Model Engine Maker

Supporting => Engine Ancillaries => Topic started by: Jasonb on February 12, 2017, 05:14:22 PM

Title: Cart Me Off
Post by: Jasonb on February 12, 2017, 05:14:22 PM
I may have mentioned that I have a pair of Root and Vandervoort hit and miss engines to finish off but if I did not them I have the 5/16th scale Vertical and the 1/2 scale horizontal. As these had been 75% completed by a previous owner I won't do a build thread but thought I would post the build of the carts for them.

Starting off with the horizontal I was given a couple of photos of the desired type of cart, possibly a bit large for this engine which mostly just came on skids or occasionally a two wheeled barrow type cart at best.  So something was drawn up to suit wheels that could be made from available tube sizes and allow a decent amount of steering lock before the front wheels hit the rails. I also had to incorporate the fuel tank which is housed in the wooden frame.

This pic shows the rear axle brackets on the full size cart.

(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v156/jasonballamy/Hit%20n%20Miss/5-16th%20RnV%20Horizontal/12111501_zpsz08l4djp.jpg)

Not being the type to waste time fondling castings a couple of bits of bar that had been cut out of a crankshaft and a piece of angle iron were cut roughly to length.

(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v156/jasonballamy/Hit%20n%20Miss/5-16th%20RnV%20Horizontal/DSC01630_zpsbhbhj74b.jpg)

The bar was milled down to a rectangular section then held in the 4-jaw to drill through 3/8" and turn a taper along part of it's length. The angle had one leg reduced to 3/4" internal and a recess milled to locate the bar. Also a small web was cut and filed up from some 1/8" offcuts and shallow locating grooves milled for that too.

(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v156/jasonballamy/Hit%20n%20Miss/5-16th%20RnV%20Horizontal/DSC01631_zps8ayompvk.jpg)

After silver soldering the bits together they were cleaned up and the corners eased to make them look like cast items.

(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v156/jasonballamy/Hit%20n%20Miss/5-16th%20RnV%20Horizontal/DSC01632_zpsvwthwuol.jpg)


This is the front bolster that needed to be copied

(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v156/jasonballamy/Hit%20n%20Miss/5-16th%20RnV%20Horizontal/12111502_zpsxfyyuppf.jpg)

It was made mostly from 1/8" flat bar with locating grooves as before which kept everything square while it was soldered. The pivot fork was turned and milled from some 2" bar, there is a matching 2" disc under the bolster for this to bear against.

(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v156/jasonballamy/Hit%20n%20Miss/5-16th%20RnV%20Horizontal/DSC01641_zps8esfnqec.jpg)

I'm affraid I did not take many photos of the axle being made but it is basically a 9/16" rod reduced to 3/8" at each end for the wheels, a short section then reduced to 1/2" which the lobe shaped brackets fit to and a milled and turned central block that was slid along the axle before it was all soldered together. The pivot hole was then drilled through both parts.

The handle was just bent up from 2ft of 3/16" steel bar.

(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v156/jasonballamy/Hit%20n%20Miss/5-16th%20RnV%20Horizontal/DSC01647_zpsom7pkgbd.jpg)

The front end assmbled

(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v156/jasonballamy/Hit%20n%20Miss/5-16th%20RnV%20Horizontal/DSC01649_zps1b0je5hj.jpg)

Wheels next time, J
Title: Re: Cart Me Off
Post by: Marty Feldman on February 12, 2017, 05:26:38 PM
Very well executed assembly.
Unclear, though, concerning your method's saving time over the fondling route.  Is it the fettling time that produces the saving?  I think I have generally thought of castings as time savers.

-Marty-
Title: Re: Cart Me Off
Post by: Dave Otto on February 12, 2017, 06:01:01 PM
Nice Fab work Jason!

Are these Randy Rockwell castings?


Dave
Title: Re: Cart Me Off
Post by: fumopuc on February 12, 2017, 06:04:48 PM
Very nice fabrication work as usual, Jason. Thanks for sharing.
Title: Re: Cart Me Off
Post by: Jasonb on February 12, 2017, 06:31:30 PM
Marty, that was a bit of a Joke aimed at Jo who seems to spend a lot of time handling her castings. But on a serious not for a one off job fabrication is often quicker that having to make patterns, get them cast and then machine the patterns. There would be almost as much work in making the pattern as fabricating the part. Had castings been available then yes very much faster.

Dave, Yes they are Randy Roclwell castings, they look to be good castings though I did not get to machine any on the horizontal as all that was left were the small fiddly bits, there are some to do on the vertical.
Title: Re: Cart Me Off
Post by: Gas_mantle on February 12, 2017, 07:00:03 PM
Jason, I like the way your fabricated parts look like castings and now that I have a modest soldering set up I'd like to try fabricating small parts - do you apply anything like Milliput, JB Weld etc after soldering to round off the sharp corners ?

Peter.
Title: Re: Cart Me Off
Post by: Jasonb on February 12, 2017, 07:12:07 PM
Yes, Usually use Milliput to add internal fillets, still to be done on these parts as I do it just before painting but here are a couple of others items that show the fillets added.

(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v156/jasonballamy/Engineering/EastonandAnderson/IMAG1102.jpg)

(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v156/jasonballamy/Engineering/Cameron%20Steam%20Pump/IMAG3193_zps6a8818d4.jpg)

J
Title: Re: Cart Me Off
Post by: Gas_mantle on February 12, 2017, 07:16:07 PM
Thanks, the parts are impressive  :)

At the moment I've only soldered brass and copper but hoping to try with a few small steel parts this week.
Title: Re: Cart Me Off
Post by: Jasonb on February 20, 2017, 05:40:24 PM
I had based the design of the cart on stock sizes of ERW steel tube that I already had so first job on the wheels was to saw off a couple of rings of each diameter. These were then faced off to 3/4" wide and the wall thickness reduced to 3/32". I would have liked to have gone down  to 2mm thickness but without a 6-jaw chuck the rings would have distorted with the pressure from the jaws.

(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v156/jasonballamy/Hit%20n%20Miss/5-16th%20RnV%20Horizontal/DSC01629_zpshc7fzefo.jpg)

To save a bit of time and effort I drew out the basic shapes of the spoke discs and e-mailed the files to Lasermasters who sent me back these in 6mm steel which fitted the rims nicely.

(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v156/jasonballamy/Hit%20n%20Miss/5-16th%20RnV%20Horizontal/DSC01644_zpsphjidi0k.jpg)

First job was to machine some 2mm deep locating recesses and some hub halves to go into them which had a slight taper to represent the draft angle of a cast hub. The centre holes were left undersize at this stage.

(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v156/jasonballamy/Hit%20n%20Miss/5-16th%20RnV%20Horizontal/DSC01645_zpsetexnh7j.jpg)

It was then just a case of mounting the embrio spoke disc on the rotary table and milling down each side of the spokes to form the "+" section and then thinning down the remaining outer web.

(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v156/jasonballamy/Hit%20n%20Miss/5-16th%20RnV%20Horizontal/DSC01646_zpscsjkxany.jpg)

With a bolt through the hub and some packing to raise the rim to half way it was just a case of silver soldering it all together.

(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v156/jasonballamy/Hit%20n%20Miss/5-16th%20RnV%20Horizontal/DSC01656_zpszcnvfbtn.jpg)

After a quick soak in the acid pickle to clean things up the wheels were held in the 3 jaw chuck and the bore opened out to 3/8" which ensures they will run true even if anything moved during soldering.

(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v156/jasonballamy/Hit%20n%20Miss/5-16th%20RnV%20Horizontal/DSC01658_zpsetxmjo3l.jpg)

I also made a few "D" pins to keep the wheels in place, some square nuts and modified the stock heads of some M6 coach bolts to look a bit more scale plus a couple of square headed sets to lock the rear axle and fork retaining collar in place.

(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v156/jasonballamy/Hit%20n%20Miss/5-16th%20RnV%20Horizontal/DSC01660_zpsskwe7chz.jpg)

Tank and woodwork next.

J
Title: Re: Cart Me Off
Post by: Kim on February 20, 2017, 06:20:34 PM
Very nice fabrication on the wheels there Jason.  I have so much more appreciation for the fab work you do now!  Its always been impressive, but now that I've tried my hand at a few small pieces, I understand the skill involved so much better (skill I don't yet have!).
Kim
Title: Re: Cart Me Off
Post by: b.lindsey on February 20, 2017, 06:28:33 PM
Indeed. I always love seeing your fab. work Jason.

Bill
Title: Re: Cart Me Off
Post by: mike mott on February 20, 2017, 07:45:59 PM
A neat way to make the wheels.

mike
Title: Re: Cart Me Off
Post by: Jasonb on March 05, 2017, 08:14:56 PM
One feature of the R&V is that it has the fuel tank housed within the timber frame of the sled/cart. Unfortunately the previous builder had use a larger diameter tube than specified and also of very thick wall which not only would weaken the sled but also weighed a ton.

Not wanting to waste the old tank I cut off the ends, you can see one to the left and then made new ones you can see the new end in the middle and the spare metal to the right.

(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v156/jasonballamy/Hit%20n%20Miss/5-16th%20RnV%20Horizontal/DSC01665_zps4kcxzqpd.jpg)

I also cut off the two bosses and turned away the remaining bits of tank, these bosses were then resoldered into a new length of thin wall brass tube that had the chrome plate sanded off. The knurling on the existing caps is not 100% but it will all be painted to look like it is galvanized so should be OK.

(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v156/jasonballamy/Hit%20n%20Miss/5-16th%20RnV%20Horizontal/DSC01666_zpslne7yhth.jpg)

A few bit sof oak were planed up and assembled into a frame and the hardware tried for size.

(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v156/jasonballamy/Hit%20n%20Miss/5-16th%20RnV%20Horizontal/DSC01674_zpsbytt6gcl.jpg)

(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v156/jasonballamy/Hit%20n%20Miss/5-16th%20RnV%20Horizontal/DSC01673_zpsv0vjrzkt.jpg)

(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v156/jasonballamy/Hit%20n%20Miss/5-16th%20RnV%20Horizontal/DSC01672_zpslzd8ukjw.jpg)

And a couple of shots with the engine stood in place

(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v156/jasonballamy/Hit%20n%20Miss/5-16th%20RnV%20Horizontal/DSC01668_zpsrr5k88bu.jpg)

(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v156/jasonballamy/Hit%20n%20Miss/5-16th%20RnV%20Horizontal/DSC01669_zpskifh3s5j.jpg)

(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v156/jasonballamy/Hit%20n%20Miss/5-16th%20RnV%20Horizontal/DSC01670_zpsqv6tnfsn.jpg)

There is also a small wooden box to go on the front to house the battery and LT coil.

(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v156/jasonballamy/Hit%20n%20Miss/5-16th%20RnV%20Horizontal/DSC01711_zps00o2pbak.jpg)

(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v156/jasonballamy/Hit%20n%20Miss/5-16th%20RnV%20Horizontal/DSC01710_zpsds0pomh6.jpg)

Time for some paint me thinks!

J
Title: Re: Cart Me Off
Post by: Roger B on March 05, 2017, 08:17:38 PM
Splendid  :praise2:  :praise2:
Title: Re: Cart Me Off
Post by: Kim on March 06, 2017, 03:41:38 AM
Looks great, Jason!  Love the box joints on the wooden box. They look very sharp!
Kim
Title: Re: Cart Me Off
Post by: 10KPete on March 06, 2017, 05:09:38 AM
The engine and cart are beautiiful!! I love the oak and the finger/box joints and the fact that you didn't fall into the "stain the oak dark" hole. Oak will darken a bit naturally... The whole thing is great.

Ummm, how do you put gas in the tank? does the tank come out?

Pete
Title: Re: Cart Me Off
Post by: scc on March 06, 2017, 09:41:46 AM
Terrific fabrication :NotWorthy:  great pics.....thanks for sharing.............Terry
Title: Re: Cart Me Off
Post by: gerritv on March 06, 2017, 01:00:43 PM
Beautiful craftsmanship.
I like the idea of laser cutting, I have seen some samples at our local club. Certainly saves a lot of time on the roughing out stage.

Gerrit
Title: Re: Cart Me Off
Post by: scalemodel on March 06, 2017, 08:03:57 PM
That cart is lovely Jason. There are so many good modlers out there that build lovely hit and miss engines then screw them to a tough piece of wood

Jonathan
Title: Re: Cart Me Off
Post by: Jasonb on April 02, 2017, 07:29:42 PM
Thanks for all the comments chaps, Jonathan I'm glad you like things so far and I also know of people who stick their models on bits of firewood :???:

As well as the Horizontal R&V there is also the vertical (http://home.earthlink.net/~randyarockwell/id13.html) one to finish off and stick on a cart. I was given some photos and both myself and the owner liked the same one which was handy, this is a pic that gives an idea of the desigh of the wheels, rear axle and how the axle joins the channel frame.

(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v156/jasonballamy/Hit%20n%20Miss/5-16th%20RnV%20Vertical/cart_zpsdwfrnqzd.jpg)

Cartweels to start with on this one :cartwheel:

The rear wheels will be 152mm dia which can easily be cut from 6" ERW steel tube, for the fronts I also had some thicker walled 5 1/2"  tube and by machining down the OD could get about 16mm difference in diameters. First job was to saw off a length a bit longer than needed for two rims and turn the 3mm and 5mm wall thicknesses down to give the 2mm thickness that I wanted. This is the smaller 5 1/2" tube having its OD reduced, I have left a section near the chuck full thickness to help keep the tube round as it starts to distort from the pressure from the chuck jaws if you are not careful. The larger rear wheels had the metal removed from the ID

(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v156/jasonballamy/Hit%20n%20Miss/5-16th%20RnV%20Vertical/20170323_164331_zps8vtypp6w.jpg)

The ring can then be sawn in half and the two wheel rims machined back to the finished 3/4" width.

(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v156/jasonballamy/Hit%20n%20Miss/5-16th%20RnV%20Vertical/20170325_075519_zpsajsjmoik.jpg)

As the spokes are dished the holes need to be drilled at an angle, rather than faff about setting the rotary table at an angle I used it vertically to put 10 evenly spaced spot drilled dimples around the centre line and then made a simple jig to drill the holes at alternating angles, they then had a shallow CSK added.

(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v156/jasonballamy/Hit%20n%20Miss/5-16th%20RnV%20Vertical/20170325_085729_zpsdenjsit7.jpg)

The hubs were machined to length and drilled through under size before mounting onto an arbor for some shaping using the ball turner.

(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v156/jasonballamy/Hit%20n%20Miss/5-16th%20RnV%20Vertical/DSC01807_zpsnianqaxe.jpg)

I dusted off my old Emco Unimat 3 dividing head/indexer as it had a 40T plate which made it easy to get the 10 holes and drilled, tapped and counter bored the hubs at an angle

(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v156/jasonballamy/Hit%20n%20Miss/5-16th%20RnV%20Vertical/DSC01809_zps62oswog1.jpg)

Finished hubs with some screws to give an idea of how the spokes should look

(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v156/jasonballamy/Hit%20n%20Miss/5-16th%20RnV%20Vertical/DSC01811_zps8dzcom2b.jpg)

Talking of spokes if you thought three triples had a lot of similar parts then thats nothing to wheel building,   40 spokes threaded one end and reduced in dia the other not much change out of a 3m length of 3mm round mild steel :( plus 40 bosses drilled and rounded on one end.

(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v156/jasonballamy/Hit%20n%20Miss/5-16th%20RnV%20Vertical/DSC01829_zpsbczpzuzn.jpg)

To assemble the wheels each spoke had one of the bosses loosly slipped over it then the threaded end was dipped in JBWeld and screwed right into the hub following which the other end was snapped into the hole in the rim, this got a bit more difficult as more spokes were added. Once all were in the spokes were unscrewed a couple of turns until the full dia started to touch the rim at which stage the wheel was held in the lathe and the spokes tweaked to get the rim to run true much like you would true a bicycle wheel. Finally the bosses were stuck into teh counterbored holes then set aside to dry.

(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v156/jasonballamy/Hit%20n%20Miss/5-16th%20RnV%20Vertical/DSC01830_zpsmmrqucfd.jpg)

All that remains to do is rivit over the ends of the spokes, tidy up the dries JBWeld into neat fillets and then pop the wheels into the lateh to bore out the hub to finished size which should help get them running totally true.

(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v156/jasonballamy/Hit%20n%20Miss/5-16th%20RnV%20Vertical/DSC01831_zpshhfodbgu.jpg)

J
Title: Re: Cart Me Off
Post by: Gas_mantle on April 02, 2017, 08:11:31 PM
Looks great Jason, I've wondered how people go about making spoked wheels.

Thanks for sharing your method  :)
Title: Re: Cart Me Off
Post by: Jasonb on April 10, 2017, 08:05:52 PM
The two axles are quite straightforward being 14" lengths of 1/2" square bar that are turned down to 3/8" dia at each end. From the photo of the original you can see that behind the wheel there is a rounded flange and then a short section of a slightly larger square. I decided to make these as separate parts and JBWeld them into place as they are not stressed parts. While I was at it I turned 4 hubcaps as well.

(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v156/jasonballamy/Hit%20n%20Miss/5-16th%20RnV%20Vertical/DSC01832_zpshbrbfvzj.jpg)

The rear axle is clamped between two blocks to the rail on each side. The bottom blocks were milled from 1/4" thick stock and the top ones from 3/8" . The mill vice stop comes into it's own on jobs like this where there are several similar parts as you only need to setup for one to first drill them.

(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v156/jasonballamy/Hit%20n%20Miss/5-16th%20RnV%20Vertical/DSC01847_zpsc1k6ivpr.jpg)

Followed by milling to shape, a home ground cutter was used to give a fillet to all the internal corners to give the blocks a cast look.

(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v156/jasonballamy/Hit%20n%20Miss/5-16th%20RnV%20Vertical/DSC01848_zpsjagwxntw.jpg)

After knocking off the corners it was time for a test fit with some temporary nuts and screws, the groove at the top will be what the side rails locate into.

(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v156/jasonballamy/Hit%20n%20Miss/5-16th%20RnV%20Vertical/DSC01849_zps3swfoczt.jpg)

(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v156/jasonballamy/Hit%20n%20Miss/5-16th%20RnV%20Vertical/DSC01850_zpshoz1v2q3.jpg)

Talking of side rails I had made enquiries about getting some 1" x 1/2" C channel but it is obsolete in the UK and the cost of getting lengths from the US was too high so I decided to make my own. Starting with some 13x13x3mm angle the edges were preped and then welded together. To avoid distortion I tacked three one inch lengths on one side with the angles clamped to a sturdy bit of structural steel.

(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v156/jasonballamy/Hit%20n%20Miss/5-16th%20RnV%20Vertical/20170331_165657_zps09secgg8.jpg)

Then flipped it over and did matching tacks on the other side.

(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v156/jasonballamy/Hit%20n%20Miss/5-16th%20RnV%20Vertical/20170331_170112_zpsrxsrv5ki.jpg)

This was repeated several times until I had a bead of weld running the whole 25" length on both sides. Following which the welds were cut back with a grinding disc and then a flap disc in the 4.5" angle grinder

(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v156/jasonballamy/Hit%20n%20Miss/5-16th%20RnV%20Vertical/DSC01851_zps7rqztwfy.jpg)

It's going to be a big'un :o

(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v156/jasonballamy/Hit%20n%20Miss/5-16th%20RnV%20Vertical/DSC01844_zps4e5gwcbq.jpg)

(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v156/jasonballamy/Hit%20n%20Miss/5-16th%20RnV%20Vertical/DSC01845_zpsvm6xlk7u.jpg)

Front bolster next time.

J
Title: Re: Cart Me Off
Post by: jeff l on April 11, 2017, 12:18:41 AM
beautiful job !
Title: Re: Cart Me Off
Post by: b.lindsey on April 11, 2017, 01:13:58 AM
The welds cleaned up very well Jason and the cart is looking great !!

Bill
Title: Re: Cart Me Off
Post by: Dave Otto on April 11, 2017, 01:30:12 AM
Very nice!

Dave
Title: Re: Cart Me Off
Post by: Jasonb on April 23, 2017, 08:01:51 PM
Although a lot of the smaller engine carts don't have an articulating front axle, this cart is styled more on the larger ones so I looked around for some suitable designes and came up with this.

The front axle will have a long top clamp and two small lower clamps the same as the ones on the rear axle.

Some 1/4 x 1" material had a slot milled out of it to fit over the axle, 4 holes drilled and the outside shaped to match the lower clamp plates. I also milled a shallow 5mm wide slot along the top into which I silver soldered an angled plate with a pivot hole.

(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v156/jasonballamy/Hit%20n%20Miss/5-16th%20RnV%20Vertical/DSC01852_zpshzhxn3sq.jpg)

I did not take a separate photo of the fork but it is a simple turning job with a 1/2" square bar solded to it that is slotted and drilled to take the axle top clamp.

To make the bolster that goes between the two side rails I started with some 3mm thick material and milled it out to leave a circular "turntable" in the middle. The shallow slot is to locate the vertical part of the "I" beam section

(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v156/jasonballamy/Hit%20n%20Miss/5-16th%20RnV%20Vertical/DSC01853_zpsoxz9nu9o.jpg)

It was then just a case of soldering up some plates to complet the I beam, with end plates and a round boss in the middle. Looks like the solder flowed nicely along all the joints.

(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v156/jasonballamy/Hit%20n%20Miss/5-16th%20RnV%20Vertical/DSC01856_zpsvvnvqtoz.jpg)

This is how it will fit within the two rails

(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v156/jasonballamy/Hit%20n%20Miss/5-16th%20RnV%20Vertical/DSC01859_zps6tq747ys.jpg)

The engine needs a couple of cross pieces to bolt too as the mounting holes in the base casting are not that widely spaced so I welded up a couple more short bits of angle to form some short C channels

(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v156/jasonballamy/Hit%20n%20Miss/5-16th%20RnV%20Vertical/DSC01861_zpssfpjnr3j.jpg)

After soldering on some end plates the channels were notched to fit within the side rails, I won't drill them until I have finalised the position of the engine.

(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v156/jasonballamy/Hit%20n%20Miss/5-16th%20RnV%20Vertical/DSC01862_zpsylaboqmo.jpg)

The engine uses quite a few square headed fixings which I had previously made

(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v156/jasonballamy/Hit%20n%20Miss/5-16th%20RnV%20Vertical/DSC01801_zpskgtlhwof.jpg)

So I also had to make up a batch for the cart, apart from the 4 very long ones the rest were cut from 8mm round as I did not have the size square stock that I wanted and off the shelf square in small sizes often has rounded corners.

(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v156/jasonballamy/Hit%20n%20Miss/5-16th%20RnV%20Vertical/DSC01863_zpszvbsrl6i.jpg)

J
Title: Re: Cart Me Off
Post by: Jasonb on October 08, 2017, 10:20:39 AM
Bit of a while since I posted in this thread but as the weather now means it is a bit more comfortable in the shed to crank over engines I thought I would put a bit of fuel into the horizontal and give it a flick of the flywheels. After a lot of flicking and fiddling with the ignitor we have a runner :pinkelephant: all my other static settings of timing, exhaust valve movement etc were Ok just the ignitor and slight adjustments to needle and choke to get it going. I have not got teh governor hooked up as it is one less thing to worry about but as you can see it will coast and then pick up again.

Always nice when an engine fires into life as it shows you must be doing something right :ThumbsUp:

[youtube1]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TC4qyRpw0UY&feature=youtu.be[/youtube1]

Just needs a lick of paint now.
Title: Re: Cart Me Off
Post by: Ye-Ole Steam Dude on October 08, 2017, 12:05:36 PM
Beautiful engine, great sound and a really nice project.

Thomas
Title: Re: Cart Me Off
Post by: b.lindsey on October 08, 2017, 12:44:49 PM
Very nice Jason!! I agree, why worry about the governor when you have your finger  ;)

Bill
Title: Re: Cart Me Off
Post by: Jo on October 08, 2017, 12:47:46 PM
Very nice Jason!! I agree, why worry about the governor when you have your finger  ;)

Bill

Its thumbs he normally worries about  ::)

Jo
Title: Re: Cart Me Off
Post by: Steamer5 on October 08, 2017, 03:41:01 PM
Hi Jason,
 She runs very nicely! Sound great too!

Read back over the cart build, that is also going to really look the part when done, to say nothing of the ideas on how to build bits!

Cheers Kerrin
Title: Re: Cart Me Off
Post by: Kim on October 08, 2017, 11:05:10 PM
That's really nice Jason - and it seems to coast a long time when you hold off ignition with your finger, so we should get a nice hit & miss sound when you get the governor in place.
Kim
Title: Re: Cart Me Off
Post by: Jasonb on March 11, 2018, 05:32:59 PM
Been a while since I posted anything on the progress of these two but over the Christmas Holidays I managed to get the horizontal painted and then got lead astray by one of Mr Corry's rejects. However now  that those nasty castings are all machined and the paint had had a good chance to harden it was time to assemble the engine and take a couple of picies.

The green is a little washed out and is quite a bit stronger more along the lines of John Deere green.

(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v156/jasonballamy/Hit%20n%20Miss/5-16th%20RnV%20Horizontal/DSC02653_zpsvv55juoi.jpg)

(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v156/jasonballamy/Hit%20n%20Miss/5-16th%20RnV%20Horizontal/DSC02655_zps7nylaqsz.jpg)

(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v156/jasonballamy/Hit%20n%20Miss/5-16th%20RnV%20Horizontal/DSC02656_zps65nvifuv.jpg)

(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v156/jasonballamy/Hit%20n%20Miss/5-16th%20RnV%20Horizontal/DSC02657_zpsehidmo6y.jpg)

Though when you take them like this the colour is less of an issue

(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v156/jasonballamy/Hit%20n%20Miss/5-16th%20RnV%20Horizontal/DSC02653%201_zpsyfd8gg4z.jpg)

(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v156/jasonballamy/Hit%20n%20Miss/5-16th%20RnV%20Horizontal/DSC02656%201_zps9oph6fds.jpg)

No video of the painted engine running as when I was setting up the timing and governor I found the guy who started the model had made the governor arm 1/16" too short so the latch won't engage, hopefully make a replacement in the week and then give it a spin.

J
Title: Re: Cart Me Off
Post by: Ramon Wilson on March 11, 2018, 05:39:24 PM
That really is a superb result Jason  :praise2:

Lovely finished model all round, model engineering at it's best  :ThumbsUp: :ThumbsUp:

Looking forwards to it running

Regards - Ramon
Title: Re: Cart Me Off
Post by: b.lindsey on March 11, 2018, 05:50:24 PM
Well done Jason. The cart and engine both look terrific!!!

Bill
Title: Re: Cart Me Off
Post by: crueby on March 11, 2018, 06:20:21 PM
That looks terrific! Clever how the tank fits into the frame rail. Looking forward to seeing it all run!
Title: Re: Cart Me Off
Post by: Dave Otto on March 11, 2018, 06:27:49 PM
Beautiful job  Jason!


Dave
Title: Re: Cart Me Off
Post by: Gas_mantle on March 11, 2018, 08:05:18 PM
Looks great, well done  :)

I know very little about hit and miss engines so I'm curious as to how powerful it is ? It gives the impression it could give a nasty bite  ;D
Title: Re: Cart Me Off
Post by: Jasonb on March 11, 2018, 08:14:45 PM
Thanks for the comments chaps.

Peter you would not want to go poking your finger sin the wrong places when it's running
Title: Re: Cart Me Off
Post by: Gas_mantle on March 11, 2018, 08:25:32 PM
Thanks for the comments chaps.

Peter you would not want to go poking your finger sin the wrong places when it's running

I can imagine  :)
Title: Re: Cart Me Off
Post by: PJPickard on March 11, 2018, 08:44:12 PM
that looks absolutely fantastic. I love the cart and your fab methods!

Paul
Title: Re: Cart Me Off
Post by: Kim on March 11, 2018, 09:33:01 PM
That is really sharp looking, Jason!
Do we get a video :)
Kim
Title: Re: Cart Me Off
Post by: Mcgyver on March 11, 2018, 11:14:57 PM
very nice!  That's a photogenic model!
Title: Re: Cart Me Off
Post by: cwelkie on March 11, 2018, 11:17:54 PM
Very nice result Jason.  A good looking cart and engine.
It's too bad that those castings are no longer available ... or at least that was the state of play last month.
Charlie

Title: Re: Cart Me Off
Post by: 10KPete on March 11, 2018, 11:27:35 PM
Super!! Beautiful model.

Pete
Title: Re: Cart Me Off
Post by: steam guy willy on March 12, 2018, 12:57:47 AM
Wow ,lovely model and the paintwork is superb , envious of your workmanship here ....
willy
Title: Re: Cart Me Off
Post by: scc on March 12, 2018, 03:55:33 PM
Amen to all previous comments. Looking forward to hearing it run. Great job :ThumbsUp:                Terry
Title: Re: Cart Me Off
Post by: Jasonb on March 17, 2018, 05:21:29 PM
Well now I can say this engine is what I call finished - Painted, Mounted and Running.

With the replacement governor latch made and a few tweaks to the ignitor it runs as well painted as it did in bare metal. It does sound a bit wheezy with quite a lot of induction noise probably due to it being happiest with the choke plate covering about 2/3rds of the carb inlet. Colour also looks better in the video.

If you can't see the video below try this link (https://youtu.be/FrKLcgfchl0) to Youtube

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FrKLcgfchl0

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FrKLcgfchl0
Title: Re: Cart Me Off
Post by: Vixen on March 17, 2018, 07:38:16 PM
Hello Jason

Is there a video with you post #47?
I cannot see one

Cheers

Mike
Title: Re: Cart Me Off
Post by: b.lindsey on March 17, 2018, 07:44:37 PM
Very nice Jason. A fine runner and looker too!!

Bill
Title: Re: Cart Me Off
Post by: Jasonb on March 17, 2018, 07:55:38 PM
Hello Jason

Is there a video with you post #47?
I cannot see one

Cheers

Mike

There is Mike, not sure why you can't see it and others can but try this link (https://youtu.be/FrKLcgfchl0) to it on Youtube
Title: Re: Cart Me Off
Post by: Vixen on March 17, 2018, 08:06:30 PM
Thanks Jason,

Thanks for the you-tube link

That's a sweet engine. Next time I get tired of my multi cylinder monsters, I would like to have a go at one.

Mike
Title: Re: Cart Me Off
Post by: Gas_mantle on March 17, 2018, 08:15:09 PM
Look great, I like models that have a bit of muscle :-)

Just as a matter of interest, I can't see the video direct from the posting either.
Title: Re: Cart Me Off
Post by: Stuart on March 17, 2018, 08:48:42 PM
The vid is ok here on my iPad

Got to agree with Jo girly green .

It does have a strange sound , but it may be what the engine should sound like

Stuart
Title: Re: Cart Me Off
Post by: Chipmaster on March 17, 2018, 08:55:32 PM
Excellent, I like the quiet chuffing sound.

Andy
Title: Re: Cart Me Off
Post by: Bluechip on March 17, 2018, 09:05:04 PM


Got to agree with Jo girly green .


Stuart

St Patrick's day .... maybe it's Leprechaun green   ??

For some reason it reminds me of being a nipper on a local farm. There was a mangold chopper/shredder for winter cattle feed made a noise somewhat like that ...  :headscratch:


Dave
Title: Re: Cart Me Off
Post by: Kim on March 17, 2018, 09:11:52 PM
That looks great, Jason!  Love the video, Thanks!
Kim
Title: Re: Cart Me Off
Post by: Ramon Wilson on March 17, 2018, 10:35:43 PM
Nothing like producing a good runner Jason - and once again you've certainly done that  :ThumbsUp: :ThumbsUp:

I have to confess though, as one with an ear finely tuned to the sound of a diesel  ;) that's rather a strange wheezing   :D

Seriously - Lovely result  ;)

Ramon
Title: Re: Cart Me Off
Post by: Doc on March 17, 2018, 11:50:48 PM
Nice cart! and beautiful engine very very NICE!!  :NotWorthy: :praise2:
Title: Re: Cart Me Off
Post by: Zephyrin on March 18, 2018, 09:09:24 AM
Attention to realism and details is amazing, Jason, congratulations for this beautiful runner !
sounds cool too, a solo by the drummer, with brushes this time !
Title: Re: Cart Me Off
Post by: Jasonb on October 21, 2018, 05:20:28 PM
Well as I got the Robinson running nicely last weekend I thought I would see if my luck would hold out a while longer so got teh R&V vertical out and spent most of the day tinkering with that. It's now close enough to being a runner that it can be stripped and painted as any further adjustments will only be minor and should not risk mucking up the paint.

<iframe width="560" height="315" src="https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3kwAUy2k4rQ frameborder="0" allow="autoplay; encrypted-media" allowfullscreen></iframe>

[youtube1]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3kwAUy2k4rQ[/youtube1]

I'm just getting worried about the strength of my shed door frame as that is the 6th notch I have cut into it this year, maybe I should slow down for a while and give Jo a chance to catch up :LittleDevil:
Title: Re: Cart Me Off
Post by: Jo on October 21, 2018, 06:21:26 PM
I'm just getting worried about the strength of my shed door frame as that is the 6th notch I have cut into it this year, maybe I should slow down for a while and give Jo a chance to catch up :LittleDevil:

Just be thankful that you aren't recovering from major surgery otherwise you too would find that it has had an impact and we would have been very worried if you had to go in for an elephant extraction  ::)

Jo &  :pinkelephant:
Title: Re: Cart Me Off
Post by: Gas_mantle on October 21, 2018, 06:32:46 PM
Looks great, any idea what the output power of something like that would be?

Title: Re: Cart Me Off
Post by: Jasonb on October 21, 2018, 07:01:25 PM
Probably somewhere in the region of 1/8 to 1/6th HP, the full size was 4HP
Title: Re: Cart Me Off
Post by: Gas_mantle on October 21, 2018, 07:09:53 PM
Thanks, I'm mainly interested in steam but steadily warming to the idea of trying to make a beginner IC engine.
Title: Re: Cart Me Off
Post by: Jasonb on November 04, 2018, 01:48:24 PM
Just to show Jo that I have not been idly wasting my time fondling castings and  :wine1: here is a quick shot of the green paint going on.

(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v156/jasonballamy/Hit%20n%20Miss/5-16th%20RnV%20Vertical/DSC03346_zpslawsm4l2.jpg)

Think I may not be using those paint brushes correctly, someone mentioned something about using the hairy end :headscratch:

The red, black and silver bits are done as is the oiling of the wood.

(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v156/jasonballamy/Hit%20n%20Miss/5-16th%20RnV%20Vertical/DSC02984_zpstuhzz9p5.jpg)

I know Jo only thinks of wood as something you burn but if she leart to treat it just like another bit of metal then she would see that it can be machined on one of her many mills. Here I have the 4 sides clamped together and am using a 4mm slot drill to cut the finger joints on an 8mm pitch, waste material either side to stop spelch

(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v156/jasonballamy/Hit%20n%20Miss/5-16th%20RnV%20Vertical/DSC02951_zpscvqfswzq.jpg)

(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v156/jasonballamy/Hit%20n%20Miss/5-16th%20RnV%20Vertical/DSC02952_zpstncg9t6d.jpg)

Quick trial to make sure it goes together, I don't stagger the parts at the milling stage so ends are higher than the sides

(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v156/jasonballamy/Hit%20n%20Miss/5-16th%20RnV%20Vertical/DSC02953_zpszrunexby.jpg)

But a quick pass over the table saw has then equal but the mill could be used.

(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v156/jasonballamy/Hit%20n%20Miss/5-16th%20RnV%20Vertical/DSC02954_zpshgqtbmin.jpg)

Add a groove (dado) for the bottom

(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v156/jasonballamy/Hit%20n%20Miss/5-16th%20RnV%20Vertical/DSC02955_zps6klurpgx.jpg)

Then the inside can be sanded and a finish applied. Once dry mask the insides so you don't get glue on them

(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v156/jasonballamy/Hit%20n%20Miss/5-16th%20RnV%20Vertical/DSC02956_zpsfpxmywy8.jpg)

Finally apply glue and clamp together, once dry the outside is sanded and finish applied

(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v156/jasonballamy/Hit%20n%20Miss/5-16th%20RnV%20Vertical/DSC02957_zpspwml1lbs.jpg)



Title: Re: Cart Me Off
Post by: Tin Falcon on November 04, 2018, 01:59:46 PM
You are having way too much fun.  :)
Looking good obvious not spending too much time in front of the telly.
Title: Re: Cart Me Off
Post by: Kim on November 04, 2018, 03:02:12 PM
Contrary to your initial thought, I DO like your picture of paint drying, Jason :)

I also like seeing how you made the finger joints for your wood box.

Thanks for posting it,
Kim
Title: Re: Cart Me Off
Post by: b.lindsey on November 04, 2018, 04:19:18 PM
Some nice finger joints Jason...that looks great !!

Bill
Title: Re: Cart Me Off
Post by: Dave Otto on November 04, 2018, 04:49:53 PM
Everything looks great Jason!

Dave
Title: Re: Cart Me Off
Post by: Vixen on November 04, 2018, 05:01:58 PM
Nice work Jason.

The finished surface is the only bit you see, so it always repays the time and patience spent achieving that perfect finish.

Mike
Title: Re: Cart Me Off
Post by: cnr6400 on November 04, 2018, 09:01:27 PM
What's that two-tone brown stuff you used for the box?  :mischief:

(I'll get me coat)

Great work Jason!
Title: Re: Cart Me Off
Post by: crueby on November 04, 2018, 10:13:41 PM
What's that two-tone brown stuff you used for the box?  :mischief:

Organic Aluminum Kasting (OAK)   :ROFL:
Title: Re: Cart Me Off
Post by: steam guy willy on November 04, 2018, 11:27:56 PM
Hi Chris,  Quercus Robur ??

willy
Title: Re: Cart Me Off
Post by: crueby on November 05, 2018, 12:30:09 AM
Hi Chris,  Quercus Robur ??

willy
Likely.
Title: Re: Cart Me Off
Post by: zeeprogrammer on November 05, 2018, 01:22:03 AM
Hi Chris,  Quercus Robur ??

willy
Likely.


 :lolb: :lolb: :lolb:

I needed that.
Title: Re: Cart Me Off
Post by: crueby on November 05, 2018, 01:29:16 AM
Hi Chris,  Quercus Robur ??

willy
Likely.


 :lolb: :lolb: :lolb:

I needed that.
For the latin impaired, that English Oak, sometimes known as Brown Oak.
Title: Re: Cart Me Off
Post by: Jasonb on November 05, 2018, 07:28:48 AM
Yep but more than likely grown on mainland Europe ;)

I was waiting for someone to say it was made from Boxwood :embarassed:
Title: Re: Cart Me Off
Post by: Jo on November 05, 2018, 07:42:47 AM
Also known as Common Weed Oak, that looks like a foreign import :ShakeHead: looking at the wide grain. Boxwood is much nicer its creamy yellow with a fine grain.

I wonder if Privet has similar properties to Box for making stuff  :noidea:

Jo
Title: Re: Cart Me Off
Post by: Jasonb on November 05, 2018, 07:50:03 AM
No look at the straight grain, plantation grown oak which tends to grow tall and straight not like if left to grow naturally like that one you had down

Don't worry Jo, both will make flames :LittleDevil:
Title: Re: Cart Me Off
Post by: Roger B on November 05, 2018, 07:57:02 PM
Do you have problems with dust when spraying your engine parts? Splendid box  :praise2: I must get back into doing some woodwork.
Title: Re: Cart Me Off
Post by: Jasonb on January 17, 2019, 05:39:32 PM
After letting the paint harden off for far longer than it really needed I thought it was about time to see if I could remember how it all went back together, I think this looks about right and there were no bits left over :embarassed:

(https://img.photobucket.com/albums/v156/jasonballamy/Hit%20n%20Miss/5-16th%20RnV%20Vertical/DSC03479_zps0iybnozq.jpg)

(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v156/jasonballamy/Hit%20n%20Miss/5-16th%20RnV%20Vertical/DSC03480_zps0d1ah6ta.jpg)

(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v156/jasonballamy/Hit%20n%20Miss/5-16th%20RnV%20Vertical/DSC03481_zpst3t31wgi.jpg)

(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v156/jasonballamy/Hit%20n%20Miss/5-16th%20RnV%20Vertical/DSC03483_zpsb30bvikf.jpg)

(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v156/jasonballamy/Hit%20n%20Miss/5-16th%20RnV%20Vertical/DSC03485_zpslgl4qpt6.jpg)

(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v156/jasonballamy/Hit%20n%20Miss/5-16th%20RnV%20Vertical/DSC03487_zpsfxgrjlc7.jpg)

(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v156/jasonballamy/Hit%20n%20Miss/5-16th%20RnV%20Vertical/DSC03488_zpsh2fthvyt.jpg)

It is not quite as lively now it is back together though that may be due to having to fit a new ring as I broke one during assembly though compression seems reasonable. I have not got the governor latching in this video as it does not need it at these speeds. Hopefully with a bit more tinkering it will liven up and the governor can be set to work.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FKNY3mU49lA
Title: Re: Cart Me Off
Post by: Gas_mantle on January 17, 2019, 05:45:53 PM
I love it - what a super looking engine and a great runner  :)
Title: Re: Cart Me Off
Post by: Ramon Wilson on January 17, 2019, 06:05:43 PM
Superb result Jason and a lovely runner to boot - a big 'congrats all round'  :ThumbsUp: :ThumbsUp:

And it's green as well  :o :Lol:

Love that colour - whose paint?

Regards - Tug
Title: Re: Cart Me Off
Post by: Jasonb on January 17, 2019, 06:47:09 PM
Thank's chaps, as I said it is not running well yet but not far off I hope.

Ramon, I did manage to sneak a bit of red on the cart so not so bad ;) The green is a bit washed out in the latest photos, if you look back a few posts to where I show them being painted that is a closer representation of the true colour, bit like a John Deere Green if you are into tractors.

The Green is Halfords finest rattle can in Rover "Java Green" over white and the red is their Honda "Rio red" over red oxide. Both finished off with clear gloss fuel proof lacquer also from halfords.

J
Title: Re: Cart Me Off
Post by: Ramon Wilson on January 17, 2019, 08:35:15 PM
Well I don't think from this perspective Jason you are going to have to do much tweaking. Sounds very good.

I used Halfords rattle can paint on the Mc'Onie - the clear coat goes on very well too

As said very nice result  :)

Ramon
Title: Re: Cart Me Off
Post by: cheepo45 on January 17, 2019, 09:07:16 PM
Very nice engine!
Love the sound.
 Scott
Title: Re: Cart Me Off
Post by: Don1966 on January 17, 2019, 11:43:06 PM
Damn Jason your just a fabricating fool but a damn good one at that. Love the engine bud always great work to follow but I some how missed this one.......   :praise2:


 :cheers:
Don
Title: Re: Cart Me Off
Post by: Dave Otto on January 17, 2019, 11:56:36 PM
Beautiful model Jason, the paint and finish work really set the whole project off!

Dave
Title: Re: Cart Me Off
Post by: steamer on January 18, 2019, 12:30:28 AM
That is just Delightful Jason!
 :praise2: :praise2:
Dave
Title: Re: Cart Me Off
Post by: b.lindsey on January 18, 2019, 01:03:02 AM
Well done Jason!! Great looking and running both. I feel sure it will settle in shortly.

Bill
Title: Re: Cart Me Off
Post by: Jasonb on January 04, 2020, 07:06:31 PM
Can't believe it's almost a year since I last posted about this engine :-[

I had intended to give it another try over the holidays and with the Type-B and Preston's Oscillator running thought I may be a on a bit of a roll so spent most of today on the R&V.

One of the issues was getting it to run strongly and for any length of time and I was having difficultly getting the timing right, as both the ignitor and exhaust valve are opperated by the same rod it was impossible to get the ignitor to fire at TDC and the exhaust to open in the right position, if I set one then the other was well off. I decided to partly strip the engine and take the cam off for a closer look - not easy as the person who started the engine had pressed it onto an oversize shaft but I managed it in the end with a few levers and a hammer.

Turned out that the cam profile which moves the pushrod was not that close to what was on the drawing and the integral eccentric that drives the fuel pump was 20thou oversize so I made a new one and things have improved quite a bit. Still needs a couple of breaths before it fires in the hit position and therefore not making as much speed as it should preventing it latching out into miss mode for long but a lot better than it was. Need to put another pin hole in the push rod so the crocodile clip that in compressing the spring more can be removed. It ran for another 3-4mins after I stopped the video and then I turned it off as things were getting a bit warm with no water in the engine.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GYMe522imaM
Title: Re: Cart Me Off
Post by: Admiral_dk on January 05, 2020, 07:45:21 PM
I certainly looks and sounds like your effort paid off nicely => a very steady runner  :cheers:
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