Model Engine Maker

Engines => Your Own Design => Topic started by: cfellows on July 01, 2018, 11:42:50 PM

Title: Maudslay Marine Engine
Post by: cfellows on July 01, 2018, 11:42:50 PM
I can't in all honesty promise I'll finish this project but I've decided to give it a try.  I've wanted to build this model for many years but other than a couple of pictures, I've not been able to find any other information on it.  I'm pretty sure I've figured out how the rotary valve works through a combination of cylinder oscillation and an eccentric driven rod.  Finding the single cylinder version finally inspired me to get going with it and that's the model I'll try to copy.  Here is a picture of it for those who haven't seen it in my other post.

(https://www.gracesguide.co.uk/images/b/b9/JD_2016_J_Spiller.jpg)

 I started work on the bottom cylinder end / valve body today.  It was carved from a piece of brass and measures 1.25" x 7/8" x 5/8".

(https://i.imgur.com/aSPENws.jpg)

The bore of the engine will be 9/16" and the stroke will be around 1.5".  Let's see how it goes...

Chuck
Title: Re: Maudslay Marine Engine
Post by: b.lindsey on July 02, 2018, 12:00:18 AM
It's a lovely engine Chuck and I am glad you are going to attempt it. Will definitely be following along on this one.

Bill
Title: Re: Maudslay Marine Engine
Post by: zeeprogrammer on July 02, 2018, 12:05:28 AM
It's a lovely engine Chuck and I am glad you are going to attempt it. Will definitely be following along on this one.

Same here. I always enjoy following your threads.
Title: Re: Maudslay Marine Engine
Post by: Tennessee Whiskey on July 02, 2018, 01:30:19 AM
Chuck, that’s mechanical art. I’m betting you’ll do it proud.

Cletus
Title: Re: Maudslay Marine Engine
Post by: kvom on July 02, 2018, 01:51:38 AM
Are you sure it's a marine engine?  I wouldn't think marine engine's would have a flywheel that size.  Regardless, it looks like a good model to attempt.  :ThumbsUp:
Title: Re: Maudslay Marine Engine
Post by: cfellows on July 02, 2018, 04:07:21 AM
Thanks for the vote of confidence, folks.  I'm not sure his engine was ever produced full size, let alone for marine use.  I agree the flywheel is way larger than you'd expect to see for a boat or ship.  Actually, it's probably not suitable for any practical use.  Might just have been Henry Maudslay's momentary dabbling with fancy.

Title: Re: Maudslay Marine Engine
Post by: Johnmcc69 on July 02, 2018, 04:20:19 AM
"dabbling with fancy"...
I like that.

 Dabble away Chuck. You'll do it proudly.

 John
Title: Re: Maudslay Marine Engine
Post by: Ramon Wilson on July 02, 2018, 07:07:39 AM
That's a very nice looking engine Chuck, I'll look forwards to your progress as it develops  :ThumbsUp:

Always wanted to follow our good friend 'Don 1066' and do an all brass engine - you have a great subject there  ;)

Regards - Ramon
Title: Re: Maudslay Marine Engine
Post by: Jasonb on July 02, 2018, 07:10:15 AM
Look forward to seeing this one develope

As it was only a model to test his designs it is likely they just put a large flywheel on it for test purposes, the real thing having a big paddle wheel on the ends of the crankshaft.
Title: Re: Maudslay Marine Engine
Post by: cfellows on July 03, 2018, 03:23:22 AM
Thanks again, guys, for the kind words.  I got a good start on the cylinder and the top cylinder cover.

(https://i.imgur.com/P0gNF6c.jpg)

(https://i.imgur.com/RTERhaI.jpg)

I cut the middle cylinder profile but won't cut the two outer ones until I've finished all the machining operations on the cylinder.  The boss on top of the cylinder cover will be threaded to accept a cap which will hold packing.  Not, perhaps very scale, but easy and effective.

Chuck
Title: Re: Maudslay Marine Engine
Post by: gbritnell on July 03, 2018, 11:29:12 AM
Brass might not be prototypical but it sure is pretty. I'm following along Chuck. Another interesting replica for your collection.
gbritnell
Title: Re: Maudslay Marine Engine
Post by: cfellows on July 03, 2018, 06:16:54 PM
Here are some drawings from Fusion 360 that show what I'm aiming for...

(https://i.imgur.com/jKBSPyo.jpg?1)

Showing the porting

(https://i.imgur.com/cQXCs5P.jpg?1)

(https://i.imgur.com/Ywd8RJp.jpg?1)

This is a drawing of the rotary valve...

(https://i.imgur.com/Bs4a4GI.jpg)
Title: Re: Maudslay Marine Engine
Post by: cfellows on July 03, 2018, 07:07:03 PM
I have a question for you folks with more soldering experience.  I want to soft solder the small block to the cylinder, as shown in this image.

(https://i.imgur.com/ixLEmZI.jpg)

Should I tin the back of the block first?  Or just apply flux to the block & the cylinder, put it in place, and flow solder in from the edge?  I'd like to get pretty complete coverage of the solder in the joint.

Thx... Chuck
Title: Re: Maudslay Marine Engine
Post by: crueby on July 03, 2018, 07:54:02 PM
I have used the Tix brand solder for this sort of thing a lot on steam engines and ship models - it has a liquid flux, wicks into place very well (it is intended for jewelry making). It is quite strong for a soft solder, though it has a lower melting point than most of them (somewhere around 300F I think), and you need to wash off the flux well afterwards or it will mark up the surface. Not cheap, but very good.
Tinning the back is always a little tricky, you would want a spring clamp to push it down as the solder melts, or it wont  join up right, and you risk it shifting sideways. Better is to use a prick punch on the flat mating surfaces to make the parts stay a thou apart, and let the solder fill the tiny gap, it will wick right in with the flux. That way, you can use a small clamp to hold the parts in alignment during soldering.
Title: Re: Maudslay Marine Engine
Post by: Jasonb on July 03, 2018, 07:57:40 PM
What the man says

This popped up just now on a Pintrest collection, maybe you should go for a twin cylinder version, may be worth a bit more when finished :o

http://www.bonhams.com/auctions/23024/lot/79/

click on the image then + several times to zoom right in

EDIt the whole sale looks to have had some interesting models

http://www.bonhams.com/auctions/23024/
Title: Re: Maudslay Marine Engine
Post by: Stuart on July 03, 2018, 08:18:41 PM
Do my old eyes deceive me £36 k  :zap:
Title: Re: Maudslay Marine Engine
Post by: Ramon Wilson on July 03, 2018, 10:33:07 PM
That's a good link Jason - how do you find them  :ThumbsUp:

Enlarging the image it as you indicate it appears to me that the flywheel may have been plated? It certainly gives that appearance in the area closest the camera.

Chuck - what size are you intending to make your flywheel plus the bore and stroke? I note the one that Jason has linked has a 15.5 inch diameter wheel - if brass/bronze that's going to be one expensive part  :o

Very interesting design - a good start and looking forwards to how you tackle it further  :ThumbsUp:

Regards - Tug
Title: Re: Maudslay Marine Engine
Post by: cfellows on July 03, 2018, 10:42:51 PM
The bore and stroke are 0.56" x 1.5"  the cylinder is .875" OD and 2.25" long, exclusive of cylinder covers.  The overall height of the cylinder assembly with both end pieces is about 3.5".  The flywheel I'm planning to use is about 8.5" diameter, cast iron, from a Sanderson Beam Engine.  I know that seems big but in drawings, the proportions look nice, since the flywheel has thin spokes  and a pretty thin rim.  Here's a picture from my drawings in Visio.

(https://i.imgur.com/7VpFYSh.jpg)
Title: Re: Maudslay Marine Engine
Post by: cfellows on July 03, 2018, 10:46:28 PM
I followed Crueby's directions and I think the soldering job came out good.  Still letting it cool down. 

(https://i.imgur.com/Xxgh0Lz.jpg)

The flux I used is Stay Clean paste.  Seems to work really well.

(https://i.imgur.com/xLJg7I2.jpg)
Title: Re: Maudslay Marine Engine
Post by: zeeprogrammer on July 03, 2018, 10:47:32 PM
 :ThumbsUp:

It's a very interesting model.
Title: Re: Maudslay Marine Engine
Post by: Ramon Wilson on July 03, 2018, 10:56:34 PM
Thanks Chuck  :ThumbsUp:
Title: Re: Maudslay Marine Engine
Post by: cfellows on July 03, 2018, 11:30:59 PM
Well, not bad for a novice.  I'm pretty happy with the way the soldering turned out.  I can see the solder around all the edges, so coverage appears to be good.

(https://i.imgur.com/EqcactD.jpg)

(https://i.imgur.com/LASINyY.jpg)

(https://i.imgur.com/pouTZVJ.jpg)

(https://i.imgur.com/oGFnehV.jpg?2)

I may have to rethink the flywheel.  Might look different with the engine frame, but in this picture it looks a bit large...

(https://i.imgur.com/WcfB3mo.jpg)
Title: Re: Maudslay Marine Engine
Post by: crueby on July 03, 2018, 11:34:09 PM
Nice!
 :popcorn:
Title: Re: Maudslay Marine Engine
Post by: Jasonb on July 04, 2018, 07:27:40 AM
Chuck, your Sanderson flywheel is more likely 10" diameter the one I used on an engine was and that may be why it look bigger than the 8.5 on the drawing.

Ramon, the columns also show the same finish, maybe they plated the castings to make them look more like the solid brass, did think it may have been a lacquer to stop tarnishing that had flaked off but plating looks more likely
Title: Re: Maudslay Marine Engine
Post by: Ramon Wilson on July 04, 2018, 08:15:17 AM
Chuck,

That doesn't look to far out in relation to the original model to my eye - I'm sure once you have it on the frames it will look right.

Jason - the more you look the more you see  ;) it appears to be composite on some of the 'brass' parts. It was a beautifully made model for the time - there's a lot of work in those spokes if it's a casting for sure.

Watching with a high degree of interest as to how this turns out  ;)

Tug
Title: Re: Maudslay Marine Engine
Post by: rudydubya on July 04, 2018, 03:00:02 PM
Chuck, seems like I always learn something when I follow your projects.  Did you make those wire clips you used to hold the block to the cylinder when you soldered?  What are those?

Following along with interest.

Regards,
Rudy
Title: Re: Maudslay Marine Engine
Post by: kvom on July 04, 2018, 03:24:22 PM
That flywheel looks like what I'll need for the Muncaster.  Let me know where you got it and if there are any more available.

Martin's Models don't have any that size that are thin.
Title: Re: Maudslay Marine Engine
Post by: cfellows on July 04, 2018, 04:23:12 PM
You're right Jason, that flywheel is about 9.5" diameter.  Might be able to take a little off the diameter, but not much.  I have another cast iron flywheel that is about 8.5" diameter but is thick and heavy.  I'd have to do a lot of machining to get it thin looking like the Maudslay.  Unfortunately, milling one from solid out of brass would cost hundreds of dollars.  And assembling one from pieces, like Don did on is Benson engine, is probably beyond my capabilities.

Rudy, I made those clips out of some .040" music wire I had laying around.  Just used a couple of pliers to bend them into shape.

kvom, I acquired that flywheel in a set of castings for the Sanderson beam engine 15 or more years ago.  Turned out the cylinder casting was unusable so I never built the engine.
Title: Re: Maudslay Marine Engine
Post by: b.lindsey on July 04, 2018, 05:13:03 PM
Beautiful work Chuck. That cylinder looks great!!

Bill
Title: Re: Maudslay Marine Engine
Post by: cfellows on July 04, 2018, 09:10:39 PM
Thanks, Bill. 

I got the holes drilled and tapped for both cylinder end covers.   Don't have long enough screws for the bottom cover, but they are on order.

(https://i.imgur.com/MDTqAFq.jpg)

Next I'm going to tackle the engine frame since that is the most challenging part of the build. 
Title: Re: Maudslay Marine Engine
Post by: b.lindsey on July 04, 2018, 09:51:03 PM
Chuck, is this double acting or single?

Bill
Title: Re: Maudslay Marine Engine
Post by: cfellows on July 04, 2018, 10:54:44 PM
It will be double acting.  There will be a passage through the bottom cylinder cover that connects to the bottom of the cylinder.

Here is my first go at frame components.  These pieces will hold the main bearing blocks and the 1/4" rods that extend down to the base.

(https://i.imgur.com/Ay6qVt4.jpg?1)

These were cut on my CNC mill.  They are made of brass although it's kind of hard to tell in the picture.  I applied blue painters tape to the block of wood and to the back of the brass blank.  Then I applied liberal amounts of super glue to the painters tape to glue the brass blank to the wood base.  Works really well and it makes clean up a lot easier.  Gotta love CNC!
Title: Re: Maudslay Marine Engine
Post by: crueby on July 04, 2018, 11:20:18 PM
Neat trick with the tape and glue. Another one to try and remember!
Title: Re: Maudslay Marine Engine
Post by: cfellows on July 05, 2018, 01:57:46 AM
Neat trick with the tape and glue. Another one to try and remember!

Thanks.  I actually learned that from a youtube video, NYCCNC. 

