Model Engine Maker
Engines => Your Own Design => Topic started by: Brian Rupnow on February 27, 2020, 07:06:45 PM
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I have developed the concept and plans for this engine over the last couple of days, under a thread titled "A different engine configuration". Now that the plans are 95% blocked out, I am going to create this new thread dealing with the actual fabrication of the engine. You are all invited to follow along, and assuming this engine is a success, I will be selling the plans after I am finished.---Brian Rupnow
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Just so ya know----I'm going a bit beyond my comfort zone here. I haven't made an engine over 1" bore before. All rotating shafts will be on sealed ball bearings except the big and small end of the con rods (both of them). I'm done with bronze bushings. The Rockerblock style is tried and proven on one of my previous builds. I will be using purchased cast iron rings (because I really suck at making them). My ignition will be the old tried and true Chrysler ignition points, and my CM6 sparkplug has a 10mm threaded end and can be purchased at an auto parts store. The cylinder will be made from grey cast iron, and virtually everything else except the shafts will be made from bar stock aluminum. The flywheels will be fabricated from mild steel, and I hope to make them using my new TIG welder that I bought this week. My ultimate goal is to build an engine powerful enough to drive my edger. A piston of 1 3/8" diameter has almost twice the surface area that a 1" diameter piston has.
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Brian,
This should be an interesting build, I will be following along. This is looking to be a very different configuration and begs the question whats next after this? A deltic like Napier's
Art
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This morning's work was to add in all the other things you need to have with an i.c. engine, namely the gas tank and a way to support it, some shafts, and a whole bunch of drilled and tapped holes with matching counterbored holes. There are more elegant ways to support a gas tank, but this is simple and gives you the capability of raising or lowering the gas tank. (which can have an effect on the way the engine runs).
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Just food for thought - if designing an IC engine for best power per cc, breathing and gas flow are very important. Small utility motorcycle makers have been optimizing power for years. There are some common elements in these types of 2 valve 4 stroke air cooled workhorse engines that deliver high power and extreme reliability, as follows:
1. biggest valves possible, inlet should be larger than exhaust if possible
2. hemispherical (or nearly hemispherical) cyl head and domed piston
3. inlet duct and carburetor are large and not restricted, and proportional to inlet valve
4. exhaust duct proportional to ex valve, and not restricted
5. electronic timing and high energy coil
6. sparkplug location in inlet flow's swirl path
7. compression ratio around 7:1 for pump gas
If you include some or all of these elements in your new engine design you will likely see a big power increase over hit and miss style engine designs. Pic of the head out of a hopped up utility motorbike engine is attached.
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Hi CNR6400--I am going to the larger cylinder. I am also going to a larger valve. I'm going up from 5/16" exhaust and inlet piping to 3/8". I'm going to stay with the same old combustion chamber shape in the cylinder head because with purely manual machines I can't do a hemi head.
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Hemi head is doable on a manual machine, I did one about 3mths ago from barstock and have done another from castings. But then again the extra friction from the rocker beam and two conrods will likely suck up any gains in power.
The sharp elbow on the exhaust and the relatively small bore of the muffler won't help and would be an easy mod to let the engine breathe more easily.
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Jason---While you were posting, I've been tweaking the models. I opened up all of the intake and exhaust pipes and elbows and took them from 5/16" to 3/8". I could take the elbows out completely and go for a direct flow, but I like the look of it better the way it is.
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I've spent most of the afternoon making detail drawings of the new engine. It has snowed here for the last 48 hours and it's still snowing. It's the biggest snowstorm I've seen in years. There is a rather zen like peacefulness in making detail drawings. All of the heavy lifting gets done during the in initial design process. I have to go down street Monday and buy material. My new welder hasn't showed up here yet, so I guess I won't see it until Monday. I've spoken to the people at Canadian Bearings in Barrie and the have the two sizes of sealed ball bearings that I need---Monday. I've spoken to the fellow who makes rings for model engines and he has the piston rings I need for $5 each, and I'll probably order them on Monday.---Monday may be a busy day!!!
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I just snapped this picture of my truck in the driveway--I'm waiting for the plow to come. They are calling for more snow tonight, tomorrow and tomorrow evening.
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Gack. Close the garage door, back in the house, and stay warm!
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On one hand, I feel for you. On the other hand, we've had nothing here and I kind of miss it.
I was turning 7 when I experienced my first snow (we had been living in Hawaii and moved to Arkansas for a year).
I prefer the seasons rather than a season.
So far.
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Actually, we have had a fairly mild winter, with only about a 10" to 12" accumulation of snow on the ground for the entire year, which is below normal for Barrie. We are very much effected by the moisture coming in Of Georgian Bay, which is a very large body of water on the East side of Lake Huron, one of the great lakes. Yesterdays snowstorm dropped about a foot more of snow on us, so we just see it as a leap year dirty trick. March will hopefully get rid of it.
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The design is complete and the detail drawings are all finished. The only parts not shown on the drawing are the valve springs. I will root around in my stockpile of odds and ends to see what I actually have to start working on, knowing that I will buy the bulk of the material on Monday to really get into this.
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Good morning Brian,
Another really neat design from you and an interesting project that I will be following.
Have a great day,
Thomas
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So what do you do when it's the middle of winter and you don't want to go and play outside?--Well of course, you make parts!!! I've rootled thru all of my scraps and came up with enough material to make the main rocker, the two cross pins for the ends of it, and the two spacers that keep the rocker centered in the frame. I have to buy a bunch of aluminum plate, but I've got enough odds and ends of material here to keep me busy over the weekend.
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:popcornsmall:
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Today was connecting rod day at my house. My, but there is a lot of work in one lousy connecting rod---and it isn't finished yet. I still have to turn 0.031" off each side and leave a boss at both ends. Also, I've added a shot of the biggest icicle in the world. It's hanging off the eves over my back deck. I don't think I have ever seen an icicle this big. It's over six foot long!!!
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Brian,
Couldn't sleep and am browsing. I do remember 30 some years ago. I drove to work, parked and when I left there was a mountain of snow shoveled on top of my 1965 Chevy Bel Air. Opened the door got in backed out then spent the next 15 minutes clearing the snow off it, was nice and toasty warm when I got back in. They must have spent their whole lunch shoveling it on.
Art
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And what's better than having one connecting rod?---Well of course, it's having two connecting rods. Now I have to go and chase down bearings and plates.
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Just got back from running around town. In one picture you see all of the material and bearings for Thumper ($98.00) in the other you see my new TIG welder, so new I haven't got it out of the box yet.
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In keeping with my "Make at least one part a day" policy, here is todays part. It is the cylinder mounting plate. Nothing really fancy here, but quite a few holes in different places. Thank God for DRO's.
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This mornings work yielded up a finished baseplate and a muffler. Neither were difficult parts to make. I have to head downtown to the nut and bolt shop now, and do a bunch of searching for the correct receptacle box to plug my new tig welder into.
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Tomorrow I will designate as "Side plate day". The side-plates are pretty well identical, except that the counterbored holes make them right and left hand. It is much less work if I can do all of the profile work on both plates at the same time. I will bolt the plates together , putting the connecting holes somewhere in the center area that gets milled away as a "last step". One plate will be drilled and tapped, the other will have countersunk or counterbored holes in it so it will lay flat. even the counterbored holes can be put in---When I separate the plates the bottom plate can be flipped over and counterbored.
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Brian,
Looks like you're making good progress. I must admit though that from the perspective of someone working 50 hour weeks, a part a day sounds ambitious.
Art
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Art---Everybody seems to be amazed at the speed I build my engines. I'm retired!!! I can work all day, every day on my stuff. I find it infinitely entertaining. All I really have to be concerned with is that I spend enough of each day with my good wife.
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I came downstairs this morning with my cup of coffee and began laying out my side-plates. At this point I will join two pieces of material together, so all of the drilling and cutting applications ca be done at once on both plates. I trust my DRO's completely, but still lay everything out beforehand, just to be sure my layout makes sense and to give me assurance that I have the DRO in the places I really want to be.
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I trust my DRO's completely, but still lay everything out beforehand, just to be sure my layout makes sense and to give me assurance that I have the DRO in the places I really want to be.
Amen to that - makes very good sense :ThumbsUp:
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Here we are with all of the major holes drilled. Eventually, all the center has to be cut out/machined away, and the outer profile machined. You can see the heads of the two 1/4" bolts which are holding the plates together.
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This pretty much covers the work that can be done with the two plates still bolted together. The exterior profile is completely machined, and a good portion of the inner profile. And it comes close to my own limits for the day. Tomorrow I will separate the plates and mill away what is left of the inner profile, and add some counterbores and some tapped holes.
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Today seen the completion of the side plates and first assembly of the overall frame. Everything goes together and everything clears. I will now order my piston rings. I don't want to make the piston until I have the rings and I don't want to make the cylinder until I have the piston. While I wait for the rings I will make the next part which sets on top, where the bearing caps would usually go.
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Hello Brian,
Looking really good.... :ThumbsUp: :popcorn:
Have a great day,
Thomas
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:ThumbsUp:
It's looking good Brian! Nice work & a neat design.
John
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Thank you Thomas and John--The next part that sets where the bearing caps would normally go is going to make my old heart go Pitter-Patter!! It is going to be a cam box, which has the camshaft bearings, camshaft and cams in it. The bolts which thread into the rest of the frame on each side of the main bearings pass thru this in clearance holes. The "window" cut into the side allows me access to the cams to set them at the proper rotational aspect.
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Today I machined the cam box. It is finished except for the bores for the camshaft and bearings and the recess and clearance for the crankshaft bearings. I'm not sure if I can get #10 bolts that are long enough, but if I can't, then studs and nuts will work.
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I've been following your threads. A lot of progress in the few recent days I missed!
Looking forward to more.
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No machining today. Drove up north to see my mom. She will be 100 in August. She is still doing okay---Fading a bit, but then a century is one heck of a long time to live.---Brian
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I was able to buy #10-24 shcs x 3" long today, and shortened them to 2 3/8". They worked fine and had enough thread that I didn't need to extend the thread with my #10-24 die. I've had some other stuff going on today, so didn't get any real machining time in on my project. Tomorrow I will set everything up on my milling machine and drill/bore the clearance for the crankshaft and the recessed bore for the crankshaft bearings, as well as the bores for the camshaft and bearings.
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This morning was time to bore the cam box. I have learned thru experience, that this should be done with the cam box attached to the engine. First step was to attach the entire engine to an angle plate, set up square to the mill bed. The cam box was removed, and the bearing which sets in the sideplate recess was loctited to a piece of 1/2" shaft and held in the mill chuck. This allowed me to move the mill bed in both the x and y axis until the bearing was an exact fit into the recess cut for it. the DRO was set to "0" and the cam box was securely bolted in place. That allowed me to put in both the clearance hole for the crankshaft and the bore in the exact place it should be. Then it was time to move the mill table the required amount to put in the clearance hole in the cam box for the camshaft and cam bearing. I will now flip the engine over and repeat for the far side holes. I had to use a boring head to prepare the recess for the crankshaft. I got lucky and had an endmill of the exact size I needed for the camshaft bearing recess.
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And here we are with all of the ball bearings and dummy shafts in place.
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I can't reach Dave Reed at Ringspacers.com. I have emailed him and tried to telephone him, but nada. I want to buy a set of two rings for this engine I'm building but I can't reach Dave, who I've dealt with before. Are there any other reputable dealers that sell 1 3/8" dia x 3/32" thick piston rings for a 4 cycle i.c. engine?---Brian
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Regardless of whether I go with 1 3/8" bore or have to change over to a metric semi equivalent 35 mm (in order to get rings), the gears won't change. I have the material on hand to make the small gear from mild steel, and the large gear from cast iron. I would rather make the large gear from brass, but it's gotten too spendy $$$ for my blood.
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I just sent an inquiery to Debolt about his rings. There is nowhere on his order form to say that you are Canadian, so I sent him an email.
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It's looking good Brian!
:ThumbsUp: :popcorn:
John
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Is it just me or is anyone else getting Brian's pictures about 4 foot wide?
Ian.
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Hi gunna, the pictures still look fine here on an iPad
MJM460
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I've just had one of those King Midas in Reverse days.---Everything I touched today has turned to crap!!! As a consequence, I don't have any nicely machined gears to show you.--On the plus side of things, I found a nasty old chunk of brass that was big enough to make the blank for the large gear. I have company coming to my little shop tomorrow, so I have to stop machining for the day and go into housekeeping mode. My shop and office look like a rats nest caught in a hurricane.
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I hate those days - walk away from the shop, find a good book to read, and relax! :happyreader:
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Today was a much more satisfying day than yesterday. This morning I hosted a meeting of myself and two other gentlemen who's interests lay roughly in the same direction. One fellow is an engineer who operates a steam excursion train out of Huntsville in the summertime (about 70 miles north of where I am), and the other chap is from Wasaga beach and has a background in model trains and all things electronic. A fourth guy lives in Toronto and couldn't make it up to Barrie today. After they left, I set yesterdays gear blanks up on the mill and turned them into real gears. They seem to fit just fine where they are intended to.---In other news---Barrie got it's first case of Corona virus today, a man in his fourties who just returned from a trip to Germany. This scares me. They say it kills mostly old guys. Damn---that's me. I'm an old guy!!!
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I decided today to make the support which is the pivot for the rocker arms a different way. I have changed it to a flat plate with two guide bushings for the lifters, and made up a different piece (colored grey in the picture) which attaches to the top of the cylinder head with three of the head bolts.
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Brian,
Some folks I was talking to yesterday were saying that now they say people over 55 should be concerned and that's me. Great progress on the engine. Sounds like a great opportunity with the club, I joined the North East Wisconsin model engine builders because it's another group in my vicinity. The meetings are generally a 2 hour drive but it's a great bunch of guys. I hope it works out!
Art
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Today yielded a new top plate which bolts to the top of my cam box, and a 1 3/8" diameter piston. The piston has had everything done on it that can be done on my lathe. Tomorrow it will spend a bit of time with my mill and rotary table to get finished up.
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Brian is another modeler who doesn’t let the grass grow between his toes :ThumbsUp:
You’re well into your next project, while I’m still trying to decide what mine might be :slap:
Following along. :popcorn: :popcorn:
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Today was cylinder day. The cylinder is made from cast iron. The piston does fit the bore---with a little persuasion. That is exactly what I wanted. Tomorrow I will run my brake cylinder hone thru the bore of the cylinder, and if I need to, will coat the piston with a bit of aluminum oxide #600 paste and lap the piston into the cylinder. I have ordered two compression rings from Debolt in USA.
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That's coming along nicely :praise2: :praise2: Will the rocker mechanism improve the balance of the engine by cancelling out some of the piston forces?
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I doubt it. It isn't planned to work that way.
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Today we have a cylinder head.--And trust me, lads, there are some strange and wonderful set-ups involved with making this part. Everything came out like the drawing asked for, but there was a bit of tongue biting and butt clenching involved!!!
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It starts to look like an engine now Brian :cheers:
Per
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Thanks Per---Today I drilled and tapped both ends of the cylinder for #8-32 bolts, and happily everything bolts together properly. I honed the cylinder with my 3 stone brake hone, a total of 50 slow strokes end to end. I hone it dry with no lubricant. The piston was quite happy to start into the cylinder for about half it's length, then started to tighten up. I coated the piston with #600 grit aluminum oxide paste, and mounted the cylinder in the three jaw chuck on my lathe. I have a temporary handle which fits into the piston and is locked there by the wrist pin. With the lathe on it's lowest speed I began slowly working the piston into the cylinder about 1/8" at a time, ready to let go immediately if it "grabbed". When it started getting "grabby" I squirted a little #30 oil onto the piston and kept working it back and forth until it started to come out the other end of the cylinder. At that point I stopped, cleaned piston and cylinder with laquer thinners, then gave both a scrub with an old toothbrush and some dish detergent. When dry, the piston will fall thru the cylinder. If I put my hand over the end to seal it, the piston stops. This did NOT give a tight enough seal for the engine to run without rings. To run without rings, as my marine engine does, takes a much tighter fit and a much longer time lapping. I'm happy with the days work. I've had to give up taking my "Fat man's walk" in the local mall because of the virus. Yesterday I returned to my solitary walk in the woods for exercise. It is beautiful there, but we still have about a foot of snow in the bush, ---I'll be glad to see spring come.---Brian
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Engine is coming along very well, very interesting! :popcorn: :popcorn: :popcorn:
If the snow is too deep, you need to figure out how many thousand laps of the shop per mile...
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Hi Chris--My shop is only 7 foot x 8 foot----I'd have a groove wore into the cement.
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Not one of my better days today. I had planned on making the rocker arm support. It is going to be made from two pieces of steel silver soldered together. I made the base first, then bolted it into position on top of the cylinder head to check the fit. Then things went astray---I picked out a piece of steel flat-bar, proceeded to shape it, drill it, mill it---and then I discovered that I was working with a piece of 1" wide bar, not 1 1/4". Misread my own drawing. Bah!! Humbug!! Will try that piece again tomorrow.
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Looks like you will need more that 1 1/4" to get it out of as don is 1.264", though looks like plenty of metal there so could be reduced to 1.250".
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1 1/4" would have worked fine for what it was doing. The critical area are the 3/16" slots, the overall width is somewhat meaningless. Seeing as how I buggered it up and have to remake the piece, I will make it to the dimension.
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Perseverance pays off.--A new day, a new part. It isn't welded yet. This is one of those situations where alignment is going to be very critical. I'm going to have to build a welding fixture to perfectly align the parts. The welding fixture may be more complicated than the part.
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Why not just attach it with flat head screws from the bottom?
John
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Would it not have been simpler to do the critical holes and slots after welding, saves on making a complicated jig and risking any heat distortion.
How are you getting on with the new Tig welder?
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Kind of a cheap and nasty welding fixture, but it will work to hold the parts in alignment while I silver solder them. I had designed something a lot fancier, but decided to go with something quick and nasty. Why didn't I bolt the pieces together?---Because I never thought of it. Where am I at with my TIG welder--I took it out of the box, had a look at it, seen that al the parts were there, read the manual, and sussed out a way to plug it into my existing 220 volt outlet. It is still winter here, and my main garage is not heated, so I've been deferring anything to do with the TiG until the weather breaks a little.
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Brian,
You could do both, bolt it from the bottom while waiting for the weather to break.
Art
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Too late Art.--the deed is done. That turned out very well. The alignment seems to be about perfect. You can see in the bottom of the picture that I am working on the gas tank. I have to solder in a filler neck and j.b. weld the ends into it.
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And, with the gas tank filler neck soldered into place, that is enough for today.
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Brian,
Ok never mind, wow when the weather breaks in the great white north it doesn't waste any time. We had snow that turned to rain later but for the most part our snow is gone.
Art
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I've reached the point where I'm running out of big parts to make. Today I will finish the gas tank. This leaves me with a handful of small parts---valves, valve cages, cams, lifters, lifter bushings, exhaust and intake elbows and ignition cam. Of course the one big part waiting in the background is the crankshaft. I haven't decided yet whether to make it a one piece or a "built up" style. I think I will make the rest of the pieces in order of "easiest first, most complicated last". I think the time has also arrived to make a new "George Britnell valve seat cutter". the one I made a few years ago has been just marvelous, but it is getting old and dull, and the valves on this engine are larger than any I've made before. Goodwife and I are self isolating, but this is going to wear pretty damned thin after a couple of weeks.
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This afternoon seen two tappet guide bushings machined and pressed into place. I don't know exactly what grade that stick of bronze is, but it is miserable stuff to machine. All my turning was done with inserted carbide tooling. It seemed to be even harder to work with than 1018 cold rolled stock. The gas tank still requires a little work, but I will give the j.b. weld 24 hours to set up before I do any further machining on the tank.
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Looks great Brain. Solid design and a quit large engine!
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Thanks Alex---It is the biggest engine I have made. Trying out a few new things and using a lot of things I learned from making smaller engines.---Brian
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This morning we have valves. I haven't parted off the large diameter yet, as I will use it for a handle when lapping the valves into the valve cages. Now I have an admission to make--Last week when I was machining the pivot pins for the main rocker, I ended up with about 3" of brass rod left. I said to myself "Ah-ha--I'll keep this bit of brass to make valve cages from. I have looked hi and lo all day yesterday for that piece of brass, and it has disappeared. I think the fairies have been to my shop. I do have a piece of 3/4" brass that I can use, but it just kills me turning so much uber expensive brass into chips!!!
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looking great.. in my shop that would have been groat the floor monster eating the part,, he likes things you need..
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The gas tank is finished and the valve cages have been made. I have to make a new valve seat cutting tool because I want to put the chamfer into the valve cages before I press and Loctite them into the cylinder head. The hole thru the side of the cages will be drilled thru the cylinder head and the cages after they have been assembled together.
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I'm getting right down to the short strokes on this engine. Have to machine a crankshaft and a couple of cams (which are the same). It's been so long since I machined a cam that I will have to study notes I made on cutting a cam using the Chuck Fellows method. Right now I'm undecided about the crankshaft, whether to machine from solid or make a "built up" crank. Looking at the engine, I see that I also need rocker arms and tappets, and the two 90 degree elbows that screw into the cylinder head. I would like to make the elbows from brass, but I don't have any brass stock to make them from. The flywheels are going to be something "special", and right at the moment I don't have any stock to make them from. It's plain that after my two weeks of "social distancing" I'm going to have to risk it and go see my metal supplier.
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A few years ago when I built the Rockerblock engine, I did some serious studying on how to cut a cam in my milling machine. This is not the incremental version as used by Malcolm Stride, but a totally different method based on a how to video posted by chuck Fellows. It does incorporate all of the math from the cam drawing, but uses a combination of rotary table and full depth plunge cuts with the milling machine. It is very fast and simple if you can get your head around how the set-up works. This morning I opened an old thread I had created about using this method of cutting a cam, and read a bunch of notes I made about it at the time. I set up everything according to the notes I had made and began to cut. About half way thru, my set-up slipped and I lost my reference point. I decided to continue to the end and see what conclusions I could draw from the way I had my set up. The cam was truly screwed up, but there is enough to show that if my set-up hadn't slipped, it would have given a properly shaped cam with radiused cam flanks.
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Sad that the cam moved :( I need to make another camshaft for my twin somewhen in the future. I will be interested to see how this method works :ThumbsUp:
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And--Voila!! When your set-up doesn't slip, you get a perfect cam with the proper flank radius. Now I get to do it one more time because I need two good ones.
(http://imageshack.com/a/img924/9691/qWqBYS.jpg)
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:ThumbsUp:
Looks good Brian!
John
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Brian,
That's a good looking cam. Unfortunate that your first ones set up moved.
Art
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Today I made two cams and two tappets and a larger valve seating tool from 01 steel, and flame hardened them, then quenched them in some dirty old motor oil I keep just for that purpose. It certainly doesn't look like much, but I spent most of the day doing it. The two cams are positioned on the cam-shaft, in the cam box, and the two lifters are "posed" in the top of the bronze lifter bushings. You are not going to see the larger valve seating tool because it is really, really ugly.--but it does the job I needed it for.
(https://imagizer.imageshack.com/img922/1782/w4O7Xd.jpg)
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I spent this morning working on things that mostly don't show. I lapped the valves into their seats in the valve cages, and cut off the "handles" so that the valves are now finished. I opened up a bit more clearance on the inside floor of the cam box to let both cams fully rotate without hitting something. It doesn't show in the picture, but I realized that I needed to make a shaft collar for the far end of the camshaft to keep it from floating longitudinally. I drilled and tapped both gears for set screws. I had painted the gas tank and the rocker pivot support with "semi-gloss" black paint for a little contrast, and reassembled them. I have enough brass to make a pair of nice rocker arms. I was going to drive across town and buy some 1/2" brass bar to make the large elbows that screw into the sides of the cylinder head, but I may rethink that. I may just make them out of steel.
(https://imagizer.imageshack.com/img922/3842/mvGutz.jpg)
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Todays offering is a set of valve springs and keepers in place, as well as two brass rocker arms. The sharpie pen is just wedged in there to hold the rocker arms up. They are slightly "tail heavy" and I haven't yet made the connecting link that fits between the tappets and the end of the rocker arms. Don't be afraid to say Hi people. I know you are looking, because my post count keeps going up. I like to hear from you. This "social distancing" thing is starting to make me feel like Rapunzel locked in her stone tower, and I don't have any hair to let down.---Brian
(https://imagizer.imageshack.com/img922/9803/Jc5ppx.jpg)
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Looks good Brian :ThumbsUp: but I'm not sure I understand why you will use a linked connection to the cam-follower ?
Oh and I'm not sure I could climb up "your hair" even if I wanted too :mischief:
Best wishes
Per
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Hi Brian, yes we are all still here and watching! I don't chime in that often since I don't know as much about IC as EC engines, but still find it interesting.
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Hi Chris, good to hear from you. Admiral--it isn't really a linked connection. It is connected to the tail of the rocker with a pivot pin, but the bottom end of it is "free standing" in the tappet.
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Brian,
Things are looking good the cam and rockers turned out well. I bet you don't notice a pea under your mattress either. I haven't heard much about Canada & whats going on with the Covid 19 but things are getting pretty serious here. I expect you have to avoid the mall now for your walk.
Art
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Art--it is bad here now. Many infected, quite a few dead. Wife and I are "social distancing", (Which isn't a great difference from the way we normally live) but we miss seeing the grand-children. I no longer walk in the mall, just on the roads around the sub division up behind our property. The bush trails are my favourite, but they are 8" deep in solid ice, too slippery for me.
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It is connected to the tail of the rocker with a pivot pin, but the bottom end of it is "free standing" in the tappet.
Ahh that makes perfect sense now - thank you for explaining :ThumbsUp:
I can see the problem with not being able to do your walks inside now the weather isn't nice for walking outside and being around other people isn't really an option too :thinking: I do hope that you find an useable solution to this problem too :cheers:
Per
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Today I made funky little brass elbows. They are two part construction, silver soldered together. I did give them a soak in my citric acid solution, and scrubbed them with a small brass bristled brush, but I see in the picture that they still have a pinkish glow in spots. I will mix up a fresh batch of solution tomorrow and give them a bit more soak time. Tomorrow I will drill and tap the cylinder head and drill the exhaust and intake ports thru the cylinder head and thru the valve cages which are now loctited and lightly pressed into place. Every day I'm getting closer and closer to crankshaft time.
(http://imageshack.com/a/img922/8301/ik7fmI.jpg)
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Today as I was making the brass elbows, I found myself wondering "what keeps the weight of the muffler or carburetor from making the elbows turn down, or "droop" when the engine heats up." There is no way that I can machine threads so that the elbows tighten up and "lock" in exactly the right position.----So--I went back to my 3D model for a closer look this evening. Hot Damn!!! I'm smarter than I thought. I had taken 1/4" thin hex nuts and retapped them for 3/8"-16 to use as lock nuts on the elbows to keep them positioned properly.
(https://imagizer.imageshack.com/img923/8779/C7Vd2c.jpg)
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Brian, I take it that the thread on those elbows is 3/8-16? Not a tapered thread? I ask because I had wondered about threading these connections, but didn't know how well the intake needed to seal.
Sent from my Lenovo TB-8504F using Tapatalk
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I don't use tapered threads. It is very important that the joints don't leak. I coat the threads with green loctite before assembly. This totally stops any leakage, yet is still easily disassembled.
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Thanks!
Sent from my Lenovo TB-8504F using Tapatalk
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Brian, does the green loctite you use have a number? There are several that are green. Thanks!
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Loctite #638--I use it everywhere. It is the only Loctite product that I have. it is wonderful. Today sees the engine completely assembled, except for crankshaft and flywheels. I have to make up some proper pivot pins with circlips for the rocker arms, but after I do that the crankshaft will be next. I am well pleased with things so far.---Brian
(http://imageshack.com/a/img921/2746/aaNnRb.jpg)
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Brian,
Are you going to make a built up crank, or turn it from solid.
Art
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Art--I think that I'm going to make a built up crankshaft.---Brian
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Art--I think that I'm going to make a built up crankshaft.---Brian
Certainly a lot less ‘excitement’ in a built up crank :embarassed:
Still following along :popcorn: :popcorn:
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Yesterday my rings came in from Debolt. They look good. They are exactly 0.094" thick. The grooves I cut in my piston with my 0.094" parting off tool are only 0.088" wide. Not sure how that happened, but it should be an easy fix. The rings have a staggered lap joint in them, which I didn't know would be there, but I'm sure they will probably work okay. Some horrible economics are involved with these rings. Debolt charges $8 each USA money for these rings. Change that to Canadian dollars, pay tax on it, then pay for shipping. Ends up costing me $56 Canadian. This morning I machined and installed an ignition cam. I went to make proper pivot shafts for the rocker arms, but I'm having an issue with concentricity. I checked my lathe head-shaft and chuck, and it has 0.003 TIR, same as it had when I bought it. The main chuck will only close down to 0.150", so I'm holding an extra smaller chuck in the main chuck. I'm getting crazy concentricity results and I'm not sure why, but will probably figure it out after posting this. As of today, I've been machining on this engine for 30 days straight. I may soon take a break and start setting up my TIG welder.
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Every time I make a built up crankshaft, it goes a little differently. The only definite thing I have taken away from previous built up cranks, is to always make the main shaft out of one long piece and then mill out the area between the crank throws as an absolute last step. The other absolute "must" is to somehow attach the two throws together, either with indestructible glue or a dab of mig weld before drilling and reaming the holes. I have never, ever had any luck gluing parts together prior to machining. The glue always fails at some critical point right in the middle of machining. I have far more faith in mig weld. I do have the material on hand to make this, and I really don't want to be running around town to buy a piece of bar large enough to turn this from solid.
(http://imageshack.com/a/img921/5546/SSNfzc.jpg)
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Now you have a TIG welder - I would have thought that it would be a much better option as you don't need to apply any material as such - but just "hit it with the Arc for a few seconds" .... :thinking:
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--I don't really know. I know that any stick welding or oxy acetylene welding creates point stresses on cold rolled steel and makes it move all over the place. That is why large weldments get welded, then stress relieved, then machined as a final step. Even on small parts like this crankshaft, it will make the metal move quite dramatically. I suppose I could make the crankshaft out of oversize stock, then weld it, then machine it. I will let others with more experience give their idea about this.---Brian
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I'm just a little burned out on machining, so today after machining the ignition cam and the proper pivot pins for the rocker arms I stopped and devoted the afternoon to my new TIG welder. I have collected all the necessary things like a cylinder of argon, a "flow meter"a package of filler rods, and a a pack of 3/32" tungsten electrodes. I had made the necessary changes to my electrical supply, and I have power to the machine now. That took up most of my afternoon. I don't think I'm going to weld the crankshaft. I have a pretty good feel for how metal reacts to "press fits" and I have a couple of undersize reamers for the .375" and the 0.500" shafts. I will probably make the crankshaft tomorrow and do a bit more commentary about what I'm doing as I make it.
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I know that any stick welding or oxy acetylene welding creates point stresses on cold rolled steel and makes it move all over the place.
Point taken :embarassed: All the cranks (not many) I've seen that has been welded where very hard metal that has at least a surface hardening. Using the TIG on such a crank didn't destroy the hardning, but prevented the crank parts to rotate relative to each other => making a race crank out off a stock crank - (not quite, but an important part off doing so).
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Ok Brian, here goes.
First of all don't weld the crank. It will distort and the time it takes to get it realigned isn't worth it when there are other options available.
When I built large hit and miss engines the crankshafts were larger than I wanted to machine from one piece so I fabricated them. This is my procedure.
I use drill rod for the shafts. For the main shaft cut it to length and center drill each end making sure that the center is concentric with the shaft. (accurate collet or 4 jaw chuck)
Make your cheeks from one piece of stock. Cut the outside dimensions to size but have enough stock to to saw in 2 when finished. Drill and ream the holes preferably so that the stock just slides though.
Mark the sides of the block however you want, dimple, scratch etc. Saw in two and finish the cheeks to the proper width. Now put a small chamfer on the insides of the main shaft holes and outside of the throw holes. On the main shaft holes file a couple of small notches along the sides of the hole, parallel to the axis. These notches and chamfers are for silver solder.
Assembly prior to silver soldering. If the drill rod slides freely through the cheeks put a small dimple on the shaft where it will be inside one of the cheeks, just to hold it in place.
Flux each joint. Stand the crank on end and solder the inside joint of the main shaft (bottom) and the outside of the throw (top) The reason for just chamfering one side of each shaft hole is so that the cleanup won't be where the rod or main bearing is.
Grab the hot crank with pliers and flip over. Now solder the other two joints. The notches that you filed in the cheeks will allow the solder to wick through and add strength to the joint.
When both joints are soldered lightly play the torch flame over the whole crank, not to soldering temperature but just so that the whole crank is hot and will cool evenly.
When cool file the sides of the cheeks so that they are parallel. Use mikes to make sure. Now saw the center piece of the main shaft out. Put the crank in the mill vise and carefully mill the remaining stock from the mainshaft. It's better to leave it a little proud and file it flush with the cheeks than to dig in with the end mill and have to file the whole thing.
Clean up the whole crank and mount it between center on your lathe. Dead center in the headstock and tailstock if you have two of them. If not use a live center in the tailstock. Just engage the tailstock ever so lightly to the crank, just enough to hold it in place. Now indicate the main shaft. Generally if there is any warpage it won't be sideways but longitudinally. If the indicator reading is high towards the throw side lightly loosen the tailstock and using a large flat blade screwdriver and piece of shim lightly pry the cheeks apart. Just go lightly the first time then reindicate the shaft until you get a feel for how much pressure it takes to move the cheeks. Repeat until the crank is straight. If the crank indicates high toward the main shaft put a piece of stock between the cheeks and on the throw and push down. You don't have to loosen the tailstock for this process. (Cranks will get shorter) Again go lightly until you see how much pressure it takes to move it.
If perchance the crank has warped sideways cut a packing to go between the cheeks and clamp it in place with a small clamp over the outside of the cheeks. Loosen the tailstock a touch and press on the cheeks over the mainshaft until it's straight.
It reads like a lot of work but in reality it only takes ten minutes to accomplish.
With this process you don't need to drill for pins and peen them and file them.
gbritnell
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Thank you George. That is a very good method for building up crankshafts.---Brian
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Okay Guys, hang on tight--Here we go. The main crankshaft body is being made from 1/2" cold rolled steel, which comes in at nominally about 0.001" undersize. It is cut to finished length in the picture. The 3/8" cold rolled steel also comes in at about 0.001" undersize and is not yet cut to finished length. The two pieces of 3/4" x 1/2" cold rolled flatbar have been mig welded together at each end, and then both bored and reamed to 0.0015" undersize, on the correct centers. The pieces of bar are a bit too long at each end right now---that is to allow cutting away the welded ends and finishing them to the correct length. These pieces of flatbar were not held in the milling vice for drilling and reaming, as I never really trust my vice to hold things perfectly square and not canted a bit. They were held to the mill bed with toe clamps and a piece of 1/2" sacrificial aluminum under them for the drilling and reaming operation. After I eat some lunch I will show you what comes next.
(https://imagizer.imageshack.com/img922/1492/ysPHBP.jpg)
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The two pieces of flatbar have been trimmed to length, by trimming and finishing one end while the other end was still welded together. then the second welded end was removed, being very careful to keep both pieces identical. They were then match marked so I could keep the inward facing sides together. Then they were taken out to my large belt sander to have the corners rounded as required. That corner rounding is a clearance requirement so the crankshaft doesn't hit the underside of the cam box when it rotates. Now I'm off for my "Fat mans walk", will post more when I come back.---Brian
(https://imagizer.imageshack.com/img922/9484/oDT4nB.jpg)
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:popcornsmall:
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This is the magic part. This is what gives me the exact gap I require between the crankshaft cheek plates.
(https://imagizer.imageshack.com/img922/7559/HPfzTZ.jpg)
(https://imagizer.imageshack.com/img921/5273/AydOKw.jpg)
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Things never go quite as I had planned, but they go, nontheless. When I went to assemble all of my parts, the 1/2" dia. shaft was nowhere near as hard a press into the cheek plates as I had hoped for. What to do, what to do. I couldn't make the hole in the plates any smaller, but I could make the diameter of the shaft a little larger. I set the shaft up in my lathe and knurled the area where the cheek plates set. This "grew" the shaft, from 0.499 up to 0.509" diameter. I don't have any kind of press except for a 3 ton manual arbor press and my bench-top vice. I coated the knurled area with 638 Loctite, and applied lots of brute force via my heavy hammer and things assembled just fine. Mushroomed the shaft end a little, but that cleaned up in the lathe. Right now I am not seeing any run-out in the assembled shaft, but the true story will come out tomorrow when I cut the 1/2" shaft away between the cheek plates. If it works, I'm golden. If it doesn't work, I'm out two or three hours of work. I'm going to drill the cheek plates and shafts now for the 0.094" pins, insert them, and let everything set up over night. I'll let you know the results in the morning.
(https://imagizer.imageshack.com/img924/1192/wgPa1Y.jpg)
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Well sir!!!--I am very pleased with this. Crankshaft all cleaned up, and with one end in the lathe chuck, the other end registers a 0.003" total indicated run-out. That is equal to any of the one piece crankshafts that I have machined from solid. Crankshaft fits where it is supposed to go, and goes round and round. Oh Happy day!!!
(https://imagizer.imageshack.com/img922/2386/bTCG3I.jpg)
(https://imagizer.imageshack.com/img924/5077/Jxg2Cu.jpg)
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Excellent! :popcorn: :popcorn: :popcorn:
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Not long until we hear it run!
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I just tried to upload a video to YouTube.---It loads to about 34% and just hangs there. Anybody know if YouTube is having a problem?
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Brian,
Good looking crank. I don't know about you tube but Post Image gave me a "Server is under maintenance, sorry for inconvenience. ETA ~1 day" message so who knows. Maybe its time to sit back relax and have a cold one. :DrinkPint:
Art
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This morning I test fitted the rings into the cylinder. The rings have a stepped gap, however when I had a ring pressed into the cylinder and held it up to a bright light, there was still clearance for the ring gap to close a little bit more if it expands with heat. I was satisfied with the fit of both rings. I set my piston up in the lathe 3 jaw chuck and very carefully opened up the 0.086" wide gap to about 0.095" to accept the 0.094 thick rings. Any time I cut a groove in aluminum, it raises a shoulder on each side of the groove. Not much of a shoulder, but enough to keep an already tight fitting piston from sliding into the cylinder. Knowing that, and knowing that a few people were alarmed at the thought of a tight fitting aluminum piston in a cast iron cylinder, I walked a piece of 220 grit garnet paper back and forth on the piston to knock down the shoulders and take about 0.0005" off the overall piston diameter. the rings went onto the pistons with no problem. I had the cylinder off the engine, so set it up in my 3 jaw and machined a 15 degree "lead" taper into the bottom to aid in installing the rings. everything went together fine. In about 15 minutes I'm going to make a head gasket and install it, and then the engine will be finished except for the flywheels.
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The engine is finished---except for flywheels. There may a significant time span before I get the flywheels finished. I am now turning my attention to the flywheels, which will very probably be fabricated with my new TIG welder. Thank you, to those who have followed this thread, which was started 32 days ago. :pinkelephant: :pinkelephant:
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Looking forward to seeing how the welding goes. Have you had experience/classes in TIG welding? Something I'd like to learn, will likely take classes at the local welding shop someday - they have a large classroom building behind their store.
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Very little experience with TIG. Many, many years of experience with stick, oxy-acetylene, and MIG.
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Brian, I got hold of a bottle of the Loctite 638 as you use, I like it! Much thicker than the 603, great for spots that have a little more gap. Thanks!
:cheers:
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And this is how I spent the last two days. My welding cart which previously held only the mig has been widened about 9" and now holds both the mig and the tig. I hardly ever get to actually fabricate things any more, so I enjoyed doing it.
(https://imagizer.imageshack.com/img921/9875/CwshXN.jpg)
(https://imagizer.imageshack.com/img924/4627/vvfM1q.jpg)
(https://imagizer.imageshack.com/img923/8407/7HuQoU.jpg)
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:ThumbsUp:
Nice setup!
Looking forward to see how those flywheel turn out!
John
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I woke up this morning thinking about how to fixture the hubs of the flywheels to cut the 45 degree slots in them. Sometimes if I model what I am thinking about, it helps to clarify things. It looks to me that if I make the yellow fixture, I can hold it in my vice and just crank the mill table back and forth in the X axis to cut the slots. I will have to drill a set of holes in the face of the hubs to register them on the yellow fixture so that they don't move while being cut.
(https://imagizer.imageshack.com/img922/1592/8y7BmK.jpg)
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And that, my friends, is slicker than whale poop!! Here you see one of the finished hubs by itself, and with a nice blade array using a bunch of my parallels. I just wish I had a 1/8" wide slitting sawblade. This was made using a 1/16" saw blade, but I had to go around once to make the slots 1/16", then around once with the blade offset 1/32" then again with the sawblade offset the other way by 1/32". This was far less work than I anticipated. I will make the second hub tomorrow.
(http://imageshack.com/a/img922/4/uSc75m.jpg)
(http://imageshack.com/a/img921/8580/tVmlxf.jpg)
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While I will take your word for it on how slick whale poop is (dont want to know how you know :o ) that is a very slick setup for the hub!
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Brian,
Can't sleep so I am perusing the mem site. I have to say the hub turned out pretty slick, pun intended. Looks like it should pull some air across the engine. And will be a great test for the new welder.
Art
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I just wish I had a 1/8" wide slitting sawblade.
If you had turned your fixture on it's side you could have used an 1/8" milling cutter,
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This morning I put on my mask ,Purelled my hands, and drove to my metal suppliers who had set my material outside their door. Collected my material, Purelled my hands again, wiped down my trucks steering wheel with antiseptic wipes, and drove home again. Got home, washed my hands for 30 seconds with warm water and dishsoap. My hands have never been this clean. I look goofy wearing a mask. The 1" x 1/8" cold rolled flatbar is exactly what I asked for. The tube is 6" o.d. but the wall is only 7/16", not the 9/16" that I had wanted, but it will do. I could die of old age before my bandsaw would cut thru that pipe, so I will part off "rings" of material 3/4" long. I think I will weld a flatbar across one end with a hole for a live center and hold the other end in my lathe chuck with reversed jaws. You can't cut all the way thru in the lathe or bad things will happen. DAMHIKT. You can however, cut almost thru and then complete the cut on the bandsaw. This was the last material I will require to build this engine, and by the time I buy a set of ignition points and a condenser, it's going to get very close to the $200 mark. The steady-rest is which came with my lathe is way too small to use--looks like it will only open up enough to take 3" diameter stock.
(https://imagizer.imageshack.com/img922/623/cdSXxn.jpg)
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Nice big chunk o metal - wash it too!
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"You can't cut all the way thru in the lathe or bad things will happen. DAMHIKT."
Yep. Been there & done that. Many years ago in my toolmaking days I was parting off a large chunk of stock in a lathe & the offcut got jammed between a Chuck jaw & the compound, stopping the machine instantly. Trashed a couple gears, a splined shaft, & broke the compound in half. Only damaged the machine luckily. Months later at Christmas time my co-workers gave me
a large wrapped box, inside were the gears welded to the shaft & mounted to a stand with an engraved plate that said "right about there". :facepalm: Sheesh...
John
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"You can't cut all the way thru in the lathe or bad things will happen. DAMHIKT."
Yep. Been there & done that. Many years ago in my toolmaking days I was parting off a large chunk of stock in a lathe & the offcut got jammed between a Chuck jaw & the compound, stopping the machine instantly. Trashed a couple gears, a splined shaft, & broke the compound in half. Only damaged the machine luckily. Months later at Christmas time my co-workers gave me
a large wrapped box, inside were the gears welded to the shaft & mounted to a stand with an engraved plate that said "right about there". :facepalm: Sheesh...
John
:ROFL:
Gotta love co-workers! Though sometimes its the Dilbert spelling, cow-orkers!
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Nice big chunk o metal - wash it too!
Naw - just throw it in the heat treat oven. 24 hours at 1500°F / 815°C ought to do the trick. :)
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I'm thinking forward to the next steps in this flywheel fabrication exercise. In a perfect world, I can hold the outside rim (6" tube parted off to 3/4" wide) in my lathe 3 jaw chuck. I can slide the hub (with slots) over a piece of 1/2" cold rolled steel and hold it in my tailstock chuck. This will guarantee absolute concentricity. I could then cut the flatbar "fan blades" to a perfect precision fit between the hub and the outer rim. Then tackweld both ends of the flatbar to the hub and the outer rim.---This sounds good, but their are some fairly sophisticated controls in the electrics of my lathe, and I think that any kind of electric welding would probably damage my lathes circuitry.----Or---I can counterbore a 1 1/2" hole into a large piece of 6" wide aluminum flatbar and in the same set-up counterbore a 6" diameter recess to center the outer flywheel rim. Have to think some more on that, because the blades are the full 3/4" depth of the hub and outer rim. I don't have a piece of 6" wide aluminum anyways, and I am not going to venture out into "virus country" again. I do have a 10" faceplate which I might be able to do something with. Any good suggestions will be entertained---
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Brian, would the holding fixture have to be metal? Maybe you could do the same thing with a wood block(s) - plywood turned to discs/rings and screwed together for the rim to sit in. Since you are just tacking the parts, there wont be enough heat in the assembly to set the wood on fire. The wood parts could be turned to precise shape on the lathe.
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Okay---I'm having an idea. If I mount my faceplate on the lathe, then I can use 1/2" hex bolts thru the existing slots and use a dial indicator to center the outer rim perfectly on the faceplate.---Then dismount the faceplate from the lathe, and turn a center spigot that is a precision fit into the faceplate center hole, with a 1/2" diameter nose on it to fit the hub onto.
(https://imagizer.imageshack.com/img924/8522/5C6kxc.jpg)
(https://imagizer.imageshack.com/img922/9233/vIjSUw.jpg)
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This would let me mount the hub on the turned center spigot, and the outer rim and hub would be perfectly concentric. Then I can fit the "blades" into place and get a decent tack on each one. This method allows me to do any welding or tacking with the faceplate dismounted from the lathe completely.
(https://imagizer.imageshack.com/img924/8144/sJZIAg.jpg)
(https://imagizer.imageshack.com/img924/2606/StL80Z.jpg)
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Chris--Thank you for your suggestion. I thought of using wood, but then this idea of the using the faceplate came along and I ran with it.---Brian
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That worked out very well. A lot of moaning and groaning from the lathe, occasional shots of cutting oil, and a very slow advance. I left about 1/16" wall which I will cut with my bandsaw.
(https://imagizer.imageshack.com/img923/2023/DCKamm.jpg)
(https://imagizer.imageshack.com/img921/5107/mjQbCP.jpg)
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:popcorn: :popcorn: :popcorn:
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And that is about as far as I'm going to take things today. Tomorrow I will work on getting things all set up on my faceplate.
(https://imagizer.imageshack.com/img923/5462/ILHoAM.jpg)
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I don't think I will use any continuous welds. This flywheel is self contained and the radial forces will all concentrate on the outer rim. Too much weld will distort things. For now I am considering a weld on each side of the blades where they contact the hub, and a weld on each side where the blades contact the rim. So, each individual blade will only have four small welds, one at each of the four corners of the blade.
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In my effort to "avoid the virus" I'm trying to not to go out anywhere to buy more material. I had one big cube of aluminum 3" square, so today I set it up in my lathes 4 jaw and turned three diameters on it, all in one set-up. One diameter is a "precision fit" into the faceplate mounting hole, one is a precision fit into the 1/2" bore inner flywheel hub, and the third diameter is slightly larger than the hole in the faceplate to keep the plug from "pulling through" the faceplate. The small diameter is drilled and tapped on center for a 5/16" bolt, which holds the inner flywheel hub tight against the faceplate. I'm not a huge fan of setting things up in my 4 jaw, but I can do it when I need to.
(https://imagizer.imageshack.com/img924/143/DY2HZ5.jpg)
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This didn't go quite as I had planned, but it was very close. I was having trouble getting the rim centered, so I made up a disc with a reamed 1/2" center hole and an outer diameter that was a precision fit into the flywheel outer rim. I put a piece of cold rolled 1/2" diameter in the tailstock chuck, mounted my centering plate on that, set the flywheel rim over the centering plate, then cranked it in flush against the faceplate. I had to make up a couple of "grip plates" to hold the outer rim in place. After I was done, I backed the tailstock and centering plate away and checked the inner diameter with a dial indicator. It had a total indicated run-out of about 0.040" so I spent a half hour tappy tappy tapping on the rim until the best reading I could get was about .015" total indicated runout. The outside and inside of this piece of tube has never been machined so I'm not certain how concentric the inner and outer diameters are. The next step will be to dismount the faceplate from the lathe with the outer flywheel rim still in place, then use the fixture I machined yesterday to hold the flywheel hub perfectly centered. Then I start cutting the "vanes" to length. In a perfect world, the vanes would all be exactly the same length, but it seldom works out that simple.
(https://imagizer.imageshack.com/img924/6381/gtr6wA.jpg)
(https://imagizer.imageshack.com/img921/9494/f8VqKX.jpg)
(https://imagizer.imageshack.com/img922/7923/y6qpF5.jpg)
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Brian,
I think I'm glad you're making that flywheel instead of me. But then again I'd probably tried to make it from solid. Those ragged edges would make me nervous. But then again the non hot glued nut while turning my crank probably did the same for you, I guess we're even. Looks good though. My inclination would be to weld the fins to the hub and turn the OD to fit the rim.
Art
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Hi Art--Glad you're looking and commenting. One last and final concentricity test before I start cutting "blades". I have this "sweep indicator" that I seldom use, but this is a set-up that best suits it. First sweep the hole in the center of the faceplate and move the mill bed until I get a zero reading all the way 360 degrees around the faceplate hole. Then move the "finger" up to the inside diameter of the tube and sweep again, tapping the tube a little bit this way, a little bit that way, until I get a zero reading on a full 360 degree sweep. Good to go now, today I will cut blades to suit. Unfortunately, the 1" blade width, as purchased is just a bit wide. I have to take about .035" off one side to get the exact width so that the blade will not extend out beyond the edges of the hub. I will probably put all 6 blades in the mill vice and mill them all at the same time. I have been doing everything I can in the machine shop, where it is warm, but I can't put the welding chore of any longer. So--later this afternoon or maybe tomorrow morning, I will move my act out into the garage. I am going to make up about 10 different "practice weldments " until I get some experience with my new TIG, and then I will tackle the flywheel.
(https://imagizer.imageshack.com/img921/5354/U1p8kl.jpg)
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So, after almost a full day dicking around and getting things as perfect as I can, we have number 1 flywheel ready to weld. I have tried to space things out so that the warmer weather got here before the need to weld. It was 58 degrees F here today, which is not exactly as warm as I would have liked, but you work with what you've got. You will notice that the corners of the fan blades have all been chamfered about 3/32" x 45 degrees. That gives me room for a little bit of filler rod, without any of it sticking out past the edge of the flywheel. So---Tomorrow morning I practice my tig welding, tomorrow afternoon I weld the first flywheel. Wish me luck!!---Brian
(https://imagizer.imageshack.com/img921/9365/BAuszE.jpg)
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:ThumbsUp:
Excellent! Good luck!
:popcorn:
John
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Brian,
Well I guess we're ahead of you a bit, as it's 73 degrees here today. And may the force be with you, while welding tomorrow.
Art
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YOWZAHH!!!--I tig welded something!! Okay, I know it isn't impressive, but it is my first weld with my new tig welder. The documentation and instructions that come with this unit are worse than horrible. It's not Chinglish, but whoever wrote it, English was certainly not their mother language. The two actual "welds" are fusion welds at 125 Amps, with a 3/32" 2% thoriated tungsten. No filler rod was used. I have already figured out that I don't care for the foot pedal control. My machine has a "high tension start" function, with a push button on the actual torch head to start the arc going. I am amazed at how hot the arc gets, so quickly. I have been watching "How to tig weld" videos from Weld.com, and they are very informative and well done. I have also started a binder in which I write down everything I learn or discover about the tig welding process. I think I need more than half a days practice before welding anything that is going to be visible, like the flywheel/fan blades. I had hoped to get more practice in tomorrow, but the high temperature for the day is going to be only 2 degrees Celsius. I don't want to freeze to death learning to tig weld.
(https://imagizer.imageshack.com/img922/3553/P7hefJ.jpg)
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This morning was the first time I actually installed all of the required hoses and lines to the welder. The damned thing is like an octopus. I spent the rest of the morning fabricating even more brackets on the welding cart to hold all the various wires and hoses. Then I went for my walk, then I actually dared a practice session with the welder. The weld you see was done at 125 amps and bypassing the foot pedal, which would have been fine with my old Lincoln buzz box stick welder, but seemed unreasonably hot with the tig. At a full 125 amps, everything gets so hot so quickly that it is scary. I realize that if I had the foot pedal hooked up I could ease up on it and cut the amps down to a more controllable level. Learning--learning--
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Brian,
I have to say that my grandfather was a welder. My mom used to tell stories about moving to Quincy, Massachusetts during the war, while her dad was to old for military service, welders were in high demand. I don't know which shipyard he worked in but he (to the best of my knowledge/memory) worked on the carrier Hornet and some destroyer. one of the stories mom used to tell is that they had a flat and while dad was patching the inner tube she was walking along the gravel and found a coin. She was terribly disappointed when it was only 2 pennies worth and not a nickel. Later back in Wisconsin he started a welding business & had a reputation for being able to weld anything from any position. One of the stores on the capitol square used to call him to work on their elevator paying him double time to come in on a Sunday. I now release the soapbox for the next person.
Art
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Hi Brian,
I think about my TIG torch as a tiny tiny gas torch - heat just flies out of the end but to a tiny, tiny area. Weld pool will be only 2-4mm across so a lot of energy in a small space. The foot pedal does help but it takes a while to connect it up in your head so that it becomes instinctive. I tend to use it unless I am moving about zipping up box section where the settings don’t change and moving the pedal is a chore. Keep at it practice makes good.
All the best,
Martin.
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This morning I made a run for it---Put on my mask, Purelled my hands, and drove to the wine store.---Wine store was closed. Decided to get points and condenser for the new engine, went to PartSource, and it was closed. I have conflicting information about tig welding. One YouTube spot has a man saying how very important it is to wear gloves to protect your hands from harmful rays. Another YouTube site has guys with bare arms covered in tatoos giving instruction on how to tig weld. Having suffered some bad ray burns from arc welding in a tee shirt, in my youth, I decided to stop at my welding store and buy some tig gloves. Gasoline is cheaper right now than it has been in 20 years, so I filled up my truck with gas.---$53 to fill the tank.--It usually costs about $88. I don't feel a lot like working today, so other than a bit of tig practice I'm going to have a lazy day. Good wife has decided to accompany me on my "Fat mans walk" now that all the glaciers have retreated from my wood trails across the road. She took this picture of me yesterday on our walk.
(https://imagizer.imageshack.com/img922/3033/YDpDut.jpg)
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You do need to protect against the UV. The. The burns sting for ages. I ended up getting a polo neck just to cover the gap below the helmet. No idea how the pundits get away with it.
All the best,
Martin
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I have never, ever welded without gloves ... and with all the sparks and hot bb's of stick welding, I've never welded without leathers or at least a heavy cotton long-sleeve shirt or sweatshirt.
But I do have to confess to doing "just a quick TIG weld" wearing short sleeves - TIG is so much less messy that it is tempting to think it will be fine. Gloves protecting my hands, and of course a helmet - I absolutely shudder when I see videos of folks doing even tack welds without a helmet!! - but nothing protecting my forearms. I am happy to report no permanent damage that I know of, but I sure did have quite an odd-looking sun burn ...
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Brian,
That looks like a very nice woods to walk in. I must say that with the beard you look much more like Santa than when I saw you last summer.
Art
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I have got an inverter welder and have thought about getting the TIG accessories for it. I will be watching your progress with interest :ThumbsUp: :ThumbsUp: :wine1:
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The music never stops---TIG practice is going slowly. I decided that I had sufficient material to make up a fixture to hold the second flywheel/fan for welding, so I did. There is a fellow one of my forums calling himself "Tungsten Dipper". Lets just say that with my TIG progress, I have a full understanding of his name now!!
(https://imagizer.imageshack.com/img924/1800/6RHCZI.jpg)
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Todays message concerns ergonomics. I find that if I hold the tig torch in my right hand, I can run a decent bead IF I brace my right wrist with my left hand. That is fine for running a bead with no filler rod, but when holding filler rod in my left hand, my right hand shakes like a toad eating chain lightning.---So, back for a closer look at the Youtube videos.--Ah Ha--The good videos shown by weld.com shows the instructor working with a much higher table, on which he can rest his right wrist. I wasn't about to build a higher table, but since I am in "learning mode", I can make my existing table a little higher. That is what you see here. A temporary "table riser" made from a few pieces of 2" x 8". This raises the height of my work area 6 1/2" higher than the original table top. Now I can hold the torch steady by bracing my right wrist on the temporary table top while my left hand holds the filler rod.
(https://imagizer.imageshack.com/img924/3690/EeO5j9.jpg)
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I just finished what may be the last bit of machining for Thumper. This is the starter hub which bolts to one of the flywheels. As of right now I have no excuse to keep me away from my new TIG welder.
(http://imageshack.com/a/img921/6548/R8iNGA.jpg)
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The new tig welder calls for a lot of coordination. Hold the tungsten 1/8" off the surface of the steel, move your hand at a constant speed, and hold the foot pedal down as far as it will go. If the tungsten touches the puddle of molten metal, then you have to stop and remove the tungsten and regrind the point on it. If your hand doesn't move at a constant speed, the width of the melted area changes (you want the width to be constant). If you let up on the foot pedal, the arc goes out. These were all done with no filler rod. The plate is 304 stainless (because that is what I had). I did a few welds with filler rod, and the most surprising thing for me is how quickly this thing eats filler rod. It consumes filler rod at least twice as fast as oxy acetylene welding.
(http://imageshack.com/a/img924/6229/Zndfjk.jpg)
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Brian, those look like promising practice runs to me - reasonably straight and even, way better than my first efforts!
A couple of comments. I am a bit puzzled / concerned about your comment that you're having to floor the pedal. You should be able to maintain an arc whether full blast or just barely going - that's the whole point of the control that TIG gives you. If that's not working ... you may need to check the settings. Often there is a setting to choose between a torch switch (which is purely on or off) and a pedal - maybe you're set on the torch switch setting, so the variable control of the pedal is not functioning - ?
Also, about moving your hand at a constant speed - yes and no. The master TIG welders that I've seen always use a rhythmic motion - a three-step process that is repeated over and over: 1) advance the torch a skinch, 2) pause and heat the puddle, 3) dip the rod (often while pulling the torch out just a bit to avoid contaminating the tungsten). This rhythm may occur as much as several times per second, or as slow as once or twice per second, depending on the thickness and type of material. When done right (as I only occasionally manage to do!), it creates that "stack of dimes" look that is typically associated with TIG welding.
There are other techniques / motions, such as walking the cup, but the one I've described above is the one I've seen 95% of the time.
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There are two adjustment dials on the foot pedal. One is for maximum and one is for minimum. If I set the maximum for 185 amps, I end up with too much current and burn holes. so--I set the maximum for 125 amps I haven't set the minimum dial, that is probably why the arc goes out if I let off the pedal completely.--Still figuring things out and watching Youtube videos. The users manual that came with the machine is useless.
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Huh. I've seen pedals with one potentiometer to set the maximum current, but this is the first time I've heard of one with a minimum current setting. I'm trying to figure out why that might be useful ... ???
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Hi Brian,
Could you upload some pics of the machine and foot pedal so we can see what you are working with?
If the number of variables is getting daunting, try using switched rather than pedal, set the current so that the metal goes from cold to nice pool in about 1-2 secs. Then step on as Andy says.
In the end it is all about the puddle - once it is properly formed (plus a dab, if you are adding filler) step a couple of mm. Then repeat.
Martin.
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This is my new tig welder and the foot pedal that came with it.
(http://imageshack.com/a/img921/9192/X5YgE4.jpg)
(http://imageshack.com/a/img922/9528/NDqZJ8.jpg)
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Brian, do you have any way to see what the current setting is when you adjust those min / max knobs on the pedal?
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Yes Andy--I can step on the pedal and watch the front display on the machine.
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When you do that, is the torch trying to light the arc??
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Yes, the torch is trying to establish an arc as soon as I step on the pedal.
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My tame TIGGER runs a shop fabricating stainless ware (sink benches etc) , The last job I took him, A displacer for a Stirlng Engine was less than .010" thick. he had just got a new welder with the low current setting control, didn't think he could have done the job without it, only blew two holes in it.
Ian S C
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Hi Brian,
So you could get feel for the amps on Max and Min by mounting the torch a few mm off a chunk of steel (an old mag base can do the holding) and watch the display while holding down the pedal and turning the knob. In the end what you are looking for is a nice pool in 1-2 seconds from cold or go for 1 amp per thou thickness - as a starting point. TIG is quite sensitive to current and you can go from barely melting to way too hot quickly - I remember my first ali weld, going along nicely, i thought, up to the point it slumped into a heap.
Incidentally a mag base or a G clamp make convenient hand supports to keep the torch steady.
Martin.
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Today was practice running weld beads, using filler wire. Trying different amperage settings and travel speeds. I was concerned that perhaps I wouldn't be able to use this welder, because I couldn't see the arc puddle clearly enough. Found out today that with a higher amperage comes a larger molten weld puddle and it all becomes easier to see. I did order a set of pyrex clear glass welding cups--they don't directly make you a better welder, but they allow you to see much more of what is actually happening. I am, as I said before, amazed at how quickly these welders consume welding rod, compared to oxy acetylene.
(http://imageshack.com/a/img922/5167/SOjgd7.jpg)
(http://imageshack.com/a/img923/7897/DGcz0W.jpg)
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So now we have keyways cut into the crankshaft. I even made a couple of keys the right size. I posed the keys in place long enough to take this picture. Now I will take the keys out and store them in a dedicated container, or, sure as God made little green apples, they will disappear before I get to final assembly.--And I promise, next time I take this thing apart I will file that opening smooth in the side of the cam box!!
(https://imagizer.imageshack.com/img922/4835/PjhRyZ.jpg)
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This morning I put on my mask and my gloves and my iron underwear, and went over to my welding supplier to pick up some 1/16" tungsten and some 1/16" filler rods. Prepaid by phone to avoid any close contact, material was left for me in vestibule. Came home and wiped everything down with varsol, then washed my hands with dish soap and hot water for 30 seconds. What a giant pain in the arse!!--At any rate, I wanted to see how the tig welder works with a smaller rod and tungsten. I have shown myself that I can lay down a bead with 3/32" tungsten and rod, even if the bead is large and ugly. I have cut up a bunch of 1" x 1/8" flat stock and prepared it in the same manner as the blades in my flywheel/fan. I made a cheap and nasty fixture to hold all of these pieces beside a larger piece of steel, in the same relationship as the fan blades, and will practice later today with the smaller rod.
(https://imagizer.imageshack.com/img921/5813/ZoAJNA.jpg)
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Today I welded up one of the flywheel fans. Let me be the first to say its uglier than original sin!! However, I haven't done any clean up on it yet. I've welded it in all of the spots (4 per blade,) that I intended to. I didn't melt anything away, although I probably added three times as much filler rod as I needed to at every spot. There seems to be only micro-seconds between having the metal molten enough to 'merge' with the filler weld and so hot that you burn away the fan-blade. I tried it with a 1/16" tungsten and filler rod at 70 amps max and with 3/32" tungsten and filler rod at 115 amps max. I am dazzled by how quickly everything happens. Back in the day, I did a lot of oxy-acetylene welding, and since I controlled the torch, things only happened as fast as I wanted them to. With this TIG process, it keeps wanting to run away on me. It gets so hot, so quickly, and gets molten so quickly that I'm afraid I'm going to melt everything before I get a chance to add any filler rod. Next step will be to clean everything up and decide if I want to add any more weld anywhere.
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' Ran things with the pedal "on the floor". That must be your Hot Rod background :lolb:
Still following along :ThumbsUp: :ThumbsUp: :wine1:
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I'm liking this.---Even with the $hity welds, it cleans up nice. In this picture I have machined the exposed side of the flywheel to make it run with no wobble, and taken a couple of passes across the outside diameter for the same reason. This is why I had put the 3/32" x 45 degree chamfer on the fan blades. Now, even though I have machined the lumpy welds away, there is still good solid weld holding things together. I will flip the part around now and machine the far side, then get in around the fan blades with a small disc and clean up the blades. The hub has had a keyway and two #10 set-screws added.
(https://imagizer.imageshack.com/img923/6444/bOEFmW.jpg)
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I'm no expert on TIG welding, but I have watched one of my friends that is (he has done stuff, that NASA brought to Mars in 2004) and I have noticed how small amounts off filler he is using. He almost never uses filler for spot-welding and those would have been that first ones put in all the strategic places on your flywheel. Those first spot-welds would also be spaced in a pattern that ensures minimum distortion of the parts in question - this also enables him to reasonably easy adjust the assembly if things didn't go to plan (that happens to experts too - they are just way better to rectify their error).
When all it to his liking - he starts to weld longer stretches again in a pattern to prevent distortion - but never more than what is needed. This last bit is especially one of the areas where I'm left hopelessly behind, as I usually feels that it is only a "Full Weld" that is strong enough ....
I might be wrong - but I think that you hardly need any filler on this one - probably more a question of moving fast enough when you got the "melt puddle" going or alternatively - just do quick spot-welds without filler in several places ....
I do hope that some of the residential experts would chime in.
Per
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Per--I needed a bit of filler rod. All of the "blades" had a 3/32" x 45 degree chamfer on them. This was so I could fill the chamfer with filler rod, and then when I cleaned everything up afterwards I could be certain that all of the blades were indeed still welded. I have cleaned the first flywheel up on the lathe and mounted it, along with the starter ring on the engine. I am very happy with the size and proportions. I think that after the second flywheel is welded, that I may paint both flywheels and just leave the outer diameter unpainted.
(https://imagizer.imageshack.com/img924/3851/pVmkVe.jpg)
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Brian. You’re falling into the trap that I, and I’m sure many other modelers fall into also.
We look at our model and we immediately see all the little errors we have made along the way. Everyone else looks at our model and think it is magnificent, even if we point out the problems. We’re not perfect and you’re still learning.
Think of some of the south West Indian jewelers In this country who purposefully place errors in their work as a expression or their humility.
Regardless of what YOU think, I think you’re making great progress an pd i’m enjoying this build.
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Thanks Craig.---I enjoy what I`m doing here, and I know a lot of people are following my build. I am more or less down to the point where there isn`t too much to be said. All I have left after the second flywheel is to mount a set of points and condenser, and then it will be time to rock and roll.
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It's too cold and damp to work out in the main garage with my tig welder today. So--Just to keep things moving forward, we install ignition points today. There was no need to dismantle the engine to add these two tapped holes. I have a big old cast iron angle plate that lets me bolt the angle plate to the mill bed and clamp the fully assembled engine to the angle plate. With the end of the crankshaft sticking up past the plate, it is great to have some extra long drills and taps. I will find a spot to attach the condenser while I am still in this set-up. The points will be hidden in behind the flywheel. Not exactly sure about the condenser location, but will find out in the next half hour.
(https://imagizer.imageshack.com/img921/9594/wAhrlK.jpg)
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The condenser was just a tad to big to fit behind the flywheel, so I moved it's location around to the end of the sideplate. And that is the sum total of the electrical components for this engine. Nothing left now except for the second flywheel. I just got back from my "fat mans walk" with my good wife, and we got rained on! I judge that I've got about 1 week of entertainment left on this engine, and then I may go stark raving mad. I've been entertained by this engine thru March and April, so that has given me something to do. I will definitely need a few weeks away from machining. This down time between builds is generally when my wife and I took time for each other and our grandkids. Now with this virus business, you can't really go and visit friends and you can't do things with grandchildren.
(https://imagizer.imageshack.com/img923/7344/HZhUKY.jpg)
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When I design and build these engines, I don't make an assembly drawing, only parts details---I work directly from the cad assembly on my computer. Of course when I decide it's time to sell plans, then I need to make complete assembly drawings so people who buy them know how to assemble them. The plans are never sold before the engine works to my satisfaction. I needed some quiet time this morning while my wife sleeps, so I've went ahead and made assembly drawings.---Brian
(https://imagizer.imageshack.com/img923/7128/tOzb7n.jpg)
(https://imagizer.imageshack.com/img922/4596/A46wvD.jpg)
(https://imagizer.imageshack.com/img924/1538/0FCpvr.jpg)
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And more of the same---
(https://imagizer.imageshack.com/img922/4186/KV5wSL.jpg)
(https://imagizer.imageshack.com/img924/1176/6hp6a7.jpg)
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:ThumbsUp:
Very nice drawings Brian!
Looking forward to seeing it run.
John
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craig thanks for pointing out about we see the faults in our work and sometimes we stop working on a project due to this failing
i am glad that i have my better half to spur me on even tho she has no interest in what im building an tells me to carry on and work around the problem or at the worst remake it
but best of all i look at what you fellows do and learn how to slow down and think it through and success does come
so thanks to you all
i have cerable palsey and throughout my schooldays got branded as a dummy because i had learning difficulties and could not grasp things as quickly as others
i had a love of engines which led to a great career in small engine repair close to retirement now sorry to hijack your build brian but you all on here have been an inspiration to me to finish jobs put away for some reason or another
thank you all
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I wanted to buy a spray can of John Deere green today for the flywheels, gas tank, and rocker support, but the hardware store is closed because of Covid. I wanted to practice some more tig welding today, with special attention given to the foot-pedal, but it was too cold in my main garage. I wanted to take a longer "fat mans walk" but I've got bad arthritis in my left knee. I wanted to go see my grandkids, but I can't because wife and I are "social distancing". All in all, I haven't done a hell of a lot today except cruise the internet and read the forums. I've had a very much "useless old man day"!!!
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Bah humbug, useless my ear. Sorry Brian I had to say that. You are one of the most creative guys I know! Not much happening around here either, social wise. I have been calling old friends though and learned that one couple moved to Phoenix and I thought they were in Springfield, MO. Sounds like an excuse to go to Phoenix. My normal once a week drink & get together with friends is on hold. Engine looks great.
Art
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cerable palsey
The diagnose does not tell much about the individual "case" person. I had a co-worker in my youth with the diagnose, and it was easy to see he had a problem, as he could only move around in a wheel chair + bad speach imparement - but he was a very brilliant programmer, and I have never meet anybody who could park his car so quickly and absolutely milimeter precise every time (he steered the car with his feet).
It's a question about seeing the person behind the "surface" ...!... and we also all have somethings we need to overcome.
Brian, I agree with Art - you have done some off the most diverse contructions on this forum :praise2: - but as mentioned above - we all at some time in our lives feel down and what gets us back on track is somewhat individual too - so I can't tell if you should read a good book, take the car for a spinn or .... :cheers:
Best wishes
Per
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It's still to cold to go and play Mr. Welder in my main garage (In fact it's snowing hard as I post this). So----Today, just to escape the "Old man stuck in the house syndrome", I found a piece of 304 stainless close to the size I wanted and made the take off pulley for Thumper. The 3 grooves are sized to tale 0.100" cross section O-rings, and all three are knurled in the bottom of the grooves to prevent slippage.
(https://imagizer.imageshack.com/img922/6172/FbtBQ1.jpg)
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Getting close! The snow should stop in a month or two... :o Was snowing lightly here the last couple days too, but its been melting off pretty quick.
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It's still to cold to go and play Mr. Welder in my main garage (In fact it's snowing hard as I post this)
Wow! What a difference between Canada and North Carolina. While it was snowing for you, I was wearing a T-shirt and had the shop door open!
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Dang!!! Wish I lived next door!!!
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I have to admit still having the heat on in the shop. No snow, just cold, it rained last night & was in the mid forties today.
Art
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A hundred people have asked me how I knurl the bottom of the pulley slot. I had a piece of 1" diameter 01 oil hardening steel. I chucked it up in my lathe and drilled and reamed a 1/4"center hole in it. Then I used my cheap old squeeze type Chinese knurls to knurl the outer diameter x about 1/2" long. Then I parted off a slice 0.100" thick which had the knurl on the outer diameter. Used my oxy acetylene torch to bring that slice up to cherry red, then dumped it into a tin can of old motor oil. This hardened the round slice harder than the devils horn. Then I put a .125" slot in the end of a piece of 1/2" square mild steel, with a hole thru at 90 degrees for a 1/4" mild steel axle. Loctited the axle in place, the hardened slice of knurled material is free to rotate. After the slot in the pulley I'm making has been cut with a parting off tool, I mount my newly made skinny knurler into a tool holder for my quick change toolpost and use the topslide to bring it in against the bottom of the pulley slot, with the lathe turning at about 150 rpm. a little bit of pressure, and there you are.
(https://imagizer.imageshack.com/img921/3630/bFVXWy.jpg)
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I'm glad you posted that. I was one who was going to ask how you did that.
I've been following along. Your rate of progress has been amazing.
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No machining, no tig practice!! I'm sick. Not the killer virus, just a nasty flu bug---more in my guts and body aches than anything. No temperature and no congestion. I needed something to do, so today I came down to my office and filled in the "custom properties" for all the components on Thumper. Filling in the "custom properties" of each component lets the description of that part appear in the main bill of materials, both on the main assembly drawing, and also on any sub assembly and part drawings. This is not something I would normally do on model engine drawings, but boredom makes me do strange things. I bought a spray can of John Deere Green paint for my flywheels, but after my wife went to the trouble of picking it up for me, I decided I didn't like the color. I've arranged to pick up a spray can of darker green tomorrow.
(https://imagizer.imageshack.com/img922/7482/SamVif.jpg)
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Hope you feel better soon Brian. You seem to be in pretty good shape from your "Fat man walks". Take care & just get well..
It's always fun learning new CAD skills with the software. I always kind of thought things like title blocks & BOM's maybe weren't all that necessary with model engine drawings, but once I started doing that, I really grew to appreciate spending the time doing that. & once you have these properties assigned, you can use them in other projects.
I still get a kick out of creating an assembly & then drawing, inserting my "custom" drawing format, & having the BOM create itself.
Nice work Brian.
John
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Still feeling crappy, but good enough to go for my "fat mans walk" and watch YouTube videos. There is a 4 part series of videos about "This Old Tony" making a go cart for his son. There is nothing too amazing about the go cart, but my God, the man is a virtuoso with a tig torch. He makes it look so easy to weld up all the different joints. I've built a couple of go carts over my lifetime, but the frames were either stick welded together out of old bed frame angles or oxy-acetylene brazed from electricians conduit. :pinkelephant: :pinkelephant:
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And here we have the second flywheel/fan hot off the welders bench. Ignore the stuff to the left of the flywheel---thats just practice welding. I spent an hour this morning playing with the foot-pedal while welding, to get used to changing the size of the arc puddle and not letting everything run away out of control. The flywheel still has to be cleaned up, and "trued" on the lathe but it looks a lot better than the first flywheel did immediately after welding. I am an old dog, but I am learning new tricks.
(https://imagizer.imageshack.com/v2/1600x1200q90/922/ObXJfA.jpg)
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Pretty slick, Brian. I too learned Tig welding as an old man of 50+ years, it was a challenge, but I'm happy with my progress.
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Leapin' Lizards Annie--Just look at that thing!!! Both flywheels fit where I intended them to. I could probably spend a day "fettling" around the welds to blend everything in, but I'm not going to. Plan is to knock down any high spots and any sharp points, then paint them. I had purchased a can of John Deere Green, but decided that I didn't like it. Went back and bought a darker green which I think will look nice.
(https://imagizer.imageshack.com/v2/1600x1200q90/922/gHNtM9.jpg)
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Ladies and Gentlemen-I present "THUMPER" in all it's beauty. Yesterdays paint job dried overnight, and everything got unmasked and assembled this morning. Now I get to the point where "Thumper" can not stay on it's merits as being pretty---It has to actually run for me. I started this build on or about the 1st. of March, and had everything completed by the beginning of April except for the flywheel/fan blades. I had some time in April devoted to purchasing and learning to use a new Tig welder, and a few days of stomach flue. I am happy with the way this engine turned out, and will be even happier if the next stage (getting it to run) goes fairly easy on me.----Brian
(https://imagizer.imageshack.com/v2/1600x1200q90/922/b9D4hu.jpg)
(https://imagizer.imageshack.com/v2/1600x1200q90/923/55lSd0.jpg)
(https://imagizer.imageshack.com/v2/1600x1200q90/922/FXccxG.jpg)
(https://imagizer.imageshack.com/v2/1600x1200q90/924/O1v6kn.jpg)
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That green really sets of the colors of the metal, heres hoping the IC spark gods like it too!
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Looks good :praise2: :praise2: is the silencer (muffler) really close to the fuel tank or is it just the camera angle?
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At it's nearest point, it is about 1/4" from the gas tank. I made it extra long so the discharge would be well out beyond the gas tank.
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Now we get to talk about cam timing. As you can see in the drawing, there is about 125 degrees of "cam influence". That gets doubled when you think of what is happening at the crankshaft, because of the 1:2 ratio between the crankshaft gear and the camshaft gear. So---at the crankshaft we have 250 degrees which we have to account for. When the piston travels full stroke from top dead center to bottom dead center, that accounts for 180 degrees. so 250-180=70 degrees. I like to have the intake valve start to open about 20 degrees before the piston reaches top dead center on the exhaust stroke. I can adjust the cam position to make this happen. If we take that 70 degree figure and subtract the 20 degrees from it, then that means that the intake valve will close 50 degrees into the compression stroke.--I can't set that last figure. That last figure is totally dependent on the shape of the cam. I like my exhaust valve to begin opening at 45 degrees before bottom dead center on the power stroke, and I can set that. So, again, if you subtract that 45 degrees from 70 degrees, that means that the exhaust valve stays open until 25 degrees into the intake stroke. I will set the cams up as written in the text, and see what happens. These calculations do not take valve lash into account, but they seem to work for me when the valve lash is set to about 0.010".
(https://imagizer.imageshack.com/v2/1600x1200q90/924/EwAe9U.jpg)
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Brian,
The Thumper looks great. Nice color, almost British racing green, but then there are so many shades of that color that it must be. Good luck setting up the cams.
Art
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This morning I'm setting valve timing. There is a lot going on in this picture. On the far side of the engine is a cardboard protractor I made up. It has a wood base and a clearance hole thru it for the crankshaft. It has the degree marks that I want to set my valves to printed on it---20 degrees before top dead center and 45 degrees after bottom dead center. There is a temporary metal stand made up for my dial indicator, and the end of the indicator is setting on top of the intake valve rocker arm. I think I have a Canadian two dollar coin in there for a spacer because I couldn't get the dial indicator quite low enough without modifying the temporary stand. For the intake I have found and marked the flywheel at top dead center, then turned the crankshaft backwards until the top dead center mark on the flywheel was lined up with the 20 degree before top dead center mark on the protractor.(grub screws in intake cam and both gears are locked to camshaft and crankshaft. Then I loosen off the grub screws in the crankshaft gear and turn the camshaft gear in the correct direction until I see the dial indicator start to move. I then lock the crankshaft gear grub screws and the intake valve is set. The exhaust valve is more difficult, because the cam and crank gears are locked in position. I set the crankshaft in a position that is 45 degrees before the piston reaches bottom dead center. I loosen of the grub screws in the exhaust cam and set the dial indicator up on the exhaust valve. Then without moving crankshaft or camshaft, I have to reach in thru the "window" and spin the exhaust cam in the correct direction until it contacts the lifter. (This is far easier said than done). then the grubscrews in the exhaust cam are locked up.
(https://imagizer.imageshack.com/v2/1600x1200q90/924/UHeQTj.jpg)
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Looks good Brian!
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I thought I had mentioned this in my previous post, but I see that I didn't. What I did this morning does not take into account any valve lash. I set my valve lash for 0.010" after the cams are located and locked in place. In reality, the valve lash means that the cam has to turn a very little bit more than perfect design parameters before the valve starts to lift.
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YES!!!--The engine runs. It had fairly weak compression to begin with, gave a lot of pops and farts, but didn't want to run on it's own. I advanced the timing about 10 degrees, but no joy. Everything was set to "optimum" but it didn't want to keep running on it's own. I have a new (used)1/4 horsepower electric motor that I bought a couple of months ago. I set it up and ran a v-belt from one of the motor pulleys to the offside flywheel, turned on the switch and let the electric motor run the engine. The engine was firing right along with the motor running it. The cylinder got warm and the exhaust was warm, so I just let it run. I knew that with combustion happening, the valves would begin to seal better and the rings would seat. After about 15 minutes I stopped everything, took the belt off, and started the engine the normal way, with my electric drill. I am very pleased, the engine is a runner. Now it's just a matter of taming it a bit to get a good idle and throttle response. Now that I know the engine runs okay, I will sell the plans for $25 Canadian---contact me by email. I haven't been able to get Youtube to work for me for the last month or so, but tomorrow I will get a video of it with my camera and see if my wife can open a new account on Youtube. If she can't I'm going to have to figure out another way of getting a video to post.---Brian
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Congratulations on a very important milestone on this build Brian :ThumbsUp:
Per
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YES!!!--The engine runs.
It looks great Brian, and it looks like you have a runner :cartwheel:
Congratulations. Let’s celebrate. :cheers:
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Excellent!! Should be a pretty good breeze from the fanflywheels too.
:popcorn:
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Looking forward to the video.
What is 'valve lash'?
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When a valve is not open, and the cam is not influencing the valve in any way, there must be a clearance between the end of the valve and whatever valve lifter mechanism is used. If there was no clearance, the valve would possibly be held open and leak compression. The amount of clearance is called "valve lash".
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Brian,
It is great to hear that your engine is running. I look forward to seeing the video. I had some trouble with YouTube over the weekend, couldn't find my videos when I went to my account but I was able to download the video and add the address to the link.
Art
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Congratulations on getting Thumper running :ThumbsUp: :ThumbsUp: :wine1: YouTube seems to trying to shut down old browsers like IE. Have you tried with Edge or Chrome?
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Yes Roger I have tried with Chrome and edge---Still doesn't upload video. If I have one complaint about Traxxas 4033 carburetors, it's this. If you don't have some over-riding control on the throttle, then as soon as your engine starts it will open the throttle wide open. The only way I have found to get around that is to make up my own throttle lever with a good heavy compression spring at the pivot point and a lever connecting it to the Traxxas throttle lever. That way the engine stays at whatever throttle setting you choose. It is very exciting to have your brand new engine start and immediately rev up to the point where you are afraid it may explode before you get the ignition switch shut off.
(https://imagizer.imageshack.com/v2/1600x1200q90/923/MF4YT0.jpg)
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Brian,
It's the little things that make life exciting.
Art
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Art---I'm in fine tuning mode on this engine. I have always "as a rule of thumb" set my ignition timing up to fire 10 degrees before top dead center. I just tried to google information confirming this, and got four billion answers, non of which answered my question. What do you set your timing at?---Brian
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Brian,
That reminds me of a cartoon hanging in the door at work, that goes something like this. "Honey are you coming to bed. Just a minute, someone on the internet is wrong." In think I've heard 14 degrees but don't remember where. I have made my engines with a solid cam, no changing the individual cam timing. But can change the cam to crank by 1 tooth at a time. On my Upshur engine I had 20 degrees of adjustment on the ignition. I used that for fine tuning. Oh yeah, the points cam is set by a shcs so that is infinitely adjustable.
Art
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I usually start at about 5deg but as I said in your previous engine make the points so they are easily moved while the engine is running just like an old car has the advance & retard on the steering wheel boss than you can play with things as the engine runs. last few have a lot of adjustment and can even be moved far enough so the engine runs in either direction.
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The timing on small engines is not really critical especially when not loaded. Any where between 5° and 20° BTDC will run without problems. If you have an engine with easily adjustable timing you will find you can move it a long way, 40° or more, before it won't run.
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As stated - it is not very important on show engines ....
I seem to remember that the combustion should be completed (nothing left to burn) 4 degrees before TDC, for maximum power. When you then take the burning poperties of the fuel and combustion chamber, combined with the RPM and size of combustion chamber, you get the optimum ignition timing. As all this requires some very accurate Mathematical models and a very big computer (the Major players have them) - it usually ends up on a dyno anyway to confirm the results ..... So if you have all information you can get very close, but there is no way that a Rule of Thumb will be anything more than a starting point, to start the engine ...!
Per
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Okay---I've conducted a poll. Art says 14 degrees. I thought it was 10 degrees. Three small engine shops I called answered 28 to 30 degrees, one guy was very certain that on single cylinder engines with no mechanical advance it was 23 degrees, and a third shop owner said he always set for 25 degrees before top dead center. Unless somebody can offer me up a better solution, i'm going to set my ignition timing up to fire 15 degrees before top dead center.
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It all depends on what you want your engines to do. For slow speed running 5° to 10° advance will be fine. If you are looking at the power the engine can deliver you will need to experiment with the timing. An engine running at 2000rpm will need less advance than an engine running at 8000rpm. At 10000rpm you may need 40° advance for maximum power. Every engine is different.
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It's not often that I learn something new which impresses me, but it does happen. I have always set my engines ignition timing by ear and "about 10 degrees advance". This morning I was calling around to small engine repair shops to get a concensus on this timing. I never did get a clearly cut concensus on this, but ended up taking 15 degrees before top dead center as the best time for spark. However, I heard the following method of setting ignition advance, and it just blew me away. The first step is to use either cad or trigonometry to see how far up the piston moves between top dead center and 15 degrees before top dead center. In my case, with a crank throw of 0.687", the piston moves up 0.027". Pull the cylinder head off, and with the piston at top dead center, measure from the top of the cylinder down to the top of the piston. In my case that was 0.106". add the 0.027" to that, and you get 0.133". Make a disc that thickness, slightly smaller than the piston diameter. Set it on top of the piston, then bolt a bar across the top of the cylinder and then turn the crankshaft in the correct direction until the piston presses the disc against the underside of the bar. that is exactly where you want the spark to occur.
(https://imagizer.imageshack.com/v2/1600x1200q90/923/6E1B11.jpg)
(https://imagizer.imageshack.com/v2/1600x1200q90/924/GkaWqX.jpg)
(https://imagizer.imageshack.com/v2/1600x1200q90/922/l9LYRu.jpg)
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Remove the flywheel on the side where the ignition points are, set the ignition points for a 0.020" gap, then loosen off the grub screws in the ignition cam. Hook up the battery and sparkplug and while still holding the piston tight against the underside of the bar, rotate the cam in the right direction until you get a good fat spark. Lock the cam grubscrews there, and the engine will be timed to exactly 15 degrees before top dead center. Remove the retaining bar and the disc and bolt the cylinder head and flywheel back in place.
(https://imagizer.imageshack.com/v2/1600x1200q90/922/FORKMJ.jpg)
(https://imagizer.imageshack.com/v2/1600x1200q90/924/Nptgf3.jpg)
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Bit of along winded way for an open crank engine, OK for enclosed where you can't easily see whats going on.
far easier on an engine like yours to cut a simple template from card with and angle of 15deg or 75 deg and hold that against a flat surface and side of the crank web then set your spark to that point.
Just to conform what has been said about igniton timing not being critical, I just watched one of Nick Rowland's videos and he moves the timing lever about 80degrees either side of TDC and the engine runs all the time, just the speed alters from barely ticking over to flat out.
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I must have done something right. I finished my fine tuning on Thumper, and was able to upload a video of it running. Youtube seems to be working okay for me now. There may be more videos of Thumper driving one of my mechanisms, but for now here is a video of Thumper by itself. thank you to all who have followed this build.---Brian
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m5McnNHjSHw
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That's running well :praise2: :praise2: :wine1: There seems to be little vibration, I wondered if the rocker would compensate for the inbuilt unbalance of a single :thinking:
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Thats running great!! Love the bottom rocker motion. :ThumbsUp:
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Great result Brian - another fine runner to your collection :praise2:
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I have a number of requests for plan sets. Tomorrow I will open each drawing and save it as a pdf file so that no special software is needed to open and print the drawings. This will take a couple of hours, as there are 60 drawings and some of them are multiple sheets. I charge $25 Canadian funds, payable to Paypal. If you send money to brupnow@rogers.com at Paypal, they will notify me and I will send you a zip file with all of the part and assembly drawings. Please specify that it is the drawing set for "Thumper".---Brian Rupnow
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Brian,
That thing runs so sweet, sounds great.
Art
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Hi Brian, congratulation for another typical "Rupnow Runner".
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Well done Brian yet another success you've certainly got the design and manufacture of these engines off to a fine art.
:cartwheel: :pinkelephant: :whoohoo:
Stew
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Thank you very much guys. It means a great deal to me when I get acknowledgements from other fine engine builders.---Brian
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I was asked yesterday what rpm the engine was running at in the video. I checked it this morning with the engine driving the clutch. It seems very comfortable at 975 to 1000 rpm. If I turn the idle screw to let it run slower, it stumbles and stalls.
(https://imagizer.imageshack.com/v2/1600x1200q90/924/wLRLXm.jpg)
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I've spent much of today "dialing and tweaking" to see how slow I could get the engine to idle. It idles at about 950 to 1000 rpm with no load at all on the engine, and idles at 800 rpm quite happily with the load of a driven clutch on it. If I try for anything lower than that, it just gives up and stalls.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yktUDHnOIZs
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:ThumbsUp:
Now, to watch it hooked up to the saw...
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So---What was the outcome of this exercise? Not what I would have liked, but I will explain. "Thumper", with it's larger bore is a lot more powerful than any of the other 1" bore engines that I tried to run the sawmill edger with. I can easily start the engine with the disengaged clutch driven by three rubber o-rings. With no o-rings in place, the engine idles at around 1000 rpm. With the load of the o-rings driving the clutch (while it is disengaged), the idle rpm's drop to about 800 rpm. However, the edger is designed to have an input of 2000 rpm driving the 16:1 gear reducer. This should turn the saw-blades at 1000 rpm, and turn the infeed rolls at a lower rpm so as not to over-run the saw-blades. I adjusted the engine to run at +/- 2000 rpm, and engaged the clutch. The engine took it all in stride, and didn't stall. There was a noticeable drop in engine rpm, but it drove the edger mechanism without any noticeable bogging. However, when I went to feed a board through the edger, the board would get about half way thru the saws, and then stall the engine. I repeated this about 10 times with different settings and adjustments, but it became plain that the new engine simply didn't have enough power. I have a theory, but at this time it is only a theory. With the ignition set to fire at 15 degrees before top dead center, the engine starts and idles very smooth, and revs up very well in response to opening the throttle. I have the feeling that at 2000 rpm, the timing is too slow for that rpm. The engine doesn't have any mechanism to advance the spark timing with changes in engine rpm. I believe that if I were to modify the engine so that as the throttle opened the ignition timing would advance automatically, the engine would be much more powerful at the 2000 rpm it is being asked for. I have decided to back away from this project for a while and do something else. I will probably come back to this and redesign the engine to give it an automatic spark advance, but for now I'm burned out on it.
(https://imagizer.imageshack.com/v2/1600x1200q90/922/wKl81e.jpg)
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Brian,
You may already have done this, and if so I apologize - but have you run your saw/edger with an electric motor to be sure nothing is catching or kinking up?
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Yes Andy, I did and it worked fine. There is a thread with the video of it running somewhere on this forum.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qj-WsoHQ9SI
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Well, darn. Still a good try and a good looking engine, Brian.
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Ah, now that I see that, I remember seeing it before. Sorry about that.
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I think that you are coming against the difference between a 'show engine' which should have a good steady idle and a power producing engine. When you were doing your hit and miss experiments you found that the key was a good strong full power hit so there would be several misses before the next hit. The whole set up, carb, valve timing and ignition timing is different between the two species. I am working towards power producing engines and hope to get some form of idle.
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-This engine has no governor, but before I made my trials with it I had turned the throttle adjustment screw in to the point where the engine was running at about 2000 rpm. The edger grabbed the board and sent it through the first set of powered rollers, then about 3" thru the saw, and then when the board got to the second set of rollers the engine bogged down and quit. I will retry it later this week with a weaker set of springs on the last set of powered rollers.---I have also investigated adding a manual ignition advance. It can be easily done, but I've hurt my back and I'm setting here designing with a heating pad on my back.
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Nice job Brian, looks and runs great! :cheers:
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That's a nice build engine you got there. And runs quit smooth for a single cylinder!
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Brian,
I can commiserate with having back pain. My lower back goes out and the best thing I've been able to do at those times is to visit the chiropractor. Haven't been able to do that since mid March due to the lock down. I had one stretch in that time where my back went out and I was in a lot of pain, fortunately it didn't last long. Relax and do what you need to do to pull through it.
Art
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Since I want to run Thumper at a much greater speed than at idle, I need to be able to adjust the timing of the engine. With a non adjustable ignition timing, the engine will run much faster than at idle, but it really doesn't have a lot of power at higher rpm. The cheap and quick way to address this is to mount the ignition points on a separate timing plate which can be adjusted with an attached lever. A #10 shcs and spring washer go thru the slot into the frame of the engine so the adjustable timing plate will hold itself in whatever position you set the handle at. This current set up will give an adjustment range of a total 120 degrees. It is pivoted on the crankshaft. This set-up will allow me to advance the engine timing when it is running at a higher speed. I have hidden the near side flywheel here so that the ignition advance mechanism is visible. The ignition points are attached to the timing plate and rotate with it, thus advancing or retarding the ignition.
(https://imagizer.imageshack.com/v2/1600x1200q90/923/W07gpy.jpg)
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I scrounged around in my flat plate box to find a piece of material to make this manual spark advance from, and the only bit I found close to the right thickness had some rust pits on it. Oh well, that will be hidden in behind the flywheel. I have to call my nut and bolt store and see what they have in the line of Belleveille spring washers so that I can put them under the head of the bolt which goes thru the slot into the engine frame to keep the spark advance from slipping and resetting itself.
(https://imagizer.imageshack.com/v2/1600x1200q90/924/3pkKWV.jpg)
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And the ignition timing handle is added. One picture shows the entire engine set up on an angle plate in my milling machine so I could drill and tap the single #10-24 thread thru the side of the engine for the bolt that keeps the timing handle in place. The other picture shows the engine setting on my side table with the installation completed. Tomorrow I will set it up to run and see how big a difference the timing makes to the power output.
(https://imagizer.imageshack.com/v2/1600x1200q90/923/JrdqBj.jpg)
(https://imagizer.imageshack.com/v2/1600x1200q90/922/DIlE8i.jpg)
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That was quick! And slick...here's hoping to see some wood chips soon!
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I just went down to my "Nut and Bolt" store and picked up a dozen Belleville washers. For those of you who haven't heard of them, they are a spring steel flat washer, which have a curve built into them---They're not really flat. In situations like I have with the new timing handle, you want it to stay wherever you set it and not move out of adjustment from engine vibration. However, you do want it to swing freely "by hand" but then remain in place. These Belleville washers are the answer. You can stack 4 of them together and put one ordinary flat washer next to the part which has the slot cut in it. They work very well to put a constant "pre-load" on the part which must be moved by hand but not by engine vibration.
(https://imagizer.imageshack.com/v2/1600x1200q90/922/9sq28g.jpg)
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For those who bought a set of plans for this engine----This is the timing handle that I added to the engine.---Brian
(https://imagizer.imageshack.com/v2/1600x1200q90/922/rcH7g0.jpg)
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Today I started and ran "Thumper" with the new ignition timing handle in place. Did it make a difference?--No, not really. I could manually adjust the timing thru a range of about 75 degrees. With the engine running under no load conditions, I couldn't really see it affecting the way the engine ran. The engine ran good, but it ran good before I added the ignition timing handle. I have one more test to make, and then I will put this thread to bed. I want to set the engine up to run my sawmill edger, and see what difference the timing handle makes when the engine is under a load. If it does make the engine run stronger I will post a video of the engine running the edger and edging boards. If it doesn't make any difference to the power under load I will let you know.
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I have a few things to say about this engine, and immediately after I do I am going to go out into my main garage and try it one more time running the edger with the new manual ignition timing handle to see if it does make the engine run stronger or not. Firstly, I am completely blown away by the compression this engine has with the rings purchased from Debolt. Secondly, the flywheel fans do move enough air to constantly be moving air over the cylinder fins and dissipating the heat. They're not going to blow your hat off, but they are moving the air. Also, there is no measurable load imposed on the engine by these fans. (At least not with any equipment that I have). I will not be building a governor for this engine. The engine has been a complete joy to build and run, and even if it doesn't ultimately have enough power to run the edger, the engine has went together and ran easily.
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And that's all she wrote. Time to move on to a different project.---Brian
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BZjtvawaTYM
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Though you did not fulfill your planned outcome here Brian - I do think that the two as individual project are a great successes in their own right -> so cheer to that :cheers:
Best wishes
Per
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Thank you Per. They were both successful projects.--It's just that they weren't fated to work together.---Brian
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Brian,
Is there any chance of gearing the edger down so the wood moves through at a slower rate?
Art
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Art--the edger is already geared down thru a 16:1 gear reducer. The gear reducer has two output shafts, one to drive the pressure rollers, the other to power the sawblade which rotates in the opposite direction. Any further gearing down will slow the sawblades to a point where they won't cut.
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Art--the edger is already geared down thru a 16:1 gear reducer. The gear reducer has two output shafts, one to drive the pressure rollers, the other to power the sawblade which rotates in the opposite direction. Any further gearing down will slow the sawblades to a point where they won't cut.
Could the feed rollers be geared more, without changing the sawblade rpms? Keeping the blade speed up but feeding slower would help a lot, though that might mean too many mechanical changes to the existing machine.
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Too many changes, not easily done. I've moved on from this project about two weeks ago in my head, but thought I needed to make this last approach today to be fair to all the people who follow my posts. I didn't really feel, in my black little heart that this was going to work, but I've proven myself wrong before. The engine works well, with a lighter load, and the edger works well with more power input.
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I would be worth taking the drive and tension off the rollers and just hand feeding at least that way you can see if a slower speed works, think I said long ago in the edger thread it needed to be slower.