Model Engine Maker
Supporting => Additive Machining => Topic started by: Jo on January 06, 2020, 01:27:38 PM
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You don't get much for £70 but I decided as a learning tool I thought it was worth a punt: www.ebay.co.uk/sch/i.html?_from=R40&_trksid=p2047675.m570.l1311.R3.TR3.TRC1.A0.H0.X3d+printer+prusa.TRS0&_nkw=3d+printer+prusa+i3&_sacat=0.
So this morning I became the proud owner of a box of Mechanio that I hope will go together to make a 3D printer. I immediately realised there was no instructions :facepalm: However having found the CD with the software on it, it also has extensive build instructions :)
So we are off on the build... The frame is made of plywood :thinking: and it is clamped together using M3 Allen screws through some slots already in the wood. I wonder if some wood glue would help with rigidity :noidea:
Jo
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Hi Jo,
Will be following your activities related to this 3D printer closely, especially the printing applications.
Mike
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Hope to see this printing by tea time (today) :) :)
Expect to see modifications occurring from tomorrow onwards.
Have fun. We are all looking forward to see what goodies you produce. I still need to get to grips with my CAD package to be able to make good use of my printer.
Colin
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I too will be following this journey closely, Jo. Especially when you get the "black magic" of designing and printing parts. :thinking:
Jim
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I have some "dark wood glue" that looks like it may suit your ply ;)
Look forward to the first printed elephant :)
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The start of another addiction.
I am on my second kg of filament since buying my Ender 3 Pro in July. A great tool for the workshop, making brackets, right angle viewers, prototypes, dial indicator holders, collet racks, etc. Like a shaper, it beavers away whilst you are productively busy doing something else.
Gerrit
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I don't think it will be printing by tomorrow as there are some connectors missing. The missing crimp from the power supply cable was easily dealt with. The 3 pin PCB connector is not as easy. Does anyone know what these are called so I can order one? The other option is to see if I have an old bit of electronics with a 3 pin connector on it :noidea:
Some of the brackets you need to attach are hiding, it took me a while to find the supports for the bars as they were already on the bars ::)
It is slowly coming together.... might get it finished tonight but need that missing connector for the bed end stop :thinking:
Hi Gerrit: I purchased 2 Kgs of PLA and 1KG of ABS for learning with. I am guessing this is another of the usual printer thingies where you can buy a printer for £20 with next to no ink in it and the ink costs £30 :ShakeHead:
Jo
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is this what you need
https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/XH-2-54-2-20-Pin-Way-PCB-Connector-Straight-Pin-Header-Female-Socket-Pack-of-10/173397131915?var=472727292478&hash=item285f46428b:m:mw5frhjErM4JCTdquEXOO6g
and male
https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/XH2-54-Straight-Right-Angle-Pin-Header-Female-Male-Housing-Connector-2P3P4P-16P/172659273616?hash=item28334b6f90:m:mM6znl3_UUOwf1fnjTOjwNA
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If they're like the standard (?) XH series JST doins CPC have them.
Look @ CPC # CN14273 crimp contact 3p each 50 off min.
CPC # CN14243 housing 4p each 10 off min.
Dave
RH Page; bottom left ... :ThumbsUp:
https://www.easyflip.co.uk/CPC_Catalogue/?page=1339
PS Does your 3-pin header look like this .. or am I gawping at the wrong pic. ???? :facepalm:
https://cpc.farnell.com/jst-japan-solderless-terminals/b3b-xh-a-lf-sn/header-vertical-3way/dp/CN14254?CMP=CPC-ebooks-BIGBOOK201
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William is fast becoming an expert in printing... We've enjoyed ours no end. 70 pounds is cheap!
Dave
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Those look like the connector beasties but I am not waiting for them to turn up on the slow boat from China :ShakeHead: As this is the second time I have needed one of these I've ordered a box of 560 of various sizes of them should be here in a couple of days (not going to try getting the Chinese supplier to replace them could be waiting ages) My crimping tool will be a pair of pliers ::)
Any suggestions Dave, or any one else, on fun things to make I am all ears. I believe a bezel is on the order list so far.
I am calling an end to the day... It is wired up and the wiring looks like that in the manual :lolb: As a retired Electronics engineer it is not staying like that :hellno: I am going to read the manual now, then more tomorrow...
Jo
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The following link goes to my page on building a Prusa 3 printer. http://daaseberga.se/projs/3D/PrusaBuild/BuildIntro-se.html (http://daaseberga.se/projs/3D/PrusaBuild/BuildIntro-se.html)
The document and other info is at the end of the page. Unfortunately in this case, the page is written in Swedish, but the documetns are not. Hope it may provide something useful.
/Peter
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Spaghetti for dinner tonight :) :) :)
Looks fun, one of the many things I still need to learn like 3D CAD and CNC :old:
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Any suggestions Dave, or any one else, on fun things to make I am all ears. I believe a bezel is on the order list so far.
Best start looking through your casting sets to see if any are missing aluminium parts you can cast and start printing some patterns for when the oven is done. It's got to be more satisfying than just printing trinkets.
Also just a simple 25mm cube so you can measure it and see if you need to callibrate any of the axis to get close to size and get a feel for any shrinkage that you will need to allow for in future.
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If the filament does not stick to the bed, prints sometimes come out looking like that. :lolb:
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Jo:
A pair of pliers WILL work as a crimping tool, but it's sooooo much nicer to use the proper crimper. The tool won't cost much more than the assortment of connectors that you got.
Just be sure that you buy a crimper that is specifically for the 2.54mm pitch that the JST connectors use. Don't believe it if it says it is suitable for JST and Dupont connectors. A crimper with dies for a Dupont connector will slice the end off of a JST terminal - DAMHIK! I bought a couple of Dupont style crimpers before I tumbled onto that fact.
As a not yet retired electrical engineer I can sympathize with your opinion of the wiring, when I built my 3D printer the wiring looked like a rat's nest at first too. If you don't already have some, get an assortment of Dupont connectors too, they'll come in handy for cleaning up the mess, and for when you want to add the bells and whistles like LED work lights and part cooling fans.
Don
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I am calling an end to the day... It is wired up and the wiring looks like that in the manual :lolb: As a retired Electronics engineer it is not staying like that :hellno: I am going to read the manual now, then more tomorrow...
Jo
Back in my world, when I was working at Tektronics, all the Electronic Engineers wiring looked like that................. it was up to us Electronic Technicians to make it look nice. :LittleDevil:
Jo, I'm really interested to see how you get from an idea, to designing, to programing, to the finished part. :thinking:
Jim
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I've been having a little further fiddle with it ::)
It happily drives the X and Y axis using the built in controller but that missing connector is the one that controls the Z axis i.e. the one that sets the print head height so until I find a replacement connector or the new one turns up there will be no printing :(
Edit: I tried further attempts with the Z axis and the wires are connected to the push to break terminals on the limit switch. Hence without the connections in place the printer is thinking it is already at the bottom ready to print and backs the head off a couple of mm to start with.
Jo
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If it's a JST-XH I may have some spares (or even some pigtails, which would side-step the crimp tool issue). Ping me a photo and If I have something I might drop it over tomorrow morning (I don't go back to work until wednesday).
AS
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Here's a link to a thread (on another forum :embarassed:) where I discuss the accuracy achievable from a 25mm cube. The thread also contains the usual naysayer, who I properly stitched up. Although being rude about the printers and finish, and claiming all sorts of expertise, he finally admitted in a PM that he had no idea how to use one.
https://www.model-engineer.co.uk/forums/postings.asp?th=88453&p=1 (https://www.model-engineer.co.uk/forums/postings.asp?th=88453&p=1)
Don't know why the pictures don't show. I may have deleted them in a long forgotten fit of pique.
I've used my 3D printer for production parts (in XT for the higher glass transition temperature) for remote gas sensing and recording equipment we sell:
(https://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10022/normal_Production_Parts_MEM.JPG)
Some of the parts would be very difficult to machine, and production quantities don't justify injection moulding:
(https://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10022/normal_Lofted_Part_MEM.JPG)
Other odd areas have been press tooling:
(https://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10022/normal_Press_Tooling_1.JPG)
And the gear change for my traction engine, after I'd re-designed it, as the drawings were a fantasy:
(https://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10022/normal_Gear_Change_MEM.JPG)
The 3D printed gear change worked perfectly from the off, unlike the metal version that took me weeks to get going.
I like to prototype parts before I machine in metal to check form and fit. Like these hollow pistons for the traction engines:
(https://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10022/normal_Hollow_Pistons_4_MEM.JPG)
And an internal gear and pinion, just out of curiosity:
(https://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10022/normal_Internal_Gears_MEM_1.JPG)
If you can draw it you can print it. For most of my printing I use PLA unless I need higher temperature capability. Never got on with ABS; darn stuff wouldn't stick to the heated baseplate and seemed to suffer for distortion.
Andrew
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If it's a JST-XH I may have some spares (or even some pigtails, which would side-step the crimp tool issue). Ping me a photo and If I have something I might drop it over tomorrow morning (I don't go back to work until wednesday).
AS
This is the missing connector Pete, if you have any it would be very useful and avoid delays :)
Work :paranoia:
Jo
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If you can draw it you can print it. For most of my printing I use PLA unless I need higher temperature capability. Never got on with ABS; darn stuff wouldn't stick to the heated baseplate and seemed to suffer for distortion.
Andrew
Thanks Andrew,
I am assuming that this cheap printer will have various alignment of layer issues but for the sort of thing I am likely to normally need it for it does not matter.
Jo
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You probably already know this...
I don't know what software you're going to use, but there's generally quite a few settings to figure out.
Temperature (obviously). It can differ depending on the material you're printing.
Thickness of layer.
Flatness/squareness of bed to printer head.
Speeds and gear ratios. For calibration it's useful to run the head in both directions of each axis to get the gear ratio.
Etc.
That initial print of a 'dam' around the part is essential.
The same material from two different suppliers may require different settings.
Frustration will come. My 1st 3D printer was a kit and a subsequent nightmare (for me).
Besides the settings was getting the bed set up so the first layers would stick. Some people use blue masking tape, hair spray, or glue sticks.
My 2nd 3D printer was an out-of-the box system which was great so long as I used the same vendor's material.
The bed is of some material that I've had few problems with the part sticking to it. I have no idea what it is. Mine is a Lulzbot Mini.
You have more patience than I so you'll be good.
As for ideas...I've printed a bunch of stuff for the shop to hold tools, oscilloscope probes, etc.
Printed a disk to cover the 'eye' on the kitchen fan because every time we changed the channel the TV, the overhead fan would turn on.
Hooks to hang up our Christmas stockings. Hooks to hang up our bathing suits.
Several mechanical system prototypes like a rower. Also a cruddy finger treadle engine that my grand-daughter loved.
