:whoohoo: :popcorn: :popcorn: :ThumbsUp: :ThumbsUp: :popcorn: :popcorn: :whoohoo:Pete,
I don't know whether to laugh or cry. I've had that book on the shelf right above my desk for over 10 years.
As I age I think of selling it on.
:cheers:
Pete
I do parts lists for my engine as well but I decided it was best not to write down how much it cost :paranoia: I prefer to just tick that I have it availableIt did give me pause; putting the cost of materials in the sheet. But it also helped me make some material trade-offs. Some of the columns I've hidden were a comparison between a "Mostly Brass" model and my hodge-podge version. I hid the columns because I stopped keeping it up at some point and I didn't want to spend the time to fix it. I figure I saved about 35-40% in cost by avoiding gratuitous use of brass :). Don't get me wrong - there will still be a lot of brass! But dramatically less than Kozo uses!
I also like to mark off the date I complete each part - it shows how quickly the engine came together (or how slowly/how long the build gaps were :facepalm2: )
As a builder of the 7.5" gauge version I will follow your adventure with interest. There are several websites that list some of the few errors in the plans, so I'd familiarize yourself with those.
You might want to check out Friends Models for castings of the loco drivers and cylinders.
Now we need to see the other side of the wheels. :mischief:And the bin of spares...
Now we need to see the other side of the wheels. :mischief:Kvom, that picture shows both sides - half of them are right-side-up, and the other half are upside-down. :Jester:
And the bin of spares...Yeah, didn't show the recycle bin (yet). There's only ONE puck in the reuse bin - so far. I mis-read my dial caliper (thought it said 0.775" and it really said 0.675, and I cut the hub way too small). I figured I'd get through the next series of steps on the wheels then show my rejects. Not that I think there will be any more. No, of course not. But I don't want to Jinx it! ;)
:cheers:
Yeah. I'm feelin' kinda irritated with the whole thing at the moment.
I'll probably just go away and try not to think about it for a while.
Assuming you cut the taper so that the flange diameter is intact, then the diameter of the face of the wheel is already a bit smaller. But cutting the proper taper won't change that; only the flange diameter will end up being reduced. Based on this and the drawings, I calculated that the wheels are smaller by .049" than per plan.So it scales out to wheels with a bit of wear that the maintenance shop refaced. Realistic!
Why not machining the wheels down to square and fit new rims on each one? That should at least safe half the work!
You don.'t even need to heat shrink them - I would just use some loctite and glue those rims on the wheel.
That is in the end even more realistic bexcause thats how wheels were made - except the fitting method.
Florian
I would try turning one to the correct angle and just see what it looks like. The only bit that would give the game away would be the thickness of the tyre.
Steve
You could use some DOM tubing but that may also cost as much as the solid 12L14.
https://www.speedymetals.com/pc-3504-8242-2-14-od-x-375-wall-dom-steel-tube.aspx
Dave
Kim, if you can live with the reduced diameter of the wheels as others have calculated, that would seem the best option other than starting over. The wheels will look right at least.
Bill
I would try turning one to the correct angle and just see what it looks like. The only bit that would give the game away would be the thickness of the tyre.
Steve
Yes, this is another strong contender. If I do this, the whole wheel will be 0.084" smaller than its supposed to be and the tender will sit 0.042" lower than designed. That's almost 3/64". Maybe not a big deal, but I'm not sure I will be happy.
Ah... decisions, decisions...
Kim
... when I was an apprentice I was told the difference an amateur and a professional was how well they can get out of a situation. Well executed recovery.Well, then I guess I can emulate a professional as long as I have a large team of helpful coaches giving me tips and suggestions! :ROFL:
Thanks Kim. I mis-spoke. What I had meant was the tender truck frames....my bad. An index may be a good idea, not sure anyone has tried that. Guess I will have to buy the book to follow along. Can't tell the players without a program right?? :Lol:Clearly, everyone needs the hymnal so they can follow along :ROFL:
Bill
Thanks CNR, that's a very clever idea! That would get them lined up and solve the vertical alignment and rotational issues.
Is there a standard way to get the letters spaced evenly? Or do you just eyeball it?
Thank you!
Kim
It ain’t the destination, it’s the ride 8) ;)
How do you like that diamond tool holder Kim?I love it! It is very consistent. It works well on almost any material, for both facing and turning. It's easy to sharpen, is quite sturdy, and generally leaves a great finish.
It ain’t the destination, it’s the ride 8) ;)
Cletus
Thanks Bill!
Yeah, me too! But I'm going to have to start W**k next week. :/ I'm enjoying having a bit of shop time every day. Guess it gives me something to look forward to in my retirement :D
Kim
For temporary soft jaws for your vise, just mill some aluminum in the form of "angle iron" that sits on top of the steel jaws.I'll probably do that) though this is working at the moment :)
Hi Kim
Following along, and enjoying it. I've got the book, and even got around to drawing up a BOM a few years ago...
Maybe seeing you progress will get me off my behind...
Cheers, Joe
Great progress Kim and that assembly picture helps a lot, though I am still looking forward to seeing them assembled and functional.I looked at my original post and apparently my number 8 came out as a sunglasses guy (8), so I had to go back and add a space to keep the parser from turning into an emoji! (I'd put the numbers in parentheses which is what created the emoji, like ( 8 ) but without the spaces). Anyway, hopefully that makes a little more sense than the cool sunglasses guy :embarassed:
I'd love to see your Pennsy. Do you have a build thread going? Don't remember seeing it. If not, you should one and post a few progress photos!
Kim
Hi Kim, looks like spring's a bit early this year in your shop! :naughty::Lol:
Fantastic result Kim - the springs and trucks looks amassing :praise2:
If I had walked and started commenting on the result I would have say that the boogies looks great, but you call them trucks - is this a country specific name ? :noidea:
I was wondering about that too, figured it was one of those regional or time things. Though it does get more complicated if you need to transport a wheel assembly to the shop across town - do you put the bogie on the truck (flatbed, that is), or the truck on the truck, or the truck on the lorry.... :insane:Fantastic result Kim - the springs and trucks looks amassing :praise2:
If I had walked and started commenting on the result I would have say that the boogies looks great, but you call them trucks - is this a country specific name ? :noidea:
Interesting observation. Yeah, I've heard of bogies before. I was into Lego trains for many years (I am an Adult Fan of Lego (AFOL, if you will)) and since Lego is based out of Europe, the parts to make the truck were always called bogies. I never understood it, but used the term. I had to look this up. And of course, Wiki has the answer:
From: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bogie (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bogie)
"A bogie in the UK, or a railroad truck, wheel truck, or simply truck in North America, is a structure underneath a railway vehicle (wagon, coach or locomotive) to which axles (and, hence, wheels) are attached through bearings. In Indian English, bogie may also refer to an entire railway carriage.[4] In South Africa, the term bogie is often alternatively used to refer to a freight or goods wagon (shortened from bogie wagon)."
So, yes, you're right. It's one of those differences caused by the Atlantic ocean apparently - bogie vs truck.
I learn something every day on this forum!
Kim
Sills look great Kim. :ThumbsUp: :ThumbsUp: :ThumbsUp:Re your lineup marks - maybe not strictly required in this case, but I think it's a good habit to get into to "think precision" in all ops. The easy ones are still easy but the tough ones are less tough, with this approach.Yeah, you're right, it may not make much, if any difference in this case. But since I machined them together this way I just want to be able to keep track of that. Sometimes it does matter, so I just try to maintain good habits :)
Standing by with :popcorn:!
Dave, actually my mill does have a Ram head, and that a great idea! I've got to learn how to use the capabilities of my new tools. I have to learn to think differently...
Thank you all for helping me to think of options. I really appreciate it.
Kim
If you have another small chunk of the same steel, you could always cut off the end and silver solder a new end on it. I did that on my Shay frames after a measure-once-cut-twice boo-boo.Considering this. though as has been said, likely more trouble than its worth, but I might give it a shot anyway. Maybe I'll go to double the work to NOT have to re-do work :) But not 4x. And Definitely not 10x. I have my limits! :Lol:
Hi Kim, I feel your pain, but as already said, remake seems to be the best option.Thanks Achim, yeah, might go the remake route. But I'm going to struggle with it for a bit before I go that way. Even though its likely the best option ;)
And spend some more money for industrial quality tabs.
My two Cent after banning the Chinese stuff from my shop.
What may be the reason for that ban ?
I was looking for a picture, but me and the forum search tool don't always get along. :lolb:Yes, I've found the same. The search engine built into the forum software is marginal at best. I tend to have better luck just doing a google search and including "ModelEnginenMaker" in the search. I often get better forum results that way!
If you already know about all this, or if I'm not seeing the taps correctly in your pics, please excuse me for stating the obvious - just disregard it.Cnr, please never worry about that in any reply to me. Even if I know it, it won't hurt to hear it again. And if people hold back giving me good advise, I'm the worse for it! Besides, even if I knew it, I wasn't taking advantage of my knowledge because I clearly broke the tap! This is exactly why I share my foibles (and there are plenty of them!); so I can learn and get incrementally better with every screw-up. ( I mean, I already messed up, so I might as well get something worthwhile out of it, right? :Lol: )
I love form taps for making threads in softer metals like 1018 even when hand tapping. I avoid cut taps whenever possible.
Form taps are much stouter and make no chips. The formed threads are typically stronger, too, due to the work hardening that occurs while forming the threads. Form taps do require more care with tap drill sizing that do cutting taps.I love form taps for making threads in softer metals like 1018 even when hand tapping. I avoid cut taps whenever possible.
Oh, and I meant to ask... Why do you avoid cutting taps? Inquiring minds want to know! :)
Kim
Well Kim, the fact that you are moving along at a human pace, does not make it less enjoyable for the rest of us to follow :ThumbsUp: :cheers: :popcorn:Absolutely! We all worked for the big guy up north till the, um, incident. I am not really any bigger than them, its just camera angles! :Jester:
And on a side note about Chris and his elves - since he is more or less one himself - you might consider them his family ;)
Was the countersink bit an import?
That seems a reasonable price Kim, Like you say, there is always the fabrication option down the road if needed.Before installing the new one, take measurements for any possible future making of a replacement replacement...
Bill
What worries me is how much I forget when I stop thinking about something for 7 MINUTES.
Hi Kim, I am curious about the differences between the painted parts and now the same parts have been stripped and powder coated. Is the powder coating that much better than an enamel finish? It also appears to a more complicated process.
Mike
With all parts powder coated, today I reassembled the Tender frame and trucks.
(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/021a-TankFloor-1-DSC_5984.jpg)
(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/021a-TankFloor-2-DSC_5988.jpg)
I’m really pleased with the powder coating!
Kim
You might want to use 303SS instead.
Happy to see those brass slotted screws were just temporary. :pinkelephant:
A floor mounted vertical bandsaw is really a necessity for metalwork. You still have throat limitations on really large pieces, but they're a really useful piece of equipment.
I painted the Joy engine with automotive enamel and an airbrush, then the Muncaster with powder. Both do a much better job than rattle can paint. The advantage of powder is elimination of drips as well as hardness.
Holey base plate Batman! :o
Here you can see the three little brads I used for registration pins:
Nice progress Kim :ThumbsUp:QuoteHere you can see the three little brads I used for registration pins:
Oh man they are small :o How did you make them stay - are they soldered in place ?
Impressive as always Kim. Sorry about the redo, but you seem much happier with things now which is good!!Thanks Bill! I am much happier :). There are still things that could be better, but it passed the 'good enough' point on my quality meter, so we're going forward!
Bill
Thanks for taking a look.
QuoteThanks for taking a look.It is us who should be thanking you for all the work - we are just enjoying the Journey from a safe distance :)
:cheers: :popcorn:
What are you using to clean off the old flux Kim?
Jo
Nice progress and recoveries Kim :cheers:
I would not be too worried about the coloration as long as the tank is water tight - as I'm sure it will be painted later (or ?).
Per
And yes, it will definitely be painted! Just have to make sure and get the gunk off of it so the paint's sticking to the metal! :)
Your tank come out really nice Kim.Having used one I could say - they spray a very small pattern, would take a long time to do an area that big. Also would give the metal some texture that you may not want.
I wonder how an airbrush sand blaster would work for cleaning things up?
Jim
And some time is better than no time!
Thanks, Chris and Carl,A snowy Saturday over here!
Appreciate your stopping by on this rainy Saturday! (of course, this time of year, most Saturdays are rainy in the NW :) ).
Kim
... then took some beauty shots: ...
The last many pictures of the Tender always has me thinking that you are very close to finish it and start on the Loco ..... But you keep on making more parts for the Tender :thinking:
and yes, I double-checked before sawing!).
Yes, I remembered to check THIS time - you know how many times I've done it backwards because I didn't remember to check? Well, I don't. Because it's such an embarrassingly large number that not only do I NOT want to remember, my subconscious actively works to keep me from remembering so that I won't get overly discouraged. But if you want to know, read back through my builds and count the number of times. Then multiply by 3. Because sometimes I don't even mention it because its so embarrassing!and yes, I double-checked before sawing!).Sigh. Just what I needed. A reminder. I trimmed two parts today only to discover I had read the dimension between holes rather than the outer dimension.
I don't think double-checking works for me. I'm not sure triple-checking is enough.
:ThumbsUp: :ThumbsUp: :ThumbsUp: :popcorn: :popcorn: :popcorn::slap:
I worked with a carpenter once called Ray Ling, he was really good at banisters and spindles, for some reason....... :Lol:
:Jester::ThumbsUp: :ThumbsUp: :ThumbsUp: :popcorn: :popcorn: :popcorn::slap:
I worked with a carpenter once called Ray Ling, he was really good at banisters and spindles, for some reason....... :Lol:
Hi KIm,
This is a labour of love. You have put so much care and precision into your build. The careful, step-by-step photography also indicates the pride and enjoyment you are getting out of this amazing construction. :praise2:
Hi KIm,
This is a labour of love. You have put so much care and precision into your build. The careful, step-by-step photography also indicates the pride and enjoyment you are getting out of this amazing construction. :praise2:
Maybe they're going to surf the Atlantic? Do people surf on the east coast? I don't know :)There are definitely surfers on the east coast. Surf is nothing like the wave height in Hawaii though!
Kim
Can you tell me more details about hardening and tempering that cutter?I don't have a heat treating oven, so I just use my torch. I heat the part up till it's a nice cherry red (or more) and hold it there for a few min, then douse it in water. I use water because I'm using W-1, which is water hardening tool steel. (O-1 would be oil hardening.)
(That raises another question for me...and hopefully I'm not hijacking things...)Definitely not hijacking the thread! This is good stuff!
I recently modified an HSS cutter. All I did was grind, file, and sharpen. No hardening or tempering.
Anything wrong with that?
Did you harden and temper because you used tool steel? (And I'm not sure what the difference is between HSS and tool steel.)Yup, just what you said. I think tool steel is just high carbon steel that hasn't been hardened yet so you can still work it easily. HSS is probably a little more fancy than just W-1 tool steel, but I don't know the specific difference. Smarter people on this board probably do though, and hopefully they'll answer.
Question...what are you doing for lighting when you take pictures? I've really struggled getting decent pics.I turn off all my task lighting and just use the ambient shot light, which is still pretty bright, but it doesn't glare nearly as bad as the task lights do. I use a tripod and take long exposures, probably f-stop of 13 to 32 and an exposure of 2-6 seconds (sometimes up to 10s, but usually not that long).
Nice work on the pump! As I recall, that counterbore above the threads is for an o-ring to seat in, to seal up the top plug piece.
Let's see... since you did your Shay you've only completed another 143 metal working projects, several dozen carvings, nine RC Submarines, and multi-dozen other projects... and you didn't remember if there was an o-ring? :thinking: I don't think you need to worry about your memory, Chris! You remember more about projects you did 7-8 years ago than I do about the one I'm doing right now! :ROFL::cheers:
Kim
Nice work. I was also working on the pump body this weekend. What a stressful part as there are some tricky (to me) steps and a lot of time and material $ goes into the pump body. Unfortunately I could not hold the 0.375 cylinder bore on my sloppy 7” lathe. I ordered some 10mm 303 stainless stock that I’ll need to turn down a hair to save this assembly.Thanks Matthew! it does have a lot of steps! I tried not to think about how much work it would be to re-do if I screwed up. Just tried to focus carefully on each step as I went. Hopefully I did OK. Guess we'll see soon!
You did a really nice job on this, and are flying compared to me!
Great progress Kim - hope you dont make the mistake I did on first pump, and you use stainless spring and ball bearings! Mine worked at first, then rusted. :wallbang: Got right materials for reworking it.Yes, I was very careful to select stainless balls and stainless wire for the springs. Made it a big harder to source, but it seemed like an important detail :)
Thank you for the info, Achim! I'm wondering if there's any US distributor that has those Silicon balls? Those look like they'd be really good for these type of ball-check valves.Closest I have seen are these from McmasterCarr - not the same compound as he linked to, but meant for same use:
I did use a D-bit to create the seat, so hopefully it looks like the more ideal case in your excellent drawing. But it can be hard to get a good, smooth seat there. I may see if I can find some of those balls like that.
Thanks,
Kim
Nice clean job, should be pumping water soon!Thanks Chris! :cheers:
Nice work on the pump Kim!The bore for the plunger is wider out at the end for the inner edge of the o-ring, the outer end of the o-ring is pressed in by the o-ring retainer collar.
Just curious, what holds the O-ring in place?
Dave
What I should have said is what holds the O-ring retainer collar in place. :wallbang:Ah - the little hole above the opening of the bore is for a set screw. :cheers:
Dave
Hi Kim,
Sorry for the slow reply, re the balls! Ok so these are what I’m talking about...
https://www.ebay.com/sch/i.html?_from=R40&_trksid=m570.l1313&_nkw=silicon+nitride+balls&_sacat=0
The reason to go for these over stainless is they are ROUND......stainless may not be, well not quite as round!
How hard they are shouldn’t be an issue as a non return as they dont open / close at a quick rate, hence beat the seat.
<snip>
Cheers Kerrin
Collets by 1/64? That's a major investment! :ThumbsUp:
Yeah, that's what I was worried about, Chris - melting the screen. Which is why I didn't consider hard solder (at least not much :) ).Maybe one of the thicker loctites, like 638, the wires dont give much contact patch. Maybe a better way would be to make a cap with an open center, would not need to be thick, just enough to hold the screen in place, and the cylindrical sides would give surface area for the solder or loctite.
Do you think Loktite would work? Seems like a filter screen on the intake isn't stressed THAT much. And it certainly won't be hot!
Kim
Yeah, that's what I was worried about, Chris - melting the screen. Which is why I didn't consider hard solder (at least not much :)).
Do you think Loktite would work? Seems like a filter screen on the intake isn't stressed THAT much. And it certainly won't be hot!
Kim
Yeah, I bought a pack of 100 "brass pipe screens" that are 3/4" round. It was cheap that way, but I'm not sure it was the best idea? It was something like this (if not exactly this): https://www.amazon.com/Brass-Pipe-Screens-Screen-Filters/dp/B073JP7SFR/ref=sr_1_6?dchild=1&keywords=3%2F4%22+brass+screens&qid=1595306798&sr=8-6 (https://www.amazon.com/Brass-Pipe-Screens-Screen-Filters/dp/B073JP7SFR/ref=sr_1_6?dchild=1&keywords=3%2F4%22+brass+screens&qid=1595306798&sr=8-6)Yeah, that's what I was worried about, Chris - melting the screen. Which is why I didn't consider hard solder (at least not much :)).
Do you think Loktite would work? Seems like a filter screen on the intake isn't stressed THAT much. And it certainly won't be hot!
Kim
I ordered some brass screen from McMaster hoping that it will stick to solder. Not sure if it is too fine a mesh or not. That could be an option, I hope?
Maybe just a dab of "Super Glue" on the screen?Yeah, that's what I'm currently thinking :)
John
Still following along and enjoying :praise2: :praise2: Ball valves are tricky things ::) The bore of the seating is also important, it should at least be reamed if the seating is flat or raised as in Achim's drawing.
that looks goodThanks John!
My powder gun is dual voltage, with supposedly the lower voltage best for getting into the tight spots. Yours turned out great with two coats.
Wonderful fabrication work on that tank. Must have taken great skill and concentration to get everything to line up!
I had steel boiler made (not copper), bought 2 injectors vs. axle pump, and purchased oiler, blowdown valves, sight glass, etc. Purchased a tender body (not the slant back). Horn made from a kit. Tender trucks and couplers from Tom Bee.
Driver and cylinder castings from Friends. Loco weighs about 150 lbs.
My build thread is on the "other" site starting 10 years ago.
https://www.homemodelenginemachinist.com/threads/kozo-a3-in-1-5-scale.10775/
I apologize for any inconvenience you experienced due to my error and my editor takes full responsibility for the mistake.
QuoteI apologize for any inconvenience you experienced due to my error and my editor takes full responsibility for the mistake.
:ROFL: :lolb: I would love to use that one myself .... if I can remember to do so ....
Nice progress Kim.
For me, 2-flute cutters are best for aluminum, but for steel and light cuts they work just fine.
Chapter 10.7 – Front Coupler Pocket
Here's a shot of me tapping the 0-80 holes. Have I mentioned that this is the BEST little tap handle ever? If you don’t have one of these, do yourself a favor and spend a few bucks and get one! I got mine from Little Machine Shop*.
*No affiliation with LMS other than a satisfied customer. All standard disclaimers apply.
Thanks for stopping by,
Kim
And now you know how to make staples too.... I'll take 1000... :Lol:
Hi Kim, a handy trick for separating soldered halves type parts, like your bushings: use a pair of expanding type e-ring pliers to pop them apart while heating. You want the pliers that remove external e-rings, where the ends expand. Did that the last few sets of conrod bearings I made. Your chassis is coming together! :ThumbsUp: :ThumbsUp: :ThumbsUp: :popcorn: :popcorn: :popcorn:
I wimped out and bought the casting - and finishing those nearly killed me!
Do you have or could you borrow a second torch to add more heat on the opposite side you are working? That can help when silver soldering deep or heavy assys. Just food for thought. Even an additional Spitfire type air/propane mixer tube plumbing torch can help.
What I would of first done was to solder the inter spokes since there is less mass there and the heat would not of transfer to the outer rim very much. After completing the inner then I would concentrate on the outer rim with heat specifically in spots like two spokes at a time then move to the next two etc... just my two cents ..
A small blast cabinet would sure be nice to clean the wheels after silver soldering. ;)No, Dave, I'm ashamed to say that I haven't tried that yet. :embarassed: But I'm going to!
Did you ever try boiling water to remove the flux?
I have to agree - single point threading is fast becoming my favourite turning job. Don't know why. Something about knowing what's going on synchronizing everything on the lathe that is just fun.Totally agree about threading!
That came out great! It's a keeper to me.Unfortunately, if you saw it in person, you'd be able to see that a couple of the spokes are out of alignment. Two directly across from each other don't line up :( It's noticeable in a few of the close-ups.
I dont know if i missed it or just over looked it. I did not seam to find your BOM spreadsheet. I am looking a starting this project. just ordered the book.Kozo usually has the BOM in the back of the book. Excellent books, I've learned a lot from them.
I dont know if i missed it or just over looked it. I did not seam to find your BOM spreadsheet. I am looking a starting this project. just ordered the book.Interestingly, there is no BOM for this engine in Kozo's book. And frankly, even if there was, I did a lot of substitutions with the materials I could find available.
I took a toaster oven about that size and install a temperature controller for $38 with temp probe, control cube, and heat sink. Haven’t finished tuning it up, it over shoots about 5 degrees which is not bad.
I love the wheels - especially those two where you 'only have a red stripe' round the recessed edge of the counterweight - gives them an extra touch of Class :praise2:
Those pins have some crazy tolerances. You can imagine me reading the drawings, then looking at my 7x16 mini-lathe, then back to the drawing, then frowning at the mini lathe ....
I made it work by doing the last few tenths with hand files! In the end it not sure that level of tolerance was really necessary. But here we are.
What an elegant jig! Never seen that kind before.
And its nice to see someone else using 'free-range metal' for jigs! Dug out of those surface mines called 'forests'...
Chapter 12.6 – Quartering
To make the quartering jig, I pulled out all my latent woodworking skills. .... This is what Kozo shows in his book and I’m sure is standard practice, but all new to me.
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/082a-Quartering-1-DSC_8206.jpg)
....
That’s it for this update!
Kim
For the future reference of others (I hope Kim does not mind) ...Kim not only doesn't mind, he welcomes it! Additional info is AWAYS welcome and encouraged! Thank you, Matthew!
you can make this jig w/o a rotary table. Secure the two ends to one another as Kim did - they MUST be machined together (mine were aluminum so I screwed them together). Then you can clamp this to your milling machine table, angled to 45* (I used a Combination square. This only needs to be close to 45). Be sure to put something underneath them, like plywood, to not mill your table!
Now, you mill that inside “V” using x and y feed, one axis at a time. This will get you the 90* “v” you need. There is a jog in the parts that is oriented differently on each side of the jig - so you will need to flip one of the ends before assembly. In a sense, that makes the most critical part of this jig drilling the holes used to bolt each side of the jig to the base such that the ends are perfectly aligned.
A lot of good stuff happening in this thread, looking good Kim!
:cheers:
Don
Was that a bad call? (he asks in retrospect? - learning for the future.)
Kim
Something I've been meaning to ask - does anyone know where you can get some 3.5" track? I've looked around some and haven't found too many options. At one time, I found a place where you could get a track-shaped piece of steel (I-beam kind of thing) that was scale size for 3/4" - it was like a 6 or 8 foot length. But I can't find that now. I'd take pre-made track sections too, but I haven't been able to find that.
Any pointers would be very welcome!
Kim
Something I've been meaning to ask - does anyone know where you can get some 3.5" track? I've looked around some and haven't found too many options. At one time, I found a place where you could get a track-shaped piece of steel (I-beam kind of thing) that was scale size for 3/4" - it was like a 6 or 8 foot length. But I can't find that now. I'd take pre-made track sections too, but I haven't been able to find that.Kim,
Any pointers would be very welcome!
Kim
Something I've been meaning to ask - does anyone know where you can get some 3.5" track? I've looked around some and haven't found too many options. At one time, I found a place where you could get a track-shaped piece of steel (I-beam kind of thing) that was scale size for 3/4" - it was like a 6 or 8 foot length. But I can't find that now. I'd take pre-made track sections too, but I haven't been able to find that.Kim how much rail do you need? Jason only has G1 track in his store. The rail is listed as code 250 for Sunset Valley track this means the rail is .25" tall. LBG track is code 332 or .332" tall. For most G1 scales code 332 is huge. (elephant track)
Any pointers would be very welcome!
Kim
Great sequence, worked great! On the counterbore, did you harden/temper it?
That's really nice work Kim, both the parts and the write-up.
It would seem that those little tapped holes would be for a small oil cup, but when I reviewed my copy of the book the bushings aren't shown as being drilled, so oil wouldn't get through anyway. Maybe a dummy oil cup was intended? I couldn't find a single photo or drawing showing the side rods assembled in anything other than a "rods down" position, in which case that area is always hidden from view. I imagine you looked too, but I got curious.
Great start on the rods Kim! :ThumbsUp: :ThumbsUp: :ThumbsUp: :popcorn: :popcorn: :popcorn:
PS rods I have made usually warp badly when I mill the opposite side. I think this is because my metal suppliers slip Bananium alloy into my order rather than plain black hot rolled steel I ordered. Must be cheaper than black HRS. :shrug: :Lol:
Looking good, Kim! Somehow getting side and main rods done turns a rolling chassis into a locomotive chassis :).
By the way, I was looking at various compressed air engines yesterday and ran across your Radial-5 build. Went right out and ordered the book those plans are in. You did a great job on that one too!
Thanks Ronald! (BTW, do you go by Ron, or Ronald?)
QuoteThanks Ronald! (BTW, do you go by Ron, or Ronald?)
I normally go by Ron and please feel free to use that. I only use Ronald on the signature line to avoid confusion with the "other" Ron on the forum. :)
If it is 932 (SAE 660) bronze, that is called Bearing Bronze, it is not Phosphor bronze. It machines much easier than phosphor bronze does, less grabby and cooler. I like it a lot better than the phosphor bronze.
At this point, it was just too hot and I decided to close up for the day.When my son and daughter-in-law bought their house in Portland, they thought "We don't need to install AC, this is cool and rainy Portland". After suffering through the last couple of summers of record heat, they just recently corrected their mistake!
I'm having fun and enjoying my time building and learning. And that's what counts, right?
Very nice result and work Kim :cheers:
Considering that others here try to make their shafts thicker midway between the bearings, to get a more "organic form" - it's a feature ;)
If it had a very small ridge all way around and a "draft angle" towards each end - you could claim it's from the casting process ;D
And if we all pull together on this one, we might end up with way to manyexcusesexplanations :LittleDevil:
Per
I would stay away from using the t-handle tap wrench for starting a tap, as it's too easy to start crooked. If you don't have a tapping station, then using the mill chuck right after drilling will start the tap straight.Yeah, very true. The gizmo at the top of that first picture is actually a tapping block to help me start the tap straight. I use it when I don't have it setup in the mill. In this case, I believe that I just tried to tap past the bottom of the hole... :( I was just putting the last little pressure on it to see if I was at the bottom of the hole and - snap - I sure was at the bottom. :( I should have known better. I did know better. I was just being careless today, as shown by; broken tap, misplaced hole, broken end mill.
Personally I'd have used an 8-32 tap, which one is very likely to have already.Yeah, I gave that serious consideration. I finally decided to go with the 8-36 thinking that maybe that very short tapped hole would get an extra thread by using the 36 TPI. It was only 5/32" deep, I'm thinking that's why Kozo specified 8-36? Maybe? Or maybe not being as familiar with the US system he didn't really know what was common, so just picked what he wanted. He does use a lot of non-standard threads!
Great looking pair of cylinders & chests Kim! :ThumbsUp:
Never tried a wood router bit for brass, nice idea for light cuts. :ThumbsUp: :popcorn:Huh, I'm sure I've seen other people on this forum use wood router bits like this, I could have sworn that one of them was you! guess I was wrong there, eh? :)
Maybe I did at one point - dont recall! I know I've used quarter-round end mills. :thinking: Too many projects, not enough brain cells surviving the Elfensteiner beer with the elves...!Never tried a wood router bit for brass, nice idea for light cuts. :ThumbsUp: :popcorn:Huh, I'm sure I've seen other people on this forum use wood router bits like this, I could have sworn that one of them was you! guess I was wrong there, eh? :)
Kim
Gotta watch that Elfensteiner! It can really sneak up on you after 50-60 thimble-steins! :cheers:Maybe I did at one point - dont recall! I know I've used quarter-round end mills. :thinking: Too many projects, not enough brain cells surviving the Elfensteiner beer with the elves...!Never tried a wood router bit for brass, nice idea for light cuts. :ThumbsUp: :popcorn:Huh, I'm sure I've seen other people on this forum use wood router bits like this, I could have sworn that one of them was you! guess I was wrong there, eh? :)
Kim
Great looking parts! Whats up next in the queue?
:popcorn: :popcorn: :popcorn:
So many little pieces :) :) :wine1:
What do you do for small threads? As I see it the USA threads go down to 0-80 which is around M1.6/12BA. George Britnell seems to move to metric threads for the small sizes.
The standard thread sizes do keep going down in size, 00-90, 00-120, and beyond - smallest taps I have are 00-90, rarely use that one and very delicate. Watchmakers stuff!Yes, what Chris said :) I knew there was a 00, just wasn't sure of the TPI. 00-90 it is. :) And yes, those get very small!
Those cylinder assemblies are phenomenal - the detailing in terms of putting fillets on all the corners of the covers really sets them off, and they just look like gold all in brass like that. That's some very fine and detailed work.
It's fascinating to go back several pages and review and watch everything coming together from stock material. I had missed the post on the rectangular outer covers for the steam chests, so I'm glad I caught up on all that.
Here's a link I just found that shows the sizes of those small screw sizes: https://pages.mtu.edu/~suits/misc/tapsizes.html (https://pages.mtu.edu/~suits/misc/tapsizes.html)
0-80 has a major diameter of 0.060", just under 1/16" of an inch. The 00-90 is 0.044" and 000-120 is 0.034" (that's a hair over 1/32" - that's small! :o).
Kim, That tap chart has an error. 00-90 is 0.047" in diameter each screw size is 0.013" apart so 0.060" - 0.013" = 0.047".
http://www.custompartnet.com/tap-size-chart
I use 1.2mm for 00-90 most of the time. My smallest tap and die combination is 000-120 but I have not yet had to go that small.
Cheers Dan
I’ve been calling it a Steam Tee, but I guess Kozo just calls it a Tee.I think your use of the term "Steam Tee" is better. I remember reading that part of Kozo's book and thinking "what exactly is this Tee thing for?" and having to look around at the drawings to figure it out.
Make sure that the length of the tee is the same as the outside width of the frame, or slightly longer so that you can adjust it during assembly. The ends of the tee mount flush to the cylinders, and then the cylinders to the frame.
Nice soldering work Kim, that came out really well. What is the pickle you are referring to? A basic passivation of some sort?Thanks Stuart!
Interesting! I am considering a roll form tap for the con rods on the 12, for added strength. something to keep in mindRoll form taps add strength?
Dave
Looking good :) :) :wine1: Is the slight pink tinge on the cylinders due to the pickling?
Interestingly, the whole thing is VERY front-heavy right now.I had the same issue with the little 0-4-0 I built. I kept a weight attached to the rear of the frame until the boiler went on, then it wasn't needed anymore.
Kim....... not being familiar with this engine, design or build, what type of gasket material will you be using on these two principal joint faces between the T distribution body and the cylinder block faces?
Derek
QuoteInterestingly, the whole thing is VERY front-heavy right now.I had the same issue with the little 0-4-0 I built. I kept a weight attached to the rear of the frame until the boiler went on, then it wasn't needed anymore.
Hi KimWhat kind of temperature can the 518 withstand? Whats it like to take apart again?
The 518 gasket eliminator is a great product, I have been using it for years.
The running gear looks real nice with the cylinders added.
Dave
Hi KimWhat kind of temperature can the 518 withstand? Whats it like to take apart again?
The 518 gasket eliminator is a great product, I have been using it for years.
The running gear looks real nice with the cylinders added.
Dave
:ThumbsUp: :ThumbsUp: :ThumbsUp: :popcorn: :popcorn: :popcorn:
Good luck with the garage cleanup. BTW I know a guy on here with a Marion steam shovel, a Mann steam truck, and lots of shop elves, if you need a hand...... :Lol:
:ThumbsUp: :ThumbsUp: :ThumbsUp: :popcorn: :popcorn: :popcorn:
Good luck with the garage cleanup. BTW I know a guy on here with a Marion steam shovel, a Mann steam truck, and lots of shop elves, if you need a hand...... :Lol:
But to do that, I want to use a 9/16” end mill. I thought I had one of those, but it turns out, I don’t (or I can’t find it, which is essentially the same thing).The perennial hazard of cleaning out the garage... :shrug:
QuoteBut to do that, I want to use a 9/16” end mill. I thought I had one of those, but it turns out, I don’t (or I can’t find it, which is essentially the same thing).The perennial hazard of cleaning out the garage... :shrug:
What kind of lathe do you have Kim?
On my build some of the most finicky work was getting the crosshead/slippers/guides/yoke to work smoothly together. Your next parts on pages 98-100 need to be made very precisely.
Assuming that's mild steel, you needn't worry about quenching it. It doesn't have the carbon content to harden.
which quenching the mild steel its more a matter of distortion and worst getting splashed of spat at by hot spots of water.Luckily, I didn't seem to have gotten much distortion. So that's good! :)
john
Looking good so far Kim. I was looking at the cross head castings on my Tich which look like they'll be "interesting"
Sent from my G3121 using Tapatalk
Okay, now I'm seeing where this sequence is going. Clever.
I read .995” 😁:facepalm:
As an aside, I wonder if anyone has ever bothered to track the number of times we put things together only to take 'em apart again before we're "finished"Certainly not me. I can't count that high. :headscratch:
Did you have the piston rings on when you did the assembly? With cast iron rings I needed to make the tool to compress them while inserting.Hi Kvom,
That assembly is a lot easier with the cylinder off the frame.Good point!
Interesting question, Charlie!QuoteAs an aside, I wonder if anyone has ever bothered to track the number of times we put things together only to take 'em apart again before we're "finished"Certainly not me. I can't count that high. :headscratch:
You'll need to attach "feet" to the yokes as well. Make these oversize so that you can adjust their thickness to get the attached guide bars horizontal and parallel. Once the bars are good the crosshead fit can be adjusted by the slippers.
Very nice boat cradle. I mean tie plate!Hey, it does look like that, doesn't it? :Lol:
Question/thoughts for you re slot roughing finish- when doing the cut, were your table gibs locked? On my old mill, if I don't lock the gib on the axis that doesn't need to move, I get a slot that looks like I cut it with a Cockshutt 3 bottom plow rather than a mill. Also, if the endmill is held in a collet I get much better results than if I do a light cut with it held in the drill chuck. (yes, sometimes I cheat and do a small slot cut with a endmill in the drill chuck - even though it is a no no and I should know better ::) )
Your final slot cut looks just fine anyway. :cheers:
As for slotting, I use carbide endmills, and for small slots like these chain drilling doesn't make sense.Interesting... why is that? My thinking was that chain drilling reduced the side load on the end mill - which seems especially important for those tiny end mills. Seems like no chain drilling would lead to much higher sustained side loads. which is how you break them. Or at least, that's how I break them! :embarassed:
Using a drill chuck for plunging an endmill seems perfectly OK.Sure. But I thought it wasn't best practice to use end mills in a drill chuck (at least, if you have a choice - I know some small mill/drills ONLY have a drill chuck). They are held more firmly and with better concentricity in a collet vs drill chuck. If I'm wrong here, that would be good to know!
When I made the yokes I seem to remember milling out of one plate each.Not sure what you mean here? I milled out one plate for each side, I just did them together. But that might not be what you mean?
Got a nice fresh bottle of white popcorn (no kernel shells to get stuck between the teeth)
:popcorn:
Thanks CNR & Chris!Popped in microwave in a silicone popper dish, either dry then with butter added, or popped in a little peanut oil which adds flavor. Tasty!Got a nice fresh bottle of white popcorn (no kernel shells to get stuck between the teeth)
:popcorn:
No hulls! That's the best! :) With butter? (I hope? ;D )
Kim
I missed where you drilled the bar supports.
That precise measurement of the spacing if matched by the matching spacing on the cylinders should mean that the bars go on parallel. Once the yokes and tie plate are assembled to the frame will come the most exciting part since the check on driver quartering. Smooth travel of the cross heads is the goal.Fingers crossed... (we need a "fingers crossed" emoji! Something like this: (https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/FingersCrossed.JPG))
all yoking aside they look great! :Lol:
Nice motion Kim!That was my first thought too. Or a little steel-colored paint on the brass edge... Not that I have ever done that. Today, anyway!
My first thought on the shim would be to make it from steel and bond it place with some JB clamped up tight. Make it a little oversized so it could be dressed back down to the original surfaces.
Silver solder would be ok but there is always some risk involved with something going wrong on your finished part. :wallbang:
Dave
I would leave the shim alone. Also powder coat the yokes and tie as onr piece if possible to avoid changing dimensions among the parts. Don't coat the tie bars. Don't coat anything until you have the valve gear made and all assembled. There is a bracket still to be attached to the yokes and the clearance in the slots to be verified.Good idea about powder coating the whole yoke together, Kvom. And yes, I'll be waiting to coat it for a while yet.
I spent a lot more than one day getting things to move smoothly, so you did very well.Well, I've spent the last two days continuing to refine things. If you notice, I didn't have the O-ring retainers in the cylinders around the piston rod yet (what would normally be called the packing glands?). It took some work to get those in and smoothly, plus a lot of other little work. I think I'm almost ready to move on to the valve gear!
Why not soft solder a shim on? Make it over size and file it to match after.Hi kim. I think soft solder would be my approach as well. But it's your choice and I would expect JBW to work fine too. Anyway, it's looking really good! Just a small hurdle to clear.
Thanks Craig!
Wow! THAT is a big project! My engine is tiny by comparison. You should share a picture of it with us! I'd love to see it.
Thanks for looking in Craig,
Kim
I'd counsel against 12L14 as it's very prone to rust, and you won't be painting these parts.Kvom,
Nice work, how did you do the stress relief, did you just heat up and let them cool or did you have to hold them at a certain temp for a while?My unscientific method was to bring them up to a cherry red for about 5 min, then let them cool down slowly. Since these were fairly small pieces with very small crosssection, I only did about 5 min. But for larger, thicker pieces I hold them at temp longer. I'm sure a more controlled high temp and a slower cool-down would be better. Clearly, it's not as controlled as a heat-treating oven would be. But I have found it to help significantly, regardless. That's how I learned to do this step - actually, people on this forum told me I needed to; that's why some of my parts came out looking like a potato chip! And after doing this stress relief it really improved!
Remember you want a nice sliding fit in the expansion links, so when machining the slot start a bit small and sneak up on the width.
Oh man - they are easy to put into the assembly the wrong way (or at least trying to do so) ....Yeah, I've thought about that too! But in person, if you look closely, you can see which side is wider than the other, so you can tell which direction to put them in (I hope! ;D)
It's not easy to see what way the sides curve with so little amount of metal left ....
:popcorn: :popcorn: :popcorn:Thanks Chris! :)
Great looking little parts, Kim! I don't know how you can do such nice work and still remember to document the details as you go, but I'm glad you manage to. :ThumbsUp:
It also comes in handy on later projects when you need to make the same kind of part, and can't remember how you did it before!
What's the grooving tool you are using for the 'four little pivot pins'?
Then, with a 1/16” mill, carved out the steam ports. The inlet ports are just a hair over 1/16” (0.078” which just happens to be 2mm) and the exhaust port is 0.394” wide (10mm wide). Seems Kozo didn’t bother to change this part of his design from metric. Worked fine for me. But it’s interesting nevertheless!
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/088b-Cylinders-5-DSC_8479.jpg)
I can’t figure out the steam port depth. Do you recall how you figured that out?
The book’s narrative says refer to figure 14-7 for that, but it’s not shown
The right end view in Figure 14-3 could be read to imply the floor of the steam ports intersect a plane created with the peak of the cylinder major diameter ( the 1 7/16” dimension).
Seems pretty important to not be specified explicitly though!! Perhaps I’m missing something obvious?!?
What worked for you?
Thanks in advance.
I'm always a bit in awe of Walshaerts and some of the other brilliant engineers back in the day who could work out linkages like that with little more than pencil, paper and a slide rule.Yes, it is amazing the engineering that was done on these beasts! No computers, no spreadsheets, no CAD - they just did it by hand!
Can you help yourself from Not trying it on air ;DUnfortunately, I can't do that until I get eccentric rods on both sides. But I'm working on that and should have it up soon! (That's soon in MY universe, not in Chris's universe where he has dozens of shop elves working and has those 30 hour days :Lol:)
Per
I didn't use the setting jig as the same heights can be set with gauge blocks. Your result looks excellent.That's a good point! I'm sure there are many ways to do this - I didn't think about using gauge blocks, but you're right, I essentially made a single-use gauge block! :)
Great progress on this build - and I really admire your long haul staying power! It is a mighty project and fascinating to look back from time to time at prior work done.Thanks! Sometimes I wonder if I will have the staying power to complete it. But I just keep chugging along. And as long as I am having fun, I'll keep plugging away, one part at a time!
I did notice in the first video that the rear suspension was bouncing up and down. Was it loose because the second video didn’t?
Looks good Kim!Yeah, and I'm kinda excited about it! :)
A whole new learning curve heading your way.
Dave
I am surprised you didn’t install them yourself being as close to the box they are.Yeah, I gave it serious consideration. But my main concerns were that you needed a permit to put in a new circuit. And while I could do it, and I could research the current codes and such, I decided it was easier to let someone who knows this stuff and who is licensed and insured do the work. That way when I go to sell the house (not any time soon, I hope!) I'm not liable if it burns down on someone else, or anything like that! :)
Don
But I got tired of that. So I tried my hand at welding a cube. It came out mostly cubic, but the welds are pretty ugly!
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/3-DSC_9741.JPG)
I've still got a ways to go before I'm to the level of incompetence I'm hoping for :embarassed:
Kim
Hello Kim,
I am glad I have found this build thread, I have jumped in here to say hello, then I will go back to page 37 :Lol:
Thanks for your efforts with this build, I am going to have ago at the Pennsylvania Switcher, finally got hold of this book plus a couple of others,(hard to find in Aus) with Kozos amazing book and your build log, beautiful workmanship, I might have half a chance, :)
Probably won't start 6 months, I am still working and, in the TTR mode at the moment. I am a Fitter & Machinist from way back, when we used to build things in Aus, (completed my apprenticeship at International Harvesters ) Geelong Operations,
Only just getting back into hobby machining after 25years lay-off
Cheers Gary
Pic of welder?I've got a Dr appt this morning, so I'll try to grab one this afternoon and post it.
I have seen worse welds than that on things that get sold for money. It's not easy, is it? However I think there is big improvement between your first welds and your cube, so I'd say your doing fine.Thanks, Stuart! Nice of you to say so :) I'm re-watching the videos now that I've had some hands-on. It's surprising how much more it means once you've played with the equipment and seen and heard how it reacts to various things. It is much more helpful when you have some real-world experience (regardless of how minimal) to relate things to.
The welder tips and tricks series of videos that Dave Otto posted are tremendously helpful, I think they are the best welding tuition videos on youtube. Keep at it, I think you're doing fine. Being able to join metal together opens up a whole new world of fixturing and fabrication possibilities. Nice work. :ThumbsUp: :ThumbsUp: :ThumbsUp:
Do you wear body armor when shooting wire at 300 inches per second? :LittleDevil:
Gene
I guess my subtlety was a bit too obscure. How about 300 inches per minute? :LittleDevil:Oh! You are so right! What's a little unit confusion amongst friends! :embarassed:
Gene
Kim you should have a manual on this welder page 36. The wire tension could be causing the wire to slip without proper tension on it. These welders should be close to what the dial says. If not consult with the factory rep. There should be a calibration adjustment for the IPS setting. It’s just finding which one it is when you open the cover. There should be trimmers on the control board a rep can help with that if you find the tension is ok.
Regards Don
Kim
20 years ago I remember going through, pretty much, the same procedure for the link blocks on my locomotive. The Stephenson link valve gear on my loco has been refurbished once since then, and I remember thinking that I might need to make new link blocks… and dreading it. :embarassed:
Fortunately, all I needed to replace were a few swing arms that had dogged out.
Great work you’re doing. I admire anyone with the stamina to build a live steam locomotive.
Today I added holes for the cylinder drain cocks.
This wasn’t too hard; drill a #29 hole 3/16” deep:
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/088f-Cylinders-1-DSC_8559.jpg)
Drill a hole through to the edge of the cylinder. I did this at a 15o angle to get it closer to the cylinder head.
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/088f-Cylinders-2-DSC_8561.jpg)
....
...
Are you posting any updates on your build, Matthew? I'd love to see where you are and what you've got done.
Kim
Glad to see you are back in the shop :) :) :) Your loco build has got plenty of small pieces to keep you busy :ThumbsUp: :ThumbsUp: :wine1:That it does!
Great work with the rotary table Kim! nicely done. :ThumbsUp: :ThumbsUp: :ThumbsUp: :popcorn: :popcorn: :popcorn::popcornsmall:
Here's some more popcorn for Crueby ---> :popcorn: :popcorn: :popcorn: :popcorn: :popcorn: :popcorn: :popcorn:
I'm pretty sure the c'sinks on the bottom are to make sure the stand clears any "paint radii" or "thread dimple" at the threaded holes where it goes, aren't they? :naughty: :Lol:Yes, that's EXACTLY why there are countersinks on the bottom! :ROFL:
How Fun Flies when you have Time....How Times Fun when you have Flies.... Ćh ... Řh ... Ĺhh ....
Crazy to think that it has been Four Years already - hope that you enjoy making and dokumenting just as much as we do following your progress Kim :praise2: :cheers: Hm ... where where the :popcorn:
Per
ps thank you very much for sharing - and I'm aware that there a more here that this applies to, too :Love:
"Times Fun When You're Eating Flies"How Fun Flies when you have Time....How Times Fun when you have Flies.... Ćh ... Řh ... Ĺhh ....
Kermit The Frog
And in Japan, they might say "Tempus Fujitsu". :thinking: :Lol:Huh... you lost me on that one - I looked that up in google translate and it says "Attachments False". I know... it's not funny when you have to explain the joke... :embarrassed:
Try looking up Tempus Fugit...And in Japan, they might say "Tempus Fujitsu". :thinking: :Lol:Huh... you lost me on that one - I looked that up in google translate and it says "Attachments False". I know... it's not funny when you have to explain the joke... :embarrassed:
Kim
Sorry for any confusion Kim, as Crueby pointed out, it was a a play on the latin tag "tempus fugit" meaning time flies. :cheers:No problem! I figured it was some humor that went past me. Now I'm all caught up!
Hi Kim !
One more question : how did you have the patience and motivation to do this project ??
I am a fan of steam locomotives one day I will make one for myself and your thread built definitely is a book that I need to refer to and learn from.
Well, I've done lots of smaller projects and it really feels no different. I just consider each piece as its own mini-project. So I finish a project or two every week! And each of the mini-projects fit together to form a larger project!
Anyway, that perspective works for me :) :ThumbsUp:
Kim
Anyway, that’s OK as long as I remember to tap the mating hole 3-56 rather than the 3-48 it shows on the plan!If you haven't already done so, I would make a pencil note on the plan RIGHT NOW! :ThumbsUp:
Thanks Ron! That's a good idea. Fortunately, that's already behind me and I DID remember to use the 3-56 tap!QuoteAnyway, that’s OK as long as I remember to tap the mating hole 3-56 rather than the 3-48 it shows on the plan!If you haven't already done so, I would make a pencil note on the plan RIGHT NOW! :ThumbsUp:
Well, today is a big anniversary for me - it's 12 weeks exactly from the date of my surgery. So as of today, I'm able to start (slowly - so says my wife) expanding my range of motion and my weight restrictions and such. I'm excited about that! But it will likely be a while till I'm back to pressing 250 lbs! (Not that I could even do that before the surgery! :Lol:)
I'm certainly feeling very much back to normal now. I've really noticed feeling better overall and more energy over the last few weeks. So I think things are going great!
The ACME stuff's great! The coyote always had the best gadgets and merchandise from them.After my thumb tendonitis healed it was getting back to 12 ounce curls! Or 16 ounce for the bottled stuff... :DrinkPint:
Re bench pressing numbers before / after surgery - I still say "I'll be pressing 250 again soon" after my neck surgery but I don't mention that means 250 grams, not pounds. The power of the metric system! :Lol: :cheers:
My current recovery is the 4th day locked in a hotel room in Germany after a positive covid test. I've had time to catch up on this and other threads. No symptoms. Hoping to test out today or tomorrow.
Be aware that by reversing an angle block you subtract the angle instead of adding it.Good point, Kvom! I'm pretty sure I got them all in the intended direction. But that's good to remember!
You can also make good quality blocks stick together by squeezing the air between them out, just like gage blocks.Well, that may speak to the quality of my angle blocks. They're the best cheap imports money can buy! :Lol:
Long ago I drove a Sentinel steam wagon which had a steam foot brake (like an air brake system). The problem was that if it hadn't been used for a while the steam just condensed and you got no braking :facepalm:
And how many of those teensy e-clips went Ping across the room and behind a cabinet? :Lol:
Drain cocks look great Kim! :ThumbsUp: :ThumbsUp: :ThumbsUp: :popcorn: :popcorn: :popcorn:Oh, but we are all asking! :noidea:
A dirty trick for working with tiny e-clips - place a piece of transparent cling wrap over your hands and the work, until the clips are in place. That way if a clip makes a break for the outer universe it hits the underside of the cling wrap and drops back down. Much like a cell phone kicked by a donkey hitting the underside of a circus tent. (don't ask) :Lol:
how are you finding your new 2 inch belt finishing machine,??True enough! :)
Need to watch your finger tips with them little pieces :)
A dirty trick for working with tiny e-clips - place a piece of transparent cling wrap over your hands and the work, until the clips are in place. That way if a clip makes a break for the outer universe it hits the underside of the cling wrap and drops back down. Much like a cell phone kicked by a donkey hitting the underside of a circus tent. (don't ask) :Lol:
I like the little jig for rounding the piece on the sander, have to make that for mine next time!
What is the parting tool you are using? It seems to be wedge shaped or is that just the camera angle?
I'm following your build with a lot of interest because I want to start my 5 inch locomotive in the near future.
It also has 2 axles.
Is anyone else in the area planning to attend the Great Oregon Steam-up?I would if I could but I can't so I won't. Maybe it will work out next year.
QuoteIs anyone else in the area planning to attend the Great Oregon Steam-up?I would if I could but I can't so I won't. Maybe it will work out next year.
You may be detecting a trend re my puns / groaners ..... or a character defect of some sort. :Lol:Yes, definitely detecting a trend! :Jester:
Is it just the camera angle, or in the second to last picture are the arms on the valves moving to different angles , farther on the right hand ones, less on the left? If those crank arms have holes at different distance out from the pivot it would do that. Or if the connecting link is a little too long.
Lots of little details to get just right so the drains function correctly but they are most important :ThumbsUp: :ThumbsUp: :wine1:
On my larger model, I didn't bother with the manual cylinder cocks and installed ones that work automagically.
For the oiler, my pump has two outputs and the oil lines connect to the steam chest covers.That would make for a lot more piping work to distribute the oil, but it probably also makes for better oil distribution to the cylinders!
…. Plus, I can feel the air whizzing out of the drain cocks when they are open :) …
Wait till the boiler is under pressure and there is a slug of hot water in the cylinder; stand at the wrong place when you open the throttle, and you get ‘peed on’ with hot boiler water!
(Ask me how I know)
Thanks Dave, Chris, and Craig! :cheers:Wait till the boiler is under pressure and there is a slug of hot water in the cylinder; stand at the wrong place when you open the throttle, and you get ‘peed on’ with hot boiler water!
(Ask me how I know)
So, how do you know? >:D
Sounds painful!
Kim
Wait till the boiler is under pressure and there is a slug of hot water in the cylinder; stand at the wrong place when you open the throttle, and you get ‘peed on’ with hot boiler water!
(Ask me how I know)
So, how do you know? >:D
Sounds painful!
Kim
Especially so, when the locomotive is on the elevated track in the steaming bay, the drain cocks are at waist level, or head level if you happen to be bending over. :facepalm2:
Nothing quite makes your day like a squirt of boiler water in the ear.
Looks great, its almost a shame to paint it
Beautiful results. How does that oven differ from a standard toaster oven?
I bought a double wall oven from a guy doing a house renovation for $100, and use it for powder. Another $50 for a 220V cord and plug. I can do larger parts than in the toaster oven size. I keep the oven on a roller platform so I can move it out of the way easily when not in use.That's a great idea! If you have the space, at least. And it surely would allow you to do larger parts! I saw one guy on line that extended his oven using foil-covered foam insulation so that he could fit a larger part in the oven. Seemed to work OK for him...
400F works fine in my experience.Glad to hear that works! :)
Covering the rack with foil keeps it clean, but I haven't done that, so mine are multi-color as I also spray parts hanging.The problem I would have is that I depend on the rack for my grounding connection to the parts. Once something gets coated in paint, it doesn't conduct very well. So the foil helps keep the racks clean(ish).
Do you guys plug the holes when you powder coat? Or do you clean the plastic out of the holes and chase the threads after you've powder coated?
Don
Is the 3-48 screw used as just a pin to hold the gland together? I know Kozo loves O-rings
Dave
So looking at the Index again + the previous entry = You reached the finish Line :ThumbsUp: 8)
Somehow I think there are a few chapters missing in the Index you just shoved Us again :thinking:
None the Less - Bravo for reaching this Point on the Journey Kim :praise2: :praise2:
Per
Of course we are all waiting for Chapter 23, where the rubber meets the road. Or better stated, where the copper hits the forge.Yes! I'm quite excited about chapter 23 too! I also have a little trepidation about it. I've never made such a large, complex boiler before :o But I've had such good success following Kozo's excellent instructions that I'm sure I'll get through it. :-\
I used Kozo's instructions in Chapter 23 when I built my Raritan some years ago. Worked out well. The original instructions using Sil-Fos and a totally different heating schedule led to a disaster.
Gene
Hello Kim, when milling grooves I always try to drill out the material with a drill (always 0.1 to 0.2 mm smaller). This protects the cutter. Oil for milling also helps quite well. Continue good success. 👍Good advice, Michael!
Michael
One question though - what was that lever you pulled at the very end of the video? Brake?
Kim,
Do you get Live Steam magazine? The new issue has a very interesting article about building a copper boiler without using flanged plates. The author uses plain, flat plates. It is a good article backed up with real research. Worth a look before you get started.
I hadn't heard of the the use of nitrile balls as an alternative to SS ones before; good to know! :ThumbsUp:
Here's hoping that you get a chance soon to do the soldering, and the orange glow in the distance doesn't get any closer to your house!Thanks Chris!
I had an M4 tap just shatter like your end mill. I guess something must have gone wrong with the heat treatment :headscratch:Yeah, that was weird. It was brand new - I don't think I'd ever used it before (if so, not much). I was wondering if I'd dropped it or if it had gotten some hairline crack in it somehow. It was just weird. Like your shattering tap, Roger!
HSS Volkel taps.
Hello Kim, good work!
I'm curious about the inside of the pump. How is the oil pumped? There's a lot of variants. Also how it is driven. But we'll see.
Michael
A nice job there. Another method would be to hollow out a block of metal. This is what is done by AME on the larger oilers. Back when they were made by the former owners in FL the sides were made from individual sheets like you're doing, and it was very labor intensive. Milling from solid saves a lot of time.
Very nice shop elf apartment. I mean, pump housing! :popcorn: :popcorn: :popcorn:
Thank you, Chris! :cheers:Just Dumbus Luckus (latin for good planning? :Lol: ) that I happened to click on the page and reply just after you posted.
You're really on top of things today! ^-^
Kim
I like that!Thank you, Chris! :cheers:Just Dumbus Luckus (latin for good planning? :Lol: ) that I happened to click on the page and reply just after you posted.
You're really on top of things today! ^-^
Kim
I remember back in the 1980's a writer for Live Steam magazine, Chas. O C Darling, mentioned he hung a bar magnet from a string in his shop. This was used to test the attraction, or lack of it, on red hot bars of steel, for the same purpose of knowing when it was ready for quenching. It's an old and very useful technique. Mr Hiraoka knows all the tricks!
:ThumbsUp: :ThumbsUp: :ThumbsUp: :popcorn: :popcorn: :popcorn:
offset holes to the wrong side have never ever happened in my workshop. (more than 920 times, anyway) :Lol:
Nice recovery. Save the broken glass in case you ever want to make a diorama with the locomotive in the roundhouse. You can pose an apprentice figure and an irate foreman next to a little pile of the shards! :Lol:
Here they are, painted and re-assembled
That feature on the front face is probably a device to slow down any oil drips to retain them to the assembly as long as possible... that would be my story! :Lol:
If you can't easily fix it - feature it! :ThumbsUp: :ThumbsUp: :ThumbsUp: :popcorn: :popcorn: :popcorn:
It just has that extra beauty mark on the side face now… :embarassed:
That's it, Per! That's what it is! :ROFL:QuoteIt just has that extra beauty mark on the side face now… :embarassed:
... and me who thought that it was a recessed Quality Stamp .... ;)
Per
Hello Kim, at first I thought the hole was set completely wrong. But the hole is only drilled.Hmm.... good idea, Michael! I should have done that. I still could, but then I'd have to re-drill the oil hole. Not too big of a chore. I may have to consider this!
It wouldn't have been bad and you would have tapped both holes.
And the hole that is not needed is closed with a cap. So a combined eccentric for both installation options. Vertical or Horizontal.
But again a beautiful part that is finished.
Michael
Oil cup for that eccentric could be hard to access being between the frames.Good point there, Kvom. Yeah, those oil cups won't be easy to access for sure. It must be possible though... (he says optimistically)
:ROFL:Grategreat to hear!
Thanks Chris! :cheers:Ah, well, I'll keep trying! And watching along! :ThumbsUp: :ThumbsUp:
I'm sorry to be the bearer of bad news, but CNR beat you to the pun(ch) a few posts back. If you look in post 1921 you'll see that he used the grate/great pun a few days ago.
But a good pun is good even the second time around, right? :ROFL:
Kim
That day I was up early and ate some weeties, too :Lol:No wonder they were EXTRA strong puns that day!
Groovy! ;DYeah, I've used it before, but it was HIGH time to use it again. This is, however, the first time I trammed in the Y direction. Silly me...
Bout time you got out the tramming tool. Got mine last year, I think, and have used it several times, they work great. Tools to adjust tools to make better parts with, oh boy!
Yoo betcha Kim! It does look grate! Bar ring any clinker issues, that thing should burn coal hot, which will be cool! :ThumbsUp: :ThumbsUp: :ThumbsUp: :popcorn: :popcorn: :popcorn: :cheers:
the grate looks nice will you be game to lite a fire on it ?That's a good question! I kinda THINK I'll fire it up at least once and get it to run on steam... but then again, I have yet to fire up my steam tractor. It's run on air many times, but I have yet to steam it up - and I completed that four years ago! :-X
i programmed a old cnc machine a vertical spindle were the head could move as well as the quill but it was .25mm out over 65mm on y axis
but there was nowhere to adjust but it still did a lot of good work.it was a heavy machine but it would have taken some major work to alter.
john
Hi Kim
The ash pan turned out great!
Yes, sheet metal will always stretch through the bend, this is something that people who work with sheet metal deal with every day. On a press brake with known material and tooling it is somewhat easier to predict, but there is always variables that will change things.
The easiest thing you can do is take a strip of the sheet that you are planning to use, say 1"X 4". Measure the length and then bend it 90 degrees, approximately in the center across the short direction. Use the same method that you will use on your actual part. Measure the outside length of each leg and add them together. Then subtract the original length value from the sum of the two folded legs. This will give you your outside bend deduction. this amount needs to be subtracted from your flat pattern for each bend. Bends less than 90 will take some trial and error to get the proper bend deduction. We have sheet metal software at work that does a pretty good job of this, once you have a good value for the 90 degree bend.
Hopefully this helps some.
Dave
That's a beautiful latch / unlatch action Kim! Careful you don't get LDEGv* though. :Lol: :ThumbsUp: :ThumbsUp: :ThumbsUp: :popcorn: :popcorn: :popcorn:
*LDEGv= latch detent euphoria, Goldilocks variant , commonly caused by machine builders operating mechanisms that are just right ..... :Lol: (very common when building Kozo's designs) :cheers:
Outstanding work Kim! Your soldering skills are excellent you should have no problem with the boiler fab and soldering……….I ……….likeeeeeee…. :Love:
:drinking-41:
Don
If you want to put off the boiler for a bit longer, you can always work on the cab, sand dome, smoke box, and headlamp.Those need to be good fits around the boiler...
Lovely mention of our dear Kim from the youtuber "Blondiehacks". Well deserved....congrats Kim!
Oh Boy! Boiler time! :popcorn: :popcorn:Oh yeah! :ThumbsUp: :cartwheel:
As is often the case when hardwood is required, I used maple from my old stock of wood that I originally purchased to make a cradle for our first child. I never quite got to that project, however. And my first child is now grown and on her own and probably wouldn’t fit in the cradle even if I made it.I'd say that's well seasoned by now.
Yes, it's been 'seasoning' for some time. However, the ends of some of the boards got soaked a few years back when my water heater broke. But it seems to work well enough regardless! :)QuoteAs is often the case when hardwood is required, I used maple from my old stock of wood that I originally purchased to make a cradle for our first child. I never quite got to that project, however. And my first child is now grown and on her own and probably wouldn’t fit in the cradle even if I made it.I'd say that's well seasoned by now.
:ThumbsUp: :ThumbsUp: :ThumbsUp: :popcorn: :popcorn: :popcorn:
:cheers: to boiler building!
Have you got the book "How to Soften Copper" by A.Neal? :Lol: (sorry for worst pun in a long time)
If you continue to have problems with the wood splitting, see if you can pick up some white oak - it has a much more interlocking grain, a lot harder to split. I was lucky to have some left over from a boat keel/stem project. Red oak has a linear/tubular grain, white oak would be better.Good point on the oak. I'm hoping the well-aged maple will be fine, but I guess we'll see tomorrow. :)
Fun fact with red oak - if you have a straight grain length of it, dip one end in water, and blow in the other end, bubbles will come out in the water! The tubular grain is a lot like a bundle of straws. Yes, this really works!
Or, if you are more comfy with metalwork, you could always make the formers out of some big chunks of steel! (Just kidding - doubt it would work that well, it would tend to squish the copper with the hammering rather than giving/rebounding like the wood does).
I usually make the former for the forward flange (around the boiler tube) wider to avoid the breakage problem. There is no limit other than the amount of wood used. The side former needs to be the correct width, of course, but the interior shape is mostly unimportant. I have never had any problem with the side former, but it could be made sturdier by creating a smaller cutout.Thanks Gene,
Gene
I've got a couple of options on mallets. I have a rubber mallet, a wood mallet, a plastic mallet, and a brass hammer. Then we get to the ball peen hammer and your basic claw hammer, plus a small sledgehammer. I'm sure something in there will work! :hammerbash:
Alec recommends using a large 16oz flat-faced planishing hammer. This is one of those hammers with a large flat steel face that is used for shaping sheet metals. Looking at the pictures in the book I suspect he is using a couple of the hammers that you find in the cheap car body repair hammer sets as I also spotted a cross-face hammer being used for the internal curves.
When years ago :old: I made my two boilers I followed Alec's recommendations and it worked for me :DrinkPint:
Jo
P.S. Alec does say do not use a wooden hammer as the copper will quickly destroy it :paranoia:
Though for some places a ball peen hammer may be used (Kozo says this is OK in his book, as long as you don't dent the copper).A lot of it can certainly be done with a ball peen hammer. The key is to remember to use lots and lots of light and closely spaced taps, no heavy wanging away.
the boiler has officially been started!And a good start it is too. :ThumbsUp: :popcorn:
Coming along great, Kim! I'm with you on marking out as an error/sanity check. I do the same all the time, for the same reasons.Nice to know I'm not the only one who finds this helpful!
Following along, I like your edits to the book! :happyreader:Thanks Chris! I'm sure Kozo's methods would have been great. And I thought about doing it on the lathe just for the experience, but setting up the holding method using the faceplate and re-clocking in the piece for each of the bored holes just seemed like a lot of unnecessary effort. So much easier to just dial it in on the DRO, you know? ^-^
I'm sure Kozo's methods would have been great.
Good point, Per!QuoteI'm sure Kozo's methods would have been great.
I'm sure you're right - but then again - how many had a Home Mill with a DRO, when he wrote the book :thinking:
I like that a lot Kim! Im always amazed at how much work goes into a boiler, all that work and when it's time....it's 5 minutes with a torch and Ploop! it's soldered.....the soldering always seems so anticlimactic. there is so much work that goes into it to get there.Well, the soldering is still a big deal for me! I'm getting better at it, but I still worry :)
Dave
Hi Kim, you have had a lot going on, on the Loco project since I last commented. I have been watching all the while and now enjoying your journey into the boiler phase of the locomotive!Yeah, I just keep plugging away! Pretty soon it will start to look like a loco too!
Nice work indeed.
Dave
Thanks Dave and Dave! :cheers:I like that a lot Kim! Im always amazed at how much work goes into a boiler, all that work and when it's time....it's 5 minutes with a torch and Ploop! it's soldered.....the soldering always seems so anticlimactic. there is so much work that goes into it to get there.Well, the soldering is still a big deal for me! I'm getting better at it, but I still worry :)
Dave
But as you say, if you put the time in upfront to fixture the parts well, the soldering certainly goes much better with a LOT less drama! I've learned that from you all!Hi Kim, you have had a lot going on, on the Loco project since I last commented. I have been watching all the while and now enjoying your journey into the boiler phase of the locomotive!Yeah, I just keep plugging away! Pretty soon it will start to look like a loco too!
Nice work indeed.
Dave
Kim
Looking good Kim, but question: could that bracket been cut with a half lap instead of three pieces?Thanks Don!
Regards Don
I used the half-lap method.
As I recall it was not easy to get the desired fit to the inside edges of the front tube sheet.
There is no need for the ribs to be exactly straight. The three-part design allows moving the stub-end to get the correct fit.
Gene
Since the fit of the ribs is tough to get perfect all the way along its length and up the ends, I usually just use extra solder on those joints and let it flood the joint, no one but a very skinny shop elf will ever be able to get in there and see it when its done! :Lol: The important job for the ribs is to strengthen the flat plate, the only place its really important to have a tight seam on it with the solder is around the little screws holding the ribs for soldering, don't want to have a seep point there.I used the half-lap method.
As I recall it was not easy to get the desired fit to the inside edges of the front tube sheet.
There is no need for the ribs to be exactly straight. The three-part design allows moving the stub-end to get the correct fit.
Gene
I struggled to get a decent fit on the ends too. Luckily, these don't have to be a pressure-tight fit. If it doesn't seal fully behind the rib it's probably no big deal :)
Kim
Since the fit of the ribs is tough to get perfect all the way along its length and up the ends, I usually just use extra solder on those joints and let it flood the joint, no one but a very skinny shop elf will ever be able to get in there and see it when its done! :Lol: The important job for the ribs is to strengthen the flat plate, the only place its really important to have a tight seam on it with the solder is around the little screws holding the ribs for soldering, don't want to have a seep point there.I used the half-lap method.
As I recall it was not easy to get the desired fit to the inside edges of the front tube sheet.
There is no need for the ribs to be exactly straight. The three-part design allows moving the stub-end to get the correct fit.
Gene
I struggled to get a decent fit on the ends too. Luckily, these don't have to be a pressure-tight fit. If it doesn't seal fully behind the rib it's probably no big deal :)
Kim
Looks good Kim. A great start, very promising for a successful build.Thanks MJM!
MJM460
Which grade of silver solder are you using on these joints, medium, hard? Always good to start with the higher grade so you can use the lower on subsequent heats on nearby joints, so the first ones don't remelt.
I'm using easy grade. Kozo says in the book to use easy on all the joints and just do them in the right order so they don't get in each other's way (or something like that). I hope that's right because that's what I'm doing!
🟢 SOFT/EASY SPECIFICATIONS:
🔸 Solder WIRE: Silver Content of 65%
🟢 MEDIUM SPECIFICATIONS: -
🔸 Solder WIRE: Silver Content of 70%
🟢 HARD SPECIFICATIONS: -
🔸 Solder WIRE: Silver Content of 75%
Hi Kim,Thank you Doug!
I'm new to the forum (found it via Blondihacks) but have read everything you've posted so far! I've had the Kozo book for about 10 years but haven't made the plunge yet--you are certainly inspiring me! Excellent work!
Doug
So, only 35F difference between Easy and Medium, and 90F diff between medium and hard. I don't know that I can control the temperature of my soldering that carefully. If I were doing it in an oven or something, then yes. But with a torch? It doesn't seem that easy to do. But maybe that's just me. Do you find using different grades of solder helpful?
Kim
... if the OD is a little large or small it's possible to take that into account when you make the cylinder, a few taps on that will adjust it to match.
Hi Kim,
Nice work!
Just done a catch-up read, great progress, at this rate steam up in the new year….. errr snow allowing…. isn’t far off!
Cheers Kerrin
Good point! I was picturing skiming off a few thou from the diameter of this part if needed, but adjusting the cylinder is also a good possibility. Maybe an easier one!
Thanks in advance for any thoughts. I do appreciate it.
Good thought on driving the wood disk through the boiler barrel. I'd forgotten about that.
Hi Kim, I've had a break from working on my A3 after I retired in April. Then I found one of my wheel crank radii was in error by 0,08mm which took me ages to correct as my wheels are made fro DMLS managing steel blanks. I then quartered the front axle wrongly which created more binding. I think it is all solved now now I am about to start the cylinders. Because I work in metric I create a solid model and new drawings from Kozo's designs. I think he made a mistake and has made the T-Piece holes in the cylinder 1/64" higher than he intended to. See if you agree by comparing height dimensions on page 84 with those on page 85. By the way, I really appreciate all your posts. Best Regards, Mark
The copper bends like butter after it's annealed!
The copper bends like butter after it's annealed!
Keep this in mind as you continue to add parts to the boiler and it becomes heavier. It is very easy to have a slight bump during handling and create a ding. :hammerbash:
DAMHIK :'(
Gene
Kim, you bent a beautiful ring there!Thanks Michael! :cheers:
Have you ever worked as a goldsmith?
Michael 😉
Work hardening is it.The copper bends like butter after it's annealed!
Keep this in mind as you continue to add parts to the boiler and it becomes heavier. It is very easy to have a slight bump during handling and create a ding. :hammerbash:
DAMHIK :'(
Gene
Ouch! Sounds like a story that would make me cry! :'(
I've been wondering about that... is there any way to harden copper? Other than work hardening? Or is it once it's annealed always annealed?
Kim
I look forward to hearing if any of you feel having this stay misplaced will actually cause me any issue.
Hi Kim,Thanks Chris!
Nice progress! I've noticed the same thing about the black flux, it does seem more forgiving, and have added more like that a couple of times, worked as long as the first round didn't dry it out too much and form soot. My experience with the Hard solder is that it works as well as the other grades, it just doesn't get as watery thin and flow as far as the other ones. Best thing I finally learned about boiler soldering was not to be stingy on the amount of solder wire laid on the joints. Early on I had a lot of starved joints that needed redoing, I wasn't realizing that a long seam with 1/4" or so of overlap has a lot of surface area and needs more solder than I thought. The last boiler I did was after that lesson finally sunk in, and it passed the static test with very little rework.
You are doing great, and thinking of all the right things!
:popcorn: :popcorn:
Nice work Kim! Almost makes me tempted to get my minnie TE boiler kit out of hibernation that I picked up cheap on ebay years ago
I look forward to hearing if any of you feel having this stay misplaced will actually cause me any issue.
I would expect zero issues. In fact it may actually help. It can be more difficult to get stays sealed leak-free when they are close to a corner like shown in the design.
Gene
OK, I've got another silver soldering question for you all.Yes, you can use equal or lower grade (more towards easy) on an existing joint, no problems there. It could be an issue to use hard on a joint already done with easy, since you would be overheating the easy, melting it completely, and maybe having parts move. Using an 'easier' solder the second time around is kind of the reason for having it, you can get the new solder to melt and flow without loosening the first solder, as long as you dont overheat it too much. When using a torch on large copper parts, the copper wicks away heat so darn fast that you dont usuallyhave a large area of solder melting at once - unless you are really overdoing it or using way too big a nozzle, in which case you might overheat so much that you melt the copper! That is more of a risk on small parts than large ones - the bright glow on the parts would be a big clue. I like to do the soldering out of sunlight, in dimmer light you can see the color of the metal a lot easier - normally you will get some glow about the time the solder melts.
Can you mix hard-grade and soft-grade solder on the same joint?
Here's my situation. I'm looking at the front tube sheet and thinking "Boy, I'd like to see a little more solder there under those ribs..." My plan is to do another round of solder on them. However, if I'm using hard solder for these earlier joints, should I do this second round on the front tube sheet using hard-grade solder? Or stick with the easy-grade silver solder that I used the first time around?
It might be no big deal either way, but I was just thinking now that I've made that break to using the different grades of solder, should I do it here? Or not?
Any thoughts?
Kim
It’s still a bit snug but I plan to get the rest of it with files.
Thank you Steve!
Good advice, Gene. I surely do want to be careful about taking off too much. Kozo is a proponent of the 2 thou gap. I have heard that silver solder can fill up to a 6 thou gap. Not sure if that's true or not, but I've heard it never the less :)
Kim
Thank you Steve!
Good advice, Gene. I surely do want to be careful about taking off too much. Kozo is a proponent of the 2 thou gap. I have heard that silver solder can fill up to a 6 thou gap. Not sure if that's true or not, but I've heard it never the less :)
Kim
A little rub with some wet and dry on the tube would be more than adequate if it's too tight kim. I concur with Kozo... Though I've filled bigger than .006" gap on some boiler projects in the past. Much depends on the silver solder you're using.
Rivet vs screws...sometimes it's difficult to back or head a rivet or find space for a hammer blow, and conversely sometimes it's difficult to get a wrench or other turning tool on bolts or screws. Sometimes parts want to spring apart before fastening, so rivets are hard to start, and screws and nuts will hold them together while tightening. Other times rivets are less expensive (if you make them yourself) and can be made of the material to be joined, like copper, where that metal screw is difficult or impossible to find. Screws and nuts (if not soldered) are easier to remove. Sometimes one kind of tool and fastener is simply closer to hand than another, on the bench. Sometimes you run out of rivets or run out of screws of a size. Rivets or screws each might look more appropriate in some places. Finally making and setting rivets is fun (where not a particular need or spec for screws), but maybe someone else doesn't enjoy them at all. If of the same material and same diameter a rivet with no threads has greater shear strength, and often it is the fastener of choice in sheet materials for that reason.Thanks Steve,
Looks great, Kim! And, it looks like the PNW is back to our normal warm-ish, rainy, winter weather. :)Yes, it's getting there. It finally broke above freezing around noon today and our sheet of ice is starting to melt away. I'm hoping that it will all be clear for Santa to be able to land his sleigh tonight! ;D
Lucky you weren't in the middle of a critical or heavy cut on the lathe or mill when the power went off! (Had that happen once when running the big-a$$ lathe in my youth - instant broken carbide and a nasty "step" to remove later).Yikes! Yeah, I thought about that too - that would have really freaked me out if I was operating the lathe or mill. What made it worse is that the power flickered on and off for 10-20 seconds then - that would have made for some ugly and potentially dangerous machining! Luckily, all I got was a bit of strobe lighting for a few seconds.
Hi Kim, and a Happy New Year to you and yours,
The stairs and railing turned out very nice!
Did you provide a frame hole for a 2nd blowdown valve? Having one on each side is useful.
Your subject is not to my taste, being a Brit (Sorry, but I find American locomotives err - ugly :o) but, without doubt, it is beautifully executed. I question the American design choices sometimes and the railings are a case in point. I don't think they are 'nice'. I think they are weird. Don't misunderstand me here, I understand that you have followed the drawing but why are the railing uprights not, well, upright? On this side of the Atlantic, they would have been vertical as opposed to perpendicular to the surface. The same is true in household stairs, is it not? I firmly believe, had that tender been designed by the likes of Fowler or Stannier, the steps would have been wide enough to mount the railings to and the vertical parts would have been vertical. As they are, they just look strange.Ian, Yes, I did find it a bit odd that some of the stair uprights are straight up and down, and some at an angle. But as you say, I'm following the plans. Over time, I've grown accustomed to it.
Thank you Per, Kvom, Jeff, Dave, Chris, and Ian! :cheers:Did you provide a frame hole for a 2nd blowdown valve? Having one on each side is useful.
No, only one blowdown valve for this build. I'm sticking with the plans that Kozo did. I don't have enough knowledge to second guess his design, even if it would be a good idea. And I believe there is something in the way on the other side (an air reservoir - which is really a battery holder for the headlight). So I'd have to move that somewhere - or put the second blowdown valve in a different location? Regardless, I'm sticking with the one.Your subject is not to my taste, being a Brit (Sorry, but I find American locomotives err - ugly :o) but, without doubt, it is beautifully executed. I question the American design choices sometimes and the railings are a case in point. I don't think they are 'nice'. I think they are weird. Don't misunderstand me here, I understand that you have followed the drawing but why are the railing uprights not, well, upright? On this side of the Atlantic, they would have been vertical as opposed to perpendicular to the surface. The same is true in household stairs, is it not? I firmly believe, had that tender been designed by the likes of Fowler or Stannier, the steps would have been wide enough to mount the railings to and the vertical parts would have been vertical. As they are, they just look strange.Ian, Yes, I did find it a bit odd that some of the stair uprights are straight up and down, and some at an angle. But as you say, I'm following the plans. Over time, I've grown accustomed to it.
And I am very glad you have found a locomotive to build that is more to your tastes! Isn't it wonderful that there are so many different styles to choose from? :)
I'm also glad you're getting some value from my build log. I will say that I'm a fairly green machinist andI've madeI make plenty of mistakes. But by sharing them here I have gotten great help from many kind and generous people, willing to share their knowledge and talent with me to help me get better. And to me, that's what it's all about - learning while doing something fun :)
I would encourage you to share your build with us here too. Nobody here expects anyone to be perfect. We're all learning at whatever level we're at. You learn more if you share. It does make a big difference I can tell you.
Whatever you decide, I wish you the best of luck with your LBSC build! Sounds like a wonderful project!
Kim
Awesome results Kim. Question though are you placing pieces if solder around the solder areas? You would get better penetration that way then apply more if needed. With the flux applied place pierces in it. On round objects make a ring of solder. On long rails place pieces along the rail. Just my two cents worth. Great job so far we always see improvement's in your work. :Love:Great advice, Don. Yes, I'm placing solder right at the joints just as you describe, which is my usual practice. And then feeding in some additional solder as needed. And for these joints, I almost always need more solder. I don't quite know why. I'm doing my usual practice of making little punch marks on the bottom of the part to add a little room for the solder to flow. Well, I didn't do that for the bronze bushings because I had no place to put a punch mark. The ledge around the bushing is very thin - like 1/32" or so. Not enough room for me to get a punch mark in there.
:cheers:
Don
Needing more solder is always the case when soldering but you can minimize that by changing the diameter of your solder. Placing small diameter solder will be sucked up quiet fast by a larger diameter piece your soldering. So it pays to have different diameter solder handy. This will help mimimize having to resolder multiple times.Awesome results Kim. Question though are you placing pieces if solder around the solder areas? You would get better penetration that way then apply more if needed. With the flux applied place pierces in it. On round objects make a ring of solder. On long rails place pieces along the rail. Just my two cents worth. Great job so far we always see improvement's in your work. :Love:Great advice, Don. Yes, I'm placing solder right at the joints just as you describe, which is my usual practice. And then feeding in some additional solder as needed. And for these joints, I almost always need more solder. I don't quite know why.
:cheers:
Don
Kim
On the subject of solder penetration of rivets, I don't think that's possible, since properly they make a gas tight joint. I think the solder is only meant as a fillet, and an extra. I don't think making rivets looser to get solder flow would make sense structurally.Thanks Steve,
That makes a lot of sense and matches my experience here.
On mine I just tapped on the rivets enough to expand the head enough to hold, did not flatten/round over like I would for a normal rivet where its doing all the work.
Hi Kim,
I’ve been catching up on your excellent build log, which I always enjoy. I have a question. Why do you consider yourself to be a green machinist? … Many, many thanks for your contributions and I’m looking forward to the next installment of this excellent build.
Peter
I would have made them out of 1/4" bronze rod but I couldn’t source any. The smallest bronze rod I could find was 3/8”. So that’s what I used.
The 930-series bronzes are high-leaded and intended for bearing applications. Probably why they are not made in small sizes. No doubt those bronzes are still fine for stays in a Kozo design.Thanks Gene!
I typically use 510 or 544 phosphor bronze for stays. 544 has some lead, 510 just a trace of lead, but they are very strong and solder well. A bit more difficult to machine nicely, but quite doable. McMaster has 544 in sizes down to 3/16".
Gene
I’m glad I took the time to adjust those sides a bit yesterday or I’d have been really sad at this point!
"Y"? because Kozo likes you! :Lol: (remembering the Mickey Mouse club)Who's the leader of the club that's made for you and me?
Great save Kim, on a really difficult piece to mill! :ThumbsUp: :ThumbsUp: :ThumbsUp:Side question for you Steve, what sort of setup do you have to sharpen your end mills?
I had a far less important piece of 1/2" steel edge grab today. Didn't hurt the steel much but broke two flutes of my only carbide mill. So I can just imagine your reaction when the copper grabbed. :Mad: In my case, mad at myself.
For me it had the benefit of going back to HSS mills and sharpening up a bunch of them today, and it was smooth cutting after that.
Great progress on the boiler! :popcorn: :popcorn:
Lots of progress!Yes! I thought about that later - I've got a lot of nice copper shavings laying about. boring those holes made some excellent savings that I could use!
Istead of brass shim on the little gap, you could also hammer a scrap bit of cooper or copper wire flat and use that.
Soldering plain round stays in a flat plate can be difficult at times. One trick I have used is to place a single wrap of small copper wire around the stay on the hidden side. (Or even the more visible side if the extra bump can be accepted.) Something like 26 or 28 gauge solid wire (bare, not tinned) usually meant for electronics.
The extra surface area and small spaces seems to suck the solder in.
Gene
:ThumbsUp: :ThumbsUp: :ThumbsUp: :popcorn: :popcorn: :popcorn::ROFL:
Purty chips in the tin! Careful it doesn't get mixed in with anyone's pipe tobacco - they'd have an awful job gettin that lit! :Lol:
I have 5 Sievert burners, from pin-point to weed-burner, and I use them all at one time or another. Couple of handles, several tubes, regulator, etc. I think I got most of this stuff from Best Materials (mentioned above). Got these over some time, and I do not know the total cost. I am sure it would be lot more today.Great summary! +1 on everything Gene said - the big mass of copper really sucks away the heat fast! I also got my Sievert parts at Best Materials, not many places carried them in this country at the time, not sure if there are other sources here now. I think there were several sources in England that would ship here who had them, like Reeves, don't know who carries what now.
For a nearly complete boiler the weed-burner (2944) is very useful although the next size down (2943) can work if everything is nicely packed in insulating fire bricks.
The weed-burner is scary, and an ordinary 20 pound propane tank gets pretty cold in a hurry. :o
It is quite important to get the temperature up to the solder melting range in a few minutes. Otherwise the flux gets old, even the black flux. That rapid heating takes a large burner.
Gene
Ok, here's the exact Sievert parts that I have via links from the retailer I bought it.Those are good prices!
https://www.zoro.com/sievert-torch-kit-tr-kit-propane-fuel-ds2944/i/G0312965/ (https://www.zoro.com/sievert-torch-kit-tr-kit-propane-fuel-ds2944/i/G0312965/)
https://www.zoro.com/sievert-standard-burner-88000-btu-2942-02/i/G0503601/ (https://www.zoro.com/sievert-standard-burner-88000-btu-2942-02/i/G0503601/)
With this kit, Best Materials says the burner is not removable but that's completely wrong, it's the neck tube that's permanently affixed to the body. The burner heads just screw on and off the neck. This was confusing for me.
The 2944 head comes with the kit and I bought the 2942 head separately. I'll post pictures later.
Great idea using the wood to make a fixture, Kim. Is that oil- or water-hardening Maple? ;)
Did you have to re-anneal during the rolling process?Well, I didn't re-anneal. It seemed to keep taking the bend pretty well. It isn't a real tight bend, so I wasn't sure if I'd need to or not, but it didn't seem to need it. When I bent the ring for the fire door, that piece also didn't require any additional annealing steps and it was a much tighter circle, so I guess that kinda makes sense.
Thanks Steve and Chris!If it didn't crack, it was okay! Sounds right, the constant bend is a lot more gentle than a right angle bend like I was thinking of. Having the slip roll sure made it a lot easier than bending it around a pipe by hand (I know that one for sure!)Did you have to re-anneal during the rolling process?Well, I didn't re-anneal. It seemed to keep taking the bend pretty well. It isn't a real tight bend, so I wasn't sure if I'd need to or not, but it didn't seem to need it. When I bent the ring for the fire door, that piece also didn't require any additional annealing steps and it was a much tighter circle, so I guess that kinda makes sense.
Hopefully, that was OK :)
Kim
Well, over the weekend my new (somewhat less expensive) Sievert torch arrived! I ordered a few various-sized tips for it but those won’t arrive for a couple of days. The one this setup came with is the big kahuna! But I can use this to anneal the copper sheet.
HiGood info!
Sorry for being a little late on the Sievert torch discussion but my experience may help.
At one of the model engineering shows we spoke to the guys at the Sievert stand and bought a torch kit from them. Back home keen to try my new torch I connected it to the propane bottle and lit it. To be honest I was a little disappointed, it didn't seem to be much better. It was a few weeks later when the need to do some silver soldering arose that I changed the regulator for the one supplied with the Sievert kit. An amazing difference. It was clearly hotter than the cheapo torch I had been using. I haven't gone into the technicalities but I imagine the regulator and torch are a balanced pair and I think the regulator allows a greater flow of gas.
Cheers
Rich
As Chris said, the lever is on/off.
I've also been considering what kind of little tube I have that I could feed solder though
And I don't believe you can purchase the silver solder with cadmium in the US either.
It is readily available in most places, although perhaps not California. (I have not used it for many years.)McMaster_Carr stocks the cadmium-based silver solder, but it's expensive and it's probable best just to use Safety-Silv. There's a reason they banned that solder in most countries.
Ah, OK. Thanks for the info, Gene. :)And I don't believe you can purchase the silver solder with cadmium in the US either.
It is readily available in most places, although perhaps not California. (I have not used it for many years.)
Gene
Excellent point and once you reach temp move the flame in and out not to over heat. This will give you time to touch up spots needed. If you have the proper flux it tells you when it the correct temperature. It will look wet and your solder will flow.
I always flux the job and rest the solder alongside the join, then heat from the other side. This way, there is no guesswork regarding whether you've reached temperature or not. However, if you prefer to use the dab-it-in method, cut a snippit of solder and rest it near to the join. When it starts to glisten, you are only a few degrees from melting-point so you can bang the heat up for ten seconds, remove the flame and dab the solder. It should flash and give a good joint. What you don't want is the flame on the solder, this will usually end up in a dry joint.
Your worst enemy is slow-cooking, this kills the flux before you add the solder. I've always found it pays to get close to melting point, then really shove the heat in and get the soldering done as quick as you can. The flux will keep going for a few minutes but if it starts to go like treacle, then it's too late. The flux is dead and you need to stop, cool, pickle, then start again.
that's looking the business Kim! Nice solder job! It's always satisfying when a solder job goes well.Thanks Dave!
Dave
Great job on the clamps, I think you'll like how they work.
I like the tube straightening method and wooden jig a lot. Thanks for showing those! :popcorn: :popcorn: :cheers:Thank you Steve! Yeah, I was surprised at how well it actually worked!
It could also be because I keep it in my cold garage. I know temperature affects how much citric acid you can dissolve into the solution.
There may be some reduction going on in the pickle of oxidized copper slag/flakes, and/or precipitating out of the pickle.This makes sense. Undoubtedly, there's SOME reduction going on. Some copper is transferring into the pickle. But It can't be much. There's no discernable decrease in the size of the copper, according to the metrology equipment I have available to me. But the copper precipitating out of the pickle and forming a coating where the flux was, that might make sense. That's kinda where it seems to be happening - where there was a lot of flux.
Could the extra heat held in from the bricks have resulted in more scaling? :shrug: :shrug:I'm thinking it isn't the heat - I think it's probably more from the baked-on flux residue. I'm thinking that I didn't really get the part clean enough after my earlier solder sessions. I was relying on mechanical removal of the flux because I wasn't willing to wait long enough for the pickle to do it's job (or possibly my pickle wasn't strong enough). Mechanical removal should work too, but I only did it in the areas that I was going to solder, not over the whole thing. So over multiple heating sessions, as the solder melts and runs around, the flux residue piles got thicker and deeper.
Copper definitely goes into solution in citric acid pickle but whether it comes from the clean copper or from the breakdown of copper oxide, I don't know. To see this in action, put some of your used pickle in a small tub and place a piece of galvanised steel into it. You will see tiny bubbles of hydrogen forming and, when they stop, your piece of galvanised steel will have had the zinc stripped off. However, the steel will be a nice, pink colour where the copper in the solution has been deposited onto the steel. It rubs off fairly easy, though.
Because I get a lot of offcuts of zinc-plated sheet steel from the skip of a local engineering firm, I keep spent pickle in another tub and use it for stripping the zinc off prior to painting. The copper in this solution speeds up the process ten-fold compared to clean, fresh pickle.
Regards, Steve
Those insulating fire bricks are very effective, but they are also very fragile. After heating a few times they are very likely to split or even crumble. I would like to switch to the sort of bricks mentioned by Steve (springcrocus), but I have not found them in the US. Probably not quite as thermally efficient, but much better than US "firebrick".
Gene
Kim, if the solution has had that much use, it's probably time to use it to make your shop elves some grog, and start a fresh batch! :Jester:Yeah, maybe I should. But probably let it go for a while more. It still seems to be working :embarrassed:
Actually, the reason the brass goes pink is because the surface atoms of zinc are leached out by the pickle and the copper in solution then re-plates the brass. Polish up the brass with a bit or wire wool and the copper comes off, leaving the clean brass underneath.Copper definitely goes into solution in citric acid pickle but whether it comes from the clean copper or from the breakdown of copper oxide, I don't know. To see this in action, put some of your used pickle in a small tub and place a piece of galvanised steel into it. You will see tiny bubbles of hydrogen forming and, when they stop, your piece of galvanised steel will have had the zinc stripped off. However, the steel will be a nice, pink colour where the copper in the solution has been deposited onto the steel. It rubs off fairly easy, though.
Because I get a lot of offcuts of zinc-plated sheet steel from the skip of a local engineering firm, I keep spent pickle in another tub and use it for stripping the zinc off prior to painting. The copper in this solution speeds up the process ten-fold compared to clean, fresh pickle.
Regards, Steve
Thanks Steve, this makes a lot of sense. I certainly do see that pink color on steel after it's been pickled. I thought it picked that up from the brass. But then, brass has some copper in it, doesn't it?
Kim
I wonder why it was designed the other way.
I wonder why it was designed the other way.
Keep in mind that the throttle assembly is in the dome. The steam delivery pipe cannot connect directly to the other holes shown. It needs to be ported into the throttle block. Lots of ways to do so, but leaving a flat face on the top of the dome base was the design choice.
Gene
But hey, who needs fingerprints, right? :embarassed:
After welding for 10 years or so I finally got in the habit of picking up any hot metal or bricks I was working with only with forge tongs or water pump pliers / channelocks. If you only ever use the tongs or pliers it's much less likely you will get burnt and you may not need gloves as much. Just food for thought from a fellow fingerprint-compromised metal worker. :Lol:Only took 10 years to learn... :Jester:
What can I say? "quality skills take time to develop"? or "ideas take a while to get through my skull, only 1 1/4" thick" :Lol: :cheers:After welding for 10 years or so I finally got in the habit of picking up any hot metal or bricks I was working with only with forge tongs or water pump pliers / channelocks. If you only ever use the tongs or pliers it's much less likely you will get burnt and you may not need gloves as much. Just food for thought from a fellow fingerprint-compromised metal worker. :Lol:Only took 10 years to learn... :Jester:
Who needs fingerprints anyway, Kim?
I once was doing some hardfacing with an oxy/acetylene torch at work. This is not a very mind engaging task. While getting the surface up to red heat, we would hold the rod nearby to get it pre-heated also. In the middle of this I got an itch on the back of my leg. Absent mindedly reached back with the rod to scratch it. The itch did go away, but ...
Very neat and tidy. :ThumbsUp: :ThumbsUp: :popcorn: :popcorn:I'm glad it looks that way! I can tell you it feels much more "trial and error" to me. But I'm getting there, never the less! :embarassed:
Regards, Steve
Thanks Chris, Jeff, Steve (vtSteam), and Steve (springcrocus)! :cheers:But trial and error with a lot of learning. And new tools. All of which will be very useful when you start in on the next Kozo book!Very neat and tidy. :ThumbsUp: :ThumbsUp: :popcorn: :popcorn:I'm glad it looks that way! I can tell you it feels much more "trial and error" to me. But I'm getting there, never the less! :embarassed:
Regards, Steve
Kim
Thanks Chris, Jeff, Steve (vtSteam), and Steve (springcrocus)! :cheers:But trial and error with a lot of learning. And new tools. All of which will be very useful when you start in on the next Kozo book!Very neat and tidy. :ThumbsUp: :ThumbsUp: :popcorn: :popcorn:I'm glad it looks that way! I can tell you it feels much more "trial and error" to me. But I'm getting there, never the less! :embarassed:
Regards, Steve
Kim
Locomotive building as fine art. :ThumbsUp:
(https://i.postimg.cc/hG8DtyX6/Panorama.jpg)
Locomotive building as fine art. :ThumbsUp:I thought that was a picture of me as I was trying to silver solder my boiler! :lolb:
(https://i.postimg.cc/hG8DtyX6/Panorama.jpg)
It should be clear why I made the comment some time back that the backhead needs to be carefully shaped to avoid depressions at the transition from straight edges to curved edges. It is easy to screw up, and it makes the wrapper fitting a lot more difficult.
Your soldering skills are hot! :Lol:Thanks Chris! I'm getting a little more confident in my ability to work with the Sievert, that's for sure! ;D
:popcorn: :popcorn: :popcorn:
...are you keeping an eye on hours spent making the boiler??
A Question, does the repeated pickling do anything to the copper or bronze? If you pulled a bone head move and left in for say a week would it hurt anything? Bob
Kim, if you haven't yet soldered this, may I suggest that you replace your brass screws with bronze ones? If any of those screws are on or below the waterline, then you are risking them breaking down through de-zincification at some point in the future.Steve, Thanks for the suggestion! I'm sure you're correct, that bronze would be the best here. Interestingly, Kozo specifically states to use 'brass screws' in his book here. So I'm sure hundreds of these boilers have been made using brass screws here. And hopefully, most of them have worked successfully.
Other than that, coming on a treat. :ThumbsUp:
Regards, Steve
Thanks for posting this, I'm learning a tremendous amount about silver soldering. A Question, does the repeated pickling do anything to the copper or bronze? If you pulled a bone head move and left in for say a week would it hurt anything? Bob
OK, one more follow-up on the brass vs bronze screw dilemma...
So, I just ordered some 3/16" diameter 544 bronze from McMaster-Carr for me to make some small screws from...
Kim
I assume this design uses lots of stay bolts around the firebox like his other designs do. On the New Shay they were threaded on one end with a threaded washer-shaped piece that went on the end. Is this one the same setup? Probably a lot that can be done making up the batches of those while waiting...
OK, one more follow-up on the brass vs bronze screw dilemma...
So, I just ordered some 3/16" diameter 544 bronze from McMaster-Carr for me to make some small screws from...
Kim
I made quite a lot of my screws from 1/4" diameter copper rod, recovered from old consumer units (fuse boards). The screws don't need structural strength, just the ability to hold things together until soldered. After that, they are redundant so copper is ideal. Copper rivets can be threaded, too, and a slot cut in the head.
Regards, Steve
That's a lot of complicated construction and you think IC engines might be difficult. Following along, learning and enjoying :) :) :)
Excellent work on the stay bolts! Maybe your shop elves are getting more helpful and made the extra one for you? Keep feeding them cookies as bribes... :Lol:
Nice progress Kim!Thanks, Dave! :cheers:
Kind of unusual weather for the Portland area?
Dave
I want to be there when you are assembling the firebox, and see the look on your face when you try and figure out where that extra stay bolt was supposed to be installed! :Jester:
I'm waiting for the warmer weather too, to get out and do some soldering!Don't you know it! :ThumbsUp:
:popcorn: :popcorn:
I have trouble with anything digital - including cameras, cell phones, and computers - and the steam locomotive pictures might be an 'expect 'em IF you see 'em' kind of thing.
On the areas where things didn't flow 100% did you add any extra flux during the heat? It sometimes livens up the flow again, if you add a bit. :cheers:
One thing that you find is that every new project is another learning one and you will get even better and better. But to say the experts don’t have to do it more then once is just no so. Yes you gain with experience but you will still have times it just don’t go as plan. You’re doing excellent don’t under rate yourself. We all get that pit in the stomach that it may not go right I don’t care how experienced you are.I know you're right Don. But it's nice to hear other people say it! ;D
Nice progress Kim, cant wait to see it in steam!Thank you Sam! It'll probably be a few years yet before that happens! :)
You're really moving right along, Kim! :ThumbsUp: :ThumbsUp: :popcorn: :popcorn: :cheers:Thanks Steve!
I wouldn't heat magnets like that Kim, -- they will lose magnetism above a certain temp, and some of the rare earth types can burn and release fumes you don't want to inhale.
I had been struggling with myself about what to do about the fact that I’d used easy-grade silver solder on the firebox ribs.
I am sure you have read the modern "words and music" from Kozo. He states in several books and articles that he uses only one grade of silver solder. I believe he typically used EZ-FLO 45, which is essentally banned today due to its cadmium content.Yes, I've read what Kozo says. I originally started with that line of thought, but then decided to try the multiple grades of solder. Figured if it buys me any margin at all, that's a good thing! :)
Personally, I use only Harris Safety-Silv 56 for everything. I am not sure what this would be called in the jeweler's easy-medium-hard terminology.
Of course you should do what you feel is most comfortable. Sorry if I came across as saying you were doing something wrong. :-[Thanks for your concern! But not to worry. I didn't take it that way, only as your thoughts on it. And it gave me comfort that it likely won't make any difference :) And I'm sorry if my reply came off as a little sharp or abrupt. It wasn't intended that way. Only to reflect my current experience, which I'm sure will change over time as I get more! :)
Gene
I'd suggest just carrying on, as long as everything is soldered and the firehole ring and stays are engaged as they should be the displacement should not matter. I very much doubt if there would be any difference in firing from the displacement. Just my $0.02 worth. :cheers:Agreed. And the foundation ring is best made to fit measured openings rather than drawing specs in any case, so many other parts stackijng up tolerances!
Forgot to mention - you will likely have to adjust the width of the rear piece of the foundation ring to account for the displacement. :ThumbsUp:
And I will be able to adjust the positions much better before final assembly.
After the boiler is done, you can go into making copper jigsaw puzzles!Actually, I've done quite a bit of that, though, not in copper. I've made lots of wooden jigsaw puzzles! Fun to do, but it looses its luster after doing several dozen puzzles... I don't know how people do that for a living (cut jigsaw puzzles, that is - and yes, some people do!)
Looking great! When do the holes for the stay bolts get drilled, before or after soldering the firebox in place?Kozo has you drill them AFTER you solder the firebox together. So, after I get the foundation ring completed, I'll:
Looking Good, Kim. Next up... The funky one.Yup, the funky one. This is the price I pay for my stupidity. (Or lack of experience as I call it when I'm feeling more emotionally stable :Lol:)
Todd
in that area when you heat it the silver solder should run in and it will all become one piece if you run enough solder in.Agreed, John! I believe that is what will happen! :)
john
Got it! So any drilling chips from the stay bolts can be dumped out the front before the front tube sheet goes in.Looking great! When do the holes for the stay bolts get drilled, before or after soldering the firebox in place?Kozo has you drill them AFTER you solder the firebox together. So, after I get the foundation ring completed, I'll:
1) Solder the foundation ring pieces to the outside of the firebox & throat sheet, and to the backhead (with the backhead still detached)
2) Assemble the firebox and tubes, and backhead into the boiler shell & firebox sheet, and solder it all to the inside of the foundation ring.
3) Solder the throat sheet and backhead stays
4) Drill for the side stay bolts and solder them into place - outside first, then inside.
5) solder the front tube sheet into place
And there you have it, all done!
So close, and yet, so far...
Kim
Got it! So any drilling chips from the stay bolts can be dumped out the front before the front tube sheet goes in.Yeah, I was worrying about that too! I was thinking I'd have a lot of little copper shavings in the boiler, but then remembered that the front won't be buttoned up yet! That Kozo - it's like he thought about this or something, eh?
You might have an undiscovered talent for fitting teeth in gaps for making dentures! :Lol:
Looking forward, Kim, to your around-the-corner completion, holding a finished boiler in your hands!I'm going to be holding it VERY carefully! It's getting heavy and I keep worrying that I'm going to drop it. I dropped the outside firebox sheet once and that was bad enough. If I dropped the finished boiler we'd have a very crooked Pennsy coming down the track cause I'm not sure there's much you can do to recover from that misstep! :o
CAD, Cardboard Assisted Design, is a most important skill to have :) :wine1:Good one!
:lolb:CAD, Cardboard Assisted Design, is a most important skill to have :) :wine1:Good one!
I'm guessing that you will be able to patch these little areas up and move forward?Most definitely. It's just the minor irritation of having to do another round of soldering before I can move on to the next step. But I'll get there! :)
Dave
Does the pickle bath get it clean enough that you can just ad flux, solder and go at it again or do you have to get in there and mechanical clean the joint first? BobHi Bob,
Be careful pulling the boiler out to check, don't drop it!!No joke! I am worrying about that! :o
I think I can understand why Blondihacks decided to start with the boiler ::)
:ThumbsUp: :ThumbsUp: :ThumbsUp: :popcorn: :popcorn: :popcorn:Thats why I sent Tosser to you! :lolb: Guess you haven't found the Elf nest in your shop yet... :paranoia:
Me too! (but no elves of my own here).
Ow! one of Chris's elves just beaned me with an Elfensteiner can!
Wow! You're getting dangerously close to a hydro test.
Todd
While not necessary as a safety inspection, a hydrostatic test will show any pinhole leaks.
Does kozo show shields for the other joints on the inside as well?
Now that you have a fresh propane tank, you may want to revisit your regulator setting too. You may have opened it too much thinking it was the issue, when it was the tank being low?Oh! Very good point! I'll have to back off the regulator for sure! That could cause problems! :o :Mad:
Were you able to get the chips from drilling through the inner walls of the firebox out of the inside of the boiler, or will they just have to stay there?Yes, I was able to dump the chips out the front of the boiler since the front tube sheet isn't in place yet.
Yes, like you saw, the flame size decreases, less heat produced. I had same thing once, ran out in the middle of a session, learned to heft the tank before starting to make sure it was not getting low. You can look up the weight of the empty tanks online and weigh it to get a better idea of how much you have left. You'll never use all of whats in the tank.Now that you have a fresh propane tank, you may want to revisit your regulator setting too. You may have opened it too much thinking it was the issue, when it was the tank being low?Oh! Very good point! I'll have to back off the regulator for sure! That could cause problems! :o :Mad:
Thanks for mentioning that!
Chris, have you noticed the torch acting differently as the tank gets close to empty?
Kim
Looking good Kim,
You must e pleased, :)
Do you worry that you will muck some of the silver soldering that has already been completed, when soldering new components, like the stay bolts?
Thanks
Gary
There's a bizarre spot in front of the front right staybolt.
There's a bizarre spot in front of the front right staybolt.
This looks like a stray piece of debris from exploding metal used for the shields. I have seen similar things; sometimes even interfering with the solder by landing before the solder has melted..
New metal shields are OK, but the heavily burned used ones can eject flakes when reheated.
Gene
Providence bless thisThanks for the customize boiler blessing! I think it's helping already! ;Dshipboiler and all those who sail in her. :thinking: :Lol: :cheers:
(Or another happy blessing, for your hydro test! Good luck!)
Don't forget to cover the steam dome!Thanks Eric!
Lookin' good, Kim. Good luck with the test!Thanks Todd! :cheers:
Of course, a leak test makes perfect sense!
That reminds me of how I have leak tested water tight cylinders for my RC submarines, I hooked up a flexible plastic tube to one of the fittings , dunked the cylider under water, and just blew into the other end of the tube. Very quick check for obvious leaks without dangerous levels of pressure, even if some have called me a blowhard!Of course, a leak test makes perfect sense!
The pundits always warn, "Don't use air for a pressure test!!!!!!!". Of course they are correct, but a few PSI of air for a leak test is completely safe and can be quite informative.
Just add a few PSI of air and dunk the entire assembly into your pickle tank or some other large water container.
It is advised to minimize the number of reheats after the boiler is completed. Nothing gets better by itself, and sometimes things can loosen up. There are stresses that did not exist earlier.
Finding the maximum number of problem areas before going into one-by-one repair processes is good. Air bubbles can sometimes be easier to trace than slow water leaks during a hydrotest.
I do not expect you will find many problems because you very carefully examined everything as you went along. :cartwheel:
Gene
Thank you, Pete and Zephyrin! :cheers:Don't go to the soft solders unless there is no chance that you need to do any more hard soldering on those parts. The hard solder wont work over the soft. I remember doing one last pinhole fix on my firebox with soft solder after failing to fix it several times with hard solder. In my case I knew I'd only run on compressed air, never on coal, so I was not worried about the fire melting the soft solder. If you are going to coal fire, I wouldn't think soft solder would be good for anything near/in the firebox.
I appreciate the suggestions and comments.
I am currently using 'extra-easy' grade solder for the repairs, which is the lowest temp, lower silver content hard solder that I've seen. The lower silver-content solders I've seen are soft solders. But at some point, maybe I should move to that for patches?
Kim
Good point, Chris.Thank you, Pete and Zephyrin! :cheers:Don't go to the soft solders unless there is no chance that you need to do any more hard soldering on those parts. The hard solder wont work over the soft. I remember doing one last pinhole fix on my firebox with soft solder after failing to fix it several times with hard solder. In my case I knew I'd only run on compressed air, never on coal, so I was not worried about the fire melting the soft solder. If you are going to coal fire, I wouldn't think soft solder would be good for anything near/in the firebox.
I appreciate the suggestions and comments.
I am currently using 'extra-easy' grade solder for the repairs, which is the lowest temp, lower silver content hard solder that I've seen. The lower silver-content solders I've seen are soft solders. But at some point, maybe I should move to that for patches?
Kim
Hello Kim, I have a question about soldering with silver solder.Hi Michael, I never rely on the old solder to flow into cracks or leaks. It seems to take more heat to get old solder to reflow than it does to get unused solder to flow. Which is a good thing for this rework. I have seen old solder reflow though, but I tend not to like it when it does. It means I got things too hot.
If you now re-solder the leaking spots, do you only heat the existing solder or do you add small pieces of silver solder to the seam beforehand?
Do you need to pickle before testing again?I don't know that you NEED to pickle before re-testing, but you certainly have to let it cool down. The other thing is, if you don't pickle it, there's a lot of flux crust and residue that could hide leaks, or make it difficult to find them. And, since I need to clean it up before I would do anything else anyway, I just pickle it and get it clean before I test.
The results of today’s test showed that yesterday’s leak patches were successful! This is great! I was actually very worried about the staybolt inside the firebox. But it seemed to work!
After an extensive submerged low-pressure test, I came up with five tiny leaks.
The largest (though actually quite small) was along the right side throat sheet. It emitted a continuous stream of teeny-tiny little bubbles. I tried to get a picture of it cause I thought it was so cool. If you look in the center of the photo you can see a vertical line that’s a little lighter than the surrounding area. That’s the stream of bubbles going up to the surface. And the similarly colored line going down and to the left of the top of that line are the bubbles floating along the surface before dissipating. Kinda looks like an upside-down L or something maybe? Anyway, I thought it was cool.
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/204h-HydrostaticTesting-1-DSC_3343.jpg)
Here’s a better look of where that spot is, out of the water.
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/204h-HydrostaticTesting-2-DSC_3349.jpg)
I looked carefully for more bubbles popping on the surface and found a leak around the bell stud:
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/204h-HydrostaticTesting-3-DSC_3347.jpg)
After those two, I had to look really hard, but I did find a few more pinhole leaks around the backhead. These were a much slower stream of bubbles, but if you looked carefully you could see it. Here’s one, on the right side:
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/204h-HydrostaticTesting-4-DSC_3352.jpg)
And two more on the left side. There’s a whole series of little pinhole-like dots along there, so I’m going to fill that whole area.
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/204h-HydrostaticTesting-5-DSC_3354.jpg)
After prep, flux, and solder, I moved it to the hearth. (I put flux on all areas to be patched, but don’t place solder on that area till the boiler is oriented for that leak). I started with the back head. This was the most precarious of the setups so I wanted to prep it while the boiler was cold.
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/204h-HydrostaticTesting-6-DSC_3360.jpg)
Today, I opted to try the 50mm burner. That’s the biggest size I have. I’d kind of avoided it before because I worried that it was too indiscriminate with the flame it threw out. And it rather is. But all of these patches were on the outside and fairly easily accessible, so I decided to give it a try, and it worked a treat! It followed the motto of heat it up fast, get it done and get the flame away. I really like how it worked – MUCH faster than using the 32mm burner for sure.
So, after flashing the solder around the backhead, reapplying, and quickly flashing again (my 2x standard for this boiler), I re-oriented the boiler on its side so I could easily get to the throat sheet and did the patch on that. It went very quickly (so quickly, I forgot to take a picture).
Then I did one more re-orientation to put the bell stud on top, added solder, and flashed it quickly. This picture is before applying the heat, though you can see the boiler is still so hot it dried out and puffed up the flux immediately when it was applied :)
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/204h-HydrostaticTesting-7-DSC_3362.jpg)
With all the detected leak areas patched, I covered up the boiler with more bricks and rock wool to let it cool slowly.
Which, as usual for these days, is where it is right now.
I’m feeling much more optimistic about things today. The leaks I found are getting really small and the silver soldering went so much better than yesterday. Thank you for all the input and suggestions. It has really helped!
Kim
You may have reached the point where it makes sense to try to apply full test pressure. The remaining leaks appear to be quite small and would not be expected to cause any structural issues.Yeah, probably about time, isn't it? I've just been using this low pressure testing because it's much easier to do and to clean up from. But yeah, tomorrow may be the day when I actually fill the boiler with water and do an official pressure test...
The boiler will definitely "move" when pressurized. Some moves may be positive and others not so positive. But in either case the boiler will be much closer to its working configuration.
In use, those tiny leaks tend to heal up by themselves as they get jammed with crud. Of course it is nice to start with a perfect leak-free boiler.
Gene
I hope that all those other tools and things in the background are farther away than they look in the picture so they dont get melted!Well, I believe they are far enough away. Haven't been a problem yet. And yes, I do think they are farther away in reality than they look in the pictures! :o
Once while working on silver soldering out in the driveway in the summer a neighbor came strolling up to see what I was doing, right into the flames path! :ShakeHead: Had to wave them off to the side, where their eyes got real big when they saw the flame from the torch! :paranoia: With the bright sun where they were and me in the shade they hadn't seen it, just heard the roar from the torch.That sounds kinda scary! Good to have neighbors who notice what's going on around the neighborhood though. That can be really helpful in keeping packages on your porch and things like that! ;D
(You're up early! :) )Thanks, but that was actually bedtime for me! I've been pulling the boiler out of the pickle just before I go up to brush my teeth and go to bed!
I got the Sawzall (Dewalt) with the variable speed so I'm ready to cut the other seven tender wheels!Great! That looks like a real beast! Sounds like you're ready to go now. Looking forward to your tender wheel update! :ThumbsUp: :D
And you're up to real-time now - watching me as I painstakingly work through my boiler issues... I'll be out of this soon, I'm sure! (he says with blind optimism :embarassed:)
And...I'm up to Page 182 on your writing. Interesting - and I'll be sure to print it out to follow.
-Jim
Kim, you might be able to use one of the link-type Vee belts without having to take the head apart.Hmm.... interesting thought. How do you get one that will fit? This one seems to be 17/32" wide at the fat part and somewhat less at the skinny part of the V. And 31" long on the outside.
https://www.fennerdrives.com/product-lines/hpc-v-belts/ (https://www.fennerdrives.com/product-lines/hpc-v-belts/)
Hi Kim
The belt shouldn't be too bad of a job, a better photo of the belt housing would be helpful. I have had mine apart many times over the years. Although it is a Bridgeport clone yours may be similar.
I keep pulling for you on the leaks and one of these days we will get to see a positive pressure test. I'm sure that your persistence will pay off.
Hey that fire box door looks a lot like the lid on the water tank of my Pacific engine. :)
Dave
Good idea to take a detour from the boiler and make a few other parts and assy's. You had me there in the photos showing the drawing of the fire door then turning a piece of aluminum....thought you were making the first self melting fire door until I read the mandrel caption! :Lol:
Before you shell out the cash for an adjustable length belt you might want to check what its' minimum recommended radius is. It's been years since I used one, but I remember them as less flexible than a standard belt. Probably due to their construction which uses multiple overlapping links. They were nice when the belt stretched though, just took a link or two out.Thanks! Definitely a good thing to check on!
Could it could be leaking into the steam tube from your gasket and blanking plug? Maybe just need to tighten that blanking plate up? I think its unlikely to be in the tube itself.That's kind of what I'm thinking (hoping?). I have tried tightening it down, but there's only so much I can do. I have had trouble there all along with the low-pressure air test too. Sometimes I would get little bubbles out of the steam pipe (very slowly, just like this) and sometimes I wouldn't see a thing there. That's one of the things that leads me to believe that when I get a good seal there (using the Loctite gasket-free stuff) that I should be in better shape. But even if not, I'm probably going to just deal with it. It's a very slow leak, and it's leaking out where I'll normally want some steam to come out anyway. So in my thinking, it shouldn't really affect things too much.
The bad news is that I seem to have a little leak somewhere in the steam tube. That could be coming from a poor sealing job in the steam dome base, but I don’t know. It is a very slow leak, just a drip every little bit.
My thinking exactly! But it's nice to hear people with actual experience say it! ;DThe bad news is that I seem to have a little leak somewhere in the steam tube. That could be coming from a poor sealing job in the steam dome base, but I don’t know. It is a very slow leak, just a drip every little bit.
Unless you are really lucky the throttle will leak more than that.
Does not look like a problem. :cartwheel:
Gene
I'd certainly rather be Mr. Good E. Nuff than Mr. Bug R. Dupp........ :Lol:Yeah, Mr. Bug R. Dupp visited frequently during the soldering of the boiler! Nice that he took the day off! :Lol:
BTW - what wrench under the locomotive? :Lol::shrug: :naughty:
Congratulations Kim! A long ride well ridden!Yeah, a little too long, but I'm glad I made it to the destination!
Yes it has been quite a ride but you have shown great patients and "stick to it ness". It is great to see it holding pressure, nice work!Thanks Dave! Yes, it was pretty exciting to see it holding pressure so well. I'm pretty pleased ;D
And handle the boiler carefully, both hands! Don't want to damage anything after all that work.No Joke! I've still got my wire handle around the fire door to help give it a nice secure handhold!
Seems pretty common for the weep type leaks to heal up with a few pressure cycles. The squirtgun types are the really bad ones. I had to do the same thing with my hand pump, putting a shutoff valve after it. Once had to replace the gauge since it had an internal leak!I've heard about that - probably from your builds! So I was happy to see it panning out in my boiler too!
how does the smokebox attach to the boiler?There will be a couple of brackets that will get mounted to the inside of the smokebox and will screw into the two smokebox studs on the front of the boiler. Once I get the smokebox tube made I'll start working on all the fittings for it. Those brackets will be some of them.
When you are thinking of doing a shovel Kim, let me know. I've got an easy to make press tool design for them, to form 2 of them to a nice shovel shape in one op, in an arbour press or a big vise.That sounds pretty interesting, Jeff! :thinking:
I wonder if the little grooves they mill in the jig plate is to give the glue access to air all the way through across the part, so it will set up everywhere and not just at the edges of the part?
Have never seen that trick before. When you heat it up to release the part, do you have to beware of fumes? And how do you clean the glue residue off, or does it just burn off clean?Yeah, I'd be careful of the fumes for sure - do with plenty of ventilation, etc...
I wonder if the little grooves they mill in the jig plate is to give the glue access to air all the way through across the part, so it will set up everywhere and not just at the edges of the part? Have never seen that trick before. When you heat it up to release the part, do you have to beware of fumes? And how do you clean the glue residue off, or does it just burn off clean?
Nice work, Kim. I always find it somewhat refreshing to work with a different material for a bit after spending a lot of time on something else, like the all the copper and brass work you've been doing lately. :ThumbsUp: :ThumbsUp: :popcorn:Yeah, the 303 stainless was actually quite fun to work with. It machines quite well.
You remarked on costs, recently I was comparing prices to see which to get, and saw that the prices on the 303 stainless and brass were about the same, at least at the sizes I was looking at. Quite different than a couple of years ago.Yeah, I just checked. They're getting closer in price, but the stainless still seems to be cheaper than the brass (maybe only 20-25% less?). But they are both about 2x what they were 4 years ago!
Nice layout work! I like that height marking gauge, looks like it does a much better job than just using the rod out the back of the dial caliper. Where did you find that gizmo? I need to find something like that.I'm pretty sure I picked the height gauge up from Little Machine Shop many years ago. I don't use it a ton, but it really comes in handy from time to time. And I should probably use it more often than I do! :embarassed:
:popcorn: :popcorn:
Those step drills are the bomb for thin stock, and I bet even more so for thin copper!Yeah, it worked quite well! Probably work better if I got a better quality one. This one was part of a 3-pack from Harbor Freight. But it still worked. I may have to invest in a slightly better one someday!
So.... an internet race to the finish line? ;D;D
As good as the book is, it’s also misleading in terms of how much work some things are. Sometimes a single sentence in that book is a week of work. “Just make this fixture and then these twelve parts” and such. Build logs like this give a much better map of the road ahead.
In one of the later books Kozo says that he had two builders he knew make the model from the first draft and included changes they discovered, to reduce the errors. Some of the early ones needed lists of changes that readers discovered, I remember seeing forums where those were posted (don't remember where)
As good as the book is, it’s also misleading in terms of how much work some things are. Sometimes a single sentence in that book is a week of work. “Just make this fixture and then these twelve parts” and such. Build logs like this give a much better map of the road ahead.
There have been a few hints over the years that the plans and work shown in Live Steam Magazine and the books were not always the first attempts. Only the final versions made it into print. :Jester:
Gene
Well, I'm sure I've got a couple of years to go yet on the build. But I'm still making progress, which is about the best I can hope for! :embarassed:So.... an internet race to the finish line? ;D;D
Haha, I’m sure Kim will finish first. I’m all the way back at the start now, having run the middle leg first. :D
I have the advantage of seeing how Kim has done things too, which will make my build go smoother.Yes, one big advantage! You know at least ONE way not to do things now! :LittleDevil:
As good as the book is, it’s also misleading in terms of how much work some things are. Sometimes a single sentence in that book is a week of work. “Just make this fixture and then these twelve parts” and such.No joke! I find that frequently! He'll dedicate a section to making the hinge pin for the fire door, then the next section of about the same length says to make the smokebox and solder all the fixtures on! (OK, he goes into a little more detail than that, but not much!)
So, Quinn, are you planning on using the castings for the drivers and cylinders? Or are you going to make your own? I found them both to be quite fun projects, each in their own right. But I can see the drivers being much easier with the castings for sure. Or at least having a different set of issues.
So, Quinn, are you planning on using the castings for the drivers and cylinders? Or are you going to make your own? I found them both to be quite fun projects, each in their own right. But I can see the drivers being much easier with the castings for sure. Or at least having a different set of issues.
I was planning to buy castings for the drivers, but do everything else from bar stock. However, turns out there are a lot of viewers out there who have started the A3 but had to abandon it for various reasons, so I actually had some viewers send me parts. I have a fully machined set of drivers, and I think someone is sending me tender wheels as well. Even though it would be fun to machine them myself, I don’t mind a little help along the way and it’s nice that other peoples’ work won’t go to waste!
Just picked one up like it, arrived today (new tool!! :cartwheel: ) There have been a number of times on recent models where it would have been very useful, like measuring actual distances from crank to crosshead, front frames vs rear frames, etc.Nice layout work! I like that height marking gauge, looks like it does a much better job than just using the rod out the back of the dial caliper. Where did you find that gizmo? I need to find something like that.I'm pretty sure I picked the height gauge up from Little Machine Shop many years ago. I don't use it a ton, but it really comes in handy from time to time. And I should probably use it more often than I do! :embarassed:
:popcorn: :popcorn:
Kim
In one of the later books Kozo says that he had two builders he knew make the model from the first draft and included changes they discovered, to reduce the errors. Some of the early ones needed lists of changes that readers discovered, I remember seeing forums where those were posted (don't remember where)
In one of the later books Kozo says that he had two builders he knew make the model from the first draft and included changes they discovered, to reduce the errors. Some of the early ones needed lists of changes that readers discovered, I remember seeing forums where those were posted (don't remember where)
https://www.modelenginemaker.com/index.php/topic,11289.msg262685.html#msg262685 (https://www.modelenginemaker.com/index.php/topic,11289.msg262685.html#msg262685)
Gene
Looking really good! I've been wondering--how's the boiler testing going? Still making progress?
No joke! I've done that before where you do something then a few days later you think - Hey, I had the perfect tool for that, if only I'd remembered about it! :facepalm: Next time, I'll remember!Just picked one up like it, arrived today (new tool!! :cartwheel: ) There have been a number of times on recent models where it would have been very useful, like measuring actual distances from crank to crosshead, front frames vs rear frames, etc.Nice layout work! I like that height marking gauge, looks like it does a much better job than just using the rod out the back of the dial caliper. Where did you find that gizmo? I need to find something like that.I'm pretty sure I picked the height gauge up from Little Machine Shop many years ago. I don't use it a ton, but it really comes in handy from time to time. And I should probably use it more often than I do! :embarassed:
:popcorn: :popcorn:
Kim
Now, I just have to remember I have it the next time it will be useful! :wallbang: :Jester:
Looking really good! I've been wondering--how's the boiler testing going? Still making progress?Well, I declared victory over the boiler a little over a week ago. You can check post 2796 (https://www.modelenginemaker.com/index.php/topic,8552.msg266221.html#msg266221) if you want to see my post about it ;D It was quite the journey for me, but I came out of it a little smarter and with MUCH more experience than I went in, that's for sure!
Awesome progress, Kim!Thanks, Todd! :cheers:
I've started on my cylinder castings. Hope to post an update over the weekend.
Todd
The official explanation would be that you are preparing to run at high speed on superelevated curved track. The boiler needs to be tilted a bit to keep the crown sheet properly covered. :pinkelephant:
Gene
That family shot is great! Now admit it, you were rolling it back and forth while making chuff chuff sounds!Well, there may have been some chuffing going on :Lol:
I do have a question, it seems that the boiler is so far to the rear that there is no place for the engineer and fireman to stand? Is this typical of this type of locomotive? Just curious.
That looks great Kim!
I do have a question, it seems that the boiler is so far to the rear that there is no place for the engineer and fireman to stand? Is this typical of this type of locomotive? Just curious.
Dave
As I recall, Kozo had a riding car directly behind the tender with firing tools to match.Yes, he rode behind the tender. Sorry, Dave, our replies crossed in the either. :)
I've seen some full size locos where the engineer stood on the front of the tender as you describe - they did have a piece of thick floor plate that floated on a post between the tender and engine to keep them from falling through when going around bends (hey, where'd Fred go? :Jester: ) The fireman would be back in that cutout at least, the coal pile would come up to there, with a short vertical wall to keep the coal from all running out.
Great video Ade! Looking forward to seeing Kim's version of it!
I dont know about the A3, but normally they would stand in the engine, and the fireman would be able to walk back and forth over the plate. I'm sure there were exceptions, there were so many designs. As you mentioned, Kozo likely extended the boiler for max volume and to make it easier to reach the backhead from the seat.I've seen some full size locos where the engineer stood on the front of the tender as you describe - they did have a piece of thick floor plate that floated on a post between the tender and engine to keep them from falling through when going around bends (hey, where'd Fred go? :Jester: ) The fireman would be back in that cutout at least, the coal pile would come up to there, with a short vertical wall to keep the coal from all running out.
Great video Ade! Looking forward to seeing Kim's version of it!
Interesting... I didn't know that about the floating floor plate!
Do you know for a fact that they didn't stand in the cab in the engine, Chris? I considered that, but in the images, I found above, it looks like there is a bit more room in the cab in the prototype than in the model.
Kim
Guess like you said, Dave, for a switcher, they may not have spent a lot of time in the cab anyways - in and out hooking up cars and moving them about in the yard...Well, the engineer and fireman would have stayed with the loco; the brakemen, and in switching probably a conductor, would drop off to do the sorting, coupling/uncoupling, and possibly throwing switches too. But no, crew comfort was not a priority. This video from inside the cab of the ER&L Co "Falk", which I used to help operate and maintain, shows the coziness crews often "enjoyed" with their boiler. Luckily that boiler is pretty small, but it still gets hot!
In the introduction section of the book Kozo claims his version is faithful to the prototype with a couple of exceptions. The valve gear was changed from Stephenson to Walschaerts for visual interest, and the boiler was changed from a Belpaire-shouldered version to a simple round top for ease of fabrication.
Obviously there are many simplifications required by scaling, but the major dimensions should be close to correct.
Gene
Interestingly, the model doesn't seem to have the bridge plate. Was that an aftermarket feature? Or did locomotives come fully equipped with a bridge plate between the engine and tender?I think all locos with a tender would have needed and been delivered with a bridge plate from the mfgr, but they are often left off of models. The Falk doesn't have a tender, there is a rectangular tank at the rear for water, with maybe 18-24" of floor space in front of that reserved for the wood pile. A passenger in the cab generally sits on that wood pile, which is the only place to be "out of the way". This is all just behind the "door" opening visible in the video.
QuoteInterestingly, the model doesn't seem to have the bridge plate. Was that an aftermarket feature? Or did locomotives come fully equipped with a bridge plate between the engine and tender?I think all locos with a tender would have needed and been delivered with a bridge plate from the mfgr, but they are often left off of models. The Falk doesn't have a tender, there is a rectangular tank at the rear for water, with maybe 18-24" of floor space in front of that reserved for the wood pile. A passenger in the cab generally sits on that wood pile, which is the only place to be "out of the way". This is all just behind the "door" opening visible in the video.
Correction: The water tank actually forms a kind of shelf, on top of which the wood is piled. Without the wood there it would be like a bench seat. I'd forgotten that detail until I reviewed some photos. The end result is the same, though.
Hot water, but it can't be over 212F or it would be steam, right? The top part of the boiler will have steam in it though, and at 100psi the steam will be at 332F.Hi Kim,
If that chunk of 303 is really 4 inches across it means the circumference is close to one foot. For a reasonable surface speed using HSS tooling the RPM should be no more than about 30 to 40.
Rapid tool wear will happen if you are turning too fast. SS has relatively poor heat conductivity so the temperature can build up fast.
Gene
Wow, you got lucky that it didn't hit one of the jaws and kick out!So true!
Would it be possible to put a screw in that center hole and into the arbor?Unfortunately, no, since I have to face across the whole diameter.
For my work with 303, well for everything on the lathe, I use carbide inserts, they last a good long time at whatever speed. Grinding my own would be a lot cheaper, but my grinding skills are not that great!Yeah, I've considered getting some insert tooling. The only insert tooling I have for the lathe is the Warner grooving tool and a boring bar. And I've got HSS inserts for those. But no standard insert tools. May have to expand my tooling! I do most of my lathe work with the tangential tools. The have worked really well for almost anything I've thrown at them. I'm betting they'll do better if I treat them right and slow my speed down to something more reasonable for 303 & HSS!
Don't feel bad about the crooked front tube sheet. It's really difficult to get that straight, and I suspect mine is a little crooked as well. I'm planning to do the mounting brackets last so I can align them as needed, or perhaps make them larger and slotted for adjustment.Thanks Quinn, I don't feel bad, just a little stooopid that I didn't catch before soldering. if you know what I mean :embarrassed:
I am honestly surprised that Kozo doesn't emphasize in the book how crucial the alignment of those front mounting bosses is on the boiler. The entire front third of the locomotive hangs on them and getting them straight is really tough when silver soldering. Some room for human error in the attachment brackets definitely would have been a good idea. He's much more of a "make it perfect" than a "make it adjustable" kind of guy. :DVery true! I do try to make it perfect, but my perfect isn't always that 'perfect' :)
Regarding painting the boiler, I definitely would. You can see the throat sheet and lower firebox on the finished engine, so it would look odd unpainted. Look closely at the cover photo and you can see what I mean.Thanks! You are right about that. Hadn't thought about those lower parts exposed below the cab. So it's clear I need to paint. And probably not powder coat the boiler. So BBQ paint it will be! (for me at least)
Kim, I am at the tender stage of Pennsy A3 and wondering what soft solder/flux that is required? Can it be plumbing or electrical or does it need to be a general purpose that is different than these?Hi Jon,
Very impressive Don! Did you use normal turning tools to get it close, then finished with the graver, or did the graver do all the work from the cylinder?Thanks Chris, I Did the most work with the lathe tool first to get it close then finished shaping it with the graver..
Congratulations Kim. You're no longer unhinged!... :LittleDevil: :ThumbsUp: :cheers::ROFL:
So much detail even in the dummy hinges :ThumbsUp: :ThumbsUp: :wine1:Thanks Roger!
