Model Engine Maker
Supporting => Tooling & Machines => Topic started by: steamer on February 06, 2019, 07:40:02 PM
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I just got a new motor drive,belt and QCTP for this little girl.
Ill be posting the install and thoughts on getting her running.
Dave
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Did you name her yet?
Bill
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Did you name her yet?
I can tell I might have started a trend ::)
Jo
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Lovely Lucy....of course!
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That works!!!
Bill
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Current state of play
Mounted to a Watchmakers Bench.
the current motor is the traditional Universal with foot pedal. I find the speed control terrible with any change in load while you try to compensate with a somewhat non linear foot pedal.
It's going!
In it's place, I'm going with an industrial sewing machine Servo motor. It has a Potentiometer control, and it automatically controls around a set speed, regardless of load. And at 500 W, it's about 2/3 HP. so Plenty of power for a 50 mm lathe. The mount will need a bit of work, but it's all there. The price was WAY cheaper than anything labled Watchmaker ever dreamed of.
https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B079P8RQRQ/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_asin_title_o01__o00_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1
Second. The Cross slide needs a tool post. Now I have a lantern one, but I'm waiting for the Cowells QCTP that I just ordered so that I can mount it ( Thanks for the size sketches Bill, I think itll fit perfect!)
(http://www.cowells.com/Gallery/RG43.jpg)
Parts are on the way....but I have a show goal to reach first....but I'm close...so maybe start on some of this this weekend.
Dave
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Exciting to see LL close to being back in action Dave. Did you decide on the new handle material yet?
Bill
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Probably 12L14. Simple, and easy to machine
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Ive drawn up the handle, and now im thinking about how ill make it.
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That's a beautiful little lathe, Dave. I don't remember ever seeing one before.. :shrug:
I do like that tool post.. :Love:
Pete
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That's a beautiful little lathe, Dave. I don't remember ever seeing one before.. :shrug:
I do like that tool post.. :Love:
Pete
Its a watchmakers lathe accepting 8mm collets Spindle runout is maybe a .0001"....its a nice little lathe.
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Motor is here!!! It's almost as big as the lathe...but I knew that.
I suspect there is a brake on the back side and a contactor. I'll be ditching that.
Pictures to follow
Dave
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That's a beautiful little lathe, Dave. I don't remember ever seeing one before.. :shrug:
I do like that tool post.. :Love:
Pete
PS that tool post is 0.75" tall..... 8)
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Ok the motor is interesting. It has a potentiometer that limits the maximum speed. I has a mechanical brake. It also has a variable speed sensor. This sensor is the interesting bit
It's some kind of Hall effect sensor. It's controlled by the intensity of a permanent magnet magnetic field. The closer to center of the sensor with this permanent magnet, the faster the motor goes. This magnet is mounted on the brake arm, so when you want to go fast you move the lever up, disengaging the brake, and bringing the magnet closer to the sensor. The more you move the brake arm up and away from the brake, the faster the motor goes.
If you hold the lever up for full throttle, you can adjust the speed with the potentiometer alone.
I don't need the brake, or the lever. I just want the POT. So I think the simplest thing to do with it is to place a bar magnet over the sensor there by keeping it full on, and then controlling speed with the pot alone. I'll also remove the brake, and the perhaps groove the brake wheel for use as an accessory pulley. Plenty of braketry for a counter shaft mounted on the motor and way to bolt it to the bench. this will work well! GOBS of low speed torque all the way up to 3450 rpm. WAY more than enough power for such a small lathe. and more importantly, its much smoother power delivery than the AC universal motor. Its also very quiet.....Much more quiet than the universal motor.
Dave
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The motor is a brushed motor by the way. It comes with a spare set of brushes. I doubt I'll ever need them in this application though.
Dave
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That sounds amazing for the price. If it performs as good as it sounds it's a steal Dave. Should be perfect for LL.
Bill
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If you have a small lathe, you can't go wrong with this one. Anything up to 6" swing should be fine!
Hell an entry level VFD is $150....and you still need a motor!
Dave
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OK Some progress. I pulled the brake and lever off, and dropped a button magnet on the screw that mounts the speed sensor and it works exactly as desired. I'm reading up on a adjustment of soft start....Very pleased with this.
Dave
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Tool post is on the way! Thank you Colin!
Dave
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Cool!! 8) Should be here maybe by Tuesday.
Bill
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Are you going to out a stub into a t-nut in one of the t-slots to mount it?
Bill
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Are you going to out a stub into a t-nut in one of the t-slots to mount it?
Bill
Ill make a T bolt of some form.
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I adapted a multi sheave cone pulley to the new motor. That will work well.
Waiting on belt and tool post.
Dave
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Belting came tonight....but no more energy tonight.
Dave
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Tool post will be here tomorrow..best I can figure....
dave
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Toolpost should be here today..... :whoohoo:
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Toolpost should be here today..... :whoohoo:
USPS wouldn't leave at the mail box without someone home....be nice if they told me that before they got here...should be redelivered today......
Dave
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Looking forward to seeing how it fits on the little Levin!!
Bill
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It should be fine, but we'll see I know I need to make a T bolt....that might be a good project for today I think
Dave
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Ittttttssssssssssss HERE!!!!!!!
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Great Dave....looks familiar too 😊
Bill
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Well isn't that just cute as can be!
Dave
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OK spent some time with it an the lathe, and it'll work just fine
The traditional rocker style tool post spent a lot of time on this lathe, based on the rust stain in the plating. and it was over tightened there as well, so I found some distortion in the t slot. I draw filed that back to flat. Now the post sits down and doesn't rock. It's a pretty good size for this lathe
I sketched out a T bolt, but I think I'll make a T nut and post affair to spread the load out on these little t slots. I'll spend some time to make the nut a very tight fit, so the lifting wont happen again.
Pictures to follow....
Dave
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Thanks for helping with the decision Bill, it was a great choice I think!
:praise2: :praise2: :whoohoo:
Dave
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:-[ :-[ and alls I have is the gravers rest :'(
Cletus
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:-[ :-[ and alls I have is the gravers rest :'(
Cletus
https://www.ebay.com/itm/Rare-and-Excellent-Louis-Levin-3-Phase-Watchmakers-Lathe-Cross-Slide/143126566579?_trkparms=aid%3D111001%26algo%3DREC.SEED%26ao%3D1%26asc%3D20160908105057%26meid%3Df8ffbfd3a9024ed7a886cdbd8e0cb517%26pid%3D100675%26rk%3D1%26rkt%3D15%26mehot%3Dpp%26sd%3D143126566579%26itm%3D143126566579&_trksid=p2481888.c100675.m4236&_trkparms=pageci%3Aa41d3006-3241-11e9-92c3-74dbd1807633%7Cparentrq%3Af89db60c1680a9cc5a445998ffec6b0b%7Ciid%3A1
Here's your chance!
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That price doesn't look too bad....yet. Still a day to go though.
Bill
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Looking forward to the pictures too Dave.
Bill
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That price doesn't look too bad....yet. Still a day to go though.
Bill
Itll be north of 350 anyway by tomorrow.
Dave
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OK some progress on the Levin
I started with 1 3/4 steel bar for the T nut. The post is 0.3125, and tapped M5. I'll cut the T nut next,.....All billet and one piece and full width of the compound....Nice and stiff.
Dave
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Looked in on the ebay bidding this morning. It up to 270 now but looks like there is some automatic bidding going on so I think you are right as to the 350+. 13 hours still to go. Pricey stuff with that Levin name on it :)
Bill
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Well....you need to be patient. Deals come up. My lathe is an early lathe, and is a War lathe, so no chrome plating. The ones that collect this stuff want the Chrome and they want it perfect....so my lathe went fairly cheap. That's fine... I want it as a lathe, not a dust collector sitting in a cabinet!..
We'll see about the cross slide... it is a triple slide...so it will command more
Dave
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A better choice for those looking to use the lathe
https://www.ebay.com/itm/Watchmakers-Marshall-8mm-lathe-3-Way-cross-slide-rest-needs-restored-watch-tool/123641511687?hash=item1cc99bbf07:g:-7EAAOSwOIxcYhdx:rk:19:pf:0
Dave
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Dave, when you say war lathe are you referring to just the period of manufacture or were these actually used in the war effort and if so in what ways given their small size. Just curious.
Bill
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Dave, when you say war lathe are you referring to just the period of manufacture or were these actually used in the war effort and if so in what ways given their small size. Just curious.
Bill
Yes,,, During the war, critical material was rationed carefully Chrome was one of those materials. So instead of chroming the lathe, they painted it. Hence my term 'War" lathe.
the paint is original...As to its use during the war? I have no idea. I always wished that old machines could talk.
This is a early Levin, If you look at some of the out of the way parts of the bed, you can see casting problems. Levin told me that the early lathes had casting issues, and although accurate, weren't necessarily very pretty in places. Who ever scraped mine in knew what they were doing. It's dead aligned with the TS, but at the bottom of the center T slot on the TS end, you can see some casting inclusion/blow holes....Not something I think would have gotten through in later years. Its got character.
Dave
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Heres a typical War Board tag on a machine tool from the period. My lathe has no such tag...but Levin only painted these lathes during this time
https://www.flickr.com/photos/mikegeiger/27727834236/
Dave
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Interesting. I did a bit of googling too on Levin Lathe History and came up with this: http://levinlathe.com/history/page4.html. An interesting bit of history of the company if you read the other pages also. Seems that one of the main things they did was to make sapphire jewel bearings which had been sourced from Switzerland and the US Govt. was concerned that the supply chain might be cut off by the war. I suppose these were not only for horological purposes but perhaps other war effort instrumentation such as bomb sights, etc. Just guessing on that though. I think it's fun to know some of the background of these old machines and it would indeed be nice if they could talk!!
Bill
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Yup I remember reading up on that. I don't think this lathe spent a lot of time running anything. but I could be wrong. It's just not worn at all...
I'd like to think it helped win the war, but I think that is at best wishful thinking...
Dave
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Though it does state, that in the early years, nearly ALL of levin's production went to the government for war production.....Lucy needs an American flag on her base somewhere I think....I'll work on that.
Dave
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Well I would give her a nice new paint job (says he who isn't painting his shop) but I figure you may want the original paint for posterity's sake. :lolb:
Bill
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Well I would give her a nice new paint job (says he who isn't painting his shop) but I figure you may want the original paint for posterity's sake. :lolb:
Bill
Actually, ive been torn on that point. Do I leave her as I found her? or Repaint....The paint is in pretty good shape, It's in one piece and doesn't seem to be chipping...and it's original.
On the other hand.....It's not perfect either....
I think I'll leave it for now....and we'll get her running and if I'm satisfied with everything I can revisit the paint question....
Dave
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T bolt just about done. Need to shorten it a touch and make a nice heavy M5 washer
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That looks great and sturdy too. It'll be cutting metal soon!!
Bill
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Just as a matter of interest, there are no t-slots on little C, just a post into the top of the compound.
Bill
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Yup i want to spread the load out and not put that T slot in bending.
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Spent some time making some new ball handles for the Levin. That little ball turning rig I bought worked just fine
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Dave, please show the ball turning rig. Those handles are looking very good. I need to do similar...
Pete
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Just posted it and a follow up post on using it.
It gets the job done on those small tool ball jobs... If you're trying to make a ball bearing...this isn't for you... You don't have the control over radius adjustment
Dave
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Next step, and it's up on the mill
I need to put the holes in for the handle, and the leadscrew shaft.
I just measured the leadscrews. They're 5.5 mm.....so It looks like I'm making a reamer....
Very wierd, it's an imperial screw....but metric shank where the ball handle fits....
One reamer coming up....
Dave
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Next step, and it's up on the mill
I need to put the holes in for the handle, and the leadscrew shaft.
I just measured the leadscrews. They're 5.5 mm.....so It looks like I'm making a reamer....
Very wierd, it's an imperial screw....but metric shank where the ball handle fits....
One reamer coming up....
Dave
Imperial screw, metric shank - sounds like they had two design teams in different countries!
Reminds me of the Oldsmobile my parents bought (new, right at start of new model year). When it came time for new shocks in the back, they would not fit. The mechanic finally figured out it had a Ford rear axle! Came from the factory that way - they must have been short of axles at first and found a Ford one that would fit at the supplier... All worked fine, just the shock absorber mounts were slightly different.
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Well at 20-30 bucks for a good reamer, and probably 2-3 days to deliver. .....for 2 holes....that I'll never use again.......
I made a reamer.
That's it for tonight though....
Dave
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Never seen that style reamer, is there a name for it?
:popcorn: :popcorn: :popcorn:
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Well It's always been a "Toolmakers Reamer" to me It's basically a D bit.
so I'll set up and put a 0.209 hole in with a #4 drill, and then bring it to 0.2165 with the reamer.
Dave
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It's made to size. 0.2165" 5.5mm When it was hardened, it'll grow about 0.0002", so it'll be slightly oversize, but that's fine
I didn't draw the temper. It's full hard.. Cherry red with a torch, drop it in gear oil.
Harder than woodpecker lips!
Stoned the cutting face ..
It took me 15 minutes to make this tool They work well, and saved me $30
Dave
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The other way to do this, is to buy drill blanks in HSS. The blanks are very inexpensive. Grind the angled face and you can have any reamer they make a blank for. Which is essentially every 0.001" increments...Saves a bunch of money on odd reamers.
Dave
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The handles look good so far Dave. Good to know that little rig worked ok.
Bill
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That's a pretty neat trick for the on-off reamer there Dave. What's the angle you used for the end of the tool? And what makes this more 'reamer-y' than a D-bit? I love learning new tricks like this :) I'll have to file this one away!
Kim
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The taper is 4 to 5 diameters long.
Dave
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Thanks for explaining about those readers, Dave. I have one of the EJWinter construction guides for a set of castings which includes a picture of one, but no description or even mention of any kind in the text.
Presumably you machine guide it through the drilled hole before moving anything, at similar speed to a standard reamer. I usually use my slowest speed (50 rpm).
I have not seen any other reference to the device so taking plenty of notice. Are there any tricks to making it or using it that we need to know?
MJM460
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Interesting I did a google search and found references.
I use it like any other reamer but you have to run it slower than hss. I machine the flat on the mill. I harden them and then sharpen them on a flat stone. No tcg needed.
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Make sure theyre cleaned up after hardening.
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Dang brother, you were either up VERY late or up VERY early :o
Bill
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Woke up early......takes some time to turn it back off.
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I have some "work" work to do this morning, and then I can get on with the handles and some other parts for a friend...no not Terry....
Dave
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First hole #4 drill followed by the reamer. Cut like buttah.
Setting up the other holes now.
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Alright. Handles complete!
Here's a few pics of the process
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Looks beautiful, Dave!
Kim
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Sweet!! Those look just right...
Pete
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Well done Dave. They look great!!
Bill
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I can clean up the drawing at some point and post it if there is interest.
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No engine stuff this weekend, but I did get a start on a micro drill chuck for the Levin. My goal is to get a chuck that has minimal run out on 1/8 shank carbide drills below 0.010". I've made 2 this weekend, and I've not been real happy with them..so I'm working on # 3 here. The drills are 1/8 shank PCB drills which are accurate, and plentiful, The drill will be held in with a small set screw. This one just might be the one! I've still got to drill and tap for the screw. Then I'll harden it, and draw it back to straw. It will be loctited in position on the Levin so that the alignment can be held....sub 0.0002"....this little lathe is pretty amazing....fun to get in the shop
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Loctited to what Dave?
Bill
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5/16 drill blank tailstock runner
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The lathe is running! I chucked up a piece of 1/4 round 0-1 about 1 1/2 inches out from the spindle nose and it turned 0.020 off like it was a doddle! No chatter...and that motor isn't backing down anytime soon... I'll post up some thing this weekend...planning a busy weekend. I need to get this shop sorted out ...
Dave
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Sounds good Dave. Keep us posted on progress.
Bill
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The Levin punching way above its weight...with ease. Taking a 1/4 tool steel blank down 0.050" in one pass a inch and a half from the spindle nose without tail stock support.
Pretty awful video quality...but I did take it alone.....
https://www.facebook.com/mcandrew.piper/videos/2328180374126022/?t=1
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This is coming as well, I'll mount it to the cross slide rear t slot
I'll plug it into my droid...should be easier on the eyes...
Dave
https://www.amscope.com/200x-usb-digital-handheld-microscope-with-built-in-leds-and-metal-stand.html
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Nice Dave, very nice. I wish I could find one. Nothing ever shows up around here.
-Bob
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Hope the QCTP is working out well for you Dave.
Bill
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Hope the QCTP is working out well for you Dave.
Bill
It's perfect....Im going to order 2 more holders
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Nice Dave, very nice. I wish I could find one. Nothing ever shows up around here.
-Bob
keep looking...they are out there ....I got mine on the bay
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You know that lathe.looks a lot like my American watch makers lathe. But it doesn’t have the adjustable cross slide. By the way amazon has some good prices on digital scope. I found this one look at the zoom ratio.
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They all copied the Webster Whitcomb pattern...even Levin
....but it's a Levin...
Dave
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Good to hear. They are nicely made I think for light lathes.
Bill
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.050" stock removal: look out Abom 8). Little girl looks to be doing nicely :ThumbsUp: :ThumbsUp:
Cletus