Even some two color signs to warn people to open the garage door slowly.
You'll get lots of ideas.
BTW Every time I go out for curry...I think of you.
Bummer I retired before I could get back to the UK for a meet up.
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This is the missing connector Pete, if you have any it would be very useful and avoid delays :)
I have one in the form of a spare 2s balance lead that I'll never be using - you can just join the wires (solder, terminal block or whatever).
I'll drop it over in the morning - let me know if you also want some heatshrink to cover the solder joints with.
AS
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Those darn chickens and eggs, always in the wrong order - if you had the printer going you could print the connector housing... :censored:
Interested to see how this all comes out!
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You will have little problem with the PLA but the ABS requires more heat bed and nozzle. Better if its an enclosed printer for that stuff. My PLA printer is an open frame like yours and even the same frame as yours. My ABS is a da vinci I bought years ago and it prints that well. My 3rd open frame printer I have converted to laser cutter and am playing with it currently. Its a disease I tells ya, infectious disease.
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I'll drop it over in the morning - let me know if you also want some heatshrink to cover the solder joints with.
Thanks Pete :) I have heat shrink already
Jo
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Thank you Pete for dropping that off it is all fitted and hopefully we can move forward.
Soft soldering on the extension wires to the correct connector went ok but then I still found the printer still would not home (go to its default starting point) so out came the measuring meter and I found the wire on the same switch was broken.
I decided that I would check that the two vertical threaded shafts was correctly set up by using a level before finally trying to home the head and realised that not only was the stop :censored: but where I had screwed in the head meant the thread had to extend a long way. So I unbolted the printer head and used the alternative mounting holes at the bottom of the bracket which raised the head by about 20mm. I am not sure if I appreciate the drive mechanism for the print material it looks just to be a gear drive onto the side of the print material :thinking:
I have tried to neaten up the cables but as every thing moves in every direction there is not a lot you can do. The importance of doing this was shown when on trying to demonstrate the homing to Pete a wire trapped itself between the carriage and the stop switch :ShakeHead: .
We may be ready to go :naughty:
Jo
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Those look like the connector beasties but I am not waiting for them to turn up on the slow boat from China :ShakeHead: As this is the second time I have needed one of these I've ordered a box of 560 of various sizes of them should be here in a couple of days (not going to try getting the Chinese supplier to replace them could be waiting ages) My crimping tool will be a pair of pliers ::)
Any suggestions Dave, or any one else, on fun things to make I am all ears. I believe a bezel is on the order list so far.
I am calling an end to the day... It is wired up and the wiring looks like that in the manual :lolb: As a retired Electronics engineer it is not staying like that :hellno: I am going to read the manual now, then more tomorrow...
Jo
William has been working on his combat robot. 1 pound ant weight ...all plastic. He's been working on getting the most out of PLA as it's cheap and if you use the right parameters, is pretty damn strong. Additionally, not all PLA is created equal and you can get wildly different performance and usability from different suppliers and print parameters. I'll talk to William and see if he can share his experience with the group....All I can say is when the 1.75" weapon drum spins up to its full 30,000 rpm...and then nails a small block of aluminum.....I've already taken 3 steps back standing behind the door :o.....and the drum and the rest of the robot are printed from PLA. It takes some chunks out, but it keeps going....the balance suffers.
I've been using it as a training tool for William, so he can understand the development process, and as a prototyping tool, for tooling ect. It's nice to noodle machine set ups, and you can plan your order of operations and tooling by making models of the partially machined part to check set ups ect.
Dave
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Thanks Dave all useful information.
I have been trying to level the bed... And as you can see I have pulled the printer apart :(
I initially thought the problem was that the piece of plyboard under the hot plate was warped and as I tried to use the adjusters it was just pulling up the X axis but further investigation showed that the X axis guide bar is warped as is the front panel :ShakeHead:
As the bars are 8mm I am going to replace the bottom pair with M8 Studding. If I can find 8mm Stainless long enough I will replace the top two bars with solid. This will give it some weight which should help with the twisting action I have been noticing. I may also replace the end panel with a piece of Ali if I can find a suitable bit: I think I was given some of that revolting Ali which is like soft cheese to work with this is an ideal use for it :ThumbsUp:
Jo
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Jo:
Pete tried to warn you, but it was too late, you're already doomed by the 3D printer madness.
You've got the same problem with the front plate that I had on my first printer. The tension from the Y axis drive belt causes the plate to bow, your idea to replace it with a piece of aluminum is a good one. I printed a thick block for mine that does the job. I found it on Thingiverse, I searched for upgrades to my printer.
Printer maintenance is very important, keep those linear bearings well lubed, otherwise they'll chew up the soft guide rails that are supplied with the kit - DAMHIK! Keeping the bearings lubed also goes a long way to quieting the printer. I don't mind the stepper motors singing to me, but I can't stand listening to the linear bearings rattling along. I wound up replacing all the linear bearings on my printer after about 6 months. They weren't worn out, just cheap and extremely noisy.
You might be able to straighten the guide rail, if the kit had hardened rails I'd be amazed. But if you've got replacement 8mm rail/rod it'll probably be better than what was supplied with the kit.
Jo, you're already deep into the 3D printer modifications rabbit hole, welcome to the madness.
Don
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Thanks Don
Printer maintenance is very important, keep those linear bearings well lubed, otherwise they'll chew up the soft guide rails that are supplied with the kit - DAMHIK! Keeping the bearings lubed also goes a long way to quieting the printer. I don't mind the stepper motors singing to me, but I can't stand listening to the linear bearings rattling along. I wound up replacing all the linear bearings on my printer after about 6 months. They weren't worn out, just cheap and extremely noisy.
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Jo, you're already deep into the 3D printer modifications rabbit hole, welcome to the madness.
The linear bearings seem to have speed humps when I push the guide rods through them :ShakeHead: Yes it seems I will be doing a fair bit of modifications before any plastic is melted. Currently I have found a plate of Ali to mount the printer onto and my plan is to screw it down to keep it square and so that the guide bars do not move. I may also replace the bearings and then the bottom plate and on it goes :lolb:
I discussed this with Pete when he visited this morning, the money I paid really only paid for the steppers, electronics and the (probably pirated) software to run the thing. I have plenty of Ali so I can make a few bits. Maybe we should start a sweep stake on how long it will be before there are signs of Hot plastic ::)
Jo
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Sounds like the only hot plastic for a while will be your credit card for all the extra bits you need to get it going :LittleDevil:
Are you sure an disgruntled Elephant did not sit on that bar due to you neglecting castings :thinking:
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Jo,
The price you pay is related to what you receive, though a shame that the quality seems to be lacking a bit and hindering your ability to melt some plastic into recognisable shapes.
Will be most interesting to see, once the engineering modification stage is completed, how the printer will function in its "raison d'être" and I guess most of us are looking forward to that stage.
Mike
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Once you get the plastic melting you'll find that 3D printers are quite capable of making their own repair/upgrade parts. My kit 3D printer has a LOT of printed upgrade parts on it, as does my Wanhao D6 clone. I started out making parts that I got from Thingiverse. Then, once I got a little more familiar with 3D CAD, I went more to designing my own parts. Now I rarely use anything other than my own designs, that way I can control the tolerances and fit of the parts.
One thing that I didn't really consider at first is that we are extruding hot material, as it cools, it WILL shrink. If you are designing close fitting parts you will need to compensate for this. Either by scaling up the size of the part in your design, which I would think would just get confusing, or by using the slicing software to scale up the part.
If you've got somebody nearby with a printer it would REALLY help you to watch what they do when they print a part. Ask questions, pick their brain, the learning curve for an absolute beginner at this is REALLY steep. There are SO many things that can go wrong and cause a failed print that it gets really discouraging, I know from personal experience.
That said, there is NOTHING like peeling that first successful part off the build plate, even if it is just a calibration cube.
Don
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... the (probably pirated) software to run the thing ...
Actually, probably not pirated - there are two or three open source projects for the firmware that runs on the vast majority of 3d printers. Some printers use the open source versions as-is, while some make various modifications (which is allowed by the open source license).
One very important thing to check out, especially on a budget printer, is whether the firmware has the thermal runaway safeties enabled. These are bits of code that check to make sure that when heat is called for in the bed or in the print head, appropriate heat is sensed by the thermistors, and if not, shuts everything down. There have been some infamous examples of cheap printers that disabled these safeties (presumably because they were having issues with false triggering, and it was easier to disable the safety than to fix the instability). Without the safeties enabled, a loose connector on the thermistor can lead to the printer overheating the bed or print head ... and there have been tragic results in some cases (houses burnt down).
For designing items to print ... if you are already using 3d CAD software, you've already got everything you need. If not, there are some open source options that I like: FreeCAD and OpenSCAD. The former is a 3d CAD program that continues to be heavily developed; there are some quirks, but overall it is very capable, and there are tons of tutorials. The latter is a very different animal; it is not CAD software, but rather a programming environment in which you can assemble various solids (including joins and intersections) to make a part. There are times when I find the 3d CAD approach much easier, and other times when I find the OpenSCAD approach much easier.
Whatever software you use to develop the 3d model, you will probably want to save the results as an .STL file. (There are some newer formats which are far more robust ... but have yet to be implemented very widely.) From there you "slice" the model into the gcode commands that will tell the printer how to print. Your printer likely came with a slicer program ... but again, there's a good chance that it is a modification of an open-source slicer. There are two in particular that get used heavily by budget printers, Slic3r (yes, that's a 3 in the place of the e), and Cura. I prefer the former, but some prefer the latter; try them both and see which you like best.
And of course, any or all of the above may be things you already knew, and if so, I apologize! But hopefully they will be useful for someone reading this forum, to help someone get started - basically, the above is a quick overview of the key things that were part of my learning curve a couple of years ago.
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Jo,
Your printer is almost identical to mine and I would recommend one simple modification. Because the M8 lead screws for the Z axis generally run out, this creates Z wobble as the build gets higher resulting in offset layers and poor finishes on walls.
To get around this I simply made the nuts (shown in your fifth photo down, previous page) so that they are floating, simply by opening out the four holes each side that the retaining cap heads go through and then loosing them so that they are there to prevent rotation of the nuts only. This lets the screws and nuts orbit around as they raise but allows the printhead to follow the rods and linear bearings only.
Hope this helps and if you face any other problems, I'm happy to help.
See 1/4 Scale DFV Engine posts for some of my prints.
Jon
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:thinking: I think I understand that Jon. What you are saying is that the two vertical leadscrews have two nuts, which are held in place by four cap head screws. Because the threaded vertical rods are not straight ::) if the feed nuts can float side to side then any bend will not move the print head.