Those little bits take four times longer to make, but they all add up to make the model look more realistic.Boy, don't they though? ;D
:ThumbsUp: :ThumbsUp: :ThumbsUp: :popcorn: :popcorn: :popcorn:Yes, I'll definitely be making more than one! If I'm going through all those ops, might as well have a spare or two. Won't really take much longer! ;)
Good luck with clamps set 2! With tiny parts it often takes a couple of tries to get the method and order of ops dialed in. On this set, you should probably make at least 5 sets, 4 of them for the other Kozo locomotives I predict you will be making! :Lol: :naughty:
Nice results Kim and it’s not the time it takes to build, it’s the enjoyment you get seeing it unfold and rise right before your very eyes a real sense of accomplishment.We done bud…..Isn't that the truth! ;D
:cheers:
Don
Excellent!Thanks Chris! :cheers:
And tomorrow morning you will walk into the shop, and see that missing clamp sitting there in the middle of the floor, sparkling in the light... :shrug:Well, if I do, I'm liable to 'accidentally' kick it under the bench or something - just out of spite! :Lol:
If you are going to saw out the number, may want to pick one that doesn't need to be drilled for the opening like 4, 6,8,9,0 would need. Just a thought.
Maybe Kozo was a Prisoner fan? ;D
Learning a great bit watching this build. Thank you for posting so much detailThanks! :cheers:
LearningCould you please tell us what type of belt sander you have that has variable speed control?
Also what type of blade is the scroll saw using that cuts the thin brass?I'm using #2 blades from Vallorbe. Here's the link I used to purchase (https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00YZ58DM8/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_search_asin_title?ie=UTF8&psc=1) them many years ago. Looks like they don't have them in stock right now, but I'm sure someone does. I ordered a gross of them because they do break with some regularity. Didn't break while I was sawing the "2" out, but if I'm making a long cut I'll invariably go through a bade or two.
Very interested to see how it works out.Me too! :embarassed:
Will you drill the hole for the rail before or after forming the ball? :popcorn:My current plan is to drill the hole before making the ball.
You made the cutter from tool steel, why didn't you go ahead and heat treat it? If you did, and then stoned the top surface to a keen edge it should cut good.Thanks Dave!
I'm betting that if you looked at it carefully under magnification you would find that it is not sharp.
Try feeding the form tool along the Z axis to round the top half. Then a smaller tool can cut the bottom fraction. You don't need a full-profile tool to cut a circle, Quarter circle and several tool positions.
Could the parts be brass? Lots easier to cut, if they willbe painted black anyway.Thanks for the suggestion, Chris.
It will be difficult to keep them all looking the same without a form tool and it would be interesting to see if this tool works with brass as Crueby suggested.Yes, that was my worry also. We'll see how I proceed. I likely won't get out to the shop today. Domestic duties are the order of the day. But maybe tomorrow...
I know guys like Clickspring make forming parts by hand with files, gravers and such look easy, but every time I try it they look like crap.
I did a double take when I saw the big bar of free cutting steel, after reading that you were going to make the railing 3/32" diameter - I thought "it's gonna take a while to turn that down to 3/32"!" :Lol: :cheers:Yeah, that would be quite an exercise in turning! :Lol:
Do the rail ends get soldered?No, doesn't show that in the instructions. But maybe I should. It would make disassembly and reassembly easier. Though I'd have to do it 'in place' on the door to hold everything in the correct alignment... :thinking:
And are the slotted clamp screws going to be swapped with stud and nuts?No plans to. This is what Kozo shows for the clamp screws. I don't know how prototypical it is though...
And are the slotted clamp screws going to be swapped with stud and nuts?No plans to. This is what Kozo shows for the clamp screws. I don't know how prototypical it is though...
Number 317 is an A5. Number 3 is an A3.Thanks Gene!
Gene
I wanted to say thank you for the amazing build log, and congratulations on your build so far - it really looks incredible. Really appreciate you putting together a clear BOM as well, that's also been a huge help (although I've only purchased the wheels so far - that was already confusing enough for a beginner :).Thank you for the kind words! I've learned so much doing this build and received so much help from everyone on this forum. I can be fairly confident that any valuable information you learn from my build log was provided by the generous here on MEM!
This thread will almost certainly serve as the definitive reference on building the A3 - really appreciate you including all the troubleshooting details and how you made your decisions as well. Looking forward to reading each new section as I get there in the book!
You need to sort out your top slide power feed, cranking the handle to do long parts like that looses its appeal quite quickly........ sure youve got a battery drill sitting in the corner .... you know the one its got the sign over saying...."PICK ME!"Now that's an interesting idea! :) :ThumbsUp:
Welcome to the "had covid club!" Best advice when your body says sit down i need a rest, do it! Both my wife & i found that once we had eaten all we wanted to do was sit... took a couple of weeks for that to pass.Yeah, the cough and sinus issues are lingering on, and I do notice I don't yet have my full stamina back. I get tired much more quickly! But time will heal.
That's some more fine fabrication :praise2: Kozo certainly gives some good information :ThumbsUp:Doesn't he though? :)
Awhile ago I made an aluminum adapter to drive the lathe's compound with a cordless drill. Obviously you want to set the drill clutch to it's lowest setting so it will slip if you run out of travel. Even on the slow speed range, I wish the drill went a bit slower but this technique does give you a smoother taper.Yeah, I've got a cordless drill and I might try it for this someday. I use the compound so rarely though, it hardly seems worth while to rig something up... But I may someday!
Came out great. Nice to know the hammer is still a vital tool in the machine shop!
:popcorn: :popcorn: :popcorn:
:ThumbsUp: :ThumbsUp: :ThumbsUp: :popcorn: :popcorn: :popcorn::ROFL:WOOT WOOT WOOT -------------WARNING - ULTRA BAD PUN IS ABOUT TO OCCUR - TAKE COVER -------WOOT WOOT WOOT---------------------
I'm just glad Kozo didn't design it in magnesium. We woulda had a remake of Blazing Saddles while silver soldering it, without any baked beans! :Lol: :facepalm:
:ThumbsUp: :ThumbsUp: :ThumbsUp: :popcorn: :popcorn: :popcorn: looking great Kim! I see you turned on the Klingon cloaking device to hide the boiler..... :Lol: (that's one theory, anyway!)Ugh... Did I forget to turn the cloaking device off again?!? :ROFL:
You didn't need to chain drill. Plunge the endmill and then cut. If you need to drill on a non-flat surface, use an endmill to create a flat spot then spot drill.True. My thinking was that copper is so grabby I'd rather drill than mill. Not sure it was the right choice.
Or cut the hole when the copper was flat. The dimensions aren't super-critical.
:ThumbsUp: :ThumbsUp: :ThumbsUp: :popcorn: :popcorn: :popcorn: Nice looking pipework Kim! You may be the first person in small locomotive building history to remember to put both nuts on the pipe , and the right way around, before soldering the ferrules! :Lol:I can definitively say it has not happened to me ... today! :wallbang:
(course that's never happened to me......much) :Lol:
:ThumbsUp: :ThumbsUp: :ThumbsUp: :popcorn: :popcorn: :popcorn: Nice looking pipework Kim! You may be the first person in small locomotive building history to remember to put both nuts on the pipe , and the right way around, before soldering the ferrules! :Lol:Well, I think it's the first time I've remembered to add the nuts. Several times I've had to un-solder the end to add the nuts, or just do it over again :wallbang:
(course that's never happened to me......much) :Lol:
No idea Kim what the correct name is - I've heard them described as all three names and a few more that aren't printable here! (don't want to make Chris's shop elves blush) :Lol:Yes, don't want to make the shop elves uncomfortable! This is a family forum after all! :Lol:
Thanks Per, Kvom, and Jeff! :cheers:It would take some real innovative cussing to shock my elves. After hearing their drink8ng songs (well, drunk singin), trust me! :hellno:No idea Kim what the correct name is - I've heard them described as all three names and a few more that aren't printable here! (don't want to make Chris's shop elves blush) :Lol:Yes, don't want to make the shop elves uncomfortable! This is a family forum after all! :Lol:
Kim
All that intricate work sure is time consuming isn’t it? Looking good Kim…It certainly is, Don! But I do enjoy it ^-^
Don
Looks like nice new homes for the LED bulbs! If you get REALLY adventurous, you could make them from thin sheet stock, cut/bend all those little corners... No? Neither would I!True, that would work. :)
Thanks Chris!I'd forgotten about the weight aspect! Was kidding about folding it up from sheet, that would be really really tricky to do!Looks like nice new homes for the LED bulbs! If you get REALLY adventurous, you could make them from thin sheet stock, cut/bend all those little corners... No? Neither would I!True, that would work. :)
But there may be something to having the additional weight of the solid chunk rather than an empty sheet metal box. At least, that's my thinking. Maybe? And, as you say, it's a LOT easier to get crisp-looking corners by carving from the solid.
Kim
The blocks still have that "oh!" expression reacting to their new topknot hairstyles! :Lol:Yeah, they're trying to get used to the 'man bun' :ROFL:
Thanks Jeff and Chris! :cheers:The blocks still have that "oh!" expression reacting to their new topknot hairstyles! :Lol:Yeah, they're trying to get used to the 'man bun' :ROFL:
Kim
I just figured the dragons liked having a handle to pick them up to snack on...Thanks Jeff and Chris! :cheers:The blocks still have that "oh!" expression reacting to their new topknot hairstyles! :Lol:Yeah, they're trying to get used to the 'man bun' :ROFL:
Kim
I don't believe either of those explanations. I'm thinking it's more in line with the "The Hound's" explanation of guys with a top-knot in 'Game of Thrones'. They're horrified that someone has discovered they've hidden a bald spot under the top-knot.
Don
:lolb:Thanks Jeff and Chris! :cheers:The blocks still have that "oh!" expression reacting to their new topknot hairstyles! :Lol:Yeah, they're trying to get used to the 'man bun' :ROFL:
Kim
I don't believe either of those explanations. I'm thinking it's more in line with the "The Hound's" explanation of guys with a top-knot in 'Game of Thrones'. They're horrified that someone has discovered they've hidden a bald spot under the top-knot.
Don
Excellent! And I noticed you have kept the back/etc labelled, key to prevent a goof. :popcorn: :popcorn: :popcorn:Yeah, that's of vital importance for me! Otherwise, I get all turned around and do things on the wrong side. Actually, I STILL get all turned around. But clear labeling helps! :insane:
Reaching back to my youth for a compliment while also referencing their solidity, I'll just say - Heavy, Dude! :ThumbsUp: :ThumbsUp:Well done! Excellent use of the way-back machine! :Lol:
Yes, that's the open hole in that last picture.
I'm still not completely sure how to run the wires out to the lights. Kozo doesn't really give any detail on that area that I could find. I think I see where the wire runs in a few spots in some of the pictures, but it's a strange oversite for him. He's usually so thorough on everything. Maybe it's there and I just can't find it now?
Ah well, I can be creative! ;)
Kim
Looking great, Kim. Glad to hear that you continue to mend well.Thanks Todd! Didn't know if anyone else would get that reference :Lol:
“All your bases are belong to us!” :lolb: Yup.
Todd
Paragraph 26.5 says the wiring details are in the section on the cab. But, only thing there is figure 32-14 which show the wire running to each light, ground through the metal loco so just one wire. No detail on where to hide it. As you said, thats unusual for Kozo. These days everything is wireless... :shrug:Yeah, that's what I found too, Chris...
Hollow handrails maybe, for wire routing? Lots of full size steam locomotives used pipe as handrails and the electric wiring was run inside. The wires would last a lot longer run thru handrails than if they were run in the fire tubes. :o :zap: :Lol: Cheers Kim!Interesting idea, Jeff... The hand rails are fairly small to begin with - 3/32". I'll have to check and see if I can get 3/32" OD tubing with 1/64" walls in stainless. Wonder if K&S has stainless in addition to brass? Hmm... I may have to check that out.
Just food for thought. Tube B or not tube B, as someone famous once said. :Lol: :cheers:Groan... (but very clever!)
I just noticed something in Kozo's photos. In photos showing the right side, there is a "pipe" running down the smokebox from just behind the headlight to the level of the running board, then turning 90 degrees to run back to the cab. Photos of the left side don't show this, nor do any of the drawings as far as I can tell. I think that must be Kozo's wire, camouflaged.Yes, Ron, I saw that too, and that's exactly what I was thinking. I'll likely do something like that too. If it's good enough for Kozo, it's good enough for me!
If you look at the cover picture of the book, you'll see a pipe attached to the side of the smokebox just behind the headlight and descending to the walkway. I think the wire passes through this and then under the walkway to the air tank/battery.Yes, I think you are quite correct. And this is my 'current' plan. Who knows what it will be when I finally get to implementing it! :Lol:
I've been delaying my own purchase of a new car for the exact same reason. That, and I'm not too sure how I will like everything being controlled by a computer screen. I guess I need to test drive it like you did.That was my biggest concern too. But I talked with several people who own one and they told me it took a few weeks to get used to, but after that, a non-issue. But isn't that the case with any new car? It takes a while to get used to where the controls are - the lights are on this side, not that side, the wipers are on the left stalk, no the right stalk, etc... To date, I haven't found it to be an issue. Even my wife seems to be handling it well :)
The model is coming along great! Looks really good.
I recently rode in a Tesla for the first time when I took the "tour" of the underground tunnels Musk's company is boring under Las Vegas. So far the system goes only between Resorts World and the LV Convention Center, so a 15-minute ride. Back seat was tight.That sounds like an interesting tour! Wonder what Tesla you rode in? I've found the Model Y to have a fairly spacious back seat, especially given that there is no 'hump' between the two sides - the floor is completely flat. But then, I'm not all that tall so that could make a difference. I know they sell some models with 3 rows of seats and the 3rd row is particularly cramped - only practically usable for small children. But that's likely not where you rode :)
Kim, I hope you are hiding the keys well so the shop elves don't go out for Ludicrous Mode test drives... :Jester:The joke will be on them! I didn't fork over the extra $$ for the performance upgrade. :ROFL:
Better that he puts a Denver Boot on it, I've heard the elves don't need no stinkin keys.Good idea! I'll see if I can pick up a boot on Amazon :Lol:
A tea light... that's an interesting idea! Wonder how they make them flicker? Must be some simple trick because those things are not incredibly expensive...
Wow! That is quite fascinating! Things you never knew...A tea light... that's an interesting idea! Wonder how they make them flicker? Must be some simple trick because those things are not incredibly expensive...
https://hackaday.com/2013/12/16/reverse-engineering-a-candle-flicker-led/
Yeah, the bare LED's are cheap. I have a lifetime supply box of these:
https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0785G1SBP
With today's LED's, you can go from fiendishly bright to a subtle low-level flickery glow in any color. Depends what you want any how you will use them.
LED's do not have a constant voltage across them (though they kind of do).
In the Datasheet you often see a plot of Voltage vs Current (not linear) - and here you will see a lover Voltage when you lower the Current ....
:Lol: :cheers: I think it might have been Sean Connery who said in a movie "don't bring a radius to a diameter fight" :shrug::lolb:
The headlight looks very good. Will there soon be a picture with LED and at night?Thanks Michael!
Michael
Not sure how Kozo got the 3/8” holes to fit.
Not sure how Kozo got the 3/8” holes to fit.
I recall that I read somewhere that this engine was built to metric dimensions, and Kozo changed everything to imperial when writing for Live Steam. Makes sense, since it would be fairly complex to work in imperial dimensions in Japan.
In that case it is likely that a 10 mm hole was used instead of 3/8". Not a lot of difference, but might be enough.
In the book, Kozo makes reference to adjusting the design after the actual model was finished.
Gene
And I’m afraid that the powder coating process would melt the soft solder, which seems less than ideal.
Hmm... Thanks for pointing that out, Ade!And I’m afraid that the powder coating process would melt the soft solder, which seems less than ideal.
I notice that Quinn (Blondihacks) is planning to powder coat her tender body/tank, and she's soft soldered it.... so I guess, watch that space!
I've never done any powder coating, so can't advise I'm afraid.
Powder coating temp is 400F. One can certainly test the solder beforehand.And apparently I did test it and didn't even connect that fact :Lol:
Yes, you're right Gene. I'm certain that I don't have any lead solder. All the solder I have is of the lead-free variety, which is probably why it worked!
Traditional 60/40 tin-lead solder starts to melt well below 400F. It would be pasty at first, but with little strength. The newer 95/5 tin-antimony solder does not melt until about 450F.
So there might be a bit of margin for the latter at 400F.
Gene
Hmm... Thanks for pointing that out, Ade!
I soft soldered my tender tank AND powder coated it and I never experienced any problems. Guess I didn't remember that! :embarrassed:
Didn't even think about the temperature issue at the time, but it worked regardless. So, it probably would have been OK, based on my limited experience.
How silly of me!
You are heading towards the last 20% of the project that also takes 80% of the time :thinking:Ain't that the truth! :Lol:
:ROFL:
Actually, the boiler is 90% of the work. Everything else is the other 90%.
Does anything ever go as smoothly and rapidly as planned? :LittleDevil:
Gene
Converting plans from metric to inch (or vice versa) is quite the undertaking!
No doubt! :Lol:Converting plans from metric to inch (or vice versa) is quite the undertaking!
That is likely why Kozo said "Never again" after the A3. :hammerbash:
I recall there were a number of errors in the Live Steam articles that were later corrected for the book.
Gene
Great improvised holding!:lolb: :ROFL: :lolb:
Took a look at that video, her solution is very cool, maybe you can make up those jigs for all of us for Christmas.... Kim? Hello? Oh, Kim left. Laughing hysterically!
:ThumbsUp: :ThumbsUp: :ThumbsUp: :popcorn: :popcorn: :popcorn: It turned out great despite the minor mishaps Kim! I have had a number of drills break over the years when drilling intersecting holes using smallish drills. Higher RPM and slower down feed can reduce the risk when doing small intersecting holes, I find. If there's much backlash in the down feed rack and pinion of the drilling machine it can allow the bit of movement needed for a snatch and break event too. :cheers:Thanks Jeff,
Great work on the lever!I seem to recall that he mentioned something about having the spring making it safer to drive for people who are just getting familiar with steam locos. Since if you get confused all you have to do is let go of the throttle and the steam will get shut off. I do have a couple of his other train books (not The New Shay however, that one seems to be out of print right now, for some reason) but I don't think I'll be changing the design for this. I'm happy to leave it with the 'spring to off' setup that Kozo has here.
I took a look in my copy of the book too, he doesn't show anything about that other hole. The other thing I don't get is that to run the engine, the driver would have to hold the throttle lever the whole time, or the spring will close it again, right? On the New Shay I built, he has a quadrant arc with notches, and a little spring loaded lever at the handle end, so you can open the throttle and keep it there in several different positions for different speeds. Why not the same on this one?? If you want, I can send you pics of those pages to work out the same thing on your model.
Nice job on the gasket and the springs! I'll have to put some of that wire in the basket on my next order from McMaster, got a project coming up that will need a couple of springs in a larger size than the usual ball-point pen diameters that I have gotten away with a few times.Thanks for the link, Chris! The wire worked great! :)
looks great!!! we have some horseradish in the family that dates back over 100 years, a vile strain that could be classified as a chemical weapon,, cut and peel it underwater, grind it in a food processor outside, make sure your upwind when you take the lid off.. :mischief: it will clear your sinuses if not careful!!! :Mad:Sounds like good stuff! Be careful with it :ROFL:
Nicely work.Good info! Yes, that makes sense. Thanks for the great input! Guess we'll see how it compares to real steam later.
The theory says that the spring rate of the steel for the springs will decrease slightly with an increase in temperature (Youngs Modulus decreases), so setting the valves on air is a conservative approach but should be close enough (say within ~6% of your target 100psi).
As to how it behaves after it opens - I'm not going to guess, I'll wait for the field report.
Mike
In Germany these “POP” safety valves are often offered by model steam dealers. They open immediately when the steam pressure is exceeded and close again immediately. I think they have a different structure on the valve cone and are not absolutely necessary for small model locomotives.
There must be some additional mechanical workings in there to provide a 'snap' open/close rather than this more gentle opening and closing.
Interesting. That makes a lot of sense.There must be some additional mechanical workings in there to provide a 'snap' open/close rather than this more gentle opening and closing.
I doubt there is any mechanical assistance. The pop action is largely controlled by the relative sizes of the components and the steam escape path. If the cross-section of the movable portion above the seat is large and the annulus is small the opening action will be a strong pop as the boiler pressure suddenly finds a much larger area to push on.
This needs to be balanced against the pressure differential wanted, as it would be easy to make a valve that would not close at a reasonable pressure.
I am no expert, having made only a few safety valves, but a lot has been written about the theory and practice.
Gene
All I know of the safety valves is that on the real thing, they are LOUD when they release!I'll bet! That must be something to hear! (With hearing protection on, of course! :LittleDevil:)
Thanks, Michael, for the info on a real-world safety valve. It does look much more complex than this simple one!Osha? Is that how OSh*t is pronounced in Maine? Ayuh! :lolb: The insurance company caught up with us last year, and we are not allowed to give rides anymore. Big bummer for all, it was a super popular ride! Apparently a couple years ago there was some accident at a hayride somewhere, probably at Halloween, and the lawsuits prompted all rides for everything to be shut down. The horse community got a law passed exempting horse drawn wagons from the ban, also anything purpose built for transporting people (like train rides with passenger coaches). Anything else is now a no-go. :shrug: We used to give rides on all three Lombards all day long, had lines of people waiting to sit on the wood pile in the back of the cab plus one lucky person up next to the steersman. They were just about to get a wagon top for the log sleds made when this happened. sigh.
And Ron, Thank you for the link to the article on safety valves. Very interesting!
Chris, OSHA must not be present for your Lombard demonstrations, eh? :Lol:
Kim
Thanks, Michael, for the info on a real-world safety valve. It does look much more complex than this simple one!Osha? Is that how OSh*t is pronounced in Maine? Ayuh! :lolb: The insurance company caught up with us last year, and we are not allowed to give rides anymore. Big bummer for all, it was a super popular ride! Apparently a couple years ago there was some accident at a hayride somewhere, probably at Halloween, and the lawsuits prompted all rides for everything to be shut down. The horse community got a law passed exempting horse drawn wagons from the ban, also anything purpose built for transporting people (like train rides with passenger coaches). Anything else is now a no-go. :shrug: We used to give rides on all three Lombards all day long, had lines of people waiting to sit on the wood pile in the back of the cab plus one lucky person up next to the steersman. They were just about to get a wagon top for the log sleds made when this happened. sigh.
And Ron, Thank you for the link to the article on safety valves. Very interesting!
Chris, OSHA must not be present for your Lombard demonstrations, eh? :Lol:
Kim
Waivers are a no go too - we asked about that, and quite a few of the visitors asked if they could sign a waiver! Only people we can have on the machines when moving are the museum volunteers. Guess we'll have to have a LOT of volunteers next year - anyone that comes in the gate!?Thanks, Michael, for the info on a real-world safety valve. It does look much more complex than this simple one!Osha? Is that how OSh*t is pronounced in Maine? Ayuh! :lolb: The insurance company caught up with us last year, and we are not allowed to give rides anymore. Big bummer for all, it was a super popular ride! Apparently a couple years ago there was some accident at a hayride somewhere, probably at Halloween, and the lawsuits prompted all rides for everything to be shut down. The horse community got a law passed exempting horse drawn wagons from the ban, also anything purpose built for transporting people (like train rides with passenger coaches). Anything else is now a no-go. :shrug: We used to give rides on all three Lombards all day long, had lines of people waiting to sit on the wood pile in the back of the cab plus one lucky person up next to the steersman. They were just about to get a wagon top for the log sleds made when this happened. sigh.
And Ron, Thank you for the link to the article on safety valves. Very interesting!
Chris, OSHA must not be present for your Lombard demonstrations, eh? :Lol:
Kim
Sorry to hear about the insurance company spoiling all the fun. It is good to be safe, but sometimes we take 'safe' a bit too far. What if you had people sign a liability waiver if they want to take a ride? You know, all those trampoline companies and such do that. You can't do anything without signing a paper saying that if they shoot you, you agree not to hold them liable. :Lol:
Kim
It looks amazing Kim!
Erm - is the front wheel supposed to be jumping up & down like that?
Amazing how much goes into what is (for the purpose of this model) 'just' a cover!Ain't that the truth! :Lol:
To get your curves did you think of swapping out the tool bit in your tangential holder? They hold a 1/4” round bit, broken center drills work well. The bit holder sharpener works for them too. Or you could get onto a side project & make up a ball turner.Now there's an interesting thought! I'll have to keep that in mind. That would have made a much smoother approximation - a lot less stairsteps to file out!
Love that little 2 piece jaw 3 jaw.. Taig?Yup, it's my Taig 3 jaw chuck on a 3" mandrel that I made - held in the 1" collet on the collet chuck :)
Nice work Kim.Thanks Mike!
FYI, another way of tackling that large radius saddle cut it to use a boring head on the mill. No long end mills or rotary table required.
Cheers,
Mike
If you don't like cast iron swarf, castings aren't for you. :LittleDevil:Yeah, maybe not! :Lol:
Kim said As of the time of this writing I have left the saddle in the lathe setup. I'd really like to be able to verify the radius using the boiler but I just can't figure out how to do that. There's just too much stuff in the way. So I may go with my 'best efforts' measuring. But just incase I have some great idea overnight, I'm leaving it there for now.
Could you make a Cardboard or Plywood disc to the diameter of your boiler and use that to verify your radius, just a thought.
Michaelr
Looking terrific!Thanks Chris!
For the filing thats left, isn't it all hand filing to blend the shapes down the side of the boiler? Where will it need to be spinning on the lathe?
Those black socket-head cap screws are always quite hard. I think they are Grade 8 in strength.That makes a lot of sense and matches what I saw. Yes, I was expecting that they'd be fairly easy to machine. Not the case. Those black SCHS are certainly very hard, I can vouch for that!
Ordinary hardware store screws, especially from places like Home Depot, tend to be relatively weak and much softer.
Gene
Carry on!:ROFL:
Like those old TV ads for Clairol (or some such product) only your hairdresser will know. :cheers:
Gene
If I was doing it, I'd bore the inside, with the small hole drilled through, then slip the bore over an expanding arbor which is held in the chuck, using the hole to run the hex wrench in to the screw to expand the arbor. Then shape the dome nice and far from the chuck jaws... As usual, many ways to peel the feline!Well, my first plan was a nice close fitting arbor of 1 1/8" (the longest bored section). But then I'd only have a single bolt holding it in place. Might be enough, but I was concerned about it spinning. The expanding mandrel is a good idea. I didn't think about that. That's a good idea, Chris.
Hi Kim, since the OD of the dome is a 2 1/8" dia cylinder, you could shape the outside on the end of a bar and then part off. Turn it around in the chuck to grip it on the OD and bore it inside. Some pop/soda can shims between jaws and work to protect your nicely finished dome would be a good idea.Good plan, Jeff! I had considered that at one time but I'd still have to have enough material to hold the part out from the jaw so I could keep my fingers away from the jaws. But may not be much worse than what I'm doing now :)
I believe the groove below the 1/16" lip at the small end of the dome is a decorative feature on the real engine, so a little deviation there from the Kozo plan won't hurt a thing. If it looks awful after you finish - add a pinstripe! :Lol:Yes, my thoughts exactly! :Lol:
(as Chris said, there are many ways to put the body panels on yellow bulldozers) :naughty::lolb:
...like you took a disc and let it melt down over the boiler! :ThumbsUp:I thought almost the same thing, but Chris beat me to writing it! Nice work, Kim. :cheers:
Thank you Keith! :cheers:
Good idea on the soft solder as filler :ThumbsUp:
Kim
Does JB Weld take powder coating? I think you were planning to powder coat these parts?
These days leading up to Christmas are busy days! Not much shop time. But still, a lot of fun!My experience these days also. Saddle looks great, but glad you're enjoying the "other" things too! :ThumbsUp: :cheers:
My shop elves would like to order some deep sea diving helmets. Same basic shape as the sand dome, just add windows...Guess we'll have to see what Santa brings, eh? Have the elves been naughty or nice? Guess we'll find out! :LittleDevil:
Do you need to hollow out the dome like the other one, or is this one mostly solid?It's mostly solid. Only a little bore to make room for the water fill plug that it covers. And for the screw that attaches it!
These days leading up to Christmas are busy days! Not much shop time. But still, a lot of fun!
Today I finished the sandbox saddle. The last thing to do was to cut the flats for the sand pipes for attaching the sandpipes.
It took me a while to come up with a method I liked for doing this, but I’m quite pleased with the method I came up with.
I used the same fixture for holding the saddle as was used for sanding. I held this fixture on the mill with a 3C spindexer. Here I’m tapping it into position so that it is in line with the X-axis of the table.
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/250c-SandboxSaddle-1-KIM_2758.jpg)
To define the middle of the saddle I placed the foot of the DTI on its edge and rotated the spindexer till I got the highest reading. This may not be perfect, but it will be plenty accurate enough. This defined my Zero Degree reference point for the saddle. The sandpipe attachment points have to be +/- 15 degrees from that reference.
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/250c-SandboxSaddle-2-KIM_2760.jpg)
Now, to determine where it is on the X-axis, I used the pointy edge finder to locate the top of the saddle.
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/250c-SandboxSaddle-3-KIM_2763.jpg)
Now I can move down with a 5/32” center cutting end mill and make the flat spot for the sandpipes. I did this by plunging straight down on each end, then plunging down on the middle, and running up and down to clean up the edges. I made the lands a couple thou larger than 5/32”, according to Kozo’s drawings.
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/250c-SandboxSaddle-4-KIM_2765.jpg)
And after doing that three more times at the appropriate angle, we have the completed sandbox saddle!
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/250c-SandboxSaddle-5-KIM_2768.jpg)
Here it is sitting in place waiting for me to make the sandbox dome.
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/250c-SandboxSaddle-6-KIM_2770.jpg)
Though it took me a while to come up with this, I am really quite pleased with this order of ops. I think it worked out quite well!
Thanks for stopping by for a visit,
Kim
Thanks Dave and Jeff! :cheers:You'll love that Mk4 upgrade, did mine a couple months ago. Much faster than the Mk3!
I'm off playing with my new Christmas present right now - the Mk4 upgrade for my Mk3 Prusa 3D printer! :) I should have that done here soon(ish) depending on shop time, of course. Then I'll be back to plugging away at my Pennsy! :ThumbsUp:
Thanks for the kind words, Dave!
Kim
it took a year to make that dome, boy, I thought I was slow. :ROFL: :lolb::lolb:
Looks fantastic, a screw holds down the sand dome and the cap covers the screw, what holds the cap in place??Gravity, and a little bit of friction? :D
Nice!! What goes in that hole just forward of the water plug, the bell?
Are you also going to make a screw-on funnel for filling, or are you a direct-to-hose type of person?Now there's something I hadn't considered! :Lol:
Wilf
It’s been mighty cold up here in the Northwest!We're driving up there next week, so I'm glad that snow and ice storm is over!
And that is good progress Kim! Keep your feet warm and watch for falling tree limbs.
We have set a record for snow in January that beat our snowmageddon of 2017.
Dave
That IS a quite complex shape! Do the screws at the dome end stay that long? Why do they stick out so far?
Hello Kim,
In the end you did a good job with the pipes. Bending steel pipe is not as easy to bend as brass or copper pipe.
When I was still an apprentice and had to bend steel pipe (15 mm) in the company where I wanted to learn the profession, I sweated a lot. The master wanted all the bends of the 6 m long rods to be made at once with the bending device. And don't cut the pipe into many small pieces. These were measuring lines for the water level from a steam boiler with 40 bar steam pressure and a welder with the appropriate certificates had to come to each separation point.
I don't really like bending long pipes.
Michael
A trick I use sometimes when painting tiny screws is to screw the non painted end into a potato or carrot chunk. The screws seem to hold firmly with this method and handling is much easier for tiny ones than using holes in cardboard (my usual method for bigger screws #8-32 and up in size). The veg chunk has some weight so they don't get blown around by the paint propellant. Hope the idea helps. :cheers:That's a really interesting technique, Jeff! I'll have to remember that when it comes time to paint tinny parts. I've done the poke it in cardboard or styrofoam thing too, but I like the potato idea!
It isn't the big things that are scary, it's the tiny stuff... Just looking at these pictures has me shuddering! :paranoia:
Is it possible to make a small dent in the cladding sheet? That might be true to original! Or is that not the cladding I am looking at?Yes, that's the cladding that it's rubbing up against. However, there is NO space between the cladding and the boiler. The cladding is just wrapped immediately around the boiler. So to get any space I'd have to dent both the cladding and the boiler. And I don't feel good about denting the boiler :(
Ian.
Good choice Kim, you can also anneal the brass which will make it much easier to work with if needed.
Are there some brackets or clamps the hold the pipes in place?
Dave
I have heard that people turn the boring bar around and run the mill in reverse to do an ‘outside bore’ like this.
Hello Kim.Yes, it does seem odd that there's no supports for the sand pipes. Ah well, probably doesn't really matter on my model. Just seems a little strange, doesn't it?
the sand fall pipes look very good!
I've looked at some old black and white photos of this locomotive on the internet and I can't see any further attachment of the pipes.
But I also can't imagine that there weren't any other fortifications there. The pipes would eventually break due to the vibrations. I could imagine that there might be an attachment point at the bottom of the frame.
Are you going to build a real Bourdon pressure gauge like this?
This will be very interesting.
During my training as a measurement technician, I often had to check pressure gauges with a calibrated precision pressure gauge.
This happened with an oil pump on a testing apparatus.
Michael
Oh, that does sound, 'exciting'. A little more excitement than I generally want when I'm puttering in my shop! Glad no one was hurt and nothing was damaged.I have heard that people turn the boring bar around and run the mill in reverse to do an ‘outside bore’ like this.
I tried that, once. It was for a very light cut, in wood.
Within about 1 msec the boring head came unscrewed from its mandrel. :hammerbash: :hammerbash: :hammerbash:
Fortunately there was no serious damage, but never again! :hammerbash: :hammerbash: :hammerbash:
Gene
Wait.... is the head screwed into the R8 spindle?
Your own shop made pressure gauge, wow!
I read this chapter in the Kozo's book, incredible of details about the build of the bourdon tube.
Sounds like a job for you, if you don't mind me saying so.
That's fascinating! I can see the 'per square inch' part. But in the pics posted by Ian, the $ doesn't make sense to me. Dollars per square inch? :???:
Kim
Ah... yes, of course, that would make more sense :embarassed:That's fascinating! I can see the 'per square inch' part. But in the pics posted by Ian, the $ doesn't make sense to me. Dollars per square inch? :???:
Kim
I think it's a stylised "lbs"
Wilf
Perhaps the Fabrik-Zeichen gauge's "U" is for "Uber" (over) pressure.Seems like a reasonable guess to me! :)
John
Thanks Per and Alex!
Yes, there's so much to learn in the 3D printing world too. I'm just beginning my journey there. I've printed lots of stuff I've downloaded, but just starting to design my own things. That is a LOT more fun for sure! :)
I've got the Prusa Mk4 which I just love (recently upgraded it from the Mk3+). I know the rage right now is the Bambu printer cause its so fast. But I've seen it working and I don't think it's much (if any) faster than the Mk4. But it's new and cool. And I've heard good things about it too, so I'm sure it's a great printer.
Kim
What is the goop from Rio Grande? I've gotten silver solder wire from them a number of times, but hadn't noticed that stuff. Is it re-usable? Looks handy for orienting small parts.
Clever use of an end mill as a form tool in the lathe. I'll have to remember that one!Thanks Ron, though I'm quite certain that it isn't original with me. I have used it before with some success, though it didn't work as well when I tried to use a 5/8" ball nose mill - the end profile of that larger mill wasn't flat enough to make a good form tool in the steel I was using it on. But this smaller 3/16 was very flat across the whole main profile. Plus, I was using on brass, a fairly easy form job!
If you are lazy like me you can also use router bits as form tools in the lathe.:ThumbsUp:
Looks great! No family photo???Only a couple more little parts left on the bell, THEN we'll have a full family photo!
What video ?In my post about 6 posts back. Its a youtube link, maybe your browser is blocking it? :headscratch:
Per
This is what I see :
If they are contry locked - I usually see a still of it - and a click on that gives 'This video is blocked in your area' .... but as you see - absolutely nothing of the kind here :headscratch:
Per :cheers:
Hi Kim,
Just done a catch up! Boy you have been busy! Well done great progress!
Going back a couple of pages…. The boring head….. I tried a run in reverse….. yep started to unscrew in a micro second! I’ve changed from the brazed on bits that came with the head that cut, well if you call it that, to use tipped boring bars FAR better. Mine are 12mm I got a couple & cut down to lengths using the 9 piece brazed ones as a guide that are mentioned in the sales stuff, tried full length but too much spring. After the wee oops I jumped on eBay & a seller there was offering both left & right plus a 10 pack of tips at a reasonable rate, hopefully make next time less heart stopping! Oh the other thing to do is drill the head & fit a grub / set screw to lock the head & the taper fitting together.
For the bell on Toby I found a candle snuffer was pretty close to bell shape, it didn’t take much to remove the handle & make a way of hanging it, for the clapper….. a ball bearing on a rod works well! I was lucky on the frame mine was steel!
Cheers Kerrin
That's one Belle of a bell, Kim! You should bring the tender out for the next family shot (or did you forget where you put it? :Lol: )Your shop elves take the tender to get beer?
Hi Kim,:ROFL:
Isn’t tender “a place for beer storage in elf”?……
Cheers Kerrin
:ThumbsUp: :ThumbsUp: :ThumbsUp: :popcorn: :popcorn: :popcorn: I know beer causes foaming in a shop elf's glass, but not sure if it causes foaming in an A-3 boiler... :thinking: :Lol:Thats a boiler? I thought it was the brew kettle... Pair of tap pumps up front... Oh, those are engines! :Lol:
Your A3 is really looking good, you are getting close to the light at the end of the tunnel. :) :cartwheel:Thanks, Rusty! And of course, we hope that light isn't another train coming the other direction! :Lol:
Amazing how much work goes into an unassuming looking little part like that manifold, isn't it?! Looking forward to hearing the toots from the whistle!
Detours in the shop are usually very rewarding in future projects or operations. And give time to reflect on the project in progress.
gerrit
Why Mad in the second to last picture Kim ?I have no idea how that got in there! Welll, I removed the errant angry emoji now so as to confuse fewer people.
I mean - All the parts looks good and you do not mention any mishaps ... :thinking:
Per :cheers:
Thanks Todd, Per, and Jeff!Slim was probably tired of waiting for his lunch (ribs? :Lol: )Why Mad in the second to last picture Kim ?I have no idea how that got in there! Welll, I removed the errant angry emoji now so as to confuse fewer people.
I mean - All the parts looks good and you do not mention any mishaps ... :thinking:
Per :cheers:
Thanks for noticing that Per! I have no clue how that snuck in there! :embarassed:
That must be it! :ROFL:Thanks Todd, Per, and Jeff!Slim was probably tired of waiting for his lunch (ribs? :Lol: )Why Mad in the second to last picture Kim ?I have no idea how that got in there! Welll, I removed the errant angry emoji now so as to confuse fewer people.
I mean - All the parts looks good and you do not mention any mishaps ... :thinking:
Per :cheers:
Thanks for noticing that Per! I have no clue how that snuck in there! :embarassed:
Kozo specifies 0.018” diameter for this, but I had 0.024”. I kinda thought I needed a little stiffer spring than he specified anyway. The button is a little stiff moving through the o-ring and I want to make sure the whistle stops when you stop pressing the button!I think that's wise. The little whistle valve I made tended to get a little gunked up and stiff after a few runs on live steam.
Thanks Ron. Nice to hear some real world experience here. ;DQuoteKozo specifies 0.018” diameter for this, but I had 0.024”. I kinda thought I needed a little stiffer spring than he specified anyway. The button is a little stiff moving through the o-ring and I want to make sure the whistle stops when you stop pressing the button!I think that's wise. The little whistle valve I made tended to get a little gunked up and stiff after a few runs on live steam.
Great! Will Tune in for the tuning... whistles can take some testing and tweaking, and do sound a little different on air vs steam.Thanks Chris!
Sweet sounding whistle!! :cartwheel: Great!Thanks Chris!
That brass looks like 260, nasty stuff to turn! Polish it up and hope the shop gnomes steal it! :Lol:
There is a cab in there somewhere?
I would have used the brass column for a hatched sign to mount it there with a bracket. Maybe there's room for a sign there.Is the idea that the hatched sign makes it easier to see the water level in the glass?
A good start at the water level glass!Ah, even better! Less confusion! Can't be too careful with these shop elves :ROFL:
(It's called "Wasserstandsanzeigeglas" in German. A long word. Can't be confused with a shot glass ( Schnapsglas ) :cheers: 😁)
It all adds up - both to the functionality and the Character of the Loco, Kim.Thanks Per! Yes, my engine has PLENTY of character :ROFL:
The S is for Switcher!
If anyone ever asks about the S bend, just tell them it helps keep the Reynolds number of the steam flow where it needs to be....Both are excellent reasons for the S-curve. However, the real reason it's there is to improve the interaction of the steam flow though the flux capacitor :lolb:
Better that that copper tube was a little too long, rather than too short. :)
Nice! For cutting the glass tube, I've always used a triangular needle file and scored around the tube with that, less pressure than using a scriber tip, just normal filing action. The tape and the rest are the way to go.Interesting... I originally tried a small triangle needle file but it didn't seem to be biting into the glass at all - didn't seem like I was getting a score line. Maybe my needle files are just too old and dull? Or maybe that's just me that's getting old and dull :-\
... There are lot's of intricate little parts in the cab.No kidding! And there's still more of them to go. After the blower, I've got, the blow-down valve, the sheet metal for the cab itself, the air tank (which is where the battery for the lights will be hidden), and lots of plumbing work. And I mean a LOT of plumbing. But I am getting close, which is very exciting!
I couldn’t resist screwing the valve stem into the valve body to see how it would look. It looked pretty cool to me!I agree! Enjoy the donuts (where's the coffee emoji?). :ThumbsUp: :ThumbsUp: :cheers:
Nice! When I made my New Shay, I used this as a convenient way to hook up an air line to the compressor for running at shows, much less visible than up top of the boiler. Only change needed was to make the output tube a little bigger and with barbs on it to hold the air hose better, with a wire clamp too. Just an option, you could make two donuts and tubes, one normal and one barbed.That's a great idea! I may have to steal that one :ThumbsUp: ;D
:ThumbsUp: :ThumbsUp: :ThumbsUp: :popcorn: :popcorn: :popcorn: Some great work there Kim! Like the air hookup barb! Great idea on that from Chris too. One silly gag you could have some fun with it to paint the barb fitting Barbie pink and say you got it from the Compressed Air Barbie set, with the 4X4 off road Jeep!Eeewww! Mentioning Barbie in a thread as classy as this one! :hammerbash: Do NOT paint this loco pink!
:ThumbsUp: :ThumbsUp: :ThumbsUp: :popcorn: :popcorn: :popcorn: Hard to beat several feet of steel sheet in a sheet fleet. :thinking: :Lol: :facepalm2:
(don't say that fast, will ya?) :Lol:
I was kind of wondering how you were going to make out with the alloy steel, and wondering why you didn't purchase some CRS instead? I think that it would be much easier to form and work with.
Two questions. What is the bowling pin for? Will you make a pavillion for your shop elves from the purple roof?
:Lol:
Sometimes I think the best tool in my shop is the 3D printer, it is so useful.No joke! I'm sure I'd have figured out a way to do this without the printer, others obviously have. But this sure worked out nicely for me!
gerrit
Yeah, soft solder doesn't work well at all on stainless. Silver solder does, but on a thin piece like that you'd be risking warping the room.Yeah, that certainly matches my experience here. I looked it up on the all-knowing internet and seemed to come up with the answer that you could solder stainless. But like you said, it doesn't seem to work super well.
If the roof was brass or copper then soft solder would stick fine. I'm surprised that Kozo didn't specify riveting them in place, he uses rivets in lots of places on the cabs on his other models. I've found that if you use a countersink cutter (like for wood screw heads) on the edges of the holes, you can give room for the rivets to expand into without sticking up so far, enough that you can file them off flush but still have them hold in that beveled area.Interesting idea. I'll probably stick with the solder method for the cab, but we'll see how it goes. the countersunk rivet idea is a good one!
:popcorn: :popcorn: