Model Engine Maker
Engines => Your Own Design => Topic started by: Brian Rupnow on January 25, 2017, 06:02:12 PM
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This morning I'm setting around with some free time, and I've been thinking for a while now about an overhead cam air cooled engine. There are a lot of horizontal and vertical cylinder engines out there, but I haven't seen very many single cylinder engines like the old "Iron Horse" washing machine engines with the cylinder on a 45 degree angle. My thoughts of course, were that if you could hang the entire camshaft off the cylinder head, then it would give you the freedom to run the cylinder on just about any angle you wanted. By using a cogged belt drive to the camshaft instead of a gear train, that opens up even more freedom with placement of components. I looked through all of the engines I have built over the past few years, and ended up leaning heavily on my Atkinson for some of this, so if it looks a bit familiar, then that is why. I'm not saying I'll actually build this, but you know how it is------Brian
(http://i307.photobucket.com/albums/nn294/BrianRupnow/FULL%20ASSEMBLY--OVERHEAD%20CAM_zpsbkwl8gcz.jpg) (http://s307.photobucket.com/user/BrianRupnow/media/FULL%20ASSEMBLY--OVERHEAD%20CAM_zpsbkwl8gcz.jpg.html)
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:popcorn:
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Very interesting design. Looks ripe for lots of embellishments as well.
Gerrit
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Looks like it would be modular enough to make a multi cylinder version at different angles too...
:popcorn:
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Yet another interesting build :ThumbsUp: :ThumbsUp: :wine1:
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Well----At this point in time it looks Ahhh---Interesting!! I've been waiting most of the day for a call back from a customer, and while I wait I can "doodle". As shown, it has a 1" bore, a 1 1/8" stroke, and that is a 5 1/8" flywheel setting on there. The crankshaft is 3/8" and runs on two sealed ball bearings at each end. The crankshaft is a two piece unit. The "driver" end which supports the flywheel and has the rod journal on it is one pressed together assembly, the other part of the crank is a "follower crank" and will ultimately drive a cogged pulley and the ignition points. The cogged pulley shown on the cam shaft is only about half the diameter it will end up being in reality.--There may even be a way to incorporate fan blades into the camshaft pulley to blow a stream of cooling air over the cylinder.
(http://i307.photobucket.com/albums/nn294/BrianRupnow/FULL%20ASSEMBLY--OVERHEAD%20CAM_zpswmpkoufx.jpg) (http://s307.photobucket.com/user/BrianRupnow/media/FULL%20ASSEMBLY--OVERHEAD%20CAM_zpswmpkoufx.jpg.html)
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The only bearings that will need lubrication in the engine itself are the con rod big end and the wrist pin. The con rod big end is very easily accessible for a squirt of lubricating oil from my trusty oil can. The wrist pin, however, is hard to get at to oil. Since this is a 1" diameter piston, I am going to try and find room in the small end of the connecting rod for a sealed ball bearing. I won't do that at the big end because it throws the crankshaft too out of balance.
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Brian, you might be able to use a needle roller in the little end bearing, I noted on the last chain saw I stripped that it had one. This looks like an interesting motor.
Ian S C
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Brian,
Here's a thought while you're still in the planning stages. To reduce the size of the sprocket on the camshaft (twice the crankshaft sprocket diameter) use a set of gears down low to get your reduction then you can make the pulleys the same size and smaller. To reduce the height of the cam over the valves make a cap with a recess in it to hold a hardened shim. This way the cam will have a hardened surface to ride on and it will substantially reduce the overall height. The shims can't come out because the recess is deeper than whatever clearance you use. This is how some motorcycle engines are built.
gbritnell
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I was able to shorten up the blue towers considerably, by getting rid of the pellet shaped pushrods completely and letting the cams push right on the end of the hardened yellow caps. These yellow caps are closed on the end that contacts the cap, and open on the other end to contain the valve spring and for a pinned connection to the end of the valves. The transparent bar guides them and keeps the cam from putting any side load on the valve stem. I thought about how to tie the two sideplates together and decided that a piece of 3/8" thick aluminum angle would be just the ticket. It provides rigidity to the sideplates, and also acts as a great containment for any oil slung off the big end of the con rod. I will mill a recess for a polished brass cover plate which has super magnets embedded into the underside of it, and put some ferrous plugs in the aluminum side plates for the magnets to stick to. this allows me to remove the cover plate, give the big end of the rod a squirt of lubricating oil, then put the cover plate back into place. I am not a fan of oil filled crank cases.
(http://i307.photobucket.com/albums/nn294/BrianRupnow/OVERHEAD%20CAM%20SHORTER%20TOWERS_zpsmyifbfcd.jpg) (http://s307.photobucket.com/user/BrianRupnow/media/OVERHEAD%20CAM%20SHORTER%20TOWERS_zpsmyifbfcd.jpg.html)
(http://i307.photobucket.com/albums/nn294/BrianRupnow/FULL%20ASSEMBLY--OVERHEAD%20CAM-MODEL_zpsrg3ntrwj.jpg) (http://s307.photobucket.com/user/BrianRupnow/media/FULL%20ASSEMBLY--OVERHEAD%20CAM-MODEL_zpsrg3ntrwj.jpg.html)
(http://i307.photobucket.com/albums/nn294/BrianRupnow/FULL%20ASSEMBLY--OVERHEAD%20CAM_zps3hlyk8ia.jpg) (http://s307.photobucket.com/user/BrianRupnow/media/FULL%20ASSEMBLY--OVERHEAD%20CAM_zps3hlyk8ia.jpg.html)
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Interesting design so far!! I'm following.. :popcorn:
The cam followers don't need to be pinned to the valves. They'll stay in place, trapped between the valve and the cam.
Pete
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Pete--On one of the forums I visit, somebody has just completed a build of an overhead cam engine designed by Jan of the Netherlands. It worked very well, and had absolutely gigantic towers supporting the overhead cam. This got me thinking about how you could accomplish the same thing with smaller towers, which lead to this design with the towers supported off the cylinder head.--Then, after designing the cylinder head and cam support towers, I had to design some kind of engine to go with it. I get these ideas chasing around in my head, and I can't rest until I set down at the computer to see what they would look like.---Brian
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I can really relate to that, Brian. My brain gets going sometimes and just won't let go!! But I love the results...always interesting stuff.
Pete
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So---The plot thickens---a little bit. I see that with an adapter, I can mount one of my Traxxas carburetors. I could build my own carburetor, but why make more work? I hunted around on my old Atkinson engine thread from back in 2012 and found the name of the company I bought the timing belt and pulleys from. This time I need two pulleys, one exactly twice as big as the other for my 2:1 ratio, and since I now know what my center to center of pulleys are, I was able to call the company in North Carolina that supplied the pulleys 5 years ago and ask for price, delivery, and 3D solid models of the pulleys. I added an exhaust "muffler" and manifold to the engine. (I may rethink the shape of that exhaust manifold, I'm not sure yet). It doesn't show in the model, but I have rejigged those magenta coloured bearing housings to set in tighter to the engine sideplates. The timing belt pulleys on the engine are not updated yet.--I have to get the new 3d models before I can do that.
(http://i307.photobucket.com/albums/nn294/BrianRupnow/FULL%20ASSEMBLY--OVERHEAD%20CAM_zpsrfh9f0b8.jpg) (http://s307.photobucket.com/user/BrianRupnow/media/FULL%20ASSEMBLY--OVERHEAD%20CAM_zpsrfh9f0b8.jpg.html)
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Sorry for intruding Brian - but to me this has a similarity with old Honda and Airmacchi engines and then the exhaust should be leaving the cylinderhead on the downward side (opposite to where you placed it) and the carb should be where you placed the exhaust .... this would also be the most pleasing look to my eyes ... ;)
Best wishes
Per
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Sorry for intruding Brian - but to me this has a similarity with old Honda and Airmacchi engines and then the exhaust should be leaving the cylinderhead on the downward side (opposite to where you placed it) and the carb should be where you placed the exhaust .... this would also be the most pleasing look to my eyes ... ;)
Best wishes
Per
Admiral--There is a great deal of merit to what you say. Since I run a bit of 2 cycle oil with my fuel, the exhaust from these little engines is nasty, and will coat everything below and in line with the exhaust pipe. If I make the switch you suggest, then my exhaust pipe can be long enough to extend out past the flywheel and keep everything cleaner.---Brian
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I was wondering about where to put the ignition points. Once again the beauty of a single cylinder engine being able to run a "waste spark" system has saved me. I can fit them on the side opposite to the flywheel and run them off the crankshaft. Although the top timing belt pulley up at the cam is going to be twice as large as the diameter shown, the small pulley down at the crankshaft is going to stay very close to what is currently shown.
(http://i307.photobucket.com/albums/nn294/BrianRupnow/FULL%20ASSEMBLY--OVERHEAD%20CAM%20WITH%20POINTS_zpsmmylbxmu.jpg) (http://s307.photobucket.com/user/BrianRupnow/media/FULL%20ASSEMBLY--OVERHEAD%20CAM%20WITH%20POINTS_zpsmmylbxmu.jpg.html)
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Admiral_dk--as per your suggestion, I have swapped the position of the exhaust pipe and the carburetor. I don't know yet if I will leave that strange little intake manifold in place, or remove it completely and let the carb stick out at 90 degrees from the cylinder. That might look good with a really well shaped air intake horn.
(http://i307.photobucket.com/albums/nn294/BrianRupnow/FULL%20ASSEMBLY--OVERHEAD%20CAM-INTAKE%20AND%20EXHAUST%20SWAPPED%20PLACES_zpsfuoeowpq.jpg) (http://s307.photobucket.com/user/BrianRupnow/media/FULL%20ASSEMBLY--OVERHEAD%20CAM-INTAKE%20AND%20EXHAUST%20SWAPPED%20PLACES_zpsfuoeowpq.jpg.html)
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Now it's looking like an engine!! :whoohoo:
:popcorn: :popcorn:
Pete
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I had to move the cylinder intake port around again, as there was no way to get a gas tank mounted with the previous configuration. This will work out pretty good, I think. The exhaust pipe discharges out between the timing belt drive, and the carburetor sucks in fresh air from the flywheel side. I had to make my "crank-case access hatch" a bit smaller as the gas tank covered the top portion of it, but I still have lots of room to get in there with a squirt can. I am going to have to rethink the use of a ball bearing in the small end of the con rod. A 3/16" i.d. ball bearing is 1/2" o.d. and there simply isn't enough room for it.--And nobody sells a 3/16" sealed roller bearing.
(http://i307.photobucket.com/albums/nn294/BrianRupnow/FULL%20ASSEMBLY--OVERHEAD%20CAM%20WITH%20GAS%20TANK_zpstzba4sua.jpg) (http://s307.photobucket.com/user/BrianRupnow/media/FULL%20ASSEMBLY--OVERHEAD%20CAM%20WITH%20GAS%20TANK_zpstzba4sua.jpg.html)
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A big THANK YOU shout out to Luc from Quebec for putting me onto R.C. ball bearings at the hobby shop. I bought two 3/16" i.d. sealed bearings that measure 0.311" outside diameter x exactly 0.125" thick. These two will set side by side in the small end of my 1/4" thick connecting rod. They are part #DTXC1413, and cost $2.49 each. Yes, I do realize that ball bearings are not recommended for something like a wrist pin, which only oscillates back and forth, but doesn't spin fully around. However, they have to be better than a bushing with no lubrication at all. Time will tell about that one. I also bought four 1/4" sealed flanged ball bearings that are 0.421" diameter over the flange, 0.375" over the other diameter, and have a total thickness of 0.125". Each camshaft support tower will receive two of those. They are part #DTXC1517 and cost $3.99 each. This means that the only bearing surface on this entire engine that doesn't have a ball bearing will be the big end of the con-rod, which will probably get an oilite sintered bronze bushing, and will be easily accessible for oiling by removing the magnetic "inspection hatch" cover.