I got the ports drilled in the valve body (bottom cylinder cover).

(https://i.imgur.com/dCURFiG.jpg)

(https://i.imgur.com/aCFGn7n.jpg)

Not particularly pretty, cut hopefully functional.  The photo makes the part look a lot rougher than it is in reality...
Title: Re: Maudslay Marine Engine
Post by: cfellows on July 05, 2018, 11:37:25 PM
The cove cuts in the outside edges of these frame pieces are the first edge detail I've ever added to a piece that was CNC cut. 

(https://i.imgur.com/m2amBm8.jpg)

I used the same DXF file, but specified an engraving operation instead of profile or pocket.  The cutter was a 1/8" ball-nose end mill.  I'm pleasantly surprised with the results.
Title: Re: Maudslay Marine Engine
Post by: Johnmcc69 on July 06, 2018, 01:44:14 AM
Really nice work Chuck. Gonna be a very nice model.

 John
Title: Re: Maudslay Marine Engine
Post by: cfellows on July 06, 2018, 04:20:54 AM
Really nice work Chuck. Gonna be a very nice model.

 John

Thanks, John.  But I have a ways to go before I can match your level of work.   :)
Title: Re: Maudslay Marine Engine
Post by: cfellows on July 06, 2018, 07:33:24 PM
I started work on the frame feet.

(https://i.imgur.com/bmILY4T.jpg?1)

It has to be freed from the 3/4" square stock material and the 1/8 cove cut on the other side.  A chamfer might have looked better, but already did the cove.  A 1/4" hole will be drilled in the angled top to receive a 4" long piece of 1/4" brass rod for the edge of the frame side.  Gotta say, this new found ability to cut edge details on cnc'd parts has opened up a lot of new possibilities for me.

Chuck
Title: Re: Maudslay Marine Engine
Post by: b.lindsey on July 06, 2018, 07:41:23 PM
The matching cove detail will look great with the top frame pieces Chuck. These are really looking great!!

Bill
Title: Re: Maudslay Marine Engine
Post by: cfellows on July 07, 2018, 03:00:37 AM
Thanks, Bill. 

I finished up the feet today, although I may want to add some more detail.  Haven't decided yet.  My 7/8" 2-56 SHCS came in the mail today so I was able to get the cylinder assembly all fastened together, for now.  Here's a rough preview of what I have done so far...

(https://i.imgur.com/l5CsGNt.jpg)

Gonna try to finish up the frame now, if I can.  I had a chemo treatment yesterday and may not feel like working in the shop although I should have a day or two before it starts kicking my butt!

Chuck
Title: Re: Maudslay Marine Engine
Post by: cfellows on July 07, 2018, 05:25:41 AM
I'm going to cut the inserts on the frames from 1/8" thick brass sheet using my CNC mill.  Here's the drawing from Visio.

(https://i.imgur.com/KYzgNVu.jpg)

Won't be as pretty as the assembled pieces, but a whole lot easier to make.  I've ordered a 1/16" radius corner rounding end mill to add a round profile on the edges.  Both these items were ordered on Ebay and will probably not arrive until later next week.  In the mean time, I'll start work on some of the other pieces.

Chuck
Title: Re: Maudslay Marine Engine
Post by: cfellows on July 07, 2018, 05:56:41 PM
Plan for today.  I've decided the flywheel is the next most pressing issue, so today I am going to see if I can whittle the flywheel casting on the left into the drawing on the right.

(https://i.imgur.com/qUPEGDT.jpg)

Most of the work will be done on the milling machine with a rotary table, then the final true-up can be done on the lathe.  Got a lot of metal to remove and it's going to be messy!

Chuck
Title: Re: Maudslay Marine Engine
Post by: b.lindsey on July 07, 2018, 07:30:46 PM
Should be interesting Chuck, but easier that cutting it from a solid piece I expect.

Bill
Title: Re: Maudslay Marine Engine
Post by: cfellows on July 07, 2018, 08:12:08 PM
Using the mill and rotary table to reduce the diameter turned out to be a non-starter.  Cranking a rotary table crank 90 times per revolution, against a sizable force I might add, was way too labor intensive, so I reverted to the lathe.  Unfortunately My lathe doesn't have a back gear and my 1 hp DC motor doesn't have a lot of torque at low RPM's, so, I had to make 37 passes at .005" per cut to take 3/8" off the OD.  And boy, is machining cast iron messy!  But I got it.

(https://i.imgur.com/raVipGo.jpg)

Got a bit of chatter facing off the side, but I wanted it trued up with the rim so I could mount it in my 8" 4-jaw chuck to finish reducing the axial thickness of the rim and the spokes.  I can see this is going to be a lot of work...
Title: Re: Maudslay Marine Engine
Post by: kvom on July 07, 2018, 09:24:31 PM
Nicely done.  And now you can sell me the Sanderson flywheel.   ;D :thinking:
Title: Re: Maudslay Marine Engine
Post by: cfellows on July 08, 2018, 12:21:57 AM
The flywheel is a lot of work, but it is coming together.  I thinned the spokes down to 0.3" front to back.  I also thinned down the rim to 1/2" in both thickness and width.

(https://i.imgur.com/bN02FTt.jpg)

(https://i.imgur.com/Qohv9FT.jpg)

I think I'm ready to CNC cut the spokes now.  My mill doesn't have the capacity to cut the whole wheel, so I have to cut one opening at a time using the rotary table to turn the flywheel 60 degrees between cuts.
Title: Re: Maudslay Marine Engine
Post by: zeeprogrammer on July 08, 2018, 12:24:28 AM
I've been following along. Pretty much, all I can say is "wow". That's quite a bit of work and it's going well!  :ThumbsUp:
Title: Re: Maudslay Marine Engine
Post by: b.lindsey on July 08, 2018, 01:47:30 AM
I am betting that chucking on the OD eliminated the chatter as well. Looking great Chuck.

Bill
Title: Re: Maudslay Marine Engine
Post by: crueby on July 08, 2018, 01:50:49 AM
Were the 5 small holes in the hub already there, or are they for a taper-lock hub setup?
 :popcorn: :popcorn: :popcorn:
Title: Re: Maudslay Marine Engine
Post by: cfellows on July 08, 2018, 04:20:55 AM
Thanks for the support, folks.  The holes in the hub were already there for a taper lock.  I'm going to have to make some serious repairs to the hub that hopefully won't show when done.  And yes, Bill, holding the flywheel by the rim on the lathe pretty much eliminated chatter although I did get a little bit of ringing.  However the finish turned out OK.

I finished with the CNC cuts tonight. 

(https://i.imgur.com/F3Zjchy.jpg)

Unfortunately, it wasn't problem free.  The spokes in the original casting weren't evenly spaced, so I got a bit of original rust inclusion on one of the spokes.  Also, the brakes on my rotary table slipped a bit so the spokes are a bit uneven.  I think the cuts were too aggressive also.  Tomorrow I'll tweak the CNC code to make the spokes thinner which should also remove some of the rust spot and make the spokes uniform width.  The brakes on the rotary table should hold just fine for a fine finishing cut. 
Title: Re: Maudslay Marine Engine
Post by: Jasonb on July 08, 2018, 07:11:00 AM
Looking a lot more suitable shape now. You might want to think about adding some packing under the rim and a hold down lamp or two which will stop any chance of the large dia work moving on the table or in the chuck.
Title: Re: Maudslay Marine Engine
Post by: b.lindsey on July 08, 2018, 01:06:49 PM
That's quite a transformation from the original Chuck. A lot of work I know but it is looking the part now!!!

Bill
Title: Re: Maudslay Marine Engine
Post by: cfellows on July 08, 2018, 06:19:09 PM
Thanks, Bill.  And, thanks for the suggestion Jason.  Unfortunately there was just no way I could figure out how to put any packing under the flywheel. 

I did thin out the spokes and the rim by making many light passes around the rotary table.  Took me about 2 hours, but I did get the spokes all to uniform thickness.  Then it was back to the lathe to face a it off the front and back of the spokes to get rid of machining errors.  Wasn't able to get the rust spot completely out, but I'll just live with it.

(https://i.imgur.com/Zoj5rOc.jpg)

I faced of the hub with all the holes in it and may try to fashion another, smaller taper lock to hide part of the remaining holes.  Not much meat there for pull-down screws, so I may just bore out the center to a uniform diameter and Loctite in a new center with a flange to partially cover the holes.  Gotta noodle on it a bit.
Title: Re: Maudslay Marine Engine
Post by: crueby on July 08, 2018, 08:03:36 PM
Wow, what a difference from the wheel you started with, very nice!
 :popcorn:
Title: Re: Maudslay Marine Engine
Post by: cfellows on July 08, 2018, 10:08:47 PM
Thanks, Crueby.  I think I probably reduced the weight by 2/3 or more although I didn't measure.  Just for grins, here's a before and after picture...

(https://i.imgur.com/hEwgFLF.jpg)

I managed to whittle out a new, smaller taper lock in the last hour or two. 

(https://i.imgur.com/WaUVeF0.jpg)

(https://i.imgur.com/kn3eNvc.jpg) 

I'll have to drop down to 6-32 pull-down screws but I think it will work fine.  I reduced the shaft size to  3/8".  It doesn't completely hide the previous holes in the hub, but it does make them a lot less conspicuous.

Chuck
Title: Re: Maudslay Marine Engine
Post by: Ramon Wilson on July 08, 2018, 11:49:15 PM
Nice result there Chuck, well in keeping with the original :ThumbsUp:

Still following and with a keen interest, particularly in due course in how you have the valve arrangement working.

Enjoying your updates - Tug
Title: Re: Maudslay Marine Engine
Post by: cfellows on July 09, 2018, 01:02:07 AM
Thanks, Tug.

Here's another picture showing a mock up of the parts. 

(https://i.imgur.com/ecne5Cj.jpg?2)

I think the outer rim of the flywheel is still a bit too heavy, but I'm not going to do any more trimming until the rest of the engine is nearing completion so I can get a better idea of the proportions.  I'd really like to keep the OD where it's at and thin out the rim from the inside, but more work on the milling machine and the rotary table is a bit daunting.  So many things to go wrong and ruin the whole part..

Chuck.
Title: Re: Maudslay Marine Engine
Post by: b.lindsey on July 09, 2018, 01:12:43 AM
It looks good to me Chuck. The extra mass will help it run slower perhaps which seem right for such an engine. Nice work on the flywheel!!

Bill
Title: Re: Maudslay Marine Engine
Post by: crueby on July 09, 2018, 01:39:27 AM
It looks good to me Chuck. The extra mass will help it run slower perhaps which seem right for such an engine. Nice work on the flywheel!!

Bill
If the flywheel is going to be painted, the right colors can help too.
Title: Re: Maudslay Marine Engine
Post by: cfellows on July 09, 2018, 03:33:07 AM
It looks good to me Chuck. The extra mass will help it run slower perhaps which seem right for such an engine. Nice work on the flywheel!!

Bill
If the flywheel is going to be painted, the right colors can help too.
f

Since the flywheel isn't brass, I have thought about painting it, at least the spokes and hub.  But I hadn't given any thought as to colors...
Title: Re: Maudslay Marine Engine
Post by: crueby on July 09, 2018, 04:03:04 AM
It looks good to me Chuck. The extra mass will help it run slower perhaps which seem right for such an engine. Nice work on the flywheel!!

Bill
If the flywheel is going to be painted, the right colors can help too.
f

Since the flywheel isn't brass, I have thought about painting it, at least the spokes and hub.  But I hadn't given any thought as to colors...
Another handy feature of 3d CAD sw, you can assign colors and play with combinations.
Title: Re: Maudslay Marine Engine
Post by: kvom on July 09, 2018, 04:49:55 PM
Prismatic has a brass powder coat that could work.  I'd be happy to do it once I'm happy with my own results.

https://www.prismaticpowders.com/shop/powder-coating-colors/PPS-4431/top-brass
Title: Re: Maudslay Marine Engine
Post by: cfellows on July 13, 2018, 04:03:50 AM
Had to take a few days off but was back in the shop today.  The 1/8" brass sheet for the frame sides came in today, but I'm not going to CNC cut those until I get a bit farther along.  I did, however, do a test cut using 1/8" thick hardboard (masonite for the old timers).  I painted it yellow so it would show up better.

(https://i.imgur.com/cGQ52j8.jpg)

And a preview of what it will look like assembled...

(https://i.imgur.com/zoADmse.jpg)

Those brass rods need to be cut off so the brass insert extends all the way to the base, inside the feet.

I also got the valve made today. 

(https://i.imgur.com/RiasSZ5.jpg)

Hopefully this will give folks a better idea of how it works.  The valve will rotate 45 degrees.  The vertical slot in the middle will alternately supply air to the top and the bottom of the cylinder.  The drilled holes on the radius connect through to the axial exhaust hole which extends out the back.  As Ive said before, I'm not a big fan of rotary valves.  They are really hard to seal and are not very efficient.  Hopefully it'll work without too much hissing and puffing of escaping air. 

A couple more pictures of the valve with the cylinder...

(https://i.imgur.com/F35THGd.jpg)

(https://i.imgur.com/FUdusj2.jpg)

(https://i.imgur.com/XFCMgiD.jpg)

Chuck
Title: Re: Maudslay Marine Engine
Post by: zeeprogrammer on July 13, 2018, 04:09:09 AM
That's looking good Chuck.

I've been following along. I think the flywheel came out great.  :ThumbsUp:
Title: Re: Maudslay Marine Engine
Post by: crueby on July 13, 2018, 04:24:59 AM
Very interesting valve setup, amazing how many combinations there are.


That circle work on the frame is going to really set it off.


 :popcorn:
Title: Re: Maudslay Marine Engine
Post by: Jasonb on July 13, 2018, 07:41:24 AM
Coming along well

Would it be worth leaving a few "tabs" on the edge of the side panels and milling matching slots into the round legs to help keep things together while soldering?
Title: Re: Maudslay Marine Engine
Post by: Ramon Wilson on July 13, 2018, 08:10:12 AM
Nice work Chuck  :ThumbsUp: and good to see the part I've been waiting for  ;)

I confess I've been trying to work out the sequence on the valve with not a great deal of success - however it all becomes instantly clear  ::)

One thing I notice as it stands in the image is that it appears that the exhaust is going to be open to atmosphere at the valve end making it difficult to plumb away from the engine as it will be moving through the arc of the cylinder movement.

I am wondering if a further circumferential groove could be put in the valve toward the end with a connecting hole though to the central exhaust. The far hole in the valve block would need to be blanked off (which could help a tad with the sealing problems you mention too)

This could then pick up a hole in the exhaust side of the valve block going through to the cylinder pivot hole. The cylinder pivot hole would have to be blanked off in the middle of course to separate the central hole into two but this would allow inlet and exhaust to be on the centre line?

Not sure if this thinking is sound but it's mentioned with best intention so hope you won't mind :) I hadn't intended to make any further engines but yours has caught my imagination - I have found a couple of pieces of brass that if soldered together will get me a flywheel rim  :D

Looking forwards to more of your progress

Regards - Tug



Title: Re: Maudslay Marine Engine
Post by: cfellows on July 13, 2018, 05:48:41 PM
Thanks, guys, for the support and positive comments.

Jason, although I've noodled around with ways to register the center piece with the rods while soldering, I hadn't thought of tabs, a worthy consideration.  I've also given some thought to how I might eliminate soldering altogether.  I'm not particularly against soldering, I'm just not very experienced with it and little skeptical of my ability to do a presentable job of it.

Tug, I haven't really given much thought to the exhaust other than providing a common exit point from the engine.   It would not be difficult to modify the valve so the exhaust was routed back into the back side of the cylinder pivot pin.  The design of the valve and porting is such that I could pretty easily make a new valve that would accomplish that.  But, the more surface features I mill into that the valve, the more it's like to leak air and work inefficiently.  In fact, I suspect I'll have to remake the rotary valve using lapping and other techniques to optimize the fit and minimize the leaks.

In the meantime, I'll be focusing on completing the frame pieces.
Title: Re: Maudslay Marine Engine
Post by: Jasonb on July 13, 2018, 07:05:21 PM
I suppose that if you want to keep away from soldering that it should be possible to drill and tap the ends of the round legs, drill and counterbore the feet and top piece for some socket cap screws and if the decorative plates had tabs they would almost hold themselves in place once the feet were stopped from spreading as they are fixed to the base.
Title: Re: Maudslay Marine Engine
Post by: cfellows on July 13, 2018, 07:55:31 PM
This morning I've been focused on getting accurate drawings of the engine components into Fusion 360.  I discovered a new feature (to me) where I can insert a DXF file directly into a component as a sketch without having to do an upload/import as separate operations.  Greatly speeds up and simplifies the process of using the DXF files I created.  Here's a drawing of what I have in Fusion 360 so far...

(https://i.imgur.com/uzZCQMR.jpg)

The process has been.

1.  Draw the part in Microsoft Visio.
2.  Save the part, from Visio, into a DXF file.
3.  Load the DXF file into CamBam.
     a.  I can use CamBam to join all the line segments which Visio often leaves separated.
     b.  I can also then use CamBam to export a cleaner DXF file with which Fusion 360 will import as a solid, 2D profile
     c.  I also use CamBam to generate the G-Code which Mach3 will use to CNC machine the part.
4.  Load the DXF file into Fusion 360 and expand the 2D drawing into a 3D part, assembling the individual components into an assembly.

I suppose it sounds complicated, but it's really pretty smooth at this point.
Title: Re: Maudslay Marine Engine
Post by: Tennessee Whiskey on July 13, 2018, 08:11:34 PM
Now that design looks wonderful Chuck. The insert could also be fastened with dowels and a shot of Locktite, either from the inside or out. If the fit was spot on and once it’s all polished, probably wouldn’t be seen. 

Cletus
Title: Re: Maudslay Marine Engine
Post by: cfellows on July 14, 2018, 01:35:31 AM
Now that design looks wonderful Chuck. The insert could also be fastened with dowels and a shot of Locktite, either from the inside or out. If the fit was spot on and once it’s all polished, probably wouldn’t be seen. 

Cletus2.5

Thanks, Cletus.  I added a couple of rounded disks at the top of each rod today.  I also drilled the parts and pinned everything together with 2.5mm steel rod, snug fit.

(https://i.imgur.com/BTrY5mb.jpg?1)

Title: Re: Maudslay Marine Engine
Post by: zeeprogrammer on July 14, 2018, 02:57:41 AM
Looks great Chuck. I thing it's a very interesting engine.  :ThumbsUp:
Title: Re: Maudslay Marine Engine
Post by: cfellows on July 14, 2018, 04:08:37 AM
Looks great Chuck. I thing it's a very interesting engine.  :ThumbsUp:

Thanks, Zee.  Nice to have you along for ride.  :)
Title: Re: Maudslay Marine Engine
Post by: cfellows on July 14, 2018, 04:53:39 AM
One final picture for the day.  I've been back in Fusion 360 most of the evening.  Here's a the result of my latest efforts there...

(https://i.imgur.com/9E5a4fS.jpg)

I've decided to put the cylinder between the uprights rather than opposite the flywheel, like the picture of the single cylinder version.
Title: Re: Maudslay Marine Engine
Post by: Ye-Ole Steam Dude on July 14, 2018, 12:42:49 PM
Hi Chuck,

Your latest drawing looks great, looking forward to the completed engine.

Have a great day,
Thomas
Title: Re: Maudslay Marine Engine
Post by: Ramon Wilson on July 14, 2018, 03:54:33 PM
Hi Chuck - it was just a thought based on what may be happening in the original build pic that you posted and the one in Jason's link. I confess I hadn't noticed the eccentric  ::) and was assuming the valve was rocked by the cylinder motion, the valve arm linked to the base in some way.

I like the way your bridge pieces and the side fret test have come out - no CNC here I'm afraid so it will have to be R/T work if I go ahead at some stage.

If you don't mind me asking, what height have you made the sides - from the base to the bearing pedestal base that is?

I admire your ability to use Fusion 360 - I'm still trying to get to grips with DraftSight 2D  ::)

Been able to make a bit of swarf myself today - have a good weekend yourself

Tug
Title: Re: Maudslay Marine Engine
Post by: cfellows on July 14, 2018, 04:46:50 PM
Thanks Thomas, Tug.

Here's a 2D drawing showing some dimensions, which are still a bit fluid and subject to small changes.

(https://i.imgur.com/wzVBPDv.jpg)

Unfortunately, stretching and rearranging the drawing to please my eye has left some of the dimensions a bit odd and will likely be rounded up or down a bit.  The cylinder bore is 9/16" (0.5625) and the OD of the cylinder is 7/8".  The length of the cylinder, exclusive of the top and bottom caps is 2.25".  These parts are done and the dimensions won't change.  The sides of the frame insert are 15 degrees off vertical as are the round rods forming the frame sides.

I'll make more detailed drawings available as things get closer to completion. 
Title: Re: Maudslay Marine Engine
Post by: Ramon Wilson on July 14, 2018, 06:09:51 PM
That's good of you Chuck - thanks indeed   :ThumbsUp:

Tug
Title: Re: Maudslay Marine Engine
Post by: cfellows on July 14, 2018, 07:34:54 PM
One more Fusion 360 image before I head out to the shop...

(https://i.imgur.com/dw4xSie.png)

Here I've I've added the cylinder assembly and a flywheel.  Note that this flywheel is one that I had drawn for another project, is only 7" diameter, and is much thicker than what I ultimately plan to use.

Chuck
Title: Re: Maudslay Marine Engine
Post by: Jasonb on July 14, 2018, 07:50:50 PM
Looks good Chuck but you really need to start playing with the "render" option and get that polished brass look ;)

F360 also allows the files to be shared and provides a link which I have used a couple of times so anyone with F360 can open up the file and play with it.
Title: Re: Maudslay Marine Engine
Post by: cfellows on July 14, 2018, 08:40:16 PM
Never tried this before, but here is the link it gave me...

https://a360.co/2zLiUWK (https://a360.co/2zLiUWK)

Somebody let me know whether it works or not.

Thanks... Chuck
Title: Re: Maudslay Marine Engine
Post by: Jasonb on July 14, 2018, 08:53:42 PM
That is just a PNG image file you should be able to get the actual part with a link like the one below to a spiral I drew the other day, you will get a message come up when you download and a request for your e-mail (one you use with f360) for a link to download

You need to have saved your drawing then goto share and select "public link" Then tick "share with anyone" and the link wil come up for you to copy.

https://a360.co/2JdvFc3

EDIT, look slike your EDIT change sto teh right type of file, just downloading now.
Title: Re: Maudslay Marine Engine
Post by: Jasonb on July 14, 2018, 09:04:24 PM
Something not quite right as I can't open it, file ends in .f3z rather than .f3d
Title: Re: Maudslay Marine Engine
Post by: Jasonb on July 14, 2018, 09:15:13 PM
Got it now by downloading as a STEp file, polishes up quite well
Title: Re: Maudslay Marine Engine
Post by: cfellows on July 15, 2018, 12:04:32 AM
That sets a pretty high bar for the polish on the actual parts...  :(

I got the top part soldered on to the frame bridges today.  Turned out to be easier than I thought it would be...

(https://i.imgur.com/NqAyuLl.jpg)


The top part is 3/16" thick by 1.625" x .375".
Title: Re: Maudslay Marine Engine
Post by: Johnmcc69 on July 15, 2018, 01:29:18 AM
 :ThumbsUp:
Looks real good Chuck. Keep at it.

 John
Title: Re: Maudslay Marine Engine
Post by: kvom on July 15, 2018, 03:36:07 PM
That's looking really nice.   :ThumbsUp:
Title: Re: Maudslay Marine Engine
Post by: cfellows on July 16, 2018, 05:47:13 AM
Thanks again, folks, for the support.  Today, I didn't get a lot of shop work done, mostly focused on the drawings and how this thing is going to start coming together.  I decided that a simple hole through the bottom cylinder cover wasn't a particularly elegant pivot feature, so I bored it out to 3/8" then turned a sleeve with a flange on the air feed side and a 5/16 bore through the center.  I then soldered this sleeve into the cylinder cover.  I'm really starting to enjoy this soldering process...

(https://i.imgur.com/BitPp6H.jpg)

(https://i.imgur.com/UM13NWU.jpg)

This will provide more suitable wearing faces against the bearing blocks on either side.  Tomorrow, I plan to complete the two bearing blocks in which the cylinder will pivot.
Title: Re: Maudslay Marine Engine
Post by: Art K on July 16, 2018, 05:57:22 PM
Chuck,
I wanted to let you know that I am following along. We've been on vacation for the last two weekends, and your Maudslay engine got away from me in the mean time. I am enjoying your process of doing each part, especially the flywheel and cylinder. I must admit never having built anything steam related, but only IC. I must ask how does the eccentric for the valve work when moving the cylinder inboard? Great work!
Art
Title: Re: Maudslay Marine Engine
Post by: J.L. on July 16, 2018, 06:27:49 PM
Hi Chuck,

This is fascinating!
Skillfull work.
John
Title: Re: Maudslay Marine Engine
Post by: gbritnell on July 16, 2018, 09:45:16 PM
Great work as usual Chuck! This engine is really going to be unique.
gbritnell
Title: Re: Maudslay Marine Engine
Post by: cfellows on July 16, 2018, 10:32:02 PM
Thanks Art, John, George.

Art, the eccentric and valve rod will have to be moved inside the frame as well.  However, there is a reasonable possibility that I may be able to dispense with the eccentric.  The cylinder swing may be enough to rotate the valve the required amount.

I decided to start work on the crankshaft since it's dimensions will be crucial to some of the other dimensions in the engine.  The journals on this crank will be larger than I would prefer, but I think the size of the flywheel dictates beefy crankshaft journal diameters.

Here is the piece of steel I'm using.  It's about 3.7" x 1.3" x 1/2" hot rolled steel.  The saw slits are to relieve stresses in the steel before I start marking out the centers for turning the journals.

(https://i.imgur.com/qGaFNK5.jpg?1)

Here you can see the drilled centers for the main and connecting rod journals.  This crankshaft will be turned between centers on my lathe.