I had already noticed this problem and had been trying to put off thinking about how to solve it, thanks for the suggestion :ThumbsUp:
To avoid confusion: I have gotten what I expected so far with this printer. Like most Chinese made things: it is cheaply made with poor quality control but that has potential for improvement.
Jo
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You got it :ThumbsUp:
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Hi Jo,
As to the "time to first print" sweep it took me three days to assemble my GeeeTech Prusa i3 clone, then three weeks before it did anything useful. Apart from using Perspex instead of plywood my machine is very similar to yours.
JonC's suggested modification re the floating nuts is a good one, pretty much essential if the z drive threaded rods are as straight as mine weren't. There are ready-to-print models for these on Thingyverse.
The firmware may well be one of the versions of "Marlin", if so then this gives a lot of learning opportunities. "Awake" has already made one vital point re the thermal runaway detection and there are a lot of others to explore that will improve the performance (e.g. tuning the built-in PID control to reduce overshoot at sharp corners) but those may be best left for later! In my machine the controller is built around an Arduino and the firmware can be edited with the Arduino IDE but Visual Studio worked better for me.
Good luck - I'm hanging out to see the first calibration cube...
David
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To avoid confusion: I have gotten what I expected so far with this printer. Like most Chinese made things: it is cheaply made with poor quality control but that has potential for improvement.
Certainly true for the bottom end of the price scale but you can pay more for products from china that will work straight out of the box, Think I got my CNC mill cutting the day after I got the licence for the Mach3 and it also came with tidy wiring and put together but I would not normally consider that at the bottom of the price scale. ;)
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….. but I would not normally consider that at the bottom of the price scale. ;)
Not many people pay over £7K for a Chinese milling machine ::) at that price it cannot be claimed to be a DIY tool, it better be good.
I realised the first fib this morning on this machine: Yesterday I had been attempting to level the bed and managed to get the stepper motor to 190mm when it made a nasty noise :headscratch: What had happened was the head had hit the framework on the opposite side.. The machine is claimed to have a printing area of 220 by 220 - Yes the bed is that size but the printing area is only 190mm wide ::)
If they had set their slicer to 220mm print area rather than 190mm this would also account for why I have seen a few people complaining about these machines not printing in the centre of the bed but slightly off to one side ;)
Jo
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Not many people pay over £7K for a Chinese milling machine ::) at that price it cannot be claimed to be a DIY tool, it better be good.
Oh dear. :embarassed:
I made my first self-designed part within an hour of getting my 3D printer. Although to be fair I was already proficient in 3D CAD.
Andrew
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I made my first self-designed part within an hour of getting my 3D printer.
I assume you paid more than £70 for it and it came fully assembled ;)
Having taken my bottles for refilling recycling I was lucky and found a couple of glass fronted photo frames going for recycling that are the same size as the hot bed and have acquired them in case those four strips of sticky tape on the hot bed with their gaps between them :headscratch: are not fully suitable.
Jo
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As I said Jo it was not cheap (although I got it for free) but does show that the sweeping statement that "Most thing Chinese are cheaply made" is wrong, the cheap Chinese is cheaply made, the expensive can be very well made and there are lots differing levels between the two extreams. You pays your money and get what you pay for. As to whether the KX-3 was good I think JS used to make parts for Rolls Royce on one of his and even the more demanding Myford owners buying his dividing plates were happy with them :LittleDevil:
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I suspect the greater percentage of the number of items made/sold by the Chinese are cheap, so cheap that they do not attract import tax or postage costs :ShakeHead: They do make some big things like Aircraft Carriers as well but they are a bit more expensive and you can't get one delivered airfreight :lolb:
For the record: I would happily pay £70 for a KX-3 CNC milling machine or the same sum you paid for yours.. I can't recall if you had to actually had to pay for the shipping :noidea:
Jo
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Thousands of people worldwide have spent a little more and bought Creality (various models), Cetus and other 3D printers from China, done the partial assembly, and got good prints. I've been happy with my Ender 3 machine, it made good prints without difficulty. Most problems I had (quite minor ones) were due to my inexperience or iffy filament. Printer materials and build quality was quite good.
Seeing bent guide rods, missing connectors, and warped plywood parts on a printer right out of the box I would have returned it or binned it - goods clearly not fit for purpose. Not worth investing time on, either.
Get an Ender-3 or newer model Creality printer and I am sure you will have better luck and a positive experience with 3D printing. I have no connection to Creality except as a satisfied customer.
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I have reviewed the linear bearings and why they have a gritty movement: The linear bearings are for 8mm rod, the guide tubes are 7.8mm diameter = the bearings have too much movement. A piece of 8mm bar improves their linear movement no end.
Sadly I don't have two pieces of Stainless bar long enough (for now) so during this learning phase I will keep the undersize tubes with the plan to replace them ASAP. It is not difficult to replace them - you just need to undo the two nuts on the end of the two threaded rods that I am about to fit disconnect the belt tensioner from the end plate and they will slide out for replacement. But carful putting the new rods through the linear bearings as it is easy to knock one of the ball bearing out of their tracks :facepalm2: Luckily I caught the one I knocked out before it went missing.
I did consider going up to 10mm stainless which I do have enough of but I would need a new set of linear bearings and that means spending money :toilet_claw:
Jo
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Why would you "upgrade" with stainless rod, surely if you are going to the trouble to change things then the proper hardened, chromed and ground rod would make more sense as the balls in the bearings score stainless and even silver steel as it is softer which will result in a slack fit again. :Doh:
This sort of stuff
https://www.gearsandsprockets.co.uk/hardened-and-chromed-steel-rod-8mm-x-800mm.html
EDIT. Thinking about it a bit more if the rest of the build quality is reflected in the low price that you paid it may be better to stay with the 7.8mm rods as fitting anything better may see the whole thing start to bind and lock up as the slop is probably needed to compensate for the general low cost quality fits.
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Upgrading to 8mm Stainless rod is preferable on size grounds and cost. For now I am sticking with the tube (until I go raiding my Supplier's stocks :naughty: )
Start with something simple = the front plate. There is nothing exciting about this, originally it was two pieces of 5mm thick plywood screwed together so I am going with 10mm thick Ali and it is 50mm high. The two guide bars are 8 mm diameter spaced at 170mm apart and 6mm down from the top of the plate. I chose to drill these two holes 6.8mm (M8 tapping size) and then counter bore the inside 8mm to a depth of 5mm. The holes for the spacer bars (M8 studding) go at 170mm spacing 30mm down from the top. The last feature is a 3mm hole for the highly accurate belt adjuster :facepalm2:
I've attached the front panel but for now I have not turned up the centre support screws for the end of the guide bars: These will be M8 Allen screws with 4mm of thread and the end turned down to 6.8mm which will fit into the tubes :) I am not convinced I need to shape the plate up as it is functional as it is
Its a bit late in the day to start another bit but I have been looking at the other end. It has the stepper motor fitted to it by one of those high quality pieces of plywood with two M3 screws in the front. The fact that they provide two spares of this motor bracket tells me it is not fit for purpose :disappointed: so the bracket will be replaced with aluminium as well. I have not yet decided if I want to use a bit of angle or to just mount a bit of 10mm thick ali side ways on for the motor. The negative on the 10mm thick is that it is a bit close to the belt.. but I could mill a slot for the belt :thinking: I am going to think about it over night.
Jo
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I assume you paid more than £70 for it and it came fully assembled ;)
Correct on both counts. I needed something that worked out of the box, allowing me to concentrate on learning about printing parts rather than rebuilding the machine first.
Andrew
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Baby steps Jo, get it printing first, then fix one thing at a time. That way if it gets worse you'll know what to blame.
Except when it's messy wiring. You're a retired electronics engineer so you're probably just as offended by messy wiring as I am, at least when it's on our own stuff. So just like you, I think messy wiring has to GO - ASAP.
Don
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Thanks Don, I can almost smell the plastic ::)
Another piece of 50mm wide by 10mm thick ali drilled and tapped the same as the first plate. This time I have milled two grooves to fit around the main printer frame and made four square holes to allow the lugs to fit. A quick check fit then back to make the stepper motor mount and drill the holes for the limit switch.
I chose to make the motor mount out of a piece of 10mm thick Ali 40mm square (only after did I realise the motor was 41mm square so added a spacer :-X). The four mounting holes are M3 with a 25mm centre hole. I also undercut the side to give the belt a little more clearance but it does not need it.
Back to reassembling the printer: I have left the two outside M3 screws in place but the two long M8 threaded bars and the Ali plates have made the entire frame so much more ridged and the extra weight has provided a bit of stability :cartwheel:
Then I realised the limit switch screws are not M3 like the rest but M2.5 and I have tapped them M3 :wallbang: so I will have to make a offset spacer and I am telling myself it would be better to have the limit switch nearer the centre of the table anyway.
Next bit I do not like: The bed height adjusters are four M3 countersunk screws. My complaint is that the threads catch against the bottom plywood bed so adjustment is not very positive = these will have to be replaced. But not yet... I've added it to the list of things to do.
Hopefully after this cuppa and making that offset spacer I should be able to level the bed and move forward :)
Jo
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We have hot extruded plastic :pinkelephant:
Jo
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Jo:
If your printing PLA then your blue painters tape should give great part adhesion to the bed. I sometimes had a little trouble with a part not sticking in some areas of the tape. Apparently they sometimes get a little over-generous with the waxy release agent they use to keep the tape from sticking to itself. When that happens just give the tape a swipe with some isopropyl alcohol.
If you've never done it, leveling the bed is a 2 step process. First you level the bed to the print head, using a piece of paper as a feeler gauge - you know how they work. I use Post-it notes for this, that way I don't feel like I'm wasting quite so much paper. It really doesn't matter what type of paper you use, as long as you are consistent.(And don't use some really thick artsy-fartsy type paper either.) When you've got the bed level to the print head, then HOME your machine and check the print head height again. Adjust the Z axis limit to get the print head height set to that piece of paper again.
Don't repeat my nooby mistake of leveling the bed, homing the machine, RE-Leveling the bed because the print head height was wrong, and then wondering why my print head height changed the next time I homed the machine.
You'll want to keep the gaps between the tape to an absolute minimum, they'll show up in the printed part - as will the texture of the tape. I could live with the texture, but the seam lines were annoying.
Don
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Hi Jo,
Nice work!....Thou SOMEBODY doesn't look happy! Is he waiting for the metal printer to turn up?
Cheers Kerrin
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I don't see a dam around the part.
Usually the printer runs around the part to make sure extrusion has started.
What software are you using?
I've used S3licer (for generating the g-code) and Pronterface for communicating the code to the machine.
I'm not sure what Cura uses on my Lulzbot Mini. I use Cubify Design to create the part then export it to an STL file.
The STL file is then loaded into the Cura program and then print.
I also agree you should minimize the gaps between tape strips. The isopropyl alcohol wipe has worked too.
