Nice to see you have started your next engine so soon after finishing the last :ThumbsDown: It looks much more interesting than a Stuart Victoria 8)
I don't know if it will fit your boring head but I noted that you can buy the adaptors separately from the heads from some of the suppliers.
Im sure you've seen these, but others may be interested
http://www.replicaplans.com/MuncasterSteamEnginePlans.html
I would have thought that after that those cap curves should be a breeze. (I'm assuming that you intend on putting the bolting down pads on separately).
Simon, do you have part 9 of the Muncaster series as that shows bearing cap details, as you say one large curve and two rounded ends.
:ThumbsUp: Now the difficult bit...
How long before you want to fiddle with it :naughty:.. It really needs a couple of days
Also when cutting small parts from a block its worth machining one or two faces before cutting off from the main block then you have something flat to put against the fixed jaw.
I spent a lot of time getting everything lined up, and using the adjustable parallels to get the correct center height. Then I realized that I didn't have a plug gauge to check the bore size, :facepalm:
Simon,
I sometimes share you concerns with my Wyvern build that we are posting into the void but I have decided that people are reading even if they don't comment - I know I don't comment very much and there are only so many times you can type "Way to go - still watching and learning"
So, way to go Simon - still watching and learning :)
Cheers,
Rod
Sounds like you need a second lathe :LittleDevil:I wish! First I'd have to move house to get more room :D
Watching with interest. I do like those Vise mounting clamps I think I have commented on them before.. I think I need to make a set for Sexy :naughty:They work OK, but the limited room on my milling table limits my options. First, I wish I'd made them from steel. Second, there isn't a lot of material holding the pin that slots into the vise holes, since the gap between the vise side and the table slots is small. This hasn't been a problem so far, but I can imagine that over-tightening them could deform the clamp and loosen the pin. I did consider a design that pivoted on the other axis, but I think I rejected it because it didn't work if I wanted to place my vise in the other orientation (which is also why these clamps have slots, not just a hole).
SImon,
I just realized that using the between-centers boring bar, it'll be difficult to use a plug gauge as you intended. Have you an idea for gauging the diameter?
Or make a ring gauge that will fit over the bar to speed things up,...
Bringing an OD to size is pretty easy...in the home shop....but the same is not true on the ID. I tend to make the bore first, and then fit the OD after. Then if it's .001" over...no big deal.
I adjust the piston, or the tailstock quill ::) to suite.
Would oil-hardened drill rod also work as a cutter?
I have had good luck holding small threads by taking a hex nut of the right size and sawing a slot from one flat into the center. I can then clamp the hex nut in a 3, or 6, jaw chuck. It seems to grip the thread well enough for things like making a stud or reshaping the head of a bolt. I have several sizes like this on the top tray of my lathe.
I continue to be inspired by this build.
I hadn't seen it mentioned here, but I was wondering if you'd seen this:
http://historicmodelsandreproductions.com/hmr_web_page_jan_2012_rev_5r_008.htm
Wow Simon! You n be pleased with those con rods! :NotWorthy: They look fantastic! A lot of work and a lot of steps, but your careful planning really paid off I'd say! Well done!
Kim
Yes, outstanding, and a great series of shots. When you refer to a radius milling cutter, do you just mean a ball ended cutter?
the radiused end mills I used...
...They seem a bit hard to find
Where do you get the plumber's 'ceramic blankets'? Is that the search term I should be using? I don't recall seeing the stuff at the local big-box hardware stores.
Looks good Simon, what size thread is that on the rods? looks a bit light for a large engine
That looks great Simon! You're really getting along there!
Speaking of sharp edges, is that a dab of your blood I see on the inside of the back cross head? :o Or just red layout dye? I could mail you a pirate band-aid! :Lol:
You may need to use a different flux, overhere Tenacity 5 or HT5 are needed for stainless as they remove the chrome oxide
Simon I was always tought when soldering part slike this to tin both faces first, that is apply a thin layer of solder, wiping off any excess while still hot. You then put the two together with a littel flux and heat to "sweat" the joint together. This tends to give a closer joint with less solder and as you can see the two surfaces you are sure they are fully coated with solder
You mentioned the spiral reamer might do better than a straight reamer because of the solder.
I've not come across a spiral reamer. Does it help move shavings out of the way?
Are there other cases where a spiral reamer would be preferred? Or rather...what are the advantages?
Jasonb told me that you were building this engine after I posted my intention to build it from castings. So I spent most of the morning reading the entire thread. I was impressed that you are maintaining a lot of the draft angles and other decorative details from the castings.
I've ordered the plan set for the full size kit. I saw the finished engine at Cabin Fever last year, and have been thinking about this as my next "big" project when my loco build is done. Since I have a CNC mill, I suspect I'll have an easier time with some of the parts than you will.
Dennis at Heritage Model Engines told me a bit of the history. Seems 5 modelers in Detroit some years ago used the Muncaster drawings to make patterns and had the castings poured. However, they didn't get the valve drawn properly and only one of them got a working engine. It's not clear if the error was in Muncaster's drawing or in their interpretation. Dennis modeled it in 3D CAD to get a working valve train, and apparently had access to the patterns. So he's been selling the castings and drawings for 10 years or so.
Enough about my plans for this. I will mention that with respect to the conrod bearings, I recently saw an example where a loco builder used a solid bronze bearing for his main rods, and then covered them with a thin brass sheet with an engraved line to simulate a split bearing. Doing this saves the problem of a working wedge. I'll have to wait until I get the drawing set to decide if that's a good way to go.
Really nice work Simon :praise2: :praise2: I find it hard to judge the size, but if the files are 'normal' Swiss file size (2-6mm) those are some pretty small parts
I received the full-size drawing set today. The side lever at the cylinder end isn't show on the plans, so it is almost certainly to operate cylinder drains that might be needed to operate on steam.
but I'm still kicking myself over the bearing!
Luckily I was able to knock the broken end out of the part from the other side. I obviously wasn't doing it right, but what's the right way to use a taper pin reamer? It seems like it's going to be cutting along its whole length once the hole steps are taken off, which, for an HSS tool less than 1/8" in diameter, seems like a lot of cutting pressure.
What end of the pin did you mill down? Just the one opposite the end you peened? Or both? (Cause I'm wondering why you peened.)
BTW, what do you use for a heat source for your silver soldering? What kind of torch do you have?
What end of the pin did you mill down? Just the one opposite the end you peened? Or both? (Cause I'm wondering why you peened.)
Zee, the peening is really just to get the pin to fill the hole, so that the join becomes almost invisible after cleanup. I peened both ends, and milled off and filed both ends, so the pins just disappear. (I rather liked the look with the pins visible though!).
Great work on the crankshaft Simon! It looks wonderful!
And I'd forgotten how big your engine was! Wow! :o
Just curious, did you loose any alignment when you cut the main shaft? I did the same process on my Marine Twin and believe things snapped out of alignment by a few thousandths when I did this. That was fine for my tolerances though :). Wondering about your experience on this point.
Hi Simon, did you ever tried a simple slided bush with a threaded hole inside ? To adjust the length of the stud to be screwed in, a bolt or grub screw be will used from the opposite side as a attempt. So first one side of the stud will be finished , than cut of and screwed into the above mentioned slided bush, the whole unit will clamped into a chuck or collet. Other side of the stud can threaded now.
Looks like GHT's fixture only grabs the threaded part of the stud, but I suppose if you tried to grab both the threaded and non-threaded parts, you'd have to be very consistent in the diameters for it to hold securely. It sounds a bit fiddly to make, but I'll give it a shot. A 4BA holder isn't too small...Simon if you noticed that the stud holder is slit at three places and threaded. With the nut and the taper the fixture will lock around the threads and the end screw is used to lock the stud in place. GHT also said to put flats before you slit it. It should, if done correctly put your stud dead center. Don't forget to harden the parts.
Simon
Looks like GHT's fixture only grabs the threaded part of the stud, but I suppose if you tried to grab both the threaded and non-threaded parts, you'd have to be very consistent in the diameters for it to hold securely. It sounds a bit fiddly to make, but I'll give it a shot. A 4BA holder isn't too small...Simon if you noticed that the stud holder is slit at three places and threaded. With the nut and the taper the fixture will lock around the threads and the end screw is used to lock the stud in place. GHT also said to put flats before you slit it. It should, if done correctly put your stud dead center. Don't forget to harden the parts.
Simon
Regards Don
I compared the Muncaster drawing to the plans I have. Muncaster has the lower link 3/4" thick (as I read it on pg. 320), while Dennis drew it .438". The pins are 3/16 in either case. The lower part is tapered up to the middle hole, which would also give some clearance.
In any case, Dennis' assembly drawing does show it very close to the wall of the well.
When I look at other dimensions I have vs. Muncaster, I see some other differences that could cause the link to give more clearance with the conrod at BDC:
1) The distance between the pivot pin and the crank center is 10.129 vs. 10.5".
2) The vertical distance from the pivot pin to the crank CL is 1.888 vs. 1-3/16".
3) But the biggest difference by far is that the linkage hole in the conrod is 4" from the piston end vs. 3.5 for Muncaster. Since I'm sure you don't want to remake the conrod you'll need to fiddle with possible small changes and then recheck any changed dimension with the valve simulator.
Thank you Rod, Jo, Roger, Kvom, Dave, Tim and Kim!Beautiful work Simon and I have to echo what everyone else has said. Thanks for sharing this with us. And I have to agree with you those details no matter how complex they are make an engine more distinguish and unique. There is no rush to finish and engine and the time spent is worth the efforts when it's complete.
Kvom, to me this part and the associated guides "make" the engine, since they are so visible on the the top and draw attention to the unusual valve mechanism, so they have to look pretty! I'm quite looking forward to doing the bronze slides, and then we'll really see what the assembly looks like!
Simon
No, thank YOU for taking the time to record it for us. Astonishing
:NotWorthy:
Thanks,
Rod
Dennis' version of the valve guide uses a lozenge shape with two screws like the packing gland, and specifies bronze. Can't decide which I like better. :shrug:Interesting, mine is more faithful to the plans. Perhaps Dennis was trying to match the glands for appearance?
I've always wondered why this type of guide is needed. :headscratch: In principle steam pressure will keep the valve itself against the ports, and the gland will keep the valve rod straight. I didn't need a long valve rod and guide for my loco build.
Simon:
Very nice parts. Your work is meticulous and inspiring. Thank you for posting the build and in the detail you've included.
I'm curious though. Back when you built the conrods you started with round stock and used a bandsaw to get rectangular parts. I remember this because I thought if I tried this my saw would wander enough to ruin the parts. But on these valve rods you silver soldered square stock to the stainless rods, and then made them round using a rotary table. I thought you could have made the round end and silver soldered it to the ground rod.
Are these choices due to stock on hand or is there more to it?
At least for this case, my way seemed to turn out OK :)
and it's starting to look like Muncaster's Joy's Valve Gear Engine!
Magnificent work as ever :ThumbsUp: :ThumbsUp:
Is the pivot for the control rod really wrong? Does it fit if you turn the right angle doodads the other way round?
Magnificent work as ever :ThumbsUp: :ThumbsUp:
Is the pivot for the control rod really wrong? Does it fit if you turn the right angle doodads the other way round?
Roger - my immediate thought as well
Pete
So if that was the final "moving" part how much more is there to go Simon?
:headscratch: So how big is the flywheel you have on there at the moment? Any plans for what type you are going to fit?
Looking good Simon.
Regarding the milliput if you apply it like in the photo then do as you did on the holddown lugs on the base - take something with a round end, dip in water and just run that around the joint, the water stops it sticking to the putty. It will shape the milliput far better than it shapes JB Weld, you can then easily remove the excess and follow up with a damp artists paintbrush for tha final smoothing, should not need any rubbing down afterwards either.
Excellent flywheel :ThumbsUp: :ThumbsUp: You also like to see just how far you can push your lathe ;) Still following along :DrinkPint:
It's running OK, but there are a few tight spots that need some attention, and one of the valves isn't seating quite right :thinking:
I've discovered that one of the pinned joints on my crankshaft is loose now (must have become loose when fitting the flywheel) :hammerbash:
I'll try treating with Loctite 603, but the penetration won't be good so this would be a temporary fix. I don't think I can bash out the pin and re-glue without damaging the parts. Since I have some big sticks of 1144SP kicking around, I'm back to thinking about a turned crankshaft.
Simon
I think rather than D shaped bosses I would go for round ones which can be screwed into fine pitch threaded holes (such as 40 TPI) these can then be tapped for the drain cocks.
If you cut the thread on the boss with a die and do it on the end of a decent length of bar you will have something to get hold of so it can be screwed in tightly and will wedge itself in a bit like a taper pipe thread, the JB Weld will seal any gaps and make sure it does not come loose.
PS on those drain cocks what will stop the tapered spindle working its way loose, you probably want a nut on teh small end to keep the spindle pulled into the taper.
Unless you are going to run high pressure steam you should be able to use soft solder. 30psi steam is 275F.
I was a bit surprised that you hollowed out the bottom of the cylinder, since you will need a sub base to clear the flywheel. Your exhaust tube could have been routed to the sub-base. Same applies to cylinder cocks if you need to route the drains using copper tube.
You're right that I could have taken the exhaust and drain cocks out through the sub-base, which would have given a neater appearance. Wish I'd thought of that now!
Now to the linkages that open and close the drain cocks.
I decided to go for a handle on the outside, riding in a bronze boss, connecting to a parallel linkage on the inside. First, the "frame" for the parallel linkage is a bit of bar with three holes which will have bronze bearings, and two stud holes (lower in photo):
(https://farm8.staticflickr.com/7340/15925059563_c429bd5b2f_z.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/qgf6ot)
Jason
If you only used one valve piped to each end it would breath though the pipe and not get full cylinder pressure each side
Think of it as a bypass to the piston
I don't know if you piloted them or not, but they should be.
I had lost track of your progress. Glad to see it back in play.