(https://i.imgur.com/b7CZbD1.jpg)

The crankshaft is probably the most tedious and stressful part to make on the engine, but also the most satisfying if it turns out straight and true...

Title: Re: Maudslay Marine Engine
Post by: cfellows on July 17, 2018, 01:39:06 AM
One more picture for the day.  I got the connecting rod journal turned to size.

(https://i.imgur.com/cfMsV2O.jpg?2)
Title: Re: Maudslay Marine Engine
Post by: crueby on July 17, 2018, 01:45:35 AM
That was quick!
Doing one piece crankshafts always makes me nervous, wind up making built up ones.
 :popcorn: :popcorn: :popcorn:
Title: Re: Maudslay Marine Engine
Post by: cfellows on July 17, 2018, 01:59:39 AM
That was quick!
Doing one piece crankshafts always makes me nervous, wind up making built up ones.
 :popcorn: :popcorn: :popcorn:

I used a a couple of 1" x 3/16" HSS cutoff blades to do this.  First one was ground at an angle and the finishing blade was ground at 90 degrees.
Title: Re: Maudslay Marine Engine
Post by: zeeprogrammer on July 17, 2018, 02:19:00 AM
The saw slits are to relieve stresses in the steel before I start marking out the centers for turning the journals.

Stresses in metal. Yet another area of little knowledge.
It's not that I don't understand the causes of stress in metal...it's the experience of knowing what metals are subject to it and what can be done about it.
Recalling that it's not just physical changes but that time often plays a role.

Always amazes me.

I'm glad you pointed out the saw slits and why.
Title: Re: Maudslay Marine Engine
Post by: cfellows on July 17, 2018, 02:58:12 AM
I'm certainly no expert on stresses in metal and I generally don't give it much thought.  But because of the long, narrow shape of a crankshaft and how difficult it is to get one to run true, I always make those kind of slits when making a crankshaft.  I have read that cold rolled or cold finished steel is more prone to stresses than hot rolled and generally use hot rolled for crankshafts.
Title: Re: Maudslay Marine Engine
Post by: cfellows on July 18, 2018, 12:37:03 AM
I resumed work on the crankshaft this afternoon...

(https://i.imgur.com/mlSMuHI.jpg?1)

But, alas, I made a mistake.  I misread my dial caliper thinking it was on .490 when it really read .390, so I overshot the desired dimension of .375" hitting .350" before I realized my error.   :facepalm2:  I tried taking it down to 5/16" but that's just too thin for my big flywheel.  So, I spent the rest of the day sulking in my recliner.  But, this evening, I'm starting over.  Seems like I always make a couple of practice crankshafts before I wind up with one I like.  I keep reminding myself, the joy is in the journey.   :)

Chuck
Title: Re: Maudslay Marine Engine
Post by: b.lindsey on July 18, 2018, 12:43:21 AM
Well it still looks terrific Chuck. At least you know the method works. Bummer on the reading error...we've all done it though. Maybe it can be salvaged for use in another engine.

Bill
Title: Re: Maudslay Marine Engine
Post by: crueby on July 18, 2018, 12:50:21 AM
Could it be sleeved to fatten it back up?
Title: Re: Maudslay Marine Engine
Post by: steamer on July 18, 2018, 01:13:14 AM
Hey Chuck!    Finish that crank off, you never know what engine is dying to assemble itself around a spare crankshaft!!!


Build it and it will come!!!!

Dave
Title: Re: Maudslay Marine Engine
Post by: Johnmcc69 on July 18, 2018, 02:29:34 AM
I'm with Dave. Finish it off.  :)
 Just build your next engine around that crankshaft.
Not "scrap" or a "$@&\!! Up", you were just already thinking about your next engine...

 Keep the parts/pix/posts coming. Great work Chuck!
 :ThumbsUp:

 John
Title: Re: Maudslay Marine Engine
Post by: zeeprogrammer on July 18, 2018, 03:18:43 AM
I keep reminding myself, the joy is in the journey.   :)

Not to worry. He just hit a slight bump in the road.

And I agree...the joy is in the journey.
(Except when it comes to flying.  ;D )
Title: Re: Maudslay Marine Engine
Post by: cfellows on July 18, 2018, 04:03:02 AM
Thanks for the all the support, folks. 

This crankshaft build is becoming comical.  I'm ashamed to admit I'm on my 4th blank.  I just keep making stupid mistakes.  Luckily the last two happened right off the git-go.  So, the 4th blank is cut to size and I've cut the slits to relieve the stress.  I'll let it "age" overnight and get back to work on it tomorrow.  I just need to slow down and refer to the drawing a little more often.  If practice makes perfect, I must be getting close!

Chuck
Title: Re: Maudslay Marine Engine
Post by: Jasonb on July 18, 2018, 07:30:05 AM
You do see some full size engines where the diameter was bumped up for the flywheel to fit or more likely the areas for bearings were beaten down with a drop hammer when the crank was forged. So having a sleeve to replicate the same feature is quite in keeping, on the plus side if desired you can also slot the sleeve with a milling cutter which will then form the slot for a keyway when it is assembled with Loctite. The benson springs to mind.

(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v156/jasonballamy/Engineering/PICT0341-1.jpg)

(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v156/jasonballamy/Engineering/IMAG0203.jpg)

(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v156/jasonballamy/Engineering/DSC04337.jpg)
Title: Re: Maudslay Marine Engine
Post by: steam guy willy on July 18, 2018, 12:16:39 PM
Hi Chuck, i have a useful tool in my brain... it is called procrastination !! I spend a lot of time just thinking about things and then eventually i get a brainwave and YEA proceed with 'gay abandon' !! and find things work out ok ..Thats why my models take so long !!
Title: Re: Maudslay Marine Engine
Post by: propforward on July 18, 2018, 02:39:28 PM
Chuck - sorry about the mishaps with the crankshaft, but thanks so much for posting the method, I want to attempt the same approach on my next engine build, as I don't think the crank casting will stay put when I work on it.

Your perseverance will yield stunning rewards I'm sure, because I can see that first crank finish was super.
Title: Re: Maudslay Marine Engine
Post by: Tennessee Whiskey on July 18, 2018, 07:41:10 PM
I say that practice makes perfect and all great projects have numerous “prototypes”  8). Just have a RoundRock doughnut and regroup  :cheers:

Cletus
Title: Re: Maudslay Marine Engine
Post by: cfellows on July 18, 2018, 08:51:53 PM
Thanks, folks, for the suggestions and support.  I'm happy to report that after 3 1/2 hours in the shop, I've made it through all the hard parts.  I decided to use my milling maching to drill the center holes in the ends...

(https://i.imgur.com/iFJU7LZ.jpg)

This is the cutoff tool I used to face the sides of the webs...

(https://i.imgur.com/Na47BnR.jpg?1)

The end of the cutoff tool is ground at a 10 degree angle, then mounted in the tool holder at a 5 degree angle, giving me 5 degrees clearance on the side and the end.  Here I'm getting ready to face off the inside of the right hand web.

(https://i.imgur.com/DCLY464.jpg?1)

Here I've finished facing the inside of the first web...

(https://i.imgur.com/qYH2BUZ.jpg?1)

Next I reversed the work piece end to end so I could face off the inside of the other web...

(https://i.imgur.com/w7CnYkH.jpg?1)

The final step in this setup is to finish the crankshaft journal.  I decided to make the journal 5/16" all the way across instead of leaving a large diameter on each side as spacers.  I'll incorporate the spacers into the connecting rod end.  I've also cut off the waste part.

(https://i.imgur.com/1yMUprm.jpg?1)

So here, I've completed the main journal on one side and am getting ready for the final cuts on the other journal.  I'm leaving a larger diameter on each side of the webs to act as spacers against the main bearings.  I made little jackscrew assembly out of a nut and setscrew to keep the centers from squeezing in the webs.

(https://i.imgur.com/jXNb3vq.jpg?1)

And here's where I'm at for the moment.  All the turning is done (I think)...

(https://i.imgur.com/vY7rJ8S.jpg?1)

I am going to do some more shaping on the webs but this will all be done in the mill...

Chuck
Title: Re: Maudslay Marine Engine
Post by: zeeprogrammer on July 18, 2018, 09:00:26 PM
 :ThumbsUp:

I decided to make the journal 5/16" all the way across instead of leaving a large diameter on each side as spacers.  I'll incorporate the spacers into the connecting rod end.

Why?
Title: Re: Maudslay Marine Engine
Post by: Tennessee Whiskey on July 18, 2018, 09:08:37 PM
Sweet Chuck. It’s definitely doughnut time now  :ThumbsUp:

Cletus
Title: Re: Maudslay Marine Engine
Post by: crueby on July 18, 2018, 09:20:43 PM
Nice!!
 :whoohoo:
Title: Re: Maudslay Marine Engine
Post by: 10KPete on July 18, 2018, 09:48:10 PM
Going along very well now!

I like to make the 'spacers' as part of the rod bearings, like a bit of a flange on each end of the bushing halves. Much easier than doing the crank and replaceable...

Pete
Title: Re: Maudslay Marine Engine
Post by: b.lindsey on July 18, 2018, 09:55:41 PM
Fourth time was the charm Chuck. That looks fantastic!!!

Bill
Title: Re: Maudslay Marine Engine
Post by: cfellows on July 18, 2018, 11:58:05 PM
:ThumbsUp:

I decided to make the journal 5/16" all the way across instead of leaving a large diameter on each side as spacers.  I'll incorporate the spacers into the connecting rod end.

Why?

I think it will look better and more interesting to have a wider connecting rod end and I can make the surface bearing against the sides a little larger.
Title: Re: Maudslay Marine Engine
Post by: cfellows on July 18, 2018, 11:59:56 PM
Going along very well now!

I like to make the 'spacers' as part of the rod bearings, like a bit of a flange on each end of the bushing halves. Much easier than doing the crank and replaceable...

Pete

Yeah, that's the look I'm going for, but I may not make individual rod bearings, just form it into the connecting rod end as if it had bearings... or I might try rod bearings.  Never did it before, so it would be a new experience...
Title: Re: Maudslay Marine Engine
Post by: cfellows on July 19, 2018, 12:02:32 AM
So, a few more hours in the shop and I have the connecting rod where I think it's finished.

(https://i.imgur.com/HvKgxHJ.jpg)

(https://i.imgur.com/g9xQcNE.jpg)

It's got a few tiny gouges and nicks I'd rather weren't there, but good enough is good enough...

Title: Re: Maudslay Marine Engine
Post by: Ye-Ole Steam Dude on July 19, 2018, 12:11:21 AM
Looks great Chuck. You can clean up the other crank and use it on another engine.

Have a great day,
Thomas
Title: Re: Maudslay Marine Engine
Post by: cfellows on July 19, 2018, 05:00:57 AM
Thanks, Thomas.

Here's a short video of the flywheel attached to the crankshaft and spinning in the lathe.  Pretty happy with how true it runs...

https://vimeo.com/280661464 (https://vimeo.com/280661464)

Title: Re: Maudslay Marine Engine
Post by: rudydubya on July 19, 2018, 07:35:19 AM
Chuck, that's impressive how true your flywheel and crankshaft runs.  Nice work.  And the finish on the crankshaft looks great.  I've never had a finish that nice off the lathe, but I keep trying...

Regards,
Rudy
Title: Re: Maudslay Marine Engine
Post by: steamer on July 19, 2018, 11:51:44 AM
Thanks, Thomas.

Here's a short video of the flywheel attached to the crankshaft and spinning in the lathe.  Pretty happy with how true it runs...

https://vimeo.com/280661464 (https://vimeo.com/280661464)


Nice Job Chuck!!!
Title: Re: Maudslay Marine Engine
Post by: b.lindsey on July 19, 2018, 01:41:46 PM
Doesn't get any better than that Chuck. You should be very happy with that!!!

Bill
Title: Re: Maudslay Marine Engine
Post by: Ramon Wilson on July 19, 2018, 01:47:09 PM
Nice result on that crank Chuck - I've always taken the easy route but admire those who dont  :ThumbsUp:

Still watching with interest  ;)

Tug
Title: Re: Maudslay Marine Engine
Post by: cfellows on July 20, 2018, 01:33:56 AM
Thanks Tug, Bill, Steamer.  I CNC cut the first frame insert from 1/8" thick brass sheet...

(https://i.imgur.com/VCQXPl2.jpg?1)

My  1/8" carbide end mill was a little dull so I had to dress up the frame with a file and sandpaper afterwards.  I'll use a fresh cutter on the next one.  Not soldered in yet.  I have to noodle some on whether to just depend on solder, add pins, screws, or what...
Title: Re: Maudslay Marine Engine
Post by: cfellows on July 22, 2018, 01:52:30 AM
Since I don't have any 1/4" rod but do have lots of 1/4" brass tubing, I decided to use the latter the frame sides.  I drilled a 3/16" hole in the top of each foot then soldered a stud in each hole.  The top part of each stud will fit into and be soldered inside the supporting tube.

(https://i.imgur.com/QmeN1Y8.jpg)

To solder the studs in place, I formed a ring of 1/16" diameter solder around the pin, applied flux, then positioned the pin in the hole on the foot.  Then I heated the foot with a propane torch until the solder melted and the stud settled down with the decorative flange flush with the top of the foot.

