20 pound propane grill tank with a regulator that screws into the tank. Works very well.
If you have the time, when you do the soldering could you expand on that process? It still seems a little like "Black Art" to me! :shrug:
Jim
Looking good. I'm following along with my drawing and pictures!Will do, what I can - can't take pics during the soldering itself (torch is hard to hold in my teeth) but will try and get some during the prep/cleanup. I learned iit from Kozo's book on the New Shay. Main things are a close fit of the parts (still want just a small gap for the solder to flow into), clean parts well, apply flux, I use the wire form of the silver solder so cut a small length and put at the joint, heat with torch from other side of the parts (not direct flame on the flux/solder side) till the flux melts then the solder melts into the joint (if flux all dries up and gone before the solder melts then you need a bigger torch nozzle), let it cool, soak in pickle solution (not real pickles!, mild acid) to loosen the crusted flux, then rinse and wire brush clean. If parts don't fall apart then you did good. I use a Seivert torch, which has a variety of tip sizes for different size parts (full copper boiler needs a LOT of heat, small parts use small nozzle), which hooks up to a 20 pound propane grill tank with a regulator that screws into the tank. Works very well.
If you have the time, when you do the soldering could you expand on that process? It still seems a little like "Black Art" to me! :shrug:
Jim
You can get the Kozo books from the publisher, Village Press, at list price. Lots of sellers on Amazon charge more. His New Shay has the most info, covers more techniques than the first Shay book. Even if you don't build the loco, you can get a lot of information.Looking good. I'm following along with my drawing and pictures!Will do, what I can - can't take pics during the soldering itself (torch is hard to hold in my teeth) but will try and get some during the prep/cleanup. I learned iit from Kozo's book on the New Shay. Main things are a close fit of the parts (still want just a small gap for the solder to flow into), clean parts well, apply flux, I use the wire form of the silver solder so cut a small length and put at the joint, heat with torch from other side of the parts (not direct flame on the flux/solder side) till the flux melts then the solder melts into the joint (if flux all dries up and gone before the solder melts then you need a bigger torch nozzle), let it cool, soak in pickle solution (not real pickles!, mild acid) to loosen the crusted flux, then rinse and wire brush clean. If parts don't fall apart then you did good. I use a Seivert torch, which has a variety of tip sizes for different size parts (full copper boiler needs a LOT of heat, small parts use small nozzle), which hooks up to a 20 pound propane grill tank with a regulator that screws into the tank. Works very well.
If you have the time, when you do the soldering could you expand on that process? It still seems a little like "Black Art" to me! :shrug:
Jim
Thanks Chris. You've covered a lot of bases with this post. I've had Kozo's book on my Amazon Wishlist for some time now..........guess I better get it ordered.
Jim
OK!! Too late tonight, but tomorrow is certainly cookie day! I don't think we've ever made a mint chocolate chip cookie....So, how did the shop gnomes like the cookies? :LickLips:
Cletus.... you're not in that eastern part of the state that's burning are you? God help those folks....
Pete
OK!! Too late tonight, but tomorrow is certainly cookie day! I don't think we've ever made a mint chocolate chip cookie....So, how did the shop gnomes like the cookies? :LickLips:
Cletus.... you're not in that eastern part of the state that's burning are you? God help those folks....
Pete
If you can find it, get the baking emulsion mint, the regular mint extract in alcohol bakes off and leaves little flavor.OK!! Too late tonight, but tomorrow is certainly cookie day! I don't think we've ever made a mint chocolate chip cookie....So, how did the shop gnomes like the cookies? :LickLips:
Cletus.... you're not in that eastern part of the state that's burning are you? God help those folks....
Pete
:embarassed: Discovered we didn't have any mint in the house. Will get some tomorrow when we go to the store. Today we baked a "Browned Butter" cake... ^-^
Pete
Well, the shop gnomes, and the elves, around here sure don't lose any weight this time of year! :lolb:
Pete
Put your parts in a pan of water and bring it to a full boil; the flux come right off. I can see the advantages of a pickle if you were going to do more soldering on a copper or brass part but so far the boiling water has worked just fine for me.I'll give that a try on then next parts I solder, see how it compares. Thanks!
Your parts are looking great BTW.
Dave
I've found that soaking steel in water just make rust, especially in the cracks you want the filler to enter. Boiling water is much faster, much more complete and, if you have your air hose handy, dries almost instantly. Blowing the water out of the cracks is the way to do it. The residual heat makes for a complete dry.In this case, 303 won't rust like that, but using very hot water is great on lots of stuff, does a great job on cleaning off pistol actions, like you say it pretty much dries itself.
Pete
Well, shoot. I completely forgot that this was stainless.... :embarassed:
Forgive me sire!
Pete
Impressive ChrisThanks Bruce!
:ThumbsUp:
Bruce
QuoteNice idea. Easy enough to run in a countersink. The slots could be filled with some jb weld to make them completely flush. Thanks!!
The bolt heads are just out of the way of the roller chain, but I am planning to mill them thinner anyway and angle the heads so the chains won't have a tendancy to catch on them.
If they can catch, they will catch. Why don't you use counter sunk flat head screws and eliminate the possibility? They are completely hidden from view.
I am hearing engine chuffing and track clanking and rattling sounds in my mind as I view these pics. Since the driver was in the front and the engineer in the back, many feet away, there was like more than a few choice words loosed as well.Thanks Tom!
Excellent job so far Chris.
Tom
Hi Chris,Thanks! Things have been coming together nicely lately. I want to get the bearings on for the sprockets and the center pivot axle to tie it all together before starting on the roller chains. The chains will take a while, given the number of parts, but I have some ideas on a way to production line tjem with some more jigs and fixtures. Hope they work out.
Well after 2 days of not getting my fix, :killcomputer: you have been a busy boy! The tracks are coming on nicely!
Right off to the shop, :popcorn: required! It's not growing fast enuff to keep up!
Cheers Kerrin
Looking good Chris. I'm glad I printed out the pics you posted of the track mechanism and the drawing you made. Helps me to keep track of what is going on. :)Yeah, while cutting down the middle I could see the kerf opening up. I have seen it on brass bar lots of times, which is why I now always do a stress relief pass in the oven on brass bar that I will be cutting down the middle, or even just milling off on one side. For brass its easy, 500f for an hour in the oven (degreased first!) Does the job. For the 303 though, I have read that the temperature required is much higher than a household oven can do. Fortunately in this case there was enough material to mill it straight again. For turning on the lathe its no issue since you are taking evenly from all sides.
I'm amazed at how much your material moved when you split it. I'd of believed it for wood (based on experience), but never thought about metal moving that much!
Jim
Bud you just keep chewing up the metal and making art with it. Your are sure on a roll Dog and still with you...... :praise2:Nice having you along for the ride!
Don
I'm riding with Don, I'm drinking and he's driving :lolb: :lolb:. Man, that is looking great. I just now tried to count the individual track segments; as the guy at the drive thru Chinese restaurant says everytime I order beef chow mein: "Lotta cabbage" , lotta pieces :cheers:. I know you want to paint it and having it looking "as delivered" new, but, I bet Jerry and I would like to see you just rub a little red clay on what you have :facepalm: :shrug: :stir:.
Cletus
I don't mind a little paint, but we only had one color in our shops and that was yella. I know Chris isn't going that way so maybe you're right. A little red dog packed in the rollers would look about right.Yella? I'd do more than yell at anyone who got that near this model!! Ick!
I'll bet Mr. Lombard would have loved to have you as an employee! Talk about output! And you have been know to work for cookies as well :lolb:
Tom
Hi Chris,
That's looking soooo COOL, the nut size makes a real difference!
As a thought for your rollers, have you looked to see if you can can drive chain, the rollers are hardened as are the pins? A friend of my some years ago had the need for some hardened short tube or roller, can't remember which...... :old: , duplex or triplex may give you the size required. Just grind one end off the pins & Bob's your auntie !
Oh on the rabbit front, you might have to gear her up a notch or two!
Cheers Kerrin
It looks great! But you may have a problem with the roller chain guide, it looks to be to long in the front.Its in the right spot, the track is sitting up high since the chain is not there. The rollers are only about 3/16, and you are seeing the overhang from the guide, so the track will be about 1/8" lower. When holding it up it all lines up right. And yes, made me look!
Hi Chris,No sweat. And I am not sure if disassembling a riveted chain would be easier than making one from scratch! Besides, this way I can say I made it all. Except for the parts I didn't, like pressure gauge, safety valve, fuel tank...
That makes all the right noises!
On the chain front, sorry didn't make it clear, was just suggesting the brought chain as a source of supply of the rollers & potentially the pins. Remove them from the brought stuff & make up your own side links. But I guess you still end up in the same boat(err in your case submarine) that the rollers have to be the right size!
Cheers Kerrin
It all looks amazing Chris. I haven't looked in a day or two and you are making some fast progress!! Well done!!Thank you Bill! Its a big relief that it all moves smoothly after all that work.
Bill
Chris looking close at your photo it looks like a spring within a spring and wound opposite.
Don
Chris - That is great detective work. Your drawing and description makes the mechanism clear and easy to follow. Is there something that keeps the springs in position such as a rod through the center. Is there some kind of seat on the frame where it contacts the spring? I don't see anything in the parts list that would serve the purpose.Yes, there is a small cone guide at the ends of the springs to keep them centered. In the parts list it is item 140 on cut nbr 6, where it also shows the nested springs.
Got it. It just doesn't look like a cone on the parts list. So how does it work, one at the top bolted to the frame and one at the bottom bolted to the spring box?Exactly. Wide end bolted to the plate, small end into the end coil of the spring. Keeps the spring from sliding out of position. The brace across the bottom of the bracket that angles up to the main frame does two things, keeps the axle block from being able to drop out of the bracket, and keeps the bracket from twisting.
Good detective work there "Inspector Crueby"! :ThumbsUp: You must have watched a lot of episodes of "Columbo".Yup! And there's always "one more thing!" But no cigars.
Jim
Chris---you have the most exciting build going on the whole internet right now.---Brian
Look at that ... I go away for a couple of days to work on my tug boat and when I get back I don't recognize the place! I have to agree with Mr Rupnow ... This is the most refreshing build I have seen in a long time. Some of the v12's and v8's are pretty special, but this is going to be just plan fantastic :cheers: Not only the building of it, but every step is detailed and every question answered ... and recipes are included :cartwheel: .
My hat is off to you.
Tom
After failing to find Mint Essence anywhere locally, we had to order it from the maker back east...
Baked the cookies yesterday and they are just wonderful!! We've never used that essence, rather than extract, before and it makes all the difference in the world.
This elf has a new favorite chocolate chip cookie!! :whoohoo: :cartwheel:
Thanks Chris!
Pete
I had a good friend of mine in Colorado send me some of those essence emulsions last week. I have had a strong desire for some chocolate chip mint cookies ever since and the shop time just crawls by, but, the sunsets sure are pretty, just saying :lolb: :mischief: :naughty: :lolb:Sounds more like he sent you a bottle of mint julep! :DrinkPint:
Cletus
Great Project Chris! It's a real joy to follow along. :popcorn:Thanks! Having a lot of fun building it, at least till I get to the drive and roller chains!
Thanks for sharing. :ThumbsUp: :ThumbsUp: :ThumbsUp:
You're really moving along here... but the ride is very smooth! Nice!I bet the ride on the hauler gets a bit bumpier!
Pete
Yeah, I saw the weather in Rochester Mr. Benny :lolb: . Ain't much else to do but eat cookies and make parts :cheers:
Cletus
Dog that is cooler then a crawfish hitting a pot of hot water.......I........like........ :Love:
Don
I mainly read this thread to learn more of Don's pithy expressions. ;D :lolb:
Actually it's a great build even without them. Still trying to figure out what role the roller chain plays.
OK, roller chain makes perfect sense.
Now how does it steer? Can one track be disconnected from the other?
Still following along quietly but in amazement Chris!! Don't know what else to say.
Bill
Dang...........that's a rather "busy" part!Its got to be the most complicated bracket I've ever made! If it was bigger I'd probably have made it from pieces, but at this size it was easier to carve it from solid. I'm sure the original was a cast part.
It's been really interesting to see how you've taken the original drawings and figured out how to use bar stock to make the parts.
Jim
Hi Chris,A while back I bookmarked some filing machine builds, someday will make one... Not sure where I'd put it, shop is pretty full already!
Its looking like a filing machine is needed in your Xmas Stocking!
Love what you are doing! Oh found a substitute for :popcorn:.... Xmas mince pies! (Followed by a gym sub :lolb:)
Cheers Kerrin
I would have suggested drive screws as an alternative to rivets, with solder as the primary attachment.This is setting the stage for the rest of the boiler/etc brackets, which are rivets in a lot of places on the original. The boiler and water tank will have many many of them.
Another nice step forward Chris. :ThumbsUp:Its a dremel belt/disc sander I picked up years ago, takes 1" belts and sticky back 5" discs. I like the Sandvik/Klingspor belts and discs. Very handy unit for quick rounding of corners. The corners on the brackets took less time than to take the picture, just a quick swipe while turning the part on the table. Much quicker than setting up the rotab would have been, and these are just decorative edges so absolute precision is not an issue. I use same sander for bevelling rudders and fins on the subs, etc.
I see a picture of your belt sander. What I can see of it looks nice. What kind is it?
Jim
Your page on the Lombard hauler construction was just pointed out to me. I must say a challenging job and beautiful construction. If you didn't know, the Western Development Museum in Saskatoon, Saskatchewan has a full size one which they run from time to time. The model they have has a vertical engine.The vertical engine version was made by a company called Phoenix that licensed the patent for the tracks from Lombard. They had a twin cylinder engine on each side, rather than the single horizontal one per side than tne Lombard, but the displacement was less per cylinder, so the net power was simaler. They also used a shaft drive vs the chain drive. Other than that, very close to same machine. Both are fascinating machines.
Did you find the chain links you were looking for? I'm not sure if they are made in the size your looking for but they are available as "half links" for bicycle chain and larger chain.
Lots more progress Chris, I think you got that warp drive thingy going again. Either that or the shop elves are putting something in the cookies :lolb: Seriously nice work though!!
Bill
Is this any help?What I've been looking for is 303 in the thinner sizes (like 1/16) in flat strip stock rather than sheet stock, since I don't have a good way to cut or shear off even strips. In lieu of that, have been using tool steel strips, which I have been able to find. Thanks for the pointer though!
https://concordsheetmetal.com/materials/stainless-steel/?gclid=CLO0vsmThNECFRmewAodOyADdw
The track roller chains are unique in that the cross pin has a roller that is larger than the hieght of the side plates, and also are shaped like the half link chains. At this point I am assuming that I will need to make them, but if you can point me to a source for smaller sizes that would be great. So far I have found them only in acetal plastic, which is not durable enough.
Then there are the drive chains, at least only two of them....
The track roller chains are unique in that the cross pin has a roller that is larger than the hieght of the side plates, and also are shaped like the half link chains. At this point I am assuming that I will need to make them, but if you can point me to a source for smaller sizes that would be great. So far I have found them only in acetal plastic, which is not durable enough.
Lets see..........it looks like 40 rollers per chain and 4 chains...........thats only 160 rollers to knock out! Hopefully it's of a diameter that you can buy stock for. Then there's the side plates. The bright side is that making those chains should be a small project compared to the tracks! Christmas is coming, so that might give you some leverage with the shop elves! :Lol:
Jim
The vertical engine version was made by a company called Phoenix that licensed the patent for the tracks from Lombard. They had a twin cylinder engine on each side, rather than the single horizontal one per side than tne Lombard, but the displacement was less per cylinder, so the net power was simaler. They also used a shaft drive vs the chain drive. Other than that, very close to same machine. Both are fascinating machines.
The half links are sold as individual parts. They are sometimes called "offset links". Here is one source <https://www.thebigbearingstore.com/offset-links/>. Scroll down to the #35 and #25 size. Another link <http://www.andymark.com/Roller-Chain-25-Series-p/am-0682.htm>. Any place that sells the chain should have the half links. I think the chain and links are available in SS as well.Yeah - that was all I could find in the 25 series was the individual half links - at those prices though, the chains I would need would cost a bundle to make up, so I think I will stay on the make-em-myself path. The larger 1/2" pitch chains like on bikes is available a number of places all made up in full chains, will keep that in mind for future projects. Thanks for the look!
Wish I could help you on the rollers but I suspect your right that you will have to make them.
I done ate 6 bags of hog cracklings and 6 links of boudin and damn Dog you just keep going like a alligator is hot on ass. Your putting this old coonass to shame son with all that speedy work........ :ThumbsUp:
Don
Darn Don, if you had red beans and rice with the boudin he might could use you as the torch on the next soldering op, just saying :lolb: . Chris, if you aren't familiar, Google boudin and yes they (and I ) eat it :lolb: :lolb:
Cletus
Ha, I slipped in the back kitchen and fried me some beer battered Pollock for lunch :lolb:
Cletus
Ha, I slipped in the back kitchen and fried me some beer battered Pollock for lunch :lolb:I guess it's somewhat like a pogie fish except pogie are very oily. We eat it but also make fertilizer and perfume with it. They are High in protein.
Cletus
Ha, I slipped in the back kitchen and fried me some beer battered Pollock for lunch :lolb:I guess it's somewhat like a pogie fish except pogie are very oily. We eat it but also make fertilizer and perfume with it. They are High in protein.
Cletus
Don
Ha, I slipped in the back kitchen and fried me some beer battered Pollock for lunch :lolb:I guess it's somewhat like a pogie fish except pogie are very oily. We eat it but also make fertilizer and perfume with it. They are High in protein.
Cletus
Don
Guess I'm picky too, use Pollock for the bait fish it is! :disappointed: At least the stuff the mass packagers use. My favorite is Haddock, fresh off the dock up in Maine.... Mmmmmmmm.....!
That's all really nice Chris, but what does that have to do with cooking and eating white fish? :Lol:
Oh wait..........this is the machining channel.............not the food channel................my bad! :lolb:
Anyway, the parts, or parts within a part look great.
Jim
:mischief:That's all really nice Chris, but what does that have to do with cooking and eating white fish? :Lol:
Oh wait..........this is the machining channel.............not the food channel................my bad! :lolb:
Anyway, the parts, or parts within a part look great.
Jim
Thanks Zee... I mean Jim! :lolb:
It's all your fault Chris.Blame gleefully accepted!! (Snicker)
This great thread inspired me to start building a long desired IC powered crawler tractor. I borrowed a few of your elves, bribed them with milk and chocolate chip cookies, and turned them loose on the CAD system. Must have fed them too many cookies. They got fat and lazy and took a long winters nap. So, I had to start the design myself with only the shop dog for assistance.
Thanks for the boot in the back side with this great tread.
Tractor Thread starts at:
http://www.modelenginemaker.com/index.php?topic=6737.new#new
Gail in NM
Now, just add a shear and hydraulic actuator then come back in the morning and they'll all be bent, cut and ready!!Sounds like a Mythbusters build! Shears, hydraulic pump, C4, blast shields...
:noidea:
Pete
:ThumbsUp:
Thanks for posting the findings Chris. A friend of my who is a gun collector has mentioned trying some of these....I've mentioned your build (& my excitement), about building model engines, He's getting closer. :slap: As always, fantastic build, :embarassed: I was going to mention to you about some of the track parts losing a little paint earlier from playing with them too much..but, how could you not? I love it all.
I hope the shop elves treated you well for Christmas, didn't eat too many cookies, & had visions of Lombard haulers dancing in your head.
Looking forward to the book. :stir:
John
Well, big correction on the bluing post!
I was curious if the bluing chemicals would work for touching up the scratches in the paint on the stainless parts without messing up the surrounding paint, and was surprised to see absolutely nothing happening. Anywhere. Then dabbed some on the the test piece from earlier, nice reaction. Then pulled some fresh bar, still has the 303 stainless label on it, and found the chemicals might have well been water for all the nothing they did. Turns out the test piece I tried must have been a chunk of CRS or maybe some W1 steel. Near as I can find out, cold bluing on stainless is limited to certain alloys, 303 not being one of them.
So, the test I showed is fine for other alloys, not for stainless. Whoops!! :facepalm: :noidea:
Well, so much for the 'blues'! I've gone back to experimenting with the fixtures/parts for the roller chains, making a set, checking fit, tweaking sizes in the plans, repeating....
More details in a few days when I get the process sorted out....
Thanks Jim, I particularly liked the ones where they were out in the snow. Can't wait to get up there and see it running in person.Well, so much for the 'blues'! I've gone back to experimenting with the fixtures/parts for the roller chains, making a set, checking fit, tweaking sizes in the plans, repeating....
More details in a few days when I get the process sorted out....
I'm looking forward to the next installment, Chris.
Also, I've been meaning to mention that I really enjoyed the Lombard videos you posted. Having followed along on your track building project, it was neat to see them working in real life.
Jim
Awesome work Chris your just one little busy beaver, you don't come up for air. I have that Micromark chop saw and very disappointed with it. No power when cutting metal parts and takes forever. It's great for the real small stuff but .5" or more sucks.
Don
Looking great Chris.
Little parts are sluch fun. Reminds me of a cartoon from years ago that shows several men crawling aroundon the floor of the office of Micro Parts, Inc. Caption read "We dropped last weeks production".
Gail in NM
Can you reverse the jaws on the newer chuck and see if it is OK on larger stock? If so use it for larger diameter stock and use the older one for smaller.
Gail in NM
Those links really look the part Chris!! Your patience and persistence are to be admired as your results plainly show!!Thanks Bill, with the jigs it looks like it will be quicker to make than the tracks were, there are a couple dozen more parts but they are lots simpler.
Bill
:popcorn: :popcorn:
Looking good Chris!
Wonder if my rivet squeezzer would work on those pins, wouldnt need the mod ive done.
The standard head with the right bits would probably work
Cheers Kerrin
Chris,
I'm truly enjoying this build. Your fixture work is extremely informative and I really like the bending jig.
This is going to be an amazing machine.
gbritnell
Very very nice. Really enjoying following your build! :ThumbsUp:
Hi Chris,Mine will be much easier, being brass rivets. 16 tons ought to form yours just fine!
Yep can see how that would happen! Haven't used mine in anger yet, always seems to be something that pops to the top of the list. Made it to close 3/16 steel rivets for the loco frames, its a 16 ton wire crimper so its got enuff drive its just the "C" arms that may not hold up! Shouldn't be a problem on the 3/64 ones for the tanks, even though they are stainless!
Cheers Kerrin
Very nice Chris. I really love seeing the jigs and fixtures you make to help with your mass production. You'll have these chains done soon!
Will the drive chains be the same? Or will the rollers be smaller for those?
Kim
Even starting the New Year with a bang! Damn Dog you don't come up for air do you? Some amazing fixture work and craftsmanship Dog.
:drinking-41:
Don
Chris--I can fully appreciate how much work there is in 3D modeling all of those connected chain links. I just found out about 2 months ago that my Solidworks 3D software now has the capability to pattern chain-links around a sketched line. Of course, you have to do the math and have the segments of sketched line all add up to a length divisible by the chain pitch. It is a nifty piece of software, but not something I would probably use on normal "for pay" jobs. I love the work you are doing, and check every day to see your progress.---BrianThanks Brian!
.... can edit an earlier step with different parameters and it automatically updates all the later operations and dependant drawings. Very cool.
Thanks!.... can edit an earlier step with different parameters and it automatically updates all the later operations and dependant drawings. Very cool.
The video/audio editing world calls this NLE, or non-linear editing.
I wouldn't touch a 3D package that did't have this, I'm not aware of any that don't.
Really ejoying following your build, great stuff (and educational!)
Every time you add more pieces Chris, it just looks more and more amazing. Awesome!!Thanks Bill, I got the chain making process down pat now, just a matter of turning the crank, as it were. The first 4 links are going to get repinned now that the dimensions are worked out, the rest are moving nicely. Probably have one full chain set every two or three days now.
Bill
That came out great Chris. :ThumbsUp:Yup - and the chain is held from sliding off horizontally both by the grooves in the inside of the track plates, by the back wall of the frame, and by the lip of the lower track frame. It just sags down against the top of the box beam (that is what I call it anyway).
I couldn't remember what supports the top run of the chain, so went back to page 30 and saw that it can just sag down and run along on the top of the longitudinal frame (whatever you call it).
Jim
Chris, that roller chain came out really well.
Vince
Hi Chris, a pleasure to watch. Some day this model will make the same drving noise like the real one. A monster jangling with the chains.All sorts of noises, steam hissing, chain jangling, tracks clanking, whistle blowing.... Should be fun!
Geeeez no master link...... :lolb: Some nice work as usual Chris.... :ThumbsUp:
Don
The chains are great Chris. And the best part is that you are doing them and not me.
Gail in NM
Man Chris, that is looking really good. Lots of little detail in every one of those.
You know, they might make good bracelets too - you could sell them at the craft fair! :Jester:
Kim
Nice looking part Chris.Probably fabricated, it would take a big chunk of metal (little bigger than 2"x3"x3/8"), but not sure. Might do the sides and middle out of square bar, and join the 3 pieces. That is still a ways away, so time to let the brain chew on it!
Fabricated or machined form solid?
Dave
More good progress, Chris!
I like those 3d drawings. Sure makes it easy to understand what it is you're doing. One of these days I'm going to have to buy that book "3D Drawing for Dummies" so I can see how this is done.
Jim
More good progress, Chris!
I like those 3d drawings. Sure makes it easy to understand what it is you're doing. One of these days I'm going to have to buy that book "3D Drawing for Dummies" so I can see how this is done.
Jim
If you go to AutoDesk's website for Fusion 360, they have a whole series of great tutorial videos - that is how I picked it up.
Just got back from my second sojourn up north, (Asia). I have been catching up on the posts of your build and have to say I'm astonished at what you are/have achieved. I think you are certainly a master of the miniature machine tool, and obviously know these tiny Sherlines intimately, it appears you can get almost anything you need out of them. I am pretty sure you would fill a large hole in the model engineering publication offerings by doing a 'How To Build a Lombard with Micro machines' or some such. The fact that you are making something out of the ordinary and using very small equipment might be a very attractive proposition to many potential model makers who like a book on the bench to follow and who don't have the resources for Cazeneuves, Hardinges and suchlike. Regards, Paul Gough.
More good work Chris. I'm impressed that you were able to bend the drawbar frames so accurately and get the correct spacing. Well done.The technique that made it work was to do the initial bend on the second end with a slightly larger radius on the bend, measure the distance between the ends, and if too long, clamp in the vise on the middle portion right before the bend, and tap it in with a hammer. If too short, clamp it by the end and tap the middle in. The initial bend was easy to get within a 16th, so this worked out well.
Jim
More good work Chris. I'm impressed that you were able to bend the drawbar frames so accurately and get the correct spacing. Well done.The technique that made it work was to do the initial bend on the second end with a slightly larger radius on the bend, measure the distance between the ends, and if too long, clamp in the vise on the middle portion right before the bend, and tap it in with a hammer. If too short, clamp it by the end and tap the middle in. The initial bend was easy to get within a 16th, so this worked out well.
Jim
More good work Chris. I'm impressed that you were able to bend the drawbar frames so accurately and get the correct spacing. Well done.The technique that made it work was to do the initial bend on the second end with a slightly larger radius on the bend, measure the distance between the ends, and if too long, clamp in the vise on the middle portion right before the bend, and tap it in with a hammer. If too short, clamp it by the end and tap the middle in. The initial bend was easy to get within a 16th, so this worked out well.
Jim
Now that's pretty darn clever..............gonna file that one away. :atcomputer:
Jim
Been following this for a while and got to say its very impressive work! I struggle with the tracks in simple plastic model kits of tanks! Looking forward to the finished article :)Thanks! Glad to have you along for the ride!
Holy cow, Chris! That last picture shows just how long this Lombard is going to be. Looks good!When done it will be approx. 30 inches long, when the skids are on the front - with wheels mounted a little shorter (the wheels go in place of the skids on the same axle).
One thing that has really stood out to me in the videos of the full size Lombard, is just how spindly the skies look in front. They look out of proportion and seem to washout on the turns. No wonder the steerer wanted a clear path to be able to jump! :help:
Jim
Damn Dog, do you sleep? You just keep spitting out more and more parts. :stickpoke: You know Santa could use a fellow like you in his work shop. :lolb:
Just amazing work Chris.
Don :popcorn:
Yeah, well, actually, I used to work for Santa...
Till I hired away some of his elves to work in my own shop. Long story short, big fight, lots of Ho-Ho-ing, elf shoes flying all over, reindeer with a bloody nose (yes, it was Rudolph), very ugly scene....
:Lol:
Too funny, that made my day!!
Bill
Straight spur gear steering.... that's purely the Armstrong system!! :ThumbsDown: :ThumbsDown:
Pete
We didn't have a vehicle with power steering until about 1964. And a lot of folks didn't, so "Armstrong Steering" was a well understood thing....In 1964 my vehicle would have been a Tonka or Fisher Price, so a FingerStrong model!
Pete
Chris-Thanks much Bob! Glad to have you along on the trip!
I have been silently following along. This is such a cool project and the build is going at such a blistering pace. It's the Shay all over again. Much respect.
-Bob
We didn't have a vehicle with power steering until about 1964. And a lot of folks didn't, so "Armstrong Steering" was a well understood thing....
Pete
Yup, built that as a set of storage drawers at the bottom and a display wall unit on top a few years ago. It is made of Sepele, a great African wood simaler to mahogany in appearance, but denser and available in very large and wide boards, very stable with little tendency to warp.We didn't have a vehicle with power steering until about 1964. And a lot of folks didn't, so "Armstrong Steering" was a well understood thing....
Pete
I remember my first car..........a 55 chev................ had a huge steering wheel. Wish I still had it..............the car............and the steering wheel! :)
Oh yeah............the build is looking great Chris! :Lol:
Jim
PS: Did you build that multi-drawered chest in the background of your pictures? I really like it.
Jeez, Chris--You're a man of many talents. That is some nice 3D cad work, as well as the outstanding build.---Brian
Uh..............Chris...............is there any parts on this project that you get to make just one of? :lolb:
Jim
:o
Guess who.
Hiya Chris. Sorry I haven't been around to give a :stickpoke: .
Fantastic build log and model. Had a quick scan. Love the ship too!
Glad to have you back around again! :cheers:
Glad to have you back around again! :cheers:
Hee hee hee. Well we'll see. ;D
I am the thorn.
Still following along Chris. Things are looking great!! :popcorn:
They sure are! NASA put a trail of them into the capsule to get the astronauts in...Still following along Chris. Things are looking great!! :popcorn:
Because of Chris? Or his elves? One begins to wonder who's doing the work. :thinking:
Mint chocolate chip cookies are a powerful bribe.
Still following along Chris. Things are looking great!! :popcorn:Thanks Bill! Once the repetative work on the chains is done, I can start on the sprockets and gears, good thing no repetitive work there... Hey... Wait...
Bill
Still following along Chris. Things are looking great!! :popcorn:Thanks Bill! Once the repetative work on the chains is done, I can start on the sprockets and gears, good thing no repetitive work there... Hey... Wait...
Bill
'They' have taken me over, we are us now!Still following along Chris. Things are looking great!! :popcorn:Thanks Bill! Once the repetative work on the chains is done, I can start on the sprockets and gears, good thing no repetitive work there... Hey... Wait...
Bill
Yeah. You keep saying 'I' but you mean 'they'. ;D
Hi Chris,Sure. YOU deal with a hungry pack of annoyed shop elves! That is how they turn back in to shop gnomes and start hiding your tools!
Think the elves need to go on a diet! Too many cookies & progress slows!
Keep them lean & mean! :Lol:
Looking Good!
Cheers Kerrin
:ThumbsUp:Yeah, does not show up that much. Starting a little below the base of the teeth, where the bottom of the chain side rails land, it tapers about 25 or 30 thou on each side to the tips of the teeth, to reduce the tendancy for the teeth to grab the side rails as they come around. I'm sure that there is some rule of thumb out there, but I dont know it, so I eyeballed these and came up with a taper that seems to work. I turned in the taper on the lathe when I made the blanks, before I cut the teeth, which made it easier to sight down the edges and see if they were balanced. The real test will be when the big sprockets are done, and I can spin everything round.
When you said you tapered both sides...shallow? It's hard for me to see or know what you did.
You sure the elves are eating cookies and aren't on crack :lolb: :lolb:
Cletus
Lots of progress Chris! Regarding the shop elves ( even if they are bad hackers) as the Borg say..."Resistance is futile" :lolb:Huh. That's not the formula for resistance that I learned in school....
Bill
Do you mean the hub goes through the plate?Yup, I made the narrow side of the hub long enough to protrude .25 out the other side so I can hold it from both sides in the lathe. I'll turn most of that off as the last operation, leaving the full hub on one side only. The axle is .250, the hole in the plate and the narrow end of the hub are .400.
At first I was thinking the hub was on one side and then I was wondering how you were holding onto the plate when the hub was on the other side.
Moving right along Chris. You are giving that Sherline equipment a workout ... again!
Tom
Seems like I saw all this before. Oh yeah. The smaller sprockets. :Lol:
Well it was worth seeing again. ;D
That is really interesting to see those sprockets being milled, Chris. I've read about it, but I think I'm going to have to mill one myself sometime in order to really understand the process.
Jim
That is really interesting to see those sprockets being milled, Chris. I've read about it, but I think I'm going to have to mill one myself sometime in order to really understand the process.
Jim
So when do you start your Lombard model? :stickpoke:
Just imagine how much my elves would accomplish with cnc!That is really interesting to see those sprockets being milled, Chris. I've read about it, but I think I'm going to have to mill one myself sometime in order to really understand the process.
Jim
So when do you start your Lombard model? :stickpoke:
Well, so far, I've noticed that in the time I build a single part............you make a whole drive chain! :shrug: I may need to clone your elves...........or go CNC! ;)
Here's one of your projects I'd like to build sometime: http://www.homemodelenginemachinist.com/showthread.php?t=22713 (http://www.homemodelenginemachinist.com/showthread.php?t=22713) I love the action and sound it has.
Jim
So very cool Chris! Continuing to follow along with your elf-assisted build ;) :popcorn:
Kim
Well there has to be Elfs in that shop somewhere the way you been spitting out parts! :lolb: Still looking good and damn good work Dog..... :praise2:
so maybe crawfish wrestling would be better...!
Potato, patahto, patotoe, whatever! The people next door when I grew up parked their car in the 'gararge'. Accents/names can be a funny thing. We had an exchange student from Mexico City back in high school, spoke perfect English. There was one teacher from West Virginia, with a slight (we thought, anyway) southern accent. The teacher and the exchange student had a very hard time understanding each other, the rest of us had to translate since we thought they both spoke English just fine!so maybe crawfish wrestling would be better...!
crawdads in my old neck of the woods. good fishing bait.
crayfish in some other places
crawfish in New York? What are they in Louisiana?
And what do they have to do with engines? :thinking:
Great work Chris. All these little details you add to it really make it "Pop". No wonder the shop elves are working so hard on this, it's not like you'll be able to drive it...
:naughty:
Hi Ho...Hi Ho...
JOhN
chris, you often speak of removing some from one side, some from the other to even out the bend. the bend must not be there while you mill the second side, so how quick do you have to be? or are you holding the bend at bay with the vise?In the case of this bar, the bend was less than a millimeter, I've had some brass bar curve at least a 1/16th to 1/8" over 6 inches.
thanks!
calvin.
I think this thing is so cool Chris. I hope that you can make it to Cabin Fever one year with it and the Shay. I would just love to see them both as I'm sure others would too.
-Bob
I think this thing is so cool Chris. I hope that you can make it to Cabin Fever one year with it and the Shay. I would just love to see them both as I'm sure others would too.Thanks Bob! I was there (no models with me though) the year before I finished the Shay, had a great time there plus at some of the railroad museums. I am hoping to make it back there again with the models.
-Bob
That would be great. Leave the elves at home (they may skip out on you) and bring cookies. I would sure love to see your models and it'd be great to meet in person.I think this thing is so cool Chris. I hope that you can make it to Cabin Fever one year with it and the Shay. I would just love to see them both as I'm sure others would too.Thanks Bob! I was there (no models with me though) the year before I finished the Shay, had a great time there plus at some of the railroad museums. I am hoping to make it back there again with the models.
-Bob
Just catching up with this build again. Magnificent work on the chains and frames :praise2: :praise2: I see you are already thinking about the next project :) :wine1:
Suggestions anyone?
Suggestions anyone?
Yes.
:facepalm2:Suggestions anyone?Yes.
Thanks Zee.
Oh, you better check behind the couch, one of your shop elves got sick...
:facepalm2:Suggestions anyone?Yes.
Thanks Zee.
Oh, you better check behind the couch, one of your shop elves got sick...
Is okay. I'm used to puke-age.
@Brian...Nice tip. I don't know that I would've thought to go one more and see that it's accurate. Thanks. Could eye-ball the last one but this would be proof.
I do like using the 4 jaw chuck since it has the groove to lock it to the table, have had the 3 jaw turn a little during gear cutting since it doesn't have the groove around the base.
The real fun will be doing all the bevel gears for the differential, 2 large and 4 small ones.
Pretty darn impressive Chris. That's a lot of things to take into account to have it all work out. Well done.If I am thinking of what you are thinking correctly about my thinking, then yes!
Just to clarify my thinking. You mentioned that this gear (1/4 section) was based on a 96 tooth gear, requiring 3.75 degrees rotation for each tooth. OK, I'm assuming that would be for that particular radius of the 1/4 gear, so the tooth spacing came out right. If the quadrant had been a larger radius, would you have had to figure a larger tooth gear and thus had a smaller rotation of the RT for each tooth.......in order to have the tooth spacing work out correctly? Hope that makes sense.
Jim
I do like that 4 jaw chuck with the clamping groove :ThumbsUp: :ThumbsUp:I just wish they had changed two things.
Pretty darn impressive Chris. That's a lot of things to take into account to have it all work out. Well done.
Just to clarify my thinking. You mentioned that this gear (1/4 section) was based on a 96 tooth gear, requiring 3.75 degrees rotation for each tooth. OK, I'm assuming that would be for that particular radius of the 1/4 gear, so the tooth spacing came out right. If the quadrant had been a larger radius, would you have had to figure a larger tooth gear and thus had a smaller rotation of the RT for each tooth.......in order to have the tooth spacing work out correctly? Hope that makes sense.
Jim
If I am thinking of what you are thinking correctly about my thinking, then yes!
For a given gear cutter module (or DP) size, there is a specific tooth size and spacing. So, if you want a certain number of teeth you can calculate the diameter of the gear. Likewise, if you want a given diameter, you can calculate the number of teeth it would need. In my case, I counted the number of teeth in the gears on the real one from photos, ran the math, and got lucky that I have a cutter set that works. Otherwise I would have had to redo the number of teeth on all the gears, or buy another cutter set.
Do you think that having the Tooling Plate for the RT would of made your set up any easier? http://sherline.com/product/3725-5-rotary-table-tooling-plate/ (http://sherline.com/product/3725-5-rotary-table-tooling-plate/)
Jim
If you stick a small magnet on the end of a rod you can reach in and position the tee nut.Neat trick!
Pete
Do you think that having the Tooling Plate for the RT would of made your set up any easier? http://sherline.com/product/3725-5-rotary-table-tooling-plate/ (http://sherline.com/product/3725-5-rotary-table-tooling-plate/)
Jim
Possibly - it would have given more places to put the hold down clamps, including around the far side. Looks like a simple enough plate, could make one for a lot less than the $50 they want for it.
I wonder how tricky it is to put in place on the table - the four hold downs go in the slots on the table, you would have to put the bottom halves of the hold downs in the slots first then run the screws in from the top - doesnt look too easy to line up, unless the hold downs are at the very end of the slots?
Looks good, Chris. It looks like that clock building experience is coming in handy! ;)Oh yeah! Couple of gears, no sweat! Bevel gears still take a while, only done a few of those.
Jim
Glad to have you all along for the ride!
You need a sports car, they hug the road better!Glad to have you all along for the ride!
As bumpy as it is...it's a good ride. :Lol:
And you;re able to stick to the road better than I do. :lolb:
Where I'm going...I don't need...roads.
Hey...is that yet another boat in the background (12th pic I think).
More nice progress Chris. That front end is really taking shape now!!I can't wait to get the front skids on and see how it looks. The folks at the museum kindly took some detailed pics of them, they are heavy wood with a plate metal covering, with an extra runner down the bottom.
Bill
More great progress, Chris.The whaleboat is plank on frame. They were an interesting design, partly lapstrake, partly a variant of carvel planking. The middle planks were butted like carvel planks, but since they were thin like lapstrake, they used a batten on the inside to strengthen them. The uppermost and lowest planks were normal lapstrake. This combination kept weight down but strength and repairability up.
The whaleboat looks to be plank on frame?
So what kind of sports car does a person need?
Jim
More great progress, Chris.The whaleboat is plank on frame. They were an interesting design, partly lapstrake, partly a variant of carvel planking. The middle planks were butted like carvel planks, but since they were thin like lapstrake, they used a batten on the inside to strengthen them. The uppermost and lowest planks were normal lapstrake. This combination kept weight down but strength and repairability up.
The whaleboat looks to be plank on frame?
So what kind of sports car does a person need?
Jim
And most any sports car will do. I am partial to 2 seater convertibles.
Hi Jim,
One like this? Sorry you would have to repaint it!
Cheers Kerrin
Wow, Jim is buying me a car! What a guy! :lolb:Hi Jim,
One like this? Sorry you would have to repaint it!
Cheers Kerrin
Kerrin, That white TF would do just fine! :ThumbsUp:
It's funny you posted that. I've lusted after one of those ever since I saw one back in the early sixties. I love those moulded in headlights.
Jim
PS: This would work as well: https://classiccars.com/listings/view/955395/1954-mg-tf-for-sale-in-beverly-hills-california-90210 (https://classiccars.com/listings/view/955395/1954-mg-tf-for-sale-in-beverly-hills-california-90210)
Wow, Jim is buying me a car! What a guy! :lolb:Hi Jim,
One like this? Sorry you would have to repaint it!
Cheers Kerrin
Kerrin, That white TF would do just fine! :ThumbsUp:
It's funny you posted that. I've lusted after one of those ever since I saw one back in the early sixties. I love those moulded in headlights.
Jim
PS: This would work as well: https://classiccars.com/listings/view/955395/1954-mg-tf-for-sale-in-beverly-hills-california-90210 (https://classiccars.com/listings/view/955395/1954-mg-tf-for-sale-in-beverly-hills-california-90210)
OH YES!Thanks!
Look real good now!
:popcorn: :popcorn: :popcorn: :popcorn:
Cheers Kerrin
Those skids might come in handy back in your country right now, Chris!The bad snow so far has gone south and east of here, only about an inch on the ground here today, but they are predicting several more inches worth tonight and tomorrow. Nice thing about retirement, when the going gets tough, stay home!
I bet that piece took a lot of thought in order to keep from machining yourself into a corner! :shrug:
Jim
PS: Ate my last cookie today. :LickLips: :'(
P.S. - send a man some cookies, he eats for a couple days. Send him the recipe and he can make his own!! :Lol: Check post 301 in this thread! :stir:
...Sounds too much like some of the 'logic' from my working days! :paranoia:
So what happened to: "Send a man some cookies, he eats for a couple days. Get tired of him whining about being out of cookies and send him some more"! :shrug:
OH YES!Thanks!
Look real good now!
:popcorn: :popcorn: :popcorn: :popcorn:
Cheers Kerrin
But now I have a hunger for some popcorn....
Ye-gads! I'm off line for a few days and you have Six pages of updates! :o And not all of them are food related either. You made a lot of progress on your steering! And great work it is too! You don't take a break! I have NO idea how you get so much done so quickly. I can't even keep up with the build, much less make this kind of actual forward progress on a project! :)It just takes practice, prectice, percatise,... Rats! I mean Practize!
Looks amazing Chris, :popcorn:
Kim
Best start getting those gnomes biceps in shape too Chris if they are going to be able to steer this thing :) Cookies alone might not be enough... :lolb:I caught one of them with a bottle of steroids and a brochure from the local gym!
Bill
Great progress, Chris. I think I see wood carving experience coming into play here.Probably right! See the animal inside the block, set it free!
Jim
Is that the same tree that the partridge was in? Nice form work.Not sure if it was that tree or the one next to it...!
Cletus
Nicely done Chris. Will the brass be painted?The entire steering gear assembly, and most of the whole model, will be painted black. The original plates were iron or steel, and the timbers I've seen were either painted or maybe creosoted like railroad ties.
-Bob
One thing I saw recently was a short video of a gentleman in Maine who has been collecting Lombard parts from abandoned ones in the remote woods, and is building a complete working one! Once done it will be the fourth operational one in the world these days. Here's hoping he gets it going!!
There's a product that the model railroaders use called "Blacken It" for turning brass and other metals somewhat black:I have used it in the past, it works pretty well as long as you get the metal very clean first. There are simaler products for aluminum/etc too, same results, metal must be scoured clean, no oils or tarnish. For the Hauler, the black paint sprayed on is simpler.
http://www.modelexpo-online.com/product/AW2 (http://www.modelexpo-online.com/product/AW2)
I think I've got some around here somewhere. If I can find it, I'll put some on some brass and post the results.
Jim
I agree, the paint's simpler. Besides, it just going to get worn off anyway, right? I mean you are going to use this hauler in its' natural environment, right? It's not going to be the steam crawler equivalent of a Ramp Tramp or a Hanger Queen, right?
Are you going to make the wheels that interchanged with the skids so they could use the hauler during the non-winter months?
Don
Really shaping up Chris.
It's a really nifty model.
Hmm, once you retire, will you change your handle to ZeeWasAProgrammer?! :Lol:
this is looking really good, and great to see a prototype being made, can't wait to see it running .......and hear it as well !!Thanks Willy! I am going to be going up to the museum in Maine in May to see one of the real ones run, and will be taking the model up too. It may not be running by then, but should be by the next trip at the end of July, hope to have some video of them running together!
Will you be making the front wheel sets as well as an accessory, for when the snow melts ?? The axles for the skids are quite low so did it have a compleat bolt on steering mechanism ??
I know what, Chris. Instead of wheels..........why don't you make a complete track system for the front end..........shouldn't take too long to knock out the few hundred parts needed! :lolb:More tracks for the front? :slap: and here I thought I liked you!
It's really nice to have the folks up in Maine supplying you with pictures as you go along. Are they following your build thread and someone spotted the tie rods?
Jim
I know what, Chris. Instead of wheels..........why don't you make a complete track system for the front end..........shouldn't take too long to knock out the few hundred parts needed! :lolb:More tracks for the front? :slap: and here I thought I liked you!
It's really nice to have the folks up in Maine supplying you with pictures as you go along. Are they following your build thread and someone spotted the tie rods?
Jim
If I can arrange to get access to the Marion steam shovel near here then I may do a model of it, it has three sets of tracks I think...
I have been sending pics up to a couple of people at the museum and university at major milestones, one of them sent me the skid detail pics. Definitely looking forward to meeting everyone up there this spring.
I hope so! The little rectangle of land it sits on now is owned by the town and designated a landmark, so hopefully the historic society there is not too 'governmentish'. I figure that if I show some pictures of the Shay and Lombard, along with the 3D model, that I could get access inside if I would give them full copies of all photos, measurements, and 3D model/plans to help them document the machine - then it could be a win-win for all concerned. Definitely worth the attempt, might get them stirred up to do some restoration work on it.I know what, Chris. Instead of wheels..........why don't you make a complete track system for the front end..........shouldn't take too long to knock out the few hundred parts needed! :lolb:More tracks for the front? :slap: and here I thought I liked you!
It's really nice to have the folks up in Maine supplying you with pictures as you go along. Are they following your build thread and someone spotted the tie rods?
Jim
If I can arrange to get access to the Marion steam shovel near here then I may do a model of it, it has three sets of tracks I think...
I have been sending pics up to a couple of people at the museum and university at major milestones, one of them sent me the skid detail pics. Definitely looking forward to meeting everyone up there this spring.
I'm betting that once the Marion Steam Shovel folks see the model and documentation of your Lombard, they'll be more than pleased to accommodate you.
Outstanding.Thanks Tim!
--Tim
Still following and enjoying :ThumbsUp: :ThumbsUp: the picture of the of full size one underway is excellent :) :)
That whole thing is soooo cool!!! I did not know about the Lombard until you started this project, Chris, and I've been just fastinated by it. It's like the ole boy just woke up in the middle of the night and decided that if it was too expensive to lay tracks for a rail road that he would just make the loco lay its own tracks!! :facepalm:Till Ron & company posted some pics and videos last fall I had never heard of them either. The Lombard seems to have filled a niche for areas too small to bother with laying track and too far for horses to be efficient. Neat stuff! I've found some old articles and books that reference the Lombard, its amazing how quickly he went from idea to prototype to production of a huge machine.
What diameter is the boiler shell for that contraption?
Pete
Looking good, Chris. The wheels and skids came out great!Plenty of torque, but the power to weight ratio is not that great!