(http://i307.photobucket.com/albums/nn294/BrianRupnow/IMG_0576_zpsyk6ytjou.jpg) (http://s307.photobucket.com/user/BrianRupnow/media/IMG_0576_zpsyk6ytjou.jpg.html)
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I keep moving things around, looking for the "ideal" configuration. I got my information today on that 60 tooth pulley that goes on the cam shaft, and it's big enough in diameter that my exhaust pipe was going to run thru the side of it. I messed around a bit having the exhaust come out of the cylinder and point straight up, but that not only looked a bit dumb, but would have covered the entire engine in oil spatter after five minutes of running. Then I had a new thought and turned the cylinder head around 180 degrees on the cylinder. I like that!! I can still have the carburetor where it was before, and have the exhaust pipe pointing down and away from everything.
(http://i307.photobucket.com/albums/nn294/BrianRupnow/FULL%20ASSEMBLY--OVERHEAD%20CAM_zpsixb7tw4s.jpg) (http://s307.photobucket.com/user/BrianRupnow/media/FULL%20ASSEMBLY--OVERHEAD%20CAM_zpsixb7tw4s.jpg.html)
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Why yes, I DO have a rotary table!!!--And sometimes I do use it for making something other than gears. I have turned the crank on this one so many times this morning that I'm thinking of changing my name to "Crankenstein". If I don't manage to screw this up before I get finished, it is going to make a very pretty little cylinder head.
(http://i307.photobucket.com/albums/nn294/BrianRupnow/IMG_0580_zpsodap8tvh.jpg) (http://s307.photobucket.com/user/BrianRupnow/media/IMG_0580_zpsodap8tvh.jpg.html)
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The design is coming together nicely :ThumbsUp: :ThumbsUp: Can you reduce the size of the camshaft pulley? It seems somewhat overpowering.
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So I guess we can assume that the "original design concept " is going to be a build :stir:
Cletus
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When I first looked at the cylinder head detail, I immediately had a big whine and thought "Oh, but this is going to be so hard.---Wahhhhh". Then I thought "Yes, but I've designed similar "hard to make" parts over the last fifty years, and never gave a second thought for the poor guy in the machine shop who actually had to build the parts. So, since I liked the design, I went ahead and made it to the drawing. Lots of work and multiple set-ups there, but I like the finished part. And every part like this that I make stretches my abilities just that little bit more.---I did change the timing belt pulleys.--went from 30 tooth and 60 tooth down to 20 tooth and 40 tooth. Proportions look a lot better now.
(http://i307.photobucket.com/albums/nn294/BrianRupnow/IMG_0584_zpsgntd0uvy.jpg) (http://s307.photobucket.com/user/BrianRupnow/media/IMG_0584_zpsgntd0uvy.jpg.html)
(http://i307.photobucket.com/albums/nn294/BrianRupnow/FULL%20ASSEMBLY--OVERHEAD%20CAM_zpsec8ckyeq.jpg) (http://s307.photobucket.com/user/BrianRupnow/media/FULL%20ASSEMBLY--OVERHEAD%20CAM_zpsec8ckyeq.jpg.html)
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I like this engine, and just need to keep the popcorn locker filled. :popcorn:
Changing the cogwheel sizes really helped!!!
:cheers:
Pete
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My engines spend most of their time on the shelf where I can look at them and (lately) I've come to realize that well-executed, elegant design is worth the extra effort.
Chuck
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Brian,
I've been following along silently. Not that looks are everything but the design looks better w/o the ginormous cam sprocket. Just my 2 cents worth. :)
Art
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Chuck--I'm glad to hear from you. I don't see you on the forums as much now as I used to, and hoped that you were okay. Art and Pete, thank you for your comments. It is nice to know that people are looking at my posts.---Brian
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It's a whole new world running a lathe with a DRO on it. First observation is that no matter how well placed the display unit is, you can't watch both it and the tool tip at the same time. You can watch one, or you can watch the other, but there is no way in Hell to watch both at the same time. When the lathe is in "power feed" mode, those numbers change awfully quick. The first pass isn't too bad, because there is no shoulder on the part being turned. By the time you get to the third pass, there is a pretty good shoulder formed on the part, so you definitely don't want to over-travel. Working with a DRO is a lot like that old-time religion.--You just got to have faith!!! That is a piece of grey cast iron in the chuck, and I'm taking 0.020" depth of cut at about 260 rpm. with a brazed carbide tool. The o.d. on that cast iron is crusty, rusty, and kind of horrible. I chuck it up in my lathe semi-tight, then use my "bump tool" to bring it to as close as I can get it to running true, then tighten the chuck up all the way. the material is larger than the bore in my spindle, so I put a center countersink in the non chuck end and then run a dead center in my tailstock chuck to assure that it doesn't come bounding out of the chuck and chase me around the room. I had that happen once, and it is a life altering event!! I leave the lathe in "power feed" until I see the last 0.100 of travel come up on the display, then kick out the power feed and finish the travel with the big wheel on the front of the apron.
(http://i307.photobucket.com/albums/nn294/BrianRupnow/IMG_0586_zpsfupfvia2.jpg) (http://s307.photobucket.com/user/BrianRupnow/media/IMG_0586_zpsfupfvia2.jpg.html)
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Hi Brian,
That is something I was wondering about on the larger (than my Sherline) lathes with the power feed - when you go to the front handwheel, how far does it travel per full turn of the handwheel? Is it fine enough that you can just use it for shorter cuts?
Chris
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Chris--In one full turn of the handwheel on the apron, the carriage moves 1.18" according to the DRO. This is a bit weird, but then again, that is almost exactly 30 mm. There appears to be 59 divisions on the wheel, and it is marked as being .020" between each mark, so that seems right.
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Brian,
My experience with a DRO is that you run it up by eye and move it by hand by the dro. Because you can't really read those numbers as they fly by. The only time I had a part chase me around the room was on a cylindrical grinder. Made a pass checked it ran it in for a finish pass, next thing I knew it hit me in the chest spinning down my arm and hand. would have been fine but for the keyway. Sharp edge on that. Never did figure why it threw it. It was during my last week at that job to.
Art
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This morning we have a cylinder. The fins are all the same width, and trust me, ---that's a good thing!!! I have a tailstock live center that is just barely large enough to act as a bull nose to prevent the outboard end of the cylinder from moving under the side pressure of cutting the fins. I always drill the center bore out before cutting fins. Start with a 3/8" drill and move up by 1/16" increments until I get to 15/16", then drill thru with a 31/32" drill, then ream to 1" finished bore. I cut the grooves between fins .094" wide x 0.345" deep using a 3/32" HSS parting off blade and the lands between grooves are .094" wide. The lathe was turning at 230 rpm. and I cut the fins almost full depth with automatic feed, except for the last .025" which I fed by hand, so as not to overshoot. Although it made a Hell of a racket it got the job done right smartly.
(http://i307.photobucket.com/albums/nn294/BrianRupnow/IMG_0589_zpsp3xm8ui7.jpg) (http://s307.photobucket.com/user/BrianRupnow/media/IMG_0589_zpsp3xm8ui7.jpg.html)
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I have a question, and it's a hard one. Fortunately, I also have the answer to the question. On a cylinder like the one in the drawing, after you have tapped the four holes in one end, how the heck do you turn it around and put the tapped holes in the other end in the same rotational orientation? This is almost impossible to do.-------Unless-----You have a rectangular plate that bolts onto the other end. If you do, you make the rectangular plate, bolt it onto the first set of holes in the cylinder, then hold the plate in the vice so you can tap the holes in the other end of the cylinder, with assurance that the second set of holes really will be aligned rotationally with the first set of holes!!
(http://i307.photobucket.com/albums/nn294/BrianRupnow/CYLINDER-OVERHEAD%20CAM_zpsc3fw4z2t.jpg) (http://s307.photobucket.com/user/BrianRupnow/media/CYLINDER-OVERHEAD%20CAM_zpsc3fw4z2t.jpg.html)
(http://i307.photobucket.com/albums/nn294/BrianRupnow/IMG_0592_zpspq8lgjsy.jpg) (http://s307.photobucket.com/user/BrianRupnow/media/IMG_0592_zpspq8lgjsy.jpg.html)
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Why bother making a plate.
Drill and tap the top set of holes, screw the already made head onto the cylinder and then hold the two by the cyliner head using the flat faces of the head to line up the cylinder so you can drill the bottom set.
Or put two studs into opposed holes in one end and line them up to do the other end if you don't heav a head or need teh plate for lower down in the engine
Third option is to make the cylinder and plate all as one from a block of CI then you only need to drill one end anyway
Simples
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Jason--I had to make the plate anyways. It is part of the engine. Regardless of whether you bolt the head on first or bolt the plate on first, you need to have something bolted onto one end to align the part for tapping the holes in the other end.---Brian
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News is not good. The company in North Carolina that sold me timing belts and pulleys 5 years ago mailed them to me. Now they say they can no longer mail things to Canada, and that they want a $50 courier fee for $25 worth of parts.---plus tax---plus customs fee---plus difference in Canadian and USA dollars. I was ready to eat the difference in Canadian/American dollars, but this is a bit too much like robbery for my taste. I'm now trying to source the pulleys and belt from a Canadian supplier.
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Pullies should not be too hard to mill the teeth on yourself which would only leave the belt to source.
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That's just amazing. I could see where a company might choose not to mail to Canada (??) but to say they can't...??? Has there been some change in regulations??? That's just maddening!! :Mad:
Engine's looking really nice, Brian. Can't wait to see it run!
Pete
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I think I'm going to have to do something to keep those yellow "lifters" from rotating. Ordinarily, you would want them to rotate a bit each time the cam lobe "wiped' across the top of them to equalize any long term wear pattern. In this case however, if they rotated it would make the valve rotate----and we don't want that. Valves like to settle into one spot and stay there, and that is where they will "wear in" a seating position and seal tighter than a ducks butt. If they rotate a bit with every "wipe" of the cam lobe, then they are going to not seal consistently and will probably quickly wear away the valve seat area on the valve cage.
(http://i307.photobucket.com/albums/nn294/BrianRupnow/VIEW%20AT%20TOP%20OF%20CAM%20TOWERS_zpsgqy238wj.jpg) (http://s307.photobucket.com/user/BrianRupnow/media/VIEW%20AT%20TOP%20OF%20CAM%20TOWERS_zpsgqy238wj.jpg.html)
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No, no, no... valves should rotate while operating. For years many engines had a separate valve rotator mechanism to make sure they did turn a bit each stroke.
This all depends on a few things though: concentricity between the valve seat and valve guide, and concentricity between the valve stem and the seat on the lip. Without that, rotation will cause problems. But then you'll have problems anyway.
That's my two cents worth anyway....
Pete
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Surely there is somewhere in Canada that can supply belts and pulleys, I'm quite sure that they are even available in NZ. It seems as if it is getting harder to buy things these days.
Ian S C
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Hi Pete,
I think what you're referring to is lifters should rotate. A valve operated by a rocker arm and pushrod won't rotate.
gbritnell
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Brian, the TSME web site (http://tsme.ca)has a Suppliers link, the pdf file contains a lot of local southern Ontario suppliers. There are several belt suppliers listed.
Also not sure if Stock Drive/ (https://shop.sdp-si.com/catalog) has the same policy or not. Too often the suppliers take the lazy way out by not shipping, or use UPS.
If you are still stuck, please PM me.
Gerrit
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That's just amazing. I could see where a company might choose not to mail to Canada (??) but to say they can't...??? Has there been some change in regulations??? That's just maddening!! :Mad:
Engine's looking really nice, Brian. Can't wait to see it run!
Pete
There are a LOT of export regulations in US. I get 20 questions every time I order electronic parts, even from Canadian distributor of US company.
Gerrit
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Hi Pete,
I think what you're referring to is lifters should rotate. A valve operated by a rocker arm and pushrod won't rotate.
gbritnell
George.
"A valve operated by a rocker arm and pushrod won't rotate."
On some larger engines with rockers/pushrods they use rotatorcaps " valvepsring- keapers" for having the valves rotate. ;)
CS
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George, I remember back in the '60s we had a couple of car engines that had valve rotators in them. I'm sorry I can't remember make or model (I think one was a '50 Chev. 6 cyl in the pick up).
Gettin' too close to 70 and the memory isn't what it used to be....
Pete
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After an extensive internet search, I find that there is a lot of contradictory information as to whether or not valves should or shouldn't rotate in an internal combustion engine. Some say no, they shouldn't rotate at all. Some say, yes, they should be forced to rotate fractionally with every cycle to even out wear on the seat. Some say they should not be restrained and allowed to rotate if they "want to". I am in agreement with the "not rotate at all" crowd. I have revamped my design a little bit up at the top of the valves, primarily to keep the yellow "lifters" from exerting any "torque" to the valves through tight clearances. They will still contact the very end of the valve stem, and it's possible that they might try and impart some turning force on the stem thru that end contact, but I'm willing to take a chance and find out. There is a world of design in that tiny area at the top of the valves.
(http://i307.photobucket.com/albums/nn294/BrianRupnow/BLOW%20UP%20OF%20VALVE%20AREA_zpsisl6yfbq.jpg) (http://s307.photobucket.com/user/BrianRupnow/media/BLOW%20UP%20OF%20VALVE%20AREA_zpsisl6yfbq.jpg.html)
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Brian do you have any way of ensuring the valve go back into the engine in exactly the same radial position should you have to take them out at any time. Don't remember you having done this on any of your other engines either?
I'm for allowing them to rotate if they want to, after all we seat them by rotating them rather than hammering them home.
If you want to reduce the risk of them being turned why not stop the green collor just short of the end of the valve stem so there is less metal in contact with the follower
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Jason--I have never given this a lot of thought. There is really nothing on my engines that encourages the valves to rotate.---Then again, there is nothing to stop them from rotating. True, we lap the valves into the seats by rotating them with some compound. However, once the engine starts to run, it actually does "pound the valves down into the seats" every time the cylinder fires. That is why valves seal so much better after the engine has been running for the first 5 or 10 minutes. I do agree that a slight angle or crown on the end of the valve stem will help to prevent any torque from the end of the lifter being transferred to the valve stem.---Brian
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After much phoning around and hair pulling, I found a company in USA that would mail parts to Canada rather than ship via courier. This is much more economical, but there is a catch. Their pulleys and belts at $46 American look the same as the other companies parts which were $17 American. So, being grateful that God made me rich instead of good looking, I ordered them anyways.
http://sdp-si.com/
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On topic, off topic: wonder if any of this has to do with the new administration? And NO, I'm not getting political. I was going to order some springs from Ca. and the springs were $2.67 and shipping was $4.97. :lolb:
Cletus
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Brian,
re: valve rotation.
The valve is unlikely to rotate given the friction between spring , seats and valve on any engine. What is important is that the cam follower rotates to spread any wear over the surface.
Bill
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I had some visitors drop by this afternoon while I was running my milling machine. My machine shop window looks out into our back yard, and these guys all marched right by about 2 foot outside the window. There were 18 wild turkeys, who troop over to my backyard once a day to check out what has fallen from my bird feeder. Of course, by the time I shut down the mill and hunted up my camera, the parade past my window was finished, but I did get one close up, and some of the rest as they were marching back into the woods. What a treat!! My goodness, they are big birds!!
(http://i307.photobucket.com/albums/nn294/BrianRupnow/IMG_0593_zpssxkjj2lk.jpg) (http://s307.photobucket.com/user/BrianRupnow/media/IMG_0593_zpssxkjj2lk.jpg.html)
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Great pictures of your shop elve's pet turkeys!
My last office at Kodak was on the ground floor of a smaller building in an office park, and around dawn the turkeys would often come out of the nearby woods and wander around our lawn. Sometimes they would see their reflection in my window, and come up and peck at it. Very cool to see them so close.
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Brian Can you PM me or post the name of the $17 company? I am in need of some belts and possibly pulleys.
Gerrit
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Gerrit--the company was SIT-Indeva in North carolina
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And here we have the great horned beast of legend---Well, not really, but those cylinder towers certainly give things a different flavour!! The flanged ball bearings are a nice snug fit into 3/8" reamed holes in the towers, and have a 1/4" I.D. for the cam shaft to ride in.(http://i307.photobucket.com/albums/nn294/BrianRupnow/IMG_0600_zpsxvuacmaj.jpg) (http://s307.photobucket.com/user/BrianRupnow/media/IMG_0600_zpsxvuacmaj.jpg.html)
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We have valve cages, all finished and installed except for the seat area which will get done later, and the hole thru the side from intake and exhaust, which will be drilled thru both the cylinder head and the valve cage after the 620 Loctite they are coated with sets up for 24 hours. One was a fairly easy press into place with my two ton arbor press. The other was a harder press, and made it all the way home except for the last .035", which simply wasn't going to go in any farther. This was cause to get out my 5 pound hammer, a piece of brass to use for a drift, and a step over to my anvil. Two good whacks, and it went all the way home. Maybe if I machine things for another 20 years I'll get this press fit business sorted out.
(http://i307.photobucket.com/albums/nn294/BrianRupnow/IMG_0601_zpseu8dbx5t.jpg) (http://s307.photobucket.com/user/BrianRupnow/media/IMG_0601_zpseu8dbx5t.jpg.html)
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I guess the question now is "What do I do next." I realized when I designed this engine and valve train that there is no allowance in the design for adjusting the valve lash. That's okay on a "one of" engine, it just takes a bit more time. The secret to adjustment is all in the yellow "lifters". They must be made to a very precise length.---Actually it is a case of making them a length to suit everything else. So, I make the cams and install them on the shaft. I make the valves, lap them, and install them in the cylinder head. Then, making certain that the valves are seated properly in their cages, I measure the distance from the end of the valve stem to the "low" side of the cam. This resultant measurement will give the length from the inside bottom of the lifter which bears against the end of the valve stem to the face of the cam. Then I take about 0.006" from that measurement and subtract it from what I measured to give the appropriate amount of valve lash, and make the lifter to that exact length. This is more work than just turning a screw to set the valve lash, but it allows me to use relatively short "towers" above the cylinder head.
(http://i307.photobucket.com/albums/nn294/BrianRupnow/BLOW%20UP%20OF%20VALVE%20AREA_zpsisl6yfbq.jpg) (http://s307.photobucket.com/user/BrianRupnow/media/BLOW%20UP%20OF%20VALVE%20AREA_zpsisl6yfbq.jpg.html)
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Hi, That is what they have in my BMW R69 !! btw........good stuff going on here
Willbert.
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Thank you Willbert.--I'm always glad when people drop by and say Hi. I hope you enjoy watching the build.---Brian
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After what seemed like a lot of time today I have managed to make cam #1. It is made from 01 drill rod, and after the set screw holes are tapped into the hub, it will be flame hardened. I made it the way I had outlined in my thread "An easy way to make a cam" but this time I ran the mill in it's conventional direction instead of reverse. Of course this meant that I had to spend an unconscionably long time finding a boring bar that would fit in my boring head, and grind up a cutter from HSS to work for this application. Since this method has the cutter turned to cut from the outside in, none of my brazed carbide tools would work. I spent longer trying to get a cutter and holder sorted out than it took to cut the cam. The cam isn't 100% because of cutter deflection, etcetera, but it's damned close. I will use it and if it works, great. If it doesn't work properly, I will make another.---Life was a lot simpler before people told me that cutting a cam with the mill running in reverse might unscrew the shank of my boring head!!
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Brian,
I hate to rain on your parade but I've used my Criterion boring head for 15 years. The only attention I have ever paid was the direction the cutter needed to turn. :mischief: It has never threatened to come off. Although I wouldn't want to remove the shank to put the Tormach tooling shank on it.
Art
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Art--You're not raining on my parade at all. Do you ever run your mill in reverse and turn the cutter 180 degrees to what it normally would be, so you can cut from the outside towards the inside, instead of the way a boring head is normally used? That is the situation where everyone warned me that the head could unscrew from the shank. I have never experienced that, but I haven't cut many cams that way. As soon as I posted about doing it that way people started warning me about the head unscrewing. Just between you and me, it was a lot easier doing it by running the mill backwards and turning a brazed carbide around 180 degrees than what I did today.
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Having a boring head that is a dead ringer for Brian's imported one that unscrewed the first time I ran it in reverse I thought I would let Brian know that it may unscrew if run backwards particularly with the interrupted cut of cam machining.
J
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Brian, it might be a bit too small to do, but a little(3hp) Kawasaki motor I have uses shims under the caps on top of the valves to adjust them.
Ian S C
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You can call me Two-cam-Sam!! There are a few things going on in this picture. The cam I machined yesterday just wasn't going to do it. I used the cobbled together boring tool on the left in my boring head to make yesterdays cam, and due to the long skinny shank it deflected enough that the cam surfaces were all slightly tapered. ------So, I made a new heavier, shorter boring tool with a newly ground HSS cutter in it, and made two new cams today. No deflection, and the new cams came out very accurately with no visible taper on the outer diameter. And yes people, the boring head would have unscrewed from the shank if I had been running the mill in reverse. The cams I had made prior to this, using the "boring head method" were mainly from brass, and presented no real challenge to the boring tool. These guys however, are made from 01 drill rod, and it was definitely a "thumping old time" cutting them. I'm glad that someone pointed out the error of my ways, and that I didn't suffer a catastrophe with the boring head coming unscrewed.
(http://i307.photobucket.com/albums/nn294/BrianRupnow/IMG_0604_zpsb57ftp7u.jpg) (http://s307.photobucket.com/user/BrianRupnow/media/IMG_0604_zpsb57ftp7u.jpg.html)
(http://i307.photobucket.com/albums/nn294/BrianRupnow/BORING%20HEAD-FULL%20ASSEMBLY_zpszqdiryqk.jpg) (http://s307.photobucket.com/user/BrianRupnow/media/BORING%20HEAD-FULL%20ASSEMBLY_zpszqdiryqk.jpg.html)
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All the 'direct' OHC engines I have worked on have used shims on top of the valve to set the clearance. These are usually hardened and ground 'pucks' but for this engine normal shimstock will probably work. If they wear the valve clearance will be increased which is better than being reduced and losing compression/burning valves.
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Brian, it might be a bit too small to do, but a little(3hp) Kawasaki motor I have uses shims under the caps on top of the valves to adjust them.
Ian S C
I'm not ignoring you Ian. I hope I don't have to resort to shims, because I have very little room for them. I think about 1/4" diameter. However, they could probably be punched out of shim stock with a paper punch if I have to.---Brian
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This is a rare picture of a valve being born!! I turn the small diameter down in three 1/2" long stages, aiming for about .002" larger in diameter than the targeted 0.125". This avoids the issues with deflection that would come up if you tried to turn the entire 1.5" length all at once. Then, using the cylinder head with the valve cages reamed to size as a "try it and see if it fits" guide, I remove the remaining material with 220 grit garnet cloth strips as the lathe is running. When the valve shank just fits into the valve cage reamed hole for it's full length, that part is finished. I set the topslide over to give me a 92 degree included angle on the valve, and then very carefully cut the valve face. I will now cut off the valve from the parent stock with about 2" of the parent stock remaining, which gives me a "handle" to hold and spin by hand while I lap the valve into the seat in the valve cage. The valve stem is unusually long because of the type of engine it is going to be used in, but 2/3 of that length will be guided, so I'm not real concerned about it bending. the valve is made from common 1018 steel.
(http://i307.photobucket.com/albums/nn294/BrianRupnow/IMG_0606_zpslq09yxht.jpg) (http://s307.photobucket.com/user/BrianRupnow/media/IMG_0606_zpslq09yxht.jpg.html)
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Great design. I will have this engine and the one published in HSM on my bucket list.
Thanks for sharing your know-how and talents with us
Mike
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Thank You, Mnay. I am always happy to hear from other folks who are watching my build thread. I am far from being one of the "great builders" that inhabit these forums, but I do get into some interesting stuff.---Brian
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Both valves are machined, lapped into their seats, and cut to length. I machined a piece of bronze for the bridge that the "lifters" slide in, although I haven't cut it to length nor tapered the sides yet to match the cam towers. I bought a big box of assorted springs at a hardware store two weeks ago, and have found what I think should be a good spring (it's setting on one of the valve stems in the picture). The spring is 0.215" outside diameter x 0.020" diameter wire. I think I will buy a 7/32" (0.219") endmill and put a .050" deep pocket in the top of each valve cage to keep the spring centered. I will probably modify the "spring keeper" that is pinned to the end of each valve stem to keep them centered at the top end as well. When I rotate the cams thru 360 degrees, they clear the top of the bronze, which is great.--That's the way I planned it, but it it's always nice to have your design confirmed in metal. Tomorrow I have to go down to western Ontario to present a new proprietary automation design to a customer, so I may not get back to the engine until Saturday.
(http://i307.photobucket.com/albums/nn294/BrianRupnow/IMG_0609_zps8wamjmel.jpg) (http://s307.photobucket.com/user/BrianRupnow/media/IMG_0609_zps8wamjmel.jpg.html)
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It's been a busy day!! I got up early this morning and mushed my Huskies down to Ingersoll, Ontario for a design review of a project I have been working on. Had a 1 hour meeting with a bunch of "suits" and then turned around and drove home. I'm getting too old for this s$%t but Find it hard to turn down the money. When I got home I made the "keepers" that hold the springs on the valves, cross drilled the keepers and the valve stems with a 1 mm drill (You can see the 1 mm drills in there as temporary "pins). I machined pockets into the tops of the valve cages to act as "locators" for the springs, and assembled the valves, springs and keepers. I also drilled and tapped the cams for two #6-32 set screws each. I had to get this far so I can measure between the ends of the valve stems and the flat part of the cams so I will know how long to make the yellow pieces I refer to as "lifters". I have a "theoretical" length in my model, but due to stack up of tolerances the actual measurement is going to be a bit different than the 'theoretical". Not a big difference really, only about .013", but when the valve lash is only 0.006" to 0.008", you have to get it right.
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Today after work, I made a pair of "lifters" out of 01 drill rod. They aren't real pretty, but they are dimensionally accurate. Since I don't have the bronze "bridge" that they fit into yet, I reamed a 3/8" hole in a piece of brass scrap, and turned the outer diameter to a snug "sliding fit".--Well, that's a lie.--I made them from 3/8" drill rod, which is so close to being a full 3/8" in diameter that it won't fit into a reamed 3/8" hole. I used #240 grit garnet cloth strips and "sanded" the piece of 3/8" drill rod in the lathe until it was a snug sliding fit into the reamed hole. Snug is good. If they are a bit tight in the bridge after I heat treat them, a bit of 600 grit compound will fix that in short order. The flat end is in contact with the cam. The hollow end fits down over top of the valve stem and spring keeper. Much careful measuring was done before I arrived at numbers that fit my particular situation. I haven't drilled the inlet nor the exhaust passages in the head and valve cages yet, so the valves will be removed, the drilling and tapping of passages completed, and then a complete assembly including the yet to be made bronze bridge will be set up to check clearances before hardening the cams and lifters.
(http://i307.photobucket.com/albums/nn294/BrianRupnow/IMG_0614_zps0bgcx4d2.jpg) (http://s307.photobucket.com/user/BrianRupnow/media/IMG_0614_zps0bgcx4d2.jpg.html)
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Look what showed up at my house today. I'm impressed, they look great, but it makes me crazy that something that started out in USA for $46 ends up costing me $106 Canadian funds by the time it gets to my house.
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This is a short video showing the operation of the overhead valve train in operation. Please let me know if you can see it okay.--Brian
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KgNTsMqnWvc
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Hi Brain,
Looks good! I was beginning to wonder if anything was going to happen as your hands done appear for approx. 40 seconds. Guess you have to get out from behind the camera!
Cheers Kerrin
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Look what showed up at my house today. I'm impressed, they look great, but it makes me crazy that something that started out in USA for $46 ends up costing me $106 Canadian funds by the time it gets to my house.
Did customs add charges or was it UPS?
My offer still stands :-)
Gerrit
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One trick that might be useful on final clearance setup for the valves: On Ferrari 308 series V8's the shim is in a recess on top of the cup. There is a special tool to depress the valve cup so you can pop the shim out.
The shims were of course hardened.
Gerrit
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Look what showed up at my house today. I'm impressed, they look great, but it makes me crazy that something that started out in USA for $46 ends up costing me $106 Canadian funds by the time it gets to my house.
Did customs add charges or was it UPS?
My offer still stands :-)
Gerrit
The cost of the parts was $47 American. They charged $30 American to mail it. The rest was the difference between the American and Canadian dollar.
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I discovered this morning that I didn't have any 5/8" diameter brass to build an exhaust from. Lots of 1018 round steel 'shorts" though, so that's what I have for a muffler. I need to sand the o.d. a bit more to get any tooling marks out, but it's another part done. The carb I will be using with the correct adapter is also "posed" in the picture. The ports are drilled and tapped into the head and thru the valve cages, and the cams and cam followers will be heat treated later today.
(http://i307.photobucket.com/albums/nn294/BrianRupnow/IMG_0618_zpsprmxgzfl.jpg) (http://s307.photobucket.com/user/BrianRupnow/media/IMG_0618_zpsprmxgzfl.jpg.html)
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Well, the cams are in the oven---Kinda sounds like the beginning of a song, doesn't it!! I heated the cams and the cam followers to a orange/ red (Had a piece of coat hanger wire thru the cams so I could manage them without flame hardening my fingers.) The followers have no thru hole, so they were supported by a "hook" in the end of another piece of coat hanger wire. I don't like to get things like this too hot. If you burn them (which is very easy to do with oxy acetylene) they are ruined. At what I thought was the right temperature they were lowered into a soda can of #30 motor oil and swished around. after they cooled, I pre-heated good wifes kitchen oven to 400 degrees and set them in an old cake pan, where they are quietly spending the next hour heat-soaking. At the last minute, after they were in the oven, I had a moment of self doubt--"Was that piece I cut thing out of really 01??--So, I grabbed the piece of material I had cut them from, ran out to the shop, heated the end of the rod and swished it around in the same oil till it cooled off. Then, back into the machine shop for the "file test". Yep, harder than the devil's horn!!! Now I have to go turn on the vent fan over the stove, before I stink up the house too much and lose my kitchen privileges.
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I can't really tell what the 1 hour heat soaking at 400 degrees has done to the material, but the quenching in oil has certainly turned them black. Funny, they don't look as black in the picture as they do in reality. The piece of material that I hardened the end of to check and make sure it was really 01 material is undergoing it's own 1 hour heat soak right now. When it is finished, and cools off, I will re-try it with my file to see if I detect any difference.
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Looking great Brian!
As I understand it, the 400F heat soak after hardening is to temper the metal, removing the brittleness, so you shouldn't notice any difference in the file test. At least that is how I learned it for clock pivots.
:popcorn:
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I'm happy to report that my home-grown heat treat and tempering has come out very well. This is my "test and control" piece, which was heated to orange/red with oxy acetylene, quenched in oil, then heat-soaked in my kitchen oven for 1 hour at 400 degrees. Before the heat soak (tempering), a file just skated off with no cutting visible at all. After the heat soak, a file will cut it, as you can see, but it is still really hard. Without more scientific means to test what I have accomplished, I believe I can say this was a successful outcome.
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Yep, I think it's safe to say that your heat treat worked out well. I like it when a guy grabs something by the scruff and makes it happen!! I'd like to make a suggestion for next time. After hardening, before tempering, clean the parts back to bright steel color.
That way you'll be able to see the tempering color which, if you compare the color to a chart, will tell you the temperature of tempering. If you do that you'll develop a feel for the colors and will be able to temper parts without an oven.
I really want to see the cams turn when this engine runs!
Pete
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Good progress :ThumbsUp: :ThumbsUp: :wine1:
Proper heat treating like gear cutting is on my things to learn list :headscratch:
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One thing I've always wondered about, is determining when you need to draw the temper and when you can just leave it glass hard. Seems to me on something like a cam or other application where there's no impact or real high bending force you could just leave it completely hard?
Chuck
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A silver steel (drill rod) cam Loctited to the shaft would almost certainly be OK left hard, but Brian's are fixed with a grubscrew, and with no tempering they would be far too brittle. Tightening the screw would be likely to shatter them, or at the very least crumble the threads. Same would go for a roll-pin fixing. Tempering to about 400°F massively increases the toughness for little loss of hardness. At that temperature, there is no noticeable colour change (and I would still not want to be heavy handed with those grubscrews). Loctited, glass-hard cams and glass hard tappets are what I am using for my current project.
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After making my cams using the "quick and nasty" method in the vertical mill, I was curious about how closely the milled profile matched the actual design drawing, which asked for 125 degrees of cam influence. (that is the number of degrees that the cam actually is lifting the cam follower.) Since there is a 1:2 ratio between the camshaft and crankshaft, that translates to 250 degrees of influence on the valve during one full rotation of the crankshaft. Which is fine.--The exhaust valve begins to open 50 degrees before bottom dead center, remains open thru a full 180 degrees of movement from bottom dead center to top dead center, then closes completely about 20 degrees into the intake stroke. I thought up all kinds of wild schemes on how to measure the angularity of my cams (they actually turned out "spot on" dimensionally.) I ended up doing what you see in the picture, which is extra neat because I didn't have to make anything. I have an old change gear with a hub in it which has a 1/4" bore, that is used for the automatic carriage feed on my model sawmill. I put it and one of the cams on a piece of 1/4" shaft and put it in the chuck of my lathe. I then took my dedicated dial indicator with a flat "foot' on it which I use for setting up my four jaw chuck and set the "foot" against the cam. I stacked up some 1 2 3 blocks and some parallels to be the same height as the center of the chuck. Then turning the chuck by hand, I could see very clearly when the lobe on the cam started to affect the dial indicator, and put a mark on the gear face at the top of my stack of blocks. Then I turned the chuck by hand in the opposite direction until I seen the dial indicator needle start to move again, and scribed another line. The angular separation between the two marks was then measured with a drafting protractor. This yielded 103 degrees instead of 125 degrees, but that's okay. At 206 degrees of influence on the valves, I will begin to open the exhaust valve 20 degrees before bottom dead center, stay open thru 180 degrees, and close 6 degrees after top dead center. My aim was not to have a high revving engine, so for a low revving engine this should work just fine.
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When I have checked my cams I have always found the duration and lift to be slightly less than planned. I assume that this is a result of the final smoothing to get rid of the maching steps.
On the last camshaft I made I tried relieving the base circle to compensate for the valve clearance as suggested on MEN.
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One thing I've always wondered about, is determining when you need to draw the temper and when you can just leave it glass hard. Seems to me on something like a cam or other application where there's no impact or real high bending force you could just leave it completely hard?
Chuck
Chuck--you may be right. I did shatter a cam that was hardened but not tempered, but I was trying to force it onto a shaft that was about .0005" too large when it happened. I have heard about tempering before, but never actually tried it. Seeing that it didn't cost me anything but a bit of electricity to run my kitchen oven, I gave it a try just to see what would happen.---Brian
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I remember once upon a time, back in the early seventies, a young snotty nosed kid was sent to the parts department in the local Ford dealership to get a cam for a solid lift Boss 302. The poor kid dropped it and wound up with two four cylinder cams. Now I am not saying who that kid was :thinking: :lolb:
Cletus
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The cylinder head assembly is all back together, and everything fits. Non of the parts I hardened or heat treated changed shape in any significant way. I have just had one of those "King Midas in reverse" afternoons, where everything I touched turned to poop!!! There is a thin brass spacer between the cams and the flanged bearing on each side to keep things positioned properly. I hunted around in my precious metals (brass and bronze) bin and found a very short piece of 3/4" brass that should have worked. First I made them too big around, matching the cam tower diameter, and not the flange bearing. Then I drilled the hole in the center undersize--(drill was in the wrong spot in the drill index.) Then I mounted them on a stub arbor to reduce the diameter and they ended up radically unconcentric with the center hole. Then I said something nasty, threw them in the waste box, and started over again with a new piece of brass. At that point I decided I better quit for the day, so I detailed the piston and con rod. I don't often have afternoons like this, but when I do it really makes me appreciate the days when things go right!!!
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Brian,
It's good to see your progress. When I did my own heat treating, my tool & die friend looked at me with a :facepalm: look. Then says give me the parts & what material they are & I'll do it right. That was the rollers, lifters and pins for the Val valve train.
Art
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This morning I have a piston on the go. It is going to be made from cast iron. Why?---Because when I buy cast iron to make cylinders from, I always buy a piece about 3" longer than I really need, so I have something to hang onto with the lathe chuck while the cylinder is being machined. All these left over bits from making cylinders eventually get recycled into pistons. I could have use aluminum and it would have worked just as well, but I didn't have any aluminum the right size. The outside diameter is turned to be 0.003" larger than the bore of the cylinder. That over-size will get addressed a bit later. I have put the round counterbore into the "open" end of the piston, and cut the ring groove with my .094" wide parting off tool. My next step will be to hone the inner bore of the cylinder with my 3 stone brake cylinder hone to knock down any high spots inside the bore (which was put in with a 1" reamer). Then I will "dress" the piston with 280 grit carborundum paper strips while it is still set up in the lathe until it just starts to act like it might fit into the end of the cylinder, but doesn't slide freely in. At that point I will remove the piston from the lathe and set it up in the chuck on my rotary table to complete the machining operations.
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Remember how I said that you just want the piston to start into the cylinder, but not slide all the way in. All of the other machining operations are then finished on the piston, and my "special tool" which has a wrist pin sized cross hole in the end is slid into the piston, a dummy wrist pin is pushed into place and locked there with the wrist pin retaining screws. The piston is then coated with green diamond lapping compound, and then the piston is "wrung" into the cylinder in a sliding, twisting motion. I always find that this part is much harder and takes longer than I think it will. After an hour of pushing and twisting, and occasionally having to run out to the arbor press to get the piston "unstuck", the piston will go all of the way thru the cylinder, and is virtually an air tight seal. It would probably run this way with no ring on the piston at all. I will now wash the inside of the cylinder and the outside of the piston with laquer thinners and an old toothbrush to remove any remaining diamond compound, and move on to machining a connecting rod.
(http://i307.photobucket.com/albums/nn294/BrianRupnow/IMG_0627_zpscleroz5s.jpg) (http://s307.photobucket.com/user/BrianRupnow/media/IMG_0627_zpscleroz5s.jpg.html)
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Brian, you say 'green diamond lapping compound' do you have any details, grade etc?
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The label says "5GM GREEN DIAMOND LAPPING COMPOUND" 1-6405-014. It comes in a small container like a hypodermic needle without the needle. I first bought it when I built the low speed 2 cycle engine.
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I have some simaler lapping compound, also in hypo like dispenser, that I got many years ago for sharpening my carving chisels and plane blades. It has really (un)helpful grade labeling like 'fine' and 'coarse'. Seems like the makers have not agreed on grit names, as I recall the catalogs gave the details like micron size of the particles. It takes very little so the dispenser lasts a really long time. Some of the woodworking catalogs have started carrying it in thier sharpening sections.
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Thank you, I asked because I have a set of different grades in different colours from a UK supplier:
http://www.arceurotrade.co.uk/Catalogue/Diamond-Tools/Diamond-Lapping-Paste-2
I have been using the coarse grade, W40, for lapping cylinders and the fine grades W1.0 and W0.5 for lapping my fuel injection components. I was wondering if there was a 'standard' colour code :headscratch:
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Roger, I really don't know. Sorry.----Brian
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No problem :) my Asperger's mind tends, usually unsuccessfully, to hope for some kind of standardisation/consistency :headscratch: Enjoying your builds as ever :ThumbsUp: :ThumbsUp: :wine1:
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I had almost finished this connecting rod yesterday, but after almost 12 hours in the shop I was quite happy to quit for the day when my wife got home at 7:45 from her job. Today I did the final clean-up and fettling on it and it is finished. The picture shows it setting with two tiny sealed ball bearings in the wrist pin end, and an oilite bronze bushing in the crankshaft end. My hands are sore today from wringing the piston into the cylinder yesterday.
(http://i307.photobucket.com/albums/nn294/BrianRupnow/IMG_0631_zpshuctmxyt.jpg) (http://s307.photobucket.com/user/BrianRupnow/media/IMG_0631_zpshuctmxyt.jpg.html)
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This build is quite interesting, Brian. :popcorn:
A couple of general comments:
- If you never (or almost never) expect to remove the boring head from its shank, why not Loctite it on? I'd think that you would need heat to unscrew it then.
- Industrial heat treating generally specifies a hardness measure. With multiple parts all the same, the maker can try different heating and quenching cycles until the hardness test comes out as specified. With one of our engines, it's kind of like, well, "Make it hard but not too hard." I think that means make the part replaceable so if it fails you can try, try again. :wallbang:
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Today I made crankshaft webs. I didn't originally plan on having counterweighted webs, but the weight of that cast iron piston really surprised me. I have been making pistons from aluminum for so long that I forgot how heavy a cast iron piston could be. I decided that this engine would need counterweights to offset the weight of the piston. The webs are made from 5/16" 1018 flat bar. I didn't realize it when I designed this engine, but 5/16" flatbar is not something commonly stocked by Barrie Welding where I buy most of my material. I ended up getting 3/8" flatbar and flycutting 1/32" from both sides to keep it from warping. Three of the holes are reamed to 0.3735", and one is drilled to 5/16". I will make the crankshaft from 01 drill rod, not because it has to be hardened, but because drill rod comes in at on size to .0005" over, while cold rolled 1018 comes in .0005" undersize. When you are pressing crankshafts together instead of machining from solid, that .001" difference between drill rod and plain cold rolled rod makes a big difference on how well the crankshaft stays together. The rod journal will be machined from 3/8" drill rod, and pressed into the driver side web. The main body of the journal that the rod sets on will be turned to 0.3125". This is going to be a two piece crankshaft, with a driver side and a driven side. The end of the rod journal that fits into the 5/16" drilled hole in the driven side web is a clearance fit.
(http://i307.photobucket.com/albums/nn294/BrianRupnow/IMG_0632_zpsmqunno9x.jpg) (http://s307.photobucket.com/user/BrianRupnow/media/IMG_0632_zpsmqunno9x.jpg.html)
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Houston, we have a ---crankshaft!!! One thing to be aware of when using drill rod for crankshafts. Since it is .0005" oversize, it won't fit thru the 3/8" ball bearings. The trick here is to determine exactly how much of the shaft must go thru the bearings (in my case, all of the shaft that isn't pressed into the webs), put it in the lathe, and work it down over its full length with 220 grit carborundum cloth strips. This is not hard to do, it's just time intensive and requires a lot of "Stop the lathe and try the bearing to see if it fits onto the shaft yet". The end of the shaft which is getting pressed into a 5/16" web plate is left 15/16" long, and not touched with the carborundum cloth. Turn down 5/16" of length at the end to .372". Then turn the next 5/16" down to 0.374". Use a thin strip of carborundum cloth to smooth the shoulder which results being 3 different diameters. Clean the parts which get pressed together with laquer thinners and a Q tip. The press fit is going to be more than a 2 ton arbor press is going to be able to handle. This pressing gets done in my big shop vice. You need a hollow socket or something to accommodate the part of the shaft which has been turned undersize because it is going to "stick thru" about 5/8" on the wrong side of the web when the pressing is completed. coat all the areas of the shaft which are going to be pressed with 620 Loctite, and have at it. After the shaft has moved about half way home, loosen of the vice in case things are going a bit crooked, then take it the rest of the way home. this is a very hard press fit. Trim the "stick thru" part with hacksaw or in the lathe, and you're done.
(http://i307.photobucket.com/albums/nn294/BrianRupnow/IMG_0634_zpsit4djlso.jpg) (http://s307.photobucket.com/user/BrianRupnow/media/IMG_0634_zpsit4djlso.jpg.html)
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There is an undefined point when a craft begins to become art. These sidepates are getting pretty close to that point. I like them a lot. I know that there is two full days of work in getting them to this stage. The engine will look a lot more balanced once the gas tank is completed and fitted to it.----Brian
(http://i307.photobucket.com/albums/nn294/BrianRupnow/IMG_0635_zpsyh93edoc.jpg) (http://s307.photobucket.com/user/BrianRupnow/media/IMG_0635_zpsyh93edoc.jpg.html)
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Brian,
It's starting to look like an engine!
Art
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This morning I finished the angle that fits between the two sideplates and forms the central body of the "crank-case". Everything went together okay, but something didn't look quite right. Finally, I realized that I had misread my own drawing of the sideplates and put the recess for the 1/4" brass inspection door about 0.4" farther down from the peak that I had intended. Oh well, no harm, no foul. I can still get at the big end of the con-rod to give it a squirt of oil, and that's really all I wanted to be able to do.
(http://i307.photobucket.com/albums/nn294/BrianRupnow/IMG_0636_zpsqcmvso8p.jpg) (http://s307.photobucket.com/user/BrianRupnow/media/IMG_0636_zpsqcmvso8p.jpg.html)
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Both bearing housings are machined and bolted up to the sideplates, and the sealed ball bearings and spacers are installed with a little skim of Loctite and an alignment rod. I like to give .001" to .002" clearance on the bearing housing bores. That lets the bearings align themselves when everything is assembled, and the alignment rod ensures that the bearings will all be lined up after the Loctite sets up. The bearing housings actually extend into the "crankcase" area, and will serve to locate the crankshaft side to side when it gets installed. at least, they would in a perfect world. I always seem to end up having to make an additional spacer/washer, or else skim a little material off to get things perfect.
(http://i307.photobucket.com/albums/nn294/BrianRupnow/IMG_0642_zpswznxj0rp.jpg) (http://s307.photobucket.com/user/BrianRupnow/media/IMG_0642_zpswznxj0rp.jpg.html)
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There isn't any particularly graceful way to mount a belt tensioning pulley on this engine, so it will be a simple ball bearing mounted on a 1/2" square piece of stock. The piece of stock will bolt to the engine sideplate.
(http://i307.photobucket.com/albums/nn294/BrianRupnow/FULL%20ASSEMBLY--OVERHEAD%20CAM%20WITH%20BELT%20TENSIONER_zps1sib5yfc.jpg) (http://s307.photobucket.com/user/BrianRupnow/media/FULL%20ASSEMBLY--OVERHEAD%20CAM%20WITH%20BELT%20TENSIONER_zps1sib5yfc.jpg.html)
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So far, the news is good. With everything reassembled, the crankshaft rotates feely, the piston goes thru it's full travel, and the con rod doesn't hang up on the bottom of the cylinder. The timing belt I ordered seems to be the correct length. Other than a mount for ignition points, a flywheel, a belt tensioner and some assorted inspection plates the engine is almost finished.
(http://i307.photobucket.com/albums/nn294/BrianRupnow/IMG_0644_zpsgnrxj1bn.jpg) (http://s307.photobucket.com/user/BrianRupnow/media/IMG_0644_zpsgnrxj1bn.jpg.html)
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Today I've made the gas tank, and I'm doing something that I haven't done for many, many years. In the pre mig days, I was an avid hotrodder, who patched up many rusted out antique car bodies. At first I used oxy acetylene torches and brazing rod, which gave fast and fairly easy results. Then, as I got into it deeper and deeper, I came to realize that the proper way to fix car bodies wasn't to braze patches over rusted metal, but was to cut the rusted metal out completely and replace it with new metal, not lap welded but butt welded with oxy acetylene and steel filler wire. I became an excellent welder using only steel welding rod, and fusion welding body metal with no filler rod at all, just melting the old metal and new metal enough to let them flow together and immediately fuse without filler rod. This is something that takes years of practice, and I became very good at it. Practice DOES make perfect!!! So---Today I welded the end caps and filler neck to the steel pipe which forms the body of the gas tank for this engine using oxy acetylene and steel filler rod. Why?--Just to see if I still could, and to avoid having a ring of braze or silver solder showing at the ends of the tank. I'm not sure yet how well this is going to work. If I end up with leaks that I can't weld shut, then I'll have to start over again on the tank.
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Well, that was ahhhh---interesting. I can still steel wire weld with oxy acetylene. I have a few minor leaks at one end. (the tank is full of water in the picture.) One thing about welding with steel wire--if you have a leak, you can go back and reweld the leak area without melting anything else out. Poor little tank looks a bit like a roasted turd!! I can do a lot of sanding and clean-up to improve the looks, but I have some heat related pitting around the filler neck that isn't going to sand out. I'll think about this overnight. If it doesn't clean up respectably, I may use a bit of bondo on the pits and paint the tank. It was fun to weld it this way, but my eyes at 70 don't enjoy looking into the melt puddle nearly as much as they did at 40.
(http://i307.photobucket.com/albums/nn294/BrianRupnow/IMG_0645_zpsi6yj4qe8.jpg) (http://s307.photobucket.com/user/BrianRupnow/media/IMG_0645_zpsi6yj4qe8.jpg.html)
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I've been chasing leaks all morning. I'm about at the point where I may take Sid's advice and try a different method. This is one of those situations where I had to "Try it and see if it worked". I'm not out any money. All the parts are scrap I had laying around. The tank body was a horrible old piece of galvanized pipe that I dug out of my scrap steel bin. If I don't achieve a leak proof tank in the next 20 minutes or so, I will buy a new piece of black steel pipe at the hardware store and silver solder the end caps and filler neck in place.
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At this point, I'm going to declare a complete and utter "FAIL" on the gas tank. The welds were fine, albeit somewhat lumpier than they were when I was doing that a lot in the 1980's. I just couldn't get ahead of the pinhole leaks. Nothing ventured, nothing gained. I did save the fancy little plate bracket that holds the tank to the engine. Later this week, I will try again with a new piece of black steel pipe from the hardware store, and brass endplates silver soldered into place. As I said before, I don't do well with soft solder.
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Still...a worthwhile experiment.
Following along Brian.
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Can you fill with a bit of epoxy rolled around inside?
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Hi Zee--nice to hear from you. Gerritv--I could have probably saved the tank, but it was getting to the point of "Just to many things wrong". I don't like to paint gas tanks, because the gas will eventually wrinkle and ruin the paint. There was some deep pitting around the filler neck from the steel wire welding, and partly due to the fact that the pipe was galvanized, I couldn't get the ends welded solid enough with no pin-holes to stop the leaking. There comes a point where you just say "Enough" and wait till another day and start over.
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I do agree that at some point it is time to do over. I have had a few items with my engine recently where the pieces are now in the offcut bin waiting to be re-purposed. :-) Sometimes my Dutch upbringing comes through and I am too stubborn to give in. Getting a bit better at controlling that.....
Gerrit
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Brian,
Glad to see progress, even though it may be the step back and a step forward. Galvanized is nasty stuff to weld in the first place, isn't it? Supposed to do in a well ventilated area and all that. I must admit to trying my hand at silver soldering for my first time on the Val gas tank. It always seemed to take more heat than I expected it to. And then I was getting the silver solder in the way to early and getting blobs of that in the way unnecessarily. Then using more heat it make the blobs go away. Fortunately I planned for that and turned the tank oversized so I could clean it up.
Art
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One thing to be aware of when using drill rod for crankshafts. Since it is .0005" oversize, it won't fit thru the 3/8" ball bearings.
So drill rod is not quite the same as Silver Steel in Europe then :headscratch: Inch sizes are bilateral toleranced and Metric sizes are nominal to undersize.
Silver Steel BS1407 Tolerance / Surface Finish:
Diameter Tolerance
< 1" ± 0.00025"
1" < 2" ± 0.0005"
< 25mm + 0/-0.015mm
25mm < 50mm + 0/-0.025mm
The surface finish is better than 25µ inch (0.6 microns) cla.
http://silver-steel.co.uk/aboutsilversteel.php
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I've been really busy with "real" work, in and out of the hospital for tests (which were okay, than God), and today I'm sick with a cold. Ah well, sometimes life sucks a little. After my gas tank fiasco, I decided to do something else on the engine. I have finished the points mounting bracket, the ignition cam, and the brass "inspection cover" which will let e open the crankcase to give a squirt of oil to the con rod big end. I still have to make and add in the filler plate that sets between the two engine sideplates above the brass inspection door.
(http://i307.photobucket.com/albums/nn294/BrianRupnow/IMG_0651_zps0hwjgqb9.jpg) (http://s307.photobucket.com/user/BrianRupnow/media/IMG_0651_zps0hwjgqb9.jpg.html)
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Glad you are ok :ThumbsUp: :ThumbsUp: These things can be really scary :(
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There is often more to a story than meets the eye!! Have you ever heard the phrase "a comedy of errors"? When I went to make my ill fated gas tank, all I had in my scrap bin was one ugly, nasty, short piece of galvanized pipe or tube, which was close to the right outside diameter---just enough oversize that a few passes on the outside to peel off the galvanizing, and it would be perfect for a gas tank. I know it is dramatic overkill, but I like the tubing I make my gas tanks from to have about a 3/16" wall thickness. Not because any particular strength is needed, but so I can put a nice little counterbore in the end of the pipe equal in depth to the material I am going to use for endplates. This gives me a "shelf" to set the endplate on while I solder or silver solder the endplate in place. The ugly, nasty piece of pipe I had would also require a few passes on the inside with a boring tool to clean the galvanizing of the inside as well. I set the pipe up in my lathe, and there was no way I could hold it in the 3 jaw so it would rotate smoothly without a big "wobble" on the outboard end. I tried different positions in the chuck, I tried turning it end for end, I even tried my "nudging" tool which is basically a ball bearing mounted to a piece of material that I can mount in the quickchange toolpost and push on the outboard end of the pipe until it "runs true" before tightening the chuck completely. Nothing worked, so screw it---I will machine the wobble out of it!! After taking multiple passes on the outer diameter, it ran true, but then it was quite obvious that the outer diameter was no longer concentric with the inner diameter.--At least at the outboard end---and, if I tried to bore the galvanizing out of the inside I would end up with a paper thin wall on one side of the pipe. With a ring of silver solder holding the endcap on the pipe, it would have been very obvious that something wouldn't look right.--So---Compounding "dumb" with "stupid", I decided to steel wire weld the ends in place, which would leave no tell-tale ring of solder. We all know how this worked out. The galvanizing on the inside of the pipe kept causing so many pin holes in the welds at my endcaps, that I had to reweld both ends numerous times to plug leaks. Eventually, I had poured so much heat into this poor, would be gastank, that it looked like a roasted turd at which point, I decided to throw in the towel. The upshot of this rant, is that today I bought a new piece of ungalvanized, unrusted tubing to make gas tanks from, and spent a chunk of the Rupnow fortune on a "Bullnose" center with bearings that fits into my lathes tailstock. If you don't know already, the purpose of a "bullnose" is to support the outboard end of a pipe being turned in the lathe. Hopefully, the next gas tank attempt will go a little better!!
(http://i307.photobucket.com/albums/nn294/BrianRupnow/IMG_0652_zps5ipcbp5u.jpg) (http://s307.photobucket.com/user/BrianRupnow/media/IMG_0652_zps5ipcbp5u.jpg.html)
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Hah!!! I knew there was a gas tank in there. All I had to do was gather up enough karma to set it free. Considerably better results this time than last time around. I am suffering from the Head cold from Hell, and should have been taking it easy today, but I couldn't rest until I had redeemed myself gas-tank wise.
(http://i307.photobucket.com/albums/nn294/BrianRupnow/IMG_0653_zps37c9jwwq.jpg) (http://s307.photobucket.com/user/BrianRupnow/media/IMG_0653_zps37c9jwwq.jpg.html)
(http://i307.photobucket.com/albums/nn294/BrianRupnow/IMG_0655_zpsnendgr27.jpg) (http://s307.photobucket.com/user/BrianRupnow/media/IMG_0655_zpsnendgr27.jpg.html)
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Mr Rupnow IS getting close. Almost all of the easy parts are made. The belt tensioner is an easy part, and I haven't made it yet. I still haven't figured out what to do for a flywheel. This has ended up being an expensive engine to build. When I include the price of the bearings, the aluminum, the pulleys and belt, the carburetor, the sparkplug, and the ignition points and condenser, we're north of $250 on this one. I might have to sell the plans for this one to recoup the cost of building it.
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Now I know where I got this crap cold from. :Lol: I am surrounded by kleenex and discovered you can close a door by sneezing.
Glad you got the gas tank!
(And remember...it's not the cost...it's the fun. Fun isn't free.)
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Hi Zee--Up until this week I was congratulating myself on how well my wife and I survived the winter with no coughs, colds, or other nasty fluey things. I have a herd of four grandchildren who seemed to take turns all winter being sick with some damned thing, and guess what---Mom and Dad have to work, work, work to keep the family fed, and what do you do with a sick kid?---You take them to grandma and grandpas for the day. Ironic thing is, I don't think I caught this from one of the grandkids. I had to go into the hospital last week for some tests, and the friggin hospital was full of people hacking and choking every which way you turned. My tests turned out fine, but I'm pretty sure I caught this at the hospital.--There has to be a moral in this somewhere----if you're not sick, don't go to the hospital!!!
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Brian,
I am happy to say that you didn't get your cold from me, I didn't even give it to my wife, no hugs n kisses either. :( The gas tank looks great & a far cry from the "roasted turd" of yorn.
Art
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We've got some tension here today---But not in a bad way. This morning I finished off the belt tensioner and mounted it to the engine. I was a little bit worried about the head gasket adding to the center to center distance of the belt pulleys, but since the head gasket is only .032" thick, it didn't really have any bad effect. So, I made a head gasket and installed it just to be sure, then made up the 1/2" square steel bracket with a 3/8" stub shaft on the end of it and used a sealed ball bearing as the actual "rolling member" that contacts the back side of the timing belt. The belt doesn't really need much tension on it. Just enough to keep it from "skipping a cog" and throwing out the valve timing.
(http://i307.photobucket.com/albums/nn294/BrianRupnow/IMG_0656_zpsif25i920.jpg) (http://s307.photobucket.com/user/BrianRupnow/media/IMG_0656_zpsif25i920.jpg.html)
(http://i307.photobucket.com/albums/nn294/BrianRupnow/IMG_0657_zps2rxownox.jpg) (http://s307.photobucket.com/user/BrianRupnow/media/IMG_0657_zps2rxownox.jpg.html)
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That looks very solid.
Gerrit
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Not long until the first trials then :)
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This whole flywheel thing is beginning to eat my lunch!! I could buy a piece of brass and make a pretty, functional flywheel, but I've done that half a dozen times. I could make a two part flywheel, with an aluminum inner hub and heavy wall pipe outer rim, but that too is something I've already done a number of times. Right now my mind keeps going to the fact that there has to be a zillion dead chainsaws and weed whackers out there kicking around in the small engine repair places. I may have to pursue that line of thought. My flywheel can be as large as 5 3/8" diameter. I have a mill. I have a lathe I should be able to modify almost anything to work. Thinking----thinking---
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Bin flowing along quietly Brian.
I love to follow how your designs evolve, and this one is evolving beautifully.
Cheers
Stew
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Hi Stew--very nice to hear from you. I came down to my shop this morning and realized that this engine is almost finished. If I get a flywheel sussed out this week, I might even have a runner.---Brian
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One very small last minute change to the "access hatch" that lets me oil the big end of the con rod. In my original plan, this was a small square brass plate held in place by neodymium magnets to allow fast removal to let me give a squirt of oil to the big end of the con rod. This all worked fine until I decided to make the filler plate which sets directly above the "access hatch" between the two main sideplates. I soon came to realize that there was really no good, simple way to do that because of all the other bolts buried in the sideplates which hold the cylinder mounting block in place. A few minutes head scratching, and I had it solved. ---Just make the lift off cover plate long enough to cover that area as well. I decided to forgo brass and make the new cover plate from aluminum, and it worked out really well. In the second picture you can see the reverse side of this cover plate, and see how much material was hogged out of the center to give clearance for the counterweights on the crankshaft web plates. You can also see the neodymium magnets attached in their respective counterbores with J.B. weld. The piece of heavy angle which forms the crank-case body has also been drilled and magnets J.B. welded into sockets in it as well, positioned to line up with those in the access hatch. (You can probably see the c-clamp and the scrap aluminum plate set in place to ensure that these magnets set below the surface of the pockets they are in on the engine.) I just did that this morning and it has to set up for 24 hours. With this final change, I have completed the engine except for the flywheel.
(http://i307.photobucket.com/albums/nn294/BrianRupnow/IMG_0658_zpsdutqpjxx.jpg) (http://s307.photobucket.com/user/BrianRupnow/media/IMG_0658_zpsdutqpjxx.jpg.html)
(http://i307.photobucket.com/albums/nn294/BrianRupnow/IMG_0659_zpsmelkgbh0.jpg) (http://s307.photobucket.com/user/BrianRupnow/media/IMG_0659_zpsmelkgbh0.jpg.html)
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On the subject of built up flywheels--This is the way I see it today. A solid steel hub, with keyway, set screws, and built in "nose" for my starter spud. Cheap, nasty, and can be made from stub ends I have left over in my shorts bin. A web made from 3/16" aluminum plate, and an outer rim cut from a section of heavy wall tubing. Wouldn't be as pretty as bronze or brass, but would be very cost effective, and lends itself very well to painting if I choose. Maybe even paint gas tank to match flywheel.
(http://i307.photobucket.com/albums/nn294/BrianRupnow/BUILT%20UP%20FLYWHEEL-2_zpsaqxzgzcm.jpg) (http://s307.photobucket.com/user/BrianRupnow/media/BUILT%20UP%20FLYWHEEL-2_zpsaqxzgzcm.jpg.html)
(http://i307.photobucket.com/albums/nn294/BrianRupnow/BUILT%20UP%20FLYWHEEL-2-EXPLODED_zps4ftmr9x6.jpg) (http://s307.photobucket.com/user/BrianRupnow/media/BUILT%20UP%20FLYWHEEL-2-EXPLODED_zps4ftmr9x6.jpg.html)
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Well Sir!!---That was worth a quick trip downtown to my metal supplier/machine shop. A nice piece of 660 bronze, 5" o.d. x 3" i.d. x 1" long out of their "cut-offs" in the bronze rack for the princely sum of $10.00. I have material here for the hub and web. all I need now is the energy to make it happen.
(http://i307.photobucket.com/albums/nn294/BrianRupnow/IMG_0660_zpsfivv0k2h.jpg) (http://s307.photobucket.com/user/BrianRupnow/media/IMG_0660_zpsfivv0k2h.jpg.html)
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Today got to see the built-up flywheel design finalized, and a good start made on the center hub. That center hub was an end of 1144 stress-proof left over from building a one piece crankshaft. My goodness, that is lovely material to work with!! I save all of my "chucking stubs" because they work great for little pieces like this. I'm finally beginning to recover from the "Head cold from Hell", so I'll probably be working on a design contract tomorrow "on site". If I have any energy left at the end of the day, i'll finish this part off and start on the "web" of the flywheel.
(http://i307.photobucket.com/albums/nn294/BrianRupnow/IMG_0663_zpsmnpr06sa.jpg) (http://s307.photobucket.com/user/BrianRupnow/media/IMG_0663_zpsmnpr06sa.jpg.html)
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Brian, I've never used 1144 steel before, just went and looked it up. Sounds like nice stuff. What is it like for corrosion? The machinability of it sounds great.
Chris
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Crueby--I don't know how it is for corrosion. My crankshafts always have a film of oil on them, so they don't rust. That stub that I just made the flywheel hub from has sat around my shop for 1 or 2 years and had no corrosion on it. I have heard bad things about either 1144 stress proof or 12L14 steel in terms of corrosion, (can't remember which) but can't say as I have ever actually seen it.
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Crueby--I don't know how it is for corrosion. My crankshafts always have a film of oil on them, so they don't rust. That stub that I just made the flywheel hub from has sat around my shop for 1 or 2 years and had no corrosion on it. I have heard bad things about either 1144 stress proof or 12L14 steel in terms of corrosion, (can't remember which) but can't say as I have ever actually seen it.
I used 12L14 for some train rims, and it started to form a film of rust within a couple days. Sounds like the 1144 is much better, will pick some up to try next time I order some metal.
Thanks!
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Brian,
I like this flywheel design, simple, elegant.
Art
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Brian........I like the 3d drawings you do.......makes it easy to understand what you're doing.
Jim
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Art and Jim--thank you. I never learned to use a computer until I was 50 years old, and I never ever thought anything could be more beautiful than the pencil and paper drawings I had been making for 32 years. I was wrong. This 3D cad just blows me away. Now I find it difficult to look at a 2D drawing and visualize it in my head.
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Another day--another part. Actually, I worked most of the day at a factory that makes spinforming lathes. I got home and immediately cut the 1/4" aluminum out of a piece of 1/4" aluminum angle. The material in angles isn't really flat like plate, that is why you see some evidence of turning on the face. I will "true it up" after I get farther into the flywheel build. The picture in the chuck was snapped just after I had test fitted the hub before taking the part out of the chuck. It fit without requiring further work, so I took it out of the lathe and snapped a pic of it setting on the engine.
(http://i307.photobucket.com/albums/nn294/BrianRupnow/IMG_0664_zpsycllirwv.jpg) (http://s307.photobucket.com/user/BrianRupnow/media/IMG_0664_zpsycllirwv.jpg.html)
(http://i307.photobucket.com/albums/nn294/BrianRupnow/IMG_0667_zpshugrzdb6.jpg) (http://s307.photobucket.com/user/BrianRupnow/media/IMG_0667_zpshugrzdb6.jpg.html)
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I don't have to show up at the pickle factory until 9:00 so I had time to put in the counterbore for the aluminum web and face one side of my 660 bronze ring this morning. Thru good fortune and lots of measuring I have managed to keep all of my concentric fits nice and tight, so I don't expect much runout on this flywheel when it is all assembled. Tonight I will flip the ring around, hold the bored inner diameter with expanding chuck jaws, and finish machine the outside diameter and clean up the other face.
(http://i307.photobucket.com/albums/nn294/BrianRupnow/IMG_0668_zpsbbubbhao.jpg) (http://s307.photobucket.com/user/BrianRupnow/media/IMG_0668_zpsbbubbhao.jpg.html)
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OH YEAH!!! Nothing says it quite like bronze!!! I really like this, and as I had hoped, it fills out the engine so it doesn't look skinny anymore. Now I have lots and lots of holes to tap and some "lightening" holes to drill in that web. The "lightening holes" don't really do anything. It's just that without them a video doesn't show the engine running all that clearly. There is about 1/8" of clearance between the side of the flywheel and the gastank. You will notice a little bit of brass "jewellry" on the carburetor. Those Traxxas carburetors don't have any spring to hold the throttle in any particular position, so if you start the engine it immediately tries to run at wide open throttle. I have added a small return spring and idle adjustment to this one.
(http://i307.photobucket.com/albums/nn294/BrianRupnow/IMG_0669_zpsgffwudpy.jpg) (http://s307.photobucket.com/user/BrianRupnow/media/IMG_0669_zpsgffwudpy.jpg.html)
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The engine is finished mechanically. The last thing I had to do was cut a keyway in the crankshaft, and that is done and the completed flywheel is mounted. I have to pick up a set of ignition points and a condenser for it (I have an old set of points on it right now that I use for "set-up" purposes). If I don't run into any unforeseen issues, I MIGHT have a runner in the next few days.
(http://i307.photobucket.com/albums/nn294/BrianRupnow/IMG_0671_zps2megnbam.jpg) (http://s307.photobucket.com/user/BrianRupnow/media/IMG_0671_zps2megnbam.jpg.html)
(http://i307.photobucket.com/albums/nn294/BrianRupnow/IMG_0672_zps07hnypty.jpg) (http://s307.photobucket.com/user/BrianRupnow/media/IMG_0672_zps07hnypty.jpg.html)
(http://i307.photobucket.com/albums/nn294/BrianRupnow/IMG_0673_zpsnwppjsoi.jpg) (http://s307.photobucket.com/user/BrianRupnow/media/IMG_0673_zpsnwppjsoi.jpg.html)
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And so, boys and girls, Mr Rupnow must have done something right in a previous life, because the engine started this morning as soon as everything was hooked up. I made a wild grab for my video camera and made a video of the first run, but there was so much movement that a person would have gotten sea-sick trying to watch it. After things calmed down a little bit, I made a second video of the engine running with everything a little calmer. I originally had some brass fittings on the carburetor to control the free swing of the throttle arm, but it didn't work out terribly well so I removed it and just attached an aluminum extension handle to the small throttle lever that came on the purchased Traxxas carb. In this video you will see my low-tech rubber band holding the throttle closed because without it the damned throttle arm wants to swing into the wide open position and my engine revs so high it almost scares me to death. I am extremely pleased with how well this thing runs, and how little screwing around was required to get it running this well. somebody please let me know if the video shows up alright.---Brian Rupnow
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N7_klnlI3Ak
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Congrates Brian!
Well done, bet it was sweet to have it up & running so quick!
Cheers Kerrin
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Well done Brian :whoohoo:
It's sounds really nice
Stew
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Granddaddy always said: ' a blind hog will find an acorn every now and again " Great job Brian
Cletus
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Great job. Runs beautifully.
You made fast work of that one.
Mike
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Congrats Brian,
Another great project with excellent results. While watching you build it I had several thoughts about the exposed belt but now that it's running I have to say that some kind of cover should be installed. One errant finger move could be quite painful.
gbritnell
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Another nice runner Brian. Congratulations on a fine design and build.
Regards,
Rudy
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That is fantastic!
I've got a lawn mower I want to send you, its engine never ran as good as yours!!
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Brian,
What a beautiful looking and running engine you have finished up with, total cudos to you.
Mike
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Runs smooth, no misses. And it just plain sounds tough! You will need to build something for it to run?
Congrats.
Gerrit
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Thank you, gentlemen. This build got me thru the coldest, darkest part of the winter, and overall it went very well, with no do-overs except for the ill fated gas tank. I am always greatly gratified when an engine fires right up and runs first try. When I look back at my first i.c. engine attempts like the Webster and the Kerzel, and all the horrible issues I had with non sealing valves, it makes me give my head a shake. I don't do very much different now than I did five years ago when I first started building i.c. engines, but we must learn by our mistakes, because I seem to have a lot fewer problems now. It's been a fun ride, and I thank all of you who followed along during the build.---Brian
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Brian,
Sounds great :pinkelephant: here's the happy dance for you.
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That's a nice looking and running engine Brian. It's been nice seeing it evolve.
Jim
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Excellent :praise2: :praise2: A very steady runner :ThumbsUp: :ThumbsUp:
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And just to show that I'm not a total barbarian, I dug around in my box of tension springs and found one that will act as a throttle return spring so I can get rid of the rubber band!! It is going to attach to that head bolt nearest to the other end of the spring, but first I have to buy a longer #6 shcs to replace the one that is in there already.
(http://i307.photobucket.com/albums/nn294/BrianRupnow/IMG_0677_zpsnouu4gwm.jpg) (http://s307.photobucket.com/user/BrianRupnow/media/IMG_0677_zpsnouu4gwm.jpg.html)
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:ThumbsUp: :ThumbsUp:
Good one, Brian!
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With the completion of this engine I have now built just about every version of the internal combustion engine. I have built flathead engines, overhead valve engines, overhead cam engines, two cycle engines with no valves, hit and miss engines, and both atmospheric valves and cam operated valves. I know there are more "strange one of" versions of the i.c. engine out there, but I have just about covered all of the popular styles. I have not, and probably will not build a radial i.c. engine, although I have built a 5 cylinder radial "steam engine".
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Just saw the video.
Nicely done! :ThumbsUp:
Great sound and control.
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Brian,
I just thought I'd throw this out to muck up the water a bit, but you missed one type of valve mechanism, Sleeve valve. There's even two types to choose from, single and double. Or by example Bristol Hercules or Knight. :mischief:
Art
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I just thought I'd throw this out to muck up the water a bit, but you missed one type of valve mechanism, Sleeve valve. There's even two types to choose from, single and double. Or by example Bristol Hercules or Knight. :mischief:
There are some simple single cylinder sleeve valve aircraft engines like the Green 'G 30' ;)
Jo
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I will think on the sleeve valve engine. I have never seen one, but I have heard about them.---Brian
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Here is another model sleeve engine: http://www.metallmodellbau.de/Sleeve_Valve_Engine.php
Jo
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Jo--that is pretty impressive. It might be beyond what I am capable of.---Brian
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I thought I'd seen one somewhere :thinking: Barr & Stroud 350cc bike engine.
http://modelenginenews.org/ed.2009.08.html
IIRC they were an OEM engine used by a few bike makers ... Rex-Acme ???
More piccys:
http://www.bing.com/images/search?q=barr+and+stroud+sleeve+valve+engine&qs=n&form=QBILPG&pq=barr+and+stroud+sleeve+valve+engine&sc=0-20&sp=-1&sk=&ghc=1
And this:
http://madmodder.net/index.php/topic,2456.0.html
Dave
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Dave,
That would be Strictly Internal Combustion issues 83-84
http://www.strictlyic.com/ser01.htm (http://www.strictlyic.com/ser01.htm)
Art
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Here is another model sleeve engine: http://www.metallmodellbau.de/Sleeve_Valve_Engine.php
Jo
Does anyone know what happened to the author? Seems to have done a lot of superb work and then stopped.
Gerrit
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We've reached the end of the trail, partner. This engine is done like dinner. The only thing left is a video of it doing a bit of honest work, and I made that about half an hour ago. I have no idea of what I may do next, but it won't be for a while. I love these builds, but when I have finished one, I don't want to machine anything for a little while.----Brian
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A8aKoDtPxc0
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You could have it re-generate your machining batteries :-) You are wise to have some down time, fresh mind and canvas for the next project. I make tools in between parts for my engine to accomplish the same thing.
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Well done Brian!!! It's a runnah!
Dave
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Brian.......I just went back and read the first page of this thread, where it was just something you were thinking about. Kind of the CAD version of doodling on a restaurant napkin. It was amazing to see it be built and come to life. Well done. :ThumbsUp: Looking forward to seeing what tickles your fancy next.
PS: I'm fairly good and getting better at building engines from plans that others have done, but the design work and building that you and others do on this forum, just blows me away.
Jim
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Brian, I think this is one of your sweetest runners. Has a nice even beat to it. Great work!
Chuck
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Chuck said it! A great runner, should be able to pull a good load. I'd like to see you put a load on it to see just how powerful it is.
Nothing fancy, maybe just a cathead, a rope and a weight.... or as Gerrit said, a small generator.
Pete
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Today I'm at home for the first time in a week, as I've hit a temporary roadblock in the development of a spinforming lathe for a customer in Barrie. That's just fine, because I have a little project I want to take care of. The overhead cam engine works fine, but like all air cooled engines, it starts to suffer after about 15 minutes continuous running with no air movement to carry heat away from the cooling fins on the cylinder. I just happen to have a plastic fan 3 1/2" in diameter that I have rescued from something, but the pitch is wrong for my motor. However, the belt tensioner bearing revolves opposite to the crank and camshaft on that side of the engine, and is in a location where the fan would do the most good in terms of directing air flow over the cylinder. Todays exercise will be to find a way to attach the fan to the tensioner bearing so as to provide some cooling for the cylinder.
(http://i307.photobucket.com/albums/nn294/BrianRupnow/FULL%20ASSEMBLY--OVERHEAD%20CAM%20WITH%20FAN_zpsburwi5rx.jpg) (http://s307.photobucket.com/user/BrianRupnow/media/FULL%20ASSEMBLY--OVERHEAD%20CAM%20WITH%20FAN_zpsburwi5rx.jpg.html)
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I see that the old creative streak is still quite active. The spinformer hasn't put a crimp in that!!
Great stuff Brian!!
:popcorn: :popcorn: :cheers:
Pete
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It is very enjoyable to watch from my side of the computer. It gets my creative juices flowing and I want to quit work and go home to the workshop.
Maybe some day.
Keep up the good work
Mike
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So, here's the way it goes---I've had a 1 1/4" diameter length of round 316 stainless kicking around my shop ever since I built the Kerzel about a century ago. First step was to profile the end of it to fit into the recess in the back of the plastic fan. Second thing to do was try the fan on for fit before I tore down my set-up.
(http://i307.photobucket.com/albums/nn294/BrianRupnow/IMG_0679_zpslpd8vrj1.jpg) (http://s307.photobucket.com/user/BrianRupnow/media/IMG_0679_zpslpd8vrj1.jpg.html)
(http://i307.photobucket.com/albums/nn294/BrianRupnow/IMG_0680_zpsqekg8tzl.jpg) (http://s307.photobucket.com/user/BrianRupnow/media/IMG_0680_zpsqekg8tzl.jpg.html)
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Third thing to do was part off the required length (I love parting off under power feed but it scares me right to death.), flip the part around and counterbore the other side for the bearing--very light press fit. Fourth thing to do was use 638 Loctite on the bearing side and two part epoxy on the fan side, and put everything together.
(http://i307.photobucket.com/albums/nn294/BrianRupnow/IMG_0681_zpsvnkgdrxt.jpg) (http://s307.photobucket.com/user/BrianRupnow/media/IMG_0681_zpsvnkgdrxt.jpg.html)
(http://i307.photobucket.com/albums/nn294/BrianRupnow/IMG_0682_zpszvzuhpqv.jpg) (http://s307.photobucket.com/user/BrianRupnow/media/IMG_0682_zpszvzuhpqv.jpg.html)
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Now comes the tricky part---Taking the old belt tensioner bearing off and putting the new bearing/fan/adapter hub in place without letting the belt go slack and jump a tooth on either pulley. This would of course throw the valve timing out of whack, and I got so lucky with the very first time I set it up that I don't want to have to do it again.
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And here we have a rather nasty picture of the finished installation. Black never shows up very well in these digital photos using a flash. Tomorrow I will machine a cool little divot to plug the hole in the center of the fan and try to get a video up. everything works slick when turned by hand.
(http://i307.photobucket.com/albums/nn294/BrianRupnow/IMG_0683_zpsk7vx5lcx.jpg) (http://s307.photobucket.com/user/BrianRupnow/media/IMG_0683_zpsk7vx5lcx.jpg.html)
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I follow the machining forums a lot, and one of the things I take note of is the weird and wonderful set-ups that people use to cut unconventional shapes with their lathes. The brass "dress-up" part on the face of the fan required a set-up that I have never attempted before. As you can see in the picture, it's not just a disc of brass. Rather, it is a shallow cone, like the old Dodge Lancer wheel-discs. There is a 0.300" diameter "spigot" on one side which fits into the hole in the center of the fan. I turned it first, then parted off the 1.5" diameter brass to about 3/16" thick. I flipped the part around in the chuck, then with the lathe running in reverse I used my longest carbide tipped boring tool to reach out and machine the disc from the center outward towards the back of the lathe in successive passes using the top-slide manual advance handle until I had a nice shallow cone formed. I am very impressed how well that method worked. I have epoxied the .300 diameter "spigot" into the hole in the center of the fan, and I think it looks quite "dashing". I will let the epoxy set up for an hour, and then put up a video. I have test ran the engine with the fan in place before I committed myself by epoxying the brass cap in place, and the fan puts out a very respectable breeze.
(http://i307.photobucket.com/albums/nn294/BrianRupnow/IMG_0686_zpsoueqr739.jpg) (http://s307.photobucket.com/user/BrianRupnow/media/IMG_0686_zpsoueqr739.jpg.html)
(http://i307.photobucket.com/albums/nn294/BrianRupnow/IMG_0685_zpshwn2vysm.jpg) (http://s307.photobucket.com/user/BrianRupnow/media/IMG_0685_zpshwn2vysm.jpg.html)
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As promised, here is a video of the engine with cooling fan running.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T3tudwO4NZA
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Brian........that "Hubcap/Fancap" really adds a lot to the look of the engine! Nicely done.
Jim
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Thank you Jim. The fan needed something to dress it up a little, and that worked just fine. That's why I keep all the "short ends" of stock that I have used for something else. I use it up right to the point where there is nothing left to hold onto.---Brian
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The whole job worked out very nicely, Brian! :ThumbsUp: :praise2:
I've enjoyed, again, your engine build and you can bet I will follow along on the next build. Whatever it is!
Pete
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Brilliant Brian, you have this down to a fine art now. It is so stable yet responsive.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
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Very slick Brian. - Nice running project. :)
Nick
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Excellent sound and response Brian.
Cool cooling fan too! ;D
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Thanks guys. I don't think there's anywhere left to go with this engine now. If the weather ever warms up I want to take it out into my main garage for a good long endurance run. I don't have any ideas for further improvement/changes to this engine, so now I'll just have to wait and see what inspiration hits me next.---Brian
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I have recently had a request for a set of the plans for this engine from a gentleman in USA, so have been busy as a Boxing day Beaver this morning converting all of my Solidworks files to .pdf files. In my opinion this is one of my more interesting engines, and as you have seen by the posted video, it is a great performer. If you wish to buy a set of the plans to build this engine, I charge $25.00 Canadian funds for the plans, all saved as pdf files.---Brian
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A gentleman in SOUTH DAKOTA just finished this engine, based on the plans I sent to him. He discovered a few tweaks that were required to the drawings, but he has a runner, and it looks really good. I have updated the drawings to reflect any changes that were required. So--now there are two of these engines in the world. Mine and Jacks. I think this is one of the prettier engines I have designed.---Brian
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A gentleman in South Dakota just finished this engine, based on the plans I sent to him. He discovered a few tweaks that were required to the drawings, but he has a runner, and it looks really good. I have updated the drawings to reflect any changes that were required. So--now there are two of these engines in the world. Mine and Jacks. I think this is one of the prettier engines I have designed.---Brian
And a video of it running
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OC3Udla2sIE