Model Engine Maker
Supporting => Vehicles & Models => Topic started by: crueby on June 15, 2014, 09:59:16 PM
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Finally got started on my first locomotive engine project - been building small steam engines for a bunch of years now, and think (hope) I am ready for a project like this one. The one part that I am still nervous about is the boiler, but hopefully by he time I get that far in I'll have a lot more practise with silver brazing (also know some Live Steamer guys that can help me out if needed).
Below are a few photos of the progress so far - have the main frame rails and bolsters done - not too much to look at, but was a lot of layout/drilling/tapping. You will note that the rails are offset to the left on the front/rear endplates - the Shay's have the boilers offset since the engine is vertical on the right side. There are also a lot of bolts holding nothing as yet on the endplates - they will hold footplates, handrails, etc later on. The endplates are brass - the original engine had them made up of a stack of large timbers, so I have scored the brass to outline the timbers, and will woodgrain in the paint later on.
I cant recommend more the drilling guides that Kozo shows in his books - takes just a few minutes to make one, and makes accurate repeatable location of matching holes in the parts SO much easier. The last few photos show the guides for the holes in the frame rails, to locate the bolsters (crossbars the wheel assemblies will mount to) as well as the footplate brackets/brace bars still to come. The smaller guide has holes at three different angles for the different brace bars - would have been a pain to lay out each set of holes manually on the rails.
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Nice start crueby and some great pictures so far too. This should be quite a project and I look forward to following your progress.
Bill
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Appears to be a huge project but good to see some impressive progress. I like the Shays after riding on the train at Cass maybe 20 years ago, and last summer at the Threshermen' reunion at Rough and Tumble in Kinzers PA.
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Good beginning. Are the buffer beams meant to be made up of three pieces (or are they?), or was it an expeditious move to use materials at hand? Looks good though. Hugh.
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Good beginning. Are the buffer beams meant to be made up of three pieces (or are they?), or was it an expeditious move to use materials at hand? Looks good though. Hugh.
The original engines used massive timbers for the ends, stacked up like a wall. Kozo changed that to one piece of metal in his model, probably for rigidity at this scale. I am using his method, but have added the score lines so i can paint them up to look like wood. The original main lengthwise beams were i-beams, i think, am going to verify that and if so will add a bottom plate to get that look as well. Some details get lost in scaling down, but it is fun to try and keep as many as possible.
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Kozo likes to use a lot of brass on the 3/4" scale engines, but there's nothing wrong with using steel to save money. Good start on this one.
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Thanks for that. Hugh.
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Got some good progress on the drawplates - nice to have some simple parts to practise silver soldering with. Made up the backer blocks for the drawplates first - did not have brass in the right width for that thickness, so used it as another chance to practise, and soldered up two pieces to get the width. Came out good - his instructions are great.
As for the drawheads themselves, started with the thin backplate - used up some C260 that has been in the drawer for a long time (hate machining the stuff, seems to smear easier than it cuts, now only get C360 or C353 which machine so much cleaner). Had to thin it a bit with the fly cutter.
Next squared up to size the blocks for the drawheads and silver soldered them to the backplates - used a couple small brass screws from the back to hold them together. One went great, the other needed a retry on the soldering, think I stopped too soon and there was still liquid flux in the joint, the solder had not flowed completely. Maybe did not have both sides heated right - still learning....
Once both were soldered, drilled for the drawbolt. Switched to a thin mill bit and milled out the centers of the drawhead cavities, then angled the piece 15 degrees (used a scrap piece as a guide to get it same each time) and milled the angled sides of the cavities. Went in and drilled/tapped the holes to attach the drawheads to the thicker base and used the sander to round off the front faces.
All attached to the frame ends, came out looking good - happy with the results. 10 pieces down, about a thousand to go!
Next up will be the footrails (am following Kozo's sequence pretty much)....
BTW - is there a way to insert photos into the text, but still use the 'attachment' option to upload photos? Or to do that would I need to externally host the photos?
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Nice work on the drawbars.
In photobucket, I use the img option which copies the image to wherever you want to paste it. There may be a sticky here somewhere, perhaps search for photobucket (lots of less than civilised comments), or insert photo.
Cheers, Hugh.
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You can try this. Right-click on the enlarged image (that you get when you click on it), and select "Copy". Then go to where you want the image in you text, and paste (Ctrl-V):
(http://www.modelenginemaker.com/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=3778.0;attach=17713;image) (http://www.modelenginemaker.com/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=3778.0;attach=17714;image)
It worked for this image, but the others are not visible while I am editing the post. It might work if you have a second browser window open.
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Thanks for the tip Paul! :praise2:
Dave
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You are really making some nice progress and some good looking parts in the process :)
Bill
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You can try this. Right-click on the enlarged image (that you get when you click on it), and select "Copy". Then go to where you want the image in you text, and paste (Ctrl-V):
...
It worked for this image, but the others are not visible while I am editing the post. It might work if you have a second browser window open.
Hmmm, tried it, could not get it to work unless I did 'copy image location'. I think it only did since you copied the online url of the image. Looking at the html source of the post it looks like an external reference that way.
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Next up are the footboards and such on the ends - fairly straightforward pieces with some more practice on silver soldering (getting better at it little by little, figuring out the amount of heat to use on small vs large pieces better).
The footboards start as four narrow strips bent to a 90 degree angle plus two thicker strips for the boards themselves. With the strips bolted onto the end block, the boards are clamped into place and drilled for temporary screws. Those screws hold the boards in place for silver soldering, and are then filed off flush.
The handrails at the top are a simple piece of brass rod, bent 90 at the ends and soldered into small lugs used to screw them to the end blocks. I heated the area of the bend to get a clean bend without cracking the rod.
The poling pockets, used to hold large poles to push cars on sidings, are made by boring a hole in the end of a piece of bar stock to make a thick walled tube. That tube is held with the angle table at 15 degrees for cutting with a slitting saw. That makes a set of little angled ringswhich are then soldered to a square plate. The plate is drilled for a small flat head screw that holds it to the end block just below the handrail ends.
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I got a start on the boiler support brackets, which hang down below the main frame rails and holds up the bottom of the firebox area and also holds the fire grate. There are two identical brackets, so the outlines are cut from sheet brass and screwed together for machining. The screws go where larger holes will be in the finished pieces, so there is no extra hole left. With the two pieces screwed together, the outlines are milled to size. Then the center opening was sawn out to remove the bulk of the material, then milled to final dimensions. Then the holes for the support rods and fire grate were drilled/tapped. Kozo used metric screw sizes, I am using the nearest inch size threads.
A seperate lug plate is needed at the top of the bracket to bolt it to the main rails. The lugs were made all in one longer piece to make it easier to hold square - that piece was drilled for the bolt holes, including a smaller hole in the center of each one to screw into the bracket, holding it for silver soldering (oh, and I am using the term 'silver soldering' like Kozo does - some call it silver brazing, or hard soldering. Whatever term you like, depends what country and decade you are from, I think!).
With the brackets soldered to the lugs, the lugs were cut apart and trimmed to length.
The brackets were then bolted to the main rails, ready to make the support rods. That will be done in place, using the main rails as the building jig for the rods, so that everything comes out the right size. Enough for this time, more to be done the next rainy day!
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That's a nice looking build :ThumbsUp: :ThumbsUp: As you say the designer seems to like brass :)
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That's a nice looking build :ThumbsUp: :ThumbsUp: As you say the designer seems to like brass :)
I like working in brass too, be nice if I had bought lots more a few years ago before the prices went so high!
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More nice looking parts there...the progress is amazing and I am really enjoying following along on this one.
Bill
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More nice looking parts there...the progress is amazing and I am really enjoying following along on this one.
Bill
Thanks Bill - I've never attempted a project this big before, but Kozo's instructions take you through one little part at a time with very good methods, so I am having fun with it.
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Couple rainy days, so good time to play back in the shop! Got the rest of the boiler support brackets done this morning.
I am trying another way of hosting the images, hope they come through okay...
The adjustment plates and the rod end plates were gang drilled
(http://www.homemodelenginemachinist.com/attachments/f31/70530d1403706350-building-kozos-new-shay-locomotive-img_4123.jpg)
and milled
(http://www.homemodelenginemachinist.com/attachments/f31/70531d1403706350-building-kozos-new-shay-locomotive-img_4124.jpg)
from longer pieces to make it easy to hold/align in the machine vise,
(http://www.homemodelenginemachinist.com/attachments/f31/70532d1403706350-building-kozos-new-shay-locomotive-img_4127.jpg)
then cut apart and trimmed to final length
(http://www.homemodelenginemachinist.com/attachments/f31/70533d1403706350-building-kozos-new-shay-locomotive-img_4128.jpg)
before soldering onto the rods on the brackets
(http://www.homemodelenginemachinist.com/attachments/f31/70534d1403706385-building-kozos-new-shay-locomotive-img_4131.jpg)
and the rod ends
(http://www.homemodelenginemachinist.com/attachments/f31/70535d1403706385-building-kozos-new-shay-locomotive-img_4136.jpg)
before assembly onto the model.
(http://www.homemodelenginemachinist.com/attachments/f31/70536d1403706385-building-kozos-new-shay-locomotive-img_4137.jpg)
It is starting to look like a loco, little by little!
(http://www.homemodelenginemachinist.com/attachments/f31/70537d1403706385-building-kozos-new-shay-locomotive-img_4142.jpg)
Next up are the angled brackets at the ends of the main rails - those look like they will be tricky, getting all the angles in the right directions....
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Nice to see those Sherlines in the background :) Another day of good progress too and yes!! it is starting to look like a loco :)
Bill
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The images are hosted on the Home Model Engine Machinist site and might be blocked by this site to protect against cross-site scripting (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cross-site_scripting).
I tried loading the URL of the first image but it said it required a log-in:
http://www.homemodelenginemachinist.com/attachments/f31/70530d1403706350-building-kozos-new-shay-locomotive-img_4123.jpg (http://www.homemodelenginemachinist.com/attachments/f31/70530d1403706350-building-kozos-new-shay-locomotive-img_4123.jpg)
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Paul, Just wrap it with the normal [ img ] .....[ /img ] and it works fine:
(http://www.homemodelenginemachinist.com/attachments/f31/70530d1403706350-building-kozos-new-shay-locomotive-img_4123.jpg)
Jo
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Not for me. I just see a little box with an "X". Maybe you are a member of the Home Model Engine Machinist forum, and are logged in?
(http://www.homemodelenginemachinist.com/attachments/f31/70530d1403706350-building-kozos-new-shay-locomotive-img_4123.jpg)
(http://www.homemodelenginemachinist.com/attachments/f31/70530d1403706350-building-kozos-new-shay-locomotive-img_4123.jpg)
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Now I'm getting boxes with X's, it was ok just now :headscratch:.
Went over there and logged in, came back and still boxes with Xs in them :shrug:
Jo
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Okay - it was worth the try to cross link them that way, guess it was not a great idea. The photos are attached to the post in the normal way too so you can see the same shots that way, just not in line with the text. I'll go back to the normal attach way from now on.
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Nice to see those Sherlines in the background :) Another day of good progress too and yes!! it is starting to look like a loco :)
Bill
Yeah - a small machine CAN turn out a big project!
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Kinda surprised myself how quickly this part of the build has gone - the main frame is done and ready for paint. A bunch of days I got going back in the shop, until looking up at the clock and going 'WHAT time is it??'. Sure ign of a fun project! Most of the parts so far are nice easy square shapes, but LOTS of little holes to tap....
Most recent parts were the angle braces at the ends, which have lots of odd compound angles to drill/solder at, fortunately Kozo gives detailed measurements for the parts and the soldering jigs, so they came together well.
After that was a set of floorboard brackets, simple blocks, angled on bottom, and drilled using the template made at the start so they all fit perfectly (the jigs for multiple part drilling were well worth the time to make).
Then, it was down to the floorboards - to drill the holes for those I put the whole frame up on the mill table, you can just see the low-tech machinists jack at the far end (two carriage bolts/nuts holding a crossbar) to support it during drilling.
Once all the holes were drilled at tap size, the boards were pulled off and drilled/countersunk for the flat head screws used to hold them on.
Ready for paint now, got some hi-temp paint that I need to test in the sprayer...
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Its beautiful crueby!! What is the overall length of the frame?
Bill
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I like that mill set up! :ThumbsUp:
Very creative! Should work just fine, and pushes the limit of a small mill!
Dave
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Its beautiful crueby!! What is the overall length of the frame?
Bill
Thanks! The overall length is 32", width 6.75". Weighed in at a little over 10 pounds so far.
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I like that mill set up! :ThumbsUp:
Very creative! Should work just fine, and pushes the limit of a small mill!
Dave
Didn't need it for these parts, but also have a headstock riser block that increases the reach out front by another inch, comes in handy for clearance to cut large gears. The column I have on is a taller aftermarket one, sherlines column runs out quick with rotary table, chuck, drillchuck, and drill all stacked up... So far on the loco I only used the lathe for the poling pocket cylinders, everything else has been just on the mill.
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I got a coat of paint on the main frame assembly - amazing how it changes the appearance of it all. I used some satin-finish high temperature grill paint, thinned down and airbrushed on. Below are some pictures of it sitting out in the sun to cure up (another 90 degree (F, not C!) day, perfect for it).
While waiting for it to dry, I read ahead the next chapter in Kozo's book on the truck assemblies. Sure are a lot of parts in those (wheels, axels, suspension, brakes, gears) - more than in a lot of whole engines I have done - should keep me busy for a while! So far a very enjoyable build, learning a lot from his book.
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That looks really nice crueby!! I do hope its less humid though where you are. Down here it would take a week to dry...especially outside. Almost a shame to cover up that brass but it does look more loco-ish in black :)
Bill
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Do you have a track layout for this to run on? I have often dreamed of building a rideable railway on my 2.5 acre property which includes a rather steep hill (maybe a candidate for a cog railway), and lots of forest and a stream (which would make for a challenging and exciting bridge. My idea was to make it electric and use it to haul down cut logs from the forest on top of the hill and possibly recouping much of the energy used going up with dynamic regenerative braking. Of course, I might also be able to use a wood-powered steam engine, and the Shay design is good for steep hills and uneven temporary tracks. My feeling is that it would cost about the same amount of effort and time, and not that much more in materials, to make one that is rideable.
Actually, looking into rideable trains, I found that 1" and 1.5" scale trains are rideable, and yours may be large enough. Tracks are 4-3/4" gauge for 1" scale and 7-1/4" or 7-1/2" gauge for 1.5" scale:
http://www.ridingrailkits.com/scale/oneinchscale.php (http://www.ridingrailkits.com/scale/oneinchscale.php)
(http://www.ridingrailkits.com/gallery/main.php?g2_view=core.DownloadItem&g2_itemId=295&g2_serialNumber=2)
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I dont have my own layout, though there are some clubs around here that maintain them.
If I lay enough track in the yard, and have it tow the lawn mower..... hmmmm!
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Got a start on the wheels for the loco - started off with a length of 2 3/8" steel round bar (heavy sucker!) for the rims, and sliced it into a series of hockey pucks, one per wheel. First one I tried using a hacksaw, then after the arm turned to rubber most of the way through, went and dug out the reciprocating saw and a metal cutting blade to do the rest. Much easier!
Following Kozo's sequences from the book, first faced off the blanks and drilled a hole in the center to start boring out to the inner diameter of the rim. Then cut a step, which will form the bearing surface of the wheel, and then turned it around to face off the back side to thickness and turn the high part of the step down to diameter.
This (and 7 more to do) form the slightly oversize blanks for the rims of the wheels. They will get spokes and inner hubs silver soldered in, then will be trued/turned down to final outer dimensions. Right now they dont look like much, but lot of work given the size of them - largest pieces I can turn on the Sherline without putting in a riser block...
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Nice work! You might look for steel discs precut to 1/2" or 1", or possibly something like schedule 80 steel pipe where 2" nominal size is 2.375" OD and 1.913" ID. Maybe schedule 160 if you need thicker walls (0.343"). Might save a lot of cutting and boring!
http://www.engineersedge.com/pipe_schedules.htm (http://www.engineersedge.com/pipe_schedules.htm)
Like this:
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Pipe-Nipple-Pipe-Size-2-x-3-Seamless-Black-Steel-Schedule-160-Class-150-/331223720918 (http://www.ebay.com/itm/Pipe-Nipple-Pipe-Size-2-x-3-Seamless-Black-Steel-Schedule-160-Class-150-/331223720918)
(http://i.ebayimg.com/00/s/MzE2WDYwMA==/z/9yQAAOSw7I5Ts5Da/$_12.JPG)
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The sched 160 is remarkably close, did not know they came that thick. Have to keep that in mind for future work, thanks! It would have worked for these rims with only a 0.040 change to the inner diameter, just making the spokes a bit longer. Oh well, next time!
Sounds like a good source for flywheel rim material too... Hmmm....
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Crueby, despite the extra work, I think you will be far happier with the steel you used. You can expect a far better finish which is evident in the picture of your completed blank!! I am not a fan of machinine black iron pipe and find it very stringy at best.
Bill
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Crueby, despite the extra work, I think you will be far happier with the steel you used. You can expect a far better finish which is evident in the picture of your completed blank!! I am not a fan of machinine black iron pipe and find it very stringy at best.
Bill
Thanks for the tip - have not tried using it before - have used cast iron castings, which are messy/grainy to work with. I was just checking prices too, and it was not all that different for solid steel vs the iron pipe. Once I settled on a way to cut the disks, it has gone pretty quickly. Guess it like most things, you can get convenience, usually at a price (in one form or another).
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I got the hubs for the wheels cut - simple cylinders, with a 2-56 hole tapped in one side to hold it into the soldering jig (the hub and all 8 spokes will have a screw holding them to the jig, which rests on the back of the rim for soldering). The extra-observant of you may notice that there are 9 sets of parts - am making up an extra wheel, just in case of problems doing the final machining/truing. If all 9 come out okay, then one will make a nice display piece (hang it on the back of the tender like a Jeep spare tire maybe??!)
For the spokes, took a length of rectangular bar and rounded one side on the sander. The spoke material is held in the machine vise, and using a dial indicator to get the length of cut, the spokes are cut off with a slitting saw.
The last photo is a shot of the test fit of the first batch of spokes with the first wheel. Got a close fit (took a few tries to get the correct length), so time to run off the spokes on the rest of the wheels.
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Been an interesting few days - got the spokes made, and also the soldering jigs as Kozo describes. The jigs made soldering them up a breeze.
First step since last time was to put a notch in the back corners of the spokes - this notch is to hold the little length of silver solder wire in place for each end of the spokes. They were done up in batches, using an alignment jig made from a scrap of brass to line them all up in the vice,where they were notched with an end mill.
The spokes and hub are all held in place with a sheet metal soldering jig, with holes at all the joints that both served to let me put the solder in, and also to keep the sheet metal from soldering itself to the wheel (had one wheel where the solder floated up on a bubble as the flux melted - had to break that one free like a sardine can lid, it will get faced off in the lathe in the next step anyway, so no harm done). There are also larger holes between the spokes to let the flame/heat through - they assembly is placed sheet metal up between two firebricks for soldering. The book gives all the dimensions for the jig, well worth the time to make up. I made 4 of them, drilled all together in a stack. That let me solder up all the wheels in two sessions.
Each piece is held in place with a 2-56 screw - meant a LOT of small holes to tap, did break a tap in one near the last piece, but was easy to drill out after heating it red with a torch and letting it air cool - that took the hardness out of the tap end so it would drill out easy.
After soldering, the back face of the wheels is faced off to thickness, and the steps in the spokes are also turned off.
Very happy with how they all soldered up - getting more comfortable with silver soldering with each piece.
Next step will be to face off the front of the wheels, bore for the axles, and finish turn the rims. The hubs/spokes will be painted, think I will put a little JB weld in the holes in the backs of the spokes first to smooth them out.
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Lots of work on those crueby, but they sure turned out well. Thanks for the update.
Bill
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The wheels are almost done now (just need to drill for the gear bolts and paint the spokes/hubs).
Got the wheels faced off to final width and the axle holes bored/reamed to size, then mounted the wheels on an arbor (turned to a sliding fit on the wheels, and left in place in the chuck till all were turned so it was absolutely true) for turning the tread and rim to size. Then, the headstock was turned 3 degrees so I could taper the tread surface, then 10 degrees the other way to taper the rim. The corners were rounded with a file while turning.
That completes the main fabrication on the wheels. The right side hubs will be drilled/tapped for the bevel gears, and all of them will have the hubs/spokes painted black. The rims stay clear, just polished.
As it turned out, I am glad I made one extra wheel assembly - one did get botched somehow in the axle hole, think it slipped in the chuck or the drill wandered a touch - came out slightly wobbly. So, that one goes in the trains trunk as a spare...!
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Too hot to do anything outside recently, so been spending some time in the shop playing with the Shay model.
I drilled/tapped the right-side hubs for the bevel gears, and got them painted. The holes were drilled using a drilling jig to keep them all the same, same jig will be used to drill the gears. The center hole in the jig was already in the scrap piece of brass, has nothing to do with the jig...
Then got the axles done - pretty straightforward turning of a shoulder on steel rods, with two axles having eccentrics added (held with set screws) that will power pumps for oiling the engine/shafts, as well as the boiler water feed pump. The wheels are held on with high strength loctite.
Included a shot of the wheels set under the frame to see how the overall progress is going - almost looks like a train...
Next up are the bevel gears - I have cut lots of normal flat gears, this will be first time for bevel gears. I have a book on gear cutting plus some articles, looks like a straightforward extension of the normal method, with some extra fiddly steps to keep it interesting. This engine needs 4 pairs of gears, one per axle. Stay tuned for progress pictures, hopefully none of the gears get turned into projectiles for the ol' flintlock!!
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It all looks amazing Crueby...most impressive!!
Bill
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It all looks amazing Crueby...most impressive!!
Bill
Thanks Bill! Been havng a lot of fun making it - individual skills from a lot of earlier projects coming together with the new ones learned on this one. Kozo has some great tips in his books, been wanting to make a loco for a long time.
Chris
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Well, I was going to wait and post the making of the bevel gears for the Shay all in one post, but it turned out I did not have any brass large enough diameter for the ones attached to the wheels so had to order some more (found a chunk of 1-5/8" bar as a drop at a commercial supplier, it should be here later today according to the tracking).
So, I got started with the smaller gears, a 20-tooth gear at 26.57 degrees. These are being done with a 44 tooth-range cutter, module 0.7. First up was to turn the blank on the lathe, with the bevel done with the compound slide
and the rest done with the normal slide. Since the teeth will intersect the post of the gear, the gear is first made with the post on the large side, which later on will be turned off after a new post is hard soldered on the small side of the gear.
With the blank turned in the end of a brass rod, the chuck was moved over to the rotary table, which was set at a 26.57 degree angle to the mill bed. Since that did not leave enough travel on the bed, I got out the heavy plywood extension that I made several years ago for cutting large clock gears.
The teeth were cut in three passes, one normal pass to cut the slot between all the teeth, then two more passes to take a slight wedge off the side of the large end of each tooth to give it the final shape - this is needed since the teeth and the gaps between them need to be tapered on a bevel gear, and the cutter will only do a parallel-sided gap in a single pass. I used the formulas from Ivan Law's book on gear cutting (with the correction from Sine to Cosine that I learned from other's posts - that saved the day!). I tried to get photos showing the process, but they did not come out well enough to show - will try again with the larger gears, hope they show the difference between passes.
As each gear was completed, it was cut off the bar, and the process started again for the next one - 4 gears needed in total.
Once all the gears were cut (they mesh very well with each other, so that is a hopeful sign I did it right, will know for sure once the large gears are made) it was necessary to make a new post for the small end. The posts were turned to the final diameter, with a smaller end that fit snug into the holes in the gears. They were then silver soldered in place.
After soldering, the gears were chucked up in the 4-jaw, and trued using the original post. They were then redrilled through the new post, and the old post turned off. Again, this was needed since the final post coming out of the small end of the gears would have been in the way of the gear cutter.
Once the gears were done, a setscrew was drilled/tapped into the post to hold them on the line shafts. Once the trucks are done, the positions of the gears will be adjusted to mesh well, then the posts will be cross drilled for final pins - the setscrews are just to allow that adjustment before pinning.
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Nicely done crueby, and some nice outside the box thinking on the Sherline mill set-up as well!!
Bill
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Okay, got the larger bar stock for the 40-tooth bevel gears, and got the first one made tonight (weather was good during the day, so got the canoe out for a paddle first!).
Took the 1 5/8" round stock, and cut down four discs, then center drilled/reamed for the axle, and using the drill guide made for the screw holes in the wheels, drilled out some 3-48 clearance holes. Then bored out the recesses in the center of the gear, which provide clearance for the bearing holders. Then, made up an arbor with the same drill guide, and turned the outside of the blanks to the bevel angle.
With the chuck/arbor moved over to the rotary table on the mill, cut the teeth using same constant-depth method as the small gears. Must have gotten my calculations correct, since they mesh very nicely. Just need to make up the other three....
This was my first build of bevel gears - they seem intimidating to make, but once you have been through it and see the changes each cut makes, it really is a straightforward process. Glad I had made some normal gears first though....!
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A fine bit of gear making there for sure. It is good to see the process as I have the Heisler and the Climax books and need to make those gears as well if I proceed.
Excellent photo's and description. Thank You
Cheers,
Tom
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That's some good looking gear work, something I have yet to try ::)
Still following along :popcorn: :DrinkPint:
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Got a start on the trucks for the Shay - The lower bolsters are bigger than any rectangular stock I had, so I made the bars from a couple lengths of round rod. In the past, I've run into trouble doing this, having the bars warp on me as I took down the first side. So, before machining, I did a stress-relief session in the oven (500F for an hour) first, let them cool down, and there was absolutely no warping problem. As I understand it the bars get work hardened during the rolling process as they make them, and if you cut one side off the internal stresses built into the bar will cause them to twist to the side. Other alternative is to take a little off one side, turn it 180, take some off the other, and so on. Baking them first to relieve the stresses let me mill off one side down to desired dimensions at a time - easier, and came out dead straight.
Once they were milled to overall length/width/height, I milled the steps in the right ends (which let the drive shafts pass by).
Then, using the tilt table and machine vise, milled the ends and the angled slots in the ends (3 degrees, to give the suspension room to tilt on uneven track). Kozo did this with angled blocks in the vise, but having the tilt table made it an easier setup for me.
After milling, laid out all the attachment holes and spring-end holes, and did a long session of drilling/tapping. Both lower bolsters are the same, except for the mount holes in the center for the brake levers, which are opposite on each bolster.
Finally, made up the bronze bearing blocks and adjustment screws which pre-tension the springs on each axle (there is a sprung vertical movement on the left end of each axle, then the entire truck has springs for movement of the axles as a pair - slick setup they did on them).
Next up will be the rest of the framework for the trucks.... but first, off to the local steam fest later this week! Here is a link to thier site:
http://www.pageantofsteam.org/
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Nicely done! There is sure a lot of time and work going into this project. Just looking at all the many parts and machining operations makes me want to take a nap! :insane:
Looking forward to more great photos and seeing this locomotive rise from the raw materials and swarf! :praise2: :)
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Nicely done! There is sure a lot of time and work going into this project. Just looking at all the many parts and machining operations makes me want to take a nap! :insane:
Looking forward to more great photos and seeing this locomotive rise from the raw materials and swarf! :praise2: :)
Thanks! Definitely a fun project. Generated a LOT of swarf so far (and spent a lot on materials too! Been haunting suppliers drop piles for deals, saved a lot that way)
This kind of project must be the equivalent of a bunch of standalone motors. Can't praise kozo's books enough, learning a lot.
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Got the truck support columns made - they bolt to the lower bolster, and guide the upper bolster on the springs. The angled slots in the upper bolster ride on tongues sticking out of the columns, which allow them to angle side to side and roll forward/back as needed on uneven track. These columns will also hold the upper framework for the rest of the truck structure.
To start, cut some slices off a piece of 1-1/8" square bar stock brass, and milled them down to the final dimensions (16mmx20mmx28mm).
Then, milled in the recess on the inside surface to make the guide tongue/base, a pair at a time. On the outside surface, a recess was milled into the side and the middle was milled to the same depth - this left a pair of columns sticking out. After that, the holes in the top/bottom were drilled/tapped, and the outside face was angled back with a larger mill.
When assembled, the upper bolster is suspended on the main springs, and held from coming out by a small plate screwed to the top of the columns. The upper bolster has a pin in the center that holds it to the crossbar on the main frame, and also has a pair of blocks that ride on the crossbar. The upper bolster is free to move up/down, tilt side to side, and roll forward/back a bit.
Next up is to make the webwork of flat bars for the rest of the truck, and then the really fun bit of milling, the journal blocks that hold the axle bearings. Those are complicated shapes, fortunately Kozo gives a good step by step sequence for milling them out....
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Nice progress on the trucks crueby!! All I can say is that your local brass dealer must love to see you coming in :)
Bill
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Nice progress on the trucks crueby!! All I can say is that your local brass dealer must love to see you coming in :)
Bill
Too bad he wont take the bucket of chips back for credit on another bar!
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It would be a bucket by now, and probably more to come. I have one, due to some swarf melting fantasy, no doubt. Great work, I'm really enjoying watching.
Hugh.
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It would be a bucket by now, and probably more to come. I have one, due to some swarf melting fantasy, no doubt. Great work, I'm really enjoying watching.
Hugh.
Hmm... Whats in my shopvac bucket....Couple alloys of brass chips, few types of steel, some wood shavings, little plexiglass and paper.... Melt all that down, should be a new alloy, maybe some adamantium or some unobtanium? Or cold fusion? Maybe I can get a government grant to study it..!
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Perhaps "Swarfium"?
Or it might engage in spontaneous recombination to create a "swarf monster"! :o
http://imonster.bandcamp.com/album/swarf
(http://f1.bcbits.com/img/a1462722162_2.jpg)
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The framework for the wheel trucks is done, ready for the journal boxes (which hold the axle bearings). The truck framework is made from 2mmX8mm brass bar, sawn down from sheet stock with a slitting saw.
Except for the diagonal bracing on the top all the bars are cut/drilled to the plans. The diagonal bracing is drilled one end, then marked for the other end - these bars have a slight bend to them so they can cross over each other.
Once the diagonal bars were all in place, they were trimmed to fit the outside corners. In the last photo, the wheel sets are propped in place as they will be in the final assembly. Still need to make the journal boxes to hold the wheel bearings - that looks to be a fun (complicated) set of steps....
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Got a start on the journal boxes. The left and right side boxes are different shapes, but they share a lot of positions for the mounting holes and the bearing cover plates, so I started all of them, then will do one side's boxes at a time when it comes to the detail shaping. The 4 boxes for each side were first milled to overall size, then bored the holes for the line shafts in the right hand boxes, and the mount holes/cover plate holes in all of them. This part went pretty quick, since once a hole was located in the first one (using the edge of the milling vise as a reference point) the table was locked down, and I could repeat the same hole in all 8 blocks. Tapping 32 holes 3-48 and 32 more as 2-56 took a bit longer....
The next steps are for the right hand journals only - these are recessed for the bearing block and also to clear the bevel gear on the right hand wheels. To start bored for the bearing block (this hole will be squared up in a later step to match the square-outside bearings), then moved the 4-jaw chuck with the block still in place to the mill, and lowered the surface around the bearing 3mm, leaving the top edge for mounting to the truck. Then recessed to leave a ring that fits into the center of the bevel gear, and finally angled the area around the ring at the same angle as the bevel gears. At that point, the other 3 right-hand blocks are next up to be milled through the same steps.
Next time will have the sides and back of the journal block shaped, and can start on the left-hand blocks....
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That's a lot of bits to make ::) Looking good :ThumbsUp: :ThumbsUp:
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Nice work on those!! Have you added an extended column to your Sherline Mill? I looks like it from the 2nd photo. If so where did you get it and how do you like it? Headroom is often a problem on these small mills.
Bill
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Nice work on those!! Have you added an extended column to your Sherline Mill? I looks like it from the 2nd photo. If so where did you get it and how do you like it? Headroom is often a problem on these small mills.
Bill
Yup, got the extended column a year or two ago. When you stack up the rotary table and four jaw chuck, very little room left with long drills and reamers. This column is 15 inches high, measuring just the rail section. This is available from sherline and bolts in place of the original 11 inch column. Here is the part
http://www.sherlinedirect.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=product.display&Product_ID=212
Works great, ought to be ther standard part!
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Thanks crueby...guess I need to visit their site more often. Four more inches of headroom would be great!!
Bill
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Next step on the right side journal boxes was to mill out the bearing recess square (was bored to size on the lathe first for position and depth). The bearings are rounded on the top/bottom/back edges, so that it can tilt - the left side bearings are sprung to let the axles tilt independantly on rough track.
After that, the back side of the box was inlet at the bottom, and recessed up the middle. This recess will be redone once the back side is angled - this cut keeps the end of the recess square to the face.
At this point, all the other shaping/drilling is done, so it is time to cut the recesses down each side, leaving the 'feet' where the boxes attach to the rails. I did the main cut from the back, then had to finish it from the front since I dont have a mill that small with long enough flutes.
Last setup was to angle the box in the mill vise (used a wedge to get them all angled the same, was quicker than setting up the tilt table) and milling the angled area on the back face.
That finished the right side journals - was not as complicated as I was afraid it would be, Kozo gives a very good sequence for them.
Last photo is the journals test fit into the trucks - the left sides are propped up since the left journals are not done yet.... Looking very different as each piece goes on - cant wait to get the left journals made now!
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Those aren't trucks...they are works of art Crueby!!
Bill
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:ThumbsUp: Nice looking parts! :praise2:
Soon you may have more brass than the Pentagon! :ROFL:
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:ThumbsUp: Nice looking parts! :praise2:
Soon you may have more brass than the Pentagon! :ROFL:
Keep the brass, I'd rather have thier budget!!
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Cold couple days up here (wierd for mid-august, usually in the 90's now, been hanging around in the 50s and low 60s), so getting more done in the shop than usual.... Getting tired though, time to walk away for the day before I have a brain-fart and make a mistake!
Got the left side journal boxes done - started by milling out the rectangular center cavity, where the bearing slides up and down, then milled out the recesses on the back side - one goes through, the other does not.
After that, angled off the back side just like the right side boxes, and cut in the sides to leave the feet.
The completed boxes look simaler to the right side ones, except that the bearings are in a slot to move vertically. An adjustable-tension spring on top holds them down. The screw sticking out the top is the adjuster for the spring tension. The spring tension on the center bolsters is not adjustable, just the one on the axle itself.
Last photo shows a test fit of the front truck on the frame - major milestone for this project, really looking like a loco now (can you hear the smile from there?? :whoohoo:). The gears mesh well, and the suspension works too. Still a bunch to do on the trucks - brake assemblies to make, and the gears need to be drilled/pinned in place on the line shafts, plus a coat of paint to put on the truck framework.
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got more shots of the frame with both trucks on now. That brings it up to about 21 pounds so far - enough weight for it to turn the wheels/gears easily with a push to the frame.
Looking more like a train (or a government designed lazy-susan??)
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Looking quite the part crueby. Have you build a small stand yet with tracks for it to sit on as you add things to it?
Bill
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Looking quite the part crueby. Have you build a small stand yet with tracks for it to sit on as you add things to it?
Bill
Not yet, probably will do that soon. Got to take the trucks partly apart again for painting anyway, and there are still brake systems, feedwater/lube axle pumps to add as well. I found a source for track rail, probably should put in an order soon!
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Got a start on the brake pads - in Kozo's book he shapes them from a large diameter disc of brass, angle undercuts the inside to match the taper on the wheels, then cuts them apart. In my case, I did not 1) have a piece of round bar 2.75" in diameter or 2) have a way to turn it without putting in the riser block on the lathe, or even 3) have a riser block for the compund slide.
So, using what I do have, I came up with an alternate method that probably took a little longer but got me to the same shapes in the end. What I did was take some offcuts of brass (left over from the journal boxes, when I cut the square stock down to rectangular), and mounted them on the rotary table with the mill vise on top. The ends of the brass were set to one side so that by turning the rotary table it would mill an arc that matched the outside diameter of the wheels. This was done with the table tilted 3 degrees so that the arc on the pads would also match the taper on the wheels. The aluminum block in the photos is there to raise the brass above the vise, so I did not cut into the vise jaws. Once the arc was milled in, I lowered the tilt table down to level again and milled in the recess behind the brake pad.
Then the pad was cut from the larger block, and the back of the block milled to size, with a notch in it for where it will mount on the cross beam. The ends were also milled down to size and a 2-56 hole drilled/tapped in the corner for the brake hangers (not made yet).
A test fit of the pad against one of the wheels (the spare one left over from the wheel construction) showed that the arc and angle all matched, so then I went into mass production mode and made the other 7 pads.
Then, took a length of bar stock, and milled it down to be an I-beam shape (I think in Europe you guys call it a RSJ shape?)
Then, the pads were silver soldered onto the ends of the beams (at the right distance to match the wheel spacing - checked that about 5 times!) along with a small bracket in the middle that will hold the actuator linkage.
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Just goes to show there's more than one way to skin a cat as they say!!. Nice result crueby. Much more brass though and I'm going to have to get out my sunglasses before checking in on your build :lolb:
Bill
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Great looking shoes! Just proves that better/bigger/more tools don't make the craftsman. Using what you have to get the desired result is real craftsmanship. Keep it up! Looking awesome!
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Just goes to show there's more than one way to skin a cat as they say!!. Nice result crueby. Much more brass though and I'm going to have to get out my sunglasses before checking in on your build :lolb:
Bill
Thats part of the fun - got that tool and that one, how the heck can you make THAT shape with them??!?! Having ALL the right tools might be boring? Well, maybe not... Amazing to look at stuff made long before anything electric (let alone computerized)
You should be safe without the sunglasses soon, another few bits and the trucks will get painted to match the frame.
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Got the brake hangers made - need 16 of the little links, and the thought of making them individually made me cough up some swarf, so dug out an old small-part trick and ganged them up. Started with a couple slices of off-cut bar stock (think these are left over from the journal boxes), and drilled through holes for the links in both, laid them on thier sides and milled a slot down each side to form the center of the links, then filed the ends round.
At that point the two pieces had the proper shape in two directions, so it was just a matter of running them through the slitting saw to make the individual links. Got enough to make 9 from each before the blocks got too thin to hold for cutting.
A little deburring later, and they were ready to screw onto the brake beams. The last photo shows one propped up in position - still need to make the pivot bars (just a short length of rod notched for e-clips. Wonder how many of those little buggers will fly across the room during installation...)
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Okay - got the brake assemblies mounted, and the trucks painted. Below are some shots of it with the trucks/frame together. Some more parts still to go on the trucks (brake actuators, and lube/feedwater pumps), but they would have been in the way to paint, so they will be painted seperate and mounted as they are made.
Farther along than I thought I'd be by now, still amazing to see that I am only up to about page 54 of Kozo's build book, only another 200 to go! :D
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You are making amazing progress crueby!! Every part looks so nice too!! Keep after it and those 200 pages will go by in a flash :)
Bill
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Hi Crueby,
I haven't commented much, but I'm following along, and enjoying your work.
Its a shame to paint all that beautiful brass black. But I understand its the right color for it. Sill, all that gorgeous brass! :???:
Its looking great Crueby! You're doing beautiful work, and really getting a lot out of your small machines! I love to see that :)
Thanks for taking the time to share your build,
Kim
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Its a shame to paint all that beautiful brass black. But I understand its the right color for it.
I did debate a lot on whether to paint, but am going for the look of the actual engine. Its also interesting how painting changes the apparent sizes and proportions of parts. The paint does obscure the scratches and dings too...!
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I have also been quietly following along here, nice work and great progress!
The Shay is one of my favorites.
Dave
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I have also been quietly following along here, nice work and great progress!
The Shay is one of my favorites.
Dave
Thanks!
I've always been a fan of the Shays - going down to the Cass Railway in West Virginia later this month to take a trip on theirs - they are also getting the Heisler out for a run. Hope the weather is good.
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Got the rest of the levers/rods/etc for the brake actuators done and installed - really tricky figuring out what order to put it all in place, not much room to get nut drivers/wrenches in between all those struts.
Started out with a couple of sets of pivots for the cranks, which were milled out of some 1/4" square bar. Then went into mass production mode on the 22 clevis ends that were needed - gang drilled the cross holes for all of them on one bar, with the holes far enough apart to account for the part plus thickness of the slitting saw. Sawed in the slot in the end, one at a time, cut them apart, and drilled/tapped the hole in the end for the rod.
Made up a set of crank bars, and test assembled everything. The long crank rod and the last clevis mount on the lower bolster of the truck, and the outside cranks pivot on the I-beam holding the brake shoes. When the brakes are activated, it draws everything up tight against the wheels. When I was looking at the plans, it took a while to visualize how it all works.
A coat of paint, and a bunch of fiddling to get it all assembled, and it all looks good. I need to go back and touch up the paint in some places where I scraped it up during assembly.
Last photo - While waiting for paint to dry, I got a start on the lubricator pump housing, which is driven from one of the eccentrics on the axles, and pumps oil up to the steam chests on the engine. Some small brass screws are there to hold it all for soldering, they will be filed off after the silver soldering is done....
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Man, you are tearing this build up crueby...meaning that in a positive sense of course. The progress is amazing and I am still enjoying the ride immensely!!
Bill
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Oh yea Bill....volume and quality is awesome!
Dave
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Thanks guys, I'm having a lot of fun on this build. Going a lot quicker than I expected it to. Combinationof being retired with more time and a summer with a lot of rainy days. Got to give credit to Kozo for great plans and tips in his book. Another few weeks and will be up to the chapters on the boiler - bit nervous on tackling that, but like the rest its one piece at a time. Thanks for the support!
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Hi Crueby,
Following along & enjoying the jounery! Pity we don't live a bit closer together, my youngest son scored the formers for the Shay boiler a few years back, it was Kozo's orginal one so maybe be a bit different, you would of been most welcome to borrowed them.
Cheers Kerrin
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Hi Kerrin,
Be a bit of a long drive there!
Kozo's first shay used a very different shape boiler, since that was one from an earlier year. It was taller in back and had a different taper. Thanks for the thought though!
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I got the lubricator pump housing silver soldered up and milled to shape - your basic little box, with a sliding lid. This pump is driven off an eccentric on one of the axles, and will send oil to the three steam chests. The pump bodies screw into the bottom of the box, and will have a spring loaded steel ball to act as a check valve.
The pump bodies were turned down from some hex rod, with a thread to go into the box and a protruding rod to hold the return springs for the plungers (made later).
After turning one end of the bodies, a piece of round bar was chucked up and drilled/threaded to act as a holder while turning the other ends of the bodies. To make sure it all stayed concentric, the holder was left in place till all three were done. The other end of the bodies were drilled in a sequence of sizes to form seats for the check valve balls inside, and finally tapped for the spring holders (made below).
Last on the bodies was to cross drill a number 60 hole at the end of the threads to make an inlet for the oil - this hole winds up just on the inside edge of the bottom of the box.
Fourth photo shows the progress so far, with two of the bodies screwed into the box. The sliding lid of the box is visible at the upper right - the hole in it is to provide a finger grip. The flange with two holes at the top of the photo is the mounting plate for bolting the pump to the upper crossbar of the truck.
Next up was to make the spring holders, which hold the springs for the steel ball check valve. They are made from a smaller hex bar (8mm), and were threaded one end, drilled for the OD of the spring, and then through drilled #60 for the oil passage. Nearly missed this step - Kozo does not mention it in the text, was wondering how the oil intake worked for a while and finally spotted this hole in one of the diagrams. Been a few cases like this from the book - the text is sparse in a lot of places - he tells you once how to do a procedure, then assumes you will remember things for the next time around. That is fine, but in places where he goes into great detail in the text on part of a piece he says nothing about the other portions. Still, better than having plans with no text!
The holders were then turned around, and held in the chuck using one of the pump bodies - the area of the hex remaining at that point was too small to hold securly in the chuck. The second end was turned down and threaded.
The last two photos show the pump body assemblies test fitted to the box. The steel rod through the box is the axle that the pump eccentrics (3 lobes, one per pump body) will fit onto. Lot of stuff to fit into a little box!
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Got most of the rest of the lube pump done (waiting on an order of a bunch of sizes of steel balls for check valves, and viton rings for pistons/shafts/etc for the rest of the engine). The pump plungers are simple shafts with discs silver soldered up at the tops, to ride on the cams.
For the eccentric straps, was about to dig out some flat bar stock, when I noticed that Kozo milled his down out of discs of brass - I happened to have a piece just big enough left over from making the bevel gears, and split it down with a parting tool on the lathe to make two discs, one for each pump strap.
Before sawing the disc into two halves for top/bottom of the strap, I milled in some flats and drilled/tapped for the bolts that will hold the straps together. Doing it now meant that the two halves would line up correctly.
Then sawed the disc in two (not in the center, since there is a protrusion on one side to attach the conn-rod) with a slitting saw.
With the two halves screwed back together and held in the 4-jaw (one jaw turned around to give clearance to the lathe bed), I bored out the centers to match the eccentric diameter (the eccentrics were made along with the wheels, and are already on the axles).
Then moved to the mill, and held the strap from the inside with the 3-jaw on the rotary table, and milled the arcs on the outside, leaving the bolt extensions and the con-rod flange. Kozo did this without a rotary table (dont think he has one, never saw it in the books). He held the strap on a vertical post, and did a whole lot of plunge cuts, moving the strap a little around the post between cuts. Much faster with the table, though end result is the same.
Last step was to slot the attachment flange with a slitting saw.
Last photo is the pump assembly on the left, and the eccentric strap for the feedwater pump on the right. That pump and the hand-pump come next.
After that, the real fun begins - the boiler! Gulp.
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Nice work, especially since the parts are so tiny. Or do you have a monstrously huge hand? :Lol:
I admire your diligence, patience, and productivity. :cheers:
And I learn a bit more about setup and use of tools by seeing what you are doing. :praise2:
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Another nice update crueby!! Thanks for taking the time to do such a thorough build log. I am really enjoying it.
Bill
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That's a lot of work to get some small parts! At first I was thinking that the bar stock would have made less swarf. But then I realized that you were able to use up a short piece of scrap and turn it into useful parts. That's not wasteful at all; that's recycling! How very green of you! :)
Thanks for posting your progress,
Kim
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That's a lot of work to get some small parts! At first I was thinking that the bar stock would have made less swarf. But then I realized that you were able to use up a short piece of scrap and turn it into useful parts. That's not wasteful at all; that's recycling! How very green of you! :)
Thanks for posting your progress,
Kim
Is 'green' another word for 'cheap'?! :)
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Nice work, especially since the parts are so tiny. Or do you have a monstrously huge hand? :Lol:
Yup - I am the Jolly Green Giant's little brother - the pump is really 4 feet across..... ;D
After a while of working on small parts, they seem to get bigger - learned that doing ship models.
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Got a start on the second axle pump, the boiler feedwater pump (there will also be a manual pump used to fill boiler and also to do hydrostatic tests).
This one is pretty straightforward turning so far - I noticed that so far on this build the vast majority of it has been mill work, very little lathe time, opposite of most of my projects.
The pump consists of two bars joined in a T shape, with check valves at each end of the crossbar for inlet/outlet, and a slide that will move up the body of the T to move the water. So far, have the parts made and test fit ready to silver solder together (burned my fingertips on a hot offcut from the plate, so taking a day before getting out the torch. Turned out to be a perfect detector for a slitting saw blade going dull - that sucker got HOT very fast rubbing on the brass, though it cut okay. The blade, a cheap one, had worn down the set of the teeth enough to rub. The plate is C260 cartridge brass, which did not help. This is about the last of the 260 brass sheet I had, be glad when that stuff is gone - much prefer the C360 alloy for everything. Wont buy it again if I have a choice!).
The flanges on the base plate are screwed in place for soldering, after soldering the base plate gets trimmed down to final dimensions and the screws heads filed off.
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I just got back from a trip to Cass, West Virginia. There is a state park there that has 5 operating Shay engines, an operating Hiesler, and a Climax that is under restoration. They take trains up the old logging rail up the mountain there (up to 4700 feet) - fantastic place for steam engine junkies! The track is so windy that from one car or two back you get a nearly straight side view of the engine, and the grades go up past 9 percent. I am starting to get a ton of photos off the cameras, will be uploading some of them later on today.... Below is one to get started, plus this one is a shot of my boiler all done - didnt it come out great? Okay, busted - it is one of thiers in the shop - might be the one from the Climax engine, not sure, may be a Shay boiler - they had one of each out in the shop.
Below are links to some videos from Cass of the trips on the Heisler and Shay engines. Great incentive to keep working on my model! Also took a ton of detail photos of thier engines for reference. Thier website is:
http://www.cassrailroad.com/
If you are anywhere near West Virginia, I highly recommend taking a trip over there to see/ride. I dont know of anywhere else with that many Shay's still operating regularly.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D56DUJAcATs
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ufAkbULIt1s
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XBnOhObSslg
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bcxlyrVsUxY
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V7uNDmel9U8
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FEts5HV71xM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p8rhUcCYV80
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7YkqtPhkNus
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Okay, time to get caught up a bit - between a vacation week and time spent helping out with an illness of a relative, been away from the shop for a while. I got the rest of the parts done on the feedwater pump, which at last posting had the main parts blocked out and ready for soldering together. First photo shows the parts soldered up - you can see that the base plate extends out from the center body, that was to hold it all together for soldering.
The next shot shows how the base was milled back to final dimensions, same width as the center body column.
Then, with the body held in the lathe chuck, the column was drilled and bored for the pump plunger, then the column was cut off to length back at the chuck end.
Last parts to make were the top cap and valve assembly for the bottom. The bottom assembly was drilled/tapped and shaped on the lathe, then taken over to the mill to cut in the hex portion. You can see that there are two hex parts - the bottom one will become the retaining nut. after the rest is parted off.
Then a photo of both the lube pump and the feedwater pumps all put together. Little more cleaning up, a coat of paint, and they will be ready to install.
Also got a start on the hand pump, which will be used to do the static test on the boiler later, and also will be mounted inside the tender to use in filling the boiler before use - it will not show in the final model without raising the tender lid, so it will not be fancy - just a larger version of the axle feedwater pump. Got the first couple parts blocked out and ready for soldering up....
Should be getting back in the shop more regular next week, I hope.
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Loved the videos Crueby!! All three classes of engines...Shay, Climax, and Heisler are fascinating to watch, each in their own way. Thanks for posting those. Nice to see you back on your build as well. Seeing the real ones at work (or play) must provide some great motivation as well.
Bill
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Okay, finally getting back in the shop again on a regular basis (minus time today for a canoe trip - weather this week has been amazing for this time of year).
Got the main body for the manual feedwater pump (used for boiler refill during use, plus will be used for static pressure testing) done. Started with the main pieces I showed last time, and silver soldered them together. Took a lot of heat for the crossbar through the rectangular body, lot of mass there to warm up. The baseplate will be attached later after machining, since it would not clear the chuck jaws.
With the bottom of the pump crossbar held in the chuck, the top end was bored for the valve seat, and the end tapped for the cap. Slow speeds used since it was so off balance.
Then, the bottom end was trimmed to length, and the top end held in the chuck to drill/tap the bottom end. Little tricky with the plate sticking out, had to make sure nothing got in its way.
Last lathe sequence was to chuck the rectangular body for drilling/counterboring the body. This hole will take the pump shaft itself.
The hole was bored out for the o-ring retainer (made next time).
The rectangular body could now be cut to length and milled off square.
The completed pump body, ready to solder on the baseplate. Next time I'll be making the top/bottom caps and the pump shaft/handle assemblies. After that, on to the boiler. (gulp!)
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Enjoyed the videos Crueby
thanks for showing :ThumbsUp:
Stew
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I also enjoyed the videos. I was there probably 15 years ago, and was fascinated by the unique design of the Shay. I had thought it used a worm drive, but it looks like it could be miter gears instead. I think that's what the small Shay at Rough and Tumble in Kinzers, PA had when I was there last year. I probably pay more attention to such things as I get into machining a bit more.
Did you also see the model trains? When I was there, the guy in charge lamented that some of the model engines had been stolen, and I think some others had been damaged or destroyed in a fire.
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I also enjoyed the videos. I was there probably 15 years ago, and was fascinated by the unique design of the Shay. I had thought it used a worm drive, but it looks like it could be miter gears instead. I think that's what the small Shay at Rough and Tumble in Kinzers, PA had when I was there last year. I probably pay more attention to such things as I get into machining a bit more.
Did you also see the model trains? When I was there, the guy in charge lamented that some of the model engines had been stolen, and I think some others had been damaged or destroyed in a fire.
The Shay engines are all bevel (miter) gear driven, it can be hard to tell since they usually have a sheet metal cover over the gears on the shaft to keep debris out. The Heisler engine there is a v-twin arangement, with the drive shaft running down the center, vs the Shay arrangement with the drive shaft down the right side.
They do still have the model trains there - heard one of the rangers there complaining how the interns keep changing the cabling/etc when they play in there at night when watching movies!
Cass is a great place to visit, I had a ball there that weekend.
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Small update - got the arms/links made for the manual feed pump. They are just bar stock, slotted/drilled to fit together. The handle is removable, has a slot at the end and a sleeve that slides on (held with loctite). Just have to make the cap and inlet...
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Still following along crueby. The feed pump looks good.
Bill
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Got the last couple little parts done on the pumps, picture below of them. Just a little paint, and the axle pumps can go on the trucks.
Start of the boiler is next finally - first step (going by Kozo's sequences) is to make up a whole bunch of fittings that go through the shell of the boiler - alignment studs, staybolts, water inlets, steam outlets, guage studs, etc. All will be turned down from bronze round bar (going to have to find a compartmented box or bunch of bags so I can label them all, they will look pretty simaler, and there are a lot of them). I have not worked with bronze much before, yet one more thing learned on this build!
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First few 'boiler bits' in the done box - from left to right they are an alignment stud used to fit the smoke stack flange, two water inlet fittings, a stud for the bell assembly, and a stud for the generator assembly. All of these will be soldered into the outer boiler shell.
Second pic is another few parts, the first blower pipe end on the left in front of the pipe itself (other end next up on the lathe), and two smokebox studs, which will mount on the front of the boiler and take the mounting screws from the smokebox assembly.
Not much to look at yet really, just the start on a lot of the fiddly-bits that hold the boiler and its add-ons. Few more larger through-fittings to make, then will start mass production on the boiler staybolts/nuts (24 of one type, 11 of another).
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Still following along :popcorn: :DrinkPint: Interestingly all these designs, Shay, Climax, Heissler, were attempts to produce steam engines with the same flexibility as the internal combustion engines when dealing with heavy load on poor quality track. The standard rigid multi axle steam designs were not suitable. The European Mallet, Beyer Garret and Fairlie designs were also solutions to similar problems.
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Still following along :popcorn: :DrinkPint: Interestingly all these designs, Shay, Climax, Heissler, were attempts to produce steam engines with the same flexibility as the internal combustion engines when dealing with heavy load on poor quality track. The standard rigid multi axle steam designs were not suitable. The European Mallet, Beyer Garret and Fairlie designs were also solutions to similar problems.
Amazing how many ways there are to solve a problem and meet a need! I never really understood how tight and steep a bend those engines could take till seeing them in person down at the Cass park.
(going to stop by my friends brewpub later this week for a refill, will join you in the pint then!) :DrinkPint:
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Got the rest of the bushings done - first pic is the steam outlet fitting plus the water inlet and manifold bushings. Second pic is the collection of fiddly-bits so far (had to label them to keep track of which is which). Next can start on the steam dome base and the big collections of stay bolts.... Probably a couple days worth of those, lots to do. After that will come the wood forms for the sheet metal (then it can start looking like a boiler).
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Got the steam dome base made - More to this one than just a cylinder so a few more pictures.
Started out with a bar of phosphor bronze, drilled the center hole (stepped hole to take the outlet pipe) and turned the rim down to size - stepped to fit in the hole in the boiler.
Parted off/cleaned up the part, and put it on the rotary table in the mill to drill/tap the rest of the holes. The rotary table made it very easy to lay out the holes, which lie on two circles - just centered the table on the drill, and cranked it out the needed distances. Then drilled a hole, turned it 90 degrees, ready for next one.
Back on the lath, started the parts for the clamps that hold the base to the boiler shell for soldering. First, bored out the center to the same diameter as the small side of the base part, and parted it off.
That dish shape was then sawn into three pieces, the outer two are the needed parts. They were then milled to width/length, and a hole drilled for the mounting screws.
The last two photos show the whole assembly. The clamps will be filed to an arced shape to fit the boiler shell later. Tightening down the bolts will draw up the base to the shell, and all the parts are soldered into place at that time.
That completes the boiler bushings. Next up are a whole lot of bronze staybolts....
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First batch of boiler stay bolts are done. There are two type, first are a simple stud with a thread at one end for the front and back ends of the firebox (they get screwed into inner plate, soldered at threads, then other end is soldered into outer plate). The second style have a large head, and a flat nut.
The studs were turned to dimension in the lathe and threaded at the end with the die held with the tailstock, and then parted off.
The studs were then turned around, and the other end cleaned up and chamfered.
Third photo is all 11 studs done.
For the headed bolts, they are turned down to size and threaded, then parted off.
The nuts are drilled/tapped out of the leftovers, and parted off to size. The first edge of the nuts has a small chamfer, once all are made I will go back with a threaded holder and taper the outer edges of the nuts (does not effect function, just looks better).
First one down, just need to make 23 more of the headed bolts...
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Well, got through the big-pile-o-staybolts making, and have begun the wood formers for the boiler sheets. These will be used to hammer the copper sheets over to form the actual boiler parts (with lots of stops to re-anneal the copper again). The formers were laid out on the wood, and cut on the bandsaw slightly oversize, and will be machined down to final dimensions on the mill (a bandsaw is a very handy tool, but hardly a precision one). the blocks are from some Sapele offcuts from a display case/drawer unit I did two years ago (shows up in background of some of the engine progress photos now and then). It is a very hard, heavy wood, and very stable, should work well for the formers. I was a woodworker long before getting into machining metal, so this will be kind of a nice blend of the two arts...
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You have been making some nice progress this past week crueby. I like the way you organize small parts too in the compartment tray. Helps keep the lost part gremlins away too :)
Bill
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You have been making some nice progress this past week crueby. I like the way you organize small parts too in the compartment tray. Helps keep the lost part gremlins away too :)
Bill
Those must be the same gremlins that keep putting the full trash can under the vise where I am cutting off the teeny part....! :LittleDevil:
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Nice formers you've done there, what gauge copper will the boiler be made from?
Hugh.
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Nice formers you've done there, what gauge copper will the boiler be made from?
Hugh.
So far the formers are just roughed out, still need final milling to dimensions. The copper for most of the boiler is 2mm thick, for the firebox shell it is 3mm thick. Kozo designed it with three firetubes and coal fired. I am thinking that I will use a gas fired burner instead for mine.
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Next step is done on the boiler former blocks - got them milled down to size. For the round ones, I screwed a sacrificial block to the faceplate, drilled for a bolt on the lathe to ensure the bolt was centered, and screwed that assembly onto my rotary table (which has a screw adapter for centering chucks on the table). Then I could bolt the round formers down and mill them to exact size (spiral mill leaves a finer cut on this wood than the lathe bit does, plus the odd shape ones later would not work on the lathe anyway).
Same was done for the smaller end formers.
For the formers around the firebox, which have a circular end and a straight base, did the same thing but stopped turning the table where it met the straight sections (third photo).
There are also a pair of formers for the forward end of the firebox area, which are just a rectangular section with an arc cut into the top. This needed a different holder, one with a tongue sticking out to bolt the former to (bolt holes needed to be right distance out to put the arc in correct place). I could not use a larger circle for this, since I dont have enough reach on the mill.
On the wider of the two, (fifth photo), there was not enough room to rotate it all the way past the cutter, so I did as much as I could on one side, then finished it up on the other side of the column (did not move the former on its holder to ensure it stayed centered).
With both of the throat formers cut, bolting the together shows the step formed - the arcs are different by the thickness of the copper. This will allow using a pipe section to finish hammering down the flange there - will all become clear when that piece is made. Kozo really thought these formers through, looks like a good sequence he has in the book.
At this point all the formers are cut, milled to shape, and drilled where needed. Still need to go back and round over the corners of the edges the copper will be hammered over - will use a small 1/4 round bit in the trim router for that.
Once that step is done, will be time to start cutting copper sheet! Think I'm gonna cut each blank, and take some of the offcut scraps to experiment with the hammer (have wood and plastic head mallets for the forming)....
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Those look great crueby, and it does my heart good to see you using the Sherline to its capacity :)
Bill
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Crueby, been following quietly. I had a great uncle who was a great auto body man. He used to say you got to treat metal like a young mule; "you try gently at first and then you may have to beat Hell out of it.". You've done a splendid job so far and I only expect the same going forward.
E
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Crueby, been following quietly. I had a great uncle who was a great auto body man. He used to say you got to treat metal like a young mule; "you try gently at first and then you may have to beat Hell out of it.". You've done a splendid job so far and I only expect the same going forward.
E
Great saying! Thanks for the encouragement!
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Hi Crueby, I am also following along quietly. I like the way you are using the Sherlines.
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I like the way you went about that. Cheers, Hugh.
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Thanks guys!
Interesting how many comments I have gotten about doing this project on the Sherline machines - they must have a reputation (obviously undeserved) about being too small to do anything useful with. Definitely too small to make a really large scale engine on, but for small to medium builds they are fine. I have done a bunch of engines, plus 4 clocks, parts for my target guns, parts for the boats, lots of ship model parts....!
Current update (only had a little time to be in the shop today):
Got the corners of the formers rounded over (1/16" radius bit in trim router), and also made the patterns for the endplates out of some card stock (wierd, a step that involves no swarf!).
Next step, trace them out on the 2mm copper sheet and start cutting...
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Wow - that worked out a lot easier than I had been expecting. Got the boiler endplates cut out (picture 1) and formed. Annealed the copper with a torch and let it all cool down, then started in on the shaping. Using a plastic-headed hammer started hammering on the exposed flanges - got about 1/3 to 1/2 of the way over very quickly, then as the copper work-hardened it would get to a point were it would just bounce the hammer off. (picture 2) Took all the parts to that stage before continuing. (picture 3)
I took that as a sign that it was work-hardening, and took it back out to reheat and cool down again (about 20 minutes or so to cool, its cold out today). After that, got most of the way over (all the way on the parts that were just straight sections). (picture 4)
Another re-anneal step, and the parts were formed all the way over. (pictures 5 and 6)
The one that needed a fourth anneal was the throat plate, which has two side flanges going one way and the curved section going the other. (picture 7)
Once all the plates were formed, they were given a short soak in the Sparex acid pickle and wire-brushed under running water to clean them back up. Looking very good so far, ready to machine the edges to final dimension (which also gives a fairer surface for silver soldering).
There are still the tube sections and firebox to form, probably will do that after machining the endplates. They will be simpler bends, since they wont have flanges to deal with.
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Well done, they certainly look the goods. Hugh.
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You are moving right along Hugh...those look good!!
Bill
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I used to sell Sherline and used a few pieces in that time. They may be small, but that doesn't mean they don't work. It's all about the user and the ingenuity. I had to make a fuel pump plunger for a large gas engine one time and the Sherline was the most convenient machine available. It got buried in the process but it worked like a champ for all the brass removal!
Keep up the great work! This flanged sheets for the boiler look fantastic! It's really fun to see your posts coming in!
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Jschoenly - that was a LOT of brass chips, but came out looking great. You are right - sometimes it takes some extra thought (think the brits call it 'bodging' or some such!) to figure a way to do a large part, but I think that is part of the fun!
I was surprised at how well the copper would take the extra shaping - sort of like really really (really) thick clay. Learning a lot on this project - opening up all sorts of ideas for future ones.
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The boiler front end plate machining started with drilling holes for the firebox studs, the blower tube fitting, and starter holes for boring the firetub holes.
In the book, Kozo mounts the front plate (and later the firebox plates) to the lathe faceplate to cut the holes to size with a boring bit (drills this big would never give a clean round hole). However, this is another case where a little ingenuity was needed to do the operation on a small lathe. I could just get the front plate offset enough on the lathe, with the riser block in, but there is not enough clearance to do the same on the firebox plate. So, am doing those operations on the mill, which has a slightly longer reach, plus using the rotary table means the mill cutter only has to reach the inside edge of the hole, not the center. So, I screwed the plate to a piece of wood on the faceplate (same one used earlier to mill the formers), and milled the three firetube holes out to size.
After all the holes were done, checked the fit of the tubes/fittings (third photo). The blower tube fitting does not get soldered in now, that comes along with the firetube assembly later.
Last part of the front plate to make were the two stiffening ribs on the inside of the plate. I trimmed out a couple of cardboard templates to get the shape figured out (the radius of the flange on the plate is a little tricky to match), then cut and filed up a pair of ribs out of copper.
The two ribs interlock to form a 90 degree angle. The ends were filed off at a rolling angle to match the front plate shape.
With the two ribs clamped in place, they were silver soldered to the plate.
Then, the plate was screwed back down to the rotary table, centered up, and the outside edge milled to the dimension needed.
Last, the two firebox studs were soldered on (these take screws from the inside of the firebox to hold it in place).
Next up, simaler steps on the front firebox plate...
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Good progress on the boiler parts :ThumbsUp: :ThumbsUp: As one who uses his smallish tools to the limit I can appreciate what you are doing with the Sherline. ::)
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Looking good, crueby. I am trying to check in daily to just keep up :)
Bill
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Did some more on the boiler plates today - started with the firebox front plate and the throat plate. Clamped them together to drill the common holes for the staybolts - drilling them together ensures that the holes will line up properly. As each of the first two holes were drilled they were tapped, with some bolts run in, before drilling the rest - wanted to make sure the plates did not shift while doing the rest of the holes.
Once all size holes were drilled, the sheets were seperated and the firebox holes tapped for the inner end of the staybolts. The throat sheet holes were drilled out to match the outer diameter of the other end of the staybolts - that end has the bolts just slipped through the throat plate and soldered. I still need to go back and bore out the holes for the firebox tubes in the firebox plate - ran out of personal steam before getting that far today though.
Likewise on the back firebox plate and the backplate of the boiler, the two pieces were clamped together and drilled for the staybolts. These two plates get a large hole milled in that will form the opening for the firebox doorway.
The last photo is all the plates at the current stage - still needed to be done: mill in the firetube holes on the front firebox plate (upper left in photo), and mill the outside surfaces on the rest of the plates (only did the edges of the round front plate last time).
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Lot done today - amazing how fun in the shop on a cold rainy day can make the time fly!
Got the rest of the machining done on the boiler endplates - milled the holes in the front firebox plate for the firetubes (just like in the round endplate last post). Then mounted the throat plate back on the rotary table, using the holder that I had made to machine the throat forms. With the plate bolted onto the former (using the staybolt holes), first milled the curved throat surface to the right radius.
Then, moved the former and plate into the machine vise, squared it up to the table, and milled the side surfaces. These surfaces will mate with the boiler tubes and sideplates.
Last to get done were the firebox plates and the back plate, milling the side flange surfaces, using the same setups as milling the forms in the first place.
Last photo show the five plates all machined, and the staybolts test fitted to make sure all the holes still lined up (they did - phew!).
Next steps are to make a set of cross ribs for the backplate, will look just like the ribs on the front plate (shown in previous post). Then can make the firebox door tunnel - short tubular piece that will connect the firebox door openings in the firebox backplate and the larger backplate. That piece will be made from a strip of sheet copper rolled to size and soldered into a tube shape.
Couple more pieces, and can stand it up on the frame to see how it looks (remember the frame? Been off at the side collecting dust for a while! About to make the display base with a 3' length of curved track for it).
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Lots of work in those crueby, but you are making it look easy!!
Bill
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Lots of work in those crueby, but you are making it look easy!!
Bill
Ah, well, I dont show pictures of me figuring out the setups, hold it on that side.... Nope then it hits there.... That way the cutter wont reach.... Errr... Okay make a block for that side.... Back to the plans five times to check locations.... Time out to rake leaves while the sun came out....!
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Slight derail today - was soldering up the staybolts and fittings on the plates, but when I got to the large backplate could not heat it up quick enough to melt the solder before the flux was gone. So, went up and picked up a larger torch at the store. Hopefully it has enough oomph to do the job - amazing how quick copper wicks away heat. Hmmm, is oomph a technical term? Need 34% more kilaoomphs... Lets see, one candle is a millaoomph... :happyreader:
Hope the new one can handle the larger assemblies. If not will have to invest in a larger hosed version - am currently using mapp gas handheld units. Will give it a try tomorrow.
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Fantastic build Crueby :praise2: :praise2:
Pete
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Fantastic build Crueby :praise2: :praise2:
Pete
Thanks Pete! Amazing what you can get done when you dont listen to those who say you can't do it! :hammerbash:
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Okay, got the new larger torch, that is working much better on the larger parts. Got the ribs and fittings soldered into the large backplate, and got going on the firebox tube. This tube connects the large holes in the backplate and the firebox plate, giving access to the firebox from inside the cab - it will get a hinged door later. To start, took a strip of copper, annealed it, and rolled it into a ring around a wood dowel (soft enough to do most of it by hand). Then ran a thin sawblade through the gap to get the angles of the ends to match up, and it was ready to rivet together. Made a little strip (same width as the gap between the plates will be), and turned a couple little rivets out of copper. First photo shows the first rivit hole drilled.
In the second photo, the first rivet has been headed over, and the tube is held in the vise and clamped for drilling the second hole - the vise is holding the ends together, and the clamp is holding the strip down.
With both rivits in, the tube was ready to silver solder up.
Once that was done, I chucked it up in the four-jaw, centered it, and turned in the edges to match the holes in the plates. When the strip was rolled into the ring, the edges thicken up a little, so this step trued it all up for a good solder fit.
Fifth photo shows the plates test fit with each other, ready to solder the ring into the firebox plate.
Last two shots show the ring soldered up, and a final test fit with the backplate.
Last to do on the plates is to make and install the hinges for the firebox door. Then it will be time to make up the boiler tube sections.... So far it is going well, the copper is easier to work with than I had expected.
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Glad the new torch worked out well crueby. I know what you mean about copper wicking away the heat...and besides, you needed that new torch anyway :)
Bill
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That's such lovely work Crueby.
Cheers, Hugh.
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First part of the boiler shell is under way - started with a rectangular sheet of 2mm copper cut to the right dimensions, and the wooden trueing discs made earlier. Since I did not have a section of pipe about the right size or a rolling machine, I made up two more of the trueing discs to make a stack taller than the copper was wide, and clamped that in a bench vise. With the copper annealed, started forming it with a nylon hammer around the wood forms (did both ends first, then was able to push it around the middle section by hand).
Got most of the way formed before the copper work hardened (second photo).
After re-annealing it, was able to form it up the rest of the way (third photo).
Then, made a strip of copper to run down the inside of the joint and riveted it first to one side (4th pic) then the other (5th pic).
At that point I soldered up the joint, and pickled/brushed it clean again. Now is when the trueing discs get their name - tapping them down the length of the pipe trued up the shape to a nice straight cylinder again (the soldering had the effect of annealing, so it would shape okay), as shown in the 6th photo. Note that I had to cut a slot in the edge of the disc to clear the joint strip/rivets.
After that, took a couple light passes on the mill to true up the edge (Kozo's measurements for the starting copper sheet take this step into account).
Last photo shows it with the hole for the steam dome and steam outlet fittings marked for cutting. Another nice trick Kozo did - has you scribe light lines in the copper when it is still flat and easily measured - that way laying out the fittings later is just a matter of measuring in from the end. The scribe lines dont show in the photos - I traced them in marker to make them stand out. Kozo cut the steam dome opening with a fret saw and filed it to shape - I am going to see if I can come up with a way to hold it in place to bore/mill it, not sure since it is such an odd shape to hold.... :insane:
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Nice!! And thanks for the daily fix :)
Bill
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Yes what Bill said!
I have been enjoying your work on the Shay and the Boiler pieces and parts are just wonderful!
Thanks for taking the time to post your progress.
Dave
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Darn, now I'll feel guilty for not posting for a day or two...! :jumpingsmileys:
Glad you are enjoying it, I am too!
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Nah, don't feel guilty, gosh until today I hadn't posted anything worthwhile for two weeks or so. Sometimes life just gets in the way, Admittedly though, it has been fun to see your rather rapid progress and knowing how much work it takes behind the scenes :)
Bill
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After a little hemming/hawing/dithering, decided to try the milling/rotary table approach on the steam dome opening - worked just fine - less chatter than with the boring head, which due to the way the boiler curves would have been an interrupted cut on every revolution. One thing I gotta say though - copper + sharp end mill + light finishing cut = some incredibly sharp and tiny little shavings, just the right size to stick themselves into the pores of your hand!! :censored:
Second/third photos show the steam dome bushing in place in the finished hole, a nice slide in fit.
After that, drilled and tapped the hole for the steam outlet fitting, which will be connected with a short length of bent tubing to the center hole of the steam dome bushing.
Fifth photo shows the two fittings set in place, before putting in the clamps on the steam dome.
Next photo shows one of the clamps in place before rounding off the upper surface - this is how it was left when making them earlier.
Seventh photo shows the two clamps after rounding off the upper surfaces on the disc sander, and the clamps bolted into place.
At this point, the two fittings are ready for soldering into place.
Time for a beer! (handy having a friend who runs a microbrewery - always something excellent tasting to celebrate with!) :DrinkPint:
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I got asked where I bought the copper rivets for the boiler - since there are only a dozen or so needed I am making them by sawing off a square strip of copper sheet from the leftover pieces and chucking them up in the four jaw with enough hanging out for one rivet. Couple passes to tutn it round then parting it off. One instant rivet. Square head, but since that will be on inside does not matter. Made a bunch in a few minutes, quick shot with the torch to anneal them, and ready for use.
Last time I was building a lapstrake boat and needed them by the thousand, I bought copper nails and roves for riveting the planks. For this, no need to buy...
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Fantastic fall weather out there today (high 70s, sunny, had to be outside before it snows by the weekend!), so only went into the shop for a few minutes - made the connector pipe from the steam dome fitting to the steam outlet. All ready to solder up. As I recall the only other thing left on this section of the boiler is to make another joint strip for the end of it.
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Crueby...will those two clamping pieces remain or are they just to hold the part for soldering? Just curious.
Bill
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Crueby...will those two clamping pieces remain or are they just to hold the part for soldering? Just curious.
Bill
The book says to solder them in - i assume that they give more strength for the bushing which is a lot larger diameter than any of the others so more total pressure on it. It is the only fitting with extra mechanical holders.
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Quick update - got the first boiler shell section silver soldered up today - took a couple sessions to get all the joints done, some of the joints took a couple of tries. This was my first time soldering up long joints, took a couple experiments to figure that out, wound up using both torches to put enough heat in quickly - that worked very well. First tries with one it was hard to get both the shell and the joint strip heated up together. In a couple of places I went back after pickling/brushing to redo a spot that did not get solder flowed in. Right now it looks like I got everything - visually it looks like full coverage.
Also took some more wood scraps and made up bending forms for the inner and outer firebox sections. Kozo did the bending over pipe sections, but I have had better luck making a full length form from wood (having a lot of offcuts from furniture projects and a bandsaw came in handy!). Next time will show bending up the firebox sections....
Chris
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Busy day - went ahead and formed the rest of the boiler shell sections. The first picture shows the conical forward part of the boiler after one pass, got that far and it work hardened, went back for more annealing. Took two more passes to get it fully formed and trued up.
Second photo shows the second pass on the outer firebox shell - took one more pass after this one to get it formed fully where it transitions back to straight at the bottom.
Third photo shows all the sections as they stand now - I got the conical section soldered up (has a joint strip down the inside just like I showed on the first boiler section the other day).
All the sections are close to fitting together, the joint rings just need a little filing to let the other ring sections to seat tightly so the solder can wick between them. Major progress today, going to be a couple days before I can get back in the shop again.
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Now that's really looking the part crueby!! Really remarkable progress you are making!!
Bill
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Looking good :ThumbsUp: :ThumbsUp: Boilers are a black art to me ::)
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Looking good :ThumbsUp: :ThumbsUp: Boilers are a black art to me ::)
Thanks! This was the part of the build that had me most nervous - never done a boiler before, but Kozo gives very good instructions in his book, step by step with great drawings.
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Got the fittings for the outer firebox sheet drilled for and soldered in today. Also made the support ribs (rectangular bronze, milled down from round - first photo) that hold the steam bracket base on - this base has the steam manifold and upper engine supports later on, so it requires bracing inside the boiler to take the added weight. Kozo designed it so the manifold is attached directly to the boiler so it gets warmed by it. The ribs were drilled/tapped for screws to hold them in place for soldering.
Second photo shows it all soldered up.
Third photo shows the back plate test fitted - ready for fine tuning the joint with a file to get a tight fit. After that, will fit the middle section of the boiler to the outer firebox and solder them together...
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It just keeps getting better crueby....lovely work!!
Bill
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Thanks Bill!
Another day, another section on the boiler. Got the outer firebox section and the parallel middle section joined up and silver soldered together today. Took a little filing/tweeking of the joint ring to get it to seat tight, then got the throat piece fitted underneath and screwed to the two sections to hold it all for soldering. Next up is to fit the conical front section on. Actually starting to look like it will be a boiler when it grows up...
Chris
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It sure does Chris, what with the daily growth spurts :) And a fine looking boiler it will be too!!
Bill
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It's definitely going to be a boiler when it grows up. Hugh.
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Got the conical section soldered on - looks like I am hitting the limit on the torches I have (handheld MAPP gas) - with this much mass and surface area it is wicking away the heat almost as fast as I can apply it. Got some missed spots that need another pass, most of it took - just.
I am looking around at other torches, anyone have any suggestions for an economical way to go? Has to be available in the US (seen some nice ones that are common in UK/Europe but not here). Prefer to go with something that could hook up to a standard 20lb propane tank, since I have one of those (current model threads on it, they changed them a few years back). I've seen some that are intended for roofing work that look like they put out a lot of BTU's, could heat a large area up while I could zero in with the mapp gas torch for the joint being soldered. Anyone use that type? Better way to go??
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Crueby,
Have had the same silver brazing problems as you with large pieces. One solution is oxy-acetylene. Some boiler builders, however, say it is a dirty flame and prefer the cleaner burning propane turbo torches for boiler work. With O-A I sometimes got small hot spots which aren't good when brazing brass. Propane is not as hot as O-A, but will do the job if you plan ahead. I use a Goss AP-1 handle and their turbo tips, like the BP-17PM. There is no BTU rating for this tip but the hotter flame of the turbo tips provide a lot of heat. Look on Ebay. The larger Goss brush tips supply up to 300,000 BTU/hr, but that amount of heat going everywhere sometimes makes it difficult to get close with your brazing torch. Instead, to make up for heat loss I have found insulating brick hearths used with insulation blanket material help considerably. I have also used an old electric hot plate which kept a good sized project of .125", .188", and .250" brass plate at about 700F which allowed the torch to be used quite effectively, and the actual brazing time reduced. An assistant with a second torch moving ahead of you will also work well if he is around when you need him.
With the old Mapp gas no longer available, I don't think the marginal increase in heat of the current MAPP Pro over propane is worth the extra cost. With the Goss or similar turbo propane torches and a little planning, you should be able to silver braze most any small boiler with ease using straight propane.
Jeff
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Rustkolector: I had noticed the change in the labels from MAPP to MapPro, but was not aware of what the change was. Did they change the mix for some reason?? Also noticed that they are putting 14.5 ounces in rather than 16 like before. Was this an environmental change, or did the bean-counters get thier grubby paws in there again?
The hot plate idea is an interesting one too. I assume you were using the torch well above the hotplate itself?
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As I mentioned earlier, while waiting for the bigger torch for the main boiler shell assembly, I went ahead with the firetube assembly - three firetubes and the firebox. First photo shows the tubes soldered into the front firebox plate - up at the top out of the shot I had the front endcap slid into place on the tubes to hold them in alignment.
Second shot shows that assembly screwed into place on the firebox, and then soldered up. The front endcap is still there at the left end, that is not soldered on yet, just using it to hold/support that end of the tubes. It gets soldered in place last, since it has to go on from the outside of the outer shell.
The third photo show the back firebox plate being checked for fit - spent some time tweaking the shell and tuning with a file to get a tight fit. By shining a flashlight from inside, I could see any gaps and where the two pieces were touching - file down the touches till the gaps go away. On the first plate I'd just hold it up to the window, but on the second needed the flashlight to get into the corners.
Last shot shows the plate fitted and screwed into place, ready for soldering up.
By then, was getting a little tired, and got to the 'put down the tools and go do something else before you do something stupid' point. Probably will solder this up tomorrow, or may wait for the other torch - getting a lot of metal in one place now, that firebox shell is a lot thicker than the outer boiler shell, and the front end took a while to heat up.
After the firebox and outer shell are all soldered up, the next step will be to put the two assemblies together and fit/solder on the boiler backplate. Not bad progress lately - happy with how it is going so far!
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Can hardly keep up with your progress Chris! It all looking really nice though!
Bill
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Crueby,
They stopped making the original Mapp gas sometime before 2009 for whatever reasons. I believe it is still available in Europe, but not in the US. The Mapp Pro gas is only about 170F hotter than propane when using air, but a lot hotter than propane when using oxygen.
The high BTU brush type torch can be a benefit if used as a second torch, but the insulating brick hearth and blankets do almost as well because most of the heat going in is reflected back into the project. The hot plate or open gas burner also works well. It can be used for preheating (heat and remove) or maintaining heat leaving it right on the burner.
Jeff
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Can hardly keep up with your progress Chris! It all looking really nice though!
Bill
Hey Bill, hope you dont go into Loco Build withdrawal this week, been outside doing yard/leaf cleanup on the last nice days for a while - got a week of rain and (ick) snow moving into upstate NY so will be back at it soon! :popcorn:
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I'll try not to...I'm not quite that bad off yet, but still enjoying your build whenever you can post :) Enjoy those last few days of good weather...I'll still be here when you go back inside.
Bill
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Still following along with interest :ThumbsUp: Those are some big bits of copper to heat up ::)
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Still following along with interest :ThumbsUp: Those are some big bits of copper to heat up ::)
Sure are - amazing how quick they can wick away the heat from a small torch.
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Well, gotta love having the right tools for the job. Got the bigger torch today (Sievert), and it really does the job. I probably could have gone for a slightly smaller nozzle, but this one had the full kit (regulator, hose, torch, end) at a reasonable price - it is one of what they call a roofers detail torch. I used it to heat up the whole assembly close to soldering temperature - got there pretty quick - then turned that one off and used the smaller torch to put the final heat on the joints. These types of torches are most definitely an outside tool - no way would you want to do this indoors (unless you have a MUCH bigger shop than mine, I guess!). Worked out great - redid the couple joints on the outer shell that I could not finish before, and also soldered up the backplate on the firebox (no new pictures, looks just like before just with solder). The pieces pass the light and water leak tests, looks like full coverage - best I can do till static pressure testing can be done. The pieces are soaking in pickle again right now, will get them cleaned up good and ready for fitting together next session.
Thanks to all those who gave me advice on torches and techniques in the different forums!
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Okay, back at the boiler fabrication - got the backplate (photo 1) and front plate fitted (photo 2). It is getting heavy - current boiler assembly is just under 10 pounds now.
With the end plates fitted, and the back plate held in with screws (am using steel socket heads for temporary holding now, since they will be put in and out a number of times before switching to brass screws for final soldering), next step is to fit the bottom plates. These plates fill the gap between the bottom edges of the firebox and the outer shell. They are made out of the same thicker 3mm copper as the firebox shell, and will be made in four sections, one per side, both for ease of making and to allow the firebox to be removed to solder the bottom plates to the outer shell first.
I started by making a cardboard template of the forward plate, then transfered that outline to the copper sheet to cut out the blank. (photo 3)
After a lot of finnicky fettling, forming, feeling, fastidious fitting, and fussy fine flipping filing, got it shaped down to a close fit (photo 4). It will have a temporary screw to hold it in place while making the rest and soldering them in (needed since it is soldered to the outer shell with the firebox removed). Probably going to be a few days to make the rest - can only take so much time with that many F words!
When not working the metal side, have also gotten a start on the display base. I picked up some nice looking nickel rails, and started making a length of wooden trestle bridge for it to sit on (just sitting square on a flat base seemed too boring). The bridge section is curved to show off the articulation between the engine and the wheels, and is also tilted slightly into the curve - will show off the engine side nicely that way. Got it all glued and bolted together (since it will be holding about 55 pounds of train, I dont trust glue only - all the main joints in the uprights are also bolted). Will give it a thin wash coat of black to make it look like old creosoted timber, and mount it on a baseboard. Couple pictures of it in photos 5 and 6 (dont have the last of the diagonal bracing in yet in these photos).
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Crueby, been following along quietly and enjoying it all. I think as fast as you are going, if you and Jo hook up, y'all could build a Trans Atlantic railroad :lolb: :lolb
E
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Crueby, been following along quietly and enjoying it all. I think as fast as you are going, if you and Jo hook up, y'all could build a Trans Atlantic railroad :lolb: :lolb
E
Tried doing the ramp-jump version, did not quite clear Nantucket....!
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As always, nice to see an update on this one. Love the display base too. Do you have a local track where you can actually run it too?
Bill
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Only tracks in this area are larger gauge, but I dont have the tools or space for an engine that size - been out to a club nearby to see and ride the bigger ones though. I am building this mainly as a fun learning project and display piece, but am planning on setting up a small loop to run it occasionally. Way too fun not to. Not to hard to make up some track sections on plywood base - like giant HO set!
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Love the trestle, great idea. What size bolts have you used? Hugh.
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Love the trestle, great idea. What size bolts have you used? Hugh.
The ones in the trestle are 2-56x3/4" hex heads.
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Quick update on the trestle display base - got the wash coat on the wood to make it look like old timber, and installed the rail plates and rail. Photos show the completed trestle with the loco so far sitting on it... Still whittling away at the firebox bottom plates - got the blanks for the rest of the pieces templated and cut out, will be file fitting them next. After they are all in and soldered, can start installing the side stay bolts.
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One thing I've learned (too late) with models that will run on coal is to make the firedoor rectangular, not round. Much easier to get a scoop full of coal into a square door. Won't matter with a display piece or one run infrequently. Nice work in fabrication.
For display a treadmill that integrates with the trestle so that is can be run on air would be very attractive.
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That looks fantastic!! Lovely work on the trestle, not to mention the engine itself :)
Bill
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One thing I've learned (too late) with models that will run on coal is to make the firedoor rectangular, not round. Much easier to get a scoop full of coal into a square door. Won't matter with a display piece or one run infrequently. Nice work in fabrication.
For display a treadmill that integrates with the trestle so that is can be run on air would be very attractive.
The book has it designed to run on coal, but I am thinking to switch to a gas fired burner. the plans show making a hinged coal grate underneath, would replace that with the burner holder. Good point about the door shape though - had not thought of that!
For running on air on the base, I was planning on making some small screw jack blocks that would raise the wheels just a hair off the rails - the blocks could sit under the truck frames and on the ties underneath.
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The trestle looks great Chris, together with the engine it makes for a very impressive piece. Hugh.
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Another major step done - got the backplate of the boiler soldered on, as well as the front/rear staybolts. As far as I could tell during pickling/washing it off after soldering there are no obvious leaks. I am going to make plugs for the bushing holes and fill it up with water to get a better look, make sure there are no seep spots before continuing.
Still to go on the boiler itself: drill/tap/install the staybolts on the sides of the firebox, then last is to solder in the front plate. After that, should be ready for a static pressure test! :paranoia: So far so good - the new bigger torch is working out well - the smaller ones never could have done these last few steps. Got lucky on the weather to get out and solder this week - was sunny and warm last two days, tonight the big front of cold air is dropping down out of Canada, will be down below freezing for a while - perfect timing to spend a couple days indoors on the staybolts - been a while since they were made - last photo is a picture of what they look like.
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I made up a set up threaded plugs for all the bushing holes, and filled up the boiler with water to check for leaks. Did find a few spots that did not get good solder penetration, and resoldered them. One spot left that is next to where I will be soldering the side staybolts next, so that one will wait and get done then. Got all that done just about the time this afternoon when the cold front moved in - temperature is dropping like a rock in thin water...
Moved indoors, and got a start drilling for the staybolts in the side of the firebox area - got out the handy-dandy mill table extension, and clamped the boiler down with a crossbar. The staybolt holes are drilled through both the inner and outer walls with the size for threading the bolts, and then before moving the table switch to the clearance size and open up the hole just in the outer wall. The head of the staybolt seats on the outside of the boiler, and the bolt threads through the inner wall, and there is also a nut that goes on the inner face of the firebox. After soldering up all the mating surfaces that will give a good belts-and-suspenders connection (not my design, that is how Kozo designed it in the book).
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Nice couple of updates there. I like your extended mill table too :)
Bill
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Nice couple of updates there. I like your extended mill table too :)
Bill
I first made the extension to hold the rotary table farther out to make some large diameter clock gears - has come on handy a number of times since.
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Got the rest of the holes drilled and tapped for the side staybolts today. All are screwed into the inner firebox sheet, ready for silver soldering the bolt heads on the outside. After that, the nuts are put on and the inside surfaces soldered. Not today - gonna wait for a slightly warmer day to go out and do that work...
Last two photos - could not resist setting the boiler in the frame and admiring it for a while....
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Looking great :ThumbsUp: :ThumbsUp: Still following along and enjoying :)
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Since the boltheads on the outside are smooth, how did you insure they were screwed in firmly?
Bill
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Since the boltheads on the outside are smooth, how did you insure they were screwed in firmly?
Bill
Both outside heads and inside nuts are smooth - I grabbed them with small needle nose visegrips to tighten. Left a few light marks but the bronze is hard enough not to dig in much. Other things happening in next few days plus the cold and snow will delay next soldering session. Might work ahead on smokebox chamber if weather stays crappy...
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Got a start on the smokebox tube while waiting for the weather to improve enough to get back outside and finish the staybolt soldering. The smokebox bolts on the front of the boiler, collects the hot gasses from the firetubes, and sends them up the stack. It is made from brass sheet - turned a former cylinder and bent the sheet around it (took 2 annealing passes to shape it fully). Once the tube was rolled to shape, used a piece of wire to hold it on the former and drilled holes for rivets to hold a joint strip (picture 1).
To rivet on the joint strip, took a scrap of brass block and carved in some half round dimples with a ball-end rotary tool (have a big selection of rotary burs that I use for carving). The holes were put next to the edge since there are two rivets side by side, that allowed one to hang off the side while its neighbor was hammered. Held that block in the vise (picture 2), and peened over the ends of the rivets on the inside (picture 3).
With the rivets holding the shell (pic 4), I silver soldered the seam (pic 5).
Then, put the tube back on the former and used the rotary table to drill 36 holes around each end to take the dummy rivets (pic 6). These simulate the rivets that hold the firebox on (it is actually held with screws into the boiler front plate) and also the smokebox door (also will be on screws so it is all removeable). The rivets will be added later, after more of the fittings are on.
With the holes drilled, went back and trued up the ends of the tube with the mill (last picture).
Next up will be to start boring holes for things like the smokestack and exhaust tubes....
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80/20 tailstock and all that creative work to get it done. Very cool!!
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80/20 tailstock and all that creative work to get it done. Very cool!!
Cheapskateness is the mother of invention! Why buy a special tailstock when I have a few chunks of 80/20 left over from test fixtures at old job and an old live center from a defunct lathe?! Not good for a jet turbine, but for supporting a few light cuts it works fine.
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Very neat tailstock. I assume that 80/20 is the term for the aluminium profiles?
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Very neat tailstock. I assume that 80/20 is the term for the aluminium profiles?
Yup, it is the brand for those extrusions and all the little accessories the sold with it. Sort of an Erector Set toy for engineers. We used it in the labs to make frames for test fixtures and prototypes, and a few chunks followed me home when they shut down the facility.
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That's an elegant solution for a one off operation crueby. Nicely done.
Bill
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Next up on the smokebox assembly are the bushings that hold the smokestack. The inner ring is soldered on, and the outer ring will become part of the stack, and held on with a setscrew on the inside of the smokebox. Started by turning the rings to shape (the outer one gets a 1/4-round step) (photo 1), and then boring the inside of each ring - a small step was left to form a seat to hold the ring to a milling bracket later (photo 2).
The third photo shows both rings turned to shape, along with a threaded disk that fits inside on the step.
With the inner ring screwed to an angle bracket on the rotary table, the outer edge was milled to the radius matching the inside of the smokebox (photo 4). This could also be done on the lathe, but I already had the rotary table and mill set up from doing the smokebox tube, so it was just as easy to do the work there.
Then, put the outer ring on the inside edge of the angle bracket and moved the bracket out to the right distance to mill the inner edge (photo 5).
6th photo shows both rings test fitted to the smokebox. The inner ring was then silver soldered in place (held with brass screws which were then filed off).
After that, was time to install the dummy rivets on the outer ends of the smokebox tube. These are just for show, the smokebox and front cover are held in place with screws into the blocks that show in photo 7.
Last photo shows the smokebox tube so far - ready to make the front cover.
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Abotu half done with the front cover for the smokebox. The book calls for turning it from a large brass disc - I did not have any 3" bar, but have plenty of sheet stock, so I silver soldered up a small stack and turned it from that. There is a 1/2" round bar piece soldered onto the middle of the back side that I am using to chuck it in the lathe - will trim that off when it is done.
After turning the shape of the door into the disk, moved over to the rotary table to drill the bolt holes around the edge and the bolt holes by the first step that will take the door clamps.
Last step so far was to mill in slots for the hinge brackets - next up will be to make the hinges and door clamps....
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That rotary table and angle plate are getting good use crueby. I love how easily the lathe chucks adapt to it. The boiler is really coming together now for sure.
Bill
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That rotary table and angle plate are getting good use crueby. I love how easily the lathe chucks adapt to it. The boiler is really coming together now for sure.
Bill
The part that makes it easy is that sherline has an adapter bolt that screws into center of rotary table and has same outer thread as headstock spindle, so all the chucks self center on the table. Very handy feature.
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Yep I know...and use that feature often. It's so nice when things are thoughtfully designed to work as a system and not only as discreet components. :)
Bill
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Yep I know...and use that feature often. It's so nice when things are thoughtfully designed to work as a system and not only as discreet components. :)
Bill
Too bad they did not use the same t-slots on the rotary table as on the cross-slides - the rotary table has slightly deeper 't's, so some of the fittings dont work. Think it would have been better to make the cross slide t's deeper, they would be a little stronger given they are aluminum.
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I got the hinges made for the door in the front cover (this is a dummy door, to get into the smokebox two of the rim screws are the mounting screws). Still need to make the door clamps (they go on the 6 inner bolts).
Had to hold up the smokebox to the rest of the boiler too - after so long working on the boiler itself, this makes it look a lot larger - guess it will revert back in appearance after the cab gets made - it overlaps a bunch of the firebox area. I am not going to mount the smokebox to the rest just yet, going to wait till the front plate of the boiler is soldered in, to make sure that the stack winds up vertical.
After the clamps, going to make the headlight and the smokestack. Maybe by then it will be warm enough to work outside more and I can get the staybolts soldered up on the boiler. Was snowing all day today, tomorrow is going to be about 15F, rather be indoors than outside working with metal!
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Looking good!
Dave
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Its looking more and more like a boiler crueby, that front end adds a LOT !!
Bill
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This morning I made up the door clamps and the number plate for the smokebox front cover. The clamps started out as a length of square bar stock, drilled a series of equally space holes for the mounting bolts (photo 1).
Then milled out a section by each hole to form the L shape of the clamp, (photo 2) and sawed them apart, ready for bolting onto the front cover. (photo 3)
The number plate was turned out of round bar, with the back turned first and tapped for the mounting bolt, then turned around to turn in the recess in the front, (photo 4), finishing up with the boring bar to give a nice square inside corner. (photo 5)
The number was printed up on a piece of self-stick transfer paper (spent quite a while looking through fonts on the computer to find one I liked). The number was stuck to a small piece of sheet brass, and cut out with a jewelers saw and filed to shape. (photo 6)
Photo 7 shows the number cut out and ready to silver solder in place, the last photo shows the clamps and number plate all assembled onto the front cover. Ready for smokestack and headlight! Given how the rivets look on the smokebox, I think when I get to making the outer boiler jacket I am going to add some rows to that as well - will use some of the photos I took in Cass W.V. of the real locos as guides - think it will add a lot to the looks.
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More work done on the outer flange base for the smokestack - in previous post, I had the 1/4-round detail just turned in, this time I have it blended down into the lower curve. First photo shows it after the blending - used a cylinder-shaped rotary tool with a rounded end to do most of the 'carving' on it, then smoothed with a round profile file and sandpaper.
Next up was to add the bosses that take the screws from the stack assembly. Put it on the rotary table, and milled in the holes for the bosses. Kozo did not use a rotary table in his book, he made a jig to align the mill for this step - I think the table made a much quicker job of it. The mill was a center-cutting end mill, so I could just plunge cut it in.
Third photo shows the bosses turned to size, drilled, and ready to silver solder in.
Fourth photo shows it after soldering, in the process of turning the tops of the bosses down flush with the top of the base.
After that was time to make the stack ring - this goes around the bottom of the stack, and bolts the stack down to the base. With the rotary table in the same exact place as from previous steps, where the holes would line up with the bosses, I drilled a set of matching holes in the end of a piece of brass bar that I had bored out to the same inner diameter as the base.
Fifth photo shows milling the outer edge of the ring down between the bosses - plunge cut next to a boss, rotated the table to the next boss, and raised cutter. Repeat four times....
Seventh photo shows the ring after parting it off the bar, and cleaning up the shape of the protrusions with a file.
Last photo shows it test fitted together, ready for the stack - to be made next...
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Got on a roll in the shop this morning, and knocked out the smokestack. It is tapered at both ends, and only a couple millimeters thick, so it had some carefull setups. Started out with a length of 1-1/4" brass bar - set it up in the lathe with the steady rest holding up the outer end (rest ends were greased to keep them sliding easy). Then, drilled through the length of the stack.
Second photo shows boring the center hole out to the minimum size (16mm).
Third photo shows turning the base section down - moved the steady rest back to the middle, and straight-turned the bottom to size, then got out the compound slide and turned the next section to a 3 degree flare - this forms the step that the mount ring solders to.
Fourth photo shows test fitting the base ring - all good to go.
Then, turned the stack around in the chuck (put in a piece of bar stock in the end to make sure the chuck could not crush the tube), and reset the steady rest out near the end (photo 5). Then, I put the boring bar in the compound slide at 4 degrees and bored out the upper section of the stack to that taper (taper extends down to where it goes through the base ring).
Sixth photo shows the completed taper bore...
Seventh photo shows a plug that I turned to the same taper, and drilled the end to take the live center.
Eigth photo shows the stack with the plug in the end, live center in place, and steady rest removed. At this point it was ready to turn down the outside parallel to the inside taper (done in next post....)
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Here is the rest of the work on the smokestack - first shot shows the outer surface turned down with the compound slide to a taper matching the inside bore - leaves about a 2mm wall thickness, plus there is a thicker flange at the very top.
Second shot looking down the bore from the top... taper runs from top down to the reverse flare above the base ring.
Third photo shows the stack ready to be soldered to the mount ring - ring is removed from the base first.
Fourth photo shows turning the tapered bore on the end of the flare ring - this ring fits over the base of the stack with the taper running up to the stack itself - a set screw holds this ring in place.
Fifth photo shows the flare ring in place.
Last two photos show the stack fitted to the smokebox - the setscrew in the flare ring holds it all together.
Amazing how much it changes the look of the boiler. The weather is supposed to break soon, by monday I'll be back outside finishing up the silver soldering of the staybolts and hopefully the front plate. The last few days have been bizarre weatherwise - been very cold, and we got lake effect snow coming off lake erie - just a little west of me they got over 5 FEET of snow! This is only mid November! Going to be back up near 60F by Monday, going to get out and take advantage of it and hope to finish up boiler soldering.
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Wow...you have been busy today and lots to show for it too. Love the smokestack for sure but I think what you did on the number "2" is really a nice touch and turned out perfectly!!
Bill
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I keep watching this with great interest, and you never disappoint! As Bill said, the number is wonderful, the rest always inspiring. All the best to you.
Hugh.
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I keep watching this with great interest, and you never disappoint! As Bill said, the number is wonderful, the rest always inspiring. All the best to you.
Hugh.
Thanks guys!
Last couple fittings on the smokebox - the mounting lugs that attach the assembly to the frame. These will get a pair of links that drop down to the frame and allow the boiler to expand/contract with heating.
Started out with a pair of square bits of sheet brass, bent to match the curve of the boiler with pliers/vise. Then mounted them in the mill vise at the proper angel, and plunge cut with a 1/4" mill.
Then took a 1/4" piece of brass rod, drilled into the ends on the lathe for the link bolts, and silver soldered them to the plates (distance betwen plates was just for the piece of rod handy, is not measured out for the boiler).
With the rod cut in half to separate the plates, they were put in the lathe and the square ends turned round. Looking at the end of the rod the plates look round, since they are at an angle they appear oval from the side.
Then put them in the mill vise with some scrap to hold them above the jaws, and drilled holes for mounting screws.
With matching holes drilled/tapped in the smokebox, next few photos show the mounts in place.
Last photo also shows the headlight bracket - simple piece made up from some sheet stock. This will hold the headlight, and also the ends of the handrails that run along the boiler. These will both be made later in the build.
That finishes up the smokebox, about all I can do till the final boiler staybolt/front plate soldering/testing is done. Still looking like it will warm up (finally) this weekend, hope to work on that stuff then. Once the boiler front plate is soldered on, I can drill the last mount holes for the smokebox to hold it to the rest of the boiler. Also, will need to do some tweaking to the boiler support braces in the main frame - Kozo has you leave them a little tall to allow for any actual variations in the boiler. In my case I need to lower the tops of the supports a few millimeters to have the boiler sit where it should relative to the frame. At that point, it should really start looking like a locomotive - can't wait!
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Still loving it crueby...thanks for the daily fix :)
Bill
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Looking good, that's a fair sized boiler (assuming your hand is normal size) :ThumbsUp: :ThumbsUp: I do like the detail work on the smoke box and stack :praise2: :praise2:
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Looking good, that's a fair sized boiler (assuming your hand is normal size) :ThumbsUp: :ThumbsUp: I do like the detail work on the smoke box and stack :praise2: :praise2:
Should be normal size, it matches the other hand!! :)
Finally warming up here, will be out soldering up the rest of the boiler tomorrow. Got the brass boiler jackets made while waiting...
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I know the weather problems ::) I have to run my IC engines outside and when there's snow out there it doesn't appeal (and certainly makes them harder to start :toilet_claw: )
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Hope your warmer weather holds. Will look forward to seeing more of the boiler tomorrow!!
Bill
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But isn't it just getting colder at this time of the year where you blokes are? The reports I've read of a couple of metres of snow in the NE US have me feeling a bit envious, but then it's been 40C here lately. And then I remember that I have no desire to live with snow like that.
Chris, I'm glad that your hands match.
Hugh.
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But isn't it just getting colder at this time of the year where you blokes are? The reports I've read of a couple of metres of snow in the NE US have me feeling a bit envious, but then it's been 40C here lately. And then I remember that I have no desire to live with snow like that.
Chris, I'm glad that your hands match.
Hugh.
In general it is getting colder here, but we got a couple days up around 60F starting now. We usually get between 60 and 120 inches of snow total for a winter, but usually no more than a foot or two on the ground at a time, so not bad at all.
Oh, and the hands dont quite match, they are the usual mirror image!!
Just setting up now to go out and start soldering, about 48f now...
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At last, weather is back to decent to work outside, got the staybolts soldered inside and out, plus filled the two leaks I knew about. Time to clean it up again, put in the plugs, and do one more fill/leak test. If it passes that I'll solder on the front plate tomorrow...!
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:censored:
Let's see, how can I say this and not be too explicit: Politician-Poo! Swarf-Stuff!!
Did not get past the leak test. One spot on the back wall of the inner firebox seam leaks, fixed part of it but apparently it extended farther to on side. That needs some rework, plus two small spots on the conical section to middle section seam leaks. Not as suprised there, that was first big joint I did, and struggled with the smaller torch there. That one is easier to fix than the firebox. So, will take a shot at those tomorrow and test it again before attaching the front plate. Hopefully it works then!
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Bummer on the leaks crueby...but hang in there, I am sure you will get it sorted out.
Bill
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You could plug them with pollie-poo, but then you'd have to touch the stuff. I think you'll get there. Hugh.
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You could plug them with pollie-poo, but then you'd have to touch the stuff. I think you'll get there. Hugh.
Ick! I'll stick with the solder!
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This morning I got the last of the known leaks reworked, and they passed the fill-with-water-and-watch-for-leaks test. Just tested the joints on the front plate, which I soldered on this afternoon, all is good! Major milestone - ready for static test on boiler. Passing THAT will be a huge step forward. I need to make a tube set to go from the pump to the boiler and a fitting for the pressure gauge first - had held off on that part not knowing if I would need them or not!
Happy Happy Happy! :whoohoo: :DrinkPint:
Oh, had one head-slap moment on the final leak test - I put in the plugs on the bushings at the front of the boiler, tipped it up on its front end, and put in a funnel in one of the backplate openings. Poured in some water, and WOW, did it come gushing out fast from the front end. What the heck! Cant have been that far off on the joints! Umm... took a closer look - I had poured the water into the hole that leads to the blast tube, which runs all the way down the boiler and straight out the other end. It is SUPPOSED to go right through. Whoops! :zap: Moved the funnel to the water guage bushing, filled the boiler that way... Much better.
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A few photos of the boiler progress so far, while I am in process of making the fittings needed for the static pressure test. The brass cylinders to the left in the first photos are the boiler jackets, which wrap the middle and conical sections. On the real locos the jackets were an insulated layer around the boilers. In his book, Kozo mentions he left out the insulation to get the maximum volume of water in the boiler - the insulation is not as important on the model as on the real thing. Last two photos show it sitting in place on the frame.
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Sounds like a successful day crueby. I'll keep my fingers crossed that the static test goes just as well !!
Bill
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Got the fittings made to plug the bushings and provide connection to pump and pressure gauge. On first try for static test, found one pinhole on the top seam - looks like an air bubble, gave a teeny stream of water squirting across the sink, plus one outer staybolt head that seaps. Not bad, will redo those joints and try again (got other stuff needing to be done today, so will probably be a day).
One other issue, the thread sealant goop I tried is worthless, at least without a really long dry time. Going to go back to old standby teflon tape on second try. No good pressure testing and having the pump fitting leak! Anyone have other options for sealing threads?
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Still following along, I hope you can fix the final leaks without too many problems :ThumbsUp: :ThumbsUp:
For domestic plumbing I have never got on with PTFE tape or the liquids and finally returned to Hemp and jointing compound (still available here in CH). The advantage over PTFE is that if you have to back off a joint slightly to get the correct angle it still seal :)
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Got those leaks fixed, and got the fittings sealed well. One leak is the o ring on the hand pump, have to fix that now. Did get up to about 120 psi even with the pump leak, which showed two more teeny pinholes. With the holiday here, will be a few days till I get back to it, but am making forward progress. Depending on the weather then I'll either work on the boiler or skip ahead to the cab.
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SO close.... But not there yet. The new hose setup from the pump works great, and I got the few known leaks fixed. But, now that I can get the pressure up high, found that there are a couple more, and one known one did not get fully fixed. Sigh....
Pressure goes up to 160 psi+ easily, but with the couple seaping spots it drifts slowly down again, gets real slow down around 50. About a drop of water out every 6 to 10 seconds. Still some work to do on it. Good news is no movements or bulges anywhere. Kozo has it designed very well, just my sheet bending skills are not as good! The first couple seams I did are the worst offenders, which shows the learning curve.
Given the back and forth weather, which is normal for western New York state, think that I am going to skip ahead and work on the cab and tender during bad stretches and go back to the boiler during warmups, which usually happen every week or two till a real cold stretch in February. That way I can keep the progress going.
Onward!
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It sounds as though you are still making some good progress Crueby, and I have no doubt you will track down those last few pesky leaks and get them fixed.
Bill
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It sounds as though you are still making some good progress Crueby, and I have no doubt you will track down those last few pesky leaks and get them fixed.
Bill
Yup, still getting better, current leaks dont show till higher pressure, so I take that as good sign. Given the winter weather, am moving on to other parts during cold spells. That should keep the momentum going!
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Small weeps not spurts often take up on the first firing
Your tests done so far prove the boiler is safe but damp , just like our new born
Take care with repeated tests and bring the pressure up in increment due to the copper being fully soft at this stage .
I know it's not that time of year but do not ever test a boiler in the hot sunshine in summer , I have seen a boiler pumped up to twice its working pressure valued off and pump removed they then when inside for a beer to celebrate the success , on returning to the boiler it was like a balloon totally trashed , the reason the heat from the sun had expanded the water the pressure went sky high result boiler K for no good
If you followed not know what the K is for its where you take a a horse when it's dead here in the UK
Nice work on your first boiler they are not easy as some early plans have errors
Stuart
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Stuart, good tip on the sun heating. Not a problem on this one right now, it would more likely freeze and burst this time of year! With use, and the expansion and contractions, is that enough for the copper to re work harden again? I was curious about that during assembly.
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Yes the stress of use heat/cool cycle will put the copper back to is normal state.
When a boiler is first made its like putty and may well fall below the stress level , mainly the fire flues and super heater flue my collapse that's why you bring up the pressure in stages and relax it before going for the two time swp.
Note also is very very rare for a copper silver soldered boiler to explode steel is another story .
In practical terms if the safety valve fails shut and the pressure goes up two things will happen one the gauge glass will break either from the pressure or more likely the backhead bending thus glass is broken . The othe failure mode is collapse of the flues this will stop the boiler steaming
Yes the boiler will be a mess but no bangs , no doubt someone will say other wise
The gage glass rupture is a failure mode and they should have a cage over them , imagine trying to shut off the blower with the cab full of steam
It is a fact that a boiler will hold steam but leak water when cold
Stuart
Yes I am guilty of trying for a perfect cold test but the initial test is for the structure of it
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Hi all
Can't believe that I never found this site until now. I have been building Kozos new shay for six years, not quite as fast as crueby although I am a little ahead. Currently testing the engine out on air. Having problems getting it to run on no load pressure of 10 Lbs. It started running at 45 and its down to 25 now. The engine is very tight and don't know if the cause is binding somewhere or the piston rings are to tight.
I can relate to the problems with the boiler. I ended up doing a second boiler after I could not get the staybolts on the first one to seal. I'd try to seal one and two others would start leaking. With the second boiler my soldering skills were a lot better resulting in a better boiler which tested out to holding 175 lbs for 15 minutes.
I also can relate to your weather. We live in Bow NH and were just without power for 2 days after 15" of heavy wet snow. I do all my soldering outside and its not fun in the cold.
I'll try to attach a couple of pictures. Its great to know someone else is building the new shay
Daveb
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Have you guys seen Ed Hume's Shay construction? https://www.flickr.com/photos/edhume3/sets/72157614192042835 (https://www.flickr.com/photos/edhume3/sets/72157614192042835)
Stunning!
Simon
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Have you guys seen Ed Hume's Shay construction? https://www.flickr.com/photos/edhume3/sets/72157614192042835 (https://www.flickr.com/photos/edhume3/sets/72157614192042835)
Stunning!
Simon
Wow, that is beautiful work!
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Hi Daveb,
When I am looking for binding in an engine, sometimes it helps to disconnect all but one conrod and valve at a time, and turn by hand. Can usually feel differences in resistance and narrow it down that way. Often its something like a slight misalignment. Just running it for a while can help. Running down around 10 is pretty good on small pistons. Picture looks good!
Chris
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... that's why you bring up the pressure in stages and relax it before going for the two time swp.
Did not know that one - thanks for the tip!!
It is a fact that a boiler will hold steam but leak water when cold
Stuart
Does that mean I dont need to be too concerned about the filed off assembly screw that just barely seeps a drop over a long time? If it is below the water fill level, will it still leak there when hot? Or does the metal expansion seal it up? I have been striving for zero leaks/seeps - if I can get there will be very happy for first attempt. Worst cases: either make another attempt, or keep it as a display/air-runner. Best case: all works. Either way, great project, learning a TON doing it.
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Water has disolved salts minerals that will stop the weeps
Note some people use distileled water , but that is corosive and will try to rebalance itself and leach from your boiler shell
Stuart
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Thanks for that link Simon. He did a fine job of documenting his build and with very nice results too!!
Bill
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Daveb,
When you have a chance it would be good to post an introduction in the introduction section so that we can welcome you properly to the forum. Meanwhile, nice work on your Shay and welcome to MEM.
Bill
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Okay, back in the shop again! While waiting for the next batch of warm weather to arrive to do more boiler soldering work (we usually get a couple warm days every week or two this time of year, good thing too, or the snow would get really deep by end of winter seeing how we get anywhere from 60 to 160 inches a year!), I am going to skip ahead a chapter or so in the book and work on a simple/fun section, the cab and tender. The cab pieces are just soft soldered, so can do that work indoors. The few bits that are hard soldered are small, can use the little butane torch for those.
Started out with cutting the sheet brass for the roof/sides of the cab. The window openings get cut later on after the frames are in place, so for now just the outlines are cut.
Then, cut the brass bar stock for the edging pieces, and milled the ends to square them up and take them to final length.
Last photo shows these pieces laid out in place, ready to drill/tap for some small screws to hold them for soldering. Also, there are mounting holes to be drilled in them. Will get to that part later today probably. Got to get up to the range and get my bow sighted in before the winter leagues start, so may not get to soldering these pieces till tomorrow.... Nice to be back fabricating again - these pieces will change the look of the model really fast.
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That looks great. The cad would be quite sturdy, with those brass bars.
How did you cut the brass sheet?
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Looking good, as ever :ThumbsUp: :ThumbsUp: We have snow forecast for this weekend so hot work/running engines may be curtailed for a while :(
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That looks great. The cad would be quite sturdy, with those brass bars.
How did you cut the brass sheet?
I thought the roof would need bars too, but once bent to the curve it was sturdy. Just got the bars soft soldered on, sides are quite solid. The sheet is 1.5mm thick c260 brass, cut it with a Bosch saber saw (they call them jig saws now?) With a fine tooth metal cutting blade. Leaves a smooth cut, cleaned up any jaggies with a touch on a disc sander and a file. The windows will be cut with a jewelers hand saw, which is basically a superfine fret saw.
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Looking good, as ever :ThumbsUp: :ThumbsUp: We have snow forecast for this weekend so hot work/running engines may be curtailed for a while :(
Yeah, nice to have a dozen or so hobbies, always something to do no matter what the weather...!
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Man I've been following this religiously and loving it all. Roger B , y'all get the beautiful picture perfect snow, we get the old nasty stuff. Another thing on the hydro, make sure you use water that is hot enough. We used to cheat when hydroing a big boiler and use really really hot water , if it didn't leak then, it wasn't going to under steam
E
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I've been using room temp water, did not think it mattered. Have heard conflicting information, whether hot vs cold makes a difference. In the book Kozo does not say anything about using hot water. Why does it matter for a small boiler?
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Crueby, are you going to emboss some rivets on the cab and if so I am curious how?
Bill
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Crueby, are you going to emboss some rivets on the cab and if so I am curious how?
Bill
The rivet embossing is really pretty easy - carve a 1/2-round recess in a bit of brass (I used a ball-end rotary tool bit the diameter of the recess I wanted), and use a center punch to press the sheet into the recess. To get evenly spaced and size results, mount the recess block on your drill press table directly under the center of the chuck. Next to that, put a straight edge the distance away from the recess that you want the rivets to be from the edge of the sheet. Then, mount the punch in the chuck, and with the drill OFF (so it does not spin through the metal, you just want the pressure), push the sheet up against the straightedge, and pull the handle on the drill press down to emboss the sheet into the recess (have the back side of the sheet face up). If you have evenly spaced marks on your straight edge, you can use that to tell you how far to move the sheet between rivets. The punch should be a shallow angle, not a needle-sharp style, to push the metal without pushing through it. If the metal is thick, you may need to anneal it first. On thin brass it will work without annealing.
I used a set up like that to emboss the rivets on the boiler jacket strap (have not posted pics yet). I used the same recess block I used to back up the real rivets from the smokebox tube. When I get to that part of the build I will post pictures of the setup. It is an old technique. Kozo describes the same method in his books too.
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Thanks, I will look forward to seeing the pictures when the time comes.
Bill
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Thanks, I will look forward to seeing the pictures when the time comes.
Bill
I took another look in the book - the false rivets are done on the tender shell, not really much oportunity for them on the cab since there are so many windows/panels. I went back through my photos of the real engines at Cass WV, and there would be some rows of small rivets on the cab edges and across the roof, but on the model those areas are too thick for the embossing method to work very well. So, will be doing the ones on the tender shell (which is thinner metal) per the book.
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Got the cab side frames drilled for mounting holes, and then screwed and soft soldered to the panels.
After soldering on the extra panels that will make the window frames, filed off the screw heads flush with the panels. Second photo also shows the roof panel, bent to an arc and with the drip rails soldered on (hard to see in photo - they are angled up along the sides).
With the side panels clamped onto the mill table (the frame bars hold the sheet off the table) I milled out the openings for the windows and insert panels. In the book Kozo saws them out, but I think this was aquicker and straighter way to do it. Next few photos show milling out the openings in the two side panels.
Last photo shows the two sides with all openings made, ready for filing the edges nice and smooth. Next step will be to drill/tap the mounting holes for the insert panels, and add the window sill below....
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That's some nice sheet metalwork :ThumbsUp: :ThumbsUp: What are you using for the cut outs, a 2mm ish end mill?
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Think that one is a 1/8", so about 3mm. Goes through the sheet nicely.
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Today I got the inserts for the side panels cut, and the ones that simulate wood planking scored. Did that with a high speed rotary air tool (like a dentist drill - wonderful sound...) and a tiny (0.5mm) cylinder cutter run along a straightedge.
Last three photos show the pieces after screwing the inserts into the left/right side panels, and the sides/roof propped up together to see how they look. Roof is not attached yet - that will get held by hinges from the front panel (not made yet - roof first, then scribe that curve to the front sheet).
I like the look - really going to change the appearance of the loco in one step. Next will start on the front panel and the floor.... Weather is still lousy, so this is more fun that fussing with the boiler outside!
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That's looking really nice Crueby!! The scoring adds a nice touch too. About time for another family shot isn't it :)
Bill
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That's looking really nice Crueby!! The scoring adds a nice touch too. About time for another family shot isn't it :)
Bill
Family shot? Already running out of places to bury the bodies... KIDDING!!
Oh, you mean with the boiler and frame? Gotta wait till the front wall is made, that holds the side walls, and there is no floor on the frame to hold the side walls up. Already tried to balance them on the frame bracket, but no luck. Should have enough to try by Sunday! I can't wait to see the group.
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That is some really NICE fabrication work! Beautiful!! :ThumbsUp:
John
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As all have said, it's looking great. Does that angled bit of brass on the roof serve as a gutter? Hugh.
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As all have said, it's looking great. Does that angled bit of brass on the roof serve as a gutter? Hugh.
Thanks guys!
Yes, the shays had that on the roof to guide rain back to keep most of it from running in the door and window. I've seen some old houses with the same setup.
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Well, nothing done on the front wall of the cab this weekend, got sidetracked rebuilding a whirligig and some work on an rc model. Maybe Monday...
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Cab front is started - got the outline cut, and the mounting holes drilled, so I could do a test fit of the cab on the frame. The floor is not made yet, so it was just propped in place - amazing how it changes the look of the loco! :pinkelephant: :DrinkPint:
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You just amaze all of us with your great skills every day! Keep up the good work ;)
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Fantastic crueby...it just gets more exciting with each new post!!! It is really taking on the form of a Shay now especially with the cab in place!!
Bill
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Wow you are really making progress. You'll pass me in no time. Great work.
Dave
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Wow you are really making progress. You'll pass me in no time. Great work.
Dave
Not soon - still need to get the last leaks in the boiler fixed (hopefully) plus make all the throttle guages etc, plus you have the engine!
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More done on the cab assembly - got the windows/frames milled out in the front wall, the floor blank is shaped to its outline, and have the engine cover about half done - some more slots/holes/tabs on it still to be done, but enough to see how it looks on the frame. These kinds of parts are a lot of fun - easy to do, and they make a big difference in the appearance.
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Great looking cab.
Ernie J
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Very nice crueby...its just keeps getting better and better. So when do you plan on starting the engine(s)?
Bill
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Very nice crueby...its just keeps getting better and better. So when do you plan on starting the engine(s)?
Bill
The engine is "only" about 20 pages away in the book. Still have water gauge, valves, throttle, steam dome, handrails, and bunch of piping to do. Maybe another month or so? Weird to work on a steam engine project and not do a bit of an actual engine for 7 or 8 months!
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Minor update (been out of the shop busy with holiday parties, reunions, christmas tree/lights, all the usual fun seasonal stuff!). Now have the cab floor finished up - a number of holes for mounting the cab itself, floor-to-frame, and for reversing gear lever later, plus some recesses for piping. Not a lot to look at, but at least it holds the cab steady now. Next up is to make the roof hinges and support....
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Still looking good though!! Take a break and enjoy the holidays.
Bill
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Still looking good though!! Take a break and enjoy the holidays.
Bill
Definitely - tree is up/decorated, lights are up, cookies are made, life is good!
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One more small bit made - the cab-half of the roof hinges. Found a chunk of offcut brass in the box, milled it down to dimensions, drilled/tapped the holes, rounded the end with a file, and fitted them to the cab front. For that, drilled a hole just undersize in the front wall, and filed the holes square to fit the hinge so that the working end projects through and is screwed in from the back. Next up is to make the roof-half of the hinges... These hinges allow the roof to swing upwards, giving easy access to the valves/gauges on the end of the boiler.
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Made the other half of the roof hinges, as well as the ventilator for the roof.
To start, milled an angle on the edge of a piece of brass bar wide enough to make both hinges. The angle matches the angle of the roof where the hinges will go (photo 1).
Then drilled/tapped a hole in the center for a screw to hold the other plate of the hinge in place (photo 2).
With both hinge plates screwed together, the assembly was silver soldered together, and then sawn down the middle to make both hinges (photo 3).
Each half was then milled to width, which also cleaned up the sawn edge. (photo 4)
After drilling the mounting holes, test fitted it on the cab/roof - fits nicely (photos 5/6).
Also made the dummy ventilator for the cab roof. Kozo made his from one piece of 6mm brass, I did not have any that thick, so used two sheets of 3mm - worked out easy that way since the two halfs are slightly different sizes anyway (so the upper one hangs over the lower one). The lower piece was milled lengthwise to match the curve of the roof in a series of stepped cuts, then filed smooth (photo 7).
Last shot shows the ventilator in place - the screws will also hold the bracket for the bar that holds the roof open - that will be made next time.
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Hi cruby, still quitely following along. I would say"outstanding" should be the right American word for this work.
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Hi cruby, still quitely following along. I would say"outstanding" should be the right American word for this work.
Thanks!
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Every detail like the roof vent adds that much more to the engine....I like it too!!
Bill
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The cab roof support (used to hold it open to make access to valves/gauges easy) started with making a pair of hinge ends very simaler to the roof hinges. Then, took a strip of brass for the support itself and drilled one end for the pivot, and a series of holes at the other end for the slot. The slot was then cut out with a jewelers saw and filed smooth (photo 1).
Next, needed to make the little handwheel to tighten the bolt that rides in the slot. In the book, Kozo uses a cross-rod arrangement like you would have on a bench vise. I decided to use a handwheel instead since it will blend in with the handwheels on the valves better, and be just as functional (plus easier for fat fingers to turn). Started with a bit of brass rod, drilled/tapped the center hole on the lathe, and then went to the rotary table on the mill to drill the series of holes around the edge. First spot drilled to locate the holes (photo 2), then drilled them out to size every 60 degrees (photo 3).
After that, moved the table over a bit and used an end mill to make the recesses in the edge of the wheel. I plunge cut each one, so that I did not have to worry about getting the distance in from the edge the same on each one (photo 4).
Moved back over to the lathe, filed the edges round, and parted off the wheels - had enough depth for two of them, sure the second one will get used somewhere... (photo 5)
With the wheels parted off, soldered in a short length of threaded rod (cut from socket bolts) in the center (photo 6).
With all the parts made, they were assembled onto the cab and roof (last two photos).
Next up will be the end plates for the engine cover, hand rails, and steps, which will complete the cab....
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I like that and as you say it will fit right in with the other handwheels and knobs, etc. in the cab. Yet another nice detail!!
Bill
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First up, got the panel that goes at the cab end of the engine cover made - simple sheet metal plate with some slots and holes in it. (photo 1)
Then started on the handrails for the cab - drilled a set of holes in a rectangle of sheet brass, (photo 2) and silver soldered in the bent brass rod. Keeping them as a pair made them stand up, so it was easier to solder up (photo 3).
Then, cut them apart and filed the plates down to shape with rounded corners (photo 4).
Installed on the cab, gives it a nice finished look (photo 5).
Next to the rails, in the inset panel, will be another place where the loco number will go (to match the one on the front end of the boiler). I have not cut them out yet, but have the numbers inkjet-printed on some transfer film and stuck on the brass sheet (photo 6).
Got a start on the ladders that lead into the cab. Dug around in the scrap box again and found some brass the right thicknesses (the cab is using up a bunch of the offcuts). Hacksawed (hacksawned? hacksaweded? whatever...) them to rough size, then milled them straight and square to size (photo 7).
Last photo shows the steps and risers ready to go. They will be screwed together and silver soldered up next time....
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Last time I posted the photo of the ladder parts cut out - got them drilled/tapped/soldered up, ready to hang on the back of the cab doorway. The last photo shows one of the ladders in place, it is just on one screw for now since the back rail hangs from the tenders' floor plate, which is not made yet.
Next up, I am going back a chapter in the book to do the valves/gauge parts - I had skipped ahead to the cab to get a break from the boiler parts - needed to work on something where I could see big progress quickly and keep my interest up (it worked). Too long working on twigs, need to make a whole tree again! With so many interconnected parts with nested threads, I went and got myself some of the metric taps/dies for these parts - would have been too complicated switching to nearest imperial sizes, turned out fairly cheap to pick up the few sizes needed. For things like the valves, he has smaller threads internally for stems, and slightly larger ones outside for gland nuts and such.
After the valves/etc, next chapter in the book is the steam/sand domes, throttle assembly, and handrails - another place where it will change the whole look of the project.
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The steps look great crueby. Glad to see your motivation is still intact if not even in overdrive :)
Bill
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Almost forgot the numbers on the side of the cab. As with the number on the front of the boiler, they were inkjet printed from the computer on a piece of self-adhesive film and stuck to a piece of thin brass sheet. The sequence below shows cutting a number out from start to finish with a jewelers saw. Since it is tricky to back the blade out from a long curvy cut without breaking it, as is moving the piece in the vice without breaking the blade, it is important to make short cuts, and to make a stop cut first. Pick which section to cut out next, make a stop cut up to the line, and cut along the line to that stop cut to remove a section. Then reposition the work in the vice for the next section. When all the cuts are done the remaining piece of the adhesive film is peeled off and the number is ready to solder onto the cab plate. These numbers are only about 5/8" tall....
Oh, and anyone who suggests that I cut all the letters for the railroad name on the tender out this way will be shot out of a steam caliope!!
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Got a start on the steam manifold that sits on top of the boiler and feeds the water gauge, whistle valve, and pressure gauge (as well as holding up the end of the throttle lever.
The manifold starts out as a block of rectangular brass bar, hacksawed to rough length then trimmed square to size in the mill. Then, drilled a narrow hole down the length of it, most of the way through but not all. This will become the passageway for the steam to the different ports. A second hole from the front left side intersects with the first one to lead to the steam gauge. (photo 1)
Drilled a shallow larger hole at the ends of these first two, giving an opening to silver solder the fittings to. In the book, both fittings are threaded on the outside to attach pipes to. In my case, the one for the steam gauge was internally threaded, to match the fitting on the gauge I had bought from PMResearch. (photo 2)
Next up was to drill/bore the large center hole, which the bolt that holds the manifold to the boiler passes through. (photo 3)
After boring it to match the bolt, another 'ring' area is bored in the center of the length of the hole - this gives a passage for the steam from the hole in the side of the bolt into the manifold, no matter what orientation the bolt stops at. It was hard to get a good picture of this - in the fourth photo you can see the shoulder that the far end of this ring makes - the near end is hard to see, it is at the edge of where those chips are in the bore. Both the top and bottom of the manifold will have a gasket, tightened by the large center bolt.
Last to bore out was the hole for the steam whistle valve in the right end of the manifold. This hole was drilled through, then the first 3/4's of it bored out to a larger size - the valve will have a step in it to match, and will go all the way through this opening, tightening down around the manifold with a nut on the end. This valve is not made till much later in the book, guess I'll make a plug for the opening to test the rest in the meantime. (photo 5)
Next photo shows the manifold at this stage. Did not get a seperate photo of this, but the hole at the left front corner of the top is for mounting the throttle lever.
Last two photos show the little fitting for the steam gauge port - it is threaded on the inside 3/16-40 to match the gauge siphon, and the other end necked down to match the hole in the manifold. It was silver soldered into the opening later (next post).
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For the manifold mounting bolt, a piece of brass bar stock was turned down to diameter and threaded on the end to match the boiler fitting. There is also a hole drilled up the length of this section from the end, which will meet up with the cross hole drilled later. (photo 1)
Then, parted off the bar and moved it over to the rotary table to mill in the flats to make it a hex-head bolt (quick look online found the formula to get what diameter bar is needed for a given width hex - internet can be handy sometimes!) (photo 2)
Turned the bolt sideways in the vise, and drilled the cross hole. This, along with the hole from the end, lets steam flow up the inside of the bolt, outside to the ring bored in the manifold, and then into the series of ports out of the manifold. Simple but clever the way Kozo designed this. (photo 3)
Next photo shows the manifold with the bolt, along with the gauge fitting ready to silver solder in place.
Last photo shows them all together. Still need to make the fitting for the port in the left end, which will lead to the top of the water gauge assembly. I have some metric taps/dies coming Monday that I need for that, so will probably go to one of the other parts and come back to that fitting... Nice progress for today, on to other things.
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Got a start on the water gauge assembly today. Began with the tube fittings to connect it to the manifold. Drilled and turned the union nut from a length of hex bar stock, (photo 1) and the tubing nipple from a bit of round bar. It is just two holes drilled in the end (small one through, larger one sized to solder onto the tubing at the outer end), then neck it down and part it off. (photo 2)
Third photo shows them on the tubing.
Next up is the water gauge itself, which is made up of a whole bunch of tubes and union nuts. Given how confusing it would be to describe making up a pile of very simaler simple pipe sections, I will leave that to the diagrams in the book and just give the highlights. The main column, which supports the glass tube, was drilled down the length from one end (not through), and then holes crossbored for the end supports. Next few photos show that, plus the assembly so far. Still need to make up upper and lower supports and the flange to attach to the boiler - those come next time...
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Made some more of the parts for the water gauge assembly, namely the parts that hold the glass tube. Started with the upper one, turned some brass to right diameter and threaded the end.
Then, drilled through just larger than the glass tube, and drilled/tapped the outer end for the plug. Actually, did all this twice, since I botched the first part (misread and grabbed wrong drill - boy did the tap go in REAL easy that time... ).
Cross drilled for the post that holds this part, and the upper holder was done.
Next photo shows the pieces so far test fitted (nothing soldered up yet).
On the the lower holder - again threaded the end,
and drilled for the glass tube (only partway through on this one - the tube slides down through the top holder, rests on the bottom one in an o-ring).
Then, drilled for the passage to connect into the crossbar post, and parted it off to length.
Drilled the crossbar hole, and test fitted everything. Looks good, ready to solder it all up (an oiled rod will be used to hold the upper/lower holders in alignment).
Other thing going on is that the weather here is in a warm cycle - nice and calm, no wind, getting up into upper 40s and 50s next couple days, so have started work again on fixing the leaks in the boiler. I got a session in on it this morning, will do a pressure test on it later today - think that this week will decide whether this is a nice display model run on air only, or will be fully capable of running on track under steam! When I started this project, I figured on a 50% chance of getting the boiler fully functional, seeing how I had never done any copper forming or silver soldering before. The way its going I think those odds are higher now - will see how well it does soon (either way I am happy with the engine!).
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Looking magnificent :ThumbsUp: :ThumbsUp: Those numbers must have taken some patience :praise2: :praise2: Still enjoying the build :popcorn: :DrinkPint:
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Very nice crueby!! Once you get a few of those things hung in the cab I'd be tempted to open and close valves and make choo choo noises :) Still following your amazing progress.
Bill
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FINALLY! got some big progress on the boiler - was finally able to cure those last pesky pinhole leaks and get it to hold pressure. :pinkelephant: There must be a good way to solve those pinhole leaks (that shoot a super-thin stream under pressure) - I have not found it yet other than repeated reflow. I am pretty sure that a lot of the problem was poor fit on the inside joint rings used to link the tube sections, and also on the strips that closed the tube rings. I was settling for a good structural strength joint, did not make enough effort to get a good tight fit all the way around like I should have. Oh well, still lots learned from first shot at a boiler! This one will spend most of its time as a display model, run on air, so that is acceptable - not worth going back and remaking the whole boiler. Lesson learned for next model though!
So, time to get it polished up and get the boiler jackets on and painted - looks like a session with the paint sprayer is coming up for the jackets, cab, smokebox parts. Will post some pictures when that is done....
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Congratulations on the successful boiler hydro. :cheers:
Dan
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That is great news...congrats on the successful boiler!
Bill
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That is great news...congrats on the successful boiler!
Bill
Thanks - had an excellent Belgian beer from a friend who owns a microbrewery - perfect way to celebrate! :DrinkPint:
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Hi Crueby, congratulation for this excellent test result.
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Pleased you got all the leaks sorted out. Been following your build and I never miss your posts.
Vince
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Thanks guys! Its a big relief to get past that milestone. Today I am going to get some paint on the cab and boiler shell, should really make it look different again.
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Glad you got the boiler finally sorted :ThumbsUp: :ThumbsUp: just an engine to make now :stir: ;)
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Its a great feeling to get the thing to hold pressure, I know that feeling!! Going thru the same with the engine but things are getting better. I really enjoy reading your posts.
Dave
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Glad you got the boiler finally sorted :ThumbsUp: :ThumbsUp: just an engine to make now :stir: ;)
Still a few weeks to the engine itself, gotta make the throttle, safety valves, steam dome, sand dome, and steam brackets. Getting close though!
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A great way to be winding up the year, well done on the pinholes. You'll be riding it soon... All the best, Hugh.
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I have the first coat of paint on the boiler/cab parts - needs some touchup in places after it dries. Looks like I'll be able to assemble those parts and get some pictures of it under the tree tomorrow...! Very neat way to wrap up the year as THS mentioned.
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Here is the most of the rest of the water gauge assembly - since last time got the last of the parts threaded and silver soldered together. First the mounting ring onto the main column, as well as the crossbars onto the glass holders (photo 1). Then, with a piece of rod as an alignment guide in place of the glass, soldered the rest of the parts on.
After that, made up the union nuts that go around the glass tube, and compress the o-rings at the ends of the tube. (photo 2).
Made up the top/bottom plugs, and test fitted everything (photo 3). Getting the tube, o-rings, and nuts all in is a bit fiddly, but it all works. All that is left is to make the valve stem for the drain valve at the bottom of the glass (water drains out of the little tube stub at the very bottom), and bend up/attach the tube that goes to the manifold. Cant do the tube till the boiler is back from the paint shop (corner of the basement) so I can work out the length and curve.
I also took some pictures before starting paint, of the boiler and cab in place. With the boiler jackets on it all looks great in raw brass, but I am going for the painted-real-train look (plus keeping all that brass shiny would be a pain!). Pictures of it painted should be up tomorrow sometime....
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All I can say is I don't think I have seen such a complicated project completed so quickly and with such skill ... Well Done
Cheers
Tom
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All I can say is I don't think I have seen such a complicated project completed so quickly and with such skill ... Well Done
Cheers
Tom
Thanks!
Maybe I saved up all that creativity and wasted meeting time from working at Kodak all those years and poured them into this project!!!
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Maybe I saved up all that creativity and wasted meeting time from working at Kodak all those years and poured them into this project!!!
This is a statement I can 100% understand. In my case it is still ongoing and it is an other comany. But may be some day .......
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Yesterday I posted a couple pictures of the engine before painting the boiler and cab - here are some shots after painting - going to let it set up for a few days before going back and picking out the edge of the floorboard/engine-cover plates in white, as well as the engine numbers on the cab and front plate. Still, looking like a train now - someone come get me in a couple hours, that will be enough time to sit and stare at it! Come a long way from the start of this back in June, very happy with how it has come along.
Again - thanks to all those reading along and encouraging/advising me!
Merry Christmas!!
Chris
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That looks just amazing crueby!!!!!! I am running out of superlatives here. I can only say well done!! :praise2: :praise2:
Bill
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WOW. And not finished yet.
Vince
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Thanks guys! Could not resist a couple pictures of it under the tree....
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Reminded me of the movie Polar Express.
Vince
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Reminded me of the movie Polar Express.
Vince
Now I've got to carve some polar bears, elves and reindeer to go with it!
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Nah....just finish a circle of track big enough to go around the tree so that next year we can have a video of you riding round and round the Christmas tree :) Fine looking tree by the way too !!
Bill
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Hope everyone got something better than old rusty swarf in thier stockings this year!
Back from holidays, got a little done in the shop - finished up the water gauge and got the blower valve done too - starting on the blowoff valve now.
First up was to make up the valve stems for the three valves. First, turned down some steel rod to the dimensions for the threaded area as well as the pointed valve portion at the end. (photo 1)
Then threaded the middle area (photo 2) and took the outer end down to size with the parting tool. (photo 3)
The blowoff valve stem outer end is a little different, it is drilled for a crossbar where the other two get handwheels. (photo 4)
To make the handwheels, I turned the shape of the rim into a brass rod and center drilled it to fit on the end of the valve stem (getting two rims out of this piece, so there is a second rim started behind the first). Then on the rotary table, drilled a series of holes just inside the rim. (photo 5). Switched to a small end mill, and took little nibbles out of the rim to make it easy to grip. (photo 6). Back on the lathe, parted off the first, and turned the center in for the second one before parting it off. (photo 7).
Finally, silver soldered the parts together to make the finished valve stems (last photo).
The site has a limit on how many photos I can upload at once, so splitting here to another post...
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Back on the fittings, needed to make up a couple bolts for mounting the water gauge and blower pipe. These bolts are drilled up through the threaded area and cross drilled under the head to form a steam passage. Started with a piece of brass rod long enough for the two bolts, and turned down/threaded/drilled each end. (phtoto 1)
Then switched the chuck over to the rotary table, and milled the flats into the middle section to form the hex heads on the bolts. (photo 2)
Drilled the cross holes, and parted the two bolts apart. (photo 3)
Next photo shows the first of these bolts holding the water gauge assembly onto the back face of the boiler. You can also see the copper tube from the top of the gauge going back to the manifold on top of the boiler.
Next up was the blower valve (which takes steam and runs it up the smokestack to increase the draft on the fire). One end was turned down and the hex shape milled in as before. (photo 5)
That gave a good surface to chuck in the lathe for turning down and threading the other end. (photo 6)
After cross drilling for the steam passage, next photo shows the valve ready to go. And... Swarf-Pucky!! Just noticed I had the wrong valve stem in the valve for the photo. Oh well, another wardrobe malfunction! (photo 7)
Last photo shows all the valves so far in place (with the correct handwheels this time!). Last up will be the blowdown valve, used to drain the boiler. That will be next time...
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Catching up on the last of the valve/etc bits in the cab area, got the blowdown valve made (very simaler to the other valves in last couple posts). One change I did from the book was that instead of just being a bit of tube for the exhaust hole, I made it a barbed tube fitting that I can use to attach a tube from the compressor or house supply at shows to run the engine on air. That way I can display it on air, using the normal throttle control without having to remove/replace any fittings.
Second photo shows the completed (for now) cab area - made up the firebox door from brass and steel. There are still more controls to come later - the throttle lever and reversing gear lever plus the valve for water supply from the axle pump.
Last few photos show the loco so far, now that I got the floor plate edges and numbers picked out in white paint - really makes the profile pop.
Next up is the throttle valve assembly, safety/snifter valves, and the steam/sand domes. The domes are larger than any brass stock I have, so they will be turned from aluminum (are not pressure holding, just trim pieces, and will be painted, so material does not matter).....
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Very neat fittings :praise2: :praise2: and the finished product is looking good :ThumbsUp: :ThumbsUp:
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As you said crueby, the white numbering and edging really makes things stand out...I love it!!
Bill
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Just out of curiosity, but what did you do to make those screw in fittings leak proof?
I am asking because shortly I might need to do something similar.
Vince
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Just out of curiosity, but what did you do to make those screw in fittings leak proof?
I am asking because shortly I might need to do something similar.
Vince
Hi Vince,
Combination of things. For fittings with a large enough flange on the bushing and fitting surfaces, I used viton o-rings or gaskets cut from sheet viton (both are readily available, even through Amazon who sell 100 count bags for a few dollars). Viton can handle pretty high temps, but not direct flame. In a lot of places used some high temp brush on thread sealant from the home center. Stuff I got was Block blue sealant. The instructions said to brush on and assemble, but it only worked for me on these small threads by brushing on the threads and letting it dry before assembling, otherwise it pushed out of the threads during assembly. For a quick seal on ones I was removing a lot during tests, used wraps of ptfe plumbing thread tape. Hope that helps!
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Hi Crueby,
You are making nice progress! You will find the barb on the blowdown valve a great place to add the water to the boiler as well when you steam her up! Didn't take me long to find a better way to put water to the boiler rather than use the hand pump! Still pays to check that the hand pump works every steam up!
Cheers Kerrin
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Time to throttle up the build... okay just time to make the throttle assembly.
Got started with turning down a disc of brass rod to size (first one side as shown in photo 1, then turned it around and took the other side down).
After that, drilled all the holes through for mounting to the bushing on the boiler, and drilled/tapped all the holes for the safety valves (2 of them), the snifter valve (which allows air to pass into the engine when the throttle is closed), and passages for the steam to come up from the boiler. Lots of holes in all directions, I'll leave that up to Kozo's book to show in detail - took lots of referring back to the plans to make sure it was all correct since there are several intersecting passages. (photo 2)
Last to drill was the passage for the throttle valve stem itself. The outer end of this is larger to take the bushing that leads out. (photo 3)
Fourth photo shows it all together, with the bushing silver soldered in place and the mounting screws sitting in thier holes.
Then I turned attention to the valve stem - the end of this is tapered at 12 and 30 degrees. (photo 5)
Once the end was done, turned down the rest of the stem to size (loose fit in throttle body outer hole). (photo 6)
Then, turned it around and threaded the end to take the clevis. (photo 7)
Last photo shows the pieces so far - next up will be to make the mechanism that threads onto the bushing, which holds the throttle valve stem in a spring loaded setup so that releasing the throttle lever in the cab snaps the throttle closed.
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Kerrin - you mention using the blowdown valve as a place to add water - do you use an external pump, or just a tube up higher than the top of the boiler with a funnel? In the book Kozo shows using the fitting under the sand dome to add water, though that means taking off a few pieces to access.
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First of the new year deserves some new parts! More of the throttle linkages done, ready to move on to the throttle lever end of things.
Started out making up a batch of clevises and link arms out of square brass. Marked out and drilled the holes (photo 1), and milled the openings for the arms. (photo 2)
One of the parts is a ring that slides on the throttle bushing, with arms that hold the linkage at one end and a spring at the other. This sliding arm is used to adjust the position and tension on the throttle valve stem when closed. So, drilled a hole in the end of a brass rod and turned the outside down to size. Then, used the mill to put a shallow slot in the side, turned it 180 degrees with the rotary table (the adapter that holds the lathe chuck to the table is a VERY handy item), and milled a matching slot in the other side. (photo 3)
In a piece of sheet brass, I drilled the outer holes in the arms, and milled a slot in the center that made a sliding fit into the grooves in the center ring. (photo 4)
With that part slid into the ring, it was silver soldered together. In the background is another of the arms in the linkage. (photo 5)
Next photo shows milling off the excess from the arms, to leave a tapered shape. Hard silver soldering is something I wish I had learned years ago - would have been able to make better parts much easier for a bunch of the earlier projects....
After filing the ends round, the armed wing was complete. (photo 7)
Last photo shows the parts so far. The holes in the arms closest to you get a spring, and the two left clevises will get a threaded rod sized to fit the distance to the throttle lever in the cab (to be made next).
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Got on a roll this morning/afternoon and got several parts for the throttle lever assembly made. First up was the lever itself, which is made from a turned handle silver soldered to a bar stock lever. The handle was freehand turned on the lathe, and smoothed out with files. (photo 1)
The reversing lever, made later on in the book, shares a lot of the same kind of parts as the throttle so I am making up two sets. Second photo shows the two handles after parting off and threading the end for a short piece of screw cut off a bolt that will be used to hold it to the bar for silver soldering. (photo 2)
Next up I clamped two lengths of bar steel in the vise and drilled/tapped the end to match the bolt sticking out of the handle. (photo 3)
Next photo (4) shows the two handles soldered up.
The throttle lever is a little shorter, and it has a stub sticking out the side to take the clevis from the throttle assembly. (last photo)
Next up is the locking lever - next post....
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Hi Crueby
She is looking great :praise2: :praise2:
Still following along down under.
Pete
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On to the locking lever, which holds the throttle in one of the preset positions that will be notched into the rails the lever rides between. This is a strange tapered/notched shape, so it was made on the end of a longer bar, and will be sawn off after the rest is shaped. Otherwise there would be no way to hold this little sucker. For scale, that is a 3/8" mill bit in the photos. Started out by taking down the two sides, to make a narrow tounge. (photo 1)
Second step was to drill the pivot hole in the side of the tounge. (photo 2)
Next up was to mount the bar at an angle in the vise, and mill a taper into the tounge side. All these milling operations were done with a series of light cuts, so I did not put too much stress on the part - did not want to risk catching it and bending it. (photo 3)
Then, turned the part over, set it to the angle needed, and milled in the taper on the base of the latch. (photo 4)
Last milling operation was to flip it over again and mill the final taper on the back side of the base. All these operations left a shape that looks a bit like a tiny snow shovel. The 'blade' end of the shovel will latch into notches in the rail, and the hole in the upper end will provide a lifting point for the moving handle. (photo 5)
Next photo shows the parts after milling, but before sawing off the main bar. You can see that there is one part on either end. One will be used for the throttle, one for the reverse lever.
After sawing off and cleaning up the ends, the two parts are done. You can see why it is neccessary to make them from the outer end in - otherwise way too hard to hold safely. (photo 6)
Last photo shows the parts next to the throttle lever itself, after drilling/tapping the rest of the holes in it. Well, most of them - there is one more guide block on the lever that I will make next time.
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Hi Crueby
She is looking great :praise2: :praise2:
Still following along down under.
Pete
Thanks Pete - glad you enjoying the show! :popcorn:
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Lots of work in these little parts but they look good crueby. That cab will be filling up with controls and valves and links of all sorts soon :)
Bill
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Hi Crueby, still following long, also from the other side of the pond.
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Thought I'd reply to the question about filling the boiler via the blowdown valve. On a lot of the 1.5" models I've seen the blowdown is threaded to take an adapter that allows a standard garden hole to be screwed on. Typically this adapter has a 1/4-NPT male thread and can be found at most hardware stores. It would probably be too large a thread to do directly to the blowdown at your scale, but a reducing bushing could work.
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Thought I'd reply to the question about filling the boiler via the blowdown valve. On a lot of the 1.5" models I've seen the blowdown is threaded to take an adapter that allows a standard garden hole to be screwed on. Typically this adapter has a 1/4-NPT male thread and can be found at most hardware stores. It would probably be too large a thread to do directly to the blowdown at your scale, but a reducing bushing could work.
That makes a lot of sense - thanks for the explanation!
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Going on with the throttle lever mechanism - now that the locking lever was made, needed to make the bracket that holds it in place. As with the lever, used a piece of steel longer than needed so there was a way to hold it, and slotted the end to go around the lever and the arm. (photo 1)
Then, needed a slot going crosswise for the 'shovel blade' part of the lever to sit in. I dont have a mill that narrow so I cut it with a jewelers saw (cut down each side, then across the bottom to remove the waste). (photo 2)
After that, I drilled the mounting holes (2-56 thread) in the bracket, and drilled matching holes in the lever arm. First drilled one, ran in a screw, and drilled the second to make sure they would line up. (photo 3)
Last two photos show the assemblies so far (the one at the top in the photo is the reversing lever, bottom is the throttle lever). Next up will be to make the little bracket/handle that activates the locking lever - that might be a few days, I have some work to finish up on an RC model for a run next weekend. This small work should be good practice for a model I want to make someday - one of George Britnell's Tiny engines.
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Miss a few days of this thread, there's another 27 chapters! Great stuff you've been doing, those levers came out well. Hugh.
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Miss a few days of this thread, there's another 27 chapters! Great stuff you've been doing, those levers came out well. Hugh.
Oh no! Now I am a soap opera!!! AAAAHHHH! :toilet_claw:
Ahem. Okay, I'm back. Nice thing about retirement, you work on what you want, when you want. :D
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Oh no! Now I am a soap opera!!! AAAAHHHH!
Will he? Won't he? Will Shay have duplicitous bearings? Will she blow her stack the first time Chris tries to kindle her fire? Stay tuned...
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Oh no! Now I am a soap opera!!! AAAAHHHH!
Will he? Won't he? Will Shay have duplicitous bearings? Will she blow her stack the first time Chris tries to kindle her fire? Stay tuned...
:lolb: Its all your fault crueby, you have us hooked on this great project and your dedication to it!! The throttle looks great BTW.
Bill
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I know for sure, he has to eat, sleep, and go to the bathroom, but, I also know he ain't spending a whole lot of time doing any of them and he damn sure ain't watching a lot of tele. Most amazing rate of a loco build I've ever seen and beautiful work to boot :ThumbsUp: :ThumbsUp:
E
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I know for sure, he has to eat, sleep, and go to the bathroom, but, I also know he ain't spending a whole lot of time doing any of them and he damn sure ain't watching a lot of tele. Most amazing rate of a loco build I've ever seen and beautiful work to boot :ThumbsUp: :ThumbsUp:
E
Eek! If you 'know' those things for sure, I am going to check my door locks! Good assumptions though.
If you guys really knew about all the other hobbies that have been going on at the same time as this build... (Scratch-Building an RC sub, kayaking, sailing, two archery leagues, pistol leagues, rifle league, woodcarvings, hiking, trips, reading, furniture building, naps in the sun, and yes watching TV) ... then you would really understand why I am so happily retired. No meetings, no pointy-haired bosses, plenty of time outside...! 8)
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With all that going on crueby...sounds like going to a regular job would be a vacation :) Though it is nice being your own boss I am sure.
Bill
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With all that going on crueby...sounds like going to a regular job would be a vacation :) Though it is nice being your own boss I am sure.
Bill
What freaked out my coworkers in the past was how much of this I did then, though no where near as much as now. It was obvious where I was going after work (or at lunchtime) when they saw the kayak on the car...
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Hi Crueby,
Sorry for the slow reply! Somehow missed your question re filling the boiler, I see Kvom answered it. Just to add a bit. The clubs here use standard garden hose to dispense water for locos, the source being either rain water in a tank pumped, or if the water is soft straight from the tap at what ever pressure. Usually the hose has no end so I have a quick fit fitting to fit the hose, then hook on a short length of hose, which has the corresponding fitting, the other end has a valve on it, ( you only get wet once before fitting one) this has a length of tubing that just slips over the blow down outlet. So just open the blowdown valve, then your valve & carry on with the startup lubricating etc while the boiler fill. hope this helps
Hanging out for the next update!
Cheers Kerrin
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This thread goes into my reference file. An excellent source of material.
Someday...some day!...I'll build a Kozo loco.
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Oh no! Now I am a soap opera!!! AAAAHHHH!
Will he? Won't he? Will Shay have duplicitous bearings? Will she blow her stack the first time Chris tries to kindle her fire? Stay tuned...
Time for the next episode of "Shays Of Our Lives" - Will Shay go for Tommy The Tank Engine? Will Shay play the violin again after her coma?.... The hit series is back after a short hiatus to prep an RC model for this weekend.
Anyway, on with the build!
Next up on the throttle/reverse levers is the moving part of the handle that actuates the locking lever. This is another small fiddly part, so am again making up the two pieces together as long as possible to have something solid and rectangular to hold in the vise.
Started out with a rectangular length of steel bar - drilled the end holes, and milled it down to the right width. (photo 1)
Then, turned the bar up on end and milled the slot in the end. This slot will allow the handle to fit over the main bar and the locking arm. (photo 2)
Turned the piece back on its side, and milled out the middle section. (photo 3)
That left the middle section parallel, and one side needs to taper in. (photo 4) So, angled it in the vise and milled one side to the taper then the other. (photo 5)
At this point, I have done about all I can with the pieces still connected. They were sawn apart, held with a small clamp and the tapered area was rounded over on one side on the grinder. After that, cut a little strip of sheet spring to size and drilled a hole in the end to hold it to the lever (to drill this spring stock, which is left over clock pendulum spring material, I clamp it between two pieces of wood and drill through the wood into the spring steel - only way to hold it I have come up with). (photo 6)
With all the parts assembled, the two lever arms are done. (photo 7) Last photo shows how pulling the two handles together raises the locking arm up in its slot.
Next up will be to make the sector rails that the levers ride in - those will have notches that the locking arms engage in....
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This thread goes into my reference file. An excellent source of material.
Someday...some day!...I'll build a Kozo loco.
It takes a lot of days to build one (8 months into this one so far), so start now - why delay the fun!?
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Time to make the sector rails for the throttle and reverse levers. They started out as a wide piece of flat bar stock, rough sawn to shape, and the second smaller rail piece was screwed in place using the same holes that will be used to hold the second rail and spacers later.
I got out the faceplate with a piece of wood screwed to it (same piece was used earlier to hold the firebox end plate), and drilled/tapped it for some 10-32 bolts to hold a crossbar to hold the rail in place for milling. With the pivot hole for the lever screwed to the middle of the crossbar, and using that screw as a reference, the whole thing was centered up on the faceplate. Then, milled the outer radius first, turning it with the rotary table. Stopped once the distance from the pivot to the outer edge matched up with the corresponding distance on the lever arm. (photo 1 and 2)
Then moved the table in and milled the radius on the inner edge of the second rail (mill was set to just skim the main rail piece). (photo 3)
With that done, came back with the mill lowered and nibbled out the inner radius on the main piece. Once that was done, just a matter of filing the ends of the rails to a even curve around the screws. (photo 4)
Same sequence was done on the throttle rail pieces.... (photo 5)
After all the rail curves were done, I used the same setup to mill out the bases to final shape. (photo 6)
Last photo shows the two sectors with base plates soldered on, and the lever arms all assembled. All that remains on them is to cut the notches for the locking levers to drop into...
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WOW. Those finished levers look amazing.
Vince
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I'll say! You just keep at it Crueby and you're going to have a finished Shay on your hands!
So many details, and all done so well.
Thanks for sharing Crueby,
Kim
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Great chapter! Hugh.
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WOW. Those finished levers look amazing.
Vince
I'll second that. Very nice.
-Bob
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Outstanding crueby!!! Those really look the part.
Bill
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Nice work Crueby!
They're beautiful!
Dave
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Thanks guys - am very happy with how they came out. From looking at the plans I didn't get how the spring action worked, trick is how high up the spring goes. It presses on the inside of the handle way up near the top, forcing it out.
Getting closer to the engine part of the build - another week or two...
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Yipee !!! Looking forward to the engine build as well :)
Bill
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With the throttle lever assembly done (sawed the slots in the sector for throttle position presets and made the connecting rod to the throttle valve, not much to see, just a rod), time for the two safety valves. Kozo calls out 2 valves, one set slightly under the other ones' pressure for redundancy.
I am making up both at once - this sequence shows one, the other is the same. Started out with a chunk of hex rod, and drilled the smaller through hole. (photo 1)
Then up to the larger bore for the steel ball (drilled then deepened it slightly with a D bit to form a back shoulder). (photo 2)
After that, bored the final outer section for threading. (photo 3)
Threaded that last part M7. (photo 4)
That completed the inside shape (Kozo's book shows it much better than I can here, recommend you refer to the book if you are making one). Final step at that end of the valve body was to round down the outside. (photo 5)
Turned the part around in the chuck, and turned the opposite end down to size (photo 6) and threaded it to match the threads in the throttle body. (photo 7)
Last photo shows the two safety valve bodies, with the steel balls that will later be fitted to an inner stem (next time).
In the book, Kozo says to use steam pressure to test/set the valves, that using compressed air will give wrong results. Anyone know why, which way that it would be off? Seems like the opening pressure would be the same either way, but I can see that the reset pressure might be different, maybe. Anyone out there have more experience with this behavior? For initial setting I will use air to get it set close, err on the low side, till I can get it tested with steam in the spring (too flipping cold to do much outside this time of year - has been about 5 degrees F recently!).
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What sort of pressure will the boiler operate on? Hugh.
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What sort of pressure will the boiler operate on? Hugh.
Max pressure is 100 psi - that is where the safety valves kick in. No load, the engine should run much lower.
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There are discrete differences in the unseating & reseating characteristics between air and steam for simple relief valves
The former is a gas, the latter can be considered as a fluid, however it is certainly safer and preferable to use cold water as the medium and have all air expelled from the boiler
If no pump is available, gentle heating :Mad: of the water filled boiler will also provide the expansion and intensified pressure required... Derek
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Derek - thanks for the tip!
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Hi All
Great work crueby. I can't get over how fast you get things done. After running my engine for a while it now runs on about 15 psi. As it turns out the problem was in the rings and as they were run in the pressure came down. I have a video on youtube of the engine running.
You will enjoy building the engine. It took me four tries to do the crank, but the final seems to run very well. Fortunately I used 12L14 so my mistakes were not that costly.
Looking forward to your posts
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Daveb,
Good to hear it is running well. Did you machine the crank from solid like in the book or build it up from pieces? I have had great results with built up ones, on two and three cylinder cranks, and am planning it for this one too.
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I built the crank using Kozo one piece method/ I am a beginner at machining and have followed Kozo pretty much for everything. That's one of the reasons I enjoy your posts because you have shown me different ways to do things. To bad you weren't ahead of me. Right now I am finishing up the Johnson bar controls. next week on to the cylinder cocks. You will probably be ahead of me at that point.
BTW where are you going to be running your shay?
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I built the crank using Kozo one piece method/ I am a beginner at machining and have followed Kozo pretty much for everything. That's one of the reasons I enjoy your posts because you have shown me different ways to do things. To bad you weren't ahead of me. Right now I am finishing up the Johnson bar controls. next week on to the cylinder cocks. You will probably be ahead of me at that point.
BTW where are you going to be running your shay?
I like the built-up method for the cranks since it is easier on my Sherline lathe/mill than the one-piece method. Aside from limitations on throw over the cross-slide, the interrupted cuts and deep parting tool use is a little much for the power of the Sherline at low speeds. With a built-up crank, I make the webs in pairs, with press-fit holes for the main shaft and offset rods, then cross-drill/pin/solder them for good measure. Both ways work fine, the built-up has less chance of a minor mistake wrecking it.
The only track I know of with a 3.5" gauge near me is one at a group over in Tonawanda (near Buffalo NY) that a friends father is a member at. I may build a temporary circle track in the garage or driveway for home tinkering. Mostly it will be a display piece on air - going to make a set of truck-lifts for it that will let it run while sitting on the display trestle, for showing neighbors and at shows.
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On to finishing up the safety valves. The inner stem for these is a steel ball held in a little holder on a shaft. To make, took a brass rod, drilled the end for the ball (drilled just over half as deep as the ball), and drilled through for the steel shaft it attaches to. Then, used the parting tool to notch down the end and the upper shank. (photo 1)
Parted them off, and inserted the balls. One was a nice snap-in fit, the other needed at drop of loctite to hold it in place. Teeny little parts! (photo 2)
Third photo shows the parts so far - the valve bodies and the ball holders.
Next up was to make the adjusting body - it screws into the main body, and guides the ball holder. A spring between them is compressed the more this part is screwed in. Started out by drilling the end for steam passage, and turning down the shank to size. (photo 4)
Then, turned it around in the chuck and threaded the opposite end, and turned down the little protruding nub at the end. (photo 5)
Last step on that part is to mill off the sides at the lower end, exposing the end of the steam passage a little. This was left a little short, will be adjusted by filing the sholder back as needed to get the blowoff and reset pressures right - will do that later on. (photo 6)
Next photo shows all the parts for the valves so far, just need to make the locking nuts.
Last photo shows the valves all assembled and on the throttle body. They will be covered by the steam dome, with holes in the top of the dome above each one to let out the steam.
Next up will be to make the snifting valve, that should be a quick little one, just a simple check valve. After that I can get started on the steam and sand domes.
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I belong to the Waushakum Live Steamers and we have a 2500' high-line. We'll have to have you down and we can double head. Can't let your engine become a mantle queen. We also have a member that has a 1.5" kozo shay running on 7.25 ground line.
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I belong to the Waushakum Live Steamers and we have a 2500' high-line. We'll have to have you down and we can double head. Can't let your engine become a mantle queen. We also have a member that has a 1.5" kozo shay running on 7.25 ground line.
Very cool - just looked up your web site, looks like a fantastic layout there! I'll keep it in mind for the next time I am travelling over thatta way, I go up to Maine and down to Connecticut every once in a while.
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One last bit for today - made the snifting valve, which allows air into the engine when the throttle is closed so it does not hit a sudden vacuum. It is a simple check valve, with a steel ball under a cap. When the throttle is open, steam goes up into the valve body and pushes the ball into the valve seat in the cap. When the throttle is closed, the ball falls/gets sucked down onto the end of the valve body, which has a slot so the ball cant seal against it.
First photo shows making the valve body from a piece of hex bar. Hole drilled all the way through for the steam passage, and turned down/threaded the ends. One end got a small slot cut in it.
Second photo shows the pieces made - you can see the slot at the right end of the valve body. The cap was drilled/threaded, and the bottom of the hole extended a little with a boring bar to leave a raised valve seat (a little past a square bottom hole) that was punched with a steel ball to form the seat.
Last photo shows both safety valves and the little snifting valve in place on the boiler. Ready to start the steam dome...
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Hi Crueby,
Making great progress, just one question, you refer to both the safety valves & the snifter valve having steel balls, I hope you mean stainless steel. On that note any studs used on the boiler should be stainless steel, the guy that built the my loco couldn't find any for the Regulator so used steel, drilling out 8 broken studs in the backhead of the boiler was character building to say the least!!
Keep up the great work!
Cheers Kerrin
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Looking great :praise2: :praise2: Still following along :popcorn: :DrinkPint:
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Hi Crueby,
Making great progress, just one question, you refer to both the safety valves & the snifter valve having steel balls, I hope you mean stainless steel. On that note any studs used on the boiler should be stainless steel, the guy that built the my loco couldn't find any for the Regulator so used steel, drilling out 8 broken studs in the backhead of the boiler was character building to say the least!!
Keep up the great work!
Cheers Kerrin
Definitely stainless steel for those valve parts. The boiler studs and nuts are all bronze, no steel on the boiler itself.
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No new work on tne loco today, I was at a class at the local welding/glass place. Class was in copper vessel raising, taking a flat sheet up to a bowl shape with hammering. Learned a bunch, lots of fun, made a nice bowl. Good skills for future models, plus a use for any leftover sheet stock.... If you have a welding/etc supplier near you, check out what classes they give.
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Your next boiler will be hand beaten? Hugh.
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:hammerbash:......aren't they all ths?.....[hand beaten boilers]
BTW how is the beautiful Hampden bridge?.....is all of the repair work completed?
60 years ago, :old: we [my family] stayed in a property 4 doors south east of the bridge......
Sorry crueby :facepalm: for the deviation in the thread .......Derek :paranoia:
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If you have a welding/etc supplier near you, check out what classes they give.
I never thought of that. I have a friend who is a sales rep. for welding supply firm. I will have to ask him if they offer anything. Thanks.
-Bob
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If you have a welding/etc supplier near you, check out what classes they give.
I never thought of that. I have a friend who is a sales rep. for welding supply firm. I will have to ask him if they offer anything. Thanks.
-Bob
I only found out here since a friend who does a lot of welding (he built his own airplane!) told me about it. The place here (Mahanies) has an addition out back where they teach blacksmithing, welding, glassworking, and jewelerymaking.
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Time to make the donuts!
Well, an aluminum one, anyway... The steam dome base started out as a bar of aluminum (did not have any brass that large, and it will be painted anyway, so I am using what I got). Drilled/countersunk the holes that the handrails will go in (visible at the taop of the first photo - the little hole in the middle/top), and then bored out the center to size, halfway through. (photo 1)
Then, turned it around and bored the other side out, a little smaller. The step that left in the center will be used to hold it for milling later. (photo 2)
With the center done, went back and turned the outside down. There is a step at the top for the steam dome to rest into, then a straight section that flares out to the outer diameter. After the rest is milled, that bottom thicker area gets filed down to flare into the shape of the boiler, just like the smokestack base did. (photo 3)
In the fourth photo, the base is sitting on the boiler where it will go around the throttle body. As you can see, it does not sit down on the curve of the boiler yet.
Here is where the step I left in the center bore gets used - turned a brass disc to fit the bore, and used that to bolt the piece to a square block held in the vise. In Kozos' book, he uses an angle iron to bolt it to the lathe faceplate for this step. My little Sherline does not have the throw to do this, so I am using the mill instead. I made a paper template of the top of the boiler, and transfered that to a wood block, which you can see to the right of the mill cutter. That curved top will serve as a guide for setting the depth/width of each pass on the mill. As long as I get close to the template without cutting into it, I will duplicate that curve in the base. (photo 5)
Next photo shows it after a set of passes with the mill - you can see how the curve is replicated in the base piece. I then took the little steps off with a sanding drum and filed it to a good fit on the boiler.
Last milling step was to cut a slot for the throttle valve stem to stick through. (photo 7)
Last photo shows the base test fit to the boiler/throttle. Still need to file the curve into the sides of the base - will show that next time...
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You can get a full 20 ft circle of track in 3-1/2" gauge for about $500 (plus about $100 shipping):
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Eight-Tracks-3-1-2-Gauge-20-foot-diameter-/160930874017
(http://i.ebayimg.com/00/s/NTI1WDcwMA==/$(KGrHqN,!oEFBc3By8-8BQqs0skQRQ~~60_12.JPG)
They are made of 1/4" x 3/4" steel bar and the metal ties are 1/8" x 1" steel. You then need to add the wood ties, and fasteners, and paint. I'd like to analyze the cost of the materials to see what it would come to as a DIY project. For each 48" section:
1/4" x 3/4" x 48" steel: $7.84 * 2 = $15.68
1/8" x 1" x 6" steel: $1.02 * 9 = $9.18
Total: $24.68
For 16 sections: $397.76
Those prices are from Speedy Metals, cut to size. Probably quite a bit less for longer pieces. So the $500 for complete sections is not bad. I have also thought that perhaps rectangular tube could be used for track, although it might be difficult to bend. A 48" section of 1" x 1.5" tube (0.120" wall) is $15.32.
If I took the time, effort, and money for a build such as this, I would sure want to be able to run it!
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PSTechPaul - I already have a set of aluminum rail I bought last summer - enough for about a 18' circle. I got it at the same time I bought the rail for the display base (the alum rail was cheaper than the nickel, but did not look as good, so I got a bundle of the alum. and 1 of the nice rail). Dont think I'd bother with the metal crossties, just would screw them to the wood - takes a little more care to get the spacing right, but a simple gauge would make it easy. For my setup, it would be on a paved area, so could use arcs cut out of ply for a quick temporary layout.
For comparison on your costs - from Switchcrafters.com you can buy rail in 6' lengths, 96' to a bundle, for about $50. A WHOLE lot less than buying steel bar. This rail is already shaped like real rail, so fastening it down is much simpler (screws vs welding it up).
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Thanks for the information on Switchcrafters. I can see that the prices are quite reasonable, but the largest size is Code 332 which is 0.322" high, compared to 0.75" for the 3-1/2" gauge. I had to do some digging to find detailed information on the size of track:
http://girr.org/girr/tips/tips4/track_tips.html (http://girr.org/girr/tips/tips4/track_tips.html)
http://www.model-railroad-infoguy.com/track-gauge.html (http://www.model-railroad-infoguy.com/track-gauge.html)
http://www.urbaneagle.com/data/RRstddims.html (http://www.urbaneagle.com/data/RRstddims.html)
I find the definitions of scale and gauge a bit confusing, but I think I have a pretty good idea. If your Shay is 1-1/2" scale (to the foot), it would be 1/8 scale. If it is 3-1/2" gauge, that would compare to full railroad standard gauge (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Track_gauge) 4 ft - 8-1/2" or 56.5", or 1/16 scale. The Code 332 for 1/16 scale would correspond to 5.35" tall rails. There is much variation in height of full size rails, but generally they are 4-1/2" to 6" high, so Code 332 is just about right for 1/16 or 3/4" scale or 3-1/2" gauge, while the Code 187 would be for an even smaller scale:
http://armypubs.army.mil/eng/DR_pubs/DR_a/pdf/tm5_628.pdf (http://armypubs.army.mil/eng/DR_pubs/DR_a/pdf/tm5_628.pdf)
I don't intend to hijack your thread, but I think this information is very informative and perhaps helpful in understanding some of the dimensions of the model. And I'm still not sure I have it right.
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Weren't most Shays and other geared locos based on the narrow gage standard of 3"? If I am correct in that it would factor into the equation as well.
Edit: I meant to say 3 foot not 3 inches.
Bill
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For the display stand I used the code 250, for the aluminum got the code 332, both look fine, and have plenty of clearance for the wheels. A .750 high track would be way too big. My shay is 3-1/2" gauge, at 3/4": 1' scale. At that scale, code 332 is equivalent to a 5.3" rail, which is correct. Code 250 is 4" equivalent, also in range. Easy to go off the rails with these calculations. Pun intended...!
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Weren't most Shays and other geared locos based on the narrow gage standard of 3"? If I am correct in that it would factor into the equation as well.
Bill
I think you are right. Logging tracks were usually temporarily built, and quite windy and steep in many places. See my earlier post about the trains at Cass WV for some videos, great place to visit if you have not been there yet.
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Just about done with the steam dome - just need to make the hold-down screw and the handrail stanchions. First up was to finish the base - last time had it fitted to the boiler, first photo here shows it after filing down the base to blend it with the boiler. Started with some coarse files (more of a rasp, really) and worked down to fine file an sandpaper to smooth it up. The hole in the side will be threaded for the handrail stanchion.
For the dome itself, started with another piece of the aluminum (that is hard to type!), turned a step in the base to match the base, and drilled a starter hole for boring out the center. The chamber in the center is to make room for the safety/snifter valves. It does not go all the way through, so the starter hole was made to same depth as finished chamber. (photo 2)
A bunch of shavings later, had the chamber half done. To make it easier to clear chips/shavings, I bored out the hole half-depth first, then went back and took it down to full depth (almost 1.5" deep). (photo 3)
After the inside was done, turned the piece around in the chuck, holding it with brass shims on the chuck jaws so it would not get marked up, and took the outside down to size at the top. Also, made up a card stock template for the curve at the top - this is important to follow, since going too deep could break through into the inner chamber. (photo 4)
A bunch of nibbling away at the outside, checking frequently with the template, and filing it smooth when the shape was reached, the outside shape is done. (photo 5)
Then, drilled the holes in the top - center for hold-down screw, outer ones for safety valves. (photo 6)
Last photo shows the completed dome sitting on the base. Just need to make the screw and the handrail stanchions, and it will be ready for paint.
Now, need to duplicate most of that same process for the sand dome. That one differs in two ways - much smaller chamber (just need room for water fill plug), and since that dome will sit on the tapered part of the boiler, the curve cut in the base will need to be done at a matching angle. Will probably use same setup, but with the vise on the tilt table - the same process should still work.
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That worked well, good result. I always find aluminium much easier to spell than aluminum. Hugh.
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So crueby, those holes in the top of the dome...are they just to let steam vent to the atmosphere should either of the pop valves go off? You are going to have a real functioning engine here before too long :)
Bill
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So crueby, those holes in the top of the dome...are they just to let steam vent to the atmosphere should either of the pop valves go off? You are going to have a real functioning engine here before too long :)
Bill
The holes serve a couple uses - let out steam from safeties, in air for snifter, plus room for adjustment on the safety valves which project partly through the holes. Getting close to starting on the engine, been looking forward to that! :cartwheel:
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Next up is the sand dome base, which sits over the water fill plug on the tapered part of the boiler. It was made pretty much the same way as the steam dome base, but since it has to sit on a slanted surface the piece needed to be tilted when milling the bottom.
Started out with another chunk of aluminum, bored out the center just like on the steam dome, and drilled/countersunk the holes in the sides for the handrail stanchions. (photo 1)
Then, tilted up the vise to 45 degrees and drilled the holes for the sand dispensing tubes. there are a pair of these on either side. To start the drill, used the mill to make a flat. (photos 2 and 3)
Back on the lathe, turned down the lip on the top and turned in a starting curve for the side bevel - this removes the bulk of the material possible on the lathe, saves filing time later on when blending the curve down to the boiler. (photo 4)
Then, back to the mill, with the base mounted with an inner disc just like I did on the steam dome (see previous post for that if you came in late). Again, like with the steam dome, made a card stock template of the curve of the boiler where the base will go, and fixed it in place at correct height next to the base. The base is held at an angle this time that matches the angle of the boiler top surface. (photo 5)
Next photo shows the piece from the side, to show the template in use. For each pass with the mill, I lowered the headstock a little, and cranked the table to the forward/back till the mill just touched the template, then ran the table across side to side to cut a step at that setting. On this base I used smaller steps, which should speed up the filing.
With the milling done, time to test fit the base on the boiler. Not bad, should not take long to get a close fit with some filing to smooth out the steps and match the curve - since the boiler is tapered, one curve wont fit exact at front and back of the base, so I got it close and will fine tune it with the files. (photo 7)
Last photo shows the two domes so far - really changes the look of it yet again. Next time I'll get the sand dome base fitted, and blend in the side curves like the steam dome is. Then, on to making the dome itself, which will be some straightforward lathe work...
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You have been giving that angle plate a workout crueby! I love it. Handy accessory to have for sure.
Bill
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You have been giving that angle plate a workout crueby! I love it. Handy accessory to have for sure.
Bill
Definitely, the tilt table and the rotary table have gotten more use than the lathe on this project!
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Coming down the home stretch to getting started on the actual engine (8 months in to this point). Made the handrail stanchions today - they are standoffs that hold the handrail around the top of the boiler. Started with some brass rod, drilled the cross hole for the rail, and threaded the end. (photo 1)
Then, moved the end out a little, and used the parting tool to cut into the shank for the post portion. The material is thin, so took in stages to get the whole shank done without bending it (next 3 photos).
Around the cross hole, used a combination of the parting tool and a small file to round the end before parting it off. (photo 5)
Sixth photo shows the handrails in place.
Last photo shows the handrails, plus the sand tubes from the sand dome in place.
Next up is to make the steam bracket/base, which form the mounting point for the engine on the side of the boiler. Kozo designed it so that the steam manifold to the engine is mounted on the side of the boiler where it stays hot, keeping the steam from condensing before getting to the engine. That will be the last piece before starting the engine parts (wahoo!).
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That worked well, good result. I always find aluminium much easier to spell than aluminum. Hugh.
You need to tell the spell checker that ;)
Still just about keeping up with your progress ::) I have always been interested in narrow gauge railways, especially the more 'rustic' ones and have followed the various US logging designs, Shay, Heissler, Climax, etc.
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The steam bracket and base are well along now - the base is a simple slab shape with one side milled out to conform to the curve on the side of the boiler. In the book, Kozo turns this curve on the lathe, holding the base on a long L-bracket on the faceplate. My lathe does not have the capacity for that, so I made a template from the boiler for the curve, and traced the curve onto the ends of the brass piece, and milled down to that. (photo 1) One thing I have had trouble with in the past on milling or cutting off one side of a large bar is the bar deforming as the side is cut away, due to the stresses in the metal from when it was rolled to shape in the factory. I have gotten in the habit on pieces like this of doing a stress-relieving operation on it, which is simply putting it in the oven at 500F for an hour, and letting it cool naturally. This gets rid of the internal stresses without changing the hardness - never had a problem since. After milling to shape, I transferred the locations of the mounting bolts already in the boiler to the piece and drilled matching holes in the base. Machining: process of removing all the excess swarf from bar stock to reveal the finished part.
For the steam bracket itself, this is another slab shape, but left rectangular. It has holes down the length for both steam inlet and exhaust, with passages running from those holes to each of the three cylinders. Started out drilling the exhaust passage. (photo 2)
Then, counter drilled the end to a larger diameter, (photo 3) and bored an even larger diameter at the very end. (photo 4) These larger sections are to take the exhaust pipe.
After that, it was a matter of drilling sets of holes into the passages at each cylinder. Lots of these, I will not show the entire sequence, better left to the plans in the book. Suffice to say, LOTS of holes, both in the face and diagonally up from the bottom to connect all the passages and to form mounts for the cylinders. (photos 5/6)
Last two photos show the state of the base and bracket at this point - still need to go back and silver solder in plugs in the extra holes, where passages were formed but need to be dead-ended. Also, will make up the steam inlet fitting for the top - will show that next time (out of time for the day, time to head off to archery league). One more day should wrap up these pieces, then its time to make the cylinders!
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The standoffs look great crueby. That's some fiddly work too cause I know how small the chuck is :). The handrail is a bit height on the boiler than I imagined but looks good also. You have done a LOT of work in 8 months!!
Bill
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The standoffs look great crueby. That's some fiddly work too cause I know how small the chuck is :). The handrail is a bit height on the boiler than I imagined but looks good also. You have done a LOT of work in 8 months!!
Bill
I went back and looked at the handrail - realized I had forgotten one of the slight bends near the front that lowered it near the stack - thanks! Comparing it to the heights on the cab, the walkway around the boiler up to the handrail distance makes it about a shoulder height, so should be right. It will blend in more once painted.
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All right - got the steam bracket finished (added the steam inlet, got the plugs silver soldered in). It will form the platform that the engine will build upon. (photo 1)
The cylinder stock starts out as some 1-5/8" brass rod (stress relieved along with the steam bracket base the other day), that is milled down to square (Kozo does this a lot for square or rectangular stock). I have a big chunk of that size that I picked up as a drop from Yarde Metals. So, first step was to set it up with the fly cutter and take down the sides till square (since I stress relieved it, no need to flip back and forth, could take down each side in full). Several passes per side later, and lots of chips to vacuum up, bar was down to size... (photos 2,3,4)
Then, rough cut the bar to length to give the three cylinder blocks - left them a little long to trim up in the lathe. (photo 5)
I mounted each one in the 4-jaw, centered up with a dial indicator, and squared up one end, then reversed it to square up the other. (photo 6)
With the blocks squared up, but still a little long, I measured the length of each one and marked the length on the side. Quick calculation to determine how much to remove off the end to get them all down to final dimension. (photo 7)
Then, put them back in the 4-jaw, and took them down that amount. Last photo shows the three blocks next to where they will mount on the steam bracket manifold. Note that they are not evenly spaced - the leftmost one will have the steam chest on the left, the other two will have the steam chests on the right. This means the first cylinder will have several of its ports/etc on the opposite side from the other two. In order to keep track of which is which I number stamped each one in the upper corner.
Next time - boring the cylinder...
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That's a lot of brass to chew off :ThumbsUp: :ThumbsUp: Finally on the engine, not long now :)
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Nice work Crueby
Looking forward to watching the engine take shape.
Dave
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Great start on the engine crueby. I am looking forward to this :)
Bill
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On to the main attraction: Act 1: The Cylinders
Last time I got the blocks for the cylinders shaped down to outside dimensions. Time for the 'boring' part. First up was to chuck the block up in the 4-jaw again, but this time offset towards one corner. (photo 1) The bore is offset to leave room for the steam passages and bolt holes. Since the number one cylinder block is facing the other way from the number 2/3 blocks, all of these operations took some careful checking to make sure I was orienting the blocks correctly (good time to be paranoid - Murphy is always out to get you!). Anyway, using the dial indicator each time, I offset the blocks the same amount in both directions (0.052", as I recall), and then drilled a starter hole for the boring bar.
Using the boring bar, I took the cylinders out to size, measuring both with calipers and checking final size with a test bar of the proper diameter. The last few passes were done with very light cuts, and very slow feed rate. (photo 2)
As you can see in the third photo, the resulting bore was mirror smooth (okay, photo is grainy, does not show it well - tough to get camera to focus in right spot!). The test bar fit nicely in each, if I plugged the bottom of the hole with my finger and dropped in the test bar, it floated down, and I could feel the suction when drawing it back out. Best I've ever had a set turn out - hope I dont mess up later on these!
Fourth photo shows the three blocks so far, in front of the manifold in the positions they will be. The steam chest for the left one will face left, and face right for the other two. You can see how the bores are offset to leave more material on the back wall and the steam chest wall.
Next steps were to make the steam passages. Kozo used a 1.5mm mill bit to cut the outer ones - I dont have one that small, so I drilled a series of 3 holes and used a micro bit in my high speed air tool (like a little dentist drill - I use it for detail wood carving) I connected up the holes to make a slot. For all these drilling operations, I set up the first block in the milll vise, using a straightedge to line it up at the edge of the vise. Then, once I had the position of the holes dialed in on the first block, I could swap out to the other ones and get the same result - saved a LOT of setup time (center/measure once, drill 3 times). (photos 5,6,7)
Next photo (8) shows milling out the passage in the center - that one I had a mill the right size for.
Going to break post here and start another - it only lets me upload 8 photos at a time....
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Continuing cylinder milling (photo 1 shows progress so far)
With the passages milled from the side, it was time to make the connecting passages. All the passages are at 20 degrees, so I set up the mill vise on the tilting table for them. Again, used a straightedge on the side of the vise to position the blocks the same every time so I could set up once and do all three blocks. Again, triple checking that I had the blocks oriented correctly! Started out with a mill to make a flat at the top of the cylinder. (photo 2)
Then, drilled the passage down till it met the slot cut in the face in the previous step. This was repeated for all three blocks, and at both ends of each block. Due to the offset of the bore, I could do the top hole for number 1 and bottom hole for 2 and 3 in one setup, then readjusted for the rest of the holes. (photo 3)
Next up was to make the passage for the exhaust, which comes in from the back wall of the block and meets the center slot. Again, started with a mill, (photo 4) and finished with a drill through to the slot (photo 5).
Last step was to make the steam inlet passage. Unlike many engines where the steam inlet comes into the steam chest cover, for space reasons the Shay has it coming in from the back wall of the block, exitting into the space inside the steam chest next to the valve slider. This was done with another angled hole in the back wall, (photo 6) and a vertical hole in the steam chest face (photo 7).
Last photo shows all the cylinders so far. Note how the number one block (on left) is a mirror image of the other two.
Enough for today (okay, some of this was done yesterday) - time to sit back and admire the work so far! :DrinkPint: Next up will be to start drilling/tapping all the mounting holes (lots and lots of them).
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Great work Chris, getting the bores exactly the same is quite a feat. I'll be interested to see how the connection for the steam inlet is done, but it may be remarkably straightforward. Hugh.
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Great work Chris, getting the bores exactly the same is quite a feat. I'll be interested to see how the connection for the steam inlet is done, but it may be remarkably straightforward. Hugh.
Very simple - the back face of the cylinder bolts to the steam bracket manifold, with the inlet and exhaust holes matching up. There is a gasket to seal it but no mechanical fittings. There will be a supply pipe from a boiler fitting to the manifold, the passages in the manifold split to the three cylinder blocks. Much simpler than the usual piping everywhere. The manifold also acts as the structural support for all three blocks. Neat how they designed it.
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Ahhh...
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Bunch more done on the cylinder blocks today - started out with drilling the holes for the cylinder end caps. There are four 3-48 holes at each end. To get them all lined up properly, and also to make sure the holes in the caps get drilled to match properly later, a jig was made (one thing Kozo shows in his book is great use of jigs - a real time saver, plus it ensures repeatability of placement on multiple parts). I took a piece of brass plate and bored a hole in it to match the bore of the cylinder. With the piece still in the 4-jaw so the hole was centered still, holes were drilled on the rotary table at the distance needed for the mount holes (all sized for tapping at 3-48). Then made a pair of stepped blocks for either end, with the narrow part of the step also matching the cylinder. Note that I made the top end cap deeper than needed - will show why later in this post. With a bolt running down the center, the pieces all sit on the cylinder block the same way each time (markings on the plate show which way to turn it to line up with the front edge). The first photo shows the jig in use, with the block held in the vise, but the vise just handheld on the table, so the drill would self-center in the hole.
Second photo shows the jig sitting next to the block to show the parts. Just a few minutes to make, but with it I was able to drill all the holes in both ends of the blocks, accurately, in just a few minutes - no more measuring/marking/etc needed. The same jig will be used later to position the holes in the end caps - they will be drilled at the tap size, then redrilled to open them up for clearance on the threads.
Next up was to make a drilling jig for the mount holes for the steam chest. There are 8 holes (all 2-56) in this jig. The same jig will be used to drill holes in the cylinder blocks, the steam chest frames, and also the steam chest lids. With the jig, all will line up correctly (as long as I position the jig right way up each time, I guess!).
Next photo shows the jig in use, clamped to the cylinder block over the face with all the steam ports on it. The clamps I am using have copper jaws, so they wont mar the surface of the bore (not clamped too hard, just enough to hold).
Fifth photo here shows the progress so far - all the holes drilled/tapped (took some breaks during the tapping process - tired fingers leads to broken taps at these small sizes). The two jigs are shown in front.
Last step was to round over the front corner of the blocks on the side away from the steam chest. There are no passages in this area, so no need to keep all that material - in the real thing this would have been cast that way. The end-cap drill jig played another use here, as an arbor to hold the block in the 3-jaw chuck on the rotary table. This is where that deeper end of the jig came in handy - made enough room to grab it in the chuck while holding the block out a little from the jaws so I would not hit it with the end mill. I took off the corner in a series of light cuts, down to the point where the curve blended into the remaining side. (photo 6)
In the right block in the seventh photo you can see the surface left - not bad, but not too smooth. I got out my diamond-surfaced lapping plates (use them for sharpening my wood carving chisels), and used that to smooth down the faces of the block. With some oil on the plate to float off the removed brass, I held the blocks down and ran them back/forth while slowly rotating them through the curved face. Couple minutes and it left a nice polished surface. Then I did the same on the other flat faces of the block, which smoothed out any protrusions left from drilling/tapping. I spent some careful time on the face where the steam chest goes, to get a nice flat polished face for the D-valve to slide on.
Last photo shows the complete cylinder blocks and steam manifold, ready to make the steam chests....
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All is plain, looks great. Hugh.
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Jumping right in on the engine sure hasn't slowed you down one bit crueby !! Its looking great so far.
Bill
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Got a start on the steam chests today. Started out by cutting down/milling square to length some flat bar stock - had to take a couple mm's off the side but thickness was good. (photo 1) This bar was enough to get all three valve chests out of - it was cut into thirds, each squared up to length with the mill.
Then chucked it up in the 4-jaw on the lathe - first centered it then offset to the side so that the valve shaft will be far enough from the side for the D-valve to fit. (photo 2)
After that, turned down the end to form the boss for the o-ring holder (the valve shaft is sealed with an o-ring, with a holder ring going into the hole in the end). The hole in the end was drilled for the o-ring size, then a smaller hole farther in for the valve shaft. (photo 3)
Turned the block around, and drilled/tapped a hole in the other end for the oil pipe inlet fitting - the axle pump on the front truck pumps oil up to the steam chests (the way it is ratcheted, the pump only delivers a drop of oil every so many turns of the wheels). (photo 4)
Next step was to drill/tap the hole for the set screw that keeps the o-ring holder in place. since it was so close to the main part of the valve chest, I had to dig out my smallest center drill to start the hole (photo 5) then drill for the 2-56 thread (photo 6).
Last photo shows the valve chest so far, with the center marked out for the opening which will be milled out after I get the other two chests up to this point.
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Continuing on the steam chests, set up in the mill and drilled corner holes for the opening in the center of the chests. Easier to accurately locate these holes and mill to them than to mill blind and try and match the edge locations. (photo 1)
After the holes were all drilled, switched to an end mill and cut out the center section, taking three passes to go the full depth. In the second picture you can see the block cut out from the center.
Third photo shows all three steam chests so far - ready to drill mounting holes.
With the steam chest clamped together with the same drill template used for the cylinders, making sure the orientation is correct (stamped numbers on the chests to match them with the cylinders), drilled through with a 2-56 tap size drill. (photo 4)
Then, removed the template and clamped the cover plate on the steam chest, went back and drilled out the holes to a 2-56 clearance size, going through both the chest and the cover - in this case, the steam chest acted as a drill guide for the cover. I had tried clamping up the chest, cover, and guide all at once, but it was too hard to line up properly - this worked out just as easy. (photo 5)
Last photo shows all the engine parts so far, with the chest/cover/cylinder all bolted together on number 3 (right end). Naturally, no matter how many screw sizes you have, you always need an in between length - had to cut down some 3/4" long ones to fit. Which Murphys' law is that one?
Anyway, great progress this week - next up are the cylinder heads and steam chest stuffing boxes.
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With the valve chest bodies done, on to the head caps: turned them down from brass bar, with a step on the end that matches the cylinder bore. Then parted them off - used the steady rest for the first ones since the bar was sticking so far out from the chuck. (photo 1)
The rest of the bar was used to make the stuffing boxes - again, turned the end down to match the cylinder bore (they have protrusions above and below the flange - in the next photo it is the bottom side with the larger protrusion showing). Then, drilled for the piston rod and also a larger diameter hole for the o-ring. (photo 2)
Third photo shows making the upper step, and parting off from the bar.
With the caps/boxes turned to shape, last step was to use the same drill template from the cylinder blocks to drill the mounting holes in them. The stuffing boxes also get a cross-hole for a set screw in the bottom protrusion. (photo 4)
Next couple photos shows the engine assembly so far. Really taking shape quick with just the first few parts. And then a couple photos of it test mounted on the side of the boiler...
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On to the crosshead guides. These frames connect the cylinders down to the crankcase, guide the crossheads, and hold the slides for the valves. So far I've gotten the main tube portion done, lots more to go on them....
Started out with some large brass bar stock (stress relieved since they will be milled out to open-frame columns in the middle) in the lathe, held up with the steady rest. I squared up both ends, measured the lengths, and figured out how much more to take off one end to get them down to final length. (photo 1)
Then back in the lathe, took off that much, and drilled a starter hole, and bored them out to size (matches the cylinder bores). (photo 2)
Once all were the right length and bored to size, took off the steady rest and inserted one end of the jig used for drilling the cylinders - made a handy piece to hold the end of the live center to steady up the piece for taking it down to final diameter. (photo 3)
I did one end, flipped it end for end, and did the other. (photo 4)
Fifth photo shows one down to outside size, one on right still to go. Note that they are stamped for which cylinder they go with - I like to keep them in sets, in case there is any fine fitting/tweaking needed, they will be taken apart/put together a bunch of times during the build.
Next photo shows drilling the mounting holes, using the same drill jig from the cylinders. Same goes at both ends - same pattern used for the crankcase end. The lines down the center are to align the top/bottom holes with each other.
Last photo shows progress so far. The middle one has some guide lines on it, am figuring out the milling needed for the next step which turns them into open columns...
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I think I missed checking in yesterday crueby. Man...those cylinders and steam chests sitting in the loco look fantastic. Your progress still astounds me!!
Bill
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I think I missed checking in yesterday crueby. Man...those cylinders and steam chests sitting in the loco look fantastic. Your progress still astounds me!!
Bill
Just wait till tomorrow, I have the first half of the crosshead guide columns milled out, they will look great!
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Hey crueby....beautiful machining work displayed for the engine :ThumbsUp:
1. The reason for the PM was that I didn't want to ask a question :Director: on the WEB site that is questioning your build
2. There seems to be a huge amount of brass/bronze mass in the engine build that will be a huge thermal condensation soak [and difficult to insulate] prior to getting relatively dry steam to the cylinder/pistons :headscratch:
I am certainly looking forward to see each days progress.....Derek :cheers:
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Hi Derek,
My guess is that is why Kozo designed it so the engine is bolted to the steam manifold which is bolted to the side of the boiler, so the boiler would warm the engine as it warms up to build pressure. I dont have direct experience on that - anyone else out there who does, please chime in on this question. Lots of these engines were built by others, so it must work out.
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I think I missed checking in yesterday crueby. Man...those cylinders and steam chests sitting in the loco look fantastic. Your progress still astounds me!!
Bill
Absolutely, me too :ThumbsUp: :ThumbsUp:
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Me as well. Excellent work.
How many hours a day are you in your shop Crueby?
Tom
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Must be at least 30 hours a day Tom :lolb:
Bill
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Actually it is usually 3 or 4 total per day, though getting on a roll in the shop can cause time warps that make the clock spin up to the 30 hours a day mark!
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Been a productive morning - got the rest of the crosshead guides machined out. Last time I had them to diameter and bored through the center, this time set up in the mill and took out the center section on each side, leaving two 'columns' holding the rings at either end. The first operation had it set up in the vise, using the screw holes at the end to get it level - was a good double check when the mill broke through the screw holes evenly all the way around while taking down the surface. (photo 1)
After the first side was done, put in a couple of square bars as a reference, so that the second side would get milled parallel to the first, and milled out the same amount. That left a 10mm thick column on either side. (photo 2)
Then, set it up with the columns held between spacers, and milled the sides of the columns flat. (photo 3)
The tops of the columns got a small recessed rectangle - this is not used for any fittings, but makes it look like the original castings. Below the recess will be a fitting for the reverse gear. (photo 4)
Last step was to drill/tap a number of holes for mounting fittings for reverse gear and valve guides. (photo 5)
Last three photos show the engine parts so far test assembled (sure it will be apart/together again many times before it is all done). Really looking like an engine now. The bottoms of the columns get bolted to the crankcase, which comes next in the build. That part is built up from a bunch of pieces, should be interesting to do. For now, time to sit and stare at the shiny pieces so far! :DrinkPint:
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You were right crueby...those do look great !!! The engine is progressing rapidly but why should that be a surprise :)
Bill
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You were right crueby...those do look great !!! The engine is progressing rapidly but why should that be a surprise :)
Bill
I'm constantly left breathless, but it's a great thread, and I'll miss it when it's gone. All good Chris.
Cheers, Hugh.
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8)
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Thanks guys!
Today was a stock prep day - the crankcase is made up of 4 thick blocks, an angled top plate, and two side plates. All are non-stock widths, so had to mill down the next size up.
In the first photo, I had the two side plates milled to length, and was taking them down a few mm's to the planned width.
Then, milled the top plate to length, and needed to take the sides down a little and also angle them to 11.3 degrees. This is the angle of the sides of the finished crankcase. To put on the angle, I got out the handy tilt table, mounted the vise on it, and took down the edges with the mill. (photo 2)
Third photo shows an end view of the top plate with the edges beveled. I left the tilt table set to the angle, since the same angle will get milled into the blocks later, and leaving it set I could be sure to be able to duplicate it again.
Next up was to mill down the blocks to dimension - had to take off a little in all dimensions for this. (photo 4)
Last photo shows the parts so far. Still need to angle the sides of the blocks and put a step in them for the side plates to sit in. Then they will all be screwed together for silver soldering and further milling. Thats enough for today - back at it tomorrow or the next day, got some work to do on the submarine for next RC gathering....
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Amazing output crueby.
-Bob
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Cranking along - got the pieces for the crankcase fitted up today. Started out by taking the thick blocks and drilling a hole down each side for an alignment pin in a portion that will be milled off later. The pins were a push fit, so they would hold all four blocks in position so I could mill the profile of all together (this is Kozo's method, I can't take credit for it!). To get the holes in the same place in all the blocks, I set up the mill vise for the first one, with the block aligned with a straightedge on the side of the vise, locked down the table, and drilled each block one by one. Then set up for the other hole, and did the same process. They all fit together well, with just a tiny variation from one to the next. Kozo allows for this in his process by leaving the blocks a millimeter oversize to this point. I then used the fly cutter to smooth off the top/bottom of the block set, taking them down to final thickness. In the first photo you can see the pins in the blocks at the lower left/right corners.
Next up, got out the tilt table again (still set at the 11.3 degree angle from milling the bevel on the top plate edges), and clamped in the stack of blocks for milling the sides. This recess will hold the side plate on either side of the crankcase. You can see in the second photo the outline drawn on the side of the block of where the milling will go - this was mainly as a double-check that I had the blocks set right way up in the vise each time, the actual milling was done to measured depths not to the lines.
Third photo shows the first step milled in. You can see where the alignment pins are at the top/bottom corners at the front. After this step I turned the blocks over and milled the step on the other side.
Once both the steps were milled in, it was time to mill off the areas with the pins, forming the shoulders that will be at the bottom of the crankcase, level with the side plates. As you can see in the fourth photo I held the blocks with a machinist clamp for this process to make sure the blocks could not shift. This completed the shaping for the blocks.
Fifth photo shows all four blocks set in place to check that the tapered sides matched up with the tapered edges of the top plate.
Then it was time to fasten the blocks to the top plate to hold them in place for silver soldering. I measured out and clamped the end blocks in place for drilling/tapping some temporary screw holes - took some careful fiddling to get them both square to the plate and lined up flush with the beveled edge of the top plate. (photo 6)
Seventh photo shows the assembly with the side plates also drilled/tapped/screwed in place. The side plates were much easier to align, since the four blocks were already held by the top plate.
Last photo shows the engine sitting on the crankcase to double-check the spacing. Next step will be to silver solder up all the joints in the crankcase and then cut/file off flush all the screw heads. At this stage, you can get a feel for how the full engine will look, even though there are still several dozen more parts to make.
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Hi Crueby, the speed you are making the parts is incredible. Are you working around the clock each day of the week ?
Anyway it is a real pleasure to follow along and see it growing. Great job. Thanks for sharing all these pictures with us.
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Hi Crueby, the speed you are making the parts is incredible. Are you working around the clock each day of the week ?
Anyway it is a real pleasure to follow along and see it growing. Great job. Thanks for sharing all these pictures with us.
Nope, just a few hours per day most days, sometimes 5 or 6 in a day, sometimes none. Easy to spend more time on it these winter days when it is so cold/windy outside! In the summer I'm out in the boats mostly.
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This morning I braved the cold and went out and got the crankcase frame silver soldered up (going to be really nasty out next couple days, so wanted to get it done before the storm rolls in - we are going to get the north side of the one rolling through Chicago on its way to NY and Boston). Once it was all soldered up it went on the mill to true up the top/bottom surfaces and take them to final size. There was a slight warp (few thou) that the heating introduced, this took that out again. It was bolted directly to the mill table with bolts/t-nuts through holes in the top plate (in places where the plate will be bored out for the con-rods later). Since the t-nuts on a Sherline stick up above the table slightly (silly design) I had to put in some bars to raise it up - those are visible at the bottom of the crankcase in the first photo.
In the second photo I have laid out the openings in the sides of the case, and am milling them out. The angled sides are stepped at this point, they will be smoothed out two photos down...
Next I mounted it in the vise, and milled the small flat at the top corners. (photo 3)
Last step in this session was to angle the vise so I could smooth out the angled sides on the openings with a small mill. (photo 4)
Fifth photo shows the crankcase progress so far.
That finishes up the current steps - more shaping/drilling next time, when the bearing caps are made and fitted. Last photo is the money shot, with the engine sitting on the crankcase...
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Every step closer to a running locomotive :ThumbsUp: :ThumbsUp: Still following along and enjoying (but sometimes hard to keep up) :drinking-41:
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Nice job there, I'm looking forward to seeing it on the loco. Hope that the cold doesn't hold you up too much, I don't know how you poor folk can live in such conditions! Cheers, Hugh.
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Now THAT is looking like an engine!!! Well done crueby :praise2:
Bill
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Very cool and Inspiring! Keep on at it, I'll be watching!
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Nice job there, I'm looking forward to seeing it on the loco. Hope that the cold doesn't hold you up too much, I don't know how you poor folk can live in such conditions! Cheers, Hugh.
It's not so bad, only another foot of snow overnight... :censored:
We have lots of cold, maybe I can mail you some! Can you send some global warming up here?
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Can you send some global warming up here?
Ours seems to have gone off the boil this last week, but you'll have plenty of your own presently enough. Hugh.
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On to the bearing caps for the crankcase. Started with a piece of rectangular brass bar, milled it down to dimensions with it left long enough to get the four caps out. Then, set it up in the vise with the top edge sticking out and milled out the flats on either end of the caps. (photo 1)
Switched over to the drill chuck, and drilled out the mount holes (2-56 tap size). These will get opened up to 2-56 clearance later, for now they will act as drill guides for the holes in the case. I stamped each one with a number to match the posts on the crankcase, in case there were any differences cap to cap, and sawed them apart. No need to mill the ends square, that will be done after they are in place. (photo 2)
Then marked centerlines on the crankcase, and one by one clamped them in place and used them as drill guides to drill the holes in the posts. (photo 3) After that, tapped each hole to 2-56.
With all the holes tapped, it was time to go back and open up the holes in the caps to the clearance size. (photo 4)
Last operation was to bolt all the caps in place, nice and tight, and with the crankcase bolted to the mill table again it was time to take all the caps/posts down to final dimensions. Got it squared up on the table, and first milled off the ends of the caps even with the edges of the posts. Then, took a light cut on the end of the case - that surface acts as a measuring point to all the rest of the sides. After zeroing the handwheel at that setting, cranked out to each of the other posts and did the corresponding side. The posts were all left about a millimeter thicker than needed, to allow for any variance during soldering them up. Again, this is Kozo's method, I did not think this up myself - worked like a charm. (photo 5)
With the right sides of the posts all done, I went back and took the left side of the first post down to thickness, and used that point as the start to crank over to each of the others. (photo 6)
Next photo shows the crankcase sitting under the engine to show current state - one thing that I am going to do beyond what Kozo shows is to mill in a small flange around all the lower openings. I saw that flange on the real trains down at Cass WV, and I think that little detail will look good on the model too. Will do that after the rest of the machining on the crankcase.
The next step is a biggie - drilling for the main bearings for the crankshaft. The last photo shows how I am setting this up, on the mill with the crankcase bolted to the tilt table (drilled/tapped an extra set of holes in the table to match the holes in the crankcase). The mill column is JUST tall enough for the drill to fit - glad I went for the taller column a couple years ago. Kozo did this operation on the lathe with an angle bracket to hold the case - my Sherline is just not big enough to do it that way, so I will use the mill. Going to have to make an extension for the center drill, and spend some time to ensure everything is squared up properly. That will be tomorrow probably - want to start fresh in the morning, one goof and the case is scrap.
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Crueby, I may have asked this before and if so forgive me. Do you have the extended column for your Sherline mill?
Bill
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Hi Crueby
Been following along, and thoroughly enjoying it! You sure are burning through this one.
Looking forward to more.
Cheers, Joe
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Crueby, I may have asked this before and if so forgive me. Do you have the extended column for your Sherline mill?
Bill
Yes, couple years ago I replaced the std column with the taller one. The std column runs out real fast when stacking up tools, like rotary table, four jaw chuck on bottom, and drill chuck with a 3/8" drill bit. With all that, no room left for a workpiece. The longer column is 15" high, plus base. Much more useful.
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Hi Crueby
Been following along, and thoroughly enjoying it! You sure are burning through this one.
Looking forward to more.
Cheers, Joe
Thanks Joe!
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This morning I got the setup for the crankcase bearing drilling all squared up, and made an extension for the center drill. The extension allows me to center drill each bearing post, drill it out, and center drill the next, to keep from wandering down the length of the crankcase. Kozo drilled out with a large drill all at once, I have found that I get better results if I drill with about a 1/4", and open it up with a series to 3/8" - reduces the chatter and irregular hole shape at the tops of the holes. The first three photos show the sequence of center drill, main drilling, and reaming to final size.
The fourth photo shows the crankcase with all the holes drilled through. These holes will hold bronze bearings, with a 5/16" main shaft.
With that operation done (phew!) it was time to drill the mount holes to hold the crosshead guides. Once again, the same drill jig made for the cylinder caps originally was used to locate the holes. As he points out in the book, this makes a total of 84 holes located with this one jig - well worth making it since it made drilling the holes very quick and accurate.
Last two photos show the engine parts so far test fitted together and assembled on the loco. At this point I am using socket head screws for easy assembly/dissasembly during construction. Final assembly will use hex head screws.
Good progress for this morning - next up will be to mill the conrod/valve rod holes in the crankcase, as well as lubrication holes for the bearings. After that I will add the flange shapes to the edges of the case....
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That looks amazing crueby!! Looks like even with the added headroom on the Sherline though, you didn't have much too spare, but you got the job done and that is what matters!!
Bill
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That looks amazing crueby!! Looks like even with the added headroom on the Sherline though, you didn't have much too spare, but you got the job done and that is what matters!!
Bill
Just barely enough room - I did have to switch from the screw-in drill chuck holder back to the drawbar holder to get the last 1/8" needed to get the drill bit in!
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Down the home stretch on the crankcase. Set it up in the tilt table again, at 40 degrees, at bored for the oil fittings that run down to the crankshaft bearings. Started with a mill to get a flat spot for the drill to start, (photo 1) and switched to the drill to make the holes. A smaller drill went all the way through to the bearing holes. (photo 2) A set of rods with holes down the center will be added in a couple steps, below.
Next up, bolted it back on the mill table and milled out the holes for the con-rods and, for the middle cylinder, the valve eccentric opening. As the holes were bored out, the bolts were moved to make room for the next hole to be milled. (photo 3)
Last milling operation was to back bevel the sides to give clearance for the valve eccentrics and the con-rod bearings. Nice that Kozo gives the dimensions for these cuts, saves trial and error later on. (photo 4)
Last two photos shows the complete crankcase. The oil tubes are in place (loctited in), plus I took it up to the other shop and got the front face shaped back a little around the openings on the front, to put in the flanges at the openings that the real ones have. Small detail but I think it will show off the shape better once it is painted. I used a diamond grit dental bit in a high speed air tool (about 450,000 rpm) that made short work of it. A little sanding to smooth it out, and also rounded the upper edges where the sides go into the top.
Next up will be the bronze bearings, then on to the crankshaft itself!
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Crueby, you must be a Star Trek fan!! Remember the episode where Spock stayed in one time warp while Kirk and the rest of the crew went back to regular time. To them it appeared that Spock was effecting repairs to the Enterprise at a super-human pace...kind of reminds me of you on this build. Whatever time warp you are in, keep it up. As one of those on the 8-5 day shift, your progress is awesome for sure :)
Bill
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Crueby, you must be a Star Trek fan!! Remember the episode where Spock stayed in one time warp while Kirk and the rest of the crew went back to regular time. To them it appeared that Spock was effecting repairs to the Enterprise at a super-human pace...kind of reminds me of you on this build. Whatever time warp you are in, keep it up. As one of those on the 8-5 day shift, your progress is awesome for sure :)
Bill
Definitely a Spock fan. Sometimes I'd like to switch with the evil alternate-universe version, like when a telemarketer calls in the middle of milling....! Or calls at all... Telemarketers and spammers should be used as cannonballs.
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Now while you are giving her all she's got Scotty, I hope you are taking time to keep up with the soap operas :lolb:. How much time do you figure you save by just having to make a part once as compared to the rest of us mortals who may have to make one two or three times ;)? Now what's up with this "other shop" with the high speed dental tools? You ain't Doc Crueby is ya? :Jester: Seriously, great work :ThumbsUp: :ThumbsUp:
Eric
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Now while you are giving her all she's got Scotty, I hope you are taking time to keep up with the soap operas :lolb:. How much time do you figure you save by just having to make a part once as compared to the rest of us mortals who may have to make one two or three times ;)? Now what's up with this "other shop" with the high speed dental tools? You ain't Doc Crueby is ya? :Jester: Seriously, great work :ThumbsUp: :ThumbsUp:
Eric
Soap operas?! Shoot me now!
I do save some part costs by remachining failed parts from previous projects!
Lets see, shops:
1. Model/machine shop in back bedroom downstairs, building Shay there, also used for ship models
2. Basement carving area with rotary tools and fan box for animal/bird carving in wood
3. Basement area for woodburning carvings, adding feathers, hair details
4. Basement area with stonecarving bench
5. Upstairs wood shop (entire upstairs on center entrance Cape Cod style house is workshops) used for furniture buikds, also for boats (canoes/kayaks, also prep area for sailboats)
6. Upstairs area for scrimshaw work plus detail carving with air dental tool
7. For bigger boats, garage gets reused for shop in summer.
8. Front lawn for sanding furniture/etc in summer
That enough shops? Works for me!!! Only way to fit more in and still have rest of house for living would be to get a Tardis! Gotta have a dozen or two hobbies or you turn into a soap opera lump. Ick!
Chris
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I think you've far too much time on your hands. You should get a hobby. Hugh.
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I think you've far too much time on your hands. You should get a hobby. Hugh.
Hey, that might help, have to go shopping for one! I had one of those 'job' hobby things for several decades, but was finally able to give it up! :whoohoo:
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Magnificent work on the Shay :praise2: :praise2: I'm not sure that you have quite enough hobbies to fill your time :stir:
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Back in the shop this morning, and got a start on the crankshaft bearings. For those of you who think I live in the shop 47 hours/day, I was not there at all yesterday and only an hour and a half today! :P
The bearings are made from bronze, and are shaped like a spool to fit in the crankcase posts/caps. Started out with a bronze bar a few sizes larger than the bearings will be, to leave room to split it lengthwise. First, milled flats on two sides to make it possible to grip the two halves in the vise later. (photo 1)
Then, hacksawed (hacksawned? hacksawnded? Cut!) down the center of the bar, and milled the inside surface of both halves back flat again (used a parallel bar underneath so the new flat would be parallel to the outside). (photo 2)
The two halves were then soft soldered back together again, and the outside flats given a light pass in the mill to even them out - could not get them perfectly aligned when soldering. The bar was then cut into two shorter pieces so it would not stick too far out of the chuck. Each piece is long enough to get out two bearings while leaving enough to hold in the chuck. (phtoo 3)
So, chucked up the first piece in the 4-jaw, and kept adjusting till the solder line down the end crossed the center point of rotation, and drilled/bored out the center to the size of the crankshaft. Kozo recomends boring the hole vs drilling/reaming, since the reamer would tend to force the halves apart. I believe it, since when I drilled the starter hold for boring it did crack the solder joint, had to clamp/reheat it to get it back together again. (photo 4)
After boring the center out, switched to the parting tool to nibble out the center section of the outside to form the spool shape - the flange at either end will fit over the crankcase posts/caps. When that was down to size, and just wide enough for the cap to fit down over it, the bearing was parted off. (photo 5)
Next photo shows the two halves of the bearing test fit in the cap and a piece of the rod for the crankshaft. You can see how it overlaps the sides of the cap, and also how thin the bearing is.
Last photo shows the first bearing in place on the crankcase. One down, 3 more to go....
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Looking good :ThumbsUp: :ThumbsUp: How did you get on drilling the bronze? I have found it very snatchy when trying to get a hole that my smallest boring bar will enter. I do agree that boring is easier than drilling al the way.
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Looking good :ThumbsUp: :ThumbsUp: How did you get on drilling the bronze? I have found it very snatchy when trying to get a hole that my smallest boring bar will enter. I do agree that boring is easier than drilling al the way.
Bronze is sticky if drilled dry, will heat up real quick. With cutting oil and frequently pulling back to clear chips its not bad.
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Chris, as amazing as the shay photos are, I am sure that more than a few of us would love seeing some of your wood carving and scrimshaw work as well...artistry is artistry...whatever the medium !!
Bill
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Chris, as amazing as the shay photos are, I am sure that more than a few of us would love seeing some of your wood carving and scrimshaw work as well...artistry is artistry...whatever the medium !!
Bill
Hi Bill,
Here are a few photos of just a few of the other pieces I've done... carvings, scrimshaw, full size boats, furniture....
Chris
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Apparently your talents aren't limited to machining. I am in awe.
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Apparently your talents aren't limited to machining. I am in awe.
Decades of looking at others work and thinking - I wonder how that is done, another thing to learn!
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Oh WOW!!! Thanks so much Chris for sharing those. Just as for the shay...each a work of art in it's own right!! Totally awesome. :NotWorthy:
Bill
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Very nice on all accounts!!
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Wow. I feel very sub-mortal. Beyond impressive.
-Bob
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Well that just confirms that a real artist can find a finished part in a hunk of about any type material :NotWorthy: :NotWorthy:.
Eric
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Thanks guys - much appreciated! Just like with machining, carving results get better over time as new techniques/methods are learned - can be amazing to compare recent results to early ones.
Got the rest of the crankshaft bearings done. One thing I changed after the first one was to drill the starter hole for boring with the soldered-together halves all the way into the chuck, to keep the drill from cracking them apart. After starter drilling, I then moved it out like I showed in the first one and bored the center and turned the outside. Doing it that way kept the parts together till I parted them off. First photo shows the bearings all in place and test fitted with a piece of the stock for the crankshaft.
With everything fitting fine (a little tight to turn, close enough that I will wait till the crankshaft is done and will lap them with some diamond paste to a nice smooth run), it was time to loctite the bearing halves in place. Being careful to keep the pairs together and oriented the same as they were made, a drop of loctite went in between the bronze bearing and the brass case. The caps were screwed back on to press everything into place, with a piece of card stock between the halves to keep from sticking everything together. After it set up, the card stock was removed.
Last two photos show the engine so far bolted up on the loco. This morning I made the lower bracket, which holds the crankcase steady to the frame of the loco. It is a piece of brass sheet stock, bent to shape (another template was made to get the angles) and drilled for three mounting bolts top and bottom. You can see the plate behind the crankcase in the photos (shows best in the last one).
This was the last step before making the crankshaft itself. It will be a built-up crank rather than turned from one solid bar. I have had great luck making them that way on other engines, going to do the same here. I make the webs and eccentrics as press fit on the rods, position everything and drill for cross pins at every joint, then for good measure go back with low temp silver solder to fill in the joints and lock everything together so nothing can wiggle loose. As long as the web pairs are made together and kept oriented right, the final results come out square. Going to take some time and select stock and lay out everything, then will get a start on it - should be fun!
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Looks like jewelry in a display case :cheers:. It won't be long until as Cash said: "I here the train a comin " :praise2:
Eric
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Hmmm..maybe you don't need a hobby. Great work you've shown, (the rocker, the canoe - exemplary) and the engines look right at home. Cheers, Hugh.
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Wow that looks nice!
You might want to reconsider the diamond lapping compound; it may embed in the bearings and continue to lap the crank for a long time. I would look into the Time-saver lapping compound, it won't embed and breaks down to a harmless state after doing it's job. There are 4 different grits for both ferrous and non ferrous metals; you can purchase a sample kit which is just about a lifetime supply for someone like us.
I is an amazing product that can produce silky smooth fits on sliding and rotating assemblies.
I really enjoyed the pictures of your other hobbies; you are are a man of many talents and a true artist; thanks for sharing your work.
Dave
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Wow that looks nice!
You might want to reconsider the diamond lapping compound; it may embed in the bearings and continue to lap the crank for a long time. I would look into the Time-saver lapping compound, it won't embed and breaks down to a harmless state after doing it's job. There are 4 different grits for both ferrous and non ferrous metals; you can purchase a sample kit which is just about a lifetime supply for someone like us.
I is an amazing product that can produce silky smooth fits on sliding and rotating assemblies.
I really enjoyed the pictures of your other hobbies; you are are a man of many talents and a true artist; thanks for sharing your work.
Dave
Never heard of that stuff - sounds perfect. Where do you get it?
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McMaster Carr has it, the price has gone up since I bought mine some years ago.
4782A61
http://www.mcmaster.com/#lapping-compounds/=vsrdza
Dave
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McMaster Carr has it, the price has gone up since I bought mine some years ago.
4782A61
http://www.mcmaster.com/#lapping-compounds/=vsrdza
Dave
Saw some great reviews of it on the web, found the maker sells the soft metal test kit for 30 bucks, gonna give it a try. Thanks for the tip!
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Got a start on the crank webs today. Started by milling some 303 stainless steel rod to the needed rectangular size, then cut off 3 pairs of that a little long to allow for clamping them. Each pair was marked to let me keep them together and oriented the same every time. (photo 1)
Second photo shows the first pair clamped together, with the table positioned and locked down for center drilling the first of the main shaft and crank pin holes. The shafts are 5/16", and centered 9mm apart.The clamps will stay in place till both holes are drilled/reamed, so that they will stay aligned with each other.
Then drilled out the first hole, starting with a smaller drill and working my way up to full size, which keeps the chatter/wander away. (photo 3)
Fourth photo shows reaming the hole to final size, which leaves it a press fit for the rod.
Fifth photo shows drilling the second hole - unlocked the table cross movement and moved it over to the new position and locked it again. The piece stayed clamped in the vise so that the second hole would be parallel to the first one.
Sixth shot shows the pieces out of the vise, seventh photo shows the first pair drilled, ready for radiusing the ends (will do that after all 3 pairs are drilled).
Last shot shows the first pair test fit on a piece of the rod for the main shaft - nice and square to the shaft, good to go. Two more pair to drill....
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Your other hobby work is absolutely magnificent :praise2: :praise2: Not long to go on the Shay engine :ThumbsUp: :ThumbsUp:
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Last step to do on the crank web pieces was to radius the ends. To do this, I made an arbor by turning a shoulder on the end of a bit of brass bar the same diameter as the crankshafts, and threaded the end for a bolt. Then, with a pair of the webs bolted on the shart, turned the radius on one end, swapped to the other hole, and did the other end. This also took the webs to final length. (photo 1)
Second photo shows the first pair turned (on the right), second pair (on the left) still in rough length and ready for thier turn.
After that, on to the eccentric cams. Started with a piece of stainless rod, and turned the shoulder for the eccentric follower on the end, and parted it off. (photo 3)
Next photo (4) shows the cam blanks with the web pieces.
Last operation on the eccentrics was to offset drill the eccentrics. I wound up having to make an extra set, since I tried using the 4-jaw chuck to offset drill, but with such a small part it was too hard to measure the offset accurately and I wound up going through the side of the first ones. So, went another direction and clamped the 3-jaw to the mill table (have a chuck-thread-to-t-slot adapter), centered up the piece with the center drill, and cranked over to one side the offset distance, and locked it all down. Then I could drill all 6 of the eccentrics with that setting, wound up being a quicker way to do it than in the lathe. (photo 5)
Next two photos show drilling/reaming the hole in the eccentric.
Last photo shows the first pair test fit on the crank shaft - all looked fine, so went ahead and drilled the rest of them...
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On to an exciting step - assembling the crankshaft. I started out by making sub-assemblies out of the cranks and eccentrics. The cranks were easy - ran a piece of rod the right length for the crank pins through the webs, a longer piece through the other hole, and drilled through the webs and rod for some drive fit pins. Since I have been keeping the web pairs together and oriented the same through the whole process, they lined up nice and straight. (picture 1)
Second photo shows the web pieces all pinned.
Next up was to make subassemblies out of the eccentric discs. Each pair sits back to back on the main rod, with a 19.5 degree offset from centerline for each one. I laid that out on card stock, and used that as a pattern to clamp up the pairs. Then drilled for a cross pin to hold the two discs together. (photo 3)
Once I had all the webs and discs ready, it was time to put it all together. Lots of measuring, checking, more measuring, rechecking the book, .... Once I had the main rod turned to length with shoulders at the ends for the u-joints, and marked out for position of the pieces, I pushed on the first crank web to its position, and drilled/pinned it in place. Then set up the rotary table vertically, with a tailstock to support the other end of the shaft, and zeroed the table with the first pinned web square to the table. You can see on the shaft that all the webs are in position and roughly to right angle (120 degrees to each other). There is also one eccentric pair in place - the others go on later at the ends, no need to put them on now. The middle eccentric will be drilled/pinned later. (photo 4)
With everything aligned and zeroed, I then turned the rotary table 120 degrees for the next web, and clamped the web in the mill vise. This squared the web to the table, holding it in place for drilling. One of the webs was drilled/reamed, and a pin tapped in far enough to hold it, and the second web was then drilled/reamed/pinned. The pins were not driven home yet, I waited till it was off the mill to do that so I would not risk bending the shaft. (photo 5)
Then, turned the rotary table another 120 degrees and did likewise for the third web pair. With all the webs drilled and pins started, I took it off the mill and with each web sitting on the anvil tapped the pins home and filed them off flush. The middle eccentric is not drilled yet, wanted to check everything with the crankcase first. (photo 6)
Next photo shows the crank so far sitting on the bearings in the crankcase. It is a nice smooth fit, so all has gone good so far.
Last photo shows the bearing caps screwed on to make sure it still fits right - it does. I also slipped on the outside eccentrics to check that the shoulders at the ends were the right distance out.
Enough for today, time to walk away before getting tired and pulling a brain-fart on it. :zap:
Next step will be to mark the positions of the eccentrics and drill/pin them. Each one needs to be at the proper angle to the corresponding web, so I will figure out a jig to hold the discs, with the web they go with clamped in the mill vise. After that is done, I will lap in the shaft on the bearings - it is a good fit, just a tiny bit tight, so the lapping should work out well. I have some of the time-saver compound that someone else recommended, will try that out on it.
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That looks good Chris, and an interesting arrangement with the eccentrics, all outboard like! Hugh.
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That looks good Chris, and an interesting arrangement with the eccentrics, all outboard like! Hugh.
Thats how Kozo designed it, one set inboard and two outboard. Should be an interesting visual when its all going! It also kept the crankcase just short enough to drill with a standard length drill. I had to finish drilling with the bit only 1/4" into the chuck, but that was enough.
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Nice work on what could be a tricky part Chris. It looks great!!
Bill
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Quick update - got the eccentrics drilled/pinned on. Turned out no jig was needed since I already had each pair pinned at the correct angle within the pair, just clamped the corresponding webs in the vise, and the eccentrics self-aligned on the tops of the jaws (checked several times that I had them the right way round, they are not perpendicular to the webs but 19.5 degrees off that). Started with the center set, and clamped the eccentric in place with a spacer from the next web to get it located properly. (photo 1)
Second photo shows doing one of the end sets.
Last photo shows the crankshaft so far. With all the parts pinned in place, I went in with some low temp silver solder and flowed that into all the joints to lock everything in place, and keep any pins from working loose. The pins are doing the work of holding things in place against rotational forces, not the solder.
All that is left on the crank is to get it lapped into the bearings and cut away the parts of the main shaft within each web set. Next up is the universal joint sets that run out to the drive shafts on the trucks. Interesting part on Shays, the u-joints include a square shaft section the telescopes as the trucks pivot.
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Hi Chris, magnificent. Waiting on the exciting moment now, when you will start to cut of the not needed sections of the shaft.
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Hi Chris, magnificent. Waiting on the exciting moment now, when you will start to cut of the not needed sections of the shaft.
That always SHOULD be a good moment - never had a problem making the cranks that way before. As long as I cut in the right place....! I did get those pieces cut out this morning, and the hacksawn sides cleaned up with the mill. No movement at all in the shape of the crank, still sits nice and flat in the bearings. :cartwheel:
Just needs a little polishing up to make it look shiny again. The lapping compound should be here Monday according to the tracking info, will lap the bearings then. In the meantime I am going on with the universal joint shafts.
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Well while you are waiting on the lapping compound, can you knock me out a real pretty bateau? :lolb: I am really enjoying the build :ThumbsUp: :cheers:
Cletus
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Well while you are waiting on the lapping compound, can you knock me out a real pretty bateau? :lolb: I am really enjoying the build :ThumbsUp: :cheers:
Cletus
I've built a dozen or so boats, everything from solo canoes to 18' gaff rig sailboats, so you fund it I'll build it! May take more than till monday though! Need a REALLY big box and a ton of packing peanuts....!
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Hi Chris, really enjoying your build. I wish you did the crank a year ago. I would have used your method rather than Kozo's single piece. It took me four tries to get the thing right. At the rate you are going you will pass me soon which is good for me because I'm learning a lot from the way you work. I have the engine running on 10#s +/- and have just started the cylinder cocks. Keep up the good work and the great postings.
Picture 1 3 rejects
Picture 2 the one that works
Dave
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Hi Dave, glad the fourth one worked. The one piece method allows for no mistakes and a whole lot of deep interrupted cuts that I thinl would have been hard omn my little lathe. I did the built up cranks several times now and have had no trouble with any of them. Your engine running on 10 psi sounds great, there are a lot ov sliding parts to build up friction. Do you have any videos posted of it running? Love to see it go!
I never did an engine with the cylinder cocks, any leakage issues on them?
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Hi Chris
I do have a video on Youtube but I don't no how to link to it. It's Under "Kozo shay running on air"
I tried to attach here but it didn't like it.
This is the first project for me so I don't no about problems with the cylinder cocks. I do have a couple Accucraft steamers with cylinder cocks with no problems. For running the engine on air I just plugged the holes as you can see in the picture. there's going to be a lot of little parts. BTW the oiler piping calls for 2mm copper tubing, have you found a source for this?
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zVJP8lqDhDk
;)
Jo
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Thanks Jo
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Thanks Jo - was just about to look for the video when I saw you posted the link.
Dave, looks great! Thanks for the video.
I took at look for the 2mm copper tube - my normal suppliers only go down to 3mm, but K&S sells 2mm tube in packs of 1' lengths - these are the guys you see in the hobby shops. Online, Tower Hobbies, Hobbylinc, etc carry it. Normally I dont buy K&S since the prices work out so high, but for this amount it is not bad at all.
chris
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I got a start on the horn couplings, which make up the inner workings of the universal joints on the drive shafts. They will be held in an outer ring with pins that let them rotate. To start, trimmed 4 pieces of stainless down to length. Each piece will make two of the horns - 8 of them are needed. (photo 1)
Then, drilled/bored the ends for the drive shafts. On one pair, the holes are smaller - this set will get pinned/silver soldered to the square telecoping drive shaft boxes. (photo 2)
With the holes done, turned down the ends to size. This will leave clearance for the outer rings to pivot in. (photo 3)
Next step was to mill flats on two sides of the bars. In order to ensure the flats were parallel, I clamped the parts in the mill vise (used the v-slot in the center to hold them), and milled the flats from either side without taking the part out of the vise. (photo 4)
Then, turned the piece sideways in the vise, resting the flat on a square bar, and drilled the pivot holes. When all the milling is done on each bar, it will be cut between these holes to make the two horn couplings. (photo 5)
Sixth photo shows the parts so far, with the end holes, flats, and pivot holes. Note that the one on the left has a different size end hole and shank - this will make the couplings for the square bars.
Next up was to start shaping the center area. With the bar held horizontally in the mill vise, the center area was milled down to size. Same depth was done on either side. Lots of cutting oil, a number of passes to get it down to size... (photo 7)
Last photo shows that done on the first bar - still need to do the same for the other three bars. After that, a 45 degree angle cut will be made at the ends of the center area to blend them into the ends - that will be next time.
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Lots more done on the horn couplings for the universal joint shafts. Set up the vise at an angle to mill the slanted portion of the center section. First photo shows the setup, little hard to see what it is doing, but second photo shows the result with the four angled portions of the horn pair (making two of the horns from one piece, much easier to hold in vise for milling this way).
Then back in the vise down flat again, and drilled out the majority of the center area. (photo 3)
Fourth photo shows the remaining part of the center being milled out. Fifth photo shows all 4 bars with the center milled, ready to cut apart.
Next photo shows the first two pairs cut apart into the individual horns. The bottom pair has been filed to final shape - tapered the inside corners off, and rounded the ends of the horns.
Seventh shot shows the first pair test fitted on the end of the axle shaft, held in position. Still need to make the outer shell and pins.
Last photo shows all 4 pair cut apart, still need to do the filing on the rest of them....
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Nice job on those Chris. Looking forward to seeing how you do the pins.
Bill
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Nice job on those Chris. Looking forward to seeing how you do the pins.
Bill
They are opposite of how a car driveshaft is, with the pins coming in from the outside ring rather than a cross shaped inner set. They should be an interesting build. Before I get to turning those parts I am going to make a mod to the qctp on the lathe. The a2z post has a tendency to slip out of position when doing high pressure cuts like parting and interrupted cuts. I am making a new base that has multiple tslot bolts rather than the single center one. Been wanting to do this for a while, and all the stainless steel parts coming up have convinced me to make it. Will throw up some pics in a couple days when it is done....
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Nice job on those Chris. Looking forward to seeing how you do the pins.
Bill
They are opposite of how a car driveshaft is, with the pins coming in from the outside ring rather than a cross shaped inner set. They should be an interesting build. Before I get to turning those parts I am going to make a mod to the qctp on the lathe. The a2z post has a tendency to slip out of position when doing high pressure cuts like parting and interrupted cuts. I am making a new base that has multiple tslot bolts rather than the single center one. Been wanting to do this for a while, and all the stainless steel parts coming up have convinced me to make it. Will throw up some pics in a couple days when it is done....
Bill,
Here is a shot of the reworked A2Z QCTP with the plate underneath it. Does two things - keeps it from moving under heavy cut pressure, like parting (the tool is so far off center from the center post that it has a LOT of torque on the holder - even the makers talk about this issue), the other thing it does is move the tool back closer to the middle of the cross slide, so the tailstock can reach better. Simple mod, just a slotted plate screwed to the bottom of the base, works great.
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This morning I got the rest of the horn couplings filed down like the first set, and got going on the telescoping drive shafts. First step was to make the hollow square tubes, which are made in two pieces silver soldered together. The first piece was made from a length of steel bar, with the center milled out to form the tube. The top of the channel was then milled back a little farther to hold the 'roof' of the tube. You can just see one side of that notch in the back wall of the channel in the first photo.
In the second/third photos, the flat bar for the roof is test fitted. The notced side walls hold the top piece so that a square tube is formed.
After making up a second set, got the tops/channels silver soldered together (glad it was a quick thing to solder up, it is about -5 F out there today, and that is the high temp for the next couple days, heading down to some overnights around -10 to -15!) Then, milled off the top smooth with the side walls. (photo 4)
Fifth photo shows how the horn coupling for the ends of the tubes go in - made up a snug fitting bit of square bar with a pin to hold the coupling, and silver soldered the coupling to the pin/bar. That assembly was then loctited and pinned into the square tube.
Sixth photo shows the next subassembly - lengths of round bar and square bar that is pinned/silver soldered together to form the inner part of the telescoping shaft. There is one long and one short bar, for the back and front drive shafts.
Last photo shows the round/square sections after silver soldering and trimming to length. Also has the horn coupling loctited/pinned in place on the end. The upper set in the photo has the square shaft in the tube, like it would be in use. The bottom one has it outside the tube, to show the parts.
Next up will be the housings/pins for the couplings. Though they do the same job as the u-joints in a car, they differ in that the pins are held in a large outer ring rather than using the cross-shaped connector that a car does. It takes up more room than a car-style joint, but there is plenty of space for it in the loco.
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Interesting mod on the A2Z toolholder Chris. I agree it can be a problem at times. I have cut a square of sandpaper the size of the toolholder base and that seems to help a lot. What I like about your mod is that it moves the holder closer to the center of the cross slide as you noted. I have been threatening to get a tailstock extender piece for just that reason.
Nice progress on the universal joints as well!!
Bill
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Interesting mod on the A2Z toolholder Chris. I agree it can be a problem at times. I have cut a square of sandpaper the size of the toolholder base and that seems to help a lot. What I like about your mod is that it moves the holder closer to the center of the cross slide as you noted. I have been threatening to get a tailstock extender piece for just that reason.
Nice progress on the universal joints as well!!
Bill
I got a tailstock extender a while back, but it turned out to be a nightmare to get the live center/etc out of it since there is no through hole to push through. The tailstock ejects the extender when cranked all the way back, but there is no way to eject tools from the extender, and it is too narrow to grip easily.
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The universals and the telescoping shafts look very at home with each other. More good work! Hugh.
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Chris, I can see where that would be a problem getting things out of the extender. Surprising that the Sherline folks didn't think about that :o. Would it be possible to drill a small hole through the back of it...say 1/8" or so in order to be able to tap a live center or drill chuck out ??
Bill
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Chris, I can see where that would be a problem getting things out of the extender. Surprising that the Sherline folks didn't think about that :o. Would it be possible to drill a small hole through the back of it...say 1/8" or so in order to be able to tap a live center or drill chuck out ??
Bill
The extender is 2 or 2 1/2" long, so it would have to be a large enough drill to be that long. The extender I have is not made by Sherline, but by another company (forget which). Depending what steel it is and it is hardened, it could be tough to drill a long hole. The Sherline extender is only 1-1/2" long, this other one was longer. The mod to the base of the toolpost is working very well. Moving it back to the center of the table reduces the number of times the extender would be needed, and it no longer shifts at all. The Sherline QCTP has a slot around the bottom to take one of the vise hold-downs, which must help - that would be another way to solve the movement issue, but it would still be off center of the table a bit - not as far as the A2Z one though. I am using the larger shank insert holders, which the A2Z one handles very well. Adding the slotted plate only raised the post 1/8", and was easy to drill/countersink for 4-40 screws into the base - just had to lower the tool holders 1/8" on thier adjusting screws to center them again.
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The universals and the telescoping shafts look very at home with each other. More good work! Hugh.
Thanks Hugh! I am looking forward to getting the rings/pins done to see how they work.
<engage vent mode>
With the bitter cold here (-10F last night), I've been over at my mothers' house keeping her @#$@%^@ furnace going. It is one of the newer style high-efficiency ones with the exhaust vented out the side wall. With it being SO cold, the water vapor in the exhaust is crystallizing as it hits the outside air and caking up on the outside fitting, which has the air intake behind a cover. Everytime it snows, the freezing water grabs the snowflakes and cakes it all over everything, clogging the intake and causing the furnace to shut off - sometimes after just an hour or so. The furnace guys around here are going round the clock getting furnaces back on line. Once I knew what the issue was, I started clearing it off myself. STUPID design of the things. Glad the one at my house is the older roof-vented ones - 5% less efficient but it works in any weather. I got it to run all night by rigging a little table above the vent to keep the snow off it.
<end vent mode>
You guys Down Under - any chance of shipping me a carton of Global Warming??! I heard it is hot in NSW at the moment... I'll trade you some snow!
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There's a lot of rain with our heat at the moment, and the humidity is suffocating at times, but the valley I live in can turn into a bit of a fish bowl. I'll put a small parcel in the post later today, but it could be soggy by the time it gets to you. Rain, although a pain, is better than the fire-prone alternative. Hugh.
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Great stuff Chris :ThumbsUp: :ThumbsUp: . I also don't use my quick change tool holder when parting. The extra overhang and the dovetail seem to add too much chatter and vibration.
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All right, back in the shop again today. Started on what Kozo calls the 'square pieces' for the universal joints. These are steel square rings that hold the pins for the u-joints. They start out as a piece of round bar, drilled/bored on the lathe... (photo 1)
Then over to the mill to square up the outside with the fly cutter. (photo 2)
The original curve is left at the corners - this will fit the cover ring in a few steps. (photo 3)
Back on the lathe, parted the square sections off to length. (photo 4)
Each section was then clamped in the mill vise ant the middle hole taken out to square, so that the dimensions match the outside width of the coupler horns. (photo 5)
With the squares made, it was time to make the retainer rings that go around the squares, and hold the pivot pins in place. The rings started as a length of brass bar, drilled/bored out to match the original diameter of the square sections. I took the hole out to size just deep enough for one ring at a time, so that it would stay strong enough to do the work on the outside - otherwise it would be like machining a long thin wall tube. (photo 6)
After boring the inside, the outside was turned to a curved profile, finished smooth with a file. Maybe I can go into business making cheap brass wedding bands... Anyway, after shaping the outside, the rings were parted off from the bar. (photo 7)
The last photo shows the rings and square pieces test fitted - the rings are a snug fit over the curved corners of the squares.
Next up will be to make the pivot pins, which go through the center of the flat sides of the squares and into the holes in the horn couplings. The heads of the pins are held in place by the brass rings. The rings will get retaining screws into the corners of the squares. Should be interesting to see it all together...
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Interesting stuff :ThumbsUp: :ThumbsUp: I only know the automotive type joint with the cross on the inside (I broke a few on my rally car ::) ) Still watching with interest :wine1:
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Interesting stuff :ThumbsUp: :ThumbsUp: I only know the automotive type joint with the cross on the inside (I broke a few on my rally car ::) ) Still watching with interest :wine1:
Did the joint on the rally car break before or after the wall/cliff/tree was encountered?!
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Here is the sequence for the rest of the u-joint assemblies. Last post I had gotten the square and round shell pieces done, so I got going on making the pivot pins. They started out as a length of stainless rod, and turned the ends down and threaded them at the tips on the lathe. The threaded portion is only there to hold it to the fixture to shape the heads, it will be cut off after that. (photo 1)
Second photo shows the pile-o-pins, 16 are needed, made a couple spares in case I Murphied one or two...
The heads of the pins need to be radiused to fit under the outer retaining ring. To do that, a little fixture is made from some scrap bar stock, with shank turned to same diameter as the inside of the retaining ring, and a flat milled in the side the same distance from center as the flats on the square inner ring. The pin is put through a hole in that, and a nut on the inner side to hold it in place. Then its a simple session of turning it down to the proper radius. Once I got the setting from the first one, I zeroed the handwheel there to make the rest go quick - bolt in the pin, take several passes down to zero, remove the pin and cut off the threaded part... (photo 3)
Last thing to do before assembly was to drill the holes in the squared ring for the pivot pins. Set up first one in the vise with one edge aligned with the edge of the vise, centered for the hole, then could crank through the rest at the same setting. (photo 4)
Fifth photo shows all the pieces for both drive shafts. The upper one is assembled, the lower one still in pieces. On the left is one of the squared rings with one of the horn couplers in place. The pins on that one are cut to length, the pins laying on the right are still uncut.
Next shot shows a closeup of the assembled joint - you can see the pin heads under the outer ring. Assembling that is a little fussy, since the pin heads need to be all aligned with the high spot running lengthwise so the ring will slip over them. Without letting any fall out. Again. Oops, again...
Seventh shot shows both shaft assemblies all together - all that needs to be done is to drill/countersink for some small screws through the outer ring into the corner of the squared ring, so that the outer ring can't slip off.
Last photo shows the shafts slipped onto the ends of the crankshaft. Just need to cross-drill the ends for pins to hold them in place. For now I'll run some small (2-56 or 1-72) bolts through the pin holes so I can assemble/disassemble it quickly while making the rest of the engine. The u-joints work very well, nice and smooth, with more than enough angle possible for the trucks to pivot. I've never made u-joints this style before, always had done the car-style. For small models I like this type, the parts are not quite so tiny on the pivots. Not sure why the Shays had this style over the inner-pivot style, maybe was easier to maintain in the field, and could be made beefy to take lots of torque.
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Well I was wondering how all that would work and now I see. Good thing you got them all together Chris, the shop gremlins would LOVE all those little pins :) Nice work on the u-joints and fun to follow along.
Bill
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Well I was wondering how all that would work and now I see. Good thing you got them all together Chris, the shop gremlins would LOVE all those little pins :) Nice work on the u-joints and fun to follow along.
Bill
Lets see, how did it go in that movie... dont feed the gremlins small engine parts after midnight , dont get cutting oil on the gremlins,... something like that!
The wood floor in the shop is great for finding small parts/springs/etc that TWANG off in some odd direction, except they always go under the compressor, behind a cabinet, into the trash can that is full (never when it is empty)...
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Chris, the wedding rings look fantastic, especially on square fingers. Are they all the same outside diameter? Do they need to be? Fully assembled, well, I like that shot very much. Cheers, Hugh.
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Chris, the wedding rings look fantastic, especially on square fingers. Are they all the same outside diameter? Do they need to be? Fully assembled, well, I like that shot very much. Cheers, Hugh.
The critical dimension on the brass rings is the inner diameter, so it is a snug fit on the squared rings and pivot pins. The outside diameter was turned to the same starting dimension on all of them, there was probably a slight variance that crept in during filing the curve into them but that does not effect how they work.
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This morning was catch-up-on-little-stuff time: pinned the last connections on the shafts, ran in retaining screws on the u-joint rings, lapped the main bearings, and test fit the whole thing on the loco. The TimeSaver lapping compound (yellow) that someone here recommended worked fantastic - I got the trial set of different grits, it looks like it should last for a LOT of models since it does not take much to mix up enough with oil for small bearings. It works very quickly, and left a smooth running set of bearings. I think I will go back and relap some of the connections on my twin-beam engine, see if it will clear up the sticky spot that one has.
First photo shows drilling/tapping for the retaining screws on the outer u-joint rings.
Rest of the photos show it all assembled on the loco. Good point to sit there with it and make train noises!
Next steps in the book are to make the pistons and conn-rods.
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Awesome Chris!! Getting closer by the day.
Bill
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Interesting stuff :ThumbsUp: :ThumbsUp: I only know the automotive type joint with the cross on the inside (I broke a few on my rally car ::) ) Still watching with interest :wine1:
Did the joint on the rally car break before or after the wall/cliff/tree was encountered?!
Actually the joints were also the pivots for the swinging arm suspension so they took the suspension loads as well as the driving torque. The ears used to break off the flange to the differential until I exchanged then for the larger ones from the 6 cylinder version (Triumph Herald and Vitesse for the British readers).
Still enjoying the build :praise2: :praise2: not far to go now :)
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Crueby, I haven't seen joints that nice since the last time I was on Willie's bus 8). Seriously, great looking shafts and joints. I have seen that type of joint on some type of farm equipment somewhere, I'm thinking it might have been an old hammer mill :thinking:. Loved the broaching method on the shafts BTW :ThumbsUp: :ThumbsUp:
Eric
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Crueby, I haven't seen joints that nice since the last time I was on Willie's bus 8). Seriously, great looking shafts and joints. I have seen that type of joint on some type of farm equipment somewhere, I'm thinking it might have been an old hammer mill :thinking:. Loved the broaching method on the shafts BTW :ThumbsUp: :ThumbsUp:
Eric
Didn't you work as a roadie for Dr Teeth & The Electric Mayhem?? :o
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Well, Miss Piggy and I were pretty tight until she found out what I cook for a living :lolb: :lolb:
E
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Well, Miss Piggy and I were pretty tight until she found out what I cook for a living :lolb: :lolb:
E
Either bacon or frogs legs would get you in trouble with her!!
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Now to the heart of the engine - the pistons. They are bronze, pinned to a steel shaft. First photo shows a piston that has been drilled for the shaft, had the o-ring slot cut in the center with the parting tool, had the corners rounded, and is in the process of being parted off.
Second photo shows the first two pistons, one with the piston rod installed (cross-pinned and loctited). The thread at the base will be to screw into the crosshead.
After making all three pistons, spent some time fitting them to the cylinders. Two fit nicely, one needed a little shaving off from the bottom of the o-ring slot to get a good sliding fit. (photo 3)
Last part to make was a set of lock nuts for the crossheads. I did not have any nuts the right thread (M4) so made up a set from some steel rod. Drilled/tapped the center on the lathe, then over on to the rotary table on the mill to mill in the flats. (photo 4). Back to the lathe to part off a half dozen of them. (photo 5)
Last photo shows the pistons assembled and ready to go.
Next step will be to make the crossheads - good project to start fresh with tomorrow...
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Got a start on the crossheads today. They started out as bronze rod, turned to diameter with a smaller nub at the end which was drilled/tapped to match the piston rods. The ends of the crossheads are tapered just a little so they dont scrape off the oil on the guides - that just shows in the first photo.
Second photo shows the crosshead blanks all turned/threaded, one test fit in the guides.
Next step was to mill the sides off flat. Did first one side (photo 3), then the other. (photo 4)
Then drilled (photo 5) and reamed (photo 6) the hole in the side for the pin that will hold the conn-rod end.
Last photo shows the three crossheads so far.
Next step will be to mill out the recess in the end for the conn-rod...
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I've cracked a few jokes on your build thread, I've tried to give praise sincerely, but, Crueby, I want you to know, this is one of the most inspirational builds I've seen in awhile. You are using Sherline equipment and producing Bridgeport and South Bend (hey I live here) size and quality parts. My hats off to you :cheers:
Cletus
BTW the last time I called Miss Piggy, they said she couldn't talk, she had a frog in her throat :lolb: :mischief: :naughty:
I
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I've cracked a few jokes on your build thread, I've tried to give praise sincerely, but, Crueby, I want you to know, this is one of the most inspirational builds I've seen in awhile. You are using Sherline equipment and producing Bridgeport and South Bend (hey I live here) size and quality parts. My hats off to you :cheers:
Cletus
Thanks!!
BTW the last time I called Miss Piggy, they said she couldn't talk, she had a frog in her throat :lolb: :mischief: :naughty:
Good one!
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Here is the rest of the work on the crossheads. With them in the mill vise, drilled 3 holes across the end to remove the bulk of the material from the inner slot. (photo 1)
Then went in with a small mill and connected the holes and took it out to the design width/length/depth. With the drill having done most of the work this part went quickly, just had to check thickness of the outer walls with the calipers a couple times to see how much more to take off. (photo 2)
Third photo shows the change from no slot on left to slotted on the right.
Next steps were to take the bottom edge to shape. Started by milling out the center section. (photo 4)
Then, with the pieces angled in the vise, took off the slanted part on the sides. (photo 5)
Last step was to mill in a shallow groove on either side to form a groove to hold more oil. (photo 6)
Last photo shows the parts on the piston rods, one of them in place in the cylinder assembly.
Next up are the connecting rods and thier bearings onto the crankshaft. Once those are done, will be time to bolt it up and check the action - that will be a major milestone!
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Another great update Chris. Lovely work on the crossheads!!
Bill
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Got a start on the piston connecting rods. They are in two pieces that overlap above the crank bearing and are through bolted together. To start, got some stainless bars milled down with the fly cutter to the needed sizes, one set each for the top/bottom halves. (photo 1)
The stock for the bottom halves was left in one piece since they are so short. With the bar held in the vise, I milled out the top sections of each. This are is where the two halves will overlap. The bolts will go through the arms. By doing all three together it was easy to get the inner widths all the same, plus it was easier to align/hold in the vise with one long part. This was one of the few places Kozo did not show the setups for the milling steps, usually does for complex parts. (photo 2)
After milling the openings the three parts were sawn apart. Since the upper half needs to nest all the way into the bottom half, I swung the parts vertical and trimmed out the inner corners square. (photo 3)
Last step in shaping the part was to trim the bottom off to the final length. (photo 4)
Last photo shows the bottom pieces with the blanks for the top pieces. The lower one has the bottom sitting on it to show how they will overlap, and the rest of the conrod is sketched in. The extra width at the lower side in the photo will be used to hold the part when thinning down the upper arm (next time - got to get ready for an RC boat run with the club at the indoor pool up at the local Y, am testing out a bunch of changes to my submarine).
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Okay, this is not about the Shay build, but a side project this winter - finally got the RC submarine I've been working on going well. First time out the bow/stern planes, which I had made to scale sizes, were too small to work well, so remade them larger. Also remade the sail/hatch area to take out some extra bouyancy. Working great now. Video below (no sound).
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tW8y6CJpsgY
Service will resume shortly from regular Shay build channel....!
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That is most interesting Chris. I have seen a few of these at Cabin Fever at times and they are quite complex. Would love to see how you have arranged things inside the hull, etc.
Bill
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That is most interesting Chris. I have seen a few of these at Cabin Fever at times and they are quite complex. Would love to see how you have arranged things inside the hull, etc.
Bill
The hull was planked up with some cedar strips left over from a kayak build. The water tight compartment is a large lexan tube, with endplates sealed with some sheet Viton gasket material - the endplates are held in with studs threaded into the tube. For the through fittings from the WTC, I made up some brass fittings with o-rings at either end. The control rods back to the planes are flexible rods made for RC airplane/boats. The planes themselves are made from lexan, with brass rods through them to strengthen the thin areas and give a place to thread the pivots into. It is a static dive sub, meaning it has to be moving to dive since it has a fixed positive bouyancy (about 3 pounds of ballast in the bottom) and the hull outside the WTC is free flooding. Below are a couple pics of the innerds of it. The servos/etc are all mounted on a lexan plate that is attached to the aft endplate, slides out as a unit.
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Lot farther on the piston connecting rods today. Last time I got the bottom halves milled out, today started milling the upper halves to shape. First up was to narrow the bottom ends to be a snug fit in the gap in the bottom halves. Took down the ends with the side of an end mill... (photo 1)
With the bottom pieces pushed onto the ends of the top pieces, cross drilled for the mounting bolts. (photo 2)
Bolted the halves together, and it was time to drill out the hole for the crank bearing. To keep the vise jaws square, put one of the other pieces on the right side as a spacer. (photo 3)
Then it was time for another little drilling jig - bolted a bit of brass rod turned to press fit in the bearing hole, and a guide hole the right distance up for the crosshead pin. Used that guide to drill the upper hole in all three conn-rods. (photo 4)
With the holes done, ready to start shaping the upper end down. First, set the piece up on its side in the vise. Here is where the extra width left on the one side of the blank came into play - that is how it was held. With an end mill, milled out the recess in either side of the upper arm. (photo 5)
Then, with the piece bolted down to a aluminum block in the 4-jaw on the rotary table, started to mill out the profile of the upper arm. The rotary table made it simple to line up each face with the table axis and take it to shape. The block was mounted so that the hole in the upper end was centered on the rotary table, so I could turn the radius at the end. (photo 6)
Next photo shows the first one milled to shape, and the second one ready to go.
Last photo shows it test-fit in the crosshead guide.
Next up will be to make the crosshead pins, and then start on the crank bearings for the lower ends. That will be a fun moment - get to reassemble the engine and get the whole thing spinning for first time (can't run with no valves yet, but close!)
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Last thing needed for the connecting rods were some smaller 2-56 nuts. The store-bought ones were too large, so they overlapped the sides of the rod (plus they just look chunky). So, drilled/tapped the end of a piece of stainless rod, and milled the flats with the rotary table. Got enough for 2 pair off either end of the rod. (photo 1)
Second photo shows the difference - set on the left is with the commercial nuts, the set on the right has the home-made ones - much more in scale, plus they wont project out and hit the crank webs.
On to the connecting rod bearings. They are made from bronze, in the same way that the main shaft bearings were made (shown in earlier posts). A piece of bronze rod larger in diameter than the finished bearings (to leave room for cutting it lengthwise) was milled flat on opposing sides, cut lengthwise, the cuts milled smooth, and the two halves soft soldered back together again. Then, that was chucked up in the 4-jaw so that the solder joint crossed the centerline, and the end drilled/bored out to size. The smallest drill possible to start the boring bar was used, so that it would not put much strain on the solder joint - on the first main bearing I went too large on the drill and popped the joint. Then the smallest boring bar I have was used to enlarge the hole out to the diameter of the crank pin. (photo 3)
After that, used the parting tool (well sharpened) to cut the recess in the center to match the bore of the connecting rod, and the bearing was parted off. (photo 4)
Last photo shows the first bearing test fit in the connecting rod. One down, two more to go....
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I really wish you could re-write this whole thread in book version, I think we could sell it :stir:. Hey Dave Otto, check these nuts out;Yo where's Stan? Crubey your nuts look great, maybe a shine next time before you let us see them :naughty: :mischief: :lolb:
C
etus
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I really wish you could re-write this whole thread in book version, I think we could sell it :stir:. Hey Dave Otto, check these nuts out;Yo where's Stan? Crubey your nuts look great, maybe a shine next time before you let us see them :naughty: :mischief: :lolb:
C
etus
Eek! :paranoia: Didn't they do a story on you on CNN for nut shining in public?
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Eek! :paranoia: Didn't they do a story on you on CNN for nut shining in public?
I think they did, it created quite a sensation in Tasmania. Hugh.
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Okay, now that the forum site is back working today, time to get caught up on progress.
Not much in progress pics for new parts the last few days - have been assembling the con-rods into the engine and getting the bearings lapped and rod lengths adjusted. So far so good, but it is a pain in the swarf to assemble/disassemble an engine with this many little parts/bolts/nuts/etc so it is going slow.
Below are a couple shots from loctiting in the bearing halfs and assembling/lapping them onto the crank. The TimeSaver lapping compound that someone recommended to me is working great - just a pinch of the powder in some oil and slather it in the bearing, spin it around by hand, and it is done. Neat stuff.
Not a lot to show from today, since pictures can't show things moving smoothly (and I can't video while using both hands to hold engine/turn crank). The main bearings and crank bearings have all been lapped in with some TimeSaver compound, and you can still see all my temporary markings on parts so I get them all back on the same shaft and side (learned that one the hard way on a previous model - what a pain to sort out unmarked bearing halves that got mixed up!). So, last picture shows things during reassembly - the pistons are all set on the crossheads, o-rings are there in the piston ron bearings and in the pistons themselves.
I want to make up the gaskets for the top/bottom of the cylinders before putting the cylinders back in place, so that will be next. Then I am going to bolt it up on the loco and get some video of it rolling back/forth on the display track and everything so far spinning. That should be fun (listen for my cackling in the background!). Been busy with other stuff the last couple days so that will probably not be till late friday or saturday. This is where it all starts to come together - fun time!
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Sure is getting close now Chris! And as you say exciting as well...looking forward to seeing it all in motion.
Bill
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Hi Chris, brilliant. As Bill said, waiting for the video.
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Possibly a dumb question, but what are those brass spacers doing in the big end bearings? A a new one for me...but I have no doubt that you know what you're doing! Hugh.
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Possibly a dumb question, but what are those brass spacers doing in the big end bearings? A a new one for me...but I have no doubt that you know what you're doing! Hugh.
Those are not spacers - those are the retaining rings for the pivot pins. The pivot pins on the u-joints have arched heads on them that just fit under the rings - all is assembled, then the rings are slip-fit over the pin heads and held with a screw into the corner of the u-joint housing.
Here is a close up photo of them from an earlier posting that shows those parts. Hope that is the brass part you meant - let me know if not!
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Got the engine parts so far all assembled again and fit on the loco, and could not resist pushing it back and forth on the display stand to watch it all spin. No valve train yet, so cannot run it for real, but getting close! Below are a couple photos, plus a link to a short video of it moving (dont think the camera picked up the sound of my face cracking with the smiles!). Would have posted this earlier but right at the end of the video you can hear the phone ring - had to go over and shovel a few feet of snow off my mothers' roof, and came home and did the shallow pitch part of mine too. Crazy winter this year... yes, I can hear you guys Down Under snickering from hear, and complaining about the heat!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kFhupERdyAI
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Chris,
Perhaps ths is referring to the connecting rod bearings....I am assuming that the pieces of brass stock ("spacers") are holding the two halves of the bearings in place while the Loctite cures.
BTW...very nice work. I have learned a lot from this build. Amazing what can be accomplished with Sherline machines with skill and ingenuity.
Hans
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Those spacers between the bearing halves were pieces of cardboard to keep the loctite from sticking the halves together. Maybe it looked like brass in the photos - guess I didn't make that clear in the post.
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Congrats Crueby!
That sure looks nice!
Dave
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Yes it was the cardboard. Makes sense now. Congratulations on the fluid movement of the loco, a good feeling I bet. Hugh.
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Hi Chris, I am sure it was a special moment when the engine was driven first time by pushing the loco. Well done.
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Definitely a "Happy Dance" moment Chris....well done!!
Bill
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Alrighty - on to the valve stem assemblies. Both the valve slider and the valve crosshead are bronze, and were first milled to outer dimensions from a larger piece of rod. Both will be made in a group of three to make it easy to position/hold in the vise. (photo 1)
First shaping operation on the sliders was to mill the rectangular recess in the face side. This was done as a plunge cut with a center-cutting end mill, and the shape traced into the bronze. (photo 2)
Next, the piece was turned over and a slot run down the length with the mill. This will form the groove that the square adjusting nuts sit in. (photo 3)
With the piece sticking out the side of the vise, cross-slots were milled in to form the groove that the valve stem rod will sit in. (photo 4)
Then with the piece held at a 45 degree angle in the vise, the tops of the sliders were tapered back. Since the angles were all 45, it was possible to do both sides of each top with this one position, just had to raise the cutter for each side and run it back and forth. (photo 5)
Last shaping was to also taper the side faces. (photo 6)
With all the shaping done, the sliders were cut apart and trimmed to length with the mill. Last photo shows the three sliders all complete.
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With the sliders done, it was time to move on to the valve crossheads. On the Shay, the valve stems come down to a crosshead/guide assembly that the reversing gear connects to. This keeps the angular motion from the eccentric from being transfered to the valve stem. To start, another rectangular section of bronze was milled to size, then a step cut into each side. This step will allow the guide to hang onto the crosshead. (photo 1)
Next step was to drill the cross-hole in each of the three pieces (all three are gotten out of this one strip). This cross hole will be threaded for the pivot pin from the reversing gear linkage. (photo 2)
The piece was turned on its side, and notches cut into the edge to form the protruding post at the top of the crosshead. (photo 3)
Next photo (4) shows the crossheads so far, with the major shaping and cross holes drilled. The three parts were then cut from this strip.
The cut ends were then trimmed to length with the end mill. The other part visible on the right was to keep the vise jaws from twisting. (photo 5)
Last step was to drill through the ends for the hole to hold the valve stem, plus a lock screw on the bottom that keeps the cross pin from un-threading itself. (photo 6)
Last two photos show the three valve stem assemblies complete - made up the valve stems (stainless rod threaded at each end) plus the square nuts. You can just see that the nuts have a short round section on the end. I did not have an end mill quite small enough to match the diameter of the stem rods, so this projection keeps the square nut centered on the slider.
With the sliders all done, next step is the valve crosshead guide, which bolts to the piston crosshead columns...
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The valve crossheads ride on a guide bolted to the piston columns. These guides have brass bases and stainless steel retaining plates. The bases started out as a length of brass bar, milled down to outer dimensions with the fly cutter. Then the stepped sides were cut in with an end mill. The lines on the end are a guide to the final shape - they are just there so I can tell at a glance which side is which, the cuts were measured from the upper edge. (photo 1)
Once both sides were stepped in, the top was grooved down the center - the crosshead will rest on the two upper rails. (photo 2)
A simaler groove was cut in the bottom, to give estra clearance to the piston crosshead. (photo 3)
Next photo shows the guide block complete, ready to be cut into the three individual guides.
After cutting the blocks from the larger piece and trimming them to length with the mill, holes were drilled/tapped into the sides to hold the steel retainers. (photo 5)
Last step was to drill the mount holes to match the ones in the piston columns. (photo 6)
Last photo shows the guide blocks complete - the one on the left as a valve guide resting on top where it will be held by the retainers.
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Hi Crueby
Just popping up again to say that I'm still following along, and enjoying it :ThumbsUp:
You sure are showing some really nice work!
Looking forward to more,
Cheers, Joe
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Got the rest of the valve guides made. The retainers are milled out of some stainless steel. Such skinny strips were a challenge to figure out how to hold, what I wound up doing was milling them in pairs out of a larger bar. With the outside taken down to dimension, I milled the center out to form a u-shape, then hacksawed down the middle to split them into two pieces. (photo 1)
With each piece held in the vise, the sawn edge was taken down smooth with the mill. (photo 2)
Next photo shows the two strips after this shaping. (photo 3)
Last steps were to drill the mount holes, and saw the strips into the 6 retainers. (photo 4)
Last two photos show the parts so far assembled. The guide blocks look to need just a little tweaking to get them to line up perfect with the valve rods, looks like the the tolerances stacked up on me and they are just a few thou short. Nothing a strip of thin shim stock wont cure.
Next up will be the reversing gear parts - lots and lots of little parts. Good thing to work on while the weather is still so bad!
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Hi Crueby
Just popping up again to say that I'm still following along, and enjoying it :ThumbsUp:
You sure are showing some really nice work!
Looking forward to more,
Cheers, Joe
Thanks Joe!
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Quick update from this morning - got the guide shims worked out and made (just some thin shim brass with holes to match the guide bases), and the first guide installed along with the valve slider. Picture below shows that first one in place, two more to go. I may skip adding the valve slider on the middle one till the reverse gear is done, since I'll have to dismantle the right end cylinder to get at it for timing, no point in dismantling/remantling/dismantling it an extra time (is remantling a word? Means putting pieces back together, or it means putting a shelf over the fireplace... Anyway.)
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Started milling out the slide links for the reverse gear today. In the book, Kozo mills all three links out of one long piece of stainless steel - I dont have any that wide/long, so made up a holding jig for the individual pieces. The jig is a chunk of aluminum bar with holes drilled/tapped for the two mount holes at the bottom of the links, plus two more temporary holes at the top of the stock. All three links were first drilled for these holes (started at same spot, counted off turns of the handwheels to get to the rest of the holes, returned to starting point for next piece). Then, using the same sequence, drilled/tapped the jig bar for the hold down screws. (photo 1)
With the first piece bolted down to the jig, and the jog held in the 4-jaw chuck on the rotary table, spent some time getting the jig and rotary table all centered up and the stock the correct distance out from the center - the two bottom screws were the reference points. Then, cranked out the distance from the pivot to the center of the slot in the link, drilled a starter hole for the mill, and milled the slot with several shallow passes. (photo 2)
Then, cranked out the distance for the top edge of the link (taking the radius of the mill into account), and drilled starter holes there. (photo 3)
And milled a slot - the bottom edge of the slot is the top edge of the final link piece. Ignore the extra hole above the slot - that one was a brain fart, fortunately in a spot that did not ruin the part! (photo 4)
Last milling operation on the jig was to do the short sections at the bottom corners of the link. The center part, between the mount screws, is not radiused, so that will be done later with the part held in the vise. (photo 5)
Sixth photo shows the state of the first link at that point, with the rest of the edges drawn on.
Last photo shows the link sawn out of the bar, ready for final trimming /shaping. The ends of the slot will get filed square too. One part down, two more to go before I take the jig setup down and start the final trimming...
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Did the rest of the reverse gear link arcs this morning, and milled the shapes around the lower mount holes. Then filed the corners off and smoothed the ends. (photo 1)
Last step was to drill/tap the mount holes for the bracket that will connect to the reversing lever. (photo 2)
Next photo (3) shows the complete links.
Last photo shows a link held in place on the engine. Next step will be to make the spacer and slider piece that sits inside the link, and the threaded pin that holds it in place...
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Every day more splendid parts :praise2: :praise2: Still following along and enjoying the build :wine1:
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Every day more splendid parts :praise2: :praise2: Still following along and enjoying the build :wine1:
Thanks! Another dozen parts, a few temporary fittings, and it will be ready to air power it first time! Can't wait!
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Its a great feeling running on air
Dave
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With the reverse gear links done, on to the fittings that go on them. First up is the little bronze sliders that ride in the slot. They are curved to match the slot, so the same jig that made the links was adapted to make a strip of the sliders - just had to widen it at the end with another bit of aluminum. Then the bronze was screwed down to it and adjusted to be the correct distance from the pivot point of the rotary table. (photo 1)
With all the adjusting done, a few passes with the mill cut the arc into the bronze. (photo 2)
After that, a set of holes was drilled spaced along the strip - this hole will take the pivot pin into the valve crosshead. The strip was long enough for 4 sliders, so have one spare if I cut wrong later. (photo 3)
Last step on the sliders was to cut them apart and to length. (photo 4)
Next up is a little bracket that bolts into the center of the links, and will hold a pin that connects the actuating lever to move the link between forward and reverse. This started out just like the retaining strips did a few posts back, as a piece of larger stainless rod, milled to size, then a slot milled down the center, and the side sawn off to leave an angle bracket shape. This sawn edge was cleaned up with the mill, and it was ready for the next step. (photo 5)
A set of holes was drilled/countersunk along one edge for the mounting screws, and the other side drilled for the pivot pin. (photo 6)
Last step was to angle the mill vise and angle cut the sides of the brackets. (photo7 )
Last photo shows the links, sliders, and brackets all assembled with each other. There will also be a little spacer piece between the slider and the crosshead, but I am going to wait till assembly time with the eccentrics so I can measure the lengths needed.
Next up will be the eccentric followers and connecting rods...
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Still following along Chris. Nice job on the links and associated parts. Its getting closer now!!
Bill
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Nice little production run there Chris. Bronze and steel? Your brass supplier will be getting nervous! Cheers, Hugh.
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Nice little production run there Chris. Bronze and steel? Your brass supplier will be getting nervous! Cheers, Hugh.
They would, but its the same place, so they just like that I am using up stock!
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Only got a few minutes in the shop today, got the pivot pins for the reverse gear links made. Like all the other engine steel parts they are 303 stainless. Started with a length of rod, turned just the end down to size for 2-56 threads - did not want too much hanging out and getting bent. (photo 1)
After threading the end, went back and took the shank down to size too. (photo 2) Parted it off, (photo 3) and reversed it in the chuck to trim the head to thickness. (photo 4)
Then, over to the mill to put the hex shape on the heads with the rotary table. (photos 5 and 6)
Last two photos show the completed link pins in place - they go through the sliders in the link and into the valve crosshead.
Probably get more shop time tomorrow, will get a start on the eccentric followers.
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A few minutes? Surely that was only a few seconds. Hugh.
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A few minutes? Surely that was only a few seconds. Hugh.
Only when hours seem like days, Spock!
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Been a fun day in the shop today - got the eccentric followers mostly done. They started out as blocks of brass, taken down to a stepped shape with the mill. This step will form the bolt hole section of the followers. The bottom half is a shallow step, the top half has a post sticking up that will attach to the connecting rod. The curved part of the followers will be done later. (photo 1)
Once the steps were all done, the two halfs were clamped together, and a series of holes drilled down each side. The holes in the bottom half were opened up to 2-56 clearance size, the holes in the top half were tapped 2-56. The sharp-eyed among you will notice that I drilled 7 holes - the block was long enough for a spare set. (photo 2)
Next up was to round over the bottom of the bottom half. The block was clamped in the 4-jaw, on the rotary table set vertically. The inner edge of the block was centered in the chuck so that the milled surface would be concentric with the hole drilled later. A pass was taken with the mill down the piece, the table turned slightly, and another pass taken. This was repeated till the curve was done. On one side, the mill was offset so that the edge of the mill met up with the step. This whole process is simaler to what Kozo does in the book, except that he used a lathe bit on the late cross slide as a shaper bit, where I used the end mill. Same end result though. (photo 3)
Then, on the other side of the piece, the mill was offset the other way to match up with the step on that side. Then, the piece was turned around in the chuck so that the 1" at the chuck end could be curved like the rest was. (photo 4)
With the bottom half done, the top was bolted back onto it, the jaw against the inner surface moved out, and the block reclamped in the chuck. The same process was done on the upper curve, the only difference being that a smaller mill was used since the space was so narrow. (photo 5)
Next the chuck was switched over to the lathe. I center drilled for the tailstock, then slotted between each piece with the parting tool. It was only taken down though most of the posts. These slots will be guides for cutting off each piece later. (photo 6)
With the slots all done, a starter hole was drilled through the center and a boring bar used to open up the hole to match the eccentric cams. I left the fit a little tight, will let the lapping compound take it to a smooth sliding fit. (photo 7)
Last steps were to hacksaw apart the pieces one at a time, turning the face left on the chucked piece down smooth again and the proper distance from the bolt hole (final pieces are 4mm thick, so took it to 2mm from center of the hole and sawed off the next one). With the individual parts chucked back up in the lathe, the sawn face was taken down to make the part 4mm thick. Last photo shows the followers so far. Last step will be to notch them for the connecting rods and drill for the mounting bolts.
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Getting close to having the eccentric followers/rods done. Continued on by notching the tops of the followers to take the connecting rod. The brass plate behind it in the first photo was just to keep it from flexing at the top during milling.
Second photo shows the set of followers all notched.
Next parts to make are the valve connecting rods. They are milled down to rectangular size with the fly cutter, then I started notching in the sides. The first side just has a shallow recess. (photo 3)
The second side has a much deeper recess - this has the effect of moving the clevis end out, so that the pairs of rods will line up in the center of the reverse gear link later. (photo 4)
After recessing the sides, the ends will milled for a slot to fit over the link. The cross hole in the ends will be drilled later with a jig, so that they all have the same distance from cam to link. (photo 5)
Last step for now was to drill/tap/countersink the bases of the rods into the followers. (photo 6)
Last photo shows the first pair done. After drilling the end hole, the sides will get tapered in and the ends rounded. Before that, I need to finish up the other two pairs...
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Phillips head screws!!! I guess they'd be rivets in another time. Good going on that, but why are there seven eccentrics for three cylinders? I've probably missed the obvious. Hugh.
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Great work as ever :praise2: How big are the slots you are milling in the forks at the end of the eccentric rods? From the ruler it looks to be around 2mm.
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Phillips head screws!!! I guess they'd be rivets in another time. Good going on that, but why are there seven eccentrics for three cylinders? I've probably missed the obvious. Hugh.
The obvious is over there, behind you. No, other side... Oops, it moved again!
Couple posts back when I showed the followers milled out I mentioned there was a spate. The block was just long enough for 7, so got an extra out of it in case of a mistake while making them. I can throw it in the locos' trunk with the spare wheel I made way back!
Oh, and the phillips heads - only countersunk head 2-56 screws that I have. If original, just imagine the size the screwdriver would have been for the train!
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Great work as ever :praise2: How big are the slots you are milling in the forks at the end of the eccentric rods? From the ruler it looks to be around 2mm.
Thanks! The slots are 1/8" to match the links, so closer to 3mm. My tools/material are mostly inch based, though the book is all metric, so its a mix.
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Thank you. Did you have problems with deflection causing the slot not to be parallel? I also work with small machines and find that the end mills tend to push off to one side.
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Thank you. Did you have problems with deflection causing the slot not to be parallel? I also work with small machines and find that the end mills tend to push off to one side.
Not on this one fortunately. I fed very slow, and had the cross slide locked down. Have had that issue before.
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Good Morning Gentlemen
That Problem does exist on any kind of milling machine (though the rigidity of a machine certainly has influence on how bad it is)
The problem seems to be that the milling flutes do bend easily. And that is getting worse with longer flute-length to diameter ratio.
There are some things that can help:
-cutting less deep in one pass
-using a smaller endmill for rough machining the slot
-using carbide endmills (they are around 3 times more rigid than highspeed steel endmills though they need a machine which is rigid enough or they will break very fast)
-drill the material away so the endmill only has to "finish" the slot
I sometimes also use the plunge-Milling technique but that also requires a finishing pass afterwards.
Cheers Florian
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You can also use a slitting saw by cutting from the side ;)
Jo
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I got the other two pairs of the valve connecting rods for the followers milled out like the first set, and moved on to finishing them. First up was to drill the hole in the top end for the pin that goes through the tabs on the reverse gear link. To make sure all of the were the same distance from center of the followers, which is critical to make sure that the forward/reverse settings both give same valve movement positions/distances, a little jig was made with a plug to fit in the follower hole and a hole the proper distance out an arm. All six of the rods were drilled with this same jig.
Then it was time to taper the connecting rod arms - took a quick look at what it would take to hold them steady for the milling machine, and decided it was easier and quicker just to take them up to the grinding wheel and taper them that way. Last photo shows them after tapering and rounding the ends, ready for final filing/sanding them pretty.
At this point in the book, Kozo goes on to the linkages for the reverse gear actuator. Naturally, after all this time, I am going to take a side trip and get the followers installed, the valves timed, and make up a test stand and some temporary plugs for the piston drain holes so I can test this puppy on compressed air! Got a bunch of other things that will take up a lot of time the next couple days - league shoots, getting outside now that it is finally warming up and melting all that snow, etc., so it will be a couple days till next post which hopefully has a video of the first air powered run! Stay tuned....
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I have not been able to get into the shop the last couple days, finally got going on installing the valve gear. Started out by lapping the eccentric followers to the eccentrics on the cranks. That all went well. I did run into one interference issue between the reverse gear pivot bolts and the conn rod tips - had to take off about half a mm from the hex heads on the pivot bolts. Once that was sorted, things started flowing. I started with the center piston, since to get the cover off the valve chest for that one you have to remove the right end cylinder. Below are a few pictures with the center pistons' valve gear all installed and timed. Lots o stuff in a very tight space - tough to get all the parts in and get the bolts started, but it is coming along nicely. Two more pistons to go, and I'll make up some temporary fittings so I can test run it on air (need to retain the reverse links at one side, plug the drain holes, make a block to hold the engine on the bench with the u-joints guided, and hook up the air hose - sounds like a lot but should not take too long. I hope. Maybe.)
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crueby-
It's coming along nicely. How much more until it is done?
-Bob
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crueby-
It's coming along nicely. How much more until it is done?
-Bob
Hi Bob, For the whole project - there is the rest of the reverse gear, drain piping for the cylinders, lots of water/steam/exhaust piping, the whistle, tender, water tank, more painting, lettering the tender, and lots of little details. At a guess, several months more anyway. I started last June, probably sometime around this June/July?? A lot depends on when spring really gets warm and I get out in the boats again - spring sailing time trumps all!
Chris
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That really is a blistering pace Chris. Wow. I look forward to when it is finished.
-Bob
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That really is a blistering pace Chris. Wow. I look forward to when it is finished.
-Bob
Being retired really helps the pace - otherwise add several years to this project!
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Still looking great Chris. I suspect the next air test is just around the corner.
Bill
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Still looking great Chris. I suspect the next air test is just around the corner.
Bill
Been lots of other stuff happening this week slowing progress, but moving forward slowly. I am thinking that I will test run it with the one cylinder first, since i am wondering about the width of the valve and the placement of the steam inlet hole, they overlap slightly more than I expected and I dont want to have to disassemble all three again. The inlet angles through the cylinder block to the vaslve face, which is different than any other engine I've built. Rather go slow at this stage and save a lot of work later. If the overlap is too much I will remake the valve sliders narrower. You can see the inlet in the upper right of the steam chest in photo 1 of reply post 584 from march 13.
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Finally got time tonight to take the right hand valve chest apart and check measurements to the book - clearance is fine on the slides. :cartwheel:
With everything assembled it looks really really close, but there is always coverage with the valve rim. That will save reworking the sliders. Phew!
So, back to original plan and will continue putting in the valve gear on the end cylinders...
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Important news first: IT RUNS!!!!! :whoohoo: :whoohoo:
Okay. Ahem. Back to the details.....
Got back into the shop yesterday and today after a bunch of delays for other events, leagues, family stuff, etc (all the usuals when you are anxious to get something done). Got the other two cylinders' valves installed/timed, oiled everything, along with making and installing all the gaskets, temporary plugs for oil feeds, air hose connection, and making a quick test stand (adapted a work support and made a couple little blocks to retain the u-joint ends so they would not whip around too much). With all that done, got out the compressor and started to feed it some air. It ran part way around, then would stop at same spot each time, at number 1 piston TDC. Pulled the valve cover, ran the valve down a turn or so, and buttoned it up again (glad it was not the center piston, that one requires removing the right hand cylinder). More air applied. At about 15 to 25 psi it self starts and runs very nicely, up and down the pressure range. After the obligatory Snoopy happy-dance, got out the camera and recorded an official test run - below. 8)
Major step - I am very happy with the progress on it lately! It sounds like there is a tweak needed in one of the cylinders still, I detect a minor hitch in the sound on each rev. I think I will wait till the reverse gear actuating lever is on before that adjustment, it may just be that the reverse links were not in quite the same spot, affecting the lead on the valves.
Here is the video:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JzB4O0XvtFY
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:whoohoo: Congratulations - I'm one of the many who have been following this very interesting thread quietly for a long time (though you are doing it fast) - a major milestone has been reached :praise2:
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Nice I really :Love: to see Shay engines run :pinkelephant:
:cheers:
Dan
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Hi Chris, congratulations to this successful test run with air. Nicely done and everything really fast. Waiting for the next steps like changing direction of rotation, now.
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8) Nice. I too am a Shay engine fan ;).
Seeing run that makes me wonder whatever happened to that D class 7 1/4" Shay that he who hath gone was making. :naughty:
Jo
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I imagine that was quite satisfying, Chris. Nice work!
~Hans
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Thanks guys! After a bunch more running it and celebrating :cartwheel:, this morning got started on the reverse gear actuator parts - just got the stock laid out for the hangers and the link arms, photos to follow soon...
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Magnificent :praise2: :praise2: It sounds good to me :ThumbsUp:
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Fantastic Chris...you much be pleased as punch with that...beauty in motion !!!! What a beauty it is :praise2: :praise2:
Bill
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Awesome Chris!
-Bob
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In the words of Cash," I hear the train a coming ". :ThumbsUp: :ThumbsUp:
Cletus
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Excellent Chris, I'm very happy for you (and me too!). Hugh.
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Well, in between running the engine more times, got a start on the rest of the reverse gear linkage. The hangers are brass bearings that bolt to the front of the piston rod guide columns and hold the rod that connects all the reverse gear link arms. They started out a length of brass bar, and drilled/reamed holes for three hangers down its length. (photo 1)
Next step was to drill the mount holes, measured off the centers of the bearing holes. (photo 2)
Then flipped it over and milled out the bearing shapes in the tops. (photo 3)
After cutting them apart and beveling over the corners of the bearings, they were all bolted up to the columns and the rod was test fit in them - a little adjustment on the positions and they were all set. (photo 4)
Next up will be the crank arms...
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"It's coming round the bend and I ain't seen the sunshine since the reverse linkages began " :lolb: :lolb: Can't wait to hear this one pull out of the station .
Cletus
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Beauty.
Maybe a stupid question that has been asked/answered...apologies...'what does the 'new' in 'new shay' refer to?
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Zee,
Kozo's first engine was a Shay then a bunch of other engines. This build is Kozo's second Shay design and the book is titled "Building the New Shay".
Dan
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Chris, you must be superhuman...do you ever sleep man?? :o
Bill
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Chris, you must be superhuman...do you ever sleep man?? :o
Bill
Oh yeah, lots. Just don't have to do that job nonsense since retiring a couple years ago. I saved up all that wasted time in meetings and am playing them back now!
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Kozo's first engine was a Shay then a bunch of other engines. This build is Kozo's second Shay design and the book is titled "Building the New Shay".
Aha. Sounds like I'm missing a book then. Thanks Dan.
Chris, you must be superhuman...do you ever sleep man?? :o
Oh yeah, lots. Just don't have to do that job nonsense since retiring a couple years ago. I saved up all that wasted time in meetings and am playing them back now!
Just a few more years for me (if I'm lucky). And then this thread will be an excellent reference. Really nice work.
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Kozo's first engine was a Shay then a bunch of other engines. This build is Kozo's second Shay design and the book is titled "Building the New Shay".
Aha. Sounds like I'm missing a book then. Thanks Dan.
Chris, you must be superhuman...do you ever sleep man?? :o
Oh yeah, lots. Just don't have to do that job nonsense since retiring a couple years ago. I saved up all that wasted time in meetings and am playing them back now!
Just a few more years for me (if I'm lucky). And then this thread will be an excellent reference. Really nice work.
I think this is Kozos' fifth book - the Shay in this one is from the 1920 timeframe, slightly different styling to it. One other thing he did in this one was to have two novice builders work from his drafts, and he updated/corrected from their feedback, so it has very few errors in it - tough thing on so many many plan sheets. I have learned a ton from his books.
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Got going on the crank arms for the reverse gear linkages today. There are three identical arms, that connect to the slide links, and one at the end (slightly longer) that connects to the lever in the cab through a set of u-joint type links. I got all four out of one bar of stainless - as before drilled all the holes first, counting off turns on the table to space them correctly with some extra between arms for cutting room. (photo 1)
Then, turned it on its side and drilled holes into the larger holes on the three shorter arms - these will be the starter holes for the cross pins that will hold them in place on the shaft. (photo 2)
With all the holes drilled, it was time to taper the arms. Tried a different method this time - set the bar in the vise at an angle (used the tops of the holes from one link as a reference line), and used the fly cutter in a series of shallow cuts to form the taper. With the first side done, it looks like a shallow staircase. The steps end just short of the next links' large hole, where it will be cut and rounded later. (photo 3)
With the second side done likewise, you can see the taper in each link. This method worked well, quicker than setting up a jig to bolt them to, but it is critical to make sure the piece cannot slip in the vise - it started to on the second side since I had missed a spot with a bur from the first side. Fortunately I caught it in time. In this picture (photo 4) the longer arm is on the left end.
Then it was just a matter of sawing them apart, and rounding the ends on the disc sander table (lots of dips in water to keep them cool). The longer arm is on the right in this picture. (photo 5)
Then it was time to solder up the long arm and one short one to form the crank. Kozo gives the measurements for a jig bar to give a right angle. A little spacer ring is between the two arms. (photo 6)
With the end cranks soldered up, next photo shows a test fit on the rod - the other two arms are just slipped on right now, they will get pinned in proper position later. Still need to make a couple more small rings that hold the assembly in place on the hanger blocks. (photo 7)
Last photo shows the rod/cranks in position on the engine for a test fit.
Next up will be to make the other rings, and then the connector arms that go to the reverse gear slides...
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Almost done with the reverse gear pieces now - been a fun day in the shop. First off, got going on the connector links from the crank arms to the sliders.Three are needed, and the closest stock of stainless bar I have let me get two out at a time. So, drilled the end holes in a bar long enough for two sets. (photo 1)
Then rotated it 90 in the vise, and milled the center sections out, first one side then the other. (photo 2)
After some rounding of the ends on the disc sander, put the links in the bench vise and sawed them down the middle to make the two pair. (photo 3)
Then, some cleanup filing, and it was time to test fit them on the cranks. (photo 4)
Last parts to make were the 'chain' that connect the lever in the cab down to the larger end crank arm. These are square links, with holes 90 degrees offset in either end. Two are same length, center one is a little longer (don't know why, that is what the book calls for. Seems like three equal length ones would work too?). Started like many other parts by notching the end tongues in on the mill on a longer piece. (photo 5)
Then drilled the holes in the tongues, and 90 rotated ones in the blocks. (photo 6)
After cutting them apart and sawing in slots in the square ends (fine hacksaw blade and filed smooth), all were assembled. The upper end will go on the end of the reverse lever arm I made a while back, at same time as the throttle lever. (photo 7)
Last shot shows the new parts test fit on the engine.
I am going to hold off pinning the arms in place on the rod though - this is a good time to do the painting on the engine. I will degrease the outside of the brass parts, mask off the crank/conn-rods, then airbrush on the black paint like the rest of the loco has. I may use that opportunity to do some touchup on the cab parts that were a little thin the first coat, and also paint the steam/sand domes. Its getting heavy to move around now! After painting, back to parts like steam inlet, exhaust, whistle....!
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What an interesting chain of links that adds up to. I've never seen something like that before. Hugh.
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As Hugh says that is an interesting looking chain for the reverser :headscratch: I don't quite understand why it needs so many joints ::)
Still following and enjoying :wine1:
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The chain acts as a universal joint on each end of a shaft. As the actuating lever in the cab moves, that arm end goes both up/down and a little forward/back on the train. The bottom end of the chain, at the crank arm on the shaft, goes also up/down, but moves to the trains' left/right a bit. I'll admit, I've never seen it done this way either, but it works quite well.
Going back to the pictures I took of the Shay engines at Cass WV and the steam museum in Pennsylvania, I saw they used a joint like this one, which looks to be a ball joint at either end.
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While waiting for the current coat of paint to cure up on the engine (photo 1), I decided to have some fun and skip ahead to make the whistle.
Since the scale whistle size would be an ear-splitting high note, Kozo designed a larger whistle that tucks behind the engine and up against the boiler. Since it is a larger diameter and longer tube, the note is much lower.
To start, found a length of tubing the right size (it is copper rather than brass, but I dont thing that will matter much to the sound), and then cut a shoulder on a piece of rod to be a push fit in the tube end. This will form the base of the whistle. (photo 2)
Then, on the remaining length, cut a shallow cap piece to plug the far end of the tube - this piece was soldered into the tube. (photo 3)
Back to the base piece, drilled a hole through for the steam passage. This end of the hole will be plugged with a bolt. It does not go all the way through, but meets up with the slot to be cut in a couple steps. (photo 4)
Drilled a hole in the side that met up with the lengthwise passage. The hole was enlarged at the opening to take the screw fitting which will take the steam tube from the whistle valve in the cab. (photo 5)
Then cut the slot in the side that the steam passage leads to. From this slot, a thin cut was made to the end to form the opening into the tube. This cut was just 0.2mm deep, so it does not show in the photos. (photo 6)
Then, cut the opening in the tube that makes the turbulance for the sound. (photo 7)
With the screw fitting and a mounting flange silver soldered on, and the bolt plugging the steam passage opening in place, the whistle is complete. (last photo)
Only way I know to get a sound posted here was to do it as a video clip - boring blank view, but the sound comes through. I was just blowing through the screw fitting for this - volume is lower than it will be but you can hear the note.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YTeTbavIFCw
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Chris, it says the video can only be played on youtube. Can you provide a direct link in that case or enable it to be viewed here?
Bill
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Chris, it says the video can only be played on youtube. Can you provide a direct link in that case or enable it to be viewed here?
Bill
Hi Bill - took some looking but I finally found the setting - I had turned off the 'allow embedding' option for some reason, that kept it from working properly. Wierd thing is it played fine on my PC, but not on my tablet. It seems to be fine on both now - sorry for the problem!
Chris
Also - with the progress lately I am rethinking bringing it to Cabin Fever - might make it after all. I need to get the reverse levers hooked up, make some more fitting plugs (easy), get some more of the piping done so I could run it through the boiler/throttle, and also make two more key parts: a set of riser blocks to let the wheels spin just above the rails, and also a carry case so I can strap it down in the back of the car safely (would not do to have it free-wheel around the inside of the car!). If it is looking like I can get that stuff done, I'll let people know. I have the parts I'd need to hook up to the house air supply there, would not take that much to get that made too.... Maybe!
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After getting the whistle made, I realized that it would save removing/reinstalling the engine an extra time to also make the whistle valve and piping, since that connects down behind the engine. Also, the whistle valve hole would need to be plugged to test the engine on air from the boiler anyway. So, on to the valve. For once I happened to have a piece of brass hex stock the right size, so chucked that up and turned down the end to fit into the steam manifold that sits on top of the boiler in the cab. The end was drilled/bored to form the seat for a ball bearing check valve. (photo 1)
Then, flipped it around and drilled/bored out the other end for the valve stem and o-ring retainer. (photo 2)
After silver soldering on a square block on top to hold the lever, and a threaded connector on the bottom for the outlet pipe, it looks like the third photo. (photo 3)
Next part was the plug that goes in the front end of the valve - this holds it in the manifold, and also holds the return spring for the ball bearing. (photo 4)
Last part to make was the actuating lever. It was rough hack-sawn from stainless, then milled/filed down to shape. (photo 5)
Last 2 photos show the parts all made, and then assembled.
Just need to make the tubing nipples and union nuts, and it can be installed...
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This afternoon I got the tubing fittings made and installed for the whistle/whistle valve assembly. Really glad I did this before installing the engine - would not have been room to get the whistle and its fittings in otherwise. Getting the tubing the right length and the union nuts started was a royal pain in the exhaust with so many other parts so close.
Anyway, the union nuts were simple to make - drilled a through hole a little larger than the tubing through a length of hex rod, and drilled/tapped the end, and parted it off. (photo 1)
The tubing nipples are bronze, and were made by first through drilling a hole, and drilling a shallow hole the diameter of the tubing. This is where the fitting will be soldered onto the tube. (photo 2)
Then, used the parting tool to narrow down a neck to match the hole in the fitting this will all screw onto. Parted it off, and silver soldered onto the tubing. (photo 3)
Then, a bunch of fat-fingered assembly, and the whistle is in place under the steam bracket. It will be un-noticed behind the engine. A scale-sized dummy whistle will be in the normal place atop the boiler - this larger whistle has a much lower pitch, wont be as ear splitting as a scale size one would be. With that done, and now that the paint on the engine has cured up, back to assembling the reverse gear linkage onto the engine. Once that is done, I'll cut the stop slots in the reverse gear hand lever rails, and can test/tune the valve timings for both directions. Lots of little fiddly stuff! Once all that is done I'll post another video of it running - probably be a couple days given other events here this week...
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Also - with the progress lately I am rethinking bringing it to Cabin Fever - might make it after all.
That would be great. Looking forward to it. :whoohoo:
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Got some plugs in for the water inlets, and hooked up the compressor to the boiler to test the whistle installation. Found a couple minor leaks in the snifter and throttle valve, have to sort those out - you can hear the hisses in the video. Here is a quick video of the whistle now that it is installed. You can see the whistle itself in the lower right corner - it is the round tube with the fittings on the left end.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E-OZ0uaZKbY
Also got the reverse gear rod/arms installed, plus made the first part of the steam inlet pipe. Still need to make the elbow that takes it to the boiler steam outlet fitting. Below is a shot of those.
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That'll help break the ice at parties! Lots of fun, well done. Whistles can be tricky things at times. Hugh.
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I'll second Zee's enthusiasm. Please bring it.
-Bob
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I'll second Zee's enthusiasm. Please bring it.
-Bob
I'm trying, Cap'n - giving it all she'll take! :Lol:
I'd love to bring it to Cabin Fever if I can get enough together in time. Lots of progress the last couple days - just got the reverse gear links all pinned, and ran a test of it in forward and reverse. All went well, was some clatter that I traced to the center con-rods' locknut, which worked loose, plus the valve eccentrics rattle against each other a hair, but that is not a functional problem. I tracked down the leaks in the throttle and snifter, so that part is done. Still have some more pipe fittings to make, and a biggie is working out a carry box that I can strap it down in the car with. If things keep on well this week, looks like I will be making reservations to hit the show! There will be no tender/water tank behind the cab (might make a cardboard cutout to show where it will be). Need to find out from you guys what the air hookup details are at the show so I can have that ready too - quick disconnects? 1/4-npt male/female, what? If I make it, I'll bring the loco, my double beam, and the marine triple engine.
Anyway, here is the running video - part way in, I shift the reverse link down to middle to stop it, then over to the other end to reverse it. It does run nice and slow at around 10 or 12 psi (at least according to the little gauge on the compressor). :DrinkPint:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TvP8KS-DThs
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Hi Crueby,
She's coming along in leaps & bounds...... & big ones at that!
I'm sure that if you take her along to CF nobody will mind if few bits are missing! Of coarse the obligatory pictures are a must, espeacilly for those of us that have no chance of getting there!
As to a carry something......Kozo's Heisler book, & if I looked, & Climax, have a section on a carry case, does the New Shay book not have it? I've got both my locos in frames, being 5" a bit bigger than the shay, can post a pic if you are interested. These bolt into a trailer, or with Toby, just sits it the back of the SUV, both locos then are bolted securely down, both have been dragged many kilometers .
Cheers Kerrin
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Hi Crueby,
She's coming along in leaps & bounds...... & big ones at that!
I'm sure that if you take her along to CF nobody will mind if few bits are missing! Of coarse the obligatory pictures are a must, espeacilly for those of us that have no chance of getting there!
As to a carry something......Kozo's Heisler book, & if I looked, & Climax, have a section on a carry case, does the New Shay book not have it? I've got both my locos in frames, being 5" a bit bigger than the shay, can post a pic if you are interested. These bolt into a trailer, or with Toby, just sits it the back of the SUV, both locos then are bolted securely down, both have been dragged many kilometers .
Cheers Kerrin
For sure parts would be missing - tender, etc, but I do want it to be running.
The New Shay book does show how to build a carry box, I just have not made it yet. My SUV does have some tie down rings, have to see how strong they are. Could always coat the bottom of the box in velcro and stick it to the carpet!!
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The last couple days I've gotten some more painting done on the engine and on the steam domes, plus reworked some gaskets that were leaking a bit.
Also took some time to install the CNC ready bearing/adapter sets on the mill. I am not switching to CNC, but these parts from Sherline solve a problem with their machines that have bugged me for a LONG time. They have a nice anti-backlash adjustment for the leadscrews, but the tables are held to the leadscrews in part by the handwheels. Not a bad way, as long as there is a way to adjust the pretension on that connection. But, there is NOT. They use a small grub screw through the handwheel into the end bar on the leadscrew. That screw never holds position that long, so you are constantly readjusting the fit, since the play builds up to a horrible level. With the CNC fittings, they used proper ball bearing thrust bearings, with a preload adjustment from the leadscrew. All I had to do was to make a little connector bar and plate to take the place of the stepper motor, and am back in business without all the play in the tables. Why they dont switch all thier machines to a setup like this is baffling - costly to rework old machines, but new ones could be done that way pretty easy. Okay, end of rant!!
Now, on to the steam pipe and exhaust pipe fittings. For both, there is an elbow fitting needed to turn the pipes into the boiler. They start out as a short length of hex bar stock, with a smaller hole drilled through and a larger one bored halfway through, all done with the four-jaw chuck on the lathe. (photo 1)
Then, the bar was turned lengthwise in the 3-jaw, and the shape turned in for one arm of the final fitting. (photo 2)
Then, a crossbar was made to fit the holes in the first bar, and to form the part of the fitting going off at 90 degrees to the first bar. The third picture shows the parts for both the steam and the exhaust elbows ready for silver soldering. (photo 3)
Then, naturally, they were silver soldered together... (photo 4)
and the hex and round extension parts of the bar used to chuck it up in the lathe for drilling/tapping the ends of the elbows (next three photos). (photos 5,6,7)
The last photo shows the fittings all drilled/tapped, and ready to cut off/round over the upper and right parts of the fittings. Out of time for that today, will pick up on it tomorrow...
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Hi Crueby
Just stopping in to say that I'm still following along, and still enjoying it! You sure are doing
some nice work on this.
Standing by for the next installment :popcorn:
Cheers, Joe
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Hi Crueby
Just stopping in to say that I'm still following along, and still enjoying it! You sure are doing
some nice work on this.
Standing by for the next installment :popcorn:
Cheers, Joe
Thanks Joe - pass the popcorn! :popcorn:
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Still going on the steam and exhaust pipes. I got the elbows trimmed down and filed the corners round. First photo shows the pipework so far.
To get the pipes fitted to length, was finally time to install the engine for the (hopefully) last time. Turned out I needed to trim the slots a little in the engine cover, then I could start installing pipes. Next two photos show the engine in, and the steam pipe fit.
Fourth photo shows the exhaust pipe fit. It is an inner piece of tubing, wrapped in insulation, and an outer larger tube cover. The elbow connects to a short length of tubing in the smokebox that directs the exhaust up the stack.
Last part for the steam tube is the cover. In the real thing it would be an insulating wrap. In the book, Kozo shows to make a dummy cover out of wood, so I went down to the carving bench a cut s groove in two pieces of wood with a ball end rotary bit. The two halves are glued on, when set I'll trim and fair the outside to shape and install it.
While fitting the engine, I found that the chain links for the reverse gear mechanism came up a little short, so I am going to remake the center link a little longer. Then I'll be able to cut the slots in the lever rack for the forward full/60%, and reverse full/60% positions. Once that is done, I'll start work on some riser blocks to fit under the truck frames. These will raise the wheels off the track slightly, so I can test run the engine on air without the loco leaving the room without me - that would be embarrising!
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Quick update - got the steam pipe cover faired down and installed (photo below). Naturally had to check for leaks in the connection, so gave it a little pressure from the compressor. So far so good. Then, backed it up to the end of the display track, ran the pressure up some more, and very carefully pulled back some on the throttle bar.... Got first revs of the loco as it moved forward the 6 inches available on the track under its own power (well okay, an assist from the compressor) ! :cartwheel:
So, now gonna move forward with the jacking blocks to raise the wheels a smidge (lets see - two pinches to the smidge, three smidges to the little bit...) off the track so I can run it on the trestle - the mod to the reverse gear link can wait!
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I'm still following along too Chris...just had a crazy busy week and haven't been able to post much. Still looking at every update though :)
Bill
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Big step today - got some riser blocks figured out (experimented with scissor jacks and such, just not enough room under the trucks for them - went with some shaped wood supports) so I could lift the wheels off the track a bit to run the engine without the train leaving the station on me. Took some fiddling to carve out recesses for the brakes, pumps, etc that hang down from the bottom of the truck frames. Here is a video of it all running on air, forward and reverse.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H_ORN9c9NtE
Also, got a start on the tender. In the book, at this point Kozo works on all the plumbing still to be done (oil feeds, check valves, water feeds, etc). Right now I need a break from that stuff, and have decided to skip a few pages and work on the tender parts for a while. So far, I have the base plate made - does not look like much, just a rectangular plate with a whole swarf-load of holes to be laid out, drilled, tapped, countersunk. Most of these holes will be used to hold the supports for the tank sides, some will hold pumps and plumbing. Photos below.
Next up will be to form the support bars that will run on the inside edges of the water tank.
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Chris, you must be smiling from ear to ear after that...who wouldn't be!! I have been looking forward to seeing that. Truly an amazing build and one which I know you are proud of too!!
Bill
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I hear the train a coming, it's coming round the bend 8). Damn nice job.
Cletus
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Hi Chris, congratulations on this important mile stone.
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So good to see that video Chris. Congratulations. Hugh.
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Chris-
One word: Awsome!
-Bob
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Thanks guys - still grinning and going in to run it a lot!
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"I hate to hear that lonesome whistle blow.."
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BIhwRkV8On8
This is one of my favorite songs that I can play on my guitar. Here's a jazzier version. I use my own interpretation.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BqOgdV4k2d8
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Time to get caught up a bit - not too much time in the shop this week due to some minor family medical issues. Given the ongoing needs there, I will not be making it to Cabin Fever or Names this year :'(, but am planning on bringing the engine next year.
I did get the tender frame parts made - these bars line the upper and lower edges of the outer skin of the tender, holding them to the baseplate and providing a support for the tank lid. The book/plans give locations and sizes for cutouts at the corner areas where the bars are taken down thin enough to bend to a tight radius. After laying them out on the bars, and end mill was used to eat away the notches... (photo 1)
Second photo shows the bars for the lower edge of the coal bunker recess in the water tank. The upper one has been bent to shape, the lower is ready to go.
Third photo shows the two bars bent to shape.
After this, the same was done for the longer bars that go around the water tank sides/back, plus the other bars that go around the top of the tank. (photo 4)
Next step was to make the tank side plates. They are cut from brass sheet stock (book calls for 1mm, I used nearest inch size). The tank also gets rectangular plates on the sides and back that double up the thickness. The corner areas plus the flat plates get embossed with dummy rivet heads. To make the rivet heads, the sheet is embossed from the back side with a center punch held in the drill press (NOT running, just pressing down), going into a recess in a backer block. To make the backer, I cut a row of hemispherical holes into the block with a small ball head bur. The holes were the same distance apart as the finished rivets will be, and the right distance from a fence block. (photo 5)
To form the rivets, the tank side was held up against the fence, and the drill press quill pulled down to push the punch into the metal, deforming it into the hole in the backer block. Then the sheet was moved over so the newly formed head dropped into the next hole, and the process repeated. By having the holes act as an indexer, a row of evenly spaced rivet heads can be formed very quickly. (photo 6)
Next photo (7) shows a closeup of a row of the rivet heads embossed into the sheet.
Last photo shows the side plates with rivets formed around the edges, plus another pair of rows down the midlle (same process, fence farther from the holes). After all the rivet heads were done, the side sheets were ready to bend to match the frame pieces....
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The dummy rivets look great Chris and the idea of using a previously formed head to index to the next position obviously worked well. Nice planning and execution on that!!
Bill
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The dummy rivets look great Chris and the idea of using a previously formed head to index to the next position obviously worked well. Nice planning and execution on that!!
Bill
Got the idea for that from the old way I was taught to make finger joints in wood on the tablesaw, with a spacer block next to the dado head to step the block over cut after cut. The rivets had enough slop fitting in the holes that when getting to the next corner I could space them a tiny bit closer or farther apart to get them to work out even at the end - working some things out by eye is quicker/easier than measuring...
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Nice bending Chris, I'll abstain from riveting puns, but the jig and result are great. Hugh.
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Beautiful progress Chris. Sorry to here about the family medical issue. Looking forward to next year's Cabin Fever to see the completed engine.
-Bob
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..., I'll abstain from riveting puns,... Hugh.
Aw, come on, pun away!
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Beautiful progress Chris. Sorry to here about the family medical issue. Looking forward to next year's Cabin Fever to see the completed engine.
-Bob
Thanks - nothing too major, just time consuming and obviously it takes precedence. See you all there next year!
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Got some more time in the shop for some tender work. The panels for the tender water tank were bent to match the shapes of the supports, and holes were drilled for screws to hold it all together for soft soldering the seams. Photos 1 to 3 below show the tank shell plus the extra side panels. The red line near the top shows where another trim piece will be applied and the shell trimmed down to....
Fourth photo shows the start on fitting/screwing on the upper tank supports. These will stiffen the sides, plus form a shelf for the tank lid to sit on.
With the upper supports all screwed in place, the trim piece around the outside of the upper edge was made from some sheet stock, and everything was soldered up. At that point, the top edge of the tank was sawn/filed down to the top of the trim piece. (photo 5)
Last two photos show the tank with the screw heads filed off, and after a prime coat of paint. Really changes the appearance of the whole locomotive a lot!
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Wow Crueby! This is looking so cool!
I know I haven't said much, but I have been following along with your excellent build. It is just stunning! Thanks for sharing.
Kim
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I was so looking forward to seeing you and the Shay at CF,but, it seems we'll both have to wait until next year. The project is progressing by leaps and bounds and I am enjoying every bit of it. Keep up the good work pal
Cletus
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Thanks all - things have turned out well on the family side of things, still not getting the usual time in the shop quite yet but getting more back to normal. I was hoping to make the show, will definitely be there next year! When I started it last June, never thought it would be this far along by now. Looks like the major parts will all be done in April, but there will be a plumber van full of piping still to make for all the water and oil systems, with all its valves, check valves, and fittings. With warmer weather finally making it to the northeast, going to be out boating a lot soon, hopefully!
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Well that is just the icing on the cake Chris. There can't be too much left to do now. I do hope we will get to see it under steam at some point :)
Bill
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Well that is just the icing on the cake Chris. There can't be too much left to do now. I do hope we will get to see it under steam at some point :)
Bill
Amazing how heavy it is getting now - going to be fun moving it for final painting! Lets see, tracks out to the garage, switchback down basement stairs...!
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Be sure to secure all crossings and let us hear the pull up the steps :LittleDevil:
C
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Once in a while (quite often on this forum actually), you come across a picture that just stops you...followed by 'wow', 'cool', 'omg'.
Very nice!
As I said before...inspirational.
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I just love this engine more and more.
FWIW: Apparently, CF has been moved to mid January for 2016.
-Bob
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Where did you hear that Bob? If true it isn't welcome news from my standpoint :disappointed:
Bill
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I don't want to hijack Chris's thread, but there is a thread over at Home Shop Machinist about attending CF. Someone posted about the new date in that thread and George B. apparently confirmed it. The location is also different.
That's a bad time of the year for me too Bill. I'll have to make the most of this year.
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It used to be midwinter, then they moved it later. I hope it stays in spring, winter driving up here can really suck. Attendance has been good, don't know why they might move it. For those going to the show, ask about it!
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Back in the shop, made up the manhole cover that goes in the water tank lid. It makes both a good handle for lifting the lid, plus the handle for the manual pump in the tank can run through the manhole cover. The book calls for brass for the base ring, but I did not have any quite large enough, did have some 6061 aluminum, so made it from that. The outside lip was turned to size, the ring parted off and turned around to bore the center out. (photo 1)
I did have a piece of brass large enough diameter for the cover plate, so parted off a disc of that, and milled the flat on the edge for the hinge (matching flat also on the base ring). (photo 2)
For the hinges, started with two short lengths of flat bar, and drilled through for the hinge pin on the lathe. (photo 3)
With a length of rod through the hinge pin hole to position it in the vise, used the mill to step the bars. (photo 4)
Last steps were to mill out the center section of the longer bar to fit around the shorter one, and drill bolt holes to hold them to the base ring and cover. (photo 5)
Next photo (6) shows the cover ready to fit to the tank lid.
Last photo shows the cover in place on the tank lid, ready to paint.
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Other part made today was the bracket to hold the light on the back of the tender. It was made just like the headlight on the front of the boiler - notch three pieces of sheet brass so they slip together, and silver solder the joints. (photos 1 and 2)
Then, the overlaps are cut and filed down to shape. (last two photos)
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Been short on shop time lately, starting to get back to normal now. Next thing up on the tender were the sandbox and ladder for the back end. The sandbox is a simple shape, just a large box with the center area cut out, but it is quite large. In the book he mentions that you can make it out of two blocks of brass, or anything else. I happened to have some aluminum bar the right size, so I used that. It was made in two halves, with the shape done on the mill while the blocks were clamped down on a piece of wood to protect the table. (photo 1)
After milling the outline, the two blocks were glued together with some JB Weld epoxy (a spacer block on the back side also straddles the joint to help hold it together. The lid plates on top were made out of brass. (photo 2)
A coat of paint, and the sandbox was done. (photo 3)
Next up was the ladder. The sides were bent from some square brass bar (heated with a torch and bent hot). Holes were drilled in the sides for the rungs. The rungs themselves were made frm brass rod, with the ends turned down with the parting tool (did the end, moved it out in the chuck, positioned the parting tool to proper length by counting turns on the lathe bed, and the other end turned in). This way the rungs self-spaced the sides for soldering. (photo 4)
With the rungs soldered on, and some crossbars at top/bottom to take bolts to hold it in place, the ladder was done. (photo 5)
I took the engine and tender down to the basement to get some more painting done the other day, and now that the paint has cured up it was time to get the lettering onto the tender. I had done some experiments with printing the text onto self-adhesive film to make stencils with, but that was a failure. So, went back to old standby of using dry transfer (rub on) letters. Woodland Scenics has a good font available in white letters, so got several sets of those (each page only has a few of some letters, so needed 4 pages altogether). To get a spacing guide, I set up a light box from my photography days and traced the lettering off onto a sheet of paper. Important thing was to get the spacing to look right, so the tracing mainly had the left/right edges with the middle of the letter just sketched in. When I had a set of tracings that looked good, they were cut out and taped just below where the actual letters would go, and I started laying down the real letters. If you have never used them, quick description: the letters are printed onto the back of a sheet of plastic - you line up the letter you want on the surface you want it on, and rub over the top of the plastic with a burnisher or (what I like to use) a dull pencil (do kids today know what a pencil is?) That rubbing sticks the letter to your work, and releases it from the plastic sheet. After they are all down, you go back and rub it some more through another sheet that looks like heavy tracing paper to make sure it is well stuck down. If you want you can clear coat over them (I have done that on boat models, for this project I did not). (photo 6)
Next photo shows the first panel with all the letters on, ready to bolt onto the tender (the plate has threaded studs in the corners that go through the tender walls and bolt on the inside).
Last photo shows the tender just about done, still needs the white strip along the edge of the floor - next up will be the lights for back of tender and front of the boiler. Really looking like a train now - amazing how different it looks with the tender made. For those following along with Kozo's book, I have skipped over all the remaining plumbing steps - will go back to that stuff last.
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That's looking so good Chris - must be the paint job (nice colours!). Is that Letraset you've used? Perhaps there are substitutes available, I haven't seen it for a while. That is a good font, I guess dealing it with a clear coat would clash with the matt finish. Cheers, Hugh.
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Just caught up with your build again :ThumbsUp: :ThumbsUp: Magnificent as ever :praise2: :praise2:
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That's looking so good Chris - must be the paint job (nice colours!). Is that Letraset you've used? Perhaps there are substitutes available, I haven't seen it for a while. That is a good font, I guess dealing it with a clear coat would clash with the matt finish. Cheers, Hugh.
Letraset also makes letters like this, though their selection in white letters is very limited. For this one I used ones from Woodland Scenics - they have a big selection in railroad styles. I did try a clear coat on some scrap, even the matte finish stuff was too glossy to match up. The paint I am using is actually more of a glossy finish, but with thinning way down for airbrushing it goes on in a nice flat pebbly finish since it is drying almost as it hits.
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Chris-
One word: stunning.
-Bob
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Thanks Bob!
Moving on to more of the finishing touches - time to make the head/tail lights for the loco. They started out as a length of brass rod stock, outside turned to size with a shallow ring detail at one end, then bored out for the light mechanism. Since the through-hole was larger than the hole in the center of the chuck, I bored the through hole from one end to about halfway through the length, then flipped it around and finished it from the other end. A step was left at the lens end of the lights, to hold the glass in place. (photo 1)
Next step was to make the base and side pieces. They needed to have an inside radius to match the outside of the light body, so I bored a hole in a larger piece of bar stock, then moved it over to the rotary table on the mill to put on the flats around the outside. All the pieces for both lights were gotten out of one piece - in the book he shows getting one set per block, but it all fits from one bar. The bases are taller than the side blocks, so two of the flats are farther from the center than the other four. (photo 2)
After that, a hacksaw was used to make the lengthwise cuts to seperate out the blocks. As you can see in the next photo, the base blocks have tapered sides, the side blocks are rectangular. (photo 3)
With all the cuts made, the pieces were parted off from the bar, and they were clamped in place on the bodies to drill/tap for temporary screws to hold everything for silver soldering. (photo 4)
After soldering the blocks on, the screws were milled off flush, and recesses made in the outer panels of the side blocks. (photo 5)
With the shell done, aluminum center pieces were turned to fit inside the bodies, with a hemispherical reflector shape bored/sanded into the ends. (photo 6)
Last two photos show the lights all assembled, with a brass back panel bolted onto the back. There are holes internally to hold a light bulb (I will find an LED light to fit, might cannibalize some cheap flashlights), and a hole in the back/bottom for the power lead. A little paint and they will be ready to mount to the tender and front of the boiler...
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Time to ring in the bell for the loco. It started as a short length of brass bar, with a hole drilled most of the way in. That was bored out at an angle (freehand turning both cranks) to form the inside of the bell. (photo 1)
Then, with a combination of the left and right handed turning tools, followed by files and sandpaper, the outside of the bell was shaped down to the 'bell' curve shape, and parted off. (photo 2)
The hanger bracket was made from a bit of sheet brass, drilled/bent/silver soldered to a length of rod. The center section of the rod was then cut out, leaving the projections at either end. (photo 3)
Next two photos (4/5) - turning down the cap nut for the top, and the clapper for the bell. A short length of threaded rod will go through the bell, and the clapper will hang on a loop of wire through a hole in the bottom of the rod.
Photo 6 shows all the pieces, ready for assembly.
And last two photos show the bell all together - has a nice tone, very high pitch since it is only an inch across. Next up will be the base bracket for the bell, and then the whistle...
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All these details only serve to make it all the more awesome Chris. Love it!!
Bill
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That bell is really cute! I love it! The lights too. Can't wait to see all the bells & lights (or whistles? :)) on the engine!
Kim
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Hi Chris, as already mentioned by the others, all these details will give the special touch to your model. I like it very much.
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+1 for the bell and the light :praise2: :praise2:
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All these details only serve to make it all the more awesome Chris. Love it!!
:ThumbsUp:
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Great bell there, you'll be making a carillon next. I'm looking forward to hearing it ring! Hugh.
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Very well done indeed Crueby. Your attention to the detail and excellent explanations of how you do things are great.
A question for you ... do you know what the differences are between Kozo's first Shay book and the New Shay that you are doing?
Tom
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Very well done indeed Crueby. Your attention to the detail and excellent explanations of how you do things are great.
A question for you ... do you know what the differences are between Kozo's first Shay book and the New Shay that you are doing?
Tom
The first shay book was for an earlier style loco, the second one is a 1920, the shape of the boiler is different, the first one has a bigger step in front. The lights, stack are different shaoe, and the trucks are framed simpler in the first oner. I have both books, and flipping through I think the second one has better description of techniques, larger drawings too.
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Got the rest of the bell frame made - another bit of flat stock drilled at the ends and bent to shape for the base, and another length for the lever. (photo 1)
The whistle is pretty straightforward, since it is a dummy one. This one is to scale size, the working one I made earlier is much larger and tucked behind the engine. The working one has a nice deep tone, this one if working would make dogs up the street howl! The body of it is a length of rod drilled and turned to shape, with three mouths filed through into the center hole near the base. It also has a small cap that will be silver soldered in place. (photo 2)
The base is in a couple parts - third photo shows turning the upright, which has a threaded base, a flange, then a top post which will get a short thread on it to go into the body.
Fourth photo shows the whistle all done - the horizontal part and the lever are again just dummy parts - correct outer shape but solid.
The rest of the photos show the bell, whistle, and headlight all in place.
Finally, here is a short video of the bell - has a good ring, though since being so small it is not very loud....
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-ab3Hv6X4Ig
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Chris-
It just keeps getting better and better. I really hope that you can get to Cabin Fever with it come January and that I can also make it there so i can see it.
-Bob
Edit reason: Stupid auto correct on my tablet changed my name to Job!!
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Chris-
It just keeps getting better and better. I really hope that you can get to Cabin Fever with it come January and that I can also make it there so i can see it.
-Job
I am hoping to be there next time. A lot will depend on the weather that week - hope for a milder storm season than this past one!
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Crueby, Thank You for the explanation of the two versions of this engine. Does Kozo give a Module or Dp size for the gears on the first Shay?
Love the wee bell ... just super.
Tom
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Crueby, Thank You for the explanation of the two versions of this engine. Does Kozo give a Module or Dp size for the gears on the first Shay?
Love the wee bell ... just super.
Tom
The gears are shown as module 1, 20 and 40 tooth. He gives part numbers to buy them from suppliers and modify the posts. For mine, I adapted them to the .75 module cutters I have and made my own, much cheaper and more fun.
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Thanks Again. I have the Module .8 cutters that he calls for in a couple of his other books. I will experiment and see what I come up with.
Tom
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Next up on the Shay is the generator - this sits on top of the boiler in front of the cab, and uses a steam turnbine to make electricity. Like the small whistle, this is a dummy part - looks right but does not function. The main body of it was turned out of a chunk of brass bar stock - lots of steps in with the parting tool, plus some filing for the rounded parts. (photo 1)
Second photo shows it after parting off.
After the main body, made up the mounting brackets (used rotary table to make the arc to match the body) plus made up the other little bits like the exhaust stack, all silver soldered together. (photos 3 and 4). A coat of paint and it will be ready to mount on top of the boiler - there is a mounting stud built into the boiler shell to take a bolt for it.
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Just beautiful metal carving :ThumbsUp: :ThumbsUp:
Cletus
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I'll second what Eric said. That is beautiful.
-Bob
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Thanks guys. I always like doing that kind of freestyle work in brass, like whittling on a lathe. No critical dimensions to fit another part, so can just go till it looks right. :stir:
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A little more whittling on the lathe, and the compressor is made. It is a set of simple parts, mostly bolted together (couple little ones silver soldered). None of the parts are complicated, but the assembly looks pretty neat. It will get painted, then bolted onto the left side running board, along with some piping to the cab and smokebox.
Next to make are the toolbox and air tank....
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Next to make are the toolbox and air tank....
Complete with tools I hope :)
The compressor and generator look great btw.
Bill
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Next to make are the toolbox and air tank....
Complete with tools I hope :)
The compressor and generator look great btw.
Bill
Had not thought of tools, but.... Hmmmm...!
A teensy ratchet would be tough! Good thing they would have had BIG wrenches, hammers... At Cass, saw some engines had tools, jacks hanging off the frame too. Good idea, have to see what I can come up with!
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Got a start on the tool box. It is made of some brass sheet, cut to shape then edges trimmed with the mill, and silver soldered together. The hinge took a bit of fussing to get it to clear along the back, but not bad. It cannot open all that far anyway since the lid will contact the boiler when open. Below are some photos.
Now, after a great suggestion from b.lindsey, I am going to see about making up a pile of little (well, scaled up they will be quite large) tools - wrenches, hammers, etc. The wrench in the photos is about the size some of them would be - that is not a model but one I use.
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Hi Crueby,
This just gets better & better!! Well heres something else to add....a timber jack or two...
heres a link if you dont know what one is..
http://www.creationz.co.nz/kiwinuggets/2006/09/timber-jack.html
and this is how its used, back in the day when men were men & so were some of the girls!!
http://www.teara.govt.nz/en/photograph/12747/using-timber-jacks
Ive seen these, & picked one up, would hate to have had to carry it round the bush! My Dad can remember seeing them being used, he says that some of the log were huge that the guys were pushing around
Cheers Kerrin
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Hi Kerrin,
Thanks for those links! Amazing how large a log they could move. I just took a few pine trees out of the back yard, fortunately nothing that huge!
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Just a couple of quick progress pics to show - the compressor, air tank, generator, etc parts are painted and installed now, and also got the white floor edge stripe on the tender painted. I have gone back and am making the water piping, connecting up the tender tank, axle pump, hand pump, water return valve, check valves to the boiler. Mostly it is mass producing union nuts, nipples, and connectors, plus bending lots of tubing.... After that I'll probably tackle the drain cock assembly for the cylinders - that looks to be a lot of teensy parts! Then on to the oil lines/valves... This part of the build is all the little fiddly details behind the scenes. Also going to see about making up some small tools for the toolbox...
Next time that it is a little warmer/sunnier outside, I am going to take the loco outside and get some good pictures of it (we have regressed from spring back to wintry weather again, actually had some snow the last couple days!).
Yesterday the local raptor research organization had its annual public event (one of the bays here on the south shore of Lake Ontario is on the migration route for all sorts of hawks/eagles/etc), and I got to participate in the photo session with a collection of hawks, eagles, falcons, owls - took a ton of pictures, and at the end I got a chance to fly one of the hawks - last pic below is of that! Great experience!