With the wheels on it, it looks like a dragster. :lolb: Not only did Lombard invent the "Hauler" he invented the first ever dragster...........a really s...l...o...w dragster! ;D
Jim
Yeah, quenching brass or copper doesn't change anything but how fast it gets cool, not like with steel. On a large complex part it could cause distortion if it cools unevenly, but that isn't a problem with sheet stock like this. It's surprising how easy annealed brass will bend, to a point. As soon as it work hardens it just stops moving. For the thicker copper endcaps for the boiler it will take several heatings and bendings to get the cap shape, since it needs to reform more, not just bend.
After being gone for a couple of weeks, I'm now caught up. Lots of progress.Thanks! And welcome back!
I have learned a ton of stuff here!Yeah, quenching brass or copper doesn't change anything but how fast it gets cool, not like with steel. On a large complex part it could cause distortion if it cools unevenly, but that isn't a problem with sheet stock like this. It's surprising how easy annealed brass will bend, to a point. As soon as it work hardens it just stops moving. For the thicker copper endcaps for the boiler it will take several heatings and bendings to get the cap shape, since it needs to reform more, not just bend.
That's one of the amazing things I learned about metal.
I like this forum. Great explanations and help.
Great stuff Chris. Sorry to hear you were down with a cold, hope you are feeling better.---BrianThanks Brian! I was worried when it first hit with such severity, but it has receeded remarkably quickly. Maybe the shop elves put some magic into that last batch of the cookies...! Feeling much better now, just need to get the full strength back again.
Great stuff Chris. Sorry to hear you were down with a cold, hope you are feeling better.---BrianThanks Brian! I was worried when it first hit with such severity, but it has receeded remarkably quickly. Maybe the shop elves put some magic into that last batch of the cookies...! Feeling much better now, just need to get the full strength back again.
At least I don't get big and green when angry! Way too hard on the clothes.Great stuff Chris. Sorry to hear you were down with a cold, hope you are feeling better.---BrianThanks Brian! I was worried when it first hit with such severity, but it has receeded remarkably quickly. Maybe the shop elves put some magic into that last batch of the cookies...! Feeling much better now, just need to get the full strength back again.
I would wish for half your strength.
It does take a few tries to learn how long to cut them to
If you mean 1.5x the shank diameter sticking out the other side of the stock, that sounds about right. A lot depends on the size of the hollow in the end of the forming tool. For mine, I think I am going a little longer than that, and leaving a broader head on the inside. I would say 1.5 to 2x would be a good range. For hammering it over, I tend to go a little shorter. Once I got the length figured out I just started snipping them off by eye, the exact length is not that critical.It does take a few tries to learn how long to cut them to
My rule of thumb is 1.5 times the rivet shank diameter, which would be 3/32. I drill a hole in a scrap piece of stock to make a cutting guide. How close does this match what you are doing?
Dan
Chris,Great diagram - thanks! After doing another batch, I am coming down to that 1.5x mark. Longer and it tends to push off to one side, shorter and it doesnt leave a full round.
I make the dies match the factory head with a slight bit sticking out so the die does not make a mark on the plates.
Here is the formula for set allowance for British practice:
http://www.sapphireproducts.co.uk/641t1.htm (http://www.sapphireproducts.co.uk/641t1.htm)
I just rounded S=1.429D to S=1.5D.
Dan
Looks great Chris, I admire your patience with all those rivets too!!With the rivet tool they only took a couple hours, and look great. Good practice for the saddle tank, all the seams are riveted. Going to make the flanges wider so I can use the tool up to the corners.
Bill
Wow Chris............what a difference a little paint makes! This bad boy is starting to get some bulk.
As a side note, that "Dust Deputy" in the background looks interesting. What kind of vacuum do you have it hooked to? Does it separate out swarf before it goes to your vacuum?
Jim
Wow Chris............what a difference a little paint makes! This bad boy is starting to get some bulk.
As a side note, that "Dust Deputy" in the background looks interesting. What kind of vacuum do you have it hooked to? Does it separate out swarf before it goes to your vacuum?
Jim
Those Dust Deputy attachments are great. You put it on a 5 gallon bucket with a rim of plywood to stiffen the lid, and hang it on the side of a shop vac. I have a small 5 gallon vac. It seperates out all the dust and swarf, nearly nothing makes it to the vac anymore, except for the occasional bit of paper. Pop the lid and you can dump the bucket, the shopvac filter stays clean so it doesn't bog down. I use the same setup in my wood shop, same results there too, all the fine dust to big chunks separate out before the vacuum. With the vac and bucket on a set of wheels it all moves together. These work much better than the older lid type ones, same principle as the dyson vacs, just much much bigger cyclone unit.
I've been very happy with it - like you say, it solves the swarf-in-the-filter issues, and works very well. Only issue I've had is if I make the mistake of trying to vacuum up the long twisty shavings, they clog the vac hose itself.Wow Chris............what a difference a little paint makes! This bad boy is starting to get some bulk.
As a side note, that "Dust Deputy" in the background looks interesting. What kind of vacuum do you have it hooked to? Does it separate out swarf before it goes to your vacuum?
Jim
Those Dust Deputy attachments are great. You put it on a 5 gallon bucket with a rim of plywood to stiffen the lid, and hang it on the side of a shop vac. I have a small 5 gallon vac. It seperates out all the dust and swarf, nearly nothing makes it to the vac anymore, except for the occasional bit of paper. Pop the lid and you can dump the bucket, the shopvac filter stays clean so it doesn't bog down. I use the same setup in my wood shop, same results there too, all the fine dust to big chunks separate out before the vacuum. With the vac and bucket on a set of wheels it all moves together. These work much better than the older lid type ones, same principle as the dyson vacs, just much much bigger cyclone unit.
Thanks for the info, Chris. I'm going to look into getting one. l've been hesitant to vacuum up swarf and then have to deal with it in the vacuum filter. Sounds like one would take care of that issue.
Hmmmm ... looks like that puppy will be on the road in a couple of weeks!Yup, probably THIS weekend.
Tom
The steering wheel came out great, Chris. You're getting this spoke business down pat!And a Charlie Chaplin one wouldn't be the same! :Lol:
Now it just needs a Betty Grable steering knob! Well maybe not.............the Lombard was a little before her time. :shrug:
Jim
Geesh. I read a bunch of posts from you...and then just minutes later (it seems) there's another set.They don't let me drive theirs, thats why I have to build one for myself!
Very nice looking steering wheel. :ThumbsUp:
Are your elves chaffing to drive the thing?
Got a guy at work interested in Sherlines.Well, show him the pics from this build, should be proof that the sherline can cut steel just fine! Maybe not in as deep a cut as quickly as a full size Bridgeport, but it gets there!
He couldn't believe what was available and their size.
But he doesn't believe me when I say, "Yes. They can carve steel".
(I didn't tell him that 'They' are elves.)
That's a very sharp looking steering wheel Chris! Are you going to add a knob? (with our without Betty Grable? :) )I looked at a bunch of vintage pictures of these, no sign of knobs on any of the steering wheel rims. Not even any Babe The Blue Ox figures from the rear view mirrors!
And all your fab work on the boiler bracket is looking mighty fine too!
Kim
That's a very sharp looking steering wheel Chris! Are you going to add a knob? (with our without Betty Grable? :) )I looked at a bunch of vintage pictures of these, no sign of knobs on any of the steering wheel rims. Not even any Babe The Blue Ox figures from the rear view mirrors!
And all your fab work on the boiler bracket is looking mighty fine too!
Kim
From the stories I've heard/seen, it was the worst in fresh snow, better when they were in a iced track. The steering wheel has a pretty good gear reduction to it, but there is still an awful lot of weight from the front of the machine on the skids. I saw pics from the museum when they had a truck scale under the front axle. With an empty boiler, it was over a ton on the front axle. Gotta be a lot more with a full load of water in the boiler and the saddle tank. The whole machine loaded up was something like 30 tons.That's a very sharp looking steering wheel Chris! Are you going to add a knob? (with our without Betty Grable? :) )I looked at a bunch of vintage pictures of these, no sign of knobs on any of the steering wheel rims. Not even any Babe The Blue Ox figures from the rear view mirrors!
And all your fab work on the boiler bracket is looking mighty fine too!
Kim
One of your posted videos of running the restored Lombard shows two guys reefing on that steering wheel. No steering knobs for them. Must of been a real bear to steering that thing.
Good work on that frame. I like how you will bolt it together for silver soldering. Filed that one away.
Jim
But, thats enough for one day, time to go get a cookie and relax...Yeah, well, mentioned that on an earlier post, used to work at North Pole Inc., till the ... um, incident ... big food fight in the elf cafeteria, a bloody nosed reindeer, bad things written on the toys, some jokes about a big fat boss, you know how it goes... :ROFL:
Must be a lot of energy in those cookies Chris with this non stop work. I am thinking you must of worked for Santa at one time or another seeing as how you don't come up for air very often..... :lolb:
But hey Dog the work is great and following your work is remarkable....
Don
Chris...being American, you do know that we learn best by making boo-boos. I haven't seen a boo-boo from you for a long while...if ever.I don't do boo boos. I do major brain farts! Most hit the scrap box or the trash can before the camera can focus. Most recent were te botched spokes on steering wheel, remade with new part. Also blew it on first front wheel.
;D
BTW...in one of your shots is a shelf with a bunch of little itty-bitty things on it. You know the question.
Oh boy, oh boy! We get to see you make bevel gears... :popcorn:Again! :o
Pete
Hi Chris I'm on Page 5 amazing work, the ship model is wonderful too, I suppose you are familiar with MSW http://modelshipworld.com/ (http://modelshipworld.com/)Hi Mike!
and the wonderful build logs there of some remarkable ship models.
The track parts are very nice I cannot recall reading about the cutting of the slots depth of cut or feed info. Did you cut each slot in 1 cut or were there a number of passes in and out for each slot? I know this is way past , But I just started your log.
Mike
I've cruised NRG from time to time.Sure!
Hey Chris...any thoughts on how to do an 18th century hull in metal. ;D
I've cruised NRG from time to time.Sure!
Hey Chris...any thoughts on how to do an 18th century hull in metal. ;D
Start with wood. They were not making metal ship hulls in the 1700s!
None whatsoever.I've cruised NRG from time to time.Sure!
Hey Chris...any thoughts on how to do an 18th century hull in metal. ;D
Start with wood. They were not making metal ship hulls in the 1700s!
No help. No help at all. :cussing:
Got to page 15The 303 is very nice stuff - works sort of like brass, though not as quick a cut. Takes a nice finish, silver solders well, though I read it does not weld well, but I dont have a welding setup so no problem there. Much easier to work than some of the other alloys. I detest 304 stainless, though the one piece I tried might have been mislabeled.
Wow you work on the small lathe and mill certainly show what can be done. Your comments about taking breaks when doing repetitive work made me smile.
The tracks turned out very nicely, I shall have to try out some 303 stainless it looks like a nice material to use.
Nice beginning on the sprockets.
Mike
Hey Chris...any thoughts on how to do an 18th century hull in metal.
Wow - that is some serious work on the Clyde model!QuoteHey Chris...any thoughts on how to do an 18th century hull in metal.
Check out Gerald Wingroves stuff
http://www.wworkshop.net/Falls_of_Clyde/Menu.html (http://www.wworkshop.net/Falls_of_Clyde/Menu.html)
Thanks for the heads up on the 303 Chris I shall have to try some.
Mike
QuoteHey Chris...any thoughts on how to do an 18th century hull in metal.
Check out Gerald Wingroves stuff
http://www.wworkshop.net/Falls_of_Clyde/Menu.html (http://www.wworkshop.net/Falls_of_Clyde/Menu.html)
Thanks for the heads up on the 303 Chris I shall have to try some.
Mike
Wow - that is some serious work on the Clyde model!
There you go Zee, step by step of a metal hull. First project for the new shop?
As for the Lombard, I am planning on starting the differential today...
Those will be some nice parts! I do like your logical thinking in developing a sequence. It shows in all your work and, I think, is why you are so successful in making things.Thanks Pete! Making parts from bar stock that would have been castings can be a challenge, but fun!
This Lombard thing is sooooo neat!!!
Pete
A big wad of clay around the blank will probably stop the ringing....Interesting idea. The first part is trash, though its good enough for experiments. I cut down a chunk of 3/8 6061 aluminum and bolted it to the faceplate, want to see how the gear cutter works on that. I will hold off on undercutting the sides though, that was a mistake on the first part, should have worked from the outside in.
Pete
I sure hope I didn't jinx you when I commented on boo-boos (lack thereof).Nope, not at all! I can't even blame it on stinking hoppies!
But I also know that nothing stops you.
Well, step backwards time.
I did some more cutting on the gear teeth after lunch, and ran into some problems. Most of the gears I've done till now have been in brass, this is first large one I've done in steel, and with the recesses already done in the sides of the plate, I am getting vibration and ringing in the plate when making the cuts, which is causing the shaft to move very slightly and slowly in the chuck. Big problems when cutting gear teeth!
:Mad: :cussing: :hammerbash: :rant: :toilet_claw:
So, time to remake the rim part. I'm thinking I may try and find a large chunk of brass to make it from, given the size of the teeth it should be plenty strong for the model. I do have some 6061 aluminum that is thick enough, could make it from that as well, though soldering on an axle shaft would not work on that, though I could bolt it to a faceplate...
Rethink time!
I wonder if this accessory would have stabilized the rim, so you wouldn't of had the vibration: http://sherline.com/product/3702-adjustable-right-angle-tailstock/ I've got one, but haven't had an occasion to use it yet.
Probably would have helped. Maybe pick one up for next time!I wonder if this accessory would have stabilized the rim, so you wouldn't of had the vibration: http://sherline.com/product/3702-adjustable-right-angle-tailstock/ (http://sherline.com/product/3702-adjustable-right-angle-tailstock/) I've got one, but haven't had an occasion to use it yet.
I've got that accessory and it works great! I used it when making my gears.
But then again, they were only brass. But I found it a big help, and I think it would help for steel too.
Kim
There are certain problems that present themselves given the relative size of your project and your equipment. I am ever impressed with your ready solutions.
Lookin` good!
--Tim
I just got to find out what you been putting in those cookies Chris..... :lolb: got to be some good stuff Dog because you just don't stop and come up for air.... :lolb: you putting this old Coonass to shame Dog, damn that's some awesome work........ :praise2:There is something magic about the combination of mint and dark chocolate! :thinking:
Don
There is something magic about the combination of mint and dark chocolate! :thinking:
Well, that goes without saying!There is something magic about the combination of mint and dark chocolate! :thinking:
And good red wine and castings ::)
Jo
There is something magic about the combination of mint and dark chocolate! :thinking:
And good red wine and castings ::)
Jo
Number Teeth - N | 24 | 60 |
Module | 0.7 | 0.7 |
DP | 36.28571429 | 36.28571429 |
Pitch Diameter: D= N/P | 0.661417323 | 1.653543307 |
Diametral Pitch: P= N/D | 36.28571429 | 36.28571429 |
Whole Depth: Ht= 2.188/P+.002 | 0.062299213 | 0.062299213 |
Addendum: a= 1/P | 0.027559055 | 0.027559055 |
Dedendum : b= Ht-a | 0.034740157 | 0.034740157 |
Clearance: c= Ht-2*a | 0.007181102 | 0.007181102 |
Circular Tooth Thickness: T= PI/(2*P) | 0.043289663 | 0.043289663 |
Pitch Angle: Lp = atan(Np/Ng), and Lg= atan(Ng/Np) | 21.80140949 | 68.19859051 |
Pitch Cone Radius: Rcp= D/(2*sin(Lp)), and Rcg= D/(2*sin(Lg)) | 0.890460322 | 0.890460322 |
Face Width: F= min(C/3, 8/P) | 0.220472441 | 0.220472441 |
Outside Diameter: Dop= Dp+2*a*cos(Lp), and Dog= Dg+2*a*cos(Lg) | 0.712593203 | 1.674013659 |
Back Cone Angle: = 90-L; | 68.19859051 | 21.80140949 |
Back Cone Radius: Rbp= Dp/cos(Lp), and Rbg= Dg/cos(Lg) | 0.356184129 | 2.226150806 |
Virtual Number of Teeth: Vp= N/cos(Lp), and Vg= N/cos(Lg) | 25.84879107 | 161.5549442 |
Offset for second cut on teeth: | 0.021629381 | 0.021642359 |
Degrees per whole tooth to move rotary table | 15 | 6 |
Blank Roll - angle to move rotary table for second cut | 3.75 | 1.5 |
Tooth Depth to cut | 0.059444882 | 0.059444882 |
That is just too neat, Chris! You must fell like doing a happy dance right now :whoohoo:Oh yes! Its always great when days of work come out successfully!
Kim
Very impressive Chris, So far I've chickened out from attempting gears. That diff. looks fine. Regards...........Terry
Well, there's no doubt in my mind where to go when I need some gears cut.. :naughty:
Pete
Hang about....were did that new boat pop up from?Actually the boat was on very slow schedule. I won the fiberglass hull in the raffle at the big RC submarine meet in Carmel Indiana last August, got the cabin made last fall, and it sat unfinished for the last 5 months till I finally got the running gear mounted last week. Still need to put in the cockpit controls and the lobster pot winch and pulley.
Zee we have been duped!
Those elves are on double time....ether that or they are running two shifts! Boat & gears at the same time!
Oh the gears do look the part! The elves will be keen to nick them!
Cheers Kerrin
Hope you didn't suffer any damage Chris. Power outage is inconvenient but with a generator even that is tolerable.
Hope you didn't suffer any damage Chris. Power outage is inconvenient but with a generator even that is tolerable.No damage here, I had taken out the row of giant pine trees behind the house two years ago, good thing since pines were uprooting all over town. A row of power poles near here that they replaced after the wind storm two weeks ago all broke again today! About 150000 houses with no power here, couple of the towns north of here are under states of emergency, stuff down everywhere.
Bill
Hope you didn't suffer any damage Chris. Power outage is inconvenient but with a generator even that is tolerable.
I wouldn't worry much about Chris. He's got elves.
We need to figure out how he's able to retain such good elves. What are we doing wrong?
Seems' like all the elves and gnomes we have are into stealing and gas lighting us.
Seriously though...glad you didn't have damage and hope the same for your neighbors.
Note the question. What are we doing wrong? Not...what is he doing right?
Those gears look insanely good.
@Kerrin...if we continue watching...we'll continue being duped. ;D
Oh, four things, a steam train layout in the basement for them to play with!
I'm still under a nondisclosure agreement from my days in Santa's workshop, can't say anything more....Oh, four things, a steam train layout in the basement for them to play with!
Time for pics dude.
No. Not pics. It's movie time!!!
How many other secrets do you have? No. Don't answer that. Could lead to a TV special.
Oh, four things, a steam train layout in the basement for them to play with!
Time for pics dude.
No. Not pics. It's movie time!!!
How many other secrets do you have? No. Don't answer that. Could lead to a TV special.
I'm still under a nondisclosure agreement from my days in Santa's workshop, can't say anything more....
Sigh.Oh, four things, a steam train layout in the basement for them to play with!
Time for pics dude.
No. Not pics. It's movie time!!!
How many other secrets do you have? No. Don't answer that. Could lead to a TV special.
I'm still under a nondisclosure agreement from my days in Santa's workshop, can't say anything more....
In which case..you've violated it already. ;D
Sigh.Oh, four things, a steam train layout in the basement for them to play with!
Time for pics dude.
No. Not pics. It's movie time!!!
How many other secrets do you have? No. Don't answer that. Could lead to a TV special.
I'm still under a nondisclosure agreement from my days in Santa's workshop, can't say anything more....
In which case..you've violated it already. ;D
Now I have to call in the ninja reindeer assassin squad on you...
Pump action Ithaca? Very long shelf life...Sigh.Oh, four things, a steam train layout in the basement for them to play with!
Time for pics dude.
No. Not pics. It's movie time!!!
How many other secrets do you have? No. Don't answer that. Could lead to a TV special.
I'm still under a nondisclosure agreement from my days in Santa's workshop, can't say anything more....
In which case..you've violated it already. ;D
Now I have to call in the ninja reindeer assassin squad on you...
Now for that...I have repellent.
Wait...lemme check the expiration date...
Yep. Still good.
Amazing what you can get done when you and Zee aren't talking cookies, gnomes and ninja assassins
Pffftttt! Not one shop. Four shops! Pffftttt! 8)Amazing what you can get done when you and Zee aren't talking cookies, gnomes and ninja assassins
Pffft. He's got a shop. With helpers.
I just have an empty room.
A great big nothing.
And not that big.
Until that room becomes a shop...I can only distract.
Lately you all are getting hammered back there, weather wise. Beautiful here today.......got up flying. Rain back tomorrow. :(What? Back to rain again tomorrow? They give us ONE day where its not pouring and then back to rain again... I'll be ready for a bit of dry soon. I don't even require sun. Just not pouring rain would be fun :)
This is coming out nice Chris. As I watched the differential building process, I've been trying to figure out how you were going to drive it. Really simple when I saw it drawn up! :Doh:Thanks Jim, am very happy with how the diff is coming out. None of the mechanism is my design, I'm following the original as closely as I can
I've learned a lot watching this build. Now if I can just remember it. :wallbang:
Lately you all are getting hammered back there, weather wise. Beautiful here today.......got up flying. Rain back tomorrow. :(
Jim
Deal!Lately you all are getting hammered back there, weather wise. Beautiful here today.......got up flying. Rain back tomorrow. :(What? Back to rain again tomorrow? They give us ONE day where its not pouring and then back to rain again... I'll be ready for a bit of dry soon. I don't even require sun. Just not pouring rain would be fun :)
Chris, love watching your fabrication work. That is really neat looking, and I am going to have to do something like this someday. Maybe without tracks. Or who knows, maybe with! (if you sign the copy of your book for me, then I'll definitely build one with tracks :) ).
KIM
Nice idea on the adaptor.Thanks. I would SO love to spend some time in Sherlines back room with some of their engineers. So many little things that could be upgraded and improved at no cost.
It's often too easy to get stuck looking at a tree and not the forest.
Nice idea on the adaptor.Thanks. I would SO love to spend some time in Sherlines back room with some of their engineers. So many little things that could be upgraded and improved at no cost.
It's often too easy to get stuck looking at a tree and not the forest.
Was using the turning tool to mark the bearings in order to provide a starting point for the hacksaw?Exactly. It gave an indent for the blade to ride in without skating. The width was not critical, I filed them smooth and to width. The tool mark was about the width of the blade, which was dumb luck.
How did you account for the width of the hacksaw?
:popcorn:
Was using the turning tool to mark the bearings in order to provide a starting point for the hacksaw?Exactly. It gave an indent for the blade to ride in without skating. The width was not critical, I filed them smooth and to width. The tool mark was about the width of the blade, which was dumb luck.
How did you account for the width of the hacksaw?
:popcorn:
My first real boat (a wonderful 12' Whitehall row/sailboat, built by Shew and Burnham in Maine), was named 'Dumb Luck'.Was using the turning tool to mark the bearings in order to provide a starting point for the hacksaw?Exactly. It gave an indent for the blade to ride in without skating. The width was not critical, I filed them smooth and to width. The tool mark was about the width of the blade, which was dumb luck.
How did you account for the width of the hacksaw?
:popcorn:
Shhhhhh. It is always by design.
I havetwomany rules at work:
1) First see if the bug can be made a feature.
2) Answer all why questions with 'by design'.
:lolb:
My first real boat (a wonderful 12' Whitehall row/sailboat, built by Shew and Burnham in Maine), was named 'Dumb Luck'.Was using the turning tool to mark the bearings in order to provide a starting point for the hacksaw?Exactly. It gave an indent for the blade to ride in without skating. The width was not critical, I filed them smooth and to width. The tool mark was about the width of the blade, which was dumb luck.
How did you account for the width of the hacksaw?
:popcorn:
Shhhhhh. It is always by design.
I havetwomany rules at work:
1) First see if the bug can be made a feature.
2) Answer all why questions with 'by design'.
:lolb:
And on the one project we did with Java as the main engine, we called everything a 'Java bug, we can't fix that'. :atcomputer:
all ran nice and smooth
My first real boat (a wonderful 12' Whitehall row/sailboat, built by Shew and Burnham in Maine), was named 'Dumb Luck'.
Wow! Small world! That Whitehall was a whole lot of fun, wound up selling it years later when I started building full size boats myself. Last I knew it was at a cottage down on Seneca lake, kept indoors in a boathouse. Beautiful boat!QuoteMy first real boat (a wonderful 12' Whitehall row/sailboat, built by Shew and Burnham in Maine), was named 'Dumb Luck'.
Wow, I could tell you have good taste. Dick Shew and Cecil Burnham are two of my best friends. I've known them since about 1978. I helped build their boat shop, and on more recent boats I make the brass tags with the Coast Guard required data. Sadly, they are getting pretty old now, Dick still works in the shop, but mostly in the vein of puttering. Cecil still builds a few skiffs each year for the local fishermen, and repairs some of the whitehalls.
You should see their tug boat- about 26 feet of the finest kind. It has a feathering prop, behind a GM 6-71 diesel, turned by a coupling I made. Two pieces of durabar cast iron 6" diameter, weighed 36 pounds to start, yielded an 18 pound part.
That photo of the differential on the main rails is just outstanding. Amazing work.
I hate to sound like a broken record...I love this thing. Great job Chris.Thanks Bob!
-Bob
Rather than fondling castings like Jo, I tend to collect plans and try not to drool on them too much...
Its very different. Plsns are lighter weight! :Lol:Rather than fondling castings like Jo, I tend to collect plans and try not to drool on them too much...
fondling vs collecting :thinking:
Keep in mind she does both. I'm betting you do as well. Collect the plans andfondlepore over them.
I do the same.
I am still following along Chris, just haven't commented in a few days. The differential and its mount look wonderful. You are outdoing yourself and that ain't easy to do :)
Bill
Yeah but imagine how TINY all those chain links would be and the differential would look more like a watch I bet.Well, yeah. Thats why I suggested that someone else build it!! :lolb:
Bill
Not really- the gas Lombard is as big as the steamer. There is a fully restored one in the Maine State Museum, right next door to the state capitol. And that is just past the 1849 LION locomotive- one that I think desperately needs to be modeled. I started it, but in G scale it became watchmakers work and I quit. My start is at http://pleasantcovemodels.com/lion.htm (http://pleasantcovemodels.com/lion.htm)I was not aware of that museum, will be going past there on the trip this spring, will stop in, Thanks!
Over on Gail's thread we were discussing gear cutting, and Dan mentioned the book Gear Cutting Simplified from Industrial Press. Just got my copy, terrific reference book, makes a great addition to the Ivan Law book. It lays out ghe terms and formulas much better than Law does, where Law gives more background info.
Whoops! You are right, it is Gear DESIGN Simplified.Over on Gail's thread we were discussing gear cutting, and Dan mentioned the book Gear Cutting Simplified from Industrial Press. Just got my copy, terrific reference book, makes a great addition to the Ivan Law book. It lays out ghe terms and formulas much better than Law does, where Law gives more background info.
Couldn't find a book called "Gear Cutting Simplified" :atcomputer: so went over to Gail's thread and it looks like it's called "Gear Design Simplified". Sounds like a good book. I've got Ivan Law's book..........just need to spend more time with it. What I actually need is a copy of "Gear Cutting for Dummies"! :Lol: Of course there's no substitute for coming up with a need and then just dive in and do it.
Jim
Chris--I get a lot of ribbing about the "living color" I use with my models. I do it because it makes the individual components so much easier to see.--BrianIt does help, in one color things things are just blobs.
Chris-Sounds like as much confusion on making model ones as full size ones! They got all wrapped around the pole confusing straight form and gleason form teeth.
An ironic thread about machining the bevel gears for a Lombard restoration over at PM:
http://www.practicalmachinist.com/vb/general/machining-bevel-gears-332469/?s=982f369009d6d1f6aa251517a2b5c5fd (http://www.practicalmachinist.com/vb/general/machining-bevel-gears-332469/?s=982f369009d6d1f6aa251517a2b5c5fd)
-Bob
Chris--I get a lot of ribbing about the "living color" I use with my models. I do it because it makes the individual components so much easier to see.--BrianIt does help, in one color things things are just blobs.
Hi, may i ask why the furthest away parts look bigger than the nearest parts ?? is it the colour?? intriguing
It is interesting how color effects perceptions, the farther cylinder is lighter, so has less shadow effect to your eye. Also it has the mounting flange showing, also light, which makes it look larger. I used to work with a lot of image scientist types, who would be able to talk for hours on perception effects and optical dillusions.Chris--I get a lot of ribbing about the "living color" I use with my models. I do it because it makes the individual components so much easier to see.--BrianIt does help, in one color things things are just blobs.
Hi, may i ask why the furthest away parts look bigger than the nearest parts ?? is it the colour?? intriguing
It is interesting how color effects perceptions, the farther cylinder is lighter, so has less shadow effect to your eye. Also it has the mounting flange showing, also light, which makes it look larger. I used to work with a lot of image scientist types, who would be able to talk for hours on perception effects and optical dillusions.Chris--I get a lot of ribbing about the "living color" I use with my models. I do it because it makes the individual components so much easier to see.--BrianIt does help, in one color things things are just blobs.
Hi, may i ask why the furthest away parts look bigger than the nearest parts ?? is it the colour?? intriguing
It's called an isometric projection. Three axes at 120 degrees. All measurements show as true length parallel to one of the axes. Easy to handle on the drawing board for a scale representation in 3-D.
Parallel lines stay parallel rather than converging at a horizon, but an always be measured. Not like a perspective drawing. Distant parts appear to be over size as we normally see with a perspective view where parallel lines converge at the horizon. As Pete says, it tends to look a little strange until you are used to it, but it is useful when it is desirable to show at scale rather than just an artistic presentation. Obviously both have their places.
I always enjoy looking in on the inspiring work on this model, thank you Chris for your trouble in writing it up so well for us all to follow and enjoy.
MJM460
Thanks for the info I did wonder if it was isometric ,perspective ,trompe d'lol or just good old "should have gone to specksavers" and i have now cancelled my appointment to Specksavers !!! Its a good job that cad doesn't work to Pespective although it might introduce some extra realism to our models !!
Chris--I have always been faintly interested in Stephenson reversing links. Not enough to really pay close attention to them.--Just enough to think, "Gee, that's rather neat." After seeing the ones in your 3d model, I went on an "in depth search" about them and even downloaded a 3d model from "Grabcad" to follow the workings a little more closely. Very interesting mechanism.---BrianOne of the interesting things about that linkage is that they did not just run them at one end or the other. By coming in slightly from full travel, it reduces the travel on the valve, which changes the amount of steam inlet on each stroke. The farther you move in, the more that effect, until towards the middle of the travel you are not moving the valve at all. This gave some control of power vs steam used, sort of an early version of what the Corliss valve cutoff controls allow in much better form. Neat stuff.
Chris-Sounds like as much confusion on making model ones as full size ones! They got all wrapped around the pole confusing straight form and gleason form teeth.
An ironic thread about machining the bevel gears for a Lombard restoration over at PM:
http://www.practicalmachinist.com/vb/general/machining-bevel-gears-332469/?s=982f369009d6d1f6aa251517a2b5c5fd (http://www.practicalmachinist.com/vb/general/machining-bevel-gears-332469/?s=982f369009d6d1f6aa251517a2b5c5fd)
-Bob
:cheers:
In looking at your model, I am wondering how motion of the eccentric straps get transmitted to the levers with the valve rod. Certainly an interesting setup.
Your a man after my own heart!!---If the part doesn't match the plan, then change the plan to match the part. Only those people who design in 3d cad and then build the parts they designed know how often that happens!!!
Your a man after my own heart!!---If the part doesn't match the plan, then change the plan to match the part. Only those people who design in 3d cad and then build the parts they designed know how often that happens!!!
Isn't that why they invented shims and sandpaper?!
I bet you were glad to get back to cutting metal. I like the clever use of the lathe tool to register where the gear needed to go on the shaft. Filed that one away.Not sure where that one came from. I had slid the gear on to check the fit, started to measure to find center, and it kept slipping as I brought the calipers up. The toolpost was right there, so moved it in to hold against, and Voila! Or, Guitar! :Lol: (get it, Voila, Viola... oh, never mind...) :ShakeHead:
Jim
Hi Chris,I think I have an idea of how they did it. First, here is the connection at the top of the rocker arm to the valve rod, does not look like there is any vertical play in it, unless there is a slot in the top of the rod. But, I found the drawing they did, and the hole in the rod is just a round close fit on the bolt.
Referring back to your comment on the rocker arm connection to the valve rods, this is similar to the monitor engines on another thread. It has a short vertical slot instead of a close fitting hole in the rod end connector to allow for the vertical part of the rocker arm motion. It would be pretty difficult to see this in looking at the original. While it does not seem ideal due to the vertical friction force which will still tend give a little side load to the packing, it would be much better than trying to bend the valve rod as it passes through the packing. In any case it will be a wearing part and I would suggest some care in making the rod end and the pin easily replaceable. I would also suggest making a spare set of pins and rod ends as part of your two years spares kit. (You did order two years spares with this machine, didn't you?).
Some sort of rod guide and Conrod type connection would seem better, but not true to original, and clearly one of the necessary compromises in fitting everything in on the original. It is also a machine that would probably flex enough on rough conditions to offset any advantage in the extra complexity.
MJM460
Hi Chris,I had not thought of that, neat idea, drill and tap through the side of the rod, right? Clever!
:popcornsmall:
Still here still having a fun ride.
On the valve front sounds like you've got it sorted, one suggestion make the valve "nut" from rod not the usual square material.......with rod it will fit nice & rotate just that little bit to help with the rod angle changes.
Cheers Kerrin
Hi Chris,Yes, been using the viton rings since the Shay build, Kozo used them on all the shafts, works out great, gives some tolerance in the seals.
Your valve rod solution looks OK to me. Especially with steamers valve nut idea. I don't have experience using o- rings this way, but my reading suggests that many do. I assume you will use a high temp viton so it stands the steam temperature.
Your great work is continuing in those bearing blocks. I admire the way there never seems any impediments, you just get going. You must work on some of those solutions in your sleep!
MJM460
Hi Chris, Regarding your vertical displacement in the rocker arm, it is small at 3 thousandths. I would expect you will find it might actually be a bit different due to machining and fitting tolerance variations once you get it assembled. The usual arrangement would be to locate the centreline of the valve spindle halfway in relation to the vertical displacement in the arc the rocker, this allows 1 1/2 thou each way rather than 3 in one direction. This sort of tolerance might be hard to achieve, so I might suggest doing the best you can with machining then packing the rocker arm support, the cylinder bracket support or even a slightly different thickness gasket under the valve chamber walls depending which is the easiest or most satisfactory from your point of view. This might entail assembly-test-measure-disassembly-packing-reassembly-recheck, but it was how things were done with older steam locos because there was always a bit of variation that had to be accommodated. The accuracy achieved was just as good as CNC, but it was got after machining with filing, scraping and sometimes packing, this is the 'individuality' of steam locomotives. From my days as a machine tool maintenance fitter, very small but necessary adjustments when no very thin metallic packing is available can be had using good quality paper, made from rag is best but not absolutely essential. It is a bit intuitive as you need to 'guess' the crush. Believe it or not I have seen roll your own cigarette papers used to get perfect alignments.Good tips! I don't know about the lead, will see what I can find out. For the height adjustment, I have a selection of thin shim stock, and I have used paper and also foil too in the past. Whatever makes it fit!
One thing with the valve gear on the Lombard. I would be most interested to know if the eccentrics are set to give negative lead in full gear, this was reasonably common with locomotives using Stephensons valve gear. Its lead increases as one 'notches up' which is useful at speed but better starting can be achieved with negative lead. In the model this may be irrelevant but it might have been a design consideration with the full size one, if you could find out and enquire by how much I would be very grateful. Regards, Paul Gough.
Really nice. If you stare at them long enough at this time on a Friday afternoon (beer thirty 8) they almost start to have "faces" :lolb: . NS, Try it :stir:Now thats disturbing... Cause they DO! :stickpoke:
Eric
Damn nice Dog, you just keep setting the scale bud and those bearing block are looking to cool. Those elfs are sure busy little fellows huh? :lolb:They sure are busy, I could sit and watch them make parts all day! :Lol:
Still following some great craftsmanship Dog!
Don :popcorn:
Damn nice Dog, you just keep setting the scale bud and those bearing block are looking to cool. Those elfs are sure busy little fellows huh? :lolb:They sure are busy, I could sit and watch them make parts all day! :Lol:
Still following some great craftsmanship Dog!
Don :popcorn:
I'm familiar with the concept of CNC, but now I'm starting to understand all about "CNE"...........aka "Crubey's Numerous Elves"! :lolb:
Do the elves have a open or union shop?Santas Elves Local 3.14159
Eric
I bet the Christmas party is a hootSome great videos, but a horrible mess to clean up the next day! You won't believe the mess reindeer make!
Eric
Nice work Chris.:ROFL:
:popcorn: Still following along.
For some reason.
Looks really good. I have learned the same lesson as you in regards to boring a hole. It is SO much quicker and easier in the lathe.Good, so it wasn't just me!
I have gotten hold of some plans for the Stanley 20hp engine, prints came today, it would make a wonderful scaled down model.
Thanks Chris. I'd done a little googling and you've confirmed that what I was looking is what I was looking at. ;DIts most likely definitely a possibility! I think! :facepalm:
I recall (I think young) woman coming on the forum that was interested in a Stanley. Maybe she'll come back when you start this.
You're going to do it right? Right?
It's a great project.
I am just getting caught up again with your log Chris. The progress is impressive and the parts beautiful!!Thanks Bill! Welcome back! :cheers:
Bill
Now to get eccentric (quiet back there Zee!)...
No, you're good, I meant your evil twin zeepy! :lolb:Now to get eccentric (quiet back there Zee!)...
::) Who? Me?
What? That's it? That's all you got?Some of the elves are on vacation.. :ROFL:
Your elves are slacking off. Aren't you feeding them?
I probably shouldn't have said that. You... :cussing: ...like Kim will probably point out that you're least making parts. :facepalm2:
No, that was me and....Good point!! :stickpoke:
You know that you can set the mini lathe right on the dinner table Carl.
-Bob
What? That's it? That's all you got?
Your elves are slacking off. Aren't you feeding them?
I probably shouldn't have said that. You... :cussing:...like Kim will probably point out that you're least making parts. :facepalm2:
I'm still envious of Zees big new shop!What? That's it? That's all you got?
Your elves are slacking off. Aren't you feeding them?
I probably shouldn't have said that. You... :cussing: ...like Kim will probably point out that you're least making parts. :facepalm2:
Zee.............at least Chris is making parts! :LittleDevil:
Jim
I'm still envious of Zees big new shop!What? That's it? That's all you got?
Your elves are slacking off. Aren't you feeding them?
I probably shouldn't have said that. You... :cussing: ...like Kim will probably point out that you're least making parts. :facepalm2:
Zee.............at least Chris is making parts! :LittleDevil:
Jim
More great looking parts Chris!! Been meaning to ask....is that live center Sherline or an alternate vendor and if so who's? I like the looks of it.Thanks Bill.
Bill
Yeah, I have the Sherline one and you are right ...not much room in front of the body, that is what I liked about yours. I will check out LMS. Thanks,Oh, there was one thing I had to do, cut the taper section shorter for the sherline, which uses a normal mt0 taper but the length is about half. Easy to cut with hacksaw, cleaned up on grinder.
Bill
More great looking parts Chris!! Been meaning to ask....is that live center Sherline or an alternate vendor and if so who's? I like the looks of it.Thanks Bill.
Bill
That center is one I found online. Little Machine Shop has a very similar one, but I forget where I got mine. It has a longer tip, so the cutter has room in front of the main body, unlike the stock one, also more rigid.
Recently we were discussing the longer nose live center I got from LMS. Just looked at the Sherline site, and they have a new live center with an extended nose, they say designed for turning pool cues. It has a smaller tip to clear the lathe tool, which is very handy on long thin parts. Here is the page for it:
http://sherline.com/product/1182pc-pool-cue-live-center/ (http://sherline.com/product/1182pc-pool-cue-live-center/)
It has an MT0 base, so will fit the normal tailstock. It is $88, which seems a bit pricy, but it is a handy shape. May order one and see...
(http://sherline.com/Wordpress/wp-content/uploads/2017/03/1182pc_pic-468x351.jpg)
Hi Pete,
Hope you are going to post up how you did it!
Cheers Kerrin
I am looking forward to the Stephenson links. They are quite fascinating in their operation.---BrianMe too! I think I have worked out the sequence to get the follower arms to right length and also the links to the proper radiuses, using a jig on the rotary table. If not done symmetrically the valves are not moving evenly in both forward and reverse. The links will be steel.
That was fascinating.Thanks Zee!
Nice job showing how to do it. :ThumbsUp:
Very intuitive there Dog, ......I..........like......... :Love:Thanks Don - it took some figuring and sketching to get the order of things worked out so that I could keep the same setup of the jig throughout, but it was worth the time to work it out.
Don
but it was worth the time to work it out.
but it was worth the time to work it out.
I hope you paid him well. ;D
but it was worth the time to work it out.
I hope you paid him well. ;D
Fortunately Elfbert Elfstein works for cookies!!
:lolb:
Hi Chris,We just got hit with a few inches of rain in a day here, everything is greening up quick with the temperature going up finally. All the snow is gone now.
Well on the way to the plant this morning I noticed the guy down the road has got his maize in! Means the :popcorn: can't be too far away......just watched the weather won't be in the next couple of days they are forecasting 200 - 250 mm of rain the mountain is due for nearly double that.... thanks to X cyclone Debbie.... our average for the month is 120mm.
Hope they can get the :popcorn: in soon given the rate you are progressing I'm running out! Good how to make those bits, tricky little suckers!
Cheers Kerrin
Well, when you crank this beast up it will have to be with the front wheels then rather than the skis :)Well, never know here, we got a snow storm in July once. Though the snow melted really fast! Hopefully it is over for the year!
Bill
Valve gear is NICE :praise2: Regards TerryThanks Terry! I am very pleased with how it is turning out. Looking forward to getting the support brackets and links made. Nothing done on it today, over working on the porch at my mother's house instead.
Nifty.We use the lower frequencies like 75mhz or lower, the newer 2.4ghz ones won't penetrate the water. Actual depth depends on the water. Heavily chlorinated pools you can lose signal about 3 feet down, pools with other chemistry 6 or 8 is good. Fresh water at least that, usually limited by visibility.
What kind of radio and how deep can the sub go under control?
Check out the Subcommittee forum site, lots of info.
Well it's for sure you got it going on Chris. Just down right great machining Dog! I am going to enjoy seeing this thing running..... :praise2:I can't wait either!
Don
I asked the same question early in the build. The answer is that the two linkages are connected by the same bar that holds the lifting links. So both engines are locked in forward/reverse at the same time. Only the front skids have effect on steering.
I would love to see the looks on their faces!! We need lots of pics of that trip and the model alongside the real thing.The folks at the museum have seen some pictures during the build, so they know its coming, still should be a great experience. My camera will get a real workout on that trip, lots of pics and videos for sure.
Bill
Okay---I'm impressed!! Quick question---I downloaded a 3D cad file of a twin cylinder steam engine with Stephenson links just to study up on them a little. How much offset is there supposed to be between the two cams on a common link?---and--Does the engine have to be throttled down to a low speed before switching into reverse (It seems obvious that it would have to be because of the inertia of flywheels, etcetera, but I remember old steam train movies when a crash between two trains was imminent. the engineer thru the engines into reverse while the train was still moving forward, and a great shower of sparks came off the wheels when they started to rotate in reverse while the momentum of the train was still carrying the train forward.) Or---does the Stephenson link shut off the steam as it flips over the "cam point" and then reopen the steam path. I'm pretty vague on the operation.--BrianHi Brian,
Thanks for the great report on the live centers Chris. The new Sherline one would of worked great on several occasions where I had issues with their previous one. It's on my "buy" list.I agree, it seems like it would be a huge amount of stress and force on the mechanism, if there was good traction you would likely break something, drive chain, gear teeth, etc. On an icy surface, maybe not, but there were many tons of weight on the tracks. I would not want to try it! The engine on the lombard was geared down to the tracks, so the force at the tracks is higher even though the speed is lower. I think it was in one of the audio interviews with the driver I posted that he talked about the time the drive chain broke, and they lost all control and went backwards down the hill.
Now on the Stephenson links. I can get how you could reverse direction on a locomotive (I've seen the video) and a boat where there's not a lot of friction to keep it moving in one direction. However on something like the Lombard, with good traction, it seems like even though the engine has been told to run in the opposite direction, momentum would keep the engine moving in the original direction and bad things might happen?
Jim
Seems the only reason for reverse on the hauler was maneuvering to hook up the sledges or in parking.Probably right!
Thanks for the review on the new live center Chris. It looks good and definitely better than the original Sherline, but $88 is still pricey. Maybe they will make it the monthly featured item soon :)The one from LMS is a better value, and also quite good, just slightly larger tip than the new one.
Bill
:popcorn:Glad to have you along for the ride!
As before...nuttin to say. ;D
But I'm watching and :popcorn:
Some people think engineering is for philistines, I happen to think it is one of the most creative and artistic endeavours,
Chris, Have you tried blacksmithing, maybe you could try forging some parts. Some people think engineering is for philistines, I happen to think it is one of the most creative and artistic endeavours, though I am inclined to think 19th century examples offer the most elegant expressions of mechanical motion. Paul.Never done any blacksmithing larger than little parts for ship models, though there is a local welding supply company that has a classroom building where they teach welding, blacksmithing, glasswork, etc. I took the copper class there, learning to raise bowl shapes from sheet stock. Want to take the blacksmithing class sometime too.
Though unless you actually build the part, machine, whatever, you never know the other puzzles hidden inside the first one. There are always more things to learn from making and running something.Some people think engineering is for philistines, I happen to think it is one of the most creative and artistic endeavours,
:ThumbsUp:
Not that one has to be an engineer...but it's always been about solving puzzles (i.e. coming up with solutions) for me.
That's also been part of my problem...once I see and understand the solution...I'm kind of done and ready for the next.
Nice fabrication job on the brackets Chris. Thanks for the like to the German website too. There is s wealth of historic information there.Thanks Bill.
Bill
Though unless you actually build the part, machine, whatever, you never know the other puzzles hidden inside the first one. There are always more things to learn from making and running something.Some people think engineering is for philistines, I happen to think it is one of the most creative and artistic endeavours,
:ThumbsUp:
Not that one has to be an engineer...but it's always been about solving puzzles (i.e. coming up with solutions) for me.
That's also been part of my problem...once I see and understand the solution...I'm kind of done and ready for the next.
Is yours the same scale Chris? Somehow yours looks bigger to me. I have no doubt that yours will run just as well or better!!Not sure what scale his is, though it does look a little smaller than mine. Hard to tell. Guess we need a road trip!
Bill
Though unless you actually build the part, machine, whatever, you never know the other puzzles hidden inside the first one. There are always more things to learn from making and running something.Some people think engineering is for philistines, I happen to think it is one of the most creative and artistic endeavours,
:ThumbsUp:
Not that one has to be an engineer...but it's always been about solving puzzles (i.e. coming up with solutions) for me.
That's also been part of my problem...once I see and understand the solution...I'm kind of done and ready for the next.
Oh that's true...but to some extent, at that point you're picking one puzzle over another.
More importantly...and I think there is where people would take me out back...it's the only way to actually prove you're right.
It's sort of the road issue. Do you enjoy the road or the end point? I enjoy the road. I don't mind not finishing. Many people enjoy the endpoint.
Well I do mind not finishing...just not as much as not starting on the next. Think of 'Up' and "squirrel!".
Which is odd now that I think about it. I hate to travel...but love being where I end up.
Don't care. It's whatever is enjoyable and fun.
Chris,I couldn't find it in the US either, wound up ordering it from the UK, pretty sure it was on ebay shipping was cheap. Comes as a powder, mix it with water and a drop of liquid soap. I just mixed up a small amount in a nother plastic container, for what I do it will last years.
I have looked before and could not find a source of the Tenacity 5 flux in the U.S. Where did you get yours?
--Tim
I enquired of the Dutch builder what scale he used for his Lombard model and he replied it was 1:16, or 3/4" to the foot in the old money, Loek is his name. Paul.Good to know - mine is 1:12 scale, so it is a bit larger than Loek's model. Hope mine runs as nicely as his does!
Hi Chris, always a pleasure to follow your progress.Glad it is working out for you! I learned a lot from the tutorial videos on thier website, quick way to learn the basics of their modeling and workflow. Some friends of mine here are using it to model and 3d print parts for their RC models too.
After seeing your and Vince Fusion360 activities, I have downloaded the programm 2 weeks ago.
So Pandoras box is open and I have learned a new definition of CAD.
It is pure pleasure to learn and get things done.
Thanks for pushing me that direction with the screenshots of your modelling.
re your comment about your elves being Piranha around your cookies...3-in-1 oil...
Your posts gather the members. Chomp chomp chomp.
Tasty!!!
What's that flavor of oil? ;D
Can I assume that the eccentric strap die block is just the round end of a pin that goes through the bottom of the rocker?Correct - the pin is fixed to the lower end of the arm, and rides in the arched slot in the link plate. The upper end of the rocker will have a connection to a T shaped block on the end of the valve rod.
What an incredible body if work Chris, in this model alone. Well done!!!
Bill
Dog that is bad ass looking Machine. Very nice work Chris and still with you....... :praise2:Glad to have you along for the ride!
Don
Holy cow Chris..............that's a rather "busy" area! Looks great! :praise2:And haven't even gotten to the cylinder, piston, crossheads, valves, intake pipes, exhaust, let alone the boiler....!
Jim
Looking good Chris, real good.Thanks Bob!
-Bob
I was watching Impossible engineering on the science channel last night and they were showing the Lombard Hauler. I saw the side tracks before they said what it was and knew what it was.
great job on the parts made. I look forward to seeing the progress everyday.
Dave
I was watching Impossible engineering on the science channel last night and they were showing the Lombard Hauler. I saw the side tracks before they said what it was and knew what it was.
great job on the parts made. I look forward to seeing the progress everyday.
Dave
Thanks Dave,
I caught that one too, looked like the Maine forestry museum's hauler. It's a very distinctive shape. On the show they said it was used to haul logs in the summer too, which I was not aware of, have to look into it and see if that was true or not. With the extra friction on mud and dirt, doubt they could pull anywhere near as big a load.
I was watching Impossible engineering on the science channel last night and they were showing the Lombard Hauler. I saw the side tracks before they said what it was and knew what it was.
great job on the parts made. I look forward to seeing the progress everyday.
Dave
Thanks Dave,
I caught that one too, looked like the Maine forestry museum's hauler. It's a very distinctive shape. On the show they said it was used to haul logs in the summer too, which I was not aware of, have to look into it and see if that was true or not. With the extra friction on mud and dirt, doubt they could pull anywhere near as big a load.
Chris...........in your research have you gotten a feel for what kind of distance they were towing these sleds of logs?
Jim
One thing that keeps crossing my mind is that these must have been incredibly maintenance intense machines. I know steam locomotives were and they ran on controlled rails. That these were running on trails, and given the complexity of the mechanics, they must of had some interesting breakdowns.I bet you are right, all the maintenance of a train, plus the track plate joints, rollers, chains and gears to grease and clean, all mixed with ice, snow, dirt, mud, wood chips...
-Bob
:popcorn:Anything other than "plenty"?
I'll have plenty to say later.
Plenty.
:popcorn:Anything other than "plenty"?
I'll have plenty to say later.
Plenty.
:Lol:
Looks like a productive day in the shop Chris. Cylinders are coming together nicely.This is the first time I have silver soldered up a cylinder assembly like this, been wanting to try it. Assuming that it works out, and it should, then "castings? Who needs castings!". :Lol:
Bill
Looks like a productive day in the shop Chris. Cylinders are coming together nicely.This is the first time I have silver soldered up a cylinder assembly like this, been wanting to try it. Assuming that it works out, and it should, then "castings? Who needs castings!". :Lol:
Bill
Chris's Cookie Casting Company, cast from only the best dark chocolate swarf!Looks like a productive day in the shop Chris. Cylinders are coming together nicely.This is the first time I have silver soldered up a cylinder assembly like this, been wanting to try it. Assuming that it works out, and it should, then "castings? Who needs castings!". :Lol:
Bill
I can just see the ad now: "Crueby's Castings.........we make castings........one machined piece at a time"! :lolb:
Jim
:ThumbsUp: :ThumbsUp: :popcorn:You did. You said "I have popcorn stuck to both my thumbs!"
You weren't expecting me to say something were you? ;D
Those turned out well Chris, I bet you are happy to have that done too.Definitely. The bores turned out well. The nervous bit is coming up, getting all the steam ports and passages done, lots of fine offsets.
Bill
thats looking great, and i always sleep on how to figure out how to make bits ,,that why it always take ages to make the parts for my engines !!
Chris---sometimes naps are the answer. I find it almost impossible to nap through the day, but when I go to bed I solve a lot of mechanical problems in that period of time between when I close my eyes and the old brain shuts down for the night. You're doing great work, I love it.---BrianSitting in the sun, comfy rocker, reading a good book, somehow the nap finds me. Sure beats sitting in a conference room, bad chair, boring subjects, trying to look awake!
Sure beats sitting in a conference room, bad chair, boring subjects, trying to look awake!
Thanks!QuoteSure beats sitting in a conference room, bad chair, boring subjects, trying to look awake!
Been there and done that - including falling asleep :-[
You keep amassing me and the rest of the crew around here :praise2: - so what can I say, other than keep up the good work and we will all follow you :popcorn: :wine1:
Best wishes
Per
I have to admit you are relentless, damn Dog do you ever rest? But then again your making good progress. Awesome work Chris.........I..........like........ :Love:Thanks Don,
Don
Wow!Thanks Carl! Learning to fabricate some of these parts that were castings on the original has opened up lots of new kinds of parts for me. Finally getting more comfortable with the silver soldering on the smaller parts.
Yeah...I know it's not 'plenty'...but wow. :ThumbsUp:
Sometimes it's hard to gage size but that picture of the cylinder in the lathe chuck on the rotary table I can relate to! Smaller than it looks like in some of the other pictures of just the cylinders. Well done though!!Thanks Bill! The bore is .625" wide x 1.15" long. I am very happy with how they turned out. The macro mode on the camera can make things look pretty big sometimes.
Bill
Nice set up to mill the arcs for the gland bolts.Thanks Mike, I went back and forth on how to do them, then spotted the arbor I used to radius the ends of the valve links, already tapped the right distance out, so used that. Worked easy.
Mike
Nice setup for the arc on the packing gland Chris. I hope I can remember that for when I might need it. :shrug:That was the first time I tried the offset that way, usually I centered the part on the holder, and offset everything in the 4 jaw, but reversing it for the opposite side was a chance to misalign it. This way it self aligned both ways the same, and I can use same setup for the gland parts.
It's interesting to see the cylinders (power part of this whole project) mounted and realize just how small they are compared to everything else.
Jim
Now we are starting to see what might be called 'the guts' of the machine coming together an even greater appreciation of your 'make it' approach to modelling is evident. It is testimony that models of quite complex machinery can be manufactured without recourse to castings, 3D printing, CNCing etc. etc. Nor in fact, to overly sophisticated machine tools, not even power feed on your lathe! The tradition of the artisan and craftsman live on through your hands and mind. A great inspiration to all who see this work. Bravo! Bravo! (I do pray this will be a real steamer.) Regards Paul Gough.
Now we are starting to see what might be called 'the guts' of the machine coming together an even greater appreciation of your 'make it' approach to modelling is evident. It is testimony that models of quite complex machinery can be manufactured without recourse to castings, 3D printing, CNCing etc. etc. Nor in fact, to overly sophisticated machine tools, not even power feed on your lathe! The tradition of the artisan and craftsman live on through your hands and mind. A great inspiration to all who see this work. Bravo! Bravo! (I do pray this will be a real steamer.) Regards Paul Gough.
Now we are starting to see what might be called 'the guts' of the machine coming together an even greater appreciation of your 'make it' approach to modelling is evident. It is testimony that models of quite complex machinery can be manufactured without recourse to castings, 3D printing, CNCing etc. etc. Nor in fact, to overly sophisticated machine tools, not even power feed on your lathe! The tradition of the artisan and craftsman live on through your hands and mind. A great inspiration to all who see this work. Bravo! Bravo! (I do pray this will be a real steamer.) Regards Paul Gough.
A definite AMEN to that.................Terry
Really. Not a lot to say except mesmerizing.
Too busy :popcorn: :popcorn:
Good example of using your indicator setup to offset a piece in the 4 jaw Chris. It looks like the offset boss may have come pretty close to the edge of the chuck opening when centering it for the centered boss?Hi Jim,
Jim
Doesn't it make you feel great, when after milling all of those mating parts in individual set-ups, the bolts all go in!! Got to be one of those "great moments in machining" feelings.---BrianOh yes!
Not really anything to show today,
Well, actually I do have this to show, figured I'd hear SOMETHING back on that post!Not really anything to show today,
:cussing:
I hope the nuts don't match that plaque! Got a good batch, about 5-1/2 dozen drilled and parted off, ready to debur the parting edge of the holes and tapping them. I need 26 per cylinder, for the caps and steam chests, so a few for next parts and to drop and lose.
So stop working on that silly airplane and get back to the engine! Nuttin else matters! :lolb:I hope the nuts don't match that plaque! Got a good batch, about 5-1/2 dozen drilled and parted off, ready to debur the parting edge of the holes and tapping them. I need 26 per cylinder, for the caps and steam chests, so a few for next parts and to drop and lose.
Well...............NUTS................I turn my back for a little while and look at what all you get done! :lolb: Myself............I'm gettin NUT-IN done on my P & W build! :Lol:
Jim
Was just reading the latest progress on Kim's tractor, and realized that I have forgotten to drill the steam inlet passages in my cylinders! Whoops!
Gee lots of pressure, no movement... What could be wrong?!?! :wallbang:
So stop working on that silly airplane and get back to the engine! Nuttin else matters! :lolb:I hope the nuts don't match that plaque! Got a good batch, about 5-1/2 dozen drilled and parted off, ready to debur the parting edge of the holes and tapping them. I need 26 per cylinder, for the caps and steam chests, so a few for next parts and to drop and lose.
Well...............NUTS................I turn my back for a little while and look at what all you get done! :lolb: Myself............I'm gettin NUT-IN done on my P & W build! :Lol:
Jim
Hi Chris,Thought about recessing them, but the piston is thin, the nut is only 1/16 thick at most, would have had to make the recess big enough for a driver to fit, so I didn't think it would matter much on a low speed engine.
The cylinders are coming on, very nice work.......mind you we have come to expect no less.......the gnomes have been quite for a while, have they got something else they are playing with?
One question though, how come you didn't recess the nut in the top of the piston? Helps keep the swept volume down & allows the piston stroke to be more even.......well that's what I got told anyway.
Cheers Kerrin
Great work on the Cylinders Chris.Yes, will have a working butane fired boiler, can also run on airfor indoor displays. I have a roll of a fiber paper gasket material, forget where I got it, McMaster? Amazon? It works well for cylinder seals, is a bit thicker and denser than brown paper, is meant for this kind of seal. Very similar to the stuff Stuart Turner put in kits, a little thicker.
You're planning to run this on actual steam, right? Will the paper gaskets cut it? Or do you need something more substantial to hold up under the temperature and moisture of steam? I'm wondering this form my own build...
Thanks,
Kim
OK, that makes sense. I'm going to have to find me some of that fiber gasket paper!
Thanks Chris,
Kim
I've been busy but still trying to watch and :popcorn:Thanks Zee, we are all waiting for the invites to your open house and shop tours when the construction is done!
Looking good.
Goes for all you other members too. I try and read as much as I can.
Exceptional work as always Chris. One of my go to threads on a daily basis.Thanks Bill!
Bill
Chris, have you ever considered getting a shim punch set similar to this:https://www.mscdirect.com/product/details/52426152Used one back in my working days, one of the techs had one in his toolbox in the lab. Using the kife method, it goes really quick, and leaves a little material around the screw shanks that helps them seal when the holes are really close to the edges, which they are a lot. This gasket material cuts really asy, but has enough fibers that the holes dont rip out. The larger openings would still need to be cut anyway. Guess I am just stuck in that rut! Lazy? Yes. Have my habits ingrained really deep? Yup!
If you watch for sales you can get it for about half that price and this set can punch washers as well in soft materials up to .020" thick and in steel shim stock up to about .010" Would work well for that 1/64" fiber gasket stock you linked to. I will usually make a plan copy of the part needing the gasket and glue it to the gasket material and then use that as a guide for punching all the holes. Works like a charm and makes nice clean holes easily. Just a thought.
Bill
Here's a trick I learned for make those gaskets. Before you put in the studs, mark out the gaskets by pressing the cylinder ends and steam chest into a stamp pad and then the gasket material. That will give you an outline with all of the holes marked. It makes cutting them out much easier.Now that is clever! Thanks!!
Tony
Speaking of gaskets...Interesting question. If it can cut through before the surrounding fibers catch it should be good. This material is meant for auto use, so the flash point should be a little higher than plain paper.
I have a CO2 laser. Useful for making gaskets? Or will the material simply burn?
Is it a plotter type laser or handheld?
How many gigawatts is it? :zap:
Worth a try, be interesting to see how it works out. You should be able to use it for wood parts for your diorama too!Is it a plotter type laser or handheld?
How many gigawatts is it? :zap:
Plotter. Currently buried under a bunch of stuff in the basement.
Hi Chris,
So the rest of the :popcorn: is in! So should have enuff to get thru the winter watching you in summer making progress!
Oh & when Zee brakes out the laser & starts vaporizing gaskets we'll have a heat source for more :popcorn: ! Be interested to see how it goes Zee. Seen advertised here on the box a plotter cutter thingy for craft work & wondered how it would work on gaskets, might have to do some more investergating!
Cheers Kerrin
Good progress Chris. :ThumbsUp:Yeah, certain parts they are just the thing!
You've been getting a lot of use out of those collets and collet blocks. I sure like mine!
Jim
Looking good Dog and still with you bud!...... :praise2:Thanks Don!
Don
Looking good Dog and still with you bud!...... :praise2:Thanks Don!
Don
Today was off doing family stuff most of the day, got in a little more paint work, and was about to do the crank pins when I spotted a brain fart on the plans, and the time went to fixing the 3d model and reprinting the con rod parts. Then time for a good nap!
Looking good Dog and still with you bud!...... :praise2:Thanks Don!
Don
Today was off doing family stuff most of the day, got in a little more paint work, and was about to do the crank pins when I spotted a brain fart on the plans, and the time went to fixing the 3d model and reprinting the con rod parts. Then time for a good nap!
Boy................. doesn't that just really tick you off when the designer makes a mistake like that? :rant: Oh wait...............you are the designer! :lolb:
Jim
I just fired myself!!
:lolb:
I've been pushing it a bit in the hopes of having the engine running on air for the museum trip in a couple of weeks. If no roadblock appears, thats possible still.
Thanks Zee!I've been pushing it a bit in the hopes of having the engine running on air for the museum trip in a couple of weeks. If no roadblock appears, thats possible still.
Oven getting a workout making those cookies for your elves? ;D
Engine running on air in a couple of weeks eh? Looking forward to the video!
Great model.
Good to see you including some 'blacksmithing' for the bearing straps,(U Brackets). As you say "Simplist" is best, always is, but unfortunately not many of us seem to have the clarity of focus to get hold of it, having the 'vision' to see it is the mark of a master designer/constructor. Regards, Paul Gough.
What the Three Musketeers(Bill, Don and zee) said.Thanks! There's a Monty Python sketch lurking there... :Lol:
-Bob
Couple of questions Chris: How are you going to keep those wedges in place and how did they keep them in place on the full site engine? They remind me of a line out of Pete Culler's book "Skiffs and Schooners" in talking about small classic sailing skiffs: "Why use a fitting when a knot will do?"Hi Jim, first off I have to say, Culler is a favorite of mine, built a couple of his designs and I still use his shearstrake paint scheme on all my lapstrake boats. I learned a lot of my boatbuilding skills from Mystic Seaport, Culler, John Gardner, others.
Jim
So no binding in the valve rods due to the arc of the links?None. I used an o ring for a seal, and the holes in the gland are a few thou over the diameter of the rod, so the rod can pivot on the o ring. Also, the slot in the valve slider for the adjustment nut allows the nut to rise and fall the couple thou as it moves. No apparent binding.
This is getting exciting! :cartwheel:That would be great! When can you have a couple of them ready for me? :Lol:
Making a miniature hydraulic jack to jack the Lombard up to get it resting on the jack stands will be a fair little project in itself. :naughty:
Jim
This is getting exciting! :cartwheel:That would be great! When can you have a couple of them ready for me? :Lol:
Making a miniature hydraulic jack to jack the Lombard up to get it resting on the jack stands will be a fair little project in itself. :naughty:
Jim
I made a set of scale screw jacks using Lima prints. I can post the drawing if you want some for this build or your Shay.I would love to see the drawings of the jacks!
Shay conrods were made with wedges also.
Cheers Dan
That sounds very promising Chris, will look forward to seeing things go round and round as time permits. Meanwhile enjoy the family and the sub run!!Thanks Bill.
Bill
Late to the party as usual but that is FANTASTIC Chris!!! You have to be happy with that result!!Very!
Bill
Well done Chris...we all knew you would get there!
Just been cleaning up my metal storage.....nice piece of copper tube........no no NO must stay on track.....
Cheers Kerrin
A great milestone in a great build. Well done Chris.Metric milestone, hmmm, KilometerMarkerpostSignThingy jst doesn't have the same ring to it! For a small scale model, how about MicronPebble?
Milestone? How do I metricate that now?
Now looking forward to seeing some boiler making! At least fewer identical parts.
MJM460
I have built 12 steam engines of varying configurations, and on all of them I found they respond "better" with high pressure but regulated flow, just as you are doing. Particularly if there is any load on them.----Brian
Locomotives and engines with adjustable cut-off systems like the Stephenson seem to run best with the throttle wide open and the speed controlled by notching up the cut-off. I learned that just a few years ago after spending most of my life thinking it was the throttle controlling the speed!!! :facepalm:Interesting! Have to try that combination once I get it dialed in, thanks!
Pete
Late to the party.
Awesome Chris! :ThumbsUp: And many congratulations.
That had to feel really good.
P.S. Nope. The song didn't stick. But blast you...it triggered a different song. ;D
Well that's right. Scale has to enter into that equation somewhere and I know that thermodynamics doesn't scale along with the mass of the engines we work with. But I do know that on 7 1/2" ga. notching up is effective. I don't know if the Lombard model will see much effect but I just can't wait for Chris to try it!!!!
Pete
All right, all right your the man. That's awesome Dog love the motions and as usual impressive Chris. Damn I need to hire me some of those Elfs and get some of your cookies..... :lolb:The elves get a little noisy in the late night parties, but worth it by the work they do! :ROFL:
:drinking-41:
Don
Hi Chris, When i looked at the video on Utube the next vid that came up after was people singing Sacred Harp I sing this over here with a small group in Norwich. !! so are you into this as well or is it just a random thing that came up ?? !!
Hi Chris,
Woo she runs pretty good! Thinking back on the video links of its full size cousin the action of the engine looks pretty much the same, maybe they had a couple of tight spots too.
Oh did I hear clapping & whoops of joy in the background? I have a feeling your little helpers have a plan!
:lolb:
Cheers Kerrin
It's getting there, Chris! Remember, air does not have the thermal expansion qualities steam does. So changing the 'cut-off' won't have much effect compared to steam.Thanks Pete! Its running pretty good right now, just that one spot where it stutters, this one actually was pretty easy to get going once I figured out that the swing arms had been slipping. MUCH easier to time than the Corliss engine was. Still probably needs some fine adjustments, but it is within a degree or so of the proper spots on the eccentrics, and the new valve sliders seem to be a good width, just enough to close fully before turning around the piston, but not so long that the open time is too long at full throw of the reverse gear.
Removing all slack and tight spots should be done before sweating the timing too much. Very important for slow (normal) speed running.
Truly great work you're doing!!
Pete
I don't know all that much about this stuff, but I can't help but think that when you load these engines down (even just turning the tracks up in the air) that it will really settle down and smooth out. This is fun to watch. :popcorn:I'm really wondering too, the whole track mechanism does add a lot of resistance, so I am not sure how different it will run. On the gauge 1 locos, with loco only its often tough to slow them down, but adding some wieghted cars they settle down nicely. Guess I'll find out soon, assuming that there is no hangup in the drive chain or track.
Jim
Thanks guys! Very kind.
Jared - the centerline of the crankshaft is only a little above the centerline of the piston, and it shows that way in the drawings and photos of the original too. I think they had to raise it slightly to get clearance for the differential case above the ground, and the engine had to be low enough so the reversing gear links would clear under the boiler. The photos of the model were taken at an angle that make it look like a much bigger height difference, but it is raised less than half the thickness of the shaft. Its possible that I have it a little too high, given that I am interpolating a lot of the measurements from their photos. I'll find out for sure when I see it in person next month, going to be taking LOTS of photos, measurements, drawings while I am there. Naturally it would have been nice to go there before starting, but that was too late in the season for me last fall.
Harking back to Pete's post, no1390, which mentions the difference between expansion of steam and air. I know all of us "younger guys" have been told this by the old hands for so long that it could have been started by Stevenson himself. But it does not seem to be supported by the thermodynamics.I think the missing bit is that the steam expands more than the 2x you are figuring with. Also, a big thing with running a large engine is getting the power you need with minimum of steam, since fuel is money. The Corliss engine was major savings since it used 30 percent less steam for same work provided.
If constant pressure is applied for the whole stroke, then the work done is found by the formula
Work = Pressure times change of volume. Note that this is quite independent of the type of fluid, it involves only volume and pressure.
When we notch back the valve gear, so that the valve closes before the end of the stroke, there is some of that oft quoted "expansive work". For an ideal adiabatic engine, the formula is a bit more complex, but the important point is that it includes a factor, usually written as k, which is the ratio of specific heats, and is different for steam and air, in addition to pressure and volume terms.
If we assume that after the valve closes we expand the fluid to twice the volume so the pressure is reduced to half its value at the point of valve closure, then yes, a volume of steam gives more work than the same volume of air. But only by less than 2%! Hardly earth shattering.
I know there are many practical issues which also affect the performance of an engine, and if those who have experience driving the same engine with both steam and air have noticed the difference, then I cannot argue with their observations. But then I also can't help wondering what are the real reasons for the difference as I don't believe it is the thermodynamics. I would be interested to know what I am missing.
MJM460
Man, I missed a lot since I last saw this post! The pictures really did exaggerate the heights as it looks different in the newest pics and videos. AWESOME WORK!! This is going to be (well, already is!) a fantastic model! Keep it up! :)Thanks Jared! This morning I am getting the track riser built, hope to try it on air with tracks later today...Thanks guys! Very kind.
Jared - the centerline of the crankshaft is only a little above the centerline of the piston, and it shows that way in the drawings and photos of the original too. I think they had to raise it slightly to get clearance for the differential case above the ground, and the engine had to be low enough so the reversing gear links would clear under the boiler. The photos of the model were taken at an angle that make it look like a much bigger height difference, but it is raised less than half the thickness of the shaft. Its possible that I have it a little too high, given that I am interpolating a lot of the measurements from their photos. I'll find out for sure when I see it in person next month, going to be taking LOTS of photos, measurements, drawings while I am there. Naturally it would have been nice to go there before starting, but that was too late in the season for me last fall.
Well bugger....I was hoping to see video :LittleDevil:So was I!!!
Bill
Well just pour some fine sand in there and turn the air up to 60!!! That'll fix 'er....
:lolb: :lolb: :lolb:
Gettin' closer!!
Pete
Worth the wait Chris, I am a bit surprised though that the speed reduction between the engine and the tracks is not more. Pretty amazing though with all those working parts!!!Steam has such high low speed torque, guess they didn't need much. Normal locomotives have no reduction at all, Shays were around 2:1, these are about 5:1.
Bill
Chris,Interesting. I would have guessed the opposite, but I guess it makes sense that the smaller ones needed more torque.
Shays have a gear ratio from 2:1 to 3:1. The big Shays are 2:1 and the small ones are the ones with the 3:1 ratio.
Dan
Hi MJM, definitely an interesting topic, but as you say would be better off in a new thread, the steam vs air performance in both single and compound engines would be great to learn more about.
Chris
so much for splitting threads.... :ROFL:Hi MJM, definitely an interesting topic, but as you say would be better off in a new thread, the steam vs air performance in both single and compound engines would be great to learn more about.
Chris
That would be a great topic for discussion. :ThumbsUp: My first question would be: For a simple single cylinder steam engine, does 15 lbs of steam pressure at the inlet valve give different results than 15 lbs of air pressure?
Jim
Chris, the difference between steam volume at boiler pressure and at atmospheric pressure is much greater than 2 : 1
so much for splitting threads.... :ROFL:Hi MJM, definitely an interesting topic, but as you say would be better off in a new thread, the steam vs air performance in both single and compound engines would be great to learn more about.
Chris
That would be a great topic for discussion. :ThumbsUp: My first question would be: For a simple single cylinder steam engine, does 15 lbs of steam pressure at the inlet valve give different results than 15 lbs of air pressure?
Jim
I know what your saying Chris. :lolb: What I should of said is: "That would be a great topic for discussion. :ThumbsUp: I'm not asking this question here, but if we had a thread for this question, that I'm not asking here, I would ask does 15 lbs of steam pressure at the inlet valve give different results than 15 lbs of air pressure?" :naughty:
Uh-oh Jim, sounds like you are ready for a career as a lawyer! Sorry if that is too offensive! :LittleDevil:so much for splitting threads.... :ROFL:Hi MJM, definitely an interesting topic, but as you say would be better off in a new thread, the steam vs air performance in both single and compound engines would be great to learn more about.
Chris
That would be a great topic for discussion. :ThumbsUp: My first question would be: For a simple single cylinder steam engine, does 15 lbs of steam pressure at the inlet valve give different results than 15 lbs of air pressure?
Jim
I know what your saying Chris. :lolb: What I should of said is: "That would be a great topic for discussion. :ThumbsUp: I'm not asking this question here, but if we had a thread for this question, that I'm not asking here, I would ask does 15 lbs of steam pressure at the inlet valve give different results than 15 lbs of air pressure?" :naughty:
From the video it looks like it would compete in a drag race.A big part of that is that the far track was running slower, the near track going almost twice speed. Rest is since there is the sticky spot in the diff I cranked up the speed to keep it going. It will run much slower.
Wow.
:ThumbsUp:
It looks like a consensus, a new thread it is. I have made a post on the Chatterbox board.Looks to be off and running!
I hope it can be made interesting for all.
MJM460
I got the bearings for the diff turned down a couple thou, it turns very smoothly now. Still need to make up the wheel rig to get both tracks running together consistently, still alternates one and the other. Only had an hour for the shop today, more tomorrow hopefully.
I got the bearings for the diff turned down a couple thou, it turns very smoothly now. Still need to make up the wheel rig to get both tracks running together consistently, still alternates one and the other. Only had an hour for the shop today, more tomorrow hopefully.
If your Shop Elves have a treadmill, maybe you could use that to run the tracks on. ;)
Jim
This sounds like a really interesting trip Chris. Are you going to be able to get online and give us reports as it progresses? I can't wait to hear about the reaction of the Lombard folks up there when they see what you've done.I should be able to get online at the hotels, but won't be able to upload pics or videos till I get back home.
Jim
Could two pulleys and a fan belt under each track make up a make-shift "treadmill" track?I found some rubber covered model tank tread online, have some on order to make up some treadmills. The fan belts could work, but they would have to be thin ones to turn freely and have a softer outside to give grip. I don't have time before the trip to make up that version, will get it done after the trip.
/Peter
Very, very nice Chris. Should that inner chain at the bottom of the tracks turn also?Hi Vince,
Vince
Very impressive! Could you not run the tracks on ball bearings? (By which i mean having a couple of bearings under each track, supporting the inner race and having the track running on the outer race? ) That would offer support i imagine as well as allowing things to run smoothlyNot sure what you mean about the inner/outer races? Do you mean having the ball bearings on shafts, with the hauler tracks sitting on top?
That's looking great Chris. I suspect that the more you run it, the smoother it will get.
Vince
Most excellent Chris!! Enjoy your trip and take lots of pictures please.Count on it! I am planning on doing a full photo survey (with measurements) of their Lombard (I think they actually have a second one on loan, at least they did during the restoration process that they used for duplicating missing parts from, if so will get shots of that too). Also pics/videos of the machines running. Probably will put up an album online of a selection of them.
Bill
Looking great Chris and I do see some binding of the chains causing it to slow down. If you watch the chain you can see it tighten up and the speed slow down. But hey Dog I love it man outstanding.Yup, got a couple of those spots fixed before I packed it up, need to taper the sprocket tooth tips just a little more to get it to center the incoming links better, not bad for first couple of runs though, very happy with it so far. Lots to do when I get home. Meanwhile, back out to the beach before it gets dark!
Don
If its not too late to enquire with the Lombard restorers, Have they had any issues with the seals on top of the valves, any leak past, how much, etc. etc. Regards Paul Gough.I was talking with them Tuesday about the recent inspection and was there when they did a leak test, only spot with any concern this year was the valves at the base of the whistle coming off the steam dome, that had leaks in two places. The rest was good, but that test was with air, not steam. I'll be able to see about leaks tomorrow morning as they steam up, they said it would be several hours to fill and get up pressure.
Sounds like you are having a blast Chris. Will look forward to seeing more pictures and videos whenever you can post them. Things like this trip can really get your batteries charged on a project like yours, especially getting to be in the cab and tending the steering too!! Safe travels home.Thanks Bill and Bob!
Bill
(Tongue in Cheek OT)
How would it do in a tractor pull?
--ShopShoe
Amazing Chris, you are getting things dialed in now and it shows, it doesn't appear that jumpy at all. Just hope you didn't leave oily tracks or you may find yourself in the dog house :)No worries there, the lube I used is a synthetic that dries, no oily residue.
Bill
Wow, Brilliant, great to see it running....All that work has really paid off...now comes some real muscle work rather than letting the electric motors do it all!! Looking forward to it going under steam ! :praise2:
:pinkelephant: :pinkelephant:
Awesome Chris! Just awesome.
My expenditure for popcorn is well paid off. ;D
I found myself with a big grin watching the videos Chris. I can't imagine how big your's was. Your cheeks must ache. I've said it numerous times, I just think that this is such a cool project. Congratulations on a successful test.
-Bob
Chris as usual I am late chimimg in but man that is just awesome and a big grin on your face for sure. Looks like you got the binding out and she runs smooth. Damn Dog .....I........like...... :Love:Thanks Don! I am incredibly pleased with how it is running now, going nice and slow across the floor, steers well, self starting every time, only problem is the face hurting from all the smiling!
Don
For the smokebox door I suggest dummy hinges and bolts except for 4 screws to attach the door to the smokebox. Just remove the entire door for access. Most of the locos at our club do it this way.Thats a possibility. I was leaning towards an internal hinge to make it quick to open/close, handy for quick lighting and checking of the burner (butane fired). I'll see how it works out in next 3d session...
For some reason, I'm no longer receiving automatic notifications of new comments made in this thread. I love what you are doing, and perhaps by reposting in the thread the notifications will start working again.---BrianMaybe your shop elves are intercepting your emails... :Lol:
Just checking in Chris. Will be interesting to see how you tackle the boiler. No doubt with your usual finesse and attention to detail. The drawings look great though!Thanks Bill, looks like I will start cutting and bending copper this week. The end caps will be formed from sheet stock, using the kinds of formers that Kozo shows in his books, and I have sketched up some holders for the boiler tube for securing it in the mill to do all the drilling and boring of holes...
Bill
This thing is just amazing, you do excellent work and do it fast too! I still would like to build one of these someday!Thanks!
Oh! You got started!Wait, where is... Oh, there.. have some popcorn! :popcorn:
I guess I'd better pay better attention. ;D
I'm looking forward to this.
Those sure cleaned up well Chris, have to say they sure look better than they did just after being beaten into shape. Interesting to watch and nice pictures.Yeah they looked pretty grungy at first, the pickle and a scouring pad did wonders! I guessed right on the formers, the caps wound up needing only about 25 or 30 thou taken off to fit the tube. The flanges are back to the original thickness of the plates before forming, still thicker at the bend. Wonderful how the copper will flow around a shape.
Bill
Looking good Chris!!
Bill
An oldie but goodie, we won't say how old :lolb:Maybe WE won't, but I will: 1968, according to this: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Keep_on_Truckin%27_(comics)
Bill
Chris,
Are you going to make a rivet squeezer for the boiler?
Walt
Chris,
Are you going to make a rivet squeezer for the boiler?
Walt
Damn Dog I got the ask the question do you sleep while the elf's make them parts or you watch them.... :lolb: there sure is a lot of parts being made here man for just one person. What you feeding them Dog, it's got to be something good? :lolb: more fine work Chris ....... :praise2:Yeah, hard to sleep with all that racket in the shop...!
Don
Better watch the beer man that might get you in trouble being as them little fellows might get drunk and screw something up..... :lolb: :lolb:Damn Dog I got the ask the question do you sleep while the elf's make them parts or you watch them.... :lolb: there sure is a lot of parts being made here man for just one person. What you feeding them Dog, it's got to be something good? :lolb: more fine work Chris ....... :praise2:Yeah, hard to sleep with all that racket in the shop...!
Don
Started with just the cookies, now I think they are getting into the Belgian beer!
:Lol:
Hi Chris, I am still following along quietly.Nice to have you along for the ride - feel free to follow noisily too! :Lol:
Good grief. Seems like I was just here yesterday.Perfectly normal universe here, with the standard 47.3 hours per day.
You living in some alternative universe with longer days?
(I do know it's an alternative universe...the question is number of hours per day.)
Wait, are you in that silly little world with the blue sky? Oh, my, so sorry!
Still following along Chris. Everything looks great.Thanks Bob!
-Bob
Good work Chris.Thanks Jim, this build is definitely a challenging one, has a bit of everything.
I've filed away so many ideas from this build, that I'm suffering from that not too common disease of: "Filed Away Idea Overload"! :shrug:
Jim
Good work Chris.
I've filed away so many ideas from this build, that I'm suffering from that not too common disease of: "Filed Away Idea Overload"! :shrug:
Jim
Good work Chris.
I've filed away so many ideas from this build, that I'm suffering from that not too common disease of: "Filed Away Idea Overload"! :shrug:
Jim
Well, all I know is that I've forgotten more than I know....... :insane:
Great work on the boiler!!
Pete
I can't keep up either Chris but it sure looks good even if you are in some alternate time continuum :)Thanks Bill, rainy days really help move along a project, just glad I didn't get a house up along Lake Ontario, they are getting washed away up there this year. Even the marinas are under water now.
Bill
Chris you are just smoking along!I would love to see that article.
The rings turned out very nice, love the way you profiled the chimney base.......remember an article in one of the magazines sometime back were the gent had figured out how to machine it......must see if I can find that......or am I just hoping that there was an article....... :old: :headscratch:
Also wondering why you didn't put more cross tubes?
Cheers Kerrin
.......
Also wondering why you didn't put more cross tubes?
Cheers Kerrin
For water tube boilers, yes. But for a fire tube boiler with just the one main tube for the burner (am going to be using a poker type burner in the back end of the main fire tube), are lots of cross tubes common? Too many and it could restrict the flow of hot gasses, too few and it might as well be just the bare tube. Not sure where the sweet spot is for that. The commercially available G1 locos, which are a bit smaller than this one, just use the bare main tube, no cross tubes.
.......
Also wondering why you didn't put more cross tubes?
Cheers Kerrin
Hi Cris,
I do have the same thoughs in my head.
I am not a steam expert but, all the other boiler internals I have seen, seams to have more tubes, which means more surface for heat transfer ?
Hi Chris,Makes sense, thanks!
Like others, I am sure the designs I can remember had more cross tubes. The first one far enough down the tube for the flame to be stable and combustion complete to avoid direct flame impingement, then the others relatively closely spaced, probably determined by the ligament in the main fire tube between the holes. They are not in a straight line, but along a spiral like a very coarse thread giving perhaps half a turn over the remaining length so you can't see clear through. However this does not really give more obstruction than a single tube as each is almost behind the one before and the arrangement might impart a bit of a spiral path. It not only gives more area which is at a premium in fire tube boilers, but the turbulence would give better heat transfer for minimal extra friction. I wish I could be more definitive, I hope Sandy might hop in with more specifics. We want your boiler inspector to pass your boiler, so perhaps it would be worth consulting your local inspector for some guidance.
Still amazed by your work, and look for the next report every day.
MJM460
Looking forward to seeing this progress. These boilers are still a bit of black magic to me.More of a coppery colored magic actually.... :Lol:
Bill
Looking forward to seeing this progress. These boilers are still a bit of black magic to me.
The elves are really on a roll on this build. Just wish they would let me into the actual shop, and not make me watch from behind the glass partition... :ROFL:Looking forward to seeing this progress. These boilers are still a bit of black magic to me.
Same for me. Or rather, all boilers. So I enjoy reading people's threads that build them.
And I don't mean Chris. I'm thinking it's his little helpers doing it. ;D
They do good work. I may have to try and make a better mint chocolate chip cookie recipe and entice some of those helpers to my place.
Hi Chris,Yeah, they are resourceful!
I see in the back ground the boiler flue has a few more cross tubes. The smoke stack came out nice...those elves must be selling the brass swarf & hiring in more help!
Cheers Kerrin
Wow, a very productive weekend Chris. Hope the soldering goes just as well once the wind calms down :)
Bill
Hi Chris,Zzzzzzzzzzz.... Huh? What?? Oh yeah, reading! Yeah!
Man you've had a busy day! Everything is looking great! Can see why you are sitting on the porch...errr......reading was it?
Cheers Kerrin
That's a LOT of soldering Chris!! What are you using for the pickle bath container?? The bathtub?? :lolb:No, yours! :lolb:
Bill
You paying them Elf's overtime Dog? There sure is a lot if work going on here. Some more impressive stuff Chris. Damn .......I...........like........ :Love:
:drinking-41:
Don
Maybe an exchange program. I'll send you my part stealing elves in exchange for part generating ones.
-Bob
Still working at light speed I see, but no loss in quality. Nice looking work Chris. Still following along from the peanut gallery.
Bill
I'll trade you for come cookies :)Deal! Just need to work out the peanut-to-cookie exchange rate...
Bill
If your Elves will work for Peanuts and Mint Chocolate Chip Cookies I have both will also offer shortbread. Will put a fan in the south facing window and let the breeze float over Lake Ontario to entice them to Canada.The elves work for chocolate chip cookies, I also like the peanuts!
Regards,
Gerald.
After lunch, I got the crosstube resoldered, holds full test pressure for 1/2 hour with no seeps or loss now, very happy with it!
After lunch, I got the crosstube resoldered, holds full test pressure for 1/2 hour with no seeps or loss now, very happy with it!
Hmmmm ... He said, she said. I tend to believe the elves :cheers:
Tom
This iz Fritz, the Foreman Shop Elf here in Chris's shop.
This iz Fritz, the Foreman Shop Elf here in Chris's shop.
:lolb: A good German name. I am not surprised.
What does surprise me...is that Fritz goes for the mint chocolate cookies.
Hey Fritz...I've got Lebkuchen. The real stuff.
And Apfel Strudel! The way Omi made it.
Even better the next day.
;D ;D ;D
T has tried to make it. And she comes close, but you have to have Omi's special ingredient. You all know what I mean.
P.S. A half hour? Is that really enough? I'm asking seriously. How long is enough to test at pressure?
As for the pressure test, usual for model is to test it at least 2.5 times the max working pressure, and leave it there for 10 to 15 minutes (standards vary from place to place for pressure and time) to make sure there is no slow leak. Some of the fine seeps can be only a drop or so in a minute, hard to see sometimes.
That's a good point, the extra warmth would raise the pressure beyond what you want. I did mine inside so no problem there.As for the pressure test, usual for model is to test it at least 2.5 times the max working pressure, and leave it there for 10 to 15 minutes (standards vary from place to place for pressure and time) to make sure there is no slow leak. Some of the fine seeps can be only a drop or so in a minute, hard to see sometimes.
When you do that test make sure you don't leave the boiler in the sun ;)
Jo
A great result Chris...no not the cookies though I am sure they are great too...but the fire tube assembly!! Nice going.
Bill
If it's not too deep go fine you a moose and they will clean it right up. Got any moose up your way Chris??
Bill
Sound like you are getting all the leaks sorted out well and fixed Chris. That has to be satisfying!! And its looking great too!!I hope it continues, all the joints in a boiler always makes it a nervous bit of work, not like machining parts to fit and being able to run in a gasket or some sealant to take up a gap.
Bill
Hi Chris,Well, the one seam is 'cracked'! :Lol:
Sounds like you have cracked it! Well done!
On the lake issue, I know a guy here who has a business that contracts to clean them......just saying..
Cheers Kerrin
Chris, my understanding is that the PMR solder is NOT good as a substitute for true silver solder. For one thing the melting point is MUCH lower, and I am not sure it would be compatible with the silver solder you are trying to fill small leaks in , even pinhole ones. You are doing the right thing by resoldering the leaks with real silver solder. The PMR stuff is wonderful for non pressurized piping, fuel tanks, etc., but not for pressurizes applications. As I recall the silver content of the PMR solder is on 4%.I know the melting point is lower, and the strength is too, would never use it for anyplace that needed strength - was just wondering if it would be an easier way to fix a pinhole leak, which is what PMR includes it in the kits for, just sealing the rivetted joint.
Bill
One thing that occurred to me after I got the last leak solved: I remember reading through the instructions on the PMR vertical boiler (I have the kit, never got around to building it yet), which has a rivetted joint at the top and bottom caps rather than the silver soldering. In that kit, they supply soft solder to run in, just as a sealant, on the top/bottom cap seams to the boiler shell. That brings up a question: On the final pinholes on a boiler like the one I am building, where it holds pressure structurally but there is a small seeping hole in a joint, could the soft solder be used to fix that, like they do in the PMR kit? Too late for this project, but curious if that is an acceptable thing, for the next time. Or is that a bad idea for some reason?
Hi Cheris,Thats a good point - heating it up to the silver solder temp would completely melt away any lower temp stuff used for a pinhole patch, requiring that to be done again. And any work in the same place with the high temp solder would need to be cleaned off to bare metal. Thats a good reason to stick with the high temp stuff (stick, solder, get it? :Lol: ). Oh well, just a thought to save time on a future one. Was hoping for a way to avoid all the extra steps that the silver solder needs, but I guess the right way is the right way!
Boy you've been busy! The door is coming on a treat, looking forward to your cunning hinge, like you say getting into smoke boxes to do anything is a mission & the bigger the opening the better!
Now I'm no expert by any means on soldering, & Bill has replied on the strength of the solder you were looking at, so the only other info I've found on using a "soft" solder for boiler making is that it becomes a one way street. Once used you can't use silver solder again as it won't stick, so if the leak gets worse or returns you are stuck with using the soft solder. Although given your talent with silver soldering you should have no problem using silver solder to fix any leaks.....oh yeah that's right you did!
Cheers Kerrin
Looking good Dog!
:cheers:
Don
Hi Chris,That car sounds like it was a lot of fun!
Ooooohhhh Stanley steam car plans..... :P my club had a motor set up in our display shed. Many years back it was decided to put it into a (well I think it was) 2/3rds size Atkinson steam truck. It was fun to drive, the burner wasn't up to the task of keeping the boiler pressure up, so we had to stop for pressure ups, but hay it was part of the fun. The club sold it some years ago, mores the pity, latest news is it is now localish again. The guy has convert d it from LPG fired to wood pellets & from all accounts it now runs better!
The door looks great! Now on the chimney front.....I think I've found the article on making it from solid, cast iron 2 1/2 dia & just under 5 inch long, most of it ending up on the garden! Most of the external was done via the mill for the smokbox curve & the rest on the lathe, EXCEPT for the bottom edge which follows the radius of the smoke box! The gent uses his rotary table set vertical to hold the chimney & attracts it with a flapper disc in the angle grinder & a new 1/2 round file! So sorry not a machining solution, although I'm sure I've read of one but then :old: is creeping up!
Cheers Kerrin
Does the pressure test have to be done at sea level or do i need to rethink my thermodynamics knowledge ?? This is a genuine query actually ??I hope not, I am about 500 feet up above sea level. I ran the pressure up higher than needed anyway, so should be more to the safe side! I would think that the pressure change from a storm going by would change the results that much anyway. Sounds like a good question for the Thermodynamics thread (all good stuff over there, but it reminds me too much of my time reading/writing patents at work, so I tune out quite quickly - perogative of the retired! ).
good progress .... the Beeleigh is all square headed nuts and bolts !!
Ok, ok, I will try and answer it.Its all good stuff, I think it just gives me flashbacks to interminable technical meetings at our research labs, and I have an urge to go boating instead! :cheers:
Pressure testing is not about thermodynamics, it is about the strength of the vessel to contain the pressure. Material is stressed by the difference in pressure inside and outside, and a pressure gauge measures the difference between the pressure inside and outside (that's why it's called gauge pressure) which is just what you need to prove the strength of your boiler.
So it does not matter whether you test your boiler at sea level or at 29,000 ft. Though it is probably not practical to haul your test setup over about 12,00 ft. So even in Denver you are ok! I will go a bit deeper into it when I get to talking about boilers.
Talking about going deeper, you can even go underwater so long as you safely address the issues of how you will breath while you watch the test, and as long as your gauge is measuring the difference between the pressure inside the boiler and outside the boiler.
Sorry you have to tune out on thermodynamics Chris, it was even kicked off by questions on your build thread, which is truly amazing, by the way. Every day you leave me wide eyed at what you have done.
But any suggestions to make the thermodynamics more interesting to you are welcome. And if you only join in when a topic is particularly relevant to you, that is ok too.
MJM460
Hi Chris,Thats a wonderful truck! Be great for running up to the hardware store fir more model parts.
Here's a link to the club newsletter, not from our web page
http://csmee.org.nz/resources/Newsletters/June%202014%20From%20the%20Engine%20Shed.pdf (http://csmee.org.nz/resources/Newsletters/June%202014%20From%20the%20Engine%20Shed.pdf)
Page 8 has some pictures of the truck, including one of the engine.
Cheers Kerrin
Chris, the door is looking great. I love the old square nuts: when we used to find those on old farm equipment we would have to get tools out of Granddaddy's tool box 8) . I thought the non contact side has a bit of a chamfer on them like this one though :thinking:The nuts on the door do have some chamfer filed in as they were filed off, too small to see in the pictures though.
http://ancientpoint.com/imgs/a/j/s/n/d/58___11__x_1__square_head_machine_bolts_with_nuts_plain_steel_made_in_usa_qty___12_1_lgw.jpg (http://ancientpoint.com/imgs/a/j/s/n/d/58___11__x_1__square_head_machine_bolts_with_nuts_plain_steel_made_in_usa_qty___12_1_lgw.jpg)
Still :popcorn: and following along.
Eric
Another productive week obviously from your shop Chris. The smokebox door looks fantastic, that is a very slick way of doing it.Thanks Bill, I don't remember where I first saw that kind of hinge, door on a autoclave or pressure chamber maybe? Simple and completely hidden.
Bill
:whoohoo: Chris,Hmmm... That must make you Barnyard Dawg...!
As Leghorn Foghorn used to say at...." Boy I say boy, I found it, I found it!"
Finally going back thru enuff ME magazines, I found the article on machining the chimney base!
It's in Model Engineer No 4422 January 2012.
Cheers Kerrin
That curved T might need to be printed. Perhaps a Shapeways job?Could a printed part withstand the hot oily steam exhaust? It would have to be the right material.
I presume the door hinge was checked against interference with the blast nozzle.
They print the part in wax and cast it in the material you choose. Cost is per cubic cm, so you can design and upload an STL for free to get a quote.Ooh, interesting, didn't know that was an option. Do you think they could cast it with a core so the curved sections would be hollow? That is the key for this part.
Two 90-degree el fittings machine in the center of the output and soldered might work as well.
Chris,Interesting. Just went and looked at their web site, looks like this fitting could be made quite easily there. I would prefer to be able to make it myself, so will try it first, but it looks like a great backup. Going to keep them in mind for future stuff - thanks!
They use a 3D printer to print the part and it can be hollow, you have to obey the thickness rules for the material. The wax is then investment cast which also works with hollow parts as the investment will fill the void. The bronze is 90% copper 10% tin so that is my usual choice. I have had casting numbers put on 7/8" Shay truck boxes and it looks great.
Dan
Hi Chris.Great to have you along on the build. Next part, the exhaust manifold, should be an interesting one too, think I know how it will be done as a two piece shell.
I have been following along since day one of the build. I have picked up so many tips and machining setups along the way. A very unique and outstanding build.
gbritnell
As an exercise in Solidworks, I modeled the T. I uploaded it to Shapeways, and the cost to cast it in either bronze or brass is $14. As modeled, I set the wall thickness to .015", which they gave a warning about. Should be about .025" minimum. The tubes are .25" diameter so that could be adjusted to fit the scale.Very slick! If the home built one fails, will give them a try. Imagine submitting the entire model... Instant kit! Very interesting to have a service like that. Opens up all sorts of things...
I also submitted a half section thinking that two could be soldered together, but the price each was the same.
It would probably not cost much to add the three flanges and save that part of the job.
Not sure how it would be done in Inventor, but in SW it's 2 sweeps and 2 sweep cuts.
:ThumbsUp: :ThumbsUp:Should be going on steam sometime in July...!
Oh man Chris, this thing is really looking the part! I can't wait to see it running on steam!
Fantastic work!
John
If you are going to the trouble of making a swept tee, shouldn't the elbow be swept too? (Actually the velocities and losses in scale pipes are quite small, and a plain tee would probably make a difference it would be hard to measure.)You are right, the elbow on the original engine is swept, but it is a very tight curve. At he scale size it could be made to look the same on the outside with just some sanding on the back corner. I'll see how the big one goes first!
Looking forward to seeing how you do this bit Chris. Will be easier to follow with pictures.
Bill
Damn Chris that is one bad ass Machine Dog! You just keep making this thing look more and more attractive and unique. Fantastic craftsmanship bud and ........I .........like.......... :Love:
:drinking-41:
Don
Actually that's not what I suggested. My idea was to take a piece of regular tube bent at a 90 degree angle or else a regular cast el. Then machine a flat down the center of one leg. Repeat and solder the two together.Gotcha - I misunderstood about what you said about the join line, sorry! :Doh:
Spent some time this evening getting my pages converted from referencing photos on PhotoSuckit to PostImage.org, which so far is still free and ad free, and allows linking. Made up a little program to search the image number on the other sites list, and convert the text - handy to be a programmer sometimes. Still some manual work, and it only is set up for my naming conventions, so not generally useful to others, unfortunately. But, have 10 of 35 pages done, another couple sessions and I will tell PB to go suck swarf.
I've noticed today that their site is getting bogged down worse than usual, and sometimes it would not even let me see my own images.
Chris, the nameplate and holder look fantastic!! That alone adds a lot to the front end of the engine!! I have tried etching before, and though I got decent results, it's not an exact science by any means. Your vendor did a very nice job and if the cost is reasonable, that is the way to go!!Thanks Bill, I am very pleased with the job they did, the letters are way too small to hand cut.
Bill
Wow Chris! This is looking cooler and cooler all the time! And has been said before, you make incredible progress! I'll be doing the boiler on my steam tractor soon and I've learned a lot watching your boiler making process. (and by soon, I mean sometime over the next year :) ).After getting used to the look of the narrow boiler by itself, it looks drastically different with the tank framework on it, will be even more different when its skin is on. I can't wait to see it with the cab.
Kim
Hey Chris, just a thought. I can still upload to the aforementioned bastards, so lets load them up with GIGO. We can give them the garbage and they can just keep itNow there's a fun idea! Upload videos of the fireplace or dancing kitties... Just don't go over the storage limit where they charge you or delete.... :stir:
Cletus
Hi Chris,
Really looking great, and completely changes the look of that boiler as you said.
May I suggest filing or machining drain groves in the lower edge of those intermediate cross pieces in the bottom of each side of the tank. The pieces in the picture will make the tank fifficulty to drain when you finish running.
Looking forward to seeing the skins attached.
MJM460
Hi Chris, using the tanks only for insulation is a good idea. It will be interesting to see how that valve works. Injectors seem pretty common in locomotives, especially in the larger models. At least they are often written about, including some quite good books on the subject. However other comments in the modelling press imply that they are a bit of a black art, and some have the touch, while others "prefer" a hand pump in the tender or an axle pump. But I guess you will not have a tender.Yeah, no tender for the Lombards. The Goodall valve works very well, I have them on my Gauge-1 locos, as do most of the guys in the local club. Accucraft makes a great set, pump bottle and valve. In the US, got mine through The Train Department, they carry most of the brands. Surprising how well it can pump against 60 or 80 psi in a boiler, you just hold the tapered plug into the top of the valve and squeeze the lever on the pump bottle. Makes a good squirt gun too!
MJM460
Dog, Dog...I am just at awe man.. I leave for a couple of days and this is some amazing stufff man. Your a true craftsman with all these setup and ideas you been coming up with. Did I say .....I........like........ :Love:Thanks Don, just copying how you made the tank to store your model crawfish!!
:drinking-41:
Don
Injectors were very common on fullsize locos, and practically standard on traction engines. Since a locomotive needs two water supply means, injectors were usually supplanted by steam driven pumps.Why do locos need two? Volume, or just a backup? On the Lombard I saw, they did have a pair of injectors, each could be turned on independently.
I have two on my 1.5x scale loco, but I think any smaller they don't scale well.
Always need two (or more) sources of water. Sometimes one doesn't work, and then the only option without a backup is to kill the fire. Not as critical with the tractors. Other types of pumps are powered by an eccentric on the axle or by the crosshead/piston, but these work only when in motion. With these pumps the piping is such that most of the time the water is just pumped back into the tender until a cutoff valve forces it towards the boiler. On my loco the design was for an axle pump. I put the eccentric on the axle but didn't build the pump, opting for the injectors instead.Good info, thanks!
Water is pumped to the front of the boiler to keep the cooler water from the tender away from the firebox.
Looking good C...do you use some sort of solvent to really clean up the metal to give really good adhesion for the JD weld, i had noticed that when i use it it sometimes breaks away ..very annoying........??I've only used it a few times, use alcohol to remove any oil, and some 60 grit to give it some tooth. Don't know if there is a particular prep primer or anything, good thing to Google, or check tneir website.
The cab looks good Chris, as does the painted up boiler and saddle tank. Are you using hi-temp paint?I have a couple of different ones, both automotive and the grill paint type. The only place that will be really hot is the smokebox and stack. There are some engine and exhaust paints and coatings that will take much higher temperature, but they require a special curing process that I am not set up for.
Bill
Man this thing is just too cool. I hope to see this thing in person all together. Awesome work!Hopefully this year I can make it to Cabin Fever again!
That looks great Chris. Is the wood pre-finished or will that be done once all the cab is together?I wont paint the wood till its all together. Some of the old Lombard pictures show the cabs as raw wood, some painted. I am modelling this one after nbr 38 up in Maine, so t will be painted black like the original is. The side panels on the woodbox are sheet metal on it, will use the same copper sheet from the saddle tank for the model.
Bill
Looking good Chris! seems a shame top paint the wood but if that is the way the prototype was, I understand your reasoning.Yeah, some looked like this one:
Bill
Well I still like the natural graying of the wood (MicroMark sells an aging stain for that), but I definitely prefer the one you are modeling; those tires on the first one look totally out of place.Those tires are just so they can move it as needed, definitely not original, the skids for it are underneath. That particular engine is unrestored, but is still functional. They move it on compressed air occasionally to keep it freed up, but the boiler is the original and not certified any more (probably would need to be replaced). The museum got it on loan from the family that owns it to use as a reference when restoring their nbr 38 machine. The museum did not have the original wheels either, the students welded up the steel ones during the restoration.
Bill
The bell is a nice touch on the second photo, like you are building.There will be a working bell just like it on the model too!
Damn, beyond words I am.Finally, a way to get people to stop talking on their cell phone! :lolb: Awful lot of work though... :ROFL:
-Bob
Angle brass? Gotta be a name like 'angle iron' for brass stock... :headscratch:
Hey Chris,Thanks very much! Its been a lot of fun so far, and glad to have you along for the ride.
Reading back through this thread and viewing your photos and others about this machine, I stopped to think what it must have been like to ride this beast through the forest. Scary, heart pounding and a ride as rough as a cob, but boy what an experience.
For you to take the time to research the details and then put your creative ability to re-create this beautiful old wonderful piece of equipment deserves a special Thank you, and another thank you for sharing it with us.
Cool, Chris.It is difficult to recognize that it is a model.Thanks!
Phenomenal work Chris! I dare say it should probably end up in a museum some day.
gbritnell
That adds even more wonderful detail Chris!! It looks like in the full size picture that the back slats are more permanently fixed with only the side once being able to swing down. Is that the case?You are correct - however, since the roof of the model comes off with the cab, I had to hinge the back section as well. One (more) minor change from the original. Getting the shop elf/engineer to bolt/unbolt that top set of brackets every time I wanted to remove the cab would have cost me SO many more cookies!!
Bill
That makes sense yes. Does the whole cab come off for operation or just the roof to allow access to the controls, valves, etc.?
Bill
Those family shots just get better and better Chris!!!Thanks Bill! The last big visual change will be when I get the box seat and floor in for the steersman. It has changed a lot just in the last couple of weeks.
Bill
Getting more impressive daily, also i like the figured Maple ? on the table, would get a few violin necks from it !!
Chris, do you know how much it will weigh when completed?It is about 26 pounds right now, figure there is at most another couple pounds to add on for the rest of the parts. Quite a bit less than the Shay model, which was around 50 to 54 pounds.
Thanks Don, though some bad news to report. Apparently TenneseeWhiskey sent my shop elves the recipe for some moonshine, and they fermented some cookies and York peppermint patties into a peppermint schnappes, and had a little party. It all went well till they took the corner too fast, and rolled the Lombard over coming down the hill:Hi Chris,
:facepalm: :paranoia:
(https://s5.postimg.org/cumpxr3rb/IMG_0799.jpg)
:lolb:
Actually, I just turned it on its side to get easier access to the nuts and bolts that hold the cab floor to the frame! :) The floor is far enough along, I hope, that it can be bolted in now. The only things to be done to it now are to bolt in things like the butane tank and radio, and that can be done with a hand drill.
I got some coats of paint on the woodbox slots, here are some overall views of how it looks now:
(https://s5.postimg.org/8wzg8cgxz/IMG_0802.jpg)
(https://s5.postimg.org/3kalu7t1j/IMG_0804.jpg)
Next parts to go, I think I will alternate between work on the steam piping/manifold on the backhead, and making up the rest of the ironwork on the cab: ladders, holders for the slats and doors, handrails, that sort of fiddly stuff. Then on to the whistle valve and whistle (going to make one about 4 to 6 inches long that will tuck under the firebox, will give it a deeper sound than the scale size one, which would call all the chipmunks in the area). I have some RC boat events coming up for the next few weeks, which will slow things down. Also, coming up on August 9-12 there is a steam pageant down in the Finger Lakes region near here that is a lot of fun - they have a building with models on display (running on compressed air), plus LOTS of traction engines and tractors running around, along with sawmill/shingle mill, plowing, construction equipment playing in the dirt piles out back. Great show. If you are near western NY state, come on out. I'll be there, probably either Thursday or Friday - let me know if you can make it up and we can meet up.
http://www.pageantofsteam.org/ (http://www.pageantofsteam.org/)
Hi Chris,
Any chance you could post some photos of your model boats?
Regards,
Gerald.
You have been busy, Your shot of the Sabino confirms something I had suspected. We have meet years back when you and your Mon used to come up to the Metro Marine Modelers Regattas, am I right?
Regards,
Gerald Gardiner.
Clever arrangement Chris. Will there be a floor between the two seats for stoking the boiler?Yes, look back at the picture in post 1792, you can see the lower center section of the floor. On the real boiler the firebox door is just above that lower floor. They raised the side floors to give room for the tracks to pivot, which accounts for the odd floor shapes.
Bill
Yep, I see it now, thanks.Since they used off the shelf boilers (Ames mfg) on a new shape machine, things like the cab came out a bit odd, but functional.
Bill
Nice work on the manifold.Yes, that's the butane tank for the burner. Its just set there for now, but it's about where it will go. I'm using off the shelf parts for the tank, burner, etc. from gauge 1 locos. It should have enough oomph for this boiler, but if not I can upgrade the burner. The tank will be hidden under a fake woodpile that can be lifted off in one piece.
What is the yellow tank in the last pic? Is that the butane gas?
John
Hopefully there were no casualties ;) Looks like a beautiful day at the pond though. Did the shop elves behave themselves in your absence??
Bill
Warn the shop elves that you haven't lived until you have ha a Goose use the deck of your model as an aircraft carrier.
Gerald.
Chris I hope you took your fly rod with you, nice looking lake. I use to be into R/C boating and made several boats out of aluminum.
Those are some great pictures Chris, but I have to say, the guy doing the wood turning with gloves on is scary as hell!! A definite NO-NO!!!Professional doesn't always mean smart!
Bill
Professional doesn't always mean smart!
Not obvious to some professionals... :Lol:QuoteProfessional doesn't always mean smart!
Obviously
Bill
Nice Chris. Should sound even better with steam too. Would love to hear it, maybe a short audio file or something.Hi Bill,
Bill
Chris, that sounds great with just lung power, should be louder and maybe a pitch or two higher under pressure.It should sound simaler to the one on my Shay, which is almost the same size. Quite a bit louder under real pressure - I've been called a blowhard at some meetings, but I'm not up to 60psi, unless I get REALLY mad...!
Chris--I have never heard of a "chuffer" before. What does it actually do, and did full size train steam engines have them?They are made by a company in the UK called Summerlands, to add a better Chuff Chuff sound to small model live steam locos. They are sort of like a whistle in shape, and when placed on the end of the exhaust tube in the stack they act as a resonator to increase the volume of the sound. They come in a variety of sizes, tuned to the engine and stack size. Mechanically easy to make, the art is in sizing them. They now have a version with adjustment to the sound. I have them on my factory made G1 locos, sound change is quite dramatic. I made one for my Corliss twin, without it it is almost silent.
And when it is running on steam it should have even more pop to the sound.Just wrote up the final punch list, only 15 items on it to complete the model, assuming nothing comes up in steam trials. Looking like completion in August, not bad for starting it all last October!
Not too long now, just a bunch of little things to finish up.
Wow, Chris! I'm going to be following you on this one for sure! :popcorn:And to answer Kim's post nbr 2 on this thread from last October, yes I have been working on a book for this build, with full plans and photos. No guarantees that the deal will go through, or when, but if it doesn't work out I will still publish plans for it somehow. Plans are all complete and just the last couple chapters to finish off.
If you choose to put out a set of drawings, or even a book based on your build, I'll buy it from you!
You don't think small, do you Chris? This is going to be fascinating!
Kim
Hi Chris,Yeah, hate to see this one end too, but there are several more project ideas in the queue at all times!
I am sure like all others that are following this build, quite anxious to see it completed and running and just hear it in operation. However, I also hate to seen it end.
Thomas
No casualties among the surface vessels I hope. Would be a shame to blow a Chris-Craft out of the water ::)They did have one boat hit some debris out in the lake, it was able to make it back to the launch before sinking though. Wasn't one of our torpedoes, promise!
Bill
Hi, you could have gold leafed it!!!!
Hi Chris, sorry that you could not attend that event. That had to be something special to see and hear both of those machines in operation. The second video sent chills up and down my body.I'll be there for the two day event in the fall, should be running the model near the real one. Can't wait!
Thanks,
Thomas
Very nice videos. Thanks for re-posting them here CHris. The IC engine sure did simplify things a lot didn't it?Sure did. Amazing how quickly things evolved in vehicles around then.
Bill
Not to mention instant power, no waiting on the fire and boiler pressure buildup!!I recently purchased a copy of the 1925 catalog from the Willamette Iron Works, which made steam donkey engines and logging winches for the Pacific Northwest logging industry. They also sold gas and electric versions, but the steam ones sold well long after gas ones came out, since they could run for long periods way out in the mountains with no need to truck in fuel and were very dependable. Interesting how things coexisted, depending on the local conditions. It has pictures of the donkey engines winching themselves through the woods and even across creeks.
Bill
Just trying to catch up Chris and I'm not doing a good job. There's so much!Good to see you back around Carl! I'm not going to be posting much for a few days, got an RC submarine event starting so you will have till Tuesday to get caught up! Coming down to the final handfull of parts for the build, I lost track of the number of parts along about 2500 of them...!
I caught the section on the whistle. Nice!
Not to mention instant power, no waiting on the fire and boiler pressure buildup!!I recently purchased a copy of the 1925 catalog from the Willamette Iron Works, which made steam donkey engines and logging winches for the Pacific Northwest logging industry. They also sold gas and electric versions, but the steam ones sold well long after gas ones came out, since they could run for long periods way out in the mountains with no need to truck in fuel and were very dependable. Interesting how things coexisted, depending on the local conditions. It has pictures of the donkey engines winching themselves through the woods and even across creeks.
Bill
That catalog has that story, with pictures of it crossing the river!Not to mention instant power, no waiting on the fire and boiler pressure buildup!!I recently purchased a copy of the 1925 catalog from the Willamette Iron Works, which made steam donkey engines and logging winches for the Pacific Northwest logging industry. They also sold gas and electric versions, but the steam ones sold well long after gas ones came out, since they could run for long periods way out in the mountains with no need to truck in fuel and were very dependable. Interesting how things coexisted, depending on the local conditions. It has pictures of the donkey engines winching themselves through the woods and even across creeks.
Bill
There's a story out here of a donkey winching itself across the Mckenzie River ( https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/McKenzie_River_(Oregon (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/McKenzie_River_(Oregon)) ) A head of stream was built up and the thing turned loose. When the firebox went under water, there was still enough steam to pull itself on across the river.
Willamette Iron Works was in Portland Oregon.........about 60 miles from where I live.
Jim
PS: The lantern looks good Chris.
Chris,Excellent! We got the tent and tables up today, I was running my minisub this afternoon, we'll be there about 7 or 8am, there all day (and most of Sunday). Weather looks perfect, usually 90s, today it was 67! Hope to see you then.
If I understood correctly, I believe you'll be at the Fun Run tomorrow. I plan on driving over there tomorrow AM to see what goes on. I read something that said the Indy Admirals will be sailing their scale boats in the morning. I'll try to find you and say hi.
--Tim
Chris,Excellent! We got the tent and tables up today, I was running my minisub this afternoon, we'll be there about 7 or 8am, there all day (and most of Sunday). Weather looks perfect, usually 90s, today it was 67! Hope to see you then.
If I understood correctly, I believe you'll be at the Fun Run tomorrow. I plan on driving over there tomorrow AM to see what goes on. I read something that said the Indy Admirals will be sailing their scale boats in the morning. I'll try to find you and say hi.
--Tim
Chris
Should be posted Tuesday. :cheers:Chris,Excellent! We got the tent and tables up today, I was running my minisub this afternoon, we'll be there about 7 or 8am, there all day (and most of Sunday). Weather looks perfect, usually 90s, today it was 67! Hope to see you then.
If I understood correctly, I believe you'll be at the Fun Run tomorrow. I plan on driving over there tomorrow AM to see what goes on. I read something that said the Indy Admirals will be sailing their scale boats in the morning. I'll try to find you and say hi.
--Tim
Chris
I'm looking forward to the pictures! ;)
Jim
Very cool, Chris!There were two seaviews there, one was about 6 or 7 feet long! I have a kit for one, not built yet. I won one of the Moebius flying sub kits in the raffle the first day. Moebius models makes a couple versions of the Seaview, I have their 39-inch kit. Other makers have made them lots bigger, usually in fiberglass. Most of the subs there this week were in the 3'-4' range, smallest was about a foot long - tight space for a radio and motor. My Delphin minisub is 19" long, the Alfa 49".
The Flying sub gave me flash backs! Had anybody made the Seaview for it to dock in? :Lol:
Kim
Nice photos, Chris. Glad the weather turned out so nice for you. It was good to meet you out there Saturday. Neat stuff!Glad you were able to stop out and see us!
--Tim
Any of those subs have working torpedos?None that day, but there are ones that run off co2 cartridges. Kevin launched a few volleys of missiles from his boomer.
Maybe you could make one powered by steam. :Lol:
Very cool Chris. Any chance of some videos?I didn't take any videos this time, too busy running my subs - was in ghe water pretty much all day long. Others were videoing, including one guy from a quadcopter, will post links when they come around.
Once I retire, I'll have to come up sometime and join you and yourelvesantics.
Maybe bring some of T's cookies so you know what a real cookie is. ;D
So, are you coming to see my antics or the elves antics?! We do egg each other on a lot... :cheers:
Just realized that the steam pageant in Canandaigua starts tomorrow, am going Thursday morning. More fun!
Here it is, its at the north end of the lake, couple miles south of the NY thruway. Great event, lots of traction engines trundling around, early gas and Diesel tractors, farm and construction equipment. Big flea market and displays of small engines, some models too. They have a big stationary engine and usually a shingle mill and saw mill.So, are you coming to see my antics or the elves antics?! We do egg each other on a lot... :cheers:
Just realized that the steam pageant in Canandaigua starts tomorrow, am going Thursday morning. More fun!
That would be the main elf of course. ;D
Any link to Canandaiqua? I have no idea what that is.
That looks like a HUGE showgrounds Chris. Would take a few days just to get around it all :oIts definitely doable in a day, unless you go through all the tractors in detail. Logs of walking, but weather looks good for it.
Bill
Here it is, its at the north end of the lake, couple miles south of the NY thruway. Great event, lots of traction engines trundling around, early gas and Diesel tractors, farm and construction equipment. Big flea market and displays of small engines, some models too. They have a big stationary engine and usually a shingle mill and saw mill.So, are you coming to see my antics or the elves antics?! We do egg each other on a lot... :cheers:
Just realized that the steam pageant in Canandaigua starts tomorrow, am going Thursday morning. More fun!
That would be the main elf of course. ;D
Any link to Canandaiqua? I have no idea what that is.
http://www.pageantofsteam.org
"reverse control lever" - Johnson bar https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Johnson_Bar_(locomotive (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Johnson_Bar_(locomotive))
From those shots it's really hard to tell the scale - could be the real thing!Thanks Simon! Doesn't seem like it has been better part of a year already! Time flies when you're having fun! (Or as Kermit said, Times fun when you're eating flies!)
Seems like only yesterday you were making those tracks too :-)
Simon.
Looking good Chris. Still watching, just quietly at the moment. Too many irons in the fire...lol.Pick an iron, take it to the anvil, and make something good from it!
Bill
You need a hobby Chris.Seventeen hobbies really isn't enough, is it?!
:lolb:
You need a hobby Chris.Seventeen hobbies really isn't enough, is it?!
:lolb:
:Lol:
Hi Chris,I do have one of the big SeaView kits from the anniversary sale Moebius had a year or two ago, don't have a Sea Quest sub. That was a more organic shape as I recall? The next boat project is going to be a Green Sea Turtle, with articulated flippers and head, will be carving up the wood masters then making moulds from that to cast hull in fiberglass and flippers and head in rubber. That will be this winter.
That brings back OLD :old: memory's, Now you just need to get it to fly!
Just see we are going to get Sea Quest re-runs......you got one of those tucked away?
Cheers Kerrin
A tight fit in there, but an interesting idea.Yes, the WTCs are made from 2" polycarbonate tube and sheet for the endcaps, silicone sheet gaskets, and with brass threaded inserts (cross pinned at the bottom) to take the screws. The through hull fittings for the control rods and drive shaft were made from 303 stainless hex, and have viton o ring seals.
A silly question, but did you make those water tight chambers for the equipment in the sub?
Tom
Hi Chris,I remember watching the show when it first came out, you should enjoy it. Sort of a Star trek ith dolphins and subs!
Only seen the shorts so far, cant remember back when it was on, but yes it does look a bit organic.
Look forward to the pictures of the turtle!
Cheers Kerrin
So, now you need a wee log wagon behind it, with a radio controlled log loader near the mini wood pile, so you can bring in the firewood without getting cold.Last spring I picked up a copy of a book from the University of Maine that has plans in the back for the log sleds and the Rutter they used to maintain the ice trails, maybe this winter I'll get those made, mostly wood so a quick build.
Looks great and I am sure it will run well.
Tom
Great outdoor shots Chris, shame about the union but just a minor kink.Yup - not a big deal, something like that was bound to need a tweak!
Bill
You are close not Chris....keep after it :)Yup - always a few little things to sort out on a project this big, not surprising with 2500+ parts!
Bill
This is really fun watching this come together! :)... And apart... And together.... :Lol:
Jim
This is really fun watching this come together! :)... And apart... And together.... :Lol:
Jim
Looking Really good and i admire the speed with your work, it has taken me since October 2014 since i started on the Beeleigh engine !!awaiting the steam up with excitement !!
Phenomenal!
Well worth the trip of following along.
Congratulations Chris. Go have a victory cookie.
-Bob
.Thanks Nick!
Amazing build and really well documented so that others can admire and benefit from your large and varied skill-set. :)
Soooooooooooooooooooooo. .................. What's next for you to make. You decided.? ;D
Nick
Congratulations Chris, what a great achievement. I have been quietly following from the beginning, only last October.The part count went up pretty quickly on the days working on the tracks and especially the chains, which were mass produced with jigs and fixtures. I was still surprised at how quickly the total went up!
I think you said over 2500 parts, from your first post I think 300 days, about eight parts each day. Truly amazing, I am doing well if I do one part in a day, and definitely not two days in a row.
I have particularly appreciated your documentation of the process, it has been a master class from the beginning, not only how to set up and make things, but also how to document the process, thank you. I have learned so much from your work.
Coming in from the Internet free areas now and hope to be back on more thermodynamics soon, perhaps Monday.
MJM460
Hi Chris,THATS why they were packing all those cookies in the picnic basket! :Lol:
That is cool!
Can hear the elves jumping for joy from here! Bet they are planning a trip down the street.....
Cheers Kerrin
Phenomenal!I did. Then several more! ^-^
Well worth the trip of following along.
Congratulations Chris. Go have a victory cookie.
-Bob
Whew that is a list of projects, are you going to be posting any any or all of them? The Crawler looks fantastic, are you going to do a run with it in the snow?.Thanks Nick!
Amazing build and really well documented so that others can admire and benefit from your large and varied skill-set. :)
Soooooooooooooooooooooo. .................. What's next for you to make. You decided.? ;D
Nick
The next couple projects are in the woodshop, I have a 80% complete carousel horse that I am finishing for a friend after the man who started it passed away. He had the legs and body are pretty much complete, and I am going to redo the neck/head since his start on it did not come out well at all. After that there is another RC submarine that I want to do, an RC sea turtle! Going to carve masters out of wood, then use those to make moulds for a fiberglass shell and rubber flippers and head, which will be articulated.
As for the next steam project, I have a few in the planning stage - have plans for a Stanley Steamer car engine (and possibly full car) model, and am still working on getting internal pictures and measurements of a Marion Model 91 steam shovel that is sitting outside a quarry about 15 miles from here.
So, no lack of future projects...
Maybe if we get a day with the driveway hard packed, the model is too heavy (30ish pounds) to ride on top. I may have to build one of the rutters they made to shape the road!Whew that is a list of projects, are you going to be posting any any or all of them? The Crawler looks fantastic, are you going to do a run with it in the snow?.Thanks Nick!
Amazing build and really well documented so that others can admire and benefit from your large and varied skill-set. :)
Soooooooooooooooooooooo. .................. What's next for you to make. You decided.? ;D
Nick
The next couple projects are in the woodshop, I have a 80% complete carousel horse that I am finishing for a friend after the man who started it passed away. He had the legs and body are pretty much complete, and I am going to redo the neck/head since his start on it did not come out well at all. After that there is another RC submarine that I want to do, an RC sea turtle! Going to carve masters out of wood, then use those to make moulds for a fiberglass shell and rubber flippers and head, which will be articulated.
As for the next steam project, I have a few in the planning stage - have plans for a Stanley Steamer car engine (and possibly full car) model, and am still working on getting internal pictures and measurements of a Marion Model 91 steam shovel that is sitting outside a quarry about 15 miles from here.
So, no lack of future projects...
Regards,
Gerald.
Simply awesome Chris. Super model. :ThumbsUp: :ThumbsUp:
And you had a good question..."real or model?". It is hard to tell.
I'm hoping you get onto the Stanley Steamer (full car) soon. :stickpoke:
Simply awesome Chris. Super model. :ThumbsUp: :ThumbsUp:
And you had a good question..."real or model?". It is hard to tell.
I'm hoping you get onto the Stanley Steamer (full car) soon. :stickpoke:
I thought you were going to build me one in your new shop, as your first project?! :stickpoke:
I am surprised the Elves did not hijack the Hauler when they heard that tree go down.They tried, but they forgot that I held the remote control for the steering! :Lol:
Looking great.
Gerald.
Zee, I know you are lobbying for the Stanley steam car, maybe I'll start that one while drawing up the full plans for the Marion... Or not... Send cookies, maybe we can talk about it!
Elf-pucky! He's on to me! :ROFL:Zee, I know you are lobbying for the Stanley steam car, maybe I'll start that one while drawing up the full plans for the Marion... Or not... Send cookies, maybe we can talk about it!
Sure. Right. I didn't fall off the turnip truck yesterday.
I send cookies.
Your mouth full.
And you think you can talk? :lolb:
Oh. Talk after the cookies?
Sure. Right.
You'll just want more cookies.
I know this game. ;D
Yes congratulations Chris on a great build.......The gears inside the large gear in the differential are just for side to side tracking, and do not matter to straight line running. In a straight line run, the bevel gears are locked in position with each other.
Have re-read from post #1, [however may have missed]......but what is the speed reduction ratio?......either in steps from the engine crank to the first gear set....then from the second to the final chain drive reduction? etc.........
Figure 2 plan view is the first gear drive/differential simply a 9:40? reduction [Items 39:38] and the actual chain drive reduction ~~7:32? [items 30 to 59]......[Items numbers from the drawn sketch Figure 2 and 2 from post #1]
So could this reduction be somewhere in the 16:1 final ratio?
Derek
Absolutely Fantastic - Congratulations ! Have followed since day one.Thanks Larry! It was wild to see it take off the first time. Still have a little way to go to call it complete, final tweaks and new burner, but it has been a really fun week!
Excellent work Chris. It is running well and looks great. Have the boys that work on the full scale ones seen it yet?Yes - I sent them the video as well. I'll be taking the model up there this fall for their Living History Days event too.
Tom
looking great and the sound track is quite appropriate as well !! you could take low action videos with the tree felling in the background,!! that would be really cool !!
100% behind the shovel! Like the Lombard a shovel has been on my bucket list. Hey you already know how to make the tracks!"Bucket" list? :Lol:
Great work on the log hauler!!
Hmm, keep everyone happy, a Stanley steamer with a backhoe on the bumper??
Hi Chris,That looks like a Stanley engine, or one like it. Yours?
Well done love it! Going to miss the updates!
As to the next project.......
Cheers Kerrin
Hi Kerrin - that's way to big to be a model :o ;)Looks to be the full size Stanley or Locomobile engine, for the full size car. Those engines are not all that large, compared to a mill or ship engine, but they have a distinctive shape to the frame so they fit up inside the suspension.
It could easily power a small boat, workshop etc.
Still a nice project though :)
Best wishes
Per
Got in a test run today on the Lombard, and better than previous run, still needs work. I am not at all happy with the gaskets on the cylinders, think I need to redo them. They were made from the same fiber material I used before, I thought, but its not working that well, and am getting leaks up the bolt holes (hate when that happens!). Maybe try another material, or use some hi temp rtv maybe.Think I found out what happened with the gaskets, looks like I cut it from the wrong roll, found the better stuff I got for the Corliss engine. This time I am trying some thin viton sheet stock I have, got one cylinder done, the other one is pulled and ready to modify.
Did you mean to post a picture or video?Nope, no new video. :shrug:
If you did...it didn't take.
If you didn't... :ThumbsDown:
;D
Awesome Chris.Only one planned is to the fall event at the logging museum in Maine in October.
Taking it to a show? It would certainly be an attraction.
What causes the burner to make that Howling?Something about the pattern of holes in the tube, not sure what. They are known for it in the G1 locos they are made for. The larger firetube on this model makes it resonate more, its even louder than the smaller models. I've read that people put a (titanium?) mesh screen over them which cures the noise. It will be interesting to see if the new one Jason is making me has the same thing. It will have 4 rows vs 3 rows of holes, longer, and with a larger nozzle size. Hope to get if in a couple of weeks. In the meantime I am getting work done on a friend's carousel horse that a friend of theirs started but passed away before finishing. It needs some detail work on the body and a new head and neck. I am ready to attach the legs and tail, sand and prime, then start the head.
Gerald.
Ok Chris,Its common on the factory made Gauge 1 burners, with the larger firetube its even louder. It will be interesting to see how the bigger burner sounds.
With a howl like that I think I would try making my own burner. First a copy of the original to see if it howled too, then start modifying it to see what changes does what. I had read on some of the train forum about burner howl, but didn't realize how loud it was (I could clearly hear it and I am deaf in one ear and don't hear too well out the other). I have made a few burners out of the small camping stoves and lanterns, but they have been ether under the boiler type or torch types.
Regards,
Gerald.
PS Lazarus Long is one of my favorite characters by Robert A Heinlein
For those of you poor deprived souls that aren't Heinlein fans.Don't your shop elves have a Puppeteer to help them? :Lol:
TANSTAAFL = There Ain't No Such Thing As A Free Lunch.
From the sound of it we could probably get an interesting discussion going about the man's books.
Don
Hi Chris,I think it is loosening up a bit, but the elves keep leaving peanut shells and spilled beer on the cab floor!
Use to consume his books as fast as I could get my hands on them, haven't read one in years!
Oh the Hauler is looking good, do you think it's freeing up a bit with the elves going for practice runs?
Cheers Kerrin
Hi Chris,
Use to consume his books as fast as I could get my hands on them, haven't read one in years!
I had re-read several of them earlier in the year, many quite good ones.Hi Chris,
Use to consume his books as fast as I could get my hands on them, haven't read one in years!
Me too. Now I'm thinking it's been enough years I've forgotten the stories. Time to re-read!
'Stranger in a Strange Land' is my favorite Heinlein.
'Stranger in a Strange Land' is my favorite Heinlein."The Moon is a Harsh Mistress" and "Starship Troopers" both for the mechanical aspects, of the later ones "Friday"
Didn't somebody say something about B-17 pics :)Yup, I got the video clips assembled but need to edit it and get it uploaded, and pick out the best photos. Been over at my mother's house, getting her out for lunch, walks, and stores. Should have pics later today!
Bill
8)Oh yes, the ammo and bombs are inert! Wouldn't want to ruin a wonderful day by perforating anything nearby! :o
At first I thought I hope that is not live ammo they have on display there, then I realised where she is… I sure hope they have made sure that the safety cannot be disengaged if one of the passengers gets overly enthusiastic ;) .
Jo
P.S. Just been reminded why I hate image hosting sites :ShakeHead:
Thanks for the great video Chris. I need to get a ride the next time they bring her around here.I've been there to see the Lancaster, and seen them fly at air shows, would be great fun to go up in one!
There's nothing quite like the sound those 4 big Pratt & Whitneys make when they run them up.
Next, we need to go up to Ontario where they give Lancaster rides. See what it's like to go behind 4 Merlins!
--Tim
thats the trouble then the most corrosive liquid all it wants to do is regain its lost minerals ( distilled water ) thats why you must not drink it, it pulls the minerals out of your stomach , thing like to be in equilibriumYou think there might have been some flux crystals or something in that joint that re-disolved? Seems like the soaks in the pickle would have gotten it the first time, but maybe there was a bubble under a thin solder layer or something?
get your self some very low melt silver solder or use comsol soft solder
Stuart
I think you will be much happier having done it the right way Chris. With the loss of pressure due to the leak fixed, the engine should run better as well and maybe even the burner issues will be minimized.I'm hoping so!
Bill
Is that a pin hole at 20 min to the hour tube to end capNope, thats just a shadow from a bump.
Be very careful you could be on the road to a big problem the heating cooling cycle to hard solder a leak can keep going .
That’s one reason for using comsol
I feel your pain. I'm chasing the same issues on my boiler. Fix one pin hole by reheating and you create another one somwhere else. Jo recommended using a very small pin punch and peening the pin holes closed instead of reheating. I have worked over my boiler that way but I haven't had a chance to retest it yet. You might want to give it a try.That can work on joints around small bushings or pipes, on larger diameters like this the expansion from heating usually makes it fail again. It is a good way to close up an opening so the solder will fill it though, also is a good way to lock parts into a slot or dovetail.
Tony
I still have my PMR boiler castings kit in the box and have never built a model size boiler, however, I have been involved with the welding, inspection, and testing of several full size recovery boilers. I'll admit to using every trick in the book to get a successful hydro for the AIs( insurance company and state boiler inspectors ) I have used hot water ( if you knew the right mill person you might even get some really hot water) I have peened, I have used straight polarity on a reverse polarity electrode to "blow back " the water and seal up a pinhole, I've tried them all to make deadlines and keep a paycheck ( part of the reason I gave it up) , but, upon getting a successful hydro, we always went back and fixed it the safe and proper way. The rework after the fact was a lot cheaper than holding up a successful hydro. You did the right thing Chris. You aren't constrained by backcharges. :ThumbsUp: :ThumbsUp: Awesome project.Excellent info!
Cletus
The next time I am building a boiler I think I will send all the bits to Tennessee to be Tig'ed together!
:cheers:
Hmmm... There's a question, can a copper boiler be Tig'ed? Tiggered? Whatever the initials are? :facepalm2:
If it sticks to metal like it sticks to your ribs, should be good to go! :Lol:The next time I am building a boiler I think I will send all the bits to Tennessee to be Tig'ed together!
:cheers:
Hmmm... There's a question, can a copper boiler be Tig'ed? Tiggered? Whatever the initials are? :facepalm2:
The only trouble Chris........... is that, nowadays, that boiler might come back held together with "Ole Tennessee's Special BBQ sauce"! :lolb:
Jim
Hi Chris,I'm confused on that one. The melting point of the 15% is higher than the solder I've been using, forget the exact ones but in the 50% ranges. Using the 15 would remelt everything, wouldn't it? Or are you talking about one of the soft solders? The overlapping usage of the same terms for solders is confusing.
Looking at the photo you posted there are lumps and balls of solder showing, that is usually a sign of not enough heat and flux. I have used the 15% silver solder a couple of times to fix pinhole leaks. Usually hit it with a punch to move the metal over the hole then the solder to cover and reseal it.
Regards,
Gerald.
Hi Chris,Gotcha. Whose 15% do you use? Which brand/variety?
The main solder I use is 45%silve, the patching one is only 15% and barely qualifies as a hard solder. The 15% melts at a much lower temperature.
Regards,
Gerald.
hi. Something one should be aware of is that when you silver solder copper at a certain temperature, is ,that the solder actually mixes with the copper thereby creating an alloy that includes some of the copper !! this is why it is quite difficult to remelt the solder at the joint to "mend" any leaks. but i think we do already know this !! Keep up the good work btw and am looking forward to the next project............W......I was not aware of that one! On the leaks I have had, I have been adding another bit of solder, which has worked out.
I picked the 15% silver solder at a jewelry supply. I think they had a large spool of it, which they packaged is small baggies, all it had was a notice above the bins that gave the %, weight, Temperatures and the price per gram. Unfortunately they decided to only sell to Jewelers and not sell to the public.What temperature did they quote? Curious how much different it is than the stuff I have been using.
Regards,
Gerald.
Hi Chris,Thanks Gerald! Good information!
I am not too sure, my soldering equipment is still packed in the garage from the move.
I have attached the Harris Guide, it may have been the Stay=Brite, which on page 18 says Stay-Brite® is a eutectic alloy with a single melting point of 430°F (221°C).
Stay-Brite® 8 has a solidus of 430°F (221°C) and a liquidus of 535°F (279°C). This melting range provides the ability to fill wider clearance parts.
Here is a link for Harman and Handy http://www.silfos.com/htmdocs/product_support/alloy_selection_guide.html (http://www.silfos.com/htmdocs/product_support/alloy_selection_guide.html)
Which also lists different products.
I have used products from both of them, It is often which one I can get too.
I have also used Wolverine products from welders supplies, which is usually the easiest to find.
Regards,
Gerald.
file:///C:/Users/Owner/AppData/Local/Packages/Microsoft.MicrosoftEdge_8wekyb3d8bbwe/TempState/Downloads/GuidetoBrazingandSoldering.pdf
It is not attached in above link, tried to load with attachment and it would not post.
Gerald, I suspect the .pdf exceeded the new file size restriction. If you can split it into multiple parts and post each part separately it should work. Or you can send the file to the email address in my profile and I will split it for you tomorrow and upload to your original post.I think I have found it on the Harris website, looks like a lot of great information, got my reading for tomorrow morning.
Bill
That is the one, don't try reading it after a full day.Excellent, thanks!
Here is another link to more if you get bored,
http://www.harrisproductsgroup.com/en/Technical-Documents.aspx (http://www.harrisproductsgroup.com/en/Technical-Documents.aspx)
Gerald.
Fingers crossed that all will be well Chris. You must be ready to get on with the shovel you want to do.Thanks To ! I've gotten in a few good runs out in the driveway, which has been great, the tracks and chains working really well. Its been the nagging little leaks that have been frustrating, and have been hoping to get it running better for the next Maine trip.
Tom
Hi Chris,I have seen that site, that catalog seems to have more on the smaller units. I found a guy on ebay who sells a cd copy of the 1916 catalog, which is a larger one , 138 pages, includes a lot of details on the model 92,very similar to the one here, a 91. Also bought a print copy of the Willamette catalog from him, incredible details there too. He is at GhostTownModels.com, bunch of great stuff there!
Found this link about the Marion Steam Shovel Co. They say there are some line drawings available and thought this might be of some interest to you.
http://www.cabincreekcds.com/marion.htm (http://www.cabincreekcds.com/marion.htm)
Thomas
Congratulations Chris!! Just hope the cookie crumb is easy to find and fix :)
Bill
Doing the ends of the chain links would be like sharpening a saw by hand, very easy to miss one.Yeah, and here there are four chains, about 36 links each, two sides per link, ...
Looks great running.
Regards,
Gerald.
Still happy you found the root cause Chris. The next steamup should be near perfect!!Uh oh, you had to say it. :facepalm:
Bill
Hi Chris,Trying not to think about snow, we are in weather with 80 to 90 degree days for a couple of weeks!!
Looking like you are on top of the issues..... even if the elves are still having after effects!
How about putting your camera on a selfie stick & taping it to the radio control unit?
Cheers Kerrin
PS.....now waiting for future video's of you playing in the snow!
Hi Chris,Trying not to think about snow, we are in weather with 80 to 90 degree days for a couple of weeks!!
Looking like you are on top of the issues..... even if the elves are still having after effects!
How about putting your camera on a selfie stick & taping it to the radio control unit?
Cheers Kerrin
PS.....now waiting for future video's of you playing in the snow!
Might be fun to clamp the camera to the cab roof! Be a bumpy ride, but a neat vantage point.
Thanks guys!
Passing thought: this engine has little in the way of a flywheel, the two crank discs are fairly small, and thd spur gear is also. A typical mill engine would have a large flywheel to smooth out the motion locos would have the large drive wheels to do the same thing. There is room on the crankshaft to put two small flywheels, one either side of the center spur gear, approximately 1.25" diameter by 3/4" wide. Not huge, but a decent amount of weight in brass. They could be made in halves and bolted on around the shaft without removing the eccentrics.
Question: do you guys think it would make much difference in the smoothness and slow speed running?
Next stop, the event at the Maine Forest & Logging Museum at the end of next week!
Next stop, the event at the Maine Forest & Logging Museum at the end of next week!
:ShakeHead:
You meant, "Next stop...Stanley Steamer". ;D
Impressive job Chris. And I mean impressive.
Um, yeah, that's it! Just, the Stanley car is going to be REALLY big and have a giant shovel bucket on the front!! :hellno:
Send the Elves over tell them he promised chocolate chip cookies, then see what they do when they don't get any" Elves with attitude"Still happy you found the root cause Chris. The next steamup should be near perfect!!Uh oh, you had to say it. :facepalm:
Bill
Hey Murphy, HE said it, go get HIM!! :Lol:
Loverly to see it running...and if you made another one you could play Noughts and Crosses on the driveway !!! So What is next ??Well, here goes a second attempt at adding this reply - the first time it said my photo (700x500 pixels) was too large, when hit Back my text was all gone! GRRR!
Should be another great project Chris!. Not sure why your picture exceeded the limit. Maybe the .jpg quality was set too high which increases the resulting file size.Yeah, I think it was just a few bytes over, I usually set the default quality pretty high. Its really annoying that after it gives that error, hitting the back button on the page takes it back without remembering the text! Usually I copy the post first, but since the site has been running smoothly lately I got out of the habit.
Bill
Chris that is one bad ass machine Dog and glad I could watch it all come together and see it completed. Awesome results man and your skills are awesome..... :praise2: :praise2:Thank you Don, been great having you along for the ride!
:drinking-41:
Don
Label on the side...It should save time wrapping the whole thing in bubble wrap for their training runs! :Lol:
"Elf driver training in progress....keep clear!"
Great idea Chris, it will be a hit at any shows you are at.
Cheers Kerrin
That stand is going to be fantastic for shows. One of the Toronto Society of Model Engineers does stands for his models in which he hides a Filter Regulator Lubricator unit. He can plug the air line in at the back and control the pressure. He uses air tool lubricant in the unit and can run all day without worrying about the engine running out of lubricant.Thats a great idea - maybe I'll get that kind of set up for the Cabin Fever outing. Thanks!
Regards,
Gerald.
Those are great Chris. Makes me wish I was close enough to come. Great venue and looks like nice weather for it too.Weather Saturday was perfect, Sunday had a couple of showers but didn't stop anything.
Bill
The pictures that Terry posted are very nice!Yup, thats the same video I pointed to on YouTube in the "Back home" post. Terry's a great guy, super knowledgeable about the haulers! I've learned a lot from him.
Also over on Smokestack he posted a video.
https://www.smokstak.com/forum/showthread.php?t=172532&highlight=Lombard (https://www.smokstak.com/forum/showthread.php?t=172532&highlight=Lombard)
Dave
More great pictures Chris. Going back to the first video link you posted, I had no idea pickled eggs were big in Maine. :noidea:At least with that group! I prefer the seafood down on the coast myself. At least they also brought donuts for the volunteers every morning!
Bill
re: photos in post 2180...Fantastic! :ThumbsUp:
P.S. I used to have a beard like that. We could have been twins. But daughter convinced me to go goatee.
Even so...I'm down to shaving once a week. I don't care how I look at work at the end of the week. ;D
Actually...I don't really care how I look...anymore.
I still care how I smell though. ::)
re: photos in post 2180...Fantastic! :ThumbsUp:
I still care how I smell though. ::)
Got sent this shot from my time steering today...You need to do a model of that driver for your model.
Its on my woodcarving todo list - needs to be wearing coveralls and field boots rather than t shirt and sneakers though!! You're right, would be a good spot to sneak in a cameo, not as sneaky as Hitchcock used to do but fun.Got sent this shot from my time steering today...You need to do a model of that driver for your model.
Gerald.
QuoteIts on my woodcarving todo list - needs to be wearing coveralls and field boots rather than t shirt and sneakers though!! You're right, would be a good spot to sneak in a cameo, not as sneaky as Hitchcock used to do but fun.I would offer to do one for you, but with my woodcarving skills you would end up looking like Poppa Smerf.
Gerald.
Is anyone interested in following a 2 inch scale Lombard. I need encouragement. I would start a new thread. In the mean time can someone point me in the direction of how to make spokes for a sprocket. Oh all of my elves got a suntan and turned into gremlins.Hi Rod!
Thanks
Rod
Chris,Thanks Simon, that looks very promising. I think a friend of mine has that or one like it, will stop over and give his a try and see how it works. That hand position should help a lot. :ThumbsUp:
I used to suffer with a lot of thumb pain - I push a mouse around all day for work and what fixed it for me was swapping to a Evoluent Vertical Mouse: https://evoluent.com/products/vm4r/ (https://evoluent.com/products/vm4r/) Looks mad but it definitely works - something about the shape means it relieves the thumb of the job of gripping the mouse.
Simon.
Did some looking around, wound up ordering one of those. In the meantime, did an experiment with putting the mouse pad on an slanted board, even that helped a lot!Chris,Thanks Simon, that looks very promising. I think a friend of mine has that or one like it, will stop over and give his a try and see how it works. That hand position should help a lot. :ThumbsUp:
I used to suffer with a lot of thumb pain - I push a mouse around all day for work and what fixed it for me was swapping to a Evoluent Vertical Mouse: https://evoluent.com/products/vm4r/ (https://evoluent.com/products/vm4r/) Looks mad but it definitely works - something about the shape means it relieves the thumb of the job of gripping the mouse.
Simon.
Thanks for the pictures. I was manually opening them. A slow process. :pinkelephant:No problem - hope to have the rest of them back online over the next week or so. Looking forward to seeing your build thread progress, and someday have your Lombard take mine for a ride! :ThumbsUp:
Hello Chris,Yup, one of my RC fleet.
That is a really nice looking Vane, they should be most pleased.
Is that a Main Lobster Boat in the background?
Have a great day,
Thomas
Hi Chris, the weathervane looks great!The shop elves are releasing their bad pun enforcer at you...
This is one instance where it's a good thing when your work is "in vane".....
(sorry for the bad pun, again! :facepalm: )
Is that a Main Lobster Boat in the background?
Have a great day,
Thomas
Ayuh.QuoteIs that a Main Lobster Boat in the background?
Have a great day,
Thomas
Hey, that is MAINE, the state. We call this "The way life should be", lets not deride our boat name to something like a street name. ;D
First class installation with bucket truck and all. Great job. Weather vanes have always fascinated me. I wish someone would design a scale model shingle mill as shown in the 2nd video.That would be a great model, though it would need a different power source. Around the back of the shingle mill is the front end of an old Toyota with a takeoff shaft running back to the mill!!
Hay Chris,Its a great little museum, that event could not happen without a well organized army if volunteers. A really fun weekend! And the elves were too hung over to notice much when I got home.
What a bxxxxxr of a way to spend the weekend!
Looks like a great place, the team there have done a terrific job.
Looks like the Armstrong power steering got a bit of a workout on the steamer!
Oh did the elves give you a hard time on the finger damage? I know you pain on that one!
Cheers Kerrin