My printer though has a special bed and none of that is needed.
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We have a cube :) So the sides are a bit rough.. I need to loosen off the vertical nuts and see if that cures it. The measurements are X = 24.8mm, Y = 24.5mm and Z =25.1mm.
For £70 I think this printer is a bargain for knocking up things for the workshop where function is the most important factor :)
Surus remains undecided on this new toy. It could be that the thing it printed was not engine part shaped :Doh:
Jo
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Hi Zee,
I am using Cura for printing and yes there is a raft under the item. I will be using Cubify for designing items.
Jo
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May be rough, but it can be handy to print a complex part for reference and figuring out how to hold it while making the real one.
Print a cylinder looking chunk and spray paint it gray, maybe that will keep surus happy for a bit!
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Surus remains undecided on this new toy. It could be that the thing it printed was not engine part shaped :Doh:
Jo
Maybe if you print him out some peanuts? :thinking:
Nice work getting this "bad boy" up and running. :ThumbsUp:
What CAD program and what "Slicer" (new term I learned yesterday) program are you using?
Jim
PS: Looks like you answered my programming and slicer question while I was typing.
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Jo,
Good to see you are producing plastic at last.
Once you start producing useful things for the workshop, I'm sure we are all hoping the .stl files will appear where we can steal them. And then the rest of us who are not at present CAD wizards (and may well never be) can print the same useful objects on our printers.
My PRUSA MK3 is acting as a dust collector and a launchpad for the cat to get from desk to chair.
Colin
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Jo:
What size cube were you aiming for, I'm guessing a 25mm cube?
Couple of questions, at what speed are you trying to print, have you got a part cooling fan, and if you do - are you using it? If I don't use part cooling, the finish on the part suffers, it's especially noticeable in the corners. The finish also suffers if I'm trying to print too fast, the printer can do it, the part just looks like crap. The settings for controlling the cooling fan will be in your slicing program, as is the print speed.
My I3 clone didn't have a cooling fan when I first got it, that was one of the first upgrades I made. My D6 clone would have been better off without the stock cooling fan - it was that bad. Your machine probably uses the standard 3D printer brains/hardware, Marlin software and a Ramps board. The cooling fan programming is in the Marlin software, and the Ramps board should have 2 pins on it labeled FAN.
Welcome to the asylum,
Don
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Looks to be a real bargain, I count the pennies in my wallet...
Filing or sanding plastic is not always easy, the surface is rarely clean, is it possible to easily remove all marks from the plastic layers and the hairy appearance of the surface, if the part is to be moulded?
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PLA melts at a low temperature so it would be easy to smooth the surface with a hot knife or hot carving tool ;)
Jo
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Zephyrin,
Much will depend on both the print settings and the type of plastic used. You can vary the resolution by changing the size of print layers - a .3mm print layer allows faster printing of a part, but will lose some detail; a .1mm print layer gains more detail, but is much slower. I often print rough "drafts" at .25mm layer height, and then finalize at .1 or .15mm layer height - but note that the exact size of some details may change slightly when different layer heights are used.
At its very best, with speeds and acceleration curves tuned and careful selection of slicer settings and using a fine layer height, the print from an FFD printer of this sort can look quite good ... but even at its very best, the surface will always some striations from the layers.
If you use PLA plastic to print, you can sand the print to reduce the striations. It is tedious to sand by hand, but "dangerous" to power sand (dangerous in the sense that you can easily generate enough heat to distort the print).
If you use ABS to print, you can "vapor smooth" the print by putting it in a container with acetone fumes - but this will also soften any crisp edges or details that you may be wanting to preserve.
Another option is to use a heavy primer or some other mechanism to fill the striations. This of course means more work, but can also mean easier sanding.
For the absolute best resolution molds, you will have to go with a resin printer - fantastic resolution, very smooth, but messy and time consuming, and considerably more expensive, both in terms of the material (the resin) and the printer itself. That said, resin printers have come way down in price, and there now several available for $350 or so. Be aware that resin printers (especially in the budget range) generally have a much smaller print volume than typical FFD printers.
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Zephyrin:
Short answer - your choices for post-processing 3D prints are:
1 - Sanding
2 - Filling THEN sanding
3 - Vapor smoothing - if possible.
Long winded answer -
The post-processing required for a smooth part from an FDM/FFF (Fused Deposition Modeling/Fused Filament Fabrication) style printer can be extensive. As layer thickness decreases, so does the amount of post-processing. BUT, and it's a very big BUT, your print time goes up. The increase in print time is due not just to additional layers that need to be printed, but also because those thinner layers can be more finicky to print - requiring slower print speeds.
There are solvents that can be used to smooth the surface of the part. The solvent depends on the type of filament used to print the part. Probably the most common filament is PLA (PolyLactic Acid) is typically corn or sugar-cane based, which is probably why it doesn't have an objectionable smell while printing. PLA is fairly easy to print, it has relatively low printing temperature 190°-230°C and doesn't absolutely require a heated bed. But PLA has got a couple of major points against it. First, it's fairly brittle - as in when you crash your RC plane that's 3D printed out of PLA, it's probably going to break not bounce. Second if you leave your PLA 3D printed RC plane inside a hot car in the sun, it's probably not going to maintain its' sleek lines, relatively low glass and melting temperature - remember? Unfortunately the solvent for PLA is a fairly nasty chemical that I myself would rather not have anything to do with, so solvent smoothing is OUT - PLA is pretty much impervious to acetone or MEK.
ABS (Acrylonitrile Butadiene Styrene) is one of the next most popular filaments, it also has its' pluses and minuses. On the plus side, it's more durable than PLA, and it can be solvent smoothed with relatively benign solvents - primarily acetone.(Google "vapor smoothing") On the minus side, it's a styrene - it smells pretty bad when melting. The recommended printing temps are only slightly higher than PLC, 230°-250°C - but it pretty much requires an enclosure around the printer. While PLA doesn't REQUIRE a heated bed, ABS requires bed temps in the 100°-110°C range. So your RC plane 3D printed with ABS just MIGHT bounce when it crashes, and it will probably maintain its' sleek lines if left in a hot car in the sun. BUT, since ABS is a styrene, it can be vapor smoothed with acetone - your RC plane that's 3D printed out of ABS could be vapor smoothed and have a glass smooth surface.
Your choices for post-processing 3D prints are:
1 - Sanding
2 - Filling THEN sanding
3 - Vapor smoothing - if possible.
Don
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Jo :pinkelephant:,
Congratulations on getting the system to work and print something out, in such a s short space of time, relatively speaking.
Mike
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I'm somewhat surprised. In Jo's first post she mentioned the use of plywood. Did any one notice? She touched wood! :o
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I'm somewhat surprised. In Jo's first post she mentioned the use of plywood. Did any one notice? She touched wood! :o
However Zee............it didn't take her long to replace it with metal! :thinking:
Jim
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I'm somewhat surprised. In Jo's first post she mentioned the use of plywood. Did any one notice? She touched wood! :o
I did not use the brown stuff :hellno: It was masquerading as printer frame which I had expected to be black plastic rather than black painted brown stuff. I also have wood furniture so I am counting it as ok to touch ...and Zee you missed my manufacture of some Embroidery frames a while ago, in beech :-X
I have been pondering on the finish of printed items. I was wondering if the surface could be improved by the application of heat ( hot air gun or sit it in an air fryer for 10 seconds or so) or wiping with some sort of solvent :thinking:
Jo
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Look into acetone vapour bath.
Emphasis on vapour.
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Don't know if you could flame polish it like you do the edges of perspex etc but would have to be careful of any external corners that would get rounded and be the first to bubble.
If it is for patterns than a after an initial quick sand to get rid if the worse a few coats of high build filler primer such as U-POL "High-5" would work well. If it can smooth the finish on some of Grahams castings then a bit of plastic won't be a problem.
Probably best to spend some time with it doing a few more test pieces to see what gives the best printed finish before worrying about post finishing.
Looking forward to seeing the Mk3 cross sticth frame brackets by tea time ;)
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I am currently testing it with a 200DA collet/drill rack. Which has taught me some more things..
1. Treat heating the bed like heating the oven for cooking: just because it says it is up to temperature does not mean all of it is up to temperature, i.e. the edges of this print did not stick well. So it is worth heating the bed for 5 mins before starting the print cycle.
2, Magic tape can be used to help secure the raft to the hot bed if it starts coming off :-X
The print of the 25mm cube took 1 hour, it says this one will take over 5 hours :o
Jo
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She touched wood! :o
That's nothing - when a chink of stainless got thrown from the vice in my mill I was touching cloth...
AS
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The print of the 25mm cube took 1 hour, it says this one will take over 5 hours :o
Jo
What was that you were saying about CNC taking a long time :lolb:
Hopefully you will soon be able to leave it to its own devices and get a bit of workshop time in while things are printing before you forget what castings feel like ;)
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I use a Pritt stick on the heated bedplate to hold parts during printing. Works well, and once the bedplate has cooled after printing a light knock is enough to remove the print.
Andrew
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Thanks Andrew,
I did wonder about adding a sheet of glass (I acquired a bit). I am assuming the lifting this morning was my fault for not fully warming the bed. I wonder if it might be worth giving it a quilt while it warms :thinking:
Jo
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Ah, my printer does have a glass plate for the heated bedplate as standard. Over time they degrade and get scratched and chipped. I replaced mine last year, but that was after probably about a 1000 hours of printing.
Andrew
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Thanks Andrew :) I might have to plan to fit the glass plates then (and have to re-level the bed ::) )
The just over 5 hour print took 6 hours 10 mins. The end of the print that had not properly stuck resulted in that end being warped but the whole is not unusable. The print head does not "hit" the print if it does not stick as the bed is mounted on springs so effectively the bed gives to prevent any damage.
I intentionally made the holes for the collets 12.5mm rather than the needed 12mm and it is a tight fit, a 13mm hole would probably be better. But I think it was a good learning task. I might try it again using a Prit stick as Andrew suggested to see if it improves matters.
In the end collet holder weighs in at 35grams so 1Kg of filament is going to go a long way. I also tried hand filing the cube from yesterday and I can report that the PLA can be filed flat and polished to get rid of the printing marks 8)
Jo
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Nice result. Whats a 'Prit stick'? Sounds like something they use to keep MP's in line in Parliament...
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Nice result. Whats a 'Prit stick'? Sounds like something they use to keep MP's in line in Parliament...
glue stick (UHU and Elmer's are other brands. looks like a lipstick or lip gloss thingie)
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Nice result. Whats a 'Prit stick'? Sounds like something they use to keep MP's in line in Parliament...
glue stick (UHU and Elmer's are other brands. looks like a lipstick or lip gloss thingie)
Ah - thanks!
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Surus has been playing with the printer :ShakeHead: I now have Elephant footprints all over it :facepalm:
The areas with the Pritstick does seem to be harder to get off but I still have the rafts not sticking properly so it might be time for the sheet of glass
Jo
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I don't understand the comments about 'rafts'.
When I earlier mentioned a 'dam', I was talking about the printer laying down an outline of the part first. Near the part to be printed but not touching it.
The purpose being to ensure extrusion has started. The dam is typically not a full outline as it takes a little bit before the extrusion actually begins.
I imagine you took into account the thickness of the tape. I'm not sure it's needed but I notice the tape got hit a couple of times.
Glass will be good. Even then you may need the tape. Some people use hairspray.
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Sounds like something they use to keep MP's in line in Parliament...
I'd be using an AK47........to 'thank' them for three wasted years.
Andrew
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Hi Zee :-*
I don't understand the comments about 'rafts'.
When I earlier mentioned a 'dam', I was talking about the printer laying down an outline of the part first. Near the part to be printed but not touching it. The purpose being to ensure extrusion has started.
I call the band around the part a raft. I understand that it is there to provide extra adhesion to the printer bed. I would understand a dam as something that is around the part but not part of it :noidea:
Jo
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The band around the part is called a "skirt" or "brim". A "raft" is a sacrificial layer under the entire part that needs to be mechanically removed after the part is printed. A raft is used to level up an uneven print bed, and a skirt is used to get more surface area for better adhesion.
Regarding your part lifting during a 5 hour print, I had the same problem. It's usually not the part lifting off the tape, it's the part pulling the tape off the print bed. There are peal'n'stick coverings you can get for your aluminum heated bed that will allow you to print directly on the heated bed. (With a little help from a glue stick or hair-spray.) My Wanhao D6 clone came with one, and I'll get one for my I3 clone, if I ever go back to using it. They ARE the greatest thing since sliced bread.
Don
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Thanks Don, all these terms are new to me :)
Maybe I should try some hair spray :thinking: or look more into the various types of tape
They ARE the greatest thing since sliced bread.
I bake my own bread and wouldn't touch the shop brought soggy taste less sliced stuff ::)
Jo
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You don't like the greatest thing since sliced bread, how about the greatest thing since chocolate?
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how about the greatest thing since chocolate?
:embarassed:
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how about the greatest thing since chocolate?
:embarassed:
Since chocolate cookies!
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There's a couple of problems that I see with tape. Most of the stuff that's readily available is either going to have adhesive that will soften at elevated temperatures, or the tape itself will be relatively soft and easily damaged.
The bed material on my D6 is tough enough that they send a sharpened metal putty knife with the printer as a spatula for removing the part after printing. I've been using the printer since last April and don't have any scratches on the mat yet.
I've looked into getting a replacement mat from Monoprice and using it on my I3, since they've got the same size print bed. The replacement mat is only about USD $20. The replacement instructions SOUND simple, heat the bed up to 100°C, peal the old mat up with pliers, and stick the new mat down while the bed's still hot. I guess when I do have to replace the mat it's going to be welding glove or oven mitt time.
Don
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I could have had the term 'dam' wrong. I've seen it used in this context before but can't seem to find it now. No matter.
I hadn't seen the use of a raft/skirt/brim before (or just don't recall it) and it seems to make sense to me for very small parts.
I still wonder about the calibration of the nozzle to the bed. It seems too close given the markings on the tape as well as some of the prints.
If I recall correctly, there should be a setting about the thickness of the 1st couple of layers. That can also come into play.
No doubt you know this...a glass top can help ensure flatness versus something that may warp. Even on my machine, it auto-levels but only at 4 corners. As far as I know, the middle of the bed could be lower or higher.
I assume the temperature sensor for the bed is in the middle. I have had issues where the corners of a large part may lift up as the part cools during subsequent layers.
Having the 3D printer is great. Great cost in printing time but way cheap and doesn't take a lot of looking after when making test parts or things for around the house.
For Christmas I printed out hooks to hang our stockings.
Crud kids were more interested in the contents of the stocking than the extraordinary way they were hung. ;D
My first 3D printer was a kit. The time spent fiddling with it to get a good print was too much for me. I got a work-out-of-the-box system and am happy with it.
Re: Don's post about the sharp metal putty knife...My system came with one as well. It's surprising how hard, sometimes, it is to get the part off the bed.
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Zee:
One other thing that the skirt or brim is good for, is ensuring that the print head is fully primed and ready to immediately start printing the part.
I can't recall where I found it, but I read that the rule of thumb thickness for your 1st layer should be 1/2-3/4 of the diameter of your nozzle. I've got a 0.4mm nozzle, so I try to stay in the 0.25mm-0.3mm range for my first layer thickness. As long as I don't do something silly like trying to print on an area where I haven't applied the glue stick to the bed, this works for my machine - YMMV.
Don
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Having tried the Prat stick on the bed I now find that the plastic will not stick at all even with fresh prat stick applied. So, at vast expense, I have upgraded the bed with a piece of glass. This came from an old picture frame and is 2mm thick.
I initially did not get the gap between the printer head and the bed right and all it printed was a smear on the bed :facepalm2: Once I realised the tick, tick noise was because it could not get the plastic out of the printing hossle I raised the head a bit more and we are off and printing again :)
Jo
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Jo,
Is there any way you can support your cables above the bed. The way they are currently sat makes me think they are (or could be) dragging on the edge of the glass/bed and preventing the head moving cleanly around.
On my Prusa they are in woven cloth tube exitting the rear of the print head which can flex reasonably easily.
Colin
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I had been thinking about that Colin. I have not yet decided on how. The printer has moved since I first got it into its permanent home so things like supports can now be considered.
The piece of glass coming from a rimless frame has nicely smoothed edges. However this first piece had a crack in it which has gone right across the printing area :Doh: But it is only a practice piece so I am not bothered ;)
Jo
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Attached are the before and after pictures of my kit built I3 clone. The before picture shows the rat's nest I had when I first built the printer. The wiring was done following the kit instructions, using the kit supplied spiral wrap, and a lot of extra cable ties.
The after photo shows the cable chains that I printed, I found them on Thingiverse, and the other modifications I made to the printer.
Some people swear by cable chains, others just swear at them, I found them to be quite useful in this application. My biggest problem was the support that was required for the cable chain to the print head. Then I found an under-cabinet 12V LED strip, killed two birds with one stone. I got the support for the cable chain and my work light for the print bed.
Something to keep in mind.
Don
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Comparing the bases of the latest items printed with those that had been printed on the blue tape it is clear that the glass is both producing a smoother surface and the PLA has joined together much better. :)
Jo
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Comparing the bases of the latest items printed with those that had been printed on the blue tape it is clear that the glass is both producing a smoother surface and the PLA has joined together much better. :)
Jo
Nice hockey puck Jo. :LittleDevil: What's next?
Jim
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Nice hockey puck Jo. :LittleDevil: What's next?
Those are floor/carpet protectors to go underneath the feet of my new dining table that was delivered earlier today :)
A 3D printer is just another tool, I will not be printing toys or ornaments with it. So it will be used as required ;)
Jo
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Jo:
From the look of the "hockey puck" on the left, your print head was too high. I only see a few dull spots on that print, those spots were the only spots that print was actually adhering to the print bed. The entire surface of the print should have that uniform dull texture, it's the texture of the tape.
From the look of your part printed on glass it also looks like you might be under-extruding on the first layer, or your filament width is set too high. When printing on glass you're aiming for the entire surface of the part to be glass smooth. It's not uncommon to have to over-extrude on the first layer, there's a setting in your slicing software where you can adjust this. The same is true with the filament width, there's a setting for that. I typically extrude at about 105% on the first layer. When I pull the part off the print bed I don't want to see any trace of the filament lines in the first layer - if possible. I've got a 0.4mm nozzle and I've found that fixing my filament width at 0.3mm is a good compromise. I'm not sure which slicer you are using, but the default setting in some of the slicing software will vary the filament width in relation to the layer thickness. I know that Slic3r will so this, as the layer thickness goes down so will the filament thickness, and your perimeter wall thickness.
There's a highly technical 3D printing term, smoosh. You want the filament that you are laying down on the first layer to be slightly smooshed as you print it. You don't want it to smoosh too much though, that will at the very least cause the outer perimeter to print too wide - the dreaded "elephant's foot". Or worst case it will make the plastic smoosh up around the nozzle causing ridges that the next layer will have to deal with. Getting the first layer right is kind of like tap-dancing in a mine-field. There are SOOOO many ways that you can screw up the first layer, but when you get it right it is SO worth it.
Don
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Thanks Don, there is a lot to learn here :)
I am using Ultimaker Cura 4.4 as my "slicer" software. For those of you who are new to this: This software allows me to load one or more items and locate them on the printing bed, to slice i.e. calculate the printing path for each of the layers including automatically generating a honeycomb of plastic in the solid parts, and the actual printing which includes the ability to preheat before starting the combined heat/print. I have found that preheating very useful.
As for the printer's power usage, the 6 carpet protectors I printed yesterday took one hour each and saw my electricity usage go up by around 3 KW.
Jo
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As someone "who would never want to own one" and "would find no use for one"; I have been following this thread with unexpected interest. It certainly seems that with a bit of extra work, it is quite possible to make a 70 quid printer do something which could be useful (but I am still unsure what that something useful may be).
I am starting to think that £70 may be a cheep as chips way to find out. Besides it could be an incentive to get on and learn 3D CAD. I have been promising to do that for a couple of years but have still to make the start.
So a few simple questions:
a) Is it clean and smell free for use in the office or is it best in the workshop?
b) Where does the "slicer" software reside? In the printer or in the PC?
c) Does the printer need to be connected to the PC, or is it stand alone?
Mike
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As someone "who would never want to own one" and "would find no use for one"; I have been following this thread with unexpected interest. It certainly seems that with a bit of extra work, it is quite possible to make a 70 quid printer do something which could be useful (but I am still unsure what that something useful may be).
I am starting to think that £70 may be a cheep as chips way to find out. Besides it could be an incentive to get on and learn 3D CAD. I have been promising to do that for a couple of years but have still to make the start.
So a few simple questions:
a) Is it clean and smell free for use in the office or is it best in the workshop?
b) Where does the "slicer" software reside? In the printer or in the PC?
c) Does the printer need to be connected to the PC, or is it stand alone?
Mike
I can vouch for the usefulness in the shop. I received my Ender3 Pro as a birthday present this past July. A 1kg roll of filament later, the only 2 frivolous items printed have been 2 whistles and 2 cookie cutters. Everything else has been 'for a purpose'. I will create a thread with photos of my output. Personally the device has released a lot of creativity in that I am moving ahead on things that would have been risky (in time spent) or challenging (due to equipment limitations) otherwise.
Flex hose segments, dust collector for grinder, brackets for lathe shelf, right angle viewer for grinder, reproduction displays for a 1958 Univac II console, USB cable brackets, etc.
Cura or whatever slicer you use runs on a PC, Mac and Linux. Most printers have a SD card slot allowing printer to be used standalone. I ended up using a Raspi loaded with Repetier Host to run the printer, lets me monitor progress from upstairs. Watching these devices is hypnotic, much like watching a shaper. :-)
There is no detectable odour from PLA, I haven't tried PETG yet, that is coming up soon. ABS does smell and apparently needs venting outside. There are a myriad of other filaments as well, some might emit odours when heated.
Gerrit
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Hi Mike,
So a few simple questions:
a) Is it clean and smell free for use in the office or is it best in the workshop?
b) Where does the "slicer" software reside? In the printer or in the PC?
c) Does the printer need to be connected to the PC, or is it stand alone?
Any aroma from the PLA is very slight, maybe a slightly sweet smell. The sound of the whizzing back and forth of the stepper motors are more likely to be noticed but you can close the door.
As Gerrit says the slicer software goes on your PC, from which you can copy it to a mini SD card or connect directly to the printer using a standard printer cable. I am using the printer cable. I output my drawings from Alibre as a .stl file for the slicer program.
You are welcome to visit and Surus says he will show you how he prints his footprints all over my print bed ::)
Jo
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So a few simple questions:
a) Is it clean and smell free for use in the office or is it best in the workshop?
b) Where does the "slicer" software reside? In the printer or in the PC?
c) Does the printer need to be connected to the PC, or is it stand alone?
My 3D printer is in the sitting room; not noticed any problems. I definitely wouldn't put it in the workshop. I machine a lot of cast iron so the printer would get covered in a fine dust, which wouldn't be good.
I use Cura as my slicer on a PC. I'm currently using an old version as the newer ones seem to have a fatal crash due to drive allocations. Very poor, you'd have thought that the softies could have avoided the issue. :(
My older Ultimaker 2 is standalone - I transfer code with a SD card. Newer printers are supposedly on WiFi, but the SD card is fine. Some of my prints have taken 30 hours, so running while I'm asleep. If the printer doesn't download the code in one go one would need the PC on overnight too - waste of electric.
I was up and running very quickly, but I was already proficient in 3D CAD, designing parts and assemblies for high performance power electronics and producing output for manual and CNC machining.
Andrew
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Gerrit, Jo, Andrew.
Thanks for your replies. Sounds like i will be ordering one like Jo's in the near future, Not sure what I need to print on it, but by all accounts, that is a self solving problem.
Jo, I would like to take up your kind offer to see the printer in action, sometime next week, if you are free
Cheers
Mike
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I will be around Tuesday and Thursday next week Mike :)
Jo
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For any Newbies, to 3D printing, like myself, there's a free E-book the "Basics of 3D Printing" that's available over on the Prusa website: https://www.prusa3d.com/ebook-basics-of-3d-printing-with-josef-prusa/ I found it really helpful to learn the basics of this interesting field.
For any Newbies to CAD, like myself, there's a free program called "Tinker Cad" available from AutoDesk (the makers of Fusion 360): https://www.tinkercad.com There's lots of good tutorials to learn how to use it. One could then move into fusion 360 as the need arose.
Jim
PS: Since I've been following along on Jo's thread, I'm finding myself slowly getting sucked into the abyss of 3D printing. :shrug:
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Jim:
You need to stop and reconsider this, then slowly move away from the key-board, put down the checkbook/cash/bank-card/credit-card, and turn around. Then RUN, save yourself man, the rest of us are doomed but you can probably still get away and save yourself.
I started with a kit-built Prusa I3 clone several years ago. Then I got a 2nd printer, a Wanhao D6 clone, last year. Now I find myself thinking that those SLA printers have REALLY come down in price - and there resins that are SUPPOSED to be low odor...
Save yourself man, run away, RUN AWAY!!!
Don
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Jim, Don is right, follow the sound of your Sherline, it is calling to you!
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:lolb: :lolb: :lolb: :lolb:
It might be too late already! :facepalm: :facepalm2: :help:
Jim
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You poor, poor man - I tried to warn you. Welcome to the asylum.
Don
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I definitely think we should have a repository on this site of useful .STL files for stuff for the workshop. Trouble is at this point in time I could not contribute only steal other ideas as not managed to learn Alibre yet.
Colin
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As pointed out earlier...the PLA does put off a smell but it's not bad (sweet-ish as Jo said). I don't know about other material.
The steppers do make noise but it's more interesting than annoying.
My system must be connected to the computer so if you're thinking of jumping into this quagmire of fun, check the features.
Personally, I would think every machinist on this forum would be interested in a 3D printer. It makes parts that YOU design (or you can download STL files).
One thing I don't think was mentioned...there are certain limitations you must be aware of when designing a part.
One is that overhangs can be a problem (wherein some part extends over space...nothing to hold it).
Second is that the adhesion between layers is a weak point. If the part is going to undergo stress (sheer) then be aware of the layout of the part.
(I had made some screwdriver holders and when I 'threw' the screwdriver in, the part broke in two.)
3D printing is not a replacement hobby. It's additive (pun intended).
Go for it Jim. But unless you're interested in fiddling, tuning, experimenting...go for a 'work-out-of-box' system. And enjoy the plethora of choices.
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Zee did you just miss-spell addictive, or did you really mean additive?
Both of my printers can either be run from a PC via the USB, or from an SD card. I always print from the SD card, that way I can be using the PC for other purposes and it's not multi-tasking as much. Also, printing from the SD card means your PC isn't tied up all the time the printer is doing a 12 hour print. As you can tell, I'm recommending being able to print from the SD card.
Also be aware that while a 3D printer can crank out some fantastically complex objects it does so ONE LAYER AT A TIME. Most people print at 0.25mm per layer or less. So if you have a tall part, it takes a LOT of layers to print that part. I've always heard that a shaper can make just about anything but money. You can substitute 3D printer for shaper in that statement, and it's still pretty accurate.
Like Zee said, the layer orientation in the part is very important, and you need to consider that when orienting the part for slicing. If the part is going to be under a compressive load, I try to orient the part so that the load is perpendicular to the layer. If it's under a tension load I try to make the load parallel to the layer. If you are interested in the effects of annealing, part orientation under load, and a lot of other 3D printing topics then Stephan at CNC KITCHEN, https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCiczXOhGpvoQGhOL16EZiTg (https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCiczXOhGpvoQGhOL16EZiTg) has built a test rig where he can do quantitative testing. Check it out.
Don
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Thank you, that is a very useful channel. Added to my list, now making 3 that I view regularly for 3D FDM advise.
As with all thing YT, there is a tremendous amount of noise so finding a quality channel is always refreshing.
Gerrit
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Thank you, that is a very useful channel. Added to my list, now making 3 that I view regularly for 3D FDM advise.
As with all thing YT, there is a tremendous amount of noise so finding a quality channel is always refreshing.
Gerrit
Of course that now begs the question: What are the other two channels you watch? :atcomputer:
Jim
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Sorry, should have added them
CHEP https://www.youtube.com/user/beginnerelectronics
Teaching Tech https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCbgBDBrwsikmtoLqtpc59Bw
Initially I followed them for Ender3 Pro specific info but they just generally produce well reasoned videos with solid information.
Gerrit
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Zee did you just miss-spell addictive, or did you really mean additive?
;D I did mean additive in the sense of adding to one's collection of tools.
The intended pun was 3d printing is an additive process whereas most of our tools are subtractive.
But addictive it can be.
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Zee did you just miss-spell addictive, or did you really mean additive?
;D I did mean additive in the sense of adding to one's collection of tools.
The intended pun was 3d printing is an additive process whereas most of our tools are subtractive.
But addictive it can be.
Zee, don't forget the half-adder:
(https://i.postimg.cc/WpqfrsZD/Image8.jpg)
or the full-adder (Black Adder series for those that missed it years ago)
(https://i.postimg.cc/28p97gd0/Image9.jpg)
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Blackadder: Right Baldrick, let's try again, shall we? This is called adding. [gestures to the beans on the table] If I have two beans, and then I add two more, what do I have?
Baldrick: Some beans.
Blackadder: [smiles, impatiently] Yesss... and no. Let's try again, shall we? I have two beans, then I add two more beans. What does that make?
Baldrick: A very small casserole.
Blackadder: Baldrick. The ape-creatures of the Indus have mastered this. Now try again. [helps him count] One, two, three... four. So, how many are there?
Baldrick: Three.
Blackadder: What?
Baldrick: And that one.
Blackadder: Three... and that one. [waves the fourth bean in front of Baldrick's face] So if I add the three to that one, what will I have?!
Baldrick: Oh! Some beans.
Blackadder: [pause] Yes. To you, Baldrick, the Renaissance was just something that happened to other people, wasn't it?
;)
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When I first saw Chris and Jo's last posts I thought they said "Bladder". :thinking: What a "Relief" to see I was mistaken! :naughty:
Jim
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When I first saw Chris and Jo's last posts I thought they said "Bladder". :thinking: What a "Relief" to see I was mistaken! :naughty:
Jim
Hey Jim, CNR has hacked your account and is posting puns as you! :Lol:
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When I first saw Chris and Jo's last posts I thought they said "Bladder". :thinking: What a "Relief" to see I was mistaken! :naughty:
Jim
Hey Jim, CNR has hacked your account and is posting puns as you! :Lol:
:lolb: :lolb: :lolb:
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When I first saw Chris and Jo's last posts I thought they said "Bladder". :thinking: What a "Relief" to see I was mistaken! :naughty:
Jim
Hey Jim, CNR has hacked your account and is posting puns as you! :Lol:
I resemble that! (to quote the Three Stooges) :Lol:
I can barely operate Windoze these days let alone hack anything! :hellno: I do hack a bit of metal regularly, but use my lathe and mill..... :shrug:
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As someone "who would never want to own one" and "would find no use for one"; I have been following this thread with unexpected interest. It certainly seems that with a bit of extra work, it is quite possible to make a 70 quid printer do something which could be useful (but I am still unsure what that something useful may be).
I am starting to think that £70 may be a cheep as chips way to find out. Besides it could be an incentive to get on and learn 3D CAD. I have been promising to do that for a couple of years but have still to make the start.
So a few simple questions:
a) Is it clean and smell free for use in the office or is it best in the workshop?
b) Where does the "slicer" software reside? In the printer or in the PC?
c) Does the printer need to be connected to the PC, or is it stand alone?
Mike
Mike,
if you dont want to learn full 3D CAD, check out Google Sketchup, it's excellent, free and very intuative to use. i used it for the DFV drawings. It can export in stl format and then into your slicer.
Jon
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Jon,
Thanks for pointing out Sketchup. I will give it a try
Mike
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Mike,
I've started a separate thread for anyone who's interested and needs help.
Jon
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Following on from a very nice visit from Vixen yesterday (I hope you are still displaying self control and have not ordered your printer yet Mike :lolb: )
We both agreed that the bed on my printer was no where near as hot as the thing was claiming: 70 degrees C and you could put your hand on it :disappointed:. Having looked further into this the thermistor measuring the temperature seems to be on the back of the heater :headscratch: To me this would suggest that it is going to measure a much higher temperature than the bed above it. What do you think?
I have also purchased two Borosilicate (Pyrex to the rest of us) glass sheets for use as a print bed but as glass is a poor heat conductor I think I need to sort out the bed heat temperature first..
Jo
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Following on from a very nice visit from Vixen yesterday (I hope you are still displaying self control and have not ordered your printer yet Mike :lolb: )
Jo
They say there is 'no fool like an old fool' and 'a fool and his money are soon parted'. I am sure I have proved them right as I placed my order as soon as I got home after seeing Jo's printer and am now patiently awaiting the arrival of my own 3D printer. :help: :help:
Mike
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Following on from a very nice visit from Vixen yesterday (I hope you are still displaying self control and have not ordered your printer yet Mike :lolb: )
Jo
The say there is 'no fool like an old fool' and 'a fool and his money are soon parted'. I am sure I have proved them right as I placed my order as soon as I got home and now patiently awaiting the arrival of my own 3D printer. :help: :help:
Mike
What printer did you order Mike? Inquiring minds want to know. :thinking:
Jim
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Hello Jim
I ordered this one from this UK seller on e-bay https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Latest-Version-/202788697508?_trkparms=ispr%3D1&hash=item2f3725f5a4:g:qU8AAOSwGlldCMtN&enc=AQAEAAACUBPxNw%2BVj6nta7CKEs3N0qVhOosvADR1cdp2SZiD6a5rZSlmDkaCA%2Fi0u%2BtriF4axIxd8kjKJzC4NIKzOosMBZ0T2deKmgDPe6FK0fr3rrWQq17TIIaf62xtuUf4rQ6arO5Qf0s5RNtjyOdHe0xs5AsFXQgfxAQcFKkgMSjippYyJuFjzuN8dJaTGw3bMerIjk7KqU2HxWbu2bVQr6WfoliFVZa3K6nvdIcuao1NUmE9aq6C%2FDI3GixlkVjpH7x9rQuaTsfM2BEuzy7mu6hG8VxBtsjO7T9doVXvLK9L%2Fx47igZQnQn9t4kFLnU7mhF%2BYKIZ%2FuxLu9wasgztkIl9hPx9wjPmxKgAYJJ8CHh7kaP09%2FFWh0T8mLCNQVXb0CK%2Fvw%2FU%2BEU4GwiRIxHAUIXxWcGKBx4UgPL7%2ByCUyw2O58GthF3rnQFiiesJG2o%2FhrsvjcSv3FRK34Sq73f8JuMGIsRiHcsVJWg%2FevpJYN7GfRAx8F9d8Q%2FCKCjR%2Bri6WGg8uKj3CY0wefrFf%2BtN6PCdZiJjM8k%2BFLJWsNW8A9D%2BsmUuHtkfH%2Bk6i%2FGtg54EoeP%2FBTacHKl5AG9xBYqE7PgopnmvsPys5X733ZQQd%2FLATkCrLJeSZKAzV8PgSee%2FxL%2B0zcnCi1uxEbtPzjwR8bxIKKbofzjIEM3rQgFeJQK9cYKJDwmZFzmEv3d5fqGHoeOegsQ0kWXaunuly7T05M8DjmTVDZY7hTHE%2BS4iVsEmK5k%2BG6nXAMj0qy0r9Tzwzqh6ARJpX3DL8CDcOcI%2BCSBAyWk%3D&checksum=20278869750842512f3d06924607a4d3203aee99656e
Where did all that extra rubbish come from :killcomputer: If you simply search for "3D-Printer-Prusa-i3-Reprap-MK8-Extruder-LCD-Controller-MK3-hotbed" on e-bay or Amazon you should find many alternative seller in your own country. We pay £70 UK for the kit, what's that in dollars or Euros?
Mike
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Hi Mike,
Looking forward to hearing about your experiences with this printer and comparing your trials and tribulations to Jo's thread on the same subject.
Mike
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Hello Mike,
It's almost the same machine as Jo's. Hopefully Jo will have tramped down all the long grass before I get there.
Mike
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Interesting read, I had always dismissed getting involved in having one of these, but at that small investment I have changed my mind and have to agree a very useful addition to the workshop. Thank you for Jo for the info. Nick
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It will be interesting to see if the printer they deliver matches the photos on Fleabay :) Mine didn't ::)
Jo
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It will be interesting to see if the printer they deliver matches the photos on Fleabay :) Mine didn't ::)
Jo
I doubt if most e-bay sellers of cheap Chinese imports, have ever opened a box to look inside. They use stock photos or copy the next guy's advert. At that low price you pays yer money and takes yer chance.
Mike
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There is a superficial 'look a like' to it until you really look closer - then hardly anything is like the Prusa ....
The bed is no way near the fantastic original - but then again, that part alone cost more from Prusa than the whole printer shown here .... I will guess that most of the chassis and the moving parts are OK in comparison.
Other "missing bits" are the self leveling features on the Prusa, regular Firmware updates, etc... but I am a bit surprised that they can do it this cheap :headscratch:
I hope you both will have some nice experiences with them :cheers:
Per
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Per, I still see it as a cheap introduction to 3D printing which if it was no good it can go in the bin without loosing a fortune.
Jo
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Good evening Jo and all,
SWMBO has decided that you are a wicked Lady Jo, enticing us innocents into going down the 3D rabbit hole. I have bought almost the same printer as you and Vixen. Got it assembled without too much trouble with a chinglish dictionary.. :lolb: Hopefully will try to melt some plastic tomorrow. There are several parts that will need replacing/improving as you found but I want to see if it makes bits before spending a lot of time on it. One part that is baffling me is the 5 screen buttons. :killcomputer: they appear to have a will of their own and do what they like, nothing repeatable. Contrary to SWMBO so far I am enjoying the ride. John :old: :DrinkPint: :DrinkPint:
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SWMBO has decided that you are a wicked Lady Jo,
:facepalm:
I have never achieved been called that :lolb:
The buttons :Doh: Press the one in the middle to select something (you may need to press it twice ::) ) the ones on the outside give access to the menus like with pull down menus but they don't pull down.
Lets try to explain this :thinking: From the top screen press the middle button until the screen changes. Then use the bottom button to go down to "prepare" then press the button on the right to go to the lower level screen (I know you want to use the middle button to select it but it doesn't work that way). Use the bottom button to go down to "Home" and press the middle button to select and the machine should home to the front left side of the bed but make sure you have set the Z axis stop before you select this so the print head does not crash into the bed :toilet_claw: .
(I hope I got that right but the machine has been put away for the evening and any intrusions into Surus' domain late at night will be seen as a possible attempt at Casting stealing :paranoia: and that will cause the entire casting collection to be moved around all night while he checks nothing is missing )
Jo
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It wasn't meant as a negative comment - more my astonishment over something this cheap can have so much superficial resemblance to the 'original' :o .... and as you have say (more than once) - the price is low enough, not to worry :ThumbsUp: - but it will provide you with more work to get it useable.
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SWMBO has decided that you are a wicked Lady Jo,
:facepalm:
I have never achieved been called that :lolb:
In your case Jo................. I think SWMBO means "Surus Who Must Be Obeyed". :LittleDevil:
Jim
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SWMBO has decided that you are a wicked Lady Jo,
:facepalm:
I have never achieved been called that :lolb:
In your case Jo................. I think SWMBO means "Surus Who Must Be Obeyed". :LittleDevil:
Jim
:lolb:
But you're wrong.
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Many thanks Jo for the explanation of the buttons, they do not seem logical to me. Pleased its not just me having to press buttons several times to get them to react.
I would not dare argue with Surus he would be checking my workshop for castings and leaving footprints in the butter. :old: :DrinkPint: :DrinkPint: John
Oh yes melted some plastic today :cartwheel: :pinkelephant: :whoohoo:
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Oh yes melted some plastic today :cartwheel: :pinkelephant: :whoohoo:
Well done John, do we get to see some pics? :)
Surus has shown little interest in normal dairy butter however Peanut butter is another matter: since he discovered it I have not found any in the house :disappointed: irrespective of however many jars I thought I had purchased :noidea:
Jo
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Oh yes melted some plastic today :cartwheel: :pinkelephant: :whoohoo:
Well done John, do we get to see some pics? :)
Yes will try to post some pics tomorrow. Just spent 1 hour 45 mins watching printer do it's thing, :shrug: I know but TV is C**P , then realized thingiverve person had only listed 3 out of 4 necessary files.... What a waste of time and filament. Got to go now, the "MEN IN THE LITTLE WHITE COATS" have come to take me away.. Why is SWMBO holding door open? :old: :DrinkPint: :DrinkPint: John
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JC54:
I found that the problem with a lot of Thingiverse modifications is that they were not EXACTLY what I was looking for, I think you'll find the same. Once you start designing your own 3D parts you're opening up the door on a whole new world, and it's a BLAST.
My first 3D design was a 20mm cube, a die. At least I think that's the singular version of dice. That way by remembering which way the die was oriented as it printed, I could identify which axis of my printer was screwing up.
There are several no-cost 3D CAD packages available, Fusion 360 and DesignSpark3D are 2 that I have. Fusion 360 is the most powerful, but I'm more familiar with DesignSpark3D so that's the one I usually use. I believe that Sketch-Up and TinkerCAD are both free 3D CAD packages but I haven't used either so I don't know for sure.
Find a 3D CAD package and get comfortable with it. Then you don't need to worry about the Thingiverse version not being complete, or not exactly what you want. If it ain't right, it's your fault and YOU can fix it.
Don
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Thanks Don, I have been using Alibre 3D Cad for quite a while and already have several things that I want to print but thought I would try "ready sorted" parts at first. Several people had recommended a filament fan to cool your print and so why redesign the wheel?? Should have known better.
Jo will try to put some pictures up tomorrow, a very hectic day today. :old: :DrinkPint: :DrinkPint: John
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JC54:
My first printer didn't have a cooling fan either. That was one of the first things I printed - I also got mine from Thingiverse. You'll be amazed at the increase in print quality, and print speed, that you will get with that one upgrade. I would recommend the radial blower over the axial fan, the blowers move a LOT more air - but they also pull more amps. TANSTAAFL
Don
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Hello All, Hopefully here are some pictures of my first printing attempts, machine straight out of the box. As you can see the little robot (example with Cura slicing software) got disjointed a couple of times. :facepalm: Caused by belt jumping on pulley/cogs. Tightened belts. The other part is for a cooling fan found on thingiverse. Pleased with result but found not alll necessary parts on website??? :hammerbash:
So far very pleased with this printer for the price paid. Now back down the rabbit hole to find upgraded parts.. John :old: :DrinkPint: :DrinkPint:
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That is a pretty good start.
Gerrit
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When I was designing my cooling fan duct for my D6, to replace the stock fan that might as well not have been there, I stumbled across a video of a guy testing his cooling fan using a shallow pan of water on his print bed. You could see the ripples from the cooling air in the water. It'd be interesting to see where the focal point of that duct is.
One of the problems that I found when using a fan duct like that, was that if you were printing a small part the cooling fan didn't help a lot because the cooling air didn't actually hit the part.
Don
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I printed this for (https://www.thingiverse.com/thing:2759439) my Ender 3 Pro. It has some great description of the airflow. Good results
Gerrit
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Back out of the rabbit hole. Thanks for the comment Gerrit. I finally got the missing bits printed for the fan duct but found that I cannot use it on my printer. It hits the heating block however I try to fit it. I have now printed off a very simple fan duct that just blows from the front.
I have not tried it yet as I found bearings missing in X axis belt tensioner!!!!! Waiting for some bearings before I waste any more PLA.
I know PLA is supposed to not emit fumes or smell but with my severely damaged lungs it does get to me. Started getting parts together for an "Ikea Lack enclosure" so that printer can go into the garage/workshop out of my study, computer, brew house, room. Oh well back down the rabbit hole.. John :DrinkPint: :DrinkPint: :old:
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John:
PLA does indeed have an odor when printing. It's just that since PLA is plant based, most people don't find the odor as offensive as ABS or the other petroleum based plastic filaments. When my wife was still alive, she was very sensitive to odors, I doubt that I would have been able to have a 3D printer in the HOUSE, let alone the living room.
Maybe you could build fume hood for your printer using a bathroom or kitchen exhaust fan to vent the fumes somewhere else? (I know, I know - another 3D printer rabbit hole.)
Don
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Thanks for the comments Don. I did think about an extractor fan but as there is more space in the garage ( centrally heated insulated etc.). It would free up my home brew bench as well!!!!! :lolb: In the enclosure that I am making it will keep clean and better if I try ABS. John :DrinkPint: :DrinkPint: :old:
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Just a quick update on the cheap as chips printer. As Jo did I have added quite a few mods, decent bearings and 8mm rods, replaced some of the 5mm plywood with 10mm aluminium. I printed out motor support for Y axis along with tensioner and bearing saddles. The toothed belt now runs parallel not at odd angles. Great improvements in quality and reliability. I had trouble saving sliced files to a SD card so I could run printer without being connected to computer. Upgrade of Cura software fixed this problem. hopefully below are pics of printer as it now is and a couple of parts for a steam lorry differential that I drew up in CAD to check dimensions and fit etc. :old: :DrinkPint: :cheers: John
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Oh well back down the rabbit hole.. :old:
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Your parts looks great! I like the "jet inlet" fan cover. When do you fit an afterburner? :Lol: :cheers:
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8)
Any chance of links to the files for all those useful parts you printed off for yourself John?
Jo
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The afterburner is already fitted. Problem is it takes too much home brew to run it. :DrinkPint: :DrinkPint:
I will dig out links to the mods tomorrow and post them Jo. All of the printed mods were found on Thingiverse. It is amazing how many files are on Thingiverse, almost if you cannot find it on there you don't really need it. I have also found a lot of useful things on grabcad. Both sites well worth a look. One thing with thingiverse pick your time to look at it, try when youngsters are at school or it is terribly slow. Back down my Rabbit Hole, :old: John
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While we wait for the links from John :stickpoke:
The next upgrade for my printer has arrived from China: an insulation blanket to go under the print bed. This was vastly expensive (I think about £2 :toilet_claw: including postage ). The reason for buying this was when Mike visited we discussed why thing not sticking very well to my print bed. Mike thought it might be caused by the bed being a bit cool as he could put his hand on it so the blanket is to see if I could get a more consistent and higher heating of the print bed.
On more expensive printers the entire print bed is a heater, on these cheap as chip ones it is only the middle 100mm square is above the actual heater. The idea of the blanket is to prevent what heat there is lost under the bed and hopefully the heat generated will go where is should be and the bed will keep warmer. My initial testing both with my hand and a digital thermometer shows that about twice as much surface is rather too warm for the hand (>60 degrees) but the outside is still cooler ( ~50 degrees), when the sensor is claiming the bed is at 70 degrees. Of course a little soak heating will improve the spread of the heat as will another blanket put on it prior to printing.
Now I need something else to print :)
Jo
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Hello Jo
I found the sticking problem solved itself by raising the bed (aiming) temperature to 80*C . The actual bed temperature was then 67*C in the middle and the prints now stick very well.
Mike
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I had one of Myfordboy's videos pop up yesterday as a suggested Youtube video, it was of a resin printer that looks to give a very good surface quality, although not cheap as chips it looks reasonable value for the quality of output and the only assembly is to screw the knob on to the front door.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RRBxBfQSwQA
Certainly tempting if I was wanting to cast a part but as I've just CNC'd a nice cast iron flywheel will probably pass on it for now. They also do a resin that can be melted out for investment casting.
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Sorry for the delay Jo, my lungs haven't wanted to play last couple of days. Anyway got into the other computer and these are most of the printed upgrades that I have done so far.
Y axis Braces, www.thingiverse.com/thing:1751317
Y axis Motor mount, www.thingiverse.com/thing:2809788
Y axis Tensioner, www.thingiverse.com/thing:2786671
LCD Front Case, www.thingiverse.com/thing:2070983
PSU Cover+Switch, www.thingiverse.com/thing:2820627
Jet Intake, www.thingiverse.com/thing:2302064
Air Duct, www.thingiverse.com/thing:2353994
The LCD cover doesn't have a back to it but I have drawn one up and will print it when I am fit. If it fits OK I will put file on here. I didn't like the idea of no cover over the live wires and also no on/off switch so PSU cover has aperture for switched socket. I got switch/socket off eBay. Hope this lot will keep you all amused for a while. I like the idea of the blanket as have had same problem. I did as Mike suggested and upped bed temp. also printed on a raft. It sometimes curls up rather than the object. John :old: :DrinkPint:
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Evening Jason, The idea of a resin printer really appeals but machines and running costs are still out of my pay bracket. One of the members at my local club brought some parts that he had someone print for him with resin and the detail was really amazing. He had also had some cast in brass and once painted you could only tell difference by the weight. John :old: :DrinkPint:
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Thank John :cheers:
Jo
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Following on from a couple of PM's from Vixen I am trying some new print settings. I should mention that I am using Cura to print and they have just updated it to 4.5 and they have changed the default settings and it was giving me problems and not sticking to the bed >:( I am now using the following settings:
Bed temperature setting: 80 degrees (Measured actual temperature 65 degrees in the middle, varying down to 51 degrees on the outside of the bed )
Print head temperature:180 degrees.
It is set to retraction between layers (which means it doesn't push the print material out as it moves to start the next layer)
It is set to retraction between printing parts (= it won't string between printing bits - hopefully )
Retraction is set to 4.5mm
I also found the new version of the software has turned off the brim function that helps the printed part stick to the bed.
My printer is now sporting a Silica Borate (Pyrex) printing plate, which has been held in place with some fold back binder clips which have had their wires removed so they don't hit the frame as the bed moves around. The glass plate helps the printed hot plastic stick ;)
Jo
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Jo, your nozzle temp is to cold. Assuming you’re printing with PLA, at 180 it will be hard to extrude and not stick well to the bed. For the first layer you want things on the hot side. For cheap generic PLA I print my first layer at 205 and drop back to 190-195 for the second layer on up to improve print quality.
Tony
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:ThumbsUp: Thanks Tony. I noticed the extruder was making more noise than it was when I was printing at 200 degrees. I found you could vary the initial layer temperature and subsequent ones but was not sure what that provided. I'll give it a go tomorrow :)
Having measured the actual bed temperature I might up that to an indicated 85, which should give 70 degrees actual. I do like my digital temperature measuring gun it makes checking the temperature so easy.
Jo
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On a related note, make sure your part cooling fan is off for the first layer as well. Bring it up to speed on the second layer. From a physics perspective, we want to prevent the first layer from cooling down too quickly and contracting to the point it releases from the bed. On the subsequent layers we want the exact opposite. The PLA needs to cool down relatively quickly to prevent stringing, blobs at zits.
Tony
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I have been using 210C for extruder and 80C for the bed plate, using pritt stick on the original and not been too bad. I have found that it is very critical to bed leveling and extruder to bed gap. I tried insulation under the bed and couldn't get filament to stick at all. :shrug: I have tee'd my filament cooler fan to the main fan so may have a look at rewiring it to Fan2 on main board. Thanks for the physics and reasons Tony.
For larger flimsy parts I have found a raft really helps make things stick and keeps the part flat even though the raft may curl at the edges. Oh well back down the rabbit hole to hone the cylinders on my 7 cylinder radial engine. :old: :DrinkPint:
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As someone "who would never want to own one" and "would find no use for one"; I have been following this thread with unexpected interest. It certainly seems that with a bit of extra work, it is quite possible to make a 70 quid printer do something which could be useful (but I am still unsure what that something useful may be).
Mike
Back in January when I posted this, I said " but I am still unsure what that something useful may be". Well a few months later I found that a "something useful" has become "something vital" My printer is now full time printing disposable 'one use' face visor frames to help protect our health care workers, nurses and doctors.
(https://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10013/P1080044small.JPG)
If you have capacity and want to join in then contact www.3DCrowd.uk. They will give you STL files to download for you to print face visor frame parts. They each take as much as three hours to print so getting as many printers involved is important. They arrange for the door collection of your prints and are sometimes able to provide replacement filament. They have other teams assembling the transparent plastic face shield and distributing the completed visors to hospitals, care homes and GP practices.
Get involved if you can and help protect our vulnerable health workers
MIke
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Good production there Mike! Well done
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My first batch of face shield (visor) frames are due for collection by DPD couriers tomorrow morning. If they prevent 10 doctors or nurses from infection then it was time well spent. Unfortunately they are one-use only because the materials are not suitable for sterilization.
On the technical front, my cheap as chips printer has been running 36 hours continuously, even while I was asleep. The linear bearings and bars are showing signs of wear but it is still bashing on. 3D printing is a pathetically slow and inefficient way of making the frames, But hay, I wasn't going anywhere was I.
Stay strong
Mike
:ThumbsUp: :ThumbsUp: :ThumbsUp: :ThumbsUp: :ThumbsUp: