Model Engine Maker

General Category => Chatterbox => Topic started by: crueby on September 18, 2019, 02:49:23 PM

Title: Possible next projects
Post by: crueby on September 18, 2019, 02:49:23 PM
With the Marion build over  :-[ , looking through the project pile and have a few choices.

One is the Stanley automobile steam engine that I have plans for, but I am still debating the best way to make the cylinder block with its inward-facing valve faces.
(https://i.postimg.cc/4xJq1XBZ/Stanley_block.jpg)
Could make it in three pieces, with the center section separate, but connecting them is the issue - the center is narrower than the cylinders, so can't bolt through the whole thing. Also the round port goes past the valve faces. Still noodling on that one.

Another option is the Ward Pumping Station engine(s) - there are 5 there, would only build one! I have a copy of the original builders blueprints, and have been converting them to a 3D CAD model:
(https://i.postimg.cc/h4pgf8zL/Holly-Engine.jpg)
This engine is ginormous, about 60 feet tall, triple expansion. I was thinking of a cutaway version to show the innards and valves/pumps, like you would see in a museum display, with a hidden motor to turn it to show the motion. Or maybe have two cylinders cut away, third driving the model? Whichever way, this would be a very large model to get all the parts functional.

Other option, more likely to build since it would be a shorter-term project, is a design I've drawn up that combines the Marion slew/crowd engine valve design with a mill or winding engine style. This valve setup makes a reversing engine with no extra eccentrics or external linkages, it does it all with internal porting. By making a winding engine style, the cylinders are separate so I could make them larger - a 1.5" bore x 2" stroke, which should make for a nice slow running engine. The center block is the throttle/reversing valve.
(https://i.postimg.cc/gjSPQdFS/Marion-Valve-Engine.jpg)
Or, something else....!
Title: Re: Possible next projects
Post by: Jasonb on September 18, 2019, 03:17:14 PM
I think the Stanley block would be better done if 5 pieces. The two cylinders with the ports machined on them and small spigots on the ends. A central block with the round hole and then two end plates which will fit over the spigots and tie it all together. This Is how I was thinking of doing Julius' Musgrave engine and also how Ramon made the one piece block for his Stuart double ten in the "wide awake" thread. But then again if silver soldered you can do it in 3 and not need to bolt anything together

Last option looks good too.
Title: Re: Possible next projects
Post by: Jo on September 18, 2019, 04:10:09 PM
I find it is nice to do a simple engine, in between larger models and sometimes during their build ::)

Jo
Title: Re: Possible next projects
Post by: crueby on September 18, 2019, 04:11:50 PM
I think the Stanley block would be better done if 5 pieces. The two cylinders with the ports machined on them and small spigots on the ends. A central block with the round hole and then two end plates which will fit over the spigots and tie it all together. This Is how I was thinking of doing Julius' Musgrave engine and also how Ramon made the one piece block for his Stuart double ten in the "wide awake" thread. But then again if silver soldered you can do it in 3 and not need to bolt anything together

Last option looks good too.
Interesting - with the center done as side/end plates I could put gaskets or sealant in the joints...
By 'spigots', you mean like flanges to screw through?
Title: Re: Possible next projects
Post by: crueby on September 18, 2019, 04:13:03 PM
I find it is nice to do a simple engine, in between larger models and sometimes during their build ::)

Jo
Thats the direction I am leaning - a shorter project (the marion valve engine) to give a break from the big projects, something to see done sooner.   :ThumbsUp:
Title: Re: Possible next projects
Post by: Jasonb on September 18, 2019, 04:34:36 PM
No more like this, the cylinder have a circular spigot that fits into the plate which stops them moving outwards.

http://www.modelenginemaker.com/index.php/topic,2851.msg117544.html#msg117544

Similar to how I do single cylinders but the end flanges would be more figure eight shaped.

(https://img.photobucket.com/albums/v156/jasonballamy/Engineering/Thompstone/DSC01731_zpslxn2ujl9.jpg)

(https://img.photobucket.com/albums/v156/jasonballamy/Engineering/Thompstone/DSC01730_zpsow8gzi42.jpg)
Title: Re: Possible next projects
Post by: crueby on September 18, 2019, 04:46:35 PM
Ah, gotcha! With both end flanges on the cylinder and the end of the steam chest as one piece... Interesting! That would give a way to bolt into the side plates of the steam chest, hold everything aligned and tight. Neat!
No more like this, the cylinder have a circular spigot that fits into the plate which stops them moving outwards.

http://www.modelenginemaker.com/index.php/topic,2851.msg117544.html#msg117544 (http://www.modelenginemaker.com/index.php/topic,2851.msg117544.html#msg117544)

Similar to how I do single cylinders but the end flanges would be more figure eight shaped.

(https://img.photobucket.com/albums/v156/jasonballamy/Engineering/Thompstone/DSC01731_zpslxn2ujl9.jpg)

(https://img.photobucket.com/albums/v156/jasonballamy/Engineering/Thompstone/DSC01730_zpsow8gzi42.jpg)
Title: Re: Possible next projects
Post by: Ye-Ole Steam Dude on September 18, 2019, 05:22:07 PM
Hey Chris,

My vote ( that is if I get one  :slap: ) would be the Marion valve engine in a scaled up version, they are really neat and you did a great job with the smaller version.

Have a great day,
Thomas
Title: Re: Possible next projects
Post by: crueby on September 18, 2019, 05:27:54 PM
Hey Chris,

My vote ( that is if I get one  :slap: ) would be the Marion valve engine in a scaled up version, they are really neat and you did a great job with the smaller version.

Have a great day,
Thomas
Oh sure - votes are free - vote early and often!  :o    Votes may all be ignored at the discretion of the shop elves though...  :Lol:

I do have some 2.5" (and some smaller bars too) of 1144 stressproof steel left over from the smaller engines, works out perfect for the scaled up version.
Title: Re: Possible next projects
Post by: mnay on September 18, 2019, 07:15:13 PM
Crueby,
Where did you get your plans for the Stanley engine?  I built the Locomobile engine scaled up from Live Steam Magazine and it worked out great.
Mike
Title: Re: Possible next projects
Post by: crueby on September 18, 2019, 08:05:30 PM
Crueby,
Where did you get your plans for the Stanley engine?  I built the Locomobile engine scaled up from Live Steam Magazine and it worked out great.
Mike
Hi Mike,


I got them from someone who drew them in Fusion 360 from an existing engine. Does the block look similar to the one you built? If so, how did they machine it? And which issues was it in?
Thanks!
Chris
Title: Re: Possible next projects
Post by: gbritnell on September 18, 2019, 09:45:33 PM
Hi Chris,
When looking at full sized engines or machinery I always try to figure out how it was made or machined originally. Even with special tooling there had to be a way to machine the valve face on the Stanley. In som instances I have made a special tool to finish a part. I have a friend with a Stanley engine set-up in an old Packard. I'll have to see if he has a cylinder assembly that I could look at.
As far as what project to do usually after a long build like the Marion for you I like to do something simple so I don't get burned out but still satisfy my need to machine.
gbritnell
Title: Re: Possible next projects
Post by: b.lindsey on September 19, 2019, 12:16:57 AM
Go simple while you think about the more complex projects. Multitasking in a way.

Bill
Title: Re: Possible next projects
Post by: crueby on September 19, 2019, 12:32:19 AM
Thanks guys, think that I am going to go with the winding/Marion valve engine next, as you say it will be a 'simple' engine to break up the long projects with!

 :cheers: :cheers: :cheers:

One of the other side projects that I am working out with another guy in our local RC submarine group is a sub based on the Hydra sub from the movie Captain America - First Avenger:

(https://i.postimg.cc/CxcY7NPN/My-Drawing.jpg)

We are still working out the mechanisms to use for the propellers, which are in the two nacelles on the sides. Once that is worked out, we can decide on the final size of the hulls, probably in the 24 to 39 inch long range. Just one of those sub designs that says 'build me!'. We will most likely make a wood master then take a mold from that to lay up the hulls in fiberglass.

Another background project is an RC version of a Caterpillar 340D excavator - a modern hydraulic digger, that will have electric motors geared down to leadscrews inside the booms to simulate the hydraulic rams. There ARE true hydraulics available on the market, but they are quite pricey and VERY messy when a hose leaks. So far I have the motor/leadscrews 90% built, couple more parts and I can do some mockups and force tests to see if they will have enough strength for real work. This will be at about 1:15 scale, maybe 1:14 or 1:12, have to see what fits. More on this as it develops. Or, maybe dropped if the force is not enough - should work out, using 172:1 gearmotors hooked to 4 lead leadscrews, initial tests show lots of power when trying to hold it back by hand. The tracks, not shown in this drawing, will use some RC tank tracks that are the right size.

(https://i.postimg.cc/L4jpwRQh/1-15-Cat340-D-Excavator-Drawing-v1.jpg)
Title: Re: Possible next projects
Post by: Jasonb on September 19, 2019, 07:16:33 AM
It looks like the port faces on the Stanley could have been done with a shaper on the full size but the issue for the one off builder is the ports which would have been cored during casting and would be very hard to machine on a miniature let alone full size.

If you do go with "Big Marion" My personal thoughts are that the crankshaft bearing supports look to be on the light side and compared to the cylinder/trunk guide part of the engine they look small, if doing it as a mill engine then I also think a larger flywheel would be more in keeping, what looks like a 4" flywheel is quite small for a 1.5x2 twin, possibly drop the whole engine down and have a slot in your display base or model a brick or stone base which would also reduce the need to have the engine raised on those legs.

A lot of the RC truck and heavy plant model makers do use mini hydralic rams, it is a very popular hobby on mainland Europe particularly in Germany. Even some of the ready to run stuff is packed with functions that you could possibly transfer to yours rather than start from scratch
Title: Re: Possible next projects
Post by: PJPickard on September 19, 2019, 11:21:32 AM
Wow that Ward! Great that you have the prints, and great work on the 3D model. That would be my choice but I understand it is a long term project!
Title: Re: Possible next projects
Post by: crueby on September 19, 2019, 01:23:20 PM
It looks like the port faces on the Stanley could have been done with a shaper on the full size but the issue for the one off builder is the ports which would have been cored during casting and would be very hard to machine on a miniature let alone full size.

If you do go with "Big Marion" My personal thoughts are that the crankshaft bearing supports look to be on the light side and compared to the cylinder/trunk guide part of the engine they look small, if doing it as a mill engine then I also think a larger flywheel would be more in keeping, what looks like a 4" flywheel is quite small for a 1.5x2 twin, possibly drop the whole engine down and have a slot in your display base or model a brick or stone base which would also reduce the need to have the engine raised on those legs.

A lot of the RC truck and heavy plant model makers do use mini hydralic rams, it is a very popular hobby on mainland Europe particularly in Germany. Even some of the ready to run stuff is packed with functions that you could possibly transfer to yours rather than start from scratch
I think you are right about the bearings supports, they are 1/2" thick, but do look light for the size of the rest, should have more mass to them. The flywheel as drawn is 5" x 1", and is just a placeholder till I see what stock I can find. Probably will do a large built up spoked one like on my MEM corliss model.
On the excavator, I am using components from the robotics world, all off the shelf bits for the actuators and gears, Servocity has tons of that stuff plus ranges of gearmotors. I have a 9 channel radio won in the raffle at the Carmel submarine run last year. The only parts to be scratch built will be the shell of the machine.
Title: Re: Possible next projects
Post by: crueby on September 19, 2019, 01:27:53 PM
Wow that Ward! Great that you have the prints, and great work on the 3D model. That would be my choice but I understand it is a long term project!
Its really impressive to walk in the building and have five of those massive engines towering over your head! Down in the well at one end, where they left space for more engines if needed, there is a couple of small (by comparison) electric powered pumps that replaced all the rest of the building. At least they left the old engines, sad that the building with all the boilers is gone, collapsed in a blizzard decades ago.
Title: Re: Possible next projects
Post by: Elam Works on September 19, 2019, 05:19:00 PM
Cutting the port faces on the full scale version.

-Doug
Title: Re: Possible next projects
Post by: crueby on September 19, 2019, 07:27:07 PM
Cutting the port faces on the full scale version.

-Doug
Excellent photo! Thanks!
Title: Re: Possible next projects
Post by: Steamer5 on September 19, 2019, 10:49:27 PM
Hi Doug,
 That’s a great photo! I’ll show my dad as we had been trying to work out how that was done!
Have you any other photos you can share ?

Cheers Kerrin
Title: Re: Possible next projects
Post by: crueby on September 19, 2019, 10:57:29 PM
Doug, does the cutter mover back and forth, as on a shaper, or does it spin as well?
Title: Re: Possible next projects
Post by: 10KPete on September 19, 2019, 11:19:20 PM
A lot of folks have forgotten just how useful a shaper is. It can do cuts no other common machine can do. A hundred years ago it seems every shop had one! I wish I did.....

Pete
Title: Re: Possible next projects
Post by: Elam Works on September 19, 2019, 11:28:19 PM
Quote from: Kerrin
Have you any other photos you can share ?

Plenty; about seven 10 and 20hp Stanley engines that have passed through the workshop for various degrees of rebuilding. Plus plenty of other engine pictures found on the internet; research from when writing an article on the evolution of the 20hp engine. But this is a model engineering forum, not a full size engineering forum. Now if someone would get the proverbial thumb out and build a scale Stanley engine, I am sure I could find photos to illustrate examples of how they did it on the full size engines. I had in mind to do a 1/4 model myself, but not sure when I would be able to get to it. So next best thing is to goad someone else into building one and watch them do all the work. Live vicariously!

Quote from: crueby
Doug, does the cutter mover back and forth, as on a shaper, or does it spin as well??

The cylinder block is mounted in the mighty 24" Cincinnati shaper. If I hadn't cropped the view, you would have seen more of the clapper box. As you can probably see, the bit is tipped over so the entire port face cannot actually be done in one setting. The tool has to be tipped over the other way, the surface touched off and finished. Then you lap the faces. Originally, the port faces were slightly more proud and I think they were able to go in with a bull- or broad-nose tool and plane the surface in one tool setting (tool normal to the surface). There just being enough room for the radius of the tool to run off the end of the port surface. Stanley seemed to has designed many aspects of the engine for one or none rebuilding episodes. So the second time you cut the port face you need to angle the tool bit to get right to the ends of the port face and still be able to work through the access opening. On the third re-cut you are 'up the creek without a paddle' because the port face plane now extends beyond the circumference of the access port thread's minor diameter. There is really not enough room inside to back the tool off the surface and stop short of the threads, unless you had a tool bit that was almost zero thickness. Of course, maybe there was a lot more meat on the port face originally, and by the time we saw them they already had several re-facings. 

The cylinder bores are another area where Stanley was ungenerous. You get one light re-bore before you start to bore out the threads at each end for the cylinder heads. Usually though, by the time you have gone through two re-bores something else on the cylinder has broken (like the mounting ears), or the port faces are terminal.

-Doug
Title: Re: Possible next projects
Post by: Elam Works on September 19, 2019, 11:45:19 PM
You may have already seen these two pictures that I found on the internet. I forgot that there actually is some room at the heel end of the cut. But not as much as first appears. Thinking back ten years, I think the problem was once you factored in the diameter of the tool holder (about an 1-1/4" dia. in this case) and the width of the tool bit (3/8") the toolholder would be rubbing on the side of the access port before the bit would clear the surface. That is if the bit were normal to the surface so that it could all be planed in one setting. Thought was perhaps Stanly had a 'T" head tool bit that reached out past each side to increase the effective cutting width in relation to the width of the tool holder. But then again if the port face were thicker, that might have been unnecessary.

-Doug
Title: Re: Possible next projects
Post by: crueby on September 20, 2019, 12:12:25 AM
Great info Doug - many thanks! Even though this is model construction not full size, knowing how they did it definitely helps out.   :cheers:


For the model version, I think I will still go with the separate center section idea, since at a smaller scale (not sure what scale yet, but it has to fit on my Sherline tools) the opening in the round port gets tight pretty fast, and as mentioned there would be no way to drill the ports themselves when starting with bar stock vs castings.

Current thinking on next projects order:
- RC excavator (farily short-term project)
- Marion-valved engine (slightly longer project)
- Stanley engine (involved, but nothing like Marion was)
- Holly pumping engine (long term project)
-
Title: Re: Possible next projects
Post by: Steamer5 on September 20, 2019, 12:54:14 AM
Hi Doug,
 Thanks for the info, those 2 photos of the sectioned engine are great!

Now as to not posting more photos since this is a model site... :thinking: :thinking: oh yeah they would be for research for Chris’s build!  :naughty:

Here’s the one Dads been working on....

Cheers Kerrin

Title: Re: Possible next projects
Post by: crueby on September 20, 2019, 01:54:59 AM
Hi Doug,
 Thanks for the info, those 2 photos of the sectioned engine are great!

Now as to not posting more photos since this is a model site... :thinking: :thinking: oh yeah they would be for research for Chris’s build!  :naughty:

Here’s the one Dads been working on....

Cheers Kerrin
Interesting, that one has a screw on square port vs the screw in round port. I've read that Stanley changed their designs frequently, is this a Stanley or another brand? The screw on portal would be much easier to make...   :thinking:
Title: Re: Possible next projects
Post by: Elam Works on September 20, 2019, 02:16:45 AM
The very early Stanleys (c1898-99) used a vertical engine under the seat, with a chain drive down to the rear axle (note the sprocket). This was the design that they sold to Locomobile, and I believe they continued building it with little change. Then when Stanley reentered the market they had a new layout with the engine horizontal and geared directly to the rear axle. Neatly avoiding all the patents they had sold to Locomobile! I don't know if these really early 'new' Stanleys c1902-03 had a cast frame, or they had already had the four-rod frame. Certainly they had the latter by 1905. The horsepower was jumping practically every model, 5hp, 6hp, 8hp; then finally when they got to 10hp the engine design standardized somewhat. From then on the design changed only in detail, and got scaled up to the 20hp and then 30hp engines. Last significant design change was after Stanley sold the firm (again) and the new company boxed the lower end in with a cast aluminum panel and sheet metal enclosure and changed from roller bar to trunk type crosshead guides. That would have been 1926-27.

-Doug
Title: Re: Possible next projects
Post by: Steamer5 on September 20, 2019, 07:42:19 AM
Hi Chris,
 The engine comes from the White Steam car pictured back a bit. There are no markings on the engine to confirm this, however the owner is pretty certain that it is.
Unfortunately Dad didn’t take ANY pictures as he did the rebuild...... it came to him in bits, luckily the engine in the car is close to identical, so he had a great reference for the rebuild, although getting some of the internals sorted, with out taking the running engine apart was fun!

Doug,
 The background is fascinating! Keep it coming! I’m sure Chris will be as appreciative as me !


Cheers Kerrin
Title: Re: Possible next projects
Post by: crueby on September 20, 2019, 01:15:32 PM
....

Doug,
 The background is fascinating! Keep it coming! I’m sure Chris will be as appreciative as me !


Cheers Kerrin
Yes!
Title: Re: Possible next projects
Post by: crueby on September 20, 2019, 02:39:06 PM
I found which issues of Live Steam had the Locomobile engine build by Salvatore Rubino in 1993. Saw a portion of a build based on it, and it looks like Rubino came up with a neat trick - he angled the port faces inside the steam chest by 45 degrees so that he could drill through the portal opening, which on that engine is a larger square. Thats pretty clever - it moved the passage into the cylinder around 45 degrees too. Lapping the valve faces could be done with the end of a bar, I guess.
 :thinking: :thinking: :thinking:
Title: Re: Possible next projects
Post by: ddmckee54 on September 20, 2019, 06:51:53 PM
So you/anybody could fix the engine a couple of times and then you're coming back to Stanley either for a new car, or major engine parts.  And they said planned obsolescence was a product of the last half of the 20th century... Stanley knew what they were doing.

Don
Title: Re: Possible next projects
Post by: cnr6400 on September 20, 2019, 07:14:16 PM
I think a lot of IC engine powered cars in the days of Stanley steamers had short life expectancy compared to cars today, so maybe Stanley were holding their own vs the car market without over engineering things and losing service revenue / new car sales. I've heard more than one car expert state that Model T Fords were expected to last two years or so between major rebuilds.

For example one good overheat / boil dry incident in a Model T Ford (and many other gas powered IC cars) of the day would result in the bearing metal melting and running into the crankcase.  :help: The transmission bands in a Model T in hilly towns burned out rapidly, and pin / gear wear in them was usually severe. I've seen them with 1/8" wear in the pinion holes / pins. Good luck keeping suspension parts in one piece on the roads of the day!   :facepalm:

Got the elves working on a shaper attachment for the Sherline yet Chris ?   :Lol: :ThumbsUp: :popcorn:
Title: Re: Possible next projects
Post by: crueby on September 20, 2019, 08:08:03 PM
I think a lot of IC engine powered cars in the days of Stanley steamers had short life expectancy compared to cars today, so maybe Stanley were holding their own vs the car market without over engineering things and losing service revenue / new car sales. I've heard more than one car expert state that Model T Fords were expected to last two years or so between major rebuilds.

For example one good overheat / boil dry incident in a Model T Ford (and many other gas powered IC cars) of the day would result in the bearing metal melting and running into the crankcase.  :help: The transmission bands in a Model T in hilly towns burned out rapidly, and pin / gear wear in them was usually severe. I've seen them with 1/8" wear in the pinion holes / pins. Good luck keeping suspension parts in one piece on the roads of the day!   :facepalm:

Got the elves working on a shaper attachment for the Sherline yet Chris ?   :Lol: :ThumbsUp: :popcorn:
Well, sort of. They keep saying they are working on it, but they spend an awful lot of time in watching TV...!
For the excavator project, I was doing some measurements on the leadscrew assemblies built from off-the-shelf robotics parts - decided to switch to a different excavator, a Volvo EX950E, which has a very similar overall size and design but it has a thicker/wider set of booms on it, which will let me fit the leadscrews inside while keeping it at a 1:15 scale. For the Cat, it would have needed to be at least 1:12. The overall size of the tracks and cab are close, just the booms are a lot beefier.
On the Marion valve engine, I went in and thickened up the bases for the bearings and the crosshead guides, and made the flywheel 8" diameter, all look more in proportion now. Thanks Jason!
Title: Re: Possible next projects
Post by: ddmckee54 on September 20, 2019, 10:18:55 PM
To build that Hydra sub you and the elves might have to step up your game a bit and make your own TEBLWC motors to mount in the nacelles.  (Totally Enclosed Brush-Less Water Cooled, nuthin' but the best for the Hydra sub - HAIL HYDRA!  Did I say that out loud?)

The rest would just be a variation on the sub stuff you've already done wouldn't it.

Don
Title: Re: Possible next projects
Post by: crueby on September 20, 2019, 10:26:15 PM
To build that Hydra sub you and the elves might have to step up your game a bit and make your own TEBLWC motors to mount in the nacelles.  (Totally Enclosed Brush-Less Water Cooled, nuthin' but the best for the Hydra sub - HAIL HYDRA!  Did I say that out loud?)

The rest would just be a variation on the sub stuff you've already done wouldn't it.

Don
That is one of the options we (am working with another member in the club) are looking at. Other options include running drive shafts or flex cables out from motors in the central hull, and using bevel gears from one motor in the center hull. The nacelles are a couple inches across, so the motor can't block too much of the cross section or the water flow is too low. Brushless have plenty of power, but they draw a LOT of current, so run time is a lot lower than brushed motors (most of our subs get 1.5 to 2.5 hours of run time off brushed motors). Once we get some experiments done, we will settle on a drive technology, that will determine the final size of the hulls. Then can carve a master for the molds and make fiberglass hulls. The cockpit and maybe the fins will be 3D printed.
Title: Re: Possible next projects
Post by: crueby on September 20, 2019, 10:38:41 PM
Got the linear actuators for the excavator model built up (these parts are all from ServoCity, made for robotics). The motor is a 176 rpm output gearmotor, shaft is a 4-start 6mm leadscrew with a follower running in the aluminum channel, I added a steel plate on top of the follower and limit switches on the outside. The switches are Normally Closed, with diodes on them, so they stop any motion in that direction but allow it to reverse. It will be driven by a 12v battery and solid state RC speed control. It seems to have lots of power in tests off a power supply, so will coninue on with the build. These units (one for main boom, one for outer boom, one for bucket) will be inside the booms, with wires leading back to the radio/ESC's in the main cab. Another motor will drive the cab round and round on the tracks, and there will be a motor on each track driving via .250 bike-style chain - power to those motors will have to go through a 360 degree rotating power spindle in the center of the cab.

(https://i.postimg.cc/nrcCCPg8/IMG-5649a.jpg)
view of leadscrew - slot in plate on traveler will have a link going up to the dummy hydraulic piston on the outside of the boom.

(https://i.postimg.cc/x8xqHPVX/IMG-5650a.jpg)

Title: Re: Possible next projects
Post by: cnr6400 on September 21, 2019, 12:13:21 AM
Great looking actuator Chris! You'll be piling chicken grit with it in no time.  :ThumbsUp: :ThumbsUp: :ThumbsUp: :popcorn: :popcorn: :popcorn:

Re the elves TV habit - One good fast slew with the Marion with bucket and dipper all the way out, right into that Elf-O-Vision unit would solve the issue - but your beer bill might go up again........ and there would be some bad language from Bucket Bob and crew..... :cussing: :cussing: :cussing: :cussing: :cussing: :cussing: :cussing: :mischief:
Title: Re: Possible next projects
Post by: crueby on September 21, 2019, 12:18:51 AM
Great looking actuator Chris! You'll be piling chicken grit with it in no time.  :ThumbsUp: :ThumbsUp: :ThumbsUp: :popcorn: :popcorn: :popcorn:

Re the elves TV habit - One good fast slew with the Marion with bucket and dipper all the way out, right into that Elf-O-Vision unit would solve the issue - but your beer bill might go up again........ and there would be some bad language from Bucket Bob and crew..... :cussing: :cussing: :cussing: :cussing: :cussing: :cussing: :cussing: :mischief:
An i would wake up in the morning sewn to the mattress!
Title: Re: Possible next projects
Post by: cnr6400 on September 21, 2019, 03:15:53 AM
They've got sewing kits AND beer? We gotta talk, before you start the next project!    :lolb:
Title: Re: Possible next projects
Post by: Art K on September 21, 2019, 03:54:33 AM
Chris,
I have been following along but haven't said much, if anything. What about a Doble steam engine like in Jay Leno's Garage. Two cylinder gear driving the rear differential. Yeah I know late and foaming at the mouth, and talking incoherently. :ROFL:
Art
Title: Re: Possible next projects
Post by: crueby on September 21, 2019, 01:22:15 PM
Chris,
I have been following along but haven't said much, if anything. What about a Doble steam engine like in Jay Leno's Garage. Two cylinder gear driving the rear differential. Yeah I know late and foaming at the mouth, and talking incoherently. :ROFL:
Art
Hi Art,


I had not heard of the Doble engines before, just went and looked them up. More amazing engineering. They would have the same issues for me to build in small scale to get the pots and passages made, with the center mounted valves.
Title: Re: Possible next projects
Post by: Elam Works on September 21, 2019, 04:43:23 PM
Quote from: crueby
I had not heard of the Doble engines before, just went and looked them up. More amazing engineering.

Well you could start on something simple like the lubricator pump (see attached)…

-Doug

Title: Re: Possible next projects
Post by: crueby on September 21, 2019, 09:35:21 PM
Quote from: crueby
I had not heard of the Doble engines before, just went and looked them up. More amazing engineering.

Well you could start on something simple like the lubricator pump (see attached)…

-Doug
Gulp!!  I'll leave that one for Zee!
Title: Re: Possible next projects
Post by: Art K on September 22, 2019, 03:37:15 AM
Now look what I started.
Art
Title: Re: Possible next projects
Post by: ddmckee54 on October 22, 2019, 02:39:26 PM
Chris:

Regarding the Hydra sub, I stumbled on this last night and thought you might be interested.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dZL0jy6-SMs (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dZL0jy6-SMs)


Don
Title: Re: Possible next projects
Post by: crueby on October 22, 2019, 03:09:54 PM
Chris:

Regarding the Hydra sub, I stumbled on this last night and thought you might be interested.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dZL0jy6-SMs (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dZL0jy6-SMs)


Don
Yup, we had seen that sub - we were talking about it at the sub run at the pool on Sunday. Its an interesting take on it, but we are going to stick with getting the props functional out in the nacelles where they belong rather than in the center hull. His proportions on the hull and cockpit are not right either, but it is an interesting hull. We have been experimenting with flexible cable drive from the centerline out to the nacelles, I have one more version to mock up and test with the power supply with a thinner cable - if that pans out like expected then we can settle on a size for the model and print out patterns. Making it as a 3D printed version for the real model is pretty costly - I am headed towards a set of ply rings with a thin skin of 1/64 ply and fiberglass. May print the cockpit frame though....
 :ThumbsUp:
Title: Re: Possible next projects
Post by: mnay on October 22, 2019, 07:43:43 PM
Crueby,
I don't check the forum very often.  this is referring back to the question about the ports on the locomobile engine from Live Steam Magazine.  I scaled it up x1.5, but the ports were easy because they were milled at an angle.

Sorry to be so slow answering. 

Is the plan for the Stanley engine you have available?

thanks Mike
Title: Re: Possible next projects
Post by: crueby on October 22, 2019, 08:06:09 PM
Crueby,
I don't check the forum very often.  this is referring back to the question about the ports on the locomobile engine from Live Steam Magazine.  I scaled it up x1.5, but the ports were easy because they were milled at an angle.

Sorry to be so slow answering. 

Is the plan for the Stanley engine you have available?

thanks Mike
Hi Mike, very interesting to see those photos. I can see how angling the port faces makes it possible to mill/drill them. Did you lap the faces somehow, or just use the milled finish? I am used to being able to lap the faces on a flat plate to a nice smooth surface, but am sure there are many other ways to do it. I found copies of the magazines with that build article from a seller on ebay, but the seller was completely un-responsive so I did not end up buying them.

The plans I have were given to me by a friend who drew them from an old engine, I do not own the rights to be able to sell or give them away, not sure if he would be agreeable to that (will ask next time I talk with him). The plans are very detailed, but do have mistakes and gaps, will need some fine tuning if I do build it. The fallback position would be to do the piston-valve version, though I do prefer the slide valves.
 :cheers:
Title: Re: Possible next projects
Post by: ddmckee54 on October 23, 2019, 05:47:01 PM
Making it as a 3D printed version for the real model is pretty costly

How so?  Other than the time required to print the stinkin' things, from you own 3D models the FDM 3D printed parts would be almost dirt cheap.  Unless you have someone else print them, then it could get expensive, especially in SLA.

Don
Title: Re: Possible next projects
Post by: crueby on October 23, 2019, 06:08:12 PM
Making it as a 3D printed version for the real model is pretty costly

How so?  Other than the time required to print the stinkin' things, from you own 3D models the FDM 3D printed parts would be almost dirt cheap.  Unless you have someone else print them, then it could get expensive, especially in SLA.

Don
Thats what I meant, dont have a printer so would have to hire it out. The model will be in the 30" to 40" range, depending on the drive we come up with. I just got a prototype cable drive working, looks like it may be on the smaller end of the scale, need to spend some time in Fusion...
Title: Re: Possible next projects
Post by: mnay on October 23, 2019, 07:18:02 PM
Crueby,
On the locomobile engine I just milled the ports and then polished them a little with a block and sandpaper.    If your friend gives you permission I would love to have a copy of the Stanley plans and would pay copy/shipping costs.

Keep us posted if you build one. 

I will be making some kind of little steam car with this engine.  It runs well.  I milled the arms/crosshead rails from solid 1144 steel.  It took a few hours.   The cross drilling to the ports was nerve racking.

Thanks, Mike
Title: Re: Possible next projects
Post by: crueby on October 23, 2019, 07:48:04 PM
Crueby,
On the locomobile engine I just milled the ports and then polished them a little with a block and sandpaper.    If your friend gives you permission I would love to have a copy of the Stanley plans and would pay copy/shipping costs.

Keep us posted if you build one. 

I will be making some kind of little steam car with this engine.  It runs well.  I milled the arms/crosshead rails from solid 1144 steel.  It took a few hours.   The cross drilling to the ports was nerve racking.

Thanks, Mike
Thanks for the info!  How big is your engine overall?
Title: Re: Possible next projects
Post by: mnay on October 23, 2019, 07:53:50 PM
It is about a foot tall.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Orpe3QFdWLQ

see it running on this link.  I will try to track down my drawings.
I scaled it up 1.5 from the drawings in Live Steam
I runs rough in the movie because there is no flywheel
Title: Re: Possible next projects
Post by: crueby on October 23, 2019, 07:57:22 PM
It is about a foot tall.

[youtube1]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Orpe3QFdWLQ[/youtube1] 

see it running on this link.  I will try to track down my drawings.
I scaled it up 1.5 from the drawings in Live Steam
I runs rough in the movie because there is no flywheel
Very nicely done!!
Title: Re: Possible next projects
Post by: crueby on October 23, 2019, 09:18:45 PM
Mike, I checked on the plans, he says they are available from the Stanley Museum

http://www.stanleymuseum.org/
I dont see them on their website, so you would have to contact them. They used to sell copies for around $65, that may have changed. He said there are two versions, one done in the 1990s and a newer version from a 3D model done in 2015. The set I borrowed is the 2015 version.
Title: Re: Possible next projects
Post by: mnay on October 25, 2019, 05:10:28 PM
thanks.  I will do some investigating
Mike
SimplePortal 2.3.5 © 2008-2012, SimplePortal