I'm going kind of slow on these parts since I have a lot of work in them so far and don't want to make a mistake.

Chuck
Title: Re: Maudslay Marine Engine
Post by: cfellows on July 22, 2018, 04:07:01 AM
A little more progress.  I got the frame tubes cut to size and the feet polished up some.  Here's a photo with the frame sitting on top of the insert. 

(https://i.imgur.com/rhqT4Gk.jpg?2)

Now I have to start thinking about how I'm going to solder the insert into place.  Also have to make 2 more tube assemblies for the other side.  As you can see, I have both of the inserts cut now.
Title: Re: Maudslay Marine Engine
Post by: cfellows on July 23, 2018, 10:53:38 PM
Got a bit of cleaning up to do but I finished soldering the two frames together, including the inserts. 

(https://i.imgur.com/T4BWnfx.jpg)

With a few obvious exceptions, I managed to keep most of the solder hidden in the joints.  The Dremel with some wire brushes should help clean it up.

Chuck
Title: Re: Maudslay Marine Engine
Post by: Ye-Ole Steam Dude on July 23, 2018, 11:04:00 PM
Hey Chuck,

They look great, soldering was the way to go.

Have a great day,
Thomas
Title: Re: Maudslay Marine Engine
Post by: crueby on July 23, 2018, 11:05:07 PM
Very nice, love the Victorian look!
Title: Re: Maudslay Marine Engine
Post by: zeeprogrammer on July 23, 2018, 11:08:05 PM
What Chris said.

Gorgeous.  :ThumbsUp:
Title: Re: Maudslay Marine Engine
Post by: 10KPete on July 23, 2018, 11:33:57 PM
Beautiful!  And those rings at the top and bottom of the tubes really set the style. Great work.

Pete
Title: Re: Maudslay Marine Engine
Post by: Tennessee Whiskey on July 23, 2018, 11:51:26 PM
Quite elegant comes to my mind. Beautiful Chuck

Cletus
Title: Re: Maudslay Marine Engine
Post by: Brian Rupnow on July 24, 2018, 01:11:56 AM
Very elegant, Chuck.---Well done.---Brian
Title: Re: Maudslay Marine Engine
Post by: Dave Otto on July 24, 2018, 01:18:55 AM
Beautiful work Chuck!

Dave
Title: Re: Maudslay Marine Engine
Post by: Kim on July 24, 2018, 05:18:28 AM
That is a LOT of work you put into those frames, Chuck, but they sure look nice!  :ThumbsUp:
Kim
Title: Re: Maudslay Marine Engine
Post by: gbritnell on July 24, 2018, 12:27:17 PM
Great fabrication and such an elegant look. I can't wait to see this one finished. With that large flywheel it ought to tick over gracefully.
gbritnell
Title: Re: Maudslay Marine Engine
Post by: b.lindsey on July 24, 2018, 12:48:19 PM
Clever way to use the tubing rather than solid round brass. The final result is beautiful Chuck.

Bill
Title: Re: Maudslay Marine Engine
Post by: cfellows on July 25, 2018, 04:05:20 AM
Today I got the bearing blocks cut out.  The smaller ones are for the crankshaft and the larger ones are for cylinder pivot shaft.

(https://i.imgur.com/BaFaVtl.jpg?1)

The Cylinder pivot blocks will be split horizontally and held together with screws while the crankshaft blocks will remain whole.

Chuck
Title: Re: Maudslay Marine Engine
Post by: cfellows on July 26, 2018, 03:04:20 AM
Just about done with the frame sides.  Still have to bore out the crankshaft bearing blocks and do a bit more polishing.

(https://i.imgur.com/MQsKFPM.jpg?1)

Title: Re: Maudslay Marine Engine
Post by: sco on July 26, 2018, 06:21:55 AM
The originals were works of art, so are yours!

Great work Chuck,

Simon.
Title: Re: Maudslay Marine Engine
Post by: cfellows on July 27, 2018, 02:46:43 AM
Thanks, Simon.

I had to do some remedial work today.  One of the frames was about .030" taller than the other.   :(  So, I unsoldered the top pieces, shortened the tubes on either size, and re-soldered it.  Luckily it went back together without mishap and cleanup wasn't too bad.

(https://i.imgur.com/VMz53NK.jpg)

I made the 4 screws in the middle from 3/16" 12L14 Hex stock.  They are threaded 6-32 and will hold the caps on the bearing blocks.  I'm planning to go through all the top pieces to reinforce the solder joints.
Title: Re: Maudslay Marine Engine
Post by: cfellows on July 27, 2018, 10:48:53 PM
Had a pretty productive day today.   I finally got it to a stage where you can get a pretty good idea of what it's going to look like...

(https://i.imgur.com/QIgsg2b.jpg)

(https://i.imgur.com/HMSFKQ8.jpg)

(https://i.imgur.com/eONN7wv.jpg)

(https://i.imgur.com/8aOgIYM.jpg)

(https://i.imgur.com/IMrQlGl.jpg)

My confidence is growing that I'll actually finish this engine.   :DrinkPint:

Chuck
Title: Re: Maudslay Marine Engine
Post by: Ye-Ole Steam Dude on July 27, 2018, 10:59:22 PM
WOW  :whoohoo:
Title: Re: Maudslay Marine Engine
Post by: Ramon Wilson on July 27, 2018, 11:09:56 PM
That really is going to be one elegant looking engine once done Chuck :ThumbsUp: :ThumbsUp: - you have my undivided attention for sure :)

Lovely work so far, keep it coming

Regards - Tug
Title: Re: Maudslay Marine Engine
Post by: crueby on July 28, 2018, 12:52:23 AM
Just wonderful proportions, very well done!
 :popcorn: :popcorn: :popcorn:
Title: Re: Maudslay Marine Engine
Post by: 10KPete on July 28, 2018, 01:22:59 AM
That is one impressive engine, Chuck! Beautiful.  :praise2:

Pete
Title: Re: Maudslay Marine Engine
Post by: zeeprogrammer on July 28, 2018, 01:40:03 AM
Awesome Chuck. That's a real beauty.  :ThumbsUp:
Title: Re: Maudslay Marine Engine
Post by: b.lindsey on July 28, 2018, 01:48:48 AM
I can only repeat what others have said. Just a lovely engine in all respects.

Bill
Title: Re: Maudslay Marine Engine
Post by: Steamer5 on July 28, 2018, 06:59:05 AM
Hi Chuck,
 Very very nice!

Cheers Kerrin
Title: Re: Maudslay Marine Engine
Post by: steamer on July 28, 2018, 11:19:47 AM
Nicely done Chuck!    Keep it coming!   :ThumbsUp: :ThumbsUp: :ThumbsUp:
Title: Re: Maudslay Marine Engine
Post by: gbritnell on July 28, 2018, 11:50:37 AM
As I stated in an earlier post that is a very elegant looking engine Chuck.
gbritnell
Title: Re: Maudslay Marine Engine
Post by: Brian Rupnow on July 28, 2018, 01:13:04 PM
Chuck--what a beautiful piece of work. ---Brian
Title: Re: Maudslay Marine Engine
Post by: cfellows on July 29, 2018, 12:03:38 AM
Thanks guys, for the kind words and support.  Can't believe it's only been 4 weeks since I started this thread.

I've already mentioned the carbide inserts and tool holders I ordered from Banggood.  I'm not trying to sell any Banggood tools, but I've been really impressed with this set and it only cost me around $35 including shipping for 6 tool holders and inserts.  Seems to me to be a great value for the money.  I used the thread cutting tool holder and insert last night for the first time.  I cut 10-32 threads in a 3/16" drill rod and have to say it was the easiest single point threading I've ever cut.  No deflection or digging in.  Everything went perfectly.

(https://i.imgur.com/5d2iO9A.jpg?1)

(https://i.imgur.com/c1N1wry.jpg?1)

I might add that all the inserts are standard carbide insert part numbers that are widely available.

So I spent about 5 hours today getting this far with the connecting rod end.  Didn't get a lot of pictures since I was so focused on not making a mistake.  The first step was to cut out the blank as one piece using my CNC mill/drill.  Then I drilled and tapped the 1-72 holes for the screws that hold the rod cap on.  Next I drilled a 3/16" hold but in retrospect, I'm not sure why... :thinking:  Next I used a slitting saw to separate the rod cap from the main body.  This picture reflects that activity.

(https://i.imgur.com/dWOeG9o.jpg?1)

Next I bored the hole out to 5/16" then clamped it onto the end of a 5/16" steel rod.  Mounting the rod in the lathe, I shaped each side to provide some relief for the sides against the crankshaft...

(https://i.imgur.com/gRo9NPu.jpg?1)

Still got more shaping to do, but getting tired and decided to give it a rest before I start making mistakes.

Chuck


Title: Re: Maudslay Marine Engine
Post by: Johnmcc69 on July 29, 2018, 01:28:15 AM
Chuck, this is coming together beautifully.

 If you would like, I would be more than willing to create/assist you with a drawing package of this for you. It's a beautiful engine & one I think a few members here would like to build.

 John
Title: Re: Maudslay Marine Engine
Post by: zeeprogrammer on July 29, 2018, 01:59:41 AM
I've already mentioned the carbide inserts and tool holders I ordered from Banggood.  I'm not trying to sell any Banggood tools, but I've been really impressed with this set and it only cost me around $35 including shipping for 6 tool holders and inserts.  Seems to me to be a great value for the money.

I always appreciate reviews. It helps!  :ThumbsUp:
Title: Re: Maudslay Marine Engine
Post by: cfellows on July 29, 2018, 03:41:28 AM
Chuck, this is coming together beautifully.

 If you would like, I would be more than willing to create/assist you with a drawing package of this for you. It's a beautiful engine & one I think a few members here would like to build.

 John

Thanks for the offer, John.  I'll start sorting out what I have and forward it to you.  Probably be a while since I'm still designing as I go.  Can you work with DXF files as well?

Chuck
Title: Re: Maudslay Marine Engine
Post by: Johnmcc69 on July 29, 2018, 02:03:38 PM
Chuck, this is coming together beautifully.

 If you would like, I would be more than willing to create/assist you with a drawing package of this for you. It's a beautiful engine & one I think a few members here would like to build.

 John

Thanks for the offer, John.  I'll start sorting out what I have and forward it to you.  Probably be a while since I'm still designing as I go.  Can you work with DXF files as well?

Chuck

 Sounds good to me Chuck. No hurry.

 Yes, DXF files are no problem.

 John
Title: Re: Maudslay Marine Engine
Post by: cfellows on July 29, 2018, 07:33:12 PM
I finished up the piston and fitted it to the piston rod.

(https://i.imgur.com/LhPfFH0.jpg)

It's a nice sliding fit in the cylinder.   I first turned the piston a bit oversize, fitted the rod, then held the rod in a collet while I turned the piston down to final size.  The run-out on my collet was well under .001" so the concentricity is good.

So far, all the parts fit together with close tolerance.  This going to make alignment of all the parts when I assemble it especially crucial to prevent binding.

Chuck
Title: Re: Maudslay Marine Engine
Post by: Tennessee Whiskey on July 29, 2018, 11:56:07 PM
More nice looking parts Chuck. Thanks for the review. I’m starting to hear more good than bad in regards to Banggood lately.

Cletus
Title: Re: Maudslay Marine Engine
Post by: cfellows on July 30, 2018, 12:40:52 AM
Thanks, Cletus.  I think Banggood is trying to win American approval. 

I had a long but productive day in the shop today.  In addition to the piston, I also got the brass base made and the frame sides attached.  Took a lot of fixuring to get it and keep it square, but it all worked out in the end.  Everything so far is in good alignment and square.  The frames are attached to base with #6-32 SHCS's recessed in from the bottom.

(https://i.imgur.com/ZByvlrq.jpg)

(https://i.imgur.com/Y5qxvos.jpg)

(https://i.imgur.com/ultWV08.jpg)

(https://i.imgur.com/Kb841EM.jpg)

So far I'm happy with the way it's going.  Tomorrow I hope to get the cylinder attached to the base and the piston rod shortened, threaded, and attached to the connecting rod end.  Then I'll be able to spin the engine and see how everything moves. 

Chuck
Title: Re: Maudslay Marine Engine
Post by: cfellows on July 31, 2018, 03:28:14 AM
We've got motion.  I got the mechanical parts all assembled today and am happy to report that the engine turns over very nicely.  The parts are all good fit, no sloppiness and no binding, so I'm pleased.  Probably one of the best fitting jobs I've ever done!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DNFE-3Qvkkc

Now I can get started on the valving and the remaining steam (air) connections
Title: Re: Maudslay Marine Engine
Post by: rudydubya on July 31, 2018, 06:52:43 AM
Most excellent, Chuck.  Very elegant.  Well done.

Regards,
Rudy
Title: Re: Maudslay Marine Engine
Post by: Ramon Wilson on July 31, 2018, 11:15:25 AM
Looking really good Chuck and in such a short time too :ThumbsUp: 

Did you have a specific reason for putting the cylinder inside the frames as opposed to the original pic or just one of personal choice?

Really looking forwards to seeing this turning over on air

Regards - Tug
Title: Re: Maudslay Marine Engine
Post by: kvom on July 31, 2018, 12:23:00 PM
Won't be long now.   :ThumbsUp:
Title: Re: Maudslay Marine Engine
Post by: b.lindsey on July 31, 2018, 09:27:26 PM
Fantastic Chuck. Such an elegant design too.... love it!!!

Bill
Title: Re: Maudslay Marine Engine
Post by: Tennessee Whiskey on July 31, 2018, 11:17:43 PM
There only word I can think of is “elegant “   I know I’ve used it before, but, I really mean it

Whiskey
Title: Re: Maudslay Marine Engine
Post by: steamer on August 01, 2018, 12:53:39 AM
Another great build shaping up Chuck!.....Can't wait for the first start!

Dave
Title: Re: Maudslay Marine Engine
Post by: cfellows on August 04, 2018, 03:49:40 AM
Thank you, Gents.

Here's a picture of the valve actuating parts.  The larger piece is an arm that will attached to the end of the rotary valve and the smaller piece is a link which will connect the arm to an anchor screwed to the base.  I've determined that the cylinder motion provides enough rotation on the rotary valve that I won't require an eccentric.

(https://i.imgur.com/UskLvg5.jpg?1)

These little parts are made a lot easier with CNC.  I designed them in Visio and cut them out of a larger, captive piece of brass.  Then they were separated from the captive piece by milling off the back side.  Piece of cake.  I've also cut the anchor piece but need to do a bit more shaping on it.  Next I'm going to remake the rotary valve so the exhaust  will be routed back into the cylinder pivot rod where it could be plumbed away from the engine, as suggested by Tug.
Title: Re: Maudslay Marine Engine
Post by: cfellows on August 04, 2018, 11:15:55 PM
I've pretty much finished up the valve linkage parts.  Spent this afternoon working on a new rotary valve.  I'm getting ready for my 4th attempt.  Can't believe the silly mistakes I'm making...
Title: Re: Maudslay Marine Engine
Post by: b.lindsey on August 04, 2018, 11:20:07 PM
Third fourth time is the charm as they say Chuck.

Bill
Title: Re: Maudslay Marine Engine
Post by: cfellows on August 05, 2018, 01:04:06 AM
Third fourth time is the charm as they say Chuck.

Bill

Yeah, it would seem so.  Some daye it just takes me a few tries to get my Sh*t together. 

Finally got the overall shape and size of the valve cut.  The material is stainless steel, probably 304 as tough as it is to machine. 

(https://i.imgur.com/Vuzy4PK.jpg)

(https://i.imgur.com/XTvMHWF.jpg)

I haven't parted the valve off from the parent rod yet as I still have some machining to do in the mill.  Here's the parts more or less assembled...

(https://i.imgur.com/7IsomPz.jpg)

(https://i.imgur.com/3J2AyM0.jpg)

Gonna stop for the day.  Tomorrow I'll finish milling the inlet and exhaust passages in the valve and part it off.  Then I'll start thinking about drilling the inlet and exhaust passages that connect the valve chamber to the pivot rod in the lower cylinder block.  These holes are blind and will have to be drilled from the outside, then plugged.  The alternative might be to mill slots in from the bottom, then close them off with a soldered-in recessed plate....
Title: Re: Maudslay Marine Engine
Post by: zeeprogrammer on August 05, 2018, 01:52:06 AM
Some daye it just takes me a few tries to get my Sh*t together. 

Regardless...perseverance and all that. It's looking great!  :ThumbsUp:
Title: Re: Maudslay Marine Engine
Post by: b.lindsey on August 05, 2018, 02:09:10 AM
It sure is!!  And a rather unique mechanism as well. Very nice Chuck.

Bill
Title: Re: Maudslay Marine Engine
Post by: cfellows on August 05, 2018, 10:00:38 PM
This morning I drilled the inlet and exhaust passages in the lower cylinder block.

(https://i.imgur.com/3XHBmn8.jpg?1)

The right one is the inlet and the left is the exhaust.  Both holes are drilled all the way into the cylinder pivot hole.  The cylinder pivot rod will have inlet and exhaust ports that line up with the holes in the cylinder block.

I've also milled the connecting slots in the rotary valve and parted it off from the parent material.

(https://i.imgur.com/9cOfxXI.jpg?1)

(https://i.imgur.com/SyaqCDn.jpg?1)

I think now I'm ready to reassemble the engine and check out the valve movement and timing.  I also need to move forward with drilling and porting the cylinder pivot rod.

Title: Re: Maudslay Marine Engine
Post by: Ye-Ole Steam Dude on August 05, 2018, 10:03:25 PM
Coming together very nicely Chuck.

Have a great day,
Thomas
Title: Re: Maudslay Marine Engine
Post by: crueby on August 05, 2018, 10:24:27 PM
Quite a neat valve, looking great!


 :popcorn:
Title: Re: Maudslay Marine Engine
Post by: Ramon Wilson on August 05, 2018, 10:41:21 PM
All looking very promising Chuck  :ThumbsUp:

I like the way you have been able to do away with the eccentric and I hope you get all that porting in without those initial fears of it leaking.

Keep it coming - it's going to be a real nice display piece for sure :)

Regards - Tug
Title: Re: Maudslay Marine Engine
Post by: cfellows on August 07, 2018, 03:07:51 AM
I'm stoked!   I'll have this engine running in a couple of days, maybe tomorrow!  I finished all the valving and linkages.  The only thing left is the plumbing from the valve chest to the top end of the cylinder.  And... wait for it... I tested the engine and it runs, quite nicely, on just the bottom half of the cylinder.  With the plumbing installed for the top end it should run very well in double acting mode.
Title: Re: Maudslay Marine Engine
Post by: crueby on August 07, 2018, 03:17:44 AM
Saweet!  Exciting stuff, looking forward to seeing it go!   :popcorn:
Title: Re: Maudslay Marine Engine
Post by: Art K on August 07, 2018, 03:36:30 AM
Chuck,
That's great news. Look forward to the followup installments.
Art
Title: Re: Maudslay Marine Engine
Post by: zeeprogrammer on August 07, 2018, 03:37:10 AM
Same here.  :ThumbsUp:
Title: Re: Maudslay Marine Engine
Post by: 10KPete on August 07, 2018, 03:48:12 AM
I can hardly wait to see it running! I'm still trying to figure out that valve.....

Pete
Title: Re: Maudslay Marine Engine
Post by: Brian Rupnow on August 07, 2018, 01:43:45 PM
Me too Pete. I'm really curious about that valve and how it works.--Brian
Title: Re: Maudslay Marine Engine
Post by: Ramon Wilson on August 07, 2018, 04:21:06 PM
Great news Chuck - sounds like you didn't have the valve problems you thought you might  :ThumbsUp:

Really looking forwards to seeing this run, so close now  :)

Tug
Title: Re: Maudslay Marine Engine
Post by: b.lindsey on August 07, 2018, 11:10:58 PM
It's always a great feeling when they tick over like you planned it. Looking forward to the finished engine and video.

Bill
Title: Re: Maudslay Marine Engine
Post by: Johnmcc69 on August 08, 2018, 01:24:13 AM
Looking forward to the finished product Chuck!
 No doubt she'll purr like a kitten. Will be another fantastic engine to your collection.

 John
Title: Re: Maudslay Marine Engine
Post by: cfellows on August 08, 2018, 11:08:43 PM
Here it is, complete with new, corian base...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4OqopaFh2GI

Still got a bit of odds n ends to take care of.  I'll be taking the engine to show off at our Austin Metalworking club meeting this evening.

Chuck
Title: Re: Maudslay Marine Engine
Post by: Ye-Ole Steam Dude on August 09, 2018, 12:08:10 AM
Chuck it is gorgeous and a beautiful runner.

Have a great day,
Thomas
Title: Re: Maudslay Marine Engine
Post by: steam guy willy on August 09, 2018, 12:09:15 AM
Lovely engine and runs a treat ...a bit of info about the engine...the cylinders were cast with bands around them in the early days , but they found that in the places where the bands were there was cavitation and air bubbles in the cylinder that prevented a good finish after boring. this is why they quickly abandoned this type of cylinder casting. keep up the good work
 Willy
Title: Re: Maudslay Marine Engine
Post by: Dave Otto on August 09, 2018, 12:54:25 AM
Beautiful work Chuck!
I really like the speed of the engine and the sound at the end of the video.

Dave
Title: Re: Maudslay Marine Engine
Post by: zeeprogrammer on August 09, 2018, 01:28:53 AM
Beautiful Chuck.
Very well done. A showpiece.  :ThumbsUp: :ThumbsUp:
Title: Re: Maudslay Marine Engine
Post by: sco on August 09, 2018, 02:06:35 AM
Chuck,

What a sweet runner that is - super job!  Really enjoyed following your build,

Simon.
Title: Re: Maudslay Marine Engine
Post by: Larry on August 09, 2018, 03:49:00 AM
Love this design. What a great project !
Title: Re: Maudslay Marine Engine
Post by: Kim on August 09, 2018, 06:33:09 AM
That's a beautiful engine, Chuck!  I love how slow you can make it run too.

I'd be interested in more detail on the rotary valve if you ever feel motivated to write about it more  :)

Kim
Title: Re: Maudslay Marine Engine
Post by: rudydubya on August 09, 2018, 07:04:50 AM
Beautiful work, Chuck.  I really like the action and the slow running.

Regards,
Rudy
Title: Re: Maudslay Marine Engine
Post by: Ramon Wilson on August 09, 2018, 07:46:44 AM
That's a truly great result Chuck and a superb runner - a fine replication from that original image too  :ThumbsUp: :ThumbsUp:

I can see several of these being made if drawings become available.

Congratulations on building and finishing it in such a short time  :praise2:

Tug
Title: Re: Maudslay Marine Engine
Post by: kvom on August 09, 2018, 11:45:32 AM
Super job!  :ThumbsUp:
Title: Re: Maudslay Marine Engine
Post by: Johnmcc69 on August 09, 2018, 03:19:13 PM
 :ThumbsUp:
Fantastic work Chuck! Beautiful fit & finish.

 John
Title: Re: Maudslay Marine Engine
Post by: Steamer5 on August 09, 2018, 03:20:09 PM
That's cool Chuck! Lovely work.

Cheers Kerrin
Title: Re: Maudslay Marine Engine
Post by: b.lindsey on August 09, 2018, 04:04:13 PM
A beautiful model Chuck and a fine addition to your collection.

Bill
Title: Re: Maudslay Marine Engine
Post by: cfellows on August 09, 2018, 11:13:15 PM
Thanks, to all you folks, for the support during this project.  It's provided me the inspiration to continue and to make this the very best model I could.  In fact, it's probably the best job I've ever done in terms of beauty and precision. 

And, I discovered another thing last night.  I took the engine to my monthly meeting of the Austin Metal Working group to show it off.  One of the guys asked me if it was reversible and I said no, figuring the valving for one direction was about the limit of my ability and, to be honest, I wasn't even sure which direction the engine would run until a fired it up.  Well, one of the fellows, Ed Hume, who does a lot of steam engine work asked why I don't just feed the air into the exhaust side to reverse it.  At first, I thought it can't be that simple.  Well, it was.  The engine does indeed run the other direction if I reverse the air input.  Happy Accident!

So, now I'm going to design and build a throttle/reversing valve and figure out where to attach it permanently to the engine.

Edit:

Just saw Brian's reversing valve.  Looks like it might work on my engine as well.

Chuck
Title: Re: Maudslay Marine Engine
Post by: gbritnell on August 10, 2018, 02:50:44 AM
Congratulations on an outstanding build Chuck! The construction and detail of the parts is first class. I'm really amazed at how smoothly it runs.
Thanks for documenting the build.
gbritnell
Title: Re: Maudslay Marine Engine
Post by: 10KPete on August 10, 2018, 05:21:18 AM
The engine has a very fluid motion, very smooth. Simple and beautiful.

 :praise2:

I still want to know more about the valve....

Pete
Title: Re: Maudslay Marine Engine
Post by: cfellows on August 10, 2018, 06:47:06 AM
Okay, folks, here goes an attempt to explain the valve set up.  First, a 2-D drawing.  Understand that the rocking motion of the cylinder effectively causes the valve to rotate 45 degrees back and forth with respect to the cylinder.

(https://i.imgur.com/eelDKfO.jpg)

Here is a 3-D exploded view of the cylinder base, cylinder pivot shaft, and valve.  All the ports are shown but may be hard to make out.

(https://i.imgur.com/J2tAJH6.jpg)

As the valve rotates with the cylinder motion, the ports to top and bottom of the cylinder are alternately connected to the annular valve slot on the left, then the right through axial milled slots on the surface of the valve body.

More pictures from the drawings which shows different views of the parts and ports.

(https://i.imgur.com/ws8AHuh.jpg)

(https://i.imgur.com/aAlQNqt.jpg)

A closeup of the cylinder pivot shaft..

(https://i.imgur.com/JsSc9NL.jpg)

Closeup showing the ports which lead from the cylinder pivot shaft to the valve chamber

(https://i.imgur.com/eKbqN0u.jpg)

Keep in mind that even tho I've labeled ports as inlet and exhaust, I later learned that reversing the airflow will reverse the engine rotation direction.
Title: Re: Maudslay Marine Engine
Post by: cfellows on August 10, 2018, 07:01:02 AM
One more image.  Blue line is high pressure in, Red line is the exhaust.  Continue scrolling down, more pictures / description further down...

(https://i.imgur.com/bDOjbxo.jpg)
Title: Re: Maudslay Marine Engine
Post by: Admiral_dk on August 10, 2018, 11:42:13 AM
Thank you very much Chuck for a very interesting journey from idea to a very fine runner + documentation  :praise2:

Best wishes

Per
Title: Re: Maudslay Marine Engine
Post by: b.lindsey on August 10, 2018, 01:07:02 PM
Many thanks for the explanation of the valve Chuck. That helps a lot!!

Bill
Title: Re: Maudslay Marine Engine
Post by: 10KPete on August 10, 2018, 03:33:45 PM
Now I see how it works! Thank you very much for the drawings and explanation, Chuck.
Very clever bit of work, that.

 :cheers:

Pete
Title: Re: Maudslay Marine Engine
Post by: Tennessee Whiskey on August 10, 2018, 04:32:59 PM
An absolute beauty Chuck. Definitely deserves a Round Rock doughnut. What is your favorite flavor Chuck?

Eric
Title: Re: Maudslay Marine Engine
Post by: cfellows on August 10, 2018, 05:39:17 PM
An absolute beauty Chuck. Definitely deserves a Round Rock doughnut. What is your favorite flavor Chuck?

Eric

Original raised, glazed donuts are my favorite.
Title: Re: Maudslay Marine Engine
Post by: cfellows on August 11, 2018, 02:51:46 AM
So today I started on a reversing valve.  It's similar to the one posted by Tug and Brian's, only smaller.

(https://i.imgur.com/zVBXORJ.jpg)

The rotating disk will be 7/8" diameter and the ports will be 1/8" diameter.  I'm attempting to incorporate the valve with no visible plumbing showing other than the valve and the inlet  / exhaust fixtures.  The ports from the valve to the cylinder will be incorporated into the brass base... or at least that's the current plan.
Title: Re: Maudslay Marine Engine
Post by: cfellows on August 11, 2018, 06:28:11 PM
An absolute beauty Chuck. Definitely deserves a Round Rock doughnut. What is your favorite flavor Chuck?

Eric

I don't suppose you had anything to do with a couple dozen Round Rock donuts showing up at my place this morning????  :)

Chuck
Title: Re: Maudslay Marine Engine
Post by: Tennessee Whiskey on August 11, 2018, 06:58:47 PM
Who: me?  8) 8)
Title: Re: Maudslay Marine Engine
Post by: cfellows on August 12, 2018, 04:54:30 AM
Today I got the reversing valve pretty well finished.  I also got the base drilled for the new air passages.

(https://i.imgur.com/hQm1KOZ.jpg)

The blue lines show horizontal holes that were drilled through the base.  The entrances to those holes will be plugged with soldered brass rod.  Here is a picture of the reversing valve disassembled.  The two holes in the bottom will connect to the two holes in the base which lead to the cylinder rocker blocks on either side of the cylinder.

(https://i.imgur.com/VfCC5hz.jpg)

(https://i.imgur.com/ToFTuvY.jpg)

The hold on the upper left will connect to the compressed air source.  The bottom center hole in the valve block is the exhaust port and goes all the way through the valve block.  Here's what it will look like assembled.

(https://i.imgur.com/UaM0X0Y.jpg)

Air will be delivered to and exhausted from the cylinder through the bottom of the cylinder pivot shaft where it passes through pivot shaft bearing blocks.
Title: Re: Maudslay Marine Engine
Post by: kvom on August 12, 2018, 01:07:27 PM
Good engineering but for me that valve looks way out of proportion to the engine, which is quite elegant.  I'd suggest mounting it on the sub-base.  Just my 2cents. 
Title: Re: Maudslay Marine Engine
Post by: cfellows on August 12, 2018, 06:08:16 PM
Good engineering but for me that valve looks way out of proportion to the engine, which is quite elegant.  I'd suggest mounting it on the sub-base.  Just my 2cents.

I think you may be right.  I'm going to have a look at mounting the reversing valve on the corian base beside the 2 air holes drilled into the brass base.
Title: Re: Maudslay Marine Engine
Post by: 10KPete on August 12, 2018, 07:04:34 PM
I like the idea of the valve mounted where you have it. The valve itself is at odds with the engine in that the valve is square with sharp corners whereas the engine is all nicely rounded and smooth.

I think some cosmetic work on the valve would solve the problem...

Pete
Title: Re: Maudslay Marine Engine
Post by: cfellows on August 14, 2018, 10:43:31 PM
Well, after careful consideration and 4 different iterations of valve bodies, I came up with this design.

(https://i.imgur.com/jcgHWBp.jpg)

The original design is on the left and the new, smaller design is on the right.  I've decided to mount the valve on the brass base, as originally intended, mostly because it's a much cleaner design and hides virtually all of the plumbing except the input port.
Title: Re: Maudslay Marine Engine
Post by: Johnmcc69 on August 14, 2018, 11:41:08 PM
 :ThumbsUp:
 I like it Chuck, fits well with the rest of the curves of the engine.

 I'll try not to digress...about...curves.... :naughty:

 John
Title: Re: Maudslay Marine Engine
Post by: cfellows on August 15, 2018, 02:51:00 AM
:ThumbsUp:
 I like it Chuck, fits well with the rest of the curves of the engine.

 I'll try not to digress...about...curves.... :naughty:

 John

Thanks, John, yes, we all like those curves...

I've begun to reassemble the engine.  Still have a bit of plumbing to finish before it's ready to run, but you can see where things are going.

(https://i.imgur.com/KYXWxvF.jpg)

Here's a picture showing the drilled passages inside the base

(https://i.imgur.com/Fnw9fGm.jpg)

The air inlet port in the base is drilled and tapped with a 1/4" model taper thread.  A short 1/4" (model size) nipple will connect to a tee.  The pipe out the side of the tee will be directed to the rear of the engine where the air supply will be connected.  The other end of the straight part of the tee will be threaded to accept a needle valve which will act as an air control valve (throttle).
Title: Re: Maudslay Marine Engine
Post by: Art K on August 15, 2018, 03:02:14 AM
Chuck,
Man I'm gone for two weekends and you go from I'll have this running soon, to running with reverse. Things are looking good Chuck. Seeing that I am from Wisconsin according to my wife there are no "good" donuts in WI. I hope that's not the case with Round Rock donuts. :lolb:
Art
Title: Re: Maudslay Marine Engine
Post by: 10KPete on August 15, 2018, 03:31:14 AM
That's just beautiful, Chuck. A very nice engine.

 :praise2: :praise2:

Pete
Title: Re: Maudslay Marine Engine
Post by: Ye-Ole Steam Dude on August 15, 2018, 09:02:01 AM
Hi Chuck,

That is perfect, really looks good with the engine.

Have a great day,
Thomas
Title: Re: Maudslay Marine Engine
Post by: gbritnell on August 15, 2018, 02:23:20 PM
I like the smaller rounded version Chuck. It looks like it was designed as part of the engine.
gbritnell
Title: Re: Maudslay Marine Engine
Post by: cfellows on August 16, 2018, 03:52:57 AM
Thanks, folks.  I got the engine back together today and was able to test it.  Unfortunately, the results are mixed.  It still runs great in the original, forward direction, no change there.   But when I switch it to reverse, it doesn't run nearly as well and the engine valve (not the reversing valve) leaks a lot of air out the valve linkage side.  This is also the side where high pressure air is admitted in the reverse setting. 

So, either the fit is a bit loose on that side or air is being blocked somewhere in the reverse setting.  I've disassembled the engine to begin troubleshooting.  I'm going to add an o-ring to the engine valve where it seems to be leaking.  I'm also going to extend the two slots that connect to the leaking side to be sure the air has a clear path to the cylinder.

I had a devil of a time trying to get a grip on the rotary valve with needle nose pliers when trying to adjust the timing, so I cut a slot on the end of the valve so I can turn it with a screwdriver.

Hoping for better results after I make these changes.

Chuck
Title: Re: Maudslay Marine Engine
Post by: Ramon Wilson on August 16, 2018, 08:12:04 AM
Just caught up here Chuck. That's a nice rendition of the reversing valve and as George says 'sits' in with the rest of the engine just fine  :ThumbsUp:.

Good idea on slotting the end of the valve - I'll take that idea up on my Corliss valves,

I'm sure you'll get that leak sorted out.

Tug
Title: Re: Maudslay Marine Engine
Post by: cfellows on August 17, 2018, 06:57:26 AM
I added some width to some of the port interfaces to reduce the chance of blockage.  I also fitted a 3/8 x 1/4 x 1/16 o-ring on the end nearest the linkage.  The performance improvement in reverse is negligible and I'm still getting a lot of leakage out of the linkage end.  I suspect the real problem with the o-ring I used is that it's not soft enough to deform from the relatively low pressure.  But, I don't have anything softer so I'm going to replace the standard o-ring with a quad-ring that I do have on hand.

(https://i.imgur.com/IHABVnT.jpg)

It's a bit thicker in cross section and will fit tighter and hopefully the shape will improve the seal.  I'm also going to cut the shoulder on the linkage end back a bit so I can fit the the linkage arm a bit tighter against the valve block.  If none of that results in substantial improvement, I may resort to remaking the dreaded rotary valve piece...  >:( Or I may try finding a silicone or other type of o-ring that is softer.

Chuck
Title: Re: Maudslay Marine Engine
Post by: b.lindsey on August 17, 2018, 04:24:48 PM
The size of the newer reversing valve is perfect Chuck. As George said, it looks like is was designed as part of the engine.  :ThumbsUp:

Bill
Title: Re: Maudslay Marine Engine
Post by: cfellows on August 17, 2018, 06:23:31 PM
The size of the newer reversing valve is perfect Chuck. As George said, it looks like is was designed as part of the engine.  :ThumbsUp:

Bill
Thanks Bill.  I'm really happy about everything on the engine except the performance in reverse.  Major air leak and very slow running.  Forward direction is perfect. 

I had a small leak around the outside edges of the reversing valve.  But I cut a shallow depression on the inside face around the screw hole so only the area containing the groves would contact the transfer holes.  That fixed the air leak there.

i think the problem now is in the rotary valve.  I squirted a some oil into the inlet pipe then turned the air on with the the valve reversed.   A lot of oil came out of the rotary valve on the linkage side.  I'm going to spend the day troubleshooting and trying to get to the bottom of it.
Title: Re: Maudslay Marine Engine
Post by: b.lindsey on August 17, 2018, 09:44:32 PM
Is there any spring tension on it Chuck? I am not sure which way you move the handle for reverse, but could it be loosening the screw some? Maybe something as simple as a spring (wavey) washer could help. I am sure you will get to the bottom of it. Just thinking out loud here.

Bill
Title: Re: Maudslay Marine Engine
Post by: cfellows on August 17, 2018, 10:38:34 PM
You might be on to something, Bill.  I'm thinking a bellville washer that exerts pressure directly over the grooves might fix he problem.  Have to see what I can rig up, since I'm pretty sure I don't have a spring washer in the right size.
Title: Re: Maudslay Marine Engine
Post by: 10KPete on August 18, 2018, 03:36:50 AM
I love wave washers. But anything springy or squishy will work. Got any thin shim you can bend?

 :popcorn: :popcorn:

Pete
Title: Re: Maudslay Marine Engine
Post by: cfellows on August 18, 2018, 06:28:55 AM
I tried making a dished washer out of 12L14 round stock.  It applied pressure to the slotted disk only on the grooves.  It stop the leak on one side but introduced a leak on the other side.  I have no idea why.

So, next I decided to install an o-ring between the valve members.  It would have worked, except the o-ring slot depth cut into the port connecting holes drilled in the back part... sigh. 

So, tomorrow I will remake the reversing valve body and drill the connecting holes further back in the part so the o-ring groove won't cut into them.  There will actually be 2 o-rings, one outside the slots and one inside the slots.   I think this is going to work.

Edit:  I forgot to mention, I may have a problem with air leaking from slot to slot.  The o-rings will have to compress flat enough that the metal parts still come in tight contact.

Chuck
Title: Re: Maudslay Marine Engine
Post by: Ramon Wilson on August 18, 2018, 08:01:49 AM
Chuck - looking at your pics of the valve  (Post 174) you don't have much material to get a seal but do you not have the width on that first land between linkage fixing point and the first groove to place a 1mm section O ring? Given the right dimensional fit that should cure any leak coming from the linkage end.

Re the rotary reversing valve - they can be difficult to get a perfect seal but lapping both faces help and ensuring that the central pivot is truly square with the faces is vital. On the last one I made I used an Oring, not just to give a seal on the pivot but also to give the necessary tension on the faces.

Hope that's not teaching granny

Regards - Tug
Title: Re: Maudslay Marine Engine
Post by: cfellows on August 18, 2018, 05:29:03 PM
Chuck - looking at your pics of the valve  (Post 174) you don't have much material to get a seal but do you not have the width on that first land between linkage fixing point and the first groove to place a 1mm section O ring? Given the right dimensional fit that should cure any leak coming from the linkage end.

Re the rotary reversing valve - they can be difficult to get a perfect seal but lapping both faces help and ensuring that the central pivot is truly square with the faces is vital. On the last one I made I used an Oring, not just to give a seal on the pivot but also to give the necessary tension on the faces.

Hope that's not teaching granny

Regards - Tug

Never be afraid to offer suggestions or even criticism.  I'm more interested in learning than taking offense.   :)  I did add a second o-ring to the engine valve, so I have o-rings on both ends now.  I've also added a total of 5 o-rings to the engine pivot shaft.  On the new reversing valve, I'm adding an o-ring outside the ports and a smaller o-ring between the ports and the center pivot screw.  The slot depth for the o-rings will be about .004" shallower and .007" wider than the .0625" thickness of the o-ring.  I've used o-rings before, but am far from an expert, it's always kind of a crap shoot whether it will work or not, but in general I've found the shallower, wider approach to work pretty consistently.
Title: Re: Maudslay Marine Engine
Post by: cfellows on August 19, 2018, 03:31:45 AM
Well, the new valve body with o-rings is a total failure.   I think I need to increase the dimensions of the reversing valve or come up with a new reversing mechanism. 
Title: Re: Maudslay Marine Engine
Post by: 10KPete on August 19, 2018, 04:22:41 AM
Hmmmm, so now we get to watch the really interesting part of this engine!! :paranoia:

 :popcorn: :popcorn:

Pete
Title: Re: Maudslay Marine Engine
Post by: Ramon Wilson on August 19, 2018, 09:09:42 AM
Hi Chuck - I'm not sure if you are referring to the engine rocking valve or the reversing valve itself.

If the latter this pic may be of help to you

(https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/D2bqoNvXKMNZem2VTPQGj0hixATs_ebPLiQ83kA2HgYvCEiUP5l1m64CNiiPLg-tKfvZZ7eYQ8nEd5NqBCVmzwFavbby6QanDC9ko99lQWQ9V2dcrtxHpuGphCP-uaBy2Ww2XcM8xs8ObJZL4cgO8QbZ6MsFup0nQQQchIbMAjsc9eZb8VXK4YgaXe4_qcSyBjtDipt4CMZ4NF-6L-Q58h-gi5ZTG7lrxNAvPEisoI5hHDuWSGFO6_0AB1z1CaORaRF5kaXurWZHGKu5BWY4P0wcr-ZOttbvtbTo7cX6uJOA-PFfQIicN04-M-3ssHSJHyeXAFKRJtzemMRxINcnCDlerrdw9QTtYrbHGR-kCg7E-JEhaiGN9W27JKIK56d7RLiLgEbxgTeIHe4gCmRU43xN8kIJhzUyOCCOIm1QhXANsEj1Ae1_fmM-ABDl5gMuawuEMfO3qkDss8uPSh1zQb9IOFToMBW9YgNPLqnlL_7C20NhT7rt1tzOAyd360yMzCjiPPG39iLbi1UWFbGV3Azpt8_evqe5Osz4jRqqvpoBFOtmjqjhgA_jwARj9AX4PSY34RMYhewTbukfYu-2sRUO2x9TYQxfCosen2c=w1224-h918-no)

This is the last reversing valve made. You will see I have lapped the brass face and the pivot hole was bored to ensure squareness to that face. The o ring sits in a recess at the back of the valve and provides the seal and the 'spring' to keep the valve faces together. It is purely face to face contact. Without stripping it down I have a feeling I had to remove the lip on the stainless part and lap that too before getting a good seal. It handles 25-30 psi without leaking.

I have made three or four of these valves to the same format one of them around 16mm dia.

If on the other hand it's the rocking valve - I hope you manage to solve it as the engine and input you have put in to it so far deserves a successful outcome

Regards - Tug
Title: Re: Maudslay Marine Engine
Post by: Jasonb on August 19, 2018, 10:13:25 AM
Chuck if it is the reversing valve that is leaking you also want a spring under the screw head to hold the moving part against the main block. Brian had a similar problem on the valve he made for his twin oscillator, worked OK once he added the spring and made sure there was clearance around the screw so the two parts could find their own level rather than being cocked to one side by the screw.

http://www.modelenginemaker.com/index.php/topic,8155.msg176002.html#msg176002
Title: Re: Maudslay Marine Engine
Post by: Ramon Wilson on August 19, 2018, 01:56:58 PM
Jason - if this is made right you don't need a spring as well.

The fatter section O ring serves as this as well as providing the seal.  Letting the faces float may be a benefit but it's much better to ensure the squareness of the face to the pivot - in my opinion  :)

Tug
Title: Re: Maudslay Marine Engine
Post by: cfellows on August 20, 2018, 03:40:41 AM
I've changed gears here.  Instead of the rotary reversing valve, I'm changing over to a simple, sliding spool valve.

(https://i.imgur.com/jlba4DC.jpg)

(https://i.imgur.com/XLmc04l.jpg)

The inlet will be the middle of the edge and the exhaust will be out each end.  Not as elegant as the rotary valve, but a lot simpler and, hopefully will work without leaking.

I think the problem with the o-rings was that the groove wasn't deep enough and was keeping the rotary disk from fully contacting the stationary block.  The only problem I can think of with the prior design, without the o-ring, is that one of the surfaces must have been dished or warped.  Hard to diagnose.

Title: Re: Maudslay Marine Engine
Post by: cfellows on August 21, 2018, 07:25:25 PM
I got the spool reversing valve installed and it works without any leakage.  But I'm back to the original problem with the rotary engine valve.  Air is  leaking from the high pressure side directly across the valve thru to the exhaust side.  I thought I had a pretty good fit on the valve but maybe I can make it better.

Chuck
Title: Re: Maudslay Marine Engine
Post by: cfellows on August 25, 2018, 04:40:33 PM
Just wanted to let you guys know I'm not done with this thing.  I ordered a set of Flexolaps and some lapping compound.  I'm going to remake the rotary valve and lap it as well as lapping the valve bore in the valve block.  I'm hoping by lapping everything I can eliminate the o-rings. 

Chuck
Title: Re: Maudslay Marine Engine
Post by: Johnmcc69 on August 25, 2018, 10:49:56 PM
 :ThumbsUp:
I've never seen you leave anything unfinished Chuck, take your time...

 You'll get it. I admire your perseverance & patience.

  :popcorn:
John
Title: Re: Maudslay Marine Engine
Post by: cfellows on August 28, 2018, 02:37:54 AM
I've got the valve block bore lapped, I think.  And now I've cut the new rotary valve to about .001" over-sized.  At some point I'm going to have to cut the inlet and exhaust groves in the rotary valve body. 

(https://i.imgur.com/xteQptF.jpg?1)

The question is this, do I cut the grooves in the valve body before or after I've lapped it to match the bore of the valve block?

Kind of need all the help I can get at this point.

Thx.. Chuck
Title: Re: Maudslay Marine Engine
Post by: Craig DeShong on August 28, 2018, 03:27:58 AM
No expert here Chuck, but I would think the lapping should be yours last step?
Title: Re: Maudslay Marine Engine
Post by: cfellows on August 28, 2018, 10:43:36 PM
On advice from another forum, I have decided to sleeve the valve block with a steel sleeve.  I think lapping the steel sleeve will be a lot more controllable and there are a lot more options for material to use for the lapping tool.  And, if I screw it up, I don't have to make a whole new valve block.

(https://i.imgur.com/6nQguDn.jpg?1)

The sleeve is made from drill rod, is 7/16" OD and 3/8" ID.  It's been reamed to .375", but hasn't yet been lapped. 

Chuck
Title: Re: Maudslay Marine Engine
Post by: b.lindsey on August 29, 2018, 12:38:14 AM
No advice to speak of, but still interested and following Chuch.

Bill
Title: Re: Maudslay Marine Engine
Post by: 10KPete on August 29, 2018, 12:38:44 AM
I think that is an excellent move, Chuck. Having to remake the cylinder would really be a pain.

Watching 'til the thing runs,

Pete
Title: Re: Maudslay Marine Engine
Post by: cfellows on August 29, 2018, 03:44:34 AM
Thanks, guys.  I started working on the ID of the sleeve.  I first used 400 grit, then 600 grit wet or dry sanding strips wrapped around a piece of slotted aluminum rod.  That removed pretty much all the machining marks left by the reamer.

Then I began lapping with the brass barrel lap and diamond paste.  I got as far as 14 micron by the end of the day.  The finish looks really good.   The bore, as near as I can measure, is perfectly circular and of uniform, .376" diameter.  Tomorrow I'll examine the bore more closely to see if there are any imperfections.  I'm kind of stabbing in the dark with this process and have limited ability to measure results. 

If anyone has any suggestions on how to measure my progress or improve my chances of success, I'm open to suggestions.

Chuck
Title: Re: Maudslay Marine Engine
Post by: cfellows on August 29, 2018, 04:09:50 AM
This is the kit of diamond paste I'm using.  Bought it a number of years ago and haven't used it very much.

(https://i.imgur.com/ZZRAPli.jpg)

This is a set of Starrett bore gauges that I have. 

(https://i.imgur.com/kmTSURo.jpg)

I'm using the largest one, which goes up to 1/2 inch to measure the bore.  It passes through the bore with consistent resistance, one end to the other, that's why I think the bore is uniform diameter.

Tomorrow I might try the 10 micron diamond paste to see if it shows up any imperfections.
Title: Re: Maudslay Marine Engine
Post by: cfellows on August 31, 2018, 02:00:45 AM
I got the new, lapped valve installed and the engine back together.  With all the trials  and tribulations with the lapping, I wasn't at all confident that I had accomplished anything.  But, I gotta say, I'm thrilled with the results.  The amount of leakage throughout the engine is now pretty minimal, far better than before I started modifying it to be reversible.  And, in the end, I didn't use any o-rings on the rotary valve.  I may not be an expert at it, but I am definitely a big fan of lapping now.

Video coming next.

Chuck
Title: Re: Maudslay Marine Engine
Post by: zeeprogrammer on August 31, 2018, 02:29:41 AM
I got the new, lapped valve installed and the engine back together.  With all the trials  and tribulations with the lapping, I wasn't at all confident that I had accomplished anything.  But, I gotta say, I'm thrilled with the results.  The amount of leakage throughout the engine is now pretty minimal, far better than before I started modifying it to be reversible.  And, in the end, I didn't use any o-rings on the rotary valve.  I may not be an expert at it, but I am definitely a big fan of lapping now.

Video coming next

 :ThumbsUp: Looking forward to the video. It's a really good looking engine.
Title: Re: Maudslay Marine Engine
Post by: cfellows on August 31, 2018, 03:06:07 AM
Thanks, Zee, probably one of the best models I've created.  I'm really, really happy with the way it turned out.

Here is a picture of the lapping tools I made and used.  A bit crude, perhaps, but boy did they work!

(https://i.imgur.com/01M8PCE.jpg)

The top image is the OD lap.  It's a 13/16" brass disk, 3/8" thick with a .385" hole in the center.  I made the slits with my 4x6 bandsaw.  I used a die holder to hold it and squeeze it together to adjust the diameter.  To lap the stainless steel valve, I started with fine, clover silicon carbide lapping compound, then moved on to 20 micron diamond paste for the finish.  I was able to get get the diameter to within about a tenth across the 5/8" length and got a nice finish.

The ID lap was made from a piece of 3/8" diameter aluminum rod.  I used a .032" slitting saw to make the axial slits in from both sides.  The slits connect for about 75% of the length.  I center drilled a #29 hole from the end thru to the center of the slit.  Then I tapped it for an 8 -32 SHCS.  The short piece of sharpened rod is 1/8" drill rod.  By inserting the drill rod and the screw, the point pushes the slits apart when it reaches the end of the center drilled hole.  I found this to be very nice lap, able to adjust the diameter in pretty fine increments.  I had tried many different lapping compounds on this piece, but in the end, finished it up with some Timesaver yellow lapping compound that Terry Mayhugh had given me.  I mistakenly mixed the powder with water instead of oil, but it seem to work fine and give me a nice, uniform finish. 

I was concerned about the fit because when I was all done, the valve slipped into the valve block with little or no resistance.  But I must have gotten a good fit because it isn't leaking any air that I can tell.

Chuck
Title: Re: Maudslay Marine Engine
Post by: crueby on August 31, 2018, 03:11:51 AM
Very interesting. I have never seen an OD lap, clever, as is the way the ID one works. Thanks for showing those!
Title: Re: Maudslay Marine Engine
Post by: cfellows on September 02, 2018, 02:18:23 AM
I posted a video of the completed engine over here:

http://www.modelenginemaker.com/index.php/topic,8403.0.html

Chuck
Title: Re: Maudslay Marine Engine
Post by: cfellows on September 03, 2018, 05:25:00 PM
I've started uploading drawings for this engine in the Plans and Drawing section.

http://www.modelenginemaker.com/index.php/topic,8408.0.html
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